Garza Podcast - 154 - JINJER

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Garza sits down in-person with Roman Ibramkhalilov & Eugene Abdukhanov from Ukrainian band JINJER. https://linktr.ee/JINJER SUPPORT & MERCH: https://garzapodcast.myshopify.com CHAPTERS: 00:00 - A Podcast Years In the Making 01:15 - Musical Technique VS Song Writing 03:39 - Is Jinjer a Technical Band? 06:08 - Writing Songs 08:02 - Recording Techniques Then VS Now 11:00 - Modelers VS Amps On Stage 16:33 - Hiring Ukrainian Crew Members 19:19 - How Jinjer Met & Formed 23:41 - Renting a Mansion in Ukraine as a Band 25:20 - Quitting Their Jobs to Play Music 28:11 - The Early Days, Losing Drummer to Injury 32:40 - How Vlad Joined the Band 36:31 - Approach to Writing 45:01 - Roman’s Signature Jackson Guitar, Not Playing 7 String 48:04 - Jinjer Teaches Garza “Vortex” Guitar Riff 52:09 - The Guys Play Together 53:37 - “As I Boil Ice” Riff 57:16 - Writing Sober 58:06 - New Music 59:44 - Touring With Disturbed, Mainstream Bands 1:02:45 - Watching Bands Live 1:05:09 - Following Instinct VS Setting Goals, Ego 1:07:47 - Following Trends, Passion 1:09:58 - Eugene’s Security Guard Job 1:12:05 - Tipping Culture Differences 1:20:27 - Perfection is Impossible 1:22:10 - Practice & Warm Up Routine 1:24:33 - Difficulty Playing High Gain Amps 1:31:18 - Jackson, Neural DSP, Warlord Guitars

Roman and Eugene, I don't think I ever seen so much gear in here. It's not so much, man. Well, it could be more. We got two bases. Never enough. It's never enough, dude. We try to make this happen last year, so it's nice to actually make it happen this year.

Yeah, man, it's cool to be here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mic is here. We tried to make it a couple of times. as far as I remember, at least two. So this is the third. Yeah, 2021, it was a year to make a podcast with us. Mm-hmm.

And then, now with 2024. Three years later? Three years. This is three years in the making. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. You guys, you both introduced me to Splifts.

I just want to say, I really appreciate that. You know, and Ginger was, you know, so thank you for you guys for, taking suicide out on that tour and that was like the first you guys were the first band that I like I was like watching and then I was like I need to practice oh

thank you yeah remember I told you that yeah yeah I told me that I'm like you guys are like you guys make me want to practice yeah you know what I have the band like this when I want to like just throw my guitar out these animals as leaders oh yeah

After I awarded them the first time was like I know they're like technical and YouTube or stuff. We played one festival together. It was like fuck. It's like it's like it's a level. Fortunately for me they don't have a bass guitarist. Yeah.

Imagine it. Yeah, it doesn't matter. They play instruments the way like they all can play bass too. It's just a level which cannot be accessed. It's accessible somewhere. The bar is it seems that do you say it's like the bar is just like there is no bar anymore? I don't know.

It's a very relative question because we, what we are talking now is only technicality and the technical aspects of we are playing, but the music is not only about that. Yes. There are a different way of self-expressionesions through music. Yeah, different music is like sometimes just two fucking chords. and it's like a great song yeah it's like some people think like

the young people I think that if you go like technical as fuck you will success with it like songwriting or like yeah they want to achieve only the technique and they stuck with the technique and it's not music in this

it's a sport yeah yeah yeah because technique and songwriting are two different things right well it's all you need to have it Yeah, you need to have some technique to write a song. If you need to play technical, there's metal.

You need to play technical shade. But yeah. Still, like, it was a lot of time that I hear the opinion that, like, oh, I need to achieve only the technique and that's it. Like, when I play as fast as they can, the drummers, guitar players, whatever. Yeah. But at the end, I was, like, listen to their music. I was like, okay.

But it's not for me. Maybe it's cool. for sports yeah yeah what we're the music sports what is it's a little well your band's a little bit unique in that way

like would you like would you guys consider ginger a technical band me not wow it's a hard question yeah so

for example who you compare with yeah oh so wow you guys put it back on me weird I guess I wasn't comparing to anybody.

I was just, I guess I'm very like, you know, 4-4. I don't go past the first two frets, you know. But 4-4 is not about technicality. Yeah. 4-4 is about the feel. So you can play a note, but in such rhythmical constructions just in the sections that it's just be one note. You don't need to be technical to play one note,

but the rhythmical signatures are hard, and it's all about how you feel the music, how you feel rhythm. It's not technicality. It's something else. It's the same as groove. You cannot have groove by means of technique. It's not technique.

It's just how you feel. When a drummer, there are a lot of super technical drummers. They play super fast. You see them playing and you cannot believe your eyes and your ears that it's so fast. Yeah. But there is no groove. They play just if you see them, if you see what they play after recording just in the grid,

it's just perfectly there, but it's missing the feel. So it's, it depends on music. Sometimes music is technical. There's a metal. They don't need to have a groove. It doesn't need to have it, yeah. But very often I just myself came across with musicians who are super cool at technicality. This is very excellent.

But they're missing the feel in their playing. And I'm not saying it's bad. It's just their own way. They prefer to do it like that. They never develop the other skills. They develop these particular skills which they need in their music. And it's fine. It just shows that there are so many ways to express yourself.

And, yeah, it's my maestrap. I felt like with the guitar it would be better. like I have To make noise Yeah It makes noise Cut them Okay so that would

That would explain it Because you guys So there's no rules Really assist Whatever like the groove Takes you That's where you're gonna go So it doesn't matter

What you're playing It doesn't matter The time signature It's whatever It's wherever the groove takes you In some way Yeah you can say it like this

Because like me a lot of riffs I wrote it was like I have a rhythm and then I put the melody in this shit and it starts like this for me I don't know how did you what did you get that from like that that I mean that mindset is this we just writing the songs like this is it I never really heard someone explaining it in that way you guys told me are we technical compared to who

I kind of mind-fucked myself wow okay so basically no definitely there are technical pieces there are some parts in most of the songs which are hard to play

okay really hard to play but if we take our song let's say any and compare it with the song by the faceless of course the faceless is more technical because the whole music is built on technical complexity okay we love technical shit but it's it's not an idea to like write it like technical zone as fuck so yeah it's not a goal we just need to write like sound like maybe with the some technical parts

and then like just two riffs two chords and that's it and that what i love from new metal era you're also a big fan of like all this yeah that allow the like system of a down limb biscuit corn all this on lincoln park sleep notice was not so complicated music yeah yeah but it still it was different music from like each other it's still use the same amps that sound different from that era I love the sound of new metal era yeah because was everyone using pretty much the same amps like mesa like corn limb biscuit and then it sounds fucking different. Absolutely different. Yeah.

It's sound-wise, I must say that probably the beginning of the 2000s, production-wise, it was the golden era of music because if we just, maybe I'm biased, but it seems to me that if we give a listen

to all those old records of the early 2000s and compare them, at least in my opinion, in too taste if we compare them to what we have now it's just like night and day in terms of quality at least to my years yeah everything used to be produced in a very very expensive way if i can say so yeah and all the bands sounded differently it's just it's nowadays we have like a a trend that if something goes mainstream everybody else just wants to

copy yeah back in the days maybe i'm I am wrong, but it seems to me that if something goes mainstream, the others just say, okay, this is mainstream, it's not cool anymore, let's do something else. Maybe not, maybe the industry was not the same. Like 20 years ago, it was not like digital sales, like streams. It was a different market and if you see like music videos, like millions of in this music videos, like Cornland biscuit. And then it's gone.

And then home recording, over-processed music. But it's still the process, I think. It's all good. A lot of people have opportunity to show them music. It's just like a different way of doing things. You know, is it better or not? No, I can just say better or worse. Nobody's saying, nobody's saying it's better.

Yeah, everything has its pros and cons. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like, as people, we tend to be just mistaken very often. When we think of evolution, in everything, all the aspects of our life, we kind of think of evolution as a progress, but evolution is not a progress. Yeah, and it is just a change. It's just a change. The world is changing. It doesn't mean that it is getting better by no means.

It's true. Yeah, especially with like You know, I'm in a very Kind of crazy spot Because I was like a hater With like the quadquortex stuff Like like the digital Because musicians tend to be like

They always want the brand new thing You know? Not all of them but You know what? I just I don't like about motorists Like before I got the quad cortex I don't like the You can improve like

For the production for the live shows you can sound good and nobody cares but if you start to play the guitar the feelings of you playing it's not the same so and you start to miss this one this but this one give me feelings of like I feel like it's more close at the real amp just yeah this one if just any modelers on the market so if you do a blind test Roman oh the old blind test I don't know, for playing, I will recognize the amp for sure. If I like ears, maybe yes, maybe not, I don't know. Because I capture my sound and I just have like just test A-B test.

I capture with this torpedo loadbox. So I don't need to have a cabinet to capture the sound. Yeah. So and I capture the sound and then record one riff. And then I put the same IR in torpedo and with the real head, I record the same riff. And it's pretty much the same sound. Wow. And I was impressed.

And that time I was like, yeah, I need this. Because, yeah, the feelings of playing, it's, yes, like the guitar head and the cabinet, the cabinet is a, like, very important part of the chain because you give you a feeling of real playing. Do you still use cabs? Yeah, yeah. Use cabs. Like on tours, yeah, I use cab with the mics. And also it is like second line, which is go digital like Sasha, our sound engineer.

So it's two cabinets, Sasha just every day maybe mix one cabinet mic and one like IR from here. The line which is consists of this capture and the air. of the same head but so when the festivals comes I use only this white cortex but on the tours yeah man playing the cabinet is different

like I love the feeling I love the sound more than it yeah I can hear it I can feel it you got to feel it man yeah sure even I have a cabinet like side of a stage side of stage we made some room with like this foam you know like the cabinet like room for the cabinet

and bring two mics. Okay. Like, yeah. Isolation room. Yeah. Around the cabinet. Oh. Like walls.

Form walls. We make the cabinet, like room for the cabinet. Is that mic? Yeah. Yeah. Like real, like here I have a messa. And then you put the mics and you, I, I, I did by ourselves this, like, walls with a form. Yeah.

Yeah. I know, studio like this. Wait. Yeah. And then you put this like, boom, you make room. And then you have. No reflection sounds really good. Pretty much as a life.

Wait, so is this on the stage? Yeah, yeah, it's like, you never see. So wait, I'm lost. Do you use the quad cortex and a mesa? Yeah, yeah. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's sad.

Both, yeah. I have left right here. That's what you're saying. I was like, wait, we were just talking about the quad cortex. And now I don't know where they came out of a cab being like a real cap. No, real cap, real cap. yeah and so this it goes with four cable method to the head and then i control my head by this one and so the second line goes left right like this digital only digital i'll show you later man

weird i will send you my preset and so you can you can see so you need to have a hat we send and return and input and that's it you can like this four cable method it's pretty simple it's pretty simple yeah yeah sounds not yeah but yeah it sounds not simple but yeah it's it's easy man it's like it's really easy well why but why use the head if you have the quad cortex because no because the so I use the head because head head in the cabinet this is the best sound for me okay and on our tours or if we travel by buses or wherever not flying Okay. I have my cabinet and a head.

And I control it by quad cortex, like all the cleans, all the shit, like, it's gain reduction. And so... But I also use the second line, which consists of quad cortex capture of this head and impulse responses. So I use it if I fly and I use it without a cabinet. Okay. And but still on that show, I was cabinet. I play cabinet. So we also took two outs

and Sasha mixed them together, mics and digital and sometimes it worked really good. Ginger has always done your own thing. Man, we just... You've always been your own band. You know, and what I really like about about Ginger too when we were

first touring with you guys was you, you hired like your, everyone on your crew was from, the Ukraine like you didn't come here to tour and then get a bunch of people here you actually brought your crew over some some of them was americans yeah some yeah it's cool like like a sasha for yeah sasha and costa two guys yeah travel with us everywhere so the core of the crew yeah is like our guys yeah we we we never worked with anyone else than our sound engineer for

like since 2013 we've only had one guy on our sound Every fucking single show, every... Every show? Was done with one guy. Yeah. And the main problem was a crew. So I cannot hire the guitar tech from Ukraine because there is no one. Because it's no touring industry, no, like, people.

Like, it's only, like, Lou Chiers who, like repair guitars and cars. But it's not, not, no industry for this. Also, with a drum tech like this, it can be, like, a fellow brother drummer. Sure. And that's it. and yeah so sasha your sound you sound person has been with you for 2011 12 years 11 it's september october it will be the first time he did he did the show with us september 2013 yeah you really committed so even like when like because when you see that when you

see that bill of touring you try to figure out ways to save money you just you saw you saw you You saw a flight and said, fuck it. We're just going to take a thought. No, man, it's not about this. It's not really like true. Well, yeah. No. Everybody sees this attitude and dedication that we play a lot.

Yeah. But we just enjoy it. And it's separate from the aspect of, you know, money, fundings and budgets and things like that. But to be honest, everything we do is like clearly and thoroughly, planned and, you know, well-thought, so everything is budgeted. I mean, like, budgets are built, so everything is done in the proper way. But we just, yeah, we anyway, go and play wherever we're called, yeah, to play.

So why not? I mean, people want to see and hear us everywhere and we go and play. It's just, it was never even a question for us, I think, like, if we don't want to work. We want to work. Yeah, that's cool. How did you guys meet? I never asked you. Matt? Yeah.

How do you guys meet? Oh, me and Eugene? He was already in Ginger. Yeah, so Eugene played a different band from our region. So that's how we met. Yeah, we were just sharing stages, having fun, at parties. Then they needed the bassist, and that's why I ended up in the band. Hmm.

Did you, uh, did you, like, imagine, like, where it will go? or I think no one did yeah we just playing music it's a funny thing we I clearly remember us being in the rehearsal room 11 years ago 12 years ago let's say in Ukraine and we were not thinking about you know worldwide tours festivals we were just rehearsing you know playing together maybe once in a while we had a show here and there locally and we were happy with that but of course year just we wanted to go let's say to the capital and play to play at bigger festivals locally in

ukraine little by little like a snowball just became what we are now yeah yeah and that's that's pretty bizarre yeah when 2018 eugene just come to rehearsal i don't know how like it was i don't remember but he's like oh we have offer from the states we'll go to the states like states and really like i I never thought I would go to States, like one day to play music and States. It's fucking cool. Yeah, 2018. Yeah, but first time. I never think about I will play States. I was like, okay, like we play here, Europe, okay?

Like, I think it's too complicated, a lot of money and so, so on, so. Everybody was saying this to us, it's so hard to go to the States and tour. We, like. Actually, it's hard. It is hard, it is hard, though. But, like, if you meet me, 11, 12 years ago, I wouldn't believe that this happened to this band. We were not, we never, like, sat down in a room and never built a plan to become big.

We were not, you know, craving for this, even. We were, what was always with us is that once we had an offer, we just went and played. I don't remember any conversation about, like, yeah, it was never. Hey, guys, we need to go bigger. We need to do this for this. that dude for this for that no we don't even have we never had it so it's just each tour opera came and yeah we just yeah we just need to film a video like some deadline leaves that but we just never like sitting like oh we need to do this like in purpose or be more popular or not like

we never hear a conversation like this never and then we never had never had thoughts like this like to build fan base we need to do that yeah let's dress up to get some more fans or let's undress let's undress or let's get some corpse paint i need more blood in our videos nothing like that we never were doing any things like that there was no marketing okay let's to cut it short there was no marketing in this band ever interesting so even when uh even when the even when the time comes like hey we're going to tour full time like we need to like quit our jobs or something like just no no discussion we did it very early yeah so 2014 we just moved when the like we're starting

2014 in the region donbas donyatsk area and so we moved out and this was last day i like go to normal job yeah 2014 this is when we stopped working yeah everyone just we decided to go to another city and we ran the summer house outside of the city. It was five rooms. We built a rehearsal like this room. It was like rehearsal room. Okay. Maybe smaller.

And the small rooms for each member. We have like cats, dogs and stuff. Yeah. It was hard with water and electricity, but yeah. But we can play every day. So no one was like summer houses. And like it was no people around. Okay.

To let you understand it. I got it. They rented a mansion outside of the city. Yeah, we're cheap, really cheap, man. Really cheap, really cheap. Yeah, in the middle, on the side of the forest. Okay. And they were living there all together.

Inside us out of the city. Without me, I was in the city because I already had kids. Yeah, I was a family guy already. Yeah, but they were all living together. And so we moved to a different city. Nobody had jobs. But no one was even looking for jobs. So what we did, we did.

got small offers to play in bars like Romania Poland whatever like yeah Bulgaria okay yeah and we went and played those small shows with the fee which we got for the show was enough to pay the gas and the rent and we made money we made money on merch and we spent most of the year just on these stores because we were sustainable on tour and we came back home with some money in our pocket and after a month we go in another tour like one week tour maybe is like this depends

some small festivals around like Europe yeah so it was it was uh was it like a unspoken like we're we're gonna be a band full time because if you quit your job and you go off it wasn't spoken yeah it wasn't unspoken

we need to go now we just spoke like we need to go like we want to play in music we just finish our first ever European tour like this small bar tour you know and he was like too excited about it and was like let's go let's do it's nothing to do here

yeah but you quit your job though man it was shitty jobs like who cares okay well this it was not like we're didn't you do like warehouse jobs right didn't you come from like a warehouse job oh man yeah it's it's a one hour story about my job so yeah different

jobs give us a shot for yeah I cannot. You should. You should. It was like the... I don't know how to say in English. I'll help you.

Metal factory, I don't know. I was liquid metal. Metallurgical plant. Yeah, yeah. He worked. Yeah, I was like, when I was 18 years old, I was like the guy who, like, I make it tubes and all the shit, like, like, by hands. Okay.

It's liquid metal. Yeah, yeah. Still tubes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. It was good money. And I need to pay my university. Then I quit, like.

in five months, I think, or six months this job. It was like enough money to pay my university for a year. It's like a lot of these shitty jobs, man. It was not real jobs that are like, oh, okay, I will work like for 10 years for now. No carry opportunity, you know, it's like

you need to survive and that's it. Like eat something. Pay rent and yeah. So you just buy new strings, man, buy beer and yeah. Life was pretty much. New jeans, new sneakers and that's it it was like 200 bucks a month I think it's maximum in

ukraine's like not like it's it used to be a lot of yeah it's big money than here but it was still enough it's crazy because even when i talk to you now like i remember i remember you you talked about like your factory job and then you kind of set it in a way where yeah i'll i could go back any time no no no no no no no because it's like man, it's hard jobs. I was, like, young, but, yeah, when you, like, fucking, I don't know. In 50, you don't need to go to. It's hard jobs, man.

Your health is not so good enough. That sucks, dude. That sucks. No, I will not know, no. If you ask me, I don't want to go back to my jobs before the band. It was, yeah. What was your last job? I was.

Because you have kids. No, you just would translate her or teacher from English. I did. I did. I was. English teacher. I used to teach people English. That explains why. My English was better than now. Okay.

Yeah, but, and I also did translations. I used to work as a translator. Yeah. But besides that, I did a lot of other things while I was a student. And now people use Google translator and so don't need to you, man. Yeah, back in the days, actually, nobody had Google translator. So I had more work, jokingly. Okay, so you stayed, Eugene, so you stayed with your family, and then they lived in this word house by the forest.

Yeah, yeah, and he's like two times a week. I came to them to rehearse. How often? Twice a week? Yeah, twice a week. Yeah, twice a week. Sometimes three times, sometimes once. Depends.

Yeah, usually after we had the party, I would not come back for the whole week. Yeah. Because I had a handle. Oh. Yeah. Is that what you did the whole time? Did you just party the whole time? It was nonstop.

Yeah, it was in. someday like and then it was no money like it was like oh okay okay okay i guess no money no party okay i guess we will rehearse yeah but yeah yeah and that time also we moved and we have accident our drummer during tour fell out window and broke his spine and now and even now he's in wheelchair and yeah it was 2014 and then we find another drummer who played before Vlad and we had like... What happened in the accident?

Yeah, he fell out from the window. Everybody was asleep. We just... We were on tour, yeah. We were on tour and we had a day off on the way to the next city. And everybody went to sleep and he was the last one

and he sat on the window to smoke a cigarette just on the edge. guy like he was a very tall guy and the obviously as well these are all just speculation because no no witness no evidences we couldn't see what really happened he seemed to fall asleep right on the window and just fall out of the window third floor it's a sad story and he barely survived broke his spine got paralyzed it happened exactly ten years ago yeah yeah

September 24 yeah that's sad man fuck yeah broke his spine man yeah but he's now playing guitar

he's a good guitar player he's just a great musician yeah and he like play guitar do some studio like mixing and mastering for some people some like some studio plays in some band

guitar yeah so it's a beautiful example of, you know, willpower, which is great. Yeah, but it was a great blow to the band. Like, maybe the biggest ever. Because we were in the situation, like the hometown, the home region where we come from, it's in war,

and we couldn't go back, obviously. The band is in a suspended position. like the drummer is heavily injured and it's it was very serious yeah and we didn't know what to do like we have a tour in this is him this is Eugene yeah that's that's Eugene he looks he looks tall even sitting down yeah with his knees almost touching his ears yeah so yeah and then we have a tour in like months and a half i think and then we found the drummer in the internet through our kind of guys friends and he like with his girlfriend he he also was from our region he moved to belorussia and we found him he like

filmed for us some video to like yeah and then we're like oh man that's cool let's play and he came to he came with yeah in this fucking house yeah he's like oh god god guys it's no water he was with his girlfriend so it's like not easy for him i think yeah but yeah we play we rehearsed two times a day like in the morning and the evening so we have we're one month to the tour oh okay that's why yeah and that's why we rehearsed and yeah he played everything 100% well on the first show yeah and then he too and he played with us until 2016 yeah and he's like i don't want to right i don't want just i won't just he's like studio guy i won't just focus on this side of like music production how did you guys find plod we know him

and yeah so it was a question who will play in eugene one day wasn't keith and like just met him is like man will play for us he's like oh you you don't look for anyone else like i will play yeah yeah yeah because he used to work yeah he filled yeah he filled one show for us yeah it's a story we we had a an offer to play in poland small festival and uh we had an issue uh our then drummer dima he was deported from poland and he couldn't get a visa for the other half a year because he was late like couple of hours yeah he was six hours late to the border to the border yeah and he He got a deportation stamp, so just for half a year, not much, but anyways, not pleasant because he couldn't go and play.

And Vlad showed up and volunteered to, you know, just substitute for a show. And we played with him with him a show a year after Dima leaves the band. And, well, I was not far away from the shop where Vlad used to work. It was a music shop. He sold guitars, yeah. And I... In drums. Yeah.

I went in there. told him that we are now looking for a drummer he says don't look for anyone else i'm your new drummer that's sick and then we moved to kiev yeah all the band 2016 we were already living there oh yeah yeah we moved uh February yeah January and then it was May June something like this was it a new house on the forest or what's no no we just ran apartment's like separated yeah from each other everyone's got their own place good yeah I ran the apartment for the first like couple of months I live in my friend's apartment and then I Zolik sure yeah I also lived with

Zolik yeah it's a kind of it's a friend of ours okay and then I rent apartment with a coaster that our technical tech guy and today I met him so and we become friends yeah 2016 Wow. And yeah, he doesn't work for us. And he started work for us in 2019, I think. Yeah, I think the first time he went with us on 2019. Yeah.

Like all the South America things. But he's also sound engineer of, like, the bands. Mm-hmm. He's also studio, guys, so, like, he knows everything. Yeah. It seemed like Blad really brought it all together, you know? In many ways, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Because, like, it's unique, like, style. of rhythm section he provided and so like yeah it changed the game and generally i must say that he changed the game in this in this music the drummer plays a certain very specific role like it's for the foundation of the sound in the news text and absolutely in terms of arrangements so once you've got such unique drummer everything is changed because you have a good drummer you could play kind of shitty and it's fine. It sounds good. Everything sounds good, yeah.

It's not only because of somebody playing sloppy and not sloppy. It's just style-wise. Like if you've got a drummer who constantly plays non-stop double kick, me personally as a bass guitarite, I've got no space in the band. So it's like, yeah, I may not play. Who needs it? Yeah, but with Vlad and his style of playing, he gives a lot of room to bass guitar.

And it gives a chance to play something interesting in the bass guitar. And it even, it works in the opposite way. The way he plays drums makes me play more because it would just playing a root note won't work. So that's why you're more, because I was like thinking my, how does like Eugene come up at what he's playing? Because it's like, it's like, what do you hear? It's like you're.

When I play live? Oh, no, I guess for like when you're riding or alive or like, what you do on the record? because you're playing something completely different. Different from the guitar. Yeah. It comes from the written the drums. Drum rhythm.

And then Eugene put the melody in the... Yeah, I just follow... I play a separate voice. Yeah, but it is based on the rhythm by the drums, most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. Hmm. Yeah, it seems like, guys,

all four of you have your own voice. Yeah, but it is like that, yeah. And there's room for it, which is weird. because from an outsider, it's like, it sounds technical to me, but at the same time when I'm a home, or I'm going out for a walk, their riffs are catchy. So it doesn't make, it doesn't make sense.

Right, because it sounds technical, but it's also the rifts stay with me, which is rare. Oh, thanks. It seems like, it's hard, it's hard to explain. It's like a unity of the opposites. Yeah. Yeah, but, well, it is a unity of the opposites,

but it just turns out that no matter how technical what we play, it is also melodic. Yeah, there is mostly melody in these things. Mm. Yeah. Maybe that's it. Yeah, we love to put melody even like in a blast beat. In the blast beat, why not?

How do you do that? Man, well, I don't know. It sounds cool, I don't know. We did that in 2014 first, I think. plus yeah it did since early years yeah but it's it's like not new it's like again

I think it comes it comes from the first point we were touching like there was never marketing and that's why there were never limits never never there were never barriers to stop and restrain us so I never remember

that we like thought oh this is too heavy oh this is like two avant-garde this is like two avant-garde this is too progressive we never said too we have we have this scale of shit

it goes out yeah if it's not shit it's like oh let's work on it it's good it stays but in the middle of good and shit we have this point when we just if we will work on this like more it'll go to shit

maybe or to the good but anyways there were never genre limits so that's why if we felt like playing regular felt like playing reggae or felt like playing blast beats. We always did it. If we wanted a hardcore song on a record which wasn't hardcore by any means, we did a hardcore song.

Like, it's fine. Huh. So it sounds like you guys are just, you're just drawn towards what all, what moves you guys? Yeah, what moves us is the best thing. Yeah, if it moves us, let's do this. Yeah.

If it doesn't, no matter how good it sounds, it has to like it's not even no it should sound good to us we should love it but it's no matter what it is it can be any genre of music any sound let's say uh-huh if it is if it suits us then it's fine it makes kind of makes sense now and also like uh just to add to that everyone has to be from where you guys are from to play that way and for it to sound that way. It's like you can't have a drummer like anywhere else or a bass player or a guitar player or a singer like, like, is this the way, the way it moves?

I'm like, how do you even come up with that? I don't know, man. It's so I don't know what you hear, like listeners who listen to our music, but when we come up with a song, it's like, okay, it's like technical. It's like sometimes it's hard to listen like a little bit. but when Tatiana show up with vocal and we start to rehearse first time with vocals, I just

cannot play because it's different fucking song. I just... I do not recognize songs with vocals without vocals. Vocals change everything, change the whole picture. Of course. And if you start to like, listening, like following vocals

in the song, the song does not sound technically. Like it's Tatiana make it sounds simple but technical in the same time. Max told me

a very interesting thing. He said that about the last record we just recorded, the one which is going to be out. He said that I know how you make your music. So we make songs and we pre-produce them then send to Tatiana. She

works on them. Nobody listens to her ideas. Nobody knows her ideas until the recording. So it was more or less the same this time, but for this time, she actually came and made first demos with vocals. Yeah, with pre-production. Yeah, we did the full circle of pre-production with vocals. So there were demos with vocals, and after that she did the final vocals. But anyways, music comes first, this is what I mean.

And Max says that after everything is done, even though he knows how we make other music, it feels that she wrote very simple, catchy, let's say songs, motives for her vocals, especially when she sings clean. And we did the arrangements to that. Just the vocals came first. He had such a feeling. And it's interesting because in the reality,

everything is absolutely different, opposite. Like music, then she comes up with all these melodies to sing over this complicated riffs. And her simple yet catchy and cool vocal melodies they make the music sound not as technical as it is really yeah it is kind of covered under the layer of vocals that's so I don't know how the Panic even does that oh it's crazy it's like it's it's your own thing we're just after the channel like with new album it's also like this I just listened a couple of

days ago and it was like man it's simple but but I cannot play this song so good. It's like sounds so simple. But when you start listening to instruments, it's like, do-l-l-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- everything. Roman has a very good point. It means, answering your question whether it is technical or not.

It sounds not technical, but try to play. That's what I'm saying. The past 45 minutes is what I'm trying to get to there. It makes no sense. So you finally got it. But it's not easy to play, but it sounds not like hard. But of course, again, I'm repeating myself,

there are pieces which are very simple to play. Yeah. Very, of course, yeah. But music should be dynamical. It's not only like fast and slow. It's also like technical, easy to play. Technical easy to play, why not? Well, as cool is to hear how far you guys have taken the music, you know.

And being where your band's from, now you have both, you know, your own models, you know. But, you know, Eugene. Congrats to you and Roman just got a signature with Jackson. Yeah, it's insane man. It's badass. It's insane. It's a dream come through, you know. With no, with no plan.

No, no, no conversation, just following. Is that like, is it like an instinct? It's, yeah, yeah, I know what, but actually it can be applied to everything connected to Ginger. No, no plan, just an instinct, just like a flow. Everything was, everything, for the whole career, everything was, Everything we have like most of things, 99% wasn't planned. It was like a flow. Instincting and flow.

I think we found it. I was just trying. I was digging my, where is this? Where's the gold? He got it. That's what I do. Cool. Cool.

Cool. Well, you guys, I'll be kind of cool to hear like kind of like a rig. Easy. Run down. Like what's a, yeah, I mean, this is your, this is your guitar, man. What are the specs on it, man? listen ash body guitar ash body sick yeah the bolt on neck also pickups like the jackson also they make some modifications they kind of custom the goto bridge and the three piece neck

with ebony fretboard like goto here got there and that's it yeah it's pretty simple 6-3 and 27 inch scale I used the Daria 14 70 70 yeah so drop A but I use singles now because like they didn't have

New York Excel just a pack like this and then that's why I need to order singles like it's 14 I think 18 26 46 44 56 70 it's like this yeah All right, sick. Why stick with the...

Almost there. Why do you play six-string and not seven? Man, it's a big question. It's like, it was a process. Like, I don't have, like, opportunity to have, like, a real seven-string in my life, and then we just won't tour every time. And so it's not real time to play seven-string in my life.

So... Yeah. But I'm on the way to this. Yeah, I try seven-strings, but I never like try to make a music. Okay. Interesting because with your style it sounds like sounds like you would create that high-e, you know? No, it's only drop A man.

That's sick, it's cool. Yeah, it's not so low tuning. Like now, now it's standards are lower and lower every day. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but if you ask me, I'm in for Roman changing for, at least try and seven string because... I will go with 12. I think it can really open some new opportunities just composing wise. Especially in the tune, we have if we don't change the tune, it's like, why I personally love dropped is that on the base, it's like you have this super low E.

And then you have just standard bass music. Man, for me, like... E, A, D, and G. Wait, so, so that's how you think A? Yeah? I mean, E. This is A. This is A.

And this is four string bass. Yeah. E, A, D, G. Got it. Okay. So you can play all pop songs. Yeah, if I will go with seven strings, I will not play drop A man. No, it will be lower for sure.

Yeah. A riff that I love from your band is, it's the intro for a vortex. Yeah. I try to play it. It's like I can't play it. No, it's simple, man.

Is it? Well, for you guys, it's simple, but. That's not how you play. Yeah. Did you know how to play it exactly? No, I was looking at a video. I'll be doing it. I think I got it.

I'm fucking... I also have a... Ooh, dude. Wait, what's my... Where's my pick out? Where's my pick? I got it. Guys, play with fingers.

Am I... I'm in the right here? I'm in ginger right now. We once played on stage, do you remember? Man? Yeah. Do you have the drop tune on there? It was actually a nice gig.

Okay, so... So you hit it once... Yeah. And then you... Right? Even that chord for me, that chord is very awkward. Like you really have to... Like this? That chord is...

Right? Yeah, the whole thing is that it's a awkward chord for me, dude. My pinky does not want to do that. You just do it like, it's simple. I can't do that. We play the live in a single show. Yeah, honestly, we know how to do it. Oh, yeah, this.

That's called a, that's called cheating, right? Like, for real, I mean, for you guys, it's very natural, but that is a very typical chord. Okay, well now, now, now I have something to practice. And when, and when you, and when, when, when the bass comes into it was like, damn, it just like, it just has like this. hypnotizing part to it. Yeah, it's a very

not technical part, actually. That's it. The next part is like chords on bass. Okay. That's sick, dude. That's a complicated

bass riff, dude. Yeah, well, not really much. That's fucking badass, dude. Okay, well, now I have something practice. Yeah.

There's a there's another part. I think it's a the song is called As I Boil Ice. Yeah. Right? I don't remember this song.

We didn't play. Yeah, for a year. For a year, yeah. It's a other clean part. It's like Bannan, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Clean part?

I don't remember like this. I don't even remember. It's not the same. Yeah, yeah, it's like, that's it. Thick. Now play for like... How do you guys come up with chords like that?

It's Vlad's part, I don't know. So what, like, what, like, like you, like, you grew up listening to, like, being influenced by, like, new metal stuff, and, but then... Yeah. But this part comes from Vlad, and it's because he sees music and feels music. the piano. He originally is the piano player. Really? All of these are pages. It's all a chords, rapages, and this is how he plays

the piano, actually. I think it all comes from there, the original instrument he had. It's the piano. Yeah. Yeah. Learning the piano is another one of my things that it's on my bucket list.

Learning how to sing and learning how to play piano. Because if you learn to play piano, then I could I think I could transfer it over to my plane. Maybe if it will be a different view on your style to play on your melody. But definitely more polyphonic because, yeah, this is all this chord things that lets your, it's especially on the guitar, you feel like you play and it feels not like just one guitar, it feels wider.

Polyphonic sound, yeah, like a couple of notes sounding together. I think the piano practice will help you to develop this a lot. Yeah, the way that you have like these weird hammerons and like the rhythm of it is just not natural for me. Yeah. But it's natural for you guys. It's cool. Do you already like your practice in piano?

I have a mini board. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's enough to practice, yeah. I'll be, yeah. I'm just like the next time you see him, I'm going to be shredding. There's smoking splits in this practicing. You know?

That's it. Do you guys smoke when you're right or no? I don't know. It depends. No. But most of the song I wrote was like, no. I don't drink. I don't smoke.

No. It was like straight. Straight. Just straight-headed. Yeah. Not like right now. No, we're not the same. I just do not write the music when I drink or whatever.

Good. But it was like maybe a couple of riffs written by this, like during the maybe rehearsals back in the days, 2016, 15. Yeah, when I work on the King of a Rearisen album. Yeah, maybe it was like this, but no. It comes like, you're just in the right. Nice. Cool. So you guys just put out a new song.

Two in years. Two. Is that, are those like separate from what? No, no, it's from the upcoming out. Okay, great. Cool. Yeah. You guys have a date yet?

It's going to be out in February. February. Oh, yeah, yeah. Nice. Couple of months. A couple of months left. November, December, January. Because you guys have a lot of live albums and EP, so I don't even know what you guys are doing.

We don't have so much, but, yeah. Now, I've been wanting to have a live record. Like a sick one. Was that one in LA? Was that from the Wiltern? Yeah, Wilton, yeah, yeah. That was a cool show. Yeah, I enjoyed.

I loved it. Yeah, it was like a... You won't a show? Huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We meet in the backstage, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Was you, yeah?

Yeah, I was drinking your Kronos. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It was a cool show. Special, man. It was 2020. Last time I went there, I saw corn.

That was the last time I went there. What's a long time ago? Wild ago was like... Yeah. 20 years? No, no, no. It was, uh, they was, uh, they were, they just randomly put... Oh, it was with, uh, asking Alexandria?

Yeah. 1010, maybe? Around there. A long time ago, yeah. Yeah, 15 years. 14, 15 years. Oh, what it is 14 years? Yeah.

That is 14 years ago. Yeah. Oh my, that's just, oh my gosh, dude. That's crazy. Sick thing. Do you want us watching guys when you did that, uh, Disturb tour? And I was like, it's,

it's crazy how this music makes sense now. Because I don't think it did prior, you know? Yeah. Because we did some tours like 2009. It's, I don't know, this time. It just, it just makes sense now. Like heavier music in general? Yeah.

This is crazy how a band, like, you guys had a tour with like, Disturbed. you know yeah it's just over the years it uh i've got something to say up on this

okay uh i think that here we've got sort of uh some side effects of the situation we we over the years because the heavy music and extreme music was exposed like long time ago

and over the years we had bands growing bigger and bigger and bigger so eventually the whole scene like got bigger and uh Obviously, we've got bands here and there of extreme music who got such big fun bases that the band started to appear on bigger tours and, like, playing amphitheaters. Yeah, but at the same time, I'm a bit afraid that the music, like, extreme music may get

too commercial, because it will lead only, in my opinion, you know, bad consequences. Like, commercial always makes everything repetitive, commercial always makes everything too, too fast to be produced, too cheap to be produced, in order to satisfy people's needs. And, well, this is not what extreme music should be. But what is the longevity of that, right? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. Like, in the long perspective,

it will not make any good to the genre. If you ask me, sorry, for being a bit negative. But it was cool to be, you know, like, on the wider scene was disturbed. But at the same time, I felt like a mood spoiler every night because we were the opener. Imagine these people like coming in in the arena with their hot dogs and coke.

Their kids, whole family. Yeah. Ready to hear their favorite band. It's a different crowd, man. They were young, yeah. And they sit down at this very moment, the blast bit and the heavy girl starts. Boom.

It's a bit of a shock. for them it's cool yeah before like yeah before like some people that's like the first time hearing it so i'm like it might make sense you know yeah they just hear the the band they never hear before is a point i think i think but i i hope we left it facing there i i think so i because i like i like going to shows like that and um and it's kind of like look around like how this is what I was doing all the time. Yeah, I just like, you know, and I also have a theory about going to shows is

I don't count shows that I'm on tour. There's something about going, you drive yourself. I agree. Honestly, I don't, I stopped, this was last year, just recent last year, I stopped counting the tour. Did you count it? I don't count anymore. Did you count?

In the past. Yeah. And what was the number? No, no, no. On tour, he doesn't count like how many left. This is how I... Okay, let's say we've been on tour together.

Yeah. I now I would say I never seen Ginger. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay, okay, okay. I saw Ginger at the Wiltern. I saw Ginger and Turbine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, because there's something... Okay. You're in a different... Yeah. I think even your ears are different. I understand you. The way you see it,

the way you take in the music, the way you... I stop, you know, I don't count tours. And the way... Because, man, you go to the show, it's like, it's a unique show this evening and that's it. And then on the tour, like,

oh, tomorrow we'll go and see them. And, like, they have tomorrow in the weekend, in the months. We will be together. And they don't really care. Yeah, it's a different perception of reality, for sure. It is. So, so while I'm on, you know, I'm at a disturbed show, I'm, you know, I'm with my lady.

I'm just like, I'm being observant. I'm looking around, you know, I'm seeing, you know, I'm seeing my friends band play. I'm like, I'm still looking around. see how people are reacting because even like you know selfishly yeah I'm also in like a heavier band yeah I want to see how people are reacting to what's happening you know seeing like families react positively to them like damn this is that's cool I'm listening to a blast beat over fucking amphitheater yeah it's cool over a hot dog huh blast beat

over a hot dog last bit over hot dogs when you leave a show I talked about this when you leave a show there's nothing like getting a hot dog I love me it's probably yeah yeah I hope no one

no one got their hot dogs stuck in there in their thoughts while eating and listening to blast beats

by us on tour with disturbed so nobody will see us that's cool how imagine

somebody's use the band for playing a blast beat while they were eating in NFC it's

it's different huh yeah like oh that's because of them playing so heavy

with no with no plan yeah With no plan, only intuition. They have no plan to kill people. Only intuition and this following your instinct. Crazy. I would just do what we love.

Like just do we need to put more music, yes. Do we need to film a video? Yes. Do we need to go on tour? Yes. It felt natural. Like, oh, guys, we haven't had a new video for a while. Let's make a new video.

Let's make a new video. This is how it was. Yeah, because some people are like, you know, They might, they might have goals, you know? They would never have them. Wow. That's just, that's going to be my main take away from this. You know, just.

For us, it's not the goal. It's just the way. This is what matters. It's, it's just the way. Yeah, it's just the way. Podcast, they always, like, remind me when I talk to someone, just, like, constant, like, reminder to, like, trust your, just trust your way. Your way without ego.

Does that make sense? There is always ego, come on. Do you have ego? Everyone's got ego. But it depends on how high level you... It depends who you compare with. So, I don't have any like this ego to have a big rock star, you know, like, play style, no, I don't have this, but yeah, it's cool for me to play in a band who can live from.

live from the being a band so I can live my life to be in a band and now go to job this is I think my main goal and then enjoy the process right music being artists we are we are blessed to be able to be artists so we we make enough money just on our music and it's perfect and we do not depend on anyone we depend on ourselves we we write music which we love we do what we love tells us what to do how to dress up how to look what image to have we are fully independent it has always been like that it will always be like that independent like our idea say like if you want to put music like this we will put it like wherever

we know when no talk well there was a lot of it will be a lot of talks and a lot of shit inside the band but yeah it will and you but yeah and that goes with the long longevity no like you don't you don't do something because like oh it's it there's there's hype around it or it's trendy I think that there's this no if I if I like if I like the trend for example or like for example the trend for the seven string guitars sure and I love seven string guitars sure why I don't need to do not use this trend like wherever so and if we see from this perspective

it's like a lot of bands like love the music like trend music and they play it but then some of them follow the next trend some of them stay with this so it depends when it's like it's process different bands different approach to music some band sees through like the business sides more than musical they they better to play any music to be like successful Yeah, this is, I think, the worst that could be. But it's also a job, you know. To play music you don't like or to go to the factory you don't like, what is better?

Play, play the show. Yeah, I think play the music you don't like better than go to fucking shitty job you don't like either. I don't know. I completely disagree. For the musician, for me, it will be the same hell. Because for me, the musician, I cannot play music and I like

because I will suffer a lot, like not physically, but inside. I can easily explain my point. I think that playing music you don't like is way worse than going to a factory which you don't like. Because when we go to the factory and let's say make whatever, you know, carpets, you know, a factory producing carpets. It doesn't matter how you love it. Carpets will be the same.

If you make music which you don't love. Not make, play. It doesn't matter. Play on stage. You play music on stage which you don't love. Come on. It's already crap from the very origin of it. So that's my point.

Yeah, you guys are just from an area where that shitty job, dude. I don't want to go back to. I was a dishwasher, so I don't want to do that ever again. Yeah. Yeah, man. I was, you used to work at the construction area. And it's not the worst I did. The worst probably is a security.

Security? That was your worst job? Yeah, worst job. Why? I hated it, man. Man, it's not like security. It's not like security. I was a security dude that the,

the barrier, fucking barrier to the restricted area for people who just open and close it. Super reach. And I was my only job. was just to open the fucking barrier and to close it yeah for very very rich people yeah and most of them were douchebags yeah can you can you like feel i was always always curious about this can you feel like their energy when they're walking past you it's like oh yes i could i could feel it there's like some kind of negative energy there's yeah this is definitely there yeah so there there's

definitely there and there are people who look down the others just because they are not as rich as there, like 10 times poorer. And it happens, I experience this on myself. And it sucks. Wow, it's like, it's like open door for me. And then you just feel that negative. Yeah, well, I didn't care about opening the door for them because this is what I was paid for.

Just opening the fucking barrier, pushing the button. I wasn't doing this physically. It just was pushing the button. But the way it was treated like, yeah, man, it's, it doesn't it's it's bad that when we leave it's bad that we live in a world

where people are being treated badly just because they do not make that much money it's it's like what happens when you fucking die like what is yeah you can't take into where does your money go yeah for you it doesn't matter right

worms will eat us all right I mean I was having a conversation with someone that was delivering my pizza here, Domino's. And I was, we talked for like, like 10 minutes. I may, you might have been, uh, maybe, uh, not I should have done that. But I was talking to, I don't know, we're talking about tipping.

Mm-hmm. And it's like, what's crazy is that when I go to, like, the smaller homes and the low income home to cheap homes, they are the ones that tip. And when I go to like these really nice houses, they they're they're the ones that have the most uh rules of what to do it like you know put it here next to this next to this or they don't tip at all yeah yeah i was just found out really strange because i don't know i just asked them how much i asked them what's a good number to tip that that that you're stoked that uh that the uh store stoked just like honestly dude just like

three bucks like anything like like 15 percent or lower because when it averages out because when you go to the rich area is day don't tip i was just like wow it was like it was like this like reminder you know every time it was like this i think like it's not new also why why is i like that it's so weird it's easy again it's easy because poor people survive because they share and the power of poor people is the unity that's why they easily share with the you know locals just they understand we understand how hard it is Yeah. Yeah.

And the rich people, they are rich because they are like that. And they understand the value of three bucks. Or vice versa. It's hard question. Yeah, it's fucked up. It's like the opposite. Yeah, we don't know they are rich because they are like that or they are like that because they're rich. Yeah, that was like a, yeah, I guess it'll be a mystery.

It's not a mystery, I think. Okay, I will stop tipping. Let's see. No, no. No. I will reach in one month. I am happy to keep a person, you know, for good service and help. It's okay.

At the same time, tipping is not part of our culture, to be honest. And we had to learn this at the beginning, being here in the States. And there are some aspects and situations which I'm kind of sometimes pissed off, because people sometimes rely on tipping so much. And like it's, it feels like it is already there, even though you are not getting good service. Yeah, yeah. I came across with waiters who, it's just rude.

Never say hi to you and then. And the service is bad, but at the end of the day, they still expect you to tip them. And I know that it's okay for you Americans, no matter what tips, yeah. But imagine this will be someone from Europe because for us, just subconsciously tipping me something extra, which you give somebody it's not about yeah you're rude or it's not about anything it's like

if you have a good service you pay extra if you have like the bad service you don't pay you don't pay service because it was no service it's easy because like it never tip in europe you never tip a guy on the cash desk because it's not service from him he did not serve like he of his like month's salary and uh so it's not not like it's not like he's not like month's salary and so it's not like in our culture, the tip the guy who, like, give you a pack a cigarette from the one spot to another, like, or for coffee, for making your coffee. Yeah. Okay, coffee, coffee, coffee is a, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

if you're on cash desk and the guy give you a coffee, you never tip. But if you're sitting at a table, if a guy brings it to you, yeah, you can. Or a barista, if a barista makes it, you're always steep. If it's, it's, it's money for service, for serving you. It's not, but, yeah, it's. in our culture like this, but it's around 10% it's okay. But we learn, we learn how to do it in the States. No worries.

Yeah, it's 15 minimum. 18 minimum. Yeah, 20 sometimes. If you're very good 25. Wow. Yeah, because it's always like this weird, it's like this weird mental thing that, that happens to you in real time where okay, like it's time to pay, time to tip, the service was not good,

but something like, Oh, well, maybe they're having a bad day, or I don't want to, I don't want to make their judgment on me right. Oh, he was just asshole. Anyway, I knew it. He didn't leave me a tip. But maybe I shouldn't think like that. It's a double-edged sword.

It is. And I think we will never find the perfect balance. Yeah, yeah. I never feel bad if I, like, if I don't tip. I don't have cash, for example. If it's only cash, I don't have cash, what I have, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But now, in the States, they, Now, they set up a wonderful system of tipping through the card. Just everybody has this percent extra. So in Europe, for example, most of the places don't have it. So in most of the places, you need to have cash. You need to tip them only with cash with extra, but you cannot. I think 75% of the places you will not be able to add the tip on just your bill.

On your bill, yeah. Interesting. Okay. I'm going to stop tipping. I'm gonna stop, dude. Hey, hey, hey, my friends are from Europe, so I don't want to tip anymore. Everybody will blame us. Yeah, for you stopping to tip, yeah, and it spreads like a disease.

Yeah, let's say, epidemic of not tipping. And we are blamed for that. Perfect. I remember once. I remember, I don't remember which country was we were in an airport with some band. And then we, we order some beer or I don't remember food. and then the girl was like Hey guys where's my tips

Like it was like Yeah came up to you Yeah came up back like Where's my fucking tips I don't remember It was in airport And it was like It was like no tips

Because it was no service You need to pay tips No like Yeah it's strange In the airport It's even more strangely And she was like really like Angry

Like What the fuck where is my tips Yeah I mean oh dude I have like this There's a famous bar here in Hollywood called the Rainbow Room. You know, when we were younger, like, you got it. You got to go to this one bar.

Sure. It's like legendary. So I went and, you know, not knocking the bartender, but she was extremely rude. Obviously, I get it. Busy night. Friday, Saturday, a bunch of drunk metalheads, you know. But I was, you know what kind of is. You know, give me like a whiskey Coke, whatever.

You know, I'm in early 20s. I mean, it's just, you know, sometimes people look. look at you like you're like the worst thing that ever happened to him right it's they're they're having a bad day so I didn't tip and I was she was like really like you know she got she started give me shit I was like oh god it's okay so I tip for like a dollar and she was pissed I think you'd better you'd better not tip her at all than one dollar it's even more of an insult like oh you want a tip here's your dollar yeah like

Oh, so how's a dick for you? I would see it like that. Dang, I'm a dick. You know, fuck, I was a broke-ass musician. Yeah, but we didn't have an issue with tips. We just didn't tip anyone. Good to be the Eastern European. Yeah, you're right.

It's actually worse when you tip him a dollar. Yeah, it is kind of worse. It is worse, man. Yeah, we throw this dollar back at you. Dang. Man, but dollar is better than nothing. Oh, yeah. I don't know why they're in good.

Dude, a dollar would get you. Dollar from every person, it's cool. A couple of hundred. If I got a dollar from each of you, I'll have $3. Oh, I don't have men. Sorry. I will not tip you tonight. I will not tip you.

Oh, my goodness, dude. Well, unfortunately, to touch on what Eugene said is humans, yeah, there's no balance. It's a possible to get balanced and humans will never ever be balanced. Humans are just, it's like impossible for people to be balanced. Yeah, but...

It sucks. Yeah, I don't think we should, like, think about, like, everything should be balanced, no, like, everything will be unbalanced. Yeah. I don't know. Unbalanced makes some good music, though.

Yeah. Anyone that's successful it's not balanced. It's a hard point. Again, very hard to judge upon this. Whether like balance, perfect balance, perfect balance is impossible because the world is chaotic.

Yeah, but whether we should, you know, at least aim at this. Yeah, it's a different question. Yeah, looking for a perfection is not like finding the perfection, which is impossible. But looking for perfection, and craving for it and aiming it is a different thing. It makes us better.

Yeah, you see your way. Yeah, the direction. Yeah, direction. Even though it is never, you will never reach it. Yeah, there's a guitar. So you, sometimes, people, I want to be perfect. And when this person on the way to this perfectness, you face a really good playing, but never perfect.

Yeah. You can achieve some, like, technique but perfect is not a goal I think it's never happened how often to do you guys practice I practice

before the show I play like a little bit like 20 minutes 20? Yeah and during the whole I don't know I just play songs a couple of times a week okay

not every day sometimes every day while we recording album yeah it was everyday but then maybe i like it happened more when we come to writing and recording the way on tour i play more like a lot for example if like tomorrow i fly home and for these two weeks i will play like for the first couple of days i will not touch guitar for sure you will you have to refresh the song for a couple of days now for sure no maybe for a couple days i just when i fly home i just maybe a week don't touch the guitar and then

it different feelings yeah and then uh you wait you wait you wait do you wait for it to like kind of call for you oh yeah i feel like yeah yeah sometimes and not like a week yeah and then you like oh wow it's cool yeah norman it was actually you that that taught me like uh because i because i asked you like what you know how do you warm up and so i i just play it i i songs from Ginger. I was like, oh shit, why don't I do that? And I tried that too. I played out, there's like a few birds we have. I'm like, it's kind of, it's hard. I still can't play them. So yeah, I get better when, before I show I played this song.

Yeah. It makes, yeah, it's kind of like a common sense thing. I think I was just over-complicating it. Best case scenario is to play the whole set before the set. Yeah, sometimes I just put the airport in my one ear, and then I have a small M. And, like, I play all set list. And then even, it's not hard for me to play set list.

And on the show, it helps you, like, songs. For example, a couple of songs, like, I play, last show, like, a couple of songs I played before. And then when I play them, it's easier to play them. Because you play, like, one hour ago. Yeah. It's true, huh? Because, and also, like, you're, I really wanted to let people know

they listen to watching like your your tones are very it's not like a disc but it's like they're just the gain on your amp is like barely there so it's like when I played your amp it's like very clean no it's not like this anymore like the it's about the character

of a sound when we rammed the album it was like a lot of gain when like a lot of gain yeah in the mix this gain was a little bit like not enough and I ask Max what happened and he it's because of character of this

amp it's more grainy sound yeah and when like the bass also has like a lot of distortion this record and so you lose the gain like feeling of the gain of the guitar and then we re-ramped it with different pedal this one but different revision and yeah it makes it's like more saturated and yeah Yeah. You feel like more gain. But now it's a lot of gain. But when you hear it from PA or from recorded, it doesn't feel like a lot of game.

It's strange as shit. Yeah. I noticed that when I was listening to a song, Rogue, I was like, oh, that's way more gain than what they use to use. It's like way more gain on bass. It becomes very hard to play. Yeah, let's switch on the distortion. It's very hard to play because just the dirt.

Yeah. For example, when I play this riff, I cannot move on stage because every extra movement, and I may have jurt here on the highs. But the sound is great. Yeah, the sound is just thick and fat as fuck. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds bad. That's sick.

Yeah, so it sounds like you're really, when more again, you have to play it more perfect. Yeah, on bass, especially finger style. It's all of control. The difference is that when most of the basses play, when most of the basses play metal with the big, they always have power music. Yeah.

And it helps them to play. clear even with distortion but when you play fingers like it's all in your hands and you have always to keep an eye and focus on on control to control your game to control gain to control the mud comes from your fingers it's it's hard and mute it properly in the yeah on the record it comes even to some some sort of cheating we were playing Like, I was playing a riff, I think it was even in the rogue one, which is this one. And it has a lot of pauses, like real poses. When I play it live, it's almost impossible to achieve it.

But on the record, I could play this riff and a lot would stay behind me. And every time I need to make a pose, he just, he emutes this thing with his right hand. Sick. Yeah. So it's like playing in three hands. Wow. You're like a spider. That's sick.

Yeah. Even things like that may happen. This sound requires really a lot of control. It's weird how like a simple mindset will change things. Like for me, like I would, most people might be the same way. Like you think more gain, you don't have to play is better.

Because you're hiding behind the game. And I've been guilty. And like, and what you just said, like it kind of mind fucked me. Oh yeah, it's more gain. You need to actually play better.

Actually, yes. Interesting. Actually, yeah. I had a complete opposite mind. And also on the guitar, if you have more gain, you need to control it properly. And yeah, it's hard to play, like, more gain, it's hard to play. It's way harder. To play, like, clear.

Man, but it depends on a part, for example, if you play, like, I don't know. I never thought about that was crazy. If you play, it sounds like really muddy. Yeah. Because it's a lot of gain is different preset. But for this one, it depends of a part. depends of a part. For this part, it sounds cool, but for like, so you need to, or mute it properly or go with less gain on this exactly. But yeah, the more gain you have, the more of a good player you need to be.

Wow, I thought the complete opposite to be. Wow. What was that upstroke you were doing? It was like a... It's his signature move. That? It's like a... Harmony. But he's got...

...their moves with his right hand. He just... He picks a string in his own way. No, it's... You can do... It's random shit, man. That's dope. All right, well, I gotta practice more.

We all have to. Yeah, we always have to. Or not. Or not. Or not. Or not. It doesn't matter how good you play now. It really matters how better you will play in a year.

If in a year you can... Me, for example, every time I look at how I was playing a year ago, I always feel ashamed for how bad I was a year ago compared to how I am now, and it's a good motivation. Well, that we do have in common. I do think that way. Man, last year I sucked. Man, now, yeah, because keep practicing and keeps getting a new...

You set a new bar, you know? Yeah, it's cool. Even if these are small steps, just correcting these mistakes and those mistakes, it's anyway, step forward. Okay. Well, Eugene Roman, anything we missed? Anything that you guys want out there for the world to know or? Yeah.

So people can see this pedalboards and know. Yeah, yeah. They have a frame. Yeah, we'll take a picture of it or something. Oh, but on cameras, it's... Yeah, I'm over there. Okay, but yeah, I want to say shout out to the Fed Cables Company who made this pedalboard for me.

They guys from Poland, they also make everything like cables, signature, like everything, looms. And I also want to shout out to Jackson guys. Of course. Quad Cortex guys to everyone who involved in the process, who helped me with... To make my life easier with all these devices. and the guitars and everything yeah the products are great quadx jackson yeah i'm happy 100% that sounds awesome yeah well and me too yeah i would love to thank matthew from overload guitars

for this wonderful basis i have that's sick i am i'm really in love with the new fujiin i have Like I used to have Achilles. I still have my Achilles, but the only problem I had with those basses was like a little bit too small body for me. I'm like the square, the like white shoulders, and I wanted something bigger to feel like on me. And we came up with Fujian.

It's just perfect. I play on the Fujina. Yeah. And well, overload guitars for the bass and quad cortex and neural DSP. The guys turned out to be like real. human first of all not just a big company it's like fujin it's like eugene who play fusion i don't play fusion it's not yeah fujin fudjin yeah yeah well neural dsp are cool people

thanks for being people first of yeah thank you uh thank you guys for caring you know yeah and thanks to you chris it was real real pleasure to you know meet and talk pleasure to know you pleasure to know pleasure was a tour with you it was a big honor for us to tour with suicide silence and just say hi to the guys. Of course. Yeah. Well, it was honored to tour to you guys and you guys gave us, you know, the opportunity in play in front of, you know, new, new people.

It's cool. Yeah. It keeps happening too. You know, just always new people to play in front of, you know, you guys are taking the genre to a new, new places, you know, and that gives us a future too, you know, and bands. All in our umbrella. It's cool, you know.

And thank you guys for being so fucking cool. Thank you, man, to White Eyes. It was cool conversation. Nice to speak with you and hang out with your retirement. Cool. All right, well, new record out in February. Yeah. Cool.

And next tour with Sepul Tour. I don't know. I don't know maybe this podcast will be out. I don't know which date, but we will jump on a tour in two half, three weeks. Okay, great. End of, yeah. End of October. So,

Cheers, everyone. Cheers, thank you so much, everyone. That's it, later. Ginger. Cheers. Cheers. Nice. Let's do some of three.

Actually.