Garza Podcast - 42: Glen Benton | DEICIDE

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

Glen Benton is the lead vocalist and bassist for the death metal band Deicide. We talk about almost joining Morbid Angel. How getting his tonsils taken out early in his career effected his voice and much more! SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! 00:00 - Intro 00:54 - 30 years of Legion & people not catching on 07:25 - Finding your voice after tonsils taken out 09:00 - Know your worth & not being a slave to the record label 11:00 - Growing up in Tampa, Florida 15:35 - Almost joining Morbid Angel 20:00 - Being one of the top-selling death metal bands 24:00 - Writing process 25:00 - Being competitive & a recluse 28:30 - Being a Dad & relationships 34:00 - Almost leaving Deicide 40:15 - On a new Deicide album 45:45 - New guitar players making you step up 47:10 - On deathcore, classical and new music coming out 51:00 - How he started to play the bass 54:25 - Longevity & revenge 56:10 - The Orpheum

Yeah, man, we're all, we can say, man, it's more of a comedy show behind the scenes than it is. With those vocals, I mean, like a drum part, and then just hooks you in there. Right. Well, those hooks are me, man. That's what inspires me is those hooks, man. I got to hear them hooks, man, to be inspired, right? Inspired lyrics, you know, I have my own agenda, man, ever since I was a little kid. I knew what I wanted to be.

Use EMG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. Head over to emgpickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off and then once you write the heaviest song of all time head over to distro kid dot com slash vip slash garsa and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms and now to the heaviest podcast of all time glenbenton it is an honor for you to be here man cool i am i am pumped well thanks for having me uh i never seen these side so tonight i'm pretty fucking stoked cool and uh and congratulations that this is the 30-year anniversary for your record Legion.

Right. Amazing, dude. Yeah, it's been a long time. So it was kind of unique experience being able to revisit that after 30 years. Yeah. How has that been for you and the guys, especially you and Steve? Well, I mean, there was some of the songs that we used to play back in the early 90s when we wrote that record. And we would play a few of those songs, but we kind of...

like abandoned it because everybody back then we're still stuck on the first record so when legion came out was a lot of the a lot of criticism and we would try to play the songs live it wasn't really that one of those records that i thought where the crowd reaction was where it should have been but so we kind of buried it you know and kind of abandoned and we played a couple songs off of it over the years like try fiction and behead the or uh behead the prophet or not behead the prophet but oh Jesus But anyways So when that record first came out

So people didn't catch on to it really Yeah it was kind of like a delayed reaction And then like four or five years later Everybody was raving about how great that record was And I was like Really? We were at that time We were like

Didn't know what to think if it was That turned out to be the same thing With a lot of records It's like everybody kind of hates it in the beginning And then it grows on them and then so you gotta just have thick skin man that's oh yeah we've dealt with a lot of it that that's that's really bizarre because especially with the genre of music like you guys are one of the top selling definal bands of all time and that record in particular is what I'm talking about so

it's kind of weird hearing that oh wait like the record that's so much listened to and actually purchased that there was like a delayed reaction to it. I think that's with any first, you know, when a band has their first record that, you know, the expectations are really set high, you know, for the second one. And I just think it shot above everybody's head. I think they were expecting something different. But, um, like I say, it grew on people, man, you know, so. It did. Especially with, I mean, I was, I was talking with, uh, with Zach, but to me personally, I think it's also because D.C. was, it was definitely, you were the most extreme out of that pact.

And to me, in an already extreme area and being from being in Tampa, like DSO was really like, really extreme. Well, we were all, for most of it, I was brought to Florida when I was a small child and that. So I, you know, kind of, a lot of the guys in Florida were brought there by their parents, you know, relocated to Florida.

And at that time, man, when I was, you know, getting to be a later teenager and stuff like that and seeing all the bands playing, for me, it was like sabotage, you know, back then, you know, they were a local band playing and, you know, the bars and the club scene there. And we had nasty Savage and those bands like that, you know. And for me, it was, you know, to outdo, you know, my competitors as far as what, you know, bringing on the, trying to be the most extreme you possibly could. but the vocals thing, man, kind of came naturally for me. I really never, I didn't think anything. There was no particular, you know, thing for me to follow back then. So I just pretty much just did what I did. And not everybody was accepting of my vocals back then, you know.

A lot of girlfriends of friends would abandon the, would split out of the room. Oh, my God. I like the music. I hate the vocals. I heard that a lot growing up, you know, the beginning, yeah. Yeah, you didn't really have a roadmap, so you kind of had to do what you wanted to do. I was saying, man, back then, you know, it was like all this stuff was coming out on, a metal blade, and you had a lot of, like, you know, some of the earlier stuff.

You had, for us, it was, you know, we had Venom and we had possessed, and, you know, death came out of that, and, you know, a lot of those bands. Those were what, you know, we were listening to back then, you know, a lot of that stuff. I listened to a lot of obscures. I used to go to a lot of, like, record stores, mom-and-pop shops, and dig through all the independent stuff. all the, and then I used to work for a Camelot music, and I used to get

all the metal that would come in, I just got it. They didn't play, all the in-store stuff, promotional stuff, all just went right to my house. Oh, shit, really? So that's how I learned about a lot of, you know, different bands and stuff back then. What were some bands, you did touch upon death, but what were some bands that you

listened to, oh, shit, like, I kind of want to do this. You know, I want to, you know, scream. I was tripping balls one night, and I listened to seven church, you know, possessed. And I was like, that for me, I was like, you know, like, it all made sense. You know what I mean?

So, and I said I listened to Slayer, and I listened to all the stuff like everybody else did and that. But I grew up listening to classic rock and rock and roll and stuff like that. So when I start getting like hearing that's, you know, the heavier stuff, yeah, the more angrier it was, the more I liked it, you know? Yeah. So that's how I was, man. I mean, when I heard Venom and stuff like that, and I was like, wow, man, this is ugly.

but I can't stop listening to it. Yeah, it was you. It's crazy. How those bands kind of like stick with you, you know? It's nuts. Yeah, you can't shake them, man. You can't, dude. It's so weird.

And then without knowing, you just say, okay, well, I guess I'm going to start my own band. And you do this. You're right. That's the word. You just can't shake them. Yeah, like I say, when the band first got together on that, I mean, it was one of those things were, my vocal style hadn't been established yet. I mean, but you had a couple guys.

that we're doing it, but I never, like I say, I just, I just yelled and screamed. I mean, some of the earlier stuff that every did was I got four-track stuff and that. It was always, you know, that you're just that angry man. I call it the angry man voice. So I have three different, I have a few different ranges in that. I got my highs and I got my mid and I have the angry man voice and then I got my low. So I can jump, I jump back and forth between the different ranges. Wow.

But it all changed for me when I had my tonsils removed. I was 24 years old and I had a really bad like really bad problem with my my consoles were actually just rotting in my throat so I had them removed courtesy of roadrunner they paid for it to have the procedure done and uh thanks Monty two and a half weeks later I went to Europe for a tour I wasn't even healed yet and I just did nothing but destroy my throat and that's why I sound the way I do today that's how I got so low and yeah I could yeah it was there was a lot of uh Sitting in the van going to the next gig, just sitting there in my head, just begging whoever to fuck it.

Upstairs or downstairs, whoever, please, give me a voice tonight to do the show, you know? Really? So it was bad, man. After I came back from that, I recovered in that. But my voice changed after that procedure done. So you were 24 had that done. What record cycle were you on? It was right after Legion.

And we didn't really tour for the first album that because I didn't want to, I felt that the band was worth more than a couple hundred dollars a night, you know. So we kind of just held off and let, you know, the momentum built on its own. So after the second record, then the money offers came, you know, where they needed to be to make it worth everybody's while to do it. That is so opposite of how you're supposed to do it. I'll wait like you, like you put out a sick first record, then you waited until it built. Right. Wow. Yeah, because if you let it, to me it was like I've always managed the band and I've always done, you know, pretty much pushed us where we needed to be in it.

But I didn't feel, the record companies, I mean, even then, I just didn't buy the bullshit, man, you know. And as much as they want to put you out there and push you and, you know, and I want to go into the business end of it. But, you know, basically they own you, they own you, they own your merchandise and they're pretty much, you know, telling you. you got to go do this, you know, and I just told them, no, I'll do the next record. But I'm not going to go out and be a slave to you and sell your t-shirts, no. Man, I wish more artists would do that. Well, I think that's we don't know. Like, kind of takes someone like...

There's a level of desperation to be famous, too, man. You know, it's like, I remember when I was younger, it's like, I always tell myself, man, if you don't get a record out by the time you're 20, you're done. And that's what used to motivate me is, you know, to keep pushing. because I just felt that you've got a better chance of becoming, you know, doing what we do, you got a better chance of success when you're younger than you are when you're older, you know?

I mean, there's not more sadder than a 60-year-old death metal. Well, no, but if you put it out enough records and get there, I get there. Yeah, I never thought a million years I'd be sitting here doing this today. I never thought that I'd see, for many reasons, but I just never thought that this music would be still here.

And it is. It's amazing thing, man, to be able to come out and still do this and that. And to see other bands still doing it and everybody's still pushing in that. Where there's other genres of music that disappeared now, you know, and they can't even get work, you know. Yeah, man. To still be doing this, you know? I mean, it's a great thing, man.

It is. You guys did it. I mean, and I'm curious because, I mean, I'm from here. I'm from the complete opposite of Florida. I know I know you were born in New York and then you moved. to, were you in Tampa or were you in like an outskirts of Tampa? I grew up in Clearwater, Florida. Okay, got it.

Yeah. So my parents moved there. My grandmother owned a house, and she bought in the 50s. Wow. We would all go down there for vacation. My family would vacation at my grandma's house down in Clearwater. We ended up moving down there in the real early 70s and that. So we lived there for quite a while.

And then my grandparents, my mom's parents, got sick of that. So we moved back up to New York for a few years. Well, my mother dealt with her parents and family, all that. Then we moved back down south. I went back up and then came. Oh, wow. I came back home, yeah. I couldn't wait to get the fuck out of that place.

I'm not a fan of it. I mean, I can say it's, I have family there and that, but I really don't. That place doesn't hold much for me, man. If anything, it is another one of those things that, you know, I was one of the people that I turned a negative into a positive, you know, growing up, you know. So any kind of a negative situation. I always pushed on, you know, used it to propel myself to push harder, you know, to get success. Yeah.

So all the naysayers and you need to be a plumber and you can go to school and you need to do this. And it's like I had my own agenda, man, ever since I was a little kid. I knew what I wanted to be. I mean, I have like school. It's like papers from school. Like, what do you want to be? I wrote that shit down, man. What I'm doing now is what I wrote down then.

So I pretty much had a, from an early age, I knew what I wanted to do, man. I mean, the first time I heard, like, Little Richard and Chuck Barry and the Beatles and Stones and all that shit, I was like, man, I just, that's what I want to do, man. See an Elvis dude, a huge Elvis fan, you know. I mean, that's the stuff I grew up on, man. That's, the music business doesn't have, you know, those kind of celebrities anymore, those personalities anymore. It's lacking that, I think, you know, the personalities of the days gone. Yeah, especially in our chosen genre. You have like, this is what you guys have.

It's so rare. Like you have like the personality in your genre. It's super rare because it's you. Well, man, you know what? We need that guy out there biting the heads off of bats. Yeah, dude. We need these guys, man. That's what those are those guys that made me want to do this stuff.

You know, it's that crazy, that off the wall shit, man. That's what made me want to do this. you know how i'm curious how old were you when you wrote that shit down what lyrics wise no like uh like no what this is what i want to do nine 10 years old nine 10 wow yeah i was that kid in the mirror with the tennis ragged rocking out

ah damn i had guitars in the house from an early age my old man had guitars in the house and i'd always sit in there one string one finger band and boom boom boom bang boom boom boom boom boom boom Wow. My ducbag brother would come in. You suck. He's like, I know. Fuck you.

Yeah, pretty much. So there was a lot of humble pie to eat in my family back when I got signed. So there was a lot of people that had to eat their shit sandwiches, man. Yeah, I mean, you lived through it. Like, you heard it all like, oh, you should probably get a job. Or you heard all. Fuck. I've been calling.

Yeah, I heard it all, you know. So. And that, like I say, man, that, you know, It's no stress, you know what I mean? You got everybody, you know, trying to come down on your dreams and your, you know, aspirations and that. And you just got to say, man, just turn it around and use it to your advantage. Like, the more you say that, the more I'm going to do this, you know, and that's the way I was, you know. The more you tell me not to do this, the more I'm going to do it.

Yeah, it's like they're giving you, like, motivation and actually making your picture clear. I think they knew that the more they pissed me off about it, the more I was going to pursue it. So it's very much. It worked, right? I just, yeah. I mean, I learned to trade when I was early, you know, like in my early, like 18, 17, 18, 19, I started doing floor covering with a family member. And I learned how to do that.

So I had something to fall back on. I was making money and had to do what I do. And so it wasn't like I was completed here. And I went back to school and got my GED and everything when I got older. Oh, sick. Yeah. Wow. So what was it?

So now, now we're talking. you wrote that shit down when you're nine and then you now you're doing you know work when you're 1819 what what was it what was like the Tampa Florida death only scene like coming up like nothing like you're just hearing about death and then it was a lot of shows

like off in the middle of nowhere kind of things word of mouth shows and that you had a lot of those like parties and stuff like that where bands would you know show up and play in that and we had a lot of local events in that were like sabotage would play more would play and it was a good time man you know early on and that I got to meet and hang out with a lot

established a lot of great friendships with a lot of those bands and that you know from back then to now you know so even even when it was coming up I mean there had to be like a level of like competition I almost joined morbid I almost joined nasty savage man really those were two things I came very close to doing and but I always felt that that I needed to do my own thing you know I just never fit. I just didn't know if I fit in another person's shoes, you know, so. Yeah. You saw something

completely new, right? And then you put up a... So you put up an ad on a local music paper, correct? And then you got a call from the brothers. Yeah, Brian called me and was feeling me out of that. I was really only looking for a three-piece. I only wanted to do a three-piece band at the beginning, man.

So, and, yeah, the one that impressed me to most with Steve, you know. So when I went over and seen them playing that, it was Steve, that was the one that caught my attention to most. Because I was looking for drummers, man. I was really trying to find, you know. You wanted that fucking drummer.

Right. Yep. So, and I've seen that. Steve was only 16 years old when we first met. Really? Yeah. Damn. We were still in high school.

Wow. Yeah, I was 19. Steve was 16. Steve is a fascinating guy. Steve. He's a character. Steve. Aseem?

That same. Same. Okay, yeah. I was like, I said a last name, but you guys have been in a band or playing music at least for over 35 years.

Since July 21st, 1987. And you guys haven't killed each other yet. No, man. How do you do that, man? I can say it with any kind of relationship, man. You got to be able to, you know, take the good and the bad and ugly and all that.

But our sense of humor is what, you know, we all have a great sense of humor about this, you know. You can't take. this shit serious, man. If you take this serious, you're in the wrong business. So, but like I say, man, we've Steve and I, you know, I mean, just like all friendships, you bump heads every once a while and that. But you know, and with any kind of good relationship and friendship, you always work past that. You know, I mean, we're a team, man. Me and him are a writing team. We wrote just about, you know, all that stuff back in the day. So me and Steve were the force behind

all that. So, wow. It's kind of hard to break something like that up, you know. Totally. But me and Steve write together and that. It's like, almost what we're thinking, you know, We can complete each other's sentences when it comes to that writing process. Now, you guys know each other as such a deep level to imagine. Yeah, well, we know what sucks and what don't suck. And we're able to tell each other that sucks without the other person getting completely offended. It's huge. Artistic criticism, man.

It's hard, man. A lot of people can't handle it, man. A lot of guys, they're in the wrong business, man, because you tell them, hey, you know, that's... It kind of sucks, me. And it's, I quit, you know. Get out of my house. get your gear. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. So it's part of the process, man. You've got to be able to have thick skin in this business because it's going to come at you in 10 different directions as far as what's going to test you. Yeah, I'm going to assume, like, you get tested a lot. You get better. Still. Still probably.

Yeah. I mean, if there's one thing I'm sick of is bullshit. Yeah. Especially older you get, I mean, I'm 36 now. I'm just like hitting 30, I'm like, dude, I'm just, like, Hopkins is sick of this bullshit. I was just talking time. Yeah, man, I tell my younger son, it's like,

because he tells me, oh, man, dad, this, dad, dad. And I'm like, do it, listen. Only believe what you see, not what you hear. And that's the, that's the, this business, man. It's like, you can tell me everything under the sun, man. I'm not going to believe until you're showing to me and put it in my hands. Because there's a lot of bullshit in this business. There is, dude.

Yeah. And record companies, I mean, they're dinosaurs, man, that are, you know, they're on their last leg right now. It's a weird time, man, to be in the business and that, but it's going to be a few of them left standing at when the smoke clears and that, but it's just strange times, man.

Strange, I mean, yeah, we, you came up at a time where records were, like, selling. Are you talking, like, these last one of, like, the top selling bands on the planet playing death metal? We got... I was just telling this story the other day. It's like, me and Steve have gotten the bad end

of every situation when it comes. It's like whenever we think that stuff is like, man, we're right there. It's going to be. This is it, man. We're right on that, you know, the cusp of, you know, greatness. Something comes in and kicks our, you know, feet out from underneath us. And it's been like that through our career and that.

So, yeah, man, it's like every time we expect, yeah, man, this is, this is it. And, you know, COVID comes or, you know, the record company, this or this or something happens. There's somebody dies or whatever to fuck. There's always something that comes in that steals our thunder from. us. Wow. We're at, you know, all these years of putting up with that, you know, we still just keep on swinging, man.

It sounds like you guys have, I mean, is there like, especially with you and Steve, is there like a, are you guys communicating? Are you guys actually talking about shit when shit goes? Oh, yeah, man. We stay in contact all the time, man. Just like everyday conversation. I mean, whenever business is at hand, I always call him, we discuss it. And, you know, I mean, like I say, I'm not always right.

He's not always right. I'm not, you know, so we kind of find middle ground there on that for business. You know, Steve's always been there, you know, me and him has always done the business, you know. And I always, you know, like he's like my check it, you know, run it past Steve person, you know what I'm saying. See what Steve says before I make a decision. So I always say, hey, listen, we got this, this, that, and the other, what do you think? And, you know, he's, you know, Steve's like, let's do it, you know. So there you go.

I'm always the guy that goes, okay, well, this, this, and this man. happen and that may happen and then he starts to think about it and then I'll get a call back 30 minutes later hey so he'll come up with something you know for me to an angle that I may have not have caught you know that's great so we work in conjunction with each other pretty well you guys work with each other well you have the bad conversations that because I mean I'm just now doing that my band I'm talking to morning I'm in a room this just feels like but but once you happen when you talk it out like there's like this all like we we we we we we we we we we we we we you fixed a problem and then you move on as a team.

Yeah, our practices usually start off with me doing the monologue and news events and that. And then we go, you know, we move into, you know, the smoking of weed and rehearsing and that, but yeah,

it usually starts with, you know, current events and stuff like that. What's going on in the world and that? We all have our little laugh there. And, man, we're all,

like you say, man, it's more of a comedy show behind the scenes than it is. Like last night, man, I mean, Steve can, Steve, he's the king of the one-liners. So he can only say, like, one word, and he'll have the whole room pissing her pants laughing. Wow. That's Steve, you know, so.

That makes a lot of sense listening to your music, because the drumming and you are extremely consistent throughout a 32-year career of 12 albums. And I was like, you know, I started looking at all with who's, who's in a band? I see you obviously, okay, like Lee Singer and bassist, and then I see the drummer. I'm like, oh, he's played on every fucking record. And I listen to drumming, like he's, especially for this style of music to keep up like that and still do it at a high level, was, that was one of the more fascinating things when I did research on, on you, the band and your history. I'm like, damn, like, the drumming is fucking up there.

You guys, and the way you still feel and hear a connection with your music throughout all your records. And now that, and you know, I didn't know you yet. So now hearing that from you, it makes a lot of sense now. Yeah. Well, like I say, man, me and him are, you know, tight. When we write, we and him get together and write, the process used to be. It's like, I mean, I just bring it, bring it through whatever I had on the table.

I bring it to practice. And me and him, we just work through it, you know, together. So it's sick to. And make it work, you know. I mean, because it's that, I write stuff that's not always what, you know, what it should be. But, I mean, I've got it in my head. I hear it the way I want to hear it. it and that and Steve can you know he can hear it too you know so there isn't much I

it ain't like I have to go into great detail to tell him what I need you know what I want for the park because he's you know he's he's he's uh you know what's the word uh improvise he's a great improviser man so when it comes of improvising you know he's yeah it's huge yeah that's fucking sick dude god Steve shout out Steve dude fucking sick ass blast dude holy fucking shit man Would you, I mean, we're talking late 80s to the early 90s, and you have death coming up, cannibal, obituary. I have my list here. Morbid Angel.

What, are you a competitive person? Am I competitive? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Also. Oh, I just, like I say, I mean, I think I can always do better. You know, I'm one of those type of people perfectionist, you know what I mean?

So, I'm in a lot of people. the studio and that. I mean, I don't, it's like when a certain individual wants to fix everything with fucking pro tools, I'm that guy who says, you know, I can fix that in like three seconds if you just let me track it again. You know what I mean? It's like, we're going to waste a half an hour in here fucking around with pro tools trying to fix something I can fix in three seconds, you know?

Yeah. Competitive wise, I don't know about competitive wise. Man, there's enough on the table for everybody. You know what I mean? Back then and that. There was bands, I'm like, I'm named names or anything, but there was bands there that were probably a little, took it a little more serious competitively than, you know, they should have and stepped on people's toes. I mean, that was happening, you know, a lot, but I really just

give a shit, man, it's too focused on doing what I'm doing to care what anybody. And when I, listen, I don't really listen, people understand, I don't listen, really listen to this kind of music. I really don't. And the reason why I don't, because I don't want any way influencing what I write. Yeah. So I really just don't, just don't listen to it, you know, so. That would explain a lot if you're not listening to those bands and, you know, and, you're that's why the side party has like that personality

I don't want to sound like anybody else so it's like the best way to do that is not to listen to you know that those kind of music I listen to you know like brush and shit like that man sick dude really so like you were really

focused on what you were doing and like let's say like you know Campbell drops our fucking record and fucking 1990 or you know or like a bitch you're not like really paying attention to that you're just doing what what you're doing nah I mean I knew it because

some of the guys were on the same label on that, but I knew, you know, I mean, I obviously, I'm like everybody else. I'm a troll and I, you know, keep up on the news and stuff like that. But I said, I just really was just, I got my own pile of shit to shovel, man. It makes a lot of sense that that's definitely like a healthy, that's definitely, I think, the more healthy mind I have approaching that. Yeah, I can say, man, I was never one for going out and hanging out in the club scene and, you know, doing that kind of thing. So I just kind of just, I'm more of a real clue, sitting at home doing my own thing.

Yeah. Keeping my thoughts, you know, for where they need to be and my mindset, you know. I mean, yeah, I assume obviously we're probably similar labels and like, like, Roadrunner, et cetera. Like, same scene, I assume like the same clubs. Like, I assume you're at least hanging out with like these, like, the guys from Morbate or cannibal. What were your relationships like back then? I really don't hang out with anybody, man. I really don't.

I don't. I mean, it's... I occasionally may show up at something, you know, but like I said, do I know everybody? Yeah, I know everybody. I think I'm... I think I have a good relationship with, uh, repertoire with everybody. I mean, I don't hate anybody or really give your shit about anybody to... Yeah, you just, you just want to stay home and... Just do my own thing, man. You know what I mean?

I'm just a too-my thing. I'm, you know, I got my things that I do, you know, I... I'm in the guns and knives and cars and motorcycles and all that bullshit and I make jewelry and stuff on the side. And I have my things that keep me busy, man, you know. That's awesome. Now that I'm no longer, you know, dad 24-7, my kids are all grown and moved out into the world and that. So now I'm like rediscovering the GB of early 20s before we had kids in that.

And it's kind of refreshing, man, for me, especially creativity-wise. You know, I'm able to say, I'm not thinking about, you know, those obligations anymore. You know what I mean? It's like I've done my job, you know? Yeah. Now it's back to being me again and focusing solely on me and what I do, you know. That's great. So I assume like the kids are all grown up and now you're just... Yeah, it's like it was kind of strange, man. My younger son just moved out recently, you know, a couple years ago.

He moved out into the world doing his own thing. And it was just kind of weird, man. It was like after being a dad for all these years, you know, I've got a 32-year-old son and I have a... Get him be 21-year-old next month. Wow. So it's, yeah, man, it's interesting, man. But, yeah, they're my friends, man.

My sons are my friends. How was it like for you, like, touring full-time being a dad? Because that's something I'm honestly, I don't have kids yet, but I'm fucking terrified, to be honest. Married a divorce twice. Oh, shit. Yeah. I don't want to blame the music business for it. But I'm saying, you know, I mean, just like any kind of job of, you know, being a pilot or any kind of job where it takes you away from your family for a certain length of time.

And that's trying for any relationship, you know. Yeah. Especially when you're in your 20s and that is really hard, man. So my second marriage only lasted six months. So I was smart on that. Got the fuck out of that as quick as I could. It's just money, man, you know what I mean? You can buy your way out of anything.

Oh, my goodness. Do you think, so closing on the marriage part, because you know me, you know, I'm a dating my chick for about almost three years now. There is that worry. Okay. how do I go on tour full time and really make make this work, you know? Like, do you think it could have been prevented somehow or like maybe there's... For me?

Yeah. Oh, man. I, you know, we all make, you know, mistakes and bad decisions in our lives. And everything that we, you know, all the decisions that we do make in this world and life can't all be winners, you know what I mean? So I just chalk it up to, you know, bad choices, bad. had timing and, you know, things like that. But, you know, it's like when you have a, and I learned, you know, later in life, that when it comes to relationships and that, the relationship, you need to establish

the friendship first, you know. And once you establish that and you have that trust, you know what I mean? I think you can, I go on tour now, man, I have no care in the world. I don't have to worry anymore because the person I'm with, I can trust fully and completely. I have no worries or anything like that. Yeah. You know, she conducts herself like a lady, and I appreciate that.

A lot of trust there. Yeah. It's so nice doing your own thing and with that trust. You're not having that worry all the time in the back of your head, man. It's like, I'm always having to tell my younger son. It's like, dude, stop, man, stop. You don't want to put on the same pair of lead shoes, man. Just kick tires, man.

Gene Simmons, man, kick tires, kick tires, till you're later in life. Then I think about getting married and do it all the day, you know. Have fun, man. Enjoy your younger years, you know. Yeah. I got married young, man. Maybe I missed out. Maybe there was some of that where I felt like I was missing out on things and that.

Maybe there was a little bit of that in there mixed in there with that. But they're all kids, man. I think you should really, I think there should be a law, man. You know, like when it comes to marriage licenses, it should be like a driver's license where you get to renew it every couple years. And you go in and ask you a couple questions. And it's like, are you happy? No.

You want out of this? Absolutely. And then they stop it and show you the door and you're free, you know. But unfortunately, it's like a contract, just like a music, you know, a recording contract. It's all contractual law. Wow. It is, unfortunately. And you know when, okay, this relationship is now over.

Yeah. And we tried. When you get the lawyer's retainer bill. Oh, my goodness, dude. Holy shit, man. Yeah, I was talking about this the other day about that, you know, when you're in a situation like that, the hopelessness that comes with that, you know, it's like being in a situation like that. I don't ever want to be in that place. I've been successfully engaged for 15 years, so I'm not going to disturb that by putting, putting,

paperwork in it yeah so i've been with yeah so we've been together for 15 years never a breakup never a bad word never a nothing man so wow yeah congrats did you do you do you uh yeah i guess in a weird way like a marriage would maybe she's my handler man she knows how to handle me man like a lot of people you know she's what she does for a living and that makes her more apt to that but she knows how to deal with me and that she's read all Sharon osborne's books and that so she's well she's kind of got an idea how to handle people like me. Yeah, I do feel sorry for like the females or women involved because creatives or just a little bit more, I feel like. You know, and you got to be a pretty strong-minded to kind of handle any kind of- You got to be, you know, secure with yourself, you know.

Yeah. You know, it's horrible when you're in a relationship with somebody who's not secure with themselves, you know, because it just makes you miserable. That's true. And that's probably for both sides. I break out the checklist. Oh, she said something fucked up, check. You know what I mean?

Oh, I have a checklist, you know, and I just kind of after, you know, multiple relationships and marriages and stuff like that, you just kind of like,

you set a standard for yourself. You're like, I'm not going to compromise anymore, you know what I mean? It's like, it's what I want, what I need, or nothing at all,

you know. Yeah, true. Shit, dude. Well, I mean, so relating that to, to the band, Like, what was kind of like the last straw for like, for like the brothers? Because you've been in a band for, that was 2004, so 14, you're talking 16 years?

They've been out almost 20 years now. It'll be next year. It'll be 20 years since they've been out of the band. Really? Yeah. It was, listen, man, it was all business, you know. The way they conducted themselves was unprofessional and brought a black guy to, you know, me and Steve, which we didn't deserve it because we were doing all the work.

Yeah. Our record deal, when we signed that deal, wrote when we were kids, you know, so we signed it all collectively, you know, not knowing anything about, you know, writer shares or any of that shit, you know, we didn't know any of that stuff back done. So when we went to ERAke, you know, everybody was, you know, everybody was brought on board, notified that list in the deal's changing. You get paid for what you write. And they got their first checks because they didn't barely write anything for scars. I mean, they were but one or two songs each, I think. and they got their publishing checks and they immediately quit the band.

Wow, just like that. And I was ready to quit. Anyway, I was doing vital and I was, I just had enough of their bullshit. So I was ready to go. So when they quit the band, they did me a favor, you know. Damn, so you almost left.

I was ready to go. Yeah, I had enough of their shit. Yeah. I couldn't handle the unprofessionalism and the, just, yeah, man, just couldn't take it anymore, man. So I was traveling by myself and, yeah. Damn. It's crazy how a member or two would make you want to quit your own band.

Oh, yeah. It's so fucking nuts. And then they wanted to fucking burn it down when they left, too. They wanted to burn the fucking thing to the ground. It's like all my hard, me and Steve's hard work, they wanted to burn it down on the ground. So unfortunate. You know what, man, it's as simple as this. Until it's still to this day, still fucking making idiotic post and shit.

And it's embarrassing, you know? It's like, it really is. It's like, you know, you've been out of the band for 20 years, man. you know what, go do something with yourself, you know what I mean? Leave me to fuck alone. Yeah, it kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier with having thick skin. You know, we all kind of learn it the hard way being in the industry that we're in. I had a great advice from his name is Taylor Young.

He plays guitar and like God's hate. Like he's a sick producer and mixer, like top notch. And he gave me the best advice I got. This was very recent. He's like, it doesn't exist. Yeah. I was like, I don't know why, but that. He's a very simple and he's so precise with his words.

That just hit me hard. How I live, man, I have something very similar to that how I live. And that is I don't waste my thoughts on people and things like that. You know, I just don't waste, they're not worth my thoughts. I don't think about them. I don't give them, you know, I just really don't just waste my energy on people and things like that. It's like, it's a downer for life, you know what I mean? It's like, who wants to?

I don't live in the past, man. and I don't swim up shit river twice, you know, and I don't walk upstairs backwards. That's how it is. So, like I said, man, when it came to them, you can say, it's like, I wish them all the best in that, and I wish they would move on in that. They do still, you know, reach out,

trying to, you know, get back into the band, and that's never going to happen. So the sooner they realize that, the sooner they can probably have, enjoy the rest of their lives, maybe. Yeah, man. It's, I mean, it's, you and Steve, dude, and I know that feeling were, like,

a band member or two of this. fucking ruin it dude you know i got to do is sit in the back seat and fucking look out the window man just enjoy the fucking ride it's all you had to do nothing more like people can't do that and you know what here's the fucked up thing man you know there's two words two words can fix a lot of fucking things and they've never used those two words to me and steve ever and i don't think they ever will and i'm never going to ask them for it got it yeah very very uh very clear um our our late singer mitch um um He was by far the most stubborn person I ever met in my fucking life.

Stubborn as shit. Right. But I know exactly what you're talking about. I love him so much. But we'll have some arguments on the road. But he's so hard-headed and so, but he could go, we could step aside. We don't know where in fucking Europe or France. And I step aside, I'm sorry, man.

I'm sorry, too. So he's always the past like 10 years. He's always been my standard. If he could say sorry, anyone could say sorry. You know what? And that's my younger son. He recently was telling me that he was giving somebody a lecture. And he's like, Dad, you know, it's like the fact that you, whenever you were wrong, you always apologized.

And that's how you teach your children not to be sociopaths. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I can say, these individuals, I feel that there's a lot of that there. You know, it's like because some people just don't know how to apologize for their behavior and their actions. They don't care. Or they just, you know, like I say, man, they maybe they feel. that there's been so much damage done

that something as simple as an apology might fix things. But they're, I mean, they're that fucking stupid, you know? So, like I say, I haven't seen them in almost 20 years or spoke to either one of them. I don't plan on it. Those two words go a long way, man.

Yeah. Well, they can say, man, you know, it's not just me. I mean, there's, you know, things said to Steve, too. I mean, you know, they say, man, there's things that you just can't come back from. You know what I mean? You know that. You know when you're saying it,

and you know when you're doing it, that there's no coming back from it, that you've permanently stepped over that line forever. For sure. I get it, man. One of the hardest thing I've ever done with my band, look in the face and say, I'm sorry for this, sorry for that.

And then you go home and you're brought to your knees, being humble. You feel like shit for a second because you're just like, oh, shit, was wrong. But you feel like you did something for the greater good, though. Yes, yes. Yeah, I mean, that's what it's all about, Man, I mean, you can't go through life, man.

It's just hurting people and stepping on toes and burning bridges and that. I mean, because it's all going to come back to eventually, you know. And you read what you show, man. Totally. I was looking at your most recent three records and you went to Central Media. Whose idea was it to go to Mark Lewis and then after Mark Lewis, Jason? That was me. That was me.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm not a fan. I mean, like I say, I'm not. Did I have anything against Mark or anything like that? He's a great producer in that. I just didn't. You know, like I say, there's a chemistry with people, you know, when you work with that. And I just, me and Jay get along great, you know.

Yeah. And Jay knows how I like to work in the studio and stuff like that. So, like I said, we just get a better, you know, better repertoire there. And nothing gets smart. Like I just like working with Jason better. Yeah, it makes a lot, a lot of sense. He's a character to you. Like you say, man.

Fuck, yeah, it's awesome. It's right. It comes right back to the, the humor and the comedy and the whole, you know, because Jay likes to laugh as much. as we do, you know? Yeah. So I like to be around people that laugh and enjoy life, man, you know. I mean, like I said, if you take this too serious, man, it's not going to be any fun anymore.

No. I like people that, you know, keep me laughing, and I can be myself and say off the wall shit, too. And, you know. Yeah. There's a lot of trust involved when someone's doing your record. Right. You know, of, and there's something about the music that when you trust, everyone in the room, something happens.

It's like that fucking magic sauce. Yeah. You know, it's like, oh, but then... Yeah, you're making magic, man. You know it when you're hitting it. You're in the pocket. You're in the zone, man. You know it.

Yeah, it's great. I mean, I think that was a great choice. And also what I love about the past two records was... Obviously, you guys came from, like, the late 80s or the 90s, but you're still open-minded enough to go, oh, let's try, like, a new more... Let's do us, but use some more, like, some modern tools. Yeah. It worked.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And as far as the way we approach the writing in that, I tell everybody it's like, I mean, we want to focus. I mean, we can't get away from what we are and what we do in that. But it's like, try to give me, I used to say this about the other ones. I'm not Rumpel-Stiltskin. I can't spin that pile of shit in the gold. Okay.

So if you hand me a pile of shit, I can only do what I can with it. You know what I mean? So if you hand me something that's catchy and hooky and, you know, It's got that hook. Yeah, man, I'll give you something great every time. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, the past two records, for sure. Like, my favorite is, in the minds of evil. Like, there's a lot more hooks in that shit.

Yeah, Kevin wrote a lot of those songs on that album. That's sick, dude. And then, again, like, you didn't get a pile of shit, so it's like you did a lot with those. I mean, songs have to be like anthems, you know what I mean? They have to have a personality for them to stand out, you know? Because the analysis is going to be one-dimensional, br-br-br-br-br-br-br-br-br-br. and I'm not a fan of that. I like to have, you know, where I can get creative with it, you know.

Yeah. And do, you know, different kinds of building of the lyrics and, you know, creating, you know, that catch and those hooks. And for the vocals, too, you know, I mean, it goes, you know, the vocal. It's all got a hook, man. It's all got to, you know. Totally do it. It can't just be the music hook and the vocals suck, you know. It's got to have, you know, like a story, like you're creating something, like a, a,

you know, an illusion almost like you're creating this whatever you want to call it. Yeah. It's the weed. I didn't say it. But yeah, I mean, people don't realize when you listen to this kind of music,

like you guys or us, like there's purposeful hooks in there. Right. Like homage for Satan. Stuff like that. I mean, those songs stand out because of the hooks, you know. So even, after 12 records, you still get

like inspired. Oh, yeah, man. The new stuff that were right now is really anthem style stuff and that. It's really good, man. There's a lot of Prague stuff in there, mixed in there. Steve's our Prague guy, man. Steve's the progressive rock guy. Yeah, he likes to write those really like black metal riffs

and the progressive stuff. Sick. Well, he doesn't have to be a plan style for it. Yeah, dude, he's an amazing talent, man. He plays piano. He can play sweeps on guitar. He's a fucking freak. Yeah, dude, he can do it all. Wow. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. So you guys, I mean, obviously, your last record was 2018. So looking at four years, it looked like it might be time for a little something, something. Yeah. Well, we're getting ready to hammer this deal out right now and get this thing out. That's sick, man. The whole Legion thing was kind of thrown at me at the last, you know, because we had the record written last year when this was thrown at me and that.

I can say, I have always been the one like, you know, fuck doing Legion. Fuck doing. You know, it's like, I'm never going to do that. revisit shit like that because I see a lot of bands do it and then we started doing it and it was like actually kind of fun man so I was like yeah it's kind of like wow this is

I thought it was going to be like pulling teeth but it was actually really easy in that once we got Taylor in the band you know playing guitar and that it's like we finally have a guitar player that is yeah that's all the way around you know what I mean perfect for the band so no hang ups

no issues with booze drugs any shit man you know what I mean everybody knows what we've been through with guitar players and that. So now we finally got, like I say, Kevin's solid, man. Kevin is a solid, he's been with us. That's why Kevin will always be with us. Taylor, like I say, came aboard, man, after we had to let Canella go.

And yeah, man, it's just, Taylor's just, like I say, the whole Legion thing came, really came together quick when Taylor joined the band. Wow. Yeah, he's an amazing guitar player. The kid is absolutely amazing. Yeah, it's good to bring in like new energy. It parties to stokes.

Yeah, and you know what? It made all of us step it up up, you know, Because maybe, you know, when you got a slopper in the band, it makes it real easy for you to be a slopper too, you know? Totally. And when you have somebody that's there and they're focused and they're hitting all that shit on the nail, you know, the nails on the heads and that kind of makes you have to do the same thing.

So it all made, it may step all of our games up. Absolutely, man. We've got a new drummer, and he's like way on it. So I'm like, oh, yeah. So now you got, yeah. And he starts telling you, pointing shit out that you're playing it wrong. Yeah, it's good. It's good for us.

I think we all need a push in our lives. Yeah. Yeah, we need some new blood, man. You know what I mean? It's like the whole guitarist thing, man. I'm just so, I'm at a point now where it's like, for the first time in the history of this band, I'm content with the guitar players in the band.

Absolutely 100% content. Congrats, man. It is, man. I have no worries anymore. I can go do my, I don't have to worry about this individual embarrassing us in public or this person embarrassing us on stage or this person embarrassing us in his private life.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's just a total pro situation now. That's the way, you know. That's great, man. Yeah. That's sick. Well, I mean, you've had a full-on career and you're still going.

And time has passed with, when my band came out, I was just curious on your opinion on the, like, what do you think about the death court scene and bands? Some of it, I say, man, I really don't listen too much of it to be able to give you a 100% honest opinion about it. I mean, some of it I like, some of it sounds, you know, the same can be said about me. It sounds all the same and that. I mean, I like stuff that's, like I say, I like music that, you know, you put some effort into it besides just a... Of course. I like a little, you know, change it up, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Because I grew up listening to that older stuff, you know what I mean? And that's how that music was structured back in the day. I mean, the music that we do is the closest thing to classical music, the way it's written and structured. That's true. the other music form. Yeah. So when you think about the way it's structured and, you know, musically, it's, I mean, grunge isn't that and, you know, some of the newer music's in that is, like,

everything is so computer generated now, man. It's like, I just put my studio together in that. So I've been working with pro tools and that for all these years and that. I figured might as well get it, put it in the house so I can play with it there too. So, there you go. Yeah, I've been, you know, messing around with that. right stuff it's i needed i needed an outlet man to be able to write my stuff you know because yeah you know filming it on my phone and then taking it the you know this way man i throw my modern drummer program on

i pick a beat do i put it all in there and i can you know i can notebook what i need a notebook and bring it to practice in a more professional manner oh wow that and if i'm working with jay i can just you know i can record my stuff at the house and just fire it over to him via email damn it's sick yeah so i'm just trying to the times man yeah i uh i think uh we we're doing that very similar thing where like you want to you want to still do your own thing but you want to keep the times but you also want to yeah you want to maintain you but you want to you know it's it's it's a weird it's like you can i'm used to go in a a recording studio and there's so much outboard gear and so much stuff and now it's just been reduced to this little laptop and this little hard drive and that's your studio now and there's people making

records like that. Yeah. And I feared, man, I better get in on a game now before I get too old, man. So I'm going to learn it all on that. So, yeah, I've come a pretty good way. I got a lot of good teachers, man, teaching me along the way. Great. So, but I always tell him, it's like, if this is going to make me crazy, you know,

doing the whole studio thing because some of the studio guys are a little wacky and shit. So I was like, if I start getting a wacky like that, I'm putting the shit to the side, man. You're going to get even more wacky, dude. I'll be careful. Yeah, I nipicked the shit out of everything, man. Dude, so wait, you're going into Pro Tools? That's pretty hard. What?

Learning Pro Tools? Yeah. For me, that was fucking hard, dude. I picked it up pretty quick, man. Really? Oh, shit. Okay. I went through the garage band program in like 30 minutes and figure that thing out and that.

But no, man, everything's all drop and drag now with Pro Tools and that. It's like, you can just grab it off your desktop, dump it in, the file creates itself. Oh, damn. Like I say, I mean, you got an auto-EQ and certain stuff, like the simple basic stuff in that, you know, but, yeah. You know what? We got today that we didn't have when I was a kid. It's called YouTube. So you need to learn how to trim your toenails.

You go to YouTube. Oh, my goodness. You want to learn how to run pro tools? You go to YouTube. I mean, it's all there, man. We wanted to work on a car. When I was a kid, you had to go to the auto parts store and buy a Chilton's book and sit there and throw them through that thing all day long. Now you just go on YouTube, and there's 30 dudes showing you how to fit.

fix your car, you know. Oh my goodness. So it's like we live in a different age now, man, you know, then. Yeah, since, you know, we didn't have YouTube back in a day, you definitely didn't. Like, what, you know, how, how did you start playing the bass? I mean, you're going, like, because you're going from your bass playing to, like, a death metal band. I played guitar first. I played a little guitar first. Okay. Cool. You know, one of my, I was a kid playing in bands and I played guitar first. We had a shortage of bass players. There wasn't really very many bass players around. So I just, one day, just picked it up and started playing bass. Damn.

I just, I kind of like it, you know. Would you, would you consider yourself more of a rhythm player? Yeah, I'm more of a rhythm player in that. Wow. When I'm at home, I write everything, like rhythm-wise on the guitar and that. I wrote that by Dawn on an acoustic. I write a lot of songs on acoustic, man. I don't know, because I'm just sitting there watching the Beverly Hillbillies, just playing, pick it on my guitar and shit, you know.

It comes to you at those strangest times. you know I've been hearing a lot about that like people that will play on an acoustic they'll watch like a movie or something they'll be watching like Breaking Bad is something you're just watching and like you'll have a rifflet's come out Yeah it's crazy

He's always like dude There's one song on the last record He kept swearing to me that it was A puppet master theme song You know from the movie puppet master Yeah I'm like Bro that's

I don't know where you're getting that from But maybe it remotely had a similar sound to that But, like, yeah, Sucoff picked up on that. And it wasn't from the TV because I haven't seen that movie since I was a kid in that. But it was similar to it, maybe a little bit in that. But, yeah, man, he's an encyclopedia, man. You can't get none past the guy. Yeah, dude.

So if you got something that's similar to anything on this planet, he's going to be like, hey, that sounds like this. That's awesome. And it's good to have that set of ears, man, you know. Totally. Yeah, Jason's been in the game for a while. He actually recorded one of my favorites of all time. So that was in like late 90s.

That's Eternal Suffering, drowning and Tragedy. I fucking, that's a big influence on us. Jay's an amazing guitar player too, man. I hear about that. Jay helps us out sometimes,

you know, with the structuring of leads and stuff on the records and that. Really? Yeah, he's a fucking Ripper, huh? He's an amazing guitar player. Yes,

sometimes he'll like, FaceTime are the guitar player Mark and he's out of his mind. He'd be like, dear, listen. Blah, Like, blow your mind, man. Wow.

Yeah, he writes some pretty crazy shit, man. And he just does it like most people, you know, put their shoes on. That's how he just, like, effortless. Damn. Yeah, I like those guitar players that play with their soul and their effort, you know, that effortless playing like, you know, Eddie Van Hale and Clapton and all them, those greats, you know. It's like it doesn't even look like they're even putting anything into it.

It just comes by, you know. Yeah. It's just natural. Yeah. Yeah, you said the key word, which I always saw a lot of people's soul. You got to put the soul into it, man. I can pick a guitar player out.

You know, like I say, I can tell if you're playing, you know, from your soul or if you're playing, you know, from the Melbaid guitar book. Like Doug Aldridge, man,

I love Doug Aldridge's guitar playing, man. Yeah. He's a great guitar player. That DOLM he did with Dio or, you know, you know, A Kill a Dragon, I think it was a great album,

man. Nice. Well, I don't want to keep it for too long. I have one more question for you. All right. what what's like the key to your longevity at their highs and lows and you're still here doing it revenge revenge yeah yeah success is the best revenge true it really is yeah how do you get yeah nothing nothing uh i didn't expect that at all it's the truth though man i mean i do this because

i just love rubbing the salt and the wounds that's what keeps me going. Could be from either what family or bands. Everybody. Every motherfucker I can't stand on this fucking planet, man. That's what keeps me going. There's a lot of them, man. But yeah, it's like

they're all sitting on the edge of their fucking seats waiting for me to go, I quit or I retire. They're waiting for that. And that's what's keeping me going. Because I'm not going to give them that satisfaction. When I go, it'll be on my terms. Wow.

Yeah. Glenn, thank you for that. That was really inspiring. Damn. It is true, huh? It's the best,

man. Like I say, I tell my son all the time, he just broke up with his girlfriend, and he's like all beat up over it and shit. And I said, dude, go out and find another chick with big,

you know, and just, it's just one-upper, man. You know what I mean? Life is all about one-up and, you know, it's all it is. So you want to get her,

you know, get revenge, you go, you know, just one-up it. That is. There is a lot. a truth of that man it's true i get a lot of satisfaction out of knowing that there's i'm still stinging the shit out of people man fuck yeah dude that is what's up dude

well to uh to wrap this up glen uh where can people find you if you even want people to find you uh you find us on the dicide official uh facebook page on the uh ducid official instagram page i'm on there too and um yeah we're out there you're out there and you're uh you're on tour right now, dude. You're at the observatory tomorrow. You're in L.A. Got Sacramento, Portland, Seattle, Chicago.

And your last show is in Tampa, Florida on September 10th. Is this a new venue? Yeah, the Orphium moved out of Ebor City. It's over there. It's over by the new Brassmong over there of Paris Avenue over North Tampa. Have you seen it?

I haven't been there yet, no. But I heard it's really going to be... Really? Yeah, it's going to be the end of... the breast mug from what I was told. Wow. Because that one, that, we were just there,

and I think we put like the last show there. Oh, at the orphanman in Ebor? Yeah. Yeah. That's a weird gig, man. You know, going in the Ebor and that. It's, it used to be a happening place, man. Really?

Yeah, it's kind of like lost its luster, I guess, over the years. It happens, huh? Yeah. Like I say, man, we've been playing shows in Ebor for our whole career and that. So that used to be the place, you know, that's where you went. You know, the Ritz Theater, Mascarade,

and then the orphan, and Crowbar, Cuban Club, all them places, man. We're all the metal spots, man, back in the day. Thanks. That's fucking crazy. Well, it's good. Well, sometimes you just got to change, right? Yeah, man. We all can't, you know,

you got to change your underwear's eventually. My goodness. Well, that's a great closer. Thanks for having me, man. On our honor, man. All right, everyone, until next time. Later. Right on.