Garza Podcast - 57: EXHUMED

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

Exhumed is an American death metal band from San Jose, California. We talk about how Gore Metal came about, fighting each other, longevity in death metal & much more! SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! Exhumed is: Matt Harvey, Ross Sewage, Mike Hamilton & Sebastian Philips TIME CODES: 00:00 - Intro 00:55 - Do death metal drummers have the hardest job? 09:36 - Longevity & the Cannibal Corpse blueprint 14:56 - Meeting other band members & hearing Carcass 19:04 - The early years 21:24 - How to find new bands in the 90s 26:16 - Promoting your band at shows 33:10 - Dark days in death metal 38:17 - Gore Metal 50:25 - Stepping away from Exhumed 57:37 - Deeds of Flesh & playing for the song 01:04:47 - Being friends & fighting each other 01:11:05 - To the Dead 01:15:22 - Garza getting puked on

And so then we started meeting kids from, like, Sacramento, or kids from Fairfield or kids from even a Tascadero the town I live in. These kids used to drive out for every show. And then, you know, you start talking and, you know, you just expand it from there. It was like, you know, it's just the internet before the internet, really. But it was a lot of pen pal, too. There's a lot of riding people. There was like, and if you had a band. Ross was really good at right.

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I am honored to have the whole band exhumed here. Thank you for being here. I know your schedule is pretty chaotic right now. You're out for five weeks. Yeah, we're wrapping up five weeks. but this actually worth that perfect man this is actually kind of a nice way to chill for you know a little bit

yeah thanks for having us here thank you for having us oh thank it's good to be here thank you guys I know like your tour is five weeks and I know after like start losing my mind after three and a half weeks you know you're like uh my life was gone before I even left oh my goodness

well there's a fine one like the first week you're super excited second week you're getting in your flow third week you're like okay starting to fill little the effects week four you're like okay I'm just tired week four you're yelling at each and there's lots of ponds and tons. Yeah, that's the therapy week where, you know, you have the... It's good, and then you build stronger bonds for the future,

so you can have more explosive arguments. I think the thing that was kind of smart about the way that the tour was routed is that the end is the warm part. So at the beginning, it was... It was okay for the first few days, and it got super cold, then everybody got sick. Everybody was miserable for like two weeks and cranky, and then all of a sudden,

the temperature rose above 40 degrees. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, people started laughing. Nature, having a nice time. Well, we started in Portland, and it was a little chilly, and we just did the whole top part of the country. It wasn't actually warm until the first, like, surprisingly, Cleveland was the warmest day.

It was like, 54 degrees. We were like, oh, shut up putting the shorts on now. It came true, dog. Wow. Oh, my goodness. Can we do a quick intro? Sure. Yeah.

Oh. Ross. Oh. I need you to say. I'm Ross sewage. I play The Bass. Pass it up.

From Exhum. There's another thing that you do, too. Oh, I also talk into a microphone. It usually sounds kind of gurgly, I guess. Yeah. That's how I describe it. That's how it's on the liner notes. Talking into a microphone, sometimes kind of gurgly. Toilet bowl voice. Yeah.

It's just toilet sounds. Matt, I do guitar and vocals on the band. Hey, I'm Sebastian. I play guitar and sometimes reinforce the choruses.

Vocally? Yeah, vocally. Nice. And Mike, Hamilton, drums? I'm just guy that sits in the back. I'm the lazy guy that sits on my ass and just does this. He gets a look at our butts.

Every show. He's the luckiest guy in the world. I just look at my drums. I don't think you could call a definite drummer lazy. No. Probably. I get to chill.

Would that be the hardest job? Oh, definitely. I don't know. It's physical, it's pretty physical, but these guys are out there running around and, you know, head-banging, which I don't do, which I'm glad I don't have to. I'm just pretending I'm in L.A. Goens, I mean, it's diminishing returns. I dance around a lot, but I want to play, like, two strings out. I had the luck for it's sitting at one spot to do everything I do, but to have these guys running around playing and singing and entertaining. That's, I think that's a lot of work itself.

Yeah. So that's, for me, I'm just kind of chilled back there in my element. It's like an office job. Sometimes it's just typing. TBS reports, blasties. It's almost the same. Dr. Filthy has the hardest job. Some 18th, some quarter notes.

Dr. Filthy has the hardest job. He has to see to wear health care needs every day. Right. He has to bring us drinks on stage. Body massages, foot rubs. He does do the worm. He does the worm every night. He does some breakdancing.

Dr. Filthy, our mascot. Yeah, he's our mascot. Sick. Well, yeah, I think we all have. have our body we all have different damaged body parts right i guess that might make some of sense yeah right for sure what hurts most on this tour mike my brain just the words right out of my mouth dude that's the hardest man like trying to keep like mental clarity out there trying to keep like yourself intact out there is definitely

has been my shocking thoughts i'm like how do i don't know a way to keep them my thoughts and brain healthy out there. It's tough. It's hard. I just always try to remind myself that I wouldn't want to do anything else and I'm happy to be here. And I think that ultimately, it keeps me going personally. There's nothing I'd rather do. So when I feel like, ah, this shit sucks.

Like, I don't want to be here right now. I just want to go home. Like, dude, I get to do this. This is pretty fucking sick, you know. Yeah, we have a crazy life. Yeah, exactly. It's nuts. I like to make the band stop at toy stores so I can regress to a childlike state.

by G.I. Joe's. Yeah. So that works for me. Yeah, I think everybody has to find, like, their own way. I mean, you know, my thing is I just try to let go of as much stuff as I possibly can. It's like, that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. Yeah. Because I don't know if I start thinking about all that, I'll get really uptight and pissed off or whatever. So it's just sort of, you know, like I said, but everybody has their own sort of thing.

And I also go to the toy stores as well. Yeah. That helps, too. You've got to take time for self-care. Some distract, yeah. Sometimes just take a walk, just get away from the venue. So just strollers, do something like that. Yeah, the other day, Ross and I went with our merch girl to go get pedicures.

Yeah, got pedicures? Yeah, it's my first time. That's pretty dope. Yeah, it was the first time, mine not. Yeah, you get a nice hot stone rub on your feet and get calluses ripped off. And it's just like, you know, some self-care is very important. What's a stone rub? Oh, they get the hot stones out and they, like, you know, go against, like, your cap muscle and on the bottom of your feet.

Oh, wow. It just feels absolutely wonderful because you're either sitting or, you're, you're either sitting or, you're, you're, you're jumping around on stage and, yeah, your feet can, uh, especially, you have, taking the most impact. Well, just being stupid musician types, you get stupid calluses and you're disgusting and you don't shower enough and then, yeah. Go baby yourself a little bit. I just feels good.

Yeah, it does. I got in the spa this morning. Yeah, you get in the hot tub. Relax in the hot tub. We finally found a working one in this entire country. Go find a massage parlor. Damn, living it up. I mean, you know, 60 bucks or 60 bucks.

Got to take care of yourself. Jesus. I'm in the wrong thing. Well, you get, you know, you get older. You got to take care of those things and try to like, you know, the aching back, it's going to hurt. But if you take care of, say, your feet, you have some good shoes on. It's huge.

And try to get all the relaxing times in that you can in a crazy, hectic schedule. Yeah. As you know, the hardest part is getting, like, decent, good sleep. The sleep and also eating healthy foods. That's like, you know, I'm just a... God. You turn into a human garbage can. You just throw whatever is available at the moment.

moment just to eat it and just like all right there's whatever roller shit that's from the loves yeah all the bean and cheese tacos yeah just the mysterious you know rolling things on the hot fucking pen you're like uh I don't get three of it's a glamorous lifestyle four food groups meat pizza

mac and cheese and bean burritos beer yeah and beer and beer that's five always beer yeah that's at the top we had we had we had three work the pyramid yeah actually it's the bottom because you need the most and then it goes up from there

that's where you get all your carbs right that's the foundation to what career yeah career and longevity and metal you got you got the pyramid right absolutely okay wow so you put the mental health at the lowest right right okay and then sleeps right above that

it's sad but true it is it's fucking nuts dude and you know we sign up for it like two or three times a year and we'll get out there we love it we love it you know it's the payoff is just having the fans show up and fucking rock out with you.

Ultimately, that's what we do it for. It's just create music and just play live. I tell you, I do it for the toy stores. Toysville. The reason I do is to get out to toy stores across America. But you can sit at home and just be on Amazon the whole time. Yeah, but that's not fun. It's not fun.

Yeah, when you fight it in the wild, you're just like, yes. I mean, literally that one, too. I try to find time to go do stupid things in every town, like fun things. Like, in Tulsa has the center of the universe where you go clap and it sounds Like it's just, you got to entertain yourself through it all. You do. And go find, like, little tourist spots and find those,

and get to those spots when you can. Because, I mean, you're out there traveling. I just don't really see. I mean, it's great to play the show, but I don't necessarily want to sit around a venue all day. No, you got to walk around, see some stuff. Like, the biggest ball in town in Minnesota. You have this unique opportunity to, like, be,

travel in places that other people wouldn't necessarily get to go. I've seen so many damn things over my life. It's amazing. I know. so much and you guys literally, I mean, you were just talking about like, it's crazy how the fans are still at the shows. I mean, after, I mean, Zoom's been in a band for like 32 years, right, Matt? Something like that.

Yeah, it sounds depressing when you say it like. But yeah, the first record came out 24 years ago, which is just kind of shocking to con him play. Three more years in the 401k kicks in, right? I'm just sticking around until the 401K gets vested and then I'll see the suckers later. No, dude, I mean, that's really insuffer. inspiring to me because I've been in Suezah Sons for 20 years. That's awesome.

And it doesn't feel like 20 years. It's like, you know, and you kind of like, all we have is like looking at bands like you guys or like someone that's been doing it longer than me and how long they can sustain. It's like I look at bands like you guys. You know, so it's fucking badass. We do the same thing, you know. I mean, like I know having toured with a bitch or a bunch and talk to, you know, John and Donald and just. kind of looking at the way that they would try to like, you know, situate the band, you know, not necessarily musically,

but just in terms of like figuring out how is this really going to work. Yeah. You know, I feel like I've personally learned a lot from them. And like, you know, we look at like Campbell, you know, and the way that they're sort of this almost like rigid schedule of productivity. And I think that that kind of forces you to be more creative because you're like, hey, in two years, we've got to make a fucking record. So let's, you know, get on it and get out there and, you know, sort of make it be something that is sustainable or whatever.

So, I mean, it's always, you know, everybody's just learning from everybody else. And it's all trial and error. And it's one of the things that's awesome about the Internet age and the 21st century or whatever, that there's just so much more information available on how to fucking be in a band and make it actually, you know, more or less work. Well, Cannibal is pretty much the blueprint, dude. Oh, yeah. As far as productivity and as far as staying on schedule and just their fucking schedule, man. Like, they're always on tour or writing a new record or recording a new record.

And the new record is always good. I mean, that's, you know, killer music. That's a real, like, how do you do that, you think, guys? What's that? How do you write just always good music? Oh, don't. We don't. You're asking the wrong band.

Oh, I don't know either. What the fuck? It starts with just still. having that fire and that passion for what you do, man. If you're still passionate about it, then, you know, they chose in the music that you write. I think it's just about, like, you just got to be honest, you know, and it's like when you try to...

You got to be stoked on what you're doing, and you've got to sort of just come from the same perspective and you kind of keep whatever it was that made you want to start doing this. Like, you've got to keep that, and then sort of, as long as you're expanding out directly from there, then it probably won't suck. You know, and the other thing is that you've got to be able to, like, in this band, we're pretty open with each other, you know, if something's not working or isn't good or whatever,

it's like, you just be like, I don't like this part, like, do something else. Like, all right, cool. Instead of like, no, this is my spiritual essence in this one combination of notes, and you're destroying me. It's just like, oh, shit, this riff sucks. All right, cool. I think it also helps you. Just like being curious people, still listening to new music.

Like having wanted to have new experiences instead of getting into like a muddled way of thinking like oh everything was only good back then when I was in high school and everything sucks now and it's like I mean we're still going to be doing the same thing like basic the same thing but it's not going to get a stale

because we are trying to you know it's always exhumed but we still have a passion for making stuff and seeing other people make stuff. Like staying true to yourself keeping your formula the same but trying new elements on every record just to kind of have a fresh kind of appeal.

Even if you're staying kind of stagnant within your realm, at least you still have the creative fire to want to do that and to have fun and appreciate the things. And just hang out with some people you actually like playing music with, which is always a... Aw, you like playing music with us? Wow. Oh, my goodness.

What a love there, man. I mean, that's why... I mean, I just met Matt in high school, and I didn't even play anything, and I just wanted to hang out with my friends. So I was like, well, I guess I better learn how to play an instrument because they keep doing that all the time, and I'm just sitting around.

So, yeah, I was just playing with friends for, like, 20-plus years. And I think that's a key element, is to keep that kind of friendship going and talk things out when you get frustrated and have good times and laughs. If you don't like the guys in the band that you're playing with, like, why are you in that band? I mean, unless you then makes, like, a shit load of money.

Well, then that's, like, I mean, well, that's not us. Right. No, no. We,

that's not there yet. Yeah. You made like $250,000 a year. Like, okay, you can put up with some shit. No, that's like some of the dopest shit on tour.

We got the, we could like rent it out a house and hung out with another band on the tour and grilled and drank and played trivial pursuit and just be bullshitted. So that was, that was like a great night on tour. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's great.

You guys are like, seems you're, your friends first. I think so. For me, yeah, for sure. Yeah,

you just, you're, I think that's how we'd always kind of looked at it when we were kids, which did not necessarily lead to the best, like,

personnel decisions. Oh, really? We're like, you know, there would be like a kid, you know, this is back when I was,

like, in high school, a kid that was like, good at drums, but I was like, this kid's an idiot. Like, I can fucking imagine hanging out with this guy,

he's a fucking moron. Or, you know, this guy that was like, really good at guitar, but he was like, I don't know, man, terrorizer. That's just a bunch of bullshit noise. Like, you can go fucking jam with that guy.

Them's fighting words. You know, but in high school, it was a lot of lines drawn on the sand. It was really just about trying to find people that were like-minded and people that you'd want to spend time with because, you know, if the band, if your project becomes successful, like you're going to be, and not like, in a small, you know, lowercase successful. Yeah, you're spending time with these people. forever. It's cool the way it worked out like me joining the band and shit because we were friends. I'd done a tour with

these guys before but not playing with them. It's like with my other band. Noise them. They're very good. Shout out. Shout out. Plug it in. No, no. No, no. No, you know. Self plug for me. But yeah, just like, you know, hanging out with these guys and, you know, having them

come stay at my house and just jamming with them one night. It was just organic that when I got the phone call. I was like, oh yeah, I'll come on tour with you guys. What do you need? Like, merch guy, driver, guitar tech. Wow. We want you to play. Damn, that's sick. What? Me?

You think we can afford a guitar tech? You're wild. Did you know when you saw the name on your phone? Oh, wait, they're probably going to call me a for it. No. I didn't know. I thought it was like maybe they were coming to town and they needed a place to stay again. So I was like, yeah, what's up, dude? Like, hey, what's the rest of your year looking like?

And I'm like, well? To be fair, Alson. needed a place to stay. That's all good. Come by the hot box. Oh my goodness. So Matt, you went to high school with Ross? No.

I went to high school with Cole Jones, the original drummer from. And he said, hey, you're a like-minded dork. Come over and play TSR Marvel Superheroes roleplaying with my friend, and I think you'll have a good time. And then when I met Ross, I was like, oh, this is the kid that shopped to the comic book store where I work at. I was like, I think I know this guy. And then,

yeah, it was really kind of dumb because the high school, Ross and Cole went to was like a quarter mile from my house and I took the bus to this other school across town, which was silly.

But anyway. But yeah, so me and Cole, I started just hanging around with those guys, and I was into some, like getting into some metal and stuff. Were you like a sophomore?

I was a junior. I was like getting into some metal and listening to some stuff and then like there's like, here check out carcass. Just skip all that formative stuff. We've already done the hard work for you. We've already gone through all these other mid-bands. Here's carcass. Here's godflesh. Here's napalm death.

And here's Voivod. And so I was just like, how do you process that? How do I process? Well, I mean, I just jumped right to death metal. Then I had to go back and relearn some old thrash and heavy metal stuff that I come to love later. Yeah. So, but yeah, I got a boosted up a grade.

I never heard of that. Someone just kind of skipping the whole like, like the gateway bands. Yeah, yeah. I can't imagine. It was great. It saved me a lot of time. I didn't have to go, I didn't have to like learn about funk thrash right then and like that kind of stuff. It was like, no, here's just go to the heavy show.

Wait, so no infectious grooves? No, nope, skip right past that. It was great. Oh, shit. well yeah yeah Cole is uh so so Matt

when how did you and Cole me because who did did you found the band or was it like a co-found um well Cole and I met on the school bus in like seventh grade

the school bus yeah okay that's sick as fuck yeah I charming I was going to uh like a

I had a scholarship to this private school and uh I lost a scholarship because I was a disciplinary problem. And my parents were just like my mom was a nurse, my dad was like assistant manager at a grocery store.

So they could not afford the tuition. So I went to public school and I didn't know anybody. And Cole had just moved to California from Utah. And so he also didn't know anybody. And I was just kind of getting in a metal and we were both kind of into like, you know,

D&D comics and stuff like that. And so at first I was like, God, this gets kind of a dork or whatever. And then by, like, eighth grade, we started becoming, like, really good friends. And I was sort of, you know, being like, dude, check this tape out, check this tape out, check this, you know. Like, have you heard Venom? Have you heard Salt Lake Frost?

Have you heard Voivod? Have you heard creator? Have you heard Sodom? Have you heard Scream Buddy Gore? Like, you know. And then we just had kind of a group of friends. And we always talked about our band and, oh, we're going to be in a band. We're going to do this.

And it's going to be blah, blah, blah, blah. and eventually people started picking up instruments or whatever and Cole was like the only one that didn't have an instrument and we're like well we have a friend that plays bass I play guitar we have another friend that plays guitar where he decided our other random friend is going to be the singer so I guess you have to get a drum kit and then he had a saxophone from like a school band or whatever

so he sold that and then bought a drum set and yeah this is all in like 90-91 or whatever we were like like, you know, 14, 15 or whatever. And then we just started just making a bunch of noise in my dad's garage. And then as things sort of developed, some of the kids left. And then other kids came in. And then by like 91, I think we played our first show in October, right out to my 16th birthday in October 91.

Wow. That's crazy. It is kind of wild, like, thinking back on it. I mean, I don't know. It just seemed normal or whatever. But, yeah. just like a 14 year old kid Like all right

You ever heard crepitating bowel erosion It's a good one How did you find bands back then? Like For me I was a little bit different Than a lot of kids In that I didn't have like a older brother

Or a cousin or anything But I came from like the comic book world That was my shit Before I got into metal And there's a lot of sort of research Involved in that Like you'd be reading an issue And it would be like

Who is this? guy and there'd be a note that'd be like if you saw Invincible Iron Man number 231 you saw that he escaped from the ice he was frozen or whatever and then you'd go back and get it and so I'd read all these magazines and I'd be like what is this band that's getting like one sentence

of mention or what is this guy's t-shirt or whatever I remember that was a big one was like oh he's wearing that what's that sick looking t-shirt that like you know so-and-so is wearing it's like I'm going to go look up for that band somewhere at the record store the mail order a lot of it was mail order catalogs and just going through it well that name sounds

cool I'm going to go ahead and buy that. There was a certain period where there was a lot of record labels you could just be like well okay they just put out a new record I've never even heard of this band but yeah like you could just buy the record and know it was at least going to be decent a lot of it was just the magazines too and then you get the tape and you open the tape up

and then the you know the DJ card was basically the order for them for all the bands are on that label or you're like that's like oh shit of the bands yeah thanks list of some cool sounding band I'm going to go check that I literally had like a notebook and I would just write down band names that I'd heard of and I was like or see me in the thanks list. I got to try and remember these and like

you know if I can find them. And we took like road trips down to LA to go to like Wild Rags records and we're just like all right pick out anything with a cool cover. I just like never heard it like because that was a like one of the few places that would really have like lots of cool underground music anywhere. So we'd have to. It was like

you could at first it was like if it was on Eric you could buy it. Absolutely. It was like without fail. The first like 25 earic releases like you knew that they were going to be like extreme or heavy or whatever. Combat was like that too. Right.

Well, yeah, it started in the thrash days. First, yeah, there was combat. There was noise. Metal Blade sometimes. And then it was like Earache, Roadrunner. And then, like, Seraphic decay, like, because they put out, like, the Mortation demo and the Morbent Angel demo, bootleg seven inch and the goraphobia seven inch and the abhorrence,

like the pre-amorphous, like, death metal band or whatever. And you just kind of, I don't know. And then everybody bought a little bit and then everybody taped everything for everybody. Like, as soon as you got a... an album you're like making a tape to like give to your friends. Yeah, absolutely. That's sick. And that's what we would do. You know, we were like just dorks that couldn't get late.

So we just sit around after school like on the weekends and just like, have you heard this? Have you heard this? Oh shit, this man's heavier than that man. Have you heard this? Yeah. And it was like a. Yeah. So eventually just going to shows and meeting other people finally.

Sure. Once you got old enough to get in. Yeah, it was like 90. I remember the big one for me and not. was the death pestilence carcass tour. And I remember it was like a week before my 15th birthday. And I told my parents, I'm like, I don't want a birthday present. I just want you to let me go to the show that's on a Thursday night.

I promise I'll go to school the next day. I'm not going to cut school. Just let me go. And that was sort of the first, you know, because in our group of friends, there was like Cole and I, this was before Ross. There was Cole and I. We were always like, guys, I like creators, I like creator too. but like you got to hear, you know, carcass,

you got to hear extreme noise here. You got to hear napalm death. Like this is like way heavier. It's more extreme. And we went to that show and our friends so were like, oh, this is what you guys keep talking about. It's like, yeah, dude, this is way more intense. And then from there, we started meeting other kids, you know.

And we were like kids, we're children. I wasn't even 15 yet. And so then we started meeting kids from, like, Sacramento, or kids from Fairfield or kids from even in Tascadero the town I live in. These kids used to drive up for every show. And then you start talking and then you just expand it from there.

It was like, you know, it's just the internet before the internet really. But it was a lot of writing people. There was like, and then if you had a band. Ross was really good at right. Yeah, once I was in the group and then I started they were kind of like not doing as much mail and stuff and I was like, well, I've been trading tapes and doing this stuff with other people and so there was a lot of tape

trades and we'd be sending out demos everywhere, any zine. I found a, because people would pack the envelopes with flyers as a little, like, I guess this little time document about what it was like back then. Yeah, you sent mail around and like you meet a guy he like wanted to trade tapes and like I'll send you this and flyers at shows and stuff like that. And then you'd like send all those flyers in the mail. You'd get other flyers.

You'd look at these bands and it's like, okay, well, that looks really gross. I'm going to order that tape. That's funny. I can't read this. Let's buy it. Yeah, it looks like it. It's sharp and it looks like it would hurt. I'm definitely getting this band.

And yeah, so that's the side we kind of communicated then. And that's like... I mean, we just hand your demos out at shows. You just burn your own tapes and be like, here, here's my band. Check them out. Here's my band. Check them out. And flyers and all that.

Holy shit. Well, the first, like, I think the first, the split CD you did with Hemdale, which I guess is of some note now. But we literally were going to Cannibal Corp shows and just handing out free CDs and people were, like, refusing them. They wanted no part of that. They was like, what the fuck? I don't know who the fucking guys are, but like, I just kind of wish we'd held on to them for eBay. But the tape trading days, that was a, like, that was a, like, that was. when everybody was busting their ass

to try to get exposure for your ban it's like pass out you go to like Kinkos and make your own J cards and your own flyer Carol the copy lady at Kinkos She loved us when coming at like midnight She'd get us get all the free copies Because we were talking to her

And kept her awake Yeah I'm pretty sure she's on several Several pills Yeah And she was definitely on man Yeah so but yeah we was like But yeah

She was a nice lady The wacky world Cut demo covers And now you can just make a band camp. And I don't want to say that's like any of less of an experience. I think it's awesome that people can do stuff like that now and just have a band camp and send it out. And thank God you don't have to stay up like, you're in all your Saturday nights fucking sending out demo tapes. Like it's great.

I mean, the cool thing about that time period was not only were we like playing music that was kind of new. Not new, but just something that was different. But you're also, you were promoted your own band. And so how hard you work depends on how successful you want to be. like getting on the shows. Straight up. Yeah. And, you know,

the more you worked and promoted your band, like California concerts, I think was the one that they would see your name and like, oh, this band's kind of rising and they did like a pay-to-play kind of deal

where they give you tickets to sell. They'd pay. They were like a Tuesday or Wednesday or like a Thursday night you didn't care you. Just give the tickets away just so your friends would show up just so that you can continue to play shows

and they'd put you on bills with, you know, national acts. And then that just keeps bumping your status up and you're getting your name or recognized. That's kind of what, we did all through high school. Yeah. There was this, yeah, California concerts.

They owned like three venues that did the overwhelming majority of the underground metal shows. And they really liked us because we were these like squeaky clean kind of like nerdy kids. And we would always show up and we would always pay whatever it was, you know, $350 or $400 bucks to open for Mormit Angel or whatever the fuck. And we didn't like, we didn't cause trouble. We weren't like trying to be underage drinkers. We were just like, holy shit. it. You know, I'm 16

and my band is opening for autopsy and I get to watch an autopsy sound check. Like, this is dream come true. And they're like, yeah, you can have all the Coca-Cola you want. And so it was... That was me for many, many years on 12th. Yeah. So it was...

You know, but it ended up. Unfortunately, all those clubs closed at the same time because they were all owned by the same people and we'd kind of been in this closed system. So it was like right after I graduated high school, all closed and it was like how do we get a show we've only been playing the same three clubs for like two and a half

years you had to meet a bunch of other people West legendary West Robinson all those other people who are kind of and they played some really fucked up shitty places the stone and the dark days of death metal started coming in around like the early to mid 90s and

clubs were closing and the band stopped coming through into like the punk house thing as well yeah then we started playing punk houses and we had basements in San Francisco Yeah, that's like where bands can really thrive. It's like the DIY community. Like, I don't think it's, you know, much different than what we're doing. I mean, maybe like in terms of pay scale or whatever, but it's very similar, you know.

It's really the exact same. It's just a question of scale. Yeah. Because we used to play V.A.W. halls and houses, living rooms, basements, just wherever. We used to. The pub that we did. There was the library scene that we were like spearheaded for a while. I found a basement library.

And that's where, like, a library basement. Yeah, library basement. We'd rent it out, had like play with like Spaz and... Sick. Did Immortal Fader? Oh, there was their band after. They played there. It was no less. No less. And dead bodies everywhere, Newt Grush. Yeah, they're all playing this tiny little basement to like 30 kids that lived in and around Cupertino in San Jose.

That's what we... We just had to kind of build a thing. Yeah, it kind of started growing. And then until we... Until we... We flew too close to the sun. And they trashed the place. Oh, no.

I was like, no. The cops are like holding me up against the wall. what have you done? I'm like, I can't control these people. So the library scene died. But then actual club started having us again. And that was like,

I remember I think it was like John Cobbitt had us like, lose her tammer the first time. And he was like, hey, here's 150 bucks. And I'm like, wait,

that's how this works. You get money? You get money for playing music? Like, this is the first time. Yeah. That's a big deal. That was like,

wow. I like this feeling. I want this to Continue. Now look at us. Yeah, because it was the Oakland Omni, the stone. And one step beyond and one set beyond. Those are the three clubs that all the death metal touring acts would come through.

Until, yeah, until that close. Yeah. And then there was the Berkeley Square, which kind of sucked. But you guys played the Gilman a lot too back in the way, right? Yeah, we played Gilman Street a lot. Yeah. Although we got banned and then unbanned multiple times. Yeah.

Because we had sexist lyrics. It's a very, it's a punk, a very famous. Monclober. Berkeley. Like Green Day got there starting all that stuff. And then the have always changing rules.

I think they said, also in the, we got signed to Relapse. That was too major of a label. We were on a major label. To let us play there. Relapse was considered a major label. This is like 1997.

Right. It was very not a major label. But yeah, all those like little places that you kind of, you kind of, you just had to kind of fight for your places to play and figure things out in the those times in the 90s.

and then started opening it up again in the 2000s. It was much nicer. Yeah. Actual places and actual metal nights at various small bars, but it was a lot of fun and building a community there too. Because you would, like, promote and book your own shows. Like, you would promote your own band. Ross really did most of that work, yeah.

I was always like, I don't want to be involved in the business side. It was like, and amazingly throughout the years, it was like, wow, we don't have our shit together on the business side. Oh, dude, for real. And then when we started the band again, whatever it was, 10 or 11 years ago, that started to finally change. I love not being part of the business side. Matt's a good papa, he takes care of us.

I try. I just get in the van and play guitar. That's fucking sick. There we go. And that's after years of being the guy on tour where I did all the driving, I handled like settling up and advancing shows and shit. It's nice to just get in a van. I just work here.

That's what's up. You guys talk about there is a dark time in death metal. What, it was, that was, like, the mid-nighties? Yeah. What, what, like, like, what, like, what, like, like, to us, personally? Or, like, the, I feel like, there was, like, a, there was that, I feel like the beginning, really marking point of that was, like, when Sony picked up all those bands. All the earache bands. All the earache bands.

All the ear-ig, all these ear-ache bands. And then they put out albums that I thought were super awful and posery then, but now I've gone back and listened to them. I was like, wow, I was just a little shit kid. I mean, Wolverine Blues is a great fucking record. It's fun. But like it kind of took this turn. They thought death metal was going to be the next big thing. And it really wasn't.

And all that shit kind of came crashing down. And then I think there was just also move just in live music in general. So it wasn't just death metal. I think there was that like DJ started taking over clubs. Because hey, we can only, we can pay one guy. There's the same amount of people who show up and pay one guy to spin records. And instead we don't have to have live bands at this venue. and I think MTV was going to go all electronica at that point too, like around the prodigy.

And so there was kind of that turn away from just like the standard rock and roll kind of status quo going on there. So it affected every kind of genre of music, I think. As a fan for me, like I really felt like 93. There was like a big sort of sea change where the bands that I was most interested in as a death metal fan all sort of moved away from death metal and became more. The melodic or whatever. The death and roll. Yeah, it was like you had your Wolverine blues and your heartwork and your individual thought patterns and some of these kinds of things. I think a lot of that probably came from label influence because they weren't getting the numbers that they wanted as far as sales.

And they're like, we need you to do this kind of sound. This is what's going to sell. And death metal was just like. Oh, if you go a little more rock and roll, you guys will be like actual platinum. I know that's what Carcass thought. Yeah. And I did on the radio. And I know Chuck was like, death metal is so confining and everybody's so derivative.

and it's all blub-br-blah-blah and blast beats and I don't want to do that. So I think it's a mix of commercial expectations. And, you know, death metal is, it's stylistically very limiting. So I kind of, in hindsight, can't blame those bands or wanting to try something different. But it does suck as a fan. As a fan, like, it was very...

Kind of veered away from the core of what they was hurtful, you know? Yeah, we're like... Your logo's block letters now, you, right? You stabbed me. You stabbed me. Chuck, you changed the invert. and crossed to just a T and it broke me.

I'll show you on the doll where it hurt me. But it was, because it was like something that, you know, as much as I don't think we were a band that has ever taken ourselves seriously,

like as a fan that back then I took really, really seriously and that sort of became, but that was almost like, it was good because that became like the impetus to sort of

define like what was exhumed gonna do because really like the first couple demos and stuff, I don't really think we had much of an idea aside from like, we want to be a death metal band. Okay, whatever.

We want to play fast. That was it. And then like 94 or 95 when there wasn't a lot of like death metal that we were terribly interested in coming out and the scene was changing, that was kind of our time to sort of retreat and woodshed and be like, so like what exactly are we doing? Like what is our thing? That's smart. Yeah.

And then we started looking like because black metal was really. really ascendant. And that's the other thing is that you don't really realize when you're 15, 16, 17, that scenes only last like five or six years. And then some bands continue and some bands fade away and whatever. And every scene, whether it's, you know, thrash or deathcore or fucking new romantic or whatever, like there's like five or six years where it flourishes

and then it starts to get super big and then it kind of just dissipates and some bands endure and some don't. But you don't have the perspective when you're a kid deeply involved in the scene and you're living and dying for these records like oh my God and so we kind of took that time and we started kind of looking backwards

and thinking about a lot of the 80s metal and the 80s thrash and sort of how we could take that attitude and put it into the more like extreme shit that we were doing and that's kind of I think like when Exhumed sort of became exhumed and not just like local band number 3,246

or whatever You know, still sort of, you know, we've always been honest about being like a pretty like, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel or anything, but we just sort of, this is our take and this is what we're doing. And that's kind of like where it started. And then that ended up eventually, you know, working out fairly okay for us, you know. Yeah. And you guys have your own sound. Obviously, you have your influences, but you've developed, you know, it's your sound, you know.

And it sounds like during a dark time, it seems a key, you just endure and then just think about who you are and where you want to go. And then at what point did you guys start riding Gore Metal? At what point is that? Well, we did the split with Hemdale. And then we did like a string of seven inches. And then I think we just kind of, I mean, it was just like, okay, we'll do the next thing. We got the finally got signed by relapse. So then it was like, oh, wow, we're going to actually make a record.

and we're going to fight over a lot about what's going to go on that record. Yeah, I mean, because we were... A bunch of, like, contentious, really angry, early 20s years old, of course. So, like, yeah, it was... But it was, like, yeah, it was... I think, yeah, Cole and I were very adamant that we couldn't reuse any 7-inch songs. Which I thought was a terrible idea, because I thought those were some of the better songs that we'd written, so we ended up using songs that were older and not as good, but, I mean, really, like...

So, yeah, so it wasn't, like, a focused writing period. there was some stuff that was already on the table as far as it was like I assumed at that point was just kind of writing all the time because it was like okay well there might be a seven inch here there might be a split CD here because that was like the only kind of shit that we were getting until we got signed the goremetel existed as a concept before we

signed a relapse because the label that did the Hemdale split visceral productions Craig had Craig the drummer for Hemdale he was really kind of becoming a force to be reckoned with in the underground and he was he had this really big distro that was kind of taken a bite out of Relapse's direct mail order sales.

I mean, it's, you know, this is all sounds very archaic now. But in the 90s, like a big thing, relapse, their whole focus was direct mail order sales to customers, whereas Century Media's focus was wholesale to record stores. And so Relapse had this massive distro in catalog with every fucking obscure 7-inch in the world or whatever. and what Craig's business model was very similar to relapse and he had just signed Nile and Incantation had just gone off of relapse

and he signed Incantation and put out, I forget what the EP is for Saken Morning of Angelic Anguish or something anyway and so his label was really growing and he had, you know, we did the it was just a handshake deal for the split and he was like, I want to do the full ninth record

and we're like, cool, we're going to do a record and as his business sort of continued to grow and we didn't really have like, he wasn't professional enough to be like, hey guys, get in the studio at X time so we can make X release date. We were just, we weren't professional enough to know

that that was a thing you should do. We were just sort of writing songs and talking about this album, you know, as a kind of just vague concept. And then his business got too big and relapse was like, well, how about we saw, and we buy your whole distro and then we'll have the option to buy these contracts we never

signed a contract anyway so I felt really bad for John from incantation because they'd worked really hard to get out relapse and then relapse bought the company that they signed anyway so you ended up back on relapse and they've since returned again so I guess it wasn't that bad and that's how relapse got Nile and that's how they got us as well and they just had an option whether they wanted to sign us or not. Like Scattered Remnants was another band that was in there, and they opted not to exercise the option on Scenario. They didn't have like an option for us.

They approached us separately because our label had just disappeared. Well, I mean, but that was sort of how the approach worked. Thankfully, Matt Jacobson, who owned Relapse. His roommate was a guy named Tom Haley that did a radio show called Shainsaw Rock in Rale, North Carolina, and he loved Exhumed. And he worked at Relapse. So it was like, cool, the owner of the label's roommate loves our band. And you just got the option to sign us from this other thing.

I was like, okay, cool. So we kind of snuck in that way. We were not like courted with like, you know. It would definitely wasn't corded. They're like, like, it was definitely like, finally got, finally got a thing. He said, well, we'll give you a contract, we guess, because what the hell is you going to do? You're all right. You'll probably sell a few records.

I mean, they're like, yes, please, please. Of course. They clearly did not really have a lot of faith in the marketability of the record because they give us 1,800 bucks to record the first album. Yeah. Which even in 1998 is like jacked shit. But I think we were like, wow, golly, gee, Willinghurst. So you definitely went over a budget.

No, no, we did not. That's why there was, we recorded three more songs to a record that we never mixed and we're lost. And that's why it sounds how it sounds. And that's why it sounds how it sounds. We just literally ran out of time. It's like, well, this is it guys. But what was, what was like the writing process like? I said a lot of it was random because like, yeah, we were just, we'd be like, oh, some, like,

our friend offered us a split seven inch. So I guess we're using these two songs we were working on for this split seven inch. Then we'd have like another couple more. So it was never like, it was never like, it was never like, it was a concept that we were definitely going to have an album at some point. But it was never like, now this song's definitely for the record. It was more like we're just making a bunch of fuck. Yeah, we had like three songs that never even made the record.

Rift libraries. It was never like, it was never like super focused. It was just like, okay, well, these are the, the ones that we recorded, they sound decent enough, and that's the ones going to the record. We'll get these other ones later. It was also like we'd really, you know, at the time, for a lot of that, it was just Ross and Cole and myself. Leon, Don't Warte, who later went on to play and Impaled and Nails and a million other

bands. He kind of left in like 97, and then I think the three of us all had very different ideas about what the record was going to be. Ross was like, it's a CD. We can put 70 minutes of music on it. should put as much as possible. And I was like, my thing was like we should be using

the, you know, eight to ten best songs. And Cole's like, but we've already recorded those songs. We'll never use those again. And so it was a very contentious sort of process that was not,

we were not on the same page at all. It was deeply unpleasant. It was the worst recording experience I had in the entire time I've been recording records. But we, Mike came in later. Yeah, Mike, we did a European tour with Hemdale.

We'd never played outside of California, and so we figured, we'll go to Europe for 10 days. All perfect. And I think... By the way, with zero merch, I highly recommend against... This is Mike Beam John Guitar, by the way, right? Yeah, yeah, Mike Beams.

Yeah, it's not Mike Hamilton. You came much later. We were not quite as dim-witted. No, we still are. Was there a... You talk about not a good experience and obviously the production quality Are you talking about creative tension or is it like

Oh yes lots of tension lots of tension Hard time in the studio too Like it was just some of the It was an interesting working experience Working with some of the people on that Yeah And we'll drop, leave it there I mean

The thing is that even though at that point We'd technically been a band for like seven years We were staunchly devoted To being unprofessional Like I mean, that was like our thing. We're like, I don't care about, like, metronomes or this or that. Like, I don't even think that I owned a tuner when we recorded the first album.

So that was sort of our whole thing. We're like, okay, there's all these other bands that are trying to be all pro, and it's like we're... Our thing's attitude. Yeah. Right. And so all of a sudden we're kind of thrust into the situation where it would have really helped to sort of have our shit together. And we're like, but yeah, but not having our shit together.

That's our thing, man. It's about feeling. Right. And so we sort of discovered pretty quickly that that was not enough. Because we do these recording sessions, you know, throughout the 90s. Some of them would go really well. And then the next time we'd go back and it would go terribly. It's like, well, because you're not preparing consistently and you're not like approaching.

Like a lot of stuff on the floor. We'd end up at some guys like weird studio that only ran from like midnight till 8 a.m. And just like, all right, well, let's go turn out of 7. today. Those are the after hours sessions. Yeah, the after hours. Who knows what he was on either. They were cheaper. So that's how we went into Gore Metal. So yeah, it wasn't like this

focused experience. It was just more like, okay, well, these are a group of songs. And we're going to record everything we can in this short amount of time on this tiny little budget and then some stuff got lost. But we were like, all right, well, this is a record. These are songs that can kind of go together. And it was a bit messy.

It was weird too because I don't think anybody in the band thought, well, Mike Beams, because he's relentlessly positive and upbeat. And he had just joined. And he's like, I'm in a band that signed. And we made a record. But I think the three of us all thought the record stunk. Yeah.

It was like, this shit stinks, man. I think we just all thought it stunk for different reasons. Right. But we were all right. It's so bizarre, man. Because as like an outsider, you know, like, as this. That's how like it's, I always say like this same where like, I don't know what my band sounds like.

Right. It's funny. And like, so me, like, taught, I, talking about gore metal and exhumed, that record sounds exactly the way I wanted to sound as a fan, and the songs are great, and I'm pretty sure your experience is very different. To be honest,

it probably does sound exactly over what it sounds like. It's so good, man. It's so fucking sick. A group of jackass is just going for it, and, you know, we just... There's a certain alert to that, though. Exactly. It is what it should be.

It's like listening to, like, the early Sepulteria shit where it's like, oh, you kids. Right? Yeah. But it's fucking killer, you know? Like, they're writing some shit that, you know, forms what becomes, you know, heavier thrash and death metal later even, you know. No, I have a fondness for it.

I think I hated it for a long time. And then I think once Ross and I sort of, because for many years we had a very acrimonious relationship and now. Yeah. I mean, Ross left. Yeah. No, no. Ross was asked to leave. Ross was told to leave. Yes.

Totally. Damn. That's beef. That's a whole set of attacks back and forth. And it was like, oh, well, by the way, this is all. our bit so you can actually go right all right well good fuck you and I'm out I had other projects and so it but yeah it was and then we had a real bad relationship and then we he then we kind of patched things up to be at least friendly with each other right and then Matt asked me he said

we're doing this re-recording and it was kind of interesting to revisit all that material with that kind of hindsight and having like kind of started rebuilding the friendship that we had years before and And so, yeah, now I have a much greater fondness for that original recording than I used to have for sure. I think that's the thing for me. It was just so, the experience was so negative. And I had these really good friends, you know, in Ross and Cole. And we weren't getting along. We all sort of like kind of, like, we were all frenemies and shit.

And so that was how I remember the record. Now when I hear it, I'm like, oh, this is kind of cute. Yeah. I love records that sound like shit. Like, I'm totally into like Welcome to Hell and Out in the Son of Evil and Recomput your Faction and all these records. that are technically quite bad. And so now I can hear the record. I'd be like, oh, this is pretty bad.

But this is the kind of bad that I could see myself liking if I wasn't in the band. And it's just like that old school cult sound. It was just like, as a listener, you like really had to do your due diligence to like what the hell are they actually playing? What the fuck is going on? I love that, yeah.

Because your imagination fills it in in a way that's like really kind of special. Trying to figure out what they're actually playing. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes that's how you end up writing your own riffs. Like I remember one time, I was trying of write, I was trying to learn how to play the intro for over the wall from Testament. And I did this thing that I thought was the harmony part that they do, the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-a-na kind of thing.

And I was like, this isn't it at all. Well, I guess I wrote that. That's the essence of it. You try to rip something off, but you do it so wrong that it ends up being original. It ends up being exhumored. Like, just take a pestilence riff, play it like, you know, backwards or something. Upside down and incorrect. Yeah.

So, Ross, for you, I'm sure it was such a different experience going from that time period in your life to like impale it. I'm sure that was way more like positive. Yeah. Yeah, from that. And then like, yeah, no, actually it paled. I mean, you know, we all, Matt and I've gone over this a million times with each other when we started talking about playing together again. But like that, I mean, it was a good learning experience. He got kicked out of a band, get in this other one.

and I was friends with people in that band, but not quite as tight as I'd been with Cole and Matt. And so, yeah, making those kinds of forging new friendships and learning how to interact with other people. And just the working, I mean, that band was also a sloppy mess when it started out too, but it got better. It was a pretty positive experience. And then, of course, there's all that we kicked Leon out at one point.

Now, Leon's back and impaled. I mean, it's kind of like this weird. Leon's been fired and rehired from me and Rosses. But yeah, I've been playing, you know, like I wasn't super tight with Sean from Impale when when Leon asked me to join Impale. But like we've now been playing music together for like 25 years nonstop in a couple projects together, Impale and some other stuff. And so, yeah, it was a really positive experience. And it helped me grow as a person going through that and then forging new bonds. And then it was finally was able to let go of a lot of shit.

And when Matt came back to me and was like, do you want to do this? I understand if you'd say no. I was like, no. You know what? I always said as a shit kid, I would never go back. But I was like, yeah, let's go do that re-recording. Hey, do you want to fill in for these shows?

And I was like, well, yeah, I want to play with napalm death. And boy, about that. Just wooing him back. Just wooing him back. Yeah. What else is really cool is, like, as a fan before joining the band and shit, you know, like there's two. Like, it was, you know, Ross was an exhumed first,

and then he splits off and does the impaled thing. There were two bands to love that were very, So like there's just more for me to listen to. In like a very selfish kind of manner. But like, you know, it sucks that it was a tumultuous. A gore-filled bounty for all. Yeah, exactly. Everyone wins.

And look at us. Here we are. Who to thug it? Not me. Together again for the first time. And so then you put out Slaughter Colt and then your third record and then it seems like you kind of had like a burnout. And the basically had like a five years. It kind of reaped.

Did you step away from like the death penalty? scene in as a whole or what? I was playing a repulsion at that time

which is like my favorite death metal and or grindcore band where whatever you want to put

them. It's like metallic and repulsion or like my favorite band. So I was

kind of scratching the itch that way you know and it was very cool playing a

repulsion because I sort of got to experience being in a band as just the

guitar player. I thought this is really fucking fun you know and I was just playing songs I loved and we got a lot of great gigs

because it's repulsion. It's like, hey, you guys want to do like a week doing direct support for At the Gates? Like, sure, why not? Just play the same 18 songs he got. And it was also really cool because Matt and Scott are

I don't know, like seven or eight years older than me and as someone that's intensely interested in the sort of early, you know, mid-80s kind of formative era of death metal, just sort of listening to them and talking to them and picking their brains about

the genre and their experiences was really beneficial and I always I played in a couple thrash bands and stuff and it just really the band kind of dissolved because Cole the original drummer

he graduated from college and he's like I want to pursue a career and I was like okay well I was kind of anticipating that but we really couldn't find a suitable drummer, you know, like it just wasn't, who played with like John from origin

who was like, it was like, it was just kind of like using, you need like a 22 and you got like an AR-15. It's like, this is a bit much. And. I saw John with that skinless and I was not stoked. Right. But John, you know,

it's also where John was at the time and he'll be the first to say it so I don't feel bad. I love John and we're friends to this day. But he, at the time, you know, he was supposed to be the extreme. middle future drummer guy.

And it was like he was more focused on becoming that person than like playing at a band and playing to the song or whatever. And especially I think when he left origin, I'm not sure exactly what the circumstances were, he had a lot to prove. And, you know,

he played like somebody who had too much to prove. And it was like, dude, the beats just to do, and he's like to do get to get to. It's like, whoa, dude. You know, I can't even stay on time with this. And we play with It's down time anyway

That's true But I like to play John It's John's ball Oh yeah Let's play ACDC song Real quick dude That's always the challenge With a lot of these extreme drummers

It's like can you play Hells Bells And a lot of them are just like Yeah it's easy And they'd like get Like the most stiff tank ass meet And so we just didn't really Find a lineup that stuck And when Cole left

Then Bud our old bass player Later guitar player He was like Oh this is a good time for me to leave And I was like, shit. So then it was me and Mike Beams. And, you know, we were trying to support the third record. And we did all these shows.

We did all these tours. And we got back and started working on this, like, covers thing because we're trying to break in this new drummer. And halfway through that, then Beams is like, yeah, I'm burnt out. Like, I want to stop. And I was like, damn. I already took the fucking advance. Like, I'm trying to make this record.

Like, why? You should have said that right when we got home. And then the band would have just split up, and it would have been clean. And I was kind of stuck. and we finished it and we did I was like well we'll do a tour we'll see how it goes and it was like nah the chemistry is just not there and uh I was like you know that was that was it was it was time to to to take a step back before you split who replaced mic on guitar uh Wes who played on August and oh no show never played a show with you on that line up on that tour it wasn't the

chemistry was not there no it was no it was not good yeah um got to have chemistry this anatomy anatomy is destiny anatomy I mean, yeah. The covers record. Garbage days. Yeah. Wes and I had a good, like, guitar relationship,

but the rest of the band just wasn't really there. And I was like, all right. So, yeah, we took a break for like five and a half years or something. And then you went surfing. Yeah. You learned to surf, kind of.

A little bit. I was more to, like, scuba diving and snorkeling. Sick. Because, yeah, you moved to Hawaii for a while. Yeah, I lived to Hawaii for, like, a year and a half. and it was one of those stupid moves that you're like with this chick and like oh it was just going to save our relationship oh of course but then I was like she laughed and I was like

I was like I was like I was pretty six so I'm just gonna hang out really six months yeah yeah brutal and then yeah then we then the band sort of came back together and you know about 10 11 years later here we are yeah and and Mike you've been playing for deeds of flesh since 99 yeah 99 How do you get hooked up with a Zoom? Well, in the Bay Area, back, say, mid, I think 94, 95, I was in the band Vial. And so we played shows together. That's how we knew each other.

We're all Bay Area kids. And so we all would see each other at the same shows. I'd like the Omni and the Stone and all that. And then, you know, one step beyond and all the different shows that happened in the Bay Area. And we started playing shows together with Violin and Exhumed. We played like a couple festivals and then Paradise Lounge. So we knew each other from just playing a few shows. and then Viol and Deeds did a tour,

and then Deeds was having issues with their drummer, and they asked me to join the band just to do a tour. So I started going down to Stan Loose Obispo and learning the material, and I was like, this is actually really interesting and very, like, pushing my boundaries as far as, you know, a drummer. So I was, like, more interested in that than Vial. And Vio was kind of dissolving at that time, because most of the guys won, the vocalist, just wanted to just do studio.

The other guitar player was married and moved up to Reno, So he was, we didn't have a bass player. So it just kind of started dissolving from there. So moved down there and played with Deeds for, yeah, 20 years. And then in 2011, I think Matt, I mean, Matt has a brother that works in the local bar, the Irish bar. Yeah. And I would kind of keep tabs on Matt. Like, hey, what's Matt up to?

What's he doing? He's like, yeah, he's going to actually move to the Central Coast. I'm like, oh, sick. So I'm thinking to my mind, this is a cool opportunity just to jam with somebody that I know and just never thought about joining Xun. but then Deeds was inactive for like five years. And Eric was very focused on the label and he didn't really want to tour. So it's just kind of like,

here's my opportunity. He's just jamming with somebody that knows how to play death metal that's on the Central Coast, which not a lot of musicians on the Central Coast. It's a very small town. It's a little island, you know? Yeah, so then he moved and we started hanging out and jamming

and then we're just playing covers. And then from there, he's like, well, I just put a new record out, but I have no drummer to support on tour. It's why you just learn the songs and he just go on tour. and I was like, all right. So it kind of just fell on my lap, really.

Well, when we did the comeback record, we kind of, it was sort of like a, we'll see what happens sort of thing. Like, we put like Maryland and a couple other things. And, you know, we knew that the lineup was temporary, the recording lineup. And it was going to be myself and Wes, a guitar player that were, you know, more permanent.

But we just didn't know. It was like, you know, we'll see what, we'll do a couple of shows. And then if there's interest or whatever, then we'll maybe, look at doing it further and then you know we just kept getting good offers so like

yeah you want to go out and like do it direction work for Campbell like yeah of course you did Maryland Death Fest with the recording lineup and then after that Danny was busy with internaut so right and he was yeah he was never going to be like yeah you're like we'll just learn the songs and let's just do it so I was like all right this is killer because my roots are in thrash basically and then you know technical death metal after that

obviously so for me it was just kind of like This is, it's fun to play, and it's also, like, right where I started, like, you know, playing, like, thrash, which is thrash and grind. So it's fun and interesting, that's the thing, you know. So it was a different, kind of a totally different vibe, but I was, after jamming with her for a little bit, I was like, all right, this is killer. It's like, it feels like where I should be. Great. It sounds like a hard transition because, yeah, I mean, the style, like, the style is so different. Totally.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know. Mike is a bit of a. He's a bit of a wonder, he's one of those technical drummers who can do all that stuff, but then also can rock.

Just play rock. Just play rock. I think it's really, part of it is musical, but most of it, I think, is just attitude, you know? It is. You know, being in a band,

it becomes about playing for the song. And, you know, if you're there, like, I've got to showcase all these cool techniques that I can do. If the song's not built for that, then it's going to be overkill. And, like, we're very fortunate that Mike is just like, yeah, this is what the song

That was very important to me because I know, you know, I mentioned like Longstead playing with Skinless. I saw one of those shows. I was just like, I never understood why a drummer would just come in and completely try to change the formula of what that band is by trying to showcase what they can do. John, if you listen, we love you, buddy. No, it's not about John. It's just about, like, I want to me, it was important to play what the material was recorded. Or as close to as I can, but also having my style. And I was like, I was good friends with Cole.

And he was like, you know, friends with Matt. I was like, I wanted to keep it true to what, I don't want to come in and just change the sound of the band by throwing a bunch of extra shit in it. Why put the extra work into it? I mean, it's just, like, it was easy fresh. It was actually really funny, though, because when I first started jamming with Mike,

he's like, well, you know, is this feel like the one that they, the one that's on the record? I was like, I don't fucking know, man. It goes at the end of measure four into the next riff. Whatever, it's a fucking drum roll. And he's like, well, you know, people are going to care. I was like, no, no, no. You're not in deeds anymore.

No one's going to care. That drum ball band has never been played the same time by the other drummer. I mean, coming from a musician point of view, like going to shows, I've seen, you know, I've seen all these touring bands that we've watched growing up, and they introduce a new player and they do something different. Like, you know, because I'm a purist, like, motherfucker, that's not on the album. What are you doing? That's not how the song is playing.

So it was important to me to play the material that was the way it was recorded. You know, just for the respect of the band and the fan listening. You know what I mean? So they're like, okay, this guy. guy's coming in, he's not changing. He's just playing what's on the record. So that was important to me to keep it true to that. That's great. Yeah, it's hard to have like you want to play the record, but also

put your own flavor. Yeah, like your, like your bones, your soul into it. Mike's flavor is he plays the songs well. That's the flavor. He's bros. Yeah, if you play the song. Exactly. I kind of felt like I was like, wow, he's giving this band maybe like more respect that we deserve.

I'm not used to this. This is nice. Dude, when you get a sick drummer, it changes the game. I get to tell people I play in a band with a guy from Deeds of Flesh That's so fucking cool That's also just being a young kid With my ambition and my

My shit to prove You know That of course When Matt had asked me to like He was like hey what would you think about Pajami with us more And doing this again And like part of it was I was like

Well I toured with him Because it impaled And Deeds of Flesh had toured Europe And I was like And I knew Mike from back in the barrier I'm like that guy's really nice And we had so much fun on that tour I'm like all right

I'll make a new friend and like that's it that was like but it's been like a total strange person I don't know if I would have been as interested but I was like I really liked Mike as a friend anyway so yeah that would have fun time on that too one was good yeah but it was you are you're good to tour with and

it's so it is it becomes a good unit of friends so that's circling back to that it's what I was happy to join back in full circle I was like all these people that are that are jamming with Matt and Exhumed right now so yeah I'll do that that'll be fun yeah felt right the Bible is good yeah absolutely it's like I'll remarry you guys

Yeah. Pretty much, right. I'm not even hurt before, but I swear I've changed. Restart, we can start our polycule. Well, Matt grew up and changed. Proud of you, man. Hey, you know, I mean, badass. It is actually been a nice, like, jamming with Ross and sort of repairing that friendship.

For me, that's like, it's a little bit of reassurance. Like, okay, you did grow as a person. Like, I'm still basically the same guy, but I'm just not a dick. It's like, all right, cool. When you're young, you have all that angst and you have your vision and nobody's going to steer your vision. That's a hard part. Yeah. You're trying to, you're creative, you're young and you got all this angst and you just want to just create.

You just want to put your stamp on shit. And it's also like, and you're trying to collaborate with other people that are like mind. It's like, it's like, it's hard to make progress doing that. It's a bunch of chiefs. Oh, yeah. I mean, it definitely feels like we've grown up because it's like, yeah, we're just working together now. It's like, there's still all that same fun that was back there in, like high school and into college, but just we don't fight. Yeah.

Like that. And I think the thing is, too, like with the band being more established, like there's less, it feels like, on one hand, there's less at stake because it's like, hey, you know, we're going to be able to go out and tour and do the things that we want to do. So you have, it's not that there's less at stake because, honestly, with the, you know, we need the money that we make and all that shit. But it's, it's less. In question. It's less internal pressure because you're not like, oh, my God, we got it. This is our first record. We got to do good.

We got to do this. It's an existential. moment everything you're doing. Whereas now it's like, hey, we just did our eighth album and we're still going out on tour and people are still turning up to the gigs. So it's a big deal. Yeah, it's like right on. So we can have fun with this

and we can afford to just, you know, we can afford to take on that feedback. Like this is not a good idea. Don't do that. And it's like, okay, cool. Well, we won't. Great. We'll do something else. We had a lot of time to express ourselves and all the other records and stuff that we've done.

So there's a lot of less pressure. Like, okay, well, Oh, that's, you don't think that's working? Fine, I'll ditch it. I don't give a fuck. Right. Yeah, you won't have a full-on fight over like a fucking harmonic or something. That solo. The last three notes in that solo, offend my very being.

Yeah, I mean, totally. You did ask me to Nix some dive bombs on time. I didn't. No, that was, I was gentlemen. They were so good. It's okay. It's funny because I almost quit the band over it. Like, perfect.

Those dive bombs are my soul. This is my heart. come on. There's certain hills to die on. That one is not the one to die on. We got an argument about something. And then later on that night, we're just like, okay, so this is a thing and whatever people hugged it was over.

And the virtual guy's, you know, they're very angry band, but the whole band is, the whole thing is just all angst. And they're like, so did you guys ever like getting fistfights? And I was like, oh, dude, like, I showed our old drummer down the stairs. I threw a fire extinguisher on him. Oh, my goodness. He threw a simple stand at Ross. Like we went to a show and like jump Ross one time.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Well, I mean, to be fair, I got to push. I went back up and then I said, fuck you. And he said, fuck you. And then it just all ended up in a big brawl. Yeah, that was like, damn.

I was like the other side of the band. I was on the other side of remember. But we fought on the streets and me and Cole, like, wrestled on the streets of New York one time, like the first time there. And it was because I, yeah, I said something. I was like, oh, yeah, that's cool. he's lending us pedals and he's like us and that was it that was enough that was enough to start a fight because i said us instead of like you it was so yeah i don't miss that at all

our friends i'm in friends i'm in front of that guy you don't want to spice it up that guy we're doing pretty good with the adulting now we talk about our feelings and we just get it all out that i say okay this is what i meant to say this is what i what i meant by saying this is what we should this is what we should have not said sorry brother it's hard to learn that and it's beautiful it's beautiful. That's how you have to do it because, you know, we can't be, have that tension on the road.

And that affects your live show. And, you know, you can tell the energy of a band if they're friends or not by just how they interact on each. Yeah, 100%. And you can tell, like, this band does not like each other. Or this band, these guys are fucking having fun and they like each other.

It's obvious. Musicians have an arrested development anyways, I think. And then, and then, you know, there's, you know, society's, you're supposed to bear your feelings or whatever because you're a big old tough dude and whatever. So it's like, yeah, we'll get in the fight. But then it's like, all right,

Hey, step aside, let's go have a talk. We're going to have a hug. I like to start them with hugs. It's a good way. It's a good way to really disarm any kind of machismo. It's like, a good hug. Bring it in.

A good hug. Now we can talk. Also, you know, like I'm 47, man. And if I fall down the stairs, you know, shoving match, so I could really, I can really get myself. He goes over.

You're showing. It's a twig on here. So there's a practical side too. I mean, it's like, even with that cold, though, during the fight with him. He lives by my parents now. He comes over and says,

I had a play date with his daughter and my nephew together. Like, all that, all that stuff is temporary. Any kind of stuff like that, you think is going to really just end your life and just,

you're going to be destroyed by horrible feelings. So it's, those times are temporary. Absolutely, man. Yeah, like your feelings for someone will decide, this is a fucking argument.

It's going to pass. Yeah, right. It's a pass. Can't hang on to that shit. You can't, it'll eat you from the inside. Totally.

I learned a lot from, about just letting things go and just forgiving. Yeah. And, like, my wife is, it feels like a weight lifted. It really? It's crazy. It's like, oh, damn, I feel like a new person.

Yeah. It's just important also to have, to voice that, to just talk about it. Because if you just hold it, it's like, that's how it's just there. It's just there. Yeah. And it just builds and just grows. And if you don't fucking talk about it, then by the end of the tour, you're just like, you know. Fuck that guy.

You start doing a bunch of other, like, passive aggressive shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, you just not health. It's not healthy living like that. So you just realize that being in.

rock band is just like being in any other sort of long-term interpersonal dynamic, you know? And maybe that's not like cool or glamorous to say. It's not just about like fucking blowing lines and like picking up chicks or whatever. Which is a myth, by the way.

Hey, I still do Coke. Fuck you, man. I couldn't. But the thing is... I do lines of chicks. I'm not quitting. No, no. I mean... I don't quit her.

My mom didn't raise no quitters. But you're really, Because in the long term, most of your time is not that. And most of your time is just existing with other people. And you've got to fucking find a way to do that. Or you won't get to play music. And that was the whole thing. That's why you started doing this shit.

It's because you wanted to fucking get out and play rock music in front of people. And, you know, be heard. Like, have your shit out there. And you can't do that if you're sitting around making everybody's life difficult or letting everybody else make your life difficult. You've got to find a way to. to just, you know, be fucking humans, man. So, deep thought of the day.

So anyways, our new record's about a bunch of gory shit and people dying and fucking corpses and eating dead bodies. You know, smoking the wrong shows. Smoking human remains and melting your brain and all I could say. Dude, people are jamming their record. I go on Spotify and boom, there it is. Awesome. That's cool.

That's a good response for sure. It was a fun one to make. There you go. It sounds awesome. And, yeah, people are stoked and it has a more, you know, It's a combination of you guys, but still like a modern sound, which is hard, hard to do.

Yeah. It's great. It's great. It's great. I mean, I think the challenge, really, like, the way that I look at it is, like, this is our, those are our eighth album.

That's a lot, man. Because when I think about my favorite bands, I'm like, well, I love the first four, and then, like, the others are okay or so, and this and that. And you're just trying to, like,

trying to create something that needs to be there. Like, you know what I mean? After all this time, after doing this and really, you know, not changing our style too much. Like, how do you, you got to create something that

needs to be there or else you're just sort of like treading water and that's, I don't know if we succeed, but that's the goal every time. So, you know, we're lucky enough to keep, you know, coming back. Well, the story behind this record was it was supposed to be an anniversary record, is that correct? I mean, that was part of it, yeah. Yeah.

And that's why I brought in, like, the ex-members to write songs was, because originally this was going to be on the 30th anniversary of Exume. I mean, it was existing. Well, that was in the middle of the pandemic. So, yeah, Rops was like, we're not putting out this record around this time. And it also was like we wouldn't be able to do like a anniversary

show or whatever. Oh, I bring that up because I want to just let everybody know how it came to be and how the former members like contributed to this record. Yeah. Oh, wow. It's great. Which was really cool. We had four.

Mike Beams, Matt Weiner, Budberg. And, uh, you're like, is this like, I'm going to throw an idea at you. I don't think you're going to like it. And I's like, I fucking love that idea. That's so cool. Like, I really like the, all the material that they brought to the record. And it was like really fun to, to people, having jammed with them a long time ago and then getting to play their material again,

like, you know, but new and for, and it was fun for them, I think, to, like, kind of, I remember Leon saying something about like, well, he's like, and now I've got mowed in for, like, what I would write for Exume as opposed to what I'd be writing for another project. And, like, revisiting that's, like, kind of fun and, you know, some nostalgia for different times that people had spent together on, in the band. And it was really cool to jam all that stuff. I think it also kind of plays into the whole, like, what we're talking about. I've been out of ideas. I've been out of ideas for decades, but no, I think it plays into what we're talking about, about, like, you know, so much of being in a band is about those relationships. And, like, we kind of look at it as, like, the overwhelming majority of people that are played with the band are still, like, good friends of ours, you know.

And it's, like, an extended family kind of vibe. And there's no problem, like, bringing those people back in. And, you know, it's also about getting over that ego and just be like, hey, let's see what this guy can bring to the table. Like, cool, man. I'm like, you heard millions of my wrist for fucking years. Let's try somebody else. It's like, fuck it. And so I think it's just a, it's a, you know, it's a very celebratory record.

I don't know. It's bad for a song too. Yeah. Roads for a song. It's a Nashville song. So it's like a past and present extended family, like, team. It's a cheers. That's great.

It's a big cheers to the dead. That's something to celebrate. You know, still up putting out your eighth record. People are jamming it even more than ever. And then people are still coming up to the shows being still able to do this. Yeah. After like, you know, like the years of doing it and the grind, going through the dark years of a genre. Like that's a very, it's very impressed.

I know you guys got to take off a two. It is two o'clock right now. But I just want to close off real quick. I've been a fan of Exum since I was a kid. Oh. So I remember it was a previous bass player

puked on me. That's a real... If you've been puked on, you're a real fan. That's sick. I was like, I was like, why is everyone not going

into front and the stage? So this is that showcase eater. That's my home venue. Oh, yeah. I live two miles away from there. Okay, yeah. And I thought,

I'm going to see Exhum, cool. I'm like, everyone was like back in out, I'm like, what's the problem? And then sure enough. Oh.

Badass. And then I, so, I mean, Exum has inspired suicide silence Deeds of Flesh has inspired

to us on I mean impaled It was a big band I remember playing showcase Our first few shows We're wearing the appelled shirt I mean to Mad respect

You know we Like the death court scene Wouldn't exist without you guys at all At all That's awesome That's cool man And I have also The pleasant memory of

Impale play cherry action And did you breathe fire That fucking show Yeah Okay again Why is everyone not going front of stage. Literally open my fucking head

on my phone. Unfortunately like with bad ass. They won't let us breathe fire. So we're kind of restricted as well. Well, we'll see how long. Outdoor fest. We'll see how long that's on.

We want to bring that back. Yeah. There's a lot of fun spraying hot oil on the first two or three rows of people and have them all wipe their face. What the fuck just happened? It's that same thing like you're like 15, 16. You're like, what the fuck is this?

Right. It's great. It's just, I mean, I'm 37 now, and it's just ingrained your brain forever. Having an elastic memory is a very rare thing that any artist or bank can do. So the fact that that you guys have done that is pretty fun to special. We were kids and were like, it would be so cool if people did this all the time. We're going to do this dipshit stuff. But yeah, no, it's fun.

It's always nice to hear that people have, like, memories like that from some show. To, like, hit someone personally in a way where it's, you know, we're playing for a crowd. But then I hear from some one years later about, like, oh, this. this one time this thing happened, I'm like, oh, fuck. You're like, I got that show sucked. It was so weird. Like, at least somebody got it. So it was great. Yeah, exactly.

It's nice to hear it. Thank you. And I mean, I think the way I look at it too is, like, I think back when I was a kid and getting into this music and sort of how much that meant to me and sort of, you know, how impactful that was. And when people talk to me about, you know, anything that I've done sort of being part of that same story, that's like, it's pretty fucking neat. It's like, wow, okay, cool, man. You know, like, that's because I know how much much. My story means to me personally to be part of somebody else's story is it's like a pretty fucking big deal man it's cool It is. It is. It's why I kind of give you guys shit of like a gore metal. It's like it's funny you guys are like oh and the record's sound like shit

But to guys like me is it's like that stuff It's why I wouldn't be where I'm at You know it's kind of crazy I have those like memories and that you know talking to you guys about that Kind of checks my own ego It's like you know this song's not so sick but what the fuck do I know what's gonna happen when it leaves that fucking studio? You know it's not yours anymore It's crazy, huh? And that's a beautiful thing about metal. We have our influences, and we've grabbed what they did, like pestilence and carcass and all

them, and then we just did our version of that. Just to see the longevity of death metal, it's never going to go away. It will change here and there. But, you know, it's nice to know that we have our spot in history, and you guys will have your spot in history, and then the bands are to look up to here to suicide sons. They'll take what they learn from you and all the bands before that and just continue this. Just continue. Yeah.

You don't think that you're paying it. forward. You're just like, I just want to play my dumbass riffs. And it's like, oh, shit. There's like a thing to it, right? We're all, we're all paying it forward and it's all, that's what makes the genre so awesome. In 2150, all the AI robots will be writing those killer fucking. On the wasteland while they, while they crush the humans underneath their feet. It's going to be beautiful.

It's like Terminator 2. It's a real life. And they're going to burn all the books with our names in it. We won't even exist in that realm. Robot dicks. Yeah. Well, where can you close it out? Where can people find you guys?

Do you have that link tree? What is that thing? I mean, we're in all the usual places, you know, Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, Exhumed official, official exhumed, whatever. Yeah, Twitter. Whatever we can get on the handle. We're very findable and we've been on the same label of relapse records for 24 years now. So if you can't find us, you can find them and that will, you know, lead you forward.

We also have the darker corners where we have. Right. We have our own web store that we run and print our own shirts and all that shit. Give a name. What's it? I think it's like darker corners on my Shopify.com. Okay. Yeah.

Shop my shop. No, actually, you can just go to darker corners.com, which is the blog, which will lead you to the store. And then you can buy all the things. The things. The stuff. The stuff. The, that's your, the brutal stuff. Yeah.

I mean, you know, hopefully people can find us by, you know, us rolling up to a town relatively near them and just going to a show, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where we want to see you the most at our shows. Come out. Experience the show with us. Fuck, yeah.

Honor to hang with you guys. All right, one. Thanks so much. Cheers. All right. Thank you. Thanks for having us.