Games with Names - The OG 28-3 with Brian Hoyer | Browns vs. Titans (2014)

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Brian Hoyer is in studio! The Super Bowl Champ and 15 year NFL veteran joins us in The DUNKIN' Nuthouse in Boston to relive the original 28-3: Browns vs. Titans from Week 5 of the 2014 NFL season.  (8:21:40) Brian joins us in the studio. (57:11:42) We go back to November 2014. (1:00:59) We dive into the rosters. (1:21:58) We get into the game. (1:39:57) We score it. (1:56:21) Julian breaks down jersey swaps and what the relationship with your opponents in the NFL in The Chill Zone presented by Coors Light.    Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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How many starting quarterbacks can you name from the Cleveland Browns? Tim Couch, Detmer, Kelly Holcomb, Spurgeon, Win, Doug Johnson, I think's on there. Charlie Fry, obviously me, Weiden, Campbell, Mansell, Josh McCown, Jacoby Brissette. Oh, you're right on the money here. McCoy, Anderson, RG3, Baker. Damn, boy. God, dude, there's a lot. I mean, I'm not even going to get halfway through this.

Welcome to Games with Names, presented by Duncan. I'm Julian Edelman, there Jack and Kyler, and we are on a mission to finding the greatest game of all time. We are coming to you from the Duncan Nutt House here in Boston. On today's episode, we are covering the other 28 to 3 game, Browns versus Titans Week 5 in the 2014 season with Super Bowl champ

the man who played for nine different teams same draft class with me Brian Hoyer and we're talking what it's like to watch film with Tom Brady the depth of which he would watch film and the things that he would find it's a lot to take it

playing for nine different teams I played in the three family trees the Earhart Perkins system the West Coast the North Turner Air Correale system and pulling off the biggest road come back in the regular season in NFL history. Feeling

in the locker room after that game, it was like we had won the Super Bowl. And we're pulling back the curtain on how players on different teams interact on this week's chill zone presented by Coors Light. You got to stick around to the end. Let's go. Games with Ames is a production

of IHeart Radio. October 5th, 2014, L.P. Field, Nashville, Tennessee. With two minutes and 55 seconds left in the first half. The Browns trail to Titans 28 to 3. What? But Brian Hoyer is about to turn this massacre into a miracle? This is the OG 28 to 3. Just like throwing around. It's great. Thank you.

Brian will be here in a few minutes, but first, we need to hit the Duncan pregame where we fuel up on Duncan and make sure we're ready for the interview. Where's my... I got my nice coffee in here. I got a little ice coffee in here. And this little thing makes it nice and cool. Jack, how much refresher is... I got... I am Mr. refresher. I have been refreshed all week. Man. This is, I mean, we're in triple digits territory at this point. Triple digits of what? Refreshers. Triple digits. That's Hyundai. That's Hyundai. We need to Donut count. Can you, how many donuts have you had this week? Oh, man. I've been going kind of easy. I've eaten three maples and two munchkins. And one was on those.

On the decathlon? The decathlon. Oh my gosh. The decathlon was we count, if we're counting munchkins, I might have a problem here. I literally have drinking like seven cups of coffee a day, though. Um, yes. And then like, I'm so tired after our days. And I'm like so, like, I get to my bed and I want to fall asleep because of the fucking 800 grams of, caffeine that I have I just sit there like tired in my bed like can I go to sleep my neck hurts why it's not working so if you guys need to get fueled up

I'm telling you this shit will fuel you up this shit'll fill you up I've only had two donuts don't ask me how many wake-up raps I've had though where's a wake-up rat They have those on there? Yeah it's the egg cheese

the egg and cheese sausage are bacon and then see those great really underrated item I'm gonna go get one of my favorite I've been doing jelly maple, blueberry glaze, pumpkin. Oh, all the sprinkles,

all chocolate, strawberry. I like the blueberry donut. Yeah, glazed. Is it blueberry or is it strawberry? Blueberry. It's blueberry, but it's a little hang of red in there. I didn't see any red. I don't know.

I like the blueberry one. There's a pumpkin one. I didn't even, I just inhaled that stuff. Tis the season. And then I had the fringe cruller last night. That was my nightcap. Pretty good.

A little curler. Good, the crawler. I think that's what Brian Hoyer is if he's a donut. He's a cruller? He's French. He's German. I know, but it's still the closest thing to Europe. It's like a European donut.

Best moment so far or best moment to wrap up the Dunkin' That House? Well, I just wanted, the best moment was that German accent by Matt Light, speaking of German. How great was that accent? I thought it was like. I liked Matt's dog. That's a beautiful dog. Yeah. What kind of dog?

Some sort of hunting pointer situation. They have the same beard. They have the same beard. They have the same beard. They look like your dog. Man. That's what they all say. That's right.

You don't start. You end up looking like. You look at Rocky. I got the same gray hair. I'm just going to say. I'm just going to see you guys looking like twins. I know. I think my favorite moment,

I'm a Papa shot fiend. It's been fun. I've been getting shots up. I woke up one morning and there was literally 999 shots taken. Yep. That was by our boy, Matt. Where? Downstairs is the Papa shot.

It gets to 999. Where do you see the number? You can hit a button and turn on the counter mode. Oh, I didn't even see that. Yeah, we've just been shooting. Yeah, we've just been shooting for the love of the game. Yeah. You can keep score on that bad boy.

In the decathlon, so. Only three events. Rainy champ triathlon. I don't know who. Doesn't have the alliteration. I heard someone put a 12 there, but no one has saw the number. I did 12. I did 12.

Yeah. Who was there? Billy saw the back half. I just was like, I was like, if there was a back half, there wouldn't be 12 seconds. Hold on. Who was timing? Hold on. No one was timing.

I was like, oh, I'm going to do this to Cathon. Jack just did it. No one's timing. I just went one, one thousand, two, one thousand three. Yeah, putts in. Yeah. It was the first putt that went in. The first basketball went in.

And then are you like worried that I'm not going to murder the munchkin in two seconds? 1,000 percent. So I hit a lot of june. You've been very parched this weekend. And I saw that you had powdered donut around you. And I know you're for a fact. You're not swalling that in under eight seconds. Well, it's just a munchkin.

And I didn't do munchkin because I scouted. I did a, small glaze because I knew that would be faster. No, you it's the, you know what, if my dunk in decathlon time is the same as Dion Sanders 4-2, I'll take it. I also did a 360 windmill dunk

in the driveway basketball hoop. Yeah. No one saw it, but something. Yeah, I saw it. Yeah. No one saw it, but I did it. It was a tough look for the Nut House crew. I was just looking through the windows, like dazing out, and all the guys were back there, you know, the team was back to shooting shots. Five minutes before

one went in. Like Ryan was shirtless just airballing it. It took Jack like a layup to get like one. Gotta break the seal. Gotta get a layup before you hit three.

The fucking football guys. That's right. Plus I had just run my three minute miles so I was pretty gas. You know what I mean? I said the world record. Me and Meb could like no one was there. I feel like you know.

No one was there though, Jack. Over the years of our relationship, I feel like I've proven myself to be a man of integrity. You have. You have. I'm just saying in the dunking decafland. I got to see the crime. It's the game.

Who was timing? In my head. It's an effort. It's a hand time. It's a hand time. In my head? So you just threw out of the integrity. It was one put.

It was one put that some right in. It was basketball right in and then dunking down. It could have been sub 10. I believe you. But I'm just saying, it could have been sub 10. It could have been sub 10. I'm being conservative.

Could have been sub 10. You are the only one that wasn't either filmed or had witnesses or time. I had witnesses, but Billy's sandbagging. I'm saying, Because I'm going to start and a jerked in this whole tip. Dona don't fit. You must have quit. And you've been dodging me on sauce toss, by the way.

You know, I'm not supposed to like I know that one. excuses. Here's the excuses. I mean, I did go set the record that the calf on when I'm not supposed to be doing this thing. What did you get? Young Wayne Gretzky with the wristers.

I don't know. I don't know. 16 or something. Oh, okay. Now we know why. That's on film. Here we go. That's on film.

Here we go. I will say, though. Everyone was there. All right. I was 32. I'm not going to front like I was the winner. 32. Everyone was there. But it's been great.

Let's go. Let's toss it at Brian Hoyer. It's great interview. Great interview. Let's go. Welcome to Games with Names. Today we have a very special guest to go over a very special game. One of the specialist games in the history of my life. We're going over the 28 to 3 game with Brian Hoyer. Brian, in one sentence.

Why did you pick the 28 to 3 game when you know we already did it five times? Well, I don't think it's the same 283 game you're thinking of. I think it's my own. own 28 to 3 comeback. We did it first in Cleveland, largest road comeback in NFL history. I thought, oh, no, they didn't tell you. Oh, I didn't read it. I didn't read it. This is the other. We each have one. We each have one. The other 28 to 3 game. Browns versus Texans in week five of 2014. There was another 28 to 3 game. What the

OG. The OG. Hey, I had to show you guys the way. All right. In one sentence, why this game? Look, for me, personally, this was probably one of the greatest moments in my career. I know it's not going to be the greatest game of all time, but to come back to 28 to 3, and oddly enough, as I'm sitting there watching you guys, I'm like, I know they could do it. I know someone who's done it before. And I have a lot of faith in you guys coming back from that because I had done it before. And like I said, just one of the, one of the biggest moments personally for me, I had so many moments with you guys, but I wasn't out on the field. And so for me, that was pretty amazing. The feeling in the locker room after that,

game wasn't i mean there's clips of me doing i don't know what kind of dancing it was like it was it was like we had won the super well that it's not dancing hoy it was it wasn't too bad movement yeah movement movement for a white guy i mean it was okay did you actually think of this game during the the the super bowl uh 51 yeah i was thinking of this driving over here and i can't remember who it was but at halftime someone had texted me and was like what do you think do they have a shot and i was like well first of all of course they have a shot i know the guys over there i know Bill Belichick. I know Tom. I know the Julian's, the Dolas, like the people in that locker room. But in my mind, I was like, man, if the Cleveland Browns can do it. I know that these guys can do it.

Now, obviously, a much bigger stage. Yeah, yeah. But I was like, the only thing is the time. You know, how much time you're going to have? Because I forget what it was in the Super Bowl, but in this game, we cut it to 28 to 10 right before half. And so that was huge. And then we came out and the first play of the second half, we got the ball, and we ran a boot, double move, Taylor Gabriel, on my boy, J. Mack. We'll jump into that. Yeah, so it was, it was, for me, probably as a player, one of my biggest moments being on the field.

So this isn't the greatest game of all time? No. I think the other 28 to 3 is probably the greatest game of all time. You think the other 28 to 3? This game or the other one? No, yours. Not mine. Ours.

I wasn't there. You weren't there. I came back the next year. The next year. Yeah, so I only have the 21, 28 to 3. That would have been pretty sweet to be on two teams to do that. But I would say, was that 51, Super Bowl 51? 51.

That, to me, was incredible. But also, I think, I believe your first Super Bowl against Seattle. Yeah. That was pretty, I mean, that was pretty amazing because it was just two heavyweights, just slugging it out, and who was going to finish last? And obviously Malcolm's interception was, I was in a hotel room. we were on vacation in Florida and my kids had fallen asleep in the bed

and when Malcolm picked that off I jumped up because I had so many friends on that team. Of course you did. Tom did the same thing and you were usually known to do the exact same things as Tom. That's right. And look, we're going to get into that too because no one got more shit of their relationship with Tom than you and I. Always. Always. But I think it was a pretty wise decision. Hey, you want to hang around

and act like the people that are at the best of anything. That's right. That's right. And I mean, that's what I always tell young people. you know, young football players, when I go and speak to schools, I go, you look for the studs on the team that have been doing it for a long time. And you go fucking copy them. That's right. You know, and that's what I did. And people want to fuck. And you did it too. Oh, man. I mean, Rawwitz, I'm sure he'll watch this. He used to mock me because first of all, Tom would give me hand-me-downs. Look, I'm young in the league. I'm undrafted. I don't have any money. I'm getting like Zane. Yeah, right. Oh, you wouldn't bought the same. No, I couldn't.

You had the same bag. When I came back in 2017, I had a little more money so I could do it. But when I was young, remember Tom would come in and just put stuff in the locker room. And one day he came in and he had some like nizania dress shoes. I was like, take those, an extra to me bag. So you guys have the same side foot? Yeah, we do. 13.

13. Yeah. Big socks. I mean, Jules has a closet full of Ugg slippers. Oh, yeah. I mean, I still to this day have stuff that's unworn. just because it would just be a huge box in the locker room and it would just, you know, for the taking.

That's honestly one of the things you miss the most when you're out of the league. Yeah. The free shit you get in the locker room. I mean, batteries, headphones, video games, systems, fucking boom boxes. You get golf bags. That's right. I wanted a golf bag.

I got a golf bag. It's freaking crazy. Now, what's life been like lately for you, Hoy? Look, a little bit like you, not on this grandest stage, but kind of venturing into the meat. media, do a few things here locally, NBC Sports, Boston. Why are you guys laughing? The grand stage, mate.

Oh, man. I think you're something. This is. I mean, making us real long time. I love it. We, David and I started.

Talk about Fox. Yeah. Well, Fox, I mean, that's huge, dude. I watch you on Sundays. Kick off Saturday morning. Sunday morning. Uncle Terry, we love you. 9 o'clock.

Uncle Terry. But yeah, gee, I mean, look, I wanted to not do anything too much my first year out because I wanted to be around for my kids. I mean, my son's, playing football for the last time last year. 6-1. 16. We're working in the weight room. He's going to be way more athletic,

way bigger than me. We're trying to turn him into a Josh Allen. That's the film he's watching. He's not watching his dad. He's not watching TV. We're trying to be a dual threat. Well, first off, you've got to get that out of your head. You got to watch your dad's film. This is a great no. When you see him tomorrow night, you

just let him know, okay? No, because you honestly, I remember this game. I don't remember this game, but I remember this era of football. When you went on like a really good, like, run, and I used to always have your back because we used to have our relationship and scout team. And Hoy used to throw one of the fucking most catchable balls. I don't care what anyone says.

He always threw a really catchable ball, like the centrifugal force of it and like how it was. It just was always right there, and you always knew the offense. So if your son wants to be a baller in the run game, yeah, but you still want to be able to digest offense. It's like, I teach them that. I try to tell them there's more to playing quarterback than throwing the football. You know what I mean? Like that's the one thing.

Operationally, you got to copy you. That's why I told him last year. I said, look, this is your first year playing quarterback in tackle football. It's not flag football. Like, I want you to be able to set the huddle, command the huddle presence, call the play, get to the line of scrimmage, take the snap. And then after that, like, you're learning. It's a learning process and you're going to do it. Well, you got to tell them, you know, personnel groups, call the play, communicate the play, get to the line of scrimmage, make,

Make sure everyone is fucking set. You got to look at the front. You look at the coverage. You look at your own guys. You take your pre-snap read. You take your post-nap read. And you look. You keep your eyes on those goddamn safety

because those corners lie all the fucking time. That's right, buddy. Look, this is what made you so great was your understanding because you played quarterback, right? And we had an early connection. I remember back to those days at the Residence Inn. We have walkthroughs. I know you had Orrumburger on here.

And we fucking, we would go into that. we'd move all the furniture out and we'd literally do mock huddle i'd call the play we'd break rich would get up there i'd make the mic point you'd run the route and walk through out yeah we'd walk through the route and and honestly i think it was a huge reason i made the team i don't know how you felt but you were a huge yeah definitely i mean just that studying yeah we used to study together all the time like the flash cards or i mean when when when we played in college like it was like one personnel group that's right you know new england there's 15 person group. So you have to like remember where you, and you change on everything. And then the

formations and then all the concepts. And so for guys like us, undrafted seventh round, like you couldn't afford to fuck up a rep. That's right. Like, or you thought you were getting cut. And there were so little reps for us that like you had, it was a Super Bowl anytime you got a rep in practice when the big dogs were watching. That's right. I remember being in there like late OTAs, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Bill puts me in with the first team offense. Yeah. And I'm like, holy shit. Moss.

Yeah. Ben Watson. Welker. Like all these guys. And I'm like, don't fuck this up. And I remember we ran like a like shake route and I hit Ben Watson up the seam. And I was like, and I was like, all right. And you almost forget like, you got to go to the next play.

But you were like, that was kind of a welcome the NFL moment. Here I am undrafted, working my way up. And out of nowhere wasn't planned. Yeah. You're in there with the big dogs. Yeah. I know. It's 1,000.

And, well, people don't, people forget. You know who the quarterback Hoy beat out to be the backup? Kevin O'Connell. Yeah. And Coach, he was doing a tremendous job. How about him? He's done an amazing job. I don't know how much, I mean, clearly with Fox, you're probably staying up on this.

But just seeing the behind the scenes interaction he has with his team, like that's the type of coach you want to play for. He was always like that. He was always, I remember, because we used to hang out, me, him, slate, Wendy. You would come in there. But it was still a little weird with the backup. You got, you know what I mean? So I had different groups, you know, and he was always really great at, like, the camaraderie of the group, which is so important. And the mental toughness, I don't know how it was in your guys' room, but, like, he knew he wasn't better than you.

I remember, I don't know if he thought, I saw it, but I, I don't think there was any, like, animosity between you guys. And that takes a lot. And that's shown in his coaching that, you know, that mental. toughness to do what's best for the team. Yeah. Like, it's crazy that he just got rid of Sam Darnold who had 14 wins. I know.

And that's a lot of belief in J.J. McCartney. That is mental toughness. That's mental toughness believing what's best for the team. That's right. What he thinks. You know what I mean? No, it was, Kevin was great.

And thankfully, we still have a good relationship and talk from time to time. But quarterback room is unique. Only one guy gets to play. You know what I mean? I think it's probably the one room where things can be really tight and really good. Or there's times where it can be a little

friction, you know what I mean? And you try to just handle it the best way you can. I'm a non-confrontational person by heart. So I always want to make sure I get along with the people in the room and do the best you can to do that. No, I always explain to people the what I think the role of the backup quarterback is. And I always bring it to you. Yep. Like, when Hoyer was a backup quarterback for Tom, like it's not just, okay, you got to be ready to play. It's like a shoulder for Tom to lean on. a guy that he can talk to with his problems. Like, it's a whole different dynamic. It's like you have to be a,

you have to put so many different caps on as a backup quarterback. He's got to get the scout team going. He's got to make sure that the coaches are given the quarterback. Like, there's so many communication levels. Can you explain that dynamic of a backup quarterback? I mean, I look at my time backing Tom up in two separate eras, really. Because the first three to four years, I was just learning. I mean, I look back now, Jules, and you mentioned beating out Kevin O'Connell.

Like, that was the year after Tom come back from this huge ACL injury. There was no way I was ready to play. Yeah. There's just, I mean, I look back at like how little I knew, uh, where I was fundamentally. My fundamentals weren't very good. And, uh, you know, just by good performance, I end up being the backup. But I, those first three to four years, I didn't really do much for Tom. I mean, I was just learning, just, just soaking it all in.

And, um, you know, it was more like, Just be ready to play and don't get in his way. Yeah. But then, you know, I go off. I play a lot of football, different teams, learn about myself as a player, get better, and then came back in 2017. And I felt like I actually could provide some assistance to him. Like, hey, when I was playing in San Francisco, we ran this play.

Or, you know, I really learned about zone coverage from Kyle Shanahan. Like, you know, this is how that Seattle 3 is trying to play. And we had a different relationship at that point, which was great. But you're right. at that point he was a little bit older. Remember, I was practicing almost every Wednesday, sometimes Thursdays, which was great for me because I got the reps. And that made me really believe that I'd be ready to play if I had to. But it was a different role then. It was more, it was less like mentor learning. It was more like I'm here with them and I'm helping with ideas that he's

coming over the sideline. What did you see on that play? I didn't really get asked that a lot, you know, first three years of my career from him. You know, it reminds me a lot. Like with that situation. It's like a head coach that gets fired that becomes a DC OC on a team. It's so great for that head coach that hires him to be able to bounce ideas off each other because he has experience of running the ship. He knows through his experience of different situations, which you had that experience as a starting quarterback that you could say, hey, Tom, when we played him like this, you know, that's just such a huge help for a quarterback. Information is gold. And, and, and, that's what you were when I when I saw you as a backup. You had great information. Whenever there

was like like those Wednesday, Thursday practices that Tom, if he didn't want to, you know, if he, you know, he was getting that whatever, like the offense still clicked. We could still get work done. It wasn't like it was a fucking, we couldn't get the play call. We couldn't get the right throw. And early on, I don't know if you remember this, but there was an instant probably like first second year. Moss was still there. So it had to be first season. And it was late in November, early December. It was cold as shit. The wind was how we were in a stadium practice. And Tom had to take the day off. That was the playoff game. So this is the first, I know what you're talking about. That's when he fucked his thumb up. But this is like our rookie year. And Tom had to take the day off. He was

nursing to injury, whatever it was. And I went out there. I probably completed 50% of the passes. And we pull up the team meeting after practice. And Bill's like, where's Hoyer? And I'm kind of linger in the back I walk forward. He's like, how do you expect our team to have a good practice? you come out here and completely suck it off. And I was like, oh shit. But it was literally like one of those practices where you went to throw a go ball and the wind just carried it out of bounds. And it was not my finest moment.

But that was probably one of the first times I ever had to step in for Tom. But to your point, you go back and now I come back in 2017, that was what I had been accustomed to. I've been a starter in three different places. So I knew what it was like to go out and have a good practice and make sure the team kept running, which, you know, that was, it was great work for me. It was great for Tom to get the rest he needed, the recovery. And to your point, I never wanted practice to take a step down.

Yeah, you can't. Was it the most Bill ever gave you something? Was that like the biggest one? I mean, there was a few in those low-light meetings. There was the one. Remember, Tom broke his middle finger messing around Isaiah Standback before the Miami game our rookie year. And I was like, there's no way this dude's playing, like broken middle finger.

But, you know, there was Alex working on it. And he ended up playing. lost down in Miami. He threw for like 350 yards. And so the next day I was doing in Miami. I know. I was doing an event at Reebok, like a charity event. And some reporter was there was like, hey, we saw Tom's was on the injury report. Like did you think you were going to have to play? And I basically said like, look, like Tom's as tough as they come. I knew he was going to be ready to go, blah, blah, blah. The next day in meetings, Bill's like, why don't you just let Tom speak for himself and you just worry about yourself. Like you don't need to, are you in his body? Do you know

how his finger felt. And so, I mean, you learn real quick. I mean, Hoy, if anyone would be in Tom's body, it would be weird. It would be Hoyer. I don't know. Look, I didn't follow him out to California. Oh, oh. That's called a business decision. Hey, I already said. Look, there's not two people more who followed Tom around more than you and I. And like I said, I think it was a wise that we played forever. You, I mean, I learned so much and was able to implement it when I played, which is why I played as long as I did. You became, you know, his go-to receiver, the guy he trusted Super Bowl MVP. So those were wise business decisions. People can hate on us all they want. But I think the resumes speak for themselves. And to your point,

when you're an aspiring athlete, you find someone who's doing it the right way. And luckily for us, it wasn't just Tom. We had guys like Matt Light, who I know you had in here, Kevin Falk, Bruske. Yeah. I mean, so many guys that we could watch as young players and say, that's the right way to do it. One thousand percent. And what's it like watching film with Tom? What did you take from watching film in the quarterback room with Tom Brady that you took on when you became a starter or that you used when you were a backup or anything? How is film session with Tom Brady? It's amazing how he sees film. You know what I mean? And as a young player, you come in and I'm like, all right, I'm going to watch this film. I'm going to watch

the offensive plays. Like, no, he's watching for techniques of corners. He's like, all right, the stars inside. That's giving me the read that it's going to be covered two. Now he's outside. It's going to probably be covered through. I mean, the, the depth. of which he would watch film and the things that he would find, like I said, to me, that first time I backed him up was learning mode. And so then when I went out and had an opportunity to be a starter of my own, it gave me a good foundation of how I wanted my routine to be. How, like, okay, I know early in the week he's just going to watch a bunch of games. And then when it gets to Wednesday, he's getting the cutups of early downs. And then

Wednesday night, it's third down. You know, you're breaking it down. It's a lot to take in. And then the other thing, too, I remember as a rookie, uh, I forget who we were playing. and I'm like, oh, I'm going to watch this game. He's like, don't waste your time with that. Their offense is absolutely different from ours. Like, the way that the Ravens played them is going to be totally different. You've got to find teams that run a similar system to us or similar play calls. What does Garnanakios say?

Do businesses, businesses. No, fellas, same car, just different license plates. That's right, yeah, yeah. But it's funny, like, you know, for me growing up in our system, in our offense. And then the first time I went out, I played for Kyle Shanahan, completely different. Completely. Completely different. The difference is between the Charlie Weiss system that evolved to the McDaniels, Billy O, whatever you want to call, and the West Coast system that came from Bill Walsh and his running stance, Shanahan, and all that shit.

We could turn this into a four-hour show if we wanted to. But honestly, the one thing that was unique about my career was, I played in the three family trees. There's the Earhart Perkins system. There's the West Coast, the Bill Walsh. And then there's the North Turner, kind of the air chorale system. And I got a taste of them all. But the thing about the Patriot system, it really put the onus on the players. Right?

They taught you how to react. They taught you how to think for yourselves. And you went out there and we had alerts. We had audibles. We had changed the protection. change of routes, changing routes, all of these things. Whereas the West Coast is really, you talk about they're the same, what is the same license plates, they're just changing the number.

Like, it's a lot of the same plays, but they dress them up a lot of different ways. Motions, shifts, traditional groups. Yeah, try to make the defense communicate late, but really run the same plays. And so to me, I had a lot of success in Kyle system because it was a lot of run, play action, quick game, empty, things that I was really good at. And to me, if I ever become a coach, which, is probably not going to happen blending those two systems together if you can do it because it takes a certain skill set of offensive line to run that outside zone as opposed to

like our system where you're really true dropback protection guys, bigger guys who have to keep the pocket clean. Like to me, melding those two things together, which I think Kevin O'Connell has done a little bit in Minnesota. When I watch him, you see a little bit of that together. I think it's a great idea. But yeah, I learned a lot from being in all those different trees. What makes Shanahan such a good coach? Kyle is so meticulous in game planning. I mean, he literally locks himself in his office, and he watches film, and he's coming up with script.

I mean, it was pretty interesting. First 15, always? But this is, and I always gave him. What is the first 15? So first 15, come up with plays that really, you know, are going to work, and you're trying to script the game out. And this is where Kyle, I thought, was really good. By breaking down film, knowing tendencies, all of those things,

he would come up with 15 plays to really get the team off to a fast start. We talk about fast start. And when you think about it, it's kind of a great idea to really script it and try to go in with your team knowing what's going to happen. Now, we didn't always do that in New England. We had a group. Right. We had, so there's the first 15, which all the West Coast do, we had a group of like eight to 10 plays that we would pull from according to what they were doing on defense. So we had, we had smoke screens to see and feel how they were going to play us for a few while, for the,

for the first driver too. Yep. Yeah, so Kyle would script those and, you know, the thing with Kyle is he's obsessed with the run game. That was the one thing I noticed like this guy's given 45, 50 minute run game meetings as the head coach of the 49ers. And you realize that's where the basis of that offense comes from. Where I would say with New England, it's precision passing, really good dropback protection. And then our run game really varied from week to week. Like we're going to run gap this week or we're going to run lead or whatever. But like that West Coast system, everything is built off outside zone. Then you come to inside zone. You might have a few power plays. But the play actions, the boots that came off of that, which I've always been a good thrower of the football

on the run, which really suited for me in this game we're going to talk about. Wow. Now, what's the key to develop in a quarterback in the National Football League? It's funny. You ask like what I'm doing now. I do Sirius XM radio on Thursday with Solomon Wilcox. And quick snaps. And the quick snap. Yeah, with David Anders. But he has a great term for for quarterbacks in development. He's like, they got to grow in the right garden. And I think now more than ever, we're seeing guys like Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, guys who are- Resurgents. Yeah, like, and when you look at their careers,

they weren't always in the best situation or garden, right? And I think a lot of the quarterback position is about being in the right place at the right time and having the people around you, not just the players, but the coaches, the foundation. And I think sometimes young quarterbacks, especially if you're drafted high, you're not going to the best team.

And now all of a sudden, maybe those coaches, there's a lot of turnover. and it's not really, you know, a good situation to develop a quarterback. And so, like, I look at a guy like Josh Allen. I mean, early on, people weren't really sure what it was going to be. And now he's become, in my opinion, probably the best quarterback in the NFL just by work, repetition, continuity. And, you know, it's not always an exact science.

I think you've got to have the right people around the guy. Now, is Drake May in the right garden? Now he is. I believe he is. So there's a lot of miracle grow? Is that McDaniel's miracle grow? You know Josh probably even better than I do. I mean, I spent a lot of time with him, but you play with them a lot longer.

Josh is probably the best play caller ever been around who sees the players he has and builds the offense to suit their strengths. And so I think that year off and spending some time with some college offenses going out and really reevaluating. And now you get paired with Drake May. He's never had a quarterback like this, a guy that he can run some RPO, some zone reads. So I think, look, you're never going to see that in the preseason. Yeah. But I'm excited to see, especially a little revenge game for Josh, right, opening game against the Raiders.

And by all accounts, and like I said, I'm more tied into local covering the Patriots here. This kid is a pretty special kid. Is he? I think. What makes him special? I look at his attitude. And I think he's kind of got an attitude where it's like, nothing's going to phase me.

Like, if I make a mistake, I move on to the next one, which is huge for a young quarterback to have that. Short memory. Short memory. And he made a lot of mistakes. last year. But he also made a lot of plays that made you look and say, wow, like, if he can really eliminate the mistakes and keep progressing, which I think having Josh McDaniels in there, you know how meticulous Josh is. He's not going to let bad football persist. Now, now, what's it like

watching film with Josh? You know, we didn't, we didn't always watch a ton of film with Josh. It was, when we were in there with Josh, it was really going over the reeds. It was really going over protections. So I guess there was a part of film. but it was really specific, like, hey, this week, the blitz package, we got to nail this. Remember, we'd have those blitz meetings. We'd have those blitz pick up. But really watching the film was pretty quick with Josh. I think that was a big part of it was he knew that Tom and I were doing that on our own.

And we kind of knew how to handle that. And so we had limited time with him. So it was like, hey, here's the run game. These are the mic points. That was a big thing because that changed from week to week. But I'll say this, Josh's notes that we would get. and I'm pretty sure you guys would get them too. If there was ever a coach where they said, look, you have to come in on Sunday and you

haven't watched any film, you haven't practiced, but you have these notes, I could play a game. I mean, that's how, that's how meticulous and how narrowed down it was. Like what? Explain that. How? So we would get these, we would get these notes every. Yeah, I mean, not a cheat. It was kind of like, this is how we want to win the game. Yeah, I mean, basically, yeah, it is. And it would be the keys of the game.

players we want to make sure we handle and then it would get down to like the reeds impact players impact players I mean you know this and you only played for new england so that's all you know I played for a lot of other organizations and I'd be like that's it this is all you're giving us that's all that's the only that's that's that's Friday practice is in is 45 50 minutes yeah and you would go in being like man I hope it works out and I don't think we ever felt like that here we always felt like we're going to win the game because our coaches prepared us. We had a really good week of practice. And like I said, with Josh, just every day you'd get this packet. And I'd go through and I'd highlight the things that I thought were really meaningful to me. And honestly, they would break down

the coverages percentage, the blitz percentage. You'd go into the game thinking, all right, it's third and two to five. I know it's either going to be some kind of man or they're going to play cover two. That's really it. I mean, they may try to change it up and play cover three. but based off of the research we've done, like you kind of know what they're going to do. You have percentages. Percentages. Yep.

It was all about percentages. I think some other teams, it's more about, let's just worry about us. Don't worry about the defense. I don't think you can play football that way. And that was who we always kind of struggled with. It was people that would change it up completely on us.

Yeah. Like when they would give us, they'd do corners over and then jump out into a 3C and which corners over, you're usually playing man coverage. It's like, all right. You know,

but everyone knew that we had all these formation indicators so by the end they're like, fuck that. We're going to bring our corners over there and play zone. Remember, is that indie? Indy, but also think about the Super Bowl against the Rams. Remember, we game plan for two weeks based off of Wade Phillips' defense. We get to the game and they're doing exactly because they knew you were a big indicator of what they were going to do.

If we put you in slot, they weren't going to let you block the down safety, right? So we'd motion you over. They'd put the safety you the other way. And honestly, one of the greatest team moments on offense at least was basically scrapping the entire two-week game plan. And Josh coming over, remember, he's like, look, we got to put basically 13 personnel in the game if we want to get Julie in the ball. Because whenever they put James White or Rex in the game, they're playing nickel

defense and we can't really do it. So we have that long drive. They put Gronk, DA, and we spread them out. We spread them out. We're hitting you on Hostchuk. And you hit Devlin one. You hit Gronk down the seam. We ran the same play like 10 times.

But I think about that moment. And here it is. It's the culmination. of an entire season. You've had two weeks to prepare for a Super Bowl. And you get to the sideline and basically say, look, if we want to win this game, we got to throw everything out, we got to come up with a little package. And that was, oddly enough, that was the drive to win the game. And that's, that's when you see if you have good coaches is when things aren't going right, they can come up with something and give an answer right away. And that's, I felt like our coaches

always did that. Yep. We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween. Uh-huh, but fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the

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and I just wanted to call on and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling, and there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season 2 takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a combat army veteran and he actually took his own life to suicide. One tribe saved my life twice.

There's a lot of love that flows through this place and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. Don't want to have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills, and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it, if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say, like, go blank yourself, right?

It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore, to suppress, seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just, like, walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denial is easier. Drinking is easier. Yelling, screaming is easy.

Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You got any Ernie stories, Ernie Nuggets? I mean, I love Ernie. And Ernie coming in and trying to teach us how to throw football was always pretty interesting. Can you explain this? I mean, I remember being in the room and Ernie, like, it would be like a special session with Ernie. And he'd have film of like Joe Montana throwing back in the 80s.

And I'm looking at Tom. I'm like, I'm like, this is the greatest passer of all time. Like literally, I mean, obviously I've played in a lot of places. But talk about a guy who was so particular about fundamental. each year, like, working with Tom House, working with Coach Martinez. Like, this is, I'm thinking to myself, like, this guy throws the football better than anyone.

This guy, Tom Brady. Yeah. And I'm sitting there, and I'm like, an Ernie showing him film of Joe Montana on how to throw the football, which, by the way, throwing has changed a lot over the years. Like, the way I learned to throw a football is so different than really what I believe in how you throw a football now.

And it was just always funny to me. Well, to me now, back in the day when I learned, it was more like throw it like a baseball. Yeah. like really stride, bring that back right, like leg through. Now I actually relate it more to hitting a baseball. It's like jumping in it. Well, Aaron does the jump.

I think a lot of guys are really trying to get the disassociation of your hips and your shoulder. And you really want to rotate through the ball by keeping a strong front side. As opposed to when my first quarterback coach used to tell me to elbow the midget. Did anyone ever teach you that? Like, a little person, but yeah. I didn't even think about that. That's how I was taught.

It wasn't my term. A little person. A little person. But now it's more keep a strong front side, come to it. It's pretty interesting. But I always, in my mind, I'm thinking, what's Tom thinking with Ernie trying to show him Joe Montana film on how to throw a football?

So Ernie clearly annoyed Tom sometimes, right? With the Ernie cards? Oh, my God. The Ernie cards were, I remember he'll come in and look today, because he would run the scout team. He's like, we got the cross country special. I saw this guy ran it at Montana State in 1992. E2. And it'd be like a triple reverse, pitch it back to the quarterback. And honestly,

I think we can say this. We always would say with Josh, like, hey, we got a caddy today. You on the bag? Because we wouldn't know the cards. And sometimes Josh would get a sneak peek of the cards. And it'd be like this exotic overload pressure, Ernie and Bill just trying to fuck us in protection. And we would just say like, hey, Josh, just we don't need to know what it is, but just tell us something crazy's coming. Yeah. So you guys are cheating on the Ernie cards? I don't think it's cheating.

We weren't told what it was. We didn't see the card. It was more like... You may have saw the card. No, I promise you. Josh would never do that. But it was like, we would say like, hey, Larry on the bag.

Like, be the caddy today. Like, Ernie's got the cards. We don't know what it is. And just make sure that it just doesn't completely derail practice. That's, I mean, that was honestly what it could do. And same thing for the defense. Like, you'd be playing a team.

and we get a card and I'd be like, God, Ernie, I've never seen this play ever before. And he's like, look, I promise they did it. This guy was at South Missouri State. Like, I mean, you talk about research. And I don't think he was lying. I think he really would just scour for that. I think I think he would.

Look, for hours. I mean, there was some times McCordy was so pissed. He'd be like, why are you throwing the ball so deep? I'm like, look, Dev, I'm just telling you this, come look at the cards. This is what Ernie wants. You know, he's like, it's Thursday. We've already ran a ton. Like, why are you throwing it deep on every play?

I'm like, this is what Ernie's calling for, okay? Did you ever see one of those Ernie cards that proved him right? Did we ever get a nugget from one of those crazy exotic cards that like, oh, shit, it actually happened. Do you remember that? Did it happen once? I don't know about the crazy exotics. I mean, there was, look, that going back to that, that Ram Super Bowl, I spent a lot of time

with Ernie, the defensive staff, Bill, that week because McVeigh's system was very similar to Kyle's system. and and I've told this story before and I remember sitting there in Atlanta like on our off day and I saw like an article and it was like Ram inside Rams training camp and it was like an Amazon series they did and I was like let me watch this and I'm sitting there and I'm watching it and they had McVe mic'd up and he's calling the plays I'm like well this is the exact same so I kind of would give him notes and nuggets and Ernie we would script you know go over cards and I'd like Ernie they're not I promise you that's not how they're teaching it like on the slide of the

he's going to go and go in the inside shoulder. And, you know, when you go to the Super Bowl and you're not playing in the game, sometimes you feel a little left out. And so to feel like I contribute in some way that week, maybe felt like I actually earned my ring. You know what I mean? Yeah.

No, you did. Dude, get out of here. You earned you part of it. Yeah. Now, so they were pretty collaborative on when people had information. Especially like for me, like I said, I left and came back. This whole thing, they're not collaborative.

Oh, yeah. I mean, Ernie and Ben, Bill, even Bill would ask, I mean, you'll love this story. This was, what, 2018, I'm in the quarterback room with Josh and Tom and whoever else was in. I think it was Danny Etling. And Bill comes in, he's like, hey, hoie, let me talk to you. I'm like, oh, shit, you never want that. And he's like, look, like, who might be signing Josh Gordon?

Like, what do you? You play with him in Cleveland, which I thought was pretty cool. Like, here he is. He's trying to get inside. Bill was always like that. Yeah. He was always wanting to get information, whether he thought it was good, bad, and different. He wanted to hear your opinion.

He wanted to hear an opinion. And he was, you know, I think he took opinions from a lot of people. I remember one time we were playing, we were practicing against you guys. I was in Chicago. He came to practice against you guys. And I hadn't seen Bill since he cut me in 2012. So this is 2016. I have not seen him since.

Four years. And here it is after practice. And I'm walking down the tunnel to go to the visitor's locker room. And here comes Bill. And I'm like, all right, here we go. I don't know what this is going to be. And of course, he butters you up. Hey, Brian, you were great out there today.

Like great throw on that in cut. hey look like you played with clowny last year like what would you say like you know they're trying to trade him to us and like after the conversation i was like he totally manipulated me to give like a full scouting report on clowny after i haven't the last conversation i have with this guy was him cutting me in 2012 well we clearly gave him some bad information because we never had clowny well i was just being honest oh would you see we got josh gordon so you must just been buttering him up clowny i i'm not saying any poor about him but it was like one of those things where I knew he wasn't going to be a fit for New England. You know what that type of fit is. When D.Ns come into Bill's system, D.Ns hate going to Bill's system. Because it's not always about rushing the quarterback. And if you think about it, who was the head coach in Houston at the time as Bill O'Brien. And if Bill O'Brien was trying to get rid of him, it probably wasn't going to be a good fit.

This guy was a physical freak, but it just, I just, it wasn't anything poor. It was more like, Bill, honestly, I don't think it would be a good fit here. Yeah. Now, Josh Gordon, I mean, you play with Josh. gosh, like this guy was incredibly talented. And for a while, I mean, amazing run here, right? Yeah. He made some plays for us.

Yeah. Chicago, remember that in cut in Chicago? Incut in Chicago. I mean, he had like a few, we won a Super Bowl year because of his contribution. That's right. That's Chicago game was him and CP. That's right. CP.

One of my favorite teammates of all time. One of the best teammates all, all time. Just a great guy. Now, you played for eight different teams. Did this happen a lot when coaches were, girl you for information from other schemes. So you're going to laugh at this, too. I would go to other places and they would ask. And anytime I would bring up something about New England, they would kind of scoff at it. It was like they didn't want to hear ideas from New England. But if I gave

it like, hey, with North Turner, I learned this or we did this, they would be really excited about it. I think there was just, people hated us. I mean, I really think it's as simple as that. People were, first of all, it's very complicated. So what I would get in and be like, yeah, in protection, we're micing and then the line, they were like, that's just too much. Or if it was pass routes with alerts, like, hey, if it's man coverage, why don't we just alert and give this guy a two-way go?

They're like, ah, that's too much. But it was funny when I would go to places and I'd be like, I learned this with Kyle Shanahan or I learned this from Norv Turner. People would really perk up. But if I was like, yeah, in New England, we would do this. It was kind of like, I mean, we're not going to do. do that. Jeez.

Isn't that crazy? It is. I mean, so when I went to indie the one year, Nick Seriani, who's the head coach, I got him to install the read-it route. The read-it. And he was like, they do what? And I was like, I'm just telling you, it's the most innovative thing I've ever seen in the past game.

What's the read-it route? Well, you probably did it better than any other person. But basically, you know you have man coverage. And we're giving you 53 yards to work. We're going to send two guys deep outside to clear out the corners. We know that the safety single high. he's deep and Jules did it better than anybody because of his stem. He would stem in. He'd get vertical. And then you had a great feeling for where the DB was, which, look, I've never played

receiver, but I got to feel like that's pretty hard thing to do without looking at them, right? And you would have a two-way go, either back out to the corner or across on a deep crossing route. And I'm just telling you, like, for a quarterback to know what the coverage is and know that you have a guy who has that route, you just drop back. And almost in a way, you're not taught this as a quarterback. You would watch the rush. Yeah. Because I would just need to know where I need to buy time to, because we knew you guys were going to win the route. It's honestly one of the most innovative things in my 15 year career that I ever witnessed. The read it. The read it route. And so you can run a cross. So you always see the guys run the cross routes, right? The cross

routes where you go in six, you go up to 12 and then you put your foot in, get over to 24. Yep. Well, you know, you run that cross route seven times in one game. These guys start undercutting you. That's right. So this gives you the ability when they see that cross route for the third time, they undercut, you can bop out to the out and you can hit the flag or you can hit a bow on them. And so if you watch in like the Super Bowl, which is one of the first times we ever installed it, right? Yeah, I mean, in every Super Bowl.

Yeah. In every Super Bowl that you played it. We didn't have it for the first two. That's right. We had it for the last one because every. every Super Bowl I had, we'd run these crosses. And then these guys start running the routes. They're studying you too.

Yep. And so when we put this thing in where we'd have everyone run the same thing, and I'd run that cross two times. And then on the last one, I'd bop it out back. And guys would be, you'd be open by 30 yards. I mean, it looked so ridiculous when you read it right and the corner, like if honestly, more so when the corner went to undercut and you felt it and you went back out.

Yeah. It was, I mean, you can't get that wide opening the NFL. How do you as a quarterback read what he's going to be doing? The one thing that I learned, because this was like, your point. This was not part of the offense my first four years. It was when I came back in 2017. And the first one I ever saw ran was actually by cookie against, I think it was against the Steelers from the outside. That was Beaver, right? Beaver. And so we could run it from the inside or the outside. And the one thing as a quarterback, it really goes against everything you ever do.

Because like I said, you know you're going to have extra protection. So that's what Josh is great at, right? Like I'm going to chip and slam because I know I have a deeper route. Chipp and slam. What is that? So running back, hitting the defensive end, coming down. Help. Help. Help. there you go, and slam by the tight end. But for quarterback, you would almost watch the rush to make sure you knew you were safe because he's going to have time to go and work this route and you didn't want to throw this with anticipation.

You wanted to see him break out of the route and then throw it because, honestly, you knew if he ran the route the right way, he was going to be open by 10 yards. So you didn't have to anticipate at all. Which is insane in the NFL. Yeah, and just reacting to what he's actually doing. It's like backyard football.

You know the clips of Tom where he's just sitting there like this, which no other quarterback. does, right? It's because he knew. All I got to do is let Julian win or Dola win or a cookie win or whatever it is. And then I'm just going to throw it. He's going to be so wide open. I don't really have to worry about it. Everything's cleared out. We're clearing out the entire it really turned the game into one-on-one. It was one-on-one. Seven-on-seven. Yep. Is that why you ate at Super 53? That was, dude, that was on Tili, you had one. Four times. Yeah.

That was Roby, Talib. We did a beaver. We did a read it. Yep. And then you can stem those up with your underroutes because all that six-yard stem when you're going in, they don't know if you're going to go there or you're going to go up. Yeah. So that's the thing about McDaniel's offense. You got to make everything married up because there's a rhyme and reason and a counter for everything. And Jules, you, I mean, you were pretty unique as far as I think you had the most leeway running your routes than any, because Josh is very strict. Very strict. You have to release this way. You have to get leverage. But because you had an understanding of like, we talked about before, being a former quarterback coverage and all these things. Like,

you of all the receivers that I ever play with there, had the most leeway on your release, your STEM, all of those things. And I think that that was because me and Tom. Yeah, because you worked a lot. But I remember when we'd be installing those plays on Wednesday, you remember. Oh, yeah. Tom would be over in his back and he'd get his little water bottle just like that. And he's got his fucking great old man cross. And he'd look back. And he'd look I can go, hey, Charles, it's you and me, babe. You and me, babe. I got it. Yep. Because he goes, you know, if it shows to go here, there's like four other ways. And he'd be like, don't go behind the linebacker. You know, that's what Big Daniels.

And like, you know, if you're on the same page, if you do it right, and you complete it, they can't say shit. That's right. And so we did so many of those, he couldn't say shit. Well, it's like, what were you on New Heights when you were telling the story about when you weren't supposed to throw to Philly? Oh, the double pass. This guy took it to the edge and for the majority of the time he was right so you really couldn't you really couldn't say anything to him

but that's a true story. That is a true story, yeah. The night before on that one where I hit the throwback were you ever wrong in a big moment was something like that? I mean, you would know better than me. I don't recall ever like

hey Julian like went renegade and it didn't work out. Nah, yeah, it was Maverick dog. You're dangerous Maverick. Yeah, I mean, do that. So everyone knows that play what it's supposed to look like. It's the throwback.

to sweet feet for that long explain it yeah i mean that whole thing we would set this play up and you i mean you hit it like we would do the walk through with a little lacrosse ball and you of course the mischievous guy you are like go to throw it to phil and and josh like don't you fucking dare dude it literally don't you fucking dare yeah and and uh i can only imagine josh's heart rate when you threw that football and and it worked out i mean look jules there's there's there's athletes and there's football players and there's people who understand the game and credit that to your background you like you had a football awareness like some guys who maybe were more talented didn't just didn't have you know what I mean like that that awareness goes a long way when you're out

there and shit's flying around and you can feel the game yeah all right what do you say typing over there what oh okay just giving you know every show we've done 140 I know I just got I didn't know what to do when Hoy over here was, he's buttering me up. Hey man, dude, he's buttering me up. Mine games, bro. He's Bill Delechecking yet. Like, I'm sitting here thinking, like, where we came from. They wouldn't realize.

We flew. Ninety-nine's, baby. 99. This is pretty funny. How do we first meet? 2009. That would have been, like, April, May, 2009. But when?

Where? So this is, I'm getting there. So, first of all, I don't get drafted. And I'm going to tell you. You didn't get drafted. I need to give a little bit of background here. Okay. So I get, I don't get drafted. I'm like similar to like, you know, like, what am I going to do with my life? Like I banked down everything on and my agents like go to New England. He's like, look, they drafted another quarterback, but I don't think he's really going to be a, I'm like, they drafted a quarterback. I had no idea. So you were probably in Kent when that happened, right? And I was in Cleveland. And so we go to get on the plane. To go to minicamp. We go to minicamp. We land at Logan. I didn't, my first time to New England, I don't know where. I'm like, where the fuck's Foxborough? We're landing in Boston. We were. We were. We're landing in Boston. We were. We were. We were. we're down at the, and now every time I go into that baggage claim, that's what I think of is

me and you, I think you had a tucked in shirt with some khakis on. Yeah. Like coming in business, business. My agent said, hey, if they're going to hire you, you got to come in looking like you're going for a job interview. My agent sent me a packet on Bill Belichick's history. He's like, read this on the plane, know about this. Like, you grew up in Cleveland. You better know about his time as a coach there. So like, we were prepped pretty well. But that was our first meeting. So that would have been like April of 2009. And then because we were where we were, we got so much work together. We did. We would go extra in the bubble and throw after practice. We would see what we would see Welker and Tom throw extra. And so like, hey, you want to do some extra? You know, we would just copy

them. We never wanted to leave the field until they left the field. And so it's pretty wild here. You know, seven, was that 17 years later that we're sitting here doing this and. Used to get so fucking mad. I do the exact same thing that Welker would do. Oh my God. It was incredible. Explain. Yeah. I mean, like literally. Literally, I remember that it was the old jiggle route. That was what I remember this happening on. There was a route where you talk about a two-way go. You could go up, you stem in, go.

But if the guy was undercutting you, you can bounce back out. Or you could sit. You could sit. It was a lot of things to do. I'm playing quarterback six months before. But basically, like, I would be there and Tom would throw to Welker, and Welker would run the route. And then I would step up and you'd step up and we do the same thing.

And literally, I would watch and you would do, you would take like the exact steps, like in, up, run the route. and he'd be like, Jules, you can't, and I'm like thinking to myself, like, I don't know what I'm missing here because that looked exactly the same. But I think that was.

He was training me. Dude, he was. And to me, one of the greatest leadership qualities I saw from Tom, he knew who he could push. You, Gronk. He knew who he didn't,

like, if I push this guy too hard, he's going to break. And so he rode you hard because he knew you could take it. And I think he saw, you know, that there was going to be this relationship down the line.

But he was, so hard on you. So, I mean, I remember Grant coming in. We would practice a full two-hour practice. We got Grant, come on, let's go run seams for like 40 minutes. I know. I'm like, how is this guy even running at this point? Yeah, you got to break him in. You got to drag him through the dirt, make him stick like mud, boys. You got to drag him through the dirt so they stick like mud. So you guys were both brought into the Patriots in 2009 as quarterbacks. When did you realize he wasn't a threat? I mean, he never played quarterback. He never, I mean, immediately. I didn't take snaps though, I think.

I think you did. That rookie camp. Yeah, it was, remember who our center was for that rookie camp? Who? It was Brian Ference. He was a coach. Yeah, our coach. He was a coach, but he had played.

O'S he now, right? Iowa? I don't know if he's there anymore. But he was a coach on the team, but we didn't have enough line in there. So he was the center. Yeah. He was the center for that mini camp. Do you remember how hard that mini camp was?

Oh, yeah. It was, they ran this to death. One of the greatest stories from that mini camp, and I told this on Billy O's podcast, which, by the way, listening to him on yours was, I was literally, crying in tears. But that first night before the first practice, we had probably been there since 7 a.m. You do physicals. You got a team meeting. You got all the, and I'm sitting there going over the offense for the next day with Billy O. And I think this was planned. I still can't get it out of him, whether it was planned or not. And Billy had just got done telling us, telling me how our

offense goes from the passing strength to the weak side. So like we call gun spread right 66 Utah Toga. That's how we'd call the play. So he's, He's like, all right. Strait, Utah on the front, Toga. That's our back side. So he's like, all right, let me go grab a cup of coffee. So he walks out and two minutes later, Bill walks in. He's like, look, like, how's this going?

You got it down? I'm like, he's like, are we going to be able to like complete some passes tomorrow? I'm like, yeah, I feel pretty good. He's like, all right, just so you know, like everything in this offense is from the weak side to the strong side. So this would be like spread right, Toga, Utah. And I'm looking at him like, I don't know if this is like a test. like I'm supposed to go against what he's saying. I was like, all right, coach, yeah, got it.

So then Billy O walks back in, I'm like, I don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to do tomorrow because you're telling me this. The head coach is telling me this. And I think it was like, they're like, let's see, you know, if this guy's got any shit to him. Is he going to correct Bill Belichick on the first day, which I didn't.

Look at these fucking, they're just always playing fucking Jedi mind tricks for shit. I mean, God damn. Let's go back into time where this game took place. This game took place on October 5th, 2014 and go over some pop culture. Gone Girl was the number one movie in the theaters. That's Ben Affleck.

That's a scary one. I love that movie. Great book. A little scary. You didn't like it? I liked it. Those thrillers get me. I don't like,

because I got kids and stuff. Yeah. And it's kind of, it could really happen type thing. Yeah. You know, it's not like one of these like that. I know. I don't like it.

Yeah. Number one song, All About the Bass. It's all about that. Lily still loves that. My daughter. My daughter, I have a video. of her dancing to that when she was, I mean, this, she was turning one on October 15, 2014.

So she just started standing up and she's dancing to that song. So we were the Super Bowl champs, New England, Aaron Rogers was the MVP, Ohio State won the Natty, and Marcus Marriota was the Heisman. Oh, A-Rod, how do we think he's going to do this year? I think it's a good pairing. I mean, of one of my nine teams, I was in Pittsburgh after I got cut in 2012 with Tomlin. I really like Tomlin as a coach. I mean, it was a short stint.

Are they going to protect him? They got lying? I mean, we've been talking, I've been TV for five years. I feel like we talk about Steelers line every year. But is it the line or is it the quarterback? We're going to find out. But I'm saying, like, you have a guy who understands to get the ball out. He's got a quick release.

Like, you know this better than anyone. Like, you can't be a quarterback in the NFL and just be like, I'm just going to drop back and go through. Like, you have to have an understanding of where you want to go with the football before the ball snapped. And you can adjust, but you can't hang on to the football. You can't. And you also have to have a play color that can, if you're struggling at line, that can set

these things up. Yeah. Tell us about your sports fandom in Ohio growing up. I mean, it was a lot of heartbreak moments. Ohio State. Were you Ohio State fan? So I wasn't. I didn't grow up watching really any collegiate sports.

As you mentioned downstairs before, my real name is Axel. Axel Foley. My dad's from Germany. So he didn't really, he never really played football. We didn't, we love the Cleveland Browns. Yeah. Um, but we didn't really, we weren't like, is that why you and C-Bass used to like be really in like, like, close? Yeah, I always try to work my German with him. And then you guys would always kind of pick on me. Um, I mean, look, we, that's, we had a great rookie class. We did really. A lot of great guys. But, um, no, we didn't have any like collegiate allegiances because of, because of that. Um, now when I started to get recruited, I always was cheering for Ohio State because I was from Ohio, but, um, they didn't want me. So ended up at Michigan State. Uh, but it was heartbreaking. Uh, but it was heartbreaking. Uh, but it was heartbreaking. Uh, a 10-year-old kid to have your team leave, right? Cleveland leaves. They go to Baltimore,

don't have a football team. But the Indians were pretty good until they got to the World Series and lost, which was heartbreaking. The calves were never really good, but we were always hoping for LeBron. Yeah, and they ended up in them. Yeah. That was crazy when we were there. Now, Peyton broke Brett Farve's career touchdown record with 509. Game winning drive, Peyton or Brett. Who are you going? For a game winning drive, I'm probably going with Peyton. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just cerebral understanding, all of those things. Now, you were going to talk about throwing a football. Brett Farve.

Unbelievable. He could whip that thing. Oh, my God. I remember who was it? It was telling us when he was in college where he would throw these balls and he would overthrow the receivers so, like so bad. And overhead, where did he go? He went to Southern Miss.

Southern Miss. There was a wall in the back of the thing. Just dense in it. You just hear, who it would throw it and he would go like 40 yards and hit that thing. And that's all you heard. from Brett Farr. Yeah. I mean, warming up for games. I grew up, you know, and then that was like, you talk about your team that you root for

leaves. Now you're just rooting for players. So like Farr, Elway, Deion Sanders was one of my favorite players. Love Dion. We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. College football season is here. And you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three. times probably before Halloween. Uh-huh. But fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback.

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Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Fantasy season is here, and the question is, are you ready to dominate your league? Because if you're not locked in with us, Plus, the NFL fantasy football podcast, you're already playing from behind.

Every episode, we're breaking down the biggest fantasy headlines. Injury updates you need before kickoff. And matchups you can exploit to bury your competition. We're talking sleeper picks, breakout stars, and the players you can't afford to bench. Whether it's rookies making noise or veterans keeping their value, we cover it all. Whether you're drafting for the first time or chasing another championship. We'll give you the edge, the insight, and the confidence to make every move count. Weekly analysis, hot takes, and insider knowledge all in one place.

So what's it going to be? Another just okay season? Or total fantasy domination? Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I had this overwhelming sensation that I had to call it right then. And I just hit call. I said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation.

And I just wanted to call on and let her know. there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling, and there is help out there. The Good Stuff podcast, Season 2, takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a combat army veteran,

and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice. There's a lot of love that flows through this place, And it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. I don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury

because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills and I get eye rolling from teachers or I get students who would be like it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say like go you go blank yourself, right?

It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering me. you and just like walk the other way avoidance is easier ignoring is easier denials is easier drinking is easier yelling screaming is easy complex problem solving meditating you know takes effort listen to the psychology podcast on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts all right let's jump into the game jackie let's break down these tennessee should we get on the titans here real quick okay these were the ken whizzen hunt led titans

The first year of the Ken Wisden Hunt era, two and 14, not the best Titans team ever. First full season, after losing their longtime owner, Bud Adams there, finished with 10 straight losses. Taylor LeWan's rookie season, shout out busting with the boys. Pretty brutal offense and defensive rankings, 15.9 points a game average for the offense. Letting up 27.4 a game for the defense. This is 29th and 30th ranked. not great let's get into some of these dudes QB room we're talking QBs today

Zach Mettenberger Charlie Whitehurst Jordan Palmer yeah he played that game yeah yeah yeah I mean this who else did he play a lot for San Diego? San Diego yeah man he was around Delaney Walker Delany Walker another bustling with the boy's friend Clipor Jesus right huh clipboard Jesus

that's his nickname not a bad nickname I was watching rewatching this getting ready for this and he had like the long ponytail just like hanging out of the back it's pretty sick you guys ever look at like the other like quarterbacks with the clipboards? Is there anything like swag? Oh, he wore this. He did this.

Contrary to belief, like I never held a clipboard. Like in the NFL, maybe if you're in high school, I don't know. But in the NFL, you go back to like what your role is. I would, I don't know if you remember that you would be on the field, so you wouldn't remember this. But I would always be like 30 yards past the offense because I'm trying to, I know the play and I want to make sure that I'm seeing the defense. So that way, when we come over to the sideline, like, hey, on, you know, crunch

stock, it was, it was cover three. Like the guy got deep. good job taking the underneath route. Like I was really talking through the quarterback. And the one thing that always I had to be on Lurt for was if Tom's helmet wasn't working or if Josh wasn't hitting the button, which was not great because I'd be so far away. I'd be sprinting down the sideline like, Josh, you got to hit the button. He's not getting the call.

Like there's a lot of other things than charting plays. Like when we first got there, Brian Belichick charted the plays. You remember that? He'd be next to me. I'd get the play in my helmet. He'd write it down. So, yeah, I think that's kind of... So they can go for it, right?

They can go over the game right after the game. Or on the sideline. Or on the sideline. We get the pictures. Okay, he's got the play written down. I'm confirming the coverage as the play's going on. Also, like, I'm playing the game mentally. Like, because you never know, you go in at a moment's notice.

You know what's going on. You can know, like Bill would always say the game will declare itself. All right. You know, it's the scouting reports holding true. They're playing a lot of cover one and a little bit of cover two. So if I go in, I know what to expect. 1,000%. Now, when you were preparing for this Titans team,

what do you remember preparing for? Yeah, I mean, I think for us, like this was kind of when I was playing for the Browns, and this was like, we're going to do what we do. I don't remember a lot of the preparation for other teams. It was more like know the offense and go out and execute it. So, like I'm looking at this right now. Jay Mack was a good corner,

so we always had to be weary of him, which obviously- long one on them. We did, but there was a critical play in this game when I was rewatching yesterday, and I kind of vaguely remembered it. We ran kind of an option route with Andrew Hawkins. And I thought he was going to sit down.

And he saw, he took, he kind of sat and then went and I threw it. And it went to J. Mack, hit him right in the chest. Thankfully, there was offensive or defensive holding on that play, so it got taken back. Because if he picks that ball off, because of our miscommunication, the game's over.

Yeah. Decisive. That's right. Be decisive. Once you plan them, you just stay. Let's go over those Cleveland Browns. Let's get on these Browns, baby. These were the seven and nine Browns, Mike Patton-led, All-Star coaching staff here. Starr studied some names you guys will know at home.

Kyle Shanahan. Mike McDaniel was a wide receiver's coach. Aaron Glenn was a DB's coach. And then assistant DB coach, Bobby Babbage, and the notable rookie this year, they kind of hung over everything was Johnny Football, Johnny Mansell picked there toward the end of the first round. Josh Gordon, we talked about Josh

a little bit earlier this episode suspended for a majority of this season coming off that huge 2013 year These guys went 709. Can you talk about that 2013 year with Josh Gordon? It's kind of like lower in like NFL. It's wild because to be able to have the season he had

with basically the tumultuous season that the Browns had. So I started off 2013 year as the third quarterback. Brandon Weaning was a starter and Josh was suspended the first three games of that season. and so in week three we didn't i believe hurts his thumb and i walked in and like i said i was a third quarterback i wasn't expecting to like get the start and i walk in and and rob chisinski

chud who's now at bc with with billy oh he's like i'm going to let you start this game and i was like okay so i kind of leapfrog jason camel jay cam great dude and handled it so professionally and um we go up and it's josh's first week back and so north turner what Norves, what he's known for is deep, throw the ball deep, deep in cuts. He's like, we're going to throw the ball to Josh Gordon a lot. And sure enough, we did. He had a long touchdown on a double move,

hit some big in cuts, some pop passes. And then went on the next three weeks. And then I tore my ACL. Yeah, you were balling though. Yeah, it was, it was exciting. How many, you had a wing streak, didn't you? We won three games in a row. And then on Thursday night football,

tore my ACL. And, but Josh was, I mean, the next game against Cincinnati, a few big plays. Same thing the following week. And it was just a quarterback rotation. And through all of that, I mean, what was it, the receiving record for most yards in the season, I think, at the time? He had 1,600.

In 13 games. Yeah. Like 9 touchdowns. He's a freak, dude. I mean, it was like literally, he was, we actually came and played you guys that year. You guys came back and beat us. We beat you on the two-point conversion. That was the first trip I made.

That's a great game. That was a great game. I was a first trip I made with the team since Terramite. ACL because I came to see Alex and I was like I brought my trainer from the Browns and I was like I want to make sure we incorporate this into my rehab and remember Gordon he just threw a simple slant and just pulled away from Talib yeah but you guys of course we came back we were down like it was crazy we were down 14 touchdowns in the last like three minutes I think it was like two yeah yeah yeah it's definitely on our list of games yeah that's I mean I always credit that game for the 28 the our 28 to 3 yeah Yeah. Like, I remember specifically remembering that game. Yeah. And then we played the Saints that year and we beat them in the last play of the game. That's right.

Like, I was thinking of all this shit. Yeah. During like the halftime, like, we could do this, man. We could fucking do this. Of course. And that was the game where Gron got taken with a Brown's game. Yeah. Take him out.

Yeah. But, um, no, Josh was, I mean, this season, he was suspended the first 10 games in the year. So he wasn't, he wasn't at this game. Jeez. I still draft Josh Gordon on the home. hope that he, that season might happen in fantasy football. Never know. He just never know.

You were, you saw him. This guy, this guy, this guy was a beast. I got a weird one for you, Brian. We mentioned Brandon Whedon earlier. Yeah. Was it weird playing with him as like a 30 year old rookie? Yeah, I mean, he was, he was so chill, dude. It was like, he really had still like that baseball mentality.

I feel that. Like, all right, boys, here we go. Like, you know how we would call plays, like gun trips right, 64, Z option, OPEC. Like, what he'd be like, all right, gun trips right, 64. 64. A cavalier boot. All right, let's go, boy. Like, it was just like one of those things.

And I was like, man, this is so different for when I'm used to. Exactly. But he could sling it. I mean, there was no doubt about that. He could throw the shit out of the ball. Now, take this through getting signed and playing for the Browns. This is your hometown team, bro. Did you have, like, everyone at all your games?

Uh, that was wild. I mean, to, I'm sure like you, when you were a kid growing up, you probably wanted to play for the 49ers. And so for me, like, this was like a full circle moment. Like, I grew up idolizing Bernie Kosar. all of a sudden I'm signing the team and he's calling me on the phone the night after the game like hey great job on that high low on the it was like surreal um but it's it's interesting like I don't think people understand the expectation level that is expected of us as players like I'm not I don't have

any free time yeah and so people were like hey come do this come do that can you and you're like I'm just trying to figure out how to beat the Titans like I don't have I have I barely have enough time for my wife and kids yeah I I'm so glad I didn't play for my hometown team yeah because you probably would have been hassled all the time. I basically just sent out a message and I'm like, look, we get four tickets a game. Anything after that, like, I'll try to do my best, but like I'm not, it's coming out coming on my paycheck. Even at this point, I hadn't really hit like a quote unquote big contract. Like I'm basically playing on minimums. Explain to us this QB room with Johnny Menzel. Yeah. Johnny football. Look, I think a lot's been made about this. And to me, I never, there was never like

an issue or animosity between me and Johnny. Like I, if anything, I was I was more frustrated with the organization and the way it wasn't Johnny's fault that the Browns drafted him and and look he was he came in and we we I wouldn't say we were best friends but we weren't like there wasn't remember I talked about before like quarterback rooms like there wasn't a lot of tension in the room yeah especially because I was a starter and we had some packages for Johnny there was actually the one play where I actually threw the ball to Johnny it got called back for like an illegal formation or whatever but we never had like any you know bad bad blood or anything like that but how are you feeling when they go and spend the number one

or first round you know yeah i was i was not happy at all i mean um because you guys were six and three at this time right yeah but in this season yeah um look it was it the browns are an interesting organization and the owner and at the time now this came out you can fact check this like the GM was texting coaches during the game like hey do this do that a lot of it had to do with like we should play johnny at this point and so when petton actually brought me in um to tell me that they were going to bench me and play johnny he's like this is a battle i've been fighting for a long time like we've we've wanted to have you be the quarterback and it's just at this point we have to we have to move in this direction so do you think this uh owner was the guy who pulled the

trigger on chador i don't know that's an interesting one because it's like you would think you'd learn from like past mistakes. But I think there's probably a part where like you just can't help yourself either. You know what I mean? Prounds going to brown. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's pretty incredible because at least they made the smart decision and went with Flacco, right? Yeah. For this year. One thousand percent. Who are some of the fun guys on this team? Yeah, we had some great, great teammates here. I'm just looking Joe Thomas, obviously, Hall of Famer. Joe T. Not just like a great player, but just like a dude. He's, He'd be like a guy for dudes on dudes.

Just like, oh, heck yeah. Come in, do his business. We had a little beef once on TV. Did you? Really? Not really, but it was, I remember. He was commentating? We were doing, I was doing one of the, the thing after a game once.

Yeah. Where you go on the set. And he was saying something. And Steve was wet right next to me. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he was saying something about running the football. I just looked at him like, what are you telling us about how are we supposed to win, dog? Yeah.

I looked at him like, really? But then Steve jumped and he goes, get him, Jules, get him. There you go, yeah. I didn't know if that was just Joe. He was like six players. He's got beef with. We'll never have a show off. I got beef with all of them too, then.

You would like him. I mean, I would love him. The one thing you got to realize about Joe, he was like a first ballot hall of famer on a team that never won. I know. I feel bad for him. Imagine going into your job every day knowing you're the best at your position and you're

probably not going to do well. No. Like your team. He's like a sweet dude though. You can just tell he's like a sweet man. Yeah. Wisconsin. Like a great.

guy. Probably freaking nice, probably always had the young guys at his house. Hosted a great Halloween party. Like he was, he was honestly like, when you think of a team, you don't want like your leader to be an offensive alignment, but just because they kind do the dirty work. But he was the leader of that organization for a long time. And he took that role on. Like people would look to him to give the pre-practice, post-practice, pre-game speeches. And he embraced that role, which is why he was such a good player. But also, I look at our little receiver group right there. We had some fast dudes.

Travis Benjamin. Gabriel. So fast. Taylor Gabriel, Andrew Hawkins. Benjamin. Hawk was, I think. He played with us for a little bit. Right. Jordan Cameron,

phenomenal. I remember I text you when you were bawling out with him? I was like, what's up with this dude? Do you like them? Well, I was going to say, like, you almost,

I tried to push for you to be a part of this team that year. Tell him, explain this story. So this was, I think this was the year where they had signed Dola, right? They signed Dola. And you were pissed and you called me up. You're like, tell fucking Cleveland. I'll come.

They just got to just tell them I need an extra hundred grand over what New England's. And so I went straight to like Kyle to the head coach. I'm like, Edelman wants to come here. Like we got to make this happen. But you probably, that was probably when you took the visit to the Jets and they got a little worried. Giants. Got a little worried up here. They re-signed you.

And look at you guys. What was this? 14? No, 15. This was 15. Yeah. I took the Niners.

I went to the Niners. Okay. I sat down with Harbaugh. Yeah. And I just recently saw Harbowl. Yeah. We did the exact same thing that we did when we met that day. We just threw a dip in and we just talked about absolutely nothing other than football.

Like nothing to do with like the scheme or anything, just like life. What kind of dip was he doing? He was a Zen guy, but he did take some of my Copenhagen once I showed him that I had some mint in California. You got a restricted flavors, right? Oh, you had that contraband. You know, I bring that bootle. I got a bootlegger. I got a bootlegger.

Hey, that was funny because I remember you calling me. I was so bad. We would text and stay in touch, but I'm like, he's. calling me. This must be something. You're like, fucking, they're low balling me. They just signed Dola. Like, tell them I'll come. That was 13 then. Just an extra 100 K to live in Cleveland. Come on, man. Well, it was, this was for the one-year deal that I made. I was super hurt. Yeah. I've been grinding my balls off doing everything they say and then they just fucking go sign someone else to just do everything that I wanted to do. But that's fucking NFL.

I became good friends. So that's right. That's right. 1,000%. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like you and Dola like thick as these now. We were thickest things. We were thickest before. Yeah. You know what I mean? But no, Jordan Cameron was a phenomenal tight end. He was like a true receiving tight end.

You didn't want him to block power or whatever, but he had some great catches in this game. Let's see who out. Joe Hayden, a great guy, just like full of energy. Jim Leonard, who's now become a really good coach.

Jordan Poyer went on to be, you know, with those vaunted Buffalo Bills. Yeah. He was there. Safety. Our safeties. Him and Hyde.

Yep. Micah Hyde. We had a good team. I mean, you know, we fell short at the end of the year, but we probably overperformed for a while. The big one, Alex Mack was our center. And the best, he's probably one of the best centers of all time. And we-

People don't realize that. Yeah. Kurtz, one of my best friends roommate in college. In that system, everything ran through the center in that system. And then a few weeks later after this, he got hurt. He was out for the year. And we just never could rebound from that. Those fucking, the Browns can grab,

they can draft line. linemen now. Yeah. No doubt. They've drafted some great linemen. Quarterbacks? How many quarterbacks? I'm on that jersey of like, the jersey with every quarterback name is wild. How many starting quarterbacks can you name from the Cleveland Browns? Holy shit. It starts with Tim Couch, right? I believe so. It's like Tim Couch, Detmer, Kelly Holcomb, Spurgeon Win. Oh, you're right on the money here. I'm trying to go back in time. Bernie Cozhar. Well, no, he's on. It's when then Browns restarted. Oh, restart Browns.

Oh, restart Browns. Yeah, like expansion Browns. Doug Johnson, I think,'s on there. Yep. Charlie Fry. See, Fry. Shout out. Yeah, that's your guy, right?

Who else? Obviously, me. I'm just going to go with the era that I was there. Me, Weiden, Campbell, Mansell, Josh McCown, Jacoby Brissette. Damn, boy. God, dude, there's a lot. I mean, I'm not even going to get half a couple in here.

No, let him keep a couple in here. No, let him keep. Go on. Let me see. Let me keep going. Um, what was the guy, the quarterback from, uh, from USC that played there for a long time. I can't remember his name. USC. Um, yeah, he played for a while. He played for a while. No, I, uh, McCoy. He was there for a while. Um, Anderson. Anderson. Anderson. He was good. He was he was, he was took him to the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then he went to, he like disappeared. He went to Arizona, but he's there. He was in Carolina. He was in Buffalo. He was in Buffalo. He was in Buffalo. for a little bit. He's a huge dude. Got him. Now I'm losing track. Well, since then, RG3,

Baker, which that's wild. I mean, you talk about a miss. I mean, to me, Baker's on the borderline of starting to become a top five quarterback. I mean, when you look at, there was a, there was a thing I saw, and you already got on me about checking, like fact checking Instagram, but they basically put side-by-side stats, him and Mahomes. Now, Mahomes has won it. But when you go by stats, yeah, Baker actually has the edge over. I think it's like the last two or three years or something. Yeah, but the last two or three years has been the most magic for Patrick Mahoney because he hasn't had the receivers. That's true. No, I'm not saying he's better than Mahomes. No, no, no, I know. But like, if you're the Browns, you've totally botched that one.

Yeah, dude, that was, um, it's all about that garden you're growing in. That's right. That's right. Take as far as you can. Give me a few more. I can drop you. Okay. Oh, God. Tyrod. Jeff Garcia. I love you. Garcia. That's right. Oh, my Trent Dilfer. Both McCown. So I got two for that one. Dillfer, Brady Quinn, how do I forget him, Gradkowski. Seneca Wallace. Seneca. Jacobi. Thad Lewis. Yeah, I said Jacoby. Yeah. Winston, Zappy, Driscoll. I mean, this is unbelievable. Connor Shaw. Connor was a baller, dude. He was. He was. He, um, I'll tell a funny story about, uh, Connor. So he, he had played for the old ball coach down at South Carolina Spurrier. And, um, he played a voicemail for us one day during training camp. He's like,

hey, Connor, I know all the hype's about Johnny Mansell, Johnny Football. But just remind him, Connor Shaw could play football now too. And it was just like hearing Spurrier's voice, leave this voice message. What a great coach. Yeah. What a great coach, man. I never had. I wish I had a coach that would send me a nice little message like that.

Yeah. He's probably on the practice field shirt off, visor on. Did we touch some of these like all-time college quarterbacks? Brady Quinn, Ken Brissy, Colt McCoy. Yep. Case Keenham. Seneca Wallace. Seneca.

Iowa State. Fla. P.J. Walker. P.J. Walker. Jeff Triscoll. James Winston. And Bailey is that. Total.

It's like it says it's 40. 40 since they came back. Yeah. Yeah. And how many years have they been back since, what, 99, I think? They left in 95. They left in 95 with Bill. And they went to the Ravens.

And the Baltimore Colts. We got to do the jersey meme. We got to show them these guys, right? And you might add a couple this year too. Oh, I mean, yeah. There it is right there. I got crossed out the list. That was, that was like,

they're halfway there at that point. Isn't that crazy? That is all, man. This could be its own episode. Did you ever think this staff would produce that many good coaches, though? Oh, yeah. I mean, we, I knew, I mean, crazy some of these shitty teams that have these crazy staffs

that go on to be great coaches everywhere else. Yeah. No, Kyle, I knew right, right off the get-go, he was a good coach. Aaron Glenn, like, just the type of guy, you're like, this guy's a former player. gets it high energy like it doesn't shock me at all that he's become the coach that he has bobby badget babich who was just a young like was my coach at kent state he was bobby babbage was

my he was the g a kent yeah so he was basically this is probably his next step up dc of browns are bears now yeah and so um and who else was on that staff that we saw um petton i always thought was a great coach um he he had been a good defensive coordinator for the bills funny enough so that game I tore my ACL on in 2013 was against the bills. Like a few weeks later, I'd get a card at, like, at work. And it was like, it was from Mike Petten, not knowing that he was going to be the head coach there next year. He was like, hey, you know, hope for a great recovery.

You were tough to prepare for. You're a great player. You'll bounce back. And so, like, when I saw him, now he's the head coach. I'm like, dude, this is pretty cool. Yeah. A coach, an opposing coach to send a letter. Yeah, Mike McDaniel.

Mike was young back then. He was the receiver coach. Obviously, became a head coach. So, I mean, there's three current NFL head coaches. And there's coordinators, too. Yep, and coordinators. Jeez. Wow.

We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. College football season is here. And you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times probably before Halloween.

Uh-huh. But fear not. The solid verbal will be right there with you through. Every soul-crushing loss, an impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. We don't just love college football tie.

We live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I had this, like, overwhelming sensation that I had to call it right then. And I just hit call, said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation, and I just wanted to call on and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season 2 takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission.

I was married to a combat army veteran, and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice. There's a lot of love that flows through this place, and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. I wouldn't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. and I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head.

Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fiorio, and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Fantasy season is here, and the question is, are you ready to dominate your league? Because if you're not locked in with us,

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from teachers or I get students who would be like it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say like go you go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. ignoring is easier, denial is easier, drinking is easier, yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort.

Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you dive in this game real quick? Take us into the game. All right. We know the story of this one, the other 28 to 3, the OG 28 to 3. First off, we get this thing started. You got to have the deficit. before you can have the comeback.

So in the first two drives of the game that Tennessee has the ball, two straight scoring drives, Locker right, locker on an 11-yard keeper. It's 14-0-0. Cleveland tacks on a field goal. Moving into the second quarter,

here's where things start to turn a little bit. Jake Locker knocked out of the game, enter Charlie Whitehurst. But he finishes off the drive, 11-yard touch, another one to Kittle right. Then a 75-yard bomb right after that. We're at 28 to 3. But we talked about this a little.

bit earlier. The big drive at the end of the half, 90-yarder drive, Jim Dre, now we're 28 to 10 going into the half. Can you explain the importance of that last end-a-half two-minute drive? Well, you know from, it's the double up, right? It's basically score before the half, knowing you're getting the ball coming out of halftime. And it really can be, I mean, a big swing. And so for us, it happened to be, I guess, a 10-point swing. But I just remember being on the sideline. And looking up and it was like, it was 28 to 3 midway through the second quarter. And I remember Kyle saying like, look, we're just going to run our offense. It's too early in the game for us to just abandon like our. And as I said before, that offense was really based on play action,

run game, all of those things. And so I think the past to get that drive started, we ran what we would call like a blaze out. It was kind of like a speed 25 yard out with Travis Benjamin. Okay. Off of a hard play action pass. Like a deep bow. Like a deep, deep bow. I think we tried implementing those in our offense that just never took root. Because they would never back. We never had guys that would just open the gate. Yes. They would squat on the,

you know what I mean? They would squat on it. So then I would cut it. We would still get open. I'd still flip his hips, but it would be a 17, 18 yard. This was basically that route, but about another 10 yards deeper.

And that really, you know, that's a chunk play right there. Got the drive going. Got a few runs. A few, if I remember correctly, a few boots that I got on the edge completed.

Actually, I think I hit a double move. to Miles Austin. That was a cool dude. I didn't see him on that roster. Yeah, he was there. He was, that was old, mild Austin, though. This was after Dallas, right?

Yeah. He was a monster, huh? I used to love watching him play. He was good. He was a great pro and hit him on a double move. And so getting that touchdown before half, like going into half, 28 to 10, as opposed of 283, which you guys went in a half at 283. 213.

213, okay. And they came to scored. So that was huge. And then opened up the second half with. like I said, a boot, double move, Taylor Gabriel on our boy J-Mack. How great was that stack by Gabriel? He did stack them. Like, that's like the definition of how you want to stack the defender.

And the stacking is putting his body in between the defender and the ball. It creates that little cushion. Yep. Like that was, like, you threw it right there. He gave your room and he stacked him. That was a fucking great throw. Like, Hoy, I just, I was so proud of watching this game. I, you were sitting in there, you took your hits.

Yep. I mean, you were balling this time. It was so unfortunate that this, you know, this was your, you tour yourself, because you had a lot of juice going, man. Yeah, no, this was. And that's how crazy the league is, right? It is. It could just, it could be taken like that.

Yeah, it goes quick. That's right. And, but no, to your point, like the locker room, first of all, scoring that touchdown, you go in, people are like, okay, we're heading in the right direction. But like I said, same thing on the sideline. Kyle's like, look, we're just going to run our offense. We're going to run the run plays.

We're going to run the play actions. We're going to run the boots. Now, a big factor in this game, and it's there, was the pump block. That was, I mean, you and I both know the stats on that. You block a punt in a game. It's like 80% chance. Yeah, it's like your chance. So I think people, like, the momentum kept growing.

They weren't really doing anything. And we kept battling back. Why do you guys? Like, what? No, it's something just, the pun block. Yeah. Well, something just dawned on me. Sorry.

Go ahead. Do you think Kyle? Shanahan knew, like, remembered this game on the opposite side of the field in the 28 to three game and knew that it was possible. Yeah. It could be. And especially, is that why he was just running the offense and the back end of that game? The shoe is the other foot. I mean, it could be. It could be. See, that's what I always think with those West Coast offenses. They don't know how, they can only play one way and that's from ahead. I agree with you. And then once they get ahead, their four minute, like, their four minute is never really like the

greatest because they don't have the drop. I don't you. What is it? What? So you're, I mean, look, you're right and haven't been in it. There's just, look, there's only so much time you have, right? And if you, if your system is built off of run and play action, that's where you're going to devote the majority of your time. So for instance, in like, OTAs, do you think we ever in New England had run, run game periods? No, everything was passed. It was seven on seven. It was team pass. It was all of those things. Because that was at the core of our offense. Yeah. How many different protections do we have. Like 10. Right. 10 different protections. So you got to work all of those things. Probably like eight. 60s, 80s, 80s, 50s, 90s. Yeah. Like we had a lot. Quick. Whereas, so I would say the West

Coast system, you're going to put a lot of your emphasis in the run game because everything comes off of that. And so I think if you're playing from ahead, you're in control. Now, this was obviously an outlier here because we were far from behind. We were far behind. But for whatever reason, they kept honoring the run. And so we had a lot of great play action passes in this game. There was some dropback, too. I mean, the game winning touchdown was down, kind of bought out of the red area, and they P rushed us.

So that was one of the lessons. What does P mean? P means they're dropping a defender and they got 90s covered. But what is a trigger for us as players? Time. Take patience. You know they're not going to get to you. And so Benjamin.

Depth and spacing. Tom hated the P-rush, right? Hated them in the red area. Right. Because there are so many guys back there. That's what Ernie just said. We had Ernie on the other day. He goes, if I wanted to get under Tom, I just had to pee drop him.

That's right. Because Tom's not going to take off and run. And that's why a lot of guys don't get pee anymore. But what would he do? He would thumb you. I mean, no, you ever see any quarter. Thumbing, they call it. So, like, when you see the quarterback on like a scramble drill,

you saw a lot of Tom, which we would practice. You would see Tom thumb you a direction, go this way. And that was telling you to peel off. And you see a lot of quarterbacks did it. I think someone did it this preseason, a young quarter. back. Really? Wow. Yeah, I mean, that was something I was like, he just thumbed him. Yeah, I had never really seen that before. And you, it's like when you have a three man rush, so it's five on three, those guys are really never going to get home. And that's what the Titans did on this game

winning touchdown. And Benjamin basically had a deep return route. We had a concept where he had a deep return, which you know, like, unless you have a three man rush, you're really not going to have the time to get to it. And so I'm going through my progression, like, boom, boom, there's an extra guy there. And all of a sudden, he bounced back out. and got free, and it was high in the back end line. Is that a thumb? It was no, it was just a naturally built-in, natural thumb. Natural thumb because he had that go in, sell it back out.

What happens in the moment when it's like, you clearly have a play, like, plan with all the reads and all this stuff? And then it's like, when does that go out the window when it's a broken play or when, you know, coverages last, like, when does that switch in your brain? It's a feel. It's a feel thing. I think, like, in this instance, and I remember you can see these things happen before the play because the linebacker's coming up.

He's tapping to De-Lyman, and you can hear him like, hey, you're drop. Like, people don't realize how much stuff you hear when you're out there. Yeah. And so, like, I knew, like, all right, there's a good chance. This is going to be a three-man rush. Take your time. Like, don't zoom through your progression because much like Tom, I'm more athletic than him. I probably wasn't going to run the football in.

And there's a time where there's a natural timing of the play and he knows it. Everybody knows it. Quarterback clock. Yeah, there's a clock. And then at a certain point, you're like, all right, there's nothing. I got to move on. I got to either step up and move to the right, the left. I got to do something because.

as good as the lineman can be, there's only so long that they can hold up. It's only so long. And even like, even that clock in your head, like for the quarterback, like when they're sitting there, it's like,

I'm here too long. I need to fucking change. Yeah, you feel it. You feel it. Like, you know, you feel Miles Garrett coming from behind. You see fucking,

you know, Sunoo or whatever, you know, a big ass D tackle coming from the front. Like, there's, there's times too, where you feel,

you can feel the pocket. right but when you wait too long you don't know who's retracing you there's stuff that now they're behind you you can't see so it's definitely a clock and sometimes it declares itself where you're sitting there and it opens like the red sea and you're like well i'm gonna i'm gonna take that route and keep my eyes on the field to see if anybody opens up what was the play that stuck out the most in this game that were you said we can come back so there was a uh obviously i mentioned the block punt but on offense on offense there was a play i believe fourth quarter and we run a, so that's the other thing.

The one thing I failed to mention, we're going to run our offense, but we're going to go no huddle. No huddle. So we did a lot of no huddle on this game. Yeah. And it was literally different than how we would do no huddle. We kind of broke it down to like four formations.

And I'd hold up the number. Like one was like Dolphin Wright or two was like, you know, spread. Spread, whatever. And everybody got lined up. And then we had our code words. So we were moving pretty quick. And I think a big part of our success was they were gassed. Yeah.

We were good. We kept going. and there was a no huddle drive and we kind of ran we were in like zero flood slots so the two receivers were over the side and we ran a boot and the Y ran a corner route

and then we had like basically like double post and I came out and everyone was covered and Phillips was their defensive end he kind of like beat me to the punch and then you stopped and I came back it was almost like a thumb yeah and it was and I literally was like looking back like oh my God there's no one open

and I did the hop jump and through it and when we ran off the field there I was like we got this We just, we just, if we get another stop, and then there was one other throw when I went back and watched this, that was risky as hell. And we ran like, um, you remember dribble, like where the, the slot and the outside guy would block for the tight end, like a little mini screen. Yep. We ran that and that was for zone. And the backside was basically like de-slan, a diagonal and a slant.

That was for man. So they line up in zone. And I go to throw the dribble. It's like a little screen to the left. And I think our tight end got like not hammered back. So I couldn't throw it. So I can't go back late. I whip back blindly.

Late. And through the slant, like second window to Miles. I mean, it was probably, and then he split it. Split it. It was probably the hardest throw I've ever thrown in a game because the window is like this. Yeah. And that play really kept that game-winning drive going. And what do you need?

You need two things on a game-winning drive or two-minute drive. What are the two things? Chunk plays. Get the drive started. There you go. There you go. Chunk plays get the drive started. I should have said it the other way.

Yeah, get the drive started and get them in their two-minute defense. Get them started. A few chunk plays, which really save you the time. That was the biggest thing, like, you talk about learning from Ernie and Bill, thing you don't really think about as a young player. Like, yards are more, or time is more valuable than yards. So, like, you drop back in a two-minute drill. Look, Hoyer, if the guy's in the fucking flat, right,

just throw it in the feet. Just fucking throw it in the ground. You know you're in four-down territory anyways. Like, you'd rather, instead of take a five-yard checkdown and lose, what would they would say like it'd be like 30 seconds you'd lose you'd rather throw it at his feet take another play and take a chance at a 10 to 15 yard completion exactly to put a bow on this bad boy Cleveland blanked him in the second half a 16 point fourth quarter wow got him over the top two touchdowns of Travis Benjamin man that was sick um and the block punt we talked about ended up

winning this thing 29 28 took the lead with a minute nine seconds left on that Travis Benjamin TD Hoyer went 20 21 of 37 for 291 yards, three TDs, one pick, but that was more like a punt, so we're not going to count that way. That's right. I remember that, yeah. And, uh, biggest comeback in Brown's history, biggest comeback in NFL road history.

I mean, pretty incredible. And you say you just got to believe. You just got to believe. Yeah, you didn't even have Dola there to say that. That's right. That's right. Now, what did, what it feel like when you hit zero and the fucking,

you got to the top? Yeah. What that feel like. That was elation. I mean, it's funny, like going. Elation. What a good word. Preparing for the.

I know at Michigan State Education. I wanted to go back and watch it and kind of just relive it so we could talk about it. And the biggest thing I remember, like it was a blur. And of course, like, you had to do the post game interview on the field, headset, like,

and get back to locker and the whole team's waiting for you, water bottles or, I mean, it was just one of those moments that, like, as I get further and further away for football, I'm like, that was a good moment in the career. Nothing cures anything like winning. No. I'm right.

That's what they say. Winning cures anything. Remember when Bill would be like, look, with all due respect to like Thanksgiving or Christmas, the best thing we can do for our families is win. And it was true. It was true. It made everything better. It made the turkey taste better.

It made it all worth it. Made Christmas morning better. I mean, we could sit here. Do you remember our rookie year, we had to practice on Christmas morning? Yeah. And I kind of liked it, though. I didn't have our family here. This is, and I know you had Matt Light here yesterday, so this was what made me think of the story.

So Bill was like, all right, look, like, I know it's Christmas. Why don't the veterans get together and decide, like, when you guys want to come in? So, of course, Matt Light, like, holds court. And after practice, Bill's like, what did you guys decide? And Matt's like, 11. We want to come in at 11. And Bill's like, 11. Look, I had young kids once too.

They're up at 7. The presents are opened at 7.30. I'll see your asses at 9 tomorrow. Like, basically, like, ask Matt to talk to the other players, decide what time you want to come in, Matt in his, in his like infinite wisdom was like, yeah, 11, 11. And Bill was like, fuck that. Like, I'll see you at 9. I mean, fucky. Or the Christmas story when we, you and I come in and Randy's sitting there talking on his phone to his mom. Tell me. And so it was my locker, Julian's locker, Randy and Tom. And we were young. And so to your point, like, don't have kids.

Like, I'm like, this is awesome. Like, I'm going to go play football on Christmas with my team. Like, We were in there early. Early. And we walk in and... I was like happy, jolly. It's Christmas time. And I think you would just come out of the training room. You were probably getting like treatment or whatever.

And Rainy's like talking to his mom. Like, hey, Mom, Merry Christmas. And Julian goes, is that Mama Moss? Oh, tell her I said, Merry Christmas. Like jovial, cheerful. And this is literally my recollection. Randy's like, hold on a second, Mom. Hey, Julian.

When I'm talking to my fucking mom, just shut the fuck up. I was like, very fucking good. I heard that. I almost cried. Yeah, I mean, we were just bleary eye, like, so happy. I mean, for you probably the same. Yeah. We were just, I was so elated to, like, be a part of, like, this great organization.

1,000% and around these great players. And it really, there's a lot of great memories. Well, the aftermath of this. Yep. Johnny Mansell makes his start in week 15. Hoy tears his ACL. The Cleveland Brown snapped a seven game losing streak. First road wins since September 2013. That's a lot of good shit. Not a bad way to snap a road losing streak. Yeah. Seriously, I don't even know. I don't think I even realized that because I had only been there

for two years. This is like one of the best. There's always a good gem of a regular season game. This was a great pick by Brian. I mean, one of my favorite picks we've had in a while. I kind of thought I'd throw you off and say, hey, the 28 to 3 game. And you would. sitting there like, what the fuck is this guy talking? We already did that with like 10 different people. I will say this. When you guys threw up the stats of the Titans that year, I don't feel as good about being down.

Still 25 point. You said they won two games? 22 and 14. Yeah, I mean, shame on us for getting down the way we did. Because actually, I think we went on like a pretty big winning streak after this game. You went six and three. Yeah. You were six and three.

This is here, you want to talk about like the pitfalls of the NFL. We go down. We're playing Cincinnati on the road on a Thursday night game. They had basically won the division, right? That was Andy Galton, A.J. Green. I heard about this game. Yeah. The Hoyer chance at the end.

Yeah. And so, like, we're sitting there. We beat them. We whipped their ass, too. Like, like, we went in. There we go. You're going to get to that. And we whipped their butt.

And it's Thursday Night Football. So similar to you, like, when you had your issue with Joe Thomas. I didn't have an issue. So I go up on the stage after the Thursday Night Football game, and you know who's sitting. right next to me, Dionne Sanders. The kid I idolized as a kid. I had the 21 jersey, Dallas jersey,

and he's up there. The fans are right there in front of their channel. And Dion goes, you know what the Browns need to do? Pay this man. I remember that. I remember thinking to myself like, oh my God, this is, this is it. Like, this is the endorsement I need from the media.

Because it had been like, all right, when are they going to play Johnny? Here's my idol saying, pay this man. I was benched like three weeks later. Yeah. Damn. I know. Isn't that? Like, you talk about like,

Highs and lows, and the low of lows. The football guns are slap you down. Amen. Speaking of Cincinnati, I would be remissed if I didn't mention a game that took place later on in this same day. They were on to Cincinnati game. Oh, okay. Fuck it. See, Hoy. 43. You're connected and everything, boy. I am. Boy, you're connected. One week after Trent Dilfer said they're dead. They're, fuck. Brady's done. Let's go. Let's name the game and score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Now, Hoy, these are some. of the names that we came up with. We came up with the Music City Meltdown, the Cleveland comeback,

the other 28 to 3, the OG 28 to 3, Hoyer did it first game, or anything else. I like that one selfishly, but I'm not a selfish guy, so I don't want to put my name on it. I'm going to say the OG 28 to 3.

It has a little rhyme to it. I like that one. It keeps, you know, I like to remind you and Tom and Dola that I did it first. Yeah. You guys didn't on a bigger stage, but I did it first.

Well, let's get into it. Let's score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score. Decimals encouraged, Hoy. They're encouraged. Stakes of this game in the regular season. The other 28 to 3, 0 to 10, 10 being,

you just won your 8th Super Bowl in a row. Yeah. In the grand scheme of the league, it's probably not very high, but for us as the Browns, I would say it was, if we lose this game, I think we dropped to 1 and 3.

We had beat, I think, our first game, we beat the Saints. The second game was honestly one of the best games in our career, but we lose to Joe Flacko led Ravens. They come back and beat us. So if we lose this game, we drop to one in three, I'm probably getting benched after this game.

Yeah. So I'm going to say it's like a 5.2 in the stakes of the Cleveland Brown. It was important for us to win this game, especially in the fashion we did. That does up the stakes. You know what? I'm going with the 6.3. I think it was higher than that because this was my,

I remember watching these game. I remember because Hoy was my dog. And so I would always watch them when we were out there, see him dicing people up, and Cam Jordan and shit. Great example of that. Not Cam Jordan. Jordan.

I always get this like it fucks me up every time. It's fucked a lot of people up. You know the story of that, right? Cam told us. They literally, the Browns called Cam Jordan in that draft. Like, hey, we're drafting you. And he's like, well, I just got drafted by the Saints.

Whoever Brown's going to Brown. Yeah. They had it backwards on the on the card. Like, thank God they didn't submit it. Brown's going to Brown. I got our power, Hoy. Hold on Jackhead. I had a 3.4, a little low.

Yeah. You didn't hear my person. I didn't hear the perspective. If you had told me how important it was to us at the time, maybe it goes up. But in the grand scheme of things, I mean, this is two non, a two and 14 team and what, a seven and nine team? That's not very. Thanks for feeling my pain, way. I had a 2.1 from a fan perspective, not an inside baseball.

The star power of this game, zero to 10 decimals encouraged. I'm going to even go lower on this. Like, let's go 3.8. See, I think that's, I think that's a little low, Hoy. I think it's probably like a 4.9 to 5. I'm going to go 52. Okay. because you've got like three head coaches on this goddamn staff.

You got a bunch of going coaches as well. I think I saw Drew Carey in the fucking crowd. He might have been there. Big Cleveland guy. Cleveland Rock. I'll also Joe Thomas Hall of Famer. I'll bump it up to 4.8. I mean, Johnny Manzo is a star.

He's a star. But I didn't think about the coaching aspect of it. I mean, this football, baby, it takes a whole. I had a 5.7. I was in the same ballpark. Three current NFL coaches. I was just thinking of players, my bad. Gameplay of this game, which.

It's fucking incredible comeback. Yeah, I'm going to go with a 7.9. 7.9. Even that's pretty modest. That is. I'm going to go, dude, you had a blocked punt. Yeah. You had some big crazy chung plays.

Unanswered. I loved this game. I think I'm going to go with a 7.6. Okay. Look, I'm seven. Four, Jules. Same building. I'm sitting here with the guy who did it in the Super Bowl.

So I'm a little self-depreciation. like no we've already touched stakes this is now just gameplay that's gameplay that's game yeah it's game play okay now the name of the game which I didn't realize that there was another one but that is a pretty free that that's pretty cool the OG 28 to 3 little little rhyme to it I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give that at 8.9 8.9 I can I just interject here which is honestly the coolest thing that came from this game so the NFL Hall of name. They have like a year in review display at the Hall of Fame. And because this was the largest road comeback in NFL history, my jersey and Travis Benjamin's jersey and his cleats were on display

in the Hall of Fame. And I was able to drive down with my wife and kids and see that. And so although I'll never make it into the Hall of Fame as an inductee, I think you will. I think you will. And you can be modest. I really do think you deserve it. But to have that moment and have those pictures, there's, like we, we were just in Cooperstown for my son's baseball tournament, and we went to the baseball Hall of Fame. And I pulled up the picture and I showed my son. I said, do you remember this? And he goes, kind of. I said, yeah, I, that was, we went to go see your dad's jersey in the Hall of Fame, which is pretty cool. That's amazing. Yeah. Man, fucking Hoy Dog. You'll be there. I'll be there at the induction party. Get out of here. Yeah, baby. The name of the game,

the OG. You're coming into the, the Patriots Hall of. That's the first step. Hey, well, this is about you, Hoy, dog. This about you. The name of the game, the OG 28 to 3. I'm going to go, I got a little ring jingle. I'll go with a 7.6. Okay. Now you guys are given at... 7.2.

Okay. I have 3.1. A little low, but I... That's a little low. That's lower. That's lower. I don't care about the puns with the actual name.

It's like the culture of relevance. How much do I think about this game, like, on a daily basis? You probably hadn't thought about this at all. I think about this, like the Fiesta Bowl with Oklahoma versus Boyce State, like, every night. right so that's high so that's how i think about the roman empire that's your roman empire yeah that's about the new roman empire here in boston have you watched this guy play who roman anthony baseball player is he good he's nice with it dude they just gave him 120 was a hundred and twenty eight million

yeah and they're saying that was a seal that was a deal i mean he's 21 so probably hadn't made a lot of coin yet let's go dude he's unreal dude they they were whooping on those yankees last couple weeks i think hey look we uh it's it's you talk about a cool moment go to fenway with your son yeah and um we were there for his first night because there was a lot of high on the sky. And I'd say he's sufficiently lived up to that hype. So it's excited to be a Red Sox fan right now. So this game is a 6.04.

Okay. It's our new 100th game. It's just ahead of the 2019 Raiders versus Bears in London and just below the 2008 week free preseason game Texas. Oh, that's the travesty. I'm bringing this to our recent. We did that with Dola. Dola. When he was on

the Cowboys. He was on Hard Knicks. Yeah. I like it. Hard Knocks star. That's going to have to be down. Yeah. We need to read. We're going to need to the Raiders Bears London, who did that? Richie Incognito. Okay. They like Josh Jacobs,

uh, no. Yes. Ran for a bunch of yards and they were happy. They ran all over Kalerman. We had a London game. That was a fun night after that time. We had, oh my God.

Remember that? You already had Orrumburger. You didn't tell this story. Explain it. I mean, London game. London game. 2012. We, we whipped their butt.

Wop their butt. So no curfew. Almost got in a fight with the team at a bar. Yeah. And at some point, now look, we were young. So I actually had a roommate,

which I believe was Orrinberger. Yeah. And if I remember this correctly, we were doing customs at the hotel at, like, 8 a.m. And Bill's like, don't miss this because once they're gone, like, we're taking off. And I think Rich had been out and couldn't remember the hotel we were staying at. And he said he was in the cab just circling, like, trying to find the one that looked. And he ran up at like 740 through all his shit in the suitcase and made it on time. But it was like, I'm like trying to call him.

And this is back like. This is the first time we ever not had cure for. all together. Right. That was a fun night. We also had the dinosaur barbecue night where you and TB had the beer chugging contest. Who won that? I think Tom did. No, he was spilled all over his self. All right. We're going to have to go

to the review on that one. We did a game with me. That was awesome. That was our first time seeing the guys in real life. Yeah. Because we were granted, we were fucking like slap dicks at that time in our career. So we never saw the veterans or the cool guys out. We didn't get the invites. Yep. So when we all went out as a team. I was like, man.

Dinosaur barbecue, Rochester, New York. Tom drinking a beer. Were the coaches out then, too? Coaches were there. Yeah. Yeah. Nick Casario was there. Chattie O was there.

Billy O was there. Remember, they got in a fight? Didn't they get in a fight that game? Billy O and Tommy? No, that was the few weeks later in Washington. Was that Washington? No. Is that Juan Underwood?

Yes. Yes. I think you're thinking of when Tom and Josh got in the fight in Buffalo. That was later. Was that later? Yeah. I mean, look, we have years of stories. we can tell. But that dinosaur barbecue was, but I like to, but like for those examples,

when people talk about guys fighting in between the lines in the middle of battle, I talk to all my employees when we, we, we get in arguments and stuff. Like, when we're in between the lines, that's, that's going to happen. We're in fucking war. Doesn't mean I don't love you. Doesn't mean right when the game's over. They don't, like that happens all the time. Guys blow up on each other after the game. Oh, my bad, bro. You know, it's just a high stress environment. Well, that one that you're referencing Billy O and Tom. And I think while you're thinking of Chaddie O is, remember, I think Billy O like took the frozen waterball and slammed down the ground to hit Chad, like right in the ankle bone.

He's like, fuck, Billy, that fucking hurt. And, uh, but like literally like five minutes later, they're like, all right, we might have to go a two minute drive. Like they're sitting there. I mean, it's, there's, these are heated moments. Oh, yeah. And competitive too. Competitive.

And I think, let's just say, thank God, there's not like a true HR department in the NFL. I mean, it just couldn't exist. No, it'd be gone. Yeah. Are you, like, drinking with the coaches at Dinosaur Barbecue? Yes. Like, they're just, it's like this. Oh, yeah.

And for young guys like us, we never saw that. What is going on? Did you actually feel comfortable to go for it? Or were still a little bit like. We just clinched our division. Yeah. We were, like, fuck it. No, everybody, remember Welker, like, was late to the next,

oh, my God. And the slow clap. And we were like, and he came in and he was like, and Bill's just looking at him. I mean, like, what can you really do? It's technically like, the travel day, off day. Off day. Yeah. It was a fun night.

Who's the best coach to drink a beer with? Probably Billio. Yeah. Or Chad O'Shea, Chattio. Chatio. The fucking Irish guys. The Irish guys.

That's right. I'm happy to have Billio back in town. I am too, man. I got my fucking BC. There you go. This is for Billy O right here, man. Billio and Joe V. Who's over here?

Bears. Shout out to Bears. Shout out. I've never seen Bear's smile so much of now when I go over to BC. I know. It's incredible. It's outrageous.

I love seeing Bears now. I can't wait. see those two guys play. And it's not this year. We got to go to that game, but that happens. We got to go to that game. Hopefully they can bill up to over fucking Boston College. That'll get some...

You think you can get Bill on this podcast? You know what? I don't want to talk about it. I mean, he's got to relate to the kids now. I mean, he's got to talk about it. Yeah. You know, Jules, that's the angle. If you want to get good recruits.

I mean, he's watching here. Yeah. He'll go on to, you know, Indianapolis Colts guys, the podcast. Literally tried to burn them. Literally tried to burn him. He'll go on to Steeler guys' podcast. literally never beat us

he'll go on to other people's podcast but he won't come on to the guy who he literally drafted and was probably one of his only good receivers that he drafted. Deon Branch, Deon Branch was fire. Thank God you took all those team friendly deals, brother. That's right. That's why he kept you around. I could have got the Browns to go up 100K

you would have been a part of this game. I would have been in this. And I don't want to pour salt in the wound but I appreciate you having me on. I mean, I know Tom hasn't come on, but you had to go to the backup. Got to go the backup first. I mean, that's what I'm here for.

You know, Tom and Bill, can't get anyone on this goddamn thing. I think, I think you just keep pressing on them. Keep posting those photos. Yeah, I know. Tom will go on other people's bodies and, you know. It's good for the law at this point. It is.

It is. It is. It's in the bar pretty high. They got to top that. That was awesome. Yeah. No, but this was a great fucking game. This was some awesome.

These were some amazing stories to go over, Brian. Did we miss anything from this game? No, I don't think so. We covered it. I was more excited to reminisce with you because, as I, as I said, I'm listening to Teddy Kay on here. I'm listening to Orenberger, Slater, Billy O'Berge, Bears. I mean, the stories, to hear them and to let people in on, like, kind of like the inside.

The fun that we had. Everyone thinks we didn't have fun. No, we had a lot of fun. I thought winning was fun. Winning is fun. You remember that? Trust me. I was on a lot of losing teams too, dude.

Remember that whiteboard? Were you there when I put that on there? Yeah, I think I was. Winning is fun. Winning is fun. it makes your whole life fun. It may suck during the week. I'm not going to lie to you.

Like, those were... You didn't want to be put on the low lights. You didn't want to fuck up. No. But Sunday afternoons, we're always pretty good. Made me a better man. It's 100%. And it made me feel the real world.

That's how the real world is. That's right. If you don't fucking work, you ain't getting shit. If you feel sorry for yourself, people will move on from you. And I'll say this from my perspective, having started here, leaving, coming back. There was never a closer team than any of the teams

that I was with the Patriots because I think we all went through it together. Yeah. We were all, we all knew at any moment you could get called out and it brought everybody closer together. I think that was Bill's superpower was...

And I think that's why he did that. Yeah, I think so too. Because he wanted to be everyone, everyone against him. Right. So it makes you guys all congregate to like, all right. But like, that's the power, man.

That was, this was fun. Everyone go out and check out the QuickSnap podcast now on NBC Sports. What day? We're working our way up. It's going to be on Wednesday nights. I think at 6th, they'll air it, but it'll also be on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, all of those things too. So we're working our way. XM Radio, NFL Radio? I do Sirius XM on Thursday and then do a few in-house Patriots things. I get to hang out with Zoe and Bob Sochi on Tuesday. Love Zoe. You've been killing it. I saw you do, what was it, a preseason game? You did some stuff with Tom. Yeah, don't worry. I'm sure I was waiting for you to knock me.

on our outfit choice because it was the only thing. And this is the same outfit? Dude, I just want to give. I didn't even know. It was very similar. Was it the same outfit? And this is all I want to say is I was in Cooperstown, New York, coaching Garrett's baseball team. And then you flew up to New York to Soho to go with the same outfit at the time.

He played Friday morning. The game ended. We drove from Cooperstown to home, showered. And I called my wife. And I said, put out this outfit for me. I wore it last weekend to this event. it's like these khaki jeans and a navy blue like dress polo and my white sneakers.

And I'm sitting there waiting for him to come out for this ceremony. And he walks out and he's got the same outfit on. And I'm like, this is just, I know I'm never going to hear at the end of this. Especially, there it is. He was long sleeve, thank God, but the jeans were the same.

I think they were the same sneakers. Where is Tom's chest hair? I don't know, but. Is he a chain guy? Is he always been a chain guy? One of the greatest memes I saw after this was you guys watch, Righteous gemstones.

Yes. Little baby Billy, there it is. I mean, Tom just needs to dye as her white for Halloween and he's got the he's got the I like the glasses. Yeah, there are transition lenses, I think. Yeah, it's the new thing I've been seen. When you get close to 50, you got to wear the transitions. Dude, does he actually, no, he does.

Tom Brady does not need glasses. Those were the same glasses he wore coming out and they were full on sunglasses. And then here we are at night under the lights and they transitioned a little bit. They were like the see through like Elvis glasses. Man, shit. When you're cool, it's always sunny, buddy. When you're cool, it's always sunny. That was true.

Behoi, thanks, bro. I appreciate you, man. I love you, bro. We'll be right for this. Love you, too, dude. We'll be right back after this quick break. I'm Dan. He's Ty.

Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast. College football season is here. And you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween. Uh-huh. But fear not. The Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback.

Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. We don't just love college football, tie. We live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I had this, like, overwhelming sensation that I had to call her right then. And I just hit call.

I said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation. And I just want to call on and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season 2 takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission.

I was married to a combat army veteran, and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice. There's a lot of love that flows through this place, and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. I wouldn't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head.

Welcome to Season 2 of The Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Marcus Grant. And I'm Michael Fiorio and together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. Fantasy season is here and the question is, are you ready to dominate your league? Because if you're not locked in with us, the NFL Fantasy Football. Football podcast, you're already playing from behind. Every episode, we're breaking down the biggest fantasy headlines.

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Another just okay season? Or total fantasy domination? Listen to the NFL fantasy football podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about exploring human potential. I was going to schools to try to teach kids these skills, and I get eye-react. from teachers or I get students who would be like, it's easier to punch someone in the face. When you think about emotion regulation, like you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy

which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome as a result of it if it's going to be beneficial to you. Because it's easy to say like, like go you go blank yourself, right? It's easy. It's easy to just drink the extra beer. It's easy to ignore to suppress seeing a colleague who's bothering you and just like walk the other way. Avoidance is easier. ignoring is easier, denial is easier, drinking is easier, yelling, screaming is easy. Complex problem solving, meditating, you know, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Man, Hoy Dog, that was awesome game to go over. I didn't even know that game existed. I forgot.

But I remember Hoy. Great pick. He was balling that year, low key. He really was. He looked great in that. Go back and watch. They got the full game on you too. He looked pretty good. Go back and watch that thing. He was one of those guys you always wish he got a full shot. Never got a full shot.

And that's because he was undrafted. Yeah. You got to light it up right away for you to get a full shot. Purdy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Purdy,

he did, that's exactly what he did. I could just tell. August last drafted, but from our 90 minutes here together with Hoy, great locker room guy. Great locker room guy. Great locker room guy.

I could just tell. Yeah. You know, Hoy, when I said the backup QB he has a lot of different hats. He, He bore a lot of different hats for a lot of different guys.

And not because he's bald. Not because he's bald. But, you know, I love Hoy to Death. We had so much time together, like he was saying. I was those earlier just studying. Well, wow. It's time for the chill zone

brought to you by Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door. Visit Coorslight.com slash GwN and celebrate responsibly. possibly. Before we get into this, I love that Kyle Shanna had mentioned her in that. Like my brain like, that was great. That was great. That was a great. That was a great mention. Glad that you like caught me because I like, you know that mean

where the guy's like, yeah, that just clicked. Forrest Gump of 28 to 3. With all like the. Yeah. Stuff going. I say one more thing about before we go. Um, I love when a guest comes on who's like familiar with the show. Yeah. And like A picks a great game. Gets the integrity score. Yeah. Honestly, it was too low. Should have been higher. I know. But he didn't want to go too far. He didn't want to pump his tires.

He knew what's up. He knew the vibe. He knew the vibe. All right, we're going to pull back the curtain on interacting with opponents in the National Football League. When you've talked in some past episodes, Jules, about battling with different cornerbacks and safeties, linebackers, any guys on other teams, we've gotten comments of kind of what that's like before, after games, during games, not just the trash talk,

but, like, what is it like interacting with opponents? that you don't know guys you do know maybe you went to college with maybe you train together at exos or somewhere former teammates on the current team you're on uh how does that go down before after games are you talking to each other during the week the classic jersey swaps that we all see just kind of how does that go down in the NFL what's the protocol what is the what is the way that you did it and just kind of that whole world yeah you know our coach used to uh always say I don't be having a team meeting before the game with other guys

We're going to be playing these guys None of this Like say hi and then move on And I took that I listened to my coach I listened to him That came down from Bill That wasn't just kind of like the culture thing But there would be guys that would you know

See other team Other guys that they went to school with Or other old teams that they played with And they would do that But I was never like that I played with the patch the whole time I was very into myself I mean it's

McAfee's talked about it where he tries to talk to all the punt returners he tried to talk I didn't want to talk to him I was playing mind games I was visualizing that I was like

going to run a punt down your fucking throat or I was visualizing and thinking up horrific things about other players that I had to go compete against

because that's what we're about to do so shit talking yeah there was shit talking and that was done I used to do business as business being done if a guy was going to

come in and start talking and I didn't know him, then I was going to talk to him all game and I was going to abuse him. If he was a little weak and I knew it got under like weak mentally, you could just sniff that from a younger player or, you know, a guy that is getting, you know, I don't know. I felt like I would get into guys. If it was a guy that was their vocal guy, who was an enforcer type guy that used to hit, I would get up and I would let him know that it didn't hurt you know that was one of my things that I always like tried to do if I got bamboozled I would get up and scream at him and say or say something like that's all you got bro because I felt like that was more deflating you know and and at the time you know I'm fucking banged up like oh shit but like

I would always try to make a point to let a know it didn't hurt me got um did anyone ever get under your skin uh uh what is his name me and what's his name got in a fight the safety from the dolphins. Not making, no. We used to, Bobby Kane. Bobby, I think we talked about this on an episode.

Bobby, yeah. What is his name? 2016. Bobby McCain? Bobby McCain. Me and Bobby, we just,

and that was because we played each other so much. You can build up the history. Build up. He was a competitive player. He was a scrappy player. I think I got a penalty for, We were talking shit, and I head butted them and got a 15-yarder. You know, it all depends on the guys for both situations, like, with your interaction before or after.

DB is not one of those positions that usually talks much trash, which is... Yeah. Now, for someone like you're, like, close with, like, let's say, like, you were friends with Dolah before he came on the team and you guys played against each other in London against the Rams. Like, are you texting it all beforehand, or is it usually like... No, I wouldn't. I was, I was like... You're just in. You're zoned in.

Yeah, I didn't like that either. Is there a world where, like, a guy, you say Dola's in town, would you guys go out to eat the night before or hang out the night before? Like, is that ever a world or is that just fantasy land? No, that happens, I think, with older veteran-type players that maybe a guy they played with, you know, that kind of stuff. I'm sure a lot of guys do that. I didn't do that.

I feel you. I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, no. But maybe I don't know. like after the game, different. So what's after the game? That's when, you know, hey, man, it was good. No hard feelings.

Oh, see, you know, in the off season, potentially. In Exos, there would be a couple guys I used to train with. But, you know, when we were going against each other, like, it was like it almost in heighted me wanting to beat the shit out of them because I knew them. And so I could talk shit to them afterwards. I feel like in this realm and this conversation we're having, We throw around the term Kiki a lot.

A lot of Kiki and... Can you explain that to the folks? Slate dog. Slate dog. Yeah. Kikian is when you're over there and you're talking with the boys. Oh, Kiki.

Ha, ha. He. You know, Slate used to throw that around a lot. You'd be like, yeah, don't be Kikiing with them over there. In hockey, they call it tummy sticks. Tummy sticks.

You meet at the red line. Yeah. And you've got like you're sticking their tummies. Yeah. No tummy stick. No buddy, buddy. No kiki. No tummy sticks.

But I think it's changed. You know, like, when I first... I just remember playing against the Jets and Bart Scott literally went up to like two inches from Billy O's face and like said you're something crazy. Player on coach. Player on coach. Like that's how it really like it's kind of gone in a different way.

And I think that's because we're all a lot more connected with social media. And we've been seen. And we could shoot a DM. Like it's not, you know, this generation's fault. It's just literally like you, we know guys since that these kids know each other and heard of each other's name. and been competing against each other since they were like 13 at a seven on the seven QB camp or a receiver of this recruiting visits the AAU basketball these you know what I mean

there's just so much crossover with guys now where there wasn't that when we were kids no that's true you know like you just made the game less competitive who that kind of relationship the players have no I think people are going to always compete because there's there's that camaraderie of wanting to beat your brother up you know what I mean you you want to you know if anyone's do it. It's going to be a bro. You know what I mean? Your boy. I'm with you. And then that brings us to sort of the peace de resistance, if you will, of this world of interacting with players, the jersey swap. Yeah. We weren't allowed to do it. Our coach wouldn't let us. Really? We couldn't give, bless you. Bless you, Guy. We weren't allowed to give our game jersey. We could send a

jersey. Okay. But we weren't allowed to give the game jersey because it was a lot of logistics for the equipment staff that has this custom. I think you have like two or three of them for the year where they're a custom fit to your body and they didn't, you know, it's like, I don't know. We weren't supposed to. So like if anyone want to do jersey swap, we would be like, you know, all right, we'll send you one. You know, our coach doesn't want us to give our ones off our back, which they weren't free.

Right. We had to pay for them as well. They're like 500 bucks. Oh, wow. Yeah, or whatever they were. Nothing was free in the National Football League. Now, let's say you've mentioned before in an episode talking about Antonio Gates, but were there moments when you're younger and like you just played against

or competed against someone you looked up to? Like, what does that look like to go up to talk to? I remember seeing, nah, but I remember like seeing Peyton Manning for the first time, you know, after we competed against him in 09 and we lost to, you know, or,

I mean, you were early in your career, when you saw like the veteran type players that were stars, he'd be like, oh man. Like, or when I saw, when I saw Antonio Gates,

We passed through each other in the hallway And that was like, it was like, what's up? I think it was after the game. Had his shades on looking at night looking sweet With a black sweater, big ass chain. Hell yeah. So, you know, I don't know. How about the shoe being on the other foot?

Did some of the young bucks come up to you? Yeah. At the end, at the end, a lot of guys, that's when you know you get old is when, you know, a guy tackles you and goes, man, I used to watch you when I was a kid. you know or you know stuff like that the older you get then you hear that a little more I feel that but it's like that always kind of made me happy

it means he was watching I was just gonna say I love that I got I got two more one is still in the jersey swap hypothetically there is a player that you've competed against where you could swap a jersey is there someone that comes to mind that you'd want to have their jersey or a game or a moment or them have yours off the rip of my head Steve Smith Smitty.

Yeah, I just, I loved how Steve Smith played. I loved, I loved that. And he was a baller, you know. I loved watching him play. He was like that perfect balance of like brash, but also you knew that he was doing the work. Oh, yeah. He was doing the mental work, physically.

He was doing all the work. But he had that, like, diva kind of puts, but he had the both thing. I'll admit, I was also a little scared of him when he came in the nut house. He keeps you on your nerves. I was on my peas and cues. Keeps on you.

On your toes. We see as fans, you know, the interactions that are happening on the field. Are there any more conversations, interactions happening, you know, in the stadium after the game? Sometimes you'll see, you know, look, when you're packed up, you're on the road, and you go in, you shower, you change, you do media. Well, the other team's doing that too. And a lot of times you guys will share the same tunnel. They'll be going to their cars. We'll be going to the buses.

So you'll see a guy here and there. a lot of the times you see coaches that are in the box that they don't get to come down you see a DC or a special team coordinator and you know, hey, how are you doing all that? You know what I mean?

Yeah. And I bet the coaching relationships are even more incestuous because they're around the football for longer than time, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But there is some interaction.

I mean, there's that story. I remember Tom after that AFC championship. I was walking to go do some media stuff. And I saw him go over and near the, because the media was near their locker room, I think, or something. And I saw, you know, Tommy went over and talked to Patrick Holmes after that game. That's cool. I think that's been documented, though.

The people have talked about that. That's so cool. You know, so I'm sure Tom did it a lot, probably. And it's also different with that quarterback relationship. Get off the field. Do it a little bit more. I don't, yeah, I don't know. But I remember seeing that.

And you see guys, a lot of guys would do that, like, behind the scenes, the key keys. stuff. And I thought even in retirement, the relationship that you and A.J. Brown had was pretty cool, too. Oh, yeah. I mean, we had a connection because I remember Rable or Brian Bell at Tennessee had me talk to him early on. I found out Rable tried to trade for me after the 18th season. Really? Whoa.

What did you find out? That Bill said no. Wow. To the podcast, coming on the podcast? Uh-huh. He said no to coming on the podcast. Oh, yeah. Oh, to trading.

I'm sorry. Or not Bill. I mean, beep. Man, my man on Broadway down in Nashville. I can see that. I know. I would have fell apart, though.

Get you a truck. Some boots. It's not too late to play for Vrabel. I'm just saying. It's a little too late, but. Awesome. That's a great nugget.

Great questions from comments. Keep them up. Any more follow-ups. Keep them, drop them in there. We'll, old coaches from, I would always say hi to those guys. Like coaches, like, like, Balby Babbage, the D.C. for the Bears.

I had them at Kent. I always liked to see the guys that were, I remember grinding. And they were like, you know, or Dean Peas when he was with Ravens. You know, he was a head coach of Kent. I would always see, like, my Kent guys. I mean, there just wasn't many of them. So I couldn't be Kiki in like the Alabama guys or the. other guys.

So you should probably ask those guys. Man, I mean, awesome. That's so cool. Good segment. Good segment. More questions in the comments. Keep him coming, baby. And that was the chill zone.

Thanks to our favorite beer, Coorslight. Get Coorslight delivered straight to your door. Visit Coorslight.com slash GwN and celebrate responsibly. What a game. Thanks again to Brian. That's been another episode of Games with Names presented by Duncan. Thanks again. Duncan House. Hell of a week at that. Hell of a week. A lot of work. A lot of donuts. A lot of coffee. A lot of fun. A lot of love. Thanks again to Duncan.

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