Futility Closet - 213-Grover Cleveland's Secret Surgery

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Futility Closet podcast, forgotten stories from the pages of history. Visit us online to sample more than 10,000 quirky curiosities from involuntary plagiarism to a desperate parrot. This is episode 213. I'm Greg Ross. And I'm Sharon Ross. In 1893, Grover Cleveland discovered a cancerous tumor on the roof of his mouth. It was feared that public knowledge of the president's illness might set off a financial panic,

Starting point is 00:00:35 so Cleveland suggested a daring plan, a secret surgery aboard a moving yacht. In today's show, we'll describe the president's gamble and the courageous reporter who threatened to expose it. We'll also audit some wallabies and puzzle over some welcome neo-Nazis. On May 5, 1893, shortly after the start of his second term as president, Grover Cleveland noticed a rough spot on the roof of his mouth near the molars on the left side, his cigar-chewing side. He was 56 years old. By mid-June, it was so large that he was deeply worried. His wife, Frances, said it often caused him to walk the floor at night. When she inspected it, she saw a peculiar lesion about the size of a

Starting point is 00:01:21 quarter dollar. They summoned their family physician, Joseph Bryant, who happened to specialize in oral tumors. He examined the president's mouth and said, it is a bad-looking tenant. Were it in my mouth, I would have it removed at once. They scraped a specimen and sent it to the Army lab, which reported that it was cancer. Today, the diagnosis would be varicose carcinoma of the palate. Bryant said it was fortunate that it had been discovered early. It could be removed surgically, but the procedure would be risky. Three years earlier, Bryant had published a paper on the removal of oral tumors in which he reported that the mortality rate was 14%. This happened at the worst possible moment because America was in the midst of a serious

Starting point is 00:01:58 economic depression. Unemployment was high, export volume was shrinking, and 500 banks had failed. World confidence in the American economy was low, and strong leadership was needed. Cleveland wanted to repeal the Sherman Silver Purchase Act of 1890, which backed the American currency with both gold and silver, but politicians and economists were divided on the issue. In the midst of this crisis, if it came to light that the president had a serious illness, Wall Street might panic outright. That afternoon and evening, Cleveland and Bryant discussed the matter with a small circle of advisors. Cleveland insisted that his condition must be kept entirely secret. He told Bryant,

Starting point is 00:02:33 if a rumor gets around that I'm dying, the country is dead too. Bryant wanted to operate immediately, but Cleveland said he needed time to get things in order. They agreed that the operation would take place on Saturday, July 1st. That raised the question of where to do it. They couldn't go to a hospital. The risk of leaks was too great. The president had a summer home in Massachusetts, but there were too many reporters snooping around there. Finally, Cleveland suggested the Oneida, a luxury yacht that was owned by Elias Benedict, a close friend of his. Cleveland had spent many hours on the yacht, fishing in Long Island Sound and off Cape Cod, so his presence there wouldn't look suspicious. The surgical team and equipment could be put aboard quietly in advance, and the operation could take place in the yacht's parlor as they sailed

Starting point is 00:03:13 from New York to Massachusetts. It would look like the president was simply sailing to his summer home. They agreed that Bryant would go to New York to assemble the surgical team. Dan Lamont, Cleveland's friend and now Secretary of War, would help with the preparations from Washington, and Robert O'Reilly, the White House physician, would monitor the president until the operation could take place. As the day approached, Cleveland went about his duties, but he was visibly anxious. One senator recalled, Mr. Cleveland seemed very much worried and was continually talking about his physical condition and expressing great concern. He avoided visitors and kept to himself as though he were weary or apprehensive. Bryant assembled a team of six doctors. He himself would be the lead surgeon, and he'd have two assistants, including William Keene, head of surgery at

Starting point is 00:03:54 Jefferson Medical College. Other doctors would handle anesthesia and tooth extractions and monitor the president's vital signs. All of them were sworn to secrecy. The Oneida was anchored in the East River, and its parlor was emptied and disinfected. In the center of the room, a large chair was lashed to the mast. The president would sit there for the operation. There'd be no operating table. The only artificial light would be a single light bulb attached to a portable battery. The crew were told only that the president was having two badly ulcerated teeth removed. On June 30, 1893, Cleveland signed a proclamation that summoned a special session of Congress to consider repealing the Silver Purchase Act. Then he took a train to

Starting point is 00:04:30 New York where he, Lamont, and Bryant boarded the yacht. Already aboard were the five other doctors, who had been ferried in from five different piers. The following morning, they started steaming up the East River at half speed as Cleveland and his regular retinue sat on the deck chatting. The doctors hid in the cabin, particularly as they passed Bellevue Hospital, since the staff there might recognize them. Together they sailed into Long Island Sound and disappeared. Independence Day passed while Cleveland's whereabouts were unknown. He was gone for five days. The weather on the Sound was perfect, and the water was blessedly calm. In the parlor, Cleveland got into the chair.

Starting point is 00:05:09 Keene offered a prayer, and at 12.32 they put a mask to Cleveland's face and began administering nitrous oxide. Keene wrote later, Never did I feel such a deep, almost overwhelming sense of responsibility as during that operation. In itself, it was as nothing compared with many others I have done of greater difficulty and danger, but in its possible consequences for good or evil, none I ever was involved in could compare with it. After nearly 90 minutes, at 1.55 p.m., it was over. They'd removed five teeth, about a third of the president's upper palate, and a large piece of his upper left jawbone. They'd been able to perform the whole surgery through the president's mouth. As a result, there was no external evidence of an operation. They were able to do that only because Keene had an instrument called a cheek retractor, which he'd happened to buy in Paris in 1865, doubting he'd find much use for it. That instrument is now standard equipment.

Starting point is 00:05:55 Cleveland began to regain consciousness at 2.25 p.m. He complained of pain, and they gave him a shot of morphine and put him in his cabin. Keene wrote, What a sigh of intense relief we surgeons breath in his cabin. Keene wrote, The president wasn't out of danger. They'd had to give him ether, which might aggravate his chronic kidney condition or cause side effects. Also, he might contract blood poisoning or get a localized infection. Time would tell. But overall, the operation had been a success. Cleveland's eyeball hadn't been affected, which meant there would be no visible changes in his features. They still needed to fit him with a prosthesis to replace the flesh they'd removed, but once he mastered that, if everyone kept the secret, the public need never know that any of this had happened. On July 4th, Independence Day,

Starting point is 00:06:37 the reporters at the president's summer home, Gray Gables, started to grow curious. No one seemed to know where Cleveland was, and the yacht normally took only about 15 hours to make the journey from Washington. With nothing to go on, the reporters speculated that fog on the river had delayed the president's arrival. Late on the night of July 4th, the troop of doctors were quietly put ashore on the eastern end of Long Island. The yacht finally reached Gray Gables on the night of July 5th, more than four days after leaving New York, and Cleveland went quietly into the house. The reporters were irate when they learned that he'd arrived without their knowledge, but Lamont told them they'd arrived late merely because they'd stopped in the sound to fish. There was already a rumor among doctors in New York that Cleveland had had a tumor removed

Starting point is 00:07:17 from his mouth, and some sensational papers had even published this. At Gray Gables, one intrepid reporter cornered Lamont and asked him about an operation to remove a malignant or cancerous growth in the president's mouth, and when Lamont refused to deny the rumors outright, more than 50 reporters descended on the House. Lamont told him that Cleveland was suffering from rheumatism in his legs and that he'd had some dental work done, but that was all. For the time being, the reporters agreed to give him the benefit of the doubt. On July 8th, the Attorney General, Richard Olney, visited to help Cleveland prepare his message about the repeal of the Silver Purchase Act. He had known nothing about Cleveland's condition and was shocked at what he saw. The president had lost a great deal of weight and told him, my God, Olney, they nearly killed me.

Starting point is 00:07:56 Olney ended up having to write most of the statement himself, and now he would have to lie as well about the president's condition. He wasn't alone. John Erdman, one of the assistants in the operation, later said, I did more lying during this period than in all the rest of my life put together. But time showed that Cleveland's kidneys were okay and that there was no infection. By the 13th, the president had practically resumed his normal routine, fishing, visiting friends, and entertaining guests. Reporters began to drift away. By the middle of July, Cleveland had been fitted with a rubber prosthesis that plugged the hole in his mouth and restored his normal speaking voice.

Starting point is 00:08:28 On July 15th, Bryant examined Cleveland and found a new growth that had appeared at the margin of the wound in his mouth. So, out of caution, the surgical team reconvened for a second operation aboard the Oneida. The doctors boarded the yacht at its owner's home and then sailed to Gray Gables, where they picked up the president. Reporters were told that Cleveland was going on a two-day fishing excursion. After the new growth was removed, the doctors were put ashore at Newport by night, and Cleveland returned to Gray Gables. On August 4th, Cleveland left his summer home

Starting point is 00:08:56 to return to Washington. A week later, a bill to repeal the Silver Purchase Act was introduced in the House, and on August 28th, it passed and headed to the Senate. It looked as though everything had worked out. Cleveland's tumor had been removed, a financial calamity had been averted, and no one was the wiser. But then came a bombshell. On the very next day, the Philadelphia Press reported the cancer operation. The story was written by a reporter named Elisha J. Edwards, and he learned about it only by chance. The anesthetist at Cleveland's first operation, Ferdinand Hasbrook, was late to his next appointment. In order to placate that doctor, he explained that he'd been participating in an operation to remove a cancerous tumor from the president's mouth. That doctor had told another doctor named Leander Jones, who happened to be a

Starting point is 00:09:38 friend of Edwards. If not for this chance, it seems likely that the secret would never have got out. Cleveland had a reputation for honesty, and the Washington press corps had generally agreed to accept the story that he'd merely been fishing. By revealing the truth, Edwards knew he would plunge the administration and the nation into a major scandal. He'd also be risking his own reputation because the administration would be determined to kill the story. He visited Hasbrook, the anesthetist, early the next day, and Hasbrook admitted it was true. visited Hasbrook, the anesthetist, early the next day, and Hasbrook admitted it was true. He thought there was no point in denying it any longer, so he told Edwards everything, and he said that the doctors were confident that the president would recover fully.

Starting point is 00:10:15 In his story, Edwards made every effort to portray Cleveland as honorable and reassured readers that the president was in no immediate danger. Everyone describes the story as incredibly accurate. The quality of Edwards' reporting impressed even some of the White House principals who were trying to cover it up, though of course they couldn't say so. Other papers picked up the story, and by the following day it was on front pages across the country. The White House hit back hard with many outright lies, both from the administration and from the friends they enlisted, including some in the newspaper business. The editor of the Philadelphia Public Ledger wrote an open letter to other newspapers flatly denying any operation, and the Philadelphia Times emphasized minor inconsistencies between Edwards' story and the anesthetist's, trying to discredit both of them. A recent biographer calls the cover-up arguably the greatest instance of stonewalling in pre-Watergate American presidential history. Edwards was called a panic-monger,

Starting point is 00:10:59 a calamity howler, a famous falsifier, and a disgrace to journalism who had committed crimes against public tranquility. One editorial said, this sort of misreporting is the very depth of despicable journalism. William Keene, the surgeon, never forgave himself for allowing this, but he couldn't come forward. Beyond a constant stream of denials, the White House began to stage demonstrations of the president's health. Cleveland started attending plays and hosting receptions, and the media reported that he looked healthy and unimpaired. As a result, public opinion swung against Edwards. Matthew Algeo, who's written a book about all this, says, ironically, Cleveland's reputation for integrity actually made it easier for him to pull off one of the great deceptions in American political history.

Starting point is 00:11:38 The outcry effectively ruined Edwards' career. He bore it like a gentleman, but for the next 15 years he could barely find work. In some ways, Grover Cleveland never fully recovered from the operation. He grew thin, tired easily, and complained of a constant earache. His temper grew worse, and he made decisions more rashly. He never considered running for a third term, both because that was unprecedented at the time and because he'd lost 60 pounds and thought he might never recover from what he called the mental twist and wrench of his second term. Elisha Edwards never blamed Cleveland for the harsh treatment he received. He struggled on in his journalism career, eventually joining the Wall Street Journal.

Starting point is 00:12:16 When Grover Cleveland died in 1908, the Oneida operation was still a secret. Eight years later, when most of the participants had passed away, William Keene, the surgeon who had assisted in the operation, decided to publish a full account of what had happened. He was 79 years old, and most of the other participants were dead. He wrote, I felt it a duty to make the facts a matter of public record before all of us had passed away. He said he also felt a duty to Edwards to finally clear his name. He researched the story for a year, consulting the notes of the other doctors, reviewing newspaper archives, and studying biographies of Cleveland. He interviewed the owner of the yacht and the dentist who had made the prosthesis. And he corresponded with Edwards, who told him for the first time about the slender thread of

Starting point is 00:12:51 gossip that had led him to the story. He said, it was by pure chance that it was given to me. I will say that there was no financial or political motive behind it. Had there been, I should not have written the story. Keene's article was published in the Saturday Evening Post on September 22, 1917. It made an immediate stir among journalists, who sent congratulatory letters and telegrams to Elisha Edwards, who is now 70 years old. Keen wrote, One satisfaction in publishing this article is that it enables me to vindicate Mr. Edwards' character as a truthful newspaper correspondent. His veracity was violently assailed. Faker and calamity liar were among the obnoxious epithets applied to him.

Starting point is 00:13:26 After suffering in silence for 24 years, his vindication is now complete. Edwards wrote to Keene, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate what you wrote of my relation to the operation. It appears the two men never actually met, though. Edwards died in 1924 and Keene in 1932. It may seem that it would be impossible for such a risky deception to succeed today, but Matthew Algeo says it's actually easier than you'd think. He says apparently there is a fully equipped operating room on Air Force One, so if a president did want to disappear for a little

Starting point is 00:13:55 bit and have an operation, it actually might be easier to do today than it was in 1893. I have a few wallaby updates today, which is not a sentence that I had ever pictured myself saying before. In episode 207, Mike Kane told us about some feral wallabies on the Isle of Man, and he recently wrote, Further to wallabies in the Isle of Man follow-up, a few have been spotted recently in the village where I live. Looks like they're coming into towns on the east coast. And Mike included a link to a Facebook post about sightings of wallabies in Uncan, including some videos to back this up. Uncan is the second largest population settlement on the Isle of Man with a population of about 9,000

Starting point is 00:14:47 and is part of the continuous urbanized area with Douglas, the largest population center with about 28,000 people. So it was kind of weird to see videos of wallabies on streets and in front of shops, but I guess this is another example of animals adapting to more urbanized environments. The post was on a Facebook group for people living in the Onkin area, and several people commented that they or someone they knew had seen a wallaby. One of the commenters said that she had thought she was seeing a kangaroo, but as far as I know, there are not yet any kangaroos on the Isle of Man.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Another place that has had what might be a confused kangaroo sighting is Montana. Zach Quiroz, who apparently has a frequently butchered last name but provided some lovely pronunciation help, wrote to say, Hello, Sasha, Sharon, and Greg. I've been a longtime listener of the podcast. I work at a clothing store that doesn't get very many visitors in the evening, so your dulcet tones have kept me company while folding countless stacks of shirts and pants. I just got done listening to episode 207 and the odd story about wild wallabies living on the Isle of Man. This reminded me of a news story that circulated in my home state of Montana a few weeks ago, in which a kangaroo caused a car accident. few weeks ago, in which a kangaroo caused a car accident. According to KTVQ in Billings,

Starting point is 00:16:12 two women were involved in an automobile accident west of Dodson, Montana, after the driver swerved to avoid a kangaroo in the middle of the road. And no, kangaroos are not native to the Rocky Mountain region. The two women were admitted to the local hospital, and while their claims were initially dismissed as shock, a Montana Highway Patrol trooper investigated the crash scene and noted a kangaroo in a ditch about 40 yards away. The trooper was told there was a kangaroo farm in the area, but he was unable to locate it, which is rather alarming. They have not been able to locate the runaway marsupial, but reports do state that the kangaroo and the two women appear to be unharmed. As always, keep up the great work. I always look forward to learning something new as I do more mundane tasks. And Zach helpfully sent a link to a local news story about the kangaroo-induced crash.

Starting point is 00:16:58 As Zach said, both the state trooper and the hospital's nurses apparently laughed at the women's story about swerving to avoid a kangaroo, until the trooper saw for himself what appeared to be a kangaroo near the crash scene. The KTVQ video of the news story rather alarmingly stated in a large bullet point, Kangaroo still on the loose. However, I did some more digging and found some other news stories suggesting that the animal might actually have been a wallaby, maybe escaped from a petting zoo. According to a news article in the Billings Gazette, an employee of Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks stated that it is actually illegal to own kangaroos in Montana, although wallabies are okay. However, I wasn't able to confirm this when

Starting point is 00:17:41 I tried looking into why kangaroos would be prohibited in Montana and discovered that kangaroos are not listed on the prohibited species page of the official state website for the Montana government. So it all remains a bit up in the air as to what it was that the women and the trooper saw and where it is now and whether or not it's illegal. So if any of our Montana listeners hear any more on the mystery marsupial, please let us know. As for wallabies in other parts of the U.S., Thomas J. Brown, whose name is pronounced exactly how you think it is, but who also sent me some very helpful pronunciation tips for the places he mentions, wrote, Hello podcatsters! I grew up in Honolulu, where I often heard rumors of a mob of feral

Starting point is 00:18:26 wallabies living in Kalihi Valley. I lived in Honolulu for the first 18 years of my life, but never saw the wallabies. Some friends who lived in the area said they had seen some of the furry creatures on a few occasions, but even then sightings were rare. It seems the wallabies escaped from a private zoo in 1916, became widespread inhabitants of the island, and then eventually dwindled to a population of roughly 40, all located in a single valley. And Thomas helpfully sent an article about the wallabies, as well as a very comprehensive message from his cat Kisa to Sasha. According to the news article from Hawaii News Now, retired state wildlife manager Ron Walker studied the Kalihi Valley wallabies for years. And though there hasn't been a documented sighting since 1990, he remains convinced that they're still there.

Starting point is 00:19:14 If they are there, they're on private property that's not easy for the public to access. So it seems unlikely that Walker's faith in the animal's existence will be able to be confirmed. But it was interesting to learn that at least at one time, Hawaii was home to quite a number of wallabies. They must be very adaptable, because these are very different climates. Yeah, that's true too. Montana and Hawaii. Although there are several species of them,

Starting point is 00:19:35 and I guess that gives them certain variability. You know, the area that they're from has a certain variability of climate, too. But yeah, the Isle of Man and Hawaii are a little different. If they're still there, that's about 100 years. Yeah. Daniel Morris, currently from Sydney but formerly of Auckland, New Zealand, wrote after episode 207, Hi, guys. Love the podcast. It always gives me something to look forward to on a Monday. Was great to hear Sasha for the first time in a while. She was just audible meowing before she

Starting point is 00:20:10 was marking the microphone. Just a quick note on the info you shared about the wallabies on the Isle of Man. During the segment, you said that wallabies are found in New Zealand. However, the only wild population of wallabies in New Zealand is also feral, having been released on an island as part of the owner's private zoo. New Zealand's only native mammals are three bats and a few marine mammals. This has led to an amazingly diverse range of birds that have evolved to fill the roles that mammals would occupy in other ecosystems. Thanks again for the awesome work. And New Zealand's Department of Conservation quite agrees with Daniel that New Zealand's only native mammals are bats and marine mammals, although apparently it is considered to be

Starting point is 00:20:50 the songbird capital of the world. Oh, that's nice. Around 1870, Sir George Grey, the governor of New Zealand, introduced a variety of animals on Kauahu Island, which he had purchased in 1862, and this included six species of wallabies, four of which thrived on the island to the severe detriment of its natural ecosystem. As we've mentioned before, all kinds of problems can follow the introduction of a non-native species into a new area. And actually, many of the other species that Gray had introduced failed to survive mainly due to a lack of vegetation caused by the multiplying wallabies. The wallabies have continued to have a negative impact on local ecosystems, and the Department

Starting point is 00:21:31 of Conservation has been working, mostly futilely, for over a century to control or eradicate the wallabies. Interestingly, while the critters are considered to be a definite pest in New Zealand, two of the species are threatened in Australia, so there are some current efforts to repatriate some of the animals back to Australia, which seems like it could be a win-win situation if that works out. In some of the other non-native habitats of the wallabies, such as on the Isle of Man, I have seen a little concern about whether the animals might start causing problems, but so far it seems that their populations haven't gotten large enough to induce the local governments to take any action against them. Though as the Manx wallaby population

Starting point is 00:22:10 does seem to be increasing, and obviously the animals are moving into new areas on the island, possibly that is just a matter of time. Maybe Australia will want some of them back too. And on a completely non-wallaby note, Ruth Timmons wrote with a possible warning about some side effects of listening to too much Futility Closet. Hi all, I have been listening to the podcast and have just caught all the way up. The other night I was out to dinner with my sister and her family when I got a message on my phone. I read it then mentioned to my sister that a friend was hearing explosions in her neighborhood. My seven-year-old niece asked, does where she live matter at all? That's when I realized I may have been obsessing about lateral thinking puzzles a little bit.

Starting point is 00:22:54 In my defense, I hadn't actually posed one that evening. So kudos to Ruth's niece for asking such a great question at seven. We're getting a whole new generation of lateral thinking puzzle solvers. Yeah. Thanks so much to everyone who writes in to us. We really appreciate your updates, comments, and feedback. If you have any that you'd like to share with us podcasters, you can send them to us at podcast at futilitycloset.com. send them to us at podcast at futilitycloset.com. It's Greg's turn to try to solve a lateral thinking puzzle. I'm going to give him an interesting sounding situation, and he has

Starting point is 00:23:34 to figure out what is going on, asking only yes or no questions. The small German town of Wunzidl has been the scene of a yearly neo-Nazi march for more than 20 years. The town has been unhappy about this practice but was unable to stop it. However, in 2014, the townspeople welcomed in the marchers, cheered them along their route, put up signs and banners encouraging them to keep marching, and even handed out free bananas to the marchers to help them march farther. Why? That's a great puzzle. This is all true? Yes. Okay. God, where do you

Starting point is 00:24:08 start with something like that? How do you ask this? Had the purpose of the march changed in that interval? You know what I mean? Did the march fundamentally mean something different? To whom? To the marchers mean something different? To whom? To the marchers. To anyone. To the crowd. Possibly to the crowd, depending on how you mean your question, but not to the marchers. I suppose what I'm asking is, was the cheering genuine? Did they really approve of the neo-Nazi march?

Starting point is 00:24:41 The cheering was genuine. They did not approve of the neo-nazi march you asked two questions in there in china clearly answer both okay so they weren't endorsing neo-nazism correct in cheering correct were they cheering because this was the last instance of the march and it was gonna stop no um were they cheering the parade the marchers not a parade um sort of okay let's all right there's a neo-nazi march that goes on every yes and it means the same thing it's yes to the marchers to the marchers yes and and the villagers the people who live there understand that. Yes. So in cheering in, was it 2014?

Starting point is 00:25:29 Yes. They're not endorsing those principles. Right. And they're not cheering the end of the march. Right. They're cheering something else. Sort of. Are there more marchers?

Starting point is 00:25:44 Is there another march? No. Would the marchers have been puzzled or surprised to hear the cheers? Yes. Are the bananas significant? No, it's just an example of how they were trying to really encourage them, like they were giving out bananas so that they could

Starting point is 00:26:01 keep marching. Does it have anything to do with the logistics like the route or the no not exactly no they're not trying to get them just march out of the town by giving them bananas march to the next town okay so they're they're they're okay they're cheering something yes they're cheering something connected with the march as opposed to something else yes i think the closest you come is when you asked the meaning of this change for the townspeople. And you said yes. Sort of.

Starting point is 00:26:30 Sort of. In a way. Can I say that would this have happened if the march had been identical, like the actual people who participated? And from the march's perspective, everything was exactly the same between 2013 and 2014. Would this still have happened? So I'm asking, did something about the marchers' perspective, everything was exactly the same between 2013 and 2014. Would this still have happened? So I'm asking, did something about the march change? Something connected with the march. There was something different in 2014, but it didn't have to do with the marchers.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Okay. Something politically, something beyond the actual town? Not beyond the actual town. Something within the town? Yes. Changed? Yes. They set up something before the marchers showed up i can't quite think how to say this but the townspeople who knew the marchers were coming of course because they come every year prepared something would you say yeah

Starting point is 00:27:20 i'd say something along those lines to To make the marchers look foolish? To make this a crime? Partly. No, not to make it a crime. Partly to make them look foolish? Partly, but... So it's sort of the context or the background to make it have a different significance? Yes, yes, yes. Okay.

Starting point is 00:27:43 That's definitely on the right track. But you say the march itself could have gone by the same route and yes. Okay. That's definitely on the right track. But you say the march itself could have gone by the same route and everything. Yes. Actually, I think they had a good idea. They knew the route that the march was going to go on because it was the same every year. I like this puzzle a lot, but I'm not getting anywhere. Yes, but the townspeople found a way to put something in place in advance that was going to make them want the marchers to keep marching and cheer on the marchers because it was going to have a different meaning.

Starting point is 00:28:09 Would this have happened if it were like a simple demonstration or a rally or speech or something as opposed to a march? Well, they set it up to work for the march specifically. Right, but I'm just getting at whether, does it, the fact that it actually moves through the town, does that have any significance? Yeah, for what they put into place, yes. Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 00:28:28 Okay, so they're moving through a town. Yes. Do they arrive somewhere that's important now? No. Do they pass through some location that gives it some significance? No, it was just the fact of the moving and the distance that they go, which is why they were cheering them to go farther and finish the whole route. Does that have to do with the boundaries,

Starting point is 00:28:46 the border of the town? No. Anything like that? No. The townspeople found a way to put something into place that was going to sort of subvert the meaning of the march and make it almost have the opposite outcome of what the marchers were hoping for.

Starting point is 00:29:00 Well, I have that much, but it's hard to imagine what that would be. Is it sort of self-satire then? They're put into some situation where it just makes a mockery of what they're doing in a way partly but it was it was more specific than that they okay is it a march outdoors yes along a public street of some kind yes um and is that ever is that what they're changing i don't even know what i'm asking you no the route nothing about the scenery nothing about the route of the march changed at all it was the route that they expected it to be and the one that had been taken in earlier years yes

Starting point is 00:29:35 and the content uh the the identities of the marchers and of the crowd we could assume maybe are exactly the same as they've been in prior years sure they just um they got people in advance to pledge something based on how far the marchers were going to walk oh i see so it was sort of a pool or something to or wagers i guess based on how far they were going to get? No. They were raising money based on how far they went. Yes. The town's residents and business owners were donating 10 euros for every meter that the marchers walked, and it was going to go to a charity that helps people leave extremist groups.

Starting point is 00:30:19 So the further they walked, the more money they were raising for their charity. That's clever. It actually has an anti-extremist group, AIN. So the town raised 10,000 euros or almost $12,000 from the march, and many called it an involuntary walk-a-thon. I wasn't able to find out, though, whether the tactic actually stopped the neo-Nazis from returning to Wunsiedel in the following years. So if anyone knows that, maybe they can fill us in. That's a good question. Thanks to everyone who sends in puzzles to us. We are always looking for more puzzles. So if you have one you'd like us to try, please send it to podcast at futilitycloset.com.

Starting point is 00:30:57 Futility Closet really relies on the support of our listeners. If you would like to become one of our wonderful patrons who help support the show and get bonus materials such as extra discussions on some of the stories, more lateral thinking puzzles, peeks behind the scenes, and updates on Sasha, our eminent feline mascot, then check out our Patreon page at patreon.com slash futilitycloset or see the link at our website at futilitycloset.com. at our website at futilitycloset.com. At our website, you'll also find over 10,000 quirky curiosities, the Futility Closet store, information about the Futility Closet books, and the show notes for the podcast with links and references for today's topics.

Starting point is 00:31:35 If you have any questions or comments, you can email any of the three of us at podcast at futilitycloset.com. All of our music was written and performed by the illustrious Doug Ross. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.

Futility Closet - 213-Grover Cleveland's Secret Surgery

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