Games with Names - The Avery Rule Game with Sean Avery | 2008 Eastern Conf. Quarterfinals: Game 3 Devils vs. Rangers

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Sean Avery is in studio! The former NHL winger turned actor is with us to relive one of the most infamous games in NHL history: The Avery Rule Game. Sean joins us on the couch (2:16). We go back to 2008 (31:50). We dive into these teams (44:40). We get into the game (1:21:42). We score it (1:52:19). We wrap up by hitting the Chill Line presented by Coors Light (1:58:57).  Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremorchi. And I'm Holly Frye. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season we explore a new theme from poisoners to art thieves. We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On Tech Stuff, we travel from the minds of Congo to the surface of Mars. How the f*** did they write that overnight? That's an amendment. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How the f*** did they write that overnight? That's an amendment. I've never read that. Not an a-uh amendment. That is YOUR amendment.

Dude, everyone hated me so much. I mean, I was f***ing out of control. That is the wildest thing I've ever read. Holy f***. I see another loophole to a loophole somewhere. I mean, I just... Dude you guys just saw my brain explode on here. Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman and they're Jack and Kyler and

we're on a mission to find the greatest game of all time and on today's episode we are covering Devil's Verse Rangers Game 3 of the 2008 Eastern Conference quarterfinals, aka the Avery Rule game with actor and NHL legend, the Avery Rule maker, Sean Avery. And we get into talking the origins of this infamous Avery Rule. So like I was so far up this guy's ass that he wanted me dead. He would not have shed a tear. His incredible Bret Hull story. My buddies had left these pot brownies in the fridge. And he ate three of them. She's like, Bret's in the walk-in closet.

He's been doing snow angels since like four in the morning. And then acting in the Christopher Nolan movie. A Nolan set, there's no cell phones. Generally, I black out. I don't remember. Yeah, it's kind of like playing for Belichick. Yes, a direct parallel. And on today's Chill Zone presented by Coors Light, we're hitting the old hotline. Or you could say the cold line to answer some of those voicemails.

Only if the mountains are blue. You gotta stick around for it. So let's go. Yeah, let's go. for it. So let's go. Let's go. Games with names is a production of iHeartRadio. April 13 2008 Madison Square Garden, New York, New York. Tied one to one. The New York Rangers have a two man advantage. Call it tactics. Call it antics. Call it effective in the end. I'll never seen anything like this This is the every role game Welcome to games with names today We are looking at Devilsils vs Rangers game three of the 2008 Eastern Conference Final quarterfinals, the Avery Rule game with the one and only Sean

Avery. Sean in one sentence, why this game? I went to bed, I woke up in the morning and they had changed the rule. Is this the greatest game of all time? It's my greatest game. Yeah, yeah. If I could, if I may, if I may. Yes, I put a I put a hell of a game on the board that night. I mean, they yeah, wild, wild.

The whole thing is fucking wild. It is. It is. But let's jump into what's life looking like these days for you? Oh boy, these days, you know, I was thinking about that this morning. Life is quite beautiful. Yeah.

It's a good, it's a good, I just did a, I'm an actor now. I guess I can say, you know, four years ago, I'd say I'm an actor, but are you really an actor? You know, like actors say they're actors, but if you're not a working actor, say I'm an actor. But are you a really an actor? You know, like actors say they're actors. But if you're not a working actor, you're not an actor. That's my, you're not a football player unless you're on a football team.

I'm an aspiring actor. You, by the way, your airwaves right now, I mean, you dominate commercial land on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Thursday. Well, there, and Thursday. Well, there's commercial actors. There are commercial actors. I would rather not be a commercial actor.

What kind of actor are you, Sean? I'm a thespian. I'm a thespian. Although I just did Happy Gilmore, too, so. Whoa! How is that? Oh, man. I mean, listen, Sandler is like God.

He really is. You know? To anybody. Yeah. They have a bar on set. They are not woke. They are woke no more, I will say. That movie is going to be funny, and they're going hard.

They're going hard. And everyone's in it. Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny? Yeah. Kelsey? Kelsey. Did you hard and everyone's in it. Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny? Yeah. Kelsey? Kelsey. Did you see him on set?

I saw Bad Bunny. He's shorter than you think. Not that big. Short. Not that big. I didn't even know it was him. Yeah. I mean, I had to ask.

It was like a crossover and a fitting. And I said, I could tell he was somebody. Yeah. You know, he's got swag to him. But when they told me Bad Bunny, I was like, wow, he plays a. Well, I don't want to say he plays. Yeah, I shouldn't really. So but Sandler's the man. I mean, that guy's been making movies on his own schedule

about things that he's that he wants to to to make for like 25 years. That's the dream. That is the dream. And you know, I think that that's like a one-off. Is, am I a comedic actor? You know, maybe at some point, but right now I'm a guy, if you give me a gun, although I play a weatherman in Oppenheimer,

but I'm a soldier. So that's my niche right now. So you're typecasted as a soldier. I like to play soldiers, CIA, FBI. Yeah. Now do you want, like when you're taking a role like this, when you're the weatherman in Oppenheimer, which, freaking see Sean in Oppenheimer

and give people some context. Sean lives in my daughter's neighborhood. Yeah. And... Your daughter, Lily, takes care of my son, Nash. Metaphorically, you know, they watch out for each other. Exactly. She watches out for Nash.

And Sean's kinda like the neighborhood watch. Right. Yes. So, you know, I'm sitting here. First time, I'm walking up the street one day with my partner and we're, you know, we're having a discussion. I had to take a phone call. It was the first time I ever, I never met Sean.

And this guy's sitting on a stoop of this street. Not even my house. It's not even his house. And he goes, Hey, you don't work out or something or I don't know what would you say? I said I think I asked you if you've stopped working out. Yeah, he goes you stop working out I look over I'm like who the fuck is this guy? And he goes you're looking a little out of shape or some I'm like who the fuck are you? Yeah Yeah, he's like what did you say? I'm Sean Avery. I think I said, Hey, Julian, I know who you are.

I'm Sean Avery. I used to play hockey, but I knew your buddy. Yeah. I knew the guy you were with. Right. So that kind of, yeah, I neighborhood watch. I was, I'm just taking a, keeping an eye out on the street, really. You know, and then we introduced each other and we've seen each other around the block

a bunch because it's a cool little street that has neighborhood parties and Halloween's fun. Yeah, and Fucking Sean's just a funny guy and then all of a sudden one day I look and I look at TMZ and I'm sitting there. I was like is that fucking right by my daughter's house And Sean I'm like neighborhood watch man He's blocking the world baby trolling the goddamn streets had to get some guy out of the what is a red zone yeah they're in a red zone you know I'll tell you quickly I can I can make this quick when I got traded from the Detroit Red Wings to LA growing up my parents loved Crosby stills Nash and Young and when I got

traded to LA I was like oh, Oh, I'm going to live in Laurel Canyon. Like, fuck it. I had no idea where Laurel Canyon was in relation to Staple Center, El Segundo, which is where the practice rink was. So I moved to Laurel Canyon and did a reverse commute. Everyone thought I was crazy. But Laurel Canyon is, is, is it's its own thing. Yeah. crazy. But Laurel Canyon is is is it's its own thing. Yeah, it's its own world. It's its own vibe for the last hundred years. When I got traded to New York and then came back pandemic, it was like we got to go to Laurel Canyon.

So, yeah, that's sort of the I have a long history with the neighborhood. Hey, the neighborhood appreciates the neighbor. Appreciate it. It's so funny. Hey, the neighborhood appreciates you. The neighborhood appreciates you. It's so funny. Getting back, how do you, so when you're watching, or when you're taking a role as your soldier, FBI, CIA, or weatherman, how do you prepare for these things? Are you watching?

Are you doing ride-alongs? Are you doing research? What's your preparation process for your acting? I guess it's it's different depending on who you're working with. Like I've done two Christopher Nolan movies. I did Tenet and then I did Oppenheimer. You know, Tenet, which is an unbelievable movie that you need to watch eight times, maybe 16 times to try and understand like what's actually happening. maybe 16 times to try and understand like what's actually happening. And you don't get to read anything really before the script is on super, super locked down. You get to read it once,

you know, prior to the job and then you get your sides the night before your scenes usually. So with Nolan, you don't really know what you're doing. Like on Oppenheimer, I had no idea what I was doing because they also give you dummy sides. So when you audition, they don't give you the sides, the scene that you're actually gonna play in the movie. They give you something similar from a different movie. So you have no idea what's happening. You can't really figure out, you got a general idea.

You know what I mean? I haven't yet, and this is like the evolution of, you know, starting off your career, your first couple of seasons, I haven't got something that is a lot of reps yet, you know? I'm not a regular on a TV show. I've done a lot of movies now, but you know, movies are like two, three weeks,

and then you're out. So hopefully that comes, you know, I'd like to, but I wanna also play like a horticulturist. A what? Like a guy that knows plants. You know, I wanna do weird shit. A plant guy. Yeah.

I like that. Yeah. See, he brought that in because I was showing him my plants earlier. I'm A plant guy? Yeah. I like that. Yeah. See he brought that in because I was showing him my plants earlier. I'm a plant guy. I didn't I don't know the scientific term for. And by the way you don't need to. But it's a good what is that word? You're gonna make me say it again. I got it out once. Pretty good horticulturalist. And how where'd you get that word? Where'd you pull that from? You know, listen, I do these fucking auditions and all these words. I had to audition. Yeah. I had one audition once. Yeah. I had to do a sex scene

with a guy over Zoom. First audition ever. Oh, wow. Like, for real? Yeah. And I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't get in the zone. That's the stupidest thing anybody has ever done, made anyone do. Yeah, what would you do? It wasn't like a sex scene, it was like, I was like with a female, but the guy, it was a guy. I'm a first time one ever doing this stuff, and they're putting me in this situation. Clearly didn't get the role.

Yeah, well. Yeah. Yeah, who got it? the role. Yeah, well. Yeah. Yeah, who got it? I don't know, we'll see. Because I have a list in my garage of people that have gotten roles that I should have got. Yeah. That I'm gonna tell them one day.

You remember that role? Who's on that list? He's sort of like a good looking blonde hair. It's like a California guy. What the hell is his name? He was in White Lotus. Not, it'll come to me, but you know, there's a list. You didn't have a list in college?

Never, no, Sean, I didn't have a list. What is this happening? Billy Madison? Steve Buscemi? Does he have a list? Yeah, and Billy does. No, Steve Buscemi. Does he have a list? Yeah, and Billy does. No, Steve Buscemi. Yeah. Oh, right. And Adam called him. Man, I'm glad I called that guy. Yeah.

So there's specific movies I've done. I did a movie called Amsterdam with David O. Russell directed and I have like I have a walk and talk with Christian Bale and then I have to utter a racial slur to Chris Rock. And I got the sides that morning because of Russell's notorious, he kind of rewrites scenes as he goes. At that point, I was not a seasoned enough actor

to get sides the same day. Now I could. I could just get it. So that movie, if you go and watch it, that was a full day. Yeah, now I could. I could I could just I could get it. So that movie, if you go and watch it, that was a full day. I have no recollection of the day whatsoever. I think like I blacked out probably 20 minutes in. I didn't know any of my lines.

Christian Bale, Christian Bale. OK, he didn't know who I was. He had no idea who I was. He didn't know that I used to play for the Rangers or any of this shit. He thought I was an actor. That fucking guy walked me through that day. Just at lunch ran my lines with me. I had no idea where I was or what I was saying. It was the worst experience ever. And my buddy was a producer and he got me the audition and the whole thing. I thought it was over. I thought it was done. So there's times that I've had

where like I don't even remember certain days because dude it's not like putting a helmet on and like we can just do that in our sleep. This is so fucking high stakes and stressful. I think what we used to do that in our sleep. Yeah. This is so fucking high stakes and stressful. I think we used to do that in that environment, but it's something we're comfortable and we've been doing our whole life. You're jumping in and you're a rookie in this world. Yeah. So it's different, which Christian Bale taking the time out of his day to work with a new actor who doesn't know. That's just straight leadership and fucking cool. You know, like there's a lot of guys,

I'm sure that don't do that, but you hear the cool stories about Christian Bale. The big boys, the big boys, just like, you know, you or Tom or whoever it was at what point on what team, these guys like Bale knows, dude, I don't want this kid to suffer. I want to get out of here. Let's get a great scene. Let's win and get the fuck home. Yeah. No. So he did everything. I mean, I've I at one point during a take, I just I was like, Holy fuck, Sean. I said that to myself and I could see in the corner of my eye,

Bale was literally like at this point, kind of like on the ground laughing. And all I heard, and I don't know if, David O'Russell is an incredible director, but he's had some savage moments on the internet. He's yelled at actors before in a legendary way. And all I could hear was him screaming from somewhere behind Video Village, Sean, just

keep talking, say anything, just keep talking. And at that point, I realized, yeah, because there's more cameras. So even if I keep talking, I don't bail on the on the ground laughing right now. Now I really ruined the scene. They can't get anything from him. So it's incredible. It's like, you know, Pete Berg, Pete put me in my first movie

and I think he knew what I was doing because like it was Patriot's Day. Yeah, yeah, with Wahlberg. With Wahlberg and I mean, my mind exploded. There's 200 people on set, they go action and all of a sudden it's like holy fuck, you gotta go. Yeah, I felt that. I remember the first day I did TV and it's different

but it's similar because you're playing a personality and you gotta perform when the red light's on. Yep. And no one teaches you, there's no handbook, there's no nothing, you have to just belly up and be able to do it. And it was like very, I had so much anxiety, it was like stepping out of my comfort zone so much

that I know exactly what you're feeling, which the biggest part of why I don't like to get into acting is because the line remembering and why I don't like to get into acting is because the line remembering, and then I don't wanna be the liability on set because I don't wanna waste people's time and it's such a fucking team thing, with the teamsters, the camera people,

the producers, this guy, and you got some slap dick that doesn't know his fucking line, he's getting nervous. So I understand that anxiety you have. Yeah, it took me eight years to be able to do it. Like, I swear to God, it took me eight years. I stopped playing and I don't even know, 2013. For eight years, I just learned how to memorize lines. Yeah. Like that's something you had to do. How many fucking routes do you have to run? A lot. Yeah.

It just gets into that, like, and now I feel my head, I feel my brain is different. I can feel like there's weight in different areas and it kind of feels good. You figure it out. You figure out what to remember, key things. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can cheat. I can cheat.

Now you're from Canada, you grow up playing hockey, then you went to school Until you're 16 because the whole hockey thing you guys leave school and are uneducated And I've played and hung out with a bunch of hockey guys Where the fuck this acting interest come from did you have acting interest as a kid or? When you started playing where'd this come from no we always thought I, my mom put me in a drama camp when I was six. And, um, she said I lasted like half a day and she had to come and get me.

And that was, and I sort of vaguely remember it. I remember like the gymnasium, the church area of Toronto that this camp was at. I had PTSD from it. And I always thought guys that acted in high school and stuff were kind of like, you know, the wimpy kids. Yeah. Thespians. Yeah, thespians were a little bit weird. Yeah, that's just fun, bro.

I didn't know them. I didn't hang with them. Yeah. But then you realize it's art and what we did as athletes was art. It's just a little bit more sort of. Not according to Meryl Streep. Oh really? Yeah, she called out football and UFC after getting an award once saying, most America likes to watch athletes

and that's barbaric and stuff. They don't think that moving like a ballerina when someone's about to take your fucking head off is art, I guess. Yeah. Jules has a one-way beef with Meryl Streep and Ben Affleck. What did Ben do? Ben just was talking shit on ESPN

that the Patriots didn't have receivers while I was there. Have you guys ever squashed it? There's no real beef. I just talk shit about it on here. We had Casey on here and talked about it. We had Casey on here to talk about it. Casey, Casey like a boss and guys basically like whatever Fuck it. Well, what do you mean? Whatever? It's whatever. It's more of a hype thing

Well now I have a beef with Ben Affleck. That's right, baby. I'm gonna say I like that and I'll be on a set He I'll be on one of his movies at some point. Yeah, I'm gonna pull him aside and go listen I think we should address this whole I like this situation. I like this. Right. Totally out of nowhere. He'll be put him on notice. He probably doesn't even know about it. Well, he does. He will.

Soon enough. No, I think they're making the Pete Rose movie, which I have already. You're in it. And I will be in it. Athlete, soldier, weatherman. Yeah. Pete Rose, baseball player. Charlie Hussle. Fuck yeah.

You're going to audition for Pete? No, no, no, no. I think that Chris Pratt should do that, or Wahlberg. I don't know. It depends what age they have. Yeah. Wahlberg would be a great Pete Rose. He would.

Yeah, like. Because it's the same body type too. Yeah, and Mark can look like a 35 year old, easy. It's crazy, he's like almost, he looks young. He looks great. He lives healthy. He does. You know? He does.

You got to. So you did the act, I used to do, I used to do all the school, junior high plays. I read that somewhere, yeah. I used to do I used to do all the the the school junior high plays I read that somewhere. Yeah, I used to love doing I did crazy camp. Bye. Bye birdie And I would always I loved getting a laugh out of the audience, right when I was a kid So I the the I would be terrible at remembering my lines But I had always improv a little something and I just loved that. Yeah. But but hold on, I can let's just address. I don't know if you guys have talked about it.

I watched the Brady roast. All right. I understand. That's a blackout moment, too, by the way. I'm sure some of those guys did not remember anything that they said when they got up there. Like some of the athletes, probably there were a couple of guys that looked like they were just not there. Yeah.

Like they had left their own bodies. You fucking nailed that. But you went and did a couple of nights at the store. Yeah, that's acting. I mean, improv, you know, I think all these great actors have the ability to just kind of like any of the Tarantino stuff. Those guys are riffing that DiCaprio scene and once upon a time in Hollywood

When he fucking rips the trailer apart. Yeah, those those lines weren't written. Yeah, so You're on stage doing your thing like there's a teleprompter. Oh you used to teleprompter. Yeah, not at the store No at the store. I read off paper right I didn't make eye contact. I was so scared. You didn't. I was fucking terrified. I was still killed though. It was the first time. And it was like it's more intimate at the store. Like you're at the where was it at the forum forum?

When you're at the forum, there's 10,000 people. And the people I saw were people I knew. Right. You know, at the tables and stuff. I went to this I went to the store. It's intimate. There's like 60 people. Thank God there was like a group of 15, like frat boys that loved football, that I could say anything and they were going to laugh.

Right. But I was like nervous, shaking up there. Like, that's tough for like any time you do something new. Yeah. You're stepping out of that comfort zone. It was tough. Yeah. I prepared for that shit. I go to the store sometimes, the Belly Room, and they let me just, I just go in and do a set. But I don't have anything. I just do crowd work.

I just make fun of people in the crowd. How does it go? A couple, you know, I've done it like four or five times. A couple times it's gone well. A couple times it hasn't. Hasn couple times it hasn't, hasn't. Did you get anyone under anyone's skin? Yeah, but yeah, crowd work is like, that's improv. Yeah.

Because you gotta move, you gotta just, you gotta work off of it. Yeah. That's the type of comic I love. I love crowd work, guys. Yeah, you're really great on it. I mean, you displayed on Instagram through your stories and your TikTok. Youck you you said you broke the algorithm

Yeah, so it's a lot of improv work when you're doing live games making fun of guys with an eraser or whatever Yeah pencil an eraser the pointer the pointer So that are you working your improv while you're doing that as well? Yeah, absolutely You're working that's work. That's time on task. Oh, it's not free. I mean, no one's paying me yet, except I'm the whole thing. You're putting it in the bank. No, I'll tell you what. I wanted to get into the TikTok Creators Program, which

is a program that if you meet certain requirements, you get into this program. The deeper I got into it, I realized that TikTok, in my opinion, is like Ready Player One, the movie. Like I think that we're all going to be living in TikTok soon. You can buy, you can sell. There's people making a million dollars a year selling candy on TikTok. Live candy, stores. Anyways, long story short, I got obsessed with TikTok. They weren't letting me in the creators program because

they said my content wasn't original, which I couldn't understand because I go, guys, I'm I'm basically doing my own play by play. I'm making up all these jokes or anything that I'm saying. It's my it's as original

as you can get. The problem was that the algo, the algorithm, the algo, it's as original as you can get. The problem was is that the algo, the algorithm, the algo, it's based on shapes. So if you go on TikTok, you'll see a kid doing a review about the Housewives with like Call of Duty underneath in this split screen, because the algorithm likes shapes. It thinks that you're being original. So I go, okay, what the fuck am I gonna do?

I gotta solve this problem. Like I'm not quitting, I gotta figure this out. Yeah, yeah. So I basically merged the future with the old and I went on Amazon and I bought a pointer stick. And now I do a play-by-play with a pointer stick which is exploding on TikTok. That's gotta be hard too.

I see how you, I can't see the puck ever, so you're following the puck, it's good for that. You like it, right? I like it. They tried to do a glow puck. Fox tried to glow the puck, remember? Back in the day, it didn't work. You can't glow a puck. But, you know, it's taken me, it's a dexterity game.

That word I almost didn't get, It's a dexterity game. That word I almost didn't get. It's a dexterity game. I had to get, you know, depth perception because I got a fucking phone in one hand. I'm sitting on a little tiny little kid's chair because I got a, you know, the screen on the phone and the TV screen, it's only so big. So it's this whole science. Anyways, the pointer stick is blowing up and people love it. And it's only so big. So it's it's this whole science. Anyways, the pointer stick is blowing up and people love it. And it's all improv. I'm on the fly. I make it fun. Some jokes and stuff.

Yeah, it's funny. I think it's entertaining. It's I'm not a big hockey guy, but that brings me to hockey. The chicklet dudes bring me to hockey. I have to have pop culture with hockey. Right. Because I'm American. You've worked with Nolan, David O. Russell and Peter Berg. What's unique about their style and who's your favorite to work with?

Well, so I've made multiple movies with Nolan and Nolan and Nolan, but Peepberg, who made Friday Night Lights and. Fuck Lone Survivor. Yeah, I work out at his gym, Churchill. Your box there. Yeah. Try to. Try to, yeah.

My ass beat. You know, Pete once got me beat up by a boxer. I've heard the story a thousand times. I just did, yeah, Chris Cellios, I saw Chris Cellios like three weeks ago. He goes, oh, he goes, dude, Pete showed me a video. You get, I said, he's showing that video. He filmed me get fucking beat up by a box.

Can you showing our friends? Can you explain the story? I don't even know. He was like, come down to the gym and box. I got a guy for you to box. And this was like, we're coming out of COVID and I'd been running 60 miles a week and like, I now do jiu jitsu, which is great and beautiful and it like changed my life. But at

that point, I was looking for some sort of blend of like maybe a combat sport. And he brings me down to his gym and I got the living shit beat out of me by a boxer in his gym, I was wearing somebody else's mouth guard. Pete's like kind of a, the way he teaches lessons sometimes is the difficult way. I think with certain people. Tough love.

He's a director, you know, he knows, and I think when you have a director who's your friend, and so, but anyways, Pete, it's fun to make a movie with Pete Berg because he's like loose, you know? There's different sets. A Nolan set, there's no cell phones. Generally I black out, I don't remember.

Like I don't really remember much from Oppenheimer. I sat in a car with Matt Damon and Killing Murphy for like six hours. I have no idea what I talked about. I have no clue. I hope about. I have no clue. I hope to ask them one day, like, do you guys remember that? I doubt they will, but Pete, it's loose and it's fun

and he throws shit at you, you know? It's like a coach, you gotta feel comfortable. Any sets that are fun and comfortable, like Sandler's set is fun. But there's also different styles of coaching. Listen, I prefer the Nolan-esque set. When we made Tenet. But you gotta be there mentally as an actor.

Every day. You know, but like, I bet you it's, for a newer actor, it's, on a looser set, it's probably easier because of the tension. But if you go onto a tight ship, a Nolan something, you know the stakes and you know that everyone's bringing their A game always. Yeah, that's so juicy.

Yeah, it's kind of like playing for Belichick. Yes, that structure, it is. I would say that that would be a direct parallel. Those two guys and like the level of efficiency. We're not here. There's no fucking around. There's no fucking around and every minute is useful. Minutes, it's productive.

Yeah, by the way, golf claps for Bill. He's everywhere. Living the life. What do you mean? I mean, he looks like he's having fun. He is mazel tov bill. Enjoy your Enjoy life. He's enjoying life. All right, it's so cool and he's a human. Yeah, we now see him Yeah, that's what you that's what we we witnessed right you just very occasionally right? Let's rip your fucking head off. I played for Scotty Bowman, who I think would be the equivalent of Belichick

as far as the hockey coach. And Scotty would come in and. He would yell like if there was something that he wanted to talk about, he would address it in the completely opposite way. And it was always mental warfare with somebody in the room. Like he was a mastermind. You get in the sauna with this guy, talk about like what's your favorite food from back home?

Like what do you mean back home? Like Canada. I like wieners and beans. You know what wieners and beans are? Frank and beans. Yeah, yeah. We call them wieners and beans. You know what wieners and beans are? Frank and beans. Yeah. Yeah, we call them wieners and beans. He was like the most, he was like a gentle giant, like a teddy bear.

So that's what I see from Bill now is that, you know. If you don't talk to him about any strategic stuff going into like a game week and you bring in like regular life, he's a regular human. Right. Breathing air. I don't know about that yet. I'm still waiting on that.

Lastly, what's a director you wanna work with? It's your shot right here. They may watch it. Yes, let's see. I'd like to be on an Olivia Wild movie. Ooh, Olivia Wild. I like that. Yeah.

See what's popping over there. You know what I mean? I'd like to. Yeah, see what's popping over there. You know what I mean? I'd like to work for a woman, Catherine Bigelow. Hurt Locker, yeah. Yeah, like there's a couple that are. I'd like to work for a woman. I've never worked for a woman, ever, in my life, really.

So it just, artistically, I feel like it would be like, there'd be vibes. Something would be different. Yeah. It wouldn't be so rigid, you know. They could pull a different string from you maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

That would be fun. Yeah. I like that vibe. Yeah. Yeah. We need some more girls. We got Leah. We need some girls.

Well, everybody's, you know know coming out of their shell I think it's it's a fun time it is it is I spoke in here you can smoke wherever you want this in that house okay that's what the studio is called in that Wow look at this let's go back into time around when the game took place this game took place on April 13 2009 and we like to talk over pop culture number one movie prom night didn't see it did you 2008 or 2008 why did I say 2009 I don't know just living in the future baby living in the future I'll tell you movie and number one song from 2008 doesn't feel 2008 to me, right? I don't even touch my body

How does it go Jack touch my body That's all I remember. Yes. I went to Mariah Carey's concert those Really? Yeah. Wow It's pretty cool. Huh? There's a picture of that somewhere. There is. I'm not able to not see. No, me either. This is when movies, is this the start of movies going bad? Yeah. Well. Iron Man hit theaters.

Iron Man hit theaters? Crazy, this was the first Marvel cinematic universe movie. If you're not counting Howard the Duck back in like the 80s or 90s. I loved Howard the Duck. Technically Howard the Duck is the first of the MCU. Shout out, Howard. Howard the Duck, bro. My parents let me first of the MCU. Shout out, Howard. Howard the Duck, bro.

My parents let me watch that movie. Really? Yeah, mine too. And I look back watching that movie, I'm like, god, they probably shouldn't have let me watch that movie. Because Duck is like with a girl. Tits in a bathtub.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, something crazy. He was a wild character. Wild. David Blaine sets the Guinness World Record for holding his breath for 17 minutes and 4 and a half seconds

I just remember seeing him at butter on Monday nights butter Butter butter people don't know butter butter was the spot fun Where is that New York right? Yeah, that was past. I never went to butter. I went to like the up-and-down Yeah, it was the same. You know it was past. I never went to but I went to like the up and down. Yeah, it was the same. You know, it was that. Yeah. That group. Yeah. That was supposed to be the spot. Yeah. Butter was fun.

We used to go there a lot. What was what was life like for Sean Avery in 2008? But too fast. You just go to butter way too fast. Butter provocateur. The Beatrice really. No, we we we went to this place. There was a club in the West Village called the Beatrice really. No, we went to this place, there was a club in the West Village called the Beatrice Inn,

which is the, probably the, it had the greatest three year run out of, one of the best ever in New York. It was in a basement, but you know, you play in New York, like you play on Monday night, you got a Monday game or a Tuesday game in February. The club, the bar, it's on fire every night. Every night. Especially in 2008 because cell phones still weren't that, you know, you couldn't get that clear shot. Demois didn't exist. There was a lot of things that we didn't have to worry about. It wasn't me.

It wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. What was the New York City athlete scene like? Did you see the Yankees out? Did you live in the city? Yeah, I lived in the city. You lived in West Village? I lived, no, I lived at Grand and Mercer, which is like prime SoHo.

And no, you never saw any of the Yankees except Joba. Yeah. Joba. That is Chamberlain. Yeah. Yeah. Joba got out. He was fun like that. I used to see him in Boston

sometimes. He likes to get out. Yeah, he'd get after it. He was around. And then, oh, the dark night. Harvey Harvey. Matt Harvey. I used to see Matt Harvey. Matt Harvey.

I used to see Matt Harvey out a lot. Matt Harvey went out way too much. Let's just say that. We'll leave that for another time. And I'm not sure what year Watch the Throne came out, but I remember being in the studio watching those guys lay a track down in the Suberser, which was underneath the Mercer Hotel and so on. 2011. 2011.

You were there. You were at some of those. Right. But when did they make it? Oh, no. It can't released in 2011. Let me see when they're. I think they're. So, you know, New York was like. New York's fun. That's what was going on. Z and Beyonce got married that year. Yeah, yeah 2010

It looks like it started Right, so it was right around that time, you know that vibe of the city was still going So you Kobe won his loan? Wait a wait a you in 2008 you interned at Vogue I did that in the summer in the summer was up with that? Why'd you do that? Like fashion? Yeah I liked fashion. I liked being in the mix probably more. Yeah. But I also was fucking nuts and like wanted to do something in the summer. Yeah. You know some guys go home and I don't know they build build a cabin or garage. Like I was in the city. I wasn't leaving. There was no way I was leaving. Yeah. The Hamptons and

yeah, I just dove right in. And but that was an amazing experience, you know. Without a doubt, I used to go to I used to go to men's fashion week a bunch early in my career. Right. And just kind of learn it. And then, you know, I did collaborations with Joe's jeans and my pajamas jackets just because I built those relationships. And I did have an interest in fashion. I like I wanted to wear clothes that I I made. Yeah. You know, and it was cool.

It was fun. I would love to get my hands on a pair of those Joe jeans. I'll get you some. Yeah. They're athletic fit. Yes. They're athletic fit. Yes. They're athletic fit, but you know, it's more of, it's a good comfy jean. I would love to see this jean. They're stretchy.

They got stretch in it. They're stretch. A little elastin. A little elastin. I don't wear jeans without a little elastin. You know, I like the vintage old jeans, those. Already broken in for you, baby. Yeah.

I like those Levi's. Silver tabs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you you kind of invented the tunnel walk, didn't you? He claims the game claims to. I've heard this is a high claim. So I used to work with like super dry and all these and they needed a picture. So I would I would I would go to the Patriots like, yo, I need a picture on game day. Snap me so I would go to the Patriots like, yo, I need a picture on game day. Snap me so I can tag him.

So you're telling me, well, first of all, then the entire NFL should send you a thank you. Amen, brother. I don't know. Jason fucking Kelsey is it Travis or Travis? Travis. Travis. Travis.

He should thank you. Everybody, every walk that has been done now, that's a hell of a claim. If you're claiming that that was you, I believe you. I don't know if it was completely me, but I was one of the first to be doing those things. Cause I feel like I-

I used to have game day fits, I used to theme shit up. Hell yes. Coming in there looking cross-eyed, looking like a war hero. Look good, play good. Oh, themes. Like yeah.

Cause when you had home games, you got to wear, you didn't have to wear a suit. Really? Yeah. You had to wear a suit on a way game. So if it was Halloween, you could kind of lean into it a little bit. That's what Miles Garrett does. Miles Garrett for the Cleveland Browns. Cleveland Browns. That dude like gets crazy. He'll have like a game at one o'clock.

Have the fucking makeup crew at his house at like 5 a.m. So he looks crazy for the goddamn tunnel walk. Like he's getting ready for the Met Gala. You invented the tunnel wall. I don't know if I invented it, but I was one of the leaders. I was one of the founders, one of the forefathers, one of the forefathers. By the way, entrepreneurial. I can't say that word.

That's a tough word to say. But you were then being it right. You know, that's what that's what the United States of America Just a land of entrepreneurs amen Man just taking fit pigs, and I actually went to a fashion show with fucking your boy who Cohen. Oh Andy yeah To each other there's a picture look at these guys. Oh fuck Guys look like what is that a Tom Ford show no?, I think it was Jesus. What's the American Ralph Lauren? No. Another one.

It's not Tom Ford or Tom Brown. No, that's not not Ralph Lauren. No, that wasn't. It was. Oh, my God. Another American. It was like it's a traditional American brand. They have. Oh, that's Joseph Aboud. Joseph Aboudode Joseph a bird Joseph who made his suits at a factory in Buffalo Yeah, and they had the they had a long shoulder for the American man because they're a little bolder

Joseph a boot is one of the greatest men suit American men suit designers of all time. Like he he owns that silhouette. Yeah, that's wild. Who's the guy on the right? Don't know, but he's handsome. He looks like a buff Diplo. He does look like a buff Diplo. Hey, Diplo's buff. Oh, true, true. Sorry.

No, he looks like a. If Diplo wasn't a DJ in the sports world in 2007, 2008 Stanley Cup champions, the Detroit Red Wings. You got any Detroit was just they were pretty good on fire over here. Yeah, they were still ripping it. 2002 is my rookie year. Yeah, they they won.

Yeah. I mean, what a fucking team they were essentially the Patriots of the NHL in my opinion. They were. Yes. Why? 12 Hall of Famers. They were essentially the Patriots of the NHL, in my opinion. They were? Yes. Why? 12 Hall of Famers. You gonna be in the Hall of Fame, by the way?

I don't know. We'll see. Is it a debate? Yeah, I don't know. I don't have the regular season numbers. Who cares? You had them numbers when it mattered most, baby. Yeah, but that's what a lot of people think.

Really? Yeah. But multiple rings, many rings. I just put them on. Yeah. A few of them. Yeah. Detroit was was full of legends. And also, I think what's different about a like New England, Detroit Red Wings original six teams. So Ted Lindsey, fuck, they had Gordie Howe.

Like the history of that organization is deep. But that history, our organization's not that deep. We were 1960, we're an AFL. Yeah, yeah. So if we were like a Giants or something, that's who, the founding fathers are like the Giants, the Bears, those are like the Giants, the Bears, right? Those are like the oldest clubs. Right.

But that's Detroit. Detroit. Definitely. MVP Tom Brady. MVP Tom Brady. What about Ovechkin? This guy this guy's about to break the record, isn't he? Yeah. What are your thoughts? You played against him, right? What a gas tank on him. Holy shit. I mean, he's unbelievable. He just keeps getting bigger and slower and hits harder

and shoots harder. Like he's adapted as he's gotten older. He's sort of his game is adapted, but the end result is all the same. He still scores. Is he the LeBron of hockey? Well, that's what it's kind of like. He's outlasting people and he's productive at an old age. You're right, you're right. That's a good compliment.

Because like LeBron, he's still playing at an insane level and this guy is fucking 40. Yeah, Ovi's doing it big time. I mean, he's possibly gonna break Gretzky's record, right? All time goals, he's close. No one Gretzky's record, right? All time goals, he's close. No one ever thought that that would happen, ever. I mean, it was so astronomical. No one was going to beat that.

Patrick Kane, the greatest American-born player, I guess, at this point. He was drafted one overall. Where is he from? Buffalo area? Northern New York. Oh, he's a Buffalo guy. You're right.

Yeah, because he beat up a cab driver in Buffalo one overall. Where is he from? Buffalo area? Northern New. Oh, he's a Buffalo guy. You're right. Yeah. Because he beat up a cab driver in Buffalo one summer. Yeah. Did that just give you a little that that's like, I like it. He liked it. I mean, when I saw that hit the ticker, I was like, fucking Patty came boy having a summer. That's my guy. Yeah. That's my kind of guy. Yeah. Kobe won his last MVP. That's sad. His only his only regular season MVP. That's sick. And that wild is lone. No one hated him.

He was good. That's shocked by. By the way, can I take a shot? Are you on any networks with Alex Rodriguez? Let's hear it. Wow. Alex is so juicy. He's like purple. I was watching the the finals. You know, these guys get so juicy. Their's like purple. I was watching the the finals.

You know, these guys get so juicy. Their heads, they're purple. They turn purple and their skin gets like translucent. A-Rod, bro, take your foot off the gas over there. Oh, A-Rod, well, he won MVP this year. He was juicy this year. Juicy. AL MVP.

Huh? Juicy. Look at this. Jackie, let's break down these New Jersey. Well, he won MVP this year. He was juicy this year juicy a LMPP Yes Jackie let's break down these New Jersey. Let's pop it out of these Devils real quick This was the first year of the Brent Sutter era Leading the team for all you Brent Sutter heads out there 46 29 and 7 finished fourth in the Eastern Division Second in the Atlantic they were not a real high scoring team here, 26 out of 30, 206 goals on the season. And then the other way, not that great either,

let up 197 and this was the opening year of the Prudential Center. Famous in the Peru baby, down there in Jersey. Shut out 11 times during the season, which was a regular season high. And Marty Brodor got his 500th win this season. Some dude talk Brodor this was John Madden this was Brian Gianta. This is kind of the tail end of that Ranger at Devil's Run.

Yeah still some guys hanging on from the 03. Sergey Breland. Pandolfo. Zach Parizei Young. Got White still on there from the 03 team. Every week, who's killing it? I see you looking at this. I see you looking at the roster right now and you're like in a focus right now. What's the first thing coming to your fucking mind? What's so what's so crazy is that my feud with Broder was so fierce, fierce, terrible, like really nasty and mean.

fierce, terrible, like really nasty and mean that I had no idea Brent Sutter was even the coach of the New Jersey Devils. That was the first thing. I had no fucking clue who the coach was. I have no recollection of ever even looking over at their bench. I'm sitting here, he's doing the math in his head. That's the fucking coach when we're explaining the coach. Brent Sutter was the coach of the Devils that year. I had no idea. But like the feud had been going on for years. So it was so fucking heated any time we went there and we called it the Rock or they call it the Rock.

That that rink sucks. It's the worst. And it's in Newark, New Jersey, which is also a hell on earth. Basically, what started this feud with Bordor? When I got to do it, you're doing them all day. Bordor, Bordor, Bordor. That's how we say it in Canada. Bordor, hey, Bordor.

My first game getting traded from L.A. to the Rangers was against the New Jersey Devils in New Jersey. And it was just like a perfect storm. You know, so were you pissed that you had to leave L.A.? No, I was so happy. It was literally like Phoenix rising like I was being reborn. And I get to play the first game in New Jersey on the road. I'm going to fucking turn it on so much.

Like everyone is going to know who I am tomorrow in the New York area and New Jersey, which they definitely did. Right across there. Yeah, it was that game. It was like it was like that game. And so what started this feud with him? I ran him that game pretty fucking hard, like which is not allowed. What does run him mean? It would be like after the kicker kicks a field goal, if you ran full speed and just dropped your shoulder into the kicker and killed him. The extra point kicker, not the guy that kicks at the beginning.

Like, what's he called? The field goal kicker. Yeah, they're both the same guy. They are? Yeah. So you go out and you take them out. Was that just because you wanted to let everyone know, I'm fucking Sean Avery, I'm arriving to New York. It just happened to be.

You make it here, you make it anywhere. Yep. Yep. Bright lights, big city. I can see the city from Newark. You see it. I'm basically there. It just so happened to be the most famous winning

goaltender of all time. Maybe one of the greatest. Well, yeah, probably possibly the greatest goaltender of all time. Do you still hate him? No. No. You respect him.

Oh, yeah. I thank him. Fucking, yeah. Yeah, he did a lot for me. I mean, you need players like that on the other side. Yeah, you gotta, there's healthy to have a little hate between teams. It's getting too, you know, it's too buddy-buddy now.

That makes, there's a hatred in between the lines or on the ice, but there's always a respect once you leave. Yeah. You know, we turn into different humans when you're in there. At least I do. Well, no, I do. I didn't.

And in this particular situation, what sort of poured gasoline on the fire was I took it to like I took it to a place that you probably shouldn't take it to. There were no rules with me and Brodur and Brodur was going through some shit on his own, whatever. It's kind of, it's weird, all right? They called him Uncle Daddy and there was all this weird shit that went on nothing like I Think he hooked up with his wife's sister, right? I think that's what happened Yeah, and that was like let him know that yes, that was part of the feud part of the feud was Was I took it to a place that it shouldn't have gone. So how a lot so you're you're a big research guy for your roles

You researched other goalies. Absolutely. And you wanted to know everything that made them tick. I call them touch points. I love that. What's another touch point you had with the guy? If my left winger fucked his sister in junior or college, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. But that, I just went into that sick mode. You know what I mean? Like that's what guys college. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. But that I just went into that sick mode. You know what I mean? Like, that's what guys say. I'm sorry.

You know, if in the NHL at that point in time, like it was, yeah, it was ruthless. It was it was with certain guys. And I played with a couple of guys. Steve Ott was also very good at it. You know, we were small guys in a big league and you did anything you could to survive. And it wasn't just, you know, because we're allowed to do it

and in football you're not allowed to do it. You know what I mean? You get a flag. You get a flag. Right away. Here, they don't do that. The jarring and the shit-talking is non-stop It's non-stop between the benches every time a guy skates by the bench. It's it's just like it's like recess with your boy Yeah, just always it cracks me up watching you guys in your behaviors

Yeah, sometimes it'll be a guy that has nothing to do with the play and a guy will just be skating like you did one time. You just hit him while they go by. Is that just to like, hey, I'm here. Fuck you. No, yeah. And some of it was like retribution. Some of it was you were trying to set it up.

There's almost a lot of baseball rules in hockey. Like that hidden etiquette. There's a lot of that hidden etiquette stuff that you're not a hockey head. You don't understand. Yes, yes. And actually the culmination of like the game that we're talking about was it was two or three years of just this, just this bad. When I look back on it, it was really dark. Like I remember, it was dark, like coming back from New Jersey and my fucking eye is,

I got a black eye, my mouth is all messed up, I was just in that shit hole saying terrible things to him. Like it was a real war zone, the Battle of the Hudson. Once the adrenaline drops, the human comes back out. Yeah. And you're probably sitting there like, man, that was a fucking, then you gotta do it again the next night.

Yeah, once the tort all wears off, actually. Who is one of the guys that you loved getting under their skin, other than, not on this team, just in your career? One guy that you loved, you circled it. I want to get under his dude. There's well There's a person on every team but on this team is David Clarkson. We had some legendary legendary battles Legendary battles and David Clarkson is a bad dude, you know says bad things Plays a hard game very very good player. He is

fucking mean and tough and he was nasty. And, you know, he was a little bit bigger than me but but like he was dangerous and I hated I had to take that my edge needed Aaron Asham, a fucking killer, a killer, just put guys to sleep, you know, like Lyra, literally put guys to sleep, knock guys out if you fought him. They had some bad dudes. Colin White was a bad dude. He you know, I think on the original play with

the first original hit with Broder, Colin White jumps me like just gloves off and there's put you to the ground. Eight guys on top of the dog pile's going on in the dog pile? Is he saying shit? Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to fish hook whoever I can fish

up and get the fuck out of there quickly. You know, so you get smashed on the back of the head. Do anything. The only thing that's off limits, it's like one of those unwritten rules. You know right away to tuck your hands, because we got fucking scape blades. Yeah. I mean, and for some reason, hockey players have a sixth sense about that, where like that's the one thing because you're you're down there,

but you're trying to like you're getting beat up, too. Yeah. That's what's crazy. The sport like you're actually allowed to beat people up on the ice. It's wild. The it's got you're actually allowed to beat people up on the ice. It's wild. It's gotta be very hard to keep your balance. And I watch, and so I was watching when you guys hold and you gotta really rotate and keep your distance. But while you're on fucking skates,

that's tough, your groins must be very tight. Yeah, it's like catching a ball up over the middle. Different. I mean, but. The guy's not trying to punch me under my gut like catching a ball up over the middle. Different. I mean, but. The guy's not trying to punch me under my gut. Well, you get a forearm on the teeth, so you know, but. A shoulder into the sternum's just as bad. It's, it's.

Yeah, yeah. Who was the hardest guy to get on? Who was the guy that was like fucking. I could get, I could crack anyone. Anyone, you could crack anyone. Except one time, when I played in Detroit, my rookie year, Colorado had an unbelievable player,

captain, winner, Joe Sackick. And I'm on the bench and Sackick is in front of me lining up for a faceoff. And I lean over the bench and I just start motherfucking him about the suit that he wore into the game because I saw him walk in. And all of a sudden I feel my jersey pull, like really pull me, pull me like my dad was pulling me and fucking yank me down on the bench beside me.

And it was Brett Hall who I lived in his garage. Brett Hall is one of the greatest players of all time. in his garage. Brett Hall is one of the greatest players of all time. He kind of looked over at me and said, you will not speak to Mr. Sackick in that way. And I was like, okay, Holly got it. And that was, and so I never said anything from that moment on. I never said a word to Joe Sackick. He was he was off. He was off limits. He was anointed off limits by someone who, you know, when he put that on, you were like, OK, because Holly would not say that about too many people. Yeah. So you lived in Brett Hall's fucking garage.

Yeah. I used to live in a teammate's house for two years. Really? I just got to say the check. And yeah, I'm going to be on the team. Yeah. I lived above his garage. Dearborn. No, sorry. We were in Birmingham, Michigan. Beautiful. Birmingham, Michigan. The house was the jukebox. And he drove an old T bird and I just had to start the car in the morning. That was the only thing. And you know, he didn't

take he wouldn't take my money. But, yeah, yeah. Had to turn on the fucking heater. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And then one night he came home after a game and I wasn't there. And my buddies had left these pot brownies in the fridge and he hadn't smoked weed in 17 years, but he loved dessert. And the next morning I started the car no holly and I went up to the to the other side of the house and Darcy his girlfriend at the time she's like

Brett's in the in the walk-in closet he's been doing snow angels since like four in the morning and I'm like what the fuck fuck? He had no idea. He went home after the game and they were in the fridge and he buried like two or three of them. Those are the days where you make the butter. They're so, so strong, dude. You eat one of those on a plane, you want to jump off the plane. And he ate three of them and was in a hole,

went to Mars, the whole thing. Bread Hall. Yeah, rocks. Greatest American, one of the greatest goal scorers in the history of the NHL. What a, you brought them to the moon. In one word, before we move on to the Rangers, in one word, how do you describe the New Jersey devils?

Filthy. I like that. They are, they were at that point, yes. Filthy can be used that. They are. They were at that point. Yes. Filthy can be used in a good manner too though. Yeah. But when you associate it with the Hudson in Jersey and like dead bodies and

shit, all kinds of shit, you know. I mean, it's true. Yeah. But by the way, there's parts of Jersey I love. Tanafly, New Jersey. I love it. Yeah. I would live there. You know, there's some nice parts of Jersey. Yeah. But by the way, there's parts of Jersey I love. Tanafly, New Jersey. I love it. Yeah, I would live there.

You know, there's some nice parts of Jersey. Yeah. The New York Giants play in New Jersey, I believe. Yeah. The Meadowlands. Yeah. So the New Jersey Giants. They took a ring from me. That's what I call. I call the New York Islanders the Long Island Islanders. That's so funny. They get mad about that? Yes. Yes. Oh my god. They don't like it. Jackie let's jump into the New York Rangers. Get into these Rangers 42, 27 and 13. Tom Rennie third in the Atlantic, fifth in the East. This was Henrik Lundqvist's third season, led the league in shutouts with 12.

He was standing on his head. Third year in a row, making the playoffs. Some big additions to this roster. Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, both in. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That's why you did Vogue, because Henry. Had a right. He was stolen by thunder.

He was so fucking good looking in those suits. You had to work in Vogue. That's the only reason you worked in Vogue. Yeah, you're right. Actually, very intuitive of you. Yes. One of the greatest looking men ever in the world. He and he's a hell of a goalie.

Just a stud to. Yeah. Yeah. It's a stud. Sorry for cutting you off. No, man. I was worried. I just had to do math.

You read my mind, brother. Some other guys on this team. This was Jagger was on this team, man. that's where I was going. I did math. You read my mind, brother. Some other guys on this team. This was, Jagger was on this team, man. Jagger. Yep. Oh, he certainly was. Man. What a player.

Dude, Jeremir Jagger, how could you explain what he is? This guy. He's still playing. He's still playing. Insane. He's 53. He owns a team in the Czech Republic. Yeah. Somewhere in. He's 53. He owns a team in the Czech Republic. Yeah, somewhere in the Eastern block.

One of, I mean, oh, fuck, Jogs didn't cut his toenails if he was on a scoring streak. Like he thought that everything was like being about grounded and the power in his body. He had the biggest legs I have ever seen. They were so big. They were the biggest, you know, like, like, like a fucking offensive lineman. But but he could jump his vertical like an unbelievable athlete loved to gamble on football. He just like me. He

he was like, he was so cool. You know, I grew up watching him. He was still firing at this point. Unbelievable. Almost a point of game player. What a player. Yeah. A real honor to be able to have played with him, honestly. You got to play with some legends. Yeah. I got some serious guys that I lucky, lucky. Just those old school heads, you know? Those old heads were different. Like they were like, because they were in the 80s. So there was this generational thing that they, and some of those guys defected. They were like actually defectors to the US.

And I got them on, you know, not the tail end of their career, but at a good point where they were still firing. Yeah, yeah. The Eastern block guys. Wild dudes. Are where they were still firing. Yeah. Yeah. The Eastern block guys wild. Are they just a different breed? Yeah. I mean, the Russians are. The Russians are incredible because they didn't have heat like six years ago.

You know what I mean? Some of these guys, seriously, they they, you know, at this point, like it was still like Russia, they didn't go home in the summer. Sometimes like it's dangerous to be a Russian player. Russians are so much fun. I loved playing with them. Swedes are like Canadians. Czechs are like Canadians. Very similar, sort of like a little gritty and kind of like the well-rounded guys.

American guys were starting to come into their own. Paul Mara, Boston kid. Brandon Dubinsky was fucking out of his mind, Doobie. We had some wild dudes on this team. Now, you ever drink any of that Russian gas? Yep. What is it? I mean, they can put it in the car and the car will start and they just drink it.

Yeah, they go. Oh, my God. Hard. But I also played with Russians that liked like newer new age Russians and they loved caviar. These guys, Russians like rich things. Yeah, they're just because, yeah, it's funny. You guys don't play with you don't never play. Yeah. Yeah. They're just because, yeah, it's funny. You guys don't play with any. Never play.

Yeah. Yeah. Russians are fucking wild, man. We're just straight America over there. But better tootin on this team. A complete wild man. Like great guy. We played so hard to great player.

Great player. How was Sean Avery as a hockey player? What was his scouting report? My God. As you get older, you realize like. Nothing was ever going to change my game. I could have been so much better at what I did if I just did a little less of like the one thing that I did, which was just cause like complete fucking havoc.

I guess with me, you could say that, and even I see people here in LA that season ticket holders, I only played here three years, a long time ago. They go, dude, I loved you on the team. We had no fucking idea what was going to happen from game to game. Like, and that was kind of how it was, you know. You didn't know. You really didn't know. Like if I was. Yeah, very unpredictable.

Always played hard, but my unpredictable and this probably hurt me and my effectiveness, like in my focus. So play 12 years long career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was it like playing in the garden? I mean, that had to be fucking pretty cool. Yeah. Is that one of the best for the hockey guys,

the hockey world? I mean, that's the Mecca. It's the Mecca. Best for everything. It's the best for everything. Concerts, basketball, boxing, UFC. Yeah, it's built underground. You're like under a building.

You're under a building. You're inside of the earth. And there's energy that comes with that. The building sort of moves and you can feel like you're in the center of New York City. And the dome, it kind it curves, but it never ends It's it's the fucking Mecca and then you walk through the halls and you see the pictures of like zeppelin Frazier Ali Republican National Convention Democratic National Convention like wild shit that's in and you can feel it in the walls. It's the best. It still is. It's, it's the best arena in all of sports, I think.

You ever see Billy Joel there? I saw Billy Joel there once. Oh man. I saw Billy there. Yeah. It's fucking amazing. Yeah. I see fish there. Um, I'm a big fish guy. Yeah. Oh, nice. Fish plays. Fish owns the garden. They've actually sort of, Billy handed Fish the mantle

as far as live acts, consecutive nights. Yeah, they'll smash his record, but fucking Billy Joel, Long Island guy, like what a New Yorker. I saw the boss in there too. Springsteen, I think. That's nice. I'm jealous.

That's a show. Yeah. That's a show. I love, I mean, that's when you're in New York, show. Yeah, that's a show. I love I mean that's well that's when you're in New York you got to see con it's freezing in February so you're gonna go to a goddamn concert. Yeah you gotta go to concerts indoor shit. You can do anything go up to Carnegie Hall you can watch like it's it never ends you go downtown go into a fucking k-hole with Macaulay Culkin for three days if you want. Like, you could go anywhere. That's my kind of New York City right there. I like that.

We'll be right back after this quick break. Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarchi. And I'm Holly Frye. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season, we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them. We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures,

including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact. We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective. And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom-made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

Karla Price Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Osve Lossian Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osve Lossian, one of the new hosts of the long-running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued. And I'm Kara Price, the other new host. And I'm ready to adopt early and often. On Tech Stuff, we travel all the way from the minds of Congo

to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology. One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like, data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality. How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place

where there's no electricity at night? Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity. So join us. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Can you describe to the football fans? We have a lot of football fans. We have a lot of hockey guys, a lot of hockey fans as well. But the agitator?

football fans. We have a lot of hockey guys, a lot of hockey fans as well. But the agitator. It would be the cornerback with no rules whatsoever. Like he would just be able to go anywhere on the field and talk shit to anybody, including the fans, including the opposite team coaches, fucking trainers like everyone's on limits. Everybody is fair game. And I say cornerback because cornerback can rove

a little bit, is that true? He can what? He sort of rove, he's like a rover. Go around, give me a safety. Oh, safety. More like a safety. Oh, safety does that, okay, so. Like an inbox safety that drops out.

So he can kind of go across the field and go if he's can play a little linebacker. They could go outside and cover a fucking Titan if they have to. If it's man coverage, be a safety. Yeah, that's the art of the agitator in the NHL. And there's been some great ones all the way back to Kenny Lindsman, who they called the Rat. He played in Boston. He was a legend, a legend.

The DNA of the agitators, somebody generally on the small side has a chip on their shoulder. This is the serial killer profile of an NHL agitator. Small, definitely the smallest on his team growing up. Everybody told him he wasn't going to make it. Generally a really good skater and has a good mind for the game, but is also maybe came from a home where everybody didn't tell each other that they loved each other that much. Like it was sort of like like rough neck. Rough.

But loving, but rough. Like a fuck you would be heard all the time in the house. Yeah, or a lot of passive aggressive stuff. Like if you didn't play well, like, you know, it's not OK. You're grounded. Yeah, yeah, maybe. You don't eat tonight. No, it wasn't that bad.

Generally, they have to have some flamboyance showmanship to them. Got it. Because you take a lot of heat. You generally have a target on your back. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, that's kind of it. Who's the agitators now that you like, that you look and you say, all right, this kid's a good agitator in the league.

It's really tough to kind of they've changed the rules so much. They've not flirting with it. Who flirts with that? Oh, no, I can do that. Of course, there's still incredible agitators in the league. The Kuchuk kid in Florida, who just won the Stanley Cup last year and his teammate Sam Bennett, who actually, you know, when I think about Sam Bennett, who's won a Stanley Cup, maybe multiple Stanley Cups now, Sam Bennett is the ultimate rat, shit-disturber. And Sam Bennett fucking hurts people still. Why? He hurt Marchand last year with a nasty secret sucker punch.

The art of the sucker punch is not. It's a beautiful thing. And that was one of the greatest of all time because he masked it. The art of the sucker punch. Can you get suspended after when they replay it? Yeah, but the problem was they didn't have the right angle. He got lucky on that. You got to be a magician to be an agitator.

Yes. So you're David Blaine. Well, yeah, some would say of the game. Yeah, yeah. You know, part of my career, I didn't have two referees. So they brought the second ref in and that made it tougher. But I used to I mean, I've shot, like, I used to shoot pucks at refs that I got pissed off at and I would make it, like, I would mask it as like a dump in, you know what I mean?

Or I would pretend I didn't see them. Yeah, the icing? Yeah, but it would just be at, you know, neck high and going fucking 90 miles an hour. And you could put that thing anywhere you want? Anywhere. Anywhere. Are you still good with the stick? I haven't held one in a while. But yeah, if we were playing road hockey, I'd be OK.

No, it wouldn't matter because I would smack your shins and shit. You know, and I would get and I would always have a stick in your armpit or in your fucking knee and you just be like, you wouldn't be able to play so I would make up for my lack of sharpness immediately right away I'd go like okay you just instantly go to agitation yes yes cheese Jackie continue it up um before we go real quick Sean can we get your Mount Rushmore of agitators real quick yeah Terry O'Reilly. Great Boston Bruin. Love it. I got to go Kenny Linsman, myself, Steve Ott and Tuomo Ruto, who was a Finnish guy who was very, very effective,

broken English. Ese Tikkonen won multiple Stanley Cups, Edmonton Oilers, New York Rangers. Esa was fucking legendary. Yeah, those are some good ones. I like it. I like that, heck yes. Before we move on to the game. Esa Tikkanen too, like wild names in hockey.

Yeah. I think we have a Kool-Aid now. Oh yeah? In the NFL, there's Kool-Aid McInstry. Kool-Aid McInstry. What's his name? Kool-Aid McInstry. Ray Ray is his real name. We got some names coming a Kool-Aid now. Oh, yeah, I fell there's cool Agentians or something. What's his name Kool-Aid McKinstry? Yeah, Ray Ray's is really names coming Kool-Aid Kool-Aid is sick fool name is you Wow Wild that's cool. He needs a deal baby. Get him a deal with Kool-Aid man. Yeah, right popping through the wall, baby Who's the team asshole this team? Were you the team asshole?

Who's the team asshole of this team? Were you the team asshole? Yeah, I mean, it's funny. I'm like looking to see a bigger asshole than me. No, no, I was the team asshole. You know, Brendan Shanahan, number 14, who Shani was the reason that I got traded to New York because I had played with him in Detroit. Shani is now the president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's like, you know, hockey royalty, multiple Stanley Cups, gold medals for Canada.

Shani was my babysitter on this team. Like, Shani was the guy anytime I did something and I went too far, he was the guy that I would get a call and I'd have to meet him at Nellows, which is uptown, like 70th and Madison. It was like going to see the grandfather, like sitting down outside on a patio or inside if it was wintertime and his legs would be crossed,

he'd be doing a crossword puzzle. And he would just like tell me that I fucked up and that I need to be better. You know and he would guilt me into into like re-correcting. Yeah. You need that every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember a specific time that you got called in to the Godfather's office up uptown. Yeah, it was actually so good. I was still playing in L.A. and we had our All-Star break.

And he told me to fly to New York because he needed to sit down and vet me before they pulled off the trade. And then two weeks. So I went and two weeks later, I got traded to New York. That was like the first that was like the real that was like being accepted into the family moment. But I you know, I knew

Shannon we had played together we were close but and then before our first playoff game that we ever played together and we were at Nello and I was so fucking nervous. It was my first playoff game in New York at the Garden and he was so calm. He was so calm and I was like what the fuck is wrong with you? Aren't you nervous? He goes no I left my three Stanley Cup rings at home. He goes, no, I left my three Stanley Cup rings at home. OK. And I just kind of like follow that lead of, you know, that's what they have. They have that common presence. That's but I was out of control on this team for sure.

Now, see, he's a legend on the team. There's a bunch of legends on this team. What was that dynamic in this locker room like? Was it a chill locker room? Yeah. Were you guys close? What was that dynamic? Yeah, so even like the locker rooms at MSG, they have a vibe. It's like going into, so hard to explain because the Knicks locker room is attached to ours. So like, we all have the same door and they just go to the right and we go to the left. So when we get changed into our underwear, um, before the game,

we are in a Nick's locker. Like I would be in Stefan Marbury's locker putting my, we call it Gitch. It's like our, the stuff we wear. So that locker room has this, uh, like walking into a sacred ground, like a hallowed room. It has this vibe to it, unlike any other room. I know beautiful locker rooms. You guys had one, the Jets, you see that. This was a thing. So like the music was a vibe and we had a lot of Europeans. So we only listened to like heavy techno trance, like fucking hard shit before games. Yes. And you could hear it because it would bounce off the walls. And the Knicks put

the sickest sound system in ever, you know. So it was a party. This team was a party team. We had a lot of partiers on this team and every game was a party. Who's the party animal? On this team, we had some guys that went hard. I mean, I definitely went the hardest for sure. So you got asshole. You got party animal. Hardest partier, yeah, yeah. So you're in it. Yeah, I was in it.

Too fast, moving way too fast at this point. First to say it, I just signed a four year deal, yeah, way too fast. Way too fast, let's jump into the game. Before we move on, just cause I saw that Nigel Dawes was on this team, and he's a unique player in that he never really quite stuck in the NHL but is the kind of the KHL legend. What was it like playing with him? Yeah, Dawes also half black, which is a rarity in our sport. Toronto Kid, yeah, he went on to play like a lot of years in the KHL, which is the Russian version of the NHL, which is a very, very good league.

Dawsey played pretty good for us, I think. How is their pay over there? They make big money. Oil money. Oil money. Are they allowed to come home? Yeah, they come home with bags of cash multiple times over the course of the year. Or they send family members with bags of cash home. It's the Wild West over there. KHL. That's so crazy. That's why I'm so fascinated. When we won in 2002, I went to Russia with,

we had Fedorov, Larionov. We had a lot of Russians. Anyways, I went to the Kremlin. They took the Stanley Cup. They had a parade there. That's a whole different world. And there's a lot of people over there. They love hockey too. And hockey is their sport.

Canada, Russia, 72. The Russians are incredible players. Great for the game. And Detroit was the birthplace of them defecting, really. Yeah. There's a great documentary called The Russian Five. You should watch it. We have to watch that. We'll watch that. All right, Jackie, let's break down this game. You want to get into the lead up real quick?

Set the stage. Yeah, lead up. All right, so over the final month of the season, both teams were around 500. The Rangers went seven and eight, Devils went nine and seven. The Rangers owned them all season, seven and one, that lone loss coming the final game of the season. Wow. Which would decide home ice advantage here. Devils won three, two and OT.

That was final game of the year. I had no idea that games one and two were on the road. Wild, right? Just black out. I had no clue. I guess it just didn't matter. Like at this point, it was so fun and so nasty, it didn't matter.

I probably liked going, I think I did like going there more. No, I liked that. You liked being the villain. You liked being the villain. Yeah. Is there a different energy, and I'm assuming yes, but can you explain the energy difference

between regular season hockey and fucking playoff hockey? Because I explain it all the time in football. There's difference between training camp speed to when you have a pre-season game to when you go to the regular season, and then playoffs, and each week in playoffs is like balls to the walls, there's no business decisions,

guys are literally trying to kill because there's no more games. Can you explain that energy? The jump between the play and the regular season and the playoffs, it's so exponential. It's like a thing that I think is just baked into us. It also becomes a performance. It's more life and death. The fans and everything gets baked into it. Playoff hockey, it's just a better game. It's a sharper game. Everything, there's no... We play 82 games, so

the first 20 of the season sometimes are a little bit sloppy. Yeah. Trying to work out your power play, penalty kill. Which is like in ours in our league as of late last five six years the first three games four games because they've killed practice time in training camp. Right. Has become sloppy. Right. Very sloppy. You can see it. You can see it. And then Sean mentioned games one and two. On the road. The Rangers took both of those. Four to one and two to one. Wow. So then that brings us to game three here.

A Sunday afternooner at the Garden, up two-oh in the series. First period starts out trading goals. Devils came out flying around. Wow, we lost, we, I didn't know they scored the first one. Then they got on the board first. Then Dubinsky tied it up. One, one after one. And then we go on the power play of five on three in the second period. Yep. That was a second period goal. Yep. 650 in. 650 in. That was the, the famous.

So that was after I had done the thing. Yes. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah. Scoring the goal off the after. Right. Right. Yeah. So what's the thing? Take us beat for beat with the thing is. All right. The thing is here. This is perfect. The difference between the regular season and the playoffs

in the regular season. My job immediately was go to the front of the net and try and make number 30 go crazy. All right. And in doing that, sometimes I would take a penalty because, you know, you're just, it's like a little bit looser and the stakes clearly are not as high, but you're in a different mindset. So now you're in game three of the first round. And during the regular season, normally I would go to the front of the net and the traditional way to stand in front of the net

is you stand facing your defenseman so that you can visually see the shots for tip-ins, because that's a big part of the game. Guys have made their careers just being great net front guys, being able to have hand eye and tip pucks in. Dino Ciccarelli was incredible. Thomas Holmstrom, who I played with in Detroit, one of the greatest ever. The problem was Broder was such an OG, this guy 500 NHL wins, that I, when I did it in the playoffs, and I think probably in game

one, I went to the net traditional and I get a fucking, I get jabbed in the back of the knee, poked in the back of the knee, but in the most perfect spot where when you're on skates, if you get poked in the back of the knee, you go ass over tea kettle. So he poked me and I fell into him. He sold it and I got a penalty. So now I just put them... So he poked the bear? Well not only did he poke the bear, he beat the bear, he out tricked the bear, he outsmarted the bear. The wise man knew what to do. So you're like a little cub right now? Yes. You're a cub, you're not even a bear. Right. And now I'm like out of my element,

and I go, holy fuck, because the stakes are high. I have to figure out how to not get penalized, because I want to stay on the ice. I want to score. I want to be effective. So the cub had to go to the penalty box, and this is where the Cub became a bear? Yeah, well at this point, and this was the triggering effect, we get a five on three,

which a five on three power play in the playoffs, very rare. That means they have two penalties right now. Two guys have to go off the ice. We have five, they have three. That's a big moment, right? Have to score. You have to score. Have to score. It's like do or die and if you don't score on five,

special teams. This is like a, special teams, right? This is Denver having a 36 yard kick to beat the Chiefs to win the game. You gotta hit it. But what happens? The Chiefs block the fucking field goal. Yeah. They came up with the play.

What a block. It's fucking crazy. So we get the five on three. Let me play this through because a lot happened on this play now that I'm seeing it. Because I'm looking at the time. What time was their second penalty taken? Can we find that out? Yeah, let me take a look here.

Because that would trigger the five on three. So I go, OK, holy shit. We're on a five on three. It's game three Stanley Cup playoffs. We're in New York. We're up to nothing in the series. I cannot take a penalty. Now, what people

don't understand is, is that for me to go to the front of the net and turn around, it's not safe. Because I got Jagger and I got Shanahan on the points for one timers. And when you're in a five on three, the box gets condensed. So now instead of them being 60 feet away, they're like 30 feet away. In our equipment, we don't have any padding in our backs because the game's always sort of played at the front. Like we go at guys and we take hits to the side. Like there's nothing in your back.

So I go, okay, fuck it. I gotta figure out a way to not take a penalty. But I also have in the back of my head, like if Yogg hits me with a one-timer in my back, he's gonna break my back. He's gonna fucking break my spine, but I don't wanna to take a penalty. So I got to figure, I go, you know,

these guys are the two of the greatest shooters of all time, Shanahan and Jagger at the points. I'm going to be fine. And I remember the moment when I got off the bench, because you can see it, I kind of come off the bench and we enter into the zone and you can see me like going just be lining it to the front of the net, which is where I'm supposed to be.

And at some point from my skate, from the bench to the goal, which is about, I don't know, probably 80 feet. I figured that this is what I was going to do. And like, I have it seared into my head. What Broder, what he looked like, his eyes, what they were saying to me when I went in front of them. No one had ever seen this before, like ever. No one had done anything so stupid or weird.

Because it's A, crazy that you could take a puck to the back and maybe become paralyzed because these things are fucking crazy be because etiquette Yeah, how come people have never seen this ship sportsmanship Maybe so we're in playoffs. Yeah playoff energy like we talked ten minutes ago. We said fuck sportsmanship Fuck my life the garden my spine, we're in the garden. I gotta do, I cannot get fucking penalty points

or whatever it's called, I can't go in the box. I can't go in the box. So you sacrificed your life and sportsmanship for this fucking play. We gotta keep this five on three, baby. Yeah, I gotta keep this five on three. Cause you know, ultimately, ultimately like I want a goal Yes, because I am at war with this goalie

So if I can tie this whole thing together somehow and I can bury one on him I got two on him in the series and Let's just both times. I scored on him. I reminded him immediately after. Like they would throw a flag in football. They would go, oh, take that. Yeah, taunting. Yes.

I would go right to him and tell him terrible things about the shit that he's done off the ice and that I just fucking scored on you. Did you see that goal? Fucking shit. Clearly he didn't. He didn't get it. Well, so it was war. Right. And that's what happened.

There's no there's what is it? What's the there's no fair in love and war. Yeah, there's all's fair. Yeah, all's fair. All's fair. Oh, yeah. And by the way, you know, he wanted me. They were trying to hurt me and it was it was good. It was like perfect. It was the perfect storm.

So what happens, I do the thing. I put my hand in front of his face, right? He moves one way and I move the other way. And I think he thinks I'm only gonna do it maybe like once and I'm not gonna really stick with the bit, but I stuck with it so anytime he moved and we had a couple of shots in the process I have no idea what's going on I I can hear the shots being taken so I I'm sort of like trying

to feel it I'll lift my leg up or kind of move with Broder because he's trying to goalies have to try and find the puck whether you're looking at them or away from them. That's part of their job. They got to track the puck. And a moment happens. It goes down to the back door to Scotty Gomez, who I'd played with all year. And I don't know, man, I just kind of like, I just stood there. And I was already facing that direction. So I didn't need to do sort of a 180 to Scotty who was in the corner with the puck. He could just, it was a direct line to me and it's sort of how it played out. A direct line to me who's already staring at Brodeur like kind of doing this. And then I can, I just, that's it.

I'm here and I get a pass and I bury it a one-timer and like the fucking place just went nuts. Like it went fucking nuts. We lost. What is Brodur saying? That, you know, I was so, I didn't. Did he have a name for you? Or what did he call you?

Did he call you Sean? He has broken English. So it's kind of, no, he almost didn't really speak. Like I got this guy so mad that he couldn't speak. It's basically the situation anytime we played them. And you can see, by the way, from that season series, we played them eight times. You guys, how many times do you play another team?

Twice in the division and then playoffs. Imagine playing a, you know them inside and out. Eight times. Eight times. And we beat them seven out of those eight games. So like, I was so far up this guy's ass that he wanted me dead. He would definitely, he would not have shed a tear if I fucking popped up on back page of the New York Post debt.

He would be happy about that. It was fucking war. I scored the place went crazy and that was kind of where it was just all in the same thing. It was like the same minute is the end, you know, and this idea came up on the 40 feet ice. Yeah, however far it is from the bench to the goal line at MSG. You didn't think about this on the bench? It just hit you right there. I never thought about it once. And the funny thing was, Chris Drury, who's now

the general manager of the New York Rangers, he's on the back door. So he's like back door on my right side, left side, whatever side. Depending on what side you're facing, he's back door on my right side, left side, whatever side, depending on what side you're facing, he's back door. The ref's yelling at me in the corner. He's telling me to knock it off, more or less. But there's no rule in this. So I'm like saying to him, what are you,

like we're talking, like you can see it, there's a conversation, I'm talking to the ref. He's like telling motherfucking me telling me he's gonna give me a penalty I'm like, there's no fucking penalty and then Drew re comes from the back door He skates over and he whispers into my ear while the play is happening Aves He's gonna give you a penalty. And I kind of turn to Drew and I'm like, for what? And then at this point, Drew's like, yeah, no, I gotta go back to my spot.

And then that was it. It went to Gomer, to me, and I scored. Now did you go back, you went back to it the next? Well, here's what happened. Oh man. Dude. All right, there's a rule, okay? The NHLPA, which is our union, you have one.

The NHLPA, which is our union, they have to approve any rule changes. They do it at the Board of Governors meeting in Palm Beach, Florida in the summer. It's a... Owner's meeting. Yes. Like they propose new rules, they all vote on it. Standard and all league procedures. Right. I went out after the game. I went out. I didn't go home. I went out. I know exactly where I went. I went down to Tribeca. My buddy had a restaurant and I went out. And I remember in the middle of the night waking up and I had

to go to the bathroom and I was like, fuck, I had blood. I had a cut and my pillow was like covered in blood and I just like, I had this thought about something. I could feel something happening. I wake up in the morning and I get into, the Rangers sent town cars for us, like that's how we would get to the practice. That's awesome.

Yeah, love that. Meetings like literally a black town car is in front of your building. You just walk outside and they drive you to the rink. And Manny was the driver. And he had heard because he drove RGM. He had already dropped off RGM. So I think there was a phone call,

long story short, they changed the rule overnight. Like they put an official release out. short. They changed the rule overnight. Like they put an official release out. I think they thought it was so, it was dangerous for the game or something or it was so radical that everyone was in agreement on both sides unofficially maybe, although no one ever asked me. I never got a call. They changed the rule. The rule was changed that next day. So moving forward, like in the series and all the other series with the other teams playing for the Lord Stanley's Cup, the rule was changed.

And no one ever told me why or how they did it. And like I said, I was moving way too fast and I wish I had a fucking stopped and like said, hey, can somebody just kind of put something on paper here so I can frame it? Maybe? Yeah, just kind of let's mark this thing. And and but no, I, you know, I was in the middle of a series also. Yeah, we had we had to play game four. And now we're in a series because they beat us in OT. So we're two one. Now, how did the hockey world take this? Dude, everyone hated me so much that I think

like other teams and shit, everyone was just like, yeah, no, you got to make, you know. There was no nobody stood up and said, hey, you can't do this, right? Yeah. And I'm in the middle of a series and like I had to figure out how to now not take a penalty again in game four. Yeah. With Broder because it wasn't going to stop. Any players from other teams text you or anything? Anyone text you? Dude, 2008 was I on a sidekick.

Courtney keyboard. Yeah. Razor. No, 2007 iPhone came out. All right. So I was on a first gen iPhone. Yeah, I does that that oh yeah, I phone came out all right, so I was on a first-gen iPhone Yeah, I don't know no again. I can't even remember really like I remember where I went after the game that night Do you remember what the boy said to you on the bench afterwards I? Remember what Chris Drury said I can still you know Madison Square Garden is loud I remember what Chris Drury said, I can still, you know, Madison Square Garden is loud. And like to have a player come up beside you,

your teammate and whisper or sort of not whisper, but kind of like yell in your ear cause he's got to get over, he's got to fuck, it's chaos. Be like stopping in a play in the middle of a play, a route and having a conversation with a guy and then like finishing the route. I don't know, but we're, you know, we play a route and having a conversation with a guy and then like finishing the route. I don't know. But we're you know we play a sport which is somewhat weird where we go really fast at times but then at times we're all stopped. Standing still playing tic-tac-toe with a ball

with like a puck. It's interesting that way. But no I I can't remember what anybody said. Who knows? Have you ever talked to Brodeur about it later? I have. Like, recently? Brodeur? Or whatever. What is his name, Brodeur? Marten Brodeur. Brodeur.

I like this. It sounds like South Park almost. By the way, fun fact about Marten Brodeur. His dad was a world famous photographer for the Montreal Canadians. Like he was the in-house photographer for the Forum in Montreal, which, you know, I think Ali fought there like his dad was Canadian royalty and his son now just played his first game as a goalie for the New Jersey

Devils. Wow. Good eyes. Full circle. If one's a goalie for the New Jersey Devils. Wow, good eyes. Full circle. If one's a hockey goalie, one's a, you know, they got a good eye. Right, you're right, you're right.

They can see shit. That's wild. Probably eat the carrots. Yeah. A lot of carrots, vitamin A. Yeah, yeah. Good for your eyes. You gotta make a comeback so you can score on his kid.

So yeah, imagine. That'd be tight. Now we're talking now She's gonna go up in there. There you go. There it is a little gnash like hockey. Yeah, he does I'm trying to keep him away from it for a little bit. They can play like I started when I was eight Yeah, you know, but if you grew up around it. Yeah, but we played like yeah, we play they don't do that here though Right grow up in Laurel Canyon. You can't fucking put the skates on and go play backyard hockey on now. There's no no there's too many hills No, I know. I don't know you know yeah, he'll play wow. What is this? This is the aftermath

The after let's let's hear the aftermath sort of wrap this every rule wrap this thing up There were 11 penalties in the second period The devil's got two power play goals then then Dubinsky tied it up again in the third and then an OT John Madden boom for the game winning goal ended up on a three Wow and the rate the Devils took game three and then the Avery rule came into effect as we just spoke about oh my god I don't even remember this. Rule 75.1. The amendment. No, yeah, no. But the WMBC TV cameras.

So now I remember what that picture was from. Or there's like a video. Holy shit, dude. My fucking brain just exploded. You know, you remember things like that. You didn't. Yeah. Because it's it's people want to say because you play played a contact sport. Oh, yeah. My CTE. Yeah. I mean, it's more about I think that you have so many other things going on in your life.

It's like a processor. You get too much gigabytes. You forget about certain things. Also, at this point, when you're in the middle of a series, like, do you remember what happened from game one of what, NFC to the Super Bowl final? Like, the narrative and piecing all those. It'd be more like, do I remember a play from a certain game, because you guys have so many games.

Right, right. You know, there's a lot of times where I don't remember, but someone will come on and we'll talk about and then it reunites something like you just exploded. I just felt that. It's a deja vu, but it's not. Okay. So the next day I went to practice, I had probably just found out an hour before when

I got in the town car, I get to practice. All the fucking cameras are there. They're all like lined up because the NHL has issued an amendment to the unsportsmanlike conduct rule, which had probably an amendment. It's like, that's like the constitution. You have men's constitution for fuck's sake. It probably hadn't been changed in 70 years. Who knows? So the cameras are all there and I come out and the first thing I do, I skate up to camera row and I just fucking flip them the verge.

Like I think with my glove on actually is the picture. Holy fuck, man. So yeah, I was really out of control clearly. Bad. And I haven't even, I've never read it. Well, there it is. And then sportsmanlike conduct, minor penalty will be interpreted and applied effective immediately to a situation.

This is the amendment, by the way. That's a long amendment to a situation when an offensive player positions himself facing the opposition goaltender and engages in actions such as waving his arms or stick in front of the goaltenders face for the purpose of improperly interfering with and or distracting the goaltender as opposed to positioning himself to try and make a play. Colin Campbell, the NHL director of hockey operations said in a statement, how the fuck

did they write that overnight? That's like wild. They got a lot of lawyers. They had a team of dudes working on that one. Because that says a lot of different things, doesn't it? Basically you can't like do anything in the goalie's face anymore or... What's distracting? That's an amendment. I've never read that. That is not an amendment. That is your amendment.

Holy fuck. For the purpose of improperly interfering with and or distracting the goaltender as opposed to positioning himself to try and make a play. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. You get it? Kinda? Kinda, what do you see? I see another loophole to a loophole somewhere.

I don't know. I mean, I just, I need some time. What loophole are you distracted, are you pulled from? There's a loophole are you distracted, what are you pulling from? There's a loophole somewhere. Now, is this the original one? Now, if you get penalized, are you gonna, do you have like a little court right there with the ref, like with the loophole? How can you explain the loophole?

Well, what's interesting, and so this is 75.1. Yeah. Rule 75.1 on sportsman-like conduct. This is the original one. On sportsman-like conduct, players and non-playing club personnel are responsible for their conduct at all times and must endeavor to prevent disorderly conduct before, during, or after the game, on or off the ice, in any place in the rink. The referees may assess penalties. Okay, so that's just like a general thing. Like you can't be an asshole, right?

Yeah. There must be 75.2 and things like that, I would say. Okay, that breaks it down a little bit. Like you can't yell at fans directly, maybe. Things like that. That amendment's wild. That is unbelievable. Wow. Wow.

Thank you for this. How's it feel like to have the league move that quick for something you did? Well, now is the first time, honestly, I swear to God, that I can kind of look at it and just put it all into like a box. Like I can I sort of see all of it. And when it happened, now I kind of feel and understand it. I mean, I was fucking out of control, clearly. That amendment is, that is the wildest thing I've ever read. Is it called an amendment

or are we just giving it the name amendment? It's that amendment. It's that amendment. Somewhere, right? Yeah, everywhere. Yeah, yeah, the NHL issued an amendment. Oh, there it is. To the unsportsmanlike conduct rule to cover the situation. Whatever happened to I'm just a bill made it up the Capitol Hill. Remember those things? Yeah, but I was going to go to Capitol Hill.

This thing out right there. What is that executive order? Executive order. Executive order. Yeah, it was an executive order. Executive ordered. Yes. You can write them Yeah, it was an executive order. You got executive ordered. Yes, you can write them and that's your day to just go. You just fucking let it rip. Like Raj for our league, the commish,

there's a rule where he can, it's like basically he can do whatever he want rule. Ooh. What day? What do you mean? Or just any time. Any time. Veto. You can't. He mean? Or just any time, any time veto? You can't. He's got the last veto.

Yeah. On anything. Yeah. Yeah. Or nobody can actually veto anything that he does. Right. Kinda. This is also puts this whole thing into perspective because like. We went on to win the series. Am I? Can I say it?

Let it rip. Then we lost quickly to Pittsburgh, Sydney Crosby. Kyler's team. Yeah. This was the start of their little run. They ended up losing to the Red Wings. Flurry. Yeah.

Yeah. Malkin. Malkin, what a team. Max Talbot, LaTang. Great team. Hal fucking Gill. The biggest defenseman I have ever played against in my life. Like he was huge. He was a giant man on skates. And he gets the puck in the corner. Game three. It was the first period. And I'm at the blue line. I'm like, I'm going to fucking kill how Gil. This is my time to kill how Gil I go 100 miles an hour at how how Gil and hit him dead square on like

I try and kill how Gil how Gil stands there and I bounce off of them and I'm like Thinking to myself. I think I just tore my abdominal Okay, I was dead. I I thought I tore my abdominal. I went back to myself, I think I just tore my abdominal. Okay, I was dead, I thought I tore my abdominal. I went back to the bench, Graham, our trainer, I said I tore my abdominal. I need a Toradol shot in between periods. So we go in, he gives me a Toradol shot. So is this two on the day?

This is the second one. Too quick to get a second one. All right. We lose game three, I assume I don't even fucking know. I can't even remember that finishing the game. I went into the cold tub after the game. And the moment I got into the cold tub, I felt like somebody stabbed me in our show in my shoulder. And Doc Feldman, our team doctor was four feet away and he saw it.

And the moment he saw it, he was like, get your clothes on, get him dressed, and we got to go to the hospital. And they took me to the hospital in the back of a cab. I guess that is one of the referrals of a lacerated spleen. I lacerated my spleen on that hit that I thought I was going to kill. Yeah. How Gil actually almost killed me. And I spent four days in ICU of St. Vincent's, which is not even a hospital anymore. They tore it down where a majority of the gays in New York during the AIDS crisis died in this hospital is a really like symbolic like deep hospital and I almost died in that hospital so that was the

end of the fucking season. That was like that whole run that's how hard it went it was going so hard and I had and I yeah I almost died because I had this type of laceration that it was a squirting laceration. So, we got a squirter. We had a squirter. Yeah. And they had to keep going in and cauterizing, trying to cauterize it.

You got to burn it. You got to burn it. But you can't, they could only see it when it was squirting. So they had to keep going in like four or five times over four days. Oh, yeah. Brutal. You know, the aftermath of the Avery rule game, the hockey gods said, Hey, hey, son, can I tell you one more funny story about that?

Yeah, let's hear it. I was in the ICU still and I had a friend, not even a romantic friend, a girl by the name of Mae Anderson, who was like a Danish supermodel. She was She was incredible. She is Mae was awesome. Yeah, she was with another girlfriend of mine Lauren Flynn and Jim Dolan who owns the New York Rangers and the New York Knicks Yeah, he won't let me into the stadium. Go ahead. Really? Yeah We got I got Celtics court side seats once, he won't let me into the stadium, go ahead. Really? Yeah, I got Celtics court side seats once

and he wouldn't let me go. Facial, well he's got facial recognition now, so you're fucked. So I fucked you on your server. Charles Oakley, bro. Yeah, best owner in sports, I love playing for Dolan, let me just get that straight right now. I thought you could go to the shit.

He came and visited me at the hospital. Did he? And May Anderson was sleeping in my hospital bed with me in it just like because there's no beds in there. And she's tiny. She got the she's on the end of the bed sort of like I'm almost dying. And Jim Dolan walked in and that's the scene that he walked in on. Wow. Man. Yeah, smokesokes. You guys really blew Jimbo. He had a laugh. Good sense of humor. It'd be like, it'd be like craft walking in. You got to laugh. You got it. Lighten the

mood. Lighten the mood. Lighten the mood is right. Jesus. We'll be right back after this quick break. Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarchi. And I'm Holly Frey. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact. We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective. And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom-made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaldo Lashin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued. And I'm Kara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early and often. On Tech Stuff, we travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology. One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality. How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution

can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night? Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity. So join us. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's score the game. Let's do it. Dude, you guys just saw my brain explode on here. So yeah. Name the game. Let's name the game. This is the Averill game.

Yeah. 100%. Score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Stakes, 0 to 10. Stakes of this game. Decimals OK, Sean. the game is this the greatest game of all time let's score it stakes zero to ten stakes of this game decimals okay Sean all right so Messier guaranteed a game seven win against the New Jersey Devils they went on to win the Stanley

Cup in 94 so as far as the battle of the Hudson goes it's second place. What does that mean? It's a 8? It's nice. That's a pro score. We just had Danny DeVito on the show. He's producing a show with Mark Messy about game sevens. They covered that game in it. Oh wow. Wow. Oh, I, oh yes. I've seen this. Okay. I need to watch it. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's good. Okay. I'm gonna score it a, I'll give it a 8.1. It's good. I'm going to score it a I'll give it an 8.1. It's a playoff game. There's a lot of heat there. You got a little rivalry

across town or whatever. I'm going with a 6.0 slightly Russian judgey of me. A little bit of hater. I don't know what I'm doing over here. I'm just wild. I just spray. Don't let him get off on the ground. He hates hockey. He hates hockey. Geez.

I'm a puck head. I'm a puck head. No, that's a good score. Star power, zero to 10 decimals okay. The people that played in it, maybe the people that are at it. I mean the star power. Oh yeah.

Oh. Hall of Famers. Yeah, no, this could compete with, yeah, there was Liam Neeson. We had some big Margot Robbie, I think, was at that game. If you go to wire image. Nice. I'll give it an eight point. Wire. I'll give it an eight point nine. Let me get some watermark.

Getting a good score. Star. You're in New York. Yeah. Yeah, I gave you I gave you a five. That Rangers roster is stacked. There's some legends on that. Mine's a little biased because I don't know hockey guys that well. So if I knew the amount of studs on this, as much as like...

No, eight five is nice. It's healthy. Yeah. I forgot Margot Robbie's such a big ranger fan. Yeah. Yeah. Jack had a 7.8, I had an 8.1. Nice.

The game player of the game, one to 10, decimals okay. I I mean, I want to overtime, a lot of penalties, a lot of penalties. Yeah, it was really nice. It was like Americana. I'll go an 81. I like that 85 again, because I mean, we got a fucking rule name after the game time now. Seven. I went seven for one. Now you got to you got to grade the name of the game time. Now, I went seven four. I went one. Now you got to you got to grade the name of the game.

Every rule game, AV rule game. Good. It's so cultural history. Like, people know this fucking game. You say it, man. I've told people that I'm having you on like my hockey friends. Yeah. And they go, what game you doing?

I go, I'm doing we're doing the AV rule game. He goes, oh, fuck that motherfucker. I go, I'm doing we're doing the Avery rule game. He goes, oh, fuck that motherfucker. Yeah, it's like I guess I could die knowing like, I mean, Jordan had a flu game. It was it was an identifiable game. That's this game, right? That I mean, the rule game, the constitution of hockey

passed an amendment, an executive decision to pass an amendment for this rule. Because of this game. Because of you. Yeah. And the name of this game. Yeah. Let me go, I'll go a nine one. I'll go a flat nine.

I like it. Because I brought, and my test to that is because I have like a select few hockey friends. And I just threw out, we're doing the Avery game. Oh fuck. Everyone knew it. Are these generally high scores?

This is going to be pretty good. I was an 8-2 here, again too low I think. I had an 8-5. You can't tell the history of the NHL without the Sean Avery rule That's right, baby, sir Eight so it's eight one. Where does that stack up in all the games? We've done 8.10 that puts us right here

It's gonna be our 27th game overalls just above UFC 229 could be birth McGregor and just below the 2007 Western Conference Playoffs, Game 6, Mazz versus Warriors. Mark Cuban and Dana White, good company. Listen, I'll take that. What a list. Look at that list. Holy shit.

Not enough hockey on this. We've done some games, man. We've done some games. Yeah, no, that's a very healthy spot to be in. That is actually, thank you. That's our second highest ranked, I believe, hockey game. This is a travesty here. Behind Miracle on Ice.

Miracle on Ice is four overall. Behind three Patriots games. We have no bias. No, you guys have a little bit of American bias. 100%. For sure. Not a little. That's a wild.

1,000%. When I look at that list and you got the miracle on ice at four Wow, what is a travesty here as I'm looking at this the 2011 Stanley Cup final game seven Bruins Canucks is 50th that caused a riot The riots. Yeah. Yeah But what was 2011 Mavericks versus heat? Was that a good series? Game six?

That's okay. See Mark Cuban came in here. Mark Cuban came in and scored it outrageous. Got it. He completely revamped our scoring system because of what he did afterwards. That's why we started. He gave it all 10s, he went 10s across the board.

Because it was the number one game and it was like, this isn't the number one game. Oh, fuck. He's a marketing genius. Oh my God. He made us talk about it. He broke the system. So we used to just do the score of the guess and that was it. He was fucking with the algo, bro. And then we were like, this isn't a morning game. Oh, fuck. He's a marketing genius. Oh my God. He made us talk about it. He broke the system. So we used to just do the score of the guess

and that was it. He was fucking with the algo, bro. And then we were like, okay, Jules scores, we score, he scored just to be fucked with it. Well, he knows how to do that. He knows the algo. Big brain. He's a tech guy.

That's wild, dude. That's wild. Wow. Sean, we miss anything from this game? Dude, I wish Cameo was around back then. You know how many fucking cameos I would have done? Well, they had merch outside the stadium, didn't they? They were selling a bootleg.

Yeah. And one of my friends was doing it. I see your cameo a lot. People love Sean Avery cameos. Sean Avery cameos. I just told a loving husband that he was welcoming a new child to the family. Second child. I do everything. I break up. I send divorce notices. I fucking you got anything you want cleaned up. I can do it on cameo. Yeah. So you everyone go tell you Sean Avery on cameo. Just go and watch them. They're fun to just they're very fun to watch.

I like that out. All his tick tock Instagram pages. Oh, They're fun to just watch. They're very fun to watch. You gotta check out all his TikTok Instagram pages. Oh yeah, TikTok, yeah. TikTok, what is that? Sean Avery? At I'm Sean Avery. I am Sean Avery. Fucking fun. Thanks man.

I appreciate you coming on dude. I appreciate it, thank you. Yeah, appreciate it guys, thanks, great. Ma'am. We need more hockey guys. Love my asshole. Hey, hit the We need more hockey guys. Loveable asshole. Hey, hit the nail on the head brother. Loveable asshole.

I told you. You were right. He's just, he's just unfiltered. Like if he says something, he'll say it right to your face what he believes. And no one's off limits. He keeps it under. He thinks it's right. There's some respect behind that.

I mess with it man. The person that person that could do that built a career off that Fucking pest standing on business. He's a beast. I loved him I'm trying to come to the block parties man. I'm trying to roll through I'm trying to roll through Laurel Canyon, baby. Laurel Canyon man block parties awesome property values Just went up knowing that Sean Avery's in the neighborhood keeping it safe. He keeps gosh, I Think like a hawk my guy, yeah, he

It does it does feel safe having him up there. I felt safer with him in this in the in the room here Our beef with a flake like practically squashed knowing that Sean's on our side now. Without a doubt, without a doubt. That was a fun episode. If I'm getting in like a bar fight, once Shawn on my team. Brawl. Oh, for sure. Brawl. Yeah, and the bar fight. He's getting a pool stick. He's breaking a bottle, jabbing someone like getting them in the gut.

That's how you got to do it, baby. Yeah. Hey, all is fair. The art of what do you say? Oh, sucker punch. The art do it, baby. Yeah. Hey, all is fair. The art of what do you say? Oh, sucker punch. Sucker punch. Yeah. Yeah. Maski the sucker punch. It's right. I mean, the one goalie to the one ref to the two refs. He's like, yeah, you know what? Two refs is a little tough. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Two sets of eyes out there watching you. Man, that was fun. That was awesome. Awesome. It's time for the chill zone brought to you by Coors Light. Get Coors delivered straight to your door. Visit CoorsLight.com slash GWN. Celebrate responsibly. Today we're hitting the old hotline or should we say the cold line. Again, that number is 424-291-2290 let's get into it.

Hey guys so I'm a big Patriots fan of course and I live through both dynasties and one thing that they both had in common is a reliable passing down running back. So Jules played with both Kevin Falk and James White, and then Shane Boreen was in the middle. I was wondering if you could compare and contrast them on the field and off the field. Thank you. Wow.

Little scat back love. Well, Kevin Falk was like the innovator. Kevin Falk had, we used to have a drill where you worked on your jump cuts in the off season with like ropes and shit. And we used to call it the K Falk drill because he had such a good cut back. And people don't realize he's like,

I think NC2A punt returner like holds all the records. He was a monster. I learned a lot through from Kevin through like returning punts. I remember he used to teach me early on in my career. He was he was he was like on the tail part of his career. When I was there, he was like one of the smartest players. He knew everything you could tell he's been he'd been around for a while. And he had such a pedigree. He had so many big plays. And he made a lot of big plays for us. That fourth and

two against I was a first down against Indianapolis. That was the first time that that was that was to Kay Falk. I think about and Kevin Falk was like the innovator innovator of putting the running back in the slot. He could run routes in the slot. I mean we used to have formations named after Tiger, LSU Tiger, which put the, you know, the H over in the slot. Like there was a bunch of stuff and that was because of Kevin Falk. He was kind of like the innovator of the whole thing. Shane Vareen. Hold on, before we move on from Kevin Falk,

Marshall Falk's cousin. Yeah, Marshall Falk's cousin, which Marshall Falk. Did the same thing. I mean, it's crazy. And K Falk was such an awesome veteran to be around. I loved K Falk. I owe him a lot.

I didn't know how to catch punts and shit, and Bill would like, I was I didn't know how to catch punts and shit and and Bill would like he would like in Organized team activities and mini camps and stuff He'd like walk around you and make you nervous Right right when you're catching punts and and Kay Falk would always talk me off the ledge. So I love Kay Falk Shane Varene one of my roommates one of my my favorite guys He was just he was also the one thing in common with all of these guys,

they were all really smart, smart guys, really smart football players, really great in protections because they're running back, they had, they did it, they ran a lot of routes, but they also had to like know their protections and all those guys could lay the wood and pick up those linebackers and knew the protections very well. And then James White, you know, Shane, I mean, he was just a great football player and he ended up leaving us.

But huge part of why we won in 14 had the record reception record. Yeah. And then it was beat by James White. James White. You know, you beat by James White. James White. James White, one of the best professionals, didn't say much when he talked. You knew it was somewhat important. You listened because you didn't hear him talk, which he's doing great on TV right now. He's on the Big Ten network, I believe, and he's killing it.

I love watching him, I love listening to him on social. But I think in order to play that position for us, those were all some of our smartest guys on our team. They all worked extremely hard. So they all had a lot of the same. Shout out the Money Down podcast. Money Down podcast. I think we got Money Down. Money Down.

That's that's that's James White's. Yeah. Money Down. The Money Down podcast. I think we got Money Down. Money Down. That's that's that's James White's. Yeah. Money Down. The Money Down podcast. Oh, James White, Sojourn, Shelton. That's what it is. Money Down. Hey, what's up, dawg? You can't even get me on there, dawg. Got some third downs in here, dawg.

All right. We got time for two more. Here we go. That was a good question. Hi, everyone. I'm Angela from Dallas, Texas. Longtime listener, here we go. That was a good question. Hi everyone, I'm Angela from Dallas, Texas. Long time listener, first time caller. In a few episodes, Julian has mentioned Formula One. Is he an F1 fan or in general a fan of auto racing? I think it would be great if games with names

featured a F1 race, thank you. F1 fan? I wouldn't call it like. The whole Netflix thing, you got everyone excited. I have to survive. And I loved I loved that old movie. What was it? Rush. OK, that's old. Oldish. That's 10 years old now. That's probably 10, 15 years old.

OK. When they talked about Ricky Lada and Sam Hunt. Love that story. I love race movies. I love NASCAR. I like NASCAR a little more than I like Formula One because I'm American. Okay. And it seems a little more equal.

Like the richest team in F1 always wins. I love watching those guys. I love seeing the little feuds between, what's the guy for Red Bull? In F1? Vashian, Vishken Skosh. Oh God. seeing little feuds between what's the guy for Red Bull? In F1? Vashian, Bishken Skosh? Oh God. What's the main guy?

He's like the number one guy. Verstappen. I just know that, what's his face? I got a bunch of friends that watch it and I love it. And who's Danny, Daniel? Daniel Ocardo. We have crossover, we have some mutual friends. So I know I know his story a little bit. I think that would be cool.

I would love to get a racer on just to pick their brain on how they how they like prepare. And you know, there's all these YouTube videos of like in documentaries of how these guys prepare for their reaction and stuff and actually have met in What's his Lewis Hamilton? Yeah, I met him just once a Ferrari. I think from Mercedes. Yeah, it's always it's crazy But I definitely respect those guys. Those guys are crazy. They're athletes for sure. Yeah, and I But I'm more I would say I'm more of a NASCAR guy Dirt bike guy more of a crick core trickle kind of guy Hit me no coal. He rubbed you it rubbing is racing or Angela Why don't you send us back a game or a match or a race that we should do like send us some more races I think I might do the Jap the

1979 Japan one when Ricky Lauda didn't race after his like we could do that one it's the same it's pretty much the movie it's a movie Jim Hunt had to win qualify it was a ballsy move all right last only only a you tire heads would know hey guys great episode with Howie Long. Really enjoyed it. I had a question for you. What about possibly having Steve and Ridley on as a guest? I think that would be fun. Thanks, bye.

1000%. He's been around lately. He's been around. Yeah. Yeah, we, quick fun story about me and Rid. And by the way, Howie was so fun. Oh, awesome. He makes, I feel like, you know, I have a quick fun story about me and Rid. And by the way, Howie was so fun. Awesome. He makes, I feel like, you know,

put a good performance around him. He's like a dad figure at work. You know, I feel like, you know, at this point, dad, you know, cause I have some of, I'm friends with his son. So it's like one of your boys and dads. Did they say anything after like, oh, we did okay. Clear. Haven't heard back yet. Haven't heard, me and Chris talk, but we don't I don't know

I always forget what we talk about. We gotta get Chris back in this year. We gotta hear Chris. Yeah and Kyle He's my favorite one. He's my favorite guy. I love Kai. We gotta get how we long jr. See what I don't know the Raiders sales Departments up to yeah, we got it, but getting back to rid Just had read at the house post fire two days after bring them out Probably shouldn't be going where we were going towards Palisades All of a sudden and we and people are looking at us, you know We're driving in Brentwood and and and like Santa Monica the like north of Montana people are looking at us

We have like masks on Ron fucking super 73 are looking at us, we have like masks on, we're on fucking Super 73s looking at us like we're looters. All of a sudden, we're going by two people. And I look in the corner of my eye, Rid's trying to show off and going like sidewalk, do a jump, because he's really like super motocross kind of guy. And fucking does this, I look in the corner of my eye

and I just see Ridley parallel with the side sidewalk and scoop It's it because oh He fucking fell on the bike. I was laughing so I couldn't stop laughing in front of people I'm like see we're not looters were just regular people. It was fucking crazy But yeah, we got to get rid of Leon. It'd be a real fun episode. They'll be awesome cool Great voicemails. You got to keep them coming, guys. Those are some really in depth questions. What was her name from Angela, Angela, Angela? And

then who was the we didn't get a name for the we didn't get a name for the the running back. Yeah, we need we are running backs on the show before who have we had a petri running back on the show before I don't know, but we have to we have we have some guys that we got to we have we have some guys that We got to get on we need to do that. We got a k-falk on Guys keep them coming. That was awesome. That was the chill zone Thanks to our favorite beer Coors light get Coors light delivered straight to your door by visiting Coors light comm

Gwn celebrate responsible What a game. Thanks again to Sean Avery. More hockey guys. More hockey guys. Hockey guys are awesome. And neighborhood watch guys. We've been really in contact over these fires.

He's been holding down my daughter's neighborhood while I've been over at my house holding down my neighborhood. So good to have a fellow neighborhood watch guy. Remember, subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcast, comment a game you want us to do. And remember, rate and review. Leave a five star review on Spotify.

That's a new contact. That's new. While you're there, leave it there. And remember to follow games with names on YouTube, Instagram, X, TikTok. We're still there in Snapchat. Leave a message on the old hotline [phone]. We'll see you guys next week. Games with names is a production of iHeartRadio.

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarchi. And I'm Holly Frye. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime. Each season, we explore a new theme from poisoners to art thieves. We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures

from legal injustices to body snatching. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's

shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On Tech Stuff, we travel from the minds of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok, to ask burning questions about technology, for watching.