Garza Podcast - 129 - VOID OF VISION | Jack Bergin

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with Jack Bergin. Vocalist of Australian metalcore band VOID OF VISION. https://www.voidofvision.squarespace.com SPONSORS: https://distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! https://emgpickups.com USE CODE: HEAVY AT CHECKOUT FOR 15% OFF! CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Adidas Purple Tracksuit 02:26 - ERRA Tour 06:05 - Finding Members That Have the Same Creative Vision 11:57 - “Empty” & Being Honest 14:18 - Dealing w/ Brain AVM & Health Issues 19:38 - When Jack Found Out 24:50 - Being Grateful for Things We Take For Granted 26:43 - 90’s Culture vs Now 29:27 - Having a Valuable Support System During Difficult Times 32:09 - Jack Being a Fan of Suicide Silence in High School 33:23 - Having a Small Circle of Trusted Friends 34:57 - Seeing Crises Around the World on Social Media 38:38 - Difficulty of Creating Band Logos 40:12 - Getting Alopecia 44:10 - Being Open-Minded 47:05 - Telling the Story of Void of Vision 49:37 - Being Aware of Chaotic & Violent State of the World 57:50 - How Jack Deals w/ Pressure, Staying Focused 1:01:49 - Thoughts on Higher Power, Being Present in Life 1:05:59 - Jack’s Inspiration for Lyrics, Meditation 1:10:14 - Dealing w/ Relationships 1:14:05 - Connecting w/ People Through Music and Podcasts 1:16:39 - ERRA, Make Them Suffer & Novelists Tour 1:17:49 - Writing Music in a Beach House, Ross Robinson, Malibu

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with Shopify. Empecia to start your period of month in Shopify. coms bar records. This brain, ABM. When were you aware of it?

It was definitely like mid to late 20s thing. I started like blacking out randomly. So that was the first instance. I was probably 25 then. And so I fell asleep at the wheel like just before COVID. Like just completely blacked out. I ran to the back of someone. And that was where I started getting concerned.

I was going to doctors and they're just like, oh, it's narcolepsy. That's what doctors told you? Makes me wonder if I never had that happen. What would have gone on? I've been, I've been talking. If I see that purple track suit, I will spend. a lot of money on eBay. It's, dude, I imagine there's floating

around surely now, right? I want that purple track suit, Jack. That's the one. That's the one. And you know what I'm talking about, dude. You know about new metal. Absor fucking looting, dude. Look at that shit.

It's fucking classic. Is there a track suit in the second drop? No. I looked. I think their second drop is this shoes, which shoes are great. Shoes, uh, socks. Am I missing anything? Shoes socks, uh, a shirt.

Yeah. A hat too? Is this a? Yes. If you have your own campuses? Dude, that would be fucking mad. No, I didn't get the. Dude, if you have your own campus, corn campuses, dude, you made it. That's the fucking go.

Campuses have been my jam. They're so, like, in Australia, all the just major retail, like, shoe stores, they're all back, like, not. the corn collab ones, but just in general campus is like huge at the moment. It's so weird. Yeah. Show toes too. I love like the...

Oh, shoes, come on. Come on, do we... It's getting bigger again. It's great. The Etnese are coming back. You got like... I don't know, we walked into whatever store and we're like in PA at the start and King of Prussia and all the stores.

It's just the fat of the shoes. Like it's all at the front of the store. It's coming back. It's sick. Yeah, you're right. The fat shoes is coming back. Yeah, bigger pants, bigger shoes. It's all fucking...

Next time you see me, actually tonight when you see me at the show, I might just have baggy ass pants. Yes, please. I'm not going to wait a day in time. When I'm not waiting in time. You always say you're going to do something tomorrow, but. That's 100%. You always say start today. That's the ethos.

Yeah. Baggy pants today. Baggy pants today. That's it. Minimum. Minimum. I love it. Jack from Voidivision.

Yes. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it, man. Yeah. How you feeling? Feeling good. Yeah.

This is. Halfway through the Aro Tour. Yeah. just about to take it and yeah this is it's great honestly it's been the best so far like we've just been loving it yeah it feels really good this time yeah nice yeah how many times have uh has the bamp been oh my god i love how fucking photo how many times have uh the ban bin in estates this is our third time yeah third time so just after covid in 22 with august burns red it was our first one and i was like c and d market stuff like really weird places but i loved starting it like that because

we got to see all the weird and wacky before we hit a market There was like two A market dates on the tour. There was like SAC, like A-Spaids and, God, I don't even know where the other one was. I can't even remember any, like, A-market spots off the top of my head. We didn't do, like, New York or anything. It was like Long Island we went down to. And like... Let's go.

Yeah, it was sick. It was nice seeing those parts. And then we did Invent Animate last year. And that was just, like, their first big headliner. And, yeah, it was cool seeing the air markets like that for the first time. And now we're just like, yeah, back on an A-market run this one. So it's nice. Just leveling up the venues.

and nice yeah it's cool seeing seeing it unfold now like of course when you come from another country is like starting again like we did this in Australia for fucking 10 years and now we're just starting over here doing it and it's cool it's like brings you back down to earth and reminds you why you do what you do and like how you do what you do and just like helps kind of reframe everything and yeah it kind of brings back like the passion I think it's cool really yeah 100% man it's like drive again like you want to like because I mean like like We're not massive in Australia or anything, but we do well for ourselves, and we worked hard for that.

And now we realize you have to work hard to get that elsewhere. Like, it's not going to come for free, and you just have to keep trucking. That's cool. It's awesome, man. Yeah. Okay, whose idea was it to do the three EPs as us? With the record label, too, yeah. We've got a very good A&R at the record label who jumped in after COVID, and we just, like, talk so many ideas.

is like he's an absolute legend. He's named Leander. He's also a massive new metal fan and we share very similar brain workings. It works. Yeah, it works. And yeah, we just cooked up a bunch of cool ideas and put it all out into the world.

It was nice. It's like, what didn't you do? Yeah, I know. Did a bit of everything. We did the heavy. We did the kind of anthemic. We did the ADM. It just, yeah, tried to put it all together.

And, yeah, it works. We just made sure we were doing everything that we loved and everything that we wanted to do. So, yeah, it was cool. With that, with that going into something like that, are you not, like, concerned or thinking about any kind of reaction?

I would have used to have been, probably. Used to. Yeah, I think after COVID, everything kind of reframed, and I think everyone realized, like, if you're not doing what you love, then it's, there's no point in, like, trucking along. And that's, yeah, that's kind of how we've, that's kind of how we came out the other side,

and especially myself, too. I didn't want to kind of waste around any more time and not leaving this in the future like if Voidivision was to break up tomorrow I don't want it to end and by wishing I did something like I want to be able to like you just said before like just do it tomorrow like you say they don't want to wait

but there's no point like you just got to go for it true and then you then you were able to carry three other band members to co-sign on that yeah 100% it's so hard to get like a because that's a pretty crazy off the wall idea is it's so typical to get other humans on the same page. Yeah, you know.

100%. And that idea you had, or the band had, that's a pretty wacky. 100%. I got to thank them a lot too. And everyone's like, yeah, sure, just do it. Anyone say, what's going to happen? That's the thing. No one, like, ever said anything.

And I thank them so much for letting me do all these crazy fucking wild, like, imagery ideas and, like, take it above and beyond, like, what we could be and I don't know like they're very they're just like so stoked on it all and like they're very supportive of like the art that we all create together and yeah it's it's it's awesome to have those people I mean it's been the same band for 10 I think I'm sorry 11 years now so it's been the same people since the get go I was going to ask you that how did you do that I have no idea man you see so many bands these days that have just had lineup changes and member changes and we had a band member leave in 2018 or 17

like our bassist and we were thinking like oh we could bring someone else into the fold but at that time we were like oh no we're fucking cool to do this we were just starting international touring and we're like this is kind of cheaper if we're just running the four piece and we just kept running it like that for ages and then by the time and we thought about it again it was just like we don't need another person in the fold like we're all really comfortable with each other we know what we're doing like I don't know it just felt really locked in and we didn't want to kind of interview with that and are you like are you like communicating Are you hanging out?

Like, what's like, how do you? I don't know. Yeah, we all, like, we've all lived in Melbourne for our whole lives. Like, we're all pretty close by, probably, like, within half an hour and hour of each other. So going, yeah, like, going to the billboard. Yeah, dude, that's it. Like, we all go out to, we've always been, like, friends. Like, that's the thing, like, since we've met and I'll run over to Jameses, we'll ride.

Like, we'll just go to Georgia's and we'll plan out, like, just how we're going to tackle these tours and just, yeah, I don't know. There's lots there. Like, we do everything together. It's fucking awesome. Yeah. It's really special bond. Yeah. And that's the thing too, because I see a lot of bands too, and they're not, I wonder how they do operate in that sense when they're not close.

Like, it's... I don't know. I don't get it. It's a bizarre world, man. It's so terrible. It's so careful. It's such a... Because art is so personal and so close, and to be kind of...

Surely that limits, like, the potential of it if you're not comfortable in that scenario with the people you're working on it with. I don't know. Unless you're, like, fully entrust them and you just clicked in together, it's got to be tricky. Yeah. You sounds like you trust you, Tyler. Like you really trust. Yeah, absolutely. Especially when you're talking,

any people, people change when you're talking about artistic choices. Yeah. People change. I've seen like, you know, sometimes I wonder like if there's like people talented at home, like way more talented, they're probably, I mean, us, you know?

But why didn't they get out? And then you kind of see them collab with somebody else. Yeah. Like, oh. For sure. Oh, shit. And that's the thing too. Like, collaborating is the most important part of it.

Like, when you're in. this sense of course because that's all you do really and that's the strength when you everyone is in it like combining together because the other thing a lot of the time is just like one guy or like two guys kind of riding it all and like just it strengthens the more collaborative like if you are in sync and you can't have everyone working in it together that's obviously going to be the strongest result but that is tricky within itself to have four like-minded people kind of clicking like that but yeah that's just that's just the universe and just just just just working.

Absolutely. I think once the universe saw that fucking picture in the middle, I think, I think the universe was like, these guys are committed. Yeah, dude, 100%. This band's serious. That's my favorite. I'm going to do anything I can do to help. It's so fucking classic.

Yeah, we were, yeah, that was a very, I think that was at the end of like a big, I was just like a UK run. It was like fucking 20 UK dates just back to back to back to back. It was a slog. It was fun. I haven't done the UK in that extent before but that was right at the end we're all just zonked like tight as fucking

20 shows in England yeah it was how do you do that? Crazy dude it was with their friends holding absence and it was their kind of B market run and we started at the bottom and we did all these places like Colchester and fucking Lincoln and just these bizarre places that bands hadn't played in fucking so long

like some we were looking at like the history of some of them and Australian bands had never even fucking been there before. Like, it's just so interesting to see it in that context. It was called like, I think it was like holding absence live in monochrome tour. We did like, we brought them over to Australia for this run, just the main headliner of one of the EPs. And then, yeah, they kind of returned the favour. And it was awesome. I love those tours because I feel like they really don't happen anymore. Like, it's hard to do that here. Like, I feel like the only reason we could do it here was because a band like August Burns read with that following,

like cold following could have like that work for them. And it's hard for newer bands to extend to that market now. That's a big commitment. Yeah, it's one of these ones. Oh, fuck that. Yeah, it's crazy. We got to do like our first UK headliners behind that too, so that was really exciting.

And yeah. How old are I? I'm 30. Just in 30. Okay. Because my 38-year-old I see that and I, little bit of a little bit of anxiety. Man, yeah, that's it.

I mean, I started creeping in. Like, I know, like, with age and health, I'm starting to feel like, oh, geez, like, I can see a slog ahead of me now when I see it. And, yeah. This is what you sign out for. Yeah, 100%. But that's the thing, like, I remember, okay, I've been working for 10 years for this. I'm not going to say no now.

Like, I'm not going to be like, ah, not too much. It's just going to get, like, yeah, you're still going to have to put work in always if you want to keep doing this. True. Congrats on your song, Empty. Thank you. It's sick. I'm stoked. I'm super stoked to have that one out. I feel like it's a, yeah, it's a bringing it back down to Earth moment and just, yeah, kind of like bringing it back to roots and...

What do you mean by that? So, like, this whole EP series was sort of post-COVID. It was void of vision kind of putting everything, every world that we could be out there. So each EP kind of represented each term of itself. And then we put out Angel of Darkness, which was like the most grandiose version of ourselves. as you see from that photo, like, it's kind of like, all right, this is like the most grand, like most absurd version of void of vision that we could be. Like, we wanted to showcase every form and thing we could do and make sure everyone knows that we're not a one-trick pony. And then, yeah, as soon as this comes out, like, this is kind of the introduction of a new

phase for us, like beginning with this. That's kind of stripping back to a more honest and, like, raw version of it. And it's obviously, like, Angel of Darkness is very inflated. You see like the makeup and the crazy outfits and everything. Yeah, it's fucking awesome. And that's still a thing like we love and enjoy. But I don't know. It's nice to, I think what's coming next is like the most honest.

Like I couldn't kind of do what we're doing next. Like we've been writing this record and it is largely a very honest and like fucking difficult record to like think about. It's just all about like my health over the past few years. And I couldn't necessarily. necessarily like communicate that through this imagery in a sense like as much as like this is still our fucking shit and our fucking jam like I did need to like bring it back down image wise just to kind of I don't know display more honest and kind of down-to-earth version of ourselves

because it's all like yeah it was it was a big deal for me because like a lot of it is just about just yeah like I'll get into it like when we start talking about stuff but there's just a lot of a lot of things that I need to be really honest about like it's a different version of myself to what it was like a couple of years ago like I've just had a lot of changes in my life for the better like I've just shifted and yeah it was it was necessary to kind of bring it to this level to kind of I don't know put it out there yeah what kind of changes did you need to make so like when all this basically I've had a lot of health issues I've basically since 22 I've been working against this thing in my brain. It's called an AVM. It's like an atrovenous

malformation. It's basically a tangle of like blood vessels that kind of has like gotten a bit too much and constricted with age. And as I grow, that grows. And basically starting literally just before this tour, I've had to start radio surgery. So I went in pretty much a month ago to begin all that and started radiotherapy for treating that and being able to get rid of that. Because It's just one of those things that basically it was giving me like lots of seizures and I was having just a lot of blood pressure issues and yeah, there was moments where it was like fucking, I'd be waking up. It was like nocturnal seizures and I'd be waking up in an ambulance and being taken to hospital.

And yeah, it was becoming a problem where it was going to start impacting how way I live, the way I tour and I think it was impacting the way I tour because that was probably not helping it with the amount of fucking, like, you know, the energy that we put out on stage. Like, it's not necessarily a walk in the park and something you're able to kind of bring down, especially with, like, you don't want to, like, dial that back. You still want to be passionate. And, yeah, it's hard to, like, draw the line of, like, I don't know, keeping it real and honest and not going fully added.

So I wanted to make sure that that was all being tackled, I guess, at a younger age. What's it called again? It's called an AVM, for short. ABM? Yeah, AVM, brain AVM. And it's, yeah, basically, it's very, very, like, rare. It's basically a fucking, a giant clot. And basically it ruptured early last year.

We just did the Notfest run, and I got back and just, yeah, basically woke up with a brain bleed. And it was kind of a work on it as soon as possible sort of thing. So they pretty much sent me off to hospital. and went inside there and kind of like coiled it up and kind of restructured the way that the blood flows so that I could kind of give myself time before I went for radiotherapy and yeah

what's that like man it's pretty fucking crazy to be honest like the brain operations themselves are fucking insane because you wake up and there's a lot of feelings you've never fucking felt before like I'm pretty sure that was if anything the closest that I could feel to fucking dementia like I woke up and I'm I'm just sitting there, like, talking to someone, and then it'll just be, like, a wash over you, and you're just, like, where the fuck am I?

Who am I talking to? Like, I understand who I am, and, like, I'm still myself, but I'm just, like, where the fuck am I? How did I get here? And you're just slowly putting it back together, and you're, like, mid-conversation with someone, and you're just trying to fucking think of, like, what the fuck? Like, where do I pick this up? And then I just have to be like, I'm so sorry.

Like, I have no idea what the fuck's going on. Bring surgery. It's fucking wild, man. So it's been a very rough year and a bit of just working on that, I guess. How do you deal with that, how do you do with that, like, emotionally? Emotionally surprisingly fine because it kind of put everything else in perspective for me. Like, I think, I don't know, there's definitely two ways I could have taken it. And there are, it does come in waves.

Like, I'll have periods of just moments of just fucking, like, I'm down and out. like the start of this year particularly, I was particularly down and out. Like, it was just really struggling. Like, we finished a Europe run. We had like three months off. We'd done the record. We did like a fucking whole, we did the whole world.

We basically did Australia, US, Europe. Well, our whole touring world at least. With that condition? Yeah. So it was pretty wild. I, um, finally enough, the whole idea behind Angel of Darkness was to kind of ramp everything down. We, um,

the whole idea was just, I was possessed by this, this angel of darkness and I wouldn't talk on stage. I'd just have like a voiceover doing all the speaking for me. Oh, that's it. Yeah, it was fun, dude. It's, it's interesting doing it in this, like, aspect too,

because we're not a massive band and, like, stuff like that translates fucking differently, of course, but, like, it's still fun to, like, artistically do that kind of thing. And I don't know, it was fun thinking of that aspect. And, like, I'd have the guys help out, and I'd be just, yeah, taking care of myself and not going as much in as I would. and yeah, that's the thing. Like, I haven't been drinking or smoking or doing drugs since the very first instances

of this fucking health condition. So that's helped as well. Like, just, I think just taking care of my health in general has been a blessing because it's just, I realized how much I was taking that for granted, especially touring because it's all in front of us the whole time. Like, it's served on a gold platter to you in green rooms. It's fucking, it's just a thing you do. Like, it's kind of as you're growing up, you see your idols,

you tour with like your favorite musicians. and you're watching them all and you kind of just... Yeah. Part take or just chill. Absolutely. You're not even going crazy. You're not even going crazy. That's it.

You just want to partake and hang out. That's how I started. And yeah, I think, honestly, I do think, like, a lot of that stuff did probably contribute to blood pressure and all that sort of thing getting worse. So this brain, ABM, when were you aware of it? Is this something that popped up in your 20s? How did this start? It was definitely like a late, a mid-year-old.

to late 20s things, especially during COVID. Like I was, I started like blacking out randomly. So that was the first instance. And like I had no idea what that was. So I was probably 25 then. And so that was the first instance of it. Like I was just out blacked out. I didn't think much of it. Like I didn't hit my head in like anyway. So I didn't have to go to hospital for a concussion check or anything. But that was where I found out. Like after instances of blacking out, I actually, I fell asleep at the wheel like just before COVID. Like just completely blacked out. I ran to the back of someone, and that was where I started getting concerned because I was going to doctors and they're just like, oh, it's anacalypsy. Like, you're just extremely tired, stressed, et cetera.

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And it's really frustrating because I've been going to GPs or just trying to find a good GP for so fucking long. And then, I don't know, it's just the same thing that kind of just refer you to other things. And until I had a fucking scan when I passed out on a New Year's Eve and cut my head open and I went into hospital, that was when they had the CAT scan, had the MRI and like, okay, we found this going on.

And so we need to take care of this. Because I've never had like a fucking, it's not very often that someone goes in and gets their brain scanned, right? No. So it's weird to just kind of sit out on and wait and it makes me wonder if I never had that happen. Like, yeah, what would have gone on? Because I would have just woken up with a brain bleed one day and everyone would have,

it would have been a bit too late to know what to do next. Because when I had the brain bleed, they knew there was an AVM there and they knew that they needed to fix it up straight away and just like control the damage before. it got worse. Yeah. I mean, that's life threat. Well, that's it, dude. Like, if I, yeah, it's pretty fucked up to think that, like, if it was any longer,

I could have just died. Like, because your brain's fucking bleeding. Like, if I'm just going to be sitting there with no idea what's going on, not knowing to go to hospital, it was just like a fucking fire headache. Like, it just felt insane. Like, I couldn't, like, pinpoint what it was. I just knew I needed to go to hospital. But I wouldn't have known what the fuck that was if I didn't know I had a brain,

like an ABM going on in there. So what it, uh, what causes this? Dude, it's literally from birth. It's just like, it's just something that you're unlucky to be born with. And is it birth? It grows, it just grows over time. Like, as I grow is like, as a human being, so does that. And so I was asking like, is someone else probably might have this.

Yeah. Might have this rare thing. I wonder like, okay, so you were born with it, but someone else is, can it be like, for sure. It just comes up or? Well, that's the thing. Like, people don't even know until a certain age. Like, I guess it could come up.

But, yeah, it's literally a luck of the draw thing. Like, all the neurosurgeons are like, yeah, it's just. Unluck of the draw? Yeah, precisely. Unluck of the drawer is what it is. But yeah, it's fucking, it's pretty fucked. Like, it's frustrating. It was frustrating at first, but, like, yeah, it's pretty insane how much it changed every way I look at life and everything I do.

like literally how we started talking at the start of this podcast like just the very first thing that you fucking said when I walked in like about just not waiting until tomorrow like that's that's my fucking ethos now that's how I run everything about your band saw you into make make sense yeah I'm putting together this like yeah puzzle piece because uh well you jack to be honest I didn't know I didn't hear about your band until uh I got hit up yeah for sure like by uh by Heather. So I judge a band. I'll put it on.

And of course, the first one on Spotify is empty. Yep. And the first thing I heard was your vocal. Yeah. I was okay. I'm in. Fuck yeah.

Then you go back and you did research on a quick. Now, let me really listen to it. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, man, what's,

what's from a Jack? A lot's going on. Yeah, like, damn. And it makes sense. Yeah. It's a lot of that. And that's what,

that's everything that this is about to be. I think the deep dive into that world. Like Chronicles was definitely like just, I don't know, a kind of a COVID retrospective, just everything in my brain during then, just, I don't know, everything I was feeling, every way I was feeling just through relationships, through living. But yeah, what's up next is kind of just much more in depth look at into that personal side, which it's literally like the most, I don't know, it makes everything else seem fucking not real, like that we've had so far and I know that's not true but like it just how how much we put into it just makes it

feel so much more special yeah I'm very excited to start rolling everything out to imagine you going deeper than you already have yeah last now it's just I was here and I was driving home it was like it was like 10 p.m. go go home and go straight to bed I was just cranking I love you I love listening to music in your car it's nice it's good crank it it's the best way to fucking listen to music. I don't know if that's for you get like a mixes back for the first time if you like jumped like you have to go in the car. You have to feel it.

Yeah. It's like the comments like how people are going to listen to it. I hate a world thinking people won't be jamming music in their car. That's how I want to be, that's how I want people to hear some of our songs for the first time. Yeah, I was like hearing your voice. I'm like, shit. Like yeah, you're pretty, your range is pretty, it's pretty nuts.

Thank you, man. Like like like the singing. stuff and then like her scream like he's singing from someplace else that's a really new one too now I'm aware yeah that's it yeah and it's funny that I started I guess giving all that stuff kind of a go as I was going through all this

because again it's I thought of like I may as well fucking try it now or I'm never going to you know like yeah I'm not going to get to my personal life but Jack I really needed to talk you today it's cool absolutely it's cool man it's fucking awesome yeah some people just don't yeah some people just don't

yeah we just don't know what it's like for everything to be gone yeah or or like a potential yes so like all this all this shit that that we know it's like it could just go away 100% and you you actually lived it yeah it's it's very interesting dude and like when you find those people and can have those conversations it just really means a lot because it's just yeah it feels very real and I think all I want to be from fucking here on out is real like that's that's that's That's the hell it's going to be. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, out there seeing you, and seeing pictures, I'm like, this guy's real. Thank you, man. And he also loves late 90's culture. Yes.

Absolutely. And I'm so fucking bummed because I'm a 94 baby, so I didn't get to live it necessarily. I got to be very fucking small stages of it and I guess maybe remember a fucking slight tinge of it,

but like, I don't know, coming to love it at a later stage of life is even more special. Because I didn't get to see all like, I didn't just see corn pop up I don't know I didn't get to see them

get on like TV and like be a big thing in like the charts and oh yeah you were like five dude yeah I would have been like infantile like it's it's frustrating

because you were four a potty's jamming corn it's it's okay we can pretend but yeah I love being able to come into it at a later stage of life and appreciate it now because obviously the culture is just

fucking shifted insanely like there's world where that could be real now unfortunately but that makes me want to strive for one you know and that's like thinking that there's still a world out there that can and you see it like there's still these awesome crossover moments like you see knock loose at the moment and like when they play Coachella and stuff and just those little moments in history now that you see and you're like fuck there's still like little instances hanging around where you can have a heavy band just fucking rock the mainstream and like get the attention that like it's fucking begging for it's fucking begging for

It's so jarring and fucking, like, in your fucking face, it just needs to be heard almost. And I like that when it gets that exposure. Yeah. Yeah. I think people are craving, like, just real shit right now. Now more than ever. A hundred percent. Because it's-

We're craving it. It's getting more polished. It's getting a bit too perfect. And it's, like, definitely needs to, like, dial back. And, like, I know if, like, a lot of our stuff is definitely, like, considered in that perfect world. Like, we do, like, a lot of post-production. Like there's a lot of electronics being thrown in there. But yeah, like, there's still like an element left where like, I don't know, the first time, like, when that fucking corn record and fucking self-title came out, like, it was disgusting.

It was fucking raw and just dirty. And that's what caught attention. Yeah. And the same thing with like Slipknot, like that first record. Like, it's all this fucking, I don't know, it's like that Robinson World, all those bands that kind of just put out this really dirty fucking disgusting, raw, like crazy shit. And, yeah, there's bands out there, like, on Myrta, like, from here. I think that are really cool fucking ideals there. Like, it's just so fucking disgusting in your face.

And it's cool seeing a band like that pop around and just be in your face again. It's nice. Yeah. And now you're fucking doing it. Yeah. I want to, I want to strive for that. It's crazy. 100%, yeah.

That kind of explains, like, the support of your band, too. I'm kind of piecing the puzzle. Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Because what, because they don't have the option to be like jaded, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Someone's in her band almost died. That's a fucking thing. Like, I think they do. And it's fucking, I cannot thank them enough. Like, even this tour, like, we're like taking it,

like, we're still traveling, like, as cheap as we can, but we're trying to take it as easy as we can for, like, our health and our, like, mental health and everything too.

Totally. They're looking out for me, and I really appreciate it. It's, it's nice just being with your friends on this type of joint because, Yeah, you could be, like I was talking about the start,

you could be with a bunch of random session musicians or so, and it just wouldn't feel the same. And I think being in my boat, too, it's nice having that nurture around me. How do they react when they found out your getting brain surgery? Do I send, like, a selfie from the hospital family? That was like the first time, but ever every time... Yeah, every time passed there, when it started getting more serious and dialed down,

I'd be like, hey, guys, I'm just in the hospital, like, just letting you know, like, It would be like a day after or something, but then, yeah, then obviously be more than willing to come in. Like, everyone, like, even like Kate from the record label too, like, she's, she was like offering to, like, send over treats and just, like, anything I needed. And, yeah, it was really sweet. Like, I've got a great network around me at the moment and it's really lovely. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got a good support system.

Yeah. And it's needed, man. Like, it's, you really take that sort of stuff for granted. Like, I've had it, I've had it before, but I never really, like, for. fucking appreciated as much as I did, to be honest. Like, I feel like I talk a lot for granted like that, especially relationships. Like, like doing what we do, we know so many fucking people. And it's very blurry what means what and who's there and who's where.

Yeah. And you really, you really come to notice it. And you really value when those people, like, come out of the woodwork there. And you're like, I really, like, didn't expect that. And like, I fucking really appreciate this person so much more now. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, when shit gets real. a lot of people scatter you know sure it's it's hard man like it's some people like it is a lot and I think it could be like through their personal lives too they could just be going through something themselves that we don't even fucking know as well and

but you're right like it is tricky like they're just kind of just dispersed a little bit yeah especially in this scene in this uh oh my goodness big time when we were like when we put out that record that that was a stinker man people people disappeared what was it called man

that was a 20 what year was this? I think it was 2017 so subtitled yeah the self-titled one I can barely remember I was I was massively in in high school just um yeah you're just you're in high school I was a big fan in high school of sick as a fucking I remember when yeah I remember the impacts that uh you only live once came out like that was that was quite big for just our like little sector in australia

I don't know what it was. It was very interesting. Like it was, it felt, it felt really fresh and new and just, it did inspire a lot of, like, local bands even to a degree. Like, yeah, it was fucking cool, man. It's so nuts, dude. Yeah, it really is hearing, like, I imagine for you, it still feels fucking bizarre, like hearing that shit, like, on the other side of the world, it still spreads, like, crazy

and just, yeah, really made an impact. Cool, yeah, it's cool. Got a good, got a good foundation. Yeah. 100%, too. Why is where we're still here, it's got a solid foundation. And now it's hard not to be like, I still struggle with it, like not being bitter. Dude, 100%.

Because now we're kind of coming back, like, under the radar as far as, like, being popular. Now, some people are coming back, some, a new circle. Yeah. Are trying to come in your circle. So I'm, I really struggle with balancing, like, you know, who's real, who's not. 100, man. So I can only imagine how you deal with that shit. Like.

It's, it's interesting, dude. like I definitely keep it a bit smaller now, the circle, like, but I like it like that. I don't know. It's cool just focusing on yourself and like putting yourself first for once as well. Like, yeah, I think that's one of the big valuable things I've learned. So. But yeah, like I said, those people like you have those people come back into your life that need to come back into your life at certain points. It's really bizarre at the moment.

I've had a lot of that going on. Really? Just people from my past popping back up and sort of like, it's like I'm like, clearing calmer in a sense and like it's very interesting but it feels great like it's everything's just in the right place and everything's happening the way it should be and yeah

you're Jackie coming across is a very mature human thank you I really appreciate that I need to get on your level this is like man I'm all I'm all just being bitter everywhere well dude that's the thing fuck them fuck them too I was fully like that

usually like even during the creation of like chronicles and stuff I was finding myself get bitter with stuff and in places that it didn't need to be. Fuck, it just felt a lot better to just fucking, I don't know. But it's fucked up because it writes good music. Yeah, I know. It's pretty insane, isn't it? It's just weird, like, balance, dude.

Yeah. Fuck, it's still, man. Yeah. It's like, but, yeah, but I think, I think even more clear, like you get, there's always something to be pissed off about. It's always something. Yeah. Like, the state of the fucking world is a, it's not necessarily great. great at the moment let's fucking be honest it's it's everywhere dude it's not going to get any better like

i think people are always going to be yeah it's a not a great trajectory that we've been witnessing over the past years and i don't know there's so much like all happening at once it's fucking hard to process like what have you been personally seen i've personally been seeing like within just like a grander sense or within just chaos to be honest dude it's fucking it's crazy it's crazy out there to be fucking honest. And it's, it's hard because you just feel so much sorrow and it's just, the world needs empathy at the moment, I think, like more than ever. Like, everyone's so pissed off and angry. And I think there is reason for that. And I just kind of want to see it from a different lens in that sense is I feel it might be a bit easier to see it from empathetic lens to just

like kind of be a bit more stripped back and show a bit more care. Because I don't know, being pissed off all the time can be damaging as well. Like, yeah. How do you do that? How do I do that? Like, show people. I don't know. I just kind of zoom out.

And I try to think about the reality of the situation and how it is affecting a grandoscope. Because, dude, for so long, I was just thinking about myself. Like, I'm going to be totally honest. Oh, sure. I mean, we, we all, humans are naturally selfish, narcissistic. And we, I think as humans, like, I think you're a healthy one. You're, you try to like, how do I stop this?

Yeah. This is crazy. Dude, that's it. It is crazy. And it feels fucking crazy. And I just wanted to learn a bit more about how we work as humans, to be honest. Like, about how the brain can, like, I don't know, how the brain views these kind of things that's going on and, like, how it can handle them. And it's very funny that my brain's so fucked up that I'm trying to, like, make it work.

But, yeah, it's, I don't know. I feel like that's kind of a bit of a connect there, to be honest. Maybe I'm thinking. Like, what do you, man, how do you process, like, you're fucking, like, you're, you're, Like, you almost died and you're getting brain surgery. Then you see, like, stuff happen on, like, social media. Yeah. How do you, like, process that?

I, to be honest, I do try to keep off it, like, especially at the moment. You're like, this means nothing. Like, this means fucking nothing, dude. It's hard, dude. Like, the first, it's interesting you say, like, is, to be honest, like, the first few weeks, like, after, like, say, I'll go under for radio. and I went that week afterwards, and I was just doing it rough, like, just, I don't know, it was fucking tricky. Like, the whole fucking right side of my body was, like, just numb or, like, paralyzed, and I'd have, like, bits where it just wouldn't work. So I'm just sitting there on my fucking ass and then just randomly get these random sides of, like, a droopy fucking face.

Like, it was fucked up, man, but, like, I don't know. At that time, I'm, like, I find it so hard to think about anything else, and it's fucking difficult. But then, I don't know, you come back to and then, I don't know, you start getting, like, pissed off about things again. And then I think I just think back to that. And I just try to fucking dial it back in and just keep putting that into perspective. And that helps me, I think, yeah. Man, none of us have any excuse. See, now you're handling all this.

This is crazy. Yeah, it's interesting to myself, too. I don't know how the fuck I do it because I didn't consider myself like a necessarily strong person before this. or anything. It's, I don't know. You are doing it. I'm here to tell you. Thank you, man. You are a strong person. Thank you, Ray. Something that I wanted to strive to, I'd like to be.

It's cool. Thank you. That means a lot, man. It's awesome. I was looking at the artwork. It looks pretty sick. Yeah, dude. That's fucking badass. Look at that. Jack Rogers from the UK.

What are these three symbols mean? So that's like the three EPs. So you have like Chronicles 1, Lust, Chronicles 2, Heaven and Chronicles 3 Underworld. And yeah, there's like, uh, There was like a bunch of like logo work before that where we had like there was two Vs like on top and they're kind of like the O's the Vov. We just we've been striving for fucking years to create the perfect Vov logo like V-OV. It's it's so fucking simple man.

It should be so fucking easy but we just haven't been able to nail it down. The most simple thing is the hardest to accomplish. 100% for everything songs, you name it, part of lyrics. Dude, literally I was literally before we came here, I was sitting down with my. my friend, Sam, from Ocean Grove, and we were just sitting there late at night, just trying to fucking nail down a logo, just, we were just trying to fucking make the perfect thing. It was fucked. We just went crazy.

And, yeah. But that's the fun stuff, you know, like getting to create with your friends and think about it, things from that greater perspective. You ever think maybe it's just not meant to be? Yes. Like, some things just like don't line up. Like, it's not like, you could be as persistent as you want, but maybe you're just not meant to have a logo. Yeah, dude, that's a fucking thing.

That's the absolute thing. I don't know. We've got a very fucking annoying logo, to be honest. Like, it's not, it's impossible to be squared when you've got like two Vs. It's impossible when you've got an F there. It's, yeah. So we just decide to make it look fucking gross and chaotic. Best way.

Yeah, it's the best way. Yeah, empty. Like, I was thinking about, like, the lyrics that we're talking about how simple. Yeah. Like, when I heard those, I'm like, oh. It's, you know, how, like, how can I feel so empty? Like, it's just, but the way, like, you say it, it's like, oh, yeah, that's like, to execute that. it's like next level.

Thank you, man. It's cool. That was, yeah, that was the line. Like, that was the first line that we went within the song. Like, the first one? Yeah, that was where it started. Like, that very first line, we ducked in, like, it was like halfway through tour, our headline tour last year.

Yeah. And it was just fucking chaos. Like, it was, um, it was like an imposter syndrome moment, kind of. Um, just like thinking, like, what the fuck am I doing? like I don't really deserve to be here and just all those associated feelings like you would have 100% have gone through like a lot of that too and a lot of it was like based upon how I felt I looked and was perceived and stuff like I think I was still part of the reason for all like the makeup and all the looks that we've been going through I've developed alopecia as well like during all of

this and lost all my fucking hair and doing that at like the age of 28 29 it's like like fucked up. Like you're just kind of... Life is throwing you a crazy card, man, I'm getting fucking curveballs. I don't know what the... I don't know who I've pissed off, but I'm getting some fucking curveballs throwing at me. That's upsetting. But I don't know. Keep swinging. You're just swinging. And yeah, this is basically just, I don't know, it was all about just like how I thought I was perceived and I think all the song is just, yeah, it's definitely me just coming to terms

of like how pissed off I was. It just... I just felt fucked. I just felt like, how the fuck could this be what people see and what people think? And I don't even know. Like, you get a lot of comments. You get a lot of weird. Like, they don't mean to be offensive. Like, it's just because it's different.

Like, it's not every day that you see someone with no fucking hair. So I don't know, you get a lot of fucking alien vampire, Voldemort comments coming through. And it's just like, yeah, that's chill, man. But I was outside, I'd be like, this guy is his super new metal. He probably to shit off his fucking, all his hair. Dude, I swear there. There was an act like way, like probably like 99. They weren't massive or anything.

But I swear there was someone who had, and I haven't seen a musician like for ages with alopecia. And I swear there was like a really low key new metal band. It's like a... Hey, Jay, type in a... Alopecia new metal. Yeah, new metal band with alopecia. It was like that...

We're gonna find them. And we're gonna play a song. Is it stabbing westward? No, that wasn't a fucking... it's it's super interesting well there was the guy with alopecia there's a there's definitely like a

fucking amazing hip hop group that's um the song's stone garden I can't remember dude that's that's gonna fuck me up now I just sit down and think about all like those there's so many bands dude dude there it's gotta

do you remember psycho realm psycho realm who's that as like a I think they're from probably California somewhere it's this rap group and one of the vocalists had like alopecia and yeah like it looks fucking hard man it's cool as fuck but that's the thing like it sticks out like a sore thumb because yeah you do think it's for

a bit or you don't really know like and i kind of like blurring that line because yeah people don't know at the end of the day yeah but yeah it's very funny yeah you were like a mysterious person i was looking at pictures i'm like what is what are they about What the fuck They've asked In the phone at all That's good It's how it's to be

It's funny What do you find out About people If you just Shut up And just ask questions Yeah I am

Literally fascinated Fuck yeah What's this person That's a good thing to be I know I've had You know I've had you know

But you know What You know what But Why do not like them Yeah for sure You're asking questions And your mind

It's forced to be open Yeah It's crazy Everyone has a fucking story man like no matter who it is you yeah there's so much you'd uncover from just having people walk through this door and sit down and just dig their brain you're like yeah it is nuts dude it would be hard to keep up with honestly you're probably just getting so much information thrown at you and you're just absorbing so much at this stage too like yeah it's it's like it's like music like you don't want you're

just like you're just like obsessed with it yeah because you just every day you're writing like a new lyric yeah you know yeah it's like what was i'm just i'm just doing what i love i love to do just do it's the creative brain It's kind of just how it works. You want to keep absorbing and... Yeah, it's like that. Yeah, it's like that. I can get better. The knowledge is power kind of like mindset, I guess.

Oh, yeah, this, I mean, this thing, I mean, today is a perfect example. I mean, yeah, this, I say this often, but yeah, this, if it wasn't for this podcast, I probably would have, I don't know, I don't see myself being in the band. Crazy. Yeah. Well, it's, it's interesting, like, because that's, I think a lot of bands are in this, like era too like they're stepping out and they're finding this like this second voice almost and like you have here it's like really just driven you obviously into bringing back like everything

that you were fucking loving like growing up it like puts you back in perspective it's crazy yeah it's crazy man yeah just uh learning and just constantly listening to new music seeing cool bands i'm gonna see you know your band tonight fuck yeah you know it's just it's like a constant just I mean this is like this constant creative space yeah yeah it's different energies every that's why I'm really obsessed with like in person all the time yeah because every person leaves their energy in here it's fucking cool I kind of kind of have a thing where like you're gonna have your own energy here here forever that's a cool feeling and then they leave and it's just kind of a round yeah and now I'm I'll be here working in the next room it's just it's still there yeah you can feel

And now I'm inspired now more than ever since I was a kid. Yeah, that's the thing to it. Like, you would have just tapped into this weird new source that you didn't even know who existed. I didn't even know, I didn't know what no existed. And then I could have all these, now I could implement all these things I learned from, from here. I can tell the guys. Yeah. It's inspirational stuff, dude.

This band did it or days I today, you know, like, sometimes I'm just a bitch. And then I talk to like a, like a, I'm a mature person. I know how to handle real life stuff and, like, the right way. I mean, okay, you know, I didn't get my mind right. Yeah, for sure. You know? You were a living example. You were a living fucking example, dude.

Thank you. Cool. Well, I just said this on the last pod. It was my first question and it just popped in my head. I was like, hmm. So one of the reasons why this is here. Yes. When like when my band came out, like no one really,

knew anything about me or knew anything about about the band. Yes. So I kind of found myself, I was forced into this seat and then trying out to kind of, you know, put my story out, to put the band story out there because the one really did it. Yeah. So it's like, is there anything that you want out there in the world that they want, you want people to know about you, like your fans know about you or the band? Yeah.

Well, I guess all of this, to be honest, like the story, like this is, pretty much the first time I've discussed this in depth with anyone really. Really? Like everything going on? Absolutely, man. Yeah. This is absolutely like... Appreciate that. Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm glad that we could. Like, it's awesome to say. And I don't know, like, there's obviously, that's going to be out into the world very soon, like, through our art and through what we say and speak and through like this live show that we're carrying across the country at the moment. Like, it's all going to be out there.

And it's just nice spreading that at the moment. And I think, yeah, I think that's the thing too. like every it'll be found when it needs to be found like I'd try not to think too much about like I used to get really bummed out just about like not necessarily having the exposure that was like that I wanted and that's just like a that's just a general thing with your art I think but the second that I flicked into like I'm just fucking happy to make this art and just express myself fully like that was the second that that kind of just starts fading away into the background and I could really just finally fucking pop into this and just lock myself in and create the best sort of material that we ever have.

And yeah, I think, yeah, everything that I've been speaking of today is probably what I want to put it into the world and what's about to be. I'm honored to hear it. Fuck yeah. That's sick. Yeah. Literally, I'm in your band right now. You know, you know that, right?

That feels it. It's cool. Yeah. Literally, I have voices going into my fucking skulls. I feel like I'm in like the band. It's just dope. Thank you, man. It's fucking, it's crazy.

It feels great that if this connection is possible. then I feel like it's dope. I hope that that can spread on to others as well. Yeah. Accomplished. Fuck yeah. You know? Fuck yeah.

Yeah, you have a very unique perspective about how you're talking earlier, like, you know, that the world's all like fucked up and, I don't know, this. Oh, fuck. I don't know I should talk about this, but I was, uh, yeah, you're fine. I was just on, I was on YouTube doing like, you know, research and stuff. And then it's kind of how, it's how I get my news. Yeah. I don't know this is a healthy way to get news, but like, sometimes you just open up

YouTube homepage and as you'll see like little you'll see like like a news thing pop up yeah uh I think it was four days ago there was uh someone pulled a gun out at a pasture have you seen this it came out this week this week yeah it's so fucking you shouldn't find that uh on on YouTube it's so fucking weird it was a guy guy pulls gun uh at a at a pasture where was this I think it was this week dude I remember just before we came here like there was something in Sydney like back in Australia something similar happened like

there was like yeah oh dude yeah there you go that where was this Pennsylvania and dude it's so fucking weird like this happened back in home like probably like it was like out of Jesus Christ I actually I fucking remember seeing this

and it's a church goer come down and tackles him dude it's fucking crazy so he had so so so this dude actually pulled the trigger but but the by look of God I mean the

jammed no fucking way so he pulled the trigger fucking crazy and no so there was nothing nothing to do like he's just pulled the trigger

nothing's happened like nope nothing to happen and the pastor mentioned he never saw that person in his life some random dude it's so insane I think

did you remember the one from Sydney like was like a kid too like yeah it was yeah it was yeah Oh, yeah, they actually shot.

It's so crazy. Like, it's just these, and it's the same thing probably. Like, never seen this person in their life just, it's fucked up, man. I don't trust people anymore. It's hard, like, it's very bizarre walking around the streets and just, yeah, you just got no fucking idea who anyone is. Like, it's a really just bizarre world to be in right now.

Yeah. It might be with age, but like, you just kind of, is it? Is this it? I think this is it, yeah. Oh, it was the mall. and then like the day after there was a church thing. Yeah. It's fucking crazy.

Two days in a row? It was like two days in a fucking row. And I remember I was like, yeah, it was just so much going on. But yeah, this is just, yeah, it's fucking crazy. And it's just happening like a lot at the moment's state of the world is just. It's what you were talking about earlier. Yeah. Yeah.

It's fucking, yeah. And I think especially looking at this kind of thing, you do need to have empathy because it's just, Yeah, it's hard to navigate. Like, this is in a fucking shopping center. Like, so many fucking people saw that. So many people who had to experience that. That's going to shift, like, the way people think and live in that context. Oh, totally.

Yeah. Totally. That sucks, dude. This is, I'll look at this just to, like, just to be reminded myself. Yeah. Even when I leave here, it comes to age. You just come to a bit more cautious. Yes.

100%. You know, I'm not being a bitch. anything but it's just conscious and if I'm walking my girlfriend somewhere I'm just trying to see around the corner to see if it's someone just not hiding in the bush or something like weird little things that you kind of

like look out for if I leave I'm usually like the last one leave like I'll be here from like 11 to like 10 p.m. So it's dark and a few blocks down there's like definitely like a drug problem with like

with like fentanyl they're using their tranquilizers so they're like they're all scattered over there so I'll kind of like I'll literally park around the back here and then I'll open a gate with my lights off

and I'll slowly like pull out I don't know why I still thought of my hand I'm just worried like someone it's gonna rush my fucking car yeah but it's so weird that you're not thinking about it to that moment we were in Vegas the other night and we walked back to the motel

it was like super late and I went into the van and just called back home really quick and I was just sitting in the van and like someone's just pulled up next door and like in that moment you're not really thinking like what's going on but like this fucking car just pulls up right next to your van so many parking spots available like

and I'm starting to think I gave what the fuck and this dude gets out and he's gone behind the dumpster so it's using behind the dumpster and I'm just like and I'm just thinking fuck like it's just such a fucking insane world I'm just sitting in the fucking car like just watching this happen at a fucking motel 6 parking lot like

and it's just yeah It's crazy. And then I'm walking back to the hotel room. Everyone's sleeping in cars and like just it's lots of shit going on. It's a rough state. We were in a Atlanta. And I had to pay rent, but they only take like check here. So I went to, well, this was for the previous spot.

So I walked down. I walked down to like the post office. Yeah. And you know when you're walking and you kind of feel like kind of weird. You're like, I don't feel exact. I know it's safe, I don't feel exactly safe. Yeah. And on the way back, I was at a stoplight and a gentleman kind of parks next to me.

And like, you know how normal people drive? They drive and they don't move this driving, showing. The way he was shuffling, it's like he was overly doing it. It was like he was trying to scare me. Like, yeah, I get a gun or I'm going to come out with a knife. He was like shuffling. I see it happening in the side. I'm trying to stay calm in your body.

I'm like, it sits where I'm going to go. Yeah, it feels fucking weird. It says where I'm going to go right in front of the fucking masquerade in Atlanta, just trying to pay rent going to a post office. Oh, man. It's the fact that that stuff happens.

Yeah, I know. It's like, why? You have to be mentally just prepared to like think of that moment being real. Like, yeah. But luckily he drove off. I'm like, wow. Yeah. I wonder if it was, I don't know.

It happens all very quickly, too. It's tough not to be. judgmental but he definitely looked like someone that would do something sketchy it's hard man and like we were just saying you don't know like and you probably won't until something bad happens or like if nothing happens like that's a thing like it's hard to just like judge people and face value out there like yeah yeah like you're looking at that stuff that some the priest someone who's never met in their fucking life he's just busting into the church with the fucking handgun yeah and i have like a lot of experience with uh with homeless people

Because I have a brother that's that that's homeless and seeing their like progression You know, okay, you know Seeing help is seeing how see what happens when when you help them yeah, you don't help them It's it's it's tough because some people just choose This is there's literally no helping them. Yeah, there's no helping it's difficult dude It's fucking and that's the thing it is a choice like like unfortunately like the choices might not necessarily necessarily be like grand choices or so it might be just two very terrible choices you have to make and it's all take yeah it's all it takes too i mean and and even in our in our world like the music industry

i made you know just a few bad decisions a few bad choices just in like in the healthy like environment like yeah fucking cost us a ton of money dude that's money and then that causes other people to be depressed in the band and then there's like this this internal chaos like just it's really hard. It's hard to be human. Yes. It's so fucking hard, man. Like, it's, and like you're saying, it's just so many choices. And we make bad choices. That's just human nature. Like, it's living and learning and just trying to figure that out along the way. And like you said, like, you've probably made this choice and, like, you now look at everything from a different perspective in that world. And that's just something you've learned along the way. And it just had to be,

like, difficult. Like, I think that's what we have to go through. We have to go through difficulties in order to fucking make anything else work. Like, it's tricky. You lived it. You know, I have conversation like this. I'm okay, and I need to not well on anything. How do you handle, how do you personally, this is something that I struggle with. Yeah. How do you handle pressure?

Because you're talking like real life shit and everyone has their own level of pressure. It's like pressure. We all have like, everyone's life has a lot of moving parts. If you ever sit down for a little bit, I did this this week actually. It's why I'm bringing it up. Yeah. I sit down and kind of. think about what you have going on in your life.

It's a lot, a lot of moving parts. It's a lot. A lot of, it's like, and then, it was the first time ever where I really, I didn't get overwhelmed.

Well, I was aware of it and kind of, it did, it freaked me out for a second. Damn, how am I, how am I going to fix this shit? Yeah.

Dude, I, how do you handle pressure? I just like, fucking, I recently have just made a lot of, on the back of just everything going on. Like,

I've just been telling you, this has just been a lot of stuff going on my life. Like, the radiotherapy beginning. Just, like, weird instances of people coming back into my life and relationships forming and departing and I had to just make, I don't know, I had to bite the bullet on like some just really hard choices

within relationships like that and it was hard and I think it was not, it's, I mean, a weird state of like just openness at the moment where I'm really for the first time looking at my future as a human being like obviously like music is like what I love doing right now and I'm so lucky to have been able to be doing this for 10, 11 years and getting to fucking the United States of America right now. It's crazy, man. It is, it is. And I don't know, it's crazy to be here right now. With that being said, like, I know this isn't like a grand scheme of things.

Like, I need to look at what I'm doing in the grander sense and, like, where I want to be in the next 10 years. Like, I feel like I've lived very, like, off the moment as I've been growing up like this. I've kind of been going day by day even, like how I approach everything. And for the first time, I'm looking at a grander scale and thinking, where do I want to be when I'm like 40 years old, 50 years old, etc. Because I think for a brief second there, like, that might not have existed. And like, well, I still want to approach with that mentality. Because it is so refreshing to kind of just go day by day and experience by experience. I do want to kind of have a bit more of a grander vision of, pardon the pun with the band name.

Like, I want to have a bit more of a vision with everything going on and just see, like, I don't know life as it will be and like what it could be for once and yeah I think that involves just me thinking about where I want to and there's a lot of that still I always want to be involved with music in a sense I want to like help push it into like like we're talking about like you want to make these special things happen you want to see like you want to encourage an environment where that can be able heavy music can be like pushed into a I don't know back into like a world where it's accepted and like given these new ideas that are so exciting the attention that. that they deserve, you know. And whether that be through putting it out or trying to put it out

myself or like encouraging and helping others to do that in another sense, like I feel like that's always a world that I want to be involved in. And yeah, I don't know. There's just a lot of thoughts going through my head right now is where I want to sort of be in the future. And yeah, it's really refreshing to actually have that time and like space to think about all of that. And especially being here straight after everything that's been going on. It's really nice to just know it still exists. It's still real. Your next collection of songs, as I've learned to call them.

Yes, yeah, that's it. Yeah. You guys got something coming up soon. Absolutely. Yeah. It's exciting. And seeing you and your mindset's going to be sick. Yeah, thank you, man.

It feels fucking great. Like, we've just been putting a lot into it. And, yeah, I just, yeah, I just want to work up. and give it the attention it deserves, like, in my, in my head. And I think that'll be easy because I've given it all the attention that I can. And now I just want the world to have it and let it breathe, you know, like, give it life. Yeah. What's your, uh, what's your take on God?

It's really interesting, you say that because I really just don't, I've never given that, like, the space. I feel like there's, yeah, it's so bizarre. And I feel like a lot of people do it this, like, after. to going through everything that I have. Like, it's a common thing. It's why I ask you. Yeah, and I just still never really gave it the space.

I do, I like, I think it's the idea for a lot of people that there is a greater power out there and there's something greater than like human life or something that kind of a magic or a power that kind of breathes everything into being. Like, I think it's maybe trying to figure, our brain's trying to figure out like, why is this happening? like when something seems so unreal it's like okay this couldn't be possibly anything that I've like brought into life but I don't know like I've just been saying all these weird things that have happening right now and so much so quickly like there's been times where I think like gee

like I wonder if there's greater forces of being that I kind of bring this into my life but at the end of the day it's just I don't know it's just it's not consequence it's more just like results of how I've lived and I do think that, yeah, I don't know, it's everything that I've done up into this point of my life is just unfolding and I'm just dealing with that how I deal with it. I don't know. It's very interesting. I feel very... Interesting. Yeah, I feel very... I've just really never given it the space, to be honest, just religion. Really?

I've grown up religious, like, with my parents and, like, they weren't heavily religious, but, like, I was baptized, communion back in Australia, like, everything. like that. Catholic? Yeah, Catholic. So I've got like Irish background and but it's yeah, it's super interesting. It's never been a huge family value thing. Yeah, like never really went to, never went to church as a kid like it's had a weird, it has a very weird presence in my life because obviously I have had all of this like introduction as a child where it's not really by choice. It's just kind of a you're baptized. Yeah, just and it's really weird like that thinking about it. And yeah now I'm just in the stage

when I'm like man like I guess I'm baptized but damn like I really just don't give it the space like I've entered that world technically but I don't give it any time so when you're so when you're having seizures

and you're blacking out behind the wheel and you almost die there's not there's not one thought popped up not one thought what the yeah which is bizarre man like hey I might die

where am I going to go? Yeah, well, funnily enough, that's, that's weird that I haven't thought about that. What the f***? Like, is it you right there? Being baptized? There is. We found a photo. Dude, you found photo of me with hair.

No, but for real, like, that's as weird as that is, I think not thinking about that has made me hone more into, like, what I'm doing while I'm here. So. Interesting. The people you meet and talk is crazy. It really is, man. I thought it would be like, since you dealt with what you dealt with, I'm like, okay, he'll have something crazy.

And I meet so many people who have had, like, life-altering moments, and they'll just come out the other side and they'll found God or just found a greater sense of meaning or purpose. And I don't know, like, well, greatest sense of meaning and purpose is definitely what's kind of going on here for myself, but without an external kind of guide, I guess. Because it is like a guide. a support for you in a greatest sense but I think with the people I surround myself with that's where I gain this support and like the guide from and I've met some incredible people that

have just been yeah really helping me along the way and that's kind of all I need like I think I'm not thinking about an afterlife in any sense I'm thinking about this life like that's yeah interesting yeah I kind of know where where to go now we're so it's it's you, that's what you think, then what do you think, what do you think lyrics come from? Lyrics come from? Like I said, like personal, just fucking really, that deep core that I really only tapped into of like, like, it's just a very deep emotional fucking feeling that like you've never felt before.

Like, it's new ideas that present themselves and just feel just so unreal because, I don't It's nice to feel the emotions you've never felt before. Like, it's fucking crazy to have that feeling for the first time. And you think you can't possibly have more experience or more emotion. Because you think as you grow, you think you've had it all. You think there's no more like, and then it just keeps fucking coming. It keeps fucking coming. And it surprises me every fucking time.

And that feels me with so much, like, joy and, like, confidence to just keep creating into the future because ideas are just not going to fucking stop. it's not like a tap you turn off like it's just we're always going to feel emotion we're always going to feel the things we feel and yeah i don't think anything could ever stop that to be honest wow yeah that's what you believe in and you're also tapped in at the same time crazy i never thought about that in my life it's it's really interesting like you bringing that to my attention i'm currently just thinking out loud and it is what it is yeah do you uh do you smoke weed or anything? No, I don't know that. Like, yeah. Oh, well, yeah, no, my, you're saying out earlier.

Yeah, that's it. Like, huh. It's interesting. I guess what you, what you could do with, with your condition, you could do like, like the float tangers. That's the only thing I could do. 100% and like, meditation. Meditation is like something that I've just really been thinking about lately, like, just for health and like, just entering that sort of space and just giving, I do want to try, like, these sorts of things. I don't want to try new things, too, because that goes in with what I was saying, just feeling things for the first time again and new ways of understanding, you know, like, yeah, I've got a lot of ahead to do. Like, that's a thing. I haven't run out of fucking anything or any possibilities. Like, there's still so much ahead. Like, it's, it's very interesting

and refreshing to think of like that for the first time. Well, you have a lot of life left to live. That's it. Yeah, and I'm very grateful for that. A lot of time to sit down with your thoughts. Yeah. That's the shit I'm going for. All the float tank? Yeah. Now you've made. That would be pretty crazy. Getting tanked. Let's fucking get tanked. New age tanked, yeah.

Let's fucking get tanked. I would just smoke weed and go Let the thoughts go. I've done it in a while. Is there an amount of time you spend in that? Is there like a cutoff time before you just lose your fucking mind? Yeah, you either lose it or you find it. Yeah.

Or you're trying to just catch it. Yeah, it's out, it's in there somewhere. It's like, you're floating in it. It's in a tank somewhere. I'm gonna fucking find it. It's like a, it's like a low, a low time frame is an hour, average, it's one and a half. People go there for a long like two hours plus. It's crazy.

You know? Yeah. Something about it is just letting your thoughts go. Yeah. I just like let them go. It's interesting, too, because when do we give ourselves the time to do that, really? Like, day to day with just how busy we're. all are and I think God was trying to fucking kill you so we'll stop and think about life for a minute

dude that that wasn't even enough that is mind blown yeah you are you are a very special human thank you thank you likewise honestly like being able to have these conversations I feel like there's a connection that like really only special people can have and yeah you can't do this thing with every single person and yeah create is connect or better or for worse 100% sometimes you connect with the wrong person, but it makes for sick ass music. It does. Hey. History is proven.

You know, or a toxic relationship sometimes. We've all been there. I've been there three times. It's fine. Three times. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. I was engaged when I was 26. I was engaged.

It was one of those, like, I got into a relationship, like, right when the band took off. Yeah. Like, 2009, high school, former high school a sweetheart yeah so she kind of dealt with the worst i was like party it's it's it's hard do like to i don't know like there's i've been in relationships like my whole fucking life from like 18 to now like it's just like yeah it's crazy like to just fucking i don't know it's very bizarre to like think that i've just been processing this all but there's always been someone

kind of there and i think that does speak on my half a bit like whether it's like a I don't know. It's not necessarily like being attached. I think it's just always having like someone there to bounce off. And that's important in my life, I guess. Like, yeah. Totally. It's interesting to think of like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You want that other, what is it? Other half of you to be healthy. For sure. If it's not, then it's a fucking mess. Yeah, that's it. A fucking mess, dude.

For sure. Yeah. I'm reliving those moments. Oh my goodness. But it's cool. It's cool. It's cool. When you get, uh, you get like, you get like a redo.

Yeah. You get to be in like a healthy relationship. Yeah. You gain sense of independence within that too that you might not have had prior. And I don't know. It's, yeah. I wish I got into a relationship sooner. I was single from like 27 to 33.

Mm-hmm. Around there. Because I told myself, I'm, I'm going to be single until I'm 35. I made like the commitment. Crazy. I was like, no. How old were you when you made the... I made the switch when I met my current girlfriend.

Gotcha. So I've been dating for four years. Gotcha. I wish I did sooner. Yeah. I wish I... But, you know, you don't have... Sometimes you don't have the tools.

Yeah. No, you're 100 fucking percent. I didn't have the tools in my mid to late 20s. So I had a lot of alone time. Yeah. A lot of just thinking. Well, that's where you kind of get a sense of independence and start to learn how you can get those tools like passed on to you

how you can use them. Totally. That's it, yeah. I don't know if you're like, yeah, it's a very interesting process because, like, talking about all of this, like, independent growth. Like, there's also growth within relationships. Oh, totally. How to handle that, like, is emotionally mature.

Yeah, growing pains for sure, yeah. Growing pains are embarrassing. Everyone hasn't, man. It's the thing. I know. I know it's home, but it sucks that it has to happen. Yes, it does suck. And it's hard.

It's another one of those difficult things that we used to go through and have to wear. I know. But you come out the other side and you're fucking, you're there. I wish I had my mental breakdown as like early 30s as opposed to mid-30s. Interesting.

That would have been cool. It would have been much preferred. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I was thinking about this this week. Like it's like the universe just knows when you're not ready. Yeah.

Just knows. Oh shit. And then you, that makes you reassess. Okay, this is where I could have improved. It's why I'm looking back. It just knows when to throw a lot at you. Yeah. But it's very,

interesting how we use those experiences and like bring it back to like like prevent that happening in the future and how to reshape the way we go into the future too that's that's the magic of it we all we all have it in us yeah we could take that that mental breakdown or we could take that that life lesson and we could learn from it 100% we all had that capacity yes no matter how you know I'm lucky it had us and another deal with it. Yeah. Any closing thoughts? Anything that I didn't touch on?

This is your time. This is your podcast. This is the time. Thank you, man. I don't know. If any of this just like, obviously we're resonating a lot and I don't know, it's nice to know that there are people out there that this could, I don't know, resonate with as well. Like sometimes all it takes is like a wake-up.

call and just like a click like a spark and yeah i think that's a lot of what i'm going for with everything i put out from here and being real is just kind of providing that potential moment for people as well if that's the least that i can fucking do like as selfish as it is a lot of this art is for myself and just for those around me like but at the end of the day it's also for what we do is for the culture and like bringing forward that kind of thought provoking kind of situation for people and yeah if anything that has been spoken into this thing today can do that then that's that's a job well done sick i know it's like backwards thinking but you but you can't write music for other people it's fucking hard man like you can try but it's you can't because then when you when you're

right up for yourself like the opposite effect happens that's that's what that's what connects with people exactly it's like that backwards it might i know i might offend some fans but it's just that's not how it works yeah 100% it's the reality of it man not unfortunately it's like it's like that opposite happens. Right, right? That's the only time that you're allowed to be selfish. Really the only time. And yeah, it's amazing how we can breathe through it.

Yeah. You know, right about your own feelings. And then that's, it creates that unexplainable frequency. Yeah. It's that feeling. It's the first time feeling that emotion, like, that I keep talking about. It's just being able to create that and know that that's always going to be a constant

throughout life. Like, yeah. And then they make it come out of those two speakers. Absolutely. That's what it's all about. Yeah. I know, like, thinking about all of this and then bringing it back down to that moment where you just make it loud as fucking hell

and just give it to everyone in that delivery and sense. That's the moment that you make it for. And I think, yeah, that's being lost a lot, I think, at the moment. Like, I don't know. It's very interesting, like, hearing people come into the merch desk and, like, I don't know, live energy is still just something that translates so fucking different to, like, anything else on the fucking internet. And yeah, we can't lose that.

So that's what we're fucking shooting for. And live shows are not going away. No. Thank fuck. Yeah. My favorite thing to do is drink a beer as a while. Why should you ban? Yeah.

A few beers. But beer is good. Dude, good thing. Beer just goes to your biceps. So that's the good news. Bears goes your fun. Yeah. So that's the good news.

And that's my science. That's your science. And that's how we're going to close this one off. Beers to the biceps. It's a cool. You're on tour, ERA. Yes. With error at the moment.

Arrow make them suffer. And novelists. Sick. Yeah. You're going to reach halfway a point in a few days. Yes. Yeah. Right on this side of the coast.

Sick. Yeah. You're on, you're in California. Oh, yeah. It's sick, man. You can feel it when you're coming in. I don't know. This morning, it's all just flicked.

Like the mood just changed. Yeah. It's a thing. It's a thing. It feels good, dude. Yeah. That's kind of what I drive up here. I'm trying to close it off.

But yeah. I'll drive up here. I'm like, I'm driving in California right now. And I hope I. I hope bands and artists that come on a podcast experience that. Simple stuff like you're driving on the freeway, but you're in California. I want the whole, it's that the whole experience. You drive in California, you're here, then you leave and drive California to a venue.

It's culture, man. It's full with it. It's awesome. And you can feel it when you're playing these venues too. Like there's history. There's just fucking, yeah. It feels like it's where it started and it's cool to be a part of. I was always fascinating with, uh, it kind of happened with you.

like a with, there's something about the beach that makes you angry. Interesting. I mean, didn't you write in like a, like a beach house? Yeah, we went down. Yeah, actually, honestly. Yeah, we did one of the EPs. We went down to James's parents like beach house just down on the coast. And yeah, it was, it's really interesting.

We just let it all out. Yeah, very good point. A lot of bands. Why does that work? I don't know. A lot, it's interesting that a lot of bands treated it's like, oh, we're going to get away to somewhere nice to like make this really cathartic experience work.

but yeah, it's relaxing environment just kind of lets you lash out because maybe you are comfortable for the first time to be able to do all that. Maybe that's what it is, a sense of serenity that increases like the... Maybe. The empathy, I don't know.

Yeah, I wonder. I mean, that's where, like, I mean, yeah, corn, I mean, the poster of... I think, yeah, all those records were recorded. Literally. They were recorded in Indigo Ranch in Malibu. In Malibu.

Malibu. one of the most beautiful places in here. It's like how does it's like it makes no sense. It literally makes no sense. There it is. That's fucking crazy.

Look at that. Yeah, it's a bizarre world, isn't it? Malibu. I know they have pictures of like the outside of it. Yeah. It's like, oh, I wish we could get pictures from the outside.

Yeah, I know. Just to see the environment. Because yeah, you're right. It's just fucking. Right, right, right. Boom. Oh man. It's just,

how does that, how does that create? It's serenity. It's fucking lovely. It's so interesting. Some of the heaviest shit still. Yeah. But honestly,

literally looking at those records. It's weird. Yeah, it's the heaviest stuff. It's cool. It's fully is. It's insane that the most pissed off records of all time are just made in that environment.

It's cool. You think there'll be like really fucking intense kind of fucked up sort of spots. You would think, but. Yeah. Quite the opposite. Maybe it's the opposite to track.

I don't know. It's true. I was attracted. Seeing something beautiful also make you pissed. Yeah, that's what it is. Something about it. Yeah. That's probably something that I should ponder on.

Why? That's it. I'm going to take that. Cool. I like that. Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate your time and thank you for sharing your story with me. Likewise.

And the world. Yeah. It's cool. Thank you for having me. I try to me say anything. We're good. Yeah. The story is out.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Feels good. All right, everyone. Boydivision. Fuck yeah. Thank you. Later.

Thank you.