Garza Podcast - 11: Ross Robinson | Producer: KORN, SLIPKNOT, AT THE DRIVE-IN

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

Ross Robinson is a record producer and one of my favorite humans on the planet. We talk about the early days of recording Korn, working with Paul Gray, life, and much more. SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB  

And today we have one of my dream guests. He's a producer, an engineer, and the records he made created a genre that essentially even created subgenres that are still coming out today. He's one of my favorite humans on the planet, also one of my heroes, and it's a trip that has evolved to now I could call him my friend. I can't wait for you to listen to this, watch this. So without further ado, please welcome Ross Rock. It never stops, huh? It never stops. Especially like in your case, well, welcome back home.

Oh, yeah. You know, like the first time you were here, you met the whole band, and it was like well over five years ago. Was it? Oh, my God. Dude. Again, like, I don't, we don't even remember the year that record happened. 2016, I want to say. Yeah.

So, yeah, we were talking about, I had my back surgery. It was that year. Yeah, you had just had your back surgery. Fuck. So everything I did, I have kind of no memory of that whole year. Really? Yeah. It was that, so I broke my back during Slipknot, and then I pained.

And don't remember making Iowa. Oh, my God. Because the pain was so ruthless. I remember snippets, but not like, you know, the whole. And then having that surgery, like, decade and a half later. Like 15 years later. Dude, it was so gnarly. I felt, I thought I was feeling normal.

but when I think about what happened, it didn't even happen. So did it happen? Here you go, we're in. I don't think so. Wow. Yeah, yeah. It happened in that, you know, we have a forever friendship, you know. Yeah.

You know, personal, which is rather than a friendship through records, you know yeah yeah it's you know it's crazy for not necessarily knowing you personally for that long but i feel like i've known you for a long time and actually knowing you personally now it has been like a trip and just that short amount of time which i guess we could comfortably say five years is uh you just had your back surgery and seeing you kind of change too like because you because you dealt with that pain for like a long period of time oh yeah it was ruthless

ruthless yeah and like you were part of you were still dealing with not being a pain if that makes sense right yeah I mean it was it was still lingering and rolling and actually

I didn't sleep well last night but that's fine but you know normally like it was sleepless nights with nerve pain and stuff like that and I figured out how to hone it down and get that happening which is you know strict diet no Dale taco man yeah so I'm I'm rolling like mostly like 99% raw you know so yeah and it and it and the inflammation is gone and the clarity is so much better you know yeah yeah it's it's like oh man I could have gone raw so many years ago I know yeah but you know just a little you know essence of you

know you've seen my diet and everything it's pretty yeah solid and tight and um except for a few cookies here in there yeah like you know vegan cookies You know, some burritos, you know, vegan or chips. Yeah. You know, and those little things, you know, like made a knife. Stab my body. It's weird. So, you know, with so many motocross injuries, we're not even talking about music right now.

No, let's go, dude. Let's go. Straight. Motorcross. Raw, let's go. I know, right. Who are salads. Come on, I'm in.

I know. It is all related. It's all related, you know. I find, like, if I'm in a physical or an emotional distress that I do push an artist that I'm working with even further to give me that opiate release, like something happens when the amazing performance kicks. Yeah. It's like, pooh. It's just painless and free.

And it's been a trip to discover, you know, like a great performance that heals actually permeates outside through the actual recording as well. You know, so like this girl dumped me, you know, during at the drive-in and oh boy those guys had to pay oh fuck i needed relief like oh my god give me more ah you know yeah um like how can this be happening to me you know but you know using those um internal this is is the is the um resolve not the thing outside of you, but, you know, when you do this and reflect the passion outside of you,

then people react back with that high bar level of passion, you know, so. Yeah. In essence, anything bad that's ever happened or negative has always been the positive, more so than everything. going well. Yeah. You know, we're here to expand and evolve and become. We're not here to have like a happy life experience and enroll. You know, what point is that?

You know, where's the juice? Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah. You know, and also to the brutality that happens when, oh my God, when you're vulnerable and revealing with all of the imperfections and the beauty of you is exposed and people don't like it. Yeah. From suicide? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. like this doesn't sound familiar oh my god yeah you taught us a whole new level of being vulnerable you know that we were starving for which is why us like many other bands to stay

actually seek you out you know where it's like you know we're very aware of that feeling you're we're starving for something else and new Yeah, deep authenticity. Absolutely. Yeah, it gets really caught up when we're... Yeah, go ahead, I love what you're saying.

Oh, no. And from the time that I really... It's like, wow, I'm in the same room as Ross, and we're actually talking and we're creating music. And as that short time has gone on, one of your biggest strengths you are you are a mirror where it feels like wherever a certain person is in their life like you kind of just shoot that back at them for better or for worse oh yeah you know and so especially then we were like late 20s which is a very you know you can remember your late 20s it's a very confusing age where you're actually becoming a I guess adult you know yeah I'm very caterpillar becomes the butterfly absolutely and we were all becoming butterflies as cheesy as that sounds in and your home at the same time and you're well aware how you know

how much chaos it can be to have five dudes with their own lives and just man we had no idea what what we had come and you were just again like your strength is a mirrors or really showed us ourselves you know whether we wanted to see it or not You know when you see it something you can't unsee it when you feel something you can't unfeel it You know to this day I was just thinking about this uh last night where the things that you done for us Definitely me personally from that short time period especially those two months of living with you And the things that you said to me and and the band are still it's still doing its work wow and still clicking you know I got that from you and I'm very

lucky I also had a couple conversations with James and things that you guys say will be said and you hear it and you listen to it like oh okay I'll do that but as the years go on they that's when they take their true meaning right right right you know and things that you've done even as as far as like a small encouragement has done wonders for for me personally That like, you know, we're all, you know, we're human and there's times we're very insecure, you know, and I enjoy of all of those moments. But then, you know, I, but I had that one golden nugget dude that I could take from. I remember that one time, you know, Ross said that to you. And it's fucking. Right on.

Everything's great. It is. It's still doing its work, you know. Yeah. And it was very important, especially for that time for us to get any kind of like motivation. And, you know, you did that for us. You know? Yeah.

It's a heavy one because I don't think I've seen, like, Eddie was so just to the core vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. And that alone is, you know, to me, our experience together is the platinum that, vulnerability and that um letting go and you know no matter what like the courage was yeah way way over the top so good yeah yeah just so courageous yeah definitely I'm very proud of Eddie you know and you really it took you uh you know getting that out of them you know it's unfortunate people can't you can't bring people in the room to see what was going on but

It was fucking heavy, dude. I think the one got the most... Go ahead. Was Eddie, like, then, he's going to the core. Once he sees you going saying things that no one else will say, it gets us all going and make him like, oh shit. That makes us go, oh, shit, we need to like... Yeah.

Like, this isn't our record anymore, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to let what needs to happen happen. And that's it. And whether the consequences are, it does not match. I remember sitting on the front lawn with you guys and you're just going, man, we wrote songs that people aren't, we don't know what they're going to think. I'm like, cool.

Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. Oh, my, no, you don't understand. You don't understand. Like, I'm like, all right. Yeah. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's fucking do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah the becoming becoming is definitely an internal experience and an internal job and it's not anything about what happens on the outside of us ever it doesn't it's it's such an illusion and a pretend world that we live in it's all built on what people think from what they

you know identified with in the past so basically like if if you change my identity of what I know I am through your art

then fuck you you know my identity is getting crushed yeah yeah so in in essence you know music is is a

um music is about exploration and growth and it and it and it does everything for me blows my freaking head off every day every day yeah yeah we're so lucky to get to do this blessed dude so lucky yeah yeah you know it's it's it's it's it's truly a mind-blowing that you know we're we're both still here doing what what we do doing living off of what we love Yeah, is the most fortunate, possible experience, you know, for a bevis. I know. That's where, that's, down to our core, that's what, that's what we're at.

And you showed us that. It's like, well, we're not as cool as we thought we were, you know. Nobody is. No, that's very true. It's all a mask. It's very true. Yeah. The most uncool thing is,

the coolest thing yeah dude even something that's simple as today you know i want i'm i'm not i'm not gonna wear a corn shirt but then i'm not i'm not being myself so i took out i took out the mask i took out the corn shirt i'm i'm me let it rip just like the first day we met oh yeah i wear the same shirt yeah it's all brand new still yeah love it's uh you know music that that that you help create like i truly hold whole dear to my heart and I literally wear it close to my heart. You know, it's just, I can't hope it, dude. It's just, it's there.

I mean, it's on, it's literally on my chest, you know. And do you ever think back when like, when you first, when you first started working in, like, a studio, did you ever foresee what the fuck was about to happen a year from there in 10 years? No. Or ever. It never It never really Hit me

I mean There was There was a moment where it was just Like insanity overwhelming Like if I would go to a show You know It was bizarre

You know But in the real world Like You know People don't know Who the producer is You know Or

And And And I think when you're in a cave digging in, just extracting soul and grit and beauty and ugliness and that excellent invisible, the ghost. The ghost. Yeah. Forever chasing the ghost. Yeah.

Capturing the ghost and then it's reheld. It's not of a Of a What is this going to do to the world? Sort of feeling you don't realize or care. It's not your concern You know we experienced it together where You know we're just pulsing and slamming Pulsing and slamming for us

Simply, that's it You know and there's no outside world involved especially when you're really, really there, you know, and awake. And you were definitely there in a wake. Yeah, yeah, because the music was... But, yeah, like, I wish I remembered that year a little better. Same. Same.

I have these little nuggets from you. The feeling tone stays. It does. You're right. It never goes away. That's true. And yeah, today is starting all over again, you know, as it was each day when we'd wake up. You know, it's like you start now.

And then the past is, it's non-existent. There's nothing there. You just show up and hear a craving and a voice saying, do this or do that and follow that. without going, what did I do? Hmm. You know, or, boy, I better, like, make people, you know, come and, you know, and love what I do. You know, it's that, that is so not, that contemplation is just, it's a nightmare, you know, For people that live that way, you know, it's like, oh, this is going to be a hit.

You know, I don't understand it. You know, it doesn't work in me somehow. Does that make any sense? It does. Yeah. And because that's how you truly view it and that's how you live, like the opposite happens. You actually bring it in, right? Yeah, I think the real part of what we are,

is humming. It's a voice behind the voice, behind the voice, that when you do something just raw and authentic and revealing it, you know, that it in you goes, you know, finally,

and there's a release and a relief like, oh, reality, truth, you know that thing that we really are comes alive through the music you know it's like oh they understand

you know yeah you know and you know from the beginning you guys with Mitch it was just like that without that's the amazing thing

you know when you're young and you're not there's nothing to lose. There's only everything to give, you know, just automatically. And you're slamming. Like, the world just goes, oh, thank you. Yeah. Because people don't live like that. Yeah.

Just don't. You're right. Yeah. Just going full tilt with nothing to lose. Yeah. Literally with no concern with even, like, your physical life. Yeah. And unfortunately that has, you know, cost of life of our friends, you know, because going,

you just go full tilt, you just go. Yeah, well, it's confusing when you're that powerful and you don't know what it is. It's really confusing. And your life becomes about maybe, you know, that expression is so big, then when you're not doing it, there's something so, like, off. You know, it's scary. It's so brutal. And people don't have, like, a public school should teach you how to deal with any kind of success.

Yeah. You know, any kind of, like, you know, applause, you know, or love, you know, basically it's, when you give a love at that level through your expression, it, and your survival skills were built off of, um, protection, you know,

public schools are brutal. You know, driving on the freeways, brutal, everybody's defensive and gnarly and aggressive. And, um, you know, you know,

so our skills, level to survive is not built on what happens when that happens with suicide in the beginning, you know, where it's just like, or the corn guys. Dude, it was like that before we made the record. And I used to like literally pray that those guys, like one of them wouldn't die, you know. I was so terrified for their lives. I don't know why. It was freaking me out. Really?

Yeah. Was it just a feeling or maybe kind of like? It was so, like for me it was I would consider myself another band member and it's all I did for like two and a half years before the record. And just that one band and every practice, every, you know, every show, you know, everything. And but there was this thing where I have when it was starting to get confusing and people were like, like on them wanting and needing and, you know, friends and, you know, whoever was around him. And I went, whacked way off. Just like and just Let it go

Totally And But during that time I was just like Oh my God Please keep him safe Totally And at that point

Like the first pecker Was probably already out And wasn't even out yet And there was already some Some level of confusion And outsiders coming in It was out of control dude Like every

Every street sign in Huntington Had a corn sticker on it Oh my God It was out of control. It was more off the hook than the first two years after the record. Like their home Huntington area, and it was every show, the insanity of that environment. You know, I was like super, super straight edge and living on wheatgrass and sprouts. Yeah.

I was that guy. Yeah. And somehow everything, everything worked together. Yeah. And, um, but, um, we all, yeah, anyway, that, that was that. Yeah, did you, so you probably, did you feel like a, it was just like, like, like, like a buzz and like, you just felt something? Like, what is, well, what's going on or something's happening?

It was, it didn't, it didn't match. anything in the world. It was to Goth and femme you know Jonathan's flamboyancy and then the music was all dark and heavy it was it was not poppy you know it was

Nirvana was out chili peppers was out like they were really blowing up at the time and you know when I remember when the album came out the only thing they can compare John's voice to was Eddie Vedder

Oh yeah Like what Fucking weird That's but see that's identity You know people need to attach Absolutely something But that That feeling was so intense

Coming off their music And their performances was Like it was so heavy in an internal way that you couldn't deny it. It was there. It was there. Yeah. Special and forever.

Like, it'll never go away. Yeah. Wow. What? I'm trying not to freak out. I mean, what was it? Like, you were in those rooms. Like, you were in the room when they were jamming,

even before the first record. What was that like? We literally... Fun. If you're outside that room, you have no idea. What was that like? What was going on? Just fun.

It's hanging out. Yeah, fun. Yeah, good old times. Laughing. Spitting sunflower seeds all over the place. You know, they had their own language. Yeah. You know, we all talk with, you know, inside jokes, you know,

Yeah. And it was just this unique experience that I don't think anybody, even them can't re-relive. You know, it was so special. It was really special because it was so much fun. Yeah. And then the lyrics, you know, everybody just believed in the lyrics so much. Like all the methods that I use, you know, today were. Just being just kind of naturally formed in how those guys were and how what they would react to when we were together.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So like John would say something and then you'll ignite their room. You guys would be like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. The lyrics were all dark and wild.

revealing you know they were they were truly vulnerable in him when everybody else in the world were singing about you know some fantasy of something you know yeah hiding behind it you know like this is what the title is but you're not going to know what it really means and you know no bands knew what most lyrics were about you know and wow and it Everybody knew what every single sentence and syllable meant. And it came out through the players. Yeah. As a pulsing, one, they were one, you know.

I can't believe I got to be there for it and be part of it. Like it's, yeah, it changed my life and a lot of people's lives in such a good way. great way yeah and it's still going can't believe it they work they work hard it's no joke everything that you have everything that all those guys have has been 100% absolutely earned through everything that oh god yeah yeah there's no um shortcut no with that absolutely not and And you hear that and you see that. Yeah. Especially when, you know, I've been blessed and lucky now to, like, you know, meet you and those guys.

And, like, there's no, it's no secret why you guys are who you are and where you're at. Just full, full on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. So you were already, like, so about two and a half years before the first record, you guys were already hanging out. And. I recorded Fear Factory. Yeah.

in Blackyallas's studio. I was living on the floor in his recording studio. Wow. But before that, I was living on a practice room floor of my band. Yeah. And I had a gym membership that was literally $30 a year. Because I joined the, it was called a holiday spa, which turned into ballets in Hollywood when they were building it.

Whoa. And they needed, you know. people to sign up and there was this crazy membership thing so i was able to live in these weird places go to the gym and work out and shower and do all that stuff and and then music constant music yeah and um so i had a friend that um i recorded and his parents uh grew weed and he grew up as a kid cultivating in Humboldt. And he was this metal guitar player dude and had this band.

And I did a little couple songs in Blackie Studio. Yeah. And my band broke up. And then Dave McLean joined Sacred Reich. That's right. Yeah. And right before that, Dave and I were playing with these two singers one was from my old band detente and um this other guy was this

industrial dude and um the the music was it was going to be something ridiculous it had like a feeling of like sort of sort of like the earliest nine inch nils ish but in ministry but it was like, Jane's addiction. Nothing shocking a little bit. Yeah. And pornography, cure. Yeah. With two insane singers, like, to the core,

like that core, core, core thing that I'm into. Yeah. was I learned from Don Crosby, the singer from Dayton. She showed me sisters of mercy and like a bunch of like really cool, goffy things. And I was just a straight metal kid before that. And she would go, so-and-so has cancer and listen to this song. And it's like, oh my God, he's dying. And I was like, yeah.

You would see that. Oh, God. It was like, yeah. Oh, and just swim in it, like, oh, my God. Yeah. And then, so then we had this, like, crazy industrial dude that was just like, ah, with an Echoplex delay like Mike Patton started doing later on. And then Dawn was just these dark, witchy,

lyrics just about rape and like gnarly shit that happened to her and I'm just like oh my God oh and I we had one practice cassette and it disappeared I have it I don't know where

I lost it or anything but it was like it had a little bit of of what you hear in corn really yeah the disin it like the B the bees sounding

yeah yeah it was in that whoa yeah with um with the beats

and you know I mean those guys are creative gods you know and I was so lucky to be there

but I was able to bring this this thing to it and when John showed up to the first rehearsal

to audition he was wearing like this Robert Smith makeup and I was like oh Wow.

Yeah, he was wearing these industrial monkey boots and like, so sweet. Just, man. God. And we didn't even hear him sing that day. He was just freaking out so hard during a song and wigging out and ended up on the floor just crying in rehearsal.

Like, first of all I'm just like chills all over my body. We could not even tell if he can sing or not. It was so fucking awesome. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, all of that Coleman cultivating, culminating, or whatever the word is, just coming together in these impossible different, you know, John didn't like what those guys did. You know, that wasn't like his world, you know, he was like Duran Duran and, you know, really cool, new wavey stuff.

and I was like, oh, my God. And those guys were into faith no more. And, like, you know, I was just like, oh, my God, this is so cool. It's so cool. And David's beat and groove was just, oh, my gosh, dude. Everything was just so perfect. Yeah. Yeah, all meant to be all of our worlds colliding, you know, creating.

I know. Yeah. And supporting that, like, yeah. like forbidden zone, you know, to go into. Yeah. Yeah. It's even more forbidden now. It seems like, you know?

I know. It's, wow. Like, I always, that's always tripped me out, like, what, like, what are the chances of, like, six guys being in the same room together? Yeah. Yeah. What are the odds of that and how does that happen? You know what I, I, I, you know what I, you know. love about talking about this is, you know, it's coming up because I keep looking at the

shirt and seeing it. I remember James going, like, I want the album cover to be like, you know, maybe a little girl like looking up it. She can't see him and she's going like that trying to see who it is. And, yeah, we're like, oh, my God. And there it is. Forever. And then you have the shadow.

Yeah. It's like, there's just something like, there's something just off-putting about it. Yeah. You know? Well, it's, you know, it came from him for a reason. Yeah. And whatever that is, you know, no, it's real, you know. Totally.

Bakersfield, you know, it's burly. Yeah. You got Barstow and Baker's filled in the same room. I mean, who? Desert. Yeah, pure deserts. Just two deserts fucking colliding. Yeah.

This everything that you guys did, literally 100% everything to the absolute maximum was infused with being authentic and pure. Yeah. And like, therefore, like the music, like this kind of comes out like which, you know, maybe every, not every, but probably most producers, engineers, bands kind of secretly want. You want something that kind of stops time and transcends it. And that's it, yeah. And that's what you guys did. Well, it's a timeless subject, you know. Like it's a schematic for the perfect situation, you know, like, it doesn't have to be, like, dramatic and treacherous.

You know, it could be any subject. But everybody in a band, it helps. so much if everybody believes in what they're doing for the expression. If the lyric is known and it's believed in and you truly are like really living it and trust that it's a the message that you're all putting together,

pulsing together like the instruments are just as communicative as a lyric. You know? Yeah. And so when you're all on that same page, you know, the count off of the sticks, like you remember, it's like, I want to feel the chill off the count. If I don't feel the chill, you're not even playing it, and it's all of you. So it's like, that's it.

The song's complete, just counting off the song, you know, because. Song's done. Yeah, the expression is, you. just permeating, you know, the air of the room, you know, the breath and the, you know, because this is all temporary. That thing that comes through us is forever if it's authentic. If we're hiding behind some sort of fake reality and wanting something outside of that expression, then it comes and it goes and it doesn't really last.

and you know I've that's you know I've said this so many times and to the band is when I got that

sepulatura gig in the beginning for the Roots record I think I got it because you know I said I want to build a pyramid

I want to build something that will last forever you know and never go away you know pyramids they built it for God. Yeah.

You know, like, whatever their God was, it's there. And it's just as powerful. Like, it brings people to their knees daily for the rest of humanity. Yeah. You know, till the world disintegrates. Yeah. They're going to be there. Yeah.

So why not make a record that does the same thing or try? oh man yeah yeah there's a magic of just trying that intention and you know the that all these like psychotic talks about lyrics and stuff that we do before tracking is like keeping the attention on the intention that's the theme always yeah attention so you're so you're a deeply slamming for a purpose, you know. And you can play, you know, tight and correct and whatever it is, you know. It's not necessarily my favorite, but you can do either, you know, with that attention. Yeah.

On what you're doing, yeah. Wow. At what point where did that, what did that really, come in as far as you and and the guys were like because i mean obviously you guys were already hanging around like you know two and a half years or two three three years and like at what point did you really go full tilt and you sort of going in um i think the i think the the moment um i opened to l a weekly and after the wasp record before the wasp record before before I met him, I opened it and it said,

this club coconut teaser, Creep formerly LAPD, and I was like, oh, my band played with LAPD, and I really liked that guitar player. He was so cool, he was such a good dude, you know. We hung out for like, you know, 10 minutes sitting on the stage, like just, yeah, just this guy. And he always was in me.

for some reason. Yeah. And it was James, and I went to the show. And my friend had just been held up by some Crips that sold weed that I recorded. I'm like, let's,

he goes, do you know any bands? Maybe we can try to start a record company or something. I'm like, I'll find one. And first, one we did was Fear Factory and that you know yeah that didn't work out and um even though we recorded they took it and used it as a demo and cut us out and um so I I learned that lesson

and then I go into that coconut teaser gig it was like opening magazine the night that that record was done the Black Eagle record wasp and going to that show with nothing to do in my life it was just empty space seeing them play in like in the first song

like I felt this killer beat and the riff and there's that guitar player and you know Reggie's so incredibly great on bass and it was the three of those guys with this singer Brian wasn't in the band He was probably there that night

Just hanging out Yeah Hell yeah He was always with us Hanging out Before he was in the band But Oh man

I Fieldy broke a string And it took him like 20 minutes to change it And there was nobody in the club Except me and their girlfriends And the singer was like an Allison Chains' wannabe dude. Yeah.

Came to the, oh, he was from Riverside. And I met all these people from Riverside from him. Oh, wow. You know, that is a whole other universe of great friends, you know? Wow. So, yeah, like, it's so cool to be in your hood and, like, I have some cool friends here. Yeah. Yeah.

And so. back home. Yeah, totally. It's crazy, man. Oh, my God. So, God, this story, man. So the singer was talking shit on the band,

like, oh, this fucker, to his girlfriend and maybe had a friend or two from Riverside. So they were just barely together, you know. And he was a decent singer. But then they started playing again, and

no crowd and I was just like oh my god the beat it's just something so cool so I went up to David afterwards and said hey dude here's my number call me up I have somebody that would totally want to pay for us to go in and record you know a demo and I said I'll get you signed I'll get you signed 100%

and then there was like a whole bunch of other weird things happened and you know I went out with this girl whose best friend worked at A&M records and then we got a demo deal to record and some more songs with that singer and those tracks are from our the ones we gave Jonathan to learn when that singer was kicked out of the band. And, yeah, so there's all these little impossible steps, but I would have a, I would have, like, every A&R guy coming to see him play, every time they play, and, like, book shows and Hollywood, and just have a list of people and check off who showed up.

Whoa. Yeah, it was like, like, I got to get you signed. and my whole life became creep. And then John came in. It was corn. And I later found out, like, corn with a K was on He-Ha, which is a Buck Owens' owned show who's from Bakersfield. He's like the big country artist, Buck Owens.

Yeah. And there was like a skit. on he-haw, K-O-R-N radio. And there's like a microphone with corn written on it. So I found out

like decades later, I like, oh my God, of course. The fuck. Yeah. Like these deep, some conscious things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Whoa. All these weird

organic. And also too, nothing was like ripping off of any other band of a heavy genre. You know, it was all organic and creating its own unique thing, you know, as far as... Yeah. You know, there's influences, but they weren't what they sounded like at all. Yeah. You know? So...

I know, especially today out. That's so rare. You know, bands taking us not. their genre and making it their own. It feels like all of this subject matter could help, you know, bands, you know, go into, you know, your unique situation. And there doesn't seem to be a fraction of what there were as far as bands, you know, the number of bands, you know, people are just so, you know, depending on themselves.

to do their music and I think something's lost in that in that you know it'll be however they do it but then you lose that impossible thing that happens with a group you know something something like they say in a in Indian prayers and stuff where more than one people praying something else happens like it it's the same thing you know it's it's human with this invisible life force coming through us and and when when we collide you know babies are being made yeah you know and you have like five people colliding and you know there's a there's an influence and a attention it's hard it's difficult and and you you create you know it's difficult and um and when it works it's powerful it's life altering life altering yeah yeah you you brought up a few words i really want to unpack

there so yeah being in the room with you know two to five six people men guys is very difficult it is what what was that like for you um was there like how was what was attention like what was difficult was it like uh when you guys were throwing around wrist writing songs like the competitive factor all that all that stuff you know this is this stuff i don't even know oh you know it was really smooth and in simple and pretty easy when we were all together And there was, I had a rule. And anybody that raises their hand, everybody has to stop making noise and let that person speak. So it allowed everybody to have a voice.

Wow. And being that I was in the room without an instrument, it was like ideas were being heard and not ignored. And also, like, there's this thing where if there's, somebody's messing up in a change or a part or something or it's like rough instead of plowing through it every time the guy that notices it stops and everybody stops and we work on that part you know it's just order in simple simple order and and when everybody has that respect of the hand then then

and you know it's creativity you know it it flows really well it's crazy yeah and and also too those guys are like you the riffs just fly out of them like you you have this special gift of riff that is so rare you know it just doesn't happen for people and um yeah so we had that going you know it was awesome Wow. Yeah, yeah. Something so, but those are the simple ideas like that are the most typical, if not impossible, to come up with.

Something so simple, hey, let's someone raise their hand. Yeah. And let the creative idea and be heard. Usually there's a quiet guy in the room with the instrument, and they maybe, you know, musicians are infamously insecure, you know. So, like, the voice will be, you know, and just not say anything and get through practice so you can get the fuck out. Been there for a whole career, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. So with this, that confidence, because everybody's allowed, and then I think having that person in the room for us was, you know, really helpful in the progress to speak. up you know yeah dude something so simple has little that just blew my mind right on wow yeah just raise your hand and the guys there also some an idea like that definitely work for for all you because without trying you you all build built trust with each other and that's also a whole other thing that's hard to do with yeah with other guys build that born trust and trust each other

then trust what comes out yeah and also too with the hand is like the rule is and was still is going forward that no matter how stupid if the voice

is saying it it'll reflect out and be really dumb but we need that really really awful idea to infuse inspiration and oh my god wait you know somebody else will have that and then somebody else go wait wait oh my god ah and then you know that thing starts happening because the terrible idea was said first you know and so every idea is is a diamond yeah every idea is a diamond And that's something that we should all take away from this.

Oh, you're right. Sometimes, like, the, like, the bad idea will create something else. And then, like, then all of a sudden, that you're balancing off ideas that spawned from like this. Awful idea. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so, so was it really awful? Right?

Right. Yeah, it's like, there's, well, our, our, our, you know, insecurity says, oh, I can't say this. people are going to tease me or like rip me apart or roll their eyes and think I'm stupid and you know and that's our survival skill again you know our survival as kids you know we don't want to say something that gets attention yeah you know like I got to put on this this awful fake face and blend in you know and that that not blending in in a in a creative environment is everything yeah you don't want to blend in you're creating you're not repeating you know something that's been wow wow oh my gosh i'm gonna listen to my own

episode over and over again there's so much to like unpack there man there's so it's great and a big reason why I wanted you here was younger bands need to hear these things. You know, there's so much that bands haven't even experienced jamming in the room together, writing songs, man. This is getting out of hand, you know? I mean, I'm like, Ross would be perfect to like, you know, it's like this. Throw a rope out there. Yeah, you know.

Come on, bands. Yeah, there's like a figure out, you know, there's like a different way to do things, you know? Yeah. It's really important. And even me, I'm still learning, you know, still. Well, hopefully you'll never stop. You know, I know I'm not. I learned something every single day and it hits me to my freaking core, you know?

Like, that's a great thing about COVID is the inner journey has been constant, just long mountain. bike rides and contemplating and working working out issues with self and others and you know untangling knots and going oh my god realizing and realizing realizing you know there's been a lot of really cool work and and I think everybody's been doing it on their in their own way with downtime and you know rather than scramble to be busy for the sake of being busy it's like uh for me it was i used this time

to go in you know go in you know rather than oh my god i need to be working rah you know it's true yeah i've worked i work and working is way easier than sitting with yourself and listening to your brain. Yeah. Yeah. That's very true. And without a clean filter here, without this being clean, everything out here isn't going to be clean.

You know, there'll be, you know, just little things all day long that are just not clean, you know, and the cleaner you are in your filter, the more... output, quality output will happen. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What are some knots you've been on time throughout this past year? Um, I guess, you know, um, so sense of anything outside of me happening at all,

being a world outside of my senses, being real. So I can look at this cup and see G, the G, and I think, oh, fucking Garza's cup. That's so cool. And then I have a crazy story behind what Garza means, what the cup means, why you did the cup. and your experience of that is completely different definition. You probably don't even notice it. It's just something you did and you had a few, you know, whatever your story is is not my story.

So we're in completely two different worlds. So this cup in my world doesn't exist for you and your world. It doesn't exist for you and your world. So that's a good one I've been getting way way into that Like You know And then all of a sudden like

Need for this or that to happen Is just Disapparing You know Or this should be a certain way Or that should be a certain way It disappears as

As Okay It should be Or do I look at it the way it is chair black you know am I going to argue with that

it should be brown you know and my should like completely disregards the authenticity of what it's giving and what it's supposed to do and I'm not allowing

it to have its own life I'm judging it and putting it into what forcing it into my manipulated vision of what brown chair you know or turning it into a person you know there's so many things that like like that that oh you said this or you did that or you shouldn't have or you know all of these things went with another person that we do and we we have these these rubs and I'm not

I'm not allowing you to be you whole and complete as however you want to be. I'm constantly manipulating you in what my world believes you should be in my story of what Garza is. It's so fucking limited, you know. And then, you know, we're friends. So you put on the friend face and, you know, and we get along, but is there a thought or something going on inside that needs to be more authentic in our presence? You know? Or is there like a friendship face, you know?

And it just goes so deep into wanting you, just like with the music, wanting the mistakes to happen. Because that's where, to me, God exists in the mistakes. mistake, you know. I believe that. Yeah, and that chill factor happens, you know, the allowing, you know, especially as a record producer, allowing the artist to be who and what the hell they are now, today, not what I perceive you to be, which was a big mistake on Corn Three. Yeah. You know, I wanted it to be so bad, you know, like the dudes and the fun and the craziness. It's a r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-you-know.

And there's a different drummer. Brian's not in the band. John's going through crazy stuff with his wife, you know. And I'm not allowing my picture of what I think it should be, you know. And where's it? What happened? Ra, you know. And I'm off because I'm a fucking manipulator.

Which doesn't give them the allowance to be who they are. today you know and so it was it was a struggle you know and um if I'd known today after this work you know what I didn't know then it would be a much different much different record yeah yeah the one we made early on that I wanted probably would have happened in its own version you know whoa yeah Interesting. Yeah. It was like that with The Cure, too.

Like, I wanted it to be pornography. Wow. The cure, you're the cure. My vision of what I think it should be. Yeah. Just completely, you know, it was, they were open. Everybody was open, you know, to having me lead this vision. But it was limited.

Limited. Yeah, yeah. limited. Wow. So cleaned the filter so I can allow myself to be more for you. Yeah, that's what I learned this year. That's a big one. Yeah, it's humbling as fuck. It's so humbling. Yeah. Yeah. Very humbling. Yeah. Wow, I had something similar happened where I realized I have a massive ego. and that took you know sitting down for a while and it's you're right the word humbling is like it just washes or it's like a bolt of lightning at first when you had that like realization you're like oh my gosh and then you're just like you're just humbled yeah oh my I can't believe

this is me and how now now now now you got to clean the filter yeah and I'm sure you know and that's a whole other process that's extremely difficult to do. At least I think it is, you know, it's a daily maintenance of cleaning your filter. That's the best line of all day today. It's a daily maintenance. That's the most crucial, proper line. Yeah. Yeah. It's what it is. Yeah. It's nuts. Every day, every day, you know, or like, or the day before, sometimes you'll feel like, oh, you know, I feel pretty good. And like when you feel pretty good, the next day you feel like shit. Yeah.

It's like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I don't know anything ever. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. I have no idea what's going to happen a year from now. Now it's a bit, you know, a big learning experience, like, you know, which I told the band, you know, to their faces is like, you know, I don't have any answers. I don't, I have no idea what's going to happen next month or I could have a vision and kind of share, hey, maybe this is going to work. It's not going to work, but, you know, we have no idea what this idea or this idea is going to do. We have no control of what's going on. And now turn that into, like, ecstasy, not knowing.

Where before, you could not know it, and it's terrifying. But if you go into, oh, my God, I can't wait for the nothing. and just be like oh this is going to be the best so you don't know and just just flip it into enthusiastic into not knowing

yeah that's that's the trick because then everything you do is just like an explosion of exploring and it's not supposed to feel good all the time that's a thing that everybody our society is

all about a microwave oven consciousness where you're just you want it now and you're not supposed to feel bad and you know and we we've got phones to shut down those bad feeling feelings and we can feel good hating somebody else

because look how stupid they are here you know with politics or whatever and then addiction addiction addiction to everything so we don't feel

and that's that's walking dead that's living with two corpses strapped to your back yeah just not

letting feelings happen you know you're right that that's a big one it feels like people around us aren't just let aren't feeling or allowing themselves to feel yeah you know because it's not

you know when you sit down for a little bit like oh shit I'm having a bad day didn't even know and it's just letting those feelings have have their way it's a hard thing like purposely sit down is all right here this is happening right now yeah I could feel like you know you could feel like you know you can feel a panic attack coming or something yeah you're so maybe it has something to do with like you spend so much time not feeling.

Yeah. When you finally sit down and feel, like you have these like panic attacks. It's going to come up. Yeah. No matter what. Matter what. You can't,

you can't stop it. Except you can do things like dirt biking, drugs, slamming on a tour, you know, all those, all those busy things, you know,

that are life-threatening, basically. Absolutely. You know, it gets, that gets you into the no-fetched, fuel zone. Yeah. But yeah, this year is really, really, I think it's the best year, one of the best years in my life. Ross, same. Yeah. Do you feel guilty feeling that and saying that? Because I kind of do where like, I mean, this year, obviously, it's been tragic for some people.

But for me, as you just said for you as well, like it's been, I mean, a blessing. And it's been like one of the best year of my life personally did you feel like some some guilt or or uh um it's not necessarily because things went my way you know like i was telling you about house construction it's just brutal and um yeah you know situation isn't like from an outside point of view like what a multi-platinum record producer would's supposed to live like it's not you know and

and it's better than that it's better than that because I get to I get to feel the dirt I get to feel the air I get to breathe I get to

spend time with Carl the dog and look into his eyes and then go to his ear and tell him how kick ass he is like a thousand times a day and pick up his poop You know

It's so awesome To be there Like to be there in that moment A hundred percent And having done A lot of the work So I don't have to Be somewhere else

And And just like Oh God I got more All right go away dog Now it's more like I'm here Fuck

Yeah It's like And I get to be here with you. Yeah. You know, this is awesome. You get all of me. Unbelievable. Yeah, 100%.

There's no me outside in the world cruising around in my head. You know, and I think that's why this has been the best year. Because it's just a recalibration, you know. Recalibration. Yeah. I think for a massive amount of people, it's a recalibration.

Yeah. Yeah. I think for the, you know, for the better. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. You know, our seeming nightmare, you know. I mean, I lost family members this year. It's like, it's not cool, you know, but I can see beyond what death is. Yeah. You know, it's like the G-cup. Yeah. You know, is it what I think it is?

Or is it my nightmare of what movies and storytellers have told me it is, you know? What do I believe? Yeah. I don't know if they were telling me the truth. So death, is it real? Does it even exist? Were we even freaking born in the first place? It's something my mom says if you were, you could never die if you were never born, you know?

And when you're living in your head, through your filter and contemplating all that, it's like, we don't even really exist. But we get to pretend and have a great old time with it and have so much fun being 100% there for the people you care about and yourself. You know. Wow. I think one of the coolest things you could do for someone else is give them your time all, your time with all with all of you attached to it yeah you know just simple yeah i got to do that with a homeless dude yesterday in oh hi he was sitting there and he was like an old minor looking guy and i go hey do you want to hang out with my my dog carl why i go in the store he's like yeah

i left him you know out there and they just hung out and had a great old time and then you know It's just simple stuff like that. Like the voice would normally go, oh, you can't leave your most precious being child dog with a stranger, even worse than that, a homeless person, rah. You know, all of those nightmare stories aren't happening. Yeah. You know, and I can be authentic and real and there.

Yeah. Without fear. Yeah. And that's also big one without, doing that without peer, it's tough. Yeah. You know. Well, if it feels correct and I'm not overthinking it, which is like a riff or a part or a beat or just like you get this feeling of like, oh, all right, don't mess with it. Yeah.

That's it. You know, and then the overthinking, no, it could be worm, m'r, you know, in your head. And you start. And then that essence gets lost. It's like, oh, where'd it go? Yeah, you taught me that. Yeah, you taught me like we were working on a riff. And on two separate occasions, one, we were starting laughing.

Another one was a rip happened. And then we started talking openly about like something a little like a little bit deep. And then you're like, when a rip opens you up, don't fuck with it. Yeah. And ever since then, we're still doing the work. I'm like, oh yeah, if you get that feeling or you start talking with our people or you still opens you up and you're like, oh yeah, it's done.

Stop, stop, stop it. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely talking that. I'm still learning to like, it's so weird that your brain like just wants to come in and fuck and stop moving everything around. Damn near all the time. Yeah. Or when you're playing like your brain is trying to say, no, don't do this.

that when I'm just trying, most of the time I'm trying to shut this off so it could just come or get out of my own way. Yeah. And which things that you'll say that will apply to other areas as well. It's like, I'm like fucking Ross, man. Shit. Awesome. Shit.

I'm fucked forever. Yeah. That's cool. Oh, dude. It's fuck trusting the unknown. That smile like, oh, man. I got to trust that. Oh, man.

You gotta trust it and you know it's hard to trust that. Of course. Because you might not look good. Fuck. Ego. And it's tied with the, uh, it's tied with ego. Uh huh. 100% all the changing and you know and like losing that breathless thing is is ego based.

Like boy do we look good. Oh. And normal. It's funny Yeah You want to change it Because you want to look cool That's

That's dead on Yeah I think about that too Yeah Yeah, that's it I've been very guilty Of that Yeah me too

Everybody Our last record was Was like that It's like Oh you want to do stuff They're like Kind of look cool You know

It's like Oh man It's so weird It just Comes in every time dude and it's so hard to shut it down you know and then when you're conscious of it it's it's frustrating because i think i get frustrated for other bands and younger bands like if i'm conscious of it and i had you know i'm lucky to have like you know you as like a friend that that

could kind of help me with these kind of stuff if i'm conscious of it and i struggle with it man other people that aren't are fucked you know and that and that really bumps me out like man if you don't have like kind of like that mental work where like you know or I need to shut this off so they let the thing come out or not change it because it's rooted you know an ego or you don't you always want to change stuff I'm like man yeah I wish I just tell everybody I know it's like stop it's yeah that's what I love about hardcore and punk rock stuff is like they just don't care yeah it's a rip it's rip the good ones anyway not yeah not everybody yeah and I Trying to have that at least like the with the punk rock stuff like at least have like the attitude and and

And the energy that you you you you can infuse that pretty much in any genre of music I feel like of course I mean you put it just that pure honesty yeah and it's infuse it especially I wish you'll be more in metal stuff but uh What was it? What was it like? Working with Paul Gray? Mm-hmm. Just The dude he was I think I was closest to him and Joey and just pure love

the dude was the genius you know he was the main riff writer and that unique thing like a riff would come out of him because he's left-handed it was just something different and bizarre and like quirky.

Like there was a quirk that was only unique to him. Yeah. Oh my God. Just so willing. The nicest dude I've ever met, sweet, heartfelt, loving. A couple weeks before he died, he called me up. And I was driving on Washington Boulevard by, by, um, Taco Bell Tai up in that neighborhood.

And he goes, he goes, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm driving on, and I told him where I was for some reason. He goes, my grandmother that raised me just died, and that's where she lived when I was a kid. I'm like, dude, she's right now telling you that she loves you. He's like, he started sobbing on the phone. He's like, yes. because it's impossible for you to call and me not know and give you my location. Oh, my God, he was just like, oh.

And then he goes, Mike, I'm having a baby. Whoa. I'm like, oh, my God. You know, that was our relationship. It was all about love and support. And I did an Instagram post about, you know is anyway somebody asked what do you what story do you have and that nobody knows and his mom i guess she was you know she was using and um single mom and just dropped him off and

Daggett, which is like five miles out of Barstow. And we were living so close together in the desert when we, I must have been in junior high or something. And he was like in elementary school, kid by himself all alone in some like ratty desert house. I know right where it is. He showed it to me. What?

Yeah. It's, dude, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. crazy that area. We, my family, um, we had like a bar out in this town called Yermo and, and Yermo and Daggett were like the same people and, yeah. And it's all like hardcore, like hidden desert people like welfare and it's brutal out there and hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. It's the heat, like he was just, just little kid like hungry, some stranger, probably, probably some dealer or something. I was just like, oh my God.

And when he told me that story, I think I'd give him this big giant hug, and we were just desert brothers forever. Yeah. It's just like, God, I wish I would have known. I would have rescued you. Wow. Yeah.

Just so real. so real and so sweet and then right after the baby announcement he died yeah it happened right after huh it was so sad man yeah

and it's that thing you know the filter confusion fame stuff happening for you seemingly for you and it's just like all of a sudden you know

I heard this this thing like if you look at your friends around you that you have right now you're looking at your future yeah and his future wasn't too pretty when they were on the road you know yeah

they were rough people and um and that's not who he was yeah you know it's just addiction is it's something else but if you were never born did you ever die you know and his

his essence is real and it's alive you press play it comes through and he's completely there yeah 100% um forever and ever and ever yeah yeah and it's living

it's inspiring it's loving it's giving it's giving It's creative. It's pulsing. It's got a heartbeat. It's beautiful. It's ugly. It's imperfect.

It's perfect. Like all of it. All of it. All of it. All of it. And it'll drop you to your fucking knees. Yeah. Yeah. We got it.

We captured it all the way. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. When they were... At his funeral, I was like, they were done speaking and they started lowering his casket. And I started clapping and applause for how beautiful he was.

And everybody started clapping too. I remember clown turning around and looking at me like I was a fucking freak. Wow. Yeah, it's just beautiful. Wow. The boy was beautiful. Yeah. He seems like such a special guy, man. Yeah, he's my brother. One in a million of not more. More? Yeah.

One in one and one. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. Well, you had lost a one in one in one in your band. That's never to be repeated. Never again. Uh-uh. You know, and it sucks out. You don't, like, realize that until a lot. like, you know, it's over. Mm. You know, it's like, which is okay. Yeah, that's true. You don't want to put that head trip on anyone.

Yeah. Yeah, true. Yeah. You're a god. People will worship you and copy you. Yeah, that's true. Oh, that's too much for a kid to handle. Special people, man.

Yeah. You're right, the one-in-ones. Yeah. You're like, what the fuck? You're a one-in-one. Thanks Ross Yeah And you respect it too

You know It's awesome I do too Oh man You said You said something During the We were doing the record together

And kind of one of those things We're like You know you're really good at Addressing Like the elephants In the room And you were You know

Normal morning You're having your woo-woo salad You know drinking your Pete's coffee and then you said you know you don't want to be remembered

by the band a Heather singer that died and that's something that I wanted someone to tell me but no one's ever told me and you're the only person to this day actually that's that's said that to our faces

you know you don't want to be remembered as that band and yeah you know because I don't and it was one of those things like you just wish people

were just tell you like you know especially producers you know like especially you're writing music like man you don't want to it's not over you know and it starts right now here the past is gone doesn't exist it's over we're here yeah now and now and now yeah we're at the beginning of the podcast that's true that's true yeah yeah where do that that that I mean, I don't know what to say. I might say, I don't want to say you don't care, but how do you just get that filter or you don't have it, you just say it? You know, like, do you just not think about it?

You're just like, this is what it is and I just got to say it. I don't know, man. Stuff comes out of my mouth and. That's true, too. I have no idea what I'm going to say. I don't prepare anything at all. It's just whatever is going to happen in that moment. and just try to be there for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I think that's kind of how you do it. You can't really prepare to say stuff like that. It just has to come out on all levels, right? Yeah, too much preparation just gets, you know, it puts everything that you know into play to get it perfect. Oh, wow.

and what I know is so limited yeah and minuscule what we don't know is infinite what we don't know is infinite what we know is totally limited it's not even worth mentioning that is very true I was hanging out with CC

and a few days ago here and I was having being like a mild panic attack because I was doing a experiment basically what what you just said I wanted to let go of this conversation because you know obviously you don't I'm going to do a podcast with I mean I told you like you besides my parents like you and you and James are like my favorite humans on the planet you two are like why you and James are like why I am who who I am you know So naturally, like, it's like, oh, I can't, first of all, I can't believe, like, Ross is coming over and he's giving me a shot and he's doing this. And obviously, it's like, what, you know, I'm doing what we're doing.

You need to be paired, have questions ready because you don't want to let like a low. Yeah. With you, I said, fuck it. I'm not going to ask any questions. And this wave of panic did not stop until today. Oh, good. It's great. I mean, right on.

Because I knew like, well, I didn't know, but I was like, I just let that thing happen. That's going to be the best conversation. And like the, I was freaking out, man. Like that's just like, the way how like your brain just reacts to like not just wanting things to be a certain way. Yep. You know, I had no questions ready. I was like, I know my, just sit down and have a conversation. That caused a panic attack, dude.

I was like, what are you doing, dude? You're going to ruin it. You're going to ruin everything. You're fucking stupid. bad. And sure enough, you know, but as like the moment unfolds and you go into the unknown, it was actually beautiful. Yeah.

And perfect. We just wrote a song together. Oh, fuck. Dude, I look back on them, again, doing the record together. When we were working on that first song, one, again, we go to feelings, not memories are kind of baited, but there is feelings. And the first song we were working on together. you obviously it's the first time we're working with you

and you go into eddie it was like oh what's going on we never never experienced that before and then you told alice to fucking hit the drumsticks and then right when we went into

it happened to be like a song with like a blast beat in the intro and that wave of chills came in with a head phone's on you're in this teeny room and ross robinson's right by me my favorite dudes in the world my hero is in the same room him and as you explained earlier like the wave of chills and like oh this is what they fucking did

yeah yeah i don't want to say i get it because i don't get it honestly because good exactly exactly but i'm like oh okay okay yeah it was so amazing to have that experience and to look back and have that experience is there's no price tag the price tag on the few moments you know we've had talking and you know me just trying to be cool front of Ross Robinson I just want I just wanted to think I'm cool fuck I just want him to like me so fucking bad it's so funny it's funny man but that's how it was you have we have our masks you know and those moments dude I still I still cherish today yeah and I'm applying in my life Not one ever.

Oh, God. You know, riding, you know, riffs now and, you know, we're about to get in the room together very soon with the guys. And those, that toolbox, like, you gave us. I cannot wait to finally bust it open because the last record was like, we really didn't. That's cool. You know, like, just think of, you know, both of those as transition periods, you know? It's just transition and growing and evolving and evolving and, Yeah.

You know, finding what you don't know. You want to find what you don't know. Yeah. Damn. That's one. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

There's no mistakes ever. Yeah. Ever. You know, all of us want to, you know, be loved and have massive success and all this bullshit. And, you know, that, you know, that. thing about it. It's like buying that doge coin. I saw Alex posted something like... Oh yeah? Yeah, he's invested. Oh yeah, oh yeah, they're... Yeah. I think they're kind of keeping it right now. Yeah. And as soon as Elon Musk toys with the public and says, oh,

something about that, it goes woof. And then all of a sudden, you have something to lose. It's the same thing with, you know, a band blowing up too soon. It's like all of a sudden, whoop, you have something to lose. And it's all a dream. It's fake digital money. Fake digital love. In thinking that that means anything at all whatsoever.

whatever. It's, yeah, of course it's great to have like luxuries like a car and to be able to put gas in it and eat without looking at the prize tag is like, oh my God, it's like heaven on earth. But if you didn't have those things, you would still get to where you need to go. You would still not starve to death. And you would probably have a more rich experience of life. you know because you'll appreciate everything more and I'm not saying success is bad but you know the the um the road and the and the the process is the gold

not the uh not the result the result is complete total fantasy bullshit no matter what it looks like good or bad It's not real. So, you know, like what we've been talking about is the process, and we didn't get the result that society says is good, but we got something better because we wouldn't have learned anything. None of us had it gone our way.

It would have been easy streak, happy days, you know. And the challenge of now what, how am I going to hold on to this? It turns into a total nightmare and egos and, you know, drug and alcoholism and insanity or whatever it is for people, you know. So, yeah, I say like the process is, the process is everything. It's the thing that, say, I listen. to a record that I recorded at any time period and I get to feel and see those people and

where my life was at that time I don't remember the years of my life or how old of anything you know but I do remember time and space through the art and the records and the grit that happened during those

times you know that's that's my bank account is those experiences and those feelings and those lessons and those failures and those wins. And you know, like, that's what, that's where the worth is, is the process. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, the process and it seems like the failures mean more, mean more than the successes. Well, you can't fail. If you love the process and you give everything and you're absolutely authentic, it can't fail. Like, for you. Yeah. Like, you gain everything.

Gain so much more. Now, your weapon is sharpened into creating, you know, you go through a fearless zone. Yeah. You sharpen the fuck out of your weapon. and it wasn't pretty and then all of a sudden you know you go out and create something

that's just gonna smoke yeah you know yeah it's it's the way it is that's man everything man one last question and then we

we get out this actually ties into what you were just saying which is perfect um was there a time where when did when did the shift happen we're like okay like things are different now like I'm now I'm

successful and the band I'm about to record is now successful or when when when was that and and how did you deal with it and did you fall on your face and have to recover and then how did you recover well my manager at the time would call me up and go hey buddy I got a check for you I'm like okay cool it was like some insane amount of money I'm just like oh my gosh he goes are you happy buddy and I'm like I yeah

because I was working I was like in Malibu like yeah just it's so intense and burly you know dealing with an engineer that was late

every day and in bands that hate being up there and yeah you know but the music is sick and so it was like a world of it was fucking tough it was so hard like every record it was so excruciatingly painful because you know like I tried so hard and I would just feel so exhausted like I don't ever want to do this again and then you go are you happy buddy for the result

And I'm just like, yeah, I guess, yeah. Huh. What's going on? What's wrong? Like, nothing. That's awesome. And I would put on a show of happiness. Like, yeah.

Yeah, cool. You know? Yeah. Because my world was not related to the result. Yeah. And then in the where I think, I had to deal with it was getting into racing dirt bikes, you know, in my early 30s. And through my 30s and mid to mid 40s.

And I wanted to be like a pro, local level vet pro, which is plus 30 before I turned 40. And before that, I raced as a kid. Yeah. Before I started playing guitar. my mom pulled me off the bikes from getting hurt and then I just grabbed a guitar and that was you know what created us being together and um so I I got back into dirt bikes after the cure record like way hard like I live in mechanic I had two practice bikes Suzuki was given me a bike when one year they gave me two and I would get free race gas like 55 gallon

barrel because I was this producer guy and I would walk my mechanic would you know like we'd take two practice bikes in case one of them broke down to the track like every day in between records and I just made records broken all the time I was always on crutches and you know I broke 27 bones you know during that that last stint and I think it was just you You know, after the cure thing, I was like, now what? You're just dead inside of me. I was just like, fuck. What?

Yeah, like, now what? Because everything went my way. Everything. Yeah. The most beautiful girlfriend, the most kick-ass house, on the beach, dirt bikes. Go to New York. I invested in a nightclub. models, rah, hotel rooms, bra, you know, fucking walk in and everybody, hey, that was my social

life in New York, and it was just like, fuck you, and woo. And it was cool to experience it, but it wasn't where it all started. and where it all started and what created this life was having my head on the floor in humility, asking for help, or praying for the dudes not to die. You know, that is the core of what you hear in the really good records that I did. You know, it's that, that, which is selfless. giving and in creation you know and and being um there to hold the space that allows the unthinkable to happen yeah wow yeah not the not the nightclub in new york no not not the

models, not the hotels, not the, you know, business class, first class flights, not the, you know, big old pats on the back, not the love from the record companies, not the, you know, oh man, they really want you to do this and this year so blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah, you know, you know, it's really cool if you don't believe in it. You know, I think a dude like Robert Smith is a hero for me in that area in that he is legally blind

whoa yeah you've never seen him with with glasses on he wears these sunglasses sometimes like raybans yeah and and

those are prescription but all the time most of time airports everything he can't see people looking at him So he's free

Yeah He has no There is no world going There's what is him You know And he's lived that That authenticity of being Him without

Having to hide So That the lipstick and the hair Is actually authentic It's badass and it's him He can Fucking rip it dude That's so sick

It's so badass I'm like Oh my God God, hero, hero. Dude, what's it like when he shoots you an email or like, when he, like, when he hits you up? Do you still get like, oh my God, I just got. It was, it was really bizarre. I was running just a little late to get to the Hollywood Bull Show.

And everybody's there just to see him, you know, his, you know, he heard that thing that comes through him. And he sent me a text, hey, Ross, we're about to. go on hurry up and get in here and go over here i'll have somebody meet you and and like and i'll meet you and i'm just like if anybody knew that like right five minutes before he walked on stage and it was just so surreal because i lived on highland in hollywood right down from the hollywood bowl and yeah i always wondered what it was like to go to a show at the Hollywood Bowl, you know, in 85, like, oh my God. And I go there and I'm in that moment of being 17 and just moving there and I'm in the parking lot and my favorite artist that ever existed

in human history is sending me this message of love and in hurry and I want to see you. And like, words can't describe it, dude. It's just So bizarre. It's so bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. That's... Man. Yeah. That is bizarre. That's such a trip. I know, right? Yeah. And then you got to act like it's all cool. How do you act when that happens?

Well, that's the thing where I made a huge deal with myself that, you know, I would ever came out of my mouth during the process and all. that I had to be absolutely ruthless in my conviction and authenticity, you know, just say what I think, you know, give him my opinions and, you know, that's what he had me in there for and drawing fire out of him. And I didn't, I owed it to my love for my favorite band ever, and I owed it to every cure fan that's just dying to hear him rip. Just they want to get inside of his guts, his core, his soul, everything,

they want to know more, and they want to feel him. And I was like, oh, my God, I was ravenous for it, you know, like, I'm going to do it. Yeah. Yeah. So it was terrifying when,

It was like, oh, it's not. And I'd go, all right, let's go through it. And he'd be like, oh, no. But, yeah. So I think he, well, he told me that he loved that about me so much that nobody ever did it with him. Yeah. They're they're you know, he has the deal with that you know people don't give him that because it's him yeah you know and so it was good to be that person wow yeah tough that sounds tough yeah scary but excited excited you know like enthusiastic about jumping into the unknown yeah It's scary, but is this guy to jump in?

Oh, my God. I saw him kick the fire starter out of the studio. Yeah? He was in there, you know, that guy? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he passed away. Rest in peace, man.

Yeah. But he was in there talking about his drug cocktails and how this and that and Robert came in, in all of this ruthless goth badassness and said, I don't like you here, you need to leave right now. And the fire starter was like 10 feet tall into like a microscopic size person because the goth lord of all

just fucking smoked them out of the studio for being... Yeah. That's intense, man. Yeah, I was just like, whoa. I don't ever want to be that guy. Damn. Yeah. Yeah, so he knows the power of word,

and so he is really sweet and light with everybody. Yeah. Not the fighter starter that night, though. Yeah. He just sounds very honest, like a very honest, humble guy. And Abivas. And Abivas, of course. Yeah.

That seems to be like the main ingredient. Yeah. He's awesome. That seems to be. Yeah. That's it Man well let's Let's end this one on a high note

That was great Thanks Ross for For making this drive down man It was awesome Dude yeah I'm just Stoke to be here for you Yeah it's a good thing

I'm truly honored Ross You know I could publicly say that You're again like you're one of my favorite humans On the planet If you've done so much for For our genre that, again, keeps on giving it and keeps inspiring new music and bands.

And you have such a massive piece to that. You know, and again, you know, I'm a 90s new metal kid. That's just who I am. You know, I'm very proud to say that, you know, you truly help, you know, shape who I am and who I'm still becoming. You know, and I'm very, you know, I'm honored that, you know, I actually call you a friend. Yeah, same here. And speaking about bizarre.

So what reality is to me is so stretched and like, wow. Like this is real life, man. Yeah. I think it is. I think it is. Maybe. Is it? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, do you got anything coming up that do you want to share with the world, man? Well, there were two releases this last year, Tushé, More. Cool. The album Lament, it's got the stuff, dude. It's got the chills. All right. It's so good.

Check it out. So badass. And, yeah, it was one of the good ones. One of the, oh, my God. Sick. Fuck. And then Evitz mixed it. Oh, awesome.

Yeah. He did a killer job, too. Nice. And then, um, uh, ghostomane. Dude. Antimother. Yeah. Anti-mother.

No, that's Norma Jean. Anti-Icon. Yeah. Jesus. Dude, what was that like? That's a sick fucking record, man. Well, him and Arthur did all the writing and stuff and prepared it digitally. And then I came in for the sick...

The sickness? Yeah, just to infuse it with some... hype yeah yeah yeah and my gig was it was so

fun like to be there and and see this true artist like wow he's so unlimited and talented

and sweet authentic just wow what a fucking dude and um i feel like he's i feel like he's you know if it wasn't for covid he'd be the new headliner like taking shit over yeah um yeah i was just

completely blown away and honored to get to work on it and and make new friends you know making friends yeah yeah but um so there was there was Arthur who he's a great producer

killer engineer and he lived with Eric for you know the whole time doing it on top of what Eric did on his own

and nice yeah there were there was some vocals you know there's there's some

tracks that I didn't get to work on with them and I was just flipping dying I wanted to dig in so hard on but he was like

okay this is this is really good I'm happy with what happened here and you know I was in a certain place and like he explained it all and I'm like okay that sounds legit and then I was just like we can't go deeper there goes digging

but it's it's perfect you know that the stuff we got to work on was just really badass and it's great you know yeah yeah and we recorded at at this ghost town in um between here and mammoth place town called lone pine there's a a gold mine like half hour from it and um there's like a 20 minute drive up a dirt road to get to it and um of course i hold the record of speed of how fast to get up there. I made it in less than 10 minutes. Oh, wow.

Full tilt, wide open in the Raptor. Oh, my God. It's so cool. I have it all timed. I sent the owner my time and he can't, no matter who goes up there, dirt bikes or anything, they can't beat it. I'm just like, yes. Too, full tilt. Yeah, we recorded in this bar that, you know, there was like people murder. and card games and like whoa yeah it was

really cool and it was fucking freezing so cold like the wind was blowing and we'd light up this big pot belly stove and it would heat the room like this old cowboy like wood floor everything's just

like you know they had like cheap electrical not in the walls it was like outside the walls like and two months after we recorded that bar burned down. What? It's gone.

Wow. Yeah. It was so cool, man. It was so cool. I'm just like, God, I would love to have gone back up there and ripped. But, um... Oh, man. What had the chance of that burning down?

Yeah, after it was built in like, you know, the early 1900s, maybe 1800s. Yeah. You know, cowboys. stuff. It's gnarly. It's intense. Yeah. So, and it was more authentic in its preservation, like the

curtains and everything was just raggedy cowboy because the dirt road was the barrier like not anybody would just go up there. So it stayed jacked up, you know? That's sick. Dirty and like, God, it was awesome.

That sounds awesome. Now I've got to revisit that record knowing that backstory now. Yeah. There's a really cool acoustic song that we did where Arthur played the acoustic and I sat

Eric right in front of him and the microphone and I don't think you can hear the wind blowing but it was howling and we went through the lyric and the story and and and Arthur is like I'm here for you Eric I love you so much and Eric is like I love you too. Wow they just played this really simple he played this really simple thing with his best friend like right in front of

him and you know it's got it's got that thing you know it's really sweet. That's cool Yeah, it was a story of his father passing away and him staying in Florida at the house where, you know, just a couple months earlier or a year ago earlier, there was like a family in a unit. And his mom was driving away with his little brother, I think, and him. Just watching him drive away and staying at the house empty with no furniture alone. It's just like, oh, the agony, this is going to be good. You're stoked. I'm stoked to get real feelings in true love. True love.

Sometimes I think true love. and sometimes I think true love comes out when things aren't pretty when it's tough that's true yeah that's when it comes out you know it's like

the ego falls away and the only thing that's real is love yeah yeah so that's the high note that is the high note well Ross again thank you

for being here Thank you. It's good to know that there's humans like you out there still putting out pure records and pushing like new artist. You know, it's great. Still doing it. So hopefully I want to have you

back here with Steve Evitz. You want to have one with just him first? Yeah. Yeah, when I went just him and then I'll have the party. Yeah. Maybe get Alex in here too. Oh shit. I'm too. I'm down for that. Holy fuck.

That would sick. That's your idea. I'm down for that. Okay, Steve Evans and Alex. Yeah. Man, that's some big gun shit right there. I would say bringing everybody, but I know it gets a little hat of hand. Yeah.

Yeah, after like, I think I found like three guest tops. I could barely handle it. Fuck. But hey, let's go to the unknown. See what happens. You know, I'll have my little panic attack and I'll come in out. Have a great time. Well, now you don't need to attack because it'll all guide its own way.

That's true. Yep. That's true. Well, Ross, again, thank you. Until next time. All right, everybody. Later.