Garza Podcast - 240 - VCTMS: Metalcore, Addiction, Cystic Fibrosis & Leaving Bad Relationships

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

Garza sits down in-person with Illinois-based metalcore band VCTMS. Their new album "Pain Processing II” out now! https://instagram.com/vctmsilCheck out the merch here: https://garzapodcast.myshopify.com00:00 - Favorite Drinks01:21 - Meredith Plays Every Instrument03:17 - “Clip My Wings,” Trauma06:27 - Meredith Writing Lyrics08:12 - Processing Pain, Anger10:14 - John Doesn't Get Mad12:35 - John’s Favorite Pokemon15:47 - Power Rangers, Buckethead Myth19:19 - Decade-Plus Journey24:45 - ‘Vol. IV Numb the Ache’26:07 - Breakups, Bad Relationships30:53 - Addiction, Substances35:31 - Walking Away From Bad Relationships45:27 - Streamwood & Cook County, Illinois46:16 - Writing Music Together53:32 - Difficulty of Choosing Singles57:14 - Drumming with Broken Ankle58:44 - Drumming with C.F. (Cystic Fibrosis)1:05:36 - New Found Glory1:07:04 - John Leaving College to Tour1:09:52 - Touring in Early Days1:12:48 - Gear Used on “Pain Processing II”1:18:14 - Working at Sam Ash1:20:57 - Being Genuine, Heartfelt, Relatable1:28:27 - Music To Check Out1:36:43 - New E.P. & Tours

We just dropped some new merch. We got a chug shirt, a pizza shirt, even a hot heat shirt, like the one currently on my body. Head over to garsapodcast.myshopify.com. That's garsapodcast.myshopify.com or click the link below. Love you guys. Should we pop in? Yeah, I'm ready. Jay, how are we doing?

I know your favorite drink is White Claw, right? Mine, no. It's not White Claw, Lemon? No. Oh, lemon, yes. Wait, how'd you know? I just guessed. Oh, you just guessed?

He's got sources. No, you know. White Claw lemon is my favorite white claw. Oh. But my favorite drink of all time. You know, it's just vodka. Just Tito's, that's it. Feed me Titos and.

And whatever mixer you got. Preferably Red Bull. It was Red Bull, but I had to stop taking Red Bull. So I haven't read, I've been red bull clean for over. Okay. O.G. Red Bull. I'm off. The tropical.

I'm off the bowl. Victims is big time. Holy crap. Oh, yeah, well, we have victims here in Santa Ana. Ooh. Pleasure. Oh, look, and they have all the white cloth flavors. Oh, my gosh.

This is like, this is a present. If you're just listening, we have the guitar player, Mike here, singer John, and Meredith. Sick-ass drummer. Oh, I was going to say, I don't have, I can be. an enigma. I don't have to be anything. You're not, yeah. I learned that what? Sang, you played bass, correct? Yeah, I gaslit everybody into thinking

I played bass. Oh. Well, there's my first fuck up. Cool. No, I can play bass, but I filled in for two songs for bolt clutter on that varial store. Okay. But it was like, tracked.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Everyone's like, this is so sick. I'm like, I'm a professional. professional gas lighter. I think it counts. It counts. I didn't, it was like two minutes before we go on. They're like,

I'm married if you're doing two songs. They picked seven of us to do it. But then some of my friend Sam went to get drinks. And I listened to the song like 30 seconds. And I'm like, d-d-dun-d-d-d-d-30 seconds? It's one-three-five. You're rolling one.

Come on, all these slam. One-three-five. Then-de-open one-three-five. Yeah. Oh, you just go to suicide songs break down. I got it. And I'm like, all right, guys. Put me in.

And then, like, I was just, dun dun, do, I don't know. It was a good time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did, like, a guest spot on a live show. And, like, I wasn't stressing too hard because I knew when I was playing wasn't going out in the PA. Yeah.

And I won't say who it was. I know I'm not playing that good, but out there it sounds sick. Yeah, so it's like, oh, that's true. Yeah, to the crowd. You're just absolutely killing it. Anyway, the crowd doesn't care. They're like, he's killing it. Yeah, they.

Yeah, people hear something different. different than you. Yeah. And you're like, I'm not on ears. I'm rolling. Yeah, we're just out here. Let's just,

the last song I was jamming for me guys was clip my wings. Nice. And I heard you talk about how that was a dark time in your life, correct? Yeah, like,

I only wrote this song instrumentally, but like when I was writing it, like, I'll admit, the last like year or so. Yeah. It's been kind of like rough city a little bit. Like, you know.

What's going on? Just, you know, uh, unfortunately, uh, you know, I had a marriage that ended. I had, I'm sorry, man. Oh, it's okay. How long, how long we, we got married? Oh, we were together for about two years, like, married. But then we were together for like five. Wow.

So like, you know, we were. That's tough, man. We're a big part of each other's lives, but, you know, it was a very amicable split, I will say. Like, we're still very close. We just both kind of realize, you know, this isn't. We both want very different things in life. Like, because we met during like the pandemic. Oh, where?

We actually, we met on Tinder. Yeah. Yeah. The one, yeah. It was great, you know, but and it was at a point in my life where I didn't think I was gonna play music again. Really? Yeah, like, you know, with everything that happened and like where I was like currently

in, you know, my life, I was like, all right, that's cool. I don't need to play show. anymore that's fine I'll just uh you know I'll just work on like producing I'll like you know and I'll work a fucking job at at home at a restaurant or something until that takes off. But then I remember like it was right before shows came back like in summer of 21. Meredith actually like called me while I was at work and she was like, hey, we're doing a tour in the fall and we need a guitar player. Like do you want to do it?

And I was like, yeah, I do. Like, yeah, I really wanted, yeah, I was like, it's, you know, I feel like if it's in you, you just no matter what you come back to it. Like, so, you know, that was the start of that. And then, you know, it turns out, you know, we both just wanted to do different things. Like, you know. So you really, it sounds like you channeled something, channeling some good. You can't beat heartbreak. No, definitely not.

You can't be heartbreak, man. I'm very happy with, you know, the results of like, you know, that like, sadness and grief and you know everything it turns into something that it's like like i love that song that's definitely like easily my favorite song like we as a band have like you know created i think it's amazing that's great yeah something about the uh finding like the real life emotion and then being able to translate that into the into the the music is you know it's so much more fulfilling i feel oh totally yeah yeah especially especially for mike's case since it's you know very deep rooted, I guess.

It actually happened. Yeah, it actually happened. Yeah. Sometimes I'll just relive trauma to like in like a different headspace. Yeah. Me. Every time I go to write the record,

I was like, well, time to indulge in all my trauma. Yeah, I didn't know like you. So you're like the main lyric writer, correct? Yeah. Okay. So I've been writing it all, since I was like 14.

Like I was like wrote lyrics and stuff and like poetry things of that nature. Yeah and like I guess that was kind of why the reason like victims even was a thing is because I really wanted to understand myself in the depth that I wasn't willing to reach like with other people, you know? And it's very hard for me to be vulnerable outside of like just writing something down, you know? Yeah. And like through the years like you know, I was like suicidal as like a teenager and stuff like that and like just figuring myself out who I am as like a person and like figuring out what I want to do and like things with my condition and and all these different things like just going into one like facet. So it's just kind of like this was the outlet that I got to use to write. So throughout the years like it was very like jarring at first of like oh I'm suicidal. You know and then over the years I try to do more metaphors and throw things in to like not make it so like blatantly obviously like oh yeah I want to die. know. I'm gonna kill myself. Yeah, like, I'm ready. Let me like, let's make him think a little bit.

Exactly. It's like, oh, the metaphors are good. I've done that too. It's like, a little bit too straightforward. Yeah, and you're like, this is kind of corny, but like at the time, you know, I was young. I think our first release came out or was written when I was like 17. So, I mean, I'm 29. So this is a very different age gap, you know, through the years and just the things that you go through. And I thought life was hard. They just said, just kidding. Oh, yeah. Hence, so this comes out in July, so the record's already out, came out May 1st, pain processing too.

Yeah. So yeah, it's, it makes sense. I'm always, you got to process pain again. Yeah, and then it's like pain again. Wait, was it pain restored? What was the final? Pain fully processed. Oh, yeah.

It's like, all right, the deluxe pain. Fully processed. Do you think that's even possible, though? No. It's a whole process? No, you'll never fully process anything that you've processed. It brings you back in. Something else is on its way.

Dude, that pisses me off. Like, it's like when I fix something, another thing pops up. It's like, this is, I think this is what life is. It's like, man, it sucks. It's what you deal with the suffering. It's how you deal with it, I think. I think we're all, we all can suffer in forms, but it's just how you go about. using that to either strength or weakness, I think.

And it's either going to come out because you want to or you're going to let yourself drown. Oh, yeah. That's just my envisionment of it. I'm like, there's so many things that, like, when things got hard, you could, like, I wanted to give up and stuff. But I think, like, the best thing is when you spite anything,

like a person, your situation at the time, anything, When you spite it, you use anger and you kind of come out of it. That's my way of, like, growing. Because it's like people say that, oh, you got to be happy and not to be angry about things. But anger is the only reason why I'm still here. Spiting something. Spight is a powerful emotion. And it's a good band.

But, you know. Yeah, when you could channel anger, there's just something to it, you know. As long as it's not. directed at other people it's used as a tool to grow and like push totally it's helpful at least in my experience yeah i was listening to i saw you guys at uh chair reaction you know something was something with john's boys like he says sounds fucking mad and he's like the happiest like the happiest like absolutely nothing phases me i won't say nothing but i know he's he's the most level-headed person i think i know in our

John definitely has the longest fuse out of all us. He has no fuse at all. Like, I've seen John mad like maybe three times and I've known him like 13 years. How do you do that? I don't know. That's not very helpful. How do I do it? I just let things roll off my back really fast.

Or it's a, I have a. It's the weed. It's the weed. That too. That too. I mean, knowing you for as long as I did, I've learned to everything. Oh, yeah. Just let me head.

Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, because you could probably tell him, hey, do you have CF? And shut up. Oh, yeah. No, I don't use that card. It's mostly. I would. No, no, no.

It's a terrible vice. Bad advice. No, but it's mostly like, it's like, are you fucking serious? And like something about like it's just some of the craziest things will happen on the road. And I'm like, why do you think of things that way? And then John's like, oh, it's okay. She's like really mad right now, but give it five, ten minutes. She'll be fine.

So like he just puts up this like wall of like no emotion. He's like, okay, Meredith. Yeah. You need at least one person around you that's like level headache. It's like kind of like a kind of like stone face too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's probably a mix of the weed and like the undiagnosed ADHD and the, what is it? Like the, I guess like the emotional irregularity of ADHD and not, it takes a minute for me to process things. Like if somebody's angry, I'm like, why? Why? Why? Why are we angry? And then 30 minutes later, I'm like, why were we angry? I still don't understand

I still don't understand Maybe Maybe the Gen 3 Pokemon makes you just There we go Level header right That's your favorite Genova

Pokemon right I think it's a favorite Is your favorite flag on? I do like Flaggon But no it's not For All time favorite Pokemon is Mu2 That's who I'm trying to

My collection is growing I'm trying to collect It's much Mu-to as I can. But my favorite Pokemon of like in Gen 3

which is my favorite generation would be the Dust Skull line. I like Duskall Dustclops. Cool,

cute little ghost Pokemon. I love it. There's a little guys. It's just little guys. Though I will say Flygon was in my team a lot because

learning an earthquake on that guy is It is amazing. No, just like learning earthquake. It's like We're going back to the fucking

Games of Was it? I'll talk about it. I'll talk about it all. I know. I know. I was there. What is it about the Gen 3 that you like? I would probably have to say it's mainly Probably just like the nostalgia behind it all. Oh.

Because they're at nine right now or something? Ten? It's like 10 or 11. Okay. Something like that, yeah. Yeah. I spent like the most time on Generation 3, like Ruby and Sapphire and Emerald. Like through most of like middle school, I was playing that and another game called Advanced Wars.

But yeah, I grinded that game. I, you know, that was the first time I ever saw a shiny Pokemon. like in game and I'm like whoa that's cool catching requazo was awesome that was a hard hard battle but yeah I mean it's there's the world I feel in gen 3 like was very expensive

a little bit immersive that it had kind of like a cool story like guiding your way through it you know this is how they would describe Pokemon in a book this is you. You're so invested. You're like, this is the synopsis of Gen 3. And when the Gen 3 come out?

It was like 2003. Yeah. Okay. And how old were you then? Yeah. He's like, how old am I now? Yeah, how old am I now? When was I born?

Who am I really? Look at that. What been am I in? Yeah, where are we? 2002, 2002, 2003. Fine. Yeah. All right.

John count. What year were you born, 93? 10. Japan was 02 and North America Europe was 03. And you don't know how old you were that? 10. According to my calculations, I was born in 93. Okay. So that explains why you let the air out because you connected to your childhood. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was like that with the Power Rangers.

Yeah. I got first gen, so I don't like to hate because whoever, by instance it now, whatever generation it is now, who knows. But that's their first time. That's their first gen. And that's their Gen 3. Yeah, yeah. But that first, fucking series of Power Rangers, it was sexy.

We listened to all the Power Rangers' like intros, like up until like it was a little past Wild Force, which I don't know what year that was. But we listened to all of them. And still the original Mighty Morphing, that's the best, like, that's the best one. But my second favorite has to be in space. So it's like Power Rangers. Well, the light speed rescues get too. That's the first one that I was actually about to sing. But it's like, what was the Power Rangers in space?

That's like five. Oh, in control to outer space now. Flying higher than ever before Rangers in space. Go Power Rangers. go fire rangers go fire rangers go fire rangers go go fly here it is yeah trolls too okay oh christopher doesn't he's like gen like three or four wait this part when he goes in space oh okay and it's like go go go fly wow that's sick we're deep into this we are deep into this yeah no we listen it was like

The ultimate goal for victims is to write the next Power Rangers song. Yes. Yes. How do you do those solos? Those, that first one has like this. Oh, yeah. I try to play. I'm like, I'm not,

they're analoging their future dragon force. I'm gonna let's go to a victim song that's kill myself. I can't fucking do that solo. I think it was, what was a bucket head? Was it? Doing like the, he did,

yeah, Buckethead did do. I want to say Buckethead did the first, first, Oh, Ross. Oh, Ron Wasserman. Oh, okay. Eddie Van Halen, yeah. Right, oh. Composer were always, was that Buckethead?

Tim Pierce. Okay. Where did I think Buckethead? I think Buckethead did a, I feel like it was in guitar here too for sure as well. Oh, bucket. Yeah. I know what you're talking about because I've, I've heard that too. I think there was like a.

Oh, it's a myth. It's a famous internet myth and I got mythed. I may be. Damn. Maybe. That's what it is. No, but I feel like I remember. Oh, limewar.

God. Oh, I'm talking about limewire. They fucking mislabeled it. Okay. It's making sense, no. So I'm like, I'm not that crazy? See, they were professional gaslighters right there. This is a title.

This is the job title. I got gasolided before gaslighting was. Right. Popular. Dang, yeah. That was all limewire was. You think you're downloading your favorite song and it's, no. And it's not.

Oh, I got some stuff. You know, it's like, rappers from New York Listen to my mixtape It's like the listen to my mixtape Before it was like You know you're down in New York But instead they just do that

And lime wire They're like Yeah Limbore gave me a lot of viruses Yeah Yeah Same Many family computers

Dude with family computers It was just filthy It was filthy You guys So I don't know this But the band's like It's 10 to 13 years old

Correct Yeah, unfortunately. Unfortunately. Hey, I'm going on 20 and something. It sucks. It's like, well, you, like, when you pass the decade threshold, people are like, oh, so you've been around this long. You're like, why are you not Britney Spears famous by now?

And you're like, well, now in this day and age of music, it's like this instant gratification with, like, TikTok artists. And, like, they just blow up. And then, you know, they have thousands upon thousands of dollars behind them. things like that. But then those are the same artists like to keep that like steady growth. Like they, they fall just as fast as they start, in my opinion. And like keeping, it's hard to keep a band together for a long time, especially with the same people or like somewhat similar people.

Oh yeah. And like I think like when you hit a certain threshold, you're like, oh, we're in it for the long haul. And I just like, I guess I appreciate artists that have been around for a long time. Like, Lorna Shore took so long before they popped, you know, like, I think they were like 12 years old, maybe. And like, same with like boundaries. Like they're getting their star, like stars now. But I saw that band play to like nobody. And I don't know.

I think it's strange being a band for that long. And like still, I think we have a lot to give. But the industry doesn't always look at you that way. They look at you as like, oh, we want the next shiny toy. But that's because they're, you know. they might not make it long. Like I've seen a lot of bands that had that really hot, like, first album, and that's it. You know?

And so it's like the one good thing. It's like, I do envision this band, like, having so much more to give, especially with this, like, unit that we have now. Like, with Mike being on board. But it's hard to, like, make people believe that. So it's like the 10 year, like, when you're like, oh, yeah, we've been around this long, you're like, yeah, we're old, right? So it's a strange, it's a strange thing. to like think about because it's like sometimes you just want to be like yeah it took us this long to kind of brand but that's because we didn't want to like you know we didn't hit the road right away like a lot of

bands could have or did and it took us like years to finally afford a van and that kind of thing so I don't know I think COVID took two years away and all that so sometimes I wish like we didn't have that um too much of a longevity thing like with 13 years being a band but like It's like a while but not. Yeah, it feels like it hasn't been a long time, but just like having that track record, it was like, oh, yeah, you've been around that long. You're like, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So what do you want people to know? Like, what do you want, do you want it to know? You were a band 2013, or is it like a different date that you refer? I feel like 2017 is a better dated thing for the band, like nine years. Because 2013, I mean, granted one. that was what 13 years ago I would have been like what 21 not even how old would

now now I'm guessing about how old I was 13 40 15 right I think I would have been 17 and 2013 and it's just like we were kids you know at that time like no one really knew what the hell was going on he wasn't even in the band yet I was I was the only original member at that point and like I don't know we were just finding our faded footing We haven't done any tours. We were doing like local shows. And we didn't start touring. We did our first tour officially in 2017.

So that was like what Volume 2 came out. I feel like Volume 1 is fine. But it's it doesn't, I mean, even look at that. Albums. Yeah, it's like it doesn't even show Volume 1. Like Volume 2. Oh, it doesn't, huh? I didn't even see that.

Why? I've, it's. Technically, it could be an EP because it's, okay. Eight songs. But, I mean, that's all. also an album for Metallica. So, you know.

But either way, like, I just envision this band, like 2017 makes the most sense. I feel like no one really cares about volume one at all. So it's like we do play the nine in our set list, which is an old song from volume one. But we almost never play those songs. They were never like hits by any means. And like, I don't know.

I think that's kind of why it's like 2017, when the band started would make more sense in my mind. Okay. It's also back when the band had vowels. We did have vowels, yeah. And Volume 2 was the first record without vowels. So, it makes sense, right? We ditched the vowels.

We said, all right. I mean, also, Volume 1 was a completely different era. I was playing bass guitar. We had a different vocalist. Yeah, so. Different guitar, two guitarists. Yeah. And I would agree, Volume 2 is kind of like where it kind of like,

started the take off of it all and we knew about like I knew more about social media and all those things like I don't know I just would rate like yeah the band started in 2017 more so but what I know now is not what I knew then and we just kept going along and oh yeah you know but it's fine like sometimes we could have even started again and 21 with numb to 8 because that was a fully different record in my opinion like a fully different record in my opinion like a full different record from the rest of our catalog before. What was different about it? Well, we just had one way more time to write it, but be, like, it was the first time, like, the band at the time knew exactly what we wanted going into it more so. Like, we wrote, like, 30 demos. 30? Yeah, we would go once a week, twice a week to write a new song, and, like, it was our old guitar

player, and then John, and we come in, and this guy, Scott McGuinness, and we, and we, we would all just like just write a new song like we just pushed ourselves as much as possible and I feel like we really got as much as we could out of it without rushing to play a show aiming to do a tour like there was none of that happening so it was just like the most focused time we could have on a record without distraction so and I thought like to this day is probably still my favorite record to date for the band so um the next one I'm hoping pain processing doesn't count because those are EPs. So, yeah, Volume 4 is my favorite, like, record that we did ever as a band.

Well, you got your bar? We got it. We're going to break the bar. I know it with the next one. We will break the bar. But at the time, like, I just really enjoyed writing that record. I think for me, like, even lyrically, it was the first time I accepted, like, I mean, I talk about it pretty openly. like I was in a pretty abusive relationship literally through volume two all the way up until volume five

and I write about it as a while yeah it's a long time like most of my 20s I was in the same relationship and it was uh yeah I mean they witnessed it firsthand for sure and throughout the years you kind of just understand yourself and understand the place that you're putting yourself and I think like for a long time I convinced myself I had to stay because that's what love is. You stay like no matter what. You stay in the dark times. You love someone through that. But then in reality, it's not that at all.

And it's kind of like, oh, in that record, I finally realized I wasn't in love with this person at all anymore and I wanted to leave. And like I got to open up a little bit about that and like new face, same loneliness. It's like you could still love someone for who they are and wish them the best, but you're not in love with them

and you don't like the person that you became when you're around them. Oh, totally. And you want to go. But you don't know how to make that decision. And, like, I finally, when that record came out, we had the release. And then, like, three weeks later, I finally walked away from that relationship. And I never looked back.

And I think that's why it just means that much to me. Like, I found out a lot. We did a record release show on the 8th or the 9th of July. And literally, like, three weeks later, I found out, like, one I was like getting cheated on by multiple people was weird and then that was like the final straw but not something that I wasn't used to hearing but then I found out he was like doing really other like fucked up things to people and I was like wow I did no idea and I'm like wow like I trusted this person I trusted my whole life with this person and it's just like I knew I had we had no future he's too destructive as a person like violent and um I think overall I was just like like Like, I'm really glad I got to leave because I could have ended up in a really bad position. Like, it was bad. Like, I've underplayed it a bunch, but that's why there's so many records and songs about it

because it was something that I wouldn't say that I couldn't get over. Like the heartbreak, yeah, it sucked, but it was mostly a heartbreak for myself. Like, I allowed this person in for so long and I had a misjudgment. and if I'm wrong about someone and I had a misjudgment, that's, like, so much worse than, like, being disappointed or something, you know? It's like, you disappointed yourself by staying, by not, like, just allowing so much hurt into your life and having it affect your peers. Like, the way, I mean, I, after that, I had, like, not to go into a deep dive by any means,

but I wrote a song, it's called The Her Collection on Volume 5. It's like the title track. And I just talked about how it felt like to be, like, drinking. I drink a lot, like, every day. It was like every day I was drunk. It wasn't just, like, drinking. It was I'm fucking hammered. Maybe not blackout.

Maybe not that bad. But it was like escaping, using that as a form of escapism and, like, coping with this loss because it was like, I still missed him, like, every day. But it was like, I can't stay. I can't do it. And, like, I just removed him from my life. completely. Wow.

It was a hard time, yeah. And then like volume five came out. And we had wrote that before four came out. And so when that came out, I wasn't too excited because I'm like, this meant so much when we were writing it. But when it came out, I couldn't attach myself to it because there's just some trauma attached to it, like not good at all. So that's why we don't really play the songs from that record live.

And we're kind of not that it's not existent to the catalog anymore, but it's not something that I want to remember too much. Because it was for, it was being optimistic for a time that actually never came forth, you know. So, yeah. Yeah, not, not a, it's, it's really hard for people to walk away from relationships. It's just so weird, like, you know you're in a bad relationship, but you won't walk away. No, because it's almost What do people do that? It's like a weird pride thing too

I feel like because you're like No like this person's gonna get better right It's like same with you know I have had to deal with some things that Someone closer to my life was A drug user You know a habitual drug user And then eventually like you want so much

For them to reach a version or a potential That you think exists But if they don't think it exist and they don't push for it to exist. It's never going to come true. And you're only continuously putting salt in the wound, believing in someone that they're going to change because they're not. They've showed you like a hundred times over that they're not.

And it's just in your mind you want to accept that. Yeah. Like I changed. I've grown. They're going to do it. And it's like it's sad, you know, in any sense of the way. It's like it's really sad to give up on someone. But you have to because otherwise you're just going to continue.

continuously hurt yourself through the process. Totally. Yeah, I've gone through that thought processes where I had like close family members that are on like meth or something. Yeah. I just like the real hard stuff. Yeah. And then well, it's your family.

So you want to be there for them. But you actually are actually enabling. And the only people that, I think only people that understand drug use are people that have close family members. Because you see it from birth to. Yeah. And like the only way this person is even, this human is,

you can even salvage their life. is if you devote 24-7, you have no life anymore. And you basically babysit them. And even that, it's not going to help. No. You just got to step. It's still weird. Even getting older, it's still a weird process.

Like a thought process. Like, it's your family, but there's nothing. There's literally nothing you can do to help. No. And you're either going to be at the forefront of their, like, funeral. Like, you're going to watch it happen. Mm-hmm. Or you're going to hope that by leaving, you are.

creating a not a chaos in their life but maybe they think and like wow like I really miss this person I want to get better right and like you created an impact on them enough so they want to change so there's like that duality of the coin it's like you don't know if it's going to work or not and but clearly if you're continuously doing the same thing and it's not working it's never going to work you just you have to change it up and do something different totally and I think even in that term of like i used to not do anything like i didn't drink i didn't do any drugs when i was younger like i didn't have that like oh you know when you grow up you fuck up a lot stage i never had that i didn't start really drinking till it was 25 just pretty late you know so i think 21 yeah so and um i think for me

when i was going through my like stage of drinking all the time i understood addicts and i I've understood, like, a lot of different people. It gave me perspective because I put myself in a similar position, and I'm like, oh, I understand it now. But then at the same time, I'm like, you have to break out of that state. Because, I mean, it did, it took crazy stuff to happen for me to stop, like, drinking to that level. And sometimes I revisit it. And it's not like, oh, I'm an alcoholic or like, oh, I wake up wanting to drink or I get withdrawals.

It's none of that. but it's like oh like if i continuously do this like it's very destructive to my friends and recently i had someone kind of like wake me up and be like hey like what the like i don't know i did something like to hurt her and it sucked and then like she said that like oh i was optimistic for like a different person and i think when you you hear that from someone you love and it's like you know and all you want to do is change and get better and i think like right now i'm in the best mental position that I've been probably ever in my life and I'm like almost 30 so it's like I don't know I think people laying into you is important like I take tough love better than I do like being like

people being nice about things for sure yeah yeah yeah any change I ever had was from something like a like a shake yep yeah like a catastrophic event and you're like holy fuck man why a human's program that way why can't it's like read a book and something like Oh yeah, I'll fucking change. Yeah, no, I mean, it takes just like something drastic to want you to wake up from that. Totally. And I think like. How do you, to close off the dark subject, how do you, one more.

I got one more. How do you, because either way I did it, but it was only with one relationship. How do you actually walk away from a relationship? because so many people have a hard time I just want to, I'm going to stop texting, I'm going to stop calling I'm not going to look at it. So I think it just for me it finally, there's like a flicker, there's a light switch.

There's like I will not give up on anyone. Like I don't, I will, if I really care about you, I'm there for the long haul, I'm loyal, whatever. But there comes a time where it's just like, the light just turns off. And I think like, there's just too much that you really reflect on you reflect on everything that happened to this point and you reflect on kind of like where you are and you're like I wasn't even myself like what was I

really gaining from this right what was I getting and it's like after a while when you think and you're like oh I'm worth so much better than this like you see it you walk in a room like people are lighting up around you like you're clearly like having a good impact even like when things are wrong and you're like oh like clearly it's not me and you have to just like believe in yourself for that like you will find something better and you are but no but you're better like you're the better person like for sure and it's like um I didn't get left alone it was like over a year I didn't get a restraining order it was crazy like oh shit yeah it got it got to like a bad point and like he the last conversation I had was like you know he called me he was like right after

We did the tour on 21 that Mike filled in for. And he's like, if you don't, you know, I'm going to come there and, like, strangle you. I was like the last thing I heard from this man. And I was like, I'm getting a restraining order on you because I blocked him at that point. But he, like, would text me from random members. And I was like, it's time. It's time. And I, right after that, called the cops.

I literally put in for the restraining order. And I got processed in January of 22. And I'm like, yep, that's it. Because he didn't believe I was going to do it. I'm like, don't press me. And I did it. And I haven't looked back since. And I think it took that.

It was like, you're still bothering me. And I'm like, I told you, like, I'm done. Like, I think it just, you reach a level. You're like, this person is destructive and will ruin and destroy my life further than I needed to be. And you just kind of, I don't know, you realize that at a point. Sometimes it comes later than others. For me, it came pretty late. But once I finally did, I'm like, it's time to go.

And they were really supportive. Like, John was really supportive throughout that time. But I'm happy. Like, couldn't be happier. So for anyone, like, looking for a reason to, like, stay? No. Don't keep looking for the reasons to stay. Think about your whole life.

Think about, is this person the pinpoint of every problem that you had? Or 50% of? if it's yes if they're not bringing you like people that love you should bring like not bringing stress they should bring like love support appreciation like things if you did not grow up with that which i didn't really grow up with people around me like loving and supporting me like that you want your version of love is is tainted it's like oh if they're hard on me that means they love me if they're mean to me that means they love me that's like no yeah it's like if it's It's a wiring in your brain that you have to just,

you start surrounding yourself with people, friends, whatever, that do not see you that way and don't treat you that way, that's how you should be treated. And eventually, like, you get enough people that treat you that way, you are not looking back at that relationship you left, and you will find better. Like, that's my advice to have one. Like, you will find a better person, get a better life,

but you have to want it for yourself. This person is not you. it's not even a slight derivative of you. It's like you have you, yourself, and I. It sounds selfish, but you can find the good people in your life, but you have to allow it. You have to allow people to love you. And that's hard.

That's a hard thing for me to finally understand, but you have to allow people that do love and support you, you have to let it happen. Like you can't keep like pretending love means like destruction because that's no. Yeah. It's not it. Yeah.

It's tough to move on and let your walls down. Yes. It is. But you have to do it. Even if you're wrong. But just now you know if you got into one friendship, whatever that was bad. You know the signs, right?

Yeah. So you pick up on a few and you're like, it's not it. I got to go. It's so weird how like your brain tells you, like there's no way. you're going to find another relationship. There's just no way.

This is like that you have to make this. It's so weird. Like throughout your whole teens and 20s, I was like that. I'm like, oh, you have to make this work. It's not, it's not real. No, it's not. Well,

it's crazy. I do think like real genuine connection doesn't come easy. Sometimes you also have to work at it. But it's like, I don't know. I think that like, oh, when you just know, you know, and I'm like, I don't agree with that.

Like, sometimes we trick ourselves and the thinking we know. We do all the time. We don't know. So. Yeah, I mean, congrats on this walking away. Yeah, I was in like a four-year relationship. That was right when Eddie joined the band and it was either like, I'm going to make this relationship work or I need to put 100% of every cell possible.

And then, yeah, just stop texting back, stop calling back, stop. And then, yeah. Just make a decision. I guess, like, I was curious on yours. side because everyone's version a walking away is different you know you you had a pretty way more extreme than mine i still thought about him like throughout every tour every day every place that we've been like whatever but it was just kind of like the there was no good i was pretending there was good but there was in reality there was no future it was like at least a year yeah it took me before i thought

were like starting to yeah okay this is took me up until this year So that's what eight years. Yeah. I forgot. A study just came out, I think, where how long it takes for, how long it takes for someone to actually get over a past love? I think it's actually four years. Yeah. Something like that.

I just saw this like a few weeks ago, like random. I think how long does it take to get over a breakup? I think I saw four years. Yeah, weeks is crazy. You never love them. It is not. I don't know. Big, big, big, big breakups.

Three, three plus years. Slash long term. Six to, yeah. Yeah, it took me five years. Yeah, dude. Three to six months, no. Yeah, no. The three to six month period is like, I can't text them.

Like, I'm drinking. I don't know. You're turning devices pretty much. Oh, yeah. At this point, I think we were over for like a year. And I did, uh, Iwaska. And then it started tripping out. Yep.

And then like, and then the heartbreak came back. Oh, shit. I thought I was over this. Yeah. I was like, oh shit. You just, the three to six month period is the distraction period. Yeah. That's, I'm doing whatever I can to distract myself, whatever that means.

Of like the honeymoon phase of when you get into the relationship, that three to six weeks is like the opposite of it. No, I would say three to six months. Like that's the distraction. Like you're trying to get a rebound or you're trying to do this. You're trying to put all your things into work. and yeah did you put it all into like the music i'm just i'm gonna use i've done that i used the band as a escape kind of a few times where i'm gonna just work on this i'm not gonna process any grief it's like music and music like i okay it makes it makes sense type deal like we did our like so

much touring once 21 like we did a headliner or co-headliner with born anew it did fairly well for you know post-covid uh you know post-COVID and stuff, but I think, you know, we got our first big tours, like, with Val Amaya after that. And, you know, then I ended up touring with Val-Maya, which was sick as all. But it was just kind of like, I was all into work. It was like, oh, guys, we need to do this. And I became a frantic psycho mode. It's like, guys, we got to do this. We got to do this. Yeah. I don't know. You know what? Right before you guys came here, I'm like, am I going to ask Mike about what that song means? Am I going to open up with that? And I,

So this was kind of like a experiment. Oh, well, we definitely opened up a can of worms. I was curious what this could open up. If I just asked Mike straight up, what is the song about? Because I heard you talk about that one song, how you were going to something. You want to try to save that later or might have it's going to open up with that? So I chose to do this right out the gates. We're all going through it.

It's right. The Garza therapy session. There it is. No longer the podcast. It's a therapy session with Chris Garza. But the last line, it's like, Love's not enough to survive on. That's exactly what we just,

this whole conversation is love is not enough to survive on. There needs to be respect, there needs to be appreciation. There has to be care, support. Like, it's the whole thing. So, you know, that was the main. How did you, so for the new record, the first time you're banned, because you're based out of Florida.

Yeah. And you're got you both in Illinois. Chicago land, not Chicago. No, because if we claim Chicago, which there's still bands that do that. And they're like, yeah, we're from Chicago. It's like, no, we're not. My parents grew up there, but we live in the burbs. But we still pay the same taxes.

And we got to. So it feels like it. It's easier and it's cooler to say Chicago than to say Streamwood, Illinois. Yeah. No one knows where that is. But I'm still in Cook County, which is Chicago's County. So I'm not from Naperville. Okay.

Yeah. I'm not from the rich part. I'm not from that DuPage. I be paying the taxes. I'm in Kirk County. So, you know, I'm a claim it. Cook County, okay. Hell yeah.

So I heard that when you guys were write songs, you guys were usually worked like, you would pass around rifts like remotely in bones was the first song. You guys actually were all in the same room together. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How is that different?

Because you're so used to like a certain way and now you're actually in the same room. Honestly. I love being in the same room. It definitely works a lot better. Yeah, it is. It works a lot better being able to bounce ideas and like kind of express like your thoughts better than like typing it out over like Messenger. And like you can really read people's emotions better, you know, when it comes to. like does this sound good yes no does it sound bad yes no whatever you can read the energy

read the the emotion of who's saying that versus the absolute driest text message of yeah i don't like this riff but i mean it sounds like yeah i think it stops us from like getting like demo itis too or anything like that because like literally we all you know it happens to all this at one point or another like I'll like come up with like you know I'll be at my like spot and I'll just be I'll write like you know a full like three and a half minute like song and you know I'll get like really stoked on it I'll be like yeah all right this is sick I nailed it I'm gonna send this to the chat everyone's gonna be like yeah this is awesome and then it'll just be like uh yeah like this part's cool like you should take this part and I'll just be like fuck I'm like why

It's usually me, too. I'm like, I'm the hardest to please when it comes to anything. Someone has to do it. But it usually 99% of the time when those changes happen, it's always, oh, okay, this is way better. But like, you know, when we're all like sitting there together, it's very much easier just be like, oh, how about before you get, we get really attached to this? What if we do this? And then it ends up turning into the thing that we all are like, okay, this is exactly what we were trying to go for. and nobody's like, you know,

nobody's dwelling on like, oh, but like, what about this thing or this thing? It's like, no, we're just, like, Burning Bones was like, I think that was probably like the fastest song. Like, as a band we've probably like done besides like, maybe like snuff tape and kill me. Yeah.

Yeah. Like Burning Bones, like we, Meredith and I flew down to Florida for like a writing session with Mike. And we had a late flight. Like we got to Mike's place. 11 p.m. No, I was I was like, that was way later. It was like, no, we didn't get there like two.

That's because we went to Miller's afterwards. Or after we flew there, we went to. Of course. Like, we got in there, and I think Mike had like a start of it or something like that. No. Well, not even. I, like, I showed up. We're like, all right, let's get to work.

And then I fell asleep. It was just like, let's get to work. I'm like, all right, where's the bed? I passed out. And then, like, 8 a.m. comes along. like you're already passed out Mike's still awake and he's like he turned I walk into

a studio he just does like the whole office chair turn to the door just like listen to this space bar bam and I'm like that's that's gotta go on it was you doing it all night is what we're just about that was like

that was like the day after we had started the song I think we were it was like 80% there yeah and then yeah like he said he passed out she passed out and i was just like all right we got i got to finish this wow and then like literally it was literally like at like the tempo change in the song

where like drops i was like are we got to finish this and then jow walked in i just come i'm like man you're a psycho i'm just i just i just i just wrong writing once it's once i get like the uh once i get the idea started i'm like i got to finish this because i it's like you know it's like waiting for like the next like part of a movie or something i'm like

no, I want to know what happens next. And I got to be the one to, like, you know, it's up to me to do this right now. So I'm like, yeah, I just love writing. I do, yeah, I agree. I'm like the same way. I'll start something and I'm like, it's got to be done now.

And I'm like, I don't care how long it takes. If I don't finish it, I'm not coming back. Yeah. It's hard to come back to things, you know. It is. And you're like, eh, this wasn't as good. So you finish it, you're like, okay, this is good, you know. But.

Yeah, when is it good I still don't know I'm like, is this good? It's kind of suck. I don't know, is it briff all right? That sucks. But you never know what it's going to turn into.

Never know. I'm still learning that constantly. It's crazy. Like this song kind of suck and then you bring into the guys and it gets produced and what the thing? This is cool.

I don't know what the fuck happened to that song. That's amazing. He'll be like, this is bad. like we shouldn't do this and then Meredith's just like hold on you didn't even get vocals on you. So okay so for instance snuff tape for instance like so that's on a

pain processing one and it was pretty it's a pretty simple song right so Evan our old basis he ended up writing that one but he like sent it to us right and I'm like I think this was right before he like left left but

he sent it to us I'm like this is sick I sent it to Joel and he's like, I don't like this at all. Wow. And I'm like, no, no, no. And I'm like, no, no, the ending. I'm like, I envisioned Zelle on it. I'm so glad he, like, accepted the feature, but I envisioned it. I'm like, you hear it.

I'm like, dad, that, like, it'll have a fast pattern at the end. Like, I just heard it. Like, I wrote, like, the lyrics I think I wrote in that day. Like, he sent it to me and, like, boom, I'm ready. Like, it was just perfect for me. Like, there's certain songs that I'll get that I just, I could write the lyrics and, learning like 30 minutes.

I just, I'm like, oh, I already have something for this. And that was definitely one of them. It was just kind of like, John, I didn't think it was going to be good. And now it's, it's one of our most, like, played songs. I didn't think it was going to be good. And then once I heard the feature on it,

I'm like, okay, I'm sold. Yeah. Let's do the rest of it. You know, he was, like, we recorded it with Andre Milosovic, like, the vocals. And he's like, oh, okay, this is actually catchy, like the part that we, you know, wrote for it. And he was like, okay, I'm actually like more hyped on the song.

I was like, good. Because never doubt me. I'm only wrong 20% of the time. 80% correct, 20% wrong. So, you know. It's scary because that 20% could ruin your career. I know. Unfortunately.

I've been there a couple of times. But you keep trucking. At least I don't say 100. I'm not that confident. Yeah. There's like, there's that 20% I might be wrong, you know? It's like, it's good, it's good,

or sometimes the song's not as good as you think it is and it comes out, oh, okay, yeah, now open-minded. Yeah, that's definitely been a couple. But I also think, like, sometimes when you're choosing, like, a single, it's hard to choose the single. But sometimes people are like, yeah, that's the one. I'm like, no. Like, for volume five, we definitely picked the wrong singles,

and that's why I didn't. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I think we did stranger Feed the Vice and Twist the rage And Twit the rage

And Bitterpill And in reality Burn Victims should have been a single That one's still like a popular one But feed the vice was good I'm happy with those two Why did you choose the wrong ones? You know

Yeah Why did we choose the wrong one? I don't know You know I think at the time It was I mean at the time Bitterpill

Bitter pill thought we thought was it, but Burn Victim is a lot stronger of a song than Bitterpil. Out of everything on Volume 5, Burn Victim is still like the only song we still play from this. Yeah, it's the only one that I really, I mean, I like Feed the Vice too,

but I got so sick of playing that. I think overall I would love to I love to play the Hurt Collection on the right tour, but that's kind of it. Volume 5 was not, I don't know. It wasn't as, I didn't like it as, much as for pain processing. That's fine.

It happens, right? You write the one record that you're like, I thought it was going to be amazing. And then you're like, you know? Yeah. I've been there, unfortunately. Yeah, John wrote liminal space. I wrote the liminal space song off that. And it's probably like, I don't know, I've, two songs that I've written have just been

like the stupidest triplet feel songs where everything is da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, and you have to like, you have to be like, all right, John, when is it going to change? Your hand will cramp up in it. And you're just literally doing, like, why did you do this to us? But it sounds cool. It does sound cool. I'd say that one. It's so difficult.

Honestly, like my two favorite, like, victim songs that I had nothing to, like, do with are annoying vibes. And that one and ghost pains. Those pains is hard to play, too. I love that song. Did you tell them what singles that you should chose these ones? I remember, dude, I remember it was

on the way. Yeah, after Malene. Yeah, you guys picked me up for the tour that, the first one back after COVID we did with Born and New and yeah, you know, I was like, yeah, guys, like, yeah, volume four super sick. And they were like, do you want to hear volume five? And I was like, oh, okay, it's done. All right. And then they showed me the whole thing. And I remember

ghost panes. And I was like, dude, these songs are fucking sick. And then. And then. And then they weren't singles. And I was like, ah. No. Wow.

That happens too. Volume 5 was done in 21. We didn't release it until October 13th of 23. I think that was a downfall to you. I think like we took so long to release this record when we had the follow up ready. Yeah. And we're independent. So we could have released it at any point.

Yeah. And instead we just had tour after tour after tour, that it never felt like, okay, I am mentally prepared enough to do a rollout, like a proper rollout. Because for volume four, I did it all. Like I planned it all. I did the ads myself.

I did that whole thing. I got the sound scan report, like I reported that. We shipped out all the vinyl ourselves. Like the whole release was all us and it was the best record that's that we ever had. I definitely the amount of effort I wanted to put in in volume five like with all the touring and stuff. And then I broke my ankle. It was very, very hard. Yeah, I broke my, I got in a car accident.

I broke my ankle in 2022. And it took an, it was like an eight month recovery. And we, we did a tour with a, the destruction, Fox Lake and Carcoza. And I had to be ready and prepared for that. And so my ankle was like still, well, no, I had to be ready to prepare for that. But my ankle was still broken. We toured traders in 22.

So I played a broken ankle. Yeah. And I had it. I rested it. And so I played half the set. And then we got to fill in for half because, like, I could not play double bass. So I was like, this shit's fucked. Yeah.

So, yeah. And that's. why it was hard we didn't find time to release volume 5 earlier because all of this stuff happened so it was like eight months of recovery and like I could not phantom putting up I can't do a music

video I couldn't even do a music video like I can't perform I can't getting on a plane was hard they had a wheel me in the wheelchair and like I had all my stuff by the scooter yeah it was it was a good time it was interesting

what's up how is it playing, how do you play drums with CF? How does that like affect? Because drums are very like stammata and CF is like a very, it affects your breathing and and your lungs correct? Yeah. Okay. How do, then how do you play drums? Um, so I don't know why I picked this instrument to begin with. Rock band. Yeah, I did, but like I don't know why. Like if I knew what I knew now, I would have been the localist. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales,

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and supports life-saving cancer research at the Princess Margaret. Feel free to buy your payday for life ticket today. Raffle number 155-214. Please play responsibly. But basically it is hard. Some venues, especially when they don't have an AC. No AC, it's hot. It's like it's hard to breathe.

And like a lot of people will be like, oh, are you dying up there? I'm like, no, no. This is just my disease. It's okay. Like I don't like when people kind of like look at me and they're like, oh, you're dying. I'm like, no, like I'm fine. It doesn't, sometimes it's hard.

Like it does affect me in the way like we go through tour and then like halfway through if I catch a infection by any means getting through those sets are brutal. It's like, all right, I'm running a marathon. Will I finish this today? And that's why a lot of my parts are simpler. I do that purposely. It's not that I am incapable of writing like more interesting parts.

But it's like if I do reach a threshold of like throughout the tour and I'm too sick to play, I'll play no matter what I'm getting through that. set. I've missed like three shows in our entirety of being in a band. So I'll play throughout the pain, but it's like I don't want to make parts that if I am at like a 20% I'm not getting through that set. No way. Like a bunch of fills, like fast blast and stuff like I could probably try, but it's going to be really sloppy. So it's hard for sure. I've been going to the gym a lot, which helps, like, going on the treadmill sometimes, and that's how you build stannema on, like,

things of that nature. But, yeah, I mean, you just kind of push through the adrenaline. I feel like, no matter what, even if I'm having a hard time, I just like, you're like, I got to finish the set. Yeah. But I'll just hit, like, lighter. Like, you'll know, like, if I'm, like, yesterday, we played the Glass House, sold out.

It was the hottest fucking show. Why? The lights were just, like, beaming. Oh, yeah. And I was like, the stick slipping on in my hand. I'm like, I can't breathe that well, but I'll just hit lighter. So it's like I can hit harder, but I'll pull back and I'll wait. And I'll kind of like go through this that way to make sure I can get through the whole thing.

And there's still, and there's still no cure for it, right? No, no cure. They do have tri-cafta. it's a med that it didn't really bode well for me but it does have like a great deal of side effects but it's helping

people improve lung function by like 20% oh shit which 20% is huge for a lot of people like I have the CF modulation of like the basic or more basic one but I still have to take like enzymes and do my breathing

treatments every day without that I'm not surviving like the breathing treatments It's keep me here for sure. And I keep it well, like at baselines. I'm doing well. But one bad infection, like I've got COVID so many times on tour. I hate it. It's rough.

I've played with COVID. I've played with 70% lung or 70% oxygen. I didn't realize. We're like in El Paso. It was like 79%. I told the guys, I'm like, I'm going to the hospital. What I get home? And I did.

Like, you just know. I think over time, You know where your body's at. You have the same condition for almost 30 years. Like, you know if you could push it or not. And I think I just got to be smarter with it. But I came out of the hospital one time. It was like a week later.

I like IV and all. I'm back on tour. I'm back on tour again. And then I was like, that was rough. And then got COVID after that. But then on our headliner, like the one you've seen us in, in Anaheim. Literally, it was four days before that,

I was still on an IV. And, yeah, we went on tour right after that. And I was really skinny and sickly looking and not leaving the RV, but we made it happen. Like, it was the best shows we played, but we made it happen. What is, because you, you've had the same doctor your whole leg, correct?

Yeah. What do you tell them, like, hey, I'm going on tour. Okay, yeah. So I've had the same doctor since I went to like children's and now he has his own practice. He actually wasn't, he didn't have his own practice at the time. But yeah, he's like, be careful. Stay away from people. Which is why you also don't shake hands for people that don't.

Is it more out there now? People kind of know, hey, maybe I don't go out and try to shake your hands. No. People are not aware. I feel like people know, but they're still kind of ignorant. They don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's some people with CF that have come to the show. And two people with CF can't hang out with each other. They cannot. Like that movie five feet apart. Like, yeah. It's not good. You could die. Like your bacteria shares and like you can die.

Like you can die. So some people are like, oh, I don't care. I'm like, well, I do. I like living. Wear a mask, please. Don't come close. Like, I'm glad I can inspire people to like want to play or come out. or like be like oh i've never seen this before but i don't want to die this is like i don't want

you to die like yeah i read that i'm like damn like two people cf can't be can't hang out together no so it makes it weird like mental health you talk about the disease and stuff like it's i want and i had a little like grief session um over zoom but you can't have those like in person wow so it makes it isolating like the disease is probably one of the most isolating conditions there are out there because you can't be around each other you can't hug you can't share in that like intimacy just it's not

like people have but it's a huge risk it's not a risk I'm willing to take we're already here with this touring is a risk but it's worth it it's worth it so yeah touring touring is a risk it is you're around germs all this I don't know why

I chose like but I think it's just I really wanted to play music I listen my friends over you by Newfound Glory and I um we used to jam um like me and my friend Nick and I would fake play guitar I wanted to beat guitarist yeah I'm not good at it but that's what I wanted me either it's fine and um he had this Paul Rood Smith and I really wanted to learn how to do like oh swing yeah yeah but then I hit the ceiling and it broke the back I was like eight and I'm like yeah this but like the energy

and this is I got to see them at Sonic Temple and I was like side stage and I got to hear this song and I was like oh this is why I play and like they've their guitarist is like cancer right now so that sucks

but really? Yeah yeah he's Chris it's Gilbert right he's Chad Gilbert he's yeah he's not he's not doing well so they have like a filling guy and um yeah Yeah, he was the guy, he was the guy married to Haley Williams, like that guy, so. Oh, shit.

Chad Gilbert, yeah. So hopefully he does well, you know. Pray for Chad. Yeah. That sucks, dude. He looks young, too. What the hell, man? Yeah, February, stage four.

Oh, stage four? Yeah. It's rough. Brain surgery and, like, tubers and stuff. He says he's battling aggressive stage four, uh, ACC. I can't say those. Yeah. Adrenal cortical carcinoma.

Oh, you guys are way better than me. Thank you. I took one class in college. There go, yeah. I don't know what that is, but. What was the class? It was just like an intro to anatomy and physiology class. Oh shit, really?

Yeah, yeah. Why did you take that? Does he get to? No, yeah. He's physical therapy. I was before like getting into the band and the band like taking off, I was going to like the community college near me. Nice.

And I was, uh, my original dream was to, you know, be like, uh, into sports medicine. I'm, I like sports. I like football is my favorite sport. And I wanted to, you know, either do like some sort of sports medicine or physical therapy. And I was on my fourth year of community college getting an associate's degree that's only two years. I just kept failing classes. Oh, yeah. I was around.

The anatomy and physiology class was like the one course that I took that like I was actually interested in. And yeah, I got to learn like a, just like a bunch of like root words, you know, for like medical terms and stuff. And like I can read a medical thing and I'll be like, ah, well, this part of this word means this. this part is this. Theitis at the end is inflammation or infection or whatever. It was just a... Yeah, inflammation. There it is. I know that.

But it was something that, like, really interested me at the time. And then Meredith told me, hey, we got to have a five-day tour. And, like, you texted me that, like, in the middle of class. and I'm like, anyway, I'm a head out and I just grab my backpack. Are you serious? Pretty much, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It was like, it wasn't mid-class, mid-course or anything. It was like after class, I got up and, like, sat in my car for a bit, and I'm like, all right, let's do this. Let's do this. You were thinking about it. Yeah, I did think about it a little, a little bit. But, yeah, no, I just, when we,

got like the first tour offer i was more so set on that then um because like my whole thing is college is going to be there i can go back to college i can take online courses and get a degree you know it's accessible but touring and playing music not necessarily that accessible really like actually the the whole tour aspect is you know it's kind of hard to get to to get to that point. Mm-hmm. And we had been playing local shows at the shittiest dive bars and stuff. And hearing the word tour, I'm like, let's go.

Yeah, let's get the road. Let's go. And then I tried hitting up van places because we didn't have a van at the time. Bandigo. Yeah, we tried doing Bandigo. We tried looking into Enterprise, Hertz, everything. None of us were of age yet. Yeah.

25. Yeah, for like 25. Like, I was just... 23, right? Oh, 21. Yeah, you're right. You were 21, yeah. Um, and yeah, we rented...

I was trying to rent a 16 passenger van. Mm-hmm. But then they show up. I show up there, sign all the paperwork, and they're like, yeah, your van's at the back of the lot. And I turn around the only van is this little Nissan cargo van. that has driver and passenger seat and then cargo and the gear fell on our heads

yeah the gear was falling on my head no windows there was a we had a little uh chair like that you sit around the campfire yeah a little yeah and uh two people sat there and two people like sat in the back and a cargo van that was literally half the size yeah that guy right no no next the white one yep yeah that But that one, but not with the big roof. It was a small roof there.

So. Let's go on tour. Yeah. It was right there. That's it. I have a picture in front of it. And, yeah. It was great.

It was lovely. How many people were in that thing? Four. And we didn't have crew. We didn't know what crew was at that point, you know. But it was a time. It was like definitely ate a lot of shit. A lot of shit during our tour.

I mean, we're still eating shit, but we're in the RV. Yeah. Which, like, it doesn't. It costs, but at least that night, I get to sleep. Not in the front seat. That's a power. That's a win for me. Yeah.

So, I don't know. Naperville. Sometimes they don't tell you when they switch up to vans. No. I've had that, like, a Russian roulette. They just show up. I'm like, that's not the picture. That's literally not the picture, and I fucking paid for it.

But we don't have any left. I'm like, That could have been nice to know. It's always, yeah. It's always, it's always in a position where it's like, all right, well, I need it now. So I guess I'm going to take it. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, you work with what you got. Totally. What was that for the guitar players, I was listening to the, uh, the record. So I was just fucking heavy. What, what did you, uh, what did you use like, cure wise on the new one? Yeah. Uh, so for the, uh, so for the, The songs that are in G sharp, which are like victim mentality, devil speak, and I think just those two.

I use the LTE Steffin Carpenter, but I use live. Nice. Yeah. That guitar is, it's actually Meredith's guitar. My guitar. She's like, look. I've owned that for a long time. She's been like.

She's been. Yeah. That's been. There she is. It's a lot of trauma there. That thing is. That thing has been through everything and then some. But it sounds great.

And then everything else, I actually, I use John's guitar. Oh. Yeah. Do you own any guitars? I own one. I actually brought it on this store as like a backup. I own one black and gold fender strat. Okay.

Yeah. That's like the, I didn't get to use it that much on the store. just because it's not like it's not set up at all for the stuff that we do it's not made the rock yeah right but yeah for the other stuff it was John's uh eight string agile

like intrepid like that guitar for me is also just kind of like very nostalgic because before I was in victims I used to play in like a down tempo band like in Florida where we would play on like you know eight strings but we didn't use eight strings at all like we just use like the top two

but the gray one all the way on the Yeah, that, like, I don't know, I just, I love the way they feel. I love the way they sound. And they just, yeah, it just feels. Yeah, it's hot. It's mean. Yeah. I do love that.

It is a ripper. I do not like play. Yeah, I will not play it live. I'll, I'll record. It's a circle. It's a surfer. I'll record with it. Ednously, but dude, that thing is just, it's a rock.

Like, you just, you feel it in your neck. Even if you have, like, the biggest, like, like strap with you you're just like pretty sure they have blackouts in them yeah yeah uh there's a blackout yeah it's super dungin blackouts and then it's emg 707s in the carpenter

I bought it from this guy Bobby Eckhorn it's John's guitar now but I bought it yeah I was like I was a first owner yeah the second one and then I bought this I used to have the LTD ESP of thousands you know the Paul Reed Smith

oh yeah the white one and the black and gold trim. Yeah. I really like those guitars for one reason. I'm not very good at guitar, but, you know, I really wanted to have a guitar. Nothing wrong with that. I had one of those guys, too. The E-Sound thousand.

I had the, uh, I had like the red like swirl, like swish on it. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, it's the 578 riff guitar. Yeah, the five seven eight riff guitar. Yeah, those things, those things are amazing. You used the noise puddle on the record too, right? Yes. Yeah.

So. Yeah. I got to mess around with that a lot. Shed at the Talon. Yeah. Talon. And Alpha Wolf. Yeah.

What about the amp? The amp? Or the tone? So for the final tone, we left that up to Cody Stewart as far as like, like guitar tone wise. Like I think a couple of the tones, I printed, like all the leads are printed. And a lot of those was a mixture of like Neural DSP Gojira and Neural DSP. uh misha okay yeah that's but for the rhythm tones uh i leave i left that up to cody just because in the mix like also like you know i do a lot of like mixing for bands and stuff at home it's nice to have

a little bit of like you know versatility to like mess with stuff and see like what fits and what doesn't where it's like all right here's a printed tone that i had and it just may or may not work with like his envisionment of the mix are are you going d i or or uh or uh di for like we just go direct into like the like the interface okay and then but for like the lead stuff i just put it on and then leave it on because with the leads i'm like you know there's like a vibe or like an envisionment of how it's going to sound it's like i don't want to be like all right just you know recreated it when it's like if there's no point to it's like you know if you capture it in the moment and it sounds good it's Like, you know, why mess with that?

The guitar tone's getting crazy, dude. Like, how do you get a certain sound? I'm experiencing it right now. I would never do a few years ago. I'm like, oh, this actually sounds better. Right. I'm curious. Back in the day, it was like the 50-150 block letter.

Like, that was kind of the hot, the hot, empty use. Yeah. Highs and lows in 10, mids at zero. I still have it. I have a 51-50, like the original, like the Van Halen block letter at my house. I'm not getting rid of that.

And I had the 65.05 plus. Why do you have all those guitar stuff? Because no one in our band would have bought it themselves. So I had... Back in the day, it was like, I really wanted the band to work. So I'm like, I have to buy all the gear. I used to, like, sell things on eBay and flip items. Like, I worked at Sam Ash and, like, to get my commission, I would, like, oh, like, trying to...

I was crazy trying to chase that commission. But, like, some... It was not worth it. Like, you would, like, I would sell, like, $6,000, like, electric drum kits, like the TD20s or whatever. And still, I was like, where's my freaking check? Where's my money? Like, I don't know. It was, like, it was commission versus hourly at the time.

So it was like, I was a versus deal. Just like venues versus deal. But, um. Well, that's why Sam Ash is fucking gone. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was so many people were stealing. Oh, yeah.

Well, they didn't have cameras. I was good. I was good. I did not steal. That's how you get that block loader. Yeah. No, no. Imagine her walking out.

Just casually walking out. It was because they owned everything. So like Sam Ash owns all of their equipment. So they were able to sell things for a cheaper price and guitar center, like cheaper, like market price. Because they owned it all. Interesting. But that's also probably why they went out of business because they owned all of their stuff. I liked it was cool.

Like I liked working there and stuff. And I got the job right. I was 17. You're supposed to say 18 when you worked there. I got it a week before my birthday. It was like the first time I ever like applied for a job. And one interview. My boss was I think Lewis and he was with blast periphery.

Oh wow. But the instrumental, like, we blast it every time before we closed. I'm like, hell, yeah, I'm in the right spot, right? Yeah. And I remember my first opening, I did Black Friday. And I woke up at six. I did, I worked until, I think, 5 p.m. I drove the Joliet to see Kubla Khan.

It was the Mosh lives door. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think it was that one. I think it was Kubla Khan volumes. Yep. Well, the forge now, but it used to be mojos. Oh, okay. Nice.

Yeah, so I remember that Clear's day. I was like, freshly 18. I'm like, all right, guys, I would take, I would just take off for shows because we didn't really tour at that time. Yeah. But they allowed it. They gave me time off. So, yeah, fun fact about, fun fact about Sam Ash, I guess.

I didn't know that. Yeah, I hopefully that's not in like a contract. I don't think it is, but. No. Hey, you didn't sign anything. Yeah, that's true. Is there a Running third here

Is there anything about You guys Your victims that you want out there For people want to know Or I Or maybe we covered Pretty good ground What do we want people to know

I feel like I talk so much So I'm sorry It's never enough I keep telling people It's never enough Oh yeah dude My job is to listen I feel like

What we want people to know Is that we as a band are we are human and we experience the same thing that the people in the crowd are experiencing and so when we write and perform that music you know it's it's genuine and it's not just something to appease the masses type thing it is a genuine thing like meredith writes all of her stuff from experience and i knowing her i do my best to take her lyrics and bring those to life and give it that life. But yeah, it's all about, you know, making that connection.

That's also a big part of why I'm at the merch table every night too. Mike's also at the merch table as well. Just because, like, we want to be at the forefront. We want to, you know, have people be like, okay, this is a band that, like, I could tap up before the set, after the set. or like they'll come up buy a t-shirt. I'll be in my normal clothes. And then I go stage clothes on.

I come back to the merch table and stage clothes and they're like, wait a second, you were just up there. And I'm like, yeah. Yes, I am John. Nice to meet you. I shake their hand. But it's kind of like at that point where like we value that connection with the fans and everything, truly. And I mean, I guess that's kind of like what we want victims to be is like we're like a family in a sense. You know, like we call, you know, the crowd, the bad luck crew.

And, you know, like I say like, oh, we're victims. Welcome to the bad luck crew, you know, type thing. And, you know, it's very like inclusive. You know, I want to, if you've never heard of us, if you don't even like our music, I don't care. You're at the show. You're part of the bad luck crew now. Hell yeah. I mean, it's also like, you know, build off that.

like something John's been saying a lot on this tour like you know to start the set is like you know we are victims and we embody all the the grief and sadness and anger that like you hold in yourself and I feel like that's you know that's something to let them know to it's like it's relatable yeah well it's like you know the big thing I've I want more than anything is to like you know that that feeling you had when you heard like that first band you had when you were a kid that you really connected with that made you feel like wow these feelings that I've had like that I can't explain or express is being expressed right now in this music or these lyrics or whatever and makes you feel like less alone about it and that's you know that's what it feels for me that's what it's all about is just

you know being able to connect with those people that are in the crowd and you know show them like hey like you're not alone and neither are we you know like we've had people come up to the merch table that have like told us how you know like oh um this song literally like saved my life or like this song helped me get through like the loss of like my best friend or something like that and you know like i mean shit i'm like i'm getting like you know choked up yeah it's like You know, it's, it's very, it's very heavy. It's very, like, you know, emotional. And it's, you know, I feel like it's a very big privilege that we get to, you know, express our emotions through this music and be able to give these people or any of these, any of the fans and outlet as well to just, you know, know that it gets better.

Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Like one of my my final word like the final chapter of asking Alexandria. Is that is that? No. The one that you connected to? No, it's not. No, I was just making a joke.

I make lighthearted jokes when things get serious. Okay. You know, it's a good blend. Nice. But I guess like the last thing is like I want people to know is that like no matter where you are in your life where it feels like. like you're at a low, like you're at your lowest moment, you know? And like not that it gets better out of nowhere. Like you have to put in the work for sure.

You have to put in the work in any, any time or place. But I think you have to just remember who you are, like throughout whatever, whatever you're doing. And you have to remember it's like, I don't know, in this world, you're going to meet a lot of people that are going to do you wrong. you're going to hurt you, they're going to fuck you over, right? And then in any industry, any form, any formality, it doesn't matter. But, like, you have to just remember to always, like, not stoop down to that same level

and just kind of, like, always put your head down and carry yourself in a way that, like, someone would respect, right? Would you respect to yourself right now? You ask that question, and if the answer is no, like, make that change for yourself. No one else. Like my one friend was like, yeah, you can't love XYZ more than yourself. Like you have to remember to love you. And that's true.

Like you have to remember to respect yourself, respect what you're doing, just everything. And like take the experience of life. Like it's going to happen. It's going to happen fast for everybody. You're going to be here. Then you're not. So you have to remember that with everything that you do. Like every experience.

Just like sometimes things you take too seriously. Sometimes you don't take them seriously enough Like time is very valuable and is very short And things can change on a dime So like just love the people around you To the best of your ability and enjoy your life Like even when it sucks Like I don't know you fucking wake up

And like I have a bad day and they know It's like I'll have the worst day And I'm complaining about something And then I'm like I saw a dog in the street Oh yeah I saw a gorgie And I'm like, oh, what time? And then I'm like, okay.

Like, I don't know, it's small things, but life is full of small experiences and small things that can brighten your day. You just have to keep looking for it. You can't look away. You can't, like, distract yourself for fucking ever. You have to just, like, I don't know, take it, take everything you're experiencing in the dark times. You grieve through it.

Process it. You sit there. even if it takes you years, like, let it go. Like, let it flow through you and then let it go and don't,

like, don't not forgive yourself forever. Don't not forgive other people forever. Like, move on, move forward. I think that's important to do every day.

Beautiful. Thank you for that. Yeah. All right. Well, we close off of your podcast, the same. It would be cool to get three different answers.

All right. So I ask, what are three songs or three records for people to check out? New? No, no rules. Could be any genre,

any 60s now? So we're doing a three each or three just? Three each. Three each, yeah. That's good. I love that. I'm going last, I think.

Let's do it one by one. One by one. Yeah, I'm going to do, wait, I'm going to do past, present, feature. That's what I'm going to do.

Okay. So like the upcoming release that you heard a few singles, something that just came out, and then the old one. Okay. So I guess I'm going to go first. So I'm going to say, I'm going to do

Current Static Dress Just Released the new album It's It was like, I don't remember the name of it I'm going to be so honest Like, it's very good, hold on, I gotta see it What's it called? No, up

It's the new one Oh, it's not It's brand new. It released Friday. Oh yeah, I heard it did I just came out it's they have a song with under oath it's like doll blade disguise i was just talking about him uh yesterday injury episode injury episode it's very good so that that came out literally on friday of 2026 may of 2026 so check that out uh ali appellard is a it was a photographer when i met him and now they're they're

gonna pop off like they just signed a samarian they're gonna be a band to watch oh hell yeah sick one um for upcoming releases i'm not sure if it dropped yet i'm so out of touch with albums and releases and stuff but that new one five six silence album coming out oh yeah september it's september yeah oh yeah um yeah super excited to see you know that come out and see that from a distance from a distance right that yeah it's gonna be great um i think their whole like persona for that band is so mysterious, almost enigmatic, and it, like,

the way they portray themselves, like, it makes you, like, kind of keep watching them. Yeah, it's like a scary movie. Yeah, like, look it. It's so, like, unsettling. Philip. Sick man. But, uh, love those guys.

Love those, love that band. We toured with them back in, like, 2019. Yeah, he was there. Oh, yeah, with Black Tongue. Yeah, Black Tongue. And then earlier that year, for a few days with falsifier. We have a bit of relationship, long-term relationship, I guess, with them,

on top of the co-head that we did with them too. But yeah, I guess that would be my first album for this. Rest in peace, Lucas. Yes. And I would say for an album that has already been out, that I think everyone should listen to, is As You Please by Citizen. Wow.

We talked about this. Yes. I think that album, album is perfect front to back not a single bad song I think it's sick yeah it is just it is literally is just a vibe all the way through hell yeah all right so and then the upcoming release you know um Olivia Rodriguez releases or no album in June I'm I'm a big Olivia Rodriguez Stan fan Gracie Abrams too but uh I'm gonna go see her in this fall I think she rules she's You seem pretty sad for a girl in love. What a title.

Come on. That's my own aesthetic. Go on. Yeah, that was pretty. Hell, yeah. All right, John. That's cool. So we're coming back to me.

Something that released and something that's old. So something kind of current that released something old. Let's see. I could probably do something that's old. Yeah. Easier. You thinking too hard. I really am.

Like I said, I'm so out of touch. with a lot. It's like once you get asked the question, every single thing you ever knew just disappears. You're like, I've never heard a song a day in my life. You can even say your own band. Just to, yes, you want to listen to volume two, volume three, volume four, volume five, pain processing one and two. That's my only answer. No, so I'll go for old. I, I want everybody to dig into the archives and pull out impossibility, impossibility Reason by chimera. Oh, see?

I love that album. There we go. See, that's a good answer, see. Nice. All right, Mike. I would say for a future release that I'm really excited for is the new Boundaries record.

Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, those singles are just insanely good. Like, I think that's going to be like one of the best albums in the last like five years. Hell yeah. It's guaranteed.

Yeah, was it yearning for the unbeautiful after. Yeah, also, sick, fucking. Very tight. Sick title, sick. We're all yearning. And that was your three. Thank you, Mike.

So I'm on, I'm on my last one, right? Did you do three? You did. Says, oh, wait. You got one more. You got one more, but I'm on, I'm on my third. So an old release, you know, I'm going to bring it back. Shout out villains.

Ten code. That band, like, they did not get as big like people talk about sworn in but villains was the band like for real i don't like i love sworn in i love chris george i shout out but villains 10 code like that was the band from chicago out of all the chicago yeah they they were awesome like shout out devon that album is like migilvery that album and reese and yeah and they were just great guys but uh they signed a prosthetic and they released the record and they kind of faltered but i love that band and then I think they did it.

They did it. We probably wouldn't exist in the same. Yeah. You know, without them. Sick. All right, one more album for me. Current-ish. You always be showing me new music.

Prompts. You like prompts. I do like prompts a lot. I do like Crystal Lake a lot. But they haven't released anything. Yeah, they did. Crystal Lake. I mean, Crystal Lake, yes.

Yes, but prompts. Let me shout. Shout out the homies in Mirsel. There you go. Yeah. Their album that they dropped last year. It was last year ago. It was like a couple months ago.

Couple months ago. Yeah. Super tight band. You know, they have a really cool sound. I feature on one of their songs. Eachie. No, I'm kidding. But we're playing a couple shows with them at here in a few days.

Yeah. Excited to rip shows with them and finally hear their music. music live. There you go. Because I haven't yet. And I love it. All right, Mike. All right.

It's not an album, but I will say the most, as far as, like, recent stuff, I think everyone should listen to the most recent EP by this band Pretty Pity. They're from my area. We also share a manager. Shout out Shelby. But, yeah, this band is, they're so, they're so good. They're, like, they're amazing. like I guarantee you like within five years this band should be playing like arenas.

Maybe not arenas but like big. Yeah, she's got big rooms. Like they're just like yeah. Shout out those guys. Love them. That is and that's my three. There go. Pretty pretty.

Nice. It's good. I think it's a cool name too. Yeah. It's like super like it's like pop rock with like. Yeah. It's very good. Yeah.

I agree. We met them like, they came to hang out in Boise. Yeah, that's right. We all got tattoos, so I got, like, tattooed on stage. While I was playing. Hard to see, but it's on that angle. Just the bad luck crew, like, symbol.

Hell yeah. They all got tattooed, too, so it's cool. Well, sick. New record's out now. Any tours coming up after July? It gets announced in, like, a week. We saw the ad mat, so, you know, it starts and ends in the West Coast, be in Chicago band that's the best thing you want to hear okay

sick but it'll be cool it's gonna be different people are not gonna expect this like line up from us and like same with like jaluka I feel like oh great the band is just trying to kind of play different stuff like I know we're known as a happy band but we have other tools in the shed right so yeah okay we're gonna maybe use that on the next um tour it's in the fall so

everyone will see. All right, this fall, keep an eye out. Mike, John, Meredith, thank you for your time. And thank you for letting me be in your band for the last hour and 40 minutes. I'm honored. All right, I'm in.

All right. Thank you for having to say. All right, guys, anytime. I'm honored. All right, everyone. That's it. Love you guys.