Garza Podcast - 114 - LIONHEART | Rob Watson: Hardcore, Mental Health & Staying in Shape on Tour

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with Rob Watson. Vocalist of American hardcore band LIONHEART. Catch them on tour with Suicide Silence, Kublai Khan & Paleface! https://linktr.ee/lnhrt SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Sports Talk 05:26 - Playing w Bleeding Through in Orange County 08:03 - Drummers Are Fun To Watch 12:48 - Lionheart & Suicide Silence Are Touring Europe Together 14:16 - “New Money Old Pain,” Facing Inner Demons, Mental Health 20:56 - Dealing w Highs & Lows As a Band 22:05 - Lionheart is Playing the Biggest Shows They’ve Ever Played 28:23 - Lionheart / Hardcore is Huge Overseas 30:47 - Why “Valley of Death” Are Rob’s Favorite Lyrics 35:29 - Rob Speaking on Mental Health, Depression & Anxiety Medication 46:19 - Rob’s Education Journey 49:37 - Drugs & Alcohol, Losing a Friend to Addiction 1:04:46 - Rob’s First Drink at 28, Talking Tequila 1:10:34 - Tequila Crisis in Europe 1:15:16 - Bass Players are Chill 1:17:13 - Prepping for Tour, Staying in Shape, Stress-Free 1:21:18 - Favorite Memory of 2023 1:24:02 - Lionheart / Suicide Silence Tour (cont.)

Haven't been on like a big label. We haven't been like cool or not, you know, but like the people are showing up. So I don't get it. I asked you last time, why is hardcore bigger out there? Dude, I don't know. It's funny too because even in America, it's like it appears big sometimes online. Like on Instagram, hardcore can appear big in the States. But it's like the fests are big.

But then the shows outside of a couple bands, like they're still doing 150, 250, maybe 300. 50 kids. Use EMG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. Head over to emgpickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off. And then once you write the heaviest song of all time, head over to distroKid.com slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms. And now to the heaviest podcast of all time. They're my adopt team. I've been in California. Talk to the football team. I've been in California more than half my life now at this point.

At this point, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And they're like an AFC team versus, so it's not like that deep, you know? Yeah. It works. But still, you need your Monday night football. People that love football, love football, dude. Dude, it's wild.

Yeah. I don't get it. Do you do any sport? I played, I played T-ball when I was a kid. Yeah. So that was pretty much, I was killing it, dude. Yeah. I was a sick second base.

A sick. I mean, to be fair, the ball is sitting right there. The nature of T-ball. Okay. It's on a platter for you. It's on a platter? I didn't even think about that. Yeah.

T-ball, it's kind of, you're kind of set up for success, you know? That is true, huh? Yeah, yeah. But it's still hard. That's true. It's hard. I mean, to take a swing, it's hard. Yeah.

Golf. Also true. It's right there. I'm not a baseball guy. No. I can't do it, dude. You're just straight football. I mean,

obviously unpopular opinion here in America Let's go I get that it requires An intense skill set No doubt I don't have the skill set No doubt Maybe more skilled in football

But if you can be like An active participant in the game And be like eating Just relaxing It doesn't feel like a sport Like the people in the outfield That are just chilling You know, chewing or doing whatever they're doing.

Yeah. I don't know. You don't get it. I don't get it, dude. That's like not a... It's hard to hit a ball going 100 miles an hour. No doubt. Hard to throw a ball going 100 miles an hour.

Chilling in the outfield, just snacking? Just snacking. I don't know, dude. I don't know. It's not for me. I don't get it. Yeah, that might be the most boring position. Because the three of me out, you have the right, center, and left.

You're just out there. You're just out there, dude. You're chilling. That's a lot of time of thinking about your life. Also true. Crazy because you're like, you spent your whole life

trying to be in a major league and you're finally there and you're just hanging, dude. Golf would be sick. Like to be, if I could choose to be great at any sport, it'd be golf.

Paid hell, like, nutso money. Yeah. Chilling. There's not a lot of like physical expectations, you know? No. You can look kind of

however you want to look. if you want that John Daly look Dude, it's exactly what I was thinking That dude was bawling Dude, I should go for the John Daly look Dude Smashing beers Mid, I don't even

Game Yeah, mid game Well, it's to do what he does It's like impossible Because you need like You need to be precise With your swing I know

And but you're drinking It makes no sense Yeah, he's a G I can't even write in a fucking drink Nah, he's a G You know before the band I tried out for the golf team.

Really? Yeah, I wanted to be either because at that time I mean I'm, oh fuck, I've been playing golf and I was like in diapers, dude. Are you good? Yeah, you're like decent. Yeah, if I stuck to it.

Oh shit. I was playing really consistently until a high school in a freshman year I tried out for the golf team and I legit wanted to be in like the PGA tour. It's like this is my game plan. Boom. I want to do it.

And I try to. up for the golf team, I almost made it. But it was a weird scene. It was like, I'm trying to put it in, like, a nice way where... Where was this? This was in Corona. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Krona high.

Trying out for a golf team was like a... It was a... What's the word? Snubby? Yeah, yeah. Seeing, I was like, oh, it's not my thing. I was already playing guitar for a couple years at that point. So, like, that was kind of like, okay, I'm going to put this inside.

It's not, I'm not going to go for on. It was the same. It was like I played sports when I was young, young. And then once I got a hold of, like, skating and music, I was just like, I'm not going to practice. Is it? Yeah. Like, I'm learning how to play brain stew. You know what I mean?

Like, this is going to take me all night. I can't go to practice, you know? Not going to happen. And that simple decision that you made has taken you here. Isn't that weird? Hey, you know, I'm doing this. Now I'm doing this. It's a beautiful and exotic Santa Ana.

Yeah. Yeah. You made it, dude. You're in Sanana. now box checked yeah well speaking of that i mean i do love santa anna for us you don't know real quick santa anna is connected to

anaheim which i mean that's five so house of blues from here is like five miles away yeah and i just i just saw lionheart there dude that was fun it was cool that was great first time i ever seen your band yeah shout out to bleeding through to brandon's g that guy puts us on i was joking about it with him backstage and they have no reason to put us on like it arguably doesn't even fit and they certainly don't need us, you know?

Sure. But I think for the last, I do 10 or 12 years years that they've played local shows, I think we've played every single one. Actually, because you guys were also on the chain show. We were also on the chain show a year ago. And before that, we played, they did Observatory in San Ana, right down the street. You're right. We did that with them.

What the fuck? Dude, I'm not joking. We've played like every single. like SoCal bleeding through show for the last 10 or 12 years. Is he making it for a lost time? What was the... Nah, I mean, we've known each other

for a long time, and he was actually one of our... Was he our first man? I can't remember. He may have been. Yeah, I think he was our first manager like many, many moons ago, 2010 or so.

Or maybe he was our second manager. I have no idea. He was our manager at some point. Dude, he may have been our first manager. But, and, like, he's just been, a friend of the show ever since then. You know what I mean? He managed us for a little bit when he was

trying to do the like band guy turns manager thing, you know? That's tough. Yeah, yeah. I think he was like working with dog or something like back in the day. I can't remember like whatever, some Orange County thing. And yeah, yeah, probably only managed us for six months or something. But then we just stayed close

and he's always hooked up the band. It's crazy. It's sick. Dude, it's awesome. Like, get to go play, sold out House of Blues. That was a big moment, dude. I was like, damn, it was crazy to see you guys and them in that room. It was awesome.

That was like a perfect night, dude. It was sick. And it was cool for us, too, to play a show like that. You know, like, on, I guess, to that side of the spectrum, you know, in front of those type of people. It's obviously different for us out here. So it was cool. Room was singing along. Like, we had a great set.

I was can't ask for anything more, but wouldn't have been there without Brandon and the rest of bleeding through. So, yeah. It's crazy. It was, dude, it's like, yeah, it's crazy. It was, dude, it was a big moment. You guys are jamming. I was just, for some reason, I was just locked into Jay Scott. Oh, dude.

Just just look at him and play drums. Sometimes you're just, drummers, the biggest look cooler. It's true. So it's just like looking at it. I'm like, damn, that's sick. I've been salty for a long time, dude. I don't feel like Jay ever got the credit or gets the credit, you know? that he deserves.

He's... Jay sick, dude. I'm glad that you brought that up, dude, because he's... Like, in our world, I don't think... I don't think... I don't know any...

I haven't seen anybody be able to compete with that. That kid is awesome. It's a fucking beast. I was just looking at him. I was just locked into him. He's a crusher. He's a loving to...

He's... Because I could tell it. He was locked in. He was locked in. He was locked in. He was like, yeah. He kills him. He's got a bunch of...

Yeah. He's fucking cool, man. He's locked in on the groove. He's a groove master, dude. Jay is the man. He is. He and I were just joking other day. He turns, actually he turns 35 on the day that we fly to Europe.

When do you guys fly to Europe, by the way? A few days prior, like on the... We fly on the 10th. The 10th. You fly on the 10th. Yeah, yeah. Because you guys play London. We get out there to just practice because we don't practice.

We don't live by each other. So anyway, we fly on February 10th, which is also... Jay's... birthday shout out jay love you little guy um and he's turning 35 and we were joking because he was like dude i've been in the band since i was he's been in the band since i was 15

yeah 20 years it's crazy it's my little dude yeah it's nuts how did you guys not kill each other i have no idea i love jay jay's my guy that's that's jay's my guy he um yeah i wouldn't do it i wouldn't want to do it anybody else obviously because it's rare when the drummer sticks around.

Yeah. You know, drummers have that, they have that extra extra if that makes sense. And it's not like a singer extra, it's just an extra something. I'm curious what a singer extra is. I want to dive into that,

but yeah, he, uh, I feel like good, good drummers are hard to keep because they're hard to find. So other people always poach him. Yeah. Or they do like the touring drummer thing or the studio drummer thing. Like they've always got

all these extra little spots they can go, I feel like, and did it. it takes him away, you know? But, nah, J's, that's my guy,

dude. I smile thinking about, I love, that's, that's my guy. He's, he's incredible, too.

So I hope people, hope people, hope people, hope people get that out of the show, too. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. That's cool.

Yeah, you guys obviously have to, like, the chemistry. Yeah. You know? Oh, yeah, we rock together,

dude. He was nuts. Yeah. I don't know. It's crazy. That would actually... I mean, dude,

he didn't have his license, you know? he didn't even have a license when he joined a band. Oh yeah, 15, huh? Like, I had to go drive and pick him up, you know, take him to practice. Yeah, and that's nothing about drum say tend to be the youngest for some reason.

They're like, you always get kids. I remember, like, one of our first bands, we fucking, the drummer, his dad lied to us. He was 13, but said he was 15. Yeah. He was a baby, dude. It's crazy, dude. It's just weird.

Yeah. It's just weird how the worst. But, I mean, yeah, surprised he's still in the band. It's cool. Yeah, it's awesome. You guys obviously did, You obviously did something right with maintaining your friendship. Yeah.

You know, and because it's easy to fucking just... I know. You just get sick at each other, dude. I know. He's a rascal, though, dude. He's hilarious. He's like the band joker, too.

Like, he's the jester. You know what I mean? He's just, like, the funny dude. He also, like... You'll never not see him loading. Like, we always joke that he... Every band has a thousand inside joke, so this won't be...

I need a single other person listening. But, like, we always joke that he went to, like, trailer loading school. Like, because no one else will want to load, you know? And Jay was like, oh, no, it's okay, I should do it. I graduated from, like, I went, this is what I went to school for, so let me get it, you know? That's, like, the joke, because the dude's always working, you know? He's always, he's just the guy. That's full.

Shout out to Jay, man. You are a fucking sick drummer. And I was locked in. I had a beer. I was in that perfect, like, state, you know? I love it. We're not like, I'll never

not have a drink at a show. There's something about having a beer. This is, this is something, I don't know, I can't put my finger on it. I kind of just lets down whatever guard I think I have. That subconscious guard,

and then you kind of get into the music more, if that makes sense. And you guys are playing London first, right? I saw. The dome. Yeah. The venue's tight. So I've,

I fucked this up all the time. So I put it on the, the top of my notes. I'm ready. So we're going on tour together. So February, we're going to where? Germany. Germany, Belgium,

Netherlands, France, Czech Republic. Yeah, okay. That could be it. Yeah. Germany, Belgian, France. So if you're in any of those places... Australia, Vienna, Australia.

Austria. It's pronounced Austin. Really? Okay. It's pronounced Australia. I will take I'll take your word for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Well, if I guarantee you if you go to these shows, Rob will take off his shirt. I guarantee you he won't. I guarantee you he might. I guarantee you I might. Yeah, exactly. But I also guarantee you that I won't. 60% at the time it works every time. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. 10 years ago. go. It would have. That'd have been a bet I'd make. Yeah, that would have been, push your chips in. He's taking a shirt off, yeah.

Now, no. I eat as much as I can on a regular basis. Yeah, it's that, that's stress eating. Yeah. Yeah, just piss. Just being old and mad. It's just weird. It's life gets hard when we get older, though.

I know. It's just, like there's something about, I was, I was listening to you to explain new money Oh, pain Oh yeah And it's just true Yeah, it's crazy

Dude The What I post that on Instagram or something? Yeah Yeah That was cool Jacoby from Papa Roach Like posted that

Um Song like After the album came out And like had a whole thing about it It was crazy I was like what? Yeah What do you say?

That he was just like listening to I think it was like a Like, he posted a bunch of stuff into stories and everything, and I was like, holy shit, that's crazy. Like, how the fuck? You know? That's dope. I know.

It was wild. So, yeah, it's not like a single on this. Like, a random song of the album, you know? So, yeah, it was an insane moment. People tend to really attach themselves to those kind of songs. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I was stoked about it. It was cool, dude. But, yeah. Isn't that, like, doesn't that, fucking suck that when you get older it gets harder to wrestle demons is that is that is that a thing

I think it's like the the lows are lower because you're you're tired you know but I also feel like a lot of it gets easier like I feel like I've done a good job like I've always struck like I mean I've it's pretty well documented I speak about mental health issues all the time it's a

but it's something that I'm passionate about for personal reasons and for just reasons in general. And so I feel that I've worked in for a very long time as well. So I'm very attached to mental behavior health as a whole. And so I do enjoy speaking about it. I speak about it a lot on stage, speak about a lot online. But all that is, and my lyrics are obviously all 90% of them

revolve around that stuff. And so, yeah, I don't have any part I'm talking about it. And it's funny, I obviously spend a lot of time thinking about it. and it's interesting. I struggled a lot when I was younger, shaped, like, had a pretty big impact on the trajectory of my life, for sure. Like, a lot of decisions were made during a time where I was dealing with a lot of those demons. But now as I get older, it's almost easier, like,

because I feel like you find your own, you get good at finding your peace and protecting your peace. You know what I mean? Like I'm not as troubled by a lot of the things that I would have been troubled by In my younger days Okay, yeah You're right So you get like you get like the two sides You get like you experience the lows more and

It's like the mids more you know It's more like even it's more even keeled I feel like you know Hmm okay Maybe I'm just like in a better Spot mentally now or something I'm not sure but yeah Well being a good

when you have a good mental spot it comes up I feel good some days you just wake up I feel good yeah holy shit it's nice having that's like why I still do the band

because it's like that's my therapy that's my outlet that's where I get to say everything that I can't say elsewhere or whatever

you know what I mean like it's just that's so I think there's a lot of it's cathartic in that way you know like that's my therapy yeah and he almost left it

yeah yeah yeah very temporarily yeah i know i know we talked about it last time but how how old were you when that's a good question was that 2016 so 28 29 i don't even yeah yeah it happens in your 20s you're like you know yeah i'm fucking don't with this dude exactly it's over no exactly oh imagine if you would actually committed to that decision at the time you convinced yourself that this is I would be miserable yeah crazy and we don't tour a lot like we go to europe twice a year we do a few things here and there in the states multiple times a year like we don't do a lot we're obviously not like a full-time band you know so it's like I just need like just a little bit you know to be good so it's like man I couldn't imagine not having not having it but I didn't think that

you could do it like that like I think I had in my mind like okay if we're not going to be a full time band, if we're not going to go 100,000 percent, then it's got to be zero. It's like it's got to be all the way or no way. Yep. Yeah. Because it's hard to strike a balance. It's hard to do it and still be relevant and still get to do cool things. It's not...

True. You know? So, because there's obviously a lot of bands that have tried that and it didn't work great, you know? And it's like, I didn't want to have that fate. So, I don't know. It's just like a weird. It's weird because he can't protect the future. Nah, so. Yeah. it's easier to give up it's easier to just say fuck it

it like you know yeah I always want I want to give up some time sometimes like a creep in the head you won't do it but it kind of ties into to that song new money old pain that sometimes I'll especially drive in here you see like you know homeless people

and like I always think like man I just just the responsibility just fucking being alive man I just want to fucking just not worry about money be homeless. Yeah. It's like, fuck,

fuck this. But then, like, something that's, you know, keeps you going. Yeah. You guys are killing it now, though.

The new album's awesome. I talked about that last time, actually, too. Thank you. Through, yeah. I can't remember who I was just telling that, too, the other day. I was talking to somebody about,

because I was talking to somebody about the tour. And I mentioned the new album. I was like, yeah, the new album is insane. Like, I don't even listen to that style of music. You know what I mean? But it's awesome.

Like, it's hard. Yeah. I have a, a similar, you know experience with with you but this was like mid-20s like man I want to fucking quit dude

but yeah if thinking about if that decision actually happened yeah you'll be miserable dude be miserable you guys have had I feel like we've been pretty even you know like you guys have had crazy highs

you had that moment obviously where you kind of changed the style you know you dealt with all those people it's terrible Mitch obviously like so many different highs so many different lows so many different weird eras of

the band like that that would be a much I feel like your journey has been much more extreme I'm gonna say difficult but it's been more extreme like my heart's been pretty middle you know like we're doing great now and that's fantastic but we haven't experienced all the same

like highs and all the same lows that you have yeah I could not imagine it drove us Nuddy. Yeah. Nutty. Like mentally,

it was like, nutty. You had to really, like, control, like, like, like your thoughts.

I could not imagine. I truly could not imagine. Because you've experienced, like, yeah, you're right. I mean, it's just like,

like, you have like the extreme. Yeah. Emotions, the lows, the highs, the highs. Totally. And now,

and now you're balancing light, like a fucking airplane. Dude. It's just like, what the, and then trying to navigate getting older in general.

Yeah. You know, which I mean, we all, I think deal with it's hard It's worth we're getting older While trying to navigate her own shit, her own life And then have that

And in the genres we subscribe to I don't think that makes it easier To get older either You know what I mean? No So it's just gonna go away Oh no You can't

You can't Yeah Dude it's a miracle I always say this But it's just a miracle We're still here Totally I can't

I can't believe in you guys I mean You're playing like the Do you think you're playing The biggest venues guys Have ever even played Yes on this next tour Yeah

I mean, thanks to you guys, but yeah, this tour. When were I headlining? You are. Well, dude, I mean, I don't think everybody's coming just to see us. I'm pretty sure about that. But, yeah, it's that this next tour is the biggest headliner that we have ever done by far. Like, it's terrifying. Is it?

It's good. Dude, a hundred, yeah, I'm fucking scared out of my mind. Yes. Yeah, hell yeah. That's what I want to hear. Fuck, yeah, dude. Dude, yeah. That's cool.

Not confident. No. It's terrifying, dude. I mean, if we were going out playing like 500 cap clubs, then I was like, yeah, okay, cool, let's go sell these out. Yeah. But yeah, dude, I mean, like, take Leipzig, for instance, that'll be the biggest headlining show of your career?

Of our career. Fuck. Yeah. I mean, House Ansi is what, like, 3,500 cap, 3,000 cap? I don't know what it is. Yeah. Over three. It has a three in front of it.

So, like. Either that's insane. Yeah. You know? So, yeah, it's like, that's scary, dude. That's crazy. That's scary, but it's also exciting. Yeah.

And a lot of the venues, like, they're all, like, kind of the next level up from the last tour we did, you know? And so it's like, fuck it, let's go. I mean, it's the hardest package. Like, it's so funny. Tom, he plays his guitar for Stray. He manages us. we were talking the other day

and it's so funny to me because when he and I were thinking about like okay what do we want this tour to be like the headliner this exact lineup we said like okay

dream lineup suicide talents oh wow pale face literally dude I probably still have the text from like a year ago when we first started or like nine months ago

we first started thinking about it you know yeah then it actually happened, which is even more insane. Like, that never happens. Never happens, dude. Never happens. You've built a thousand headliners before.

Is the, is the lineup you go out with, the lineup you thought you'd? It's like the last, it's actually the one that you didn't even think up. It's the one that like your manager or your agent calls you were like, hey, actually, everyone else said no,

so now we have this, you know? And it's like, that's what I was expecting. It's crazy to have, like, gotten, been able to put together the lineup. that you actually wanted. How did it happen? I mean, first step was you guys. I called you.

You and I just talked, actually. Which I was tripping on because I was like, I can't believe I'm going to call. Suicides I was like a fucking idiot. I was like, this guy's going to want to murder. That's literally what I... I'm pretty sure I'd have like Tom or Wally our guitar player like probably hype me up or something before I called you.

I feel like a... Yeah, dude. Suicide sounds. I mean, yeah. It's cool. So, I'm pretty sure it took me like a good 45 seconds to actually ask you. It was, oh, yeah, you know, you guys are there. And I, like, had to set it up, you know? Oh, my goodness, dude. Oh, my goodness.

First had to do that. And then Kubla Khan, like, we've been friends of them for a long time. And Scott Lee, their manager, managed us for a long time. And so that was, and we had taken them out before in Europe on a headliner. And so, like, our camps are pretty close. That wasn't, like, too difficult. Paleface originally couldn't do it. They were going to do a different tour.

And we were like, fuck. And then that tour, like, canceled and just, like, fell through. Rent to be. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, meant to be, dude. Yeah, so we got pretty lucky on that one. But, like, what a nuts lineup. It's crazy.

That is crazy. It's the hardest. Yeah, it's crazy. The lineup is great. It's crazy. And what's crazy about you and Linehart is like, you don't really know about your band unless you know about your band. Totally. So for me, like, approaching, like, the rest of the guys are like, what?

I had to, like, convince them. This is why I felt funny calling you and asking you, because it is true. It's like the most known unknown or something. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, your fans know you in Germany and Europe, like, oh, this is massive. Yeah. But they're playing. Dude, totally.

And, like, I mean, I didn't know until I did, like, extensive research on you. Yeah, dude. I didn't know. I was like, oh, shit. I mean, they're playing massive fucking shows out across the ocean. Yeah. And I didn't know. So now so, but now I know from looking into it after a few hours of doing research.

Yeah. So I had to tell the guys, trust me. Yeah. these, this is a different story across the planet. Yeah. You know? It's a trip, dude. It's a...

Ernie got it. Yeah. A drummer, he knows pretty much every band. Hell yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's a trip, dude. I can't...

The lineup is crazy and the shows are selling wild. Like, yeah, we just did that post the day with you guys. Thank you. And, yeah, a bunch of the shows are already at like 75. 5% Wow Sold, I'm like, the fuck Like

Like, like why? Did they think they were Did they mean to click on Knocked Looze or something? Like, you know? But people that know Especially on the scenes People that know about your band know

Yeah If you don't know They have no fucking idea Totally Because we're not like Is this is that we haven't been on like a big label We haven't been like cool We're not, you know

But like You know It's bizarre that it works enough so I don't get it it's crazy yeah why is hard I asked you last time why is hardcore bigger out there

dude I don't know it's funny too because even in America it's like it appears big sometimes online like on Instagram hardcore can appear big in the States but it's like the fests are big but then the shows

outside of a couple bands like they're still doing 150 to 250 maybe 350 kids, you know what I mean? Like across the country, outside of like a few major markets where they can pull off like some bigger shows, sure.

But for the most part, it's like you have your pockets of like big fests, you're for the children, you're FYA or blah, blah, blah, you already know the drill. Like you have your fest and they smash. But outside of that, it's not that big, save five bands, you know? Sure. In Europe, it's just different. I just think the culture around music is different out there. And like I also don't think it says

Like you'll see when we go out there I mean We've been a hardcore band since we started But the You can't do a couple thousand Like people in night just hardcore kids You know what I mean? Like they don't even exist

So It's like Festival people are going Like all sorts of people It's different Like it's so many different So many different So many different types of people

It's really interesting It is Yeah, it's very interesting, dude. Are you bringing out Value of Death for this one? Yes. There you go. Yes.

That's sick. My all-time favorite song, dude. Yeah, it's dope. Yeah. So, yeah, you had these lyrics for, like, years, and you didn't even have, like, you couldn't find a song to put him in, huh? Exactly, yeah.

I wrote Valley Death, like, the lyrics to Valley Death probably 10 years before the Valley of Death album, and I just didn't have anywhere to put him, and I was, like, it's probably the same like when you write a riff or something and you're like almost protective of it you know yeah you're like I'm not using I'm not throwing this isn't going to be like a filler riff I'm not letting this get buried and you save it it till it's the right for the right song you know that's how I was with those lyrics I was just like

oh no I love these I don't care for anybody else ever likes them I love them I'm saving them to like I have the song that I want to have you know so why are they your favorite lyrics I don't know. To be honest, I just like, yeah, I liked the flow. I felt like it was like my most honest,

you know, the most honest version of that type of moment, you know? Because I've been writing about all of that forever. It's like 90% of my lyrics are, are about, you know, similar topics or,

you know, around that, that space, you know, depression, mental health, whatever. And so it's just like anything. Sometimes you feel like you did a good job at it, and sometimes you're like, okay, it's like a passing grade. You know, I probably could have explained it differently or framed it differently.

That song for some reason, I just felt connected to it. I just felt like I told the story exactly how I wanted to tell the story. That's like not always easy. Sometimes it does, sometimes the story, like you're like forced You have to force a line in or you have to, you know, you don't have all the options you want to have because you're trying to make the words fit into the song, you know? In this case, I had already written the words and I had written it exactly how I wanted to write it. And so I just felt like I did what I wanted to do in it.

Hmm. Yeah. So that's crazy. There's no really reason. I don't think it's like the best Lionheart song or something. It's just my favorite because I think that it's me at my. most honest and it's just a story. There's no

chorus. There's no like it's just you know. A minute 30 a banger. Yeah. Done. Done. But I'm from the old school. I love I love a good intro. You know what I mean? People aren't rocking intros anymore. It's true. It's going straight in. Yeah. I love the

intros, dude. So. Yeah, people right now are just fucking, you know, you know, I have a little bit of foreplay, man, you know. I agree. Yeah. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. So here we are. Or maybe like the intro just needs to be really just to hook you in somehow. Yeah.

You know, it needs to, because that's actually the hardest thing to do also like just stripping away was not needed. Surprisingly, that's very difficult. Very, very difficult. I mean, even like we, I feel like. I can only imagine for lyrics, you actually have an actual story that you're probably trying to convey. Yeah.

And it's so funny because it's like I, those. songs never end up being the biggest songs, you know? Like Valley of Death was it, it's bigger now but when it came out, like I tried to make it a single. It was like the lead off single of that, of the album Valley of Death, yeah.

Huh. And I don't think it didn't really work at the time, you know? And so in retrospect, but it's like, dude, you know how it is when you're a band. It's like you, I feel like you're constantly making decisions of like, okay,

when you're choosing a song like that or even when you're choosing your set list, it's like, okay, do I want to play what I want to play because I think it's awesome? Or do I want to, do I play like what I know other people want to hear? You know? And that was like when I tried to have Valley Death

be the lead off single for the album Valley of Death, I was just like, you know what? I fucking like this song. Like, this is my shit. Lead off single. Didn't work. Yeah. You know?

And so it's, it's a, it's, It's a nice ego check sometimes. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But I mean, it's good. Now, I mean, it's your top 10. Dude, now it's crazy.

Now it's in the top 10 on Spotify. So I'm like, all right, cool. Maybe I was ahead of my time. You know? That's what I like to think. Sometimes things creep up. You can't. It's crazy.

You don't know. Or like, you might put out a record and then they'll go back and then they'll connect to this song. You just don't fucking know, dude. I also think like it's the same with any band. It's like when you, it's like, With Linehart, if you know parts of my story and you know what I speak about and you know how I feel about mental health or behavior health in general, and then you hear that song, you know, okay, this makes sense,

you know? And so I think that you kind of need that context for it to add up for the listener sometimes, you know. Yeah, sometimes you need any context. Yeah, yeah. So maybe that's where it's at now. Hey, Jay, do me a favorite play that clip. I told you a plane fucking crank it

crank this shit I'm gonna do what do we got I'm gonna test test something okay you mention you mentioned

uh hey jay you mentioned uh that was hellfest in France right yeah yeah that's a sick festival

dude you mention bipolar so is that something that you dealt with yeah I think I had I noticed bipolar when I was

I actually don't remember young like kid like middle middle school or something you know yeah really dude I was yeah and this was like a wild time too because I was a kid during you know 90s early 2000s or whatever and that's when like my recollection of it

at least was when I feel like the pills started to get more more popular and they were just like parents were being told to like put their kids on this and put their kids on that and it was like pill

I felt like pill mania you know it sucks and so it's like dude I think I was on it everything you could be on you know what were you on

dude I don't even remember on a fixer was one that like just didn't work well for me um I don't know I was on a ton of dude I was on it

everything and then like you know all the bullshit like the like I don't even that's not even though I honestly can't even remember yeah because I was probably like 10, 11, 12, like, I don't remember, you know.

The effects I was on later on and it just, like, didn't that fucked with my mind in a weird way too. I'm just like, now I'm not on anything. So. Yeah, you're right. There was like a time where they were really pushing like your kid has ADD or serious your kid. Yeah, like the eight, I feel like there was like an ADD explosion and then like everybody was on like riddle and then Adderall and then all that like it was crazy time. I can't do. I'm terrified of.

Adderall. Terrap out of it. Oh, that shit's wild, dude. Especially, like, as a kid. Like, I'm not saying it's not, it doesn't make sense for some people. Of course it does, you know. But it's also, I, I, yeah. 10?

You're a kid, your child. Yeah. The way I experienced it was there wasn't a ton of, I don't think there was a lot of oversight. So, in the prescribing process. So. So what? you're so you're you're a child and then what like like your mom's like I think he's bipolar or I it happens at the it happens at the school at this at least for me it was happening at like

the school level you know like you're getting in trouble you're not performing well in class or they're noticing behaviors that are inconsistent with what they would expect for a kid at that age level right um or age or um class level and so you know they'll go through they could go through any number of other. There's school psychs at like every school, you know, so they'll go through all these other different processes. Um, put you on different, they'll evaluate you, put you through a series of tests to determine what resources you may or may not need. They may talk to your parents that may suggest you see somebody outside of school. Like there's a lot of different routes that you could go. Um, and so, yeah. And that and that and now is it. And then so, so the school says this

And then that and then and turn from that, okay, now now you're seeing an actual doctor. Yeah. And they. Like a school psych's not going to like, a school psych evaluates you for a set of resources you may or may not have access to or need. They don't diagnose you, so to speak. Okay. You know, they would tell you that you need to see somebody outside of it. They would suggest your parents that you need to see somebody outside of school and then you would do that.

And you're diagnosed with bipolar. Yeah Bipolar Like Then they What was Oppositional defiant disorder It's like

It sounds made up But actually I don't know I googled it like a couple years ago Because I was like I wonder if that was made up Apparently it's a real thing I think it's just like another name for

Like being an asshole I guess To be honest Like I don't know I feel like that's honestly like a time where like Yeah and they said that ADD And ADHD and like all these different stuff You know, like, they were just like applying it to any kid that had any problem, you know?

You get riddling and you get adder all and you get this and you get that and, you know, and it's like... It's like just call your kid a F.A. a fucking asshole. Yeah. Your kid is diagnosed with F.A. A fucking asshole. It's crazy, dude. It's crazy. Crazy. By polar, what, I mean, what are the symptoms of that?

I mean, it could vary for anybody. It's just, and it's going to be different. for everybody. I think like as a life progressed, that was less of an issue for me and it was more just like a, I guess like a general depression that I had dealt with and I just never responded well to, there was never like a pill or a prescription that made me feel better. It just, it always seem to make it worse. And actually, I don't want to add, I'm not advocating for people not taking medication or something like that for, I mean, these are all diseases that in a lot of cases make a lot of sense to take medication for and people should take that seriously. For me,

it just, and I'm not sure if it was a medication thing in general or if the dosage wasn't right or if the prescription was right or what the case was. But for me, I just, I never responded well to it. and it brought out the worse sides in me. You know, it made things a lot more difficult. What were the side effects? I mean, for me, like in my, I can't remember what I was on specifically, but in my late teens, whatever I was on then made me far more, like, violent. and it was just it was it it it was weird dude i don't even know how to explain it like it was just

a very bad dark time so damn yeah it's crazy and again it's less is like uh the same dosage of the same prescription may work wonders and save one person's life and it may throw somebody else into a tailspin, you know. It's just like that's the nature of... It's true. That type of beast, you know? And so for me, it just didn't feel right. And I felt myself being an even worse version of myself than I was trying to get away from.

And so, yeah, I think once I turned 18, I wasn't on it. I just stopped all of it. To you're talking at least like eight years. Of being... Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's like I'm not... dude that's why it's like me it's like hard to even say what I was on like I I'm serious I was

probably on everything you could imagine being on you know so depression medication anxiety medications bipolar medications like ADD medicate everything it's all different you know I mean they all do different things and so um and it's like you go to one doctor it doesn't work you try another one and like half of them like dude they're seeing so many fucking people like they don't give shit you know like that was also a different time for um Like big pharma as well. There wasn't any rules. Like...

That's true. There wasn't any rules. It was like... The pills they were prescribing were based on like who had the best looking like female sales reps and who was taking doctors out to fucking dinner and stuff. My goodness. You know what I mean? It wasn't like... Again, I'm not like saying that's every doctor or something.

But like a lot of people had poor experiences in the prescription world. because they were either inauthentically evaluated or inauthentically prescribed or whatever. Like can you remember like what you were like, I mean, let's say high school, can you remember what you were thinking and feeling like on all that shit? No, because also like I don't think I understood the impacts of, like, I got to take some ownership obviously, you know, I don't think I was. I wasn't always taking things in the way that I was being prescribed because if I wasn't feeling good on it or if I wasn't feeling right, then I would pause taking it.

And then I would, you know, they'd try to start me somewhere else. And so you never really like, it takes a long time for your body to get used to some of those medications. At least that's like what's, again, for some people,

that's how they experience it, you know? Yeah. And so if you're constantly pausing and changing up how, how like that's not your body's not going to react to it in the way that it's supposed to react anyway so the whole thing was bad so it's like if you ask me how i if i remember how i felt on that not really because for most of my high school like i was probably

switching between like medications in a weird way like i can't i can't even imagine so it's just like it was never right you know it was never right it was just weird dude that's why i say it did more harm than good, you know? Yeah, how was your time in high school? Because just being a kid is already hard. Just being in high school is fucking hard. And to add on top of that? I didn't really go.

So, yeah. Where'd you go? What were you? Yeah, I mean, I didn't. I, uh, the last, I mean, I had a, dude, I had a pretty wild, uh, I guess my, my education trajectory is. is abnormal. I ended up getting my GED, long story short.

The last grade I completed in school was ninth grade. Really? Yeah. That was the last grade you completed. Yeah. Although I did go twice. You went that grade twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were that guy. I doubled up. I was like, you know, this is kind of chill. This kind of chill. I think I may hit this one more time. Let's run it back. It was not cool the second time. Fuck, that sucks

Actually, I don't even Did I? No, wait I honestly can't even remember now But the last grade I completed Was ninth grade Why did they keep you back a year? I don't even

I just like wasn't doing my work Like I didn't I just like didn't participate You know? Like I just I was in a bad place You know

And For whatever reason I just like wasn't able to uh yeah I wasn't able to make it work you know um and

yeah the family was going through a lot of like transition then as well if I'm remembering correctly uh and um yeah like we there was times we didn't in between places you know what I mean um

and so single mom two kids like that whole thing and in between homes and that it wasn't like going to school wasn't my first priority, you know? So, yeah, eventually ended up getting my GED. So didn't actually like complete high school, but did end up getting my MBA from Kellogg,

which is like a top three school in the world. Complete opposite. It works out sometimes. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. So, so what, like, what was going on when you were supposed to be a sophomore? And, and, and so, so you complete the ninth grade for the second time.

And then, then what, then what happened around, around there? Yeah, we just, like, there's a lot of stuff going on home. We, um, my mom had, like, my mom, my stepdad at a time had had broken up. So we were kind of, like, in between places, like I said. Mm-hmm. And that was, like, a little bit of a wild time. and I just wasn't like school wasn't what I

was gonna do then you know we didn't have any money like we didn't have anywhere to like stay at a hotel something like doing the whole thing you know and so one of my other friends was like in landscaping and got me a job and I was like all right this is cool

like so I'd start working well you're probably 14 I was like 15 yeah wow yeah already working full time fuck it yeah okay yeah so I mean that at least probably kept you out of trouble. 15, yeah.

Kind of. I mean, yeah. Were you drinking back then, or no? No. Man God. I didn't have my first drink to I was 28. 28, really? Yeah, I swear to God.

Holy fuck. Also, not straight edge before you ask me. Okay. I just didn't drink. How did you go on such a, like, what sounds like such a chaotic life? How did you go on without drinking? I think I just like saw a lot. I had a lot of close friends growing up that,

were addicts, drugs and alcohol, and one of my best friends in the world was, and pretty severe alcoholic and a drug addict. And I spent a lot of time when I was a teenager, like going to AA with them or NA with them to support them. You know what I mean? And you're teens. Yeah. And so, like, during that same time, right? Like, when I was, like, 15 or 16 or whatever. Yeah.

And, yeah, so I think it just, it would have felt weird, you know, to, like, go to A.A. with your best friend or N.A. with your best friend, three to five days a week, and then turn around and drink. Like, it just, it wasn't, and I wasn't, I don't, I was never not drinking because I was against drinking, I just genuinely didn't have the urge because of what I had seen going on around me, you know?

You were seeing it firsthand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he struggled with, like, a lot of people I grew up, struggle with a lot of that. But, yeah. And so, yeah, I had a lot of drug issues and alcohol issues, and they eventually got the best of him, led him to make some pretty poor

choices, and now he's doing 35 years behind a murder charge. so it's like crazy you know and so that shit's nuts that was yeah and probably from from your

from your like perspective he was like a cool guy was super chill just trying to just trying to get better geez beautiful person one of those beautiful people that I know you know and it's it's more sad too that story is is incredibly sad

but it was crazy Afterwards, too, because I remember, um, dude was nuts. It was like on the news. There was like a, it was like a nationwide manhunt.

The FBI fucking came to my house. Like, dude, yeah. It was when I was living in California. Actually, at that point, I had already moved to California. I was probably like 19 or something. I don't even, yeah, 19 or 20.

I don't know. I was like young, you know. Um, and he wasn't living in California anymore. And, uh, the FBI came to my house. to ask me if I had

had any contact with them in the last couple days. And I was like, what? No, why? Like, I don't know, we hadn't talked that week or something, you know? They asked me a bunch of questions. And then it turns out they're on a fucking manhunt for him, like, across the country because he had, yeah, made some poor choices. It's crazy.

And so anyway, after they finally caught him, I went and visited him Like I wouldn't visit him a ton like in jail and then in prison Yada yada yada well I was at the trial I did all like spoke did all that stuff you know And it's like I think That stuff is always sad because Sad for everybody involved you know

Like it goes without saying but I'll say anyway Obviously sad for the victim and anybody who knew the victim And whatever other direct and indirect impacts like stem from that No doubt I think it's also said for me personally knowing this person saying hey like

it's wild to watch somebody be two people you know like the person he is now is not the same person that committed that crime and did those things you know like when heroin or alcohol or any type of drug or whatever has a hold on you

if you've ever known anybody that's been through that like that is not them, you know, I don't think they have true agency. They don't have power over themselves. They are in a, they made the choice to be there, obviously, but at that point, they're taken somewhere else, you know? And so it's fucked up to see, like, somebody sitting there almost paying for the crimes as somebody else, like, they're just not the same person.

And so it's just a sad, it's a sad thing to watch, you know? Like, the justice position of those two things, I think, is just, It's a wild thing to watch. Yeah, what do you think that is? You think it was just... I wrote a bunch of songs about him, too, and again, anybody else who's ever followed, like, Lionheart. 30 years was written about him.

Brothers Keeper was written about him. Escalante was written about him. I try to write a song from almost every album. So... He sounds like he was one of a very good friend of yours. Oh, he's my best friend. Yeah. Absolutely best friend.

I've always like, do I think about that Like what makes people Make those kind of Choices I mean for him it was drugs I mean because I You know we've been best friends forever I grew up with them and

I mean he's my brother you know and Like Dude I mean we've Been everywhere together done everything together And I've seen all these different versions of him You know Like when he's clean and when he's sober for

Yeah, and he's on a good stretch, like a good six-month stretch, you know, and for anybody listening that doesn't know somebody's going through that, you're probably thinking six months,

like, that doesn't sound like a major deal. If you've known somebody that struggled, six months is can be a long time, and it's certainly enough time for them, for their personality

to change, and for them to be a different person, right? And so, anyway, seeing them in that state where they're kind of pure and they're themselves again,

and then seeing them revert back to this person that you don't even know you know like that's just a wild thing to witness over and over and over again because this was like a constant constant thing right constant dude and I think a lot of people

know somebody like that unfortunately and it's like how many times did he go to rehab oh dude I mean I don't I truly don't know more than five times again I always I always wonder like what makes people go back

especially when they have these lengths of success and then they just go back all the time always like what is that yeah it's at least from my experience it would they're everybody they just have triggers you know

and I'm not an addict I don't know what that feels like so I guess it's hard to comment on it but from what I've seen and what I've lived with and been a part of. I mean, that's who I moved to California with. When we were 18, we got in a car and drove to California together, you know? Fuck.

And so it's like... That is heavy. You know? That is sad. Yeah. It was, dude, it's, yeah, it's... Yeah, it's, uh... It's probably a hard of your comment on, but do you think some people just, just don't change?

I don't know. I think it's your... And this is obviously like a... There's a lot of sides to this coin as well or this argument. And I am a – and again, a lot of people are going to feel differently. I am a big believer in the product of your environment. Yeah. Side of the argument.

I think there's one side that's kind of the, oh, everybody has a choice and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And anybody can be anything and all this – and yeah, sure. That's totally true, totally valid. I think I'm a version of that story. Last grade I completed was ninth grade. I got my fucking GED. And then fast forward a decade, I get my MBA from Kellogg, one of the best schools in the entire world. Fine, cool.

What they're not recognizing, though, is that you still start from different starting points. Okay. That's the difficulty. you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You can do this, you can do that, that's fine. But I think everybody ultimately is a product of their environment, and you start at different starting places. Like a lot of people have head starts.

People have different, it depends on how you grow up, all these different things. So it's like this person, for instance, he was dealt different bad hands early. He started at a different starting place. He found himself in scenarios where it was normalized to make decisions. like trying heroin for the first time or like drinking when you're too, you know what I'm saying?

Like not everybody is in a scenario where it's normalized to say, yes, I'll try heroin for the first time. Like that's not normal for a lot of people, right? Not because you know better or you don't know better, but because your environment dictates the context in which you're living in, you know? And your ability to make quote unquote good decisions or your ability to make quote unquote good decisions or your ability to recognize what's normal and what's not normal. And so I think that plays a part into it for sure.

You still ultimately make your own decisions, so I don't want to say there's not ownership on either side. You know, you make a bad decision, make a bad decision. But there's that. And then alcoholism, drug addict, those are diseases. You know, like your body's having a chemical reaction to things that you put in it. So yeah, you made the choice to,

put that in your body you made a choice to to do that for sure but it's a disease like you don't get to just wake up and change you know like you can change being an asshole or not you know like true it's it's annoying when you see somebody who's just a dick yeah that's like a changeable habit you know yes that's very true you know what i mean or like like that to me is changeable um wearing two polos at one time that's changed You don't got to be a dick like that, you know? Like, you don't got to do that. But I think, you know, playing,

those headless guitars. I hate those. You don't got to do that. I don't know if I struck a chord with you right now. But I see that. I'm mad. You don't got to do that. That's a changeable. That person can change if they really try.

I look at an asshole when I judge it. I judge it immediately. I see one of those. That's fucking ugly, dude. It's terrible, dude. That person I do believe can change. I don't think that's a disease. It's close.

It's close. And there's probably some disease component to it. But ultimately, I think that person can change. Folks that are, like, dealing with real issues, I don't know, man. That's hard. That's hard. Yes, they can, obviously. There's a lot of people that do.

I think it's just, and I don't want to sound like I'm, like, apologizing for somebody that has clearly made poor decisions and made poor decisions. consistently, there has to be ownership there, but there's parts of it that that are just really difficult, you know, and really hard to watch, especially when you love somebody. It's always a weird stance that you have with something extreme when it's someone you know very closely,

like a best friend or a brother or a sister. It's very different. It's different when it's like a, you read a headline or you watch news or you hear your friends doing with this. So you're just like, but when you're just see it all the time. It's easy to judge. this man it's hard when it's your own people

though dude yeah I mean it's it's crazy it's sad dude it's yeah it's it's fucked up and I never really talk about it I mean I tried to write a song for him on basically every album until it got like repetitive you know but

I was curious if you but weren't you guys from the same area no he was actually no we were not from the same area. Okay. We grew up in different spots, but we met at a, uh, a juvenile's retreat. Oh. Yeah. Damn, okay. Yeah. What is, what is that like? A little club med for bad boys.

And so... Really? Yeah, so when we were both like super young and we were just, um, like, like, attached ever since then, you know? It's like, you know, we were just like, okay, we're, one, you know? And it's like it helped us both kind of get through. that that fate, that environment, and you kind of got to team up, you know what I mean? And so, I don't know, it just, it's so funny, dude. Like, I still remember it. I think about all the time. Like, I remember being at this young men's retreat, you know, and this little club med for juveniles. And sitting there doing my thing, probably thinking about how to climb the fucking walls or something and I just saw him walk in like he was getting I was I think I got there

a couple days before him you know so I was still new you know um and uh I saw him get like dropped in and I don't know we just like looked at each other and we're like we're the same just we're gonna be buds just just just new just new sometimes you just know dude it's one of those things great like all right let's go and so yeah we just partnered up and got through it both got you know both were out at the

same time roughly and then just like we just stayed stayed pals stayed close did our thing moved out to California together and yeah

I supported them when we were out like I said like going to AA with him going to NA with him doing all that and so yeah just didn't feel right to do any of that while you were like trying to like hold someone else's hand through it. Dude. So yeah, I didn't know my first drink till I was 28 crazy. What was your first drink like? Dude, such a ridiculous first drink. Um, my, my, it's an insane first drink. My first drink was a, um,

white Russian because I loved the big Lebowski. It's a good one. It's an insane first drink. I may be the only person on the planet whose first drink was a white Russian So I just remember thinking like this kind of just tastes like weird milk Yeah I wasn't that impressed to be honest with you But Namibu will hit you fucked up you had three of them I mean you're dunzo for sure yeah

Yeah that's yeah you're out you're on another planet The white Russian dude Yeah weird first drink Why I guess they were just You were at some bar they were just I didn't know what to work Because I'm like an adult and I've never drank So it was like a weird

I don't know what I think you know what was the uh occasion there wasn't one i was i think i just i literally woke up one day and i was at that point i was only drinking because i hadn't drank i mean i was only not drinking because i hadn't drank you know what i mean sure there was no longer any reason like i okay there was nothing left so yeah

i don't know i just felt like i was like I'm gonna I don't know I was just not missing out I don't think it's like that extreme but kind of you know it's like man I'm 28 yeah it's like why am I still doing this you know

I've been hearing about these white Russians dude I'm gonna drink it yeah the dude looks like he's having a good time what's my deal yeah and then less than 10 years later you're out at a show drinking shots of tequila I do love tequila

yeah big aga guy the guy tequila mescal Yeah, that's all I drink. It's apparently made for a good show. I agree. Yeah, yeah. No, that's all, yeah, that's all I drink. Love it, dude. How many did you have that night?

At House of Blues? Yeah. I didn't have that much. I was trying to be on good behavior. Okay. Yeah. Because I wanted to not suck, to be honest with you. So maybe only a couple.

A couple? Okay. I was chilling. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, too. Maybe four. I thought you were casually raging because I saw you at the bar. I was at, yes, that's true.

Yeah. I was like, okay, he's probably, this is going to be a good show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, that was my first guy, you know. Well, they didn't have the good stuff backstage, you know what I mean? They weren't hooking me up, so I had to go to the bar. I'd take matters in my own hands. Yeah.

You know, I need my 1942. I'm not playing around, dude. Okay. And they actually had it at House of Blues. I was like, damn, that's sky. How much is a shot of that? I actually remember being cheap at House of Blues

cheap for 1942 which I thought was odd I swear to God it was like 25 bucks or something for a shot yeah just cheap for 1942 in my opinion I mean it should be like 40 bucks

40 bucks for a shot probably yeah I do hear that the best alcohol to drink is like a shot just like that like around like the 25 to 40 mark those kind of shots yeah I think once you don't get

go pass to that, it's, it's bullshit, dude. Yeah. There's some, I mean, especially in, like, I think in tequila, too, it's, it's interesting because all, like, the Class of Zools of the world, like, all those super expensive ones, it's so sweet, like, it's too sweet. They, there's so much flavoring added in it. And it's, like, it's expensive just to be expensive. And you don't age, like, Inejo, tequila,

three to four years or something, maybe five. It's not that deep, you know? So, like, a reposato's two years. Okay. Why is it so expensive? It's not like whiskey where you're aging it for, like, fucking 25 years, or 50 years or something crazy. We're talking about two years for a repo.

That's not that deep. No. Once you get past a certain point, it's just marketing and branding and, like, plus those bottles, they're, like, hand-painted. Like, classic little bottles are hand-painted. A lot of those are. So you pay for that, you know. It's bullshit.

It's like, just, just, just, just, Just give me the core of it. Just give me good stuff. Dude. There's a great, Cava de Oro. It's probably my favorite. That's a great,

that's a great, great, great brand. I've been looking at trying a different tequila. Because my band downs it, and I realized I was boozy like a couple months ago. Love it. Like we were just like,

because they like doing, I mean, I'm there too. I'm doing like fucking three shots before a show. Classic. But this is the warm, tequila we usually get

the rocks which is a good it's fine but I get at the point like sometimes when you're on tour for two weeks and so you know

now you get the point like I'm yeah I want to throw up and then and then I fucking I got home and went to some

to get some pizza with the friend he's like you know try try this and they they they chilled the shot

and poured lime juice in changed my life I'm not doing shots anymore don't give me any shots I don't do shots I don't want it I want it you better come correct when you approach me I want I want I want a fucking chilled

dude with my I'm not going back no I don't want shots dude I like it I'm like a nice nice sipping tequila nice sipping mezcal well that that is the way you do it but yeah yeah yeah I want a shot though no I don't do the shot I don't do the shot right now we're fucking doing a shot right now

I mean yeah sure but that's the only bummer about being big in Europe the tequila situation Oh yeah it's rough Less than ideal It's rough dude It's not good

It's the one with the It's a red hat on top Dude And we try That's probably That's probably what started The bro Puking aspects

It is so bad That's the worst tequila on the planet It's like $5 a bottle Europe doesn't like Mexicans They don't dude They look at me like I'm a fucking Dude They're not having it

And have you, what's this, uh, there's a, I'm kidding. I mean, there's, there's, oh shit. Dude, well, it's funny, like, I feel like their version of Mexican culture out there is crazy. Like, when they do have, like, a Mexican restaurant or, like, they'll have, like, Mexican drinks on, like, a bar menu, you know? And it's always something insane. And you're like, I don't even know how, I don't know how to describe it because it's so crazy. It just, it's like, it's like the, it's like the. worst version of like a chevies you know yeah like the mo it's like whitewashed

mexican times a thousand yeah destroyed it's kind of bizarre how long it took mexican food to get out there remember when london got chepaute it was a massive deal dude dude we we all went there it was like oh shit we're going to chopold yeah it just hasn't it just hasn't it just hasn't landed out there dude it's just not it's not the thing got it they had a they got a Taco Bell and Amsterdam Game Chender Do they?

Really? Yeah. Oh yeah. And now you'll be like fucking yeah right on a place like that like Amsterdam

or somewhere in Germany you'll find like this random Mexican spot Oh shit Ocho Otradeo obviously you're gonna

Yeah yeah Yeah you can't expect But it is You haven't had a Brito in two weeks Dude Taco Bell is still great Like you're

You're fucking excited Dude yeah They had a Taco Bell I think it was Barcelona I think it was Barcelona And I remember seen it being like

Holy shit Let's go. Like, yeah, it's, it's on. You get really fucking horned up, dude. Dude, there's no Taco Bells out there. It's crazy. Yeah, it's exciting. Why, I wonder why it's taken so long for this culture to get out there.

I don't know. I don't know, because there's more KFCs in Europe, I think, than anywhere else in the planet. It's like they're digging some of our stuff, but. It's like they like West Coast hardcore. I mean, so obviously, they are getting some out there. They're getting some, but. Yeah, the tequila situation, the massaciv food situation, it's not great out there, dude It's gonna be rough. We're gonna have to bring our own stuff on this tour

You and me got a team up dude, I'm gonna bring a can of beans I mean bring more than one that's not gonna last you very long A can of beans dude just a single can yep all right Maybe I'll ship out some some cheese dude, oh dude a little case of fresco Dude, I'll be sick yeah, be fucking nuts dude Midnight, just drunk was fucking it was a can of beans and something Really good. This is gonna, you're not gonna,

you're not gonna believe me when I say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. Okay. And I stand by this. Mm-hmm. I make the best Suavos Rancheros on the planet. I don't doubt it. You should doubt it.

It's not, I shouldn't make the best way of us rancheros on the planet, but I do. I stand by it. Very confident about it. Yeah? Okay. Yeah, dude. It's my favorite thing to make in the whole world.

Well, you're gonna make it out in Germany. I'm sorry. I mean, I wish I could, dude. I don't think they have the, I don't have the ingredients. dude. You need eggs, chips?

Good, can you, Casasca is what made me think of it because I always triple some of that on there. Well,

this good a fucking, it's good a thing of cheese is put it in the fucking toilet or something. I don't know. I don't know, it's crazy.

I remember going to a liquor store, like a big liquor store in, I want to say it was Esson. It was like before a tour and I was like, all right, I'm going to go to a liquor store.

I'm going to buy my own Mezcal. You know, own tequila, whatever I can find. I'm gonna buy a couple bottles of good stuff. Bring it with me. I'll be set, you know? That way I don't get the fucking red hat tequila, you know? Oh, fuck, it's already, I already see it happening, dude. They didn't have shit. I went to like a big, whatever, I don't know what the name of it is, obviously. It was like a big liquor store in Essen. Nothing. Nothing. They had Casamigos. That's it. Hmm. That was their whole, their whole

Tequila and their whole agave selection was Casamigos Tequila And Casamigos Mescal, that was it We're just going to get fat, whatever This is You're gonna have to bring your own shit, dude What's the name of your bass player?

Ricky. He was raging When I saw him and say, Are we gonna party? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool. He drinks a lot, yeah Yeah, I know this is sick Yeah, yeah, yeah

And then Ken are going to get along too well Who? Him and our bass player, Dan Are gonna get along a little bit too well Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's dangerous combo. Well, bass players, you don't have any responsibilities. Well, I was just talking to our guitar player,

Wally, he also does all the TMing on the tour. And we are redoing our writer today. And he put in big red letters, like giant red capital letters on the writer, only give the alcohol to the TM. Oh, no. We have to control it ourselves. Yeah.

That's where we are now. That's where we are now Yeah You gotta ask for a shot You know and we'll pour it Yeah Yeah It's a

That's where you're at Controlled environment That's where you're at right now Dude it is what it is It's funny because we hide our liquor Because we don't like when the We like sharing But when you give

Humans an inch They start just pouring shots when we're fucking playing, playing the fucking show. God forbid you got a few people on the guest list. They're backstage. All of a sudden,

your bottles are gone. Well, I mean, that's where we get more alcohol on our writer is to, because when those guests, you kind of, you kind of, you give them the beers

and here's, take, takes many of a shot that you want to shot for your girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. Or here's your cousin. Yeah, exactly. You know, that's going to have

two more, too many beers. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, you got to be a good host. That's true. I do need to find a way to bring my,

shit for us. That would be nice. Me ice. I mean, good luck finding ice in Europe. Is there, is there limes out there? Can find ice outside, but not in any restaurant. It's going to be freezing in February. It's going to be horrible, dude. I got, I got a coat ready. I got, I got, I got my coat.

It's me sick. You've already packed your coat. This is true, this is a very Orange County conversation. It is. Tours in a month and we're like, we already got our coats ready. You got the fucking coats are ready, dude. I am, I am, I am, I am, I'm coat up. I need to... Yeah. I don't think I have

like a real like winter jacket. You need this one. I mean, yeah, but... Yeah. You don't need it. You got the muscles. You got the West Coast. One, two, and three muscles, too.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And as we said before, I could guarantee you, Rob might take off his shirt in respect to the life of video. Yes. Just out of respect.

60% at the time, it works every time. Yep. You know? Yep. There's 100% chance that every night somebody will tell me that I was, I was bigger in the life of video than I am now. You kind of appreciate the honesty, though. Dude, it's crazy.

It's like, yeah, man. Yeah. Yes, I was 22 once. And didn't have a job other than playing music. So, yeah, I spent all day at the gym. So they say you look bigger. Yeah. But you're smaller, which is good.

Because usually it's the opposite, right? It's your, you got, it means... I think I'm actually bigger now, which is the funniest part about that. Oh. So you're getting fatter. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, probably.

That's, yeah, that's probably what it is, yeah. Damn. Yeah. It's tough, dude. Can't have it all, man. I know. Can't have it all. I always have a joke with my girlfriend.

I mean, my dreams of having six. The moment you get into a relationship, it makes it pretty much impossible. Yeah, yeah. Your dream of a six-pack will be a far distant memory that you never, ever get back to. But you got this, you got this gorgeous long hair, dude. And there's no gray's. What's the deal? You dye in your shit or what? No, I'm getting, I'm getting grays, strands.

How old are you? 38. So I got a few. See, I'm 37. Look at my shit. It's crazy. You're 38, you got no, but you're Mexican. That's different.

I do have good genes. I'm very lucky. I'm very, very lucky. Family seems to keep their hair. I kept my stress relatively low. And that comes from not giving me to fuck. I should try that. It's weird.

It's a weird, like, balance that you want to, it's a balance of caring a lot where you have to, but also at the complete opposite side. I don't give a fuck by any of this. Yeah, yeah. It's like a weird. And there's also things in the middle you can't control, like, responsibilities, how are you to pay rent

where's the next date you know, so there's like normal stuff that gives you the gray hairs but yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like no one to give a fuck and no one not to give a fuck. I got way too many gray. I was looking at my, yeah, it's crazy dude. Way too many gray hairs. You look good.

No, dude, it's, I look, somebody thought, I, I can't remember where I was the other day. I literally don't even know where this was, but um, somebody was like, people were being obnoxious, guessing people's ages. Sure. Somebody guessed that I was like fucking 42 or something.

I was like, what? Nice. What the fuck? Not that anything wrong with being 42, but it's like, God damn, come on. 37, easy. You know? Easy, buddy. Not 42.

You look good, man. I don't know. You look fine. What's the, what do you got written down in your diary there? You got a lot of notes, dude. We covered everything. Actually, this particular notebook, it's pretty cool. Like, you were the first three, three pages of this one.

Holy shit. And now we're at the end of this one. It's kind of cool. It's kind of close this one off. Wild. It's wild, man. Wild. My lady asked me, what was my favorite memory of the year?

And I didn't have one. I couldn't remember anything. So I'm... That's a hard question. It is. Favorite memory of 23. Yeah.

Do you have one? Favorite memory of 23. It's hard. It's hard when you started thinking about it. It's really hard. It took me like four days to come up with an answer. So you don't be going to feel bad.

Yeah, dude, that's a rough one. So you think about it, you put in so much information to your fucking brain for a year. So much information. You know, and this fucking. thing was it was a new somebody or another singer in the band every week and it's this constant research

it's like so much research is this information and then when my girlfriend asked me what's your favorite memory of us the past year I was like my brain was like huh? Oh your favorite memory of us like yeah that's even harder I felt as it was even harder good luck dude yeah it hit me it took me for it's obviously a trap

yeah it's obviously fucking trap Yeah. There is not right answer. No. But it took me three to four days to come up with a memory. You could have just said like right now. Every day is better than the last with you. Yeah, but I was fucking tired.

I'm not gonna rattle off something, man. Yeah. I'm good about- Putting yourself in jail there. 90% of time I'll fucking have a good answer. Boom, I'm like, God, killed it right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you can kill it.

You're like, yeah, I was on it. Yeah, yeah. But sometimes it's just, uh, your gray hair is talking. Yep. you know I hear you And it was something simple too It was like we had a

We had dinner here It was like we was like a nice downtown meal It was like that was really nice That was my favorite memory It's always like it's always like the small things That tend to be my favorite memories It's so small like it was a nice dinner Downtown Santa Ana is popping dude

Is it? I feel like it is yeah There's always a lot of stuff going on Yeah it's three blocks down three four blocks down They're trying to like expand the downtown is pretty pretty sick yeah

well rob do you have any uh closing thoughts did i did i miss anything no dude i'm stoked we're we're going on tour together it's crazy like i it's cool yeah man i feel

uh i've a lot of things like just but mainly just grateful dude it's it's crazy i can't believe i get to tour with obviously suicide silence cuba con pale face like how lucky you know it's it's an awesome lineup and um

yeah we're lucky that we could make it work and we got to build that and I think the shows are going to be nuts dude so I'm amped it's gonna be a great tour man yeah all it took was a phone call dude it's crazy yeah it's crazy well see more crazy is that it's even more rare to call somebody you had to go to like a middle person to another middle person well I felt like I thought about it but I was like okay this is like too crazy of an ask I got a call like I didn't want to send a text out into outer space about it. Sure. Or like have someone's manager hit up somebody else's manager and like, you know what I mean?

It's like, dude. It was kind of a rare occasion. Totally. It was just call his person. And, uh, it's like, we gotta do old school. This is my guy. Let me just call him up and see if. That is kind of a rare.

I didn't even think about that until right now. It's kind of weird. I don't remember the last time I did a tour where like somebody called me. I was like, hey, do you want a tour? You know what I mean? Yeah. I truly. It's sad.

It's kind of sad. But. It is. sad. It's very weird. Yeah. But like, isn't that funny to think about? Like, I, it, I, I actually do not remember.

Yeah. Or, or the, the old classic, we want to worry you so fucking bad. We, we, we got to do it, and then you send the fuck. Dude. The worst. Like, the most. It's almost every time. Every time. Like,

you see somebody at a festival, we don't even know. We're like, oh, bro, we got a tour together. Oh, yeah, we got to make it happen. That'd be so sick. And then it's like, yeah, see in 10 years. Yeah, see in 10 years. You know what I mean? And it's like it literally never happens It never happens

But I'm glad it happened with us I appreciate the phone call Dude I think more people need to call each other You know I agree It's awesome Look at what tours can come out of it Crazy

It's crazy dude Yeah And if you're watching You're listening The dates are on the screen As we speak And I'll roll up Yes sir

Appreciate you man Thank you very much dude I appreciate you man Thank you All right everyone That's it Later. Peace.