Games with Names - “2009 Western Conference Finals” with Kenyon Martin | Nuggets vs. Lakers

Episode Date: November 22, 2022

On today’s episode we’re talking 2009 Western Conference Finals Game 2 between the Lakers and Nuggets. We check out the world in 2009 (7:14). We break down the teams and the 2009 NBA season (20:34). Kenyon Martin joins the show to talk about those star studded Nuggets teams, facing off against Kobe in the conference finals, being an NBA tough guy, and a whole lot more (37:26). Jules & Sam dive into the legacy of this game and give it a score (1:22:45).Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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May 21st, 2009. Staples Center, Los Angeles, California. In a city known for its glitz and glamour, it was the Denver Nuggets that shined the brightest. This is Game 2, the 2009 Western Conference Finals. Hello, welcome to Games with Names, presented by Winbet.

I'm Sam Morrell. And I'm Julian edelman and we are on a search to find the greatest games of all time and on today's episode we're talking about the 2009 western conference finals game two lakers burst the nuggets and i swear this isn't a podcast that hates the lakers but maybe kind of hate the Lakers a little. But we like Jeannie Bussey because we're Jeannie Bussey fans. But we both don't like the Lakers because it's LA, but we

like Jeannie Bussey. And also the Lakers are the benchmark. They're a huge Lakers and Celtics are the number one franchises win-wise in the NBA. We got to trash them a little bit. That's called a measuring stick team. Every time you play them, you pull out the measuring stick. Later today, we'll be joined by Kenyon Martin.

Can't wait. We'll check in what was going on in the world in May of 2009. We'll take a look back at both these teams, and we'll wrap up by naming the game and scoring the game. But follow Games With Names on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, at Games With Names is the handle. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Rate and review and leave a comment.

We want to hear from you. Why are we doing this match? I mean, this was a pretty cool game this was a cool series this is as high as the nuggets have really flown in my lifetime i can't think of like because i grew up then i guess they had that big upset on the uh on the one seed sonics in the 90s but you don't think of them as having like a cool now they have a cool team with yokokic, but like, yeah, this was,

I think the toughest team they've had. Yeah. I mean, they had Chauncey Billups, Kenyon Martin, and you, you always forget how good, what's his name?

Carmelo. Carmelo. You always forget his name. I always forget his name. No, he was, he was generational talent. In his prime,

Melo was un-freaking-guardable. He couldn forget his name. No, he was generational talent. In his prime, Mello was unfreaking guardable. He couldn't be stopped. You know, even in the game, in-game interview, he said no one in the world could stop him, five-team. I loved it. He didn't care. And you saw it throughout the game. In those baby blue, sweet, silky-looking Nuggets unis. Can you call it a Carolina blue?

Is it a Carolina blue? It might be even more powdery blue. Is it more powdery blue than the Carolina blue? I'll have to do a color palette check, but George Carl is a Carolina guy, so he'd probably say yes. George Carl coaches team. A lot of the players have trashed him. We got to ask Kmart about that later,

but Kmart was on one of those sports shows being like he sucked he's an asshole i wonder if it was just tough i wonder if he was just a tough coach to play for you know what i mean those 90s coaches like guys like george carl jerry sloan you know they let some slurs fly there's no way they weren't you're like they they've definitely i mean look that's allegedly allegedly we don't have any're like, they've definitely, I mean, look, that's allegedly. Allegedly. We don't have any proof on this. It's just a vibe I get.

If I met George Carr, I'd be like, did you say the N word? Maybe a couple times. Was that the problem? There's something hard-nosed about him. He definitely did not seem like a player's coach. No, but this was an era where coaches were coaches and players were players. Yeah. And it's all been miscued because of how Phil Jackson was

with his Zen mentality because he always had the best teams that had to, you know, get all these superstars to play well together. But most other teams were trying to beat Phil Jackson-type teams. That's a great point. Phil Jackson, you picture him giving you like a Navajo-like feather. He's like, this is from Runs With Bull. And and then you know george carl's like run pussy that was the two different vibes phil jackson seemed like he'd be fun to play with but he also you know what phil jackson feels like he would do he feel like he would give you like a book and if you didn't read

it like the next day he'd be like dude i gave you a book yeah he had that energy full mr miyagi vibes i don't know why the bonsai tree just came up in my head uh thinking about that you know these little kind of weird tedious drills to build team chemistry but you know screw the lakers right now we're here to talk about the denver nuggets yeah and this team that had a shot and won this game too they lost this series in six but they won this game and it was a tough matchup honestly for the lakers this was they the lakers went on to win the championship for one they beat the orlando magic uh kobe howard yeah dwight howard yeah turkalu that was a fun Magic team. This was a tough Lakers team to beat.

It was, but I think this was their toughest matchup in the playoff. Yeah. I think this was the team that pushed them. But yeah, the Lakers were just destined to win. It was one of those, this is the championship. If we win this, we got the ship. No doubt. And they had just come off that loss to the Celtics the year before.

So it's like Kobebe was like i'm fucking winning kobe this was kobe's first ring without shack they had andrew bynum young uh andrew bynum lamar odom paul gasol obviously uh you know all these good role players like derrick fisher uh you know who is the guy you could jump out of the building shannon brown yep shannon brown jewish jordan farmer my main jew from ucla farmer ucla uh luke walton luke walton from arizona and future head coach of the lakers luke walton yeah shout out even though you don't like his dad he just criticizes the knicks too much you just don't like his his dad. I think he's fun. He is fun. It's like going down a crazy trip listening to him at like 12 o'clock at night from the East Coast doing a Pac-12 basketball game. If a person were Ty Dye.

100%. He's a fun vibe. God, I hope we can get him on the pod one day. He'd be good. My dream guest, I think. Yeah? I think. A lot of games.

We'd have to do a Blazers game, though, probably. Blazers or UCLA? can get him on the pod one day he'd be good i think yeah i think a lot of games that you we'd have to do a blazers game though probably when they weren't or ucla ucla john wooden memphis he was like almost perfect the pyramid of success yeah i'm just i don't give a shit about college ball if you're if you're on time you're late five minutes before the meeting if we're doing college ball it's because one of you these guys us. It's because Kyler's like, come on. I know Jack fucking loves college ball. Davison. I don't give a shit. I'm a pros guy, dude.

You know, real cities love pro sports. Big city. Real big cities like pro sports. Yeah. What's going on in May 21st, 2009? Number one movie, Terminator Salvation? I never saw this. Yeah, it was weird it was too

sci it was like almost too sci-fi for me really yeah like i love terminator 2 yeah t2 rule t2 was the best robert patrick is a badass villain schwarzenegger is now the good guy is kind of fun yeah it was kind of like in wrestling when hulk went to the bad guys and then the good guy. You know what I mean? You're right. Yeah. The heel switch. The heel switch.

But the other way around. But the other way around. It became good. Yeah. T2 is awesome. This is the one with Christian Bale, isn't it? Yeah. And you want it to be good because I love Christian Bale as an actor.

He's one of the best. Top five. Is he your top five? I think that's, for this generation, it's debatable. I think it's, you got to put him there. He's not a top five? For range, he's got to be. He's been there for everything.

Started out, what was that one movie where he? Newsies. Remember when he was a kid? Empire of the Sun? Empire of the Sun. Newsies, though. He's singing, dude. We're giving range points?

He's Batman. Batman. I think he's the best Bruce Wayne. Best by far. Not even close. And I'm a Keaton guy. I'm a Keaton guy. He's a Kent State alum. Is he he's the best Bruce Wayne. Best by far. Not even close. And I'm a Keaton guy. I'm a Keaton guy. He's a Kent State alum.

Is he? I went to Kent State. Him and Drew Carey. Well, dude, fucking Christian Bale, American Psycho. He's amazing. I didn't know he was British when I saw that movie. I still don't know he's British. The fighter?

The fighter? The fighter. Yeah, we're talking range. You've got to put him in that conversation this was also the um the movie where christian bale had the legendary on-set rant the cinematographer for walking through during the scene you're a great actor not a good person yeah what'd he say you're an amateur yeah because the guy was walking around hey man i mean we're talking about greatness You know what it kind of reminds me of? It reminds me of Devante with the Raiders.

Oh. When the guy goes through the tunnel, he pushes him. Sometimes you got to get out of the way of the artists when they're working. It feels like Christian Bale is such an artist-type actor that you feel like this is clearly one he did for the money. Like, you know, he's doing, like. He's doing other movies for the art. He's doing the machinists for the art. But then he gets this one.

He's like, yeah, they're paying me a lot of money. So he's probably already cranky to be there. Is he a method actor? He is, I think. Did he have to feel like... Maybe he was in Terminator mode. Maybe he was. Maybe he was in Terminator mode.

Was he playing a dick in the movie? He's John Connor's son? He's John Connor. He's the kid in D2 grown up. That's what he is, I think. I tried to watch it. I think he's the kid in 2 that was on the dirt bike all the time and that Arnold was protecting.

Yeah. I think when he grows up up that's who he is oh man have you seen ed furlong uh grown up he does not look like christian bale that that movie is a best case scenario even if it's end of the world vibes um yeah boom pow oh black eyed peas number? Yeah. Which one is that? Boom, boom, pow. Boom, boom, pow. Remember Black Eyed Peas had Let's Get Retarded? Can't say that.

That was like 10 years ago. And that was the number one. They're like, you can't say it anymore. I'm like, okay, but it was top 40. They made a lot of money off that word. Did you see Antonio Brown's post to the Arizona Cardinals? What'd he say? You can't say it.

Well, he said it. What is it? It's like, what does it say? I'm starting a new team called like the Retardinals or something like that. Retardinals? And he did a Photoshop with it and all. I mean, it's a bad look.

Yeah. I mean, day and age. For Antonio Brown? Yeah. Know the climate, buddy. Know the climate. You know it's a bad look when we're saying it's and age. For Antonio Brown? Yeah. Know the climate, buddy. Know the climate. You know it's a bad look when we're saying it's a bad look for Antonio Brown. Yeah.

That guy whipped it out in the tub. You can't whip your dick out in a public tub. Did he? Yeah, over there in Dubai. Yeah. What do you mean? I didn't hear their story. You didn't see the video?

No. He was like sitting in a tub or a tub, a big pool in Dubai. The meat. Yeah. Just pulled it out and then he jumped up and put his butt cheeks on this lady's head. He wasn't even with the ladies. She was just some random lady in the pool. Yeah.

What are we doing, buddy? Yeah, that's not, you can't be doing that. He's actually such a charming guy in person. Yeah. I like ABA. He came over. We broke bread together. We only spent like six days together until he was out of the building.

But I thought he was such a charming guy. Yeah, no, I mean, I think guys like that certainly have the ability to charm, but I don't think she was charmed by him at all. No, probably. That is CTE in full motion. That is, you're lucky you got out dude thank god we don't want to see julian edelman whipping it out in a public pool thank god you got your shit together yeah i mean i kind of want to see it personally but i think like you know it's a

bad look it's not a good look yeah there's not a good glee premiered on fox Fox. Ugly. Yeah, that was big. Jane Lynch. I didn't really watch it. I just remember. I watched it once on a flight, and it was good. It's a good show.

It's just not my cup of tea. Yeah, I was a little too old. That was like when being gay was edgy. That's when they were like, oh, my God, a gay show is on TV. And you're like, it's not a big deal. But they were like, it is a gay show is like on tv and you're like it's not a big deal but they were like it is it's on fox fox yeah i just remember there was like wasn't there a rapper dating one of the cast members and he kept on like referencing yeah my girlfriend works in glee what big sean yeah big sean he dated a Glee member. Who did he date? Naya Rivera. Yom.

Yom's on fire today. That kid died, too. Remember the one from Glee? That's sad. He was one of the main guys. R.I.P. Yeah, drugs. Drugs?

Drugs are bad. Don't do drugs, dude. So bad. Facebook launches Farmville. Farmville was annoying. I didn't play. I didn't play either but like you'd always get those invites someone was like what what did you get points for inviting someone it's like being it's like being a jehovah's witness they're like trying to get you to

recruit i'm like get the fuck off my page dude do you get points for recruiting is there like a farmville afterlife or something so what was the concept of the game? You just farm? I think. I remember a lot of guys in the locker room being on it. Really? Yeah. Farming for hipsters? You'd be surprised that all these little like phone games.

There was a phone game? Yeah. Phone games would be so hot in the locker room in between meetings. This. I remember Matthew Slater used to play this game a lot. All the time. It was cool. I'm like, what are you doing?

He's like, yeah, just watering my crops. I'm like, we're in the training room. It was like an adult Tamagotchi. Yeah. Remember the Tamagotchi? Yeah. That was like a good test to see if you'd be a shitty parent. Your friend would just have one die immediately.

I'm like, that's the person who left their baby in a hot car later in life. The guy who couldn't handle a Tamagotchi for like a day. Good sign. person who left their baby in a hot car later in life the guy who can handle a tamagotchi for like a day good sign speaking of uh premature deaths michael jackson died at age 50 here yeah that was my new segue speaking of people who died before their time michael jackson at 50 that was that was one of the more shocking celebrity deaths of our time yeah i mean michael jackson was single-handedly probably the most famous person in the world like one of the most beloved entertainers ever and he died what does he have like a heart attack from what was it propofol was that what it was called yeah propofol was what he ingested they said conrad murray was the doctor who uh who gave it to him and was charged with involuntary manslaughter in 2011 damn a lot of i bet there was a lot of celebrities who

were like dude i need a prescription like he a lot of people probably saw that he was probably like a celebrity doctor right definitely yeah he got his medical license revoked. But they said as of 2016, he's still visiting with some patients. He's still... I guess he's just kind of doing it on his own. He's out of prison. Yeah. He got out after two years on parole of his four-year sentence.

I wonder if that's the dude in prison who would get the hookup. He'd have a friend sneak in prescriptions and he's like, I got your shit, guys. Maybe he's the popular guy in prison. That was definitely his value. he didn't have to do you have a doctor who would just hook it up for you no they got really serious with that stuff ever since uh the sean payton incident where they broke in and the whole vikadin thing like you couldn't even have they used to be able

to store medicine at the facility like they have a huge like room full of it that would be locked and everything but then once that all happened you had to go get your prescriptions elsewhere you couldn't get it out like they used to on the planes on the way home from games the trainers would just be like who needs an ambien who needs something and that all went away real fast you guys must have popped like ambien like you you the the you must be exhausted at night you know a lot of guys would do that you know obviously pain pain meds were huge for those guys sure never i was never a pain med guy though fucks up your shitting schedule interesting it plugs you up and and if i my

routines jacked up like in the morning i have my you know 5 a.m 5 20 dump go on like if i can't put first thing in the morning yeah first thing two dumps before practice two two dumps before you got a sweet metabolism dude it was it was on like clockwork, buddy. Oh man. Get that thing down. But yeah, the pain pills, like when I'd have surgery, I'd get off of them and like as soon as I could, because it just, I didn't like, I didn't like the feel. And also it's probably bad to be on those. Cause you don't know where you're hurting really. No, that, that, that it wasn't anything to do with the pain relief that you got. It just was my shitting schedule. It was just pooping. I could not not poop. You, not not poop you never you didn't i mean you must have needed them sometimes right there's a couple games early on in my career where i would do it but you could take tordol tordol was a uh it's an

anti-inflammatory like it's like in a leave times a thousand which that did the job for me i didn't i didn't want to feel oozy i i remember one time i had a prescription and i i took a um like a vicodin i had a bad back i tackled vince young and i uh when i was playing defense and i fucked up my back this wasn't like skinny vince young this was thick vince young this was titans no this was philly philly remember philly vince young where he had his little time and i hit him square in like the middle part of him, so I didn't take him low enough where he'd flip over or high enough where he would go down.

Hit him right in the middle, and my back just jammed, and I couldn't walk for like— He was huge. Huge. And the next week, we played the Redskins, and I took a Vicodin before the game and a tortle and like pre-workout drink and i remember going out and getting called for a punt return and looking and seeing three balls i saw like three ball i'm like i can't do this anymore i almost muffed a punt three balls

is too many for any occasion yeah i like to cap it at two let's keep it at two let's keep it that's brutal dude yeah did you catch the ball i caught it yeah but i just i just didn't like that yeah that's terrifying yeah and but did you feel okay to play though yeah you were just you don't feel pain you didn't i didn't feel pain but you know do you did you feel like almost invincible when you were running with the ball because you didn't feel pain no i mean you always feel that way yeah you know whenever you have the ball in your hand you always you always feel invincible fuck yeah until you jump up and get clobbered yeah by like five guys you were that dude you were that dude who would just get hit get hit you got hit a lot especially

especially when you're younger when you're younger you're young dumb full of cum don't have many opportunities to have the ball in your hand. So every time you were trying to make a touchdown, you know, second, third, fourth efforts, just getting lit up.

Yeah. But that was, that was who you were, man. I always loved Jeremy shocking the giants. Cause he would do that shit. And I was like, that was his thing.

But that takes years off your career. Oh dude. He retired young. Yeah. I think he was a party animal, too. I think once you start banging Tara Reid, your days are numbered. That's a bad sign. Tom Brady got it, though.

What? Tom used to be with Tara Reid back in the day. Really? Before my time. I can neither conform nor can I deny. All right. Jules, you were going balls to the wall, letting Vince Young have it. But you recorded after the game is saying with all these

rules floating around in regards to hitting the quarterback I wanted to hit him but do it right I just didn't want to get out of there and get a penalty of any kind so you were thinking ahead of your time I didn't want to have a penalty and then

get a hit on the quarterback and then all of a sudden see a little yellow Yankee and just trot over the bench with Bill staring me down like he wanted to kill me because you extend a drive. By no means did I ever want that. No means. Let's go to the NBA in 2009. The Lakers ended up winning it all. As we said, they beat the Magic 4-1.

Kobe's first championship post-Shack. This was big. You know, that one in Boston really hurt him because he grew up... Didn't he grow up a Lakers fan, Kobe? Let me look. I knew he... Well, whatever.

Regardless, he was Mr. Lakers. So he knew what it meant to be Boston. And what it meant to lose to Boston, too. That was a tough and then they well he got his revenge in 2010 i used to go to that i went to that game those games remember they played again in 2010 this was a crazy series this was a crazy year because yeah they did and that's when kobe got them but this was a crazy series because uh or season because the calves had the best record in the east the lakers had the best record in the west the calves were 66 and 16 i believe this is the series they lost to the magic where delante had sex with lebron's mom let me take a we double check

but i think it's i think that's pre is it pre is it didn't lebron go to the heat in 2010 cleveland lost four to two to orlando in this playoffs in the eastern conference finals let me look up i think this was the delante west had sex with lebron implosion can't fuck the captain's mom that is something you definitely should not do you should not especially if it's the generational talent player of the world. Yeah. No one on the Patriots would have tried to fuck Tom Brady's mom. No. First off, she's a sweetheart.

Second off, I'm not getting anywhere near anything like that. No, it's bad for the team. The MVP was LeBron that year. Wade was a leading scorer. And they teamed up the next year. The rookie of the year was a young. Spry. Wade was a leading scorer and they teamed up the next year. The rookie of the year was a young spry, a spry, Derek Rose athletic.

He was unlike anything you'd seen at that point, a guy who could jump like that. And he was kind of like Russell Rushbrook. Yeah. He had that same explosiveness. He was better. I mean, you know,

when Russell was cooking, I mean, he was the youngest MVPvp of all time too i mean he was unreal had really good commercials with adidas too yeah he made adidas look cool for sure remember he had like he would do the jog outside of because he was from chicago right he was from chicago and he played for the bulls it was kind of like a an incredible story it was unbelievable it doesn't happen often man it sucks that injuries he's had you know what though give him credit he's had an amazing second half of just staying around because he's been

good the last few years uh but yeah i mean he could have been he's like if i get if there's one nba player who i wish never had an injury it's probably rose i mean grant hill and penny are in the convo too but before games i would listen to like these mashups of like inspirational speaking and there's like one of derrick rose saying like why can't i be mvp why can't i go play for like my hometown like and i would listen to him he'd fire me up so shout out derrick rose you were so soft-spoken too yeah he was a good pro around the league this was the first season of the oklahoma city thunder they had a young kd in westbrook and the good people of seattle were deprived of an awesome young team maybe kd doesn't leave if he's in a city like seattle good fish good fish and se Seattle's a good city. Just always cloudy. It's depressing.

It's a little, I mean, that's where grunge was invented. Yeah. Those people aren't, let's just say, the most happy people. Weird vibes. You got grunge, then you got Frasier. It's a weird combo. Right? That's Seattle.

But 2009, what were we doing? I was in college still i guess julian you had just been drafted by new england i just got drafted to new england i was like in a whole different world yeah just changing positions changing sceneries being the big man on campus to a slapdick rookie for the new england patriots which were like the benchmark of that generation how pumped were you to be going to new england so that was like legit bro i had i had so i was so fired up like i was having epiphanies that you know wes welker and me in the slot randy moss on the outside joey galloway maroney in the backfield and it didn't go like that at all i rode the pine and became a special teamer for like a few years and you played your way in man play your way in

yeah that must have been older joey galloway right old joey galloway still could run though oh dude i remember cowboys joey galloway rakib ishmael yeah that was those were some good receivers mile speed they had he they said he ran like a four two like there was like like old folklore that he ran like four one at the ohio state pro day and and he was like almost 40 and still running like 4-4 damn it was it was fun but uh yeah but that's a stacked receiving team to join it was that's why i didn't think i was gonna make the team and that's why i had to you know make myself versatile enough where i could give enough value to the team to not cut me you know return punts cover kicks and you know be a good viable backup so it was uh it was definitely it was a crazy time in my life as far as just being hit with just where am i yeah you know what i mean finally getting to have your name called in the draft and you're wearing a patriots jersey i mean

putting that on the first time must have been amazing I used to just stay in the locker room until like 10 30 11 and uh you know just marvel at my my my helmet and my my jersey and the fact that we got like free Gatorades and Kent State you know we we didn't have the budget let's just say of an nfl football team and be at the facilities it was uh it was a cool year it was a cool year who was like the first of those receiving guys who was the coolest to you um sam aiken uh you know those guys like randy and and wes and joe those guys were like the stars you know and i was kind of a kid who's you know i didn't know to get in a receiver stance bro yeah and uh you know but sam akins he was a receiver that was you know special teams captain and he was kind of like a older brother figure that like put his arm

around me and knew that i was all over the place mentally because you know that they're evaluating you every day and stuff you have a bad practice you think over the place mentally because you know that they're evaluating you every day and stuff you have a bad practice you think you're getting cut and you know sam a you get your dream and you're like i could lose this in a in a second you know that was that was a thing you get drafted you hear your name and then you go to rookie camp and you see that there's 90 guys and they're only gonna keep 53 53. He started playing numbers game. Am I going to be here? And how many of them were the best dude on their college team?

Everyone was the best in their college. Everyone was the best football player around. Yeah. But it was a great start. That was the start of it, man. Awesome. Well, let's get into this game. The Denver Nuggets head coach george carl as we said uh 54

and 28 franchises best record since is that 1987 damn wow who was on that 87 team was that like alex english those are those old jerseys were fucking nice those like those were like those blue and yellow rainbow and the rainbow let me see that yeah pull those up pull the alex english nuggets jerseys the blue ones yeah those are sweet yeah alex english was on this team he was the number one scorer of the 1980s in the nba people sleep on that dude i'm a fucking hoops junk you're a hoops historian you're hh i love it dude all right so they were the number two seed in the west behind the lakers i believe this is when they ship marcus canby to the clippers before the season canby was

a dpoy that guy was a fucking killer and as a nick was one of my favorite players i love marcus canby they sent iverson to detroit for chauncey billups antonio mcdice i mean billups was the glue for this he was what the missing piece on this team because iverson was great but he was a little past his prime he was too similar to carmelo you know they're both scorers you know when you have two major scorers you need someone to be able to delegate and that's what chauncey did he delegated he was a floor general he was a general such a good defender yeah they had mellow nene who if you go to a fogo chow the brazilian steakhouse you might see a nene jersey the one in new york has one i know

uh brazilians finest brazilians finest dude right after the pussy wax it's him and the vagina waxing that's their claims to fame uh dante jones duke uh chauncey kmart coming off the bench they have my guy jr smith ex nick six man of the year was great bird man who didn't love bird man hey he was a fun character he was so longfully accused of child pornography acquitted yeah you don't hear that often that's oh yeah that's usually that's a sinking ship i think he was the first to get catfished there's a huge catfish story about him right wasn't that what that was about something like that let me look into that look into the catfish he definitely got accused that's a that's something you don't want to be accused of innocent or guilty

but if you're guilty you do deserve it but he wasn't this is is a fun team. Great tattoo team. They all were tatted up. Mello and Kmart had the headbands, the sleeves. Swag team. Yeah. They were swaggy. They beat New Orleans 4-1 to get to the Western Conference Finals after beating Dallas. They beat Dallas.

This is a good Dallas team they beat. Dirk. Dirk. Yeah. And the Lakers. Head coach, Phil Jackson. Records 65-17 17 really good year killer coming off a year where they lost to the celtics in the nba finals andrew bynum was back healthy

there was high hopes for this team expected to be a title contender top seed of the west had the best record of the west all season their starters were kobe andrew bynum derek fisher trevor how do you say his last ariza he was lighting it up too in this game lighting it up dude he nicks traded him for a washed up steve francis and that was like a heartbreaker because we all were like oh shit ariza's like a good defender he can you know in this game you know you see you can shoot the three and he's athletic still he dunked on someone too he posterized and they had pal gasol yeah hall of famer i mean very good very good basketball player this season would mark the lakers 30th nba final appearance that's crazy 30 30 finals

appearance ingrate fan base too just a bunch of fucking ingrates but they do have cool fans i mean the stars were out tonight uh jack nicholson was there mackinrow tom cruise will ferrell john cena a lot of i mean nicholson was sitting next to his boy robert town his former roommate the guy who wrote chinatown love seeing them together uh that's what the lakers need they need they need to get jack back he's too old to put up with this horse shit how old is he now he's gotta be 85 or 84 he doesn't want to sit through this whatever this team is 85 85 yeah nichols maybe here's johnny maybe the coolest movie star in american history really and i mean he's up there gotta be he's so he's so cool he's cool he's funny charming he's the best yeah this

was a this is a good jersey mashup too those those powder blues versus the classic Laker yellows. Denver ended the first half on a 14-2 run. Billups had that sick inbounds pass off Kobe's butt. Throws it off his butt, grabs it. Savvy play. Loved that shit. And this was kind of, as we said, kind of the Trevor Reza game. He dropped 20, played amazing D. The series, the Lakers win 105-103.

Mello had 39, kobe had 40 that matchup was prime mellow versus prime kobe that's such a kobe thing too you got 39 i'm getting 40 so true game two the nuggets won 106 103 game or game two rather game three the nugget lakers win 103 97 game four the nuggets win it was a 2- four, the Nuggets win. It was a 2-2 series. The Lakers won game five and game six. The storylines were Kobe versus Melo. Could the Nuggets get over the hump? And, you know, Denver broke a record streak with their game two win,

their first playoff win against the Lakers since 1985. And coming into the Western Conference Finals, Melo was balling out. You know, he gets a lot of shit for not being like a playoff performer. When you put a team around him, he was pretty damn scary. He could not not score.

It was unreal. Just watching him shoot threes, mid-range. He could take it to the rim. He was everything, man. It was a fun matchup to watch because, you know, Kobe being, you know, what was it? His fun matchup to watch because you know kobe being you know what was his eighth year in the league at this time goes in was he no 13 maybe it was 2009 oh yeah 2006 yeah yeah he'd been there a minute he's been there a minute and then you got the young gun

you know what was mellow in his third season third fourth fifth he was young he was young he was in his prime this was his prime this was kobe i mean kobe's prime was just so long but yeah you're right that's what we forget about that kobe had like he had rivalries with guys like iverson and t-mac and then he had rivalries with lebron and mellow and the next generation so it's a testament to kobe's longevity this is this is kobe podcast we just talk about kobe all the time but you know what it's it's hard not to get caught in a kobe like rabbit hole like i'll be on instagram and i just can't not watch his clips and there's so many tributes and he was he was incredible generational player i mean that's he's one of the goats and all the young guys revere him you see what the way

tatum talks about the way devin booker talks about him like he he was that dude dwayne dwayne wade talks about him all of them mentality mamba mentality baby and let's get to the gaming corner presented by win bet um what's the prop bet gonna be on this one how many times we can say k-mat k-mat k-mart yeah it's got to be something. How many times did you say Kmart? What can we do? Thank you. Nah. What's a... You'll have the insides of this one. It's a tough one. Yeah, I mean, I...

I remember when they beat the Knicks, they swept the Knicks, and I had to quit smoking weed. I had, like, two really bad basketball-related highs. One was in USA, lost to Puerto Rico, and the other one was when, yeah, fucking Carlos Arroyo couldn't miss a fucking shot. I had like two really bad basketball related highs. One was in USA lost to Puerto Rico. And the other one was when, yeah, fucking Carlos Arroyo couldn't miss a fucking shot. USA lost.

And then the Knicks got swept and Kmart lit us up. Jason Kidd and Kmart just throwing alley-oops all day. Kmart in his prime was a fucking gazelle, dude. He could jump. He could jump out of the fucking arena. Yeah, what is the Kmart in his prime was a fucking gazelle, dude. He could jump. He could jump out of the fucking arena. Yeah, what is the Kmart? How many times we could say Rocky Mountain High? Did you ever get Rocky Mountain High?

Yeah, the altitude? You get drunk in that city quickly. Two or three beers in Denver, you feel that shit. Yeah. I don't think I've really gone out in Denver like that. Great city. All right, we got to think of a good one jr smith maybe yeah how many times remember when jr smith dm'd a girl and it got screenshot and he just wrote to her you trying to get the pipe and that became nick's shirts nick's fans will wear shirts saying you trying to get the pipe

we let's let's see how many times we can ask him if he's ever talked to jr about trying to get the pipe we let's let's see how many times we can ask him if he's ever talked to jr about trying to get the pipe i like it what do we think how many times i mean you can only ask him maybe twice one five one five it is all right we gotta find something but all right we're gonna be joined by kenya martin after this break well kenya thanks so much for joining us man this is uh it's a privilege to have you on uh i'm a knicks fan so that that year you gave us meant a lot to me uh great career new jersey nets uh at the end of the clippers in the box but we're talking about the nuggets today which was i think one of the all-time cool nba teams and we had you we had mellow bill, Billups, JR, Birdman. Just a fun group of guys. This is right after you guys lost Camby.

But, you know, obviously a Cincinnati Bearcat, great. Your numbers hang in the rafters at UC. And thanks for joining us today, man. No problem, man. Appreciate you having me on, man. What are you doing these days post-retirement? Post-retirement, man? Family stuff on, man. What are you doing these days post-retirement? Post-retirement, man, family stuff mostly, man. I'm a father of six from 21 to four.

Yeah, keeping me busy in that regard. Business things, man, just staying out of harm's way for the most part. Just enjoying it, but most importantly enjoying retirement that's the most important thing man just love not not having mandatory things to do besides be a dad so that's i'm feeling that well that's not mandatory either there's some a lot of deadbeats out there but uh oh yeah you're definitely a lot of fucking definitely a lot of deadbeats out there but no i'm i try definitely not to fall in that category no i mean just the way you play there's not a chance you could be a deadbeat you were a badass on the court you're probably it's funny i saw you take a hit from that pen earlier because i think

you're a big reason i had to quit smoking pot because I had a really bad high when you guys swept the Knicks. I think you injured Tim Thomas and I was like, I can't handle weed. Let's not see. That's the narrative out there. It wasn't me. It was Jason Collins. Listen, let's get it straight. I ain't reading, but we can go look at the film.

It wasn't me. But I got called out. And you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but we can go look at the film. It wasn't me. But I got called out. And you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but definitely swept him. And game four, yeah, I put foot to ass in game four in the garden. It hurt. And I remember Tim Thomas was like, I want to box Kenyon Martin. And even as a Knicks fan, I was like, dude,

do not challenge Kenyon Martin to a fight. That is not going to end well. Yeah, man. All that boxing. Listen, man. dude do not challenge kenyan martin to a fight that is not going to end well yeah man i'm all that boxes listen man i'm just like we was there to play basketball man and it just it got taken to a point that you know hey listen whatever man i got a question you ever did you ever hurt your goddamn shoulder after dunking on someone and giving one of the arm things in mid air you used to get so fired up I'm paying for it now

like both of them both of them jacked up I think I need to go see somebody but yeah I don't know what made me start swinging off of it man I just just enthusiasm. Like, I guess it's the same as, I'm saying,

you scoring and then spiking the ball, I guess. You know what I'm saying? 100%. So I guess that's the – I'm saying the equivalent. Like, I guess it's one of them, man. And then it got to a point to where I got really good at it and I started timing the ball coming out the net. Like, when I dunk it, I started timing,

and I could hit the ball come out the net. So I started, yeah, so it was. And then I started doing some Ignis stuff. I started trying to hit the ref with the ball because I didn't like certain refs. But, yeah. You were such a tough guy. I mean, it was undeniable that you you backed it up do you look

at are you one of those guys that looks at the modern guys no matter who they are as soft or are there guys right now that you're like he's a tough guy is draymond a tough guy draymond plays hard i was in this n, Draymond is considered a tough guy. Yes, absolutely. In your NBA, he's not? Like, not necessarily. Like, Draymond plays hard as he can possibly play all the time. And sometimes that gets misconstrued as you being a tough guy

or a dirty player or something like in that regard. But in my opinion, like tough guy, I ain't saying you had to necessarily get in a fight on floor in game, but that was part of it. Like for the world to see you fight somebody. Like, that put that image in people's head. And not just hearing about it, but when you see it. You know what I'm saying? Like, they give people that notion, like,

he'll take it right there with you. So, I look at guys in that regard. And it was a lot of them guys in the 80s and early 90s. Oakley would fight you. Oakley's a dude I'm like, I don't think anyone wanted a piece of that. Yeah, I wouldn't, I'm glad me and Oak never, we wasn't around at the same time.

Who were dudes that you, were there any dudes, oh sorry, were there any dudes that you were like? No, not at all. No one intimidated you? No. No. Now, did this mentality come from? Did it come from Bob Higgins or Huggins in UC over in the Natty? Oh, no.

This is just where you grew up with? I grew up in Cincinnati at 18. Yeah, Oak Cliff, Texas, I just Oak Cliff Texas man Oak Cliff Texas Oak Cliff Texas don't ask anybody around Dallas where Oak Cliff is man it's like like Dennis Rodman went to Oak Cliff High like that's South Oak Cliff High is where he went to high school I'm from pretty much the same area as Dennis is from we grew up a little different Dennis path was a little different. A lot of guys is from Dallas, but

not a lot of guys is from Dallas that play in the NBA are from Oak Cliff. Like where I'm from. I took mine to Cincinnati with me. I had a fight with the starting center on the team my freshman year. I'm a freshman here

senior. I put hands on it my freshman year. I'm a freshman here, senior. Like, I put hands on it my freshman year. So it wasn't – like, no, I brought mine with me. It wasn't – no. I wasn't backing down from nobody. No, I wasn't backing down from nobody. Is anyone in today's NBA a tough guy to you or no? You have guys that play hard. Like, people think Jimmy Butler is a tough guy

because Jimmy plays extremely hard. There's a few guys like the Morris Twins people look at as probably tough guys. Outside of them two is James Johnson still around the guy that you know Jiu Jitsu yeah he'll fuck shit up he won't issues like he won't fucking problems with people

you can't have issues and know that shit and want problems. Like, it just don't. Like, you looking to go cause problems with people. Like, other than them three guys, nah. Who do you like watching now? Who are players that you enjoy?

Giannis. Giannis. I like watching Giannis play, man. I like watching Giannis play, man. I like Steph Curry. Actually, I like Golden State's team. I love watching them play. Outside of my own child, I'm a big-time KJ fan. I like watching KJ play basketball.

I'm biased, but I like watching him play. I like Jimmy Butler. I like the way he approached the game. I like a few dudes' skill set. I think a few dudes are really, really good. I think Jokic is really good. I think Jokic is really good. I think Jamal Murray is really good. I think Kawhi and Paul George are really talented. I like Chris Middleton. I like his growth and development.

When I was there, I was around him early. I like those guys. Yeah, I don't watch a whole lot of teams play because I can only stand to watch very minimal bad basketball. And by default, I'm forced to watch the Houston Rockets play. So that's my bad. That's enough fucking bad basketball to last me a lifetime. So I have to watch them.

But no, yeah, I just like watching guys who do it the right way, who play the game I have to watch them. But no, yeah, man, I just like watching guys who do it the right way, who play the game the right way, man. That's why I love watching the Golden State Warriors play, man, because they play the game the right way. Well, your son is on a rebuilding team in Houston. You come into the league, you're on a good team already. I mean, what's the differences? I mean, you're playing with Jason Kidd as a baby, right?

Well, yes and no. Like, my rookie year, we won 26 games my rookie year. J. Kidd wasn't there. I had Steph on my rookie year. Steph, and you got Kidd the next year. So, we won 26 games, traded for Steph. The next year, we won 52. So, when J. Kidd came, I was 23 years old.

Oh, wow. You know what i'm saying so i wasn't i was i was i was i was i was a grown man basically you know what i'm saying wait i got a quick question that you just talked about you grew up in oak cliff texas i actually when i was 12 years old i played a super bowl in florida against oak cliff texas redskins okay did you ever play football growing up because that was a good football area yeah with the redskins. Okay. Did you ever play football growing up? Cause that was a good football area. Yeah. The Redskins and the comments I played for the, the Cedar Crest comments and the Redskins were,

yeah, they were. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. So yeah, I played up my sophomore year. That's dude.

I always watch you taking these alley oops and just dunking on fools. And I just think to myself, you could have been an unbelievable tight end or a receiver red area target just throw it in i played tight end up to my sophomore year in high school man like my last year playing football was my sophomore year in high school see that's that's why he was so tough and hard because he played football you had that football in your bloodline when you when you up in Texas. All the way up. They love that stuff, man. You have to.

Like, you have to, man. Like, I broke my wrist when I was 12 playing football. Like, stiff-armed guy. Tried to break my fall. He pushed me. I was trying to, yeah. All that. Yeah.

My sophomore year, I ran a 4.640, man. Damn. Like, I was 6'7". I ran a 4.640. So, I 6 6 7 i ran a 4 6 40 so i was yeah yeah i catch everything like tough like play defensive end on defense like yeah i couldn't imagine trying to block him he's a he's a fast defensive end now take us back to 2009 when you you're with the nuggets what was your life like in 2009 at the beginning of the season before everything goes down and you guys make it to the playoffs

and play what you guys did? What was going on? Could you guys feel you guys had a team that was going to be able to contend? Yeah, I think so, man. I really think so. I think just us having Chauncey there, man, and him settling things for us. What was that Iverson trade like? Were you guys bummed to see Allen go?

Were you pumped to get Chauncey? What was the vibe? Yeah, no, we were, when AI was there, it was probably some of the funnest times I had as a pro. On and off the floor. But having him

and Melo, it wasn't going to work basketball-wise. And with the coach that we had. So it was multi-layered. What's some of that fun off the court you guys had? It was like the Beatles on the fucking road, man. Because we all had our own following, of course.

But I was watching Dion's 60 Minutes interview and somebody asked him, I've been around stars before but I ain't never been around a superstar. We were stars. He a superstar. He a superstar.

He a rock star. Having that kind of a following, man, and we out there winning and just some of the late night card games and playing rides and going to gambling casino with him and just like just seeing that seeing the love that he get what was what was everybody what was the casino like with iverson what what's his game? What are you guys playing together? Are the women circling the whole table? No, he's playing big money.

I've seen him fluctuate, him be up like 150. I leave, go do some comeback. He down 200. Then get back, he up 100. So he playing blackjack, man, and he playing big hands. Like big, big hands and playing two hands asjack, man, and he playing big hands. Like, big, big hands. And playing two hands as well, man. Yeah.

Yeah, but our card games on the plane were, like, legendary. Like, not to them numbers at times, but the consistency of it being 25, 30, $40,000 pots, $50,000 pots. Like it's regular. And you had to have a certain amount of money to get on the plane to play. Are there certain guys that are trying to play with you guys? You're like, dude, you're on a 10-day contract. the fuck out of here oh yeah no we won't let you play now certain certain guys now we if you if we think you're trying to quick lick us or you're trying to just

come in for one flight and now you if you play you play yeah there's no hitting and quitting you ain't ain't none of that shit going on with us like Like, we ain't allowing none of that. Like, we – the same four or five guys, like, them was our car buddies. And we knew, like, somebody might play for a little while, and if they start losing, if they had a bad four-game road trip, and they might not play the fifth – like, they might not play for a while. So we had a few guys that was like that, and we knew that about them. For the most part, no. We wasn't letting just anybody play.

Was it Liars poker? That's what we used to play a lot of. We played Bure. Bure. A lot of people played Bure. Some teams, they play Guts and shit like that, but I don't like guts. Ain't no thinking to it. Ain't no thought process to guts.

Any Tonks? Early on, my Nets days, we played Tonks with Rod Thorne. Yeah. Rod Thorne was the president of the gym, so Rod played with us, man. That was a great experience early, having him, getting to know him,

getting to know his competitive nature as a front office guy. Yeah yeah like that was dope now having him there like that was like that was dope but now i'm saying throughout my denver days um my nick days clippers yeah we play yeah we play bourree bourree all right so let's get back into the Denver Nuggets. You guys get Chauncey. The year before, you get what? You get swept by the Lakers, and then all of a sudden, Melo's like, I want to guard Kobe. What were your thoughts going into that?

No, hey, let him do it. It's a collective effort, man. It ain't just going to be one guy. Like, we all know that. We've been there. We know what Bean was capable of doing. So it's like, okay, Mellon's going to have his turn. I'm going to get some.

J.R. is going to get some. Dante is going to get some. Johnson is going to get some. We all are going to do the best job we possibly can do. You know what I'm saying? Make each possession tough. Like, I'm all about making each possession tough as possible, man, no matter what it is.

Now, we're going up against greatness. And we knew that. And we knew his competitive nature, man. So, we're just trying to meet that. Was he the greatest you ever went against, do you think? I mean, you went against a lot of amazing assignments. I mean, you guarded Tim Duncan. You went against Kobe.

I mean, who was the hardest? Yeah, I think Kobe and Tim Duncan are arguably in anybody's top five NBA players of all time. At least top ten. So definitely top ten, but a lot At least top 10. They would have to be. So, definitely top 10, but a lot of people top five. yeah, no,

just having, knowing what he is and knowing what he is about brings the best out of you. It brings the best out of you of a competitive nature, bring the best out of your game. And going against Tim Duncan as well,

man. I think Tim Duncan made me get better, made me become a better basketball player, made me become a deeper thinker when it comes to the game. And man, Colby. But most of my matchups with Tim, I had to dig deep in my thought process,

in my thought bag to try to, how to riddle, how to figure that out because he couldn't, he always played at the same speed. So, you know, but them guys, man, like, you know what I'm saying? They brought it out of us. But 08, 09, man, we made it to the Western Conference Finals. We had a chance, man. Like, we had a chance.

Like, well, yeah, we had a chance to get them boys. Did that narrative of that the Nuggets couldn't beat the Lakers in the playoffs, did that seep into the locker room at all? Or did you guys say, fuck that, we're going to do this? Well, we never talked about it as a group. I don't know if some guys paid attention to it. But I didn't fear nobody, man. Like they had our number for a little while,

but we were in a position to get them. So it wasn't no – if anybody had that thought process that we can't beat this team, then I don't want you around. You know what I'm saying? But we knew we had – what we had in the locker room, we knew what it was going to be, man. And it was special. It was special.

Who was talking to you during this game like what did any players get in your ear was was mellow vocal was chauncey kind of an emotional leader were you leading people like was anyone kind of keeping the morale up because this is a team with a chip on its shoulder this lakers team coming off losing a boss in the finals you know how much kobe wants this who was the motivator in the locker room i I always did. I've always been that kind of a basketball player within on the bench in the locker room. I've always been that guy to where I'm going to voice whatever negative or positive. I'm all in. And having a voice like Chauncey there was very, I'm saying, helpful, relaxing. Because he's been there.

You know, for a lot of the guys that hadn't been on that stage yet. And he beat Kobe. Yeah. So, for me and him, yeah, yeah. And he had beat the Lakers already. So, he knew how to go about it. You know, it's just experience with some guys, bad situational basketball by us, bad coaching.

It was, there's enough blame to go around. Did you hate playing for George Carl? Because I've heard you say that before. Oh, yeah. No, I couldn't stand it, man. Like, I just, just bad, just coaching one aspect of the game, man, doesn't make you a great basketball coach. He has a lot of wins.

He's been blessed with talent over the years. But, no, I'm not a big George Carl fan, not at all. Was that tough playing for a guy? I mean, you see Phil Jackson on the other end. You're like, this is guys considered one of the great coaches ever. Was it just you who felt this way or do you think all the guys were like,

this guy sucks? Yeah, a lot of guys felt that way, but ain't nobody going to say it. Ain't nobody going to challenge him. You know what I'm saying? But you had certain guys that would. I think we made it as far as we did because of Chauncey. In situational basketball, Chauncey told George, I got this.

So basically, sit your ass down and don't fuck this up. I got this. That's who Big Shot was. That's just who he was. He had earned that right to win those moments and big moments, close games and all that. Like you don't need to coach this right now. I got this.

The only thing we need you to do up during timeouts is draw up a play. Like everything else I got. So that was the – like he – like I said, he calmed things down. And he knew when to get other guys involved, when to get his shot, when we need to lean on Melo, if Melo had it going, distribute the ball, he going to get his. So that was part of being a leader. You know what I'm saying?

That's why we got as far as we did man because we had him now you guys are playing in staples you guys are battling you guys you guys pretty much hold kobe pretty well throughout the game what's it feel like to play in the staples center play the the villain and and win this game. Like, did you guys, going into this, you guys are like, hey, what was the series at? I think you were down 2-1. 2-1.

Oh, it was 1-0, sorry. 1-0. Well, also, going along with Julian saying, Jack Nicholson's there, Tom Cruise is there, all these, do you look over and the part of you like, fuck you, Nicholson. I'm about to throw it down. No, it's however many people it see. If it ain't cheering for us, then

it's fuck everybody, man. That's the way we approach it. That's damn sure the way I approached it. I want to shut everybody up. We had a lot of guys that fit at that same thought process man like like that we want to shut y'all up in here i love that we knew we had a shot that was one of

my favorite things being the villain yeah when you go absolutely the crowd's going crazy it's third and fucking 10 you you you get a 14 yard completion the silence the full stadium you know that that's what you live for as an athlete if you're a real tough guy right oh that's what you used to do you know that's what hey that was your thing hey them big third down completions and big red zone catches and plays and end arounds and all that like yeah i'm with you and then they might let you go out there and throw you one you know what i'm saying so hey i had to campaign for that for fucking eight years before bill let me do it it was fucking bullshit i'm with you i'm against my coach too hey hey he he told you we bought you here to fucking catch passes. We got a pass thrower, god damn it.

Listen, I'll let you know if I need your services. That's exactly what he said. That's exactly what he said. You guys win the game, but you lose the series. Is there anything that you wish you guys would have done differently in 2009 to keep that bad boy going? Yeah, man. It's two out-of-bounds plays, man.

Like, two out-of-bounds plays, man. Like, two out-of-bounds plays. We should have had the wherewithal to run something different because it happened the first game. We threw it away. Anthony Carter threw it away because they took the same – they took our out-of-bounds, side out-of-bounds play away. Had a bad turnover in that incident. Next game, I think I threw it away in the

same situation or a similar situation because they knew I saw it out of bounds. It was horseshit. Situational basketball. It'll win you or lose you. Yeah, time score situation. Time score situation. Y'all know it. I'm saying, you know it, Jules. It's all two minutes.

You got a four-minute drill. You got a two-minute drill. You got no timeouts, one timeout, all that shit. You know how it is. So you played with Melo here in the Nuggets, you played with him again on the Knicks. That was a really fun Knicks team. I remember when they signed you, I was like,

"'Holy shit, K-Mart can still jump. "'He can still get blocks. "'He still totally had it. And did you have a good relationship with Carmelo, you felt? Yeah. That's my youngin', man. Like, I came in, Mello was in his second year. You know what I'm saying?

He was still a kid. So, yeah, we always had a dope relationship. Did a lot of winning together, man. We kicked a lot of ass together. A few heartaches together. You know what I'm saying? So we know what it is. I'm saying I think we, yeah,

we did some special things, man. I witnessed greatness right in front of me. Some of the, one of the purest scores that I've, of the basketball that I've ever seen, man. Score effortless. I seen him grow up right before my very eyes. I seen him become a man. Seen him go on New York, try to do things there.

Was able to join him over there. No, no. I look at Melo in a different light than a lot of people. Like a lot of people look at Melo as selfish. A lot of people look at himo in a different light than a lot of people. A lot of people look at Melo as selfish. A lot of people look at him as not a winner. A lot of people look at him as different various things, a hint to why he probably don't have a job right now. A lot of people outside don't know the inside, though.

That's outside noise. But how cool is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I ask you to go along with that because i think that's really interesting i mean do you think that russell westbrook is getting kind of an unfair treatment right now because i feel like he's been the butt of every negative comment with the lakers meanwhile their front office has done a dog shit job who in their right mind thought hiring rob palinka was a good fucking decision in the first place. Just be honest, man. The man was

an agent. That shit is wild to me. Just because you can go and get a guy to sign with you as an agent, don't necessarily mean you can put a fucking team together, man. Does it make you mad? The criticism that Russell's getting right now as a former player, are you

kind of like, what's going on? Yeah, no. I think it's a crock of shit, be honest with you it's just like just the social media aspect of it but russ doesn't make it easy on people going out there and going oh 411 and shit like that like he don't make it easy true well hard on him he don't make it hard on him rather he don't make it hard he makes it easy for them to have ammunition at times. But it's just like it's that power alone shit, man, which is unfortunate for what he's done for the game.

His first ballot Hall of Famer, man. Like, how can we go through things as athletes? Like, you have ups, you have downs. You have good games, you have ups you have downs you have good games you have bad games like and the people who criticize couldn't do a a percent of what this man has accomplished yeah that's why that's why i keep my mouth fucking shut because i could not say you know and he and he does a good job at basically saying, fuck him. Because it could, it definitely probably, when it's affecting your family, it's going to affect you.

Because he can't tell me that it's not affecting him. Because it's affecting his family. So he has to hear it when he gets home. His wife has to deal with it. His kids have to deal with it. It's unfortunate in that regard because in sports it shouldn't translate to your home life in that

regard. It's unfortunate in that regard, but the sport, man, I think he'll bounce out of it whether it's with the Lakers or if they make a move or whatever. He loves to compete, man. I think he'll get the last laugh. How's J.R. Smith as a teammate? J.R.'s cool, man. I understand my teammates, man. So he, I think he'll get the last laugh. How's, how's J.R. Smith

as a teammate? J.R.'s cool, man. I understand my teammates, man. I understand who they are. I understand what they're about. I don't, I don't, I don't put too much

in, on it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm the mind, my business kind of a teammate.

If I fool with you, I fool with you. We can go out, we can hang out, but I'm a, I'm a mind, my business kind of a guy. Yeah. If it don with you, I fool with you. We can go out. We can hang out. But I'm a mind my business kind of a guy. If it don't affect me directly,

I ain't got nothing to do with it. I understood, Gerald. I was shockingly surprised how actually good Gerald was at basketball. I thought he was just an athlete. When I got on the team when I thought he was just an athlete. That boy can listen.

I'm like, yo, he can fucking play. Yeah. Like, some of the shit he used to do in practice, or he used to put on exhibitions in practice. Like, scoring exhibitions in practice. Right. So, yeah, nah, he was a better, he was a well-rounded,

he was a better basketball player than I thought before he got with us. But, no, he definitely helped us, man, in a lot of ways. And like, and I just keep going back to, I know it sounds like I'm beating a dead horse. If JR, if we had different coaching, if JR had different coaching, things'd be different. Yeah. What's his popcorn story?

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, coaching's... popcorn story? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Coachings? Listen, so, April Fools, as we know, we get four random drug tests in the league.

Well, we used to. They test for everything. They test for weed. So we, it's not, it's documented that JR partakes. You know what I'm saying?

So it's not like I'm telling the people something they don't know. So I put guys' names. So I had the trainer put guys' names on the board saying it was a piss test. Right? It's April. It's late in the season. Guys that's on their third test, they about to think it's going to be their fourth. So I put guys' name on the board.

I put like six names on the board. A few games, guys who I knew that smoked, guys I knew that didn't smoke. So just a mixture of guys. So they come in and see their name on the board, and they hype. The guys that partake, like, oh, shit, got more fours. So we go out for shoot-around, come back, ain't no names on the board. It's April Fool's on the board. Ha, ha, ha, key, key, key.

No harm, no foul. So I thought. So we got a game that night. I leave my car key in my locker. I don't play that night. Me was probably about to do something I don't suit up I'm in a suit So the game over

Team bring it in I'm the first one out of the locker room Because I didn't play I go get my car I hit the lock It don't unlock I hit Go open the door

Popcorn and shit fall out I leave the door open I and shit fall out. I leave the door open. I go right back in the building. I threaten everybody in the organization life. Listen, I need to find out who did it. I mean, you got to be on the clock. Damn it. Listen, I need, there's a camera outside the locker room.

I need to know who was in there during the game so they saw who was in there during the game they went and questioned him and and he spilled the fucking beans right away said who put him up he said who put him up to as a ball boy like he said who put him up to it and all this he paid him and did all this so yeah so i threatened his life jr life and yeah and everybody else castle and brady were getting into it with pranks one year and they they did the same thing i think that's what makes the team team though like you got to have some of that bullshit prank shit of course you were probably pissed because yeah but some people yeah but you know i wasn't that kind of a kiki guy

okay the april fools thing like the april fools thing the names on the board that's one thing like you do some shit like that okay i'm a i thought it was ha ha ha kiki what yeah but everybody in the organization was like of all people you can do that to like jr why you pick him like yeah i'm looking at that roster you're my last pick on that roster who i can do that to like jr why you pick him like yeah i'm looking at that roster you're my last pick on that roster who i would do that too yeah like why him of all people you know how he is well we you know i wanted yeah if i could have got jr address that night yeah i would have did some stupid problem we We love JR in New York. I mean, we're all, you know, Knicks fans love JR Smith.

He was a six-man of the year here. He was great. I do remember when the DM went viral of JR asking a woman if she's trying to get the pipe. Do you remember that? Good or bad pickup line? Listen, man. Because he is describing his penis as a pipe that sounds pretty big hey hey straight hey straight to the point hey listen she she gonna accept that she

ain't you are you a skyline chili guy or gold star oh no i, I need a one. Oh my God. That shit bad. I don't get it either. I think it's bad. I don't understand. Oh, that's bad. It's fucking nuts. I'd rather have a chili dog. Thank you. Oh, that shit is all in a sweet and they put the shit over spaghetti. Oh, it's sweet. Oh, no thank you. We were there for four years, and we had sponsorship with them and all that. They used to bring that shit to the games and all that. I'm like, no. No, no.

Before we get out of here. It's not going to happen. I got to ask you, are there any Kobe stories you remember that are maybe funny or any moments with Kobe that like stand out to you? Actually, my first time ever seeing him. I wasn't big into the high school rankings and all that.

I mean, I just played basketball. I lucked up and got on the AAU team. I had to cut. I caught a Greyhound bus from Dallas to Newark to go to ABCD camp took me like 22 hours on a Greyhound to get there and at that camp all the names were there

I didn't know nothing about these camps so I was able to get an invitation to go there and people were like just following this dude around it was like a big deal and I'm like yo who is that why is everybody people just following this dude around. It was like a big deal. I'm like, yo, who is that?

Why is everybody? They're like, man, that's the number one player in y'all class. I'm like, what class y'all talking about, man? Because they was making us go sit in these SAT classes and certain prep classes. I'm like, oh, he good at school? I'm naive to this shit. I have no idea. He walking around with a big-ass radio, music loud, playing music and shit.

I'm like, who the fuck is this dude? Like, what make him? Like, that's Kobe Bryant. I'm like, who? They're like, that's Kobe Bryant. Like, he going straight to the league. I'm like, oh, okay. And we went out to ABCcd and i saw why dude so you have your kids in in the league he's played against mellow do you give him

any insight any insight like hey he doesn't like this if you do that right here you got it right everything absolutely sabotage anybody anybody that played that i played against that's still in the league or still in the league his first three years oh absolutely like his first time he played against paul milsap he will hear me like yo i think i'm gonna have to guard paul milsap tonight i'm saying what do i need to do i told him how to play him i'm saying because paul was my era i played a lot of games against paul um yeah with mellow as well you know i'm saying force him here you're gonna try to get into your body you're gonna do this on the free throw line you gotta get in early because he's gonna try to quick you in certain situations like that now see i gotta get him

his cheat code is that it's gotta be so satisfying seeing young buck play that like that's almost like an extension of your career yeah i have a five-year-old we go to soccer practice and i see her do something good and it's like i just scored a fucking touchdown i can't imagine watching my son in the league oh i can only imagine how you're gonna have a footwork though you know what i'm saying you're gonna have a footwork mean on that soccer's on the pitch you're gonna have a i got her I got to, like, trick her and, like, bribe her with candy to make her go out and practice and shit. It's a little different with a little girl. She's like nothing but unicorns and horses. You ain't got to tell me.

My daughter has seven soccer teams. She's been doing the same shit for the last two and a half years, three years. Listen. And I be out there. She tell me, Daddy, you can't keep yelling. I'd say, okay, baby. I'm sorry. You're making me nervous. I'm like, I'm sorry, baby.

I'll try. The very next week, I'm yelling. She'd look over there. She'd be like, shh. I'd be like. I get it, dude. I get it, man. We appreciate you coming on. I can be that way at the basketball game.

I can be that way at the hoop games. You know what I'm saying? I'm loud in there. You know what I'm saying? So everybody know I'm there. I sit in the front row, and I let everybody know it. Kenyon, do we miss anything about this era, about this game, about just any NBA stories that we missed out on here?

Nah, man. I think it was dope, man. I just, just, just the talking about Kobe, man, and what he meant to, what he meant to the game and those matchups, man. I think people need to hear it. I'm saying how it was, man. It was, that's why I like watching certain guys and certain teams play now, man. It's just that competitive, like I miss that,

I miss watching guys compete at a high level, you know what I'm saying? And it means something to more guys. Like that's just what I miss about it. And that's why I'm, like I enjoy watching my son play, man, because he embodies all that. It's a different generation, though. I'm the same way. You watch the new generation play.

The thing to me, though, like pregame, guys are too kiki with each other. I used to hate the fucking Jets. I used to want to fucking kill Bart Scott. I saw Ray Lewis before a game. I want to spit near him. Now everyone's like best friends hanging out. By the way, now you're like best

friends with Ray Lewis. It's different now. We're on the same team on Inside the NFL. Absolutely. No, I'm with it, man. All that I just I don't like it. I'm with you. Jules i just i really it it irks my ass man like it really chaps my ass at times like you see like you know all the hugging and dapping and helping helping opposing team up and all that shit it chaps my ass man i get it man well i i we appreciate you

taking the time to come talk ball stories with us if you uh ever need anything on our end man we were there for anything so i'll be out in la we'll have to we'll have to get together and talk some more stories sure let's catch up man all right bro thank you we uh we love the way you played man loved it was like it feels like getting in a time machine just your intensity and the way you throw down dunks and get blocks and and compete i i love the enthusiasm i mean it was it was a lot you played in a lot of cool teams including one that ripped my heart out but this nuggets team that nick's team you played on as we say once you're a nick you're a nick for life so nick's fans will love you forever too played the game way it's supposed to be played and if you listen to him like look no situational

basketball student of the game like it's an honor to have you on our podcast, man. And we appreciate you. Appreciate it, man. He was awesome. Love him even more now. Intense. He was one of those guys that you didn't fuck with in the locker room, clearly, as JR didn't know that with the popcorn story. Some poor ball boy at the deal with Kmart. He literally just thought he was part of a fun prank.

And then one of the toughest enforcers in the NBA is in his face. Yeah. I mean, I just, I love, he's just an intense guy. You could tell. He just wanted to fucking slam basketballs on people and fight. Like, that's a real tough guy. It's crazy. He played in an era where you couldn't smoke weed,

and now I feel like every player smokes weed. mean they did then too but like you couldn't do it they got drug tested yeah it it there that was a tricky situation yeah man to hear some of his stories and it was just it was cool man i love i always i always cleaned up with those kind of guys on the team that were just like hard motherfuckers. Like I, you always wanted, you always wanted a guy that ate a steak with like his hands, not a fork and knife.

Yeah. And that's kind of guy Kmart is, you know, just a tough motherfucker. Doesn't care about this. Doesn't care what other people think. Always had, you talk to him about any of his teammates.

He had all of his teammates back. You, even when he would criticize someone who was with love, you could tell he's a dude that would go to war with you yeah he's a glue guy definitely a glue guy jack did we hit the prop bed i got a little i i'm gonna give it to us we got two say i did it how we get it back oh repeat counts okay we hit it on the repeat i was scared to bring it up at first i was like let's see if he's cool and then he smiles like thank god with who jr's dm uh they're trying to get the pipe but what's the the the bet was the beef right no that was would we would we get two or over one and a half trying to get the pipe yeah we went over the we went over because i said it then he said it seemed like kenyon was a fan of that dm strategy also seems like uh yeah they

made t-shirts nicks fans would wear the yeah i had one of the t-shirts you have a nicks fan yeah you rock one i have before jack jack's got all like the funny cool little niche-y stuff that was a JR was absolutely one of the most beloved Knicks of that era cause he was reckless he played the way he DM'd you didn't know what was gonna happen he'd pull up from fucking way too far out

I mean he was the king of the no no no yes shot and strum the air guitar oh oh yeah he did do the this shit. That was one of the greatest celebrations. What's the legacy for this game?

The game is more just a talk hoops with Kmart. It's not like, it's a great series. The game itself is cool to see the Nuggets beat the Lakers because I didn't like that Laker team. I respected them. But I don't know if it's a great game itself. It's a solid game. I mean, it's an entertaining game. It's just not an iconic game like some of the ones

we've had on here. It is a great game. Don't get me wrong. It was great to see the players like Chauncey Billups and Kmart and Mello against Gasol, Kobe. There was great matchups but it still was a game two

of a Western Conference final. You know, so it was a little tough to find a legacy for this. The lasting image to me is Kobe and Mellow guarding each other because that was like a cool, just a cool matchup. Two dudes that respected the hell out of each other.

The lasting image for me is probably the hell out of each other the lasting image for me is probably the eyeballs that kmart gave the ball boy as he asked him who the fuck put the popcorn in my motherfucking car like that's my last that is by the way that's like a funny thing in movies you don't realize that people actually do that as a prank that's been that's been done in patriots that's a rich guy prank that's very rich guy prank yeah kmart's prank was fun the drug test prank is fun and then that's like when you do the one and then the guy takes it to tan and you're like you ruined a fucking probably really nice car yeah it probably smells like wise buttery popcorn every time he takes a drive after that i mean i'm sure he's gotta he probably had enough money to get that bad boy cleaned up i hope so or get a new car that's good imagine bringing that to a to a mechanic or

whoever has to clean that and they're just like what popcorn was it popcorn or was it popcorn from the packages that's what we didn't ask because i think it could have been the popcorn from the packages you know you put in like boxes when you ship shit. That's called popcorn too, I think. Oh, packing peanut kind of vibe? Yeah. Maybe it was that. I think it was popcorn.

With butter? I think it was Ombrenbacher. Yeah. Ombrenbacher. The bounce off Kobe in Bounce Pass is a good image. I think Mellow and Kobe is what I think it is. The name of the game. I mean, there's not really a great name for this, to be honest.

It's more like you named the series, the Kobe-Mello series, almost, to me. Yeah, it's got to be the Kobe-Mello series. We'll name the series. So stakes are pretty high. It is the Western Conference Finals. What? Oh, sorry, Jack. What did we forget?

Oh, not a lot good ep i got a little deep dive on uh went to the color palette hit pantones uh we were talking powder blue versus carolina blue earlier the nuggets powder blue is pantone pms279 unc blue is a proprietary pant Pantone 542 for all you color heads out there. Love it. Hey, sometimes it's for the color heads, man. Hey, we want them all. We take all the heads. You're good, Jack. The depth of research on this podcast knows no bounds.

I'm trying to get a job at the paint section at Lowe's after this. Clip that. bounds trying to get a job at the paint section at lowe's after this clip that oh let's score it stakes i don't think the stakes are crazy high i would go like seven two i mean it is seven two seven two for sure it was star power you gotta go crazy high on star power because tom cruise and jack nicholson are in there. It's a Niner. Will Ferrell, Kobe, Mello. It's a 9-0. We'll go 9-0. 9-0.

Is that not high enough, Jack? That's high. That's real high. Yeah, but Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise and Will Ferrell. And Terry Hatcher was there. I just saw him.

Terry Hatcher. She adds a, at least, yeah, makes a nine. Yeah. Terry Hatcher tipped the scales. That's what you're saying?

Jack loves a good Terry Hatcher.ipped the scales. That's what you're saying? Jack loves a good Terry Hatcher. Gameplay. It's a good game. It was good. They were down, what, Lakers were down 14 at one point? It's a great basketball game. There's a lot of entertaining players. Ariza with a great game.

K-Mar put up good numbers. Kobe and Mello were incredible. Billups, you gotta give it like an 8-4, 8-5. 8-4, 8-5. I'll give it 8-5. Name is, this is where it's going to get killed. I think it's like a 2-4 or something. The name is not.

2-6. 2-6. We'll give it a 2-6. What's that total list up at? 6.8. Not bad. 6.8. A great game.

It's just not an iconic game. But it is a great game. It's a really good game. 6.8. A great game. It's just not an iconic game. But it is a great game. It's a really good game. An iconic series. But it's not an iconic game. Yeah. We got to, you know, it is a game two. Yeah.

This was game seven. And they won. Could have been, you know, a different story. What do you got, Jack? I see you over there. That puts us right in between the Manning seven, was week one 2013 broncos ravens um and then just ahead of ricky's record texas first texas a&m it's good company six eight yep it's respectable that manning seven was badass too so it surpassed that i mean the star power really surpassed it

that's where we're really won but yeah i mean this was not an amazing like iconic game year because look the magic kind of trumped the calves in six then the uh then the lakers won in five in the finals it wasn't like a game that was as iconic as like the next year or the year before with the lakers celtics games this was straight lake show year yeah This was straight Lake Show year. Yeah. This was straight Lake Show year. We have to give it to them.

But follow Games With Names on YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. At Games With Names is the handle. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Rate and review. Comment the game you want to hear us do. That's all for this episode of Games with Names presented by Winbet. Thanks so much for listening again. And to our sponsors, I'm Sam Morrell.

And I'm Julian Edelman. Thank you so much to Kenyon Martin, and we'll see you the next game. Hey, I'm Gianna Pardenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports.

Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball.

And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke.