Games with Names - 1998 AFC Divisional Round with Keyshawn Johnson | Jaguars vs. Jets

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Keyshawn Johnson is in studio! The legendary wide out is with us to chop it up about his incredible playoff debut. Keyshawn joins us on the couch (2:15). We go back to January of 1999 (16:08). We break down the teams (51:08). We dive back into the game (1:04:37). We score it (1:33:08). We do some NFL contract talk in this week's Chill Zone presented by Coors Light (1:37:35). Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field. But tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrer's known as the Wicked Lady, who terrorized England in the mid 1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia.

Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A crime makes headlines. People talk about it for a few days, then it disappears. But for the people left behind, their story is just beginning. But at night, we hear the garage opening and my son hears it, we freak out. Honestly, I didn't tell my son this, but I felt that was it. From the exactly right network, this is The Knife. Real stories of crimes ripple effects told by those who lived them new episodes every Thursday. Listen to the knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. How is Tyler playing against him? He's physical, huh?

He was physical, but I was a physical receiver. Yeah, you're a big guy. New England fans hated me because I didn't do nothing but talk shit. And I used to murder New England. I used to murder them. That was the worst thing they could ever see coming through the building. No, real talk. Google it. I caught Teddy Boruski one time. Oh, shit. Right at the goal line.

Down in the ground, slammed down. He shot, pop out, touchdown, free-beaten against the Patriots. Thank you. Oh, shit. We went up to Fox will beat this peak here on here Yeah, we beat them bad. Welcome to games with names. I'm Julian Edelman They're Jack and Kyler and we are on the mission to finding the greatest game of all time on today's episode we are covering the 1998 episode we are covering the 1998 AFC Divisional Round Game between the

Jaguars and the Jets with former number one overall pick, longtime broadcaster and one of the few New York Jets to join this show, Keeshawn Johnson. And we get into talking. Being a pro athlete in New York after the games, all good in clubs and party. And it was just a crazy thing, man. What it's like to work with Paul Pierce. You know, I'm going all in. I'm going Celtic pride. I'm going all in. And his best Bill Parcell and

Bill Belichick stories played with both. I don't know if you're 235. Look, I got walnuts in your cheeks. Bill Parcell and Bill Belichick's stories played with both. I don't know if you're 235, look like you got walnuts in your cheeks. That's my guy, you know? And then we do some NFL contract talk. Contract talk, Brock Purdy, contract talk. In this week's Chill Zone presented by Coors Light. You got to stick around till the very end.

Games with names of production of I Heart Radio. January 10th, 1999, Giant Stadium, the Meadowlands, New Jersey. With 20 seconds left, the Jags trail the Jets 34-24. They need a miracle. Burnell lets it fly. But the ball is intercepted by Keyshawn Johnson. This is the madness at the Meadowlands. All right, huh? Welcome to Games with Names. We have a special guest today to go over the 1998

AFC divisional round game between the Jacksonville Jaguars and those New York Jets with legendary number one pick, those New York Jets with legendary number one pick, USC alum, Keeshawn Johnson. Keeshawn in one sentence, why this game? First of all, what's up, thanks for having me here. Hey. Let's start there. Why pick this game as the game?

First playoff game. Boy, did he leave an impact. Big time. What were the stats? Do it all, game. 120, nine catches. Nine touchdowns. game as the game first playoff game boy what did he leave an impact big time what were the stats do it all 120 night touchdown two touchdowns interception fumble recovery fumble recovery let me let me make sure we get it right so we can put some shine on this nine catches 121 yards 10 rush yards two touchdowns should have been three calling down the one on one that was BS an interception in a fumble recovery I got called down on the one on one that was BS. An interception and a fumble recovery. I got called down on the one?

Yeah, it was one in the second quarter. On that pop. Chris Martin punched it. It was like a seam throw or some sort in the red area. And I fell down? Nah, you got tackled on the one. Like you went up for the ball and like. I don't even remember.

See, that's when you know. Now that you told me that next time I talk about this game, I said, I'm gonna let him know, I said, I should have had three touchdowns. I should have had three. Damn, I should have had three. Should have had three. I didn't even, yeah, so, yeah, I didn't know that.

I don't remember, because I really literally have never watched a game. I mean, I don't even remember watching it back to get ready for the AFC Championship game. I don't remember watching the game. I mean, I see the highlights of the game, but not the full game. You didn't see watching the game. I mean I see the highlights of the game, but not the full game You didn't see them very much

I'm just kind of trying to correlate probably Divisional round you take all the bad from it and you move on and you're already thinking about yeah, you know That was my this was my first playoff game But you know, I knew I could play I'm not even worried about it I don't know that's the least of my worry, but when you, I knew I could play. I'm not even worried about it. I don't know. That's the least of my worry, but when you don't have a quarterback, sometimes things don't go the way you need to.

But I had the hot hottest quarterback in the national football league that year was Vinny Testaverde who came in. I think it was four games into the season. After we benched Glenn Foley, we brought in Vinny. Vinny didn't even play the entire season. And, um, yeah, I just, I don't know, I just treated it like a normal game, but that's, you know, that was just the way I always was.

And it just happened to be my first playoff game. He showed up big. Is this the greatest game of all time? For me or for in general? Superbowl is. Are you talking about the game itself? This game. Is this the greatest game of all time?

Football? Game. Yeah, but what does that mean though? You're not giving me, give me some context. We ask everyone, is this the greatest game? Game of football or the game that I played in? We are on a mission to finding the greatest game in history.

This is it, football. This is it, right here. That's right, baby. Let's get into it. Right here. That's right baby. Let's get into it. So you work. It's only a few people though, Jews, that can do this. Not many. I don't think anyone has done that. No, I'm talking about playing a game. I'm talking about playing a game of football. It's only a few people that want to do it. Because it's not easy. It's not. It's not easy at all. People don't understand that. No, they think it is. They think it is. at all people don't understand. No, they think it is They think it is like they don't understand. It's like now you don't get it. They don't get the funnest part is playing the game

They don't understand the preparation the practice how hard that is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah the practice practice was hard Preparation wasn't as hard as the practice for me preparation was easy Yeah, but because I took all the scout team reps and my first team reps, it was, you know, I was playing maybe three games in a week. Yeah. So. And that's why you were prepared for your first playoff game.

I'm sure. And he balled out. That's right, baby. Balled out. What's life looking like these days, Keyshawn? Just working, man. Working at Fox after 18 years at ESPN, I'm over at FS1 and Fox family and enjoying it.

Been there now. This is going to be going on my third year in September. So I'm just ready to go, fired up, ready to just do my damn thing. Take Central. Just take Central by Keyshawn, huh? Why not? Why not? So what's the difference between Fox and ESPN? Give me some lowdown. You know, I was at CBS, now I'm at Fox. No, the difference is one, you had a little, your mom and pop operation at Fox. Yeah. I see everybody. That's

the big, big boys, upstairs people. I see them every day. Where at ESPN. Suits, lot of suits. Lot of suits, but at ESPN, such a massive deal, you might see the suits once every blue moon. I mean, it's just the reality of it. And I may run into certain talent once every blue moon, where at Fox I'm seeing the same people all the time, all the time, all the time. It's just a different operation, really corporate.

Here, you get to be yourself, you get to do your thing, you get to just, it's just, they let you do you. Where ESPN is Disney. So everything is safe, super safe. It's just overall just a better suit for me right now in my career where I'm at at Fox, then let's say ESPN, the traveling back and forward, you know, I was there 18 years.

And so my first 10 years I did NFL Sunday and Monday night countdown was the number one show in all the pregame shows. Did it for 10 years with Boomer and TJ and Chris Carter and Mike Dicke. And then I left it and then I started doing the radio here locally. Then at the same time, simultaneously, I was doing NFL Live and Sports Center and all that.

And then I switched during the height of the pandemic to going and doing the national radio and first take in NFL Live. But I had to move to the East Coast in New York for like a year and a half because they wanted me to do it. And I'm like, nah, I don't wanna do it. Nah, I don't wanna do it. No, nah, I don't wanna do it.

No, I don't. Yeah, I think we might wanna do that. But then we decided to do it. Then my kids get back there and within a year, they're like, we're gonna go home. So then I can move them back. And then I just two weeks there, two weeks here, two weeks there, two weeks here.

And then eventually they decided, hey man, two weeks here, two weeks there, two weeks here. And then eventually they decided, hey man, we giving you all this money. We need some of that back for tax purposes. So at the time that they let me go in 2023, they cleaned about, I think it was like $5 billion on their books. They wiped out Disney. So anybody had contracts, they just ate the contracts

and wrote them off that year, fiscal year, but they had to pay. So they wind up cashing you out and you know, go ahead if you wanna work, you can work. If you don't, sit on your buns, whatever you wanna do. And Fox came a-callin' and then I've been here ever since. Heck yeah, they didn't make room for all that money to give to McAfee.

That's what it sound like. It sound that way, but I don't necessarily, I think they could have still did the McAfee thing, but it's more about, as you know, in the world of Wall Street, diluting something to make it go back up. And that was a stock play, it was a Wall Street play. Which is fine, I'm happy with it.

I'm good. I ain't got no complaints. Not a stock guy, but I will take some advice from you any day. Small mom and pop spot Fox, right? You're running into everyone. You see talent all the time. You see joy. How many times do you argue with LaShawn McCoy

in the green room? Because I do it about 14, 15 times a day if I see him. We have text conversations. Yeah, we have more text conversations. But because he's early in the morning, I'm later in the afternoon, by the time I'm there, he's gone. But if I happen to be there anytime he's there, same deal.

I can't get up the stairwell without arguing about something. He tried to, at the Super Bowl he came on my podcast and He was trying to tell me, you know, obviously he was on block. They don't do this. They don't do that Semi you I don't know who you played with I said I don't I Can cuss right? Yeah all day say I'm gonna fuck you play with yeah. Okay He's got me you got me fucked up up. So the internet, you know, you know, we're crazy. Oh, I don't know who the fuck you played with. Okay. You got me fucked up.

So the internet, you know, internet went crazy. He's checking McCoy, whatever. And I was like, you know, you don't get it. You don't get it. I wasn't blocking DBs and I wasn't just cracking ends. Not only was I blocking DBs and cracking ends, I was taking linebackers to the trash cans. You don't get, oh, you ain't doing it. So then we had to go get the clips and put them in and blast them. And then, you know, but that's the shine. Shady, we love you.

And I tell him, I tell him all the time, I, you know, I see the show. I was like, man, that's a bad uniform you got on. You look about 150 pounds overweight, but you might want to, you know, you might want to, he goes, man, I'm going to the, I'm going to the treadmill right now. I'm good, because you might want to, you know, you might want to hit, he goes, man, I'm going to the treadmill right now, cause you got me going.

And he goes and goes to the gym, gets on the treadmill. No, wherever he's at, I don't know where he's at. I think he goes to the gym in Fox, by the way. And he gets on there and he'll send me the clip, letting me know that he's working out. I'm like, you still look pudgy. I don't understand how you can look slim one day and then you look like you gained a hundred pounds the next day

You know, it's it's running backs always gain linemen always lose. Yeah, it's just That's how it goes. Yeah, I told him I said I told joke. I said man a hairline. You just gonna take that off You gonna take it off. You can't get out of man's hairline Now get cuz he he got the he got the half moon going. He got the Jerry Rice on the Raiders. Remember the dread started back here. We just had that conversation about Jerry today, matter of fact.

Oh no. We had that conversation. And I love Jerry. No, we had to go, and I told Jerry, the year we beat them in the Superbowl, we hung out, like on a Monday or whatever day we got there. And I was like, Jerry, what you doing, man? Like, come on, man.? Like, come on, man.

Hey, man, come on, Key. I'm like, Jerry, you have 50. You know, you can just let it go. Just stop, because it was extensions. Yeah. It wasn't just his hair, it was extensions to it. Yeah, just, come on, Jerry. Oh, Jerry.

He looked like a lion. It was a man. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. I love it. I was a big Jerry fan. Dude, I mean, you got a hairline like you,. I love it. I was big Jerry fan. Dude, I mean, you got a hairline like you, you could say anything. No, I'm good.

I'm straight. Now, did Paul make it? Yeah, Paul Pierce made it. He made it. He made it. Was he barefoot? No, he wore shoes. So what happened, this is how it all happened, right?

In January, at the end of the NFL season, the Jets was looking for a quarterback. I mean, they're looking for a head coach, my bad. They're looking for a head coach. And so, I was on the air, and because I have a, I think like the people that I've been around, right? It's just, it's a natural thing. I think like Sean Payne, I think like Bill Parcells, I think like Belichick because I've been around them. I get them. I understand how they gonna operate, move, right?

So I go on the show and they like, who's gonna be the new head coach of the Jets? I said, I don't know. But I kind of figured it was AG name was coming up this, that and the other. So I said, I can promise y'all if Aaron Glynn get the job, Brett Farve ain't going to be on the quarterback. If Brett Farve is the quarterback. Aaron Rodgers. I mean, I'm sorry, Brett Farve, Aaron Rodgers.

Same shit. Same career. Same shit. Aaron Rodgers. I said, if Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback, Jules, I say, opening day of 2025, I will walk from my home in Calabasas to the studio. But I'm smart enough to know my guy and Aaron Glean gets the job. Now, I ain't, people think I got something from, he hadn't gotten a job at this point.

You know him. When I said it. You know him. I know him and I know what I would have done as the head coach and I know what Parcells and I know Sean Payton, like I know what they would do to that type of personality. Too much distraction. All the above, right?

So I said to him, I said, I would walk home and they like, oh, you know, I mean, walk to the studio, I mean, are you crazy? And they all like, watch, watch him be the star. I said, it's not gonna happen. A couple of weeks later, they cut him. So I didn't walk to the studio, they're like, are you crazy? And they all like, watch, watch you be the star. I said, it's not gonna happen. A couple of weeks later, they cut him. So I didn't have to walk. So now Paul, last night, says, on the show,

I didn't prompt him to doing it. People are blaming me based on what I did tell you. On speak the night before the second game of the Celtics Knicks series. Yes, he says, if we're not gonna lose two in a row, if we lose two in a row, I'm walking from home. Now, Paul lives by me. And I'm walking to the studio, Paul lives by me.

I'm like, you might not wanna do that, Paul. He's like, no, I'm going all in. I'm going to Celtic Pride, I'm going all in. I said, man, you might wanna take the series, not one game. No, I'm taking one game, so okay, cool. If the Celtics lose game two at home, I promise you, I'm walking here tomorrow. I'm walking here. I'm walking here 15 miles.

So it happened is that we got to that fourth quarter and that 20 point lead starts shrinking and shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. We texted on the group. I'm like, man, you might want to think about start lacing them up. You know, it just kept going, kept going, kept going. What's Paul saying? Is he silent? We texting on the group. I'm like, man, you might want to think about start lacing them up. You know, and it just kept going, kept going, kept going. What's Paul saying? Is he silent?

He like, nah, we all right, we all right. And all of a sudden he like, man, I'm in trouble. And he like, oh shit, man, this is bad. It happened in the social media world went on fire. They were crazy. Oh yeah. And he had to pay it off. He had to pay it off. And so he started paying it off at five, but he made it to the show today.

And we did a whole, the basic show was Boston Celtics, Paul. I can't believe it. Self has got me out here like this dog. I tried to tell him not to do it, but he was hard headed. Didn't want to listen. We're gonna bounce back. We're gonna bounce back. Oh my God. Took over the internet. I saw him on the walk twice. I saw him once closer to the house.

Then I went and got a haircut. Got my hair cut up. He's still walking. Two hours later. No, it might have been three's still walking. Two hours later. No, it might've been three and a half, four hours later. And then I caught him up in Bel Air, walking down some polona, caught him, gave him some water.

But then KG caught him earlier. And I think, who else caught him? Matt Barnes caught him. And then a bunch of other people caught him. It was the funniest thing ever. He's got his role born shoes and he came into the, he came into the studio drenched. Oh, it's, it's, it got hot today.

Today. Yeah. It got hot. Especially when you're going over that mountain. Yeah. It was funny. That sun, man, Paul's funny. I get in trouble with Paul, a man of his word. He's a man of his word though. Are you worried about these Celtics?

I'm worried. No, not yet, not yet. I'm still, you still got to work. One more, one more, one more. Yeah. Saturday, then I'll start worrying. One more, if they lose Saturday, then I'm worried. Right now, 0-2, 20 point leads in two games.

They're better on the road. Better on the road. The best record, regular season on the road, but they squandered two straight 20 points. 20? Yeah, that's hard to do. It's not now though. I feel like nowadays it's not.

It's crazy. No, it really isn't, but back to back is hard to do. Back to back. Is hard to do. Basketball, man, it's a game of runs. It's so different now. But I like that they're letting them play. They're letting them play right now.

Because it's a playoff. It's the playoffs. Yeah, playoff basketball. We'll be right back after this quick break. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Frye and Maria Tramarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past.

The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Farrers, known as the Wicked Lady, who terrorized England in the mid 1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies,

and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well-mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures.

Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia Now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, hello, Malcolm Gladwell here. On this season of Revisionist History, we're going where no podcast has ever gone before. In combination with my three year old, we defend the show that everyone else hates. I'm talking, of course, about Paw Patrol. There's some things that really piss me off when it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks.

My son watches Paw Patrol. I hate it. Everyone hates it, Except for me. Plus, we investigate everything from why American sirens are so unbearably loud, to the impact of face blindness on social connection, to the secret behind Thomas's English muffins, perfect nooks and crannies. And also, we go after Joe Rogan. Are you ready, Joe? I'm coming for you. You won't want to miss it. Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and bestselling author and meat eater founder, Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures, and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold,

connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like

Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's let's jump into a segment where we go back into time around where the game took place. This game took place January 10th, 1999. This will be fun and go over pop culture. Number one movie Patch Adams. Which one was that? That was Robin Williams.

Remember? Oh, all right. Yeah. Have you ever by Brandi? I remember Brandi, she had the braids, she was cutie. I loved Brandi, honestly. You remember Brandi? Yeah, absolutely. What around this pop culture? Sopranos premieres on HBO, Family Guy on Fox, Varsity Blues, Twitter. You got male in a Bugs Life,

Shakespeare in Love, all popping off in the box office. Not the one I've seen. And never really watched the Sprantos. Dang. What about Varsity Blues? No Varsity Blues? Nah, football movie. It's football Texas movie too.

We're California. Yeah, I'm not, yeah, football Texas. It's different. It's different. Oh yeah, big time. Yeah. So what's it like growing up around here and then going to SC? Well, I didn't grow up around here, but yes, big time. Yeah. So what's it like growing up around here and then going to SC?

Well, I didn't grow up around here, but yes, Los Angeles. In LA, in LA. Although I did go to Pacific Palisades for one year. It's just, you know, you, the hometown hero, I guess, if that's what you want to call it. Yeah. I mean, I grew up literally across the street

from the university. That's fucking awesome. So I originally wasn't gonna go to USC. I originally was going to Miami. And then Dennis Erickson left. Then I switched to Washington. And then DJ retired and they went on probation. Yeah.

And then John Robinson came back to USC and I was like, I'm staying home. Because Larry Smith was the coach at the time and he really didn't recruit inner city kids from LA. He was a big suburban guy. Prior to that, USC was heavy inner city. That's when we was balling and doing everything, and he came, and he wanted to go to Arizona

or somewhere in the suburbs, and it just wasn't the same type of athlete. And people from here, that's when Washington, Colorado, Nebraska, Cal, all started, Washington State, they all became powerhouses for a couple years because they were recruiting here in this base. And so when JR got the job, John Robinson got fired from the Rams and came back to USC,

it wasn't nothing else to talk about. But it's just, you know, you just know the neighborhoods, you know everything. I can tell you one thing, I didn't starve to death because family's here. I can go right at the road, get something to eat. I didn't have to worry about those things. It was just, you know, childhood dream

of always wanting to go to USC. Grew up literally across the street from them. Did you play baseball? I did. You know who Mark McGuire is? I, uh. You know who Randy Johnson is? Oh yeah, I know those guys. You've never Mark McGuire is, you know, Randy Johnson is, you've never met

anybody that has pitch BP to Mark McGuire caught Randy Johnson and warmed up Jack Del Rio till you met me as a kid. Whoa. Crazy. Right? Hell yeah. That's crazy. Yeah.

Cause as a kid, as a kid, as a, as a teenage kid, they're not even, yeah, I was an early teens,'s crazy, yeah. So as a kid. As a kid, as a teenage kid, yeah I was an early teen, it's like 11, 12. So we grew up across the street from USC. So USC at the time was a pretty open campus. You could just come and go as you please. And so we was the rack pack. It was a bunch of us.

You should just go and hang out after school and look at Marcus Allen and just see all of these guys running around, riding a lot and and whole deal. And you know, you became part of the university and the campus, believe it or not. Local kids. Yeah, local kids. So you know all of them. And like my mom managed the apartment building that a bunch of SC players lived in and we lived in. So back in this day, you could manage an apartment building, get free rent and you just managed to, that's what my mom did. And, um,

smart lady. And so now all of a sudden you meet these guys and you go into the games and you'd be in a part of their culture and their whole deal. Yeah. I pitched BP to them, warmed them up, did the whole shit's crazy. I tell that story to people all the time. How's your BP throw? I was fine. He was knocking them out the park. I'm sure it was like right big-ass little dude. I weren't you a Skinny but tall tall skinny kid. Yeah But you know that BP normal people I know but still you caught for rainy Johnson rainy Johnson Yeah, the big unit the big he's a photographer for the NFL sidelines now. Oh, I didn't know that Yeah, he's taking like pro shots.

And warmed up, and warmed up Jack Del Rio. That's crazy though. Hell yeah. That's what I was just saying. Oh my gosh. What was Ke' Sean Johnson like in 1999, rookie year? No, not 99, rookie year, third year. 96.

96. What was I like then? First playoff game. Shit, I was him. I mean, what would you be? Timothy. 99. Shit, I was living in New York. I was coming off. Well, it depends on what no 98. So I was coming off my first Pro Bowl. My second Pro Bowl. I was coming off my second Pro Bowl. Shit, I was toast to the town. Where in New York were you living? So I was living in Long Island

because we were in Long Island practicing. So I was living in Long Island, but I also had a apartment on Park Avenue as well. So. Hey, when you're the number one pick, you got two homes. Park Avenue, baby. Yeah, and I had just,

That's just a Saturday. I was kind of married, but you know, I was married at the time. Early married. I was kind of married, but you know, I was married at the time. I was kind of married, I hate to say it, but you know, probably love my kids, good, great kids, the whole deal, got a good deal out of that. Probably shouldn't have been married.

They probably got married a little too early, you know? 22 with a lot of money. Yeah, living in New York, probably a little too early. But that's what I was doing. I was in the middle of pop culture, like you said, middle of everything that was going on, the East Coast, West Coast, rap wars. I was in, you know, seeing people that was out there,

not to be named, but having some fun. New York in that time had to be really fun. That scene had to be crazy. That's insane. I love New York. New York's a fun city. Insane, bro. But see, we was good though then. Good to the point where they have been so bad that everything was a plus from there anyway, right?

I mean, like you think about it. I was one in 15 as a rookie. Prior to that, they were two in 14. That's how they got me. Then we went one in 15, Bill came, and the next year we was in AFC Championship game. So it's kind of like same thing. Yeah.

One year. What was the difference? Coaching. Dude, if you, if you knew the fucking coaches, Richie Cotite, I had, like it was, you'd, you'd literally jump off a building. Yeah. I mean, it was the worst because I was coming from USC and so coming from USC It was the worst, because I was coming from USC. And so coming from USC, Toast of the Town program,

Rose Bulls, Cotton, like we was the shit winning. Like we was winning. And I go to a program, our head coach was a guy named Richie Cotight. How he got the job, I have no idea, because he just got fired from Philadelphia because he was bad. You get fired because you're bad.

Jets like to do that. They hire fire coaches. Literally. Literally. This is not the first time. And they hire Richie Cotight. The funniest thing ever, though, is I'm just watching the culture of the building.

So we had practice one day. And our head coach, you know how to have a couple fields, a field over here, field over here, field over here. He's off to one of the far fields while we're practicing. He's got the brick cell phone. He's just chilling while we're practicing. On his phone, smoking his cigar, there's no, I don't know who the hell he's talking to.

But this was a everyday occurrence. This was something that was going on. Crazy, right? That's crazy. It was the wildest thing I ever seen, man. I was just like, this ain't, uh-uh. This is not what you expect when you get to the NFL. My rookie year, literally, we did whatever we wanted to do, when we wanted to do it, how we wanted to do it. You know what I'm saying? And we won at 15. And we won at 15. And so at that point for me, I really didn't care.

At one of, I was like, these dudes gonna get fired anyway. So we're actually playing the new England Patriots. What, what game is TNT at night? And, uh, I, along with a couple of other veteran players, we go to the Foxy lady in, uh, Providence, Rhode Island, legendary spot, Providence, right? I'm proud of that establishment. But we're staying there. We go there on a Saturday. I think it was, yeah, it was a Saturday

because we played on a Sunday night. Saturday we go there and we leave after bed check, but we walk right out the front fucking door. Oh my God. We don't go to side doors, we don't do anything. So now we are sitting at the Foxy Lady, obviously there's no clocks, it's like Vegas, and we're just being young kids that don't know any better or whatever. We go back, the bus is getting ready to get ready for the game.

We get back to the hotel. We done missed pregame meal, the early meeting. It was meeting. We done missed all that, right? So we go back in, they come to my room. I'm trying to get dressed today, come to my room, like what? I was like, man, I was in here asleep and I ain't,

y'all, you know, I over slept. And you over slept this long? I said, yeah, man, shit, I was tired, whatever, you know, the whole deal. And they're like, no, the security said he seen y'all leave and then It was like a whole day was getting ready to send me back But then I'm like if y'all send me back and it didn't go the way y'all say it went Y'all gonna be in trouble. Not me. Oh, and then they said hey, okay

He could stay and I play I wanted to plan a New England game that night. I did okay Oh, it was in 96 check Check it out. Coach Parcells first game back in New England. No, I would do that with Bill. No, no, no, no. So four, okay, okay, okay. Because I knew they would get ready to fire the other coach. Gotcha, gotcha. I already knew that.

I'm like, let me get ready to fire his ass. They're about to fire a coach. Parcells comes in day one. Is it just completely different? Oh my God, he fired the dude at the front gate that was a security guard named Harry. Harry had been like the security guard for like however many years, older guy.

Bill got rid of him immediately. And so one of our linebackers named Bobby Houston was a starting linebacker, started for the Jets, I don't know, four or five years in a row. Solid linebacker, like really good. He told him if he wasn't at off season conditioning, he was going to get rid of him. Dude didn't come off season conditioning.

Never played again in the National Football League. Cut him. Never played again in the National Football League. So, he started, he started the OTAs. So, he started, he started the OTAs. It used to be getting, you had to get 40 days over like a, I want to say maybe a two and a half month period of time.

You had to get 40 days in. And it was like, you go a week, maybe two weeks you're off, then you come back a week, maybe off a week, you know, that sort of deal. And so when he came, obviously I was one of the targets. Right? And so when he came, obviously I was one of the targets. Right? I was one of the targets. So he called my agent.

And so I'm like, fuck it with all this shit, man. You know, so now my agent go, well, he said, if you don't come, I said, man, what shit, man, I want to be at home with my family. I can do the same thing here. He goes, you tell him, is how he talks. He goes, da da da. I said, man, what shit, man, I'm gonna be at home with my family, I can do the same thing here. He goes, you tell him, this is how he talks, he goes, you tell him, if he's not here, on this such and such date,

it'd be the worst mistake he ever made. So I go, I go, right? So now at this point, I'm probably a little overweight. You know, I'm probably a little overweight, I'm probably 225-ish, somewhere in there. He goes, I sit down in this room. I go in there. I'm in his room.

He's got a dark room. He's got one little light on, like mafia-like, like you just see it. He's sitting there and we're talking. He goes, how much did you weigh? I said, shit, I think I'm about 225-ish. He goes, what was that guy in the Rose Bowl? So I think I was probably 2'10 maybe.

He goes, that's the guy I want. I said, okay, cool, no problem. So now I go home, I come back, go through the whole off season condition, I'm 208, right? So I'm looking crazy to him. I'm fucking, you know. So now all of a sudden, that's all I needed. I'm a man now.

For the rest of my life, he got me. For the rest of my life, because I did everything he asked me to do. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. He asked me to do something for see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. He asked me to do something for him. I did it like that. And now you could say, you could say one bad word about me in front of him.

You're going to, you're going to catch hell. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so that's how I changed like that. And like, he's a, he, my, after my second year, after my first year with him in 97, although I'm on a rookie contract, he tried to rip my contract up, but the management counsel with the NFL wouldn't allow it.

We did the deal, we did, he was getting ready to make me, at that time in 97, I hadn't even done shit, I had been fucking 65 catching, so he was gonna make me one of the highest paid receivers in the NFL at the time. We did the deal and everything, they sent it to management council. The management council didn't want to set a precedent, so they didn't approve it. That's how our trust and our loyalty became a bond like it is now. Wow. Yeah. So you gained Parcell's trust through cutting your weight.

Yeah. And then from that day on, because you did. Even to this day, I just talked to him the other day. He goes, what's the number? I said, shit man, I don't know. I'm probably 235 or something. I just slip it down a little bit. He goes, yeah, you look good, but I don't know if you're 235. You look like you got walnuts in your cheeks. I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm like, I'm good, coach. I really, you know, he's, well, you're doing good, son. You just keep doing what you're doing, man. I'm proud of you. Cause that's my guy.

You know? That's kind of, you know, when I say it all the time, you know, when you're around a guy for a long time that changes you, like I was around Belichick, it becomes like a fatherly figure to you. 100%. Even though like we didn't have that kind of relationship. See I had a crazy relationship with Parcell. I was the teacher's pet.

Now how was Bill when you were there? He was cool but he wasn't the boss. He wasn't the boss. But he was the boss. But he wasn't the boss. He was the boss on one side of the ball. He was the boss on the other side of the ball. And so I used to take reps on both sides of the ball, right? So because of the scout

team. I would go on defense and play safety and do some stuff there. As you notice, I got interception in the game. That's right. You know, but he was cool. Like I went to, I used to go to the MET games with Belichick. Belichick was cool. He just was Belichick. He wasn't the boss yet. He wasn't the boss. But the crazy shit is, this is how I knew, like when y'all really start getting down and winning and doing the whole, even before you, that I knew him as a head coach was good.

I don't give a fuck what nobody say, whether he cheated, didn't cheat, air, but gate, no gate, whatever. I knew he was good based on preparation. So I was part, I was a safety in the two minute drill, which on the back end, so let's call it the one minute, we would go every Friday, it's the Friday, yeah, every Friday after we do our walk through

or whatever. Situation walk through. I would have to meet with him, just me and him one on one. I'm probably watching cutups from 20 years ago that offensive coordinator, I don't care that those dudes are dead now, you know, but you got me literally watching the same thing. Look, it's a three by one and here's what they're going to do.

This is like six year old video. This isn't four game video. Then we get, and I'm with him literally probably an hour and a half watching four plays because it was so attention to detail. But I wind up getting interceptions and because of that, I was sort of knowing where I should be with all that sort of stuff. That's how I knew he was good as a coach.

And what another thing that he does, well, I think he can take complex shit and simplify it for an athlete. Yeah, absolutely. He can give you a key, hey, just worry about these three things. Yeah. If you get burnt on something else, it's my fault. You're not going to use it there. We said, I don't give a shit what, where you go, whatever. If I ever play against you, you're never going to catch a pass. We're going to

double 19. That's it. I don't care. Did he do that when he left? No, because I only played in New England one time in the preseason. And I might have had one catch and it was whatever and I got out the game. We never got a chance to play against New England when I was playing. Brian Flores used to say that to me when he was our DC. Then he went to Miami. He literally doubled me every fucking play. I had one catch that whole game.

But when I did play against the Jets, which is a carry over with Al Groh and them and that Belichick had left, but Al Groh was still there and that was all part of the same team. He did it. One catch, one yard. When we played in Tampa, game four or five of that season, I had one catch, one yard

and it was a fucking shovel pass. Everywhere I went, Brian Cox lined up over me, Aaron Glenn was over the top of him, or Marcus Coleman was on me, and Aaron Glenn was over the top of him with Victor Green over, and it was like, dude, seriously, like, come on, let me breathe. I had one catch, one yard.

Worst game? Eh, might not be the worst game I ever had, because I had the one in Buffalo where I had nine attempts, one catch, the ball stuck to my face my rookie year because it was so cold. Dude. Yeah, I remember that exact same thing too. And ours was a week 17 game. I wasn't even supposed to play because I was a little banged up and we were already thinking

we were going to win this game and clinch the playoff spot and whatever halfway through the second quarter like Edelman get in. Oh fuck. You know, he everybody said, we get gloved up and shit hit by everyone. Contact every play guy over here. Guys, the same shit. But Parcells was a guy, man. He just, he just got it.

He knew what time it was. You know what I'm saying? He was the reason I actually, the real reason, one of the main reasons I retired when I did, cause I left probably five years on the table, but like he told me. You look at the assembly line, the guys that you came in the league with, they're getting off and there's new guys like for instance, Julian Ellman that's getting off. Young ones. What are you you what are you doing? You already don't want a championship you've made tons of money like what are you

chasing? Yeah. And that told me says okay all right it makes a lot of sense what what am I chasing? Let me go ahead and go on the TV that's why I went to ESPN because him and I went to ESPN together then Then he left. The next year he left and went to Miami to become the president of the team. And him and I talked about me becoming the general manager, but it would be economic suicide based on TV. And I wouldn't have been the first black general manager. So it was kind of like, I said, man, you know what?

I'm gonna stay in TV, I'm good. Because he wanted me to come back and play and play along with Ted Ginn Jr. and all these dudes, and also be part of the front office. And I was like, I went down, did the visit, did the whole thing, and I just said, nah, you know what, I'm good. I'm gonna stay in TV.

I think I'm gonna be all right. It's nice when you wake up after work and you're not hurt. You're not sore. Cause the older you get, regardless of everyone, anyone wants to say how freak of a, when you're 33 years old, 34 years old, that one day hurts. But see, I get bored fast.

It ain't even, it wasn't even the injuries, cause I've never really been injured. It was just being bored, sitting there, listening to them talk to him about bunch right 200 jet smoke I don't want to fucking hear that. I know what that is. Same shit. I don't want to look there and I don't need that talk to him. Yeah, but you're talking to me. I got to sit in the room I don't do that. Let me just rest. That's what Randy Moss used to say I don't need to bring these say chattyty O these fucking meetings are going to retire me.

It's like the worst thing. When you played in the league a long time, there's only so much shit you can learn. How much am I going to see? Oh, he's got inside leverage. Here's what he's going to do. I know what he's going to do. How many times offensive line coach going to yell inside out?

Inside out. Yep. How many times we can hear that? Inside out. Hip to hip on a fucking double team. I'm not even a lineman. I know that because I heard? Inside out. Hip to hip on a fucking double team. I'm not even a lineman, I know that, because I heard it so much. Hip to hip.

Hip to hip, inside. Get up on the second level. Scraping over the top, make sure you stay inside out. Don't let him force you. Like, man, I don't know. Talk to him. It's a lot though. It is, it really is.

People don't realize that about pro sport, pro football. It's like you're in school. You only practice two hours. You're only outside for two hours. Everything else is fucking preparation. There's all the eggs in one basket. You only have 17 games. So these coaches, they're fucking crazy

and they prepare for everything. I used to tell Bill, cause we lit an, y'all may have did it in New England. I don't know, but we would practice on fucking Christmas. Or practice on Thanksgiving. We wouldn't have meetings after, that was the nice thing. No, but dude, we want to go home. We have families.

Just because you don't, I said, just because you don't want to be home with your wife don't mean I don't want to be home with my family. Like seriously. What did Bill say to you? Well, you just worry about tie law, you know, some shit like that. You know know something like that. You just worry about tie law You got the tie law flu this week

I know cuz at one time I did play this new game. I had like a hundred and I know it's probably like a hundred and Four hundred five was fucked up. I was a toe up and You know the media blah blah blah keep shining practice. He's got the tie law flu media, blah, blah, blah, Keeshon and Prague. He's got the Ty Law flu. The fuck I'm getting here to die. What are you talking about? How is Ty Law playing against him? He's physical, huh?

He was physical, but I was a physical receiver. Yeah, you're a big guy. It was great. New England fans hated me, because I didn't do number talk shit, and I used to murder New England. I used to murder them. That was the worst thing they could ever see

coming through the building. No, real talk. Google it. Ty was like one of my good friends that probably shouldn't have been a good friend being an opponent. So one time I run a jab 144 X post, play action boom. I run a Jab 144 X-Post, play action, boom. So I sell the out to back to the post, boom, he hits me,

he tackles me, but he helps me up. And the fucking new, you know, I said something about you plug and playing, your dad and everybody went crazy. What the fuck's going on? What the fuck, I didn't do anything. I just said, these nights, receiver the best one that they've had, plug and play. But anyway, that whole, whatever that radio station is up there, they went crazy.

So Ty Law helps me. And the people were crazy. Oh, he's kicking your ass. Cause we beat them and whatever. It's like, he's kicking your ass and you're helping him up off the fucking ground. This is not, you know, New England football. And I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Like I helping him up off the fucking ground. This is not, you know, New England football. I was like, dude, what are you talking about?

Like I helped him up. He's a friend of mine. We played in Pro Bowls together. We were Pro Bowl MVPs together. Like stop. But it's just a crazy thing. But he was real, you know, he was physical and good though. He was a good, he was one of the better,

obviously he's a Hall of Famer, but he was one of different when y'all played than when we played. Even though you caught us on the back end, tail end of Famer, but he was one of different, when y'all played and when we played, even though you caught us on the back end, tail end of our careers, the cornerbacks, in my opinion, were way better when I was playing than they are like now. Because it was true travel, man to man corners. It was just, nowadays.

It's zone. It's match zone. You get one guy who's really good at the corner, but he's got a, and you got three, you gotta pick a receiver. Where then, it was three corners, it was, I mean, three receivers, it was three corners that could just go.

Yeah. No matter what. I mean, you know what I'm saying? No, I agree a little bit with that. There was a lot more man. It's way more man. So like, there's only, in my generation, the only really guy that did it was Reeves.

Reeves probably did it. Reeves is the only guy that would follow. That travel, yeah. He would follow guys. Cause see, you called Ty at the end. Yeah, but that was, you know, that was old Ty. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You called him at the odd.

Champ Bailey was older. He was older. Yeah. But the game also changed because the rules, one. Two, a lot of these people went to this, we call it the Seattle six, which is like a match zone, where these corners, they had like the Sherman defense, where they have these long ass corners where they play off

and they play with their eyes in the backfield so they can break because they have help everywhere. It's not really a man, but it's like a man match. So the game kind of changed. No one's hitting anyone anymore. It's different. I would agree with that. Ty would feel though.

Chap, all them dudes would feel. But back in them days though, and I hate to say back in the days because it sounded like it was 55 years ago, but I remember we were playing Kansas City. Kansas City was one of my worst outputs too. They got three corners. They had this guy named Dale Carter, who was, could have been the best corner ever in history,

but he just was Dale. And then they had James Hasties. Hasties was as big as me. And they had a guy named Mighty Mouse that was probably half your size. A physical and quick? No, he just was quick. He was quick. So when I broke the huddle, so all week long we're game planning for me to get

Dale Carter because Dale Carter was long. He was six, two, and he was, you know, a freak of nature and athletic and the whole deal all week long, we thinking we get Dale Carter. So we go to Kansas City, we break the huddle first. And I look and Hasty's is going with me. Fuck. I'm sitting there and going, oh fuck, this is getting ready to be ugly.

Yeah. Cause he was so big and strong and physical and good. He was good. Brandon Browner. He was so good. I was over there chicken fight, man. I got so frustrated in the game that I called it, I caused the pick six to damn near cost us the game

because I couldn't get open. I just couldn't, it was raining, I couldn't get open. So we in a three by, I think it was in the empty left. That's right, it was empty left 74 shout tosser, a 75 shout tosser. I was in the three by two. I was the middle guy. So we went three by two. I was the middle guy. So we went one, two, I was the middle guy.

I don't remember who was on the outside. Out that Chills versus two? So I, what I did is- Are you in the shout? Yeah, no, I'm on the tosser side. Oh, so you have a slam. Yeah, I got a slam. So, slant, boom, shout.

So now, Corbett was the, was Corbett the third guy? He's probably the three slot running the 10 yard shout route. 10 yard ghost outett was the, was Corbett the third guy? He's probably the three slot running the 10 yard shout route. 10 yard ghost out. No, he was over there with us on, he was on the, he was on the slat side. Oh, so. But what I did is I crossed face in front.

Yeah. Instead of going, no. You went behind. I went behind. And then in front. Instead of in front. You gotta always go in front. I went behind.

That's the first time and the last time that's ever happened, the first time and the last time Vinny Tessiverdi dog cussed me. Yeah. Pick six going the last time that's ever happened, the first time in the last time Vinny Tessaverde, dog cuss me. Pick six going the other way, we damn near lose the game. But I was so, I couldn't get open. I fucking go behind, Donnie Itt was, falls off of a Corbett is what happened. He fell off of a Corbett, pick six the other way,

and when it happened, I just was like, holy fuck, I just lost the game. Dog cuss me, you know, you fucked up, did it, I just lost the game. Dog cussed me, you know, you fucked up, did it? I never did it again. I never had that issue again. But it's football's fun, you know. Did, you always remember your first dog cuss on the tosser and getting across the face.

Because I never, I was always the outside guy. The last guy was the third guy. Well, they were probably trying to get you decoyed. You're decoyed. Many times I've been decoyed. So yeah. Because if you're crossing face they're trying to open up that backside. Everybody cross cross behind and I fucking I don't know what made me go behind. You know how many times we ran I mean it's so funny to hear shout tosser that's our offense too. Yeah shout tosser. It comes from Charlie Weiss. 74, 75 shout tosser. Empty right. comes from Charlie Wise. 74, 75, shout tosser, empty right,

semis, 82 semi, 83 semi. We called it Seam. 35 right, 35 base, 34 base, all the same shit. 34 and then 134 would be the play action. 134. Max Protect. Max Protect, 134, X-Curl. Yeah, so you'd have a two man route concept,

maybe one if it's- Same offense. Two act, or double tight acts. We used to call it New York. It was like our 13th personnel. We're gonna be only be one receiver, everyone else. New York personnel. Yeah, New York.

And that would be like a key Shantae. What was the other one? It was New York was one, but what was the one with the Z? New York was the X, and It was the other one- Chatio's gonna kill me. It was the other one though. It was the other one. Jadio is going to kill me. It was the other one though. It was the same thing.

It was, was it, but it was a Z. It was tight Z. We used to call it. It might've been too tight, but I did both. I did both. Yeah. I was basically the four minute offense. Yeah.

I was the big dude. So I'd had to put the hand in the ground, come in like a fake tight end. I caught Teddy. I caught Teddy Bruce ski one time. Oh shit. Right. At the goal line down in the ground fake tight end. I caught Teddy, I caught Teddy Bruceki one time. Oh shit, right? At the goal line, down in the ground, slammed down. He fucking shot, pop out, touchdown,

free-beat against the Patriots, thank you. Oh shit. Oh shit. And so I go to the stands and I give the throat slash. They outlawed that because I gave the throat slash. But this was at the time where that probably wasn't a good idea to do. Why, what was going on? I think we were coming off the,

we were coming out of the whole OJ Simpson saga, the whole deal. Yeah, so Brett Favre had did it that same week. Favre did it that same week, and I did it that same week, and the league was like, no more throat slashes, please. Yeah, too many throat sl flash. We'll cut it. Man.

1999 Ricky Williams, the Heisman trophy. What a monster he was. Should have gone to SC though. He's from San Diego. Yeah, that's true. He almost came, but I guess Texas paid more. I heard he took a pay cut to get to the league for his first few years. Probably. You know, TD MVP.

This, he was a monster for monster for like a six year span. It was just Terrell Davis. We played against him at the LFC Championship game. Randy Moss was rookie of the year this year. What a stud. I played with Randy. He was a monster. What do you think of Randy?

Freak. Freak. Just, I've never seen somebody so tall be able to run so fluid. Fluid. Yeah. He don't even look like he's running He almost came to SC too Well, he had that close he went to Notre he had a crazy story. Yeah, but he but when he got

Bounced out of either Florida State another name. He was gonna come to SC But I don't think I think we just said nah, never mind. Yeah, cuz he was gonna come And play with me, but they was just like, I think it was the whole, and it wasn't even that horrible, right? It's just not to me, it's not, it's nothing near, okay, you get into a fight, yay. I mean, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah.

Oh man, that would have been incredible. Now in NIL, are you staying all, and if you were in NIL life, are you staying at SC all year or are you going to the highest bidder? I you staying at SC all year or are you going to Heisbitter? I'm staying at SC all year. All clear. And the reason is, is cause we could pay.

And I wouldn't, I'm a loyal person. I'm not a bouncing around guy. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not going to leave just because somebody offering me, you know, four million versus two and a half. I'm not going to jump and run. Yeah.

Cause I'm a loyal guy. Plus I value education. USC's education, we run the state of California. Great alum too. Great alum. We were all over the, so you know what I'm saying? So it's a little bit different dynamic

and we'll pay, but it would have been very expensive. I probably would have been, we were talking, I was having this conversation not too long ago. I probably was based on what all these arch mannings and shit like they're getting, I probably was a $10 million guy a year. Yeah.

Yeah, if I had to equate that, what they doing there. Number one pick a receiver. Oh yeah, of course. 10 million a year, you know. You'd be up there. It was a different, got a certain look. I'm from LA, you know what I'm saying, kind of got a nice look to me and shit.

I probably would've, I would, cause I balled out my sophomore year of college. But you went to a smaller school. So I would've went to Oregon. That's what I'm saying, you go to- I would've, because I balled out my sophomore year of college. But you went to a smaller school. So I would've went to Oregon. That's what I'm saying. You would've left. You would've left. I would've went to the Pac-10.

Yeah, of course you would've left. But it would've been smart for you to leave. Yeah. Leaving USC to go where? Where am I going? To Alabama? I'm not going to fucking Alabama. Me, going to Alabama?

Brother, not a chance. From the West Coast? Oh hell no. What if the bag was way bigger? It wasn't gonna be much bigger. Oh that's true, that's true, that's true. SC can pay. You gotta see, we can pay what we wanna pay when we wanna pay it.

To who we wanna pay it to. NIL wasn't NIL but I still got what I needed even though it wasn't NIL. You see what I'm saying? Wink wink. Statute of limitations. I know exactly what you mean. And then also, I mean SC, they have some of the most,

they have like the most Heisman's, right? Uh, I think we do by like one. By one, like maybe Ohio State or something. What's the Mount Rushmore of USC football players? Man, it'd be tough to build one because we so deep. Deep. Yeah. We don't even celebrate all American status unless you're number one, unless you're a first team,

and you have to be like Walter Camp or AP or one of those type. It can't be like Julian Edelman's all-American first team. He vote, they wouldn't even dare give you a plaque. Because we got too many for years. Like we don't even have, we don't even retire jerseys unless you win the Heisman. Yeah, it's a real estate problem there.

Yeah, it's just, it's crazy though. Like you couldn't be on Tom Brady and Julia Edelman's All-American team. Okay, that's cool, but they're not going to honor you for that, you know? That's just how the, that's how our university is. It's just a weird deal. Off the top four right now though,

who do you think immediately you can put yourself in? I'm in automatically though. That's easy. Got you. Inanimous, all Pac-12, 100th anniversary team, like only dude to get it. Only. Only one out of everybody.

Only. Only one. Out of all the great players of the Pac-12. So who are the top three that are sitting up on that man with you but no boss I'm serious it's hard because of the history in the dad the dead beyond there who marks Alan that's what I'm just hard I'm just gonna go by era because there's so many different errors more think about this though Julian Ronnie lot okay so let's just say Ronnie lot Anthony Munoz,

Leigh-Anne Swan, Marcus Allen. What about Troy Palamalu? What about Keyshawn Johnson? What about Carson Palmer? What about, you know, like it's just hard, Reggie, but like it's, you can't even, you can do it, I think we do it more by position

than we do by the Mount Rushmore. We do ours more by position. They need a theme park. There's no Mount Rushmore sighting for USC. So when you start saying best running back, now that's easier. Yeah, Marcus Allen. What about Reggie Bush? Okay, Reggie Bush too. You know, you just, Charles White, you know, it's just like, but then when you get to receivers hands down, we all know who that is. So they didn't even question. It's unanimous.

It's not even close. Not even close. Not even close. Let's go. Not even close. I'm arrogant, but still not close. It's not. It's not close.

So let's jump into this game, Jackie. Let's do it. Let's do it. Should we hit these Jags first? Yeah, hit these Jags. These Jags, 11 and five. Only their fourth year in existence. Fourth year.

Remember they came in in 95 with the Panthers. I remember that. As an expansion team. Tom Coughlin, coached all from the beginning to now. GM as well. Drafted Fred Taylor ninth overall this year. Rookie Fred this year. Freddie T, I play with Freddie.

Beast, bro. Reggie B, Barlow. This was back when they were in the AFC Central for all you conference heads out there. Went six and two in divisional games. Started the year hot hot five and oh And just leading up to this they'd had quite a bit of success Made the playoffs in their first two out of their first three seasons and they were in the AFC championship in 96 Which is pretty crazy. Kena McCartyle led the team to 64 catches. I mean receiving wait

They just know okay. He just got 64 reception. I thought that was the leaders. No, they just got two leaders, Jimmy and him. Well, Jimmy, he had, he had 1100 yards, eight tugs. We got to put some shine on these guys. Marks for real. That's crazy though. 78 catches and 64 catches back then be like 125 today. Yeah. Crazy, right?

You know, it's crazy that what did Fred Taylor didn't really do much. Fred Taylor was a rookie do much this game though. Fred Taylor was a rookie. Yeah, this is rookie year. I know, but he still went for 1200 yards. I mean, he had a hell of a rookie year, but you could tell probably in Belichick's meeting he said, he ain't letting this guy beat us. Yeah, sure.

I'm sure. I'm sure he did. What do you think about when you think of this Jaguars team? They was good. I mean, they were right there. They just couldn't ever get over the hump. Um, when you look at the secondary, I remember Aaron Beasley came out with me from Virginia, West Virginia, uh, Donovan Darius with Syracuse down to the Darius. Damn.

They broke my sternum on a, on a, on a Turkey hole shot on the, on the right, on the right side line. Yeah. And he hit me. And I still feel it to this day, on the right sideline. He did a little gasp. Out and up. Yeah, and he hit me, bam! And I still feel it to this day. I held on to the ball, but I fucking, you know. And it's so funny, his daughter, I believe his daughter, what was it? His daughter works at Fox. She had put him on the phone with me a couple months ago.

Yeah, and we were talking about that hit. Oh my. And then he hit me late on the reverse for the touchdown. Oh yeah, you were like two steps into the end zone. Yeah, he hit me late, but whatever, it's fine Oh yeah, you were like two steps into the end zone. Yeah, he hit me late, but whatever, I did this five. And you're a tall target, so he probably got you right in the back. Yeah, Deion Figures, but he got the worst on the turkey hole shot.

He the one who got the worst. Sometimes, because you're a big ass motherfucker. And I knew how to absorb the hit. Yeah. Deion Figures, I remember. I remember all these dudes. Like, I played with Tony Buscelli in college. Tony Buscelli taught me how to block.

What did he say? He just drive my feet, lock in, and just drive my feet, dump. I just did a voicemail episode before this, and I said, you don't block with your hands, you block with your feet. Yeah, yeah, he taught me how to block. It's hand battle to get in position.

And I tell Mark Brunel all the time, I picked you, be quiet. Uh. That's true. Reggie Boyle was one of my good friends. getting position. And I tell Mark Brunel all the time, I picked you, be quiet. That's true. Reggie Bualo is one of my good friends. Now, did you did? Did Parcell say anything about Coughlin when you remember preparing about this?

Because he just, he, because they were all under him. Yeah, he coached with him and here's what they're going to do. And Chris Palmer is a friend of mine. And, you know, he gave it a whole spiel. Yeah, I can see it. Let's break down these jets. get into these 12 and four New York.

Jets, four jets, man. It's weird to say, right? That crazy. That's crazy. 12 and four. I did get we got our ass beat by the jets in the playoffs. Oh, San Cheeto. Yes, and she took a keep going. No, man, these guys were AFC East champs.

This was Bill Parcell's second season. Turn that thing around quick. You remember two years before this. Keyshawn's right here. One in 15. I mean, brutal stuff. That's a fucking turnaround. Brought in Curtis Martin in the offseason, signed Vinnie Tesfurt.

He'd been let go by Baltimore. Seven regular season wins over eventual playoff teams, which is pretty cool. Like, you beat some good competition this year. Some dudes on this team. This was a team with some dudes. You got Wayne Krabette, you got Keyshawn, Kyle Brady, the tight end, Vinny Testa Verde.

I mean, Pepper Johnson, Pepper Johnson, my god, Mo Lewis. And then the star started Otis, my man Smith. You got like a star started coaching staff. As you know, you got Romeo Cronell, you got Charlie Weiss, you got Bill Belichick, you got Al Groh, we talked about earlier. The big tune is your head coach hadn't been to hadn't won a playoff game in 12 years, hadn't made the playoffs in nine.

So this was big. No, this was this was a big deal. This is a big game. We'll be right back after this quick break. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tramarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrer's, known as the Wicked Lady, who terrorized England in the mid 1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death.

Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes, but you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well-mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Hello, hello, Malcolm Gladwell here. On this season of Revisionist History, we're going where no podcast has ever gone before. In combination with my three-year-old, we defend the show that everyone else hates. I'm talking, of course, about Paw Patrol. There's some things that really piss me off when it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. If my son watches Paw Patrol, I hate it.

Everyone hates it, except for me. Plus, we investigate everything from why American sirens are so invariably loud, to the impact of face blindness on social connection, to the secret behind Thomas' English muffins, perfect nooks and crannies. And also, we go after Joe Rogan. Are you ready, Joe?

I'm coming for you. You won't want to miss it. Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll be diving into some of the lesser-known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best-selling author and meat-eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here and I'll say it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come

to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1978, Roger Caron's first book was published, and he was unlike any first-time author Canada had ever seen. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. Had spent 24 of those years in jail. 12 years in solitary. He went from an ex-con to a literary darling almost overnight. He was instantly a celebrity. He was an adrenaline junkie and he was the star of the show. Go-Boy is the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable.

I had a knife go in my stomach, puncture my screen, break my ribs, I had my feps all in my hands. Only to find himself back where he started. Rodger's saying this, I've never hurt anybody but myself. And I said, oh, you're so wrong. You're so wrong on that one, Rod. From Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts, listen to GoBoy on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How was Aaron Glenn as a teammate? Do you know he's going to be a head coach? Current head coach on the team?

I didn't know he would be a head coach until later on in his coaching career. Yeah. Great teammate. I mean, it's like one of my boys. But didn't, not really, looked at him. I thought maybe Otis would have been head coach. Jerome Henderson would have been head coach. Those type of dudes would have been head coaches, not AG. I didn't think AG was going to be a head coach. Hey.

I just didn't see him coaching. He just didn't, he never used to coach. I knew Brian Cox would be a coach because he was always fucking coaching, especially like me. He would coach me and then go cut out the coaches. He would literally be like, I'm not telling motherfuckers to get you the ball,

man, don't fucking, you know, Key, man, tell them. And he'd be cussing the coaches out too. It was it. This was like, out of all the teams that I played on, this was where I had my most fun, was this unit with these guys. You're younger also, you're still. Yeah, but just the personalities, like the camaraderie.

Lot of dogs. Lot of dogs, but there was a... And you clearly like to work hard if you're with Purcells. Yeah, this was a... There was a... And you clearly like to work hard if you're with Purcells. Yeah, this was a serious camaraderie team building type situation where other teams that I played on, it was clickish. But all of us would hang together, whether it was Richie, whether it was Ray Lucas,

whether it was even Corbett, even Dietrich Ward, obviously Chris, Vic, Marcus Coleman, you know, Mo, Ferri, I just was with Ferri not too long ago. Like we all would fucking go after the games, all go to the clubs and party. And it was just a, it was a, it was a, it was a, just a crazy thing, man. But the interesting thing is,

Bill would have me followed by security. Like the security team would follow me wherever I go. And I come back the next day and be like, how's that chicken parm? How did that go? Fuck you. Oh, fuck it man, what's wrong with you? My details?

Seriously. So one day, I was in New Jersey, and New Jersey from our practice facilities, probably in traffic was probably three hour drive or whatever the case is. So I was messing with a gal at this time that, boy, she's laughing, that I probably wasn't married.

I probably shouldn't have been messing with. Let's just say that. Probably should have waited a little bit longer to deal with that. So I get back to the facility. He goes, what were you doing in Jersey? That's the way. He goes, what were you doing in Jersey? That's the way he talks. What were you doing in Jersey?

What do you mean what was I doing? I wasn't in Jersey. Don't you lie to me. I said, what you talking about, Bill? Don't you drive a green Navigator in one of those trucks? I said, yeah, I drive a green Navigator. He says, are you stupid or are you dumb? I said, what the fuck?

I said, Coach, what are you talking about? You were over at Broad's house. I'm like, Bill, what are you talking about? Are you stupid? She's not even officially divorced yet. I'm like, what the fuck? You should park your car in the garage. You got your car parked outside.

I know everything you, this is, I'm telling you the truth, Jules. And I'm like, is this my fucking really? And so I started, I'm like, so I was mad basically the whole week. So I wouldn't even talk to him. See, I play games with him. I literally like, asking some of my ex teammates

if you ever get a chance to, I used to play games with the coaches. You know how coaches try to act, you have a bad game and they try to act like they don't want to talk to you or they, you know, they don't say but two words. That's how I used to treat them. I'd go warm up, put my cleats on,

I won't talk to them. I'd go stand over there, stretch by myself. What's wrong with him today? Nothing wrong with me, I'm good. And I'd walk away. They'd try to bring me, I want to tell you something about this route. I go, oh, okay, cool, go back.

I freeze them out like they would do us. And so that whole week, I didn't say a word to him at all. And you could tell he knew that he made me mad by sending Steve Yarnell, which was our security guy, sent some of their investigators to follow me. They used to follow, literally follow us all in New York City and everything. But that's why I love you though. It was some of the best, it was some of the best years.

Those times were some of the best, man. Keyshawn, you're a big investment, dog. No, but you don't need to. You're a big investment. But you don't need to have, I'm not, I don't fuck, first of all, I don't do drugs. Regardless. I barely, I don't even think I was drinking at this time. It's not about that though.

You know, what if, what if, no, I get it. What if someone comes in? I know I get it. I probably shouldn't have. And they see the green navigator. I probably shouldn't have. And the husband or, I don't know. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have been doing that.

Some Parcells got two dudes out there getting them for you. No, it's true. You would have been loving them. No, it's true, it's true, it's true, it's true. I'm gonna say it's true. Probably shouldn't have done that. But what are you gonna say? You're young.

You're young. You're young. It was one of the things, it was like, oh. Hey, we've all been there. That's Jersey living, baby. What was Wayne Corbett like, like a teammate? Wayne was cool, man. He was just a normal guy who worked his little tail off,

overachiever. Deserved literally everything that he got. Um, and we, we played together and we, it's crazy thing. Cause we used to go out. We drove, we went to Atlantic city in the limousine together. And this was after my book. This is like in 98 and shit. Um, it just, he was, he was cool, man, hard worker. You know, he was a hard working little son of a gun.

I call him the original. They call him the slot father. What's the fucking guy that played in New England? Wes Welker. Wes Welker. Yeah, he the original Wes Welker type. He was a good little dude, scrappy, would fight his ass off, you know.

And the thing with me and him is the media in New York, West Coast versus East Coast, white versus black, big personality versus little old hometown hero, they took that and ran with it. So they created it. See, I didn't, I don't remember that. Yeah, they created it. Cause I, but in all fairness,

I probably shouldn't have called him a mascot in my book. But, but it wasn't, I didn't look at it as a, as a dis. That's not what I looked at it as. You looked at it like he's the, he's the path, like he's the flag carrier. He's the guy that no matter what goes wrong. He's a jet. He's a fucking jet through and through.

I get what you mean. That's the way I look at it. Flag carrier. But they, in the media, didn't look at it that way. They looked at it as brass West Coast flip-flop wearing board short t-shirt guy comes in driving a Ferrari our guy who works hard carries a lunch pail from New Jersey. I dare you. That's the way they looked at it.

I was like, whatever. I saw that Cribs episode of Wayne Corbett. He has some cars now. You filmed Wayne Corbett on Cribs? Wait, wait, but wait. He was on Cribs. You remember? Yeah, he was on Cribs.

He was on Cribs. I don't remember that. I remember. He got the pool. He had like the pool with Coleson. He had a couple of like, he had a couple of poor Vets and shit. He had Vets, he had a Bentley, all those shit.

But that was the difference. So that right there is why I became the number one overall pick. It wasn't just my football skills. It was everything that I brought to the organization. When I first got to the Jets, them Jokers was wearing jeans and boots and driving trucks. All of a sudden I come, I'm suited and booted.

I got the earrings. I got the diamond Rolexes. I'm living a certain life, driving Ferraris in New York City. It was just a different, you see what I'm saying? You know got the diamond Rolexes, I'm living a certain life, driving Ferraris in New York City. It was just a different, you see what I'm saying? You know what the kids call that now? What's that, swag? They say you got aura.

Well, I had aura, I had swag. I had swag before swag. That's right. Plus Riz. You know, plus Riz. Charisma. I had all that. Big three, baby.

And so all of a sudden, that team, all those dudes changed. They start driving Ferraris, Porsches, Mercedes Benz trucks. They just started doing all that shit. I mean, they were also one in 15, two in 14. When you go eight and eight and you start making the playoffs, Joker's gonna put you on a saddle up. You've never had this experience

to be able to go into a city and you get ready to go in a restaurant and they close the window on you. No, it's closed and open because you suck. They wouldn't even let you in in New York. I've had that experience before. That's brutal. We're like, how you go? They're like, oh no, we closed. It's like, come on, man, you serious right there? I just see y'all lady of five people. It's nine o'clock, man. It's New York City because they wouldn't even let us in because we were so bad. They didn't want our business. Wow.

We were bad though at 115. You're not here. No, we're good there. So let's jump into it. Let's see. Jackie, let's break this game down. So the Jets were coming in this thing. The two seed got the bye,

finished the year in a six game win streak. They were hot. The Jags, new team, but up and coming. Ballin couldn't quite get over that hump. As Keishon said earlier, first time they won their division, they were the three seed coming off a wild card round, went over the Patriots 25-10.

The faltered a little bit down the stretch, lost two of their last three in the regular season. And this was Bill Parcell's first game as Jets head coach in the playoffs and Keishon's first playoff game. See, I didn't even know what the two seed meant back to come so young. I didn't even know the magnitude of getting the two seed. I didn't really, it's like, oh, we're in the playoffs,

we got the two seed, okay, we got a home game. I didn't really. And a buy. Yeah, a buy. I really didn't digest it until later on in my career how important that shit was. Well, when you're older, you need it more too. Yeah.

Because you need the health. You know, you need that extra time. Now, what do you do on bye week with Parcells? Did you give you a tough bye week or you guys full blue and white game like we used to do? Full everyday. You had a scrimmage. No, we didn't scrimmage,

but we would have practice and a whole deal in pads and run it back and do, you know, start it back from the top. You fucked up, blah, blah, blah. Same thing. Two days would be really hard. Give you a few days off, then come back and start it up. No, so we would try to figure out blah, blah, blah. Same thing. Two days would be really hard. Give you a few days off, then come back. No. So we would, we would try to figure out

when we actually had off. Everyone. I mean, but they wouldn't tell us. Never, never, never. Sneaky coaches. No, because Bill used to do that shit with us. But I had, but I've always had. Moles.

Moles. You gotta have the mold. I've always had a mold. You always have a mold. Always. Cause I was always cool to everybody. Like, right? I'm taking care of dudes. I've always had a mold you always have a mole always Because I was always cool to everybody like right I'm taking care of dude Yeah, always got it so they you know like I'm not supposed to say this But I think you guys are off on Friday back month

You know that type of thing and I was more like a song the coaching staff lower level I just staff with nobody it could be a GA Or I could be an assistant coach close. Yeah, I was close with Todd Haley, my receiver coach. That's like my brother. And Bill knew that. So he wouldn't even tell, he wouldn't tell Todd certain shit. Yeah.

Try to find out who the rat is. It's one time, I don't know if New England ever did this before. So we're actually getting ready to play New England. This is the- Oh, the Foxy Lady game? No. This is, no, this is, this is either

Tuna Bowl one or Tuna Bowl two. Okay, let me look here. We did Tuna Bowl one with Bears. Yeah. Go watch it here. You did Tuna Bowl one with who? With Bears in the area. Oh, you know Bears?

You know, Bears was my, he was my guy. Yeah, and then Bill took him from you. Yeah, Bill took him from me. So Bears started with Keyshawn. That's all. How was he back then? He was young. He was my age, basically. Yeah, Bill took them from me. So, Barry started with Keyshawn. How was he back then? He was young. He was my age, basically.

But he worked hard. But he was my guy. If I went left, he went left. If I went right, he went right. You wanted to get me on Julian's show, you had to talk to him. He was with me at the press conferences. I was essentially training him for Belichick

the whole entire time. And he scooped his court on you. Yeah, no, but I told Bill to hire him because we all left at whole entire time. And he scooped and scored on you. Yeah, no, but he, but I told Bill to hire him when, cause we all left at the same time. So I'm like, this is who you need. Cause that press conference you had was horseshit with that note, you know, you better hire my dude. And so, oh shit, I forgot my train of thought

when I was about to say, oh, Tuna Bowl. So the Tuna Bowl, and I don't know if Belichick ever did this, so we're practicing and now practice is sloppy. He got so pissed. He snatched the call sheets and everything. He made all the players, I mean all the coaches get off the field. He made the fucking guy from the tower come down, stop taping, practices over. If you motherfuckers want to win and you want to stay out here and do the shit your fucking self, they start leaving.

The coaches leave him. He's upstairs in his little window. You can see him opening the curtain every now and then trying to see us. He want to see us when we're practicing because Vinny and B Cox, and they have the defense. Yeah, we got, yeah, yeah, the whole deal. The whole deal. The whole deal. Yeah, the whole deal. The whole deal.

And we made the film guys go back up and start film. So they watched the tape, you know, coaches with the bullshit. They watched the tape. I just was like, these motherfuckers. And we went up to Fox bro beat the shit out of Pete Carroll. Yeah, we beat them bad. Yeah, we beat them bad.

That was, I think, Tutable 2, I think. Yeah, it might've been Tutable 2. Yeah, the first one was close. You had a touchdown with the first one, I think. Like a last minute touchdown? Yeah, I hit the corner. I hit the Max Cafe XQ. I was the X on the Max Cafe at the deep, deep corner

in the back of the end zone on the left-hand side. I know my shit went through yesterday. With the overtime and there was some special team stuff. Yeah. Yeah. John Hall missed the field goal, the walk-off field goal. I loved John Hall, smoked that weed. That was my kicker. Hey, kicker?

Yeah, he was cool. He wasn't a kicker. He was a dude. Well, we had a couple of those guys too. No, he was a guy. He was one of our boys. You know what I'm saying? There's always one, there's always a kicker. He was a dude. Well, we had a couple of those guys too. No, he was a guy. He was one of our boys. You know what I'm saying? There's always one, there's always a kicker or punter

that can hang with the boys. And back in that day. They were probably hating more. Yeah, but you gotta think back in that day, he was so cool and he liked the black girls and he was a white kicker and he wanted to hang out with us cause he liked the black chicks. You know what I'm saying?

No, we don't care, but back in that day, you know, times have changed a chicks. You know what I'm saying? No, we don't care. But back in that day, you know, but times have changed a lot. You know? Hey, when you say once you go black, you never go back. Oh man. Oh man. Shout out John Hall. Shout out John Hall. Jay Heazy. But Bill was, Bill's been, this team, this is Bring Back Me. This is a fun team. All right. What a good group of dudes. Let's jump into the game All right We just got a little quote from Keishon here to foreshadow this thing week leading up to the game

Keishon said I want to be the guy on every play running catching blocking whatever and We saw that today in this game literally from Keishon with the stat line Insane comes out hot Vinny finds Keishon in that 21 yard scene right down the middle there touchdown John Hall then adds on a 52 yarder at the time the longest field goal in Jets playoff history Wow, a little fun fact for the special teamers there. I didn't know he'd a 52 yard They got up 10 nothing then we get to one of the wilder moments of the game Where's where Keishon's fumble recovery comes from Curtis Martin fumble weird to Chris Hudson returns the ball Tries to do a lateral on the run.

I'll play hustle play from Keishan tracks it down other side. Got to go get it covered that thing. Got to get mad whenever the ball was turned. You got to you got to chase in in, you know, in this situation. That was just me in general though. Right. I was I was on the other side of the field and I saw Curtis fumble and I just said, let me get on my horse. If they get slowing down, I'm gonna catch him.

They just got to make him slow it down. That's what happened. And then he wind up trying to lateral because I was in the right place at the right time and doing my job. This is what happens. That's what happens when you hustle. Amen. Right place. Don't give up on the play. It was one of the dumber moves I've seen that that lateral attack.

That was a bad lateral. No, it was. Because he's not used to on the play. It was one of the dumber moves I've seen that that lateral. That was a bad lateral. No, it was. Hey, I don't know. Cause he's not used to carrying the ball. Right. Did run catchers catch throwers throw. Did Parcells ever have drills for the defensive guys? Yeah, they always had like on how to carry the ball.

I don't know if they do that. Bill would show those plays and say, look asshole. like you're not, we're not doing this. Hey, if you're going to do this, it better be the last play of the game. And we need, you know what I mean? He's just fucking funny. Oh my gosh. I would hate to be in the film room with Bill after if I had done that lateral. Oh my God. No, it was crazy though. This crazy man. And this game was crazy too. Insane. That set up Keeshon's other touchdown,

the end of round, as we mentioned earlier. Is it F reverse? Are you F on that play? No, it was. Bunch right, toss 38, Gator, Z reverse left. The same fucking play? Yeah. That's incredible.

So we would change formationally, depending on personal. They started getting all that zip, zoom, snug bullshit later on. That shit, I had all that shit with Groot and punk ass. I had it. Zip is just basically, yeah, Taylor Z had got to come in to block.

Yeah, or come half, zip down. Because we would do that too. We would go bunch right, we would go bunch right, zip, toss 38 gators. So I would come and zip down and then come back around. Yeah. What's Groot like as a coach? We best get through this.

Anyways before the half we get up 17-0 here there's a little scuffle a little scuffle before the half you like to see that and play off football Jumbo Elliott and old Kevin Hardy they were getting into it. Jumbo was big man I don't know what type of offensive lineman you played with but he might have been one of the big he could walk through the door, man He was one of them type of dudes all-time name to so big Yeah, we had we had a couple we didn't we I had one really big who Trent Yeah, Trent Brown Trent Brown was a large human. He I think he was like six nine The jumbo was a large human but ripped up. Yeah, he had the little you know how we you had the V back in the day Yeah, that's what he had as a line and he had the V. It's like crazy We had a Nate soldier, yeah

I know Nate was really like he he was 315 pounds with a six-pack. Yeah, this is how jumbo was You know what I mean? So there's just like Jumbo was cool too. Big boned men. Jumbo was cool That was one of my coolest offensive line homies I had. Heck yes. It's so funny man. Before you mentioned the halftime, before the half, Jimmy Smith scored I believe.

Yes, 52 yard bomb. Six seconds left. Right as the half was almost over. So I was supposed to go in the game. Oh. To be the safety. To be the safety. Wow.

Barcelles and Belichick got into it. And it was the craziest shit we ever, I ever seen on the sideline between two coaches ever. Because Belichick didn't want to put me in. Parcells wanted to put me in. Belichick said no. And they went right up the rail. Bomb. Touchdown.

Then Parcells just lit his ass. Oh Oh my gosh, how was that relationship at that time? I thought it was fine. It's great now. They like Now but at that time I thought it was fine I didn't know the difference right he came back the next year, but that thing my eyeballs I was like cuz I'm standing there ready to to go in. Yeah, you know the situation. You know, and he's like, no. And Parcells told him, at this time, Parcells said something to the effect of,

you think you know every fucking thing, that's your fucking genius, huh? You think you know everything. That's why you fucking got fired from Cleveland. Yeah, that'll get it. That'll get the fumes going, shots fired. I was like this. Oh shit.

So when the situation came up again, I went in and got the interception. Yeah. That was the craziest thing. But I seen Bill do that to the coaches before. Parcell's the type of coach that goes for neck. Oh my God. He going for throat.

He's going to go for kill shot. Man. Just to try to light that fire in your ass. Kill shot. I watched Bill get at Charlie Weiss one time, because you know how you do the cards? Yeah. The cards wasn't in sync.

It was like all messed up. And at this time, Krispy Kreme donuts had just became a big thing came to the east coast of New York so we used to make all the younger guys go pick them up da da da da. Friday practice. Yeah whatever pick them up put them out da da da. And Charlie would come to the players lounge and get some.

We know Charlie likes some donuts. And he had messed up the cards one time and Bill said, I bet you if those were these fucking cards, or crispy cream donuts, you would have got that right. Jesus. He was like, oh shit. But that's how he was though. That's how he was. What's the worst thing he laid into you? When I was with the Jets though, he tried to think one time, he just, he would just say that am I coming to play? I'm a coming to the game. That wasn't smart that I shit like that He wasn't really never you know into me like that. But when I got to Dallas coming from Tampa We're playing the Cleveland Browns in the late Terry Glenn gets hit late

So I see it from a distance and I run over there and I kick the shit out of the dude from spearing him, kicked him. So I basically took four points off the board because he wanted to kick in the field goal 15 yard blah blah blah. So he's like, you know, that was stupid. I don't know what's gotten into you. Just you left the fucking Jets and that shit was stupid and da da, you know, just going off and off and off and I'm barking back at him cussing back at him cussing. And that was pretty much it. Then one time we up in Seattle, we're playing the Seahawks and I was playing okay. I had a good game, but I should have, I should have called a corner route for a touchdown,

but I didn't, I didn't jump enough aggressive enough I kind of just put my hands up and I'm gonna get it and so I go back to the sideline I'm kicking field goal he's talking shit whatever so I'm like I say well I don't have to play for you can fucking trade me I don't really give a fuck you can cut me whatever you want to and see how you'll see how this rest of this season go so you fight fire with more fire. So now, end of the game, I'll take the fucking ball off the dude's head

on a Vinny, I don't know, it might've been like a 40 yard throw touchdown, but I go and I just moss the dude. So after the game walk through, you can play with me anytime. I said, of course I can. You know, that's the type of shit, cause I was a shit talker, right?

We played it. He was just get, he knew how to push people's buttons to get them to work. I told you, so one time we playing Indy, and this is 99, we're playing in Indy. If we win, we're in. Testa Verde's hurt, Ray Lucas is in. So we go timeout, sideline.

They say, what do you want to do? They used to come to me for all, like a lot of plays. He come to me, go, what do you want to do? So man, I'm whatever y'all want to do. I think we should go for vert here, leave me inside, put Wayne outside of me. And then I think Charlie was like, no, no, put key outside, put Wayne in, in, in four, let's go half personnel, the bender, make him the bender.

They'll all run the key shot. Everything was perfect. Really. It was, it was a perfect call play. Everything was good, except Wayne couldn't get up to get it because it was just slightly above his hands. So the Paul ricochets off his hands, we lose the game, it's not his fault, whatever, right?

Going to the locker room, Bill's walking in, god damn it, fuck him, he's mad. There's a trash can, and the trash can is steel, it's not plastic. He kicks the fucking trash can, I think he broke his toe. So I go, I go to him. That's what you get. What'd he say?

He just looked at me. He used to do, man, we have, that's like a father to me. I talk to him four or five times a month. He kicks a thing. I go, that's what you get. You know, he just shakes his head, whatever. You know, but the things that I would do, like you said, fight fire with fire,

needle with needle, right? But I was the first one on the bus. I would be, he didn't know that I was like that till we played Buffalo. And I happened to be the first one on the bus taking his seat. You see what I'm saying? Up in Buffalo.

And he was like, he was shocked cause he was on the first bus that leaves super early. He couldn't believe that I was, cause he ain't never had nobody like that before. So he respect that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, he could be an asshole if you put your work in. Oh, he was an asshole.

I broke my ankle. No, but like you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could be who you could be if you put the work in. We in Dallas though, I break my ankle. No, but like you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who you could be if you put the work in. We in Dallas though, I break my ankle. I mean, we're, yeah, we play in the Dallas, we're in New York. I break my ankle last game of the season,

but I always, I needed a scope. This first time I ever been hurt. Had a half a million dollar incentive. I needed 22 yards more. I got, no, going into the game I needed 44. I got hurt in the first quarter. I hit a deep crosser on an Apache route, 22 yards, cleat, get caught, snap, right?

I'm in a locker room. I'm sitting on the thing. Fuck, he comes over. What's wrong with him? He goes, well, Bill, he broke his ankle. He goes, good, he can get surgery on both now. I'm like, this motherfucker. But just great though. It was cool was cool though. It was that's about

God. So you guys go in halftime. There's kind of some mixed emotions, clearly a blow up between the coaching staff. He just gave up a big ass touchdown. What are the vibes in the locker room? And we're just we're probably still feeling confident, but we just can't make mistakes. That was a mistake to let Jimmy Smith up the rail right before the half.

That was a big mistake on our part. Jackie, break down the second half. Second half, the Jags just would not go away. A Wayne Crabette fumble, a Vinnie interception in the end zone, a big run back, 88 yard run back on a kickoff, like just would not go away. This thing kept getting to like, it would get 17-0 and it was 24-0, then 31-14. Then it's a one score game, 31-24 with two and a half left. When Donovan Darius picked off Vinnie in the end zone,

like I mentioned earlier, but Keith Byers ran it out in the end zone, like I mentioned earlier, but Keith Byers ran it out of the end zone, got stopped on the one, bad field position, said a jet stopped him, ended up tacking on a field goal, so it's 34-24. That takes us to the end where a last ditch, Hail Mary try, Keishon's interception ends this thing. And the final score of 34-24. in this thing. What are the vibes like after you picked it in the game?

Well, they, uh, A.G. wanted it, but I stepped in front of him. Right? They're telling me the bad, I'm on bad shit there. If you can get it, you get it. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Fuck that. And so the vibes was cool. We celebrated, you know, it was fun, because most of the time, I hang with the defense.

Fuck that. I hang with the defense and so You know, I that was all my boys all the secondary dogs my guys we all hang together in the they knew I was go great Luke Ray Mickens and all the main new I was going things like this He go this one fuck go get a pit. So you're in team meeting that that Monday. Yeah, I'm that guy I'm like you're all in'm the guy. You rolling in, so. Yeah, I'm the guy. The best. Yeah, I'm like the best. You make a play that you're not supposed to, like that's not your,

cause when I threw a touchdown, I came in, I iced up my arm and shit. You know what I mean? You always do something. But Belichick wanted me to knock it down. Yeah. I ain't knocking, man, you shut up. You got a 10 point cushion, come on,

give me that pick. Fuck off, yeah. You know, I was, wasn't nobody here. I knew I was fine. I was going to get my pick. Hell yeah, you got to. And you guys go out, you was, when nobody, I knew I was fine. I was going to get my pick. Hell yeah. You got to. And you guys go out, you finish out a game. You get the first Jets playoff win in 12 years,

first playoff appearance in nine years. Your first game in the playoffs, you fucking ball out 120 yards, two touchdowns, one rushing, one passing, an interception. Fumble recovery. Fumble recovery. Insane. Insane game. What a game. What a do it all day. And we'd be remiss if we didn't mention at the time, this was the largest shutdown. Three. Three. Three. Three. After further review.

Oh man, it should have been three. Uh, we gotta mention this would go down as the largest crowd in pro football history at that point. 78,817. Bigger than the old Redskins Stadium? At this time. I used to have 100. At this time, that was always the biggest stadium when I was a kid.

Remember? I thought, yeah, I thought the Redskins Stadium, I don't know, maybe it was 77,000. Yeah. This seems shocking to me. That's crazy. It was so loud though. Oh my God, even on the tele That's crazy. It was so loud though.

Oh my God, even on the telecast, watching back. Oh, so loud. You could feel the vibration, you know. The fans were just, the fireman, the fans was just amazing. So when you go from people, your rookie year Edelman, see you never experienced this. What?

A guy wearing a bag over his head with drips of sadness with his eyes poked out, crying as a grown man. You never had to experience that. So I experienced that as a rookie. When I'm walking through the tunnel after the loss of the kai, you suck, you suck, takes it off. We wasted a number one pick on you, you suck. You know, grown ass man.

Sounds like Jet's fans. Jet fans. Sounds like Jet fan to me. Yeah, and then all of a sudden you go to this, and you got fireman Ed over here doing Yeah, that's something to cheer for now man that that had to be so fucked You know what? I hope the Jets turn it around here soon. I think it'd be good for the league Yeah, I think they will I think they'll be fine under Aaron Glynn. Hey, geez guys

He's there and there's a good dude to do it to a player for the team knows it last time They've actually really won, except when Sanchito was there and he beat us and went to the AFC championship twice. Key, have you talked to him since he took over? Uh-huh, I talked to him a couple times a week. Oh, heck yeah. Yeah.

That's sick. So what's the legacy of this game, Key Sean? Really, my first real experience in the playoffs. I mean, that's really it. That's how you are supposed to approach the postseason. You're supposed to approach it that way. That's the way I look at it. Hell yeah.

That's why I picked it, cause you know, college is like whatever, I'm a man of most boys in college. You know what I'm saying? That Rose Bowl game though. These dudes, I know, but I'm a man of most boys in college. It's too easy. Dude just left the fucking prom a week ago trying to cover me, right?

I'll be like, come on, right? I'll be like, think about it. Different than the pros. You got grown men with full beards with car seats in the back. In college, you got a dude that just left, literally left the prom in May. And he's starting his course on September.

Ain't no chance. Yeah, it's totally different. Ain't no chance. You have four or fifth year senior. This dude's a 17 year old dude. Eyeballs as big as saucers. It just, yeah. Cavs aren't even developed yet.

Oh my. Exactly. Oh man. Still trying to figure out how he'd get his first kiss. And we got to mention also in the aftermath of this, in the years that followed the near history, a pivotal moment in Jets and Patriots history. Bill Parcells would step down as Jets head coach in 99.

Bill Belichick would famously take over for a day. We all know the napkin, everything. Do you remember that one? I was there. How'd it go down? What's the inside? So I came back. Look, T-Shaw, I'm not taking this fucking job.

No, no, no, no. So I came back in the town. I had went out of town for like something and I came back and I went to the facility. I was working out of whatever and they like press conferences upstairs. I'm like, what's going on? I said, I think I think Bill's getting ready to retire. What the fuck you mean? So I go up to Parcell's office and he's there.

He's like, you know, some old bullshit or whatever. I'm like, oh, so now Bear's is taking me back down to the big room and I'm standing at the top of the auditorium or whatever, you know, the auditorium, yeah, team room. So he's there, I'm at the top on the wall just standing there looking. And here comes Belichick, up the other side,

he had like a sweatshirt on or some shit, he got the little napkin. And he's reading it and the media's there. And I'm like, what the fuck just happened? And so I'm talking to John Lott, the strength coach at the time, and he like, I think Bill, you know, this shit is, he ready to be the head coach.

I'm like, oh, okay, cool. I'm fucking with Belichick at this time. So I'm like, all right, cool. I didn't know. So now, the process is, well, Belichick doesn't want the job now. The fuck you mean, just took the job? No, he didn't take the job.

He didn't want the job. Damn, what we gon' do? So now at this point, it's all chaotic and crazy. Right, it's like, damn, we ain't got no coach. We ain't got this, we ain't got no coach. We ain't got this, we ain't got that. We ain't got no job. I'm trying to get a new check.

It's Friday. No, I'm trying to get a new check. Now I'm getting a new, you know what I'm saying? I came off back to back Pro Bow's. I'd have been the Pro Bow MVP when the Pro Bow was real, not t-shirts. Like I'm, you know what I'm saying? Trying to get cheddar.

I'm trying to get cheddared up. And at this point, I'm like, damn, what we gonna do? So the conversation was being had, and they just started, shit just went chaotic and crazy. Like literally, like people are like, no. Yeah, it went crazy. But I felt like we was in good hands with Belichick. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Because Belichick, at the time when they traded me, Belichick, if he'd have stayed the head coach, he wouldn't have traded me. He didn't understand why they, he was like, what the fucking way I'm trading him? But they wind up trading me, because Al Groh felt like he didn't need me.

He can just win with defense and mentality. But the crazy thing about it is Parcells became the president of the team. So he had full autonomy and authority to do what they wanted to. So he, Parcells is actually the person who traded me. Not Al Groh, not the owner, but he trades me to Tampa Bay. Right? Away from the division. Away from the division. He gets two number one picks, the whole deal, right? Because he originally

pitched me to go to Green Bay, but he knew I didn't want to go to Green Bay. He knew I wouldn't want to fucking Green Bay. He knew that and I wasn't going to fucking Baltimore. Baltimore had the fourth pick and Green Bay had somewhere in the air, but he, oh, you can go play with four. I'm like, you know I ain't going to fucking Green Bay. I'm coming out of New York. So he trades me at Tampa Bay

with the notion that he's getting ready to be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach. Ain't that a bitch? He thought he was going to be the coach? He was going to be the coach. He turned it down. He accepted it and then turned it down. I didn't hear about that.

Yeah. So here's how the story went. Here's how it went. I arrive in Tampa. They trade me for two ones. I go to Tampa. I do a little trade deal, whatever. Get the bank, get the bag and whole shit.

Right? Now Tampa Bay's, we're struggling to win. We're not winning, we're not winning, we're not winning. We get to the playoffs, we lose. We get to the playoffs, we lose. So now they get ready to fire Dungey. Yeah. Bill, the whole time, was eyeing the Tampa Bay job

when he retired. Good place to retire. But he had already left them at the altar several years later before he took the New England Patriot job. He had left the owners of the Buccaneers at the altar several years later before he took the New England Patriot job. He had left the owners of the Buccaneers at the altar already once. It did, he did the shit the second time after taking the job. He hired the staff and everything.

It did decide it. Nah, I don't want to do it anymore. I don't, I'm just, but the staff was already in place in Tampa. So now you move to the John Gruden era. That's how we wind up getting Gruden, is because we was left without a coach because Bill was supposed to take the job and didn't take the job.

And they traded for Gruden. And then they had to find a coach, they went and got Gruden. That's how we wind up with Gruden. But the staff was already in place. So it was the same, it was a parcel staff under Gruden? It was a parcel staff to a degree under Gruden, except the defense was all Tony Dungy and Monty Kiffin now. There you go.

The defense was done, it was gonna be Kiffin. Tampa too. It was gonna be the Tampa too suit. Offensive was Bill Murr, our offensive line coach from Jets. Tannenbaum was gonna be the general manager, which was our guy at Jets. Receiver coach was Richard Mann, which was which was our guy at Jets. Receiver coach was Richard

Mann, which was my receiver coach at the Jets. Right? It was all like whatever didn't go, whatever didn't go to New England was in Tampa. And then Bill was like, I ain't doing it. Fucking parcels. I'm gonna have to ask him about that. I'm going to see him here soon. Yeah. You're both going to get into the Patriot Hall of Fame together. Yeah. And when he was driving, he was supposed to be, I don't remember what day it was, but he was driving to Florida and I was anticipating him being there because Tanabom had already came and, you know, looked at everything and scoped it all out and did the whole deal.

For the changes. He calls me and he goes, I'm not doing it. What the fuck do you mean you're not doing it? I'm not gonna take it. I think something happened to his brother. His brother got sick or something. He just was like, I don't want to do it right now. But then the next year he winds up going to Dallas. Ain't that a bitch. That's wild. And then he trades for me from Tampa to Dallas. He just loved you. I did everything he wanted me to do though. You know how that goes. It's because you became the guy that was in the Rose Bowl. I was a Parcells guy.

You're a Parcells guy. 208, baby. 225, I need you to the Rose Bowl guy. 208, coach. I'm there. Yeah, I'm there. I'm good. Let's score the game. I'm the teacher's pet. Park that car in the garage. We'll be right back after this quick break. Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with

Holly Frye and Maria Tramarchi, hosts of criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrer's, known as the Wicked Lady, who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well-mannered or faked it.

People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, hello, Malcolm Gladwell here. On this season of Revisionist History, we're going where no podcast has ever gone before. In combination with my three-year-old, we defend the show that everyone else hates. I'm talking, of course, about Paw Patrol.

There's some things that really piss me off when it comes to Paw Patrol. It's pretty simple. It sucks. If my son watches Paw Patrol, I hate it. Everyone hates it, except for me. Plus, we investigate everything from why American sirens are so invariably loud, to the impact of face blindness

on social connection, to the secret behind Thomas's English muffins, perfect nooks and crannies. And also, we go after Joe Rogan. Are you ready, Joe? I'm coming for you. You won't want to miss it. Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams, and bestselling author and meat eater founder, Stephen Ronella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say

when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good

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Let's score the game and name the game. Let's name the game. We have Key Sean's big day. Welcome to NY. The Jack Jets over the Jags. The Keyshawn Johnson game. The madness in the Meadowlands. The Keyshawn does it all game. Which one do you want to pick Keyshawn? I'll probably go madness in the Meadowlands.

Madness at the Meadowlands. At the Meadowlands, yeah. Score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Keyshawn stakes 0 to 10 of this divisional round game Decimals, okay, you got a greatest of all time 10 being the big the fucking most important thing ever zero being I would say at this time the most important thing ever because of the Jets Honestly visual round I'm gonna go eight. Winner go home, winner go home.

Eight point six. Eight point one. Star power of this game, people that are at the stadium, players, coaches. What was the star power of this game? Zero to 10, decimals okay. I would probably say a nine. Nine?

Yeah. Show me coaching staffs a lot. A lot of future head coaches. We even talk about Scott Frost. A lot of future head coaches in this. Scott Frost Scott Frost, a lot of future head coaches in this. Scott Frost. I'm going to go with the Frosty. We used to fuck with him all the time because this is when he got in trouble with Lawrence

Phillips and stuff. We used to tease him all the time. Like you scared the shit out of him. Lawrence Phillips is going to kick your ass. I'll give it a 8.8. Got a 7.9. Out of 8.4. Gameplay of the game.

How the game went. I mean give it a 8.8. Got a 7.9. 8.4. Gameplay of the game. How the game went. I mean it was back and forth. A lot of big plays. A lot of turnovers. Exciting football. I would say a 7. Good score. I like that. I'm gonna go...

I'm gonna go 7.5. I had a 6.8. I had a 7.1. We're all in the same area. Yeah, man. And now we score the name of the game, the Madness at the Meadowlands, zero to 10 decimals okay. Oh, that's a 10. 10.

Madness at the Meadowlands. Loud, they ain't never seen nothing like this. Some of them people in the stands ain't seen the Jets win a playoff game in 100 years. Yeah, that's probably true. I'm gonna go eight. I'm right mid. Where does this stack up?

Oh, I had a 5.0. I had a 4.9. Where does this stack up? Let's find out. Let's see. Calculating. It's a 7.82. 7.82 so that puts us at the new 45th slot just behind the

2001 2021 SEC Championship game, Georgia versus Alabama and just above the 1985 week 13 Bears versus Dolphins Monday night football game There's versus the game. I don't remember that game That was the game that was the only defeat the Bears had in 1985. Yeah, I just don't remember that game. That was the game. That was the only defeat the Bears had in 1985. Yeah, I just don't remember the game. Well, you know, all the the Dolphins guys always taking the champagne. Twenty twenty one. I remember that championship game. That was a freaking crazy game. Nobody is boring. People got tired of watching that game.

Yeah, I know. Alabama, Georgia, Alabama, Georgia. Keishon, we miss anything on this game? No, I don't think so. Dude, you gave us some great stories. That was awesome insight perspective. It's cool. Yeah. Fuck it had a blast. Everyone go check them out on speak on FS one weekdays at five p.m.

Follow them on all the social platforms, Instagram and X at Keyshawn. And thank you, bro, for coming on. Oh, yes. Good. I have to break. That's right. platforms Instagram and X at Keyshawn and thank you bro for coming on. Oh yeah that's good. I have fun man anytime. That's right. All Facts No Breaks podcast check it out fire. And you gotta let me know when I'm on. No yeah speaking of that All Facts No Breaks we're actually doing a this summer we're gonna release the legends of LA so what I've done is I've gone around the city of LA, whether it was athletes, entertainment, whatever the case is, anywhere from NWA, you know, to Paul Pierce, Baron Davis, to Shawn

Jackson, people that's from Southern California that really took it to the next level of interviewing them in different sequences. And we put it all together. So we rolled it out. It's like a seven part series documentary style. That's awesome. That's fucking awesome. That's rolled it out. It's like a seven part series documentary style. It's pretty cool. That's a great idea. What's it called? It's going to be All Facts No Breaks, but it's All Facts No Breaks LA Legends.

Okay. Yeah. Wow. I can't wait to see that. Like I interviewed like Ice Cube. Hell yeah. We're looking to get them on the show real soon. Just it's coming soon.

Who? Ice Cube. Cube? Yeah. We had Barry Davis on too. BD. BD's awesome. I went down over to Cube? Yeah. We've had Barry Davis on too. Yeah, BD. BD's awesome. I went down over to his little compound.

You been over there? Uh-huh. It's sick. We had those, he's dead. Yeah, I grew up with all them dudes. Like everybody from LA basically. Shit, I grew up with. That's fucking great class to be out, man.

LA, they show out. They show out. Thank you for coming on. Oh yeah, no problem. Man, Keyshawn's pro. That might have been, Sneaky, one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. Yeah.

Just like knew the assignment, knew the thing, picked a great fucking game, great stories, great era, let it rip. Keyshawn sees everything too, because after the show came up to me and says, your dad's still mad at me. I think my dad called into a talk radio once about Keyshawn's opinion on something. Don't know for a fact, but really bad.

Keyshawn's like, your dad all right? I tried looking that up, I couldn't find anything. I couldn't either, regardless. Like, completely different person when you meet him. You understand him way more. Seriously, he's one of those guys we look at media and he's like in that like. But that's his WWE character.

Even when he was playing like the DVY receiver but then you just learn like how much Parcells respected him and they had the thing you know that he's a fucking grinder. He's a grinder. Blocking, he emphasized that. You know the hustle play in the game. It was a fun interview to get to know Keyshawn,

because yeah, we all know what Keyshawn is on TV, but he ain't really like that, I guess. But he is, but he's not, but you understand why. Yeah, completely. And it was really cool from me and Jack's perspective to see like you guys like long lost cousins, like having played in the same offense full same offense Yeah going in talking about the Charlie Weiss system and how it evolved when you know

Big Daniels got it to Billy Oh, then you know when he left like we were speaking the same languages It's fun, but I could we we we changed a lot of the language The older I got. That's like the old, like he was talking OPEC and shit. That was like when I first got there in like nine, then we never used OPEC after like five years again. Yeah. Well, it's time for the Chill Zone brought to you

by Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit CoorsLight.com slash GWN. Celebrate responsibly. I tried to harmonize with you on that. So for this week's chill zone, trying out a new segment a couple of episodes ago, You talked in depth recently about What it's like to just in the weeds nitty-gritty beat-by-beat details of what it's like traveling for an NFL away game

So a lot of people been in the comments. They really like that a lot of positive Feedback about that. So we're trying to do a segment where I just want you to go super deep into a specific NFL insider conversation So a lot of the comments have been suggesting you talked about Brock Purdy. Um, just signing that big deal Just people want to know a little bit more information in depth about what contracts are like in the nfl and what contract negotiations going so Uh high level give us what contract negotiations are like in the nfl well contracts Give us what contract negotiations are like in the NFL. Well, contracts, well, contract negotiations in the NFL and contract negotiations I had with the New England Patriots are completely different as I look at it.

And they've also changed, which rightfully they should. It's been way more player friendly. rightfully they should. You know it's been way more player friendly. I've never like I can remember when I got hurt in 2012 the Patriots offered me a contract before the season to sign that I thought like that's not if I and I won the starting job going into that year. They they they so they were trying to lock me in for like some league minimum deal with like a weak signing bonus Which I was like I'm going I would either go to free agency. So we played out the year and I broke my foot and

Then I broke I broke my hand. I missed a couple games. I bowled out I had a three I had three games where I was balling and then I broke my my foot and so It got to a sudden halt so I went I remember going back after that and I was sitting there thinking I was like man oh at least I'm gonna get that shitty little contract they offered me you know which it'll still be a pay raise you know and you know I remember going back to the negotiations and they said that's how we felt then this is how we feel now and it was a completely different number with a lot less money because I was hurt Which I understood that now nowadays guys tear their ACLs and they're getting paid the biggest contract in the history of the game

Which that was never like that At least where I was at, you know, they they always they would always say we're I remember just vividly You know when you're negotiating with them, they're saying, we're not paying you for what you've done, we're paying you for what we project you to do. And that's where the differences are in different organizations. I wish it was different, I wish I got it other way,

like other guys, but with the Brock Purdy contract. When renegotiations starts, like if you start performing outside of your, like what they're paying you for, they're paying you to project and you start performing outside of that, what does that look like from a negotiation standpoint? Renegotiations standpoint.

Well, it usually, you know, every time I signed a contract, I like balled out the first, like I feel like I outplayed that contract that year. But I would have like three years, like we never went back to the table until the last year of your deal. Now it's changed a little bit because of, you know, guys want to lock guys in before the market gets too high, this, that, the other. And they, and guys try to, you know, teams and guys want security. And so sometimes you see guys getting renegotiated with two three years a rip up a contract like that wasn't really we weren't I wasn't a guy that ever dealt with that with Brock

Purdy being a seventh round draft pick you know that's something also that I think is a key figure in this deal I always felt if I was a third or a second round draft pick and I had the same production after my first or my second contract that I would have got more money. I think you know Brock kind of surpassed that. Yeah he took a little less. What is it 53? 53 for 5. But what is it, what's his guaranteed? Guaranteed money. Well that's something I wanted to ask you about too, is what's the difference between guaranteed

and total contract value? So we'll see his guaranteed money. 180, it's six year, five years, including this. Five year, 265 contract extension. How many years do you have on his deal still? This one, so he has one year. So this will go through 2020 or 2030, and he's got 181 million in guarantee

with a full no trade clause. Has been reported. So 181 million over the six years. So what's 180 divided into four? It's 45.25. So that's what that is. He's really, of real money, that's what that is. He's really of real money. That's how I used to look at it.

It's 181 divided by either, you know, whatever that number is, a couple years shorter than the contract because that's kind of like they're out, which that's pretty cheap if you think about it. You know, now I have opportunity to earn more money. So what is that? That's like incentives?

That could be built in escalators, meaning like he has to, like I had a built in escalator in my contract where I would make like a million bucks more or 500 grand more if I had my, at that time my high was 105 catches. So if I got to like 90 catches, a thousand yards, and either six touchdowns,

like I had to get three of that, and then, or we went to the Superbowl, so I could have three of those, and I would get that money. There's incentives. So like that's also like incentives and escalators are kind of in the same boat. I don't know the actual differences.

I'm not a cap guy, but same thing. Like if you have, like for Brock Purdy, if you play a certain amount of percentage of the year, you'll get an extra two, five million dollars. But a lot of this, what people don't realize, these roster bonuses that are in, they used to give us roster bonuses. So what is that?

So the roster bonus is actually in the guaranteed money. So they'll say, here's your roster bonus of, for me, I think it was like a million five or something. I don't know my numbers. You guys will probably be able to look that up. But I had a roster bonus. That goes into your guarantee money, but it ain't guaranteed.

You have to be on the active day roster to get that money. So whatever that was, so say it's a million bucks, divide that by 17. How many is that? Let's just say it's 1.7 divide that by 17 how many is that let's just say it's 1.7 1.7 so 100k you get a 100k a game but say I got hurt and I didn't play in three games I wouldn't I wouldn't collect those those three check comes out of guaranteed that comes out of your guaranteed money so you got to look into like what his guaranteed money is there's a lot of ways of you know also the guaranteed money could be like you have to be workout bonuses.

And what's a workout? Workout bonuses. You have to be at 80% of the off season program in order to collect that money. It kind of incentivizes guys to stay around the team. So that's the non mandatory workout. Non mandatory. You have to hit 80%. Okay, cool. Okay. Interesting. So it is kind of mandatory if you want to hit a certain amount of threshold for your money.

Well, if you want to make your money. Okay. There's also like, and then also like for linemen or big defense linemen, like their weight could be, you know, negotiated in as a incentive. If this, or, you know, if he breaks over this, you know, they could technically take that money away so there's a bunch of stuff in that guaranteed money which isn't always guaranteed so Brock Purdy I'm sure it

went down where he he outplayed his contract as a seventh rounder you know the first few years so it was a tough situation to be in because he still had a bunch of years on this deal and you still wanted to see if it would be able you know to continue doing it. Yeah. But you know he got paid. I mean he didn't get the the 60. He got a five there. That's what everyone thinks. But really if you think about it it's like four year 45. Why only four versus five? Because you could divide it. It's more of like, what is 181 divided by five? It's 36.2. I don't know why, I'd always just take off those two years

and that's usually kind of how I thought about it. Because the last year is some kind of bullshit. You're either going to get restructured, renegotiated. You're probably going to get restructured going into those. Or cut, depending on your situation. Yeah, depending. I don't know all his his incentives for that extra What is it? 260?

The total contract. Yeah, 265 so 265 so what's what's what's the difference between 84 million? 84 million. Yeah, so that's all the incentives roster bonuses what have you that could be incentives that could be roster bonus I haven't looked at the details of the contract. I don't think they're fully out yet either. That could be anything from like, hey, they could negotiate. If he gets MVP, he could get a $5 million in bonus. Pro bowls, MVPs, all pros. You get a statistical.

Yeah, anything statistical. And those stats can go crazy. It could be playing time, it could be completion percentage, it could be touchdowns. I mean whatever you want to negotiate or they want to negotiate it's just a way for you to try to collect more of that money. Have you ever heard any like weird incentives? Something like stuck out like oh that was unusual or very specific to a certain player? You know the weight ones are always kind of weird to me. Yeah. But it's you know these big boys during the season

Now would there be players that maybe are I know that you're not like a GM and you're not in the cap But just from what you've seen and heard or experienced Players that maybe would have been injury prone or perceived to be injury prone having higher like roster bonuses Well, that's what the Patriots used to do a lot Yeah, and then also that what they can do is they could put a split in your contract What is that? Uh, it's usually it was always in all the Patriots rookie deals

Where it was like non-negotiable split is if you uh, if you get hurt, you only make half your salary Oh, wow. Okay So separate from even roster bonus separate from everything if you're like if you take your ACL in the first snap of preseason No, not your guarantee money, but like all your other money. Yeah, you only get half. They split it That's and that's just non-negotiable inside of every single what's negotiable in in the contract But yeah, it was not negotiable for us. Gotcha and something that I think has a lot of People ask a lot of questions about but how does signing bonus work? So signing bonus whatever it could be divided so that say Brock got off What is it was deciding but maybe fifty million dollars say?

176 million in guarantee 170 over his first four He perceived 62 percent of his money in the first three years. So look at see I said four years Yeah 62% of his money in the first few years. So look at, see how I said four years? Yeah. So 170 over resource four, that means there's only an additional what, nine, $10 million for that next. So you could, you would cut, you know what I mean? Yeah, and part of that's playing games with the cap too. Probably, I'm not a cap guy. Yeah.

But yeah, usually they divide the signing bonus by, that's why they'll make big signing bonuses because they can prorate that and divide that over the length of your contract towards the cap. Okay, signing bonuses go against cap too? Yeah, it's less, it's like less, that's how they can make the money down.

That's why they'll renegotiate and give guys a bunch of money in the signing bonus because then you can prorate it throughout the duration of the contract. Okay, and then from like... But let's go back to, wait, we were talking about signing bonus. Yeah.

Signing bonus, it's not like, depending on team. Okay. Say it's Brock Purdy's $50 million sign, they could divide that over three for the owner, you know, say it's, so on signing day, they'll give them 20 million, and then in October they can give them 10 million, and then the next following year, they can give them another 10.

Now you do that for tax reasonings, I don't know. But the owner can do that, because sometimes they just don't want to give you all that money right away. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. And then so functionally, you sign a contract, you get your pro rated signing bonus, maybe it's half or a third or whatever. Is that just a check or is that like going into your like pay system? How does that actually? So

a lot of guys have direct deposit. We didn't actually have that choice until like the third or fourth year of my year. Really? Third, my second year. We just get a check at the cash. You get a check that you'd have to cash, which is, you know, if guys didn't cash a check, that means the owner's kept that money in that pot, and they can earn interest on that bitch. Yeah. So that's why you go to direct deposit,

you get that money right away. So you're like rolling up your rookie year, rolling up with a check. The crazy thing is, out of that 20 million that he's gonna get, he's gonna get that check, and it's only gonna be about 12, 11. Taxes and all that shit. Taxes. And then you gotta pay the agent,

whatever his agent fee is, usually three can be negotiated down, but it's usually 3%. So, you know, it's a lot. So that's how you get the signing bonus. All this other stuff, roster bonus, you know, incentives. So then there could be other stuff. You have a roster bonus. That's another divided. So then there could be other stuff. You have a roster bonus.

That's another way of them to giving you a million, you know, during the season or guaranteed 2 million, 5 million, 10, whatever that is, they can give you through the season. Then they can give you the workout bonus, which is also guaranteed money in the guaranteed money thing. But that also, you know, incentivize you to be around the facility.

You gotta be at the off season, you know, all that stuff. So then what's in the game check? Game check is the offseason, you know, all that stuff. So then what's in the game check? Game check is the additional salary that you have to make, divided into set 18 weeks and you get paid every first 15th. And you don't get any additional money for playoffs, right? You do get additional money, but it's technically we're getting blown out as players because we're playing for less. So now you get an additional, so like when I was playing for the first round, you would get an additional like 20 grand, 25 grand to the winner,

20 grand to the loser, and the next round you get like an additional 30 grand. But then like we would get the first round by have to do all the same amount of work and not get paid Because the by you don't get paid you don't get paid during the by you only get paid during the game Wow, and it was really 20 grand and at that time I was making like a hundred grand a game Through my contract so you're putting in the same amount of work for way less money and The league is benefiting crazy through the playoffs with the ratings and everything.

So how much total are you making? So the total you make, if you won the Super Bowl, it'd be like 180 grand. And that's if you don't have any of the escalators, any of the bonuses. No, that's just all new money coming from the league. The 53rd man on the roster makes that money if you go to the Super Bowl.

The 53rd and maybe I think even the practice squad, everyone in the organization does, I think. So making a Super Bowl. It's a big thing for the trainers and the coaches. It's huge, it's great. But on the scale of like- The top dogs are taking huge pay cuts to play in the playoffs. Tom Brady usually gets $2 million a fucking game. Yeah. He's working wherever it is. You know what I mean? He's getting paid 50 million dollars a year

He's gonna go play for 20 20 20 grand 30. It's probably like 50 grand now Yeah, but they're gonna pay the same as the long snapper as the court same as long snapper, which it's additional money You never want to be you want to be thankful? But you know the work you put in it we're talking workplace here I mean the stress levels are even higher right the work is you're putting in way more work during the playoffs because you're just that more much that much more invested like time everything heightened motion and theened. Yeah. The motion. And the cost for commercials go way up too. A lot more money being generated.

Lot of money generated. But you know, congratulations to Brock, man. That's cool seeing a seventh round guy get a big payday, regardless of what you think he deserves or doesn't. As a former player, you always like seeing guys get paid. Especially a guy that went his route, which I was a seventh round guy, he's a seventh round guy. Now he's making $54 million a year.

Not bad. Not bad for Mr. Roeven. Not even a one star, not a zero star first pick overall. I'm a story guy, like the story. Now is the team gonna be good? Don't know, don't know. But if you think about it for the Niners, they'll have to eat a bunch of this

for these next couple years, which they're kind of rebuilding right now. And if you look at Brock's contract in two years, it's gonna be cheap. It's kind of like the Daniel Jones shit. Like everyone was like, Daniel's making 30 million dollars. What the, well, all right.

In two years, the next guy was making 50. Yeah, the lessons learned, if there's ever a guy who needs to get paid real money, pay him as soon as you can. Because it instantly becomes value. You know, he did take, he didn't take the top dogma, I don't know, you know what I mean? Yeah. And you think about Brock Purdy,

if you put yourself in his position, you're sitting there saying like, well, Dak Prescott, he's got one, one playoff win, maybe two, I think. I've taken a team to an AFC championship. We've gone to a Superbowl. We have playoff wins, you know, and that's what you really judge on the quarterback. How many wins he got? So you can see what he his side was arguing to get that money. And to to to win.

Yeah, you got to, you know, you could say the same thing for all the other big dog quarterbacks, you know, I think he's got more playoff wins in Borough. Borough did go to a Super Bowl. So did Brock. Yeah, right. You're right. You Burrow did go to a Super Bowl. So did Brock. Yeah, right, you're right. Brock went to the Super Bowl. You're right. Brock also went to an AFC or NFC championship

where he hurt his arm, remember? Yeah. So like, Brock's got some merit when you're talking about winning games now, regardless of what you want to say, how the team's going to be. Now, do you think if Purdy was a first round pick? or you know completely different he gets that if rake purdy was a first-round pick He probably would have got 68 million dollars. Yeah. He's one of those contracts that sets the sets the new standard for quarterbacks Yeah, yeah one last thing on this because I thought this was great

One time years ago ago I was at your house back in Foxboro and you were like going through some like junk mail and you just opened up like a check for like a couple hundred thousand dollars or something I think it was from Jerseys. What are some of the other ways that you get paid that aren't like endorsement deals? There's player performance so which is huge for guys that get like Brock, like set late round guys, undrafted guys, which they've changed it in this new CBA collecting and bargaining agreement.

But when I was there, if you were a seventh round guy and you were getting more playing, there was like a formula on playing time and plays per game that you would make a lot more money than if you were a first-round guy in this pool of money. They're like coming from like the NFL. Yeah coming from the NFL. I forgot where it comes from. We got to probably hit up Matthew Slater on that because he's the former rep for the PA. But yeah you get up there was a pool of money that they would have and it was a way to give guys that, you know, seventh round guy that was playing 80% of the snaps,

he could take, I remember like Devon Bess, when he was a receiver, he was making like two, three million dollars off that player performance because he was undrafted and he was balling out. And it's upwards of a few million? If you play a lot. Yeah. Yeah, like I don't know what it is now, but those were back when I was playing, and he was ballin' out. And it's upwards of a few million? If you play a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, I don't know what it is now, but those were back when I was playing. I think it changed a little. That was like a fund of something where they were pulling money in and they were distributed to the players. There's also other ways of earning money. Jersey sales? Jersey sales.

Like, so when you sign up for the PA, you're basically signing and giving away your name and likeness for the brand of players. So with that, you get a check. Everyone gets a check for like 10 grand for being in Madden or whatever it was at that time, or five grand. And then anything that's sold with your name on, you get a percentage of. So like that was after, you know,

I had a huge jersey sale year, they always give you like whatever it is, the cents on the dollar that you get for the, it could be like a half a cent, but you know, you collect money mugs, whatever they have, pictures, jerseys, whatever they have. With your name on it. With your name on it. This jersey, this jersey, anything with your name that has sold, you do get a cut, a baby sliver of that.

And that's all through the NFLPA. And I still get checks for that. I'll get like eight cent checks because like, there was like a hundred something of mine, or like something sold. Hell yeah. I'll get like an eight cent check from the PA. That's awesome.

It's like the actor's getting residual checks. That's awesome Cool. Is there any any other things we missed from just like things the average fan wouldn't know? Where money is coming in from from a contract perspective? Um, I mean there's probably more but once you guys ask us more questions detailed questions in the comment section and we can we can Get into it more. Oh, yeah. I'm not like Just fucking brainiac smart. Oh yeah back in that day I remember doing that. Like you know who we should have we should have we should bring in Matthew Slater and do like a rules and regulation podcast for the NFL.

I love that. Let's let's do, because Bill used to sit us down, like, every year in training camp, the first night of training camp, we'd go over all the rules. Nothing like you can light on fire in team hotels. If anything lights on fire in the team hotel, it could be conduct detrimental. It was basically explaining all the rules

that could take away your money. If you're fat and overweight, you get, you get, you get, you get you know you'd be like it's 600 pounds per day per pound per day per pound per day whatever it's probably like a thousand bucks now used to be when I first got it like four or three hundred and eighty then it got up to like six hundred you know the more money you make the more they can take they could take your money through fines on, you know, uniform infringement. I used to get fined all the time if my knee pads were higher

and my skin was showing and my socks didn't go up, you would get fined for that or certain pads you could get if you didn't have your thigh pads, a certain, when I first played, you didn't have to have thigh or knee pads. And they put that in where you get fined if you didn't have that. I didn't wear them for like my first two years. You can get fined for the length of your towel.

You can get fined for you know other like non-NFL issued attire on the sideline. Technically you can get fined. You know so if you're like promoting like your own brand that's not associated with the NFL you could get fined Like certain celebrations fine Well, we should save that for another one of these segments find a fine One of these segments would be great. I think it's a great segue to to be like hey fans audience comment what detailed types of explanation of an inside NFL information would you like because This is a fun segment

so when I when I when I scored that touchdown to break the record for the Patriots over total punt returns I Threw the ball into the crowd I hooked it up in there and I got fine like hello money because you're not allowed to throw the ball in the crowd because It could create a riot But if you hand the ball, it's okay You can't throw the ball, but you can't hand the ball, but you can't find like hella money because you're not allowed to throw the ball in the crowd because it could create a riot. But if you hand the ball, it's okay. You can't throw the ball. You can hand the ball, but you can't throw the ball.

But will they charge you for the cost of the Duke if you hand them the ball? No, oh yeah, you have to pay for the Duke anytime you take the Duke, I think. That's payroll deduct. So like everything is payroll deduct. Nothing is free, by the way. Did you have to pay for these balls?

In the NFL, those tickets, payroll deduct. If you broke something in the gut, if you broke the weight room, payroll deduct. Nothing is free by the way. Did you have to pay for these? Those tickets, payroll deduct. If you broke something in the gut, if you broke the weight room, payroll deduct. If you broke something, payroll deduct. They take that money as much as they give it. Did you give them the jerseys away you get paid for that? Did you have to pay for these? Anytime you give Jersey swap you're paying like $400, $250 for that. What about like a sentimental ball? Like a touchdown that you keep? I don't that and you pay for that. I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me if it's payroll deduct. No, is that just your organization or was that? I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know. We'll have to ask that when we have some other people. Yeah, but I threw it up in the crowd. I remember, I used to have to go to these hearings and Merton Hanks was always the fucking fine hearing and I used to try to butter him up every single time. Came and talked to me in high school.

Loved his little neck thing he used to do, right? He's a fucking San Francisco 49er. I'd always butter him up every time. He would never fucking reduce my money. I think he reduced it once. My agent, we got that one reduced because it was like military service day and my agent, Dubes, is like,

Joyn was really throwing it to a Navy guy that he saw and it's like literally like 200 yards up. Well, they saw your college tape. So they knew it wasn't going there, but we did get that reduced. So thank you, Mr. Hanks. Oh yeah. All right. Well, that was, that was a great seven. We'll do that more. That was awesome. That was fun. And that's the chill zone. Thanks to our favorite beer Coors Light, get Coors Light delivered straight to your door, visit CoorsLight.com slash G W N and celebrate responsibly. Well, what a game. What a segment.

Thanks again to Keyshawn. That's another episode of games with names. Subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, comment a game you want us to do. And remember, leave us a five star review on Spotify while you're there. Remember to follow games with names on YouTube, Instagram, X, TikTok and Snapchat. TikTok still there? Yes.

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