Garza Podcast - 160 - STICK TO YOUR GUNS: Hardcore, Straight Edge, Terror & Aging as a Band

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Garza sits down in-person with Orange County, CA band STICK TO YOUR GUNS. Their new album "Keep Planting Flowers" is out now! https://sticktoyourguns.net SUPPORT & GET EPS EARLY: https://bit.ly/Join-Garza-Podcast STICK TO YOUR GUNS is: Jesse Barnett - Vocals Andrew Rose - Bass Chris Rawson - Guitar Josh James - Guitar Adam Galindo - Drums CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Fred Durst 02:18 - LA Fires, Emotional Time 10:33 - New Album & Artwork - Keep Planting Flowers 13:28 - When Jesse Quit Being Straight Edge 22:32 - How Jesse’s “Medicine” Changed Him 26:00 - Perspectives on Straight Edge 30:10 - Failing the Milk Challenge 32:23 - Pumpkin Pie Challenge 38:43 - Established in 2003 40:38 - 1st STYG & SS Tour Together 42:18 - The Decimator Pedal 43:33 - Andrew’s Bass Rig 44:00 - Andrew Joining the Band 52:08 - Mitch Fundraiser 54:35 - Backlash From Diamond & The Hope Division 57:20 - Scott Vogel/Terror 1:00:52 - Aging as a Band 1:06:17 - Behemoth, Metal Genres 1:08:13 - Maintaining as a Band, Growth 1:09:02 - Writing the Best Record 1:10:20 - Adam’s Bell Brass Snare, The Cleansing Snare 1:14:23 - John Feldmann’s Crazy Recording Process 1:27:34 - Recording Keep Planting Flowers with Beau Burchell 1:29:37 - Approach to Songwriting 1:31:21 - Writing “Left You Behind” 1:35:21 - Being Outspoken, Consequences 1:39:50 - The Warriors

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I feel bad for you, Josh, I'm But I really truly appreciate you You up being here, me Jesse and I, you know, we both live in Los Angeles And yeah, no I'm glad, thanks for having us Anytime It's also kind of a great distraction

Yeah, it is Yeah, you know Well, I've been using the music as a distraction For a long, long time of life Yeah, I think most of us probably have Sad but true, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah Weird, huh?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Actually, it was, it was Fred Juris that put it in two words. Hitting with it. Running from reality, chasing dreams. Deep. He also put it into words when he said,

Oh, here we go. Did it all for the number. Yeah. I grew up in Jacksonville. Yeah. And I used to watch Let Biscuit play Battle of the... battle of the bands for like $2. You serious?

And lose. You would always lose. Really? What the heck? Really? Yeah. Josh was hating him from the beginning. Perfect.

All right. So remember that. Okay, good. So this is like real. You have an actual, like, opinion because you were there and you saw it from the start. I saw it. But, you know, they made it to the top. Yeah.

Good for them, you know. He's done some funny shit for sure. Yeah. That makes me go like, that's, that's, that's, Yeah. It's funny. I like when people do funny things. It's awesome. Yeah, comedy's cool. Isn't it? Laughing is the best. Laughing, coming, shitting. There's like the three top things. Well, what about eating and sleeping? Yeah, I guess you're right. If I could eat while I sleep, then I would be the top five. But don't, but don't you eat when you sleep because you're dreaming and you're dreaming and you're eating when you're dreaming. Oh, fuck. Oh, yeah.

You're seeing another, is that another? Is that another? Is that another? Is that another? Is that another little bit? Is that another little bit? No, that was just me pre-copy talking. Hey, Jay, are we a chugging? We're rolling. Chugging? Okay, cool. Stick to your guns. Thank you for being here.

I'm honored. Especially with the times that you guys are going through currently. So I appreciate you making a time. Absolutely. Thanks for having us. So how close do you guys live to the fires? I live. Josh was the closest.

It started, we were at a rehearsal in Pasadena. and then we were leaving two hours early, actually, and we just looked outside and the little sky was red. We were like, yeah, we should probably get out of here. And then... Yeah, my wife is typically not someone who's like super alarmed. And she never calls me because she doesn't want to talk to me. Okay.

And so we're at practice and Adam goes, hey, Fern just called me. And I was like, what? I said, what the hell's going on between YouTube? I look at my phone. I was like seven missed calls. I call her. And she's like, hey, you guys are in an evacuation area. And we're just like jam it out.

We've got to get these new songs down ready for the record release show. And then we walked outside and Jesse's like, the sky's glowing. And they were like, you know what? We know how to play our instruments. And so we packed up. And Chris and I actually like on the way back to my house, like saw, you know, the Eat and Fire. So we saw that. And it was just like.

Narnly. Yeah, it was just so like surreal. On the 134, when I was driving home, I had to go around trees in the middle of the freeway. It was like, and then behind you see the fire. It's like apocalyptic vibes. Yeah, it's like an apocalyptic war zone. Yeah. It's not chill.

Yeah, it's not chill at all. So like my, my, you know, thank God that like my house isn't in that area. And it's like, you know, my heart goes. We have a lot of friends that live in Altadena and Pasadena and they've lost their homes. And it's like horrific. and the same thing with the Pacific Palisades, some friends that live out near that area that have been heavily affected

and I've lost their places. And it's super tragic. I think Jesse and I are both extremely thankful that as of now, nothing's happened to our homes. Yesterday morning, which was the morning after the first night of when the fire started, Chris and Adam were staying at my house. And like I woke up at 6 a.m. from the smoke, like inside the house.

Are you serious? And so like I woke up and I, if I'm laying in my bed and I look straight, there's the curtains. I go to, and there's doors in my backyard. Yeah. And so I could see just underneath the curtains. And it was the sun was coming up, but it was coming up through the smoke clouds. So it looked like flames to me. And I was like, oh, fuck, it's here.

You know, I'm butt-ass naked. I jump out of the bed. I open up the curtains and then, you know, thank God that it wasn't like that. And then, but yeah, I mean, we could smell smoke inside the house. And then, you know, you open up the door and you're just like, ashes falling from the sky. But still, that's not even, I mean, that's not even the tip of the iceberg,

you know, like looking at some of these pictures right here. It's like this is... Yeah, these pictures are horrific. It seems like, you know, movie set or something that happens in a different life or some post-apocalyptic shit. And it's just so crazy. Jesse and I were talking about earlier

where it's like, you know, I love Los Angeles and so many people do. And it's crazy because it's so easy to complain about things or to a perfect example is like you're driving down the PCH and you see all these big beautiful houses on this the side of the beach right yeah and you're like oh these rich people blah blah blah with their houses and then it's like burnt to the ground and you're like holy fuck I didn't even realize that that added to this like beauty and this magic of this place you know that like those are such like identifiable

buildings or you know all this stuff you know we were just talking about the will Rogers historic house being worked down. And so it's just, you know, and all these businesses, you know, there's all these restaurants and bars and stuff that I think are really like staples in the community. That's where people go to congregate and spend time together. And, you know, all those small, you don't really realize that all of those small little things add up to the community that you love. And so it is, it's very emotionally confusing, I think, to see it all just like get destroyed

like this, especially whenever. there's nothing that you can actually do you know this is it's a wildfire it's a wildfire and then you know there's there are also you know we've seen um there's been people posting on Instagram of like these fucking assholes like going around trying to light bushes on fire and like so you serious yeah so people matter

oh god silver Lake Elysian Park and then you know so like there's you know so it's just like it's just kind of chaos so it's gnarly up there it's chaos it's chaos Yeah, so hoping that that that... I'm not laughing about tragedy when he went to type in people lighting fires. The first thing that popped up was people lighting their farts on fire. Oh. Well, that's a classic joke.

Yeah, it is. That is a good one. Yeah. You said that something, actually, I never heard someone say this before, Josh. Emotionally confusing. Yeah. I never heard someone say that. Yeah, that might be because I might be emotionally disconnected.

Oh, so, sure. No, I've been, now not thinking about it, I think I've been emotionally confused because, because you're like, something's happening to you, then you're like, what am I feeling? Yeah, exactly. So that is emotional confusion. Am I sad? Am I mad? You know, for real, man.

Am I confused? Yes. You know, and then every time you speak with a friend or maybe you open up Instagram and you look at what's going on and like people's lives that you're connected to and you're just like, when it's something that's so like unfathomably tragic like this it's just it is it's emotionally confusing

I think Jesse probably is probably the most equipped out of everybody with this because I feel like you deal with emotionally confusing things like everything from running all power oh no doubt I mean we yeah because I run like a community space

down the street from where I live and so we were there all day just like handing out supplies and and things like that And then when we got home, literally on the drive home, Josh is like, yo, Runyon canyons on fire. And that's close to where I live. And I was like, oh, shit, what the fucks we start looking at? And then we, I literally park on my street and we get out and I'm just like looking at the flames, like, right there. So then we packed up all of our animals and dipped down to OC because it was just, we were going to wait until like we were in an official evacuation zone.

But as Josh can attest, because we live in the area where Josh, when he first moved to L.A. 10 plus years ago, whatever it is now. the streets get congested for nothing. You know what I mean? Like the gridlock in that and the area that is in that we live, it's, you know what I mean? If there's a trash can in the road, it's a mile back.

It's over. So I was watching the evacuation zone get closer and I was going outside to see if I could see anything and every street was gridlocked. And I was like, we should probably go now instead of waiting until it's, you know what I mean? So, you know,

we weren't in an official evacuation zone, but I was like, let's just get the fuck out of here and go down to orange, County and my mom is an apartment that's about the size of this room and so there was three people my big 70 pound pity oh perfect and three cats so it was a royal rumble all and I didn't sleep at all oh no I fell asleep at like 7 a.m. or whatever and got like two hours or something so it's funny when you need to do some really important sometimes and that before you don't get any sleep

and the next year it's like wow this is what life's all about well because also the thing that makes it even more confusing is like we're dealing with all of this and then we're also like oh yeah we have a record release show tomorrow and then we fly to Europe the next day it's just like oh fuck yeah so it almost feels like for me it almost feels like inappropriate

you know to be like hey guys hello yeah like our friends and our families are on fire and we're like feels weird flying away yeah talking about anything besides what we yeah it's okay it's a gnarly kind of it's just it's emotionally confusing full circle

yeah it's it's Yeah, I was just thinking that right now because I want to plug in your record now before I always forget. I'll do it in the very end. Yeah, sure, sure. So you guys are dropping a record. Well, now by this is out, the time this is out, it's already out. Yeah. So keep planting flowers out now.

Yeah, so it kind of went full trickle. You're talking about that and then you guys are, you need to promote the record. Yeah, exactly. It sucks, dude. It sucks. But let's also do that. Yeah, you should. You should.

Let's also definitely do that. But, dude, it's weird. It messes with your mind when something is going on at home, sometimes more serious than others, and you're leaving it. You have to leave. No, sure. It's weird.

And it doesn't get easier. It's weird. My mom, who is always such a big, like, you know, inspiration for me and a lot of the things that I do in my lyrics or whatever. Yeah, like, you know what I mean? She's the one who pointed out the record cover and, like, the artwork to us being like, Gosh, yo, this is a little crazy. You know what I mean?

And so weird. I literally didn't even. Yeah. This is a hard. This just blew my mind right now. So if you're listening, the back of the vinyl is almost like a B cover. And it's the globe on fire. So yeah, it's, she was like, you know, it's just, she was just like saying like, whoa, this is kind of crazy.

Look at your cover. But also like how, you know. And I know. mom has to say nice things because you know she loves me or whatever but she was just like that's stick to your guns on the front you know what i mean like this all this this this horrible shit's happening and we just got to put our gas mask on and keep keep doing something and keep oh wow building and creating and trying to grow things because it's like our other option is just to sit and look at the smoldering pile of fucking shit or we can throw a couple seeds in there you know what i mean

yeah see what see what comes out and see what else we can grow and build so um but yeah sometimes i'm so close to a thing that i don't even realize the the other things that people see and connect to the world around what's happening, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's crazy because it's right it's running your face. Yeah, I know exactly. And then someone has to like point out, hey, you know, like the

so if you're just listening, yeah, so just what Josh said, it's like the ultimate cover is literally the world on fire. That's so bizarre. When I first showed it to someone they thought it was the world with Donald Trump's hair. If it kind of squint, if it kind of squint, if kind of

Gwint? Dude, we're going to do an alternate version of that. Hey, you know, art is in the eye of the beholder, so whatever you want to see, I guess. Fucking. If there's any band that could pull that off, I would say it's stick to your god.

So, that's not what it is, though. So, yeah. Are you sure you guys don't do mushrooms or anything? You're sure? Yeah, we definitely don't. Is your whole band straight edge? I'm straight. edge. Okay. Same. Same. Yeah. Okay, so the whole

mass rate edge. Yeah. Oh. I kid. I don't know. Do what? I'm asking questions. I don't know what's going on, man. I'm trying to find out more about you guys. So I'm what's known as a sellout. It had to come out one way or another. It might as be on the Gaza podcast. Don't worry. Gaza, Garza podcast. We've already beat it. We've already beat his ass.

Freudian slip. Yeah, I got the shit beat out of me. Oh my goodness. No, not really. Not really. Blood in, blood out. You know, it was funny because legitimately like I was scared to tell everybody.

Yeah, how do you bring it up? And obviously, the person I was most scared with, I went in order of least scary. So I started, I started with our first, our drummer who's no longer in the band. And then I ended with Josh. And so I kind of. I kind of just went down, went down. And then when I told Josh, I was so scared, blah, blah,

and his response was basically like, hey, you're a grown man and I'm a grown man. Why are you wasting my time with this? You're my friend and I love you no matter what. I woke up at like 7.15 a.m. to a text, like the length of Lord of the Rings. Did you text it? I texted. I was in Mexico at the time.

We were getting ready to fly out to a year. I was also like, when I saw the text, I was like, here we go. something so bad has happened, like the band's over, you know, like, I don't know what's... When you see a long text, you get a little, like, that little feeling. It's like, oh, it's just going to be. It's triggering because I used to, years ago, before I met my wife, I was in a relationship that was filled a lot of long texts. Oh, no.

And let me tell you. One of those texts? So now, so now I'm like, I'm like, it's like PTSD. If I get a long text or like, if it says like 19 text messages by the same person, I'm like, oh, God. one of those relationships here we go and uh so i thought i thought that was jesse's and i was like what have i done now and then uh actually i what i replied back with was um uh a couple of days before he sent me the text me and some friends like had like a picnic it was like a sunday nice day we're like oh let's grab some food and go chill at a park and um there's this uh i live in in

in Highland Park, and there's this old school soda pop store by my house. It's called Galcos. Okay. And it sells, like, all these different sodas from all over the world. And it's, like, super, like, 50s duop vibe inside. And that has all this, like, candy, like, cracker jacks and blah, blah, blah. And we found candy, yeah, we found candy cigarettes. And so we were at the park, like, smoking, quote, smoking candy cigarettes.

like fucking just being dumbasses So it's candy though Yeah or bubble gum Bubble gum cigarette So it's like it's like gum in the shape of a You never had those when you're a kid Not shape like a cigarette You never said a bubble gum cigarette pack

That's classic bro what? Dude they're so cool It's like I think they're called Roundup There's a whole bunch of them Yeah there's like round up Yeah there is round one Oh that looks scary Cigarettes for kids bro

It looks cool That is fuck Because like smoking does look cool It does yeah And like whenever you puff on it There's like dust or something dust like it's like sugar powder that like comes out so we're a grown man this is kind of fucked up yeah it was so normal we were kids you I'm like what

so so so we're grown men awesome walking on a park on a Sunday like and me my friend Gino I like snapped a picture of us so when I got that huge text from Jesse I just responded with that picture but in invisible ink and I just said we all have our secrets. That was my response to the text. There was a nicer response after that, but for sure, it was, that was my, that was my breaking it to everyone.

I actually never officially told that. Yeah, see? Yeah, I just showed up to my first Euro tour, and I was like, oh, cool, like, part of the decision of me joining the band was like, oh, I'm joining like a straight-edge band, sick. That was also one of the reasons why we were like, all right, this guy works, he's straight-edge.

Yeah, and then I show up in first day, he's just ripping a J with our fucking front of house guy behind the bus and I'm like oh cool whatever here's the thing people people often want to know what my hottest take is weed straight edge yeah it should be I agree that's a hot take

every straight edge kid I know me old fashion no I'm kidding well I hear stories of actually Josh maybe you you can actually add to this like was it it was Keith

from a throwdown he would say that he would to Florida and they would X up and they will be smoking cigarettes in front of them. I don't know about that. I saw some shit like that in Pennsylvania. Yeah, I grew. Can someone explain to me? I'm not sure if I'm understanding what he's saying. He's saying that Keith said, he believes that Keith said that whenever throw it on tour and they would go to Florida, they would see people exing up.

Oh, and they're smoking. Oh, oh. But I try to explain it to straight edge. What if they were just at a bar, though? And they had exes because they couldn't drink. No, I think there were legit exes. Growing up, crying. I'm not going to look like like sharpy X.

I'm going to say something my bald. I'm going to say something my dad said me growing up. Okay. I believe that you believe them. Fair enough. Fair enough, yeah. I grew up in Florida and I never saw that. Okay.

There were a couple of occasions where someone would put an O on their hands. I remember the O, yeah. And then they would just get the shit kicked out of them. Yeah, I owe up now. By the people with the X's on their hands. Oh, my goodness. I'm not sure if this is the O that we're speaking of. It might be, honestly, who cares?

How long were you straight edge? My whole life. Whole life. From zero to 33. It's a while. Yeah. 33 years, nothing. What made you?

33? I don't think I found out to you were 33. 35. It's possible. Yeah. What, uh, what, uh, what, uh, what, uh, what made you try weed? So my brother's been a stoner, my entire life. And he was actually, my brother might have been in the band like, oh, gee, suicide silence, stick to your guns days. Um, I wouldn't expect you to remember anything like that. But, um, he, uh, he was really, I got prescribed, uh, like an anti-anxiety medication. Okay. And he was basically like, like, like,

like, look, I respect, you know, all your shit, but you should really try this first before you try that. Try weed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so we started with like tinctures and all the like hippie-dippy kind of stuff. And it was, it was, I found it incredibly helpful because I couldn't sleep waking up in the sweats. You know, I mean, it's not, it's not something that we all have an experience, but it got to a point where it was so bad that I was like, I think I might need to see someone. Driven to madness. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, it's not something. So it's, And it's not like a cure-all by any means. Like you still have to like work on it.

But as I'm sure they can, I'll tell you, my brain sometimes like goes at like a thousand miles an hour. Yeah, that's why it's slow down. Exactly. And so when I, to me, when I smoke it, it like slows that down. So I'm like think a little clearer. You know what I mean? Yeah. Way clear.

Way clearer. Hmm. Way clearer. That's a hot take. Yeah. And I would actually say like, I mean this in no disrespect. Sure. Absolutely.

But I think this is the best version of Jesse Barnett I've ever known. I tell that I tell that to everybody. People wish I would have started smoking way earlier. It's emotionally confusing for me. This is a very confusing podcast. It's fine. Okay. So how long ago was, what's this?

33. Okay. This is the side effect. This is the downside. You're 37, right? How old you, But yeah, 37, 37. Wow.

And another Just like a funny little thing is how high my tolerance is. Just like out of Out of the gate. Yeah. Like really a problem. It's like a like I can't do edibles or things like that. It doesn't just, they just do not work.

It don't work? I have to take like 80 milligrams in order for me to feel something. 80? Yeah. Whoa. And that's too expensive, bro. That's too expensive for me. Oh, your band's crazy, man.

Wow. Band? Yeah. No, they're normal. They take zero milligrams. Wow. You're taking all the milligrams for us. Exactly.

I have to take everybody's milligrams. Okay, yeah, so you guys already answered my next question. How is it seeing someone straight edge for so many years? I mean, you guys are legit lifers, and then you see someone smoke, and then you see the change. I mean, actually emotionally confusing. You know, because it's just like, oh, shit. Like, that's, there's no doubt about it that I can, if I was to A, B. Jesse, you know, before and after, I'm like, oh, yeah.

Like, he's just a, I feel like he's even taking care of himself better. But, like, his, is his attitude, his interactions, his ability to communicate, like, everything is so much better. And I don't mean that in any, of course. any bad way towards your old self because obviously I became friends with your old self I was like wow there's a better version inside of it there's oh chess you're ready wow

so I'm like maybe I should do PCP because what could we unlock and me you know Josh on PCP is bananas Josh on PCP that's peak Florida yeah box yeah he'll save Florida by himself

I mean the thing is is I have only ever known non-stravation edge Jesse and I love him dearly. So I don't really care necessarily about past straight edge Jesse because I've made such a good friend that's stoner Jesse. There's only a handful of people where I would genuinely care if they broke edge. Everyone else I've had so many friends that have, I just don't give a fuck. It's like it's your life. Yeah, for sure. I've got literally maybe like, there's genuinely probably three or four people where I would be heartbroken if they actually did. Everyone else, I just don't care. Like it's your life. Do whatever.

whatever the fuck you want you know it's good interesting we're adults yeah we're all growing up yeah we're all growing up in the you know opinions change our life changes so

you know one one time you you have no kids some of some of you guys have have kids you know it's just like life life changes Chris actually grows weed yeah I have

for sport Chris was already straight at you yeah I used to I used to smoke weed I love That's actually the biggest advocates for straight edge. It's like he was, he was knee deep in the, he was knee deep in the mind alter. I would say, me. You never seen a white boy Rick? Based after him, bro. And then he went straight edge. Okay. He went the other way. Yeah, what, what? What meekly trade edge, Chris? I just, honestly, I was smoking enough weed that I felt like I wasn't getting high anymore and I was just getting burnt. Like I would smoke weed and then immediately just go, I'm not doing anything. Oh, yeah. And then I felt not productive.

Opposite effect. Yeah. Like, it stopped feeling fun and it started feeling dark. I do know a lot of people like that. So it's like, there is, that happens. I don't think anyone's like, what's it called? Huh. Immune to that.

You know what I mean? You definitely have to have like a, I try to have like a regiment. You know what I mean? Yeah. I call it my medicine. Medicine. Yeah, call it the medicine. It is.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's cool. I mean, I've been straight edge for, see, I'm 3.9 now. broke edge almost 21. Classic. We'll beat your ass after this. Classic.

That's like, and now I can drink. Let's park. Cliche. You know, you're a kid and you see, you know, like going to showcase and chain,

you see like people's straight edge. Maybe I don't know, maybe I was kind of following. But in a positive light, it kept me out of trouble. Yeah, I was going to say like, it did keep me out of like some serious trouble.

Like sometimes like a situation like that, that like also when you're a kid you don't know who you are yet no right so like whether or not you think that you're like I'm paving my own way you're most likely mimicking something because you're trying that's how you figure out who you are like what you connect to I think there's a lot of people that you know when they were younger they were influenced to become straight edge for whatever reason whether that's a band or a older sibling or friends or whatever and then eventually one day they're like oh this isn't who I am and you know And maybe they don't even like consciously understand that, right?

Sure. Because it's like over a matter of time, we all change. You know, but especially when you're young, I think you're just trying to figure out who you are. And sometimes you figure it out younger. Sometimes you figure out when you're older, you know, but still it's like, you know, you being straight until you're 21, that could have been a good thing.

Because maybe you wouldn't have, maybe otherwise you would have had a drinking problem at 17 or some shit. Oh, sure. You know what I mean? I've been, I've already done something stupid. Yeah. One of my favorite straight-edge stories that I always tell is there's a, I used to go to Comic-Con in San Diego back in the days when you could just like roll up and just buy a ticket at the fucking window, you know what I mean? Humble Bragg.

Yeah, humble brag. But there was the author of, will you look up actually real quick? The, I can't remember his fucking name right now. Grant Morrison, I want to say, Arkham Asylum. Good memory. Grant Morrison. I can't remember. Yeah, that's him.

So he's like a. Who's this guy? He's like a Scottish dude. He wrote it. He wrote it. He was handsome. He wrote a Batman book called the Arkham Asylum. Okay.

And on the back of the comic, I remember when I was younger, I was reading it. And he said that he grew up in the Scottish punk scene, and him and all of his friends were straight-edge. So when he wrote this, I think this was written in like the 80s. It's really dark and it's really twisted. And he said in order to achieve the like mental fucked upness of writing the book, he would just stay up for days at a time because he didn't partake in. Oh, wow. Drinking or smoking.

This guy rocks. So I Yeah, how sick is that? How sick is that? So I was straight-edged at the time So he was doing a signing And I went to him There's a photo

Like a Polaroid But like an actual photo You had to go to Target And get a picture Of me talking with him And I asked him I was like I read this thing

Are you still straight-edge And he was like I'm not still straight-edge But like it was by and far The most important Part of my childhood Oh yeah And like I owe so much to that and shit

And he gave me this Awesome answer And I was like And that's how And that's how I feel. Like, I'm glad I didn't start when I was a kid younger, because I would have for sure abused the absolute fuck out of me. You know what I'm saying?

I'm glad I waited until I was older to, like, be able to kind of, you know. I thought you were going to say that before you met him, you stayed up for days. I mean, tour. Dave McKeene did the artwork? Wow. He did the artwork for a first record. Oh, really? Oh, really?

David Keene. Look at this, bro. It's a big world. small circles man yeah how crazy wow emotionally confusing that's that is I think the name of this episode should be called emotionally confusing you know sometimes when I get out of my own way things has happened yeah sure or the better the more I've been getting out of my own way it's just things one line up a lot a lot better but yeah anyway that's that's what he said about straight is how I feel so that's have

any of ever try to stay up and try to get some kind of like have you been on tour bro oh yeah yeah yeah but that's like yeah you're like just For sure. It's not the same thing. Yeah, because you're trying to sleep and you're sleeping like shit. I'll remember the first time I actually got high. I remember feeling, oh, this isn't a feeling I've never felt before. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like it just, it did feel like, oh, I just got off a 12-hour plane ride that I didn't sleep on. And I'm just a little like, my head was like, whoa. That was like that first time. Yeah. But you have the energy. I've never stayed up with the intention of being like, let's feel crazy. But one time me and my friends thought it'd be funny If we could try to stay it for 48 hours and then do the milk challenge

And we made it to 40 hours For the people who are like Gen Z and Gen Alpha Maybe they don't know what the milk challenge is Actually maybe we pull it up So the milk challenge Yeah there you go Josh Is where you take a gallon of milk Don't judge me because it's whole milk

And you try to chug it in 60 minutes Sounds easy Oh yeah and you also without vomiting Yeah sounds easy guess what it's fucking that especially whenever

you stayed up for like 40 something hours and I remember I was in my friend's backyard and I was trying to do it and then all of a sudden like

my chest hurt so bad that I remember being hunched over and I like it was kind of like you know when a dog knows that it's going to die

it goes off into the woods I wandered off to the farthest corner of the yard to the fence And I remember being hunched over being like, this is it, you're going to die. Like your heart is shutting down. And then all of a sudden,

out of my nose, out of my mouth. But then it was so much throw up that I couldn't breathe. So then I was like, I'm going to suffocate. Like, I'm having a heart attack, now I'm going to suffocate. You're going to drown on your own future. Dude, it was so fucked up. And then one of my friends, he thought that he could do it as long as the milk was chocolate. Oh, what's even worse?

It did. It did not end well for him. It did not end well for him at all. Oh, but chocolate milk is incredible. But, I mean, there are, I mean, like Kobayashi. So true. He's going to complete the no challenge. There's for sure people that can do it.

That can't be good for you, man. Yeah, I think what it is is that, is that I think the majority of people's bodies can't handle that much lactose. Because everybody, I think there's like a, I think there's something like where everybody's like a little. bit actually lactose intolerant. Yeah. But like that's disgusting. Yeah. That's jacked.

Anyway, so I brought a gallon of milk. Oh really? Then actually, Josh, let's get into the next challenge that you took on, our traditional challenge. Oh, so stick to your guns is on tour one year. And we're running late for a show. So what we do is decide that we'll stop at a grocery store because that makes sense. And then we're like, well, we're already late.

Let's stop at this grocery store and get some food. And I said something like, well, I'm so hungry. I eat a whole pumpkin pie because it was like around Thanksgiving and I'm always talking out loud. He's a verbal thinker. And Spider, our old merch guy, is like, yeah, how fast you think you can eat a pumpkin pie? And I was like, I could eat a pumpkin pie in two minutes. And he goes, anybody can eat a pumpkin pie in two minutes. Like, well, I can eat a pumpkin pie in one minute.

And then everyone goes, okay, well, let's find out. And then so we have at this point we've abandoned even like probably playing the show We did make it but um I love I I We go into the grocery store I get the pumpkin pie and the first year I try to do it inside the van and I Made some headway you did not complete it in 60 seconds at all Oddly enough Chris is like uh sometimes he can be like a horrible friend Even though he watched me not for

finish a standard pumpkin pie who's talking shit about the size of a pumpkin pie. He's like that pumpkin pies aren't even big. I'm like what the fucking talking about? From a grocery store. It's not like a mini. It's a normal pie, right?

I feel like a pie is a normal pie. Look at his aunt. His hand is like this. It's like an LP. A real pie is the size of an LP. He got a 10 inch pie. Can you look at that average pie crust? I think it's going to be eight or nine inches.

I think it's 12 inches, dude. Average pie size? average pie crust size. Nine to ten. Yeah, that makes sense. I said eight to nine. I said 12. I said eight to big.

China. That's not 12. He actually said a number that it is. He said eight to nine. Oh, but look, pie pants typically range from eight to twelve. Boom. Boom.

But nine. Nine inches. Nine inches is the most. The pie balance is what's all about. Nine inches is the most common size for recipes and is a good all purpose size. Yeah. But the pie balance. The pie balance.

is important. What does it say? Read it. It says pies, yeah. Pies baked in bands. Pyes, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa. Pyes, I swear to God, I'm not high. Pyes baked in pans that are 11 inches or larger can become overfilled and undercooked. You don't want that. So, yeah. That's what Chris wanted me to do. He wanted me to get s-smouty-s.

Mighty sick. Mighty sick and put a mud pie in my pants. And so, I think we. It's like Instagram was like brand new. Yeah. And we posted it and people are like, ha ha ha ha ha. L-O-L. And the next year comes around and we are on tour, shockingly again.

Shocking. And, um, is that we're at my house? We're at Chris's house. And Chris goes, hey, we have a day off. And Chris is like, you know, we have Thanksgiving dinner at my house. And he's like, I want to go to the grocery store. I'm going to get you, I'm going to get your pumpkin pie. And I'm like, yeah, great.

A regulation. Completely forgetting that Chris is trying to. to kill him. And he comes back with his fucking pumpkin pie that's as thick as this candle. And it's fucking the size of a goddamn fucking good year tire. He's not even trying to help his boy out. Yeah. I don't even think it's, I don't think it's still on our Instagram.

But there's a picture Jesse when he's a kid. Is that you, Jesse? Is that really you? No. No, who is this? It's Jesse. It's an AI version of Jesse. Josh made him.

it and posted it and I thought I straight up thought at first my first question was like where did he get that photo and then I was like I don't think that's me I would love if your hair did that anyway Chris

this is post no this is pre straight edge yeah that's Jesse straight edge see that's I'm horrible I am yeah now he's wearing that beanie he's from bend organ Chris brings back this pie he tries to kill me I'm so unsuccessful that year I get like two slices

down. It was just training, though. Yeah, again, it was almost the same feeling as the milk. Like, I was like, I got to get out of this house. I'm going to die. And then, um, he miagi'd you. And then, uh, it went on for a few more years, had a couple real close calls. And then, close calls. And then it was, it was the, uh, Thanksgiving.

Pandemic? First pandemic Thanksgiving. No. Was it in Berlin? It was no. No, no. It was 2019. He, I don't think he made it. He didn't get it in Berlin, did he? You did the pool job? No. There was one year we were on tour. It was 2017 on the True View record release door in Europe. And we couldn't find a pumpkin pie. So I asked my wife to go to Ralph's

in Los Angeles, get a pumpkin pie, and then go to LAX and fly to Berlin and bring me the pie. And she's so fucking sick. She did it. And she was so worried the pie was going to get messed up that she sat it on her lap for the whole 10-hour flight. And I was like,

you're such a gee. Hernandez's a real one for sure. But then there was there was a year where I think it was 2019 and yeah I successfully ate the pumpkin pie in 60 seconds

and you jumped in a pool I was so pumped I jumped in a pool fully clothed it was great did you even like eat it how do you just how do you do that

just suck it down I have feeling the word sucking was gonna come up I was just sucking some sucking off some pumpkin pie real quick it's emotionally confusing

okay see this is my problem with straight edge bands it's like you find other weird shit to do Hey, you have a try that milk challenge? But now it's like, but like that is a better story than be like, and then I drank seven beers and got drunk on my couch. As sure. Tchere, man.

Of course. We all have her own stupid ice stories. Because I bet you have some great stories before you were 21. Of course, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That were. For sure, it was great stories.

One of you said hammered. He's got great stories. He's hammered. Yeah. He's not, he's not normal guy hammered. He's not just, uh, letting some steam off after work. No. Well, if I don't switch up, we're just going to go on a tangent. But so the band has been around for a while.

We're going, what, 22 years? A Citry Gun started in 2003? Yeah. That's badass. Yeah. I still say 20 years, but now it's even more now. No. The fuck, dude.

Oh, three, we're just during 2025. We are in a new year. Yep. It's crazy. Oh, shit. 22 years, man. Insane. It's crazy.

It's so crazy. First EP, 2003. and then yeah we're about to release our eighth LP yeah eight records out Jesus Christ Eight Yeah nuts huh It's in there

It's just weird when this is Just like when you see like the whole like body of work No for sure It's like wow eight records still doing this shit I know straight up straight the fuck up Picking a set list is now becoming It's always like Do we have to play a song off this record

Like we're trying to just figure out What to play It's putting bangers That's I mean that's the goal all the time like bangers and like a couple or like like a few like deep oh can you look at track eight please justin's a doffus but also it's apostrophe s like he owns the a doofus i really should look at the tracklisting wow who's who's justin he was our old guitar player and this was him he was like doing backup vocals yeah and my brother recorded this in his apartment

like listening to his voice on reverb like he had just never he was just so mind blown about listening to his voice into headphones through a microphone for the first time this is like him just listening to his voice and my brother's just recording him just letting him go

and then you guys were all like track eight yeah exactly we're just I know the best way to close out this EP yeah well you click close it with the bangor dude when's the first time we've played together. I was just, oh yeah, I was taking a trip down memory lane. I think, uh, I think is when we both were doing that Bury a Dead tour. That's 2006. Don't call it a comeback. Yeah,

I was there. 2006. Yeah, I think that was the first time we had played together. Look it up, bring it up. Don't call it a comeback tour. I was looking at days. Oh, yeah, 2007. Stick to your guns. Who was on it? Stick to your guns. Uh, so you guys. Uh, there's one more band. There's one more I think there was an opener right uh uh since the flood that's it go you got it what year 2007 with barrier dead yep that's it oh yeah we did these are free shows way more dates than that that's not the barrier dead no that was just oh that was just us to going out there yeah just our bands yeah there's since the flood good memory wow oh yeah started in on new york You remember that.

Damn, that's 18 years ago. That's 18 years ago. And we're idiots, still doing this. Dude, crazy. It's so crazy. It's weird. What was our first tour together? It was like us.

It was Walls of Jericho, you guys in A Life Once Lost? I think it was the same year. Sick ass tour. I think it was the same year. It was a long ass time ago. It was November. It's crazy to see. It's also crazy to see like these venues.

and then if we were to book a tour right now, it would be these venues. Honestly, sick. Zero growth. This is sick. This is sick. I remember first meeting you, Chris, you were really big on the whiskey

on the decimator. Oh, yeah. You were really big on, you, check out the rig, dude. And then you got me into that decimator pedal. I got one. Yeah, it was like the tightest gate. And after it probably should be.

Shortly after that, I was like, yeah, I'm going back. I was like, dude, it was like, you know what I'm going to show up? I'm going to get all these guys hooked on decimators, and then I'm going to. And then I'm going to be like, oh, nerds you use a decimator? No, that pedal is great, though. You can murder someone with that thing, too. Yeah. Jesus.

I literally thought he was going to say, yeah, when I first met you, you were really big into conspiracy theories. Because when I first met Chris, he'd be like, what do you know about the Federal Reserve? He's like, you ever heard about Kim Trails? Oh, no. Yeah, it was hype for like a good year. I think Chris was the first one that... 146?

Damn, dude. Yeah, Chris was the first guitar player I saw actually had it. Like, okay, you know, it sounds good. Let me go get one. Yeah, you just go back to the boss. Yeah, no. I use the boss in front of the quad cortex now, too,

because I don't like the gate on the quad cortex. Yeah. But Andrew says there's a new one. Yeah, the new one sounds great. I haven't tried out. You tried out yet. That's sick. And you use it quad for your bass, huh?

Yeah. Yep. It rocks. We gotta get a quiet for Dan Kenney. And you run it through the Gordreira preset? That's what I don't understand. Yeah. Well, I run like just like a clean base channel. Okay.

And then I mix it with like a distorted channel. And that's the Gojira. Oh, okay. Just like the whatever Mesa amp that they use for the plugin. Interesting. Yeah. So besides Jesse, you were the next person to adjoin, right? That's correct.

Yeah. How do you guys meet? Literally on tour. Yeah, yeah. So we've had three drummers, right? Probably more, but... Yeah. I mean, filling-wise, for sure.

But yeah, three official, I think. No, four. Because his Elliot was official in the band. Oh, Jopher, Cowboy Elliot. I don't know if you remember him, but yeah, he drummed for us for a minute. One tour or something? But we met for the first time at John Wayne.

We had met a couple times around, but yeah. Yeah. I knew the other drummer, Casey. And Reed was playing guitar, I guess. I also knew him from Irvine where I was from. And then I showed up. I met Jesse. And then the drummer was kicked out of the man, maybe five shows later.

Casey was the one that asked you to join. And Jesse was just like, whoever comes on the tour, that's playing the, like, you're like, I don't care. Yeah, honestly, that we rolled so crazy back then. We showed up to John Wayne with a drum set. Yeah, a full drum set. Are you with the drum set there? Ampeg SVT4 Pro like with me. And then I mean, no, they didn't let us.

Yeah. They didn't let us take the drum set on the plane. Wow, I never heard that in my life. Someone took a drum set to the airport. We had to buy one in Boston. Bro, and you don't know. You find out. You find out what we do.

The thing with that too is like, so they wouldn't let the drum set come on. So we flew to Boston. Then we had to buy a drum set. But then because we got stuck in Boston buying a drum set at guitar center when they opened, we missed the first show in Quebec City. Because we didn't have time to make it. It's called rock and roll, brother. Yeah, that's.

Wait, but then you didn't have a bass head either, right? No, I didn't have a base head. I had to borrow one. But weren't you plugging in direct? Yeah, okay. Well, yeah. I was, uh... This sucks.

We tried to, like, borrow amps from, like, the bands were on tour with, and they were just obviously like, well, we don't know who this band is, like, sorry. So I was just using, like, local... It was every time I die in the Bronx, right? Yeah, well, you know, whatever. But, you know, whatever. I don't want to... They were like, look at these children.

Don't like to touch our stuff. Yeah, I don't blame them, I guess. But so if there were local bands, I would ask to use their amp. But there were some shows, like, in the middle that tour where there were no local bands. So then I just had, like, whatever pedal. It wasn't even like a Sands amp. It was like an MXR, something. And I just went direct.

And I was, you know, like no one was using a direct thing back then whenever this was. So it was just like guitar, cabs on stage, rock in. And then I'm just like in my pedal. This sounded like shit. 16 years ago. That must have been. the tour right after the bear you're dead one?

Oh no. Warp Tour. That was after Warp Tour, yeah. You and I met for the first time on this. Yeah. On 2008 Warp Tour. Really? Yeah.

So we missed that Quebec City show and then we showed up to Montreal. And Andrew's like... Wow. And then... So on November 1st, the tour starts. November 8th. Yep.

The only guy that Andrew knows in the band gets kicked out. Yeah. Well, no, after Warp Tour, Didn't you come to Europe with Walls of Jericho? Yeah, that was probably in between. Because, oh, this is November. Figure up towards 2007.

Yeah, this is November. So this is the end of the year. But I remember, Dog, our manager, was playing guitar in the band. And I would, he didn't care about, he was busy building merch connection in his bunk. Did not care about his gear, anything. I would help him set up his amp, and I would touch his guitar. And it felt like they were, the strings were furry. And he was.

like I haven't changed these strings since warped worth it was it was disgusting dude it was disgusting back in the I remember on the first show in Berlin that we played with dog I turned around and he didn't even have a shirt on or a guitar and he's just marching

around the stage no he had the fuzzy Russian hat on and he was flexing at SO 36 and then spitting water like a water fountain on the crowd just going which is also crazy because we played SO 36 in Berlin like then a few months later It was my first time in Berlin, and Jesse just didn't show up to the set.

So if you stop sick to your guns both times, I just can't even imagine. Here's what happened. I fell asleep on the bus, right? You fly in, you're exhausted, and the time change is. So I'm like, I'm going to go take a nap on the bus. Surely if they're looking for me, they'll check my bunk. Our guitar player read at the time. You remember, you know the double-decker buses.

He just goes to the top of the stairs and goes, Jesse. doesn't hear anything and goes not here yeah and then so I'm blaming it on him but then I was in my bunk and the tour manager of the tour woke me up by taking me by my hoodie and bringing me to the floor of the in between the buses shout out arrow yeah yeah he's like you're 15 minutes into your set I'm like oh fuck and then we got on stage and we played like two songs

it was great too it's awesome yeah well it sounds so much better without vocals holy crap Holy good. There's a lot of people who feel that way. Man. So you didn't have like an alarm or something? Yeah, it's my fault.

Yeah, it is. I'm just blaming it on somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we played San Diego House of Blues. Was it San Diego House of Blues? Yes. San Diego House of Blues.

Was that with suicide silence? Oh, shit. It was wins a plague. Was it? I don't think suicide silence was on that. It wasn't the, uh... Yeah, I thought it was. What was the...

Atticus? Was that like suicide silence on Earth? Yeah, what was that tour? That was a tour that we did, right? I don't think they were on Atticus. Thrash and Burn, I think, would have been. That's the one. Right?

Is there San Diego? No, I don't think it was not a tour. I think it was with suicide silence. Yeah. It was a suicide silence. San Diego, really? It's just like 23rd. House of Blues?

Yeah, Jesse is so late. We're on stage with guitars, ready to go. The stage manager is just like... Put it stick to your gun's suicide silence. Stage manager is just like... Like, you got to go, you got to go. Jesse's not even in the building. He rolls up out front and, no, it is Windsor Plake.

Don't you throw your keys to Nick P? Yeah. I was like, bro, I'm so late. I am so sorry. Can you please park my car? I couldn't find parking anywhere. Oh, yeah, look. Oh, Winsoplayin.

It was all stars. Yeah. Scroll down. Let's see the date. Oh, yeah. No, so they weren't on the show. No, so it was that time. That's the confusion.

The second show of the tour. We miss, we miss, like, half the set, maybe more. And then you could see like a rumble through the crowd kind of, and it's Jesse, like coming to the stage. And just, we, he runs up on stage last minute. I don't know

how many songs we actually play. Toss the keys in the middle of this year. Yeah, he's just No, I just didn't, I'm my, you know, I'm living in Orange County being like, oh, I can be in San Diego in an hour and a half. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And it's at 4 p.m., leaving at 4 p.m. No problem.

Also, can we just look at that line. up real quick. So that it was acceptable to have this many bands on one tour. That was the thing and do I hate it? And like look at those bands.

Like look at the mix. I remember watching you guys play on some nights and thinking this has got to be the worst thing in the world to have to play after 15 bands one stage

you know like it still is that bad yeah after like seven bands or six bands you're like oh fuck. Exactly, exactly. It's just like, it just kind of sucks the energy out of you. Yeah, and also on top of that.

But then you got to bring it. Yeah, exactly. You gotta fucking bring it, dude. Thank you, thank to, uh, tequila and course, light and all that, you know. Secret weapon there, you know? Yeah, sorry, uh, the five of us get together and we, we go on tangents, bro. I'm so sorry. It's awesome.

It's great. You know, we're gonna do the show now. It's your our guest now. I would really appreciate that, actually. That would make my job a lot easier. I just sit back and it's like a fucking idiot, dude. It's fucking chill, man. Oh, you know what?

I wanted to bring this tour up because, because this was 2012, right? Yeah. So this was Mitch's last tour, and you guys were on it. Yeah. And you guys, so you guys had a charity event you did for like three years, correct?

Yeah, it's called Keeping Warm in a Cold World. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you guys did the show and you donated your, proceeds to Mitch's daughter. So, and I remember, when we came back, it was like a year and a half past, and we saw you guys in Europe, you know, but I was still in my, in my haze. And I never thanked you guys, you know, for doing that.

Of course, bro. And that, that money went to his tombstone. I'm not sure you guys are aware of that. Oh, no. So his tombstone is, that's where the journey money went. Dude, awesome. Awesome. Yeah, that was tough, man. You know what I mean? It's like I, you know, grew up even going to showcase and seeing a, Mitch had a band before suicide silence. What was it? Yeah, a dying dreams. Yep. And seeing dying dreams play. And, you know, like this is even before Stick to Your Guns was really a thing, I think. When was, when was that? Like 2001, maybe, 2002 or something like that. But anyway. And, you know, so it's like Mitch was part of our. scene growing up, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, we've done so many tours together and shit like that. So it, yeah, that was a bummer, man. I remember I saw you guys. I'm like, and then

years passed. And I'll look back at the moment I saw you guys in Europe, man, I didn't even thank them. And I felt, I felt like a coward for like actually many years. So this is actually my, my, I don't know, kind of selfish moment where I, I didn't thank those guys, you know. So I never thank you guys. Well, we appreciate you. But man, yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine going through something like that for real. You know what I mean? Like it's like you're the band, you know, the band becomes your family. Oh, yes, the band.

So it's like. It's a family, the best friends, your brothers. Yeah, for sure. And then it's connected to music. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely, man. I was trying to find a photo.

There's a photo of me and Mitch outside of one, some tiny little club. I kept on trying to find it. It was probably on like an old fucking MySpace or something that I don't even have access to. but I did a deep dive. I couldn't find it. It's one of those things I wish I had now, you know what I mean? Of course, yeah. Yeah.

Remember you guys, once you guys dropped that record, a diamond, a lot of, being like an outsider, that was when people started talking about your band the most. Oh, for sure. Yeah, what was, was there a change in, I know that was the first record with you right, Chris? No, that was second. Second one. Okay, yeah. First one with Josh.

Yeah, I joined the band in the studio. I think there was definitely like the record before at Hope Division that was like Chris's first record with the band and that was Chris's like first major contribution. He basically wrote the music through the entire record. You know what I mean? And so I think there was a little bit of like a, definitely a sonic change in the band from the record before to this that I think maybe took a little bit of like PR to like let people know like this is the new stick to your guns. So I think by the time diamond hit is like when people kind of understood. what we were trying to do and go for or whatever. So, yeah, and then, so I think by the time Diamond came out, it kind of like, people were kind of like, oh, this is, this is cool. Because, you know, as you know, it's not just like straightforward, hardcore per se, you know what I mean?

Yeah. But it is funny because I remember the day that Diamond came out and we went to the, the day that came out or the day after, and we went to an FYE or something, and we're like, let's buy the copies. Because that's where I, like, sound scan. that's a big moment a big moment and so we bought the copies

and I remember maybe it was like alternative press or something there was some magazine and we like read a review and it was like it doesn't touch

the hope division and then you guys were talking about like this is bullshit when the hope division came out everybody's like this sucks and now everybody's just being like Diamond's okay but the Hope Division's awesome

and then there's you know that was always constantly I feel like a thing with us where like a record would come out and maybe it wouldn't get the reaction that maybe we thought that it deserved or that we were hoping for, but then it referenced the record before. Right.

And we're like everybody's like just a few years behind us. It's interesting. I think a lot of people especially then didn't know what to handle just like we had such like, you know, those big melodic singing choruses. And I think people were kind of like trying to figure out what the hell we're trying to do. You know what I mean? I think in a weird way we were trying to like almost like combine two worlds. Not that there are hardcore bands that sing.

Of course there are. But yeah, I think that maybe it did it did require a little bit of like letting people. It was too. Understand what we were trying to do. Two metalcore for hardcore. Yeah, exactly. It's like caught in this between, yeah, for sure. Well, but I mean, your band always dealt with that.

For sure. I think it took like the singer, Scott, the singer, Tera, it was constantly just talking about your band. Oh, that was our, him, I say that, it's like one of the biggest contributors to our band. Because, like, his co-sign. Have you guys ever talked to him why he did that? I think when we just did that first, we did a tour with them. It was us, them.

It was 2007. It was right before that, the one we did with you in 2008. And it was, like, our first major U.S. tour, like, full U.S. tour with, like, real bands. I think it was like War of Ages. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's it. All Shall Appare. The terrorist war of ages.

The Warriors, Terror, six year guns. And so we're opening this tour. And I think, you know, at that point, terror is doing really well.

And so, of course, they're agents like, yo, you can't just bring your friends bands. You got to bring, you remember this.

Because when you go on tour, all you want to do is bring your friends bands. You don't give the fuck about how anyone draws or whatever. You just want to go on tour with your friends. But, you know,

you know, at this point, they're getting on magazines and like, they're crushing. So their agents, like, hey,

you need to bring these young, hypey bands and that's basically how we ended up on there like terror did not request to stick to your guns but through the tour we created this amazing relationship and then they brought us on tour in europe and they brought us to australia and they brought us to japan and they brought us all over the world and scott just basically is like yeah this is a band that does things different but like that's what makes all this shit sick and these are good people and you know they're about it and blah blah blah blah blah so i mean we've toured with them probably more than any other band yeah you know so it's like They're there, those are our fucking people like forever.

You know what I mean? Like straight up. Yeah, dude, we all need the co-sign. Exactly. Someone gives you like a nod. You're like, oh, thanks, man. Well, when you support each other, it's just like, you know, because especially music fans, I mean, I was the same way, especially when I was young.

It's like, you can be fickle. If it's not cool to like a certain band, you won't. You know what I mean? Even if you actually like it. You guys were like that at middle ground. It's like, ah, so that you can't really play hard. It was never cool. It was never cool on any side.

So basically the only people left to like our band or the people who are in. not afraid to be cringe. Yeah, shout out boundaries. Love boundaries. Those are our people too. Every time we've dropped a single for this new record for Keep Planning Flowers, there's at some point somebody hits the group chat with a screenshot of one of the guys

from boundary stories being like, check out this new stick to your gun single. And we're like, fuck yeah, shout out boundary. Yeah, they're putting us on. That's cool. And that's cool because I feel like there are like Jesse said. there's like a lot of there's a lack of that now. You know,

I think there used to be such a support for your scene and for your friends. And now it's, it kind of tends to just be like, this is my business and this is my brand and you don't see Nike promoting Reebok. Right, exactly.

It's like, bro, calm down. Exactly. I mean, here's the thing, I've gotten caught up in that too. It's like you get so close to your own band because of all the different moving pieces that to also, go and then like try to be like oh and also listen to this album by my friends seems like in

your head you're like oh that that's too much right now you know what i mean or whatever but yeah yeah there's definitely times when i should have been putting my friends bands on more than i than i have you know what i mean and it's just like it's kind of the nature of the industry when you have your label and your manager and your agent everyone just kind of like you know what i mean it becomes this kind of like pressure cooker especially when you're about to release an algorithm yeah it's like what i What I love about stick to your guns now, it's just like we've all, personally, I'm a white knuckler, and I think that's what they were talking about. It's like, I can get too close to something and I grab onto it, and no one can talk me down to, like, loosening up. And my biggest thing is just like kind of letting it go and letting it play out as it plays.

Sometimes you got to do that. And it's made everything easier because it's relieved the pressure from the pressure cooker. And now we're kind of just doing what we can, when we can. And we said this yesterday. Our mentality now is just like, we're just happy to be here. Like look at all those tours that we've done since 2006. And, you know, we're heading into 2006 next year and it's like,

we're still doing it. So I'm just, I'm happy. Haven't killed each other yet. Yeah. Almost. It's great, yeah. For sure. Yeah, you got to, sometimes you got to let things play out. Yeah, exactly. You know?

You can't control at all. You know what I mean? Especially now. There's all these new bands and these new bands fucking rock. And, you know what I mean? Like, that's what you're competing with. Yeah, you got to let it. Or sometimes I'll let something this play out scene.

So the whole band sees how it played out. Sure. And then like it'll actually bring you closer. Sure. And then the music will get better. So it's a weird thing. Even if something is wrong, you kind of know it's wrong. But if it plays out, they'll all feel more.

You all feel more as like a family. Sure. And then the next decision is made better. Yeah, of course. As opposed to white knuckling it. And then. Because we all want to end up at the same place, but we just have different ways of getting there.

You know what I mean? And so. Yeah. It's also like hard depending on like where you are. at the timeline of your band. Oh, that too, yeah. And the age, too. Being a band is 22 years old and putting on a new record,

it's like, well, I know the record's good. I know that if you're a fan of the band, you're probably really gonna like this record, but it's like, why should someone listen to it? Yeah, sure. Like there's so many new things. And I think like, maybe like for suicide silence, like in the metal world, I think it's like easier to like age.

You know, like, you could go watch, I don't know, Exodus or something. Sure. And be like, yeah, this is awesome. But like with metalcore and hardcore, it's like such a young man's game. Yeah. It almost feels like people go,

uh, they're old. And they just and ride it off. I mean, Gojura played the Olympics. So technically from metal, the Olympics is the ceiling. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, next to the moon.

Yeah, exactly. So it's a new, I feel like in like punk and hardcore. metal cord, newer bands are able to like take an old style and make it fresh again where it's like the pioneers of a certain style could put out a record that's equally as phenomenal and then not get the same respect as like somebody joccing them.

I don't know which is, but it's cool though. I mean, I enjoy that it's like young kids taking their take on shit that came before them. I think people to, kids or music listeners, we keep calling them kids because we know that it's like Josh said it's a young man's game. They want to see themselves on stage.

Totally. Oh, sure. I feel like that was a huge thing for knocked loose. You know what I mean? Not only were they have fucking good band, but they looked like the people who are going to their, you know what I mean? Like people look and knocked loose and they look cool, they have cool style. Like they look and knock loose and they see themselves or they see someone

maybe they want to be or whatever. You know what I mean? And that seems attainable. Exactly. It's a little harder for older dudes. Yeah, because sometimes someone's like, who's dad or you? Yeah, like, oh, this guy looks like my shitty uncle. You know what I'm saying?

So I understand the mentality for sure. And I think the reason maybe metal age as well is because metal fans stay metal fans well into their older. Yeah, you never take off that jean jacket with all the patches. You get it when you're

18 and you're putting the casket right, right, exactly. Eighty-eight years old and you're like, yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've, you know, hardcore and metalcore, you know, it people do tend to age. I feel like it has a higher aging out rate than like straightforward metal does. Hmm. What about bands like terror or agnostic front, those kind of bands where I feel. I would call those the exception to the rule.

Really? Yeah. I think also terror is, has the ability to do so much crossover. Yeah. that if for some reason, if they were maybe taking a dip in popularity for in hardcore, they're able to go out on tour with bands like Dying Fetus and all these other bands and cannibal corpse. And those fans go, whoa, this is super aggressive.

They hear metal in that. Yeah. They hear the metal rifts in terror. And so it's like, I mean, Jesus Christ, this is literally the fucking best band in the world. Like the shows, anytime I see terror, it's just like, dude. Dude, what the fuck? You know what I mean? So that to me is like, that's an exception to the rule

because that's just like, Detroit shit. Dude, oh is that the last? Tide-down. Tide-down fest? God, they're just unbelievable. Unbelievable band. So there's always a exception.

Sure, yeah. Anywhere, anywhere. I hate crust, but I love dystopia. I love tragedy. I'm obsessed with that band. I have sat and tried to find other Crest bands. It's trying. I'm like, nothing.

Not for me. Can I ask you a question? What would you and use as much metal nerdiness as you want? What is, what genre is behemoth? People will call me a pose. If we're calling them black metal. Sure. Okay, so when I was like trying to.

I'm a poser, fuck it. I've heard black metal. I've heard black into death metal. I've heard all these different things. And the same thing. Like, to me, behemoth, I saw him at a festival. And after we saw him at a festival, they had just put out that record

oh Satan oh son whatever the fuck yeah and I was like oh I just am a behemoth fan now and I don't listen to any other music because it was just the most incredible thing I'd ever seen and heard and then I go try to listen to the bands who I guess would like

influence this pop up on the Spotify yeah and I'm just same thing I'm like this is unlistenable to me you know what I mean like I can't I can't listen to any of this you know and I'm sure there's oh the Satanist

that's it Satanist that record is It's fucked. It is so good. Okay, as you're talking about aging, what record number is that? It might be in the double digits. Yeah, and that's 2014 when that came out.

It's like, yeah, bands and it's come out of nowhere and then put out like their 10th record and that's the one that pops off. Yeah, that's their 10th record. Wow. In 2014, that's 11 years ago.

That was a guest. You know what I mean? To me, that's what I respect is like these bands who have, like I don't even care about growth. Like, they've been able to maintain their band for that long. You know, growth is weird.

You can't have year after year after year growth. That's just not sustainable. But, like, just keeping your band maintaining and going, like, that takes so much hard work. So I have respect for- Yeah, there's for sure so many, like, ups and downs in that and be able to ride out the down.

There was to the 10-0-0-5-pop. There was for sure moments in Behemes career where they're like, yeah, let's rap this shit. You know, but who knows? Who knows? Yeah, I think maintaining is actually harder than growth. Oh, 100%. Because once you get to a spot, staying there is...

Because growth can happen out of nowhere for reasons that you don't even understand, especially nowadays. You could just be a band, and then all of a sudden you have a viral song on TikTok, and now you have a thousand people at your show every day. Like, it can come out of nowhere, but then it can also leave out of nowhere. You know what I mean? So, you know, it's maintaining through that and pushing through those moments of like, Like, okay, there's 80 people here.

Fuck it, let's go rock the shit. You know what I mean? Like, this is just going to happen sometimes. At least to the average band. Maybe not every band, but the average band. Yeah, it's super tough, man. It is. But it gets, yeah, I guess for me, it's a nice light.

And in a tonal. I don't think we have put out our best record yet. Yeah, fuck yeah. Yeah, it's cool. It's like just kind of. That's how you know you're going to keep. keep going though because there are bands that we know that just phone that shit in they just phoned it in they've been doing it for however long and they're just like fuck it let's just do a record

and just put it out and whatever they don't even care about it i feel like even like i got into the habit of every time we did a new record i'm just like yes is the best one because it's just something new yeah yeah you know and then i think whenever we put out specter we sat on the record for two years because of the pandemic oh yeah yeah by the time the record came out i feel like i could listen to it and go I don't think this is the best thing. Really? Yeah, it was a really interesting moment. And then not to try to be that guy,

but now, like, with Keep Planning Flowers, the record was so like, the record, Key Planting Flowers was so unintentional. Like, we didn't even, we weren't even having a conversation about writing a record. We wrote a couple of songs, and we went, wow, that went really easy. Let's write a few more.

And then all of a sudden it was like, let's just do a record. And I think that now when I listen to Key Planting Flowers, I'm like, maybe this is, the best one you know like I feel like it's gonna gonna stand the test of time for stick to your guns fans that's great I want this is your first record with uh with Adam yeah rocking nice dude I was gonna ask you man I came across a random video of you playing drums I think you were in a studio for that record I was like what is that

fucking snare it's it's like that deep oh the big silver chrome one or I saw I saw a chrome one and I saw a brass one it's a brass yeah it's a Gretch Bell brass. It's a bell brass. Yeah, that one was from a Bo Bershell's. That's from his library? That's from his library. It's that middle one, huh?

Yeah. It's a bell brass? Really? Yeah, that's what we tracked the full length with. How heavy is that sucker? It's probably at least 20 to 25 pounds. It fucking sucks carrying it around. But how did you get it?

It sounds like a pickle, though. It sounds like a... I'm the worst person to ask because like any video, I post someone. Hey, Jay, go to his Instagram. Someone will be like, how do you get your

snar atone? And I feel like such an asshole. I literally just crank the lugs until they stop moving. It's like the worst way to do it, but it like...

That's why we got them. It works. Totally Instagram. Oh, Instagram. Fuck, I should have picked a better. Do you even know your own? Yeah, you go right there. What's your Instagram?

The Instagram is at Cathedral of Despair. Nice. Okay, Jay, go down. I should have picked a bed. Down. Down. For sure, sure. One, what is it?

All it is, like, I've been asked a few times, and it's a dumb reference to a joke from the movie what we do in the shadows. Not even the show. It's from the movie. That one, I was borrowing Hawthorne Heights's scenario. Why? Because I played Ohio's for lovers with Hawthorne Heights.

Keep going down, Jay? I'm destined to find this. Okay, I was like, what is that? It's like a studio one? Yeah, okay, bottom right. Bottom right. Yeah, boom. Yeah.

That, crank it for him a little bit. Hey, Jay, there's, Jay, there's, Jay, just two things playing, man. I was gonna say, that's, I'm like, damn, this, this piece. I was like, check out of it right now, bro. That's a Bob brass? Yeah. I mean, I probably could have done it better, but it's good. And you have no idea.

It's just, dude, awesome. Yeah. I mean, honestly, here's the thing for the record, Bo and I worked on tuning it to like a real note as a point. to how I normally tune it. Because the way I tune it, I literally just do it for live. Like, this snare is going to cut through fucking everything when I play it.

And that doesn't really necessarily translate well recorded. Yeah. Because it sounds fucking really obnoxious when it's actually under a microphone. Really? So in the studio, we're just like, let's dial it back, make sure it's like on the higher spectrum.

But nowhere near what I do live. Because live, that thing is just, there's almost no body in it. Like with how much I crank it, it's just a, like just literally just all attack basically

interesting yeah yeah sounds fucking sick I guess it'll always be it's another mystery yeah yeah I'm really anal about snare tones it's just so hard to get like the perfect one once you get it you're like wow

and you can't get it back do you have a go-to one or is it is it within the context of the record I have a go-to but we've been trying to recreate it and it just can't sure sure our first record that high-pitched snare it's a bell brass

We've been trying to This doesn't We tune it higher and higher It just doesn't do it anymore It's over, it's gone It was a moment in time Yeah, the snare on the cleansing Is one of the reasons why I started cranking

The fucking messer It was very funny Wow You're partly to blame for It's your fault motherfucker Appreciate that man So a lot of things are my My fault

Like stress and Fuck, that's so fucking stupid You guys Who mentioned in your band that in hindsight, disobedient, your record wasn't the direction that you would have went. Yeah, I think what I said was, I don't know if I said that.

I think what I said was I think that keep planting flowers is the record that should have come out after Diamond. Oh, okay. So I think that if you were to listen to Diamond and then listen to Key Planting Flowers and then listen to disobedient, that would feel like a very natural progression. because to me, at least,

key planting flowers sounds like a blend between Diamond and Disobedient. And there's actually a song on Key Planning Flowers called It's Me Up that was part of the disobedient writing sessions.

So we've been sitting on that song since 2014. Oh, wow. And it was one of those things where we love the chorus and we love the beginning and the chorus but then we just hated the rest of the song. And then when we were in the studio with Bo,

we decided to like kind of revisit it to see if we could kind of you know bring it back some life and then jesse's like yeah this thing's just been sitting in the garden she's been growing and now we figure it out so um but yeah that that i i think that that the new record feels like it actually belongs after diamond and before disobedient wow disobedient was good for us i mean that was our first time with john feldman which was like yeah yeah yeah that's bring it up like a name or whatever and after the first day with him we were like fuck this we like we yeah we were like we hate this dude jesse are you serious are you serious Wow, that sucks, dude. We rolled in, Chris and I, me, Chris, Andrew.

It's my boy right there, dude. Here's the thing, it turns around. It turns around. So, me and Chris and Jesse had written 19 songs, I believe. And then me, Chris, Andrew, and George, our own drummer. We learn them all. We go to Andrew's parents' house, and we have, we're in the garage, like we're 12. Yeah, wanting to be prepared because we're going to work with John Feldman.

We got to know exactly how to play on. Of course. So we dialed them all in, right? Yeah. Never, in my experience of the band, has Jesse, Jesse always prepares vocals when he's ready to track. So we don't ever even like. Except for Diamond. We don't ever expect there to be.

But we knew going into disobedient. We knew that Jesse, like, here's all my melody. He's like, I got some ideas. You'll see him in the studio. Right. Cool. Great. Trust you.

So we go the first day to John. Feldman and he goes all right show me what you guys got and Chris and I're like yeah check this out we got 19 songs brother and so we put him on and he goes does have vocals on it and we're like no it's all demos and he's like all right next does this have vocals on it no it's like next does have vocals on it like oh then I don't care about him and then we're like and he goes yeah all I care about are the vocals and the drum beat and then we're like okay and then he's like he goes all right uh here we're gonna do and he goes you guys grab some acoustics There's two acoustic guitars in there.

You and Chris grab them. Jesse, here's the keys in my car. Here's a notebook and here's a pin. Here's some directions to the top of a mountain. I want you to go to the top of a mountain and just write a song, write anything in your head. It can be about anything to any tempo, to any melody, but just write it, write down the words,

write down the melody, everything. I'm going to go inside the house, take a shot of the espresso, sit down at the piano for a minute, and then me, Josh, and Chris will reconvene in like 15 minutes. And then he leaves. And then Chris and are like, what? And Jesse's like, okay. And I remember everyone's so confused. Jesse drives off. We're like,

we're probably never going to see him again. Chris and I get the guitars. And we're literally just like going like, like, what are we supposed to be doing? We don't know what we're doing. I have no clue what's coming. What's supposed to do. Feldman comes back in the studio. He's like highly caffeinated. And he's like, he's like, he's like, I got an idea. I got an idea. And we're like, and our brain, we were, we were never thinking. and we're going to write a song in the studio because we never do that. We always write the songs beforehand. And so he sits down and he starts doing this thing.

Like a progression. And he starts doing a progression on the piano. And then he was like, it's super impressive to watch him run into the vocal booth and do a vocal on it and then come back out and then just keep doing that. And Chris Nader's going, what the fuck is going on?

And he writes this thing that to us sounded like a car commercial. And then we were like, yeah, this isn't like us at all. But we're just like, okay, what's happening, what's happening. And then he's like, okay, no, he's asking us just to write parts to it. And we're like, I don't know what's going on. Jesse comes back on, it's been a couple hours.

He comes back and he pulls me aside and he goes, Josh, I don't like this. And then I go, yeah, this is, this is very bizarre. But you know, if it's today's day one, let's finish the day. And if we don't like it, then we'll just fire him. And he goes, we're going to. going to fire John Feldman. And I was like, they were like, we both sat there and talked about it. We're like, well,

what's the best thing for the band and the record? And sometimes just like a big name on something doesn't mean it's the right fit. And it's no disrespect to Feldman, obviously. It's an, you know, an extremely great producer. But we were just like, oh, this might be the wrong fit. And so then Jesse and I were like, well, let's, we kind of just agreed. Let's just finish out this day and see what happens. Right.

So Feldman has written this riff that. is not for our band at all. It is like, this does not work. And he turns around and he goes, okay, guys, write something to it. But you know,

what he did, he muted the music and then left his vocal and then straight up, like, you'd be holding a guitar and you just go, all right, this can be anything.

And you're listening to what he tracked. And Chris and I just don't comprehend like this can be anything. Like, I'm aware that anything can be anything. Yeah. But I don't know what I'm supposed to be.

doing and then like we're literally just sitting there like not even like picking hard like we're just so confused and that that thing is on repeat for what felt like an eternity and then i started playing what is now the first riff to the song nobody and then we're like chris like oh that's kind of cool and then i'm like yeah okay this could work this and then philma's like yeah yeah track it track it The post-course, the nobody, is just like four big chords. And it's me playing four chords to figure out what Keith Feldman sang in. And he's in front of me going, nope, not that one. And I'm like just trying to figure out.

And it's like, it's literally me going, E, G, C, A. And he's like, that's it. And then we're like, we're like, what's it? I don't even know what you're talking about. But I just hit the chords in the right order for him to get excited. And then he was like, that's the post-corps. And then he's like, breaking down, break down. You know, and then we're, so everyone's just center going like, uh-uh, what?

And then we finish it. And then he plays it back. And it's, it's the song, Nobody. And we're like, this motherfucker just Jedi mind tricked us. And we're so confused. And he's also like super adamant about he doesn't give you, or at least then, um, he had a policy where like he doesn't give you any demos. So you don't get demoitis.

So it's like you always store your studio. Andrew. is secretly voice memoing the song when it's playing to the speakers. Wow. We're all in my, at the time, Honda Fit, which is now Jesse's Honda Fit. Shout to Honda Fit. We're all in the car leaving. And we're like, I can't believe that.

I think we were like, we think we just made the best stick to your gun song ever. Like, and we were about to fire this guy. And then Andrew's like, I got it on voice memo. And so we plug it in. we're blasting it fucking chucking down 405 South and we're like this is fucking

and we fucking crash because we hit a pipe there was a hose I think it was a street light had fallen and we fucking going 65 is fucking ramped over that

motherfucker and all these cars hit it and everyone was like crashing and shit and we got out we were like this is fucking insane and then yeah and then we finished with the record

and then you know like nobody is Fuck your skateboard Arguably the biggest Yeah it's arguably the biggest song I've ever had And it's still a song That we all love

You know And I think that it also like That That definitely influenced us a little bit On future records or future songs Like oh this can kind of be in the world of nobody You know so it kind of opened up

like a little bit more options For us sonically Interesting So yeah it was a really What was Can we Where is the post-course? Yeah.

Where is the post-course at? Right after the chorus. It's coming up. It's coming up. Crank it, Jay. Or is this going to be the breakdown? Oh, yeah, yeah, it's after this. No, it's so.

So now we're rewind. Yeah, you got to rewind. To like the first chorus. Keep going back. Yeah. Yeah, now it's going to go. Yeah, listen to this part. Me trying to figure shit out.

Next. Next one. That scene was shot in the observatory parking lot. Was it? Oh, that's awesome. It is. What keys he's singing in? This works.

So does this one. So does that one. There's your part. Record it. That's literally what it was. Whoa. So you had no idea what was going on. There's no mind.

Well, here's the weird thing is like, I'm recording, I'm writing the guitar part to something Feldman sang, which later Feldman mutes. and then Jesse sing something completely different. Yeah. So it's like his vocal was just a guide to let it be anything. Yeah, it was just really weird. It was this really weird way for us like open up our brain.

And then what's crazy is then we spend, then I think the next day he was like, hey, I can tell that this isn't, this is really different for you guys. Give me two more days of doing this. And after that, if you don't like it, we just do it however you guys want. And we said great. And then I think we ended up writing one or two.

two more songs. One song made the record, the crown. We wrote that one and we wrote another one that didn't make the record. And then we're like, all right, let's cut it off because we're not writing anything that's getting a super pumped. And then we went to just doing the record the way that we typically do it. And then after we finished that, we had also, we had also never, he's the reason why we also do drums last now. Because last. Yes, because and it makes sense, It sounds insane, but it made total sense once he explained to us and once we experienced it. Because once the vocals are down, the drums can just do small accents to pop melody out. You know, so if something's like, ah, I can make a-ba-ba-da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.

And you would never do that in the beginning. Yeah, and you could move the guitars around easy. Because the riff is just da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. You know, so you'd never think of it. We're definitely a different band than you guys are. Yeah, totally. This is crazy, man. But then that whole recording was pretty wild because after we finished all of the pre-production,

he was like, okay, I only want Jesse the next day. And we're like, what? Yeah, vocals first. I remember Jesse's gone for like 10 hours and he comes home. And I remember I had just got in bed. I'm just laying in the dark. And I hear like, and Jesse, I was always like, Josh? I was like, yeah, are you asleep?

I was like, no. He's good. he's like, I think I just recorded the best vocal song. And then I go, wait, what do you mean? Like, I'm confused. Wow. And he goes, and I go, you were actually recording for the record. And he goes, I think so.

I'm not sure. And then it was the same way all the way even through George, our old drummer. He's like, I only want George. And George leaves. And then I like open up Instagram and I see Feldman like post a picture of George. And he's like, 12 songs in five hours. This guy's a beast. And then George came home.

And he goes, I don't know what I played at all. And he goes, I don't know if it's good. I don't know if it's bad. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I guess we're just like a bunch of people who, I mean, I show up late to shows. And then we get put into like a hyper professional situation. And I just don't think we knew how to deal with it. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like it was a learning experience for sure. I learned a lot from Feldman. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't regret going to him at all. It was just definitely like, we just, he was just like, how do you not understand how to be in a professional studio? And we're like, we're idiots. So yeah.

You're right. It was a full circle thing. Yeah, kind of, yeah. Whoa. So first you wanted to go home and hated it and then turned out one of your best songs. Totally. I mean, biggest. Yeah, depending on.

I think even with recording, keep planting flowers, that was what was also really cool about Bo because Beau definitely understands how the band operates in the world that we come from. But also, Bo has, like, definitely been part of like some very successful things and so that was like a really cool blend cool blend so he understood like how he understood how to be professional with uh with us being unprofessional yeah interesting wow so uh this um out of curiosity so so he gave you a vocal melody and a click track you guys and a click track you're you're you're you're play chords over. You had no idea. There's no feeling, right? There's no feeling. You're just like

trying to figure out what the hell is going on. His melody, I think for that part was also like, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, it wasn't anything that you, yeah, it wasn't anything that you, yeah, it wasn't anything you would hear and go like, hell yeah, we thank, thank you. I, thank you. I can't believe you wrote this for us kind of thing. So it wasn't like that vibe at all. It was like seven, five, three, five. Dund, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, da, it. It was literally us looking at each other to going like there's no way this is going to work this is going to be terrible he like does super simple shit that will just help you unlock thing unlock yeah because none of those that chord progressions

not on that song it's not on that record that vocal melody's not in that song it's not on that record he just provoked the spark to write the song yeah what the heck and then and then he gave jesse something completely different he so he gave you not what he's saying jesse got the music that we wrote over to his vocals that no longer existed, that he wrote his vocals to a riff that he wrote that didn't exist when we wrote the music. Like it's, yeah, it's straight up Jedi Mind Trick shit. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to have to re-listen to this. Wow. It's pretty great. And it's, I feel like it for sure, like, influenced, like, me personally for thinking like, oh, I'm like, I have writers block and I'm trying to work on something. And even on the new record, I was like,

I started a song with drums. Like, I programmed out an entire song where I was like, I'm just going to control the energy how I want it to go. And then we're going to just dig through riffs and puzzle it together. Yeah, that's the first track on Keep Planning Flowers. Huh. So it's like, I got this drum beat. Let's write to that.

I'm like, okay. Yeah, so it's like just to like come at, like, to try not to write the same shit over and over again, you know, just come at a from a different angle. That's a great idea. Because, yeah, we do need people to kind of just stretch our mind. Yeah. So someone kind of needs to just help you stretch it, man.

I go, wow, okay, this is not going to sound good at all. Then once it's done, you learn something. That's the hardest part also. Like with songwriting in general, if you're doing it your way or you're trying somebody else, somebody else is trying to like, you know, provoke something in you is to like actually have the faith of like this could be something. You know, like, oh, this sounds really boring. I mean, there's even parts on this record where I was like, oh, that's not my favorite. part. And then as soon as Jesse laid vocals down, I'm like, that's my favorite part.

Wow. You know, because you just don't know what it's going to be like or like, you know, there's other songs where that we finished. And then after we recorded, Chris did some extra production work. And then it's like, oh, this little piece of production makes the part fucking so unique and so different. And it gets me so hyped on it when I thought it was just like, you know, a seven out of ten. Just, you know, just a fine thing. Huh. It's true. It's just weird.

It's just you got to sometimes let biscuit. You got to have faith. Full circle. My favorite song for me, guys, is leave you behind. Oh, yeah, sure. It's that record. So when I'm digging in a band, I always put it on Spotify, I just let it go. That song came on and I was like, oh, wow, cool.

And then I hear that I come across this interview of you saying about about the record. So else it's kind of funny. I'm like, that song, today I probably played it like 30 times. No, sure. I mean, I think, I love that song. I think what happens to labels is because we like to sing. Mm-hmm.

Is they then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, well, why don't you guys write like a more, like, radio accessible? That's the word, accessible song that can, like, have more reach to the average music listener and shit. So I think that, like, I think being with Feldman, he definitely tried to push a little bit more like, rock influence things than in a way that to a place

that we probably wouldn't go ourselves No. You know what I'm saying? The three of us wrote left you behind. He wasn't even involved in that. Left you behind is like one of the first riffs

I wrote for Stick to Your Guns, which is very strange. What the fuck? And then I think maybe he heard that and it was like, oh, he kind of got more rock and it started doing like that. Well, I was even thinking pre-disobedient

Like even from like even from like Hope Division to like I think it really started on Hope Division is like the push to like do more like really big singing stuff so when you brought the riff by the time to Disobedient it was a normal thing that we had already done Right but I think because like the label at the time We're writing these other songs they want more of that singing stuff

Because it's like to them the singing means like more people will listen to you So you're going to sell more records on that kind of shit They hear singing and then they go money Yeah exactly exactly Oh, he's singing money. And I like to sing. You know what I mean? I like to.

I genuinely like to sing. So it's like, it's not that I'm against it, but I definitely think sometimes we would get pushed in certain directions to produce things that maybe we wouldn't do on our own. Not unlike left you behind. That's such a personal song. And like we like the riff. So it's like, yeah. But definitely don't listen to this. This is terrible.

Yeah. So you just had that intro riff? Yeah. But I think that whenever, so like if you listen to Hope Division, there's a song called Some Kind of Hope. And it's like, we always refer to it as serious core. Serious core. Okay. So it's like, this is like, the song is very serious and you're very sad.

You know, and it's like slower. It's emotional. It's emo driven. It's emo driven. Yeah. Right. But it's all screaming. So I think when I wrote that riff, I thought that Jesse would be like screaming over the whole thing.

Oh, wow. And then he was like, I came in. Yeah, he was like, check this out. And then I remember, Maria Christopher like, God, this guy's a fucking good singer. That's cool.

You know, it would be like if the song that we just released last week, the title track song of Key Planting Flowers called Keep Plaining Flowers, it would be like if Jesse sang over that song. Like I was expecting him to scream like he does on Key Planting Flowers. but I thought it was I mean obviously I thought I crushed left you back yeah oh yeah but like this is a beautiful song this is a riff that you could think that there's going to be singing and there's no singing in the whole song you know oh yeah yeah it's all screaming yeah I do I

love that if it's like a clean riff but there's screaming over it yeah yeah yeah it's serious core it's emotionally yeah that's what I was gonna say opio it's sick That's great. Anything that I missed? I think we're in an hour 45 right now. Jesus. You got to end this fucker, bro. End this. Grab it up.

But I want to say publicly that I have the utmost respect for all you guys and your band. Actually, I've been wanting to have you guys on for a while. You, Jesse, you're actually a very outspoken guy. And I respect people that speak their minds. I appreciate that. So I appreciate that. So anytime you want to... It gets me into trouble a lot, so I appreciate that you can appreciate it.

Yeah. Do you guys ever talk about that? Like, hey, like, do you guys ever come in? Hey, Jesse, kind of chill out, man. Oh, definitely. Do you have, like, or do you have, like, support? Definitely. I think it's both, you know what I mean?

Because it's like, I think it really hit us, and I won't even bother getting into it, but it really hit us a couple summers ago. And, you know, I think now exactly what we're talking about, where it's like we have mortgages. and families and like people rely on us. And this is our, you know, this is our income. The consequences are different from when we were missing shows. And when I'm pulling up to a show and saying, hey, Nick P, can you park my car or whatever?

You know what I mean? Like there's, there's consequences now that are that are bigger. So it's like regardless, of course I, of course they feel like supportive of me or whatever, like thing like that. But it's like now, you know, you just got to tread more carefully, I guess. You know what I mean? because it's like for as much as we we want to say like yeah hardcore is about expressing yourself you know it's or or whatever music in your art is about expressing yourself let's just say that yeah you know there's there's there's there are lines that that you know you you i guess

you find them you know what i mean and when you cross them it's like you find out the hard way i guess so i've uh i got this from uh i read the uh the uh former CEO of uh starbucks harold harold's he had a he put it in a in a way i was oh yeah that's Like, you know, someone says it, oh, those the words that I was looking for. Sure. Speaking with transparency through a tighter lens. Sure, sure, sure. And I've done that with my band.

At first I was like saying everything that was on my mind, seeing everything that about the band business and then I'll find out, I'm going to call it Ernie real quick, but I found out the drummer is telling all of Orange County. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. So I was like, how do I speak with transparency, be myself, have my integrity, not lie, but tell someone this, you know, it's a tightrope. No, it is, it is. It is.

Sometimes you find out the hard way, but also, like, just from the reaction of this album and, like, how supportive people have been, it's like, you know, sometimes it's, it could seem bigger than it is when it's happening, because it's like, it's a big deal when it's happening, but, like, ultimately people come back and you can, like. Yeah, time's your friend. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So we're just doing our thing and saying what we need to say. You know what I mean?

And also learning sometimes maybe there's a way to say it that's not as aggressive. You know what I mean? You say your opinion that's not so weaponized. You don't have to weaponize your opinion, I guess, is the idea. Yeah, it's scary because with your art, sometimes how you express your art, well, I found the word spillover. Yeah, exactly. So you want, so you're used to screaming on stage, but when you do that on other areas. Yeah, sure, sure.

Like something as simple as like your like your relationship. Like you can't you got to you got to take your artist and kind of need to like, okay, how do I express myself not this way? But, you know, having like a civil conversation. It's hard. Totally. I mean also like going on tour with these dudes for months on end and then coming home to my fiancee and being like, what's up fucking loser? What's going on? You know what I mean?

It's just like I can't. I've been on the road with the guys for a little bit. I got a I feel you I feel you man I mean she throws it right back and you know she plays hard just like I do

but you know sometimes you got to remember like you know some people can take that kind of shit and some people you need to like you know you have to adjust your your approach

everything has a has its time and place yeah and now everybody's there are more people that appear to be reacting instead of thinking

sure you know so it's like you you say something or you put something out or whatever. Now more than ever. And then now it's just like instant reaction instead of being like oh let me think of it. Yeah. That guy's not thinking for sure.

Dude that guy's just reacting bro. Promo for the new becker. It's awesome. All right so the show is tomorrow huh? Sick. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Excited. Observatory mugshot, Warriors. Put in the Warriors. That's awesome. Fuck yeah, dude. Humped.

I watched them play the Four of the Children Festival in Los Angeles two years ago? Last year. No? Because last year just happened. Oh, sorry,

2020, so yeah. My bad. God, what a fucking cool band. Yeah. You know. They're awesome.

When that War's Hell record came out. That was something where you went, this is different. Yeah, they got like monumental.

Cool riffs. And I was, I was playing this band Evergreen Terrace and Casey Jones and we flew to California to do the eulogy

record. West Coast tour and it started at Chain Reaction. And the lineup was Warriors, Donnie Brooke, maybe Shattered Rome, Casey Jones, Evergreen, and until the end. And I remember watching the Warriors play that night. And like Singer came out with a hoodie on and like the hood was up. And they started and the crowd.

And I was like, this is the coolest sounding thing. That record is so unique. So super, super stoked to watch them tomorrow. That's gonna be sick. Well, thank you guys for your time, especially with what's going on in California currently. You know, I have, again, I respect your band a lot. And again, thank you for what you did for Mitch, you know. Of course, brother.

I appreciate it. I'm telling you, I felt like a chore with like years. I didn't even go to their room and to say thank you. Like, man, you're fucking pussy, dude. No, no, no. No, for sure. I can understand. And if I was in your position, I could see myself.

feeling the same way, but it's like, you know what I mean? Like you got to go through when you got to go through it, you know what I'm saying? It's true. Hell yeah, bro. Yeah, well, that's what I think that's what they called growing up. Exactly. Growing up. Okay, so new record is out now.

This either going to drop next Monday or Monday after. So, yeah. Hell yeah, brother. Again, guys, thank you, honor. Yeah, thank you so much, man. Good luck, guys. Handshakes old around, love, love, love. Thank you.

Of course, brother. All right. All right, everyone. That's it. Later. Peace. Thank you.