Garza Podcast - 142 - CANE HILL: Metalcore from the Swamp

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with New Orleans, Louisiana metalcore band Cane Hill. Check out their new album “a piece of me i never let you find” OUT November 1st! https://wearecanehill.com CANE HILL is: Elijah Witt - Vocals Elijah James Barnett - Guitar Ryan Henriquez - Bass Devin Clark - Drums CHAPTERS: 00:00 - How to Piss Off Your Band, Respect & Success 11:41 - Taking Things for Granted  16:51 - “Too Far Gone” Story & Recording 22:41 -  Writing Music Depressed & Self Sabotage 27:54 - Taco Bell VS Taco Time 30:04 -  Mindset For a Show 35:46 - Sevendust Tour 47:49 - The Effects of Being Jaded 51:32 - “Too Far Gone” Writing 54:35 - Spotify Confusion & Metalcore Hacked 1:08:00 - Happiness & Sadness 1:14:43 - Metalcore & Deathcore Works Together 1:20:24 - The 7 String Guitar 1:22:52 - Playing NXT & Meeting HHH

You want to go? Yeah, sure. I was going counterclockwise. I don't know you guys were doing right now. Which way is that? Him. Counterclockwise is that way. Yeah, this is Ryan.

I play bass for Kane Hill. Appreciate that. Yep. I'm with it. I do vocals. I'm James. I play guitar. I'm Devin.

I play drums. Appreciate that. Obviously, you need different names because you're both Elijah. Yeah. Was that like a criteria box? You had to cross off to sort of band together? He and I have been playing music together for about 16 years, just under different projects. But yeah, it gets confusing because he and I, just out of habit, we'll still introduce ourselves as Elijah sometimes.

I like the confusion, personally. If I introduce myself as Elijah, I'm hoping he comes up and introduces himself as Elijah. Perfect. Because it feels like a prank, even though it's not. Yeah. It's just reality. It's a reality. A real prank.

Yeah, I'm not trolling. So the band started in 2011. So you guys were already playing music even prior to that? Yeah. Kind of. Kind of. It wasn't Kane Hill, but yeah. We were...

Fuck. In 2011, I think we were like... Man versus Machine still. Oh, we're throwing out the real name? Sure. Throw them out, dude. We're here. Man versus Machine, yeah.

It was not our best name. Not our best music. Wait, Man versus Machine? I thought about that one. Not us. Yeah, so with... brother and I started that band in like 2008 and then a couple years into it Witt joined we shortly named we changed the name to like Sleepwalker went for

this different sound equally yeah just going trying trying to get a little step up yeah and then Sleepwalker is what would have become Kane Hill eventually because we started you know meeting people and talking to people and we got linked up with the label and they hated the name. So we just... Really? Yeah. I mean, I'm being facetious, but, you know, we had to start from scratch, you know,

and come up with a new name. Oh, nice. I was going to ask you, like, how is it... How is it being in a band with a brother? It just sounds like a nightmare. It's cool. I mean, I don't know. He's not in the band anymore.

But there was a time where, like, it was, like, really, really cool. There was, like, a falling out. And everything's chill now. Like, we're all amicable and everything. He's actually helped the band out a lot, you know, with just little random things because he's like a carpenter. And he also does metal work. So, like, it kind of helps us make our rig sick and stuff like that.

Nice. Yeah, so it was cool, you know. It got uncool. But, you know, like I said, it's all water under the bridge now. Yeah. What are some pros? Pros? Yeah.

Well, you know, when it's, I can't speak for everybody who has a brother, but like he and I were able to just be like so transparent and just like that shit sucks. You know what I mean? Or whatever. So early on, too, it's hard. I'm doing that so early on. It's hard. Yeah, he, I actually owe a lot to him because when I was around 11 is when I got interested in metal and he's eight years older than me. So he's like recording bands and working with bands. So at 11, 12 he was teaching me because I wanted to hang out with him so bad he was like teaching me how to record and like I actually ended up like tracking bands for him while he would be like at his other job at 11 or 12? Like 12 13 yeah like already like recording learning yeah yeah like mic and drums mic and cabs local band stuff it sounded bad but I was learning it's still pretty advanced yeah I was at that age to like suck it up like a sponge you know what I mean so that's great

Yeah, that's cool. Give me a one con. A one con? What's that? Don't know. Give me one con of having a... Oh, one con? Yeah.

Being in a band with your brother? Um, they just... I don't know. They know how to piss you off and they will. You know what I mean, so... Well, I mean, that's kind of no different from... Sure. I do know how to piss him off.

How? Oh. I mean, there's a million ways. Oh. He has a list, dude. I'm just... I'm exceptionally good at pissing off my band. Yeah. You know what we have?

Some of disrespects, you know? We have a subconscious list. A subconscious list? Yeah. Explain that. Well, it's like we don't have like a list, you know, like a forefront of a list, but it's like we know each for so long. You just been through so much together. You just have like this.

Other things you know. You just know, like. Yeah, it becomes instinctual. You don't even have to think about it. Oh, yeah. We either, I mean, if we want to piece each other off, it's pretty easy to figure out how to do it. And then the counter is we're really good at stepping around all of the little. intricate ways that could piss off

each other. Yeah, I feel yeah. Yeah, dude, being in a band for like over a decade, you know, you go through all those hurdles of like extremely bad and then like you get like better at like confronting each other and like, kind of like

talking things through better. You know what I mean? Because, you know, if you don't talk about it, you know, because when you're in a band, you know, you have to exist With these people for a long long time, you know you're kind of married to each other, you know what I mean So if you can't you know get to the bottom or if you can't like find a resolution, you know what I mean? Then it's just going to be bad news bears at some point. It's going to blow up you know what I mean Yeah, it always it always bubbles up to the top any little issue

Because especially when you get slapped in the face I mean you're band dealt with it. It's like once like You know there's there could be like a label change or something people people and your team start to leave or things that don't work out, then these things that these little unresolved issues are like, go right to your fucking face, and then you have to talk it out. And hopefully you're all at a point

where you do, and it sounds like you guys are at which is pretty... We're getting better at it. Yeah. It took a long time for us to kind of be a little bit more transparent with each other. Yeah, our early 20s. Oh, my God. We didn't know how to talk to each other at all. No. It's like, what's talking? Let's just start writing tunes. What do you mean? You're still mad.

Shut up. It's like that happened five years ago, you fucking pussy, dude. Come on, dude, do it same way. I mean, we're still learning. You know, being transparent, you'd be more transparent. Sure. You know, trying not to cross the line. But when it just takes, especially when you're going into like this self-managed,

that's just like, I don't know the word exposed. It just brings up like any, like, yeah. It's little problems that like someone has to fix. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It used to be someone else and then it becomes you and your responsibility. And you're like, wow, I got nobody to email about this. Shit, I got a. And then you're like.

I'll email myself real quick. Email myself. I'll be like, hey, can you solve this? I'll be like, God, I really don't want to. And it's like managing to get like the respect of everybody in the band in that situation because everybody's like commanding their own respect. So like respecting the people you're asking things of. and getting respect from the people you're asking things of,

like when we're all equals anyway, is a very peculiar situation to be in the middle of. So do you all treat each other as equals? Yeah, I would say. Okay. I mean, I mean, we all have our, like, specialties. We all, like, have our specialties, but, like, we all respect the shit out of each other, you know what I mean?

It's cool. And we split, like, everything, like, equally. Boom. It doesn't matter, like, who did what? You know what I mean? Like, it's all. That was loud, deal with it. You all.

I caught myself Someone's fucking slurping I just like to place an ad for Garza's podcast coffee It is fire It doesn't need cream The international delight is in the beans itself I really appreciate that man Thank you. It's so good I had to fucking slurp it

It's still hot though man Yeah my bad It's beans real quick I'll get back here How was that's time justin going from To the self-managed Because that was a I managed a band for like two months

and it was fucking hell. Yeah, it's like that little like transition period. It's like, it sucks. Not particularly fun. Yeah. I mean, we are managed now, which is nice. Congratulations. Cool.

Yeah. I got someone to email. But for like, yeah, like for two years, essentially, we were, we had a guy who helped manage, you know. Okay. But it was mostly, I would say, on us. And I think he would agree it was mostly on us. Um, and if I'm, if I'm, like, real, we had some of the most success we've ever had in that time period. So like, whatever difficulties we ran into and there were chock full of plenty, like, um, because you're right.

I mean, you mentioned it like going through that period in transition brings out all of the tiny cracks that you, that you could ignore because someone was telling you, no, it's fine. Or someone was like, we're handling it. even if they weren't, but in the back of your head, you're like, oh, it's being handled. So there's, like, this, like, cognitive dissonance between what's actually happening and, like, your, like, idea of everything's okay. So when you can see behind that curtain and you, like, see your debt and you see, like, some burnt bridges you didn't know were burnt, uh, dude, yeah. Like, you start realizing all these, not even, like, our personal issues, but, like,

what, what we had done for the past seven years as a band and what we think, thought we had been doing and in the reality maybe what was like actually happening behind the scenes was different like money wise or more content wise or concept wise. I'm not sure what we can and can't say but I can say

that it was interesting to test things like there was beauty to having everything in our hands because we were able to like brand the band and like really throw things out there

that maybe in the past would have got denied or whatever you know and it was a chance for us to see it was a chance for us to see with no help you know what stuck and what didn't you know so I feel like that crew era during COVID 2021

2002 I feel like that was a very very important moment for the band to kind of figure out well what are we going to do now you know what I mean and so we released those six singles and each one of them's wildly different than the last.

And we were kind of like, okay, they liked this one, they hated this one, they liked this, you know what I mean? So we just kind of took it from there. Yeah. What was one thing you learned? Because, and then we'll close off this subject.

But selfishly, I want to ask, what do you learn? Because unfortunately, when you start to manage stuff, you see cracks, it does, if it changes you as a player, especially as like a I mean for you could be bass or vocals or drummer like but when you're like writing songs it does

there is a switch you know so what did you learn as a guitar player going through all all that well like starting over it was extremely humbling it

didn't change how I played the entire situation made me take it for granted less. And I'd say when I play now, it's a lot more emotional. Maybe not in like a sad way. Maybe in like a melancholy type way. But I'm always wondering, like, is this the last one?

You know what I mean? Wow. And I just try to make it count. You know what I mean? So, yeah. That's good. Yeah, you are forced to be humbled. Oh, yeah.

I have no choice. Yeah, you have no choice, too. like no fucking choice you know it kind of sounds like you guys obviously you guys are writing your tunes and you know you're signed to rise and all that the cool shit is happening

but sometimes this sucks when we like we like take you ever granted it just happens you know you know it's like it's like you're like going from like I could assume like you're going from like a loser from Louisiana

and then you're not wrong you're not wrong and then Sorry, Devin, I'm sorry for it. And then, you know, I mean, because I mean, as I did it, I'll lose a kid from Corona, and then you actually do what was in your head. Yeah.

And then it happens, and then now you're out in a row. You're fucking playing some tunes. And it happens so fast. It happens quick. Oh, that time period, like years, when you, years is, they don't, I mean, they don't fuel. Years is nothing, bro. Yeah. Years are specs of time.

I was, five days ago, I was sitting in bed, like, thinking, oh yeah when I was on stage doing acid in Bournemouth I was like this will feel like a blink of an eye in seven years and I'm seven years ahead

I'm like god damn that was a blink of an eye it was it's like a yeah like a career playing music it's like cat ears or dog ears yeah you know it's just this it can almost kind of feel like a past life in some in some

it does because sometimes you'll see pictures every person so I'm sure everyone listen to watch you like you see pictures or like you see videos or you listen to records are like, that's me, but it's not. It ain't me.

It's who I was at that point in time. It's so weird to look back. It captures. It captures it. Like, you know? That is fucked up. Like, you, like, the years go by quick, but then sometimes you look back and it seems so long ago.

Seven years ago, think about the record you put out seven years ago, man. Oh, gosh, different. You were in a different place, huh? Think about it. That record that you put out seven years ago was probably a year or two already in. quality old so it's even older that's nine year old

that's nine years ago Garza riffs bro those emotions are probably pretty pretty faded or different or changed maybe not even faded differently interpreted you know what I mean yeah that's like that's a good point

you know a lot of people a lot of OG fans they want us to kind of do like the sound we used to do and it's like I wrote Sunday school when I was 17 my brain doesn't operate

I'm not I'm not mad at my mom like that anymore you know what I mean those lyrics I look back I'm like why am I yelling at my mom you know yeah I heard a rumor that you guys put a show on acid it's just true played like a few a few a few was it ever a good choice probably not were they good shows definitely not definitely not do I there's people there because there's people there okay because you could say we performed I don't think we did what you might have heard may have not been a performance man would I do it now no can't advise it for like four hours mind you these two these two did it way before me and

Devin because we wanted to see what was gonna go on for four hours they're like when's it gonna happen and me and Devin I'm like all right then we can just take it before the set are synced up with them and they went right as the set started and me and Devin are like I don't think we have time we caught up so quickly it wasn't very fair I remember being in the green room. We were talking about it not working. And I think our friend George was in

the green room kind of fucking with us and he started playing that 1975 song. And he would repeat the same intro. And that's when we realized like, oh fuck, it's starting. Five minutes. He just kept restarting it, dude. That was

enough to freak us out. Dang, God himself made many guys sink up. That's crazy. We did it enough with each other. I think our brains were pretty in tune with each other. It's like, okay, like we've been friends for a while. Let's just try it like right now.

Right. We were just in that dumb face. You know what I mean? It was, it was an, it was like a too often thing. You know? Oh, okay. I'd call it certainly a too often thing. Too far gone. It's where it came from. Yeah, too far gone. The record name.

The song. It doesn't. because we were quite literally a little bit too in over our heads with So that's where it came from Oh wow The house we were recording in at the time It just happened to be like It was a studio

But there was a lot of like traffic of local art Not local artists But like artists from the L.A. area So there was always like just people hanging out in the house I mean I'm not going to mention names People would just come in Hang out with us and we wouldn't know For like a few hours later

He'd been on our couch eating mushrooms the whole time, you know? So there was like always this element of like just relax, have a good time, experiment. I want to tell this story so bad. I don't know if I should. I don't think he'd care. Wait, no. No, not that one. You guys know, you know?

Look, some of our best stories are untellable because too far gone's based. It's real. The story was real. It happened because we realized that some of the people that we were, I guess, idolizing or had a bunch of, I don't know, a prominent touch on who brought us up. Someone from a very prolific metal band was scheduled to have a co-write with us. And they come out to the studio. I'm trying to decide. Playing in time.

Trying to decide how I want to like. Explain in time. They came out to the studio. It was a, the studio, if I could describe it, it's like a bedroom type studio. It's just like a Kemper, a distressor, and a MacBook, you know what I mean? So really prolific artists, they get to this place. They're like, what the fuck? Like, where's the drum set?

You know what I mean? I'm like, it's right here in the computer. And they're like, I don't think they'd ever seen program drums in their life. I think I was the first person to show them program drums. But anyway... A drummer. Huh? A drummer?

They hit drums sometimes. But, so... Great one. Nice. They... I'm going to get guys here as we can. Stop! Stop!

So they come, and their manager comes. And before they even came, our manager calls us. And he's like, look, you know, they're recovering. You guys need to put up all this stuff. Like whatever you have. Why wasn't our manager there? You know, whatever you have, you need to put it up. And we put it up for the most part.

I think there was like one bomb laying around or something like. But that was enough to like set them off. But anyway, so we're like talking, we're chit-chatting. And one thing led to another. We started talking about acid. Oh. And then they were only there for about 30 or 40 minutes. And then he was like, all right.

Y'all got my number. No, he said I got y'all's number Yeah, we didn't have his number He's like I got y'all's number But first he talks about bringing Back Whoa! Whoa! Oh, my gosh!

Can you cut that? Yeah, that's fine. Well, if you can cut that, then just to tell you This story. You can bleep it. Yeah, that's fine. Bleep it. I'll bleep out the name.

Yay! But anyway. So they roll out Wow. And it's not too long before we get a call from our manager and basically their manager told our manager, he's like, I can't have my guys around your guys.

You know, they're talking about drugs. They're, like, fighting with each other. They thought... You're fighting? They thought... We weren't. We're just both named Elijah, and we fuck around. Okay, so, you know, we've been a band a long time.

We, like, kind of, like, rip on each other. Of course. So I used to say stuff, like, you can't fucking sing, you suck. You know what I mean? We might have used to be mean. It's my favorite. Yeah, you know, and it's all, like... not mine.

Singers are a little bit more sensitive, though. I got feelings. Yeah. We don't really do that anymore. But back then, you know, we were just like, you know, really like bully type. We were wacky. Whatever. But they thought we were dead serious.

So, you know, they were mad about that. And they were mad about the bong. They were mad about us bringing up acid in front of bro. So anyways, like, I can't have my guys around your guys. You know what I mean? And we're like, this is a really, really. prolific crazy band you know what i mean and we're like we're too crazy for okay you know what i mean i guess we're you know we're too far gone and then i told that story to drew our producer at the time

i told him that story and he was like all right get out i'm like okay he said he i'm gonna go right a hit and then him and wit they they turn that story um into that song you know so that song is actually really really important because it's true it's true it's like the um the uh a domino effect you know like because we we did that and then we got crazier you know what i mean yeah we were like oh damn we're do crazy what if we were crazy you know that um much to our demise you know yeah it's it sucks because you need to balance it like you kind of like need that kind of side of you to write sick tunes but there's also like the other side of it I had some sick tune.

That song did a lot for the band. It's still our closer. It's still the one people recognize. I think when I think when people think of Kekaheil, they probably think of like Sunday school, Too Far Gone, Time Bomb, you know, Gemini, stuff like that. I'm trying to rewrite that. Trying to make them think of other songs.

That record also has Y and a race, correct? Yes. Okay. Yeah, James, you mentioned that you were depressed writing those two songs. I've depressed writing every song ever in my life. Oh, perfect. Okay, great. Yeah, it kind of sucks.

the, it just makes good music. Yeah, like, to a fault. I think I've even, like, self-sabotized just to feel bad again before. Consistently. Not even just him, the whole band. Whole band loves self-sabotaging. Like, and, like, subconsciously, you know what I mean?

Because, like, you'll get in your own head, and you'll be like, I don't think I'm sad enough to write good music. I better fuck this up. You know what I mean? Wow, self-sabotage? Yeah, but it's subconscious, though. You don't even realize you're doing it, you know what I mean?

Sure. Yeah, I have a whole song about it. Yeah, I'll kill the sun That song, kill the sun is literally about Like taking my happiness And doing something to fuck it up Why do you do that? I don't know I try not to anymore

Maybe trauma Maybe How do you wait? I'm sorry I'm 31 31 I'm past a lot of myself sabotaging But I do be trying to dwell You know I like to dwell

I think that I mean my philosophy has always been like I don't think that you can enjoy happiness unless you have truly experienced sadness. You can't... Where's the appreciation for the good times if you haven't... You know, hurt a little? But that said, there are plenty of people who hurt too much. All my favorite bands started...

All my favorite bands started sucking when they got happy. The Frey. This is my favorite example, because they're not a metal band. They're not heavy at all. But in the early 2000s, the Frey had some of the... the saddest alt music in the world, like truly depressing. The fray? Yeah, the fray.

The fray, okay. Their music's not cool. No. But they got married, and their music got, like, demonstrably worse, like, horrible. You can't get happy and write good music. That's where you start to fail as a band. Okay. Yeah.

A medical core one-on-one. Dwell. I'm in school right now. Yeah, but don't, but don't you think, like, don't you think there's always something to be pissed off about? Yes, sure. Absolutely. Have you seen the world? Yeah, I mean, just so, even if I'm happy, I'm like, I'm 38, I'm the happy to ever been in my life.

However, there's also like this other, this other well of creativity now. It's weird. It's even, it's, you can always find it. Depending on how far you want to dig, it's always there. You know, it's like, I'm happier. I'm stoked, but also I just had like this infinite well of dark and it's pissed. Yes. I love explaining that to people.

Oh, you look happy. I'm happier than I've ever been. But you know what? I'm still fucking depressed and sad and angry, all right? I'm just all so happy. Why the fuck is this five layer of $4? Yeah, what the fuck is the $5.00? And you guys are from Louisiana.

Obviously, you're not all from New Orleans. You know, so. We're kind of spread out a little bit. Take it that's like your central point. Is anyone if you actually from there or no? Born and raised. Born and raised there. How was that?

To me, it feels normal, but now that I've seen the world, it actually is very not normal. It's a small city but has a big city vibe. That's why they call it the Big Easy. They call it Big Easy? Big Easy. The Big Easy. The Big Easy.

And it's a very small city. city you could you could drive around in a few minutes and cut right through it if you wanted to on the interstate but it's got this big city vibe it's uh very much under sea level so anytime we have a big storm or it rains it's going to flood so that's kind of something we have to live with um but it's it happened a few days ago but uh it's it's not much different in like the terms of like growing up like james went to high school i you know we all went to high schools and did this whole normal life shebang. Yeah, I don't know, actually, because going around to other places, like, I feel like

there's a big difference in high schools because Louisiana's like Catholic school or nothing. Yeah, in the city, you have to go to a Catholic school to get, like, the proper education that is to par with the rest of the country. Public school is so on in the city. But, like, if you could say what's weird about growing up in New Orleans, well, we have Marty Girl every year. So, like, there's a section of the city that just shuts down, and it becomes a giant party for like two days out of the year.

You know, we've got mosquitoes and all that kind of other stuff that everyone's known about us. I hear people that are from there hate it. You could grow to hate it. The thing is, is when you're there,

you hate it. When you leave, you can't wait to get back. It's messed up. It's so easy going to. Other cities are much faster. Like, I've never lived in a place other than New Orleans

where it's like, nobody cares if you're on time. You're not going to really. be on time. We're also really spoiled with food. Oh my God. People need to stop trying to take us to restaurants and waiting for our faces to be like,

ooh, this is really good because we're mean. We've got so much good food in the city. Our photographer took us to Taco Time on this tour, and he said it was quote-unquote a better Taco Bell. And it was some of the worst shit I had in my life. I will actually, we talk about how we love good food, but fuck, we love Taco Bell too. But yeah.

I mean, like, or took a, he also recommended an Italian place, and it looked like the cheese and the noodles was like, I don't know, but you know how like pasta supposed to be kind of creamy? It wasn't. It was like all just like one. It was like a gelatin. Yeah, it was crazy. And we're like, what, though? It could have been lasagna. It could have been lasagna.

It was not supposed to be. It's kind of funny how we all talk shit on fast food, but like. But we still eat it all the time. But we still eat it and they're like literally major, major companies. And we all go there. That's what far. We're buying into it all the time. It's like Taco Bell app that I save so much money.

Yeah. It's awesome. Dude, the Mexican pizza? I've never had the Mexican pizza. Dorita tacos, baby. Dude, take him and get a fucking Mexican pizza. Why would I get a Mexican pizza if I can get a CrunchRef Supreme? Yeah, CrunchRef Supreme.

Put the potatoes in it. Ooh. There is, yeah, there is multiple things there. There's something like a bean and cheese burrito. That's one of my favorite meat. And she's grilled it. Have them grill it at Taco Bell. You grill it?

Oh, you can grill anything at Taco Bell. Huh. It's the secret. You guys are bougie. Cool. We just know what we're doing. It's like Starbucks orders, except we're Taco Bell connoisseurs. Mm-hmm.

Cool. Well, Devin, it is an honor to call you, my friend. Dude. You know. So nice to meet you on that tour, too, and to hang out with you guys, you know, working for y'all. You changed my opinion on drummers. so you so you represent

they probably had their own opinion of you but you know but I have my own opinion yeah I have my own experience with you so you definitely change you open my mind to uh you know maybe not every drummer is a fucking psychopath

like 10% of us that aren't that crazy but I got a little crazy side of me you know it'll come out every now and then we all we all have that is that it's the creative part like when When it manifests into the show, there's a show, there's the songs, and it's great. They're, oh, cool, you channel it.

But when it comes out of anything else, it's not good. No. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, arguments and pissed and, you know. Your performance is how you felt that morning or that day, you know? Think so? Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, I've always wondered, yeah, I think every person that does it doesn't differently.

I noticed that. I was like, oh, I think, yeah, so, so for you, maybe. It's how I feel this today. Yeah. It's how I feel this. Because I can't speak for everybody or every band, but there's a lot of improv in the cane hill set. It's not exactly the same every single time. Okay.

So I guess that's kind of what I'm getting at. You know what I mean? Yeah, for me particularly, it's like the last hour before we do changeover. Whatever happens in that last hour, that's going to directly affect my set. So I can do the whole day. and be okay, but if I'm not like in that mode to go on stage, it's

not a good time. So you need to be in a mode? Yeah, I need to switch something on inside me to get up there. What turns on? Angry guy, you know? Angry guy! I beat the shit. I beat the shit out of drums. I just kind of like angry guy. Focus my energy more towards

like pissed off thoughts and feelings and take it out on my drums. What do you think about? Uh, tour managing, how it sucks. Really? How I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. Driving, lack of sleep.

Missing my cat. Sure. That pisses me off. If it makes you feel better, Cooper doesn't miss you. I know, right? I'm the second human in our relationship. That is true. Cats don't fucking care about us, dude.

That's fun. Cats are based. Yeah, they're smart. They're too good for that. They are. Sometimes I'll sit there high, And then my cat's like looking at me. Judging you.

It's judging you. It's like, I know. I know. I know your high. And you're going to die someday. You're just sitting there like, I know, man. It's a, yeah. But it's for some reason, it's a healthy love.

I don't know. I think about my life. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a switch. It's mode, you know. So I'm always, yeah, everyone kind of, I noticed that. Like, once like the conversation comes up, oh, well, not everyone thinks like this.

Some people were happy Some people were My thing about what they did that day I need to be in a mode At least right now in my life You know It's a thing about childhood Everything I don't like about myself

Or There's like Plaset Gloom bro Exactly what we were talking about You're setting yourself up for it You have to It gets dark dude I know you guys ever seen the band

But yeah The head bang You guys? Yeah. We tore with you. I know. I'm talking like a... I almost said it.

The world is... I'm talking to the world right now. Okay. I know. I know. I know. And we did that little mini tour. But, uh...

Yeah, just fucking just... I don't know. It gets dark. But yeah, I mean, I do it for fucking like you, when you're older and you're trying to move like you did when you're in your teens. Yeah, but that's... doesn't work. My spine hurts.

Yeah, it's... Lower back kills. Well, thank God for yoga. You still jumping in the drum kits recently? Actually, that was all... Yeah, you actually witnessed, like, the last time I did that stuff. You fucked your shit up that day.

Yeah, I stopped doing that. Yeah. It was... That's, uh, sometimes you get signs. I had a big sign. I had a gash in my eye. And I was like, okay, this is... This is not healthy.

The past year and a half of pure destruction is That kind of fucking hurt Yeah, because your eye It's like right here It's like your eyebrows so close to your eye dude It is indeed It's right there I never thought about it though

Oh God Yeah One more inch That's the eyeball It's actually a tender spot too Huh? That's a tender spot too It's very easy to cut as well

And it You know it's The way it was bleeding It was like more It looked more than what it was. You was probably sweating too. Of course. I don't want to sweat though.

It probably looked pretty cool. No. Probably look pretty brutal. Maybe I was like, you're on 20s. I'm so fucking cool. But no, it's like, no, I'm in my fucking 30s. I'm in pain, I'm bleeding. I really, I got to go home.

Yeah. What if I don't get home to my cat? They'll never understand. No. No, dude. No, it was definitely not a cool feeling. But yeah, that was that ended the... That was in Atlanta.

Mm-hmm. That was a magical day. That was a really fun day. It was, man. People out, come and hang out and shit. Yeah. You jumping into a drum kit. I remember you falling on the Alex's bell brass snare.

And I'm just thinking to myself, that's the, that's the most stiff thing you could probably fall on on that drum kit. It didn't buckle. Like, you buckled. No, steel wins. If it's a combat and war between steel and flesh, we all know what's going to win. You know, that's, that's going to humble you. And you guys, so I didn't know until after. but you guys already did the tour was Seven Dust.

So you already knew Morgan. Yeah, yeah. The Dust. Seven Dust is sick. How was that tour? Amazing. It was sick. Yeah.

It's kind of like a, like, many of the tours we've had in our first part of our career. It was kind of like a bucket list thing. Bucket of the chorus. Kind of full circle. I feel like Seven Dust is top of the bucket list, too. I mean, that was out of all the, like, rock god tours we did, they were the coolest and their show was the best and Lujan's the best singer they were really nice and they're fans of the band it was really interesting that's

actually how we got the tour was uh they liked to kill the sun so much that oh wow that's somehow that got us the tour unbelievably we were like for real yeah we're not complaining none of it we're not playing any of that they invited us to do uh was it the first that that um new year's show yeah they invited us to do do this New Year's Eve show that I don't know if they hosted every year but I think they do it was at the masquerade and we had just sound checked or something and like he came out of his way from what he was doing with his group walked up to the stage to us and just like started spilling his guts about how he was a fan and he was honored to have us out and I was like this is crazy I'm what you're talking about

I've been buying your records with my dad since I was like, you know, before high school was ever, you know, a thing in my mind. So I would have bet you to say it was probably like, yeah, it's probably like fourth or fifth. It's animosity for me. I'm learning about Seven Dust. Wow. And then, and then Lejean just being as sweet as he is. That's sick. That's cool. It was really cool.

It was bizarre. I think it was the bucket lifting for sure. Yeah, it was really cool. It was like at the good paddling back, you know. Yeah. Seven Dust likes my band. I wasn't here for this part It was just told to me

But I think it was I think Clint and Morgan Walked up And they said something along the lines Of like Kill the Sun inspired them For their next record Yeah but I heard that with my own ears

And I was like That's the silliest thing To be more groove oriented Because they thought Kill the Sun was really groovy Or in the pocket or something like that And like I said I wasn't present for that

But that was yeah That was fucking crazy Because like Ryan said You know I was like six years old my mom showing me like animosity you're six yeah I used to be and yeah she showed me like animosity and poperoge and all that shit you know so it's it's one thing to get the tour with the guys but you know for them to say that I inspired them like that's fucking crazy dude like that's a full circle

exactly yeah yeah we yeah we forget that uh people are listening yeah yeah you just I mean you you you think I mean it's a It's easy to put it out there and just forget. It's also weird to think that people who make music listen to music, you know? Like you're telling me the people that I like to listen to also open up Spotify and go out of their way and listen to like new artists. Like how long... Totally. Because I know how jaded I became in music.

I feel like I've become slightly less jaded because, as James said, we got humbled. But there was a long time period. I don't listen any music. I was out of touch. I didn't even know like the cool new bands coming up in our... own scene. So are you back trying to just constantly trying to hear new stuff going to shows?

I'm trying. New Orleans doesn't really get many shows. Yeah, New Orleans is bad for that. Yeah, it's a pretty dead market when it comes to metal. We have a lot of E.m stuff, a lot of pop stuff. Lots of indie. Lots of indie. There's some local scene, though. I mean, there's some, like, Capra from, like, Western

Louisiana is doing, like, I think it would be considered grindish. Yeah, like, music, like, more extreme metal. like grind and sludge and stoner stuff that does really well and death metal and it still pops out of there

like goat horror and crowbar and shit you know classic bands I was listening to crowbar on the way up here just to get trying to that Louisiana

trying to get in your in your in your world man sludgy and slow yeah it's wildly accurate of the city itself I played a show with them once

it was them and blow remoder isn't that a crazy name That's blower motor. That's a great name. No, it's not. No, it's a good name. Sorry, boys.

A term popped in my brain today, because I was just listening to you guys talk, especially you wit. And I was like, I do respect how honest you tend to be. You know, and it was like, it was that Louisiana honesty, that it kind of just popped in my head. You know, it was pretty cool, which is why I wanted you on the podcast, especially now I've been kind of picky with who I want. I think you guys are a great band, and I think more people should hear about you guys. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah, I just mostly have a hard time shut in my mouth and filtering, you know, as far as honesty. So, yeah, I'm happy to be here without a filter. That was good. Yeah, you'd be surprised many people that have that filter. It's weird, you know, so when I hear people that don't have it, especially in the table, It's really hard for me to stop it. Oh, it's all shit. People are actually saying what's on mine.

Oh, wow, that's cool. It's nice, huh? Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. And you were talking about your past relationships. And obviously you have past relationships that maybe aren't the best. And then you went into your history. I was like, man, it made me think about my past relationships that I haven't thought about in like over two decades.

So it's cool. You know what? It's like music. But also it was sometimes someone will tell you something and then it will like plant a seed. So for you, it's like you kind of planted the seed without me knowing. And then like today I'm like driving up listening crowbar. Okay. And then those riffs kind of brought up something else.

And then like I was. Then I hit my J dude. Yeah. I'm not having. I'm sober. I'm just high on coffee, you know. Riffs will send you back. They do.

That's why. I do. That's why, like, that old trope, like, when you break up with somebody, like, it ruins some songs for you. Like, I mean, there are songs that you relate to how you felt, or, like, even, like, like, you, like, you don't even know that something is related to how you felt 10 years ago. And then you'll hear something you haven't heard in forever, and it'll send you back. Yeah, dude, there's songs that are hard to perform, depending on how I'm feeling sometimes because they're about somebody. that was in my life, you know. How did you do that?

How did I do what? Yeah. Well, how do you, like what? Because you say that, but you said earlier, like, well, I think about what I went through during that day. So what's, so what's like the difference? That just makes it worse, you know what I mean? So, I don't know, we just have, uh, it's usually like the more like lovey-dovey

songs, you know what I mean? A lot of times, Will it'll take my shortcomings and turn that into songs. Man makes songs. Yeah. So sometimes it is hard, especially. when I'm near them but you know like that kind of goes hand in hand

with what I was saying you know what I mean there's even more emotion when I think that they could be around they're probably not but maybe they are they probably aren't yeah

well is it like because you do backing vocals so do you still write lyrics and sit and I suggest things squad helps me and with like go back and forth whatever but it's mostly him you know what I mean

I kind of help with harmony sometimes, you know what I mean? But, yeah. Everybody's got a hand in everything. It's funny because, like, he started doing vocals because of seven dust. We did that tour with them, and we were talking about Morgan doing, like, the backing screams and shit, and then we were getting into the studio to start writing something. I can't remember what. Maybe it was the EPs.

But we were like, what if James kind of just did some, like, A, B takes off the wit? and like, you know, kind of riffed off them, you know. And, yeah, it turned into something really fucking sick, you know. Yeah, I never considered myself a vocalist. Even listening to it now, I'm like, this shit sucks, what? Yeah. I'm sure most people feel that way about their voice. But, yeah.

Of course. I just got thrown at me. And it's really fun. It's really hard to juggle sometimes. But, you know, it's really fun when you, like, get that muscle memory of, like, how to play a part and sing at the same time. How do you do that? I can't tell you.

I have to slow it down and like do it in steps and then like slowly get to full speed. But yeah. Fuck, yeah. I'm in that, I'm in that. I'm in that, because anyone that I meet has, that plays and seems at the same time, I'll ask him, how do you? There's some stuff that I wish I could do with him. I just can't. Like we have a song called Drag Me Down and there's like a breakdown in it.

And it's like seven over four and then six over four or something like that. And like, he's like, he screams drag me down over it. I can't do it with it. them it's just too hard I can't like dirka dur like you know what I mean like it's just so you so you slow it down first and then you build it to where you're comfortable yeah like um like okay so we have a song called blood and honey and in the bridge I do this like melodic thing and every phrase is different like every bar is a different fingering thing and I had to like bring that way down to like very very slow and be like okay when I hit this fret I'm saying this word you know what I mean

I kind of like do it like that and then like speed it up. I can't, typically I can't jump into it right away. Like he'll be like, we'll be at rehearsal. I'll be like, can you do this part? I'm about going to be like next week, maybe, you know what I mean? I got to wait a whole week. But yeah. It's worth the wait.

Pathetic. Damn, I don't even know where to start, but, uh... I would say your riffs are pretty hard to sing and scream over in... I don't think so. I'll start somewhere. Yeah, four, four, four, but your fingers are ripping. You're picking fast. Come on now, right.

but i say that as a guy i got two one zero two one zero and a little bit of fucking tremlo that's it the hardest song that's all yes bro appreciate that thank you thank you it's all it's all simple but it's it's it's simple to me maybe i'm just so aggramed by people talking shit i'm pretty sure's like 15 years maybe i just think i'm pretty sure i couldn't play what you played to save my life so uh i like to consider myself a pretty talented guitarist Don't laugh. Yeah, I'm pretty bad. You know, he's got.

I laughed at him. I laughed at him. I laughed at him. Oh, shit. Yeah, I'm pretty horrible. He's fucking around. Yeah, I got sarcasm on my mind. Yeah. I think your riffs are, I think, I think patterns and cadences

honestly make it harder to sing and scream over. Like, it's less, it's less like, like, when he said he's playing notes and he's, like, picking which note to sing that word over. For anything that I do, like, if I'm writing, like, a, my, shitty little acoustic songs. That's how I do it as well. Like I'll sit there and I'll figure out what down or up strum

like the word comes in on. But when you were having chaotic cadences, even if it's 4-4, if the picking is crazy and intrinsic or even if it's like rhythmic and then the vocals are like an offbeat on top of that,

that's your brain trying to do the like tap tap rub thing. Yeah. A hard time with that. Probably times like two or three because you're doing chugging. chug,

chug, finger, finger, and then also a different pattern. It's not easy, you know? No. You gotta practice that. Gojiro is crazy. It's kind of the roundabout point. Yeah, the older you get,

the more you got to practice. You know, because, well, you were talking about the jaded. I look at being jaded as a lifetime cancer. Yes. It's like once you get it, it doesn't go away, and you're basically trying to put it in.

Fighting it. You're basically fighting it on, I would argue, a daily basis. I was same way. I was jaded as fuck. I'm jaded. And then once there's a period where, you know, it could be for you guys, it was an awakening

of being self-managed or you got to have to hit now what do to, when you're aware you're a jaded and then you try to fix it, it's like, oh, wow, this is, I mean, this is literally, you guys are helping me. This is a part of my journey, you know, this, listening to songs, me and Ernie, go to every show we can around here. Keeps you in. It's literally like, okay, then I really felt like. I felt it shrinking

After like a while You know I'm doing this for over three years You know It just shrinks It's like it doesn't go away And in the moment I might

I don't know A day or two Think like things are cool Nope Yeah it's gotta fix it All that work you did To shrink it It goes away

Quick dude And it's fucking scary It just grows Like you're shrink Shrinking the cancer And then It does that again It spreads

It spreads throughout your soul It's evil It's deep too It's I don't know how the experience was for you guys when you first got picked up, but I think my personal catalyst was I had all these really powerful and wealthy people telling me I was going to be this and that. Oh, wow.

I'm 18 years old, you know what I mean? And they're like, they're throwing all these opportunities. They're like, oh, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. You know what I mean? And kind of like we were talking about earlier, you get to a point where you just, unfortunately you begin to expect these things you know what I mean and then one day you wake up and those things aren't there anymore you know what I mean and so that I think that's a good way to sum up you know the the whole jaded thing and like recovering from being jaded and this

that and the other you know nothing is guaranteed and um no ego is your enemy you need a little bit of an ego but like it's it's dangerous you got to think you're good it's dangerous you You gotta know you're not great. You know what I mean? Like you gotta have confidence in what you do. But it's easy to, it's really easy to cross the line and become disrespectful, air again, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada.

Every day, I'll say something like, yeah, I hate Toren. And then immediately I have to be like, no, I don't. No, I don't. I like doing this. I love making music. I love playing shows. I hate being tired, is the truth.

It's not. So, like, fixing that jadedness and, like, revisiting it and seeing what you're really mad about. I'm just tired. I'm just grumpy. I'm just grumpy, dude. I'm grumpy.

I think a big part of it is, is recognizing the Ws too. And there's Windsor. There's a lot of Ws. There's a lot more Ws today than there was back in the day, to be honest. You know what I mean? Totally. Unfortunately, the elves have such a big impact. Oh, do you do they?

They have a big impact. Sounds like a... Try to ignore them nowadays. Do you think in like a weird way like When you had like the like this transition phase It was actually a great thing that happened to you Absolutely every day in my life Right? It's fucked up every day I'm grateful for it man

I can't speak for everybody but I think I think when I stopped having my handheld by the big powerful people I think that made me a better songwriter and a better performer and a Just overall better person I think So too far gone. How was like the writing process like for that record? Like how are we guys as like a band writing song to?

Too far or kill the sun? Too far. We were so busy the year before. I think we like literally showed up to Drew's with a few maybe songs. Oh no, yeah. We did some co-rides. That smile was the one that we had nothing for.

Going to Too Far Gone is when we wrote with everybody and their mother. and had a, like... Didn't we, like, just not keep any of it either? Like, 90% of it, yeah. There's a lot of co-rights we did that we were like, this was a waste of time. This was a big waste of time. I think that, I mean,

that was during the time period when, I mean, so we were picked up by a management company that had never really had, like, a small band. They'd only ever really worked with, like, six bands that had already seen success, so they weren't sure what to do with us, I think, is, like, the brass hacks of it. But, that,

Being independent and self-managing is how we come to realize what was happening. But, I mean, like, they wanted us to write rock songs. They wanted us to write octane songs. They sent us to a bunch of songwriters who have had commercial success with, like, bands like Three Days Grace and disturbed and things like that. Really, really prolific writers. Prolific writers. And talented writers. I learned a lot.

But the songs were bad. The songs were not what we wanted, you know. It was not. No one could. no one could really like capture who you know what we were going for it was weird

also no one told us what they were trying to do like we assume they were trying to make rock hits by sending us to the rock people but we we were never briefed hey go write rock songs so we're in there like we're gonna write cane hill songs and these guys are like power chords they're like boomers you know what I mean they're like

they're like 1700 years old and I'm coming in there with my doggadow and they're like, I thought we were riding a hit. I'm like, yeah, they said I thought we were writing a hit. We're like, well, I thought I was writing a hit. They told you that? Yeah, and yeah, like verbatom. Yo, in fairness, they do have hits.

Sure, you know. They have experience with hits, and we had experience with Dow Goddow. You know? Wow. But I guess it goes back to what we're seeing earlier. I probably showed you, it probably taught you what, sometimes you did experience something in our lives. Okay, I know I know I don't want that.

We don't want that. Sometimes you don't know. Sometimes you have an idea in your head or something that is presented to you. Oh, cool. I say this all the time. I think a lot of song writing, like when you're writing a song, you have an idea, right? I think a lot of it is figuring out what not to do. You know what I mean?

Dude. You barely rarely get it. That's a lot. That sucks. That sucks. That's a lot. Back to 4-4. Do you do it?

4-4? It's hard. You play 404? I'll say it a million times. It's hard to do, man. No, keep the drums at 4-4-4. Let the guitar go dumb. Yeah, or switch it.

Yeah, sometimes you kind of know what not to do. Now you know what to do, you know. So you guys are dropping a record November 1st. I was kind of confused how it... I never seen it, a band released something like this, so I was kind of confused. Is it because it says... Sure.

Is it because it says it's an EP on Spotify? What's a record? So you guys have like the record released showing that's going to be coming up on November 1st. But then, are the songs that were on the EP, that says EP. Yeah, that's like a Spotify, right? Modern Spotify, bro.

We are quite literally going through the throes of understanding it with you. Because we haven't released an album in so long and everything's changed. A lot of people think it's an EP. A lot of things, and that's also new on Spotify, I think. Like, they've updated a lot of the, like, the, like, nomenclature of things. They've added text places that wasn't there. like sure you can put your music videos on your Spotify page now they're going they're going to walk with that app development comments do they're trying yeah they're

trying to make it a social media platform which is interesting I'm not I'm not against a social media music platform but I still think they should pay they should totally pay but yeah so now like always happening a real time right now yes sir yes sir they um so they when labels release our songs now. The move is apparently, which makes sense. And it's actually what we were trying to do with the EP originally when we were releasing it during COVID. We were trying to do this where you release a song that's a part of an album.

And then you release the next songs that are still a part of that album, but you include the other songs. Yes. In that, that way it's a, it's called the waterfall. So you continue listening to those new songs. But when you release a certain amount of songs on a body of work, and the album's not out, it's automatically recognized as an EP by Spotify. Oh. Because it's an extended play length, you know?

It has an extended play amount of songs. So it's become pretty confusing. And yeah, I don't. Yeah, Spotify is funny. Like, when you go to our discography, it doesn't even have Kill the Sun. Like, you kind of have to, like, sift through every one of our releases to even find Kill the Sun. Yeah. We are a mess on Spotify.

But I think a lot of bands are a mess on Spotify. I mean, the other day we saw a bunch of AI songs get added to metalcore bands like track listing and discography. It happens, yeah. Yeah. It's a casual. It happens. Yeah. It shouldn't, you know? It shouldn't.

Like with a multi-billion dollar industry that basically runs online music, they should, you should not be able to do that. You should not be able to upload AI as an artist, claim it, have it go through, successfully start streaming, be monetized until. someone recognizes it and points out the problem. But that's an argument for another day because I just get mad at bad app development at this point. It's 24. It's a better app. Yeah, it's unfortunately,

I learned the hardware as common. Once it happens to you, one day I just woke up and I said, I got a text, is there a new song on your Spotify? I'm like, look, what the fuck is that? And I still look back, I'm like, I wonder if it was done on purpose

because it was done on a holiday. So no one was in the office at TM. Mm-hmm. So it's like, I was like, I was fucking pissed, dude. Yeah, man. And couldn't get a hold of anyone at the label that could log in. So now I have like, I learned through that. And then they told me this is actually pretty common where things is crazy.

Things would just show up on your artist page. And obviously, this whole thing happened with an entire genre. So now I have personal login. Yeah. I was like, give me the fucking pass. You should have had a personal login long ago, buddy. I need to, I know. I was totally.

the joy of learning self-managing and becoming more empower, you're like, why the fuck didn't I have logins to all this shit? Yeah. And I put out, like, this, like, one track, it's like, just on my name, and then it showed up on someone else's page. I was like,

it was like, it was like, other garser or something, I was like, I was like, fuck. The hell, dude. It should be, just put it up here, and then it shows up on that. Always the should-bees. You know? It's always should-bees. But, okay, so. so this was meant

it was meant to be a waterfall of a record yes okay yeah dude literally eddie texted me and said I love the EP I was like wait till you hear the whole album okay I was go if you guys want to clarify up more yeah I was confused I'm like wait

I see the record date am I talking about the record am I talking about EP they didn't put out EP's for a few years what am I going to talk about right now we're just keeping you on your toes you know it kind of works it feels like Spotify's keeping people

on their toes. None of it makes any sense. The music industry is confusing. It's still new, man. It's all new. If you think about on the grand scheme of things, streaming's what, like basically 10, 11 years old, I barely had like Apple Maps back. This is still new. Well, who really made this all happen with Rogan.

So, like, once he went to Spotify because, like, they agreed for him, hey, well, we'll start putting videos up there. So it went in the podcast world first, which I've experienced, you know, they allow you to put video, if you're lucky, like myself, I was very lucky.

I got personally invited so you could monetize it. But I was like, okay, but what, and then I heard, you overhear rumors. If I'm looking to apply, I'm getting out one of my secrets for my band,

but just for everyone, it's not my secrets, for everyone else to take. But if I want advice or what's going to happen in the music industry, I don't listen to bands or the music.

I'm like, what are podcasters doing? Because they're actually always, they seem to be first lately. because they're doing everything first with Spotify now they have like the video on Spotify comments you you could comment on a podcast

I was like this was I want to say it's only two months old that's crazy and you could choose to approve or not you know I was like okay but this is happening here in podcasting I know exactly where it's going

to music yeah I could just assume the natural like progression it's like the McDonald's of fast foods where it's like the trend tester real quick to see what does work, what people want to interact with, and then they can move it over to the other products. Well, podcasting is a quicker

type of media content to produce. Like, there's you know, there's podcasters that shoot every single day, and it's super current. Yeah. And a band has to wait a month a year to release a song, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Actually, I don't know. So with podcasting, when you're releasing

episodes, I mean, when you release a song, you have to pitch it like three weeks ahead of time you have to make sure that Spotify like is recognizing that you're putting out the song no with podcasting it's just spooop like for example this is going up Monday easy yeah well the editing today will not be exactly easy but i mean it's however long it takes for the video to upload it's it's it's there but you're not quite as like beholden to like the Spotify like algorithm and waiting and that's sick literally like this could go up today technically that's Sick.

Do podcasts have a playlisting? Like, is there a bunch of hour-long episodes on a playlist of different podcasters or something? It's similar to records where, if a certain record, like, if you listen to a record on Spotify and the record's done, it'll just kind of automatically play the next thing. Sure. So that's kind of like that. There's kind of like podcast radio. You finish a podcast. It's like, I think you'll like this.

It just goes and goes, and hopefully you have a, these days they call it content. but uh yeah um see where it just kind of goes and goes you know but you know i just i relate to what's happening there then it's a matter of time and then now you guys are experienced we're experiencing you know like uh you guys okay well where's all the money going you know if they put a video up there you know they're getting video streams they get song streams they get ad revenue they get gold bricks and big yachts you know how are they going to watch the video you know And I've been like, I've been, I'll look like once a month. Okay, where's like the video, where's the music video situation at Spotify?

I'll look like once a month to start doing some like deep diving and stuff. Okay, it's not up yet, but it seems like it's close. I mean, they have the stories. Like they have the like highlight stories up now. Feels very close. They've got. It's going wacky on Spotify. Yeah.

I didn't think I'd live to see it turn into a social media platform. No, dude, I've learned of which I mean, part in the same boat, like just keep open mind. Adapt. I'm trying. Yeah, adapt, yeah. But cool. I mean, anyone, good news is anyone can do it. You know, it's fucking poke in.

What's what's what's going on? Okay. That's a funny thing. You think you got to figure it out, but it just keeps me. Fuck, no, dude. Fuck, I don't know. Who does? Yeah.

If someone said to you like, hey, I got this shit. Figure it out, but you trust them? No. Yeah. I'd be like, well, you do. And I'd be like, uh-uh. Yeah. You got to figure it out today, but not tomorrow.

Yeah. It's true. You know, and we have experience with people telling you. It's funny, when people tell you stuff now, now you have a filter in your mind where you're listening, but you have a filter. You know, okay, what does this really mean? What does this really mean?

How can I get through the suit talk? Yeah. I mean, but like literally releasing our music for this record, but I've been on the phone with our manager, I'm like, yeah, what the hell's going on? And he's like, things have changed. I was like, in like three years? Because like, okay, because like three years ago, I mean, getting playlisted was a lot easier.

We did it independently. Ali Hagendorf, she was doing it over on Spotify for a while. She was really in tune with the scene. I think she made it easier to like send music and get it playlisted. But now, like, there's like an influx of music. Spotify's changing, as we said. So I'm like on the phone, like, yo, why is, why are we getting playlisted like two weeks later instead of when we used to get playlisted pretty quickly? is like yeah Spotify's different

like it takes more time they're more selective they're weirder about it sure and I'm like damn that sucks it's only been like two years mm-hmm I'm tired I'm tired dude I hate I hate torn I hate torn no I just hate tired

yeah I remember one one era like the biggest promotion tool was MySpace next record it was dead yeah really yeah you're right it was crazy so so in my mind as a 12 year old

I always thought that that's how y'all got big was Myspace and that sweet breakdown that's the one that took y'all, man I swear, bro. Yeah, very lucky. But then after Myspace, what do you do? Then you had Facebook. Facebook wasn't meant for music at all.

It's still not really meant for music at all. It is true, huh? YouTube wasn't very good back then. No. Damn. Yeah, the death of Myspace was awesome. But it wasn't the powerhouse that it is today. Like, I don't think Google owned it back then or whatever.

Maybe they didn't fucking know. But no, some guy just posted a video of the zoo. Yeah, I don't, good question. I wonder who owned YouTube, like, when it first started. I don't think it was, I think Google bought it, like, some time later. They did, you know. Yeah, but I think it was just owned by two people. Hey, Chris, type in when did Google buy YouTube.

I'm just curious. And how much? That's a good question When did a 2006? For how much? One point What's that in today's money?

That's right after Katrina, you know. So Google announced the acquisition of YouTube on October 9th, 2006. Google paid $1.6 billion. Wow. That's got to be 90. Pennies. Pennies, really.

2006 pennies? When you look at what YouTube's become quite a deal. It's a pretty big steal to me. It's cool. We all have access to it. I don't like YouTube. YouTube's like the one platform that has been around

the whole time that I'm still like, hell yeah. I like this one. I love you. I have YouTube premiums. I've got everything you want. I bought that shit. I learn everything. I watch everything. I can listen to music on it. I'm so curious about this. So what? So $100

in 2006 is worth $156 today. 1.6 billion. So that's probably I mean, would that be $2 million then? 2 billion? More billions?

It's more than that. More. Can you type in that amount? Like the full 6.50. And then a lot of zeros. Yeah. That's million and

that's billion. Wow. Wait, is that right? Yeah. It's worth. It's worth 2.5. Damn. It went up from 2006 to 2024.

It went up almost 1 billion. Well, now we're going to start talking about socialism. Inflation bad. Now we'll start talking about redistributing wealth. The $4.00. So 1.6 million in 2006 is worth 2.5 today. Damn, I never do that. I'm going to kill myself.

No. No, I'm poor now. No. Look at it. I mean, you guys have lived it. Like, you're always kind of, it's always going to go away. It's always something.

What? The sadness? Oh, that too. The current event that's got me down. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Well, dude, to think about, think about what you do. You get to sing in a band.

Like, yeah, it's going to be hard. It's fucking sick. It's going to be, you literally have one of the coolest, you guys have one of the coolest jobs on the planet. don't rationalize how cool my life is dude don't put it in front of my face and make me feel good about how i'm doing god damn i'm mad i'm mad i feel good at the same time same shit different day yeah but uh yeah i'm allowed to feel good and bad at the same time and it happens every day yeah it's it's gonna be hard it's gonna be literally like the hardest you want uh it's funny

like everyone uh i've been thinking about bringing the horizon a lot there's that they because fucking ollie man. He has this lyric everybody wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die you know it's like yeah but I guess to relate to the music it's like everyone wants this happiness but if you want a certain amount of happiness you're going to experience the same amount of low like you're just not going to be happy like that

and then the sadness is going to stay you're going to have an equal so yeah you felt this but you're going to have an equal or lower low to have that could heaven and death are the polar opposite as death is the end in heaven is the perfection afterwards. Yeah.

It sounds kind of corny, but I mean, it's... Let's get corny. It really is about the journey, man. You know, that is... It's about the ride, brother.

It is about, like, leveling up and, like, reaching new goals. Because if you, if you just, like, put in the infinite health cheat, infinite money cheat,

I mean, it's not fun anymore, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you got money. Money's so sick. I love money. But, like,

it's just, it... That's not what I'm gonna look back on you know what I mean I'm gonna look back on moments like this or like the moments when we got like dropped and how we came back from it and how prideful I feel about that you know what I mean so yeah it's all it's just yeah we've got remind ourselves this is a journey man it's just a fucking journey you know but it's very long and arduous yeah but we always want to rush there sure and projects especially records or

songs and in in your case it's just like we have I've been trying to get this record out. How long? Well, originally. It's been written. We finished tracking it last January. This is our longest album release rollout. Wait, not this January.

Like, January? Yeah. Oh. Yeah, man. What's been going on? Oh. We got the label halfway through writing it. Oh.

Or something. Okay. There's just all. Okay. So I think the very, very first thing that held us back was this whole thing about we can't get vinyl. You know, like you have to have your vinyl if you're going to release your record, all right? You know, and it's like, but give them the vinyl later. And they're like, no, we're suits.

You don't do that. You know, so that held us up. And then, you know, you know how it is doing videos. You get quoted this, turns into that. Sure. It takes longer than it's supposed to. This takes longer than it's supposed to. And then you're like, okay, we finish that.

Can we release it now? And they're like, well, hold up, hold up. The algorithm doesn't like it when you release music that fast. I'm like, son of a bitch, you know what I mean? So, yeah, it's just kind of just these problems keep resenting themselves, you know? And it's a double-edged sword, right? Because you could, like, spit it all out, just give them the record. But there is something to be said about doing all these singles, I guess.

You know what I mean? It kind of puts a spotlight on everything. It kind of keeps your name floating around. Every song gets a chance to be heard. You know, because, like, not everybody's going to give your shit a chance or a full, you know, like, listen, you know. Every release is another chance, you know what I mean? That's a good way to say it.

Every release is another chance. Thank you for that. It's cool. I'm going to take that. Yeah, put it in the box. Yeah. I got my toolbox of things I learned on this thing. Oh, fucking.

Well, I'll do it when you get older, man, you need any where you get inspiration or clarity. You know, every day you wake up, someone's trying to fuck you. You're always a student, brother. Always, always. Devin, I wanted to personally apologize to you before giving you COVID, man. I'm sorry.

I apologize, man. Yeah, that story was, uh, it was an interesting time. We were touring right after the pandemic, kind of like calmed down a little bit, and Live Nation was like, oh, we can hold shows again. but to sold out crowds and trying to do the restriction thing and stuff like that

but you just had to jump off that balcony you had to jump off the balcony yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah I put back for it later you know he was texting that's the whole time saying he was having a good time he loved the hotel room

and that being secluded was cool he was like these guys are fucking crazy he's like this is great you know and actually it's great I have peace of mind everyone's sick how do you feel now after the fact yeah oh it was a awesome I think it made us closer I don't think he has COVID anymore no yeah no I meant like uh sometimes people have like a residual feeling after like uh like they might have like you're all you people say what long long color long COVID no I mean I've had it four times now

so okay uh it's it's the worst every time but I look at more like what it did for our personal relationships. I don't think I would have gotten to known you guys that deeply if we weren't all stuck in that hotel room in middle of nowhere, North Carolina. Yeah. You know, like that we, we went more into that realm with that opportunity. So it's cool. Honestly, I'm kind of thankful you gave me COVID brother. It gave me an opportunity to get to know y'all. No, no, don't fucking clap that. No, it's bad. It gave me an opportunity to know y'all. Cool, yeah. Yeah, well, it led to a mini tour.

Mm-hmm. It's cool. Which was sick. That's fun. Our entrance into Death Corps tours. What are you guys doing? You're doing it again right now with signs. I don't know, man.

It works out. It seems to go really well for us to tour with Death Corps bands. I don't know. I had no idea of Death Corps people like singing. Oh, they do. I got them putting their hands in the air and waving them back and forth. I'm like, oh, my God, y'all never done this at a Death Corps show, right? Wow.

They're like, wait, this thing goes up. It goes up. No, it works out really If we hadn't gone on that tour with you I swear to God I don't know Where we'd be at this exact moment Because that tour Y'all's fans were like

Welcome to us with open arms And like our first tours with the Acacia Strain So we had experience with like really heavy bands And their fans did not like us Mind you, we were really bad We were a bad band It was our first tour I didn't know how to scream

It happens I felt like I had lava in my throat I probably would have hated us too Sure But that was like Our first and last experience With like Like

Extreme Heavy And then going on tour with y'all We're like Devon said it's gonna be good And we do like suicide silence It's cool Opened our eyes

Yeah because like You wouldn't think there's a crossover But like we're making a lot of new fans On this tour And I'm sure we made a lot of new fans playing with y'all, just people that wouldn't normally catch us, you know? Sure. It's cool melding the genres.

I mean, there's elitism that lives in it, you know? I'm a metal core guy. I don't listen to much, death core, and I've listened to heavier music ever since going on tour with y'all. Well, and... That's sick? It is sick. Like, it's brought me into that world a little bit more,

and it's cool to know that, like, there is a section of the fan bases that can be combined. I mean, there's obviously going to be deathcore people death core fans that like only death core they don't they don't they don't fuck with us and that's fine or us

yeah I'm sure there's came no fans that don't fuck with the other bands on tour that we're playing on but sure you know for a fact you can see it you can see the death core fans and the metal core fans like even for 156 they got a chant last night at the death core show everybody was screaming one five six

one five six and they're a metal core band by the way plug they just put out their album today uh huh oh great no yesterday yesterday it's Friday Probably yesterday. But, so, like, to have, like, even one of, like, the second band playing on a five-band package is Metalcore. The rest are Death Corps except us. And they're getting chance of, like, excitement and applause and, like, this sick, nasty reaction from Death Corps fans as well as ours.

So, like, and then of Sulfur and the Death Corps fans are, bands are getting reactions from ours. It's nice. Because everyone's like, oh, Metalcore band can't tour the Deadcore band. deathcore band we're like why we're doing it it's cool wow it's working out it's great news it is great news yeah i agree it's kind of normally hype uh i think i heard you guys told a story where like you guys played cherry action which is actually your show tonight when you sold two t-shirts and it sucked probably and now uh now you're back and well no you came back another another good show it's great and now yeah made way more than 20 bucks you know yeah and now it's

It's probably another, you know. I think it's pretty close to sold out. I think it's out tonight. Wow. So it's getting better. Dude, tour. Now, tors change and one is like, all right. And the next time you come back, it's like, oh, shit.

I don't fucking know where we're at anyway. I guess we gained fans. Yeah, it's all about the fans you gain along the way. It really felt random like that. Like, there was a long time where it was like, we're doing bad. And then one day it was like, hey, wait a minute. You know what I mean? This is good.

All right. You know what I mean? This year feels different to me. I don't know about the other guys, but like this tour, the tour that we did in Europe genuinely feels different. Like, back when we were touring with y'all, we were still kind of in like that transitional phase. And it felt good.

It felt like, oh, we're doing something better than what we did. But it's been like a constant growing thing. And then this tour is just like, ah, are we cool? You know, we're like looking at our stories. We're looking at, like, our peers posting about us and, like, the metal core community enjoying it. And we've always kind of been like that outskirt metalcore band because we did new metal-y stuff, you know. But now as I'm looking, I'm like, are we sick?

Yeah, I guess to expand on what Witt's saying there, when the band debuted, there was only a handful of those new metal, new metal core type bands. And I'd even argue to say that we were too early for that, because, I mean, you look at what's popular. We were too sick. You know what I mean? but um so we were too weird for okay so we were too young for the boomer rock crowd and our but our sound was too old for the metal core crowd and so we were just in this weird middle place where like it just really wasn't like landing the way that it was supposed to you know what I mean

because we didn't want to fully commit to I'm just used the word butt rock we just didn't want to full send that you know what I mean we could we could write some good butt rock we kind of have you know what I mean I guess you could call kill the son that or it's more grunge

Lord of Flies is butt rock you look at our songs like it follows and Lord of Flies I mean that's just like it's simple bread and butter New Jesus like that's as simple as it gets you know what I mean but yeah we somewhere over COVID

I got a seven strength That was it Got that nice ESP dude We literally watched Crystal Lake on tour with us And we were like We can't hit that note Truthfully that's what it was Like they were in like F

And I was like that's a cool note That's a cool note That's a cool note. We can't hit that note with six strings Wow I need more string But yeah I love those guys

They're awesome But uh yeah They're OGs too Yeah yeah They've been doing it And they've been doing it well They give it their all Every night

Playing after them in Europe Was not very fun like the continental Europe back then like we went on it we were on a tour with Crystal Lake Us 36 Crazy Fist which is tight legendary and then Barry Tomorrow eclectic group of touring bands but Crystal Lake

one of those bands that when you have to play after them you're like son of a bitch do I really have to go and compete with that like they just melted people I gotta go put them back together or something I can't melt them any further and then Pork 36 Crazy Fist goes on and it's like I love them

but like two bands with like tracks, campers, big sounds and then classic metalcore goes on and it's like this is tough then Barry tomorrow I was just like okay we'll bring it back and then they smashed it so it's all good but cool the roundabout point is Crystal Lake could hit F

we were very jealous we coveted we coveted going after them after they hit notes we can't even hit was like it's great I wasn't ready. Yeah, I wasn't ready at all. I was so excited to tour them. I wasn't ready to be humbled every single night.

And we most certainly were humbled. Wow. You don't know until you see it. They're like, oh, sometimes you see a lineup. Okay, cool. And then you see it like, oh, fuck. That's the cool thing about touring. You know what I mean?

You don't expect these things. You know, like I didn't, when I went on that tour, I didn't expect to learn so much or like get so close with them. You know what I mean? Which is crazy because there was a huge, language barrier. Big old language barrier. You know, I know how to have fun. The only way we communicated was like sign language and alcohol.

You know what I mean? Just handing joints like, huh? Yes. Yes. Yes. It wasn't our first rodeo though. We had experience from hanging out with cold rains. So we, we had that going for us.

We are good with assimilating. Crystal Lake was on a whole different level. How did you guys get on the, uh, NXT? How did you guys get on the, uh, NXT? Bight, bro. Just butt rock. I don't know. They probably discovered us on Octane.

I don't know how they discovered us, but it was them. They reached out to our management and they wanted to have us on. And they happened to be in Louisiana. Yeah. That was just crazily convenient because we were like, can we play? It probably added weight to their decision to pick us, maybe. Maybe, I don't know, because the original discussion didn't even have us performing it. The original discussion was just like they wanted to use our music, but we were like,

Code Orange played. and you'll be in New Orleans. Can we plan? They originally, and this is probably a good thing to explain to kind of give some background and why I keep saying what I've been saying. But they wanted smile,

but they looked at our social media because that's kind of a good point. It's like you're always being watched. Whether you realize it or not, whether you only have like a couple followers or a shit ton of followers, like there's people watching. you, you know, if you're in the circuit.

Judge him. And they thought we were way too crazy. Because, dude, wrestling's kind of like YouTube and Disney. It's like a family, like, kid thing. It's not the attitude error anymore. And we're posting X and Y on our story. And they're like, oh, hell nay. You know what I mean?

You said hell nay? Yeah, I did. And so they waited. And then too far came out. and at that point they were kind enough to tell us this they did let us know and so we cleaned up the act

you know what I mean that was like that was one of the first wake-up calls of like quite a few wake-up call yeah maybe we're not doing the right thing you know what I mean but they came back when too far was released or getting put out

and I think that was better anyway looking back I like the songs on Too Far more than smile A lot of fans would disagree, a lot of OG fans would disagree. The guys of WWE would disagree. I talked to them recently, and they still talk about smile. I'm like, that's quite easy. Wow.

Wrestling loves it. Hey, Chris, can you type it in, please? Thank you. I was like, how did you get that show? Play the smoothie king arena. It was wild, man. It was the coolest thing I've ever done. Live TV to.

Oh, gosh. They rolled us out on a stage. We did, It Follows, and then we did a wrestler entrance too for this. Really? Yeah, we played Ember Moons walkout theme song with Lizzie Hale. NXT, Chris. What is it? You just have NXT.

NXT. Yeah, this shit's sick. I didn't tell anybody about this. I didn't announce it to anyone. Why? Like the texts when I got off stage. I was like, did I just see you on pay-per-view? I was like, yeah, man.

Were you too nervous? Hey, what if this thing goes terribly wrong? You know, something did go wrong. Yeah, something did go. Yeah, the computer froze. Freaked out. And they were like, y'all need to start, and Devin's like, hold on.

Hold on. I mean, like, pissing myself. Live, pay-per-view. Yeah, dude, the arena. The arena went black. Yeah. The whole arena went black. Oh, man.

Heavy metal. Yeah. Possibly my coolest fit ever. I look sick. That happened. Is there any volume or no? Yeah, so like every screen in that arena was Cain Hillified. Pretty not.

I mean... It's the most insane production you've ever seen in your life. Yeah, I mean, when you walk out into the middle of an arena, 16,000 people sold out, and every screen that you can see has your band on it is... It's a sobering experience. I can say. Yeah, they made all that, like, art, like, our logo with all that art and shit.

We didn't, we didn't even know that was going to be there. They had all that stuff set up. It was so cool that it was just done. Like, it was, like, truly an experience. I mean, look at all this life. Jesus. My wife was losing her mind. She loves WWE.

She was probably as stoked as us. So are you off the click there? Or no. No, we were playing OClick there. I got it. I got it work in. It was about 10 seconds of them yelling at me telling me to go and then I got it working. Yeah, what do you do, man?

I just told him to wait. Yeah, I was like, yeah, we're going to wait a second, bro. You better fucking wait for it. This is live. I need to start now. I'm in a heart attack. Yeah, I can't look back at this and be like, oh, fuck. They're fucked up.

We're not doing this without tracks, baby. We got carted out on that stage, too. Oh, yeah, they wheeled us. We had to stand in place and then they wheeled us out into the room. Sick, dude. And in the wrestler entrance, we shared their performance with Lizzie Hale from Hailstorm. Also very sick. Yeah.

Amber Moon was the wrestler that we performed that girl with the purple hair. And she was the NXT, like, champ at that time. She was moving up, huh? Yeah, and it was, like, put into place that she was going to lose the match that we played the song for her to go do. but that was going to be her ascension into like going to the actual WWE. Oh, wow. Called up to the majors. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

It was cool to see Triple H kind of run the show too. He really does. He's hands on. He's out there every day. That dude's got the biggest arms I've ever seen in my entire life. Didn't he come out and see you guys like rehearse? Yeah, he came and watched us. He put his arm around me to take that like a group photo and I fell forward.

Yeah, he's like nine. foot 12. Yeah, the weight of his arm. He pushed my little stoner body on accident. It was crazy. And he's not the tallest person, but I mean, he put his arm around us and I felt myself like. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Straight up. He's dead. It was cool. He shook his hand and his hand just like. It just fucking puts you in a fucking pedigree. Oh, James is dead. He watched us rehearse that song like five, six times. Really?

Yeah. Yeah, he was pretty hands-on. I think he was the one that was like, we had a long intro for that song with the bells and stuff and he needed it shorter for the runtime.

Was he to shorter or longer? I think it was shorter. I can't remember. And so he was pretty hands-on during that rehearsal of being like, hey, y'all should do this instead of this, blah, blah, blah, you know. Like, he was, he was on it.

Triple H. And a super nice dude. It was the most professional and well-oiled production, I think any of us have ever been a part of. Music and history

could learn a thing or two. Although German festivals are pretty close. Mm-hmm. Yeah. German festivals are pretty efficient, but not quite as efficient

as the world wrestling. There was just, like, no errors. Like, any error was us. You know what I mean? Like, they were on their shit. It was crazy. Real TV moment.

What was cool about the wrestler theme, too, is they have these guys called the CFOs that write all the wrestler themes and the tunes and stuff like that. Yeah. And they, And they kind of allowed us to kind of reimagine Amber Moon's entrance song.

So we were able to kind of like put our own spin on her songs, which was really sick, like to have that opportunity not only to have like the freedom to do that, but like, oh, you trust me enough to do that? Like, oh my God, dude. It was cool working with Lizzie Hale too because she was so sweet and down the earth. And we had crossed paths with her again. again and she remembered us and it was really cool. A personal moment for me, she had, her signature was about to come out, her Black Explorer,

and she had the prototype with her, and she let me jam on it. And it was so new that the strings were like coming out of the nut. It was just totally brand new. And she liked how I played and stuff. And she had a lot of nice things to say. But like I said, we crossed past with her again at Shiprocked. I think another festival or two. And she always said, hey, always remembered us.

So it was really good. That's sick. Yeah. Makes us feel neat. The new record is dropping November 1st. November 1st. New full record. Full record.

Okay. No more EP confusion. Okay. Although it does sound like a pretty solid EP if you just listen to what's released, so I get it. If I'm ever listening to your record, the whole, like, waterfall thing, I'll see, like, I'll click the EP. All right, these songs are on the record, so I'll just click, click the record and let it go. but this one made it more I was just confused

I recommend at the gym Anybody who's listening in the record When it is finally out Listen to it Like from beginning to end Like if you want to You know what I mean If you want to experience it the way it was intended

Because they are ordered in a way That we think Hits the hardest I hate singles You know as like an artist We put together this piece of work Where it's like listen to front to back You'll get the right emotions

It's gonna take you through like a story source trust us bro yeah source trust us bro it's not like a concept record or anything but you know you know like you write an album and it's like it's meant to be listened to certain way but you have to release songs to hype it up and then people get the record they skip the songs they already know and you're like no there's a story they don't matter now you guys put in so much fucking time

into like a like the like the whole piece and then and metal community is weird because like music industry wants you to not do albums music industry loves singles. They love statistics. But they also want you to wait for the vinyl. They want you to wait for the vinyl. But that's the metal. You're fucking mind. Metal community is still

obsessed with full length records. Like we did the EPs. We're like, yeah, we're going to get fucking stats. We're going to get numbers. We're going to improve our game, you know? Sure. And people are like, well, where's the full length? I'm like, nobody listens to full wings. They're like, yes, we do. We're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Fine, we'll do a full length. And now

people are going to be like, oh, I only listen to singles. well I think they just want me to be confused and that that writes great music unfortunately you know let's just keep them confused forever confusion's something Confusion's good you know keep them talking what are they doing

why they put two songs with the same name out Oh no All right any Anything I missed any closing thoughts that you want out there about about Kane Hill about your story about the records Man I can't think of anything off the top of my head We ended up chatting real well.

Yeah, we covered a lot. Talked about some good stuff. Mm-hmm. And just, you know, general, please listen to our record. You asked us all the stuff you wanted to ask us. Yeah. You're easy to talk to, boss. Yeah, we're going to be a little late for load in, but we'll be fine.

I can easily talk on another 30 minutes, but I know you guys got loaded in. So, all right, so no closing dots. No, we're good. Check out the record, November 1st. And the name is? A piece of me. never let you find in all lowercase with a period i saw all the lowercase very very cool can't hill i really appreciate your time uh thank you for doing the

tour no thank you for having us thank you for having us on a tour in the past and the podcast and the present like this has been fun garsie cool man well you got you guys been fun thank you guys for being sick all right everyone that's it can't hill later thank you