Garza Podcast - 15: Doc Coyle | BAD WOLVES, Ex-GOD FORBID

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

Doc Coyle is the guitar player for Bad Wolves, Ex-God Forbid, and host of The Ex-Man Podcast. We talk about evolving in the music industry, superhero movies, and more. SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB

And our guest today is a guitar player for Bad Wolves and Ex-Garper Bid. He's also the host of the X-Man podcast, which is excellent. So go check it out. So it's a real pleasure to finally sit down and chat with him. He's very intelligent and did a great job of carrying this conversation, which mortified to me. But if you're listening or watching this, I really hope that you feel like you're in the same room during this conversation. So that's what I'm trying to convey through the mics and the cameras here. So anyway, hope you enjoy.

Let's get into it. Please welcome. Dot coil. What's up? What's up, man? How are you? I'm doing all right. Doing all right.

Down in, where are we in Corona? Corona, California. Hometown. I know. This is where the magic happens, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah, the first time I saw you was down the street. I'm not sure what year was.

Maybe 2004. or three, God forbid was playing Showcase. It's down the street here. And I believe that was the first show, I could be wrong, that the first show Mark came out and saw us at. But you guys were playing, right? You were opening up for us. Yeah, yeah, we were opening up for you guys,

and we were stoked. And I think that was the first time Mark saw us. So you kind of, you kind of brought us together. Which show? Because we played there a few times. I mean, we did the show, I think was us, Caliban, it dies today, full-blown chaos. And then there was another one before that with us and remembering never.

That's it. Okay, that one. Memory never. What year was that? I want to say 2006, 2007, something like that. It all starts to blend together. It does. It might even be 2005.

But I don't know, I feel like a lot of these, when you're not from an area and then you go there and you play there, you don't really have a concept of where things are. I was like, oh, we're playing SoCal somewhere. So I didn't know what Corona was in relation to L.A. or any of this stuff. But places like that, we seem to, people seem to be into it. So we were very happy to just have anyone show up and be down with our band at that time. It's cool. Yeah. It was definitely before 2006. I want to see it was 04. Yeah, you know what? You're probably. You're probably right. What's 16, 16, 17 years ago, I want to say.

That's right. Don't let the numbers scare you, all right? That's us. We're getting old, man. No, no. I realize that the older numbers make you younger. It makes you more experienced. Yeah, well, I just think it gives you more perspective on A, how quickly time seems to

move, or kind of vice versa. things that go move fast, but it also, it feels like forever ago, but it also feels like yesterday. And it's a very strange phenomenon. And I think one of the kind of fallacies about being a young person is, I don't know, just thinking that things will just be that way forever. And they just won't. And it's just, and accepting that and knowing, hey, things are going to change constantly. And that's what life is going to keep throwing at you.

to think things were cyclical. I'm like, nope, it's just one road with different wines and keeps changing, you know? Yeah, things keep changing. And throughout your career, you definitely had a lot of wines. A lot of, uh...

I'm still, I'm still weaving. Still weaving. You're still weaving, dude. But I was just thinking about this. You've done a great job at, no matter what was throwing at you, you really adapt very well. And actually, uh, thriving it,

It seems. Yeah, I mean, I would say for the, for the most part, though, a lot of these things have been self-imposed. You know, it's like, I quit, God forbid. And so when you make an active decision, it allows you kind of that ability to accept whatever challenges are kind of going to deal with it. As opposed to like, you're in a band and it breaks up or you're doing something and something kind of sideswipes you. I decided to move to California to L.A. without much of a plan. And, you know, so I think when you take that kind of ownership over your destiny to some degree, you can really embrace challenges.

I think sometimes, you know, during the course of God forbid's career, when maybe a certain thing wouldn't go our way and you had expectations, thing A was going to happen, but thing B happened, and that lack of experience and lack of perspective is difficult to deal with. But I think, I don't know, I feel like for the most part, it's been, I've had an active, I've been an active participant in making things happen. True. You put in the work, you know, behind, behind the scenes.

Yeah, I think that's a little overblown, though, because I'm like, I feel like most people work hard. I mean, there's, I mean, we can all. I'll probably look at some of the, like, when we were coming up, right, and the local bands that were peers with us where, yeah, you could see, like, you guys got to another level because you were willing to go to a certain level that other people weren't. You were this level of dedication, right? Yeah.

And I think that's easy to see, but once you get to a certain level, I do think a lot of people are working hard. I think a lot of it is just about, I don't know, the older I get, the more I start to think, I'm just like, maybe it is just luck. maybe it is right place, right time because I see, especially like in this time period where so many people are

like you, right, they're creating content, they're on TikTok, they're on YouTube, they're on Twitch, everyone's really taking their career in their own hands. And I see people, and every day I'm like, man, I'm not hustling like that guy, like that girl, they're grinding. And it's inspirational, but at the same time

it's also like, you better have what it takes or this whole thing will kind of pass you by. Totally. It's funny how we always feel that I'm not doing enough, no matter what you do. And then you always feel that you're not hustling because you have that natural feel of like, I'm not doing enough because you see this person's late there.

But we forget we're doing a lot. Especially for me, I could be an outsider telling you, from my perspective, my man, Doc's doing a lot. He's doing a lot. And that inspires me. But to you, it probably seems like you're not doing enough, which is, I think, a very healthy way to view with that. Well, I think social media is a great way to kind of advertise what you're doing

and maybe look like you're doing more. But of course, and we've both been involved with this. Well, let's say you're working on a record, right? Yeah. But maybe that process isn't public. Like the band has maybe made a decision where it's like, we're not going to have a, you know, a live stream every day. or we're not going to post pictures from rehearsal

to the studio every day. So people don't really know what's happening. And I, in that many ways, it's kind of, you know, like, you know, in the Arctic. You know, there's like, you know, what those things called? Iceberg. That's what it's called. Like the lettuce.

It's like an iceberg where people only see the top, but underneath it, there's a lot going on. So much going on. But there were things like when I first moved to L.A. where I wasn't, I was working on stuff, but I wasn't doing a ton of stuff. So anytime I did anything cool, I would portray it in a way on social media to make it look like, I'm doing this and I'm doing that.

And I think there is a little trickery there, I think, beyond just what I'm doing to kind of, you have to kind of sell yourself at large. Hey, I'm out there. I'm doing things. I'm making things happen. Yeah. You know what? I wasn't planning to ask you this until like I were in a conversation. But since we're on it, what's your take on?

sacrifice versus hustle. Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because I've been going through some difficult times of my life recently in terms of trying to mature, right, and see if I can move to the next phase of life, whatever that is, and maybe that's buying a house or having children or getting married to these things. And I have so much, I have a difficult time grasping with those things. things because to me it's like if you you want to make it you can't worry about any of that shit you have to like my whole life it's been no it's just about the band it's just about

doing these things and I don't know to to some degree I think maybe a piece of that ambition has made almost like made me a little bit dysfunctional to like accept normal things like I think for a lot of people those are the things that they want and for me in in many ways they scare me. Because it's like, well, if I do that, then I can't do this. And maybe that's not true, but somewhere deep, deep down inside.

So I think, I guess what I'm saying is I think to get to a lot of these places, it's, I equate it with sacrifice. But I don't know, but that sacrifice, I don't know, like it's,

I guess what someone else's dream is is someone else's nightmare. And so, So I don't know if I'm just institutionalized in a sense by this lifestyle where it's like, because this, it's like, I feel like I know how to do this. And so when I'm working on this stuff, I'm working on music, or I'm working on my podcast or I'm writing songs or just being creative, it feels like this is where I'm comfortable. This is where I'm home. And then it's in the normal world, it's like, hey, we got to go deal with taxes. We got to go to the DMV.

Like all that stuff feels like, I don't even want to deal with any of this. Can I just go back in the cave and work and, you know what I'm saying? Like, like I feel detached from a lot of normal day-to-day things that, I don't know, it's a tough thing kind of psychologically that I'm trying to work through right now, you know? Yeah. Yeah, trying to balance like, you know, what, especially what, you know, in our age and when you hit 30s, you start thinking about like the house.

How do you? 35. 35, all right. Yeah. Young buff, baby. Yeah. I just turned 40. Adid boy.

That's right. You know, I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about 45, you know. It's a difficult age because then you can't help but think about those things. Yeah, 35 is a tough one because I think you're right in between that idea of what you there's a lot of societal expectation oh at this age I should be doing this

at this age I should have this and because like you said the sacrifices we make instead of you know maybe doing a normal job or doing these things you and I we were on the road we were grinding and when you do that

and you're trying to make the next best record or do the best show you have tunnel vision yeah you do and you don't see any of this other stuff And then all sudden, you hit that age of 30.

You hit that. And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, shit. Like, what, what, what, what happened? Like, all this stuff passed me by. And for me, at least, I don't want to put that on you. But for me, I feel like I'm always playing catch up or I'm always a little bit behind of what, you know, that kind of arrested development thing. I've come to grips with it. Like, I don't beat myself up over it.

Or I don't go like, well, I suck because of this or I'm inadequate because of this. but people around you might feel like maybe you're not up to snuff. And that kind of external pressure can be difficult to deal with, especially if you care about those people and you care about what they think of you. Oh, okay. So maybe like the external pressure is coming from people that you actually value their opinion. Of course. Well, I think through life we have to be able to take constructive criticism and say,

okay am I being stubborn right like am I just being stuck in my ways or am I or my instincts good you know and you constantly have to kind of look inward and be

self-reflective and because if you start from that point of I'm always right I got to figure it out then I think that's you're going to run a lot of trouble there so you constantly even if maybe you are right you at least have to go through the work of the thought process or bouncing off the idea of friends and hey what do you think

about this am i being am i a weirdo and sometimes your friends go yeah you're being a fucking weirdo get your shit together you know sometimes it's like those just grow up moments right yeah yeah yeah those yeah those are tough just like you were just saying like you know oh i got to do my taxes i got to do all these things i feel still very foreign to you i mean it's not foreign but it's it's through gritted teeth. Yeah. You know, like, no, what I hate, my least favorite things in the world to do is like,

you know when you have to just deal with some things, right? Maybe it's like, call on the doctor or get dealing with your car. And you know, you're going to have to go call up a number, deal with like an automated system, wait on hold, and, like, that is hell to me. the idea of like

press this number press one if you'd like to talk to this can you say what your problem is like that's hell for me and when you know you have 15 things like that to do it's like I just I'm like is this what normal life is is this what people do I'm like no

I can't and paperwork once you're in a band and you're on a road and you're right you get to not fill out paperwork for a while unless sometimes if you don't have a tour manager you got to go fill out that that you know that form when you get the check or something. But other than that, you kind of get away from paperwork.

So that's the thing. You get back to filling out a lot of paperwork. You're just like, man, this is real life. And it's not always fun. Yeah. But even though there's a we get opinions from people that actually truly care about us and have your best interest in mind, do you think even what you get with age too? Like, is what they're saying 100% true? And do you put pressure on yourself? Yeah, I mean, I mean, clearly it's if you have people close to friends, family, if you value their opinion and you respect what they have to say, then you have to take it to heart. And like I said, there's sometimes where you're going to do the work, you'll think about it and go, no, I think my instincts were correct here and you have to figure out that. And I'd say as I get older, people need to understand the difference that some things are not right or wrong. they're just different.

Right? Your way, my way, doesn't, we don't have to be, you're right, or sometimes some things are, hey, maybe you're 60% right, I'm 40% wrong. Or if I'm,

or you're 60% right, I'm 40% right. But we're 55, 45, or whatever, where we both have a point, you know, but sometimes you just have to go, okay, more than likely, I'm not going to convince you,

you're not going to convince me, and you just got a, all right, agree to discus, degree and move on to the next thing. But I think some people, the prism with which they look at the world is through of there are the good guys over here and the bad guys over here. And clearly I'm a good guy because I'm me.

And I think that I can really make navigating human relationships and comprehending some of these things. I think it can make a lot of that really difficult. It is, huh? Yeah, of course. But it's something I think about all the time, right? I always try to, in a sense, maybe from like a social or political standpoint, for example, if there's someone I disagree with, I try to understand at least where they're coming from.

Yeah, it's huge. So, yeah, I'm just, listen, I think the best thing about times when maybe you're having a rough goal of it or whatever, those are the times when you kind of can grow the most, you learn the most and go, hey, I'm kind of fucking up right now. So maybe let me read this book about why I'm fucking up. Yeah. Right?

So those are, for me, have been some of the best times to reflect. Yeah. It sounds like you're taking ownership. Listen, I'm trying. Try. I don't want to be the humble brat guy, the guy that's like got to figure it out. Because I've, you know, in the last year I've lost both my parents, you know, battles gone through the singer switch thing.

Yeah. And everything that has to do with COVID and lockdown and so many things, right? It's been a very, very challenging period of time. But I always say, whatever I'm going through, whether you're going through, There's always someone who's dealing with a lot worse circumstances, and you just got to get through it. You know, and it's, listen, I've been, it's been rough for me lately, mentally, emotionally, but that's okay. But it's not about sitting there. I think the worst thing we can do is sitting there pretending like we got it all figured out.

I'm fine. I'm good. But, you know, I mean, dudes, a lot of us tend to do that, right? We all need to find healthy ways to express our lack of being, of being perfectly okay at any given time. So that's something I'm trying to figure out, you know, as well and work through that, be able to say, hey, I'm not doing the best right now, but even that's okay.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, you're right. When you try to put like the face on that you're right when you're not, you learn that with age. It's like, oh, that's not the way to do it. No, because it always, it's whack-a-mole, right?

You shove it down here, it pops up over here. It'll manifest somewhere else, right? Of course. It all, you know, it's a cliche, but either you deal with your shit or your shit deals with you one way or another. Yeah. At some point, you know, it could be the same day or a year after. It's usually towards the people that you care about the most. Exactly.

Yeah. Could be family, band members. Oh, listen, it's, it, and that's something, you know, with Badwell, something we've been dealing with in terms of through a time of adversity figuring out how to balance and understand each other's particular set of issues or maybe unresolved crap and find ways to deal with that in a healthy way say hey man let me if you got hey maybe you have some issue with me let's talk about it let's get through let's get ahead of it don't wait for it to blow up.

You know? Because just and just because you're involved in a situation that is a big change, right? Like big life changes are where stress, the biggest stress comes from, you know, moving. Yeah. Losing a loved one, a breakup, losing a job, things like, you know, all these kinds of things are paradigm shifting. And it takes us, we're creatures of comfort and it takes us time to readjust to new normal. You know, you've seen that with the pandemic.

Just people transitioning from, hey, I live my life this way every day for my whole life. And all of a sudden, I'm told don't leave the house. I'm told don't hang out my friends. I'm told to wear this mask. And that drove people crazy. Yeah. And in many ways, understandably so. Now we're dealing with the reverse where now it's take off your mask.

Go hang out friends. Be normal. And people are so used to the one thing. that they're having a difficult time kind of uncoupling from habits. And so just any kind of life-changing evolutions, and it takes us a while to adjust. So we have to give ourselves kind of room to get ready. Yeah, room and time.

Exactly. You know. Yeah, man, you had a rough year. It's just sucks when everything kind of happens at once. I mean, it wasn't all at once. It was consistent. Within a year, it's pretty. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. Listen, I, perspective with that is a little tough because I'll put it this way. I'll feel like, I actually feel like through most of my life, I have not encountered a lot of tragedy. So in many ways, especially with regard to my. parents it's at least I got those years with my parents right some people never met their parents some people had parents but they beat them or were mean to them and they had a a bad relationship so I just try and hang hang my hat on the the elements to be grateful for yeah and

and I'm you know at least with with regard to that I'm I'm not the kind of person who I think processes grief through the idea of wanting the past to come back, right? Like, I don't hold on to the past. You know, the acceptance part of it came for me pretty easy. Like, this was one chapter of my life, and that's over. And, you know, just in confronting that finality is kind of, is something I'm very, I am comfortable with. I'm comfortable with going, you know, because I think a lot of people, I don't know, I think the biggest element of kind of just personal peace is not living in the past and not looking to the future and just being like here.

That's like a, that's a discipline of, you know, a lot of meditation and mindfulness is all about some people just, oh, I'm worried about what I'm doing. next week or I'm worried about planning this vacation or what tour we're going to go on or what and it's like or some dude stepped on my toe last month or you know I dropped my ice cream in the ocean yeah and just and and that just puts you in a in a in this odd seesaw of not just being here because really nothing there is no tomorrow there is no yesterday there's only now those are only constructs of the mind really totally It's hard to stay in the moment and present when you're in a band because you can't help it. You know, you keep looking forward.

Well, yeah, you have to. Of course, and some of that is a little esoteric. Obviously, you have to plan things. You know, we have to get insurance so in case such and such happens. And we plan weddings and we plan all kinds of things. We plan our retirement, things like that. I'm not trying to say I don't think about those things. Of course, of course.

Or even look towards a. future. I'd say in many ways my being centered in the moment, it in some ways can be detrimental to some relationships because some people they need that what's in the future? You know, and that's not right or wrong. It's just different. It's different. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's very, it's very different. Yeah, I meant like maybe maybe subconsciously where you're having conversation when someone is trying to like just listen only to the words you're saying and not like like the next show or like the oh you know got to we have practice and got to finish the song you're just like always like in that and maybe in that in that way because because you're because you spent so

much time in your career doing that to finally stop that I found it's very difficult you know and I don't know if it's bright or wrong if you if if if you have that you know it's like is that healthy or should you stop that? Well, I mean, listen, I think part of kind of utilizing intelligence, right, in our kind of problem-solving mindset is, at least what I try and do is use my experience and then place that over the present to try and predict what will happen, right? So this is the idea of I want to prevent bad things from happening. I want to get ahead of problems before they manifest.

And if you're smart enough, you have no experience. You can see all the warning signs so when things aren't going well. And so you try and get ahead of them. And so I think in many ways that's at least the way I approach kind of these ideas within maybe a band context is going. Okay, I've done this long enough to know if these certain things, happen or happening now, that it's going to lead to these bad outcomes. Yeah.

Right? So and so I think I tend to be the type person to try and heed warnings to the band or, hey, you know, hey John, I think if we don't do this and this, this probably will happen

and it's not a good look. So let's try and work on that. You know, one of the worst things to me is when something obvious is going to happen and people refuse to see the signs and then all of a sudden it happens and then they go didn't see that coming well you you weren't looking you weren't paying attention you're you know it's like keep your eye on the road stop looking at your phone keep yeah keep your eye on the road people keep your eye on the road and uh yeah it's tough to have those

those conversations, it's hard to have those tough conversations, you know, because you want everything with the band, like just to be positive, but you got to have those, like, moments where like,

hey, we should probably talk about this. We should probably bring us up. Yeah, I think, listen, I think I, my personality can be grading. I think sometimes within certain organizations

that's primarily involved with bands because that's what I've been doing for a long time, because I am pretty strong-headed, and I do have very strong opinions about just in general the way I think maybe a band should run or a record should maybe creatively come out, and I want to be a part of all that.

And sometimes, yeah, that honesty is not always greeted warmly. Yeah. Because sometimes it can be perceived as, you know, maybe, I don't know, bullheadedness or just, I don't know, it's just my, my approach could rub people the wrong way sometimes, but it's never intentional. You know, but sometimes I feel like, I feel like I'm just being assertive. Yeah. And being, you know, so, and I'd rather talk about, I just don't suffer bullshit lightly.

I'd rather get to the crux of a situation and talk about the late. blatant reality of it. Totally. Yeah, that curve out people the wrong way. Yeah, sometimes. And by the way, the key for me is not to be a hypocrite about it, right?

So if I'm willing to be honest about maybe someone else having an issue or me having an issue with something, I also have to be willing to accept that. Absolutely. You know, from other people. So I have to be consistent. It's important.

No, I think, I think if we were in a band-a-gather, it'll be awesome. Hell yeah. Because I'm the same way. I want assertive opinions, but a lot of people don't communicate that that way. That's not their language. You've got to speak. It's already hard enough to talk about it.

Then we have to, like, figure out another way to talk about that and to where, because you're talking to another human that had their life and they're not raised like you. It's like, you have to like kind of how are they going to take this, how you're going to speak to it, or how you can communicate this where you come off like like you're trying to come off that's so hard dude I mean I wish like you know

I just want someone to come up to me tell me that I'm a bitch wake up do it but if I see that to someone else a guard is the biggest thing in the world I want to quit the band probably it's just someone people don't like speak

speak like you do or think like you do it's tough you know and I think it would be in I think it would definitely get along in a band Well, I've had the great fortune to be in a lot of different band dynamics now, where I was in one band for a long time and since, and I've played with a lot of people. And I've been in leadership positions within some of those bands, and I've been in a supplementary role in other band scenarios. And the one thing I've learned is, and I think this is applicable probably to any workplace situation where you have a group of people working together is you have to understand that everyone, has their little tics.

Everyone has their little different idiosyncrasies of their personality that you have to, so you can't really treat everyone blanket the same. You have to, oh, if I speak to this person this way, it'll really piss them off. So I have to kind of approach this person this

way or, and so that's something I always think about is just trying to really fit each person's sensitivities. To that whichever I want because I want Band environments to be

Fun and comfortable and you know and have and I want everyone to be engaged and feel like we're part of a team and we're all If that if this person isn't here then we're not it's not gonna work if that person not here that you want to make people feel Indispensable and I and I believe that it's not just a You know it's not just some bullshit like I mean, we've seen this a million times where, you know, maybe you have a member change and it's just never the same, right? Doesn't mean it's like that person is worse, but each person is unique. Each person, like, they play the way they play and they have whatever they bring to the table. And I always want to kind of honor that, the fundamental humanity of that.

Yeah. And the beauty of that. And that's why, you know, at the heart of why we do it. why it feels so good to just get in a room. Like, to some degree where, have you ever thought sometimes you're in a room and you're jammy, rehearsing, you're like, this is actually better than the show. Yeah. You know?

Oh, totally. Because it's just for you. It's just for that. And it's not, there's no validation seeking. You know, it's just, well, you strike on these moments. You're like, this is the best thing. Or just sometimes when you first get in a room, ain't. You first turn the amps up loud and you first hear that first hit.

Yeah, it's sick. Like, oh, that's why I'm here for, baby. Yo, that's, yeah, and you're just like, you're having that connection with your band members. They're your brothers, you know? Or sisters. Yeah, you know, they're, they're your family. It's like, man, we're like, we're in a room together.

And there's something that happens when you're rehearsing. You're kind of like lock in tighter sometimes. Or maybe you were just more aware of like the little details of sounds and feelings. Yeah, I mean, listen, rehearsal, that's another thing I can piss people off. Because I'm, I don't know, like some bands or some people, they go to rehearsal and they're kind of rocking out. Me, I don't really do that. I'm just listening. Yeah.

Especially if it's we're rehearsing for a tour or we're trying to make a song work. And so it's, so I can be very like, I'm very much the guy, hey, this is this way, this, and I'm sure I get some nerves, people's nerves sometimes. No, it's funny, I've been struggling with that. It's like, should I rock out? I'm not like going insane, but like should I move into music? Should I really honing more on details? And when you just said, like, I've been struggling with that.

Like, should I hone it more in details or should I deal with the music a little bit or try to find that balance? It's tough. Yeah, listen, I think every dynamic is different. It's like jamming with the wedding band with Kirk and Rob from Metallica. Those dudes rock out at rehearsal. They're just having so much fun. Yeah. And part of me is almost jealous.

Like, man, because I'm so focused on just everything being right and listening. Hey, is he hitting the right note? Is that vocal harmony there? And they're just vibing. And I get a little, hopefully one day maybe I'll get there where I can just be, be in the moment and not be in my like, you know, analytical mind. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it, maybe it is a balance. Of course, it is.

And the thing is, like I said, some of it is just being in there and having fun and being there. And then the other element is the, you know, like you're at practice for a sports team. where it's about the discipline and the rigor and we're preparing for this event. But I take it really seriously. You do? I do. I mean, you don't get in a room with those guys.

We don't take what you do extremely seriously. Yeah, well, I just, it's kind of a grand contradiction because when I was a kid, I was never that great about homework. And then once I became, musician that started playing with a lot of different people, it became the most important thing to me was showing up prepared. Yeah, that's huge. And if someone isn't prepared, it really gets under my skin.

And, but it's, I don't know, but I think it speaks at least with my personality to the things, it's like, the things I actually really care about. If I really care about it, then I'll homework. But if I don't, I don't care, I don't like it. I'll push it off to the very last minute. But I do think it's a beyond the idea of kind of the idea of just general school homework. Yeah. Just if you enter any scenario where you have to be accountable, you want to be as prepared as possible.

Totally. Good. Pretty obvious statement, but. Obvious, but you will be surprised, man. We will be a surprise. It's weird how that works out, huh? Like when we're younger, we don't want to deal homework. and we don't read.

Doing it older, we do our homework, we start reading. It's so, what? Well, I don't know how much reading we're doing. I've become such an inconsistent reader, but I do. At least something.

No, I do, but it's not as much as I would like to. Of course. I have a cue in Audible right now. Nice, dude. Hey, man, Audible counts. It's great. It's great to what, listen. It is different.

It's great. It's something about, the words just like just seep into your mind and body i love especially if we listen to any obama's books you know i just listen to obama all day oh you're you're in oh it's great i just anytime the actual author reads it and they got a cool voice yeah you know malcolm gladwell's another good one that's great he has a cool voice yeah the worst is when you just get the just the generic narrator guy i was in this this this this one book and it was dude just speeding through stuff I'm like, no, no, I feel like he's selling me something at a rally.

I'm like, yo, dude, calm down, all right. Can I get the author, all right, who understands the weight of his words? Yeah. Anyway, apologies. No, totally. Yeah, the author, it feels so good when, like, the author that wrote the book is saying it. Even if they're not the best at, like, reading out loud, you know, it's like, dude, it's still, it's sick. Like, oh, he or she is saying that.

That's great. I think that's half the reason why I want to write a book so I can do the audio book. I would listen to that. You have an audio book voice. Oh, I do? See? Audible, that's what I meant. They won't.

I think we're... Into the forest. There you go. I think we can see the future now. That's right. Or can we hear the future? We all hear. You're welcome.

Dang. Welcome to movie phone. Dude, that'd be sick. Audible is huge. Alex is really huge on audible. And I think he's going to get me back into it. I'm down, listen, there's any people, any voice actor communities listening to this. Hala, hollat your boy.

All right, I'm ready to take your money. Obviously, you thought about it, but, you know, like you writing a book. You know, I started writing a book a few years ago about race, and then I stopped, which is fine. I've learned to, I've come to learn over the years that things kind of happen when they're supposed to. And so I was writing for a few websites, Metal Sucks, my own blog, VH1.com, CreativeLive.com, for a few years. And I was actually to the point where I was a paid freelancer and then music kind of took over again. And so I do have an aptitude for writing. And I actually enjoy writing.

It's funny to hear a lot of authors really kind of dread the process. Like, I've never had writers' block when, like, physically writing. I always feel like I have something to say. That's awesome. So, and I enjoyed the process. The only thing that's unfortunate, at least within Internet spaces, is the way people consume content has evolved really quickly where articles, quick read articles,

you know, 1,000 words, 2,000 words, were pretty popular. And then things really transferred really quickly to YouTube, vlogging. And so the same, maybe the type of content that would be in a written article is now just in a vlog or someone speaking to a camera. Wow.

Yeah, you really saw that happen. I think it was you got the VH1 gig 2015, because you wrote that article that went pretty much viral with you and God God forbid and talking about that history, and you're a great writer. Thank you. Well, the funny thing about that,

that article was not with VH1. That was from my own website. That's what it was. Yeah. And I got a lot of, I think, credibility. And I received a lot of good attention. from stuff like that. So, and that stuff, especially at that time,

and I think what's great about almost any of these mediums within the modern internet and social media is you get that immediate reaction, right? You release something and then immediately it's like, boom, here are comments, here are text messages, here are people reaching out. And you get an instant sense of how things react. And that's something I really enjoyed about it.

And I enjoyed having this idea of, having an idea and then boom you can just do something there's no middlemen there's no and that's honestly been very difficult kind of in the in the years with bad wolves where when you're in a band now the things you say have an impact on a on something broader than yourself so you have to edit yourself in ways where you wouldn't have to and it's it's tough for me because Because yet I do have strong opinions. I do think people respect honesty. Yes.

People, you know, there's certain people, you know, you have someone like Charles Barkley, for example, right? People love Charles Barkley because they know when he says something, he's keeping it real. Because he'll say things that are not the nice thing or the popular thing or it'll piss people off. And by the way, and he's not a troll, right? He's not actually manufacturing fake opinions just for this whole purpose of pissing people off. He actually just, hey, I think this, I'm not going to catch flag for it, but who cares? And that's kind of a sacrifice that's been made in the last four years with bad wolves. And in the last six months, with everything we're dealing with having to kind of stay quiet.

You know, it sucks. Yeah, totally. yeah if you've always been been that way I've always like just read something on like on the news sides about but the thing is you when you when you dot coil say something

it definitely holds weight and it's different from when someone else says something because you have experience writing and when you say something it's way more articulate and intelligent and well more thought out than maybe like someone else that does it so so what you say definitely holds more more weight and thankfully I have that experience with all that writing.

I try to. It's cool. Now I can just hear my little 10 tweet runs on a little particular subject matters. That's almost my writing takes place. Yeah, you coming from writing, how is that, I mean, you were just saying how like going from blogging to vlogging. How is that evolving now? Like where?

Well, I mean. Live streaming has obviously been, again, very similar to the podcast world, something that a lot of people like you and myself started to realize that during the pandemic that, well, we can't just rely on making records and touring. We have to really exert ourselves in these other spaces that are growing.

And seeing how people take an advantage of this, how they've understood that every, every element of all this stuff is part of your creative process, right? Like, doing a podcast can be just as creative as making an album. Yeah. And so it's been really cool to see.

I've engaged with live streaming mainly through the Bad Wolf's Patreon page and kind of gone from the very basic element of it to, you know, trying to amp it up and getting some of the software, the e-cam software, and making it a little more professional and so it's been quite a growing experience but I definitely have not taken advantage of it to the degree some of the people who have made it kind of like their day-to-day thing but I think

that's a great growth space and a different way to connect to fans or whatever your kind of avenue it is and and that's something I'm actually really hoping to kind of stick with But, you know, lately I've been, because, you know, myself and some of the guys in the band were just getting harassed so much online, we all kind of backed away for a while. And so it's been this very, like, slow dipping of the toes back in social media because I think it's just so all-consuming that it, in a way, it, I think it breaks our brains a little bit. it does it's hard not to uh yeah it's hard not to let that affect you especially when we're talking about dealing with uh you know a band and another another band member either coming in or going out and there's like then you it's already hard enough with just the five of you but then you throw on like a worldwide band base it's hard it's fucking hard to like not to know what to listen to you

or what's not or should you step away completely Or it's a devil's bargain in that the more time and energy you spend on social media and online spaces, the more it will help your career. But the more you do it, the fucking crazier you get. And the more you have less of attention span, the more you get wrapped up in needing other people's approval, the more you get into the idea of I need to get it. I need to do something crazier to get people to pay attention. And when you have an incentive structure that revolves around, hey, you need to be on these platforms all day, every day. But it's slowly corroding your kind of spiritual, mental, and emotional well-being. Yeah.

I kind of equate it to, like, working in a coal mine, right? It's like, hey, you need to feed my family, but I'm also going to have the black lung. Right? And we think about any dangerous job that will affect you physically or mentally for the rest of your life. And I kind of put it in that category that you can go deep down that rabbit hole. Or maybe there's a certain category of human being that's able to kind of navigate it healthily. And I'm sure there are. But for me, it's always something where it feels like wading into the swamp.

But when I'm pumped on it and excited about it, I think it's. can be very creative and really awesome, but it's tough. So I'm slowly, slowly waiting back into the waters. Slowly, yeah. It's the way you do it. And only, you know, only you know how that makes you feel and think. It's tough to find that balance in there.

Yeah. And I'm jealous of maybe like an old school artist who doesn't really have to be on there or maybe their assistant does it for them. And they can just go just live their lives. What do you? I'm at the beach. Yeah. Is your phone? What's a phone? Yeah. These are my children. Yeah. His name is Spirit Warrior. Take him. He will bring you peace. And it's like, oh, great. Thank you, Spirit Warrior. You have a lovely child. You know? I mean, I'm definitely jealous of those people.

Totally like you look guys like Kendrick are like, you have it beyond made. You did it. Kendrick Lamar? Yeah. Is he on social media? No. Oh, he's not? Fuck no. Genius. Damn, dude. Or what's the opposite of that? When you have like Elon Musk, who apparently on papers the richest guy in the world,

but he's on Twitter like trolling people and shit posting. I'm going, so that means there's no amount of money you can have or power or influence

where you're still drawn to that shit, where you still want people to, you still want that feedback. And that's also a little a little scary. Yeah.

Yeah, you would like, I'll have to think that deep down, even with, you know, successful people and like a lot of money, they're still, they're still humans. And they could get wild up on like seeing, you know,

let's say a tweet, like Elon Musk, you know, deep down, he's, I mean, he's still, he's still a dude. Yeah, it's,

well, I think it is a manifestation of the realization of power that knowing, you can post a picture or statement and millions of people will be affected by it. It must be, in the digital sense, like some king walking out of his front door and waving to all the people.

Like, it's kind of insane that people have direct access, individuals have direct access to all this people. And that must feel pretty powerful. that wow, this amount of people hang on my every word. This amount of people, if I post a product, we're going to buy it. This amount of people, you know, that's... So I think it's a form of kind of really tangible power. Now, I would say power over other people,

but at least power to influence other people. And I'm sure that, you know, and you and I, you know, we have a presence on social media, but nothing of that stature, right? That feels outside the normal realm of just being a, you know, as I call metalcore famous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's strange. And then, you know, who knows what's going to happen to, you know, like the scene in five years, around 10 years from now, how it's going to evolve to. And it seems like we always, you always hear about, you know, if you're talking. in like i don't know monzi conner or getter like he'll hear like the stories full i mean be around for 20 years and then or if you're or if you're my sugar and you enough bands break you off and you know then you just get big you know is i mean but they're lucky but but they're fucking incredible though so where it's just you don't you don't know where it's going you know well but i think that's half

the the battle is is is more often than not, if you're the type of individual who always wants to stay ahead of that curve, you can stay ahead of the curve. I mean, look at what someone like Travis Barker has done, essentially associating himself with all these different new school rappers and being kind of instrumental in the revitalization of pop punk with people like MGK and things like that. Rick Rubin is someone that I've always admired. And I remember reading an article. well, an interview, excuse me, with him, maybe around 2007, 2008, or even before,

where he essentially predicted the entire streaming revolution. And he's like, this is going to happen. This industry will demonstratively change. And he was ahead of that because in many ways it's his job, right? He's also outside of being a producer. He's an entrepreneur and business owner and invested in these, you know, in these movements or even look at that, what's his name, Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine getting, you know, kind of going to the next phase and going from,

hey, we're in the music business or the record label business to, well, no, now we're in tech and going, okay, what is the next thing? And you basically, if you want to survive, you have to do that. because no matter how things are now, they're never just going to stay that way, right? So if you were the type of artists who said, well, I'm not going to embrace social media, I'm not going to embrace streaming, or I'm not going to embrace Patreon

or whatever manifestation of how things have evolved, you will be left behind. So even if it's through gritted teeth, you're going to have to confront some of these things. Totally. And listen, I'm sure every now and again, you have certain artists who go, I'm old school,

If we're going to do that stuff, the assistant can do it or the manager can do it. Yeah. And, but that's a luxury, right? All of us don't have that luxury. Yeah, it is. You know, yet it kind of goes back to like sacrifice and hustle where it's like, you could take on some of these new opportunities and new ways things are evolving. use them to your benefit, hey, maybe I, the band gonna try this or try that.

You know, we, we could do a Patreon, we could do live streams. You start a podcast or you could, but there's other bands that don't have the luxury that just don't do it, maybe because they're too old school. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think, I think in many ways it's pretty healthy to be someone who goes, you know what I do? I make music, I go on tour. I'm not doing that. I'm like fishing.

I'm playing cards. Or I'm cooking or whatever their thing is. And the other things are interested in, have nothing to do with music and maybe connect to the fans. And I think that's perfectly healthy. But I think because of that rat race mentality of, hey, if we don't do these things, we're going to be broke. If we don't do these things, we're not going to have a fan base.

we're not going to have whatever opportunities that we might be losing out by not sacrificing and hustling. Yeah. So it's, you know, but I think also what's kind of starting to change is that musicians are starting to see themselves more as individuals than just part of a greater whole, like a band. Yeah. And that gets to these things like someone's individual social media or someone. one's individual streaming channel where it becomes, well, I'm just going to be Chris Garza. I'm, I'm part of this really cool band, but I'm kind of my own brand or my own kind of thing. And that in a way, even though there's maybe, I think maybe people might see some downsides,

it makes us all like a little more self-accountable, a little more, hey, I'm going to, we all kind of have to manage our own situations, you know, just because the band is not always going to be able to cover everything and pay all your bills and be the kind of one-stop shop. So we, I think it's healthy to diversify our business streams and interests and all of that. So, and, and take charge of it, right? Don't just sit there and wait for the record label to send you in advance, right? Like, no, let's go out there and let's, let's make things happen on our own. And I think it does reward the self-starters and the self-motivated. Totally.

I think you're one of those guys. I'm trying. Like I said, it's all, like right now, the other day, you know, like last week, I was like, you know what? I think I'm going to start fucking around this TikTok thing. And then I like opened it up. I posted a couple videos. And then you start scrolling and you're like, oh, this isn't a joke.

Like TikTok is like a language. A language, I don't know. So if I'm serious about it, I have to. to you have to become a consumer of it to understand okay this is how do I speak in their language and so it's this you I can have an idea but it's not as frivolous as I thought it really as as it really was so you have to take these things seriously and realize every minute you spend doing one thing is a minute you can't spend doing something else so it's about investing that time as wisely as possible yeah to get the

the best outcome, but I think you have to enjoy it, right? Like, I don't think it would be necessarily beneficial for me to go. I'm going to be TikTok guy, but I'm doing it because it's cool, not because I'm doing it because it's trendy. And the thing I like about TikTok, despite not really being, really knowing, knowing the medium yet is that it does seem like a very creative medium. So that is cool. I think we haven't had a social media.

that was derived around music as much since MySpace. Yeah. So that's big. That's big for music. And we, you know, Suicide Silence is one of those bands that capitalized off a boom of bands spreading organically on MySpace. And this is kind of version kind of 2.0 and maybe it won't, it's not a band thing, but at least for individual musicians or what have you. And I think that's exciting and the fact that it's still kind of new. Yeah.

And we just, listen, I think it's this, we had this period, kind of when you guys were coming out from the late aughts into the early 2010s, where the record industry, right, was kind of dying. Yeah. And there was this rough period where record sales were going down, but streaming hadn't blown up yet, right? And now there's all this, you see, like all our friends bands are like getting new gold records. and Platinum Records because the streaming is causing all this flurry. And so there's, so there is money to be made there. There is growth. It's not like people ever stop listening to music.

And in some sense, maybe people are listening even to more music because it's more accessible, right? You don't got to wait to go to Best Buy to get the CD. Yeah. And so it's this kind of cyclical thing where we go, oh, well, maybe music isn't that important to people. Maybe it's just background music to some degree, but it still feels like one song can kind of like blow up the earth for a month, right? One song comes out, WAP comes out, and it's everywhere. Everyone's talking about it, right? Like that Silk Sonic song, you hear that with Bruno Mars and...

Oh, my God. So good. Anderson Pock, like, you know, it's like an old school, like Motown-style pop song, but it's like a... It's, I listen that shit 5,000 times, you know, like a song is still powerful. And I think that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. The, uh, the, uh, the essence of the song still hasn't lost his soul and power, I think.

It's just different now. It's changing and different, you know. Yeah, TikTok, I did the same thing that, that you did. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, TikTok. It's like, but same thought process. Wait, the more, it's a, you got to understand how they communicate. in language and it's just more minutes

yeah listen that's my humility knowing when you're old and shot like yo I'm at a touch yo and this shit happened quick you're like oh I finally got my Instagram hashtag game down and are you just that's me do like you like you like

I just got a C minus in Instagram and then some new shit showed up so yeah but IG's still going man No, it's still probably the most active space. And the thing about Instagram, why people really love Instagram is because it's, it's visual. So you don't got to be smart.

You just got to look good, first off. And it's the easiest to do, right? Here's my picture. I'm done. Yeah, true. You got to think about that shit. I mean, even though, of course, the people who are like, that's their shit, they, of course, plan the phone. photos and go you know it's a whole there's a whole science to it I don't want to

undermine the fact that you can become a billionaire doing that shit because you can't yeah that's true it's true I mean there's there's something about IG that were the there's no age gap so where everyone kind of gets it and can communicate in that way and it kind of gets it you know for now for now we'll see oh you're right you know young People always they they migrate right it was like there's basically no young people on Facebook now They're done. Oh you're right. They moved on thank God to graveyard No it's not a graveyard. It's like a it's like a senior's home, but that's okay You know or you got you know people like me who I love you know Twitter's my favorite

But probably equal you know equally or more toxic than any any of the spaces but I like it because it is thoughts and words and and ideas and tangible news, a lot of comedy. Yeah, I don't have a Twitter, but I'm pretty shocked that it's still around, and it seems to be still thriving. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know how much money they make, but the thing about Twitter, Twitter's almost, I think at this point, become like a utility where all the important politicians and reporters and kind of information

vessels that make us know what's going on. Like I was listening to New York Times podcast today, talking about the violence in the Gaza Strip. And one of this Palestinian family, the girl says, yeah, I'm on Twitter every day because that's where information and news is, it's the most, it's the quickest, right? So something happens.

And listen, I learned this during Hurricane Sandy back in 2013. when there was no gas and I was living in New Jersey and I literally found a hashtag to like so I was like how do you fucking find gas and they would like release tell you when a gas station had gas but I found it on Twitter. So Twitter to me is like

looking at the matrix like it's just like the entire however many people communicating everything that's going on or like that's how they I remember you were watching TV during the Boston bomber and they were looking for those guys. And Twitter was ahead of the news

because there'd be people on the ground tweeting, oh, there was this shootout here. And here's shots. And so it's like kind of tapping into the real human consciousness to some degree. But it's very ugly. Yeah. I guess maybe depending on what circle you're in and what,

because there's different versions in Twitter. There's different. Same. I'm going to take a. a copy break. It's beer 30. Gating some medello coffee. That's right. Do they make up your coffee stout?

I probably do. Sick. I'm going to show you that Bruno Mars song if we're done. You're going to be one smiling motherfucker. I bet it's awesome. He's heavy, dude. Bruno Mars is heavy. Dude, he's the man. He is pound for pound my favorite current pop star for me.

Pass over. Thank you. Appreciate that. Passover, not just a holiday. It was Bruno Mars' first record. I've been jamming that. I wish, that's a good record. Yeah, I was really, I really got into Bruno Mars on that song, Locked Out of Heaven.

Talk about a talented guy, man. Ooh. There you go. I wonder who his band is. Dude, he's had the same Same dudes They all look like they Cuban or some shit You know? No, really?

You know how to shake their hips, man I didn't look You know, they need to call me All right, I'll be in that band I'll dance I'll do background vocals I'll fucking You ever know

Get me one of those like Cuban Like net shirts You know they'd be wearing All right I'll get that shit Some loafers You be ready Cheers, cheers,

Cheers, Doc Cheers Thank you for being here, brother Might steal one of these mugs right A great, a great, uh, that's yours. A great combo. Ah.

This past, uh, transparently, these past few days, I've been, I listened to, uh, to three of your records. Oh.

Uh, a God forbid record. And I really actually sat and listened to Bad Wolves. I, I've done that, honestly. Yeah.

I haven't. He's like, yo, I thought about listening to a band and then I just decided to carry on with my life. As far as like a record, like front, front of back, just put putting the headphones, crank it,

went into the gym, in the sauna, just, like, sweating and, like, listening. Oh, shit. Oh, my God. I haven't, like, you know, you put, like... Didn't I show you? Was it you or Alex? Who did I...

It was at... Notfest. It was Alex. It was Alex. It was Alex. Okay. I must have showed him, like, a handful of songs before the first album came out.

But, but, yeah. Well, the interesting with Bad Wolves, though, it's... I'm a condo. contributor to Bad Wolves. I mean, the sound of the band was really designed by John, our drummer, and then this guy, Max Karen, who started the band, and Max still works with the band. So it's, in many ways, I had to learn how to write in the voice of Bad Wolves, you know, because it wasn't my sound. Like, I joined the band. There was, like, a record done to some degree.

do me the coffee is crazy around here no I had to kind of adjust to the to like the style of what they were doing and so like it was until the second record that I wrote a song that ended up on the you know where I was like I constructed songs kind of from the ground up that ended up on a record nice so but even the majority I wouldn't say it's like that's my sound you know but I'm part of it you know so it's a

Bad Wolves is a, it's like a collective thing. It's very interesting. Like, one thing I've, I'll say this probably a million times in the next year is that I've learned that the band is much bigger than any one person. Like there's so many, from the people in the band to our producers, to some other songwriters that we work with to help. It really is like, takes a village to make those songs what they are. Yeah.

And it's cool and it's interesting. And it's always humbly to try and, because there's a high bar. And that's kind of cool. And it's kind of pushed me to different levels of comprehension of what makes a song great, what makes it a hit, what makes it accessible, what, you know, all those things. It's interesting because it sounds like you belong in that band. Yeah, well, there's riffs. People go, oh, I know Doc wrote that.

if I was like, nope, but I'll take credit for it. Yeah. That's crazy. How do you do that? Do what? Be in the band?

They asked me to be in the band. That's crazy. Like, it's, I mean, it sounds like, I mean, well, this is what I've been,

you know, saying about bad boys for a while, was like, oh, you know, Doc and John are in a band. That's like guaranteed a solid foundation

to be in a band. Yeah, and listen, and everyone, I mean, our guitar player, Chris, every time,

Chris is great too. Every time Chris picks up a fucking guitar, he writes a sick-ass riff. Every time. And he's an insanely guitar player. Kyle, our bass player, is, I mean, he's one of the best bass players in metal, period. I mean, the stuff. I mean, Devin Townsend called him to play in his band on one of the cruises. And even Kyle's been writing more, you know, and working on his production.

And, you know, Kyle did a bunch of vocals on the new. record that's that's that's not out yet and uh you know and even you know with the new situation we are our brand new fifth member yet to be announced is a great songwriter too so we're we're just in this position where a every situation needs to have hierarchies right it can't be five captains on the ship very true uh and for me it's it's been a process of figuring out that interplay seeing where I fit in, at first, kind of proving to the band of myself that I could write for the band where it made sense, but then also being kind of instrumental in help shaping other compositions as well, even if it's not my song, just come in and going, hey, you know, maybe this part

can be a little like this, or maybe we need this, you know, and just being involved and kind of trying to make a mark that you can feel a part of it, because to some degree, I can have have a lot of distance, especially from the first record, because I really only chimed in on a handful of songs, where you're like, oh, I'm in the band. I'm a part of it. I contributed, but it's not mine. I don't feel, you know, there's like, it's different because when you've been in a band where you're like the main writer or you played all the stuff and you're, you've been doing it since you were a teenager, you're like, this is my band and it's, you, you feel it a little more, but with battles, there's a little more distance, you know, for that.

interesting well I think that takes a lot of self awareness and understanding that there is it's about the band as a whole first you know and there is like

there's there's a bigger picture and how and how can we be a team to to make bad wolves as a whole well listen there's certain individuals that wanted to make it about credit you know I did this, you did that. It's like, who gives

this shit? You know, I mean, you know, we're making a joke that there should be a card that says credit on it so that someone could hold the credit card so they could claim credit over some shit. That's a good one.

And as they say, failure, I was it, I was sorry, success has many fathers and failure is an orphan. So and I think with something like bad wolves, which at least in the rock world is a bit of a phenomenon,

you definitely have that element of maybe people want to take credit or claim they had a, you know, with a sole reason or whatever. But I'll say this, whomever deserves credit, I would never claim the majority of it. I feel very much like I was just a passenger on a particular ride

that happened to have something really cool happen and tried to just be a part of it. But I certainly would never go, like, I'm not breaking my fucking arm, patting myself on the back. And I do think it was a great collective, great record label, great management company. You know, we had Zoltan from Five Finger, you know, helping put the whole project together,

putting us on a bunch of tours. No, and we just had a lot of great fortune, you know, And so sitting around saying who deserves what, I don't think is really helpful exercise, unless you're trying to convince yourself of something. Yeah. You know? You know.

The thing that's tied in with ego, but the unhealthy version of ego, you think? Well, I mean, that's that exactly what it is. So the ego, we all need an ego, right? That's just part of the way our personalities are structured to essentially just deal with the world, right? Because our subconscious is filled with doubt and anxiety, that little voice telling you, you're not good enough,

you're going to fail, you can't do whatever you're going to do. And then it's our ego that when we, you know, especially when we're young and we're going out there on stage and going like, I'm a badass, right? Yeah. And so you're like, I'm a badass. And then you're rocking out. And you're like, and then everyone,

And everyone, let's say everyone loves the show. And then your ego sees, oh, oh, shit. All those people really into it. Maybe I am a badass. Oh, man. I'm looking good in the mirror. I'm saying. I did this, man.

I'm great. They think I'm great, so I must be great. They go home and ain't no people cheering anymore. And they ain't looking around. And then where's the ego? My motherfucker gone. He's in the closet. And it's just you with your subconscious going, I guess I ain't shit.

so so you know and I and I had that interplay you know I had very low self-esteem when I was younger and in high school and stuff like that and the band filled a lot of those gaps but it was superficial because it's all about getting validation from other people and feeding that ego who need to be told you're great you're you're cool you're you're talented whatever you're special And so I went through a process of only needing self-validation, you know, or trying. That's like an ideal, right? I mean, we're all susceptible to wanting someone to pat you on the head and tell you're cute and you're funny and you're sexy and you're talented. But it's something we all have to confront.

It doesn't go away. It's just about having a healthy relationship with your ego. And sometimes, like, you take the ego for a ride, you let it, whether that's the kind of cool guy at the bar who's like, you know, giving the double guns. Yeah, yeah. So I'll see you later, Tom, you know. Or being the, you know, part of being a rock star kind of is like that you become separate from the human. Because a rock star is like, is a superhuman. Yeah.

Right? They look cooler than you do. They drive a cooler car. They live in a better house. They have a hotter girlfriend there. And so you have to beat this character. And I think a lot of problems that comes with. And it's beyond rock music.

Of course, it could be anyone in any form of music or an athlete or an actor or politician. Anyone who gets fame and money and all its attention is sometimes they become the character. Right? They can't. It's like if Gene Simmons couldn't take his makeup off, right? He's like, I am the guy. And that's when it becomes a problem. Like, I think we've seen some of that with, like, Marilyn Manson, lately all this shit

come out with him where I think at some point he just, instead of Brian Warner, he was like, I'm Marilyn Manson. And that makes you be fucked up and make a lot of really fucked up decisions and hurt a lot of people. Yeah. Because you're special. I'm not like normal people. I'm not accountable. I can do whatever I want.

Yeah. Right? It doesn't mean deep down there There's not a sensitive guy Who was at one point was a cool person But I say absolute power corrupts absolutely Yeah Yeah

It's really hard to subdue it Especially when you know what's happening Like oh here there's there's the eagle coming up We're having a conversation I want to save my opinion But knowing but knowing with that wait This is not This is your show

You can say any opinion you want I think Sure But I mean, like, you know, when like you're having, let's say a conversation with, with you're a band member. You know when it's, you should say something that this is, this is you being honest and yourself, but there's a difference between when it's your ego. Oh, wait, this is, I need to subdue this so I could say this, you know. And it's this constant, damn near impossible battle. For you?

Yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. Because you want to be like, battling with. listening to what someone else is saying saying the right thing after done because it's like you want to say the right thing because you want to subdue the ego i don't know you've ever had a struggle with yeah yeah of course i mean but like said i think it we need it too because that's the ego you take that when you go on stage and you like hold that guitar up you're like i'm the shit right now right yeah that's ego but it's kind of cool because you're like you kind of have to

believe it for that time period to sell the whole show. Yeah. Like, man, that dude really thinks he's a God for that. However amount of time. Yeah. You know, and that's, that feeling is very alluring, right? That's, yeah. That's the drug, right?

I just got to get back on stage and get that feeling. I mean, that feeling will take you, you'll play a great show and you'll just be for the whole rest of the night. you're like floating through the red you know just like you know people see you at the bar after the show yo man you're the best you're like that's right I am the best I stink the show too I was there it was great you know it's dude it's it's uh and by the it's it's the it's the it's the same reason why you have like some actor who wants to be in a band and dude because the is like you're an actor right and you're like filming Captain America or some shit like

dude that shit's long hours hard work ain't no crowd cheering for you you're just working right it's only when you go on the red carpet or maybe you go to Walmart maybe some people ask for it but there's that element of a crowd of people

screaming for you that kind of everyone wants not everyone I'm sure there's plenty of people who like have stage fright they don't want that but people who kind of seek that kind of experience that everyone kind of wants to be a rock star, you know?

And it's kind of this thing where you kind of, it's something you can't really buy. Yeah. Right? Like, think about, think about how many, you know, you're a California guy. Like, think about how many, like, rich kids that live somewhere in L.A. where they're like, you know, Russian oligarch dad is trying to pay for, like, the girl to become the next Britney Spears and putting them with producers and all that. And they're spending millions of dollars, and they can't make it happen.

you know that happens all the time like it's and when it happens organically and i've had this heard this a couple times recently where people people who are more successful than me go man that like even god forbid was not the biggest band in the world but at least made a certain impact that was completely organic yeah and that some people would have they would have killed to get that just that little bit of feeling it's it's peculiar and strange and i'm not again not trying to pat myself on the back but it's it it is a very kind of magical thing to try and attain and wield and maintain yeah yeah you can't you can't buy it i just said that right i'm fucking echo in here shit i'm trying to i'm trying to pump you up dude okay okay we're trying that's right yo you go

go's dude you right it's almost like you can't buy it the egos man come on i want to say some shit he was holding me back Oh, man, it's a, it's a beautiful thing, man. And especially when you get older, it's like, man, like, we did that. Yeah. You did it. Yeah, but in a way, it's kind of like it's not you anymore, though. It's almost like it happened to someone else.

You're like, it's like, we did that? Did we do that? Yeah. You know, because there's no, I mean, we could look at the videos and the YouTube and go down memory lane. But I've always been the mindset. that it does no one any service to kind of try and rest on past accomplishments. I feel like for myself at least, you're only as good as the last song you made, you're only as good as the last album you made, the last show you performed.

And oh yeah, it's like, okay, cool, you could lift 500 pounds 20 years ago, but how do muscles doing now? You know, it's it right, totally. But even as like a musician, right? You're ever like, watch yourself a video. Have you playing some shit? You're like, damn. Damn, I was pretty good.

I don't know if I can play that right now. I need those moments. But then there's also a ton of things I do now that I couldn't do then, right? So it's, yeah, it's a yin and yang. It is constantly too. Yeah, I really like your mindset with it. I'm very similar in that regard where it's like, was that me? what was it us but like you don't want to like

that this isn't you now you know like you don't want to like rest on like we did it great but now it's time now so I have this kind of dream right about if you had a time machine one of the things I would do if I had a time machine

was go back and see shows right like I'm going 91 I'm going to the Metallica gun GNR faith no more right I'm going okay because, or whatever, going to see whoever, Pantera in fucking 92 or whatever, just because

bands, sports teams, I'm even like an actor at a certain point or just anything like, you're only, if you go see Metallic in 86, it's a living organism so it will never be like that ever again. And that's why I think concerts are always going to be important because seeing Metallica,

and this was so great with Metallica over the pandemic, they put out all these concerts every week, Metallica Monday. Yeah, that's great. And it's like, oh, here's Metallica in 83. Here's Metallica 94. Here's Metallica 2017. And every show is different. Yeah.

Right? There are a different band in every show. They're different people at every show. And I think that's so cool that, yo, that urgency, right? Do you have to think about shows that you wanted to go to that you missed when you're a kid? And you still to this day, you're like, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fuck. Why didn't I go to that show?

Oh, yeah. Dude, I didn't have enough money to go see death play. Like, right? And Chuck Scholdner died, like, two years after that. And it's like, and you go. And of course, we didn't know he was going to die. But you're like, why did I do that? What the fuck?

You know? Could have saw corn, like on their first. record. My dad told him. I didn't even know who corn was yet. My dad was like, this band corn is playing. You know what I'm like, I don't know what that is. And I discovered him like a year later. But just a little shit like that. You're like, you know, but when I get the time machine, I'll go back and I'll check them out. Hopefully they don't suck, right? I'm sure sure it was great. Yeah, over here it was a, uh, uh, Pantera and morbid angel of Soulfly. You didn't go? Didn't go. Oh, I went.

Dude, that was the last tour, yeah. Unholy Alliance, Slayer. Wow. Oh, no, no, no. We said the one with Soul Fly. Yeah, Soul Fly. Okay, that wasn't the last, last one. But that was one of the last ones.

I know there was some confusion, because I know a morbid angel was on both those tours. They were. That's why I thought that. But I saw the one that was Pantera, Slayer, Static X. Scrape. Scrape. On the way home from this, I'm definitely,

I'm putting scrape on, turn it up to 11. I got a chance to crave. With a K. And Morbin Angel. With the M and a B. I love that. That was one of my favorite things

about the new metal era was you could be a no-name-ass new metal band, right? You came out on Monday, right? You got your record deal with Universal on Friday. And that following Wednesday, you were on a giant tour.

Would a tour bus. I'm like, yo, the power and the advances. And you go to a show, you're like, who is, who are the deadlights? Who are these bands, all right? And there's bands, see, I can, I have to, like, you go, who the fuck is Twisted Method?

Where did they, where did they get this tour bus from? You just want to know. There was this band called Boy Hits Car. Do you remember this band? Yeah, yeah. I remember we did this show. It was like, it was so weird. It was like them, us in Shadows Fall.

It was like this weird. It was in Dallas, Texas. It was just the dumbish. There was like some other new metal bands. and you be in there and they have and all those bands like they'd have the sickest equipment

right in cases because they got the big major label advance oh you always see that and you just be I don't know for some reason I always clocked their cases like anytime I saw a band

where their cabinets were in cases I was like yo because the cases cost more than the cabinets you know and they had all their shit all the shit in racks

and you're like goddamn I was to be so jealous same yeah if I saw I remember when I saw a job for a cowboy with their cabs in cases, I'm like, fuck. Except. They're fucking big. You know what?

When we weren't jealous of them, though, when they had to carry them shits up some stairs. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yo, a Mesa cabinet in a case, that shit, yo, that shit broke a lot of backs and put a lot of money in chiropractor's fucking bank accounts. He won't say that shit. Dude, yeah. All those carrying those fucking. You guys had Mesa cabs, right?

Yeah. They're heavy, dude. In cases? Yeah. Oh, fuck that. I hope you had a crew at that point. How we got it? We got them pre-cru.

Okay, see. Broke a lot of backs. Who has the bad back in the band? I think it's Mark. Mark, okay. But at least he's thin, though. Usually, if you're, if you have a slight frame, it's better for you back. Me, I have a tough time keeping the weight off, so that's been rough on my back.

Dude, it's tough, man. We were both fucking fat, and now he's doing good. I'm still eating pizza. That's all good, man. What's all good, man. If I could eat pizza and look like you, I would partake. It's tough, man. I just look at one.

You'll fucking wake up and I actually gain fucking 20 pounds. That's how it goes. God, age, man. I love it. I love it, though. Especially 35. It felt good. I felt like experienced.

You are experienced. All right. Yeah, and you guys got this tour coming up. Yeah. I'm excited about it. So the thing is, I don't know when we're going to be on tour. So I might be home. I have to check.

That L.A. show is sold out. So I might have to call some people. You know, I need VIP. Okay? Any parking? All right. I need all access, right? Of course.

That's right. This is how I call people now. It's a new iPhone. It goes in your pinky and your thumb. It's pretty cool. You just predict the future. Who knows where it's going to go these days? The iPhone is now just blow me away.

Yeah. Would you get the chip? Would you get the chip? So, like, instead of the, you know, my joke, You just go like, you know, tap on your head and you calm people in your brain. Would you get the chip? That's a no. Yeah, probably.

I don't know. You know what I want? Here's what I want. I want the chip. So you know how like when you go on Facebook or whatever, right? And it'll tell you their name, their location, their age. I want that in life, but just for like names so that I don't ever have to remember anyone's name ever again.

Like, I just want their shit to show up. You know, like, call their ID. I just see your name. Oh, Todd. They're like, how you know who I am? Don't worry about it. Okay. Yeah.

You know, I just want, we just, and it'll put the entire name tag business at out of business. There you go. You know? Staples, they'll be closing across the country because we won't be to sell name tags. But that's, I just want, I'm a bad name rememberer. Same.

You got to, uh, you got to put a, what is it i would i would put pictures to some people's faces you do that yeah that's smart sometimes you put like a picture i remember i was talking to this to this older lady at she worked at 7-11 always go to the court it's like a past midnight to get it to my cream when you're not you're not supposed to be there and uh her name was ball beer i so remember it ball beer yeah that her first name or last name first name okay so imagine her with a ball and a beer. So I see her, it was a ball beer.

She would, like, look up. Probably the first person that ever knew, like, her name. And every time I see her, like, I see that, that image just fucking pops up. Boom. But she didn't have a name tag? She did, but I couldn't read it. Okay. But most people, here's the problem.

It ain't hard to remember someone has a name ball beer. It's hard to remember Matt, Emily, John, Todd, boring-ass, corny, normal. normal names, okay? You'll remember Bob Beer. You'll remember that. See, the problem is, I'm a idiot. But here's the problem. I have a catchy name, okay?

And people, when people remember my name, they don't just remember it. I get one of the, Doc, you know, they give, they're like, they want to let me know, and I remembered your cool-ass name. And then they look at you. They give you the look like, okay, I remembered your cool-ass name. What am I getting? And then you just like, yeah, thanks, man. Death him up, all right, I got to go.

Or actually, see, here's my oldest trick in the book, right? What you do is I have my girlfriend with me. And I'll introduce, hey, this is my girlfriend, Jasmine. And then they have to fucking introduce themselves. And then I don't remember the name. And I put all the chips on them. It's devious, right? No, actually, that's smart.

No, smart. I think that is I think that is an element of caring when you still want to know the person's name. I don't. I don't really, listen. I want the chip. I want the chip, right? Listen, if people cared about names

and remembering them, they'd find a happy medium. So I say you have one group of people who are very boring. Oh, we're going to name him William. Are you now? Wow. It took a lot of effort for that one. The Bible, I assume.

And then, you know, My black people, they took it too far. They got too creative, right? They took all the crayons and went to the, you know, the playroom. And it's, you know, Jadavian, you know, Quanis. It's like, yo, there's too much creativity. I need something right in the middle, right? Between normal boring names and people like taking peyote and creating names out of like,

you know, those, the letters that go on the fucking, the magnetic letters. the alphabets that go on the the the uh refrigerator the what is scrambling don't don't it's it's it should no all right get it get it together all right i just want something in the middle sorry it was a rant and i apologize everyone's listening it's good i think everyone probably just turned off the show right there no we need we need we need to hear that it's very important there are people out there they're like you insulted the bible and black people thank you doc no it's all love we're gonna hear it in the comments. Comment in the comment section.

It's all love. It's all. I think you can say that after anything. They're like, listen, Hitler had a point, but it's all love. And then it kind of, it races everything.

Oh, when they, when they, that'll definitely get quoted. They'll just cut out of context. All perfect. The, the,

the classic movie, cliche, it's only business. It's not personal. It's not personal. Yeah. That you can, you can,

I say that after anything. You say it to anything. Yeah. It doesn't make it right. Blame capitalism. You know, it wasn't for capitalism, you couldn't say that. But it's like, yo, man, got to turn a profit, all right? That's why we had to burn down that village.

Well, what's business? Yeah. Do you, I'm so ignorant to, like, politics. I need to get at least somewhat. No, you don't. Be happy. Be happy. All right.

You don't live a lot longer. Okay, no, don't see me, I'm going the way. I'm trying to unlearn what I've learned. I'm trying to go the other way. It doesn't help, you know, because you know why? What's going on now? All people angry at each other and yelling and storming the capital and shit. Yeah.

It's not political. It's cultural. It's tribalism. It's all just finding things that poke your lizard brain. and get emotional reaction. And so it's all war to get people to get on, I need to convince people of this, so I'm going to manipulate them

and create this team. Team A, team B. And we hate each other. Why? We do. They're evil. And that's all it is. So it's, you know,

in the last four or five years, you have a bunch of people who are not political. And now all of a sudden or have entered the space but it's like in a sense you ever see one of those movies

where someone wakes up with amnesia and they don't know who they are and they have no history that's what these people are like they don't it's like nothing happened before 2015 and then they come in and they're like listen let me tell you what's going on

I went on the thing called the YouTube and they watch eight YouTube videos and now they want to tell you about shit you've been studying for 20 years and you know and you know and they have no historical basis so it's difficult to actually have

reasonable recourse when everyone doesn't have common contextual historical reference points yeah and uh and because it's all around winning a culture war and so

if me and you and have a conversation we're just talking that's beautiful but if I'm trying to like convince you of all my points as almost as if I'm like a lawyer right? Like if I'm a defense lawyer I'm just going to say all the shit that helps my guy and hurts the prosecution

and the prosecution to do the exact opposite but that's not the truth that's that's technique to just win you over but we should not care about all that we should care about the truth not the well-crafted you know argument

that is, you know, that is not, it's not in good faith. Yeah. Anyway. No, I like that. It's right. Stay happy. Don't, don't get involved. It's not going to, you know, probably, it's just going to get worse.

So, yeah. Because, you know, I don't know. It's a rabbit hole. We don't want to. Oh, no, no. No. Yeah, it's that, that subject, that subject and religion is really tough. You can only have those conversations with, like,

close friends that are truly open-minded. It's all good. But even then, who knows? I feel like, do we even need to talk about religion anymore? It's like, you're not going to convince anybody. That's why I don't really feel why it's worth talking about. Yeah. Because people generally feel how they feel.

I don't feel a need to convince anyone differently of how they feel. If that works for you and you're not hurting anybody, have fun. Cool. Pretty easy. Yeah. But I am starting a religion, though, so. Oh, okay. I'm sick of paying taxes

Okay, so So this is this going to be So this is why you're on a podcast So what do we got to plug What do we have to plug? I knew a new religion Listen, I haven't really Put it together yet

But it's in the workshop phase Who cares, sign me up Well, I think I saw a YouTube clip Well, I think, listen, if you want to make some money These days, okay It will turn into religion But it starts with a cult

Okay So really it's a cult You got to Everyone's in the cult business All right Where you got to get everyone To basically only believe you Right

And distrust everyone And then you get to bang all the ladies So So I guess I'd be at the top of this cult Right If it's my cult Right It's an important rule

Yeah I don't know Maybe that'd be What was it There was that movie I'm not here with Waukeen Phoenix Remember this?

No Where he basically made his life a movie. This is where he went on, what was it, David Letterman. Oh, that was that? Yeah. Okay. Where he, like, pretend he was going to be a rapper and all this stuff. But I'm like, but it was all like a troll.

Yeah. But maybe someone can do this where they, they're like, I'm going to see if I can actually start a cult and see if people will buy it. Maybe that'll be my new project. Yeah. Well, at this point, you know. Seems like a lot of work, though. Because the problem is you start the cult as a joke and then you get to the, there, you're like, you know what, I'm kind of enjoying.

You're like, wow, people are actually following me. That's right. I'm making a lot of money, all right? I'm getting, you know, to bang all the ladies. You know, like, look, listen, I'm taking this job seriously, so I clearly have to go through with all this, you know, that's part of it. There's no cult where the one guy doesn't bang all the ladies. You know, David Koresh did it. It's not.

Right? Sometimes the guys, too. Yeah? Okay. Listen, it sounds reasonable. What is it? Jonestown? that guy, he banged some guys as well.

Did he? See? I think he did. Respect. You know? He just went for it all. He didn't want to leave anything on the table. He wanted it all and I definitely admire that. That's that ego. That's right. It could have been the ego. Yeah. No, right now. What happens to me you have a big ego?

What's that? You see what happens to me you have a big ego? I mean, that's that's at the heart of it. But my obsession lately was like any documentary that has to deal with either cults or conmen And sometimes that can be the same story. Oh, wow. But I'm really into that.

On Netflix? Anywhere. I don't care where they're at. I'll watch any of them, but that's my favorite, my favorite ones. You have any recommendations from what Jerry Club tells me you're pretty big on shows and movies? Generation Hustle. Generation Hustle. It's on HBO Max.

It's a 10-parter with each episode covers a different con man or con person. Yeah. And I like that. It's like, I'm a con person, sir. Well, dang. But, yeah, I love that stuff. The psychology behind it is fascinating. It is.

Like that, it's like, man, what are they thinking about? Well, most of them, hold on. I think it's actually, with regard to America, at least, I think we're the entrepreneurial mindset is all about fake it to you make it. So I think what it is is a lot of people have some natural talents. They don't start off meaning to be

con-artists. They try to do something legitimate and then it just fails and then they use lies and subterfuge and scams to kind of cover it up and it becomes out of control. And then this extent, this can go on

for years and by the end of it they've screwed over however many people and ripped off how many people and they kind of look up but I think people generally need to think that they're a good person so I think people always rationalize and justify in their mind their actions

to kind of come out of it and go I didn't mean to do that and I you know it's it's fascinating it's a fascinating subject matter it is that and I'm trying to plan to bring this one up and that and like the serial killers

or that know why we're so drawn to that subject. Well, the serial killers themselves are not that fascinates me. Actually, I did watch the one about Son of Sam on Netflix. Son of Sam. I've been hearing about that. It's all right. This coffee

is really making me burp a lot. It's crazy. It's all good. We don't have to edit this out. We're going to edit this out, right? Yeah. All the burping. I feel like Rick and Morty over here. No, we're going to crank it. So the Son of Sam yes, it's embarrassing. The Son of Sam won what was interesting about?

that is that basically there's these theories that are more or less proven that he didn't do it on his own and that there was a there was a cult involved with that like a satanic cult that was connected to all these other cults and that element of it is is pretty fascinating in general i don't really find serial killers that interesting but wow so it's just the it's just the psychology of the uh con person yes but was by the way can also be a cult leader. They go hand in hand. The cult leaders are also con artists as well. So I guess it falls under that umbrella. But I'll watch any of those with a Bickram Yoga one. I watched the

what was that? Is it Wild Summer? Whatever that thing's called? Wild, no, Wild Country. Wild Wild Wild Country. That's a Netflix one. Love it. Wild Country. Good one. Then we'll watch that one. Yeah. There's one on WeWork.

New York. Yeah. What draws you to con artists? I've known some really, some in my life. Do you find a common thread between them? I almost hate to say some of this stuff because I don't want to,

it honestly, it just seems like they're, it's disproportionately, a lot of them seem to be adopted. So I think it's, it's a lot of people as young people either were abused, did not get the love that they needed. And so they tend to value money and power and access.

And maybe they didn't have the wherewithal to do those things legitimately. So like I said, they just kind of faked it to they make it or they kind of have a fantasy. Right. And it's this idea that a lot of people just believe, a lot of the literature, self-help literature and things like that all tell you can manifest whatever reality you want. And so if you just believe and if you just, you know, it's like if you build it, they will come. And so you just, I think a lot of people realize that most people are generally pretty trusting, right? And so because of that, people don't walk up, don't walk around the day, think everyone that comes up to them is a liar.

And so people use that general trusting nature of humanity to basically screw over the system and go, wait a second, everyone over here is playing by these rules. But I don't have to play by those rules. And so you kind of realize that, you know, I can kind of just do my own thing. and I don't have to I don't have to and I can you can it's just amazing

what you can kind of get away with so it's this it's this interesting thing where I think you have some people over here who say well I you know

I want to be a good person and do the right things and follow the rules and some people go yeah fuck the rules that's just put in there by the slave masters you know you're

it's like that that thing from Goodfellas where they go they started to look at normal people as like suckers. People who like work normal jobs and because they're like, oh, they're just

the quote unquote good people. Yeah, they're just sheep. Yeah, they're just sheep. Like if you want to get ahead, you have to do whatever you have to do. Right. And to some degree, it's kind of true. Like, I also think about this.

Like, look at hip hop, for example, right? Like, Jay-Z, Biggie. Like, they talk about selling drugs. Like, their whole music is about being criminals. Right up until the point. point that they made enough money from doing music where they didn't have to be a criminal. But it doesn't kind of undo that they felt the need to buck the system to get ahead because they felt like in many of those situations, they felt like they didn't have any other options,

right? But does it make it make it right? I don't know. You know, there's this other, there's this new guy, this guy, T.J., whatever the hell's name is, X6 or whatever. He's like does credit card scams. and like identity theft and Instagram scams. And his whole shit is about scamming people.

That's all his songs. And he teaches his fans how to be scam artists. It's a bug out. And then I started to think about it. I'm like, well, how's he any different than NWA? They're killing people in their songs and they're like, you know, I mean, ghetto boys, like talking about raping people in songs. And what's the difference?

It's just new. It's just a new kind of crime. You know? Yeah, a different guy. Is it similar to maybe like Eminem where maybe they're just, he's just talking about it? No, this dude is one. You see this dude? It's like, he looks like a sociopath.

Like he's, like there's like a screw missing. And he's definitely doing it. And he has followers. No, it's massive. It's insane. He's not even a good rapper at all. But, you know. I don't know if I've lost kind of the plot a little bit here, but, but anyway, but I'm fascinated with these people because, A, I think it's important to understand the mindset so you don't get, you don't get involved with any of these people.

Even though they've, you know, they've shown, you know, being screwed over by a caught up in a scam is nothing to do with really your intelligence. It can happen to anyone. And it's, yeah, it's, I don't know, it's just, it's just, it's just fascinating. fascinating to me, like the lengths people will go to, you know. And a lot of times they don't get in trouble for it. Because especially now in the internet age, there's so much fraud that there's literally not enough man hours for the police and the FBI to go after all these people. So you can just kind of get away with shit pretty easily.

Oh, man. Dude, these hackers got $5 million in Bitcoin from this power company for, they held them hostage, like the one of the pipelines for gas on the East Coast. And dude, this happens all the time. And they always get their money, pretty much. What? And you're just like, dude, it's, it's kind of crazy. It's kind of, you start finding about like, like, bank robberies in the 80s.

Like, the motherfuckers would rob like 20 banks and wouldn't get caught. Like, whoa. And now you just do it online. Yeah. It's like crime is a wild thing. I've learned a lot about the justice system in the last few months. It's actually not that easy to get people who are doing crime. Yeah.

Not as much you think. Yeah, it's the, it's just the hours it takes to, you know, catch them. Yeah. It's pretty much impossible. That's why people are bringing it back. That's why all these dudes want to like, to like conceal carry. It was like, they just want to bring it back to the old Western days, right? Yeah.

Everyone just walks into town. It's like Bill Marmaduke, you owe me $2. You know? And you just shoot that motherfucker in the streets. They got these like stand your ground laws in like Florida. You know, it's like if you feel like you're in danger, you can just shoot somebody. Dang. And you just get away with that.

I'm like, that's just cowboy times. That's all that is. It's like, you don't call the cops? Nope, got my shotgun. Gonna do a little vigilante justice out here. I was in danger. Man. I'm like, we're going.

That's old school, for real old school. Florida and what other state? It's a, it's a, it's a bunch of states, maybe like 10, 10, 12 states. Texas is one of them, right? I think so.

I think it is, but there's some proposed legislation to roll it back, but I don't know. It's a pretty odd situation. You know, by the, I'm repeating shit I saw in John Oliver, so I know people look at this,

probably think I'd look like a liberal cucked soy boy. You cugs. But it is, it's, you know, I'm not making, I'm just saying it's a little strange, right? Y'all don't, don't shoot me, all right? No, it's good. I like that, even though it sucks that it's happening. I like when, I like when it's brought up and you say that because then some people, like myself, need to be reminded.

Oh, yeah, that's, that's out there. I mean, if I should be, if you can, just be careful with whatever. Listen, don't talk no shit in any of those states because you will get shot. for just looking crazy to somebody. You know, don't look at nobody. Don't talk to anybody. And, you know, unless you got, unless you two have a gun.

All right. That's what it's going to be. Everyone will have a gun. You just going to, you're going to walk into a CVS and just come with your gun. All right. I'm a body's gum.

Don't nobody move and they don't have a gun on you. And you just put your, you know, you put your ATM card in. All right. All right, I'm leaving. And it's like, you won't even rob the shit, but you just,

you walk it backwards. Yeah, you just, you come in, with the gun so everyone knows, you know, it's, there's no nothing illegal happening. We're just, we're just going to be, we're afraid of everyone all the time. All right. I don't know if it's exactly a healthy thing, but what do I know? No, it's good to be aware of it.

It's kind of sucks. Like, you know, I'll be going out, you know, having like, you know, dinner with your, your girlfriend. I'm sitting down. Like, where's the exits? Okay. There's one there and one there. It's just sitting down. Like, just trying to, like, have a good day.

And like, oh, this is like my, this is my thought process right now. I've literally never thought that ever. Oh. No way you know, never thought about that. I've never thought. No, my girlfriend does, but I just don't think about that. I'm like, is that, like, I grew up in the hood, all right? Yeah.

I just don't, I just don't think about that shit. I don't know. But because you grew up in the hood, wouldn't you be more aware of that? No, here's how it works for me. Is the street sense, it's like spighty sense. You just know when you're walking down the street, it's just a feeling. Got it. You're like, and that feeling, you just start, you know, you put your hood up.

Something's about to go down. And then you think about who am I going to rob? Because if you look like you robbing people, they will probably not rob you. Okay. That's always been my thing. And if you have a Starbucks cup, get rid of it. Because people know if you have a Starbucks cup, you're of no threat. They're like, that dude's a punk over there.

Look at him. He can't. You can't drink lattes and fight. Doc, that's a great tip, man. As silly as silly as that might sound. If you see a tough-looking dude and coming your way and he's got a Starbucks cup, you're safe.

All right. Unless he listen to this and he knows that and he put his pistol in the cup, then you might have to worry about it. But that's, you know, these are my little theories. You know what? I feel like the likelihood

something crazy is going to happen in the place you're at is so low that if it's going to happen, just get got, you know, just, it was your,

you were the one in a million person that happened to be caught in a drive-by shooting at Del Taco and just take the bullet, all right. Do it, you know,

there was just, that's right. Okay, I mean, I guess it was 181 in like the Bronx during, you know,

the work, you really have to worry. But most of these situations, actually, you're around here, this is like a lot of gangs around here, right?

And Crodat? Yeah. No, it's pretty, uh, it's. Riverside. Riverside, it's the more, uh, the more east you go on. Okay. So I didn't know if it was particularly sketchy around here, if you have to worry. I don't know.

No, this is a pretty nice area. Obviously, you know, most towns have their, the areas where I probably wouldn't walk down. Yeah. Uh, past, you know, 10 p.m. on some streets around here. But, you know, it's fairly a safe, but yeah, once you go down. Okay. I don't know. This is a cow.

West Coast crime. and like gang stuff is the strangest thing when you come from the East because the East Coast when you're in a fucked up place it looks fucked up right you're like oh it's like dirt

on the ground and like the house is like missing a window and there's like a truck flipped over like it's grease you know it's you know it's it's a Kennedy

fried chicken and a check cashing place you know where the bad places are and on the West Coast it will look like a nice neighborhood and there's just thugs everywhere and you're like what how do you mow the lawn and ready to kill people like I don't understand you need to put it together I feel like it's just like it was too nice and people like you know we need to we really need to fuck this place up all right someone needs to get shot around here as let them know we ain't punks

despite our well-crafted lawns and mortgages that are paid on time yeah yeah it's kind of a California thing, especially, like San Bernardino County is to... Yeah, I just wish that's what I would do. I just wish I was invincible for a day or a few days, you know, like Superman. I just walk around and just shame people. Like, what's wrong with you? What are you doing? Pull your pants up.

Go to school, all right? What are you mad? He stepped on your foot. Who cares? Just go live your life. What are you doing, man? You know, I just, I was, I would. just do that and then they shoot me and then bounce off me.

And I'm like, come on, man, I'm Superman. You can't do nothing, you know? Yeah. You know, I just... That's right. I wouldn't beat them up. I would just shame them. But then since they couldn't do anything to me physically, they'd have to listen.

You know? I don't know if it would work, though. It would be a perfect world. No, I'm sure they wouldn't listen to me. I would probably have to, like, you know, scare them. So if you could be a superhero for one day, it will be Superman. No.

No, if I could be a superhero, it would be the power I would want I've never seen in any movie or comic book, which is I would have the power to make crazy people sane. Whoa. Like people with like mental who are like talking to like the trees and shit, I would just come and like, zh, and then they would be like, oh shit, thanks, bro.

And then they go and like get their shit together. Like cure people with mental disabilities. That would be my power. I'd be like Mother Teresa, start wearing a turban. Then I can start a cult. So it's always a twist, right? Well, I'm just saying, I'd be a popular guy. That's all I'm saying.

You're pretty popular. That's a pretty cool superpower, man. I never heard that before in my life. Well, think about all superpowers, right? You'd be watching these movies or these comic books, and it's like every power they have is like their skin is granted. Or they can, like, shoot. They always shoot some things that destroy things out of their hands.

But no one ever shoots, you know, chocolate sauce out of their hands. No one ever, you know, no one ever shoots Sherbert, you know, or soap. It's like, yo, man, it's dirty right here. We need some soap, soap, man. You know, it's always something, fire, you know, ice, but it's never like helpful ice. You know, it's always, I'm a freeze a motherfucker. Like, you see that. Helpful ice.

I mean, you got a drink. Okay. Okay. I'm just saying like, do you just see that new Mortal Kombat terrible-ass movie? Oh, you didn't like it? Who would like it? Okay. It's a terrible movie.

It's funny you bring it up. I already knew you were not going to like that movie. I already knew that. Oh, tell us. That scene with Sub Zero and Jacks is sick. No, it's not. Okay. So here's the, so here's, I'm not even going to address the whole movie.

Okay. I'm going to see. Oh, the scene. where Jack's, you know, a tough guy from the video game, just gets his ass whooped instantaneously for no reason. He's like, all right, guys, you keep it moving. I'm going to stay back. This movie has a gun, right?

Doesn't fire the gun once, okay? And if you've played Mortal Kombat, I don't know if you guys know this. Sub-Zero is not Superman in the game. It's not like, oh, if I play Sub-Zero, I'm winning every match. He's on even par with anything. but they turn this motherfucker into God in the movie and it's like yo stop that

all right you can't have all the ice ice can't solve all the problems like they just turn him into Magneto but with ice so he's just destroying everyone I'm like I think this guy's too powerful and then all the good guys

do nothing but get their ass whooped for the entire first hour of movie I'm like this is hopeless this dude you know no that movie was terrible all right he is not makes up zero

a normal character ice should be helpful but it shouldn't be I can control it's like he's Magneto and Storm and Ice Man in one dude

all right get out of here with that damn shit everything they need to stop making non-superhero movies superhero movies right

every movie now action movies is a superhero movie right John Wick is a superhero is a superhero movie

okay John Wick cannot be killed all right This motherfucker killed 275 assassins in John Wick 2, all right, on a bum leg. I all scratched up. I'm like, yo, that's not how it works, all right? We've watched MMA, right?

Dudes have a run, right? They whoop an ass, then they get their ass whoops. And then they kind of, sometimes they win and someone's lose. This doesn't how it works. If you're shooting guns, law of averages, someone will shoot, you're just going to catch a few bullets. it's not how it works. You cannot just avoid, like you're not just that good

at evading bullets. There's no person that can, you know what I'm saying? I'm sorry, that's a superhero movie, Fast and Furious. That's a superhero movie. These motherfuckers jump

cars off of mountains into tornadoes and then land them on a tank that's in the ocean and everyone's fine. And then when dudes die, they just come back to life anyway. Superhero.

movie. Superhero movie. I didn't really think about that movie that way. It is a superhero movie. They're all superhero movies. So you don't like John Wicks? No, I like John Wicks. Okay. I haven't liked the Fast and Furious movies. They're just all superhero movies. Oh, okay. I'd like die hard where you're like, yo, that dude is fucked up and he barely wins, right? Yeah. You know, I don't like... You like then your

movies to be a little more realistic. Well, I just want a little variety. Can I have some that are realistic? Some that are ridiculous. You know, it's just... It's not... I love action. but there's very little tension if the hero's invincible. Got it.

It's true. It's got to be some vulnerability there, right? Exactly. You should get into writing for movies. Oh, I don't think I haven't started. All right. I'm working on it. Get it. Yeah.

Oh, so much time in the day though. Yep. Well, Doc, I don't want to keep too much of your time, brother. It was awesome. And I think we'll park and go out and get some more coffee. Yeah, I love coffee. Coffee and maybe a brittal? You're not for brito?

I love I love food too Food pizza That's right I need to check on my puppies at home Make sure she's okay Of course You know She's make sure she's not tearing up the house

Which she might be but We'll see And I'm missing the Lakers game So just understand I'm sorry about that That's right the playing game Right now which you guys will know The answer to when this comes out

You'll know who I've won But I don't know right now So Hopefully LeBron didn't score 40 in the first quarter And I missed that shit Dang Yeah Chris He missed that

Well, I miss a lot of, I miss like half the game. You did. Well, we appreciate your sacrifice in being here, and you couldn't see the Laker game. I apologize. It's right. I'm going to put it on right as soon as it's done. Do I have anything to plug? No, I don't really have anything to plug.

Just follow me on the internet's at dot coil. Bad Wolf's Patreon. Yeah, that's pretty much it. My show, The X-Man podcast. Check that out. Check that podcast. I'm on another show called Last Words, which is on, YouTube under the Pit, which is a website, and that's also a podcast as well. So I'm around,

easy to find. Cool. All right. Well, Doc, thank you. And until, until next time, man. Thank you, brother. Cheers, man. Yes. All right, everyone. Later. Peace.