Garza Podcast - 65 - Rob Watson | LIONHEART: Limp Bizkit, Hardcore & Working w/ Ice-T

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

Rob Watson is the singer for the American hardcore band Lionheart. https://lionheartca.com SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! TIME CODES 00:00 - Limp Bizkit has a Teleprompter 03:40 - LIONHEART is eight records deep 04:00 - Playing the same riffs over again/Remembering how to play parts, patterns 05:39 - Writing Process 06:26 - How long has Evan been in the band? 08:30 - Lionheart is 20 years strong 10:20 - Two different eras of Lionheart 10:38 - How did Rob and Evan meet? 11:40 - Rob’s an actual hardcore guy/Playing with your favorite band 15:00 - Is hardcore bigger in Europe than in the US? 18:14 - Turning point with LHHC and Welcome to the West Coast 21:14 - Welcome to the West Coast Trilogy 25:10 - Working with Jamey Jasta, Ice T on III 37:00 - Working on the next record/Pushing Yourself 49:00 - Forgetting Breakdown Patterns 50:12 - Garza thought Lionheart was StraightEdge 54:28 - Lyrics 01:06:44 - Lionheart’s Breakup and Reunion 01:16:05 - Playing what you Want to Play 01:17:25 - Cell Phones and Mapquest  

We brought out terror, which was also insane. That's insane. That's insane. Yeah. Terror is big out there. Definitely the greatest West Coast hardcore band of all times. Yeah, oh my God. The shows were nuts, like doing a couple thousand people, 1,000 to 2,000 people in night.

Like, life's big sold out at like 2,000 people. It was like, the fuck is this. Use EMG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. Head over to EMG pickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off. And then once you write the heaviest song of all time, head over to distrokit.com slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms.

And now to the heaviest podcast of all time. So apparently now you need a teleprompter. I would love a teleprompter. Yeah. When did this come up? Yes. You're on your age record. I mean, what a point did that switch?

We were in Austria. Austria. You played Nova Rock. It was welcome. And same day as Limp Biscuit. That's sick. One of the greatest bands of all time. I came in here hot today, literally just unprompted talking about Limp Biscuit.

Love Limp Biscuit. Can't get enough of them. So we're stoked. Same day. Same day as them. We got to watch it from the stage because we know some folks in their crew. And so I'm like geeking out watching West Borland. I'm having that time of my life, you know?

and Freddie D I see him up there he's got this little I've never seen it before probably because we don't play like real shows often enough I don't know I think this is what most professionals have these days but it's like a little

like TV screen at the top of the stage and it looked like like if I think if you were looking at it from the crowd it would look like it would look like a monitor looks like a monitor yeah but instead of like the speakers it's just a screen and it has all

his lyrics just scrolling, like, right in front of him. And I was like, this is like God-level shit, you know? This is God-level. And it's crazy because when we, like, we just had a new album come out and we've been playing new songs for a couple tours. And I'm, I don't know. I'm not going to remember this shit. So I write it down, like, on piece of paper.

Like, I'll write, like, entry words for each verse, you know? Because once I hit the first word, I'm good. Chain Lincoln. Yeah, yeah. Then I'm rocking. So I have, like, my little pieces of paper and I write down, like, entry words for each verse and I'll sit by like the drum riser and I'll run over if I need it all the

time. Are you serious? Like dude yeah because I don't know it's sometimes you're you just like forget you know like I feel like half the time when I'm going into a verse I don't know the verse until right right that moment. It's like a muscle memory thing it's like right when you're about to sing it it clicks

and then you're rocking you know but now I'm like watching you know biscuit from the stage and I'm like man what an asshole I am like I'm sitting here writing shit down like an idiot when I could have this like baller ass screen that's like this awesome teleprompter but I thought it was sick

that must be pretty sick of like he just had the lyrics were right fucking there dude dude yeah and I'm like also like who is I wonder if he has like a teleprompter guy like some dude who like this is his job he's got the teleprompter in a little road case like he sets it up I've seen it happen I've seen someone like they sit by like the monitor world and they're just dude yeah and he had the little timer too

like a little box like a timer like timing on a set and to the song. Everything was to the T. Sick. It was sick, yeah. And, you know, so yeah, we got Rob Watson, singer of Lionheart. Dude, thank you for being here.

Dude, it's awesome. Well, yeah, we're talking about we're eight records deep. So, I mean... Yeah, I don't know how many we are. Probably eight. Honestly, I don't... Yeah, probably eight. Six, seven, eight, something like that.

It just kind of slipped your mind after like four or five. It does. Totally. We have some time, too. We're like kind of going on, like, ugh. I think about that because normally I like as the singer I like to pretend like my job is the hardest it just feels like a comfortable space for me to be in giving somebody else shit that my job is harder of course classic singer yeah totally I mean yeah it's it's nice space to be in but I do think about that because I'm like god damn like each song okay you have four riffs a song you know three four or five riffs a song whatever if you got your intro over chorus, you got some other part, you got a breakdown, yada, yada, yada.

But at some, so it's not a lot to manage, but at some point they got to all start kind of sounding the same. Like, how many breakdowns can you remember? Mm-hmm. The, I find the biggest issue right now, I'm 37, the big issue right now is writing new stuff and remembering those breakdowns. I think writing breakdowns is the hardest part about, like, writing music. I think it is too.

When we write, like, we'll, because it's mainly myself and one of the other dudes, Evan, and we write everything. And we'll bang through, like, intro, verse, chorus, verse, like, we'll rock that in 30 minutes, you know? Oh, wow. Easy. Like, for some reason, that stuff always clicks for us. And then we get to the end of the song and we're like, fuck, like, how are we going to do this? Like, you got to have a breakdown. And it's like, all right, how do you do it?

Because we've written every one. So, like, okay, which one are we doing now that we're going to try to. like put some type of costume on so it doesn't feel like the same one but it's hard it's hard do you find like the uh like the pattern comes to you when you're like you're either walking around you're driving and you come up to that stupid simple pattern that you can't sit down to write is this kind of comes to you yeah totally but i like we wrote a lot of because evan and i have never have for most of our albums haven't lived close enough to be able to write them in person so we started doing this like postal service thing where I voice note all the riffs that I want and then I send

them to Evan and he like makes them not sound like an idiot voice noting into his iPhone you know and so that's like how we've written almost everything or he'll write something and I'll voice note some stuff back like oh instead of whatever you know you kind of voice note or whatever and so that's like how we've done most of our stuff how long has Evan been in the band he he 2010, I think he joined during Built on Struggle and which was like our second full length. That's when he joined

toured with us for a few years like through that album cycle and the next album cycle. And then Lionheart is kind of like, I feel like there's two eras to the band. There's pre-Welcome to the West Coast and then there's welcome to the West Coast and everything after. Like during that in between before we came out with the first

Welcome West Coast album We took a couple years And everybody started working And like we weren't really touring And we were just kind of hanging We weren't sure if we were going to do the band anymore Or any of that stuff And so

A lot of the folks kind of hopped off the touring train And that's when we became like a part-time band So Evan has no longer tours with us He doesn't go out and play shows Even as a part-timer But he still writes every album with me Sick Yeah so it's just he and I that

Have written everything since then Yeah you're talking over 10 years. Yeah, totally. So, so you did the same process before Evan. You just wrote

breakdowns and voice notes. Yeah, like, yeah, it really started with Built on Struggle when he joined. The first album we ever did The Will Survive, we wrote like as a band,

like in our guitarist's garage, like arguing over who has this rip. And then you get to like, I feel like the songs end up being like a buffet of everybody's, ideas you know it's like you got to let somebody have their fucking part he wants his riff

this guy wants that and all of a sudden like the song doesn't make sense you know you're like horse trading all these different like parts of the song it's like whack you know yeah so it just felt easier to have less cooks in the kitchen you know it does work out that way sometimes when it's like one or two people kind of works out that way you know and uh very warning I'm trying to make you feel old but I mean, you almost been in Lionheart for, you're going on 20 years.

Dude is wild. Yeah, like, we started basically when I was like 18 and I'm 36 now. So. Damn, 2004. Yeah, 2004. It's crazy. It's crazy, huh? It's absurd, dude.

Yeah. Yeah, we recently hit 20. It's so weird. It's so weird because it doesn't feel like it. It doesn't. But that's what old people say. Oh, no. This is the conversation.

Shut up. It's not. It's not happening. It's not happening right now. It's been 20 years. This isn't happening right now. Yeah, and then younger people are like, yeah, it looks like it's been 20 years. You don't look the same.

I can't tell you. I don't know if it's like a European thing or what, but I feel like every time I'm at the merch table now, somebody is like, oh, you were bigger. Everybody said, oh, you were bigger in the liffer video or, oh, you used to be buff. Why aren't you buff anymore? Or you look different. Take your shirt off. It's like insane, you know? And it's like, dude, I'm fucking 36.

I'm like tired. I should be asleep right now. What are you talking about? Yeah, dude, we were like, we're not 18 anymore. Dude. Especially doing the kind of music that we're doing. Yeah, and we're a little bit more tired. Yeah, very tired.

Especially when we eat Thai ramen, it's not a good idea anymore. It's not great. No, I'm like 10 monsters deep into the day. I'm like, dude, I know I don't look the same, bro. Dude, I stopped eating Thai ramen two weeks ago and I feel amazing. And that's, we're going to continue this older conversation. Yeah, I need to. I haven't had it in a while.

Good, don't. Yeah. I learned. Like it wouldn't work. from me. Back in a day being 18 playing breakdowns it's it worked but now it doesn't. Yeah. But yeah it's crazy. It's been so... Take your shirt

off. It's crazy. It's been so long, dude. Like it's, yeah, it's been a wild ride. But yeah, it really is like there, I feel like there are two like two eras or two versions of Lionheart, you know? Like the pre-Walking on West Coast was just a different sound. It was a different band like

I was trying to be something so different, you know? Yeah. And then we kind of took a break and we're like, I fuck it, like, wrote what we wrote and the rest is history. Like everything kind of took off for us after that. It sounded like you and Evan really connected musically. How do you guys meet? That's a good question.

Actually, I don't even remember. I think our, one of our guitar players at the time, Rob, he also played drums for hoods back in the day. And I think Evan also played guitar for hoods for a minute. A lot of people played in hoods, so this isn't narrowing it down or anything. But yeah, Rob played in hoods. Evan played in hoods.

I think they played in hoods together. So that's kind of how it worked out. Actually, our bass player used to sing for hoods. Are we hoods? Wait, wait, am I talking to someone from hoods right now? But yes, now that I'm thinking about it, yeah, we've had a lot of people shared with hoods. Interesting.

Yeah, because they're a Sacramento band. Yeah. And how far was... Yeah, Evans from Sack. Rob's from Sack. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. It makes sense.

Current bass players from Sacramento. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, you're, like... You're actual hardcore guy. Like, you're talking like blood, blood for blood, strife, hoods. Yeah, yeah. Hate breed.

I got blood for blood on my arm, spit my last breath. Oh, shit. That's your favorite record, huh? That's my all-time favorite band, like, favorite everything. Dang. It's like, yeah, I thought they were incredible. So, we got, like, you know, We toured it them once, and it was like the coolest moment in my whole entire life.

How insane is that when you're just like 18 and top rom and playing breakdowns on a tape recorder? Then you finally get to a fucking, dude, play with one of your favorite bands. It was wild. I mean, it was only, it was actually on the West Coast. We only did a few shows. It was kind of when they first came back, I don't know, 2010, 11, 12, something like that. I can't remember. It was in that era, but it was Billy Biohazard was playing guitar for them.

for Blood for Blood as well. It was wild. And I think it was Blood for Blood, Wisdom and Chains and Us. And we just did like a little West Coast thing. Like I think Phoenix or Mesa or something, we played Glass House in Pomona. Sick. Metro and Oakland. Like it was like literally three or four shows.

So but it was sick just to be like, holy shit. I see AdMat with like us and Blood for Blood. Like check the box. I'm done. You know? Dude, the ad man is like, well, yeah, I think we're going to break up. You know. But it's crazy

It's a fucking trip man Yeah And you see the ad man And then It's a trip when you When you're done And then you just get to watch them Totally dude

Yeah I couldn't believe it Wow I gotta pay to be in here Yeah dude Had a lot of those I'm sure you guys have had a lot of those moments too You've toured with everybody you can tour with you know Yeah Yeah we're talking earlier about you know

You guys You know playing with a limp biscuit You know it's nuts It's the coolest thing in the whole world Like that's the benefit of being in the band and getting it to the level that it's at. I mean, it's by no means, like, you know, we're on this gigantic stage or anything,

but we've gotten to the place where we are lucky enough to get to play with bands that you grow up listening to and idolizing and admiring and all these different stuff. And then you're like, you're clear across the world too. Dude, it's awesome. I'm in Austria. I don't watch you, Limp Bizkit. I mean, even after the set, like, we, like, because we knew some folks on the cruise,

so we got to hang out with them. And, like, Wes is hanging out. I ended up walking, like, we were all just standing outside of the bus talking. I don't even remember about what, but West wanted to go see Billy Idol, because Billy Idol was playing that show, too. And so it was like, me, Wes, one of the other guys from our band, and we just walked over, watched Billy Idol laugh because it was not great, then came back.

But it was like, what a weird experience. Like, 14-year-old me would never think that, like, one night I would be in Austria hanging out with fucking West Borland watching Billy Idol. Like, it's insane, you know? Like, I'm just in a hardcore band. So it's crazy, like, that type of shit you get to do, you know? Yeah. Especially, like, being in what, I mean, you're in a hardcore band.

Like, Lionheart is, like, straight up, like, a hardcore band. And they're able to get to that level, you know, and I was looking at the routing of things you, your band has been doing out and more so like the European area, how you guys are massive out there. Do this wild. I'll say it. And then I'm like, why is like, is hardcore bigger out in Europe? Like, what is, what is, what is that?

This is like the bazillion dollar question. I don't understand it for, I can really only speak for, I think different types of hardcore are bigger out there than they it's almost like reversed because there's a lot of bands here that are also hardcore bands but same as metal there's like all these different subgenres yeah but they're nowhere near as big in europe as they would be here you know here they're gigantic europe 50 people are coming to see them 100 people come so whatever so it's so bizarre i think for lionheart though like especially when we got to this point where like pre-woken west coast we're like let's just be a part-time band like we're not gonna

what are we gonna do this for like we can't do this forever we all have other stuff we want to do so let's do the part-time thing and i think we i don't even think it was ever vocalized or like even super conscious but we made somewhat of a semi-conscious choice i guess to if we're gonna play shows if we're gonna take time away from home let's go do it in europe like i don't need to go to like I don't know Cleveland again I mean it's like a cool city for sure I actually great city

but I'm not like oh man I fucking gotta get there not really you know but if you can go to Europe on a free vacation I'm like fuck yeah you know what I mean so as a part time band it's like all right cool let's do some cool shit when we can if we can get to

an interesting place overseas and it's free then that's where we'll spend our two three, four, five weeks a year that we can dedicate to this. So it's like go to Japan every couple years, go to Europe twice a year. And that's kind of how we did it and it eventually took off. You know, like we toured there for a long time, obviously not doing well. And now we do what I think is very well in Europe.

And so it's been like a huge blessing. Honestly, it's awesome. Like the last tour we did, we brought out terror, which was also insane. That's insane. That's insane. Yeah. That's crazy. What the fuck?

Because terror is big out there. I mean, dude, they're like, it's terror. I don't know how you describe them other than saying it's terror, you know? It's one of the greatest hardcore band, definitely the greatest West Coast hardcore band of all time. Absolutely. Not even a question. Like, you would be a psychopath to even argue it, you know? Very true.

And to be like, okay, working the headline over terror, like, that's absurd. It's a mind fuck. But anyway, a really cool experience. Yeah, oh, my God. The shows were nuts, like doing a couple thousand people, a thousand to two thousand people a night. Like, life's a thing sold out at like, 2,000 people was like, the fuck is this? Yeah. It makes no sense, you know?

But it's awesome. It's the coolest place in the world. We love it there now. We love the people out there. It's, I look forward to it all year long to get to go back. That's cool. I mean, it's, I'm so lucky. That's the only way I can describe it.

It's just very humbling, very, very cool. I mean, yes, you're on your eighth record. I mean, what point did that switch started to happen out there in Europe, like Sixth Record or... It was Welcome to the West Coast. That was when... Oh, it was quick.

Yeah, it was like that... So, 2014. Oh, wow. And it was just an EP. It was like four songs, five songs. I don't know. It was like a couple songs, whatever it was.

And the main song on it, LHC, I think it was the last song on the album. And it was funny because when we wrote that song, song, I never thought we would play it outside of the bay ever. There was no intention to ever play it. I thought it would be a ridiculous concept to even think about playing it outside of the bay because it's just a song about Northern California.

Yeah. That's it. And it's like, I don't think I'm blowing any minds with the lyrics on the song either. Like it's, I don't know if it's my, I don't think it's my best work. It's just straight up, this is where we're from, we love it, and this is a song for those people that had been coming out and seeing us for at that time 10 years like that was it um and that was the intent of it when we went on that first tour in europe after that album came out we hadn't even practiced that song we weren't going to play it because i was like why would i

play a song about northern california in like the netherlands like why would they care you know makes no sense on paper makes no sense we didn't practice it no one knew how to play it i probably didn't even know the lyrics like knowing me and then we played the first couple shows on the tour and Everybody would come to merch and ask why we're not playing this song, you know? So we're like, fuck it. We tested it out one night, didn't practice it, just started playing it. And it was insane. Everybody's singing the lyrics.

Like, it just makes me smile thinking about it now because it's so crazy. Like I never ever, for a bazillion dollars would have guessed that anybody would ever give a fuck, you know? And that turned into, like that song alone took the band to all sorts of new levels. So it's crazy. even there's no nothing from you or the rest of the band hey this is we should probably play the song like it was just no I mean half the band

didn't even I don't even think liked the song like that's so crazy when that happens yeah yeah like most people thought it was it it was like dumb like why would you sing a song about Northern California you know

it shouldn't work it shouldn't work no it shouldn't but honestly too it's like I was a big wisdom and chains fan and they had a song called Land of Kings which was basically just about Pennsylvania and I thought that was sick and I was like that's cool

like we should do something like that for Norco you know like this this is where we're from these are our people yeah they've been showing up to shows for 10 years like we suck let's say thanks you know like yeah and it was just supposed to be like a dumb last song on like a little

EP and it was crazy and it became this big draw in a different country into a trilogy your records. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds, I mean, the best things kind of come from accidents.

Totally. We get a lot of shit for the, like, the trilogy, like, doing the Welcome West Coast 2, Welcome West Coast 2. Welcome West Coast 3. I thought it was sick because I, like, I don't even listen. Yeah, and like, I don't listen to a lot of heavy music, to be honest. I listen to a lot of rap. And I feel like all my favorite mixtapes were always, like, sequels or, or

or trilogies or whatever. You know, like, when they have a sound, they'll put out the first mixtape, it'll be called whatever it is. Then they do another couple albums. And when they, like, return to that sound, they hit him with, like, a volume two or something or a follow-up.

And I always thought that was, like, such a sick way to do it. Yeah. And I hadn't seen it done in, like, heavy music that much. So I just wanted to kind of look at it, kind of like as a mixtape, you know, and I thought it was cool, but, yeah, we get a lot of shit for it. That's interesting because I thought it was a cool idea.

and from what you're saying I think it's even more cool idea because it seemed like it wasn't planned at all. Oh, no. Because right when I did the digging into Lionheart, they have a trilogy of records.

Interesting. But then once I started doing some more digging and listening, I was like, oh, this wasn't planned, it seems. Dude, absolutely not. And even when we did the second one, I was like, there's no way I would,

like we made jokes about doing a third, you know? Oh, my goodness. There's no way we would ever do that. Like, how ridiculous, you know? And then when we were writing this album, like Evan and I were writing this album, I called him. And I was like, dude, you're going to want to kill me. But hear me out.

Like, what if it was Welcome to West Coast three? And he was like, dude, what the fuck are you talking about, you know? But I don't know. Like the vibe made sense to me. We're in that same mind frame. We're writing the music sounded similar. Like, I had the same vibe, had the same groove, had the same, like, lyrical content

and fuck it let's cap it off let's do a trilogy I love it so yeah I gotta figure something else out but I can't you can't really do four

that doesn't make any sense you know people love trilogies and you can't go past a trilogy you can't then it's weird yeah yeah

it's okay okay yeah a trilogy feels purposeful you know because you can call it a trilogy yeah that's dope when you do four like what is it

the quadruplee or something like what is that if it's not rocky I mean it's tough too yeah then you're just like lazy you know yeah so then now

now number really old. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Rob's out of ideas for sure. Yeah, definitely. So now I need a new one. I don't know what's going to be, though. And that, I mean, the records came out December 9th.

And yeah, you guys, I mean, almost two months. Yeah. How's it been going? Dude, it was great. I mean, it, um, enumer one on the iTunes charts the first day, like, nice. Yeah, I mean, the first week. Yeah.

So it was awesome. Like, that's always really cool to see. And it's funny, too, because, uh, Valley of Death, the one before it hit number two, and Welcome West Coast 2 hit number two, and Welcome West Coast 1 was number

one, so it was awesome to see it, like, come back, you know? It's been bothering me the last couple records, you know? Really? So it was super, I mean, dude, like anytime you see something, like, it's not like I got gold records or something, but it doesn't matter. Like, you see any type of charting or any type

of anything, and you're like, holy shit. At this moment in time, like, this is the number one metal album like that's crazy so nuts yeah just i mean what more can you ask for you know it's just again like a humbling experience no doubt especially like given that yeah we're still just a hardcore band you know it's not even like we're trying to like do anything extra so it's cool it's really cool but we got lucky we had some cool guests like it was just a it was a nuts like set up you know yeah did you guys talk about that before that okay Okay, we're going to ask, you know, shout out to Jimmy Jobs, the hate breed.

Oh, no, let's ask iced tea. You know, how do those conversations start? I mean, part of it was, like, I wanted to treat these more like a mixtape, you know? And, okay, let me, like, when I look at these, and, like, I think Lionheart is in a different position where it's not our career. It's not how we make money. Like, we're free to fail. It really, I think the pressure. that exists for professional bands,

it's very difficult to write a record when the record pays for your bills and pays for it. It can be different. You have different pressures, different stuff going on, and you have to think about that when you're making certain decisions. For us,

we don't have that weight, you know? And so it's like, you know what, fuck it. I want to do this exactly how I want to do it. If other people don't like it, that's chill. It doesn't like fuck up my life, you know?

And so when we're doing Welcome to the West Coast three, it was like, I want to attack this like another mixtape. I want to have my friend, on it. I want to have people that like, I respect, people that I like, people that'll hype the song up. Like, that's fun to me. You know, and when we first started talking about it, of course, people are like, oh, like the label is like, oh, that's too many guests. Like, it looks like you're trying too hard. Or, oh, you can't have this. Or, oh, like, you should just have one

and make it a big deal. And it's like, dude, I don't care. Like, all these people are cool. I'm putting them all on. If I could have a guest on every song, I would do it. I don't care, you know? And I was living temporarily on the East Coast, this is how the stuff with Jasta happened. I was living in the New York area for about a year, this last year,

and just moved back. But I was living out there for like a year, and I was going to do the record, actually, Jesse from Six Year Guns, was going to produce the record. Oh.

Because I was still in San Clemente, and he's just, you know, I see he's in L.A. now, but we had worked with him before and, like, he was going to do the record. But then I ended up moving out east, and I was like, fuck I'm like not that far from Jamie

like I'll just hit up Jamie you know because he put out our first record The Will of Survive on Stillborn yeah and so literally just like hit him up on Instagram nice yeah classic and uh uh

yeah hit him up on Instagram and I was like dude what's up like yada yada yada and he was into it right away so that was chill just booked time with him to like produce it he has a little studio up in Connecticut um with some really good people and so it was an awesome experience he was really fun to work with really really cool uh really just helped with like vocal flow and lyrics and that type of stuff um first time i've ever worked with

anybody um ever like had a real producer like weird experience are you you serious yeah that's the first time we've ever worked with anybody ever on her eighth record yeah dude because i'm like a i don't i don't want anybody's opinion about anything ever. And so that's why it's like just been me and Evan for, you know, over a decade now. Because it's like he and I both know exactly how the other person is going to write. We know exactly what, like, we literally think the same all the time. There's few stuff here and there.

Like he would rather have like a longer song than I would rather. Like stupid shit like that. But we write the same. So this was the first time that I was like, okay, like let's let somebody else in. And he didn't help with him. Evan and I still do the music, but as far as like lyrics and like vocal flows and vocal melodies and things like that, he was actually really helpful because like he, I mean, you can listen to Lionheart and hear the hate breed worship for sure, you know? Um, but he and I sing so differently. Like he, there's something simple like he comes in on the one all the time. If you listen to a lot of hate breed stuff, I, you can't. I can't find a Lionheart song where I've ever come in on one.

I either come in on the four or the two. Because all I listen to is rap. So, like, I would never start on the, it cracks me up even thinking about it, but, like, I would never start singing, like, right on the beat. It's just bizarre to me. I like to have a little flow to it, you know? And so, but he's, like, the master of that, like, caveman. Oh, yeah.

Like, totally just basic, almost like remedial rhythms, you know? And it's so catchy. And that's like part of the reason why Hapri does so well

and they span across so many different genres. I feel like the Kings of Festivals because it is so like caveman so obvious. But there's, it's a lot more difficult to actually write like that than I think people think. And so he helped out a lot

with a lot of the choruses especially. So I feel like I'm like a verse guy. Like I got the flow. I can do all that stuff. Courses are really hard for me because I'm always trying to do too much. Yeah. And he was able to be like, sit down, calm down. You don't have to go 100 in your court.

Like no one's going to be able to sing it back, you know? It's too much. Chill out. And so he was super helpful with that. Really, really helpful with that. And you can hear it in a lot of the courses like coming in on the one where I never would do it ever before. And it was funny because when I first started trying to sing that way, it took like a whole day because my body physically like I could not come in on the one. Like I just wouldn't let me, you know?

It's like there wasn't enough like juice to it, you know? And so it took me a little bit, but it was awesome and he did. I think the album is great. And he was all about having the extra. like guest vocals like you know he did the ice pick album all this sort of shit so he gets it he knows what i'm trying to do which was awesome and i think it was fun for him too but yeah i mean uh we had alics from malevolence and we've toured it from malevolence forever since they were a lot younger and they're popping off right now it's a beautiful thing beautiful thing to see um and very deserving of it

i mean they're incredibly talented so um Alex hopped on that was sick we had aunt from E-Town Concrete, which is one of my other favorite bands of all time. And so having him on the record was insane. Like, dude. Like, come on. Just the coolest shit in the world. For me, like, it's the coolest shit in the world, you know? Yeah.

Who else we have iced tea? Which, like, what can you say about that, you know? How did those conversations start? Dude, insane. So, Will Putney. I'm sure you have heard of Will Putney. Shut up. Yeah.

A little sick. Exactly. He did the mixing and mastering, and he obviously does all the body count stuff. Yeah. And like all the iced tea shit. Actually, the same show that we played with Biscuit on, we played with Body Count too.

So, like, that was the first time I met ICT, hung out with him. He watched our set, like, super, like, literally, the nicest guy on the planet. He's like hanging out at catering. He's chilling. I mean, it's just like wild, you know? He's like, he's just a dude being a bro.

He's there to hang out. He's like a nice guy. It's incredible. And so we had like the baseline relationship. He knew who we were. We knew who he, you know what I mean? And so Will kind of brokered that. Then we have Jasta, who's done a ton of stuff with ice and body count too.

Like ice was on the ice pick, real, recognized real song from back in the day that Jostah did. So we had all, like, we were just connected within the crew, you know? And so within our little group. And so, yeah, that was a great experience. He killed the track, too, and just the coolest dude, like, didn't charge us anything. Like, it was crazy. He's just the, like, he's a real one. He is a real one.

That's rare, dude. Dude, he's a real one. Straight up. It explains a lot. You never hear anything negative by Ice T. It's always, like, people always, like, dude, he's like, the shit. Yeah, he's a real one. Yeah, he's a real one. Totally.

It makes sense. Yeah, you can't fake your reputation. dude. No, fuck no. You can't. It's just like crazy experience, you know? And then Jocelyn was on the record, obviously. And he actually ended up being on two songs because one...

One wasn't enough, dude. Well, it was funny because he... Yeah, the first song he was supposed to be on, for sure, we shot a video for it. It's called Death Comes in Three. It's cool. He killed it. There's another one on there. And he was trying to get me to do

something that my vocals were just not capable. of doing on the chorus. Like, I think he was kind of trying to get me to sing or something. I don't know what he was. It was, like, not going to work for me, you know? Yeah.

I don't, maybe he was just fucking with me, honestly. I have no idea. But anyway, we needed somebody to, like, lay, like, a test track on the chorus, you know? Mm-hmm. To see what it sounds like, because I was sounding terrible, you know? We're like, okay, maybe we'll get a different guest or something. Like, but you lay down, tell me what you're thinking, because, like, I'm not even understanding of this.

He laid it down, and it sounded pretty sick. course. It's not gonna not sound sick. Yeah, and then it's like Jasta on a chorus. Yeah, it sounds hard, obviously, you know? And so then like time goes on and the song's just sitting with everybody

and at that point it's like, he's already on it. Like, you want to be on two songs? He was like, that's kind of weird and I'm like, it is kind of weird but you want to do it anyway. Can we just like, fuck it.

So. Can we just save this file? It's all right? Yeah, so, yeah. He basically just like went in and like, doubled up on it again and yeah it sounds nuts you know so um who else is on that album i don't know a lot of people it's cool it's crazy it sounds like you guys just like this has had fun you know

awesome i got like everybody on the album that like i listen to and that i love and that i respect and that like i admire you know what else you can't really ask much more than that you know no you literally can't it's like again like what a humbling really cool, really wild experience. And we have actually Lowe's from a band called Des Madre, which is from L.A. I don't know if you've heard of them, but in my opinion,

the, if not one of the best up-and-coming hardcore bands, certainly from the West Coast, but just in general. And he killed the track. We did a shot of video with him. Yeah, he's incredible. But yeah, the band's called Des Madre, so shout out Lowe's, Chuckie, Desmodre, everybody. They're incredible from right in L.A. Great.

Yeah. Well, actually, thanks to you. I mean, I was like, I hear Rob loves blood for bloods life. So, like, for the first time in my life today, I went when I Spotify and listened to that, the first two songs off that record. So thanks to thanks to you, we have new bands to listen to. Love it. It's badass. Love it.

And also, just for the record, Rob was also the first person just to walk in hot. It's true. Yeah, I think you texted me and you're like, let me know when you're close. I'll come out and get you. And I was like, I'm just going to walk in. I already got the invite, so I'm just going to walk in. I love it.

I figured this thing out. Yeah. It was a pleasant surprise. I'm okay, this is the way it should be. Yeah. It's save me a walk. You give me the address and the time. I'm there.

Dude. Fuck, yeah, dude. And also, it was really hard to get our schedules to line up. So I'm stoked that we finally got to going. So you. okay I'm kind of stuck on this you have eight records you never got them produced now

when you have the knowledge like how are you going to approach like the next one I think the I mean I would run it back with with Jasta for sure like that was a ton of fun you know it's hard because

it was such a weird experience because it was the first time that I shared my lyrics ahead of time with somebody you know And like, I don't care who you are, but most lyrics look pretty dumb on paper. Really? I think lyrics look dumb on paper.

It makes sense in the context of the song. And you're like, oh, that's hard. Oh, that makes it. Yeah, yeah. But when you're writing it down, like, it just feels juvenile. And so I felt funny about, like, showing him my lyrics in advance, you know? And it is funny because, you know, I'm like, I'm working on them. I'm doing my best.

I'm like, man, this song, fucking, I'm killing it, you know? I get to the studio show him the lyrics I'm like I'm ready to get in I'm ready to get in the booth let's go and he's like this is not good like it happened multiple times

he was like I no you need to like rewrite another song literally happened multiple times he was like all of this has been said by like 100 other bands write another song how does you feel about that

I mean he's right you know like it there is you know and so it is easy to go to you know get lazy in some in some parts you know but um and so i think i'm really proud of how the lyrics and everything turned out on this album like there's a lot of awesome storytelling there's a lot of stuff that i try differently for the first time it's great it's all really cool and so yeah but it is funny

he um yeah he's pretty serious about about that stuff so yeah i think uh we all need we want to get get pushed yeah totally so yeah it's kind of sucks yeah and it it i think that was like the most fun part of it, most challenging part I guess, but like definitely the most fun part, you know. But it was really exciting, like, just getting to work with somebody that like invented your sport basically, you know? So. Yeah, it's such a trip because there is that, that history. Totally, dude.

You know, we're like, wow. Like, we're like working together and you're saying my song sucks. Dude, yeah. I mean, even that's cool. I'm like, yeah, cool. Okay. Fuck it. But, I mean, like, Lionheart wouldn't exist without hate breed, obviously, you know?

Totally. there's not even close Hapri's is one of those bands that like definitely transcendent and influenced a lot of style of bands to bands like Lionheart to bands like Suiza sounds it's just like like the scale of genres

it's pretty wide It's crazy you know I think the first band show I ever saw was a Hapry shirt I was like in seventh grade and I got Satisfaction Oh wow that fucking record dude I love I'm insane

I am obsessed with that record. I still listen to it all the time. That one and honestly, the, what's it? Rise of brutality. For some reason, I love that record. Interesting. I don't think that's like most people's favorites.

I love it. I think that record's like perfect. I'm surprised you're like. Domsayer and all that shit. I think that record's awesome. Because it's kind of like, it has some really cool like metal riffs and really cool metal parts, you know?

but it's still hard. Like the beholder of justice, like all, I think that, that, that, that, that,

that, that, that, that, the, uh, obviously, um, satisfaction for sure.

Perseverance was not my faith. Really? I feel like that's everybody's answer. Not, not mine. I love satisfaction. Perseverance is like, obviously great record.

I mean, Mm-hmm. Of course. You know what I mean? It's still like, yeah, still like, yeah,

I love, I love rise brutality, loved, the supremacy was like insane and the self-titled one after that oh yeah sick yeah that was like another like perfect I thought that was it had a few songs that like I probably skip over like they weren't like softer

but if you were they were kind of trying to do like almost like a radio thing that it wasn't my vibe yeah but for the most part like that album's insane too like that Born to Bleed song was on it and stuff like I thought all that shit was great that is something about Our, like, chosen genres that, like, they, like, we kind of get, we kind of get our strive, like, in our seventh, eighth record. It's so weird. That's so strange. Yeah.

I know. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we talk about it periodically. I can't wait until we write, like, the next one, because bands like us, we get better. Yeah, totally. It's so weird. Well, you guys had that period, too, where you were changing it up. Oh, yeah.

I was living in Venice Beach And when that record came out We went broke Yeah It was fucking nuts Yeah That was a rough It was a rough time man

That was I could imagine it would have been But I thought that was sick dude Like Yeah you know You know it is You're just doing what you want But that's the

That's what it is to be in a band It's supposed to be that way It's supposed to be no rules You know? Yeah If there's rules then like How is that metal Totally

You know Like, yeah. Then it's just paint by numbers, you know? Yeah, and I think if you go towards your music that way, I think that is short term, not good, but it's all about longevity, though. Yeah, and you guys are still killing it. You just did the Never Say Die. How was that, by the way? It was good.

It was good, yeah. So, you know, I guess I think. Who was on that one? It's a band called Currence, which are doing very well. Okay. Currents is... Oh, was spite on yours, too? Spite was great, yeah

They're so sick They're fucking sick They're a bay Area man Yeah, we played I mean dude They've been around forever It doesn't feel like it

Because they're Like just getting huge now But they've been around for a really long time They used to play all of our like local shows Really? I'm pretty sure they played the album release For Welcome to the West Coast Really?

Yes Oh my goodness Yeah That would be actually perfect You guys took out to Europe I think they're awesome Yeah They're incredible

they're like heavy but they're like up and coming it's always nice being in like the outside and seeing like another band do it totally and like Cody who was their drummer for a long time and now he owns that Rapture Studios like he's producing a lot of bands and stuff he did he did welcome West Coast too

did he oh maybe not no he did love don't live here yeah yeah he's done a bunch of stuff for us I wasn't planning to ask this what's I don't know the name of the studio but it's a famous Oakland Castle Ultimate Yeah

You already knew what I was gonna say We did welcome the West Coast there Oh, it makes a lot of sense Yeah Yeah Everything that if you went there You knew it was gonna sound good There was like a period of time when

If you didn't go there Something was wrong with you Like you just didn't know What was up or something But yeah first blood did California there Like everybody did It's the same building as

There's another studio in there It's not Castle Ultimate but there's another studio, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, but Castle moved a couple times unless I'm totally losing it. But there's another studio kind of right there that's like fancy, fancy, like Green Day recorded there and a bunch of people like that too. Yeah. I get the same building, like crazy shit.

I don't know if Castle's still around, though. Yeah, there was a period where it's just putting out sick shit. I mean... I think animosity did their shit there. Everybody did. All show parish. All show Parish definitely did. Yeah, son is fucking sick.

Yeah. That's, yeah, Altsho Perish definitely did. Who was producing or engineering there? What was? Zach Owen. Zach. Yes. Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, I can't remember my own lyrics, but I remember Zach Oren produced that Castle Ultimate in like 2005. I don't know why I remember something like that. Yeah, well, names like that just kind of are ingrained in your brain, you know, especially what you associate him with, like,

records. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Was he, would you call him a, engineer I think so yeah like he was behind the board you know

yeah funny concept I haven't recorded an album like that since then really nah fuck no I mean also we don't have that kind of money

fuck no yeah we don't got that kind of the the labels aren't asking us to go spend 20 30 40 50k on a record I can promise you that yeah

do you guys need your time or do you can you like do you need longer or two weeks or what's like what's like your time frame you found it kind of takes a long time because like even when i look back at woken west coast three like working with josta it's probably like a six month four or five six month process you know because the music would already be done but it's like finding time to get in there to get into the studio you know and

I'm only like, I'll go in there, I'll do a song at a time and bounce, you know? Really? Yeah, I'm not gonna, like, kill myself to get it done, you know? So, yeah. It's a slower experience for us, but, yeah, it's generally a slower experience. We don't say, like, okay, let's block these two weeks out of the calendar. Yeah. And let's go record an album together.

We don't do that. And, like, Evan recorded all the guitars in his room, like, on his computer. and just sent him to Will, like, di-ed in, and then Will just re-amped. Dang. Yeah. The future is crazy, man. The future's crazy. Remember, just recording demos was like, oh, my gosh.

Yeah, no, we haven't been in a studio. I don't know. I don't know when we were in the studio last. Wow, you really can't tell. Yeah. Listening to your records, it wasn't even a thought that crossed my mind. You know, are these guys in a studio? are these guys, you know, who's the producer?

No. I honestly don't know the last time. That is insane. Yeah. You just knew what you guys really go by feel, and it sounds like you guys just know what you want, you know, and you also, that also sounds from knowing who you are. Yeah, I mean, it's, like I said, it's just been Evan and I for so long,

and it's like, a lot of times, too, I, it takes, sometimes takes more time, because I'll write the lyrics before the song. Yeah. So then I'll have an idea of like, okay, I kind of need the riff to sit in the background like this because I already have a melody, or I already have lyrics, already have a story I want to tell.

Sure. So I got to like kind of build it around it too. Yeah. So that happens a lot. But like that, like I said, like Evan and I are just like, yeah, it's awesome. I mean, he's the man. And he's so talented and like,

he can translate any ridiculous voice note that I sent him into something 100 times better. Yeah. He probably gives my voice. voice notes and like laughs and like this fucking guy yeah I'm sure idiot yeah but he but it ends up sounding great so it's fine but no he's dude he's incredible so that's awesome really awesome songwriter like he's he's he's really good dude the voice notes or the voice memos for a game changer totally any idea it comes in your head when you're driving and so you just pull up your phone

fucking yeah exactly exactly as long as you get that fucking birth there yeah then you could just leave it Totally, exactly. So we do something similar where, like, you want to write that simple breakdown, but I find them harder to remember the older I get. And I'm not sure what, I'm not sure what that means. I mean, you, like, you get it down, it's sick, but it's kind of like, the memory kind of loses it more often now. Yeah.

I mean, that's kind of what I was saying earlier. Like, I'm glad I'm not. I would not want to be playing guitar in Lionheart at a festival in front of 50,000 people trying to remember which like judd-jud pattern I'm supposed to play now like that's hard I think that's hard

so far no one's fucked up not gone wood but because I don't remember when it's about to come in I look over to the guitar and I'm like I wonder what this motherfucker's about to play because I don't know what this I don't know what hell is going on

and sure enough as soon as it hits I'm like all right I got it okay now We're rocking, you know? And that's why you come in on the two. That's why I come in on the two. Oh, that's cheating, dude. 100%. Because then I'm like, and okay, I know the part now.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, you come in on the one, you got to know what song you're in. Then it's like, fuck, man, I may have to practice a time or two, you know? Oh, my goodness. We don't really rock like that. We don't practice either, so. Of course. Nah.

What's, do you guys drink? Yeah. Generally a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't have a problem, but. I want to apologize.

because I definitely generalized you. I'm like, Lionheart, Raub Watson, probably straight edge. Dude, for years.

I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. Everybody thinks out, it's like the weirdest. No disrespect. I mean, yeah. Sure,

we play with last straightish band's ball, yada, yada, yada. No, not straight edge. It's like the weirdest thing to, I don't know why

people think that I'm straight edge. It's like a lot of people that think we're a straight edge band. I don't know. Who knows? It might be a combination of, The sound of the band plus Lionheart. Yeah.

If you're from anywhere near Oakland or Orange County, it's kind of like... Yeah, it's true. Because over here, like, the Orange County hardcore scene was like pretty much every band was straight edge. Dude, yeah. I know. Yeah, I know. That's true. Yeah.

But no, I mean, actually, the last tour, though, I... The last tour, I didn't have one single drink, the whole tour. Really? Why? I mean, we were playing the, so there was our first time in, you called it out earlier, but like the venues were big, you know what I mean? And we selling them out, like. It's insane, dude. It's insane.

And so we're playing like a real headliner set. I think it used to be we'd headline and we'd be like, we can do 35 minutes, right? Like, that's chill. Oh my goodness. Can't do that anymore, dude. Can't do that anymore. This tour, we're like, okay, we're like, you know, doing a couple thousand people in night, probably cannot. play a 35 minute set, you know?

So we're like, all right, let's build a real headliner set. We had like production. You know, we have like the fake fire and smoke and all the shit for the first. Dude, it's so sick. Like, Craig, coolest thing in the world, you know? And so I'm like, all right, I need to be like at a different level too, you know? Like the tickets are cost real money at this point.

And we're not playing $10 bar shows, you know? Yeah, dude. People are waiting all week. They're bringing, you know, their spouse or whatever, they're paying money. Like they're coming here to see a show. I got to be what I need to be. And so it's like, it wasn't about getting drunk.

I never drink enough to like get drunk or something when we're on tour or playing shows. But it does, I think I already have like some like acid reflux issues, you know, like I'm popping tums all the time and that type of shit. Probably because I'm old. But I already have that going on. So it's like, okay, if I'm drinking on top of that, it's only going to like compound those issues I already have. Yeah. And my voice is going to go out sooner. Plus, it's hard.

I'm in, like, decent shape, but doing 60 minutes under those lights, running back and forth on the stage, like, it takes a lot out of you. I can't be drinking while I'm doing that. Like, it doesn't work like that, you know? Maybe one day when I'm Aerosmith and I'm just standing at a mic stand, you know? Yeah. Sure. But I'm like, I feel like I'm running a marathon when I'm up there.

So it's like, all, I'm not going to drink at all. I didn't have one sip of alcohol the entire tour. Not one, period. It was crazy. What do you do after then? Dude, our one guitarist Wally, he makes the greatest tea in the world. Like this like lemon, ginger tea. He's from Germany, actually.

I don't know how he's making this tea. I've tried to replicate it here. It's not possible. I've tried. I bought all the ingredients, put everything together. It doesn't taste the same. So Wally's got some type of special. tea going on. Interesting. So I would drink that

every night, like, go up sit in the lounge. It was the no party zone on the bus. Upstowns, you know the drill, that's the no party zone, at least for us. Yeah. So I was the mayor of the no party zone. Sick. I'm up there. I got my tea, got my iPad, watching some shows,

having some pizza. You know what I mean? There you go. Being chill. Not talking. So I parted 0% on that tour. Plus I'm like working the whole time too. Like, if we're not on stage, I'm probably working and so yeah just like no parting so maybe I am

straight edge oh wow yeah could be it's funny I felt like stupid one because my my favorite record from you guys I was playing is a valley of death and that and that came out in 2019 I was playing it and then my my favorite

songs are the title track which is track one and then the last song in my skin yeah dude and I was listening to like really listening to like the lyrics, which is why I like the more simplified lyrics, because you really like, oh shit, it just hits you more when you get hit, like, you get hit that fucking

point, boom. I was like, is he talking about pills right there? Yeah, but like more like prescribed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually the first song, yeah, the intro to that album, the Valley Death song is probably my, that's probably my favorite line heart song. Really? I think that the intro to Valley Death, yeah, that's probably my favorite

lineheart song ever. Is it what you're talking about, the lyrics, or is it like a thing like a hole? I think, like, the, they are some of my favorite lyrics I've written for sure. And I, I'm still a hardcore dude, so I love a good intro, you know? Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, I, I don't know. I think it was the, like, the lyrics for sure, they're, like, they were close to me that definitely. And so loved the lyric content of it and just, like, loved the, I, I don't know.

vibe of that song. I don't know if it caught on. We don't really play it live, so I don't know. But that's probably my favorite Lionheart song ever, is the intro to that album. That's great. I love when you say yeah, pain killers, like cloud my

vision. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's very true. Totally, dude. Yeah. So anytime like pain reliever, like your brain is not there. Dude, no. I feel like most, I mean, like most people, if you listen to Lionheart, that's 90% of my lyrical content is probably like mental health related

just always has been you know that's kind of yeah we have a few of those like whatever like ignorant songs too like definitely like you have your fucky songs you have all that shit too no doubt but yeah the majority of the content is like kind of that introspective

whatever like this is what I'm dealing with this type of shit yada yada yada so that's kind of always been our our thing I think I thought that was the best and my personal favorite is the in my skin i've this was a few years ago um i don't know if you have if you journal you have journals just uh just use you just rewrite shit but uh i tend i tend a journal and uh just write you know thoughts and feelings that has kind of come up

you know it's good to like get him down supposed to be like a healthy thing to do for sure hopefully yeah yeah no like a lot of people like who journal i feel like i've read a few articles on it how it is like super productive puts you in a good spot like if you start your day with it all those different things but I've never like leaned into I never tried it but it's supposed to be like a thing yeah I remember like uh you know you have some some days you're a little bit more self-aware than others of what of what you're feeling I remember like man I can literally feel the demons in my skin yeah and like I just like I have like quite a feel like I don't have the time like go because I wanted to bring it in like you there it is but like I was like shit like so when

when you said that the actual line the demons in my skin I was like damn like those hits That's awesome. So fucking sick, dude. What is that? I don't know. I mean, I think that... I mean, that's why I started playing music to begin with. And that's why I got into, like, blood for blood.

That's why I felt so... Like, I've always struggled with my own mental health issues since I was a kid, you know? I'd like to think I have them fairly under control these days. But, like, I have struggled with it for a long time and have my own experiences within, like, the mental health system, some good, some bad, most of them bad. And so, uh, and I think like when I was younger, again, like this is definitely pre-internet and all that stuff. Like, you don't have access to the same resources that other people would either because of, some of it was because of the financial position we may have been in. And some of it was just like the internet

didn't exist, right? So if you're a young kid during that period of time and you, and you do have like any degree of mental health issues, it's like easy to feel pretty alone, you know? And I certainly did, you know, 12, 13 years old, 6th grade, 7th grade, etc. And I didn't feel like I had anywhere to turn. I really just had my disc man and my headphones. And like that was my place of solace, you know?

That was my piece. And I was never like genre specific. I think I just gravitated towards music where the creator was having some sort of like violent reaction to whatever they were experiencing in their life at that moment you know like they had passionate lyrics for one reason or another so it didn't matter if it was biggie or pock or bone thugs or you know um hate breed or pantera or strife or uh the unseen or the casualties or a global threat or whatever it could have been. It didn't make any different. It was like it didn't matter what the genre was. It just

mattered that the person on the other end was feeling as intense as I was feeling. And I remember when I first heard blood for blood, that was the first time where I was like, holy shit, somebody else feels exactly the same way that I feel. Yeah. And I couldn't believe it. Like, I just, it was of one of those moments. that you kind of never forget, you know? Yeah. And that was it for me. I was like, oh my God, like I have to have every record by this band.

I have to listen to the appealing apart the lyrics because I was like, I can't believe this dude is saying all these insane things that I'm thinking in my head. You know, like I hadn't ever heard that from somebody else because my exposure to that was so limited. There's no internet. I'm also 12. Like all these different things, right? So I have like pretty limited means of like learning about shit in general. And ever since then, I was like, okay, this is all I want to do. I didn't want to do anything other than play music because I wanted to tell my story

so that a listener on the other side would say, holy shit, someone saying the things that I'm thinking for the first time and they'd have that experience. And so that's what I've tried to do with Lionheart. And again, like we have, you know, our ignorant songs and we have our songs about Northern California and all that shit. but 90% of our catalog is about those mental health struggles or those issues that folks go through or the way I grew up, this, that, and the other.

And so I've tried to be very honest about that. I've tried to be very direct, very matter of fact. Like there's no mystery in those lyrics. You know, it's not supposed to be poetic. I'm painting a picture so that you understand exactly how I was feeling at that time, exactly what I went through. It's not supposed to be.

anything grander than that. If you don't like it, then it's not for you. Yes. You know? If you need it wrapped in some type of like poetic ambiguity, then this is not for you. Yeah. Period.

And that's okay. But that's how I've tried to write. And that's why the band is still going. And that's why I haven't been able to let it go too, because that's my only space to have those conversations, even if I'm having them with myself, you know? Yeah. So it's always been my place of solace.

And I think it is that for other people too. And at least that's what we've been told. I've met people all over the world that have the same reaction to some of our lyrics that I had to Blood for Bloods lyrics, you know? And so it's been like really cool experience. I wonder if there's a relation with the way like, like, so you paint a clear picture. So maybe that's how people from Europe can actually hear what the fuck you're saying. Probably, yeah. It's like boom, right, right, right.

And here's a clear picture. Boom. Exactly. You know? And as we learned from our idols and you probably recently learned from guys like Josh said it's that simple fucking. Yeah. Boom. It's funny.

Like you can read it in the, because yeah, I read every review of the album. Oh, my goodness. I read all of that. Like, for sure, you know? Like, definitely good, bad, everything. It's like I'm curious, you know? Okay. And I don't read YouTube comments, though.

That one I can do without because that shit's all insane. Like, also like, what's type of? the lunatic leaves a YouTube comment. It's like a weird vibe, you know? That's just like crazy to me anyway. But I do read all the album reviews, you know? And it's funny because it'll always be like, it, you know, the lyrics are obvious or they're too on the nose or like any type of

like metaphor you can come up with and it's like, yeah, dude, why would I, I'm telling you a real story about what happened and why I feel the way I feel. Yeah. Why do I need to paint it in this like weird? Yeah. like poetic grandeur it's just

it's crazy to me you know but it's just not the type of like I don't respond well to music like that I don't like

any of that that style either you know I like the I like storytellers I like people that are telling

exactly what happened like when they paint the picture I want to know what they're going through you know that's like

what music is for me you know same I like I like something very similar just like that clear picture

and it's those things are like the hardest to write though yeah Yeah, because it's like, I think that was why it was so hard to put it on paper and share it with Jasta too, because it's like, now I feel like I'm journaling, you know? Like, I feel like I'm letting somebody read my fucking diary.

Yeah. It's, it's, it may, it is a weird experience because you almost have like, and you can go back and look at those lyrics. I mean, you have like, even with Valley Death, like, like, there's some really, really dark shit in. there, you know? And there's some really, like, you're really bearing your soul. I'm really opening it up. I'm really talking about, like, how I felt at my absolute lowest of low in my darkest moments. And when you let somebody into that and you have music surrounding it or screaming surrounding it, you almost have like a little bit of protection, you know, because there's all these other elements. Of course, yeah. You know, and there's all this other like context that you're

providing with those lyrics. But if it's only the lyrics, And they're only reading your fucking diary. It's tough. Then, yeah, it's like weird, you know? Then it's a different experience. So that was really hard for me, for sure. Really, really weird. Yeah, you did something pretty, yeah, that's very extreme.

It felt very extreme. He was like, not Sean bad, because he's been doing this forever. For me, I was like, this is insane. Like, I can't believe I'm doing this. Yeah, it's like, hey, don't fucking turn the page. I have never shared with anybody ever. No one in the band ever. no one's ever read a single lyric from mine

before they've heard it. Ever. Man, you dealt with a lot in a few moments, dude. So like weird fucking vibe, you know? That's weird. Totally weird. That's so tough, man. Respect, man.

That's a, I don't think I can do that, you know? I mean, it was great though. It was like such a cool experience. And yeah, at this point, I'm like comfortable talking about all that stuff anyway. Of course. You know what I mean? And even when we play shows,

I usually talk about the mental health stuff. Like at some point in the show, like it's, it's important to me. It's something I'm passionate about. And it's why I make the music that I make. And so it's fine. But yeah, it's definitely, it was an interesting vibe for sure. Like that sucks. That's one of my biggest fears.

I don't like I have something to hide in there, but it's just weird. Like one of the only privacies I have is like the journal. So if I find out someone like read it, I'm like, oh. Yeah, it's weird. It's fucked up. Totally. I don't know what I'll do it. That's like the only privacy you have.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, you just did it. Yeah, it's weird. Oh my goodness, dude. Well, that's fucking badass. That is cool.

Just added curiosity because we have a similar life and chosen path. I think we had a similar thought where, like, you know, I forgot how many times I wanted to quit my band. This is a natural. Dude, totally. You're like, I was fucking over this. I'm curious what it was like for you guys when you're like, okay, let's let's this break up. It's over. What was that like?

I think part of it And this Yeah, we broke up We like very famously broke up Still get shit for that too, obviously It was after Love Don't Live Here Which is the album after Welcome West Coast

But it was after Love Don't Live here And I remember First of all it was like a A knee-jerk reaction Like I was No joke I remember I was like at the gym one day

And all of a sudden I was like you know what, we're done. And I texted everybody. You serious? I swear to God. I didn't even think about it. I was just like, okay, we're done. It came into my head, we're done.

And I think, like, I, the rationale that I was using was if we, because there was at a time where we were starting to kind of pop off or getting all these, like, tour offers. I have to say no to them because, like, I'm working. The other guys are working. We have other shit going on. Like, it didn't, it didn't feel like it matched up with, like, what my life was at the time. Yeah. And at that point, too, like, we had done it for so long.

The, you know, we're starting to lose members. It's, you're kind of doing that whole thing. And it just felt like, you know what? If we can't be 100%, then I'm doing a disservice to the band, to the name, to the legacy, if you can even have one, you know? And so it was like, okay, if we can't be 100, we're going to be zero. Period. And so we had already had a tour booked in Europe like a summer tour festival

with all that whole thing, you know the drill. And so I just changed the flyer and named it final tour. Like, okay, we're done so, I guess. You know? Like played some shows here, did a big show in Oakland and we were done. And it was all because I felt like

if we couldn't be 100, then we should be zero. And like a year or so went by and I was like, man, this actually sucks. Like, you know, like this is terrible. I miss the band. Like I miss. writing. Evan and I are talking all the time. We're still like trying to write together. Yeah. And I was like, dude, I'd rather just go and embarrass myself and say we're back.

We fucked up. It was a dumb choice. Come out to a show or don't. I don't know. I just want to play again. Then like live with the decision forever, you know? And so that's all we did. Literally, I think in the statement when we came back, I was just like, yeah we fucked up shouldn't have broken up we miss it we're gonna play when we can play you know come out or don't and so then we came out with walking west coast too and yeah stuff like took off even more than ever honestly it was crazy it was such a weird i don't know what happened that's a weird like disappeared for a year came back fell on the sword and basically hey like we're idiots we didn't we shouldn't have broken up but we did sorry um we're gonna try

try to run this thing back. Everybody was like, yeah, cool, let's go. It was weird. So we still get a lot of shit for it, obviously. Sure. Which is fair. But it wasn't like intentional or anything. It was just, I don't know.

We're in a weird headspace. And it's hard going from being like a full-time band to being a part-time band. People are juggling like careers. And you're entering a different phase in your life where you kind of do have to say, okay, am I going to do, am I going to be like, a professional band guy or am I going to take a different path and go a different road and try to hold on to the band it's like a very hard juggling act you know it is and and you see it with like a ton of bands now obviously you know a lot of people do the part-time thing but there's always these weird

stages in between like it's a hard thing to kind of navigate you know like bleeding through did it like a lot of people have kind of gone through that same that same thing yeah I mean you have different people that are going at their own pace of life totally you know it's tough it's tough growing up, you know, trying to, like, balance things. Totally. And, like, it's trying to get my career off the ground. Like, so many things are going on. And, yeah, it just felt difficult to focus on it.

And I was so paranoid about fading out, you know, by not, because you put so much work in it. Like, you live in a van for so long. Like, you, you started in all this math. We were like, holy shit. Like, I don't want to just fade out. Like, because I have to say no to all these tours, I'd rather, I'd rather just burn out real fast. and say we're, we're done to and leave like that. So part of it was like, just paranoid that being a part-time band would lead to just slowly not existing.

You know? So we're like, I might as well just fucking kill it then. So it was like after, after you, like you felt and thought something after a good year. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, shit, fucked up. It was definitely, like, embarrassing coming back, though, for sure. Like, you had to just be, like...

Was it? I felt like it was, like... Yeah, and it wasn't something that you could try to spin either. You really... And we've always been super honest with people, so it was better to just be like, yo, like, we're still just as dumb as we were when you were coming to the last shows.

Like... That's a good way to put it. Yeah, yeah. So, like, surprise, like, still pretty dumb, like, fucked up, you know? well I mean it sounds but better to be honest you know yeah I mean you times like that it sounds like you go

always go to your foundation like you have like you've built a lot of people know you're a band from the Bay Area to now you're in Europe and now you're torn at that point probably five five yeah you know album is like you without knowing which is always a trip like look back on when you do it's like

you built this foundation of honesty yeah and then and then you come back like you're just we're honest again fucked up and come out to the show or not, cool. Yeah. And now it's bigger than ever. Yeah. And so right choice was made, you know?

It's like, okay, now that's great. I'm glad we did come back. I'm glad we did give ourselves that time. I wish we would have just called it a break, you know? That would have been like the more mature thing to do rather than like panic and break up, you know? Sure. But yeah, we really just needed a break, you know, to like kind of figure it out. Because it is hard.

You get to that age. Everybody's like. It's weird. You know, you're, you're. yeah you're starting up careers you're doing all these different stuff like kids yeah you're like taking all these different roads and the band is like

more of a hassle sometimes than anything so oh yeah oh yeah actually you you just touch on it like it maybe it was kind of like maybe uh they'd come back because you know you know we made the wrong choice but actually did you

maybe like it was needed like to get that like just to yeah I mean that's a better way to look at it you know it's like shit like sometimes you just need to go through something like realize oh shit like like I fucked up we fuck oh we truly want to do this sometimes sometimes you just got a yeah you're like you're going through life and you have to make a certain decision but that decision helps you really truly find what you want and that's I mean that's exactly what happened because it did feel like a chore sometimes prior to that now it's like a vacation when we get to go on tour it's not it's like a lot it's so hard work obviously like by day three

like I'm 36 I'm fucking shot no doubt but it's still like every day I've said it a hundred times on this already somehow but it is it's so humbling like that last we did in Europe dude I just like it's crazy dude like I'm calling my mom like this is wild we're doing a couple thousand people like this it's crazy and so nuts but you experience it in a diff through a different lens now like knowing you had given it up at one point point, you know. And so I do cherish those tours. I do cherish those moments. They are humbling. I try to make sure that I like give myself the opportunity to to the best I can like live in that moment and acknowledge at least to myself like holy shit. What we're doing is like really, really cool right now.

Sit here for a second and realize that this is really cool because it won't be like that forever. You know, you know how that stuff goes. Like, sure, at some point, we won't be doing a couple thousand people. We're doing a couple hundred people. And that's cool too. But right now, for it to be going the way it's going is humbling. And it's incredible. And so try to give myself, try to make myself say, okay, like, this is really happening.

This is really fucking cool, you know? Yeah. Maybe even like the fans, you know, kind of realize, oh, they could go away to any moment. Maybe that maybe even helped in a weird way. Yeah, maybe. You know, I thought about, like, what are we in just, like, go away for a while and just kind of see what happens. Yeah, but I mean, you guys are back popping, though, too, now. Yeah.

You're doing a lot of cool shit. Slow, you know, same with, similar to what you guys did, you know, ours was a record, you know. But that kind of just, me and person has helped you realize what you actually really want to play and do. And then you go further into you. Yeah. You know, now we're back to writing into what we want to write heavy shit and this. Do you play any of this stuff from that album? Right, we used to play one song off it

Now it's zero because we're trying to bring in You know how it is like a new record You gotta play at least three new songs Yeah, yeah I think once that bounces out We're probably gonna bring back kind of inch You know Yeah

Play one or two from the self-titled You know, see what happens The worst is playing new songs Like either before the album is out Or Yeah When it's like just out and it's not like You know what it's not like

You know it's a hitter but everybody doesn't know it yet yeah yeah you gotta like suffer through it almost you yeah yeah we'll just fucking play and then you're like excited even doing it the past year and a half so for you like it's like not like a new song yeah yeah yeah it's just like it's weird but you got to so it's a it's a hard dynamic to put on like their right set list it's so it's always kind of a weird you want you know everyone to be stoked totally you know yeah well rob um i think this was a high note thank you for uh you know thank you for pick up the phone yeah yeah that pissed you that let's let's let's end it on a low note but i don't like it when i call someone they don't pick up

nah it fucking pissing me off yeah i mean it says maybe chris garza i literally answered what's up chris all right so yeah like yeah why am i not gonna answer but it is like yeah it is kind of wild though these days if you think about it like why wouldn't you answer a number that you don't know. It's a different generation, man. I remember when you had a cell phone and it was Russian roulette. Like you're flipping open the top. It's our answers itself.

It's already going. It's already going. And you're like, I don't know who this is going to be. I'm going to roll the dice. That was a scary time. Imagine if that's how it was not. Imagine if every time he answered your phone, you had no idea who was on the other line.

Totally. Horror. And you knew, and it was talked about amongst your friends whose screens they were called? Which you don't know what a screen call is is you basically look at it who's calling and you let it go to an answer machine. Yeah. It's like, and they were all known as like, oh, that's, that's shitty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that made you pick up the fucking phone. And what was that? I don't want to screen my calls. What was that service? Star 69 or whatever. What was it? Star 69. Yeah.

That was the landline. Well, now it was called landline. Oh, yeah. Dude, that's another thing I was joking with my friends about the other day. Not having a landline when I was a kid. And you had to call to talk to a lady friend when you were in middle school or high school. Oh, I don't even think about that anymore.

Dude, you had to pray that like the dad wouldn't answer. People don't be like, hi, this is Rob, man I speak with, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, oh, Rob, who are you? And you're like, oh, God, now I got to do this whole thing, you know? But like kids now, they'll never have to do that. They can just like DM or something stupid. And there's no pain involved. No pain.

None. There's no risk. You need a little bit of pain or risk, dude. Dude, yeah, there's no terror. There's no nothing. I would be, like, sweating. Like, God damn, I hope this. Like, the parents don't answer.

You know, then I've got to go through this whole thing. It doesn't exist anymore. That's probably how the bank. My kids will never, like, my son will never experience that. It's a bummer. It is, huh? Yeah, he won't have to deal with that. He's going to have it easy.

Man, being terrified in his 13 calling your first girlfriend's house. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And then you never know who's listening to. Someone may. Oh, yeah. You could pick up in an other line.

Exactly. And they, any of this, you drop, exactly. Like, my son will never have to deal with that. Bummer. Oh, my goodness, dude. I've been talking to some bands, they're, obviously, they're younger,

and then, like, I ask them a question, like, you know, during your first show, did you have a cell phone yet? And a lot of these new bands are like, yeah, I had a cell phone. I was like, I started touring nothing. I can't even, like, comprehend, like, seeing a band for the first time

with the first, like, your favorite band, and then, like, you don't have a phone. You're just like, you're fucking there. I mean, dude, even when we would first tour, I would go to AAA and I would give them my route, like all our venues, and they would print out, like, the directions for free because, like, I think like my mom got me AAA because she thought I was going to die because I was, like, in a tour, I was going to go tour, you know, so she's like, oh, my God, I'm buying you triple A. I don't know. I don't think I ever used it one time, but you could go to AAA and they would, like, instead of having to print MapQuest, set your house. Like they would build like a little book and they would like, it was basically map quest from venue to venue, which the first time I was like, this is cake.

Like my life is bad to be so easy, you know? But then you realize you don't only drive venue to venue. Like what kind of psycho shit would that be? Yeah. You know? So now it's like, okay, if I'm getting off to like go, you know, you're on stage. Does anybody have a place we can crash? Yada, yada, yada.

You like go off course one time and now your MapQuest printouts. You know what you're at. They're garbage. Now you have no idea where the fuck you're at, you know? And so, yeah, those first couple tours, it was crazy. We had no, we graduated to a TomTom eventually. But yeah, no GPS, just MapQuest. I remember that.

Not good. Yeah, I remember when the GPS just came in a picture, you fucking glued it to your fucking, when she was like, oh, we're fucking, we're a big band, dude. We're fucking shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just bought this from Walmart. Yeah, yeah. But we definitely missed a lot of shows.

Really? Dude, yeah. Because you just didn't know where you're at, got fucking lost or what? Yeah, and sometimes we were also just like stupid and we're like, oh, like we, first time we were supposed to play Vegas, we got all riled up because we were in Vegas. Yeah. And like we literally went to Margaritaville instead of playing the show. What?

So stupid. We were just like hyped on Margaritaville. We were like, damn, it's a Margaritaville. We're like, we've never been to Margaritaville. We should go. And then we get in there. we're like, oh man, we kind of got to go to the show. We're like, but we're in a margarita.

Oh, wow. You guys are next level. We're like, fuck it. Let's just stay at this fucking place. And so we kicked it at the Margaritaville for like hours and literally did not go to our first Vegas show. Unbelievable. Who made that call? That was definitely me.

Oh, wow. It was, there was like an old vineyard. Neckbeards maybe or something. Neckbeards. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We just didn't show up. Jesus, man. Yeah, I swear to God. It was crazy Like we just did that all the time It was so dumb dude Like

Insane So Well I mean At least you still got a good rep Yeah But I don't know honestly Like would you rather go to Margaritville Or like play a show for 20 people

At neckbeard's you know I think we would try to go after the show And just get hammered Yeah that's the right answer But we were already at Margaritaville We were chilling So I was like Can't leave this place

Man we're in heaven You can't As long as we don't do in Europe No No, no, no. Then we get found in beat up. Yeah, 100%. Well, Rob, it was a pleasure to hang out with you, talk with you.

It's great to see the band doing cool shit. Dude. Where can people find you, and where can people find the band? You could probably find the band in Europe, generally. Europe. Yeah. I'm down here in Orange County. Sick.

I have the time of my life. Sick. Greatest place in the world. It is. Yeah, the band's on Instagram, Lionheart, CA. It's on Facebook I don't know if anybody uses Facebook I feel like that's weirdo territory these days

I hear it's a big thing in Europe actually Facebook's weirdo territory now Honestly weird shit going on there But anyway we're on Instagram We're everywhere Spotify you know the drill Cool yeah All right everyone Rob thank you

Appreciate you dude man That's it man all right one That's it later Awesome