Games with Names - Miracle on Ice with Jim Craig | 1980 Winter Olympics: Soviet Union vs. United States

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Jim Craig is in studio! The Olympic gold medalist and hockey legend is with us to relive what might be the greatest game of all time: Miracle on Ice. Jim joins us on the couch (2:30). We go back to February of 1980 (39:52). We dive into these rosters (46:37). We get into the game (1:14:40). We score it (1:58:07). We wrap it up by highlighting some of the greatest sports announcer calls of all time (2:07:53)Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and my latest interview is with Wiz Khalifa. The craziest part of my life, I can go from performing in front of 40,000 people to either being in a dressing room, being in a plane or being back in a bed all by myself. He is a multi-planet ceiling recording artist, mini mogul and an actor. Which among the one, the only, Wiz Khalifa! Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You know, we're out celebrating. We're in blue Crush the Lord sweatsuits. And so Herb says tomorrow morning, 6.30 a.m., meet us in the hotel. Because the president of the United States and the first lady had invited us to the White House. We get on this bus and this bus takes us to this little teeny airport.

And there's an airplane waiting for us But it's no ordinary airplane. It's Air Force one. How was that? Welcome to games with names. I'm Julian Edelman They're Jack and Kyler and we are on a mission to find the greatest game of all time and on today's episode Boy, do we have a crazy one? We are covering Miracle on Ice with the 1980 national team goalie and gold medal winner Jim Craig.

We get off to talk in one of the greatest upsets in sports history. We executed the game plan flawlessly. And then we also get into what the movie got right. Wait, so the movie speech is actually fairly close to the movie? Very close, yes. Again. is actually fairly close. Very close. Yes Again What her Brooks is really like if they don't like me

Maybe they'll like each other when Belichick wasn't there like this guy put money in the bank And we relive some of the most iconic announcer calls in sports history Those are fun and we do an impression of them. Is there a band on the field? We'll find out. You gotta stick around. You gotta stick around. It's a wild one. Let's go.

Let's go. Games with Names is a production of iHeartRadio. February 22nd, 1980. Olympic Center, Lake Placid, New York. If we play the Russians 10 times, they might be this night, but not this time not tonight boys Tonight we are the greatest hockey team in the world. Do you believe in miracles? Yes. This is miracle on ice Hell yeah

Hell yeah! It was fun. Welcome to Games with Names. Today we are looking at Miracle on Ice, the Soviet Union versus Team USA in the 1980 Winter Olympics with the one and only Jim Craig. Now Jim, the goalie, in one sentence, why is this game so important to you? It's about believing in your dreams and the American way, you know, to be able to have a dream and make it come true and represent something much bigger than yourself. Yeah. Is this the greatest game of all time? One of the things I always tell people, either you're creating the future, you're living in the past, so you

always hope that there's a better game or a better athlete or the sport keeps improving, right? And I always think in an era, so to me, life has chapters. And now I'm in the grandfather chapter of my life. It's like fabulous. And so I just think there's a chapter in time during the Cold War was this was the greatest sports moment ever. Now will it be or what that's for other people to tell. Yeah. Now how often do you get asked about this game? Every day. Every day. Do you like it? Well it makes people happy you know and you're a vehicle for doing something that is really important. You know, you won a Super Bowl for the New England Patriots. I represent a country and won a gold medal.

Yeah. It's a difference. There's a difference. 100%, especially with where you guys are going through. Right, and so during that period of time, I think it's really special to, you know, and I know you know this, right? There is a difference between being an underdog and a winning underdog. It's a mindset, right?

And what I'm most proud of is our coach and the players that I was fortunate enough to play with. We were all winning underdogs, right? We weren't just underdogs, because underdogs have excuses. Winning underdog knows that the challenge that they'd be putting up against is really pretty difficult. Maybe it's halftime versus Atlanta for you. Yeah. But that's the difference between people who know how to win. And one of my favorite sayings is, winners win.

Winners win, baby. Winners win. Now, what's the difference between a winning underdog and an underdog? Well, you've been in athletics long enough, and whether it's athletics or sports or life, people have talent, but they don't use that talent. So being a Boston fan, you think of Dustin Padure, a little teeny thing. And when you look at a guy like him, you say, he did all this with this talent yeah that's to me that's the winning underdog because he just doesn't he or she does not take no for an answer it's just

it's this mindset that they have that they're gonna do whatever it takes to win and when you play sport long enough and you know I think you're 12-14 years right injuries reinvent yourself you know you constantly have to figure out how to stay valuable and it doesn't matter how it is and that's that's the winning underdog the underdog has an excuse that I got injured I'm not quite as fast you know you know all those other things the winning underdog no, no, winning is the most important thing and I just got to figure out how to do it. It's being able to adjust.

Yeah, it's adaptability. It's dealing with ego and conflict. I always say to people, ego is swagger. Conflict is change. If you manage that, you'll always be relevant. I love that. Ego is swagger. Is swagger and conflict is change. If you manage that, you'll always be relevant. I love that. Ego is swagger is swagger and conflict is change. You got to manage both. Wow. You know, just looking into this whole matchup, I mean, you guys are a bunch.

Average age, you guys are 21. You know, you're going against a team that's played with each with each other for freaking 32 years. And the two things that you've brought up already, a winning underdog and then ego is what, Jackie? Change. No, the conflict is change. Ego is swagger, conflict is change, yes.

I love that. We're back, we're back. Now Jim, can you explain to me, a California kid, I grew up in the Bay Area. When 1994, the Sharks were playing for the first time in the Cow Palace. My dad rounded us up. We went in. We didn't even get into the first period. We got lost because of parking. Didn't know much about hockey. Go out to New England. And I didn't realize how hockey's in the blood out there. Yeah.

And I didn't realize how hockey's in the blood out there. Yeah. What was hockey for you as a kid? Like, was that everything? Can you explain the love of hockey from someone who's from the Northeast, baby? Well, so I'm one of eight. Mm-hmm. And so hockey was a vehicle for me.

Vehicle. Yeah. It was a place that where I could go and skate on the ponds and didn't matter how much money somebody else had or how big they were because I was good enough. So if there was a bully out there, you could knock him down. When his head on the ice, it hurt.

Oh yeah. It was an equalizer, but it was never, ever work. It was just something that I was drawn to and enjoyed. You know I always explained to people that the reason why I'm so lucky, what you just said, it wasn't work. The reason why I'm so lucky is because my passion crossed with my talent. So then it never was work. Yeah and I think you can add to that Jules. I think what happens is your passion crosses with the talent as it's developing.

And then there's always people who tell you, you can't do something that either motivates you or shuts you down. And so to a winning underdog, it motivates. And so to me, it was always great to be told that I wasn't good enough, I wasn't big enough, I didn't come from the right area, because that was fuel, that was something.

And then not having many options to get to where I wanted to go, then I never played the sport for the adulation. It was always a vehicle for me. It gave me opportunities that I never would have. The intrinsic rewards of proving people wrong, that's something that I've made a living on. Oh, and that's why I was so excited

about being here today. I thought there were so many parallels on, I would go to the Patriots practice and I would see Bill and I would sit there and I would, I study people, I would go to the Patriot's practice and I would see Bill and I would sit there and I would, I study people, I love to watch, and I would watch you go through your routine, but it wasn't mundane, it was perfection, right? And it was counting steps and knowing steps and, and you you know to me it was the you know the learning that constantly constantly happens and and some people don't put

the time in to do that and you know I remember one coach saying to me one day goes you know goalies just stop the puck and And I would say, you know, no, a goalie's job is to know all the strengths and all the weaknesses, not only of his teammates, but the people he plays against, so that he can make your own skills better. Subconsciously. It's like deja vu, if you know the weaknesses of each guy,

then you know if this guy is struggling on defense, that there's probably that guy's strength to do this little cross back and he loves to go to that upper part of the net. I see you go another huddle look at Brady and say, got him, come on, let's go, I got him. You know what I mean? You knew, you know what I mean? And you know, that comes from paying attention to the smallest little details.

The smallest little details. Fundamentals. Yeah. And smallest little details. Fundamentals. Yeah, and they change, you know, and how do you stay relevant, right? That's really important, you know, as a speaker that speaks and does leadership with people, you know, I'm dealing with five different generations from Gen Zs to millennials to, you know,

all these other ones. And so how do you take this event and make it valuable? You know, what pieces of information can you provide that they can understand? And, you know, I always suggest to people, invite them to think this way. I remember I told my son, I said, JD, did you talk to Mom today? He goes, no, I don't talk to her. I text. And then my wife would say, you know, Jimmy, did you talk to the kids? And I said, yeah. And she'd say, they called you? I said, no, honey. I text Taylor. I text JD. So everybody knows how to communicate, but only in the way they want to communicate.

And so what happens is I think today, we really have to pay attention, and the younger generation has to understand how the older generation communicates. And the older generation has to understand how the younger communicate. And then communication's a pretty good thing. And in coaching and in sports and dealing with, over your 12 or 14 years of doing this thing, you saw coaches

not be able to get away with the things they used to do because it didn't work. Yeah. And so staying relevant becomes a really big deal. Yeah, you always have to evolve and going into coaching, you're talking about a coach. What you just said, being able to make something digestible for five different generations in a simple term. That's what a good coach does. That's what I always talk about with Belichick. He can make all this complex talk and all this, oh, we got to do this, this, that, but at the end of the day, he gives three keys on each side of the ball that we had to do and most of the time, if we did those three

things, we would win. A good coach can communicate to all in a simple form. You know what's interesting is I say there is no loyalty in leadership. And so leadership is about being responsible for the betterment of the team, not the individuals. And if you want to be great at doing that, you can't worry about being liked. But you want to be great at doing that you can't worry about being liked. Yeah.

Right? But you have to be respected and so when I think of Belichick as I know him and I look at her Brooks is it was really interesting. The thing I think they both had in common was if they knew the individual they would deal with, say it was you Jules, was capable of doing more, they would never let you do less. One. Secondly is, they would always put you in a position if you were the tool for the team to be successful.

And at the end, they really did care about you. But they were serving two masters. One was winning and the other one was developing. And so when I look at Herb, he developed players. And people would say to me, was he so hard? And I'd say, if he took the time to spend all that with me to make me better, I was pretty lucky. Because I always had different goals.

And so I always tell people people you are what your goals are Yeah, and as soon as you lose sight of a goal, then what are you gonna do? You're gonna live in the past, right? Yeah, it's it's interesting. I remember I came down to a Patriots practice once and I said hey Bill, you know, you know you know like Wide receivers he goes I don't need him. I get gunk You know what I mean? He said he had rendered himself Then I say to him, you know... Thanks, coach. No, the other point was he would say to him, you know, how's your defense this year? He goes, it doesn't matter. Our offense is so good, they won't

be on the field. You know what I mean? So it was always a way of winning, right? And you know, when mean? So it was always a way of winning, right? And when you think of catching after the ball and you look at the way you and Tom played, it was, you think about the relationship that a Belichick and a Brady have is they both made each other better, right? But remember, you got the opportunity because Bill saw something in Tom and

created a whole game plan around his abilities, you know, which is really kind of interesting. And I remember talking to him and say, you know, you know, Wes Welker, well, that's okay, we got everything. You know what I mean? And he knew it. You know what I mean? He knew that that that was going to happen and that was going to, you know what I mean? He knew that that was gonna happen and that was gonna transition. Yeah. Now, tell us more about this relationship with Bill. How'd you guys become close? I was in Nantucket doing a charity.

He's the mayor. Mayor of Nantucket, Bill Belichick. The part that was interesting is we were doing this fundraiser for a charity on ice with AJ McClesko and her family were really big. So there was a charity event where they auctioned off fishing with both Bill and I. And they paid lots of money to do this. And so I had never met Bill.

And so when I got on the boat, we were up fishing together and he loves to fish, I love to fish. And I said, hey, Bill, do you mind, I got a new profession, I would really like to pick apart the Patriots. You know? I like to go by player and so I started telling him some of my thoughts and then all of a sudden he kind of really enjoyed it and then we became friends from then on. Awesome. So how many, you used to come to our practices. I think I remember you. I spoke with him.

Yeah, I remember you came and spoke to the team a couple times. Thing is, we always had, like, you saw the working environment. We'd have people there every once in a while, but we were so focused on, I mean, you saw our practices. We practiced hard.

I'm assuming that you guys practiced pretty hard. Now, what are some of those similarities that Bill and Herb had? Well, there's a saying that I like to use, don't confuse being busy with being productive. And every one of ours was really very productive, right? And so what Herb Brooks realized from the very get-go was he played in the World Championship. His biggest understanding was the best players in the world didn't play for the National Hockey League. They couldn't. There was a Cold War. So the best players played for their countries. And so one of his biggest things that I saw

that was so different, right? Great coaches see trends before they become habits. And a lot of it has nothing to do with their jobs. It just, they see trends, right? And so that was one area that Bill and I really got into and liked. But Herb saw that the Russians were the best-condition conditioned hockey team in the world. And all other teams got close to them. But when it came time for the third period,

they just weren't in good enough shape. And so he ran into a friend of his out of Minneapolis, his name Jack Corrane, and we called him Cardiac Jack. And he, now you're talking 45 years ago, was a hit type professional trainer. Had studied the Russians, all he had done. So he was talking about quick twitch and slow twitch fiber and how it could be done, and what year you had to do it, how old you had to be. And so Herb Brooks was working on a deck with this guy

and he said to Jack, he said, Jack, what do we have to do to beat the Russians? He goes, you have to change everything you do. Now here's Herb Brooks winning national titles in college and he says, what do you mean by that? You have to get in shape. And so Herb had a team doctor who I lived with during the Olympics who had escaped from Latvia and his name was Dr. Nagabots and Dr. Nagabots spoke five

different languages. What languages? Russian you know. All Eastern stuff. So Herb went and coached in the World Championships a year before the Olympics, had Doc Nogobots talk to all these different coaches, got all their ideas and constantly got better and better at what he did. And so I think the big part that, you know, you see with the Belichick's of the world and the other ones is that there's always a way to win

It's just never the same. Yeah, right and you have to see trends before they become habits And you know I could spend a whole day with you telling you the things that Brooks did Yeah, that were amazing, but you're played sports long enough to know there are some coaches that are great at preparing you all week But when the game starts they open they open and close the door they don't know how to do anything different some people coach and they're not very good at preparing but during the game they're really good at adjusting very few are great at preparing and adjusting yeah and when you get somebody like that then then it's it's really special like let's see you're wearing O'Callaghan's jersey

right Brooks would know when O'Callaghan's jersey, right? Brooks would know when O'Callaghan was gonna do something stupid and pull him off the ice, you know what I mean? Because he knew he'd be so excited he was gonna get a penalty. So he had the ability to go, Jack, get off, you know what I mean?

And he was that in tuned on intimidation of the referee, intimidation of the other player, so many of the other different things. Wow, freakin' Herb. Is that story where he made you guys run after the? Skate. Skate, or sorry, I fucking, I'm a football guy. Skate, when he had you guys skate after the match, or?

The Norway game. The Norway game. How many did you do? So the match or? The Norway game. The Norway game. How many did you do? So the part that's really interesting, this basically talks about trends before they come habit. Yeah. So you heard Brooks' challenge that just kind of put this in perspective, right?

They didn't want him to be a coach. They wanted Parker or Billy Clary. So he had to convince him to be coach. Then the US hockey was okay with preparing to compete, not win, and there's a huge difference. So when we talk about underdog versus a winning underdog, is either you're, I'll go to companies when I speak to them I'll say, okay, where are we?

Are you guys preparing to win or compete? Are you looking to be bought or are you acquiring? Right? Because this is one or the other, right? Jules, we played 61 games before the Olympics. No other Olympic team had ever played more than eight. We played 47 of those 61 on the road. We did it in four months. The NHL played 80 games in nine, right? And so we practiced the day of a game. If you didn't like how we played during the game, we practiced after the game.

And it always comes down to the same thing. I always ask people, what's the most important thing in time management? What would your answer be? Productivity. It's knowing how much time you have. Knowing how much time you have. You can't be productive unless you know

how much time you have. Herb Brooks had six months to get this hockey team ready to beat the greatest team in the world. Yeah. And so the tactics and the way he did things were based on how much time he had. So here we are, we're playing the Norwegians, we're playing, we're getting killed as far as the schedule goes. We're going back and forth. The accommodations we had is you had three

guys to a room. Two guys got a bed and one guy didn't. And how that was decided was if you were the smallest guy, you got the car. Yeah. Right? You're hanging stuff inside the locker room. You're lugging all your own gear. You're trying to get it clean. So now we're playing a team that we think we're better than that. And so we play, don't take it really that serious. We tie it.

The trend is Brooks knows we're gonna play the end of the Olympics. It's gonna be the same thing. The Olympics back then wasn't set up for television. It was the real Olympics. So it was how many goals for, how many goals against, and everything was metriced. You guys beat the Russians,

and you could have not placed the next week. Exactly. Yeah, crazy. So Herb says, this is a bad trend. You can't not take anybody, nothing. So even though we tied in the Louisians, he knew we were going to play him in the Olympics. And so he stopped the trend from becoming a habit. And we skated and skated. But what he was doing that the Miracle Movie didn't really do is one of our best players was a guy named

Mark Johnson. Mark Johnson. Yeah and Mark Johnson's dad was an incredible coach. It's a great day for hockey. Yeah great day for hockey right you know totally two different personalities you know. Mark's dad was positivity, Brooks was you know more toughness right and I think Herb wanted to break Mark that day and let him know that his dad wasn't coaching him. So we skated and skated until Mark Johnson slammed his stick against the boards. That's how it really happened. And Mark Johnson is the coolest guy you'll ever meet, never gets upset. So to get him upset was something he liked. Now when did you guys come together and like, did you guys like Herb?

To me, I always liked Herb. You know, I had just lost my mother to cancer and I was there. It was like, it was a stepping stone to try to make it to the national hockey league. You know, when her asked me to play in the world championships and let a grad Moscow, I couldn't, if somebody showed me in the lineup, I wouldn't even know what he looked like. You know what I mean? It was just, you just played. So, to me, he always had my best interests in heart, and working hard was just part of the deal. Yeah. What about the boys?

Like when you guys are in the locker room and Coach ain't there, like when Belichick wasn't there, we were like, fuck this guy, this guy's making us run the goddamn hill, it's week 18, we got no knees. What's going on here? Yeah, put money in the bank. When did that comradery with the guys come together?

It was his strategy. If they don't like me, maybe they'll like each other. Because you guys were all from different places. Yeah. And we were gonna get into that, but. Yeah, and yeah, so you had a lot of guys who had him for four years, you know? Basically, it was Minnesota and four guys from BU. And then wasn't there Minnesota, BU and wasn't there the Wisconsin boys?

Yeah, basically, you know, guys from East Minnesota. Same thing. BU. When you're in Easton, was that like a big thing? Like, is that your dream when you were a kid to play at BU? Do you want to hear the whole story? Let's hear it. It's kind of interesting. Yeah.

So I'm an Irish Catholic altar boy. Yeah. I live just south of the city of Boston. So Boston College is like a big deal. BC? Yeah, that's where all the Irish guys go, right? And so I remember the priest one day, Father Buckley, said to me, hey, hey Jimmy I know you really want to get a full scholarship to

Play hockey. How about if I bring you in to meet the head coach of Boston College? Yeah So I said great now the problem is I'm a senior high school. I'm five foot three. I weigh 130 pounds Yeah, so I get to meet coach Saglasek and I look in there and he looks at me like How the hell did this guy get in here, right? This is a big-time probe. He's five foot three He plays for this place out in Easton called all of our aims You know, we don't take anybody here unless they're at a private prep school or they're play, you know Triple-a in Canada, right? Yeah, so I met him and I said you know coach I'd really like to be part of your program and he said Jimmy you're a fine young man but I

think you should stick close to home. Wow. So that's when I went back home I mean being one of eight we had no money and so I took my... Pissed you off? Well I took my goalie mask over and you know the the realization and reflection and and I really think reflection is a really big part of growth right? You have to really reflect of where you are and are you willing to do the work? Are you willing to do the work? Are you willing to do the work? And there's no guarantees. So I brought my goalie mask into this place where a guy named Ernie Higgins

made all the professional goalie masks. And I was in there and all of a sudden Ernie's son comes in, Neil, and says, Jimmy, where are you going to school? And I said, you know, Neil, I don't know. He goes, well, I just got my first coaching job. So Neil was an all-American goalie out of Boston College. He just finished playing in the pros

in his first coaching job, right? And he says, hey, I'd love to have you come join me. I said, where's that? He said, Massasoit Community College. It's in Brockton. I said to him, it's not even safe there. They practice like at five o'clock in the morning. I don't think you have enough jerseys for everybody. And he looks at me and he says, listen, if you don't think this is the best opportunity of your life, I don't even want

you to come. So I went home and I reflected. I said, well, where am I gonna go? And then I changed my mindset, which is something that was really valuable and it really helped me. And I said, I'm gonna have an all-American goalie who just finished the pros coach and mentor me. He will never be down at this level ever again. This is an incredible opportunity.

So I went there with a different mindset. All of a sudden I grew seven inches. We won a national junior college championship and at that last game before the game started, Neil come up to me says, well Jimmy, the news and bad news. I go, what's the good news? He goes, there's two scouts in the stands. One's from Providence College and one's from Boston University. And he said, you know, if you play well, you've got a chance. So I had like the game of my life. I think there was five people in the stands. Three of them were my family members, right? Two of them were scouts. And that's when Jack Parker offered me a full scholarship

to Boston University. But Jules, it doesn't get easier because he offered it, but the problem was he had already given it away. And this kid, Mark Holden from the area, had a choice to go to Brown or to go to BU. If he went to Brown, I would go to BU. And so when Jack said that to me, I said, I don't care if he comes.

And he started laughing. He goes, no, Jimmy, that's not how it works. Yeah. Right? And the innocent part about that was, what do I care? My dreams are I want to play in the Olympics. I want to be a pro. I got to be better than everybody.

It doesn't matter. Yeah. And if I compete, I compete. You can't decide you're not going to compete. And so Holden decided to go to Brown and he didn't do it because it was an Ivy League school. He did it because BU had an all-American goalie that was only a sophomore.

And so he figured he'd play quicker. And so that was an opportunity. And so in life, you have to make the best of the opportunities. So I remember going into BU. I'd never been in the city. I'd never seen a trolley, my poor mother brings me in, I'm scared shitless, right?

I get there the first day and I meet one of my teammates. His name is John Bethel, he's from Point Claire, Quebec or someplace, right? And John goes, hey Jimmy, nice to meet you. He goes, welcome to the team. I said, thanks John. He goes, where did you go to school? I said, Massasoit. He goes, where did you go to school? I said, Massasoit.

He goes, is that a private prep school in Connecticut? And I said, no. He goes, is it a junior aid team in Canada? I said, nope, it's a community college. And the point was, you don't go to Boston University out of Massasoit Community College. It just doesn't happen. But the point was, and I think you can relate to this,

is I tell people when I speak to them, is every year you have to make your team and earn your position. Every year. And if you have that mentality and you don't use hope, because I tell people hope is not a strategy, right? Preparation is a strategy. Being a little smarter, a little better

than you were the day before. So all of a sudden the All-American goalie from BU loses his first game, second game, third game, and before you know it they put me in and I just never look back. But timing isn't big, opportunity, having someone believing you, but putting the work in I think is a really big thing.

That's everything. I mean I'm a Juco guy. I went to Juco for a year, and then went to Kent State, and I can fully relate to that. Your mentality when that scout came in, or when, who was it, the all-American, what was his name, the coach at Juco?i Juco Neil Higgins is that when you first? found out about your

Underdog versus the winning underdog because you said it was really funny is you have a choice when you have these dreams, right? So as a young boy had three drinks. Yeah, really simple I wanted to get a full scholarship go to college because I wasn't going to college otherwise Yeah, I wanted to play the full scholarship, go to college, because I wasn't going to college otherwise. I wanted to play the Olympics and represent our country, and I wanted to play in the National Hockey League. And there's a saying I use, if your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough.

Yeah. Right? And so- If your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough. It's fucking, yeah, some sayings in this, baby. Love it. Tag them up, baby. But the real meaning is,

I don't look at personal sacrifice as something I did. I look at it as an opportunity that somebody gave me. So when my mother had to convince my father to put me into hockey, and I'm one of eight and spend that money, I didn't have any personal sacrifice. She did and my father did and the people there. When I look at community and all those people

who gave me rides and I went there, didn't even know you needed equipment and people never made you feel embarrassed. All of a sudden they gave you some skates and they brought you this and they brought you there. And then, so what happens to me is one of the tools that I try to use is I didn't have the courage to let people down. People who believed in me, I felt that I used that as a tool.

So when someone says to you, you can't, what are you gonna do, just say, well, Jules said I can't do it, I guess I can't do it. We'll say, well, F him, right? I will do it. And how are you gonna do it. We'll say, well, F him, right? I will do it. And how are you gonna do it? And that's why failure isn't fatal, but being afraid to is.

And when you all of a sudden reach a level in the sport where you're not as good as people think you are, that's pressure, man. That's pressure. That's pressure, because you can't be a winning underdog anymore. You can't you you know, it's like that Favorite poem the man in the mirror. I don't know if you've ever read that one But the net net is you can fool everybody else in the whole world

But when you look at yourself in the mirror, you can't fool yourself, right? No, and so you know When you're done That's when I felt it. You just know when you're done, right? When you're athletic, perform, I mean, that brings me back to when you throw on the film and you don't recognize that guy. And like you said, that's the real pressure because you've already set a standard of what you've performed for the last. Then you have to really, what I call, when I wrote my first business book,

there's a thing called managing ego and conflict, right? Your ego is what got you there, but you have to be able to manage that, right? And so when you get to that point, is what are you doing it for? Are you doing it for the adulation? Or are you doing it because you're the best professional at that position?

As an athlete, when you play professionally, you're going to feel pressure no matter where you are in your career. When you're a young guy trying to make the team, trying to earn a role, trying to earn a role, you're a superstar, you're trying to stay that, you did that. But when you said, when people say you can play and you eventually can't, that's when you start feeling the pressure, in a paraphrase. I remember that. It just jumps right out at you. It's not even, it's an aha moment.

No, it's just one of those, but that's one of the, like you said, because your ego, over the years, that's like the biggest thing you have to swallow is when you can't go out and do what you do. Well, when you can't use it as a tool, and it becomes really more, you know, like, I don't know, I had back surgery and I used to play golf really well,

and now it's hard to play, and I say, Jesus Christ, I'm not as good as I used to be because I'm not as young as I used to be. I'm not, you know, you are what you I'm not as young as I used to be. You are what you are. It's a different chapter. And you wanna put the work in. You gotta reinvent yourself. Yeah, but even that point in my career,

I was putting in so much work. The older you get, you gotta work harder and harder and harder, because like you said, you gotta continue evolving, reinvent yourself every year and when You can't and you plateau that means you're done. Well, I think is learned you I think what's interesting with a Belichick and a Brooks is They knew if that was a fuel that was gonna help you or hurt you and knew how to play that cart on you Oh, he played it on me all the contract negotiations that team friendly deal. I'm the worst guy.

Now Herb, what's the difference between Herb and your college coach Parker? Parker was an incredible competitor and he knew how to do things a certain way. And I'm sure he evolved over time, but Brooks Brooks created the future. You know, he, he saw things before they happened, you know, he he saw things before they Happened, you know, yeah Real deal. He is so organized brooks was so organized timing and you know, um What we did was not a miracle

It was hard work. Yeah But the reason why we won was because we executed the game plan flawlessly. And that means certain people have to step up, there's certain timing. We had a guy who just recently, a teammate recently passed away, Mark Wells, right? He was on the team, not on the team. They brought him back, but her brought him back to play against one player. And Mark was incredible at that game, at that one player. And he was incredible at that game at that one player. Yeah. You know, and that's the vision that he had, you know, when O'Callaghan got hurt and he was half the guy he could be,

he was such an important ingredient in the locker room that he had to be there. Yeah, you can't mess the Feng Shui of the team up. Well, but you wanted to, but when you go there, here you have her who could really make the general manager really happy by getting one of his kids friends in and do politically correct thing. But that herb didn't care about that. There's no popularity in leadership, right? No, there's no there's no loyalty and leadership. People look at loyalty as though people aren't being loyal. I would challenge that, you know,

your old coach Belichick was incredibly loyal to you, do anything for you, but it never felt like that. Yeah, because you knew the winning was the number one loyalty. Well, it's his job. It's his job. That's his job. Can you tell us a story with the shamrocks on your mask? Irish Catholic, is it just that? It was good luck charm. The shamrock was my good luck charm. And so Jerry Cheever's from the Bruins, he used to take stitches and put them on his mask. And I said, well, I got to come up with something. Hell yeah. So it was the shamrocks.

That's the swag right there. That's the ego swag, baby. right there. That's the ego swag, baby. Back in the day there was no painting of the mask back then. But you know sometimes you have to give yourself something to be a winning underdog, right? And so remember when I told you that BC coach said you know you're a fine young man, you sit close to home. Yeah. Well, Boston University in the three years I was there played BC like 14 times. How we do? I personally played it 14 times. And after every game, there's a tradition in hockey that you go and you shake the other team's hands. And so Coach Zablaski was still there when I was there. And so I remember after every win, I'd go shake his hand and say,

thank God it wasn't good enough to go to your school. And one of them was a national title, BBC in the national title. Hell yeah. So it's that type of thing. It is, you know, who is it that's gonna help you when you don't feel like doing the work, you know? I remember when Bob Wolfe was my agent,

he'd have this couple, I forget what the picture's name was, but he'd have in his glove these sons of bitches are taking money out of my kid's mouth, and he'd look at it, get so angry, and he'd throw the ball harder, you know what I mean? There's always a little something that has to get you going, right? I used to put lily pads on my cleat for my daughter.

Her name's Lily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta have something. Well, look down and say, what's the purpose, right? What's the purpose. What's the purpose, yeah. We'll be right back after this quick break. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty,

and my latest interview is with Wiz Khalifa. The craziest part of my life, I can go from performing in front of 40,000 people to either being in a dressing room, being in a plane, or being back in a bed all by myself. He is a multi-planetary selling recording artist, mini mogul, and an actor. Which among the one, the only, which can make one? Did you feel like a big break was coming? I didn't know what that big break looked or felt like. But I knew that what I was doing was working.

The gang banging and the drug selling, that's not really for me. But the looking cool, the having girls and making music, I'm like, I like that part of it. How was that experience for you? Losing someone so close to you that you love. I am grateful that I was able to have like the last moments that I had and to be able to prepare for it

and it was something that I'm still dealing with. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Martha Stewart has been a household name for over four decades and still isn't done. Join iHeartMedia chairman and CEO Bob Pitman for a special episode of the hit podcast Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, as he interviews this icon in front of a live audience to celebrate her 100th book, Martha, the Cookbook,

100 Favorite Recipes with Lessons and Stories from My Kitchen. Did you ever think you were going to wind up writing 100 books? Yeah. You did? Yeah, it's just a minor goal. This intimate and wide-ranging conversation between friends

covers the pivotal decisions in Martha's career, the philosophy that has guided her, and the source of so much of her creative inspiration. They actually looked at the July issue that I had prototyped and they said, this is fabulous. What would you do next July? And I said, well, living is a limitless subject matter. Listen to math and magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarchi. And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season, we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them. We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact. We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from

legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective. And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom-made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go back to around February 22nd, 1980, and we like to go over pop culture,

what was going around in the world. Number one movie, Cruisin'. Which one is that? Al Pacino? Al Pacino, you see that, Jim? No. No? We were probably locked in, ready for the Soviets.

Number one song, crazy little thing called Love by Queen. No, that one. You a Queen fan? I'm a fan of all good music. Yeah, there you go. Me too, me too. Studio 54 had its closing party. Did you guys get to hit that after?

We've been there. You've been there? Oh yes! How was Studio 54? It's not a ditty party. So that was a fun time. Yeah, different. What was different about it? It was just probably like any place that goes on it was the thing to go, the thing to do. Yeah. Now, did you guys, who was the going out boys on the team? I'd rather keep that as a secret. Yeah, we'll keep that. Billy Joel's 52nd Street wins a Grammy for album of the year.

I love Billy Joel. More good music. What was your life like around this time in 1980? What was going on around this time? Do you have a girlfriend, wife? Just everything was about hockey? You know, you're so entrenched in trying to create something, be something,

that you're very structured back then. You have the Olympics, but once the Olympics, it was just crazy, trying to figure out who you are and what you're doing. That was a little more crazy time in the sports world in 1980 Super Bowl champions 1978 1980 Steelers Earl Campbell was the MVP that guy was a load Stanley Cup winners was the New York Islanders they go three in a row in this one for in a row Holy shit heart Memorial Trophy Wayne Gretzky. Yeah great one. You got any Gretzky stories, you know Gretzky at all

I know Wayne he I remember it by my second game in the NHL and playing with the Atlanta Flames. Yeah, and I've never even been to the rink and they get there and they have the Canadian National Anthem going on and I Don't even know the flag is I don't even know what the flag is. I don't know what ends my end. You know, it's the first time I've been in the building, I'm playing. And so I remember Wayne Atwood was pissed at me because, you know, I didn't look at the Canadian flag.

And I said, Wayne, I didn't know where it was. You know what I mean? The sport was a Canadian sport. Our win was not very well received. It wasn't entertaining yet, because there wasn't enough money to be entertainment. You couldn't talk to your teammates. It was really different. It's so nice to see the game change. Basically, now all sports are entertainment. Did Gretzky score on you?

I'm sure he has. I don't knowky score on you? I'm sure he has. I don't know how many times, but I'm sure he has. Is he the most electrifying guy that you played against, or who was someone that you were like, ah, it's going to be a fucking long night? There was a guy that nobody really knew. His name, Kent O'Nielsen, he played for the Flames. He's a sweet, he was just an incredible player. He could do anything that he really wanted to do.

Bossy was a great player. Giela Fleur was a great player. He had so many different players. The game was a really wide open game there. When Wayne played, he was very well protected. So that really helped our guy Mark Johnson was a great player but people got their names in the paper by beating people up from our team yeah I mean and so there was no safe thing and you know it's a big transition all of us had gone to college with college

degrees the you know the NHL wasn't used to that you know yeah so it was a big transitional time. How has the game then changed from the game now? Clutching, grabbing, and just the physicality that was done was different. In the past? Yeah, the equipment was so bad. You see goalies now let it hit you. You didn't let it hit you, it hurt.

Now they play to let it hit you. You didn't let it hit you, it hurt. You know what I mean? Now they play to have it hit them. You know what I mean? So much of the game for a goalie was angles, so they would miss the net. I remember when I first started, our coach was Jerry Chivas and he said, hey Jimmy, if that shot's coming high and it's at your shoulder and you're up by a couple,

get your shoulder out of the way. You could hurt. Who cares if you win five to three or five to four? Don't hurt yourself on that. It was crazy. So you used to take, that has to hurt, huh? It was a felt pad. A felt pad.

You could just dart it up after a game. Oh my God. Oh my God, that thing god. Those thing that thing flies Yeah, the pads that we had were made idea hide that it you know were 30 pounds the ones they have now Don't weigh five. No, they collapse. So they cover areas, you know, it took us a year to break them in You know, you have your teeth. Yeah, did you wear a mouth guard? How come every hockey guy? No, that has doesn't have teeth. Well because they weren't a goalie Did you wear mouth guard? How come every hockey guy know that doesn't have teeth? Well, because they wear the goalie. The goalie has the mask.

Yeah. I'm fucking... What was it like to see Ken Morrow go off and win four Stanley Cups? Kenny Morrow is probably my closest friend and the best guy in the world. He is a guy that is so humble. It's perfect. Yeah. So proud of him, you know. How come you guys were so close?

We just hit it off, you know what I mean? It just started when we played over in the World Championships in Moscow, and he's quiet, you know. Really just goes and gets his job done. Kind of really good guy. Before we move on, I read that there was a no beard, no facial hair rule.

So, you know, you always talk about Brooks and maybe how he's a little different. So Herb had this saying that said, you know, no beards on the team, except Kenny Morrill who had one before he got here. You know what I mean? And the reason being is, Kenny Morrill's beard wasn't just a grow up beard, it was who he was.

And so Herb had to figure out that if you make Kenny Morrill shave his beard, that was gonna do something to him other than let somebody grow a beard, right? So, yeah. Jackie, let's break down this Soviet. I love the way they help you out here. This, all this work behind the Soviet. I love the way they help you out here.

All this work behind the scenes. Geez, this is awesome. This is a team, baby. That's right. Well, listen, you're only as good as your team. Only as good as your team. That's right. The A team over here.

Do you want to get into these Soviets real quick? Let's set the stage for the Soviets. These guys were the most dominant guys in hockey at the time. Won four straight gold medals, 64, 68, 72, 76. They won all but three world championships since 1963. They'd won all 12 matchups with the US up until this point, led by goalie Trichyak, who is said to be the best goalie in the world. Other notable guys, Boris Mikhailov, the captain.

These guys were forced to be reckoned with, Mikhailov, the captain. These guys were, I mean, these guys were forced to be reckoned with the evil empire at the time. Jules, what a lot of people don't know now is when say the Olympics and you play the Soviet Union, right? You're playing just the Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union Red Army team was put together at Dynamo, it was the best communist players in the world that they took from every country. So you had people from Latvia, you had people all over the place. So now they get to represent their own countries

and compete against them. But they took the very best in all communist countries and made them part of this Red Army team. So what's your perception of this specific team when you guys sign or when you're going through all your hell week, all your prep, this is a team that everyone's gotta be. What are the guys thinking about this squad?

In any sport you're trying to be a professional at, you're Maya people that are really good. Yeah, got it down. And then you emulate, and for me, trying to emulate someone wasn't just one player because his skills wasn't good enough. You had to emulate people that had all these different skills and try to make them part of your own.

And so all of us are trying to make it to the national hockey, that's a goal. And these are stepping stones along the way. And so, like, people always ask us, you know, why did you play the Russians in Madison Square Garden two days before the Olympic Games? You get a little taste of them. Well, the reason is either you're preparing to win or compete, right? Our coach had never played, never coached against them.

Yeah. So he had to coach against them. We had never played against them. So he had a coach against them. We had never played against them. So we had to play against them. And so as badly as we got beat, there were things that we learned and some things that we could adjust to. So for me, right, playing the Russian team,

for one period playing against the Russians was playing like playing a whole game against someone else. So I changed my strategy. I broke it into three games of four or five minute periods. And after every period, I took all my equipment off, put it back on, and refocused. And then I started to really kind of get laser focus on parts of the game that I thought were really important.

First five minutes of a period is a goal. you don't want to give up a goal. You don't want to give up a goal after your team scores a goal and you certainly don't want to give up a goal in the last minute to take momentum away. So what I did is I broke this game into three separate games of four or five minute periods and had times the things to focus at and then my goal was don't live give up any goals in the third period yeah and you know as a goalie you can't win a game but you can lose one yeah and and I think how consistent a goalie plays not how many saves he makes but how consistent your team can rally

around and get used to you can't get used to a guy that's a quarterback that's gonna go incredible, but then the next game throw five interceptions. And so you have to know what you have. And so I really believe that what happened was we broke it down for, you know, if you look at a game and say, oh my God, I gotta play 60 minutes,

it's like, oh, that's hard. But if you say, hey, I get these little separate things and you can play through those, I gotta play 60 minutes. It's like, oh, that's hard. But if you say, hey, I get these little separate things and you can play through those, I think it's important. Little mini games. Well, look, when you guys came back from Atlanta game in the second half, that's exactly what you did. Yeah.

You broke it down into segments on, I can't give up a one, I gotta score one, we gotta make this, yeah, we got time left, you know? And so you became razor focused. Yeah, we got time left, you know, and so you became raised a focused Yeah, you focused on one play at a time because you know one big plays not gonna get you 24 points So if we all collectively focus on our job every single play, we're gonna give ourselves the best Possibility to win, you know, so you did you admire? Any of these players?

All of them. Specifically, who was one? Was it the... Tretyak. Tretyak. He set the whole different standard. You know, the way he worked, what he did, how he did things. Why?

What made him different? How did he work? He kept on reinventing the position. You know, we used to do a two-legged pad stack save and he figured out how to go over and do it with one leg and get up, you know. And the other thing that I don't think Kretiak gets a lot of credit for, when he was a young goalie and his team wasn't all that great, he won the games. But when he got older and the team was really good, he had to keep them in games until they felt like playing.

And that is really hard. When you look at goalies and you say, oh man, he made 35 saves and the other guy only had 12 shots on him. That has nothing to do it. I mean, to me, the way they evaluate goalies is obsolete, a shot on goal. I did this stat when I was younger.

I said, you know, when you have a really good high school team and they shoot a hundred shots on a goalie in a practice, they might only hit the net 30 times. When you have a great college team and they take a hundred shots on a goalie in a practice, they'll hit it maybe 80 times. When you play in the pros and they take 100 shots on a goalie in a practice, they'll hit it maybe 80 times. When you play in the pros and they have 100 shots, they hit it 100 times.

So when you have a goalie and he's out there and they're missing the net, it's because it's perfect positioning. Or they're passing the puck instead of shooting it where they should because they don't want to shoot. And those stats don't come up. And that's something's something that Tradiac I watched it and I noticed do you know what I mean? Yeah it's the hidden yardage it's like the Vince Wilfork of hockey this guy takes up a double team he's taking up 600 pounds every play so his linebackers can get free and make a tackle, but we don't get a stat for that. It's kind of like a goalie now

take us to a Olympic Village And when you guys are there are you guys packed up with your USA? Jackets on and like you guys go to the local fountain You see like is there's like the Russian hockey team over there and you like, looking at each other? Or did you guys ever cross paths? Our Olympic Village turned into a prison. There was nothing there any good. We lived in trailers.

So it was... Our trailer was myself, Arizioni, Billy Baker, and Phil Fricotto. We started the Olympics before the opening ceremonies, and we played every other day. There was absolutely no time for anything. The only thing we went and saw was Haydn. Oh, Eric Haydn beat me.

And he was just so great and stuff like that. So, no, there was no time. What about the centipede video game? I heard you had a little time for that. I loved that. You know, it's really funny, and maybe this has happened in your career, right? You've got some teammates who don't like it if you like other players on other teams because they're

on the other team, right? And to me, I just admire talent. Yeah. Right. And I didn't care who they played for because when it was time to play, it was time to beat them. It didn't matter who it was. And whether it was my brother, it didn't matter. You know, when you compete, it's time to compete, right? So we had, I forget how to pronounce his name, but we're playing center P, he wants a turn. And I say, okay, have a turn. And we kind of said, well, okay, I'll see you tomorrow.

And I had won the game. And so I said, you know, I'm gonna do the same thing tomorrow or something like that to him. For who was that? one of the Soviets? Yeah He was one of their best youngest player to I forget what his name is Fetzi off Hey, it was Kuton to Anton to cut your leg off Makarov Makarov future Hall of Famer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's just a great player Did being a hockey player Trump being from different countries or did you guys like when you're in the Olympic Village?

You guys are you know USA this but if you saw a hockey guy, you're like, oh, it's a hockey It's one of our bros. We didn't really really see anything. You didn't see anything No, you always hear the crazy stories about Olympic Olympic the ones who have one game and stay there for two weeks I guess And they don't have her Brooks as a coach now one game and stay there for two weeks, I guess. I guess they have a little bit more time. You know what I mean? And they don't have her or Brooks as a coach. Now did you develop any relationships with these guys after this game?

Great story. So I'm coaching our kids and I'm in Reinham, Mass. And I walk in and the guy who's running. What year is this? Oh, let's see. Got married in 86 probably early 90s. Early 90s. Yep. And so the guy who runs the snack bar is a Russian. His name is Vladimir. So he was great. So I go in and Vladimir says, hey Jimmy, how you

doing? I said, good. Vladimir goes, hey, you're not the only gold medalist in here today. I said, whoa, that's great. Who else? And so he introduced me to Vladimir Luchenko, who's a five time, I mean, he's the Bobby Orr of their defensemen over there. And so Vlad and I became like incredible friends. We coached together for like over 12 years. I helped him get the head coaching job for Europe for 12 years. I helped him get the head coaching job for Europe for the Rangers and

and I learned so much about his life, right? Yeah. So I remember one day we're gonna walk our dogs, right? And so I meet him over his house, right? So I have this Wimeranter, right? And you know, Hudson was like a show dog. He won Westminster. I mean, he's a stud of a hunting dog, right? So Vladimir shows up, he's a little Yorkie. You know? And so, you know, back then they kind of arranged marriages. So Vladimir's wife was a ballerina. And you know, the Russians thought was,

well, you hitch up a, you know, a big strong guy with a ballerina, you're gonna produce a really great athlete. So I go to Vlad, I go Vlad, you have any kids? He goes yes. I go what? Two daughters.

I go, well they must be good looking. He goes no. So he had a heavyset daughter. So anyway we became incredible friends and he told me a story one time. So I said, Vladimir, you know, you're one of the youngest guys on the Russian Red Army team. He goes, yeah. I said, did you ever get new equipment? He says, yeah. I said, was it brand new? He's, oh, no, we never got brand new equipment. I said, he goes, and he says, one day I got so excited. I get these new skates. I'm skating on the Baltic Sea,

and he's skating around. Also he starts falling in, falling in. And he's a big man, he's like 6'3", right? Big strong guy. I said, he goes, I'm swimming, finally he said, I'm gonna give up, I'm gonna drown. And he said, he's in four feet of water. He's a hockey guy going on that thin ice, man.

I see that as a California kid, I see that ice. It's crazy. Yeah, but he was so great. We would play like men's league game. I'd be a defenseman with him. We play together every Christmas. We still stay in touch. Awesome.

Yeah, and you know, their way of life was being a hockey player was the best but it wasn't easy Yeah, no, definitely not. I mean shit you don't score a goal. You get your hand chopped off Let's jump into the team USA Jackie. Just a real quick follow-up. You had a dog win Westminster dog show? Yeah. Wow Can you tell us about that a little bit more? Well Hudson? He's no longer with us. He has's passed away but he was the most bred Weimer out in the country he had won Oocan-Oobie won best of breed and for Weimer and Westminster. What a stud. Did you walk him out there? Oh no no I didn't do that little trot.

I'd be afraid of falling down. That would have been a sight to see. Yeah. Jackie set the stage for Team USA. Let's talk about Team USA here. As we know, led by Herb Brooks, Craig Patrick, the assistant there, held tryouts famously, seen in the movie, summer of 1979 out in Colorado Springs. We talked a little bit earlier, nine guys, Minnesota, BU, four from BU, nine from Minnesota.

We had the East Coast first, the Midwest rivalry going on there. And the average age of these guys, 21 college kids, as opposed to the Russians, about 27. And these were the comeback kids, maybe trailed in six of seven Olympic games wins. The, led by Mike Rusione as the captain, and famous cone headline.

We know about those guys, 17 goals, 20 assists. That was Pavlovich, Harrington, and Schneider. We talk about, we always highlight the legends on here, but I mean, all these guys are, it's all legends. Ken Moore, Mark Johnson, Dave Silk, Jack O'Callaghan, Jim Craig. The list goes on and on, baby. So when you guys first go to tryouts, is it pretty clicked up?

Boston boys with the Boston boys, the fucking Midwesties are with the Midwesties. Absolutely. Absolutely? Yeah. When did it break? Well, one thing I think that is a misnomer to most people about how Herb picked this team, right?

the Everybody knows about the National Sports Festival now, right? And that's where they bring the best athletes from around the US and they get to showcase their talents for Hopefully being sponsored to go to the Olympics, right? Yeah. Well her Brooks created that and So what he did three years before the Olympics, he had a lot of these players play with four or five different teams like the mid-Atlantic, the East, the Midwest and that. And he saw all these players and he created a scouting of all coaches to watch certain players. And so he had been watching them for three years. And so he really knew what was going on for that. So Jules, maybe this has happened in your career or not, but Herb Brooks when he picked the initial 26 guys, he

picked guys he knew never would make the team, but people didn't understand why. It was to create a culture. Yeah. You know, Les OJ was not going to make the team, but he was going to help bridge the gap between the guys from the East and the guys from the West. Dave Delich wasn't going to make the team, but he was going to really show people a certain talent. Then you had Jackie Hughes, who made it so we could play against these NHL teams because he was tough. And, you know,

so every, there was an ingredient for everything that went on and so when you know, you hear that saying I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right players, it's because he had a plan. Yeah. And so in this day and age, especially when I'm speaking, is you see HR, they don't allow conflict to happen. And when you don't it doesn't go away.

It just stays and festers. Right. So you see this O'Callaghan fight versus McClanahan in the movie. Right. And if you really watch that clip you'll see how four or five times that was going to be stopped. But as it plays through now Brooks knows what he has to do where the problems are, right? Because if not, people are going to split up and team up. And this conflict will continue to go on.

So I really think conflict is a really important thing with every team, you know, to let it happen so that you can figure out what goes on. You get growth. Yes. That's how You get growth. Yes. That's how you get growth, because if someone festers on something and implodes, then there will be no communication,

and that's when you get a blown coverage in our sport. Now, why did Herb choose you? I think it's the winning underdog. That I don't think he knew how I would, I don't think he knew if I would re I don't think he knew if I would win in the biggest situations but he knew I wouldn't be nervous. You didn't take the test? Well that's a much more complicated thing. So here's the deal he has this take-home test it's pretty simple I'm living with the team

doctor Dr. Nagabots and my mother had just passed. And so I used to call home every night checking in with my father. And this one night I called home, he was crying. He still had my mother's clothes in the closet. He had just lost his job. And I felt really guilty about chasing my career and not helping out the family. So that night I decided if I don't take the test, I had made a promise to my mother. She said, listen, no matter what happens to me, if you have a chance to represent our country, you have to promise me you will and you won't turn pro. So I made that promise.

And so all of a sudden now I said, well, don't take this test Herb Brooks will send me home and then I'll just do whatever that does. But the brilliance of Herb was I live with a team doctor. The team doctor told Herb everything that was going on and all he cared about is could I do my job. And so in his own way he wanted people that would be more interested in the team than themself. And by showing that, you know, my team was my family, right? And so I think it really showed him a lot.

So he asked me a question, it was really interesting, two questions. He said, Jimmy, what can I do to help? And I said, well, my father needs a loan. So Herb worked to the people in Minneapolis to figure out how to get a loan. So that kind of made me feel better. And the second question he says, can you do your job? I said, I can do my job. Yeah.

Yeah, so taking that test is a little different. But Disney did ask if they could do it the way it did because it kind of Fit my character, you know, so I Didn't have a problem about so When you make the team you're finally on it Are you fucking you got to be pretty pumped and thinking your mom's upstairs watching this that had to been a special moment It's just a step, you know, it's just you know when you have goals it's just

you gotta hit one you gotta hit another one you gotta hit another one and you know uh like people always say about competition right like Janicek was competition I didn't care if the harder he worked the harder I worked because I had more goals. If I can't be better than him, then I can't get to where I need to go. So there was never any jealousy. It was, I just needed to play better. And always get better, right? Yeah, it's crazy when you- You know exactly what I'm talking about.

Without a doubt, when you're competing against another guy for something that you both want, the time that you think about those types of things where people say, oh, are you jealous? That could be time used to make your craft better. Shit happens, right? If somebody's better, they're better. You know it, they know it, right?

And I would happen to think, whether it's you or me, there was a way to make a save when you look at the guy, like, is that the best you got? And it pissed him off. You did the same thing going around, like come on man, you can't cover me. I mean Larry Bird was the absolute best trash talker in the whole world, but he did that because he had to

back it up, so that was the fuel that he needed to do. It doesn't matter what you have to put in the tank to get that stuff, right? But when you know you don't have that in the tank anymore, that's when it's really, really hard. That's when it sucks. Yeah, that's when it really sucks. So who's the team asshole?

Me. You? Well goalies are different, you know? I mean, it's like, you're not on the bench, you're not out on a line, you're there. You're the coach on the ice and trying to make each one of these guys a little better. And you know I think it was a time in my life that it was like it wasn't fun, you know. I just lost my mother, right? What are you gonna do?

And this is your vehicle. You gotta make the most of that time, right? Without a doubt. Who's the team prankster? Davy Christian. What is some of the shit he would do? Well, Rob McClanahan was a perfectionist, right? And so, you know, Christian brothers made the sticks. So Robby would have eight or nine sticks taped up, and they'd be absolutely perfect. And right down by the blade,

there'd be a little red little sticker or your plastic covering, right? so Davey would take that off take a hacksaw and saw it so it wouldn't quite break if you might have leaned on it but if you went to shoot it it would break right and so Robbie was so particular about his thing so all of a sudden Robbie goes out goes to shoot stick break pissed off and goes another one pissed off and then he goes, another one, pissed off. And then he finds out that Dave, Davey had done that. And so we're in Colorado Springs at the Broadmoor.

And you know, our travels are tough. We've got tons of game. And so all of a sudden, you know, Brooks is coming in a little bit late and Davey, Christian and Pavlich find that the figure skaters have their tutus, right? And so Davey Christian gets in this tutu, right? With Pavlich and Herb was talking about forechecking, right?

So Davey cut a Christian Brothers stick, taped it on another one, another one. So he had a stick that reached from about here to the corner, right? So he's out there, the herb comes out, and he just couldn't do anything but laugh, but that's kind of who Davey was. God, you need a little of that though.

Especially with that environment. We always had our guy, the Matt Lights of the World, that would do a fucking prank that all the boys could just laugh and you know, you guys are getting yelled at sweating together you're bleeding together man I did a prank on this one kid who would you know come in in our day you you'd breaking your goalie or your skates they were really hard to break in so you would you would put steam in them and

then you tie them up as tight as you could and there was nothing more painful than what we call lace bite you know, all of a sudden you tie a skate and you get lace bites like, oh my God, it was so painful. So there's this one kid, Rory, and he was like helping the equipment manager. And he was a real fan, and I shouldn't have done this, but I did. He goes, Jimmy, anything I can do for you? I said, yeah. I go, Rory, I've got these new skates.

I need a bucket of steam He goes well, where did I get that? I go you ever see the Zamboni when they come out all that steam because you get out me you capture that steam and you Bring it back So three hours later he comes back. I can't I can't get your bucket of steam. I got a very I know I know. Oh, Rory. Roar. Now, before we jump into the game,

we have to hit one thing. What was up with Coach Herb's style? Like, he was pretty fashionable. Yeah. Like, did the boys talk about that? No, you know, you had so many guys who had him for so long, and other guys who, you know,

loved Parker, you know, so now. Because I remember when Bill once tried to put on one of those old, like, those old hats. The fedora? Yeah. He put one of those on while we were traveling. I mean, and I was in a certain bus where he wasn't on the whole fucking bus this time. I'm like, what the fuck's Bill doing with this thing on? It was 1922, bro. get out of here. Oh my gosh

What's the Mattis Herb's ever been at you I Don't know Didn't really have that type of relationship. He was he was more like a father figure to me. Yeah Gole's probably different than the boy, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Goalie's probably different than the boy. You know what I mean? Like you said, you're another coach. I'm not on the bench, right? I mean, I had such a relationship with him

that if there was a guy in the left face-off circle that I knew couldn't want to face off, I'd go, herp, herp, change him. You know what I mean? That type of thing. And I used to stand on the front of the bus in the well and just talk to him. All the time. And it was never to gain anything.

I mean, your goalie, you're either the better one or you're not the better one. It is what it is. But I always liked to pick his mind on what he was doing. You liked Herb. Yeah, a lot. Not the whole team liked him. No. But you know what's interesting?

When Herb passed and we were all at his funeral, if you said to one of the players who was Herb's favorite, they would have said themselves said to one of the players who was Herb's favorite, they would have said themself, everyone. So that's the kind of influence he did have on them. That's awesome. That's awesome. Jackie, let's get into the game lead up.

We'll lead up to this game we got. Look at the homework here, I tell you, I am impressed. Come on, baby. Games of names, Nudhouse. Let's go, baby. I love it, Nudhouse. Let's go baby. I love it though. We all know about the legendary tie with Norway and the Herbys that came after those

that is part of the lead up to this game. I still get shutters every time I hear goal line because my coach made us run Herbys or skate Herbys. You know what people don't understand is everybody thinks after that game he was punishing the players. He wasn't. He was developing the assistant coach. So watch it again and you'll see how difficult it is.

Craig Patrick was the nicest guy in the world but he always wanted to be one of the guys because he had just finished playing. And if you watch that, he has the hardest time and so Brooks is really developing the assistant coach. And he's doing it through the players, which hurts the assistant coach the hardest because he's so close to him.

Got to callous him. Yeah, so he's developing. Yeah. And the thing that's kind of amazing about Herb is when we were playing, there was no full-time goalie coaches. But Herb made Warren Stral was no full-time goalie coaches but Herb made Warren Strahlo a full-time goalie coach. If Warren Strahlo didn't have Herb Brooks he would have been a guy that never left the U, showed up part-time. Warren Strahlo was a pioneer and now they have an award after him in

the NHL as one of the best goalie coach. So now that position from a guy who saw the need of that has gone. Craig Patrick's is in the Hall of Fame for a general manager. Yeah. So he developed all of us to this different thing. And it's it's really amazing. And that's why I'm such a fan of her Brooks. That's incredible. Can I just take a moment to give some love to Craig Patrick? I'm a huge Penguins fan. He drafted Yarmir Yager, Evgeny Malk,

and Sidney Crosby, and Mark Ander-Flurry. Most of those guys are still playing. Actually, all those guys are still playing to this day. Craig Patrick is just the nicest man, and the Lester Patrick award is from his family and stuff like that. But coaches used to say, I skated,

I bagged our team just like you guys were there. And I'd look at them like you don't even know what's going on. You don't even know what happened there. Well that was my coach. Shout out Coach Hazelton. You know what's really interesting that most people don't know is Buzz Snyder, Jack O'Callaghan and I didn't even play that game. And so we were watching this game and when it ended he skated everybody and we tried

to go put our equipment on and Herb wouldn't let us. So we didn't skate that game. Wow. Then there was the famous 10-3 beat down at MSG right before the boys headed to Lake Placid. The team USA was seeded seventh out of 12 teams in pool play. We were in the blue division. Russia was in the red division. Of course. Of course, very fitting in group play. The tie was Sweden.

Two to two was big gave, you know, kind of galvanized the fans, gave a little hope that this team's got some juice. Then the upset of Czechoslovakia, seven to three. Norway beat down five, one. Romania, seven to two win. And then beat West Germany, four to two. That was the US. Then over the Soviets were just putting up goals, man.

16-nothing beat Japan. 17-four beat the Netherlands. Poland, eight to one. Finland, four to two. Canada, six to four. And then a telling stat just to kind of show the dominance of the Soviets at this time in their matchups with the US. USSR had won 12 matchups from 1960 to 1980, that was every time they faced the US, with

a gold differential of 117 to 26. So it was a little bit of a disparity there. Geez. But not tonight. Not tonight. Not tonight, boys. Um, I we already kind of went over it, but seeing the Russians in that 10-3 defeat before the games was a great thing for the team because you got to have a practice rep coaching against them, playing against them, them feeling their speed feeling their style You know if you ever played golf would you ever play the golf tournament without having a practice round?

Yeah, no, you'd have to go see the golf course. Yeah, it's kind of like the Giants when they you know Unfortunately, they beat you know the Patriots beat them in 2007 week 17 I bet you that game helped them so much just to feel What it was like playing against them, getting coaching against them. So you know it's kind of interesting, Patriots fan, right? So now you got Randy Moss and you got Tom. Tom never took anything other than what was available. But sometimes when you have Randy Moss you say,

F it, I'm gonna show him I can do that, right? And so that's, to me, that's an example of when he didn't manage ego and conflict, right? I'll show you, and Randy will show you, that we can do this, right? Without a doubt. And versus spreading out, because now that's what he was so famous about, right? Now what was the game plan after playing them, losing to them?

Well, we knew we could skate with them, right? You knew you could skate with them? When we played them at Madison Square Garden, we should have went out there with a notepad and pencil and asked them to have an autograph, right? We were in that much awe, right? Yeah. I remember coach saying to me, Jimmy, just go in this game. It doesn't mean anything. You're not going to play the whole game.

And so we're playing the game. And I think it's like in the second period. And Karlmach comes down. And instead of just pushing in the net, he wants to embarrass me even more. He goes around the net. He's going to stuff it. I get up really quickly.

And I caught him with my stick right here and cut him open, even though he put it in. Next thing you know, the whole Russian bench going, it means they're gonna shoot at my head. Herb goes, come on Jimmy, you're out. So I didn't play, I think I played a period and a half of that game. Need old Jimmy for the real ones.

Shout out Herb for the foresight on that one. Yeah, they would have shot at your head. I mean, they were so good. It's crazy now How was her pregame like was he a speech guy or did he just give you keys? Did he rile you guys up? Never swore. Yeah, right Extremely prepared right? I mean in every detail is incredible But the the speech that you hear in the movie Miracle is basically what he did and he was our confidence. You know what I mean? They're ripe, they're ready to be beaten, you guys

have earned this, you know all the things. But he never said you're gonna win so it's really interesting in words when you pay attention to what actually is being said. There is a way to beat this team. You guys have the ability, you know what I mean? But you're not gonna just do this and beat them. You gotta execute. You gotta do it. Yeah. Wait, so the movie speech is actually fairly close?

Very close, yes. Wow, that's badass. Jage, let's get in the game. Let's go to Lake Placid here for this game, baby. We gotta start with who's on the call here. Legendary Al Michaels. Al Michaels, young Al. Young Al Dryden. Michaels, young Al.

Man, young Al Michael back when he had the fro. I mean, he was about 12 years old in this one, but legendary. This is at Olympic Center. Eighty six hundred. I think the the ticket price was like sixty five bucks packed to the gills. Soviets get on the board first. Like five hundred.

That's probably like four hundred bucks now. You think about it. Sixty five then. Eighty for like 500, that's probably like 400 bucks now. You think about it, 65 then, 80, probably like 300. It's gotta be something crazy. They say they were selling for three times as much outside. Yeah. So it's probably a thousand dollar ticket. Unreal.

So what was the atmosphere like when you took the, like was it just insane? Well, first of all, you gotta think the way communication that everybody just listened to this podcast says was even available I mean you didn't even have cell phones on right? So think about it. You don't even have a cell phone. So Telegrams are what's it? So our from our locker room 5 to the going in is Plasted from people who are selling sending telegraph Telegrams to us.

And they're like incredibly motivating, right? Beat those call me bastards, you know what I mean? It's the one I remember the most, you know what I mean? I mean, this was much more than a hockey game. And I remember this, I was always the first one out. And so as you're walking, and I'm about to step on the ice, and I just look up and go, man, this is crazy.

You know what I mean? To have that much love from the Americans and that much hate for the Russians from the other people that were rooting for us. So you have the whole world rooting for us. So it was pretty amazing. Back to this first period. The Soviets strike first with a Krutov goal, then buzz ties it up for the Americans.

Makarov goal or trading goals here down to one the Americans are then Mark Johnson that awesome goal right at the buzzer going into the first break two to two. Can you walk us through that? Yeah, it was so you know, it's really kind of interesting about this is. Tretjik's goal that he gives up from Buzzy is a bad goal. I mean, it's a slap shot from the blue line off the angle, right? Basically. Yeah, so that's a bad goal. So that's that's kind of

good. And then, you know, you figure out you play it till it's over. So I remember the pucks coming back, and I'm yelling the Kenny Morrill, I'm counting down Kenny, you got figure out, you play it till it's over. So I remember the puck's coming back and I'm yelling to Kenny Moore, I'm counting down. Kenny, you got 20 seconds, you got 19 seconds. And so it's like, okay, so every little detail, not like, okay, good, we're only down two to one. It's not, nothing was over. And so Mark Johnson playing that through the end

and the sloppiness of the rebound of Tretyak, the people who even let him shoot it. I mean, there's a lot of things that becomes very positive for us, right? Yeah. And then at the end of the period, they pulled Tretyak. Right? Now, what are you thinking when they pulled Tretyak?

Well, he gives up two bad goals. They've got the second goal, he, Mishkin, has just beat the NHL, all started sixth and all. I think at the end ofie, Mishkin, has just beat the NHL All-Star six to nothing. I think at the end of the game we had 12 shots on goal. You could have put a goalie, could have put a Pee-wee goalie in there. You know what I mean? And what's happening now is Tretyak isn't the future. He was. He's kind of in the past. A lot of these players now, they have a different coach. And if you look at him, he coaches from the front

of the bench, not the back of the bench. And they're thinking, you know, I don't need you anymore, Trechak, and I'm going to show you I don't need you. And the rest of your players, we got, you got so many people ready to come take your jobs, you don't have any idea. And so anybody can beat the United States. So that was an internal battle you think?

That was a power struggle. Wow. How did you take that last second goal like into intermission? Was that go- Well it's better to be tied two to two than be down two to one. Who knows if you're ever gonna get another goal.

You know the line Berks gives in the movie is you score a goal and check it. Keep it. Keep the puck, you might not get another one. Was there a moment for you where you felt like, okay we can actually win this game? Well see it's Keep the puck. You might not get another one. Yeah. Was there a moment for you where you felt like, OK, we can actually win this game? Well, see, as a goalie, you don't think about winning the game. You think about keeping them in the game, right? Just keeping them close enough that

you don't want to get ahead of them and piss them off. Right. It's like a nice balance here. Tied where they think they're going to be in the third period and just go do what they always do. of them and piss them off right he kind of it's like a there's a nice balance here you know tied where they think they're going to be in the third period just go do what they always do good now the clock so when you're a great team the amount of time in a game works in your advantage for a really long time until it doesn't right yeah? Because then it shifts. Now what happens is, you know, you get late in the third period, right?

You don't have that much time like you did before, right? Now what happens, everything starts to equal up because now you got to shift against the shift. And you have a coach and a team that is not afraid of you. That's gonna keep rolling out all four lines. This guy cuts down his bench, he goes from 20 players to his best 10, they don't come off the ice,

you've got 10 passengers now, you don't have a team. Herb's rolling these guys through, everybody's playing, everybody's involved, and they're not used to this, because the best condition team in the world at that time was the United States. Let's go. And Herb when he said he's not looking for the best plays looking for the right play, every one of us knew how to win. Everyone had won a national championship and when you win a Super

Bowl or anything big you have to be part of something bigger than yourself. Without a doubt. You have to put your ego checkin' at the door. It doesn't matter who it is. Whatever your role is, be thankful and just do it, right? Without a doubt, because if you're fortunate enough to win something at the highest level, you get humbled and you realize how many things had to happen for you to do that.

Now what was Herb like in between the periods? He was great, you know what I mean? So some coaches can make you nervous. How many times have you heard, well our best players didn't play as good as their best players. How about your coaching wasn't as good as their coaching? And so Herb, he was our confidence. our confidence, you know, he believed in us.

Yeah. Which gave us the opportunity to do, you know, some really good things. See, the other thing that's kind of interesting, right, in the U.S., so you watch a Canadian type game, if a player has a chance to shoot it, they just shoot it, right? So the number of shots on goal, it's as many times as a guy can shoot the puck. The Russians never shot the puck unless they thought they could score. So you might play a game against the Russians and they might score seven goals

and they might've only had 21 shots, right? But every 21 shots was because they really thought they could score. So it was a totally different mentality. So when you look at the number of shots that they had on goal, it wasn't to just shoot. It wasn't the North American style of play where they just say, well, we lost,

but we outshot them by this, not even the same game. Calculated everything. Now, what's up with you and when you know, when Scout was at the game, there's three people in the crowd, you're your parents and two Scouts, you played your best game. This game, you played your best game. National Championship, you played your best game.

Well, you ought to know about that. Well, I know what I did. What makes you so good? Well, it's just, I think I just love that type of pressure. You know, you ask why do you think Herb picked you? Because that's kind of what it was. You know what I mean? It's just, I get ready three days before it, maybe three weeks before it. By the time the game comes, I've already played it so many times that...

That's what it is. I don't have to worry. I visualize, I never visualize losing. Never, never. My mother used to tell my brother, she says stay away from him, it's two days before a game. You know what I mean? But when I got to the room, it's like, I'm ready to go. That's exactly, that's what I say.

I always played really, I played my best games in the biggest moments because I treated those moments like they were all the other moments but also it was my preparation. Preparation, yeah. You know, it was the work I put in before the game, the visualization of before the game, the going over the tendency reports

of what their coverages were on third and three, third and six, third and 10 plus, knowing the play call before it even came in because I was so dialed into my game plan that by the time I ran it, it was deja vu. Yeah, well, and I remember telling you when I went to practice and I'd watch you do your steps and I'd watch you count them

and I'd watch how high you'd lift your leg to fool a guy. And so nobody else in the sidelines even knowing what goes on unless if you can see it you can be it. That's what I always tell something right? Without a doubt. Yeah and so the part that was really interesting is you know I knew if a left wing came down off the left side that he was going to shoot across his body 86% of the time right and that I that I didn't guess, but I was better prepared. Then I learned how to break my body down

into four separate parts, right? So that this side would only move or this side would only move or this bottom would only move, but I would really, really be in balance. Yeah. Wow. Now, how was the crowd going in this,

during this whole game? What was the crowd energy like? Third period, third period. I didn't how was the crowd going in this? This during this whole game, what was the crowd energy like? Third period, third period. I didn't listen to the crowd. You see, I never hear. I never heard a word. Yeah, just like just. But I knew that I wanted them to shoot more on me.

I didn't want not them to shoot on me. You know what I mean? I wanted more shots. Why? You wanted to make more blocks. I want to be in the game. I don't want to be standing there and say, oh, my god, you know, come on. Keep it going. Just keep going Come on 39 shots. That's in the game. Yeah speaking of more shots the second period was was like 16 to 3 the Russians outshot us and We got a goal that puts them back ahead. That's the

That's the Maltzau goal. Yeah, he faked me out about four times before he decided to put it in. But I remember I was so pissed off at Billy Baker because he's lugging it up the side and he should have got the puck in and he didn't. They stole it. They caught him out of a break. I had no time to get set. This guy's coming at me a million miles an hour. In the net.

God darn it. I'm picking that in there. I'm going to pick you. You have short memory. You just got to get back into it. Yeah, I always tell people how would you like a job that every time you made a mistake, right? A big red light went on. They took your mistake and put it up on the scoreboard.

They said who scored the goal, who helped them score the goal, what time they scored the goal, and if you missed it, they showed it again on the Jumbotron, right? So you got to have a different skin. You got it. Life of a goalie. Life of a goalie. Which are very, you know goalies like kickers, like pitchers, they're always a little on their own. They're in their own world. You know what I mean? You just, you have to be a different kind of psychology makeup to be a goalie I bet. Oh yeah. I'm a Gemini. My wife likes one of me. Yeah

So am I too Speak for yourself brother good walk us through the third period Johnson game Mark Johnson ties it up Mark, John's just a great player. You know when you think about Hockey IQ or your football IQ his IQ was off the charts. You know what I mean? Just a little guy too. I mean not big you know, but just a fabulous player What he did is he performed you know, and that's why he was Magic Johnson before Magic Johnson was Magic Johnson That's what we always say to him. You know the real Magic Johnson is Mark Johnson. That's what we always say to him. You know, the real Magic Johnson is Mark Johnson. Oh, yeah Freaking mark. That's right, baby. Shout out

Now what about the go-ahead goal by Mike? Well, you know, it's really funny is a lot of people don't know the story But you know Mike had worked so hard all all all his career to get to this opportunity, right? And you know the threats of him being cut were really real. They're gonna bring in Neil Brydon's brother or somebody. And so here you have Buzzy Snyder, who his nickname was the Babbit Rabbit, because he was so fast, right?

But he couldn't go for a long time, right? So here in this game, and all of a sudden, you got Buzzy, the Babbit Rabbits, going around the rink like twice, he's out of gas, he's yelling left wing, left wing, and nobody's ready, Mike jumps out over the boards, comes into the play late, Pavlich is on his stick, and boom, it's a goal. Wow.

You know, I don't know if you're a fan of the Vikings, you know those things, but Destiny, you know, I really think that was Mike's destiny. Talk about, let's go seize our own opportunity. I see it, I'm out. That's kinda like when Wes would get knocked out over the middle, I'd be putting up my fucking chinstrap, going out there, and the guy would shake it off.

I'm like, woulda had my opportunity. Now, you guys are up. In the third period, you go up, you get the two unanswered. Last 10 minutes, what's going, like how are we feeling? What are we doing to keep ourselves mentally in the game? You were talking your first two minutes or your first five minutes of each period is huge, your last two minutes of each period. This is your last 10 minutes against the Soviets. What's the mindset going in this?

So it's really kind of interesting is when I started the game I would tie everything up to slow them down to give us a chance to get in. So if I had a chance to tie the puck up I would tie it up. The last ten minutes is I didn't tie that puck up at all. Kept it going, kept it going. Didn't want them to realize there's only 10 minutes left. Oh my God, there's seven minutes left. And so before you know it, they had guys on the ice doing two minute shifts, right?

And, and cause their egos, you know, I'm done this, we'll do this. I'm the guy, we're gonna stay out there. Almost like to me, what I was saying to you, and Brady, I want to throw it to Moss because I can't, right? Well, these guys are going to... And so the last 10 minutes of the game is you'll hear Brooks say, play your game. Well, I'm doing the same thing is keep it going, keep it going. If you ever watch at the end of this game, the clip of just before Al Michaels goes, do you believe in miracles? And that puck's going around, we got 10 seconds,

you notice that nobody ties that up, right? That's because I'm screaming, don't tie it up, don't tie it up, because they'll get a whistle, they'll get a face off, they'll get another guy on, and then now it's about executing, and they're in panic mode, right? So the really end of the game was a strategy

of don't tie the puck up, where the beginning of the game was of the game was a strategy of don't tie the puck up. Where the beginning of the game was slow the game down. Now do you practice this situation? Is that like something that for me? That's a feel. That's a feel. We practice formatted offense they call it. So whether a team's up or a team's down, how are you going to be getting defensive calls from them? Are you trying to eat the clock? Are you trying to score?

Like, that's a specific situation we used to practice. I was just wondering, do you guys? I don't think at that time, like, you know, I'll watch a game in the National Hockey League and someone said, well, you know, look at that. Look at that save they're going to make. And I'd say, well, he made that save because he didn't tie it up, you know, and he should have tied it up back there. So everything is situational.

So for me, I try to have high hockey IQ in the goal and say, do we want face-offs? Well, if you play lacrosse, right, and your sentiment is the best one in the thing, you wanna have face-offs because that's how you can outscore a goal, right? But if your guy can't take face-offs, then you don't want him, right?

Well, at the end of the game, we don't want them to know how much time it is, because you can feel that they're in panic mode. Their coach has lost the bench, the players are now gonna do what they wanna do, they don't have a rhythm to them, we got a nice rhythm going on. And I don't want us to know

that there's very little time left, you know what I mean? I wanted to run out on them before they know. That a hell, you keep the energy up. So last minute, you see it's the last minute. It's trickling down. You're probably getting more and more intense, more and more focused. When the clock hits zero, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

My mother. Yeah. It's badass. Yeah, I know. I saw it immediately. I turned. You can see that thing in the stands. Me looking for my father is because I wanted to show respect.

The opportunity that I was given was because of my mother. And so even though she wasn't there, she was there, right? And for my father not to give up after losing his spouse for that many years and to be there, and ABC had moved my father's seat, so he wasn't where he should have been. They moved him for television. I didn't know that. I thought he had a heart attack.

That game was pretty intense, you know what I mean? So I'm trying to find him, but no, immediately my mother. And you know what's funny, Jules, and honest to God truth, is I saw everybody in that moment who, you know, the first time I played with the Bears and the guy from the community who gave me rides, and I saw all these people that kind of like flashed through for this journey that I was fortunate enough to be on through their sacrifices.

That's what people don't realize. It takes a whole lot of people for, you know, every one of those guys that were on that ice. Everyone has a different situation, but there's a lot of people in those camps that, you know, your old coaches, your old equipment staff. That's pretty awesome that you thought about those people that helped you get to where you're at your mom I got to share this one story, right? We're going out. We're gonna be playing the Russians, right? And so you've got the Secret Service around and you get all these these New York State troopers, right and all of a sudden the state comes with a

Jimmy what you know, I'm sitting because I always had the first seat ready to go out, right? And all of a sudden the state comes and goes, hey, Jimmy. They go, what? I'm sitting, because I always had the first seat ready to go out, right? So he goes, listen, there's a guy out here, his name is Andy Feile, he says he's your goalie coach from BU, and he's got his daughter, they don't have a ticket. What do you want me to do?

I said, get him in. So this just before the game, but he drove all the way up from, you know, fucking crazy, Lynn Mass to be there. It sounds like someone from Lin Mass. Yeah. We'll just take our chances on it. We'll go up there. They'll get us in. That's Lin Mass. Jim's got us, baby.

Lin Lin, city of sin. You never come out the way you went in. Oh, Lin. Oh, my. We all know Lin. You've been in Boston. Now, what's the biggest misconception about this game? That our team wasn't as good as it was. I mean, you know, the Americans hadn't made the NHL yet. So there's a lot of really great players on that team.

Our team was a really good team. Yeah. Do you believe in the line, like there's a line in the movie, it's like tonight you're the greatest team in the world? He believed it. You know what I mean? And you know, if you go back and listen to some of the words, because I'm a word guy, you were meant to be here. This time is yours. You know and he was setting a mind set up for people to believe,

right? And you know I always tell people the impossible becomes possible when you believe. Right? And to me, you know, when I prepared for my work and I came up with that quote, it was because that's how I felt from this man. Yeah.

When we were down 28 to three, I was just continually saying you gotta believe. Well, you know what's so funny? My signature that I do, you gotta believe. Well you know what's so funny? My signature that I do, I write believe. Believe. But it was funny, we were watching this game, my family and I were over, my sister wants to have a party, they were over there.

And people now aren't paying attention to the game and I'm saying, you know, the Patriots, I'll play them, they just, everything went wrong. And so anyway, I leave, I say to my wife, I gotta get out wrong. Yeah. And so anyway, I'm I leave. I said to my wife, I got to go. I'm going home on the watch this game. This is still a game. Right. And so I remember calling my my son. Huge, huge fan, JD. Right.

And I said, JD, it is not over. They need to score in their first position. And, you know, kind of went over there. Drop a third down. And you know what I loved? And over there. Drop a third down. And you know what I loved, and this is the winning underdog, because you asked me to explain that.

When that prick that owns the place came down and started celebrating a little bit beforehand, it was like, come on guys, you can't let this guy do that. You know, you just can't let this guy do that, right? Without a doubt. I mean, there was a lot of people on those sidelines. So I gotta tell you a fun story. So Burj, right?

Burj. My son wants to meet Tom, right, in the absolute worst way, right? So we kinda get this thing arranged, and so I'm on the sidelines, and Burj come over, and he goes, and my son's right beside me, and he gets to go out and my son starts coming

he goes no no you can't go right so i go out in the middle i'm talking to tom feels good his whistle he's slipping around going back and forth come back and jadie's going what happened what just happened i go jadie i have no idea you know what i mean so i don't think my son's ever forgiven me for that oh tell him my parent I played on the team for 12 years, my parents never went on the field once. So, that's just how it was. You gotta be an Olympian or something

to get on that field. Crazy, right? Crazy. Now, locker room after the game, boys are having fun. What, are you guys drinking? Myself and Mark Johnson were just taking in because they have a drug test. So they always go to the person that's,

and in their mind I guess would be the high performing person. And so the guys are celebrating, we're sitting there, we're trying to drink beers and that's so we can take a leak. And so it was really funny. But you know what's interesting is when Herb got this coaching job,

you had the US hockey, and if you watched the movie, how they all questioned what Real X did, right? So when the game ends and we win, you know, you got the vice presidents in there, and we're on the phone with the president of the United States. And all these guys who doubted her at the beginning, who was a part of that committee, tried to come in.

Her was, get out. You wouldn't let them in. Hell yeah. I love that. Fucking well, he was right, man. He believed in it. He believed in the system. I mean, you guys still had another game.

So I'm sure it was hard to really, really celebrate, but once it was over and you guys finally got the gold after the next match, that relief, and all the grind that you did for six months, the 88 games or 60 games you guys played in three months, like, any time we won a Super Bowl, it was almost like the relief and like you're you're just so

yes, you're excited that you won, but the job was done. It's more of that. We got the job fucking done. And that's like and there's no more pressure for that year. So like that's when you feel that's like the happiness that I felt out of our championships were. The job's done, we got it done what what was Well, it was that Specifically, but there was such a whirlwind and we were in such a bubble. We really didn't know what was happening and then

Everything happened so quickly all of a sudden these guys you've been with forever. You'll never see again So would you you know, no teams the same every year, but you have a, you got a nucleus of the guys you're going to come back and see, you've got a contract, this is over, right? And you know, and now you're going to go to different teams with different expectations and you're going to be competing each other and not everybody is rooting for you. It'll never ever be the same. Never be the same?

Never. Never. Yeah, is there like a group chat between the guys now? Or like how much you say in touch? There is now. You know what's so funny is you didn't have permission to appreciate what you did because we weren't established in the National Hockey League. And I remember I'd go to every town

and every interview would be there. And I'd be sitting with Hall of Famers on the team and people would come up and ask for my autograph and I'd be sitting with Hall of Famers on the team and people would come up and ask for my autograph and I'd be so embarrassed that I would sign it and I would just give them back and then they'd get pissed that I didn't hand it to everybody else. I'm thinking I don't even want this you know what I mean? And so it was very very uncomfortable. I can only imagine and it was on tape so like who'd you call after the game? Because there was a two hour delay, right? Well, let me explain it for our fans. So this game was famously not broadcast live. It was broadcast

live to tables, the whole thing. So the game happened at 5 p.m. Eastern. It played on national television at 8 p.m. Eastern. So there's a three hour gap. So did you call anyone? Everybody who meant anything was there. Everyone who meant anything was there. Everyone who meant anyone is there. That's all that mattered. And you know what? I agree. I remember

after we won the gold medal, we were at Lake Placid. Have you ever been to Lake Placid? I haven't. It's a little teeny village. It's crazy. It's it's it's where you go to fulfill your dreams. Now, I am in there going there.

I mean, it's a cool place, right? So we have myself, Arizioni, Jim Lampley, Jim McKay, and we're walking down Main Street and it's snowing, and there's just, you know, people around you. So you're in the middle of snow, and you got this chant, USA, USA. now, do you know where that chant came from? No We're playing against finland in the olympic games

It's finland's winning two to one and two Part-time firefighters from lake blasset get in the game and it's quiet and the olympics haven't even started yet get in the game and it's quiet and the Olympics haven't even started yet and they they start the chant USA and so the chant USA was started by two firefighters from Lake Blossom. Fuck yeah let's go. That rocks. I can't even imagine. And now you think about the chant and you know how it's used and and you know to be have those guys that you remember agents buy flags, they give it to people now, they tell them where they're at, they know what camera it's gonna be on.

The flag that was draped around me came from a guy's house. He brought it from an addict, from where his father or something was in the war. You know what I mean? They didn't sell them there. So you see all these flags, this is patriotism. This is like... You know where that flag is now?

Yep. You still have it? Yep. That's awesome. You know what, I can't even imagine, like football, we don't get to ever represent our country. You know, they got the flag coming in, which if flag was going while I was playing in my prime,

I would have jumped over in the flag leagues just to try to get that just because of that chant You're getting to go out and compete for your country but the other part now the Olympics have changed because now you have professional athletes, which I The Olympics when we played the Russians, that's what they did They basically were professional, but they didn't have an option, right? So it isn't like they could come over and play. And then we could only represent. So guys that were on our team made a sacrifice not to turn pro to choose the Olympics.

None of these professional athletes have to do that anymore. Hey, listen, I'm going to wait a year before I go make all kinds of money because I'm going to play the Olympic games. And then they argue about whether they're going to wear the Nike swish because that's who's paying them and I'm not going to wear the Olympic thing. And I'm not going to stay in the village because that's not good enough for me. And I'll go if I get TV rights so that I can be a, you know, it's lost the meaning of what these games are. And you know, in a lot of the speeches I do, I'll show a photo of people, countries at the games. And they'll say, you know, the USSR here, USA is here, there might be another country there. And I'll tell people, look at that photo, what do you see? And you know,

a lot of people will think, well, these are Olympians preparing to win a gold medal. I go, no, some of their, and they're just happy to be there. Some of their are preparing to compete, but some of their are preparing to win. And it doesn't matter, it's life, it's really what it is, you know? Some people happen to say, I played in a Super Bowl who would be happy Would just playing in one?

You know what I mean? I mean that that's when we're trying to describe what a winning underdog is It'd be like are you kidding me? I had that opportunity and I didn't take full advantage of it That'd be crazy. And that's the discipline that Teams have that have great locker rooms have they don't let those players not get ready advantage of it, that'd be crazy. And that's the discipline that teams that have great locker rooms have. They don't let those players not get ready. Yeah. You know?

It's like, hey, you know, you better be ready. We might need you. Without a doubt, everyone's got a role. Yep. What's the after-match, Jacky? Yeah, put a bow on this game. Team USA won four to three. Jim saved 36 of 39 shots. Mark Johnson two goals. Mike

Arruzzione with the game winner. And then as we mentioned earlier, the US would go on to beat Finland for the gold medal. The whole system was, it's a whole, we could do a whole episode on how kind of confusing it is. Convoluted the whole tournament setup was Jim would finish as the tournament's top goalie, saving with a save percentage of point nine one six. Let's go, baby. The Soviet Union would go on to win the next two gold medals in eighty four and in eighty eight. Thirteen members of this team would go on to play in the NHL.

Jim played for the Flames of Bruins and the North Stars. Yeah, this one's iconic, baby. What's the best perk you got from being a gold medalist? Especially, I mean, the perks that you got from this, you guys defeated the Russian, you guys saved the Cold War. Like, this is this is a different kind of perk than like now. So we flew on Air Force One. That's how was that?

Oh, incredible. So. First of all, You know, we flew on Air Force One. That's funny. How was that? Whoa. Incredible. So, first of all, it's a political thing now to bring a team into the White House. Without a doubt. I went to twice. So it wasn't with us. So all of a sudden Herb's telling us, hey guys, you know, we're out celebrating. We're in blue Crestelor sweatsuits.

We haven't shaved in 13 days. Right? We've got nothing. Everything's packed. Right? And so Herb says, tomorrow morning 6.30 a.m. meet us, you know, at the, in the hotel. Right? And so one of the guys goes, what for? He goes, because the president of the United States and the first lady had invited you to the White House. Right? And we go, shit, what are we going to wear? Right? So we stayed up all night. We got there and all of a sudden And we go, shit, what are we going to wear?

So we stayed up all night, we get there and all of a sudden we get on this bus and this bus takes us to this little teeny airport in Saranac Lake and there's an airplane waiting for us but it's no ordinary airplane. It's Air Force One. So I get up and they put me in, I sit right in President Carter's seat where he sits there. And we take off and all of a sudden this marine

in perfect shape comes up to me and says, Mr. Craig? I go, yes. He goes, is there anything I can do for you? I said, there surely is. He goes, what's that? I said, I'd like to call home and tell my dad where I'm at. Now the cell phone, it hasn't even been invented.

I'm a wise ass from Boston. I don't think that's pretty funny. Next thing you know, walks up the aisle of Air Force One, has this great big box, and he says, what's your telephone number? So I tell him. Next thing he hears, eh, eh, eh, eh. Of course, the phone's busy.

My father's telling the whole world that his son and 19 other guys want a gold medal. So I go, oh darn, and the guy, the Marine says, oh, no worries. Next thing you hear is, Mr. Craig, this is a White House operator. Your son would like to speak to you. My dad goes, cut the shit.

You know, you never believed it. But, you know, that was that was a pretty cool thing. Wow. It's awesome. Is the food good? Yeah, because Carter said, hey, Jimmy, is there any special meal you can get for me? I said, yeah, lobsters. Let's go. From Boston, what do you get?

Span's right. If I get lobster. That is awesome. Coolest piece of memorabilia that you got from that? The flag, maybe the flag that you got? Flag is awesome. I have Trady X goalie stick that he played in. Wow. Which is really kind of cool, you know.

But I have the memories, that's the greatest thing I have. Without a doubt. Let I have the memories. That's the greatest thing I have. Without a doubt. Let's score the game. This has gotta be the greatest upset in the history of the sport. Not for me to say. I think it is.

For me it is. I mean, just because of the story, and it's probably, he doesn't wanna hear that because they probably thought they were the best team. But with the stakes, everything that was going on and the unfairness of the Russians getting to compete for fucking 30 years together, these teams like 28 year olds, pros, that's crazy to me.

Do you think USA will ever win a gold medal again? Well, they don't even underdogs anymore. I mean, the USA hockey players is as good as anybody and we got more people, so I would expect they certainly should, right? What's your thoughts on US hockey right now? They're great players. And winning something that big,

you have to have a group of guys that are willing to do what it takes to win, right? And, you know, that's gonna be interesting on how it is. But from a talent standpoint, they're not underdogs anymore. The development program probably came out of what you guys did and all the interest and they make that. Well it's really interesting.

The USA Hockey, only because Dave Ogren's a really good friend of mine, and you try to run USA hockey a non-profit, and you start to understand how you get the money. Well, they started getting the money for that program from the National Hockey League, who gave it to the Canadian program. So the US program had to get better in order to get more money. And so that's where a lot of the money comes from,

right? And so the greatness about this game now is people are playing it everywhere. And what I love and I think what our team really helped was with women and ice hockey and how great those women players are, which is just such a great thing. Made everybody want to be a hockey player. Without a doubt. Let's grade the game. Any leftover questions, Jackie? Jim, Kyler and I were arguing about this

a little bit earlier, but after the dust settled and he got the gold medal, was there ever a moment where you and her bellied up to the bar and shared a beer together? Oh yeah. Yeah, baby. You know, every relationship is based on the need of the person you're having that relationship with You know and I I would venture to guess that your relationship would just say Belichick is different now than it was

When you were playing no doubt. Yeah, and how you can help him now He's probably more vulnerable than he would have been if he was your coach, right? So, you know, I just always think that your life is full of different chapters of your life, right? And as I said, mine now is a grandfather, it's like the greatest chapter, right? But the part that I think's important is, you wanna write these chapters,

you wanna be in charge of these chapters, right? You don't wanna try to live from the past. And so people might say, well, you make a living out of what goes on. No, I spend a ton of time being relevant and taking what I've learned in business and in life and from being a parent and make it useful and try to provide people with tools.

And one thing I always say to people, you never tell people what you need to do, right? Because to me, when somebody tells me something, that means I'm not smart enough to understand what they think is right. I like to invite people to think differently, right? Be curious, right? And so it's really kind of interesting. And so when I watched your show and how you guys prepared, and I saw all the work that's

going to be done, as part behind the scenes or on the scene. It was really interesting to me, right? And I've got some ideas for my own business from seeing what you guys do. Let's fucking go. You need someone to produce it, we got a production company. Yeah, no, I got it.

All right, let's name the game. Do you have any specific names for this game, or is Miracle on Ice pretty good? I think that's about it. Yes. Making sure just making sure. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Jim Stakes, zero to 10 decimals.

OK, the stakes of this game that technically wasn't the final. But a huge bump in the road to get to the final. Yeah. So, I mean, if you don't hear it's like if you don't win, you don't go on. Right? Yeah. So, you know, I'll tell you a story where we're after the first period, after the second period of the game against Finland for the gold medal, and we're losing two to one. Well, we've gone from the underdog to the favorite.

The whole place is booing us. Right? You know we've gone like hey man you be the rush you beat anybody right? And it's no you can't right? So it just shows how fickle the thing is and how strong the players were to be able to stay focused. Without a doubt. So am I supposed to give a number to this? Number, 1 to 10 decimals okay Jim. So this gotta be a 9.8. I like that. I would say a 9.82. Jack with a 9.4, I had a 9.9. I mean we have the Cold War, this is goddamn Russian. Countries on the line.

The star power of this game, 0 to 10 decimals okay. Well, so the star power is lopsided, right? So it's more Russians and then there's the unknown. Yeah. So, I mean, it doesn't get any bigger star power in the particular sport that you're dealing with. So, you know, that's got to be really up there too. So, give that a 9.5. Nice. Some Hall of Famers from both sides. Herb Brooks Hall of Fame. I'm going 8.9. But the other part is they would have been Hall of Famers. They just

couldn't have played. Yeah, they probably all would have been Hall of Fame. So here's something kind of interesting, right? So there is the Hockey Hall of Fame and then there's the International Ice Hockey Hall of Fame, right? Well, I am fortunate enough to be in the International Ice Hockey Hall of Fame. You would never be able to get in there now unless you were a superstar in the NHL and the other ones. So when you look at the star power, the people on that Russian team, every one of them is in the International Ice Hockey Hall of Fame, which is higher than the Hockey Hall of Fame. So when you're looking at their credentials,

it's pretty high. Put a number on a bunch of fucking legends. Yeah, it's tough. That's crazy. Jack's number is 7.0. I went with the, I was kind of the Russian judge here, if you will. Sorry, guys.

I had an 8.1. The gameplay of the game, the back and forthness, the entertainment value for the viewer, as a player, your game play, zero to 10 decimals, okay. Well, I gotta believe from everybody who's ever told me, it was like, they were like, absolutely 100% intense, so it's a 10.

Edge of your seat, all game, baby. I'm going, without a doubt, a 9.2 of your seat all game, baby. Absolutely. I'm going without a doubt a 9.2. 9.2. Jack. And I don't want to have it overrated because it's the game I played in. Get out of here. I usually give people shit for overriding games they played in. The Miracle on Ice, you get a pass.

When I look at gameplay, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about- Just the game in general. And the name of the game. Miracle on Ice, you're actually grading the name of the game. And the cultural impact. Cultural impact.

Cultural impact, so is it two questions or is it one? It's one, just the name of the game. I don't think the name of the game does it justice, because I don't really think it was a miracle. I like it. So the name of the game for people who don't know what the work and things that put in would have ranked much higher for me but it wasn't a miracle. So I don't know what else I would call it but I'll give that a seven. For me I'm not a hockey guy.

I became a hockey guy when I went to Boston and started living around a bunch of hockey dudes and worked out with hockey guys. But I knew what the fucking miracle on ice was. That is a nine point two. I gave it a 10. Jack with a perfect 10. Perfect 10. All right, let's clip it up.

Let's see. This could be a high ranks. This can be this is going to be high, baby. This could be the highest honor of the games we've buckle up. Nine point one six. Where does it go on all of our games that we've done? It's fourth just ahead of the Snowball game. 2001 AFC division around Patriots versus Raiders and just below the Malcolm Butler game Super Bowl 49 Seattle versus Patriots.

This isn't a patriotot bias podcast either. If you see the top five games. Only a little bit. So fourth, not bad. We're a little biased. That's insane. How many games have we done now? 78, I believe.

78 games. These are all 70. Good place for it. Is this our? No, this is our second. This is our first Olympics. First Olympics. Wow.

Jim, we miss anything? No, you guys are great. You guys have done so much homework. And your intentions are good. There's not a show like yours. It's special, right? We appreciate that. We commend you for that.

Because it's not easy. It takes a lot more work, right? You know what this came up out of? Kyler, we were all talking right before Thanksgiving, around this time. We went down to his local bar, and some guy came up to him. He's like, you playing this high school team? Remember this one game?

And nothing's more fun than talking about historical games with people that were in it or involved with it and then scoring the game so it's a fun thing and we that means so much to the people right here the you see these guys what you just said listen I've There's always about ratings. And there's quick ways to do it and there's right ways to do it. You guys are doing it the right way, right? And you'll get more people who come on because you're doing the right thing. And so your name matches up to what you do. So it's impressive.

We appreciate that. Going from you that means the world. And I just want to take over for one second. I'm a Massachusetts kid. I played hockey my whole life. Like I went to high school when miracle came out. Like this game means a lot to like the Massachusetts hockey identity and just Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. This is this is gonna be huge. Thank you very much. I've always wanted to meet you. So that's even more cool. I feel like we've kind of met we rub shoulders in practice but you know how... Yeah I just remember the one time you know I'm sitting with Bill and he's dry and stuff so okay so I don't know if you remember this but I go in I'm speaking and so Tom is right in front of me and Jimmy Garoppolo is right here and

this guy Rick Kimball is really good friends with the the Brady's because he flies Tom's dad in to see all the games so this guy, Rick Kimball, is really good friends with the Brady's, because he flies Tom's dad in to see all the games. So this guy brought LinkedIn publics. He's got all kinds of money, right? So I go, Bill, so what can I do? How hard do you want this to go? He says, no, Jimmy, do your thing.

I said, OK. So I remember I said, hey Tom, this really means a lot to you because you've been here now and you've won and you know how hard it is. And you come from a great family and I know your mom and dad is really good. I go, Jimmy, I go, what do you do? Do you bring Tom's shoulder pads outside

and when he's on a TV thing, stick your head in so people can look at it? Or are you preparing to take his job like he did Drew Bloodsell's? That's how I started the thing. I remember that now. And then the other part that was really fun is I remember saying, how many people here are rookies? And you know, they all raise, you know, all these people get up and raise their hand,

I go, you're not rookies, you're New England Patriots. And the expectation that Belichick has for you is not of a rookie, because rookies make mistakes and he's not gonna have you. You're a New England Patriot, right? The other day you were a rookie, but you made this team today. And so the mindset that I always felt that you guys had was,

it didn't matter if you're a rookie, you're a teammate, and you're expected to do your job, and if you're put in there, you need to execute. And there's no excuse for it. I don't care if you're a rookie, I don't care if you're hurt, I don't care if you're tired, right? So it was really kind of interesting. No, yeah, that was, I do remember that.

Because everyone didn't know if you could like laugh or like oh you know it's funny is there's teams that you coach and sometimes there are teams that you can only manage a football team is so big you can't coach that team you have to manage that well you got to rely on your individual coaches it's a true team yeah you can't micromanage like That's why Bill's also great at that. I go, so is Brady the team captain? Shit, no.

Nobody can even understand how he does what he does. He doesn't have anything to do with it. Then he would say Slater was the guy. Slater's the guy? We've got his inhaler over here. Yeah, I lived with Matthew Slater for four years. We'd bunked up before we had money. Go check out Jim. I mean, you're going to probably see him at a business talk or something.

Thank you so much. We appreciate you coming. We'll be right back after this quick break. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and my latest interview is with Wiz Khalifa. The craziest part of my life. I can go from performing in front of 40,000 people. And my latest interview is with Wiz Khalifa. The craziest part of my life, I can go from performing in front of 40,000 people to either being in a dressing room, being in a plane,

or being back in a bed all by myself. He is a multi-platinum-selling recording artist, mini mogul, and an actor. Which among the one, the only, Wiz Khalifa! Did you feel like a big break was coming? I didn't know what that big break looked or felt like, but I knew that what I was doing was working. The gang banging and the drug selling,

that's not really for me. But the looking cool, the having girls, the making music, I'm like, I like that part of it. How was that experience for you? Losing someone so close to you that you love. I am grateful that I was able to have, like, the last moments that I had and to be able to prepare for it and it was something that I'm still dealing with.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Martha Stewart has been a household name for over four decades and still isn't done. Join iHeart Media chairman and CEO Bob Pittman for a special episode of the hit podcast, Map and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, as he interviews this icon in front of a live audience to celebrate her 100th book, Martha, the Cookbook, 100 Favorite

Recipes with lessons and stories from my kitchen. This intimate and wide-ranging conversation between friends covers the pivotal decisions in Martha's career, the philosophy that has guided her, and the source of so much of her creative inspiration. They actually looked at the July issue that I had prototyped and they said, this is fabulous. What would you do next July? And I said, well, living is a limitless subject matter. Listen to math and magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarchi.

And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season, we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them. We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact. We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different

through today's perspective. And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom-made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Man, I just want to just go stream USA for the next two days. All-timer. Can't do games with names.

We can't be on the search for the greatest game of all time without doing Miracle on Ice. You can't. That was unreal. You know, that should have been higher. Should have been number one. Should have been one. Yeah. I do feel a little embarrassed at our top four fucking Patriots games. Yeah, you got to start texting non-Patriots people. I do feel a little embarrassed at our top four fucking Patriots games. Yeah, you gotta start texting non-Patriots people. I know, who, who, Van Oy.

KVN, baby, he's still out there ballin'. I think I almost cried like three times that episode. But like, man, as like a Massachusetts hockey guy, like, that was just fucking surreal. Sharp guy. Yeah. Knows that, like, he's really taken his time and his experience, and he even said it, to reflect.

And he's very thankful for everything that has happened in his life. I really liked that, and it was really refreshing for me. Because sometimes it doesn't matter who you are in your life or what's going on. You could have everything in the world. Sometimes you don't feel great about what what's going on or this, that. When you sit next to a guy like Jim Craig. I make you feel great about the shit sandwich you're about to eat.

Hey, who knew you were so close with Coach Belichick? I know it's crazy. So as you said, Nantucket is said and then tuck it is like, yeah. Yeah What do you say thank God I didn't go to Boston College, that's right I've broken like a true terrier, baby. So Boston College is like Well at that time was better than BU They're both that's crazy. I think we're a Catholic guy Yeah, be used a little bit or B.C. is a little bit more. Wow.

No, that's man. That was fucking awesome. That was all time, man. That was all time. And it feels nice to be the glazy and not the glazer sometimes. It was pretty nice. He was glazing you. Collective glaze. He was glazing the shit out of you. In the best way possible. I think about, you know, every time my daughter orders a donut. She's like, Dad, my favorite is a glazed donut.

Do you believe in miracles? That is such an iconic saying. It's not a miracle. Okay. Not a fucking miracle. Hard work on ice. Hard work on ice. Hard work on ice.

This doesn't have the same ring to it. I don't know. But because of Al Michael's iconic fucking miracle call, I think we should go relive some of the other greatest iconic sports calls. Yes. In the history of the game. Starting it off. Who wants to start this bad boy? I'll start it off. All right. All right. Down goes Frazier.

Down goes Frazier. Down goes Frazier. The heavyweight champion is taking the mandatory eight count. That was epic, bro. That is Howard Cosell from the 1973 heavyweight championship, Frasier versus Foreman, when Foreman knocked down Joe Frasier and then went on to win in a second round TKOKO down goes Frazier and down goes Frazier. That's an all time like that one just pops up in random conversations.

They matter what do you think if Frazier didn't go down, we get a like Frazier's hobbled Frazier's hobbled. Get the George Foreman. I wonder. I wonder we got to that's a whole not nother we could maybe be a Frazier grill Maybe they would go after him instead. It was supposed to be the whole it was supposed to go to Hulk I think all hulks put this the story. Well, yeah, he's probably hating that Yeah, the story was I think his son was sick at school

So Hulk missed the phone call to go pick up his son Nick from school And then they ended up sticking Hulk with like a blender grill. Yeah. Was it was it a Hogan grill? We should have, I guess. Yeah. Wow. And that that the stranglehold that the Foreman grill had on American households. What's up appliances? It is incredible. I was so down on that frozen patties I put on that thing. Oh, my God. College. Oh, my God. And that thing was so dirty when you had it in college.

You're the little filthy. Thank God I had that low service. Yes. Yeah. Oh, it's the next one. You got the next one. I got you got to get this next one from Kevin Harlan. You got it. You got it. All right. So I do this one. This is a long one. It's a long one. So I'm not going it. Oh, boy.

This one is from a Rams 49ers Monday night football game 2016. There's 1134 left in the game. The Rams are in Levi's Stadium playing the 49ers. 49ers are hosting. They're up 21-0. This has been like a bad game

overall. It's just like kind of boring. Nothing much going on. Punt Fest blowout, as we can tell by the score 21-0. And a man runs onto the field, Kevin Harlan, with an iconic call. Hey, somebody has run out on the field, some goofball in a hat and a red shirt. Now he takes off the shirt.

He's running down the middle of the 50. He's at the 30. He's bare chested, banging on his chest. Now he runs the opposite way. He runs to the 50. he runs to the 40. The guy is drunk, but there he goes. The 20, they're chasing him. They're not gonna get him waving his arms.

Bare chested, somebody stop that man. Oh, they got him. They're coming from the left. Oh, they tackle him at the 40 yard line. That was the most exciting thing that happened tonight. The man is drunk. But there he goes to the 20. Like, it's just so good that normally they cut away from this

and the NFL wants nothing to do with it. The broadcast wants nothing to do that. You can still go on the official NFL YouTube page and watch this clip. This is a radio. This is a radio broadcast. Yeah, the man is drunk. The man is drunk. I think the NFL should start showing. I don't know why they don't show him.

It's fine. It's probably you never know because if something, that and then also there's gonna be one of these times some crazy happens. Maybe titty out, a DL. You know, approach. I'm sorry. I gotta say too, I'm a streaking purist, baby.

You gotta let, you gotta hang on, baby. Yeah, you can't just like put your shirt behind your back. Yeah, come on, then you're just a jackass Be a real streaker have pride in it, baby. I'm old school old school guy guy you want to get what? I don't know either you want me to do is I want uh, I like the Kurt Gibson That's a Kurt de la Rosa was named after him. Was he really? Yeah, I know but his dad wanted it different But it was named after Kurt or Kirk. Oh, sacks right in on deck.

But the game right now is at the plate. High fly ball to right field. She is gone, folks. And then he. Man, the situation here was Dodgers Athletics World Series Game one, 1988, L.A. trailed four to three. Kirk Gibson came hurt the pinch hit with a three to count two outs. Man on first.

That's like the the situation you always draw up in the backyard. Hurt Kirk. Even hobbled. He could barely run. Got hurt in the series before this. You know, he was like a fucking crazy three sport athlete. I heard he was like an insane football player. I did not know that. I heard he could have been like a crazy. I think he was like a stud stud. He was a stud stud.

Have like stole the ball career, putting the ball on play. Oh, yeah, we got it. It gets out. But I have like steals it. Have like stole the ball. I've like stole the ball. It's all over. Shout out to Johnny Most. That's our main man, Hondo John Havlicek stole the ball, it's all over. Shout out to Johnny Moose. That's our main man, Hondo, John Havlicek.

That one just, I mean. Did I just mess up that Havlicek? I think you did, but it's all good. Jack's going to be upset. Gear put in the ball and play. He gets out, but Havlicek steals it. Havlicek stole the ball. Havlicek stole the ball.

It's all over. That did it justice. That was awesome. Game seven of the Eastern Conference finals,, 1965 Sixers-Celtics. The C's go on to beat Wilt the Stilt. Casey Jones dribbled out the clock on that one. Johnny Most immortalized that call. I'll do this one.

Fourth and five, the National Championship is on the line right here. He's going for the corner. He's got it. That's the iconic call from Keith Jackson. 26 seconds left. Texas has the ball fourth and five from the USC nine yard line. USC was leading 38, 33 at the time. This was for the whole kitten caboodle.

Oh, six Rose Bowl USC, Texas, a game we must do on this podcast. That is a we got to do this. Pause or less. We've been showing. Yes, it's Vince Young and McConaughey. That would be epic. As we got liner in Bush ready. I got I got this last one.

I got this last one. All right. You got to do this one. They get it back now to the 30. They're down to the 20. Oh, no, the band is on the field. He's going to go into the end zone He's gonna go into the end zone. He's got in the end zone. Will it count?

The Bears have scored. The band is out on the field. There's a flag all over the place. Everyone is milling around the field. The Bears have won. The Bears have won. Oh my God, the most exciting, sensational, dramatic, heartbreaking, exciting, chilling, finishing the history of college football. Oh my god, the most exciting sensational dramatic heart-breaking exciting

You put your whole back into that one, oh my god eat your heart out Joe Starkey that was awesome I remember watching this one. I'm not watching it, but this is I mean group in the Bay Area I was just gonna say how important was this in the Bay Area as a legendary game, the play, the big game? You know, considering this was like, what year was this? This was like 80s. Yeah, this is before me. But like everyone around knew this play. Not a big college football area. Right. Pro sports town. Right. But you know, I knew that everyone knew this play.

Everyone knew this play. It was crazy. And the band was on the field. I lost my voice from that was awesome. I'll get you some hot tea after this. John Elway was quarterback. John Elway, Ron Rivera was in this game. And Ronnie Ron. No one was someplace.

This is I still don't understand why he had to knock out the trombone. Like here's going to go in. Bang. Here's the real question. Let's say you're returning a plant. And this happens. What do you what are you doing? I'm returning a plant and this happens. I'm using the guys as defenders like you're like taking a band. I like a referee, bro. Yeah.

This guy's on or you got to use the referee as a sometimes you pick a little something you're using whatever's on the field. Don't don't get mad at me. You're the player. People are on the field. How do you use a sousa? Yeah. Put them on skates. So we even through them. And that's Stanford Bay.

You know, there's some there's some wild. Man, those are fun. That was so funny. These are some iconic calls. It just like we said, they elevate the moment. And we and we can we just do Al Michaels real quick just because we're here. Yes. It's a miracle. Yes. Do you believe in miracles?

Yes. I love that one. Not that I was not tonight, boys. I was so happy to hear that how faithful most of the miracle movie was to. Yeah. Fucking Disney. They got to tip your cap to Disney. That little Craig Patrick story about the springs. That was interesting. That was interesting.

Yeah. You know what? That wasn't about putting the boys in and developing the boys. I was about developing the coach. Sometimes a coach needs to be developed and the boys get in the way of it. Let Jim Craig's always watch fucking love Jim Craig. What a fucking what an episode. Thanks again to Jim Craig. Thank you, Jim.

Thank you, Jim. Iconic, man. Iconic. Not like an old Boston accent either. That's true. It was hidden. You can hear a little thing. You know, he lives in Florida now. He probably hushes it up a little, but I bet you get a little grandpa's old cough medicine and he sounded like he's from fucking right out in the South. The I bet lives in Florida now. He probably hushes it up a little but I bet you get a little grandpa's old cough medicine He sounded like he's from fucking

Right out in the South the I bet back in acts those ours are turning in age ours are turning And also shout out to my dad and my dad's friend Brian Raymond I was texting them for a lot of information from this game My dad's friend when the team when USA beat Russia him and his buddy got in a truck drove to Lake Placid They never places they didn't do anything. They and drove to Lake Placid. They never places They didn't do anything. They slept in the back of their truck. They smelled like gasoline They able to sneak into the gold medal not the gold medal game But the bronze medal game and they were there for the medal ceremony. He wanted me to ask Jim if he smelled gasoline

I didn't think it was appropriate. Shout out Brian. So much about junk man Well, Jim Jim's goalie coach or what he's saying. He had some coach just drove right up. I was your was your dad from Lynn, Massachusetts, like those people. Not far off the city. Love baby. Hey, lovely. Lynn got a lot. That was awesome.

That's been another episode of games with names. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast comment a game you want us to do and remember rate and review remember to follow games with names on YouTube Instagram X tick talk and Snapchat leave a message on the old hotline and that number is 424-291-2290 we'll see you guys next week. Games with names of production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and my latest interview is with Wiz Khalifa. The craziest part of my life, I can go from performing in front of 40,000 people to either be in a dressing room, being in a plane or being back in a bed all by myself. He is a multi-planet ceiling recording artist, mini mogul and an actor. Which among the one, the only, Wiz Khalifa. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.