Garza Podcast - 74 - Brandan Schieppati | BLEEDING THROUGH: Pioneering Metalcore & Politics in Metal

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Garza sits down with Brandan Schieppati. Singer of Orange County metalcore band Bleeding Through. With animosity/bitterness between the Inland Empire & Orange Country hardcore scene. This conversation between Brandan & Garza took 20 years to happen. We talk about the deep origins of HEAVY music as we know it today. If it wasn’t for Brandan. Most of our favorite heavy bands wouldn’t exist. https://www.instagram.com/bleedingthrough SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! TIME CODES: 00:00 - Taking Risks & Feeling Confident 02:20 - Fan Appreciation Through the Years 05:20 - Dealing with Burnout 08:03 - Derek Youngsma (Drummer) 12:31 - Everyone Rips These Days 14:12 - Being A Pillar of Deathcore/Politics In Metal 21:35 - Animosity Between the IE & OC Hardcore Scene 26:30 - Being in Eighteen Visions & Throwdown at the Same Time! 31:45 - What Was Brandan Listening To in the OC? 33:15 - Heavy Shit 34:44 - Being Easy or Difficult to Work With 36:18 - Personalities Within the Band 37:58 - Unique Sounds Across 3 Bands (Eighteen Visions, Throwdown, Bleeding Through) 39:44 - Where Did Eighteen Visions Get Their Style From? 42:25 - 24 Years In, Being heavy AF 46:45 - Working with Devin Townsend on Declaration (2008) 47:35 - Getting Pigeonholed 51:18 - Ozzfest 2004 01:08:44 - Inspiration 01:11:40 - Being Straight Edge for 13 Years  01:18:04 - Rise Above Fitness 01:28:50 - Being Authentic & Connecting with People

Every band has their peak of, like, people go to your shows, they buy their record, they buy your record because they almost feel like, because of the climate, you're a popular band at the time, they almost have to be there. Fans that we have now have a greater appreciation for, like, our emotion that we put forth, the actual music, like, legitimately, like, care. Like, I get that energy, like, when I go on stage, and that's the energy I feel from the crowd. Use ENG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. head over to emgpickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off. And then once you write the heaviest song of all time, head over to distroKid.com slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms. And now to the heaviest podcast of all time. I just feel like most bands get better.

Like, take Suez that sounds. Your new fucking record is awesome. like everything you've done gets progressively better and better and better. Thanks, Brandon. But I mean, it's the truth. I mean, like, that's crazy. And it's like, I feel the same thing for like our band is that we just get better as we go. Because we love writing music together.

We kind of know what we're about. We know where to test it. We know where to like kind of sort of like take those like, not risks, but like where to progress in our music. You know what I mean? Yeah. You guys, bleeding through definitely does take risks, but also knows your sound, has a foundation. And then that, I mean, that's been a pillar in your career. Totally.

I mean, it's definitely one of those things where I feel that we really know our sound and we know our vibe. And I don't feel like we've ever done anything that's like so like off the wall that be like almost like a like a try hard type movement or type move with our recording. I feel like we always kind of keep it in the pocket and do what we would do and feel that we do well. And like and sort of progress off that. Yeah. Isn't that trip that like, I mean, you're well into your career. Would you think or say that fans and people actually care more now than ever? It's interesting.

It's weird. Like as far as like total like fans. I feel like every band has their peak of like people go to your shows. They buy their record. They buy your record because they almost feel like because of the climate, you're a popular band at the time. They almost have to be there. Yeah.

There's those bands where you just like, you know, they have to be there. People have to be at the shows. So we had that moment, I mean, kind of like a couple times in our career. Even we might be even going through it now. But I feel like our fans that we have, now have a greater appreciation for like our emotion that we put forth the actual music. I feel like they're more of invested crowd. And so that makes that makes me feel like people care more now.

Yeah. Like legitimately like care. Like I get that energy like when I go on stage and I, that's the energy I feel from the crowd. Like, hey, we fucking love your band. We fucking care. We know that you care. We know that you love us.

And it's like this great like, like, like, volcano of like emotion and like aggression comes out you know what I mean and so I feel like people yeah in that regard I feel like people do care and I mean do would you consider that because have you guys had to take like kind of like like a like a break um I feel like maybe we gained like a little bit more of an understanding of like what um of like how just how important this band was to us by when we took and we took like a life break yeah it was one of the Those things were like, you know, like we were in this position where we were in our 30s, people were having kids and all that kind of stuff. And for me, it was getting hard to do tours for other people was getting hard to do tours.

The need was still there. The want was still there. But it was one of the things where we're like, dude, when we get offered things, now it's like we can never do anything. And then we started like going the route for like a couple years where we were getting like fill-ins all the time. And I'm like, this isn't why I want to do this band. like you know what I mean it's like I want to do this band because I want a solid unit together I want to play with the ones that I've been doing this band with for a really long time and share these moments with them and it wasn't that anymore and I just know that we were all in positions

to where we needed to get our lives in order we weren't making like multiple kid money you know what I mean so it was a way for like the people in the band to go out and establish their lives and their careers outside of bleeding through. And then when it was kind of time, like we all, I feel like we all like established ourselves and it had something else in our life. And coming back to it was kind of the perfect time. Yeah. And we just, I mean, we love it more because we don't get burnt out.

You know what I mean? Because burnout's fucking for real. It's a real thing, especially when we were going into like the 10 year, 15 year run. I mean, you, when you get hit and it's something that that you love, you put everything you haven't too, dude, it's a fucking hard thing to take in, dude. Right. You know, and you guys, and, you know, I taking a step back. I mean, that, I mean, that takes, you know, years, at least a year or two.

Yeah. You can kind of step back and, you know, assess, you know, your, like, your family and your life and your personal feelings and thoughts. Yeah. You know, and then probably, you know, and you're talking how you got the itch back, like in maybe three years in. Yeah. Totally.

Like, after about three years away from it, I'm like, okay, I want to do some stuff. And I did like a couple, I tried to do like another project after bleeding through. And it's just one of those things where that didn't really work. It didn't really feel right. And then I did another project called the Iron Sun. And that started to have a little bit of like, we played shows and put out a record and all this kind of stuff. But it just wasn't the same. Like bleeding through is like my heart.

Like those people are my family and I love them to death. I have more of a connection with the people in my band, even like the new members of my band. Like it's just is, it's a strong kind of connection where I felt like. if I'm going to play music, I want to play with them. That's why we struggled. That's why we went through all the years of doing what we had to do and whatever the fuck we did.

Like that's, we went through all of that shit together, and those are the people I want to show those moments with on stage. So I kind of just decided if I'm going to play music, it has to be this. And luckily, they were all in this agreeance that it was time to kind of come back and do it. And then COVID fucking hit.

Oh, my goodness. And it's like, then after that, I'm like, dude, like, I don't really know if like, I don't know if people are going to want to play anymore. Like, I don't know where their lives are at, where they've moved on their current situations. And it was like, kind of lucked out. I feel like everybody was in the same position as me where we're like desperately like

needing this part of our life back again. And it was one of those moments where I, you know, members are telling me like, I will do this as long as you want to do this. And to get that kind of recommitment to the band was like super overwhelming. And it was like, I was like, you know, and they said that to me, like, you played, you played so what festival and we played. That was the first show back after COVID. And it was like, to hear that come from like members of my band at that moment, I was like, all right. Like, okay.

That is so like, like, refreshing to hear. Totally. Especially when we're doing it for such a long time, you know, you get like these doubts. The fact that your band is like, is staying with you, you know. They're my heart, man. Like, for real. it's like what derrick's been in the band for since 2001 and two yeah 2001 that's crazy he i didn't know this so recently but he came from a cast and stone yeah dude remember that band that was cool

that band was fucking sick man man here's the story of that so i'm on tour bleeding through starts we're we're off to the races we put out a record on a on a like an independent label um i guess they're all independent. What am I talking about? Before we signed to Interscope or something, right? They're all a fucking independent label. So, like, it's like, we put out a record on prime directive records. It was a friend of ours.

It was like, hey, let me put out a record. And we're like, fuck, all right. And like, we first started. Like, that was it. We put out a record, cool. Like, we did it. We kind of didn't really have intentions to really, like, play shows. Then we started playing shows and, like, a lot of shows.

And it kind of started happening. It felt like it was. I mean, happening was like, oh, there was like 30 people at our shows. It's happening, right? But again, like, I talked about, like, the emotion. Like, I felt something different from the crowd. I'm like, this is going to mean something to people. Yeah.

And so I'm on tour with 18 Visions. And we set this winter tour together. And we get as we play one show in Salt Lake City and we try to drive to Colorado, I believe, the next day. We, our van just done once we get to Wyoming. So we're stranded in Wyoming for a couple days. And I'm, like, already, like, just bombed out. I'm like, fuck, this whole tour is fucked. We can't rent a van.

Back then, it was hard to rent a van. You know what I mean? And it was like, they wouldn't let you fucking even drive out of state. So it was like, you'd have to. It's just so many hoops to jump through, right? Yeah. That's nice. That's kind of crazy.

And I remember just being defeated from that, going back to Salt Lake, having to wait for them to fix our van so we could drive home. And I remember getting a call from our guitar player at the time. Scott. And he's like, hey, Troy, who was our drummer at the time, is quitting. And I'm like, fuck. And it's like, I didn't know. I didn't know any other drummers around that time that could play like him.

Like, because we were playing a lot of blast beats and he was just another level of a creature of a drummer. And because God told him to quit. And I'm like, cool, whatever. Like, he was very religious and, you know, he's a man with faith and I get it. Like, if that's what God is telling you that maybe something like that needs to happen in your life, that's fine. So we were like, fuck, like, is our band done? Like, we thought the band was just done. We're like, okay, well, we tried.

and then and then sorry this is taking a long time but anyway Scott's like why don't we try out Derek from Caston Stone and I'm like sure why not right and I knew Derek from casting Stone and stuff but I knew he couldn't do it really yeah I knew he couldn't do it I'm like this dude's not

gonna be able to play so we've got a couple practices and it went okay and then we played like a show and the show was like a small show in Redlands and it went okay and then after that like I feel like he had a moment where he just like just dedicated himself to it and that was like a big moment for him because like then we started practicing it I'm like all right this dude can do this now like he just pushed himself in a way to drum like we needed like blast beats like every motherfucker now can play blast beats back then if you could find a dude that could play solid blast beats

you're like you're the fucking greatest drummer ever or double bass like forget it no one can play double bass you know what I mean? Like, it was just like, it was one of those things. Like, you find one of those dudes, you hold on to one of those dudes. Now it's like, dudes are just like, like, it's fucking nuts. And so, uh, so Derek fucking stepped up and he fucking did it, man. And I love his, and I think his drumming style is,

is part of the thing of bleeding through. It's a very raw, aggressive, almost like hardcore thrash metal kind of, kind of feel, you know? Yeah, it maintains that, that, uh, that, that, uh, OC, i.e. hardcore kind of attitude vibe. But yeah, I guess he dedicated himself to, I guess, blasting. Yeah, dude. He did. Because as an outsider, you hear, you hear portrait, you're like, oh, that drummer is fucking sick. Yeah, totally. But he worked hard to do that, man. Like it, I forever give him props. And even like, even like him coming back after all of this time off from COVID and just jumping into it, like, I think he's drumming the best of he's ever drummed.

Like, it's fucking awesome. It's crazy. He dedicated himself and, uh, it's, uh, There's Derek handsome man. Yeah, dude, he's awesome. And a lifelong partner. Yeah, dude. And brother and bandmate. Absolutely. Yeah, I love him.

I mean, dude, we're talking like 2001. Like, you're not going to find a drummer that's ripping you blast beats and breakdowns. I was like... You're not going to find that guy. The only thing you could do is like kind of like scour like the death metal scene in the area. And they can't slam. No, they might be able to play blast beats, but they can't play a breakdown. You know what I mean?

That's true, man. It's very true. All these bands now have it so good. I'm just joking. Dude drummer, yeah, drummers are out there now. I mean, they're still scarce, but there's dudes that will, like, you could find out of the woodwork. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Fuck. I mean, fuck. Yeah, you had, you wanted to find that, that charismatic woman or frontman. So if you found that, you're like, oh, shit, I'm fucking sick. And then, like, guitar players kind of be sick, but not sick. You had to have a great singer and a gray drummer. Yeah. And those two were damn near, like, impossible to find.

See, and if a guitar player back then, if they weren't much on stage for as far as, like, performance, they just had to be techy. They had to have, like, some weird setup where people like, oh, my God, look at all those what are those knobs do? Like, one of those just, like, techy guys, you know what I mean? Wow. Now everybody just rips. Like, they just do.

Everyone wants just ripping. Yeah, seriously. And that makes me want to rip. Yeah, totally. It's cool. It's cool to get, like, a fire underneath your ass. Totally. It's nice. You know, I still, I still get that.

I still do too, man. Like, I like to say really current with music that I'm trying to listen to, especially in our genre or whatever the fuck. And it's like, I want to see what's out there. Yeah. Not for, not for like the fact of like, oh, we need to be better this band. It's not that. It's more just like, what's going to inspire me now?

Sure. And just so people that are listening and watching can make, I really want to lay down the foundation, Brandon. Like, you are a pillar and you helped inspire so many. bands and basically help create metalcore, hardcore, death core, what we hear now. Damn. You know? Well, that's the first time anybody's ever said that, so thank you.

Yeah, man. It's great. I mean, for us, we just put on Spotify and listen and that, and that's what we hear. But from what we hear now, I mean, it came from you, Brandon, and bleeding through 18-Visions. You work and throw down for, you know, a quick year. Yeah. Like, these bands are late 90s foundational to what, to what happened to, like, the sound

and what eventually became to where to us is like, there's so many sick bands out there. Yeah. You know, imagine, like, I can't imagine a world without, you know, bleeding through in 18 digits, man. That's awesome. You know, who knows where the metal core

and anything heavy music would, it would even be. Like, you know, I was very inspired by, like, the, like, the Orange County heartcore scene, you know, even though there's a little bit of beef here, I'm with the cruz, but, you know, but, but, but, but, but you, but, but, but, but, you, but, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I remember being a kid,

watching you guys being inspired to start my own band, seeing Scott up there rip with the warlock you know like you guys you guys you guys fucking change my life you know wow that's fucking huge that's heavy man yeah well I will say this

I'm not trying to diminish it but like we never used to be the band that would take compliments very well but now it's like we work on it so thank you man that really does mean a lot and I will give it to us like yeah we are the pioneers of what you hear now you know whether you directly know that

or it's something that's indirect and you could go through like the lineage of bands and find it you know what I mean um I'll give us that credit I mean you just gave us way more credit and that's very crushing no no no no no it's it's very fair you know and also like this this conversation took 20 years to happen yeah for sure it's so it's so weird we like always cross past and never no one ever like this introduced us and like shook hands I have a theory do you want to hear my theory okay it might be a little bit long so let me just go this thing going on okay okay all right So, like, you had our scene, right?

And, like, when we were all... I might need a sip a beer out. Oh, my goodness. This is the most important sip a beer ever known. So... This is history right here. It's like... When Southern California was kind of coming up in the whole, like, hardcore metal world,

we were so isolated. Remember, it was just like... We would have to drive... We wouldn't even drive to, like, Vegas first because there was nowhere to play in Vegas, which is crazy. Vegas is one of the best places. Yeah, sick now. I love playing Vegas.

So you'd have to bypass that and get to Salt Lake City. Okay? After Salt Lake, maybe you can find a show in Denver, but you normally had to drive to like Omaha, Nebraska. That was like the route. There was just nothing to do. So we had to really build our scene. And in the beginning,

we were like united all together. Bands really kind of like had each other's backs, always push each other. It was like, we're all going to do this together. Then when it all started happening, and it was like, you know, management comes into the world. And I just remember for like a few years, it being like, all this stuff's happening to our band.

Like, what do you mean? Like, it was just like, holy fucking shit. Like, I can't believe this is even happening. Yes. So it was one of those things where I give you just the story of like, about a couple years after Blaney if you started doing it, it was like, oh, do you hear a suicide silence? You know?

It was like suicide silence, job for cowboy, like the new wave. of like, yeah, exactly, like the new wave, right? Yeah. But I remember management and labels and agents all being behind this thing of like, we can't be friends. This generation of bands can't really be friends with this generation of friends. And probably the same thing coming from your management too. I'm sure not, I don't know if you're management,

but people in your circles that were like, you know, you guys need to take out the ranks of bleeding through and unearths and you're the next wave. You could over in it. It was there. I was around it. And it built like this. It's almost like we couldn't be friends.

You know what I mean? It was I felt, I felt that way. Like I remember doing a tour of job for a cowboy in, in Europe and being like, are we allowed to fucking play shows of this band? Aren't they supposed to be like the enemy to all things bleeding through in metalcore? We're metalcore.

They're death core. They're coming for us. Like, how are we going to let them in on this? It literally, it sounds fucking retarded, but like it really, really is something that is like, sure.

That's what was happening. Because it was like outside influences were trying to preserve and keep progressing what they had. And then, you know, for us and like keep it going. And then, you know, people behind you were keep. So it's almost like our paths are crossing because it was almost like we, it's almost like we couldn't form a bond. You know what I mean?

I look at terms of like this, like for like my era of like, like I said, like the unearths, the azaleigh dyings, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the darkest hours. There's a million bands I'm forgetting. But like that second wave of like suicide silence, wins a plague, like stuff like that. Like we weren't like, I've been homies with Johnny forever from wins of plague.

We were never really allowed to be friends. We tried to tour with each other. Agents wouldn't even allow it. Wow. They're like, oh, you know, just because it was all a dick measuring contest and posturing. It was. So I think that really contributed to the fact that like suicide silence

and bleeding through never, have never played a show together. that's fucking nuts not even a festival dude yeah like that's nuts to me yeah we literally just play together like a few months ago we did yeah but not i'm not the same not the same day though or wasn't anything the same day not even the same day though i'm talking about like the same day of a festival i know we i know we've been playing like festivals together and shit but like never the same day it was just that's just like i don't know man it's weird that that's how it was but it really was And it built like this weird animosity towards bands and shit and that shit sucks

It did I had to really like like re-evaluate how because I have like this mixed thing You know I'm glad that you open up I wasn't planning to go in into this but I had this kind of mixed love and hate with with the Orange County Hardcore scene because I grew up I I I loved it Brandon I I loved you I love I love Keith James hard you know I I grew up you know like looking at up to you guys and then like it sounds silly but like i would be in the pit like your friends are always fighting like you know jump me and shit and then like there was that and then like there's there's like this again i don't know what it was it's like a disconnect but not really because uh uh suicide silence was just starting to like once once the wheels are attorney like you're in a

different world totally and like um you're just you're just a dumb kid that's trying to like process what what the hell is going on and you got and you know what and like You guys were going on going through like through like the same like the same shit And we were off to the races so we didn't even know it was really behind us. Yeah. You know what I mean? We just had people working for us that were like well this band's doing this and it's like yeah yeah we definitely have that in common like uh like there's there's your era of bands and us where we didn't really have a road and there's no band that kind of show you and this all this all happened this morning because it's kind of been weird like listening to your records. And like now this time I'm doing research. And like, so like these emotions get awakened.

You know, because there's a lot of history between Orange County, where I'm born in Corona and Empire and Mitch. And like this seems kind of get like brought up. And I thought about today, man, like we, we, Orange County bands and the IE bands went through the same thing because we both didn't have a roadmap,

no one really helped us and then for a split fucking second I started to like dislike I'm gonna see Brandon today I'm like I'm like I told you like again that that hate started to came I came back up in me I was like man these guys should have fucking like

shut us the ropes man like we had nothing You're bitter It was an old bitterness It was old bitterness and that was old biters came up today Exactly It was weird dude I got you had the same feeling I'm like you know what Am I gonna talk about how like

I almost was like led to like hate your band. Wow. But I loved your band. You know what I mean? But it was like, I couldn't even like say that. Yeah.

And it was like, it was like talking points. Like people would be like, oh, fucking soos. And I'm like Jesus fucking Christ. You're killing me people. Yeah,

it's weird. Like the like the bands that should have been talking to each other. And you probably have a whole generation before bleeding through that should have been talking to you guys. Oh, for sure. And like, hey,

do this. Don't do that. But like, you know, it seems like you didn't have any mentors. And I didn't. And that makes you fucking bitter. Yeah, totally.

You're, almost like, you know, you're, you're kind of selfish sometimes. You're inside your own head. You're like, you know, why didn't I get hit up by these guys? And hey, you know, this is how you tour and this is, you know, watch out for this. Watch out for that. Yeah. Say we're just fucking thrown out. And it's weird.

Dude, I get it. And looking back, you know, it's all hindsight. But like, for sure. Like, I wish that we felt comfortable enough to like really stay involved in the local scene. when we were kind of off, like, just getting off to the races of touring all the time. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, we lost track. You know what I mean? Sure. And it was just, you know, people putting the blinders on us. And it was very overwhelming. Like, very overwhelming. It was.

Yeah. It was fuck, man. Because you're, like, your core is like, you know, you came from, like, your, I mean, deep down, you're like a hardcore band. Yeah. Same like, you know, you may, you'll disagree with what we are, but we are, you know, we came up in the hardcore scene.

We are a hardcore band at heart. If your ethics and your beliefs and your beliefs, beliefs and sort of what you're doing with your moral compass of being in a band, it can be from like the hardcore scene. You know what I mean? Sure. And that's not a bad thing. Yeah.

Because you'll maintain a certain level of like being humble. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then when you come from that and then all of a sudden, you know, like you're now it's not like, oh, where's going to play a show down the street? And now it's like, oh, now you're trying to turn nationally. Now you're trying to get signed. Now you're trying to, it's like you're in like this whirlwind and you're just young

and you're just young trying to process your own shit, you know, is unfortunately. you know, I think from my, my both being the same boat, it's just the age. It's age. It sucks. I wish, it wasn't like that, dude. I mean,

but it sucks. You know what? That's back then. It makes for a really good story. It does. We're here now. We're homies and we're good. Yeah,

I'm glad you feel like the same way. Dude, you know, this unnecessary bitterness. It was a weight. And it's like, for me, I'm one of these people that like tries to take on all the weight myself.

Fuck it. I don't want my band to feel it. I'll take this on, right? Yeah. And I just felt like that weight of, like, here comes these fucking bands.

Your band's going to get erased. Right? And I'm just like, dude, these bands are so much better than us, though. No. No, no, no, no. It's far as, I mean, I, I think a lot of, like, the second wave of bands are better than a lot of, like, our era of bands. That's why they're around more. I don't know, personally.

But anyway. I don't, I don't, I don't agree with that. I think, I think that's this, I don't want to see perspective, but I know, I think, you know, I was listening to, like, you know, know, like your records and, you know, dust the ashes, which just needs to be on Spotify. Do, do, do, what the fuck's going on? I don't really own the masters. That label, Prime Directive does, and I don't know why they don't put it on there. Why not?

I don't know. It's dumb. That's what I'm saying. I'm, I'm on YouTube. I want my, I want my, I want my, my music EQ on. Right. I'm in the gym. I mean my EQ on.

They'll fucking get sucked in. There's some fucking rad songs on that record. That whole record is fucking insane. It's cool. I listen. It's on, damn, like, it made me feel like, It makes you feel like like yourself. Yeah.

Does that make any sense? It does make sense. You know, and Brandon, I was curious, like, I mean, you had like a few years. I mean, you joined 18 Visions in 97. Yeah. And then literally seems like you went back to back. And then like 98 to 99, you join Throwdown. Yeah.

You drop the record. Beyond repair. Beyond repair, yeah. 18 Vision drops a record that same year, and then that same year, Bleeding 3 started. Yeah. What? What were you doing?

I don't know, man. Like, there were certain shows we played were like all three. I never left the stage for like three bands. And even like the first time Bleeding you ever went out anywhere outside. Well, we did some like California, like Nevada, Idaho shows,

but we never like went really east. went with 18 Visions for a couple weeks. And I remember like doing double duty every night and it's crazy. Double triple. I just like it's like that's just like I don't know. That was awesome. What a great time. Brandon, do you realize what a special time you were involved in?

I think I do. I actually do. I don't know. It's a very special time. I honestly think like I look back and I'm like touring without phones, which is oh, sick. Fucking crazy. MapQuest, road atlases, you know what I mean? A-a-boy.

Calling people at pay phones, I mean, like, calling the promoter like the day of the show to make sure the show is still happening and to get directions. Okay. We would literally drive to the city that we were playing, stop at a payphone, call the promoter and be like, can I have directions? Here's where I'm at, whatever. I mean, floor shows. You name it. That was awesome. And then to kind of go from there to like where it went.

Like I always say like we went from like just saying to ourselves like, hey, let's let's hopefully we get to like play shows and tour. And then all of a sudden we're on like headbanger's ball. Like that's weird to me. That's fucking weird. I never thought that would happen ever, you know? Yeah. I used to tape headbangers ball when I was like a kid. You know what I mean?

To be on that. Like so it's like what a, it was a fucking wild ass ride, man. so when uh since we're talking about 97 i mean obviously i'm from like the the i e like like your your rival county yeah but uh dim hammond bands with my band bleeding through was started as was majority inland empire for a long time it's awesome uh you know what i it hit me you know recently like you know i don't really know the history of like the orange county harker scene like you know what was that like i mean you're fucking hanging out with like you know james hard and Keith and like, like, what was it like in like the mid-90s?

You know, how, like, how did you guys meet to eventually form 18-Visions? We would just, we would just meet at shows. And like, I grew up in Newport Beach and all the guys in 18-Vision's grew up in Huntington Beach. And just go, like, Who's Cafe? You know, going to shows where there's like 20 people and like some of them are these people. And, like, you know, you just kind of like meet. And I remember going to see an 18-Vision show. Right? And this is this is how I like got in the band.

So I saw the first 18 Vision show ever at a place called Side by Side. It was a hockey rink in Huntington Beach back in the day. And it had a stage and they played under the name Macabre or Macab or whatever. Oh yeah. However the fucking say it. And I remember like seeing it and being like, dude, this is fucking dope. Like super heavy. I'm like this is like nothing like I've heard.

Orange County was known for like Band's like Ignite and like 1134 and Black Spot and like more like Faster like not happy but more punk More punk based at the time And here's this band 18 Vision's I'm like holy fuck This band's like rocking my fucking world right Yeah so then saw a couple shows

And I was friends of this guy Javier That was kind of well known in like the hardcore scene and stuff And he knew them and they needed a bass player So they asked him to play bass then it was like Kind of luck kind of came my way where they needed a guitar player and I'm like I'll do it like Javier's like hey he can do it

and I'm like at the time I'd literally been playing guitar for like less than a year sick and I'm just like well I'm gonna fucking do this man this is a chance for me so I'm gonna just learn how to fucking do this shit right so I fucking take the guitar like learn all the songs with Javier

go to practice and I do well enough where it they're like do you want to be in the band and I'm just like holy fuck I guess I'm in like like a real band out that plays like shows and shit like that's crazy like wow um crazy thing about that time so i started playing the songs like they're like dude why does it sound so heavy and they're like

and i'm like i don't know so they check so i check my tuning they're like oh you're tuned to drop b yeah i'm like oh no worries man i'll just tune back up and they're like no we're playing drop b now sick impact from number day number one wow and then throw down that's it same thing they started playing drop B because 18 Visions was at the time. Yeah. Whoa. So since, okay, so you're talking about, you know, Q's Cafe and so on. So obviously there was like, you know, like a group of like 30 people.

Like, how did you even, it does mean a sense? How did you even get there? Like, what were you guys listening to? I listened to a lot of like, really like eclectic underground, like, noisy hardcore. I was always into stuff with like blast beats with like more like high pitch screaming or like some stuff that had a little bit of like you could tell there was like a little bit of like death metal influence to it. Yeah. So like bands like an end we talk from the area. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

I can't even spell that, but there's an end we talk. Band's like phobia. Oh, phobia. Yeah. Like stuff like phobia. Like excruciating terror. Excruciating terror. Nice.

So stuff like that. And then I would see people from the hardcore scene that I would see at hardcore shows at those shows and so I'd be like oh well I can go talk to him like hey I saw you at fucking ignite or whatever and so then you talk and you like start talking about like these other types of bands like more crusty like more aggressive bands that I was like into. So then but those bands would play at like Who's Cafe in front of like nobody. You know what I mean? So I've met like a lot of people from like doing that kind of stuff. Yeah like going to those shows like those. Like those like total crust shows that were like, that's what I was about. Like it was awesome. Yeah. So you're just into heavy shit. I was into like really heavy and really fast like all the time. I wanted fast.

I wanted heavy. And that's the one thing about 18 Visions is we weren't fast. We weren't like a fast band. And like I felt like, I mean personally the way the direction I would have took in it would have been similar to like just adding a little bit more fast elements, a little bit more like metal elements to it. which eventually just I put towards bleeding through. But that's the direction I wanted to take 18 visions. I felt like we were evil enough. But when I was starting bleeding through,

all of our ideas of what we wanted 18 visions to be were completely different. Sure. I thought we were going heavier. They wanted to go more like mainstream, more like Stone Temple Pilots influenced heavy music. Yeah. Like, what's that band called? Hold on.

What's that band? that the dude well vision of disorder was a band that like they always kind of like oh like vision of disorder but what's the band stone um blood simple blood simple do you remember that band oh of course like that would have been like they're like that's like what they were kind of going for i just wasn't really on board with that kind of stuff yeah i was kind of like uh and it just it was naturally we parted ways and it it worked out for the best for both bands absolutely you want and like heavy i just once i started playing shows with like bleeding through doing some tours and stuff. I'm like, this is something that means

like so much to me. And A10Visions just did it. Yeah. I never, I never connected with their lyrics. And I'm a lyric person. So it's like if I just wasn't really into like, I wasn't into the vibe. Yeah. I think they knew that though. Of course. Yeah. Would you

consider yourself an easy or a typical person to work with? Shit. I'm really hard on myself. Okay. And sometimes I let that kind of like spill over to the vibe of the room. Yeah. Like, I'll fucking just tear down walls with me. I'm just like, I'm having a bad day.

You're having a fucking bad day now. Oh, fuck. Total, like, egomaniac, narcissistic bullshit, right? Oh, my goodness. But it's also because I'm bipolar and I really fuck myself up all the time. You know, like so it's just one of those things where I used to be like that. Now I'm, I think I'm pretty easy to work with. Yeah.

Constructive criticism is there for, like, a reason. And I started realizing just don't get so attached to certain things. It's for the better of like everything. You know what I mean? So I think I'm pretty easy to work with now. Now. I think always, actually. But I was just really aggressive about myself.

And I think that kind of like tore down the vibe of things. And I used to second guess myself. Now it's like when we're recording or whatever, writing a part, I love the imperfections. I want to hear something real. So like, I'll be like, that's good. And people like, no, no, no, I can clean it up. I'm like, that's good. You're just going to clean it up and be like,

I guess I should just go back to, no, stop wasting time. If you hear it and you love it, that's it. That's it. Why fucking beat your head against the wall, right? True. It helps us just curious because, I mean, I just see so many, like, personalities. Yeah. You know, like you and Keith and James and, I mean, I was, that was a little bit hard.

Like, because that's taking three alphas in a room together all the time. and I was the one that just was like well I need to be the alpha of bleeding through you know what I mean yeah and it was more like it was hard it was hard it was hard was there any created tension between you and Keith because you guys were both

I mean the year is kind of interesting like what like I mean he came in he came in while I was in throwdown still I was the only guitar player for a couple years I did a record call yesterday his time killed yes and I was the only guitar player on that And I was just kind of at the point where I'm like These bands like we need to have two guitar players

And Keith Wasn't really going to do Adamantium anymore Or I don't know if you did it anymore He might have been doing it But I was like dude like why don't you play in 18 Visions It was more just like we're on tour Throwdown together. I'm like hey just play in 18 visions And yeah

Yeah I mean I don't think there was any anything that was like Anamasi between it He's a really good songwriter Like he really is. Like he has a very good ear For like what he wants to do

He's good with structures I just think that like my creative thing at the time Like I was all about metal at that time dude Yeah I just started getting like You know the Swedish sound Just fucking knock my dick in the dirt And I'm just like

I love at the gates you fucks So I work at the gates In flames fucking just Let's do this right And I just think that that wasn't gonna be part of ATMVisions They didn't listen to that music at all I was like kind of like the musical outsider Yeah

It's crazy how you guys were all like in a weird way all in the same bands in like a short period of time all still have very different sounds so so interesting like it was good I always thought that was weird to me as well and I always thought that the and it wasn't just different sounds

it was like radically different sounds it was three different genres coming out of like the same group of people that's kind of crazy that's so yeah that's so nuts I mean eventually like you guys all did went off and did like your own bands and how you even went went away further. Yeah. But but still

it has that that thing. Yeah. Yeah. The special sauce. Yeah, that special sauce. That special sauce that I put on my on my shit, you know. I was listening to throwdowns and fucking throwers. All that shit, dude. It was awesome. It was special. It was really cool going to the East Coast back in those times. I remember the first time I went on tour

with Throwdown. It was 90. Fuck. 90, 99, maybe. Summer 99. Wow. Look at those dudes. 18 Visions is definitely the most handsome band from Orange County.

Handsome could be. Yeah, look at those dudes. There's studs. And you all started your own trends. It's weird. Every band started their own trend. Man. We all had some questionable hairstyles for sure.

But now it's normal. now it is normal okay okay let's go back real quick about the hair okay real quick about the hair cuts

we can talk about hair we can talk about hair now that I have no hair I didn't even that purpose brand I swear I get it guys

I get it thank God I'm fucking pretty okay I mean but obviously this is normal now but back then like what

where did all these bands get the style from James like for real like he was our hair He was our hairstylist. James got into James got in James and Javier.

They both went to hair school to be hairstylist. Wow. And they would cut our hairs and they would just, they would, yeah, they'd try new things and they were on the cutting edge of like what trends were like really good. Like, you know, fucking flat iron or hair and shit. I remember going to the East Coast for some of the 18 Visions. It's like we used to get that kind of hate. because of the way we looked.

And it was funny because, like, we were probably the most fierce motherfuckers you could ever start a fight with because of, like, calling us names. Like, you don't want to start a fight with, like, James Hart and me. Yeah. Or any of those dudes. Yeah. And whoever we, whatever, like, person we brought on tour with us, like, it's just, yeah, it was crazy back then. It was crazy. You guys are all brothers, huh?

Yeah, we were. Super close. Even though we probably had that created attention. You guys, if one person fought, you probably. Oh, absolutely. you have each other's backs all the time no matter what what what a time man dude for real holy moly and like you know i'll close off the uh 18 vision combo but uh have you better looked back on like you know sometimes you come you uh you come across these these websites and they have like the genre next to the band

in the record i've saw like the word dead court put on like you know uh yesterday is time killed yeah how crazy and this is 99 99 yeah that's it was heavy Yeah. Heavy. And you know, even you had your own style and you looked a certain way in the hairstyle, and James Hart is cutting your hair and shit. Yeah. And, like, I mean, called your F word.

Yeah. Like, it was still, like, above and beyond heavy. Yeah. People don't really understand how heavy that band is. Still, I mean, even compare it to, like, you know, this day, I still go back. Like, I'm, like, to bleeding through and, like, those records, I'm like, oh, my God, dude. I need, I need to step up. I still do that.

Well, you did. You stepped up. No. I try. I'm trying. You know, it's that, it's that creative part of your brain. You're totally. You fucking suck.

Yeah. But you don't. You're fucking great, man. Oh my goodness, dude. I mean, yeah, you guys fucking. We did it. You guys did it, man. Okay, no more 18 missions.

Yeah. And then. They wouldn't want me to talk about them anymore. Only because we got to get the history. Yeah, we got the good stuff out of the way. Yeah. Wait, dude, wait until the next episode. We'll go into the flat earth and the whole thing.

But now, but now we've got to be down up the foundation, you know. And it seems to, like with uh obviously there was created attention but however like i mean you've been you know it seems to you're hard-headed but that just what that helps you create bleeding through yeah and now i mean what how long you guys been in band like like almost 24 years 24 years yeah 24 years now holy shit you never did waver your sound it was always that we always had our we always had our base and it was always really hilarious to me when people would be like hey um yeah there's just more singing in it now i'm like dude we've literally like singing choruses like

kind of what we did. Yeah. Like before a lot of people did it. You know what I mean? Like I've even read interviews with like, with like event seven full where they're like, you know, those are friends of ours still.

And but they said like, dude, we started doing those things because of like bleeding through, you know? That's crazy to me. I mean, that was an interview from a long time ago, probably like 20 years ago.

So. That's a trip. But I mean, that's like, but yeah, dude. I mean, that's why it's always like one of those things.

And like, I always thought it was, you know, it went through a certain time of our bands kind of like that fork in the road moment where, you know, there's a lot of like, like, again, outside influences and labels and, you know, we all saw, we all saw events sevenfold take off, right? Those were our friends. We consider them our equals at the time. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden it's like, boom, like here we go. And it was like a tree was like right after that. And it was just like, holy fuck. So I think there was a lot of pressure for a lot of our bands to really like try to step up and maybe do something that wasn't there.

Wasn't us. So I always thought it was one thing I just remember telling my band like, because I heard some new 18 vision stuff at the moment. And I'm just like at that time. And I'm like, I never want to do something that completely our sound just changes. I just didn't. I told my band we're never doing something like this. This is their way. And it's good.

and you know, hopefully this fucking works for that. You know what I mean? But this isn't going to be our path. We're not going to be like all of a sudden we're trying to be on active rock radio. We're a fucking heavy band. We have melody. We have emotion and we are what we are. And let's always be what we are.

You know what I mean? That was just like the approach I had. And it's like we put out the truth. And the truth was like, you know, everyone said like, oh, this is like them trying to be this. And I'm like, dude, if you listen, how heavy is that record? Like, if you listen to that record, you're like, dude, this is the heaviest fucking record. You know what I mean? It just is the point we're like, heavy record.

Maybe the recording wasn't like where we wanted to be as a band. But like, you know, whatever. So anyway, then everybody after the truth was like we were writing declaration. And even my friends thought that we were going to put forth like a radio rock record. why? I don't know because that's what everybody was kind of doing. Even at that time like throw it out and started writing some more like radio stuff, which was I thought was great stuff.

Yeah. But they started like branching out and doing a little bit more like radio friendly type stuff, you know? Yeah. And I just listened to those, I listen to those bands and I listen to like the like I know what our label wanted. I know what people around us wanted. They wanted us to do the same thing to take that swing. And our friends thought that we were going to do that. And I just remember going in writing declaration and just being like, this is going to be a fucking black metal record.

And honestly, like, I listen to it. And it's like, it might not be your traditional like Norwegian or Scandinavian black metal, like whatever the fuck. But that's a black metal record. Like, that thing is the most, it's my favorite bleeding through record still. It just is so aggressive. And it was kind of like a fuck you. Like we are not going to be one of those bands. It works for them, not for us.

We're bleeding through. And we just want to remind you. guys that that's what we are. So stop fucking thinking we're going to do something different. That's like what that was. That's why I called the record declaration. That was our declaration to say basically this is what we are. Stop expecting us to try to be something we're not. And we're okay with that. Whether we crash and burn, whether nobody fucking likes it, whatever, this is what we're doing now. This is where we are. And the record sounds great. I mean, it was produced by Devin Townsend Towns. Yeah. Sound sounds awesome. Yeah. It's rare. It's surprisingly it's fair, but we can get a

record you hear oh it finally sounds like i want to sound yeah it's tough it's that's such a unique recording too i don't even know how we would like do that recording again what a legend you devons yeah devon was awesome there's some fucking shit holy fuck that dude i've never been around somebody that was just so invested in someone else's music really yeah like he like puts himself in every project he does like puts himself in it to the point where he almost like shares your stress and anxiety about it. Really? Weird, yeah.

But it's magnificent. That's a special guy right there. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, it's my favorite record over there. Six. It sounds awesome. Yep. I felt bad for bleeding through

because it always seemed like people were trying to make you something that you weren't, especially like a trust kill or like a label. You know, their part is waiting for you to drop, why don't you guys sound like Kill Switch? Exactly. That one sucked, dude. Yeah.

It's terrible. I think I told you, I don't know if I told you this story at Affliction, but when we gave Trust Kill, this love is murderous, we didn't hear back from them for a week. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, why, why haven't we heard back from the label about what they think about this record that they're putting like all of this like stuff into, right? And I remember calling the label and being like, hey, so what did you think? and he just goes it's not what I thought it was going to sound like and I'm all okay

what did you think it was going to sound like and they're like we thought it'd be a little bit more on like the kill switch engage like tip and I'm just like all right it's the biggest selling fucking record so fuck them

dude it's sold like a hundred and 25 thousand fucking copies that thing's insane it's crazy that's like wow cool that's a lot it's a lot and it was like oh why It should just sound like killed. I mean, maybe if it would have it would have been like 300,000.

Who fucking knows. That's a lot of records to do that. But that's just like, you know, I feel like there's a lot of moments in our band's career where we're, I feel like we were to the point where we have to, I just, I wanted to always just be us. We always wanted to just be us. We could have easily kind of transformed into like what other people wanted us to be, you know. But that's just not what I, that's not what we want. You guys always hit it your own way. Yeah.

What's that cover? So that's a pig heart. It's a pig heart. Because it looks, apparently it looks like, it looks the most like a human heart. And that's just like, that's also a steak knife that I bought on the way to the shoot. Where'd you get it? Probably like IKEA or something. Oh my goodness.

Yeah, for real. It's a great cover. Yeah, man. It's rare when. like you know like a like a white cover works yeah if you know white cover it's a special man i remember when like we were talking to the company that did the cover and they're like we want to do this white cover like a heart with like a knife through it with like blood and i'm just like white cover i'm like fuck that's kind of weird right and we just did it and it kind of worked so it's like

one of those things i kind of feel like just worked something just worked something's just fucking work man do great great record i mean yeah i mean you're fucking what two biggest songs are on on that record. Yeah. I mean, that record, it was, I always tried,

I always tried to say this, like, right time, right place. You know what I mean? Yeah. We didn't think anybody was gonna even like,

really, like, when portrait came out and people started listening to it, we're like, okay, we didn't think

anybody was even like it. It was just maybe, like, too aggressive, too metallic for, like, hard, because we were still

trying to impress, like, hardcore kids, really. Really, that's what we, because there really wasn't like a metalish

kind of, there was, but not a big sound, like a big group of people. So we didn't know if people were going to, like, be into this. And it was sort of, we put it out and we just were like, what's going to sell this record is our live show and the fact that we were going to be able to connect with people. And we did Oz Fest, and that was just it.

How was that? I mean, 04 Osfest was crazy. Hey, Jay, pull up that lineup? Yeah, 2004 Osfest. That was something to really, that I'm really proud that we, you're a part of. Slipknot headline the second stage, the hot topic stage.

Haypreed was a direct support. And what's crazy about this is like Lamb of God was right before Haypreyed and like they were still trying to carve out their whole deal. Really? Yeah. They crushed every day. But like they really weren't like

the behemoth, you know. I mean, because like look at now. Like now they would, I mean, arguably they might even play above slip knot. that's an argument for another time. Oh my goodness. I love both bands of death, but, but yeah,

like just to be a part of that, like, second stage, like the Atreu, God forbid, every time I die, darkest hour, devil driver, like,

Hey, you go back? That lineup is just like, dude, go to the far left. On Earth was on it. I think. Was on earth on the first one?

No, they weren't. Yes, they were. Yep. Unearth was on it. Like, and the thing is,

I talk about this all the time for those, for the bands that were on that. Like, it was like a capsule of time. Like that was such a groundbreaking Oz Fest because it was it was no longer like the I don't even

know bands from like that era it was no longer like the evanescences of the world. Yeah. It was like what's the heavy? What's the next thing? And it was like it was just. That's a pretty heavy. Fuck yeah.

Oh my goodness. I mean if you're this listening yeah, the see the second stage. Second stage, ripped, slip not, hate free, lamb and god

at tree you, every time I die. Lucuna coil, bloating through obviously, unearth, God forbid. And the main stage,

a black label society, super joint ritual, Timu Borgier, slayer, Jesus priest, Ozzy Osse born. What a fucking,

that is, that's insane. That was just weird because it was like a bunch of our bands that have never been in buses before. Oh my God.

And we all had to be in buses because the touring was insane. The drives were insane. You couldn't, you can't do it in a van. And I just remember, like, it was like metal summer camp, dude.

Yeah. It literally, it became to a point where like almost the shows were just like another part of it. It was just like, all right, we're going to roll up,

we're going to fucking barbecue, we're going to fuck around all day. We're just going to ride bikes and be idiots. Like literally it was idiots all day. I'd steal golf carts every day. I have these little fucking, like, 50-stroke little fucking,

like, motorcycles. I just cruise around. get in trouble all day. Like literally, I was just trying to like get in trouble. You have 20 minutes to play. After 20 minutes, you're fucking bored of shit

because you don't want to see any of these bands anymore after like fucking three weeks. You're like, okay, same set, same thing. Of course. It was fucking crazy, dude. That's a really special line of it to be a part of it, man. I really do think is special.

And I think it was something that like, I look at it and I'm just like, I'm so happy that we were a part of that. To go from Kuse Cafe to Ozfest. Yeah, and then we got to do it again in 06, and that was just even crazier. How was that year? That year was cool. That year was when we started hearing about suicide silence a lot.

Uh-oh. So it's probably sucks. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, 60s, I remember. I remember being on that and hearing about Job for a Cowboy and Suicide Silence a lot. That was, that was a time. And it was. And I think I loved the 04 year a little bit more.

Okay. I think it was just so raw. and just fucking awesome. There was too much expectations for 06. It wasn't fun. And what I mean, we heard about suicide sounds because then it was like,

the heat was turned up. Here's all these bands. We got to fucking get the shit going, right? That's so bizarre. That lineup is fucking great. I mean, you look at that. Atreou again, on earth,

we were one of the headliners of the second stage. But then you have a life once lost, strapping on lad, the red cord, full blown chaos, walls of Jericho, all that remains between the buried.

That's a fucking, wow. That's pretty stacky. Okay, so if you're OzFest, why don't you fucking do it again? Like, what are you waiting for? Yeah, it's true. All you need to do is get all of those bands and shit sells the fuck out. Like, yeah. Jesus.

Yep, that that's a pretty, uh, that's an intense lineup. Oh my goodness. Wow. How was the, just curious, more so like the 04 era. Like, what, like, what was it like the competition like? Was it like, did you have, you drive, you type of your company? of unhealthy but healthy competition. Some bands were different.

I think we were, I think the, I think the competition was on, starting in 04. That's, that's when it, I think we started to realize like, okay,

this is like, who's next? Who's the next band? I really started to feel it then. And then the next couple years after that, like, we still toured with a lot of those bands still, and it was,

it was, still fun, but I really, one of the biggest regrets I ever have of like being in a band and doing this like fucking gift that we get to do is taking part, not like actively, but accepting the stress that other people were putting on us of like competition. And yeah, well, this band, this band drew 537 people. Well, this band drew 539. So they should play after. And this band sold this.

many records and I'm just like holy fuck and I was all about it I got sucked into that and I was like a fucking trading it was like trading baseball cards dude I'm just like you know what I mean and it's like dude I'm so bummed that I got into that because it fucking ruined a lot of years for me did it really yeah man because you start looking at your friends as like fucking enemies yeah you know what I mean yeah and it it really starts to fuck with you man it just did yeah when we were at our peak the truth came out we did a tour sold out fucking tour, huge fucking rooms. Some nights, multiple nights at House of Blueses,

bleeding through every time I die between the buried in me a haste of day. That's an insane lineup. That would never fucking happen again, ever. Maybe now, because we're all older, and it's like, we're homies, we can do this. But, dude, that was like, that was... Every time I die is one of my favorite fucking bands.

a great band. Period. Period. Period. Period. End a story. Love that band. Love the dudes. Loved having them on that tour. But that's when just the whispers of snide shit talk. And it wasn't from them. It was from everyone. Yeah.

And it kind of caused this thing where we kind of knew it was on. It's on now. Like all of our bands are kind of like in this unknowing competition with each other to be like the biggest thing. Who should headline the tours? What kind of money we should get for this? That's the way that that that is the way the music industry fucking goes It is but to us but to us coming from like the underground scene where it used to not fucking matter That's what I wish I would offend it off and just have been happy for my bands my friends Band's success not see it as like a fucking threat

You know what I mean and I've talked to a lot of people in bands that feel the same way I do They never wanted to feel like that and they're not those type of people but they're that thought crept in their mind Once it creeps in and it fucking grabs you. You are grabbed and fucked. And a lot of relationships like aren't the same.

You know what I mean? That is true. It sucks. You know? I talked to like Trevor from on earth like a lot now and like you know we were never like the best of friends we all was like really good

but we know our bands are the same fucking size that creates do you know many issues that created? Like seriously. For no reason. Our bands loved each other. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it was always like

oh well we should play a little billion through and then we're like we should play it. Now it's like we're, we're trying to set something up in Texas right now. We're literally just going to flip every other night. So, because who fucking cares? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you get older.

You realize, yeah, who cares? Yeah. You know, it's funny. Like, like, you touch you on something like I realized, yeah, I mean, I mean, dude, like, early 2000s and the lineups were insane, like a local show. Yeah. There was like, and, like, no one really cared who, who was playing where. Yeah.

It was like, it bleeding through opened or played fourth or headlined or third on played second. No one cared. And it was just like, sometimes like, I don't know, Joe from Showcase, like, these lineups would be announced. Or you could get, it's either in the paper, you're like, what the fuck? Yeah. Like, this is, like, how do you cannot do that at all? I mean. Yeah, you can't.

You can't. The first full U.S. tour that we ever did was us every time I die in Norma Jean. And we just took sections where we headlined. I'm like, it's just so communist of us, but so it worked out really well. Like, it just was like, we all had the same. We all got the same. Yeah. I guess

But we were also like 20 years old In idiots And idiots And also not fucking relying on it for anything other than a good time Yeah You know I guess with With hindsight

I mean I mean Brandon now you have a You know You're a pillar in In a genre Help create basically bands You know

And I am one of them You know Now now that you had the hindsight, you know, what, is there a part in your career besides this, like that you, you wish you would have done differently? I mean, yeah, like, there's two things. One of the things I'm talking about.

I wish I wasn't so closed off to people. But I did struggle through, like, bipolar. I hid it from my band. You know what I mean? I didn't want it to ever. You serious? Yeah, I didn't want it to ever really be a crutch for me. I hit it from a lot of people.

Like I, the band is like the least of the amount of people, like the important people that I hit it from. But I just never in my life wanted it to be something that like I was like tagged with. I tried to run away from that. So the anxieties of things really made me really hard to deal with. And I wish I just would have been open with my struggles and allowed my band to like help me. Because I think that would have like helped me keep. relationships with people, be open to not, you know, just, just sort of being a little bit more like

outgoing. Like I was 100% in on shows, but like I'd go on tours and you wouldn't even fucking see me. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'd be so stressed out in anxiety because of my shit, I'd be playing video games until I go on stage or going to the gym. You know what I mean? Like I would just stay away. And so I feel like I missed out on a lot of like really good bonding time with a really, a lot of really good people that I respected and admired and looked up to because I was almost like afraid to be out in like public around people, you know? You know, I've spent time over the last like a lot of years like repairing a lot of friendships. Like, you know, when I saw you at fucking affliction, I beeline it for you and I'm like,

we're fucking hanging. You know what I mean? Appreciate that. That's pretty much what happened. Yeah. Yeah. What's up? I know you, you know me.

We love each other's band. We just never really were in a position to like hang out before and what a beautiful thing. You know what I mean? It was great and So I wish I would have like been a little bit more like open with like what I was dealing with Second thing we were offered not that we were never really one of those bands that was like like when I tell you about event sevenfold like I've known those guys for so long and They always wanted to be a fucking huge band you know I mean that was just like we're gonna fucking play arenas and they do it. Wow. You know what I mean? We never really had that mindset, but we were offered a lot of opportunities that probably would have like catapulted us to a point that we aren't at now, maybe a little bit more commercial. You know, a lot of discussions were like, you have the look,

you have the performance, you just need the sound. And a lot of people, we've had opportunities to sort of like take that swing and sell out, whatever the fuck you want to call it. And we didn't do it. And it's not like I have a regret about that, but I kind of was like, dude, like, what could have we have done if we would have allowed a little bit more outside influence for like our musical direction and like aesthetic, whatever, whatever. It just would have been fun to kind of see like where that went. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, I love, I don't have no regrets about, but that just kind of would have been kind of cool. Yeah. You know? Do you, do you take that as what maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe you,

wish you were more ambitious as opposed to be like this is like I'm I come up I come from the orange turn and hardcore scene that's it see ya I mean I was very ambitious but that was what I was ambitious about my thing was like I'm a real ass OG and I'm gonna fucking say that way until I fucking die I mean I still carry that around with I still feel that but just little part of me was like what if I would have like swallowed the red pill you know what I mean and then seeing like what could have happened but yeah I mean I mean, like I said, no regrets. But yeah, it was an ambition of being like something.

My ambition was 100% just trying to be 100% respected in myself. Yeah. You know? Yeah, you want to know that it was you. Yeah. You know. I also never wanted to look back and be like, damn, remember when we did that fucking thing and it just kind of like, you know what I mean?

And it fucking flopped. Jesus Christ. You would have had a fucking career. I mean, and I know so many bands that are like, you know, they run away from like certain records and that's fine. That's fine. You know? Sure. Oh, fuck.

What do you, I mean, what was that like? I mean, you were like, obviously you were talking about the avenge guys, but I mean, they seem like sweethearts. They're the best. I think I recall you talking about, you had a conversation with Matt, and I think they just signed with Warner. And he said, I think it was similar to what we're just talking about. like I you know he's he said a thought process he had and you're like I never thought that in my fucking life yeah I was working out with him at 24 out fitness he's like bro like I'm just got we got signed a Warner brother that's insane what you fucking for real like wow like insane

congratulations like holy fuck you did it and I remember him saying the contract was for like millions of dollars and just being like wow and it happened for them they fucking rip So yeah the thing it's just there they just had a mindset it special guys man special guys and I do I do attribute that mindset to like where like I said like being kind of excluded closed off from the rest of where our type of music was happening you know what I mean in the east coast and wherever you just had to have that ambition and that mindset like failure is not a fucking option we're like we're going to make it happen it's true it really is man yeah it's weird I mean Ambition that definitely goes, you know, a long way.

You know, I had that, and I'll lean up, I got it from you. Well, thank you. It's strange. You know, it's strange. Like, did you talk about how you hadn't, you had, you know, have the ambition to do this. But, like, I got my ambition to, for a suitoris that I got, you know, this. I see heavy sludge breakdowns in arenas. I did say that in my mind, but it was kind of, it seems naive and looking back at it seems

fucking dumb. Like, how, that's not possible. But, like, you know, say, keep the same music. But how do you get it up there? Yeah. I mean, we got, obviously, we got blessed with, you know, me and Mitch met, and that was just kind of it. Yeah, that was off to the racist. Okay, I have a question regarding suicide silence.

All right, let's go. What was the band Drexler, Drexel? Drexel, yes. What was Drexel? Before suicide silence? Drexel. Was that your deal? No, Drexel was a band from Riverside that had a close friend of ours, Jake.

He was a close friend of me and Mitch. Okay. And previous members of suicide sounds. You know, we have, like, your core friends when you're, like, you know, in that high school. And, like, uh, so Jake was a singer that we loved and respect. And he always had our backs. Uh, he passed away a few years ago. Fuck.

Um, but he was a close friend. He, he sang a song on the cleansing, but they were, they were sick. And their drummer was like a, I don't know the word, but he was like a shredders. Our old drummer was taking lessons from him. Yeah. He was fucking sick. But yeah, Drexel was like a. That's awesome.

I didn't know. if that was like you guys before that. I remember seeing a show at chain reaction of them playing once. But I remember Mitch was on stage and maybe just did like a couple songs or one song. Sure. I don't know. Yeah, Mitch sang in a band called Dying Dreams. I remember Dying Dreams.

So I'm pretty sure you guys play. Yeah, yeah. I play, you put your shows together. Yeah, dude. Well, I'll give you, I'll sell it this right now. So like this story of when we played it, So What? When, after COVID, you know, when COVID kind of hit, like, we were actually kind of like on our strife. of okay we're playing regular shows we're getting good offers you know the record's doing well

i feel like we're back cool so we're kind of in the swing of things and COVID hits and it's done and that whole time i was like i kind of you know thinking about not doing it for like a while because nothing was inspiring me to do it it just i was i was lost for inspiration there's a lot of things that happened during that time it was a loss for inspiration and i remember being at um the show that so wet festival and watching uh knocked loose and i remember after from knock loose off, Brian came off stage and he shook my hand. He's like, your brand for bleeding through. And I'm like, yeah, man.

He's like, hey, I'm Brian. I'm like, I know. And he's like, he said to me, he's like, you know, like, you're one of like my favorite, like bands ever. Like I wouldn't be doing this. And if it weren't for like your band. And I'm like, well, here's this. When I was losing inspiration to try to do this, I was listening to bands.

There was a few records that like I was listening to. And I'm like, and yours is one of them. So I'm like right back at you, dude. Like you made, you made it possible for this band to kind of come back. But another one of those records was become the hunter I started to fucking listen to that record And I'm like, dude This is fucking dark

I'm all I fucking love that record so much dude And I remember to listen that record so much And I'm like dude like we're we're doing this again Like we're gonna do it They're doing it We're doing it It was so sick That record's fucking amazing

It's amazing I that's life is So technically we're working right now We're basically stalkers This is crazy What a life, man. I know. Yeah.

Can I go to the bathroom? Sure. Can we pause for a second? Yeah, yeah. This is alive, is it? No. Okay, good. I don't fucking know, man.

Who cares? No pause. You're what? Pause is all good, man. Do it. I'm ready. I drink a beer. Dude, how sick has become the hunter.

Come on. It's a good one. It's a fucking banger, dude. It's a good one. It's a good one. It's a good one. On that record? Eddie did a good job.

Eddie, every. record he's slowly getting sicker. Takes time. It does. My thing with that record in him is that it was like a better representation of what I thought

Eddie's vocals can be. It wasn't just like the you know, this is why I still love about your band. It's not like a gutter roll fest. You know what I mean? Even though he is like the best at it. Sure. And it becomes, it's effortless for him, which is crazy. But

His voice is so much past that. And that record, I was just like, fuck, this is great. Okay, we're back. And we're back. Being straight edge, you don't realize that, like, when you drink beer, you have to piss, like, every fucking hour. So, speaking on the subject, you were, I was a plan to going into this. It's okay.

But, uh, so you were experienced until we were late 20s, right? I was straight edge for 20 years. That's insane. 13 to 33. 13 to 33. I was wrong. Yeah. 30s.

What was that first? whatever like that first drink and then and then why it was just one thing that like I just felt myself like not really kind of like being into sure and I'm like one of these people that like I'm not gonna fake something

it was like okay if I'm at a different place in my life which I was you know I was with a new like with my wife at the time or my wife now but you know she was never she didn't even know what straight edge was when we first met or what bleeding through is or anything right so it was like You know, I'm trying to explain the stuff to her.

And then after like a couple years, I'm like, you know, I'm just going to, you know, my life's different now. I just, you know, I'm going to have a drink. I think I got like pretty buzzed off like half of like, like, Sapporo. Half you're like, what? I'm like, whoa, this is like weird, right? What's you feel? What's that? What's you feel?

It was just like a like, you know, lightheaded kind of like, okay, I'm good. I feel good. This is weird. I'm in love. Yeah. some of the best times and honestly thank God I was straight-edge for a long time because I look back at our touring career I'm like fuck if we weren't like that dude we would have been fucked up

Is there some personalities that just can't drink when they're young dude I'm very convinced by that you might be one of those personalities I definitely am I would I would have just been a nightmare Because especially at the time when I wasn't didn't really have a grip on like You know my mental issues and the band didn't know about that Like if I was like drinking and stuff like that just making it worse It's like, oh my God, that would do a nightmare. Oh, my goodness, dude.

Yeah, you would, you would. And singers already suck to be around. So, I mean, that was, yeah, we do, man. We do. That would have fucking sucked even more, man. Oh, my goodness. Did you, uh, did you lose any friends? Yeah.

Oh, fuck, yeah, dude. No, I don't think because of that. I lost friends right before that because of other reasons. Sure. Personal reasons in my life. But, uh, yeah, they were all straight edge and I, you know, I've heard, you know, back then I heard what they had to say in them. It's like, thought it was funny.

It's funny. It's funny. I haven't fucking done. You know, 30s, 40s. I'm like, dude, like, you live your life, I live mine. Stop worrying about me. I'm good. You know, Gibo Choa.

Yeah, so he, you know, because me and Mitch sold out at the same time. Like, 21. He turned 21. He sold out first. I'm like, it's my turn. Yeah. I got one year, baby. Yeah.

I wasn't the first one. And you know, guys like that, you know, close friends were always very, you know, I don't want to say supportive, but just still loved you and accepted you. I'm like, you know, hey, you're not a piece of shit. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. And we still hang out. I think that me selling out was more celebrated than anything else.

It was just like, after that, like, when I go around and play like shows or C bands, bands are come in town and they'd be like, I heard you smoke weed or I heard you drink now. I'm like, yeah. And they're like, we're doing this. Like, we've waited so long for this. What the fuck? I remember Darkest Hour, right? We played a show at Darkest Hour.

I'm like, oh, in like, 2014. And they ran up to me as soon as we showed up to the venue that we're playing with them. And they're like, is it true? And I'm just like, what is what true? And they're like, you're not straight to anymore? I'm like, no. And they're like, we need this. Let's go.

Just go to our bus right now. We need this. We need this right now. We've been waiting for this for such a long. Because, you know, that other than, I think, Darkest Hour and Haypreed are the two bands that we've toured with the most probably as a band. Both heavy. Hager.

Heybred used to be a heavy drinking band. They're pretty tame now. Yeah, of course. They're good. They're good. I'm pretty sure back in the day. Back in the day, it was a little, little fucking sketchy. I got to say, man, like, just, obviously we just, we literally hung out for the first time like a month ago.

Yeah. And it was, you know, it's one of those moments, you know, I get better with age where I kind of like to stop the moment and time. You're like, this is my life right now. Yeah. I'm drinking with brandy and petty. Yeah. It's like, what a fuck? It was so cool.

I mean, we were drinking champagne. Yeah. It was so cool, man. You know, could that conversation happen if we weren't drinking? I don't know. I think it could have, but it wouldn't have been as fun. It was fun. It was fun, dude.

I mean, you get older, obviously. You know how to be. You just let it go a little bit. You know what I mean? Yeah, a little bit more open, at least for me, I know that every substance will affect another person so differently. And that's what I come to realize, whether it be weed or alcohol. or straight it, I mean, you name it. Like, it affects people, each person so differently.

For me, alcohol, I drink it. I like to think that I am responsible. I find my balance. And like, you know, I'll not drink all week. And then when I'm out to a show, I see, you know, I see Brandon Shepetti. Yeah. We're going to drink champagne. Yeah.

And we're going to have a good time. I go up into the office or I go up in one of the offices and I look at one of the, the refrigerator. I'm like, oh, there's champagne. We'll just drink this. That's fun. What a great time. That's one of the moments of my life

for like, this is my life, and I'm fucking stoked. You know what? I find myself saying that a lot more now, and I'm so glad that I do. Like, I really take everything in. You should, yeah. We are so, like, even just being here right now

and you doing this, it's like, look at your life. Like, this is fucking amazing. Like, people would kill for this. Like, playing a show still. Like, what an honor it is. Like, it really is. Like, and I didn't see that for a long time. You know what I mean?

And I think a lot of bands, never actually really see it that way anymore because they get caught in the fucking circle of whatever the fuck they're going through. But like every night that we play a show, I just take it in and I try to talk to my band and like really just be like,

look at what we get to do. Like look at this. Tonight it's like our night. Yeah. Like we are the fucking kings of the fucking castle. And that castle might be a fucking 300 cap really shitty club, but we're the fucking kings of this right now.

Like right now, like we are at the top of what exactly we want to do right now. And then, and how, and how the fuck could it, like, how could you not be into it at that point? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Just a great opportunity all the time. Yep. Well, speaking of that, like, can we talk about us being jaded? Sure.

So, when the first, I decided, first of all, I had to start a podcast to hang out with you. So, okay, so, okay, so,

so there's that. Let's just get the honesty out. Okay, get it. One of the first people I hit up, to be on this thing, was Brandon and he didn't reply

to my Instagram DM way too cool for you dude What the fuck were you doing? I was heartbroken I mean well fuck this guy Was that during COVID? Was that during COVID? It was yeah

Yeah it was I got weird I got very like I'm not saying this is like the reason but I probably just didn't even like Sure I didn't even like To me it was like Bleeding through's done

everything's done. Like, I was tripping. You know what I mean? And you had a double whammy because, I mean, you're an owner and a founder of Rise Above Fitness. Yes. And that must have been like a double whammy for you because you lose, basically essentially you lose the band and your gym at the same time.

I lose the two things that I love. And that are my jobs. That sucks, dude. And it sucks. So I was in a really weird spot. So when people were like hitting me up to do things like that, like I just wasn't even like acknowledging it. Man.

I wish I would have. But, I mean, things happened for a reason. This is probably a way cool. interview now it is not now it is you know what's that because obviously all we have is stories to watch and see but like you know we see like the horror stories of like you know

like a gym owner I'm seeing an interview and like my gym shooting down I'm what do what do what was that what is that really like I remember when it first happened it's almost like I didn't feel like it was real I'm like what do you mean they're telling us to like leave and like shut our doors until like further

notice like what what and then it was kind of like this thing where I almost like didn't take it seriously. And I was like, all right, well, whatever, I guess we don't need to go to work.

I'm fucking burnt the fuck out. So who cares? And at the time, I was really burnt out on it. Yeah. But to see, like, all the hard work

be just, like, shut down. I was just like, I can't accept this. So we shut down for like a little bit, and then I stayed open speakeasy style.

Like, I just was like, okay, I'm not going to promote we're open, but I'm going to reach out to members and say, if you want to come here, We have certain safety protocols.

You got to follow them. These are the rules here. And we maintain saying open. But we weren't able to operate how we normally operate. And I lost like, you know, 50% of my like business, you know? And so that's not just going to come back overnight. Like that's like, it's still like a grind. Really?

Yeah. I mean, essentially, I mean, how long was the gym open until you guys got shut down? Well, we stayed open at first like right away. We're like, we're just like, we're going to stay open until they shut us down. So then they showed us to. down that I think we were close for about a month. But during that month, it was like, the amount of memberships cancellations. Like, people were freaking out trying to hold on to whatever they could.

You know what I mean? So that's what really, like, killed us. That's all that needed. It could have been shut down for, like, a week and we would have been fucked. You know, and it just, but it's just life presents these things to you. And you're either going to be a hard motherfucker and take care of yourself and, like, get through. Or you're not. Like, yeah.

Like, really, like, life is. that simple. You're going to fight through adversity and you're going to fight for what's yours. And I think that I learned that through music of having like this fucking wave of like everything with your band. Like, are we done? No, we're not. Are we done? Or no, we're not. Do people care? People care. Like, do people still care? It's like if you're, if you don't know how to ride that wave, you just got to get off your board. And I feel like for me, I learned how to like persevere through like the shutdown of like the fitness world and still figure out a way to like, like, like build the company during that time.

And because I'm like, I'm not quitting on this. Like forget it. Like I put so much into this. Like no way. And you've been so independent. It's like you're, I mean, almost your whole life. Yeah, pretty much. You know?

To me, it's like goes hand in hand with like music. Yeah. I feel like it was my mental release before I could go on stage and really grasp the fact that I'm in like at a tour. Yeah. And like I have to be this person. And it was just, it's just really walked hand in hand. When did you open the gym and why?

Um, I think like around like 2009, 2010, I was like at a point where I think I was done with bleeding through. I think I was just like, that was such a weird time where like the older bands like us were kind of just being like forgotten about. And it was like really hard to keep doing it. And even though I felt like we were putting out rad music, I feel like people just didn't give a fuck. Right. And it was almost like we talk about the waves. And I felt like for me, I'm like maybe this wave is a little bit too like heavy and I need to just jump off.

and the stress was there and I'm just like fuck so I'm like what am I going to do like after bleeding through I need to start thinking of that if I'm thinking this way about bleeding through and trust me like I look back and I love the fact that that led me to my gym

but I hate the fact that I ever thought that way about my band that I was done I'll never be done with it ever like I was just that willing I was that willing and that fucked up to like just do that so um I was like well I want to build like a gym culture

like culture like play heavy music like people like me like go and work out and like people that ask me for like fitness advice just on the road and and i was every tour we went on i'd do like workouts in the parking lots and have bands that were on the tour with us like workout with me and then they would talk to me about what they could do at home to stay in shape and i saw actually like impacting like people's lives and i'd see him next time on tour they'd be like in shape like oh thanks man i'm like dude there's something here and like it's i'm getting such good like i feel so good about this right like this is like my next calling So in like 2000 and at that time like I was interning under a trainer just to kind of learn stuff for my own personal knowledge.

And then about 2009, I'm like, I think I'm going to do this. And so that kind of started when I was home, I started like training people built a clientele. And then around like 2011, I had this opportunity to, you know, get a gym. I had a friend of mine who bought a gym from my old trainer and was like, would you be willing to buy this like pennies of the dollar and take over this operation? like, dude, this is my chance. I got to do it. And it sucked. And it's like, we had to drop off this

parkway drive tour in Australia. I'm like, and I told my band. And that's really, yeah. And that's really what kind of did it. Holy fucking molly. I know. It was like the like the venues were like 10,000 cap places. Holy.

And it was like, it was one of those things where you guys did one over there. You know, you know how it is. It's insane. What a move, man. And I had my meeting schedules, my meeting time. And when I could take over the lease and when I could stop start operating the business as Rise of Fitness, my own fucking gym, was right smack dab of when I was going to be in Australia. So I'm like, I told my band that and they were not happy. And that was kind of

like the beginning of like when we started like, okay, maybe we'll just operate this band on a part-time basis. And we did that for a couple of years. And I'm like, I don't like operating on a part-time basis. But I had to take that step. And the band was bummed on me. And I get it. Wow. But it's funny because last time I saw Parkway Drive, they were so like not into seeing me. And I'm just like, don't blame me. Like, you guys are massive. Like, what happened, though, is like, we dropped off the tour and then the other band dropped off the tour. And so they had to postpone the tour.

And I feel like they didn't drop off because of us, just something. And I feel like it kind of like got, you know, I feel like maybe they blamed us for that. That is, that's a brandy. That's a big move, man. Yeah. But I'm also one of these things that were like, was that tour really going to make us fucking megastars? No. No.

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. They're there for Parkway Drive. They're not there for us. It's, it's tough, man. You get put into these, like, decisions in your life

where you've got to make some hard decisions, man. I mean, for you, I can only imagine that was probably pretty tough to make. That was a gut-wrenching decision. Because I'm like, Australia. We fucking love it there.

It's one of our favorite places to play. With the biggest band in Australia. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it was totally them, like, back in 2005, we went to Australia for the first time

I did a headliner. And Parkway, it was our first thing. was our direct support and it was their first full Australian tour and that was like their gift back to us and we just said nah

I know I felt so bad I love those dudes it happens dude don't hate me anymore man we're good you guys are fucking great fucking happen it sucks do like that throughout your I mean we have especially we were talking like over 20 year career that you just there's decisions come up dude and they're fucking tough and they're damn near impossible to make you have no one to call

to fucking help you yeah it was it was just one of those moments where I'm like I could possibly set myself up for the next career of my life, or I could do this tour and just still try to do bleeding through and grind it out like that. Mm-hmm. You know? I mean, and yeah, I mean, what, this is 2011?

Yeah. So you build up like your gym and clientele for nine years. Yeah. You know, that's a long time, man. Well, no, I mean, it's going into it. Let's see. Oh, for, for COVID. Yeah.

You know? And the COVID years kind of erased a year or so, like whatever, but, you know, we fucking made it. I'm just stoked that we fucking made it. Like that's great. I'm glad. Yeah. And we just have such great clientele.

And I think that we really make an impact in the community. And I think that's the reason why we stuck there. It's different. It's not like any gym. Like there's a lot of gyms that play like, you know, you go into and you hear like fucking heavy music and stuff. But it doesn't have like the authentic vibe. Oh, yeah, of course.

You know what I think the authenticity of it is really what keeps it like going. Yeah. You know. Yeah. I got excited when I heard man, at Brandon plays like, fucking heavy shit in there, dude. I want to see it. I want to hear it.

It's fucking hilarious. I mean, I have clients that are, like, in their mid-60s, and, like, they'll come in and, like, suicide silence is playing. Oh, my goodness. That's fucking nuts. And you know what? They've heard it. They've heard stuff like that for so long that they don't even, like, bat and eye it anymore. They actually start listening to it. They're like, okay, this song's kind of

cool. Oh, my goodness. But it's like, you know, just like, well, like, I don't know. Chelsea Grinn will come on. They're like, well, that's kind of, like, that's kind of aggressive. this is okay nice nice some one of my clients said that uh

he actually said it because he saw the mean but I thought it was great from him he's like if cocaine was a band it would be Lorna Shore nice I'm like a 67 year old client of mine and told said that to me and I'm like wow first off you know who Lorna Shore is

of course secondly the whole statement is just great to me and I'm like third you kind of have a point yeah kind of is. It's kind of insane to see how far the heavy music genre has come.

Totally. And you've seen so many, like, eras. Yeah. You've probably seen bands get massive, go away. Oh, there's so many. You've seen like the styles change, you know? I mean, from, I mean, you're kind of the person to ask about this, but I'm going to let this fly off my brain.

But what if you've seen that has, in a band, that really has that lasting effect? What do I? What have I seen in a band? Yeah. Like a current band? Both. I guess a band could be your air or a band now.

Like you just has that like, these guys would be around. And they're just connecting with people. It's like, what do they have? Well, I think the band that I feel like connects with the audience so much. And I think that a reason why they're so big and so at a forefront is Lamb of God.

Like that band got where they are because of the connection. Like, you know what I mean? Like I remember seeing them. My last tour with 18 visions, we toured with Mushroomhead. Mushroomhead, Lamb of God, 18 visions. And I remember watching Lamb of God. I remember watching Lamb of God, New American Gospel was the record they were touring off of this. It was a long time ago.

And I remember seeing them play and just being like, Span gets it. They got it. Like I just remember seeing like they have it. Like Randy connects with these just like creatures. They hate to call people creatures, but creatures. preachers. You know what I mean? Like,

what's up? Motherfuckers. We're here to fucking knock your dick in the dirt and shit like that. And that was just like, I would just see that. I'm like, fucking genius.

This band's going to be massive. And I knew he was going to last because he had that connection. He was authentic. Authentic. It was authentic. As far as bands now, if you want me to give you like a thing now,

I can honestly say Lauren Shor is going to stay. Same. Yeah. That's sick. They just have like a vibe. like that dude like when I saw them play your shit like with you guys in LA

first time I ever saw him play and I just remember like seeing that dude walk on stage like the singer walk on stage and just being like he just has the presence yeah that's that's it like it's he doesn't have to move around a lot he doesn't have to do crazy shit like he just he has like the presence and the band has that vibe

and so I'm like that's not going to go away and they're going to be that band that can fucking write like a straight up indie record and people are gonna be like genius genius record it's a fucking genius record guys and then when we do it all they're fucking shot sellouts assault all that we're the same thing you fucks

they just want to be a new metal band oh my goodness your your answer is yes we do but yeah they do you do got something it's funny I try it so hard not to be a dad and like don't don't don't do this don't do that yeah but I mean uh yeah

hopefully bands out there are making their own decisions, which I think, I think we'll probably learn the hard way. You got to make your own decisions. Ultimately, it's your ban and your decision. Like, it's just, like I said, like, there's that time where I talked about,

like, fucking years of, like, not befriending bands because of, like, this stupid competition bullshit that, like, people cared about that wasn't us. For real. Labels, fucking managers, agents, and so like that. And I'm not faulting them.

That was the time. They were doing their job. but what the golden era of like our type of music was totally like tainted by like the behind the scenes like greed in that in my mind that's like what it was it was it was just fucking greed you know there's a lot of people that came from worlds where we did not have shit and all of a sudden were like I mean I look back at some of the guarantees we made at shows and I'm like I laugh I'm like are you fucking kidding me yeah like how why you know what I mean yeah but it was just greed like that's straight up what it was. And I knew when that started happening, then I'm like, shit's going to get

fucking weird for a long time. Wow. Yeah. It's so unfortunate, that's how it's how it has to be. God, man. And it's still, it's still like that. I just don't, I just don't, I just don't have the patience for it. Like, when we talk to bands and offer them certain things, if, if they even come back with like a, I mean, you can come back and negotiate, but if you come back with like some sort of statistic that I'm supposed to care about, I'm not, I don't even want to play with you anymore. Yeah. Who gives a fuck.

Yeah. We've played a lot of venues where one time we play and there'd be 900 people. Next time we play, there's 300 people. What rhyme or reason? Who fucking knows? And then next time we go back to there's 900 people again. So when people try to put like venue stuff in front of me like, well, this band did this and that and you guys did this.

And it's like, I don't care. That means nothing. This band's new record sold this. Great. No one cares about new songs. They don't. They like them. I love it's like

It's like I get it It's like when that stat gets brought to me I'm always like you have a new record great But you've been a band for 24 years It's like ACDC have a new record Do you really care about that? Of course you're going to listen to it But when you go to the show

Do you really want to hear those songs? Not really You want back in black hell's bells You want that shit right Yeah of course And we understand that We play new shit but our shit's old That's what people want to hear

And we still love those fucking songs Do you find when we get older like those older songs have like a new meaning and like you actually get more you get a re-invigorated stokeness i i think so i think so you kind of like put yourself back and almost get a different interpretation of what the song kind of means to you it's weird huh it's weird yeah age man bleeding through man wow shout out man that's sick i look back at like some of those pictures and though and i'm just like fuck man we were so young hold you there hmm 22

Still a great edge Fucking edge I actually If you focus on my hand Go a little bit more I probably have Is that a bracelet Or do I have an X?

You got No I don't have an X I wouldn't have worn an X Damn Brandon well I got I gotta tell you man Just thank you for everything That that you've done

For For heavy music man I mean you've done so much for I mean so so many bands You're welcome It's crazy It's been you know, that's my life's, that's the best thing in my life.

You know, it really is. And actually, knowing you now, you are, you know, you're you. And I mean, without knowing, I kind of, I guess, got inspired by that and took that. And now I'm doing, I'm doing my own thing with it. But yeah, dude, it's crazy to finally, you know, me, you would hang out with you. Yeah, for sure. And hear, and hear your story. And I'm drinking with Brandon, the singer of bleeding.

Get, get fucked, you fucks. Dude, fuck yeah, dude. And also, Brandon, the, I'm not sure you would call, people call them different, but either people call it an EP, some people call it a single, but you have more songs on it, but, but those new, new three songs are, yeah, the EP, I guess you put an EP, yeah. Thank you, man.

We have a new single called War Time that's coming out, April 21st. April 21st. Yeah, bro. Well, this will be out two days before that. Oh, that's fucking perfect. Ooh, I told you, man, we've time that shit. Timed it perfectly, good.

We were dropping. I mean, we'd probably have a headline. We'd sick. That's awesome. Fuck yeah, dude. Brandon, but I am honored to finally know you. Dude, we're BFFs now, man. You're not going to hear me.

And I'm going to go to me. My friend, same, man. Cool, man. Brandon, love you, man. Love you, too. Appreciate you. And until next time, man. And there will be next time.

They will, man. There better be. All right, everyone. That's it. Peace. Later.