Garza Podcast - 138 - COAL CHAMBER & SPINESHANK | Nu Metal History With Meegs Rascon & Mike Sarkisyan

Episode Date: August 20, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with Meegs Rascon & Mike Sarkisyan. Meegs Rascon is the guitar player, co-founder of American nu metal band COAL CHAMBER & GEMINI SYNDROME. https://linktr.ee/coalchamber https://synnersociety.com Mike Sarkisyan is the former guitar player of American nu metal/industrial metal band SPINESHANK & co-founder of Dore Vodka. https://dorevodka.com SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF!

Come on, bro. You, like, sing live and... Swat. Oh, well, I don't know if that singing. But that's just yelling like an idiot. I think that counts. Yeah, sure. I've been trying to do it, but I don't know.

I don't have, like, the rhythm to, like... You mean because of playing? Play and even say... I try to, dude, like, try to say something. It's very hard. I can't. That's why if it's like a one word thing, obviously cool. But, like, if it's like...

And I'm, like, doing this, I'm like, shit. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I actually started singing like on our last, well, not the record, but the tour. Like, I was doing harmonies. Oh, you can sing? Well, I mean, I could do harmonies. But that's singing.

Yeah, I don't, yeah. I mean, yeah. But my voice sucks. When you say harmonies, which one? Like, like a fifth octave. Oh, yeah, like a fifth or a third or something like that, like if that's what you're talking about. Yeah. That's cool.

I can't do that. Me either. But one day I want to sing, sing. I want to have like a nice, decent. And then like a smothered. I used to do that. Like smothered. Oh, yeah, yeah.

That's cool. But it's not me on the record. Just live, I used to do. That was Johnny. Yeah. Smothered. No, sorry. Let's go.

Let's go. Let's talk more about it. Mike, I haven't seen you many years. It is great to see you, brother. It's amazing to be here. Meigs my first. my first guitar teacher I asked him

my partner with this band and he said no but that's not a big deal it's fine I said no because I was like dude you don't need me to teach you how to play awful

you know like when I say awful like you know well you know just play a wrong note and bend it and it's dissonant and it fits

it's all good make it happen don't be a bitch don't be a bitch just make it happen like if you're asking me to teach you scales and all that I'm like

Like, probably not the right person. But if you want, like, uh, like, if you want things to sound off and, but yet on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think I got that shit on. Yeah. Yeah.

I know when you sound off and you're like, oh, shit. That's, but. Do you think it's more like a, like, a, like, what is it? And Mike, you, like, you did it too. Is it like a, is it like a intention? Is it a mindset? Is it like a way of living? Like, what, like, what is that?

Uh, I feel like, I, I've had. these discussions I obviously I'm not trying to write a melodic I do know how to write that but like I I just want to write things that are like off you know like a bendy

this and I think it's like I just my mind just goes into okay I just want to make this sound like almost like it's like off a cliff like that tension like a tension thing so I love that because that to me that's harmonious that's like it's pleasing to my ear.

You know what I mean? Like, yes, I could play like major progressions and blah, blah, blah, and octaves with it. But I do love that thing that people go, it's almost like, it almost hurts,

but yet it's pleasing. Like throwing them off somehow. Yeah, they throw them off somehow. Yeah, they throw, you're like, I love that reaction where people go, I love that. That is literally my favorite thing in the world. People would go,

like, it just sounds, almost off, but it's not. You know what I mean? Yeah, but it's purposely done. Of course, of course. I know what I'm doing. Like, when it comes to that, it's like, yeah, I wanted to, like, kind of puncture your ears. But yeah, you go, oh, okay, I get it, I get it, you know?

Like, it takes a second. You're like, oh, okay, that's, you know. I mean, I think we all do that. Like, we all are part of that scene where it's like a, it's not about, like a progression that makes you, oh, okay, just anybody could sing, if you could sing. No, I wanted to be very difficult.

Obviously, my band wasn't doing that kind of thing, but it was just everything has to kind of collide. Notes have to collide, and things have to go here and here. That's my shit. I love that. You know what I mean? That's my thing. I love that.

I love that. I love when things clash. Yeah. Yeah. Well, none of that guitar players can do that. You know? Well, here's a question I have for you, for both of you guys, actually. Yeah.

Do you pick up a guitar and then just kind of play and come up with stuff? Or do you hear it in your head and then pick up a guitar and try to emulate it? Both. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you're just messing around and then something comes out. Something cool happens. But then the thing that really pisses you off is that you have something in your head.

And you can't reproduce it. And you're trying. You're trying. That's the worst fucking thing ever, bro. Yeah, for me, it's like, yes, same thing, but like, I feel when I deck around, it's like, I do have a, like, either it's an effect or, like, a thing, a vibe. A vibe. So that's all I'm trying to capture.

Not the nonsense, who gives a fuck? Because if it's chromatic, like, whatever. But I just want to capture, like, a vibe, you know, a feeling, you know? So that is literally what I'm trying to capture. So when I go, like, I already know where my finger. are going to go and, you know, I'm just trying to bend, do chromatic, slide things to just kind of be offbeat, like, you know, like kind of slug behind the beat or be ahead of the beat. Like, that's intentional.

Like, I feel like I'm just, you know, trying to make a vibe. That's, you know, like a thing, you know, so that's intentional. Are you not so sound-based, but you're more, it sounds like you're more emotion-based? Emotion-based. because like sound look man like if you go to record a record like look man every guitar player you

him it's kind of sound like you whatever am whatever guitar I just know that for a fact so every record I just go and like I don't get a fuck

just let's just fuck it because when I'm just like pressing on the strings it's like I just know that's other guitar players they're not that's not even

they can't even I can't even replicate that sometimes. It's just because I'm just, like, I'm just vibing, you know? So I don't care about the sound. Like, of course I do care about it, like, in a sense, like, I want it to be thick and crisp or whatever, but sub-wuffy or just, just, but me just attacking the strings, like, like, a punk rock

player. That's what I'm trying to go for. That's why, like, every time, like, the producer would be like, dude, you're fucking going on a tune. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. That's what I'm trying to do. But that's how I play. That's how I play, and that's what I want.

He goes, okay. And what is the producer say? Because this is a problem that I run into as well. At first he's like, dude, you're out of tune. I go, awesome. You know what I mean? It's not like I'm just playing like a half off note or whatever. It's just, I'm playing, it's like a dissonance.

And when they're just like, are you doing that on purpose or are you fucking with you? I think it might be out of tune right there, dude. I'm sure. right there 100% I'm positive that's way out of the tune but you see what I'm saying that's a vibe

like I didn't even intend that like I just saw that I looked at a I remember this I saw you know the speaker and I was like oh shit

I had a delay and I go oh fuck it and I did it and I didn't even think about it I just went like this and in the you don't think about it no you don't think

it because you can't because if you think about it it comes off fake it comes off pretentious or comes off the cuff shit Off the cover, you just do it. It's an emotion thing. Like you said, it's an emotion thing.

Wow. Yeah. I think out of us three, I think, Mike, you're the most melodic. 100%. Probably, yeah. Where it sounds like you have like intentional progressions and notes. Am I? For sure.

I mean, you know what? It's kind of funny that we're both sitting here. Like, I could never. I'm in heaven, dude. This is sick. I could never in a billion years. See, I. and

let me formulate my words correctly like I couldn't come up with a riff like Big Truck right because and make it sound cool but he does you know what I mean like to me like if I came up with that

I'd be like dude this is too simple yep you know what thank you for saying that because some people were like I go but it's just like no you're right And it's like, I just, like, I mean that in the best possible way, you know what I mean? Like, I take it out of a compliment.

Like, I have some kind of a mental block where it's like, if I came up with that, I'd be like, no, it needs more. Yeah. It needs more. Oh. So you're the opposite of us. You need, and it needs more. When we're like, how do you make this more simple? Right.

But see, here is a thing. Because we're not good. If I came out with Big Shuck and, like, it was the whole thing. Yeah. Right? Like, right where the beat comes in and, you know, like, the. bass and everything comes in, then I'd be like, oh, fuck, that sounds cool. But if I just sat there and came out with did, did, they did, did, then,

then, did that, I'd be like, no, that's like, there's something lacking here. No, I get that. Really? I get that. So he, I mean, he's got that, I think he's got that vision where he sees it when he hears the whole thing. And then me, I'm like, okay, I'm going to come up with a cool riff, but then I already hear everything else, like the way it's all going to be orchestrated. you know what I mean

plus I think unlike you guys I layer the shit out of things yeah we were always a one guitar band but there was like fucking layers of things you know what I mean

there was like a guitar and then like a counter melody and then like a whole other melody on top oh wow and you know sometimes it was a bitch to reproduce live but we figured it out yeah yeah so if you

let's say for example you have a song like new disease Like, are you walking around your house, washing dishes or something? And you hear, like, something in your head and you stop me, you try to get it out? Or do you purposely sit down? And then you just start ripping. Then you have a riff, and you keep building on it until it's done.

That song, actually, I mean, if I remember correctly, the way that came around, I mean, I'm talking about just that song in particular. That main riff, which is a chorus riff, like the one it starts with, and then like the day, Like that riff. It was a lot different in the demo stage where we wrote it. It had more of like a weird, like an almost like a Nineish Nails vibe to it where like it was continuous. Like it was da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.

It was like a guitar like that going on the whole time. And then by the time it actually made it to the record, it shifted and it morphed into what it is now. To me, the cool riff in new diseases that, I guess you would call it the verse riff, the day-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-bamp-th... That, to me, is like the cool riff. And that just kind of... It's almost like the crazy train notes, but, like, backwards, kind of. Because, I mean, I'm a huge Randy Rhodes fan.

Okay. So that's kind of how that come around. I don't know, like, it's been so long, man. I mean, that record's been, what, like 25 years ago? We wrote that, something like that. Wow, how old were you? I was, when we did that record, I was 22. Wow.

Hmm. So, yeah, I was 22 when we did that. Dang, I think I was 13 or something. That's sick. Yeah. Oh, shit. I mean, I was definitely the youngest, the youngest dude in my band, so. Okay.

Really? Yeah. Well, who'd you think it is? What? Who'd you think it was? You guys I'll look old Yeah, I know

That's true Grandpa's over here Yeah people don't know But like you Like you Like like Both you have a lot of history Like you guys

Have known each other Since like the Early 90s Since before either of us Had a record deal Obviously And I was gonna tell this story Is this it?

Yeah This is it It's going to it So obviously Cochamber was Around way before us A couple of us A couple of the dudes

and Spine Shank were in a band called Basic Anigma. That's like somewhat of a known fact like it's a Wikipedia and shit. Then we broke up, then we started Spine Shank, we didn't really play shows and I did have the Colchamber demo.

I didn't know any of the guys or anything like that. And I had been to a few of their shows before Mikey was even in the band. Oh, that long ago. Yeah, like that long ago. There was a pre-Mikey demo? There was like a, we had a drummer for like a brief period, like initially.

Obviously it didn't work out and, well, I'll let him finish the story and then I'll tell you that story. Oh, okay, cool. So I had been to their shows and I forgot who was playing. I ran into Migs at the Roxy, like right when you walk in, you know, like that little hallway that you go into to like enter the venue. And then I talked to him. I was like, yo, what's up with Cold Chamber? And he's like, yeah, you know, like we're going to start playing shows again and this and that. I'm like, dude, I really like your bed.

And he was like, thanks, bro, thanks. So cut to like probably about a year. Oh, you know me. So cut to about a year after this. I gave him a Spireshank had made a demo. I gave him a demo. And this, like, this is how shit happens. Like, especially back then, I mean, the scene was crazy, man.

like that whole sunset strip you know like bands are playing everywhere it was like that entire what is now called the new metal scene like snot cold chamber whatever all those bands they were like just playing clubs pretty much once a week

yeah wow so I go to a sick of it all show at the alligator lounge remember that place on Pico no but I was there no you weren't there I was like whoa but this is this is kind of where you come in

and then um And then Fear Factory and Cochamber were playing a show like two weeks after this. They both had record deals. And I had given Miguel my demo, the Spine Sheing demo. So I run into Dino over there at a sick of it all show, right? And I'm talking, I'm like, and I was a huge Fear Factory fan. I was like, they were like doing the manufacture. They were already like at the tail end of the manufacturer, the whole thing.

They were doing remanufacturing, in fact. that was about to come out and I talked to him I'm like dude I'm like I love your band you know this and that and that and I'm like hey check out my demo and he took it he looked at it and he's like dude I know you guys

I'm like how the fuck do you know this he's like Miguel from Cochamber was like playing this I was like no way what a small circle what I didn't know is there was this like complex off of Melrose like this little apartment complex and they both lived there

There were neighbors, Dino and Miguel. Yeah. I mean, I was just like some, at the time, I don't think I was like, maybe 18, maybe. And I was, you know, I lived in Pasadena, so I didn't. I wasn't like really in Hollywood all the time or anything like that. And then I don't know what pushed me to say this. I told, I asked Dina, I was like, hey, you guys are playing a show. You think we can open that?

And shows in like two days, huh, right? Like, no, like two weeks. Okay. And he goes like, yeah. this is the first Spine Shanks show ever. We have not played a show up to this point. That's sick. That's dope.

And then I was just like, holy shit, man. We're going to open for Fear Factory and Cold Chamber. September 11th, 1997. So, Fear Factor and Coltherner played together? Yeah, whiskey. Oh, shit. I don't remember shit. And that was our first show playing with you guys.

So from that point on, and then somehow I got a, I gave a demo to Rob and Machine Head, Rob Flynn. So for some reason, Miguel, Des, Dino, and Rob Flynn, because Rob loved us too, were telling Monti Connor about us. They're like, dude, there's this bad spy shaking LA. You need to fucking check them out. And then like literally, I think like seven, eight, nine months later, something like that, we had a record deal with a roadrunner. that's quick but we were playing a lot of shows we were playing like every two weeks like anywhere we could find anywhere yeah and we we definitely grew a fan base in those few months but had it not been for that first show because i mean that was a sold-out show we had like a mailing list of i don't know

like 250 300 people from that very first show and this is before internet before any of that like we would literally like mail out flyers bro wait wait wait so So physical mail flyers. Physical male flyers. Who would mail it to, like, people on our mailing list. Me and the dudes in the band would always be out at the clubs. I don't care who was playing. Would you be passing out flyers?

But, I mean, the scene was definitely way different then than it was, like, let's say, 10 years after that. That's how old school that is, that we were doing flyers. Mid-90s, bro. Mid-90s. Flyers, bro. Like paper, like you give. And it works. But you were mail.

That's what the mailing. list actually meant and I didn't know that. So you get a list. So you got their address. Yeah, they would put their name, address and phone number. Whoa. And then we would go and then we had like a whole database.

Like I forgot what the hell like it was a word. We would physically get in there and type in like their address on that little stickers. That's so much more work. Sometimes you would handwrite it. Yeah. And then just mail them

flyers. Oh my It's crazy time, bro. That's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. It takes work. Yeah.

Look, like a story about fliring, like, cold chamber used to get like posters made like out of our obviously out of our pocket

and we used to just just bombard Hollywood. Yep. And we used to get fined all the time. But we were fine? You're fine? And we were like, yeah, fuck you. Like, we just throw the tickets away.

Like, it didn't matter. Whoa. Yeah. But we were so like, like, like, we were. bombastic about that shit. We would just push.

We just wanted our name everywhere. Wow. Yeah, so people see it. Oh, Coltramer, like, you know, like, literally. And that's kind of how I heard of them. Yeah. I initially, like, my attraction to Colchamor was like, it's a cool sounding name, dude. Because, like, that whole scene was, like, sort of starting out.

You know, there was like Fear Factory. There was Machine Head. But they were, like, more on the metal end of things. Right. And we're at over to distrochid.com. slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms. And now to the heaviest podcast of all time. They weren't Soka, right?

They were in North Carolina. Machinehead was, yeah, but they would play LA a lot. And then Corn's first record came out. And it's not like corn came out and blew up like that. You know what I mean? It was like a slow burn? Yeah, the people at the underground knew him, like me and him, you know, whatever. But, like, corn was like, I've seen corn at the troubadour.

I've seen corn at the whiskey. You know, like, those sized places. Like, they didn't just go play in, you know, Santa Monica Civic or Palladium off the bat. So I've seen them in, like, those small clubs. And then, like, if corn was played or death tones that would come down and play, you know, we would just be out there passing flyers out, bro.

It was definitely a scene, you know. It was, like, it's crazy, bro. Like, the scene was just, like, it felt like it was a scene. It was a scene. Like, literally people were playing and they were sold out here, and the other band would be sold out here. Like, it was literally a scene. Like, it was kind of like the, like the 80s when people were just walking around.

It was literally like that, but it was like new metal shit. Yeah. And people would, it's just around, and they're bad. Like, it was just crazy. Static. Stott. Snott will come down and play. It was like a new metal scene before he was even a thing.

Yeah, it wasn't even called new metal. It was just rock or metal. So it was. It was called, I remember they were calling it L.A. Metal. L.A. Metal. Because it was all like basically down-tuned. Like that's literally, that's the only thing any of us had in common was we all tuned down. And then what I think threw it in a tailspin or like what fucked it all up, the name L.A. metal was either Limbiscuit, who were from Jacksonville or a little later on Slipnott came out.

who weren't from LA either but Slipknot like blew the fuck up obviously and then it was like okay so you can't call it new metal I mean LA metal anymore and then I think if I'm not mistaken it was Kerrang Kerrang magazine that like coined that term new metal yeah okay either it was them or metal hammer

it was like it came from the UK that the term new metal but it's it's all weird because you know I was like okay so you know you're calling Cochamber system of a down and limb biscuit new metal those bands sound nothing alike like there's absolutely nothing in common other than they all play guitar but you know yeah i feel like the the only commonality was like i feel everyone was just really trying to be original or trying to put a niche like i mean

that's i feel that's like sometimes lacking with like like i feel but lae was i felt everyone was just trying to be different. Yeah. And now... Yeah, that was it. Everybody was trying to be different. Yeah. And the only thing,

calming was that the tune down thing. Of course, when you go into that tempo in the groups, of course, sometimes things, okay, they might touch on that

that way, of course, but I think everyone was just trying to just have their own niche. Like, it was, if I could feel that,

bro. Like, it was just like, uh, that hunger to just like be... Different. Yeah, different.

And not, and not even like, a stereotypical metal. It was like, you could feel it was bad, like, look at system, static, like it was just different.

Everybody was just doing the shit and fucking shit up, you know? And that was awesome because it's like, you could feel the camaraderie but also the competition. Yeah.

It was healthy competition. It was healthy. But I'll tell you one thing, like, bro, everybody helped everybody out. Yeah. Like bands,

like dudes would just help each other out. Yeah. Like, So for example, you gave, like, the Dino example. Like, what was something else that bands were doing to help? We would just put shows together, man. Well, Cochamber is kind of a bad example because when we came out, they already had a record deal and they had put their first record out.

But, like, you know, take, let's say, spine shank, static X, system of a down. Let's take those three bands. Yeah. Like Shava would put shows together at the whiskey. And then he would call me. He'd be like, yo, bro, we're doing a show at the whiskey. You guys want to do it with us? Yeah.

Holy shit. You know, like that's how it would work. And then, you know, shit would happen, you know, like fucking somebody's symbols would get stolen, let's just say, right? The other drummer would be like, yeah, bro, take mine. It's all good. And I'm talking like these were all local bands. I mean, they all had the label. interest for sure, but nobody really had a record deal.

But, I mean, you're talking like, we would sell out the whiskey, bro. Five, six hundred people. It was like this fucking is growing scene. Yeah, it was, I mean, it was like literally a scene. But you know, like everyone was, like I said, different that like you're like, it wasn't even trying to compete within the genre of, because it wasn't even a genre. It was so new. It was so fucking new, bro. Like, everyone was just doing shit.

And you're like, whoa. everybody and you're like oh but you would help because it's like oh I'm not even trying to do that but I'm doing my thing so it wouldn't feel like you're competing in the same thing because it was there was no genre they was just like people were just doing crazy shit so everyone's like oh yeah let's fucking play together blah blah because you all help you up or you know blah blah blah and it was a different kind of thing you know back then because things it was so new bro it was so new that we were trying to take metal into a territory that was, you know, just...

Uncharted waters, basically. You know, the egos didn't really start kicking into, like, everybody's second record. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Oh, that second record was... I mean, something that people don't really know about both your bands, because...

And also, I was wrong for assuming this, because people associate anything pre-2005 as, like, money. But since the scene was so new, you guys both signed out of time where you don't know didn't a pop yet. So you signed before the money came, correct? Oh, okay. So, like, I'll get into some money stuff.

So Road Runner at the time, they signed the same record deal. Yeah, yeah. Had, like, the basic standard Roadrunner deal. 30,000, that's it. 30,000. Boom. Seven, seven albums. And it was...

Seven albums, $30,000 deal. It would go up in increments of $10,000 per album. So your second album would be 40, third album would be 50, so on and so forth. But I'll give Roadrunner this credit. Our first album, even though contractually, they were obligated to spend 30 grand on it, end up costed $105,000.

Our first record? Your first record, yeah. Your first record cost $80. I know this. I'm going to say, like, wow, they gave you more money than us? Fuck you. We're right. But pretty much their production team,

minus J. Gordon, did our first record. Yeah. Because they had Jay Gordon and J. Bob Gardner, and Amir was engineering. Our first record was, Jay Gordon didn't take any part of it, but it was Amir de Rock and Jay Baumgartner. Yeah.

And then our second record, I think they spent $250. Contractually, they were obligated to do like $40. Wow. It was just a weird time, but it was, yeah, it was that the standard Rotter deal. That's what that was at the time. And then all of a sudden, like, you know, I mean, I thank Nickelback for this, because if it wasn't for Nickelback, I don't think any band of Rotter would ever bring. break after that.

Because I were just taking that nickel back money and funnel it into, you know, all the like metal bands. I mean, we did have budgets. It's just contractually we didn't. So it's not like, okay, our option was picked up and then all of a sudden, okay, here you go. He's like a $400,000 advance. That never happened. Yeah, because for context for people, Coltrane's first record came out first.

Your first figure came out September, uh, 1990. In the 1998. So this is for dates, people get it straight. Corn's fall to leader that went number one came on in August. So you released, you already had the record done and plans recorded before it was New Metal was truly a thing. So actually, this is a fun fact. When we were recording Strictly Diesel, our first record in NRG in Studio A, Corn was next door in Studio B, doing file the leader. Wow.

Wow. And then our lounge was cooler than theirs. But their studio was cooler than ours. Like the control room and like the live room. Like I don't know if you ever been in energy. No. So studio is like that one is like the Moroccan room. It's got like drapes and all this other stuff.

Where studio is like the clean more, you know, that thing. So I walked into our like lounge area one time. and I see Jonathan, Jonathan Davis, just sitting there. And I'm like, is that who I think it is? And he was just like, yeah, hey, what's up, guys? You know, they were like super cool. Yeah. All those dudes, you know, I mean, it's weird that we didn't tour with.

It's weird that our bands never toured together. It happens sometimes, man. It was one of those who were like when they were touring, we're doing a record and vice versa. Yeah. Quick story. So, you know, he said you said Jonathan, like, So at the time, like we were doing, I think, Westlake Audio, the recording studio. On Santa Monica?

Yeah, yeah. And we were doing, I don't know, we were doing shit there for, I think, the second record. And I remember, like, Limp Biscuit was next door in the studio. And he came in, he was like, dude, I want you guys to hear this fucking song. And I remember clearly he played Nookie. In demo stage, I was like, I was like, fuck, that is dope. You know, like, it just had a groove, and it was just like, oh, shit, that's going to be a hit. Really?

Of course, it became a hit. And a hit it was. And a hit it was. Yeah, but so, you know, it was kind of like one of those things, you know, we would just go in and in the studio. We would just play, hey, check this out. You know, it was kind of a fun time. We destroyed NRG on that first record. OneG two.

Like physically, bro. So we finished the record. And I don't know if you know Kevin Astrona. No. He knows. Oh, yeah. Kevin Estrada was already and our guy. There's was Bonte.

Ours was Kevin. So we finished the record, and this is like Kevin's first signing, first record, and he's all happy. He takes us to Costco, and we're about to throw a party at NRG, right? He takes us to Costco, and remember ain't nothing but a G-thing video? Like the fridge when you open, it's all 40s? Okay, so that had like that dual sub-zero fridge at like, NRG and it would open

and ours it was just like all beers bro it was just beers and like just handles of like vodka and whiskey and whatever right so we're throwing a party there

we literally invited everyone we knew like studio? Yeah the entire the entire like Hollywood scene oh my gosh is at our studio and they have like a pool table and like a really nice nice glass, like, coffee table

in this. And then there was like... And Kevin decided to get us a cake like in a shape of a record. Like, congratulations, Spine Shank on finishing up your first record and this and that, bro. There's a cake fight. There's like just cake on the pool table, fucking

chicks dancing on it and shit. The glass table got broken. Carpet was all fucking ruined. Yeah. Or like, kiss party was like, that sounds fun, right? Yeah. So ours was like, like, Instead of 40s or beers, we had a... Like, everyone knows this shit already.

So it's not like I'm just, oh, shit. Like, we had, like, the amount of, like... And I'm not, like... Like, what's the word? I'm not trying to make it, like, glorifying. But, dude, the drugs was crazy. It wasn't even a drug. It was the drugs.

Drugs. And, like, drugs and girls and, like, you know, debauchery. Like, it was chaos. Like, it was crazy. I even recorded. Which record? The first one? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. When we were just like fucking wild and just stupid. Yeah. I was like, well, you know, this is rock and roll and, you know, you just do that shit. I guess. That's why that record sucks to me. That's why I don't like our first record. That's really why.

Why? Because it's, we were just too, A, we weren't ready to record that record. I don't think the songs were, like, developed enough. I don't think we're as developed as a. band as we should have been. But I mean, I'll take it for what it is. It's definitely part of our history. Yeah.

But we're just partying too much, man. Like, it was like, we were never like a drug band. We're always a drink band. Mm. And it was just like, we're just, you know, you take a bunch of ghetto kids, throw them in a, you know, multimillion-dollar studio. It's always like, it doesn't look good on paper or does it, that it doesn't work out. Yeah.

You take all these broke ass kids that, that play metal. And now, and now there's money. Yeah. But see, it's not like money in your pocket. and when you're I was like what? Wait, that record was in, I was 20 years old when we did that. Yeah.

Okay, so. 22 or something in that. It was just it's like, you know, when you're 20, what do you know about this stuff, man? You don't know shit. You know, it's like fucking, you know, you got a Neve console with like flying faders and you know, like I would bring a chick in while we're mixing and I would just press play on the tape machine and then like the faders are

flying everywhere, you know, like the moving automation. Sure. And I'd be like, oh my God, that's cooking. like your dick like your dick. Wow. We're just retards, man. We're just retards, man.

I mean, you know. Yeah, it's funny because I'm not going to embellish on that, but you could figure it out. Like it was a, you know,

like I feel that that that feel like certain things like in our record. Like, look, I feel like certain, I feel better about certain records. And that one was,

I feel like, okay, it's more like a young kids just, being crazy. You know, that's how I feel about the... Yeah.

The riffs or like the intent. And it felt like everything was fueled. Like the debauchery was fueling certain sound or just... Your mindset, it just went fucking crazy, you know? So that was just what it was. I wouldn't trade that for the world, but it was just like, you know... You don't think about money. You just think about how can I fuck shit up?

How can I make shit fucking bombastic? How can I make things... How can I destroy shit? Yeah, destroy shit. And that's the mentality. You don't... You don't give a fuck about money. Like, you're, you're already poor, and you're, like, living, like, on a floor,

and you're, like, I don't care. Like, how can I make this fucking awesome, you know? Like, you know, like, that crazy thing. Yeah. But that's what it's lacking with a lot of people sometimes. It's just that you don't have that hunger, like, that drive to, just go, I don't give a fuck. And that is what's lacking. And that's what it was, abundance back then.

Everyone was just, like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, everyone just had that thing, you know? That you think, you know. where to make music like that, you really kind of have to be out of control because then they'll manifest into the music. I feel that. I mean, that's how I feel.

I don't know. Other people have different theories or different ideas about it, but I feel like I had to feel, I don't know if I was doing intention. I didn't think it's subconsciously. I felt like I was feeding a monster in me like that. Like, I talk about this all the time with my friends,

and it's like, I couldn't do shit like that. if it's simple, but like he said, like, well, I couldn't do it. Like, but the discipline, yet the out of control combined, like, to just go, oh, this is the shit and you convince the whole world, you know what I mean? Like, that is a thing that it's a discipline where I go, I could play two notes, but if I just do it with full aggressive intent and full emotion, and I know that's kind of corny to say, but, like, that's how I felt.

So I could make people believe that. That is the difference. Like I felt like I didn't even think it was simple. I just thought it was like, how can I aggressively make you feel that shit? You know what I mean? Like something I always talk about with my friends, like I said, like I go,

I want you to feel me. And that is, I don't give a fuck. It's one or two, no, three notes, four, four. I could play more. I actually can. I'm not saying I'm like, Eddie Van Hengen, obviously, but I'm just saying like I could. But I knew how to just hold back,

but I go, man, I just wanted you to feel this shit. shit, you know, and I knew that those notes were, like, it felt like a fucking Mac truck to me, you know me? That's, that's what I wanted to feel like a Mac truck hitting. Are you talking about, like, big truck specifically? Well, oh, well, you were talking about it, but yeah,

you know, like, people go, but you think I care, like, I don't, and also to not give a fuck. You don't give a fuck of another guitar player would be like, dude, what the, I go, I don't give a fucking shit. Yeah, see, I never looked at that like that. Yeah. Because, like, um, fact is

we're on tour with you guys. Should we open up your vodka? Yes. Sure. Let's let's have a drink. Can you do a quick little story

on this mic? Sure. So, okay, so this is your shit, right? So this is my shit. Me and my boy Nick. We've been working on this project for shit ten years now. Ten years?

Yeah. Wow. Not this particularly, but we're working on a vodka project since 2014 and this is actually about to hit the stores in California not next week with the week after oh wow great timing it's it's a little different vodka it's an oat-based vodka yeah versus a potato or wheat or corn is like a big thing in American vatkas and the way we distill it is

we distill it using a cavadoz which is the same technology as cognac we distill it using let's say cognac technology and what it ends up doing is uh we it's got a lot more body so you can sip it's not as neutral of a spirit as you know your average vodka so you can kind of just sit there and sip it it's room temperature um kind of like you would a whiskey or uh or a high-end tequila or something okay but yeah so like you're a quick story like he he he he actually gave me one of, not the first bottle, but like the first, I think, batch. Kind of like a prototype.

Yeah, no, this is from that batch. No shit. This is from that batch. Cool. Smell it first. Yeah, I got to smell it. Yeah, dude, it's delicious. Like, I'm a big, you know, I'm a big vodka guy.

But dude, when I drank this, I was like, oh, fuck. No, for real. That's a big one, huh? Hi, you'll be fine. Where's your glass for? Where? I'm going to take advice from my teacher. Don't be a bitch.

And a big, big shot. right here, dude. Eti homie wants to do one Oh yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Well, here, I'll put this here. Let's go. This is a rare, rare

occasion where Jay can actually drink on the pod. Very, very rare occasion. Does he get out of control or what? No, because, no, he's got to stay focused. Or he doesn't like streak. Go check it out. It's on our, you know, our Instagram's Dori Vodka.

We have a website, doryvotka.com. Check it out. Right to us. Talk shit. It's great seeing you guys, man. I'm on here. Cheers to you. Cheers, Jay.

Cheers. Ooh, nice. That's scary. Right? It's good. Uh-oh. It's scary. What way?

It's smooth? Smooth. Yeah. Mm. Okay. But you taste that what I'm talking about, right? That's the oats you're tasting. Interesting.

It's really good. Yeah. Congrats, man. Bad ass, dude. Appreciate you. You know, like, like, a quick start, like, like, when he was, he was telling me about this like a long time ago and I was like you know I go fuck

I feel like a really proud moment for you know like obviously a guitar player from a band I actually loved and he goes ventures off into this I go dude that is not only like entrepreneurial like it's also like a I know how he is

he's like a business dude he's a go geter he's like you know he's he's a thank you no no no no for like he knows how to like he knows how to like he knows how to like do shit, you know, that is not an easy task. Because I know he was flying, he was going to France, whatever, he was just doing shit. I go, dude, that's dope, you know?

I go, that takes a certain thing for a dude. Like, not only in music, but when you go out of that and you put that into a passion, like this or anything. I respect that because it makes me go like, wow, that's like, that's a man shit, you know? Like, we were talking early. Like, that's like, don't be a bitch. Don't be a bitch. It takes a lot of commitment. It does.

It really does. Because, I mean, it's actually a lot similar than the music industry when there was actually an industry. Oh, yeah, yeah. The spirits industry is pretty similar to it. But just like any project you take on, be it a record, band, whatever, this is very similar to that. It starts with a thought in your head, right? It starts with an idea. And then you just got to bring that to fruition.

So, you know, there's like almost like the... the inception stage, the demo stage, and then the final, or the mastering stage, you know, like, it's very similar to that. So I think being in a band and doing this for, you know, whatever, 20, however many years, 30 years, it just kind of set me up to have that kind of a commitment to something, you know, I mean, to like start a project and finish it.

Yeah, you know what it's like to have an idea and actually manifest it. Exactly, yeah, yeah. And it's cool. Put everything that happened into it. Yeah, it's cool. It's very similar to it. I mean, you know, it's very similar, like I said,

to the music industry. The only difference is you can't download a bottle of vodka. And that's great news for you and us. Yeah, exactly. That is awesome. Yeah, but like I was saying, like, dude, you know, I really respect this guy. So I got to, like, praise him

because I don't think he hears it enough and I want him to know this. That's cool, my respect is mutual. Yeah, no, thank you, man. But it's like, like, I love that someone has, like, that tenacity or to, like, to push forward. Even if there's obstacles or whatever and you just push forward, that's what it takes to do anything. You know what I mean? Whether it's music, a vodka bottle, construction business, whatever.

I just, you know, you, I really, really, I get really gravitate to that. You know, I gravitate toward people with a, that. that thing, like that fucking shit. Like, I just know what it is. When I see it, I go, fuck, that's cool. And I don't even get envious. I go, I get proud because I go, dude, I know that's what it takes. You know what I mean?

You know, like to go through the trials and errors or like the obstacles or the, to be able to go, you know, if I fail, I'll step up and go here. Like, you know, like you know, that's just, like I said, man shit. That's just like, you just know what the fuck is up. You know, and I know that. I feel that. I feel that with people, you know? He doesn't have to give me its business plan. I just, I just feel it.

It's all about like taking no for, not taking no for an answer. You know what I mean? It's like trying to figuring it out, man. You know, like, I mean, there's obstacles and everything in life. In anything you do, there's obstacles. Any business is life. It's a life lesson, you know? I mean, it's like, it's kind of like, you know, it's very similar to a band.

You know, they're going to. tell you no, you can't do that. So, like, do you have the balls enough to do it? But not do it in a stupid way. You have to get creative. Like, okay, so if I do it, I have to do it like this. And it's very similar to it, you know? It's like, believe me, in the last 10 years, I've heard more nose than yeses.

Yeah, but that's what I know that. Totally. But you see, that's what I respect about it. Because it's like, that is like literally what I fucking strive for, you know, like, and if I see someone go, like, you just go forward. Like a lot of people nowadays, like, they'll just quit or they'll just go into this route or, oh, I'll just copy that or whatever. Totally. And I'm like, okay, I mean, I guess.

I mean, is it about the money or is it like about, you know, proving, you know, of course, money, of course. But I'm just saying, like, like, I could sense something more deeper, you know. Like, things should be not superficial. Like, it shouldn't be about something that's so fucking obvious. Like, I've had these talks so many times. And I get emotional because I go, man, sometimes people don't even know this shit. Like, how the fuck do you live with yourself if you just don't do shit? You know, like you don't think about it.

You just fucking do it. You have a plan and you go forward and you fucking attack shit. And that's how I feel about music. And I've been telling people this. I can't ingrain this shit in their heads. Sorry, I'm getting a little. Because I go, I just want to fucking knock people in the head. Like, dude, you don't know what the fuck it takes.

And I see that And I see that With you I see that That's it And don't Don't care about This and that

You give a fuck about Like I'll be a Like a A fucking soldier Not Fuck that I'm a tank

You know what I mean And you just Fucking Plow through shit You know I mean like That's the fucking point Of life

You know No no Because for real Like what What are you gonna sit there And be a Fucking bitch It always goes back to that

Yeah It always goes back to that. I had to go back there. It's funny you say that because, like, me and Nick, Nick's my partner in this. But me and Nick, we go back, like, our families go back to the 1800s, put it that way. That's like, that's how tight me and him are. Like, our great grandparents were, like, hanging out with each other and stuff, you know, like, chilling. And, you know, like, we're kind of cousins through marriage, you know, whatever.

But me and him always say this. It's not about, it's not about the. money. It's about the journey. True. And it's about like taking that journey with your brother and making the impossible possible or whatever is impossible for you. I'm sure if I had a few billion dollars sitting somewhere. That wouldn't hurt.

I could have made this in, you know, like this would have come to fruition in like let's say six months. I would have just made a few phone calls, got a couple of handlers to do it. But like you literally start a project at zero with a thought in your head. you discuss it you you know obsess over it and then you know over the course of however many years you get it to okay like it's going to be in stores like next week right um and it's the journey that's important to me yeah and it's it's what you set out to do and if you do that right and if you stay true to your principles and what you and your mission and what you set out to do the money

will come. You know? It's like, that's, that's almost secondary in this, you know what I mean? It's all about the passion that you have for something. You know, and just, you know, him saying that, like, you know, like,

like, like, like, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it, because it, it, it, it, it's, it's, you know, that's what the fuck it's about, you know, like, if you, if you, if you, if you do, but are you gonna, do you wanna be the king of a castle without the respect or you wanna be the,

the fucking king of the world. You know, that's kind of the thing. I feel like you have to feel that. And if you don't think about money, because then the true shit is like passion, the emotion that comes through and that is lost in a lot of art.

And like, it's like, if you give a fuck about money, then you're just you're chasing paper to have a, like, the nice shoes. And I go, who gets a fuck, bro? It's pretty superficial, you know what I mean? It's not very superficial.

You know, and like in the grand scope of fucking things, dude, bro, the love and camaraderie or the, like, the, like, when you see each other, you're like, yeah, bro. You know what I mean? Like, that is different than, like, someone with money. Like, do you think I give a fuck? I don't think, I don't know he doesn't give a fuck. You think I give a fuck if someone's flashy or had a car.

I go, it doesn't fucking matter. I don't get a fuck, bro. Like, you're not impressed me. You're not making me wet. I'm just saying, like, you know, like, you know what gives me a fucking? boners and a motherfucker goes, you know, this is what I fucking believe and I go, oh, fuck, that is like

a, like a, like a, like a, like a sledgehammer to my fucking senses. Like, it's like a, I can't even describe it to people because I get super emotional. I, I'm a very emotional sensitive guy because I, because I feel. And I go, I think people don't, and I go, do what?

You think I give a fuck? Like, I don't give a fuck about that shit. I go, but I give a fuck about your, your project. and if you go, dude, this is how I feel this is, and if I feel you, I go, I'm gonna roll with you, motherfucker and to the fucking death.

And that is something that it's like, whether it's your wife, it's your friends, your family, it's all about like just making, you know, like a fucking stamp into the world because when we die, it's like, you're just going to be a maggot fucking fast, and like, no, I just want to leave a legacy. He wants to leave a legacy, we all do.

It's like, you want people to fucking love. and cry for you. Like, and just go, dude, this is my motherfucker. Or you go, ah, well,

he paid my bills. Fuck that. You know what I mean? You mean? Like, that's something I have to convey. And I've told my wife, like,

dude, you think I care about, like, fancy shit? Like, I go, I don't. I go, you know what I give a fuck?

It's to make that, like, when you were talking about, like that, that noise. I go, you know how much I, I go crazy?

Like, I go crazy for, even if it's a son, I go, I fucking stick to that. I go, I gotta make this shit fucking feel, you know? I want you to feel that shit. But that, and that's, like, I think I'm just going a little, you know, crazy, but...

No, you're not. Like, it's like the same sensibility of being, like, a leader will lead by people believing in you, and it's not leading by, like, either fear tactics or... By example. But you lead by example, and you go, people go, you know, they feel into, oh, I'll follow you, I'll follow you. Lead me,

motherfucker, because I feel you shit. And this is music, business, whatever, your podcast. Like, if you feel that shit, dude, people will follow that. I'm guaranteeing that. It might be a long, like a road. It might be like a, more of a big picture. You go,

okay, I'll see the end of the tunnel, like in a bigger thing, but I'll go through fucking hell. But if you do that, man, like, it will pay off. You know, it might not pay off with billions of dollars, but it'll pay off with people fucking go, you know? You know what?

That is the biggest payoff. You know what I mean? And if you go fucking stand by that, I'm sorry, I'm just going, because I had these talks with this. No, it's the journey. You're talking about the journey of it.

And bro, bro, you don't think that's like a payoff? Yeah. You think you're making people think you're cool with like a car, like, or whatever the fuck? It's bullshit. And I'm sorry because I've had these,

talks with people that think certain things are more valuable, go, they'll fuck you. I always say that. I go, fuck you. Fuck that. You know, you know what, you know what's more,

more, weighs more in gold? It's your, it's your, your, you know, your, you know, your, you know,

that thing, you know, like, I have to, like, this is why I get really kind of, like, theatrical or dramatic, like,

because I want people to go, oh, oh, shit, okay, like, that's, that's gold. You know what I mean?

Well, well, well, well, Well, Miggs and Mike, you guys have lived very unique lives. And you guys, you experienced having an unwavering faith in your passion. A lot of people don't, some people don't experience that. You guys have, it lasts forever.

And you build your character through the journey. It's like if you're a church on a hot topic, you don't fucking care. It's like it's what, it's that process that got that, you know? Right, so the way I can explain it is, and I think all three of us will understand this, is like, you know, when you start a song and it starts with an idea. And I'm not talking about when it comes out. I'm talking about when you're like tracking it and you're in the studio. And then like, you know, you hear a rough mix of it.

And then everybody's like, fuck. And then, you know, everybody's high-fiving each other. You go like, dude, this isn't a crazy. It's crazy. Or, you know, like, I'm sure we've all played that show. You know, like, there's like a few shows that stand out. Totally. You know, and then when you're, like, you're connecting with the audience in such a way at that show,

that it hasn't happened at any other show. You know what I mean? You go, like, dude, that was the sickest shit ever. You know, I mean, that's the passion. And that's what that's what. the payoff is now are you getting paid for the show of course you are is your record going to sell of course it is you know i mean sure you're gonna you got if you got a decent record deal you'll get paid something on it but you know it's it's it's all about that feeling now if you don't do that

i don't give a shit what you do i don't i don't care what they pay you it's it's almost like it's not worth it that feeling is what's worth it and that that you know They can pertain to music, that can pertain to business. Anything that you do, dude. It's like, life is a journey. We're all going to die one day. Nobody's going to take anything with us. It's true.

You know, it's about the legacy that you leave, you know, behind you. That's a perfect example. Because, like, okay, just to add on to that, like, do you want to walk in a room going, like, people go, and, like, feel like, oh, fuck, that's like, dude, that's like, the dude changed this or he did this and that's, or you want to be, like, oh, you want to be like, oh. can I borrow money from you? Like, you're just a sucker. Like, it's like, okay, you have money. Like, cool. Oh, cool.

You live here. That's cool. I mean, like, or do you come in and then you have everybody wanting to suck your dick? You know me? Like, there's a difference. You might want to add it that way. Even dudes? No, whatever.

I'm just saying that's just a state of mind. Like, there's a difference. People either trying to suck your dick because you have a paper or you have that fucking shit. and that is like big dick energy even if you don't have like that's straight up what it is and that is literally what I try to tell people

even people that go hey can I give you advice I go I'll tell you advice you might not like what the fuck I say but because you need to hear it like in a way that's like hard because if I give it to you in a little

package thing you're gonna go no one cares no one gives the fucking shit but if you want to hear nasty shit do nasty shit do nasty shit shit, you know? Be that guy. Be that dude.

Because, dude, I just look at guys like that and then I, I know a lot of rich people, that's cool. But like, and then, like, you know, I see a dude that I go, ooh, that, I feel something. I go, fuck. I'm jealous of that because I feel his shit. He's like, he knows it.

You know, he's swinging that shit. You know what I mean? That's different. And I see a guy that's rich. It's like, yeah, whatever, you know. Yeah. Also, the other thing I would say is like, oh, so you got to know your worth. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. That's, that's, that's, one thing and then you can let you know i mean we're talking about like money and and passion money versus passion kind of yeah uh don't let people rip you off either i'm i'm a strong believer in that too for sure you know so it's like it's kind of like all right you know if i slaved over let's let's take this into the music space if i slaved over a record and i made a cool record and this and that and that and that and i believe in it and i know it's good you're not gonna just take this

for a dollar from me, you know what I mean? Totally. By convincing me it's shit. Yeah. You know, it's worth, you know, I mean, sadly, money measures the worth of things, you know, in reality, that's kind of how it is. So I know what it's worth, and I'm not going to let it go for this. You know, you have to be protective of your passion as well.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I see that issue with the past, the bands. have been around the past maybe 10 years where they're like there's like the scarcity of mindset they're fucking sucking this person's dick because they don't they want I don't know like the radio air player or something but it seems like your

air has like this passion that wouldn't like this bands don't know they're worth today you know or it's delusional where it seems like back in our day you know we knew our our value and we weren't desperate

yeah you know It's a rare Unfortunately it's a rare thing But I'm Yeah no I mean you're right I mean like yeah I mean

Be truly your passions Be truly yourself And uh you know That's all Totally I mean I had a quick question for you So the first record is in Recorded at NRG

At 97 before that place It became what it became Right Did you go in it because of white zombie Uh White Zombie was literally our biggest influence in like helmet and clutch whatever but like

we went there because okay so Jay Baumgartner who is owner of NRG oh he owned it well him and his mother whatever but like it you know yeah he's part of the whole thing and uh Jay Gordon had a deal with it and like he goes

do you gotta record here but it's just you know it's just really analog and like and I was like well this is probably above our budget but you know when you just when you're just trying to finact going, you're just a kid, and you're like, hey, man, like, you know, and you just

convince motherfuckers that don't know shit, like, hey, just let me do this for this, and then you just do that, and then you stay overnight and you don't sleep for days, and you just record because there's no, like, okay, so if you record from this hour to this hour, you're like, I think I could, if I don't sleep, I go, I think I could record this and then cut the budget down, you know, it's, yeah, that's what it takes. So I had to, like, there was a time where me, the producer, band like we okay well if you don't see for uh like three days I think you could record this and under this I go okay are you serious yeah that's what it took I go cool you know and then that's

where I was like okay well like I'll I'll do whatever the fuck it takes because we didn't have that type of money and like we were going in there like almost like a kind of like the mother also was like hated the shit we were doing because we're just going in and out weird hours Like weird hours to just record shit. And, you know, we're just in and out, like, kind of like a mission. I go, well, it's going to be like the third, fourth day, whatever, without sleep. I'm like, shh, fuck it, let's do it. You know, drugs, blah, blah, blah.

Go in and record. I go, I just wanted it to be, you know, it was just a thing. You know, I just, and we were like, cool. And there was no, like, oh, bro, but, you know, take your vitamins or really. No, no, no, no, no. You know what I was like, no, no, fuck this. Like, what's the beer? Just let me go in, you know?

What songs did you record like that? Oh, um... Shit, I don't remember exactly, but I remember there's a lot of times where it was literally hours and days or like... Where I was like hallucinating and, you know... Wow. No, for real, bro. I'm not like kidding. No shit.

And I was just like, oh, and you know, my producer was like, dude, fuck it. You know, I was like, yeah, cool. I was like going, like, and just like my fingers just thinking weird shit, you know, like that mentality of like, oh, I just cool and putting pedals into shit that wouldn't mess well but if you get that nugget you're like okay let's record it.

You know me? It was just that inspiration and just I think it was a lot of like like mentally I was just literally exhausting. I was mentally abusing myself to come up with shit even not knowing that but it was

like it was worth it bro. I think I killed a lot of brain cells but you know but it was anything for the art man anything you know that's that's what I'm saying like you know as long as this shit comes out dope as fuck and you're like cool

fuck it I have half a brain now but you guys were in studio B right yeah yeah so do you ever use the star 28 function what oh so you know there's a song called star 28 on our first record

okay okay so that title literally was like so NRG had these like like if you're in the lounges or in the control room or anywhere, it had a light, like a little nightstand light, you know, like one of those. And it had this little phone thingy

with a monitor on it. So if you ever got a phone call, it would go to reception, and then like, let's say, you know, I'm going to talk to Chris Garza in Studio A. Let's say, who's calling? You know, it's Mike Sarkeesian. Okay.

And then the light would blink. The phone wouldn't ring. The light would blink. And then it would say, you know, Mike Sarkeesian calling Chris Garza. Like on the monitor. And then alternatively, you could pick up any phone in the studio, dial Star 28, and it will go directly to the runner.

Oh, yeah. Of the studio. Yeah. You could pick up the phone and be like, okay, bro, I need two cases of Bud Light, some in and out, whatever, right? Wow. Anything you wanted, they would get it. what we didn't realize is it was being all built to us.

Of course. We thought it was complimentary. Oh, you fucking idiot. Right? So we thought this shit's complimentary, bro. And then Kevin walks in like two weeks into recording. It was like, what the fuck is this? We're like, what, bro?

What happened? And he's got a stack of fucking receipts in his hand, right? and he's going like, what's this? Beer, beer, beer, beer, cigarette, cigarettes, beer, beer, beer, in and out. Fucking Pekito Moss. Oh, Pekito, Bats, love it. Fucking this.

And he's just, we spent, like, I don't know, like five grand on stupid shit in, like, the first two weeks over there. And then we're, like, kind of cut off after that. Then they're like, okay, so we went to Ralph's and bought, like, spaghetti and shit. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you eight? I did.

Believe it for that. Oh, my goodness, dude. Yeah, it was a crazy time, yeah. But, you know, that's what it is, right? That was, like, my first sort of rock star experience. That and then the first time we went to Europe with Fear Factory, we're in Paris, and we're literally nobody's like a record had just come out. Dude, I walk out, I walk off the bus. We're opening for Fear Factory.

Nobody knows where the fuck we are. I walk off the bus, bro, like, you know, with like my little, whatever you call it, like the hygiene, toiletry bag. Just going to the venue to take shower and stuff, dude, I got mobbed. What?

I got fucking mobbed. Because they wanted to kick you out of the country? No, no, no. Oh, my God, yeah. We were like Armenians. These fucking, there was these kids, bro. They just mobbed me. And they had, like, all these, like,

magazine articles like can you sign this can you sign this it was like I felt like I was in the fucking Beatles and shit bro I was like what the like how the fuck do you even know about us yeah what record is this this is Strictly Diesel really yeah yeah yeah I mean

believe it or not Roadrunner had is this it is that is that with the with the co-gore oh shit you're fucking a fast yeah that's a story though

that toy that tour. But that's the tour, though, right? Yeah, I think it's, wait, was it Kilgore on that? Who opened? I think it was Kilgore. No, wait, it wasn't... Yeah, yeah, it was Kilgore, yeah.

Kilgore, yeah. Yeah, fucking Bill and shit, yeah, Kilgore. Yeah, it was that very tour. Roadrunner had huge, huge, like, I mean, they were big here at the time, but in Europe, especially in England,

they're like literally a major label, bro. Like we had on our, on, so we did that tour, then we did another tour in, um, Europe. And then we didn't go pretty much the entire time we were doing high to callousness to the very tell end of it.

And we only did England. We didn't do Europe. Bro, that tour was sold out. And then the venues got upgraded. Like it went from like, 800 cedars to like 1,500, 2,000 cedars sold out before we even set foot in the fucking country. Yeah, that was, that was, it was, the transition was happening

in real time. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was, I'll give all the credit to Roadrunner, like, especially their UK operation was fucking amazing. Same here, man, same story. You know, we go there, like, England or, like, do insorts and do, I mean, like, like he said, like, when you feel like, oh, fuck it's big as you know like it's getting big and we will walk like it was like lines and it was like you know they shut the street and like you we walk out and i didn't know this i was

barricade shit uh like put like the barricades and stuff security and all kinds of stuff oh yeah yeah it was crazy and people would just like fucking go crazy bro it would and we had buses and people would just like like almost tip the fucking bus over because it was just like i was like whoa this is fucking nuts man Yeah, yeah. That was that time. People were pushing a bus around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the time, like, yeah, it was crazy.

Our bus caught on fire, and this is actually weird. I think some of the other guys in the bed have talked about this. That Paris show I'm talking about, we got to Paris that night. Our bus caught on fire. Something like in the engine compartment, like, you know, like in the back, like where the generator is or something. Something caught on fire in there. the Eiffel Tower, the lights were off and then

we just found out that Lynn Strait died. It was that day. It was like a weird I'm not very into the supernatural but it was just kind of weird like all that happened within literally like three hours

of each other. It's so sad man well you're fast bro damn. Yeah I mean like Lynn was like kind of one of those things where you're like kind of fucking lightning and a you're like you see it you're like oh you know yeah it was crazy it was fucking crazy you know what I mean and just the the crazy shit and you look at him you like the you know like that how he was

vocalizing you know that rhythm makes out like on and off the beat and just like you know kind of like syncopated like that what that that that that that kind of like a drum beat almost yeah and it was like wow without sounding like a rapping but it was just like a very a very punk rock too. Punk rock, but also very... What do they used to call it? Lounge Corps. I think it actually made sense.

Yeah. But, you know, it was something that, you know, like, he died before his time, and I think it would have grown into something, you know, because he was definitely a force, you know, like, everyone knew it, everyone knew it. Everyone knew it. Like, I could tell what people knew it

because people were just kind of jealous. Really? Yeah, yeah. A blend? Because he was that, like, you're like... To me, they were like the second coming of Guns and Roses. Oh. Whoa.

shit, okay. Yeah. Like that punk rock kind of, you know, like that attitude. Yeah. Like, they were, yeah, Snott was definitely, I'll tell you a funny Lynn story. You'd actually like this. I've never told you this either. We played in the Roxy, and we're friends with the Bruheria guys, and they were there.

And Peach. Peach. God rest his soul, he just passed away. R.P. Peach was drunk as fuck, and he's throwing shit at our singer. right but they're friends oh they're friends okay got it

right but he's throwing shit and he's like he's fucked up bro and uh and he starts saying something from a stage and I'm like dude chill it's it's peach and then next thing I know bro Lynn

like stop was playing too he comes out of nowhere right he comes up to me like this like bro I got you Oh, fuck. Brass knuckles, the whole deal. We have brass knuckles on you?

Yeah. You're a serious guy. He was like, I got you, bro. Don't worry. I got this. I'm like, nah, bro, like, it's all good. They're homies. Yeah.

It's like, all right, all right, cool. All good, all good, bro. Yeah, it was definitely, like, that being said, like, when they started and the Colchammer was kind of that time. There was like a brief beef. Because it was just, I feel at the time it was like, the competition got so out of control. Like, it was like, I think there was, we were just like knuckleheads like thinking we're just badasses. So we would just be fighting all the time, you know, like that was just what it was.

You were scrapping and they came in like thunder and we were like, fuck that. So we don't, it was always like that thing. Obviously we're friends now, but I mean, I'm friends, really good friends with. Mike Doling and the guys, but like, it was like, it was a beef. It was like, because we were like, nah, man, this is my shit. This is my territory. It was weird. Wow.

It was like dogs marking their territory. Yeah, yeah, it was like territory pissings. And we're like, no, no, I'm a bitch. LA's my shit. You can't come in here like that. Because you guys are Hollywood and they were from Santa Barbara. Yeah, San Barra. Oh.

We're straight up Hollywood, LA. You know, it was like, you know, I go, this is our shit. And we're, we were from the ghetto. We're from San Diego. We're from San Diego. But we were from the ghetto. Like I lived in Pasadena where Pasadena's nice.

I wasn't I wasn't a ghetto, bro? Huh? No. No, I never did Glendell. I used to have a Glendale address at one point, but I never physically lived there. I'm that Armenian.

You're very Armenian, bro. You are. So the co-chamber and snot beef was real. It was real. You know, and it was like, like heated and it was a lot of shit talking and you know no one's backing down and you know

I had you know there was a lot of fights and it was like not even with them it was just like a lot of like crew on crew yeah like you know like their homies and your homies yeah my homie whatever at the time we're just fucking stupid fucks you know like you know but we were very

about to scrap and to fight for I felt like it felt like war you know and yeah I mean that's how I felt and like you know I would fight I would, you know, anybody could just fucking walk my ass, I guess. But, like, I was so like, like a chihuahua just fucking,

everyone, and I were like, what the fuck, you know? Yeah. Because I look like, you know, you know, I look like this. He's a scrapper and his ghetto as fuck. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's nothing to. You look like a scrapper for sure. You look like a scrapper.

I was, but not to be proud of, but like I just was fighting for what I felt, you know. But, you know, we just do whatever. I'm talking about feelings again. I just, I knew. I'm passionate. I knew to fight for it. He wasn't being a bitch. Ah, there you go.

You know, I sold me a bitch. You lived it then, too. I lived it. No, no, but that's just the model. You have to. Or what? You're going to sit there and get fucking pegged. Look at Rachel Bowling Chain.

How dare you? You're right, actually. You know where that thing, like that chain is a straight up right from. because, uh, Skid Row. Skid Row. Rachel Boland, yeah. No.

I didn't even straight up ripped them off. Man, we all talked about that. Oh, Miggs has, he has to chain from his nose to his ear. It's so sick. Rachel Bullard. Yeah, but I got it from a 90s band, you know, Skid Row. And he was, and I was like, I looked at him and like, what? Like, I wouldn't what?

And like, I go, I'm fucking remember. Oh, shit. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I did it. But, you know, obviously, I don't look like him. But, like, I did rip off. You kind of look like him. We looked at him.

Okay. I love Skid Row. Skid Row is one of my favorite bands the whole time. Age band, like, it's top for me, like top five or whatever, but... Yeah, for sure. But I took a lot of, like, that glammy, especially the second record.

You know, I took a lot of that Molly Crude, like that aesthetic of... I just took that. And, like, I was just trying to just be more, like, kind of, like, obscene with, like... Like, it's not to look even metal. I was just, oh, no, I look... It's glam rock right there.

But I wasn't afraid of that. But did it pay out? Yeah, probably not, but you know, I didn't get a fuck. So here's a question. I actually got a question for you. I'm like totally taking over your interview. I was, please. Did you?

Because Colchamber, like, you guys definitely had a very unique look. And then by the time your second record hit, especially if you were touring around the country, there was a lot of local bands that literally like bit your look. Did that piss you off? No. No? You always, like, looked at it as a compliment kind of?

Yeah. I mean like I look at it. Because I didn't have a look like that for anybody to bite my look. And I always wondered if like, okay, well, you know, because what you guys used to call that hair, like lollipop? Yeah, yeah, the lollipop hair? Yeah, it was just a turn. That actually turned into a thing.

Yeah, yeah, it was a thing. I knew people were doing it. Yeah, people were doing it. I mean, did I get, no, I was just like, I'm not talking about kids copying it. I'm talking about like other bands doing it. I know. No, I know.

No, I know. I saw it. I was like, you know, you know, you know, It's funny because now people wearing fish and I go, oh shit, I was wearing it, but people were like calling me, you know, the effort a lot. But now you wear it. Which effort? Oh, I'm not going to say that. But, you know, like, it was like a thing. We can bloop it out.

It's fine. No, I was wearing things that it seemed like, well, I think I was born for maybe like industrial or like this. But in a way that it was just like kind of like, what? It doesn't even make sense. I think that was our fucking goal. and I think that was not playing a safe and okay you're gonna face the fire and people are gonna call you a lot of shit

I go that's cool I like it I actually like it because then it makes you like even when I play with like Black Sabbath in Europe people were like this is a story like people were throwing change not dollars like whatever their currency was

throwing it to hit us and they turned their backs and they were just throwing change and I was like and I go fuck this and I went hard The whole band went harder. And then, you know, we got like, and I was like either you go, oh, this is humility.

And they hated us. Because we looked like a bunch of a, how do I say this in a politically correct way? You don't. You know, no, but we look kind of like a, uh, uh, uh, uh. You guys did look different. Yeah, but in a time where we knew it was not, it was not cool. But you didn't always look like that. Like, I think that's, that's your first record, right?

So I think like when you were a local band, like you kind of evolved. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Into that level. Yeah, yeah. We had the LA look. We had dickies and, you know, kind of like that. I remember Ted's had the mechanic suit. Yeah, which I thought was cool as hell.

We had like a solo cheekish, whatever. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah. That was interesting. I had a bandana over my head. Let's have another drink, fellas.

Oh, dude. We were all, you brought my mind. you know who's fiending you know what at some point we gotta cut them off no joking oh yeah no joking joke in joke oh yeah jay has an evil look in his eye right now he's like dude i need i need more dad he's like you guys are talking crazy shit now let's me a bigger one there you go oh bro didn't you uh didn't you have uh red banks at some oh yeah i used to have like there was all all our first record so there's a band that shall remain nameless no let's this let's just let's just i don't want to talk

shit, honestly. Come on, man. Let's do it. Nobody good. No, he has one. Yeah, I used to have some stupid hair. Like, I did some stupid shit. Who was talking to smack?

But no, there's a band that will remain nameless. Nobody big, nobody good. Those quote, chamber. No, no, no. Okay, so this band is from like the third or fourth wave of new metal. Oh, got it. Like, their first record came out, I think, in like 2000. and three or two

or sub-shed. Like the flaws? Sure. Okay. So I saw their video I don't know if you remember there was MTVX for a minute. I never heard of that. Okay, so there was a thing called MTVX.

It was all metal. And they would just like, fucking play our shit, your shit. Wow, I never seen that. Yeah, MTVX. Cool. It was like a metal MTV. Okay. It was the metal branch of MTV or whatever.

So I saw this band's video as like fucking, and I see the guitar player. He's fucking like pierced everywhere, right? It's like doing that shit. And I'm like, all right, dude, my piercings are coming out. Like there's no way, no way I could be anything like this, dude. Oh, wow. So I just pulled all my piercings out.

That's why if you see our, on our third record, I don't have any piercings I just had my ears pierced Okay so let's go back to Who that bad was Who that was? No who was Where did you get the piercings from

Scum did them No I know but where did you get it from Oh where did I get them from? No from even scum like Like Like For you? Is that where you going with this?

Let's go Oh no it's 100% No because I think at the time Like a lot of people had piercings But it wasn't like a thing No You're not getting Miggs's...

Yeah, give me my fucking dude You want your credit? Yeah I don't know I did that stupid trend Okay, okay Do Mike pierce his dick Because Mings has dick pierced

No, I don't No, I don't Okay I don't have it I've only had My ears and my eyebrow pierced I didn't even have my nose Or anything like that

But I had two on my eyebrow One of them I actually Ripped down On stage What the fuck is that? Yeah, what the fuck is that? Come on, bro. Well, where'd you get the haircut, man?

I don't know I don't know what made me do that That was one of the dumbest things I've ever done Yeah, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever done I own up to it It's all good, man I'm, you know But like, I mean, look, I'm like fucking, I don't know

What am I there? 20? 20 years old man, motherfucker You look like 35 there Fucking ready Yeah But you still look the same Kind of.

No, well, thanks man I mean, I'm like 70, but you know Yeah, getting there Yeah, you guys And the haircuts, man It was another level Yeah, but see, like after that That was all our first record

After that I told it to fuck down And it was more about, you know That's third record You know what's funny I'm like is we're very similar Like if you do something And then you see someone else do it Okay then you stop doing it

Right? It's weird It's like a weird thing Well because it wasn't like I invented piercings Like I knew that. You know, I kind of bid him on that. Come on, boy. Give me my dude, bro.

There, you got your due? Good. Here, cheers. Have your due. Dude, let's get all our incentives. So it wasn't like, you know, I didn't have the patent on piercings. But, you know, it wasn't very many people who, yeah, he didn't. Yeah, for sure. But there was a very many people that had that.

And then when it became like this, quote, unquote, mainstream thing, I was just like, I'm done I cannot have anyone compare me to this dude who shall remain nameless Be honest Are we gonna tell me Afterpod

Huh Tell me after pod Who that band is Give me After After tell me I mean No no no

I'm not friends with them I don't even know They weren't from L.A They weren't very good What'd you say Huh That's blah I'm a good catcher

I'm a good You actually are. I'm a great guesser. Dude, I'm not going to say shit. You actually are. It's him saying. If you talk New Metal, I would, I'll just go straight to the dates and make up connections. This dude likes, I love, knows more about New Metal than me.

Like he literally is like, he knows this shit. But I know like, I know that much about like, let's say like the 80s medal. Are you talking about like Skid Row and all that? Yeah Oh dude, no, no, I know that shit I know that shit I know that shit Okay

Okay, let's do trivia Okay Ask an 80s metal question So it sounds like Like the music kind of stem from Like you know Like the Skid Row's Mott

So there was influence from Skid Row Mali crew 80s metal I never really put two into Tunesri together Well like I said I think it's also like a vibe and attitude.

We were also into like, I'm sure, I'm sure me and him had a lot of the same influences. Pantara, Sabletura, fucking... Simbaura is massive, man. Metallica. Metallica, of course, Metallica, Slayer. Actually, you know what? I didn't get into Slayer until I was, like, well into my playing ears. Bro, me too, dude.

Sabbath. Yeah. Like, me and your guitar player, Mark, we actually clicked on Randy Rhodes. because Randy Rose is the reason I play guitar. Okay. No shit. Yeah. Really?

Yeah. Hmm. You know it's weird? Dude, a lot of like the, like the new metal guitar players are so inspired, but like shredders. So I was always kind of fascinated by that. See, Randy Rose wasn't a shredder to me. It was just like the melody of it, dude. Yeah.

Like his technique obviously is amazing. Well, I mean, in a tasteful way. But yeah. But we were, when we were touring together on that music as a weapon tour, remember there was like always like one low. local opener. Oh, yeah, yeah. Me and Mark were hanging out backstage.

Like, not backstage, you know, like next to the stage. Yeah, it was like outside. Yeah. And there was like, that was this kid. He was like in one of the local bands. And he was just sitting there on his like little practice. I'm just going just doing these sweeps and arpeggios, you know, and all this other shit. And I'm like, dude, like somebody shut this idiot up, bro.

Who was it? It was some kid, bro. Some kid in a local band. just and then I forgot who the stage manager was and he's he's walking by as I'm saying this and I'm and he's going like oh you just mad because you can't fucking play like that oh wow I'm like yeah I can't play like that I'm like but can that motherfucker actually play on time and write a song yeah yeah those are very separate things yeah songwriting and playing and and chops you know I mean like I've never been like a choppy dude like I've never had you know

I can't do sweeps to save my life but you know who's a perfect example of what you're It's like a dying bag. Like the shred and tasteful and just beat, and you know, everyone. But that's why he's the shit. I call him. That he is the goat, you know, like he's like a metal like, dude, no. Or Zach Wilde, if you take it. Like, he's got riffs and he can shred, but he does it tastefully.

I mean, even if you go back to the generation before them, you know, the Eddie Van Halen and Randy Rhodes debate, whatever. Oh, you tell me about Eddie Manhattan and Randy Road? Oh, dude. Straight up Eddie man. Randy Rhodes. Bro. I'm not going to discount anything Eddie Van Halen did.

He was probably a lot more influential. But as far as my personal taste go, like I'm a Ray. Randy Rhodes is the reason I play guitar, bro. Bro. Not Eddie Van Heller. Fuck. But I'm not going to discount anything. Eddie Van Halen did.

It is like, oh, okay. Yeah, but both those guys knew how to write songs, head chops, head taste. They could play circles around anyone. But Eddie Van Hanlon, okay, maybe he wasn't the first, but he literally invented something. Like, Randy Rose, yeah, don't, but he was, great, but like he was, I heard it out like,

that's awesome, but like Eddie Van Halenlin was like, UFO landing on Earth. Straight up. Okay, so that were hitting, bro. He was literally that guy. Right, and that's, and he was, that's what I'm saying. He was way more influential Eddie Van Hylen was than Randy Rhodes

Because Randy Rhodes literally made two records And he passed away God rest of soul He got to rest Eddie's soul too For sure And I'm not discounting talent But look I'm very like passionate about Like this

Like Eddie Van Hennel it When I, okay When you heard Irruption or that right You're like Like Please tell me Because I could tell you where I was at

And my mouth dropped to the floor And I go This is like an alien fucking yeah when I heard Mr. Crowley I was like what the fuck

this motherfucker no no no he definitely took the classical thing and that was awesome but the melody of it no no no and dude

I'm not I'm saying Eddie was more of a other than eruption if you really think about it and we're all guitar players we all know this shit other than eruption

Eddie wasn't like a classical dude it was like it was literally like playing blue scales really fast with really great technique. Meeks is pissed.

It's like kind of like, like other than that, like, oh, besides your option, like you mean the staple of everything that is literally what capsules, like an actual invention, and then at the same time,

melody, and at the same time, you're like, oh, I'm not discounted it. I'm not discounted what he did. No, no, I know. And I'm not discounting. Let's put it.

Let's do this. Let's fucking scrap. But tell me one thing about Randy. Do more shots. We're fucking scrapping. What do you want me to tell you about Red Rose? I think it's the fucking Doreen fucking vodka. I'm about to fight this motherfucker.

No, no, but I'm saying like... Salmote away. So tell me something about Randy Rose, which I'm not saying it's not... But to that... Okay, here's a perfect example. When even when a girl goes... I know that's a true test. When girls are like, oh, what the...

I just know. And Randy was awesome. But when someone has a control that... it's penitonic, and then it goes into tapping, which is like people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then it goes into fluidity in terms of like, it's almost singing. And Randy Rhodes did, and he did melodic shit,

but it was like a classical kind of like. Yeah, it was a different thing. It was a niche. I think Eddie Van Halen was more broader, and he brought something to girls, guys, everybody. I'm talking about broader as a guitar player? Broader in terms of like, dude, when you could make a guitar,

not only invent and also sing not saying that Randy wrote into that but he was, it was a niche he was just doing, he was doing very talented like, whoa, cool, but it was classical, those scales that you're like, oh, I know where you're going with this and I'll tell you what, I think it's the

vehicles that those bands were in. So if you look, like Eddie Van Halen's singer was David Leroth. Randy's singer was Ozzy, right? Eddie, it was more his band than Rod's band. Randy Rhodes was in Ozzy's band. So we wonder what Randy would have done? What would have done if, well, it was quite right prior to Ozzy.

He wasn't. That was like kind of his band. But I don't think Quiet Riot developed enough with Randy to be on, you know, Van Halen level. I mean, however, I'm not going to discount either of them. They're both amazing. But if you're talking like my preference out of the two, I'm going to take Randy. No, no, and that is like that preference.

I mean, what do you want to say, bro? Let me say something. I don't know. But like when Eddie Van Halen, even the rhythm is like, like, like, it's a, like a dime bag. Like, it's like a group that a lot of people sometimes can't even. Really? So take a riff like suicide solution like, bam. That's a sick riff, bro.

No, it is sick, but okay, how about... This is getting good. No, no, because I think I'm being funny, but I don't know if it is, but how about half a teacher, bro? That groove. What, then, da-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-. You ever, like, okay, like, we could say, yeah, yeah, but try to do that, whatever, a triplet or whatever. Actually, the groove in Van Halen is all Alex.

No, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's that swingy, like... Swing shit, yeah. And Alex is, um, um, Kind of like, dare I say, the continuation sort of and definitely more technical than like bottom. He's got that like swing. Oh, that's a fucking hot take as a motherfucker, right? Like, woof. You went there, bro.

I feel hot. That's hot as fuck. Dude, I don't want to get angrier. Speaking of a drummer, is Mikey going to join us? Is it too scary? Dude, his pussy hurts. Oh, so he decided to stay home because he had to put a tampon on. Okay.

Okay. We love Mikey, man. We love Mikey. Mikey is dealing with, like, COVID, and he just goes, you know what? I just, you know, be respectful and, like, and just, you know, whatever. Just in case. It's in case, because, you know what, I do have family. I do have, you know, and they're older, like, in their, you know, whatever anybody thinks,

I don't want to take this in a, you know, that type of thing. I just don't, even if it was just a flu, I don't want you near me. I don't want to get my family, my mom and dad sick or my, nobody. So it's like, it's a respectful thing.

He goes, I just want to respect and you know, you know, blah blah, blah. Whatever. And I go, cool. I go, but I am going to talk shit.

Of course. So Mikey being like my, like, almost counterpart of like how, you know, like, you know, Mikey seem like great friends.

We are great friends. But to be great friends, you gotta fucking build up the fuck at each other. Of course. You know how many times he said Or I said to him about fucking your mom or whatever Like it's like really bro Like you want me to call right now and put it on the phone

And you tell her that? Oh yeah No, no I'm just saying like The shit talking gets so crazy But that means that we don't get insulted That means you're a great friend right So if you could just go there and you're like They're like oh no shit

Oh boy that was good you know Yeah that means like cool Of course if it's another motherfucker talking like that You're like oh you're gonna fucking You're going to beat ass, but with him, like, oh, no shit. That was pretty clever, bro. And I don't know if I should talk about this, but you and Mikey had another band. That, like, I think you went from one singer to another, and you got another singer.

You played a few shows. Yeah. They were so fucking good, man. Really? The second rendition of that band was, like, fucking, we are the right. So fucking good. Really? Oh, I thought so, too, man.

Thank you. I think you were the only fan, but thanks. No, dude, I saw you guys, like, play at the Viper Room. Yeah, thanks, man. You guys are fucking awesome, man. All right. We are the riot. Yeah, it was more of a rock and roll.

It was good. It was a great band. Thank you, man. We actually shared a rehearsal studio with you guys for a minute. Actually, well, okay, so the story with him, yeah, it was just more of a, it wasn't Cold Timmer at all. No, no, no, no, it was cool. It was a great band.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It was just riffy and, like, you know, melodic and, like, punky. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I had, like, those elements, you know, you know, we just, you know, like, everything I've done, like, it's like, I didn't want to do the culture or everything or whatever. I just wanted to, you know, do something different, you know. Dropty. I think it was dropty. Yeah.

Which is fucking, I would never, ever think about that. But I go, I'm going to do dropty and make it fucking, you know, like it. fucking, you know, like... Dang, going to drop D. Drop D, bro. But if you play it right, it's... I mean... I mean, shit, dude, like I-O-Me and those guys,

they did, like, heavier shit in E, or E-flat. E-flat. E-flat. Oh, wow. This is not going to stop. No, bro. No, we could go on all day, dude. But you know what?

And that's being said, like, how about this? Dimebag. Dude, dude, that is like the master. Like for Eddie Van Hanen to put his own guitar in his coffin Because he goes I'm gonna give him an original Deserves an original So he gave him the guitar that's probably worth

Fucking millions or whatever He put it He goes this He could Because uh He never wanted that guitar so bad He goes when he died He goes

I gotta give him this guitar The Wow So how'd you Here's a question How'd you get into Pantera Wow How do I get into Panama?

Yeah Okay I'm gonna tell a story Like I went to go see Skid Row, Irvine Meadows. Are you fucking with me? Skid Row. That's how I got into him. Exactly.

Dude, because we're like old as fuck. So, uh... Irvine Meadows. Irvine Meadows. And I was like, Skid Row, Skid Row. And then I heard Pentow, like, I heard... And I go, fuck. And they were doing a signing in Tower Records or something like that.

And I went there as a little kid. So... 1922. Something like that. Slave to the Grind Tour. The Abboters were like, they signed in. They were like, like, this or whatever. and I was like a kid with long hair.

So I have that picture, a little Polaroid or whatever. Is that where you got that picture? Yeah, and I showed it to them like when I was touring with them. I go, bro, you know, like, you know, of course I hear this all time. I go, but I got to tell you something. And I share the same birthday as Steinbach. And I was like, I got to tell you this because, you know, I know you get this all the time, but I have to tell you this.

Like the influence and the impact that you had on me, like, and here's a picture of me as a kid. And they were like, oh, no fucking shit, you know? You know, it's funny because before I was like, we were just, you know, getting momentum. Like, I saw that, I saw dying back. This is how I know he's really in a different league. Like, he would come to my shoulders and like just air guitar, like, big truck or whatever.

You know, for someone to be that, like, prolific and shreddy and just to sit back and go and just, and I was just like, bro, that was like heartfelt. I was like, I can't believe dying back Darrell is headbanging in every guitar in my riff. That would fucking make me nervous. No, it blew, it fucked me up.

I go, and he didn't give a fuck. He was, I said everybody's up. And he was just headbanding, go, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I was like, fuck, this, that's my idol. And he's mimicking something that he could probably do when he's sleeping. You know what I mean?

Like, you know what I mean? Like big truck or whatever. And that felt good because it's like, okay, this is a different beast. You know, he could... He's a cool dude. He could just, he could, like, you know, like this, that... He wasn't a shredder, like, dude, I could fuck everyone.

Like, you know he could fuck everyone. You know, he just... That's the different. Like, he just... But then he could go, oh, bum, boom, boom, bum, bum, whatever, and fuck shit up, too. That's a difference. I'm like, God damn, that's my idol, man. That is literally Eddie Van Hanlon, of course, and, you know,

just all around. It's just a tour you're talking about? Yes, Slav of the Grand Tour. Pantera and Skid Row. I was at that show at that's how I got. Is it only two bands? Yeah. Wow.

Yep. Irvine Meadows, dude. Wow. Pantera kind of blues. I mean, I was a huge Skid Row fan, obviously. Pantara, like, fuck shit out, bro. They fucked it up. I call a dime back.

He's a bilingual guitar player because he can speak both languages, rhythm and tread. Yeah. Yeah. And there's not very many of those. No. No. No.

No, but do it and do well, you know? It's like, you don't play leads at all, huh? No. I have no interest. Yeah. Yeah, just rhythm and rhythm, songwriting, and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm more on that.

I mean, I did play a few leads on our last record. I'm like, like, not the greatest lead guitar player ever. Yeah. I don't really give a shit about shredding, but, you know, like, anytime I did do a lead, it was always like, I'm going to try to make it, like, a little tasteful. Yeah. Like, you know who I love as a lead guitar player is an address.

From Seville Tour. Oh, yeah, yeah. He is fucking sick. Yeah, but it's, it's, I love how he uses noise. Hmm. To shape sound. He does have his own, it's funny. Like, I couldn't put a word to it, but yeah, he has his own, his own noise.

Yeah. It's like, it's like a siren thing he did. And I was like, oh, that's, that's Andre's. Yeah, he's, yeah, he had, like, his own. He definitely has a signature, you know what I mean? Okay, can I say something? And if you guys don't agree with this, I'm going to fucking walk out. So, okay.

Tom Marello, baby. Yeah. Tom Marello? Are you sick? Yeah. He's cool. Okay, so, yeah, Tomarlo's the shit. He's cool.

But remember on... He's cool. He's cool. He's cool. You don't like Tomarillo? No, I do. He's awesome. No, because it's like he, like, changed the way I saw things.

That's how he... Yeah, for sure. He's definitely got his own thing. I mean, he's Tom Marello, bro. But you know, like, he's like... like that uh in detach where I look like that that that with the toggle switch. Yeah. So everybody

thought I stole that from Tabarello which I didn't. I stole that from Randy Rhodes. Oh, it's he's going back. Come on bro. Mike Mike he just he just really conversation. I'll open up

I'm opening up old words bro. No no no no you know what? You're right. You're right. But I would have I saw a lot of shit like like kind of things that were like he was just doing something so left field you know like I was like

oh shit because I saw him opening up for body count and dude I've never seen opening for body game yeah dude they wouldn't even they were local band and they were selling cassettes for five bucks rage was yeah

should buy one? Yeah I told my uncle because I was a located manco I go whatever it takes can you just grab me one of those so it's like they came out and it was so like you're like

And then he knew hoods and then he just started doing all that scratchy shit. But now it was obviously commonplace, but like back then it wasn't. And I was like, whoa, dude, this is mind-blood. So I'm so grateful and blessed to have been part of things, movements that were, you know, like, made me, my rewired my mind, you know. I wasn't just part of like, oh, I just can, you know, do this. Everyone's doing that. No, no, I was just like part of revolutions, you know.

like a revolutionary kind of movement. In music, yeah. Yeah, dude, it felt like that. I was like, whoa, it was like inventive. They're actually one of the reasons we got Garth to do Hyde Calstas and then he ended up doing

the record after that too, self-de-sirch pattern. Really? Yeah, Garth did the first rage record. Yep. Oh, he did. Yeah, Garth, that was recorded at Town City, correct? Yes.

Cool, yeah. Good, good, Garth. Yeah, he did your second record. He did the first Muddivain. There's something about that fucking that's a little time period He's like, wow He's a fucking motherfucker He did mudveined?

He did Mudvain and then he did Hyde Calistus and as we were doing stuff He was like They kept setting him stuff back for like They needed like little interludes for mastering Like all that stuff on Mudvain So I heard that mudvane record As it was like being kind of

He's serious? Yeah before anybody had How was it? I mean it's as one of my really favorite records especially of that era that first mudveing record yeah there's something special about it it's really special

yeah dig like dig's fucking awesome um uh what's that i i don't really know the names of songs honestly they just throw it in but that what's that te deen te deidid internal primates is that it yeah internal primates yeah that's a sick

physical and internal primates yeah and mad i mean that band like the musicianship in that band is fucking like next level shit the bass player bro right yeah but mad the drummer yeah just like all that like poly rhythms and shit he does weird timing you know

I was like fuck dude like we would because we did quite extensively toured with them like at Ozfest we did a disturbed tour with them where both of us opened all kinds of shit and just watching those guys you know like the simplest

end of that band is actually the guitar player right but he's not playing simple shit at all it's just like when you got everything else in like different type signatures and for him to kind of like just keep up with that

yeah it's tough you know what I mean Greg right yeah Greg Greg I mean yeah the musicianship in that band is like some other it's crazy dude yeah we talked for them

you know like that motivation yeah you just did yeah and I was like looking at what they're doing I'm like first of all like Ryan like the shit he's doing like it's like almost like jazz uh like i was like who the fuck

does that like as a bass player sure i mean dude he's doing shit you're like what the fuck you know that's crazy to me like i was like i was like i was watching him and he's so prolific with like you know he's doing chords and slides and you know like on beats and like on guitars that are he's He's on his own world. So I've got to give him problems, man. I'll actually tell you a recording trick that I found out they used, because we use the same team, right? Same engineers, Garth, that they used on recording their first record.

So not only did they mic as like amp and di it and all that other shit, they actually had a mic on his, like, strings. In front of the bass as he was playing. I never heard that. Yeah. to get like all the little nuances and the fucking... Wow. That is fucking dope, dude.

How was that... How was that tour, Meeks? It was awesome. It was like, you know, playing in amphitheaters and like, you know, like, at that moment, like, I felt like when we were playing, like, we definitely had, like, we were rolling on a kind of like on a high, like, we had, like, our shit down, like, I felt, you know. Mikey was playing on the pocket.

in between songs Des is a really great frontman like he's you know he's not timid he just knows how to speak he knows how to rile or cry like like a frontman like

when you have all that shit and I could just it makes me play better tighter and just like be more like you know you know like and having a frontman

like a song guy like Eddie just making a sound you know he told me what he did with my guitars you know like it was a comparison just in your face and it was more about like

you know like because people always compliment the son and you know like it was just like a really great tour in terms of like making us feel like you know you know alive you know it was

it was awesome yeah yeah yeah I felt like you know like I could rule the world in that tour like we all were like connected which is sometimes the hardest thing but you know as a band like that's the hardest thing to connect with your band members Oh, sure. So, you know, and when you do, you're like, oh, you're just, you know, unified.

Like, it's fucking crazy. It's special, man. It's special. No, I, I've been very blessed to have felt that. Like, you know, like, felt like energy. Like, oh, shit, you know, like, we're, like, kind of lacquered in, like, Teflon. Like, you know, we couldn't feel. We just knew, you know, it was, it was special to me.

It was special. Yeah. You guys, uh, you guys reminded me that, like, yeah, you need, like, a lone time before you guys play a show. this people was around us I'm like you guys seeing you guys kind of be separated

getting you ready I'm like oh yeah like I gotta get back to that what do you mean like we're all like in our little space or you guys are like it seems like

you guys are getting ready for the show yeah we all have our little thing and you know Mike is very you know kind of like he's a driving

like he's a beast you know like you've seen him play like he's a like he goes into shit like he gets into like look man I'm just

I'm here to destroy the drums. I'm not going to play the drums. And bleed on them. I'm going to bleed and I'm going to like I told you like he's my idol in terms of like he makes me go

that's how you make motherfuckers feel. You know because I always see drummers that are so much better like in terms of he even says like and they're like they look at him like and then and I'm talking about drummers that like like in on this type of level of technical and they're looking like I go, my drummer goes

I don't give a shit but I'm gonna I'm gonna make this I'm gonna make my drums collapse tonight and he's talking about it but he's a strong motherfucker he also is theatrical he's very showmanship I go

I think you always want to be the singer bro because you know like he's so showmanship like he's most drummers are failed singers the motherfucker can't take for shit but look at him he's like doing shit like you're like Is he okay? Like, you know, like, you see him?

Like, what's wrong with him? No, but I mean, in all honesty, you guys have always been a really good live band. Yeah, thanks, man. We, that's our strong point. We were always trying to do that. Like, I've never, I'm sure you've had him,

but I've never personally seen a shitty Coldchamber show. And I've seen Cole Chamber from like when they were a local band all the way to, I don't know, I can't remember the last time I seen. They were shitty, I think. I'm sure. They were very energetic.

I've had shitty shows. Everybody's had shitty shows. shitty shows, but I've never seen you be shitty. You know, I mean, you've always like, at least delivered a certain level of quality in a live show.

Are the, are the stories true, like, you and Desmond were getting a fist fight on stage? Is that, like, a true? Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I go, I, like, such things that had happened. I can tell you why I know that. Because my tech, Chris, was out with him.

Because this is like, like I said, we never really tore together because it was weird. They were touring. We were making a record. We were touring. They were making a record. Otherwise, I'm sure we were to tour together. Sure. But while we were making a record, my guitar tech, Chris, was out with him, taking for him.

And he calls me, he goes like, dude, the craziest shit just happened right now. So I know it's true. No idea. What exactly happened? I don't know. I wasn't there I can't say. Look, man, like, we're fucking super emotional. And I just go off.

Meeks, we need, give me, like, a sample of a show. We need, like, a solid story. Like, what, like, what, like, what happened? I love you, Des, and this is not to disparage anybody. Like, I just was out of my mind. Of course you were. We all were out of my mind. You both were.

Yeah, and I think I, I don't. You're a cold chamber, man. Yeah, and I just was, like, in a headspace was like, you know, when I said, like, oh, I just, okay. everything disappears and I'm just laser focused and I just go and this is not a right thing but it's just a vengeance or whatever

I just like I'm just out of my mind so I did fight with him on stage and nothing to be proud of because of course we're family, we're brothers but like I like all no to it I was just out of my mind I was just

an idiot with a complex of probably a lot of part insecurity or a lot of part like angry a lot of part with trauma of whatever and then I took it out on somebody that I felt was

attacking me and he wasn't I don't you know it's just a longer sort deeper but like and it kind of just went into a thing that like I said I'm not proud of but like I've made up and I go dude I'm always sorry for that I go you know no one deserves that

but I know that back then I was just a maniac like no straight up maniac not saying like oh tough guy I was just a maniac I'm just saying like a dude that you're like there's something loose you know I go and I go yeah I know and that would

that would always be with everything girls band like nothing I was just like when you just I just want to I guess the feeling of destroying the world and taking no prisoners and just go dude I don't care

It manifested in other areas. Everything. So that means that everything, I'm going to burn this motherfucker down. You know, and that is something that, look, it could probably have work. And it did work with certain elements, but I was destructive on the verge of like, I go, look, man, if I want to feel like I own shit, I'm going to burn this bridge because I'm going to cross it, burn it, fuck you going forward. You know what I mean?

And so that mentality was like, it's very, uh, uh, massive, like, uh, destructive and, uh, and on the version, like, it could have led me in a really dark, very fucking bad way. And I had my wife and I had family that were very, uh, supportive. And, you know, to have felt, I don't know. I think, I don't want to get into this type of shit, but like, because this is something I have dealt with with people. It's like to have, uh, um, um, um, to have, uh, um, um, that kind of this, like kind of that nature is not good, but it's also probably good in terms of, do you want to make a mark or you want to be a bitch?

You know what I mean? It all circles back to the movie. Yeah, I just want to break in a little more humor. But yeah, yeah, but you know, that's just the way I was. And I always apologize. And so everything I burned down, like I try to, I apologize. Not like an A thing. Like it's more like, you know, the not 12 steps,

but the things, steps that I have to take to make, even apologize to ex-girlfriends to go, look, man, I, I'm sorry. I don't want your forgiveness, but I want you to feel me, and I want you to know that I fucked up. And for me, as a human, I know that's the only way to be, because if I say something, I don't want you to say, I don't want to feel better. I just want to feel relieved that I make you feel better.

And whatever little speckle of things that I go, hey man humble and go look man look at me i'm sorry i fuck you all i fucked up you know what i mean and that's something i told dads and my girlfriend or blah blah my family but my family will always will be there to the to do death and i know that and you know as a as a motherfucker knowing that someone just be there no matter what that is not good i mean saying like it's like but put two you know what you know what's good for me is to uh go on a path like of of a of a feeling feeling like, I will stand on someone earlier, like the atonement, like the relief, like, look, man, I want you to, to just live your life happy. And I'll live in that kind of like, like that mindset of like, I think this is just what I have to do.

And, you know, like the suffering of, or the, I don't want anybody's, like, accolades or anybody's, like, I don't want that. I just want you to know that, you know, that I fucked up. And, you know, that is a big thing for a human to go, dude, I've really fucked up. As long as you don't fuck up again. No, no, no. No, and if I do, I want somebody to literally fucking punch me in the face because that is a lesson that a lot of people don't know. Like Mike Tyson said, look, dude, people talk shit until you get punched in the face.

Yeah. I go, you know what, bro? Like, for a guy like me, like, I go, dude, if someone just fucked me out. It will make me go, oh, fuck. And that's happened a lot. So I go, you learn lessons like that. So as a human, you know, you have to be like in tune with people. And I go, like, I wonder a fuck with Mike.

I wouldn't have a fuck with you. Like, why would I do that? But back then, I probably would have because I'm an idiot. But now I'm like, no, I wish I was. You never have. We've always been cool. Even when you were crazy, we're cool. But, I mean, it's tough because you, it's tough because you,

You need to be a certain way to write the music that you're writing, but unfortunately, we don't have the tools to compartmentalize it, and it manifests everywhere. Yeah. You know, it's hard, you know, I'm still. Spill over. I'm still over. I'm 38.

I'm still learning that. Like, you'll take, like, your creativity, what makes it like, you kind of be kind of emotional, but if you're not careful, it goes, a little fucking spills, spillover. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, you know, I don't want to keep going, but, like, no, like, like,

and there's also that, like, I knew. that's what it took to do something as long as, like, I felt like, oh, that was creative. But now that I'm on this path of, like, I don't know if righteousness or like, I want to take it to heaven, whatever the fuck it is. You know, whatever.

I'm just trying to make it up. Me, so you are going to heaven. You are. But, like, I go, but, but I'm also, am I losing that edge? Or, like, so I'm always, I don't know, like, my mind is like, I wake up, I go to bed

like going like it's like I go crazy because I go what can I do today to make things not just better for people but for like

for me to like have that edge over that guy that guy that guy that guy and it's like something

I don't know man it's like a hard my I can't sleep or I can't like because I think to

much and I think too much of other people. I think too much of my craft. I think, you know, whether I succeed or not, you know, like, you know, but I'm okay or fail. I'm okay with that. As long as I did my shit. Yeah. You know, you could go, that's just, I go, oh, okay, I try my best.

Do you look back at, like, those times, like in, like, those times don't haunt you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Because it's like, yeah, yeah, because, like, no one deserves, like, how the fuck do you let this little motherfucker? Talk to you that way. You know what? I mean, like, so that haunts me because, like, I just had more of a, like,

I had, I had no fear, like I said, the music and all that, but I always, it haunts me because it's like, no one fucking deserves that. Because who the fuck am I? You know what? Do you think you, because I'm a big, I don't think of rocks or whatever.

I just, I just had a lot of, you know, you know, like, aggression. your body shoulder. Shepp on my shoulder. It's kind of tough too at the same time, especially when you're young, you're 22, 21, whatever.

You're literally like in this 45-foot tube with, you know, like eight other, nine other, ten other dudes, traveling for a year straight. Yeah, man. And everything's within reach and everything is okay. It's okay to, you know, drink a galada vodka

and, you know, like punch someone. It's okay. everything's acceptable. You know what I mean? So in a weird way, you kind of get used to that. It's kind of like a license to kill kind of thing. You know what I mean? Wow.

I don't know if you ever thought of that that way. But you know what I mean? Like we've all been through it. And it takes, and sometimes it's very easy to lose control. It is. Because, you know what? I don't give a shit what you do. Your tour manager will bail you out.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like you're living a fantasy and you're living in a bubble. Yeah. You're not in reality. You're totally in a bubble. This is not reality. Like I tell you, like, this is where it was hard and for me to ground.

And to be like that thing I do, it's like because I go, oh, everyone's human. And I'm human like, who the fuck am I? You know, like, this is a fucking fantasy. Yes, we are creative and we did create that. But like, this is not real life. Yeah, but it doesn't give you the right to. No, you can't be an asshole. Above this and that.

But all of a sudden, then you got, you know, you got a whole. other group of people, be it, you know, I don't know if it's your management, your record label, whoever it is, even, you know, fans that are just kind of feeding it, feeding it, feeding, it, like they're feeding your ego. And you have to be one really grounded person to kind of like not let that affect you. And it's really hard to do. And sometimes you lose control. It's almost impossible.

It's almost, it is almost impossible. Yeah. It's like such, yeah, it's so fucking. You know, I mean, like, imagine, like, people think, oh, dude, you, you're a feet tall and you have big muscles, and they tell you over and over. Yeah. And everything's acceptable, you know? You know? Yeah.

You actually believe the stupid hype. You start believing your own bullshit, you know what I mean? But it takes being older and white. Yeah. Unfortunately, unfortunately, a little. A few failures, you know. A lot of failures in age, you know, you get that perspective, you know. Humble, you know, be humbled.

Yeah. It sucks. man. You don't think I want to be Keith Richards. You know, like, just fuck it. You'd be successful from here till you're 120.

You know, like... 120's good. Yeah, you're like, fuck it. But you know who I met? I mean, it's not like I'm friends with them or anything, obviously. I'm sure you met him too.

Tony Ayomi. I didn't remember him. You guys tore with them, don't you? Oh, it did me, no. I guess. Well, no, I'm not even talking funny.

Like, I think you're right. I don't okay let's see So anyway Like I mean you're talking about Tony Iommi dude Like the The godfather of anything that's metal The dude that like literally Gotfather a riffed dude right

The baddest riff writer of all time You know arguably One of them at least Dude one of the most humble Like well spoken I don't know You know like you see a dude like that And then it's like dude

Okay know who you are, I know what you've done, and if anybody needs to have an ego, it's you? Yeah. And then, you know, like, alternatively, you run into some douchebagging, like, so fucking fucking f***as local bed. Oops, I said it.

But, no, no, no. His name was Meigs. Oh! But I feel like the biggest rock stars is the most humble because he, like, they're, they're confident in what they did. And they treat you like a human. Yeah.

And people that are trying to go up the stairs and they'll kill their own mother. You know what I mean? Then you run into like some dude who's like, I don't know, maybe like sold out the whiskey one time in his entire life and he thinks he's the shit.

I've seen that. It's so weird. You know, it's like, bro, like that dude was one of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life and had like maybe a five-minute conversation with them. And what are you going to tell Tony Ayomi that like he's the best?

Yeah. Yeah, sure. He hasn't heard that before. Yeah. You know, but just on that level, you know, it's, it's kind of crazy that, you know, that happens. Yeah. Yeah. How was it like for you, Mike, when that transition from your first record to the second record, because then things, and that, that, like, year or two, I think the whole world changed.

And what, like, how was that experience for, for you recording your first record to your second? Well, okay, so our first record, so towards the end, our first record, I don't know if you know, like, We kind of, it was considered a, it was considered a failure. Really? Yeah. Oh, shit. B, we were pulled off the road because, you know, at the time, road under bands like coal chamber, like Fear Factory, like, you know, machine head, you know,

all those bands. They'd be on tour for like two years. Our first record, we toured, it came out in September, we're done by May. The reason we're done is, I don't know if you've heard of this, I know you have. we were on tour with Fear Factory System of a Down and Head PE and us Fear Factory and System of Down

shared a truck that truck got stolen all our gear got stolen and guess the only band that didn't have insurance you guys yeah so literally like your entire everything you have got stolen

all by guitars amps everybody shit drums everything I heard this rumor so yeah a semi-gou Stolen, right? A truck. It wasn't a semi.

It was a rider truck that was parked in front of the hotel in Philly. And then I guess like some people just broke into it, stole it. And then we got to the venue where the truck was got, wasn't there. Then they found it like later, I think a week later in Jersey somewhere in a warehouse, burned down. Burnt down? Yeah. And so that tour got canceled right then and there. And then we redid that tour because like I think a.

month later, everybody got gear back, and then we were, that tour continued, kind of. So what ended up happening is, we're costing road under too much money. And again, I'm going to compare it to Cold Chamber because, like, literally that was the only other band that was like, like it was Cold Chamber and then they expected Spine Shink to do what Cold Chamber did. Well, Colchamber was on tour for like two and a half years on that first record. And they, I don't know if. if they got it then or it was a damn near a gold record. And I know that record went gold eventually.

It's not damn near. It was gold. No, I know it went gold eventually. That's what I said. But I don't know. Let's go. Flex it over here. Come on, dude.

But I don't know if it was gold right then and there. But if it wasn't, then it was damn near it. I have a boy. My wall disagrees with you. Yes. There's a flag there. So in any case. Adda boy.

And then they were going to put us on tour with vanilla ice. Oh, what the hell? Remember when Vanilla Ice made a rock record with Ross Robinson? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So they were going to tour.

They wanted us to open. And then Coach Amber was about to go back on tour. And for whatever reason, we need tour together. Anyway, we got pulled off the road. And it was like, go write a new record. That was it, you know? Okay, can I ask you something?

Are you a bitter? Because I have a go-road. Yeah, it might. No, not at all. I'm actually very happy to do. You know, probably. I'm very happy that you do. But you got grabbing nominated.

Yeah, and I got grab me nominated and you didn't. So like, we will. Hey, put us together. Put us together and we're a fucking powerhouse. The power house. Dude, the three of us, we're our power house for sure. Oh, fuck, yeah. That's sick.

Fucking team effort, dude. So you got pulled off the road? So we got pulled off the road. And we're like, what do you mean, bro? We need a tour for like two and a half years because that's the thing to do. And that record at that point It sold maybe, I don't know, like 40, 50,000 If that, which, like, I mean, that's a fucking failure.

When you got a band that was just as funded, just as this and that, like Cochamber, who did half a million, for you to sell like 40, 50,000, that sucks. Yeah. So we were at home, we were pissed, and we were writing a record. And Hyde Calcas, we definitely took a lot more seriously.

Because Strictly Diesel, I don't feel like that rep... It definitely represents the band at that time. Sure. But it doesn't represent the band. Yeah, your second record was definitely like, like, I was telling him, I would play it backstage. Yeah, yeah, that was Spine Shack. Yeah. Like the first record was like, eh, it's cool.

But like the second record was like, ah. Oh, yeah, there you go. I would play before I would go on. And it was just, me and Mikey were like, dude, this is the shit. No, thanks, guys. Yeah, no, for real. Thanks, Mikey. Yeah, yeah, man.

And, hey, Garza used to come out on when we played, where we toured together. You'd come out and do Hydocelus. Dude, that was an honor for me. What's the song? The Hydococlastus, the title track. But nobody's ever done that. You've been the only person to do that, yeah. Wow.

I was so nervous to be on Torres Spine Shank. I had to get blacked out drunk and sit in the back and ask Rob your bass player to sit in the back of your bus until you show up. Really? That's what happened. That's crazy. Yeah. I was so nervous. I was telling you this story the other day.

And he was like, dude, can I play it with you? And I'm like, yeah, bro. Fuck yeah. I'm like, but can you play? Like, do you know the song? And he, like, busted out and everything. I'm like, dude, you played better than I ever did. Well, that story, like, he went to our rehearsal and he played local.

Like, not that it's hard, but like, I was like, oh, this motherfucker has the nuances. And the thing, I was like, oh, no shit. You know, like, sometimes I feel like, oh, certain nuances. I'm going to come to a rehearsal and play local. Okay. I think I can. I think. I'm pretty sure.

So it's, you know, it's not that hard. I think the only part I don't know is that the, I don't know the, I don't know the notes of that. Oh, that's a simple one. I took it's 2.3.0, 2.3.2.0. 2.1. Okay, whatever. It just comes up and down. So, yeah.

And then, I mean, when we did hide the calcestness, we were pissed, but we're definitely a lot more focused. It's a more complete record. We went to Canada to record it with Garth. And we took that seriously. At that point, it was like, do or die. And I feel like that's when, like, as an artist, I was, like, focused on my art. Rather than partying and chicks and whatever.

Record cakes. Yeah, the whole. Yeah, that shit. You know, it was like all about, okay, like, we're going to make a fucking record. We're not going to fuck around. And that was really the mindset when we made that. Like, I think we, at least some of us grew up.

Yeah. Yeah, when you're trying to grow up, it's hard to get everyone to grow up at the same time. Because everyone's going, living life at their own pace. And some people are still where they are on, you know, your first record. Yeah. I feel you, man. It's tough. It's tough.

Do you still talk to any of the guys, Tommy, Johnny, or Rob? Rob I talked to. Hmm. In fact, as I talked to him yesterday, he says hi to everyone. Oh, yeah, man. I love Rob. I told him, I'm going to come down here. He was like, dude.

Because he's like, let me know what you guys are going to do after and this and that. And I talked to him last night. I was like, I'm like, this is what we're doing. He's like, dude, I can't come out. I got this and that too. I'm like, that's cool. I would tell the dudes I said, hi, I love him. That's cool, man.

Hi, Rob. Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's unfortunate because it's like a, I mean, Coachman played like those, like, sick new world festivals. Find shape would be so perfect on the shows, man. I mean, it hasn't happened in a few years. But once a year, I would get a call. or an email from one of the agents in the metal, you know,

and they'd be like, you think, you know, you could do like a spine-shank reunion for this festival. I got an offer, you know, like I could get an offer for like, let's say, 10, 20 grand for this festival, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not interested. I mean, this is just my take on it at least. Sure. A, it's never going to be the way it used to be.

we're not as artists I don't think that band has anything better to offer so is our live show going to be the best ever and if it's not

there's no point yeah it's gonna majorly at least me personally it's gonna majorly disrupt my life and what are we doing this for you know what I mean

like what's the point of doing it it needs a purpose and a point yeah you know what I mean And like if you're going to say, okay, you know, we're going to offer you X amount of money, really not worth it because maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe if it was a scenario and this will never happen where, okay, I'm going to show up, play a set, and leave. Sure.

That will never happen because in order to do that, you have to have at least two weeks of rehearsals. And God knows what the fuck else is going to happen. And you need a crew. when you need, I mean, you know, we all know the logistics that go into doing this and making this happen. A lot. A lot. I'm not going to do it. It's not just, you know, like, oops, we're on stage and we're playing a show, and then later guys,

that's not going to happen. So I think, you know, I'm more of like the subscribing to the philosophy of a let's sleep and dogs lie. You know, like what we did is cool. Leave it there, man. Like, everybody needs to move the fuck on. Yeah. Whatever it is they're doing.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it was just me along with other fans, were curious. I appreciate you answering. At least that's my take on it. Yeah. And I can honestly, I will guarantee you, if Spine Shank were to play a live show, they're not going to be,

or we're not going to be. I don't even want to talk it. They're not going to be. Yeah. We're not going to be as good. We're not going to be better than we've ever been. And if that's not it, then like you're talking about some stupid nostalgia shit.

You know what I mean? Like, there's no point of that. Yeah, you're not a fan of, nostalgia at all, huh? No, because I'll tell you this, okay? So there's been like revivals, I guess you would call that. So I've seen Cochamber who are from the same era play shows now, right? Cochamber's better or at the very least as good as they've been.

Oh, thanks, man. Mike's being very nice. It's cool. You know what I mean? Like if Cochamber were a bunch of like fat old dudes barely like making it through a set, I would tell him. I'd be like, you know what I mean.

You're not fat. I said if. I know, yeah, yeah. But, you know, like, if they're not up to a part, if they can hold that standard,

then I'll let them know. I'll be like, okay, you guys are, you know, that kind of sucks. Don't do that. Like,

I just saw Kymira play that incarceration thing. You know, I saw videos of that. Fuck, man, they sound fucking great. I honestly,

I will guarantee you, Spragshake will not sound like that. They will not sound as good as we used to be. So what's the point? What are we doing? What are we chasing? You know, I mean? Like, is somebody offering, like, some insane amount of money that, like, you never have to do shit again? No. No. There's no point. There's no point. You're not serving the art. You're not serving your history, whatever history that is, or whatever legacy that we do have.

It's not like we're like some huge men or anything like that. But, you know, like we did leave an ex, we left a mark. Totally. On something. One 100%. And I respect that enough for me not to want to tarnish that. By doing something else stupid. You know what I mean?

That's my take on it. Interesting. Yeah, because nostalgia is like a real thing, man. Yes, it's a real thing. Well, we've all had ex-chicks, right? Like, what would be the point of being with that ex- chick. It didn't work out then. Like, it was cool then.

Yeah. But, like, you know, I had a chick when I was like, let's say, 25, 30. Sure. You know, I'm 47 years old, and she's like, let's say, 45. Yeah. It ain't the same, bro. That's never going to happen again. Yeah.

It was cool then. Let it be then. Let it be a cool memory in your head. You know, like, whatever. If you have pictures, put them up on the walls. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a lighting in a bottle. Yeah.

Sometimes things are just like that. Yeah, I think every period in your life, whether it's personal, professional, whatever, has its time. You know, I mean, it's cool then. It's a, if you've left something, if you left a mark on the world, on the world of music,

whatever it is, the world of business, it's cool, man. Let it be there. Learn from it, move on. Progress. Well, at least you took that And manifested that into a career now You're talking a whole new

A whole new journey Right, right You know Because because of the musicians are obsessive and crazy So you could channel that passion Into something else, yeah I mean, you know That's cool, you know

Like I'm not a different person I mean I'm different in a lot of ways But in a lot of ways I'm the same person Mm-hmm You know, I mean As you grow like The things that were important to you Are not important anymore

And then like some shit that you didn't think would ever be important to you is all of a sudden important. That is true. And now getting older, family is important, more important, a future family is important. Yeah. Your girlfriend or your wife is important. Yeah, that kind of thing. Family stability. Priorities are, you know, changing, you know.

Yeah. As long as it's in the right direction, I guess, change, then it's all good. you know or at least like i said it's all a journey dude like we're all of us we're going to get to a point where we're no longer going to be on this planet yes did you really accomplish everything you wanted to that's that's that would be the question you know like how was your journey on this planet you know did you how many people did you piss off megs is not stokes yeah yeah yeah well just one person a lot just it's just it's just just a singer.

A lot. Dude, what's up with Desz, man? Oh. Is he okay? Well, okay. So, obviously, we put it out there that we had a reschedule because, so he has, like, so years or years ago, COVID, he did affect his heart. And he's always had kind of like an issue.

He had to go to doctors. He, so the thing is that he, in his house, he collapsed, right? Like, so they took it in a hospital, they don't know what the hell, like, it's either straight, I don't know. We don't know, he's still going, getting cat scans and all that, but, so we were like, we were like, fuck,

we, we, you know what, I don't want that to happen. Well, we're playing, like, like a five, six week tour, you know, so we're like, you know, when we need reschedule and then, you know, so that's what we did. And, uh, so we're adding more dates

and we're just going to make it bigger, meeting, greet, everything, the whole thing. So we are, at this point, we are playing Aftershock. It is one show. There's enough time for him to rest. And, you know, it's like 30, 45 minutes,

whatever it is. It's a short set. 45 minutes probably. And so we're going to do that. And then something happens, obviously. But it's, yeah. I mean, you know, we're rooting for him. And hopefully, like, you know,

he just takes a proper doctor's advice and just, you know. Yeah. You know, we're all getting old. man and we're all just you know we gotta take care of ourselves man yeah man we're not 21 in you know invisible yeah yeah yeah so wish you wish it well for me man yeah yeah for sure yeah he would appreciate that yeah i'll tell yeah man yeah it's scary dude yeah it is scary man because you know like you're your friends not especially now that we're bonded back and you're like oh no shit and he goes he called he got i'm sorry man like he just and it's it's it doesn't

But I don't, we don't care about, we just care about his health. So we want to make sure he's okay. And then, you know, like if I have to really believe this, he will be okay. So we put all our, you know, like put it out in the universe, you know, he's going to be okay. You know what I mean? Like, you know, he has to be okay. Because, you know, I wanted to, if the band didn't even, like, do anything again, it just wanted to just be happy and live life and, you know, be okay.

That's the, you know, at this point Yeah, that should be your main concern, you know Yeah, yeah It sucks, man, so COVID really fucking hit him Yeah, I mean, like he, he's affected it's hard Like, he has like some, look, I don't know the specifics But he definitely, every time he plays, he goes, Dude, like, I don't breathe, it's, I get winded

in a weird way or whatever, and he goes, dude, it's just like, oh, fuck, you know, he's always happening, and every show, like, yeah, you know, I was like, fuck, dude. Man. So it's like one of those things I'm like, you know, it's life and we're just... And you guys still go off too. You guys still go off too.

Yeah, and that's a big part of our shit. Maybe you guys should do like an acoustic tour. Yeah, we should. We should just play like, yeah. Nadia doing a, like a stand-up bass. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever hear Nadia's other band, Farmer?

Yeah. I loved it. Fuck. that song they had, I did like a remix on it. Oh, you did? Yeah. They were mixing it and I did a mix. I have it somewhere. I forgot what it was called, the song.

So good. Really good band. So fucking good, man. Yeah. And now they had this band, like, you know, like at one point and it was like a, kind of like a, like, what do you call it? Like... Verna Mesmer? Yeah, it wasn't heavy. It was...

It was rock. It was... Rock, yeah. I don't know. I have the track. I'll, maybe with Nadia's permission, I'll send it to you. Sick. It's so good, though.

So good, bro. Hell yeah. It's cool to see you still fucking anthem music. It's nice. Yeah. You know what? I'm not. Like, if you notice, everything I talked about it's like from back then.

Mm-hmm. I don't know anything about the scene. I don't know what's going on in it. I don't think anyone does. I don't know anything about any, like, like, literally, your band is probably like the newest band I'm into. That's sick. sick. You guys are a fresh new band.

We're a brand new band. I don't know, like, I don't know anything that, like, really came out after you guys. Wow. I know nothing about it, really. That's crazy. That's sick. Do you, I mean, well, to be honest, I'm in the scene. I'm in it.

And I don't really know what's going on. So it's pretty, it's fucking impossible. There's so many bands and this shit going on. It's, you know, it sucks. Yeah. A lot of brain power. Yeah. Love it.

Love it. Yeah, actually, I owe her a bottle I owe her a shot of vodka. Because me and her we're always talking about vodka. And then, so maybe I'll give her a bottle next time I say her. You should. Sick.

I hate going back to, keep going back to NRG for that, dude, that fucking timeline was just just like, it started like everything. So you went there because of Jay? We went there. Yeah, Jay Gordon was the reason. Wow. Yeah.

How do he find it? Not sure about that, but I know he, either he was friends with Jay Baumgartner or he just pulled a favor and like, dude, you got to get this band in. What the hell? Yeah. Because first it was white zombie. I think it's the most, the oldest band that was somewhat heavy that recorded there for Astro Creep.

And then it was the self-title code chamber. and then Strictly Diesel and Paul Lady were recorded around the same time And then that's just like then Everybody went there Well yeah Corn, I mean we were only there for two months

Corn was there for probably like six, seven months That's insane And this is like when they were going through their Corse light phase Of course Yeah I don't know why anybody would be Did corn go there because of Jake Gordon you think?

Why did they go there? You know that that record was like, weird. Wait. I think, who the fuck produced that record?

Was it Steve Thompson? That is a big... Steve Thompson started it, but then he wasn't there. They got rid of him. And it was, if I'm not mistaken, was it Toby Wright?

Yeah. It's a mystery, but I mean, from outsider, I could only assume that Steve Thompson was there and then Toby Wright

engineered. Yeah. From what's Clues that are out there and conflicting stories. It's so bizarre the record that massive and important. Like, it's not really a clear story or answer. Because I remember seeing Toby there. I don't remember seeing anyone else there.

And David was already done because, like, from what I heard, and this definitely needs verification from someone else. But David came, played every song once, and it was like, later. Make it happen, guys. Drummer's. Literally, like he would just play a song once, and then I would be like, okay, you got what you need.

I'm out of here. If you don't have it, make it happen. ProToolet, whatever. Man, I got a... This is the story I've heard. Yeah, I think it heard the same thing. Because every other dude in that band was always at the studio. Monkey was there, head was there, fieldie was there.

Like, they had a bunch of crew guys, you know, entourage or whatever. Jonathan was there, obviously. I've never seen David there. Ever. Wow. I'm kind of somehow verify that story. Wow.

This is a rumor. You know, don't quote me on it. I wouldn't doubt it, dude. I wouldn't doubt that. It doesn't seem, you know. It's not that far fetch, really.

Honestly, it isn't. Such a different time and everyone really knew how to play their shit. Yeah, it's, I've had to verify that somehow. Shit. Yeah.

It was a fun studio to be in, though. Yeah. How did it feel in there? Because people like me, like, that's like, I can only, like, I've only heard the stories and see, like, all my favorite records are there. I just, like, as an outsider and a fan,

just like, man, what, what was it like in there? You know? I mean, it was cool. Like, honestly, at the time, I can't really compare it to any other studio. Because that was literally the first, like, real studio.

that we were in. Prior to that, remember, like, in the back of music connection, there was, like, you know, eight songs for fucking thousand bucks come and record. Yeah, yeah, right. That's the kind of studios we were in

with, like, a little Mackey console, you know what I mean. Yeah. So NRG was, like, the first real studio we were in. Yeah. From that point on, I mean, we definitely have recorded

at a bunch of different studios. We did, like, I had a call out of Musherom in Vancouver. self-destructive was done at like a million different studios at Hanson which is like the old A&M Larrabee

we went to Canada for a while on it we fuck and it was mixed at NRG wasn't it? Yeah self-destructive was mixed at NRG by Jay Baumgartner we had the battle of the mixers on that bro that record was a fucking motherfucker to make it sounds like you guys got a lot of bad luck

along the way sometimes it seems no it's just that record at that point it was like it was like okay you're going platinum or bust wow that's the kind of pressure we had on us and I mean the band started kind of like pulling away from each

other on high to callusness on self-destractive those cracks were just like solid bro you know like you couldn't tell but there was like definitely you know this camp and that camp on that record

and it was tough to make that record like we did on violin mood swings we did vocals like four or five times in four or five different studios like even while we're mixing were no vocals on it. That was tough because there was just too many cooks in a kitchen on that record.

And I think given the circumstances, it turned out really good. But I think it could have been a lot better. So it's a bizarre, yeah. It has some of your biggest songs. Yeah, you guys were nominated for a Grammy. Yeah, which was weird in and of itself. I'm sure you being an artist. And as an artist and a guitar player,

that was so devoted to what you're doing. It's probably bizarre knowing all you can do with your records is you just associate the memories. Yeah. I mean, that's, no matter, no matter, what happens, you associate your memory. So you're like, oh, that record sucks

because of this and this and this, and then you get nominated for a Grammy. Probably still, probably such like a mind fuck. Okay, so, yeah, I'll tell you the mind fuck part of that. So literally we got nominated for a Grammy and we were pretty much broken up at that point. Oh my gosh.

Nobody knew. That's so unfortunate. Nobody knew. And we had just finished a like a completely sold out tour of Europe. Headlighting. And we got home and it was like basically, yeah, like we're done. Kind of thing. Another one wrote it and it was like, okay, you guys should go make a new record

because this one ain't going platinum. Because they put out the wrong single. I mean, in all reality, I get it. from a business perspective, they were 100% right, bro. They spent over half a million just recording that record. Oh, my God. Yeah, $550,000 recording budget for that record. Contractually, there was what, our third record, 50,

10 times more than they're contractually obligated, bro. And, you know, it was like, okay, guys, go home. Maybe it's time to make another record. again like not we didn't tour that long on it six seven months something like that the tours did really well all sold out and then you know it was like we're kind of done and then I get a call from Maria

remember Maria Gonzalez our publicist and she goes oh yeah I want to congratulate she had like nine in the morning bro this is like I wake up at six five 30 now in the morning back then you wouldn't see me up before 11 she wakes me up at like nine a morning going like congrats. I'm like, I'm what? She's like, for get nominated for a Grammy. I just

fucking hung up the fuck. Wow. And then she calls me back. She's like, no, I'm, for real. You guys are smothered is nominated for a grabby. I'm like, are you fucking serious? Why? Oh, what? That's... And then we lost to Metallica. That's

fucking awesome. That is so... But even then, like, so And not a lot of people know this So the whole spin on it was, okay, we got nominated for a Grammy Let's go back to Roadrunner On the, you know, on the strength of that Put out a single guys

Or re-released the single, let's do a tour You know, like, I mean, fuck, Grammy nominated Like who the fuck on Roadrunner was Grammy nominated at the time? Oh, that's true, huh? You guys bought him in the only ones? No, I think there were, But, like, nobody really, you know what I mean? Like, Slip-Doddhead, and I don't think that had got nominated yet.

Yeah. Dude, what the fuck. I don't know. I mean, this could be, this is all verifiable. But it wasn't, like, a thing. It was, like, kind of a big deal. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

Like, let's get it going. And then Roder and it was like, nah, we ain't, we ain't doing shit, guys. If you win it, if you win it, maybe. Oh, wow. But nomination, eh, you know, it was one of those things.

And they were like, all right, you know, like, what's the fucking point? Fuck, man. Sorry to hear that,

Mike. It's, no, it's good. It's all, it's, and I get it, like,

again, from a business perspective, had we had our shit together, had we not been a bunch of fucking punks, young punks, because, again,

that record I made when I was like 24, 25, um, we could have thought more of it as a business, right? And not been a bunch of idiots.

And like, let's say, hey, guys, why are we spending a half a million on this shit? Where does the money go? Studios, bro. Studios. Producers, like, per diems. We're at home for two years, like, getting paid, I don't know,

$1,000 bucks a week or some shit like that. Which in the mid-2000s was a decent. amount of money plus you're getting your publishing checks plus you get your ass cap checks you know and all that yes so you know you're you're just spending money on things and we have nothing to show for so okay as a business especially now as a business man I understand like okay you get to a point hey road owner here's road owner like and we're still taking tour support by the way headlining but we're taking tour support yeah to offset it you know I don't

know, like, ah, yeah, we need, you know, we can't make it happen to have these lights and that shit. And this crew and this bus, you know, like, oh, yeah, we need to be bawling. So. Was there someone in your band that was at least focused and made these decisions or no? Was there like a, was that supposed to be your job when you were a fucking maniac? Uh, not at that time. No, no. At that time, we, I mean, really our management.

should have been watching that kind of stuff but we're Spine Shank was always a band that was like on the edge of breaking and by breaking I mean it could have gone both ways you know by either breaking up or blowing up

like it was that kind of a tension you know what I mean always like the tensions within the band you know but it could have always like I mean we had we could have blown up we never did for whatever reason It doesn't matter. It's a fact that we never like blew the fuck up like that.

No one was steering the ship. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Because I mean, like I said, we're a bunch of punks who, for us it was a, I don't know if you ever read the motley crew book. The dirt? No. You've read it, right?

I know. And I think there's like a part of it where Nikki Six talks about like we just did shit just to do shit because there was like a motley reason to do it. Yeah. So that's kind of how I feel like We just did stupid shit because we did stupid shit Because that's what Spine Shank does What's your uh to close it off Because there's

There's a lot there What I mean you You can span this from where you started And where you ended What's your biggest regret in Spine Shank? Oh man That's such a tough question

What's my biggest regret at Spine Shank? None I'm good man I'm good where I'm at everything every one of it happened for a reason every like success failure or whatever the only thing is I'll take responsibility for all of it

and I think as a band everybody should take responsibility for the successes and the failures and that's the only way you're going to grow yes so I have zero regrets it's all good I'm proud of what we've accomplished I'm proud of

you know everything I've learned in the process of it and that's really the only thing I can say yeah it sounds like you learn a lot you know yeah you guys had a crazy fucking journey man both you guys

yeah and it continues and it's still dude it's still going yeah you get older and there's mistakes you made and then pass in your career is oh yeah those little ones the big one you're just constantly trying to fix it I mean, you're always on the edge of madness, you know what I mean?

Like I said, it could either fall apart or it could turn into greatness. And sometimes it went this way, sometimes it went that way. True. But it is what it is. You know, like I'm proud of everything me and the rest of the guys have accomplished. Good, bad, ugly, whatever. It's all good. Yeah, you guys lived a very unique life.

You know, so it's cool to see you. Mike still going. and channeling your passion. Well, I'll tell you the positive of it. Like, the positive of it is, one of the biggest positives for me is, if it wasn't for Spine Shank, I wouldn't know you, I wouldn't know you.

We wouldn't be hanging out. You know, I consider you guys like my lifelong friends. Thanks, man. No matter what happens, like, if I don't see you for the next five years, wherever I see you, we're going to pick up right where we left off and we're going to be cool. and we're going to have a shot and we're going to do this and we're going to do that. It doesn't matter where we're at.

Speaking of. It's crazy. Round three, last round? Yeah, sure. There's times of charm. You know that's funny. This is a motherfucker can talk, huh? What do you mean?

Dude, I didn't expect this conversation and go so fucking deep, dude. I didn't expect it, man. Holy shit. We're just talking, man. We're just talking. You can edit it into some cool snippets. Oh, no, this is, I mean, Oh my, you're going to try to kill me, dude.

Just, just sip it, man. So I've gotten to close it off. Yeah, by close it off, we're probably going to talk another 30 minutes. The best of the best advice I got as a artist was for meigs. Was, what's from you? Don't be a bitch. Oh, my God. Yeah.

No, I mean, that's, actually, that is the motto. Okay, so I guess from a context. Do I Dude I'll shoot it No, sip it Sip it? Yeah

But I don't want to be a bitch No, no no This is a sipper Sipper, okay cool All right You can shoot it too Cheers to lifelong friendship Lifelong bro

An art passion And art passion And our individual And collective journeys Yes Yes Okay So I asked Miggs

To be my first guitar player He said no With me a first guitar player I mean, my first teacher. Oh. And he said no, but that's fine. And then... Oh, God.

But then he... We, uh... And my girlfriend gives me shit for this, but basically when me and me drinks, that's... We call that our guitar lessons. Yeah? Yeah, so we... It's just an excuse to drink a lot. And then...

Okay. And then the best advice ever gotten was... Three things. Three things. Three things that replay in my head very often. often more than any book I read or other people I met in my life throughout my throughout my career one meeg said don't be a bitch and I've applied that so first I'm and started that then it was so I apply it to everything I do either if it's going to a gym or choosing a cookie and a salad or is it working or staying up a little bit

later waking up or playing guitar I applied to everything everything I apply it to so can I interrupt you for one second So if it's between a cookie and a salad, which one's the bitch move? I fucking love salads, though. I love salads. I get what you're trying to say. You're right. You are right.

You are right. I get what you're trying to say. Correct. I'm totally fucking with you, bro. Correct. Correct. Okay, go on. Correct.

And then, and then the same, I think you'll mind him in the same sentence or conversation. and he also said whatever you do go fucking hard yeah and I apply that to everything I do everything I do

and something I've been struggling with and then you put literally like you put me over the edge and I put the nail in the coffin and really solidified me as an artist a person this and what I'm trying to do

in my career you said you belong in the room and it meant It meant a lot to me. It really like, it really kind of, it's kind of, I was getting there, but you really, you really solidified it. So it's cool. You know what's funny? Because I think I remember, were we at a volcano or whatever restaurant?

What were we talking then? Or like, yeah. Yes. And I remember you did ask me, hey, you want to teach me guitar? I was like, what? No. But I go, look, man, for me, like lessons, I learn like talking, you know, like this or whatever. This is a lesson.

I go like, the lesson, like, dude, I can't make you play better. Like, I can't make you do your finger go here, here. But, like, it's, you know, your mind, you know, like, go, like, you know, it's like, because I know I've been taught that. And I go, oh, yeah, yeah, you know what? Like, you know, like, lessons are more like an inspiration thing, you know, so. Totally. Yeah, what am I going to do?

I can't play, like, Randy Rhodes. Mm-hmm. No, but neither can. His guitar player can. Yeah, Mark can. Mark's a sh-hmm. He's a pretty guy. He's, like, an actual, like.

He'll fuck up Diary of a Madman like nothing, bro. Yeah. Yeah, it makes my job a lot easier. I can just fucking play a couple chugs. Yeah. Oh, you do that and I'll just fucking stay over here, dude. I'll just fuck around. I'll just head bang.

Yeah, I'll just fucking headbang horror, dude, you know. No, but you know what? Like, those talks, even, like, for me, it was also, like, by the first side, like, it was, you know, to talk to, like, even with him. Like, just to talk, you know, like, and just be like, you know, I take, you know, nuggets and I take and I go oh I'll play that you know to my shit or whatever you know you know I'm just you know it's it's just that's how life works you know like you know to teach someone it's not even to teach them it's like you don't say it you just if they get something

you're like that's a lesson right there that is the lesson it is I can't teach anyone anything that's like I think if I have ever had that's one of my weaknesses let it that way like I cannot teach anyone anything I'm a horrible teacher I have zero Zero patience. All the patience. Dude, I was... So my wife's from Armenia, and she, you know, she moved. Like, I met her there.

We got married there, and then she moved here. And she didn't know how to drive. And I was like, listen, I can't teach her how to drive. She was like, what's the big deal? You can just, you know, I can just get in your car and, like... Yeah. You know, and I'm just like, no, because if I try to, we're going to get divorced. Did you see that?

Yeah. Oh, wow. I'm like... Mike. Because I'll talk to them. much shit. Like, I'm like that and I know that. So we did. And then she was like, you know what, you just, just, no. I was like, that's exactly what I was telling you. I can't do it. I can't teach anyone anything. Is that something that you want to improve or no? No, I think at this point

of my life, not really. I'm just not good at it. You know what I mean? I have no patience. I'm the dude that like, and I even try to teach him like somebody who doesn't play guitar, right yeah so like I'll be like okay here's a decode and then I go like you know like try to put their fingers there I'm like dude like one two it's kind of a hard fucking chord for me this right you tell me like where you strum acoustic yeah the D and then if the third time they don't get it I'm like what kind of an idiot are you dude it's like this yeah you know this is me I can't do it and I know it's a weakness of mine I don't you know I mean I don't You know, I mean, it is what it is.

Are not to generalize and borderline might be canceled? Are, fucking, are Armenians not known to be not a patient culture? No, no, no, no, absolutely not, though. This is just me. Okay, so this is you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, my mother was one of the most patient people on the planet, bro.

My mother, like, Nick, my partner, Nick, my boy. He's, he has the patience of a stone, bro. I don't know how he does it. Yeah, he's a good guy, man. What happened? I don't know. I don't know where I went wrong. I just, that's not one of my strong points.

You know what, dude? I consider myself pretty fucking patient, but band members will test your patience. Oh, yeah, for sure. It would exhaust any tank. For sure. I mean, being in a band is like, it's a weird thing to begin with. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, like, I think I've heard Dave Mustain say this, like a long time ago.

When they were doing like either piece, sell. or like rust in peace or something. Yeah. He said being married to like three or four other dudes without having sex with them. I thought about the same thing. Oh, yeah. It really is.

But, you know, like it's a lot easier to be married to like one person, like your wife than three other dudes who have like all their own insecurities and there are a bunch of drugs and you know, whatever. Yeah. It's tough, man. Being in a band is a tough proposition. Yeah. Because everybody looks at beating the band

Is like, okay, you know, we're musicians We're gonna go fuck shit up We're gonna get on stage and rock it. You guys are all business partners. And no one knows shit about business. And nobody knows shit about business. And then even if you have a management or this or that And then everybody's fucking with you

And everybody's out to get you. And, you know, I actually, I don't know why I actually, I don't know why keep bringing them up. Like, chimera, they had a thing. This started, like, right around their second record where each dude in a band had a job.

They had a job aside. Like, one dude was the dude that talked to management and label. Like, that was his thing. Like, it was like the liaison. Yeah, yeah. And then another dude would do like anything merch and graphic cards. Another dude would do, like, all the studio

stuff, you know, whatever. And I think if any band that would think of it in that terms, where it's like, dude, we're a partnership, we're a business, this is our living, this is how we make a living. It would be different. But sadly, you know,

when you're 22, nobody gets it and everybody's out to fucking bang chicks and drink beer and then you end up where most bands end up. Yeah, man. And then they have five people doing the same thing. They're trying to write records going tour and ban chicks. It's It doesn't exactly work for the business.

And then it will affect the music, and you're not satisfied with a statistically. You're like, why the fuck? Exactly. Yeah. So, like your band, I commend you, bro. Because, see, like, my band and his band, I mean, his band broke up, got together, broke up, got together.

My brain, my band broke up, got together, broke up, and it's over. Fuck, to persevere for that many years. Like, literally, you've been doing the shit longer than probably both of us combined. if you really think about it because suicide silence started when like 05-06 started 0-2 but full-time touring 05? 05 right

because we toured together in 09 and that was like at the tail end of your first record and I think you had finished your second record man to come out yeah yeah you're right you're right so to do it for that long

and keep it together the same band same tour you know like I got a Thanks Mike. Thanks, Meigs. Seriously, it takes some, it takes perseverance, man. It takes some balls to do that shit. Thank you.

Thank you, man. And your journey's beautiful. Mm-hmm. You know, that's all I can say. Thank you, man. You know, it's definitely been in time. No, man, I'm complimenting my friend because he has been able to do some shit that me, I haven't been able to. Mm-hmm.

Meaning, I'm not talking about like the level of success. I'm talking about the consistency that they've, I've kept it at. Thank you, man. A lot of luck there. A lot of luck. No. At that point, luck runs out. Luck is like when you get a record deal or like, okay, you have a one-off single.

What you're doing is not luck. That's all skill. I never thought about that way in my life. Wow. That's not luck. Luck is like that flash of the pan shit, dude. Like it could happen was. Like lightning may strike.

You might have like a. killer song and my blow up but you've been able to like your band has been able to consistently keep that and like keep on that level and make a living and that shit

and stay true to your principles totally yeah that's been the main thing growing as a person keeping your character intact and your integrity yeah you know and that's that's what it is yeah it's

it's been a journey it's funny i've been uh i've always i'm always i'm trying to enjoy these moments because i know these are the ones that i'm going to miss like you like when you look back in the things you've done it's never the big shows it's never any big it's always like the little things yeah it's always little things yeah it's always little stuff i mean i don't eat i barely i barely think about going on toward corn i was my life's goal i'd rarely ever think about it

It's always like, oh, playing like showcase or something or like, or like fucking being broke and eating this, there's nothing. And I'm in a kind of similar spot. I'm here. I'm lucky and enjoy it to know when it comes back around. Yeah. I'm going to go back to this moment and miss it. Yeah.

I was trying. Yeah, there's like definitely shit I miss about it, you know. I mean, like should I do? What? Shit. 20 years ago, we weren't a band anymore. and then we got back together like a few years after that

literally 20 years ago we were not a bed wow fucking crazy you know what I mean but it's it's like yeah I think about like the cool shit we did and like oh fuck that was funnier than shit

man when that happened and then when this happened all the small stupid shit yeah it's what you think about or sometimes like I think about like some of the shit Rob has said and I'm like fuck oh my God that was amazing

Yeah. You know, but it is, like I said, it's all an experience. It's all a journey, man. You know, like I love every second of it, good, bad, ugly, whatever. It's the ugly parts that, that fucking. That's what shapes you. That shapes you, dude. It's it.

It's all at the bad times or the lows are just what makes you. You know, I wouldn't be. It's funny like this, it was this week. because we still practice in a garage and we have like our banner up there and I was just looking at the logo I was just looking at it for like a while I was like now it just represents

something else it's not even abandon me anymore it's just like see the logo and like the shape I'm like it represents character and integrity persistence patience it's just exactly it just represents something

totally different now I was like wow I felt like I felt proud my damn this like resilience perseverance and strong so here it's something funny

you said that give me that bottle real quick me no no no it's not about drinking okay I was like oh damn like I think it's not about drinking so

our company is called monument spirits see the statue there's a statue right there okay that's a statue of mother Armenia oh wow Yeah.

Literally me and Nick grew up. Like there's a neighborhood in Armenia and Yenavan Armenia where we grew up. The neighborhood is called Monument. The reason it's called Monument is because of that. That's why our company is called Monument Spirits. So literally that statue that's there. It's like it's kind of on a hill. It overlooks the city.

It's like a lady with a sword just looking down on the city. Kind of from up there. Oh, yeah. There you go. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. That's it. Shit, man.

You're quick. He was quick. So I grew up literally, see where like those trees are? Like, and those houses. Yes. That's where I grew up. You grew up there? Yeah.

Nick, too. That's why we call our company that. So monument to me is like, it's all about the perseverance. It's all about like values, childhood, the purity of it. I mean, there's so many things I could say about it, you know what I mean? But when I sit there, like, sometimes I look at that bottle. You know, I got a couple of my house and shit like that. And I'm looking at it.

I'm like, dude, like, how the fuck did that fucking little thought in your head? And then like, you guys were taking a couple shots, be a nick of something or whatever. Maybe we're grilling some meat and we're talking about this. And a decade later, it turned into a reality. And I've had that thought before where it's like, dude, this, my life for the last like two years, let's just say, turn into a little CD. You know, I mean, you've had that, you've had that. It's like, you know, like the demos, the writing, you sit and like obsess it over it, this and that. At the end of the day, you come out of that mastering engineers room and,

it's a little CDR bro well they don't even do that anymore right it's all like everybody just setting files yeah yeah but even then you open your phone it's there it's done and you hear it and see a video it's like it's still still

crazy shit right and and when you're talking about like I saw the suicide size thing and it's all about this and that and that's all it is man it's like all that hard work uh the obsession and the perseverance of it just turns into a product, whether it be your record, your tour, whatever it is.

And that's the special part of it. But the fun part of it is the journey. It's like going through that every step of the way, man. And there's no shortcuts to it. No, there's none. You got to do it. You got to live it. Yeah.

We lived it, man. Still living it. It's still a journey. Yeah. And, you know, until that casket drops. Even then it's still going. But before that casket, who the fuck is hungry? You know?

I'm pretty hungry. Oh, you? I've been holding my pee for an hour. Yeah, me too. And I'm supposed to meet my dudes over in Burbank. Still? You have plans after this? Oh, fuck.

I thought they were going to hang out in a fucking rage, dude. Or we could. We could. That's cool. We have a little bite? Yeah. A little bite. A little bite.

A little bit. A little shot. A little bit. A little fight. And then next time I come, next time I come, we can go over there. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, dude, dude, like, I have been holding my peeve for, like, I think, 30 minutes. Yeah, me too.

I need a smoke, too. Oh, look at that. Mother Armenia. So I'll tell you if I were, are we off? No, let's go another another five minutes. We'll close off, but close off means probably only five minutes. So I'll tell you something funny about that statue. So back in the days, before that statue was there, it used to be Stalin's statue there.

Okay. You know, Joseph Stalin. Yeah. And then when he died, they took that down. Yeah, see? Holy shit, man. He's quick. Thanks, Jay.

Look how quick that is. Got to feed you more vodka. So when he died, they took that shit down. Really? Yeah, they were having like destonitization when Khrushav came. And then there's, I actually have pictures of that thing. Wow, that picture, dude. Yeah.

Can I fucking go pee real quick and come back real quick? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, it'll be holding it for like a. I got you. It's on the, it's on the going to hang in. Where? The door. He said he'd come back and,

We're going to say bye. So they took that down and put up Mother Armenia. But the cool thing about it is, so this is Soviet Union still at the time. And when Mother Armenia was put out of a Soviet Union. And you know, like religion was kind of like a no-no in the Soviet Union, right? Under communism and stuff. But if you look at Mother Armenia, it resembles a cross. So Armenians actually.

held like on the DL they will pull all the Christian stuff yeah because Armenia is the first Christian nation in the world really I know that

oh shit Armenia is the first nation to accept Christianity as a national religion in year 301 AD damn Mike I didn't know that oh yeah

huh so it's just the old old statue right here? Yeah, well, I've never seen the Stalin statue. I've only seen pictures of it. That thing was taken down in like 1956 or some shit. You were still alive though, right? Huh?

No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I was still alive. Okay, I couldn't help it, dude. There's so much history there, dude. Holy shit. Yeah, I'll be there next week, in fact. Really? Yeah.

I'm flying out a week from today, exactly. I'll be there for... I go to Armenia all the time, so... What's like growing up there? I mean, look, I grew up there until I was about, what, 13? 13. Yeah, I moved here when I was 13. It was different than it was now, obviously.

It was still Soviet Union. Like, I moved here, and then, like, a year later, Soviet Union fell apart. Okay. I mean, it had pros, cons, you know, like, I'm sure there was, like a lot of propaganda going back both ways. Like, we had a different idea of what America was, and Americans had a different idea with Soviet Union. was like if you hear of Soviet Union, all you really think about is the shit that you've been fed.

Like, oh, yeah, people didn't have shit to eat. Communism. No, it wasn't really like that. Education was like way more advanced than anybody could ever think of. It was free, free education, free healthcare, free housing, free all that shit. but what that does communism in and of itself is creates like a breeding ground for corruption. Because, you know, like you can't,

I can't be a doctor and you're a janitor and we make roughly about the same money that can't work. That system cannot work, you know what I mean? So then what do doctors do? Then they're like, okay, so you're going to give me money under the table to do this and that and that. And that's how you get corrupted. Oh, my goodness.

But, I mean, it had its pros and cons. I mean, it was like, as far as, like, safety, there was, like, people didn't get killed. Like, there was no crime, none of that shit, bro. Really? Oh, yeah. Like, when I was growing up, like, you never heard of anybody be murdered. Really?

Holy shit. Why do you think that is? Because you didn't need to, really. I mean, I'm sure people got murdered, but it wasn't, like, I mean, okay, so if you take a, like, where I grew up, it was a city of, like, million and two, like, 1.2 million people. A lot of people.

How many murders do you think that would be? Like, if there was like, I don't know, maybe five murders a year, it would be like, oh my God. Oh, shit. Oh, my gosh. You know. It's probably done by the same person. Yeah, but then I don't know if you know, like,

one of the craziest serial killers of our time, what's his name, Andre Chucatillo? Okay. Are you into serial killers at all? I think we're all into it. I'm definitely curious about him. So this dude... Is this dude?

Yeah, that dude. Okay. He, wow. So... He looks different. He fucked up everyone, bro. Kids, whatever, right? And the reason that he didn't catch this fucking jerk off

is because Soviet Union, like, they didn't publicize him. Okay. They didn't have the public look for him. Because it was like, they had this thing where it was like, oh, it's a Western problem. We don't have serial killers here. You did. They knew. The cops knew everybody knew, but they didn't publicize it because if they, had they done it,

they would have caught him a long time ago. Motherfucker was operating for like 30 years, bro. Are you serious? In Ukraine, yeah. Holy shit. I never heard of this guy. Yeah. Sick fuck.

What year was this? The, uh, 60, 70, 70. I believe, up to 80s, if I'm not mistaken. I hate this, I mean, stereotype, but man, just looking at... 70 to 1990. 12 fucking years, dude? I mean, yeah, not to generalize... At least 52 women and children.

Red a Ripper who was sexually assaulted, murdered, and merely at least 52 women and children between in 1978 and 1990 in the Russian Wow A lot of it could happen in a pee break dude Yeah a lot So you see what I'm saying

So like yeah I mean there's definitely pros and cause to it bro Wow It wasn't all that bad It wasn't all that great It is what it is Why'd you move? I don't know

Well I mean I was a kid My mom moved and then me and my sister moved with my mom Did your mom ever tell you why you guys moved? Because I think she was just like looking for something different. Like my dad had passed away. My dad passed away like 86 and we moved here in like 1990. You were a kid and your dad passed away.

Yeah, my dad passed away when I was a night. What happened? He just, he was like health. Really? Yeah. I'm sorry, man. It was like unhealthy. So kind of sucked, but you know, it is what it is.

Wow. Do you think that that's why... I got it to a metal? Yeah. I've asked myself that question. I have no idea, honestly. Really? I have no idea.

I've always been gravitated towards like the darker sounds of things. Why is that? Why? I don't know. I always ask myself why are certain people who are drawn to this fucking sound? You know? Yeah. So when I was like six, my mom,

took me to piano lessons. And I had to either... And then I was going to piano lessons and I was going to soccer. Right? And then... So I learned how to play piano and I was like in love with like Beethoven and shit like that.

To me like music peaked at Beethoven and then it's just been going downhill ever since. Like as a general, that's how I see it. Perspective for sure. Beethoven now you have a... That's his... Reddy Roads. It just fucking went like...

That's his Randy... Like... No, no, no, it's funny because that's his Randy Rhodes. Like, Beethoven. Oh, too. No, for me, like... Home-Seath, dude. It never rants, dude.

Are we going to have, like, a Bade Hovitt and Mozart battle now? Oh, that's going. No, dude. Dude, you know who fucking corrupt shit up on keyboard and piano? Eddie Van Halen, baby? Oh. You know, you can't dispute that, so sorry, bro. Mike's piss right now, dude.

Dude, like, come on, man. I see it. How can you play like that in the eruption? Fight me. Armadi and burning eyes. dude. I know. What you're talking about?

What do you mean? So, anyway. So then, uh, I don't know. And then like, like, I've always been into like moonlight sonata and shit like that. Like, you know, like the real darker. That song is beautiful. The darker shit. Yeah.

And then, uh... Why? But, yes, why? And then I just, like, picked up the guitar and then, like, it was in Armenia, actually. When I heard Randy Rhodes, the album I heard was tribute. Okay. The live album. Nice.

Which is basically like, for the most part, it's a blizzard of our songs, a couple of Black Sabbath songs. Is there any diary songs on that? No, they hadn't even done diary back then, have they? No, yeah, there's flying hyagos on it. Oh, hey, how about this hot take? Invee Monsoon, baby. Oh, here, I'll tell you another funny story about energy.

But, yeah, that's kind of how it happened. So I can't really tell you if that had anything to do with me being into metal. I've always liked the darker sounds of things and heavy and shit like that. So we're recorded Strictly Diesel and NRG, right? I'm in the control room. I'm actually tracking guitars. Door opens to the control room.

Who walks in? Hold on. Open shirt, gold chains, long hair, boots, Ingby Monce. No. Oh, fuck. Probably one better, and we can have this battle, too. Steve Vai.

Oh shit. I love him. Okay. Steve Viwoxen as I'm tracking guitars. Oh, that's the worst case scenario. And I just fucking, bro, I put my guitar down. I'm like, bro, I'm not playing shit in front of you. I am not doing that.

Oh, fuck. Steve Viwaxing and trying to track fucking two notes, dude. Yeah, I'm trying to like go, dun, dun, dun, dun, or whatever I'm doing. Let's go. By the way, that was big truck. but okay. I'm like, bro, I'm just not playing in front of you.

Yeah, you know, like, it's not gonna happen. Is it, okay, can you guys like make corroborate this sort?

Because I think he has a slinky style. Is that a word? Like, I feel like it's like, it's like a fluid. Like, sure.

Sure. When I hear of, why? Yeah, he's, he's actually, he's like, he's so fucking unique.

I can't even like play something like it's like, it's like, it feels like it's just like, Like, he's like rock, but he's got like some jazz shit going on. I don't know, man. He's like, he's like...

Something else. Something else. He's crazy, right? So what happened? He walks in. He walks in. He knew Amir, our engineer. From somewhere, yeah, Amir de Rock, from Orgy.

He walks in, and I have like the guitar, and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, just keep going, guys. You know, I'm like, you know, like, I'm 20. Yeah, you're 20 years old, dude. I put the guitar on the stand next to me. It was like a bunch of pedals, amps and shit like that. I'm just like talking, you know. Hey, man, it's a pleasure to meet you, you know, like whatever. It's like, oh, no, no, no, go ahead, guys.

You know, like, you were tracking. How do you want to interrupt? I'm like, yeah, no, bro, I'm not playing in front of you. Wow. I'm just not doing this one. Dude, it's tough, dude. How do you play in front of Steve? I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Because it just sparked in my head. Like, Devin Townsend, who played with him,

remember in the band, they were together. Sex and Religion, that record? Was it that? What was the title? Yeah, he came to a rehearsal, like, Devin Townsend because of Dino. So I was just like, oh, shit. And he was just looking at funny because I was playing Big Truck. I was like, I was like, he looked at his like, you know,

and sorry, I was like, oh, that's cool. I think he was just being nice, but like, you know, Devin Townsend, like, you know, he had that, like, kind of, you know, kind of that creative. Yeah, he's definitely a, special guy. Yeah, he knows a shit. He knows, he knows, man.

Yeah, it's, that's kind of one thing when you are a rhythm player is you are confident until someone walks in that, like, you notice rips, you're like, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, there is a shift. But see, I wasn't even confident in my guitar abilities as strictly these are like,

if that happened when I was doing, like let's say self-destructive or the record after that, Anger did not accept this? Yeah. Because, like, I know what I'm good at. At that point, I had already figured out by strengths and weaknesses.

Yeah. Like, I can double everything I'm doing to a T where you don't even need to edit it. You don't need to do shit. Nice. Well, not now, but back then I could have. I haven't touched the guitar in years. But this is strictly diesel, bro.

Like, I can barely even fucking play guitar. And it walks Steve by. I'm like, no, bro. No. No, man. Wow.

If he walked in when I was doing like the later records, I would have probably been like, yeah, yeah, chill, man. Take a fucking notebook. Yeah. Yeah, you're right, dude. It's funny, I get older. I get really, like, I don't know a word. Like, it's not proud, but I feel,

I just know what I'm doing is a rare thing. You know, I know, okay, I know my sound like it, but I know you cannot do what I do. Right? Sure. But unfortunately for me, it took like a year to develop that thought process. That's called the Garza style. That's what I would call it.

The Garza. No one could do the Garza better than me. Yep. Yeah. Because you are Garza. Because you are Garza. Yeah. Are you guys still on a...

Century Media? Yeah. Yeah? Great label. Okay. There was Sony now, right? Yes. Yeah.

Because, yeah, our last record came out of Century Media. I just remember that. Oh, shit, really? Yeah. Oh, damn. 2012. Yeah. Good year.

Yeah, for you guys. Not for us. Oh, shut up. End in the world. Right? No? The world? Are you talking about 2001?

No, the world was supposed to end in 2012. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was in Greece when that happened, actually. Oh, my goodness, dude. December 21, 12, 21, 2012. Yeah, yeah. Nothing happened. What happened?

Nothing at all. No, nothing. All the Doomsday fucks? I think that would be saying this shit for like probably, I don't know, the last 2,000 years. Yeah, there's always a new date. Yeah, somebody comes out with a date, like the world's going to end on this date, and then nothing happens, and then they're like, oh, yeah, we fucked up. It's going to be actually this date, and then...

It's never going to end. We need something to... What it ends and ends you know? What can you do about it? Nothing. What can I do about it? Nothing. No.

That's true. No. I find myself fucking is always pondering my... what's the word mortality it's like we're all we're all fucking dying you just stop fucking

looking in days trying to just fucking hang with your family yeah I mean I've learned not to obsess over shit that I have no control over you know what I mean like yeah that is what it is

what are some what is some closing thoughts um live long and prosper and you know enjoy life by the way that's be good

it's good to see you guys man. It was great hanging. Especially you, I haven't seen you in a minute. I know, I haven't seen fucking, since that tour. Since that tour. Wow, man.

No, no, no, I've seen you after that. I've definitely seen you after that. Fuck. Like anam or something? No, no, no. Did you guys tour with a machine head? Yes. Yeah.

I was at that show. Okay. I've definitely seen you. And then, yeah, we've hung out after that. For sure. Where are? I can't tell you, but not much longer

after that, you know what I mean? I know for sure I haven't seen you since 2012. Yeah, 12 years. Which is 12 years. At least. That's crazy. At least. You know, I was looking forward to this conversation, man.

It's cool. Three guitar players. Yeah. From my era that... Annie Van Halen, baby. Oh, closing comment. Don't be a bitch. Yeah, don't be a bitch.

That's the closing comment. Yes, and that's, you know what? For using listening to watching, that's helped me. a lot. Oh man, thanks man. Because this is what people don't realize. It's the simple to simplify things that stick

is so hard. People can give you advice, but okay, you might get a long sentence or something, but when someone said something like boom boom, that those are the things that stick with you. Don't be a bitch, to me is like... I can actually break down what don't be a bitch means. It could just go branch

out into a lot of stuff. No, it's all about like, accept your responsibilities. Don't you know, accept the reality. Better. And try to change things for the better.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And if you can't, then don't cry about it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? There's no, there's no point of complaining.

Do something about it. Yeah. True. Yeah. Just don't fucking be a bitch, man. That's it. Don't be a bitch. That's it, man.

Don't be a bitch. So, uh, all right, Michael, so you first, work, where do you want people to go as far as socials or uh socials um well we have we have an instagram

that's been growing like for the last month or so um dora vodka.com i mean sorry dory vodka our website is doraevotka.com there's a shop uh thing on there you can buy it online i believe it could be shipped to like about 33 u.s. states for now um it's available in stores in California as of like about two weeks ago, should be at all liquor stores and bars and such. If you go to a bar or liquor store it doesn't have it, ask for it. I mean... Tell them.

Yeah. I mean, I can't promise it's going to be everywhere, but if you ask for it, then for sure they'll order it. Boom. Boom. Oh, yeah. Meeks? March, the rescheduling is...

We're doing the whole U.S. tour, and, you know, the tour that we had to reschedule it's in March. The tour days are on... 2000. Yeah, man. I was actually looking forward to seeing you guys next Friday. Dude, I was, I was carrying up to get fucked up. Yeah?

Yeah, I was. We got to come on stage and... I was. I was planning on it. Fucking drunken being an idiot. So a date to reschedule. We all know what if I mean saw. Oh, shit.

You started on my birthday, bro. In Denver. Oh, nice. In Vegas to seven. Seven. Is that a weekend? Maybe if I'm here... It's the first time I've seen this.

If I'm home My goodness If I'm home I'll come out to Vegas Oh But you live in Vegas Yeah but like I might be in Europe

That time Yeah just go through all the socials And you know Everything's out there And yeah Cool And I would definitely Recommend everyone

Going to see Colchamor Because they They sound good Thanks man You're actually getting Your money's worth You've seen a real show I don't think so

You're not seeing you know like a rehashed or whatever like it's it's out it looks that sounds like cold chamber of totally of a of culture the cold chamber that you know and love yeah we didn't get fat so that's cool yeah not like me bro you got too much pasta and shit you got lucky well it was an honor for me to fucking hang out with guitar players that uh i admired when uh when i was growing up and it's cool i'm on that's crazy that you did but it's it's it's so weird being me it's weird it's fucking badass dude it's a i grew up you know listening to your bands

and especially like the genre, you know. And it's cool to have like this conversation. I'm honored to I'm honored to be here, honestly. But the next time you should have posters of our bands. What should give a one?

I may actually, I don't know if you want some Spine Shank posters. Fuck, dude, really? I might have some, yeah. Dude, hook it up. Let me go see what I got at home. That would be sick. I know I got some show posters that I'm, not really gonna do shit with i can give you those dude please i'll i'll hang it up i'll i'll see what

i have i'll i'll say you like some cool shit thanks man me this won't give me shit so fuck him anyway well again i can thank you guys for for making this uh time happen and uh yeah man thank you for having us hell yeah all right everyone that's it later later later