Garza Podcast - 221 - ZAKK WYLDE: Ozzy, Black Label Society, Pantera & Legacy

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

Garza sits down in-person with Zakk Wylde. Vocalist & guitar player of heavy metal band BLACK LABEL SOCIETY. Also best known for his time in Ozzy & currently Pantera. New album “Engines of Demolition” out March 27th! https://instagram.com/zakkwyldeblsSPONSORS: https://neuraldsp.com USE CODE: Garza for 30% OFF!00:00 - Zakk Meeting His Wife09:25 - Nothing is Hard13:10 - Inspiration15:41 - Remembering Dime & Vinnie19:08 - Getting Punched By Ozzy25:03 - Practicing vs Playing Guitar27:11 - Pinch Harmonics & Billy Gibbons28:33 - Riff: Miracle Man32:36 - Engines of Demolition35:27 - Quitting Drinking40:51 - Riff: Stillborn42:30 - Riff: Bridge to Cross47:29 - Wylde Audio & Guitars53:10 - EMG Pickups55:08 - Teaching, Learning Guitar & Scales59:39 - Guitar Woods1:03:36 - Zakk’s Health Scare1:09:43 - Learning/Playing Pantera Songs1:12:26 - First Pantera Show1:16:25 - Pressure of Playing for Pantera1:19:32 - Riff: Machine Gun Man1:20:34 - New Jersey1:22:12 - Top 4 Bands to Check Outhttps://patreon.com/garzapodcast questions by: Adam Conneely & cliff sharp

What is up, everybody? This episode with Zach Wild and the clean toning here throughout this whole conversation wouldn't be possible without Neural DSP. If you're having trouble finding the right guitar tone for you, Neural DSP has the best plugins on the planet. I use your plugins here jamming with guests. When I'm writing, my live tone, basically everything guitar tone related, I use them. Want more? Check it out at Neuraldsp.com and use promo code Garza to get 30% off. That's neuraldsp.com. promo code Garza for 30% off their sick plug-ins, excluding John Mayer. Link and description below.

And now let's get to the podcast with Zach Wild. Very good. Very good. Better? Yeah. Rockin. Intro riff? Hot rocking, my brother.

Hi, rocking, dude. So do you always play with the clean tone? Yeah, it's nice. I mean, I mean, with the distortion on, too. But I mean, for this, is fine. Nice. Zach Wilde,

thank you for being here. Thank you for your time. Thank you for being here. We got to make it snappy. I got to get to my nail appointment and I got to shave my legs as well. You're shaving your legs, dude? Yes, because I wear the kilt of getting now.

You know what I mean? Oh, shit. Yes. And now with the Zach Sabbath and black label doing two days, I have to shave my legs twice and get ready for my Diana Ross costume changes.

See, there it is. There it is. Beautiful, man. Exactly. That's what I tell the mortal beloved. That's your Irish and German coming out. Yes. And Scottish.

Scottish too. Yes. Oh, do, uh, do, uh, I, what's that, brother? So do people that wear, is that like a thing? You wear a cute. You have to shave your legs. Is that like a part of the deal? I shave my legs and I just shave full body just in case, uh, nice.

Just in case, you know, you get attacked by a bear. Yeah. He has nothing to grab on to. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. He can't, yes. He can't grab any fur off.

You know, like Bruce Lee, when he gets. grabbed Chuck Norris' his fur off his chest, you know, and when they were at the final scene when they were fighting in the Coliseum, you don't want that to happen. No. No advantage.

I wonder, so. Exactly. The famous scene with Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee. This is. At the Coliseum. Yes, here it comes. Okay, so this. There it is.

You don't want, see? Oh, I never, see. Ow. Ow! Say? You see? You can't do that with Bruce. See?

there you got you don't want that to happen no well i mean i mean you don't want that on your legs yes you know exactly because that could hurt as well you know yeah how did people do that you do the what is you know when you're the love dojo with the immortal beloved with the wife yeah you know you know you don't want to give her any advantage yeah you know but they but uh but they but they were best friends though right that's a that's a secret to being with the same woman for 87 years Dude, how long have you been married? 122 years. Okay, cool.

But dated for 87. Yes. It's pretty brutal. It's been rough. That's the reason why you learn techniques such as that. Yes. Wasn't one of your first dates? It was Urban Cowboy.

Yes. Right? And was it your first date or one of your first dates? No, it was we went to go see Urban Cowboy. There it is. With John Travolta. Came out in 1980. Yes.

And we went in, and it was a Friday night, and Barbara Ann would not allow me to get to First base, second base, I guess. Yes. And she just cut me off, threw me out a second, and did not allow any access. And so I broke up with her by Monday, yes, and dropped her like a bad habit, like a hot potato. Dude, that's so bad. But after 122 years of marriage now, and four children later, I have gotten to second base.

Yes. Congratulations, man. Yes, thank you. Thank you. So through persistence, you know, 87 years of persistence, I did get the second base. Did you, did you, does she still bring it up? Hey, did you remember when you broke up with me? Well, wait, the crazy thing is when we just did, we were playing with Pantera celebration,

and open it for Metallica over at Sofey Stadium. John Travolta was there. No. Yes. He came down with Tommy Lee and the rest of the guys. Oh, dude. Get out of here. And Nicky, I think, was there.

The guys in Motley. So, but anyways, I saw the guys backstage of me and Barbara Am, we ended up saying hi to John Travolta because he was talking with everybody. Did you tell him? We forgot after we got done. Oh, no. I didn't even think about it, you know, because he's just, you know, like these people were a part of your childhood,

you know what I mean? Between Welcome Back Carter and all the movie. Greece and every other cyanide fever and everything else he's been in and urban cowboy. Yeah. But I forgot to tell him that we actually... Oh, dude. That was our first date was urban, was with John Gibraltar. But yeah, pretty hilarious now.

But not, we didn't think about it until like afterwards. We were going, oh, my God, we forgot to mention it. Yeah. Didn't tell him. And then, so you were like, okay, I'm an asshole. I don't want to fuck this up. I should, we should be together, we should go back out. Well, that was in a senior year high school.

So Barbara, she'd moved on. So she was dating another guy. Okay. This guy, Rick Keller. And I would call her her, uh, love dojo, uh, sensei or training partner. Uh, until, you know, until we hooked up into the black label, Love Dojo, senior year or high school. Senior year. Yes.

Okay. That's when we had the band and everything. that but you know Rick would always go hey Barham you know Zach's got this band you know I mean like you know because we had our cover band we'll be playing keg parties or whatever you know Yeah our kitchens our buddies kitchens backyard keg parties basement keg parties like a keg party in here but uh it's like oh yeah Zach's got a band and she's like screw that guy he's a tool bag you know what I mean said yes yes but now I now I just have to drag her to black label gigs or Pantera celebration or an Ozzy.

gig back with the boss or now Zach Sabbath. So yes, he still doesn't want to go to any of the shows that I play in, but we drag her to the show. Congratulations, man. What are some, uh, let's do, to close off the marriage talk, uh, because it's very rare for people to stay together for so, so long. I mean, she's seen you through every stage of your life. Like what, what was it that kind of kept you guys together?

Well, I mean, I used to drink and now she drinks. So that's the balancing act right there. So, yeah, so. I think that's called karma, Zach. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, it is. No, but, you know, it kind of balances out because I sniff glue and he paint chips. So, you know, it kind of balances out.

Okay. And the results are astounding to same. I wake up in the morning with my pants around my ankles. And the front was like, bro, you were hilarious last night. Oh, my goodness. Thank the good Lord, nobody got hurt. Yeah. But, no, it's just,

but I always tell everybody, they go, well, what's the, what's the secret? I go, there is no secret. You either like your situation or you don't. You know what I mean? Because for so long, I mean, that kind of transcends love. I mean, you're kind of committed. You got different situations.

I mean, you're like, are you just comfortable in your situation? You know what I mean? You just kind of don't feel like, or you actually dig your situation, you know what I mean? So, you know, like any of your friends, you enjoy being around them. I mean, at the end of the day, whoever it is in your life, if they don't bring you peace, then they've got to go. 100%.

That's that. Like, I got buddies I've known since we were kids. Like, when we catch up, it's just like we pick up right where we left off. and I always look forward to to talking to them or seeing them. And if you don't have that, then what do you have this person in your life for? Just get rid of them. So after so many years, like, you still look forward to seeing your woman.

Yeah, it's very simple. You know, if you're getting a lot of this, I don't even argue, you just get up and you leave. You don't even, you know, where are you going? I don't need to tell you where I'm going. I'm just getting away from you. You don't even need to say that. Just get up and leave and then never to be seen from again. Wow. Yeah, that's where you do.

After so many years, I've been with my chick for six years. And still, I still look forward to seeing her. Yeah. I look forward to. Yeah, totally. I can't. But it's the truth. I mean, you don't, it's easy.

Mm-hmm. It should be easy. I mean, you know, it's just, because when somebody says, oh, you know, it's hard, you know, it's hard. You know, I go, no, it's not. It's not hard, though. No, it isn't hard. It's. The only thing, nothing's hard.

If you're going to make it hard, then it's going to be hard. If you're going to make a big deal out of something, there's going to be a big deal. You know what I mean? But if it's not, you know, like any of my friends are like, Zach, I just stopped drinking. I go, you just stop. I go, well, what did you do? Nothing. You just stop.

You just go, that was Tuesday. Today's Wednesday. Now we're over here. But if you're going to make a big deal about it, then it's going to be a big deal. You know what I mean? So it's just like playing in the Super Bowl. you know, we're going to make a big deal about it or whatever, or the world championship or whatever.

No, you just do it. Just play like it's a preseason. Like you weren't nervous then. Just play like it's another game. You know what I mean? What got you here? You know what I mean? So, yeah.

Here's a great analogy. I remember we were talking with Ted Williams when he actually hit, you know, when he hit 400. You know what I mean? What they were like, there you go. and it was just like and it was at the last game of the season

and everything like that and he said the umpire just looked at me and he goes if you're going to bat 400 you just got to relax you know like you got to because if you're otherwise you're going to you'll have the weight of the world on your shoulders

and you're going to panic and then you just got to act like it's another at bat and he got the hit and he retained the record wow that's because he's got balls of steep That's why. But he was just relaxed.

He was just nice and calm. Just relax. It was just another at bat. This is another just game. I got to hit it. I got hit it. No, no. Don't think like that.

But that's when your mind starts freaking out. Exactly. Just got to go up there nice and calm. Even Michael Swayhorn said, you know, when, that's Jason's Dayhorn. He, um, they were talking about when the Giants played in his next Super Bowl after they got beat by the Ravens. when they played against Captain America

when they played against the Patriots he goes we just went we were so amped up and just thinking we got to do more than what we got to do because we were in the Super Bowl and he goes the next time we came around we were just all relaxed

and it made a world of difference wow yeah it's just got to be relaxed man do what you did that got you to the game in the first place yeah me and my lady always talk about this like we still have treat her like the first date still

flirting, treat her. It's like, do what you did to get you that got you there. And then once you're there, you don't, you didn't stop. You just keep, that's, that's what, that's with being a band. That's with, that's with guitar playing.

Keep doing what you. I agree. If you're going to, if you're going to put that weighted stress on you, it's just, it's not good. Yeah. And you just, why, why, why would you do that to yourself?

Well, I mean, you seem to be really, you seem to find a way to, manage to stress well. No, it's the truth, though. Just get up there and play, I think, you know, whether you're playing at a festival in front of 100,000 people

or you're playing at the Viper room, just get up there and do what you do. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. I think if you ask most musicians, that's what you get. Yeah. You know, it's not like,

oh, tonight's a big show. It's just like they're all big shows. Yeah, they're all big shows. Yeah. Yeah, because you're going to get up there and throw down, you're going to do the best you can do when you get up there anyways. Every time.

Yeah, you're going to go balls to the wall just like you did last night when you were playing the Biper Room. Now you're playing SoFi Stadium. Just get up there and do what you did last night. You know what I mean? We were playing in front of 30 people. You know what I mean?

You're still going to go all out. All out. Yeah, exactly. Hey, Zach, I found a quote that hit me. You know when you have a thought or a feeling but someone else says it, they put it into words? Oh, that's what I feel.

That's what I think. Yeah. I found something that, that you, you said, I really want you to elaborate on it, please. Lay it on me. Sorry, man. Your, and this is in regards to guitar playing, okay? Your hands aren't yours anymore.

Your job is to make people happy and to get through, and to get through hard times. All the great artists, they gave it to me. They taught me. Yeah, well, I think so too. I mean, you know, I think, you know, all of us, we inspire each other and everything like that, which is a beautiful thing. I mean, it's just like, because if you ask Randy Rhodes, you know, you'd be like, Randy, man, you inspired me. It's just like what inspired Randy was Mick Ronson, Leslie West, and all the guys.

You know, then you find out about those guys. And then you ask Leslie West and Mick Ronson who inspired them. And you go further back, I'm just saying. Just keep going back back back. And then you just, then you pass it on. And then, you know, so for some kid that that's inspired by dime bag, it's like, man, dime's the reason why I picked up the guitar. And it's just like dime would fire dime up was Randy, Eddie, Tony Iommi, Jimmy Page.

You know, and then you look at all the guys that inspired dime. And then, you know, all the way down to like Jimmy Page, if Jimmy Page inspired you. And Jimmy would say, oh, man, I heard Elvis and I was like, I got to be a part of this. You know what I mean? So Scotty Moore and all those, Chuck Berry and all the guys that were inspirational with Jimmy Page. And it just carries forward, just that torch of inspiration. And you just hand it on. Which is a beautiful thing, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, that's what life's all about, man. So that's what they taught you. It seems like you learned through them to be a channel. Yeah, without a doubt. I think with all musicians or, you know, it could be teachers you have when you were a kid, coaches, you know, football coaches or anything like that that I had, baseball coaches, I remember a lot of things they said then,

and it just still carries on as you get older. You know what I mean? Just like you always carry those things. But it's just like, yeah. But I think that's, without a doubt, that's what life's all about, man. Well, I want to take an opportunity. We have a, Zach, we have a Patreon. and they

I said you're coming in and they want to ask you questions. Go ahead. So we got. We got one. Fire away, my brother. And Zach, again, thank you for doing the podcast and let's get ready for the

roller coaster of memories and emotions. You got it. Let's do this. This is from Adam Kenele. Dynbag was more than a guitar legend. He was an inspiration to so many. metal. He is still relevant even today. When you think of him now, what moment or lesson from him

still hits you in the heart and has shaped not just your plane, but who you are as a person? Thank you, Adam. I think if you met anybody that met St. I'm over there, just his personality. If he walks into a room, you just couldn't feel his, energy when he walked in a room just as positive dominating life force so no

just I mean hilarious in that how infectious just his personality if you were having the worst day if Don walked in a room he did he'd brighten up your day but

he'd have like people drinking that he didn't know they were sober or they hadn't had a drinking like 10 years. No, and he'd be like, come on, have a, he had no idea. He just figured being the host of hosts. Yeah. Time would have people.

I remember that photo right there. Right there, you have me and dime drinking all night. You look good. I was on, no, I was on. You look like shit, actually. Double duty with the kids early that day. So I was out cold, man. I was fading up to that point before that photo was ever taken.

I was ready to pass out. I didn't have any sleep with the kids or anything like that. but that was hilarious. But that's, it would always be, it would always end up like that. It was always good times with the dime. But, yeah, just he, just, you know, I always tell everybody, if you want to honor dime or you want to honor dime,

Diamond Vinny, just how precious life is. You could either be happy or you could be miserable. And Diamond Vinny would always be like, this is an easy choice. So it'd be like, let's round up the fellas and fire up a barbecue and have a good time. That's it. Just every day you should is a gift and just a blessing and just kick as much ass as you can while you're here and be happy, man.

It's really the truth. And if you get bummed out or whatever, write a song about it. There you go. Everything just plow through walls and just dominate and concentrate and constantly. mountains and then just take a breather and take a nap and then conquer another one. That's what it's all about. What about what? But be like the dime bag and be, just be good people.

That's all. Like Ozzy always said, you know what God is, Zach? What's that, Oz? He goes, add another, oh, it means be good. There you go. In a nutshell, just sweet and simple. Did he really poke you in eyes? Yes, he poked me right in the eyes and they have that punched me in the mouth.

What did you do? Now, I went a little heavy on the Coleman's mustard on his ham sandwich. How many ham sandwiches have you made? And I never did that again. I never did that again. I always went lighter on the Coleman's. And so you never wanted to overpower the flavor of a delicious sandwich of the rye and the ham. How many ham sandwiches have?

There is the Coleman's. It's a delicious mustard. But yet a very powerful mustard. Yeah. And, you know, with just like with Spider-Man. with great power comes great responsibility. And with such taste devastation comes great response. You can't overpower.

Don't use too much of it. Monster, it's really important. Know how to cradle that power, that flavor, that taste devastation. See, that was the sandwich I'd be making for Oz when I first auditioned for the band all the way up until no more tours too. The Coleman's. Ham sandwich, Coleman's, mustard. And after you got poked in the eyes by the boss

and they socked me in a jaw, I never went too heavy on the Colvins again. And you were 19, correct? What's that, buddy? You were 19, correct? Yes, right? I was 19, right before I turned 20 when I first started with the band.

Oh, my goodness. And Heady even looks, you made a auditioning tape, which he didn't even watch, correct? He saw a photo. He saw a picture of me on the kitchen counter, and he was like,

oh, look at this little kid. He must love Randy Rhodes, which I do, and still do to this day, and always will. But yeah, but that's when I came into an auditioning. He goes, where have I seen you before? And I was just like,

unless you saw us at the garden, when we saw you with Bernie Tourmet, and well you saw me with me and my buddies under the mezzadine when you were at Brendan Byrne Arena with Motley Crew and wasted Pete Way. But it was an amazing gig. But yeah, unless you saw us at that, no, we have never met before. So, you know, because I mean at that point, you know, when you see all your favorite bands, they're like magical mystical heroes, they just appear on stage and then they poof into thin air. Gone.

Yeah, they're gone. You never see him again. So you open up like Hit Parade or magazine and you see him again. But, uh, you join a, I mean, I've heard you say this. You join a band with your favorite singer. There's only a, not, I don't know anyone that could say that, Zach, that's on this planet. No, it's, uh, no, pretty, I thank the good Lord every day, without a doubt. And I thank the good Lord every day, as you could see me in these photos.

as well as I was a blossoming young Hollywood starlet at that point right there. Yes, look at me there. Look at me there. But when we played Wormwood Scrubs Prison, my first show with Ozzie, I was just like, I hope I passed the audition because this is the closest thing to Pamela Anderson

from Tooltime Girl that these fellas are going to be seeing in a long time. So, thank goodness I got out of Wormwood Scrubs Prison. Oh, man. there it is right there my first gig with the boss i thought i thought the first one was in pentacola that was actually the first you know arena show right with the boss yep so you're you're 19 going on 20 and you get and he also says play from the heart what do you think when because people tell that to you you know it play play from your heart what how did you how did you

especially being so young. No, it's just, well, I mean, Phil Susam was there. Phil was playing bass and Randy Castillo. God bless the soul. Randall was playing drunk. No, but Phil and Randy made me feel great. Feel, hey, Zach, what's going on? You know, like at ease.

So it was great. So, you know, I just jammed with Phil and that. I was like, what's on you? You know, they were like, what's all you want to do? I was like, whatever you guys want to bark at the moon, you know, I don't know, suicide solution, whatever, you know. So we just jammed a couple times. tunes and that was it.

You know, because they, they left it down to, like, Phil and Randy, so there wasn't, it was then, you know, you didn't have the internet. So, whereas, like, you know, now if you needed to find a guitar player or a singer or something, like, you know, you could Google up guys and cover bands and see who, you know, oh, this guy's great or whatever, you know, and then it's just a matter of meeting them. Did you see if you get on with them, you know, if they're guys cool or not or whatever, you can get on with them personality-wise, but, uh, but yeah, so, I mean, back then it was like a casting, you know, you'd have a, even when Mike Inez, when Mikey came down and we auditioned

Mike, it was like a bunch of guys as opposed to just going, now you would just make a phone call. You know, you'd go, Zach, attack, a quick text? We need a bass player's eye. I go, man, my buddy Mike would be great. You know what I mean? And he's super cool or whatever. And, you know, Mike Ines shows up for a gig or whatever, you know, with JD or whatever. You know, so yeah, because, you know, it's usually it's your friends, you know what I mean?

your circle of guy, who you know who the guys are. You know what I mean? That can do it and that are cool. Did you have like a good reputation? What's that buddy? Did you have like a good reputation or you just like, you just got your foot in the door? No, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, no,

I was working at a gas station at the time when I audition, you know what I mean? So, uh. What's gas station? No. Without a doubt, I'm saying like even when we, when Mikey came into the band, me and Randy will audition. I mean, as soon as Mike walked in, we knew. Mike, you know, and Mike kicked ass.

I threw down and we were just like, this is, this is, we got the guy. Mm-hmm. You know. And how long you've been playing guitar at that, at that point? I mean, I started getting serious when I was probably about 14. 14. 14. You know what I mean?

Five years. Yeah, but you're talking about practicing, you know, like, like playing video games. I mean, you get home at 3 o'clock or 2. 30 in the afternoon from school I'm I'm jamming all the way up until midnight you know I mean doing scales and running exercises and stuff like that but I mean so uh I think yeah I think if you ask most musicians it's all day man you know you're you're when you're all in you're all in it's like playing video games that's why I tell kids no one ever had to tell me to practice or I don't even consider a practicing you're just playing you know you don't practice video games

you're playing them. You know what I mean? It's true, huh? Yeah, same principle. You don't practice guitar, you're just playing guitar. Totally. It's the lovety instrument, man.

Hmm. I never heard someone say it. It's kind of like one of those, those, duh. Yeah. You're not practicing guitar. I mean, all my buddy's Derek Sherinian on the keyboards,

JD on the base, both of them are Berkeley guys, but I mean, no one ever tells you you have to practice. I mean, you just, because you love playing. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

Yeah, without a doubt. So you just, so you're, so you get home in Jersey, you just fucking two, two o'clock. Plain. Yeah, all day, boom. Once it was, yeah, total. There's Clancy, Father Derek over there. Oh, that, that keyboard's about to fall over.

Yeah. Yeah. Even Derek's out of control, too. It's nothing Derek can't play either, man. Wow. I wanted to ask you, uh, because so I'm, Zach, I'm involved in like the really heavy side. like really like metalcore hardcore stuff

even they like you've turned pinch harmonics into a language it's like it's like its own language I got that from how did you do that Joey Gibbons obviously you know so uh I mean he's the he's the godfather of the of the pinch harmonic

you know from uh Tush I mean LaGrange is actually the one you know Yeah. I mean, I remember my guitar to the legal. I was like, what is he doing? And it was like, I'm like, oh, okay. So, you know, and then, but, you know,

so it's just a matter of practicing over and over and over. But like in the studio, you know, we were doing Miracle Man or crazy babies and all that stuff, when you double track them and you do them with the, I was just doing it more on the low strings. And it was like, wow. You know, because that's when they just come to life. Yeah.

Especially when you're hearing it double track coming through his, It was like, oh, my God. What the hell, dude? Oh, yeah. It just sounded like amazing. So, uh, but, you know, that was my, uh, first memory of, you know, like, that, that was pretty amazing hearing it back, like hearing Miracle Man back. And, and that stuff like, uh.

That was like a monumental moment for you, right? Yeah, without a doubt. Dude, how was, I mean, I was thinking about this early today. Like, luck isn't the word. So you get the gig. The first song you're writing is Miracle Man. It's the first song on the record. And it's the, then you hear it on the radio.

Like, what's, I mean, what do you call that luck? Is that luck? That's it. Is it luck? Yep, totally. Did you bring in a riff? Did you have a riff? What did that first riff come?

It's purple. It's, it's Foxy Lady. Oh, I never. Just, you know, just made it. Oh, shit. I mean, that's why it was so good. Like, you know, the things that you learn, it's just like cooking. You know, you learn, they become ingredients.

Like, you know, you learn how other songs are written, and then you just, you're inspired or influenced by it, or you remember it. And then you tweak it and bend it. And, you know, it's just like, oh, man, this is kind of like a Sabbathy thing or is this like a Zeppelin-y kind of thing or deep purple or whatever, you know. And you, by the time you ended up writing something and you goes, yeah, Zach, I got the idea. idea from this riff from it could be a dime bag thing or something like that you know you go i remember dime did this one riff on a certain song i go i go wow i if you didn't tell me that i would you don't know i would have never i would have never got because you changed it around a bit but the spark of inspiration that that the that led you to where you ended up was a specific

song you know what i mean whether it's like you said whether there's dime bag or zeppelin or sabbath they're deep purple or you know you're right you you end up writing here Neil Young writing heart of gold you hear that on the radio you come in here you grab your acoustic guitar and you end up writing knocking on heaven's door or something I'm like I would have never and you never guessed I heard Neil Young and I ended up writing this song knocking on you know you wrote knocking on heaven's door I'm like wow I would have never got that if you didn't tell me but you're like no a spark of inspiration was this you know I'm like oh that's cool that's always the goal like you were just jamming something but you know where it came from but when you play it for

someone else and you kind of look at them and they don't yeah without that's that's that's always the goal but that's uh well even you know with sabbath i remember even ozie was right you got the end of you you know i mean it's just it's sunshine of your love but you know then but sabbitt took it from there and just you know change the pre-chorus the you know but they remain with down i you know something like that because you're just inspired by it but then you ended up mutating it bending it and changing it and it's a whole new song you know which is awesome what do you think that is it we're talking about channeling earlier is it do you think you're channeling something else are you just working and then it comes out you might even ask you know you could even ask you know

it would be like eric Clapton jack bruce and ginger baked going well we got the idea from that from a muddy waters thing you know what i mean yeah and then they they took it from there and it and theirs is completely different and then sabbath got it from them and then you know then Another band took it from there or whatever, you know what I mean? And it's just like, wow. You know, so it's just, once again, the spark of inspiration, whether it was muddy waters. And then all of a sudden it goes all the way through, like, five different bands

and five different songwriters where, you know, it's just like, and they all come out really cool, you know what I mean, or whatever. But you go, wow. I would have never got that. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's all good, man. What do you think Tony got her from? Where is, what do you think is his, the one,

and then the one before that, right? Yeah, exactly. I just think, I think everybody gets in, once again, it's the light of inspiration, you know, like we all inspire each other. So, and you just pass it on. It's great. Well, we've got to talk about it now because I don't want to forget.

So you got to, this comes out on a Monday. So you have a tour coming up in February. First show is on the 27th in San Antonio. So I just want people to you know. And this comes out the money before. I mean, our tour, actually, I think the dates got moved because I'm going over to England. Ozzie got the Brit Awards. They got a lifetime achievement award for Ozzy.

Oh, wow. So I'm going to be heading over there for that. But I think the tour starts on the third. Okay. I think all the Texas states, the first week of the tours are going to be put in the back end of the tour. Back end. Or somewhere. Okay, cool.

And we got the new record coming out on the tour. which is basically to help you remember your own record. The Black Rebel Society New Record, the Engines of Demolition. Like you said, we were talking about before. This is just in case, I forget what band I'm playing in this week or what wedding band I'm in. And so it's just like, oh, I'm in Black Label Society this week. So, yeah, that's what it is. Great, man.

Back Sabbath, Pantera celebration, obviously between with the boss and then Zach Sabbath and the black label. So, you know, you never know. Mm-hmm. Dude, that first song... Whatever wedding will be playing at or, you know, another keg party in somebody's basement, you know, this way you get prepared for the tour. Are you used to doing that, like, double-duty stuff?

I couldn't do it. Like, when you're talking, two plus hours? I mean, it's no big deal. I mean, I've only actually done one double-duty, like, show where you did the full show at, like, a matinee... Or earlier, like, at a 7 o'clock, 7 o'clock, 7 to 8, 30 and then you waited, you know, for 40 minutes, 45 minutes, then went back out there and did it again.

That was kind of brutal. And I mean, but like, you know, it was so funny, we were just over at, uh, and I guess, over in England where, we're Sabbath, like Regent Sound when they did their first album. Mm-hmm. But they had recorded that record. Oh, they recorded that album in like 12 hours and then went and did. a gig in Sweden that night. So they were in London.

They did the record and then went and did a gig that night which is insane. So that first Sabbath album you're hearing, they did that which was basically Ozzy. He was saying that was their set. You know, that was their set

of originals. So they just went in and recorded that left and then went and did a show that night which is insane. Totally. Jeez. man. How was it for you? Jack, how was it? What's the hardest part for you

writing music now as opposed to pre-2009? Like, is there anything hard about it? What's different about it? Or not drinking anymore? Yeah. Well, no, I think, you know, I mean, even though what we were drinking in the studio, like we were, while we were recording and tracking,

or writing. And we were never blasted. You know what I mean? It was just like... You're doing it during. Yeah, it was just like drinking coffee. We'd just be like nursing beers all day long. And it's just like you'd have a nice buzz on, a nice glow on.

But I mean... Yeah, but you weren't blasted. I mean, it wasn't until like maybe the end of the night. If we really started drinking and it was just like, instead of driving, it was just like, we just ended up sleeping on the couch. Because by the time I drive home and then we're going to go back, we'll be right back in the studio. So it was like, instead of being, if we were a little tipsy, I was like, I ain't driving anyway.

So it was just like, I was just sleep on the couch. So, but I mean, but otherwise it was just like, no, we were never. But, you know, the nights that we did get too hammering, you think you're writing something slamming. And you go, man, this is cool. You listen to it the next day. And you go, oh, my God, that's, that's awesome. That is like, quite possibly beyond horrendous. I mean, it's not even ungood.

That's beyond ungood. So, you know. I'm always like, what's like the line crossed? right? Do you not even know when the lines crossed when you're glowing? Yeah, you just keep getting blasted. I mean, you know, at that point, I mean, you just having a good time. But if you had some friends over at the studio and you wanted to play him, some of the new stuff. So yeah, yeah, you're having it, then it turns into a party and then it's just like, we're done for the night. We're, you know, forget about this. But, uh,

yeah, because I was, I was wondering about the process because I was listening to West Stillborn today. And I heard you talk about, you didn't have any riffs at all. You had, like, a few song ideas and you went in with nothing and you guys just started drinking. I was like, what's the... Yeah, I mean, I would just a lot of times, you know, you're going with nothing. I mean, because

think about it. You got even with like I mean, I understand the whole point of going in the studio with, you know, because you're going to be spending $1,000 a day in a studio. Just get let's be prepared for what, you know,

like you've got five songs you want to do. Let's just get in there and knock these out and get out. So everybody knows the song, so that I understand. But the perfect analogy is like when Black Sabbath was doing the second album, it was like, you know, I'm asking you guys, I'm like, boss, we need five minutes more to finish, complete the album. You got another song and you're like, Zach, I got nothing. I go, how about I go make a, I'll go get,

I'll make another pot of our holladjava and while I'm making... Just, you know, noodle around for a bit and come up with something. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then you end up right in paranoid, you know, and then, like,

Tony came up with the riff. Well, you know, we're going to go make a food run. I'll go get you guys some food. And then when I see what you can come up with. And then, like, Tony wrote the riff, and the music. Then Ozzy, you know, started singing. It was just like, you know, Bill came in.

Obviously, Bill listened and go, let me come in over here. and let me see what I want to play with it. And then Gieser came in and then it was like, Ozzy sang the melody. Geiser wrote the lyrics right there and it was like, all right, we got a song, which recorded.

And that was it, man. So like, so something has to be said with. Something that said about just doing it on spot. And this is one of their most famous songs. You know what I mean? I'm saying hit-wise, you know, as far as one of their commercial songs. So, you know, you start getting an idea for a song.

I'm not going to body. I'll just let you write. you know, because we don't, I'm not going to get in the way of that process. You know, you start writing. I'm going to, what's I'm going to do is just press record. You know what I mean? And the next thing you know, you come out with some slamming song. So, you know, but I understand both sides of the coin, you know what I mean?

Because you want to be, if we're, so we're not spending a lot of money, you want to get the stuff done, get in and out. Obviously, everybody's got to be ready. But, I mean, if you start writing knocking on heaven, door when you're in there or whatever. Yeah, I'm not going to bother you. You know what I mean? You just let people go. Yeah, without a doubt.

I haven't heard of any modern bands right now doing that. I wonder if someone, it's going to take someone just to dive in. I wonder if there's a way to do it now. You know, I'm interesting here. You know, I'm sure some bands got to go, yeah, that we didn't even, that song didn't exist until we got in the studio. You're like, you just started jamming on the riff. I'm like, what is that?

You're like, exactly, just something I started. I was just jamming about 20 minutes there. I go, that's good, you should record that. You know what I mean? And then you end up writing a song around it. So there you go. You know what I mean? And before we came in here today, a song didn't even exist.

You know what I mean? Until you just started thinking about it. Yeah, because I think a slight issue currently, I think it's like the kind of passes the line of a little bit too perfect. So I wonder, as someone has made me step back like a little bit. You go in and like just write a song there. and then it's Yeah

I mean Stillborn I mean that's how On this thing right here You know Okay I'm like What is he

It's like What is he doing there Mike It sounds It's Oh it's just You know Once again

It's all the pin It's harmonious Right Because Because I try to play it And I couldn't play it It's just harmonious Oh you're moving

Your right hand Yeah It's all Billy Gibbons Once again And that's it And there's your song Let's see where you can write around one note. Just less work for everybody.

Dude, I didn't, I was like, listening to him, like, I was doing like a, just a open. I was like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But I tried a harmonic, like, how was you doing that harmonic? You're just, but yeah, I didn't move the right hand. It's a stupid, I should have tried that. Sweet and simple. And that just flew out.

There you go. One note. Actually, what's in that thing? Three chords, I think. You got F-sharp, E minor, and D. Oh, wait. show you a B. There's a B in there for in the chorus. You got four chords.

Four chords. I'll give you four ingredients and see what you can come up with. There you go. A song that fucked me up today, man, was I was listening to Bridge the Cross. Oh, Bridge the Cross? Yeah. I was wondering, you know, just selfishly

I'm in a major turning point in my personal life and just that song came on. I was in the gym. I was like, You know when we hear a song, you start pressing like repeat? I dig it, man. I was like, oh, shit. It's like, huh?

So this is my selfish question. Going right there. Yeah, bridge the cross, man. Totally. What came first, that riff or the lyrics? I think, for me, it's usually, um, what's it? Let's it see. No, usually for me, it's always, always the music and then the lyrics are always last.

I mean, I never, unless I think of a song title or something, or I read a headline or something, and it goes, oh, that'd be a cool name for a song or something like that. But, no, for me, it's usually always the music first. Even whether it's the piano or the acoustic guitar or clean thing like that, it would be the music first and then, music and then obviously the music always inspire a melody. You know, no matter if it's heavy or mellow.

And then after that, and then, then, don't think about what I want to sing it about and then I'll start writing the lyrics. So that riff kind of sparked like some kind of... Yeah, I think usually when we'd be doing stuff like that, if we were in the studio, when we were working on 1990, we were probably, after we got done doing a bunch of heavy things, it was just like, you know, then you just want to do something different than riffs, take a break from the heavy stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You're like, you know, I'm feeling... I'm feeling sad. I'm feeling emotional. That's that one That's nice dude I'm gonna learn that one If there's one ZZ Top song to learn

To learn harmonics Which one? What's that for you? I mean, well it would actually have to be LaGrange probably I mean if anybody wanted to learn ZZ Top you know with the pinch harmonics That's one they're all over that one That's it Yeah Lagrange man

Totally Okay Also you you do leads and solos like I riff like I don't know what it's fucking called they call it tremble picking

but I'm just like speed picking but but you do that for your for your solos where did you get that from you I mean you do Zach I mean you do solos like you're doing like a tepano riff you're just like I did well you know

I mean I was just kind of so yeah how else this carry I mean it's just I guess just just from picking everything you know but uh there's not a lot of hammerons and legato but i mean but if you you know okay you know just because just a matter of just picking okay so you know yeah that's all that's it yeah just over and over and over and over and then over again and again when did you start then repeat rinse a repeat uh yes when did you start wild audio because because you actually we're

going to go on a 10 year anniversary coming up Ten years, really? Yeah, ten years. Holy crap. And you actually hand-draw the body shapes, correct? Yeah, I'll draw everything. You know, so, I mean, it's just like with this guy, I'll just draw it on a piece of paper and just trace it out the way I want it. And then...

Where did this one come from? No, this one, it's just like... I can't... I'll just think of, like, cool guitars that I remember as a kid or whatever, and I'll just... I mean, I have a book with a bunch of cool-looking old guitars. I mean, Japanese guitars are, like, amazing. the older Japanese guitars, the designs on that.

And then a lot of, you know, boutique things and stuff like that, just, as much as I love my Les Paul's, you know, because you can't get any class here than a Les Paul. I love the SGs. I love, you know, but then when you think about with the, in 58, when they came up with the, you know,

the Modern, the Explorer, and the VIII, like people were losing their minds for no shit you know i mean they're like what is this this doesn't look like a guitar you know what i mean so uh that the hit yeah but look at that that's where i guarantee if you ask st roge if you ask randy where you got the you know his the concord the offset v there it is you know it's the it's the modern except the modern looks like it melted whereas like randie's randies is just the modern twist on that guitar you know because it's poignant.

You know what Randy's offset B with the shark, you know, with the shark fin and then the smaller bout. There you go. Look at Randy's guitar. It's a, it's a modern twist on the modern. No pun intended. Modern.

See that? Who knew? See, that's what happens. We can smash a couple cups of Odden force. Yeah, but that's a poignant version of the modern. I never see. Totally. That's what it is.

with the smaller bout and then the bigger bout. That's an interesting shape, dude. Totally, I love it. But you know what it is? It's from the end of like a Cadillac. See how the car, it goes up? It's the back end of a Cadillac. Oh, shit.

That's what it is. A Cadillac CTS is my favorite. Yeah, which I... Oh, he's playing it. There you go. Shout out to James. I think they're great. I love them.

All the ugly duckings, I love them. I mean, as much as I love my Les Paul's. And everything like that, it's just, as far as the shape goes, I just love all the shapes of all the odd guitars. The great. Look at the tail end that they're good. Oh, yeah. The back end of the car. It's the fins on the car.

Oh, okay. Oldern came from. I wonder what your car that is. You know? 59. Oh, if you had 50s. Yeah, like look at the fin ends on those Cadillacs. Right there, see?

there it is look it there it is the moderns that's literally that's literally it and this is a 19 if you're listening we're looking at a picture of a 1960s a catalac coop well there it is that's a classic car and those moderns they came out in 50 58 so that's what it is the back end of a car yeah but uh yeah totally but that's why i usually get all the shapes and then my buddy um john he's a graphic artist who when we do all the merch in and they like that he'll he'll design it up on a computer and then we'll send it to my buddy John over at Schechter

who makes all the guitars with me all the wild audio guitars. And then what John will do is he'll make a cardboard cut out of it and so I'll get the cardboard cut out so we can see whether the body shape is too big or too small. You know, it's like John, it's too small it's got to be a little bigger or whatever

or vice versa. Do you test it? Yeah, and then I'm like, oh, it feels good and then we have like a cardboard neck so you can see what it's going to look like and then he'll make the wood body and so i'll have it from the paper to the cardboard then we get the wood body and then if everything's right it's just like all right have them have them make one and that and the rest is history yeah sometimes yeah so there you got there's the cardboard and

there's the real thing wow you know and so yeah the double neck i have that sitting at the house the behemoth the behemoth the behemoth that's a yeah you got the barbarian over there on the left and the behemoth on the right, the cardboard. And it's all classic woods, like mahogany body. You know, yeah, you got your mahogany bodies. And then if we want to put a beautiful top on it, you know, with, you know, whether it's going to be a tiger top or, you know. A tiger top?

Well, you know, if you want to put a nice flame on there or, you know, a quilt top. I heard that. Nice. Or a beautiful piece of maple on there. We'll just put a veneer on it. So, you know, it's just a thin piece of maple, a beautiful piece of wood. So you got a nice. blame on it, but the body

will be mahogany. And then the next, we usually always go with the maple, and then, you know, or go with a maple fretboard or the Ebony fretboard. Foundational woods. Yeah, they're just your tried and true woods. But, like, you know, I mean, and the main thing is your

pickups. So, because that's a mic, that's the microphone of your guitar, whether it's, you know, whether it's a shore, or you got a $12,000 telephone tube, where they just, they're crisp and they pick up everything. You know, so, I mean, for me, I heard the EMGs when I, before I started playing with us, one of my guitar students had one and he was just like, I was like, what is that? And he goes, oh, they're called EMG pickups.

You got to stick a battery in your guitar. I was like, a battery. What are you talking about? And he was like, oh, you got to put a nine-bolt battery in the back of the guitar. So I'm like, I never even heard of that. So I was like, what kind of sorcery is this? So, uh, played it. Anyways, I had my little, you know, I had a, uh, 50-wop Marshall combo with a master volume,

like a 78 combo. And hearing my Les Paul, the PAF's in it, and his, his little fender, yeah, a Mustang, right? A jaguar. A jaguar. Mustang. And the clarity, it sounded like somebody took a moving blanket off the, off the cabinet. I mean, there you go. That's what I had.

a martial combo just like that but I was just but the difference was it just truly like I didn't I didn't need to be sold on the pickups

it was just you know and yeah hearing is believing you know what I mean it's just like wow I was just I was blown away of the clarity the highs the lows

it really sounded like somebody took a moving blanket and took it off the speakers where it didn't sound all muffled and everything like that it just sounded crystal clear. I guess if we had the television it was all blurry and then you just

you fix it. You find you fixed it and then it came in crystal clear. Oh wow. You know, I was just like, wow, that's what it's supposed to look like. You know what I mean? So it's instead of it being all blurry, it was the difference of your eyesight, you know, so but hearing it was just like blurry and then it was crystal clear. You found this sound by accident.

What's that? You found that sound by accident. It's kind of like an accident One of my students I was gonna ask you And I never heard of EMGs before And I you know That was before I started playing with Oz Yeah so

So in in high school You were you were teaching You were giving lessons Yeah Okay Totally Why did you have like one student A couple

No no I had a bunch You know so Which was great You know what I mean Because I love it You know So they all come in with new Different things that they wanted to learn

And whatever you know Whatever CDC or you know, rat, Sabbath, Zeppelin, whatever anybody wanted to learn, you know, and then you teach them, you know, your theory. You know, you're scales, your diatonics, and your pentatonic, so you start learning the language. Oh, okay. So, yeah, so this way you can learn how to break it down yourself. So you're giving them scales and stuff?

Yeah, you have to. You know, just so you know the language, you know what I mean? Or if you're going to play, you know, if we're going to do, if I'm telling you the soul and E minor, you know if we're doing if we're going to be jamming voodoo chow if you're in e minor you know e minor if we're going to do red house in a now you know you're an a

if you're doing a G if you're in G you know so just so you know you're fretboard but yeah but I mean but in the meantime you teach whoever it is you're teaching you teach them teach them you know then teach them songs they want to learn you know what I mean but

I mean that's what I mean my guitar teacher Leroy did, and he was the best. So, yeah, so this way it's still fun while you have learning the language. You know what I mean? So you treated scales like it's a language to learn. Yeah, without a doubt. So this way, you know, when somebody goes, oh, bro, we're an F sharp, or we're over here in G, then it goes to E, then it goes to D and then C.

You're an E minor, E, D, C. So you're solo over that. So now you know how to solo. You're an E minor, so you know how to solo. You know what I mean? You know, you're an F-sharp, F-sharp minor, you know, so now you know how to solo there. If you're in B, we're playing, you know, 2 O in Stone by Robin Trowler. Down, down, we're in B.

So this way you know how to transpose all your scales. So, but it depends on what you want to do. I mean, you know, not everybody wants to play, you know, solos. You know, I mean, it has to be up to the player, you know, if you want to know that. I mean, like Kirk Cobain, Kurt would be like, Zach, I just want to, learn how to play. I just want to write songs and stuff like that. As a power cord, yeah. I don't need to know John McLaughlin licks because, Zach, I really, I'm not interested, you know what I mean? Robert Lee. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, if you

don't have an interest in it, what are you going to sit around? Kurt doesn't need to know. He's just like, Zach, I'll have somebody else in a band if they want to shred Lee guitar, you know what I mean? What would you tell him? I'd rather just sing and write songs, you know what I I mean, so. Yeah, what would you tell a player that just wants to write songs? If that's what you want to know, then that's what you should learn. You know what I mean? So you have to, yeah, because, like, if you don't want to play classical guitar,

what are you going to apply 10 hours a day learning classical guitar? When first of all, you don't even like classical music, and you're going to sit around playing classical guitar for it. It just doesn't make any sense. You know, just play what you love, you know? That's what you have. have to do. I mean, that's, that's the whole secret to the whole thing, man. Maybe that's where playing goes into practicing. Maybe. So, oh, now it feels like work. Now it feels like,

yeah, I'm like, exactly. It feels like you're forcing something, right? Yeah. I mean, if something doesn't move you, then what are you learning it for? That's like eating food you don't even like. What are eating it for? You know what I mean? Eat what you like. So, but, um, yeah, it depends on you're playing. I mean, you know, if you want to get a higher degree and you want to learn, you know, then you learn calculus. But I mean, if you already know, if you just want to play rock and roll, I just need to know

how to add and subtract. You know what I mean? But if you want to start getting into more advanced music, then you apply yourself and you, now I've got to learn calculus. Now I've got to learn, you know, division. I've got to learn, you know, it depends on what you want to play. Musically. I mean, that's all. There is no right

and there is no wrong. It's what's good for you and what you love. You know what you're doing that I love? If I want a guitar, people ask me, do you want, like, the lighter wood? So you're still going with mahogany? Yeah. You haven't maybe, because you broke a vertebrae, right?

And a rib? A while ago. Yeah, totally. Yeah, broke my back. But, no, but I mean, like you said, like, I mean, these are just dried and true woods and stuff like that, that. But like...

It's not too heavy? No. not at all. I mean, they're probably like, you know. That's a game changer for me. Either like, I mean, I never, I never played less Paul's and was like, oh, they're too heavy. That's a game changer for me, Zach. People keep telling me, oh, you should try like the bass, will you try like the lighter would?

It's better pour your back. And I'm just, I just turned 40. Yeah, but I mean, but I'm just saying. This is mahogany. I mean, it doesn't matter. The guitar is lighter and it sounds great. Who cares? You know what I mean?

It's whatever, whatever sounds good and whatever you like. I mean, like you said, like if the guitar is hollowed down, and it's lighter and it's just like because you got back problems and good you know then that works and then you're like man that guitar sounds great

it's like yeah it's hollowed out or whatever it's just like who cares you know what I mean maybe if you want a Mahabian body you gotta work you gotta have your workout routine Jay Jha our producer

asked me what's the workout routine you get to feel that thing that ain't that heavy oh it's cool nice dude you know there you go that has something like

that has some like sustain right there That's dope, man. There you go. That's sick. Told you. There you go, see. I'll have to ship one of these out. You can use it on a tour.

Oh, sick, dude. Oh, tune to drop A. Ship you out of Rathmaker. What about the amps? Because you also have amps, too, right? Yeah, we're doing, actually, I got the proto's. I've been actually using all the protoes for a while now. So, but we just brought the, it's a wild audio master 140.

140 watts So this one actually goes to 12 So I ended up bringing that on the road With a Pantera celebration Yeah There you go I got my wild audio head So

I'll be testing those out on Friday I got a bunch of them coming to the house I still have all my old marshals But there's the wild audio tops With the nice With the tiger top wood up there Yeah the all wood So it looks like a nice piece of furniture in your house

Wow There you go So it goes to 12 Yeah, so if you don't play guitar, you can use it as an end table or something in your house. So there you go. Or coffee table. Dude, that thing is beautiful. I remember walking into Schechter.

This was, I was playing Schechter a while ago, and it was like, keep this hush-hush, but I think they just made you like a prototype. I saw it there. I was like, oh, shit, Zach's going with Schechter, but I didn't know. Oh, what was that? An amp or something like that? No, no, it was. Oh, the guitars.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. You know, sometimes you get, like, secrets. Hey, don't tell you one, but But we've been sending Zach some of Schechter's Oh shit, cool You know, I met up with Mike and the guys over there

So Yeah, I've been there For a while now You know, like we said, we're going on 10 years now So Mike and Mark over there Over at Schecter, they're awesome They're great And they and the gang making the guitars

You know, but just like my Epis And all my Gibson's I never played one that was bad. They were all crushing. I was never like, oh, man, quality controls going down. You know, I mean, it was just opening up out of the box, pick it up, and it was like, this is great. Yeah.

And it's the same thing with all the wild audio stuff. It's just, they slamming. They all play great, man. Great. We did, I'm not sure if you remember Zach, but I did a tour with you in 2009. It was Mudvane, Black Label Society. suicide and uh so that was a tour where you had you had to step away now i remember oh yeah i got

the blood clots and everything like that you got you got you got you got the blood clots i remember i think we were in bend or eugene organ and uh everyone was fucking bummed and i remember like just like a week earlier me and mark were we're walking into the venue and then when you know when you're a kid you're like you guys got to do a longer set tonight man i i know you know there it is boom Yeah. So it was this, it was this run. And you were walking into the venue as well, but you had a fucking six-pack in your right-hand and you were drinking with their laughing, and were like, damn, that's so cool.

Well, but actually the booze was thinning my blood. But actually, the funny part of the whole thing was, you know, with the doctor, he goes, Zach, do you know if you, you know, if you genetically, you may have gotten this from your mom or dad, you know hereditary wise and I go you know if your mom and dad had blood clad I go I wouldn't know they're both in God's tavern so I wouldn't I don't know

and he goes well I don't know how to say this as a doctor but all your years of drinking by thinning your blood may have saved your life and I told my wife my girlfriend Barbara Ann I go see drinking is good for something she didn't she wasn't laughing about that but

no but no but uh but yeah because that's what the blood thinner You know, taking blood thinners, I was like, doctor, I got to chill out on a drink. And he goes, well, no, he goes, Zach, well, all it is is blood thinner. You're going to put in blood thinner on blood thinner. So it's just going to be thinning your blood. He goes, more, you know, taking the blood thinners, he goes, but I'm looking at your liver

enzymes and your pancreas enzymes. He goes, I don't mean to be the bear or bad news, but you're 42 years old right now. By the time you're 45, you'll have to have a liver transplant. And I go, well, oh, he said that to you? That doesn't sound good. I figured I'd be coasting into my 70s. I'd be like, Lemmy, going into my 70s having a cocktail. But I was like, wow, that's very ungood.

That doesn't sound good. So he goes, well, Zach, he goes, you can either quit as you're looking at me right now and just walk out of here and not have another drink or you know where you're headed. And I was like, eh, that doesn't sound good. So I was just like, that was it. I just, that's it. was the end of the drink. The pub was closed right after that. So

the guys were just like you know, they were like, Zach, do you have a good support team around you? I said, yeah, of course. I said the fellas were like, oh buddy, Zachie, uh, it sucks, we're going to lose a drinking partner. You know, but you had a good

run, but, uh, you know, we'll be at the pub for about six hours. Come pick us up. You know, we gained a designated driver. I see in about six hours. Yes, that's how supportive they were and then they poked me in the eyes and they punched me in the mouth oh man yes because they said Ozzie isn't doing that to you anymore so we will so so your liver was trashed it was his that was it I was done and the guys relegated me as designated driver and that's so I've been

made going light on the Coleman's and picking up my drunk buddies ever since 2009 now well what was the hardest part for you um oh no nothing I mean Because I, you know, for me, drinking, you know, we do a gig and then we're rolling down the bus for, you know, me and you're making you a cocktail and another beer. And then, you know, it's just solving the problems of the world in the front of the tour bus and just having a good time. But it was like, no, I mean, like, I just enjoy drinking just as the social aspect of it. Us going to the bar, just chilling out, having a good time and relaxing. But, no, nothing. I mean, it's just like, it's over.

It's over. It's over. It's okay. I'm done. It's just like if I was a wrestler and you were my doctor and you were like, Zach, if I had a neck injury and you told me, Zach, one more fall from like, if you're changing the light bulbs in the house, you've got to be careful. You know, like a bad fall could paralyze it? Like, I'm done. You know, I'm done wrestling.

You know, if I'm going to be paralyzed or I'll just move into the next phase of my career. You know what I mean? If I was a football player or anything, now next thing, you know, we move into coaching, vice president of office. operations are me and you become team owners, you know what I mean? But moving to the next phase. I mean, for me, it wasn't a hard decision. I was like, well, I had a blast when we were drinking. Thank the good Lord, nobody got killed.

And next. You know what I mean? So that's why I just shifted over to glue and sniffing and eating paint chips. Like I said, the results are sounding the same. But they're less filling. There's less calories in the glue and the paint chips. Now, a lot of people could do that. Just stop.

People will keep on talking. Actually, better yet, I had one of my buddies down in a pub, halfway through a pint, mid pint, and he quit. Quit drinking. Didn't even finish it. Like, oh, I might as well just kill this. This is my last one. Didn't even do that.

He was heavy. He goes, I'm done. And that was it. Walked out and never had another one. But yeah, but I mean, I just hang around with it. You know, it doesn't bother me when the guys are all drinking around me. It doesn't bother me anymore Because like I said

I'm so blasted on the paint chips and the glue I don't even realize they're drinking anyways Next question What's? Wow That's a special mindset man Not a lot of people could do that It's always like a struggle

And like a Well I give Barbara and the glue And the paint chips as well Because she doesn't realize She's been married to me for 87 years And we have four children It just eases the pain She has no idea

What's been a What's been the hardest part for you, Zach, with playing the Pantera songs. What's been the hardest part of that gig? Well, no, you just sit and you learn them. You know what I mean? But it's just, I mean, what I just find super interesting is, like, you know, going into the catalog

and learning, you know, all the core choices that dime would make, you know, going into a pre-course or something. It's like, oh, wow, that's cool. I would have never went there, you know what I mean? Or just, you know, you just, you know, you just hear, and I could hear where Dime's going. Like, if Dime was there, I'd go, I see what you did there.

He's like, oh, yeah, that's the reason why I went there, because it seems like it's obvious to go here. So I would go here. You know what I mean? So, yeah. But I think that's what makes Dime, you know, another realm of his greatness, just like Randy and Eddie and all the guys that inspired him, is his writing. You know what I mean? The side of his amazing technique and the solos and everything like that,

It's just his writing. You know what I mean? So, like, all the guys that we love, whether there's Tony Iommi, Jimmy Page, Randy, Eddie, it's their writing. And, you know, the solos are the icing on the cake. But it's the cake. You have to have the cake to put the icing on.

It's true. Yeah. You got to have the foundation. Mind you, the sugar is good. You know what I mean? There's nothing wrong we're getting a massive case of diabetes, a delicious case of diabetes. But, you know, the frosting is amazing.

it's delicious but you need the cake is there any riffs to come up or like oh guy here here's this one where's you have like one that's like a hardest riff or something I thought it was fun we were playing I'll cast a shadow we added that to the set oh really oh that's it

damn that one was cool in D it was like one of the few songs that Dime ever wrote that was in D because it would have dropped the tuning and then that was my favorite song from that record We added that one, and then 10s, we added to the show.

That was fun playing that one every night. And then obviously floods, you know, some of the, you know, the darker ones and the mellow guys. But I have a blast playing every one of the songs, you know what I mean? Nothing fully challenging. You're like, oh, you're good. No, yesterday, I don't mean shit. That was always fun playing that one. Yes.

It was a good up rock song. I just love the whole thing, right from the beginning to the whole set. You know, it's fun playing. the whole thing and you know just uh and rolling up there with charlie rex and philip it's just it's all and i the whole pantera celebration family everybody that's there the entire the crew from hell and everything like that just all great people and it's a beautiful thing every night what was that first show like what were you feeling actually the first one was this before the kibuki dropped it felt like i got the rush kind of like the first ozzy gig i ever did like it did the like

the adrenaline and the rush, you know what I mean, brought me back to, like, the first Ozzy show I ever did, you know, in Pensacola, Florida. It was like that, you know, like the four of us all together and ready to do this thing. So, yeah, but like I said, I have a play. Is this the first one? Is this the first? Yeah, that was the one down in, uh, I think we were in Mexico. Oh, yeah.

Do, do, do, were you nervous, man? Like, I can't, fuck this stuff. We're in there somewhere. Look it Where are you, man? They're in there somewhere There they are There they are

Where are? I can't see the edge of the stage Yeah, everybody just All four would just fall off the edge of the stage If they push Charlie off with the drum riser I was wondering what you were feeling Because you have a different perspective Not because you're older and you're sober

So I was like, I wonder what Zach was feeling During that first first gig channeling the songs or something yeah new level and everything like that it was a lot of fun man for sure she is just rocking the tunes

totally that was a good time it's a great time we're going to be doing four shows with Metallica I think in July or something like that oh geez so we got a couple shows over there with Mattow but you know but we did almost like almost four years it was like about three and a half years because that gig was

2022 It was. What the heck? We are 2026, man. You know, we just did that run. The next thing you knew, it was like, oh, man, we did, you know, we did a year, went home, waited for a little bit, then went out again. And we were home, and then, you know, in the whole meantime, I was writing engines of demolition. Oh, wow.

And it was just like, I don't know, just keep writing. There we go. When is it in July? Oh, May. Yep. May 24. There you go. Avatar, holy shit, there's...

Yeah, so we're... We're... We're... We're out on that one, too, man. It's a lot of fun. Avatar is stoked, dude. That's definitely cool. Did you feel like any...

When did you feel your groove? Did you feel like, oh, I'm kind of... Um... Well, no, I think the more and more you do it, the more you're comfortable, even anything. Even doing the Ozzy shows, doing the Zach Sabbath shows. I think with...

I think with anything. You know, he's just... The more you do it, the more you do it, the more you, not easier. Just the more natural, anything. It's just natural, yeah, I'm jamming, I'm playing. Yeah, or even with black label, the beginnings of, you know, I think the first three shows or whatever, you know, everybody's worried about it being, you know, even the crew, making sure the lights are cool and, you know, the guitar changes,

that this and that, and, you know, whatever. So, you know, yeah. But like you said, it's just the whole crew, all great people. So it's just, it's always, when we all get together, it's like getting together from summer camp. So it's all good. You know those guys for a while?

Yeah. A long time. Like I said, man, we've been together for a couple years doing it. So it's always a blast, man. Because the people, they're like, people have their records, but it's hard for people to understand, wait, you actually know these, these are actually friends.

Yes. Yeah, totally, man. I've known the guys, you know, we've all known each other for years. So it's just, but now, you know, I'm just truly honored. I get to roll with the fellows every night in the whole camp. I got another self, his question. So I remember, again, like, if you, I mean, Zach, you're in the outside, like me. And I remember, like, back in a day, they were like, oh, you know,

Zach should play for Pantera. Did you ever feel that pressure or did you ever feel like that would never happen or he just closed off to it? No, no. The way I always looked at it is almost kind of like

you have, you know, Jimmy, when Jimmy Hendricks passed away, if Mitch and Noel would have asked Eric Clapton, Eric, you know, we're going to go out and honor Jimmy

and we're going to, you know, celebrate his life. Would you play and sing Jimmy's stuff? You know, so Eric just breaks out the marshals and, you know, his cream guitar and a whole nine yards.

And it's just, his cream rig and goes out and sings and plays Jimmy's stuff. Of course, Eric would do it because that was his buddy and he, you know, he loved Jimmy. So, yeah, I always told, you know, when Vinny was still with us with Vincenzo, he was just like, I always told the guys, he said, if you're ever going to, you know, like there was always that rumor out there, whatever I go, if you guys are ever going to do it and you want me to, of course, I would, I'll be there to support you. You know what I mean?

So it was ever, you know, Rob Halford told, you know, it was like, man, Zach, it's really a beautiful thing you and Charlie were out of here doing. This was when we were down doing those shows because we were opening up for Judas Priest a couple shows. And he was like, man, it's a beautiful thing. I said, thanks, Rob, I go, because I always said, it's not a matter of if I'll do it,

it's a matter of when the fellas ask. You know what I mean? Of course I'll be there. I laid dime the rest, so of course I'll be there for him. You know what I mean? show everybody, you know, carry on Dimes' legacy and Vinnie. So, you know,

because it's crazy how, you know, every night when Philip asked everybody how many people saw Pantera back in the day, so you have the Pantera faithful. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, but people that are like, man, I saw Pantera when they were playing in the club, in a bar and grill with eight people in there, you know what I mean? And then you have, it feels like,

how many people this is the first time ever seeing Pantera? It was they only heard about Pantera through the legend of, you know, their dad or their uncle that were like, oh, man, we saw him back in the day, you know. And it's just, they're like, it's amazing how many kids are just like this is the first time ever seeing Pantera because, like, Pantera took, you know, it ended when the guys took a break when a lot of kids that weren't even born. You know what I mean?

So in 2000 or whatever it was, 2001. How was a freshman? So, yeah, so they weren't even around. So, yeah, so it's a beautiful thing seeing them come down and be able to hear these songs that Dime and Vinny wrote with Philip and Rex, you know, to hear them for the first time live. Because they never got a chance to see Dime and Vinny, you know, with Philip and Rex back in the day. No. When you guys went down to Columbia, that was my first time seeing Pantaro. Oh, wow.

Well, there you go. Oh, there it is, man. I'm living proof. I want to see something. There you go. Totally. That's their first experience. All right.

I got one more question for you. Lay it on me, brother. Go for it. Again, from my Patreon. This is from Cliff Sharp. You don't have to play it, but ask him to play Machine Gun Man if he still remembers it and what it was like growing up in New Jersey. Thank you, Cliff Sharp.

Machine Gun Man goes like this. Oh, yeah. He's me so stoked. Yeah, machine gun man Called the Jimmy Hendricks cords in there Ormond brothers But that's machine gun man And then obviously

Growing up in New Jersey I All my friends and everything I love growing up out there So I still go back You know, me and my girlfriend of 87 years Yes Barbara Ann

We go back You know, I love the Jersey Shore I love Point Pleasant. I love Asbury Park. Belmar, you got all the beaches and the boardwalks down there. Great. And then, yeah, like you said, man, I love going back to the, you know, East Coast. So.

It's home. Yeah, I always have nothing but great memories attached to all that stuff. And then, you know, playing a Stone Pony and everything like that. Stone Pony. He's still there? Yeah, totally. They have to do big outdoor gigs now. They weren't doing them when I was playing now.

there with zyrus before i started playing with oz but they do like right next to it they have this big thing now oh wow they play outdoors yeah summer stage we did one of them with father to rio roberto was playing with us we did a black label gig out there when they first started doing those outdoor things so uh which is great because they do them during the summer so it's not you know inside but uh yeah so important legendary place man you see open patiti quick when we were there and everything like that was great But opened up there for Blowers, the Colt, and we opened up for a zebra there as well with Cyrus.

Nice. Pretty cool. That's awesome, man. Yeah. All right, Zach, let's close this one off. What are, do you have a, and there's no right or wrong answer. It could be old or current.

Is there, what are three artists, guitar players, bands, records for people to check out? I think Frank Marino Mahogany Rush Live Check that one out That one's crushing It's crushing Yes there he is Frank Marino Mahogany Rush Live

I mean Without a doubt One of the greatest guitar players that ever lived For sure So there's plenty of guitar lessons On that record alone Without a doubt The price of admission on that one

So, um, I guess, I guess we'll go with that one. And let me think. Just, you know, just, I mean, because you have, obviously, I can't say Zeppelin and Sabbath, because everybody knows about that in our genre. But I mean, I guess, let me say maybe like the Dixie Dregs industry standard with Steve Morris. That's great. And then, let me see what else we want to put in there. Yeah.

That's crushing. This is crushing, dude. This is crushing. Yeah, Steve Moore. The whole band's insane. And then I guess... That's crushing, dude. I guess...

I guess... I guess in Mahavisional Orchestra. Put that in there. Oh, wow. That's some insanity. Actually, probably... What is this? Yes.

What is this, dude? That one right there. John McLaughlin. Jerry Goodman. John Hammer. Rick Laird, and you got Billy Cobbham over there on a drum. I mean, that's like, as far as Mount Rushmore of musicians of insanity, that's about as good as it's going to get.

I mean, that whole album's full of guitar lessons and musician lessons all over that. But, yeah, anything about it, the live stuff is pretty incredible. But they only lasted for two records, that lineup, which is pretty insane. So, yeah, maybe between nothingness and eternity. any of the live stuff, and I think they've just been putting some live stuff out recently, down at the bottom there. I guess what is it? Like the live, yeah, right there at Yale University.

Oh. That thing's pretty insane, too. A bunch of these, yeah, these live things have been coming out lately. So this is new. Yeah, Berkeley community, those are new releases, 24, right? So there you go. Yeah, check out any of that stuff. So that's three decent ones to check out.

And you want to check out Alan Holsworth. he's insane too. You know, as far as guitar playing goes. Awesome. Thanks, Zach. Anything by Alan Holtworth, too. That's all good. Oh, yeah, that's... And the same thing with all the live live stuff, just the IOU record, anything like that. It's all good. Is that, uh, go back, Jay?

Is that a headless guitar? He's got a head say. That's a Charvel right there. Jay, you are past it. Boom. Yeah. What is that thing? That's a carving. Is that a carbon? Yep. They were making

the signature guitars at the end there. What? So Carvin made Helles guitar's back in the day? Yeah, for Alan Holsworth. They did all his signature guitars.

Oh, shit. I didn't know that. Yep. Oh, shit. Like back in the 70s, he played an SG too, though. But yeah, but he loved the Steinbergers

and he'd go further back. Oh, Steinberger. Nice. Like further on, like, in the early days, he was playing an SG. Oh, shit. Russian? But, yeah, he's just.

It's like Alan Holder It's a whole world and to itself Cool well I think the people know where to find you There you go there's Alan Holdsworth with the S-G Oh there we go classic classic crushing Yep Totally sick well Find you in IG

Here's another band that's out there Just great musicianships Let's do it Name of a band is Pado P-A-T-O Paddo Oley Hassel He's like ridiculous

I got on hold with. There you go. Check them out. The singer sounds a lot like Mike Patto. He sounds a lot like Chris Robinson. Is the Black Crows? Yeah. Is Man the record?

Yep, there it is. Patto. That's another cool band that checked out. Without a doubt. The guitar player, Ollie Hassel, out of control. Out of control. Sick. Yeah.

Oh, this is, if you're high, you're... Oh, you're loving Patto, bro. And then the Zylofo, like, Ollie Hassel's shredding on that thing, like ripping on it, like playing scales and everything like that. Like blazing guitar. Cool. Well, Zach, thank you for being here. And thank you for your time, man. We're out of that.

Well, thanks for having me on, my brother. Pleasure. All right. All right. That's it. Later. Yeah. All right.

Off to my day. I'll see.