Garza Podcast - 187 - PHIL DEMMEL: Thrash Riffs, Machine Head, Vio-lence & Forgiveness

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Garza sits down in-person with lead guitar player & songwriter Phil Demmel. Best known for his time in Machine Head, Vio-lence & guitar player for Kerry Kerry. Also filling in for some of the most legendary metal bands on the planet such as Slayer, Lamb of God & more. Check out Kerry King & Category 7! https://instagram.com/phildemmelJoin the Chug Norris Army on Patreon! https://patreon.com/garzapodcast CHAPTERS:00:00 - Flying V // Sustainiac Pickup07:47 - Fitness08:55 - Golf11:27 - Gemco // 1st Guitar15:24 - 1st Concert // The Osmonds16:39 - Angus Young, AC/DC & KISS18:04 - C.W. McCall, “Convoy”25:32 - Getting Slayer Gig33:00 - Working Construction & Writing Riffs38:40 - QotSA Jam42:29 - Voice Memo Riffs47:19 - Early Bands // High School51:58 - Vio-lence // Torque53:49 - Joining Machine Head56:53 - Machine Head Lyrics & Riffs1:12:58 - 80s Thrash Scene // Beef1:15:47 - Vio-lence1:20:32 - Category 71:23:52 - Lamb of God1:27:04 - Hardest Bands to Play With1:30:01 - Hardest Slayer Riffs1:32:40 - Guitar Warm Ups1:34:33 - The Stowaways1:38:53 - Tornado of Souls1:40:27 - Dublin, CA1:51:36 - Self-Reflection & Forgiveness1:56:22 - Heart Condition & Father Passing2:00:01 - Charity // Non-Profit Shows

Are you the first guy here with the V? Maybe. Yeah, because these are, like, awkward when you fucking, like... You know? Practicing, sitting down is, it fucks me up, because when I stand up, it's just my hands in a different position. So I always, always, very rarely do I sit down and play, unless I'm just at home with an acoustic and just kind of noodle it around.

Okay. But, I mean, this is, if I can drop it down into a spot, that's kind of cool. Remember the, uh... What the heck is that? It's the sustainiac. It's the feedbacker pedal. And watch when you put some fucking sauce on it. It's fucking sauce it up, dude.

Oh, wow. And it has two settings on it. You can go... That kind of pitches it up. You hear it pitch up like an octave. And then you can... It holds the same note. Oh, dude.

And I'll do like octave, shit, like... Sounds better with this. It's like an ebo. It just vibrates the string. It's like a pickup version of an ebo. Yeah. I never really thought about it that way until you said that. Yep.

Yep. Pretty cool. You know what? I didn't really hit me until right now. What is a sustainiac? Like, what kind of pickup is it? I don't know. I didn't even know if this, what this one...

If that's what this one is. I don't think it is. I don't know what brand this one is, but... I know that Sustaniac is one of them. This is just a sustainer. I don't know. I had Fender put it in, or Jackson put it in. Yeah, what a...

Cary has... Sustaniac. Carrie has one. So if you hear at the beginning... And I brought this when I went out with Slayer. I said, I got to bring this for... Yeah, dude. There it is.

Then he hits it. Oh, dude. Oh, that's sick. So I said, I got a, I got a, I got to bring it with to play with that part, you know. And he uses it a lot. Kerry has him and all his guitars. And so like his solos, he'll, he'll throw that on and it gets extra sauce. That's pretty sauced up, dude.

That's pretty cool. Bill, demo, thank you for being here, man. We're chugging already. We're chugging already. Yeah. Already chugging. Already chugging, dude. Premature chugulation.

Demolition. So you're, so you're 10 weeks sober, correct? I think, you know, what's today? Today's like the 26th. Yeah. Yeah, we call it like 10 or 11 weeks, I think. Mid-April was the last time. I'm not saying it's going to be the last time.

I'm saying I'm on a timeout. Time out. I hate to do the never again or I'm over and I'll never, blah, blah, blah. But it's healthy, you know, like, had to check myself. 58 was uh just turned 58 just turned 58 yeah man born born in 67 born of 67 great year okay so you're you're not doing like the last one ever no are you trying to find like a new like like what do you try and do i don't like the party to end you know and um martha's funny martha martha said to say hello by the way and hey martha we own uh we own a bar and sometimes we'll go down in dublin correct

Yeah, and Melbourne, California called the Back Lounge. The Back Lounge. And we, sometimes we'll go there. Not often, maybe once in a month, but we'll go down on a karaoke night. It's a fun night. Yeah. And it'll be time to go because we've got kids, you know. You wake up with the kids.

You just don't miss that. And they'll be, ah, it's time to go, and I'll, like, pout like a 12-year-old or something. It's just like, you know, oh, time to go. I don't want to go. Have fun, you know. And so it's, things just got, you know, a little too crazy for a 58 year old to be, you know, acting the way I was and a business owner. And it's like I needed to check. I checked out a social media for a month, three weeks, something.

I just. Oh, that must have felt good. I checked out. And it was nice to kind of focus on, you know, being present for my family and making some healthier decisions. I still eat horribly. Yeah. You know, starting with that, you know, it's baby steps. Baby steps, man.

Yeah. How many drinks is it for you that is your gateway? You know, I don't. I'm not a, I guess I can be a casual drinker. It depends on the setting. But, you know, am I picking this up? This is good. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. You know, King, Ben. There's some drinkers. They don't rage. There's not raging going on. But it's a, you know, there's, it's, but there's no pressure to drink and hang. It's an invitation.

It's an open invitation to hang out and, you know, and if you fuck up during the show, you got to do your penalty shots for, you know, of Yeager and vitamin J. I heard rumors of the penalty shot. Yeah. Is it still happening? It's still happening for sure. for sure and you will fuck up on purpose yeah yeah i mean you don't have to the the vitamin j flows in abundance in in that world you know dude how many shots of jameson are are you doing jameson or

yager oh it's jaygar yeah it's yager yeah it's yager yeah how are you oh no yeah no no not i mean probably couple on a bad night okay but it's it's pretty loose and you know i and even if if i'm not drinking that I won't do it because I don't really enjoy it, you know. But if I fucked up bad, then it's like, yeah, I got to, I mean, it's, I don't feel like, I mean, I, I am an alcoholic, probably, you know, but I, but I don't have to drink, though. It's not, I don't have the itch to, it makes me different when I do drink. So I think maybe in that aspect that it changes my behaviors, but I'm not sure what all the criteria is for being an alcoholic.

call it. So I don't want to say that I'm not. But I've gone on timeouts for two and a half, two and a half years at a time and then drank a little bit from, I think it's when I turned 50. And then I went back, you know, on for, so there was like a period of seven years where I had like maybe five and a half years that I didn't drink. So when I do, it's like, we're, we're having a good time. Yeah. We're swinging from the chandeliers and we're singing journey songs and we're going to have a good... Elton John.

Yes, we will do Elton John. We will do all the good stuff. Hmm. So how are you feeling now? I feel good. You feel good? I feel good.

I feel good. Yeah. I mean, I've been running for the better part of the past 10 years. And then I ran last year on my birthday, I ran 15 miles, which is the longest I've gone. In one day? And, yeah, in one. I mean, I walked. Not a lot of it, but some of it.

Sure. So I'd go two miles and walk a quarter mile, go another two or three, then walk up. Oh, it's sick. So it's, but it was, you know, over a half marathon at one go. It took me like three and a half hours. It was pretty slow. But. Why did you do 15 miles? Because I wanted to.

Because you wanted to. I said, I'm turning 57. I want up. I'm going to go to half, I wanted to do a half marathon on that, and, you know, it wasn't like I trained for it, you know, but I've been running three or four times a week, and I'll go anywhere between two and like seven miles a day. Dude, how are your knees doing? I'm good, actually.

You really? The knees are good. The back. I golf a lot. So it's, you know, that has been kind of fucking with me. And that is, that's almost heartbreaking, you know, and it's like, I can't golf because my back hurts, you know? If you can't golf because you're back, yeah.

How bad is your back, then? It's lower back is, it's just the final finishing moment. Do you golf? Did we talk? You golf, right? So you're finishing motion and that stretch right there kind of limits. And so I will work through some pain to fucking golf, bro. Because it's a very, it's a chill sport, but the rotation of your spine is there.

Like the matter of how you go soft, but yeah, you are like rotating like your lower back. Probably the most. And as a golfer, you know that it's like, just swing easy, just swing easy. Yeah, you just got to swing easy. And then you fucking swing as hard as you can coming through. truthful. But then you pull out that driver. Yeah.

And you get horned up. Oh, my God. Oh, I just bought a new one, too. You bought a new driver? I bought a new driver. Calloway? Calloway. Okay.

Is it the A1 smoke? The smoke? A1 is pull up the A1 smoke. Let's see what we got. Yeah, I had been Calloway drivers for quite a while. Oh, the artwork is sick. Oh, yeah. It looks cool as fuck.

There you go. Dude, you can't. swing easy when driver is called smoke. No, come on, it's the smoke. It's the smoke. And I can, I can, I can smoke it, man. I can. But, you know, that's probably the most inconsistent part of my game is getting off the tea. What's the, what's the degree on that? I have it at 10.5. 10.5. It's 9. It's 9. But then I got it, I got it plus 1 to bring it to 10 and a half. Okay. How did you get into golfing? My dad,

golfed a lot. He wasn't that good, but he would go off for, like, work tournaments and stuff, and I'd drive the cart for him and got to playing and caught the bug early. How old were you? I was probably, like, maybe 10.

I know that. That young? Mm-hmm. But it's been off and on, you know, since I, when I joined, I mean, violence took up some of my time, but I still golfed a lot. But then joined Machine Head,

and it wasn't a lot of time for, and I was, before I joined, machine it in the interim between violence or whatever. I was, you know, playing, pick up basketball three times a week and going down and playing at the park and I'd go snowboarding and I was golfing and so pretty active in that sense. Yeah. And then join the band and...

It's over. And then you're not playing that as much. No, no, no, no. No. Hey, Philan, I kind of want to start from day one. Yeah. Okay. You down?

Absolutely. Okay, we're going to go on a quick journey. Hey, Jay, pull up the first photo. Oh, my gosh. Well, you know what today is? We'll get to that. Today is your son's 19th birthday, correct? Yeah, that is correct.

But we'll get to what today is that Dublin Jimco? Okay, what is this? Oh, my God. What memories do you, is this it? Is this the actual Jimcoe that you went to? Well, I'd leave that up to whoever pulled up the picture. But if that's the Devlin Jimcoe, then that is where I bought my first guitar. I think so.

Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's the one. It's now a target. but that is where it was like a membership store. Okay. And you had to go in with somebody that had a card, you know, like you had to belong and you didn't have to pay any dues.

But so, I mean, if you were a kid, you didn't have one. So you kind of just piggybacked on some other family. You just kind of walked close with them and just walking with them. Yeah. It was a department store. And they had like a music section. And they had, you know, guitar singing on the wall, except for there's just knockoffs.

They didn't have any, you know. There's no. even know who made it the first guitar but it was like a Les Paul a wannabe like 42 bucks it was $42 man yeah and my parents uh because I I always wanted to play music man a kiss was my band and Ellen John was my first record and but I wanted to perform but I also wanted to we'd throw these kiss concerts in the backyard yeah and me and my buddies would put on the makeup and I wanted a drum set You know, so I could, I got good at doing the Kiss logo.

Yeah. And then we wrap it with aluminum foil, you know, so it shined. And I wanted to have a bass drum to put it on. So I was like, I don't want to play drums, you know. So my parents bought me this toy little kit. And it's just like, there's just too much stuff going on. You know, I'd like stick. That's why I'm a snowboarder because I don't like the skis and all the parts.

I just want, I want a slab of wood and just me and them. And so. And drummers are weird too, so you don't want to. I know. So everybody, everybody funny, man. Yeah. Is this it right here? Oh, no, that isn't it?

It kind of looked, that's pretty funny, though. Well done. Well done. Jumpo, dude. So it was kind of like a combination of like a target and like a sound club Costco. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And they had a music department and they sold, you know, the A-Tracks because I'm old. This is the, yes, I got it. It's 70s, mid-70s. Yeah. And so they have the cassettes and everything with the big plastic things on it so you can't rip them off. And on the wall was this guitar and it was $42, man. And I had a paper route at the time delivering the Oakland Tribune.

And my dad said, okay, you get up half. You get half and won't match you. Yeah. And they did. That's great. Jumco. That's great, man. Yeah, I kind of welled up when I saw that.

Oh, my God. how old are you when you were doing the paper route? I was doing the paper route like maybe 10, 10 or 11 years old. Yeah, because I wasn't quite in maybe in junior high. I think I was about to go to junior high school. So started when I was 11 playing guitar. And I remember distinctly like I broke a string and so I bought a new string. I didn't know anything about the gauges.

but when I was stringing it up, I was looking down from the headstock. So my head's here and I'm tightening it up. Yeah. And it snapped. And the ball of the string hit me right here, almost fucking snapped right into my eye. I'm like, I guess I shouldn't be changing the string in this direction.

Yeah, totally. So dumb. So dumb. Okay, so you're listening to Elton John. You're watching the Osmond's on TV. and then did you hold on first concert

Donnie Marie Osmond at the Oakland Arena Really? Yeah Donnie Marie Osmond With the Osmond's at the arena It's my first musical show that I went to My next door neighbor Brian Hogan

Was that your cousin? No No No no No My next door neighbor Brian Hogan Was in love with Marie Osmond

Like that was his imaginary girlfriend in class, Marie Osmond. That's right, Brian Hogan. Oh, wow. And so he loved her.

And I liked, we liked the show, you know, and my sister liked, so my dad took us, took us all to that show. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah,

the Osmond's. But at that time, I was listening to, like, my cousin, that you mentioned, Ron next door, had, he was older,

like four years older. And he had Fogg hat and Aerosmith and Ted Nugent, yeah, ACDC and you know so rigged up he's showing me these records and I'm like oh what's this just just getting horny totally and so that's what I was I heard Angus play you took a lot about angus yeah yeah that was he's the reason why I wanted to play guitar he's the you know hearing

you know it was the live record if you want blood and just hearing him it's like oh this guy you feel all his emotions through his guitar you know and it's I kind of identified with that with like that's what I want to do you know you didn't have the best voice I can sing a little bit but you know it's like that is a way to you know

emote musically yeah so so you kind of got it from him like like whatever you're whatever you're thinking or feeling that's what's going to come out yeah yeah totally as a way it was a conduit from your I'm mad I'm sad yes exactly drunk. Yeah, you can tell.

Yeah, you can kind of tell the matchy between him and Malcolm is just... Yeah. It's my favorite band. If there was one band, that's my band. That's the band I would pick. Really? Yeah. So your part is learning all those tunes? For the most part. Yeah,

for the most part. He gave me Kiss alive and that was like, Kiss was the band that made me want to be in a band. Perform. But Angus was the guy that made me want to play guitar. So, I mean,

talent shows at school, fourth grade, my fourth grade talent show, first time ever on stage. Fourth grade. There was a song called, it was called Convoy by C.W. McCall.

And it's, it's mid-70s, man. So it's all this, this guy's the dark of the moon on the 6th of June, and it can worth pulling logs, Gabo of Pete with the reefer on. It's like, it's like,

hillbilly rap on a CB rear. radio, you know. And he's talking all this, you know, talking all this CB speak. So I was behind a cardboard truck, you know, talking on the CB and wrapping along to this record. Wow. Yeah, that's the movie. That's the movie. Yeah.

What? What was a theme song? That's it. This is a different version of it. No, this is different. That's a different version. Yeah. because there's an R-rated movie

so he could curse. Oh. I had the 45, you know, see the 45 of it. That was, yeah, there he is. C.W. McCall. Oh, this is serious. This is intro.

Snare intro? Oh. Where we going right now, man? You ready? Is the duck of the moon on the 6th of June and a Kenworth pulling logs.

Cab over Pete with a reefer on and a Jimmy hauling hogs. We were heading for bear about a mile out of Shaky Town. I said, Big Ben, this here's a rubber duck and I'm about to put the hammer down.

It's Shaky Town, man. Where's Shaky Town? That's L.A. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. About a mile out of Shaky Town. That's sick, dude. So that was my first time on stage.

Fourth grade. Yeah. Dude, those glasses are pretty serious, too. CW McCall versus Sakes-alive. Dave McLean would love the fact that we're talking about Convoy right now. Is that like both your like... Well, he remembers it well. He knows that he would sing it right along with me.

You guys are on the same age, correct? He's a couple years older. Okay. I think he might be turning... Did Dave already hit 60? I think this year. 1022. That's when you're going to start drinking again.

I'm... I have a thing. Sometimes I predict a future... I'm 60. I'm probably going to drink before that. Oh. I'll, I'll drink before 60. I don't, you know, it's, like I said, man, it's just that I don't want to put a time on it.

And I just want to just write it out and feel okay. And it's mostly being responsible the next day. What's up everybody? Finally, we are on Patreon. If you're tired of waiting for Mondays, you can now get access to episodes early. And if you're curious what happens before or after the podcast, Patreon will offer you behind the scenes footage. And with social media, YouTube, getting kind of crazy,

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We have a cover band at home. It's all my friends in this huge community of about, almost 100 people to play the last Christmas show. 100 people played almost 70 songs. Seven. All classic rock, you know, all the bunch of hits. Yeah. in ACDC and Sabbath and foreigner and, you know.

So we get some dudes that come out. Dean Castanova from Journey came out and jammed with us. Brad Gillis jammed with us. Yeah, it's fucking cool. When people are around, it's super fun. I mean, that's like the most drinking environment. Yo, dude, yeah. Totally.

We do one at the bar, which we did last week. Last week, okay. Last week. I didn't drink. But like, we had, and yeah, well, anyway, we have, it's 80 capacity. bar we probably had 300 people. Oh my goodness. Spilling out in the back and it was like a block party with, you know.

Oh, there you go. Holy crap. This is it? This is Fourth of July last year. Yeah, it's definitely looks like an 80-cap room. Dave Rude from Tesla came. Let me put my classes real quick. Oh, yeah.

Because the set list is like this. Oh, that's Rancid Matt Freeman. I'm from Rancid. base. But here you're drinking last year. I was drinking last year, yes. Just from looking at your face, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, probably Tony's up there.

And he's like, he's from a man called StateLine Empire. But he does all the Chris Cornell. And he's doing Brian Johnson here. What do you do for money, honey? So he does all the super high stuff. Yeah. So, I mean, waking up from that and just being, oh, I'm just tired. I'm not hung over.

I didn't, you know, I didn't drink. I didn't, you know, do drugs last night. It's like, yeah, I'm just tired. I can deal with that because then I get in my own head. It's just like, oh my God, what did you do last night? And it's just a whole. Where's my wallet at? Right.

War inside my fucking head. Yeah, where's my phone? Where's my keys? I do. Who do I need to call and apologize to today? It's a great feeling when you kind of don't participate. in the drinking. You're like, oh, I wish I was.

But when you wake up the next day, you're like, oh, this is sick, though. Yeah. This is fucking sick. I feel, I feel great. How old are you now? 3-9. Okay, so you're getting to wear it. You don't bounce back like you used to.

No, no, no. You know what's a problem is the seltzers? I think there's something in them. Oh, really? Yeah, like, because, you know, you'd older and you're like, okay, I want to fucking slim down. Right, right. I was with seltzers. I have three celscers, wake up.

feeling like shit. Oh, man. But, but, but, but, but, but, but I was like, I, I'm testing the theory. Is there a bunch of sugar in the ones? I don't know what's in there, dude. All the cellars, but then, you know, have this normal beer, I have three, four beers, wake up fine. Yeah. Yeah, there's something. I wonder there's something going on. I don't, we, we sell them at the bar. I wonder if there's something to them, I mean, I think it's too early to tell. Yeah. But I think there's some, I'll go out and say that. I wouldn't doubt it. No. I wouldn't doubt it for a second. Like, do you liquor, like a shot and then it's actual beer.

Do you feel, wake up again? Good. But again, yeah, you're right, the bounce back is not as, uh,

can't recover. Like, just can't. And it's weird. The, uh, last summer out with, uh,

carry and we opened for, uh, that mastodon, Lama God, uh, amphitheater run. Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, every day, we're not sound checking. And we're done by. No responsibility. So, you know, it's like,

I don't got to wake up. I don't, we're, You know, it was, we had some good times on that. It was, you know, this Kerry band is, you know, a bunch of great dudes, man. Congrats, man. Congrats, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty cool.

It's good seeing you out there. Thanks. Rippin. Yeah, I'm, I don't want to play my guitar with anybody these days. It's been really, you know, super busy, you know. Yeah. How did that gig happen? Um, well, uh, the day after I,

had my last Machine Head show, I got called from Kerry to go play with Slayer. The day after? Yeah. It was, I woke up the next day. What the heck? Life is so, it's so weird, dude. If you don't know the story, I'll tell you the story. Okay.

Okay, here we go. Let's go on a journey. I quit Machine Head and basically just left. We're supposed to do a video. There was a tour plan. and I said, I'm just done. And Dave ended up leaving the next day. And, um, that I'm, I'm, I'm, so we were, we were like, me and Rob had talked about,

what are we going to do? I said, I don't want to do the video. I don't want to be part of something that I'm not going to be a part of. And so it's kind of left to, like, if you want to get somebody to replace me for the tour, then do that. And, you know, I texted him the next day. And like, it's a dick move to bail on the tour. And you and Dave end up still doing it.

And we ended up doing it. So we do this last run, the last show is local-ish Santa Cruz. Yeah. And Marta comes down. She's been home with the kids with the, do we buy the bar? We have the bar. So she's been holding the fort down. It's been rough.

You know, I'm coming home, babe. It's the last show. You come down, get a ride. I'll drive us home through the mountains and Santa Cruz, you know. I hate that you. Yeah, it's so fucked. And so come down. party, let loose,

you know, it's our last show, we get down and do it, and during the set, there's this point during Killers and Kings where I see her, like, smoking pot with some random, you know, some random, she's smoking pot, she's already hammered, you know, she's in the pit, you know, she's pitting, and

I see a commotion in front of me, like, ah, what's happening up front? And then our friend, Jennifer Alexander's all, it's Marta, like, she's up there, like, and remember Mudbilly? Of course. Yeah, so Mud had this, you know, hunting and fishing, you know, one eyes up here and one eyes down here. I saw her and she was just fucking cross-eyed and just, I'm all, oh, my God, she's a wreck.

So it's Halo, it's the last song, you know, me and Dave's last song of our machine hit career. And they're making her way up the stairs. And I'm watching this as we're saying goodbye, you know, and she's upstairs with my cousins. And apparently she was throwing up upstairs. So me and Dave say our goodbyes. We go backstage and they wheel her. wheel her back on this road case, like just white and just throwing up all over the place. And so I'm all great.

I mean, I don't want to hang out. You know, it's just this awkward moment. It's just like I pulled my car up, made the Dexter kill room out of it with towels. You know, pile her in. See you later. You know, drive her home through the mountains of Santa Cruz. Oh, my goodness, dude. Get home, wake up the next morning.

And she's like, oh, my God, I'm home, babe. Here we are. We're ready to, you know, literally, this is no bullshit. Get my phone. She's still in bed. And I look at it. And it's a text from Kerry. And it's like, hey, you know, any chance you can be in Germany in a couple of days?

And I dropped my phone on the bed. You know, I just went, I'm like, you know, making sure, let me read it right now. Hey, maybe. And maybe there's a chance that you might or blah, blah, blah. But it's just like, you know, I text them back. He's like, now we need you, you know, like as soon as possible. And I show her the text, you know. She's like, you got to go.

Yeah, because unfortunately Gary's father was dying, correct? Yeah. Yeah, he was in his last stages. And Gary wanted to go home and spend some time with him, which was, yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's really fortunate that he had the chance to do that, though, and have that. goodbye. Yeah. You know, so I,

um, you know, and, and as he's telling me that, I'm like, send me the set list now. Like, now,

send me the set list. And so I'm, I don't even unpack. I haven't even unpacked for the machine head tour. I just didn't, took the same suitcase, was listening to songs.

I mean, I knew the hits from the first four records. Yeah. But there was 19 songs. And it's like, I need to know the structure. So I'm just. making notes, made a playlist,

get on the plane, just listening over and over and over again, making notes, making notes, and what's the point of this? Slayer, yes, how do I get the gig? So, yeah, making notes, think I'm good, I'll get my guitars.

I got a day, my guitars don't show up. Oh, no. My guitars don't show up. I'm calling Lama God guys. I'm calling anthrax guys. I'm calling obituary guys, all their car, all their guitars, it's a day off.

And so all their guitars are on the trucks. You know, nobody's got a guitar. Carrie has one guitar, but it's in drop B. It's his payback guitar, you know, so it's, I can work on payback. But so I end up taking his drop B guitar and transposing songs that I'm watching. I'm YouTubeing. I'm ultimate tabs. And I'm like, okay, it's here.

And then, you know, watching to see who's doing what leads and stuff. So it's all, it was insane. And then, but, you know, eventually was ready to go and pulled it off. And it was really good, man. It was really good. I mean, if you're ever presented in that type of situation, you'll do it, it needs to be done. You know, people's, I couldn't do it. I said, like, yeah, you would.

You would do it. If you were in a spot, you're just, like, sitting there, just listening to the songs and just looking. If you knew you had to do it, like, I felt I had to do it. I was like stepping out of this career. I mean, that is an amazing gig. You know, playing guitar from Machine Head is an amazing gig. And leaving that, I needed to, I needed to do this. This was a statement of, you know, I couldn't let this opportunity go.

So there's the reason why I played having music. They were, saw them in 1984 and I could have been in a more pop band or more commercial band. but I heard Slayer It's just like Oh, I'm gonna go this way And then I joined violence My senior year in high school You know

So they've steered me this way So it was a whole full circle thing With that band What a roller coaster You probably thought like Oh this is my last show For a while And then it goes from that to

I didn't know what was gonna happen You know I've worked Been gainfully employed Since that Paper route You know So I've For most of my career

In machine head I was a union carpenter Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, one is, did you ever quit your job to join the band? Because I think I found something like you were working on Locust, and you were a construction worker. Yeah. And literally, like, you were, it was 4 through to AM, and you literally hummed the chorus riff. I did. And I was like, wait.

What? Yeah, I still have it on my phone. You still have it? That's sick, dude. So I was thinking at this point, like the black community already came out. I'm like, damn, dude, he's still, he's a construction worker at 4.30 a.m.? So you get out of that whole part of crazy's ass cycle. I mean, you're talking like Patal Cotors.

Yeah. And you're going straight back to construction. And you go back to work. Every time I'd come back from a tour, I'd go back to work. I don't know that. I had a job installing commercial doors and frames, like doors and frames like this, and handles and closers.

And I worked my way up through the companies I was at to be a project manager, be a superintendent of all the installers. Oh, okay. I worked in the office, but I'd go out in the field sometimes. And so the guy that owned the company didn't want to lose me, so he let me come and go because he could cover it when I was gone. So he just, and he, you know,

I was really fortunate to, I felt that was pretty good at that, you know, at my job, and so did he. So he was valued me enough to keep me on when I came home. So, and he also liked the novelty of, oh, yeah, there's our guy, you know, plays in his band. So it was, it was good for him, too. So you're just installing doors just thinking of ritz. Yeah, I mean, and I still do that. I'll be driving, and I'm sure you do that too.

You know, you just go, I got something, and you throw it down. But that was, yeah, the locus one. And I think the darkness, um, la no, no, blah, blah,

la no la la la la la la la la la la la. That, that was one of those as well. So then we wrote that into the song, because I was doing it on the guitar. I figured it out on the guitar. So that's, and then it became the whole sing-along.

You know, that whole sing-along came from me in the morning. you know, humming it into my phone. How do you do that? Because even I struggle with that, like you put down like your riff, but trying to get it out of your head and then played it the way that you hear it.

Even now, it's like, it's still really, really hard. It is hard. And sometimes it doesn't work. It doesn't work sometimes. Yeah, because sometimes you're hitting, you're hitting like notes that aren't there, the Marty Friedman notes, you know, the notes that don't exist.

What's that noted? I'm hearing that. What is that? I'm trying to fucking play. It's not a note. It's not a note. How did you actually accomplish that with this particular riff? I just, you know, I heard it, and then I just found where they were as, you know,

and kind of maybe shifted it down so it fit into the machine head tuning because the machine had tuning is 40 cents sharp or whatever, like a quarter step. Oh, it's weird. You can't play along to those records unless you're tuned up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, that's what the quad can't do. No. Well. Can you?

I don't know. You know what I do is Here's my pitch here. And I think you can go sets. Oh. Is this up? Is this up? That's what that's poor.

That's what that's poor. Wow. No, you can. There's a machine ad tuning. Just go to 40. Okay, it's a pitch. So it's the pitch find. Yeah.

It's fine tuner That's those in between steps So how many would it be? I think it's 40 cents And that might be that I think the Pantera did it So if you're turned to E Well that's actually

That song's in D I think Is it? Yeah So is it the same thing though Like so it's like D but it's like a weird Okay, so here's, that's E flat, so you're D now. And then my, you, you,

I don't know if you subtracted it going that way. I don't know. Crazy. Holy crap, dude. That is sick. Okay. Yeah. Demolition taught me a new setting of the quad cortex.

I really, I really appreciate that, man. Hey, no worries, man. That's, this is the, because with these mercant stones that we do, weird they're you know something we do tompetti songs that are like he uses a capo on and and so we need to you know you could just go right here instead of having all the guitars and different tunings i know it's boom lower yeah you're just right there so good we did uh whatever we do the other day we did uh right here we did with my son playing we did do that even though it sounds easy that like

it's hard drumming pattern looks weird and i I know I can't play that. It's fucking good and heavy. That, they're weird. That is a weird riff. He's an amazing guitar player. Josh? Well, shout out to Josh.

I'm down three. So I'm in C right now. One, two, three. Just like that. Yep, just like that. So it's like that. Like an E minor. Up.

Up. You're this you are so not used to playing in this tuning Okay also okay just so anyone listening watching I'm playing a six string I know you're what I'm doing Oh shit so it's uh so that's five There you go Then the thing he goes That's it's so good right That's hard dude

And then he throws in these Then he throws in What the hell is that? And then he does like a weird weird bin that's the riff oh what you did to me no

oh then I yeah it's a it's like a is it a shuffle I don't know what the hell it is it's that Van Halen Pantera fucking shuffle that you can't

it's really hard man Stevie Ray Vaugh on the shuffle it's fucking it's not like How did they do that? Yeah.

Crazy, right? Good riff, though. What's the other one? Do George Holmes shout out, man? Sick. Fucking hey. I think that's the whole song. It does the...

The bass line. Matt Freeman played it for us at that Merkans gig. Dude, he is so sick, man. Matt is so good. Dude, that one rip, you are hummed? Like, how do you even... I guess I get another question I have. is how do you even start to go from like a hum rip on your phone to actually playing it?

What are you doing? I got one that I haven't worked out yet. Maybe that's what I'm missing. Like, how do I start? Because I was like, I fuck around. It's not even sounding like. Let me see if I got anything. You know what I did?

I think I just did one on the way down here too. Yeah, like 57 South. Let's see what this is. Okay, so that is, I'm trying to work out. this category seven thing for tomorrow. So I think, I don't think I'm going to do. So I'm doing, the note is wrong, but I want to go, oh, I'm in. So, bow, no, bow now.

So it's, there it is, it's a full step. I'm working this out. Yeah. This is how I do it. I love this. I love it. So it's in, I think this one's in drop tuning. I don't, I can't do that on this guitar, but.

And so I'm going to have Mike, I'm going to go, Blano, Blowno. Blown, so it's going to be row, row, row. You know, so. So go, three, prep. So it's, yeah, chromatic all the way down. Interesting. So it's, and then that's how I do it. You find the notes.

And I think I've got a pretty good, I'm not pitch perfect, but I've got a pretty good ear for notes. Like we'll be watching something and something will come on. Oh, that sounds like EF, you know, A or something like that. I picked up a guitar and I was like, how do you fucking do that? You know, how do you? I can't do that yet. Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, that's what, that's kind of an idea of finding those. Let me see if I got a riff in here. You're a shot, you're a shot. Now, see, those are just guitar rips. I'll add to you. Oh, you're just ripping all day. that one's a good one Oh, rocking a hook.

Were you drinking in that one? Oh, you know what that was? Those are the riffs that I just did this sweet water thing. Oh, really? They called me up and Phil X, do you know Phil X is? So he was supposed to do this thing with Billy Sheehan. Yeah. And he got called to do this Stanley Cup thing.

for to play with triumph, the band Triumph. Yeah. Little band called Triumph from Canada. And so he went to do that so they, I got to call, hey, we need you out here in a couple days. Yeah. Seems to be the thing, right? Yeah. And I said, what do you? Yeah, of course.

You know, what do you need? And said, oh, we need a guitar player to jam with Billy Sheehan and Tommy Aldridge, who is in Ozzy's band with Randy Rhodes, you know, my fucking hero. And so I'm like, do you know, you know who you called, right? You know? Yeah, of course. You know, you don't want the gig? Of course I do. But you know what I can do.

And so me and Billy were like the house band for this drum fest. And they had Tommy Aldridge, Art Cruz from Lamb of God. Nick Collins, who was Phil Collins' kid, Prague drummer, and this gospel drummer. His name was Calvin A. It's not Calvin Rogers. I've got your name, Calvin. But amazing gospel drummer. And so they wanted me to write riffs and present them to Billy and the drummer.

Nice. And flesh them out as a jam. Yeah. So that's what those were the jams that I was recording at midnight the night before we were to do this the next day. It's like, I got to come with these riffs to play with these legends, you know. And so those were those were the riffs that I was doing. That's right. So you're still doing it.

Yeah, dude. I am. It's crazy. You've been doing it for a long time, man. I know. Literally. Did you, so did you, are you the founder of violence or the, or the co-founder? Because it started in 85, correct?

85, I joined a band in high school called Death Penalty. I was going to bring up that name. Why did you switch a band? That's kind of a cool name, too. It was kind of cool, but at that time, everybody had death in their name. Oh, that's the death issue. Death was rapid, and it was just another death. band and dealers of death and whatever so our drummer perry my second gig with them we changed our name to violence it was june 1st it was like a kegger party for my you know high school you know

i was graduated that year so it's like high school party violence is for a show high school party i'm i'm just born you're just born yeah marda was one wow i was more 85 that's sick and you're just Rash and array. Yeah, we're... Senior year. Yeah, playing clubs,

playing clubs at that point. And you grew up... So you were born and raised in Dublin, correct? Mm-hmm. Okay. Same house. Still live there.

Seam out. Nice. And so, well, that's like the, that's the 280 and the 680, correct? 580, 680.

Boom. It's like, right there 30 minutes outside of Oakland. Yep. Right? Yep. You're,

that's like the area for, for Bay Area of Thrash. Like Berkeley was San Francisco was happening at the time Dublin was like suburbia we were kind of separated from

the hills it's a valley but Chuck Billy was from there Zet from Exodus was from there Oh wow My cousin Troy Liketa played in Tesla He was from Dublin

Nice Willie Lang who was in Laws Rocket and they were, you know, popular at the time. All from Dublin. All for Dublin. Yeah, yeah. Well, what is it about that town?

I don't know. It was a coincidence, I think. You know, people like-minded that were driven to play music and stuff. Did you guys what I see in high school? Dublin High School, man. There's only one in town. Dublin High School. Yeah.

You're in high school with Chuck Billy. No, he's older. Older. Me and Zat went to school. school together. Oh, okay, got it. Check was a couple years out of high school. Oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's all new. That's all new. I went there yesterday or on Sunday to see my son Wolf was in his, he takes a hip-hop dance. What a trip that is. Yeah. Pretty crazy. And it was new because that was like, this is the whole, the school's different for the most part. The gym is the same, but they, they switched

it up. Yeah, it's always a trip driving by your old high school. Like, it's a completely different building now. My high school is this completely different building. There's like there's a cage around it now. It's like So what year did you graduate? Like early 2000s or something? Oh four. So it's so long. So yeah, it's a while ago.

And then. 21 years ago, dude. When did you join Suicide Silence? When did that start? 02. Wow. That's your high school band. Sophomore year high school band, yeah. That's fucking awesome. It's crazy. So who was it? there are some friends that went to corona high school and then we would go to showcase and eventually

that's how i would meet Mitch and other members it's got to showcase is down the street for me right still that's awesome man it's now uh now it's going to be a gastro pub okay it's going to open a few months it's been nothing for years and it's finally going to be a thing but yeah uh that's just down went to high school with some friends we went to showcase and i met that's where i would meet like the uh what is that what is that place Devon High School Gym Holy shit

now that's before me George what is that Confederate flags flying flying from it Listening to Machine Head Weird Oh yeah yeah

Yeah I watched I watched your I watched the one you do with Robo It was really good Oh really? Not the whole thing Because it was pretty long Yeah it was a while

But it's I remember you on that tour One of the tours we did together in 09 And I remember that moment of you like oh man you gotta play from this day or was that the song yeah yeah yeah and and i remember him coming in and saying i think he's busting my balls but he really wants to hear it and you know and so that was such a great gift thank you for doing that oh yeah i mean that was his doing but i always love that song i love that record i love the burning red when it came out you know i was you know

i was you know i what for the i i was out of the music scene for mid 90s i kind of quit and was just got married and was doing we have what we have what we What did you end up doing after a violence split? Sean, the singer, quit. And so I had started, I sang. We changed our name to, we were called Torque. And we put a record out with me singing on it. And it was the guys remaining from violence.

It was basically violence without Sean. And that was fun. We did a record. We did the Dynamo Festival in Holland and had some, it was a good time. And then it was just. It was a quick cycle, correct? Yeah, yeah, it was quick. And they didn't.

I don't think that they picked up there. Yeah, there it is. So Mark, you know, Mark on the left is, he's a real close friend. And he's jams with us in the Merkins. And so he replaced Sean Perry in violence.

And he ended up being in technocracy with me. And he's just like kind of my right-hand local drummer guy. But he played in Forbidden. He's played in Heathen. He played in... He's a legend. Yeah, great, great drummer, dude. Yeah.

Oh, that's insane. I had blonde hair there, dude. Fleeched my hair blonde. Dude, bleach your hair sucks, dude. It fucking ruined your hair, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah, what did you do? You were like purple or something?

Yeah, purple and it just destroyed my hair. I'm like, never again, dude. I'm over. Okay, so we're looking at night. The dark demo. 96. Oh, my God. And that's, that was actually a, uh, photo shoot by our boy, uh, Mike,

Lasco just passed. the way he took that picture but Sean was actually in that picture and we just cut him out oh yeah we got these photos already do we got to use the photos too I mean that shows you what year it was it's biohazard shirt and you know we were drop tuning you know I saw machine head play a party and they're like oh it sounds heavy you know it's like so yeah I I mean ever since he started that band I wanted to I wanted to be in the band you know they were they You were, you know, I loved what they were doing. And it was just like, okay, we're prop tuning now and we're four-piece and we're, you know, we're grooving.

Yeah, so you always want to be a part of it. Because my main question was actually, I was curious, like, why did Bill join that band? Because they were at the lowest point in their career and you were getting over a failed marriage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you both were like this low points. Like, why would you join the band at the low points? Because I didn't know it was a low point. Oh.

And I didn't, and I don't know if I would, it's not like I wasn't going to go if it, if it was. Because I knew that they weren't signed and they're working on shit, but it's all stuff that I don't know about. And, you know, it's just like they're handling their shit. You know, and they know what they're doing. And they did. I trust those guys. And so I was just stoked to be playing gigs and, you know, being part of that band. I was curious about that.

Well, why do you join? Because once I was doing a little deep time, oh, damn, why was you doing? Why? why did you join at that time? Yeah, it wasn't like, it's because there was a spot available, and I was, I was free. I was like, you know, because I filled in for them on a, they needed somebody on a two-week European run.

And I jokingly said to Adam on AOL Messenger, or whatever was at the time. And I said, hey, man, I'll just, because I was practicing down the hall, I said, I'll just wheel my rig right over and join you guys. And he's like, well, why don't you do that? And I said, well, you know, I'm kind of not kidding, but kind of kidding, but I might not be kidding, you know. And it just worked out, you know, or a rob.

Yeah, it was great. And we, it was great, man. It was magical when we played. It was really fucking cool. You guys certainly had a chemistry. Yeah. And you even brought another dynamic to the band. Like you were like, you know, you and you guys were like networking out there, you know, hanging with people.

really put like a good face. I think that that was maybe one of the aspects why he wanted me in the band was because of that I was, you know, because I was out so being social, you know, I was kind of... It's important. Yeah. It's chilling. So, and I think that I brought, you know,

some awareness from different places to the band that might not have happened. Yeah. You know, I think that I contributed in a lot of ways of that band. You know, and it was, it was it was such a good experience you know and it was such a cool thing to have i've had all these different musical lives you know the the violence thing and then the the torque little thing

technocracy was another thing that was happening that was cool and then the machine had thing just took it just gave me you know all this opportunity that i'm doing now i'm really i am really thankful for that to have that opportunity and you're also contributing in lyrics Yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. On Ashes, not so much. I contributed some music and wrote, co-wrote a couple songs.

But then on Blackening was when he came to me to, hey, you know, got all these songs. I need help with, you know, open, open for that help. And so there's a lot of, I didn't get, you know, at that point, the crediting things. thing was kind of more vague. And, you know, I contributed a lot to songs, words here or there or phrases here or there, but it wasn't enough to get a full writing credit or whatever. But then down the road, we broke it down to percentages of like, you know, hey, you contribute it.

You should get a credit, you know. Yeah. And so Locus is when I really started contributing lyrics quite a bit. Which ones? The Locus concept was mine that I brought forth. the concept of people come in into your lives and just, you know, consuming all of your resources and then, oh, yeah, I'd probably have to go on flying to the next one. A lot of people can relate to that.

Yeah. So I had, you know, a lot of that going into my life at that time. And, oh, yeah, yeah. So that was, that is probably the most personal record for me. It makes sense. Whenever you dive into, like, a certain record, like, someone will say something. oh yeah this was like a personal record for me like it always comes up and like we'll talk about it's naturally this record but it always comes all i was going through something yeah i'm like

it's always like that it seems oh my god during the lyrics for for locust me and martha every time she we there's a couple parts in that song where we would just look at each other and just it's sad man it's heavy and um be still and know is uh was a uh a bible phrase that that my grandmother had passed down and I think I have it. There it is. Be still a note right here. And so that was, I wrote, contributed to those

you know, Darkest Before the Dawn type, you know, Rob's concept, but, you know, helped in that sense. One of the other songs. I wrote almost all the lyrics in Pearls Before the Swine. Yeah. Just about addiction and just cool

fucking adjectives. And what else is there? I Am Hell was, so I Am Hell is, was my concept. I had this idea about an arsonist, a pyromaniac. And, you know, if you were to steal their journal or have a look at their journal as they're going through their madness and descending into their insanity, what it would read like, you know. And then Rob looked up that, you know, most of,

the arsonists or pyromaniacs or whatever were the women did their crimes out of passion so he wrote it from this female perspective which was cool as fuck those lyrics are really fucking good yeah that's you know that's the most I contributed to those I didn't this is the end and who we are

were songs that were already done but darkness within like I said I wrote the let's get down to machine hit too let's freaking riff dude I mean after talking like that I think it's time for a riff or two dude okay I'm in this weird tuning so I don't know that I can do

I can show you the so that's that's the riff that I hummed and then I put it to these you know so so people again you are working construction it's 430 a.m. waiting for the manager that opens the fucking door. And what,

it's kind of knowing what you're just like waiting. I'm just humming it. I'm humming a tune. I'm humming a tune. You know, something. And then I, because I do that a lot.

Just, you know, just think, like a Billy Joel song I'll be singing along to or something that's in my head. And then I was just like, oh, that's kind of cool.

And then I have this device that I can just, you know. And the Locust one was the same. I'm in, I'm not in the drop tuning. So, and I haven't played these songs in fucking six years, so forgive me. Appreciate it, Phil. That's it, right?

That's it. Then it goes to a harmony. That's the harmony. Fuck, I've not played this shit. And since, so, yeah. There you go. So that's that one and the darkness one. We're both waiting at an elevator and waiting for this guy to come let me into this building with my scaffold and all my tools on.

It is boom. It's like, it's like, oh, okay. Well, just give this. And for every one that's, you know, really good and a keeper, there's like 10 that aren't where you listen to them later. And it's just like, oh, yeah, no. No, we just make some room. don't even put that in a pile. So were you humming something else first?

Like said earlier, like a religious, and then like, so you start with like a song you know and then go into it or just come out of nowhere? It can be from anywhere. It could be, you know, because I'll sing jingles to my kids. Or to even Marda at this time before the kids. But I'll just come up with, you know, I don't know, time to change the dip.

Change the dip. We're going to change the dip. Change the dive. You know, and that isn't one, but that's one that I just came up just now. But then some of them are, oh, hey, that's kind of the notes run together to it, you know, and little jingles. So you'll write a jingle about changing diapers. Yeah, or whatever. Boom, it's a riff.

Or picking up, you know, picking up the popcorn. Do a diaper riff? We're writing diaper riffs right now, man. So you just, it just has to be natural, man. It's just got a flow. Diper riffs. Got any diaper riffs? And you can't force it?

And you can't force it. No, you can't. It's got to be something, you know, that you know, when you've got a riff in your head. We go, oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, shit. Right. There it is.

Yeah, there it is. Diper riff. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, you're changing diapers and you think you thought of a riff, it's a diaper riff. Change the dip. You know, and sometimes it's just a rock riff. And I'm rack.

You know, I've got a slew of tunes that, you know, I'm going to do a solo record. and I don't know when it's going to happen or when I'll have time to do it but it's going to be like three to four songs at a time there's going to be there'll be fucking ballads there's you know

we've got the whole studio set up at the house with me and Marr she's got the synthesizer set up we got the whole fucking shit set up so we're going to you know we have there's an idea to incorporate just different people to come play on them too it's just going to be you know oh yeah see if they want to jam on this or whatever

but it's going to be thrash there's going to be thrash tunes. There'll be metal songs. They'll be rock songs. There'll be, you know, ballads. You do it, man. Oh, it's going to happen. I've got, I've started pieces. Yeah, I've started pieces. Do you want to hear some riffs? Yeah.

Let's hear some riffs. So I'm not that, I'm not that, uh, I'm not that good at programming drums. But I've got, I've got the, whatever, the, the, the drummer. Whatever it is. You know what I'm saying. The program of the easy drummer, thank you. Easy drummer, not so easy to say.

Exclusive riff. Let's see what I got. Dude, this is going to be our first exclusive riff? Oh, yeah. I don't care. Let's see what I got. Because I... Do you have your phone backed up?

This is on Dropbox, so it's in the cloud. Oh, you're clouded up. I'm not... Oh, yeah, take this one. So this is something... I don't even know what it's for. You know, it could be... So you're just writing music.

Yeah, just writing music. Let's see what happens. Load up. It's in seven. Oh, there's no keys on the phone. So these are drums that I program. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I got it double time.

Now it's a night. There you go. That's the taste. That's rad. Who you can get to play drums on it? I don't know. I got my boy Mark Hernandez plays on some stuff. Yeah, you should definitely...

You should definitely play. Put it out. Let me, uh, one more music. You want to hear one more? Yeah. Okay, let's see what else we got. I'm here to just listen to a rip, dude. No.

Oh, you're going chunky. I got one with drums. I wonder how that sustaining act sounds with a chug. Oh, yeah, there's drums on this one. So shitty, apparently. If I find a beat that has the drum, the snare in the right spot. Two parts. Nice, that's freaking chunked up, dude.

How would that go? Get out of this, dude. And just like that. Something like that. What's the thing. Yeah. And the right tuning, it's, it was a technocracy riff that Rob wanted to use for clenching the fist of descents. Oh, wow.

Oh, wow. Oh, no, pika, pika, pina. The tuning's wrong, but, I mean, that's, I like using the tune. Yeah. I got a riff that, not a riff that I want to use on something. But it. That's sick. Something like that.

That's kind of cool. That's dope. I'm kind of horned up, dude. Yeah? I'm horned up, dude. You're horned. That's it, dude. I think I've ever heard that before.

I like how you're talking, Chris Garland up. I like how you're talking. What's up, you have like a, especially throughout your, like, career, do you have, like, a favorite riff? Favorite riff. Because everyone always asks you, what are your favorite riffs? But there's something to, like, when you make it a same. single riff do you have one there's there's like violence riff yeah for violence there's a song called phobo and it was kind of a mid-paced riff that was a that was uh that one

there's a riff in torture tactics that uh maybe you want to play this one with me because it's two-parter so i'll play my part yep oh yeah well played sir well played so now do it again do it again And then I'll show you what I do. Okay. One, two, three, four. One's going up. One's going down. You can watch it later.

Oh, crazy. Yeah. So that was one of my, that was one of my favorite earlier. Yeah, I heard you talk about phobopia because that's the one that just, it stays in your memory, right? That was one that was kind of catchy and it was always like the, Violence was always just playing so fast all the time. Super thrash. You know, super thrashy.

And that was one of the more. Da-da-da-ba-da-da-ba-da-ba-da. Was that first one again? The, it was more like chunky. It was like, uh, that's a sick riff. Was there a, was there, uh, where were you at in like, uh, in your age and your life? I think I was... When you wrote that?

I think I was 19? 19? Uh-huh. 19. Yeah, there was a couple of parts when I wrote that. Um, that it had a stop in it

that I just stopped playing because I was writing the riff. Yeah. And I gave it to Perry our drummer and he just ended up stopping with me. And then he came back in. And so we create... It's like,

no, there's not a stop. Well, it's kind of cool. So we'll just keep it. Keep the stop. And then I went back into it. It's like, Oh, yeah, let's keep that. That's kind of a cool little spot where you shouldn't have stopped.

Just came from the soul. Man, the late 80s, there was so many things happening in the Bay Area. You're in it, dude. Yeah, you're in it. We were watching Exodus become what they were becoming. We watched Metallica become what they were. We saw them playing the clubs. You know, they did have this.

They've always been super cool. this. They did this kind of unannounced show at these smaller clubs and just people just all over the place. They're the people's band. They are the people's band. They always have been and they still remain that, you know. So watching that all grow, watching legacy become Testament become the monster that they are and still are. Still are. So doing it. Yeah. It's crazy. That was like this incredible competition of, you know, all these lower tier bands. you know, trying to fight,

you know, forbiddens and heathens and, you know. Yeah, how was the, how was the competition level there? What, was it healthy?

Was your standard, healthy amp plus a little bit? Yeah, it was, it was, I mean, it was healthy, but there was,

there was, there was beef. There was beef. And I think that we had beef with everybody. Yeah? Not like the older bands, like Exodus and Legacy

or Testament, who were clearly above us. I mean, Death Angel to that point, too. They were, but we felt like We could hold our own with any of them and that, you know, a lot of them didn't want us playing right before them.

You know, we, yeah. The band brought it live for sure. And we had that cult. Yeah. Kind of Slayer fan mentality where they were just like fucking violence, you know. Yeah. And, you know, in the Bay Area, in the Bay Area. Everywhere else, L.A. a little bit, but, you know, anywhere else,

we just, we never really broke outside of the Bay Area. Yeah. It really started there, huh? Yeah. Yeah. There's something as... Yeah. What was the...

Well, that's the stone. The stone. S.F. San Francisco 87. Look at that fucking stage right. Randy Rhodes guitar. Like how high I'm wearing it. So, Rob, losing his mind.

He headbangs so hard. Just moshing on stage and everybody had a chords and fucking... Do you remember the show? I think, yeah. It was one of the early headline shows. that we did. I think I'm tuned lower. Yeah, that's a half step higher. So you were talking, so we were talking about what today is earlier and then it was like

my son's birthday. Oh yeah, yeah. And today is the 37th birthday for Eternal Nightmare, our first record. It came out 37 years ago today. 37 years ago, man. Pretty awesome. Riffing. Yeah, totally.

Oh, my. This is, there's something about thrashing bangs, huh? Yeah. It was just, I mean, I couldn't grow my hair. I mean, my mom said as long as it's out of my face, you know, so I had the mullet because I cooked at a sizzler. I was a cook at a sizzler? Oh, you're at a sizzler?

Yeah, dude. So as long as I had it out of my face, then she was okay with it. That is the loophole having long hair. Yeah. I had the mullet, man. You had a mullet? Yeah. It was growing out a little bit there, but I had the bangs.

Oh, you got a crazy. I had a size, I had a size medium shirt there too. Medium shirt. That ain't happening now. Now I tried. It's, it's a distant dream.

Yeah. I'm like, you know what? I'm telling him how I grow up. You know what? I'm going to get a six-pack. After a day, I'm like, fuck that, dude. I'm over it.

I'm going down to the corner and getting a six-pack. Yeah. So, actually, you know, I'm in my mind. I'm just a large shirt instead. Oh, yeah. There you go. Ex-o shirt. You just decided.

It's tough. Did the bangs for a thing, dang, dude. Bang through a thing. Banged up. We're in a... We're in a... We're in a junkyard there in San Francisco

and a bunch of vehicles were there and we had just like destroyed so many windshields. And Perry with the, like Venice Beach shirt or something like that. Sean would always give him shit about like, your shirt say nothing, Perry. Like truck stop shirts, you know? It's not even like it.

Rob's wearing a Voivot shirt, you know. What a finish beach? It's pink, I think there's pink on there. What do you wear? What's that? Is that pink? I can't tell. Is that pink?

Yeah, it is pink. Calling you out, Perry. Dude, that is. Say nothing shirts. That is pinked up, dude, for sure. What's your favorite memory from this time period? Because, you know, there's a lot of people like me that are, you know, just weren't around. during that time.

Right. I mean, I just think that the Bay Area at that time, there was three or four or five clubs going on, and you can go to metal shows, like, just every night of the week. And there was a core, two, three, a hundred people was like, oh, there's a show tonight, we're going to go support local bands. Yeah. So it was a really cool scene.

Nice. I just, it's, you know, times changed with everything. But having been a part of that and seeing it all, I think I was right. My age was right in the good blend of catching. You know, you missed a lot of the earlier, really early Metallica stuff and Exodus stuff, but caught the tail end of all of it to see it all the way through and watch the whole bay grow in that sense.

And it's awesome seeing these guys that are still playing and Exodus still selling out over here and doing their thing. Yeah, it's really cool. She shows the esteem power. People still love it too, man. People still dig it. Well, now more than ever. Is that?

Yeah, that's in Houston. More than ever right now. Because we all had our Z-Rock shirts. Z-Rock? Bangs. Bangs. We played with, uh... See, we're moving, man.

Look at those young guys. You guys are rocking, dude. You guys are rocking, dude. We played with overkill, testament, and nuclear assault at the show. Pretty awesome. Dude, you guys are, oh, yeah,

guys are fucking rocked. You're freaking rocked up, dude. Oh my, it's like a fucking, there's nothing better than seeing a band as headbang hard as fuck,

dude. Still, it's just, it gets me going. That's it. Yeah, yeah, a lot of bangs.

And Dean, so the bass player started, see he's got his head shaved on the sides? Yeah. This is like,

he was one of the first people in our area to do it. And Newstead took, took it on. Oh, Oh shit. It came like a thing. Yes.

Oh shit. Dean was a, he was a trendsetter, man. He was a cool fucking dude. I don't think I'm wearing an evil dead shirt, too. And we're playing with them on Monday. He's banged up. Oh, yeah. So you have your first show.

Yeah. So this comes down on a Monday. So technically your listen and watching is happening today. All right. Okay. So first show, man. At the whiskey. Tonight.

Yeah. First show. Me and. Category 7. Category 7, John Bush singing, Mike Orlando on guitar. Have you seen him play guitar? No.

Rippin? He's the fastest guitar player I've ever seen. Really? Fastest guitar. Oh, you're seeing that. I'm scared. He's fucking quick. Like, you can't, you know,

how are you playing this? Yeah, pulled up of Mike Orlando. Jesus Christ. Jason Bittner on drums. I'm Charles Paul. And Jack Gibson from Exodus on bass. Nice. So we did this record.

I recorded it at my studio at home, and so it's kind of done remotely. And, yeah, that's him. Watch this shit. Oh, shit. And it's clean that the game's not that high, dude. Oh, wow. What are you doing?

How is he playing that? He's insane. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah, right? What, though? Yeah. It's like, hey, Mike, can I solo first? I don't want to follow that shit.

I always get the first solo. A tasty vibrato. What are you doing? Nobody does that. He's in the other zone right now. The zone, I didn't even know existed. Oh, what the fuck. Yeah, exactly.

Good old Mike Orlando. Love you, Mike Orlando. Yeah, so we've, we didn't. Wow. I flew back to Bittner's house. He lives in upstate New York, and we wrote one song together. We had a writing, it's like,

we need to write a song. I would need to get in a room with a couple of you guys, at least. And we did. We came up with a song that ended up on the record. And so yesterday was the first time that we jammed really as a group. Wow. And no Jack yet. Jack isn't here yet.

And then Bush came today. So today was the first day that the four of us have played. And Jack doesn't get here until Sunday night. So we'll have one rehearsal with Jack before we do the show. Oh, my goodness. Well, we guys have a. record. We have a record, yeah.

But we've never played as a five. Yeah, here we go. So you guys weren't kidding when you said live debut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is, it is. It's also a debut for us, too. It's my first. Yeah, it's exciting. I love the songs.

It's, uh, it's metal. It's, it's rock. Metal. I mean, and Bush writes the hooks. The songs are super hooky. So it's, uh, it's, it's, It's really cool that it's two separate things, you know. Yes, yeah, it does.

We're going to do the headbangers boat this year. Oh, that's me sick. People always want to do something like that. And then we have a show the night before. It's like the pre-party or so. So we're, uh, yeah, it's exciting. We're doing the pre-party bro. Are you going to drink there?

You know, you're on a cruise ship. I know, what do you do? But you know what? I did ship rocked. So the first time I did, you're going to drink. did shit rock they did with lamagod because i was playing yeah free it was a fucking lamaggot how how much time did you did you have to learn i had some time with that okay because uh they i don't know if you remember they went out with megadeth on uh as right after things opened up with

covid and they did a tour oh yeah yeah yeah so they were they had like their bullpen set up just in case somebody got sick so oh yeah i was like one of their bullpen guys to learn i learned mark and Willie stuff back then. Yeah, they had people in a bullpen. So, oh my God, this is, yeah, redneck in the rain. Jesus Christ. That's sick in the rain,

yeah. Let's go. It was dumping. It was dumping. And so I was more prepared for this. I learned Mark and Willie's side. But then a little bit after, there was a,

John had to be home and he was going to miss a couple shows. And so I ended up playing bass for them for three shows. Oh, dude. they're it's weird because all these bands um i did the same for testament i went out with testament for a couple weeks because alex had something come up so all these bands have their language that they speak you know because they're they're they're they're like drop d they're they're mostly they're drop tuning so they got their box that they work in and that they write in slayers got their own mandarin chinese language they know that they write in oh yeah uh so

it was just pissing right dude it was And but then, you know, Lamb of God, Testament has there's two. So as you've, I filled in for overkill. And so overkill, you're learning all these languages as you're playing. And you, I mean, it just makes you such a better player, too. Because you need to understand how all these, they use different, like, voicings for chords and stuff, too. So you learn how to, your hands got to go this way for certain things, too. So it was really, it's been a blessing, dude, to be able to do.

all this different shit. Yeah, how do you learn their language then? You know, I've got some trusted guys that I go to on YouTube who have done the homework that you know that are playing them right. There's some tab sites that I work with too. But you also, you watch how they play it on some videos and discern by your ear that's like, I don't think that note is right or something.

And then you can find different ways to play. play it that's more comfortable for you because like Willie Adler he is a freak man yeah and him it's funny that him and Mark said that they they both have said that they will try to outdo each other with riffs like oh hey well you think that one's hard i'll come up with this other fucked up ref to you yeah so they're healthy competition they're incredible man they're they're such a good he has the weirdest picking style of the end i've ever seen But he's great. He's great and clean,

and they, there's such a, such a cool fit together the way that they, they write. So, I got two questions. So, so,

so you played with, again, like the list, you played with all these great bands on the best on on the planet. What was, like, the heart, what was the hardest for,

the hardest gig for you? Hardest songs, hardest rifts. Man, you know, some of the, Slayer stuff was hard because I didn't know the songs. And so they're all difficult, man.

None of this shit is easy. I played a non-point for a couple shows, too. Oh, really? Yeah. I know that. Yeah, early. Early on, I did a couple shows with them on the West Coast. They were opening for POD.

And that was, I love that band. So it was such a cool thing for me to be able to play with them. And so, you know, playing with them. And that wasn't easy. You know, Testament was hard because I'm learning Alex of solos. And there's just some of them that I've just not, I just don't have the capacity to do, but I can play his melody lines the best that I can, you know. But from a music standpoint, it was the easiest because I was so familiar with the material.

Like I knew the tunes. I knew the structure. I knew when stuff was coming up. So it was just learning the parts, not the songs. Yeah. Some of the Lamb of God stuff was just fucked up, you know, riff wise. That, you know, I locked in with the Testament guys, you know. And I will say that with confidence that, you know, Testament overkill, Slayer, Lamb of God, you know, that I locked in with those guys.

And I could tell they were feeling that, you know, it wasn't, you know, this huge drop off. Of course, there's the personality of the playing and replacing a member. It's not, but there was like, that they had felt that... You like, like, that I... I felt it. I was like, oh, shit.

Yeah, that it was not, you know, a step down in that department to where it was, like, really lacking or whatever. Yeah. We're locked in, dude. The Slayer was tough because of, you know, I wouldn't... I was just playing.

You know, I look at all the shit's going on behind you. there's just fucking flames and you know kibuki drops and you know it's and i'm just like don't fuck it up this one's seven and then this one's on the third fret and you know because i would say slayer was the was the hardest because there's that's not conventional keys you know uh chord progressions they're all over the place you know they they are all over the place it's half step mania and you know half step meaning yeah it's It is Mandarin Chinese, bro. It's like, whoa.

But it makes sense. You know, when you listen to it sonically and musically, it all makes sense. What's the hardest slayer riff for all the rivers that might want to learn? It's the hardest layer of. I mean, there's some stuff that's just fast. Is this fast? Yeah, like it's just fucking horned up. Yeah, it's just fucking, it's quick.

And I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I could just pop into it. Slayer. Sick. And then... You know, it's just... It's just quick. Chemical warfare is hard because it's... Yeah.

Half step mania, man. There's this fucking riff after rift after rift after riff. I don't know if I could play fucking chemical warfare without... No. I'd have to think about it. Oh, that's fucking hard. Especially coming in and cold. That's weird.

That is. And even... And even... Some of the... Some of the... At dawn they sleep, you know, it's just weird counting and... It's geometry, I think. I think it's more geometry with them.

Weird. It's the way you're here and if it's comfortable getting to, I think that, you know, Jeff and Kerry were more, oh, it just makes sense being in a box here and finding the weird notes in the box. In harmonies that were weird. It's weird. Yeah, they're fucking weird.

Wow. And I really put you doing together. It just looks weird too. Yeah. Great band, man. Super powerful. When you have like a go-to warm-up? Yeah, I do.

There's like so many different styles. You have like a go-to? My buddy Brian Smith showed me the same. And it's not even a warm-up with your hands, but it's, you put your hands, you know, kind of like this, and then you're moving these two. You go, bam, bam, bam, bam, bramp, bramp, and then you move these two. Mm-hmm. Bram, bramp, bramp, bramp, bramp, bramp, bramp, and then these two.

Bram, bram, bram, man, and then these two. This one's hard. Mm-hmm. Oh, my goodness. Like that. So it improves your. the dexterity and it gets your fingers, you know, used to doing this movement because, you know, your third and your fourth finger together, they want to stay together as much as possible.

Yeah. So it's getting that independent, you know, this one. Like that. It frees them up. And then I do the Vinny more, the... I like that one, too. Or backward. I bet.

I think Rob, Rob did that one forever. flying I've actually had a guitar players telling me to don't do not do that I don't listen why not I don't know like oh it's not like this where my dude this feels good to do then nan nan nan nan nan nan nan nan nan nan nan nan nan yeah it's that it's helped me out a lot I don't know I'm glad I was doing I don't give a shit you you and robber goat so I'm gonna keep doing it don't don't do that you don't do that all the fucking pyro going on there is like I'm just fucking it.

Don't fight up. What are some of the, what are the fun ones? Like, what, what is, like, what is, like,

what is, like, oh, I'm, like, I'm having a lot of fun right now. Um, ah, shit, the Merkins gigs are great,

because it's all cover tunes and everybody's drunk and there's, you know, there is something to, the non point, the non point was fun because I, I, I loved the music.

Yeah, I love the dudes. Yeah, that's awesome. And it was a different, it was more of a rock trip for me. It wasn't so metal. and it was like a different crowd.

So it was like, that was a super fun gig for me. I did, uh, the craze, one of the, one of the hardest gigs for me was, uh, I was a stowaway on, uh,

the ship rocked. And I don't know if there's any video of this, but, um, I did my buddy Tyson Leslie. Uh, I was doing, so,

so you're still away. You're just doing jamming. I did like a kid rock song and I did Marilyn Manson song. You're just part of the, You're part of the All-Star thing, Jason Hook, and they bring people on called the Stowways, and you're like the All-Star band and you jam. Buddy Tyson Leslie, he's a keyboard player for Vixen, actually. But he's a Nashville guy.

He plays piano. He sings. He could do the beat-it solo while he's saying, you know, he's just an incredible guitar player, just incredible musician. And we're riding the bus over. And I'm all, hey, what are you doing? He's like, hey, you know, I'm doing some songs of course. Corey Glover from from Living Color.

Yeah. And I said, well, yeah, if you need anybody to help, Jamme, so yeah, we're doing a set. If you want to, here's the set list. And I got it. Let me show you what we did. So it's just me. And Corey Glover, Tyson's playing the keys.

I've got my quad. And we're in the atrium, which is just like a little bird cage in the middle of the ship. Yeah. And this guy, Jack Evans, I forget who he plays drums with, some country chick. So he's on a little trap kit. There's barely room from him in this thing. And so it's fucking Cory Glover, dude.

And fucking glasses. He gets me these songs and they're, they're not, you know, it's not fucking war pigs. It's, so it's, it's a superstition by Jeff Batt, you know, but it's a Stevie one. their song.

No superstition. Oh, yeah. Well, Tumbling Dice by the Rolling Stones. Reland in the Years by Steely Dan. You know, Steely Dan, incredible musicians. Wanted Dead or Alive. Bon Jovi.

We knew that one. Wild World by Mr. Big. Nice. Create by Radiohead. Of course. Purple Rain. Mississippi Queen. Hotel California.

that's not a solo that you can just add lip. Yeah. So I don't think I was drinking on that, on that, on the boat. Because I was in my cabin just woodshedding this set. Really? And learning this Hotel California solo, you know, note for note, bend for bend. I couldn't play it now because the hard drive only has so much space. But that was like, not drinking.

I'm not going to drink on this cruise. You know, I'm going to be sober on this. This is like, could be a super defining moment. And, oh, yeah, that's it. Is it? Yeah, that's not with Cory Glover, but that's the Stoweways. Awesome. That's rad.

Playing Manson. Yeah. I got worn in the same shirt. Oh, yeah. Baby's super. So these guys, Ben Eller and Andy Wood on guitar on guitar, and, well, Ben's playing bass. He's the guy who just filled in for Mass. it on.

Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. How the lights go out. At 9. It's 9 p.m. But he's an incredible guitar player, dude. He didn't play anything.

I did a gig with, uh, it's called Hale. It's like a kind of all-star cover thing. Uh, it was me and James Lemanzo, Chris Adler, and Zett singing. And we did Tornado of Souls. And he broke down the tornado of Soul solo on this little tutorial. And that saved me. So I was able to like, learn. That solo.

That's a great song. I don't know if I could play it. You edit it out if I do shitty? Of course. I don't even know. Something like. Uh, see, that's fucking sort of. I don't like that.

Forgot it. That's fucking hard, right? It looks insane. It's fucking hard. Like picking it up off the cussain. tough. Marty Friedman. He's not real.

He's a freaking. He's a freaking freak. Yeah. Yeah, playing Manson probably is a little bit easier, right? Yeah, that was easy. It's a little bit easier. Totally easy. So you're obviously a big Kiss fan.

You were in the Kiss Army from what I... I don't remember if I ever actually joined the Kiss Army. I had a... We had a swimming. pool with the house. Yeah. And underneath it, underneath the deck was our fort.

You know, I made a fort under there. Yeah. And we called it to Kiss Army. Like, you know, that was our spot where we, yeah, we,

I would rip off. That's what we took. We had it. And I would rip off. Five bucks a year. That's insane. That's good. Wow.

I don't know if this was actually real. I would, I would steal poromags from the 7-Eleven down the street from my house. Fuck, yeah, you did, And we take them there

And we have them in there And I'd like stealing cigarettes And we'd like smoke cigarettes Yeah I don't think we were like 12, 10 or 11 or something super young Like fucking smoking sticks at 12 11 Already stealing porn on mags

I was bad I was bad ripping off shit You You You On the car that, yeah. How do you, how do you still a freaking car? In Dublin, I mean, it's a nice suburban town in the 70s and late 70s.

Yeah, early 80s, early 80s. People leave their keys in the car. You know, the windows are down. And they just, so we would just go out looking for, oh, here's one, you know, hop on. You go out looking for the cars. Oh, yeah. So we had. With the brand new porno mag.

We had, we had, there was an El Camino that I would, I was a friend. freshman and it was an El Camino and the guy let this and I was driving it to school as a freshman yeah and I was 14 15 years old and picking out my buddies and they're in the back you know because it's the no seatbelt law at this point and um no see but law yeah yeah kind of like that it was like the one in the middle that one yeah yeah yeah there it is yeah that was the year that was the year and uh it had the registration on the visor you know and he lived a block or two over from the school. So we would go by his house and we had open his garage door with a garage door open and

fucking take off. Fucking fearless. Yeah. And then, yeah, we had the, we had heaven and hell and the, listening to that.

I told Dio that too. He told him? Yeah. Well, he still listened to that record in the stolen car. And then he proceeded to tell me. He's still cars as well. His,

yeah, his story is about being the getaway driver. Oh. for people with an off stores and stuff. He was the getaway drivers. How old were you? I was 14, 15, 14, 15. Still an El Camino. Yeah.

We took a Nova. The guy down the street from me had a Jeep that had a bunch of beer in it. Had a fucking 357 Magnum in it too. And we were cranking the first Motley crew record. And cruising by the drive-in in the Jeep Cherokee. And they found it because we ditch them somewhere on some side street. Actually good. Then what's at the end game?

Do you ditch it somewhere? Do you bring it back? We ditch it and then we'd use it again. But they found it, but I stole it the key, so we stole it again. We went back to the kid. The El Camino, I parked at the end of my block because I was taking it at school. And I didn't want to walk a bunch before school. And one of my neighbors saw me and told my dad and my dad ex-cop.

So he took it and called from a pay phone and said, hey, son stole a car. It's located here, you know, from a pay phone. This was the early 80s, so they weren't tracing anything then. So, yeah. Don't let your mom know. That's kind of lucky. Yeah, it was lucky.

I need to steal his car and go to Gemmo. Yeah, man. Jimco, yeah. And give my first guitar. I was playing guitar by then. Really? I was playing guitar. I was in a band yet.

My first band was called On Parole. and it was we almost were on on parole yeah almost and it was the guys that jammed with me and the americans are the guys that i jammed with in high school yeah same dudes playing the same some of the same deaf leopard and fucking covers we did back then jesus priest and straight up stole cars i do i couldn't do that yeah that's a different time it is it's a different time i uh yeah it was bad i was bad i was bad I would steal a bunch of shit when I was young, bike parts, music, you know, Floyd Roses, and, you know, if it wasn't, I was, I was taking. It was fucking bad.

And I think I stopped when I got in construction and on job sites. I had some tools stolen. And I'm like, hey, man. Karma came back. That don't feel good. Wow. This sucks. Wow.

So I think that I just kind of. that's when I was just like, hey, it's the juju got, you know, it's bad juju, it's not good. How old are you when you got the tools stolen? I think I might have been, I started maybe 19 or 20. It's a good run.

Yeah, it was a good run. I got lucky. Almost a decade. I got lucky, man. Didn't get, you know, it was good. That was good. That is, lucky. What was like the crime rate back then?

It wasn't. It wasn't, no. not in Dublin. And Dublin is, you know, pretty... I think we had a murder and, you know, in the... Maybe there was a couple back then. But I don't know.

It's... Oh, you're checking out of crime, right? If you fucking, this is awesome. I was curious. Because you're able to freaking steal cars, dude. During the 80s. There was a... There was a...

One of the Netflix... There was a special, and it was the one that happened up in Richmond. I guess you're not from there, so you don't know. where the girl found she came to SoCal and she was kidnapped by this guy and

and they let her go and I don't know but the Dublin cops found her I forget what that one was called no that's no The murder of horror Yeah McKellickickickickick fucking Eileen Mish it off that was sad missing

Her parents were still looking for her man That's fucking sad Oh that sucks dude Yeah Looks like we can't find much. No, there's not a lot. So I guess that, I mean, that's a good sign. My buddy, uh, it's good sign. We can't leave much. One of my best friends, Brian Snyder, his, uh, his dad was the first mayor. He just passed away too, Pete. God bless you. But, uh, yeah, he's the first mayor, so the mayor's son.

A good run. It's a great town, dude. I'm never leaving. Born, raise is still there. Never leaving, man. Dude, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to stay in the same fucking town. You're trying to stay there. I love it, dude. It's cool. That is. That is. It is. It's awesome. And yeah, because you're born there. I love it here. Yeah. How do we figure it out?

I bought my parents' house in 2004, 2003, 2004. And so they had the tax laws. I got grandfathered in on this Proposition 13, so my property taxes are super low. Because it's, yeah, I got grandfathered in. So it's like, it's going to cost me a bunch of just to go somewhere. Plus, I love where we're at. I made our house into the, I've redone every room and the backyard. In COVID, when the shelter in place went down, they closed our bar.

And so I stopped drinking. I stopped drinking. I said, well, we're shut down. I'm not going to, you know, I started, and this is probably three, it was 19, right? Yeah, 2020. Was it 20 when everything shut down? Yeah. Okay.

March, uh, 2020. Yeah. So I started digging out my backyard. I had a retaining wall that I took out. We had, I ended up moving 90, about 96 cubic yards of concrete and dirt by hand. Demolition hammer, breaking it up, but shoveling it, putting it in, lifting up the wheelbarrow. You are the name. I just.

You are your name. I will, you know. You are your name. There's crazy. There's, you know, the, the mouth that it was and you see piece by piece. And we, I had, I got through this section that was at this, there's a redwood stump down. And it was just this myriad fucking labyrinth of roots that I had to just chainsaw through and get through. It was just, it was therapy for me.

It was therapy breaking. up all this concrete and old footings and digging through these tree roots and building this fence. I built a 10 foot high retaining wall and with a fence on top of it too. So I'm knocking down a section and digging it out and then I'm digging the fucking holes and I'm pouring the posts and I'm picking up the lumber and fucking pretty much by myself, you know, and that was my, that was my quarantine, was building that wall and I built a fucking wall bro.

Well now it's a protection wall probably now. Yeah. Yeah. But it must be so like just reward when you still look out

like I made that my bare hand. Yeah. It was, you know, I sat, I think Marta had grabbed the picture of it, but I sat in the final corner

when it was down and I just fucking bawled my eyes out and just fucking let it all go at that point and just, you know, it felt really

fucking accomplished, you know. And moved fucking, I moved a mountain, bro. Yeah. And some nights it was like, you're doing a section, you're doing a section, and you just fucking, you step outside of yourself, and you just let it all just kind of flow through you and purge out whatever you're feeling at the time.

And I don't really know entirely what I was, you know, trying to let go of at that time. but it was every swing of that fucking hammer, every, you know, throwing these big metal bars and breaking up concrete by hand, you know. And Marta, too, she was out there doing some shit too. She's, like, built this beautiful garden in our backyard, and she's done the same thing.

You know, it's really built this insane and cool spot for our family. Really lucky, man. That's awesome. So you didn't know what you're doing. you were trying to let go up with just something at that point i probably yeah i did i had a lot of i had a i had a i had a lot of stuff i still needed to work out with you know leaving machine yeah and you know it's unfortunately it took me a while to get to a point of being and i man i I have such a strong and inherent need for justice.

And vigilante justice sometimes, you know? It's like that I have a hard time letting go of stuff. And with that, it took me, you know, and wrong or right? And my thoughts, looking back, you know, it's, you know, I'm responsible for a lot of my own feelings in that sense. and it took me a bit, but, you know, I initially got there and I'm, you know,

moved on, not carrying anything and, you know, feel good about everything. Very healthy. Yeah, it's, it's been good to find I come to a spot. Not easy. No. You know, it's, it's not. And it's, you know, in hindsight,

and when I got to the spot, it's just like, dude, this is, mostly you're doing, you know, of, you know, this is on me talking to myself. This is, this is, you've done this to yourself

and you need to, you know, forgive yourself, but also move on. And once I was able to do that and, you know, I mean, I haven't been, and, and everything, I wasn't, you know,

I can't say I was treated horribly or it was just time to move on in that sense. And, you know, and I don't even know where I'm going with this. But I think forgiving myself for and owning what I did wrong in that situation allowed me to, you know, to move on from it. Move on and actually let go.

Let it go. Yeah, yeah. I don't let people even get there. Yeah. They just hold on to whatever. Yeah. Yeah. They just, I did for a long time.

Poison. I did. And it was really bad. It was really bad. It was poisoning for your fucking flesh, man. Yeah. And it was, you know, poisoning myself. You're poisoning yourself.

That's what people don't realize, man. You poison yourself. Yeah. And it manifests in different ways. Yeah. Arguments with your wife or something. Who know? Yeah, something.

Bad energy. Yeah, you can fucking just carrying it, dude. Yeah. It feels like you're carrying like something. Yeah. Congrats, man. It's a big deal. Yeah.

That's awesome. It's good to not feel. that anymore and that's like I feel healthier you know that probably a lot better to be around yeah you let go and you're naturally just more

positive uh huh for sure that's a big takeaway you are poisoning yourself save you Phil yeah thank you for that it's really cool to see you talk about different areas of different areas of your life

and you look good like you look like you process things healthy and thanks man awesome man yeah yeah yeah not not let people get there getting old man I gotta you know gotta be around to see my kids graduate high school yeah got a four year old at home

needs his dad around and I'm healthy for the most part you know my labs are good everything's good got a few aches and pains here went through a vertigo thing for a minute you know and and uh had my crystals reset you know and had a boy had a boy So it's a big deal. But for the most part, it's just, if I could just, you know, the boozes, you know,

I don't want to say it's easy for me to not drink, but it's kind of easy for me to just not drink. It's hard for me to not drink fucking cherry Coke. Oh, yeah. That's hard. Yeah. It's hard for me to not eat shitty, convenient food. Yeah. That's difficult for me.

So if I could do that, then, you know, the midsection can go away a little bit. You know, get back into a... That's a daily struggle. The medium shirt. No, I'll never be a medium. But you know what I'm saying? Some things you've got to truly accept. Those tastes, I'm okay being a large right now.

I'm going to ask you, did you, did you figure out your heart condition? Yeah, I mean, it's basal-vagal. It's a vasal-vagel syndrome or something like that. It's your vasal-vagal nerve is on your heart. and if it's not operating functioning correctly, it can make you pass out. So it's phasel vagal syncope. S-Y-N.

Yeah, there you go. There it is. Does that say anything about stress? Yeah, because you're probably going through a stressful time. There you go. Yeah, because we were here, I'm like, do what's wrong with Bill, man?

Yeah. And no one knew what the hell is going on. Everyone just assumed that, oh, he's this dehydrated. Yeah. But there's an actual... No, that's what was happening. And it was, you know, it happened like over the, you know, before and like in the 90s, happened a few times and it's kind of weird.

It happened on stage. And it was during, you know, a song about death and dealing with death. And I'd think. of it to my dad was at home and declining. He was on dialysis and stuff like that. And it happened on stage during the song. And we got nominated for a Grammy and I called home to, hey, your parents of a Grammy nominee, you know, whatever. And I didn't hear back.

And then the next morning, my sister called me. I was like, call home, you know, and my dad had passed away. And so Dave McLean was like, when did this happen what time or whatever and I was like we've got a show we're playing in Zurich and I said put the pieces together

and it's like oh it's nine hours before dialysis he got out of dialysis went to his car and just put the keys on the dashboard and just fell you know just died in the parking lot and so we put the time together

and it was when I was you know when I passed out Yeah, it's pretty It was pretty It was pretty fucking Pretty amazing You know It was like

To get that final goodbye But that was When it happened And so then I had A couple other episodes It was weird Because it was happening on stage And

And not on stage But you know A lot of stress going on And loss of my dad Going through Uh Going through a custody battle With my 19 year old son

That was it was pretty gnarly so it was you know caught up a lot going on and uh it hasn't happened in a bit you know so it's like because you talked earlier you're running 15 miles yeah well i have the one time but i can it's great yeah but it's it's not you know i'm on backyard and you feel good oh there's magnus yeah and and things are good things are good you know health-wise it's it's it's good, man. The heart rates, it's always been low, but you know, it's

I'm good healthy. You know, I've got a young wife. Gotta be around. Yeah. Well, Phil, you got a lot more years in you. Yeah. A lot more. Right on, man. And maybe I might be there when you have your next drink. Yeah.

We'll see. I'm not scared. I'm not gonna, I'm not like. I'm not scared. Do you have a good circle of, like, supportive friends? I do, man. Good. You know, this, we started having these Taco Tuesdays with our neighbors and our friends.

And it just, you know, having friends over for tacos. It's like a midweek get together with your friends. Oh, cool. And it turned into, you know, we're holding these, we're holding these charity things, the Merkin shows. And I have to rent out a hall, so I got a charge of missing. But we don't want to make any money. So we give it to a charity. And so we came up with our own nonprofit, which is this Taco Tuesday gives back.

And so we are, we've got a nonprofit going, you know. So we're, and now holding these things, we'll get a, you know, 25, 30 grand a year, you know, at our Christmas shows to give to, it's usually a local needy person. Oh, that is rad, man. And, yeah, it's great, man. The shows are, we hold them at the community center. We'll do, like the summer show we'll do at the bar. But then the Christmas show we hold at the community center, like two blocks from my house. It's at a park and it holds like 300 people.

And that's when we get, we pull in the big guests. And it's self-funded. If you could ever come up, you'd have the best time. Yeah, it sounds like fun. It's super fun. And the community is really, really just all good people. You know, it's just such a positive vibe. You ask anybody, Wayne from Hate from, Hedbreed jams with us.

Nice. And, you know, it's just this whole group of just awesome people, just, you know, playing cover tunes and just barbecuing. drinking and hanging out. Nice. I do have a great, a great circle, man. It takes a village, and I love my village. Yeah, man.

You got to have a solid, you know, circle. Uh-huh, for sure. Will you have any closing thoughts, man? No, dude. It's, thanks for having me on. I'm really, uh. Thank you, man, for, for chilling. Yeah, yeah.

It was cool. And Griffin, too. Yeah, yeah. Being down here and admiring your quad and Quad bros, dude Quad bros. Thanks for having me, dude. It's really cool what you've got going on

and, you know, it's stoked to be here, man. Thank you. Category 7 and I had the whiskey, right? Yeah, yeah, so I was going to say, where do you want people to go? Where people find you and the band? The band, like online? Where do we go?

At Category 7, the Carrie King Band, you know, at Carrie King and at the back lounge, the bar in Dublin. If you're ever up in Dublin, come by the bar. Sign our drums for us.

Nice. We'll get you up there. I'll be there. Yes. I'll be there drinking, though. Yeah. Well, I might be right next to you. I'll be fucking chugging and drinking, dude.

All good. Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate you. All right, man. All right, everyone. That's it. Later.