Garza Podcast - 175 - MELVINS | Buzz Osborne: How to Always Write Riffs, Marriage & Finding Truth

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Garza sits down in-person with Buzz Osborne of American rock band Melvins. New album “Thunderball” out now! https://melvins.comSPONSORS: Garza Podcast Coffee https://garzapodcastcoffee.com00:00 - 30 Year Marriage07:24 - Finding Right Partner10:49 - Golf19:52 - Wayne Gretzky21:00 - Garza Trys Out For Golf Team23:51 - John Daly25:25 - Making A Living With Music30:25 - Thunderball32:55 - Two Live Drummers37:46 - Andy Warhol41:00 - Social Distortion Iconic Logo44:45 - Photography47:58 - Jack Russell Dogs53:15 - Montesano56:06 - Sex Pistols & David Bowie1:00:56 - Bullhead & Lysol1:02:14 - First Check1:04:27 - Being Asked To Join Nirvana?1:09:45 - How To Find Truth1:11:45 - Most Stuff About Nirvana Isn’t True1:15:40 - Hair Style1:16:45 - Houdini, Kurt Cobain & GGGarth Richardson1:19:03 - Bad Brains: ROIR1:20:01 - Pink Floyd: The Dark Side Of The Moon1:20:46 - Amy Winehouse1:23:05 - Greatest Heavy Metal Record1:24:09 - Peter Green1:25:55 - Kirk Hammet & $2,000,000 Guitar1:28:09 - Pete Townshend, The Who & Woodstock1:31:31 - Weird Tunings1:32:52 - Ted Falconi1:35:00 - Gang Of Four: Paralyzed1:37:15 - James Bond

You've been married over 30 years. 31 years, yeah. 31 years. Yeah. So the same woman. Same. That's a very important fact. It's about 28 and a half years longer than most rock and roll marriages.

All right. You're right. What's the average marriage for someone that's in a band? About a year and a half, two years. Probably, yeah. I mean, I mean, you probably seen so many like divorces. I've seen come and go. Divorque.

Divorque. here, gone, wives, multiple wives. Oh, yeah. That's not for me. I know. Buzz. I like being married. It's good.

Buzz from the Melvitz. Thank you for being here. I'm honored. Thank you. We're rolling? Yeah, chugging. Okay. Cool.

Awesome. So I guess another follow-up question is, how do you do that? Do what? Marriage? Yeah, how do you stay married for? So for you, it's probably okay, she can sit through all these John Houston movies with you.

Mostly. That's probably how you knew, right? There's a wide variety of things. I mean, you know, when you, women that are willing to put up with what I do for a living in me, myself, they don't grow on trees. So you find one that's willing to do that. You probably should make it work if you're interested in being married at all. Yeah.

I am. It's the only time I've ever been married and same with my wife, so it's good. So far so good. I mean, you know, you don't live in each other's pockets. I was very attracted to the idea that she had her own life and didn't need me at all. So that was good. So both of you were like independent? Yeah.

She's very independent and strong and that's what I like. So it's good. I mean, you know, we depend on each other for lots of stuff. But I think that, you know, I mean, when I'm, you know, I mean, when I'm, you know, It just, you know, relationships are give and take, but in order to make it work long term, you have to kind of just be willing to roll the punches, whatever it is, and understand that you have something that's really good and that you don't want to ruin it. Don't do anything that's going to be a divorceable offense.

Yeah. It's like, I don't, you know, I'm not interested in looking further. I don't think the grass is greener. I don't. It's not. It's not greener. It's just different. And people think it's greener, right? Yeah, no interest in that.

Not at all. So I like being where I'm at, what I'm doing, who I'm with. All those things, I think, amount to a lot to me. And I take it very seriously and I'm very interested in it, you know, and how it lays out and how it changes. And, you know, I mean, the pandemic was the longest period of time that we'd ever spent together unbroken. because I always went on tour. Oh, yeah. So it was like two years we were together, and we realized in that two years,

oh, we get along really great. After what, I think what you're probably married that point? 28 years. 28 years. I was like, yeah, we get along great. No problem at all. So it was a, we enjoy each other's company, and it's fun, and we both have really super dark senses of humor.

Yeah. How did you guys meet? Mutual friends. Okay. Yeah. So I think the sense. of humor is a good one. It's a big part of it.

And a lot of it is not necessarily PC humor. Yeah. What that's, what, what buzz? But it's called humor. That's the best humor, though. Yeah, I think. If you want to get any. It doesn't bother me, you know.

If you want to get any point across, when you put in a little humor, dude, that's what opens people up, you know? Yeah. So we can laugh at, you know. You're laughing at anything. Kids getting hurt in movies and stuff like that. Okay, so what are the, okay, so I've been with my girlfriend for five years.

Solid amount of time. Solid, you know, I think five years is a nice, okay, this is like a real relationship. So what's like the, you know, obviously, you know, I want a future. You know, I want to be married and kids. But what's, what have you seen? on out on the road okay this this is what broke up that couple what's like what's like the what's the don'ts uh drugs alcohol um infidelity those things top three is it yep um there's a good thing that bakowski said in a barfly you know when i drink i move in the wrong direction oh wow that's that's a

scene yeah so you know i mean i think jim morrison said it too he goes every time you take a drink you never know where you're going to end up you know each drink add to that. So, you know, you might make the wrong decisions along those lines. Yeah. But whatever. I mean, ultimately, I think people can do whatever they want to. It doesn't matter me. Yeah. But when it comes to that kind of stuff in my own life, I'm very old-fashioned. Yeah. And you... Like traditional values at home and, you know, I really believe in the commitment and... Commitment. ...honoring, you know, the relationship and, you know, all those kinds of things.

And you stopped, when did you stop drinking? Oh, I haven't done anything like that in 30 plus years. Yeah, so that's a big one. Yeah, but I mean, I had a girlfriend before that for seven years. That was probably a disaster. Yeah, but I mean, but I was like, at the end of that. Your copy? Thanks, man.

At the end of that, I was like, I'm going to be single for a while. I don't know. I'm not going to. I don't want to do it. I don't want to be around. And then within nine months, I was married. Nine months? You serious?

Nine months later it was married. So I wasn't looking for it at all. So you said it in your head, okay, this is what it was. If you want any coffee, no, boom. You don't want to get, no, coffee, I'll go crazy. Yeah, dude, Buzz, we want you to go crazy here, dude. No, I'm not crazy. I'm drinking any caffeine.

Nothing. Okay, so. Can't handle it. So previous relationship was that she got the alcohol version of Buzz, right? To some degree, but I mean, that wasn't what. the problem was, you know, I mean, uh, um, but I was not, not interested in a looking for a girlfriend or being in a relationship at all. So that was a, my headspace. And okay. And then I ended up married within nine months. So it was not part of the plan. But when something falls in your lap,

that's that obvious, you should probably be wise enough to pick it up, you know? Yeah. What you, what, you probably had the first date and like, this, You know, I can see myself getting married to this person. I need really quickly. You know, really quickly. It's hard to put in, buzz, it's hard to put into words. Like when you have, like, the first date or at least first couple dates, you just know. And you can't put words, what do you know?

You just know. Well, one thing I liked was she had a job. Okay. A job. Okay. Broke chicks are the easiest ones to get. I never thought about it that way. You want to find somebody who's got a job.

J.O.B. doesn't need you. Yeah. She's on our own, does her own thing, you know. And then, you know, and sometimes that job can be somebody wants to be a mom or something like that, you know. Yeah. And that's fine. Those are totally honorable things to do.

We never wanted to have kids, but find a woman that has a job. That's a, to me, if you're unemployed, it's a, that's in the no column. Especially when there's no kids involved. No, yeah, you've got to have a job. Yeah. I'm not running a welfare office over here. Yeah, because. Because, yeah, I can send them, then they'll just beat home and, like, what's, what's Buzz doing, you know, and just freaking being pissed.

I just can't stand that. I could never, I could never stand that. Yeah. I can't trust you. I don't want to be in the relationship. So I have to think about things along those lines. I don't even want to do it. Never.

So. So by the time you're married, you're already sober. Yeah, I hadn't drank in a long time. So, you know. Yeah. I mean, I, I've done all that kind of stuff, but I just, it's not right for me, you know. Eventually, for alcohol, it's like if I drink two, I'll drink 20. Yeah, because you were...

I know me. Yeah. I know me. Yeah. If I drank, I break out in felonies. Yeah, because you mentioned that you're a violent drunk. Like, you know, mischievous. That's a good way.

Okay. I don't even know. I'm moving the wrong direction. You know? Yeah. Just like Pekowski. Moving the wrong direction. I think that was a line he wrote for, Fay Dunaway said that in the Barfly movie.

I don't know if you've seen Barfly. No, I haven't. I've got to see it. But I've been hearing about it. Barfly's amazing. And then it's funny. It's tragic but really funny. I think most of Bikowski stuff is tragic but really funny too.

Did you ever try his writing process or no? What do you mean? Like when he, because he said like to write, he had to like do all these things before he even sat down and started to write, correct? Yeah, I'm sure. You have to do it. it, you have to make yourself do it. Yeah. You know, that's a thing.

I mean, it doesn't, writing's not easy. Nothing, nothing, nothing that's worth something is easy to do. No. You know, whether it's writing music or writing books or making movies or doing this podcast. No. It's not easy. Yeah.

Would you call this easy? No, it's extremely difficult. Setting everything up, getting everything going, planning everything, making sure it's working. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a pain in the ass. It's a big pain in the ass. Yeah, right.

But, but you still do it though. You still do it. Why? If it was easy, everybody would do it, and it wouldn't be worth anything. Yeah. Right. Tom Hanks says that in Allegra of their own. I've seen that movie?

No. You never seen that movie? Or you got to see it. Yeah. Tom Hanks, Rosie O'Donnell. It's an amazing movie. Is that the baseball one? Yeah, yeah.

I never saw it, no. It's like, it's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. That's it. Yeah. Especially pro sports. I mean, I think, you know, kids should be involved in stuff like that.

I think sports are great things for kids to do. I love playing sports. I just didn't like the people that played sports. Yeah. I still like playing sports. Yeah. Love it. You got into golf what, like, 15 years ago?

Yeah, roughly. Oh, nice. How do you get into golfing? Some rock and roll friends that I knew were doing it and invited me along. And then they all have since pretty much quit because it wasn't easy right away. And I just continued playing. And now I play as much as I can when I'm, well, when I'm on tour or I don't play.

So half the year I don't play at all. Yeah. So then when you get back, you play really badly. Yeah. And then you get back to a certain level that I feel pretty satisfied with. My God. And then... It's sick, Buzz.

Oh, yeah. That was accidental right there. Is it? That was, yeah. I just happened to be at the course. And it was a short part three course. It's not there anymore in L.A. And I got paired up with him.

Believe it or not. And he goes, let's get a picture. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Kicked his ass, too. Did you? Oh, yeah.

Who is that? I can see it. That's Fred Durst. Is Fred Durst? I'm like, is that Fred Durst? Yeah. So what, you got, you got randomly paired? Yes.

Randomly. I don't know Fred Durst at all. Oh, my goodness. There's no idea who he is. I didn't even know he, he played golf. I didn't, I don't think he plays much. I could tell by the way he played. You're fucking kicking his ass.

I think, you know, it's a short course. Oh, that's the last part. That's the last hole in one I had. You had a whole. hole in one? I've had nine hole in one. Nine, yep, nine hole in one. Yeah. That's the last one. That was the longest one.

I had 170 yards at Roosevelt in LA. What is that, for you, what is that like a five iron? I don't remember what I hit. Five iron. Do you golf? Yes. Oh. I've been golfing since I was in diapers.

What's your handicap? It's bad. Let's see. I'll shoot like a mid-90s. That's better than most people. What was that 20-something? Yeah, roughly. 18, 19. Yeah.

18, yeah. I'm about an eight or nine. You're an eight handicapped, dude? Roughly, yeah. Oh, my. It fluctuates between eight and ten. I get back from two or my handicap goes up because I'm playing like crap. Roughly, you know. I've had it down to as low as like six, you know, but then it goes back up to it.

Because it's definitely not like riding a bike. No, it's not. Like, I'm not going to play again until June. And so when I get back, It's just going to be shit. I'm going to play like shit, you know. Hey, Buzz, that's a... Yep.

That's a decent swing. That's not bad. It's a decent. I'm playing better now than I ever have, so... There's a few things I don't like about that swing. I like that throw better. That's the thing you do right there. Now, see, I'm swaying too much.

I don't like the sway. You know what? I've been... You learn a lot about your... swing when you actually film it because you don't want to know when you're actually swinging it just feels good but then someone films you're like oh shit that's I could approve that and prove that that's that's fucking ugly

yeah what I realized pretty quickly was that uh um the drive is uh um just the beginning of the nightmare yeah you know how far how far is your drive somewhere between 250 250 and 300 you know Three, so, so, so, so you hit the three. I have, yeah. I can't.

Two, 90, you know, it's a good drive for me. That's a, that's a, a, a well above. You know, if I could put a 250 drive where I want it, and I'm really happy with that. I mean, look, on any given, any given game of golf, you'll only use your driver 14 times at a 72 shots. I never thought about that way. It's not much. They give you two puts on every single par. You know, every single hole, they give you two putts.

telling you that's the hardest thing to do because they don't give you two of anything else. Oh yeah. It's, it's, it's, if you're talking like a part four, get there in four, so that that's one drive, hopefully one shot on the green. That's what they expect you to do. That's what they give you two putts on every single hole. Yeah. So part three, they expect you to put it on the green and putt twice for par.

So they're telling you putting is harder than anything else because they give you two. I never thought about it that way. Right. So that's once I started thinking about the game in that long, long, low. lines backwards because you'll only touch your driver maximum 14 times that's it yeah out of par for putting is 36 if you do two every single hole it's 36 that's oh wow so if you can shoot if you can get your putting the not three putt and then get your putting down into the 20s you'll have way better rounds that means you're

getting up and down with one putts a lot oh wow if you can't do that, you're never, ever going to play good. It's true. No way. I heard Gary Player say this thing. We said, if he takes an 18 handicap, a guy who's an 18 handicap and he lets

that guy hit his first two drives, the first two shots, and then Gary Player takes over, that guy immediately becomes a six handicap because of Gary's short game. But if they take Gary's first two shots,

then the 18 handicap takes over, he remains an 18 handicap. Oh my goodness, dude. So it's all about the short, it's all about inside 150, you know? Dude, all those golf cliches are real, man. Oh, you got to practice your short game, practice your chipping and putting. Chipping, putting, driving in that order. But the ego is like, oh, you got to practice your drive. Well, yeah, but you have to hit a decent drive, but you can hit.

I beat guys out drive me by 60 yards all over. time because they don't screw up once they get around the green yeah um if you three putt every grain i don't care if you hit it 400 yards i'm three putting most most then you're you're never ever going to do better if you just concerted on not three putting your handicap will go down faster than anything else clearly you know i don't know why people don't if you can just if you work on within inside of six feet yeah just practice inside of six feet those are the hardest putts dude because because that's where you're going to practice Insights from six feet in.

Okay. You know, there's no way your handicap's not going to go down. There's no chance. It has to. If you practice that, nobody ever practices it. Driving range will be full. Nobody's practicing somebody. Nobody.

That is true. Just looking at the driving range, as people practicing, and then you look at the putting grain, no one's really on there. Nobody, two guys, one guy. Oh, you have the whole thing to yourself. You know, so if you hit 100 balls at the range,

you should do 100 puts. you go over and do 100 putts. Dude, you're kind of blowing my mind now. 100 balls, 100 puts. I've been doing his practice my whole life. And chipping. Go over and hit, you know, if you hit 100 balls in the range, I would say, well, at that course where I played with Fred Durs, that was a part three course, it's gone now.

It was in Hollywood or in the valley. Yeah, those are rare courses. Gone. They're all short. All short, yeah. That's where I learned to golf was that place. But there was a guy there who was who he would live. in there there and he was practicing.

He was trying to get his tour card. So he would go over there and hit balls sometimes because it was really close to his. And he said that if he hit 100 balls, I got to talk. I'd see him there, you know, when I'd go there and I talk to him. And I don't know whatever happened to him. But he said if he hit 100 balls, 80 of them were inside 150 yards shots. He'd do five or six, seven drives maybe, hit the street wood a few times. but 80% of it was inside 150 yards.

Wow. That's what he's practicing. 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, you know? He goes, that's how I'm not going to do with the driver. Did he ever get his... I don't know. I don't know what ever happened to him. Oh, shit.

I don't even know how close he was, but he was really good, and I would watch him practice, and he would talk about, you know, what are you doing? He goes, oh, man, 80% of what I do is inside 150 yards. So... There it is. All those guys can hit the... driver really well.

All of them, all the pros. Yeah. Pretty well, you know. But the guy who has the lowest, I think it's a, the lowest score ever is a, isn't it Jim Furek? Jim Furek. Jim Furek. Jim Furek.

And his drive was maybe 270. Max. His drive is only 270? Max. Not even 300. Yeah, the lowest score is. Ever. 58.

58. Okay. 12 under on a par 70. 12 under on a par 70. That's amazing. Jim Fierrick. insane. He's a legend, dude.

Did not have a 300-yard drive. And he made millions and millions and millions of dollars playing golf. Couldn't hit the ball 300 yards. Well, there you go. You're kind of blowing my mind right now, man. Well, I mean, you know, it's just a, what's the point of, it's like I saw this thing with Wayne Gretzky. Yeah. And he goes, hockey's about having the puck.

It's not about playing defense. If I have the puck, you can't score. It's great. He goes, I couldn't play defense. If I had the puck, you can't score. So it's like in golf, it's like there's, it's about getting it in the hole as fast as, you know, as few shots as possible. It doesn't say how you do it.

If you're on a 500 yard par five, if you hit 420 yard shots, you're putting for par, you know. Yeah. 125 yards, you know. It's like, you know, if you hit 125, 125, 125, 125, you're on. You're on. You're on. You're on. Pudding for par.

Holy crap. I remember who was it I might butcher his name David Duval he was the other golfer I was he was the one golfer I watched it was all he might shoot under 60 yeah that's amazing yeah what was it David Deval that was that was that was that was yeah I don't really follow golf so no yeah it's been a little bit I either wanted I buzz I either wanted to play guitar luckily that that worked out but I tried out for the golf team and I I I it was a weird scene so yeah this was high school yeah I walked away from sports in junior high because I couldn't stand the people that played sports that was

the thing but golf is a solitary thing you don't need it's not a team sport yeah yeah you do it on your own yeah fuck everybody dude you're quiet you're out there you're concentrating the whole time it's three hours you're walking I love it it's my favorite thing obsessed with it when I'm not playing music so I mean it's a good thing for me music you are people of the great indoors, you know? So it's a perfect thing for me to do. And, like, I'll just go over. And I don't care about the courses.

I mean, I play, I play munis mostly and just stuff like that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't want to belong to a country club. I hate those people, you know? Love the courses, but I hate the people. Yeah. I don't want anything to do with them, you know? Yeah.

It sucks because I hate it when you get, because I just want to either play by myself or play with my dad. And but they always pair you up with, like, other, like, twosom or something. I love doing that. Oh, you do? People I don't know. Oh, shit.

I hate it. Just flip them out. They just, who's this freak, you know? And then you start kicking their ass out there, and then they shut up after about three holes. Nice, dude. Nice. So I'll just go to the course and just go, put me with anybody, you know?

I don't care. So that's like your main hobby, right? Yeah, I have a lot of hobbies, but that in photography are my two main ones. Oh, really? Yeah. But, you know, it's, you know, it's a big. Like getting musicians, like I said, they're people that grade indoors,

getting them outside, doing something like that where it's not tennis, where you have to have somebody else. I can just go do it whenever I want. If you just go as a single, you can get on almost any course, anytime, you know? Yeah. I don't want to have to rely on somebody else.

If I want to go play golf, I can go play golf, I can go play golf, you know? Just go to the course. I almost never make a tea time. Just show up. To show up. Who can I go? with you know like whoever you know you might and then some my buddies make tea times on the weekends

you know and then um i'll play with them you know but uh i never make a tea time because i can never find people you know i don't want to rely on you know i move four spots and then you have to fill it we have to pay for it fuck that i don't want to do it and people flake out and people always freak out i don't want to do it so yeah um um but i love it i love playing it um when you're doing it you're not thinking of anything else. I don't consider it like a, you know, people go out there. It's like, you know, you're hanging out and drinking and all the people are doing all this crazy stuff, which is fine.

People want to do that, but that's not what I'm thinking about, you know? Yeah, just being, just like, I'm going to pretend I'm John Daley. John Daly is really good. He was. He was. He's an amazing player. Yeah. Just get fucked up. I saw this thing.

I saw this thing with him where they were like, what's your advice for guys who want to go, you know, guys trying to come up and be a pro? and he said don't miss a three foot pot because if you miss three foot pots you're never going to make it not about hitting the not about hitting the 360 year drive yeah he goes don't miss a three foot pot you can't miss a three foot pot if you're pro if you want to be pro you can't miss a three foot put that's kind of exact opposite of what people would think you know

it is I mean I literally I've been I'm 39 now and I haven't thought about like the golf in that way ever so now you kind of flip my brain That kind of goes in line with what you mentioned, because people ask you like the cliche question, you know, or you have any advice for upcoming bands or all that question. But then you kind of said like you compared it to the lottery, right? I can't remember what I think. It might be true.

I mean, a lot of times you get my quotes wrong in line. I think you said to have a chance to play music, at least in the lottery, like you have a chance. At least in the lottery, you have a chance. Yeah, it was like come like, Like in the line with that. Yeah, almost no chance. It's almost no chance, too.

Yeah, I would say. Mm-hmm. That's the truth. You work really hard on it, but I mean, I don't know. You know, once I got to a point, it's in the late 80s where I realized I could make a living playing music, and that's, and I tried to do that as hard as I could, you know. You never look back? No, not really. Because you started playing guitar when you were 18, so kind of later, right?

Yeah, later than most people. Yeah. But it took a long. time you know seven years or something from eight years from the time I started to where I was making a live and play music seven years pretty standard something like that yeah going hard too yeah well once I got to that point I was like okay I'm gonna try to make this work so far so good it's like okay well all right I'm 18 I'm gonna play music I I just heard the sex pistols and flipper and I want to do this I just apply I just apply for a job that

McDonald's and they both said no. So I guess I'm just going to. I always worked. I always had some kind of job. Yeah. I never had, my parents never had any money. So it was like if I wanted money,

I had to earn. I think teenagers should work. Yeah. I think. Why wouldn't you want to work? I worked the whole time I went to high school, you know? Did you really apply for McDonald's and Burger King? And then you got, you got nothing.

No, neither. But I always had other jobs. I worked at grocery stores and restaurants. The last job I had was a pizza, place in San Francisco, you know? But I always figure, why would you ever be broke? You just go get a shitty job. Take any job, you know?

There was a day in San Francisco when I moved to San Francisco at about $600 in my pocket, and the day came relatively quickly when I was like, I have to have a job today. Because I'm going to be broke. I'm not going to be able to pay rent. I'm not going to be able to do anything. So I'm going out and I'm taking the first job that comes across, that come across. I don't care what is. It is.

Wow. You know, and so I, I, I, I, walk the streets in San Francisco and found a job at Mrs. Fields cookies. Mrs. Fields, they had great cookies, man. Oh, they're too sweet. But, uh, I worked there for eight weeks, and that was, that saved my ass, you know. I would have been, I don't know what I would have done. Yeah.

That saved my ass. How old were you when you moved Idaho, Washington to early 20s? Early 20s. I just went and took the job Take the job I don't give a shit Why did you move Because isn't a flipper

From San Francisco Yeah I didn't really want to live in Seattle And I had a girl My girlfriend at the time lived in San Francisco So I was like I'm gonna move down there Oh

That was it It's always It's always we're female Yeah Well that was a big part of it But But But I didn't want to

in the northwest you know anyway so it was it was like kind of an excuse to just go and so we went down there and started over me and dill and um yeah and then um it worked out relatively quickly you know relatively but we just got crappy jobs there too you know pizza place just stupid shit you can make money for it i mean i just don't understand why you wouldn't work of course take any job we're lazy sometimes dude fuck that this is that's insane i always say a dishwasher for a while and I will work Friday and Saturday nights and the people I was working with were always try to rush it so they go out going to party and I try to do it really slow my hey we can say here along and get paid extra hour or two and everyone just they just wanted to rush it

but I want to make sure the floor is perfect and like yeah I kind of took that and put it in into music just work your ass off I always thought if I'm at work I should work just do work. That's what I do, you know. Yeah. I'm getting paid to work. I'm going to work. It's never goalbreaking or anything like that.

I just did my job and did as many hours as I could. I was, I think the last round of where I was working about 60 plus hours a week, you know, at the pizza place. And playing music. Someone's full time. Over full time. 40 hours a week is full time. Oh, yeah. Holy shit.

20 hours a week more than that, yeah. 23, 24 days in a row and stuff like that, you know. So you were either working or ripping? Yep. Constant. That was your life. Go from work straight to rehearsal,

wake up and go to work again. It's okay. Every day? Yeah, pretty much. We didn't have anything else to do. You did your job, now go play music, and then see what happens. I work on it all the time.

I still do. It's just I don't have a regular job. I still work on music all the time. Never stop. Like I record riffs on my phone. I was looking at the other day. Like right now at this point, I have almost 700 riffs on my phone.

Nice. New ones. Not all of them are good, you know. But you record maybe something you'll think of something. Yeah. But if I pick up a guitar, I'm always thinking in terms of playing, um,

um, writing songs. Always. Yeah, I heard, uh, I heard Dale talk about how you, you always have songs.

You were never a guy that had a virus block. Like you always have songs and you always have records. Yep, always. I've got a new record now coming out soon called a Thunderball with the original drummer, Mike Dillard. We did, we've done two albums. That's it right there, Thunderbush. We've released two songs so far. My favorite of the two is Victory of the Pyramids.

But my favorite on the album is a song called Venus Blood. But Venus blood Yeah Hell yeah It sounds like penis blood It's actually Venus blood

It's actually Venus blood The The Pyramids is the first one He did That's about a nine-minute song Nine-minute song About Yeah roughly

And then Venus Blood That was probably my favorite But I play bass and guitar And sing on it The whole thing And then

Mike Diller The original drummer plays drums But he can't He can't be a band member Because he's Family man Back in

The town we grew up in And is a union machinist and so we were we did this um that's a third record we've done together where uh um we we did a record released at 19 this thing called um mangled demos from 1983 yeah and so we well let's do some show let's you know play a few shows yeah line up his vacation time play a few shows opening for the melvins and so while we were rehearsing that stuff the early stuff he goes why don't we write some new songs i was like oh okay i didn't think of that you know and um and so uh cassette tape dude it's sick i can't read what it's uh rabbits rabbits rabbits for

revenge yeah some of those said some of those ended up on records a lot most of those snake appeal yeah most of those ended up on records set me straight most of that i don't even know what it is but um so i started writing songs he's not he's not like good at the really off time stuff. So I wrote songs that he could do. I intentionally wrote songs I knew he could play. Oh, wow, yeah.

So that was fun, fun challenge. So that's the third one. And I'm working on a new album now. We're recorded at the end of the year. New one. We're back down on this tour. Last night was the first night on the Melvin's Napalm Death Tour

with the weed eater opening. There it is. Sold out. Yeah, last night in San Diego. Oh, nice. But I'm working out. We have a Cody Willis. We played with him for a while with two drummers. Dude, I was going to ask you about that.

Yeah, we got him back in the band. So we're going to do a new album by the end of the year with two drummers again. So looking forward to that. I was watching a video of you guys play with two drummers live. Yeah, that's great. Is it? Really love it. Oh, my God.

It sounds like a nightmare. Oh, no, no. They're good players, so it's good to do. Yeah, because with drums, like, every hit has to be perfect. Worth the sound. Yeah, well, they can pull it off. It's worth a challenge that they are doing something. I don't know where that is.

Oh, that's in Fresno. I think it's in Fresno. See, I'm not sure where that is. Yeah, Fresno. Yeah. That was Cody, yeah. Cody's really good. That's sound check, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, this is Evil New War God. I wrote this song, and I was like, I want to do have this, this guitar break and then have drum solos between you know oh my goodness yeah wow and and cody's left-handed so they play they play into each other oh yeah that's pretty funny that song's fun to play it's kind of like it yeah see they each have their own little solos so you thought about having a drum solo with two separate drummers oh yeah and then you're a psycho dude that's

it has a breaks in between it's like one two three three three three three three and you're a one two three one, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one. You know, you have to remember. But I love that kind of stuff. That's cool. Practicing and figuring out how to do it and, you know, playing with guys that are good. That's always fun.

That's its rehearsal, yeah. Yeah, I heard you talk about when you write riffs, it doesn't matter if it's even necessarily that good because you think about it in the context of the band. Yeah, how it will work. How would you do this? How would I make this work? I know it's kind of good, but how would I make it better?

I've written and recorded hundreds and hundreds of songs, so the whole idea is just trying to come up with something I haven't really thought of before. Yeah. Yeah, how do you make an interesting riff sound interesting? Yeah. It's always a challenge. But I mean, you know, it's a...

What's the big? It's what I do. I mean, I play music. So writing music and playing live seems like, I don't want to take a two-year break. I hated the pandemic. I mean, I liked hanging out with my wife. That was fun, but as far as like work,

I don't even want to think about how much work I lost in that. It's fucking totally ridiculous. I don't want to do that. I know people, we're going to take a break. What are you fucking talking about a break? How do you take a break from your life, you know? Yeah. I said, what's you fucking talking about?

My break is staying home and playing golf. You know, that's a break. I don't want to go anywhere. I'm gone all the time, you know. And that's like, you know, a couple days or a week, and then you're kind of done. All right, let's go back out. Well, you know, we'll do 80 to 120 shows a year

and record albums in the meantime, you know. So that takes significant amount, three to five months of the year. How many records are you guys in now? I don't know, 30 something. 30 something. Depending on what you consider an album, you know, people, some people go,

well, you have this many albums. I go, well, take your word for it. I guess you know, you know. They'll go, well, this isn't an album, or that's not an album. I don't know. I think it's somewhere high 30s, you know? High 30s.

Probably, yeah. But it's ultimately, it's not, I mean, it's what I do. I don't understand why people don't. Especially, like, let's say you have some, multi-millionaire band that music has made them millions of dollars, why wouldn't you make

more music all the time? You have time to do it now. Yeah. Why wouldn't you do it? What are you doing? Taking 10 years to do an album? What the fuck he's doing? I've always wondered that.

Should be able to do an album a year in 10 years or two albums. You guys have nothing else to do. It's like, the bands take long breaks. I'm like, what are you doing at home, dude? I don't know, wasting time. It doesn't mean they're smart. You know?

Just because they're successful. I mean, guys like Andy Warhol, Andy Warhol worked hard his whole life. He was constantly doing stuff. Just because he was rich, didn't mean he stopped working, you know. And he basically invented how rock shows are, you know, presented today.

There's a challenge for you. Reinvent how you view music, you know. Andy, what, is he a writer? He's an artist. Artist, okay. I saw artists. I would say arguably, yeah, did write some books but arguably I think he's the

to me the greatest artist of the 20th century you know really I think I would say his work ethic is I would really take a lot of inspiration from him and how he operated there's a thing he said that I really loved which was like

make art and then while people are trying to figure out whether they like it or not make more art oh right right just keep keep going let them worry about it. Yeah, because you don't listen to your own records. Well, I do

like this new album, I had it done last fall, right? Yeah. And I've listened to it up until about usually what happens, I listen to it up until about the time they come out. Yeah. And then I've moved on. You know? I move on.

And then it's, then you release it out into the world and you just kind of let people think what they want. I don't know. Yeah. I've already moved on. I mean, I've moved on to thinking about what I'm doing next, because that was six months ago, you know? So once is out, you're just already thinking about a long time ago. But so I'll make the record, master it, have the mastered copy. Yeah. And then listen to that for a few months. Just,

okay, you know, I can enjoy that. And then I'm moving on to the next thing after a few months. and then it goes out, and then the public hears it. You know, so I'm already over it. It's done. It's like, okay. But you don't, I mean, you're going to sit there and listen to your own music?

It's like, you know? Yeah, but you never, like, look back. You never, like, what's the word I'm looking for? You never, like, look back. I'm going to listen to this record slowly for the fact, like, just reflect where you were. Oh, I do that. Sometimes women are going to do an old song or something,

but I'll listen to songs, that hadn't listened to in a long time and like I'll remember like maybe something off stag or something like that and I'll go, I never was happy with how that came out. No. Why? Well, like certain songs on the record,

I remember thinking, eh, I don't know how to make this any better. Okay. And then I'll go back and listen to it, you know, 20 years plus later and go, why didn't I like this? It's fine. It took you 20 years to...

I don't know. Things changed. It's just like, I don't even remember what I didn't like. I remember not liking something about, it yeah I don't remember what it was you know now I hear it and I go sounds fine to me I don't know what the fuck I was talking about yeah my wife does all over our graphic design too really yeah oh it's sick that's her main gig she was a graphic designer before I ever met her so that was her main thing she she did the that's awesome

man one of the most famous things she did was you know that social distortion skeleton mm-hmm she that's her design yeah are you serious Yeah. There it is. Oh, wow. She didn't do that for them either. She did that as a early 80s. She did that as a New Year's Eve card. And she knew those guys and gave one to Mike.

And he was like, oh, can we use this? He's like, yeah, go ahead. Use this for our main logo. There is. So it wasn't done. I've seen that on us tattoos so many times. Oh, my God. Dude, that has seen.

Shit loads. You see your wife's art on people's arms. That's crazy, huh? All over the world. Hundreds and hundreds I've seen hundreds and hundreds of times. I never say anything. I said, that's my wife's art. But it's a great, it's a great design. It is.

And it was supposed to be a New Year's card. It was a New Year's. She still has the original silk screen she made. She still has it. It's way bigger? It's about this big. Okay. The picture, you know?

Nice. She made cards, silk screen cards. Oh, wow. And she still has some of the cards, you know, the original cards. That's dope. But she's great. So like with our art for fuck, since the whole time we've been together, she's done all of our record covers almost.

And, you know, people like that, she's a pro. So you just let her do, I'll maybe have an idea for something. Yeah. And I'll go, how would you do this? Yeah. She'll make it way better than I would have imagined it. Way better. Yeah, always.

And like we, she helped me, because I always love taking pictures. And so she's helped me a lot with, like, we'll drive around town and just driving and looking at billboards and looking at things. And it's like, well, why does that billboard not work? Why does that one work? What's good about this? Why is this good? You know? And then discuss what advertising is supposed to do, what pictures are supposed to do, how it's supposed to.

Like a good ad, and I'm paraphrasing, of course, is it draws you into a certain thing. Yeah. You know, if you're trying to sell something, you're drawing. you to that thing. And so, like, with our album covers, I don't want it to be a treasure hunt. You know, I want you to look, you can read our logo,

you can read our name from 20 feet away. It's true. You know, I don't want people to not be able to find our band because we fucked up our art so bad they can't figure out what it is. Yeah. I want people to be, it's at the top. I want to be able to be able to see it,

and I want it to look like it could be the quality of a Coca-Cola ad, you know. The same. And I want the most, offensive thing about us to be how we sound, you know? So I think it all plays into that. So we've discussed that at great lengths, all these kinds of things, how we make it work, like that. That looks like it could be an ad for anything, you know.

It works really well. You see the band name, you see the art, you see the name of the record. The name of the, the name is at the top. Why is that? Because when you're looking to record bands, it's at the top. Yeah. There's, there it is. Melvins, it's at the top.

If it's sitting on a shelf, you can see it. Like, that's smaller than an album. You could read that from 30 feet away, you know? It's true. It works. That's what's good about it. And so we've discussed that. It just endlessly, you know, all these different kinds of ideas

are how we want things to work, why we want it to work. That explains while all your record covers have your name at the very top master's fuck. That's most of it, most of the time. There's a reason why it's like that. She's helped me a lot with my photography and stuff like that where I'll realize what's important about why is this a good picture? Why? And I love photography.

And so she also does, yeah, there you go. There's a bunch of my pictures. Beautiful, man. Instagram. That's my only social media account. There's a Red Cross guys. I took that picture of the Red Cross, and I took that picture in Sacramento when you're on to her.

Underneath this, in the backstage, I'm on this horrible light. And I go, oh, I can make you guys look like the Queen, the Queen album. You know, just do this. And I took that, I took that with my iPhone, you know? That's with your phone? Yeah. That looks like you took it with a fucking camera. I took that with my iPhone.

One picture, click. That's it. And it looks great. I mean, people shit talk to iPhone. It's like, oh, you guys are crazy. A good photographer, it's not about the gear. It's the guy. As I say, it's not the Indian.

It's not the arrow. It's the Indian. It's Indian, not the arrow. It's like, right. You know? Jimmy Hendix would have been good on any guitar. Yeah. You know, if you'd have given Man Ray any camera, he'd have been able to take you a good picture.

It's like I talked to guys, professional photographers, you know, and I'll go, how much difference do you think today's gear would make for somebody like from the 30s, a photographer? And they're minimal. They're good. They would be good no matter what. No matter what. I love that picture. No pissing. Is he pissing or puking?

Maybe. Maybe he's pissing. No peeing, yeah. Oh, okay, I see, okay. Go over there, go over there. You got to get this picture. You hear a lot of great photographers, like, are actually the ones that are the quickest.

They'll take, like, one or two shots and, oh, it's done. I'm like, what? You serious? It's done? There's my wife. That's cool, man. Shark Jaws, yeah. Over 30 years, man.

Yeah? Congrats, dude. Oh, thanks. You made it. Yeah, well, as long as one of us doesn't lose our mind, any more than we already have, you know. We have a, it's a, it's a good thing. I mean, it's a really good creative.

We've worked together the whole time and done all kinds of stuff. She, like I did, I did a photography book called Rats. Yeah. And she designed the book and that's one of her, one of the things she does. And then that poster right there is for the Napalm Death Tour, New at Napalm Death Tour. Those, those were silkscreened at our house. And then she does, that's a letter press on the right. The Trace Cabrone, that's a letterpress one.

And then the one on the left is a silk screen, you know. So it's great. No, we use that image for the new tour too. It's great. That's dope. So we have letter press at our house. And we do that and silk screening too. Small run stuff.

And then she does, you know, all that stuff. So it's all very, very exciting. That skull was sick. And the skeleton, I didn't know that. You see that thing everywhere, do you? Oh, this social distortion thing? It's that. It's iconic.

It's iconic, man. That is my dog. The doggy. One of the dogs. That's Buster. He's 17 or 18 now. Really? Yeah.

Wow. Good boy. What a good boy. He's a, he's on the cover of my rat's book. I'm holding a rat over his head that he had killed a dead rat. Sick. Those dogs are vicious killers. Are they?

Oh, my God. I think the Jack Russell pound for pound. There it is. That's the book. Oh, it is right there. Boom. That's my photography book. There he is.

That's a ratty killed in our house. He's hunted it all day in the backyard. Dude, those small dogs are fucking killers. Those particular dogs, I think pound for pound are the most vicious dogs in the planet. Are they? Pound for pound. They're about 15 pounds, so what are you going to do? If his brain was in an 80-pound pit bull body, you'd have to shoot it on sight.

They'd be like Tasmanian devils, you know? but 15 pound dog you just pick him up what are you going to do bitch you know yeah yeah you're not fucking touching me so yeah but their fangs are huge and they're designed bread to be rat killers you know okay that's their thing and so nothing excites a dog like that the terrier especially the jack russell nothing excites him more than killing all day long that's all he wants to do you'll read stuff online about a about uh about uh about those dogs like jack russell's in general, which I think they're my favorite dog. They're amazing dogs.

But it'll say stuff like in bold print. These dogs cannot be trusted around small animals. Oh, it says that? It cannot be. So you know that going in. They will fucking kill whatever they can kill. Hey, Jay, can we

type in what are the top five most dangerous dogs? Well, they're not dangerous but I think pound for pounds they're vicious. Yeah, it's vicious. But, you know, what's a 15-pound dog going to do to you? If he was 70 pounds, it'd be a whole nother story. You know, like, I would take, if I could put a Jack Russell's brain in a pit bull body.

Yeah, it will kill. I'm dead. I'm dead. I'm dead. You know, they're way more vicious than those dogs. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but they're 15 pounds. It's not like you're going to, you know.

I think pit bulls are really good dogs, too, but they're more of. liability, you know. They can mall somebody, you know, to death potentially. So Jack Russell's not going to mall you. Just kick him away. What are you going to fucking do? Yeah. But rats, rabbits, anything like that, oh my God. They're fucking done. You know, kill them instantly. But that's what they do. That's what they're bred to do.

Yeah. So, and they're working dogs. So a buzz. Hunters, you know. It's killers, man. So you, you grew up in Monisano? See? There it is. Oh, wow. That's a action style. Fuck yeah. That's full on action. That's what that's their whole deal and they're the they're the sweetest smartest most amazing dogs. I just love them. I love I love Jack Russell's you know see chasing something down to fucking kill everything they just want to kill everything. It's kill terriers you know

Pipples are terriers too. I take it that you don't like cats. Oh, I don't mind cats. Oh, you don't mind them. It'd be difficult to have cats with with dogs of that nature. You know, but I'm sure you could be done, but I don't think I would want to do it. You know, I don't have anything against cats. The dogs might have something against cats. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Look at him.

Killed it. You know, kill the fox. That's fucking crazy. That's fucking twice its size. Yeah, that's what I mean. What the hell, dude? Yeah. But they're smart.

They're so smart. Those dogs are just brilliant dogs, you know, for dogs, you know. But I love dogs. I can't imagine not having them. We've had dogs almost our whole relationship the time we've been married, so a lot of them. How many dogs do you guys have? Right now we have two.

We've had as many as four at once. And then we had a Jack Russell that lived to 21. Mm. Amazing. 21, man. Yeah, four dogs. It's like a, they're more of like a handful. It's a lot.

It's a lot to deal with. But, you know, I mean, my wife says something about the Jack Russell. He goes, who needs cable TV when you have Jack Russell? Yeah. Right. Full-time job. They're always funny, always doing something. Always, they love adventure and they love going with you.

And they're just the best dogs, I think. But I like dogs in general. But I like labs and stuff like that too. But Jack Russell, I think, are just a special, special dog. Oh, there he is. That's up with the observatory. That's our other dog, that's a blackie. And he's younger.

He's about six or seven. Nice. And dogy And dogy Yeah he's great Yeah but fucking killers dude Oh there he is Yeah

Killers dude Oh my goodness He's an American Hunt Terrier He's not a Jack Russell So he's not as smart as a Jack Russell So he can kind of see the Jack Russell Or other Jack Russell look at him Like you're so stupid

God you're stupid That's really funny It's really funny But he's American Hunt Terrier And he's great but just as maybe not quite as much of a hunter as a Jack Russell's but he's right in there

he wants to he wants to tear everything apart too yeah he's about 15 pounds we have two 15 pound dogs how far was it where you grew up and to Seattle how far

120 miles maybe it might as well have been a million miles yeah how do you see this Montesano Montesano okay It was way out in the coast. So you would drive that far and you would just get, you would go there and just

back and forth and get punk rock records, correct? I bought my punk rock records on, through the mail. Oh, the mail? Yeah. Mail order. I never knew what, and that was in the 70s, I never knew what I was going to get. You know, just bought pictures of, bought records by

how the people looked online, in the magazines. The clash, the sex pistols, oh, look at this, you know. And then there'd be little, things you could order records like from advertised like you know mail order and so I would

give my mom money and then she would write me a check and then I would send away for these records you know and I have no idea what what I would get like that so well no that's that's more of a record club but there was ones where you could mail order records you know there's certain companies

that would have lists of stuff you could buy you know and I would That's how I did it. And that's how you found the sex pistols. Sex pistols, all the punk rock stuff. And then from the sex pistols did a cover of no fun by the Stooges. So then I figured out about that. So it's just kind of just moved along like that, you know?

Yeah. Pretty interesting. That's a legendary band. But it was all by myself. And I didn't know anybody. Yeah, there it is. I didn't know anybody that was into anything like that. So I didn't have a very fun time in high school time.

I met the other guys. They were younger than me, actually, a year younger. So in my own class, I didn't really have any friends or anything like that. Yeah, because you graduated in 82, correct? Yeah. Okay. Nice. Yeah, but I didn't have any friends, like, as far as in my class.

No friends. No, not like that. And any girlfriends I had were always from out of the town I lived in. Couldn't handle it. Going to school with the people that I was. Yeah, so sort of like that. Okay. Sort of like that, but that's SST, but it was things like that.

They have them in magazines and you could buy records, you know. Yeah, because isn't like... Or they would send you... You'd buy a record and they'd send you a list of other stuff, you know? If you buy Bowie or whoever you wanted, you know. But I liked all that. I love Aerosmith, Bowie, you know, sex pistols, Led Zeppelin, you know, all those. I never, even when I was into punk rock, I never stopped listening to bands like Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd.

Yeah. Nobody told me it wasn't cool. Yeah. I did it anyway. Yeah, because you mentioned you were at like a low point in your life and when you found like the sex pistols, they're like a big like...

Yeah, I loved it. I knew it was something new, something different, you know? Yeah. Bowie was a bigger one. Really? Yeah. You know, listen to stuff like the hunky dory record where it's like, you know,

songs like QuickSand. You know? There it is. QuickSand is. That's a fucking cover. That's her bucket cover. What is it? Closer to the Golden Dawn, you know, immersed in Crowley's uniform, you know.

Talking about all this stuff I had no idea. The Golden Dawn, what the fuck is the Golden Dawn? Crowley, you know. I got interested in all those kinds of things. And Himmler, you know, talks about all that in that song. And you're, you know, eighth grade listening to that going, what the fuck is this? And that song in particular, I think, is extra special. I know quicksand I think it's a fucking amazing song

and got my interest in a lot of those kinds of things eighth grade ninth grade you know what's it about well you know the first lyric is I'm closer to the golden dawn immersed in Crowley's uniform you know the golden dawn is that satanic well I guess it's like a sort of a satanic thing that Alistair Crowley was into you know it's like you know that's right the first line of lyric there it is you know I'm closer to the gold

living sound from playing Himmler's sacred realm of dream reality Himmler, you know, the Nazi. Oh, shit. Yeah, fighting by the total gold drawing. Fucking lyrics are amazing. You know, garbo. It's, it's, uh, I was really, should I kiss the Vipers fang. That's a fucking great line, you know?

I was super influenced by all this stuff at a very young age, you know, and just, I didn't know what he was talking about, but I knew I was interested in it, you know? Yeah. And more than anything else, that, that kind of clued me into the idea that there was a world outside of the I was in you know yeah it's like and once I got out of there a small town like that and I realized it I was more comfortable you know yeah yeah how so so with the music how yeah how exactly did you get out of your small town moved moved yeah worked yeah worked and then moved by by by I left I after I graduated from high school I was within a year we

recording stuff and then I was traveling a lot just like randomly or like somebody not really having anywhere to go and working but then within a few years after that by 86-87 I had moved to San Francisco full-time so it seemed like a long time

but it wasn't really that many years it seems like a quick yeah quick never looked back I got to San Francisco and I was the first big city I ever lived in and I was completely intrigued and enamored by it. It was just fucking amazing.

I loved it. I lived out in the Richmond District of San Francisco, out by the Goldigate Bridge. Oh, beautiful, man. Totally great. And near Anton LeVay's house. Oh, he lived right out there. I think a house is torn down now.

But at the time, it was black, black Victorian house. The chain link fence in front of it, you know. Beautiful. With barbed wire on the top, the pointed in. It's like the barbed wire was designed to keep people in the house, not to keep people out of that house. Yeah, there it is. Oh, dude, a black house looks creepy as fuck, dude.

It's got chain link fence. I think it did tore it down now, but that was a... That was creepy. I don't know if you could see it there, but the barb wire pointed in, you know. Stay in and write your reference. You're not going anywhere. So did you go to say... I can't tell.

That's his house. That was his house. And see, everything around it was all built up, but there it is. I think it's gone now. That's a creepy looking house. Look that car, too, right in front. It's got to be his car. The barbed wire, you're right.

It goes inward to keep people in the house. What the fuck is that? I know. I would see him walking around the neighborhood. I would see him like at the drugstore buying stupid shit, you know. And he just lived that neighborhood was really cool. I loved it. I would go on long walks.

And it was, it was a really great place to live. and I think it's kind of been ruined now. There he is. Anton LeVay. Never met him. Never went in the house. Were you already? Church of Satan?

Oh, my God. Were you already sober at this point when you made this move? No, I still drank. Okay. Stuff like that. That's creepy. I was kind of leaning towards that. I would go long periods of time where I didn't do anything, you know?

Yeah. But then I gave it up completely. So I think it's better. Yeah. Better for me. What record should you start writing When you move there I had a lot of stuff already written

And that went on the Osama record And then Bullhead I wrote This was the first Bullhead is probably the first one I wrote Fully there Okay I think

I might have written some of that before But I'm gonna look at those songs I think I wrote all that in San Francisco Okay Pretty sure I came out about 90 I think This came out 90

90-991 correct 90-91 but I think I recorded it 90 okay nice and then we did what did you have to do that Lysol I think Lysol okay and then we were assigned to Atlantic so it was Lysol that got you signed to the major

no what got assigned to a major was Nirvana exploding oh yeah every majors took everything and even remotely wasn't even close we were already making a living playing music before Okay.

That stuff exploded, so. Yeah. I was already not working. Then it exploded. And then we got, I never would have got signed to a major, I don't think. But people think, you know, well, that's what made you guys, you know, where you're at. But I was already doing fairly well before. How many years were you already full time with the band?

88. I've been about 88. Okay. It's well before Nirvana. Making a, this is my, this is my career. Well, what happened was we put up the, we put up the Aston record in 88, and we got our first royalty check,

which gave me and Dale each about $3,000. Congratulations. Right. And so that was an incredible amount of money. As the most money I've ever had. Yeah, it is, dude. And $3,000. And so we said, let's see if we can just quit our jobs

and just see how long we can make this work, you know? So after their first check, That's when, like, you guys, wait, let's fucking quit our jobs. Quit our jobs and just see how long we can go without having to go until we can't pay a rent, you know? Yeah. And I haven't had a job since. So, you know, that's it.

But I think until you jump off the cliff like that, and then you're forced to start hustling, you know. You got to jump off the cliff. People won't jump off the cliff, man. It's scary. It is. But, I mean, I've always figured, what's the worst it could have? happen. I have to get a job.

What? I always had jobs. Didn't bother me. Yeah. I don't really want to work. I'd rather do this full time, but if I have to work a job, it's... Look, I mean, I haven't had a job since 1988. So if I have to get a job now, well, that's fucking amazing.

Yeah. It's almost 40 years. You know, no job. Just be going. Nobody underwriting what I'm doing, you know? So I think it's... People can look got it however they want to but i'm a professional musician that's all i ever wanted to do you know that's it so so mission accomplished mission accomplished and i don't look at people on goal like this

guy's rich and i'm not you know like i don't look at i don't look at the world like that yeah i don't i'm not a jealous or like fuck them they're just some rich asshole it's like they don't fault somebody for money i don't you know there's plenty of people that are poor that are fucking assholes too So 100%. Nobody has the asshole market cornered by any means. I always found it weird when people would say that you're bitter of other people's successes because they didn't even, people don't even know that you got asked to join Nirvana and you said no. I didn't.

You sure? No, I didn't. Follow your gut. I have the book right here that I read it in. Well, that it must be true. Okay. What book? This.

No, I've never read that book, but that is absolute bullshit. It's a total absolute bullshit. It's a Dave Grohl quote. That's not true. Well, it's not true. Really? No, they never asked me. So from what the quote says,

in black, in white, I'm reading them, oh shit, that's weird. First, they asked, they wanted a second guitar player. Nope, they never said a word to me about that. It's absolute nonsense. And they said they first asked Steve for mutt, Munn Honey, and they claim, well, I guess now it's claimed, and allegedly, apparently, because we can't believe what we read anymore. And they said, what day girl says, at least that's what that book fucking says, that they asked him first, and he said no. Then they said, they asked you and you used to know.

And that's how they got Pat Smir. Total bullshit. Wow. That is total bullshit. Nobody in their camp ever asked me to do anything like that with them. Really? No. Nonsense.

So once we put up this podcast, I'm going to take a picture of the thing and where the interview was taking. from it was a interview from France in 90 February in 19 could be they could have misquoted him sure I mean I happens like if you look at the Wikipedia page for me 70 percent of that's oh dude I total bullshit and I don't I don't I don't fix it yeah just leave it so people can figure out whatever they want whatever they think 70% of that is not true now there might be some some kernels of truth in there gold gold hidden underneath all the shit. Maybe it's like they might have something, but I'm not going to say, but they might say something.

And I'll go, well, that's kind of true. Okay. But that's not 100. That's not really the truth, you know. So if you go by, if I go by like what my own influence is or my experience with the internet and the truth of the internet, then how can you believe anything? Yeah. But I'd say you can maybe believe 20% or 30% of Wikipedia, whatever it says about certain people. I mean, I don't know who does this.

Who does this? It's certainly not me. Who the fuck? I have no idea. Dude. I have nothing to do with it. And so whatever they put on there, they're putting it on there themselves and has nothing to do with me. But I'm not going to fix it.

Yeah. I'd rather let people think whatever they want. Wow. Just like what you did with the book, I've had journalists do that to me so many times. Well, no, that's not true. It's like, bitch, I was there. Yeah. What are you fucking talking about?

You know? That's not true. They're like, okay. You're right. I don't know. What the fuck do I know? It's just funny how people have an opinion when they weren't there and you were actually there. They believe it. That's their, that's the reality.

They believe it. I'm here to learn, man. So I guess it's not your fault. You read it in the book? Of course you think it's true. Why wouldn't you? What else did I fucking read? That's not even true.

Oh, lots of stuff. Well, Nichi talks about politicians. He says everything they say is a lie and every bit of money they use. They got from somebody else. So there you go. If you just use that, I think he's right. You know, you use that as an example about what is the, it's like I had Shirley Temple because my girlfriend, her mom was Shirley Temple.

She said to me, in relation to politics, this is in the 80s, she goes, how much do you think you know? Yeah. You don't know anything. You know what they're telling you. That's it. You don't know the truth. What the fuck is the truth, you know?

Right. How much do you think you know? you're basing your opinion on what 10% of the truth wow are you that's a great quote right there it's like I love how much do you think you know surely was right how much do you think you know

and the problem feeding you shit and then you think you know well then you're basing your opinion on what they're telling you it's like how do you know you don't know I think the problem is people have to be smarter than that yeah you have to think outside the box all the time all the time otherwise you're just

going to be another stupid idiot just doing whatever being manipulated by the you know the evil people that do that for whatever reason we'll never going to know what the truth is maybe 100 years now we will never know we will never know i think uh you know what they're telling you you know what they're telling you that's it that's it i i i related to where um you know we're in we're in a small little band right it's like we don't even we can't even grasp this thing the idea that we're that we're we can't even grasp something like politics is like dude it's like impossible we'll never know how the world goes around it's a massive

manipulation yeah don't fall prey to it that's it don't do it it's a mistake don't choose sides it's a fucking mistake you know you're playing their game why would you want to be involved in that I don't

don't nothing to do with it fuckless people yeah so how do you so I mean I guess the only way to find truth is you have to literally see a video of the person saying it in long form maybe it's true maybe it's not true i mean you can manipulate you can manipulate video well now you can right they always have been able to manipulate what people see you know yeah it's never not been the case

so and then as it gets passed along it gets changed it just changed you know so then what is the truth I don't know. So in your in your opinion, Buzz, if someone, because, you know, people like me, I'm sure you could look back at an era where you weren't there. But how do you, but you have this connection with the instrument. You know, I want to find out more about this thing. You want to find out more about what you do. So you look back on history. How do you?

So for me, Buzz, like I wasn't there in the 80s or 90s. All I have is these books. And I know other people feel the same. So how do you find things that are true? Just do your best. Do your best. Do your best. Okay.

Take it with a grain of salt. It's the best thing you can do. I read it so... I mean, especially like famous musicians, they're not going to tell you everything. Yeah. No matter what. You know, there's all kinds of embarrassing shit they don't want anybody to know. You know, why are they going to tell you?

You know what they tell you. Just like with the media, you know? Yeah. No different. To me, anyway. I mean, my tax guy says, to me, he goes, why do you worry about things you have no control over? Yeah.

I'm like, right. Just worry about what you can control. Don't worry about all this esoteric shit. Yeah. It's just going to drive you crazy. Right. I feel crazy now. Right.

I just ask you a dumb question. I feel pretty like. It's not a dumb question. It's in the book. It's in the fuck. I mean, I have said, over and over and over and over that most of that stuff about

especially about Nirvana isn't true nobody listens to me no which I took actually buzz I took that from you when I see well not even about this scene in particular but whenever I see any kind of documentary I'm like okay cool it's a great show

but I don't I don't believe that so all so my truth buzz is okay maybe I could read a book so there's no weird weirdness. I see the words, I thought up until like 10 minutes ago, oh, this is true. This is only words. There's no weird propaganda around the 90s or Nirvana or Grunches. Apparently, even that can be trusted. Maybe this guy believes that, a girl, whoever wrote it, and maybe it was an interview. Maybe

Dave Grohl did say that. I don't know, but I know it's not true. You know? He very well may have said it. Maybe it's taken out of context. I don't know. You know? I mean, look, if you go through every interview I've ever done, I'm sure I contradict myself here and there or say, we all do. Change it. Sure, sure.

I don't know. I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of interviews. Yeah. Can't be spot on perfect every time. Shouldn't be expected to. No. I mean, fiction is always better than the truth anyway. It could be more exciting.

I like that idea. Yes. I was asked to join Nirvana and I said, there's no fucking way I'm going to do it. Yeah. well now uh i read like so there's like this series that's that that's a series

because uh there's people that are dead like they have a a series on hendricks a series on john lennon so it's like basically like the person on it's just a book on all their interviews and i it's a lot and now i'm kind of questioning what the fuck i just read well you know straight up interviews i know that there's

straight up interviews i've done that came out in print that i know i did not say that that way. Yeah. That's not, that I sort of said that, but that's not exactly what I said. All the time.

All the time. So I just leave it. I let the internet have a life of its own, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just don't worry about it. Mm-hmm.

Oh, that was what I looked like when I was trying to find a job. That's what Burger King said no. It was before that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, before that. Yeah. If I was due over again,

I would just quit high school. I wouldn't even finish. No way. I'd quit after ninth grade. I hated it. I think it's a waste of time, personally. Even college is a waste of time. So you're not proud that you graduated?

I couldn't care less. Not at all. I mean, I literally was a waste of time for me. I couldn't do something more productive that amount of time. Yeah, like rocking. I don't know. Something other than sitting in a fucking school. I never wanted to go to college.

It just seemed like more bullshit to me, you know. If you want to make money as a career, become a plumber. Those guys make a lot of money. Yeah. Go get a humanities degree from some four, from Ivy League. What are you going to, good luck, you know. I never wanted to go to school. I hated school.

Hated the people that went to school. I hated the teachers. It was a small town. It was like a four thousand population two thousand. Probably then, yeah. part 2000 i don't know how many is now but there's 2000 i was there i don't like small town anywhere yeah you know everyone knows you like up your ass about everything they're just you know and like so i was talking about southern hospitality it's like down south they're just nosy pricks yeah

that's not nice people well people in general are nosy as fuck and they're rude i don't need to tell you everything it's like it's like who's that guy of the crazy hair man oh i get that all the time Is that your real hair? It's not even my real head. I mean, at this point, is anything real? I don't know anymore. Why do you have your hair cut like that? I go, it's not cut at all.

Yeah. What are you talking about? Cut? I don't remember the last time I had a haircut. You just let it go, dude. I don't care. I was like my wife said, you don't have a job. Don't worry about it.

Do whatever you want. It's not right. It's sick, dude. It's you, I've always appreciated, Buzz, how you really, bands always seem to respect you and you always went on the beat of your own drum it's cool yeah I mean uh that's nice of them mm-hmm you're always done your own thing even when you assigned to a major did you yeah you probably didn't even switch your mind oh we're just gonna we're just gonna write another record I never thought it would work so really okay yeah they'll do one album and then they'll be done

you know they did three right I ended up doing three with nobody was more surprised me, you know. So. The first was Houdini. Houdini Stonerwich and Stag. I really, really liked my experience doing that. We made a little bit of money, but not a ton of money.

And, I mean, I probably made off of those enough to pay my bills for about six months, you know, probably. By the time, out of the money, once we split it up and paid taxes on it, I probably had, maybe

if I was very frugal, about a year, maybe without buying a car or something. Yeah. It wasn't like I got millions of dollars or anything. Did Garth come in later on? Yeah, after we fired Cobain. Okay, so I was curious if like you got Garth Richardson first and then... No, we got him second.

Second, okay. Fired Cobain, then got Garth to finish up the record. But now we work with this guy, Toshi Kasich, and we've worked with him for over 20 years. Nice, dude. I love working with him. He's great. So I feel much more comfortable doing that.

Usually when you have a producer for a period of time, you kind of want to switch. So it seems like you just stayed with it. Just comfort or just trust? Well, I kind of have to make this work. So I can't, you know, the amount of money that we spend on records, it's like, okay, you know, records don't sell. Yeah.

So the idea of spending a massive amount of money on a producer makes no sense. Yeah. Why would you do it? And it's like, we know what we're doing. People don't like it. It's not because of the way it sounds, you know? Yeah. I could go with some do-nothing producer and have them make a bunch of money on the record and pay them tens of thousands of dollars and then end up with what.

would it be better? Yeah Maybe, but What is good? It's arbitrary. What is good? Right. One of my favorite sounding records,

or one of my favorite records, is that Bad Brains Roar Comp. You know? Yeah. And it's like, it's by production value, it's terrible, terrible production, but it's a fucking great record.

It's a great record. So there it is, yeah. That record is really, really good. And does it sound like it did in some high-class studio? No, not at all. That sounds like they spent nothing on it. Does it matter? No.

It's really good. I wouldn't change a thing. Yeah, what makes a great record? I don't know. Why do people like what they like? Why do some guys like women that look one way and women look another way? There's just no way to know. It's no way to know.

No, it's arbitrary, you know. what is good. Well, no one knows. I think that's good. I think there's a lot of records I really love. There's high production value on a lot of records, like, you know, something like a dark side of the moon. I think sounds really good, and I always enjoy that, Pink Floyd.

But there's other records that I don't have to have. That's a great sounding record. I like that record top to bottom. You know, it's really good. It's one of their best ones. Did you listen to it sober? I've listened to it since I was a kid. Every state?

Yeah. Yeah, tons of times. I love Pink Floyd. I think they're fucking great. Pink Floyd's really good. But I, you know, I love all throbbing gristle, pink Floyd, you know, just across the board. I'm not, you know, the doors, you know, just Leds up one, sex pistols, black flag. You're all over the place, dude.

Captain Beefheart, all that stuff. Tom Waits, Amy Winehouse. I love him. Amy Winehouse. I didn't really get into her until I watched a documentary about her. And then I was just like, oh my God, a few years, like four years ago. Yeah. And she's one of my favorites. Oh, my God.

I think that that song, That Loves the Losing Game, I think, is probably one of my favorite songs ever. That's a fucking amazing song. You know, she's like, unbelievable. And what I would have really loved to see was her to do a record with Tom Waits. I think that would have been great. I think she's just phenomenal. Should we print the chorus? What's the part?

What now? What's like the part here? Chorus? This song. That's one of my favorite songs ever, you know? I think it's unbelievable. The lyrics. Love is a losing game.

Oh my God. It's just one of my favorite songs. I would say it's in my top ten favorite. favorite songs ever easily. And right up next to it is Joan Baez Diamonds and Rust. Okay.

With Judas Priest did a cover of. Really? They did an amazing cover of it. Diamonds and Rust is fucking great song. You read it, you listen to it, the lyrics are so good.

She's just it's just so sad, you know. what she went through, you know. It's unbelievable. Well, I'll be damned. I think she's phenomenal. And that's one of my favorite songs ever.

Now play the Judas Priest version. The Priest version is really good. It's really good. Play the live, the live Unleasing the East. You know? But the priest, priests are one of my favorites, too. Is this it? Unleased, no, there's a

just to play the record. the record Unleashed in the East. There it is. Diamonds and Rust. Their version of this is fucking phenomenal. I think Unleashing the East is the greatest heavy metal record ever made.

Really? I think so. Okay. I think they are the best for that kind of heavy metal. Nobody ever did it better. You know? That record is top-notch, top to bottom. But they did such a great version

of this. Oh my God It's so good You would never guess It was It was a cover That's Joan Baez You know

Yeah I interviewed Rob And asked him about it You know He's like oh my God I love Love Joan Baez You know

It's just talking about We're here This record come out Seventies Oh it's 79 Yeah That record to me Is the best

Like I said The best Heavy Metal record Ever made I think It's got Green Malii Which is a

Peter Green song From Fleetwood Mac Yeah Green Manalishi's unbelievable song. You know, and the original of that is fucking haunted, man. Oh, my God. Really?

Oh, my God. It's such a good. Green Manali, you did, with a, play the, yeah. Oh, that art is. Greenalishi is amazing. Peter Green was phenomenal, you know. This song is so great. And then Judas Priest did a cover of this.

Really? That's fabulous. That's why they're goats. That's why they're goaded. Yep. but he sings and plays guitar on this and it's just you know zizi top is kind of like blues based happy music he's not he's like not happy music that's my favorite music yeah i love this this is just a tone's it green the peter green is he did black magic woman you know oh well oh yeah rattlesnake

you know dead now but i saw him probably not long well it was a few years before he died but it was pretty crazy. He's pretty out of it. Happy I got to see him. Yeah. That was cool. Did you ever meet Thomas Sol? No.

Never, no. I wish. That would have been sick. There he is. There's Peter Green. I think he went kind of nuts. Off his rocker. I think he spent time in a mental institution.

But those songs... Died in July 2020. But it's like, you know, Peter Green... During COVID's tragic. It's like, you know, the song, to me, I don't know what it was actually about, but Green Manalishi, I think Manalishi is like a devil, but it's his devil, Peter Green Manalishi, you know?

Yeah. That's what I always thought. And I think he said it was about money, you know? But I can't believe he needed my love so bad, you know? It's fucking great. I mean, oh, my God. I just think he's, that song like that are just, I'll never tire of that stuff.

No. But it's just so tortured and, and, um. 69, boom. mean so much to me. I think it's fucking unbelievable stuff. I think he was second to none. I think the guy from Metallica

bought his original guitar who he had sold to Gary Moore, who played in Thin Lizzie. And then when he died, his estate, I believe, sold it to Kurt Hammett. There it is. That's a Peter Green guitar. And I think he paid two million bucks

for it or something. Two million something like that? Yeah. Because and I asked you, I talked, met him and he had the guitar, and I got to hold it. And then I go, you know, are you, did you get into Peter Green as a result of the Judas Priest? He says, oh yeah, same as me, you know, you know, right. So it's kind of one of those guitars, I have to own this. Well, he's got the money for it.

Two million dollars. But it's a Peter Green. I understand why he would want it. Yeah. It's like, that's Peter Green's guitar. He wrote all this. crazy stuff on it and he gets it understands why it's important yeah you know there's so many other stupid things you could spend your money on but that is a piece to me of it's almost like finding the

holy grail or yeah having the you know the um ark of the covenant or something you know it's peter green's guitar you know is there any other is there any guitars that you would want want to own it's like oh this is this guitar i'd love to have a pt townson guitar oh did you ever meet him no I'm terrible at networking. Yeah. One of the ones he had in the 70s, a Les Paul. It's a Les Paul deluxe with a DeMarsio pick over the middle. There it is.

One like that. It's got two switches. I don't know. I've never played. No, there's one. There's another ones that have numbers on them. You know? There you go.

See how he's got two switches at the back by the numbers? Yeah. And then he's a deluxe. So those are mini humbuckers in Les Paul's. They made him in the 70s. might still make them, but then he put a DiMarsio pickup in the middle. Okay. And I don't know what those other switches do.

I have no idea. Okay. But I would love to have one of those. I think Gibson reissued those, but they're about $12,000, which is a little out of my price range. Wow, dude. But I love that guitar. And then a buddy of mine, a good friend of mine gave me, look up the Pete Townsend, Gibson reissue of the Woodstock, S.G.

A buddy Mine gave me one of those And that thing is It's a reissue It might be it I don't see it There he is playing it At Woodstock

There is that one Right there Yeah That's it But they reissued that Gibson reissued that That one looks a little different It looks how's it

No It's about like that Was he wearing the white A jumpsuit During Woodstock Yeah Yeah Oh yeah

They're my favorite band Easily I think he's a severely underrated guitar player and great songwriter, unbelievable He's definitely one of the best rhythm plays of all time I think he's, I think all around Cross genre Not metal, not rock, nice is cross genre

He's a monstrous You know, nobody's better Yeah, I try to play some of the songs This is not as easy as it sounds or looks He's really good He never talks about guitar Yeah something like that But a buddy of mind gave me one of those

I love it. That's one of my favorite guitars I've ever had. Because of him. It plays great. I've used it on a ton of records. A ton of our records. A ton. I don't even know how many.

There it is. Two P90s sounds really good. I'd love to have one of the other ones, but that was a gift. I didn't get that fancy case, though, with it. But I didn't get that picture of him either. But I love it. I've used it a ton of. A ton of records, ton.

I would never saw... I just sold a bunch of guitars, but I would never sell that guitar. No way. No way, when I saw that guitar, you know? You think he still has it? No, he broke it.

He was through the audience at Woodstock. Oh, yeah, yeah, that one. He just, like, he's, like a... Just tosses it, yeah. And the story I heard was that the Rodees went and stole it back because they kept smashing guitars, and they wanted it back

because it still worked. Oh, okay. But I don't know if that's true. I didn't doubt it. Legendary. I'm surprised you guys never crossed paths. There he is. He's about to smash it.

He's going to bash it on the ground. Turn it up. He's getting great sounds out of it. Watch this. He pounds it on the ground. It's really cool. This is The Kids Are Alright movie. So much for the Peace and Love Generation, you know.

Watch, this is really good. Right at the very end of the song. And he hits a guitar on the ground. It's the best sound. What do you hear how cool this sounds. There we go. He has like a bang race. It's like,

Listen this, listen. When he pounced in the ground, listen how cool it sounds. Fuck yeah, Pete. Listen, listen this. Then he unplugs it. Oh, I love that. Now, here comes to here comes the best part. And into the audience.

Oh, my God. I just think he's so great, you know. Shout out to Pete Townsend, man. Legend. Oh, my God. He's my favorite. He's my favorite. Well, Buzz to close it off,

I know you got to run. Something that you said about writing music, because I know a lot of artists struggle with, like, writers block, you know, et cetera. And I heard you talk about if you're ever feeling that way, you just go back to listen to the songs that got you there. So basically you would play songs that? Just play songs.

It's played. It's play. Beatles songs or stuff that you get going. Okay. And then I fall into it. And I do a lot of weird tunings. stuff like that, just figured out myself, just strange, odd tunings. And then that helps too, get you out thinking in a different direction.

Yeah. I'm not afraid of anything like that. People think, oh, you have to have standard tuning. No, you don't. You can do whatever you want. You do whatever you want. Yeah. I don't want to play people like, you know, Steve Vi.

I mean, so be it. I mean, I saw Steve Vi play with Zappa, and that was good. but I don't want to do that. I have no interest in practicing stuff I'm never going to play. Yeah. Doesn't interest me at all. My favorite guitar players are, you know, like, I would, other than the people we talked about, or like Ted Falcone from Flipper or Roland S. Howard, you know.

Of course. Guys like that, you know. So just experiment with, like, different tunings and plays and songs. There he is. Ted Falcone. He's one of my favorites. That's a beautiful friend. Holy moly God knows what it is

They're one of my favorites Flipper fucking amazing Unbelievable Ted did two tours of Two tours of Vietnam Wow did he Mm-hmm Holy crap dude

Yep He went to Vietnam Yeah he did Is it kind of a trip for For you how Flipper was one of your favorite bands And for their second record They reissued that

They invited you to To write liner notes Yeah I loved it. Man, man, your favorite band gave you to stamp, dude,

that's sick. We did a record of them with Ted and, and, and, it was great. When you get the stamp, wrote some new songs,

wrote a new song for them. That looks like a Fender. That's dope. It's a Fender-ish. I don't know if it's a Fender. It might be a Fender. Probably. Ish, yeah.

I like guitar players like that are like, yeah. Um, you know, uh, bottle surfers, you know, Paul Leary. Yeah. Um, him. Roland S. Howard. Guys like that, you know, bottle servers are always good.

Paul Lerreys, severely underrated guitar player, severely, you know. Is this symbol on fire? Yeah. Holy shit. Puddle surfers are amazing. I love, I love 90% of the stuff they did, you know. it's a pretty good record or guys like Andy Gill from you know gang of four yeah that's the kind of thing um yeah him he's dead now i think i think i think covid killed him i think oh really i think so fuck it sucks man

but his guitar playing on gang of four on the gang of four solid gold album that's one of my favorite fucking records you know nice solid gold i would highly recommend it and it just never heard anything like it. That one, yeah. A song called Paralyzed. Play a bit of Paralyzed. Yeah, let's close it off of Paralyzed. Yeah.

That's one of my favorites. Starts with drums. Yeah. But his guitar playing is so angular. It's so good. That's a word. Angler. What I love about these guys is they're all in their own little space.

Yeah. Like they're not falling. bass player's not following the guitar player you know yeah this was on our biggest influences like especially on the Osma record you know yeah this record I think it's our best record everybody likes entertainment I like this one more you know with that kind of guitar playing it's so thought thought out mm-hmm love it or Adrian Ballou or guys like that you know it's kind of off time is out of oh yeah what that was happening I don't have a big stop

That's what you got that from It's fucking amazing You know This makes you just want to bang her head Huh This makes me just want to bang your head like this Oh my God You

I heard you say buzz Let let their wrong notes ring out Yeah And that kind of Kind of like some wrong notes Kind of is Yeah those guys are phenomenal musicians I think

You know Okay And that kind of That That kind of thing is What has inspired me more than probably Just as much

Anything else Live they're unbelievable Yeah Gang of 4. Yeah. There they are. Sick. I think he's a phenomenally great guitar player,

and very, very, very much an inspiration for me, you know. That's great, man. All right, man. Buzz, did we, anything that we miss? Anything that you want out there, you got a new record dropping? Thunderball. We got an album with, St. Napolm death, Savage Imperial Death March, and I'm working on a new one.

There's Thunderball, you know? You're always working on a new one. Very big. I'm a very big James Bond fan. Really? I wanted to call Thunderball, a record Thunderball. Nice, man. I love James Bond, especially the new guy.

What's his name? I can't think it was name. But Daniel Craig. I think Casino Royale is one of my favorite James Bond's ever, you know. And you know what I love on that? It's a good way to end is the Chris Cornell, the Chris Cornell James Bond theme that he did for that movie, I think is one of the best.

if not the best, James Bond theme. Really? Oh my God, it's so good. It's one of my favorite songs ever, too. Oh, that's beautiful. But the lyrics are fucking amazing in this. It's coming up, arm yourself because no one else here will save you. Right?

You know, I love that. Rushing Priest, Chris, man. This is, I think, one of my favorite things he ever did, you know? And I love that. The whole animation at the beginning is so fucking good. Yeah, that's just sick. It's a great movie. The art is amazing.

Yeah. Beautiful. Buzz, thank you for your... Thank you so much. Thank you for the time, man. Appreciate it. Honor, man. My pleasure. Thank you.

All right, everyone. That's it. Later.