Garza Podcast - 44: SIGNS OF THE SWARM

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

Signs of the Swarm is an American deathcore band from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We talk about their new single "Unbridled" Major labels signing A.I. artists, the Metaverse & much more! SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB 00:00 - Intro 00:46 - Traveling to Australia, Asia & being the highest deathcore band on the planet 07:43 - Signing to Century Media 16:49 - Forming the band in Pittsburg 19:37 - Airlines losing gear & not missing a show 24:58 - Maintaining your vocals 28:26 - David joining SOTS & Absolvere artwork 35:18 - The writing process 45:37 - Being Influenced by Deftones, Gojira & Meshuggah 51:00 - Clean singing in deathcore 56:00 - New song “Unbridled” 01:01:45 - Deathcore Snoop Dogg & Deathcore in stadiums 01:07:18 - Dropping the ego & growing the scene 01:11:58 - How Korn blew up nu-metal w Slipknot, Limp Bizkit & Mudvayne 01:15:00 - How DOOM & Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater helped heavy music 01:15:25 - Capital Records signing 1st AI rapper 01:17:23 - Dethklok, Metalocalypse & the Metaverse 01:23:35 - Spiritbox releasing singles SIGNS OF THE SWARM is: David Simonich, Bobby Crow, Jeff Russo & Michael Cassese  

and we're going to be announcing signing the Century Media. Wow. So now we're a label mates officially. Congratulations, dude. Mike Gitter was a big piece of that. Shout out Gitter, man. Shout out to Gitter, man. Australia and went straight to the venue,

straight to sound check. Like, we had no time to do anything. Whenever I need music gear, I always go to sweetwater.com. If it's mics, headphones, or studio, and recording gear, Sweetwater has you covered. Next time you need any music. gear support the podcast by using the link in a description and comment section below. It actually was a radio host when I went to an IEP for a semester.

Really? No bullshit. I did a semester at Indiana University at PA and I was bored as shit. I had no friends. It's actually where I met Jack Murray from 156 silence before he'd ever been in a band. It's really crazy how that worked out. But I wanted something to do that wasn't sitting in a dorm room smoking weed. And I was in the communications program.

and I thought to myself, well, shit, I may as well see if they want someone to do like a, like a, how do I put it? I guess like a little session for like, you know, that would specialize in metal music. And I actually got really lucky with the time slot because it was once a week Tuesdays, midnight to 2 a.m. Yeah. And at that point in time, you don't have to follow the FCC regulations for radio censorship. So I could play uncensored metal. I didn't have to worry about, you know, hitting the sensor button to bleep out any cuss words or, you know, if they were saying

fuck or shit or yada, yada, yada, you know, I didn't have to do about anything like that. So I would just literally pull up a Spotify playlist of songs I wanted to play that week. I would play two, three songs at a time, step outside of the radio station, smoke some weed, go back in, run the PSA, talk about the songs we just played, hit it again, repeat, two hours, go back once a week. It was actually a lot of fun. I ended up leaving IUP after a semester and went back to Ken State. I always remember doing that.

How old were you when you were doing that? I was a sophomore, so I might have been 19, half the time. Wow. Now, imagine doing that, and now you're here. Honestly, yeah. I was more than prepared for this. I'm like, oh, okay. That's why I asked about the headsets, you know,

because I had to do this whenever I was talking on the air. So not like anyone was listening. It was 12 to 2 in the morning in a very local area, but I was still having fun with it. Totally. You were the biggest name in fucking Whatever small-ass town The only name in Indiana County

Metal. Holy shit, dude. Well, guys, it's an honor to have The Full Band of Science of the Swarm. I'm fucking stoked to have you guys. Dude, we're stoked to be here. This is our first interview as a full band together with this lineup.

So this is like really fucking sick for us. Great, man. It's people's like I was just seeing you guys. Like we were just in Portland smoking. Talking you guys should have hang out on the podcast. now and now we're here. We're here, baby.

You can fucking know it. Since that time, which was, I mean, the spring, you guys from there went to, what, Asia? He went to... Yeah, so, like, the day after chaos and carnage ended, we had a day off. We rented a hotel. We got all our affairs on order. We practiced, and we slept. And then our merch guy, Duber, he drove us to LAX, and we flew right out to Australia.

So it was insane. It was a grand total of, like, 50. three and a half days from that tour to beginning a stretch in Australia. That was about 10 days. Then we did three days in New Zealand. And then we did another 10-ish days in Asia, multiple countries. Is that right? Something like that.

That shit was brutal because we went from playing like 25, 30 minutes on Chaos and Carnage. And then we had one day to run like an hour and five minutes set. Yeah. We just crushed it in some tiny little room outside of LA. Dude, I forgot we even. Yeah. We went over the first day. We went over there.

There was the first time we played. played that set and we were like, damn, we got in over our heads a little bit. It was all the flying and everything. And I mean, obviously, you know, getting off and playing for what feels like forever going from 25 minutes on chaos. We literally left from the airport and when we landed in Australia and went straight to the venue, straight to sound check. Like, we had no time to do anything. These guys didn't have any power inverter. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I'm like, what do you mean? Well, no, because the flight had been delayed initially, so we're sprinting through the airports. It was a miracle we got on our connecting flight. We get picked up by our liaison on Gino. We didn't even get to the connecting flow.

We missed it. It was a whole other fucking flight. We booked it because the flight out of LAX got delayed two hours. Yeah, every flight is insane. So we're on the way there. I remember, we're on the way there in the van to the venue. because like sound check is literally in about 45 minutes and Dave asked our liaison

Gino he's like yo you guys have the power inverted situation worked out right and Gino just turns around and hands us the like the wall plug adapters like you'd use for your phone when you're traveling and immediately like I didn't say anything at the moment but I was like oh shit in my head I'm like something's like oh god no so the last one the first time I went to Europe earlier this year we fried some shit and the last time the first time we went to Asia you say we like I like fried some shit. Yeah, so that was coming off the tour we did with Fit for an autopsy

the beginning of this year. And, you know, I was, so I had just been made a full-time member of signs. We didn't announce it until Chaos and Carnage ended, but I was made a full-time member of the band right before my birthday in February. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. I mean, tangent, but that was a dream come true

because I'd been a fan of signs of the swarm since, you know, 2017. This is, wow. Getting to text from Dave. In Ohio, every time we play Ohio. Yeah, yeah, because I legitimately, you know, fucked with the band. And I wasn't trying to, like, punch up. But when I realized you guys were rolling without a bass player,

I did figure I'd shoot my shot. Oh, dude, you shot your shot. I was like, girl. Yeah, I shot, but guess what? You texted me. So. It goes to show you. You got to shoot.

But we had just come off of that tour, and I was really, really concerned about... Is this my... Wait, no. We got a role special one with him. He has to have a spliff. I don't want to get blast and completely ruin the podcast. Actually, maybe, who knows?

Hey, no, dude. Can we do a quick intro? Oh, hey, guys. I'm David Semenich. I do vocals for Signs of the Swarm. My name is Bobby Crow. I do drums for Signs of the Swarm. I'm Jefferso.

I play guitar. My name's Mike Kassess. I'm the bassist for Signs of the Swarm. swarm wow yeah so you and then we got young games over here professional joint ruler for us he's rolling up all the dubies for the evening for us to consume that's that beautiful smell dude so this is the first time we're actually smoking on on this yeah I'm glad that's you guys it's proper man death course highest here baby you know what I mean let's go nice and heaviest

not the heaviest I want I would beg different means that we're just talking about it. Like, damn, you guys are fucking heavy as fuck, dude. I fucking appreciated, dude. Yeah, man. I was, I was a big fan. I was losing you guys to the gym, fucking you pumped. That's the same, man.

When's this gonna be released? I guess I'll go to that right now. So this would be released on Monday the 5th. So two days before the 7th. Okay, cool, yeah. I can be right there. Best day to do it, Monday. Come on.

Yeah, I get that. Fucking, well, the beans will be dropped by then. fucking new song teaser and shit is gonna be out fucking on the 29th. Really? Mm-hmm. You guys got the teasers ready? Yeah, got the teaser ready.

We're gonna be announcing signing to Century Media. Wow. So now we're label mates officially. Congratulations, dude. You guys deserve it, for sure. We're incredibly excited about it, yeah. Century Media's getting all the great bands right now.

Yeah, they're seriously picking up, like, they just picked up distant. All the heavy hitters. Yes. It's crazy to see you guys come back to after all this time to Century. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome.

Yeah, Mike Gator was a big piece of that. Shut out, getter, man. Shout out, he pulled us in, too. He reeled us in, he's like... Dude, I swear his name, he had to buy his Korean barbecue in L.A., but he got us. He got us. He's like, it's like, oh, he's the Gitter guy. Like, go get it, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know, I think it's just... I think it's funny. He's a fucking lifer, man. I see him at... shows all the time. He'll go to chair reaction all the time. See him all a small show. Dude, he's always there. Is he coming to the chain reaction tonight?

No, he's at some festival. Oh, yeah, right now there's a big fest in Vegas. Yeah. A big one. Psycho. Yeah, that's what it is. So how does it feel for you to actually be a official member? I'm having a hard time.

I've always had a hard time putting these things into words just because, you know, when I wake up in a van and I realize I'm in a new city or a venue I've never played and I've gone around the world and I'm only 26. That's nuts, man. It's incredibly fulfilling because right before I joined the band, I graduated college,

I was working jobs, and I just was really depressed. I wasn't, like, fulfilled. I wanted to do something that made me feel like I was, like I was fulfilling a purpose. I'm saying that word a lot, but it's really the only word

that really comes to mind. And I knew when I picked up a bass when I was 14, that it was something, that I wanted to pursue and I would fight like hell to make it a career. And it's really, really funny because I had just been fired from a job when David texted me, like, literally the morning after I woke up to a text from David, just said, what's up? And like, I'd known Dave since before he joined sons of the swarm.

I'd known him since in Providence. And he would come into, if you remember Dave, BR, GR, and Cranberry, you come into the bar, and I would bar back there and I'd shoot the shit with you. I'd be like, oh, dude, I remember it. How you doing? Yada, yada, yada. and knowing Dave, I know that he never starts a conversation with WhatsApp, so I knew something was going on.

And I just texted back because I had gone to bed really early that night. I was bombed. I didn't know what I was going to do. And, you know, I texted back. I was like, hey, man, I'm really sorry. I missed this text. I went to bed early last night. What's up?

Smoke some weed. Smoke some cigarettes. Try to take my mind off it. My phone goes off. And the text just says, oh, dude, it's no problem. But this has to say super low key. I'm hitting you up to see if you're interested in auditioning to play bass for signs of the swarm. And I read it once and it didn't click.

I read it twice. It was like dial up in my head. If you remember the sound, it just wasn't clicking. And then it was like the microwave ding. And I started screaming like full blast, top of my voice. I woke up my roommates and everything. It was so freaking excited. Is Mike dying right now?

Holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew that when they, I knew that, I knew that, they would have hit up other people. I knew I could not have been the only person considered for the role. So when Dave told me that what I had to do was film a play-through of the song malevolent enslavement off of vital deprivation, I was like, okay, bet, send me the tabs. I played that since I had just gotten fired from a job, I had all the time in the world. It was actually incredibly lucky. I played that song for maybe six hours that day. I hit up a

buddy in mine in the area, and I was like, when are you available? I need you to shoot me a video. I need to record this. And he's like, I can get you in day after tomorrow. And I said, cool, see you in two days. So I played that song until my hands were raw. I went and shot the video. I got it over to Bobby and David that night. And, you know, Bobby's like, yo, you killed this.

And I was like, holy shit, I actually have a shot at this. You know? And a couple months go by. I'm not trying to push it. I'm not trying to punish. You know, I was just like, hey, here's some clips. Bobby would send me some more tabs. I would send them clips

to me playing that music. And then sometime around June of 2021, Bobby texts me and he's like, hey, are you going to be available for a tour in September? And that's when I knew that I was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, I'm actually going to get this tryout spot. And I said, yeah, I was like,

I don't care what's going on. I'm going to make it happen. So the three tours I did, the headliner, then the tour with Born of Osiris, and then the tour with Fiffer and Autopsy, Those were really my vetting process, you know, a headline tour, a short of support tour, and then a really long full U.S. And then not long after the fit tour ended, we had a Skype meeting the four of us,

and that's when they offered me the full-time position. Wow. I don't remember what we did, but we fucked with them pretty hard. Well, I passed out during the writing session on. Yeah, it was a writing session, and I had been so tired that day. I was literally laying down. I was listening. I was so content on listening.

I was like, I'm just going to shut my eyes for a bit. A nice thing I know my phone's vibrating. Hey man, we gotta talk. I always wake up to a phone call. I always wake up to my phone buzzing. And my phone's buzzing. And I pick it up and I'm just like, oh shit. I fucked up.

And he's like, yo, you fell asleep. I'm like, no, I didn't. I was like, no, I'm good, bro. I'm right here. I was literally like, Mike, you got the job and he's like, just like straight past out. Yeah, I was snoring. So I rejoined the Skype meeting and I'm super apologetic.

I was like, oh man, I'm so sorry, guys. I'm really, really sorry. And they're like, no, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool. By the way, do you want to be the guy? And I was just like, what do you mean? It was like a beat and I was like, what are you talking about? They're like, do you want the job?

Like, this is us offering you the full-time job. And I'm like, this has to be a joke, right? Like, I want to make totally sure you're not fucking with me. And they're like, no, this is 100% serious. Do you want the job? And I was like, yes. And they're like, okay, you got the job. I remember it was February 20th.

It was just a week before my birthday. So really cool, but I couldn't talk about it because, you know, we had so much going on that we couldn't make the announcement until chaos and carnage had ended. So like, you know, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't tell anybody. I could tell, I mean, I told a couple people. I told my parents. I told my girlfriend. Tell me.

Well, yeah. Yeah, I told you I could trust you guys, obviously being, you know, professionals. But like, I couldn't tell a lot of people, like fans at the merch table. I couldn't really tell, you know, the average. concert goer who would stop me and be like, yo, that was sick, can I grab a picture? Are you in the band? I'd be like, nah, wink, wink. I'm just filling in right now.

Wait, you're winking at people? No, no. You know what I'm talking about? Lemon, yeah. That's fucking tick, but, um, congrats, dude. Thank you. Thank you. It's really been a big dream country for me because, like I said, when I was 14, I picked up bass and I knew this is what I wanted to do with my life. So,

the most satisfying part is the I told you so's. Yeah. Because I'm sure, like, everyone at this room can, you know, not just Dave, Bobby Jeff, but you as well, like when you decided you wanted to pursue this as a career, especially with such an extreme genre of music, a lot of people were like, well, you better have a backup plan, which is basically just a nice way of saying, that's not a real job. Exactly, which is just a nice way of saying, we don't think you're going to succeed. So when I finally got, when I finally got the job, actually, it was very shortly after I got the full-time position where we signed the contractor's Century Media. So that was

actually one of the first things I did upon joining the band was sign a record. label with Century Media Records, which still blows my mind, and then tour the United Kingdom in Ireland, and then playing a whole month sold out with you guys, you know, who have been pillars in Death Corps for close to 20 years, maybe more at this point. Oh, yeah, thank you. It's just a big, it's just a whole bunch of, I fucking told you. It's like, you know what I mean? Revenge is the best.

But, yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm talking a lot. No, no, it's great. I mean, so you guys pretty much gave him like three tours. It's kind of like a tester. You know, how is he when he's high and drunk? You see, that's the one. Yeah. We had to do a lot of, like, background research, too.

And hit up, like, friends of his and be like, hey, how is he? We're very thorough, especially these days. Yeah. You got to be. And, you know, we've known it for a long time, so it worked out. So are you guys still based out of Pittsburgh? Yes, sir. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Bobby lives in West Virginia. Okay. But yeah, Dave, myself, and Jeff, we all live within 30 minutes of each other. It's easy to say Pittsburgh. None of us actually live in the city of Pittsburgh. But I live in Cranberry. It's like 30 minutes out.

Dave lives in. Well, actually, I do kind of... Well, you're in Cannesburg now. Yeah, which is basically in Pittsburgh. I mean, I just docked myself. It's cool. Yeah. We're all pretty close.

Do you straight up Pittsburgh heavy shit, dude? Bobby, are you the founder? No. I guess I was kind of in like the original lineup, but even before we put out our first album ever, the lineup had changed like three times. Okay. So the band formed in 2014, like, well,

band was being formed over years before that. Oh, I see. Got it. People going to school together and stuff. And then when like the name was decided on like the year, in 2014 and started playing shows and stuff. There were a couple line-up changes during the writing process of the first album, and then we released that album over the course between that and the second album,

there were some other lineup changes. But yeah, I've been in the band, aside from one month in 2016, that I took a hiatus, I guess technically that meant I was not in the band. Yeah, I've been in the band since it founded. Wow. So, Paul, I would say, that's quick. I would say longer to eight years? Yeah, it's eight years.

It's eight years this year. Yeah, it was, the first show was... Is this one that has tobacco in it? Where is the tobacco? Oh, where is the tobacco? Mike, you got some tobacco on you, buddy. I mean, yeah, you could break up a cigarette real quick. Yeah, for a lot.

We're just, like, indulging right in front of them. I'm not picky at all, dude. This does not imply sponsorship of Marlboro. Although, hey, just a heads up. I mean... I'm just a fuck-up. I probably smoke cigarettes. I probably smoke 10 cigarettes in my life.

They called me the Dury muncher in Australia. Okay. Yeah, because, like... That's what they call chain smokers. Yeah, yeah, because, like, that's their colloquialism for cigarettes, is Durry. And Dave and I, we were both fiending for nicotine because... Cigarettes were so yeah Dude it was ridiculous like I couldn't believe that like their taxes are like that or over there for shit like that

I was like what the you know what I mean? Yeah, I was like I'm just gonna go buy a vape Yeah dude I mean Derek XRO is very expensive when you go down there like oh my everything's like it's like yeah I'm not gonna buy this like I thought I was gonna buy Yeah And the flights now too is it's fucking crazy dude we're seeing like tribal plants go down there, the flights are ridiculous, dude. Oh my goodness, we're going there in March. Yeah.

That's my favorite place to tour ever. We can go to Australia and you do like the Asian territories and stuff like, something about it, I love those shitty flights. We just ate so many else, bro. We have like PTSD of flights right now. Like we lost our shit. Oh, no. We lost our year for like eight days.

Yeah, bro, like, you guys want to talk about that? I've talked a lot. Someone else kind of just do the rundown of that hell. But, yes, let's talk about that. Well, basically, we took a flight from New Zealand to Singapore. And somewhere in Australia and a layover, our shit didn't make it onto the plane or something. With our, yeah, with our layover because we had like no time. Yeah.

Yeah, so we showed up and we were missing a bunch of shit. It's like $15,000 worth of our gear pretty much. Yeah, right. And we hunted it down for like a boy. week and then we were playing in the Philippines like over a week later and it just happened to be at the Philippines airport argued it showed up, I had an air tag and

one of the things and said it was in the country and we were like, yo fuck we're 20 minutes from the airport right now. We just got in a car and just went straight to the airport. Had to spend like two or three hours going through there arguing with people. They wouldn't let me bring in our tour guide, translator,

promoter, you know, just our friend that was there. They wouldn't let her come with us in to speak to them. It was a nightmare. But we ended up getting it back like a few days before we flew home. We were pretty much like, well, fuck,

hopefully it shows up in the States eventually. We ended up getting it back. We didn't miss a single show though. Shout out to Within Destruction. Yeah. Big, big W one within destruction. We didn't miss a single show. They let us borrow their quad cortex

so Jeff and I could patch our tones in. Dude, Jeff, like, built, like, scenes. I'm fucking, like, 20 minutes. It was scrambling, yeah. It was insane. trying to build all the patches and stuff and like make a like pretty much a bass rig in it for him too so it was holy crap dude we would have been screwed though yeah it worked out we ended up in our shit we played it's the damn show we were ready to go home though yeah we were yeah after all that shit

we were like you know what like and then the show we actually played in the philippines was uh our biggest gig we've ever had and we didn't expect it to we thought it'd be a couple hundred people and like 5,000 people showed up oh my and we didn't have any of our gear at the time or anything we were just like all right let's hope for the best. We left out too because that your same kit. Yeah, they have a nice pro kit. Usually house kits that are there pretty shot and it's actually a really great house

kit. You're fucked. It's actually a really great kit. But yeah, it was a good time. My face. My face. What did I do? You hand me a joint. You were just like, what was I? I don't know, dude. I can't get a moment's piece

I'm sorry. So you guys I'm glad to see you guys Here because apparently you guys blew a tire Oh yeah Last night That sucks, he was the worst It was a short drive we got super lucky

Everything worked out Yeah we're like we're feeling like our van Like skipping and we're like you know we need to pull the fuck over We pulled over and we're like all Shit looks fine And then like start pulling up and they're like Oh no it's the back tire of the van You had like a big bubble in the tire

Dude that was crazy though It was all good We pulled over, we stopped, and we're sitting there just waiting for a while, because actually, upon a burning body came by and helped us out, so shout to them. They helped us out a lot. We might have missed that show. And we were just standing there waiting, and I guess the tire just kept expanding,

and we didn't notice. We were standing right around it, just looking at it. And fucking exploded just while we were sitting there. It was like a gunshot. It got one off. Yeah, it was like in the movies when the grenades go off. We were all just like, yo, what the fuck? Yeah, I was sitting in the van, and I was like, what the fuck just happened?

Yeah, we were like, oh shit, Alex, he thought somebody got shot. It's like, is everybody okay? Is somebody hurt? It's also worth mentioning before we left, you know, and the tire gave us problems, you know, because we were afraid we were going to go through a border checkpoint in El Paso. So we wanted to obviously remove anything illicit from ourselves. Between us upon a brain body and vulva dinnia, we smoked maybe, you know, two ounces of marijuana. So we're all there on the side of the highway.

Except for Jeff. Jeff, Jeff, Jeff don't smoke. I'm the only one that doesn't smoke. So I'm just like, hmm. But between the three of us and our. crew were highest guides and we're just like well fuck what do we do the craziest thing to me though you know what i just realized is that despite all the BS in the last like you know since touring has come back because of COVID um we haven't missed a single show we haven't missed one we haven't dropped I have missed one show and that was because I had COVID so I didn't perform I I set that one out

I was talking to our merch guy dober I don't think since you've been in the band in 2018 yeah we've never missed the show since I've never missed the show since I've never Yeah, science has not dropped a show since 2018. We played one show without bass and one show instrumental. Other than that, though, like, we haven't dropped anything. Yeah, it's fucking crazy, honestly. So, good job. I'm still bummed I didn't play that last show on that Decapitated Doors.

My voice was so fucked, though. I've never felt like that before my life. You get that bunk long. Yeah, what was wrong? Dude, fucking, I just got bunkling. like I just got sick and like I thought I was like staying away from everybody because it wasn't COVID because we were testing ourselves daily. Yeah.

Because we were fucking scared. We weren't going to be able to go home. You know what I mean? Like you know how it is whenever you go over there. You plan for an X amount of time. Yeah. And then fucking whenever it's over, then you go home. You know what I mean?

You don't plan to be there for an extra two weeks to quarantine. You know what I mean? So if that happens, you need to be able to like change your plans. You know what I mean? fucking so we're testing every day and stuff so it wasn't bad fucking but it was it was bad fucking like my talking voice was fine and then like anytime I go to like talk to a certain level it was just like it was just like I was like nope I was like I am not getting me dude fuck that you don't know that you don't know that too that too that too but it's kind of

the thing about being a singer that we don't understand like man like you can't if something's wrong you can't really play it through that right that's what i'm saying dude you can't borrow somebody's vocal chords for a night you're yeah yeah i mean happen to eddie on on his last run yeah sometimes you can't like you can't force it out because then you're ruined like the rest of the whole it's better to just sit down for the day recover and then just That day was legendary though. Yeah, it was, it was fine. It reminded me personally a lot of the show that was thrown for Mitch's memory.

You know, with a lot of guest vocalists and I was kind of like, because I remember when that happened, I was in high school and I was really bummed out hearing that news. And I remember seeing all the footage of all the different vocalists who came out to, you know, honor Mitch's legacy. And I thought to myself, that must have been the craziest motherfucking show. And in a sense speaking, we, you know, had a bunch of vocalists come together to help again, and it was just really, really cool to see everyone doing their part. Yeah.

Crushing these songs, especially now, like, we were talking about in Kast and Carnage, there's a whole other wave of death core bands coming in. Yeah, it's nuts, man. Yeah, it's like it really has a resurgence and all the dudes that are on that tour, all people we've known forever, and grow up listening to you guys,

getting to see our friends do the shit. Right. It's like... It's such a full circle moment for so many people. Wow. I remember I was I was watching a sorry to put you on a spot I was watching you do a cover I don't answer yeah it was sick dude it's good it's good video man thanks you were so stuck to be able to play that one dude literally I like I was like yo can I do it and you guys were like

yeah I was like I was like are you fucking kidding me of course you remember the sound check Mark looks at me and he goes, you know what I answered? I was like, yeah. You're like, no? For like two months up to the tour he's like, wouldn't it be so crazy if I could like play that song with them or something sometime?

We're like, yeah, dude, shit happens. You never really, like crazy shit happens all the time when we're on tour, you know? The cool shit and we're like, you don't know. It does, man. How did you join the band? They actually contacted me. I was at work. and I got the phone call from the air old manager Jake Short and he was like, hey, the vocalist quit the band. You want to fill in for these couple tours.

And I was like, I'm not doing it unless I get the opportunity to be the full-time guy. Because, like, I had to quit my job. I was, like, a welding foreman and stuff. I had some stuff pretty sealed out for me. like I was making some good money and shit. And then I had three days to make the decision after they told me that they would like let me be the guy if I killed the tours.

You know what I mean? They're like if you kill the tours and you do a video and people accept you. Wow. And like it seems good. Then like we got this. You know what I mean? And then so I had what it was like 11 days

after I made the decision to learn. the tour started 11 days after the day we called you because we we found out about this less than two weeks before the tour was supposed to start that we didn't have a vocalist anymore so oh really yeah so we started scrambling looking we're like this was our first time doing a not a full US tour but like a we were doing 80 days with a couple like a week off or two here and there in between with that's a lot dude yeah it's what ingested and the whole thing was with ingested over like two different tours and uh we were like man we have to make this happen.

That's the shit that we'd been fighting for. And Jesta was one of those bands that we were like, we want to tour with them really bad. And he came through with 11 fucking days. We were practicing in my basement at the time. It was insane. You just like, to see from that to this is some shit, for sure. There's still a lot of room to.

Four years now. Yeah, the band has existed now longer with Dave in it than before. He wasn't. It was crazy. Yeah, it seems like each member that you got really, you kept finding like your sound he just kept finding it yeah and and your recent record

that's like there's something about that one even like even the artwork was like the books in like the face and the face is looking up and there's like it's tobacco oh this one's a tobacco one are you sure dude yeah here we go baby now we're going downhill now

but yeah like the whole like album art thing was actually like kind of put together from a bunch of like concepts from all the songs matched together yeah and um kind of just like gave the idea to the guy and it was like hey we went something like this and we got like the rough version of it and it looked like a zombie with like a book in its face you know what i mean it looked you kind of does huh yeah it looked way different beforehand um but now I'm honestly stoked on it

we just wanted something different because like with being on like a brutal death metal label like it's almost entirely brutal death metal a lot of the album art is like rather similar it's just that kind of the painting or like some kind of figure to focus on

and we were just like there were a lot of release cool good releases from our friends coming out on the label at the same time too so we were like there's they would always have a you know like a full photo list of all the album covers like the cover photo and stuff yeah like the months and stuff and we were just like man how can we make ours look different and we're like let's just do something completely different than anybody else is going to do so that way it doesn't just look

like another yeah so it is very different for us but we were like fuck it it's just something a little more eye-catching than it is no it's great you guys naturally did that you guys the hands are afraid to do you guys can do something that sticks out yeah it might and it might feel a little bit different, but sometimes it sticks. And this record cover for you guys, I think sticks. See, like, my favorite part about the record is the back of it. And not a lot of people, like,

really, like, showcase the back of it too much, but how the art artist, like, literally, like, shows the figure, like, sideways with our logo embedded into the hand. It's, like, the hardest shit ever. Oh, my goodness.

Okay. What is the name of the record? I see it and I want to say Upsil beer. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, great. Cool. Named it.

Who came up with that title? Actually, Bobby did. Bobby. Well, he hit me with something similar and, well, it was like an idea. And we started thinking about names and a lot of it was, I was finding other, because especially metal like, so much shit has been done. So I'm like trying to make sure that the name isn't too similar to something, but we wanted to kind of have this vibe.

and we just started looking up synonyms and different languages and stuff and just found it and I thought it was cool and it was like as soon as we saw it like we were just like yo this is it we like we like the idea of like absolute like this just kind of like this uh absolution yeah this is like defining what a move and sound for us like because vital deprivation was kind of a move but we didn't quite we liked it we didn't feel like it didn't hit as heavy as we wanted to as the other albums yeah so this had a lot more of that it mixed in with kind of like the faster death metal stuff mile too. But we didn't want it to be too close to a Kubla Khan record or I'm sure there's plenty of other ones that have the same. So we just tried to find something a little different, but ended up on that and we were like, this is cool, this is it. Yeah, I was actually, oh, excuse me, I was actually really privileged to be able to listen to the album before I was made a full-time member because my first tour was the headlining tour in support of the record actually before it released. I remember, you know, I had already been

confirmed to do the tour, so Bobby's like, yeah, fuck it, may as well let you listen. to the record. Because we're going to be playing some songs. We played the bulk of Absalvere on the headlining tour. I think it was maybe like what, seven songs off of the record. Yeah, it must.

It's the one with the tobacco in it? Yeah. Yeah. I am. A good few other sides. Dave likes it straight. Yeah, I'll take it straight. You guys found a title that sticks out.

I was like, what is that word? And plus on top of that, it's high in the alphabetical order as well. You know what I'm saying? Because if it goes by album title, it's higher up in the listings. The catalog, yeah. That's some smart

shit. Okay, so basically we're going to rip it off. Okay, guys, our next paragraph, we have to start with the A. A, A, A, it's quite A. Honestly, numbers is the way to go. Just always numbers. One and A. Negative one.

One A. My old iPod had negative one by Mudvane. I had like 60,000 songs, but every time I turn my fucking iPod on it, it's negative one, because that's the first fucking song. Dude, that record is ridiculous. Oh, it's absolutely insane. I've, like, rediscovered it again as I've, maybe going 10 years without listening to it.

And I'm like, fuck, man, they really had something. Especially when you, when you, every re-hear, ODI 50, you're like, what the fuck of the guys doing? I'm sorry, I can't get into it, brother. Especially your base player. I might take a minute. What was that? That's the tobacco one? Yeah, I'm good.

Okay. Sorry, guys. I don't want to get two blasts with. So basically you guys put in tobacco in this joint. I got, I got plenty of more, man. You got five there, what the fuck you're doing? My man's working overtime, right? Yeah, we've got, what was that?

Two more on deck, we've got a third coming. You guys are out of control. He's a madman. He's still all this. Do you pass? I do. So what, oh, thank you. What's the writing process like for, especially for this past record?

Because I see you guys keep rolling, enjoying some just wondering. This is something I love to talk about because we don't get to talk about it. Go in, dude. No, we do a lot of, most of our writing. Well, when we brought Jeff from the band, it was during the pandemic. And, like, I had COVID at one point. I don't know if anybody else ever did, but we were all trying not to get together too much because of that. Yeah.

So we started doing Skype and just we would have my setup kind of be the home base, screen share. We'd all could see each other's faces of cameras. and just set a microphone right in front of me that they could hear me through and they could hear the music through. And we just vibe shit out. And then he could send me idea. He would track stuff. He runs the same shit as me pretty much.

And we just send it back and forth through the chat on Skype, drag it into the session. Fuck with it. And we would just do that for... Build songs front to back. We did that whole album in almost like three months. Like there were some ideas coming into it, but pretty much from the time we were like, all right, we need to like... We need to actually write a record. Yeah.

That's like literally, we were like, we were like thinking like, oh, yeah, like, we don't know, like, what's going to happen. We didn't want to, like, put it out too soon with, like, the pandemic and everything because we wouldn't be able to twere with it. You know what I mean? There's, like, so many factors that play there. Yeah. It was like nerve-wracking to, like, think about writing a record, you know what I mean? And then whenever it was like, okay, we really need to do this. And then that's whenever we, like, cracked down and actually started writing.

Yeah, it was wintertime. And because of the pandemic, we were, like, we were all working shit jobs for the most part. I was delivering pizza, and I would come home. I was making, like, here, more. I was working pizza, like, from noon to midnight pretty much every day. And then I would come home and hop on the computer until, like, five, six in the morning. And then if they were free, every weekend, we would all get together. And then we'd meet up a little, like, every now and then we'd meet up together.

But for the most part, it was all on Skype. And then we went straight to the street. Well, we got together for a week at Dave's house, and we tracked all the cars. Yeah, everything. consistent. Everything. We tracked all the except for drums

and Proustin. Yeah, and also Shane Meyer. Yeah, and Shane Mayer. Yeah, he did drums and vocals for us. So we do

pretty much all the string recording ourselves just because the control you have over that is insane. And then drums kind of have to go somewhere good

and I can't do that from my house. We were like, we'll go somewhere for that and vocals. Yeah, you definitely need the drums are the one thing.

You need a drum room. Yeah, exactly. That's like the only thing. Do you guys were riding via Skype? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Still are.

Yeah. Wow. It works. It's surprisingly organic, too, because, like, being able to jam out ideas and say, how do you feel about this? You know, we can, like, collectively. Yeah. With each other, like, literally.

You can do yourself. So it's not like when you're the same room with somebody just making noise and everyone's like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, hey, Dave. Right. Right in front of me. Yeah.

You know, when you're sitting in the same room and, like, your drummer's making noise. And then you're trying to play a riff or somebody else trying to play riff and it's just like a mess of noise. Right, sounds like a guitar center. Yeah, exactly. You can just mute yourself and fucking, you know. And then be like, hey, how do you like this? Do you think this will work here?

And like, we can kind of. And everyone's in the comfort. And you literally said what I was just about to say. Yeah. Yeah. Because that contributes so much to the creative headspace. Yeah, being in your, so everyone's in our space. Right.

Which is nice. It's, it's, I, I do kind of miss the organicness of being in a room like when I was younger and just like playing drums and somebody playing guitar. but for like the kind of music that we're making and like the depth we want to put into it it's uh it's very easy it makes it so much easier because we get to actually focus really on all the intricate things that we put in there

like all like yeah like literally like steel hitting on each other adding fucking reverb and tipping out all the fucking yeah it's not just like oh here's a guitar riff here's a drum idea it's like what are we going to do with this section of the song to make it get the vibe that we want Our song Totem, we've recorded that album in my basement, actually. But yeah, the song Totum is, there's sledgehammer noises, and it's just me hitting shit off the pipes in my basement. Nice.

So we do all kinds of shit like that in my house. It was fun. It was different. Compared to the album we did before that, we went to a studio for 10 days, we spent a fuck ton of money. It was cool. It was a very good experience. Yeah, it was a great experience.

But after that, we were like, fuck, we don't need to do that. you know what I mean yeah we get a better product just like putting a little bit more effort in our end really

so like the record before was at a studio and this one wasn't exactly but all enough it was about a 50-50 this just more recent one sounds better

in my opinion it's weird cool the drums and the bass tones oh thank you thank you yeah

we definitely enjoy that album a lot like when we were done with it we were like fuck we're actually proud of this really proud of this. I actually got to track some guitar

on the record, dude. One note. The last fucking note on the record. We gave him one note, give it open. And he crushed it. First take. He was like, can you need me to do it again?

I'm like, no, I'll just stretch it out. Congratulations. And, Jeff, you came in in in 2021, right? Officially? Really? It was 2020, but officially 2021. Yeah, officially 2021. one, but they brought me in to kind of help with the writing process. Does anybody need anything?

I'm okay. I'm fine, actually, yeah. Good. But originally I got the offer to jump in as a touring guitar player, because their guitar player at the time didn't really win the tour anymore. Yeah. So that's how I initially kind of got my foot in the door. Me and Dave also used to be in a band together, so we had already worked together for years

prior to that. Because the band, he was in before he joined Sons. that was me and his band in Providence. But yeah, I came in and started learning a lot of the material and stuff that I needed to know for like their tour plans. But then like the pandemic happened, obviously that kind of like threw everything kind of up in the air. And I didn't really know what was going on for a while. And then they were kind of like, hey, like we need somebody to, you know, kind of jump in on writing duties now too. So would you be interested in joining as a full-time member?

I was like, absolutely, let's go. and that's kind of where I got my foot in the door. We started writing to see how it went, and it kind of clicked pretty well. So here we are. Sound like it clicked. Yeah. Jeff, you debuted with the collection, right?

Yeah, that's the... Oh, okay. That was the first song I had the opportunity to write on. That was, like... I think that was kind of like my real tryout for the band was... This one just... How I could contribute to that.

So I had a few sections of that song that I wrote, and there was other sections. Like, hey, what if we did this? What if we did that? like, threw a guitar solo in there too, so it was, I don't know. It was crazy that was the first time that we, well, we had all these ideas for guest features for that song. And it just happened to be like two of our favorite bands, and I know, especially Joe, so he's like, oh, this is my first song. Yeah.

And we had a Matt from Kubla Khan on that song. And Nick from Maltau. Yeah. Very great. And also that was a very big, like, genre boundary for us to get, like, metal core and, like, OG that's core. into our music it was like yeah

that was a big opportunity so I was stoked that we were able to get Nick to kind of come out the darkness yeah you know I mean like we were just kind of like spitballing too like oh like what if we just got these people

to do it and then we hit him up and like yeah let's go and so it's like damn okay I guess I gotta write this part around his vocals now because like we actually were like overreaching we felt like we're like all these two's not gonna know never know yeah exactly sound the part and they're like

Mike knows that. Yeah, exactly. I guess I'll ask a dumb question. Can I join the band? That's not exactly how it happened. I just said, hey, if you guys ever decide that you want somebody, you know, think about me. At the time, that's cool.

At the time, they actually said, no, it was six months between when I shot my shot and they texted me. We missed it on a bass player on stage. I really like this. We've been a four-piece now for a while, like, single guitar bass, bass. This is the way. I like it a lot.

It just works. Yeah, a four piece is definitely like your guys' thing. It's Jeff, it sounds like you've been in a band a long time. It's crazy how you go into like this album. It sounds like you guys have been very cohesive for a long time, but... Dude, that's that great. Yeah, I think what... I think a lot of it, too, is like me and Dave having been being in a band together

before, like, we kind of... We jell already, you know what I mean? And me and Bobby, I think we, you know, we talk about music a lot, so I feel like we have a lot of the same influences. So we're like always on the same page. Like, oh, let's do this or that. And we're always both like really into the idea. So I think it just makes it super easy for us to write together. Yeah.

Most of the time when one of us says something, somebody else has already worked on it. Right, exactly. Like, we're like way ahead of you. Like, what if we did this? He's like, yep, already ahead of you. And he hits play and it's like, oh, that's perfect. Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, it was a good thing going. That's sick. For all you guys, like, what were? Because influences for me were different. I'm curious what were your influences to write an album like this. So many. Yeah, I mean, so many. Honestly, but like you know some bands dude well it's weird because like okay I guess we have a lot of the same favorite bands like we all like really fucking love like death tones and like

Good year like pretty much yeah mr. like all these major like a sick ass jersey Oh yeah it's like legacy bands but I think um I don't know we just kept saying they literally just kept saying like how can we make this sound huge yeah we wanted like a massive sound yeah that was we didn't really care of it like we if it was so much heavy or so much this or that we're just like if that's something that's something that's sounds like ridiculous like you hear and you're like yeah that's insane that's pretty much all we were going for and then everything else just kind of happens naturally and once you add vocals to it especially with a recognizable voice like daves yes he does it brings it always kind of brings that sound together so yeah I mean yeah yeah see their answer is actually a little different than mine any of the bands I had been in before joining signs uh the reason I would end up leaving them is because there wasn't really a lot of activity going on.

So I never really got the chance to participate in a lot of writing. So they already have a flow, which I'm trying to emulate, and I'm trying to approach things like seeing as how future signs of this warm releases will feature me on base. I have this opportunity

now to really leave my own mark. And I kind of want to approach it in a way that's similar to my favorites, but also my own you know I'd like to in the future establish an identity as

you know my own bass player so yeah I think that's everybody it's just like the goal as a musician how to make how to define your voice in a in a like any setting you know

someone tell me if I'm rambling because like this sweet ass hands dude you were at I don't know if you know this but you're actually at the perfect platform to do it on talk as long as you want to there's no time there's no

There's no censorship. I don't care you guys. I don't care you guys. I don't care. If it happens to get demonetized, that's fine too. You talked about every band that comes in here leaving their mark, like, on the room. I think ours is just going to be resing. Or the future bands will come here.

Why this is like, yeah, let's play. You guys are probably leaving more of a cent. A good vibe and a scent. Especially that. That shit is green. What the fuck, dude? Yeah. I think the...

Where did that? Some of it from Arizona and some of it from here. Yeah. So you hide it delivered? Yeah, I did. It's so crazy, man. I was shooting a playthru with Fortin. Yeah.

On the road. They took forever. What I got it, though. Yeah. The delivery. It's California, dude. Yeah. I'm trying to think back to the album, though, like, when we were writing.

we were listening to a lot of, oh, I was delivering pizza, so I was listening to music in my car, just like, I haven't listened to music like that in a long time because it was just doing other jobs or whatever. And so that just got me really inspired again. You're in the headspace.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the first time in a minute. And we wanted to do a lot of effects, like spend a lot of time working in the box of just trying to, like, make things sound instead of just like a leaky guitar tone, how to make it sound like our band guitar. A lot of stuff too, like taking a guitar and making it sound like not a guitar.

Yeah, yeah, we did so much of that. Like, some of the songs have 60 layers of noises. That are just like not really an instrument anymore. This start as an instrument. It's like noise. It's like straight into the sunset.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds awesome. You guys are definitely finding something. I was curious what you guys are listening to because, I mean, it's fucking ridiculous, heavy. I mean, this is heavy. This is heavy. Recently, like, I've been listening to, like, no face, no case. That shit is, like, absurd, dude.

They, like, they, like, straight ass beaters. It's obnoxiously heavy. Yeah. No face, no case? No face, no case. Yeah. That's hard. Dude, literally, like, they got, like, the air horns and shit in there.

And, like, the shit's hard. Yeah, it's so hard. Also, we've been touring with a lot of stuff. lot of great bands. Oh, yeah. I guess this was kind of before that, or after that time, but we've been touring

with a lot of great bands that have been very inspiring the last year. We've been on the road almost nonstop. And basically every band we've been with is amazing. And there's always something.

Like whether you, I guess, realize it or not, you're taking that in. Right. I mean, all the time. Yeah. And seeing how the crowd reacts

to how it makes you feel. Yeah. We do a lot of that of just like, it's more about like the vibe. Right. Yeah. No, I remember near the end of the fit tour,

Because that was like, what, five weeks? You know, in the last week and a half, we were on our own just going and jamming far from heaven because of that intro. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Because that really stuck with us.

And that is actually a ripper of a song to see you live. And also why I was curious, because you had this one song that has, like, clean singing. Oh, yeah. This is fucking sick, dude. It's hot. We didn't really do it on purpose. Yeah.

It was just like, hey, what if we tried this here? Yeah. It kind of came organic. I will say that at the time I was, and I still am obsessed with North Lane's record, Alien. It's a sick record. It's a fantastic record. But I was jamming that pretty hard. So I don't know.

Maybe that might have had some type of influence on pushing towards the clean vocals. But it just kind of came whenever we were like sitting down and talking about what the lyrics were going to be. route and like then like the part felt like it needed it you know what I mean it just felt really like powerful and moving and we're like well how can we make it even more powerful right and you originally it was mostly the screaming vocal in the front and the thing was just supposed to be color and once we had the singing we know switching it yeah it came through like we heard it was just a phone video that you sent of him in the suite with our friend and and uh it

Like it was, the vocals were really loud because it was the, you know, they just tracked it. And we're like, man, that sounds so good. And then we ended up just peppering his vocals in behind it instead. And we're like, dude, it sounds sick like this. So we would listen to without it and it's like, it's not the same. It doesn't hit the same. So if it's better for the song, that's what we want to do. Serve the song.

For sure. You got to serve the song. Yeah. It's literally everything. Well, that's cool. I mean, it's great how it just kind of came out. Yeah, we never pushed that song on anything. And like really, except for we did a remix for it.

But even before that, it was one of our more stream songs. Like, most one of our most streamed. We were surprised because we thought everybody was going to hate it. You know what I mean? We're like this brutal death core. The classic. Slammy band. And then we'd come out with some stuff with Cleansley.

We're like, everybody's going to hate this. Like, yeah, some people don't like it. But it got a way better response than we expected. Yeah, personally, like, I was, I love those tracks. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're very, like, dreaming desecration is a very, like, home hitting song for me, empirically.

so like I like that shit you know what I mean I feel like that if you're not writing stuff that you don't like you know what I mean then that's the point

exactly yeah totally we're like super critical of our shit because of that we're like I don't like that one note so let's do something else that one note sucks dude

yeah that's the that's the curse man sometimes you know sometimes you can change you know it might actually make it make it better. It's crazy. I mean, I think obviously you're gonna put out something, someone won't like it, but yeah, I mean, that part is pretty undeniable. It's like you have the heavy,

then you have like this interesting top string chord progression. I was like, that's a really cool riff. And then, but then you have like the singing on top of that, it's just perfect. It's just, if you would do something else, it might even take it away from the song in like a weird way. It's cool. You guys just threw on the singing was so sick, man. Yeah, we kind of left like the the guitar out of that I mean there's tons of effect guitar layers like high note just like single notes and like

background noise and stuff but there's no real the first half of it there's no like rhythm guitar it's just bass vocals drums and oh yeah yeah yeah the vocals kind of fill the guitar space yeah and then when it comes back in when it hits with it just makes that like impact it gives

it like a weight almost it's heavy without being chuggy breakdown heavy it's like emotionally heavy, I guess. That's why I like that song so much. That part. Sounds like you guys.

Yeah. And that's a hard fucking thing I'm doing to do, man. It takes a long time to find your copying your heroes for a long time and eventually hopefully you find your own thing. No, that is very true. I mean, even not like, you know, we've toured these awesome bands.

We go see a show. And if there's a show in Pittsburgh and we're not on tour, we all try to go just because it's like, we all went to Salt Whitechapel. Cannibal corpse Shadow Revocation And then we just saw somebody

It was Oceanano Oceanano Yeah, I see Oceanano And those bands still inspire us now And they've been inspires for 20 years You're okay You're sleeping on the job

I don't have someone dying on here dude We don't offer paid medical leave, bro I thought that was gonna be a me It was all right Hell yeah. Well, cool, hopefully you guys... They just dying.

Oh, my goodness. I hope you guys do more singing in the future. But that record came out, it just came out. It's like, tell us in 2021, you guys are already... Are you allowed to say? Are you already working on a new record? What's the... Yeah, we're starting our new record,

working on our first one. The first single that we're releasing is going to be just like, the first taste of what we want to bring out for the new chapter signs. Yeah. We'll be playing it tonight. Yeah, we'll be playing it tonight. Yeah, we'll be playing it to check it out.

Yeah, we've been playing the new single on Bridal on this tour. And it's a lot of fun to play live. It's actually, you know what, if you want to, we were talking about the whole, you know, Skype writing thing. That's like a really good culmination of the fruits of that labor. Yeah, for sure. We did that whole track. Same approach that we did on the record. Yeah.

And it happened. We started the song on a Sunday. It was mostly done on Wednesday, and by the next Sunday, we had it, like, pretty much finished. Yeah, pretty close to that. Yeah, it's adding flavor and after that point, but the meat and potatoes were all there. Yeah, it's a really interesting way to do. So just a few days? Yeah, yeah.

Essentially, right? Yeah, because we did that one in between the Fifth Grand Autopsy Tour and the Capita. Yeah, we were home for, like, what, three weeks? Yeah. We wrote it in that time. Yeah, it's the level of detail that you can do in that in that time that would take, you know, especially with us, They live kind of close to each other. I'm a little bit farther away.

But I'm not having to take so much time to get together. You know, you can just do it three, four times a week, compared to it once, you know. Wow. Get together. It's awesome. So I'm assuming that the song and your team announcement is going to be on the same day, the same.

Well, the teaser's going to be coming out for it and like the pre-save. That'll technically be the announcement, right? Yeah. going to be the announcement that'll be on the 29th August. Congratulations, dude, that's fucking sick. Thank you. Thank you.

Honestly, still mind-blown, to be completely honest. It's weird, huh? Yeah, it really is. It really is. It definitely feels like a big step right now. This whole last year has felt like a big step for us. We kind of came into

coming out of the pandemic, like man, we got to find our footing again. And, like, thankfully, the fans and the shows have been fucking nuts since the pandemic because everyone missed it. Yeah. Yeah. We've had fans that have come to five, six, seven shows on a single tour. Yeah. Like, following us on the run and coming every night.

His two dudes came to the last, like, eight shows of our tour Chaos and Carnies. Really? Yeah. Holy shit. And there's been a lot more of that for sure, I feel like not. Yeah. It's a crazy feeling when everything. it starts to line up and just lock in.

You know, so yeah, I mean, we've been working so hard, we've been doing this, doing that, sacrifice this. And then when things finally start to click and it keep clicking, it's like, damn. You don't realize it's happening. No, you don't actually. You can have that just like moment where like, oh, like we did that and like here we are. Like it's all, you know, it's all kind of culminating now.

Especially because when you're here on the road, it's like, it's a very, some people think it's like vacation. It's a very exhausting job, you know. It's very exhausting. We're just every day. grind. Yeah, exactly. You get caught up in it so just like any of the job, but then it's like you get an offer for something

or you write a song you really like and it's like, oh fuck, this is the cool shit. You know, this is... It's worth it. It's so crazy. Yeah, I mean, the word of exhausting definitely comes up. Like, I feel exhausted all the time.

Yeah. But it's not like a bad thing. It says it's like, oh, you're not really sleeping well, you're not, and you're getting older and you're trying to fucking headbang as hard as possible. You're trying to just make your body do things that's not supposed to be doing. Well, in this type of music,

more than I think any other, it's like you have to put in that level of... You have to. Because there's so many people doing it. There's so many people doing it that are incredible that never see the light of day, you know, for whatever reason or another.

So you really have to go all in on it. You have to. Yeah. Most of the time I've seen, just in my experience, I've seen hard work pretty much always win over talent. Yeah.

You guys are still around. I know. Fucking on top of the game. I mean, we suck. You know? See? No. It's hard.

It's hard to work. It's crazy, man. We were listening to, since the, all morning today. Just like, got to get in the mood. And we're like,

dude, this shit is still so fucking hard. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, Clunting? Well,

everything. We listened to, oh, yeah. Fucking, like, four, three albums and,

like, I was, like, like, like, like, smoke. Oh, cool.

I have, like, my own personal little favorite playlist that kind of just falls down the nostalgia hole, you know what I mean? Because like, I fuck with you guys hard. You guys are sick. And now I'm listening to you guys and wearing

your band t-shirts. It's weird, huh? Every time I see a tag on Instagram, I'm like, what a guy. It's made my day. Thank you. I've been talking about you guys a lot lately. I did a three podcast this this month because we have a new song dropping like a dukes from now that's been going on like and I mean the scene our genre of death court keeps coming up and like and either if I could ask about my career or I get asked about new bands coming out or any bands coming out like you guys

always I always see your name you guys got signs this swarm age will maker luna shore like all these bands that you guys are coming up you guys are always brought up yeah I think that's largely in part, not just to the fact that all the bands you mentioned are great, you know, but I mean, if we look back at Chaos and Carnage, you know, nearly every show of that tour sold out except for

so what, and that was because that was the whole stadium. You know what I mean? Which is crazy. Like, Death Corps bands playing in a stadium. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Like, the quality is just skyrocketed. It hasn't. You know what I mean? And you can

see that in the concert attendance. And you can see that in the crowd responses. You know what I mean? Like, Distant, the first band playing on the bill, Chaos and Carnage, was getting crazy good crowd response. And like, you normally don't see as many people when the first band starts. But, like, these shows were packing out. And people were talking about distant.

Like, people were asking me about them. So from the first band to the headliner, you know what I mean? It's just such a consistently, I guess, growing style of the genre. It's so where you said the word is still growing right now. It's definitely a big step forward. Like it's a, it's more like a seems like we're sprinting right now. Like it was stagnant for years, stagnant for years and bands like us and putting out, you know, shitty records. And we're just like, it was very like, you know, stagnant for years, dude.

Then like, I don't know where they sprint. like, you know, before I know, I'm on tour with signs of the storm, and there's this whole in distant, and all these kids are coming out and buying shirts. I'm like, this is fucking, it was a big sprint now. And now it's just growing. And it's just like, to be, I try my best to kind of sit back and watch it happen. I'm like, this is, this is nuts, dude. This is fucking crazy.

Yeah, the kids are all right. Yeah. And you guys are in an interesting position because now, as you said, which I also agree, the bar is very high, a lot of great bands are out right now. Like, what, like, do you guys feel competitive? Or do you, uh, is there like a, it's hard not to feel competitive, but we definitely do to an extent. Yeah, but it doesn't mean in any respect that like, it makes us so happy to see our peers doing well.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Elevates the genre as a whole. I'd say 99% of the people that we've met on the road in the last year and really in the last four years are all wonderful people. just trying to do the same shit that we're trying to do. Competition isn't even the word. They inspire us. Yeah, honestly, it's not competition.

A lot of times when you see anytime, like we're really lucky to be coming up with a lot of sick bands right now. And every time something good happens for one of those people, it's always like, well, shit, that means it could happen for us. Right. Absolutely. Like, truly.

More inspiring than competitive, I would say, for sure. We're definitely competitive on stage, though. Yeah. In the nice way. Like, I remember I saw this fucking Lamb of God DVD. like 2004. I don't know if it was Kildelphia or Sacramento one, but they were like, we're going on on a tour with Slayer and we love Slayer, but our

goal every day is to make Slayer look like ass. I have thought that my whole life is just like, fucking you know, put it out there. I think everybody's pretty much on the same page with that. So we're on stage, but otherwise no, not

gnarly. David? I don't think I am competitive at all. Like, I'm just like yeah like I'm just like yo I just want to fucking make sure I'm like doing cool shit

you're always trying to you're always the man on top of trying to do cool shit I was always just trying to do cool shit I got high times in my opinion he's Snoop dog you're trying to have the same level of I think you're here already

I was just gonna say what the fuck it's been like 10 minutes Snoop if you ever see this come on let's up can you pass me that please yeah yeah Thank you.

You know what, actually, hey, can I hit this? I could do some nicotine, actually. I don't know I'm saying. I was just curious because, I mean, there is healthy competition, which it took me a career to learn because there's actually a healthy way to do it and not be such a like, fuck those guys. Yeah, see, like, I never...

I've been there. Like, I've never been like, oh, I've never been like, oh, fuck those guys because they got something, like, cooler than me or something. You know what I mean? Like truly it just makes me just like, oh shit, then I, that can happen to me too. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. It's more so like, oh, the bar has gotten set here now. Like, you know what I mean? We got to make sure we hit that mark. You know what I mean? But it's not necessarily like, oh, we want to be better than them. It's just like, oh, we got to have better standards. You know what I mean?

Yeah. If we want to put out something. See, like, truly, like, all I want to do is just make sure that I'm putting out cooler shit than I did before. Right. You know what I mean? And, like, just like, make sure that, like, we're just. just staying on the progression of just like continuing to keep hitting new like levels of sound that we haven't unlocked yet you know what I mean like because I feel like that like absalvere is like the second record that I've had with the band and I feel like I have so much more that I can like offer you know what I mean and like it's just like we just got to keep writing more and keep writing more you know what I mean and like I'm looking forward. to that future and stuff but kind of just rambling on at this point no it's not it's

not enough trust me but to treat treat the conversation like you do joints just kind of roll there it's basically it's keep going it's just keep rolling it's never just keep rolling is never enough dude you know Chris actually if I could ask you a question it just came in mind I'm curious since you know obviously you've had a really long career with suicide silence and you guys have done a lot and you're consistently brought up like if there's a big four of death core like you guys are consistently brought

up in that conversation is there anything you haven't done that you want to do still? Are there any bands that you want to tour with that you haven't toured with yet? There's definitely which is a really trippy thing because I mean we I had the gate we had a lot of aspirations like when I was a kid that have actually happened

it's really cool and I hope it gives you know an inside of hope to you know you guys are band sugar in us i mean when you're so many years in there's still shit to do even even if you've done so much or like you toured fucking so many times and there's still a lot of shit to do and there's definitely uh especially after the past year and a half a lot of things have been popping up with us and like just he's got my wow there's still shit to do there's still you're still you're still shit to uh bills and i honestly like um i owe it to bands like you guys you guys want to shore again the whole list distance i mean all these bands

i've seen like oh man like this is because you guys i i feel like a broken record lately always talking about this but i just want to see which is what i wanted back then it's finally happened now and i don't want the bands in our era to fuck it up because they they all did they all fuck it up is you guys have a camaraderie with the bands around you and And you guys, when we're around you guys or anyone, like, there's no, like, ego. We're not, we're not trying to feud with the scene. Well, because fucking dudes like you guys, this is going to sound like I'm kissing ass so hard. But dudes, like you guys paved the way for that shit.

Like, seriously. Because we all grew up wanting to do this and wanting to make music like your band and why you have all these bands we grew up with? And so now we're doing that, and we're doing it with you, which is fucking insane. You are. It's not a song. Like I said, 99% of the people, meet on the road are just so grateful to be doing it the same way that we are.

So that has a big part as to why everybody gets along and like... Yeah, everyone gets along. And not saying we didn't get along back in a day, but like this, you know, every band in our era just fucking ruined like the genre. So basically it just ties in. I mean, bands, band members, managers getting into people's ears that fuels egos. But what I want to see and the goal of SS is we're on like, I feel weird talking about myself, but I mean, SS has been through a low behind the scenes, super fucking low.

We're talking about money disappearing, the whole industry saying like you're done, and now you guys seen where we're out now. We're starting to grow. We kind of came out of that low, and now we're... On tour them of God. We're about to be us again. And with so many bands that counted us out, we're so fucking lucky to be a part of this with you guys. and this second wave.

And, you know, we're in, now we're doing house of blueses and fucking 2,000 cap rooms. And so basically my goal then is finally happening out. And me personally, I'm not going to fuck it up. My band is, we drop the egos, we're fucking ready. I want to build our whole genre as big as you possibly be. Whoever it is that breaks through to whatever, I don't give a fuck. If it's you guys, if it's us, we're alone or short,

I don't care, or multiple bands, I want to see this whole. genre get as big as possible and fuck everybody else yeah I mean if you think about it death not just death core but like metal as in general largely in part due to death core is as big as it was in the 80s right now at the peak of rash it's not quite there but like if you think about it right around the 90s it's kind of the same thing you were talking about right around the 90s a lot of metal bands from that era started to stumble like yeah Iron Maiden released two really shitty records like I love those guys they're the iron maid is the reason I play bass but I got to call that shot those

two records with Blaze Bailey suck. It happens. And a lot of other bands started changing their sounds dramatically, and it kind of just spiraled into something different by the early 2000s. And I think recently since like 2018 forward, you know, it's really rapidly started to approach that zenith again. I really think we can surpass it if we stay on the track we're on. Yes, if no one fucks up.

Because people always fuck up. That's the problem. I'm saying. People always fuck it up. I mean, yeah, I'll probably fuck up at some point. But yeah, it's like, I want to us not make the same mistake. And it's, you know, all grow to good. Because no one band's gonna do it.

You need multiple. I mean, look at New Metal, Corn. Corn wasn't corn without Limp biscuit, without Slip, not without muddabing. There wasn't just them, and they fucking blew up to No, number one at Billboard. They had this whole wave of top-tier bands. I mean, you can say what you want about New Metal, but that was like, that's my favorite music. That's still a lot that we listen to. In the van.

Like, those are all the bands that were... Totally. Yeah. And I want to do this same... I want to see, like, that's the goal of... One of the top goals of myself personally, when I'm alone, and thinking about what we're doing, what our next move is and goals. We're lucky to be back, I guess, I don't know what we're saying it,

but we're going back on to the top. You know, I mean, we're getting out of that low in our career, and then I want to take us... Use the name to bring up as many bands as we can and help out whoever we can. And if hopefully one of them, or a few, take off from there. And then they could do it when their band gets bigger to becoming bands. It's like, I want to grow everything, dude. Dude, fucking, I'm the same way.

Like, I got doing, like, I got this gig doing, like, voicings for a video game. It's called Cristola. I'm scared of that. Anyways, you were talking about Cristola. Yeah. But I ended up getting a gig doing voicings for the final boss in the video game. Oh, wow. And I was like, I don't want to do this by myself.

I feel like that this could be a cool thing for like my era of music. You know what I mean? Right. So like I hit up like people like like I hit up Will fucking I was bullshitting with him. And I was like, yo, you want to do this? And Will jumped in on it. I was on tour with Joe and I was talking to him about a Joe for fit for an autopsy. And he was like, yo, I'd love to fucking get on that.

And then I also got my vocal coach, Dave, from the Extreme Vocal Institute. Oh, wow. As well. Yeah. And pretty much, like, just got, like, a band of people together to, like, do all these voicings for this video game. It's kind of like dark souls, but with cats. Yeah, it's fucking sick, dude. Like, I'm fucking stoked on it.

Shout out Astrol, Clockwork, Studios. Yeah, that's cool. We feel like we've talked about that, like, just shooting the shit, whether we're hanging out or recording or whatever, like, how cool would be to have more, you know, music from our genre and, like, kind of, like, our era of bands, like, in video games because we're all gamers and stuff like that, and you see games, like, Doom come out with, like, this real heavy, you know, soundtrack.

Dude, I submitted to do that shit. I didn't get it. I was so salty. Did you really? Yeah, I did. I wanted it so... Death metal choir. Dude, like, take for the Death Metal Choir.

Yeah, honestly, Doom did such a big thing for metal as a whole. That's what I mean, though. Like, just that headspace of, like, oh, like, that could be another way to propel this genre forward, like, getting, you know, people in heavier music, death core, extreme metal, whatever, like, involved with video games. Like, that's, like, a different kind of platform than just playing shows for, like, the genre of music. Yeah, fuck. Most of us found our favorite, like, like, all of our first favorite.

bands from video games. Tony Hawk, Pro Skedder, baby. Well, Tony Hawk, I mean, fucking old need for speed games. See, what we need to do is we need to make the first AI generated

death core band. Oh my goodness. Just like how Capital Records just signed their first AI generated rapper. Rapper. Dude, do you see that shit?

Yeah. Yeah, dude. They've automated the industry. Yeah, dude. That's... Honestly, dude, it's kind of crazy how, like, it's insane.

It's insane. Are you serious? Yeah. It's just going to be laptops. Now it really is. What's the artist? What's the thing?

Basically, it's an avatar, right? Yeah. The avatar is the character that is the rapper. But it is a couple of guys in the background that are good at programming, good at using AI, and they are making this product. It's literally the guerrillas. Yeah, it's like the rapper. Yeah, guerrillas 22

Yeah Yeah No shit No slander to the guerrillas though Yeah I mean Gorillas is sick Yeah

It feels like man like Let's say AI takes over Right Let's just say that takes over right You see what happens to me Maybe smoke weed I started talking

Yeah We go Oh no Okay so if AI takes over And we're fuck because first it's going to be the major labels, then it's going to be a rock band, then it's going to be a metal band,

then it's going to be a death court. And then it'll be like a thing where like people will pay just to see real bands because that'll be a thing. It'll be like NFTs. You know, it'll just like fold in on itself after the novelty expires. This AI shit's garbage.

I need to see it real band. NFBs, maybe non-funish. Bingeable bands. You buy the exclusive rights to a fucking virtual band. You know what I mean? It's already started. Brendan Small with Death Clock. Like, oh my God. I'm so stuck. They actually cried that fast. They were in Philadelphia. I'm so mad we missed that. I was so pissed. I was so mad we missed. I saw them in 2000. Dude, they liked their comment whenever I comment. That's good. I saw it. I was like this fucking rocks and they liked it.

Wait, you mean like from the band account or? count or yes oh my god stop there I'll manifest that's 20 20 11th at death clock oh my god dude I would oh man that'd be crazy that be so fucking I'm sick as fuck dead clock dude signs it signs a day clock fuck yeah let's go but like you know what did you ever watch that show though metal like I never watched it oh my god okay so it's really funny this yo what what are you serious I was not watch metal o'clock No, I wasn't a band. Anyone who works at adult swim sees this, bring that show back.

Fuck y'all for canceling it. But, like, there's one episode where they actually have a band open for them. And the crowd is so, you know, manic about Death Clock, you know, because they're, like, the biggest force. It's, like, it's, like, obscenely, impossibly big. Like, the sixth largest economy in the world in the cartoon, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, and their fans are so rabid that when a band opens for them, they just storm the stage and beat them to death. Like, that actually happens in this.

show. That's how the episode ends. You know, so like, I mean, the big goal for talking about that, though, man, you know, just put us in the show. You know what I mean? Just put us in the show. I don't even care. I don't get to

speaking roll. Just put us, like, in a little background cameo roll, like, loading gear or some shit. I can't believe, man. I can't believe you've never seen that show. That's incredible. Yeah, it's such like a metalhead staple. I know. Gave it, gave it a shot and it just didn't hit it right. It didn't hit me.

Sorry, guys. I was in high school when it came out, so I was super impressionable. Yeah. There's people getting fucking murdered to death metal for 15 minutes. I thought it was insane. I was also like still just getting into it, so I'm like, oh, there's a funny-ass cartoon. Well, and the riffs, when it came out, the riffs were like... Burn the earth, dude.

Burned. It's such a banger. Fresh rift? Let's do it. Yeah, he was... Jeff, give me a riff. Well, we're fucking sick. sorry that I didn't see that show.

Yeah, not everybody's cup of tea. So, well, I mean, so when are we going to do a tour with AI bands? Dude, fucking... Five years from now? If we could just upload ourselves and I'll stay home. Work from home touring? You're really thinking in the future, bro. If we wouldn't I go out of the pandemic, that's where it would be...

His eyes are like, what? You guys are fucked. I'm fucked. She's bad news, boys. Bad news boys. We're going down. Go ahead. I'll share a fucking deep secret about me is I'm already thinking about taking a podcast to the Metaverse and having a binding property in the Metaverse and have a podcast studio and have bands take their Minervoirs bands.

Let's go. See, you're already. I'm already in. See, you already know what's going on. That's a deep secret. have. Yeah, dude. You got to get the new sky.

Don, dun, turn. Like, I can't just have a physical, I need to fucking Metaverse Studio too. I mean,

but the thing is, is that like, right now with that being like a new emerging technology, I don't know what to call it really, but like,

I mean, getting ahead of the artwork. It's really smart. Crazy, though. Do you see any of those? No. Dude,

this shit's fucking crazy. This just looks like Fortnite characters. It does just like Fortnite characters, but give it a minute. This is how Black Mirror started. You know what I mean?

That's a great show. That show fucks me up. Speaking of good shows, yeah. Black Mirror is a show. I love how they have a different actor for every single episode. It's all self-contained. Yeah, I love that.

But it's so weird because it keeps you connect you to the whole series. Because you don't really connect with the... That's the same reason I like love Death of Robots because it's like... See, that's pretty cool, right? Dude, the one episode. I can just go forever. I watched the episode about the dude. That's not on the spaceship, but he loved that he was like being like held asleep by like the insect queen or whatever.

Oh, that was crazy. That's dark. That shit fucked you up. That was... Honestly, hold up. Hang on, I'm just the merch designed. The robot thing let me see. It's like, it's cool.

Pretty cool. It's pretty cool, man. I'm like, well, I guess the last question with AI is who's going to get the chip? Yeah. Well, it depends on... I'm thinking about it. What are the perks? Pros and cons.

I don't even know what we're talking about. You know how they were talking about putting a chip inside your fucking body? Oh, you mean like the cell phones and Futurama that, like, behind your eye and shit so you're gonna fucking connect here's my huh that's you all day that's you finally wake up oh damn sure it's a matrix shit yeah all right so guys seriously thank you guys for being here and coming out and stokes for having this thanks for having us hotbox absolute honor any time man thank you guys for the weed and the

tobacco i know you guys don't like tobacco joints i know that so but had to keep this thing somewhat on the tracks oh we i think we stayed on the tracks pretty good don't you think this is nice to catch up man we appreciate it yeah it's cool so you guys got a new song coming out on the seventh

yeah september 7th on bright old will be released wow and that would that be on on central media yes that would be our first like release first single release with century media that's sick that you're putting out the first song you're gonna put out on the label is going to be a single. It's kind of cool. We did that with our last album and it's just like I think it's a

nice way of establishing a change and like making a statement kind of it's a little different than like the regular three songs here's our album rollout you know. I think it's a and also those songs are sing yeah our singles tend to do really well too outside of album releases so it's actually a really smart format because if you look at rappers do that spirit box did it and they had rapid growth because of it. Like the releasing single format keeps the listeners interested. You know what I mean? Because it's like it's one song, you'll get the hype and then you release another single

like two months later instead of 12 songs. That's not what's happening. So don't think that that's what's going to happen. Well, I'm just, no, I'm saying it for people listening. Yeah, it's not a guaranteed formula. You actually have to make good music. But, you know, I remember thinking when Spirit Box is doing that role, I'm like, where's the album?

Where's the album? And then I'm realizing that that's the most. that's the marketing keeping me interested. Interesting. You know what I mean? Because they'd release a single and I'm like, oh, that's fucking cool or they'd release a remix like they did with

Holy Roller, you know? Yeah, it's great. And you listen to it and it gets you excited because it's more and then you want a larger package of it. And then they finally release the album and now look what they're doing. It's a really smart way of looking at it. Yeah, I like singles.

Yeah, we have that coming out on the 7th, it'll be a video as well as a song. Yeah, you're single itself, yeah. we put a lot of fucking bro i got a tap i'm sorry put a lot of work into the video yeah we uh shot it um we shot the performance stuff before we went on

chaos and cottage really yeah yeah actually a few days before we left i think yeah just a few days yeah so that'll be out and then we'll be working on new tunes for a minute holy shit yeah you guys doing the single thing is fucking dope you also do singles on albums too which i'm just i'm just

just now learning which is we're literally about to do it. Like you could, uh, you're a lot of certain, you're a lot of certain amount of singles per record. Yeah. It's always half the record. So let's say, or there's 10 songs, five singles or six songs, five singles. Or if it's six, uh, 12, six. So it's always half, half the record. And you, and you can push them as, uh, singles.

And that's like the geek stuff that I've been being in contact with labels. We've learned a lot in a half because we started mostly self, managing until recently and oh wow so much shit that like just that was kind of unintentionally kept from us and we're learning about now it's like yeah like made up it's been really good cycle as whenever me and bobby like took over like everything and like kind of pushed through and got everything on track well it's going great we're working with good fight now yeah we have good fight uh curl um from good fight sick uh shot out Carl's a man.

Yeah, he's a great guy. He helps us out a lot. He's the first person that made us think, like, yeah, we could probably use a manager again. Yeah. Yeah, he kind of need that, like, outside perspective. That's it. When we started getting super grateful to get all these tour offers and shit, we're like, man, we've got a lot going on now.

Yeah, it just can't keep up with everything just us. It's tough, man. Yeah, like, it just keeps adding up and adding up and adding up. And then it's like, oh, well, there's only a couple of us, you know what I mean? And then like, then like, you know how it goes? Like, it's hard to have multiple people handle one subject because then it's like, oh, you have to like midway through like three people to get the answer of the one thing. You know what I mean?

And it's just, oh, yeah, man. I'm in an business side the past year and getting integrated in that, it is a lot. and it's very easy to lose little things so I'm still you guys get a manager get the outside perspective hoping not fuck up too much we're doing all right yeah yeah

just trucking along well shit you guys are at you guys are playing show tonight I will be there let's go chain reaction our first time in four years really yeah shit man 2018 or 19

yeah 18 maybe five years sold out tonight yeah that's fucking dope. I'm stoked for you to see the whole light show and shit that we got going on. The light show with a new single, you're going to love it. I'm stoked. I'll hop a few beers there.

Oh, two. Zero. I probably shouldn't set it on camera. Cool. Well, uh, congrats on signing with the label. We're now label mates. It's fucking badass. That was probably really good. Holy shit. Don't fucking close out of the burp, dude. You said, don't you dare close out of the burp.

Oh, cool. Where, so where can people find you guys? You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, any streaming, anything. They're on pretty much everything. You want to follow us on socials? All of our Instagram handles are in the band description on the band page. If you want to find anything about us, go to Instagram.

We have a link. Everything you need to know. Hell yeah. Love you guys. I love your music. and I want to be a surprise seeing a future tour happen very soon. So love that. Love you guys.

That's all fucking race and genre as a team, man. You bet. Cool. Thanks for having us. All right, guys. Ladies, appreciate it. Until next time, later.