Games with Names - Lorenzo Neal and The Lo Man Wins Game | Vikings vs. Buccaneers (Week 9, 1998)

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Lorenzo Neal is in studio! (01:28) Lorenzo joins us on the couch. (1:29:39) We go back to November 1998. (1:30:45) We get into the Bucs and Vikings rosters. (1:38:41) We get into the game. (1:49:55) We score it. (2:11:19) We talk training camp life with Julian in this week's Chill Zone presented by Coors Light. Tickets for the Live Show are ON SALE NOW! GRONK & JULES PRESENT WELCOME TO THE NUTHOUSE! August 28th at MGM Music Hall at Fenway in Boston. Get Tickets Here!Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I used to get your boy mad. Who? Brable. Braves? I had Braves on skates, baby. Did you? Yeah, come on. He had long arms.

I'd make him make a decision. He tried to hold me off with them long. Chop, I'm coming to get you, baby. Welcome to games with names. They're Jack and Kyler. I'm Julian Edelman. We're on a search for the greatest game of all time. On today's episode, we are covering.

Vikings vs. Buccaneers Week 9, 1998, with legendary fullback four-time pro bowler and a man that could clear a hole in any crowd, Lorenzo Neal. And we're talking

90s smash-mouth football. I think we're grown men playing a kids' kids game getting a king's ransom. The legend of Michael. Alstad. Hey, diddle, diddle. Mike Allstott down the middle, 40 coming at you. And what he thinks of Harbaugh and the Chargers. He wants to be physical. He wants to beat you up. Look at Justin Herbert. Didn't throw the ball. He just didn't have the weapons.

And then we get into training camp and what it's really like for an NFL football player. In this week's Chill Zone, presented by Coors Light. Gotta stick around to the end. Let's go. Games with Names and production of IHeart Radio. November 1st, 1998 Raymond James Stadium, Tampa, Florida. The 7 and old Minnesota Vikings look to continue their pillage of the Sunshine State, but a gang of salty buccaneers had other plans. This is the low man wins game.

Welcome to games with names. Lorenzo, In one sentence, why did you pick this game, Week 9, 1998, Vikings versus the Buccaneers? You know what, this is a game I liked because everyone knows, if you saw the back of 2-1, it was too late, Lidanean Thomas,

and everyone knows it. charger years and LT made me and, you know, I just think that here's a place in Tampa Bay that, you know, Dungy, you have this mystique where you have Mike Allstad, who's huge, personal friend of mine, both of us were in each other's wedding, and great friend, and you had work done. So I think I was like the forgotten guy. People don't understand that when we played in Tampa, we had two different backfields. One was called Rino.

Rhino was me and Mike Allstock And Pony was when it was me and Warwick done So it was like Mike had over 900 yards rushing Warwick had a thousand yards rushing So it was just interesting because we could switch the backs And do a bunch of different deals So this game against Minnesota was just One of those games

We just lined up and said We're going to take your will and take your heart We're running downhill. Hey, diddle, diddle, Mike Allstott down the middle 40 coming at you. So we just lined up and said, let's go. So that's why I like that game. They were undefeated, and it was a humbling experience for it.

You know, watching this game and going through it, this was what the football I grew up on was. Exactly, right? Just 12, 11, 12, 13 personnel goal line. You know we're running it. We know we're running it. Mono e mono. Who's going to win the matchup? Who's going to quit?

Who's going to quit? Exactly. And this was the epitome of it, especially this game. I mean, watching like, we'll get. into the game, but this was just fun. I loved work done. I loved you as a kid because you were bopping around. Everyone saw you because L.T. and all the moves and stuff. But this, this was like the era right before they got really good, the buccaneers, they had the defense, were trying to get the offense. This is before the Gruden trade. This was just like a huge parallel to my watching

of football as a kid. You know, this was my era, 1998. Um, is this the greatest game of all time, though? No, no, I'm not going to say, we ask all our guests. You know what, don't try. Don't, don't, don't because you're a patriot. Don't, I, I go way back, believe it or not, Belichick was my D.C. when I was with the Jets. Yeah. So I've been knowing Belichick forever.

I even go back for him now. You're talking about the great, the goat, without a doubt, he's the goat at Tom Brady. When you talk about quarterbacks, it's crazy because I knew Tom before he was Tom. I knew Tom when he was just his little kid because Marine Brady, Moe, went to Fresnel State. with me yeah so i was at fresno state she's a pitcher you know so tom would come down to fresno tom's little dude mo was dating my cousin charlie jones yeah so it's crazy just how that you know the how things just come back full circle and it's an interesting moment and you asked tommy this if he tells you if this happened i'm in cincinnati and we're playing the patriots and what year

he was like he was sitting because drew was playing okay bletto was playing you know he comes over talking And I was like, man, he's like, it's, you know, it's frustrated, of course. And I said, man, don't get ready, stay ready. I said, you never know when this game change, you just, you know, and he's, of course, you know, saying, this was having a conversation. And I think it was like, a week or two later. The Jets. The Jets. He gets hurt.

And Tommy goes. So it was like, I think I had something to do with that. Let's go. So tell Tommy I had something to do with that. I'm going to. I spoke it into his listen. Tell him, Tommy, let him know that low Neil talked to everything you know. Early Brady.

Game one. Game one of that. season against the Bengals. Game one. There we go. There we go. What's your best Belichick story when he was D.C. and the Jets? It just, Hillman Parcells had this unique relationship.

I remember just the way that they would walk around and we had Peppers and some crazy guys. I played. Pep was my coach. Oh. Oh. Man, you know, pep be getting on Matt getting the most, that weird. And then Maurice Carton? Yeah.

These dudes are crazy. Yeah. They are. They will. M.F you. I'm like, I'm like, damn. I was like, this place is crazy. How just they were.

Adrian Rail had a thousand yards. That's one of the years that had it blocked for it. But it was just Parcell, he was so funny. Him and Belichick, this is the way that they push those buttons. I remember guys were fighting. He goes, you guys stop fighting. One of you're scared and the other ones glad of it. I mean, it's like watching two pillows, just the things that they said.

The one-liners. The one-liners. Exactly. Exactly. So Belichick was always good and it's always good to me. I even called him a couple times. and, you know, hey, I want to come to New England, man. I didn't win a Super Bowl.

I'm tired of losing to you guys. You just laugh, but he's Pro Bowl, of course, the coach. Yeah. Just a, it's interesting times. It was a great career, but love Belly. Yeah. What about Parcells? He ever get an ass chewing from him?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Parcells, he just, when you, if you knew you played a bad game, you just, like, kind of walk. You know how it is. Yeah. He was like, golly, I know, every play, everyone, you know, the media coming to you, hey, great game, great block, all this stuff. But in your mind, that night you're going out, you're thinking, God, I know the meeting.

You come in, you drive in, everyone's like you have a good game, and you know you blocked, you didn't block a guy, you fell down, ran the wrong route, you came out of your break tour, and you just, you know how it goes. And these coaches like, oh, you thought you played, well, what's this? What's this? And just keep rewind. And you were like, okay, why? Why are you doing this?

Okay, coach, I get it. Why are you going to continue? And sometimes you want to say something. And it's like, isn't it crazy that you can strangle every one of your coaches? Like, I, sometimes you can, and you can whip them. It's not like you can't kick their ass. Yeah. But when they get on you like that, you just feel like a little, it's like, wow. It's the accountability thing.

Yes. And it made you. Better. It made you better. I mean, you didn't want to go in and be embarrassed by the boys or as far as the boys. You know what I mean? There's nothing. It's kind of like when your dad, he did something wrong.

He didn't say he was mad, but he was disappointed. And just give you the look. And that disappointment sound or that humiliation in front of everyone, that sticks with you. And that makes you think about it when you're going in and you have to do that goddamn play and you install that play again. And you're like, I'm not fucking that thing up again. So I fully, fully agree. Now, when you watch the game nowadays, what's going through your mind compared to how you,

you played almost when did you retire? 2009 yeah so you still you you played through still brutal era because i would say in my career i went in 2009 to 20 like at like 12 it started changing right right and that's when like you started getting those more flat you know what i mean right the game is changed but i think it's changed because culture and everything has changed yeah you think about a guy coming across the middle john lynch those guys they touch you up don't come in here again guys would you know I played the game where I led with my head if I I couldn't play this game right now yeah because I live with it but you understand they trying to do it for the best to

keep you healthy but it's like you look at just look at the world we live in high school players now are getting paid college players are getting paid more than NFL players and it's like so you're weak and and the thing about it is it's tough it's just tough because yes I understand what you're trying to do and what you're trying to do but you're also weakening a game you're weakening men you're giving people a way out i think you're you're changing not just sports but you're changing the dynamics of who we are and what we meant to be in accountability now if you're whole accountability hey guys want to be traded look at the man to be traded i want out and teams have to you know go with the flow so it's like because you tried to help now you have given too much

way and yes do i think you shouldn't be able to use the helmet no you should be able to use the helmet now i think we're grown men playing a kids kids game getting the king's ransom and you understand what you sign up for just i think the league needed to do a better job of taking care of the guys afterwards or taking care of them doing if they're going to sacrifice and do those things you know you know that so just do the right thing and let guys play football Now, I don't like, I think it's great that you can't chop guys from the back of the legs now. Offense linemen used to hit guys. No, I think those things are great.

If you're trying to take a guy, knee out, no, they'll cut guys, certain things. I like that. But every now and then a good crack back. Come on, you know you love that crack back, hitting a guy. And it's just like, hey, hello, right when he turned, oh, you got it. I think those things are a part of the game. Certain things, to me, are a part of the game that you shouldn't change. Yeah, it's tough.

It is. It's tough, but you look at these contracts. Right. I mean, he got to keep him on the field. Right, you do. You know, he got to keep him on the field. Why was the 90s the best football now? I think 90s, people were viving to try to out do the 80s

because you knew the 80s is just hard. And the game was starting to change in 90s, certain things. More people wearing knee braces. So 90s was just still the big safety. The guys that would still want to hit you, you know, Ronnie Lott was leaving, and here comes Darius, and here comes the John Lynch's, you know, be, doc, and it was like, okay, they looked up to those guys.

And so you went through those transitions, and then it's now it's like, okay, Troy's gone, Paul, Moly. So it's like, what safety just brings fear like it used to be? You have a couple. Now, I think I'm going to say the guy still don't hit. They're still going after, but the game is different. It's very different. But I think my personal opinion is when you, like,

safeties now, you have to cover tight ends. Right. You got to be able to play in space. You got to, you know what I mean? Just because these, these tight ends now are receivers. A. B, safeties get money taken out of their pocket with big hits now. Right. And ain't nobody get paid for how many knockout hits you get.

What do they get paid for? Interceptions. And these little kids have been farming that since these little seven on seven. that you get paid if you touch the ball, TFL, or, I mean, PbUs, and picks. So they don't even go for the hit no more because you want to get the money. Right. Like, that's kind of like where I, that's kind of how, because these guys are huge, fast, strong.

It's a little smaller because they're faster as far as like linebackers. There's 235-pound linebackers now. When I first got in the league, Ray Lewis was 260. Right. You know what I mean? But he could move, you know what I mean? But like, it's silent. The game is just changed.

It has. You know what I mean? And people want those stats because stats turn into dough. And when you look at the tight-in position now, tight-ins, most of the tightens, you want them, they're too fast for linebackers and too strong for a safety. Because you changed the game. You had safeties that used to be able to cover,

but now these safeties are just too strong. Just pound them, beat them up, so you've got to double them. So there's certain things, elements of the game that you have to compensate for because you have went with, you know, more of the hybrids, because it's more of sideline to sideline, because teams aren't patient enough to say, I'm a lineup and I'm going to go right at you.

And that's why when you look at November and December, teams that usually win, usually can run the ball. Even the Patriots, when you guys were, win. That was what we did. And we had James Devlin, and he said hello because he loves you to death. Oh, y'all, tell Jay, what up? And that's what made you guys?

Everyone thought, oh, the Patriots got Brady. No, they knew that if you did, If you put eight, nine in box, guess what? You were going to hurt people. Walker was going to hurt people. When y'all had Moss going to hurt. So it was like, dare you. So, and that's, but when you run the ball, Corey Dill, another guy blocked for in Cincinnati,

tough, get downhill, can run physical. So you guys, everyone talks, no, this was not a finesse team. It was still physical. And that, when you can be two-dimensional, you're hard out. It's a tough out. And, I mean, you look at the last five, six Super Bowl winners. I mean, Philadelphia Eagles, they ran the shit out of the ball. They tried throwing it the first four weeks.

It wasn't until the by week that they said, hey, let's run the ball. We have the best running back in the league. We got a best line in the league. And then we'll set up our past game through play action. You know, you look at the Rams when they won. They had Gurley. He was a stud, and they had off the run game. You know, everyone, we all fascinate to make this such a spread-em and shred-em game,

but still, fundamentally speaking, and, like, the teams that run the ball, like you said, late in the year, are the teams that go on to win the Super Bowls. Because you can control the game. Control the game. Not the Niners were doing that, you know, a couple years ago when they had everything in place.

They were still one of those teams. Hell, against the team that we're going to watch, Vikings, rather. Remember they threw the ball eight times? Yeah. NFC championship. I mean, you only threw the ball eight times. Jimmy G.

Yeah. You know, eight passes. The rest was just running. When you can. and run the ball and just make teams quit because it checks your heart. You just got to be like, man, as a guy, it's four yards, three yards, and boom, first down, it just kills the momentum. Yes, demoralize the defense.

And even when you're the guy and, like, when you're on offense and a team is running the ball on you, it takes you out of your rhythm. Yep. It's like when you're sitting there on the sideline, you're going over your place for the next goddamn dry. All right, we got the third down. You get ready. All right.

First, yeah. Oh, they just got three yards. Oh, shower we're up six yards? Right. How the fuck can we get out there? That part. And that's, and that's, you know, it is, I mean, when you have a big explosion play touchdown, it's so damn quick sometimes, you're like, man, we were just on office, we got our fuel,

let's go. Right, right. No, but it's funny. The game has definitely changed. I know you interviewed me, but when did you know you belonged? Was there, where's, I remember playing it, and I'll tell you mine, and tell me yours, I know I was caught you off guard there, but. Yeah, no, I know.

I remember when I was playing. with the Saints and we're playing in Mankato the Saints the friggin it was the it was we called the cheese belt league Chicago Bears everyone was out there in Minnesota so we're playing against the Chiefs a little round Robin and Ronnie Lott was on the Chiefs that's fucking awesome you guys had round robin practices in training camp which is like the greatest reps unreal unreal unreal reps because you get so sick and tired when you're going against your own guys for so long and they know your fucking tricks you know their fucking tricks you get to use your tricks new guys two times.

Can you explain that what that means for the audience? Round Robin, they used to have joint practices. We have joint practices now, but it's usually with two teams, just one and two. They used to have three teams, and so they would circulate in situation, all the practices out, so you're getting different reps against different teams. It's like a smorgasbord, shporg, a fucking football. Right. Like Chicago Bears was there.

So we all, so we would fly to training camp. We practiced at the University of Cross. And so we'd bus, the Rams were there, you know, friggin' Chicago, the Bears were there. Philadelphia, I mean, Minnesota Vikings. So it was like four or five teams in a area. So one day you're here. They would come to your, so it's just like you got to practice against other teams, and it just made practice that much better.

They never had that at my time. I know, I know. It was really cool. That's like some like Pop Warner jamboration, you know, you waded, you can see the other teams, see what's up. Right, right, right. And it was awesome. I remember, and we went against Kansas City, and we kept running boss, back on strong safety, boss, boss, boss, and me and Lott was just going at it. I was like, damn, we got to get him, kept going.

And Ronnie kept going. This is old Ronnie and the chiefs. He's still laying the wood. He still trying to lay the wood. And after practice, he didn't say nothing to me. I saw him look at me and he said nothing. So I walked off and, you know, and my coach, Jim Skipper, my running back coach, who's talking Ronnie. And then he said, hey, Neil, come here.

Let me tell you something. Rook, come here, Rook. And he said, four two gave you the ultimate. He said, the man gave you the ultimate confidence. What do you mean? He went over to my skipper, my running back coach, and said, that little 22, whoever that guy is, you got something there. And that was saying, then he told me that.

And I was like, you couldn't tell me. And I called Mom and Daddy. You know, I'm running out. Shut up coming, baby. But, yeah, that was kind of the moment that I knew I kind of belonged. My moment, you know, I would say my first preseason game, you know, in New England. England, that was training camp two days. We didn't have joint practices yet, or we didn't that year. Right, right. But I was changing positions and I was mentally just all over the place,

good practice thinking I'm going to get cut as a seventh rounder, bad, or bad practice thinking I'm going to get cut. Good practice. Oh, I don't know what the hell is going on. Doing the numbers game, because you know, you're playing the numbers game, which the numbers game is when you're a guy on the fence of making the team, you're counting how many running backs are you think the team's going to make. I think maybe four or five. We're probably going to do six set receivers, maybe seven because they got a hybrid special. Like, you're playing these number games. And so in New England, which you're, you're accustomed to with the Jets program in Parcell, you're never really told that a boy, like when you do your job. But you're definitely told when you don't do your job. Absolutely.

And so going into that first game, a lot of things led up. I was playing a bunch of special teams. A guy, Wes, got hurt. I was going to start a receiver. This was Tom's first game back off the ACL of 2008. So everyone was kind of tensioned up, you know, with that. And I go out on kickoff, and my first play in my first NFL game, I make a tackle. And then, you know, go out there.

And then they go three and out or something. and then first punt, I'm returning punts and there was a penalty. So they re-line up and they punt again and I house it for 75 yards. And then I had Tom's first catch off of his ACL and like I had five catches. And like before that, I didn't even think I could like play on the team because I was just in such a crazy headspace with like, you know, the days of practice, log in this. coaching points, learning an offense, learning a new language, because, you know what I mean? So you didn't really get to see it until you threw it out against someone else. You know, and then once I did that, then I was like, all right, man, I can fucking play this

kid. I can play. And so that was my moment. Right. Right. Yeah. That's freaking awesome. I love listening to people when their moment or when it, you know, appear that, okay, I belong here.

And I think that's awesome, man, because I loved watching you play. I was a fan. Wes had played with the Chargers. I remember telling Wes, you're going to be in this league. You know, he gets cut with Tim DeWites there, and he's just like, dude had a house call too. And I was like, trust me, you're going to be okay. They tried to bring him back.

But, of course, this history, what happened with him. But I remember just watching you play, that Super Bowl. I'm there at the game watching it in Atlanta, where you guys played against the Falcons. Yeah. The catch you made and just the way that you go about your business. the consistency and it's crazy because you know guys talk a bunch of junk and it's like and it's like but people they take it as we don't players don't but other people like oh this guy's racist

when you say that white boy got some black any that white boy can play you know what I'm saying it's a it's a sign of endearment it is and people don't take that too offense yeah you know what I'm like I got that I was proud of it you know I said that Bobby Washington that's the ultimate compliment from a brother. If he says you play like them, that means he really respects you. Exactly. And you see him trying to beat you up? And I said, white boy got hard too. I said, they can't take it. And he's just, you watch, you and Wes, and just you fed off of it. It's like, and it's like you ain't let nobody punk you. And I was like, man, this dude got it. And he's got that it factor. And that's what I think that those things that people don't understand about football, the competitive and what it does and how it brings together.

together in the unity and people like man oh no football is i think it's one of the best sports and you think about life military sports that's what brought this country together yeah blacks whites wasn't able to get along and then you got sports bringing culture together forcing people together and understanding differences what they like what they don't who's who and you get to realize man all some some of us have the same background some us don't have the same back but you can understand and accept people from who they are and sports have a huge thing to do with that that's true and that's because there's one common goal everyone wants to win usually or even if you want to just ball out that's you having to win your play you know so that that's

that's why it's the ultimate example yep because there's guys you didn't like that you played with but you respected the hell out of and that you needed you needed that person oh yeah because it's the ultimate team game 11 men have to do their job for six seconds and if one guy fucks up it could be colossal fuck up for the whole team the quarterback throws interception it looks like it's the quarterback's fault but they didn't see the left tackle get beat or they didn't see the side adjustment that wasn't made by the receiver or they didn't see inside out from the fucking center you know like there's all these things that are connected and that's why it's the ultimate thing to watch and it's so crazy jules that you say that because even a guy you might not like and a guy you might not go to dinner with,

when he makes a play, you're yelling, you're jumping, you're congratulating. And that's what people don't understand. You are, you love this game. You love this game. And that's what I think that a lot of people don't understand and what it, what it means to be a, you know, a professional athlete or to play, just to play sports in general, because it makes you uncomfortable. People are you like, man, I just don't like it, but you're like, man, for that moment, for those 60 minutes or whatever it may be, whatever sport, you can put your differences aside and come together and we have one common goal and that's success. But that's usually only for the winning teams.

Yeah, you're right. You're right. Because the teams that can act as a team the most usually go out and win. Yeah. You know, when you get individualized with certain things here and there, that can bring a team away from each other. That's true. And it ultimately comes from the leadership.

Your best players have to be the self. selfless player, the most selfless player. At least that was the example from where I was. Our best player, our highest paid player, was the first guy and the last guy to leave. Guy had everything in the world, three Super Bowls by the time I got there. You met him when he was just little Tommy.

I met him when he was Tom fucking Brady already. And to see how he worked still when he was 10, 11 years in the league, it was like, man, what motivates this guy? And that made the 53rd guy in the team say, If fuck, if he's working like that, then I have no choice but to work like that. So I think it's all, it's all connected. It is. It goes hand in it. And it is.

The team, like, because you look at some of the most talented teams with the best players. Talent wins football games. Team unity wins championships. That's, that's, that's it. We got to put that on a T-shirt. Okay, let's do it. Me and you, baby, me and you. Exactly. Hey, me and you. We'll definitely do that. Helvetica, nice little font. I'm a more of a future guy.

You know what I mean? I like the bag. Talking to you, you just spit smash mouth football. That's like such a nostalgia that we all crave. Why do we crave that? I think we crave it because we know it's right. Like, you know what?

You know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, you know what? You probably shouldn't eat that and I'm going to go work out. Because we know that's right. When we take away from those things that are right, it feels good for a second, but you know it's not necessarily right. When you're talking about winning championships and those things, you're like, God, here we're going to go.

We've got to go run. And man, he's going to be on me. Belichick's going to freaking, we got to do this extra. Man, film study is going to be another hour. Okay, we got all those things. And if he said, hey, take the day off, be like, you might leave, but you're saying, was that right? Yeah. And I think that's what it is, man. That toughness is about, you know what's right.

My dad always said, life's hard, but it's simple. We all know what we have to do. It's just hard to do it. It is. You know, it's not easy for the everyday man to get up at 5 a.m., go work for his family for not much, come back to, you know, a bunch of bills. That's hard. It is. You know what I mean? But he knows what he has to do to make his family live that. And that's the example. the example of my dad you know what i mean that's what he did so like it's hard but it's simple we all know what we have to do you know but do you think this pendulum of the NFL i think it's on the sway back with you know having more fullbacks having more smash mouth football playing more

controlling football game with through the run game then getting like it's swinging backish because maybe the defenses are small do you think the pendulum's going to swing back i do you think the pendulum's going to swing back? I do on certain teams because if you look at Baltimore, still run, get hard, they still physical, get down the Hill. Exactly. Big McCard. I think when you think about a team like L.A. Chargers,

another hardball brother. You think about he wants to be physical, he wants to beat you up. Look at Justin Herbert, didn't throw the ball a lot last year. Play action. He just didn't have the weapons. Didn't have a great running game last year. Running backs were injured. Now I think this year with Hampton, who

they got, the running back in the draft, bringing in other backs i think you'll see the chargers in you know kind of impose their will because they're going to be physical so i think when you can be physical but it's a mindset when i played fullback i would be pissed when they said we go let's go ace let's go ace and i was like oh okay what is ace too tight yeah you know the two tights look at this guy yeah right yeah ace is two tight ends 22 personnel 21 personnel is two backs full back and in a tail back you know 22 personnel Big boy personnel. Exactly.

So I took it personal, even though coaches the main low, it's just what we're doing, we're trying to spread them out, but I took it personal when I was off the field. I said, I'm going to come in this game. When I come in, I make you a poll. I'm going to impose my will on linebackers. Anybody's in my way. I'm running this track.

Either you're going to quit or I'm going to quit. Somebody's going to get out the way. And so that's what you say, you know, web drive, because it's what you need to do. and what has to be done. You don't want to. Sometimes, should I cut this guy? Oh, should I, oh, should I take?

No, I know it's what you're supposed to do. And let's go helmet to helmet, that's face-on mono-e-mono, and it hurts where you get the sting gals with your body. C-7. Yeah, yeah, yeah. C-4, C-7. I get it. I get it.

That's why I wore that big cowboy collar because, man, I always use my head, and it would stop my neck from going back. So it was just like, let's line up, let's do it. So I think it comes back, comes back, but you've got to have guys that are willing to make that sacrifice and commitment to run in there and not just try to position block. I want to create a new line of scrimmage.

I want to create a new spot to give the tail back a two-way gut. What goes into the decision on the cowboy collar versus like the neck roll or like... Yeah, see, the cowboy collar, I loved it because the cowboy collar kind of had my whole head kind of. I got a big head. It was heavy enough. So it kind of made it all encompassed.

The cowboy collar, the neck roll kind of you can go a little bit further back. and it's a little spongier. The cowboy collar is more firm and it goes down your back. It's meaner. It's mean or yeah. Yeah. And it's a longer pad.

So it's neck roll just tied up to your shoulder pads. So when it moves, your shoulder pads moves. But this cowboy collar, you put on actually, it's almost a little shoulder pads underneath. So it's long. A girdle. Yeah. So it protects you more.

Yeah. The old shock pads. Remember you used to wear those? Yeah. Absolutely. I wore them. I had my little. Now you don't even wear pads.

It's crazy, bro. Right. I mean, and I'm a sucker to it too because I became a receiver and I used to wear the smallest goddamn pads so they couldn't grab me. Get rip and dip. You got to get low. Get skinny. Rip and dip, baby.

Get skinny, baby. Watching this game was incredible with you at fullback and all stock. Oh my God. Which is neck cowboy car. You said, that's rhino. That's rhino person. That's a pony. I got tingly.

I haven't felt that way in a while. What was the personnel was just done in regular? Regular. Yeah. That was regular. Pony, you would go in with Dunn, Rino, Big Boys. Did you ever have all three, are you guys out there at the same time? We might do when you moved.

Like a goal line? Yeah, when you move Wark to having motioning out. Yeah, that's just, I mean, that's just personnel. You're trying to get like 13, 22, so you can get their defense out there. Get him out of there. You get a linebacker out, and then you got these two coming downhill. Right. We'll be right back after this quick break.

Hello, I'm John Lithgow. I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast. That's one small step for man. It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space. You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen. That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't.

Predisposition to depression, alcohol abuse, and suicide. We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons. What do you say, Buzz? Another beer? And triumph over addiction. You see you, Buzz Aldrin. Good luck to you. And become a true hero.

Buzz and I will proceed into the lunar module. Not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself. Buzz, we intercepted a Soviet radio transmission. Starring me, John Lithgow. Can you put it through? Can you translate? On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private.

with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner.

He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect podcast network tune in on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40,

a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight white-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you, that's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good start. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

So what happened at Chappaquittic? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News, it's Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells. you. The story really became about Ted's

political future. Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquittic is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse?

Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. now you're on believe yeah on the believe network matt money smith got to check it out so me and money smith it's a great show he's a voice of the chargers money smith's been uh working radio

and tv for years it's a great show go to believe to download it and uh it's a lot of fun also with uh follow me at lorenzo neil on on instagram and i worked with the niners too i do some stuff about your boy John Lynch. I do KPIX Channel 5 and also do a radio show with 95-7 the game. So you do step for the Niners and the Chargers. So you're dialed with both? Try to be dialed with both. Are you like with the beat riders? Like you have contacts with all those guys. They're giving you inside info. What are we looking like with the Chargers this year? Let's start out with them. How we get a beat? You know what? I'm excited for him. So am I. I think the Chargers went out. They drafted Mario Hemp. I'd love him as a running back.

This guy can run. He's big boy, good feet. He reminds me of the San Diego Chargers, Fresno running back. Remember him? Oh, yeah, Pittman? No, the big boy from Fresno. Yeah. Okay, are you talking about?

I know. Like in the late 2000s? Are you a Turner? No, no. Fresno State. He had like two really good years, three really good years. He got drafted to the Chargers, his number 12th pick. He was, yeah, didn't have.

Oh, Ryan Matthews. Ryan Matthews. He kind of had. that same body doesn't he yeah but they're big guys big guy big and can run yeah can run i think this guy's going to be the truth and you went out and got a tight end and haven't played a lot of 12 person he didn't play on the line in 12 but he can move uh forgetting his name look chargers drafted him the tight end this year and they went and got three receivers you have to realize who will receivers because mike williams just retired mike williams retired but you just you just sign i like that little

macaque oh macaque i think he's going to be a great situation receiver for them to he's unguarded yeah he's going to start at x and z but you've got gasin there's a tight end mark gassin is a tight end but he's not going to he's not going to play 12 person he'll if they do they're going to detach him so he but he can run he's fast very athletic you mean they're going to play too tight end they'll play tight end they'll play tight too when they go 12 though they'll detach him because he can't block he's just but he can he's a nightmare and he yeah he can be like an age and then the two receivers kid from carolina um who's we got they got Trey Harris went Ole Miss.

Trey Harris, just from Ole Miss. Condry Lambert Smith. That was second round or first round. Second. Second, yeah. And he just supposed to fly. He can fly. And that would be good for Mokonki in the tight end.

If they can get them meat and intermediate and you have someone that can blow the top off with the good, you know, run game, then you can get those explosion plays with the guy that can throw them. Exactly. I think the biggest thing, everyone talks about, you know, you lose in Bolsa. But I think the bigger loss for the charges with Puna Ford, Puna, big Puna in the middle. middle was tough but now both of you know unfortunately the injuries

so you didn't seem so but I think the charges front Cleo Mac is still playing at a high level you went out in free agency made some things happen they feel tough too ever since you know Harbaugh got there which is a very

it's a very rare thing to have an offensive minded coach have the label of toughness right you know what I mean but Harbaugh has that and then he brought over did he bring over the Ravens guy yeah he brought over the Ravens McDonald?

No, he went over. He brought over the Ravens front office GM. And then but the Michigan, DC that was with the Ravens.

What's the Michigan? Yeah. Jesse Mentor? Jesse Mentor is a DC. DC. Yep. And then the Ravens, he's a GM now

for the Chargers that he's doing a great job of bringing it. That's why they brought a lot of Raven guys in last year. What's the name? Joe Horace. They're going to have,

that's a tough division. It's a tough. And the Raiders, like, low-key. They got better. You got Pete Carroll there. You know there's going to be something. Dude, hardball's, how about this? Harbaugh's the least decorated coach in the FC West.

Yeah. Pete Carroll won a Super Bowl. Think about all the coaches. They all won a Super Bowl, except Harbaugh. Except Harbaugh. Isn't that crazy? Think about, and think about what his, look at his, his decorated, he's a decorated coach. And he's the least decorated coach in that conference.

It's going to be tough. Would you like to play for Harbaugh? Oh, absolutely. I love Jim. I played for John in Baltimore And I'm just making sure I'm an old man Your last couple

I believe you said It retired you because they hit so Yeah Yes yes my neck hurts right now Trust me Trust me Yeah but he was believing He was in San Diego

At USD When I was with the Charter So he would come over to the facility So I've been knowing Harbs for a while I'm trying to get Harbs And he said he might do it Guess what I'm trying to do What I'm trying to do?

Bring training camp to Fresno the valley the valley hardball you listen to this coach you he's seriously he talked about I brought the mayor on Harbaugh was talking about Get that real heat

Yeah he did that real heat You want to heat it up Let's heat it up baby It's hot It's hot down that Central Valley bro You put that window down About 104 Okay okay you know about it baby

104 that's on a good day Baby 108 105 like dry heat though dry it's dry it's dry it's dry It's dry it's dry it's dry And it'll toughen you up And we got the biggest wave down there not a wave pool not the wave pool not the way no it's not a way it's yeah it's uh god drew breeze is affiliated with it you what's uh what's the name in that slater slater slater it's a

kelly slater we got a big surfboard ranch out there bro you're basically in la more baby in the l town so i'm bringing you out jules you're coming out i'm come i'll come out surf ranch surf ranch baby i'm bringing you heard that we got the guy he's coming out me and jules do some surfing Everybody goes, sir. Did you see that meme with Jim Harbaugh? Do you see that one? The meme? With him like behind the curtain watching Justin Herbert.

Oh, no. I didn't see it. Oh, my God. Harms is great. Dude, he is a fun coach. I almost signed with the Niners. Did you? With when I was a free agent,

me and him sat for 45 minutes. And this is when there was like the beef between him and the GM with the Niners. Remember that? All that stuff. And so he goes, like, tell me, what do you want? He basically like, handling the contract and I knew like I'm sitting there like is this kosher but we just sat and had a dip and talked football yeah like he's like you want

a dip man he's just a football guy he is he loves the game love him they love him he gets him he's a great man he could tell he loves his family comes from a great family they just love football black to his dad jack yeah jack gives some great stories this was going around the internet a lot the other day he's so sick look at him that's classic What is he doing? That's so odd. That's kind of weird a little bit. It's like, okay, arms.

So you played for eight teams. Do you think of yourself as a charger? Yeah. You know what? The Saints, the four years, was amazing. Got drafted there. Believe it or not, I was leading league in Russian. I went 73 yards, first play from scrimmage against Atlanta Falcons, baby.

Took it house call, baby. And nobody can't come get. Your boy was getting them up and getting them down. I was running fo' fo' back in a day. Just letting you know. Hey, just like, you know. You don't play that long and now have some superpower. In the first week, we played against the Houston Oilers at the time.

I had like 80 or a half, 89, against the Houston Oilers, first week one with the same, with the same thing, I had like 70 yards on like 10 carries. Wow. Your boy was, I was, I was, I was, I was a hell of a yard per carry. You beat Houston 33 to 21. What I run for. I mean, give me some of my stats. I don't know what a little. Let me get you here.

I got you. You had 13 carries, 89-yard rushing with a long of 29. Come on, 13 for 89. Hey, but you're putting on the turf, though. Fumble. Did I? They didn't. Why you got a prince in that part, bro?

Come on. I mean, come on. Hey, just real facts here. Just facts. You didn't lose it, though. You recovered it. That's fake news. I recovered it, fake news.

That's fake news. I fumbled it, but I recovered it. So is it actually a fumble? If I recovered it, I mean, I don't know. It's not a turnover. I didn't turn over the ball. Got it back. That's like the saddest thing.

you see a fullback fumble. I was not an eye. I was playing table. I know, but I'm just saying in general. I know. It is because you know he's not going to get it all again. I get it. You're like,

he's been waiting for that time. I've been waiting. He's been waiting for that in a long time. I see you get a little ebonics. He'd been waiting. I heard that he'd be waiting in there. I could appreciate that, baby. Give me somebody.

You already been, he'd be waiting up in here. Some more info on that game. Give me some more info. Warren Moon? He also had two fumble. He turned him over, though No, he didn't, but he threw a pick Okay, okay

21 for 32, 241 yards, touchdown, interception three sacks Go to Nick week two What'd your boy do against Atlanta Falcons So, yeah, so, you know, I'm just kind of excited Since we're going down memory lane here, I mean, I might as well You guys beat the Falcons, 34, 31 Over the game, 34, you had Let's just look at my staff

You had eight rushing attempts, 86 yards and a touchdown With the long of 74. Two weeks in a row, baby, boys putting the day. that's insane right then this happened broke the ankle deltoid ligament screws plates how Scott case remember like yesterday I got a ball running a sweep and he's trying to talk me on my shoulder and I try to rip underneath and he leg whipped fell right on my butt his butt with that rule you can't even do that now can't do it yeah yeah so if you were playing nowadays you probably wouldn't ever have that you'd still be a tailback set exactly exactly I probably only played like maybe five

I have six years, though, because I ran hard. I just, you know, I ran hard. But the Saints was good, good team. It wasn't a good team. We were horrible. We were the Ains. The next couple of years, it was just horrible. Jets was a fun stand.

It was one year, and they got traded to Tampa Bay. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. Shoot, Jets, we're one game from the playoffs. We played Detroit last week. All we need to do is beat Detroit. Barry Sanders on the team, held him under 30 yards, the last play. I remember that.

That play. That play, bro. We would have went to the... That was Parcell's first year there. Yes. Yes, I was with Parcells there. Yeah. And then the next year, they went to, like, the AFC championship or something.

Yeah. They were getting ready. Yeah. They were a good team then. Yeah. And then from the Tampa, we've won game from the playoffs that happened there. And from Tampa, where did they go? Tennessee.

Tennessee. Do you play the Super Bowl? Super Bowl. Yeah. Lost to the round by one yard. Yep. The longest yard. That one hurt.

That one hurt. And we beat that one heard. And we beat that one. And we beat the Rams that year. Yeah, I remember. We went undefeated at home. We didn't lose a game at Adelphio Stadium at the time. Music City Miracle.

Against Buffalo. Yep. I caught that pass. I pitched it back to Wycheck. White Tech over to Dyson. Strike up the band, baby. Strike it up. That was freaking insane.

That game was incredible, too. That game was incredible. That's an incredible game. Incredible game. It really was. Shoot, block him for Eddie George. He was, that dude worked on. So let's go over some of the guys you blocked for.

you blocked for some incredible dudes. Oh, yeah. L.T. Lidane and Thomason in San Diego, worked done in Tampa Bay. Mike Allstott in Tampa Bay. Corey Dillon in Cincinnati. Yes. Don't forget about Eddie George.

He was on the cover of Madden when he was in Penn. But AG was tough. And Adrian Morel with the Jets who had a thousand yards. Yeah. I'm going to tell you, no one, I mean, L.T. worked hard, but Eddie George worked hard. Yeah. I mean, the hard work he did. La Danean worked hard too, but he's just gifted.

The guy who didn't work hard that would be a hall that I think is still a hall of famer that's unbelievable under everyone just don't, Corey Dillan, you got to see him. I didn't see. I wasn't there. I mean, this dude ran hard. He just, he didn't work out. I'm like, Corey, let's go work out. Tuesday, off day, let's go watch film.

He did a couple of times, but Dylan just. There's always a couple of those guys that just were touched by God. Touched by God. And if they maybe just. just farted a little more. Right. That part. That part.

Just what? I mean, just fart a little bit more. Just get a little bit out of you. Coach, buddy, I was, I'm feeling you. He's had a hell of career though still. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. I was played with those guys just like in the Chargers.

I mean, and then from, of course, from Cincinnati, went to the Chargers and Blockford Lidane and he was just, that dude wanted to win. Let's do a, let's do a, I'll say the name. You give me one word that comes up to your mind about. their running style, playing style, whatever style, anything that just comes up. Okay. L.T. Ledanyan Tomlinson.

Lightning in a bottle. Warwick done. Unhittable. Just, just, you've never seen him take a big shot. Just. Jitterbug. Jitterbug, yeah. Mike Allstock.

Bull in the China shot. Rino. Rino. Cory Dillon. Dillon. Dillanator. Mean. Angry.

Angry. I seen the guy knock out a guy. I was on Cincinnati. The year I was talked to your boy, Brady. He hit your safety, and he was, he ran him over. The safety coming in the hit, and he was out before he fell on the ground. Corey Dillon knocked him out before the guy hit the ground. He hit him so hard running him up.

Corey Dillan ran angry. Do you think a play like that or that style of play against the Patriots? Because then Bill brought in Corey Dillon when they won that Super Bowl. You think they see a game like that? Oh, I want that guy. 100%. 100%. 1,000.

1,000, that was, that was, that was just, yeah. He knew Corey had something. He knew, and he loved, he talked about Corey all the time. And, you know, I was on the different, the next generation. Yeah, right, right. But you missed Corey by like two years? Yeah, but I mean, I was in a completely, like that was, by that time, it was, it was a new team. Okay, yeah.

You know, the only thing we had Tom, you know, and a couple of the guys fell out, fall, Teddy was there for a little while, and he had some key pieces. But he used to talk about Cory Dylan. What did he say? He would say shit like, look, you're no freaking Corrie. Yeah. Because he knew Corey.

Because Corey wouldn't practice. He knew Corey was just like, yeah. He didn't knew on the game day. He would use Corey as an example to some other one who was in that good. Who thought he was a prima don't know Cory Dylan. Yeah. You're no Cory Dylan.

And he said the way you said that, does Belichick, you're no Cory Dylan. Get out of here. Give me a break. Like, we're not on the program. Sat for 12 years and watched him this club.

I know every Banner is in that fucker. That's stupid. That was crazy right there. That was crazy. Let's get back to Eddie George. Eddie George, hard worker, Dominator. That's crazy because he was a specimen too. Speciment. Dude, we went ran to hills

together. I went and ran. He's like I would say Derek Henry is kind of like in that realm. They don't run the same because he had higher knees. But like, just the sheer fact that like I know Derek Henry works his ass off. I see these videos.

You see him like, he pulling, yeah, Derek Henry works. He works. And he's doing all like the very like new age stuff where all his pliability, flexibility. This guy I heard like he's a monster and that's, you know, what you probably thought of Eddie George in those days. Yeah. And Eddie wasn't a talent it is. Like Corey, more talent. Le Danian, way more talent.

Age Morel, jittery, nice shakes, shit you down, not running hard, but he, you know, make you miss just boom one of those guys ah i'm not in and out but eddie was the guy that just i'm just gonna go here's who i am i don't have but i'm just gonna give you everything i got i mean the guy was i mean he was tough yeah he was tough could run sad speed but just that different type of tough yeah i remember he there's that one run that's like iconic of him pushing a guy and breaking the tackle you know what i mean yeah just you're it like no quit no quit no quit no He's going to give everything he got.

Can you break down each of their running styles? Yeah, I think that when you look at Corey, Dylan was explosive. Big. Big, strong, and could deliver a blow. So he was a punisher. Eddie was more that Kleisdale, that freaking Missouri trucks fire. You just knew here's four yards in a cloud of dust.

And every now and then, if he broke, he could hurt you. but he was just eddie six you know six four six five yeah big so big guy that's more straight ahead yeah he can give you one cut and get north and south he's just going to impose his will yeah where you out you know age morel just shifty he's going boom up and he's instead boomch work done was shifty but still smooth uh he's so low and elusive hard to hit out of the back Out of the back, the slip, going to shake you up. And Lydane and Thomas was just lightning in the bottle. He can beat you on an angle route.

He could beat you with speed. You never took a big shot. He'll sit you down, and he's out. And he did it effortlessly. I mean, this guy could run a post. You could line L.T. up as a receiver. He probably could have started a receiver. You motion him out.

Linebacker, have no chance. He's like Falk. Yeah. Yeah. Herman Marshall is kind of the same type him in town. Did you play with Sproles? Sprozy? The little waterbug? I called him a jitterbug. I call him a water bug. So I think that's what everyone called him. Yeah. We used to have a route. The angle route was called the

Sproles route because he was so dominant at it. He would hit you the two-way go. Oh, you cross your face. And then he would go because. Think about, do you, and not one of the reasons that, uh, that West, because you had Sproles and West. I mean, Sproles, West was started with the Chargers. Yeah. Think about it was. It was. him it was with danian michael t our backfield was nasty it was mike turner i don't know how in the hell you didn't play beat us but that that's the thing talent will win football games but a team wins championship what's up with these sand dude i was you you i was just with i was just with tonyo gates and my guy still to this day can't take that 14 to two season i'm like tonyo i wasn't on

that team i know i know but you just He goes, you just, I can't believe. He just sounds the same thing. Because it's you. Because you would, you just, you just breathe everything, patriots. It's a patriot. And it's like, dude, McCree, if you're watching this, sucker, why don't you just fall on the ground? I mean, we're winning the game.

And all he does catch the ball. And it's fourth, the third, they throw hell merry, right? McCree intercepts it. Oh, we got 21 on offense. It's only four minutes. Oh, fall down. We'll give the ball to 21. and we'll run a call.

He tries to run it back and get stripped. Troy Brown. I'm like, why? You know how many times that we watched that damn play? Just for what not to do. It's like what. No, for what to do on not giving up on a play. Right.

Bill used to always emphasize that, like going into playoffs. You'd have a cut up of like old Patriot stuff. Look, we're out of this game. Troy fucking Brown didn't think so. Game's over. No. Troy got it. You know what it is?

Oh my God. This is great. You ought to do stand up. No. I tried that once. Had that worked out? Like a fart in church? Okay.

It was actually all right. I was just terrified. I went to the comedy story. I did the roast. Oh, okay. Tom Brady roast. And so I went and practiced it. And that shit's hard.

Those guys are, you got to be. And it's like, you got to be able to like tell a story and like formulate. Right. And be able to go, you know what you're going.

bring it, yeah, hand out, weave it. Those dudes are smart. We entertain, like, you start dipping into other people's worlds. Right. You know, we were blessed and fortunate enough to go at the highest level of what we did. Yep. So it brings a perspective and a respect for all the people that do what they do at the highest level. Well said.

Yeah, I mean. Pull up how many yards LaDadian. See, you got me. Now you own this game. Pull up how many yards LaDani and Thomason had against the Patriots. But see how many had in the first half. Okay. The first half.

The FAC championship or divisional round. Yeah. Dude, the first half, and our, your coaches did, but sometimes coaches, I believe this, all things being equal, players make plays, coaches make decisions that help determine the outcome of games. If all things being equal, players are going to make plays. If you got, if you got Edelman, you're going to say, I'm playing press coverage, I got you, Jew, got you, and going to play press coverage and put you in the slot, you as a player, you're going to make a play. coaches have to determine the game play zone give this guy take it away you know it's bracket this guy let's make him look somewhere else because you know you're going to beat that that's a coach making decision that's going to determine the outcome of the game on that particular game

I think coaches going to make plays players going to make plays but coaches make decisions that determine the outcome that game didn't have to be close how many yards did he have in the first half if when you if you look at LT what he was doing in the first half and then how we just went away from the run game it was like this is not who we are and I think it got so close I hate bringing him up all the time but Bill used to say that shit all the time

he'd say players win you games coaches lose you games meaning you have to make the plays we can fuck it up which is true is what you're saying that that case you have to you know I know one that you would agree on I'm not saying it would have happened

but that Super Bowl when you guys playing against Seattle. I'm not saying it, but it's not saying y'all would have lost, but if you give the ball to Marshall, at least lose with him. Lose with Tom Brady throwing it to you. If you dropped the pass and Tom's going to you and dropped, guess what?

Would people be pissed off you? Yeah, but they said he went to the guy that who's been dependable. You know what I'm? That's all I'm saying. Why do you sometimes a coach say, I'm going to outsmart everyone else? Well, they didn't outsmart.

The thing is they. Time. They had that. They had that tendency. They showed that, like, same matchup. We got beat by that play in practice by our scout team 15 times. I remember vividly sitting on the sideline because, you know, or a Super Bowl practice, usually you're always doing something with the other team.

But the last couple practices, you're watching, you honed in. We're honed in on the defense to see how they're doing. They're honed it on us. And we're sitting there and they were getting creamed by that damn play. And it just so happened that they, put because they knew that if they put that personnel group in that there was like a spike that they would play that play like you know so if you watch before the game that's coach make a decision that's a coach making decision to determine the outcome of the game so that's the whole like

on the sideline when you know bellichick's looking at carol yeah wait for him to blink waiting and he didn't call a time out and he sent that personnel group because that's that's the that's the play that they thought they would probably maybe get. Wow. So there's always a, it's, it's chess. Yeah. But we were getting smoked by that play. And we had another corner in, and he ended up getting benched.

And they brought in Malcolm, who was an undrafted free agent, who was actually a fucking stud, like all year that year in practice and everything. He had a long, strong arm. He was physical at the line of scrimmage. And we had Browner, who came from Seattle, who was a long guy. And on that play, the coaching point was, Browner, you. Blow them the fuck up. And Malcolm, you break.

You go get it. Because they didn't run outside ever. They never went like, they never went like a two-way go. I'm going to slant or go out to the flat. I mean, we watched it. Watched it. It was like, you saw him. But it was insane that he actually executed as a rookie on getting put in the game second half of the Super Bowl.

Browner doing his job. You know, that was. do your job that's what people don't really remember is the play right before when dante haowtower took on a guard and tackled marshawn lynch in the hole on the one that's what saved the game right true true is the plays within the plays no no question no question so i had to do it manually so in the first half of this game which is the just to clarify is the 2006 division around game where the Patriots beat the charges 24-21. Yeah.

In the first hassle, Danian Tomlinson had 79 yards and a touchdown. Second half. Oh, no. No, because that's that just, well,

because I can minus it. Yeah, I can minus it. Yeah, I can minus it. Yeah, I can minus it. Yeah, I can minus it. So his total was he had 123 rushing yards, two touchdowns.

He also had two receptions for 64 yards. I think the first half, he didn't, second half, he barely, I mean, he touched the ball. I mean, like, six times, seven times. It was just, it was just,

he was just, he was, was in that mode he was ready to go a guy just like just wanting the ball and we just didn't do it well you guys you guys were up we were up see that that goes into the you run that goes into the you know the do you go out and win it or do you go out the four minute offense which you're the closer in that's what shanahan did that shanahan did that against you guys he said let's go kill him let's knock him out so he said let's throw the ball instead of just like look when you have times you try to get at you outsmart yourself he does that a couple times that's what he you know you're talking about with the the the 28 to 3 yep 283 you guys is okay let us stick around

look what he done in the super he's and there's been signs that they've done it with their nineers instead when you're up he he he wants goals for the juggler and i understand i do too but you know you got to learn from these because he has had that track record he's that their teams you know Kyle Shanan teams, they're always really great teams from ahead. Right. Front running teams, meaning like when they play the game, they want to play. When they get their run game going, you can't beat them. But if you throw a little rock in that pond and you start lowing that box and making

them getting that drop back pass game, you start doing all those things, you know, the numbers haven't looked good as far as that. I'm with you. I also need to apologize to LT. He had an additional 64 yards receiving. in the second quarter as well. Two receptions for 60 yards. Eat him.

Fifty yards on one. 20 in the first half? 79. Now, is that? 64. I'm going to ask from the other side. I'm going to ask from the other side, though. Now, is that like halftime adjustments and go down in San Diego Charger locker room and

there were in the Patriots? I don't. You know what? That's what someone would say on the other side. No, no, no, I get it. I get it. Nothing happened. We just stopped running a.

LT, when you watch in the second half, he was still able to eat, but they didn't, they just said, he wasn't the focal point. You didn't, that's all, and the coaches got it, they just. You start getting scared. Yeah, ball started nuts, tighten up. You know what? You know what pressure due to a pipe? It had busted.

Pressure can do two things. It either makes a diamond or bust your pipes. Come on. That's what my pops always said. We'll be right back after this quick break. Hello, I'm John Lithgow. We choose to go to the move. I want to tell you.

about my new fiction podcast. That's one small step for man. It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space. You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen. That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't.

Predisposition to depression, alcohol abuse, and suicide. We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons. What do you say, Buzz? Another beer? And triumph over addiction. Here's to you, Buzz Aldrin. Good luck to you.

And become a true hero. Buzz and I will proceed into the lunar module. Not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself. Buzz. We intercepted a Soviet radio transmission. Starring me, John Lithgow. Can you put it through?

No, can you translate? On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt. part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management.

How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney. the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free.

I'm Ebeney and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant,

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or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So what happened at Chappaquittic? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline. I think in the New York Daily News,

it's Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells, you. The story really became about Ted's political future. Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquittic is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive

a scandal. The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Who's a current lineman or linebacker

that you would love to have a battle against in this day and age football? You know what? I would have loved to play with a guy like Trent Williams. Trent Williams. I love the Niners. Just mean, I would have loved running power to his side. I knew he's going to, and just, hey, dittle, dittle, let's go.

I'm coming down the middle. And I, and I, because I know he was going to wash, and I'm like, okay, it's just me and the linebacker. I love. And your guy, I used to get your boy mad. Who? Coach now for you guys, it's Patriots. Brable.

Braves? I had Braves on skates, baby. Did you? Come on. So you were women or were you boss? Running power. Just running power because he's playing outside backer. Outside backer.

So I'd make him make a decision. He tried to hold me off with them long. Chop, I'm coming to get you, baby. So I love long arms. He was a good backer. And, and, and, and, and, and. But they were, and Teddy was just smart. He would never, he knew, he was like, he would just know how to get down.

He knew how to just fall, make a pal. Bruce, I mean, you guys had some smart guys. Guys just knew the game. Played their roles. Played their roles. The technique that they played is like, they knew. They ain't going to try to be a tough man. I'm going to do what I can do.

Like, too gap. I play offense and I heard that. Too gap. We're fucking too gaping here. Right. get your arms out shed blocker and go oh my god yeah that but you know it's it's interesting because i was there for i was there for 12 years so like i we'd have like a free agent dn come in and guys didn't realize that playing on that defense wasn't about your stats wasn't about this

it was everyone had their role and if you were a pass rusher and you weren't setting the edge and you're getting blown up in the run game and you only thought you were playing on third down they wouldn't fucking play you. You know what I mean? Right. If you're a linebacker that, you know, guest and did stuff and gambled, because you know how the linebackers,

they could try to shoot the gap, and then all of a sudden, that's 30 out their ass. Right. You know what I mean? You weren't there. You know, that's how crazy. That's, that was the unity of that team.

You know, everyone played on a string. Right. Very similar to when you watch those Seattle, like Legion of Boom, just for guys, for me that I went against, those defenses, man, that are on a string, where everyone's fucking on the same communication,

everyone's doing their job. Those are the hardest defenses to play. Because no one's making a mistake. We always used to eat guys that made a mistake because Brady would always see it. Right. You know what I mean? They try to do too much.

But it's the team that, and I always used to hear our defensive coaches say, you know, it's not about yards. You guys can have yards. This is points. Let's fucking slow them down. Let's make them go 12 fucking plays. I'm making a mistake.

And let's practice our red zone defense and try to only give up three. Because can they do that five times? Can they do 12 plays? Like, that was what I always saw just from an offensive guy watching in team meetings of what our defense was always doing. No, no question. And when you have a team that make them sustain drives, it's hard to do. And they'll get impatient. People get impatient.

And patient. Everyone wants to be a video game player. Absolutely. You know, and recently, Belichick goes on and talks about what was Brady's greatest quality that he always got us in the right play, never made the bad decision. Like, that's, if you do the right, like, as a young football player, when I was an older guy and young guys were like, yeah, what do I need to do? I say, know what to line up, know what the defense is doing, and know your, like, know your

personnel's in all your shit. If you know what to do, you're already beating. like half the guys. Now, not knowing what you need to do, but knowing what's going on, the concept of the play, why we're doing this, we're high-loing this backer,

if you know what to do against what you're probably going to do, that's going to, like, half the battle. Then you can use your athletic traits once you know those things. Right, right. No, you're 1,000 percent, right? I, I, no, 1,000.

I would love, you're told me who I'd love to play now, is Fred Warner. I think Fred Warner is a guy I love watching him play but if you hold if this guard can do his job and block down the three technique

and let it just be me and you I think I'd have my way with Freddie he's taller he's taller you're built in pad level you're low oh yeah I remember Erlacker I said just give it to him I mean Ray I told Ray I just give it to Ray I'd give it so those guys

are 6-2 63 Al Wilson gave me problems. Zach Thomas gave me problems. London Fletcher? London Fletcher. The little sucker was tough. But did he give you problems? Yeah, he gave me problems.

Two low guys trying to get out of it. Who's getting liable? And that's what's hard. London gave me problems. In London gave me problems. Zach Thomas, low, hard to get to. And I'm like, God, Ray, tall, I could get to him. But yeah, those shorter guys gave me problems.

Gave me problems. I love playing against taller linebackers that I could get underneath. Who is the hardest to block? I believe it or not, Jesse Tuggle. I was way back. Lana Falcons, he was tough, short guy, played linebacker, and Al Wilson was tough. Because I would say if you said the two tough was probably

Al Wilson, old school would be Jesse Tuggle, but Al Wilson played with Denver Broncos and Zach because they were short and I couldn't get under it because I'm shorter guy and it's hard to get underneath them. Guys that played high, so those two gave me, the most, I think, gave me fits. Now, if there's a young foolback out there trying to get through this crazy world that they call football

because they barely have any more fullbacks. They barely, you're right? What is the one thing that you, what's like the one bit of advice that you give for the fullback? Like, if you're going to be the team, because that's a badge of honor. Because if you're on the team and you're a foolback, like you ain't have no backup you don't have a backup you got to know a lot of shit it's like a mentality

thing my fullback James Devlin like the fullback was always like the first guy in the locker room fucking smelling salts while he's squatting like drinking cement for fucking breakfast like that's what but that was his job right he had to show that like I'm part of the toughness team and I am the toughness team what's your advice for the the fullback the young fullback trying to come in and make his his way on a team i think the biggest thing is walk lightly but carry a heavy bat i didn't need to be anyone's friends i said we just worked together i'm not your friend we just work together we got you know you can buy yourself some friends you have to be mean you have to be physical you it's full back to my advice is like it's it yeah it's some technique

to it but it's like guys do not want to hit and head on when you see me coming and you see me you have to make a decision my advice to fullbacks if you want to make this game come back and fullbacks become an integral part of this game again you have to be fearless you have to run in there whether it hurts or not and say I'm going to win this battle I'm talking about cutting the leg when you block block up and through if you're going head to head when you hit you dip you lift and you create a new line screen when you stalemate as a fullback and you stalemate and the linebacker step you in a hole you make the tailback now stop his feet you have to say i'm going to hit you i'm going to stay lower and i'm going to push you out of the way if you can push and create a new

line of scrimmage now you give the tailback a two-way cut that's what i knew when i played fullback I could see the safety coming down And I knew if the safety came down He was playing force Trying to knock the linebacker Make it spill inside I said if you know that If I could get to his inside shoulder

Throw my head across Now you have La Danean safety And linebackers playing air Because you created that space So it's about knowing your job Attention in Details And played the game physical That's right

You know what I couldn't agree a thousand percent more I'm not a foolback but I just always hung around fullbacks. And I remember when, you know, James ended up fucking, like, having a neck problem because that's what you had. If you're, and I would explain to the new foolback,

okay, that's, this is going to happen. This is what you have, this has to happen for you to be a proper fullback. You have to have neck problems. You have to go in and literally look like you're, you don't care about your, body you don't like that and that's what it because you know then we'd have some other new foolbacks come in they try to go with the chest fur you know what I mean I'm like dude you got to

have at least three concussions before camp is out for you to be a right fullback and I'm sorry for the whole concussion talk but whatever I'm with you I did neck bridges all the time I would do neck I had a harness where I put the in a chain the neck yeah neck do that I did neck all the time I'd go back in the off season. I wrestle at Fresno State. I was number three, ranked number three in the country wrestling. I mean, to me and Stephen Neal, we always talk. That's my boy. Oh, hey. I love Steve. He is a sort of his son wrestles. I see him all the time in Bakersfield. Bakersfield. He's a good guy with the state tournament. Me and him talking. He's like, me and him never tussled. We never tough because he was, you know, he was a bad boy.

Oh, he beat Brock Leicester in the world championship. Yeah. Stephen was tough. So I played with Steve. So I played with Steve my first like two years. and they had to like strap his shoulders on he has such bad shoulders and he would still go out and dominate dominate like because he was so athletic and he knew how to leverage wrestling wrestling bra no one could take stephen yeah that's a that's a very undersold story how crazy of a story that is he didn't play college football no what makes wrestlers just like a completely different breed of human being without a doubt You can't quit.

I can blame the quarterback. I can blame alignment. I can blame receivers. When you wrestle, it's just you and another individual out there. It's one-on-one. You shake hands and you get to feel what a man is. And it's like, are you going to let him dominate you? I'm never in my life been penned.

I'm never, my senior year, I was 42 and 0, 20, 30 pins. I just, wrestling was like, all right, I would go to college. I didn't want to wrestle in college. My dad said, you're still going to wrestle. Jim Sweeney let me play football. at Fresno State, and I wrestled. I was ranked number three in the country. I played seventh.

I was an all-American. But it was just the burn. You could quit. You're in there on a double leg, got a single leg in there, and the guy comes across with a cross-face, and you can cut, cower and let him, and give up the two,

or you just set that cross-face, and you suck that thing in, and you turn the corner, and you take him down. You get on top, and you start hammering. You come in for that double leg, and you pick him up and just slam him. I mean, wrestling, that one-on-one, I loved it as I hated it but I loved because I was I hated losing more than like winning

I hate when a guys when the whole football team come into that gym and everyone come watch the heavyweight and it's like low-neill and it's like I played football so you know running about Fresnel State I was the guy and now you got to go out and wrestle and all this recruits gyms that bring the recruits in to watch me wrestle you know the pressure it's like I can't go out in front of my boys yeah not in front of boys so wrestling that one-on-one that one-on-one that That's what makes it different. That's what makes it unique because if you, people will get to see if you had that Q-U-I-T and you're wrestling.

So I think that's what makes it different. And that's what made me play as long as I did in football because it's like, dude, you can't beat me. Yeah. And great flexibility and shit too. Helps, hips. Yeah. A lot of stuff.

You'd have been a good wrestler. You got that at the mentality. That's, they always asked me, but it was always during basketball season. Oh, okay. Okay. I would hoop a little. Okay. But I love, yeah, I never rest.

My brother wrestled. Okay. But he didn't hoop. Mount Rushmore of fullbacks. Oh, man. You know what? Me and Mike, in Moose, we talk about it. We know there should be a guy in the Hall of Fame.

I look at guys like Larry Senters, one of the best receiving fullbacks that ever played the game. Sam Gash. I love Sam, played in New England, too. Sam tough. Downhill, Mack Strum played with Seattle. You're talking about guys that I talk about that. I just loved the way they played. Of course, Moose Johnson, Moose, what he did for Emmett,

that's what Emmett loved him. Moose Johnson's tough. Mike also thought I think it was the best running fullback that this league have seen because he could play tellback, he could play fullback. So I think that all of us had our unique kind of, you know, own talent that made us unique and dominant in our own profession. So, like, Larry Senors, you said, who's the best receiving fullback that probably ever played the game? Probably Larry Senters, you know, in the huge check.

Tom, oh, yeah, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, you got to put Tom in there. I was a lot. I love Tom, oh, Tommy, oh, no, no, 44? Oh, yeah, Tommy and John Riggins, but I don't know if he was really fullback or tailback, Franco Harris. So, but Tommy Rathman, I love Tommy. Tommy could hide me. He was like the first one getting at the backfield. Backfield, and you pull splitbacks, him in on Roger Craig.

Love Tommy. Oh, yeah, Tommy Raffman. I love Tommy Rapids. He's definitely in there. Yeah. Definitely in there. Tony Richardson. Oh, thank you.

T. Rich. Kansas City Chiefs, T. Rich, man. I love Tony Rich. I mean, it's some guys. Max, I don't know if you remember this guy who played and I don't think he gets respect to his. Corey Slushinger. See, name you. Nobody talks about it.

He has the hardest head. I'm playing kickoff return. He's playing kickoff team. Corey points at me on kickoff. He's running down the field. He points out. me coming down and I'm like oh god you know what does that mean it's old kickoff yeah yeah it's a 50-hour sprint you got to wait for him in the wedge you got to wait and he when he points me out

I'm like you know I'm like and you can't cut you can't cut I'm like okay let's go and we just hit boom and boom we both were dizzy and it was like and he look all right now look yeah let's go my neck was hurting but but he that that was so I love Cory Slushinger man played block for Barry Sanders in Detroit lines Corey good old good old country boy so uh

won a national championship with Nebraska yeah corn husker baby I love love Corey so uh there's a lot of guys that I'll be remiss I'm probably missing some guys I gotta throw Jimmy in there too

James Devlin I gotta throw him yeah yeah we took short yardage and goal line like to heart like they used to like Scarnicchio and all and in the line like I remember because we know we'd always be in

the install meetings and stuff and they they fucking took that shit to heart they want to get you born to feel they loved it you know that we we carried we carried a fullback my whole career yeah it was a huge part of our team you know no bill now you said you talk with moose are you guys not do you have a fullback text chain is They're like legendary fullback. Right, right. No, we just like, we go to the phone every now and we chop it up. Mike, I talked to last week, All-Stod, and I go out to his golf tournament every year

and the guys get together and, you know, Sam, I go, Sam, Sam Gash, play golf and stuff with him and just guys just talk, Larry Senters, you know, talk to Larry L.C., man, shoot, the guy caught 100 passes as a fullback. Yeah. I mean, he was pretty amazing. That's insane. Right? 100 balls is a football.

So I think I'm close to 1,000 yards, too. So that's pretty good for coming out of the back to and moving around. So it was just, it's those guys are, they mean a lot. And I love the fullback position. It's unfortunately that it's a, you know, it's a dying breed. And it's only, I think the league only cares like four or five in the league. But hopefully it'll come back. And because I think it was a position that should be respected.

It's a position that I'm glad that hardball and is, is the hardball boys are making it more prominent again. And, you know, what Calhuchek, what he does for the Niners, juice is a great, and he's a great guy, great person. Utility guy, too. Yeah, cuts, you stat, you know. Versatility. Versatility.

You can run routes, gets open. And dude, the dude is just, he's a good man. Love that guy. Let me throw some love on Larry Sanders rate real quick. 1990s, he had 101 perceptions for 9602 yards, two touchdowns, 1,216 total yards. And then 1996, he had 99 receptions for 766 yards, but seven touchdowns. Oh, little Larry, man.

Larry, L.C. was the man, man. Larry was the man. That's what you ought to do. You got to make fullbacks grading. We got to, the promotion. Let's get one of these guys in the hall. We got it. There's got to be a fullback in the hall.

You're up there. Exactly. You need to be in the hall. We got to get somebody. Do you guys not, like, in all of our research, it generally says, as Jim Brown is considered a fullback. Do you guys not claim him? Or is it complicated?

It's complicated because, you know, like Franco Harris, they say he was a fullbacker and tailback, you know, so that's why, like, Moose has said, I should be in. I told Moose you should be in. Mike has said I should be in. I mean, Sam Gash, you ask those guys, they'll, they'll tell you. That's a huge part of, it's the story of the game. Right. And it was a huge part, like you said in 80s and 90s and earlier and still.

I mean, the teams that are winning again are using them. What's the relationship between the fullback and the running back? It's great dynamics. I mean, every tellback that I was in a block for, Lidane, you know, I was privileged and honored that he chose me to induct him into the Hall of Fame. So I was very humble by the position. Yeah. And it's, dude, he could have, you know, took Drew Brees and all these different other guys

that are, you know, that worthy of it. And, you know, Eddie George, you know, still talk, you know, guys have. a great relationship with and you just you you're there for them you want to make sure you protect them you want to make sure hey look this is what i'm thinking go watch film together i think the the fullback and tellback relationship is unbelievable now when you you're with some legendary running backs oh yeah and they had some legendary seasons any legendary gifts you know what i just told i mean i remember eddie bought all the lime and at tvs and you know and i was like i said eddie and the year after I was gone, went there.

I said, where's my LTATV? So I messed when he gave him a hard time. So, Elty, I mean, Eddie, I'm still waiting for the ATV. No, he don't, but he took dinner and bought me a bunch of stuff and watches and gifts and stuff. So, yeah, they do. They take care of, they do. They take care of their guys who take care of them. Now, you used to do powers, bosses.

Did you wham at all? Oh, yeah. Can you explain the difference of each of the things that are the, the, each of the assignments you had. Yeah, absolutely. Say, like we had, for mentions. So you had a wham? What is it a wham?

A wham is usually when the three technique, the guy, whoever positioned. The big motherfucker in the middle. In the middle. And the guard flashes him like, I'm blocking, and he slips him and lets the- Go to the second level. Goes to the second level up to the linebacker.

And now the big guy in the middle comes through and he thinks he's got a wide open, and I'm right there to ear-holding. and get him. So that wham is you against tackle. Yes. Bam. Bam.

Bam is either when I can come. I can line out like the X or the Z and they can motion me in. And that's kind of when the crack. I did that to Dwight Feeney. That's kind of how we did the crack. Yeah. Start is when you're getting like a outside linebacker. Outside linebacker or the D.N.

And that's a, yeah. And we call usually like 90 or 70 crack or, you know, toss crack. Toss crack. We used to call Gator. Okay, Gator. G and G. Okay, and we'd come down and hit that defensive end. Dwight Freeney, I got him, had him, I had him. They went 13 and we're the only team beat him, I think. 13. 13, 3. Yeah, you got to pull that one. I was getting Freeny. So what's boss? Boss means a boss is when the line, when you pitch the ball. Back on safety?

Back on strong safety. Yep. So boss, it gives you, you have the guard tackle pulling around. He's kind of, guard and tackle. They're pulling around, cleaning up the linebackers turning in. And it's usually boss back on safety, the Z or the X when you're going to, he's coming down, blocking and cracking, and it usually opens up the safety and the fullback. So boss, I love boss. Because they're a little smaller. Yeah, boss, I knew they were going to try to cut me. And if they stayed up on their feet, they had no chance. No shot.

No shot. Power. Power is that's when, 50, 60 power, 40, 60 power, whatever it is, you know, 60 or 70 power. That's when you have a down block. The fullback is running the track. He's going where the tackle was. The tight end, he's blocking, he's blocking down. Usually the guard is pulling.

So in power, I'm kicking out the end or whoever the end man is on the line of scrimmage. Could be a linebacker, could be a edge guy. It could be an edge guy. That you're just, your power and you're going, boom, that's where you're doing. It's power because you've got two guys that power that are blocking down. It's a pull and fullback at the point of attack. What's another one? I love ISO.

I love ISO, and that's you in the middle backer. Me and the middle linebacker. ISO was my bread and butter because the guards fans, like he's showing pass, and boom, the whole UZ opens up, linebacker takes a step back and he realizes it's lead, and he's got to come make a decision. Love lead, love power. Lead, love ISO. Yeah. And so that, is that all of them?

Yeah, you know what? You had that or, you know, you had. And that's what you got to. You young fullbacks, there's six. Right. Six plays that you have to just not give a fuck on about your body. Yeah. That's what fullback is.

That's why you say it's about to quit. Right. Because you know the six plays. Right. Right. And then we had, Hey, you ain't going out. You ain't going to get a hitch.

Right, right. You got to earn the hitch. Exactly. And you'll get rewarded every now and then. You do your job. Like we, and then you have, you know, like Bob. Bob is back on backer. So that's when a weak side play

Where it's like me blocking the wheelbacker The guy in the bubble So guards covered You know guards covered you inside Guard uncovered you're going outside Because the guard If he's uncovered guard can go up to the backers That means you got to go out the outside backer

So we gotta get So when we're cutting all this up We'll have an example of each Of your explanation Okay With a film cut up of it It'll be fun Yeah I can't wait

Like we'll cut all this shit, you know, we'll cut in and spice it. But, like, we'll see if we can get all the bam, boss, Bob. Okay. It'll be fun. That'd be that. Like, remember you said you did the tie law? If we can license the footage.

I know. Can we not do that yet? Don't we still do it? Not yet. I got a question for you. So, we've talked about all the different running backs that you've blocked for. Now, do you have to change or adapt how you operate? Like, because Mike also has a very different running style from Ladanian-Thomason.

Do they want different things out of you? Or is your job pretty much the same And you just go for it No, I think when you sometimes you know Like LT is like all right cool He's patient He's got, boom Boom you want to just

You want to make sure that you're going At a good speed Be square and let him choose Where he wants to go Cory Dylan He gonna run up your ass You gotta be if you don't He gonna hit you in the back

So you better friggin go and make a create a hole You want to make sure you're doing him And Eddie Eddie Eddie you know he's a little longer so it's hard when he gets going he wants that forward lean Eddie George so you're just going to go but yeah there's different there's different little tweaks that you that you want to do a guy like you know sprozy you don't he's he's back there moving so you got to say hey sproes let me step on his toes first meaning that I want to get close enough to him before you do you know a running back's job

is to set the block up exactly if you're running the outside if you're running the lead or running we're running like a bob downhill. He needs this hugged that double team because the guard is, you know, the guard is they're acing or tray blocking up or, I mean, acing up. Hip to hip, hip to hip, and they're going to go up to the next guy. Yes. But they can only do that if the running back sets it up. Because if the running back goes here, then he's going to come in.

He just lose leverage. So he's got to be patient and run off the ass of that guy. Press it. And then it'll naturally happen. And then you read off of that. So you could go slip in there, or if he hugs him and wraps him, then you just go. Right. You can go back door.

But if he comes off right away, the linebacker then says, man, that linebacker, he fired his gun. He made the tackle in the backfill is because the guard didn't hug it long enough and he just lets him shoot the gap or he gambles. So as long as he does that, that linebacker has to stay home. So that's one of the things that you read, just watching the game. And that just developed over time. You feel thing too. To feel like more raves, more stuff.

You guys communicate on the sideline. You need to develop that. And you watch other tape. And also situations. Right. Like what's the situation? Is this a third, you know, is this a third and inches, fourth an inches? There's like certain points where they know the vulnerable part of the defense where they have to win for the plate to work.

Right. They have to be a yard in the end zone for you to wait, for this to win. And then it becomes inertia. Yep. Now, is there a running back from the history of the NFL that you wish you could have blocked for? Oh, yeah. You know, I really, really, really wish it's, believe it or not, I mean, Barry Sanders at times, you just said, man, because he really didn't like a fullback at times.

Yeah. So just to see what to be with him. Yeah. You wanted to change him. You could change him. I could change him, baby. Let me change Barry. I said, Barry, you would have ran behind me.

I said, you would have stayed in there. I mean, there are some backs, man, that you just looked at over the years that you say, now today's game, I'd have loved Derek Henry. gee yeah yeah I mean because he likes to be straight down how fun would that have been to see that just get behind him oh let's go it's like fucking the the the Niners with Christian because they do those stretch niners make you cover every blade of grass because they got that stretch play so when you're running out there that lineback is moving sideways I'd love to be able to get those guys on skates strong arm them and just they're going to go fine so they can't cut back so

and Christian's that guy who presses the hole he would he'd make you look good McCaffrey runs a lot like LT in some sense as far as when they, the running, the way they press the hole. So that pressing is like, that's like the main thing for a running back. That's what differentiates a college running back to a pro running back. In college, a running back can just hit the hole and break tackles. You can't do that in the league. You have to set up and be patient with your line.

There's a line to every run. And there's a way, a track they call it. You got to hit the fucking track, run the track. And the track. And the track, like, so a lot of these young running backs, they'll cut before the block is ignited. And then, so it's an early cut because it looks big. And it looks like it's there, but that's, it's, it's just a mirage because this guy's

going to float over the top. Right. So guys like Christian McCaffrey and L.T., who's all time gray, they press it. They'll damn near come right off your heel. And then full speed, put their foot in the ground, and then go. that and that's the hardest because once the linebacker's waiting linebackers waiting oh shit he's gone he's gone and that's that's what the great running backs do but it's it's like one of those things where you know you have guys over here you have another block over here with the you know the receiver

or whatever there's another matchup but he's got to feel that and like press that and then you know that's like the number one thing it is with the running back it is no more No, no question. We'll be right back after this quick break. Hello, I'm John Lithgow. We choose to go to the move. I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast. That's one small step for man.

It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space. You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen. That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Predisposition to depression, alcohol abuse, and suicide. We'll see Buzz try to overcome demons. What do you say, Buzz? Another beer?

And triumph over addiction. Here's you, Buzz Aldrin. Good luck to you. And become a true hero. Buzz and I will proceed into the lunar module. Not because he conquers space, but because he conquers himself. Buzz. We intercepted a Soviet radio transmission. Starring me, John Lithgow.

Can you put it through? Can you translate? on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you, that's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all. childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer.

Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into life. lines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So what happened at Chappaquittic? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.

There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. There's a famous headline. I think in the New York Daily News, It's Teddy escapes, blonde drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you. The story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president? Chappaquitic is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control. And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.

The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family. Listen to United States of Kennedy on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's actually get into this game. Let's rip through it real quick.

Yeah, let's go through it real quick. So back in time, November, well, you do you do, Jules. Back in time, we always go around. We go over pop culture around when the game took place. This game took place November 1, 1998. Number one movie, vampires, never. It's not even one. worth John Carpenter, not even worth it.

The first night by Monica. I love Monica. Not even worth it. Waterboy was in the theaters. Water boy. Pretty much. The Broncos. You're pretty much him.

Offensive water boy. Hell yeah. Now that's neck roll game. Bobby Bouchet. Bobby B'uzee. Baby, say, baby. Super Bowl champions, the Broncos. Terl Davis won, you know, MVP.

That was crazy. He won Super Ligger. Ricky Williams. Now there's a guy. He won Heisman this year. Peyton's rookie season. Ricky Williams He was insane.

He was. He was special. He was crazy watching a man that big run that fast. He could fly. And like he never... He was like some Bo Jackson type. No. Saints were in place for him.

He was... He was amazing. Okay, real quick on this 1998 Minnesota Vikings team. This was probably the best season of Vikings history. They went 15 and 1, led by Dennis Green, RIP. They had a lead-lead-lead offense with a top 10 defense. This was also rare.

Randy Moss's rookie season, and he had 17 touchdowns and won offensive rookie of the year, hell of the season. Hall of Famous from this team, Randall McDaniel, Chris Carter, Randy Moss, John Randall, Gary Zimmerman. Also, some of the dudes worth noting, Randall Cunningham, Robert Smith, Tony Saragusa, and Brad Johnson. Playoffs! Brian Billick was also the OC of this team.

Who? Brian Billick. Brian Billick. Yep. What happened to, I was, I still don't remember what happened. Why did they get rid of Randall Cunningham? This guy, oh, he came back. at a retirement. Yeah, he was laying, he was doing town work. Brad Johnson.

And didn't they get Dante Culpever like the next year? I think a couple years later. Brad Johnson was in the mix here. I think he got hurt. But I mean, this is when he was old. Yeah, Randall was old. Randall was old. But he was lit it up. Man, they went 15.1. This is when they were on the Madden cover. Right. Well, this is the second time you guys played the Vikings this season. You played in Randy Moss's first game. The first game of this year was against the Vikings, too. Back when the bucks and the Vikings were in the same division. Did we beat them in Minnesota? We lost them there. I think you must.

You lost them right because they were undefeated at this point. Yeah. Now what do you remember about this fight against team? I just remember that Tony Dungey was saying, got to keep the ball away from them. Tony Dunjy saying you can't keep the ball away from their offense. So Dunjy was like, hey, it's going to be a physical game. Guys, they haven't been here to Tampa. This weather's going to play a factor in it.

It's going to be hot. It's going to be humid. You make them, you make them tap out. And the mentality was, okay, if we pound these guys and you saw it. It was that offense, that high explosive offense, they wanted to be on the field, chomping at the bit. But if you keep them on the side, they become frustrated. We were able to keep them on the field.

But they were, shoot, the guys that they had. How was Randy, though, when you're watching them and like preparing for this game? Was there like a 20-pig cut up of this kid? Everybody just watching you, like, oh, you're going to get Randy? And he was that type of guy. He's like, dude, Ron, but we had a good corner. You know, Ronde, we had some good corners. Randy was really good.

Yeah, and it's like, but it's like, so they wanted the challenge, but Randy was, Randy was, Randy was, and you know, when he was even, he was leaving. And the dudes just had some incredible skills. I mean, the way he could just go up and high point the ball, the way he could do, Randy Moss was. I liked Robert Smith. Oh, Robert Smith running back, baby. At a stand. What was Robert? He was a Pac-10 guy.

Arizona State, maybe? Robert Smith, man. 26. I just remember because I used to play with this team on Madden. Yeah, Robert Smith, he's always had the little jitters, could run. Robert Smith, he was packed in. Ohio State, Ohio State. He's another guy who retired too early.

Yeah. Yeah, Robert Smith, he shut it down. He said, I got enough. I'm good. Robert Smith was a good player. Rale Cunning him the next season through nine picks in the first six games and got played. That'll do it.

This Bucks team. Johnny Randall, baby. Yeah, he's a lot. So Matt Burke was on this team, the offensive line for the Vikings. So now the 1998, Tampa Bay Bucks, coming off at 10 and six season, these bucks went eight and eight. Third year of the Tony Dungy era. This team had an incredible defense, ranked second in the league, anchored by the likes of John Lynch, Warren, Sapp, Derek Brooks, and Rondea Barber. Then over on the offensive side of the ball, it was stacked backfield with, as we mentioned,

Warwick done, Mike Alclaw, and, of course, Lorenzo Neal. It was also the first year the books called Raymond James Stadium their home. And just some hall favorites from this team, Derek Brooks, Warren, Sapp, Tony Dungy, John Lynch, Ronde-Barber, and then just more dudes worth talking about, you know, Trent Dilfer, your college teammate. I was also on this team. Monty Kiffin, defense coordinator.

Monty Kiff. Lane Kiffin's dad. Yeah. Now, I still think it's one of the craziest stats that Derrick's never missed a play. That is crazy. Honestly, it's almost unbelievable. It is unbelievable.

That is the craziest thing to me. That era, that position. Just in any era, any that... To not, him in London Fletcher, I think they never missed a game. It's crazy. It's crazy to see what they were able to do. I mean, Dee Brooks, and he could run. He was a guy that's a racehorse, ran sideline to sideline.

You're going to get injured. And you're running that fast, that quick hamstrings, and Derek Brooks, just, you've got to be lucky. Warren Sapp, special? Special. He was the most dominant. He was the Aaron Donald before Aaron Donald. Warren Sapp was the Corey Dillon on defense. Like just naturally going to a weight room, just mess around.

Warren Sap didn't really work. Yeah. But he just, man, he had, boom. Yeah, he's Aaron Donald. So athletic. Just, I mean, when he started dancing and getting crazy, he's one of them guys, you just like let him do his thing. You're no Warren Sapp.

That was my Bella check. I didn't get as well as you did. Now, how was this team? Could you feel that something was brewing? Because this team went on. Yeah, you knew. was so close we should have made the playoffs there's a game on here we would have made the playoffs we lose at jacksonville and i lost the game and where you just know i'm not they say in one play

don't lose the game but the one play lost the game we're playing jacksonville it's pouring rain we're lining up we're running power we're absolutely killing them joel spingy played with me with the saints he's on jacksonville i'm bringing his lunch to him we're running power we're just killing I'm fired up the sidelines guys on the sideline watching and I go to I said run fire and I'm staying in the game I tell that because I you know usually they take me out put Mike back at full back and run fire you know fire lightning full back in the flat because we're running power so I go at speaking and I'm like I'm going to kill him and I go like that he turns his shoulder he thinking I'm taking it because I've been just wearing him out he's like ah I slip out in the flat it opens up

like the tears like I'm just opens up like the red sea it's just nothing but sideline I'm like he's back there and it's raining and Dilford why you throw the ball that hard you know I had hands like Roberta Rand's hands or so he threw the ball he put a little too much fire on it a little but I should have caught the ball so if I catch this ball you got to catch it for the fullback yeah you pretty much you know how it is I got my neck roll on if I catch this pass it's six and we win the game we're already up by I think we're up by two or three. I'd catch this. I'm probably running 40 yards for a touchdown. Instead, it's fourth down. We have to punt the ball. They end up winning. I know that game. So we would have made the playoffs that

year. Yeah. Man. Yeah. So I knew something was brewing. And if we would have gotten the playoffs, we were pretty hot. We might have went on the road. That's the way we were playing. This team was special. This team was special. Run the football and you got a historic defense. Right. You know what you mean right you just can't mess it up at quarterback it was me that power i should have caught that pass yeah you can't go 11 for 22 k5 on a win yeah that's like a good stat day yeah oh yeah oh you're talking about this game yeah you know this game oh this game we just yeah well i'm just saying don't mess it up right we can't right right right i mean look cunt right but real quick before we move on from the actual bucks jersey talk real quick second creamsicle bucks jerseys are

Powder Blue Chargers. Ooh, that's tough. Powder Blue. Yeah, it's the right. Powder Blue. That Powder Blue Special. You know that Powder Blue is special, baby. I remember they got away from it when I was a kid.

Right. Right. And then they went back to it. That powder blue was tough, maybe. So real quick on this game, lead up. The big thing to take away here is that the Vikings beat the Bucks, the first game of the season. This is the second game of the season in the divisional game.

What was the score of the first game? It was 31-7. Okay. And the Vikings were undefeated going into this game, and they were averaging 34.6 points per game. Then you guys were only averaging, I think, 12.

Yeah, you guys were 14 points. Because Tony, we had a pre-game interview. Oh, really? And he's like, I think he even said, we got to keep them off the field. Keep them off the field? That was all week.

Mindset. But you prepare, you know, the key, yeah. The heat and mindset. You tell guys, hey, this is what it's going to be. be you guys want to win this game this what we got to do now do you remember scouting the first game because anytime you played in the division you had one game in you guys like you guys got blown out the first time right so you knew that like you had to fix up do you remember anything that you specifically remember from the first game that you

used in the second game that helped you guys yeah i think the biggest thing was like okay guys do your assignment we can't school dungy was pretty clear guys if you try to make this a shootout we're not winning this game. We're not having the horses. But if we can keep the ball, so that means everyone in attention details, do your job, stay on your man, play, snap the whistle.

Our defense is going to hold up. They're going to hold up. But if we go out here offensively and just control the ball, keep the ball, that is the only chance. And that's the only chance. So scouting them, they had some big plays. And they had some big plays in this game.

But when you limit the big plays, that's a dungy say. We can't stop them the whole game. game, but if we can limit them. If you give them a lot of chances, we can't be. But if you limit, so that's what, if you look at the ball control, what we had and just time, you know, that's, it's huge. Yeah.

So it's back and forth from the jump. Tampa Bay struck first with a work done touchdown. You guys came out hot. Yeah. That's a crazy stat. This was Tampa's first, first half touchdown since December 1996. Yeah, we were, yeah. Yeah, they talked about it on the broadcast, not scoring.

Yeah, we were. Yeah, start fast. Yeah, got to start fast. That's all coaches say that, right? Gotta start fast. Traded touchdowns back and forth. You want to be halfway through the second quarter in your fucking. Tide 17-17.

Down a 14-point hole. You don't want to be here, man. Look, I'm just telling you, you don't want to be down 14 of these assholes going into the fourth quarter. Gosh, it sounds like him. Yes. Because that's the shit he was saying. Yes, yes. Come on, man.

Get it together. Early in the second half, Minnesota took the first lead of the game on a Jake Reed touchdown. He would have two this game, 24-17. Jake Reed was, no, Reed was bad, too. I mean, they had so many, but we just kept pounding. I know. We didn't give it away. You guys, you guys held Randy pretty decently until, like, the second half, or the first, like, end of the first, or right at the beginning of half, or right before halftime, he had a big catch.

Catch on the right side On the right side Yeah I remember I was I was like But only two receptions for 52 yards There are other receivers eight though You know what I mean Like they stepped up

They played It was a hell of a game It was a hell of a game It was a hell of a game Was Chris Carter hurt He only had a couple of receptions Yeah But fast forward to late in the fourth quarter

Tampa Bay would punch in a six yard All-Stot touchdown With Lorenzo Neal clearing the way And that would end up being the game winner 27 24 What play was that That was power I ran outside, didn't we?

This was, it was just, it was just the, it was my, it was a game that I loved. Because it was just, it was like, you know, we're just smashed by watching it. You're playing the, that was, that was the Rams of the 90s, right? Yeah. You know, this team could score. They were averaging, what, 30 a game. It was like, dude. You slow this team down.

This was a historic game and this was like a cool, this was a cool foreshadowing of old school football. playing the new evolution of what the game will become. Wow, I like that. Well said. It was. It was, hey, this is a battle of the grit. You were just like a bowling ball in your stance. Like, how much weight was in your hand?

It changed for each play? Yeah. If it was ISO, was it, you were just like a fucking 40. But they don't know what I'm looking at. You got to realize I'm just down there like, all right, I don't know, come get me. Come see. And you'll see, I don't make many moves. It's just like.

No, it's downhill. It's downhill and guy, we just Rudd. I remember the linebacker Rudd. I was punishing Rudd. 57. Seven. Yes, you were. He was kind of skinny, though.

He was, yeah, he was, yeah, he didn't want it. No, he didn't want it. Some of those, that's some of those longer guys that try to absorb you little guys. Medi-Manuel, he would try to step as 58 was, he was their leader. Oh, yeah. Randallel, I think he was their, yeah, 58 linebacker. They had, their defense wasn't bad.

They had some ballers. They didn't know. This was a fucking, this was a slug fight. They were 15 and 1. Right. It just, if they would have went to the Super Bowl, it would have been a different. One play from the Super Bowl, too. Huh?

One play away from the Super Bowl. Yeah. One great stat from this game. Mike Allstock ran for a career high, 128 yards. Warwick done gained 115 yards, giving the bucks a pair of 100-yard runners in a game in the same game for the first time in franchise history. Wow. Wow. I didn't know that was the biggest game team record 242 rushing yards that was quite a game

that was I just yeah I love I love that game that game was special what was the legacy of that game for you I think just you know beating a team when you look back afterwards years later like wow that was a special game in Tampa I was part of blocking for two guys that I love that's still great friends with I think that was that was that was That was the legacy. But I think when you looked at it during that moment, it's a team that wiped you over the mat. A team that thought they were better than you,

a team that you lost to, like, 31 to 7, they kicked your butt and you, your redemption. It was a redemption game. So this was a game, a statement game for us. So that's what I loved about that particular game. And they're one loss. This is a huge. And they would go on to lose the NFC Championship game,

20 to 17 to Atlanta. Anderson missed a 39-yard field goal that would have iced it with two minutes. And he was lights out. To this point, he's a Hallfamer. Yeah. Yeah, never missed that.

Did he make it to the whole? Yeah, he's one of the only place kickers in the Hall of Fame. And me and Morton played together with the Saints. Yeah. Morton Ander. He had the one bar. Good guy, too. A little piece of, he was, was he a Brit?

He's Swedish. Swedish. Danish. Yeah. He's so cool. And then Tampa Bay would end up going to a Super Bowl in 2002, winning their first. Randy Moss would go to play 14 seasons for a career total of 982 receptions

15,292 yards and 156 touchdowns and Lorenzo would go on to play 10 more seasons in the NFL. Yeah, and it's crazy. The Tampa team, what I loved about it too is I thought that the year we lost to the Rams, I talked to Warren, I talked to Mike before the game. I said, come on y'all next, let's go.

I'm going to see y'all there. Because in Brooks, I said, I can't wait. I'm a smack. So it was that crap talking because year before, I'm in, I'm in Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay loses to the Rams. They should have beat the Rams. So I think we're going to play Tampa Bay in a Super Bowl. So what was the school?

The Rams and didn't it wasn't the last play of the game that the Rams beat them? Remember they're playing Tampa? You were great school, but they were. I know, but this is like my. Yes. If I saw it, I'd remember. You remember, I think it was a fade route. They beat the, the Tampa was, I think, top.

No time on the clock. Do you have a rough year? Yeah. I went to the Super Bowl with the Titans. 99. 99. Yeah. NFC championship.

It was, I think, like, four seconds left. I'm pulling for Tampa because it's going to be Tampa and Titans in a Super Bowl. They lost 11 to 6. 7 to 6. What's the last play of the game? Let me pull it up right here. The receiver made, it's just 11 to 6. Tampa's winning.

But that, I mean, that's a record-breaking offense that they held. the freaking 10 points or whatever, 11. They made it to St. Louis's 35 Incomplete class to Bert Manuel and then Kurt Warner. What a year for the Rams, man. They almost lost like every game that they played. They got it down

to St. Louis's 22nd and Sean King was sacked by Grant Winstrom for minus 13 yards. Put him back to the 35 and then they went four and out. But that last, the Rams scored the touchdown is... Yeah, Ricky Prol, 30-yard touchdown. With four minutes and 50 seconds left.

Roll, Ricky Pull. Yeah. It was a, what was it, like third or fourth? I remember that now. It was the left side. It was third down. Yeah. It was third and four on Tampa Bay's 30.

That was the game. Ricky Pro. Yeah. He was a tough guy too. Yep. This was a fun game to go down and watch. Oh. Like, just to like do the research and rewatch the game.

We watched all your highlights. Yeah. This was such a fun time of football. Right? You really miss it. Really do. Nostalgia. for the era that we grew up watching, the smash mouth.

Right. Like the game with four minutes left, you put the ball, you run four minute offense. The game's over. Not like, oh, every team's going to get five more shots out of it with three minutes left in the game. That's what it was. Yeah, the end of the game, we went in four minute. That's what I think I love. Win it in four minutes.

And say this, four minute, went in four minute, and we just came out and scored a touchdown. Yeah. We broke their, didn't Rudd throw his helmet? No, Alstad broke like a 40-yarder to like the six and then you guys ran it out. No, you guys just need it. Okay. You need one first down. But I thought Rudd, the linebacker, got mad, and he got a 15-year-old penalty.

Maybe that too. But yeah, no, yeah, but we did, yeah, we just, we just, that, yeah, that was a game. We just, it was about the will. We said, let's just, let's break their will four minutes. They needed to stop. Their offense is ready to go, and we refused. We refused to give those guys the ball back. Let's grade it.

Let's grade it. Now, these are some names that we came up. With this game, if you have a name off the top of your dome, let us know. We came up with the lone loss, the perfection spoiler, low man wins game, revenge and Raymond James, the bucks run wild, the bucks run wild, the 242 game. Ooh, I'm going to go, no, no, no, I like either low man wins or the revenge in Raymond James. just kind of rhymes. The 242 is good, too, though. Whatever you want, you pick it. You know what? Low man wins. Lowman wins. And for our audio listeners,

Lo is spelled L.O. in honor of our guests right now. Yeah, baby. Low man wins. There we go. Score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score Lorenzo stakes of this week 9, 1999, divisional game. Zero to 10. Decimal's okay. What are the stakes of this game? Yeah. Oh, zero to ten. Ten, baby. This is what, they went 15 and one.

Now, the stakes. Regular season. A regular season. You know, and because of what they end up doing that team, 15 and one. And because it was what happened, the revenge game, because we lost so bad, the first, I would say this was a six or seven, six or seven. That's, that's, that. Six point five? Yeah.

Six point five. 6.5. Anytime you have a division game, it's a 6, at least. At least a 6. Exactly. So I'll go 6. I'm going to a shout out real quick. We've got a fan in the comments often. His name is Greg Condon. He says that you should start saying decimals encouraged as opposed to decimals, okay. Okay. So decimal points incurred. So Jules had a 6. Jack, who's not here with us today, he had a 6.4. I had a 6.2, so we're all right in there. Yeah, we're all in there. Okay. Okay. I was right there. Yeah. All right, Lo. What about the star power of this game? Decimals encouraged 0. to 10.

You talked about, I think over 10 guys went on to be in the Hall of Fame. Are you talking about today, too, still? Regardless. Are you saying it's for that game that game? However you interpret the star power of this. Okay. If you say the star power of that game, today, I don't know how you can't be in nine, eight and a half to nine, without a doubt.

Star power, you got too many guys, eight and a half. I agree. That's a great fucking score. You had a legendary, legendary defense. You have legendary offensive guys. I mean, you're one of the greatest fullbacks of all time. I'm going to go with the 8-2. Jack had a 7.9.

And you're Danny Green. You have coaches. There's a bunch of buildings there. Yeah. The gameplay of this grinder of a game. Game play. What do you mean? Game play.

How to win? Did it go back and forth? Was it very, was it an entertainment? Oh, yeah. Entertainment. for entertainment level when you're, at that particular time, Raymond James Stadium, the team that scored, it was going back and forth, you'd be anybody that says this is for the entertainment value, less than a seven. I got to look at you guys. I'm starting with you, Jules. I'm trying to

remember what I scored it at. I'm going gameplay. I like defensive battles. I like 12 personnel. I like 13 personnel. I like big guys on big guys. So I'm going to go like. Like, Nate. Jack had a 7.4, I had a 7.6. Tell me what, tell me what you didn't like about the game. What was, where'd you? We've done, we've done some insane games. Like, Miracle on Nice and 28 to 3 and all, like, we've done some stuff.

So I just try to, this is still a regular season game. I understood. So I try to, like, dial it back a little bit. Okay. And generally, guests come in and don't score as much with integrity as you are. So usually I just pull back the curtain. I usually go a little bit lower than I actually think, just to give a little bit more integrity for the whole show.

And you'll see when we're done, No, no, no, I'm just, no, because I just want to, because I, but I didn't think it was it, because I played. Some people will say, like, remember when Kansas City and the L.A. Rams played that 55 to 53. Right. People are like, that gameplay was so insane. It depends on what you like. How you like, no defense. You're like, dude, no defense.

And that's why this one had enough defense to hold his high-powered offense, has been scoring 35, take him another 27. So I thought that was, yeah, so yeah. You got to be a real football head to understand. It's a solid game too, like three point game, like great football down the middle. But there's like nothing really good. If it was one side, yeah. There's not a, I would say there's not a lot of like bar room conversation, like, oh, remember this week. True.

The thing happened here. So that's like on the spectrum that we're, we're scoring it on. But like a 7.5 for like a regular season game. That's the same. Yeah. And then low man wins. What's the score on? The name of the game, low man's wins.

We grade the name of the game. Decimals and Curric. Oh, man, wins because I'm going with the seven. I'm going with the seven. I got to go seven, eight. It's a fullback. You know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to get my, I'm not going to tweet. You know what I mean?

You let me. I'll pump you, baby. There we go. There we go. There we go. Okay. So Jack went with a 50. I with a 4-1 just because shout out.

Okay. Yeah. That's like. It's a 7.07. Okay. So that puts us for here. That puts us. These are all the games we're on the second page.

Okay. That puts us at our new 72nd game. It's just behind the 2006 NFC wildcar game, Cowboys versus Seahawks. That's a Romo snap game. And then just ahead of 2131, the 1995 game 122, Angels, Orioles. That's how Cal Ripkin broke the Iron Man Street. Oh, yeah. That's a great one.

That's a good spot for a regular season, NFL game. No question. Maybe, you know, next time I come, I might throw that Titans, Bill, Music City Miracle. that'll go that'll go that'll score that'll rank like this is where we're at for our whole scores you can see we're a little bit patriots focused but we've had Patriot guests yeah no but you and those are insane games no no no I think that that Atlanta game your game that game should be up there way it should be the page I mean the Malcolm Butler game yeah that's a fucking crazy no question no question I agree we did the the longest yard game with Kurt Warner

early in our uh four right to this where is that where is that where is that that so when you think about okay okay so compares goats when you guys talking about regular seat star power where did that game why why would you not rate it higher because tampa didn't have enough offensive star power when you think about when i went the eight that's that's pretty high for me i think you were six right yeah i mean here you have two you got two receivers that are hall of fame on the other team i had a seven eight and here's why for me in football quarterback is a big part of it. Agreed.

And Trent Dilfer is kind of tough. No, no, I got you. No, I got him. I got you. But, like, when we're doing games like Peyton Manning versus Tom Brady,

you know, and 7-8's a good score for Star Power. And if you want consistency, you've got to have a good quarterback. And you can win with team, like,

I think that Philadelphia, Jalen Hertz doesn't have to win the game. No. Just don't go, if you go out and play, he's better than Jimmy G. But you know what I'm saying?

He can make the plays, but he doesn't have. to. I think that that team You should take advantage of this time. Take advantage of this. Because then you can learn on how to win the game. Yes. Yes. Through this. This could train you. Exactly. And he's not playing. He's not a bad quarterback.

Yeah, like Tom didn't go out and win the first couple. No. You know what I mean? It was in that same kind of thing what they're saying with Jalen. But then he didn't stay the same. He didn't. Right. You know what I mean? He learned from those times and then the little opportunities you have to make the plays you make. And then you keep on making them. And then it just, then your

team gets shaped into different things eventually because of salary cap and you can't pay all the guys. Agreed. So, like, that's how this shit is. It is. So we have Super Bowl 34, the Titans Rams Super Bowl, as our 15th overall with the score of 8.6. Okay. That's a good.

Oh, yeah. But you got to come back and do the Music City miracle because that would be incredible. This is awesome. I love this, man. I love this. It's a great little setup. I like it. We miss anything on this game?

No, no, no, man. We're good. Everyone, you got to go check out Lorenzo. He co-hosts Believe in Chargers alongside Chargers play-by-play voice, Matt Money Smith, new podcast air on Fandul Sports Network, SoCal, and are also available whenever you get your podcast or wherever you get your podcast and on Belize YouTube channel. That's a pretty sick channel. I've seen you guys got a bunch of awesome content built around this very, very

exciting Chargers team. Believe Network also features the likes of Chris Hogan. Your guy. There we go. A guy. Lax guy. He gives you that little lax perspective. Carl Banks, one of the best linebackers of all time. Phil Sims. I worked with Phil. I love Phil. He's good, dude. Phil. Does he ever say communist and do you ever talk to him anytime like he drops he's a common? He's a common. Right, right, right. And all these guys are delivering a bunch of great analysis on all their leagues cross the platform. Go check it out. Believe Networks

YouTube channel and Lorenzo, thanks for making. Hold on. Before we wrap it up, just because this is such a fucking smashball football. Can you put your hands up, Jules, real quick? Look at that fucking pinky. Lorenzo, can you put your hands up real quick? That's fucking 90s football

right there. Hey, that's, hey, Julie's I can get, ah. I hate that. You messed up the plate under where it doesn't, it dislocates. Dislocate. I had that on this one. Dude, that thing is beautiful. Did you get the surgery?

I tried. See, that's why I won't do it. They tried to and it didn't work. And it makes it stiff. And that's what they're like, because I can still move it. I can get it into a fist. But look, I mean, I had that my whole. Right.

And if I did this one, it would be, I don't want it, I don't want it stuck down. No. Would you rather have it up? If that's the part. I know, you'd rather have it up. And then I would do that, I would do that tape around because my neck will This thing, my knuckle would pop out any time I'd hit. So I'd have to do a tape thing every day to keep it, like, placed in.

But it wouldn't hurt. You know, you know, when you, you calcified all that shit. Right. But, like, it would be annoying in the middle of the play. You're popping it. Popping it. Yeah. Buddy was my favorite.

If people can go to, uh, actually go to Boltz in Brazil. Boltin Brazil. Bolton Brazil. com. I'm going to Brazil. Hell yeah. Come on with me, Bill. Come on.

We're going to first week. They're playing the Kansas City Chiefs. I know you'd be pulling for the Chargers, playing against the Chiefs in Brazil, and the games on Friday. It's the first week of the season. I know. So let's roll, baby.

Let's go. Jules, me and you, the Sal and Pepper team, baby. Come on, let's go, dog. What's up? I would love to. The thing is, we got us see because I work with the Fox Show.

Got you. Got you. So we're in studio on Sundays. Got you. And I've been, we've been trying to get down to this. Brazil game. Tell me you want to go to that one.

Also an Ireland game this year, too. And you'll be back Saturday. But you think about it. We could fly back Saturday. Games on Friday. We'll figure it out. Let's figure this out. We'll figure it out.

We'll take over Brazil. What is built for Brazil? Boltz in Brazil. Boltz in Brazil. For the Chargers, bolts. And so you can go to Bolts in Brazil. You can go there. You can get your tickets.

Big Telgate. All everything's inclusive. It's going to be absolutely legendary. Boltzumbezill.com. Go to bolts in Brazil. dot com and holly with you boy lo neal we can get crazy crazy crazy they'll get crazy over there i just know if jules goes to brazil we're probably not seen him for a couple weeks he's with me he's not i hope he's flying back on saturday man jules we're gonna go pray for

people over there he's good we're good jules we're good hallelujah oh yeah we're good we're good we're good over here lorenzo thank you so much oh thank you you're the best brother we'll be right back after this quick break Hello, I'm John Lithgow. We choose to go to the moon. I want to tell you about my new fiction podcast. That's one small step for man. It's about Buzz Aldrin, one of the true pioneers of space.

You're a great pilot, Buzz. As far as I'm concerned, the best I've seen. That's the story you think you know. This is the story you don't. Predisposition to depression, alcohol abuse, and suicide. We'll see, Buzz, try to overcome demons. What do you say, Buzz? beer and triumph over addiction here's to you buzz aldron good luck to you and become a true hero buzz

and i will proceed into the lunar module not because he conquers space but because he conquers himself buzz we intercepted a soviet radio transmission starring me john lithgow can you put it through in the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i'm jake Khofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eater's podcast network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all. Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, more and found the stream to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer.

Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect podcast network. Tune in on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. American History is full of wise people.

What women said something like, you know, 99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is gory. Those founding fathers were gossipy AF, and they love to cut each other down. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, the show where you send us your questions, about American history, and I find the answers, including the nuggets of wisdom our history has to offer. Hamilton pauses, and then he says, the greatest man that ever lived was Julius Caesar. And Jefferson writes in his diary, this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on corruption. My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said.

It would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Man, that was a fun episode. We could have talked to another five hours. I love that era of football. You see how his energy was? The fullback guy, always positive.

Always like, but we'll, like, eat nails. Dude, and you, like, you FaceTime Mike Allstock if you guys talked afterwards. Yeah. Oh, we got to get him on the show. That was incredible. I mean, he... I don't know if I'm going to say this, but he left his family in the car for the whole

interviews, two-hour interview. I go, but they're going to Disneyland now. I know, but that's only a fullback would do that. They'll toughen him up. Or going to Disneyland. They need to earn going to Disneyland. Did you see if there was a crack in the way they were up to him? I didn't get to see.

I just heard. Or I would have said, like, dude, bring the family. We always have people in. I think we gave them the option. I think he wanted to have them in the car. are toughing him up smash mouth parenting low man wins baby i love it well it's time huh no he was he was great i love that era he did he picked a great game also i didn't even realize he was a part i should know that he was a part of the miracle in uh miami no the um music city miracle yeah music city miracle

that's such recency bias that we think about that game when the other game was way better which one music city miracle is like a legendary real game yeah We're tainted with Miracle in Miami because of the loss naturally, subconsciously for me. And there's also Minneapolis Miracle. Yeah, there's so many miracles. Miracle on ice. There's a Motor City miracle, too, I think. The miraculous catch.

Cory Schlesinger. I looked him up when we were like when I wasn't paying attention to you guys. Hunter catches. Oh, no, that's Larry Centers. So, yeah. Slesinger just like 90s, lions. I think he's got two neck rolls on. Just absolute fucking stuff.

you know he looks like do you ever watch the show did you ever watch the show playmakers on ESPN I didn't I used to there was like a white was on during like my career no no 2009 2008 was it really playmakers maybe 2005 they're rerun it on ESPN when I I saw it remember watching should we reboot playmakers 2003 oh yeah yeah this guy right here the lead of playmakers I love how every San Diego Charger from the old San Diego Charger comes at me

like I'm a part of these old San Diego Charger like buddy I was in seventh grade Antonio Gates and Lowe have been killing me about this this divisional round playoff game

because you're Mr. Patriot right so all of their hatred towards Patriot is you're like the personification of it so they just got to hate you I understand it whatever you know what we need to chill out and it's time to get in the chill zone brought to you by cores light i'm in the wrong computer hole i want to show you something real quick that's him i don't know looks like it guy from playmakers versus cori slessinger yeah there you go linebacker fullback look at the arms though difference well you know one's an actor one's a real

fucking man that's what i'm telling you show ponies versus race horses yeah rhino versus pony that's just personnel group we had pony personnel was that's like fast No, it was the same kind of thing where you'd have like a hybrid running It'd be a three receiver We were our pony was I went to Y We took out a tight end Kept an F and a running back in H

So it was two receiver It was two running back three receiver It's always some kind of smaller version of something The Pony I just that like we talked about it in the show But watching the highlights from that game and just seeing Lorenzo O'Neill line up in front of Mike Allstott, and it's just like, that's your fucking backfield.

It's so funny how. It's incredible. None of these guys probably feel like we felt after having two bad plays in a game. What do you mean? You know how, like, he said he was going over, yeah, you know, everyone sees that game-winning block, but you know you're about to get your ass reamed about the four plays or the one-two plays that you messed up critical.

that no one really sees. I wonder how that's dealt with now. It just seems like it's been different. Everyone's so anti-like accountability on the team thing now. Yeah. Like I wonder where that balance is. I'm going to go look at these camps.

I'm going to go check out some camps. Do you know which ones? You do the locals? I want to do the San Diego. I mean... The charges are, I think, in San Diego. I mean, are they in San Diego? I think so.

For their camp. That's kind of tight if they are. I think they are. I want to go to L.A. Chargers. I want to go to, you got to go to the Rams. I have a cool relationship with McVeigh and Les Sneed. And my guy left, K. Lee, wouldn't become the OC at freaking Houston. Houston. Yeah.

I would love to go see Houston if I could. I want to see, I get to go to Chicago for Fox and cover the preseason game. Cool. That'll be fun. Who are they playing? I got to look that up But it'll be fun to get to see I want to go maybe a couple days early

See if they have joint practice And get to go watch those reps Is it Bill's Dolphins or Chiefs It's either dolphins or Bills I think it's Bills 17th Yeah Yeah that's the second game Yeah that's cool

They're doing some joint practices Time for the Chill Zone Brought to you by Coors Light Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door Visit Coorslight dot com slash gw n and celebrate responsibly since football's almost back and the guys are back in camp we're going to break down training camp life as an NFL football player let's get into it did we do the cracks already I missed them yeah you missed it crack dog I got the crack bills and bears are

doing during practices I know that'd be fun I want to go see if I can I mean Josh Allen huh you'll meet Josh Allen in passing yeah I bet you and McDermott would get along. Wrestling guy, hard-nosed guy. Who? Their head coach. Yeah, I know that, but me and him? Yeah, why not?

Not a wrestling guy. Yeah, but you're wrestling guy adjacent. You're wrestling guy adjacent. How come every wrestling guy says I should wrestle? You play like a wrestler. Yeah. Dude, I was like swift with the ball in my hands. No, but like, no, no, not like that.

In terms of like toughness, fucking playing above your weight class in terms of like hitting. You know, not taking no for an answer. That's more like Navy SEAL, dog. Oh, yeah, you're a Navy SEAL. I wish. Still some. Harry Kraft, Navy SEAL. Is that Mr. Craft's grandson?

Grandson. Wow. Jonathan. That's badass. That's fucking badass. So, so training camp is in full force right now. No, it's going.

It's happening. We're cooking. I can feel my hamstrings at night. They're like, what's going on? You should be running right now. You don't smell the grass here, though, right? You don't get that, like, that, like, there you do you get the grass melt here

what do you think I do every morning when I go out and collect my 15 minutes of UV rays to get my melaton clock right I go and I ground my feet on that little dewy grass in the backyard and we get due here bro it's been chilly here in L.A.

Not chili like honestly perfect but I love how chili in L.A. is 76 and 7. People come to L.A. and they're like so cold here because they think it's like 100 always. It's not. It's 75 and sunny. Yeah, but it's all about if you're in the sun. Where you live? If you're not in the sun and it's 75 degrees, it's cold as fuck.

But if you're in the sun and it's 65 degrees, you're hot. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, training camp questions. Pull back the curtain behind what life like is in training camp. Now that's happening. I know it's probably a little bit different from when you played to now, but let's talk about it anyway. Do you remember your first training camp? Yeah. What was it like the first time, like, you walked in that building? It was like a beat for beat when you walked into the building for the first time. It's a mixed emotion.

You're like, especially for a rookie, my situation, I was seventh round draft pick, changing position. Like, I was in a different, it's different for everyone. But I could probably say it's similar for everyone that, like, there's a, there's like a nervousness anxiety that's floating. did I do enough work in the off-season? Am I in good enough shape? Am I going to be able to make the team?

What's going to, am I going to be able to fix the six things that I didn't do in many camps the way I really wanted to that they talked to me about? Like there's a lot of that going on in your head. And then for me, as a first rookie camp, we still had double days. And I was in a, anticipating that I was going to be on like a lot of stuff and I've never really ran a lot in practice you know so like I was a quarterback you guys have to have the half the time you're like playing like goal line game goal post throws you know while special teams are working their nuts

off or you're doing like quarterback stuff but it was never like taxing so I was like nervous for that and then you also had your conditioning test that you wanted to go in and I always wanted to going and turn heads so I wanted to show them how easy it was so you're anticipating that there's like a lot of and then there's like I remember there's a lot of logistics so many logistics schedules and well you got to go over the whole rule book or like an abridged version meeting of the rules you go over every year when you when you get in you take your physical you do your conditioning test and there's a team meeting I always depend if you came back early if you're a quarterback you came back you had to go to the early camp rookies early camp injured's early camp so you

you had to do three days before everyone else reports and then you know when you get there you do your physical it's kind of like the first day of school everyone's got like a fresh fit on everyone's got a sun tan someone's got bleached hair yeah someone's got something you know the new there's a new car in the drive you know in the someone got paid yeah someone got paid yeah but Free agent, new meat? What? New meat, free agent, big free agent. New, yeah, but you've seen that you've seen, we've all seen each other.

Of the mini camps and the OTAs. But this is, you know, guys bring shit. You know, you see guys bring their system because we stayed at a hotel. Roommate or no roommate? Rookie year roommate. Okay. Who's your roommate, rookie year? Who's my rookie?

I had a, I had a, he was a guy that was like in his third year, but he was bouncing around the league. He had a hyperbaric chamber. I forgot his name. That's sick. Yeah, he had a hyperbaric chamber in the living room. I asked if I could use it. He let me use it for a little.

Did it work? Didn't feel a thing. But you report, and then you have to do your conditioning test. And when we do our conditioning test... Is that day one? Conditioning test? Okay. Yeah, this is after the physical.

Once you've been cleared for your physical, there's like a lunch, and then there's the conditioning test. Now, when we do our condition. conditioning test, everyone in the organization would be out on the conditioning field to watch. I'm talking personal scouts or the personnel scouts, the college scouts, every football coach. There's like 200 people associated with team, all with their little fucking notebooks, all like giving your mean mugs, like the start of the season's about to start. you know and so a lot of you get a lot you get anxiety from that you know you're sitting there

especially when it's your first few times doing it you're like oh fuck ownership or owner mr crafts out there fucking walking around you know everyone's there they want to see what who you know what I mean yeah and so you do the conditioning test and then after that's done you have a team meeting you go through all the rules and so you basically you know you go over you're late you know, it's $5,000. If you're, you miss a day unannounced or unexcused, it's $20,000. Uh, if you're over your report weight, each pound, it's $562 each day. It's over.

So if that's two pounds, Bill would go to someone. What's the math of that? You know, what's that? It'd be like some, you know, oh, it's $1,200 bucks, coach. Right. $1,200. Like, he would do that, right? And then he'd go, every year he would go in and he would talk about,

look, if it burns, you can't have it in the hotel room. Don't be coming here with your incense, your fucking candles. If it burned, like, we could never burn anything inside the hotel. Clearly didn't know smoking. So, like, you know what I mean? But, like, if it burned. And then after the Matt Light thing, remember when he brought a crossbow on? We would go over the, I didn't realize it was because of Matt Light.

He would go over that rule. You can't gamble on NFL facilities. You can't have a weapon anywhere on an NFL facility. And it says guns. But he'd be like, and light, that means crossbows, slingshots. slingshots he would give like all these examples swords don't be fucking

you can't have like it would it would be like like any dudes ever bring like animals like a pet or anything like someone's got like a tarantula they bring the lineman brought a duck and put it in Donald's locker and it lived there for like three days and I think Nate Solder took

the duck and raised it and the duck is somewhere still alive I think amazing no um so we go over all the rules and and so you get there at like eight the conditioning test is at like one this meeting is at like four and so they would schedule all this stuff so you couldn't leave the facility but you had downtime at the facility so you're basically there all day and then you go over like expectations coaches vision of the team and then

you break up OD and you get into like, all right, this is what we're installing for tomorrow. And then it fucking just jumps into it. Yeah. Backtrack real quick. It's no secret that NFL players participate in weed. So where were guys going to smoke? Or are they just doing non-smoking ways or like would they go in car, like take rides or like how'd that work? No one would smoke at the hotel.

Okay. But you had flexibility. It's not like you were like locked down going from like hotel to facility. No. And also guys had houses. Like we had a, I had, my house was like on the way. We just go to the house for, but you had curfew, so you had to sleep. So we go to, if we had like a two-hour break, we'd go play ping pong at my house for 45 to an hour.

Now, do guys just absolutely resent having to go to hotels when they live nearby? Yeah. Or was it nice to just be, hey, we're in camp. Let's fucking start. Let's be here. Yeah. I mean, it's just part of it. Yeah.

I don't, you know, it was kind of nice. To get focused, to signify the start. Yeah, you didn't have to, like, worry about shit. You didn't, you know what I mean? It kept the, kept the main thing, the main thing. You didn't have to worry about clothes, this, that. I mean, you did, but. Just less.

It was just like less. Less distractions. Yeah. Yeah. And when did you guys move out of the hotel? Dude, I remember being like five weeks or something. That's a lot. It used to be long.

Now they're only there for like two weeks. Were the beds at least nice? They set them up nice? Shout out residents in. They're all right. Yeah. Not like your home bed. I think I brought a mattress by like your six, seven, eight.

Now, people always ask, I'm sure, with training camps, like, what's the worst part of training camp? But what's the best part? Like, what's something that, like, people don't realize it's, like, fun or something you look forward to with regards to training camp? Uh, best, best part of training camp is, you know, the excitement of the start. It's the start of the season. you know the crowds out there you know you've been in OTAs you've been in mini camps and it's just the team there you go out there and you get to feed off the energy of the crowd uh the first like five day or four days are like all right yeah and then after that it just becomes a grind

then you start getting tired like not you're tired but you get beat up when you start introducing pads and when you used to hit a lot more you know it was tough and like I remember in my early part of my career with the double days it was run in the morning in the afternoon, you had your sleep rooms, like guys would take naps. There's like designated rooms with a bunch of mattresses and you'd be like a fucking Vietnamese opium den and you'd have like 18, 7 foot freaking athletes hanging off a bed trying to get in 35 minutes to sleep before the next practice because it's 82 degrees, 88 degrees with fucking 90% humidity in Boston. I mean, it was, it's just a grind.

And what makes it really hard is that you have to focus when you're tired. Yeah. It's like, it's like Hell Week. I mean, not like Howe Week. Hell Week is way worse, like with the Seals, but like having to go in and after when you're a young player and you were on everything, you had to go balls of the walls, both practices every day. But then you had to go in and install at night for the next day. And you had to correct things from the early practice to the second practice. It was like you had to be on when you were dying, like, you know, tired and mentally exhausted from, you know, the amount of stuff that you're doing.

And it's all new. You know, you didn't want to fuck up your hair pin turn on fucking special teams and or the three plays that they installed for kickoff that day. and then you had, you know, an additional NASCAR sheet that you had to remember for the five terms that you could use for the conditioning the next day. Like, it was just a lot of, like, a lot of, like, studying. Yeah. And when you're tired.

Yeah. Mental stamina. Mental stamina. Yeah. And that's where, you know, guys would not make the team is when they'd fuck up their formations or they would be slow and not do something on that, you know, we went over.

Like, that's part of this process. Training camp is essentially it's a race to who could be the best and most effective prepper going into the season, meaning who knows how to install their shit? Who knows how to practice effectively? Who knows how to get all their plays ran in practice without having to fuck it up and start over a program? You know, who can take the, you know, the drills the best

and which coaching staffs can come up with the drills that will put these guys in situations for ball security, like it's a race who can prepare the best that's what it is now um do you ever lose your playbook or ever see anyone lose their playbook no no you don't i wouldn't i would only bring my playbook to like my house or like you weren't i wasn't carrying it around to fucking and you had you had binder and then transition started off three inch binder and then like i think in 2011 12 like my fourth or third year we started going to the iPad

Okay And it used to be You know Now the iPad is The best because it has the library Of all your cutups And coaches can just send you All right guys

We got a 30 play cut up Of their DBs here You know before that You know I have probably 800 CDs That you could go into the film guys And say hey can I get those cutups or coaches would distribute, you know, all right, watch this for tomorrow's practice. We're going to go over it in this.

You know what I mean? So like the iPad is such a technological fucking advance. Yeah. Because it just makes it, I mean, but, you know, a lot of the older guys that came from the binders, even when we had the iPads would stay binder. Like Brady would stay binder. There's something about having something tactile that you can write on and you have a pencil and you can flip through.

But I can see the simple. publicity of an iPad that it's all fucking there. Yeah. It's just also the, you know, everyone prepares differently and like some people need to be pen on paper because they, by the time, you could even highlight the plays on

the fucking iPad, because you get your sheets of plays all drawn out. And I always used to like to go over them with my highlighters and my spots and color coat made my shit. Like the X was always a red or you know, the Z was always the yellow. The pink was the other, you know what I mean?

And I would do all my, and then the coaching point what the coach would say, it just sometimes jotting it down was, I used to jot still. Yeah. But I used my iPad for the film. The film, it was like the best.

Yeah, just it's all of it. Yeah. Did you ever see any guys, and maybe this didn't happen to England, but do you ever see any guys maybe play up injuries or a little bit to get a little bit of, like maybe some veterans just not have to be,

participate as much or like any little games like that to just kind of conserve energy? we were pretty good with that yeah i remember when i broke my thumb bobby balls one of my ball guys i was doing i was i was i was i think i was rehabbing rehabbing my shoulder i think and i was running routes and i was on p u p and like i broke my thumb doing ball drills and like they kind of i was trying to get back and they kind of were like let's just like at that point of my career they're like we need you in fucking January we don't need you in September right now can you like you know

I mean so like there's a lot of that yeah and you know there's always I the game is the like the guys that barely make the team that whole injury stuff that's and I was on that game but like I was never it's you know do you cut a guy to put them on or do you medical red shirt or do you uh you you you put them on i are there's a bunch of those things that play yeah i don't i didn't i was never a part of i kind of know but whatever do you ever see any out of out of the blue kind of cuts or roster moves that like the team kind of like oh shit like yeah there was always there's always like there was always a joker maker

like a joker card or what do they call that there was always like a just one there was always like a surprise make every year yeah but you guys like the most traded or when you were there for a while you knew who the guys were going to like

you could tell by you could tell by performance how coach is talked attitudes of certain players, willingness of certain players, rep distribution to those players after doing well in certain things, maybe in a completely different aspect of the game,

but you see them get rewarded, take advantage. You could see that stuff. So like a fan might see, oh, that guy got trainer, that guy got cut. A fan could also see, like, you know, a guy that has like a billion catches, but half of them were like not really, You know what I mean?

So there wasn't any, like, big surprise moves. Because you, when you're plugged in, you understand the patterns. You understand how it's going. It doesn't come out of the blue. It took me, like, four or five years to realize. Yeah. You know, there, every, but before that, I was like, oh, my God, we traded Richard Seymour? Yeah.

Oh, God. Logan Manx is gone? Oh, what? We cut this guy? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because you never know what they're trying to build the team for. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And you don't know how, because our, our team. was always different because we wouldn't it's like standard all right you usually always keep six receivers you keep five running backs you know what i mean ours i remember one year like we had like four receivers going like we cut down to four receivers because we there's also the free agency game of the other teams that your personnel department's been eye in and and scanning to see who's let go in that world yeah so it's like an ongoing thing yeah what's the um the biggest like faux pa or fuck up you you've seen a rookie do i mean anytime a like an undrafted guy or a rookie

like is late to something i'm like i would just turn them off that means you don't think this is serious enough because i remember like i i literally for a preseason game when i was like balling already i remember i lost the keys to my hat my car and we had in this was for a preseason game for the meeting that I knew I wasn't playing in. I lost the keys to my car. It was when I lived in Foxborough and we had a new neighbor and I had all the, all the, my neighbors were players that were already at the facility. You were like on an island. And there was no Uber. Yeah. And so I'm literally on an island. I went to a person's house I had no clue of. This new neighbor. I said, hey, I know this is kind of crazy, but I have.

22 minutes to get to a place it's going to take me 15 minutes to go through now you're going to say it's going to be 30 but with the way you'll drive with me in the car we're going to be good on cops will you take me to my team meeting and this person literally yes they took me they only lived that house

for like they left but you make it on time I made it on time one minute I came sprinting in chatio goes bro you could have just told me I would have fucking told you we're good like sweating bullets I think I already had a Super Bowl

couldn't you just ride your bike well no the you can't because it was so it's we used to stay like in Sherrott Wall Pool or Sheraton Sheraton 4 points Oh okay I got you It wasn't the

It wasn't pacing for training camp Yeah it wasn't okay Different hotel Okay I got you I mean I went through it Well shout out to your and your neighbor knew who you were and you were able to be like...

I don't know. Yeah, they did. Yeah. They did. Shout out them. Shout out them. What's the biggest improvement you saw someone, like maybe a rookie or an undrafted person? One of the biggest improvements I ever saw was

James White. Really? And it was not just from training camp, but it was from like his first year to his second year. Like we, he didn't, I think he was on IR or something. He didn't play much as rookie year.

I think we won a Super Bowl. What year was his rookie year? He was drafted in 2014. He's a fourth-round pick out of Wisconsin. Yeah. But he was on that team, so he has three Super Bowls,

but I don't know how much he played his rookie year. He played three games, yeah. Yeah, and then he went on IR. Yeah. And then... No, he didn't play any games. Yeah, he didn't play any games.

Yeah. And so when I were, remember i remember watching him come back from year two he looked like a different football player like because he was in that program they when when you're not playing say you're on practice squad or or you're hurt like they have a whole different life they live with like the the weight staff those guys and they're like breaking these guys and training these guys like college style training where they have to wake up early get their work out the run before they have to do all like the football stuff with the team.

Like they work the fuck out of those guys. And a lot of those guys that don't bitch and complain about it that take advantage of it a la James White go on to be a lot better because of it. And he is the prime example of that. Someone who, you know, didn't fucking bitch or moan when he was a fourth round draft pick

and didn't like really play his rookie year was going on to a team that went on to win a Super Bowl with Shane Verene who caught 13 goddamn passes or whatever. Record receptions, yeah. You know, we like Kim go. Because of James, you know, and then, you know, James did what he did. But, like, seeing him develop and progress was like, man, he worked his fucking balls off. No, no, what are some, like, fun moments from training camp?

Things maybe coaches did this fun. I know you guys would go see movies. Yeah, we'd go see a movie. They'd break it up. We'd do, like, a team movie. I got to see what movies. We did a lone survivor. We did lone survivor, and Walberg came and talked to the whole team.

And they rent out a theater and get all the snacks and stuff for the boys, Unlimited, which is, it's so fun when you have that, like, surprise. Yeah. You know what I mean? Now it's like every four days you have a day off in training camp. That would be after, like, nine days of grinding, maybe 11. You'd make a lineman try to catch a punt. Anytime you got to miss a meeting or, like, there is a team thing where we all had to come together to, like, get out of meetings.

That was the best thing in football. Rookie skits. The older you get, the more you need the rookie skits, because it becomes repetitive. I've heard verbatim these same meetings for, you know, 9, 10, 11, 12 years. No firearms, got it. Thank you.

Or, you know, you're literally repeating what coach says before he says it. You know, so like the rookie skits are always just a great breakup. and then you get to also learn your teammates who's funny of these guys who thinks they're a little too full of himself of these guys who's like got no heart when it comes like you learn a lot through these rookie skits

you know who's just a straight killer that like wants nothing to associate with this but plays so good that you're like okay fuck it you know what I mean yeah it puts himself out there to be a part of the team even though they don't like it yeah it's it those are those are the fun things the movie was great

we did a paintball thing once was that OTAs or regardless we did a paintball thing where we went as a team and paintballed which was fun we used to go to like the bowling alley up at Patriot place a bunch yeah Lucky strike or whatever

Yeah and anytime like we'd have our family We'd have like family days We're like you got off meetings early And they'd barbecue and they'd bring in all the floaties for the kids. I remember Lily at a young age getting to bring her and they'd put them all in the stadium for the kids and they're running around and I'm just sitting there like, man, that's so

that had to be so fun as a kid, you know what I mean? Yeah, core memories for kids to see that stuff. Yeah, those are, those are, and then like, you know, just the best thing, you know, like when you're, those days when, when you're older, when people, when, when, practice finished it was like the best but it changed on why throughout your career you know it was the best because you're shot you're tired like they used to work you and it was hot you know what i mean and it was full go full pad and then you know when you're younger it's just like to go out and get like the line faster for food or you know like get a sleep bed you know by time you're older it's

you get to see your little kid come run on the field and you know you get to go engage with the fans and go engage with a lot of the Patriots Foundation, organizational people, which, you know, it seems after a long-ass day of work, it's, you know, it's a lot, but it was always gives you a perspective afterwards. So, you know, and it also gives you the memories. I remember being that kid going at the training camp for the Niners or the softball games for the Niners and you know what I mean like those that's the fun stuff getting there early I love that the process the work the process yeah now it fucking sucked and it was a grind if don't I hated it yeah like you hate it but you love it and you need it yeah you know it's

kind of like when you're a parent and your kid has a cough yeah you know that they don't like the taste I have to pin like my kid down to take the the the cough medicine She's like, oh, I can't hear that. But when the cough goes away, they hate it. Yeah. They hate the taste, but the cough goes, it becomes effective. They're like, oh, yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of the same thing, like that hill when we have to run that fucking hill. How many times up and down the hill you think you've run? I mean, a lot. Probably in the thousands. Thousands. If you think about it, we'd do like seven, six after practices, no off season. You can count that up.

So that's 600 in one. season-ish you're saying I don't know a lot was there any sort of like this is the last question any sort of like

ritualistic thing you guys would do to signify the end of training camp like when I play we did doubles when doubles were over we'd go eat our faces

with China buffet shut up monkrag football they're dead now but like we just like eating China buffet was like the end of camp and now we're going it's like anything

you guys would do like ritualistically that would be like camp's over now we're fucking there used to be the craft party okay in the cape in the cape yeah but it it was always a little tricky because sometimes

there'd be a guy there'd be a guy that didn't make there'd be a guy that would go to the party and that got cut because it's like a more of like a like would be like a ring thing too or no it's more of like the final team okay goes to not the final team but like it's like the start to the season when in theory you're supposed to have your final team in the books but we always had like moving parts guys get cut bring guy in yeah so like that was always like uh you could tell who thought they were comfortable in making the team is who would show up to that party but there were a couple times where there'd be some guys getting knocked at the party oh jean i think yeah but that was kind of like the last because your family is again we're there yeah um is training

i don't keep saying last one but actually last one um how was training camp different the year after a Super Bowl versus just a regular training camp yeah there's a difference because anyone who's new on the team thinks that they're a part of it okay and i don't realize how hard it is to get there and then there's a learning curve for that and then there's also you know there's different situations for each year you know sometimes guys are banged up going into it guys get i was emotion you get emotionally drained sometimes after a long period of of success yeah like the training camps is like what clears the cobwebs and Bill did a great job of that and the coaching staff did a great job of that of always keeping us you know some would say a little too good of a job at

that of keeping us yeah level minded yeah okay cool that's good uh fans if you have any more follow up i know training camp's a huge subject so if you have any more questions you want to ask on training camp maybe we'll do another part uh of training camp conversations while camp's happening so um anything you want more answers on shoot them in the comments we'll like We'll do it. And it's comments anywhere. YouTube, Spotify, on social media, all that, jazz. Well, that was the chill zone.

Thanks to our favorite beer, Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit Coorslight.com slash GwN. Celebrate responsibly. What a game. And thanks again to Lorenzo Neal. He was awesome. Freaking.

Core football guy. Dude, he looks like he can still go open a hole. he's jacked yeah it's thick two sea thick and that's been another episode of games with names subscribe on apple podcast Spotify wherever you listen to podcasts

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