Garza Podcast - 23: Mike Gitter | CENTURY MEDIA RECORDS A&R, Ex-ROADRUNNER

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Mike Gitter is the A&R for Century Media Records. We talk about how to get off the sidelines, signing Killswitch Engage, and much more. SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB

Our following guest is the A&R for Century Media Records. His first official gift was at Atlantic, where he would go on to sign Battery Legion. This really sick band called Jawbox, which I've been listening to lately, so go check him out. From there, he will go on to Roadrunner during that legendary time period and signed El Nino, KillsFitch Engage, Megadeth, and the list goes on. I really hope you enjoy this kind of behind-the-scenes conversation. Let's get into it. Please welcome the man, the legend, Mike Gitter. And there's Garza.

Mike Gitter, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Reading about this off bandzine, I was like, oh shit, now I have the book in my hand. Pretty cool, man. Yeah, it's, it's, it came out three, it's a book that I worked on for about three years. Yeah. With a guy named Chris Wren, who runs a fantastic record label in the Boston area called Bridge Nine Records.

And that's been home to like legendary, sort of mostly Boston hardcore bands like American Nightmare. But even more, even more like, you know, current bands like war on women. Okay.

And Chris is just one of these like incredibly dynamic, driven, committed people. And when he said to me, I want to do a book focused around your, you know,

your early 80s, hardcore fanzine. Yeah. I said, I'm in. Wow. And we went down the road in lots of rabbit holes, and in 2017, the darn thing came out. Wow.

That's awesome. So you, yeah, because you started the fanzine in the early 80s. Mm-hmm. Triple X-O. Did you find, like, you were like, what was it like going back and like, dang, like, you, like, you, like, you, like, wrote this. Like, you created this. Well, I think, I think, you know, there's a couple of answers. to that. The first thing I would say is anytime anybody writes a book, documents their history,

even, you know, writes or records music, effectively you're claiming your space. Yeah. And, you know, I think if you look at like what I've done over the course of my career, yeah, an incredibly fun and rewarding one. Yeah. It's, it's there's a sense of, of, of, of, I've done. I've done. Of, of, you know, there's an archival sense. There's an archivist's sense. And, you know, that goes from being a, you know, 14 or 15-year-old in the, you know, living north of Boston and documenting, you know, what was really getting me off and broadening my world at the time, which was this immersion into,

you know punk hardcore and DIY culture we'll get to that yeah all the way to being a you know like writing for a number of magazines eking out living you know through that and ultimately you know since 1993 more you know on and not more or less throughout the entire time um you know having having a career as an an r executive and at a you know a handful of different different labels. Yeah. And what, you know, if I'm to look back at and go,

okay, well, what's the common thread? What's the through line? There's a sense of documentation. It's almost like this quest for permanency. You know, how do we leave our mark? What do we leave behind? And I think we all do it for different reasons and nobody ever does it consciously.

But it's, you know, But it's definitely been an awesome and interesting ride. Yeah. But going back to 1982, you know, to 1982. Let's go. We'll go. We're going to go there. Set the way back.

Way back, way back, way back, way back. See, coffee does this. It does. It gets you all amped up. Yep. Cheers. By the way, I thought I was going to have your, you have your homebrew. I know, well, I was going to make something

you requested coffee and wear out Starbucks and then we just bought coffee. Well, I appreciate. I was going to brew you coffee. I'm serious about brewing coffee. Okay, well, we're next time for part two because this is going to go long. Yeah.

We'll do that. Okay. So, you know, I think, if I'm to sum up sort of what was going on in my head, you know, in 1982, it was really the notion of getting off the sidelines. Wow.

Right? And I think that that's an important lesson, I think, for every young person. You know, I grew up in a town called Marblehead, Massachusetts, which is about 20, 30 minutes north of Boston. It's the next town over from Salem, Massachusetts. And there were things in the air. There was... There was kind of a new vibe that I was feeling as I was going to maybe junior high school

and starting to see these guys, you know, in my neighborhood who were like a little scary, a little intimidating, skateboarding around my hometown. And now keep in mind, you know, I had already, like, in terms of like my musical, you know, origins, you know, everything from Jim Crocey, yes, bad, bad, Leroy Brown, to Led Zeppelin, to Alice Cooper, to Black Sabbath, to Erasmith, you know, growing up in Boston, of course, all, you know, we're already in the ether, right? And I was, and because I lived in a town, I mean, you know, we tend to be, it's, we tend to be at the right place and right time. And I was definitely at the right place and the right time because I was also growing up in a town that already had a really rich musical history. You know, that went back to, like I said, Aerosmith and Modern Lovers and, you know, great, great, like, clubs like the rat. you know there was

and a lot of that had to do with the fact that you know growing in Boston there's a number of colleges there so there's an influx of young people you know wanting to kick out the proverbial jams and there were record stores and there was college radio so all the ingredients were swirling around for me to take in and go

I'm you know for me to take it and go there's something I'm about to discover and and when I discovered you know I guess you would call it the local hardcore scene is probably the easiest way to put it but but I think that that almost trivializes it to a point where

you know you I would say when I discovered DIY culture that that became the rocket fuel that you know that started this thing um and you know why so what i noticed early on was there were these you know i would go to some stores like like newberry comics um just as they were as they were because i was also you know a comics head and like i was the kid that tried to read dune when he was like you know 12 years old nice like like like definitely

trying, you know, trying to intellectually punch harder than my, you know, than my ability. Yeah. Still am. Um, and I would go, you know, to stores like Newberry Comics and I would start to see these records appearing on the shelves. And they were pretty stark and pretty aggressive in, in, in what they were, in what the covers were conveying. Yeah.

Um, and it was, it was stuff like, um, um, and it was stuff like, um, um, you know, black flags damaged with Henry's fist slamming into a mirror. Nice. You know, the famous Ed Culver shot. Or it was, let me see. You know, that's a great one, the jarring adolescence blue album. But then I noticed a record by a band called SSD Control. It was called The Kids Will Have Their Say.

And the cover of that record is iconic. If you're listening to this and you're not familiar with it, you know, go and Google this. It's as iconic as the Babbrain's Lightning Bolt on the Capitol Building. The cover of that record are a bunch of guys running up the stairs of the Boston State House. and in the center of it all it's a black and white picture um

in the center in the center of it all is a guy is a guy wearing a jacket that says the straight edge on the background so this there's this whole just incredibly militant image that in its own right becomes a you know to me it was like a challenge to authority and what I realized at that

moment well on further examination I found out that some of these guys I had seen around my neighborhood were members of that band and you know what I would find is that this was a record and by the way I got the record and I brought it home and from the first like swell of feedback into a song called Boiling Point

it was everything that just a awkward and alienated, you know, which is every kid, you know, 15 or 16 year old me wanted you hear at that point. It was it was liberation. And I realized like these were people from my neck of the woods. These were people who, you know, organized their own, ultimately I figure out we'd organize their own shows. you know, figure out how to put out and release their own record. Basically, and this ties into the notion

of what I've always considered punk to be, you know, they did it themselves. They reshaped the world that they wanted to see before them. And that was, you know, that was one of the great inspirations. Now, while I was also discovering at the time, where there were a number of other, the number of magazines, you know, similarly,

similarly self-created, self-written, self-published, and that were being distributed, you know, both locally and nationally. And, you know, you'd flip open some of these magazines, and it was, it was, you know, fanzines, like Flipside from Los Angeles, which is like an incredible magazine, you know, which is an incredible magazine

that like doesn't get enough credit. Forced exposure, which was a Boston area fanzine. And these documented, you know, what was going on in art spaces, gallery spaces, small clubs, and even really big places like, you know,

the Olympic auditorium here in Los Angeles. Yeah. And, but you saw these pictures, a lot of which were done by people like Glennie Friedman or Edward Colver again. And they're, you know, they raised the performance. For me, they raised the performance stakes. They raise the performance stakes for rock and roll.

Like you would see pictures of people like, you know, HR from the bad brains doing a backflip. You would see, you know, the misfits. you know, looking, looking like, I mean, we called them punk rock kiss at the time, but they were like, they were an intimidating bunch. You would see people like, you know,

my friend Al from SSD control. You know, like sailing through the air, like, you know, his Nike, his Nike almost like, you know, kicking a kid in the face, but the guy is still like five feet off the ground. Yeah. So all of a sudden,

you know, the stakes and the stakes for rock and roll changed. And, you know, everything became hyped up and elevated. It created a different visual language. And it just sort of charged me up with a new kind of like intensity and realization, like you can do it yourself, which I think is, which I really think is something that, like, still carries forth to this day. I mean, look, the first time I met you, you guys were a band that released your own, you know,

EP yourselves. So it's an ethic that, you know, probably goes, you know, goes back to, well, you know, it's the musical and, you know, it's probably the musical and cultural equivalent of a caveman, you know, striking, two stones together and creating fire. Wow.

And it's still going on. Yeah, it is like our version of doing that, huh? Yeah, I mean, come on. Us cavemeners, I mean, it's still the same brain. I never put those two together. That is right. Wow. It's like two cavemen trying to figure things out with them,

especially, you know, we're pretty similar growing up in the hardcore scene really taught us like a subconsciously of like a deep, like, you know, do it and do it yourself. Well, and that's why I've never, I've never, you know, been one of these people to say, like, oh, it died at a certain point. Yeah. Because honestly, like, the most, you know, I'm a big believer that, you know, aside from publishing books that, you know, document the years 1983-88, I'm also a believer that, like,

the most important moment is now. Yes. And everything, everything that we've ever done leads to now. Yes. Yeah, and everything you've done throughout your whole career has led you to now, you know, to where, I mean, you've like, dude, Mike, you've, it's very rare that you've built your name to be respected amongst many different kinds of bands. And not just from one genre, you being coming from the punk and hardcore scene, came respect from a band that was clear across the country that were kids. And to be able to Kind of stamp your name in there

It's something that that that you did Back in a day that has led you to then and has led you to now It's crazy I'm a lucky passenger You know Aren't we all Exactly right Exactly

We're we're You know We all traveled A little bit of a different road than Probably our parents expected us to Well yeah Way way way different I'm sure

I'm sure your parents Stoke when they you started bringing in like misfits and you know no they they the Kennedy's the dead canadies they kind of were able to wrap their heads around the first Devo record okay they're like this is a little wacky a little postmodern yeah i'm not sure my parents talked about postmodernism yeah um but yeah the dead cadeties thing was through them for a bit of a loop yeah but i think i think what happened was that they started to meet some of my friends Oh, what was that like? Well, it was, you know, coming really positive because, again, if you're a parent, why wouldn't you want, aside from being out a little bit too late and sometimes coming home with maybe a bruise because you were, you know, you got jumped on while you were, you know, slamming.

I won't call it moshing because that happened after. That was like a New York onward thing. Oh, okay. But, you know, like, like, come on with a bruiser too because you went to. to see the bad brains or, you know, black flag or in you just, you, as a young man, you know, did your physical thing in the pit. Yeah.

Haven't done that for decades. And you came home late, you know. But aside from that, like, you know, when you come home and you introduce your parents to people who are like, you know, again, these sort of self these self-styled entrepreneurs

you know these people these people who are creating and succeeding wow even even in the most intimate of ways um

I think I think you know mom and dad get her we're just we're absolutely okay with that yeah and it's funny because I mean there's still people who have you know

were around back then, you know, like, like there was one point where the descendants were staying with me at my apartment in Boston on their first U.S. tour. Wow. And I had to go home and have dinner with my folks, and Milo came with me. And my mom still asked about Milo. And, you know, still a friend. That's awesome. You know, I was very tight with the guys in corrosion of conformists. Still am.

and you know it was it was definitely like a familial like like bit of sadness when reed passed away last year um you know so it's it becomes you know just as you know you know just the friends and the associations and all that it just becomes part it becomes part of the dialogue it becomes part of our life yeah were you bringing home like good friends you know how like even though there's like you bring home like your friends from the scene there are still good good kids though right yeah okay yeah these are these are still real good kids you know okay these are these are super like you know you know i mean we i was also lucky enough to grow up you know in in a scene you know that was were at least the the one of the overwhelming ideals was straitage yeah you know so you know which which

I think carries a lot has carried a lot of different meanings over the years. Of course. And to me it's always been about, you know, it's been about a non-conformity. It's about not buying in. It's about not having to necessarily, you know, you know, drink the, you know, drink the same beer that the, you know, people you didn't like in high school drank. you know it's about it was about being clear minded

so you could you know you could appreciate more it was about being accountable accountable for your actions so you know you sort of

you sort of had this like inherent you know this inherent morality that at least for me personally has served me really well.

You know, the joke, you know, it was always on the minor threat song, out of step, you know, Ian said, you know, this is no set of rules. Well, even if it is a set of rules, it was a pretty damn good set of rules. Yeah.

Yeah, voice, you have such a different perspective of this trade age scene because, I mean, I didn't hear about straight age to obviously, I mean, you know, high school 15, so, so we only only, get like you know we don't really get like the pure what is like the real definition of this you know so it's cool it's cool to hear your side of it yeah it's just you know you you don't you don't have to buy in huh you know and and which which to me is the essence is the essence of

punk it's the essence of hardcore it's the essence of of of you know just being being thoughtful and alive yeah yeah yeah Yeah. It's so crazy it being around you and you and you said something how how do I get off the sidelines and that's something we all kind of some consciously say huh and it's cool that you were around such an inspiring area because I mean we over here we hear about like the Boston punk and hardcore scene you know and how that you were around it you saw it but it's also a point that you saw people succeed at it at it really creating you like create your own shit and then and then do it and then succeed at it. And did that, did I help you really get, because you know, you have an idea of starting the fan scene, but was it you being around these people in scenics to see it for you, did that inspire you, okay, wait, I could do this. Now, okay, now, I'm thinking now, and I'm doing this.

We always, you know, the great thing about, like, being, coming into this scene, and I do, I do maintain that American hardcore was probably the last self-created and self-perpetuated youth culture you know that's happened in the past 50 years like I think so I mean again you know for better for worse things have moved on not that not that there are not equally valid youth cultures now

but I'm sorry I missed that I got lost what was the what was the actual question No, what, like, what really made you, like, take the band scene and getting off the sidelines from a thought to where, like, you're doing this? Oh, well, it's really simple. You know, when you get involved, especially at that point, getting involved in that culture, everyone got a job. You either, you know, were in a band. You took pictures. You put on the shows. You know, there was just this call to action.

Yeah. And just, you know, use of our, like, energy and maybe a little bit of anger. Again, to, you know, you know, to sort of to just, yeah, reshape a world that we wanted to see. Also, what it did, and I think what it still does, and again, your band is no different. It democratized art. It democratized rock and roll. It was no longer, you know, once you. you started, you know, meeting people from other bands, once you start, once people started

touring through, you know, who, be they from Fountain Valley, be they from Green Bay, be there from New York, you know, all of a sudden that barrier, that barrier between the stage and you evaporated. Yeah. And it just, it literally just became, I can do this. And there's no profit, you know, there's no profit motive. There's no like, you know, there's no profit motive. There's no like career ideal.

You just do it because you do it. Because, you know, all of a sudden you're going to have something that's your own and that's just cool. Yeah. And you're going to impact on other people. Yeah. You know, and it's funny. It's like there are, there are, and I think, I think that, you know, people in bands find this even now. You may not talk to somebody in 20 years, but the minute the conversation starts, you're back in it.

You know, you're back in it because there's this, there's this, like, almost psychic bond. Yeah. You know, I've, I tend to think of it sometimes as like young men needing the moral equivalent of war. Like, we've never had war, you know. So this, this became our, you know, our call to arms. Yeah. But, yeah, just to answer the question, like, yeah, you know, you, you jump, you, you jump into DIY culture and you, and you, you know, you, you got to, you get to, you, you get to, you, you, you jump into DIY culture. and you, you know, you get a job.

And my job became, you know, archivist and, you know, preserver of the lineage. Yeah. And then you help carry it on. And back then, you know, there was no social media. Did you expect, like... Well, no, there was social media. It was our fancings. Fancying.

Right. And that was your way. of communication to people like that across country you know how how did that communication start like how like did how did people hit hit you up because obviously there's like this open communication with the fan scenes like how I'm I'm lucky and I in you know well I can I've said this before well I consider myself as firmly second generation okay by the time I got involved you know, the roadmap was already laid out.

And that goes back, you know, that goes back way before me. I mean, it's as simple as the guys in Black Flag met the guys in DOA, and they swapped numbers and figured out places to play and established a touring circuit that, you know, now 40, 45 years later, is the roads on which every band travels. The clubs were already there The first fanzines were already there You know the record labels

That started out Because you know that started out of necessity Because nobody you know at the time like There was no there were no labels who wanted to sign these bands There was no you know So so what's what's sprung up more labels like touch and go in Detroit, like Discord in Washington, D.C., you know, labels like, you know, even exclaim in Boston, which wasn't really a label, it was more of like a stamp that local bands put on their records. But all of this happened out of necessity, you know, because nobody was interested.

And by the time I got involved, there was already, you know, there was already like an underground up and run. There was already a sizable underground up and running. So I was, and there were people you could communicate with and people you could ask how to do this. You know, I still have a very close friend to this day, a guy named Al Quint, who I think I bumped into when he was in college. and I was you know in probably just getting into high school and he had a

mimeographed fanzine remember do you know what mimeograph is I don't okay it was this it was in it was back back in you know the elder days

it was literally a means of printing involving like ink and a drum and like a hand crank okay and he had a mimiograph fanzine at first called suburban punk but the cool thing was

and this ties into a lot of stuff I was saying before. Alice from my area. So I would bump into him and it was like, it was literally like, okay, well, he showed me how easy it was to do this. So I did it. Wow. And you did it. I did it.

And I started, the first zine I did, which predates triple X, was that proverbial getting off the sidelines exercise called suburban mucus. now that lasted about three issues and it was you know it was like I look at those issues now and it's charming you know it's charming in that you see the beginning of like a musical evolution and you know going from like you know the clash and you know sandinista combat rock to discovering you know SSD control um you know you like I did that for So that was like a first effort. It was called Superbukas,

which is an incredible title. Yeah. And when that ended, you know, I was like, well, I want to continue this myself, and I can do it myself. So there was a Dead Kennedy show coming up in June of 1983, total stacked bill, right? Yeah, Dead Kennedys, Jerry's Kids, the proletariat, the freeze.

and I was like, I'm going to have that first issue of triple X, the first issue of my zine, which I would basically call triple X, because there were a whole bunch of like, you know, you'd see that symbol everywhere, X, X, X, X.X. Yeah. There was never a zine called it. Ah, good branding.

Yeah. I would have that done what was essentially going to be the fourth issue, the fourth issue of suburban mucus. I just turned it into triple X, got it done for that. that show printed up like 70, you know, like 60, 70 copies. And I had it on hand to sell at that show myself.

Whoa. And to drop on consignment in local record stores because you could do that. You know, you could bring your record or your fanzine, you know, to the local record and, you know, sell it and, you know, you would get paid if it's old. Wow. The funny thing about that Dave Kennedy show, and this is illustrated. at the very beginning of the book, is, and I didn't know this to many years later,

one of the people who bought the first issue of Triple X was Rob Zombie, who's from, you know, who's from Haverhill, Massachusetts, who was, you know, just fascinated, like, you know, again, another kid, you know, jumping on the train, you know, finding an avenue for creativity. And, you know, I would, we would later, you know, connect the dots because an early version of white zombie would be taking out ads in my fanzine for their early, you know, for their early records, which I don't know if you've ever heard them, but like, I love them.

They're like sludgy and fucked up and noisy sounding. So that, you know, just perfect example, perfect example of like this was, you know, this was really like, like almost. the cradle of our rock civilization. Yeah. I still believe that, you know, you scratch the surface on at least half of, half of like the real creative people out there now. And there's usually some punk rock lineage, you know?

Yeah. Because, I mean, think about, like, not just, you know, you know, I mean, I mean, well, think about it. It's people ranging from the chili peppers to Shepard Ferry to Rollins to, you know, God, what's his name who directed the Hangover? Oh, Todd Phillips. You know, so, like, we permeated up. And I think that people often go like, well, that was then, this is now. And my feeling is like, no, that was then and the continuum is still going.

And it's still ramping up and influencing, you know, generations to be, you know, to be experimentive, to push boundaries and to just be aggressive. You know, the one thing, when we started, when we started this book, you know, the initial idea was because I did 20 issues with the zine. The initial, yeah, which was, you know, which was more than most, and I think that's one of the reasons why people sort of still have some regard for it. Yeah. Is it outlasted many of the zines that sort of sprung up over that, over at that time. And, but once I started like, because the initial, the initial question was, like, do you just collect all the 20 issues?

Or do you start, you know, do you do something more selective, and I was like, well, let's do something more selective because nobody should have to read, you know, like a good 500 pages of my teenage writing. Yeah. Like, you know, that's just, that's a bit too much for anybody. Just kidding. And, you know, when I started noticing as I was pulling back

because I was also starting to get quotes from people I interviewed back then, is there was a timeline going on. And there was a narrative actually starting, starting up, which was one of music in motion. And if you look at, you know, if you look at this book, what you start to get over the, you know, six-year period, six-seven-year period, I did the thing,

was you had the birth of, you know, many different genres and sub-genres. Crossover, youth crew, indie rock, alternative rock, you know basically it all you know it all sort of move forth from a point of

of energy and inspiration yeah yeah yeah you have that punk rock energy which is I mean you can but you have that punk rock energy that's a thing

oh yeah like you know Jerry has that it's that yeah you do it's that it's that it's that will you know because I always jokingly I'll always jokingly say like yeah it's punk rock man and it's the energy it's the energy to go reshape the world you know a great a great example um is I was I was

listening to Derek Green's interview um a few Eric Green from Suppletour's interview a few weeks ago and you know talking about veganism and veganism which I think is an important you know, very, like, just very important, like, ethic and outlook on, on how we live our lives. Um, I got another, you know, tied back to straight edge. Yeah. Another, another ideal of being selective in, in one's own life. But, you know, a lot of the, the initial, um, impetus for that really came out of, you know, originally people who were based around the you know based around the harry Krishna temples

in new york city people like john joseph from the cromags people like um viny vinny from the unsane and later swans um who would influence guys like you know the guys in youth of today um who you know spread spread the gospel um which you know we know we know we're included various elements of like spiritualism, but also, you know, diet and having a compassionate, you know, having a compassionate diet. And if you really think about that, you know, be, in a small way, in a small way, we now have vegan meals on, you know, cross-country flights, you know. What a trip, huh? We now, right. We now, we, we now have, we now have, like 40 different kinds of

Tempe, you know, at the local Whole Foods, you know, you've got, you've got people, you know, like, Shepherd's Ferry, who I mentioned before, who were commissioned by Obama to, you know, like create artwork, you know.

So, so to me, it's a, it's been a wellspring of creativity. Yeah. Isn't that a trip that, it's funny, that you mentioned that, like, like the scene in culture that does play a role in that. Mm-hmm.

Interesting. Again, it's, it's just, you've got a lot of people, you've got a lot of very motivated, high-functioning, intelligent people who gave, who weren't given the tools. They gave themselves the tools to change the world. Yeah. And yeah, you're right, that still inspires us today. Still. Exactly.

Still, you're right. Exactly. You know, it's the thing that, like, it's the thing that gets you on stage. Yeah. You know, it's the thing, no matter what you're, you know, what you're singing about, what you're espousing, the nature of it all. I mean, look, it's, it's the reason why I, why I, when, when a band delivers a record to me. why and it's great why I'm just like okay cool

we've we've Eureka we've done it again yeah yeah and what I honestly don't know to answer this question so I'm generally

asking you what what does AAR mean and represent now because I'm sure throughout the years that that has actually changed well later on today

it will mean artists in restaurants. Yeah. But traditionally it comes from a period when when executives from a record label would bring artists together with repertoire. Repetoir being songs written by outside songwriters. And that was like people, you know, that was like the brill building model. in the 50s and 60s. Traditionally, what it means is artist and repertoire. I never knew that.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a, God, there's a couple of movies that really, a couple of, like, really good movies that go into this. But, yeah, it used to be a much more sort of, like, engaged middleman process. now you know now what it relates to is an an art person is somebody who you know identifies the artist

you know figures out what's special about them figures out what's special about their material does you know does their best in what you know in whatever way is necessary to create a environment for success. And that can be everything from like helping you choose the right producer or a great producer to bringing outside songwriters. You know, it really is, it's just depending on what the artist needs.

You know, basically find them, sign them, oversee the making of the record. and then, you know, you become jack of all trades, master of a couple, and you cheerlead and you, you know, help act as the conduit between the artist and the label when necessary. So it's, you know, it's specifically involves identifying and signing an artist, oversee the making of a record, and then you know really doing what you can to ensure that creative vision success

okay wow it's kind of a trip on how everything you learn from writing your own fan scene actually got you the respect to eventually be a official I guess you could say first you were a consultant right for a label

what happened was in this this of course ties back to, you know, ties back to meeting Rob Zambi on the steps of a, you know, VFW Hall in Waltham, Massachusetts inside a Dead Kennedy show. I was covering white Zon, there was an era, there was an era where labels would basically fly around journalists to go interview bands. Wow. So I was coming back from a trip to Los Angeles to interview my old pal's white zombie. Wow.

They're just coming out with their first record for Geffen, La Sextoracisto, Volume 1. And I bumped into a guy named Jason Flom. And Jason was the head of a, you know, Jason, who's like, to this day, he's an incredible executive. and record guy, you know, he's, he signed everything from like, twisted sister to Tori Amos to Lord, to Lord, um, the list goes on. Yeah. And, you know, I was, it was, it was a time also when, you know, in night, in September of 1991, the world changed.

And a record called Nevermind came out. and that changed you know and this is probably the last time i remember like this sort of like you know deep impact deep impact for a record um never come mine came out and changed everything so everybody who is toiling and you know the underground for 15 you know 15 years before a lot of us got cool jobs and a lot of you know this this basically the underground starts to level up and I was immersed in that

you know those were those were people I had interviewed before those were people for you know be it my zine

or magazines I had written for um you know those were people who like I had put on shows with because I was

I also booked and promoted shows in the Boston area like I did the first you know Boston appearances of bands like Voivod or the Rollins band or the descendants or creator

You know I was just seven seconds like like wow actually no I didn't do the first seven second show but I did some shows by them Um was to paradise there yet oh of course yeah really yeah the paradise was great paradise has been around since you know Certainly the early 80s if not before I never fucking knew that oh yeah I thought it was a newer club no no no paradise paradise Paradise goes back like, Carlyst goes back years. Wow, yeah, it's in the college town. Yep. Wow. So, yeah, so at that point, basically,

you know, the underground was no longer really the underground. And media and labels were suddenly pointed towards, you know, towards it. Because really, if you look at that point, that was an era where you had bands who already had spent years touring had developed audiences, had developed a sound, and a lot of these people

were primed for success. I mean, you know, again, social distortion didn't come out of nowhere. Chili peppers didn't come out of nowhere, you know? Like these were, you know, Bob Mold, who has had a fascinating career, you know, didn't come out of nowhere.

These were bands that, like, like put in the time the miles and made the creative leaps. So at that point I'm on this, I'm basically coming home for this flight, I bump into Jason, we start talking, I go super nerdy and super deep,

all the stuff I was like listening to and falling in love with at that point. And it was bands, you know, it was bands like helmet, you know, it was bands like Godflesh. A lot of the stuff that was coming out on ERAIC records at the time. and kind of by the end of the flight he's like he's like hey can i get your number i'm like yeah cool because i also knew his um his fiance at the time a woman named a woman named wendy berry

because she was the receptionist of profile records in new york which was the the the umbrella label for a label called um rock hotel and rock hotel was where the you know the cromags were signed and lea where I was signed and, you know, discharge in Murphy's Law. And, you know, so I was just like, oh, cool, you know, my friend's fiance wants my phone number, cool. I got a phone number, I got a phone call a couple days later saying, would you like to consult for us?

Flash forward a couple of months, I find myself in London with Danny Goldberg, the president of, you know, the president of Atlantic at the time. time and I think I think he was correct I'm sure I'm not 100% on his actual title but he was basically the head of Atlantic at the time

and we were trying to sign Godflesh because for some bizarre reason we thought that Godflesh was going to be the next 9 inch nails Wow no they were just going to be the next godflesh and

you know that didn't pan out a band I did bring to them called Jobox. Jobbox, who I had known and known of because the singer-gat-gat-player, a guy named Jay Robbins, was the bass player in a band called

Government Issue from Washington, D.C. And I had known Jay for, you know, forever. And jaw-box were one of these bands that they took the heaviness of bands like Helmet. And, you know, but also brought together, or even like the dynamics of a band like Fugazi, and brought it together with a sense of songsmanship

that made them truly unique. And, you know, again, those, the two records I worked on with them, well, flash forward, eventually I got a job. You know, eventually they said like, hey kid, since you're here so much, just take that office down the hall. We'll work out all the paperwork. Wow.

And that was 1993. Happened quick. Yeah, I guess, you know, I kind of knew what I was talking about. And it's been a pretty amazing journey since. Yeah. So you signed Jawbox? Yep. First band I signed was Jawbox.

Wow. Second band I signed was a little band called Bad Religion. Wow. They had been, they had their own label. um epitaph records which was you know not just not just like growing but like exploding at the time and one of the things that was keeping epitaph from like really going to the next level and you know having the successes they would ultimately have with bands like the offspring and pennywise and rancid um was that the you know the the owner the head label breck gerwitz

was the guitar player in Bad Religion. And Bad Religion was like, Bad Religion almost had to leave the label at the time to allow the label to focus on these other bands. And, you know, some, you know, a lot of whom, you know, no effects as well, a lot of whom just not just got big, but exploded and sold millions of records. Wow.

So it was sort of like, you know, you pull out that one, toothpick and everything you know came like tumbling down in like a magnificent way Wow Ultimately by the way The band you know returned Return to Epitaph

Yes After their after they're running atlantic records But yeah they were they were the second band I signed I always love that band I still you know Still love everything they've done Including their

um 1980 83 record into the unknown, which is like the weird Stalinized piece of their existence. Yeah. Which is a bunch of, which basically in my mind is like a bunch of 17-year-olds reaching way beyond their, their, like, trying to, like, reaching way beyond their abilities and, and experiences,

and like trying to, you know, be like, you know, they were all prog rock. You know, some of those guys were prog rock fans. So you have these like 17-year-olds trying to like make a, make a Kansas record or a Rush record. And it's met, and some of those songs are great, by the way. Like, take away the keyboards and they sound like bad religion songs. Anyway, I'm a big fan. And I was lucky enough to get involved with them at a time when they needed to go to a major label.

you know it was it was also it was also part of the you know kind of the post post green day well actually no it wasn't post green day um that was sort of happening along along the same lines but anyway they uh yeah i was i was lucky enough to you know sort of happen into them and and you know there were some friendship there were some old friendships there and re you know get reacquainted around the time that they needed to go elsewhere what what a time could say i mean you already had a relationship with them and then they signed you a major and then they dropped that record their first gold record I mean the record stranger than fiction we licensed a record before called Recipe for Hate which is also another incredible record

but yeah I mean they made timing yeah incredible they made Stranger Than Fiction which went on to be their first gold record which you know I you know if you compare them to like some of the bands they had come out around them, be it, you know, they were a little faster, you know, a little more lyrically, like, dense, and, you know, there was a lot, there was a lot weightier. You know, they questioned, you know, the beautiful thing about some of those, those bad religion songs, you know, both Greg and Brett's, both Greg, they're the Lenin McCartney of Punk.

there's there's deep probing you know self-analytical spiritual like these these incredible questions are asking themselves in those songs yeah um so i was you know i was you know i'm still honored to have been had had my toe in that legacy um the next record brett left basically focused on running epitaph enter my old friend Brian Baker who was the guitar player in minor threat

and Dagnasty and you know a zillion other bands and is still you know still a very good still a very good friend still a member

of bad religion and he was you know he was on the next record they did which was a record called The Grey Race produced by

Rick O'Kasek of the Cars and it was you know again I feel like I have sometimes this like Zellig-like I won't say Forrest Gump but I'll say Zellig

There you go Like career where I've had My If not my thumbprint At least my My nose Among a few

You know I've been able to stand on the shoulders Of some giants And you know It's just little things like that Along the way You just go like man You were there dude

I was, I wouldn't say I was there. I was, I was around. I was hanging around. In the same way I've been hanging around since I was, you know, 13 years old. Yeah. From the sounds of that, it's like you got to that spot

and you were around just by being genuine and generally loving what, what you were doing. That's a thing, man. It's like, you know, I love music you know

I love creative people I I love I love a lot of the same things that I loved you know as a child and I love a lot

a lot of different things as well but there's a common thread of just of just like severe like undeniable honesty

that when is spoken in art is just undeniable and you run to it. Yeah. Especially in music. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's you know that's kind of been

that's been the gig. Yeah. Fast forward to 97. How did Roadrunner come in a picture? And it seemed like you getting... I got fired.

Really? I got fired from Atlantic, yeah. Wow. But that's okay, because that's what happens. Especially at a major label. I mean, you've got to remember, like, it's still a business. And major labels are, you know, function to sell and move a lot of product and a lot of music. Now, at the time, I came in as part of one, you know, one musical wave.

I also happened to have five different bosses there. So I was able to sort of survive the climate there, you know, for a good five years. What was, you know, what had happened was I knew the Roadrunner people. We all went to the same gigs. Yeah, because it was a tight-knit community anyway, you know, especially in New York at that time. you had you know it was a time where you could

go from God there'd be a show at 8 o'clock at the cat club Maybe catch something at 10 o'clock at brownies You know Head over the CBGBs Um For 12 o'clock

You know Three shows in a day? You would Well I mean these these places were all You know We're all walking distance of each other. So we all knew each other and we all hung with each other and it was New York and it was like, I mean, it was sort of the end of like the great, you know, that great New York scene. Yeah. Or that great like New York vibe. Yeah. Um, or like, you know, I had carried over from like the 70s, 80s into the 90s. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we all, we all knew each other and I had known Monty Connor and, and, and, you know, and been friends with. We were. We all knew each other. And, and I had known Monti Connor. Conner and, and, and, and, and, you know, and been friends with. with him since, you know, I was a journalist.

And there was a point where the A&R got, an A&R guy named Howie Abrams was going off into the public, was going off to work, I believe, in the publishing realm. And they needed somebody who was, who could, you know, work on, work on records, who also was coming a little bit, you know, not strictly from the metal background, who had a metal background, but, you know, it wasn't strictly from there and could make other kinds of records.

And that's kind of how it happened. There was an opening. You know, Monty had me interview with Case Wessels, who was the owner of the company. And there was a 12-year run there that, you know, was, I think, incredibly successful. Yeah. I mean, again, timing. Man, what a cool time to be a part of that label.

It was an incredible moment because, you know, I mean, everything leads to everything else. You know, there's no luck. It's just preparation meets opportunity. But yeah, that was a moment when, because I think the case is designed for the label had always been. to have a globally successful company. And it had evolved from, you know, from its beginnings of licensing other, you know, other labels in Europe to, you know, having its own repertoire, you know,

basically signing its own repertoire, which, you know, one of the most, you know, significant early ones was, of course, Kane Diamond. You know, Monty really, you know, again, as a fan, as a kid in love with music, you know, discovered, like, a scene in, you know, a scene in Florida, a scene in Brooklyn, you know, like, he was tied into the underground as well. And there was a sense of underground development, which also yielded, you know, some significant artists, including obituary, deicide, carniv, you know, carnivore who were signed before. for Monty, but he was involved

with them, and then that blossom, you know, for Pete Steele, that blossomed into typo-negative. Wow. But at that point, Roadrunner was about to, you know, sort of, you know, go around the bend.

And Case was starting to parlay some of that success into a next step. And that next step featured, you know, that next step wasn't just, you know, records that came from the street. There were records that were starting to happen at radio. And there were some experimentation.

You also had success stories, you know, like a gold typo-negative record, a gold Fear Factory record. Yeah. You know, the successful machine head. The global success of Sepulura. you had this like you had this like sort of wave of things that were that was that was cresting

and the next logical step was okay how do we take this and get you know and take it higher how do we take how do we get more gold how do we get to platinum wow and of course

you know in walks nine you know nine dudes, innocently, you know, walks in nine dudes from Iowa called Slipknot. And that was a, you know, that became just a phenomenon unto itself. Again, you know, Monty, who is a, you know, tremendous and should be celebrated, you know, A&R guy, heard something, particularly on the demos that Ross Robinson had done with the band. Yeah. and, you know, pushed, you know, push the label to do a deal with Slipknot, which turned, you know, which went from gold to platinum to being, the label being acquired by, you know, by Island when Lear Cohen was there.

and they bought slip knot and they got nickel back oh that's how that happened that yeah and and and and that was just that was just the watershed moment that allowed everything to happen that allowed for um you know that that allowed us to invest deeper that allowed us to sign more expensive that allowed us to have other successes. And, you know, for me, I just sort of always, you know, I've learned, you know, just stick to your guns and you'll be okay. But I was able to sign, you know, I was able to sign and have landmark records with Megadeth, who, you know, whose first roadrunner record, I think, you know, was the record where they went back into arenas. OPEF who, you know,

I'm blessed to have blessed to have worked with you. How do you NAR an OPEC record? Get the fuck out of the way. And go to Sweden, listen to the record and say, oh my God, it's amazing and be thankful that your name is in the liner nose. You know, a Grammy-nominated cradle of filth record.

Yeah. But, you know, a band from Western Massachusetts, you know, close to my old stomping grounds, called Kill Switch Engage, which was just a little band, you know, which was a little band at the time.

And they, you know, I had heard their, we had a guy working in the office named Carl Severson. Carl ran a label at the time called Ferret. Oh, okay. Okay.

Now Carl was, you know, basically, running social, I think he was running social media at a very early stage. But he was, you know, he was certainly generous

about showing music around and encouraging possible signings. He wasn't giving me his whole label, but there'd be occasional thing, he'll be like, check this out, dude. Kill Switch for me was like this, you know, and this was coming out of, this was coming

off of the back of new metal. You know, there was sort of a return to the riff, like, like combined with things I loved about bands like carcass plus, you know, almost like a crow magsy sense of intensity.

Plus this sort of like very, you know, Jesse, who was the singer at the time, having this very sort of like emotional and emotive vocal presence. And I was like, this is amazing. And the songs were great. You know, file under, by the way, for the long term, file under,

he who has the best songs wins, or at least has the ability to win. And I went, you know, I wanted to sign them. I played it in a meeting. And, you know, those meetings could be, those early A&R meetings could be rough. How do you? How are those meetings? You'll only hear about. him. It was a it was there there there were two hours that tried a man's soul.

No, I mean they could be I mean it really depended you know what was on case's mind what was going on with the company at the time. Yeah. And you know there were meetings that were fun. There were meetings that were combative. You know, but the one thing that I mean the one thing I will always you know, credit case with was he pushed us to give our best and he challenged us and he really you know even even though he was you know he wasn't a metal guy you know he loved classical music he loved opera but he had an innate sense of great of great music of great rock and roll and And I think he really, he was like the linchpin that pushed us that little, that little step further. And, you know, that's why there's, he pushed us for excellence. And we, you know, and again, there's lessons that hopefully I carry with me to this day that were learned in those meetings.

But some of them were rough. when I played a song called Tempo from the Within by Kill Switch it was just the lights went on and it was like this is great and we were able I spent some time with the band they were still developing they were still developing as a band you know they're still developing as a live

band at that point Adam was still playing drums you know there was only one guitar player you know the most seasoned member of the band at the time was was mike uh who had you know been in overcast and but you know when when when they got out of the studio on the library just breathing record it was it was that the record itself is kind of a revelation you know that that that was that was a record that i think changed things um again great songs great emotion great truth to that record and um I think when people heard that record, you know, when people heard that record, the metal community heard that record, it was like, oh, we've kind of hit, you know, critical mass on, you know, what came forth from the first corn record.

And this is, this is a tastier, you know, this is a tastier meal. enter the new wave of American heavy metal and you know and there were precursors obviously like you know hate breed certainly so you know that that was like I said that was a kind of on this landmark moments and because of the success of Nickelback

the company was able to invest and then when it got to a point where there was a singer change and the music became even more, you know, commercially viable. You know, and we're big, you know, Howard Jones bringing with him enormous melodies. All of a sudden, we had not just a great metal band, but a metal-influenced rock band. and you know several hundred thousand records worldwide and two gold records later

it was it was a stunning success and that band still has you know with Jesse back in the band now still has an incredible career yeah I mean that's beyond solidifying your whole career yeah great songs great great albums

but that's also that's also not to negate other great records, you know? Like, they're always the ones that just don't connect. You know, I can tell you, like, you know, bands like still remains. Um, the agony scene. Um, I put on, you know,

I put on a record the other day by a band I worked on called, um, Red Tape. Okay. Which is kind of like the foo fighters meet black flag, meet like, interesting. Something, something gnarly. And, you know,

like, we all, we all, don't bat, you know, we all don't bat 100, or whatever it is. It's impossible. No, but, and, and, but I think the important, I think the important thing is

the real measure of success is, is the art good, you know, is, is it, I mean, obviously, yes, if, if, if, if it sells or streams and people connect to it, hell yeah, but I'm, I'm still a believer that, like,

you can't get hurt by a great record. Yeah. You know, and, and again, you know, there's, there's million, there's, and unfortunately, you know, there are millions of, of, of, of, of, of, of,

of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, that never get heard. Or for one reason or another, don't, you know, don't line up or don't have the song. But the thing, I, you know, the thing that, like, still gets me off is, I thought I can put on, you know,

any record from my career, where if I can put on any record from my career where it's it and go like this is great then then I feel a sense of mission accomplished you know

yeah um because the rest is the rest you know no matter how hard we work on it the rest is for for you know the public to decide and you know and if

Of course, there's those records you just go, like, okay, that was a, that was a disaster, you know. And they're the records that we learned from as well. Yeah. I mean, I'm fortunate and blessed enough to have had a career that's allowed me to do, that's allowed me to have that luxury. Yeah, you have, you have the experience. Yeah. You know, and you've seen like ups and down from many bands and, you know, what, what's something that,

that you've seen that that has that has everything kind of line up to where like where where where with a band has the great songs and albums and then it it connects on like a big on a bigger scale what is there something that that you've seen that that they did differently or um that i've been involved with or just just in general uh that that you were involved with Let's say it with the Kill Switch. Kill Switch was a great example. Kill Switch was probably like one of the biggest examples of that. You know, I mean, I also have been lucky enough to be working with body count.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, I've worked on two records with, A&R and two records with them. And, you know, the song, I mean, it also, you know, obviously there's an enormous personality in ICE tea. Mm-hmm. But if the music wasn't great, you know, it would be, it would be, you know, a celebrity project. It's not. You know, they're a great band.

So, I mean, the first record I hopped on with them was a record called Bloodlust. And, you know, every song on that record is fantastic. The process of making that record was actually, you know, pretty fun. There was a moment. I remember I had met with ICE and the producer Will Putney. Nice. And I was talking, you know, I was talking to ICE afterwards and I said to him, hey, thank you for hearing me out. There was a couple things I brought up.

And I say, you know, thank you for hearing me out. And he looks at me, he goes, hey my first record. I go, that's an example of an artist that just understands. You know, and truly like, you know, a magnificent, person, you know, a magnificent, like, creative mind to bask, you know, to bask in the glow of. Yeah. Then the next record,

a record called Carnivore, got Grammy. You got a Grammy. They won't a Grammy. They got the Grammy. They got the Grammy. They got the Grammy getter. Grammys, right. Well, yeah, it's funny. It's like, by the way, I didn't win it, okay? Don't say, like, you want a Grammy.

That's absurd. That's crazy talk. But what, But what's it like to be like a part of that though? It's gratifying. I'll sum it up. There was a very funny moment where I was actually doing another podcast at the time. And it was a live podcast.

And somebody rang in, you know, somebody rang in, hey, body, body count. bum rush just won the Grammy. Wow. And, you know, you could, I was just like, whoo, you know, awesome. Shit. Fantastic. Let's, you know, let's go out for an expensive vegan meal. You know, cool.

Fucking get her. And then, and then you go, and it was funny because I was talking to the, you know, a member of the band later on. Mm-hmm. and he's like we're both like this is amazing this is amazing this is amazing okay what's next that's the way you got it you got to do it man so crazy it's good and and that you know and that's really the lesson of all of this it's like okay what's next what do we do next how do we take the energy you know and the enthusiasm and the love you know for what we do that like from for me goes back to you know being being a child and

and putting together my first fancy um that's that's where you take that and and you funnel it into through you know the years through the experiences um through the successes um through the successes and the failures and the half successes and the half failures and, you know, things that went right because a lot of things went right.

And that's where hopefully you apply the lessons again. Yeah. And knowing you for, I know you for a while. And you've never been a person that sits in a current success that you have.

I mean, we met 2004. I want to say, you already had success with obviously with with with with bagelagian and now at that time period it was kill switch but the very your mindset was what's next and then and then you

met us and you're always looking for new bands well because at the time at the time you know and I still believe this about you guys you came out I mean you were definitely evolving

certain sounds you know into the present. At that point it was like, oh, okay, here's a band sort of mushing together, you know, converge and suffocation with a young intensity, some cool songs, you know, and a monster frontman. I mean, like, like the one thing that you can't take away from that period of the band, and certainly that, you know, certainly the record that became the cleansing, is, that was just a moment, that was one of those divine moments where the, you know, the five of you, you know, in that combination at that time were, were not just unbeatable, but important.

You know, and obviously you created something that carries forth like an incredible amount of, a credible amount of like credibility and importance. But yeah, I just, you know, to me, you know, you guys were the, were the birth of something new. I mean, we're sitting, but it, but it makes so much sense because we're, you know, you guys came off of the back of new metal, hardcore metal, death metal, grind, you know, and, and, and, you know, and, you guys came off of the back of new metal, and, you know, and. And you channeled it in a way that, you know, you took the boredom of living, of coming from Riverside, you know, because all good punk, because we'll just call everything punk, you know, also, like, is just an attack on boredom.

You took that and channeled it into something that was just, you know, that was, you know, that was, a lynch pin for a new scene to happen yeah i agree you know and um i don't i mean i i still love like i still love music i still love i still love i still love seeing you know that that period and you know period where where bands can be that unbeatable um i think it's again it's like it's just like divine you know that divine moment where everybody there exudes greatness I also find it very interesting when you can, you know, find, find a long, long running band and hear a great new record from them.

I still love that, too. So when, you know, nothing, I get, I get, I get, I get, I get, when a new band crosses my desk or somebody, you know, turns me onto something where I'm just like, fuck, you know, this is great. like we were playing you know i was playing those those two bands for you you know frozen soul and sang with sugebog yeah and again like both those bands are are taking you know one um frozen souls from dallas sangucus bogs from ohio and taking all those influences and channeling them you know in their own like like like amazing you know cavemanic way the caveman way love it The caveman way.

Yeah. You know, fuck the homo erectus. Let's get Neanderthal on this shit. Yeah. Climal as fuck. You know, but yeah, when you hear those, when you hear those demos or you hear those first EPs,

it's just like, yes. Love that sound. Yeah, you know, or when, you know, like a lot, I'm just thinking of other bands I'm working with right now. I just finished up a record with a band called a Wilderun

who are a progressive you know basically a progressive metal band from from Massachusetts and you know

I heard what was ultimately what I believe was their fourth album was their third album sorry I think

what it was maybe it was there was there I'm blanking on whether it was third or fourth but it was magnificent

and and And intricate and the playing was spellbinding. And, you know, that was, we ultimately signed them. I'm waiting with bated breath to hear the first songs, the first songs from the new Venom prison record. Oh, cool. Who are banned, like I've seen, you know, I've seen live before. I followed them in the press over the course of the first two records.

they really set, you know, actually first three records, they set up both musical and lyrical and cultural agenda for themselves that I think is set to explode. You know, God, what else? I just got Ruffs back from a band called Oceans of Slumber, who are a band that's actually been on Century Media for a while.

Cool. They've made three, three, great records before and they opted to go into a direction that was progressive but embraced other other sounds and ideas and you know there's elements of like americana on this new record there's elements there's elements of doom there's element you know there's this the singer in that band's like soulful and like has this just this voice that rips your heart out And, you know, to me, be it watching a band evolve or discovering something, you know, at sort of either jumping on at a point where things are about to get really hectic and really fun, or, you know, being there for the early days or, you know, seeing some, seeing an artist, you know, reinvent themselves, not reinvent themselves, but like, Like, you know, continue to make, make the best records of their career.

Those are, those are some of the best experiences, you know, those are some of the best experiences that me as an A&R person coming from the place that I came from originally could humanly ask for. Yeah. Yeah, you, you lived it. What's his past tense shit? It's still, no, you still lived it. You're living it.

With an experience, now things are still happening. Well, do I have a choice? We don't. Oh, our choice is to do that or I think be lazy, right? And laziness, you know, I've been able, you know, at 55 years old, I've been able to establish, you know, a life that I'm very happy with. And, you know, there's things you give up along the way, but there's things that you get along the way.

Very true. And, you know, I want to keep, I want to keep this story alive. Well, we should keep it alive with some pizza, right? Yes. I think it's time for, uh, for our lunch. I think it is time. It's time. It is time for the lunch, faithful fans.

To be continued. All right. Mike Gitter, it was, it was honored to have you. Thank you for making a drive. And thank you for your friendship. for many years and always believing in us. Well, it was so funny. Like, we were on that call recently.

And I think somebody said, didn't you sign us at some point? Yeah. And I walked out of that call just going, like, that was the funniest thing. And that was the truest thing. Because, you know, again, you know, as a fan, you've made, you know,

as a fan, like you've enriched my life, both musically and as people. And that's, that's the best we can ask for. It is. You know, that's the best we can ask for. So, you know, let the story continue to roll. That's what's up. And it's, it's rolling. True that.

True that. Well, where can people find you? Where can people find me? Yeah. Let me see. Instagram, the Gitter. Instagram Triple X Fanzing

Cool Under you know my name at Facebook by drone or aerial reconnaissance

somewhere in the Culver City area Nice and usually usually where the action is happening and the rock is hot

that's where you can find me beautiful my kidders God, did I just say that? Appreciate it. No, it was great. Thank you, sir. Mike Gitter, I'm an honor, dude.

All right, everyone, that's it. Later. Late!