Garza Podcast - 148 - DARK FUNERAL | Lord Ahriman: Black Metal, Corpse Paint & Afterlife

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with Lord Ahriman. Guitar Player & founder of black metal band DARK FUNERAL. https://linktr.ee/darkfuneral SPONSORS & SUPPORT: Garza Podcast Coffee: https://conceptcafes.com/product/garzapodcastcoffee/43 Brand New Merch: https://garzapodcast.myshopify.com CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Being Sick on Tour 02:05 - Longevity, Staying Inspired 04:18 - Growing Up & Learning Guitar 06:52 - Following Your Own Path 12:16 - Designing Jewelry 16:28 - “Second Wave” of Black Metal 18:21 - Not Getting Credit for Genre Influence, Unfair Media Coverage 23:54 - Regrets, Mistakes, Business & Creative 26:09 - Black Metal & Scandinavia 28:07 - Following His Own Beliefs 29:53 - Is Black Metal Satanic? Thoughts on Afterlife 35:45 - Competition Within the Scandinavian Metal Scene 39:46 - Lorna Shore, Black Metal Influence 41:45 - Impact of Mayhem on the Scene 45:47 - Corpse Paint Origins 48:33 - The Sound of Black Metal Recordings 50:44 - Writing “Unchain My Soul” 53:33 - Writing “Open the Gates” 55:00 - Recording Demos with a Portable Recorder 57:25 - Exercise, Tour Injuries, Surgeries 1:03:55 - Dark Funeral Latte 1:06:01 - Tour with Gwar & Reaction 1:07:44 - Where Riffs Come From 1:09:18 - Friends That Go to Church 1:11:05 - Bands That Supported Dark Funeral 1:13:35 - On Tour Now & European Tour

Oraman from Dark Runel. It is an honor to finally hang out with you. I try to contact you. I forgot how I tried to contact you, but I tried to hit you up last year. So it's cool to actually have you here, man. Thank you for hanging. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah.

So last show, you were deadly sick? Yeah. I'm sorry, dude. When you're out, oh man, when you heard this out on a road and you're sick? You can't go nowhere. No, it's just got to get through the day and the show. Yeah, and he still got to rip. Yeah.

And then you got to make the people... Don't notice. Not notice, yeah. It's not easy, but that's tour life. It is. Well, at least you're not the singer. Exactly. You know?

Yeah, so I can kind of lean on the guitar and hide behind that a little bit. Yeah, what you have? Right now I'm using a... ESP, Black Metal Arrow. Uh-huh. Oh, cool. So. I mean, what did you, what a sickness did you have?

It's just fever. It's fever? Yeah, just very high fever. Nothing else. There was no corona or anything. It's just fever. This is, usually, I'm not sick very often. But when I get sick, I get fever.

That's pretty much it. Oh, yeah. You don't have like a, you don't have like a middle ground? No. It's just feel great? Or I have a, I have a, fucking fever. Exactly. I'm going to have

an outer body experience. Yeah. That was the kind of feeling I had the last time here in California on stage.

Oh man. Do we this is the time for you to have a good time in SoCal, dude. Yeah. I mean,

I'm glad to be back. I was here at NAM the last time. Oh, cool. So it's not too long since I was here the last time. Nice.

I always enjoy California. That's cool, man. So you've been in Dark Funio for 31 years, probably going on 32, correct? Yeah.

Congrats, man. That's this you found the key to longevity. You know? I guess I'm just a stubborn guy. There is a little bit of... With a crazy vision that I just got to follow.

There is a, there is like a being stubborn with, with your vision, huh? It's like, it's like what you, you literally have. it in like your head and then you're just you just got to go it's it's it and yeah and we've been doing it for as long as i have now it's what else can you do you know this is such a big part of your life so just keep on going and i always you know find new sources of inspiration new ideas that i want to achieve and stuff like that so yeah i'm never satisfied just got to you know

keep on challenging myself all the time that that is a piece to it huh here's just something you're never satisfied it'll kind of drive you crazy but it does like it's kind of what keeps you there's always a rift there's always a tour it's always yeah i know many people tell me like sometimes you even you know sometimes you got to be satisfied yeah i mean i can be satisfied in a way but still not uh hundred percent it's like i'm it's fucked up I may go to 80% and I'm like, okay, I can always do this better. It's always the 80% rule, huh? Yeah.

You want to be satisfied 80%. I guess that's where I go. I mean, I'm very confident in what I'm doing, so that's not the case. Yeah. But I always feel like, okay, I did all right or something like that, but yeah, I can do better. It's always that in the back of my mind. And sometimes it's tough, but that's a same. same time it's a driving force, you know, that keeps you going.

Yeah. You know that you can better yourself, better everything you do with the band, and, you know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you mentioned that you were inspired to play music and song writing from your grandmother, your mother and your younger sister, right? Yeah. My grandmother, everybody had been doing different kind of music.

So I grew up with lots of instruments in my home at my grandmother's place. My mother-ware had been singing her whole life. Always took me to concert when I was a kid, to the theater, you know, to her singing classes and choirs and stuff like that. Oh, epic. And I played different kind of instruments ever since I was, I don't know when I start, but very young. But I was late on the ground.

guitar. I played guitar, but everybody, you know, when you have family members around you, that, yeah, here's a guitar, play it. Then you don't want to play it, especially if you're a guy like me. Yeah. Yeah. I want to, you know, I want to choose myself. Yeah. So it wasn't until I, yeah, I met a good friend of mine who was super good at guitar already at that time. And I start playing on his, you know, I can't remember what kind of guitar he had there. Probably like ESP or something. Was it Sorwell? Something like that. But he was playing after, you know, spinning the vinyl records with Metallica,

Magidase, you know. I was playing by the records 12 hours a day. Then I started trying myself. 12 hours a day? Yeah, he was such a good guitar player at that time. He was just playing guitar all day long. After all the metal records he bought. Even on a toilet, you think?

Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised. But yeah, then I started picking up the guitar from him and something just clicked at that time and then I started playing. So it was one of your good friends that inspired you to

Yeah, I guess so. Watching him, it's like, man, is he ever going to stop? Yeah, but it was cool, you know. You know, when you have a friend who just put on a record and he just play every fucking song he put on, that was pretty cool that, you know, when you're 15 years old I don't see that. It was a couple of years old than me, so.

But yeah, that's where it started. And then after a while, he and I, and then other guy started my first band called Satan's Disciples. Yeah, and there we go. Nice. I want to ask you what your, like, what was your, like, upbringing like? Like, how do you go, you know, from a kid going to see choir to, okay, I'm going to, get into the black metal scene?

I don't know. I mean, I've always been interested in the darker side of human nature and the cult and stuff like that. It's just been part of my soul ever since, you know, I guess. So for me, for me, none of that have been weird or strange. It's just been natural to me to enter that world. It's never, nothing there I've been thinking about that. yeah I'm going to start reading about this topic or anything it just you know fell on me natural and then I just followed uh follow there what like was there like a particular thing or

a moment or even song and what like what like it's really hard to say but I you know I grew up in the north part of Sweden where it's either very cold and dark and or sun 24 hours a day No sun. Yes. It's either way. Oh, okay. Some of the time the sun was pretty much open 24 hours a day, you know, all around the clock. And the wintertime is very dark and cold.

So it's just too kind of. And we grew up like that. And also in the north part of Sweden, people are very reserved, very melancholic, I guess. It's, you know, part of our nature. Yeah. So, so it's, you know, it's difficult to really pinpoint on one or two things that really took me this road. But as I said, it's just, you know, I was myself. There was nobody else when I grew up who was interested in this.

It was me. So I kind of always walked my own path. So that's why, you know, while everybody's always. I was weird and strange, you know, when I was a kid. Well, he listened to that kind of music and he think this or that. I was like, well, this is me. Take her or leave it. Nobody going to affect me and what I want to do and, you know, where my interest lies.

It's cool, especially like around here where it's so, like, people just want to be, like, it feels like people just want to be, like, accepted all the time, you know, so it's, unfortunately, it is a rare case where someone. actually just doesn't care what the other person thinks especially as such like like a young age you know like teens that that that's when you care about what people think about you but you just didn't it's just you you just followed your own yeah that's what i had to do and uh it's like when i'm talking my parents and my you know childhood friends they all say you know when they they see me now on tour and stuff they're like yeah you always fucking walked your own way you're just like you're

you know you didn't listen what anybody else said you can't do this or that you know yeah but for me it's uh it's just the way i am i don't think much about it uh and nobody going to change me you know into being somebody i'm not especially now yeah exactly now i'm already born for life so yeah you're like you're kind of you yeah you know it's like no it's don't going back now Once you're putting on that corpus paint, you're not going back. No, no. You know, once you just...

No, but I think, you know, everybody think too much about what everybody else think, you know, like you mentioned. Why do people do that, though? Well, you know, people are judgmental. They look at you and they judge you by your look. And then they kind of burn you. That's the way it always been for me. But for me, it's like, yeah. I don't mind being the black sheep.

So for me, it didn't bother me. But I think it's, I don't know, people should just try to feel more free inside of themselves and be who they want to be, I think, and don't care about what everybody else think. And I guess that's, you know, what we find with music, we create our own universe, which is hours. Nobody can touch that. That's, you know, one reason we do music,

I guess. That's true. It's true, especially when it's your, you know, especially when it's like your own band. It is your own, like, universe. It is. Yeah. Where you feel comfortable.

That's where you feel your, you know, safe spot and yeah, it's just there you feel the best when you're one with the music and especially the music you created yourself and with your band mites. When you were growing up, were you ever like religious? No. My grandfather was what you call, I can't remember the English name for it. But yeah, it's never been much religion. Well, my mother was in a or sometimes you sing in the church and stuff like that but you I've never had any

religious kind of pressure on me from anybody or anything so wow so so when they're seen in choir then you come in at what point uh in your life did you kind of come to your parents or or I like hey uh I want to be in a black metal band and this is and this is what it's about I don't know if I ever mention anything we're I started my first band. It was called Satan's disciple. I mean, I didn't really have to say much, you know, to describe what I was into. So they didn't, it didn't bother them or?

No, I think, you know, at that time they felt like, that's crazy, dude. No, but I felt like at that time I was kind of, yeah, it was kind of cute apart on my life that period. So when I found the music and start focusing on playing guitar, you know, that's where my focus changed. So the chaos, well, it was still chaos, I guess, but it was more controlled chaos and good chaos than. What was going on? I guess I was, you know, skipping school, drinking too much and yeah, doing things I shouldn't be doing.

Of course. Fuck yeah. So yeah. So the music kind of saved me and put me on a good path. But then, well, that depends on who you ask, of course. Of course. But for me, it's, yeah, the music changed my life and my priorities.

What was the band? What was like the Pacific? What was the handful of bands that really made you focus on that stuff? No, it was just me, you know, enjoying playing guitar and picking those notes and writing music. I didn't really have an inspiration and a specific band. You know, I wanted to create something new. And that's always been, you know, what I'm interested. I never, you know, that's where I start doing my own eularies.

I did my first jewelry in 92. I was like, I don't want to have, go and buy, go to the store and buy a upside. I'm cross or pentagram like everybody else is wearing. It's always been me. I want to create my own stuff. Whether it's music, designing, you know, whatever it is, clothing, eulries. It's always been in my interest working with designs too and create things I want to wear, things that nobody else wear.

But now it's pretty cool when I do my jewelry. Most of other people like it, like the designs. Yeah. And this is not like, well, it's my signature euleries that I create, but people don't have to like me or the band to buy it. I just, you know, this is separate from that. This is cool designs that I like myself and that means something to me. So, and it seems like people like them. So it's doing pretty good on the sale for that.

And that's cool. You know, when you can start creating something for yourself. and then others also like it that's cool that's cool and just as you're talking about it we'll put up pictures of it when it's going so so so so people will will see it when they're watching so it's cool so there is no like particular it's there's no particular black metal band and like kind of pulled you you kind of just followed your own like your own thing well there was not really in a black metal band like dark funeral when we started or Satan's society

people. You know, you had Venom, Celtic Frost and all those bands. Bathory and all that. Yeah, but it was different kind of black metal. Yeah. You know, my generation, where we came in with all the Norwegian bands and some Swedish bands, and we brought something new to the table and we tried to, I think, well, now I speak for myself, mainly but I think without us band who having the idea of creating something new, you know, pushing the boundaries and creating something more extreme that at that time. Then, you know, I think, you know, we just wanted to break the rules and create something more extreme than another band's.

And that, especially in my case, that that was, you know, the whole idea. Yeah They are doing their thing But Yeah like with everything else I'm mentioning now I want to create my own Universe

Under my You know I don't want to follow of anybody else So Dark Friano is like You know Curp me if I'm wrong But you're

You're like the second wave Of like Of the black metal scene Correct Well that's what they Kind of say Say right I don't know

What that really means But I guess you can oh wow yeah so i don't know i was doing like like some uh i'm doing like a little bit of research on like black metal and stuff and uh i was like they didn't so what they say is like you're part of like a second wave but they didn't they didn't include your your band in there it was like they put like you know like mayhem or like uh like those kind of bands you know why why didn't they put dark funeral in there you know yeah well we always been one of those band who don't belong in those kind of

catch risks because we kind of always walked our own way we don't care about things like that. Of course there was bands before us who also kind of part of the second wave but we never been this media you know

an ass-looking kind of band so we always when you see this list from well now I don't read much magazines or anything but when somebody sent it to me all this kind of list we are never there and like well yeah i saw that i was like you know it's funny like i felt i felt dissed for you because i know i know what that's like it's like you you do this

thing for this and this whole thing happens because because because of your thing and then they just you know most of this you're in less follow a trend yes and what's what's trend that we've never been like a trendy band because we always, you know, walked our own path and created our own success if you will. And we don't kind of belong in that trendy world. And I guess that's why we

never, never included in those kind of things. Personally, I don't really care. I feel sorry for the journalists who have so fucking bad history knowledge on the scene and so. Yeah.

So yeah, yeah, I can do much about it. Yeah. Let it be, you know, I do my thing, that's it. Well, now, you know, now we have, like, perspective of age, but back then, like, the mid-90s or did you, you were younger, did you have kind of like that? Why? Like, why in the fuck are they not including us in this shit? No, just care who cares, just keep going? I do.

Well, it's always been like that. It's also how many black metal band have won? several music awards. Not many. We have. There's been no fucking articles or anything about that. That's sick.

If I'm not one of the only black metal you know, songwriter who also got the award as a songwriter. Nothing mentions about that or you know, there's nobody has asked about those kind of things.

But it's, you know, I'm used to it. I don't care. I prove everybody wrong, you know. We kill everybody every night on stage, and that's what it's all about. They can, you know, include us, not include us, whatever. We prove our cell phone on stage and on record, that's what counts. And we got our fans, and that's all we need, you know. That's our family.

Yeah, your fans really stuck by you. It seems like, yeah, you're saying, like, you're never... Dark Fernels seem to never be like this, like, overly hyped trendy band. He's kind of just like this cruising, this cruising up, you know. And then out of, you know, over 30 years later, still here. You know, you guys are at the House of Blues today. It's pretty. We got the fans.

We don't get the press with us. And what do I choose? I choose the fans. Yeah. That's where the energy is. I'm not here to please the press. But of course, you know, as I said, sometimes I feel sorry that most of these journalists have so bad. knowledge on the history. So I don't feel like you should find another job maybe.

Yeah, dude. That's what kind of like what I was, I was like, man, for Dark Furino and you, there's really not much accurate information out there, you know? And I was warning and it kind explains like, you know, when someone else kind of covers your band, like, it's just, that there's such big important piece is missing. Like, you know, that that, you know, that, that happens to us as well. Like, it's just like, and then people just don't, they have nothing to grab onto, you know, which is, you know, to be, uh, uh, and I know that feeling.

So I was kind of, you know, I was kind of hoping to get your story out there. You know, what's like put put, put it out there. Yeah, thanks, ma. You know, yeah, I know, I know how it is, dude. And then, and then people are confused and the genre is confused. And then bands that are, uh, bands that will be coming. up inspired by you don't even know kind of it's just like this weird thing yeah you know well there's many bands who got the credit for things things that we started and created but you know there's

these are things you can't really do much about it's true so uh i don't want to it's true waste energy on that because then would go crazy yeah so i just skip and we're and we're already crazy so we don't want to yeah we don't want to tip over it's true we're already we're already already already kind of shaky you know yeah no it's cool man yeah you don't yeah he's got to let it go yeah i mean some as i said some some stuff you can't affect so let it be don't waste time on it do you have any uh you have any regrets looking back of course but not really regrets yeah well maybe some stuff but i feel like everything is a learning experience sure so i don't really look back i look uh look into the future yeah and uh what happened

in the past you know shit happens sometimes and uh you just got to move on and uh hopefully you know you learn from it and i try to take lesson from from the mistake i realized myself i've done over the years. What were some of the mistakes that you made? Sometimes you do bad decisions, maybe bad business decisions. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sometimes, you know, it just gets some people too many chances until they start draining you from fucking all your energy. You feel like you should have cut it way sooner and, you know, things like that. That many of us go through. So. Yeah. But still going through it. Yeah. Well, learn from. From it, move on.

Don't get stuck in lots of things because that won't do any good. What about musically? What do you mean? Like, musically as far as your records and how these sound. Are you proud at least what you put on tape and that's like out there? If I'm proud of it? Yeah. Yeah, as I said, I'm very confident in what I do.

I'm you know I always satisfied with the when I write the song I never release a song I'm not 100% satisfied it but when it's on recorded then of course I always feel like I could have done that or that better but then I think there's another record to be written and I work on those kind of things to improve that for the next time yeah so like with that there's no reason to get stuck in certain stuff, you gotta move on. And that's the way all is been. Let's see. What am I going to go from here? What is it? Because you moved to Stockholm when you were 18, right? Correct.

Okay. What was it? What was it? Because obviously Sweden and Norway are connected. What is it about that area that's just created. that sound more more specifically the black metal sound what is it about that area i don't know it's you know it's like we're early 80s to now no but it's it's like you know uh the the genres before us you know the speed thrash metal scene and then grind core see and you know there's time eras for all the

you know developing in the music style and uh why it's when it became scandinavia who kind of brought black metal to a new level. I don't know why, but maybe it's in our nature. As I said, you know, we're kind of melancholic and kind of dark inside of us up in the north. So I guess that's in our human nature to, you know, to express ourselves in that way, musically. But black metal, though. like this like the most how do you even say this it's like a dark

not only a dark but emotionally dark style of playing in music like you know what I was like man what is it about that area just created generations of bands you know waves multiple waves 80s and 90s I can't really tell huh but as I said I guess it's something in our mentality up there. What is it about, what is,

what are your religious beliefs? I follow my own. Your own. Your own. That's what I always done. That's why I always walk my own path. I pick inspiration from different sources, of course, like many do, but I've never, it's the same there.

I find inspiration, but I, you know, collect pieces from where I feel fit me. Yeah. Okay. And I shared this through my music. I don't really talk much about it. I know.

I feel like I've never felt like I'm a good speaker. That's why I kind of always felt like I can express myself better through music. Yeah. Unfortunately, we force us so it's become better as speakers when we become older. You know, because we try to communicate our ideas, you know, through our limited speaking language.

You know, it's tough. You know, I'm 38, so I'm still trying to figure out. How do I say my thoughts to people so they actually understand? Yeah, I always felt like I'm really bad at that. That's why I don't really go into certain stuff. It's not that I, you know, I don't want to share those thoughts with me, but I always feel like it's too easy to get misunderstood. Yeah.

And people kind of read their own things. That's why I feel like, listen to my music. Well, it's the same day. People, you know, read that different ways too, but that's an artist thing. Huh. All right. So there was, because we had a band in here called Undeath. And I asked them, like, is there like, because they're like a younger up-accombing band.

and I asked him like, you know, is there still like the, does death metal still have like the satanic stigma to it? And he said no, but we talked a little bit about Chris Barnes and, and, uh, morbid angel. But there's, but then we stopped talking about death. And we're, there's black metal, though. That seems like they're really, that's like what they sing about is what they truly believe. So it's like, it's my, my first time sitting down with someone, you know, like, you know,

you know, I mean, would you consider dark, you know, like a satanic black metal band? Yeah, of course. Okay. I mean, that's what black metal is all about. Exactly. So, so you live it. Yeah.

But I also think, you know, you can not only write about different kind of, well, now I don't write the lyrics, but I think, you know, we brought more of our inside thoughts into the songs nowadays than before. It's not only about hell, Satan. It's more about the dark nature of ourselves and what lies behind all that satanic thoughts we have. Okay.

What do you think, okay, so now that you live it, what do you think, what's the satanic belief system what happens after you die well then you're dead okay so he just belief then dead done yeah there's no there's no afterlife there's no hell

there's no heaven there's no nothing there's no is this a common belief amongst most of black men old no they're like everybody have their own take on things but at the same time

we have common ground that we'll come from but then it's spread out like like in many other kind of genres and stuff

and the common ground seems to be like the satanic theme and the the real thoughts that we all had the all dark thoughts and feelings that seems to be like the common ground and then maybe like your belief system can kind of You kind of carry your own, it seems.

Yeah, well, some people believe in, yeah, well, the different kind of roads people take from the basic stuff. And that's fine with me. I'm not here to, you know, as soon as we have a common ground, we've got to work from there and, you know, built this together. I was just curious. I'm like, what did they think? you know have you ever heard of uh john berk sounds familiar john berk

um i forgot what i think he's christian christian or catholic but uh i was hearing him talking he wrote a book um he was studying uh

people that had near death experiences not not near yet they almost said they died and he basically interviewed people that were clinically dead and uh they all had like a commonality of like visions they

had and there's a commonality of it seems to be like a hell and a heaven well there's also those studies that say there's certain things that happen in your brain yeah and then there's that okay well the idea is scientifically

is when you die your brain does really is like a chemical and who knows that's a they also called a BATI yeah I mean no None of us know. None of us know. And I don't expect anything, you know, what's going to happen after death or if it's happening anything because I don't know.

I like to stay real. And what I know, that's what I can, you know, go by. I don't go around and believe and hope for certain things that nobody can tell. Show me proof of things. then it's another thing. But in this case, there's no actual fiscal proof or anything. There's no fiscal proof. Yeah, it's tough, huh?

Yeah. Have you had this conversation with anybody else? Well, sometimes, yes. But as I said, I like to see evidence when I discuss that. And just people mostly refer to a book or somebody who said this and that. But that's no proof. to me. So prove it, then I'm all good. But until then, I'm not going to believe in things.

Wow. I guess because I was thinking, like, I wonder if he has, like, if he has, like, conversations with fellow black metal bands and see how they, you know. Yeah, but everybody have, they all have their own. Yeah. And it's all good with me. I don't care, you know. we still do this together we're still one scene and I know there's certain people

who don't accept that but I've never it was like that older than when I started there was so much fight between bands in Norway Sweden and Finland Finland too? Because Finland is right Yeah well I guess it was mainly between Norway and Finland

at that time, not too much. Really? And Sweden was stuck in the middle. Yeah, and people want to, like, you should pick side on this. Oh, shit, really? And I've always been like, well, we're one family, we do this together. I'm a friend with all of you, so I'm not going to pick sides. That's cool. And it's always been my philosophy.

So what, there is like, there's this band's beefing or what's the... Yeah. And it's always been like that. And I never participated in it. that it's who was who was who is people many bands

so including some of my old band members too of course of course yeah I felt like I'm more important things to

to do than you know talk shit of backstep people or you know whatever are you

are you a competitive at all with myself okay only with yourself solely only for yourself, like, anything outside, you're like, nothing. There's nothing. No, I rather feel inspired by other bands, you know, achieving goals and stuff.

That's cool. Then I'm more like, if they can, I can. And don't try to stop me. I will prove you. That's cool. It's more like an inspiration when other... Because I know how hard life and how hard is... scene is, you know, being a musician

touring and stuff like that. And we have many things in common, even if many bands play different, you know, genres. But people like talk shit about, yeah, they suck. Well, you know, if they tell a headline band on a big festival, you know, yeah, they suck. Well, you're sitting here. They are headlining this big festival.

So, you know, it's kind of, they can. kind of lose the reality there. Yeah. You don't have to like it, but give them fucking respect. They work their asses off. They order headlining this festival. There's a reason for it. It's true, man.

It's true. So, yeah. So I don't really get jealous of other bands, I'm saying. I feel like more inspired. I don't know why. Maybe it was just me being closed mind. I don't know why I expect someone like you to be like, fuck everybody.

It's of a black metal. You know? I don't know. I expected that like. competitive like you know but yeah but I'm confident I know we we blast everybody away so I don't have to worry about it true but school man and I always been like you know bands and people can talk about this or that prove it I prove it on record I prove it live on stage that's where it counts yeah and lots of empty words I'm not much for that so

Yeah. And as I said, whatever genre you come from, we still have so many things, you know, metal genres, we still have so many things in common. And my generation, I grew up with, you know, black metal as it is from my generation and today or even before, it didn't exist. So I have, like you, you know, both of us, we grew up with all these bands, you know, and we see in the evolution of the metal scene. Yeah. That's why maybe, you know, my generation have easier to accept other forms of, you know, metal styles and bands. Yeah. I don't know.

Or it's maybe it's just me. I don't know. But, you ever heard of a, I was jamming your record. Dude, I was so, I left here last night. I was driving, just driving home. I'm putting dark, dark freedom on. You know, it's nighttime. You know, it's a vibe.

I'm driving a freeway in California. I'm fucking. hot, you know, it's driving. And there was a piece of me that began to get scared. It was like, man, I don't want to crash right now. If I crashed listening to Blackmun, dude, I might go to hell. Such a great future. I was like, oh, my goodness, this is not the time to a crash, dude.

It was really cool. But I was listening and I was curious, you ever heard about a bank called Lorna Shore? Yeah. look at I was like, damn, there's like a lot of this in there. Like the,

just like, like the death core scene kind of like has been taking from like the black metal, you know? Obviously a lot of influence there.

So I was just curious what, if you had any thoughts about that band. I don't think I've listened much to it so I can't really tell. I'm familiar with the band name.

You should check them out. Cool. They're like, they're adding like a whole, you know, as we've, you know, seen throughout the,

the decade We've seen like bands kind of be influenced by things to take it in a whole other direction. You know, it is kind of crazy to see how far a band has taken, if you go from like dark funeral to like that era to like what happened with mayhem to now, where it's at now. It's just, it's fucking, it's bizarre. It is, it is crazy man. So I was just curious what if you knew about about that band or not, but you should check them out. Yeah, well as I said, I probably heard some songs. I don't know, but the band name is familiar.

That's why I can't tell a certain song or anything. Yeah, cool. Well, since you were there, I was curious. Like, it was, like, how did, like, I also noticed that a lot of people in the metal scene, more so, like, the black metal scene, don't really talk about, like, the mayhem stuff. Is there, like, a reason for that?

Because I was just curious about it because I'm like, was what was the impact like for people that were actually there and bands that were coming up at that time? Because Darfino was, came out in 93. And then, rest and peace dead, he committed suicide in 91. So that, I mean, I could only imagine, like, the ripple effect of that area and the whole genre. I was just curious how, and it's crazy because your band started after that. I was just kind of curious, like, what that was like. Well, at that time there was no internet.

So you were writing handwritten letters to and got the news that way. You got the news through a handwritten letter? Yeah, that's how we communicated back in the day with the Finnish black metal bands and Norwegian black metal bands. You tape trade at demos and stay in context through handwritten letters. And then advanced to type machine. So yeah, that's how we got the news on what was going on, and you share what was going on in Sweden. That's how we communicated and informed each other.

So you found out via letter. Yeah. What did you think? But I didn't have any reason or background, you know. Just found out that erroneous was killed. But then, of course, it came in the newspaper. person on the national TV and stuff like that

I guess it was well now I didn't know any of those guys so I don't know really what was going on other things that I heard but of course it's I guess it was a shock for everybody that it went that way but it

during that time there was a lots of you know threats and stuff going on between certain bands. Threats? Yeah, yeah. What kind of threats? Some people got a cat hanged on the door, you know, with a spike and things like that.

Are you serious? Yeah, yeah, there was lots of crazy things going on. But as I said, I was friends with everybody and they want to pick, you know, me and Darkfielan to pick side. But we said, you know, we're friends with everybody. So we're not going to pick size. And we don't, you know, we're going to participate in that or that, you know. We focus on other things.

Wow. Well, it's cool that you weren't, it's funny because whenever something happens, people always want you to choose sides all the time. It's like, I don't have to choose a side, you know. No, and I felt that I have to. Especially when, you know, when you have other, you know, friends fighting. Friends and friends? Yeah.

It's like, where should I pick side? I'm a friend with both of you, so. So don't just involve me. You know, deal with it and move on. People were probably talking shit like via letter, right? Of course. When you actually sit there and talk shit to someone, that's dope. And mail it.

And even through signs. That's how things were, you know. Signs? Signs, like magazines. Oh, yeah, yeah. But underground scenes. you know people backstemming each other through interviews and stuff like that too so oh shit now it's more direct now it's all yeah yeah yeah but then it took like two weeks

until a match that's got through oh dude that is different different times for sure well also i brought up um i brought up dead also because wasn't they obviously different people have different opinions but he seemed to get like the one of the pioneers of the corpse paint am i wrong there there was some uh even in the sixties uh there was some yeah yeah who where did the corpse paint really come from i really don't know but i know now i can remember some this is some famous uh musicians i've seen video clips from it i think it was in the 60s really they were wearing coarse paint who was it it like a I can't remember who it was shit but I've seen it on video and I was like well I'm not sure if they called it coarse paint at that

time but that's the first time I saw anybody even you know doing something in that that style so who started with it I can't really tell it's different things so also with black metal different, you know, some bands that there was Demon who mentioned they were playing black metal as the first time. Then some people say

some other bands. To me, it doesn't really Yeah. It is what it is, you know. Of course, whoever, you know, came up with those things should be credit for it. Of course, but I haven't

really investigated. so far. Yeah, I wonder where he got it from. Why did you start wearing coarse paint? 94. Yeah, why? I don't know, it's that's, you know, you know, the whole idea from the beginning from our side and I guess my generation was to

kind of paint and reinforce some kind of inner demon through the paint. Yeah. So that's what we felt like. doing. It suited the band and what we're doing. You're trying to get what was inside out. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get fucking, let's get fucking dark, dude. I need to get this out to the, you know, from my inside. Dude, I'm, yeah, I'm wondering a lot. It's cool, man. Thank you for that.

How's the, as I said, you know, this is my, you know, people have different ideas on things. so yeah what's uh what like what started on what was because black metal recordings became a thing right like they like this like this sound a certain way was like what like why why that happened was i think my generation wanted to create something new yeah like a different generation before us they also wanted to create something new That's why you have the evolution of metal. Different generation come in with their own take on things. And our generation, you know, the generation before us was doing the death metal,

you know, bring that to the table. Then we came in and wanted to do something different. Yeah. Something more darker and, you know, with a different idea behind the music. I don't know. for us this was like yeah we want to create something different something more extreme and darker than anything else out there whether we were going to succeed or not but that was where our mindset were and that's what we tried to do yeah i uh i uh i didn't know what to expect when i started listening to

your records because you just like just like there's the there's a stigma of like okay i if i listen a black mom and band know it's going to sound like they're in a fucking forest or something you know like but i put you guys on it always sounds great just like like like the quality is there you know yeah i always felt even since the first mini CD uh we released for if i go into the studio i want to have a good sound otherwise why should i spend a loss of money and time on yeah uh but it's also it fits our amusement Yeah. Convierte your passion in a

business with Shopify and bathe records of with the form of with a better conversion of the world. Has you heard well? The best

conversion of the world. The incredible system of the market and you get the website on your

social and the social and in any place. That is music for your ears. No,

you know your business will your success with Shopify. Empeer your period

in shopify.s bar records. It requires a good production. Yeah, it just, it just, yeah, you really need it, it has to sound good. Yeah, and if you can make it dark, even an extreme, really good production, then on top of the game.

That's why we are here. Yeah, I was listening to Uncham Our Soul. Like, you really nailed it, like the, like the, it was like a classic, but not too polished. It's, it's such a hard, hard line to hit, man and like you want to get two things into one thing it's tough but but you uh but you got it uh that was one of the songs that wasn't supposed to end up on the record i wrote it in a week it just really came uh we're at were you home just jamming yeah my home studio

so i'm glad for it because it turned out to be a really big hit for us but uh wow it was one for me it takes time for me to write the song because i'm really picky with it's got to be if there's one note in a melody or something that really doesn't click in my head yeah then i have to figure it out and sometimes it goes fast sometimes not but uh that i'm saying my soul is just one of the few songs that just happened uh i guess that's why it turned out so good because it just flowed out. Yeah, it just came very fast and natural, very honest. No really thoughts behind.

Yeah, well, of course, thoughts behind it, but, you know, not things that made you get stuck. It just was an easy flow. Sometimes you like that, honey. They just flow out. You're like, where do that come from? Yeah, sometimes I'm like, oh, how could that happen? Because whenever I write songs, it's kind of weird.

I start writing the end of the song most of the time. Yeah. And I write the songs backwards. Yeah. But this one I wrote from the beginning to the end, basically. In one sit down? Mm. Mm?

In one sit down? No, but as I say, it took me maybe one week. Oh, yeah, yeah. Usually it takes, can take a couple of months to... A couple months? Until I'm really satisfied with the song. shit you're a you're a perfectionist yeah I work on things until I feel that red line from beginning to the end until until you feel dead it's like I can't I

put my entire fucking soul into this song yeah but sometimes you just gotta let it go it is done you know I learn how to be easier on myself and just okay it's done instead of getting too stuck. Like in the early days, I could get stuck and, you know, I was like, how should I finish this? Now I kind of worked with myself a little bit. What about, what about opening gates? That was a band I thought, you know, in the lineup at that time. Yeah.

It was me, Blackbone and them girls, basically. So, well, me and Blackmun wrote the music, I think the Amgroves wrote the lyric. Nice. So, yeah, we were sitting in the basement, day and night, practicing guitar, writing music. Day night. Yeah. I had a pillow and a sleeping bag with me. That's cool, man.

And we stayed on a hard concrete floor. Yeah, that's sick, dude. That's sick, dude. At least you had a sleeping floor. bag. Yeah, well, it was a long way to get home. It was some travel and the metro didn't go all the night. So it's better to stay there and just keep on writing. We guys drinking or no? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of port at that time. Fuck yeah. In basement? Come on, man. That's sick. Writing blackmail in the basement partying? Come on, dude. That's sick. Cool. So it's more like a

clap like this is in room jamming like just noise yeah until until something hits yeah so that's oh that's cool let's fucking work on that thing or that or that sucks let's try something else yeah that's basically how we worked and we had um i remember i brought this uh tape recorder with a small kind of you know i don't like a clip microphone we hanged it in the in the ceiling and and recorded nice and then you were home listening to it in a tape player try to figure out how to to work on the song and the next rehearsal you continue and I have many of those tapes left you did yeah I've saved I have lots of boxes with we ever put them out I don't know I don't think so I don't know how

the quality of it either because they haven't listened to that in 30 years been 30th dude like a fucking like because you just put out like a reissue right yeah yeah oh man you you could put up like some cassette demos that'd be sick it'll probably it'll probably take you on a weird journey if like to like to read listen to try to find those yeah it's gonna be a lot of hard work to go through what would be able to use and not uh i mean the sound quality is quite horrible but i guess some fans would really like that i'm saying I guess. It's tough because there's something that you hear

and the fan hears something completely different. Yeah. You know? I think people would really appreciate that, man. Just tape demos. I never even thought about it until now. Yeah, I have all those boxes with cassette tapes. Dude, that's history, man.

That's literally history. 30-year-old cassette tapes? But the fact that even... I think that the fact that even still have it says something. well it's been in the box forever in the basement basically so no interest in 30 years no interest to go in that box and start jamming the tape no no wow no but I'm not much to look into the past yeah just like you're so forward-thinking guy yeah I gotta look into the future mm-hmm I say man I gotta go to planet fitness right now I can't be listening to demo tapes right now no more than I got more important things to do than trying to relieve my life. It's cool, man. How's, yeah, it's beginning that.

Are you going to plant fitness now? Not today. Today is kind of busy day. Yeah. Lots of meetings, interviews and stuff like that. Cool. We'll see you tomorrow or we have, I think we've got one or two more shows than a day off. Nice.

It's definitely planned fitness. Cool. So we see. Dude, what kind of workouts are you doing in there? At the moment, I can only do cardio. Okay. And then use the massage, which is the black massage at the fitness. Now, I have inflammation, like a tennis elbow in my arm.

Really? Yeah. Oh, shit. So I'm not allowed to lift anything, basically, other than a cup of coffee. How does that affect your plane? I kind of raised the guitar a little bit so I don't have to stretch out the arm too much. You serious? Yeah, so that makes me...

Oh, that's good in a way because then I get to practice on smaller movements when I play. It helps me to become a better guitar player at the same time. But after the show, I have this liniment that burns before I go on stage. that kind of heat up this cream so I kind of put both my arms so when I got up on stage both my arm kind of burn like hell

and then when I get off the stage I take this ice cream to call it down ice cream no ice cream ice yell yeah icy hot

yeah right right okay cool I was like ice cream yeah I like that I like that I like that Yeah, so it's... That's cool. But that's what you gotta do.

I mean, it works okay, but it sucks too. But it's getting a little bit better. How do you get that? I don't know. It started the first festival we did this summer in Poland. Oh, it's recent. Yeah. That sucks, dude.

And after that show, the day after, and I was like, oh, fuck, I got pain in my arm. Then I went down, you know, to help out. carry the bags and all the cases to the shuttle before we left to the airport and I just picked up one case and I was like it felt like my arm was going to you know get you know it was so fucking much pain and it kind of killed my my strange in it kind of like a hit and I couldn't even move it I couldn't lift it. It's just so much pain and no strength.

So before the store, I went to a lot of shockwave therapy treatment. And I guess it helped because it's much better now than it was like one months ago. Because then it was real bad.

It's just a few months ago. Yeah. Fuck. Were you? And my problem, I don't have patients to get this fixed. I don't have time for it. That's why I'm really strict. I don't lift anything because if I keep on lifting stuff,

it's just going to take longer until I'm back okay. So I try to be really careful at the moment. So I do cardio. I need cardio anyway, so it's just good for me. Good, yeah. It gets your blood flowing, it gets you sweating. You know, it burns off that donut you had the night before. Exactly.

Yeah, which is very important. You don't want to be out there playing black metal fat. You don't want that. Yeah, well, now I'm in a bad shape. I used to be in better shape. But I had lots of injuries and two surgeries and... Two surgeries? Yeah, I had two horny surgeries after each other.

And so it takes time to get back. What was that from? I just... Lifting cabs? I don't know. It just happened. And twice in a row is like... I've been on tour.

That's why some tours I've just been standing there because I just got out of surgery. Oh, fuck. I was on stage three weeks after. Three weeks? Yeah. Yo, let's go. Yeah, I was like, I can't cancel this tour.

I just got to get through this. So. What tour was it? Maybe it was the U.S. tour. Actually, the last one. Oh, with the 200 stab wounds? Yeah. Then the one before.

You know, I had hernia, I did surgery between the tours. Then I get on another extra. and I had a new fucking bigger hernia and I went on tour all in pain and then I did surgery and then back on tour again and it was kind of difficult I came with a list to the hospital

like okay here's my tour schedule I have these days when you got to fit me in for the surgery because I got to go on tour they were like dude that's not going to happen I was like well you got to make it happen I got to go on tour and I was so lucky

a day, it managed to squeeze me in. But the good thing, I don't drink, I don't throw any tobacco, so I could do on last minute call. Because my body's clean for surgery anyway, so I guess that also helped me, like I was the perfect patience

to do those last minute, you know, cancellations time and just jump in and do the surgery. But it was tough, you know, three weeks after the last surgery, I was on stage. And I could I could hardly move my body because I was kind of stiff. Oh, fuck.

Yeah. And, you know, to get back in shape after all those, you know, injures and stuff, it takes time. But I'm going to keep on, you know, working on it. What's the normal, like, healing time after surgery like that? To be honest, I don't know. Darius has not sound like an optimal. And plus, you're flying. Yeah.

All right. Oh. Yeah, well, I had to, after the last one, I had to do business so I could lay down. Because I couldn't really sit. So I did business class over here to the U.S. So I could lay down in the bed. Is that how you got that cup of coffee?

Someone at the airport made you a cup of coffee with the dark funeral logo on it, right? Yeah, that was in Mexico City, I believe. Really? In the lounge. we were sitting there where the layover the flight was delayed so we were just sitting there

watching movies in the lounge and two of the staff people came with the you know coffee were like

oh we're big fans of you so here's some coffee and we were like what the fuck's going on so that was a nice surprise but we had been we had been flying so that was the

third time in that lounge in one week. Oh shit. We had been flying connecting connecting over Mexico City that week. So there was a third time in a week we're in the same lounge.

So I guess they had looked us up and figure out who we were. But it was a nice guess you're from that. That's cool, man. It's cool. Yeah. So they treated us really well. They got those golf cars, drove us to the gate

and shit like that. Dope. So we got royal treatment. Man, this. So yeah, we're going to put a picture of it when we're talking about. Yeah, but someone literally put your logo in the coffee. Yeah. I never got that.

That's sick. First time for everything. I wonder how they did that. Apparently, they have machines, like a 3-D machine or something. Oh, okay. They can do that. So they can do pretty much anything. Man.

But still, I guess they went on the internet. downloaded the logo, put it in the machine and made coffee for us. Yeah, that's fucking sick. Very nice treat for sure. Well, that's a goal that I'm going to work towards. You haven't succeeded until you have your own log and a coffee cup.

Oh my gosh. You know you made it. That's when you know. How's the Toro been with Aguar? We've only done, was it two shows? It's only been two shows, right? Yeah. But it's been great.

These two shows have been very interesting. We had no idea how the crowd going to react on us. Really? But even the first show, I was really surprised. You know, the whole crowd got into us right away. But it's kind of weird to play. I never played for a crowd in white t-shirts. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So everybody's wearing white t-shirts. I forgot about that. That's a weird feeling, you know. We've never done that before. That's cool. But the crowd seems to really like it. And that's cool. I heard before, you know,

yeah, the world's crowd is real open-minded. They like metal, so they're probably going to get into you guys. I was like, I will see. I mean, we're going to do our thing anyway. Of course. But it was a glass of price that we really got great feedback. so so and uh i watched a little bit on uh gore the first night and uh cool yeah it's crazy shit i liked it that's dope and i talked a little bit with some of the guys so i think it's gonna be a

great run they seems to be really cool people it's awesome man those those guys have been through a lot yeah especially at dirks mike dirks guys have been through a lot man with uh yes so it's cool to see them keep on keep on keeping on you know so I have one more question for you decided it kind of goes back to the belief system what do you think riffs come from I always said I'll look into myself and you know basically let my inner demon speak that's it it's you it's my inner darkness that needs to come out it's uh it's um I keep telling this to to my lady is like if people only knew truly knew where

songs and rips come from because people get out people kind of get shocked from like someone's like an asshole I'm like do you know what writes those songs do you know where that comes from it's not like we're not thinking about heaven or anything it's just like there's like this you know

I'm trying to coin a term is put your demons in it yeah but it's something I learned over the years is people write music for different proposals and True. Different ways.

I can only speak for myself, and that's what I do. So it's like just conscious, this, boom, demons. Yeah. Just follow your own inner demons, and it's going to be all right. I think there's a little bit of black men on all of us. I think that's what I'm gathering here. Well, the problem is most people are afraid of the inner demons and try to do. That's why they go to church.

True. I try to become friends. with them and take my strange from it. There's always been what I do instead of letting it tear me down. Yeah. Do you have any friends that go to church?

I can't really tell, maybe. Maybe. I was just curious because I was just curious a kind of conversation you would have with them. It's not like, well, I'll leave my own little black

box. I don't really hang. Black box. I'm not one of the... I'm not those guys who are out in the bar. I don't drink. I usually don't go out to the bar. It's cool. Hang around with people. I feel kind of good just being myself

alone. But I don't mind hanging out with people. I like having friends of course and I have so many good friends and also you know, associates. So my world is very big, but I live in a small box anyway when I'm home. It's cool.

You sound open-minded. Unfortunately, people are really close-minded to talk anything that involves money, politics, or religion. Like, it's really hard to talk to, you know, about religious beliefs or spiritual beliefs of people. Because they have that and that's just, that's what they are. And they won't hear anyone else out. But still, you know, there's so many things that keep private, of course. Sure. So I still have my limit and boundaries where I want to share with me.

I don't want to be like an open book to the rest of the world. I want to have a private life too. Of course. So it's very important. But I used to say, you know, you get most of it from me through the music. That's where you get to know me the best. Mm-hmm. Were there any bands that, are there any?

bands that really showed you more support than others especially throughout the years because we're talking earlier how like you know it seems like a lot of people weren't talking about dark ferno in a way that that that that they should to really include you in that second wave was any bands that really kind of stuck up for for you guys i think we have so much good support from smaller and bigger bands yeah within the scene there's no issues it's smaller in the press um okay uh yeah I feel like you know when we get out there meets a lot of bigger bands or we have lots of respect when we show up so and those people know where we come from and who we are yeah that's not the issue it's more like the media sure uh will go by the trend instead of the real history I guess yeah so it's uh so like

the bands will come up to you hey a dark fur it's like one of our it I mean if you would know all the phone numbers big musicians I have my phone that's cool man fuck yeah you'll be very surprised so I that's what I feel I don't need to prove myself for the media or anything I'm confident I don't know where I am and who we are so that's why I don't need to worry about those kind of things mm-hmm well it's one thing I learned from you you're you're your own guy it's cool it's very uh refreshing you know because I'm I live here. I live in California,

so I'm like, I'm like in the middle of it. You know, I'm like you. Like, there's like two things. I have like the honest people in the music industry.

I have like the other people I look out for. You know, it's like you're always on this, you're this middle line of being, being yourself. You don't want to go to either side, you know. No, but I think,

you know, I am who I'm not going to hide myself. You know, either like me or don't. And, you know, I can't, you know yeah yeah do much about it but uh i think most of the people who meet me uh just have a

good feeling yeah it's good man that's good and people who haven't met me have you know made up their own kind of imagination who i am and yeah they maybe hate me yeah yeah yeah it's cool uh two more things would you guys you have anything coming up or that that you want to put out there uh Well, we were doing this tour. We go home for a month. We got a European tour. And that's the first headline tour we're doing Europe in eight years. Eight years?

Nice. Okay. So this time we... It's all in. So it's the first time we're going to go big on production and all that kind of stuff. Nice. So I'm working on that. And we're going to keep on working on that.

And I have so many ideas that I want to bring on that tour. So we'll see what we'll stop. But it's going to be the biggest tour we've done in Europe, production-wise, ever. Fuck, yeah. 30 years later, still. Yep, we're bringing hell on stage. Oh, shit. I'm fucking scared, like last night, dude.

Oh, my goodness. Well, last thing. Obviously, we're closing the podcast. Is there anything you want, anything on your mind, anything that I might have missed, anything you want out there? Not really. I don't know. It's cool. you know just thanks for having me on uh for show my interest I'm honored you know

to be a transparent you know I didn't really know much about black metal so I was just really curious I was a very curious guy today yeah but I also said I guess you know this is my own thoughts and uh as I always worked my own way I don't maybe not everybody have the same ideas that I have but that's life that's probably what people but that's how you get long that's how you get respect long term

you know even you're an asshole I think people will just eventually just respect you just for being you because not many people not many humans

follow their own thing you know or have their own vision or are willing to or stubborn enough to stick with their their own black box

you know yeah so it's cool mad to respect and I'm on I wanted to have the conversation with you. Thank you, all right. All right, everyone, check out the tour, European tour coming out.

What's the month? When is the tour going to happen? January. January, okay. In Europe. Okay, so this would definitely be out by then, so we'll put the dates up in... Yeah, I don't really know the dates myself in my head, but I think we start January the 3rd.

And we go out with the Flash Guard Apocalypse. Oh, great. X-DU and some other band that I never heard of. But it's going to be interesting. It's a great bill, so... Hell yeah. It's going to be killer tour. Going to be sick.

Well, again, thank you and have fun tonight. Thanks, man. All right, everyone. That's it. Later. Talk for your own.