Garza Podcast - 171 - MACHINE HEAD | Robb Flynn: New Album, The Blackening & Facing Childhood Trauma

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Garza sits down in-person with Robb Flynn. Vocalist & guitar player of heavy metal band MACHINE HEAD. New album “UNATØNED” out April 25th! https://linktr.ee/machineheadSPONSORS:Sweetwater - https://imp.i114863.net/rnrmVBDistroKid - https://distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF!Garza Podcast Coffee - https://conceptcafes.com/product/garzapodcastcoffee/43Patreon - Coming Soon!CHAPTERS:00:00 - Robb Credits Garza Adding ‘From This Day’ to Live Set05:11 - Chris Barnes09:23 - The Burning Red11:45 - Murder Car & Ross Robinson13:50 - Guitarist Logan Mader Quitting15:23 - Bar Fights & Internally Falling Apart18:33 - Getting Therapy30:16 - Slipknot in Studio w/ Machine Head33:40 - Being Sober for Writing Records39:28 - Being Adopted41:50 - Accidental Weed Smoking, Tobacco Pipes & Olympia Beer45:00 - Old R&B, Pop & Oldies Music Upbringing48:01 - San Lorenzo, CA1:03:08 - Barfly Movie1:11:05 - Getting Naked in Vocal Booth1:15:53 - Director Michael Martin1:18:45 - Confronting Childhood Trauma1:21:24 - Supercharger1:25:40 - Crashing Around You Video After 9111:39:22 - Through the Ashes of Empires1:45:58 - Struggling Financially1:50:28 - Getting Turned Down by 35 Labels1:53:36 - Resigning to Roadrunner 1:56:59 - Imperium2:00:30 - Coldplay2:05:01 - Classical Guitar Lessons2:07:57 - Taking Mescaline2:11:41 - Robert Fripp2:13:56 - The Blackening2:24:30 - Imposter Syndrome2:28:05 - Winning “Album of the Year” & “Golden God” Award2:29:54 - Metallica2:32:46 - Dad Rents Guitar for Robb But Joins Band to Sing2:37:06 - First Time Getting Drunk Was to Metallica2:41:19 - Meeting James Hetfield2:43:29 - Playing Cover & Original Songs at Parties2:46:07 - New Record out April 25th & Ø in Each Song2:51:43 - ‘Unbøund’ Riff2:55:41 - Punk Rock2:56:37 - Would Robb Ever Do Something Differently?3:04:40 - Mitch Lucker Memorial Show & Mayhem Festival3:25:06 - Sacrifices3:38:53 - Writing Lyrics at 3 AM3:46:46 - First Seeing Korn3:50:37 - Biohazard3:52:28 - Shotgun Blast Whiskey

Do you remember what you saying? Yeah, of course I do. It's embarrassing. Rob Flynn, it is honor to see you, man. Hey, brother. Thank you for it. Thanks for having me on here, man. Any time, dude.

Any time. Hell yeah. So, yeah, times are different. I approached you under the influence of alcohol. I was like, oh shit, it's Rob Flynn, dude. And I started singing the words to, from this day to you. You did. Yes.

Yes. And you're wearing a suffocation shirt, and I was like, fuck this motherfucker. I thought you were clowning. So for, okay, so there was a period of time where you thought I was, like, being like a serious dick. Totally. Okay. I apologize for that, but I was actually serious. Totally.

I realized that, you know, later, but, like, it took a couple of times because the first time you were just so drunk. I was like, I don't know what the fuck this dude's deal is. Yeah. And then the next time you were like, hey, man, are you ever going to play from this day? And I was like, fuck you. I was just like, what the fuck? Yeah. Because you were still wearing the same suffocation shirt.

And I was this like, this dude's just being a dick. And you're like, no, like, I'm serious. Like, I really like that song. And I was like, oh, yeah, like, it was a surprise to me. Like, I didn't, you know. Yeah, I think someone had to tell you, no, he's like a new metal guy. He's like the new middle guy. He's obsessed with it.

Yeah. He just wears Stefanel shirts. Yeah. You know, kind of like, kind of like a cover-up. And then, and then I remember that, I mean, in many ways, I give you that credit for this because we weren't playing from this day. At the time our drummer Dave was refusing to play that song and had been refusing to play it for about seven years at that point.

Years years. Like hated it. Didn't ever want to play it? And I was like, I'm cool with playing it. And you continually asked for us to play it. And then we were on tour because we did like five tours together. It was kind of crazy. Like how many tours we did together.

But we were on tour with Megadeth. And it was coming up. in Oklahoma. Yeah. And your birth, it was your birthday coming up. Yes. And you were like,

I don't know how well it was turning. Dude. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And you were like, dude, if you played from this day for my birthday,

it would be the sickest fucking present ever. And I was just like, and you hit me, you gave me like a good week's notice to like to like lead up and like work on him. And so I sat there started working on. Like, come on. Like let's play it. Like this kid wants to hear it for it.

Like fuck it. Let's fucking play it. you know yeah and uh and finally he relented and we'd be jammed i remember you were raging you were fucking stage diving and fucking in the pit and fucking raging and the crowd went crazy like the crowd went fucking crazy and i was just like dude like we got we got to we got to start playing this song again like it's fucking people love it man like fuck it did uh did something happened to to you and the guys when you dropped out one record burning red it was like some kind of like we're never going to play these songs like ever

no i mean when we dropped that record we did we were doing tons of songs off that record you know for the whole cycle and for for years after we did those songs and then at some point i just think that like you know you're doing festivals and we're trying to do all these songs off of the blackening which are like

10 minutes long and you know clenching the fist of descent and halo and it's like something's got to go and so those it was it was it was that record that went which is weird because Because isn't that one of like your, like the top selling ones?

It is. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. What the hell did you? Yeah. You know, we were just, you know how it is in a band sometimes. You just kind of get in a, in a zone, and you're stoked on your new stuff, and you just want

to share it with the world. And you get, you know, you play, I've played from this day now, like, three thousand times or something. Like you just, you're like, I could not play that song for a while and get away from it for a minute. Yeah, we got our 10,000 hours. What's that? We got our 10,000. thousand hours yeah you know just riffs yeah yeah you guys went all this but i do credit you with bringing

that song back into you machine heads uh live playlist you know like it it was you who did that and after that we brought it back and it never left again really yeah it hasn't left it's still like we still play that shit every day every day now every day now oh my good at first it's probably like i'm not playing that song for rob oh for garza okay i guess do it was cool yeah we were i mean I remember being in Dallas and, yeah, Dave had the E-Kid out. And you guys were all jamming it. I was like, oh, wow. Yeah.

I was like, that's kind of one of the coolest things anyone's ever done for me. I said, man, they're going to play a song for me, my birthday? Holy shit. That's dope. It was, it was killer, too. Like, the look on your face when we were playing it, you were just so fucking stoked. And I was like, fuck yeah, dude. Like, this is what it's all about.

You know what I mean? It is. This is what it's all about. Like, just that you, you being as stoked because you were made my whole show. Like, I still remember that show. like it happened you know last week yeah yeah and me yeah speaking like you know these are like the moments this is a moment too like just you know sitting sitting across you having like the i wouldn't imagine it would be me doing this i would not imagine someone told me a few years ago i

would be doing this hanging out with you just dude you're killing with like with like you're you're gonna ask rob flin questions the you're killing it though this is fucking awesome you got the killer show like I watched a couple of uh what did I do I watched the cattle decapitation one I watched the Adam D one and then I watched that Chris Barnes one dude it was so good it was so good man like it was insane and and honestly like I cried after what's that I cried after did you yeah you look like you got a little emotional yeah I think I think we both knew something happening like transcended like the conversation like something it was late to you was almost like 1 a.m.

Oh wow. And it was over. Yeah. And you guys did it after the show? Yeah. Yeah. That was the first after show. When at the whole,

it was like, damn, this is, you know, it's like similar to being in like a band where you're just grinding, grinding and grinding. And something happened.

Somebody finally this fucking cuts through. Finally. That was like a big moment like for a, and luckily I think with his age, he just, I think he just, he's a new person you know and i i took it very this is my first time even i think talking about it publicly but i um i doing research on him and coming across these videos of him i took it very personal

it's like you guys don't even know him and i wanted to i took it personal because i because uh when you have experience being like the internet comes after you for whatever reason like yeah but that i'm a first off i'm a very i separate the art from the artist That's the kind of person I am for better or for worse. Like you could be a dick to me and I was still like listening to the songs. I'm a very, you know, painting like like whatever. So for him, I'm always like for, obviously I have a soft spot for like people like in bands, singers or artists.

I'm like, that motherfucker wrote those songs. That brain, that wherever you think, wherever you think those lyrics came from, that came from him. Yeah. And that's a, that's a permanent step. Stamp in death metal like and people try to take that away is like dude I took it very personal Dude I got to say like I've never I've never I've never met him like I've never we've played A couple festivals here and there but we've just never crossed paths and I'm pretty like I kind of keep to myself anyway like I'm not like mr. You know get out hey man hey you know like I'm just that's just not me and

Like I fucking loved that dude at the end of that podcast I was like I was like how do you not like this dude he's so fucking like He's funny, but he's like, you know, crazy story. Like the whole, like, you know, family stuff that he was going through and then just going right out on the road. And I was like, you know, it's just like, anyway, just kudos to you. Fantastic job on that. You know, I had a podcast for a while, but nothing like this. Like that was like so, this is so professional.

My shit was just like Zoom calls and, you know what I'm being? Yeah, this is the real deal. Hell yeah, man. This is the future. I think so, too, man. I think bands need to take some, kind of take the power back, you know, put it in their own hands, you know. I kind of see, like, I kind of see where things are going. You know, you kind of have to own your shit, you know, and anything I could, anything I could do or the band could do that you own this and no one could take it away.

That's kind of, I think that's where it's going. And you probably, you probably have more experience than me, Rob. I think, like, the music industry or music in general is always last to kind of adopt any kind of new thing. And so I'm just trying. So this has helped me to kind of stay like a head. Yeah. And then also give, you know,

any band, no matter how big or small the band is, they have, you know, they have a platform now. Yeah. I'll talk to anybody, bug you know,

I'll talk to anybody. Yeah, it's killer. Yeah, I mean, you had like peeling flesh dudes like showing how to do slam riffs and shit. And I was like, anybody, dude. It's killer, man.

I was, as a fan rob, um, what made you guys, what really made you guys make the step to do the burning red? Because it kind of came out, kind of came out of,

nowhere like what did you guys just jumped into that kind of a record well I mean that was album number three for us and I mean it in in my mind it really isn't out of nowhere like you know we're always had groove we always had hip hop elements yeah like if you go back to the burn my eyes you know people a lot of people talk to me now about like the dynamo 95 video you know like people oh yeah talked to that all the time you know you know like I'm doing a method man rap in the middle of the song Thousand Lies, you know, like I drop a Method man rap like you're halfway through. I don't know if people knew it was Method man back then. I never heard about it so right now. Yeah, but but I did. You know, like we were, you know, we covered colors by Ice T on the second album. You know, that was a bonus track on that like I, that hip hop thing was always there. And then with the net with that record, you know, I do feel like the hip hop thing kind of dominates the conversation when people bring up the burning red. I think. might be it which to me isn't really the most like to me the biggest thing for that record was how melodic we got like we really really lean hard into the kind of cure Robert Smith guitar tones

you know like a lot of melodic vocals a song like silver or something like yeah that's almost like it's almost a pop song you know like it's just kind of soft vocals and four chords for a verse and yeah and then obviously the song the burning red which was you know for me at the time terrifying it was absolutely terrifying to think about putting a song that mellow on a machine head record like really that has no heavy guitars that's pretty much just all soft vocals like it never you know i never go into the heavy you know roar i never go into a screech it just and you know there was a lot of i mean there was a lot of i mean there was a lot of things you know what i mean there was so many things going on at that time period that that

you know it just that record became a snapshot of what the four dudes were going through in their lives now you were in a middle of it yeah yeah whose idea was it to go with ross then it was uh well dave used to be in a band with ross yes so they they were in a thrash band called murder car and so murder car murder car yeah they weren't very good they weren't very good i thought it was called something It's something else. I guess they're back together. I heard they might be back together. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, look a long-haired Ross. I never seen this fucking picture. Wow. Hell, like his hair's as long as yours, dude. Whoa. I never seen Ross Robinson with long hair like that. Yes.

Yeah. He was a total thrash guitar. Dude. Made him fucking. I remember him being a thrash, but I never seen the thrash. Yeah. Yeah, there it is. Yo, dude.

I got to, what did you find that, he just I just watched him to Google it he just went murder car boom

murder car but he uh so you know we had we had kind of known Ross obviously just from the scene

we you know the corn you know we had we knew the corn guys and so we knew that you know that connection from Ross and yeah and um

you know I think we just you know we were ready to kind of make when we when we finished our second record and it was a you know with big success. And like at this point, we've sold like,

you know, over a million records worldwide and two albums and we're, you know, but at the same time, it's like, things are kind of changing. Like, I feel like we, if we make another record, this is just like the shit that I'm thinking in my head. But if we make another record in this same vein, like we're gonna kind of box ourselves in to something that we might not ever get out.

There's a lot of bands that are starting to sound like machine head. And I would just like- So we're a spot to be in. And I just, I want to just kind of go some other direction. And I don't know what that is, but, you know, with the help of Ross, maybe we find it. And, you know, personally, I'm going through this massive life change. And musically, we lost our guitar player, Logan. And he kind of got like pretty much just consumed by drugs and alcohol.

And, you know, he's probably. He's taking like 18 volume a day and doing like, you know, half a gram of Coke a day and drinking every day and smoking weed all day and night. And, you know, he's got 33 eyeballs tattooed on him. And he's like, I've got 33 eyeballs tattooed on me and I can see out of everyone. You know, like he's like, he's going hard. And we're just like, whoa, dude. You know, he's just like, I try to talk to him. And he's just like, I was reading the cabal and it says that you're the devil with the king's card.

And I'm just like, bro, slow down. Like stop with the value. You know, like, we're trying to like... It's a miracle he's still alive then. It really... Honestly, like the fact that Logan Mayter is alive and doing amazing and producing and he's sober now. It's like, it's incredible.

And I, I love Logan. Like, him and I have totally, you know, like, you know, mended our relationship. Beautiful. But at the time, it was like a really ugly breakout, you know? And he's like, tell, you know, he's like, you know, he's like, you're all anchors. I'm going to be a rock star. You're just holding me back. And I'm just like...

Sick. So he quits and like him him quitting Kind of sends me like I'm already been kind of in a downward spiral like I'm in my own You're right you're in your own shit I'm going through my own shit I'm kind of going through this very self-destructive phase in my life like Burn my eyes with me like Spitting out all my anger into the world and I'm getting in fights every Friday and Saturday like three times a week

I'm getting in fights at bars and fuck in clubs and you know just a fucking insane life and then like burn my eyes blows up and now I'm famous and I everybody's like you can't get in fights like you've already got like lawsuits coming at you like you can't they got to stop like you got to you know like people are just want to fight people are just trying to pick a fight with you now because they want to turn around and sue you so don't like you got to stop like you can't take the bait and so then I just it's like it's like I turned all this anger inside and then I just became I went down this really self-destructive path.

And, you know, like, cutting and, like, bulimia and, like, oh, like, I really got, like, fucking lost for a minute there. And this is all, like, during the more things changed tour cycle. Like, so Pantera tours and Osfest tours and all these big moments, but, like, kind of internally, like, really, really falling apart. And so, you know, I go out with my wife and I've become, like, pretty much a full-blown bulimic at this point. Like, I've always been overweight.

Like, I've always. always like had body issues like thinking I'm fat even when I'm not fat and and and so on the road I like just start throwing up like every time I eat a meal I'll throw up because I'm like that bad yeah and I'm like because in my head I'm like fat and I need to lose weight because I'm the singer of a fucking band oh wow and I got to like do this and then I get off the road and then I just fucking gorge on food like I just eat like there's no I drink and eat and I just fucking glutton Oh, you had a, do you have a full-on, like, eating disorder? I had a full-on eating disorder, yeah.

I'm going to turn this over so I doesn't see that. Man. But I literally had, like, a full-on eating disorder. And, you know, then I'm gorging on food. You know, I go out to my, I'm going out to dinner. And then I come back and I'd, like, sneak into my house, like, sneak into the bathroom at some point and throw up behind my, you know, she's my girlfriend at that point. She's now my wife. But.

And then one time, like. Like I'm throwing up in the bathroom and she comes in like we had just gotten back from drinking wine and eating a ton of food. Yeah. And she's like, what are you doing? And I was like, and I had thrown up and the throw up had splattered back up into my eye. And I would, you know, had she not been there, I would have just dried it off and she never would have known this because I had been kind of doing this behind her back for a long time. Wow. And I remember like I looked over at her and like I turned around and looked at her and I've got fucking.

throw up in my eye and I'm just fucking you know I'm like finger in my mouth and I'm like what the fuck am I doing like what she's like what are you doing I'm like I can tell her like I'm throwing up like I've been throwing up and she's like how long I've been throwing up for like nine months now like I'm just fucking throwing up and like what like what dude she's like dude like you need some therapy bro like and I'm like you know like maybe I do like because I'm kind of going through all this slogan stuff after he quit and this is all going on and you know so I go into therapy you know like I start taking therapy with this lady who's this amazing lady and uh you know like when you start doing you know like I want to change like I don't I don't like who I am I don't like where I'm going

I don't like this person I've become and I feel like fame's consuming me and I feel like you know just whatever is consuming me like my own demons. I don't want to blame it on fame. Like my own demons are consuming me. We all have them. And so, and so I start doing therapy while I'm writing this record. And, you know, like when you start doing therapy,

they call it like peeling the onion, right? Like you're kind of just taking these layers of your life and you're kind of digging in. And after a while, you just, you know, you're just ripping open scars and you're, you know, scraping out the maggots and trying to clean it out and you're trying to sell yourself back up again. And that's what, you know, the goal, at least, is.

And so, you know, I'm writing these songs, and it's really like I start pouring all of this, you know, trauma from my past, from my childhood, into the lyrics and into these songs. And, you know, the Burning Red kind of starts taking the shape. Like, I don't want to like, just whatever the song's gonna be, I'm just letting it kind of take me where it is. And it is decidedly, like, it is decidedly,

less heavy than, you know, the last two records that we had done, but I just, I didn't care because I was like, this is where I got to go. Like, this is where the music's taken me and this has to, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you've always been that way. I've pretty tall, talk about that. You kind of let the music take, take you where it needs to go. For sure. Yeah. Probably, like, even, like, lyrically and stuff like that. Yes, definitely. So you're going to therapy and okay, so I have a little experience with this, but, um, probably, So you're going on therapy and you're probably getting therapy from Ross. So you're getting like the double hammer.

Later on, yeah, when we do go into the studio with Ross, he is also like his own therapist, right? Yeah. He's like a therapist. I think his mom's a therapist too. So he knows all the tricks. Yeah, yeah. I think he got those techniques from his mom.

Yeah. And then so I'm going in and he's like, you know it is kind of like first of all i love ross like ross is amazing like great dude came along at a perfect time in my life like i really needed a guy like ross as a producer you know like up until then i had had colin produced my records and it was very hands off it was just kind of like whatever you want to do like just do it like you're good you know like it was very little direction like whereas ross was like really like like i want you to dig so fucking deep and like you know like he just would poke you and fucking it was like psychological

warfare just like you know like we're playing drums he's you know my drummer's tracking drums and he's like throwing fucking you know a plant of fucking flowers at his fucking head like exploding above him like he's like Jesus you know like you know just like to whatever make to get you out of your mind you know what I mean to like just get you into whatever headspace that you know the song calls for cool and and I had never experienced that like I've never experienced someone who was so like into the psychological side of music, you know, and trying to bring, you know, that out of you. And certainly as the singer, like, doing that. What's up, everybody?

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to do it, which I hated because like... You hated it? I hated it because it's so fucking... I mean, it's a beautiful area. Like, you're in, you're in fucking Malibu at the top of this fucking mountain. You got to drive seven miles up all these fucking cliff,

like, steep-ass cliffs to like get there and then it's the last house on the fucking, yeah, it's crazy. And it's beautiful, but it's so fucking remote that you just like, you just get cabin fever. Like, I got... I mean, I was there for a few days and I was just cabin fever. Like, I'm climbing the fucking wall.

So like I was constantly going into town to like just I'd just go hang out at the fucking grocery store Because I just like I was like this is too fucking remote for me like I'm freaking out and But in other ways it was it was awesome I mean we're all together we're all living there we're all in a room There's a you know there's like a shared bed loft kind of situation that we're yeah all sharing in with like spiders everywhere and you know like it's yeah like big ass fucking spiders everywhere and And it's a weird time for ross because ross has ross has just signed slip knot to his i.m.

records label he's signed i am he just produced the vanilla ice record you know and so like i keep forgetting about that and so like all the you know and then the corn dudes are kind of around here and there we had actually gone like on the more things change i went up and hung out like on their like record

i hung out with the corn dudes on their like the last day of the record they were throwing a party because to celebrate the last day of recording the second album life is peachy and so I was there with them you know all hanging out with them on that so we knew we had already been there we kind of knew the trip but uh but it was it was just so like you know like vanilla ice is coming to the fucking studio like once a week or something why just to hang out like just to hang out like just to hang out with Ross and we were having like we were in this is like you know it's

funny because like I'm going through therapy and I'm trying to like, you know, I'm kind of trying to be sober. Like I was having, like, I was really addicted to a million fucking things. And, and, and then, like, we go down to fucking, you know, we're in L.A. Like, fucking, like, everybody wants to fucking party. So then we're just, like, every fucking, like, three or four days, we're having just a raging party of an indigo ranch. And fucking vanilla ice is there and fucking amen's there and slip back in a million. Like, Dean Carr is coming in.

And then we go into town and fucking just snorting fucking, oh, my God, so much fucking cocaine. like everybody had so much cocaine like back then like it's just like you couldn't go like two people without like hey let's do some fucking lines and and so you know it ended up like being this very kind of

drug fueled recording and and I'm like I'm very conflicted at the time because I'm trying to go down this one route with being in therapy and then I'm having you know a really great time like fucking just fucking getting shit faced and doing blow all the time so yeah and

you're on like you're on a roller coaster man it was it really was this was this was this picture there yeah yeah yeah that's that tiny little studio man it's just a tiny little fucking studio man it's just a tiny little fucking studio so when you guys tracking all in like the same room and bosses there in the middle just like fucking so they were so if you go back that one photo so that's the main room and then i'm in the vocal booth and so we're playing everything basically live i'm I'm singing it live, you know, and just trying to capture, trying to capture whatever. I mean, we still went in overdub stuff,

but Ross was really, really all about trying to capture a band playing live, you know, and even if you didn't use those tracks, you would, you know, keep them, then maybe bring them in to comp them in later, you know, but like to keep some, that there's a first, he was the first guy that really tough me about like there's a first take magic like there is a there is something about the first time you go and record it or the first time you play it like sometimes even when you're just writing it and you don't know what you're doing and they and you just capture fucking lightning in a bottle and so

he was a really big proponent of that first time i'd ever really heard that and i fully believe it and do it now with all of our records and that was a huge learning lesson from him oh wow He was farting that. But, you know, so he really wanted to do that, and it was cool. So, yeah, he's cut his hair by that point. Yeah, that's the engineer in the background there. I can't remember his name. I'm totally brain farting on his name.

Is that Chuck? Yeah, that might be Chuck. Okay. What was he? I got a bunch of demos from this, too. Oh, yeah, Chuck, we called him Chuck Ruffs. I got a bunch of rough mixes from that record. And you're, you're definitely like an archive.

Yeah, it's Chuck. Yeah, Chuck's awesome. he was killer and you're like a he was a totally like hippie dude like yeah dude how you doing man he was the best did uh so yeah you guys before you guys started jamming you would uh like

he would probably say something to you huh he he wanted you to really feel like goosebumps huh yeah he like wanted you like kind of feel this he wanted to he wanted the fucking hair on your flesh to he did I probably haven't told the story before but you know like there's a song on the record I was super mad at Logan at this period of time in my life like course super fucking mad at logan like you know just felt like he betrayed me so there's kind of like a a logan disc track on the record called devil with the king's card right because

remember he told me sure i'm the devil it's so anyway and and i don't even know if logan knew that for years after i told him later he's like oh really and so because he was pretty lost but anyway he joined soulfly and then he's doing like a bunch of photos shoots and stuff and so i'm singing that song devil with the king's card and at one point there's like a full like centerfold of Logan madeer in one of the magazines and he just runs up and sticks it on the window at the vocal booth he's like right here right here motherfucker

he's like sing this you know sing what you're singing to this and I'm like he was just funny he'd just come in and like he'd come in and like shake me around sometimes when I was doing vocals like just come in him and Joey Jordanson at one point that song the second song on the record nothing left like Slipknot was there we were both

there at Indigo really at the same time they're getting ready to record their first album we're finishing up recording our third out we're all living together they're living in the studio studio sofas and we're still staying in the bedroom holy and uh and so at one point you know i had kind of hit it off with joey and so joey's like watching me record the song nothing left the vocals and he's in there and at one point they both like i'm doing the buildup you know they're got nothing left for nobody else i got and then him and ross run into the vocal booth and they just

fucking start literally moshing with me like in a circle pit like while i'm I'm doing the vocals. And then they start screaming. So you can hear a scream that's kind of like, I got nothing left for nobody else. I got nothing left for nobody. That's Joey and Ross doing the, like, live with me in this room that they had just run in. And it just sounded so sick.

We were like, fuck it, keep it. Like that's badass. Yeah. That's fucking crazy. I don't know. I guess the timeline is there. Yeah. That was 99.

I was there through the whole mix of their album. Are you serious? I was there almost every day of the mix of the record. They worked on that song. It was at that point, the rest of the band, like, Corey and, you know, Sean and clown and everybody had gone home. And it was just Chris Fane, Joey and Ross mixing the record. It was really just Joey and Ross, and Chris was just kind of hanging out. But, uh, yeah, I heard there are like...

They worked on that song, Purity. I'm shitting you for like 30. I'm not shitting you. Like 30 days. straight like they fucking worked on that song that was like the first song that that was the one that that they were trying to get all they were trying to get like this is the template right like this is the song purity is the template interesting yeah we always out like one song okay let's mix this song yeah but they did it further and i was like guys you got to move on like you're tweaking i was like

come in like they're on day 25 i'm like you got to move on like you're just tweaking like just go do some do another song come back to this one like you need to just get it and they finally did that and then the the rest of the record fell into place. And so like, yeah, like I was there. Like I had, I had an end of album party with Joey and Chris when they finished recording, they're mixing the album. We all went out to a strip club and fucking everybody got shit faced. And Joey had like three drinks and was fucking annihilated.

Drummer's. Chris, Chris jumped up and it was like, you know, dancing with the chick on the stripper pole. And fucking, we got kicked out of the strip club. It was awesome. It was a great night. Joey's like, I fucking love you, man. Like, got like, he was like, He was one of those drunks like, I fucking love you, man.

Like, I love you, dude. Let's fuck start a band, dude. I'll quit, I'll quit my band. It's all good. Totally. Yeah, yeah. So funny. Because he was sober.

He was fucking stone cold sober that whole time. That's the other room. I heard they're all sober. Is that you think? They, I mean, they, I don't know if all of them were, but like, he for sure was like, stone cold sober, wouldn't have a drink. Like, even when we took him on tour, right, you know, right a few months later, he was like, sober.

Like, no fucking way, man. like I can't drink anything like I can't he's like I gotta fucking kill this I was like fucking good for you man and I was like the fuck I'm just like like anything that came in front of me like this point so yeah I'm always like I was like I was thinking back of my should I go sober for like a hot minute is right writer record but it's just I don't know maybe maybe it has to with age I don't know because I was I didn't drink till I was 21 so first record okay sober as fuck oh yeah no no we no no nothing I I I wonder if there's something like during the recording or just in general that whole time

frame okay yeah and what we were i got i was sober for burn my eyes were you yeah i was totally sober for that whole like recording period mixing period like i wouldn't touch a thing like i just really i was like i got to keep my wits about me like i just don't want anything to you know i just need to be as clear as can be because i just want this to kill how long how long is that what like a month or two months How long were you? Yeah, about a month. Yeah, probably two months. Is there something to that?

Is there like maybe like a like like like a period where you should probably step back and it's like focus like hardcore. Just like a month. It's just a fucking just that little period. Is there is there something to that? I mean, I've been. I've done it a few times. I mean certainly. Certainly back then like you know, you know, when we record now it's like kind of like a longer process.

You know, like we we kind of just demo and then the demo becomes the album. You know what I mean? I mean, like, whereas back then, like, he had to go into a studio for a set amount of time. And then you had to mix it in a set amount of time. And now it's kind of, you know, it's a little more flexible. Sure. But back then, I was like, got to be sober, at least for that record, for burn my eyes. That explains the focus, you know?

You guys just fucking just fucking lock. Yeah. Dude, Rob, thank you for those stories. You know, I was for someone that's like not there. That's all, that's all we have. You know, I just want, give me all the stories. I heard when you drop up there I heard people talk about

they thought they're going to die Oh my God Because it feels like you're going to go off Off the cliff First of all it's a it's a one lane road It's one lane And it's a dirt road With a fucking literal

500 foot cliff To the side of it No guard rails no nothing Like it is And Ross You know Ross has got like a badass BMD Like a sporty BMW And he would try and take it

At like 70 miles an hour Like the whole time So it was even more terrifying writing with him anywhere. But it was crazy because it was so, you know, it was beautiful. Like it was so beautiful. I mean, like you're just up there and it's like you're looking over the ocean. And you know, the ocean's kind of far away, but just, you know, like forest. There was a canyon over to the right where you could like hike down and there was a river that ran through the canyon.

And you could like, you know, it was very peaceful. But at that moment in my life, I just didn't want peaceful. You know, like, I don't know why. Like, I, I, I, it was an amazing experience. But for me, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it was, you know, it's honestly, like, it's a very, and, you know, like, as I'm thinking about it, saying that to you, like, it's a very, I can't listen to that record. You can't listen to a record? I can't listen to that record. Because, oh, yeah, because you just associate.

your memories and feelings to that particular time, huh? I do. And then it's negative. But then you have other people that love it, but so there's like this conflicting thing. There are people that love

that record. And they asked me to play songs off it all the fucking time. And they always asked me to play the last two songs, which is five and the Burning Red. And I'm like, I can't, man. Like, I can't.

You know? Like, I, I wish that I could. I can't, I, I, I can't listen to the song. I don't want to play the song. You know, like, I don't want to think about the time. Like, I don't want to think about the lyrics. I don't want to think about where I was or what I went through.

And I certainly don't want to do it for a tour. You know what I mean? It's coming up. It's going to come up in a what, fucking four years? What? Four years. Oh, wait, no. For the 30th anniversary.

30? Yeah. Yeah. It would be. And you know, I say that now. I have played the song. I did it for an electric happy hour. I played it.

We did the, it was the, it was, I can't, it was just an anniversary. I don't think it was like any particular anniversary, but it was like the anniversary. And I brought Aru, the guitar player on that record in. And we played it live on, you know, my live stream that I do most Fridays. Yeah. And I did feel. We played the whole album top to bottom. And, you know, in some ways, it was.

like, you know, like, you know, I, I, I kind of enjoy talking to you because you can relate to this more than I, like, a journalist could. Sure. Because, you know, sometimes you get up on stage and, and you're not, I mean, you're in it. You're, and you're in the moment and you're playing and you're rocking. But then you're kind of like, oh, I wonder what I'm going to have for dinner tonight or, you know, oh, fuck, did I remember to wash my clothes? You know, like, you're kind of like having this inner monologue that has nothing to do, you know, and it's not, doesn't mean you're not in it, but you're just like at that point, you played, you know, you're on your 100th show and you're just fucking, you know, you can think of other things.

Yeah. And so I kind of, I forced myself to go in to that mode, like into like, you know, like I'm outside of myself mode. I'm just like, oh, think about dinner or think, you know, whatever. Think about 49ers or whatever the fuck, you know what I mean. So I, and I got through it. Like I got through it without really connecting to it. Also, so you had to like disconnect yourself completely.

I did to jam it I did hmm yeah because you had a you had a very interesting uh from what I understand like a like a pretty rough like upbringing you know you were uh you were I know this but you're adopted right yeah hmm and uh you the first time you uh spunk weed was six right yeah wow dude how can I how can I how can the six-year-old brain process that you uh because you do you so so when you're uh when you're uh I adopted um do you call them your parents like you know this this is my dad yeah for sure okay cool so i mean i'm i'm i'm six months old when i'm adopted okay and so i've gone through very you know from from what i know much i don't i don't i've never you know reached out to my uh biological

parents but i the handful of things i know is that you know my mom was a teen pregnancy 14 now she has me at 15. Oh, and then as she's about to have me, the guy leaves. And so puts me up for adoption. Mm-hmm. And then I go into the foster care system, and I have,

I know that I've had, I had three different parents, three different foster parents who were caring for me. And that the last one, there was like a girl that I connected with. And then my parents adopted me. And so, you know,

lucky for me I was adopted by you know loving parents you know because I could have gotten lost in the foster care system like so many kids have you know where they're just like in foster care forever and then eventually foster care turns into juvenile hall which is pretty much always the case and so you know like if you're too long in the foster care system eventually they put you in juvie which is just like where kids go and actually that happened to my dad that's what happened to my dad and that's what happened to my dad And so, you know, look, I was lucky that, you know, some, I got adopted and they picked me up. And, you know, they really wanted to have a kid. My parents were, they couldn't have children. They tried and tried for years after getting married. Yeah. And didn't happen. So, you know, for them to get me, it was like, you know, they were just over the moon.

And so, yes, that was mom and dad to me. And I never looked at it any other way. That's great, man. Yeah. That's cool. Totally. And so, so your dad, will let you, so he had like the classic pipe and he was smoked tobacco from it, right?

Yeah, so he also smoked weed, which I didn't know at the time. Of course, yeah. But he, in front of me, smoked tobacco pipes. Yeah. Like an old corn cob pipe, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally exactly like that. Like the more, the rounded one. Yeah, the one that says, yeah, that one.

Yeah. Mr. Brog. Yeah. Classic mustache, right? Classic. Huge beard, huge mustache. Okay, classic. He's like kind of going bald, but he's got like this wild hair that fucking sticks. Nice. And he will let you take a hit from his tobacco pipe, right?

I'd sit on my dad's lap and I could, I could take tobacco hits and then he'd let me, let me drink, let me drink his Olympia beer. How old were you? I'm like, yeah, I'm like four, like these are my, like, some of my earliest memories. Like, these are like great childhood memories of mine. Like my first memories are like me sitting on my dad's lap that smoking a tobacco pipe and drinking Olympia beer. Oh, dude. Yeah, that's right there. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's making a lot of sense. So what, you went to like your uncle's house and you thought, and you thought he was just smoking tobacco. And then you told him, hey, my dad always lets me smoke it. So he was probably fooled. Okay, here, have this, but it was weed in there. Yes. And so after I smoke it, you know, we were always over at my, my dad, my uncle was my dad's twin brother. So we were always over there. And my cousins were basically like my brothers and sisters. We were literally together all the time. and so he goes over there like we over there and I do that I take the hit and then the next thing I know like I'm walking around the party and the whole ground is just like this and I'm like what is going on like I just I'm so confused as to like why everything is so fucking and I go up and say something to my mom and then I don't know like whatever but you know at the time I don't realize it but later on they're just like oh yeah your uncle gave you you know hit a hit a weed

by accident, I guess, or on purpose, whatever it was. Did he get in trouble? He did get in trouble, yes. Yeah. That's what after I told my mom, I was like, I feel kind of weird, mom. What she said? I don't remember what she said. I remember there was like kind of a dust up about it.

Dang. You thought it was tobacco, dude. So you're drinking Olympia beer at four years old, five. Yeah. Dang, just ready to rock. Yeah. It's weird because it's not. My dad wouldn't smoke weed around me.

though. Oh, cool. He wouldn't, I didn't know that he did that. And he told me years later when I started smoking weed. I go, yeah, I used to smoke weed when you were a kid. Yeah, I went, I went to the garage and did it. Yeah. To the garage.

Hmm. It's funny that they, uh, they allowed you to drink beer, but they won't allow you to listen to the, to the, uh, drug beetles. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

Because he's like, it's like, he's smoking weed, but he, I mean, maybe it was just because of the, I don't know, like when I think back to it, like, you know, my parents, you know, you're, what you're referencing, which is awesome, you know, it's super rad that you've even know that about me, like, about that. But, you know, my parents were, like, I grew up on like old R&B. Like my parents listened to like, old soul, old R&B, Chaka Khan, you know, fucking Earthwind and Fire, Commodores, like, that's all the music that was played in my household.

and you know my parents would let me listen to the happy Beatles the happy Beatles like I want to hold like I want to hold your hand yes and not the hippie Beatles which is like you know sergeant peppers and all that shit you know like revolver all the the drugged out shit and you know and then pop music like just the pop music of of the day like whatever it was you know like disco songs or whatever so you know that's kind of my my main musical upbringing and then my dad would listen to like old oldies like oldies like oldies from the 40s like the bugle you know the boogie boogie bugle boy of company B he's playing like that type of like 30s and 40s type of music all the time on the radio that's part of the real druggie music right i mean just just that just that name

oh so oh so it's three chicks yes holy the andrew sisters yeah andrew sisters yeah and he loved this shit. So like, you know, he's, it did something to him that like, I think, I think this music took him back to, you know, more, more innocent times in his life. Can you play, oh, you might get a copyright strike if you play it right. A good, a good, a good, a good seconds. Okay. Yeah, this is sick, dude. Yeah, he loves this. So he plays this like, so at what, he was the It's all kind of like wartime music and, you know. It's wartime, huh? Yeah, this is, yeah.

So to him, this is like, you know, he, he would be an amazing podcast. He, like, if you ever had my dad on your, like, it would blow your fucking mind, dude. He had the most insane life, you know, and so whenever he listened, this to this I think it kind of takes him back to you know he's he's taken away from his alcoholic mom him and his brothers when they're like four years old and put into like you know foster care and then it

goes into juvenile hall and then they kind of go back and forth and then his mom just eventually like ups and leaves them and like and uh and sad man you know so I think that when he hears this kind of stuff you know, it takes them back to like good memories, you know, like hanging out with his brothers or, you know, like, even hanging out with his mom. But, you know, like, they live in a trailer, you know, so I grew up in a place called San Lorenzo. So my parents, when they adopt me, they're living in East Oakland on 42nd and international, like in the fucking hood, you know, and we live there for a while. And then eventually we move to just, you know, just San Lorenzo, which is San Lorenzo is just a poor white trash town. in the Bay Area. You know, it's a few cities below Oakland.

And, you know, I know most people look at California as like, you know, milk and honey and like, you know, but there's all kinds of like little crazy white trash towns like all over this state, you know. And that's what this is, you know. And so, you know, we live in a very small three bedroom house in San Lorenzo. I mean, if you saw a picture of it, it's basically like a mobile home. But it's got one of these roofs instead of a flat roof, you know what I mean? Okay.

And, and so this house is like five blocks away from the trailer park that he grows up in. And so, you know, even though we were, we were pretty poor, you know, he was a, my mom wasn't working. He was a baker at a place called, um, I forget it. He's got a bakery in East Oakland that he works at, Merit Bakery. And so, you know, but I don't feel like we're poor, but you know, like how kids are, like, at school. they start making fun of you for being poor and having the same clothes he had last year and so you know and I'm just like whatever

fuck you and he's just like he'd take me walking he's like you know what fuck those kids you know like when they're like don't don't listen to them and he would take me and we'd go on walk me and my dad walked everywhere we went on hikes and walks every single day

like we would go like hike somewhere or we walked to someplace and you know kind of just talk and and uh we would walk by his trailer park that he used to live in. And he's like, I know your friends, I know they make fun of you for being poor,

but he's like, you're not poor. Like, this is poor. He's like, we, me and my two brothers and my mom and her boyfriend used to live in an aluminum shed. No heat, no AC, no running water, no toilet. We had to shit in a bucket and carry it to the community dumping hole

or whatever the fuck it was. That was a quarter mile away. on the other side of the trailer park. You had the shit in a bucket and then walk it somewhere. And then carry it somewhere and dump it. And he's like, that's poor. So like no matter what those kids are saying, you remember you're not poor.

And you know, like it was a, you know, of course at the time, like I'm a young kid and I'm not like thinking like, oh my God, this is like this huge life lesson. But it was this huge life lesson, it just about perspective and how everything is subjective and you know how you can, You know, don't, you know, don't let motherfuckers get you down, basically.

Yeah. I know that kind of a thing. So, yeah. I, uh, you know, I, uh, my, so many of my memories from that house are, like, songs like that and that kind of music. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. What, what else was going on? Cause, uh, you also mentioned, like, uh, you don't like listening to, uh, the sound of, like, of, of, of the train. Right. Yeah. So, uh, so, uh, so you had, like, a good family. but we hang around other kids that were just being shitty to you like like what um like what like what like what like what was that well well i'll tell you i'll tell you that story but i'll start it off with the this one so the other day so

just literally two days ago before i came down here i uh i got a buddy who made me a cowboy hat that's got like you know a bunch of like bone bone beads around it and the and the and the bead the thing broke and so i was like hey can you fix my my hat you know because i really like the way it looks like all these fucking you know i like dead shit i got fucking bone and you know i like dead shit chris and i appreciate that and so i go over his house and and when i got there i was like oh wow like they're kind of near my old house in san lorenzo and and i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna cruise by there after after i'm done hanging out with him and i haven't i haven't been to this neighbor in 20 years.

It's been 20 years. And so I go down there and it's trippy because San Lorenzo is kind of between two, you know, it's a couple cities away from two cities that have really come up in the last like 20, 30 years. You know, like there's Hayward, which had a big come up and there's San Leandro on the other side of it with its downtown had a big come up. But I pull into. San Lorenzo to go look at my old house. And I swear, it's like time has stood fucking still.

It looks exactly the way that it did when I was a kid, except for all of the, all of the houses now just have, like, old, the paint is just peeling off. Like, it's the same color as I remember it as a kid, but the paint's just peal. And there's bars on every door. There's bars on the windows. There's a matter. There's tattered American flags with American flagpoles in almost every front yard. And there's rusted ass cars.

Like like like and I remember being rusty as a kid and now it's a really rusted ass car and it was just such a trip to go. I actually took a picture of it. Like I took a picture of my old house just to like, you know, and picture just to like, oh, wow. You got to post it. Yeah. I thought about it. And I was like, I don't know.

Like. I think, I think you should. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what, is it a bandit? Is it a bandit or is it? No.

It's still a total, like the neighborhood's still. Someone's living in there. Yeah. Yeah. And I say, I jump out of my car and I start taking pictures of the house. In my head, I'm like, I hope nobody comes out. I'm just like, hey, I used to live here, you know, like, I've actually had that happen a couple times. Like, I bought a house in Richmond, and then, like, we're living there for a year.

And this old man came up to the, like, knocks on the door. And he's like, he's like, this old man, like 80 years old. And he's like, who the fuck are you? He's like, no, he looked really nice. You know, like, you can just tell. He had totally kind eyes. Okay. And he's like, my wife just passed away.

And I used to live. live here with her. Can I, can I come in and, and look at this, this house? And we were like, me and my wife were like,

oh yeah, yeah, come in, please that he just like stood there and he cried and he just fucking looked around. But it was like, it was so heavy, you know, like it was really like, you know,

he just wanted to soak in whatever, the house and all over the memory. You know, there's kids there and like, you know, it was really, it was really like touching moment. And,

you know, obviously I wasn't going to do that. I kind of wanted to, to go like knock on the door but I was just like I just couldn't bring myself to do it like I was like I don't know like just whatever anyway I had a pretty uh that neighborhood I had a pretty heavy you know I was sexually abused when I was living in that neighborhood when I was five years old by a neighbor down the street and you know it was it was crazy because I drove away from my house and drove past the house that it happened at and I passed the house.

Like I just drove past the house and I didn't even realize that like and I thought I thought I was like in my mind freaking out like oh I'm gonna fucking have this freak out when I pass this house because it's gonna bring up all this shit and I didn't it's like I didn't I didn't feel anything like I didn't you know and uh

it was it was crazy because in some ways it was really like it made me feel like great. You know, like I was like, you know, I'm 57 years old. Like,

this isn't some trauma that I'm carrying me that's affecting me anymore. This was a lifetime ago. You know, this is when I was a little, little kid. And,

you know, it was, it felt just, it was like, that doesn't, that doesn't have power over me anymore. And that was like,

what I took away from it. I was like, this moment doesn't have power over me anymore. And it felt liberating in a way because that moment had had a,

a lot of power over me for a really, really long time. Yeah, especially when when you're five and trying to fucking process it, you know. Yeah. And so, you know, to me, you know, you brought up the, you brought up the train tracks. So, you know, this, this incident begins at the train tracks with this older kid who's hanging around with younger kids. And, you know, so, you know, after the incident happens, you know all as I and and the train went by the train was going by like when you know just

it's so you know just kind of triggers this and I live you know I live half a block away from fucking train tracks so like you know you always hearing the train tracks yeah you know and I it's right next to the bart station which is the subway so you're always here in the bart you're always here in the subway just you know certainly like after this trauma happens like that sound would just trigger me like it would just trigger you know I hated that sound I'd never wanted to hear it it would make me fucking cry and you know so And now it's like it's the past, you know what I mean? Like I'm not there anymore and that sound doesn't have that effect on me either.

But for probably up until the Burning Red, that is really like, it's, you know, this, you know, this moment, you know, haunts me all the time. and so a lot of the burning red is me processing in real time like all of this shit that that I had kind of buried you know like human beings have an amazing ability to black shit out you know to black shit out and it's a good thing like you know for a long time like I blocked that shit out man like I'd never thought about it and I didn't want to think about it. And for whatever reason at this period in my life, as I'm writing this record and recording this record, like, this is all coming up.

So, you know, so I wrote a song about it. And that song, five, is about that moment. And that's when I say, like, I don't, like, I can't listen to that record because the whole record just... The whole thing is just that... It just is that. And it's not that I don't appreciate it. Like, I think it's great songs and I think it's great.

music but like I just don't want to go back there like I don't want to think about it and you know I I don't know if I've ever I don't think I've ever told this story because nobody really you know a lot a lot of people don't ask about this record anymore you know what I mean like you're you're interested in it because you're into this type of music but like a lot of people ask about the other albums yes you know like that song was you know I knew I had to write that that that that song and then the burning red was kind of like the second part of it because you know when I got into my teenage years like I tried to commit suicide just I took acid one night and started thinking about all the fucking shit that happened to me when I was a kid

and oh it took you there I took it writ dude it was like a super bad that's first of all I decided to watch the omen too which sorry it was like god devil Satan I was like omen too it was yeah that one me and my friend you start watching that one and I was just like Jesus it was just like way too much for me and I started having like a super bad trip I'm on this really I had just come from a wrestling match me and my friend went to go see fucking wrestling at the Oakland arena we had went and seen like rottie rowdy rottie piper oh sick seeing Coco beware Jesse the body Ventura like they're all wrestling and we're frying like a motherfucker on four way window pain acid dude we're fucking we're I mean we're bonkers and we're fucking we're

hammered like we took barth there we drove his car to the barth station took Bart to the arena and then like, you know, he's like, start screaming like, he starts screaming a bunch of out of hand shit and like everybody still wants to kick our ass. And so we end up leaving. We go back and we like, it starts pouring rain and my friend has this giant like crack. He's got a giant crack in his windshield. And he's like, I can't drive. You've got to drive Rob like and I'm just like, I can't drive. I'm fucking frying on with fucking asset out of my brain. He's like, I can't. So it's pouring rain and I'm trying to drive out of the Bart station and it's fucking like poor. I can't

See, I get lost in the bar station for like 20 minutes. Like, I can't even get out of the parking lot. I'm so fucking whacked out. And then we sit there and we go back and then we're frying and we watch a couple of funny movies. But then he like, let's watch the Omen 2. And I was like, okay, this sounds killer. But then like, I'm just like, you know, I'm like at this point.

I've been kicked out of my house. Like my, like 17. Like I'm fucking living like on friends' couches. Like my dad kicked me out. Like I'm fucking like, I'm just kind of like I'm fucking up. Like I'm a fuck up at this point, right? Yeah. Just a fucking mess.

and so yeah it was bad it was all bad and so you know like i'm i'm going in and i'm kind of like that song was about kind of that moment the burning red was about that you know that you know that you know wanting to commit suicide moment over all this shit that i had been burying and so you know i go into you know going back to ross and his psychological warfare that there is recording an album And, you know, I'm telling them that I, you know, I'm like, I want to, like, I need to, I need to sing about this. Like, I need to sing a song. And like, I need to just get this out of me, you know, and I, I want to get, I want to get rid of it, you know. And I don't, not to say that just by writing a song, it makes it go away. Sure.

But I need this, like, I need to get this out of me. And it's process it. And the first couple times I try and do it. Like I just can't like I can't write about it like I can't I can't even get through the song and I stop like I just stop recording the song and so This is kind of a long story and I'm you know it might be kind of boring but like no let's go who cares dude Okay I'm in all right so so so so then I'm like I'm reading I'm going crazy like Charles Buchowski poetry right like I'm reading like all these Charles Bukowski stuff and I just seen barfly I'm I'm obsessively watching the movie Barfly. Mickey Roark and like, you know, it's all about like getting as fucked up as possible and then writing lyrics or writing a story or writing a book or writing what.

Yeah, there's Barfly right there. Fucking best. Mickey Roark is a goddamn stud and that such a grimy movie. Like it's just so good. Anyway, we sit there and, you know, his whole trip was about like getting fucked up and then writing. Yes. And that's how like that in his mind that's the where you get your best stuff. And I'm like, okay.

I'll try it. I was like, I can't like I can't connect with this song and I really need to get it out. So I'm going to try and write this song about this fucking horrible trauma in my life while I'm all fucked up. So I'm like, I'm going to do a bunch of Coke and I'm going to get fucked up. And then I'm going to go like I make this plan, right? Like I tell my wife and everything. Like I'm just like I'm going to go. Like this is what I'm going to do.

I'm going to go do like a gram of Coke. I'm going to go get shit face drunk. Then I write all these lyrics. I'm going to stay in a hotel room. So I'm not by you. and like driving you crazy. Oh my goodness. She's just like,

this is a bad idea. And I was just like, no, it's a great idea. And I, yeah, there it is. It's like,

you did that last week. Yeah. Right. This is, this is the best. It's a fucking, a good movie. It's a fucking such a gnarly movie.

Sick. And, uh, anyway, so I'm like, I go, I go, I set up somebody.

I'm going to, I'm going to buy a gram of Coke at this bar that I'm hanging out at all the time, called The Hut and I got you know hanging out this this girl you I used to date like she's the bartender and so I'm going to go hang out I'm just going there like you know she always give me free drinks stuff so fun good vibe and going there and this in this guy never shows up and so another so I'm hanging out and I'm like kind of bummed I'm like fuck I've already paid for the hotel room was like well I just I guess I'll just get really drunk and then write these lyrics right at the

end of the night this other buddy of mine and I'm not going to name any name but the other buddy of mine came and he shows up and he's like I got a bunch of speed and I was like and I used to be I used to be really addicted to like in my early 20s I was really addicted to like in 18s early 20s I was super so I tried I've been trying to be not do speed because it really had like a big power over me for a while and I was like well I'm kind of hammered now and I'm just like I'm trying to do Charles Brickowski so I guess I'll do a bunch of speeds so he's like let's go back to my house good a bunch of beer we'll do a bunch of speed we'll be killer he's he's fucking talking he's like we go back and he's fucking like this dude's like so

fucking intense and he's insane this dude's insane like he's one of the most crazy craziest friends I ever had in my fucking life like fucking wired like fighting all the time like when I was fighting he was like my partner in fighting yeah and uh he's sitting there he just got married right he just got married he married he's like 30 and he just married a 21 year old chick and he's like yeah and he's like telling me how great being married is and all this stuff He starts telling me about how sister's really cute and like all this stuff. And I was like, okay, cool. And then he's just like, yeah.

And then, you know, the sister's, she's really cute, man. And I was just like, yeah, cool. You know, it's just like, Rob, I'm telling you she's really, really. And I'm just like, oh, my God. He's just like, I couldn't help it, Rob. And I was like, what? It's like, I couldn't help it. She was all over me.

Like, and I was just like, oh, my God. And I'm fucking sitting there. He's like, and I've done now, I've done like a quarter of speed. I'm fucking wired high to Jesus. And I'm just like, I got to go write lyrics. I gotta go write lyrics. I was like, I gotta get out of here, man. So I go, I'm like, I'm gonna go.

The whole point of this was like, I'm gonna go right there. So I leave and I go back and I get back to the hotel. And I'm like, I'm trying to start trying to write lyrics. And I'm like kind of hitting like a roadblock. And I, it's total sidebar. I had just gotten my nipples pierced. Oh, God. Okay.

Okay. A quick sidebar. A quick sidebar. Okay, got it. A little quick sidebar. My nipples pierced. This is like late 90s like piercings and fucking spike this is like you know blonde rob and like fucking yeah And so I'm sitting there and one of my right nipple had got really infected

Of course you did In the last week, right? I'm talking like like it's fucking a giant Pustule about like that big like a giant green glob of pus is Perpetually leaking out of my right nipple like at this time and I'm trying to do yeah there you go and I'm trying to do yeah, there you go and I'm trying to do I'm trying to do my nipples my nipples this might have been before the nipple this might have no this was after the nipples this is after the record's done and so and I'm so like you know you when you're on speed you start tweaking right like and I'm just like oh my god what's going on this fucking nipple so have you ever had your nipples pierce? I've never having a nipples pierce.

Okay have you you you've had something pierced though right yeah so you know like it you try and like yeah you try and like soak it with stuff like some salt and hot water so when you get your Nipples pierce, you're supposed to take two cups of water and like hold it with Epsom salt and hold it over your nipples. And that's the way it heals, right? Like nobody tells you this when you get your fucking nipple stud. But like when you start doing it, so I'm sitting there. I was like, I know what I got to do. I got to fucking put the cups over my nipples and like, because it's now, it's really starting to hurt.

It's fucking gross. It smells. Like it's just fucking green shit coming out of my nipple. And I'm like, oh, my fucking God. And I'm like, fucking I'm wired so fucking high. I did so much speed at this dude's house. And so I'm sitting there. I was like, I got to take this thing out.

And so I like, I unscrew. It's like a barbell, right? So you unscrew the one side and then it pops out. And then the one side, like, there's, it's so like tight around. My nipple is so, like, infected that as soon as I take that barball out, the other side just shoots out. And it goes into the sink and it goes. Oh, no. And I'm like, oh, and I try and grab it.

And it goes down the sink. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, fuck. And now I'm like, now I've just got this. it's leaking fucking nipple. I'm like, I go back and I'm like, okay, just try and write some fuck. Push through the pain. I'm like, push through the fucking pain.

So then I just start punching my nipple. And I'm fucking like trying to write lyrics and I'm fucking high on speed and I'm drunk. And I'm trying to write lyrics. And everything that I come up with just sounds so fucking stupid. Then then like, I'm like, all right. Like, I'm trying to jerk off and go to sleep. I try and jerk off. Like, I'm so fucking wired.

I can't. And I finally like, I finally, it's like now it's like 7 a.m. And I'm like, I just call up Geneva. I'm just like, Jennifer, like, come and pick me up. This is,

this is a bad idea. Like, so she comes, she picks me up like, yeah, like, okay, dude, like, whatever.

And so, total failure at, like, tapping into whatever this is, this moment in my lyrics, trying to write these lyrics. And so after this, I get sober.

I was like, I got to get sober. Like, I've been partying so fucking hard writing this record and doing blow. And now I'm doing fucking speed. And I'm trying, like,

kind of going down like this i'm a bit of a mess and uh i'm kind of constantly hung over and like granted it got some great vocal performances on the record because i was just like constant like cigarette you know vodka throat you know rasp and uh you know i actually the next morning after that crazy speed night i wake up and i read all my lyrics and i'm like oh my god like it's just the most childish fucking is it dumb ass shit and i'm just like hashtag fail like total fucking fail and so then I'm like I'm going to straighten out and you know really try and just you know dig dig just sift through the bile and the fucking open up that scar and just fucking sift through it and I did and I I wrote the lyrics and when I

went back to indigo I wrote the lyrics there and uh I went into the vocal booth to sing it, and I just took off all my clothes. And I got completely naked. I've never told this story. And I got completely naked, and I just turned out all the fucking lights in the thing. And I just said, press play. And I said, I probably got about three in me here that I can sing, like three times. And I did it.

I did it three times. And then in the last time, I just like, I completely just, broke down like just crying and screaming like just screaming like primal scream therapy and i just when i was done i just curled up on the floor in a ball and i laid there for like two hours and just cried and just like i was like i was dead like i just stared at the fucking wall for two hours and Adam, my bass player at the time, came in and he sat next to me. I kind of sat behind me. Just laid there. And I just laid there for then. And I got up and I went and there was a, there was a bench outside and there was a bench that was like, there was like an avocado tree field

like in the front area of the studio. And there was just a bench. And I just went and I sat on that bench and like looked out at the ocean for like another two hours. And it was nighttime and fucking cold. And I just didn't care. I just did it. And when I came, back in the song the burning red wasn't written at that point and I just picked up a guitar and I sat in the living room and it was really late by that time like everybody had gone to bed and I and I just wrote the song the burning red and I wrote the whole like all the chords and the music and I started like fucking around with the melody and and the next day I sang the burning red wow thank you for sharing that Rob appreciate that man that's cool yeah it says as as fans we just don't

know all we hear is like this like record you know I was like oh there has to be some kind of backstory there something you know thank thank you Rob it's awesome man welcome what uh so you had to uh just just just to close close that one off so you had to temporarily get sober to kind of so you're trying to access it with with the with the drugs but actually what helped you go in there was actually cutting everything out yeah okay absolutely it can know some people struggle like I'm not gonna what do I do I access that you know and I guess you were like okay maybe I'll do speed I don't get fucking blacked out drunk but actually just it's just what getting sober and it's kind of sitting with it just just having a clear head just having a clear head and you know

and then once I was done I was like that's you know I thought about playing the song I was like I don't I'm not going to be able to do this and I don't want to like I don't want this I don't want to do this on stay like i never want to cry on stage you know what i mean yeah i don't want to fucking nobody wants that you know what i mean i would i would love to see that yeah you know who is really stoked was probably ross he loves that rob rob's naked and he's crying he was heavy it was heavy and he was like really you know he was really good at that you know that time it was very you know you know it could have gone like if there was a different producer there i think that record would would have gone a totally different way.

And I certainly don't think a song like The Burning Rit. Like I was terrified to put that song out. Like there was a good time, a good week after it was recorded where I was just like, we shouldn't put the song. This is just super like everybody's going to think we're gay. You know what I mean? Like that's what I mean? Like that was with the conversation we were having.

You know what I mean? Like it's too soft. And it's too soft, but actually it's the, it's the heaviest. Yeah. It's the heaviest of the heavy. It's kind of interesting that you're at that point and kind of started when you know, like, I didn't know that you could,

so your dad rented you a guitar for three months, right? Yeah, there we go. There's a From the Day video. That's sick, dude. Yeah. That's Tommy Vexed in the video. Is it? From the band Bad Wolves. He's a, I don't know if they're going to show him right now,

but like he's in there. Where'd you find that jacket? That's a ruse jacket That's a ruse It's a racing jacket Like for like not it's not NASCAR But it's like you know like a Like a NASCAR jacket

And he gave it to me And then you know who directed this video I think Tommy's the guy in the gold mask I think I could be wrong I'm not sure He might just be in there But the director of this video Is Michael

Michael Martin He did like all the master pee videos he did like bone thugs and harmonies videos like but he did the crossroads at the crossroads you know the bone thugs and harmony song yeah so he was like a big rap video guy and uh the label the label really wanted him to do the video like they really really wanted it and we didn't want them because we were just like this is like like we didn't really like those videos you know what I mean we were just like this is kind of corny like we want something street but they're like this is street he's doing all the

the most street stuff there is and we were just like but it's not like but you know the thing is he had like uh you know like you got to remember in in 1999 like MTV was fucking all powerful you know like if you got everything if you got a video on MTV like it was the difference between like it you could send your band into the fucking stratosphere like even just one song you know yeah and this is the era of like where every band is coming out and selling like 10 million records you know what I mean yeah every fucking band on the planet is like it's just you know when one band sells five million then the next band sells seven million the next band sells nine million then 10 million then 12 million it was like it was crazy so it was like get you know we got

to get this guy and he's gonna do this and like you know it was really like you know he's a good he was a good director you know he actually made some some cool videos but you know it was like you know the hair and you know everybody makes fun of me like i'm a meme you know because of this because of this video I'm dressed like a box of orange juice and I've got like ridiculous like Liberty Spikes like like punk rock Liberty Spikes like that was the time though that was the time and I'm kind of like doing that you know like this is like he's just like you got to do more like do more with the hands and fucking you got like you're not doing anything I was like I don't want to do anything I was like I'm the I like I play guitar you know like show me a Pierce Nipple yeah at this point I've

gotten rid of my voice my hair simple because it got so fucking infected so that Then I've just got one and then I've just got this like now I've just got like you my nipple is still fucked up from it like it's just a mutant nipple now it's just all fucked up that there's no more pus just so you know there's no more pus but yeah but it was like it was good shit yeah he did an NWA thing I mean that's kind of what sold me because I was such a big hip-hop fan like when I saw that he did the NWA thing I was like okay like that's it because I fucking loved NWA you know so but uh but you know like that record to me like when you take that video out of the you know when you take the imagery when you take the

whatever like to me that record really it really does stand the test of time it's got some great songs and you know i you know i don't know if i mentioned this but but so from this day is also kind of about that song in about that moment in my life really way so i told you i I told you I just went and visited my old neighborhood. So when I last visited it, it was during the writing of that record. Oh, you know. And I kind of went back to like confront it, I guess, you know. And obviously this is like I'm now 29 years old or whatever.

And, you know, I'm going back there to kind of just face this moment that has caused a lot of like shit in my life. And, uh, and I sat in front of the house where it happened. you know and he I mean they weren't there anymore you know it was just like somebody else lived there now and I didn't feel anything and so then I went over to the the train tracks where it all kind of started

and and I didn't feel and I just kind of sat there like trying to feel anything and I felt nothing like I thought I was going to cry like I wanted to cry like I tried to cry and I couldn't fucking cry and I was just like what the fuck like and then I just went and I was living in Berkeley at the time and I went back to my house in Berkeley and and then I just started writing the lyrics and I and I started it off like a I started it off like a what is it like a what's it called like for um to whom it may concern like that was the first thing I wrote like just kind of like I was writing it to myself or writing it to whoever and and I just started writing those lyrics you know for all the verses and for all the chorus and for all the chorus and and like that song just like poured out of me.

And the music at the time wasn't written. This was just like a poem that I wrote after, you know, trying to face this moment. And so then I kind of reverse engineered a song around that idea. And I changed it a little bit like as I went because it was more like kind of this kind of uplift, not uplifting, but like this kind of like get through it song. You know, it wasn't about that moment. It was about getting through a tough moment in your life.

It's about surviving a tough moment in your life and fighting through it and pushing through it and, you know, conquering it. And that's what that song became about. It's sick, man. Jay, go back to the covers. Go to Supercharger. What memories for you come up when you see this? This is a, well, so the artwork is by Paul Brown. The whole package was by this guy named Paul Brown, who became a longtime collaborator.

mind amazing super killer video photographer like like a kind of a genius really like he's so talented and I really love this guy totally hit it off he was an awesome dude and um yeah it was we had kind of played around with a few different things he really wanted to have a girl on the cover okay and so the first couple of versions of this were kind of like a like a hot chick with like you know chrome eye all you know chrome eyes and and and I was like the same color like the same color kind of sepia scheme with like lightning and whatever and I was like I don't know what this has to do with supercharger like it's just it's a it's a hot chick but I don't know what it's got to do with with supercharger and so I was like you know what why don't we just you know I showed him the logo

I was like hey I you know this is my logo that I drew on my wife's refrigerator like in 1990 and You know, it's been our logo ever since. So like, why don't you try making that in that same style? And he came up with that. And it was like, I was like, holy shit, that's fucking sick. Do you have a pleasant memory of the songs? Some of them. Yeah, for sure.

This was kind of like. Like bulldozer. Yeah, for sure. Bulldozer, supercharger. You know, we went back to Indigo Ranch, but we didn't go with Ross. Why did you go back to Indigo? Because I remember I was kind of shocked when I saw it. They went back to end go why.

Yeah. I don't know. I hate it there. We had a big falling out with Ross after the burning red came out. And so he, you know, we weren't going to work with him again. And so it was produced by Johnny Kay. And Johnny Kay had just done the first disturbed record. Yeah.

And he was pretty hot. And, you know, again, the label wanted him. Yeah, that's Johnny Kay. He was tall as fuck, like six foot eight. Like, this motherfucker was gigantic. Like, he was like lurch. And, uh, like, you know. a great guy but just great guy but not the guy for us and you know he it just it was a very it was a

tough record to record kind of a tough record to write we were having a lot of problems like internally as a band and you know like a lot of money arguments about money and Dave quit Dave quit for a while during the burning red and Adam quit for a minute and you know Roo was about to quit and and uh you know we were just having like a lot of issues and then we kind of got through it and we wrote this new record and you know some there's some killer songs on there like I really do think like bulldozer I mean bulldozer is like a fuck it we play bulldozer and motherfucker like lose their mind like it's a all-time machine head classic now yeah you know crushing around you you know but there's some stinkers on here you know I could you know like people often look at this record as like kind of a dud for machine head

and yeah and I can see why like it's it's it's got some bangers but it's you know it's it's it's it's hit and miss yeah I was kind of curious what weird thoughts first off thank Thank you for going in so in depth of that record. Now, you know, I'm sorry if this podcast is kind of, to people listening and watching, kind of selfish. I just really wanted to know more about that particular record. You know, because I haven't really heard many stories. But I think what's most fascinating to me about your band rob is I was kind of curious

where you guys were here because it seemed kind of people that kind of like wrote you off. It seemed like it's like during this time, peers. I was kind of curious what happened. and then uh because because when people like doubt you they like they'll just erase your entire past they're like everything you're done they'll just like oh no they're they're fucking done you know so so i was kind of curious uh so it's kind of fascinating where your your your your mind goes you know to like kind of come back from that so i was kind of curious what um so this record is out is done okay uh it's your stinker right and then so what i was flying

I mean, we're, so the record comes out Three weeks after 9-11 yes, yeah, and we make a video for the song crashing around you Crashing around you's gonna be the single and we make a video for crashing around you and the original version This isn't the original version this is a we had to redo it because the original version had had us Standing on top of buildings that were crashing down And we've got like all this CGI of like literal like you know like we're on the fucking world trade center like basically And buildings are crashing around all around us and it's a sick video it's fucking killer it's so badass like it's awesome and we're juice we're like oh my god this is gonna be a sick ass video and like and then you know that fucking 9-11 happens and you know they basically any song on the radio on the video like any that even references crashing or this you know like like like you remember you

remember let the bodies hit the floor like if they yank that they like everything you know even frank sinatra songs are getting yanked off the radio and like it's our our shit's like it couldn't have be more dead in the water and we've got a tour starting six days after 9-11 so we go out and we're just like we're terrified to even fly you know we think that like you know of course and you know at this point like they're gonna bomb everywhere like they got new york we're going to you know the tour starts and far going to North Dakota like they're gonna get Fargo North Dakota like why would they get Fargo North Dakota? No, they're not but like in your mind you're just like you know you think everybody's

gonna get you so you know we go out there and you know the shows at first are just like they're weird you know like people like everybody up front in the front row is just like why am I here like really tell me it's going to be okay and and then and I'm like I need you to tell me it's going to be okay because I don't know don't look to me like I'm not they don't put me up on a pedestal like I'm just as fucked up and lost and confused about all of this shit as you are

and how long how long did that last that tour was five weeks and by the by the end of the first week it was kind of like oh oh I know why we're why we're out here now like I know why we're doing this like all these people that are coming here we're all trying to get through this fucking insane moment and we don't know what's going on and we don't know what's going to happen and it's like

music is what's going to pull us all through this yeah and the shows become these this massive release like it's just the super intense shows where the crowds just like they're just getting out all their pain and their confusion and their rage and and you know we go all you know go into like new york area and you know the shows are really intense there and it you know like we then went over to europe too because every band canceled their tours in europe like our tour we had a tour starting in november and every band system vodown pantera you name it everybody canceled their tours scared because of terrorism and terror attacks and and so we were like fuck it you know we had just toured six days after nine a let we're like we're

fucking going over there. We're not going to, you know, our fans, we need this, I need this, they need this. They need this. We need to do this for them. And we went over there and we were literally the only band on tour over at the time and the shows were insane. Like it was just amazing and, you know, it really, you know, you hear people talk about the power of music and it's almost a cliche to say it now. Yeah. But I can tell you. You, you know, you hear people talk about the power of music. And it's, it's I can tell you in those moments, in those handful of months, right after 9-11, playing those songs. And I started working in, we started an intro at the beginning for the live version

of crashing around you, where I just started talking about life. And I started talking about 9-11. And I started talking about what we all saw and we all, this shared experience that we all just lived through not even a month or two ago. And it was so crazy to watch people, like, just, you know, like, people would come up to the show, like, fucking thank you. Like, thank you so much for fucking saved me in this moment. Like, I needed to hear that so much. And, you know, that's what, again, like, to me, that's the reason, you know, that's the reason I do this.

That's the reason that I continue to do this because, you know, I need to feel that. You know, I need to fill that, too. not from my band like from other bands you know what i mean like i was that same person in that crowd in that circle pit up front at those shows looking at that band we're all having them sing me those songs that fucking saved me totally man uh unfortunately uh that was kind of like the last time where everyone kind of remembered what they were doing at that moment huh right everyone everyone has has their own story yeah is that is that is that the last moment like like that I can't remember it was anything after 9-11 where everyone kind of knows where they were

united yeah no yeah I was uh I mean you know like I got arrested I was seeing my probation officer so I was out of school and then yeah walking to the police station I was like looking at at the TVs right yeah yeah no you remember that that's what you remember yeah yeah yeah I went to some house to a friend's house and I trashed it and I got arrested it yeah it was sick, dude. So you had to go meet with your probation officer? Yeah, yeah, 13. That's awesome. 13, you got to get arrested once.

Yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. I think when, I think the younger, it's like chicken pox. Is it just, get it out of the way when you're young and then learn your lesson and then move on. Oh, yeah. That really is. Oh, yeah. I've been arrested like probably 11 or 12 times.

Oh, yeah. Oh, you're a fucking other level, dude. I'm getting no more arresting chicken pox, hopefully, you know, fingers crossed. No, no, good, man. I mean, yeah, you're getting into a fucking three fights a week, man. Not getting arrested, luckily, you know. I know. Yeah.

We can probably run, right? You're running away? Yeah. I didn't want to get caught by the cops. Fuck that, you know. Being arrested sucks, man. You're fucking terrified. You think the world's going to...

It is. It is terrifying. It's scary, you know. It's scary getting pulled over for a fucking, you know, speeding ticket. True. It's all shit. Like, even like, when you get put over, even when you know you're fine, Like, why, why am I scared?

Yeah, I'm fine. Literally, like, unless someone plants drugs in my car, I'm fucked, but everything's fine. Yeah. Just be cool to the cop, especially all these videos right now going viral, like, people are like just testing, like, poking the cops. It's like, fuck, the job party sucks ass. Just be fucking cool with them? I had a couple of cops that weren't cool, though. Really?

Yeah. What happened? It wasn't driving, though. Like, I got arrested on New Year's Eve, although, I guess now I think about it, I was kind of, I was pissing in a doorway. Okay. I thought I was doing nothing. I was like, oh, no, you were doing,

I was doing something. I was pissing in a doorway on Broadway in San Francisco. So like, you know, like the main drag of like the New Year's Eve party. Oh, you forgot the part that you were being asshole.

Yeah. I mean, I was just pissing in a doorway, for God's sake. It's not that big of a deal. Like, it's fucking, dude, if you saw Broadway at this particular,

this is like, this is like we're all the fucking prostitutes and the strip clubs and fucking, You know, it's like, me pissing in the doorway was the least of anybody's problems. Dude, I'm terrified of a peeing in public. I had an incident happened to me a couple months ago. I was peeing in the parking lot. My girlfriend was driving me.

And I was like, you know, sometimes you just got to go and you're older. It's like, I can't hold it. I'm peeing right now. She's like, okay, we'll go in between the cars. You look around. There's no one around. Okay. Rob, I kid you not.

but when I'm done peeing this couple came out of nowhere. The one the one couple in a parking lot was the car that I was next next to you. Because you're peeing in between cars and that's God or faith like and

I know but it's just taking a piss you know it's not like that. She well she had her her drunk boyfriend or husband. Oh geez. Yeah so so he makes a big stink probably Luckily, my girlfriend was sane in the moment Sometimes you're just not there

And in that moment, I was weak I didn't have a fucking mental speed She's like, get in the car and we're gonna leave And sure enough, when we were pointing out I just- I mean, you weren't pissing on their car No right? Yeah, you're just pissing on the street Between the two cars But what the girl said is he's peeing on her car

So right out of the gates, I was wrong I was wrong, but she lied I was wrong, she lied my girlfriend said get in the car we're leaving and sure enough she was right we were pointing out and the guy was your cliche probably

late 20s really tall white bro shaved head and football jersey on it was during like it was Sunday so all the football games were going on okay he was some drunk dude and he was this was not their first rodeo so it was like that was the last time I almost so yeah I'm like I'm terrified of peeing in public now

39 right 39 now I won't pee in public anymore yeah you know Fuck it, dude. Okay, so anyway, enough of my selfish stories. So what, no, no, it's fine. What, uh, that's what I love about podcasts, you know, like, they can be a conversation. Yeah, go back. I do, I do enjoy that part of it.

Yeah. Well, people, especially what I don't think people really realize is that with, with artists, artists and people in bands, they, they, they tend to need longer time to, to process thoughts. I noticed. So like that's why I'll be quiet for a period of time when someone's done talking because I know for me if I'm done talking I'm not really done talking It's it's it's something that I noticed with people in in bands, but I tried to explain that to like Like and like to the public, but I think it's it's like I just know I know how a musician's brain is kind of chain linking So I kind of give them like give them the space so it happens to me all the time. I'll be like I'll be on the verge of like oh being up and then someone will say something

And then that stops my chain link process. And I close back up. You mean when you're doing an interview? It's happened during a podcast, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I make sure that I'm not doing that to somebody else. I got to say that's, you know, I had a podcast for a while.

I don't do it anymore. But it was mostly on Zoom. Like I never had like your kind of next level. Like the mind was just always on Zoom. But it was over the pandemic. Yeah. So, you know, but that, I got to say that was a really good. it was, I don't want to say that with a lesson,

but it was a great experience to just be quiet and let somebody talk, you know, get somebody talking about themselves and then not interject with your story or your version of, you know, the same thing that happened to you or whatever, but just let them like tell their thing and then just keep them, you know, it's not the way that, it's the way that people should converse, but sometimes in society now, you know, they don't. dude i would rob i so so you got to experience that with your podcast yeah just there's that's my

personal secret weapon it's just shut up shut up and listen right you know but that's how conversation should go it's like one one person talks you're not thinking about what you're going to say next your your brain and it's a it's a fucking muscle dude you got to continually work out that muscle dude like your brain wants to come up with what we're gonna say this you have to say this but like chris shut the fuck up dude but oh this is how humans should communicate you the they say something you're not you're not going to say you're not going to say you're not going to okay that's what that's what they said okay then then then then i process it and okay this is what hopefully this is what they met and then this is

this is my this is my response right that should be that's normal human communication but it's pretty rare when you find I think that's why family and close friends are super important because you can tell when you're talking they're actually listening to you Yeah, they are, oh, this is my fucking best friend or something like you, you, you could tell you're talking. They're not like your parents to like some parents like parents because they come from a slower age. Sure. They're less inclined to jump in and kind of, you know, whereas like younger people when you're talking to them. Yeah.

Yeah, I love, I love listening. Man's cool. I've learned a lot, you know, you know, this is, I'm going to lie here. Each person's kind of like like a book and they'll. you'll get one golden nugget from my from each one you know one one or two and now and now now you have that in your back pocket you know could be uh you know it could be unrelated to music it could be personal it could be music it'd be about recording it could be something that that that you're going through it's fucking fascinating dude it's fucking nuts dude anyway um i don't want to take

the time talking about me uh so you uh so another selfish question actually is uh i was curious where you were personally is when again when you're riding uh through the through the ashes because i remember being younger rob and uh watching like these videos of you and like dave like trying to like sell the band i was like i was like damn like you how you could just get to a level and then almost kind of lose it like something happens to you like mentally like it's like man How do you like that? Just watching those videos like I remember like seeing Dave had like this like drum machine. Hey, this is what this is what we're doing?

I was like, damn, they're fucking going through it man. Yeah, what was, uh, what was that experience like for you? Like what were you guys communicating like, hey, we don't got a label anymore. Hey, we should take a break or hey, we should. This is the time actually the right. Like probably our sickest record. Like how, how did you guys process that time? I mean, first of all.

So supercharger, the cycle kind of ends. We, you know, contrary to popular myth out there, we actually negotiated off Roadrunner. We weren't dropped. Okay. Like we negotiated, we went, flew out there and negotiated, hey, you know, like this isn't working out. We didn't, it didn't live up to your stuff. Like, you know, we don't want to sue you, but you got to let us go. Got it.

And so they, they did. And they let us go. And they kind of like, you know, it was a clean, fair break. And at the time. time we had a shit ton of labels. I mean, you know, I mean, you live in LA, so you know probably what it's like better than anybody. Like, everybody here blows smoke up your ass. Like, oh my God, your band should be so much bigger. If you were with me, I would make you a millionaire and you're a star and a blah,

blah, blah. So, you know, we, uh, I call it bullshit. Yeah. My, uh, my, my, it's total bullshit. My fucking, my bullshit meter, dude, it says it rings off constantly like, like, like, around here. Yeah. So it's great. Like, keep the, keep, keep the circle. you know, tight. But, you know, somewhere during the burning red, you know, we, you know, we kind of got sucked up in like the whole music industry thing, you know, like, it's like we're doing this video with this guy that we don't want to do a video with. We end up firing our manager, my longtime manager that I've had since, violence and, you know,

get him, eventually, you know, time passes, but, you know, that all happens. We get with a high-powered management company, doesn't work out. We bring Joey, Joseph, our manager, our back. the same manager from my early days. And he's actually still my manager now. Been my manager for 38 years. 38 years, man. Except for the, you know, the little period where I fired him.

But, but. At a boy. But he, uh, so, you know, we come back and we've negotiated out the label. And, and we had about probably seven labels that were courting us during this period when we were still signed, right? Like if you signed with us, like fucking blah, blah, blah, you know, take you to the next level, this, that the other thing, whatever. you know all the shit that they say yep and uh you know we get we get unsigned and we're like

hey like here we are we're free agents now like we're ready to go like deals done we're out we're clear and they're like slow down like you know pump the brakes we got to we got to you know we got to hear some music and we got to make sure that you know this is the right fit for the label and this and we're like well you know like we've got four albums out we're like well that's the problem you've got four albums out and And I was like, what is that? Yeah, what does that mean? And they're like, well, you know, you're proven.

I'm like, and what does that mean? They're like, well, if you have never had any albums out, you're unproven. So the sky's the limit or it's a failure. But we already know like what you've sold. And I'm like, we've sold two and a half million records. Like, you know, by this point, we've sold a lot of fucking records. And, you know, granted, at this point, you know, this is crazy to think about. But, you know, this is 2002.

So, you know, we've already had kid rock dude gold diamond. We've already had Lincoln Park go diamond. We've already had Limp Viscuit 7 million. I mean, a million, fucking millions and millions of records. And, you know, you've only sold two million records over four albums. And we're like, I don't, I mean, like, this is wild. Like, I, you know, it's a respectable amount of records. And, you know, like, you shouldn't be looking at this like it's a negative. Like, it's a negative. Like, you know, like, you shouldn't be looking at this like it's a negative. like well you didn't sell 10 million I'm like but who has you know they're like well kid rock and I'm like listen like yeah I don't know what to tell you here but like you know so you know at this point you know a Roo we're having problems with the Roo a Roo really wants to take the band in a more commercial direction and and I'm just like I'm just like I don't you know we'd already kind of gone through that with him on the last record and I was like I look I want to just be machine head a machine head is got thrash we've got some hardcore we've got some hip hop we've got some got some got some whatever you know and that's what i

want to do and that's all i want to do it and i'm just going to try and write and i'm just going to try and write a hit or this or that like we're just going to do what we're going to do and so he's like well i'm going to quit and we're like great go you do you that's cool with us you know like so we just the three of us just kind of forge on writing and it's really just dave and i because you know it was just mainly dave and i at that point like sitting in the jam room and uh and we end up writing stuff but we we we end up getting you know we they want to hear demos and they're like we need to hear a hit and so I write a song I write one song that I'm not really into but it's called pins and needles and I'm just like whatever I think it sucks like I think the vocal performance is terrible

but it's kind of what they want and I'm like if this is the one song that it takes to get us onto the record company so that I can do what I want with 10 other songs I don't care like I'm just trying to like yeah you know the idea at that point of going you know completely independent isn't doesn't seem very realistic post 9-11 world that we're in at this particular point yeah and so you know i'm i'm i'm like broke you know like we're in a fucking lawsuit with this company and like this lawsuit drags on for years like years and years and years like i'm fucking like hemorrhaging money fighting this lawsuit. I'm, you know, now I have no label.

I, you know, me and my wife had just bought a house and now I don't have money to pay the mortgage and I'm so now I'm like taking up other jobs and I'm sitting here and I'm like, I start doing guitar tech work at a studio called Fantasy Studios, which is where we actually recorded our first album, Burn My Eyes. And like, I'm the guy who like, you come into the studio and like, hey, you need your guitar set up. Like, I'll be over here. Just like, bring me all your stuff and I'll like, you know, get it going. You're Rob Flint.

I it was I tell you what I tell you what it didn't bother me that that gig actually paid really well you know I'm working out of studio so it was like you know it's a fancy studio like so they're like hey we'll pay you good and and um but at one point my uh my friend Michelle does the dreadlocks in Anders from In Flames hair and she her studio is right next door to fantasy so this guy comes so Anders from In Flames he's on tour with Earth Crisis right now and I'm on a Marth and they're playing over at Slims he wants to get dreadlocks from this girl who's famous for doing really good dreadlocks and he comes over and then she's like oh you should go over to fantasy studios it's kind of a famous studio like right next my place

so I'm like working on a dude's guitar and like Anders from In Flames walks in and I was used to say Rob Flynn what are you doing here and I was just like I just remember being so fucking embarrassed I was just like oh yeah I just know I didn't make whatever excuse and he's like okay and I was like what are you doing here he's like oh I just got my dreadlocks done

oh wow but I just like at this point I'm like fuck man like I guess it's over like I remember thinking that at that point and you know like I got asked by the drowning pool guys to be the vocalist and I was like I was that yeah I was like and I theory you know they were like offering me a lot of money for the time and and I was like I was like you You don't want me in your band, you know what I mean? And like, I'm a take over the band kind of guy. I'm really hard to work with. I'm not.

I'm really hard to work with. But I'm going to, as long as you're okay with me taking over your band. And I was just like, you know, thank you, you know, honored that you even thought of me. But like, you know, but I'm seriously thinking these things. And, you know, like, now my wife gets pregnant. I got a kid on the way. Like, look, and now we start fucking, I can't pay the fucking. mortgage on the house and I'm like I was like it you know like me and my wife are arguing she's

like dude like it's over like you know you had a good run you fucking sold two and a half million records you put out four albums like you know like you had a good run and I was like she said I know I'm like you're right like I had a good run she's like you know like when do you give up the dream I'm like I don't know but like you know like and we're you know we're kind of arguing and like you know mostly about money because it's like all about money it's always about money it's all about money You're just like can I fucking like I can't fucking pay the goddamn it's fucking lawsuits. I'm hemorrhaging money from this lawsuit and And you know we're arguing and finally at one point I'm just like look

And I and I say this with all due respect to the FedEx guy because I love FedEx and I love Everybody in the mail industry and like you know people who work for FedEx and all that But I looked at her and I was like do you see me as the FedEx guy? She was like no I was like what do you see me as she's like you're a fucking star like no you're fucking you play music for because it's in your fucking blood it's in your fucking it's your it's your soul and I was like that's right I was like so fucking believe that I'm gonna do it she's like then go fucking do it she's like you got to fucking make it happen now

and I was like I fucking swear to you I will just fucking believe a little bit longer and I fucking did and I finished up that fucking record you know we ended up getting signed by roadrunner in Europe and so we go into record the album start through the ashes and America is still like well you know know we don't really want to sign you again because that's kind of weird and I'm like I know but you know Roadrunner Europe just signed us so like you know because there were two separate labels at that point even though it was like Roadrunner records it was two completely separate like businesses. So America, Roadrunner, America was one thing,

and Roadrunner Europe was a totally different entity, different boss, different everything. And so, you know, we just went about recording that record. And, you know, during, also during this lawsuit period and this other period, you know, we're shipping, you know, kind of going back to the thing that you brought up about Dave and us having to, like, ship these songs, we're shipping these demos off and it's got this song,

pins and needles. And, you know, we end up getting turned down by 35 labels. You got turned down. 35 labels rejected us. And the first five labels was really crushing to me. Like it

fucking crushed me. Like I was depressed and just really like, I was like, it's over. Like it's over. You know, like, and then we've got five more labels checking us out. You know, checking the demo out. Like, not checking the band out. But same thing. They turned us more turned us down more turn it by the time it got you know first I was really

depressed by the time I got to like the 15th one I was kind of annoyed by the time I got to like the 20th like rejection I was like okay man like wait a minute here like I was like really you know by the time it got to the 30th record company rejection I was just the angriest most pissed off fuck you fuck them fuck everybody everybody who doubts me, I was just a walking, like, time bomb. Like, I was so fucking, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, I'm not doing the fighting every weekend. Can't fight anymore. But I was like, I'm, I'm fighting for this band now. And, you know, we just wrote a record and we put

it out and then, you know, we finished the recording of the record. And we had been really, you know, we demoed some stuff for Roadrunner U.S. and they were all excited. And they're like, oh, we might do this. And then the last day of recording, they turned us down. And they said, we're not going to sign you. in the US and up until this point we had totally kept our cards you know close to the chest and you know nobody knew that we were unsigned you know we were just like going about our business like we were still on roadrunner and then it was like well we got to tell everybody so now i you know at this point i know it sounds crazy to say this because it's so common

now but in 2003 you know doing like videos and sticking on the internet was like unheard of right like you know talking to your fans on a message board was just like you know that's the way we kept contact with people because everybody had kind of left us. Magazines wouldn't cover us like you know promoters would you know all this stuff we still but we the promoters would book us because we drew a lot of people and we made them a lot of money and so I was like look well you know we're gonna keep on making you money because people still want to see machine head and so that was always like the feather in the cap that we had you know that was the ace up our sleeve that we always had and so you know at that point though

it was like you know I put out a post and I was like on the message board I knew it would get picked up, you know, blabbermouthed just starting. So like there was all this internet stuff. I didn't need a magazine. I didn't need a magazine. I was like, I don't need a fucking magazine anymore. This is the way I'm going to communicate with our fans via this thing called the internet, you know, via message boards, via these little videos and that we would put up that like literally would take, you know, 17 hours to upload, you know, a minute and a half long video, you know, you're watching it on a 56K mode and where it'd take like, you know, an hour to load a video for people to watch. But we did it. And that was the way that we communicated.

and the record comes out over in Europe and it fucking explodes Chris like it fucking explodes and everybody's like oh my god like it just blows up toward us amazing and then you know two months later roadrunners comes back and they're like hey like

that new record you got's really good we're like oh yeah the one that you passed on like oh is that the same record we're like oh yeah it's the same record they're like well we want to we want to put it out and so then we resign with Roadrunner and then you know like just kind of Kept on fucking keeping on, man.

Yeah, was that, was that the first record that you actually produced? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Man, just, oh, my goodness. That's a lot of pressure, too. It was. Yeah.

We just, I just, I was like, I can't pay. I mean, you know how sometimes it is. Like, those big name producers. And we had gone through a slew of big name producers. Like, Ross got paid a lot of money. We had Terry Date, mixed Burning Ray with a lot of money. You know, we had Johnny Kay for the next record. It was just so much fucking, you know, it was too much.

And I was like, I don't, like, I can do this. Like, I've learned a lot from Colin. I've learned a lot from Ross. Like, I know what this band is supposed to sound like. And, you know, I had help. I had a great engineer. Like, I can't take the credit. Like, Mark Keaton was my engineer.

Andy Sneep was finishing up a testament or an Exodus record, and he came in for the first day to just kind of help with tones and set up mics and stuff. What a blessing. Yeah, totally. So I had, you know, I had help, you know. Then it was just a matter of getting the performances out of the band and myself that would make the record. Yeah, that's one of the most fascinating times as like a fan and as an outsider about your band's office. I'm curious where you were.

Because it gets really fucked up because anyone could get there. But keeping it and then it's even worse. When you lose it to gain it back is, well, you find out who you are. you know how much how much do i love this and then then you have you're older so you have wives girlfriends bills right i didn't i didn't make this shit happen now yeah this shit needs to fucking happen dude yeah and uh and you guys did man it's fucking fascinating man no matter how uh how many knows how many knows and and what's also uh fascinating is uh your ability to compartmentalize because uh it's really easy to buckle under press you know

because because you can't force out riffs right it's being able to kind of there's like the pressure but you could actually tone it was that was that what was that what was that what you were doing you're like towing out like this this this kind of outside thing all right this is time to write with dave how do you do that I mean we were just we were just writing you know he was he brought in like a lot of my old rift tapes from the more things changed he had held on to my rift tapes. I'm pretty bad at actually holding onto my rift tapes. Like I almost never ever go back to old rift tapes.

Like I always just start fresh. Like I don't want to, I don't care what I did two years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. I just start new and I go. And that's just what my mind wants to do. And, but he brought back some rift tapes from the more things change. And we kind of took a couple

of rift from there. And, and but really it was like, you know, that record to me, you know, some people, you know, I always hear people say it was a return to form, which I don't know if I agree with that. Like, I still feel like we were just kind of moving forward. And, you know, I felt like we brought some, you know, it's still a classic machine head record, but it brought in new elements and a new vibe and it felt fresh.

And, you know, I think, you kind of brought in some stoner elements with songs like elegy. You know, I mean, Imperium. Imperium is like, you know, like Imperium was just kind of like lightning in a bottle, you know what I mean like I written like one day or something crazy well he David brought in the verse riff and we had been jamming on the verse riff for a while and then I wrote the chorus and and then we had just that little section of the song like you know like a minute and a half of the song and I was like this is cool but it's like I don't know where it's going and then I got I got the flu and I canceled practice I was like I'm so fucking I was just shot like I'm fucking

dead on my feet like I can barely even get out of bed yeah at some point I just got so sick of You know, you back starts hurting. Like after you've been laying down too long, I'm like, oh, just get up and play guitar. So I just picked up a guitar. And, and, uh, and I fucking just wrote Imperium. Like I wrote Imperium in like 30 minutes, like the whole, the whole intro. And then I was like, oh, maybe I can connect this to the one verse thing. And then I wrote the bridge and then I wrote the thrash part and then I wrote the super fast part at the end.

And then I was like, I was like, I was like, oh my God. I thought. I think this song's done. Like, and I was, you know, I'm super. super fucking sick at this point. So I'm like, maybe I'm just like so goddamn sick with the flu that I think I've done something killer and it's not. But then I woke up the next day. I was like, oh, no, this is good.

And I went in and I showed it to the guy. I was like, I think I finished. We were calling the song, but da-da-da-da. You know, you always have like dumb names for your song. Like those, but-da-da-da-da-da-da. But-da-da-da. So we called it, but-da-da. It's pretty cool.

And like, I played it for him. They're like, holy shit. This is sick. So the song, this is the week before we're going in to record. A week before? Yeah, like no lyrics. Like I've got no, I've got nothing. Like I've got like I just finished this song.

It almost doesn't end up on the record. And then a couple of days later, I had, we had been jamming on the last song on the record, which was to send the shades of night. And at this point, the song is like the most, the wackest deaf tones rip off you've ever heard. Like it's so bad. Like it's just the worst. it's the worst like it's horrible and I'm just like that it's got this one part in the middle that I love and I'm like the one part is so good

I was like we gotta do something with it's good and that's what became the bridge and a little bit of the chorus and I was like there's something here and like we're arguing like the whole band wants to like fire the song from the record they're like this song sucks we gotta fire it is this like shitty deaf tones I'm like I know it is but like it's this one part so good I'm like I'm like listen give me give me Two days, and I feel like I got this idea,

I was gonna start the record with basically the beginning, the beginning acoustic thing of Descend the Shades of Night was gonna originally be the intro to the album, right? It was gonna be a quick little intro. Yeah. And it was, you know, so I was like, give me, let me, you know, two days, when I come back, I wanna try and this idea out and maybe it works,

maybe it doesn't. But I, you know, at the time, I was like, I don't usually, talk about this because you know metal ds are always like oh my god that's so lame but like I fucking love coal play I'm a huge huge cold play fan

those first two coal play records are like desert island I get it albums for me I got it when when I got dumped oh that's why people love this fucking band dude you I went into the idea you you go into a cold play fucking you go down a cold play rabbit hole dude

it is like the best depressing music It is. You're ever going to fucking hear. I get it. I get it. And it's so like, especially those first two records are just so stark. There's something to them, man.

There's some fucking that's sad. And like, and I was like, me and my wife had been listening to Cole play nonstop. And, you know, she's pregnant. And we're constantly like playing Cole play around our kid. And it's crazy. I'm just going to go off on a sidebar here.

Please. But like, we're just listening to that because we just, you know, my wife just hang out and listen to music and like we were really viving on the cole play records at that point and uh when we have our first son zander you know we have a zander on a couple months into the ashes tour cycle and you know he's a he's a pretty uh what's the word colicky like he's got he cry he's like he has a lot of trouble sleeping he's constantly awake and he's like

crying a lot you know he's like crying a lot yeah a lot you know like a lot you know like He's like you're just like we didn't sleep for like nine fucking months straight like after he was bored like he was like it was fucking brutal like and But we'd put on that first song on the second out the other album with the white the white with the kind of guy with the beard goate or whatever Yeah, that one we'd put on the first song a rush on that record Dund dun dun dun dun and And Xander would be crying and crying and he'd hear that and go and he'd shut up. And we were like, dude, we played this song so much when he was in the womb.

Like maybe it's like triggering some like thing from hearing that, right? Like he's connecting to hearing Cole play when he was in the womb or something because it would just make him, that one song would just make him completely stop for the whole song. He would stop crying. And we were like, this is crazy. Anyway, just, you know. Put that on repeat. Yeah. Yeah.

Just loop that song. all the time loop that song dude but you know i'm kind of like viking on cole play and i was like you know maybe i can just kind of try and channel some of this into this metal song that i've got and i end up like so i throw away all the lousy deaf tones rip off stuff that we're doing and i just end up writing this like eight minute song that's like this kind of sad ballad about death and mortality and you know it kind of becomes this like moment on the record and it you know it was really it was really really really cool. This is one of my favorite songs that

we've ever done. You know, really tried to, like, channel some, like, Eagles. Tried to channel some, like, you know, this part especially. Now, I'm viving on some Hotel California shit right here. Oh, yeah. Let's take a little break.

If you're wondering how I can sit, listen, and focus for a long period of time, I think we're probably two hours in the Rob Flynn podcast. The answer is, coffee, but not just any coffee. We have the bag right here. We drink whole bean Garza podcast coffee from concept cafes.

They also work with other sick bands like Motorhead, Cannibal Corpse, Iceline Kills is a new one, and more. If you're a fan of high-quality coffee like I am, check it out. I click the link in the description below. Last one, I promise. A heads up for all our YouTube members. After going back and forth with YouTube for almost a year, we have decided to switch over to Patreon.

There's an issue with the join button, which makes it pretty inconvenient and a hassle to join. I love YouTube, but there's no signs of this being resolved. So it seems like the older channel has got like God foddered in. All good. Just want to give a heads up so the change doesn't come out of nowhere. So look out for that. And that's it. Back to our conversation with Rob Flynn.

You took classical guitar lessons when you were in high school, right? I did. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I should have, uh... He gave me a D. He gave me a D.

And I used that fuel for so long. I was like, fuck you. I'm going to show you, motherfucker. Yeah, it's fucked up, dude. Well, what's the, was your fine? I was like, what's the guy who got an A plus doing now, huh? Right. True, true, man.

Yeah. what you had for your final you had you had you had to learn a a classical piece right it did what what was your one take away from that like uh did you like kind of take something from from that class besides the hate i mean i it was it was you know honestly like i held i held onto that anger because i was a young dumb fucking idiot but like it was such a good experience like it really was amazing to have a music class you know because i was so wind of music and I was so into guitar at that point. Classical guitar

in high school, man, yeah, dude. Like, it was fucking cool. My, my final, yeah, my final. There's your D. My final was... D minus. Yeah. The song's in B. No, I meant you're a grade. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's my D.

D's past, and we just fucking found that. But I was you know, I I had to do green sleeves for my final. That song Green sleeves. Okay. Which is da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-dun.

Oh, yeah. But, you know, like the thing that was killer about the class was... Oh, English folk song, yeah. Yeah. And you used to jam this song when you're a kid, right? I did. Yeah. I can still play.

No, I mean, after learning it for the thing I did, yeah. But I can still play this. Like, I still play it from time to time just to kind of like, I'm like, there's something about me. Like, I got to keep my chops up. Like, as long as I can still play this, I'm good with guitar. But at the time, yeah, that's a really sad song. Like, all the notes are all minor.

I love sad chords, man. Yeah, it's like. And the minor is like, that motherfucker killed it on all the sad chords on that one. and uh you know so i i did that but it was killer because we had just you know a bunch of friends we're playing guitar we're making music and even if we are we were just kind of goofing off we were basically just smoking weed and like playing guitar and yeah in high school and i was taking a lot of mescaline in high school so like mescaline was like you know like acid oh my goodness got it like all the all the yeah all the all the all the cholo vato's in my high school i went to american

high in Fremont and and and all the Cholovato sold mescaline like so we were just like constantly frying in class and you know fucking coming into class stoned as fuck and like and a teacher definitely knew I probably

she probably knew about the mescalate because the mescaline was really hard to hide because it makes you laugh right like you're just like I'm just trying to read a book like cracking them all oh my god yeah like laughing for no reason at all like it's kind of hard to hide that yeah but I loved it.

I went crazy on mescaline for a while. Like I really, like, I really, I leaned hard into it, me and my friends. What does it make you feel? What do you, like, what do you think about? I never took it. I mean, it's, have you ever done acid? No, mushrooms?

Yeah. Oh, I'm good for you. Just DMT and ayahuasca. Okay. Yeah, probably, probably similar to an ayahuasca vibe. Okay. Like kind of, you know, hallucinations and. Oh, okay.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, a lot of hallucinations. Emotional changes. Duh. Emotional changes. A lot of visual distortions, though. Okay. And I took the one time I did it, probably the last time that I did it. I didn't have a, you can't have a bad trip on it sometimes.

And one of the time, I generally had good trips on it, but me and my friend, this kid down the street, Vance, we took it. And then we went, we went outside of his house and we were just looking up at the trees. And I remember every single leaf on the tree, this is nighttime now, and every single leaf on the tree turned into a devil's head. And it was like, this tongue sticking out and fucking horns.

And I was just like, holy shit, this is a thing. And I looked at the tree stump and it just turned into a giant python that was just endlessly going down until like, I don't know, the dirt or hell or whatever the fuck it was. We started walking down,

we started walking down Fremont Boulevard and like, I go to piss behind a truck. You know, pissing behind a car. I'm pissing behind a car. I'm pissing behind a truck. I'm looking at all the headlights coming and I'm on a gravel. And it just turned into a bunch of skulls rolling at me like hundreds of skulls like rolling at me like as I'm taking this piss. And we went and sat down and we're like leaning.

We didn't want to go into his house because his mom, we were like, his mom was there. And we're like, oh, my God, your mom's going to know we're frying on mescaline. And so like let's just sit outside. So he was in a like a townhouse complex and we're sitting there in the local bullies. through as we're like leaning up against these trees. Oh, yeah, but like the three bullies of the neighborhood like come through and we're like, oh no, we're like, fuck. And they're like, what are you doing?

And we're just like, we can't even talk. Like we're so fucking shot on mescaline right now. We've taken two hits of mescaline. And we're sitting there literally paralyzed against this tree sitting down up against this tree. They're like, get up. They start like fucking punching us around and we're like trying to get up. I'm just like, I stand up and I'm looking at this dude and it's just like, I stand up and I'm looking at this dude and it's like I'm talking like 500 super fast lines are just going on his

face like drawing all over his face and I'm just like holy shit like starts punching me and my friend Vance he's like what the fuck's it matter with you guys like fight back we're like like uh uh like fucking is like ripping you idiot yeah I mean we just we couldn't even do anything and finally after like I guess he got bored of us and was just like leave these fucking dicks alone and just like went that's that's what he called bad trip it wasn't a bad trip in some ways it was kind of like a lesson we were just like oh man if you just like shut your mouth and like not say anything like the bully leaves you alone and uh so we then we go in and we watch it we start watching tv and you know do you know who uh what's the guy that did over the pandemic

he started doing like all the metal covers um was it robert frip it was from king crimson it was the guy from king crimson he started doing a bunch of metal covers like oh there's it was just on that YouTube if you go back yeah go to the right a little bit yeah that one right there that guy is that right yeah Robert Fripp so Robert Fripp is it this is the guy for king crimson and so we go in and we're trying to like hide from his man's mom and we turn on the TV and this motherfucker's on and king crimson is like the most insane like jazz prog rock fucking mayhem you'll ever fucking hear in your life and he's playing a song called elephant talk. Okay. And it's like elephant talk like like it's fucking

it was the ultimate music for frying on two hits of mescaline like it was weird and crazy and psychedelic and bizarre and fucking oh my god it's just the most bizarre shit. Yeah he's a sick guitar player what is that sick guitar player dude he's insane. Yeah listen to this shit what instrument is that I have no idea but we start watching this like as we're frying on mescaline and we're just like this is insane oh my god God. You got to remember, this is like 1983 or something, you know. Oh, they definitely did all the drugs.

Like, this is made for dudes on acid. And so that's us. That suit alone. So we start watching this shit and we're like, whoa. And it was perfect. And it just, the night ended super good. I don't even know why I started telling the story. I kind of forgot why I started telling this story now.

No, it's great. It's perfect. Yeah, no, I like sidebars. So why you hear stuff, but it said they come. I was trying to bring. bring this back around and you know that's like in my age no it's cool because it doesn't always come back around no because uh we already went through uh through the ashes so we are we all kind of went through the stories that kind of so now so now you it's kind of gain back right the uh the uh

the band's in a better spot so where you know what uh where where were you mentally when like okay when you're gonna write the black where uh how did uh like i like did uh like i was where were you at? Well, it was crazy because like I, you know, I had my first kid about halfway six months into a 20-month touring cycle. I have Zander. And, you know, I take a break. And then I take a break for like two months and then I go right back on to tour. And, you know, I'm gone for another 18 months.

No, 14 months. 14 months I'm gone and I come back and then we get pregnant again and you know we wanted we wanted to have two we wanted to have two kids and we wanted to have them close together and you know now we're writing and you know we're confident like we've really jailed as a band 20 months torn will jail you as a band you know being like we're played every fucking nook and cranny of planet earth by this point wow and you know we're feeling good and we're feeling strong and we just we just start writing you And, you know, you never know where, I mean, I shouldn't say you never know. Like, I never know where I'm going to go with a record. Like, I don't know where I'm going to go. I mean, I want to write heavy and I want to do sound like machine head. But, you know, I love that Keith Richards quote where he always just says, you know, we're just a vessel. And the music's just leading you.

And you just kind of follow the music to wherever you're going. Because that's what, that's what it is. I fully believe in that. And, you know, so we start writing. And, you know, the first first two songs we write in a beautiful morning and slanderous. Like, slanderous is my least favorite song on the record. Like, I don't even like the song, really. Like, it's just like, whatever.

It's okay. You know, like, it's okay. But so I'm not like, you know, and then we had written a bunch of other songs that didn't make the record also during this period that all were just kind of okay. Like, you know, so like the first, like, the first, like, three, four months that we're writing for the blackening, like there's nothing to indicate, oh, wow, this is going to be some awesome record. Like, I honestly think all the songs suck. Like, I don't like any of the songs were writing. And so then we hit upon, uh, beautiful morning. And we get to that middle section and, um, you know, I mean, most of my fans know this, but I'm a huge

My Chemical Romance, romance. I love my chemical romance. Like three cheers for sweet revenge, the Black Parade, like those are also, in addition to Cole plays first two records, like those two My Cam Records are, like, Desert Island Records for me. And, you know, I, I haven't really heard, you know, these kind of like super crazy emo melodies before, you know, like these really, like, sad emo melodies that are, especially on that, that, that Three Cheers record. And, you know, I'm just like, you know, I'm going to try. Like, you know, like, you know, I'm going to try. I'm kind of getting more confident as a singer. You know, like I'm not, I'm not a very good singer.

You know what I mean? Like I'm up until this point, I'm completely self-taught. Like, you know, I don't, you know, I know what I want to hear. And I've always sang on every machine head record. Like there's always singing, you know, like, I'm your God now or even old or song like Nation on Fire. Like it's got singing. But I'm not confident as a singer.

And I'm, I know I'm good at heavy singing and screeching, but I'm not, you know, I'm not confident in my clean. singing but singing along to like my cam and stuff i kind of get like that confidence where i was like i you know like i think i can do some of this like high clean singing like i feel like i can do this and uh so i start trying a couple of things like that in that song beautiful morning in particular the bridge of beautiful morning and once that part comes together i'm like this is killer like this is something new this is something fresh from machine head like it works like it sounds like machine head and you know it kind of like really lights a fire under me and you know the

time of the record you know this is during the first gulf uh the first iraq war you know this is is still you know we're still post 11 here and you know we're still very affected by it you know there's a lot of anti-war lyrics on there and as i go further and further down you know the writing process a lot of songs are starting to have this anti-war you know i'm fucking hate the Bush administration and like all of that's kind of coming out and you know in some ways it's even coming out almost too much like I'm trying to make every song be like an anti-war song and including that song beautiful morning and like I really tried to make that song be this anti-war song and it just wouldn't like the verses you know because I have this really sad part in

the middle right like and I wanted to make this sad part about you know what I was feeling about this war that I felt was totally unjust and I just wouldn't work like it just no matter how hard like I'm trying to stick a a square into a circle and it's just not fitting and it wouldn't so I just had to like throw away I literally wrote like 10 versions of that song of that song's lyrics and I just fucking threw them all the way and then I just dug into like depression and you know whatever going through and and yeah so like we're going through that and then You know, we just kind of hit on these magical moments. It really was like kind of a magical time.

Like we were all dialed in. Everybody was there practicing every time, you know. And, you know, you know what it's like. Sometimes, like, dudes aren't in it. Like sometimes dudes just are checked out. They don't want to fucking be at the practice room. They got shit to do. New girlfriend.

What pussy starts calling and they're like, I got to go if I can do this. And I'm like, I get it. You know, like, I get it. You know, I've been there at times too. But, like, you know, it was. a magical time when we were all just there and there for the work and there to put it in and you know we're grinding like you know Dave and I were there you know two hours before the other guys would show up we jam for three hours at rehearsal then stay for another hour and a half work on shit so like we were a fucking killing machine by the time this record was like finalized we go into the studio and it's like boom shit's fucking done hell of fast and granted like musically I'm saying because lyrically then I had to like you know and so you know we're writing these songs and so you know we're writing these songs and and the first, you know, we write this first batch of songs that I think are awful, and then we write another batch of songs that I'm pretty stoked on,

and this ends up being, you know, beautiful morning, slanderous, now I lay thee down, and aesthetics of hate. So these are the four shortest songs on the record. These are all like standard, you know, five minute long songs, you know, for machine head, that's kind of like our average length or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, so really there's, there's nothing to indicate that we're going to start writing 10 minute long songs at any point during this whole process, right? Like, you know, there's never, there's not even a precedent for the last record, you know.

We read a long song on the last record that Descend the Shades of Night song. And then at some point, we just start writing these really long, involved, merciful fate, 30 changes in a song, 30 riffs. in a song type of songs and you know we don't got a clock in our dressing in our in our jam room like you know I have no idea how long these songs are we're just kind of vibing it out we're like this feels killer and then what you know after like a couple of months we're like let's time these songs and see how long they were like 10 minutes like what the fuck like these are 10 minute long songs and I was like dude like we're crawling up our own ass like this is crazy like nobody wants to hear four 10 minute long like nope this is this we're getting like

we're turning into like the self-indulgent musician who sticks his fucking head too far up his ass yeah so it's a fine line dude it is it is and i'm like and so everybody's like you know what you might be right i'm like okay let's trim the fat trim him back down to five minutes so we take now we take these 10 minute long songs and we trim him down to five minutes and we're playing them and we're kind of working on him for a couple of weeks and they don't feel right it's like you took all of the loop to loops out of a roller coaster like all of the fun part And now we're just writing on a kid's roller coaster. And we're like, what happened to like all the, all the fun's gone.

Like all the, you know, so we were like, fuck it, man. Like, let's put it in and roll the dice. And, you know, it's album number six. Like, what do we got to prove? Like, let's just do what we're going to do and, and see what happens. And, you know, we went in there. And it was really a challenge, like the lyrics were the biggest challenge. Like that was, you know, writing lyric.

You know, it's like nine, 10, 11 paragraphs. a fucking lyrics that i got to come up with now to like fit these songs and but you know we did it and it came out and it was just it's lightning in a bottle man like you never you know you never know what people are are going to think about a record you know like you hope everybody likes it and you believe in yourself and in some way i think every band when they go to to put out new music go and they do like this is the part that honestly this is the part of of setting up a record that I hate like I the period between the record's not out yet of course and you got to talk about it and try and describe with words what music sounds like and I I I don't know like yeah like you know

like I can't sell this shit like you know I'm just so you know even when you listen to my interviews from that time i'm like i hope everybody gets what we're doing with these 10 minute long songs like but if you don't get it like i i understand like i understand why you might not get it because

the fuck we've got 10 minute long songs it's crazy and uh it just fucking blows up man like the record just explodes like it's just it's a complete phenomenon that is just becomes bigger

than us. It becomes bigger than anything. And we go out on tour and, you know, we end up, you know, we're touring with God, and we go out with heaven and hell. And it's heaven and hell and Megadeth. And I'm a huge Black Sabbath fan.

And I've already toured with Black Sabbath once on the Oz Fest when they did their first reunion with Ozzy. And so I had kind of gotten to know Gyser a bit at that point. You know, Gyser used to like, It was crazy like on Oz Fest like I go up. I watch Sabbath every single. Of course.

This is this is dream come true. Pinch me. I can't even fucking believe. Like I don't even like I'm totally like I'm so like fucking imposter syndrome on the fucking that tour. I'm just like I don't even deserve to be here. Like why like this is crazy like I'm you know and then geysers like you know geyser's a huge machine head fan like geysers come out to see machine head shows and he's like

head banged to death. church and shit and I'm like oh my god like that's fucking sick and so you know I'm like he comes up and like I'll be watching on the side of the stage and Gies real kind of like come over and he'll be like Rob come here and I'm like what do you mean he's like come here like he's pulling he's like calling me to like come towards the stage like while he while he's playing a show at a fucking sold out amphitheater and I'm like what he's like come here and he like he'll pull me up and like just line me up behind his bass amp and he's like just watch the show from here. And so I'm like,

like, I'm just like, I'm like, I shouldn't even be here. Like, what the fuck? Like, what my dumbass on this fucking stage? Like, everybody's like, who the fuck is this dude? And he's like, are you sure? He's like, no, it's fine. Like, stay here. And so I watch the fucking, like, I'm watching Black Sabbath play. Like, you don't even know, dude. Like, I was a 13 year old fucking dork who worshipped the ground. Like every Black Sabbath record. I'm writing in, to the Black Sabbath fan club. And, you know,

Ozzy's already, you know, doing solo career, and they've already got Dio, like, at this point. And I'm like, I'm like, please get back together with Ozzy Osbourne and come to the Cal Palace in San Francisco

and play national acrobat off of Sabbath, bloody Sabbath. And I will be there with a sign that's, you know, like, on a sheet, like hanging from the, you know, like, I'm writing all this, like, to the thing. And, of course, I never heard back, remember whatever.

But I'm just like, for me, this is like, this is like a, I can't even tell you how special it is that, you know, that I have the respect of these guys. Like I never, ever, ever, in a million fucking years dreamed I'd be doing this type of shit or that Gieser Butler would invite me to watch fucking Black Sabbath play. You know, here I am. Like, I wrote this dude as I'm 13. He's now inviting me to stand on fucking stage, you know, so I'm just like, it's, you know, it's dream come true shit. That is a beyond dream.

Yeah. And then we go on that. We go on the heaven and hell tour. on the blackening and you know I'm walking out and I'm come out of my dressing room most days and then for some weird reason like for about a week straight every time I walked out of my dressing like I'm going to go to catering I'm going to go to the bathroom I'm going to go back to my bus Tony Iommi walks out of his dressing room at the exact same time and so I look down the hall and I'm like oh hey Tony and he's like hey Rob and I'm like oh my god Tony I don't

He knows my name. He knows my name. He knows I'm alive. And fucking, you know, time passes, you know, like the tour ends. And then we go over to Europe and we're touring in Europe. And we're now doing the festival circuit. We do download. It's this giant fucking moment.

And the metal hammer awards come up. We're playing the metal hammer awards. We're up for Best Album up against Lamb of God who was very mad at us when we lost. But I end up winning a golden god. and the Blackening wins album of the year. And we're upstairs as this happened. You've got to walk from upstairs to downstairs to walk on stage.

And as we're walking by, it's Tony Iommi and Gieser Butler sitting on a table right at the corner as we're coming around. And Tony Iommi gets up and he goes, Rob, fucking congratulations, mate, and gives me a fucking huge hug

on my way down to like accept this award. And I was like, it was Chris it was one of the most surreal moments of my fucking life and you know never in a million years that I ever dreamed that I'd do it and it was just so fucking you know this is like this is the blackening

to me like it just was like an endless stream of good news for fucking you know three years and then it was like an endless stream of bad news you know like Phil's father passed away day's mom passed away like it was like all these like crazy ups and downs and you know we toured for three years and three months on that record like slip-knott tours and then we get

Metallica tours and fucking headlining every festival and you know we did two headline tours the whole time like it was like we did eight eight tours of the US like it was fucking it was bananas you know man to think back like when you're when you got that tech job yeah yeah that's only that's only five years in the past you know what I mean yeah how much you could fucking do and it's like a few years man yeah well you fucking earned it man It's cool. Yeah.

You say, fuck it, I'm doing it. I mean, and then touring with Metallica, dude, like that was just,

I mean, that was for me, you know, that was, you know, Metallica, I, I love Black Sabbath,

right? Like, Black Sabbath, like the band that, you know, like, they're the reason I wanted to smoke weed and drink beer

and get snowblind and sleep with dirty women, you know what I mean? Like, fucking, like, every, every decadent rock and roll

thing, like came from that band. I wanted to play my first guitar riff ever learned. or Black Sabbath songs. You know, so like that band holds this special place in my, in my young heart, right?

The Metallica is like the band that's like kind of sets me on my, on my path. You know, like I'm, you know, I become friends with this guy named Jim Pittman in my high school art class. And, you know, at the time I'm listening to what was, you know, pretty underground music, like, you know, the first Motley crew,

I love the first two Motley Crew records. Like I love Shout at the Devil. I love Live Wire and Too Fast for Love and I'm listening to Black Sabbath. And this guy turns me on. He's like, no, there's this whole new like thrash metal thing coming up. And I was like, oh, yeah, what's that? And he's like, starts playing me all of this underground music. He like, he's a tape trader and he trades with people.

And he's like, I've got pen pals all over the world and they send me like this music. And it's all like demos and bootlegs and live versions of stuff. And there's these bands coming from California. And one of them just moved up here and they're called. Metallica and you know they're playing this super fast form of music and like I listen to it I'm like holy shit like what the you know he's playing me like the Slayer you know first album you know Metallica demos exodus demos and then punk rock discharge Gbh like fucking all this like gnaty's like all this shit and so he opens up this whole like world for me that I'm

totally you know you know up until then I've listened to Iron Maiden I listen to Saxon I'm listening to you know that kind of stuff but he really takes me down this whole like other thing and and you know he I'm lucky enough to have had a handful of people in my life that they see something in me that I can't see in myself you know he he's like he told you to be a singer right yeah he tells me to he's like you seem like you're the guitar player you should play guitar And I'm already playing guitar at this point, but like, you know, like he really kind of makes me like go down that route. And, you know, like I said, we're pretty poor. And my dad's like, and I talk to my dad, like, I want to get a guitar.

And my mom's like, I don't want you to, you know, play music. You should do something else. And my dad's like, look, I'll rent you a guitar. I'll rent you a guitar. And if after three months you're still playing the guitar, you know, We can talk about maybe buying you one. Oh, that's a good deal. Yeah, totally.

And so for $45 a month, he rents me like an area pro guitar. Area pro. Yeah, the area pro. It's like a, it's like a stratacaster type of guitar. Yeah. Are you pulling it up? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, kind of like the ones on the right.

Yeah, sort of like that. Nice. Not quite as fancy, but just like a plain strap. Okay. And, and I get an amp that's about four inches by four inches by four. It's like a little square amp like this and I just I play that thing day and fucking night like day and fucking night. I'm playing guitar and then I get in a band and we end up getting this guy his name's Noel and he's a really good guitar player but he's not into thrash at all like he's into like UFO and stuff like that and I don't really like UFO but I'll play it because I'm just like jamming and I'm just like I'll just fucking play because I want to just fucking play I don't care. So I learn how to to play rock bottom even though i hate the song rock bottom i'm just like doing that UFO there you go totally and he's like crazy about it and you know this is michael shanker's on the guitar like he's a guitar legend

i just don't like i don't get it like i don't get it at the time because i'm so into thrash you know this is like it sounds old to me and uh and so you know he's so good that we get a we get a there's a talent show happening at a at a hotel like a holiday inn and it's like a it's it's like a bunch of bands are going to go do like a battle with the bands at this thing but it's it's it's half battle of the bands half uh kids beauty pageant so it's like you know 13 year old girls like getting up there singing like kumbaya my lord and then it's like a handful of like rock bands and we come up and we come up and we come up and we come up and we're like a handful of like rock bands and we come up and we come up and we're We play a song by this band called Torch. They were kind of like a new wave of British heavy metal band from Sweden called Torch. And we get up there and like my drummer is just like, you can't play guitar. Like you're not good enough. He's like, so he's like, you should just sing.

And I was just like, really? I was like, I'd rather just play guitar. He's like, no, you know, you seem like you're the singer. You should just sing. And I was like, okay, but I'm super annoyed because I just want to play guitar. And I get up there. Yeah, there it is Torch right there. I can't remember the name of the song, but I want to say,

It was the first song on the record. That's a promo picture. Oh, my God. Look at that album cover. Isn't that the best album cover you've ever seen in your life? That's way better than the blackening. Oh, my God. It's like those,

it's like those early Pantera record covers, right? Like, just so fucking out of hand. Sometimes it's so bad, it's good. Right? That's a great. Totally. That's a great example. That's a great example.

But so we get there and like, and you know, this is like one of those moments where like we plug in, We start playing. We just, we just followed this, you know, 12-year-old girl who sang kumbaya wearing like a tiara, like a sash. And then we get up there and we're like, bow, do, do, yeah, yeah, yeah. And at one point I like slide on my knees up to the front.

And you got us, dude, I swear to God, ever, I remember that I'll never forget the look on everybody's faces because it was such a fucking, it was such a rad moment. I'm telling you like 70% of the audience, just like the minute we started playing went, and covered their ears and stood up, and walked out the fucking door.

And I was the stall. Oh, wow. Like, you can do that with music? Okay. Whoa, I guess we won. Yeah. One. That's a good album cover right there.

That's a really good album cover right there. It's a little better. Is this an electric kiss? I don't even know this. Yeah, this is 80s for sure. That's an 80s. Totally. Yeah.

That's a drug. And so we start, so we start playing. Like, we start playing garages. We start playing, you know, backyard. parties we start playing living room parties and you know we're we're we're playing like the kegger party circuit in fremont you know i moved to fremont like when i'm in junior high and uh and fucking you know it's it's killer because and then we go see so metallica puts out kill them all and you know like the first time i ever get drunk is to metallica my friend jim's older brother buys us

you know like a 12 pack of beer and we sit there my parents are like at a bar like till 2 a am dancing and uh and he played we've got a bootleg of metallica playing live somewhere like probably the stone in san francisco and we start freaking out we get the more more we get drunk we just put whiplash on loop like we just listen to whiplash like a hundred times in a row we start walking around with the boombox on my i really right behind the track of the high school and so like we're walking around like screaming whiplash the top of of our lungs, shit face fucking drunk, or first time ever fucking drunk

and like listening to this live bootleg of whiplash. And we're like, this is the fucking best band. Like, I want to make music like this. Like, this is the music I want to make. And then next thing we hear, Metallica is coming into town. And it's Raven headlining Metallica and Exodus opening. And it's the Killem All for one tour. And they're playing at the Keystone Berkeley,

which is like a 500, like probably a 400 cap room. And I have my dad drop us off. I can't even like drive at this point like I have my dad drop us off and I make my dad drop us off like two blocks away from the show because I'm like dad like I can't can't be seen like thrashers dad like getting dropped off by my dad and yeah there it is right there it is. So it's the second to last night of the tour I think great because Berkeley and then San Francisco if I'm my I can't I can't read that but uh or maybe it's not yeah there it is Keystone Berkeley what what's the day on that I can't see that that's a temper second. September 2nd, okay. September 2nd, 83. I wasn't even born yet. Yeah, cool.

And so me and my friend were waiting in line and we're freaking, we're already Exodus freak. I actually had that shirt, that shirt right there, go to the left right there, the Raven, kill them all for one tour. I had that shirt. And I gave it to my buddy Craig La Cicero and forbidden. And he fucking lost it, that motherfucker. Oh, I would kill to have that shirt right now. You always lose it. No, you can't loan your metal shirts to your homie.

No, dude. And he also can't follow your CDs. You always scratch them or stealing. So we go to the show and right when we, you know, at this point I've gone to like, you know, my parents had taken me to see, you know, like I said, my parents aren't into rock music at all. And so they've taken me to see a couple concerts in my life because they do like to go out to see concerts. So they've taken me to see Donnie and Marie. Which was like a kind of like a variety show that was on television at the time Donnie Marie were these famous You know Mormons or whatever yeah and you know it's like pop music or whatever yeah and I remember that's like the first concert I go to when it's just nothing but screaming girls

Arena full of fucking screaming girls for an hour they play yeah that's that this is that this is the first concert I guess yeah it's like so fucking like first concert huh yeah I'm a little bit country I'm a little bit rock and roll and I had the straight up Donnie hair. Did you? When I was in like fourth and fifth grade. Yeah, I found, I found the pictures. This guy, Tethlin, like Star Wars. What's that?

I was like, I saw, I saw her cut this guy Tethlin and love Star Wars. Oh, I love Star Wars. And this shit was like, so we go see it. And then they're like, they're like, they take me to go see John Campbell, which is like, kind of like a country guy who ended up hosting a TV show called That's Incredible. Okay. And then they take me to go see Neil Sadaka, like a bunch of like, kind of like older pop guys from like the 15.

and 60s and then I my first concert is ACDC which was funny because Chris Barnes said that was one of his first concerts the ACDC show on the those about to rock tour my that's my first rock concert oh wow and and so yeah people together yeah I love that your dudes doing this the whole time that's so good like I love it yeah it's awesome we got a fact check and bring up bring him the flyers you know yeah but then you know so my this is my first like one of my first metal show is going to see this Metallica show and

we walk in and the first person we see is James Hetfield from Metallica and he's at a bar stool and he's signing autographs. This is we walked into that we paid our $7 or whatever it was and we walked 10 feet and there's James

Hetfield signing autographs and we're like, holy shit like this is the dude who was singing whiplash to and we were drunk the other day. And so and so We're like you know we just walk up. We're like can we get an autograph? He's like fuck yeah. You write it's like fuck yeah my friend's autograph You know like and signs his name on what a cool dude. Yeah and then and he goes up and this is like Cliff Burton's There and I remember

Every second of this show dude Cliff Burton's wearing a dawn of the dead like Jersey. He's got his fucking big old fatty big big big bells on James head James Hetfield's wearing a Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6 t-shirt So 666 with an upside

Down cross behind it and I was like Holy shit he hates Reagan Sick And so and then You know Kirk's wearing the fucking That's a Kirk on the right there over there with the V and the leather jacket and the fucking that whole trip Oh my God

Like it's awesome Like this show me and my friend we don't go up front because we're kind of scared because everybody's like circle pit and we're like whoa this is crazy oh yeah it's like kind of the first time i'm really seeing like a fucking raging circle pit and first time you see like real pick you're like oh wow yeah and so i'm sitting there nice i'm sitting there and i'm like i'm like we we head bang the whole show and then we start to watch a little bit of raven and then i got to leave because my dad you know this is like no cell phones this is like my dad's like i'm going to be there to pick you up at x time 10 30

or whatever and uh and you know you got to be there because i got i got to go to work my dad was a baker he worked at two in the morning he worked from two till like 10 and so he picks me up in the whole ride home my dad you know me and jimber just like okay we're starting a band we're gonna be faster and heavier and thrashier and fucking you know just relentless and then like that's we just go down this fucking route of thrash like just fucking everything becomes about thrashing and being faster and you know we start playing these backyard parties as forbidden we start forbidden evil and that's the first band i'm in and you know we just start we instantly i mean we're playing cover songs too so we're playing like slayer covers we're playing black magic by slayer we're playing a lesson

in violence by exodus whiplash by metallica and then we're doing our own originals you know we start writing original oh yeah you kind of sprinkle them in there yeah we start kind of so we're doing like half and half and then if we're playing like sometimes we play parties like this is when like a kegger We're 8, 17 at this point. So we can't buy beer. So like if we play a kegger party, you know, it's generally like older dudes. And older dudes will be like, all right, play like a Led Zeppelin song. What's all this fast shit?

This sucks. You know, and we're just like, okay. So we got to play like a Led Zeppelin song. Like in between like Black Magic, we're playing like a Led Zeppelin song or, you know, an Ozzy song just to like kind of, you know, make the dudes party that we're playing at happy. And then, but eventually we kind of get like a buzz. You know, like we get a buzz going in the, in the neighborhood, and we start getting other young kids from my high, we play our high school. And, you know, we play my, our guitar player, Craig, Craig La Cicero. We play his high school. And this becomes like the stuff of legend in our total, you know, little boring suburb of Fremont, which is like 50 miles, you know, away from the city. And, you know, like, we get a circle pit at the high school, right? Like, fucking, they build us a stage and we play lunch. We play at lunchtime. And fucking, we get a circle pit and fucking kids are stage diving and like fucking the fucking teachers in the school don't know what to fucking do.

They're like, they're like, this is this is too much, you know, but we're like, fuck yeah. You know, like we haven't even played a club show at this point. And we think like we're the like we're the kings of Fremont. Oh, yeah. Yeah, when you remember, yeah, they used to have bands played during the lunch break, but then once the first pit started, that stopped quickly. Very that. Very quickly. Yeah.

Yeah. We had a definite band play at our lunchtime. And then they stopped having bands play during lunch. Right. After that in high school. For sure. But you got... Totally understandable.

Yeah, but if you got in there, you got... We found that sweet spot. Boom. Yeah, that was your kickoff, dude. That's sick, man. Hey, Rob, I'll feel a terrible if I don't bring it up now. We haven't even talked about your new record yet. Right.

Yeah. It's coming out. We have. Yeah. April 25th. Yes. Correct? Nice.

What's up with the... personal question, what was it did on purpose the way you did the song titles and all the O's? Yeah. Did you, okay, I'm gonna write this song, but it has to have an O in the song title.

Was that like some kind of... Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I didn't really think about it like that. But I started doing that on the last record. Okay. Yeah. I started doing that on the last record.

And it's awesome. You know, like, I we did it again on this record and we've gotten so much shit from like oh my god the scandinavians are losing their minds over it they're just like what the what what are you doing like that sound is like blah blah blah blah they think it's dorky and I'm just like look you know motorhead with the umlots or you know motley crew with the umlots or the black metal bands cult you know kvLT I'm like I'm just playing I'm just playing with the alphabet man like I'm just you know there's so many bands and there's so many things and I'm just

trying to do things that make us stand apart a little bit from it just so it's kind of like and now it's kind of like our thing like it's just a machine head thing and i'm just going to roll with it yeah it's a vowel that apparently sounds like oink it sounds like the word oink so if you're saying like choke it's more like chink or whatever okay and i'm like whatever i don't fucking care like i just think it looks cool and i kind of just went down that route you got to do things that just mate make you stand out yeah we we still do that you have to do every every record you guys get us to get us to get out man yeah songs yeah i heard i heard the record this morning man it's awesome that's right we sent you the record yeah cool awesome well it's funny i had a i was driving here jamming it was

kind of i forget sometimes because i'll be jamming like like a new record i'll be oh shit like this isn't this isn't this isn't even out yet this is like right it's like what would i tell myself in a when what would I tell myself in high school you're gonna get these records in advance you're just gonna jam them let's casually like oh shit I'm listening to the brand new record

and it's not even a big new yeah that's so fun I was like damn that that's fucking sick dude two months in advance yeah it's awesome man yeah it's it's also awesome that you don't got to worry about like the leaking yeah I don't know yeah that's not really a thing anymore right thank God yeah yeah I mean in some ways I

I was never like I know like the record industry kind of went crazy on it I was never that like you know like I said my friend traded tapes man I had everything months sometimes years before it came out

you know I mean when I was a kid when we were like coming up in the thrash scene like I had rain and blood four months before it came out it still had the high hat counts at the beginning of every song like we were we had that shit from everywhere you know like we had just a whole like network of people that would send us you know we had we had exodus bonded by blood

six months before it came out oh shit we had all the bootlegs that they were playing all the songs you know i had a million you know creator record and like a bunch of stuff like that so to me you know that that never that never you know it never killed my desire to want to buy the record or own the record it made my fandom even more deep because Because I felt first of all I felt like I had something special that nobody else had and I was just like this is just cool that like I've got rain and blood and you don't You know what I mean because I know how sick it is and like you got to like and I just play it from my friends I'm like you got to hear this shit. It's so fucking sick and You know and second of all like it It's just you know like it just makes that much more cool when everybody finally hears it and you're like yes dude

You know it's so fucking good and you know all the bootlegs all the demo versions, all the different versions of songs, like I had the Metallica demo. I had Exodus demos, and then you heard the album and it's a little bit different. You know, you had bootlegs you know, I'm learning how to play guitar to Exodus bootlegs. That's how I'm learning how to play guitar. Exodus doesn't have their album out yet. You know, I don't learn, you know, we're playing a lesson in violence, like before a lesson in violence is even out. Like, that's how big of an impact this underground tape trading scene is. You have a whole other perspective. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's like without it, you know, like I don't learn how to play guitar. You know what I mean? Like without learning those songs like because of that. So to me it is super, you know, the leaking thing never was a big deal, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't a locust leak like two months in a? Ash's leaked.

I mean, ashes was out six months everywhere before it came out in America. Blackening leak, Locust League. Bloodstone leaked, you know, like, and I was just like, who cares? Big deal. You know, like, it is what it is. And people are excited about it. And that's, it don't matter. And now it doesn't matter really because, you know.

Yeah. Because it's all DSP. Yeah. It's a whole other metric. Oh, so you sold out of the vinyl already? Dude, it's killing it. Like, it's crazy. Like our fucking pre-order is insane.

Great. It's been amazing. It's been really amazing. Yeah. You got to have a sick vinyl. Yeah. You fucking have to, man. Yeah.

When did you write this riff? I wrote it in July of 2023. Yeah, that's a fucking... Three note, the three note, bendy. That's a riff that once you have it, you're like, okay, it's everything's going to be fine. Yeah. I totally was just like, oh, this is a good one. I was like, I hadn't written a, you know, I used to write bendy.

riffs all the time like burn my eyes has got two songs with big bendy riffs you know like more things change has got the end of front lines got like a sick bendy riff with a bar thing you know but fucking devil with the king's card is all fucking bendy riffs you know like on burning red yeah and then i just you know i don't always get away from them but i kind of just give it a break sometimes just because i don't want to overdo a bendy riff yeah and then but this time around i brought it back like big time yeah i was like i got to bring back bendy riff i haven't done it in a minute it's like this one just wrote itself. It did.

It was very, this song came together super fast. Like fucking super fast. Some songs come to you fast in some or it was a fucking hassle, dude. Some songs take, yeah, I mean, it's all the process, right?

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's the process. And it's great when it happens fast. And sometimes it's great when it takes a long time. You know, because you just,

you got to go there with it. You know, like you don't know. where it's going and you just go, ah, this sucks. And I always, I demo like crazy. Like, I really demo a lot. And I always have just because I need to, like, I'm doing, no, I'm, when I, when I write, like, I hear, I hear guitar, I hear bass. I hear drums.

I hear vocals. I hear like the whole song. So when I start, like, rehearsing it or whatever, I can't really, you know, I, you know, I I hear it, I'm hearing it in my head one way. And then, but I can't like, I can't listen to it. You know what I mean? Like it's like I'm playing it and it's like I'm kind of doing this other motion and I, like, I can't analyze it. And then, so I got a demo to like hear it back and that's when I can go, oh, okay, this is working or this isn't working or whatever.

But when I'm playing it, like I can't think like that. I don't know, like I've never been able to do that. Yeah. Like I can't, but I can hear everything that's going on, but I just can't go, is this good or is this bad until I'm hearing it and I'm not doing anything. That makes sense. Yeah, I thought about that way. Maybe that might be a problem I have.

Because when you're playing, my life, it sucks, but you only know until you kind of, you're not, like, you're not playing. Yeah. It's weird, have you ever heard your, yes, I remember, like, when you're doing sound check or some, like you're playing, but then when you're not playing,

it sounds completely different. You ever have that? What's that? When I'm doing, sound check. If I'm not playing, like if I'm not playing, I'm like, oh, that's how my tone sounds like. Oh, someone else is playing your guitar. Yeah, but the moment you are playing it, it just sounds like, yeah, I mean, you know, it's all in that, you know, it's all in the hands. It's all in the hands, it's all in the hands. It is. Yeah, like, your guitar tech can play your guitar and you're like,

no, that's not how my shit sounds. Yeah. So no, it has a sound shittier. I'll show you how to do it. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, it is in some ways, right? Like, you got to kind of add, sometimes you got to add like a slop. Like, they're playing it too right. I had a lot. Rob, I have, I add a lot of slop. There's, there's a lot of slap. I love slop. I mean, I make a point to add slop in there. It's like, you know, I love that punk rock. I mean, I do. It's a part of me. I grew up on so much punk rock and going to punk rock shows. And, you know, like, I used to go to like a hundred shows a year. You know, like, I saw so many fucking band. I'm like, that's what I loved about.

punk rock and hardcore like it wasn't about metal kind of there was a time period not so much now but like there's definitely a time period where metal metal got very perfect it got about being perfectly tight and perfectly jjjjjjj you know and i i was like no like you got just abandoned attitude you know like i i love that that to me is like that's the attitude and that's the fire and that's the passion and you know so i always you know i don't want to make a point to add it in but i never make a point to take it out sure sure rob i have a one more question for you um throughout your career uh do you have you have you have been like you look like you look like you look back i'm like man i wish i kind of you know did that differently you know

what what i what were some like lessons that that you have um i get this question a lot And I'm assuming it's because on album number 11, and I've been in it for a minute. Yeah. You know, I've been making music for since I was 16. I've been in advance since I was 16. You know, like I've never had, I mean, I've had some real jobs. Mm-hmm.

And I, I, I strip, I was furniture stripper. Like I worked in an antique shop stripping old furniture, like just stripping the, the protective layer out and then re-staining it or re you know putting the varnish on it. Fuck yeah. I did that for a while and I did uh, you know, I worked for Bill Graham doing catering for a little while for several, for a couple years. And I like Scott, Scott Wheeling from Stone Temple Pilots was coming up to get enchiladas one day and he got a machine head demo along with his enchilada.

Oh dude, let's go. That's how, that's how you give someone a demo. He was super annoyed. He was just all, I'm like And I could Now I could totally understand that But at the time I was like I'm hustling

I got to fucking crying like this dude who knows Maybe this dude likes me you know But uh You know like I've But I've done this for I've really really long You know I worked at a car wash for a while I've sold drugs for a while

Like I've done this for a long time A long time man You know And there's I you know I did write a song called No Fucking Regrets. It was the chorus for Imperium.

Yeah. And, you know, not to say that, you know, you don't have any regrets. You do have some regrets. I do for sure. You do have some regrets. 100%. And, but they're probably not the regrets that most people think they are. You know what I mean?

And I don't have any regrets about any of the music that I made. And the reason that is is just because, music is a moment in time, you know, and that moment could be filled with chaos that adds to the awesomeness of the music, and it can be filled with chaos that adds to the, you know, shittiness of the music when you don't get it right, you know what I mean? Like, and it's just, it's all life, you know, because that's what life is. And, you know, like, life isn't filled with all ups, you know, there's downs in there. And especially when you're in a band, you live your life in public.

And those downs are very public, you know? And they're very, you know, and we've sold this point, we sold four million fucking records. Like, you know, we're, I'm famous for lack of a better word, you know, like, and so when bad things happen to me, like, you know, some people are kind of cheering it on because I'm the famous dude. And I was like, yeah, fuck that guy, you know, fuck me just because I'm famous, you know what I mean?

It comes to the territory, unfortunately. It does. And, you know, like, none of that matters. none of that fucking matters you know the people who love you great you know people who hate you great like it is what it is you know like i i'm proud of all the songs that we made on all the records because those moments were captured and we felt that they were good enough to share them with the world and they were good enough to share with the world and whether everybody connected with them or didn't connect with them hey man you know five years from now you know five years from now you

you might connect with that song. You know, there's been a million bands that I heard the first time and I was like, this shit sucks. It's awful, you know, like. What's this band called? Suicide sounds? Oh, fuck.

I mean, like, I just didn't get it, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't get it, you know? And then five years later, maybe I saw it live or maybe I just was in a different head space and I fucking fell in love with it. You know, and I just, it fucking flipped me on my head and kicked my ass and I was like, this is so, fucking awesome and that's the beauty of music and you know somebody you know you don't like us look

i'm grateful if one person likes one song that we did and that's all that they ever like by machine head dude that's a win for me you know what i mean like there's that's that's more than you can hope for because it's so hard to get people to notice any kind of music that you make and you know for me you know I you know I told you I grew up really fucking poor there was a time you know my parent my mom got a job and eventually we got a little bit of money and we moved to Fremont we started doing okay and that's when I fell in love with all the bands and started playing guitar and started being in a band and then I kind of started fucking up again in my you know you know you're a rebellious teenager and you start acting like a dick you know and like you don't want to be

around your parents and you know I kind of fell in with the rough crowd and and and and And, you know, there were so many times when I was this lost kid, 17, 18, smoking meth on an aluminum foil little V. I'd pour meth in there. and I'd take a fucking pen, a bick pen, and I'd take the end out, and I'd stick it in my mouth, and I'd hold this fucking foil, and I'd light it, and I'd go, and we'd just smoke meth, fucking, fucking, like, crazy, get shit-faced on the cheapest $5 vodka, smoke fucking weed, like, I'm sleeping on my friend's couches, and I'm lost. Like, I'm lost, and I'm probably on my way to jail or dead real, real quick.

and I'd listen to these songs and I'd listen to music and you know it could be Jimmy Hendricks Little Wing or it could be Pink Floyd or it could be Metallica and Slayer or it could be you know punk rock you know dead Kennedys or discharge or whatever you know shit that like makes me angry or sad or whatever and it saves me it saves my fucking life and it makes me want to live and it makes me want to play guitar and it makes me want to push harder and do my thing and and that's what music is about and you know there are kids who come up to me and adults who come up to me and they say the same thing you know based on the lyrics that we wrote or based or whatever you know they were in jail for all this time and they just listened to this one song over and over

again and it got them through and you know i've had you know the leader of dms wrote me and was like fucking you know you wrote me back one time you know like I was just replying to people in the burn my eyes era and you wrote me back one time he's like you don't know how much that fucking letter meant to me you know like when I was in jail locked up and that was me that was me I was that kid so when I'm writing songs the songs on this new album unatoned like I'm not trying to reach radio people I'm not trying to reach Spotify top 50 I'm not trying to reach fucking I don't you I'm trying to reach that poor kid who grew up in a fucking white trash, no-nothing town that was fucking smoking meth and drinking his way into the fucking early grave

and needed a song. Needed a song to save him because that's who I was and that's who I write for. That's fucking beautiful, man. We always go back to that. Like what, you know, what song saved me? You know, that's full. Now that's what we're doing. You know, like, you're talking to yourself even when you get older.

I got to say when I walked in here. Yeah. I saw that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I've still got that shirt from the, from the Memorial show. Yeah. Thank you for doing that show, man.

Yeah. It was cool. I love that you have that. That's such a cool picture, you know, and I still, And I, you know, that show. Do you ever talk about this? I don't know if it's okay to talk about this. Oh, that's fine.

Okay. That's fine. Yeah. You know, I don't want to bring up bad memories. Oh, no, no. I, those are, unfortunately, I don't know. I kind of like talking about the weird stuff or anything. I'm drawn to like the dark stuff.

Like, I like talking about it. It's weird. I don't know. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, you know. That shirt. that show first of all that show was incredible

like so fucking incredible like so many people coming together you know it was beautiful man it was it was fucking beautiful like that crowd was like there was so much fucking happiness

on people's faces man like I don't know I probably never told you this but I walked through the crowd like all night I just wanted to I just wanted to I just wanted to soak in the vibe man like I just wanted to

Fucking, you know, we toured with you guys like five fucking times, man. Like so many tours. I don't know if people realize the like machine at suicide silence connection, you know, like. I'm not sure why it happened. Yeah. Sometimes it just aligns that way. The mayhemms and the fucking Megadess and the European tour and the fucking, you know. And I told a, I had a brain fart on his name, the singer for White Chapel.

Oh, Phil. Yeah. Phil, Bill, Bill Bowman. Yeah. Yeah. He, that motherfucker. fucking killed it, dude. Jesus Christ.

Pete, when he came out, I was like, oh my God, like, it was fucking savage. He's an animal. He's a fucking animal. I brought that up to him. I was like, dude, holy shit. Him and him and Ricky Hoover, who I'd never met till that night

and ended up like broling down with later on that night. He was super cool. And, but you know, I remember walking around and soaking in the vibe and catching it. And you guys had such a cool, you did like a video tribute. Like, did that start the show? The video tribute started the show, right?

Yeah. And, uh, dude, that thing was so good. And I was like, okay, I'm not gonna cry. I'm not gonna cry, I'm telling myself, like, kept on trying to someone like, don't cry. You know, and, uh, it got to the one, uh, the one, uh, the one, moment where Mitch is about to, oh yeah, I did Die Young. I did, oh, that's right, I forgot Mark

was there, huh? Mark played it with me. Yeah, I sang an acoustic version of Die Young and Mark was on guitar and Scott. And it was kind of like a nice little quiet break in a night full of raging death core. Oh, that's beautiful. I mean, I was kind of, I don't even know how this whole thing happened. I kind of just started and then it just kind of went and there was like these breaks and the segments and people were just there for it. Yeah, it was. It was awesome. And, yeah, and then I

think I played guitar on You Only Live Once. Yep. And then I'm Randy sang. I don't think I've ever seen this. No? This is at the Fox Theater. Yeah, I remember the crowd. I was super into it. I was kind of nervous. It was like, fuck, I'm playing

a fucking acoustic song in front of a death core crowd like everyone's gonna be like what are you doing and and it was good like people like it was cool you know like i'm glad they liked it because it was it was from the heart you know like i was i'm sure everybody was really emotional no more so than you and your band but you know we but i remember watching that uh intro the the video thing that you guys put together and ah the part that broke me dude the part that totally got me was the bungee jump at with full force. Yeah.

You know, the scene where he does the bungee jump and he's just like, looks in the camera and he's like, I remember talking to him right after he did that. He came in to the like the backstage area. He's like, dude, I just did a fucking, yeah, this part. Like, oh my God. I was just like, ah, like fucking, dude, that's when I lost it. I was just like, I fucking, I fucking, because I remember him coming. coming in and talking we did all those festivals together like we were on every fucking festival that day you know like every like we were there together we were hanging out like

fucking days off like fucking going in Holland we were hanging out that bar that one night and fucking you know and I was just like you know that really hit at home for me because I was like that was just that was just the other day like that was just fucking over the summer when that happened and I you know I just it brought back all those memories and all the other memories of fucking touring and You know, he was, he was such a character, man. Like, so many weird little OCD things, too. You know, like, remember how, like, he was really obsessed with taking a shower after the show.

Yeah. Like, you ever talk about that? He was, like, he would get into freak out mode if he couldn't get a shower, right? Like, I was just like, I haven't showered for five days. What's the big deal? He's like, I got to take a shower. Yeah. Like, you know, he's come into our dressing.

Like, Rob, please. Geez, like, I'm like, you go, bro. Like, you're having a moment, okay. Like, I was like, I'm probably not even going to use it. You know, he's like, whoa. Like I'm funny. You know, but just so young and fucking, you know, all those, all those moments, different moments came flooding by, you know,

made me think about like the first tour that we did with you guys, you know, like, you're the fucking hottest band on the planet, dude. We do the mayhem with you. There's like, there's no band fucking hotter. Like, it's, you are. The fucking band. Everybody's there for you, fucking crowd. Everybody, the fucking crazy single,

I pull the drag car patch. Like, fuck. I was like, holy fuck. It was starting to pop, man. It was saying. And then he's like, you had your base, you had your crazy acid bass player. Like, dude's taking acid like every night.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That guy. That was, it was at this tour, we're like, okay, like, we can't, you can't do this anymore. Yeah, that was pre-danny candy. Yeah, that guy. And I remember Mitch, he tweaked. his he had a giant

like herniated disc or something at his neck I don't know if you remember this but he had like a giant lump like a fucking lump like this big on the back of his neck because he was like head banging so hard and just going so fucking hard and he was like I don't know what I'm going to do Rob like I'm in a lot of

pain and I'm like you really need to see a gyopractor or something like dude that is not good but he just fucking that motherfucker just powered through that shit that whole goddamn tour I was like you're a fucking do that fucking stomp and the fucking hand thing and the, I was like, Jesus. Fucking beast.

Yeah, you're having hard as fuck, dude. He did. That motherfucker went hard as fuck. No one breaks, dude. I remember that. I remember that. I remember, too, like, that era, because we took you, we headlined

and you supported us on that tour for Black Crown, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that was the time when, you know, he was always I mean the fucking star like you know like

he was a fucking he had it he was one and a fucking million and uh and he was a good front man in this era you know like

very commanding and like obviously you know tall and cute and fucking you know like all the girls all the girls are crazy about I'm like he had everything right

like all the dudes wanted to be him all the chicks wanted to blow him like I was like these like you're it you're like you're like Dude. You're in. And, uh, and fucking.

But yeah, that shit. That's the shit that gave him that crazy neck thing. Yeah. I was like, fucking animal. And, uh, but like that tour. When he was on that tour and then he started doing the festivals, he's just like, I forget what he always kind of had a rap. And I can't remember what he said. He was asking that he would ask the crowd to say something.

And he's like, no, no, no. When you answer me, you answer me with power. Say it again. I can't even remember what he was like he was asking the crowd to say something maybe it was like a song title but it was like I was like whoa this motherfucker is commanding now like he's just fucking commanding it was it was amazing it was amazing to watch you know that progress like because we probably toured together I guess four years or whatever from mayhem kept going then yeah it just kept fucking going man yeah anyway shout out to having that drawing back there just because I brought back a lot of memories seeing it it was cool yeah I love I like seeing it, and I like when the band see it, to get kind of reminded, you know. I like to remind myself, too.

Yeah. I mean, it's been a long time now, right? It's over 12 years. Is it really over 12 years? Yeah, over 12 years, man. Yeah, that mayheming, when that shit fucking happened, you know it is, once you fucking, once, like, their rocket ship takes off. We've always had a really good relationship.

Like, we didn't fight or anything. We're always friends, but once that shit took off, just as that's my that's my that's my that's my demon that's my biggest regret is we just lost that connection you know yeah we're always friends but just didn't just didn't talk you're talking about the band or you're talking about him yeah yeah it was it was our band you know it was our band and uh just didn't like you know yeah she didn't didn't go home on from a tour and see yeah he was doing more writing songs it's always separate You know, it's like all about these things that, you know, it's the cliche.

You know, you don't know what we have until it's gone, you know. Yeah. It was, it took that, it took the shock wave to, to fucking change. And, I mean, you know me for a while, you know, I was a very different person, you know. So, unfortunately, it took him dying to kind of, to kind of change. Yeah. I mean, I wish it didn't have to be that. Right.

It just sucks, man. Yeah. And sometimes. you don't get like because it's true you know it's hard like people don't you know everybody thinks that like being in a band is the easiest thing in the world you know it's just pussy and drugs and booze and fucking money yeah and you're like and there is that for sure but like you know you're it's a lot of hard slogging and it's a lot of living on a tour bus for months on end and not sleeping and you know you're in a fish bowl and certainly you guys were in the biggest

fish bowl because it was like all eyes were on you like you like you're It was just fucking crazy. Like covers of magazines instantly like seven shirts and hot topic right off the bat. I was like, holy fuck. Like you guys were. Yeah. And it was like so much, you know, pressure and fame. And, you know, like, it takes a toll because like you're just around each other all the time.

And you get off the road and you don't want to fucking see that person. And it's not because you don't like him. It's because you're fucking sick of seeing them. Yeah. Like I want to see somebody else. Yeah. It's just around them all the time. It's funny how you, how.

It's funny how you could be around someone all the time, but not be with them. Right. Yeah. Totally. And not even know what's going on in their head, right? Yeah. It's fucking,

that sucks. Yeah. Yeah. And it happens. It happens way more than I think people realize in a band. That just because you're together, you don't know what's going on. You don't know what they're thinking.

You don't know what they're doing. You know. Your relationship starts to disintegrate and you don't even realize what's happening. Yeah. Until it's fucking does. And you know, and you don't always get that, you know, you don't always get that closure on your relationship. You don't, you know, we're so conditioned to believe that, you know,

through movies or a series or through just stories that like, oh, there's going to be a happy ending. The happy ending doesn't happen more often than not, you know. Like sometimes it just ends. You actually get more unhappy endings than happy endings. I noticed, especially when you're talking like a, a long career. Yeah.

I think more shit goes wrong. And I think the band's that sticks to get around and just, you just have a couple good ones. Yeah. You know, it sucks, dude. Yeah, that was a fucking muscle.

That's a muscle. And it took a long time to, you know, not tour like that anymore, you know. Now, you guys have a lot of shows, man.

So many shows. Yeah. Now it's like, which is what you got to do, you know, like you were the fucking it band, you know, like,

you got a fucking, that's the only way to do it. You got to fucking tour full time. And now, when we tour now, unfortunately, I don't remember Mitch. Now it's just, you're with each other, but now I'm making, make it a point to pull someone aside at some point. Someone like Mark or Dan, our new term, Ernie, Eddie, especially. Singers, I find him a little bit more to see how they're doing, see where their mind is. I tell them where my mind is for better or for worse.

I share the money issued. I share the bad news, as much as the good news, and took, you know, It took a long time to learn that. You know? It just sucks fucking. And it sucks. But it needs to happen for you to become like that person. You know, it sucks.

But my, my girlfriend told me that I, we, we, we've been dating for five years. She's, she's, she's fucking sick. She's like the best. She's, I call her the foundation of a suezzaance. Whenever I introduce her to people, that she's fucking sick. And, uh, she, she told me something when, when, uh, when this, that's awesome. When this first started, she told me something.

And I still try to wrap my head around it. But it's like, you started a band to prepare you for this. And it's been, it's just fucked up. You know, that's why I believe in God. Like, he has, he's fucking twisted, dude. Like, he fucking put me through the ringer. And now this is this why. But if I didn't go do that, this wouldn't exist.

Yeah. You know, and I have, I could talk to people like, it's like you, Rob, and like the younger bands, we've been having people. people here lately actually that that's not in here people that have dealt with passings and bands and I'm kind of only guy that could because I think I think respect with people it's always subconscious like you don't you don't talk about it there's just like when there's just like mutual understanding and it sucks that you know it sucks that is I'm not saying it sucks that that it had to be me but it just sucks that like that's what had to I don't know like blessing is

Chris who sucks yeah I mean when it's in a I haven't had I mean I've lost a band member but he wasn't a band member from for a long period of time my drummer my original drummer passed away but you know we hadn't spoken in a long time and he was kind of just doing his own thing he had gotten out of music and you know I had a lot of friends die you know like especially like during that burn my eyes writing period you know and it does it does affect you you know it affects you I can't imagine what it's like to have it in a band certainly like while you're with the band you know when you're still together but you know you know so i i

i often feel for you i feel you guys have really like you know it's tough because mitch was such a fucking icon i mean he was literally like he was the face of deathcore i mean like he was he was literally the poster boy him and ollie you know like the two that's it that cute tattooed guys and you know like fucking and it's like and then he passed and it's like Oh, wow, like it's hard to, you know, there was a time when I was telling Mark, because Mark was like, what should we do? And I was, I was saying that there was, you know, that band Joy Division, they had that famous song, Love will tear us apart.

Love, love will tear us apart. It's like a new wave song, very popular in the 80s. Anyway, their singer committed suicide. And it was hard, you know, it was terrible. It was, no, band was fucking devastated. They had just had this massive hit and this massive success. And they changed. They, you know, they made it, he was a pretty iconic dude, you know, like he was.

is kind of the face of the band as well. And they changed their name to, they started, they just said, okay, we can't do Joy Division anymore. We have to become New Order. And they became a new band, a totally new band. And one of the guys started singing. And then, you know, at first, like, their fans

didn't accept it. You know, like the Joy Division fans were like, no, like we want what, we want what once was. And they were like, well, you know, we can't we can't we can't we have to move on like we've got to do like we still want to make music we still have to do this and so they did it and in some ways it kind of became like a you know years later they ended up having success with like that song blue monday that you know orgy famously covered like not you know years later and you know they kind of had this second life because

of that and you know it allowed them to kind of distance themselves from the past but you know And it's like you never know what to do. Like who fucking knows what to do, you know? Like it's such a tough decision. And your guys were so young, you know, like even at that time, you guys were all still so fucking, yeah. I know, man. Like, it's crazy.

Like you, you don't, you don't know what's right. You don't know what's wrong. Like, you wanna pay your respects to him, but you still wanna make music and, you know, like. Yeah, it does. I don't know what, I don't know how to make right decisions, but what helps my process is, I know what I don't want to do.

And I know what the wrong thing to do is. So if I have a solid or I know I don't want to do this, I know this is not right, then I'm going to do this. That's always helped me. Well, you've made the right decision, man, you know, because you wanted to play music more. You know, you wanted to make music.

And as long as that's where it's coming from, it's real and it's authentic, and that's all that fucking matters. You know, and people are going to like it or people are going to hate it. And you just got to keep going, man. You just got to keep going. fucking going dude there's a there's a there's a I don't know what it is there's a magic just keep

going I want to quit the band so so many fucking times oh my god I want to quit the band I want to quit my band like every six months you know like but you know you just like I'm just like I'm just like and what are you going to do like fucking I'm pathetically unqualified to do anything else at this point like I'm just like doing this is 16 years old like I'm fucking you know like this is it Like this is it and I'm and I'm lucky enough that I'm and I'm still here and that anybody cares about my fucking band you know like This is not the typical arc of a band you know to have like this kind of you know Especially after our last record. We just had this huge Renaissance you know like it was this huge like people just fucking freaked out over the last record and just

Elevated the band to this other level again, you know and so grateful and fortunate to even be here and have people give a shit you know so you know like as long as that's where you're coming from you know that's that's the right that's the right decision you're gonna die the singer and guitar player of machine head

yeah yeah and that's I am and that and that's a fucking honor yeah and I'm dying the no matter what else I do this well I'm I'm gonna die the guitar player for Zah songs yeah that's just it and that's pretty sick it's pretty sick I'm pretty

a fucking stupid badass yeah I keep it's a life less ordinary it is man yeah we both have had roller coasters I guess you could say of a career you know and I keep telling people um it's funny when I when I have no money when I had no money this when I'm the happiest and I feel the most successful like all the all my guys they you know Eddie Mark DK and Ernie they respect me you know it's like that's you know I can't I can't fucking buy that when you have what do you mean when you have no money. Rob, I'm broke.

Okay. I'm fucking broke as shit, dude. Oh, shit. But I'm not... I thought you were talking about like the early days of suicide silence when... No, shit's a... It's kind of ties in with the podcast and all that stuff. Like a sacrifice a lot.

The band still continues, but I let... I let the go in a room and make people feel like I'm an idiot. But it's purposely done. And, yeah, I guess maybe that's why the band still here. Like, they see how much, I guess I'm not trying to pose, but I don't know, I've grown as a person, I guess, and I've done this, learning. It's directly, I flowed this knowledge into suicide sounds like directly. I've become addicted to knowledge because I want to play guitar. It's everything is about that.

Literally, whatever I got to do to play that and then support. the guys and make the right decisions but um yeah i mean the money's always tough in a band man it is that that that we've all been sold that that led zeppelin everybody's on private jets and fucking you know it's champagne and caviar and like it's it's it's i'm not going to say i haven't had that and you know but you know it's it's tough to make fucking it's tough to make a living being in a band. It's tough. It really is, man. Yeah, when you make a, especially in a metal band. Oh, dude. This isn't fucking the weekend. You know what I mean? Especially in metal, man. Yeah. And obviously, you know, I'm not, again, like I'm, I'm not, I say I'm

idiot, but I know I'm a highly intelligent person. Everything is done on purpose. Even if I see, oh, don't feel bad. I'm an idiot. Oh, course. If I, if I, if I, if I, if I am, like, people like put me on a pedestal. Like, don't put me on a pedestal, okay? Like, I'm a fucking idiot. Like, I was smoking meth like a few years ago. Like, fucking, like, don't. Like, the fuck do I know. Stop.

Stop listening to me for advice. Like, I can barely get my shit together. Like, I can't get your shit together. I feel it, dude. I, fuck what are you talking about? I fucking feel it, man. But it goes along with, with, with the music. I don't know where this comes from or where I got this from, but I will literally

purposely make a decision that will lose money with this and the band. But knowing. if we do this this is going to make us more money five years from now. For sure. So many decisions. Do so many decisions are like that. So many. Way more than people realize. It is fucking

the majority of decisions are that. That's it. Where you're investing in your future constantly, dude. And hoping that that pays off. I hope this pays off, baby. A lot of times they don't. You know, a lot of times

it don't. You just got to fucking roll with it man like you just fucking do it and it's like you know something something will happen in those moments though like even in those investing in the futures that don't pan out you learn something from them you always learn whether it's a failure or a success or whatever like you learn something from it and that's that's all it is even if it's just like even if it's just on a personal level you learn something from it you know what i mean like you don't know what it means and you know it's like what do they call it like you know the music business is a whole about the intangibles, the things that you can't see and that you don't know about, you know,

like, and hopefully the stars align and you hope that the stars align. And oftentimes, if you keep on, you know, it's like, it's going to happen one of these, you just keep on rolling that dice, motherfucker, like, it's going to happen one of these times. Keep rolling a dice, man. And I've learned also to make, to make decisions without ego. Yeah. That's also I think, kind of why the guys trust me, You know, everything's done for, purposely for the band and their well-being. And I think that's how, you know, it's how you can make, you know, anyone can keep a band-a-gated when there's money flowing, but when shit's going wrong, dude, like that's when everybody leaves you.

Yeah. When everybody turns on you when you're not cool anymore. Oh, dude. That's the hard part, man. And, you know, like, look at all the great bands. Like, you know, Judas Priest had a different singer for a while, you know, Iron Maidens had, what, four different singers? You know, they had Blaze Bailey.

they put three records out they were as uncool as uncool could be at that period you know and i'm not saying i didn't like it i'm not don't i love iron maiden all due respect to blaze bailey and and all of it i'm just saying at that point they were viewed as uncool and fucking now it's like nobody even talks about that era you know it's like people just fucking you know it comes back around and if it does if you keep fighting it'll it'll come back around you know yeah i definitely see the light at the end in the tunnel. Yeah, we've, we've gotten past the valley. And that's so we've gotten past the worst. And so now it's just, you know, sometimes, uh, I mean, sometimes it needs a restructuring anyway. Like, you know, you spend money. Like, sometimes you start spending money and you're like,

I don't even know why I'm spending all this money. This is crazy. What are we doing? Yeah, man. Yeah. But, you know, sometimes like things just take time. So now, so now you got past the valley. We're all well aware. But, okay, now you got to write a record. Now the record has to come out. Now it has to, so, so they all understand the worst is past, our guarantees are higher than ever for, for like these solo shows. So everyone kind of sees, like there's kind of like some like, oh, that's tangible. I see we were here, but now there's that and now. So now we're kind of at the point, like just kind of wait for the record to come out. And then let's be patient and continue to be ourselves.

It's like, is that what you were saying? you know don't fucking uh I know I like making decisions based uh from my integrity character that don't sacrifice my butthole

you know I don't fucking do any I don't do any no butthole sacrifice no dude I don't fucking go out there smooth rob I don't fucking I don't care I got my I'm 39 years old dude my my my bullshit meter dude is just

fucking it just it fucking it fucking it fucking lights off and I can't deal with it you got to work that into a lyric the sacrificial butthole man almost dude you have like these little moments where like you want to like sacrifice your character but uh i i could probably say that uh we've all

you know we've fucking stuck by our yeah i mean you got 50 people telling you to sacrifice your character after a while you're like oh maybe maybe it's not so bad like fucking bo da budda budda you know you hear that a hundred times and you're like oh i might do it yeah i mean i you know i definitely got caught up in that for a minute and And, you know, it's rough. Like you know, like I said, like I don't, you know, I don't know what I'm doing.

I'm just trying to write music. All I ever, all I ever wanted to do was just play guitar and write songs and sing. Oh, this back. And make motherfuckers circle pit and make motherfuckers jump and sing and fucking head bang and go crazy. Like that's all I've ever wanted to. I'm not a businessman. Like, I don't know what the fucking right decision is. I just know, like, what the music that I do and where it comes from.

And I do know that I'm really, really, really good at that. I know that. I'm not good at a lot. I'm not one of these guys who's good at a million fucking things. I'm not like, but I do know that I'm really, really good at that. And, you know, I just try and focus on that. And, you know, I got a good team of people that help me make decisions now. And, you know, I feel like we've all got a good head on our shoulders and what machine head needs to be.

And, you know, at this point, you know, we're not, you know, we're not the heaviest band. in the world. You know what I mean? Like we're heavy, but we've been around for 32 years and fucking, then motherfuckers like, you guys came along and Lauren ashore and the slaughtered revale and you're fucking 10 times heavier than we'll ever, ever, ever be.

You know what I mean? I can't sing like that. I don't even want to try to. It would be fucking ridiculous too. Yeah. You know, it would sound stupid for my fucking heavy metal Gandalf ass to be fucking trying to sing like that.

Yeah. You know, I just, you know, we found our lane and we're super lucky that we found our lane. and we fucking made that lane a little bit wider and a little bit wider so we can kind of go over here and do this and go over here and do this but at the end of the day it's like it's just

you know it's just being it's just machine head music that's what it is to me you know it's metal for sure 100% but you know like on the new record you know which I think we started to touch on a minute ago and then we kind of went off onto some other stuff here hey you invented the fucking sidebars

now I'm just all about sidebars now I did throw out a couple of sidebars Let's go. But, you know, like with this record, you know, like I think I was saying, like my, my last album was like a huge renaissance for the band. Like it just was fucking crazy. You know, we headlined hell fast. What number of record was that?

It was our 10th record. 10th. Okay. Double changes. It was a concept record. It was like, first time we ever did a concept record. Opening track is a 10 minute long song with, you know, it's nuts. And, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have been in this position a handful of times where

I now have to follow up this record that is so beloved by fans, by people, by, you know, it's incredibly successful, like elevates the band to another level. And in my experience, you know, everybody wants us to write another concept record, you know, like everybody is just like, you should just make another record like that one. And I'm like, you can't. Like you got to go. Yeah, you can't. Because it's never going to.

live up. Nothing's ever going to live up because that moment, you know, like for so many people, you know, like, Laura's always talked about this, you know, like the reason so many people love the black album. It's like they lost the virginity to the black album. Like nothing ever is ever going to top that. You know, like people lost their virginity to the locust or the blackening

or whatever. Like nothing's ever going to top that. Yeah, you can't top that. You know, that's just like life and stuff. And and, you know, so with this record, I really you know, I set some pretty strict parameters around what I could do. And I'm not a big believer in talking about the direction of a record.

Like I always feel like even if we have done it in the past, it never panned out. Like it didn't, you know, we go, oh, there's going to be the heaviest or the thrashiest or the whatever. And then it just, you just got to follow it to wherever it goes. It never works to yeah. It never does. It's just, it's, you know, music has to say. Yeah, it does. And so, but I did want to put some structure around it.

You know, I. I didn't want the last record had a bunch of long songs so I was like I don't want any song longer than four minutes on this record So that was one structure the other structure is huge Slayer fan to the death one of my you know one of my favorite bands life changing bands of all times And one of the most underrated Things about Slayer is their genius use of chord changes Chord Changes core changes fucking galore all over every song lead to have like three different chord changes in the lead section and it always like the way it sets up the chorus or whatever so i was like every song has to have a chord change outside of the typical structure that you would expect you know maybe it goes with the fourth fret maybe we just at some

point it's got to go to a key change that totally doesn't go with where the rest of the song went last thing is that the music the music in the last chorus had to be different from the music in the first chorus that maybe the drums drop out maybe the guitars drop out maybe that's where the key change happens, but something had to be dealt. Lyrics would always be the same, but you know, when at first it kind of took me a minute to kind of get into that like mindset, like wow, this is like a really challenging way to write, but it always just became about like trimming the fat,

trimming the fat, trim the fat, trim the fat, and you know, in the end, what it came up was with 10 songs plus two instrumentals, shortest, 41 minutes, shortest album in Machine Head history. And I'm really proud of this thing. I really feel like we got a fucking monster on our hands. Like, it's just really unique. And, you know, it's not our heaviest record.

I'm not, I would never say that it's our heaviest record. It's got a lot of melody. You know, the last song on the record is a, I'm a total sucker for the Elton John piano ballad. You know, like, I'm a total, like, I love Chris Stapleton. Like, I'm a fucking total sucker for like, you know, so, like, I'm adding, like, a ton of music. And that last song, Scorn is,

it's like I've been trying to write a piano ballad for four albums in a row now and I failed four albums in a row like I failed four times in a row and I can't force it dude and I finally nailed it with with this album I got a collaborator this guy Joel Lanasek I collaborated with um Jordan from bring me the horizon X bring me the horizon on this on the whole album he actually got a piece in record which was really cool added a really amazing element nice And, um, that me and, I got a few collaborators, like four guys that I work with, but me and this guy, Joel Wanasek finally like nailed down this piano thing. And, you know, I write most of my lyrics at three in the morning. And now, like I, I, every, every, for the last five albums, I, I, I write them all at three in the morning. What time do you wake up? So I, I usually go to bed about 11 and I can, I can never really sleep more than three or four hours. And I wake up at like two or three. Every single night. What?

No matter fucking what. I don't know why. What the fuck? This started happening like 20 years ago and I used to fight it and like lay in bed for two hours like fucking mad and fucking turn it and then I just get so aggravated. I couldn't go back to sleep. So after a while I just was like, fuck it. I'm just going to get up and I'll just play guitar.

I'll write or I'll answer emails or what if I go whatever. You know, like I don't, what I don't do is I don't turn on my phone. I don't ever look at my phone. I just look at emails. or whatever if I do work. And so, you know, I'd wake up every morning and just and write lyrics. And, you know, it's a good time, especially like when I, when my kids are, my kids are older now. Like my oldest is 20.

My youngest is 18. Okay. You know, about to, he's going to be graduating high school this year. And, but certainly when they were younger, it was really difficult to like get any time to write lyrics. And so this 3 a.m. thing kind of became like my, my, my, my, my, my quiet time it's the only time that I could really you know because it's either that or you're like feeding your kid or you're fucking taking him to soccer like you know you're a fucking Uber driver for your kids you know what I mean like and so I just rolled with it and now I that's it's the only time I write

lyrics it's literally the only time that I can focus and I and I even put like I kind of like because my life has no structure I'm in a fucking band like I can do whatever the fuck I want anytime I want you know what I mean like so I got to make but I have to make but I have to make a structure for myself. Yeah. And so I set the timer for 30 minutes and I sit there and I just write every morning at 3 a.m. And I just write and write and write and I don't care if it sucks or if it doesn't make any sense. I just try and write poetry and make rhymes and fine rhymes. And even if it's just I'm a little teapot short and stout, you know, like fucking I just keep to keep the flow going

nonstop for 30 minutes of writing. And then the next morning I'll get up and I'll read it and I'll kind go, eh, that was fucking dumb or whatever, but this one line is cool. And, uh, you know,

that, that piano song, you know, it was, it was the last song I wrote on the record. And, you know, I know,

I know, a lot of people think I'm like super, Mr. Libtard social justice warrior guy and what, that's just not me, but like, that's kind of just what the, you know,

people think and the haters think. And, you know, and, you know, I just started writing about, not that, but I just started writing about,

you know I don't believe in Trump but I think the fucking Democrats are a bunch of spineless fucking pussies and I don't believe in anything anymore I believe it I believe in myself and you know I just wrote all of these lyrics kind of in that mindset and you know the last line is no the wings of an angel the heart of a king the strength of a lion the power I bring I've lost faith in everyone follow no more my heroes have failed me they look down on me with their scorn

and so I took all of that and I just I was like I don't have any music like but I really like these lyrics and you know so I came in with Zach Zach's my engineer he's my producer he's fucking awesome he's amazing and I was like I just want to play you know I got my own studio I'm fortunate enough to have my own studio so I recorded most of the record at my own studio

Oh, wow. And I just picked up guitar and I just said, I'm gonna play like four chords here. I'm just gonna make this up as I go. I don't even know what I'm doing. I just wanna sing over this to something. Sure. And I did and I and I sang it and I sang it in two takes.

Like I just, I laid out all the lyrics that I had written that morning on like, I pulled up some shit on my computer. I got two binders of lyrics. You know, I wrote like three and a half binders of lyrics from this record alone, just three and a half binders. And I opened them up and I'm just like fucking, I feel like I'm rained

man like I'm over here like I'm like just connecting like lines that don't even like go with each other and I literally sang the song in two takes and like when I was done I was like that's that song's fucking done I was like that's and it's the last song on the record and then I was like I sent the chords to Joel and I was like hey like can you make this into like a piano like sad piano chords and put it together and kind of reverse engineered the rest of the song and it's really I got to say Chris I'm I'm so proud of this song it's a really like it's definitely like kind of the outlier of the record but I really just feel like it's a special song you know like and it's kind of something we've never done and you know when when you've been trying to do something for a long time 15 years I've been trying to write a fucking piano song yeah and it always just sounded like too like dorky and like a fucking you know no it was like I wish it was a coal play song like it's just like you know and just it didn't and you know i'm like sick and it happened and it just you know sometimes that you know that i'm a big i'm a big believer in that like first take magic you know like there's something about yeah not

knowing what you're fucking doing like you go to do a guitar solo and you're like i don't know what i'm doing i'm just gonna try like do some shit here and then you're like oh fuck killer you know like that's something and then you try and redo it and then it sucks like you can't recreate it again and so you know i'm a big proponent that lots of that all over this record you know like i said the demo basically turned into the album you know so like tons of vocals and then i sing it and then now i'm trying to learn now i'm like what the fuck like what i don't even remember what i played here now because i played it like i got to remember what i played yeah i see i i seen some people like film themselves Griffin oh yeah like while they're recording yeah oh okay that's a good idea so they like

they like see where they're at they're like huh i'm too lazy for that we'll see maybe yeah That's crazy. Was that the same technique that you learned from Ross? No. The fucking one take and it's done? Well, yeah. I mean, it's not always that. You know, like sometimes it takes a fucking 100 takes, right?

Like sometimes it takes 10 versions of lyrics that you throw away 10 versions of lyrics, you know, 10 full sets of lyrics. But with Ross, it definitely, you know, Ross definitely was a big, you know, big part of that for sure. just like teaching me that you know don't make it doesn't need to be perfect you know like I can sing something and even if it's a little out of tune I'm like auto tune that shit I don't fucking care like the emotions there like the crack in my voice the tone in my you know the fucking if I miss this one note I don't want to re-sing it 10 more times just to get something when you can like just go beat and I'm like it's I love it like fucking I'm not you know I love it yeah um when was the last time you spoke to Ross at that corn show

I went to we were talking about that corn show yeah yeah I saw him at the corn show yeah he's doing good fuck yeah it had been a it had been a minute though we we hadn't spoken for a long time yeah yeah yeah I mean he lives down here I was it there's not I know he's not any reason we would cross pass yeah how was it what yeah how was you giving give him a hug oh fuck yeah cool yeah no yeah we talked for it was we were hanging out I was hanging out with brian for a lot of the show and uh you know I was actually hanging out with Brian waiting for the They were getting ready to go on stage, and then Ross rolled up. And I was like, dude, oh my God, you know, like fucking.

So it was like, all of us were hugging like, oh, my God. You know, because a long time, man. It's a fucking lot of years. It's a long time. I mean, I knew the corn guys. I first saw corn opening for the deaf tones at a club called the Dragonfly club here in Los Angeles when I was mixing burn my eyes. And everybody was talking about corn.

And I already knew the deaf tones because, uh, We had just my friends had been playing with them and I knew who they were and I liked them. I had the demo and So yeah, they were the record wasn't even out. You know their record wasn't even I've seen them as a they were signed, but the record wasn't out. So it was 311 opening corn deaf tones at the Dragonfly and I didn't see the opening band so I want to say I want to say it was 311 could be wrong but it was corn supporting and then the deaf tones headlining this is this when Chino had like super long blonde dreads and fucking, yeah, I don't know if you're gonna, maybe, I'd be able to find it, yeah. It's a good show, though. Sick house show, dude.

And so, you know, I knew him for them. Then we did a, we did a show called, both of our records were out at this point, and there used to be a thing called Foundations Forum, which was kind of like a conference, like a music conference, and, like, labels would get there, and they'd have speakers and management. Like, I saw, like, Anthony Keitas from the Chili Peppers

do, like a speech. You know, like talking about music and just whatever. And we played that show together. Us and Korn played that show. So that was the first time that we played together. And then I saw him just a bunch of times after that. Like I saw him opening for sick of it all, like on their first,

one of their first tours. I saw them opening for House of Pain and Biohazard in New York a little later. And, you know, yeah. I mean, it was, you know, so like just, you know, getting to know those dudes and, you know, I actually people you know they they give me credit for this and I'm always like you know you know very humbled when they do but I I was the first person to ever get them played on MTV in Europe really so machine head headhead blew up they didn't have a they didn't have a record their record wasn't out in Europe like something was going on like it got delayed or whatever over there and I was loving the record and so I host a head bangers ball in in Europe and I'm like you guys got to check out this band They're from fucking Southern California. They're sick.

Like everybody here, you know, I play the blind video. And it fucking blows up. So then the label's like, oh my God, we got to get this record out now. Like Rob Flynn just played them and like, you know, kind of like launched their trip over there. Like John, you know, those guys are always super, you know, like, you know, I'm like always like stop. Like, you know, it wasn't that big of a deal. But they're like, no, you, if it wasn't for you, like we wouldn't even have a career over there. Like, you know, it's fucking, it's cool, man.

I heard a, yeah, because you guys popped off in Europe first. And I heard the same thing was for Quarons. I mean, it's made that that story kind of ties in. It's cool. Oh, yeah. Okay. Cool. It's rad.

Yeah. Well, Rob, I think we're approaching four hours. Holy shit. Are we really? Wow. I think. It was another heavy bangers ball. It wasn't this one.

Yeah. 97 was probably, was it earlier? This is 94. Yeah. This is in 94. I think of that. Ball, dude. Holy shit.

Look at that young man. What happened? I look in the mirror. I'm like, who's this old? guy. Dude, Rob, your luck,

your luck could be alive, brother. I am. I really am. I, dude. Yeah, looking at,

I really, really am. Doing research into your, uh, your life and, uh, especially pre pre-band.

I'm like, yeah, this should definitely not be here. Yeah. Should definitely, yeah, you should be. I've died a few times.

Yeah, you should be in jail or, or dead for sure. Yeah. Um, so. For sure. Anyway, what,

what is that luck? Luck or some? I don't know. Yeah Rob Any closing thoughts or Nothing Bucket Is this it?

I've never even seen that Is this shit? That's the foundation Is that you? Is that you? That's me in 94 Oh my God This is the show

I'm talking about We're corn played Yeah I don't know why biohazers There though Like they didn't play Or maybe they did play I have no idea

Look at Billy I've never seen this video before biohazard dude legends I loved biohazard dude those dudes were the best they are the best I fucking love every one of them those are some big earrings dude

yeah I did have the I was rocking the big earrings I had the nose ring going those are some fucking hoopers dude yeah it was the style at the time it was huh yeah it was the style at the time I mean I don't know I don't have just you know what

like super proud of you you're fucking kicking ass thank you're up you know you're gonna be broke and then the money will come back in I know like don't don't worry about that shit like thank you'll pull it together

this is amazing like you've really like leveled up like the podcast game like I'm very honored to be here you know like it's like my podcast was like so fucking rinky dink and like shot compared to this like

this is like professional it's fucking awesome you know so I'm super proud of you and congratulations man and thank you very much for for having me on here chris it was really awesome yeah thank you for your kind words rob um so uh where where can people find you guys uh yeah what do you want people to go oh yeah we're we're going on tour in april so record drops in april tour starts in april machine head and flames lacuna coil on earth all across sick north america yeah let's go i'll be there

of chicken beer the show dude do it rob love you brother thank you man oh you know what i got something for you okay I got something for you. Okay. Hold on that. You know, can you do me a favor and bring me that box over there? Yeah, because I wanted to know what was.

That's right. I don't forget. We were, it was such a good conversation. I totally forgot about it. You know, it's like, you know, sometimes you do an interview and like people don't know anything about you. And it sure you know. It fucking sucks.

All the time. That's one of reasons why this started. You blew my mind with like all these little details you brought up about my fucking life and shit. I was like, holy fuck. I'm honored, man. Anyway, I'm getting, I wanted to share this with you. Okay. I am getting ready.

Machine Head is getting ready to launch their own whiskey. Really? Yeah. Oh, shit. And I wanted to, we haven't announced it yet. We're going to announce it this next week. And I wanted to present this to you to have and to kind of help with the announce and present to the world as well. And so.

This is called... We're dropping a whiskey called... Here, here. This is for you. It's like Christmas for you. It's mine? Okay. Yeah, that's yours. That's going to be yours.

Let me open this shit, dude. Holy shit, it's a big ass box, dude. So it's called shotgun blast whiskey. You know, like Davidian, let Freedom Ring with a shotgun blast. Holy, this is like... What's in here? Yeah, so it's... This is the first edition of Shotgun Blast Whiskey

is going to come with two shotgun... shot off shotgun shaped bottles of a super premium 10 year age bourbon whiskey and a four year age bourbon whiskey that I was like a custom blend that I made with the guy and yeah dude

I'm so soaked on this it's sick dude I don't even how do you even like okay so there's a finger thing right there so yeah so it's two sawed off shotguns filled with this super premium whiskey and uh oh just a smell about the box is like hitting me wow this is this is

beautiful man this is fucking rob this is beautiful man so yeah it's like it's like your porn wow and then it comes with two shotgun shells for shot glasses okay that was that was my next question so these are these are shot glasses yeah those are shot glasses shotgun shell they're shotgun shells nice yeah dude so i'm really really really excited so i'm really excited excited about this I really think it's gonna be a cool thing for the fans and it's gonna be available we've actually just got distribution in Europe and Australia so it's gonna be available in America and a few weeks later it's gonna be available in Europe Australia and we're just you know like machine heads always been a big drinking

band and I think people know that and they come to the show to fucking party and rage and fucking head-banging circle pit and I'm just like this is just so like this is perfect for a band like ours. That's awesome, man. Well, Rob, yeah, I can, uh, congrats and, uh, thank you for the gift, man. Do you drink whiskey? Fuck yeah, I do.

Yeah? You want to do a shot? Yes. Let's do a shot. All right. Let's do it, man. Let's do a shot. I'd like to know what you think.

Please. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. How do you? How do you? How do you know what I'm doing right now? Okay. Am I, am I gonna fucking kill someone right now? Hold on. I really want to put the box right here.

All right. And, uh, okay. How does this thing open? You want to do the honors, Rob? No, you got to do the honors. I do. Okay. You got to do the honors.

It's your whiskey. Okay. Rob, I'm scared. That'll be. It's nighty proof, though. It is nighty proof. Okay. How much to, uh, here.

Is it like a full shot, you think? Sure. Yeah, let's do that. Because I like full shots, dude. Let's do it. You like strong coffee. and full shots. All right, how do you,

get the cat back? Teamwork makes a dream work. Teamwork, it can make the dream work. That's right, I just, just sing a Morgan Wallin post Malone song. Suck on that. Rob, thank you for your time, man, honor man. Hell yeah, brother.

Cheers, dude. Woo, yow. There we go. Smooth. Yeah. Scary. Yeah. Woo.

Man, I'm like, I'm in the band now. I'm in the band. Holy shit. That's badass. Right on. Hey, man. Is that, is that, is that, is that it? I think that's it.

That's it. All right, everyone. All right, later. That's awesome. He's out, everybody. Later, close it. It's awesome. He's out, everybody.

Oh, Rob, God. Oh, awesome. That's cool. It's good. Wow. Really good. Yeah, man, there's a lot of reaching your life, and I'm surprised you're a lie, brother. Yeah.

I might make a good book one day. Oh, dude. Wow, dude, this is fucking crazy. Right? Dude, I'm so used. That's nice. It's crazy how it even happened. You know, like, I can't believe I'm fucking putting out of whiskey.

And, like, something that actually, like, goes with the band. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't want to just stick my name on a bottle. I didn't want to just Man it says for batch one Yeah I need proof man

Yeah they're fucking around It's good though It fits you man It's cool Yeah thank you Two more things I want you to sign this Sick This is the think

I'm not sure if you've seen Another fourth thing We have three more out in the front This is gonna be our fourth one Great You guys got barns right there You Fogg

Adam B Who Who Fuck everybody dude but he could suck it dude you get the logo see my life is really crazy thanks rob you're welcome this is like a new to air man this this one alone when that come in the mail did you like just get it or what um yeah they just came in like about a week ago and the first thing that i was doing down here for the first

Friday and saturday i was just doing photo shoots and video shoot like i'm making a commercial so just like presenting it I just need content for the website and the social and all that stuff so I just took I hooked up with Travis shit and we went out to the desert and fucking just you know fucking blu shit up with looking out there

what you happen yeah that was just like yeah it was killer