Garza Podcast - 146 - INTERNAL BLEEDING | Chris Pervelis: Long Island Death Metal & Inventing Slam

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with Chris Pervelis. Guitar Player & founder of death metal band INTERNAL BLEEDING. https://internal-bleeding.com SPONSORS: https://imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB CHAPTERS: 0:00 - Official Formation of Internal Bleeding, Finding the Right Members and Sound 06:08 - Crazy Writing Schedule & Going to Clubs 09:14 - Inventing the “Slam” Genre in 1991 14:56 - Being Influenced by 70s Music, Tony Iommi, Blues Music 15:50 - Slam Dancing, Circle Jerks 17:00 - Being Compared to Suffocation 19:38 - The New York/Long Island Death Metal Sound 24:38 - Skinless 26:12 - Influencing Death Metal Bands 28:01 - Not Getting Credit For Influencing/Helping 32:35 - Slipknot, Hatebreed Showing Respect 34:13 - Influencing Deathcore Genre, Inspired by Hip-Hop 35:44 - Eric B. & Rakim, Follow the Leader, 1988 38:58 - Making Taylor Dayne Cry in the Studio 41:10 - Differences Between 90s Death Metal Scene to Present 44:17 - Getting Hate Mail Back in the Day, Dealing with Haters 48:24 - Being a Moody Artist 49:24 - Being of Greek Descent, Family History 53:40 - What His Kids Think About Internal Bleeding’s Music 55:00 - R.I.P. Drummer Bill Tolley, New York Firefighter, Helping People on 9/11 1:02:46 - Mortal Decay 1:04:03 - John Gallagher & Dying Fetus 1:08:18 - Why Internal Bleeding and Dying Fetus Have Not Toured Together, Chris’ Mother Criticizing Dying Fetus’ Name 1:10:28 - What Chris’ Parents Thought of IB’s Music 1:13:30 - Being Competitive 1:19:18 - Chris’ Mother Was Intense 1:21:30 - Having a Great Relationship, Being There For Your Partner 1:24:44 - TheMetalGentleman.com 1:28:05 - The Zodiac Killer 1:29:30 - Reflecting on Past Decades, How People Will Think of Today’s Music in the Future 1:31:38 - How Internal Bleeding’s 2024 World Tour Came Together, Bucket List Destinations 1:33:44 - New Album, Settle All Scores, Inspired by Betrayal and Revenge 1:35:10 - Playing with All Shall Perish on Upcoming Shows

One last time you did a stage dive? Oh, Jesus. I think like 95 or 6 was my last stage dive. 95, 96 was the last stage dive. Yeah. Fuck, yeah, dude. I forgot when mine was. I forgot.

I used to do it a lot, too. You know, like in the 80s and stuff, like at Black Flag Shows and stuff, I'd be flying all over the place. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. Well, Chris of internal bleeding, I am honored to have you here in person. Yeah, man. I'm glad to be here.

You are awesome. Thanks, man. Cheers. Cheers. So do we sip this, right? Yeah, it's a sipping whiskey. Enjoy it. Yes, I will.

Thank you. Because we're growing up. That's right. Well, I'm grown up. Mm-hmm. How do you, Chris? 56. Wow.

And the band formed in 91, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it wasn't really a band in 91. It was me. I don't even remember the names. This guy named Tom, who played bass, this guy named Brian, who sang, a guy named Mike, who played drums, and me. So we had, like, this band together, and we had, I had a couple of songs that I thought were brewing, but, like, how do I explain this? Like, I knew what I wanted to do, but I needed people around me who could fill in the pieces that I,

I knew was missing that I didn't have. So I fired all these guys. You fired him? Oh, yeah. Not brutally. I just said it's, you know, it's not working out or whatever. It's just not brutal, huh? Yeah, okay.

I was kidding. Everybody, actually, everybody was cool when I said it, you know, it's just not working for me and there's no chemistry between all us. So like I said, we had, probably I had two songs written. So, and then I fell apart. And then I recruited what would be, I guess, the first like official lineup that people know because the all those guys Brian and Mark and we never took photos or anything like that that so that never really existed in documented

photos or whatever you know so and then then after I got rid of them then we got the first I got the first lineup together of people who complimented me and made me grow as a musician and really helped me find my voice, I guess, my musical voice. Where I was going, I just, like, I knew where I was going. And I needed guys to, I guess, guide me in a way. I don't know how to describe it. Like, I was looking for pieces that I knew I couldn't provide, but I knew what I wanted, like, in the back of my head,

I knew what I wanted, but I couldn't provide it. And I needed people to do it. and they did it and they came and they're like you know I'd play a riff and then you know the drummer won't billy may rest in peace he'd be like I'd play a riff and he'd be like yeah and I'll put a beat behind it like this and I'm like that's what was missing I didn't hear the drum beat in my head I only heard the guitar and you put the beat that I want yeah you put the groovy hip hoppy kind of groovy you know hooky beat behind it and that's what I was that's what I was missing you know in my head I was like I I

I was like, okay, the riff is cool, but, you know, so that's how it. You had, so you had the sound in your head. Kind of. And you're trying to get it out. Yeah. But did you consciously, because, I mean, do you consciously say, hey, I have these witnesses. I have a sound. How do I make?

No, I don't think it was, I think it was completely organic and by accident. Like, I didn't sit down and say, this is what I need to do. It just kind of, I don't know, like an invisible hand kind of pushed it in, in the direction it needed to go. whether that was in the back of my head and I never knew it consciously you know what I'm saying yeah were you like chasing like the sound like you like felt something right exactly like felt something right I felt something and and when I got Billy and Anthony Billy and Anthony especially Bill Bill Talley and Anthony Mayola those were like the main two guys that we started

jamming together when we started like the first day I showed him the rift to the the song Invocation of Evil, the opening riff and all that stuff. And Billy launched into it and Anthony watched why I was playing and he launched into it. Something happened. Something happened. Yeah. And I think Billy, I think Billy was the glue that made it, that made it happen. And Anthony and Billy clicked, I clicked with Billy, I clicked with Anthony and all of a sudden we had something.

We knew after our first practice together that we had something because like we just, I think our first practice was probably like nine hours because we were doing. trading riffs back and forth and ideas and and and and and having having discussions like actual discussions what you know we all knew we had something now we got it we got we got to get a bass player in we got to get a vocalist i knew a vocalist from my old band he'll come in and he'll do it he's really good this and that it was just really exciting you know and um and it just before and along we had uh this guy named john kaluko playing bass great guy i see him every time we go on tour i see him out in arizona he comes out to the shows sick and um eric wigger on vocals and he's a great guy great tattoo artist and um i haven't spoken

to him in many years but um i say hi to him through third party friends and he says hi to me through third party friends so we're we're still friends third party yeah so that was the first lineup and it just it just clicked we had so much fun practicing and writing and and well you had you had to click you're jamming for nine hours yeah yeah that first one and and we did we we had a great our practice The schedule was a... Yeah, what was the schedule? The schedule was, I'll tell you what it was, because it's like burned in my mind.

It was Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday. That's sick. But that's what we wanted to do. You know what I'm saying? That's like everybody got off work, we went to our studio. And then Friday night, we all jam and then go out to a club called like industry or something like that and go out and try to meet girls or whatever. Get drunk.

And then sometimes even, even go back and write again. After, going out? Yeah. I never heard it. Three o'clock in the morning or so. Oh yeah. Some of our best songs were written completely wasted in the studio, me.

Are you serious? Yeah. Oh yeah. They mentioned that like some, like you get more creative when it's like the crazy morning hours, you know. I can remember, I can remember writing the album Driven to Conquer. And Guy Marchet from Suffocation. suffocation, he used to play in suffocation. He was in our band before suffocation.

Him and I came back from this club industry, and I don't even know how I drove back. Yeah. So I don't even know. I get it. Right, I don't even know how I drove back. And I can remember Guy and I writing the song falling down, literally like plastered in like 25 minutes.

What? At like 3.30 in the morning, just me and him sitting. is like a guy is like a unbelievably talented musician and I was humming you know I'm nowhere near as good as he is and I was I wasn't picking up my guitar I riffs in my head and I'd hum him and he'd play him and then he's like oh no dude let's do this and let's do and next thing you know we had a whole song next practice uh you know Billy came down and Brian Hobby who was playing bass came down we showed it to him we're like holy shit the song rules lightning in a bottle at three o'clock in the morning.

I'm lying in a bottle after the club. Yeah, after the club. Dude, after the club, even when I'm young, I'm going to bed. Dude, I'm a pussy. I need to step up, man. Dude, New York, you guys were just built different, man. No, New York in the 90s, things didn't even start until, it's weird because it doesn't exist anymore because now everybody goes to bed.

But New York in the 90s, shit didn't start happening until 11 o'clock at night, 12 o'clock at night. You didn't go out until 11 o'clock at night. Whoa. Yeah. That's when, that's when in California, that's when you're getting home. Right. Yeah, because like, I remember when we go on, I remember when we go play shows and stuff and it'd be like, well, they have a curfew at 11 o'clock. I'm like, it's Saturday. I'll close, bars close at midnight. What? What kind of glue are you sniffing? Yeah, playing shows, you guys were probably like, what the hell is? Yeah, we were like, we were like, this is weird what are we going to do now the show's over it's 1130 at night it's like we're supposed we can go out right now yeah this is like the time to go out yeah yeah well so chris there's a

so there's a famous conversation that you and the band had i say night night 91 like when when the word slam first came up right right right how did that conversation go okay so um makes me a little sad because I think of Billy. We used to practice in a place in a town called Huntington. And we finished practice and we went out for hamburgers to like this diner. And we're sitting around talking. We're like, you know, so I'm, I'm a marketing guy. I, at the time, I was a creative director in an ad agency.

Like, that's what I do. Yeah, because you got out of school in 90, then you went, you got the job at 93, correct? Is that a... No, I got my job out. My first job, I was working at an ad agency by 92. Okay. So I was an assistant creative director. So I would write, you know, I'd write copy and design print ads and stuff for corporate

clients and all that. So I was talking about marketing the band and what we should do. And we were using the word mosh, right? You know, we used it a lot. We would say barbaric moshing, death vomit, this, that, all that. Sure. Because that's, we, that's our music. We stripped away, you know, most of the blast beats.

We stripped away a lot of the speed. And we said every song has to be groovy all the time. Nonstop, even the fast parts, your head has to go like this. We're not going to play, you know, no ping pong. I love your jokes. Like, it's like you don't want the song to sound like a fucking ping pong machine. Right. Like you're stuck in a ping pong machine.

Right. It's funny. Like, I don't know why but I got it. It was like, that's just, it's funny. Yeah, no, I don't want, we didn't want that. Listen, I have nothing against it, but that's not we wanted. I'm wondering, all the time, nonstop, just no wasted, no wasted space. No filler, no wasted space groove constantly.

So anyway, we're talking about Mosh and Billy got mad and he's like, you know what? I can't stand anthrax. And they use the word Mosh and it's like a joke. And we can't. fucking slam band. That's what we do. And that's, that's, that's where it was born. I was like, holy shit, that's right. I'm like, that's a fucking, that's a hardcore term. Yeah. You know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, Mosh, everybody said fucking slam. You know, I'm like, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Slam dance. You know, it got cut. It was slam dance, but it got cut to slam,

you know? And I was like, oh, Billy, that's brilliant. Let's do that. So Billy came up with it and we're like a full steam. head that's that's it we're slam and and and then from now then on I mean I think you pulled up an ad yeah yeah yeah we had we had the actual flyer that that that right so that's that that that was everything said slam slam this slam that's blah blah blah fucking slam dude right when was this flyer mate that was uh like that was like that's for perpetual degradation so that's probably a flyer from 93 wow late 93 middle 93 uh no that's actually 94 because the thing came out so that's that's from 94 so you know people say you know

talk about oh this good band invented slam blah blah I'm like whatever dude I'm like as we call internal bleeding was calling it slam before anybody even thought of the word to use as applied to death metal sure you know I'm not saying we invented some kind of great thing you know but but we came up with the term we pushed the term there's also a band called the demonessy in New Jersey that used the term but they didn't they didn't push it as hard as us I I guess we were more aggressive as far as pushing that word into people's faces. That New York aggression. Right.

And just constantly doing it. You know, and it didn't turn into with, it never caught, I don't think it ever caught on until like, then I started noticing, I don't know, five years later, people started using the word slam. And I was like, hey, wait a minute. That's our word. You know, it was funny. It was really, it was really funny. And, I mean, my vision.

of Slam is not what Slam is considered today. So. Hmm. Yeah, because now it's a whole other. It's a whole, it's a whole other. It's a whole thing. Right. It's a whole thing and it has nothing to do with what I think Slam is. Hmm.

So, uh, and that's no slight, that's no slight. That's just not, that's not my vision. Yeah. You know, that's not, that wasn't the band's vision is that, you know, the, Speedy blast, stop, riff. Speedy blast, stop, riff. You know, that's not our vision. Our vision was constant flow and constant hooky riff changes

that, you know, of course we had parts where you stop and there's the big slam riff and all that stuff, of course. But it's the grooves that get people. That's what gets people moving is the grooves. It's not, I mean, people get into the slam riffs, of course, but it's that constant groove. You can't sit there. It's like, yeah, it just awakens something.

You like have to move. It's super primal, you know? And, you know, people who call it simplistic, and that's fine. I don't mind that term. It is. But Black Sabbath was primal too, and they're my favorite band. And, you know, their riffs rule pretty much over everybody. So.

Yeah, Tony. If I'm chasing I owe me, which I am, I think I'm a pretty good company. a good company. Yeah. So I'm not, like I don't chase, I don't chase shredders. I don't,

you know, all our guitar solos are bluesy guitar solos because that's what I like. And I'm an old man, you know, and that's what I grew up, you know, I grew up in the 70s.

So that's what I, that's what I cut my teeth on musically. Yeah. So that's what I like. You know, I'm a pentatonic guy. And, um,

that's my, that's my zone. I love it. I love old blues musicians. I love all that stuff. And, I like it. I get a lot of compliments, and I'm happy about it.

I get a lot of compliments from people saying, wow, the solo and, you know, the solo in focus is awesome. It's like a rock and roll solo. And I'm like, thanks, man. I'm like, yeah, because that's what it should be. At least that's how I think. You know, if I put a shreddy solo over it, the emotion would be sucked out of it.

Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned Black Flag. And was the term slammed? dancing a term in the 80s? Oh, yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah. And even, I remember, I got a, I don't have it anymore because, but I had a great

circle jerks t-shirt where, you know, it's this drawing of a guy and all flannel and all this and he's like, he's in the typical slam dance pose, like almost like the DRI pose. Yeah, yeah. That's how you, that's how you did it back then. Yeah, like that, right? Yeah, yeah. So I had that t-shirt, you know, when I was a kid. Sick.

Yeah. And that's pretty much what I look like except for the blonde hair. Is that you? It could be. I always had, I always. Is that a real shirt, you think? Dude to slam?

That I don't know, but that's what they called it. That's what they called it back then. It was slam dancing. Slam dancing, poe going. There was also poe going where you'd like just go up and down and, you know. Yeah, because when you guys were coming up around that time, like it wasn't even like a genre yet and uh death mental is this it was kind of opposite of the groove like it seems like you just really trusted like the vision hey yeah yeah all grew all grew all grew all

all the time you know i will say one thing that really annoys me okay is that we got compared to suffocation a lot and i love those guys they're like some of my best friends we did see sound nothing like suffocation. We're nowhere near as technically proficient. The only thing people call the suffocation is because we had that, you know, suffocation at leisure of inviracity, which is an amazing riff, you know, chun, chun, jun, j, j, j, j, j, j, j, j, j, j. And our entire philosophy, I guess you could say is like it's, that's what we should be doing

and get rid of all the other bull crap. Yeah. You know? But it wasn't like we were trying to, that it's it just happened to be you know we happened to be but like early in the early on people were like oh this is just another suffocation clone I'm like people are saying that yeah I'm like what the beep are you talking about you don't know what the beep you're talking about yeah it's just like I'm like this a laziest fucking

comparison ever you know people people do that they out that was actually one of my questions I have for you was like what are your thoughts on suffocation and more specifically that first record because it's just I love it. I think it's a, you know, I can't deny that it's a powerful record. You know, I don't deny it. It's a powerful record and certainly had influence on me. It's not my favorite suffocation record. It's certainly influential and powerful, but it's not my favorite. I think there's part, there's a lot. I think there's a lot of that album that kind of just meanders. But that's their sound.

But that's their sound. That the technical, you know, Mike Smith freaking playing like a maniac and Terrence and Doug Serrito just going crazy, you know? We don't have any of that. But I appreciate it. I love it, you know? Yeah. And all the, that all the, what do I call it?

I call it the bootabuta, bootabita beat. You know, that really fast ride and a high snare, which we never do. But I love when they get into a groove with that. because that's like super punky but sped up yeah you know yeah i was i was gonna ask punk on steroids but i was gonna ask you well is there but i guess from when you're not in new york it's there the scene it sounds like there's like a new york sound where there's a hundred percent new york sign there's absolutely a new york sound okay you know um suffolte has a new york sound uh you know so but it's weird right so like you have suffocation you have osse you have pirexia

You have malignancy, you have all these bands in New York area that all rule, but the New York sound, I guess, when people think the New York sound, they think of us, pirexia and suffol, which is like the heavy kind of overbearing heavy sound. You know, it's not mortician, which is from New York. It's not malignancy who's unbelievably technical and wild. You know, they're a wild band.

They're unbelievable. great guys, unbelievable band. I love them to death. But I don't know if they get considered part of the New York sound because they're so wildly different than, you know what I'm saying? I think people think the New York sound is like us and Suffo and like Pyrexia and some of the other bands that maybe some people don't know, you know, like afterbirth, necrosis.

You know, I think that, like, I think the New York sound is people say that. And I take it as it's the Long Island. Sound. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Because all those bands are from Long Island. Yeah.

Which, you know, as part of New York, but they're all, you know, afterbirth and and pyrexia and us and all. We're all from Long Island. We're all Long Island people. And we all, I think we all picked up on certain street sensibilities and stuff like that that isn't available to a musician in, you know, Champaign, Illinois. And that helps carve the sound as well. You know, I just don't think, you know, the hustle and bustle of New York and the craziness and the stress and the traffic and the, I think that all adds up into some kind of thing.

Of course. You know? Of course. It adds up to some form of aggression. Yeah. It's a thing. Whatever it is that, you know, I can't explain it. I'm not a psychologist and all that stuff.

Actually, there's a book about it. I remember this woman, I want to say her name was Donna Gaines. I remember her writing a book about like death metal in New York, long time ago in the 90s. She was a doctor, yeah. I met her at a pyrexia practice. And I remember she was writing a book, and I swear her name is Dr. Donna Gaines, G-A-I-N-E-S. I don't even remember.

Do you find something up there? We've got to find it. I think that's her. Listen, this is like going on. 30 years ago, so my memory might be hazy. Maybe it's that. Maybe she was writing that, you know? But is this her, though?

I can't remember. I just remember her name was Donna Gaines. Donna Gaines. And she was very interested. She was very interested in death metal. Okay. That's probably her. Okay.

Maybe the book she wrote fell apart and she didn't do it, but I remember her interviewing. And this, this money came out in the 90s. It would have, yeah. We got to find this. dude maybe a metal yeah metal book i don't know is that it no that's the remone's fuck maybe it ended up in miss fist manifesto i got i got i got i got to ask oh there look that teenage wasteland suburbia is dead in that's a picture of pyrexia right on the cover is that it are you serious yeah oh shit

there's darrell chris guy wow yeah so i wasn't losing my mind and going senile i knew she was writing a book i'm very impressed with that with that memory Yeah, I remember talking to her, and she was really nice, and she was asking me these really interesting questions about the music. What did she ask me? And why. Why? Right.

She wanted to know why. She was like, it was constantly why, why? And then she was trying to synthesize the craziness of New York into the music and why it's, like she was trying to put it all together, why New York, why these bands sound like this. and from what I got from her asking me questions. Hmm. So. I never read the book.

I just remember she was writing it. Wow. Well, it sounds that. What year does it say it came out? 93, 4? Let's see. We're trying to find some days right now. Good old 98?

Oh, it came out in 98. This was way before that. April 28, 1998. Oh, the day after my birthday. Is it? Yeah, April 27th. 27th. That's pretty cool.

I can't believe I remembered that. It's so neat that I remembered that. It's pretty close to 40. Oh, yeah. Too bad I don't smoke any of that stuff. I was going to ask you, what do you think of skinless? Whenever I need music gear,

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I like them so much that we have Sherwood Weber doing guest vocals. on our next album. Really? Oh, yeah. I love them. Fuck.

Great band. Great band. Great guys. Love playing with them. I mean, me and Cher would have been buddies forever, and he's just, and me and Noah, Noah and I talk a lot because we're huge Sabbath fans. So we talk a lot and, oh, God, I love him. Noah is like the riffmaster, dude.

Oh, yeah, dude. A bit of death metal to me. Yeah, he's great. We're playing with them in, we're playing a, I saw that. We're playing a festival in England. next year, next summer. We're headlining one night and Skinless is headlight lining the other night. And the promoter's going to take us to like the Black Sabbath house from the first album

and to Birmingham. So no one and I can geek out on Black Sabbath stuff. So I'm like, I'm so excited. I'm going to cross the, you know, sit on the Black Sabbath bench and, whoa. Oh, yeah, I'm going to lose it. I'm going to completely lose it. That's great. So this is the show.

Yeah. Ophal Fest, right. 25th, 26, 27th, Manchester. Right. That's dope, man. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. It's cool to hear that you guys are friends. And I didn't understand, to be honest, Chris,

I didn't really understand the importance of internal bleeding because I was, we're talking earlier. Like, I'm a, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a 90's kid. Right, right, yeah. So I got, so my introduction to like groove in death metal was skinless. And I pretty much, I was. I went from corn to skinless. Right. And I found skinless.

I'm like, and they have a, which I don't know about coined this term or not, but I was like, oh, it's like a New York downbeat that the way they like. Yes, yeah, sure.

And then I was listening to all. Downbeat's a good word. Yes. And I was listening to all your records. Oh, shit, that's, Skinless probably, Noah probably got it from.

Oh, yeah, they did. Yeah. Sherwood says that all the time to me. Wow. It wasn't for you guys. And I can remember, like I remember Sherwood being a,

you know, a 16 year old kid going to our shows. Really? Yeah, before Skinless existed. We used to play up in Albany all the time where Sherwood lived. He would be at shows. He was a fucking maniac. What were the Beny's out there? We used to play a place called the QE2 a lot.

That's an interesting name. It's got another name now. I just don't remember it. And that was a cool place because you played. So it was like there was a giant like pit area. And then there was like a balcony. And you played up on the balcony like on the balcony like on the second. second floor and the audience was on the first floor.

Oh, that sounds terrible. That was great. It was great. When people start flying off, getting up the balcony and flying off the balcony, no, it's awesome. Oh, sick. Okay. Well, those shows were great.

Those shows were great and the camaraderie was great and we had, we had such, so much fun playing up there. I was curious, so it's good, it's good a band, like, it's good to hear that band, like, gave you your flowers early on because it's, this, I'm not sure if it happened to you, So correct me if I'm wrong or tell me what happened to you. Sometimes, like, bands come up and they take the sound and they don't give you any credit. Did that happen with any? I am sure.

I know what's happened. And I'd rather not talk about it. Sure. Yeah. It took my ego. All right. So, so I am like, I am a, I'm so competitive. Same.

Okay. Like, I'm like, you know, I own my own business. this, that, the other thing. I'm super competitive. And I guess my ego gets bruised easily. And I'll be completely honest. And, you know, I don't, you know, there are some bands that I think owe us a lot and don't. Sure.

And it upsets me. I don't know if it's my ego, but more than I'm wounded. Like, I feel like a wounded bird because I was like, I was like, oh my God, I went out of my way back. the day to get you shows and help you and this and nothing and um i should let it go though like like like as a businessman that's in the past and and and and so be it and i understand bands have professional commitments and management this and that telling them what to do yeah so so my head understands it logically my heart and my ego i guess hurt you know a little bit yeah i was curious i mean you touch on it I mean, there's only a few people on the planet.

I could connect this, connect with this kind of subject. I'm like, yeah, what is that? It's not ego. It's just like. I think part of it is ego. And I don't think I have a huge ego. Maybe I do. I know there's people who hate me and think I have a huge ego.

There's a couple. There's a couple of people. But I don't think I do. I try to stay humble as fuck. You know, I wouldn't be doing this for so long if I didn't love it. But, you know, part of my ego's hurt. Like, I'm just, I feel like, sometimes I feel like a wounded animal. And sometimes I feel like I want to just stop doing it because I'm sick of being abused.

You know, I know. Sometimes, not all the time, but, you know, I get in those, I get in those periods. Like, you know. I feel you. Yeah, there's a, yeah, I know, I know that feeling. I'm like, should I just drop this? There is like a, you know, there's, obviously, we're in a very similar boat. Where, you know, there's like those couple of bands like kind of just took the sound.

which is cool. You're like, oh, fuck yeah. But then, dude, like, you know, I'm 38. And so we are both older. So when the time passes and still nothing, this happened to me two years ago, actually. And I had a conversation with said band, which we're actually cool with.

I think you could be cool with the bands. Yeah, even if you have harbors some kind of, I don't know if it's resentment, whatever. You know what I'm saying. Sure. You understand, obviously. Yeah, yeah. You're like, okay.

And then I realized, okay, like, it's never going to be public and that's fine. And then I just, I just dropped it. I dropped it. And then now, now we're friends. It's just kind of, but there is like this weird thing in the back of my head. It's like, this is something you never talk about. Yeah. I always wonder like why some bands do that, you know?

Because where we're coming out, we talked about every band that we ripped off. Right. You know, I ripped off skinless. I ripped off corn. I ripped off this band. You know, it says, right. But so when someone else, doesn't do that.

You know, it's like when you were coming up, I assume you were talking about the bands that met the most to you. Yeah, of course. Because go, oh, this is, this inspired me. So this is where, so when it doesn't get brought back, it hits the ego and then with age, I learned just, just drop it. Yeah, you got to let it go.

You got to let it go. And, you know what? I think, I think a lot of times, ignorance isn't the right word. Mm-hmm. A lot of times it's not, It's just sometimes not on somebody's radar. That's who.

You know what I'm saying? It's not on somebody, you know, he knows all the influence. Hey, you found the QE too. Is that it? Yeah, that's it. That looks like shit. I think. I think that's it.

In Albany, New York. Yeah, that's it. Wow. It's something else. Anyway, I think a lot of it is, I think a lot of it is actually innocent. And like, oh, like, oh, like. It could be. I wonder if you fucking brought it up.

They'd be like, oh, my God, I didn't even think of that. I'm sorry. You know, I'm not that I would do it, but. But then, so the flip side of that is there's huge bands who have paid us back. I mean, I got to play Notfest. That's huge to me. That's sick.

To me, that's huge, right? Okay, you know, and we're up, you know, I'm sitting in the back room at Notfest and, you know, I'm around all these guys who are like in huge bands, you know. I'm like, you know, some mid-level death metal. middle schlub, you know, and here I am at fucking Knottfest, you know, there's Ghost Face Killer. Yeah, yeah. And Mick from Slipknot comes up to me,

and he pulls out his phone. He's like, showing me all the internal bleeding albums. He's like, I grew up on you. He's like, he's like, huge part of Slipknot. Are you serious? Yeah. He doesn't talk to anybody. Yeah. Wow.

He just showing me all our albums. He's like, he's like, ah, you guys, in Malaysian. He's like, you guys are so good, you know? And dude, I mean, they, they, They wanted us on Knott Fest. I mean, how cool is that? As like, you can say what you want about Slipknot, whatever, but like, that's great.

They took, and they paid for everything, you know? It was great. You know, Hayprey took us out for three shows. You know, I'm sitting talking to Jostis. Like, oh, you remember playing at the Hamilton House together? And blah, he said, oh, I love IBM. So we were playing together. They paid it back.

You got to pay it back, man. I thought that was great. If I ever got to be that. big, I would like be dragging, I tell, I tell the guys in mortal decay that they have to get together and I will force them to play, you know, I'll take all the obscure death metal bands that I love, make them get back together or whatever and play. No matter who hates them or whatever, I'll get to see them. So, you know.

Yeah. Are you aware, I mean, you're probably aware of like, like, a death core genre, you know, and so obviously, that multi, multi, multigenerational humans have, you know, been influenced by your band. And,

uh, I didn't realize, Chris, that how much influence the New York, the Long Island sound of internal bleeding, uh,

really inspired like the California of becoming of the death court, uh, scene. I really didn't understand it until I really dove into your records. Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, I, again, I heard that fucking downbeat. I was like, how did I not know this? Like, I don't understand, like, the influence, like, you've had on myself and suicide silence and the whole death core genre, that's a whole other thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's gone off and still going off. It's pretty fucking incredible, man.

Yeah, and there's a lot of, in what we do, especially, more so than other bands, we have a lot of hip-hop in our music, especially lyric. We put lyrics on the upbeat and stuff like that, like, like hip hoppers do instead of instead of following the down before four cadence kind of thing, you know, we'll put stuff on the upbeat, like, you know. Did you, did you get that from Eric B and? And Rock Kim. Yeah.

Absolutely. Interesting. Did you read his book? No. And you know what? I think, I think, uh, Rock Kim's, his flow is just like. He's, uh, he's regarded, which I learned from his book, like, I guess he's like the goat goats where like all the hip-hop artists go hey that he's actually the guy his flow is his flow is just

king his flow is king and he's got such a beautiful voice my favorites those are like that is probably my I love public enemy too um but like Eric B and Rakeem is like oh my god it's so hard when when when when were you jamming him oh god what like what what year or era Follow the leader era Hmm What Uh I don't know

I don't know what year that Yeah It's 90 something probably Yeah Jay can we type in Pull up the record Follow leader by them See what what year that That came out

80 So 88 I thought it was I didn't know that I mean Holy shit Oh my God The flow is so good

It's just like Oh my God It's so good It's good Follow it I wonder at corn Stole that fucking I'm entitled

Yeah maybe I don't know It's just It's really good. It's really, it's just such a great. He's so good. The video's great too. What a goat, dude.

Yeah, he's the goat. He's the goat. He's the man. I'd love to meet him. Wow. But could you say you met Eric B or you were around him? Eric B. So you were mixing a record.

Oh, right, right? Yeah, okay. So you know this story, right? So I'm like, it must have been like three o'clock in the morning. You went three o'clock in a morning. You work. And we're mixing our second album The Extinction of Benevolence

and you know how you get that like when somebody's behind you and you get the hairs get up on your back and the back of your neck Yeah you feel like the fucking energy Right right so I'm like I'm like Oh fuck somebody's behind me I turn around to Eric B I'm like

I'm going to go back look at it It's like yo bro that shit's deep Just walked away And I was like That's it That's it That is it That is it

What was he doing there? I have no idea. Where'd they from? I think Queens? I don't even know. How far as Queens from where you were? 25 minutes. Oh, it's not bad.

With no traffic. With no traffic. I think Queens. I'm not sure they could be from the city. From Manhattan. It freaked me out. I was like, how to put my jaw back up, you know,

from being on the mixing console. What were you thinking when he left? I wasn't. You weren't. I was just like, wow. And that, what was the engineer? His name was Nick, I think. And he's like, what's up?

And I'm like, do you know how that is? And he's like, no. I'm like, what? You're fired. Joking around. And I didn't tell him who it was. I was just like, wow, that is fucking awesome. That's like almost as good as our old.

old vocalist making Taylor Dane cry. Really? Oh, yeah. What happened? Oh, God. When we were, when we were looking for studios to do our first record, I guess Taylor Dane was in the studio too and like all the studio intercoms were on. Frank, Frank Greenie was like just making fun of her. And we didn't know who she was.

He's like, look at this fucking blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. Because she had bodyguards and stuff. Who is this? And blah, she's leaving. And she's, like, all upset and crying. And one of her bodyguards comes up to Frank. Or was it me and goes, it gives us a fist bump.

Because we got her upset. Wow. It was pretty freaking funny. I could only imagine you guys as being New Yorkers' spot on Intercom. You know, I mean, we're like, we are the, and one of the things I love about being in this band and the people that have always been in this band is everybody's got a thick skin

and we are so mean to each other. Fuck, yeah, I love that. We are so, like, ruthlessly mean. Like, our drummer, Kyle, like, today, like, Kyle is known for, like, he's a laid-back guy. Yeah. And he takes his time with doing things and it's just like, he was taking a shower this morning

and we're like, we got the box, God, there's a couple podcast. You got five minutes to get out of the shower. Two seconds later, two minutes. to get out of the fucking shower, you lazy piece of shit, you know? Yeah, yeah. He's like, shut up. Fuck you, hurry up, you got one minute.

Yeah. There's not, yeah. We're really mean to each other. We insult the shit out of each other. We have to. But that's what friends do. Yeah. That's what friends should do.

Yeah. There's like, yeah, there's something like, that's part of one of the main purposes of even being in the band is like to talk shit on each other. When they're to their faith, when they're not around, it's just fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. So it's a riot to just, just, just,

just you know and our other guitar is Chris McCarthy he's a fucking comedian like his one-liners are just he'll he'll like we'll crash a van because he'll come up with some one-liner and it's just like I'll be like laugh so hard and you know we're so mean to each other it's great hmm quick question Chris uh you uh so you have lived it like what's the big difference you notice with the death mental scene in the early 90s to to now Oh, God. Everybody asks me this question. What is the difference?

I think the biggest difference in my view is the, how do I explain this? The difference between instant gratification and having to wait for gratification. And I'll explain it like this. Back in the early 90s, you had to write letters. You had to, in the underground, you'd get, you know, you'd get an envelope full of ads. Or shit. Or shit, right? I've gotten shit.

I've actually gotten shit sent to me. You get an envelope full of ads. You're like, wow, this band looks cool. Wow, this band looks cool. Start writing letters. But you have to wait. Yeah. You send out your five bucks for the demo or whatever, and you have to wait.

You can't have it right now. You can't click play on YouTube. You can't go to Spotify. And you got to fucking wait. And then you get it. and it's like Christmas. You're like, yes, I got this. They sent it to me.

And it's like all of a sudden you're just like, that, that's gone, that having the weight and that tension of waiting and now everything is just, you know, oh, I heard about this band, you know, whatever, fart duster. Let me go to pull it up, dude. Right, pull it up, pull it up, right? I don't think it's a real band, I just made it up.

But you know what I'm saying? It's like, fart duster. It's a great one, man. Yeah, right. So I'm like, you know, but you can go right to Spotify or band camp and find it. Yeah. But, you know, you go to which back then, you go to a show and you hear people talk about fart duster. And you're like, wow, how do I, how do I get their music?

What do I do? You have to ask a friend. You have to get a flyer so you can get a mailing address to write. And hopefully somebody writes back. And then you get a letter back that says, you know, thanks for your interest. Here's the demo, blah, blah, blah, you know, cheers, Bob from Fart Duster. And then you have a letter.

And it's like, wow, that's cool. I'm going to write him back and see if he writes me back. And then he writes you back. And then all of a sudden, you have a friend. Have you saved any of these letters? Yeah, I have some left. I wish I saved more, but like, I wish I saved a lot of stuff.

But a lot of stuff had to go because I've moved a lot. And, you know, I still have a lot of cassette tapes saved. But I've saved a few. letters that are special to people that, excuse me, that are people that are like special to me still, like I still talk to them and we're still friends and stuff like that. And I always kept their letters. So I guess for sentimentality or whatever, you know, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. You know. Can you, uh, just like curiosity because I personally, I never experienced this. So when your, when your band came out, it wasn't exactly, it took a while for it to a click.

with the outside world outside of uh long island and uh new york more more more more specifically so when you're so we're talking letters right so when someone someone sends you a letter and i assume it says your band sucks and there's literally shit in the letter i've gotten that what is that like what i don't know are you like you open it up you're like wow and you just you throw it away what's like to no i bring it to band practice and show up good by i'm like this is fucking awesome somebody actually took the time I'm like we're we're living we're living rent free that is not us that's a band from Italy oh sick um anyway uh you fucking brought it I brought it to band Pratt that's fucking great I'm like we're

we're living unless it's a bootleg demo 1993 that is not our logo that's got to be an Italian band yeah yeah yeah I remember I remember I remember writing them being like Uh, no. And then you, you sent your shit in that letter, correct? No, I didn't. Oh, you should have. No, I got more gratification that somebody got so upset that they had to write a letter with shit in it. I was like, wow.

This person has no life. Zero that he got so upset about our music and it was full of, the letter was full of like, what is saying? Short hair, hardcore pieces of shit. get out of the metal scene, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, this is great. We're doing something right. Wow.

I've got more than one letter with shit in it. More than one? Fucking for sure. What are people doing back then? Shitting in letters? I'm not even going to contemplate what or how they did it. Dude, that's this. Oh, it's hilarious.

I just think it's great. And then I got weird stuff, you know? I've gotten underwear like girls underwear bras also it's like it's like a it's like you get you get the highs of the highs and lows of the lows yeah I'm like a panties and shit why is somebody who's has no idea who I am sending me a fucking bra I'm like all right threw it in a box that's sick yeah you get the brawl the top of the top and you get the You get the human shit. You get the shit.

Wow. That's literally a good, that's a good analogy of like life. Oh yeah. You know like. Highs and lows, brother. Highs and lows. Oh, I mean, it just, a lot of that. I remember at Milwaukee Meadowfest, this one guy faked me out really good.

He's like, he's like, you're, holy shit, you're in eternal bleeding. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, you guys fucking suck. And I was like, I was like, cool. Yeah. I was like, all right. Suck your mother's cock, cock last night or whatever, you know. Sure.

I said some kind of insulting thing back at him or whatever. You have to do. You know, suck your mother's twat or whatever. Yeah, you have to do. Whatever. It's just like, what? I'm like, that's awesome. The guy got so upset at my presence that he had to say something.

But that's what, but that's what a different music does. It just, it just invokes this feeling into other people, which is what you wanted. Yeah, sure. It's not all, but it's not all gonna be. I don't get mad at it because, listen, I'm not gonna, what I do is not gonna appealed to everybody. Yeah. So be it.

I like that people are passionate about it. You can hate my band. I don't care. You know, you can spew as much invective as you want towards my band. I don't care. That's your opinion. You're more than welcome to it. You know?

I mean, you know, sometimes it gets upsetting, but, you know, it depends on my mood. Depends on my mood. If I'm in a bad mood, I had a bad day at home or whatever, and then I see somebody slagging me or whatever. Yeah, sure, it upsets me, but I get over it. You know, it's somebody's opinion. It's just an opinion. Are you a moody person?

Because I am. It's hard to like, because the mood is what makes this sick. Oh, I know. My wife and I talk about this constantly. But sometimes it spills over. It sucks, man. My wife is like, my wife, she'll, my wife will do something like,

and she'll knock and she's like, can you come out of your dark space please? Dark space. Yeah, your family needs you, you know? Because I'll get lost. in pessimism and... It's easy to. You know, my wife thinks I'm depressed.

Like, my wife thinks I'm, like, clinically depressed. She thinks I'm clinically depressed. Or I have some depression. And I'm like, no, that's the Greek way. I'm like, that's how Greeks are. We need sunshine all the time. And my grandmother was like, you know, my grandmother's outlook on life was like,

be happy today because tomorrow you'll be fucking dead. You know, that's just how she, you know, It's how Greeks kind of are. They're kind of melancholy. Where's your family from? Originally, but my mother and father were from New York, but their parents were from Greece. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Holy shit. Yeah. So they, the migrator from Greece to New York? My mother's side of the family. My mother's father escaped a place called Smyrna Turkey, which was actually a Greek colony in Turkey because they were being persecuted. So they escaped to America where my grandmother already lived, but she had. I had moved from Greece too and it was an arranged marriage and all that crap.

Arranged marriage. Wow. We can't even fat-in that day. No, no, no, no, I know. And my mother and my father's parents, I didn't, I don't know much of their history, unfortunately. I know that my father's father was from Greece and they came to New York and my father's mother, I think, was from England. Oh. But they died, they died, they both died when I was a little kid.

So I have almost no memory. Oh, sad. I have no memory of, you know, I see, I have pictures of them holding me when I'm a little baby and stuff like that. You know, my mother, my mother told me when my, my poppy, my father's father was dying of lung cancer, he said to my mother, I'm never going to get to hold Christopher again. And Christopher being me. And my mother said that was the saddest thing she thinks she ever heard. And, you know, I think about that. And I'm like, that is really like, that's heavy as hell.

To hear that somebody thought of you that much that one of your last dying breaths is that you're never going to get to hold your grandkid again. I can't wrap my head around that kind of thing. Because I'm not in that position of dying, thank God. But, you know, I can't. So that's, but I don't know, other than that, I don't know anything about my father's parents.

Wow. Yeah. It was kind of bizarre and this just hit me. A lot of a, it seems like a commonality with like humans that create music and tend to do their own vision and create genres that don't exist. Tend to not know the most about their deep past as far as like where their family, where their grandparents are from. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah, same. Same meaning. I don't know like a lot. I don't know a lot. I know about my grandparents. I know the people who had interactions with. I know my, you know, I know about my grandparents, my aunts and uncles.

But like before that, I don't know anything. I really should try to learn. Because it's cool. History is awesome. It is. I want to learn more. Yeah, me too. Fuck, dude. I just don't have enough. I have, I don't have time.

Time. What, you have, have you have, have three kids? I have two kids, a wife, a house. I own a business. You know. It's tough to make time, dude. No. It's impossible. I have the band.

The band consumes a ton of time, which it shouldn't, but it does because we're more popular than ever, you know, knock on wood. Good. I'm happy for that. But it's just, there's so much work, you know. And I don't, I'd rather, I'd rather hang out with my oldest son and teach him how to change spark plugs on a car

than go and research my grandparents history because my son is here now. Yeah, man. You know? Yeah, dude. And he's getting into driving now. So like we did the first tune up on his car. And he's learning all this stuff.

And I'm a hot rotter. So it's like, you know, he's like, how can we make the car go faster? Blah, blah, blah. So it's like, I almost got him into hot rotting. And I'm going to be like psyched when to get him in a hot rod. And we'll rebuild an engine together. And that's my dream.

He'll probably get bored of it and be like. Hopefully not. And now he's getting in the metal, which is like, I took him to his first concert, which was cool. You know, we went Dragon Force. Oh, were they two in the first. Asper show, sick. He went to, I took him to Dragon Force, and he loved it.

I liked them. They're fun. They put on a fun-ass show. Yeah. It's not my music, but he loved it. He just loved it. That was great, and he just went to Mega Death, and he just went to Slipknot. So it's like, all right, I've got a metalite in the family.

That's dope. Thank God. What are your, yeah, what do your kids think of your music? They don't think about it. So my youngest doesn't think about it much, right? He just knows daddy, dad went away and he's playing with his band. But my son, it's interesting because my son, he doesn't care about it, but his friends come over

and some of them geek out that I'm an internal bleeding. Wow. So he's like, oh, Jesus fucking Christ, really? Stop talking to my dad. You know? Damn. It's great though, you know, it's cool. I think it's awesome, you know.

And one of his friends plays guitar, so we talk about guitar together. That's dope. Yeah, yeah, and it's cool. But it's just, I think it makes my son a little embarrassed. Maybe, I don't know, you know, I just, I took them, I took my son and all his kids away to the Air Force Museum in Ohio this summer. We flew out, had a great time with the kids and all that stuff.

And we had a blast and my son didn't seem too embarrassed. But every once in a while, I think he gets embarrassed. Sure. You know? And I'm like, I'll walk away. I'm like, yeah. You know.

Like, Dad, go, go away, dad. You're fucking embarrassing me, man. Well, it's funny. Chris, I just want to say, man, I'm really sorry about your friend Bill. Oh, thanks, man. Appreciate that. It's sad, man. He passed away in 2017, right?

Yeah, yeah. And he was a firefighter and he passed away from an accident on the job. Yeah. And I guess one of the, really important facts about your band i really don't hear anyone talk about is that uh because it seems like i guess it's going to open up a story so i'm gonna let it go uh the way it's gonna go but uh so obviously you're from new york he was a new york firefighter yeah okay and uh he was there when uh on nine eleven when twin taras came down he was literally there pulling bodies out of the

bubble. Yeah, he was. You know, and he also had an ex-girlfriend that was also working there. I know, I had the ex-girlfriend. Yeah, you. Yeah, yeah. I had the ex-girlfriend. Billy was not, at that time, Billy was not in the New York fire department. He was a volunteer fireman. He was a in Hicksville. And he, him and his fire company went out to 9-11 to help. And then he got into the New York fire department a little after that. He wanted to be a fireman since he was a little kid. He has baby pictures of himself, a little fireman man. That's all he wanted to do was be a fireman. Man, what we're, I mean, he had to tell you some, some stories. Oh, no, he didn't, you know, he'll talk about it.

But he usually talked about the fun stuff. He didn't talk, he talked about, he talked about 9-11 when we were writing, when we were writing the, started writing the Onward to Mecca album. He was talking a lot about 9-11 and, and what it, you know, all, all, seeing all the bodies and all that and how much, how pissed off he was. And, you know, he didn't know how to process all the emotions about it and all that stuff. So that's kind of only time he really opened up about it, but he usually talked about the fun stuff that happened at the fire department. Is that like a New York thing? It's kind of, hey, we're just going to a little bit too deep to.

I don't know if it's a New York thing. I just don't, or I don't know if it's, you hear a lot of combat veterans don't talk about the ugly stuff. Yeah, that's true. Because why, you know, why bring up the old. I don't know. So I, you know, I know a lot of combat vets don't like to talk about what happened to them. So, you know, you can hear a million stories of a guy said, my grandfather never talked about World War II.

I know. Right. You hear that pretty often, right, right, right. So I'm sure that Billy had a little of that. I can only imagine the shit he fucking saw him. Yeah, because like, you start talking about it. It's like, Jesus Christ, I got to relive carrying this fucking dismembered arm and trying to find who the arm belongs to.

all of that. I got to relive that because I got to talk to some schlub who wants to know about it. You know what I'm saying? I wouldn't want to drag it up. Yeah. You know, but you're not like a slub. You know, no, no, I know. We were best friends. And I never asked him either. Hmm. You know, so I, you know, if he volunteered stuff, fine, but I would never go, oh, so what was like, what was it like to, you know, I would never. I would never, because I, you know, I'm trying to be, trying to be his friend. And I just like, if he wanted to, if he wanted to, I wanted to talk about it. Sure.

I always let him know that he could talk about it. Okay. But I never pushed it or ever asked for him to talk about. Wow. So. I guess, yeah, only you would know. You were there peeling the room. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, that's, I don't know. That's what friendship's about. You got to respect boundaries, but you also got to be there when they need you to be there. Sure. I was always there from whenever he needed me. And he was pretty much always there for me. always there for me whenever I needed him.

You know, I mean, we talked on the phone to, oh my God, we talked on the phone like five times a day. Really? Oh yeah. A first call, first call was like 7.30 in the morning. He'd be on his back porch smoking a cigar. I'd be smoking a cigar. We'd talk about what cigars were smoking. We'd talk about the weather, this, that, you know,

and then call me 20 minutes later. I got an idea for a riff, and then he'd call me again. And then we'd just speak to it. Like, all right, I gotta go. And, you know. Yeah, he would send you voice. Voice. Oh, God.

of beats, right? Oh, yeah. And guitar riffs. One time he sent me, we were just talking about this other day. Me and Chris McCarthy were talking about one of the riffs in one of our songs. And Chris had Chris McCarthy brought up the memory. He's like, I remember when Bill sent that riff.

He said he was listening to a woodpecker in the backyard. And it sounds like a riff. Mm-hmm. And then Chris hummed what the woodpecker was doing. And then I remembered. I'm like, yeah, I remember that. And we turned, that was a sick riff too. He used to do it all the time.

But then sometimes, sometimes he'd send me riffs. Like one time he sent me the peanut, the Charlie Brown theme song. Yeah. He was like, gin, j, jing, ch ch ch ch' ch' ch'n, oh my, let's go. I'm like, dude, Bill, that's the Charlie Brown theme song. He's like, no, it's not.

I'm like, it's the Charlie Brown theme song. He tried to trick you. I'm like, he's like, it's not. I'm like, did you watch Charlie Brown at all the late? He's like, I watched it with my daughter a week, or I'm like, that's where it came. from it's not your riff he's like fuck really I'm like yeah it's fucking Charlie Brown man Bill was talk about a drummer that was ahead of his time man you know

what he wasn't okay so this is what I always say he wasn't he was ahead of his time for death metal yeah but he was not ahead of his time as a drummer because he was a 70s drummer a 70s early 80s groove drummer but everybody was going for when death was going on everybody's going for speed and this and that and Bill was like symbol slashing and you know like real Mitch Mitchell and stuff like that you know that that was his so it was because it because of it of our age and where we came from and what we grew up on you know what I'm saying he just he didn't go into the whole death metal thing like he did of course you know I'm not saying he didn't but he had that he had that a hardcore sensibility

He had that Led Zeppelin Black Sabbath sensibility, you know, the early Iron Maiden sensibility. He had all those sensibilities because he grew up way back then and he put them into his... Yeah, I just think Billy would just so, so unbelievably groovy. Just like he had such good touch and groove. And it just, you know, his symbol work was incredible. Like he'd just come up with some symbol stuff.

And I'd be like, where did that come from? That is so cool. you know and he loved it because i he loved his symbol work too he loved symbols because i can't remember being in the studio and he's just like can you make the symbols louder can you make the symbols i'm like no stop they're so freaking loud all you hear symbols he's like i can't hear my bell i'm like what are you talking about i have a headache yeah you know all i hear is bell right now well i hear it we're not even listening to anything i can still hear the damn bell in my head you know that's how loud it is damn yeah he's just he was just so incredibly talented great dad great friend

friend funny as all get out like just one-liner king just really funny um uh great guy think about him every day and it's it's one of another reason why i won't hang up this band because like i feel like a part of feel like sometimes another another part of him will die if i stop yeah and it's it's it's it's a bit of a uh a burden i carry yeah i guess because i want him wherever he is to be happy that we've made it so far and we're still here yeah you know yeah you guys are still here and i just wanted to put some light on on bill because no one really talks about bill as like a drummer and what and what he's done for multiple genres at that at this point yeah i think so i think so i think he was a great great super groovy man i mean like him and like as far as death metal is

concerned i think him and uh anthony ipri from mortal decay are the like the gruviest most creative drummers from Really? Yeah. That's my, that's my view. Oh yeah. Oh, listen, you don't, you don't know Morton of the K? No. Oh my God.

That's my favorite death metal band. Really? Yeah, the greatest, greatest. Okay. Such, and as a guitar player, yeah. You will love how twisted and wild John, John Hartman and Joe Gordon,

those guys, their harmonies are just incredible, just an incredible band that I think should have been huge. Wow. Yeah. I'm like their biggest cheerleader. I talk about them all the time. I just love, I absolutely love them.

Man, we got to get you a shirt and wear it, every day, man. I, listen, I have like a hundred more of the K shirts. You know, they're my favorite death metal band, for sure.

Cool. Yeah. Well, Chris, this is really cool fucking hanging out with you, man. Yeah, man. I really,

really came interested in talking to you and your band when John Gallagher brought up your ban him. Yeah. So I was asking about, you know, where Slam came from and you were one of the first bands that he mentioned. Yeah.

So it's cool that he, uh, you know, he went out of his way to, to give you the flowers. Yeah, John's a good guy. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he one of like the first, like, people that you guys really connected with outside of like New York? Because it's, yes, actually, yeah. It's like, oh, wait, he gets it.

Oh, that's, that's, so that's exactly, that's exactly the words, he gets it. Yeah. I remember getting, I remember getting the, uh, I don't, I don't know if it was John or Jason sent me the Bathe in Entrails demo. Yeah. And I was like, ran to practice with it. I was like, dude, you gotta check these guys out.

They get it. Oh, yeah, they get it. Yeah, yeah. And we were all cranking that, we were all cranking that demo. We're like, yeah, I'm like, all these riffs are sick. I'm like, these guys get it. It's groovy. Damn, wow.

You know, and we used to hang out. We trade shows back and forth. There's a video on YouTube somewhere of us playing at a place called Wilmer's Park in Maryland. And you can see there was nobody at the show. Yeah. Us dying fetus. I forgot who else was there. And there's this video you could see Gallagher in the crowd fucking going nuts.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, they'd play and we'd go nuts. And we'd play and they'd go nuts. And there was like nine people at the show, you know, or whatever. Wow. Yeah. Nobody.

And we didn't care. We'd go back to, we'd go back to, uh, yeah, there's, you could see John, right, John's in the crowd. Really? Yeah, somewhere in. This is it? Yeah, that's it. That's Wilmer's Park in Maryland.

Damn. Yeah. Yeah, crank this shit, dude. That's, uh, despoilment of rotting flesh is the song. And John's in there, Moshin. Yeah, John's in there, Mashi, yeah. Wow, I'm playing a Gibson Explorer. I threw that guitar away.

You threw it away? Yeah. The biggest piece of junk ever. Yeah. I spent so much. So much time saving up for that guitar. Yeah. Because I wanted an explorer.

Yeah. And I bought it. And like after like three shows, the polyurethane on the back like started melting off. Oh my goodness. The build quality was terrible. I'm like, I can't believe I spent whatever. It was like 900 bucks on it back then. Wow.

Never bought a Gibson again. It's good. Never. Never. Nope. Dude. Internal bleeding and dionepedes were literally like creating like the building blocks. Yeah.

We're playing in front like 12 people. 93. I think Jason, I think Jason Netherton told me he filmed this. That's John in the baseball hat over there on the left, I believe. Damn. Yeah, so we'd play for them and they'd play for us. So we had our own concerts together, you know. Wow, dude.

Yeah, right after I'd play, I'd get in the crowd and wait for them to come on stage. And then we'd go to Jason's, I think it was his parents' house or his mother's house and we'd sit in their garage and drink all night of course and jam and play and do whatever so much fun yeah yeah uh you mentioned those like early shows were just like there's just nobody there no none no no no early early shows they just stunk they were off awful just awful maryland november 6 1993 yeah wilmer's park wow dude yeah it's cool that is fucking up there yeah yeah yeah there's some there's some there's some old there's some old there's some There's some good old videos up there, which is a, I look back and I'm like, God, I don't have one gray hair.

Look, that's a, so this show is in Ohio, I think, at the Red Eye Lounge. Yeah, I was right. Ohio. And I had 102 fever at this show. I remember that. Oh, that sucks ass. Yeah. Yeah.

It was like swilling orange juice and like, I was so sick. It was a great show, though. And the explorer is gone. Explorer's gone. And I think that's a Jackson. Went Jackson, okay. Sick. Either that or it was my sharp.

model six i can't tell i know i think yeah no that might be my sharp valve which i regret selling but why haven't you and uh fetus toured recently it makes so much sense now ask john i i i'm sure it's a management thing you know i don't know i think it does i i would i would kill for it man i mean you know i would love the opportunity to do it just to hang out every night and play you know make me feel old times yeah which would be great you know talk about like a full circle moment. You guys built this fucking thing. Yeah, but they're on, you know what?

They're on, they're just on a totally different level than we are. So, like, I don't think it'll ever happen. But you never know. You never know, man. We keep putting it out there. Yeah, you never know. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I mean, listen, I hope for it, but I don't put any stock in it.

Whatever happens happens. Yeah. You know? Once last time you talked to John? Last, I talked to John last summer. and we played together at a hell in the harbor in Maryland. Nice. Yeah, and we hung out for a while.

We had a lot of laughs. It was great. Fuck, yeah. A lot of laughs, a lot of smiling and cracking up about, you know, stories about being in Jason's garage and... Wow. Yeah. And my mother being horrified about when they slept over my house

and my mother was horrified at their band name. Why'd you pick Dying Fetus? That's such an awful name. And you're such nice boys. My mother said, you're such nice boys. You're such nice boys. Why would you do that? Poor John and Jason, they're like twisting in their shoes because they're getting, oh, my mother just like, she didn't, she didn't mean anything bad.

Yeah, sure. John and Jason didn't know what to say. And, you know, Jason was trying to intellectualize it, you know, like, you know, this is the music. She's like, well, I don't get it. But you're very nice boys. Wow. Yeah, she did that to Mortal Decade, too. They came over my house for my parents' house for like a pool party.

whatever. Yeah. And my mother's like ogling their tattoos. Why would you do this to yourself? What is this me? Oh, those poor guys. Wow. My mother was awesome.

Oh, she was cool. She's like, but you're a nice boy. I bet you're a good family boy. What does your parents think when you started showing him tunes? My father loved the music. He's like, wow, that must take a lot of work. Yeah. But those vocals are terrible.

And my mother was like, I don't want to hear it. So. Yeah. And my mother, my mother never, it's funny. My mother never gave a crap about the band ever. Like, she was like, she was one of those people that like, when are you going to grow up and? Yeah. But then she got, like I said, she got later in life.

She was like, she thought it was the, I don't know when it switched. It was years after she retired from work. When she, when she was working. She was always like, when are you going to get a life and this and that? Yeah. You know, my mother was a cutthroat business woman. And so, right, yeah, she was. She was manager of fucking a huge department store.

Back when women weren't managers of department stores, you know. So she was ruthless. Yeah. You know, smart business woman. But she, you know, she thought all this was a waste. You know, I should be focusing on my career and, you know, all that crap. Because my mother was a very driven woman like I am. But I was driven in a different, I was driven in a different way.

I was driven by music and I was driven by my career. And I said, why can't I have both? Yeah. Why can't I do both? And so, you know, I don't know when it was. Sometime after she retired, she just started talking about telling me how amazing she thought it was that I was going all over the world and playing music and, you know. That's awesome.

And then there was a couple of times like I'd be in a mall with my mom and people come up for autographs and my mother be like, damn. My mother'd be like, what the fuck? That's a big moment. For my mom, it was. Yeah. Like that changed her whole, like, perspective on what I did.

I know that's so superficial. And it should be like, I'm so proud of you for whatever, you know, but that, that kind of, and when there was a giant picture of me in the New York Times, like my mother called all her friends, by today's New York Times, my son. You know, that gave it credibility.

For whatever reason, that gave it credibility to my mom. You know, and my father was always, he was always, you know, do what you want. you only get one life. And who says you can't have two careers? You know.

That's dope, man. Yeah. It's not, I don't think it's superficial. It's just like people just need to see things. You know, it's kind of like, especially for the kind of music. Like you need to see it. It's like worth of click sometimes. Yeah, no.

My mother was, I don't want to say she was superficial, but my mother was, she was, my mother was status conscious. Sure. So things like, so things like, like, Like me being in the New York Times, you know, the New York Times is the paper, everybody read. So that's a status symbol.

So it was, you know, my mother was like stuff like that. Yeah. You know, I mean, she worked in a luxury, she worked in a luxury department store. She worked in Bloomingdale, so she was surrounded by status stuff. Sure. So, it's okay. Yeah, you, you know what, hey, you mentioned, you mentioned being really competitive.

For someone that that doesn't know, Is there like ever like a, a rivalry with like the Florida and New York scene at all? I never. I mean, I, I felt a rival with everybody. Nice. Yeah. I mean. I was like, fuck.

Not a, not. Yeah, well, basically. Yeah. That's not like, but that's, that doesn't mean I'm, that doesn't mean I'm not your, like, best friend. Yeah. It's funny. Me and you think very, very alike. It's like, we're like, fuck you.

I'm going to kill you, but also to the same time. Let's go get a drink. Let's go get a drink and hang on and be best friends. I mean, anything, I'll probably be the first one there, but also I'm going to kill you. Right. It's like this crazy. A lot of people don't understand that mindset. They should because you know what?

The more people who are competitive, the better the product. 100%. You know. And that's totally, that's totally the product is better when you're, when you're just, if you're not competitive or you don't have that competitive edge, I don't think you're ever going to refine your product. It's true. You got to be on that.

You got to be on your toes or edge all the time. It just brings the best. Yeah. It brings out the, it brings out the best. Now, I can admit, as I get older, my competitiveness is waning.

Okay. All right? Because I've been competitive since, you know. Child. Yeah. Since a kid. And it's, it's tiring.

It is. It's tiring. to be competitive because you always have to, you know, my wife will say things like, she's like, you have, you never take a second to celebrate a victory. Never. She's like, you're already on to the next thing that needs to be conquered. Yeah. And she's like, you need to take a step back and you need to chill. Wow. Like, I don't know, I don't know what happened, you know, I think, I think like when we got a string of shows with Heyprey, I was like really excited about it.

You know, I knew they were going to be big shows. I knew they were going to be awesome. And I was really excited about it. And it was a victory. And I was like, I told my wife about it. I was already on to like, you know, what's next? And she's like, you just told me this was like one of the coolest things that's ever happened.

And you didn't even sit back and relax and enjoy it. You just went on to the next fucking thing. You know, Conviety You know, and bathe records of ventas with the form of

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Empe your per for an euro a month in Shopify.s bar records. Is that a good thing or a... No, it's a blessing and a curse, okay? And as I get older, I realize it's a little bit of a curse

because I'm sometimes not present for my family because I'm being too competitive. That happens. Right, it does happen. It does happen. I get into my own space, my competitive space, and I lock out

everything gets shut out, you know, and it's not fair to my kids and it's not fair to my wife. And I chose to be married. I chose to have children and I have to honor that commitment. Yeah. So I have to dial back the competitiveness. And I've been working on it. I can't say I've perfected it, but I am. And my wife has noticed a difference.

That's great. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I've actually talked to therapists about it. I'm not afraid to admit it. You know, I talk about, like, how I'm always moving on to the next thing I don't enjoy, you know, and they help give me some perspective. So it's cool.

Like, I've learned to, like, downshift. Yeah. And I feel way better. Good. I feel way better. Now, now, 30-year-old me would never say that. 56-year-old me says it. And it took fucking 25 years.

It took a long time. It took a long time. but, you know, I would tell, I would even tell you, I mean, you're still young. I would even tell you just smell the fucking roses once in a while. Chill out. This is one of the reasons I smoke cigars. Really?

One of the reasons I smoke cigars is because you have to focus. Like right now I'm smoking a cigar just because I want to, but there's, I can say I'm taking a victory lap and I'll grab a cigar and I'll grab a bourbon and I'll go outside on my front porch. The world goes away and I celebrate my victory. My wife will come out. We'll hang out on the front porch together.

I'll smoke my cigar. I have a drink. My son will come out. We'll talk about cars. We'll do this. And these last like two hours. And I just had two hours of downshifting and putting things into perspective and celebrating a victory.

And I celebrated it, you know, with my wife and my kids and I'm not being harried and stressed and I'm happier. So it's also a tool of focus and distraction. So how do you feel after it's done? Like, that was their right thing to do? Yep, 100%. I was like, I was like, I needed that. And, you know, I owe that all to my wife

because she's beating me up about it. Yeah. Not in a bad way. Not being a jerk or anything like that, but she's like, you're missing out on a lot of your life because you're always on to the next thing and you're so fucking competitive. Yeah.

I get it for my mom. My mom was insanely competitive. Insanely competitive. Wow. That's how she rose so high, you know, in her field, you know, because she was, she would step on anybody. She's like, I don't give a fuck if he's, he's a man. I'll step on his face, you know?

You kind of have to do that to get that next level, man. Yeah, yeah. Like, my mother never believed in anything like, my mother never believed in stuff like feminism and all that stuff. She's like, why? I'll just kill the man. I'll step right on, step right over him. That's how my mother, that, yeah, that's how my mother was.

She was like, yeah. It was pretty inspiring. It was pretty inspiring to see my mother being like, and she didn't, my mother didn't give two fucks. Like my mother was like, with my teachers, whatever, you know, if a teacher, like, I'll never forget that my mother forgot to write an absent note for me. Yeah. And my teacher, Mr. Riley, said, said to, my,

said to me, he's like, I want you to mother, mother to write an excuse note why she forgot the absent note. I was like, are you serious? He's like, yeah, I'm serious. So I told my mother, my mother got so fucking man. She wrote him like a five-page letter and called him the most horrible names you could imagine. I'm like, I can't give this to him. You give it to that piece of shit. I fucking work 12 fucking hours a day and I forget one thank you note, one one absent note. and he's telling me I have to write a note. I pay his fucking salary with my taxes. Fuck him, you know.

That's sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mother was the kind of person who would yell at people for parking in handicapped spots. Wow. You white trash piece of shit. You're not even handicapped. What are you doing?

What happens if some handicapped person comes and has to get out of her car or his car? Get the fuck out of you. Yeah, me and my sister are like, oh, God. Yeah. She'd come back. She's like, that's just, that's just not right.

It's kind of cool to see that, though. You got to fucking... Oh, my mother, my mother was... And my father is like... My father is like... He's just like... He was like the most mellow... My father liked to yell,

but like he, generally speaking, everything rolled off his back. Like... Yeah. Dad, you're not worried? Why? You're not dead. You know, that's...

That was my dad. My dad was like the stoic. Ah, they were great. I love my parents. I miss them dearly. they were a comedy show so yeah that's that's what a good woman does

it just they'll just push you and uh it's it seems like they push you out of your man zone they know they they want you to accomplish the impossible like you're weaving in and out of your man zone you need to be a ruthless savage man at this point

but also switch it at the quickest second and be chill and you learning that dynamic and that kind of how to compartmentalize in an instant, that's what seems like that what they

try to help you do. Yeah. You know, they try, women, you know, a good partner completes you.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's that, like my wife, my wife completely completes me. That's great. She knows my, she knows,

she knows exactly how I think. She knows, you know, she knows what I'm going to do next and she knows how to get me out of a hole if I'm in a hole. Yeah. And she knows when I'm feeling vulnerable, how to make me feel strong.

Wow. You know, and you can't, you know, you can't put a, you can't put a price on that, man. I'm like, I think a lot of guys. And I was always, I was always, always, always, all my whole life, a commitment person.

So I never went like the crazy five girls, this, that. I always went for relationships. ships. Yeah. You know, and they were always, generally always long term, you know, and I try to tell some of my friends who were just, like, out chasing girls all the time, I'm like, it's, it's empty. It's kind of empty. It's cool. It's fun. It's cool for like a period of time, but there's just, like, some switcher like, I'm tired of doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stability and, and somewhere soft to land. Sometimes you just need somewhere. Let's work.

That's what my wife says to me. She's like, you're the person that's, you're my soft landing spot. She's a social worker. It's quite a put it. Yeah, she's a social worker in a high school and she deals with kids are like, you know, where's your arm?

Oh, the gang chopped it off, you know? Like that's who she deals with on a daily basis, like a mess. She deals with kids who are just like in trouble all the time. And it's got to be emotionally, horrible to deal with. Yeah. So I'm her soft place to land after that.

After a day of school and she had to deal with, you know, this girl who's like 13 and pregnant and doesn't know what to do and this and, you know, she deals with all that. So she needs somebody to like be there for her because she's there for everybody else. And that's who I am. And I love it. I think it's great that I can do that. It makes it's very rewarding.

Yeah. How long have you been married? 18 years. 18. Together for 20. Damn. I know. I can't believe it.

I can't. It's like, like, crazy. It's all because of the cigar. It's all because of the cigar. My wife got me into, like, my, she's terrible. My wife got me into all these, like, so I'm, like, big into, like, what would you go, gentlemanly stuff. Okay, like I'm a throwback guy.

Like I like Humphrey Bogart movies and things like that. So like she got me into old school shaving with like a straight razor and safety razors and stuff like that and shaving brushes and stuff. She bought me that for Christmas once, you know? Oh shit. So she knows I like this old school stuff. So like, you know, she knows I like whiskey

because that's so old school and she knows I love watches because watches like, you know, everybody wears an eye watch or something. But I always wear mechanical watches. Yeah, I do it. It's old school, you know, and I love all the old. Actually, I have a whole website dedicated to that called the metal gentleman.com. Which is all, which is all about, which is all about, you know, bourbon reviews, shaving cream reviews. Dude, listening to you talk about it, it made me want to like, do you know, I need to get back into after shave.

Oh, dude. I have a million going to go into grooming. There's a million aftershave. I need to get a good aftershave. See, look, look, I have there. Bay rum. There's a Bay Rum, if you scroll down, there's a Bay Rum Aftershave review.

Osage Rubbit aftershaven aftersave review. Lime shaving soap review. Barber Blue Aftershave is amazing. So I'm into all this old school stuff, you know? I mean, I drive a muscle car, you know, from the 60s. I'm just like stuck in the old school. Yeah, there's my car. Boom, that's fucking.

That's what Slam looks like. It's a 68 barracuda. If you want to know what Slam looks like, you need to look at this car. You need to listen to it. That's, that's, that's, it sounds badass. I love it. That's my pride and joy.

That's fucking dope, dude. It took me about 10 years to restore it. It was a piece of junk when I bought it, yeah. Jesus, man. Working every day in my parents' basement on it, and I had the whole, half the car disassembled in their basement. Wow. And you put it all, all the guys?

And 85% of the work is mine. That's a lot. I had a... That's a lot. I had professionals work on the body and stuff so it would look... Because I don't know anything about that. But...

Yeah. Holy shit. Well, internal bleeding is making a lot of sense now. That's fucking dope, dude. Yeah, thanks. Well, Chris, I know you guys got to get to... Watch reviews. How do you say the one to the left?

Prospects. Speed timer. No, the name. The brand. Seiko. Seiko. Yeah. So you mentioned Seiko being like the most...

affordable, correct? One of the most affordable high-quality watches. Yeah, okay. There's better. I mean, I mean, like that Foybus Wavemaster is absolutely gorgeous watch. Yeah. But the internals of that watch

are made by Seco. Oh. So they're, how, are they connected to somehow? No, no. Saco sells what's called their movement. That's what makes the watch work. Damn it. Cicco sells their movement to other watch companies.

Yeah. So yeah, it's fascinating. You know, like that that, that, that, that, uh, that, that, uh, luxury without the price take, that's like $250. It's a fully automatic watch. It's super reliable. It's a great watch. The, the watch over on the right is like, that's like $1,500.

That's a zodiac. Wow. I bought that because of the zodiac killer because that's, if you look, that's the symbol of the zodiac killer. Oh, really? Yeah. And it was, it's supposedly said that he wore that watch. That's how they fit.

That's where he got the, his symbol from. Oh, really? Is from the watch, yeah. That's fucked up. Yeah, so that's why I bought the watch. I was like, it's in the movie Zodiac, too. It's like, you know, they're like, oh, that's a real nice watch. Let me see it.

It was a Zodiac. Super, super, super C-King, yeah. So, see, there's the symbol. That's where he got the symbol from. That's what they theorize, yeah. Interesting. I mean, where else could he? Oh, who knows?

It could mean anything. The guy was a nut, but that's, that's the symbol, yeah. Damn, how many people did he kill? I don't remember. I just, I'm just fascinated. I'm fascinated by it because nobody caught him. No one caught him. And the, and the ciphers and all the codes and all that stuff.

I'm like, it's pretty wild. I wonder how many people was. At least just five. Five, but they never caught him. They never caught him. Oh, yeah, in the San Francisco Bay Area from now, claimed to have murdered 37 people. Right, he claimed to have murdered 37,

but we don't know if that's the truth or not. Damn, holy shit, dude, from 68 to 69. Yeah. Someone also the most magical years of music. Oh yeah, and cars. In cars. Yeah, it's the 60s, man. Yeah, I know.

They'll never happen again. Yeah. You know, fuck, dude. Hey, the 70s won't happen again, and 90s won't happen again. Every decade has its thing. It's true. I wonder how people are gonna look back at, at this time, like, music. I wonder how they're gonna look back at it.

Oh, that shit sucked or that. Oh, that's pretty good. cool. I wonder how it's going to all pan out. I think there's going to be, I think they're going to be like 20 years from now. I think there's people are going to be like, God, that shit sounds so fake. Because there's going to be a revolution. There's going to be a revolution in music where everybody goes back to recording a lot. We were talking about this in the back, on the back when I said I was listening to that one song and I was like, wow, the guitarist fell

off. And then I had to realize that it was recorded in the 90s and I wouldn't have cared in the 90s and now I do and I just think there's going to be I think there's going to be a revolution yeah so we used to come out just fucking pissed dude like we uh we did our first record live and no other band in our genre can't even can do it so I think yeah I think there might be a time where like just inspires like a new yeah there's always there's always there's always a pendulum to these things true you know I remember the uh what was it called like what was it 10 years ago the loudness wars where everybody just compressed everything to be as loud as possible.

Yeah. Now people are backing off. Some people are backing off on that. And I think there's a, you know, I think some of that is, I think there'll be a bit of a revolution. That'd be dope. Yeah. That'd be sick.

I won't be around for it, but. I'll probably be dead too. I hope it happens. I was taking the piss this morning. I was looking in the mirror. I was like, damn, I got some more gray hairs today. Like, fuck, man. Welcome to the family.

Yeah. Yeah. Dude, literally like, right? You got hair, so that's good. It's good. Yeah, I think it's the... Half my band's bald. They have no hair, which I make fun of constantly, because I'm twice everybody's age and I have

like more hair than any of them, except our bass player who's 12, so it doesn't count. Yeah, he doesn't count. Chris, anything I missed? Any closing thoughts or anything? No, thanks for having me, man. I had a... I'm honored, dude. Great conversation.

We're off to San Diego for another show and... Brick by brick. Yeah. You guys are doing a world tour in a month. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, this is crazy. This is three shows in California, one in Hawaii, one in Thailand, then three in Australia, then home.

Whose idea was that? Well, it was... It was... No, no, no, no, no. So it was wild-ass coincidence. Okay? Okay, so like, when we first hooked up with our manager, Mark Vieira, I said, listen, I said, I said,

I'm in my 50s. I'm not going to be a... around forever. I'm not looking to be a rock star, but there's some bucket list stuff I want to do. Oh, okay. And I took it down and he's like, all right, we're going to do what we can to make it happen. And literally it's like got an offer for a show in Hawaii. I'm like, how are we going to play Hawaii? All right, let's play three shows in California and the promoter from Hawaii will fly us to Hawaii from California. Great. The minute that show was announced, a guy from Thailand calls our manager and says,

do you want to play in Thailand? No, sorry, a guy from Australia calls and says, do you want to play do three shows in Australia? And we're like, hell yeah. Fuck yeah, dude. The jump is too much. And then like, like snap,

guy from Thailand calls. I see you're playing Australia. Come to Thailand. I'm like, oh, fuck, another bucketless place. I'm like, we got to make this work. You know, it's going to be a ride from hell, but we got to make it work. because it's all bucketless stuff.

That's great, man. My favorite place to go is Bangkok, Thailand. There's something about walking those streets. It's cool. Never been. Yeah, food. I'm looking forward for street. Yeah, man.

I'm sure I can get some really cheap watches, too. So I'm like, they'll probably be fake, but I don't care. It's connected to the memory and, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll buy like a fake Rolex or something. It'll be hilarious. Anything coming up, or you want to, talk about, is there like a new record?

Yeah, so we have a new album. We have a new album called Settle All Scores that's pretty much done being recorded. And we're shooting to come out with that in late 2025. Great. On Maggottson. So we're looking forward to that.

Settle all scores. The title is about us settling scores with people that fucked us. Yeah, man. We don't name names, but it's a very, personal album for like me and Chris McCarthy and stuff like that because there's, you know, the industry is full of a lot of people who aren't good. It's also filled with a lot of great

people too. But this is about this is about the people who've treated us wrong and ripped us off and taken money from us and, you know, bad people. So it sucks that we all have to go through that, man. Yeah, it's part of the business. It is part of the business. It is part of the business. It has happened to you at least once or twice. Right. Yeah, a couple of times, a bunch of times. But it's like, then you meet some people like, you know, you meet some people who are just, like our manager is fantastic. He's just great.

He's like, he cares, actually cares about the band, which is great. That's great to hear, yeah. It's great to hear. Well, Chris, do you, I mean, you've inspired, you and Internal Blaine have inspired multiple generations of bands and throughout multiple genres. It's like the slam scenes coming back. The bands like peeling flesh are popping off right now, which is a band like you guys are part tour with. The whole death core is around.

I didn't really, I mean, if there's no internal bleeding, there's no death core. It doesn't exist. Yeah, well, like, it's cool, man. Like Ben from All Shell Parish said to me, he's like, he's like, there would be no All Shell Parish if there wasn't internal bleeding.

If I didn't listen to that Driven to Conquer album, you know. Damn. Yeah. That's fucking badass, dude. Yeah, it's great. And we're playing with them. They hooked out. They talk about paying it back.

They hooked us up with two shows in New York. Really? We're one in New York, and I think we're going to play with them in Boston. Nice. Yeah. Great. I know Eddie mentioned something that they're doing something next year.

Yeah. That's cool, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great to hear that you guys are on all shows. Yeah, it's great. I know Ben. So I've known Ben forever, and he's such a great guy.

That's dope, man. That's cool. I texted him when I texted him when I got, you know, my manager asked me, said they're snooping around looking for opening, you know, I just text it Ben. I'm like, dude, he's like, I'm going to ask everybody.

And like five minutes later, he's like, hell yes. You know, awesome. This is how the text went out. You text, Ben, hey, let me show you how it's done. That's what I do, but it's all playful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys want to see this show? Because I will show you how it was done real quick.

It's all fun, though. Yeah, of course. It's all full. Well, yeah, so check out to the new record. Chris, again, thank you. you for your time. I'm honored. I'm honored to actually sit down and see you in person. Thank you. Thank you for the nice cocktail. I appreciate it. Anytime, man. Thank you. All right. Everyone, that's it. Data. Thank you.