Garza Podcast - 26: Keith Barney I EIGHTEEN VISIONS, EX-THROWDOWN

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

Keith Barney is the guitar player for Eighteen Visions & former singer of Throwdown. We talk about how 18V got signed to a major label, what straight edge means to him and much more. SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB

Our guest today is a guitar player for 18 Visions and respectfully the ex-singer of Throwdown. Speaking about our genre in particular, there would be no death court scene if it wasn't for bands like 18 Visions and Throwdown. And to me, our guest was the face and voice of the Orange County hardcore scene. And I say this throughout the podcast a few times, but whenever I was feeling lost personally and I needed to reconnect to my musical roots, I would always put on throwdowns, drive me dead, and it always fucking took me back.

And bands like 18 Visions were on the front line of the fashion core movement, and they were the ones that really put their necks out there first. And I didn't know where people started to look like their singer James Hart, and it was weird. And we would, like, talk about it in, you know, our little circles. So I always felt like they never got the public

recognition for that. So that's how influential bands I'd throw down 18 Visions had on the whole heavy genre in general. So it was an honor to finally meet our guest. I hope you enjoy it. Let's get into it.

Please welcome Keith Barney. Keith Barney is here. Hello. I've been listening and been inspired by your music for many years. So it's a, it's an honor to have you. So thank you for being here, man. Thank you for saying so.

Yeah, it's cool, man. I'm excited to be here. Dude, how is Las Vegas? You did two gigs. Yeah. It's been quite a long time since I had done something like that too. But it was fun. There was like three hours in between sets,

so there's plenty of time to chill. Yeah. but yeah no it's once the all the the the crazy part really is like all the practices yeah go before you know so there's everyone's got to practice a whole much of times before you play yeah so I'm kind of like trying to figure out my schedule gonna practice with 18 visions this day and adamantium on that day and then whatever and then you know the different text threads trying to figure out the set list for whatever but the day of you just get up there and play and it's it's great

Yeah, in a way it might be like the easiest part. Yeah, it totally is. Yeah, exactly. Because he did all the hard work already. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's so much built up to it. So it is kind of like one of those things. I mean, I'm sure like so many bands who haven't played in a while because of COVID and all that kind of stuff, it's like there's a lot of buildup to get back and ready and you like you want to, you don't want to come out, you know, guns blazing, right?

So there's so much thought and energy that goes into it, especially. especially with 18 Vision, so we spend a lot of time with like our live show and how we, you know, program our lights and all these kinds of things that we do. So the day of the show, it's so great to finally do that and it's like a full release. It is like here. The next day, we got one under our belt. We just got added to that PsychoFest like late in the game, like a month before or something like that. And so we played a little earlier in the day, but there was a great turnout and it was a great set.

It was sick. And then Adamantium was later in the day. And there were still like, there's like definitely crossover of because there's like, of like the entire community of like, you know, heavy music that's at the Psycho Fest festival in Vegas. You know, of course we're going to get more of like the hardcore fans and stuff like that. And then some of the crossover stuff too. Yeah. And Adamantium had a lot of friends way back in the day from Vegas and stuff. So, yeah, it was really cool.

That's cool, man. Yeah. Yeah, that lineup looks sick. Yeah. I was like, damn, I saw pictures on my damn, it looks fucking awesome. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I really cared about seeing when I was going

I was like, oh, of the bands I wanted to see was Cannibal Corpse. Of course. Yeah, so my buddy and I, we just, you know, we had the artist view above everyone, but it was so great to watch them like on a beach. They're playing at the Mandalay Bay

of like the kind of beach area, So it's kind of a funny setting to watch them. But it's just, they're so fucking heavy and just amazing. I know, dude, they are their OG of OGs. Yeah. The bands that we go to like, oh, shit, like, how do they do it? Yeah. You know?

Yeah. I still do that. Yeah. I'll listen Cannibal to get some inspiration. I'm like, okay, cool. I feel all fired up. Same. You know?

Yeah. I made, like, the master, like, Cannibal Corp's playlist on my phone. And, like, that's exactly like, if I'm going to start, like, writing something. I'm like, do I got to go back to the playlist and get in the vibe. Yeah. It's crazy how you always go back. You know, like you're going to go back to Cannamacorp's. You're probably going to go back to Roots.

You know, it's like it just reminds you. Yeah. You know, I get that feeling with you guys, you know, from Throwdown. Like my favorite, like, my favorite, it's not not in the album, but it's an EP. drive drive me dead if I if I get like I don't want to sound like spiritual or like

woo-woo but if I feel lost like musically or I don't know like I just I just feel lost I put that that on and it fucking takes me back I feel okay

it's weird it's like I know I know who I am oh that's so cool it's weird and it's a and of kind of an interesting choice compared to like what most people like reference about

throw it on or something but yeah that was a really fun EP to make um justin from this band open hand he helped he owned a loft in LA and um he was doing sound for mad TV a lot time ago and um anyways uh he had a bunch of recording gear and so he recorded um a bunch of stuff for us and that's kind of where that came from wow yeah when i hear that stuff like you's he you he's sound like you're from sook, but you're originally from Colorado. Like you're not, like you're not from here. Well, I mean, I mostly am. I mean, I was born just outside Denver, moved to Chicago for three years, moved to Texas for just like a year.

And I was in California by the time I was like five, six. So I basically from California. But, yeah, I do have some of those memories and experiences of other places, which kind of would come back to me, like, in subtle little ways, like being on. on door and stuff like that, you know. Yeah. It's just that sound. I'm like, yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's from here. You know?

How, how is it like growing up for you? In what way? Like, what was your, to have like the sound you have, what, there has to be like a kind of upbringing? Mm. Um, you know, I grew up on classic rock, which I got from my dad, you know, so he had, you know, all those records. Led Zeppelin was my first love for sure.

I was all about that and then, you know, Eric Clapton and Cream and the doors and all that kind of stuff was when I was younger. And then when I got into, like, junior highs when I got into like, I mean, I was watching like MTV and stuff like that, like all the kids. And I loved, you know, like Motley Crew

and Def Leopard and all that kind of stuff that I was watching on MTV. You know, it's the kind of thing that when I was, you know, fifth grade, I'm, like, drawing their logos all over my books and stuff like that. I just loved all that stuff. And then in junior high, I got really into grunge, you know, so Stone Temple Pilots, Allison Chains, you know, Nirvana, like, all those bands were huge. And so things were getting more aggressive. But at that exact same time, I think that was, like, when I first heard Black Flag, that's when I first heard Sick of It All.

So yeah, I was just kind of like slowly doing that. And then my freshman year of high school, a friend gave me a tape, like a mixed tape. And it had Snapcase, Earth Crisis, chorus of disapproval. So a bunch of like, you know, hardcore from kind of just before my time. It was like their first seven inches and stuff like that. So it was a little bit even older at that time. So it was like the first time I heard hardcore. And I was like, what the hell?

you know at the same time that like pantera was on m tv i loved that you know um and so it was just kind of progressively i was just i leaned further and further towards the things that were heavier and it just kept going and going and going so that's how i just got into like way more metal um like sepeltura you know the roots album like changed my life slayer like all that kind of stuff um uh what else like helmet i was really huge into helmet um So, yeah. Yeah, because when I listen to, like, any, anything from 18 Visions, I just hear, like, like, he must have loved roots.

Yeah. Because, but that's something that I think, like, a guitar player knows that really listens, actually listening, listening to, like, the music, all you, you're like, like, you, because, I mean, me being a big fan of corn, like, you probably don't know, but if you really listen, oh, that I do listen to corn all the time. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And those, like, those, like, those, uh, that inspiration is, like, hidden in there.

Yeah. You know. I was a huge corn fan, too. Really? Oh, yeah, from, from day one. Um, when I was in Adamantium, when the, one of the first shows that we played was, like, a house show. And we dressed up in full, like, Adidas gear. Really?

And we covered, you know, um, blind or whatever to start the set and everything. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I was a huge, huge fan of corn always. Really? Yeah, I had a corn shirt that I wore on our like, Adamantium tour, and some people would be like, oh, you like corn, you know? And I was like, dude, they're fucking heavy.

Like, I had a few, like, kind of close friends. Like, you know, it was somewhat different depending on who you talk to. But, like, I liked a lot of the new metal stuff because it was just so heavy and groovy. Sometimes I wasn't, like, so into either was the vocals, the look or this and that, but I loved a lot of that stuff. I just loved the riffs. Wow. That's crazy. I always thought there was like a separation, especially with like with the Orange County and, you know, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, heartcores scene, always felt like a separation between that and like new metal. Because I would go to shows. And I'll go there wearing, oh, when I'm first, I started going to showcase it down the street, like, you know, see, you guys. Yeah.

And I'm wearing my corn shirt or I wear my jumpsuit or I'll wear my slip my shirt and I'll get fucking picked on, dude. Yeah. It was like everyone would go for me. I was like, what the hell? I'm just like a metal kid trying to, you know, I learned like to mosh and dance so people will stop just solely to stop getting picked on. Yeah.

I was like, all right, I guess I got to start fucking two karate moves. Yeah, it's too bad. I mean, I think that happens to a lot of people, you know, when they cross and cross it to another genre. And unfortunately, you know, whereas I think there's less of that kind of rules within like larger scope of metal or something like that. Yeah. The hardcore scene really kind of you know

labels things or they look out you know it's one of the things that's that's kind of annoying you know. I mean like punk you know anything kind of goes in punk where for some reason hardcore they're kind of more like oh you're supposed to look like this or that which is you know where 18 Visions broke out of. We didn't give a shit

about anything like that so we were different in the way that like That's how I really connected with those guys. It was like, oh, you love this type of music. Oh, you love this type of music. We listened to all different types of stuff. And that came through into our music and whatever. Whereas a lot of other bands from the hardcore scene and whatever,

they kind of stuck maybe closer to the script, you know? Yeah. I personally always just felt like I just love exploring, you know? And that comes back to bands like Smashing Pumpkins or something. Yeah. They would have like a heavy song. They would have a super melodic song. they were just super eclectic

and you just knew that whatever they were doing it was like from the heart it was just super I mean it felt important you know what I mean and so when I looked at music I just looked for things that had that like

corn resonated with me because like those dudes just looked passionate about what they were doing and it was like super aggressive and sick you know yeah and that goes across spectrum I just did I don't know I didn't really make rules

musically for myself yeah That, I mean, 18 vision really shows that. You guys didn't give a fuck. Yeah. It showed. No. It showed in the music, the lyrics, the, which I think you guys did the best at, is also the image.

It was, it was like, it's a whole package. Yeah. You know, you guys, because, you know what people say they don't give a fuck, but they actually do it. Yeah. You know, it's a whole other level. And, you know, you and 18 Visions, I think, mastered that shit. yeah we were hated and loved

it was just like but rarely ignored somehow like you know it's just one of these things and that's okay we were fine with that it was just some people get it

some people don't and it would change over time these people got it these people didn't but really what we were just doing I mean internally was just trying to

make cool stuff you know whatever whether that was metal whether that was like rock We were trying to incorporate so many different genres of things we were influenced by, you know? Yeah. And that was so fun.

I was just, I love getting in the studio. That's my passion. I love being in the studio in like, you know, layers or like songwriting and working on stuff like that. I'm not really thinking of like what's going out there too much. Yeah. But as far as like the look and all that kind of stuff, yeah, it's just something that was another layer of something that was fun to creatively explore. There's like another way that we could express. ourselves creatively, whereas other people were like, you know, every band looked the same. And, you know,

we were talking about Unbroken before we started. Like I said, I only got to see him a few times. But, I mean, it was like a life-changing moment when I saw Unbroken Live and they, they all looked like they were like, you know, cuffed pants and pants and like, you know, they combed their hair all up like, like, slick, like 50s style. And like, they had like a total vibe. And it was cohesive, the whole band. They looked nothing like anyone else that was inside that club. And it just stood out like, whoa.

Like, these guys are different. I wonder why they do this or what, you know, I just, so of course, I'm in high school. I start slicking up my hair. I'm like, I'm like, rolling up my shirt. And I'm like, just, that shit's cool. Yeah, it stays with you, huh? Yeah, it totally does.

Yeah, it's cool. Maybe that's what first inspired you to have that, like, cohesive look, you know? Yeah. It's definitely something we referenced for sure, you know, And whether it's like Manson or like zombie or slip knot or whatever, like, I just, I love, I love that other level of entertainment value. It's so cool. Yeah, it's awesome. And as you said, you know, people either hated or they loved it.

Yeah. Which is what, essentially what you want because people don't hate you, then you don't love you. They don't love you. They don't hate, I know, yeah, you don't want like. Yeah. You don't want people to like your band or dislike. Because then people don't care. Yeah.

You know, so people love you. They fucking love your band. Yeah. It's awesome. But of course, this whole other side. And I think of what you're, you're a very humble guy. And but so I'm just going to say it. It seems like back, back when it was happening with like, when 18th Vision started to like have a cohesive look and like started like doing like the, you guys got into like the fashion scene and stuff, they're.

was it seems out of nowhere bands just started copying you guys it seemed it seemed fucking quick where like there is a style 18 visions was doing it people were either loving it or talking shit and i remember going to shows and people were cutting their hair a certain way i was like what is happening yeah and like and i found it very odd which is why i wanted you on the podcast i love having people on the podcast and give i just shed light on on things that that that they've done guys really started that it seemed like you guys really put like it started a style yeah it you know our james cuts hair yeah um in the early days Javier he cut hair um you know they went to hair school um and then our drummer ken he uh he worked like you know at a clothing store

you know it like was it banana republic or something like that yeah he and james both worked there together Oh, wow. So they were just kind of around that stuff, I think, you know. And I guess maybe it seeped its way in. And then also, like I said, with the influence of Unbroken, like, when we were younger, like, that was like, oh, that's cool, you know? Like, I don't know. You know, maybe we can take a little piece of that or something, you know. But, yeah, I know.

Like, as time went on, yeah, it was kind of like seeing it around everywhere. We didn't think about it too much, you know. people started saying like the whole fashion core thing which was that was you know started by someone over in long island um it it is which end up being friends you know but um there were these things that we became a target you know if you if you get your i'm sure it was this you know to like a much larger degree right of course like you know if you take someone like manson or you take like you know slip dot or whatever if you do something crazy like that people are going to look at you right you wanted attention yeah

And then they'll, you know, find something about it. They'll, you know, they'll hate you or whatever. So in our little way, like, doing that in, in this kind of world of like the hardcore scene that we're coming from, which was more about like, okay, you just wear cargoes and a band shirt, you know, whatever. You know, which we all did that too. Of course. You know, whatever. You know, I think, you know, we became a target.

So it was just, it's easy to say something. something about that, right? You're not really saying something about the other band that's all wearing cargoes and running shoes or whatever, right? It's like, there's something to talk about, I guess, I don't know. Yeah. When you look back, it's not that shocking because if I, you know, if I put on like, like, like the second record, I'm like, the way James sings, he has his own patterns and his own style. I don't want to use the word flamboyant. I'm like, the way James sings, he has his own patterns and his own style. I don't want to use the word flamboyant. but it was like it was it was his own thing oh yeah and what and what you guys did which is what great music does is right i mean let's make it a whole thing yeah let's make like the music also like like like like the image as well yeah it all started kind of riffing off each other really totally like james would kind of incorporate some of these kind of like like um like wow like crazy things in it's you know like in the vocals and like and you know he's like wearing sunglasses

and I remember we played some Fess Back East and he had like he had a boa on with like a fucking rainbow afro and we were playing with like Dillinger's gay plan you know what I mean? You know so we're just

I don't know you know I can't speak for James you know he was having a great time and we and then we would feed off that too you know what I mean um for all the different sides of James

or like you know we looked at we looked he was just a fucking amazing front man he stuck his fucking neck out there for everything for to do creatively what he wanted to do and so I know for me you know that's inspiring that's like dude he looks like he's just having a fucking

blast beat himself doing what he wants to do you know like maybe maybe we could do that too or this too you know so we did kind of feed off each other a little bit yeah yeah you feed off of the band members especially the ones that really like do something you're like oh shit James is It's wearing a tie

I gotta we should probably wear ties I don't know If a band member would do something You just start doing it Yeah You know Especially when it's like It's authentic

And it's undeniable Yeah you know And it's just We're all so influenced by our friends And then as musicians Or like as just music fans Like We're so influenced by like other bands

And influenced by like The scene you come from And stuff like that So if you see something cool You're gonna like I'm gonna try it You know I think that sounds

Like I know that is how it is for me. It's like if I see something I think looks cool like, you know like oh fuck dude Kirk Cobain looks just so sick and like ripped jeans and a fucking flannel and like that's the vibe how I feel

today like that's what I want to do today. You know what I mean? I just want to look fucking grungy today. Oh yeah. I'm just being real. Oh yeah. Yeah. If we see something that like it feels right and you start doing it. Yeah. Totally man. I mean it's very it's very like a

It's a very natural human quality. Yeah. You see something and like you feel something from it, you just start doing it. Yeah. Musically, it seemed like you throw down 18 visions, bleeding them through. It seemed like you guys were like, you know, you guys heard your own sounds, but it's from now, as a fan, now I could look back. Like, it seemed like you guys are all like inspiring each other, but still doing your own thing.

Yeah. I think we are probably all looking at each other. like, okay, so, you know, Throwdown has like this version of hardcore that it's doing, you know, so then a new band would happen that would be like a little bit left of that, you know? So everyone kind of carved their place it felt like, you know? Yeah. There was all kinds of bands. And yeah, there wasn't too many that it was just like exactly the same.

Like everyone was trying to like be a little bit different in some way, you know? Yeah. Well, it was accomplished. Yeah. But I think James has to get the most credit, man. He really put his fucking neck out there. Yeah. I think if I would think guys that had balls to do what they wanted to do,

I think about avenged and I think about 18 business. James, like, more so, like, did shit first and put it out there in front of people to see, especially in such, like, you know, obviously what we love, like, the I-E and O-C-U hike scene. But, you know, there was like that, like, kind of closed box. So for people to go outside the box and just do it in front of people. Like, that's like, those are the fucking dudes, man. You guys fucking did it, man. You know, James was, I think even, like, prior to a bench,

I remember he was doing his own thing. Oh, yeah. And I never met James. Dude, when I'm, even like when he was in high school, I mean, he got a fucking gigantic neck tattoo. Like, in high school. Yeah. Right?

Like, that's crazy. I didn't know anyone else. Like, especially at that time. Like, I know. That wasn't, I mean, people with, like, tattoos, like, all over the place. Like, I mean, people had tattoos for sure, but, like, it wasn't, like, neck tattoos and fucking face tattoos and stuff, you know. Dude, singers, man.

Yeah. I think, I've been, they called front woman or front man for, for, for, for, for reason. Yeah. You know, like, they're, they start doing things first, and they're, they're out, they're out, at their front. Yeah. You know, Mitch was fucking 16 getting, you know, tattoos. I'm like, what the fuck you doing, man? You're fucking a freak, but it's, but, man, it's, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're,

They're a different breed. Yeah. You know, and then we have to beat off it. Yeah. You know? For sure. It's like, shit, it makes you. I love it.

Yeah, it's great. It is kind of subconsciously will push you. Mm-hmm. You know. James, James was a sweetheart. You know, he, uh, remember I, I used to bug him like on aim. Oh, really? I found, I found his aim name for, like, uh, I don't know how I found it.

Then I would, whenever I would hit him up, he would always say something back. I was never rude. And I was a dumb, stupid. his little kid is asking dumb questions. Hey, hey, can you pass out my, like, demo? You know, the whole, like, the dumb, like, questions that you ask someone, can you, like, can you, like, listen to my band?

And I have, and it being so, you know, and it's sent, like, it's online, but he never said anything rude to me. And that, you know, that, when you're a kid, that stays with you forever. Yeah. And I have another experience, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to say the band in, but in other Orange County

band in the scene, like, I had an experience a front of showcase, and he fucking rock started me. Oh, really? And it stayed with me. until forever. Yeah. So when I hear people talk about 18 Visions or James, I'll be like,

yo, no, they're like, the dudes are cool. Yeah. It's weird, like shit that stays with you. Yeah, no, it really, it really does. It influences you and, yeah, those, like, those chunks,

those little memories, they really stick with you. It's nuts. I've always wanted to meet him. Thank you for, for being cool with me on Aim. Dude, maybe he's still on there. Hit him up. Oh, Mike.

I think I remember his AIM name. old Wyoming? Yeah. Oh my God. Dude. Sometimes your memory is on point. It's a copy. Sometimes it's...

You know when you need to chain link stuff? Yeah. Chain link? One thing that's got going. Yeah, you access like one node and then like it reaches out to the other. Yeah. It all comes back.

Yeah, it just keeps going. Was there a point for you where you really felt like, okay, I need to step away from throw down and really go full on with 18 Visions. Would there like a moment where it was pretty fucking clear? Yeah.

I was Yeah, I bit off more than I could chew. I just You know, even to this day I'm I love making music so much that like I just want more. I just want more and like if I have friends that are good musicians like And I have access to it you know

like then then I'm gonna go for like let's just do it you know like I think I've got Thursday nights free let's do you know whatever like yeah I uh so yeah yeah it got to a point where each ban was kind of um getting really serious um kind of kind of known you know across the you know the US or whatever and uh at the time if my members memory is totally correct. The guys in Throwdown, except for myself, were still doing school. They were still, like, in college.

And all the guys in 18, like, were free, like, ready to go. And so, really going out with 18 was my first real taste of, and I think we did a tour with Lamb of God. I took a break. I was in design school, and I took, like, a, like, a term off or whatever,

so I could go on this tour. It was Lamb of God. It was lamb of god and mushroom head. Sick. Yeah. And it was a blast. And all the guys in a team were just like, you know, let's fucking go. Like, we're ready to go.

You know, and like, we had, you know, we'd gotten a label that was like ready to put out shit whenever we wanted. So it was kind of like just green light whenever, you know. And so I was trying to balance how I was going to do this. And for a while, one of my best friends, Matt, he was filling in for me and throw down when they would tour and he'd play guitar. and he'd play guitar. And then it just kindly got to the point where we just had to part ways. But I did tell them. I was like, guys, like,

I literally started Throwdown with a few of the other guys. So I was in a founding member. It was like, it broke my heart to not be in that band. So I was like, I'm not going to quit. You're going to have to kick me out. Wow. And eventually that's what happened.

Dom, the bass player called me and was like, hey, I think, because they were like starting to do like, you know, Oz Fest and shit. You know, so. Yeah Yeah, it's crazy how you had to move Like move on that way You, you, Dom, Dave and

Tommy, you guys had such like a chemistry. Yeah. It was like It was such a fucking unique sound man. It's fucking awesome. There is as As a fan When you made that switch From, okay, from Threatdown to 18 Visions As a fan, we were kind of left in the dark

And it was kind of unclear What the reason was and so we sort of having rumors like we heard you were having focal issues and and it was and you know there wasn't on like Instagram where like we follow Keith and he says what happened is like we just we just outside showcase I taught talking about rumors and that that and that was it yeah no I um you know throwdown was super important to me uh you know I got throw down tattoos I I I loved everything about, you know, what we were trying to do, you know, during my time in that band and everything. And so, you know, it was really important to me.

And even more important so is just playing music, playing live. Like, we did a tour and I was singing still. And it was, my voice just kind of died on me during the tour. You know, like nowadays, like, people have a lot of, like, resources to learn how to, like, actually scream correctly and stuff like that, you know. Yeah. I was younger. I didn't know how to do that shit. We didn't have fucking YouTube and whatever resources, whatever.

Yeah. You just scream. So it just went out on me. And then it all kind of came to, like, a boiling point when, um, the very first time in Orange County hardcore band was playing, uh, the glass house. And it was like before, at that point, you know, there was, there was showcase and, um, there were different. clubs that people play LA and you know all over the place but like the glass house was like a big one like oh it feels

like a really legit fucking club that's it was a huge deal at the time so throwdown was headlining the glass house and it was just like holy shit so you know you can imagine like the kind of the practice leading up to it and like just trying yeah um we gotta make sure we're super tight and whatever

well every single practice leading up to that show my voice wasn't working for whatever reason I could not practice I was like so fucking stressed out. And at that time in my life, all I ever thought about was like, was music and hardcore and stuff like that, right? Yeah.

So I was so stressed out leading up to that show. And then the day of the show, we did sound check, and I think it was the monitors. Like, I could really hear myself really well, which never happens at most clubs, like that are smaller, right? So it came back,

and it came back like that, and we played the show and is sick. It was great. It was amazing. But after that show was when I talked to the news, like you guys like I can't handle that like I want to go back to playing guitar where like if I break a string I'll just put on a new string you know what I mean like yeah I want to play music and I want to have fun I don't want to be fucking stressed out like you know and so that's when I switched with day if he started

singing and that's why I started playing guitar we did the next record haymaker and then after that was kind of when I was telling you about the split off between like um 18 was just ready to go full time before what Throwdown was. Yeah. Yeah. That's such a hard time. And also, and also I say that 18 Visions

just had more of like, Throwdown was a little bit more boxed in musically, whereas 18 Visions like, internally we were like, the sky's the limit. What's right? Whatever we want. Yeah.

And so that's as a musician, you know, growing up, like I said, on classic rock and growing up like on smashing pumpkins and all these kind of things, like it was exciting to explore anything I wanted. So that's, that's kind of why I went that way. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so hard for you, man. Like, I can't imagine loving a band. Yeah. And then you gotta move on. Yeah. No, that sucks. I can't imagine that.

Dude, that sucks. It totally sucks. Fuck, man. But it seems like you really had a home in 18 Visions. It seemed like you really had like this is like your home. This is like. Yeah. I just really connected with those guys, James and Mick.

And at the time, I was Brandon and Ken. And I just. had so many similarities especially like with some of like the more aggressive types of metal like we're talking about cannibal and yeah or some of like the more chaotic stuff like botch and like um like we talked about all those kinds of bands I didn't really talk about those kinds of bands with like throw down or like you know death by star or something like when I was in 18 Visions like we talked about that kind of like super insane like evil shit or we talked about like the

really cool fucking grimy rock shit you know yeah like Allison Chains type stuff. Like, so I don't know. I just, we just vibed. I was closer to that vibe as a person too with those guys. Wow. Yeah, you guys just vibe.

It seems like you guys had more of like an open dialogue. It seems like with like music and like where you wanted to go. Yeah, I think it was more about like where could we go. With Throwdown we knew what we were doing. We knew there was a little bit more of a formula.

You know what I mean? Yeah. We love that style of music. Of course. Like we fucking loved it. But it was like, you know, there's only so far, like, I know we tried to like, like on the, um, we did like a face the mirror EP. And like we tried to incorporate a few elements of like maybe like the deaf tones or something like that. We were exploring just a teeny bit there.

Um, but like it felt a little weird and like, I can't really, it just felt like a little bit too, um, I don't know, like I was boxed in. Yeah. You know, um, so it was more like, let's just fucking write breakdowns and fucking sing a little. and just make that a super fun live thing, right? That's how I approached that. Yeah. So that was kind of an outlet for that, whereas 18 was more of an outlet for like, explore. Yeah, you really had no boundaries.

Yeah. And that showed. You guys did whatever the fuck you wanted musically and with the whole image and stuff. And you took old fans and new fans for a whole ride. And each record's different, but it still has. like the sound like this is like this is a sound like more like what you're like like like when a band like rings out you just has like a sound yeah when the band is rings out like when you guys ring out my damn that's fucking 18 visions like i i i think about like a i think about like a

a peevee head yeah with like a mesa cab yeah totally i remember like seeing like there was like a they don't ever get old to me no that's that vibe no that that's just the same sound. Remember, like, some bands had, like, this old school PB cab. So weird, like, memory I just had, like, all your bands using that, this fucking PB cab. Like, what, what cab is that? Yeah. Holy shit, but it just had that sound. I just bought a new PV cab. Yeah? Oh, six. Nice. Yeah, no, dude, I love the, you know, that sound. Like, I've,

I've got, like, a helix, and I just dial in the 5150, you know, with Tube Screamer. I love the, you know, that old corpse vibe. Yeah. you know, Earth Crisis kind of had that sound back in the 90s and, yeah, yeah, machinehead. All those kind of like 90s metal stuff. I love that tone. I love mixing that with some, like, hard rock and hardcore stuff that, like,

it wasn't necessarily initially, you know, intentionally for or where it came from, but it was cool to fuck with. Like, I kept picturing, as 18 was kind of moving into, like, vanity and obsession and stuff like that, I kept picturing, like, I want to write these rock riffs with this extreme metal tone and so it would just be even heavier and that will produce like a vibe

like I'm not necessarily and I've kind of always been this way I don't really care if you hear all the notes I'm playing I care same seriously I care about the vibe you get when you hear like oh that just sounds fucking disgusting like you know what I mean like live I'm sure like we play we we use way too much gain but that's I think that's sick yeah it's sick dude yeah dude it's just like it's just more about sounding like intense you know yeah dude same way I'm like I don't really care about the nose here coming out it's like

but there but there's a certain feeling yeah yeah you care about more of like like the feeling and sound yeah you know yeah you know really put the fucking nail on that was like uh I remember talking to uh to Pat from cannibal corpse and I do you I'll do I was like, can I play your rig? He's like, sure, man. And like, his game was at 10. I was like, why, why is your gain at 10? Dude, it's like, it's too much.

I was like, no, it sounds great. Was it like a triple wreck or something? Yeah, oh yeah, triple wreck on 10. But the fucking metal zone in front, like, I was like, oh yeah, there's no rules. Yeah. There's no rule. If it sounds great. Yeah.

10, fuck it. Yeah. You know, all that rules. I know. I love that. It's just, dude, still, to the stay, I always go by that. Like, if it feels right, I mean. Yeah.

You know, and you guys definitely had that, and bands are still copying it. You know, it's copying that, that tone. Did you use a tube screamer on the PB? Yeah. It sounds like there's not one. It kind of depends on what stage, I think, things were at. Like, you know, in the earlier days, like, maybe I couldn't afford one. Yeah.

And then as time went on, I did. And then as time went on, I think, like, a lot of musicians, like, I just, kept getting more pedals and adding them and then I'm like fuck I don't have enough feat to like go from clean channel with delay and reverb to go to like distortion with tube screamer yeah it sucks yeah so that's why I like the helix yeah yeah I don't know how you accomplished it because when you have a pb and a two screamer you just go instantly into machine head category if you play it no matter where your hands but if you say you had a true scrimmer in front of peevee and you don't have to sound like damn you it's really in your hands yeah i'm really surprised like i didn't even think about

like those tones yeah and that's fucking hard to do man yeah i think i think maybe like as i think maybe we did on vanity i want to say but i don't think we did on until link runs out um so i'm not sure i don't i can't remember those details i know it's tough on you just like what what i use yeah where was i yeah where was i yeah No, do you guys, you guys did it. That's a hard thing to do. You know, there's like a certain sound with a certain band. But you still had your sound.

It's awesome. Thanks. And still doing it. Yeah. Have you fucked with EVHs? No, I haven't, but I would love to. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I always played a 15-1-50 or I had a triple rectifier.

Great. we got a long time ago 18 got you know some gear from Mesa and so we just played with those for years live and then in the studio we kind of fuck with both okay you know I the 50 150 because I had an older one it had the classic problem where like the audio would drop for whatever reason this has happened to so many people that own this old 5150s like yeah it'd be great and then we'd kind of drop out and then we'd kind of come back in

yeah fuck so frustrating and you'd like take it like to the craziest wizard and like he still couldn't figure it out so that's why we went to rectify us because they were just like more trustworthy but apparently now like the new shade is all sick and I would love to check one out but um I've been really focused on over the last um three years really just you know making like a really simple fly rig and and um that that can have the sound that I want you know um it's tough yeah so I feel like I've got it dialed in I got to play those, you know, we finally got to play some shows again. So it took a long time to get here, but I feel like I found something that works.

Yeah. It's fun. You guys did, we did the same thing that you guys did. Well, peeves our sound, but the volume could drop. We were out in the road, and it's just dropping. You're like, dude, what, what the fuck? And then, and then we went, we met Mesa. Yeah.

We did the same thing that you guys did. Okay. And now the same thing's happening with Mesa. Like, there's, you know, just dropping volume. Oh, really? Yeah. It's a fucking common problem. All you want is a consistent, heavy sound.

That's all we fucking want. And it's so hard to get, dude. Come on. God. It's want to be loud and no unnecessary gain. Dude, I've had this fantasy forever of just having my own, like, guitar head company. You know, the company's just called heavy. And it would just be like the most.

distortion you ever heard yeah and fuck it it would just be that's that's that's that's that's like a life goal yeah um i'm trying not them to be like a whole a whole geek with the with with with with the gear what how was it uh doing vanity did you get uh how was the like reaction because i remember like being i like being a fan people were talking about that it was like a switch yeah um because it really was like the first time we did like something different um um although I think in between those time periods, we put out our best-up record, and, like, there was one new song out motionless and white. And that song James was singing on in a portion of the song. And so that was the first time we were like, hmm.

And James, like, was like, whoa, maybe I can do some of that shit, you know, whatever. And so that's where Vanity kind of went from there. Yeah. But the reception-wise, you know, we made an album and we made the whole thing pink. and everyone was like what the fuck you know especially like anyone that was like traditional hardcore was like dude what the fuck is this you know and we were like yes and um i don't know we just uh i can't remember why at the time i remember at that like around that same period um i had like a pentegram shirt but it was like it was a pink shirt with a pinagram on it just like i don't

know. It was just two weird things happening, too pink, but pentagram? But I loved it, and I loved that it was just kind of like made it fucked with people's heads. And I worked on the graphic design for that record with a friend of mine

who kind of led it, and I don't know. We all talked about it, and that's just kind of what happened. But the reception musically was pretty good. Like, a lot of people liked that record, although they were freaked out by it, you know. even like we did a broke light glass video that came out so then that got played on like mtb2 and stuff

like that yeah yeah um it's funny you say vanity and like all these things start coming back to my mind like um but yeah i think overall um if there was anyone that was more like to the traditional hardcore they were like maybe too freaked out or something yeah but uh i think it helped solidify the fans that were like interested in what we were trying to do musically you know they were like wow they're kind of like doing this too like that's you know and so they kind of we brought those with us

I think yeah you know like who like you're a true fans are right yeah that was kind of the first step into like figuring that out a little bit more yeah um so yeah it's a it's a fun time when you see that you know you see like see who who's who's along for the ride You know? Like, oh shit, people are actually like it. Okay. Yeah. You know. And it was such a crucial time like...

And we were doing weird tours and stuff at the time too. There was like hardcore tours. But then we were also doing like, like I said, like the Lamb of God tour and like, you know, there was mushroom head. And we started playing with like we did, I mean, we've done plenty of like weird tours over the years just playing to different types of people. We did a tour in Canada with strung out. Wow. Like random stuff. But just trying to just play to everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that should be the rule, right? I mean, that was our rule.

Let's play up front of everybody. Yeah. Like, who fucking cares? Yeah. You know, metal, hardcore, who cares? For sure. And then some people fucking stick around. Yeah, especially if like, you know, how it was for you guys, but like, especially

when you're trying to like take it as far as you can, you know, you want to play to people that haven't heard you. Of course. You know, you want to play, there's, we knew everyone from the Harkersene already heard us, you know. So we started doing weird different things and we were like picking up different types of people along the way, you know? Yeah. And I think that was, yeah, that's definitely part of the strategy, you know. And the time frame you guys were doing it is very important because, I mean, it's a little bit more open-minded now. I mean, hardcore metal and all the sub-dronos kind of be in one package.

But back then, like, he couldn't make it. It's like you just couldn't fucking mix it and like you know something that's simple is like you know having like like like a fucking pink cover Yeah, it's a big no-no yeah, but but because it's like don't do that you have to do that Yeah, you have to. Oh, that's exactly why we did it sure. Yeah, you yeah it was just like we we were we were I mean that was a huge like There are no rules and and from from just visually aesthetically you walk in a story this we knew it was gonna like you know at that time. I think it was like is it on the end? I mean cap of Best Buy that was like a big thing at that time or whatever you know you walk in a store and like there's like a new release section right so it stood out you know and so that's true that was definitely part of the goal yeah um especially if you like put it in like a metal section or something like

you know or the punk section or whatever the section happened to be yeah like it would stand out you know um but yeah do you guys ever worry about sticking out you know because like all that bands don't want to stick I mean, how, was there like, oh, shit, we do this, like, we're going to lose our fans. Or, like, you just do it. No, we didn't. Because in some ways, we kind of just kept getting, and I'll just speak for myself, I, I just felt like I kept getting rewarded. We kept doing our own thing, and I felt like I kept getting rewarded in the sense that, you know, we'd get on a label. And then, like, other labels were interested for a while there.

It was like, Roadrunner was interested in us and stuff like. And then eventually we got to like the major label thing that happened. They were interested and so I and we kept getting on cool tours. We got to play fun fest and we were able to play with so many different types of bands. So we could do a tour with like Under Oath and Every Time I die or something like that. But then we could also, we would do like a full US tour with him. You know and like maybe musically that was a little off but vibe wise if you think of about him and kind of dark vibe.

Like, it was perfect. Like, we love, you know. Yeah. So, we didn't really, you know, and the only way that, like, you could worry about it, it was like, if you don't fall into a pocket, sometimes you can get lost, because there are a lot of people that just kind of be like,

oh, I love this band, and this new band sounds like that band I love, therefore I like them too. Like they can get clumped together. You know what I mean? Genre-wise. And because we were kind of fucking with our genre so much, it was hard to say sometimes like what we were also like, you know? Yeah.

Like the band Helmet comes to mind because I was a huge fan of Helmet when I was younger. And they're like a heavy band, really raw and just sick. they didn't really fall in with metal. They didn't really fall in with hardcore or punk or anything. They didn't really have a place, not even like alternative or grunge, even though when they got big was around that time, they just kind of like were in their own lane.

And I think in some ways that can be a detriment if you're in your own lane too much because, yeah, you won't siphon off a little bit of that. Oh, they're just like apriot, so, you know, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately, the only way you could figure that out is when you have to do it to know where the boundary is. That's unfortunate.

If you're the kind of band that push the boundary, sometimes you do push it too much. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But that's the only way to know how far you can push it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't...

Honestly, with 18 Visions, I don't think there was ever, like, a boundary we were worried about, like, exploring musically. You know, the craziest we went was the self-titled record that was, like, that came after obsession, and that was kind of before we broke up the first time. and um but that was the exact record that we wanted to make we weren't worried about it by any means and it and actually like it made perfect sense at that point we were on a major label um and

all those songs were written and accepted by the label like we weren't like tailoring anything it was just like we wrote like 30 songs and like here's our favorites and then and then i don't know it was just um yeah like i said before it was just complete freedom and that's kind of the way that we always kind of try to set ourselves up yeah how did the record deal with epic come about um because it was actually pretty sick we were recording the obsession record and at that time it was still going to be a truskill record i think it actually came out on trust kill for most people outwardly looking um but when we were in the mixing phase of that record um um um An A&R guy came from Epic and checked us out.

And it turns out he was an old Huntington Beach hardcore guy. Oh, wow. Which was so rad. You know, he was older than us and stuff like that. But like he used to be straight edge and the whole bit. So he just kind of got where we were coming from. While at the same time, he kind of got musically what we were kind of messing around with. And he felt like, dude, this could be like maybe, you know, maybe this would work on a major, you know.

So anyways, he was really interested in that. So that popped off while we were doing that record But it was kind of decided like it would still be out on trust kill But we knew that the next one would be through epic So the two records were kind of like major really Although one was came out as trust kill you know yeah And then so yeah then the next one was proper epic Yeah so like the self-titled is that's epic yeah and an obsession was like the

Yeah And you guys did that record with Machine. Yeah. How the fuck was that? It was the best thing ever. He's just, he's just this super excitable guy. I mean, I love being around, you know, people like this, especially in a creative space. Like, he's a very excitable guy.

Like, he gets like, he gets like that glint in his eyes and he's like, oh, this, you know, let's, you know, and so he gets excited really easily. Super creative, super, like, emotional type of responding to things. of person like he hears music and like it just reacts you know so it's like an infectious kind of thing in the studio it's really fun to be around yeah he's a very uh eccentric guy yeah very eccentric yeah he's he's fucking crazy but but in the best way yeah great guy i think we think we did a record right after you did the self-titled with him oh yeah i think he he correct correct me if i'm wrong but he mentioned like you guys recorded it and everything individually.

Like, like, symbols, and then a tom, and then the next Tom, and then the snare. Kind of. We separated the symbols and the rest of the kit. Okay. So, yeah, we went to, like, Ocean Way Studios in L.A. You know, we got, like, the Black Album, snare, and, like, the Nevermind snare.

We were kids in the candy store, recording-wise, and everything. And I got told you earlier, like, the recording studio is my favorite thing in the world. Like, it's just I love that. process of like what are we going to make yeah um so it was so fun and yeah so he was doing the drum separately from the symbols which was later but then also we would also like loop i mean you know everything now is kind of chopped up in logic or pro tools or whatever you know now anyways but like um we were kind of doing some of that in uh in session like we would just kind of loop apart

and so we just like all the the tom part whatever and then get a good take of that and we take that and then put things together and all, you know. Yeah, machine just kind of had his own way of doing things and I don't know at that time if he'd ever done that before where he separated stuff but it was really interesting

we'd never done it before. So we're like, yeah, sounds cool. I mean, the record sounds great. I assume he mixed it too, right? The whole nine? Yeah. Yeah, that's a very machine thing to do. Yeah.

Dude, sounds awesome. Yeah, you did a great job. We love it. And how was the... So that was the first, record officially on Epic, how was a rollout plan? So that was interesting. So everything's

done and when it's come to like at that point in time, singles were like still a thing where it was like radio and like hard rock radio and like all stuff. It's still like mattered and there were still like DJs that were playing stuff and whatever. So when we came out we wanted to go with the song Victim being our first

single we won't i mean our strategy internally was we want to do a few rock songs and then we want to do something more like a ballad and um so establish ourselves as like you know a heavy rock band um whereas epic was just short-sided uh on the deal it was unfortunate because everything up until that point was like we were all on the same page and then it was like once that record was delivered and totally done it was like okay so we want to go out with the song to knightless which was the last song of the record, which was, you know, kind of more like, it'd be more like radio-friendly or whatever. I mean, we loved all the songs, of course, but like, it didn't make sense. Yeah.

Like, from everywhere we've come as a band, like, our first foot forward would be, like, heavy riffs. Like, we're... Yeah. It didn't make any sense to make the first, on any record we've ever done. It would, we wouldn't want to do that. But they were like, okay, we'll give you this shitload of money to do a video for Tonightless, and we'll give you a little bit of money to do victim. What?

And we were like, we thought. long and hard about it and at that point it was like look guys we're fucking here we're on the major um if if we want to be successful and be able to put on another record I mean we kind of have to go with um go with that

that money flow at this point you know because they're really going to push you know whether it's a tour or whether it's like a video or anything they're going to push that they're not going to push it so anyway so we came out with Tynetless we did the sick video our friend did it was like everything was great

that stuff turned out great but at the radio stations they came back and they were like oh yeah this tonight the song is really cool but this other song victim is fucking sick we want to play that one and so it was a really weird thing where like everything turned around and like

they started pushing victim everywhere that was totally like grassroots from coming back from the radio stations and it was the ultimate like we told you so yeah and yeah we made a victim video and then like yeah it was like

it was like the SummerSlam WWE song and like all these things started and then we did really good at rock radio it like it went really well once we turned course which was only like within like a month or something it happened pretty fast yeah once we turned course and went with victim

things were like okay we're in the pocket this is what we should have been doing yeah when it came time to do a second video or um single we wanted to come out with the second song on the record which was another rock song um and they were like, no, we're not doing it.

We're going to go with brokenhearted, which was the ballad. Yeah. And it was just too soon. Too soon. It was just, you know, I feel like, James and I would talk about, like, looking back on it, I feel like they could gamble with us. Whereas, like, you know, at the same time they put out a record, they also put out, like, incubus.

And I think, like, audio slave or something. Yeah. Those ones they can just, like, bank money on, right? a band like us they're like we're not gonna like we don't have to give them like a long time you know like we can kind of like do whatever we want like we don't have to pump

we don't have like it's not like there's not like there like they're not gonna wait three years on us you know what I mean yeah there's so like let's try and like just do what we can and if it works it works if not whatever yeah that's kind of how we felt it went you know so in the end after like

it went that route we didn't even do a video for a broken heart after that and then and then yeah and then we got dropped and then at that point we had made a decision myself and the other guitar player Ken we had had like a talk and it was like

dude our whole career has just been like this so if it ever comes to the time where like it starts to come back let's just let's stop at the top and that's what the vibe was at that time yeah so we guys on a on a tour we started having those thoughts yeah we had like a specific talk conversation I remember

we were in the UK. I don't remember where we were on the touring cycle for the record or anything like that, but yeah, Ken and I both agreed, like, dude, like, this has been so sick. But let's not, like, be one of those bands that, like, just goes downhill. Yeah.

And then, like, runs it into the ground kind of a thing. Like, you know, we've kind of always done what we want, you know? Yeah. So that's when the decision was made. Yeah, it's a hard, it's a hard combo to have. Yeah. But you need, like, a lot of self-awareness

to do I have that? Yeah, totally. And I think, like, some of the coolest bands, you know, have done stuff like that were, like, at the top, and then they, you know, and they call it quits or whatever, you know, like, you just, yeah, on your own terms kind of a thing, you know. Well, because then, I mean, without you guys knowing, maybe you... So our manager was, like, trying to push us to, like, demo more songs

to go out to more major labels and all that stuff. And we were like, no, we're good. Especially after that kind of, like, experience. Yeah. And it sucks being a band. Like you're like you spend all the time on the songs. You record a song. Everything's sick and perfect.

But then like the last fucking second like they can mess up like a like a rollout. Yeah. Like was there? Did it really feel like this is the wrong song to put out? This is like we want to put out this song. This feels right. This is like that this is it. I mean and it's so weird like from a major like how a song like that victim sounds like too heavy.

But to me, I heard him like, that's perfect to roll out. That's perfect. Yeah, totally. And then this... Yeah, there's just some people... So our A&R guy from the label, he fucking got it. He knew. He knew.

Like, he was, like, debating, like, should it be... There was another song that was kind of like a heavier song called Coma on the record. And, like, we were trying to debate, like, which one of those we were going to go with, you know? Yeah. And so it was, like, totally out of right feel when, like, the, you know, I don't know who even made the decision. but it's always like a it's like a fucking board meeting you know when they're trying to talk about so like our a and our guy was doing the right thing by us you know it was just he was hands were tied damn but it's all right because the fucking the fucking the djs came back anyways and we're like we're gonna play victim like that's the one that's sick because when they sent out the single it was kind of like a side B victim was added on as a side B or something and so they got to hear it too and they were like oh well you sent this to a rock radio station let's play the fucking you know yeah god man geez and we got to like number six seven it was sick so frustrating dude yeah god but honestly that type of stuff like for me personally uh it doesn't matter so much like for me it's about making a cool record and that's why it's like

i don't really think too much about the rest of the stuff it's like can i make something that'll that's cool and exciting and make the other guys in the band excited and whatever like yeah it's honestly like that's it's on the shelf and i feel proud of it you know i mean good stoked I mean, it's still a great, you know, album. It sounds awesome. And you guys, you know, for all you guys to be stoked on what you're putting out and proud, that's a hard thing to do. Yeah.

Like, because usually someone or a couple guys are, like, you know, not really there. But if you guys are all stoked and proud, that's a very hard thing to everyone to be online about the same page. Super fucking tough. You just got to be honest with yourself, you know, all the way, you know. Don't worry about what everybody else's, you know, seasons change and shit. You got to be honest with yourself. Yeah.

Damn, that's true. Yeah, man, just like, as a musician, like, I feel like, in a weird way, this is going to sound familiar. Like, I see a band, and, like, some bands, they've got it together. You watch their live show, they're, like, going off. They're, like, they look like everything is, like, cool and all the stuff. And then you see a band where, like, they don't look cool, but, like, you can tell it's honest. That's the shit that sticks with me. Like this guy maybe doesn't look like he's been playing bass for like maybe two years

Something like that but you can tell he learned so that he can be in this band and it's fucking like That's what it is for him and I that's the kind of thing I relate to like dude like he's He's he's fucking stoked you know yeah so it's just just about just doing for yourself Totally and uh and you don't really have like a cliche like story where it's like Oh, you went on tour, are you all on focus and probably drinking too much? Like, you were, you were pretty much not drinking, right? Yeah, we've always been a strange band.

Wow. So, yeah, we were all, we made a lot of friends along the way of like, you know, hey, you guys won our beers? Like, all the other bands were stoked. Damn. You know? So, yeah, it just was never our vibe. We just always stuck to that, you know? even with all those temptations you guys were focused and stayed true yeah um i mean it wasn't

the stuff wasn't tempting to us at all like it just wow you know part of like you know everyone's different but like i know with like some of my closer friends or guys that are straightage and stuff like that you know if you're for a long enough period of time um it's just kind of the way you are and it's just where you're comfortable, you know? You know, so for us, that was just what's comfortable. You know, like, I never, we would go to parties or we would go to, like, places, whatever, where all that stuff was going on,

but, like, I just didn't connect with it. I was always, like, I'll go back to the bunk and watch a sick movie. Or work on a song, or, I don't know. Growing up, that's just how I always was. So it just feels like, you know, You know, we weren't trying to, like, not drugs. We weren't, like, trying to not drink, you know. Wow, it was just natural for you.

Yeah, yeah, it was just, that's just the way we always were, and that's just kind of the people we are, you know, and we hang out together as friends are like, you know, it's the same thing. Let's go get coffee. Let's, let's, you know, connect. Let's go see a movie or go to a game or whatever, you know. Man, dude, I admire that. That just sounds so impossible to me.

that's the fact you were able to do that and be cool with it that's so shocking in me wow and do I admire like you know all my friends from you know from the showcase days like you know like Gabe from Bown and Blood shout out

just all my friends who have big Josh Josh Goddard one of the OG drummers of Suissezance like there is still a straight edge I'm just like wow that's I just admire that people that are focused and just stay true and are honest with

themselves and don't let like the outside affect who they are Yeah, I just I think you just got to look at it as like That's just how you know That's just who some people are You know, they're just not into it whatever You know, I think like

Henry Rollins the same way He's just like It's just not his vibe You know, it's like I'd rather like go work out or listen to records Like you know Or I'ma Ma Kai like those people like I'll obviously gravitate them

Because I have a similar headspace Headspace so it would speak to me When I'd hear them talk and they're just rad people but yeah it's not like a chore I think probably maybe for some like people who are trying to stay sober or they're you know they're using straight age

as a way to stay sober or something like that you know I think maybe it is a chore for them it's hard for them to be around people and you know yeah and so but there are just people who are just like oh that's just not my thing wow and we were talking earlier what like

like the straight edge scene and you know I I became straight edge because of throw down you. I was, you know, I was, I would read, it's crazy. I would read the lyrics and then, you know, I'm singing straight edge lyrics. I'm like, I don't know why, but just kind of, I mean, that should like save my life. I, if I was, if I was shrinking back then, I probably wouldn't something's fucking stupid. And I was wondering, like, there was a lot of confusion back then, like, what,

what you can and can't do you, what is straight edge? Like, what, like, what is straight edge to, to you? Yeah. um you know and it's the way i look at it is just it's about being um it's about being clear-headed um i've got the straight edge you know is the minor threat that's where everything comes from is from minor threat so i look at it very very kind of simplistically um i have i've got the straight edge the lyrics tattooed on my chest that's that's the minor threat i you know i it was like on my minor threat tape you know i i um so i don't really look too much beyond that

you know i'm a person just like you but i got better things to do um those that just that speaks to me um it makes sense to me um i'd rather be going to a cool movie and being inspired to like write like music or whatever like at that time at that age it was like instead of of going out to a party and like hanging out with all these people and like being fucked up or whatever like it would just be me and a few friends would we go skate you know it's like we'll get in my car we'll put in some sick music and we'll go find a skate spot and the three of us could just hang out and talk connect we're know we're all going through a lot of shit in high school or whatever it is or like we're sharing like music or like this and that you know so there's all kinds of stuff to

connect with people about and i think that's just my personal like um personality that's that's what i'm into You know, that's where I find, that's where I find, like, I'm happy is, like, a small group talking about things that we think is cool and, you know, connecting. I get weirded out when I'm, like, around people that are, like, all drunk and, like, I can't really connect with them. Like, am I by myself? I don't know. Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, that's, as far as, like, all the other stuff with Straight Edge, I just, I try to keep it simple.

One funny thing I remember, I was in Adamantium. And we did a tour and we played in Florida. And we saw these kids outside the show and they were exed up. And they were smoking cigarettes. Oh, shit. Yeah. And I was like, I asked them like, what's the deal with that? And they're like, yeah, it's straight a judge now.

I wouldn't do drugs. They're like, but you smoke? You know, it's just everyone has their different take on it from, you go to different places in the world. and it's funny. Like you were saying earlier, like some people are like, no sex, you know, this and that.

And it's just like, no, that's not really what it was for me. I could understand, like, the promiscuous thing, but I think that's just kind of, there's a lot of kind of truisms universally in life.

Like, don't over and abuse anything, you know. Yeah. You know, try to, you know, be good to people, you know, just treat people with respect.

Yeah. Kind of falls in that category. I don't know that it's necessarily a strange thing, you know. Yeah. Wow. I was yeah I was I was like man

is Keith one one of those guys I can't that doesn't drink coffee I was like is it offensive by asking him if he wants a coffee I don't know

you know I'm so I'm so used to Gabe yeah there you go I'm so used to Gabe saying he doesn't drink caffeine I was like I don't know for him that's that's that's edge

it's so sick apparently you can smoke too apparently I wouldn't but I guess some people can that's that that's the florida's rate edge yeah yeah i wonder if that's still a thing i don't know what

what did you think you're like like they're extop but they're smoking i think at the time i was like i don't think these guys like if dug far enough into the revelation catalog or something you know what i mean like yeah maybe they haven't heard some of the youth of today i don't know what i was like but i was probably just thinking like wow that's that's not that's not really you know what i mean like yeah that's not straightage. It's like, wow. Yeah, I guess every place has a has their own thing. Yeah, but I mean, really, I think what it is a little higher level, it's just about like helping you get through life in a way that doesn't like negatively impact people around you or yourself, you know, whether that's with your job or your family, you know, your friendships, all those kinds of things.

So if, you know, stradage for you is just like having a drink every once in a while, whatever, I mean, that's not really straightage necessarily, but like if that's what's helpful for your, you know, that's your vibe, dude, I get it. You know what I mean? It's just, it's just all about like, trying to be good, you know, for for yourself and the people around you. And, you know, I've come to this, like, thing, this debate with people in the past with my friends about, can you sell out straightage and then be straightage again? Yeah. Right. Like, like a thing. So I've always been on the side of like, yeah. like why would you not want someone like I don't like you know like if you're not now you never were or like if you sell out then you can never be sure like this seems so silly like because the way I look at is like this is a

this is a helpful tool for people's lives you know I mean it it just so happens it aligned with the way I am kind of personally anyways but like I think for some people like it helps them with their you know with their life

and so why would you not want anyone to revisit that, you know. Wow. Man, some people need, need to hear that back in a day because they both have like, you know, those same conversations when we're kids. Oh, you sold out and you're like, you like can't come back here. You can't, dude.

It's such like a small, minded way of thinking. It is. Again, it's just the rules, man. Just like, just drop it and realize that like we're all people. We're all going through shit. Yeah. And like, you know. Yeah, it's all good.

I know. I remember there was a time where, I mean, I didn't. drink or smoke until I was 21. But, you know, when, uh, like, being a teenager, I like, I like, stopped claiming edge, you know? And then I remember being at like a party hanging out. I said, I haven't drink or smoke yet at all. I think that point I'm 19.

I'm like, you know, I want to be edge again. And so on said like, uh, it's like, you know what? You can't, you can do that, man. I was like, why? So funny. Why? Why? I haven't drank or smoked. I'm still, I'm good.

Yeah. It's like, no, you can't, man. I was like, I guess I'm, I'm, guess I'm not edge anymore. You can do whatever the fuck you want to do Dude that's what it is It's just do whatever the fuck you want to do man Whatever you're stoked on Just get more stoked on it

Yeah Wow that is a fucking way of life man Yeah Whatever you're stoked on just get more stoked on it Yeah dude just go further Yeah you're a very simple guy And it's very hard to have simple To put things in a simple perspective

Because those are things like stay with you it's like a simple riff yeah it's like wow it hits you i think yeah you know i do design as a career and it just it i don't know why it makes sense with my brain or whatever but like yeah keeping something simple adding complexity only when needed um those are kind of like philosophical things, you know, you know, like minimalism, stoicism, these types of things. Like, I love to, like, read about and think about.

And I think they really, you know, can help you. Because that's what it is. It's about how can you clear your mind to be more simple so that you can, you know, you feel better as a person, therefore you're better to the people around you and stuff like that, you know? I think it's so easy to get caught up

and all the things that are happening. you know, online or in the world or whatever. But, you know, fuck, we're all so, like, beaten down by all the responsibilities we have anyways. Just try to keep it simple, you know? Yeah, you're right. It's like, I love, like, if you're getting bored, you're on the right path.

That means you're simplifying. That means, like, okay, that means you can take in maybe some more. Like, you know, it's okay to be bored sometimes. Just chill. It's chill, man. Yeah. you're right, it's so hard it made things simple. Yeah.

Little things, you know, how hard is it to write a simple riff? Yeah, totally. How hard is that shit, dude? I know. Still, to this day, it blows my mind. I know. It's the simplest thing. You can just tweak it.

Like, wait, me, you should go this way. You should go this way. You know, and then you, like, come back to the original. Oh, dude. It was so simpler when I was doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that first initial idea is usually, like, 90% of time.

That's like, that's like, that's like. Yeah. You may tweak it a little bit, but that's the 80-20 of that riff. Totally. You know? Totally. And then like, then your brain comes in and wants to like overcomplicate it, you know. And then, oh, well, you know, if I do this, so they're like impressed like these guitar players.

Like this stupid thoughts you have. Yeah. Man, it's like, it shocks me to this day, like how it's that those thoughts still creep in. Like, you know, outside influence, which you seem to be really good at, just staying honest with yourself. You know, it's a hard thing to do when you have so much, like, noise around you. Yeah, I mean, I'm influenced by stuff just like anyone else, but I feel like maybe I just, I take it in maybe a slightly different way. I mean, I just, I get stoked on the things that I let in. Like I, whether it's my social media or whatever, like, I, I have everything filtered in a way that, like, I just, I only want, like, things that can inspire me.

Yeah. To do more or, you know, stuff like that, you know. It just helps keep, yeah, my world clean, you know. Yeah. if there's if if if if i notice something that that is kind of like yeah setting me off in a weird way or like you know throwing my mind through a for a left curve i usually just get rid of that stuff and and filter it out you know have to you men you only have a short a very small mental like capacity like they can't know anything yeah why why allow more yeah in design it's cognitive load and it's and it's like it's what it's what you call it and when you so for example like a you know, an app or a website, you go to that page and there's a certain amount of information on that. And like, if there's too much information, it's too much cognitive load, you're going to get exhausted, you're not going to know what to do, whatever. So you do kind of have to

lead them through a simple experience of exposing them to, to whether it's data or information in the right kind of way so that they don't get overwhelmed like that. You know, it's the same thing musically. I find this is a truism with like guitar solos, right? Like, if you have a guitar soul on every song for an entire record like I'm kind of over your guitar soul's like I just like if you're doing them all the time like I'm just you know I just that's when it starts to become a little bit of noise

you know but like if it's tasteful here and there and like in just the right points that's like cool it added something it's not just there to be there yeah and that's a hard thing you do man and just plain playing for the song yeah it's hard to know when to like just

scale it back totally yeah because then you're you're your stupid brain comes in make it more complicated let me show you what I can do show you sure I want to how fucking good I am I want to everyone don't like me God

just keep your things simple man especially in talking like leads and solos yeah dude it's it's in a way you're more vulnerable when you're doing like a simple lead because you can't hide behind notes yeah you know yeah

it's like you're really putting it you know as obviously you guys are pros at this point you just kind of put your neck out there, play only what you should be playing for that part. Try. Yeah. Yeah, I never really got into solos that much

like growing up. I was more into just riffs and I just like, yeah, it's because it's a vibe I don't know, but some of the slower more tasteful, not necessarily tasteful, like because some stuff is super tasteful that's fast as fuck but yeah. Yeah, for some reason it just

those kind of spoke to me again I don't know maybe it's just because it's simpler or something made it memorable in a way you know but there's definitely like lots of Slayer solos where I'm just like I can go like in my head when it comes on I know yeah or sometimes it's that we're like oh shit like that noise makes sense yeah exactly yeah

it just needs to be crazy here but the bandline Slayer you you could tell that like that's them that's like that's like That's like in his heart. Yeah. That that fucking crazy noise. Yeah.

It's why it just hits us a certain way. Totally. That always fascinates me too where like if you hear a solo but it's complicated but it hits you the same way as like a simple riff. But oh, that's like that's rare. Yeah. And that always like fascinates me more too. My favorite solo. Some of my favorite solos were by Dean DeLio who's the guitar player from Stone Temple Pilots.

Nice. And he would do. the weirdest solos just off time weird sounds just like almost like he's

fucking up but he's just this is the same thing that I got from Unbroken too actually when they would play live when

they would play a song and then in the middle of it go into a different song or like they would just um just

hitting the strings and all of a sudden like the like we were talking about earlier about a vibe instead of the actual notes yeah like it was just like you're kind of you were just feeling the vibe and they were feeling the vibe they're just like not even playing notes anymore it's just chaos you know or something yeah um that's kind of how like his solos would just be like so off and weird um i don't know just a cool raw vibe yeah you know do the raw vibes dude

yeah always go back to like uh if you go like an early corn record or really stuntman on just hear that the raw vibes is crazy dude totally god ross robinson a fucking master of that shit i know right yeah it's just uh gross incredible yeah i remember uh we were talking about markey earlier yeah uh he's the original throw down drummer yeah he uh he showed me the first slipnot record nice in his car one night i think it was after a show we played or something he had it in his sick and yeah then i heard sick that's it and i was just like holy shit this is so rad You know, and then like, yeah, then you see the cover and everything and they got the mass and everything. I'm like, whoa, what the fuck is this, you know?

But they're so brutal, you know. Yeah, it's crazy we all kind of say the same thing. What the fuck is this? Yeah. You know? Loved it. It was like so much energy. Like, just such crazy energy.

That band is so, dude, that Iowa records, that's my favorite one, the Iowa. It's just. Same. Really? Yeah. Oh, so punishing. To me, I think that's the heaviest record of all time. Yeah.

On all levels. like it's still like there's there's songs in there the rest are crazy it's raw that's when I go back to and reference personally when writing music like if I'm going for like a crazy energy like almost frantic

frantic is a right word vibe especially the vocals on that record are crazy dude is probably my favorite like heavy vocals you know like just how do you you sound like you're fucking dying or something then like you but you still have like I can still kind of tell what you're saying

Like how do you fucking Corey's like the The best at that God, so sick You guys, you guys kind of had that reaction too Like if if you see a pink record You're like, what the fuck is this? It's a hard reaction to get Yeah

You know, because you can't really force that Yeah You know, you got to, that only kind of comes from Putting your neck out there Something that's simple is someone Looking at your band or listening to your band And saying like, what the fuck is this? It's a hard thing to accomplish

Yeah It's hard Yeah. It's hard to you to stick out. Now that you have hindsight, what are you most proud of? Hmm. A lot of stuff. I'm proud of the fact that, yeah, I kind of tried to stay true to myself. I'm very proud of like the fact that I've just been able to like put out records and just have and even to this to the

day, you know, still making music and, and putting records on the shelf. And it's not about, like, collecting things, you know, whatever. It's just, it's, um, it's an outlet for me, you know what I mean? So, um, I'm proud of the fact that I've kind of got to myself to a point now where I can still play. I can still, like, record music, but I can also have a family and I can have a career and all that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? Like, um, it's like the sickest hobby on the planet. It's my passion you know so um i feel lucky and and proud um i also definitely like you said that i guess i inspired you with straightage or with throwdown or whatever like that type of stuff makes me really proud too like at that time i was mentally thinking like i want to connect with people

i really want to connect to other people that think like me or or or in this similar head space or something like that. In the way that like when I read the lyrics for records, like whether it was Earth Crisis or, you know, my threat or whatever, like, I connected like with some musician somewhere, you know, so I was active, like, on the throne of records, I would write explanations to songs and stuff like that too. And I would just like try to, yeah, I wanted to connect with other people. And then have, and then with the ultimate goal of being having a live show and, like,

like having this shared experience, you know? Yeah. So anyways, like that you saying that is just really fucking cool. And whenever I have people like say stuff, it just feels really cool. Yeah, part of that. You should be. He inspired a lot, a lot of bands. Thank you. It's crazy.

I mean, we're included. You know, the first band I ever heard at Showcase was you guys. Sick. You know, it's so sick. It's like, I just, you know, when you're a kid, he's having. vivid memories memories and vivid sounds it's just like we need just some things like I remember just like peeking in showcase I was like and you guys are just wrapping it I was supposed to see pantara that night but in LA but it was sold out it was Pantera

more morbid angel soulfly both sold out and me and my high school friend bro was like fuck I keep hearing about the spot called called the showcase we had his mom drive us down a showcase and we just caught like your last song and we're just looking peeking in like what is that? And your voice literally is just fucking ingrained in my brain that moment and then we were asking people

like who is that? Oh, throw down. And then we went back. And that was life changing. You know, then at, you know, then the time goes on,

you know, me and Mitch start, you know, SS. And we would go to see throw down like together and it's half like these moments together. You know,

and it's just, You know, I feel proud to be a part of the underground culture, underground, hardcore scene and all that kind of stuff. Like, I mean, it's how most things in my life has, like, branched off from there, whether it's, like, meeting my wife or, or anything. Like, yeah, it feels, that's home for me. And I feel so proud to have, like, you know, records that were, like, a part of that, you know, that people collect or something. That's cool. Yeah. It's all I ever wanted to be was like

Part of like a scene where I could play live and stuff like that Yeah you guys made like a community You know you're a big big piece of that It's massive just trying to pay it forward you know there was the ones that came before us And the ones that after you know you just Do your part Nets it's still going yeah You know when you're a kid it's

When you see a band live and it's so close like It's when you see it attainable they're playing five chords I could do that next week Yeah You know it's it's so It's so crucial man That's what Nirvana did to me

You know That's what's like holy shit You don't have to like Know how to solo all crazy You don't have to like be this crazy singer Like yeah dude you could just write Some riffs with your friends And some people might like it

You know Of course Kirkobain was on a different level Than just some simple riffs But like yeah you know what I mean like yeah yeah as a young kid you identify with that yeah do it's and it's still something that like again like you know when I feel lost I go to like like like to you in a weird way and I get like oh shit and it just makes me right the fucking heavy riff you know it's cool

you know just seeing it's it's it's a it's a blessing to get older with heavy music and still get inspired. Yeah, totally. You know, it's like, damn, like this, like this can go away, which I don't know, I've ever experienced that that feeling going away, you're like, oh, wow, this can fucking go away. And the fact that you still have it, and in your part, you have music that

could evoke a sometimes dormant feeling in people. And that's what you done for suicide sounds and myself, you know? That's crazy. It's crazy, man. That's so cool. It's cool. Well, you don't have to say it, but Is there any talks of animatium doing anything more?

Because you guys had those two shows. No, there's no talks right now. I mean, it's really just, you know, this playing recently, this time around at least. The first time, like, we got back together was, like, for, like, a benefit for a friend. So we did that. That's cool. And, yeah, and then this time around, the guy who runs PsychoFest in Vegas, he's like a big fan or something. think so he asked us to play and then he decided to set up the San Diego show to go along with it

okay so it all just kind of worked out that way so if there's something in the future we have no idea what it would be I don't know it's cool that it just worked worked out that way yeah yeah that's awesome yeah it's good well Keith let's uh let's end this on on the high note where can people find you uh just my name Keith Barney uh on Instagram you know um 18 Visions 18V official on Instagram that's pretty much where we do most of our stuff we just put out a new like kind of cover record with a new song on it

I self-recorded and produced the record so that was fun so check it out cool yeah cool well shit that's it Keith again thank you for

for the music thank you for inspiring me thank you for inspiring SS to be a band, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're a big piece to, to the puzzle. So, so it's without, you know, 18 bisions throw down, they'll definitely not, not be us at all. So, so, so you're, you're a, a massive piece. So, so, so, thank you for that, man. I appreciate it. And it's an honor to finally meet you, man. Holy shit. You too. Well, until next time, right, everyone. Thank you. Later.