Games with Names - The Game with Charles Woodson | Michigan vs. Ohio State (1997)

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Charles Woodson is in studio! The Michigan legend is with us to relive an epic installment in one of the greatest rivalries in sports: "The Game" Michigan vs. Ohio State from the 1997 season.  (00:00:00) We kick it off. (02:25.865) Charles joins us on the couch. (36:53.360) We go back to November of 1997. (43:44.755) We check out the rosters. (56:29.840) We dive into the game. (1:17:06) We score it. (1:25:07) We hit The Chill Zone presented by Coors Light. Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Against Tim, I remember my first time like going, you know, one-on-ones with Tim. You know, it's my first practice, man. And he runs like a triple quadruple move on me. I'm like, it's one-on-ones, man. You know what I'm like? You know, it's like my welcome to the NFL moment. And I'm like, man. Post-corner post?

Yeah, you know, I'm thinking to myself, like, if you got to do all that to beat me, man, then I must be pretty good. Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman. They're Jack and Kyler. And we are on a mission to find the greatest game of all time. And on today's episode, we are covering the Ohio State versus Michigan game, a.k.a. the game from 1997 with Heisman Trophy winner,

Hall of Fame cornerback, slash safety, and my Fox teammate, Charles Woodson. And we're talking the hate between Ohio State and Michigan. If we were 0 and 10, and we beat Ohio State, damn it was a good season. A little Brett Farr of Aaron Rogers talk. The interesting thing is that history repeated itself. A thousand percent.

And this dude can spin it. And the perks of being a Heisman winner. That's who you are. Like, that's who you're referred as. They can't take that away. from you. And then we talk about what it's like playing football on Thanksgiving and this week's chill zone

presented by Coors Light. You got to stick around to the very end. Let's go. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Turkey Day. Gobble, gobble. I'm thankful for you guys. Games with Names and The Productions of IHeart Radio. November 22nd, 1997,

Michigan Stadium, Ann Arbor, Michigan. The 94th edition of The game, and a trip to the Rose Bowl on the line. Woodson Fields the punt. He got one block and another block, and one more, he's gone. This is Ohio State versus Michigan. Welcome to Games with Names. Today we are going over the game, 1997, Ohio State v. Michigan with the goat, Charles Woodson.

Charles Woodson, in one sentence, why this game? Oh, man, this was, I think, in terms of really putting myself on the map, this was the game. This was, is this the greatest game of all time? It's the greatest rivalry in sports, Michigan, Ohio State. You don't get no better than that. It doesn't get any better, and I can't wait to dive into the game. But let's start out with this. You grew up in Ohio.

Yeah. You were Mr. Ohio in high school. Yeah. And you go to Michigan. Yeah. What the hell is that all about? Yeah, good question, man. Well, I get that question a lot, you know.

But yeah, I grew up in Northwest Ohio And my older brother His name is Terry You know, he played football He played, you know, all the other sports, baseball And he was like, to me, he was the man You know what I mean? And guess who he loved?

He loved Michigan He loved that wing helmet You know what I mean? The wing helmet, man, it gets a lot of people In the 90s especially When I was a kid, you were on this team And, like, I was in Pop Warner, and that was, like, the coolest helmet everyone bar. It was a helmet.

There's no doubt. So he loved the team. And so, you know, him being, like, the guy that I looked up to, it was like, if that's his team, that's my team. So I always grew up, you know, being a big Michigan fan. And, you know, when you grow up a Michigan fan, in my opinion, you can't like the other school. No. Because that's, like, the biggest rivalry. Like, how do you like both?

You can't. I never like today when when guys visit and they're like oh I might go to Michigan I might go to Ohio State I don't get that yeah it for me it was that's who I like now I visited Notre Dame visited Miami I could I could visit other schools but Michigan's robbery was Ohio State you know I mean so Michigan was always at the top of my list and so when I was being recruited by Michigan it was it was it was probably 95% chance I was going to Michigan 95 did the other five was at Miami after that visit in Miami? For sure. How was that? No, Miami was man. If there was ever a place that was going to change my mind. The U. It was the U. It was the U.

It was the U. But the crazy thing about the U though is that I visited down there and Dennis Erickson was the coach. Yeah. And I remember being in his office and he was like, yeah, you know, there's a lot of rumors about me leaving. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to be right here in Miami. I was like, okay, you know, I'm young. I'm 17, 18 years old, whatever. Man, before you know it, he was off to Seattle. He was like, dang, he just sat there and told me he wasn't leaving. He's coaches. You know what I'm saying?

Those coaches, man, they leave. He's coaches. But, yeah, if it was going to be anywhere else, it was going to be the U. It was going to be the U. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Man. Now, you grew up in Ohio and you were a Michigan fan. Did you like the Browns?

Were you a Browns fan? What were your proteins? I actually liked the Giants. You like the Giants? I grew up like in the New York Giants for, I mean, whatever reason. I mean, they had some. great players, but I don't know. I gravitated towards New York for some reason. Yeah. The Browns were cool. My dad was a big, big Browns fans, uh, fan. Um, Cincinnati was down the

road. I remember having a pair of Bengals tennis shoes. Okay. But I wasn't a big Bengals fan. No one was. I don't know why. My parents bought me that Bengals, those, those shoes. I don't know why, but I think that's probably pay less, bro. That's probably a pay less. One of those little shoes stores. Uh, shoe carnival, maybe. One of them. One of them. One of them. One of them.

Yeah. But yeah, Giants, Browns, a little bit. And yeah, I think that was really it. But then in terms of players, Walter Payton. Walter Payton. So I like Chicago because of Walter Payton. Walter Payton was like my favorite player. Yeah.

Growing up, yeah. Did your dad love Jim Brown? Oh, he loved it all. I mean, he loved Browns. He loved the Cleveland Indians. Like, he was, he was all Cleveland sports. I mean, back then, though, like, because he was probably young when, when the Browns,

were like winning the championships back before they were Super Bowls. Yeah, a long time ago, yeah, for sure. And like Jim Brown was God. He was the man. He was the man. He was the man. So, you know, we worked together at Fox, NFL Fox kickoff. And we always, you know, we always go over our kids videos.

Yeah. And you show me little Charles, always housing these kicks and stuff. And I hear, I hear he, did he get a scholarship from Ohio State? I'm just saying. You know what? Take my microphone out. I'm out of this joint, man. I'm out of here.

Yeah, man. He's 16th, you know, junior in high school, playing well. He's gotten a bunch of offers. None from the school, you just said. I'm just saying, Ohio State, if you try to get back out. They're probably like, man, we can't get that kid. You know what I'm saying? But, no, he's doing good, man.

I'm coaching. Had a game last night. How we did? You know, it was, at first, man, we had to fight through some adversity early on. Team went on like a 15-play drive to start the game off and scored on us. And it was like, oh, man. But we weathered the storm, you know, end up winning the game. I think 30 to 13 it was.

Some guys had to step up and make big plays. You know what I mean? Did you just say 30 to 13? 30 to 13. Jesus, 15-play drive start? Early, man. It was like, bad. It was like, you know how the NFL, you know, the coaches have those 15 play.

He was right to get him up the script. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, right down the field. I'm like, oh, yeah, I was, I was, I got a little tight over there on the sideline. Hey, what kind of coach are we? You know what? I'm trying to, I'm trying to do better in terms of controlling my emotions on the sideline. Yeah, I get a little heated sometimes and I never wanted to be that guy. Yeah.

You know, slinging headsets and things like that. I didn't want to be that guy. But I find myself every now and then, man. You're that guy. I mean, you know what I mean? Well, you know, I don't even have a son, but the most, the closest you get to the feeling you had when I was playing at least is when I see my kid do something awesome when that she's been working hard. And you have a son doing the same shit that we did. Yeah.

So I can only imagine your juices are flooring. Oh, man. Always. And then not only that, man, you know, I play for the Raiders, man. And we got a lot of bad calls, you know, some no calls. What are you talking about? Some overturn calls. We got a lot of bad calls, man.

You know, we don't have to get into that. You know, maybe we'll say that for later. We'll save that for later. But, man, when there's a miss call by a ref or a bad call, man, it really, I think I have like, PTSD, PTSD, man. You probably, I think I do, man.

And I, dude, I just, I lose it, man. You know what? Can you guys imagine you roll up here? You're a high school ref, right? It's Friday night. You're going there. You're coming from your other job. You're doing this for, you got a DUI,

so you have to give some hours. You rode your bike to the... You rode your bike. You go and you see the head coach on the other teams, Charles Woodson, the greatest fucking

defensive football player of all time and he's motherfucking. You think, how does that ref feel? It's like mighty ducks. Hopefully it's motivation, man. Make the right car.

What do you mean? Come on, man. Come on, man, you know? Man. That's hard. It's tough. We were,

uh, we were watching a lot of your highlights. And, Man, you were so good around the ball. You used to steal the ball from guys. You jumped the routes and you'd come over top. I mean, I remember you taking one from Megatron. Didn't you come over the top of them?

That was a, I think that was a tight end. Tight end. That was a tight end. Yeah, that was another route. But you got one on Megatron, too. Got one there, yep, yep. But, yeah, a little stick route. Stick route.

You know, in zone coverage. I've been wanting to pick that route off for so long, too. Yeah. And, you know, finally made a, he had it, actually. He did. And you stole it from him. Yeah. But I've been wanting that route, that stick route, man.

And I finally got it. So you played for the Raiders. You get drafted to the Raiders. What was your, what was your first initial thought becoming an Oakland Raider? My first initial thought was, man, I was happy that I got drafted where I got drafted because, you know, you never really know. know, you think you're going to go high, all, you know, all of the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the team may move out of a spot. This team may move up, move back. So, you really don't know until your name is called. So, initially, it's like, man, I'm going, going to the Raiders, like, that's cool, but I don't really necessarily know the Raiders. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, they, they have the late game. I grew up in the Midwest, so, you know, they come on late, you know, by the time they come on,

and I'm outside playing football with the buddies or something, you know, by the time they come on. But, you know, once you get out there, immediately, you know, you start understanding the Raiders. You know, you got Willie Brown there. Of course, Al Davis,

but Willie Brown is the first person that really kind of, I would say, took me in and showed me what the Raiders was all about. He was the reason why. I ended up wearing 24. Yeah. Because I first got there, I wanted 21. Eric Allen came over from the Saints.

He got 21. And so when I got there, there was a couple of other numbers left. And I was like, I don't know which number I'm going to wear. And Willie was like, you're going to wear 24. It was like, oh, all right. Willie Brown said you got to go. There it is. He said I got to wear 24, so it was 24.

But yeah, once you get there, man, it's great after great. great after great, you know, Willie Brown, you got Cliff Branch, Freddie Blitnikoff was on the staff, Jim Otto worked with the Raiders, George Atkinson, like dude, it was the great, and they was always around. Always around. Always around, you know what I mean? So they brought me in, man, welcomed me. We always had throughout the years just great relationships with all those Raiders great greats man so once I actually stepped into Alameda where we practiced and was around the Raiders then it was like yeah this is where I'm supposed to be yeah now give me your first give me your your favorite memory of Al Davis because I loved Al Davis growing up just the the flare

he had the glasses I was a Niners fan but he was he was the he was the grimy raider guy that was just like crazy he was the man he was a man uh well the man my My best memories probably is, is Al would, myself and Daryl Russell, you know, may rest in peace, a good friend of mine when we were with the Raiders, Al would, he would give us tickets to Lakers games. And one time we went to the Raiders game, I mean to the Lakers game, we fly down, we meet him at a hotel, I think maybe in, I don't know where this hotel was at a long time ago. get in the car

we're driving to the game you know it's packed outside we're reving through traffic and so we get out of this car and Al's got to pick us pick tickets up at wheelcall and the line is I don't know how long

it's like half a mile long you know I'm exaggerate but it's a long line and so we're looking at the wheel call and then you know Daryl are looking at each other like damn that's a long line we're gonna stand in line

where we're Al Davis get out the car we walk so we're walking past all these people Al Davis walks up to the window people kind of looking Al Davis

tickets for Al Davis gets his tickets and man Daryl were like damn that's Al fucking Davis like that and nobody said a word I was like that's not

that's how you do it he just had swag oh that Al was a man though same you know either a white jogging outfit black glasses on

and just he just moved like a gangster dog but that's that's just what it was man did you did you smell his clone everyone always talks about his clone oh well you knew when he walked outside in practice yeah I was here yeah you could smell you already know it you already knew it was it like

it was very musky probably like old old man musk yeah I don't know how you describe it wasn't there like but you knew brute it was probably like brute like after shave you know what I mean some brute after shave because he shaved every day? Yeah. No, it was definitely strong, man.

You know, I definitely can't describe it. But when you're out of practice, man, you could be doing whatever, and it's like, oh, yeah, Al's here. I was here. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You smell them. Yeah, no doubt.

Man, so you go to the Super Bowl with the Raiders. How was, but you go to the Super Bowl without Gruden. Let's get into Gruden. How was Gruden as a coach? Was he a great coach? Gruden was a great coach, man. Very intense. I mean, you guys see him on television all the time.

He's been, he was the same way then as he is right now. I always got that little scrunchy face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the hardest worker, you know, that you were ever going to find, you know, used to see all those videos of him in the office. We early, you know, hours of the morning, that was him all the time. But he came in, man, and immediately things started to change. My first year was his first year.

They were coming up, losing seasons. You can see things starting to turn around and built that team up, you know, through some other players that we got through free agency and that sort of thing. And, man, we were good. Yeah. We were good. And we missed the opportunity going back to that call. One of those calls I was talking about.

What call? You know, a certain call. But that team was a great team. Right. And then we lose that game, and then he's traded at Tampa. What was the fucking, what's the locker room like after you hear that your coach gets traded? Dude, I didn't know you could do that. I had no clue a coach could get traded.

And I got a phone call, and I was like, hey, man, you hear that your, Grooton got traded. And I was like, who? They're like, Grootin, the coach. I'm like, I don't even understand what you're talking about right now. What do you mean the coach got traded? And so it was just the biggest shock in the world that we had just, you know, gotten to, you know, the playoffs, feeling good about that season. All right, we lost the game.

Got it. We're going to move on next season. We'll be back again with our whole roster, our coach, and all of a sudden the guy that's orchestrating this thing is out the door. Out the door. Yeah, that was crazy. And then you play him in the Super Bowl the next year. And we'd turn around and play him in the Super Bowl.

And he knew you guys? You guys changed it up. The Callahan changed it up enough? Yeah, he knew us. But I think there's a few things, man. You know how the saying goes if something can go wrong? It will. Murphy's Law.

Murphy's Law. So that year, the season was, things got back there because of 9-11. So playoffers came around. round and it pushed everything back so we didn't have two weeks from the championship game to the Super Bowl. You'll have one. So right after the championship game, we're packing up, we're flying down to San Diego for the game.

And then during that week, late in that week, I started the center, you know, the story. He, I don't know, he, Tijuana and didn't make it back or whatever happened. And so starting centers out of the game, you know what I mean? Crazy. Yeah, crazy. So, I mean, it wasn't enough time to adjust. If we had another week, I feel like, you know, it's a different outcome. But for all those things that happen, that just, it threw us off, man.

That's crazy. The guy goes to Tijuana Super Bowl week. And it's not even like you have two weeks. No, any two weeks, man. It was like Friday, Phil's the Friday night, Saturday, somewhere around there. It's like really close to game time. Yeah. And so you hear in these whispers, hey, what?

Barrett did, what, who, when, today, right now? Yeah, he's not playing. Oh, man. And Bear is the, he's the baddest dude in the league, center. I would go to bat any day that, against anybody that was playing at the time, he was the best center in football. Wow. And, you know, not being biased, because he,

was the teammate and you know that was a bad dude so to lose him that was a that was a devastating loss for us yeah that's that's i was going to ask you the wildest raiders story that's probably it i mean to be fair t-1 is not that far from san diega no yeah it's only just don't know during that time you know after you win the super bowl you can do it you can do it go wherever you want to go who is your ultimate raider other than you because you were like ultimate raider like my my time Ultimate Raider I guess it's got to be Tim Brown

Tim Brown Tim Brown's Ultimate Raider I think probably Yeah I think probably the fans would say that too But yeah During during my time

I would say man Tim Brown was He was Mr. Raider You got to play with Tim Brown and Jerry Rice That was crazy when they played together Oh it was nuts You know

Think about me I grew up Of course, in Ohio, but I remember, you know, growing up there and watching the Super Bowl and watching Jerry Rice against the Bengals, Super Bowl, you know, I always tell people, it's like, when you're watching those games as a kid, you know, you might have dreams of making it to the NFL, but you don't think you'll ever catch those guys, being in the league at the same time as those guys. Yeah.

Because Jerry Rice, he's catching touchdown Super Bowl. Then all of a sudden, you know, you walk in the locker room, and there's Tim Brown. It's like, damn. I'm in the same locker room on the same team with Tim Brown. A couple years later, here comes Jerry Rice. Like, the God, the goat? Like, in the same locker room, I'm, like, on the same team with Jerry Rice? You got to be kidding me.

He was still moving back then? What? I know. He had, like, did he have 1,000 yards at 40? Man, Jerry was still balling, man. Yeah. Yeah, he was still balling. Yeah, he, after us, he went on to, like, Seattle was bawling.

Went to the playoffs? Yeah. Then he went to Denver. Jerry was the real deal, man. What about Janikowski? Was he that drunk always? He had his moments. He had his moments, but I mean, we all did, man.

We hung, man. It was in our scouting report when we played you guys. Our special teams coach would be like, this guy, he loves the vodka, he'll kick it right down the middle. Like he was in the scouting report that Sebastian Janikowski was full raging alcoholics. Yeah, no, man. Janos, he played hard. Yeah.

Yeah, on and off the field, for sure, for sure. What was it like practicing against Jerry and Tim? Against Tim, I remember my first time, like, going, you know, one-on-ones with Tim. You know, it's my first practice, man, and he runs like a triple quadruple move on me. I'm like, this, it's one-on-ones, man, you know what I mean? You know, it's my, you know, this is like my welcome to the NFL moment. I'm like, man, but... The triple post, corner post?

Yeah, you know, I'm thinking to myself, like, if you got to do all that to beat me, man. then I must be pretty good. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, those guys made you better, man. Jerry Rice was, you know, you always heard the stories about Jerry, about how hard he worked. And that was real. I mean, that was as advertised.

Like, if you went up against Jerry in one-on-ones, and you jammed Jerry, you just going to have to line up immediately the next plane. You were going to have to do it again. Like, you weren't just going to have him defeated on the football field. catch the ball he was going to sprint you know what i'm saying 30 40 yards whatever it was so playing against those guys man they they were they were excellence you know so you know you can't help it get better when you're around those guys they were true true professionals you love that offhand

jam didn't you i love the quick jam i've seen your quick jam a bunch i tried to have a few things in my my repertoire who was susceptible as a receiver to get the the quick jam and your feet were staggered every time so I would have read it yeah well you you probably would have read it but you probably would have read wrong but usually usually the bigger guys bigger guys and then I mean if you're on if you're on the line of scrimmage then that would be that would be the guy the guy's off the ball I mean some of you guys man you lining up in the back field trying to get away from the jam man you know what I mean yeah you should be good should be penalties called on some of you guys as far back as you guys are lined up.

This ain't Canada. Yeah, that's what you guys. That's what you're doing. I'll be looking at the ref like, Ruff. Is this guy playing receivers or is he a halfback? I mean, what are we doing? What's going on? Yeah, so you're offensive guys.

You guys get away with everything. We do. We sell the tickets, buddy. You guys win the championships. We sell the tickets. Okay. So who is the toughest cover? for you in your career?

Marvin. I was at Marvin Harrison. Marvin Harrison. Yeah, Marvin, man. Quiggas lightning. Quiggas lightning. You know, and I played him a couple times when I was, you know, I think my rookie year and my second year, played him in Indy.

So we played him on the turf. He's dying with Peyton Manning. And, you know, Marvin was, I always joked that Marvin was, you know, he was going to line up on the defense's left, offense is right, and that's where he was going to be. Yeah, damn it, and that's what it was. You know, it wasn't a whole lot of motion in, trying to get him open and all that stuff. You have to line up, you have to play Marvin head up.

And, I mean, to me, he had it all. He was, you know, he was fast, he was quick. He ran good routes. Elite hands. Elite hands, in and out of his brakes, you know, good. So I feel like, you know, just coming into the league and playing against him, you know, that was, I would say, you know, before I was see. I would say that was the best guy I played against. And he always seemed to be comfortable in the uncomfortable.

Yeah. Like for a small guy, he used to get back shoulders and he would play fade ball with the best of them. And he was like 5'8. Everything. I mean, short routes, intermediate routes, deep routes, seven routes, overroutes, you know, whatever. He had it all.

Like you had to cover all the routes with him. Maybe in like five years, six years we'll have another Marvin Harrison-Charles-Witson rematch. Oh man, how about it? With the sons. How crazy would that be?

That'd be sick. Oh, man. Yeah. I like the sign of that. But he's bigger than his dad. Yeah, he is. He'd be a different matchup. And your kid looks just like you on the field.

He's like the same body. Same body type. It'd be like me in Megatron. Like Megatron was like that. Megatron's. Was he hard to cover, Megatron? Yeah, because, you know, he, for one, he was six, four, six, four, five, whatever he is. So, you know, he's got that, you know, that long catch radius, tall.

He could run. And he's a big dude. He wasn't like a, you know, slender dude. So he was a big dude as well. So, you know, he was one of those guys that, you know, if he got that step on you, then, you know you're not recovering and he's never covered even if he's covered because he's so big yeah yeah like you said yeah like I said that they catch radius man up wide yeah it's hard to stop who's the favorite quarterback to pick off favorite to pick off um well it didn't come till late my

career I picked off Peyton my my last year in the NFL so um I had to say that was the favorite because that's I mean it's Peyton pay man yeah you got Tom I probably I dropped maybe two or times interception. One of them I would have scored, too, and I'm still mad about that. And you know he, but he sent me the video one day. He was like, man, I gave you one. Oh, man, I had it too, man.

He would have been smiling at him like he did Brian Greasy, wouldn't he? Running down to feel like, I got your ass. Yeah, man. He laid it up there so nice for me too. And then I dropped it. Yeah. So it's so crazy. You got to play for, like, one of the cornerstone franchises of the NFC, the Raiders.

And then you go and get to play with, like, probably the most prestigious franchise with the Packers. How was that transition? To me, I feel like it came out of nowhere because it was never on my radar. Leaving Oakland, you know, I, you know, went into free agency. got franchised twice and I went into free agency and you know I'm thinking I'm gonna kind of have my pick you know places to go and man it was it was dry out there for you boy man yeah and so um groom was in Tampa and then our GM Bruce Allen went down to Tampa and so I was like man that's that's got to be they're gonna bring me in you know at some point and then that didn't happen

I was like damn you know I must be damaged goods out here or something you know and then Green Bay, they started, you know, they were calling my agent. They were like, hey, man, we want to get Charleston for a visit. I'm like, man, I'm like, dude, I never even told you to call Green Bay. You know, they were like, man, they want you to come visit. And so when everything kind of was drying up, I was like, dang, I got to go see what Green Bay is talking about. And so eventually, you know, that ran its course and I signed with Green Bay.

And, you know, started off, you know, rocky as hell, man. because I really, I didn't want to be there, man. And mentally, I still couldn't shake the fact that I didn't have my pick of places to go. Yeah. That, it bothered me. And so it took a while for me to, you know, get myself comfortable. I always give a lot of credit to George Coons, who used to play with the Packers. He was there.

He had a role within the organization. And, you know, we just, we hung out a lot, man. He would introduce me to different people in the Greenback community. he ended up, I think he took a job down to Milwaukee, so then I started kind of getting down to Milwaukee and just kind of feeling my way around Wisconsin a little bit. And then finally I was able to kind of settle down. Yeah. And then I was able to kind of appreciate where I was at. Yeah. You know, the history of the franchise. And once that happened, then I, then I started making plays. And then it was like, oh, I'm good now. And it was fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for

sure. How was a Lambeleap? I never, I never did the Lambele leap? No. I had a plan. What was the plan? I had a plan. I was one interception return for a touchdown away from being the all-time leader. And that was going to be when I did it. And they let me go. They let you go.

He let me go, man. So I didn't get the LAMBO league. Six years, consecutive years with the pick six. Six years, yeah. NFL record. Six years span. You know C. Woods getting. a sixer. Put it in the

books. That's crazy. Put in the books. Now, what was that transition from Farve to Rogers like? How crazy was that? This guy's easy retiring. Is he not? Is he here? Is he not? We got young bug this. What was that all about? The interesting thing is that history

repeated itself. 1,000% with Aaron. Yeah, it was it was kind of crazy because it was, you know, the last, well, I got there in 06, Brett's there, And it was, talks about whether he was going to play again after that year, then 07 happened.

And it's like, what's he going to do? So every year you kind of, you know, is dangling around. He's going to retire. He's coming back. But during that time, 06, you know, I'm practicing against this young kid in practice every day. And this dude, this dude can spin it. Spin it. Yeah, he can spin it.

And so, you know, we had our battles just in practice. And so you got a, you got a, you know, that up-close look at a young kid who's, you know, figuring it out. But, man, every day, man, he's just getting better and better and better and better. And so by the time 2007 comes around and, you know, Brett's, it's looking like Brett's going to be, you know, on his way out that next year. Oh, in the locker room, it's like, are we straight? We're straight.

Oh, yeah, we got our guy. Yeah, we don't have no issue. If you're going to leave, going to another team, whatever you're going to do, we got 12. We're good. Wow. He's that, I mean, that's what you heard from, like, the chiefs with Alex Smith and Patrick. And Patrick were homes. Like, they're all like, yeah, we'll see you guys. Yeah. Yeah, we're winning. We're good. But if this guy happens to move on, we might be better. And you knew he was going to be that good. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Without a doubt. In practice, he was just lighting him up. He, you know, he'd make throws in practice. That's great.

Pin, pinpoint accurate passes, you know, with heat on them, with precision. And, you know, sometimes you just be there and you be like, wow. Like, damn, he's the backup. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because Brett threw a fucking hard, a fun ball too. Yeah. Brett broke a lot of fingers in this time.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you go to the Super Bowl, you finally get your Super Bowl. And you have a great past breakup, break the collarbone. But she gave the half-time speech I heard. What was the half-time speech? Well, it was, you know, it didn't come out quite the way I would have wanted it to. You know, just because, man, you know, I'm sitting in that x-ray room, man.

And I saw the picture. Like, if it's any other injury, I'm playing that second half. I'm not sitting out of game you know what I mean it's got to be really bad for me not to play the game yeah soupy man I saw that picture on the screen

and my bone was looking like this I said oh my god so I go into the bathroom stalls man I'm just in the bathroom just man crying I'm like man I can't believe this man Super Bowl I remember Greg Jennings you know he came and he's open the door

he's praying like man he's praying I'm like man I didn't want to hear none of that you know what I'm saying but I always appreciated that. And then when the coach is calling us up to go back out after halftime, I was like, coach, man, can I say something?

And he was like, man, Charles, come on in. And, you know, I wanted to say something like really profound. You know how it is, man. But all I could get out was, man, you guys know how much I want this. Man, go out there and get it done. Basically is what I said. And I couldn't hold back the tears.

dude I was I was devastated yeah yeah and but shit hey they went out there and handled business man and got the thing done and you're a huge part of the reason why they were even there man that and people don't realize the collarbone that that hurts oh my goodness you can't like that's a painful injury right away yeah every little every little twitch every time every time you get up you you're putting that pressure on it like slow slow moving yes that's a tough that was tough how is the parade cold cold Yeah, it was cold. So we had that in the stadium, actually.

So most people, you know, parade, you're on a bus or whatever. You're riding through. Ours was in Lambeau Field, and it was freezing cold. Freezing. Yeah, freezing. I'm out there in my sling. Yeah, but it was all good. Stadium's packed.

We celebrate it. That was awesome. Yeah, yeah. That was a freaking awesome win. We'll be right back after this quick break. May 24th, 1990, a pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Barry's car. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.

In season two of Rip Current, we ask, who tried to kill Judy Barry and why? She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. The man and woman who were heard had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area, but more than it was the culture. It was the way of life. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement.

Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did. why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering,

we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he would have this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History,

The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If one of us wins, we all win. I'm Ashley Reifeld, and I'm the host of the women's skateboarding podcast. Good luck with that. Good luck with that is a skateboarding podcast that is part cultural record, part news brief, mostly group therapy, and a place to talk about the past, present, and future of women and gender expansive skateboarding.

This week, me and my co-host, Nora Vasconcelos, and Alex White, we have Bobiana Delphino on the show, a professional skateboarder from Florida whose grit was forged in a family of athletes. Tune in to hear how she broke into the boys' club, what it takes to be pro, and why just being grateful you're here shouldn't be the price of entry.

Maybe the industry thinks that we just started skating five years ago because that's when they maybe started paying attention. It's a no-fluff conversation about putting in the years, stacking clips and receipts, and still having to prove your worth while the industry catches up. You break down the door, sick now, like, hold the door for everyone. We created good luck with that because we want to share our experience of existing an industry

that wasn't always built for everyone. So listen to good luck with that on IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Lines and Times with Spencer Graves on the IHart Radio app is a podcast designed for hunters and fishermen to enjoy success. I like the idea of like, hey, put me on a big deer. You know, hey, there's a big deer out here. He's doing this.

Be looking for this deer. But I also love doing it on my own. I love going out there and saying running my cameras. I love pattering. a deer I like showing up at the right time checking the win knowing what stand I need to be in and then whenever it all comes together and it happens that's the most satisfying thing ever so when you do it on your own it's like I then can hang my hat but if I had somebody say hey pull up on these dots and catch them right here and you're going to win and then when I go win it's like yeah that's cool I won the tournament the ultimate goal is done but it's like dude I when you find them and you make them bite that's the fault I love it. Listen to Lines and Tines with Spencer Graves on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms, and welcome back to Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups.

On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Yeah. Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player. who still wore knee pads. Yes.

It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snap-Fu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's jump into the next segment. Let's go back to November 22nd, 1997, where this game took place. And let's go over some pop culture.

Number one movie was Mortal Kombat, number one song, Candle in the Wind by Elton John. What? That was then? Yeah, Princess Diana died. Oh, Princess Diana died. Do you remember that? I remember her dying.

I remember that song. Yeah. The candle in the wing. Good, good, yeah. Flubber came out, Starship Troopers. Pretty good. Starship troopers. Hey, I know how you are with the teleprompters.

I, I get it, man. I get it. You get it. You get it. You get it. Titanic came out. Goodwill hunting. Do you like apples? How you like them apples? How you like them? See, Charles got it. He got it. There you go. Super Bowl champions were Denver Broncos MVP. Co. Co-Mvys. They were doing this back in the day, which is weird. Brett Favre and Barry Sanders, still probably both deserving. No doubt. Heisman trophy winner, Charles Woodson.

Let's go. How was that? Went in a Heisman trophy. Really the only defensive player to do it because Travis Hunter, he played a whole lot of offense. Yeah, he's a lot of offense. Yeah, I dabbled and dabbled over there. That's what I tell people. But yeah, man, you know, it's one of those, you know, when you're a kid, you're like, yeah, I'm going to win the Heisman. And so when I went to college, coming off of, you know, high school where I was running back, I was all offense and chose to play defense just because I had issues playing running back. Man, you take a beating on your knees.

I was like, I ain't going to last like that. So playing defense. So once I moved to defense, you know, you kind of, the Heismans kind of out of the question. Nobody wins the Heisman on defense. And so I remember after my freshman year, Ammani Tumor had left, Mercury Hayes had left. And so we had some young guys at receiver.

And I was like, coach, man, what do you think about me playing a little bit of receiver too? I was like, all right, well, check it out. So I played a little bit in spring ball. And it was like, okay, we might have something. So now I was getting some reps on offense. And so once that happened, and then I got into my third year, by my third year, my defense was, I had the defense thing on lock. Like, I knew I was the best player in the country. That's how I felt.

But then to have that little bit of offense sprinkled in there, I was like, oh, we might be back in the mix for this. Yeah, it might be back in the mix. And so, yeah, season, you know, plays out. And then there was a couple of crucial moments. One was the one-hand catch in at Michigan State. And then that was like the kind of the, that was the moment that where the eyes really kind of was like. Oh, wow. Okay.

And then Penn State. Penn State, what would we do there? Penn State. I had one catch for a touchdown. 37 yarder. 37 yarder. Drew Vicious was the receiver, so I matched up with him all game.

We blow him out. I don't know, 30-something to maybe six or something. I don't know. But we blew him out. So that was another moment. And then after that game, they asked me the media asked me

if I thought I was the best player in the country and I say yes and then we go on and then this game comes around and then this game and this was a Heisman moment this was a Heisman moment we'll get into that game

34 8 huh 34 8 34 8 what was on did you have did you have a walk man back then before the games did you guys did you guys have tape players or would you have yeah yeah what were you putting on the tape cassette play player because that's an old joke

by the way. Hold on. Say that again? This is me old joking because you guys had, I was an MP3 player kid. I was an iPad kid. Okay. Yeah, you slipped one in. I was a kid. You weren't an iPad kid. No, I wasn't iPad kid. Yeah, actually I did have a little.

What was, what was on the pregame list? Tupac. Tupac. Tupac always. Yeah, it was going to be Tupac. Tupac. All lies on me. All lies on me. Me Against the World Um Yeah

So anything Tupac man I was playing I see the biggie down there I play biggie too But Tupac was always The favorite Um

Master P No limit Anything Anything And then no Yeah man P was P was the one

Master P was so cool that Yeah No limit Yeah All that Yeah Remember didn't he have Like a hoop league

And little Romeo Had his little He had his son had his little TV show at this time, I think. I thought Pete tried out for Toronto, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Pete was a man.

What was it like being the big man on campus in 1997? Like at Michigan. I went to Kent State, which is kind of almost like a satellite school. Yeah. Like, you guys had real school. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, man, I tried to keep a low profile. Do you have a bodyguard?

Yeah, two of them. Do you have two bodyguards there? no yeah yeah i kept a low profile man i tried to stay out the way you know what i tried to yeah this next question we ask all our our our interviews uh how much does the school pay you um i don't remember was there a pay cut your rookie year it's some somewhat uh look yeah no i plan i didn't make any money in school man i wish i would i wish i would have I wasn't one of those guys, man. They got the money.

I don't know, bro. We won't get into that. This is a glazed podcast, but we know Charles Woodson was definitely getting cheddar back at Michigan. I got the little $15 chits like everybody else. What is that? You got the little cars they give you where you can go to certain restaurants, 15 bucks you can order.

Oh, yeah. That's it. That's all we have, man. It's all the half. I made $50 from a booster by helping a kid move in. His kid move in. I thought I was like, hell yes. Isn't it just working a job?

Yeah, it was pretty much working a job. That was working a job. Nice little Chris, 50 bucks. Nice 50. All right, let's jump into this game, Kyler. Break it down. So this is a 10 and 3 Ohio State team. They were the 10th.

This was the 10th year of the John Cooper era. Open the year ranked 9th, got as high as number 4. This was one of those years where they split quarterback duties going between both. Joe Jermaine and Stanley Jackson. Antoine Winfield was on this team. He was their lone All-American. There's also a great year for David Bonson and 14 touchdowns and almost a thousand yards.

Antoine was a bad boy. He was. He was Vikings, right? Vikings, yeah. And his son, look, his son's a little baller. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. What was, what do you remember from this Ohio State era? I remember that my first two years, my freshman and sophomore year,

we were, I think we had lost. three games two games going into this game or three and they were always undefeated and so the tables had flipped this 97 year yeah we were undefeated so we beat them both my freshman year and my sophomore year when they were like all world everybody thought they were going to run through us win a national championship we beat them up both years and so now that that pressure has shifted because now we were the one that was that was undefeated. So that was the thing that I remember most about it because this was, you know, this is my third year in college and I knew, man, that I had to get to the Rose Bowl because that's what the Big Ten was all

about getting to the Rose Bowl. One of us had to go through the other one, whether it's Michigan and Ohio State, had to go through the other one to get to that game. And it was like, man, we got to get this one done got it got to get it done now what do you hate most about ohio state i don't know if there's like a a thing it's just that's the rivalry i feel like i was just born in it you were born you know what i mean and it's you're like a day walker in blade is that what is it well you're from ohio but then you went to michigan but i can walk around in the daytime and night walkers the vampire that can go out he can go in the daytime right yeah yeah you're like So when I'm at home, I can go out because I...

Because you're from Ohio. But I won out three years. So, yeah, I am a day walk. Can you put a perspective how big this game is between Ohio State and Michigan? Like, do you guys talk about this all year long? Yeah, this game is every practice, there's a wrinkle that's put in that's got to deal with Ohio State. So you're always working on something that there's... doing. So after we've worked on, let's say we're playing

Indiana's a hot team right now, right? Let's say we're playing Indiana next week. We're game playing for Indiana but then there's going to be a period where we're going to break off and it's going to be something that they do. So all year long, you know, you're building up into your data banks, something about that team that they do. So it's, you know, we always say man, if we were 0 in 10 and we beat Ohio State

that damn it was a good season good season you know what I'm saying so you got to win this game your coaching staff is like watching tape on like every single Ohio State game preparing for the final always there's always and you know they're doing the same thing down there like there's always

there's somebody on the staff responsible for hey give us something that they're doing and then we're going to you know whether it's five or ten minutes in practice this is what they're doing down there in Ohio State So we got to, yeah, it's always, always preparing for that team. Yeah, man.

Yeah. That's a rivalry. That's rivalry. Before we move on, talk to me about David Boston. Man, they was a beast, man. I remember, I remember this particular game, you know, we're in pregame warm-ups, and he's walking out of the tunnel. And dude's jacked.

Yeah. And he walks out of the tunnel. he's got no sleeves on no gloves you know it looks like he's put vaseline on his arms he's and guys walked around me like damn you got to guard him today you know what's saying because that's that's how he kind of walked out of the tunnel like damn who is this guy but he was the man he was he was he was he was he was all world man i mean big he could he could run um yeah set all kind of you know little records down there, you know, but he was the rivaled.

He was arriving. He was in the way. It didn't matter. He was in the way. He was in the way. Let's jump into these Michigan Wolverines. 12 and O Michigan Wolverines were led by Lloyd Carr in just his third season at Michigan. Start of the year ranked 14th, finished the year ranked one.

This team is stacked 31 future NFL players in the roster. Ryan Greasy at quarterback, Tom Brady backing him up. But this team was defined by their incredible defense led by Charles Woodson. They gave up an average of 8.9 points per game that was best of the nation. Some other all-Americans.

Jermaine Tooman, Charles Woodson and Glenn Steele. Jeremy, yep. What are you looking at at this right here? What are you thinking about? When you look at all these. I was just thinking about what he said. Our defense was stingy, man.

Our defense was good, man. We had some guys on the, you see the name, Glenn Steele there, relentless pass rusher. um tough as nails germy to me see all-american tight-in you know whenever we needed a big play a lot of times in a passing game it was going to be german germany tooman you know our our offense was always built on running the ball tight in and uh germany was a big part of that um but yeah i think

just our defense man i it was fun yeah it was fun because we i mean we went out we went out in every game, man, with so much confidence that you couldn't move the ball on us. That's how we walked on the field with that kind of confidence, man. And we, yeah, it was fun, man. Is this the best college defense of all time? I think we're, I think we're up there for sure. Who rivals you guys? Well, you know, Nebraska had a good defense. You know, they were the, I think they what they called the black shirt defense they were called

for a minute they were good Miami's defense in 2001 I believe that team with all the all American and NFL players

they had on that team Ed Reed's on that team oh man yeah those dudes those dudes were tough so I mean there's a few of those are the ones I can think of

but we were definitely one of the best for sure how do you sum up this team probably you know Our coach, Coach Lloyd Carr early in the year,

he, kind of the theme for our team was, you know, reaching the mountain top. I may be saying it wrong with something like that. But, but it was, the story was,

the story of the guy who climbed Mount Everest. And so, Sir Edmund Hillary. Say it again? Sir Edmund Hillary was the first person to climb Mount Everest. I don't, Don't quote me. I don't know if that's the name.

Could be. Could be, could not be. I don't know. But it was about, you know, reaching that mountain top. And, you know, along the way, there's going to be a lot of obstacles along the way trying to get up there. A lot of people trying to knock you down. Mentally, your mind's going to, you know, place some tricks on you at times. But you just got to keep picking at it.

We got these pickaxes. I don't know if that was a smart thing to do to give us all pickaxes. He literally gave you guys all pickaxes. We got these pickaxes, man, like real, real pickaxes. And so, you know, that was symbolized, man, you know, keep climbing. Keep climbing. No, no matter, you know. So you guys all had a pickax in your locker.

Pickax, man. You still got it? We got to get a pickax. We're putting a pickax on the wall. I don't know where is that. For amazing, amazing blue pickax. Amazing blue pickax. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we got that, man. So I think that would, that would sum up what our team was, you know, Because, you know, throughout the year, everything's not going to go perfect. You know, we were down to Iowa, I think, 14-0. And Tim Dwight, like, ran, like, two pump returns back on us. I'm crazy like that. Timmy Dwight. Yep.

And so we had to come back. White Lightning. Come back and win that game, I think, maybe 24, 28, maybe, or 24-21. Something like that. But that's just kind of the way the season goes. And it fit right in with his theme, you know, for the year. And so that's what I would say about that team. And we reached him out on top.

After that Iowa game, you were like the pickax was there. Yeah, we're ready. We had to pick up. We cloned, baby. What was young Tom Brady like? You got to go against him a lot and probably scout team, right? Yep, yep. Went against Tom, man.

Tom was, well, Tom was my year. So we always, you know how it is. When you come in with your group, you want your guy to play. Yeah. You know who's there. Like Brian Greasy was there. dry spot was there but you know anybody from our group

we're like man you should be playing man you should be playing I should be starting yeah you should be starting but you know he was always just he was steady you know what I'm saying

he was he was back up he was he was he was paying his dues you know what I mean yeah he was paying his dues but he but he always had he always had the talent you know what I'm saying

so we saw that now whether or not he should Should have been starting at whatever, but we knew he could play. And we didn't know he's going to go and do the stuff he did with you guys. But yeah, but he was good, man. How was greasy? Grease, Grease was a, he was a gamer. He was a gamer, man.

Yep, he was a gamer. I mean, that game I was talking about the Iowa game, man. He had to get out of the grasp of, I think a defensive end, spin the round, and then end up throwing a touchdown to Jeremy Tooman. Like that was a huge playing the game If you don't make that play We'd probably lose that game My first couple of years

The freshman year And sophomore year He didn't start either of those seasons But he ended up being a guy That beat on Iowa State My gentleman My freshman and sophomore year So then my third year

He started all the way out So yeah Greece was a gamer man Who was like the team asshole On this team That we all The team they were one kind of accountable with tough. I would say Eric Mays because he was one of our captains.

He was a linebacker, smaller linebacker, but he was tough. Tough. He was tough. You know what I'm saying? He had a little bit of asshole about him. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I would say Eric Mays. Who's the funny guy?

Who's the prankster, the jokester? I would say the guy that probably kept it light the most. I would say Chris Singletary. He was also a linebacker. but he was the guy that like on the sideline he was always in your ear like with some like inspirational shit on the sideline just you know what I'm saying come on boy you got this man let's do it you know what I'm saying let's he was always that guy man and you could always count on it at some point in the game

you know him walking by you and be like I would time to make a play dog you know what I'm saying that was singletary for sure who's the best player you ever played with that at michigan oh man uh i would probably say that's a tough one i probably i'll say tishmonga bachyakabatuka running back he was beast yeah he was a beast yeah he was he was great feet tough runner he ran he ran really upright too. And it always seemed like the ball was out loose. And I don't know, I don't know how he always held onto the ball, but he did. But good speed. I mean, my freshman year, he had 313 yards against Ohio State. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I'd say, yeah, Iquituka. Wow. Yeah.

Let's jump into the game. Kai guy. Game lead up. Ohio State was coming into this game ranked fourth with their lone loss at this time coming in a wild week against Penn State, who was number two at the time. Michigan on the other hand was number one of the nation, 11 and 0 with a trip to the Rose Bowl and a national title in their sites. It's also worth noting that Michigan had won four out of the last five meetings with Ohio State. Oh, so you owned them by

them. You owned them in your career. Yeah. Yeah, I'm undefeated. Three and O. Proud of that. Three and O'Nell. That's right. Left early. That's right. For those that didn't do the mouth. Got to go. So, Keith Jackson was on the call for this game. Also, Bob Greasy. Whoa. Nellie.

It's a little biased. You know, nowadays, Brady would have caught some flair for that. It's going to be a barn burner tonight. Started out with a scoreless first quarter. Michigan recovers that OSU fumble on their own 33. 106,000, the big house. That's crazy. What's it like playing?

That's every week, man. That's nothing. Every week? That's nothing, man. We probably fit like four or five Ken States in there. Well, you want to know something, Charles? Yeah. My senior day, we had 39 people, and I think my parents were three of them.

hold on what did you say three of them yeah we had 39 people at senior day 39 people all of them from the team not even because it was a snowstorm it was like our senior day it was just the parents bro 39 people man that's tough that's a tough gig that's why i went to the patriots i went to training camp bro i was like nervous because we had like 25000 people at training camp it was most people i ever been in front of that's wild that's wow that's what's the energy at the big house like during an ohio state game oh man it's it's heavy. You know what I'm saying?

Because this is, I mean, all of the other games, man, are there, you know, you got to win them all in order to kind of get where you're trying to get, but it's really about this game. I don't know how else to really explain it. You know what I can't say, Akron. I know. I was thinking. That was on the tip of my tongue.

I was thinking about that. But it, but it, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, there's a weight, you know what man, there's a weight on you, man, because you know, man, look, we, we got to beat this team. Like, we don't care what happened before, the week before, two weeks before. Don't matter. We got to win this game. So, uh, everybody's like hyper, hyper focused. you know what I mean during this game so urgency's up yeah man you got you like got the

superman like vision eyes like laser laser focus what now going into this week what do you remember in the prep week anything special that week uh just remember there was a lot of drawing going back and forth between both teams you know what I'm saying some bulletin board material yeah bulletin board I remember remember remember David Boston said that, you know, if they were clicking, you know, they would win by two touchdowns, you know what I mean? And, you know, he said that to the media. So that was out there like, well, we should beat Michigan by two touchdowns. Like, what? What are he talking about, man? What are you doing? What are you doing? So, yeah, so just a lot of join going back

and forth in the papers. And so, you know, it just added a little bit of fuel to the fire, man. I love it. I love it. What's something most people don't understand about this rivalry? That is really rooted in territory. Like this was a fight over Michigan and Ohio over Toledo. Oh, so there's some history behind this. Yeah, it's some real, real history.

Toledo's in Ohio, though. So, Ohio won't. Toledo's in Ohio, Toledo got Ohio. But, you know, I think I want to say 1800s, but they were fighting over the city of Toledo because they had some trade implications from the lakes and yep and so it's it's there's a there was a bad blood between citizens of both states literally you know what I mean so so yes it's about football but then it's also rooted in something else as well is it what does the winner get does it you guys have like a wheel or uh you know like so you don't mean like uh like the paul bunyan

what we get from Michigan state yeah I don't no no no No, just you know you got your ass whoop. You know you got your ass flip. All right, let's get into this game. They don't need some bullshit. We had a wagon wheel. You know, just me and Ken State and actor, baby, wagon wheel. 12 miles away from each other.

We'll be right back after this quick break. May 24th, 1990. A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me with just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe. In season two of Rip Current, we ask, who tried to kill Judy Berry and why? She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing.

The man and woman who were heard had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area, but more than it was the culture. It was the way of life. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here.

This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering,

we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right to the victim's family and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he would have this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revision's History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If one of us wins, we all win.

I'm Ashley Reitfeld, and I'm the host of the women's skateboarding podcast. Good luck with that. Good luck with that is a skateboarding podcast that is part cultural record, part news brief, mostly group therapy, and a place to talk about the past, present, and future of women and gender expansive skateboarding. This week, me and my co-host, Nora Vasconcellos and Alex White, we have Fabiana Delfino on the show, a professional skateboarder from Florida, whose grit was forged in a family of athletes. Tune in to hear how she broke into the boys club, what it takes to be pro,

and why just being grateful you're here shouldn't be the price of anything. Maybe the industry thinks that we just started skating five years ago, because that's when they maybe started paying attention. It's a no-fluff conversation about putting in the years, stacking clips and receipts, and still having to prove your worth while the industry catches up. You break down the door, sick now, like, hold the door for everyone. We created good luck with that because we want to share our experience of existing in an industry that wasn't always built for everyone. So listen to good luck with that on iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Lines and Times with Spencer Graves on the IHAR radio app is a podcast designed for hunters and fishermen to enjoy success.

I like the idea of like, hey, put me on a big deer. You know, hey, there's a big deer out here. He's doing this. Be looking for this deer. But I also love doing it on my own. I love going out there and saying running my cameras. I love patterning in the deer. I like showing up at the right time, checking the wind, knowing what stand I need to be in.

and then whenever it all comes together and it happens, that's the most satisfying thing ever. So when you do it on your own, it's like, I then can hang my hat. But if I had somebody say, hey, pull up on these dots and catch them right here and you're going to win, and then when I go win, it's like, yeah, that's cool. I won the tournament.

The ultimate goal is done. But it's like, dude, when you find them and you make them bite, that's the puzzle. I love it. Listen to lines and tines with Spencer Graves on the IHAR Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Ed Helms and welcome back to Snafoo, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode.

32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Yeah. Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player. Who still wore knee pads? Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny.

And a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcasts we were doing.

Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snap-Foo with Ed Helms, on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So as we mentioned, scoreless first quarter, and then in the middle of the second quarter,

Brian Greasy finds you over the middle for a 37-yard catch-and-run that would lead to an Anthony Thomas touchdown, having Michigan go up 70. Then with 4.7 left in the half, OSU puns it away to you. and you house a punt. Take us beat for beat.

When was that? It was right before the half time, was it? Yep, four minutes before halftime. Okay, okay. You remember that punt return? No, not at all. I don't have no, I don't remember that. You got it.

Nah. No, but now I was interesting to timing because I don't remember it, you know, being right before halftime, but yeah. But no, I remember, first of all, the 37-yard catch, you know, coming across the middle of the field, and man, I thought I was going to score

and I had Antoine Winfields coming and so I just tried to put a quick stiff arm and he caught my ankles and got me down so I was like I was going to, you know what I mean? That would have been a nice little pass and catch for a touchdown. But then the pump return

so I had punt, you know, I was a punt returner most of the year. I think me and another receiver, Russell Shaw had kind of split a little bit throughout the season, but I hadn't run one back all year. And so, you know, he, uh, punter kicks his ball, man. And it's like, it's like it's up there forever. Does he out kick the cover? Oh, man. It's up there forever. And so you know you're going to have a shot. You know what I mean? You have a cushion. And, and it's one of those plays where,

I don't know if you, if you, if you, like, when you catch the ball and you've scored a touchdown where it seems like you can kind of see everything and like all the blocks are set up like perfectly like a movie. Yeah. That's the way this punt return was. I catch the ball, start out to the right, and then all the blocks start happening.

And like I told you before the game, like how you laser focus. Like I could see every block where everybody was and I weave my way through. And then once that opening, it was one more block like right towards the end. And I was like, damn, I finally got one. Run it in.

And when I get there, you know, I'm telling the cameras, come on. Because I'm about to hit this pose. And the teammates come, rush, boom, tackle me. I'm on the bottom of this pile. I can't breathe. I'm tired. It's cold out there. But it was like, man, man, I've been back there.

10 games, man, never got when. Finally, this was the time. In the biggest moment. In the biggest moment. In the biggest game. Finally housed that thing. Was this your Heisman moment? 100%.

Well, really this whole game. The whole game. This whole game. Because I got that. I was the only receiver. If I'm not mistaken. I don't know if you guys looked at it up. But I think I was the only receiver on our team that had a catch in this game.

only receiver that had a catch everyone it was all tight end and running back it was it was being locked up it was being locked up uh winfield knocked out two of our players out of the game we feel can hit now oh he'll bang you yeah he'll bang you yeah he bang he was he was a tough dude man um yeah just running backs and tight ends and you that's it uh yeah so you're saying that after you return the punt you were going to do the i was going yeah i was going to hit the high I was going to hit the polls. And the guys rushed me. And, uh, they tackled you.

You know, so that was, that was out the window. So then, um, we'll get to a, we'll get to it later. But that's when the Rose thing came at the end of the game. Yeah. So that end up, yeah. Shout out Desmond Howard. I mean, Howard did it, but what makes a good Heisman moment? Uh, timing.

I think timing and an opponent. Timing that, that, that, that, that, that, that's it. Um, so like I was saying, like, I had some, some things before this game, the one hand. catch and then going down Penn State our team dominating that team and then this game this is the game and so if you shine in this game then they're somewhere in there you're going to have your moment you got I mean and so I said I had a couple of them in that moment one it was it was a catch early in the game then it was a punt return and then I picked one off in the end zone later in

the game in the red area in the red area so yeah so yeah so So a couple of different moments in the big game that you can pick from and then being an integral part of the game. Like, you have all those things going for you, there's your moment. There's your moment. Yeah. So something about this touchdown that gets kind of lost in the size. You guys go up 13.0, there's a missed or a blocked extra point. That almost gets housed.

Castmore. Yeah. Andy Casmore. Yeah, he almost runs that thing back. Almost running back. Yeah, with the biggest shoulder pads on you've ever seen in your life. lot of those. This was a heavy shoulder pad game. There's these mega shoulder pads

in these games. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was a scary little moment because he was out of there too. Shout out, Jay Feely. Jay Feely. Jay Feely. That was Tom's roommate, right? I think. I've heard that somewhere. He might have been. Strongest kicker in college football. He was yoked.

He pushed that 225 up. A lot. Yeah, more than most linemen. So goes 13-0 into halftime. You keep Ohio State off the board with the interception of the end zone early in the third. that's followed by a Andre Weathers, 43-yard pick six. It was almost like a stick route again, too, wasn't it? I think it was just a bad throw.

I think it was just a bad throw, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if it might have been tipped, too. You guys went up 20-0. You guys went up 20-0. So then they start trailing back in the third and fourth. Yep, yep. They got Boston, so. He got you in the double move or kind of, you kind of spun out weird.

I thought that, I thought he's going to run like a, a deep curl. So I was really prepared to jump the route. And he kept going. It's like, ah, shit. So I turned, I run. I catch up. He slows down.

So, you know, I'm comfortable with the ball in the air being on defense. So when he slowed down, I know I got a chance to turn around. So when I turn, he's on my right side. I turn his way. And when I looked at the ball, it just carried. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you almost had you almost, yeah, there's care. I'm still sick about that.

And then, then I was kind of a little discombobulated just because it carried on me. I didn't know how to react at that point. And he caught it touchdown. So they got, they got on the board. What do you say to you? Because you guys were talking. Yeah, he was, he was, he got a penalty for, he got a penalty for, you know, he held the ball out. He was, ah, yelling and all that.

So, yeah, he ended up getting a penalty. And then I don't know how they scored So they scored on that touchdown And then you guys had two fumbles There was a strip sack that put Ohio State inside the five They punched it in Yeah and you were 2014 But then that was the last final score

Got it got it, yep And then before that was the interception They were driving They were driving? Yep receiver ran He was in the red zone A rental inside ride out undercut it Can't run deep

can't run out the end zone can't run out everything's tighter in the red area everything's tighter and so I caught that and I was the plan was to come out

and the ground was slick and I slipped but my plan was to try to get that thing up at the sideline you're trying to win two icemen's yeah come on Charlie

you gotta leave an iceman for someone else that was the plan that was the plan and I slipped man I was like dang it but yeah so

that was another one of those moments in the game and then at the end we had to you know they got the ball back and we had to uh uh just basically stop them you know from driving back down the field and we we did that so and that was it final score 2014 michigan's going to the rose ball going to the rose bowl and then and that's when you know after the game

they're handing out the roses and i grabbed that thing the first thing i do bite it and then that's that's my moment so uh and my i think is my uh football life. I say Desmond has the pose. I have the rose. Look at that. You're a poet and you didn't even know it. You didn't know it. Look at you, Charles. So you have your Heisman moment on the field was the punt return and then the Heisman moment picture is the Rose. That's it. Man. That's it. What's the aftermath of this Kai guy? So Michigan completed their first undefeated regular seasons in 1971. Wow. You would go on to win the Heisman. Which is beating some wild people.

Peyton Manning, Ryan Leaf. Randy Moss, who had 90 catches, 10647 yards, and 25 touchdowns. Ricky Williams finished fifth. Ricky Williams, fifth. And Ryan, Ryan, yeah, Ryan, Lee. Yeah, Lee was second. Moss was fourth. And then Ohio State would follow Florida State in the Sugar Bowl 20 to 14.

You guys would win the Rose Bowl, beating Washington State 21 to 18. However, in finishing first in the AP for a national championship. However, Nebraska finished first in the coaches poll. Considered a split national championship. What? Split national championship? Were they undefeated too? They were undefeated, yeah.

They had a better opponent in their bowl game. They beat Tennessee. Yeah. Peyton Manning. They crushed Tennessee in their game. And this was the last year of the, before the BCS. The next year was BCS in Tennessee won, 1998. Yeah, so if this is a year later, we would have been able to play.

played Nebraska. But you still count it as a Natty, right? Oh, yeah, it's a Natty. It's a Natty. It's a Natty. Undefeated? Come on. Yeah. Everything. Nattie.

Everything. What was like Heisman night in New York? What do you guys be a fun night? Partied, man. How was Randy? Do you guys hang out with each other? We didn't, we didn't hang out after then. We hung out a little bit before. because we would have gotten up there that Thursday night Friday so they kind of take you around the city a little bit you know it's around Christmas time so you're 18 you're 20 years old yeah it's your first time seeing the big city

probably yeah yeah yeah it's been seeing the the big tree what the Rockefeller's yeah it was it was a real scene man but But then the night after, I had one of my buddies from college, Marcus Ray, who was a safety on the championship team.

We kicked it. We found a little spot, man, to go hang out, a little club. Me and him got on the microphone. You were not flowing. Oh, man, we was flowing, man. You were flying? Freestyle of me and the homie. We took over the mic.

DJ let us up there. It was going down. Did you have a high as well? I was flowing back in the day I felt like I had a little something I got put on flobation on the mic when I pre-practice you got to put on what?

Flobation. Is that what they call? Flobation? Yeah, or they take it. If you're terrible, they took the bike away from you done. They took the bike away from me. They put me on Follahua used to put me on flobation all the time. Horrible. I mean, is that shocking?

Come on, man. Now, what's the like Heisman perk that you that no one might not know about? What's like that one special thing that you get? Or like, no, yeah, I just think the perk is that that's who you are. Like, that's who you're referred as. Like, man, you know, he won the He's an iceman trophy.

Like, that just happened the other day. Like, man, I was at, uh, actually had my son's game last night. And one of the guys after the game was like, hey, man, going to get a picture. And I think he had like his daughter or something with him. She's like, he's like, man, you don't know who this is, man. Charles wasn't one of the best, but he won the Heisman trophy. Like, it's there forever. That's it. Yeah, that, they can't take that away from you.

Can't take that away from you. Man. Also, in the aftermath, Charles would go on to have a Hall of Fame NFL career, drafted fourth overall in the 1998 to Oakland be covered, winning defensive rookie of the year. You're a three-time all-pro Super Bowl champion, nine-time Pro Bowl, a defensive player of the year in 2019. Hall of Famer, well-deserved.

Defensive player of the year in 2019. Can we talk about 2009? Can you talk about Thai law for a second Another Michigan cornerback You know Ty at all? Taiwan You know Ty?

Shot a clock My guy Shot o'clock Yeah that's Ty My guy That's Ty I love Thai But my guy

For sure Ty left early I thought I was gonna get to play with Ty one year in Michigan Yeah He left early Was he the guy when he left Oh he was a man

Yeah he was the man All right What's the legacy of this game before we score it this game the legacy 1997 the game between ohio state and michigan legacy from charles woodson is well i guess for me i guess it would be that i mentioned earlier like this was the game right that truly like there's other little you know the other moments I feel like are kind of ancillary moments but in terms of what what really gave me the the notoriety right in the football world all right was that game like

forever you know people are going to remember that game high's been moments you you're undefeated get a chance to go to the Rose Bowl get a chance to play for a national championship you had to go through Ohio State to do it that was like that's the that's that's almost like my my base is my base is like where I grew up like that's my that's my foundation but the base in terms of all of the other stuff that came after like NFL rookie year but that was the start of all that you know what I'm saying if that may if that makes sense well now that you say like that like you did that's the pinnacle of college football right Right, Heisman,

Undefeated, National Championship, Michigan, Ohio State, Roseball. Like, what more could you possibly ask? Yeah. That's the dream right there. Yeah. What more could you possibly ask? Like, when you lay down,

you're like, man, I wish I could win the Heisman. It's the national championship. Oh, I did that. Jesus. Must be nice. Yeah. Well, you've never experienced beating the Zips. No, we beat the Zips, bro.

We beat them. But I got that wagon will one year. What was your record against the Zips? One and two. Oh, man. Came out early. Yo, those hips. How did you go?

All right, let's name the game that we score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Remember, decimals are encouraged. We came up with these names. If you have a name, we can use it. But we came up with the game 97, the Heisman clincher, in your Buckeye. No, in your Buckeye.

In your Buckeye. In your buck eye. Charles in charge, Woodson 97, or do you have a name? Or do you resonate with one of these names? Oh, man. In your Buckeye has a little ring to it. In your Buckeye. I like it.

I like it. Let's score the game. I like it. The stakes, zero to ten decimals encouraged the stakes of this Ohio State Michigan game to go to the Rose Bowl. Potential Heisman clenching moment. The stakes of this game for you. Zero to 10.

Decimal's encouraged. The stakes are the highest, so that's 10, right? All right? We got it. Okay. I mostly give people shit for scoring a 10, but I mean, this is pretty crazy. Like, there's a lot of,

there's a lot. I'm going to go with like a nine. Nine. Why would you go nine? Because it's not a national championship. We've done literally people that are trying. No, no, no. That game is the national championship.

We weren't worried about the next game. We're going to win that. I'm just saying, but we've done. No, I'm just saying, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Dude, it's the game. It's my score. There's nothing after the game.

You have your score. I have my score, Charles. But look, if there's a, if there's a contest and it's called the game, there ain't nothing after that. But that the game is only said the game by the two teams that play in the game. But if you watch the telecast like before the game ever comes on, everybody refers to it as the game. The game tomorrow is between a different team. No, there's a game tomorrow.

Nine is a high score. You're not bullying me into changing by score, Charles. You will not bully me into changing by score. That got an 8.9 added 9.1. Star power of the game. Guys on your team, guys on other team, coaching staffs, star power, zero to 10, 10 being, there's so many stars.

It's not even funny. Like an all-star game. There's no one. It's an Akron, Ken State game. What are you talking about? There's, we had a couple of studs there. Starpower. How many?

Interesting. NFL players on Michigan? 31. How many on Ohio State? Probably a bunch. There's a bunch. Yeah. A lot of stars.

Lord Carr. Future Tom. Tom. I'm sure there was some Michigan celebrities in the building, too. This place was slammed with celebrities. Let's go 9.4. 9.4. It's a good one.

That's a good one. For me, I will go, I feel like Charles is bullying me with his eyes of my score. I'm going to go with a... You are very impressionable. 8.9.

A lot of stars. See? Who was their quarterback? Greasy. Ohio State was some guy that... Joe Jamee. Some guy. Stanley Jackson.

There you go. They had two. You know what they say. If you got two quarterback, you don't have any. Jack had a 9.1. I had a 7.5. Why did you have a 7.5?

Because, I mean, who was the other quarterback? They had two quarterbacks, John Cooper, coach. You know, it's not like a pro-ball game with like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and, you know, Elton John's doing half-time show. I see what you did there. I see what you did there. Let's go with the gameplay of the game. How the game went. 0-10.

Oh, man. Yeah, I think the game was. Low-scoring game. Low-scoring game. A lot of high. A lot of phases played well. I'm going to go 9-5. 95, Charles.

It is a little. I like the 9-5. Jesus. I'm going to go, you know, I'm a teamer guy. I like old school brute football, but there were some turnovers. I like to see more. I like to see more. It's a little, you know.

I like to see a little cleaner offense. You know, I'm offensive guy. So I'll go with the 8.2. Jack had a 7.8. I had 7.4. The name of the game. We grade the name of the game. In your Buckeye.

it's also the cultural like significance of a game which I think is very high this is a very high culturally sign you're going 10 10 there ain't all the way all right we got 10 for from charles no bias there um non-biased opinion that's a great name and everyone knows this game I'll go with the 8.9 that's the worst score you could have given up what are you talking about it's a great jack in a nine for two I also had an 8.9 8.9 where does this put let's see where lands on the list. Okay, let's find out. What's our grand total? It's an 8.86. It's a high-ass scoring game.

8.86. It's our new it's tied for 12th. Actually, I'm sorry, tied for 12th with Super Bowl 52, Eagles versus Patriots, just ahead of Super 18 Raiders versus Redskins and just behind, choke at the doke, Florida versus Florida State, 1994. It's respectable, man.

That's a great spot for it. Miracle on Ice, 2001 Stanley Cup, Malcolm Butler again. Oh, that's a good one. my favorite is like number eight I like the 999 World Cup final China versus America a lot of geopolitically stuff going on in that one

See that's when you talk about stakes like the geopolitical Yeah, if you put it like that Yeah I personally think the highest stake game ever Would be the space jam game Because like the world could have been like ruined If they lost that game It's a fiction game bro

Maybe to you I'm happy with that It's a good score That's a really good It's our, is it, what chokadoke is better? I don't think so. We do a rescoring here. What was the chokadote?

That was, um, where Florida was kicking the shit out of Florida State. And then Florida State scored like 28 unanswered points to like tie it late. Fred Taylor versus Warwick done. Back in the day. We do that game with Burke Kreischer. He's a big, uh, Florida State fan. So it kind of got a bit of a push. How did it get so high?

that's crazy because you're impressionable so you you base your score off of what the guest does not even close to like this is non-bias here let's move it on let's move it on here here's our lower scores Charles we miss anything from this game no I think we hit we hit all of the all of the moments all the big moments um you missed the after party after the game how was the after party after the game that was a good time we'll keep it with the good time a good time a good time a good time. Everyone's got to go check out Woodson Whiskey. Also Intercept wines. Intercept wines. Intercept wines. Don't we have a cigar company too, I think? Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. We need to get one. We should also maybe do a rose

company. Oh. We could do a rose distribution company. It comes with the cigar. It comes with the cigars. Everyone go check out your IG. What's your I'm? Charles Woodson. Charles Woodson. Yep. Fox NFL kickoff every Sunday. eight o'clock check to the south let's go charles thanks for coming on man appreciate you

having me man man that's that was a fun episode to go down memory lane with ohio state michigan with michigan legend college football lore NFL hall of famer charles woodson oh jacks the boys back the boys back jack i hated missing that one oh charles i would have worn my ascot for it i know we didn't get the ask no no i was just going to ask you Jack wanted to get asked. That's okay. We needed our mascot to ask the ascot. Oh, there it is, baby.

We needed our mascot to ask the ascot question. I heard it was an amazing interview, though. Yeah, it was fun. Charles brings a heat every time. He's a captain. We got captain energy. I was going to say, you guys are already teammates. Pro.

Stud. Oh, like, riding a bike, easy money. And it's time for the chill zone brought to you by Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit Coorslight.com slash GwN and celebrate responsibly. Cheers, Guy. Nice. Like a rock.

All right. What are we doing here today, Jackie? All right. It is Thanksgiving season. With that being scheduled, we want to talk to you a little bit about what it's like to play football in the national football league on Thanksgiving.

They just go together, baby. Yeah. spaghetti meatball, peas and carrots. Football on Thanksgiving. I played on it twice. One in Detroit. One in New York. Yep.

Detroit almost housed a punt. I think I got tackled by the punter. He made a big block for Wes on a slip screen. He scored on it. But we won that one and then we scored two touchdowns

in that Thanksgiving game and that would have been the that would have been the morning game when you played in Detroit? Yeah, we played the morning game. What's that we mean like games at what starts at 12 Eastern? Yeah, I mean the whole schedule's jacked up

you usually do your Thanksgiving if you're on the road which we're on the road both times. You do it the first. Friday you're back or the Wednesday before or usually it's when you come back so that because you have a day off. Uh, did we have any? We had like Christmas games where they were at home were, but we still, you still practice. You still have your stuff. Everything's kind of abbreviated a little bit because it is a Thursday game. So there's no like physical tough practice because there's no

practice on Thursday night games regardless because you're still recovering from that week before. But I think they provide Thanksgiving turkey stuff during the at the facilities before like that whole week you get like Thanksgiving turkey stuff. Yeah. Stuffing mashed potatoes. Stuffing mashed potato. Mac and cheese. You have a lot of

southern guys so the mac and cheese is big in the south. Do you have mac and cheese at yours? No, see, that's the thing. I'm a Southern man and I don't even eat Macon cheese on Thanksgiving Never have. But now it's just a black dude

I'm maybe some black guys. No, but they're northern There are other I have incorporated mac and cheese into my Thanksgiving See, that never hits the table Just because it's an excuse to have mac and cheese I didn't grow up with it

But it's like you get access to the end of it. No, I never did. Did you guys do it at all? No, we were green bean casserole. Same. Green bean cassero, stuffing yams.

Cranberry Canned cranberry sauce? I like canned cranberry sauce. Yeah, me too. I like the Canterranberry. And then mashed potatoes, gravy, turkey. Best one I've ever had, though, was at Conley's house. Okay, so tell us about where you would actually have Thanksgiving when you would do Thanksgiving.

I think we went to his house that year. I think I've been to Mankins for one. Then did my own for younger guys as I got older, like I think a receiver. Oh, you did? Are you hosted? I didn't know that. Maybe once. So you just wouldn't have Thanksgiving or over or something.

How many times have you had Thanksgiving with your first? family while you were playing? Later in my career, when Lily came, we would have like a little Thanksgiving, but it was, you know, you're a mercenary. Yeah. At least earlier part of my career. So you go to the married family guy's house. So Dan Conley, he did like three turkeys.

He did like a smoked, deep fry, a bake, made everything handmade, some of the best yams. And I'm not even a yam sweet potato guy. I mean everything he made was elite I think his brother was a chef and he was really passionate about the chefing I think he made a homemade cider apple cider he had homemade beer he had homemade marshmallows for the smores

for the kids this guy had homemade everything geez Louise how do you do the turkey is it fried was it baked? One of each about smoked one of each a smoked

baked and a deep bread Noah's arc of turkeys I mean this Noah's arc of everything that's crazy stuffing inside the bird or stuffing made separately? Always, I think he made it out. I think he may have had both, but

outside, but you don't eat the stuffing in the bird, I don't think. Yeah, that's a little weird. I feel like some people have in the past, but that's the time. They did. What's the point of putting stuffing in the bird if I can eat it? I don't know. It's just, it kind of dries your bird out. They call it dressing. What about in college? Because this game was a college game. Like, were you, did you do, and you're not

really having, like, there aren't any veterans. You're out like your, no, you're out with all your teammates. Dining hall. Dining hall. Yeah. freaking Dunbar in Ken State freaking eating cafeteria turkey I used to hate the turkey I can't

oh brutal bro you know what I mean it was not I don't think it was real turkey I think it was like those the loaths of turkey that you buy and they just cut it oh yeah yeah it's like deli meat turkey and the gravy that's when you need the gravy to try to counteract it but we didn't have great gravy

I remember the college food being very bad I can see that. You know, like, it was all right. Because that's like your last game of the year in college, usually. I did go to Coach Martin's house, I think, once or twice. Oh, nice. He used to have me at his house and his wife could cook. She was from Kentucky or something.

That feels like a NCAA violation. I was used to say, is that a loud, allowed acting? Full violation. You can have the turkey, but you can't have the stuff. Yeah, you can have the stuffing. No gravy. No gravy. Is that extra gravy?

Yeah, the Thanksgiving day. We're going to have to self-report this. In the NFL, it's, I liked it because you're the show and everyone's watching you And I was always used to not being around my family For that long period of time And at that point of my life

My family was really the teammates You know, because you were so accustomed to Even if you weren't playing on Thanksgiving You're going to one of your teammates' house You had a little short practice in the morning But you still have practice It's always a fun day Because you had the excitement of holiday

And eating afterwards hanging out with family you know so but it still was always a work day now that I liked it because you got to earn your turkey you know what you mean like we practiced on Thanksgiving we didn't have a Thanksgiving game like I always remember we were let we were always let out pretty early

we didn't have like after meetings and it'd be an early practice get in get our work done but you know then you got to go home and you felt like oh I could eat the turkey yeah I'm gonna earn that trip to fan baby I earn that I'm gonna earn wearing these stretchy pants. I guess. I'm looking,

I'm deep over here in the box square. Nick Harris took you down on that return. Punter. Yeah, Detroit Lions. I remember I got

ridiculed for that. A classic Sean Hill versus Tom Brady matchup. What year was that? This was 2010. 2010. Ben Jarvis,

Green Ellis, Danny Woodhead. Big Dion Branch game. Big Dion. Now, like, if you like, start of the season, you get the schedule

or whatever, and you've got to think, Do you want a Thanksgiving game or do you not want a Thanksgiving game? You probably, I mean, I don't want a Thanksgiving game because they're not at home for us, usually. Yeah, that's true. If you had a home Thanksgiving game. If you're at home, maybe.

It'd still be a night game if you had one. Yeah. Because the night game was relatively recent addition. The Patriots Jesuit was one of the, maybe the second one. Yeah, the third Thanksgiving game. Yeah. Because it used to just be the two day games or three. And the Patriots played another.

night Thanksgiving game against the Vikings after he'd retired. Yes. I would say you probably wouldn't want to. You'd rather the easy practice in the morning or like the low key practice in the morning. Yeah, and I also want to... I'm in Thanksgiving. I mean, you still had like

kind of a day off, even though you worked. Yeah. It wasn't a full day of work. And you got to like do a whole lot of nothing for a long part of the day and just watch food or watch football, you know, and do the Thanksgiving thing. Culturally be a part of it as a supposed to happen to work.

And even if you were like, you didn't have a place to go and you were like scheming up where you're going with your friends, it was still fun to do that. No, I feel that. So now on the Sunday after Thanksgiving, like,

can you catch a vibe on the guys who maybe had a little bit too much on that Thursday? Or are these guys cruising through that no one's that sluggish? You remember a coach saying something like afterwards. What are you guys eating too much? Gotter turkey last?

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Classic. Listen ass eyes. Yeah. Oh, now. Get that turkey out of here. Oh my gosh.

Wait, so you guys would practice if you didn't have a game that day in the morning? Usually, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. In and out? Like a 9 o'clock practice, which practice usually started around like 1231. Oh, wow. That is early. You know, get out by 11, 12.

Nice. Now that I'm like just thinking about this, why aren't the Patriots having like a Thanksgiving day game every year like the Cowboys and the Lions? I mean, the first Thanksgiving happened, like... That's a great point, guy. 50 miles from the stadium. That's a great point. I mean, that's a rock.

Yeah. Yeah, Rod. Down over there in the South Shore. This year, we got Green Bay at Detroit is the early one, as usual. Ooh, that's a good one. Then you got Kansas City at Dallas. Kansas City at Dallas. That's a 430 slot.

Then you got the night game, Sinci at Baltimore. Something that I don't think it's enough, like, we all talk about NFL Thanksgiving, but that weekend is, home some of the best college football games. This is true. Friday and Saturday, right? Always the game. The Egg Bowl, you got the Egg Bowl?

Yeah. Oh, man. Black Friday game. NFL. Yeah. Amazon Prime. Right. Who is it this year?

Is it Bears Eagles? Bears Eagles? That's not fun. It's okay. Oh, it is. Double doink two. Double doing two. That would be awesome.

Go for a triple doink. Have you guys been hearing? The more doinks, the better. The doinks, because they put the microphone on the... I love it. It's way better. It's so good. You know, that's something that hockey does.

They mic the boards, sort of like all the sticks and the things makes it sound like it's happening more. I love that. Noink sound. Also, we'd be remiss. We're talking New England football. That's your rivalry day, isn't it?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. High school football has a big. That's one thing I remember too a lot. They would always, the Super Bowl. They call it the Super Bowl. Yeah. In Massachusetts.

Yeah. And it was always out Foxborough. So we'd be leaving or something. Yeah. But the Super Bowl was not things. Thanksgiving. In Massachusetts, I don't know if it's changed now, but back in the day, you would play your, like, town rival. So, like, Methuen would play. That's what it was. There was some kind of football game there always every year. You got any big memes? I played on Thanksgiving Day. I was just going to say, you got me in in Foxborough? No, I'm Western Mass. We never got to play in Foxborough. Our, like, Super Bowl that we played in was at home on Thanksgiving, which was awesome. Yeah. But we played Gillette. Same thing. My first, my senior year, they had a Berkshire County Championship that we played on, like, 10 a.m. At home on Thanksgiving, which was awesome. It was the first I ever played. And I did earn my fucking turkey.

And we won Berkshire County Championship. Let's go. Damn right. Don't forget it. Go Mounties. They don't exist anymore. All right. We love that.

Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you. Football, too. All you old guys out there about to play in that turkey bowl. Stretch. Don't forget to stretch in McKeillies. I'm hammies. And that was the show's own.

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