Garza Podcast - 130 - KING 810

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with David Gunn & Eugene Gill from Flint, MI metal band KING 810. https://king810.com SPONSORS: https://distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! https://emgpickups.com Use Code: HEAVY at checkout for 15% OFF! CHAPTERS: 00:00 - KING 810 Keeping a Small Circle, Feeling Closed Off From Other Bands 07:00 - KING 810 Industry Plant Conspiracy 13:38 - Growing Up in Flint, Michigan, Being Immature in the Early Days, Not Playing Industry Games 18:40 - Touring with Korn & Slipknot, Advice from Slipknot Guys 22:44 - Getting in Trouble on Tour 29:18 - Survivor’s Guilt, Taking a Different Path From Gang Life 41:08 - Not Writing Lyrics, Getting Out of the Way of Creativity 50:38 - Learning From Painful Experiences, Jail Time, Tragedy 56:43 - Smartphones Getting More Pervasive 58:17 - David & Eugene Meeting at School, Being Goth AF 1:08:21 - Signing to Roadrunner Records, Working with Josh Schroeder 1:11:11 - Rebates & Discounts For Life 1:13:42 - Getting Out of Flint, MI, Writing First KING 810 Songs 1:19:09 - David’s Vocal Recording Process 1:20:24 - Robbing a K-Mart, Sticking Together With Your Friends 1:30:44 - Having Street Smarts, Integrity 1:34:08 - Writing “Fat Around the Heart” 1:38:03 - KING 810 E.P. / Short Film Series Under the Black Rainbow 1:42:43 - Charging Toward What Scares You

And then I see this guy. He's out here mac at my school. And like, and he seems cool. You know, like he's got out like, yeah, I want to call him a poser, but it's just legit, you know. Because I got the white powder face looking like the crow. I got long duck tape dreds black and white beat it out, you know. And I'm just, everyone's a poser to me. So I'm here with King 810.

This conversation is actually 10 years in the making. I have had, there's a, okay, I've told a quick story and then, and then we go finally, move on to you guys um so we did a tour together 2014 you know you're one of the bands I watched for obvious reasons you guys are just your fucking psychopaths same and then um there was one evening that of course a few drinks were involved I think it was me and the ex guitar player for Anino Diego we're like we're like we're just gonna go up there and talk to him okay so Later, I actually just reevaluated this memory this past week,

and it was actually super disrespectful of what we did. But we were trying to walk up on your bus. Yes. This is funny. I'll give you a little context just to pause you, and then we'll pick back up where you're at. Let's go. The whole tour, we were only living in our bus,

and there was 15 of us. Yes. So it's just a crew of people with masks and hats and only our t-shirts. Okay. Didn't have a friend in the world, pretty introverted, and we're like, yeah, you know, these bands are about to find out who we are because we were just stupid kids, right? We're like, you don't talk to anyone, you don't, well, half of us were on the run. So they're kind of hiding out in the bus and we're keeping to ourselves.

And I'm like, yo, there's 15 of us. Don't go fuck anything up. You know what I mean? You're doing this, you know, X, Y, and Z. There's a lot of moving parts. So I'm just kind of like we're going to stick together and stick on the bus. Plus we're all friends since we were kids. It wasn't like a situation where we were bringing someone on the road that was a crew guy that you might have known.

You didn't know anyone from our group because we were just our group. So we kind of stuck to ourselves. So the context leading up to this point is the tours nearing an end. I remember this day. And no one's you weren't alone. We didn't talk to anyone, you know. Yeah. So everyone was getting curious.

So now you can pick it back up. Sorry to interrupt you. Oh, sure. I think, I'm not sure if your driver was protective, but she was like, no, get off. Yeah. She was kind of like the mother figure. Pretty cool. These 15 dudes that were just stupid kids, you know, pretty much breaking any type of rule in around outside the show, inside the show, on the tour, off the tour.

Yeah. You know, she had to live with us all day. So she was awesome. Her name was Michelle. She was she's from down south, so she'd just make sure no one was going in or out that wasn't authorized. You know, I remember what you're talking about, though. It was actually pretty funny. Yeah.

It wasn't disrespectful to us, but we probably just stared at you. Does that sound about right? I'm not aware of who I saw. I don't think I got on the first step. She was like very on it. Yeah. She was working security detail, but we weren't, we weren't necessarily paying her for security. she was just doing that pro bono.

Did you come up with this prior to this trip, hey, we're just going to, like, this is our bubble, and we don't want anyone to fuck this up. It was just like a pre-conversation. I think that's just how we are at home. So there was no difference to the, we didn't really separate the life of the being at home and then going on the road.

You know what I mean? The group that we had, that's our group. Those were the people we lived. with. So we packed up our things from our house, got on the tour bus, and it never occurred to anyone that we might want to do some networking. So when you're like, the conversation is 10 years in the making, that's really true because we just recently decided to speak to people very recently in the last few years, you know. Okay. So this was like a, like a conscious choice. Maybe, but I think it more was kind of subconscious.

Having no desire to speak to anyone because you were just living in your own universe. It wasn't anything where we showed up and thought we were cool. It was probably actually the opposite. The opposite. Yeah. It was kind of like, we know we don't belong here and everything, and we know we're nothing like these guys, which is actually pretty negative and kind of a little bit destructive. But it was like, who cares?

These are my shitty friends. and I was kind of halfway worried that they would just do something wrong, you know, because they don't really have the etiquette. So the way, you know, you're like, it's disrespectful to bust on someone's bus. These dudes were doing way more disrespectful shit. So I kind of try to reel him in a little bit because it can go south when you have 15 guys that think they're on a road trip, you know?

That's where our first tour was. So there was no etiquette. So I kind of just was like, we got to stick. We got to stick together. No, that was very accomplished. Because yeah, it just, it just rose, it just rose a lot of curiosity. You know, because there was like a few, I think you guys at that point played a few shows. And then there was, you know, where so we're seeing videos and people were talking, which is what you want.

And then, okay, now we find out we're doing this tour together. That was Eddie's for sort with, with us. And then, so we're excited. And you guys were just, yeah, you had your own bubble. A couple of your guys would, like, go out and say, and say what's up. It's, like, pretty much impossible to keep 15 guys on, like, a bus. It's tough. But, yeah, we were, I mean, our band is usually the ones who are, like, we like anything,

and that's, like, not exactly what's happening. Yeah. So we were, you guys were, like, one of our favorite bands on the tour. Oh, sick. Likewise. That was, that's, that was awesome. I really like. the tour even though looking back on it I guess from the way we're talking about it now we might

have not have made the most of it but I was I was happy with it I thought it was cool kind of in a way could be taken as I think this was taken from the outside perspective of something was contrive or planned or whatever so when you say something like did you plan this to do this before you went yes it wasn't really a plan but it kind of gets interpreted as that because in this industry it's such a superficial, pathetic industry that. Well, everybody said. There's constant paranoia I noticed. Some of it is psychological projection, but, you know, if you go and see a good band,

they have to be on tracks. They can't be really doing that, you know, because I'm not doing that. That's kind of the attitude. So when they see a band like us and they're like, oh, they say they're from Flint and, you know, they have this history and this past and they're really weird and they keep themselves. They're like, they must not be from Flint. they must just really be an industry plant and they must be this must be a sci-op you know that's that was

kind of the thinking and it kind of worked uh in the outside world because we never cared to clear it up we weren't we weren't desperately like hey just so you guys know we're legit yeah because we don't give a fuck we also kind of didn't we didn't have to uh do that because we got arrested oh yeah they were kind of like oh it is real before mayhem we had got arrested because I was going back and forth to trial dates that entire tour. That was another thing. Yeah, like

we would play the show and then have to get on the plane to fly home to go to court and then fly back in the morning or the next day after the court to go to play the show again. We played at noon so we were doing like a whole series of court cases so we didn't really want to bro down with bands and well, just to be

clear, neither of us drink and we've never drank and we've never smoked or something. We're both straight edge and we don't want to do that anyway. Oh, my goodness. But besides that, we were like, we had shit to do. And we were thinking, you know, we got to beat this case and shit. And we would do rock the show and stuff and all that was cool. And we would play at noon.

But we were really kind of thinking we got to, we got to, we were focused on the case for the first tour. Yeah, people I know you're just now speaking about it. People just, you had the two sides. That one was like people knew, oh, this is a different, this is a different thing and they're, they're serious and they're not fucking around. The other side was, it's just a gimmick. It's this, it's just like a show. Yeah. So you have both sides.

So it sounds like it kind of worked. Yeah, it worked. It worked in a way. I would rather they kind of rather just people left it alone. in that sense because I could be just full of myself and delusional, but I consider myself artistic and stuff. So when people say things like, not that I care what they say,

but when they interpret it as something like, I'd rather to just be interpreted as this artistic stuff because I already know that the industry of music is an industry, and I don't care about being real to a bunch of nerds that, you know what I mean, live with their moms and stuff, or comment online a lot or even people that I don't even consider my peers, not to be a dick, but I don't think I'm better than anyone.

I just say that to basically say that. I know the business is a business in an industry is an industry, and we didn't show up. Maybe it appeared this way. I don't really know how because we never really got into any real stuff as far as on the road or with bands or anything, but we didn't show up trying to tough guide people and stuff, I guess, would be the simplest way of putting it.

So being real and stuff is cool, you know, in the world. But this is where I understand the complete suspicion that people have about things being contrived or gimmicks or whatever. I understand it because everything in this industry is fake. Everyone's role playing as far as I'm concerned. And I understand completely when someone's like, these guys aren't real because 90s. 99% of the time, that's the right guess. So it's like having a roulette wheel that every color is black besides one.

You know, the odds are your bet's probably going to be good to go on black. But once in a while, I think something different happens. That could just be my shitty take of delusion, like I said. But I always kind of err on the side of caution that everyone's pretty justified,

thinking stuff's fake, because, as you know, mostly everything is. Well, yeah, exactly. Well, the best start is it flips things on themselves. So maybe they see something that's real that they perceive as fake or they project as fake.

Maybe that's actually they're saying something about themselves. That's what I think. Right? Yeah. But then also things have came out, you know, in the wash kind of, I guess, where I don't know what the example would be, but it seems like...

these people are real freaks for attention, which is sad, even in our industry where it's supposed to be kind of counterculture against the grain. It's not really mainstream. We're obviously not millionaires sitting around pontificating about our next, you know, PR stunt. But it's almost like a low-grade kind of, you know, grifter mentality where people are really freaks for attention and are trying to dream up these. weird. I don't want to call them publicity stunts, but just weird shit. Everyone's, I don't know. I don't know what's going on, Garza. No, I don't either. It's funny around

the same time in our, I guess you could say careers, which is strange. In our path playing, playing music. Around the same time, a few years ago, it was like, I want to network. You know, it's because I love, for the sole fact, I love playing music. Yeah. You know, what can make me play music?

Yeah. That's it. I really don't give a fuck about it. My main passion is heavy music and making that the best possible. That's really, and whatever I got to do to make, make that happen. If I sort of fucking podcast or something, that I'm going to play music, that's it. And through networking, you know, you meet like the one of a hundreds. Mm-hmm.

Oh, you're, you're sick. Yeah. You're real. you kind of a lot of uh i want to use the word i'm like i got kind of for you a chameleon yeah yeah yeah it's strange and and you you and jean like you i mean especially where you you grew up i mean you're talking like that probably taught you like crazy street smart and how to judge someone's character yeah because i mean because your life's kind of depend on it exactly yeah that's and that's also goes back to the answer that i that i that i just gave kind of

even though it was a long-winded one about knowing the difference between real shit and not real shit. And when you walk into a business situation or a band situation or a networking situation or a show or a festival or whatever you want to call it, I'm not going to say I flick my spider senses off. I don't cut, I don't turn them off, but they're not tingling. When someone in a band, music, whatever context does something, it doesn't really make me mad. Like it would if we were on the street, it's it's a little bit different. Yeah. But in this context, my, I have a suspended belief that there isn't anything real is going to happen.

So in that way, I don't really get mad or upset or take things personal, you know, for any of that type of stuff. Even when someone tries to get one over on you, you know, I might sense it and be like, yeah, this ain't the guy we need to be around. but I'm not going to do anything crazy to this guy. He's just a nerd trying to do business. You know what I mean? It would be different in the street, though. You kind of have to be a little bit more aggressive in that world. It'll just get rolled over.

You guys don't know how to compartmentalize to like a whole other level. Yeah. I don't know. To treat each scenario is so different. Like you guys took it to like a next level because I'm 38. So I learned how to compartmentalize this year. Yeah, so thank you, everybody. Hey, yes.

Congratulations. But you guys have been doing that. I hope you do it healthy so you don't get schizophrenia like we do. I did feel like I was turning into like a full-on, like, sociopath or like, or a schizo is kind of up there. Maybe dissociative or something. Yeah, I can see how that would work. It's hard. Integrate it.

It's hard. because you're because so you have the this one area in in your life for like okay i need to be this way this way this is this is real this is real fucking life and then this other situation i'm just i'm just i'm just out on tour hanging out with random people nothing's gonna happen right it's all good there might be a fight but that's pretty much the extent of it yeah i actually i'm actually being a jackass i was uh revising history a little bit the way that that thinking was that i just said that kind of mature view that this guy in this business isn't really out you know can't do me no harm or anything we didn't really have that mentality when we first started we were trying to

ride on anyone because we we didn't compartmentalize it we we so i don't mean to look back with some type of revisionist history rose tinted kind of lenses to say you know when i was in my 20s i still was above all this stuff, you know, because I wasn't. It's only, like you said, integrating, kind of compartmentalizing things at 38. It's only up until recently, as I said at the beginning, that we started to be willing to talk to people and do this type of thing. It was only within the past few years. Before that, we were pretty knuckle, pretty much knuckleheads, you know. So that was, I think.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it wasn't like this when we came on. When we were doing the tour that you're talking about, it wasn't, the shit wasn't very well compartmentalized. We were. Yeah, we were telling everyone to fuck off. We weren't doing interviews. We weren't talking about what was, you know, going on. We weren't mingling or rubbing elbows or smoothing or whatever you want to call it. Like, we just, we weren't playing the game at all.

Like, we just, we were, like, we're going to come in and do what we've always done. The same way we came in with the crew and kept to ourselves was just, We just took the way we were living on the road and into this industry. Yeah, but I think getting into the present day, like right here, right now kind of answer is, I think we've came to the understanding that things are a little bit different in this world, and we don't have to be that way, or maybe it's maturity or whatever. Other corny things, people usually say, you know, I'm growing and I'm learning and all that, but yeah it's not it wasn't always like this I guess

so yeah it's like you're not like I had like overpass and someone swinging knife at you yeah yeah that's not really yeah yeah yeah it's not it's not something's happening you know yeah I mean and so and and you said this when when you walked when you walked in here like like you guys I mean then you guys you guys from that mayhem show and then you went on tour with fucking corner of slut my like that was that's that's that That's my best case scenario ever. In the world, right?

And you got to do it in the States and overseas all the way to Australia. It was insane. Like when I saw that lineup, I was like, fuck those guys. But you know, because you're, because I'm very like, like, competitive. How do they get that? But that was like short-lived and like one second. It was like, damn, fuck those guys. But that's sick, they did it from fucking Flint.

It's pretty weird, right? I really haven't really. I don't know. That's crazy. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't figured that out either. That was like the best thing that could have possibly happened to us, I think. Use EMG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. Head over to EMG pickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off.

And then once you write the heaviest song of all time, head over to distroKid.com slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all. your songs on all streaming platforms. And now to the heaviest podcast of all time. And it was. And it took you guys three months to even say anything to them. Yeah. It's pretty funny. It sucks, dude.

I think the whole tour went by and I didn't talk to most of them actually. Just stayed out of the way because I thought I was going to fuck something up and these are my favorite bands. Oh, no. Isn't that funny? To be fair, we were kind of doing a lot to fuck it up, too. We were still wiling though. Yeah.

Because we were like, oh, yeah. rooms fucking up like security guards and shit we thought we were recreating welcome to our neighborhood that you know the slip not phs we're like oh yeah you guys you guys thought that was cool check this out and they're like yo what's wrong with you guys we're like i don't know yeah yeah but they but they had to like to expect something they yeah i mean they know who you are and where you're you're you're from and they've seen the video So like, okay, they had to expect. So they actually invited you to be.

Yeah, I think they just came from a place of concern. Because I remember Sean. Yeah, that's what I think it was. It wasn't, they weren't really wondering what's wrong with us because obviously things are wrong with them too. But I remember Sean saying it one day. He's like, this ain't the path you want to go down, you know, kind of thing. He wasn't giving me a talk like a dad talk, but he said, you know, we went down.

We went down this and the path and did X, Y, and Z. I'm not going to say what he said, but he's like, you guys got to make sure you don't do what it looks like you're about to do. And I was like, yeah, okay. I don't know if I listened. I don't know if I listened. And the same with Corey. And Sid, now, Sid was like, no, fuck that. We got to do something, you know, Sid is Sid.

So it's cool. I think it came from a place more of concern, not of, you know, having learned from a few things. They would have some insight to give. Although, like I said, we never asked, not because we didn't want it. Of course, we wanted to talk and hang out with them every day because they're our favorite band, you know? And same with corn, but to me it was more like imposter syndrome. Like, you don't really deserve to be here. So just stay out of the people that are actually working because you're just playing, you know, stay out of their way.

And plus we were getting trouble pretty much every other day. We would do something stupid. Yeah. Just being kids and just doing fucked up stuff. End up in the tour manager's office. Like we're kids in high school, like in the principal's office about something we did to a security guard the day before. Like not hitting them with a piece of piano or a. or fencing or something.

You just slice this guy's back open with a piece of fence and he happens to be a civil attorney and he's working security as a moonlighter. And what the fuck's wrong with you guys? And it's like, well, let me go back to the attorney office. You know what I'm saying? He shouldn't have been standing there.

He should have been a king show of shit. You know what I'm saying? Put a little protection, a little armored on, I guess, if you're working the security. Go back to the law office. But it was just stuff like that, you know, every, it's just stupid kids not really knowing how things worked, you know. Not realizing that like, oh, whipping this broken drumstick into the crowd and impaling some girl in the forehead can turn into a lawsuit. Not like this chick comes backstage with a MS2 marching stick.

This isn't like your five A's or your five Bs, you know. This is this dude's a monster. So he throws a broken stick. That's probably two of these. Just right. right into a chick's face, looked like a prosthetic. She comes back, just soaked in blood. Like, I got messed up because I was staring up at the band,

and the lights blacked out in the arena. And when they blacked on, there's a fucking drumstick stuck in my face. And we're like, all right, that was it. Or just stupid stuff, you know. You want some merch? You want a t-shirt because we're not selling any in this arena. So we'll do just going crazy and wild, you know, kicked it. One time I remember this actually, this I actually feel bad about,

I don't feel bad about the attorney working security that got, you know, whatever. That's a grown man. Shane Luke Fence fell on his head. Yeah, the girl getting stabbed in the face. That was a little bit rough. I remember one time I kicked a damn mic stand, which I didn't mean to do this. but I always think about this because I never found the girl. And I always kind of meant to apologize.

But I had this heavy micstand. My mic stands are like over 100 pounds. That's why I can climb all the way up. I'm in shit because, and some of them are like 175 and stuff. The plate is like a steel plate from a drag racing car. And the pipe is like an axle from the drag racing car. So this mic stand, you could climb to the top of the micstand and stand on the top and just be good. I fucking kicked this stand so hard.

one time and it went flying and the plate at the bottom had this chick was taking a photo and it just took her head off oh no and uh i seen this video of it because um there was a video somewhere in the place and i was like god damn what a jackass why did i do that i didn't mean to do it i was doing the new metal stump or something right and i kicked my foot behind me and it sent the mic stand off the stage. So it's just stupid stuff like that that you would get in trouble for. Or, you know, people like doing what you did, like running up on the bus or something, we used to just beat their ass.

Like if someone came on, you know, that would be to jump them. Yeah. So stuff like that, you would get in, it was crazy that you'd get in trouble for that, right? It's because someone runs onto your bus and then you beat the shit out of them. And then you get busted by the tour. Like it was a, we supposed to invite him down and say, like, hey, yeah, you walked in, here's your drink, you know. Yeah. Do a meet and greet with them.

You know what I mean? They weren't, and these weren't fans or anything. It wasn't like a fan like, hey, I really love you guys and I want to meet you because then that would be. Even back then, we were nice to them. But just stuff like that, you don't really think about the situation when you're in it. So we kind of caused a little bit of trouble. but after a few tours you're kind of see how it works I guess and you're like you're not supposed to do that so now me personally I just stay out of everyone's business I took it to myself

I just queue to myself and could just go stay away from everyone which is pretty much the same thing we started off doing yeah we were doing worse to our own guys like so like for somebody to like walk up on the bus or like approach it's just the wrong way or whatever it was like dude like on that tour like I got in three different fights with our own crew yeah we fought each other because of friends and shit so like we'll fight each other and shit like that it's not really a big deal so that oh you got up drunk and pissed on my feet like in the middle of the night or you oh you like you're fucking up you point out you when you said you got up drunk I didn't get up somebody else but I wasn't drunk nor did I get up I'm just saying somebody else in the

crew like like these were the things like oh you're oh you're fucking up too much oh you're getting too wasted oh you're you know what I'm saying and just regulating it within ourselves. Like that was kind of one of the thing. It's like we have, yeah, we have a crew of 15. We're out on our first major tour,

you know, and we're trying to not be the fuck-ups that everyone thinks that we are. Which is funny because we're enforcing it with violence, which is pretty hilarious. But when you're 25, you're just kind of like, this guy's got to get his ass whooped.

But now we try to, you can't be doing that. You know, try to talk them, talk it down, I guess, or try to nip it in the bud. Try to talk to them. It's good. Try to have a conversation. This is a big set for you guys. It's really hard.

Man, King's growing up. Yeah, yeah. We're getting soft. Everyone's probably talking about, you know, how we're getting soft and weird. And, you know, they miss the old days, but I don't really miss the old days. I think as long as we keep making good shit, it's, all that stuff was kind of secondary. and ancillary to me. I never really thought it was that important.

I always thought, you know, this record is really awesome. And then the next one came out, I was like, oh, this record was really awesome too. And then the next one and the next one, it might sound like I'm feeling myself, but that's all I really ever cared about. It's like, you know, you can write up whatever story you want to write up,

but I think we keep making good records. So it's not, I don't know, it's not just a gimmick that, I guess. It's crazy that you guys bring up the imposter syndrome. It's so, it's, it's, it's very bizarre, me hearing that from a band like you. Yeah. Or even like these guys deal with that. Yeah.

To the outside, we, we, we, we look at, you know, bands like you, like they are literally the standard and the realist. You know, you guys are yourself, not only that, but like behind the scenes, which is a, people do not. realize how rare that it is. People just keep people that keep themselves that know who they are down to their bones and don't play the game, which a lot of bands play the game. And it's very obvious. Some more than others. So even to hear you guys say that, it's like, what?

Really? Yeah. You guys even dealt with that? I guess this is a little caveat to the imposter. I didn't feel like an imposter like I didn't belong on the stage with them. I felt like an imposter like I should have, I always felt bad. I write about this in a lot of songs.

It's not like, I'm not going to go off on an emotional tangent. It's the place for it. Okay, okay. I'll try to work up a few tears for you. Gene's next. Okay. But I always felt bad or like I didn't belong, but not because I knew I was born to rock,

and that's what I was always going to do, and that's what I'm going to do regardless. And I should be on the biggest stage with the biggest. bands. I knew that. I always known that. But I felt like I betray everyone by kind of leaving, you know, because, you know, like I said, I write about it a few times, but when you succeed and no one around you succeeds, it's kind of like survivor's guilt, I guess. You go on a tour and you come back and there's six people dead that weren't dead when you left. You didn't go to any of their funerals.

You didn't, because you were on a tour with a band. And then you start to wonder, is this really that important, stupid band with a stupid song, with a stupid album, with a stupid tour? And, but that happened for years, you know, just people dying and dying and dying and dying. And, well, it didn't happen for years. It's still happening right now.

That's what I feel like I was the worst with, was I'm in a place where I shouldn't be, not because I don't deserve good things, but I should be back home because maybe I could make a difference there and I'm not making any difference here. I'm just some guy on the tour. You know what I mean?

But I have these friends I'll never see again now because I wanted to go play around. It doesn't make any sense. I know there's not really a point to it. But you know what I mean? Because it was going to happen, how it was going to happen, that's like, you know, everything happens in divine time. So that's the way it was meant to be.

but I always thought imposter as in you're a street dude. You don't need to be on a tour or playing music or what it is. You need to be back with your gang doing whatever it is, wasting your life away. But after a few years, I realized that I was, this is where I was supposed to be, you know. But that's kind of the imposter. I guess Survivor's guilt is a better term for it, but you had. Survivor's guilt. Yeah, just kind of.

that thing was, that's where I guess I felt the most imposter, you know, because I was more concerned with J-Pay and Western Union's, this person, money, oh, this guy went to prison for 12 years while you're away, maybe you could have changed that. This guy just got stabbed to death or whatever it is, and he was hanging out with so-and-so that you wouldn't have really let that slide, and this guy just got shot here, and he was living at your place, so were they shooting at you?

you know, that type of thing. And I'm, and it seems really corny. But then we play a show and you're kind of like, dude, fuck this show, man. I don't care about this show. You kind of want to just get on the, you know, plane and just go home. And that's kind of where I was for about five years, maybe. Five years. Five years.

Yeah, probably seven years maybe, actually. The first few records, I was just like, what am I doing here? You're just kind of lying to yourself, I guess. if that makes any sense. Yeah, I thought about, you know, the band, I wonder if both your, both of your personalities and your lifestyle back home, I was wondering, like, if they weren't in the band,

I wonder they would be dead. Yeah. For me, yeah, 100%. Because there would, yeah, I'm positive of it. I could, yeah, I'm sure of it. I'm positive. What about you, Jane? I, yeah, I mean, I just can't really imagine a life outside of this.

Like, I don't, I don't see that picture. I don't see it going anywhere. I don't see my life really going, you know, anywhere. I mean, I did. I was kind of trying to do more of the right thing, I guess. Trying to stay out of the streets a bit. Tried college. Tried, you know, did okay academically.

Playing ice hockey. But, yeah, you know, I was, I was, but when I realized, want to do this was like the you know you kind of try to see the future if you're like your path where you're going to go down how your life's going to play out whatever and just there was no other picture you know i don't think yeah i don't i don't i think this thing has kept us alive one way or another whether it be out of the streets or uh dealing with depression you know stuff like you said like man all those like those first few years first few tours losing people people and not being able to do a damn thing about it, you know, getting a call at three in the

morning that, you know, one of my lifelong best friends little brother got shot delivering pizzas and having to fucking play a show the next day. It's just weird because you're never really doing that. We're always at home, you know what I mean? So if something was happening, when you get the call, you can go into action, you know what I mean? But you get a call in your own Australia. it's kind of like you can't just can't just be in the city though your whole life you could

always be you're kind of in the mix you know you can always be in the mix there's just I guess I don't know pretty sure it's the same for both of us but it's the first time that we were away we weren't we weren't world travelers before being in the band we didn't have passports and all this other shit we didn't have you know I come from a family that never took of it was single vacation so it wasn't it wasn't like we were doing things in the world And then, you know, this was just another thing that we did. It was we were always available, eternally available to people in the city. But then we weren't.

So to kind of circle back, like, I think in a way this has kept us alive or, you know, I may have ended up dead because if I would have been home to get news like that, I would have been in the streets looking for somebody. And I would have just gotten myself into some shit I didn't need to get into because anything I would have done. wasn't going to bring that person back, you know? But that's not how we think back home, you know, when you're there and the shit's popping off. Like, like you said, you jump into action. But being on the road, it's like, you know, now you're in this world where people don't react like that at all. You're not, other people aren't beating their friends' asses over, you know, disagreements or sliding somebody or, you know, any kind of wrongdoing. any kind of wrongdoing, you just kind of either look the other way.

You handle it another way. You probably handle it a more mature and responsible way. But in those years, that's not, that wasn't the mentality at all. So at least for, at that point in time in our lives, it probably was, it probably would have went the other way had we been home. You know, probably wouldn't have made it. That was my plan. That was my plan anyway.

I was just going to be trying to be gangpanging until death. I didn't have a, like a, never had a long-term plan. There was no plan for me. I was just in this stuff. That's my family and that's my friends, you know. So I'm not just like some asshole kid. You know, this is just, these were the people that I was raised by. So that's what I was going to do anyway.

And it wasn't, I didn't try my hand at trying to be a productive member of society ever. so unless I had to because of a probation or a house arrest or something like that you know but yeah I think it was always supposed to work out like this I think we were always supposed to come out the other end not that we're out the other end but we're moving through something some type of corridor and now I just accept the things for what they are and I just kind of know that I am supposed to be around doing whatever it is I'm doing you know I don't have any guilt or anything about that or any shame or or anything just kind of let it go so that's how you deal with survivor's guilt you accept being for like what what it is yeah you just kind of got to get

in touch with yourself I did you it took it took a few years but I've always been into things you know like meditation and yoga I got into yoga because I was fighting but I want to be flexible enough to kick someone's head off. But then I realized that it had other benefits and stuff like that. And so... A few other ones. Yeah. So just getting in touch with yourself and kind of going inside, you start to find answers that you don't necessarily need to go outside to find.

You don't necessarily have to pontificate. There's a cool saying that it says the brain thinks but the heart knows. So if you kind of find a way to get there. Yeah. I think that's the answer. So I started looking that way and things kind of became a lot clearer and I wasn't very confused and I didn't have these types of guilt or shame kind of structures happening. So escaping that was a big deal. And then I think the music kind of is going along in that direction as well.

And it was always there. Since I was a kid, I was like a 12-year-old Wiccan worshipping nature and stuff. But it's kind of less superficial. You know, the first record memoirs of a murder is like a memoir. So that's what that was. And it was not superficial in a shallow way, but superficial as in talking a lot about worldly matters, society, societal matters and stuff. But I think with every progressive record, it gets. it's more and more into the spirit.

And that's kind of the direction that it's heading is inward, kind of to the heart. So I don't even know what I was just talking about as far as the question that was asked. No, I'm just like, because I know what this is also one of my questions we could go into right now because you're very stream of consciousness kind of guy. So you don't write lyrics. Not really. No, and so You were

You were really into reading books Like you're talking one to three a week You go into a diner for 12 hours Which is pots and coffee or going Or it seems like you really found your sanctuary At the library Yeah

And he was go there and just just read So I was curious like how to Because maybe I assume you're inspired by like Jay-Z Or like little Wayne like how you're just going to go into write songs and then you're not going to write anything down and you and you were you already done research on long-term memory and then reciting in palms right yeah okay and i it was kind of obvious because we can all remember the songs we like so you just have to kind of write a song you like and it becomes really easy

I know that sounds funny and stupid But there's a reason why all the Eastern wisdom Not that I'm an Eastern guru But it's like four words and it's common sense And we're like yeah we all know that But it doesn't really need to get more complicated than that If you can write a good song that you like You could probably memorize your own song

More than you can probably memorize Taylor Swift's You know So maybe if you can't memorize your song That ain't the one you should let that one go. If you can't memorize it, then you know, maybe instinctually, like, okay, maybe this doesn't have, like, the weight. I think so. Because when I was a kid, it was just necessity.

I didn't carry around a pen and notepad or whatever trying to look for lyrics. You know, I was living in a dumpster behind Little Caesars waiting for them to throw out their orders. So that really wasn't on my bucket, on my list of things to do. so I would just try to write songs that I could remember. I also had all the time in the world on my hand, so I could repeat them so much that I could remember of and then maybe fool myself into thinking they were so good, they were catchy, but really they were just drilled into my brain.

But yeah, I've heard that from a bunch of people, actually. See ya. The singer, see ya, she'll write for 60 minutes. And if there's nothing to remember, there's nothing to remember. but I'm not very precious with my stuff. I sit down to write every day, but if I lose something, if I don't put it down,

if I don't keep track of it, because I don't keep track of anything really that well, I'm not really that stressed about it because I know it'll come back or it'll find me when it's supposed to find me kind of thing. I don't, I'm not, I don't have this famine mentality where I try to strangle ideas

because I just thought of the next world, life-changing song or anything. I just let things go that need to kind of just let stuff pass through me, I guess, if that makes sense. And it'll come back around if it's supposed to come back around. So you have the lyrics, the concept, even the patterns. Is this all plain in your mind? Yeah.

That's fucking crazy. That's where the schizophrenia comes in, I think. it's something it's pretty cool I don't think about it any other way though I don't I can't imagine this might sound like I'm dissing other people but there's no way in hell

I would ever be in a group that wrote a piece of music and said put lyrics to this that's never gonna that is fuck that I'm not being in your group if you do that because that you're do not pass go do not collect $200 with that

so when you say writing. You're writing for 60 minutes. What are you doing? Coming up with everything that has to be came up with. Are you just sitting down and thinking? Oh, getting out of the way. Because sometimes walking.

Sometimes walking. Yeah, when I say writing, I don't really mean writing. I mean getting out of the way. That's the only way I can put it. Getting out of the way? Yeah. What does that mean? Just letting stuff come.

Like right now we sat down and have a podcast. We know that's what we're doing and you and I are on the same page and we're talking. I sit down to write without a pen or anything and an intention or any type of preconceived notion or goal or, you know, whatever it is, and just move my ego, stupid self out of the way and let something come, you know. Because that's, I think, the way ideas work, obviously. We all know the ideas aren't really stored in our brains. We just get access to them. And I think if you can get out of the way, things will come.

And everything's special individually, but also there's a reason why many different people across the world have the same idea at the same time. It's just... I always wonder, what is that? I think the ideas are just floating around. And if you can get out of the way, then you'll... You find a way to interpret them or find a way to... for them to pass through you. I think that's the way it works.

I don't believe I came up with any ideas. I don't believe you did either, no offense. But I just don't, that's not the way things work. No, I'm still trying to process that. You know, where, where did this come from? You know? Yeah. Or similar to if you're thinking about someone, they'll text you.

Or if you're, oh, if you have an idea, you see like another, someone else do it, like very, very, like the timeline is very close. of like what? Yeah. What is that? The goofballs and the intellectual disease that they might have in science and determinism and materialism, they'll just call it coincidence because that's the God that they worship is coincidence.

But no, I think all the ideas are somewhere and we just have temporary access to them. And it's up for us to seize them. You might have an idea for a world changing invention and you didn't seize it. But when someone else gets idea to that, access to that idea. And they sees it. Then they change the world. It doesn't have to be changing the world.

It can just be a song. Like stairway to heaven. That's kind of what Robert Plant said. He's sitting there for a minute. And then he woke up and it was on the page kind of thing. I think that's really how inspired stuff comes. I think when you try, it's just not it. It's cool to work together to have some intentions and stuff like that.

getting out of the way is my most useful thing, I guess. Getting out of it. We're always in our own way. Yeah. We're always in our own way. So that's a great way to put that. I don't think there's any thinking involved in creativity or inspiration. I don't think it comes from the brain.

It's the brain, again, just thinks. That's just not how it works. Yeah. I don't know. They call that the reasoning in mind. Yeah. rational mind yes yes and that and that's a death of some pretty sick shit i think so i think creativity is not really supposed to be rationalized i think rationalized is actually an insult so

yeah i don't i don't it's just not how i do it so thinking about things it's more than lyrics i guess it'd be when i start to think about a song i consider almost like clay pottery wheel where you're you're trying to mold the character, the identity of the song, not me, saying lyrics, not my own character or my own personality, but you're trying to find the character of the song, like the color of the song, or the movie of the song, or the texture, or what it might feel like, or smell like, or sound like, or the proprioception of the song, or the kinetic energy of the song. So you're trying to build this character before you're making a noise or playing around on your stupid instrument or doing your voice or whatever.

writing your little dumb words. You're trying to find a personality, I guess, a character worth writing about. And I don't mean character as in a thing, a person-placed or thing, like a noun. I mean character as in a thing to express or explore. And that takes more work to me than trying to pen some lyrics or write some notes.

finding that thing or letting that thing come to you. The notes and the words are the absolute easiest thing. Those come in five minutes. It's everything else. I'd rather sit for 55 minutes and just try to get a clear head than try to crank out some verbiage, you know. I want to go with that. I never heard someone's process like that.

Really? No. I mean, you mentioned that So King started In December 2007, correct? Dude, you must have been writing a lot of shit about this band Because you keep saying shit that I forgot. Nobody gets that right, yeah, nobody really knows that I mean, because we actually existed as a band for like six months

Before we even played our first show And our first show was in the living room of a crack house Yeah, it's crazy, dude So, so yeah, so King starts that year the following month of January and 08 your unit gets rated and then and then

that's supposedly when you write the first king's song yeah correct and what you didn't go you guys didn't go too far into it because you it said that that's one of the best things that could have happened to you why yeah so I think sometimes you're just supposed to

it's kind of like getting out of the way. I think sometimes, not sometimes, all the time, stuff is being shown to you that you need to pay attention to, which is why you should try to keep a quiet mind. And I think if you ignore that enough,

it's going to force itself on you. You know what I mean? I think I was trying to be shown something repeatedly and I wasn't listening. So there's like, I'm going to sit you down then and so you can't do anything but listen. right? I think that's the truth. I've had that happen to me a zillion times. And then I realize

when it's usually always involves a slowing of down of something. I think if you can't, I think, again, you're always being shown something. And I think there's always a clear path in front of you. I think you're the only one that complicates your own path, which is fine because we all do it. And I don't have all the answers either. But I think if you don't listen to the cues and the serendipities and the synchronicities and the signs of the universe that they're trying to give to you, I think they get more aggressive and then they force you to listen, you know, and that's what that was. That was a sit down. You're going to have to pay attention because you're going to be put into a solitary confinement and you're not going to have any other choice. And you might, you know,

think you're cool for a day or two, but I'm going to sit you there long enough to where you understand that this is what you know you need to understand and I've been trying to show it to you but you weren't listening and so now not since then because I always make errors and mistakes and all this stuff but I try to be more aware of I believe the universe starts off in the most subtle way and so you should be sensitive to that and I try to not let I try to not let it get to the extreme part or where it comes into tragedy and death and stuff like that or massive setbacks because it doesn't have to come to that. If you're just a little bit aware and sensitive to the environment, I think you could pick

up on a lot of things that you could otherwise prevent a lot of tragedies and disasters for yourself, maybe for others too. I don't know. I'm not, I don't think people have much to do with other people. but I'm just talking about for my own personal thing, you know? Mm-hmm. I think I was sat down because I had to sit down and that was what it was. Getting mad about it is like the, it's the wrong answer, you know?

That's what people usually do. Any emotional reaction that you have is kind of the wrong thing. If your reaction is emotion, that's not a reaction because it's not a plan. An emotion is just an emotion. So it's okay to feel these types of things about this stuff. But if you get sat the fuck down, and being pissed off as the result, you're going to be there for a long time.

And if you get let out, you're going right back in. That's how it works. That's just talking about jail. We don't have to talk about jail at all. We can be talking about anything in life, you know. It could be a job or a relationship or a hobby or a... I mean, you know how it is. You know, you guys had suicide status.

Allow me to flip. Let me take control of this whole podcast. You know, you guys had Mitch and everything. and these things happen. And I'm sure you sat and thought, what, why did this happen? There doesn't have to be an answer, but where would it have it went otherwise? Or what, it sounds callous to say, but what good has came or what did I learn or what, what am I privy to or what, how did this change my own trajectory, which also sounds selfish.

But I'm just, I don't think it is. it's what did this kind of bestow upon me or why did this happen and and you if you start to think about it you start to find these strange things you know but that's you that's your own thing you literally said every thought has sat down for a long long periods of time do a course of years yeah you know different moments you get conspirers sometimes sit and think or walk yeah yeah all these all these questions kind of flood in when you know you just you just reminded me yeah you just you just give room yeah give room and things that you things that were they're just in your subconscious to start to flood out or they'll come up

completely unannounced you'll be sitting there one day and then something comes you're like i think in moments like that you should stop and kind of think that came for a reason And it wasn't just for me to have a chuckle. It was, I should, I should think about this some more, maybe. It's hard to make time. It's not hard, but it's actually not hard. It says you just have to force your fucking stupid body. Yeah.

Just to sit and do nothing. It's a little counterintuitive the way that they got things set up with, you know, you got the phone and you got the internet and you got the whatever. And it's all kind of instant gratification. And it's all like very low-hanging fruit. Very. I find myself trying to do things. I'm just slowly deleting apps or just slowly doing things that I used to do in the phone.

Just simple stuff like, you know, I always use my timer on the phone to make me coffee in the morning. Okay. So, but that's like, that's like you time. I'm on my phone during my time. That's not good. The little things added up. Like, okay, I'll get a fucking actual timer. Yeah.

It does. And it helps. It helps. It does help. The phone is so pervasive. And everyone, it's kind of played out. Everyone's talking about it. It's actually sad because everyone knows that it's a joke,

but everyone partakes in it. You'll find that the phone somehow has worked its way into everything, you know, making a coffee and doing whatever, it somehow became included in being the timer, which, you know, on the other hand, it's useful and convenient and everything, but convenience is not the God we should be worshipping. You know, convenience is actually,

like a subtle way to die, you know. That's it. Boom. That's good. Well, let's get back to King. So you met a, so, so you were jamming in Benio and then eventually Gene walks in, right? Kind of. We would, was, I don't know who was there first.

The first time I ever met this dude, I told this story before, but. We have different sides of this story, but I'll let him tell his. Okay. I liked this chick. I was out of school. I didn't have to go to school. No one made me go to school. I was completely unsupervised.

And I had no, my parents, my family, they were kind of absent. So I could just do whatever I wanted. And I didn't go to school. I was a teenager. And I liked this chick that went to his school. So I would just, I'm just a scrub. I would pop up at the lunch break. It was the lunch break or something.

Yeah. At the lunch recess. the recess or whatever. I would pop up to hang out with the chick because I didn't go to that school. I didn't go to that school ever. But I would go to see her and I would peep Jean around the yard.

It was like a building with a yard in the middle. Around the yard. But we didn't really hang out or talk very much. I was just coming to hang with the girl. I was there for strictly business. And I wanted to hang out and I didn't have any.

I wasn't like networking. I still wasn't networking then. So I was just coming to, see and then I would kind of dip I don't know what his side of the story is but yeah he didn't have any business there he was over there my school she was the new chick to the school too you know what I'm saying so everybody's talking

about like oh who's the new girl who's the new girl whatever whatever and then like before anybody could even take a crack at her here's this guy just posted up by the tree outside just being all cool like cool mysterious goth kid I was cool dick Willie too they would I was um they would get let out

for their recess I was already there posted up on the tree like what's going on baby that type of thing but I was just I wasn't really cool Dick Willie because I was gothed out to the to the nines you know what I mean it was just like Manson and um all that type of era where like I said I was like a teenage witch so I was just in that mode where I was um just looking pretty fucking wild but jean was looking wild too that's why I noticed it because You know, goths kind of always, you know, goths. They're always looking for the next goth to call a poser.

So I was always kind of keeping game, but I was also trying to hang out with the chicks, you know. Because I wasn't really a typical goth. I loved fighting still. And I loved to get into fights. And just because I was stupid and had problems with them. So I tried to just take them out on other people. And fighting girls, jamming, rocking, whatever. Not fighting girls.

Oh, sorry. Don't get that sound bite It's like fighting girls Because I said fighting girls Yeah But it was fighting comma Or fuck it put a semicolon And then girls and then another semicolon

But yeah That was the first time I seen Gene But I didn't really talk to him Or even bother because I was Doing that But then I went to this Club downtown To watch shows

And I was like a I was very young 13 or 12 or something And Gene went to the same place and knew kind of some of the same people, I think it was. It was kind of, well, it was that girl that kind of like, she was like, she was like, oh, I'm going down to, she was the one that got me going to go local. She's like, oh, you should come down to the local, like, whatever, I didn't even know about it. You know what I'm saying?

At this point in my life, like, I'm just finding my own, my own music because I grew up listening to what my uncles and my mom and my grandmother listened to. And everything's very mainstream, you know, whatever. And then, you know, stuff like rage and. corn and limp biscuit come out and that's what i'm gravitating towards and then this chick you know who i talked to and has common interest is like oh you should come down to the local so i go down there and this is like my first experience in the local music scene and then i see this fucking guy because i was down there trying to secure the chicks too right so i was trying to secure a lot of shit around town and and my attitude was like yours that you said earlier about us getting the

slip, not in quarantine, and you're like, fuck those guys because I want to be, that's what, you know what I'm saying? And I was like, fuck this guy because like he's out here macking at my school. And like, and he seems cool, you know,

like he's got out like, yeah, I want to call him a poser, but his shit is legit, you know. Because I got the white powder face looking like the crow. Duck tape in his hair and shit. I got long duct tape dreds down to my shoulders and my shit's like black and white beat it out,

you know, and I'm just, everyone's a poser to me. You know, I'm looking like Manson himself just on a regular Tuesday, you know, and I'm like in the craft thinking I'm my whole life is, you know, I'm worshipping trees and shit and doing all this other shit. So I'm like everyone's a poser. I'm the man. Although I know that's not true. Yeah, just for the record. But that's kind of was my attitude was like, I'm going to live this shit out.

I always say kind of like in the sandlot. You know in the sandlot, the movie where the Mexican kid is the one that. goes pro and he's like the best one he's always like focused i always thought my shitty friend group was it just a bunch of degenerate reprobates i was always like i always felt like i was that guy even though again i don't think i'm cool or nothing i was just thinking you guys are dicking around partying drinking doing drugs doing whatever i'm going to the big leagues you know i'm i'm the mexican guy although that's obviously not true that's going to go pro you know what i'm saying and the rest of the kids they kind of grow up and get jobs

And I was thinking, not me. You can do all this stupid shit. You can have these girlfriends. You can have this, you know, these shitty job, this shitty life that you want. And if you want it, you know, that's cool. But you can make all these compromises and you can go party and go to college or whatever. But I am here to rock. So I was, that's why I was so goth and shitty.

And I thought everyone was a poser because they were like going to school. And I'm like, school? Who the hell went to school? we're supposed to be rocking. You know what I mean? I'm like in the D. Snyder video. I want to rock and everyone else was just part-time, I thought. But I was also delusional because I was 13.

So why wouldn't I be delusional? But he had the right idea and that kind of gravitated me towards him, you know? Like I saw that like, you know, like this guy's, you know, I'm just starting to, not only am I just getting in the local music scene, but I'm starting to, I picked up a guitar. Like my uncle left some old dusty crusty guitar, you know, and he moved out, and I'd take it and pick it up. And I just start doing whatever I can with it. For the first year of my even playing an instrument, I didn't have like an amp or anything, barely had strings on the fucking thing. You know what I'm saying?

And I'm just like trying to play Seek and Destroy. And then we started playing together like shortly after. We were trying to work at the place. I was trying to work at the place because I was trying to go to every show for free and get 20 bucks. Yeah. They were paying $20. So I was like, yeah, I need that 20. To run some cables, yellow stage manager.

Yeah. And so he was doing the same thing. And so we both ended up working there. But then we started jamming. And this is like a recap because I realize we're taking a 10 minute answer something so simple. And that's what we're supposed to do here. Okay, okay. Well, a few years.

Yeah, yeah. It was a few years. We were just jamming together. And I was so poor. I was living in the place without him knowing. I was, we had a practice space that we got in their damn basement or something. And I low-key brought a microwave. I was down in that bitch with pizza rolls, living in there with no house.

And I'm like, yeah, well, I can live in the practice space. My shit's going to be way more dope because everyone else goes home after the show. And I'm dragging amps up to the stage. There's no one even there, right? It's close. I'm popping the PA, blowing out speakers, turning it on when no one's there. I'm rocking a show on stage with no one in the venue at 2 a.m. Thinking, I'm playing cold chamber and shit, pantomiming, thinking like, yeah,

then I'm going to go talk to the crowd, which I obviously didn't do very well at because I don't talk to the crowd. But I would do this for like years. And then I'd lug it all back down. I don't know why I brought all the gear up to stairs, by the way, because it was just, I would set up keyboards and shit and drum sets, like running like a real stage and rock it all night. I'm like, yeah, if I rock this bitch all night, I'm going to be way better than these guys.

These guys are going home. They probably eat dinner and shit. I got a bag of pizza rolls. I'm going to rock this bitch all night. And I would do that. And then we kind of made a band and it sucked. And then we made like another one and it sucked. And our band sucked for ever for at least a decade.

But we played. played hundreds of shows, which is pretty rare these days. I notice people get in bands and without doing anything now. It's pretty weird. We were really grinding it out. And we always stuck together through it all. I, like, through all these other bands, it was always like, hey, I'm going to do this thing or I'm linking up with these guys.

Like, you want to come or that was the deal, you know? Like, oh, like you want me to play with you guys? Well, he's got to come too. Yeah, that was the deal when I came into the end of the, into the band. I was like, I got this friend Gene. He's got to be in this band. I'm not going to be in the band alone with you nerds.

And so that was how we made this band. And it's been that ever since. Pretty cool. When did a runner come in a picture? About six years later, maybe about 13-ish. Yeah, 2013. We started talking to them, 2013, even though we didn't really break. out until 2014.

I think we signed a deal in 13. Yeah. And we spent a year doing our like just, I think they kind of, I think they kind of wanted to wait and see what we would do in a year, make sure we wouldn't like get killed or something. Yeah. Because they may just get health insurance and shit because I was getting shot and lying to them that I was not telling them.

And then they would find out. And they're like, yo, what are you doing? And I'm like, I got lead poisoning. I got poisoning or something. I would just say some goofy shit. And they're like, yo, you're getting shot and shit and you're signed to us. But really, I should have just been like, I don't give a fuck. Do you care?

Do you think I care about the Russian billionaire that owns your label? You know what I mean? Wow. But at the same time, I kind of understand. They're trying to get their investments in order. But they're like, yo, you guys don't have insurance. We got to get you insurance. And then when I see the statement, I'm like, take me off this insurance, man.

I ain't paying this damn funny monopoly money for this, you know. enforced scheme, scam of the quasi-governmental organization that is insurance of agencies. But yeah, it was all that stuff. So then around 13, we recorded our record with our friend, which was pretty cool. They let us do anything we wanted, really. Hats off to them. They were worried about us getting shot shit like that, but that's kind of a given. They would try to guide us, you know, and they would, you know,

impart some wisdom of how the industry works and everything. But, yeah, they gave us kind of free reign to just do what they signed us for. It was cool. They let us record with someone that had no track record at his house, in his apartment. They're like, ooh, don't you want to work with this guy? Don't you want to name all these big names? Yeah, every big name in metal.

So we're meeting all these jokers. And it's like, no, this guy's a dweeb. You think I care about this? Guys talking about settings. Yeah, he wants to make a new preamp or some shit. I'm like, I'd rather hang out this Canadian guy, which is sad, I know. But he's awesome. He's one of our closest friends.

I believe he's a member of the band. I don't know if he knows that yet, and he's definitely not getting any publishing. But he is. And so they let him do the record, which is awesome. He's done every record we've done. Yeah, Josh Schroeder is a G, man. Yeah, he's the best. I don't want to.

make a record with anyone else so we always bust his shit about the house the king built because now he does every lorne ashore he does just all these huge things and it's like oh yeah everybody wants to come to you because they want that that that king saw yeah i was trying to be like king even even successful right yeah everyone's trying to sound like king everyone wants to be like king yeah that's why we we're trying to get discounts and we're trying to get little rebates from josh i'm like yo I'm trying to print off a rebate and have them sign it for free studio time because I, you know, I've single-handedly fielded three dozen projects of his and they don't want to admit it and neither does he, but I know I'm the real source of this shit because I got the sauce and the juice that

they're never going to be able to find in those settings and those dials. You're just not going to get it. And he's got to give me a rebate and he's got to give us both a promo code and smash that like button and subscribe. And we need a discount on the studio time because I know damn well. these kids are recording these albums in their rooms and the jigs up. I have the time feel like it's the Truman Show. You know when you go to Josh's house, all that shit that's Fugasey. If you lean on it,

it just falls down because it's fake. It's like interfaces and all that shit. I see you've got a real one right there flashing real lights. His shit is just a poster board with a fake Furman and a fake distresser. And I know if I punch it, it'll just break like a piece of paper and he is, the jig

is up. You might be able to get that Lorner Shore money and all that other shit you're doing over there. You might be able to do that. I'll point at all you cameras. You're not getting this, hitting this lick on us. We need rebates.

And I need promo codes and punch you in for half off Black Friday. When you rebates and promo codes. That's because, you know, but it's too much, too much, man. Price needs to go down. Do you ever heard of recession?

You know what I mean? I'm waiting for these engineers to recess. I'm waiting for these promoters to recess. You know what I mean? I know you didn't ask anything about. that but that's the I'm trying to get a ball busting I'm trying to get a pro okay good yeah that's yeah okay you I'm trying to get you one too man so don't worry it's for both throwing one one one extra yeah I would appreciate we need that we need a

discount because thank you know the shit ain't free no you know we got candles over here and this shit is burnt all the way down it is we in this shit's expensive we need more wax my man some new candles you know what I mean it's Kurt you know we're not gonna throw it out or anything but we do need some new shit and this shit's We need new shit here. I need like a life promo code. Yeah, we need a discount. So I know you're listening.

Garza needs a shit. I need my shit. And Garza needs to do a, and you need to do a record for free for Garza. I appreciate that, man. Thank you. So this goes back to where, how you come up with songs.

So obviously, there's Roadrunner involved, Josh. I was curious to your perspective, Gene. So, okay, we're going to do like this record. we're getting out of Flint like it's happening and this and this dude walks in with no lyrics oh I was I was already used to I've been I've been you're always up so it was even

like you were already used to this one the first time hell no like bro I remember this guy one time one time he tried to keep a notebook lost that motherfucker I'm like left it on the roof of the fucking van just gone like it teaches you what to do what not to get

and out of the way in the universe and the stuff like that. I had this notebook. I was like, look at this is cool. I got a notebook where I'm keeping all the files. And I'm saying wrote the whole album, right? The first album. Wrote the whole first album. And one time I was leaving somewhere and I set it on the roof of a car and drove off.

And that was the end of it. So the whole album is gone. And then I was like, that's kind of like going to jail or whatever it might be. This is a little bit more of a user-friendly scenario. but that was when I realized, you don't get a notebook, dude. You know what I mean? You're not supposed to have a notebook.

You got a notebook between the ears, and that motherfucker has more pages than any notebook on earth. And that's free to carry around. So I was thinking, no, never again. I'm not losing papers and shit, you know. If I, that's not the way.

It's not the answer. So I just didn't do it. Yeah. So I was like, all right. you know and then and now I'm in for the surprise you know I mean we talk about you know know what you know what's gonna go on whatever but like there was always something magical I mean it still is now but you you know especially on that first record when the tracking is there you know we've got the song what what it's gonna be we know what

it's gonna be we've demoed it we've practiced it everything whatever but when we track it and he goes in to track the vocals and you hear that first take that first boom, he hits it. It's like there's something magical that happens in there, partly because he's just fucking good. And partly because you don't, you don't know, you don't even know if he knows what's going to flow out of him when he goes in there.

Of course I'll say I do know. Of course you do. Right. But I don't really know if that's true. So, as long as done. Just show up. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I'll say that.

And it will be when I go in there, but it's not always true. that it's done funny little anecdote so we did a demo before that album before Midwest Monsters actually which was an EP we did you know

in the very early stages of the band with the only thing we did with like another guy and it was just kind of like a that was what Roadrunner found us from was the Midwest Monsters EP

and we just kind of did that as like we didn't have anything. We didn't have anything physical. No physical music out there. So we're like, you know, you've been playing these shows, playing a hundred shows for, you know, or a harshity friends and stuff. Like, we need to give them something to jam. So we did. So we did this demo. Our friends need this shit. Yeah. Our friends need their shit too. So they need something put in their CD player because they just stole a car and it has a pioneer and you can put a disc in there.

So we need to create this disc. Yeah. So we did this demo for dragging knives and Rama. And I was in the room with him. He's doing vocals in this room, and I was in there, like, recording him because back then, even though we were trying to get, like, all this footage and stuff, like, because we always wanted to make the cool. It was also pretty crazy because when you remember back then,

because we're the same age, the shit was like special, you know? If you were going to the studio, you didn't have one in your room. You were paying probably a lot. That's why we need these rebates. You were paying a lot then, and it was a big deal, and you didn't have any money. And so you scrape together this money and you're like, yeah, we're going to do something.

You thought you were important and cool and everything was going to be cool. So we were trying to get nowadays they just get content. We were trying to be like, this is it. You know, this is like VH1 behind the music. We were so delusional. But it's it's Kiladelphia. It's everything. Yeah, right, right.

We're just making shit up. But I'm in the room with him when he's recording Brahma. the demo version for the first time, man. And I'll never forget it, dude. This guy stripped down to his fucking underwear. He's got the fuck, I don't even know what that mic was. He's got it in his hand. Piece of shit.

He's not, you know what I'm saying? He's not doing it, like just standing there, like, you know, like a professional. He's running around the room like a fucking madman. He's beat fucking red looking like a demon. And there was just like an energy in that room that I've honestly never felt. Not to like bullshit, gas him up. Like whatever.

Like, no. Like that, and that was like a real, like, that was the first. There was some other king shit, but like that was like the first. Like, this is, this is us. This is it. This is what it's going to be, what we're going to be. And that fucking feeling in that room, man, was like electric. I also don't sit in the room with him when he does vocals anymore.

You don't? Because there was just, there was something else present. There was something else present. I like to do a little ritual beforehand. Which I won't do here, but obviously, because I'm not trying to turn your studio into a fucking freak factory. But it's, that's the name of the studio. This is the freak factory. Yeah.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. It's free. Yeah. It's free. I just got out of the way. It just came. But yeah, that's it.

And I really appreciate that. Yeah. So there was an energy in that room, man, that was just otherworldly. Yeah. What, like, just powerful. like God or like evil both this didn't have it wasn't yeah it wasn't

binary yeah it wasn't like yeah it wasn't like yeah it wasn't like it wasn't like it wasn't like it wasn't like it wasn't like a fear or anything you know what I'm saying like that like it didn't feel like malevolent nor did it feel benevolent it was just just an energy in the room with us that I was just like I walked out and I was just like I've never experienced anything like that in my life and now like I trusted him before you know always trusted him with my life this is my best friend's my brother like

anytime since we were because we first met he said yo we're about to go fucking hit a lick on this Kmart and I went I don't know why I did that so I see him walking out of street one day and I was like yo which he was pretty good you know he was sticking out of trouble and shit and not doing anything crazy at the time but I was always ready to go at a moment's notice. But he was ready to go for some reason.

I don't know why. I should have never did this, but I was a teenager. And me and my crew, we're going to rob Kmart. So we're like, are you in or not? I don't know why we asked this. We didn't need extra people. We didn't need, we had the crew. We were assembled.

We were going to do this. We're like, this is what you do. Maybe I did have a little bit of reservation because I was like, listen, man, we're going to rob the Kmart. you, your job is too. And we talk about this not because it's cool. It's not cool. Yeah, don't do this shit. This is so stupid.

It's also funny to say because we got busted doing it. So like when you read the book and you're like, there's all this shit in there that's illegal, we got busted doing everything. So I'm not really saying it to be cool or that that's the answer. It's because not. Obviously, if you want to be anything like me, you got problems. So I'm just saying it because it's There's real consequences and it sucks Also because it's like public record

You know what I mean? We went to jail for all this stuff So it's not I'm not like outing the criminal lifestyle It's also not very serious So we're going to rob the Kmart and we see him Just walking down the street or driving And we're like this is what you do You walk in

You know when you go to a grocery store where you walk in in the entrance, it has automatic doors and you come in, but the exit is a one-way automatic. Like you can't go in the exit because it doesn't open. You have the registers there blocking. So I was like, this is what you need to do. You need to act like you're entering

so we can exit without having to leap over the counter, the line with the cashier, whatever that's called. the thing, the checkout. It's like if you walk in, right when you see us coming, we're going to get right out that entrance and we're going to be gone. So we jacked the Kmart.

You're so dumb. I know you're going to say, too. This shit is fucking three stooges. Me and my boys, hauling ass. We're flying out the damn thing. He walks in right on time. They don't know he's with us. The plan is you act like you're just some customer

coming in. We blow by him. And he's like, what the hell kind of thing? Then they don't even chase him. This dude is mentally retarded. He took off running like he was one of the guys. I couldn't leave my boys. I couldn't leave my boys? I didn't have to run too. The whole plan was like

you walk in, you act like you're just some customer and you just set off the door for some thieves. And you just play your part. That's your character, right? And he changed his whole character art live. That shit. Without Out the door as soon as I seen him and his brother come running out of the road.

I was like, all right, we're gone. We were hauling ass, and this is where the Three Stooges shit comes in. A cop was parked outside. On a break. She was on a break or some shit. And we run right across the front of her car, and security's chasing us, the security from the Kmart or whatever it might be. And I'm running miles.

I'm like, I ain't going back to. You know, I'm getting away. You guys might be getting caught. I look over. I see him running across the street. I'm like, what the fuck is he trying to run for? He's fucking up the plan. I see him getting busted.

And then I look back. My brother's punching this security guy in the face. His idea was I can just beat their ass. You know, because a lot of people, when they're doing something wrong, you know, you're doing something wrong. You know what's wrong. So you run. My brother's not like that. He's like, if security,

chases me, I'm turning around and clocking them, letting them know, like, I can't be chased. So he did that. He did that move. So he's beating their ass. And the security guards are getting their ass whooped. I'm getting away with one of my other friends. And then the cop comes. And I don't know. Someone must have called for backup or something because I turned around and seen my brother getting arrested. And the security guys running around with little knots on his head. And I'm like, oh, my brother got arrested. And we don't even have a house. I'm like, I'm going to have to go back because this fool, I'm going to lose him if I, if I don't go back. I don't even know what's going on.

Gene's running around. They got these sirens and shit. It's a whole funny story. And I'm like, my other friend, me and him were running. I was like, yo, just keep going. I'm going to go back because they got my brother. And I don't even know how he's going to handle it or whatever. He might be going to Juvie or something or I might be going with him or something like that.

but we didn't really have a plan. So I was just made a decision in the moment. I'm going to go back, get arrested, and see where they're going to take him. But just getting back to the story, I don't know why he fucked up the plan, but he was always down for this shit that I don't know why. I would have been like, you guys suck. I'm not fucking, at least not going to run with you. But it's been a lot of things that probably been against my better judgment.

but once him and the rest of the crew were my guys like they're just they're my guys like he said like how he felt about like he's not leaving his brother behind is how I felt about them and how I felt about him and just and why we've stuck together

and all these bands and everything and that's you know so to bring this full circle like that mentality that that feelings like how I feel when he walks in and he doesn't have lyrics and he doesn't have, you know, a plan written down or whatever

because, like, I know he's, as he says, he's going to get out of the way and whatever comes, whatever flows through him is going to be the right thing. Yeah. Not like I'm lazy, though. I do do some research and stuff. You know, if there's a piece of music or whatever,

I do, like, let it percolate in my mind. I don't beat on it. I listen to it and memorize it, and then I kind of like let it go. And then the answer kind of comes back when it's supposed to. And if it doesn't come back, I never believe it that it's not returning. I just think that it's taking its time to come back on the right time. Taking its time.

Wow. It makes sense. It sounds like, yeah, you guys just trust each other and had each other's back, especially in the area of the country where that's like everything. And like you guys also grew up at a time where you have to have like, where I don't even know, but like you have, you had to have, like, trust where, like, you're, like, you'll be hanging out in, like, a dryway, and then you see, and the acquaintance get shot by someone in the car, and then you get questioned by the cops, and he, you don't say shit. Yeah. That's just, that, that, that, that's just the kind of upbringing that, that, that, that you have. No one, no one is going to rat someone, someone else out.

Yeah. That's usually how it goes. Some people do, but those people are also part of it. You know, it's just part of the ecosystem. just to circle back to some of the earlier stuff we were talking about. It's good to separate that type of stuff, but it's also good not to get emotionally evolved because you know some people are going to rat you out. And that's just part of it. Just like the police are a part of it. If you're doing the wrong thing,

you know, if you're not doing the wrong thing, then you probably have other problems with relationships or family life or whatever you might have. Everyone has their own thing, but it's all part of a, the balance, I think, you know. The reason why, you know, crime pays is because you have to get around the obstacle of the law. Some people do.

Like, I mean, if you're a politician, you don't have to get around anything. You can just do whatever you want. But down here in the Pleb lands, you know, you have these equalizers called the police, or then you have the rats and you have the people with no integrity and stuff like that. So it all just equals itself out, I think. That's why there's no real reason to be emotional. or concerned or react all crazy because it's just what it is you know it's part of it and if you know that going in it kind of makes things easier it's kind of like if you're going into a fight and you're

kind of already accept that you're going to get hit the fight's a little bit easier because he's just like cat william has the joke about if you ride you're going to fall because he's talking about getting a motorcycle and he's he's talking to one of his friends like trying to get a motorcycle da da da da da And his friend's like, if you ride, you're going to fall. And he's like, what? But I really think people don't really think like that. You know? No.

It makes it a lot easier if you go into a situation where you're thinking, I'm going to fall. Or, you know, if you go into a fight thinking, I should probably be able to take some hits. Maybe I can only take five instead of 10 or something. Or if you go into a situation where you're like, jail and death are a part of this situation, so if I accept that

it's not going to catch me off guard it's not like diving in the deep end when you don't know how to swim you know it's the deep end and you know you don't know how to swim so you should just stay your ass in the spot you're supposed to be in you know what I mean so I've always accepted that anyway

because my whole family's into that scene so I've seen it since I was a kid it's not anything new but accepting it's a big yeah it's a big one it's hard to do yeah it's cool accept it I'm gonna get fucking punching the face. Do you ever know, do you have, you know, you both have such like a high IQ as far as like the street smarts?

I just don't, I just don't know what, what that's like and what can you like step out like, okay, they will part of your rat. Can you like, is there like something kind of goes off? Is there like a, oh, hey, wait, maybe like maybe like a character. Yeah, so like the character flaw that I, that I sense. it's, I see it a lot in the way people, the way you see people interact with other people, how they treat people around them, how they treat people that they make people act like certain people are below them, stuff like that, you know, kind of. I, well, there's two categories.

Like we were talking about at the beginning with the band. It's like these are people in this world. I don't run that analysis, that little mental. background check on them. I'm not I'm not running scan you at this moment because I'm not going to get involved with you like that so that's over with and it's done it's not worth it so that's just I'm I use my energy on people in that world that you know street people you're kind of always building a little profile I guess almost like a what do they call it in the digital world of the internet shit like almost like a like a character profile

You're always keen, you know what I mean, to build these. You might not be able to meet someone and be like, yeah, that's a rat. But everyone talks so much half the time you already know who a rat is because they're, because they're ratin. So it's, but half the other thing is kind of a work in progress. You're always paying attention to what these people are doing. You're like, oh, this guy can't even handle this. He for sure can't handle this. It comes down to fundamental questions.

I think like integrity and stuff like that. It sounds stupid and lame, but the person that has integrity is not the person that's running around screaming that he has integrity with the integrity shirt on that says integrity across the chest and the integrity tattoo on the shin. That's not the guy.

You know, so that's actually the anti-integrity. But I think you just have a keen sense and you just build these little profiles on people, which isn't healthy to keep those in your mind, you know, constantly running a scan on everyone around you, especially, you know, from my shitty family. I have to run these scans on my own family. I come from a damn weird family that kills each other and all this other stuff.

So I guess in that sense, it's always kind of a second nature because it's just the way that we are, but that's not really the way that I'm trying to do it. you know it's a sharpened skill though little sense you get but yeah thank you for sharing that i got uh the time for somehow just flew by and i know i my questions i don't even have time for i so i'm gonna squeeze in two more rattle them off i'll give you quick answers okay cool so what was the writing process like for fat around the heart since since we're talking like it seems really people will really connect with that song and especially the process of your band is just not exactly

conventional yeah so i was just curious how that it was the phrase it's a it's a it's a voodoo phrase like a it's kind of a has a creole origin like new orleans voodoo not necessarily the western african voodoo but um it's a phrase that just means scared and that's kind of how i've felt about, you know, this world that I was looking at, I guess, at the time. And so I came out with the kind of the cadence and the idea. And then the riff kind of stuck to it because I don't have any skills on the guitar. So the riff, when the riff sticks to the lyrics, you know that I was behind it doing something shitty. And it's not graceful. And it's kind of percussive and it's kind of sloppy but

and it's kind of meat-headed and it's not very yeah thoughtful but it was just the idea punching the idea through da da da da da da da drop it down on some verses and and it was just a yeah reflection of

exactly what we were just talking about actually fear and and things like that it just comes from from that idea hmm do you remember hearing like the music got all I did. This is

this is sick. Yeah, I was like, yeah, this slaps. Yeah, this is, this is, this is it. This is, I mean, slappy. This is, uh, that's good. I don't know, as, you know, I kind of could feel that that was like, going to be like the, like, the, one of the big songs on the record,

you know, I mean, it helps that we did a video for it and pushed it and everything, too, but there was that, you know, that demo that we released before that was, what was it, that? Kill them all. Desperate lovers, I think.

Desperate lovers on it. Yeah. Yeah. That's just, I do remember when we were writing it, like, it was just kind of, you know, this is the, you know, this is our first real look, or, you know, everybody. And coming from what we were doing before and shit and just trying to, like, kind of be better songwriters and stuff, you know, it's very, the song is just very straightforward.

You know, he says, oh, it's kind of meat-hedy and stuff. but it doesn't the song doesn't do anything it doesn't need to do. True. You know, um, you know, um, you know,

so, you know, it's one of the easiest songs to play. It's just, I don't think there's anything that's not on the fucking bottom string. And that song. You know what I mean? Um, but it grooves and it's locked in and it's tight,

you know, and yeah, it's, you know, in the chorus, it's right on top, you know, the vocals and everything's just,

right in how, each other but that's why it hits that's why it hits hard it doesn't have to be crazy flashy whatever it can be meatheaded but you feel that shit when it hits you know and that first chorus hits and the fucking just

feel like everything's just coming down on you yeah yeah it's like man where you guys from yeah so it's you know we're we're dude we're guilty of huffing our own fart sometimes man we're in the studio feeling ourselves and shit

you know what I'm saying that's cool some shits you know some shit's and write it you know uh dude i write around bumping bumping our shit all the time you know people are like do you fucking sit and listen to you're just like dude if you're not writing your own favorite songs what the fuck you doing why why you're writing it i like that it's sick well i know you guys don't do i don't think i think i think i've only seen one interview with both you so so it's very rare so so thank you for giving me your your time so since this is uh this is your time it

Is there anything out there? You want people to know any, anything. This is your platform. No. I guess we could talk about what we're doing right now for 30 seconds, which is we have the next project that we have coming out is an EP, but I don't really like to call that, call it that because it's an indie film,

like a full-length film. And the songs are the soundtrack that live inside of the film. And the EP project is those songs that are in the film. And the film comes in little episodes. So the first episode came, I think, a week ago or two. And the second episode of the installment comes tomorrow. So that would be my only corny self-aggrandizing play. plug. It's a pretty cool idea because I never seen anyone roll out this episodic. I guess it would be a

series. I kind of think of it as a film because it's one piece, but it's a series and it's episodic. And you have this story that we are telling and we're in it. So we're in it and we filmed it and all this other stuff and the music for the next project is in it as well. It's called Under the Black Rainbow. So hopefully, I don't know, people, think it's cool, but I don't really don't care. It's going to be cool. I'm totally to the words out of my mouth. I know you guys don't really care.

I just think it's cool to do something that I've never seen someone do, you know, which is why we've made a pornome as a music video. I just think stuff like that is kind of cool. And this is, I think this is exciting to me, but I hope it's exciting to other people because just tuning in each week to watch the little next episode installment. The story is pretty cool. Obviously, I think that because I wrote it, but I, I would think it was cool otherwise.

It's cool. If you want a second opinion, it's fucking awesome. We got the stamp. Yeah, yeah. Got the Kmart stamp. But that's what we're doing right now. Also, we're on tour. I don't know when this will drop,

but we'll probably still be on tour. We're touring a lot this year. Yeah, it's not this Monday, but the following Monday. Right. Cool. Well, we'll still be on tour. We'll be on tour. And this thing that we're doing now rolls out for like three months.

It's just episode after episode after episode telling this story. And so it goes into this next tour that we're doing in August, which is the Under the Black Rainbow Tour, which is for the EP. So it's cool. Yeah, that's what we're working on right now. Hopefully it comes out, turns out well. It could be, again, delusional.

I think that it's way cooler than it is. But, hey, maybe give me a call. Let me know what you think. Yeah, sure. I'll shoot a text This is something That's good enough No no your band's always done things on your own terms

And I respect that Because it is You know it's not exactly a common thing Yeah It's cool You know I was a Close it off And then I was listening to your book

Okay And I got another hour And 45 left So I'm not gonna spoil it But I'm at the overpass and I'll say three words overpass knife ribs

okay yeah yeah I was like just like just listen I don't know I don't think I ever my life just been into any kind of book so much I mean at that point I'd be listening for four hours straight oh wow it was great oh it's like walking around here I'm like I want to know Gars I hope you're not getting depressed

no because I see when you said it you're like I just starts looking down. No, it's, it's more like inspiration. Why did I do this podcast? I got to find something better. No, no, no, no. It's very, it's very inspiring. My mind goes to the, I'm pretty drawn to like the dark stuff.

Okay. And that makes me inspired to riffs and do more, more of these. And so that's, anyone that does what they want to do is inspiring. That makes, that helps me write rifts. Yeah. You know. That's awesome. That's cool.

Well, you're doing an awesome job at it. Appreciate that. This stuff is cool. And this is, this is, this is awesome. So I would say congratulations to you too because, thank you. It's pretty, it's gotten pretty popular for the short amount of time, having just started within how long has it been? It's only three years. Years, I was going to say, yeah, three years.

Yeah, and it's like podcasting, it's like music. Three years is nothing. Yeah. You're still like getting reps. It's just, yeah. You know, it feels good. And it's not anything until you hit the 10 years. year mark is it really yeah i say yeah i'd say maybe if i hit like the episode 250 mark or at the 500

mark five years seven i'll probably maybe feel something then you'll think something's going yeah that might be cool yeah then that's yeah that's when you'll you'll you'll still have the posture system still probably yeah why why am i doing this yeah stupid so you're so stupid that's a good voice though it's a good voice to have it is because it kind of keeps you in line I've learned to run towards it. Yeah. It's not a bad place to go. No.

I think that's that's probably exactly where we set. If you think of an idea and it's kind of, I don't know, intimidating. No, not scary, but new, intimidating, worrisome. That's probably the direction you should go into, I think. Great. Yeah, anything that that man peers, they say that that's the thing you should go towards. exactly you know i'm getting somewhat better at it as i get older weed helps me weed kind of helps you run towards the monster doesn't it yeah well it

shows you the monster if you like if you're lucky or not and then then you have a choice okay am i am i going to work harder am i going to do this or do that so it's help you seem to be doing a good job everything looks in order looks like and it's in the right spot and the and to top it off well that's most important part yeah yeah uh the top it out i had to literally start my own podcast and completely work my ass off to hang out with your band. People. Wow. That's what it took.

Chris, you didn't have to do all this, man. You could have just hit me up. I try to walk on the bus and I almost got beat up. I don't know. You had to get past security. You know, I don't know if you know this,

but King 810, you know, we got security. We got all this detail. This is a high, you know. You go through the proper channels. You know, you know, as well as I do, you know. So we got the private chefs and the things like that Because we're so well-paid playing for 300 people And you know

You need to go through the proper channels, okay? That's all it was. I'm just joking. Oh yeah, well, I'm stoked that you guys are here alive. That's cool. Thanks, guys. Likewise. All right, everyone.

That's it. Meda. Appreciate it.