Garza Podcast - 176 - HATEBREED | Jamey Jasta: Headbangers Ball, Hardcore, Dark Web & Taking Risks

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Garza sits down in-person with Jamey Jasta. Vocalist for hardcore band HATEBREED & host of the JASTA SHOW podcast. https://linktr.ee/hatebreedSEE YOU AT MILWAUKEE METAL FEST! https://therave.com/metalfestSPONSORS: https://garzapodcastcoffee.com CHAPTERS:00:00 - Vocal Hacks04:06 - Manifesting Tour w/ Korn09:36 - Pre 911 Travel15:41 - “If People Talk Bad About You, That Makes You More Successful”16:54 - Victimhood19:42 - The Animal Whisperer26:18 - New Haven & Public School31:41 - Living in Bunk Beds36:50 - Nirvana at The Moon41:10 - Bust Before Breakdowns45:01 - Sepultura & Bad Brains49:18 - Thick Skin52:15 - Filing For Bankruptcy55:56 - Signing To Universal59:53 - Ozzfest & Paving Road1:02:26 - Entombed & Kreator1:08:28 - Machine Head’s Come Back1:13:06 - Stephen Carpenter of Deftones1:17:48 - Chasing Puzzle Piece to a Song1:20:37 - Bad Records & Taking Risks1:38:33 - Vince McMahon1:40:38 - Triple H1:45:37 - Wrestlemania1:49:17 - Headbanger’s Ball1:52:02 - Dio1:57:05 - Dave Grohl Chapter2:01:15 - Headbangers Ball Politics2:04:14 - Playing w/ Vanilla Ice2:11:28 - MTV Buzzworthy2:13:59 - Milwaukee Metal Fest2:21:43 - Death Metal vs Deathcore2:26:18 - Summer Slaughter2:33:40 - Reason Jasta Started His Podcast2:36:14 - Corpsegrinder2:41:55 - Funerals & Open Caskets2:43:37 - Carnivore: S.M.D.2:49:45 - Black Market & Dark Web

Nice, man. Make sure we're all lubed up, dude. Oh, dude. I can't fucking live without... Is this stuff addictive? I can't live without chapstick. Oh, my God. I think you need a...

I think if it's either like you're dehydrated or something. Yeah. Right? I need it on stage. You ever chew gum on stage? No. Dude. Bad?

It's good. You can't, obviously, can't sing and do it. But in between, songs if you chew a little gum, especially on those outdoor festivals where it's dry, you get a little chapstick and some gum and you're fucking, it's all game changer. You know what told me that? It's Jeremy McKinnon. Okay.

From a day to remember, like six years ago. I go, dude, these Warb Tour shows my lips are sticking my teeth, fucking dehydrated as shit. He's like, bro, I chew gum, the whole set. Like, how do you sing and chew gum? And he keeps in his cheek. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that's a little vocal hack, huh?

I guess so, yeah. Keeps you lubed up, moist. Because it seems like it's... Shout out to Randy, he hates moist. He hates the word moist. People have a thing with words where you say words they don't like it. It triggers them. It's like nails on a chalkboard.

Yeah, it's moist. What's my word? I don't know. You have a word that just piss you off? well when you have a guest on the pockets and they go you know you know you know you know you know like oh like i'm the worst of the like like like you know so let's do a drinking game on this episode okay with you know and like can you keep a running count it's count it counting because i'll tell you who randy is the worst with the you know's have you had randy on the show yet no no try oh you gotta get it you got to get him on here i'll break his balls today i'd already turn my phone off otherwise i'd tell him right now oh thank you man he's he's great he was kind of like my uh comeback episode and then i got inspired and i went into the studio and then i took another month off yeah it's hard it's very i get it it was hard dude it's hard just keep out it man but the consistency that you've shown and and uh toby shout out toby

Chauby from H2O You guys have been killing it And it's inspiring to me Because I have like a hundred something people That I want to get on That I just have never been able to get on And so now I'm figuring out like Where it went wrong or

Or how we can get it done Sure Because who's like your white whale Like who's like your number one that you want to get? I don't have a number one I have a dream guest Monkey from Corrin because he's my favorite guitar player. Dude, he's up there for me too.

And he's a... He's a hard one to get, man. I'll get him. I'll get him. Only because I think I'll bring the best out of him and turn he'll bring the best out of me. So it's kind of like, it is kind of selfish because I know he has like the key to unlock something to myself to be a future host. Yeah. So it's kind of like if I have a mind, I know he'll bring the best out of me that you apply to future...

Yeah, I could see that totally. He's an interesting cat too because I mean if we would probably have completely different things to talk about Of course, of course. Which is which was great when you had Glenn on. It was great for me because I needed I needed I thought I was going to have Nergel for episode 666 and then Nergel bailed. And I couldn't believe we got Glenn. Yeah, perfect.

So if you're going to get some. That's meant to be, dude. For episode 666. And we still had problems. like definitely either Satan or Jesus or both like they were fighting with the internet that day there was issues but yeah but it was cool because we got to discuss different stuff yeah um but monkey going back to monkey he I gave him satisfaction outback of New Haven Coliseum it's not even around anymore okay and because Scott Lee shout it to Scott Lee who doesn't

New England Metal Fest, he told me about this band, Corn. And he's like, they're not hardcore, but they're like metal, but it's not metal. It's kind of alternative. But they have this, it's going to take over. Like, it's going to be what the Metallicas and the slayers. He called it. Yes. Scott Lee called it. Yes.

And this was obviously prior to them headlining, fucking New Haven Coliseum on the Family Values. Yeah. But he had told me, you know, start going to those shows. and handing out flyers at those shows as opposed to just preach into the converted at your shows and by that time we were signed

the album had come out and it was always a dream of mine to play New Haven Coliseum because I went to WWE there and boxing and hockey we used to have the New Haven Nighthawks and sure enough I saw him out back and I gave him the CD

and I didn't ask for a tour I said one day we'll probably tour with you. He said that. Yes. And I doubt he remembers it. But, and I had done that, you know, obviously to Rob Zombie and Dino and others. I think anybody who was ever ambitious in a band was you like telling that. Yeah. And sure enough, it happened. We went to, we went to Australia with them and we did a short run with them in Europe as well. We still had, we still have not done the states with them. I don't know why. But when we were both up for that tour, when you guys got it.

Oh, you were two? Yes. Oh, shit. And I was super happy for you guys because... You know. Yes. You know. Yes.

After doing that, because that was after we did mayhem together. Yes, he was 2014 and that tour was 2016 or 17, I think. Yeah. So in talking with you guys on that mayhem tour, I absolutely... And actually, and we would sign every day while you would play, so we could tell... I hated that. Man, you wanted to just enjoy those. show sometimes man god but it was it was cool like kirk still brings that up because kirk was with me

that was when kingdom was on it yeah and so kirk will bring that up you know he knows the suicide silence set from hearing it every day at that time when we would be signing um but when you guys did that and it was underplays that was really cool because you got to play really dope yeah like Irving Plaza with corn. When I saw that routing, I was like, holy shit. Yeah. And I hope they do something like that again. I know it's not financially probably feasible,

especially when they're having the moment that they're having. Right now, yeah, they're having a straight-up moment right now. Yeah. It's cool. It's cool to see it as a fan, you know. Yeah, and I love Jonathan and Head. Those are, like, Jonathan, I think, did episode 400 for me. I watched that one, yeah.

stayed late, you know, after his solo gig in Salt Lake, I flew in to do it. It was that important for me. And he's just so gracious and so amazing. And what a, like, what a trailblazer. And then Head, his story is so fascinating. You got to get both, you got to get all of them, really. Oh, yeah, of course.

And Fieldy, where's Fieldy at? Like, he was, that was my dude when we were playing with him. I'm like, what's going on with Fieldy? Oh, who knows? We got to help him out. If you see this or hear this, Fieldy, we're rooting for you, bro. Yeah, come back, man.

Well, we're in California, so who knows, dude? You know, I mean, just keeping a band-and-gator seems almost like impossible. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, Josh said, thank you for your time. Thank you for sitting in traffic. Dude, my pleasure.

Thank you for having me and not bailing on me because I've bailed. I've bailed on people who are an hour late. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I won't lie to you. Today's not a example, but it has happened. Because sometimes you plan, you get older and you plan your day, you feel in every fucking hour.

And when someone is like 20 minutes late, an hour late, like, dude, my whole day is fucked. It's fucked. The dominole's fall. Yeah. And you can't. I know. I thought about it a few times. Like, should I just text and be like, hey, I'm out, dude.

Yeah. I wouldn't have blamed you. You know, that me out of anybody would have totally understood. But, but yeah, thank you so much because it was hell getting out here. And then after the debacle of last time where, because I never know, like, either I'm set it and forget it or I'm bother you every day until I see you. There's no in between.

Okay. And so when I came out here last time for SOD rehearsal, to do the tribute show with them, I was like, oh, man, I got to squeeze in everything. But then I didn't stay on it. And I thought someone else was. And then, you know, that's what happens. But that was actually good for me because,

it opened the door to come back, rehearse again. This time we're rehearsing with Lilker, which is going to be great. And I really got to get these songs. You got to get them down, dude. Yeah. And so I'm happy we're getting multiple rehearsals in. Nice.

And the travel, you know, travel is, it's not what it used to be. It's a crapshoot, and it's crazy. And if you're stuck, like everybody who got off the flight last night after the four hour mark, because I think it's technically illegal to keep you on a plane for more than four hours. Is it? Jay, can we...

Yeah, can you look that up? I could be just talking out of my ass, but... Illegal to hold you on a plane for over four hours. Yeah. So we boarded at seven, and then we didn't take off until 12.30. That sucks, dude. And people were bailing,

and I thought, if I bail, the 6 a.m. out here doesn't get me to my first call time. I land at 9.10. My call time's at 9. So I stuck it out, dude. At that five hour mark when you've been sitting on the plane and you're not going anywhere and they're waiting for the fuel, I'm like, if I get off, it's going to take off. Yeah. And then they didn't have my hotel when I got there.

And so you know the deal with traveling. It's like it's not what it was. And it seems like people are less, they're just hiring less experienced people and people who are less knowledgeable of what they actually do. Like the girls like checking me in says I don't even know this new system and I'm like so so you see this Oh I see it everywhere it's it's and I know I hate to be like that because I want to be like mr. Optimism and I want to be like of course yeah because I appreciate everybody who does a good job It doesn't and I treat everybody equally like I don't whether you're sweeping up or you're the CEO Yeah if you're doing a good job and you're and you're putting your heart into it then respect

but man it is rough out there right now when you're traveling it is man have you seen it pre 9-11 I don't have any kind of

so we started touring full time after that happened so we don't really know like the difference of full-time plane travel was there like a big switch and actually at one point I mean I remember being a kid

we didn't travel a lot but we traveled twice and it was a big trip each time and I remember it was like almost like a lot luxury where it was you were treated differently the food was good i mean i did one flight where people were still smoking on the flight that was that was wild and i remember that that was a trip that would be annoying dude do you do when people smoke inside i get really fucking annoyed dude gosh dan canny gosh

oh god well to toby you know shout toby from h2 oh he i was telling him we both know people pre nine 11 that went to europe and went to canada did full tours on different passports no snitching We'll never say, sure. But it was, I mean, that was a thing, especially if you had a criminal record

or if you were from the punk or the hardcore scene. Yo, I didn't even think about that. Dude, you might know them. Maybe you might even have had a couple people on the podcast. I mean,

there's multiple, and dude, what's crazy is back in the van touring days, I would just bail on all the tickets. And then we entered into this what we're in now, which is like a full, blown surveillance state

and never stopped either all the all the computers are communicating I'm lucky it didn't really fuck my shit up because I went I had to go to court they give you tickets while you're going to court that's how they perpetuate this system this fine system

so they're out there waiting so you're going to court to pay some sort of violation that they connected you to like I had to pay shit from Texas from like 98 like they got all this information and they Yes, and they will put out warrants. Dude, it's crazy what's happening right now.

Dude, it's wild. It's all connected, dude. And they wait. So I saw it and I saw, I'm like, thank God I made some money in my career and I can get out of this perpetual cycle because it's devastating for people. They're in there crying, trying to get their license. They took off work. They're doing court dates. But I got it all cleaned up.

Cleaned up. I paid out the ass. I had to get my license reinstated in New York reinstated in Texas, reinstated in Connecticut reinstated in Rhode Island yeah because they all started communicating It's like this guy is he's a mess And it went no they're just

They're just trying to get paid And what are you going to do? You're going to fight it? And you can't fight it either You're going to pay to fight it? And so then Is that worse? Dude one of the court dates I went to They gave me

They tried to give me a jaywalking ticket And they tried to give me a parking ticket And I was There, I had paid a j-walking ticket from like 2004 or something in Texas. It was insane. A j-walking ticket, dude. Yeah, I don't know if anybody else has dealt with this or if I was singled out. But back in the day, you get a ticket.

You're going, I'm in the van. These guys are sleeping on the gear. You can't pay the ticket. You're going 60 miles an hour and a 45 or whatever. You would rip up the ticket. You know what I mean? You're like, fuck this. and why would you don't have the money to pay it what are you going to do yeah you got

they have their quota you know and i know that's going to piss off a lot of people they got a lot of like people who are very rule based and law based and all the it's like they got a touch of the tism where they have to follow every rule and every law they won't they push the button they won't nobody's coming but they won't walk like there are people like that and they write me on my podcast all the time oh yeah i can only imagine you're emails why did you see this why why you say that you fucking suck it's like oh man everybody's outraged about something different every day but it's okay and a lot of times they don't even remember they don't it's just something they say in the in the heat of the moment when they're triggered by

something um and then they then you see the same email is buys 50 things in the store oh wow and you go all right well yeah what do you do yeah yeah i got to a really good quote from from you just to help if people are talking bad about you well that makes you more successful and that took me a long time to learn i still haven't really fully learned i'm probably at like 95 percent but it's true yeah you got to kind of let it fuel you you don't want to be totally fueled by that but you have to kind of let it a little bit gasoline yeah a little wind in your sales yeah there's nothing wrong with that but it's not sustainable that's true you have to get to a point where you're just happy with who you are and

and your little quirks or the things that maybe they don't like about you or they don't like about the show. Someone else, it's their favorite thing about you. Yeah. And I think that just comes with age or just comes with experience because even people that I didn't like or I had a preconceived notion about, I've had on the show or I've had interactions with at a festival. And I was like, wow, it was totally wrong. I'm the same way. Yeah. You're like, for some reason, like, things could influence you the way you think and feel about people until you actually meet them or have like a full on two hour long conversation.

Like, oh, wow. And then you kind of get like their background. Oh, well, I thought was actually completely wrong. Yeah. And we're, unfortunately, we're living in the time where there's, there's a lot of social currency to be had in victimhood. And I was terrible. Right now, it's so bad. Yeah.

And that's, I like, that's something I've spoken about out about. Years. Because I was that kid I was that kid at 15 and 16 And I realized that that is a dark path Everybody I saw that was like that Is either dead in jail Worse sick

It makes you sick to think like that It makes you physically sick I believe that too I believe you're thinking If it's negative thinking I believe that's where sickness comes from Like later on either in your 30s 40s It creeps up

You get sick Yeah yeah have to keep it in check because you really don't know the ramifications like subconsciously that it's having and then also i think with the way that you can get attention from it even though you think it's positive attention i think people's reactions to it are not necessarily even truthful or yeah or helpful right like i and i've been in that place like especially when we first started the band where you're getting passed up for tours or you're

you can't even get your record reviewed or you'll see somebody who's you know they bought onto the cover of the magazine or they bought on the tour or their first tours in a bus and focusing on that that little thing pops up that little inner bitch pops up

yep and it's easy to do because it takes the pressure off you to put yourself in that position yeah or a better position and And one thing I've noticed, especially in the last, say, like two or three years, is that when you, when you purposely shut down any victimhood mentality, you start, you start to vibrate at like a higher frequency. 100. Yeah.

It just affects who, who you are. And that energy is, like, contagious. If you're, if you're negative or positive, it says, oh, you're a positive person. And people just kind of gravitate towards it. It's weird. It is. Even animals and shit, it changes. Yeah.

Yeah. Also, if I'm around like, if I'm around like animal, I'll try to be like, like control my emotional. I don't want them to know I'm afraid or nervous because then they'll, they probably feel it because they have higher senses than I do. So I try to just be chill around like a dog or something or or I be like, I'll be at a walk in and there'll be like some coyotes. So I'll walk towards them. control my emotional state. It's like I'm not, I'm not afraid. And I hope they feel that.

They do. I do it. I have so many animal stories. Biohazard, if you ever get by, you've got to get biohazard on. Be honored. Biohazard. Shout out to Danny Schuller.

He's playing with me at my thrash Thursday show on April 24th. He's coming up and jamming at dingbats. I'd never play dingbats in my career. I hear it's a legendary venue. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, we always played Starland or wherever else. And so this is cool.

We're doing a Josta Thrash Thursday. And Danny's going to, but Danny can vouch for me. And so can Bobby. We've gone to multiple zoos. And the shit that has happened, like, because Bobby is one of those high frequency people. He's just got a heart of gold. Just the best dude. What habit?

He's a, he's a legend, right? And this lady's like, please, you can't have the soda in here. You can't have the soda in here. And he's like, it's all right. You know, and he's like trying to like put it in his jacket or whatever. And we go over to this monkey exhibit. And the monkeys can actually swing over to this railing. But they're fenced in.

But the fence, when they reach their arm through the fence, they can actually reach the railing. And he put the soda there for one second. And this monkey comes over and grass. And it was like a full mountain dew. And he just, and he's like, yeah, he was so pumped. And he looked at Bobby and it was like they were related. It was so hilarious and he chugs the soda.

It's like, ah, and it throws the box. The monkey chugged the soda? Yeah, and it was just, it was crazy. I'm not, people are going to think this is, Danny can vouch for me, Bobby can vouch for me too. People are going to think this is, I'm full of shit, but the lady that's guide, she goes, she goes, yeah, there's this one elephant. They, they kind of, you know, he's having problems mating and he's, we keep putting him in there with the females and they're, they're shoeing him or whatever. and Danny and Bobby and these guys are like, well, we got a lot of testosterone.

We'll give him some, we'll give them like a pep talk when we go over there to the elephants. And dude, I'm not kidding you. We go over there and we lock eyes with this elephant. We're like, come on, bro. And he, dude, he hit it. He started to get up.

He, like, took control. The lady of mine was blown. I still can't believe it happened. For the first time, he got like a, you ever seen an elephant erection? I haven't seen one. Oh, dude, don't Google that. But yeah, he did this.

And the lady couldn't believe that it was happening. She's like, you guys brought good luck because they're trying to, they're trying to have a mate so they could have a baby elephant at the zoo. So, so does elephant couldn't get a boner or something? And then he. Yeah, dude. And then we were, we came in and gave him the pep talk. But dude, it was crazy. Sometimes you didn't get talked up.

It was. He, I swear, my mother, she gave me like a book when I was a kid called him. Animal Speak. Can you look at stuff? Animal speak, I think it's called. Because I've always had these encounters where, yes, that's it. There's a lot of good shit in this book. Ted Andrews, shout out to Ted Andrews.

Ted Andrews. And it tells you about your various encounters. You might like it. The spiritual and magical powers of creatures great and small. Yeah, because you might, like, you might go to the trail and all of a sudden a baby coyote comes up to you, and now you got to raise it. I've had this happen with squirrels, with cats, with dogs, with, with, uh, one time I had a possum, which we really thought the pot, we, we, we thought we were going to have to have this thing as a pet.

But, um, so yeah, I've had a lot of animal encounters. Um, but, oh, so back to, we, we went off on a tangent, back to what I was going to say was, uh, was about the whole, um, you know, the, the, the victim mentality and how that kind of has a currency online. It never, like, you'll see somebody they'll be like, oh, this band, this, or they'll snitch on some guy in a band, or this guy liked this post,

or they did this, or they... Oh, my's the worst. And, but then, you go to that band's show and it's pat. And it's... And the merch line is crazy. Yeah. And the people are so thrilled. And like, and these are bands where

the guitar player will walk to the one side. And the whole side cheers or the singer is yeah is in contact with the front row and they are waiting on every word that he's saying and they're and they're they're moving as like a collective consciousness and I don't think that that victim mentality can I don't think it actually can corrupt the collective consciousness it might be able to do that in the algorithm or on the on the screen but that's like some devil shit like that's some some some fakery

and reality is so different reality is different yeah when you uh if you have an experience in your life and then you actually see a show you go oh this is different from what I'm reading this is it's a whole other like yeah yeah my my perception of reality has been definitely altered as like good older you know that that that tour of corn fucking that shit happened after Mitch you know so it's like having like your dream come true after so my perception of reality is just like what's even real what's the fuck it right you know it's it's fucking gnarly dude that's an interesting point yeah because you would you would have thought oh yeah we we were more deserving of this or or or it would have been more impactful had it been with mitch but that's the inner enemy telling you that that's

not real it's it is what it is it is and it's how it was supposed to be yeah anything bad in your life. It's hard to be like, uh, that sucked, but it's really hard to be like, I wish I did this different and wish I did this different, which we were older. So it's probably a long list. But man, it makes you the person you want today. So it's like, it's this weird why I like who I am right now that I want to be this way that didn't happen. So it's like this, I can't even put words to it. Well, you guys had to get thicker skin at a different period of time. And that's, I feel for these bands going through it now because i mean they straight up they get bullied and they just break the band i'm like what was that that's got fucking you're like bro you worked your whole life yeah like everybody

tuesday for us i'm like you should have been on my my space when i was on tv every saturday night it was a dumpster fire oh my well uh well well well jamie this might be a good uh segue how i mean you got thick skin because you grew up in no haven correct yeah and you were weren't you the first first in your family to go to public school? Yes. My brother and my sister both went to private school. I think partially my brother being younger than me, partially because of how it worked out for me at public school.

But also I think, you know, that was at a time where my father was doing really good. You know, he had phases because he was in Vietnam, comes home, starts a family, then starts to feel the effects of PTSD. Oh, wow. And then starts to self-medicate, things like that, has to go to the VA, has to get treatment,

has to have psych evaluations, dealing with flashbacks and things like that. So with my sister, I think it was like, yeah, we want to get her in the best school. Because this is the 80s. This is the late 70s, early 80s when that was a thing. Like it was like, even if you didn't come from months,

or your parents or your grandparents didn't cover money, if you could afford to put your kid into a private school as opposed to a public school, that was like an accomplishment. You were doing the right thing. But I think for me, because I was never meant to go to any sort of school, I think it was probably better that I, if you're gonna flunk out of public school, if you're gonna have behavioral problems or issues with other students,

it's probably better to do it at a public school than at a private school where now you're not, not only you're having all these issues, but now your parents are eating this huge loss financially. Yeah. Didn't your grandfather also serve as well? Yes. My grandfather served in Guadalcanal,

and my grandfather had also fallen on hard times. I really want to get my dad on the podcast to talk about this because my grandfather was kind of, we never really talked about it because it was kind of like a family secret. I think it's okay to talk about it now. Family secrets, man. Um, he was kind of run out. I don't want to say run out of town, but it was, he was involved with, uh, some dealings

with a shady politician. I, I thought about even maybe putting this in my book. If I ever, if I ever get the time to release the book, I don't know if I'd have to change the names because of the politician has relatives that are, um, I think still alive. And that's, that is an issue. There was, it was never like, proved in court. but he kind of had to move away and then after time he came back.

But I used to go visit him at the base in Grotton. You know, Connecticut is like, it's like at one point it was the East Coast Arsenal. I mean, we had all these manufacturers of ammunition and guns and submarines and helicopter. We still have obviously Sokorsky making the helicopters and we have obviously the base in Grott and shout out to everybody who works. That kind of explains it because, yeah, I mean, I remember. like you're like you you've had not you but like can i kentka has had like multiple mayors and governors like busted for being corrupt i yes i i many i didn't know that connect it was uh that

attached to like making that stuff yeah i had no idea it's it's pretty wild but that have you're making submarines dude yeah think about that and we have submarines pointed at us off the coast think about that think about that there's there's there's other countries, and look this up. This is not me put on my tinfoil hat. There are other countries that have submarines out in international waters. But that was a big thing for me being able to go out to Groton and go shop at the PX. And that was one of the first times where I saw heavy music was on sale at the PX.

And you go, wow, who somebody at Metallica's label, at Stone Temple Pilots label, or that was when I realized, oh, this is different. This is not like Rhymes Records or this is not like the, you know, the, the misfits record that I would buy at the mom and pop shop. This was, they had metal and they had rock there. And that was like the first kind of worm in my brain of like, oh, if I ever make my band do anything, I got to get my music here. Because all the servicemen and women were buying music there. I mean, they had other stuff too. Okay.

Like they even had, um, they even had Nirvana never mind in there. I was like when that first came out. Um, but yeah. So he, he eventually moved back, uh, to New Haven and we still have that house. We, my, my father was smart and, um, you know, because we had my uncles and other family members, anybody who would fall in hard times, we would basically have life use of this one property. And now my brother's taking it over because my aunt... Your brother's going to take it over.

Yeah, and it's great because... And rest in peace, my aunt, Susie, she was living there before she passed. And that was a big deal for us because when my father fell on hard times and then got out of the VA and my parents got divorced, we went and lived there.

We were living in bunk beds with my two uncles. Yeah, and your grandparents, too. Yes. Yeah. Yes, and now we would have, you know, I would say, hey, you've got to let Earth crisis stay here. You know, they're going to give me a show

in Syracuse. and they would meet my uncle Pauli, rest in peace. You know, he's another one that's gone. And they would meet my uncle Mike. And a lot of people have met my uncle Mike because he works at a famous pizzeria, Sally. Shout out to my uncle Mike. He's made the sauce for many years.

But being able to have that place and not only be able to offer it as a place where the bands could come stay was a big deal. And we needed it when we didn't have the money to go you know buy another house yeah so so you're the first one of your family to go to public school and he stopped going because at some point new haven kind of got sketchy and basically like you couldn't walk unless you're going to get into a fight essentially correct yeah i mean it's looking

back at it now there was a great scene of artists and creatives and people that would hang out at the cafe and and all around new haven you know near toad's place i'm sure you know that area from playing in there but um but in high school when i when i got in trouble and i basically got expelled i was yeah it was sick and it wasn't even over anything good it was over some graffiti but because the person who actually did the graffiti was related to someone who was pretty high up in a group that I did not want the trouble with. Oh, wow. I knew that if I had, I knew that I had to just.

Take the hit? Yeah, and say it was me. And I could tell it was, it was. Were you tagging? Yeah. Kind of a little bit? Yeah. And then I realized that there was ramifications to,

um, to that in general because there were people that, you know, even if you went a little bit near there, or if you went over one of their friends by accident or on purpose or whatever that could lead to real life consequences and that's a whole fascinating thing that still goes on especially out here you see it everywhere and that's it's kind of similar to music in a way because they're just out there making their mark on the world yeah but with vandalism yeah uh in a way and so learning about some of that culture and knowing all right i'm not this i'm not cut out for this like didn't get the thrill of it going to the train yard.

But I knew why others did, and I respected them for their daredevil activities and their adrenaline rush. I could never deal with that. Like, I didn't want to be looking over my shoulder for the cops. And actually, my father meeting my stepmom, shout out to my stepmom, Kathy. Like him, us all leaving, you know, the bunk bed situation moving in with her was just a game change, our life change. Like I had always driven out there and tried to go to parties and tried to go to like meet girls out there.

And like the suburbs was even though New Haven is not super. I mean, I would say, I wouldn't say it's super poor. There's areas that are super poor. I would say it's like lower middle class or it was in the 80s. But going out to where they moved, to me it was like we were going to Beverly Hills. So and I had cold as life stay there. I had. And that was cool.

Because now it's like, yo, we got a pool. I mean, yeah, it's not an in-ground pool. It's above-ground. But even then, that was, like, fancy. Was it, so was it your stepmom that was working nights and then you would skink out and go to the moon? Yeah, that was actually at my old apartment, at my first house. That was, that was early 90s. The moon was legendary.

They had biohazard, yeah, there it is. Biohazard typo-negative, exploited. Nirvana was scheduled to. play, I think they canceled. I don't know if Melvin's ended up still playing. I went to a lot of shows there. You saw like hardcore, ska. Wait, did Nirvana play? Here we go. This is it. Wow. So wait, am I in this? Crank this a little bit? Am I, am I, am I in this? We got to see this. Is that me right there? Wow. Nirvana played there? Because I know, because people will tag me in videos where I'm at,

like, someone just tag me in a video where I'm diving off the stage at a killing time. Shout out to killing time. Yes. Holy shit. Okay. I think the Melvin's open. What did it say on the flyer? It checks out.

I'm sure we could find a flyer. Yeah, but they had some great shows. I was just talking to Toby about it. We went to Fugazi at the tune-in, and Ian Mackay threw us out for moshing. And that was like, that was the beginning. That was the genesis of Haypreed. was like, I can't believe the guy from minor threat doesn't want people to mosh.

And I was like, all I want to do is people to the mosh. Yeah. That's a thing? So who was special gets head? Okay. You know, I think there was another tour. It's Corbin head. Right.

I think there was another. I want to say there was another tour that they canceled. And it was with the Melvins and they were going to come back to New Haven. Maybe not at the moon. The moon might have been closed by then. You think you. You were there? I think I was there, yeah.

You've been to that many shows there probably. Well, also this is back, so this is back in the time of experimenting with acid. Okay. And actually one time, one time I did go to see what I thought was going to be the Melvins, but it was actually another band called Those Melvins. There's a band called Those Melvins? Yes. Can you look that up?

Oh, okay. Maybe those Melvins at the moon. Then I'm in that video for sure, because I was definitely at that show. Those Melvins. See? Elmer's season. There's another band called, wait, is that Those Melvins with Sergeant Slaughter?

It looks like if those Melvins slash Big Train. Wow. But yeah, there's a lot of good shows. At both, at both the Urban Jungle, the Moon, then the Urban Jungle became the tune in. So at what point did you start jamming with the Hapry guys? Didn't you borrow your grandfather's car when you were 16 and then drove?

Yes. Yeah, and did you get like a call or like what? At one point, yeah, because Dave and Chris were in Frostbite and they were like a legit band. Like they sounded good. They had like good gear or what I thought was good gear. Yeah. But when I was in, because I was in Jostah 14 and when I was in Jostah 14, there was a bunch of bands that would play together.

And usually, you know, you could borrow gear. But that's how I first realized, like, Who was like a musician and who like the quality of the gear the the guitar? Yeah. But then I also didn't want to be a musician. I just wanted to be in a band and network and just I liked the progressive stuff. I liked the jazzy. There's some stuff that I liked of that, but I just wanted primal caveman.

Just day one. Yeah. Because that was that was the stuff that really connected. with me and I think a lot of it was madball, earth crisis, integrity, but even bands like machine head, there's something really, even though they were really proficient at what they were doing, there was something very primal and caveman-esque, especially on that lineup with Adam D and, and Contos on drums.

Yeah. Yeah, so we called the album Bust, because Bust was what you, with the album I'm talking about, they, they're fucking demo. tape yeah yeah I'm not on that one but but so that um we called it bust because that was the breakdown was before it was called the breakdown was called the bust really yeah yeah so we're like and i was like yo i like these songs but we need more of the bust like just i want the whole set to be the breakdown it's like i want to bust the whole set and you would try to just yeah you would try to describe it and i would just go dead embryonic cells raining blood like you had examples and that was it And then so Earth crisis, when they were blowing up, I was like, wow, this is amazing.

They, it's raining blood. Like when you listen to raining blood and then you listen to firestorm, it's the same, right? It's just the, it's the evolution or whatever. It's their way of paying homage. Yeah. Hmm. To that. And so I was like, yeah, I just want to do that.

I would tell Zach Wilde, like now that I, now it's crazy to go from being in a station wagon, listening to no more tears to then doing songs and recording and. touring and hosting a TV show and having Zach, wow. I used to tell Zach, dude, you don't understand. Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. I go, I made a whole career out of that. I go just that part. Think about that, right?

When you hear, of course, the rest of it's cool. The baseline, Ozzy comes in. Yeah. But when you hear that turn in the riff, can we hear it or you can't do it on YouTube? Yeah, we got like seven seconds. Yeah? I mean, I made a whole 30 plus year career. And then listen, when this shit comes in, I was like, bottle this?

Right here. Just put that on repeat. Bottle that. Make seven records. There it is. There it is. Thank you, Zach. Called a hate period.

What year was that? Yeah. When did this record come out? I mean this is and that's 80s correct because we had so pre-cable we still had a black and white TV get this pre-cable there was oh yeah oh 91 okay so yeah so I was 14 or 15 so that but also I think a rise might predate that because there was a video there was a public access channel and I remember is either it maybe 91 or 92 but it was there was a public access channel playing metal videos and it blew my fucking mind.

I saw that. Then I saw Sepulterra. And then I saw Queens-Rike Silent Lucidity, which, by the way, underrated smash hit, Silent Lucidity. Okay.

Soft as shit. But so good. What year was that? Anyways. So, but... 90. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, because I waited in line to get Chaos AD. So it was, and a rise was before KSAD. So yeah, it was, I don't know. I can't remember which video they did for a rise, but I just remember watching it on a black and white TV going, this is the great, like this is one of the best things I've, and I thought, at that point I thought Metallica was hard, Slayer was hard, but you put those first three on from Arise.

And I've said this since it came out. Is there a better three piece out of the gate? Three bangers out of the gate. Like, I'm sorry, Slayer. Those three off of a rise go to, no, yeah, there you go to Sable toer. Those three, they go toe to toe with any three out of the gate for Slayer. Yeah, what year did that come out? Yeah, 91.

I don't know what video was. Here it is. Is it the title track? Yes. Yep, this is it. What track is this? Arise. One or two or...

I mean, dude, this... So I was watching this on a black and white TV on public access going... My life was changed. I was like, this is... And people, there was metalheads in my school that they called them Baby Slayer, and that was like a thing.

Baby Slayer, really? That was like a thing. Dude, there was, so punk rockers and metalheads were still beefing a lot at this time. Okay. There was a show where, God Rest the Soul, the original singer from Faith No More. I went to Toe's Place. It was Bad Brains and a Connecticut punk band called Lost Generation. Chuck Mosley, rest in peace.

This is pre-in-net. So people didn't know that HR wasn't going to be there. And it was on the Quickness album. Okay. And punk rockers were literally outside mad Like they weren't gonna go in Because bad brains had gone metal Oh wow

They're still doing that Right but the show was packed The whole place was a pit Chuck Molesley was on fire He was doing the flips and the dives And everything like HR So if you were in the back You were and you're a kid like me

You were none the wiser Yeah And he sounded amazing I wonder if you could pull up Bad Brains at Toad's place Toad's place To me it felt like To me it felt like

A thousand people in unison going crazy. We might watch the video and it's like 50 people. But it was, it was, I think, whatever year in quickness came out. 92, 91, 92. I might even know it would come out sooner. 95? No, quickness, I think, was earlier. But.

But HR, I just hear the stories how what a fucking legend he was. I know. I'm always weary of saying, certain HR stories because I don't know if they're true or they're not true. We've heard so many. Legends. Yes.

And I don't want to say something, you know, because obviously I have a deep respect for HR. But like one time I told a story about the birds. Like did you ever hear the thing about him on the plane and he had the birds? No. I guess he was carrying around a bird cage or whatever.

And then people were like, don't say that you're spreading rumors and i was like no no no i that was just a story that i had heard that and i don't know was it a service bird was it was it was it a pet was he allowed to take it yeah um but yeah it was with chuck moseley they played they played toad's place and it was just the energy was unreal and i also went there for carcass cathedral brutal truth okay and napalm. Of course. And that was the one where I was like, wait.

So, and that was when I saw, oh, wait, so there's punk rockers that were at the bad bring show. They also like carcass. So then I kind of got this like idea of like, oh, yeah, you can be, you can, you can be different things to different people. Yeah. As a band, you can actually appeal to all walks of life. Yeah. It's just the ones that are the elitists that are stuck in this, this band do. make the record that I like, so I feel like a victim.

Yeah, it's so weird. Right? Yeah, it's so weird. How, at this point, how old are you? Dude, this is 15, 16. When did you get a... There it is. Okay, so that was 95. You're right. Bad brain? No, maybe that was a later show. It seems like a later show, right? I mean, that might have been when they were... They're probably been there a few times. That could have been it. That's also a comp ticket, too. No posers. Look at this. Oh, no posers, dude. I'm not allowed there. That's sick, dude.

Yeah, so you guys had to have tougher, you had to get thicker skin at a different time period. And now these bands coming up, oh my gosh, I really feel for them because I want them to, I really do want them to, pardon the pun, persevere because it's, don't give up on your dream and don't give up on all your efforts because, one or two people or bot farms.

You don't even know. It could just be bots. You don't even. It could be someone that hired bots against you. They've been saying that, do you like, sometimes I look at comments, I'm like, are these real people? Or some of these are actually real people?

I don't know. Oh, on my Twitter, there was ones that definitely were not. Well, there it is. 91. Yeah, this is it. Boom. Bad brains with Faith No More's Chuck. and back then

this felt like I was in an arena like this felt like right you remember that yeah you're like wow this place is big dude holy shit I'm like this is the pinnacle

like Ramones play there and then I went down there because I was like oh I might flyer the show and they were touring in a van yeah and they were in a van and I was like wait Ramones are in a van yeah

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, wait. And I'm like, this is insane. Mm-hmm. But that's, now we know. Now we know. Yeah, I've really followed Johnny and his story. Like, yeah, they didn't start making money until like later on in their career was like damn sad.

Yeah. And that talk about hit after hit. Yeah. Life-changing punk rock hits. And so. But they won't really hit until even later. I know. But that, it's, that's the magic.

of the music, it finds the ears and eyes that it needs to find. That's real magic. Think about that. At the gates made a whole scene. We opened for them. They joked around. When we saw them in Europe, like 10 years later,

they're like, you open for us. Remember, and we're like, oh, shit, we did. It was sick of it all. It was Napeum death, at the gate, sick of it all, hate breed sub-zero. Yeah, I bet you the flyer has to come up because people tag, tag me in it.

It was at the 7 Willow Street in Portchester. And then so then, and dude, people were outside smoking during at the gates. And I'm like, what is wrong with these people? And then they go away and they literally created an entire scene. I know, Assumian bands just copy that little, those fucking first four songs, dude. That's it. That's it, dude. It's like, wow.

I mean, that's incredible. That just shows, like, don't give up. No, dude. You can come back. Even if you come back 10 years later, bigger than ever. You never know. Okay, so, Jamie, so you're 1920. You're, you just become a new father.

You file for bankruptcy, correct? Yes, I filed, but it never went through. Thank God, because I would have fucked my credit. But I went down that route. And you couldn't even put gas in your car. Yeah. And I've been thinking about that lately because when I moved, I found the paperwork. And I think I basically, I don't know, I think I kind of got scammed by the attorneys because I think the attorney ended up going and working for the record label.

And that's a thing that happens where they'll see somebody who they think is a good litigator and then they go and they change sides or whatever. Because this obviously, you know, record label is going to have more money than a poor artist. Holy crap You know at that time I thought I mean weren't you I mean I was trying to line up the time Okay wait so he's he's struggling But then you're also talking like

Staying positive like I think you were You were you working on satisfaction At that at that particular time No it was out and we knew That it was a dead end With this label and we just And we were like it's okay Again it's like goes back

to other people's ceiling and what they thought the ceiling was. Because people would put a preconceived ceiling on you, right? Absolutely. And they would go, Earth Crisis only sold this amount of records. Sigurdol only sold to this amount of records. And we would crash through these ceilings. And then I always felt like the target would get moved, so to speak. Yeah, yeah.

It always moves. It keeps moving too. Yes, always. And that's why now is so amazing, because there's less gatekeepers and there's less people who are actively trying to fuck over bands. I mean, they're still out there. They're out there, yeah.

Yeah, and you got to beware. Because I just ran into a bad situation recently, actually, with a marketing company. We don't have to get into that. But you have to be really, you have to be really careful of who you work with and when because especially when you're a young kid

you notice that right where these labels they will sign you when you're the day you turn 18 yeah and you're just idiot and it's like man I'm a fucking prep cook dude I need I need money yeah right yeah and we're doing a record where it's like you gotta

get you only have this amount of money and then I would hear from other bands like you all you guys you sold all these seven inches all these demos you're packing out all these shows and you only have this amount for the budget and then it was like are you looking at the accounting? Why are you paying for all this advertising? Why are you having a recoup at this rate? And of course, that was standard at the time. And you can't really blame the label. Like, now I look back and I go, yeah, that might have been victim mentality. Like, that might have been

me just not taking command of the situation and communicating right. But when you're that young, and you have no reference, business acumen. You don't have, right. And then you're talking to attorneys, and they you talk on the phone for a half hour and then you get a bill and you get invoiced and you're like oh shit well I have so many more questions how am I even going to afford this yeah but um luckily that didn't go through because I needed I needed to have good credit yeah and um and luckily universal bought us out I mean that was I still all same so during that same time time period yeah yeah because wow universal Monty and Avery, shout out to Monty and Avery.

We just licensed Perseverance. It's out on vinyl now if anybody wants to check it out. I don't know if you know of any other bands who have licensed, successfully licensed, their record from a major label. I mean, that's got to be a first. Maybe we'll see more of that. I don't know. I don't know if it's a first.

I shouldn't say that. Is this recent? Yeah. And shout out to them because now I think we'll probably do rise of brutality too but at the time it was just it was a huge it was a big deal because they got our records everywhere like they got our records into that px they got our records into walmart into best buy and totally everywhere yeah yeah that that person of errands was was everywhere and we were we're charting on billboard we stayed on the the hard 200 chart for like years uh with that album

and um and even though it was leaked like early on that was another thing like we were one Hey man, there's people that are stealing his fucking record. They don't want you on the charts. They don't want you to succeed. So they're going to try to leak this. And they did and probably cost us a gold album. But you just got a roll with it. There's nothing you could do.

Thank God it all came back with the streaming and even bigger songs. Because they said that, okay, enjoy your 15 minutes of fame. You're done. You're over. And some of the haters were right. Like they fired the whole staff because that was another thing. I didn't realize these people don't have 10, 20 year contracts at the label. They're lucky.

It's revolving door. Yeah, right. So right before rise of brutality, they laid off like 11,100 people and lost your publicist and the whole. Everybody. That sucks, dude. Everybody. And it was, and it was, it was fucked up, too, because we, we had all this stuff lined up, like the Slayer tour. Yeah.

And I was trying out as the hosts for headbangers and stuff. So I thought, man, to me, that felt like you should have had people believing in what you were doing. But when you listen to that record, because we weren't, honestly, they had ideas of like, oh, do this, do that, change it up, try a different thing. And they weren't pushing it on us at all. They were just, they were cool. Everybody was cool at Universal. I really, I really didn't have any qualms. The only reason why I wanted to get off and go to.

Roadrunner and thank God Roadrunner bought us out. Wow. Was because... Two for two. There wasn't... Yeah, well, and because I knew some of the staff at Roadrunner and I knew there would be challenges there as well. But the thing was that we were almost recouped.

And that wasn't a thing then. Like, bands didn't recoup. So I think the... I don't want to speak out of term, but because I've already probably spoken. spoke it had to turn multiple times on this podcast. I appreciate that. But I think it, I think it was probably less than 100 grand

that was still unrecooped. And I think that Roadrunner paid. So thank you, Roadrunner. But even then, once we got to Roadrunner, new challenges arise, right? Because then the scene changes. And now it's like, you have all these other records

that are coming out at the same time. Trivium had a gigantic push. So we knew we're only going to get. And we should, We should ask Gitter. Like we knew we're going to get a fifth or less of the push than Trivium. Because this has clean singing. They're going to be on Iron Maiden tours and Megadeth tours.

And they got the noodling. Like that was when noodling was ready to go. It's in. It's in. People are shredding. Think about that Ozfest that we did. Thank God we stuck to our guns and stayed the caveman route with like all those, destroy everything and into the threshold.

Because we were actually like a breath of fresh air when it came to all those other bands. Like it was a lot of noodling. And I like, don't get me wrong, I like the noodling. Like there's, look at that. I mean, that's crazy. Look at that crowd. So this, actually, but this is on perseverance. The one that we did the main stage, it's like dragon force, avenged.

Oh, yeah. I mean, you're talking shredders and we're out there. palming fucking e-cords. Yeah, chugging, dude. Standard seed chugs, dude. Yeah. So. Who does solos?

Fuck that, dude. But, but, but, and people can look it up. Look up the sound scan for supremacy. I think it was still probably neck and neck with Trivium and Megadeth. Really? With, with, for scans, I mean, it's, um, it's probably, if you compared all those records at that time, it's probably slightly less than those other two

without the big budget videos, without, you know, a lot of the push. But I get it. But that's why if you're an artist and you're, you know, maybe not what people think is marketable at that time, that's all just educated guesses from people,

working at labels and radio stations. It's not, and that's why it's so awesome to see the bands like Kublai Khan and knocked loose and Spira Box and all these bands like just busting through all those ceilings now. Well, not what bands like knock loose, uh, no disrespect to them, but like you like you literally made the road. Like, well, thank you. Heypere literally made like the fucking track and made fucking clean it up. Now, and they now could just fucking just jog or just walk it, boom.

But they, I think they are one of the best. examples of crashing through those ceilings and proving all the suits wrong, especially with the TV appearances and stuff, because we were always told no because of the name or no because of the crowd or no because of the style of dancing. So, and, and look, we're not reinventing the wheel. We're just, we were just emulating the earth crises and the madballs and the integrities and the bolt throwers and the entombs. Like, one of our first tours was with Intumed.

And I remember, I waited in line to get, um, we'll, Now I remember what metal elitists were like that was a sellout because I mean think about that they thought Wolverine blues was a sellout because that was on Columbia or whatever or it was slower like it wasn't like left-hand path with the grind and I'm thinking this is so heavy and so amazing that it's like full of hell and those songs on that record oh my god there's so many bangers on it so when we did that tour it was on to shoot that one it was on the ride shoot record it they had already kind of gone toward toward like the death and roll

okay but and rest in peace LG what a legend but they were like they were they were flattered that we loved them and they were like you know we were like dude we we you know we we lifted your riffs we fucking worship you guys and it was it was so cool for them to

take us on tour. That's dope. And they were another one that was like they just plowed through all that adversity and all that whatever you want to call it. Like the fans, maybe not jelling with one or two records, but now everybody loves those records.

Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned that you're a fan of creator. Love creator. And you said that so I have a selfist question. So because I'm not familiar with them at all. I'm not like a, I can't name one record. But you mentioned that they have a couple records

that like when people didn't like but all the records that came after those, people ended up being classics. Yes. What is that about? So, and I don't know, I don't know if, I don't know if I got into that with Miller when he was on the podcast when we did,

that was another thing I really felt like I willed into existence because then when we first went to Europe, I was like, I gotta bring my creator shirts and I was cool. Of course. You know, and Wayne, I remember Wayne, even before me, he was diehard creator fan and Frank too. But Frank's older than us. Or at least older than me, I think he's more same age as Wayne.

But with Full Force, 2003, 2004, in Germany, we're playing high up on the bill. I'm like, I gotta wear my creator shirt and show respect. And this was at a time where it was like, no hardcore bands can play Vakken and no hardcore band gets good reaction at these metal festivals. And we just went out and crushed it. People were chanting before we played.

We had Piro. Nice. And we brought Piro at Vokkin. It was, it was, what? Look at this. Wow. Hardcore band had Piro. This, like, this one.

So, so, it's a big moment, man. Yeah. And so Creator heard about it. But Creator was an inspiration to me because they, they, they course corrected. Okay. And they played to their strengths. Yeah. And then without a big label, like this is on,

like Violent Revolution is on SPV. Okay. Which at the time is not a big label. But whoever SPV hired in the States, they brought it to Headbanger's Ball. And I, if the program was Justin time at the time, shout out to Justin. The credit should go to him because I remember,

Remember them showing me the list of videos. I'm like, oh my God, new creator. I'm like, and it was violent revolution. And listen to this. It's so fucking hard. This is, like, creators back. So it's just the first record after they had some kind of. It was, even now when you go listen to the records in between this and say, like, cause for conflict.

I like them because I'm a real fan. But at the time, again, this is pre-Google, pre-internet. it was there was one that was like kind of like people people didn't even really like at least the metal heads that I knew they thought cause for conflict was too biohazard like they because they toured with biohazard or whatever but the record is hard like I love cause for conflict because I was into biohazard and sick of it all yeah but there was one called renewal and there was another one either the one before renewal or the one after renewal where let's see yeah what is it the name is escaping me right now Um, go back. It's, it's, um, I think it's that one outcast. I, that might have been the one where it kind of had a little bit more of like a ministry or, I bet you now we would go listen to it and it's bangers. But violent revolution and shout out to,

to everybody who worked on Hadbanger's Ball, when they started playing that video, I would see on my MySpace and, um, I went and got the record. and I was like, oh my God, creator is back. And then from this until now, hit after hit. I mean, even off the last record, strongest of the strong is a smash. We played, dude, we went and played like little arenas with them in Dumu.

Like, not that long ago. Like, maybe 2018. So you're looking at, let's look at these bangers in a row. You got, you got enemy of God, right? Go down, go down. You got violent revolution, enemy of God. These are out of order. But if you go down further, keep going down.

Yeah, those are the early records. But Phantom Antichrist, dude, Satan is real. You haven't lived until... Satan is real. Yeah, you haven't lived until you've seen 40,000 Germans singing Satan is real. So they just brought it with the playing with the intensity, with the riff choices and the note choices. It was...

They're one of, you know, many who have gone on to inspire me just... Just because you're never out. You may be down, but you're never out. Never out. Look at machine head. Talk about inspiring. Yeah. I mean, say what you want to say.

I get it. I know there's people. They don't like Rob or whatever. But you're talking about... What, they were turned down by 35 labels? You... Yeah. It's crazy.

Yeah. You said it, I think, on the show with him was you were one of those kids that you liked that record. You liked Bulldozer and, I mean, Bulldozer are the banger, but on the one after it, right, the Burning Red, or was Bulldozer on Burning Red? I could be. That's on a record after. Right. So Supercharger, I believe. So this was, and this is just because I'm, I kind of live in between the two worlds, right?

Like I was, I was a host of a metal show, but I was in a hardcore band. but I also liked death metal and I was always, we always played with death metal bands. Like we always played with napalm death, six feet under, internal bleeding, suffocation. We were super influenced by suffocation.

So I get that people don't know the history that they might think that I'm just some guy from a hardcore band talking about metal. But that was, people were like, what are they doing with the hair and the shiny, what was it, shiny like suits or pants that

Rob wore. Oh yeah yeah like the track suits but you were just getting into it you were like new so it's awesome and you were like this is my jam yeah this is great and you were he thought you were fucking with him or something right yeah yeah right but I love that record so flash forward to when

um right before they canceled the headbringer's ball they had that fucking comeback the blackening right Yeah. And it's back to the noodling. It was like less caveman, more kind of thrashy, fast, ripping leads and riffs, right? So you're never out.

And then it's back. You're back headlining festivals. You're back touring. I'm always curious how bands do that, you know? You know, how do it? Because you're never out unless you, like, accept it. Yeah. How did bands go have that one or two shitty records and then they come back?

They will it. They will. It's will. It's will. It's will. You think your little comments are going to, you know, hurt Rob Flynn or the band is, the band is going to be shot because you don't like this record. But the year, he's going to come back with some shit. And he's, I mean, this dude's headlining, I bet you this year alone, they're headlining probably the biggest festivals in the world.

Yeah. And they've just. came off a whole stint of like we're not going to play festivals so it worked yeah it worked so it's just will you think it's will maybe more focus or what's and and and and and playing a good song a good song changes everything a good i mean we we luck we lucked out because i mean we were dead in the water according to the internet and then we got looking down the barrel of today and it's yeah i was i was curious my dude how do you do that what like your what that was your seventh seventh record in yeah what did you think what

did you hear the music first or did you know you know do you have like idea or you know jens pulver yens pulver i was watching some some like bellator documentary something like in the middle of night and it was he he had just said yeah and he he he was he had grown up in an abusive uh household his dad was drinking one night and was going to kill him. Really? And, like, held a gun to his head and then didn't do it and said, you're not even worth the bullets. And I was like, and it hit me.

But I know a shotgun doesn't hold bullets. A shotgun holds shells. Yeah. But when I started, like, I call it a blah, blah, blah, like I start with the blah, blah, blah. Are we going to give away trade secrets right now? Sure. I'll go about a few secrets if you got a few secrets.

Do you ever go with Eddie and you say, like, you scat it out or you blah blah blah like I've been trying to convince the guys to do it hey let's not write lyrics yet let's just do a fucking primal pattern and then let's put words over that so is that one of the songs that you did that with wow yes and you know where I heard about that

James Heffield no I heard about it because deaf tones shout out to Chino deaf tones that's your white whale you gotta get dude Steph is the best you got I would love stuff oh my god if you have to get him on here He's the greatest. He's, that's my dude.

He's the best. Him wearing a hate breech shirt on fucking alternative press was like, oh, that's sick. Look that up. That was a game changer. People were stopping me. Did you see alternative press? Oh, really?

Steph's wearing a hate breach shirt. You're not going to fucking believe it. People are telling you? Yes. And this is pre-internet, dude, so it was a big deal. Do you don't know how many people came up to me and said, I only listened to your band because Steph was weird? Look at it.

There it is. Oh, just front. in center too. Dude, I got that framed at my house. Yeah, dude, it's front and center. Dude, look at that. What a legend. They're all wearing, dude, they're all wearing black shirts.

Can the fans see that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, dude, no, that stuff, I owe you, bro. Wow, dude. I owe you, bro. That, he's the man.

It sticks up also because the rest of bands wearing black, which is what they told you, it's what we're black. Yeah. He was party's really high. And you know, they told them no logos. You know, because they were a major label band. They were signed by Madonna or whatever. So you, because I dealt with,

with that. I wanted to wear the Converge shirt and the art director was like, you can't wear that. You can't wear this, you can't wear that. And so he stuck to his guns and fucking repped for the breed, man. I will always be grateful for that. And look, that's another guy. You go on the internet. People are saying all this stuff. Oh yeah? Go to the death tone shot. Dude, I don't know what, I don't know what fucking happened this.

Obviously, they're a big band. Obviously, I don't know what the fuck happened the past two weeks. All I see is TikTok's, I'm done playing the forum yeah um for some reason everybody went and then just post this all people do right now the past two weeks is post tic-tok's of this fucking one show dude it's beautiful and it's packed yeah god bless oh it's great it's so great and they're and all these kids they're gonna go these new kids that see this stuff on ticot they go down the rabbit hole you'd be surprised man they find suicide silence they find hate breed they find they find it man and it's game changer If they're looking, I think they'll find it.

But Steph, you have to get him on, dude. I would love, I need to find some kind of contact. Yeah, I'll look you up. He's the man. But so. Thank you, Jamie. So the, sorry I got off track, but so, so I knew the, I know that shotguns hold shells. Yes.

But the blah, blah, blah, blah, like you're saying, the primal, I was going, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat. and I was like trying to fit it and then I had the riff idea and Zeus is like it's almost there and we're going through it we're going through it and then we scrapped it for a while and then Wayne came to the studio and he's like go back to that

what's that one what's that one? I'm like I'm still working on that one I don't know I don't know then he came back a couple weeks later I was like what's that one what's that one you know you hear these things about oh the shit came together in like four minutes that that one was not like that And so I was like, all right, all right. I have a riff.

And two weeks later, hey, what's that one riff? But it's got to complement the vocal. So I needed to change it. So it bobbed and weaved throughout the vocal. And I was like, did you have like the blah blah pattern first? Yes. You try to put a riff on top of that.

Yes. What? Some of our biggest songs are like that. Oh, is what? Is it, are you just walking around the house? Are you riding? You just think of our pattern is coming to you in your heart? or your mind is like these patterns first and then you...

Honestly, I think everybody has access to it. I know a lot of us are influenced by other bands, but when we connect to the ether or the after or the before, I don't know what it is. Sure. You've got to get yourself into the state, whether it's, I don't know if it's exercise or if it's something like meditation

or something some people can do more than others. Like some people I feel like are just more tapped into it. I know that I know that famous stories of like huge huge monumental earth shattering records like Nirvana and sublime I know that people kind of

I know people maybe have I don't want to say attributed it to the drugs or attributed it to heroin but you've heard that right? Yeah yeah it's like but there's a natural way to do it and maybe you don't get the diamond selling record but you feel it and you know it

and that's like what you're chasing that's what I'm always chasing every time I pick up the guitar every time I pick up the mic I'm just chasing that puzzle piece fitting moment and even when you think it's not there

like when it's 90% or 75% it might be somebody's 120%. Wow Yeah because I don't especially people who are no longer here to like add to the story or like maybe maybe i'll come back on and i'll bring wayne on but um there's been past members of the band that you know just didn't like the songs and i was like trust me this is the one thing in my life i'm certain about trust me on this song oh this sounds

like this i don't like this this is corny this is cheesy and then i think about them when it's 50 000 people singing it back and that part and they're beating the shit out of each other and they're coming there's tattooed on them and that's why you know what I mean it's it's like thank God in that moment now there's been plenty of other moments where I listen to I'm not saying you know always trust your gut and you're always right but you you have to yeah how do you balance that because sometimes you got to listen to other people but sometimes you got to follow your gut sometimes you know but you got to be open-minded at the same time that balance still I'm trying to figure it out because when you have like this vision so you're trying to explain it hey trust me on this but also you don't want to

seem close-minded, we don't listen to other people. How do you... Right, especially the producer. Oh, yeah. It's been so many times, I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And I... How do you... And then you think that. And they all hear. They all listen to the podcast. They all hear. And then they'll text you or they'll say, well, that's not exactly how it went down. And I'm thinking, that's how you remember it. I remember. So, and you want it, you want it to be, um, you want it to be collaborative. But sometimes you just have to,

say this is it and it's got to stay like this and you got to wait what do you know and this is it man yeah i don't know because because on divinity of purpose i was yeah man i mean it was on a small label and even before it came out people were like oh they're on the kids bob label and but they but they were signed they signed us they signed p o d they signed shadows fall i mean they were trying to do so I knew we were already coming from a place of of I guess I would call it an uphill

battle a little bit of uphill battle but you know once you do a record and you take and you go a little bit into the valley and you take a little dip the only way to go is up

that's it that's all it's left and I feel bad for Wilbur because he's a great dude and you know had that record done better and we still play song from that record. We play honor never dies. We play

but I mean even honor never dies. Wayne you know he was like I don't like this riff or whatever and we joke around about it now because he said it was like a new metal type of riff but then when we just played it in Australia the whole crowd was singing it and going crazy.

So you're talking about this record correct? Yeah. Was something off or what a... Yeah just yeah I honestly I don't want to put it on the label I don't want to put it on I just want to I take full responsibility I take full accountability. Like, I just, you just got to go,

all right, I got to do a better record next time, period. But now, but I've been saying this a lot of my Patreon, and the Patreon people get pissed because they're like, dude, no sacrily, like, don't, don't ever say that about this album. Oh, yeah. Because when they got into it and they, That was their time. That was their jams on that album.

But, it's like you with Supercharger or whatever. Yeah, it's just, that's their. Or the Burning Red, which one? Both. Burning Red, yeah. But that's, of course, sometimes we do, like, a bad record, it leaks to, like, a future record or two. Yes. Yeah.

That happens. So it sounds like it happened to you once. Yeah. And, like, look, you've worked with these big producers. You worked with Ross Robinson and others. It's your, at the time, you've got to go, yeah, let's try it. Let's try it. Look, no risk, no reward.

Even now, if you look at the bands that took big risks, swings and misses, you've got to respect. it. If it didn't work out and they took a hit in the touring or they took a hit. Yeah. Or it broke them up or whatever. Big hit, yeah. Who are we to say? Yeah.

If they didn't do that, would they be regretting it till this day? It's true. That's true, man. I definitely believe in big risks. I have a question for you. This is a question I've been asking quite a few people.

Do you know any bands off the top of your head that lost your career twice. And then got it back a third time. Yeah, for sure. Look at Cromax. I mean, this dude is just out there. Shout out to my boy, Opus.

He was playing drums for Cromes. He's just out there with dancing and down, playing arenas. I mean, they're opening, but still, that's probably the most turbulent band in the history of bands, right? Where you have... I've got to do more... Just bad blood. It's just a history rife with beef and bad blood and drama.

And yeah, it's too bad because, I mean, I was there. Dude, I was there. We played a show. I'm pretty sure. And again, maybe I wish Wayne was here to correct me with the, I think it was Paris, John, Harley, and maybe even Mackey? I think it was one of the classic lineups all together. And it was like a festival with,

it might have been Hellfest in Jersey or Hellfest. And Harley, and there's straight-edge bands on the bill, and Harley just comes right out, starts dissing the straight-edge kids. I'm like, what are you doing? He started, sorry if I'm not,

if I'm embellishing this at all, but this is what I remember. And I just remember like, oh my God, is this two going to have to fight the whole crowd? Wow. Somebody can comment and let me know how accurate or inaccurate that is. But I just, I remember that vividly and going, okay, so much for that reunion.

I was like, is this going to go beyond this show once he did this? Like, are you really going to want to, are these other dudes going to really want to have to fight with straight-edge dudes at every stop of the tour? because even then, even though it was around the time of the early message boards, it still word would get around. Like we would, I would say something in a fanzine and there would be a problem

down the road and you got people boycotting your shows and shit like that. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Even just being on victory, there was people that would boycott the show just because we were on victory. And I was like, yo, I was literally sleeping in bunk beds living with my uncles. You're going to try to fuck my shot up now?

It's so bizarre. Yeah, they what they they they called the victory of what like the McDonald's of a heart heart car labels, right? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And it was. It seems like every move like like you made, uh, Jamie with the hay free. It seems like everyone always has something to say, oh, they're on, they're on victory.

Welcome, sellouts. Oh, now they're on universal. Sellouts. Yeah. Jamie is on Hepburn's ball. Sell out, dude. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm thinking.

You just ignored it. It's, yeah, what are you like, what are you doing? What are, what are you getting involved in? What are you helping with? What are you, are you championing these bands? Are you taking them on tour? Yeah. Are you trying to get their video played?

Are you, yeah. So, but that's life, man. What's the credit? What's the arena? I'm just so lucky to even have had the opportunity to be even close to the arena. So when I gave that CD to Monkey, right? We never got the chance to play New Haven Coliseum. I visualized it in my mind

and I actually kind of like shed a tear when they raised it to their ground and they literally like and I thought so much for that but then there was others there was the there's you know the meadows and there's the Oakdale and there's giant stadium

even though it was the parking lot you're there there man Metallica's headlining they know who you are they chose your video look at that yeah like that when that happened and dude

And actually shout out to Opus because he's playing drums for Cromags now. His band, his old band, got to play. They got to open for rage against the machine. Beautiful, man. So others got to do it. You know, you have to celebrate others wins. You can't be in that squandering mentality, that scarcity mentality. Now, you've always been a, like,

like abundant mindset guy. And it explains it because coming up when you were coming up, like late 90s, like you got again, like the preconceived ceilings, like you kind of had to view it as like, like, I can't believe anybody. I'm just going to help out as much band as I can. I'm going to help out my own band to break through these multiple ceilings. Yeah. How was that when you just started this busing through these ceilings?

That was like impossible. A lot of it goes back to middle school. and high school. I was thinking about this this morning when I was talking with Toby. And again, shout out to Toby. The best dude. You guys have to do a podcast trade. That'd be great. You have to go and hang with him and have him come here. I don't think he likes me, though. No. There's no way he doesn't like you. No. Fuck yeah, Toby. And D Block, too. Shout out to Derek. Have you had Derek on? Oh, yeah. He's like number

fucking 12 or great he was like one of the first ones it was during COVID too he's the best there are another one late in the game like go listen to isolation that inspired me for this new hatred record like go listen to isolation yeah that's a banger

they lock you do lock you down for life I was like yes I mean it gets me so pumped when I hear it so so when I was talking to Toby I was saying I knew in middle school and in high school just I could spot the lie I could spot

like I just I don't know if it was a spitey sense or it might have been what because we were experimenting with acid or we were experimented with it I see it now and don't get me long don't get me wrong I'll embellish the shit I love that like on my Patreon I there's some days on my Patreon I'm like listen, I can't verify any of this.

And no snitching. Don't be signing up to the Patreon to snitch. But it's because the juicy shit is always for the executive producer tier because we have the best community on Patreon. Nice. And they love you. And like that, that community will say, okay, yeah, I look this up. This was a different date or whatever. Like maybe the, I always say like some names or dates are changed or whatever.

But back then, the. especially in the early 90s, there was this, I guess it's similar to the one-upping now, but it's different type of one-upping. One-uping now is online where, where, you know, you'll see somebody online and they'll show a part of their life,

but that's not really their life. That's what they're showing. True. And then people get all depressed, like, oh, this person's on vacation all the time. And this girl is like, she's so beautiful and this beauty's unattainable. and these riches or this power

all this stuff's unattainable but back then okay one of the first eye-opening things I ever saw was there was this metalhead dude he was relentlessly bullied I'm talking like to the point where I saw him snap and then he didn't come to school for a while and but he was a metalhead

that like Queenswright but he also liked some hair stuff like white snake and this was we had a mall where you could go in And there was like white snake, winger, the shit that like the thrash guys and the death metal guys and the, the, especially the hip hop guys, they thought it was the gayest shit. Like they were like, this is terrible. Like they just would, and they would say that to him. That was, like, that was back when everybody was getting called that and everybody and every, and it was just normal.

Now, if they heard what we were saying to each other back then, people would have to go admit themselves to a mental hospital. And this is all races because, you know, Mexicans love metal. So the Mexicans, they're just torturing this guy because he likes hair metal. Wow. But then I went to a show. They didn't even give, they didn't even like give this guy a chance to talk about the other music. He doesn't just like hair metal, but just for this one time he's wearing like a wing or a white snake. They're just torturing this kid.

Wow. Then I go to the show. and I forget what show I want to say it was this band Bullet Boys They had a hit And it wasn't and it was not a heavy show This is like a glam this is like a glam band But I was going to the show

Because I wanted to flyer it Because there was gonna be girls at this show And you don't want to have it always be a pickle party Yeah So yeah so this So I go Pock parties that's the first time I heard that term Jamie And it and and and and and and and I knew

Pickle party And I saw one of the girls That my sister was friends with downtown She was wearing a Bullet Boy shirt and I thought okay and she was pretty cute so I thought okay I know this band I'm gonna if if people see me at this show they're gonna be like oh You're you're a poser you're dead or whatever yeah, but so I go to this show and this dude is walking in with a dime After being mercilessly like bullied and taunted at school like having and he's walking in with a dime piece like a hotter girl than any one of these bullies will ever have the opportunity to touch in their life.

Yes. And I go, oh, yeah. You won it life. It's, this is not real. People's hateerisms is not real. Not real, man. And then, and then there was another time, we were supposed to go on this field trip,

and it was to a dump. Yeah. It was literally to a garbage dump. Really? Yes. Why? Because the teacher, I don't want to, the teacher's going to see this.

Okay. Well, no, you know what, here. Shout out. Shout out to your teacher. No, I, look, even back then, they were saying to us, like, they were saying to us, we have Long Island Sound. They were like, by 1999, the water is going to be rising. Like, they were on that shit then, bro. Wow. And they were all about the environmental shit.

New York, Manhattan. Oh, that just never stopped. Manhattan was going to be underwater. Yeah. It was all a scam. Sorry for the current environmentalist. I'm not talking about now. I don't know if now is a scam.

It seems like there's a lot of scammy stuff out there. But this was, we were going to be underwater. It was like fear mongering. And there's going to be, it was, you know, we're going to have to live in like underground because the sun, the ozone layer. Dude, we heard about this fucking ozone layer. Look up the ozone layer thing.

They pushed this shit so hard. this has been going on since yeah i was a child as well you always always like heard like rumblings or something it's going to fucking oh wow yes so and and and there and it was funny because it kind of related to the hair metal thing because they're like it's the aerosol it's the hairspray and it's ruining the ozone and i don't know it seemed scammy back then like it's it seemed hair metals ruined in the planet so this teacher takes us to this dump and it was supposed to like teach us something like this is where like your stuff goes and she kind of had a point because i'm sure i'm sure that there was like fucking

cdies or i don't know old cassettes and vinyl like there was actual vinyl records that were broken up in the dump oh and i was like i'm out of here and and i said i'm not i'm not doing it i i had just gotten new shoes and i was like i was like and this was back when you would get merciless mercilessly taunted if you didn't have the right shoes like these dudes have the rebuck pump these These dudes have cons. That's why I went to punk and hardcore. I'm like, thank God, these people don't give a fuck about this shit. Yeah.

Because you could wear jeepers. You could wear it. Because I had to go to school with the fake cons one time. Oh, my God. Fake convers? Yes. And everybody's, you got jeepers on. No, they knew.

Oh, they fucking knew, huh? It was drama. It was, but so, and my father backed me. He's like, yeah, don't go. And so I had to call him from a pay phone. And I got sent home. and I literally he was like yeah that's that's ridiculous

like what are you gonna learn there like why are you it's not even safe for you to go there but it was like a way to like scare us about and I don't and I hate literally I hate littering yeah like that's why I can't be a politician I can't be in law enforcement because I would put you to death for littering like that would yeah they'd be like dude you can't do that I hate littering but at that time it was it was just, I knew

it was something was off and there's many situations like that. From just growing up in that time where one person's experience is just totally different. I went to a school. I was trying to get into a school

and you needed to do some writing and you would get some sort of scholarship and it was like a big deal. I know there's some tinfoil hat stuff out there about this now, but it was called tag. It was called talented and gifted. They would bus us and we would do these weird tests. Reach out to me.

Anybody who was ever in it, reach out to me. Supposedly it was like. Talented and gifted program. Supposedly it was like some feeder system or some, there was some nefarious shit going on. So I got bused to a couple different places and I was skeptical side eye the whole time. Like this is weird. Like, why are they asking us all these weird questions? But then they would tell your parents, they would say, oh, yeah, like, we're trying to do this or that.

And it seemed like a great opportunity. But no one knew exactly what the outcome was going to be or what, where you were going to go, what you were going to do. I just knew. I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here as soon as fucking possible. and they would say shit like you can't get this without that or you can't do this without that and then I would go do it

and be like they're wrong yeah I went and got a GED I got a job I went and got like everything that they told me you couldn't do you're never gonna do they were just wrong

about it all yeah yeah why how can you get a show out of state like how you need a booking agent you need to do this you need to do that I would just literally drive to the show I would go to the door guy

I would give him the tape and I'd be like whatever we got to do we'll play for free or whatever and then I got the show and I'm like, see, they're just lying about everything. Wow. And the same thing when I became like a booking agent. Shout out to Finberg.

I know people tried to cancel Finberger. And whatever beef they had with Finberg, I don't know what he did. I don't know if he's guilty, not guilty. And I don't care. I had my own beefs with Finberg, but he was another one. He showed me a lot of things in the industry where you just go, oh, this person is fucking lying. Yeah.

They're never going to book. a band like you. They're never going to do this. They're never going to do that until you can bring 300 people to the club. As you say, money talks. That too, yeah. So, I mean, and you can be both, right? Like if John is guilty of whatever he did,

he also helped a lot of bands. It's like the Vince McMahon thing. I see everybody debating the Vince McMahon thing. Like, I guess Vince, Vince McMahon did some really bad. Are you shitting on broads and stuff? like let's go dude did you hear about this yes you did yeah yeah but then you talk to certain people and you just look at him he just looks yeah he gave a lot of people careers yeah great and people

love a villain i i would not be surprised if 10 15 big time dudes jump ship and they start some new shit with vince would that shit pop off right yeah that'd be awesome would that shit pop off like just a straight NWO That'd be great Times 20 Yeah I was listening to a podcast with a triple H He was on a flagrant I was curious about a story man

It's just everything he seemed Almost everything he said Involved the name of Vince He's like damn he probably he probably did so much for you man And like your career and like shit What do you do with that? Me personally I'm a very separate the art from the artist Yeah and I'm actually thinking about how

About some experiments that I could do on here Because I think most people are, but they don't even know it. Yeah. Like I was thinking of, I'm giving out some of my secrets, but I want to start quoting people. But the people I will be quoting will be serial killers that have said nice things or some paintings. I was thinking of either like pulling up paintings or maybe even having one in here, this might be too far. But having one in here, that's like a, oh, this is a beautiful painting. Do you like this painting?

It's John Wayne Casey Yeah This is a painting from a Hitler Right You'll get real Just see what people say But okay you say that you don't You don't support this

But this is a prime example Right You like this you like this song You like this company Or you like this painting or quote Like this came from this person You know Triple H

Is one of the He's one of the The white whales for me to get on the show Like if I get it Crazy Yeah That would be insane, dude. I need to know if we blew the opportunity.

Because we were always told no. And I could never figure out why. And there was multiple pitches made. I even made it. I even got to, I got in the door at WWE. I did the song. I wish I had it to play it for you. I did the song with Jim Johnston.

You did the song with Jim? Yes. Are you serious? Yes. And I went, I went the. I went the butt rock route with it thinking there's and then they wanted it like hate breed style. So I called it wrong. Oh.

So I went like I was thinking it needed to be like saliva. I'm no disrespect to saliva. I don't want to call bands butt rock. But you know what I mean. I was thinking radio rock. Sure. And so then and it didn't make the cut. But prior to that.

I had heard that during the drinking days, we pissed off Triple H at a Motorhead show. I know we had... Oh my goodness. Because we were on tour with Motorhead. Yeah. And so I had wondered, and I'm hoping that we say this, because this has happened many times before,

where, like, there was a famous radio show that COC was on, Black Label was on, Pantera was on, all these artists were on. we could never get booked. And I had heard that I was drunk somewhere, and I pissed off the co-host back in the drinking days. He was at C-Bs or he's somewhere, and I said something or bumped into it or whatever,

and I was heard that was why we could never get booked. Then I finally got booked. He had no record. Now, he could have been lying, but he had no recollection of it. Okay. And I said, hey, you know, as part of stopping drinking and trying to be sober,

like, I want to apologize if I, if I had met you in passing and I said something, I did something. Not because I want to be on the show, but just because I want to do right. And I don't want to be that guy. And so I wondered that about Triple H because then I had heard he was also at a show with us in Slayer

where we were whiling out at Roseland. Like we got told to leave the backstage. Our guests got kicked out. So, but I always wondered that. But then when I got the meeting with Jim Johnston, I thought, oh, I guess all is well, like all's good. But then I blew that with going the softer route with the song and not going like hate breed style with it.

So they hit you up to get a hatebreed style song they could put on W.O.E. Yeah, I think it was for Seamus. I forget who it was from. I forget who it was for, but it was, yeah, that was one I think. Yeah, I think I blew it. He's blue. I'd love to get Jim. Is Jim, what's Jim up to?

He's just retired, right? I just heard that he just, this happened. This is recent, like past six months, right? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Now, Jim wrote a dude, he wrote all those legendary songs, dude. What's the best one? How was he?

I mean, a bias, Stone Cold, I think, is his best one, the fucking class breaking. Yeah, man, see. Standard E. This sounds heavy as shit. I always, I don't know what it was, but with the wrestling themes, And maybe this is just because it's probably because I did that Motorhead tour and then did the Danzig tour and then did those Slayer tours. I always felt like on TV and in the arena, they just never slapped like they should. They always felt tinny.

And I know that the content is there. But production wise, would you say they're like... The wrestling songs? Yeah. Would you say they're like really good produced like bangers? And I'm not trying to be a dick. I guess it's a, but it's a different form of a banger. I mean, a banger is like would I, would I, would I buy this if a band put out this song?

No. But the fact that it is for wrestling and it's, I guess it's a part of the production. I think the song itself as a band would, I guess, in a weird way, sucks, which I never really thought about that till right now. But it, but live, it just hits. Yeah. I guess if you're a fan of like Stone Cold, you hear the glass breaking, you hear that, you know, standardy riff

with the subs and the lights. I guess it's a whole thing, but I guess it's a banger, per se, I guess it's, I guess it's not a banger. Yeah, because I just, I always felt like, man, let me get in there and put a fucking,

and give them an ass-beater. Like, give them a rip. Because you know who I saw on there? And I was like, oh, thank God. It was motionless and white. Oh, yeah, that was. dope. Yeah.

That was incredible. And I thought, now they're getting there. No disrespect. Yeah. I thought, now you're on the right path. And there was a minute there, too. I don't know if you ever heard the Seth Rollins one where they totally owe Dino a sandwich. There was a minute there where they had somebody else doing it.

And it was like some straight up, what's the drum program? What's the? Oh, yeah. Like, Drumbeat, Real Hell or like Superior Drummer. Superior Drummer Tune. Tune. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then with like a Dino riff for Seth Rollins, I think it was.

And I was like, yeah, now this is what I'm talking about. But yeah, it's also like, look, if it's happening at an iconic moment and you're there and you're part of the energy in the crowd, it doesn't matter. Yeah, here's one. I was like, is this, right? I was like, is this tune track? Like, is this get good drums? What's the dude from peripheries one? Is it get good drums?

Sounds like if Dino was. really hammered or Damoo or something i forget maybe it wasn't that one it might have been a different one but everybody else dino a sandwich regardless oh 100% sometimes i'll like do some i'm like that's like that's sick and then i'll listen to like de-manufacturing i'm like well he did it like you know 20 years ago so yeah i'm not no i thought i was being original i guess not i thought i thought i had it god damn it dude dude we were talking i i asked you how how you uh you got through the ceilings of being a hardcore band and now and now we're talking about wrestling. Oh, dude, on my, on my patron, they call it, they call me Timmy Tangent because you just,

that's a Timmy tangent full on. It kind of ended mid tangent, but you talked about one-upping. Yes, the one-up being like, okay, this dude does this, then I got to do this. This dude does that and I got to do that. That's what the beauty of, originally the beauty of the hardcore and a punk scene was like, it didn't seem like that. That was a thing that was more in metal and rock where it was like, these bands, you can't,

you don't get a dressing room. You don't get full use of the PA. You don't get full use of the lights. And you would hear about that. Like, I remember reading that. Oh, sure. I remember reading, like literally reading Circus Magazine or whatever it was, Metal Edge with Dee Snyder saying,

oh, yeah, D.O. wouldn't give us a dressing room or wouldn't let us have the PA. And I was like, damn, that's messed up. He would do that to twist the sister. Yeah. But that was like, That was a thing. That was...

People still do it, yeah, yeah. People still do it, man. I'm like, well, what the fuck, dude? I don't know. But when you, when I noticed that when we got to the headlining status and there was, there's times, obviously, now we've been doing it 30 fucking years. I get when bands are like, hey, we need a dressing room. Like, it's... And sometimes their bands have only been on a couple tours and you're like, bro, I did decades of this shit without getting a dressing room.

But I get it. It's like at this point, we have to evolve and we got to make it work for everybody so it's not such a grind. Yeah. But you also got to work together. Share the crew. Share the merch person. Share the space. Share the, you know.

It's going to be different every night. It's going to be venue dependent. It's going to be lineup dependent. And it's going to be who's having a good day or who's not having a good day. Because let me tell you, when I interviewed Dio, for head bangers he was second on the bill motorhead was the opener

oh wow maiden was headlining that's a lineup right and so even i think then i i think deo didn't have full use of the entire maiden rig because that's their rig they're paying for it true right i guess i guess if you pay for it maybe there's a little

understanding there but he was so cool there it is so check this out so fuck yeah jamie Fuck yeah, brother Looking good, man Wow And he was I think of this

He saw His name is Mino Palouse If you look very closely In this video You'll see a very little girl Who was about 5 or 6 years old at the time And that was Meno's sister

And her name is Mounsela Who became Puckie Brewster So if you look at that The next time you see it There you go All right

Well thanks for hanging out with her Thank you Yeah Fuck yeah Jamie with her A Reworm shirt on And Bruce was such a jerk to me that day. Really?

He was a jerk to everybody. Nico was so, so cool. But Dio, wait, let's tell you. Oh, God. Oh, God. Bruce is pissed. He didn't want to be there. Is he pissed?

He is. Yeah, well, we're actually 31 nights into it because we did a whole bunch of stuff in Europe. Oh, he was looking for some. This is great. Nice evening. You know? Lots of fans out there. Sounds good.

Cool. You're ready to rock. Now, I saw you guys at Grasspot my band. He played on the side stage. Throwed in there? I don't, I've never even seen this. That's also going to be the video. Yeah.

Cool. And did you do that? Yeah. One word answer. We're not in it. What the concept? The concept is we're not in it. All right.

Exactly. Oh, he's just looking, dude. Well, right now we're going to get into a. But there was stuff in between, like, you know, how you got to stop and set up. And he's just annoyed. It actually, he actually, I don't think he comes off that bad there now that I've seen it. I haven't seen this. What were you feeling there?

Oh, it was like, because you did a feeling sometimes, oh, wait, am I a bombing right now? Is this bombing? Yes. How do I handle this? Yes. And they gave me a warning like, hey, Bruce isn't a bad moment. Oh, no. Yeah, and that was the worst thing to do for me.

Oh, that's terrible. Plus, I had already had this just amazing back and forth. with Dio. And can I just tell you a funny story about wearing this shirt? He asked me about the shirt before we started taping. Okay.

And I said, oh, this is my friend Frank's band. Frank was not in hatred yet. Oh. And I said, this is my friend Frank's band, Ringworm. I go, he,

you don't, he's the one that, like, we listen to, Dio live at the spectrum. We listen to Dio record so loud, his neighbor's no deal lyrics and not

on purpose. Like that, we, we drink to the, The son comes up and he's like, man, that's so great to hear. And he's like, he loves you. He'd be freaking out knowing I was here, you know, interviewing or whatever. So flash forward to 2009.

We're playing in Japan. We're opening for Dio. And I, we said, oh, can we get a picture together with the band? And that picture might be online somewhere with hate breed and Dio. But so we go in there and I, dude, I shit you not. I go, yeah, this is Frank. And he goes, Frank? You mean, like your friend Frank?

He remembered, Oh, wow. Dude, this is what a gem. Like, what an amazing deal. Like, I get chills. Like, my hair stands up just thinking about it. Because he's like, wait, Frank, like, your friend from the van?

Like, you're from Ringworm, Ringworm. He knew. Yes. Dude, it's he had like a, like the elephant memory or whatever. I mean, just, if you do Hey, Bree Dio, it might come up. It was in Japan. I think it was at Loud Rock. It was just.

He remembered, dude. Yeah, and we took the picture together. Beautiful. And he was joking around in between takes and stuff, because he's like, I said, dude, I'm so sorry we don't have like a real couch or chairs. We're sitting on the back of those, like, bleacher or whatever you want to call those, like, those amphitheater seats. And he's like, oh, the size of my ass, he's like, this is like a couch. He was so cool and just, yeah, just what a, man, that guy. What a legend.

Rest in peace, man. What a voice. And just the nicest. And so I. ended up yeah there it is oh shit we got it and he's like he's like he's like this is the frank he knew like he I was like this is just wow that's a moment yeah that's a moment yeah I mean what a what a everybody should try to be more like deal like if you could strive to be like one of these legends no and he's getting ready to go on there's no I think he was

sipping a little wine and then he goes out and he's belting those classics And it's like effortless. And you go, oh. So I did. So for Lost Chapters, if anybody wants to check out, sorry for this shameless plug. But because Frank and I had listened to Dehumanizer and those Dio Sabbath records a lot, too, not just Dio solo. I did buried alive on Jostal Lost Chapters. And it didn't, it didn't make it onto the physical.

Dio tribute, but it made it onto the digital. Like I think if you go to the digital version of the Dio tribute, it's like on the iTunes version. But so I ended up getting to put it on lost chapters. Part of the reason why I should credit, I should change that and make sure it's credited as a, as a Dio era Sabbath song. But so, you remember those shirts that said Dio Sabbath? No. You never saw those? I never seen those.

So, so. That's, let's pull it up, dude. So do we need to make... Okay. Or just... It was a shirt that actually just said Dio Sabbath. It was a thing that we would see. We would see him like on Oz Fest and we'd like, oh, man, this guy's trying to start trouble.

Let's go. But so maybe now I need to make a Deano Maiden shirt just for the fucking... That's terrible. Dude, you were talking of... You were going to write a book about... your first 100 guests, right? Mm-hmm. Whatever happened with that?

So, I just felt like some of the stories I didn't want out there, um, especially because of like I was saying earlier, like people remember shit much differently. And it wasn't, because it was,

I thought, I still might put it out. I thought about it because I found it recently on a hard drive. It's not, look, it ain't war and peace. It's a- Oh, is it done? It's not done, but it's it's a short book.

It's like, it would be like a toilet read or a, or a summer read in a couple days. And I guess, I guess because people are very, you know how it is. Even if you, even if we say like, oh, we don't like this record or that record, some people really take it to heart. Sure. Yeah. So, and then some of the people, like, there was a chapter in there about Dave Grohl and about my experience with Grohl and with him hosting for the ProBot episode. And I don't know if you can pull up ProBot on head bangers. But I thought, like, I didn't think the chapter was, um,

mean at all like to me it was just factual like it was like the probate it didn't I don't know do you remember the probate record yes did you love it no okay so that was part of my thing was like you got look at this murderers row of people here so you got whino you got um Eric, rest in peace, Eric Wagner from trouble. You got Snake from Voivod. Why am I drawing a blank? See, maybe I did need a coffee.

Anyways, you know the guys he did the songs with. Let's pull up the tracks, perfect. And I thought it I thought it was... Yes, I thought it was cool that he was giving metal

like a big mainstream look. But I also thought, why are you doing this now when, and who knows, maybe we should have been more accepting of Grohl into metal than as a whole, or I don't know.

I really don't know. I don't know where I'm going to this. I guess where I'm going with this is it didn't feel like a complimentary, some of the parts of it just didn't feel complimentary. It didn't feel like it added anything to the conversation. Okay. Like, why does this need to be out here? Like, I don't know this dude. And this is just my opinion and what went down like at that time, because we shot it in the TRL studios. Okay. Um, and I thought, man, this is

going to be very short-lived. There's, and maybe, I don't know, maybe, maybe Wino would agree, maybe Dave would degree, but now I kind of wish that this was the thing he kept alive and toured. And because it was like he had the opportunity to bring that

style to TRL, but it was on headbangers, but it would have had impact if it was on TRL. Do you get what I mean? It was like, you're just coming and you're preaching to the converted. You have, you're Dave Grohl. You can get this on, and I'm sure he got

it on Conan and everywhere else. But then I also felt like, is this taking away from, say, an Apom death or an Exodus or someone we could have had on that week? And we're only having it on because it's Dave Grohl? I don't know. It just...

But I have a lot of respect for Dave. I have a lot of respect for the producer, too. Who's playing... He's right there. Fuck is... You know. famous producer, his name is escaping me right now. Rascolence, Nick.

Oh, Nick? Shout out to Nick. He was super cool. It was a great hang. I was, I was in awe of everyone. And I felt it was a compliment. Overall, I felt it was a complimentary chapter, but then someone read it and was like,

hmm, it doesn't come off that complimenters. I was like, it doesn't need to be out there. So you just, you wrote it honestly? You think people might take it the wrong way? I just Again this was at a time Where like MySpace was a thing And people were ready

Like I felt like If I would wear a shirt Of a band And people would go What the fuck? Why are you wearing a shirt of this band And this and this And it was weird

You were in a lose Lose situation No one really gave you credit for that You were in lose Lose Lose because just you I was always curious How you Hosting Heberin's Ball

How you dealt with the behind It's politics of it because you have universal play goss smack you have this label play rob zombie you're trying to play pitt destroyer and agnostic front and you're trying to balance and plus there it's like the revolving uh the revolving door of employees that that you're constantly talking to i'm like man how do he balance like the politics luckily luckily they i feel like everybody there their heart was in the right place and even up to the sum of the suits um and some of the higher ups.

I felt like their heart was in the right place and they wanted to do the right thing and they were doing the right thing. But then at the same time, it's like in order to be all in on something, you can't also be in a touring band. And although I went, you know, shout out to Connecticut School of Broadcasting,

I went, they gave me a crash course. I'm reading prompter. I'm doing, you know, the exercises. I'm going, blah, la, I'm doing. And I, and it was, wasn't like I got it with one tryout. I had to go back. And then the people that didn't get it were like mad at me. And I was like, well, all I'm trying to do is get a college fund going for my daughter. And I thought people would be happy for me. But, but some were. Some really were.

And then the, both of the, throughout the, the time with the programmers, I really feel like they did a good job. And they, they, they, they, they, they also,

even if it was a big band, like say, Maiden, or I know there was times where a Lincoln Park video would get snuck in, like maybe one of the heavier ones or,

or Lincoln, or, limp biscuit or corn or whatever, and some people would be like, put that on TRL. And I would get why they had those complaints. But then there were some

that they launched on headbangers and did make it to TRL. And, And so that was cool. We went to the event show. It was a big thing. We all went like everybody from MTV2. And they were like, this is it.

This is the next thing. Whoa. Because people cared about every member. They're good at what they do. They're good looking. They had the whole package. They had the it factor. Yeah.

But there was others in the running. As I lay dying. It could have been Atreou. It could have been as early dying. It could have been bleeding through. But they chose avenged. And we saw what happened. They're the one that got the push and good for them.

I was psyched because Avenge's video had the kid wearing a Hey Breed shirt. I was like, that was dope that they did that. It was cool because one of the kids in the video was wearing a hay breed shirt. Yeah. Yeah, dude, you're just fighting like a uphill battle, man. I was always wondering. It was between you and Howard, right? There was a bunch of people, yeah, yeah.

How did you get hit up? Because I think I've heard you mentioned, like you really focused. focused on getting the gig. Yes, and I went, shout it to Vanilla Ice. I went and interviewed, I went and interviewed people. I was like, I need a tape that's going to cut through the noise. And Vanilla Ice was doing a metal record, actually with Ross. Oh, yeah, it's around that same time frame, huh?

And the Amen dudes, rest in peace, Casey Chaos. And so he was going to be promoting it, like at the Webster Theater in Hartford or at CCC. And I said, yo, can I come interview you? because we had played with vanilla ice Here's another thing People said don't play with vanilla ice It's gonna be a disaster whatever again It's like you hear it

And then we go play the show We never sold so much fucking merch There's girls screaming the whole time People losing their minds It was a the show was a banger Wow People wrong again And shout out to Scarhead

Because Scarhead did some dates with them And then so so So then Vanel Ice is like Oh yeah my boy Isaac You know And it was so funny Because then they were like Yo, those shows were, here it is.

Vanilla Ice, Hey, Breed, Eastside, Seventh Rail Crew at the Worcester Palladium. It's 99, wow. Yeah. So then I'm, because I'm already thinking, at this point. Oh, that's us. There's not a lot of, at this time, there's not a, like, there wasn't, like, happy endings in hardcore and punk music. Yeah, because you, at the time, you seen, you seen people turn their back on biohazard, etc. People either went to prison or died.

So you kind of had like you did kind of need like a backup plan, huh? Yes, but you didn't want to, you also didn't want to have that looming, right? Like you didn't want to be pulled away from the dream just because the dream is not quote unquote sustainable. Yeah. But it was sustainable by some at that point. And especially I always had a lot of respect and still do for sick of it all because they would go to Europe and they would keep. kill it and they would go make enough money over in Europe and then come back and they were given bands opportunities like they took vod they took snap case they took yeah and and and sure you know

there was the other there was the other new york hardcore bands that at that time that they looked at that as like well why aren't they taking us and i understood why because it was like okay yeah yeah but that's life you get passed over um and very true and then that made me think like yeah you know what try to be one of those bands where the headliner wants to take you not just because you're going to draw people and it's going to help. They want you there.

But they like to have you around. But he was cool. We did the interview and then I took the VHS tape and had to like mail it in or drop it off or whatever. And then I was shooting some bullshit movie on Long Island and that's and my A&R guy shouted to Sinji. He was there and we got to call

And my mother had told me like something with astrology, like huge opportunity is, is coming for you. It's going to change your life with money with Maddie, you know, because that was big. Dude, being able to, I never cashed one of those checks. I signed every single check over to my girl. Wow. For my daughter. And that was a, that was a big deal for my. It wasn't even a big check, but it was like it was big for us.

Unbelievable, man. Yeah. So when we got, so when it got. I got canceled and then I got paid for the remainder of my contract. I think, I don't know if I signed an NDA. I don't know if I can say that. I can't remember, but it was a shame because I was like getting paid for the show and it wasn't really on the air and I wanted to keep the show alive.

I said, I'll go do the interviews on my own. I'll hire the editor. Yeah. Let's do it, let's do it how it needs to be done. But also it needed to happen. It needed to go away. So that way we could see who was gonna play ball with YouTube, which are the majors, which of the TV stations, and which of the majors were going to play ball with

YouTube. We needed YouTube to happen. Obviously, we needed, you know, the MySpaces and the Twitters and all that stuff to happen. But then, had it stayed on, I don't know if we would have podcasting like this. So, um, and podcasting is a way better. Look at this. Look at the legends. KK's my boy. KK. That's my dude. Game you with a hundred demon shirt. Adap boy. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know how many people at that time would say, dude, I would just go and check out whatever shirt you were wearing, I would just go get it, and I meant the world to me, so thank you.

Someone would praise you for it, and the praise be like, fuck you for it. Yeah, and then they'd be like, that's the worst fucking band I ever. And then usually it was those people that thought I was choosing the videos every week, every video. Sure, sure. So, you know, if they would be mad, there was and some, one really

cool thing about this whole experience was this was when you really knew what was organic and what was really fake. This is before there was bot farms, before there was fake streams, I don't even think they had a way to do bots on MySpace. So you would get people like, dude, I got so punished. I'm talking thousands of messages about Deer and Gray. Do you know them? Yes. Are they a Japanese ban? Yes, they're sick. Their new song is a bang or two.

Great band. And they were up for like the band of the year or whatever it was. And they won. They beat out Converged Jane Doe. Like they beat out all these American artists because

the fans were so die hard. And they played the venue beneath MTV. And what venue is that? Is this a... It was a... It was.

It was like, I think it was called The World or it was called, I think now it's the best by theater. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. And so, so you can actually take the freight elevator and go up to where we shot headbangers every week. Oh, shit. That's open. Yeah. Now, now I know.

Well, it's open, but it's not like, there's nobody. It's like, there's like, there's like fucking tumbleweeds and everybody's all. It's like. Wow. But so then, so they played a show sold out. and it was all Japanese metalheads and I was leaving the studio and they had won

like the fan voted thing and people were like yeah and I was high-fiving people in the line even though I didn't want them to win I wanted to converge to win but I was just so I was just so impressed with the fan base

like mobilizing and and riding for their band I was like, that's dope. That's really cool that they have this diehard fan base. And so they were one of the real ones you were talking about. Like that was a real buzz, like a real upswell. It wasn't pushed by a label.

It really felt like because buzzworthy, and I don't know if there'd be allowed to talk about this now, but do you remember MTV2 buzzworthy? No. I think it was kind of like a pay-to-play thing. And I would be like, how is this fucking band? getting MTV buzzworthy. They're playing at 9 in the morning on Oz Fest.

Obviously not Limbiscuit. Sure. But there was other buzzworthies where the bands would be on there and we were told your video can't be played. Do you remember this? Buzzworthy. I remember the interesting.

And I was like, wait, so how does this work? Is it merit-based or does the label have to come up with a check? It was always something going on. There is always something. And some of the bands that got the push that would get the buzzworthy, you would go, but wait, they're playing so early and there's nobody there,

and they're not selling any... We're over here, we're selling, like, the most merchandise of any band of the day, and then we can't even get the video played, so I was like, I definitely got to take this job. Get in. You know, Madball says infiltrate the system. Yeah.

Get my foot in the door. Otherwise, I'm never getting my fucking video played. Damn, straight up. And thank God for Metallica, because they're the one that chose the video. They chose the Perseverance video, which we played, which we paid for ourselves. Really? Yes. Look at Heavy Devy with the fucking skull.

He's the best. And Devy's going to be closing out. Sorry. Milwaukee Metal Fest with Zach on Saturday, May 17th. Get your tickets to rave.com slash metalfest. Boom. Yeah, that's happening. and now when this comes out right

right before that. Great, yeah, and thank you so much for playing. It's going to be a great time. We're fucking rocking you. We just saw the set times. Pretty stoked. Okay, good. Thank you for that.

Because my, like I said, when I was walking in, my phone was, I was like, oh boy, I really wasn't looking forward to announcing the set times because you can't please everybody. And look, I'm a victim of it, too. Like, I don't want to play at the same time as my sugar or the same time as acid bath or the same time as, but sometimes it happens.

Yeah, it's happening. it is what it is. Like, do we did sound wave and we played the same time as Slivnott, same time as deaf tone some nights. Oh, no. Yeah. Why did that festival go away? We should do a whole episode about that. AJ, if you're listening, come on the Garza. Real quick. So, yeah, we got to plug in the show, right? Yes, we got to plug Milwaukee Metal Fest. We'll have a link in the description where you can get tickets that's coming up in late May. And I think we should do an offer. Like I think we should do a special offer to Garza listeners or maybe the people on your email list or maybe the people on your coffee list.

But we should do some sort of special offer for them, for the diehards that stuck through this whole episode of me fucking Timmy Tangent thing. No, people are stoked. Because, no, there's still a lot of people on the fence. I'm getting it. I see it on my social media every day. Yeah, because we went the same weekend as Rockville. and Rockville has acid bath and then also some people are deciding really late

although we're ahead of both previous years and you've been there you came and jam people loved it people were stoked yeah I wish the podcast was better that we did but now you know we live and we learn we got to have a better setup we got to have better audio we got to have chairs we got to be pro but that was my first year

yes that's a mess dude and it was dude talk about a grind making that thing work and shout out to the rave shout it to sound talent shout out to all the sponsors really like sumerian flight looks awesome man it's cool yeah shout out to dan dan goldsworthy and diego and everybody on the team with the graphics all the brave team um and so if you're coming in thursday come and jam with us again we would love to have you we haven't we haven't announced the guests yet for the jam we're going to do that i think either friday or monday so and you had a huge pop when you came out people were We're so fucking pumped.

Thanks, Jamie. And I was honored to be there to be real. Well, I got a lot of flack of people saying, yo, where the fuck is suicide silence? And I know you guys wanted to be on it. And it just was at that time, I think there was miscommunication with your agent, especially for 2024.

We were just switching. Yes. We were just switching, we're going to a big move. Yes. And I think that was part of it. Because I was like, what the hell? What did we do wrong? And that happens.

You can give a band everything they have. ask for and you think you know it's something that you did when we when meanwhile there's a radius clause because they're playing Chicago and I think that was part of it with you too because I think you would already had the Chicago date on sale and you were playing there in either March or April and it was it fell under the radius so it wasn't even our fall I think it was the Chicago promoters fall but I get it and believe me I don't want to get into the weeds of the whole promoter shit because it really it's been a grind having to put this promoter hat back on.

It's not something I wanted to do, but I did it for Trevor. And it was, Trevor was supposed to be doing this. He was supposed to curate it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then I got forced into it from the fans.

Like, you gotta do it. And so God rest his soul. I mean, it has been just, it's been the hardest undertaking in my life. But. But you're on the second year, man. Third. Third.

This will be the third. Oh, this is the third year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because last time people, because last year people were like, where's cars? Where's this? Why don't you book suicide silence? Why don't you book white chab? Why don't you book? Oh, oh, yeah. That was a, was that two years ago? I know. See what I mean?

No. Not two years ago? Yes. Oh, wow. And people think I have time blindness or that I'm not paying attention to the dates and this and that. I'm like, dude, you don't know how many moves are being made and how much shit is going on. But so, so the early fest, like I can show you I think it's Milwaukee Metal Fest 7 or maybe there's a couple ones that did go in May there were ones that were in May but then there were some that happened in July there were some that happened at other times yeah the only reason why I did it in May which

you know there's just too much traffic in May was because there's no air conditioning there was no air condition until this year oh okay so let me know hit me up you know I think if we move it into June like towards the end of June I think we won't have so many of the radius problems. We won't have so many of the, I mean, we're still have the problems with the headliners being booked in Europe. But I think we won't have the problems of like losing a bunch of the headliners to Sonic Temple. And Temple's a big one, man. And Rockville too. And so, and look, I love those festivals. I play those festivals. And I get

the bands want to make the same amount that they make at those festivals. But it's not, it's not fair to us because we are not a stadium, corporate spot. sponsored festival. Our biggest sponsor is Sumerian this year. Shout out to Blue Grape. Blue Grape, by the way, big thanks to Blue Grape. Check out Gridiron. Check out heavy hitter. They're signing a bunch of bands. Raining Phoenix music as well. You know, they obviously they did the D-Side and they did Kerry King. And Nuclear Blast, super helpful. Everybody go get that new gates to hell. And think about that. We made opportunities happen. Gates to Hell got on the machine head tour because Rob saw them oh wow at Milwaukee Metal Fest. That's what that's what you want to hear yes that's cool.

Yeah so so Sumerian blue grave nuclear blast um raining phoenix also copycats who would just help me press the perseverance vinyl and the and jost for all vinyl like without them I would be I would be worried this year but it's but because we're ahead of both previous years, we're looking to break the attendance record, but we also have to get these headliners in, and it's so hard when they're being pulled to the big corporate stadium festivals,

and we're literally a ballroom. Yeah, look at that. Like, how can you compete with that? And I'm happy that people think we're in that, like, we're not in that arena. Like, I'm happy people think we are, but we're not. Yeah.

We are a ballroom, a club, and a bar. So, yeah. So it's a weird, it's a challenge, but it's a, it's, it's well worth it at the end of the day because we're going to, we're in it long term and we're going to build something great. That's awesome, man. Well, luckily you have a lot of experience with dealing with politics. I already know, like, do you want this band can't play over this one. The logos. Logos.

I saw my logo, my logo's not big enough. I was like, fucking Johnston and great, thank you man. Nobody, I go only mad. Like I didn't want to go. So just so you know with the tribute, I didn't want to go there. Tim was like,

dude, you're promoting the fucking festival. You're taking on all of the financial risk besides the venue. Yeah. You're going there. And I'm like, no, I'll play early.

Like, I don't, I didn't. Yeah. It's a tribute, but it's just a fun, a fun thing that we're doing with Scott and Danny. But yeah, it's a crazy.

I can only imagine. How hard is it to, book a headliner dude dude it's so hard it's so hard i can't even imagine dude and think about this zach this is one of the only black label society shows of the year nice right and down cool down is not doing any other midwest shows camara i think it just did incarceration or one of them but doesn't really have a lot so but you're never going to please everybody um yeah and and you saw that you saw the the lineup we had for twenty twenty three and then last year we did power medal And now the power metal people are bummed because they were so stoked that we had Blangardian and...

Yeah. And Eternal Champion. Rest and peace, Brad. Also, also the death metal. You know how it is. The death metal versus the death core. Oh, I learned actually this year that I thought they were coming together, but they're still separated. They're not more separated than ever.

Yes. And what's funny to me is I call these dudes out. I'm like, bro, you weren't just born into fucking... liking atheist and malevolent creation and morbid angel. You were a dork like everybody else, and you liked suicide silence and hate breeding Lamb of God, and you eventually found it. So don't act too cool for school,

because now you've got a bullet belt or whatever. Just fucking enjoy this goddamn show. Yeah. How did it slaughter do you last year? They were the biggest merch seller of the entire two years. They had the most raucous audience. It was a legit. Like you could watch the videos.

When they go into Romstein, I thought the fucking floor was going to fall out. Really? It was sick. And I told Alex this because we just played together. Congratulations. Slaughter, but Bill. That's awesome. Yeah. And so when people were all mad that we booked them as a headliner and I dealt with a lot of that flack.

I mean, look at this. I was like, well, just wait and see. Wait and see. Just wait and see because we need new headliners. Yeah. And not for nothing, they did more, like they did more people than Lamb of God machinehead. Unbelievable. On the Sunday.

Unbelievable. So slaughter. And don't get me wrong. They had a stacked undercard. They had lacuna coil. They had In flames. In flames had one of the most amazing sets of the weekend because they're part of the history of the festival. But Avatar, I got to hand it to Avatar.

They brought it. And dude, death to all doing the death classics with Gene Hoagland. Because Gene, I got to figure out a way to get Gene there this year. Because Gene, without Scott Ian and or Gene Hoagland, yeah. So that lineup that the medley elitist were shitting on, that was actually the biggest day of any. Reality. What is reality? Right.

Right. And don't get me wrong. I love the fact that, like, I look to these other festivals for inspiration. Like, I look at Martin and I look at Sound and Fury and what those guys are doing. they get a bigger crowd for no logos. They just put everybody in one font. Yeah. And it's in alphabetical order, I think.

Yeah. And so you're looking down there and you're like, holy shit, they got Project Pat on there. They got, and they have a bunch of bands. Look at this. That's dope. And this is huge. So, and then there's another one that I've been really,

that I really like, that looks like they're just doing a great thing for the metal culture called Hell's Heroes. And they gave me the idea of booking Doro. Because I played those European festivals where Doro brings the house down. Now, when you go to a regular Joe Schmoe and you go, hey, I want to book Doro, they're like, why would you book Doro? I'm like, because she's the metal goddess.

She's the female Rob Halford. She's Doro. She's a legend. She's like, look at this lineup. So this is, you would say, much smaller. bands. You would say this is like this like these are bands that would be second or third or fourth or fifth from

the top at any other festival but because they've created such an amazing thing and Houston you know is not like the metal mech. It's not. Houston is not. It's a hard market for a lot of metal tours but what they did was they created something amazing. They created a community

and they created um just like an incredible place for people to go and have a great time. So it's not, it's not, they don't need these giant

headliners to have a great packed show. Yeah. And, and I think that's great. Much kudos to them. Because I booked Raven, I booked Doro,

I booked a bunch of bands that they, they had booked. And I was like, good for them. They need to, they need to have, like we,

we have DRI for 2026. I think I can announce that. Really. Exclusive. So in there, look at DRI, I bet you crushed that lineup. Are you already

thinking about next? here? Yes, and I want to talk to you about it. Okay. Off air. Okay. Because I want you involved for sure. And I'm thinking, well, yeah. So if we do go to June, there's another thing happening, though, before that. Okay.

And we talked about it briefly, but I'll just say to everybody listening and watching, if you're up, what, are we at the two-hour mark? If you're still fucking here, you're my hero? Yeah, we're at two and a half hours right now. Because I wouldn't listen to me for this long, but if you're still here, I'm going to be helping take over summer slaughter. I was going to ask you about that if we were going to be able to talk about it now or not. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I don't think I can talk about the lineup. But this is something that I've really wanted to do, especially after the reaction to last year's lineup. Oh, it's bad. Yeah. It's bad, dude. It's bad. Yeah.

And if you, you know, I, Ash is a man. Maverick and a visionary, and if you look at the early days of summer slaughter, they, if you look at the low, like, there was shows where like Whitechapel opened. Yeah. Playing first, okay? And we, they would always offer us this tour. And we never did it because we were always building in Europe. But now that we kind of made it where we need to be in Europe, where we're always within, either we're headlining or we're second or third from the top, we focus on Europe for a long time. time I said we want to bring back we want to we want to we want a hate

pre to headline a summer tour and so after the the reaction from last year I thought we could do this we can bring it back and we can diversify the lineup a little bit with some hardcore and some metal core but still have the death core and the death metal and the crossover or whatever you want to call it but look at that like look at animals as leaders was what second on the bill that's incredible um look

so so so So they created headliners out a lot of these bands. And we haven't, Heepred hasn't done summer tour in years in the U.S. It's true, huh? Yeah. So, but we're going to start small. It's going to be very short, like 14, 15 shows. And we're going to take small bands.

We're going to take the future bands. And for better or for worse. So we're not expecting it to be blow out bonkers, but we're just, we're also taking it global and this is what I want to talk to you about because it's summer

in other parts of the world at different places like Australia, like South America. Oh wow. And we also need to be not just like it's we're long overdue to start work in Australia regularly again. We just did not fest

and just crushed it and South America too. So yeah, so we got work to do, but it's good problems to have and it's good opportunities to have. And yeah, I really, I appreciate Ash giving Tim and myself, you know, the support of not only Milwaukee Metal Fest, but also the belief in us taking this over and trying to make something great again. Yeah, how do you, so okay, like with Milwaukee, I'm already having a heart attack, Did you want to be like just put the nailed in coffee? Hey, hey, give me, give me more.

You're fucking crazy, dude. Yeah, luckily we have a great team. And again, it's like we're in it long term. We're going to build something. We try to build the headliners of tomorrow and try to, when you came, didn't everybody say, like, what a vibe. What a great weekend. Like, there was no bumouts. There was no fights.

There was no ejections. It's fun. I knew the rest of my band was jealous that I went. How did you go? I was like, I don't know. No, it was a great time. We just have to figure out a way to make it not only profitable, but make it happen, I think, just a little bit later. I think June would be okay, especially with the air conditioning.

I don't want it to be like how it was when we did it back in the day where you're just in there sweating. Because that's the point of having an indoor festival, so you're not out in the sun sweating. Yeah, being Yeah, different people want different things Some people want AC Yes You know, it's very important Yeah, but it's it's gonna be a great time

If you haven't gotten any tickets yet Please do because this is the This is the one that you know If we be, we're already on track But you never know You never know until even with Even with that year with Lamb of God on the Sunday With Machine Head

We walked up another 200 people That really? Yeah, so it's like Fuck yeah You never know, and it's a grind, but it's a good grind. And yeah, look at that. Exodus, Dukes is back in the band. Dillinger with Dimitri, Scour, you know, Anselm's going to be there rocking out.

Trouble, Sacred Reich, Harm's Way, speed, absolutely killing it right now. They're playing, they just play Coachella. Yeah, incredible, man. Incredible. Yeah, it's going to be a good time. Yeah, I remember, like, the year I went, was fun. I was, like, wake up. I went to a diner with a getter, and it's hard.

hung out and I went walked across the street I went to the bar, got a beer, saw I don't want how many bands to hide a ton of people. I went back, had a nap, came back again. It was, it was like, it got a little scary after three days, I'm like, dude, it's like camp. I could let do this again and like the next day. Yeah. It was fucking fun, man.

Seeing Gitter watch the bands was a big highlight for me because he was so happy. He was having the time of his life and there were some great sets where even the I love it when you see the bands that the people kind of like hate on, but then, and you know you know all those guys, those impress me, bro. guys with the with their arms crossed and then when the and then someone thinking about that

someone will come out and just fucking crush it yeah and the energy is like top tier that everybody's vibrating at that high frequency and doro was one of them hammerfall was one of them that's great um i am morbid killed it obituary took the whole place down i mean it was we had a capacity issue that's part of the reason why some of these have to clash actually because we've sold enough where the rave would technically be sold out, but the ballroom isn't. So when Exodus plays in the rave, we got to have someone playing in the ballroom

or someone playing in the bar. Otherwise, the fire marshal could shut us down because it would be too packed. I remember the time I went, there's a lot of fun of people there. It's a lot. It was good, but it wasn't. We were so close,

but yeah, we're getting there. So yeah, but that could happen. We could go to June and we're already signed on. Like right before I, I was in the car and I was talking to the owner of the venue. And he's like, let's do it. That's awesome, man. Congrats.

Thank you. Yeah, we're going to, we're going to like, look at this guy. America's bet. Shout it to Wyatt Metal. That's got 36,000 views. So hopefully people will see that and see what we're trying to do and how we're trying to build it. And it's not about me. It's about the bands.

People are there to see the bands. It's bands first and foremost. Of course. And then you got so much slaughter, man. Look at Hoy. Shout out to Hoyia. Shout out to Doro, shout out to E. Look at that's great.

But yeah, summer, summer slaughter, I'm open, you know, as long as the feedback's constructive. Because, you know, we talk about people. Yeah. And we talk about places and events. Yeah. But the reason why I started the podcast was to talk about ideas. Mm-hmm. And then at some point, it became too much for some listeners.

because again, like we were talking about, that victim mentality, they're triggered by ambition. They're triggered by go-getters. And that became a big thing where people were like, enough, enough. Why do you have to pitch guests? Why do you have to pitch somebody on something every episode?

And I almost let it get to me. No. It came close. No. But then I did the corpse grinder record. And I had, because I thought, After the D record, I thought, well, that was an idea, a crazy idea that every label passed on.

I pitched on the podcast, and he agreed on the podcast. So I was like, shook. Like, I'm going to work with one of my heroes, and people could fucking hate it, and it's going to be soul-crushing. Or they could love it, and it's going to be, it's going to open doors like it did. Yeah, people, I remember people talking really positively about that album. Even the haters liked it, dude. It was crazy. Yeah.

And it was such. I was so depressed at the end of that cycle because I thought, where do I go from here? What am I going to do? It was such a high to work with him and then see it received so well everywhere. And then to get my buddies in the band with him, you know, Charlie and Nick are in the band with him. Congrats, man. Playing Twisted Sister songs and playing songs we wrote and playing new D. Snyder songs, getting huge reactions, people singing become the storm and for the love of metal.

And then I thought, dude, I was so. depressed after this. It was like I reached burnout. I was like, what am I going to do? And then we did the corpse grinder deal and got to sing about murdering people and brutality

and war and fucking carnage and that. Yep, and then it was like, fuck. And then it was like, what are we going to do after that? But so people, but, but yeah, so people who are trapped in the Scar City thinking. Yeah. It became a thing like,

stop like why is it always the music business why is it always and that's why now what you got to do is you got to talk about the ideas but you don't have to give them away you don't have to yeah you don't have to talk about talk about them before they come to fruition we're talking about um yeah like here's the like i did the song with george and it led to a whole record um they want your soul nice yeah yeah and this this is getting a re-release now too this record's getting a re-release and um and yeah

so now we're talking about summer slaughter we're talking about Milwaukee but like it's happening like it's not it's not too soon to talk about it because it is happening we just can't yeah we just can't talk about the lineup and all that stuff

um but ultimately it's going to come down to whether people want to support it or not want to support up-and-coming bands and you're gonna it's i mean you're you're no stranger to it jamie and it's gonna take work for sure yeah but yeah again it's an uphill battle for sure me uphill battle but i wouldn't be surprised if it was successful i wouldn't be surprised honestly i'm shooting like i'll be happy with 800 to 1,200 people a show we're gonna play we're like we're gonna play places that are

reasonable for just for us to just play on our own um but with up and coming bands who we like and we want to help promote and then also under the guise of like let's build something for the long term where we can take it to Europe, we can take it to Australia, we can take it to South America and then rotate the bands out so that they're not so that it's not always the same lineup right? Because that was an issue with the original tour was that eventually and that's probably why Heybree was getting offers eventually for it was because Because eventually it was, they've already done Cannibal. They've already done.

It's sort of seen bands, yeah. Right? And even when it's, even when it's only a year or two later, it feels like it was yesterday. Yeah, yeah. So then the lineup feels tired. We've already seen Black Dahlia on it five times or whatever. Yeah, that's a great part about it. Good luck, Jamie.

Thank you. Good luck, man. Chris, thank you for everything, guys. Thank you. Thanks to everybody who supports the podcast. Yeah, man. Thanks for listening this fucking long. Yeah.

Can we close out on one thing? Sure. Okay. Obviously, there's a list of mistakes that we part both made in our careers. One mistake I made and the band made, there was a year that we were supposed to do a tour with you guys. It's supposed to be us and Cannibal and you guys. Yes. And we didn't fucking do it.

And it's, I wish we did that tour. Desimation of the nation or whatever we were calling it then. It was sick, dude. It was, uh. Who took it? in place of you, I want to say on earth. Probably, yeah. Yeah.

We actually still talk, talk about it, because we ended up doing a tour with Megadeth, but it wasn't that sick. A lot of... I remember that. And you know what was crazy? It was because, and I've talked about this before, we've been submitted on every Megadeth tour since 1997

and have never gotten the tour until in flames dropped off of it. So we didn't even get it on our own merit. We got it because in flames dropped off it. But it was such a good tour for us. And even playing first to four, we gained so many fans. And that was right around the time of where

some of our social media was getting on shadow band and stuff. And we were, and was kind of, we were. Really? Yeah, because. You told of that shit? Yeah, because anything with the word hate in it Oh, no. Was even suicidal had their like Instagram wiped. I think terror had issues on Facebook or one of the platforms.

But yeah, so there was, There's these algorithms that look for like hate speech. And we would get like scooped up in these algorithms. And we were like, how is this that we're out on these tours and we're not even getting like a hundred likes, new likes on the Facebook page? The shadow band. Yes.

You guys been dealing that shit for a while, man. Yeah. Remember, uh, remember LimeWire? They would, that was dirty because people would switch your song titles. Yeah. I was like, what? And that, and that sucked because it was, um, It was a coordinated effort.

It was like a... Are you serious? Yeah. And it wasn't just us. There was other bands that they did it to as well. I did not know that. I thought this was like a joke

or people just doing that. It was like a coordinated... Yeah, and it was just smash your enemies. There's no lyrics. Like they would just make it some super racist, super offensive song title. And they did it to, like I said, they did to other bands.

But for us, because we weren't known and we were still in the underground, people really thought that that... It could have been possible that... We did have a song title called that. They were too dumb to realize that that's not the case. But hey, we won in the long run.

And also, you know, who knows? Maybe we should have, maybe we should have kicked down the Megadeth money to you guys. Like maybe the offer, maybe we were low ball on you. I don't know. So you might have been in the right. Maybe. But let me tell you, we did have probably the most fun. Yeah?

People could have on any tour. That's fucking cool, man. We can't talk about any of it, but it was so much. Like that fucking tour. I bet it was awesome. I bet it was awesome. Besides the typo tour, the typo negative, hayprey, three inches of blood tour, I think that Cannibal Corpse tour was probably the most fun.

Yeah. Like I've ever had. Look at that tour. But yeah. And you were already done drinking at this point, right? Yes, but I was living vicariously through typo negative. and oh boy Peter God rest his soul it still blows my mind that he's gone

like I just I had a dream about him the other day and I woke up and I was thinking about looking at his body like looking at look just looking at him and he wasn't there like have you ever been to a funeral and open casket yes and you see them but they're not there and it's like it's the body but it's not yeah it's not it's different right

I can't even put a word to it or words it's like an empty it's like it's just it's a it's a it's a phenomenon it's a it's a thing when you for something and and and I remember just I someone that one hit me so hard because it was he was such a larger-than-life character that you thought this guy's never going to die this guy is going to live forever like lemmy or like Mc Jagger or right yeah and then yeah and then I remember being on his funeral just looking at him and going, oh my God,

there's Peter Steele in a coffin. I remember being outside afterwards, too, like in shock. Thank God, like Billy from Biohazard and other dudes were there who were talking to me because I was like, it was not a good. It was like, wow, this is,

it really, like, everything felt, I was like, Halloween is never going to be the same. That's the most doom and gloombed I think I've ever been at a celebrity death or like a, you know, We weren't super tight. We weren't close friends, but we were, like, we were tourmates, and I had a deep respect for him,

and he was a fun guy to be around. And it really, like, I wanted to go and show my respects because he kicked down so many doors and was such a, I mean, the carnivore alone. Listen to SMD. Y'all break this whole fucking studio right now. I mean, that's one of the hardest fucking, hardest fucking breakdown.

To have a breakdown where you go, start sucking in the brink. in the breakdown? I mean, that's... Oh, wow. Like, that is... If you guys haven't heard Carnivore, SMD, like... Start suck. Can you play that right now?

I mean, it's so fucking... I mean, the guy wrote some of the fucking wildness best. Just go to the end and just listen to greatness, right? I'll fucking... I'll come out of Mosh retirement right now. That bass tone, too, dude. Oh, wow. Oh, wait. I think the breakdowns earlier in the song.

Did I say go to the end? Yeah. Yeah. Go before the... Oh, right there. Okay. Here we go. Dude, if you were at Lamoire, go back, go back a little bit.

Ready? Suck my neck. You never heard this? No. Oh, my God. Ready? Oh, wow. Start sucking and slam it?

Oh, my God. If you were at Lomore, you're going to die. Oh, my goodness. Ready? I'm going to come. Oh, no. And then picks it up. I'm going to come.

Yep, and then picks it up. No. To the two-step. You cannot Greatness. You cannot say I'm going to come during a breakdown

Oh my God Do you know how many times When Kenny played In typo negative Do you know how many times I played this in the front lounge? Oh, you cannot. You know how many times

I've blared this in the front lounge of a bus And sang it fucking one inch From someone's face Yeah So yeah That one

It's A lot of, yeah But we have the memories We have the The times that we share The way I do have Sometimes

I'm saying every once in a while, it's actually good way to close it. You know, how do I want to fucking die? How do I? It'll be a dream where you have a funeral and all like your friends' bands are there. That's a good one. That's a good way. That's a great way to die. Yeah.

All, like, do you fucking, dude, dude, Jamie from hatebreed there, fucking biohazard is there. That's a dream. People that, people that respect you that much, they're going to stop your schedule and they're all going to come in. and celebrate your life. That's literally like the dream. He literally lived the dream. Oh, he won. He won at life.

That is winning at life, dude. He really did. And for the short amount of time that he was here, definitely. But I'll show you how I want to go. Okay. There's a Werner Herzog movie. Do you know Werner Herzog, the filmmaker? Did you ever see the film Grizzly Man?

Nope. Put in Werner Herzog Volcano Movie. This is how I want to go. These people fell in love. This is one of the craziest love stories ever. So are you married? No, I've been dating my lady for five years. Okay, so imagine your lady says to you, hey, this is what I'm into.

Look at this. This is what they do as a couple. They made a suit. No. Yes. No. You have to watch this movie, dude. No.

Yes. And guess how they died, bro? Together in a fucking volcano. eruption. That's how I want to go. I want to, because I don't want to fuck. I don't want some guy fucking with my shit, touching me. I want to just dive into the volcano. So they're a married couple and they both go in together? And all they do is study volcanoes and they're like addicted. To them, like what guitar was to dime bag, this is like the volcano to this couple. Wow, that's love. How long were they married? You have to watch this film.

What's it called? It's called the Fire Within. The Fire Within. But also watch Grizzly Man. You never saw Grizzly Man? No. Dude, so you're getting put on to Carnivore? SMD, one of the greatest hardcore thrash crossover songs ever written.

Yes. Where he literally says start sucking before the breakdown and then I'm going to come before the two-step. That is very important. Then you're going to go home with your chick and you're like, you know, we have to watch this. And some of this footage is so. insane that he was able to get because this is literally like I don't care what you believe in this is literally the center of the fucking earth coming out look at that that is and they made they invented these suits and they made the materials and those suits yes dude look at this look

how close they get look at this you're not going to believe that a person has the fucking balls to go and that's a molten that's hell in a river right there bro it's literally a hell on earth yes look at that so you just dive into that you're dead and there you go

you're one with the volcano now that's a way to go look at them look what they're doing right there I don't care I don't care skydiving or whatever like come on compared to that husband and wife

how do you find a other person that loves it that much as you well that's the thing they somehow whoever I don't care what you believe in so if you think this is all an accident you think there's no purpose and nothing has meaning watch this movie

that somehow these people they found each other yeah it looks kind of fake too it doesn't even look real you're going to be so blown away because they caught it in in amazing film like they shot this on film. And one thing I don't want is same, same thing that you want.

Because when you die, they, they inject your body to all this fucking unnatural shit, dude, to make you look not dead. Like, you're fucking dead, dude. Yeah. Also, they'll disrespect you like they did with Kennedy and Tupac. Like, they'll fucking, they'll straight, like, imagine that. Like, your mother's got to see you on Google, like, all fucking dead and cut open. Don't Google any of that, please.

They posted that? Dude, there was a minute there where I remember. somebody sent me like Tupac autopsy photos and I was like dude do not do this you're dabbling in some shit you should not be dabbling like do not like you're you're you're

you're dipping your toe in a dark river bro like this is somebody's kid I know that yes bro then they sell them on the black market yes you don't know about this no don't oh dude no all right yeah I don't want to I don't want to wow yeah

so there's people that buy like autopsy photos of just regular you don't even have to be like a mild like there's Kirk Cobain autopsy shit out there and stuff it's wrong bro

that's why just jump in the volcano you avoid all that just jump in okay that way your mother doesn't have to see you cut open with your lungs on the side or whatever like whatever you know it's brutal

are autopsies are they mandatory do you have like a say hey don't don't fucking put don't do that if there's foul play suspected I think It's mandatory, I think.

But I don't know. Don't ask me. Volcano. That's it. You're right. It's all, you got it. So they won't have access. Yeah.

Yeah. Just dive right in. I know that will, yeah, we'll dive into, uh, dive into your dreams. Dive into, Jamie, thank you for. And dive into the carnivore catalog. Don't be offended because there's no victim mentality. You're not a victim by anything he says. Because this is a fence.

Some of it's offensive to people today. Oh, sure. That's fine. What cares? like SOD and but that's the heavy shit dude it's so good yeah Jamie thank you for your time anything

anything that we missed that we need to plug or uh nope just uh just yeah come see us on tour hatebri dot com jambi josta dot com martyrstore.net for tickets and meet and greets for the metal fest and thank you so much for the opportunity to tell your listeners and your viewers to come hang we're going to have a great time

thanks man awesome appreciate it that's it that's it made it