Garza Podcast - 78 - WHITECHAPEL: The First Wave of Deathcore, Myspace Days & Tennessee Metal Scene

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Garza sits down with Phil Bozeman & Alex Wade from Tennessee deathcore band Whitechapel. https://www.whitechapelband.com SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! TIME CODES: 00:00 - The Deathcore Pig Squeal, Jonny Davy (Job For a Cowboy), Ross Sewage (Exhumed) 01:52 - Being Part of the First Wave of Deathcore w/ Suicide Silence, Despised Icon, Job for a Cowboy, All Shall Perish; MySpace Days 07:14 - New Generations of Heavy Bands 09:52 - Knoxville, Tennessee Metal Scene 13:14 - What Happened to Krank Amps w/ Dimebag? 15:14 - 2006 MySpace Era 19:35 - When Job For a Cowboy Went Viral, New Viral Moments & Lorna Shore 21:45 - Early Days of Deathcore, Not Being Respected Touring w/ Gwar, Trivium & Hatebreed 25:36 - Phil’s Favorite New Vocalists of Today 27:02 - Supporting Each Other, Ego, Growing Older & Wiser 32:42 - Garza Didn’t Listen to Whitechapel & Working w/ Chino Moreno on “Reprogrammed to Hate” (A New Era of Corruption) 35:15 - Our Endless War 39:14 - Having Three Guitar Players 42:22 - New Whitechapel, Album Trilogies, Future Return to Early Heavy!? 46:04 - Phil is Drawn to the Darkness, Faces of Death & Being Desensitized 51:40 - The Valley & Kin 56:27 - Phil Bozeman Performing at Mitch Lucker’s Memorial Show 01:04:13 - When Phil Was Ill & Not Doing Well, Going Cold Turkey

As, you know, one of those younger death core bands in the first wave, we were, like, trying to struggle to make our way through, like, the real metal industry. You know what I'm saying? There's, like, this bubbling up time, and we should have tore together. We really didn't capitalize or really hone in on that first wave when, like, we were the band that should have been torn together. Use EMG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. Head over to EMGPickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off. And then once you write the heaviest song of all time, head over to distroKid.com slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms. And now to the heaviest podcast of all time.

When did like the pig voice become cool? It's a weird. It's a good question. I mean, I think it we, I think it's Johnny. Johnny from Job. I mean, that's the one that, baby. Yeah, he's the one that like brought it to. I guess like more

A quote unquote pig squeal More ears I guess You know what I mean Yeah, it's like I mean it's been going on for Even before that I mean Ross Ross like we were talking about I mean he's been doing that for

I mean you listen to Gore metal by Zoom Do that record man Yeah it's so that I think Casket Crusher come on yeah That yeah I love the sound of that And I mean I love like Matt Harvey's

Matt Harvey's like high-pitched stuff is just like so menacing sounding to me. Yeah, dude. I mean, yeah, Johnny and and Ross Seulage dude. I mean, shout out. Oh, geez. No one talks about exhumed and impaled and impelled and listened to those vocals. Yeah. You know?

And first of all, got to lay down the foundation. You, the people have spoken. White Chapel is here. Yeah. You guys are the most requested band. Wow. Damn. Yeah.

Well, thank you. Thank you to those who requested. We're finally here. It's crazy. So we have listened. Awesome. Oh, my goodness. Well, I mean...

We're stuck to be here, man. Yeah, I mean, we've been friends for a long, long time. Got a long history with the suicide boys, so... It's crazy, man. Years has flew by. Yeah. And that we are... I mean, Whitechap, you guys are part of, like, a small handful of bands of the first wave.

of what, I guess, what someone coined death corps. You, I mean, you are a part, I mean, I'm trying not to say we, but it's just like that that first wave. I agree. You know, I mean, who else, I mean, who else do you think was what was a part of that, like, first wave? All shall perish. Yes.

I mean, despised icon, I consider them, like, the, like, pretty much the. There's a band that people always bring up. Like, I always say despise was, but there's a ban from like 99 or something. I forgot the name of them, but like they considered them the first deathcore band or whatever, but despised icon, they're the godfathers to me. I mean, they are, huh? They're like the, they were like the first, like, big, uh, death core band, you know, like they were the first one death metal and hardcore. Yeah. You know.

Because, I mean, that it was, because I mean, they were super death metal, but they also had, you know, their slam parts too. so yeah I mean they're they're the they're the band that started it to me you're right yeah yeah I think if they came out year 2000 I J you might you might want to check it out a timestant I want to see 2000 in 2000 gone I'm going to my head a thousand one could be wrong I think it's before that it says okay yeah wiki says oh too I think it's they started earlier than that we got to ask uh Alex and spies to be yeah they are they really are huh yeah it's like without that band and we probably wouldn't even meet here yeah yeah I mean I know for me personally when I first started getting into like deathcore and stuff it was

honestly you guys you guys and job for a cowboy despised icon all shall perish uh through the eyes of the dead I don't even know if you know back then they were doing deathcore and it wasn't even called that but you know it was still like very death metal-influenced kind of metalcore kind of stuff you know yeah so i mean but like it was all that like my space era you know yeah because i mean i i uh i was always like a big death metal head like i just grew up listening to like you know i guess you can call it true death metal you know like uh cannibal suffocation uh exhumed impaled aborted stuff like that and then uh but when i discovered like hardcore and like uh things like that like like the slam you know like break because you know hardcore is known for like the

breakdown stuff and that and like metal core and uh yeah then we uh yeah then i found uh destruction of a statue the uh first uh first uh i guess like is like the live music video you guys did it uh showcase yeah and i was like yes that's that's the sound right there like just just heavy just like beat like super breakdown like but also like death metal. Yeah. And I was just like what is that? Like what what I've never, no one's ever done this before, you know, like this, uh, you know, like the death metal sound, but with just like the slam stuff.

And, uh, yeah, I mean, that's kind of, I remember where it's starting. I mean, sure, there's probably bands that have done it before. I don't know, maybe, but like there's always those bands that bring it to like light. And you guys were one of them, Jaws. and you guys despised icon I mean I guess I'll never it's really weird because like honestly we I mean we were directly influenced by suicide silence like when we started this band that's all the shit we were jamming you know like we wanted to be y'all that's straight up like when we started this band but then we ended up like we started the band and we you know just kind of went through things and then we ended up being included as like one of the OGs along with you all. So I find that really interesting that like, you know, we were absolutely influenced by our death core sound, you know,

because we were listening to Job and suicide. We were like, we got to sound like that. Because at the time, it was just the heaviest shit that existed. And that's all we wanted to do is just make the heaviest music possible. And I think, you know, that's where the new generation of deathcore is coming along. You know, I think bands like Lorna, kids hear that now, and that is the heaviest thing that exists currently. So kids freak out about that because that's,

if you want to listen to the heaviest fucking shit in existence, that's what you're going to listen to, you know? And I feel like that's what all the kids were doing to our bands when we first started, you know. It's so wild, honed, it'd be like in like the other side of that now. Yeah. It's like, wow, there's like a whole new wave. Yeah.

But there's, I mean... It's all generational, you know. It all comes in cycles. And 10 years from now, there's going to be another. band that comes up, you know, just like Lorna just did. Sure. Yeah. And then they'll be like oh, we'll be like, I'm old now. Yeah, God, we'll be old as

dirt. Yeah, we'll be old as dirt. Oh my goodness, dude. Let's go see those those grandpies and chapel and siwi. I was about saying, because us and you guys, I mean, we're on the other side of 30. I mean, you know, we're pushing it. We're getting there. I mean, and like,

40. Yeah, yeah, I was about to say, I mean, it's weird. The hell, man, the guy's a cannibal. they give us hope, you know, fucking. They're still out there crushing shit. Yeah. Yeah. And they're, I mean, I'm pretty sure.

Age is just a number, you know. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're in, I think they're in their 50s now. I think at least late 40s. At least. At least. I want to say George is 52. Yeah.

You might want to, that, that trick that. George, Corp Gunner Fisher, 52. Gun in my head. Gun in the head. Yeah. I think, I think you're right. Oh. Yeah, damn.

Presented by a monster. Yeah, shout out, George. Coffine, dude. Brain's working. Yeah, it's fine. And he headbanks hard and all of us. Yeah, that's true. I look at him, like, I...

He's a machine. Yeah, he's, like, one of those, like, old school, just, like, raw power guys. Just, like, almost like farm boy, you know, kind of shit. You know, just, like, he's just, there's no, there's no tricks to him. It's just all just brute force. Yeah. And that's just how I see. George. I mean, he's, because

Cannibal, as far as like the death metal scene goes or whatever, they're like the top of the mountain. Like, they are the band. Like, they are the poster boys of death metal. And like, and then, you know, it kind of goes down from there to me. But, you know, like, supos up there, like the big

bands from death metal is, you know, like cannibals, suffocation, uh, morbid angel. Some people say, uh, fuck that piece, that picture is insane. I'm sorry, We are looking at this TV of pictures of George. And, you know, you could say like obituary and, you know, bands like that.

D-Side? Yeah, D-A-Side. I mean, you know, just anything Glenn Bitten's been a part of. Yeah, just all that, I don't know, there's a lot of Florida. A lot of Florida death metal was like the 90s pretty much, you know, like the D-A-Side, Cannibal Corps, Haiti, Hatt Eternal, shit like that. And you guys are from Knoxville. You know, like, what's like, like, what was, like, the heavy scene like in, like, like, out there?

Radio Rock. That's, I mean, I don't want to be, like, a stereotypical guy, but that's what, that's what I think. I mean, like, as far as, like, heavy music goes, yeah, there was like, but, like, as far as, like, what people were, what dominated that space, like, you know, you just, like, radio rock, you know, like, that was. Like, what the shows were, like, when we, like, there weren't a ton of metal shows when we were coming up. Like the only metal shows that were happening were like local metal shows. There weren't like a ton of traveling artists coming into Knoxville. Like, yeah. So.

So it's so at Whitechap was coming up and trying to play a show. I mean, what? I mean, were there bands for you guys to play with or? Yeah, I mean, you know, like we were playing with other local bands that, you know, kind of had a similar sound. Hell, we were even playing. We'd play with pop punk bands and hardcore bands and stuff, which was cool. And I think that's yet, you know, back then, you know,

It wasn't weird for metal bands and, like, set your goals to play a show together. You got you're killing her right there. Yeah, there's the rec center, man. The 06 rec center. And that's where it all started. That's when you, what I'm doing right now is exactly what a vocalist does when they don't know what to do. They just walk back and forth. They walk back and forth.

That's like a nervous thing that vocalists do. Yeah. And, like, I, you know. The guitar crossover. Oh, what are you guys doing? That's a great question. That's a great question. That's Cagle.

That's Cagle, huh? Wow. Yeah, when he played guitar. Before he had his wreck, yeah. Yeah, and Brandon played on the first record, right? Yes. Yeah. Wow.

Would you consider Brandon one of the founders? Oh, for sure, yeah. Okay. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you know, sadly, he had his wreck literally two weeks before we went on our very first tour ever. So, Zach has been with us since our very first tour. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, Kegel's day.

definitely there when the band was formed. You know, we used to do all the pre-pro, do all the early writing in his mom's basement. So, he's definitely OG Chapel. Yeah, I mean, he's also helped, I mean, to develop, like, your live sound. Yeah, I mean, it's, for people that, that don't know. If you've ever seen us live and you think the sound is crushing, that guy is the reason for it, you know. You know what I just remembered, though, the, going back to when you said shows that, uh, that we would maybe do, uh, in, Knoxville or whatever. I remember the first show that we ever got offered to do for a band that

was like a national act was, remember that band, Invocations of Nehek or whatever? What would a band name? Yeah. Oh my goodness. They were like... That's some early 2000s metalcore. Yeah, they, that was like one of the first shows that we ever got offered. And I don't think we ended up doing it. I'm pretty sure it was just like an offer. Yeah. Our first show ever was in Nashville with Amur. Yeah. Amir was on tours before they ever got signed. So it's kind of cool to like have all these.

And then I remember we played in Chattanooga with you guys when we were before we were ever signed when we were just like a local band. We were so stoked to play with you guys. Oh my God. It was back when you had the all the crank gear and the road cases and stuff. The crank was blown up at that time. We thought you guys were so fucking cool, man. We were like, God, look at those full stacks with the cases and the, they're really doing it, man.

Oh my goodness, dude. What, dude, what, what, what happened in Crank? It's a great question. Man, they, they have sounded great, you know? I mean, maybe they just didn't have, like, the backing behind them as a brand, like, Mesa, you know, obviously. I think, I mean, but I guess, I don't know, dime bag passed away, and then it just kind of. Yeah, because he was a face of it. Yeah, because he was, he was, like, the face of Crank.

Like, if you saw Dimebag, you saw Crank behind him, you know, like, for sure. Literally, every picture, it seemed like, at no way. You know, it was like, I don't know how they did that. It's like, it's seen that every fucking picture of dime bag just kind of transformed into like a crank ad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was fucking crazy, dude.

There it is right there. Those, uh, those cabs were on our first record. Yeah. Yeah. I remember people, oh, you know, whoever worked with us live is hated the, like the metal grill because you can't mic them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You can't. Yeah. We were all about those Vader cabs. You remember the. The Vader. God. Quick. Vader cat.

Well, first it was, first it was, I remember it was. was VHT and then it was hot for a minute yeah and then and then it switched over to Vader and that was all about the Vader and like I remember like they had the the regular uh the 4 by 12 and then the we had a 215 yeah was the 215 just like for what yeah it was got like a hot second oh yeah we need any more bass we have a fucking bass player dude that how we doing dude yeah and our and vocals are already low as fuck yeah and metric is doing this ungodly low yeah That was back when, you know, you were still playing VFW halls. So we were like, we need more speakers.

We need more this, more that. Because the only thing coming out of the PA was vocals and the kick drum, you know. So you got to put more cabs behind you. It's funny how we were always so drawn to more. We want more. Yeah, yeah, of course. More sound, more. That's the human nature, man.

True. More lows, more slams. Yeah, more of everything. I got to tell you guys, I listen to your whole, like, discography, like from, like, a demo. You guys, I found two demos from 2006, and I just listened from that. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. He said, oh, yeah, that's good.

That was, God, the way that we did our first demos, I downloaded a program called PC drummer. And it was the trial version. It wasn't even like the real version. We never bought the fucking version. No, no. And, like, I forgot how I did it, but I figured out how to, like, loop it back or something. Yeah, this was before the days of like, you know, superior drummer and like being able to program things very easily. Yeah, and like...

This was just like the most stock, shitty sounding drum machine you've ever heard. And that's where I wrote like... I used that and that's when I wrote like Alone to the Morg that one of the songs from Smatic Defilement. It was just like just like, just like grimy, like, just like death metal. But like, you know, because no one was really doing that, you know, like before like band like you guys and us, like, no death metal was tuning that low. And like, uh, it's true. You know, just like that, that speed picking of that like, you know, that A string just was

sound, just sounded so like menacing. Yeah. And, uh, just kind of like playing like cannibal corpse riffs, but in fucking A. Well, I mean, let me, let me rephrase that. Cannibal actually, they do play in like A and like, I think B standard and, uh, a few of their like late 90s album. but yeah as far as like the slam stuff you know it just wasn't really and it's just crazy just like all the bands that spawned after like that era of like you guys

us and like you know like then waking the cadaver came out remember that band oh yeah and uh what was that one band it was like two people we came with broken teeth yeah who was that oh my god it was just like this like electronic like kind of like um it's kind of like the first like you could say like infant annihilator. You know that band? Yes. Like it's kind of like that they were like the first like infinite annihilator esk band. And like it was just chaotic, just ungodly, unplayable speeds and just a bunch of just noise.

Just like grind. Because grind core, remember how grindcore is like that was like getting big at the time. Like just like the really noise, noise inspired bands. God, yeah, dude. I forget about all this stuff until I sit down and talk about it. And then I start remembering everything. Because MySpace was like... As you're going to say, Grindcore, that's a genre you don't really hear much about it too much anymore.

MySpace was our... That was our Instagram and TikTok, you know? It was, yeah. MySpace was huge for like the heavy genre. It was huge. I mean, yeah, when we fucking hopped on that, and then I remember seeing that J-Fact and drop for cowboy I'm like oh this is like serious we got to have a my space and all this competition started I always viewed like it was for me personally it was drop for cowboy and

you guys watch how this is like these are like the competition bands yeah fuck those guys yeah yeah when you're younger you're like we got out do that oh my goodness fucking that sucks yeah the you gotta have an enemy once I knew you have to the moment I knew that like this type of music could make it is whenever job for a cowboy toured with megadeth yeah yeah they opened for mega death back in like it's a big one was like was it like oh seven yeah or something and even when you guys did that slayer tour too it was like you know we had never done anything close to that at that point so it was definitely like you know wow if these bands are touring with fucking megadeth and slayer you know i think we could actually do something with this it was yeah it was like this it's nice that we're old and

And we could kind of look back with some like, you know, maturity. Yeah. But like, yeah, I, like, for me, I could be wrong. But, you know, I'm not trying to exclude Oswald Parish. I mean, I look at that band. It's like they were also like part of like that first wave. Absolutely. But I never, I told I did this too.

I never really looked at them as competition. It's like when I heard Job War Cadwell, there was something that was like, this is going to, this is going to be. Yeah. Something. And then before you know, you go on the fucking PRP and all, they're going on tour. the fucking their arena tour.

Yeah. And then like you guys came out and all this is like there's something at the time. You're just done little kid. You can't like, you know, but there's something special about about this band and I better do something. Well, because they have that viral moment. Like all these bands like they're, you know, that's the thing nowadays is like that that viral moment.

That their viral moment was the, uh, tune of machine. You know, the scream. And then that just just catapult. That was like their catapult and it just shot them into the fucking the ether. You know, I mean, like they were just, it's just little, little moments like that is what, like, really makes you pop off. Like, you know, like today, like Lorna Shore, that song that to the Hellfire song, that's like, that was like their catapult. That's their entoment of the machine. Yeah.

And like. I never viewed it that way ever. Yeah, wow. That's, I mean, it's, uh, but, you know, obviously there, they've been a band. I don't know when they started. I know it was like in the, like 2012, 13 or something. I think over like 10 years or something, probably. But they, yeah, I mean, they just, you know, they've been, they've been, they're doing exactly what everybody else does.

They get in a van and, you know, hook a trailer to it and grind and, you know, work and work and work. can work and then you know finally they you know something pays off for him and um you know that was that was their moment and they are really putting this genre of music uh out there even more and for it to be discovered uh and you know that's just it's really cool it's cool to be like a part of it i i'm i am struggling right now i try to say in a way where i'm not including myself but i I see we is kind of in that thing. But yeah, it's like, for like a band like, you know, White Chapel to be like, to be like that, to see where that first wave has gone.

You know, we were just dumb kids playing a genre that didn't even exist, trying to play with pop-bunk bands. You know, our first band's called, you know, Red, Winter Dying, you know. It's just like, you know, it's trying to get that at the ballroom. See how far it's gone. Yeah, because we were, you guys and us and like, we were all doing it when it wasn't cool. It was not cool, like no one, nobody respected it. Like, no one, like, we were like the, you know, like the fucking stupid, you know, the stupid kids in the back of the bus, you know, like, and everybody else is up front, you know, like all the, all the true metal and all that stuff. And, like, our genre was not respected.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I feel like for a couple of years, I wouldn't say that we were ashamed to use the word death core, but it didn't really feel that cool using it. Yeah, it was almost like taboo. you know? It was. And then, you know, I'm talking like 10 years ago or something. And then, you know, fucking within the past two years, it's like, that's all anybody wants to do now is being a Death Corps band. You know, it's so weird.

I'm not fucking weird. I got spit at, you know, like at, we toured a trivium. And like, that we. A long time ago, not like last year. Yeah. This was like 2012, 2013. Yeah, we were touring. And I still remember where it was, what venue it was.

it was in Oklahoma City. And I had diamond bar. I had my back turned and Savage, our guitar player, saw it. And this guy was just up front. He was, you know, he's waiting for Trivium. And like, he spit at me. I didn't see him do it. And if I would have saw him do it, it had been,

because there's nothing more disrespectful than to get spit at. That is very. And Savage, like, saw him do it. And, like, he grabbed his water bottle. And, like, during, like, an open note or, like, something before a song was about to start. He went over and just poured water all over the room. And like, you know, it's just, that was like what, you know,

I can't speak for you guys, obviously, but like, yeah, we, we, we've dealt with like, the reality we faced for several years. We've dealt with these guys. Get off the stage. Yeah, yeah, like when we toured with Guar. How was that? It was great. I mean, you know, I'm glad that we got to tour with Dave Brockie before he passed, but, like,

he's a really nice guy. All of them are really nice guys. But, you know, they just have that crowd. Yeah. You know, they have, like, elitist, you know, they have. They're there to see Guar and that's it. Yeah. And, like, you know, you got those guys that are doing this, you know, and like, and it's, you know, at the end of the day, like, I don't care if they don't like us.

But, like, to really, like, be into it and put on a show, it's, it is kind of difficult because you're just like, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's, you know, it's one of those things. that just, you know, yeah, it can kind of play into it, you know, if you're trying to, like, put on a good show and, like, no, everyone's just staring at you, you know, you're just like, well, what am I even doing? Yeah, it was just so weird because, like, I felt like, as, you know, one of those younger Death Corps bands in the first wave, we were, like, trying to struggle to make our way through, like,

the real metal industry, you know what I'm saying? Like, playing with these bigger bands, like Trivium and, uh, hate breed and like these iconic names and stuff, you know, and, um, it just didn't really feel like we got took that seriously back then, you know, but now it's like, you know, deathcore bands are on tour with, you know, fucking hell, spites on tour with wage war, you know, so it's like, yeah, it's amazing. So it's like, it's just amazing to see like where the genre's gone and how it's grown, you know. I love that guy's voice. Darius. Oh, yeah. He's, here.

Maniacal, just, like, crazy sounding, like, just, he just sounds like he's just let loose from a mental hospital, you know what I mean? Like, I love that shit. And, like, but to me, like, my favorite guy, I always praise him is Ben from Shadow of Intent. Been sick. Dude, that guy, like, he, and the other thing, too,

I guess I relate a lot with him because he reminds me of myself. He's very death metal. Yeah, like, he's, he grew up on, like, the death metal stuff. And, um, he, like, we have, like, we have, like, like very similar personalities too. Like we're just kind of like low key and like, you know, I don't want to say low energy, but like, yeah, I guess I could say low energy. Like we're not like, you know, wild and kooky.

We're not like a, you know, I'm not like a fucking newborn, you know, golden retriever, you know, like I just, I'm just very low key and soft spoken. And, uh, yeah, he's just like, that dude is just, he just gets it, you know, like I just, I, that band's awesome. and his voice is so sick. Like he reminds me of Michael Akerfeld of O'Peth and like bloodbath and stuff. Yeah. He gives me like a mini corpse grinder vibe too.

Yeah, yeah. On stage, you know, he's like. Yeah, he's like, yeah, he's my favorite of like this new wave of like vocalists that are coming up. I've just always, I don't know, just he's the man to me. Yeah. Is it crazy to be in a position that we're in? where like now it's like when you hear any of bannings stoked for him anyone at help me as opposed to hearing like the new suey with me hearing new what chapel like what the

fuck they're doing yeah yeah yeah yeah it's so it's so different now it's so different now and i think where you know me you know me personally i want to open up the uh discussion where i think like why chapel and suey really fucked up where we there's like this bubbling up time and we should have tore together and we didn't and we tore together but it was it was it was too late and I think both sides have massive egos. Yeah. And I think, Oh, 100%.

And we really didn't capitalize or really hone in on that first wave when like we were the bands that should have been torn together. We were too worried about who is going to play over who versus just doing the fucking tour. It was stupid. Well, because when you're younger, you do, I mean, your ego gets the best of you. I mean, like, when you're young and you're getting that kind of attention, like, and you're your early 20s, mid-20s, like, yeah, you're going to have like a little bit of pride and ego and stuff like that. And then, you know, we're older now and it's just like...

And once you get over 30, all those feelings start to go away. Yeah. The fuck, the don't give a fuck meter is off the charts when you're at, when you're older, you know? Yeah. You're just like, yep. You're just like, whatever, dude. Like, you know, you're just, I don't know, you just mellow out and you stop caring about shit so much. You know what I mean?

Like, you just... It's weird. It's true. It's such, man. It's said, you know, like, you know, you're going to get older. You're going to change. Like, no. No, change.

I'm always me pissed. Yeah. Everything they said was right, you know. Well, hell, even Vincent from Acacia Strain, dude, he's like, changed man. He's like different guy now. He's like... Big old softy. Super positive guy now.

And like, he was like one of the most like negative people ever. And like he's like, you know, being like positive now. And it's just like, yeah, you just get older and life happens and shit changes. And I think it's more or less just getting older. Like when you get older, just there's. I can't explain it. Just something happens. And you just care about completely different things than you did when you were younger.

That's why I think it's hard to keep up with all these young fucking metal and deathcore bands and stuff. Because it's just back then when you have that young rage and hatred and drive, it's so easy to just let that brutality flow out of your fucking fingers. But as you get older, man, it just gets hard to fucking tap into that fucking inspiration, you know, for brutality. It's just like, well, actually, I don't feel, feel sounds pretty good singing. Maybe we should just, like, chill out a little bit.

Yeah. And then night in and night out of, like, screaming. It's just like, I know that, like, you know, there's a lot of information out. Like, you know, with the way the internet is now, there's so much information out now. But, like, I still feel no matter how safe you are with, like, vocals, doing it night in and night out for years.

Years. You're still going to, you're going to hit a wall. still going to fuck something up. Like, it's still going to over time wear you down. And, like, I mean, I could be wrong. But, like, I think, you know, just with anything, like, it, when you get older, you know, your, your, your, your, your bones aren't as strong, you know, it's just like, and this is, this is just another part of your anatomy and, like, doing it night in and a night out for a month, month and a half, two months straight. And then going back home and then recording an album, still doing it, practicing, you know, just over time, like, yeah, your voice is going to get fucking worn out.

No matter how much technique or practice or, you know, warming up you do, like, it's going to wear down over time, you know, because that's just what we do. We start, as soon as we're born, we start dying, you know? Like, true. It's just, it just is what it is. No, it's true, man. And, yeah, so, I mean, I'm glad we, I'm glad we. glad we got that out of the way. And also, I had a very prolonged ego because, I mean, when we got Eddie, it was kind of like a do-over.

Yeah. Of course. But, man, it sucks that we should. Yeah. Yeah, we could have tapped into it. It had to blew up. But, I mean, like you said, we did end up doing it eventually. We did that co-headliner.

And it was good. But like you said, I don't think it was as good as if we did it back when shit was blowing up. Oh, God, we're idiots. Yeah. And now we get older. Like basically like 2010. Yeah, like 2010 or so around in there if we would have done it back then. Both trying to win.

I'm like both lost. Yeah. It's weird how that turned out. So all you young bands, take note of that. For real, do you? It just reminds me of like, you know, just something like Tyson and Holyfield, you know, like, you know, when they're younger, they just fucking hate each other. They just want to beat each other. And then they're old men, they're just like shaking hands, hugging, you know.

It's just like, that's how it is. Like when you're younger, you just have this. because everybody in some way is competitive in some way. Of course. And like, you know, you want to be, yeah,

you want to be top. You want to be the best. And like, that's a subjective thing. It's not an objective reality. You know, it's true. It's just no matter how,

how big you're perceived or whatever doesn't mean you're the best. You know, like it doesn't matter if that this band's getting paid more than you. It doesn't mean that they're better than you. You know, like, it's just, it's all subjective. Music is 100%, 110% subjective. Yes. And you start to realize that when you get older and just, you know.

Yeah, it was, dude, it was to the point where, like, I mean, I'm going to go into into your music right now. It's like, I wouldn't even listen to a whole record. Literally, I didn't listen to Whitechapel until, what's the record? R.A. Emma's War. That's the record for some reason. record came out in a while. I was in the gym. I was going out jogs.

For some reason, I'll put that on. Yeah. But, dude, I mean, I wouldn't even listen to your records. Yeah. And you guys were the band that I actually been listening to all the time.

Yeah. So literally, dude, it's fucking stupid. And then, like, now I could, now I listened to literally, it was from front to back. And it was like this appreciation. Yeah.

Man, these records are fucking crazy, dude. These are, I mean, I was an idiot for not jamming these when I was, when you guys were like, that, that,

that, higher. You know, like, it's cool. You can look back on it with some perspective now, though, you know. A lot of perspective.

Now, oh, this is why people love this band so much. I mean, I mean, like, dude, your third record is amazing.

Thanks. I was like, you guys, I mean, you guys brought some, like, what was that, breeding of violence.

Yeah. It's like that, it's like that, you do something in the intro, pukap, yeah, and that slam came in. I remember.

Tika, tick, when I first heard that, I was pissed. Yeah. You're like, oh, what the fucks. But now I listen to it. Now I'm like, damn, what a sick song.

And now I'm like going, I'm literally, it's so weird now I'm going to my phone and listen to Whitechapel and my spirit time. Yeah. And it took, it sucks. It took a lifetime for that shit that happened. But dude, like that record is, is phenomenal. We guys got like Vincent from Casey Strain on a track, you know. How did you guys get Chino?

That was nuts. That was our old manager. Did he manage Team Sleep? Or he? Yeah, he did something with him. He was like a day-to-day person for Team Sleep. And he had known, he was from Sacramento. So he knew Chino for a long time.

And he brought it up to Chino. And I mean, of course we paid him. You know, he didn't do it for free. But the reason he said he did it is because he brought it up to his kids. And his kids, like, freaked out when he said the name Whitechapel. Wow. So he did it for his kids. I was like, damn, that's fucking cool.

Yeah, see, I mean, it's always going towards like a younger, generation. Yeah. It's crazy, huh? Yeah. Track's awesome. Yeah. That record is amazing, dude.

Yeah. That, that record is amazing. And then self-todily got Ben, which she was just a powerhouse. Yeah. You know? And it seems like Ben was trying to find his way.

And then once, like, art and his war came out, like, that was just kind of found, like, you guys found, like some different groove. There was something about that record.

Like, I think my favorite chapel song right now is, let me burn. That was the one I was always jamming in, like the gym. like you're going on jogs. For some reason, that song was just like, you know, what?

And what was it writing process like for that song? Phil wrote most of that, actually. I did. Let me burn? Remember we were trying to, like, we were trying to mimic that song, Benzine. Oh, yeah. That's what I thought.

Yeah. That's what I thought. The Romstein cover. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the heaviest song. Of course. Of course.

Yeah. But, uh. It's called instrument. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, because I mean, still to this day. And then you wrote that one, the bannamana-man-bana-a-da-o. That rip is sick.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, like. Phil's always got a good four to five riffs per album on there, for sure. Like, even on Ken, he wrote some guitars on that, too. Did I? Which one? Without us? Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's just chugs, but you still wrote it. Yeah, I mean, I'm, because I was a guitar player first. and like, you know, I mean, I'm definitely... Black Bear, that main riff of Black Bear, you wrote that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I was a guitar player first, singer, second, you know, like... I mean, since Somatic, he's always had at least one or two riffs on the records, so... That's cool, yeah.

Yeah, I didn't... I didn't know that. I remember, like, you said that, mentioned that, oh, you, like, Phil wrote that one riff. I was like, oh, he... You play a song, crazy. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I mean, yeah.

I don't know. I just, because, like, I was playing in a band with Ben Savage, one of our guitar players, and we had this guy, because we were in, like, a, you know, metal core, like, kill switch and gauge worship kind of band, you know? And, like, our singer was incredible, like, as far as, like, talent-wise, like, his voice, like, his voice was so good. Like, he actually, unfortunately passed away, and it was, like, one of,

it was Savage's best friend. Um, but he inspired me to be a singer because he was, his, his, his, his vocals were amazing, but his stage presence was terrible. Uh, like he just, like, he would just stand like, the guitar players would be the front and center, you know, because like, he just like had like, I don't know if it was like nerves or whatever, but he just didn't have like a, a commanding, he didn't command the, the crowd, you know, he didn't command the, the crowd, You know, and like, it's, you know, and I don't mean to, you know, tarnish his name or anything. But yeah, he just, he inspired me by not doing what I wanted him to do as a singer.

Yeah. And so I was just like, because I started doing backing vocals for that band. And then eventually that band, you know, obviously ended. And I was just like, all right, I need to do something that like, this is my roots. Like, I just want to do something heavy, like death metal. like and then yeah that's what spawned whitechapel in brandon kegel's mom's basement wow and then aOL instant messenger with yeah i mean he he hit me up on aim and was like because we had you know i played in local bands they played in local bands and we all our bands played together so we all knew who

each other were and what we were capable of and stuff and we even had egos then yeah yeah yeah we Of course we did. Yeah. Of course they did. Yeah. Like, you know, the whole three guitar story, fucking, we had me, Savage and Kegel. And Savage and Kegel were friends. And they kind of came as a package with Phil.

Yeah. I went to high school with Kegel. Like, me and Kegel have been friends since I was 15 years old. So, like. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like, the three guitar thing was just an accident. It wasn't even like.

Well, the band almost didn't even start because I was in another local band that had three guitars and they were like you know me ben and kegel all wanted to be in the band but i was like i've already done the three guitar thing i'm over it i don't want to do it again and uh so you know it was like well neither one of them are quitting so i guess we're not going to start the band you know and then they were like just give it a shot man just let's see you know just come over and jam we'll see how it sounds if it sounds like shit we'll you know we won't try i was like all right i'll give it a shot and I came over there and we all jammed together and we were like damn it sounds pretty sick so that's we started the band from there so yeah because I mean like yeah yeah because I mean like

you know I if if say we did lose a guitar player like somewhere which I don't think we ever will but if we were to I don't think we'd get another one let's put it that way because like the three guitar thing is like it it's it is what it is and like you know I wouldn't change it for the world. But, you know, that's just, it wasn't really something that in hindsight, if I could go back, I would probably have two. But, you know, we're just all boys. So it's just like, yeah. And I mean, it got us to, we're here where we are the way we are because of every decision we've made to this point. Yeah. Every good and bad one. Every good and bad one. Every decision along the way.

We are where we are because of those decisions. So, you know. And it's just like, for me, it's just like the only reason that I wouldn't do it is just, you know, stage space. Because when you're playing those small stages, it's, it can be pretty bad just because, I mean, you can't put on a show. You can't move because there's, you know, five dudes up front, you know. And, but, you know, it is, that's what we are and that's what we understand. it as you know yeah yeah we're always like because I always was curious like man why did it have three players and um and also like your your your lineup has been very stable throughout

throughout your your career has been very stable is you know aside from our cursed drummer's spot yes yeah we own up to it it's fine yeah someone put uh fucking juju bad mojo on us you know over 15 years ago and uh I don't know yeah we're we're carmers we are we are cursed and right now we're blessed with mr brandon zaki and yeah mark mark hooked us up with with brandon sick so you know that's he's been working out yeah he's been working out super great for us since then so awesome i'm curious to see where where that goes yeah because he's been doing great i think you know we've been talking to him about you know hopefully he can have a shot to do lay some drums on the next album and stuff like oh wow you know so yeah we'll see where

that goes. We're supposed to be writing and recording as soon as we get home from this tour. Get some new chap in 24. Look for it. Phil, you made a post that I comment on. So I said about time. Can you elaborate on the recent post that he made? I don't know. I think it's just like, because here's the thing with like, With our albums, it's like it comes in threes. Our first three were like the albums that people today are saying, like, I wish they sounded like A, B, and C, you know, like which is somatic, exile, and new era.

And then the next three were self-titled, Arunless War, and Mark of the Blade. And those were all like, that was like our sound changed, but it didn't change, but it changed. You know what I mean? Agreed. And then now we're on this next cycle of three, which is Valley, Ken, and now, and it's like, I feel like I want to break the cycle. And I just want to.

And, like, I don't know. I just, I just have an itch to write heavy shit again. Like, I mean, we've always been heavy, you know, like, but not like the first three albums heavy. Like that grimy, just like, you hear it and you're just like, fuck, you know, like, that is, that is. that is disgusting. And like that's just, you know, like when you get older, like, yeah, when you're in a band, you just experiment and you just want to try something new and, you know, you do it and you get that out, you know, and like you, you know, you either, you know, I'm proud of it, you know,

like it doesn't mean that I hate it. It's just that I don't know, I'm just, I'm feeling very nostalgic. I'm feeling very like, it's your roots call you back eventually sometime in your life, you know. and that's just that's just the mode I'm in I just want to I just want to make another just like something just menacing and just evil and just like scary and that's the one thing in like with the internet nowadays like nothing is scary and serious anymore everything's like me everything's a meme everything's a joke and like I miss like the scariness of shit like you know like like like Mitch

Mitch was scary live terrifying and like none of none of that really happens anymore the only bands that really kind of still have that are like musuga or behemoth like if you watch behemoth like you're not going to meme that band that band's terrifying live and like there's just I just want that back

because now everything's just like in the comment section just who can come up with the funniest joke. And like, not saying that I don't like the laugh, you know, of course I do. But it's just like when it comes to music, I just like the seriousness of shit. You know, I like serious, scary, like, I want to go. Like, whenever I watch a band, I want to be, I want to feel like, like, like, intimidated. And like. Like, have an actual vibe there, not just like, you know.

Yeah, like it. Because we're just up there playing music. Because that's not my personality. I'm not like a fucking, you know, like, bing. You know, wacky cartoon noises guy, you know. Like, I like fucking just, just evil, just menacing and just terrifying, scary, intimidating, just all that kind of shit. Just like, just dark. I love shit like that.

And I've always loved shit like that. Just even in general life, I just love dark stuff. And I don't know. There's a lot of people that, you know, can't handle, like, the, they like to be surrounded by happy shit. like I love like dark stuff that's the stuff that gets me gets my brain going you know because like I don't know if it has something to do with how I grew up or what but I just I I I watch a lot I've watched a lot of fucked up shit in my life like I don't know if you remember back in the day you know like what was that stuff that came out like on like on VHS like back in the night of faces

a death faces of death and then like it's still a scar from that shit And that shit. Still scarred for sure. A lot of that shit was actually fake. But I've seen like, I don't know. I've always just, I'm a weird fucking person when it comes to shit like that. Like, it doesn't get to me like it does most people. Like, I can watch someone, like, get their face blown off by a shotgun.

And I'm like, whoa, holy shit, that's fucking crazy. But, like, I can go to sleep that night. And I don't know if that's something fucked up with me. But I don't know. I think it makes for good music. It does. I think there's a curiosity there because I'm very similar to you. But before I do, I'll go to the website.

It might be the dark web. I'm not sure. But I won't watch the video depending on how, you know how graphic it is by like the thumbnail. A little picture. I just like, I'll look at my phone like this. And for some reason, just a title and a little thumbnail is enough to like remind me. Okay. I like being aware what was what's out there.

You know, I don't know, even like, I like knowing like the dark is a dark. Like live leak and shit like that. You remember that website? I don't know if it's still really a thing anymore. Because I know like a lot of that shit is like starting to become censored and like nothing. Yeah. It's not a thing anymore. I'm sure if you can dig and you can find a website that still has shit like that.

I'm not saying don't go watch it. But if you can't handle it. But yeah, I don't know. I'm just, I guess I'm just desensitized because I mean my younger years, I just experienced a lot of, I don't know. I didn't, because my dad passed and then, you know, my mom was kind of absent after that because she became a drug addict. But like, yeah, I mean, I was just basically kind of on my own as like a young teenager. And like that was back whenever the internet was like just becoming a thing, you know, like America online and shit.

And yeah, I just, I don't know. I just kind of sat in my room and thought about dark shit. I never was I was suicidal once in my once in my life you know, it was after my dad died but like yeah I don't know just I think like all the stuff that happened to me

just kind of desensitized me to a lot of stuff and like it takes a lot for something to get to me like I think I think the only thing in this day and age that will get to me is I can't watch like animals die like a dog or something I can't watch that But a person, I can just be like, eat popcorn fucking... But if it's like an animal, like, I'm just like, oh, no, I don't want to see that.

Why is that with humans? We just don't like seeing pets or animals. I don't know. I mean, like, obviously, like, children. Like, I don't want to see that. Well, yeah, of course. But I don't know, man. I mean, people might think I'm fucked up after this podcast, but I mean, I'm just being real, you know?

Like, I'm just... I don't know. My mind is a steel. cage, I guess. Yeah. Well, I mean, we've been very lucky to find a way to, like, channel it. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. It's when I had the conversation with, with my lady, like, if you, people only knew where, like, the music came from. I wonder they were still to listen to it. Yeah, right. Well, yeah, that's where it all started me with, like, with, like, listen to, like, gore metal and shit, you know, like, I was, I was just like, oh, this is so, like, I was just like, this is fucking crazy, bye.

And then you get up, you, when you're a kid, you get obsessed with shit. And, like, that's where, like, just kind of like, the. And then I started having the the curiosities of just like, well, I wonder what it would be like if someone, because you know, you see people die in movies. But like, what happens when it's real? And like, you know, as a kid, I had that curiosity. And like, yeah, as fucked up as it sounds, it's just, it just is what it is. You know, I mean, like, do I do it nowadays? No.

I don't like go search for it. But if I do see it, like, I'm desensitized to it. Like, it just doesn't bother me. Now, if I'm walking down the street and I see some dude get hit by a bus, yeah, if I see it like in front of me, like in real life, yeah, that's probably going to be like, that's kind of fuck with me a little bit. Yeah. But when it's, I don't know, when it's on a computer screen or whatever, like, it just, I don't know. Yeah, if I see somebody get their head chopped off, you know, next to me, like, yeah, I'm not going to build a, I don't know if I'm going to build a stomach that. Yeah.

A quick little puk there. Yeah. This is, this is going to write a heavy record. No, but, I mean, it's. I go to dark places whenever I write. I just think of, fuck it. Like, that's what I want this. I want this next album.

I've already got the concept of it, and it's, I'm, there's some of the stuff I've come up with. I've wondered if I should even write it because, like, I wonder if I'm, if it's going to get us in trouble, you know? Like, that kind of dark, you know, like, that's a good place to go. Yeah. Yeah, like, I don't think everyone listening will be very happy to hear that. Well, because in the world we live. And now, like, it's hard to say shit, you know, nowadays because, like, I mean, you got to walk on eggshells with what you say especially on the internet, you know, like, do you find that, you guys had to do, like, those past two records to kind of, it kind of brings, without knowing, it kind of brings you back, you know. I agree.

You know, I definitely feel like those records were something we just needed to do artistically. you know I mean because I mean if you look at our entire discography like Ken is absolutely the softest softest record we've ever put out and I mean there's still a lot of really heavy stuff on it but overall on the grand screen of albums you know so I feel like as we've gotten older we've just had to kind of like we couldn't have made the same record over 17 years you know it's like at some point we've got to do something different I get it um you know we had to experiment with some different sounds and stuff but you know I I do think, like you said, I think all of that brings you back to a place where you're ready to be inspired to kind of bring back some of your roots and stuff like that, you know. And I think that's what a lot of fans don't understand, too, is like, it's like, you know, they want, they want you to do what.

Because that's the thing. They want you to do what they want you to do. Like we don't wake up every day fucking excited about trying to write somatic defaumat part two. Yeah. And like, that's like, I'm fucking, almost 37 years old. Because when you keep doing it and doing it and doing it, like, yeah, I mean, this could be challenged what I'm about to say.

But like, you start to run out of ideas. Everything starts sounding the same. Nothing. There's no more. It's like, what other riff can I write? There's millions, there's thousands, millions, whatever of other bands writing riffs too. It's like, how much different can a riff be, you know, like at this point? And like, that's where you.

start to just be like, fuck, man, I have to do something else. I have to, I have to write something else. I have, you know,

it's just like, that's what fans don't understand. When you're in a band, it's just like, you start to fucking run out of ideas, man, because it's just like, there's so many metal bands and it's just,

there's only so many notes on a guitar or so many, like, you know, riffs you can write that won't rip off someone else or sound like someone else or it's just, it's tough.

And, you know, that's where you just kind of got, you just got to branch out and just reset. Sure. And just reset your mind and... Fuck, man. I mean, you were talking about how each of our albums is almost kind of like a trilogy.

And I do feel like that is... That's why it sounds like that is because over those trilog, our sound has changed. You know, like the first three was that OG Deathcore sound. The next three was in that moment where we were talking about how Death Corps wasn't really that cool. Like, you know, 2012, 2013, whatever. And that was our that was our we're just a metal band. Yeah. So that was us.

We're like, yeah, we tried to get rid of the death core. We were just like, we're just a metal band. Yeah, because nobody fucking liked death core. We're just like,

God damn it. Well, then we're just going to be a metal band because like, we're not respected. No one likes us. Like, yeah, there are people that like us,

but like, obviously we've got fans, but we're talking about like in the industry as a whole. Yeah. You know, like honestly, like a band like slip knot isn't taking a serious. We felt like a band like that

isn't taking a series. making us seriously because we're quote unquote death core versus if we were just like a metal band or whatever, you know? So that self-titled, arindless war, Mark of the Blade, that trilogy was us just trying to be like just a metal band. That's it. Like we're not, no sub-genres. We're just obviously there's like, yeah. It's going to becomes cool. Yeah, there's like some death core sound.

Yeah. It's like, you know, there's like some death core elements and shit in there. But for the most part, you know, we just want to be a metal band. And then, you know, we experimented with Bring Me Home and the singing, and then that's when the Valley came along. We were like, well, we did bring me home and people liked it, so obviously we should try singing more. And then that kind of birthed that whole new trilogy of Valley and Ken

and then this next album coming up. But, I mean, like Phil said, I think, you know, the next one should in theory be a... I mean, it's not like, you know, there will still be singing for sure because Phil's great at it. And I think it's something that we're always going to incorporate. But, you know, I do think that, you know, throwback to the old chap isn't going to bum anybody out, you know. No.

Especially bands like Gus, you've got to do it. Yeah. You know, it's in our bones, dude. It's in our bones, it's part of our souls, man. You know, it'll be kind of cool of, like, you know, bands like us, you know, dude, it's around like the same time. Yeah. You know. Absolutely.

It's in there, dude. Yeah. And it won't leave. You just got to find it. You know. Dig deep. Pull it out. You got to dig deep, dude.

Well, I know you guys got out of balance. I got two more things for you. Phil, I was just curious, dude, because I have to bring it up because people keep bringing this up to me. When you did Mitch's Memorial Show, that was very chilling. How was literally like when like it was unanswered. And I felt this presence behind. behind me. And the way, the way you walked out, dude, was, the way you walked out.

God, in my Atticus jacket. Jesus Christ. Where in hell is that thing? Who knows? Dude, this performance is iconic, period. That's it. People talk about this shit. They'll never stop talking about it. To this day, I'm just like, and, you know, you were talking about how you used to kind of be like, you know, like, meh about each other or whatever. Dude, I got the point where I got so sick of hearing about this fucking shit, because I was just like, why doesn't anybody talk about what Phil does in Whitechap like that? Everything is just like, have you heard the unanswered cover? Have you heard the unanswered cover? Like, yes, we've heard it. Everyone has fucking heard it. It's fucking incredible. Like, yes, we know that. You can stop saying it.

That whole, that whole, like, I'm like, God, just talk about Whitechapel like that. Come on. that whole like 24 to 36 hours of my life was like the biggest blur ever really because like because i was flying out the i think it was the day of i think i flew out the day of i did yeah i did you did it and flew right back i flew out the day of the show i got to california at like i like maybe like noon one o'clock two o'clock i don't know and i didn't sleep at all the prior before I left and then I had a hotel room and I went back and I slept for like two hours tops and didn't go I was I was on two hours of sleep with this and I I woke up in my hotel room I still remember this day I woke up in my hotel room after not sleeping and then I had like a

panic attack and I don't know why. I just did. I just woke up and I was just like fucking just cold sweats and just panicking and just like I went in the bathroom and I was just like. And you know, I just, you know, I don't know if anybody's ever had a panic attack. But like you just get really your heart's racing and like, you know, breathing is not the best. But yeah. And then like I just, I calmed down and then headed to the venue and then which I think the hotels that we had right next to the. the venue pretty much.

Very, very close, yes. And, yeah, I just, what was it, the Fox, was it the Fox Theater? Fox, yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, then I just got up and I just went over to the venue and just waited until the show started. And I knew I was coming up, I was one of the first ones,

because you were doing the EP first. And then, because was Johnny the first guy? And then, yes. And then Brooke. And I was just like, I was just backstage and like that was like, you know, because like to this day, like, I never really, you know, the nerves kind of go away. Like you don't really get nervous for shows because you've done it so many times, whatever. But that show, I was fucking terrified because like it's not my band.

I've never played with you guys before. And I'm, and I'm. You didn't even rehearse it. We didn't even rehearse. No. And I, uh, I, I, would have there and did it. Well, then that. But I'm always.

also going up there and performing a song, uh, in memory of, you know, you know, Mitch's passing, you know, like that's, you know, and I mean, he's, I still, to this day, I mean, like, no one will ever be like him. No one will ever be able to, to command the way he did. He just like, I don't know, man, like, I just think that he is, he's the dude. Like, because when you, when you, when you, when you watched you guys, I still, like, you did, your eyes didn't leave, you know. Like, he just, he's just, he was the man, dude. Like, he just, he was the guy.

And like, I still think to this day, he is, he is the goat. Like, he is, he is, he will be the greatest of all time. like just solely just of his presence. His presence was just, you felt. You're just like, he was like, he was, what I was talking about earlier, like intimidation. Like he was intimidating because he's like, what, six, four, like just tall, just like,

he's, he's just walking around like a just unhinged, you know, like that. I mean, no matter what video I saw of you guys, he's going ape shit, you know, and like he's just he was the man i mean like he is he is he is no one will ever be able to reach what he did i think my opinion thank you for that yeah uh your your performance was insane you know especially back then you know um and yeah Mitch uh passed away and then uh i did i stopped doing drugs pretty cold turks

but I did two more times once in Vegas and then that night it was like it was after and I was going through like this you know you know when you get older you start to like experience your feelings you got you got to be self-aware that was like I never experienced that feel for a long time until that show like we're like you just you just feel something like literally when you will I will never forget that feeling when you were behind me you walked out slowly in the stage it was just like this is ingrained in my body, you know. And unfortunately, it took us such an extreme moment like that for us to even, you know, be, experience it, yeah.

Be open to listening to each other's bands. Yeah, right. Yeah, I was fucked up. How old were we here? Like, 26? 27. 26 there, dude. Maybe 27.

Oh, I was about to be 27, actually. Yeah. Because, I mean, he passed in 2012. Yes. And so, it. it's been 11 years. Right?

Yeah. So, yeah, I was like 26, 27. It was, well, yeah,

I was 27 because, uh, my birthday's in September and this was in December. So, and oh, and the other thing, too,

the other thing that was freaking me out is because that was back whenever the whole like, uh, 2012 fucking like, oh, yeah, there's all the shit was going on. And I was like,

you guys are flying me out on 2012? What the fuck? you know, like, you were being kind of difficult. I remember one person being difficult. Our manager had to talk him into doing it for sure. They were like, he was like, he was like, Phil, you got to get on that plane. You got to go do this. Like, thank you.

Yeah. He said, thank you. You got to get on that plane. You got to have a fucking panic attack. Yeah. This was back whenever I was having like, I was having some, I was having some personal issues back in this time. Like, because like, dude, if you look at like, R in this war promos, I, I, look horrible. I look

like disgustingly like sick and like because I because I got down to like a hundred and I think the lowest weight I got to is like 113 pounds. Yeah like look at that picture. Look at my face. Oh wow. Wow.

I don't know what was wrong. I like I stopped taking my medication because I've been on Zoloff since I was like 14. Holy. I stopped at cold turkey and then like two months later I started feeling just so ill. I thought I thought I was like, I thought I had something wrong with me. I thought I had like, I don't know, cancer or something because I felt horrible.

And I started seeing like this like online music therapist. His name was David. I forgot, I forgot his last name. But our old manager hooked him up, hooked us up. And I started talking to him. And, you know, I was just like fucking crying on the computer.

because I was just so fucking my head was all fucked up and like um then I started taking my medicine again and everything was fine but like yeah I was I wasn't eating like I like I remember I like I was uh my I was with my ex-girlfriend and like I would just like lay in bed just all day like I don't know I just like I felt like I had like a like a very bad flu like I just and it and it happened happened twice like and then I would get over it and then like a month or two later it happened again I was just like what the fuck is wrong with me and I started taking my medicine again and everything was fine and like because I because I tried to stop taking my medicine cold turkey and like it's just not what you're supposed to do when it comes to like antidepressants and like

because like in hindsight I probably shouldn't have never been on antidepressants I don't know maybe I would be different but um I don't know I've just taken it ever since I was 14 so oh wow 14 15 years old and i still take it to this day i probably shouldn't but you know america that's where it's big pharma yeah yeah like you said you can't just i mean when your body is dependent on it you can't just quit it cold turkey though it's not good yeah it's it was not good and i i i don't know if you know ever noticed it but back that was definitely i actually remember that photo shoot specifically the one where you looked so bad it wasn't good that was also around when your grandpa passed away too so that didn't help anything either yeah like i just i was

that was not a good time like i was in i remember you showed up for that photo shoot and i was just like he looks like yeah you know no fault of your own but i was like well whatever this is it we got to get it done well at least the whole rule is not going to see this yeah oh wait because if you look at pictures it's only the pictures that we're used for an entire album cycle. Yeah. Like if you, if you look at pictures of terrible, dude. Yeah, like, if you look at that picture and you literally look a different shade

than everyone else. Yeah. Like, look at this picture and then pull up like a more recent picture. Like it looks photoshopped. Like, yeah. It looks like a madey look He looks white. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, like, I don't know, fucking 2020 or 2022. I don't know.

There's one. There's one. Yeah, like, just completely different person. Yeah. Just like, I look, that's a healthy. page right there. Yeah, look at me. I look at fat. You have some tities right there. Come on. Yeah, it's crazy because I've always been like a small person. Like, I mean, you know, I'm naturally, I'm just a short guy.

But like, but yeah, like, I never thought that I would ever be, because like I've always had a really fast metabolism. Yeah. But no. It's true. When you get older, that shit slows down. I'm, I mean, I'm not like a, you know, like I'm not. like super big but like I'm bigger than I've ever been you know but I'd rather be big than to be sickly or that skinny yeah like based on the version of dying it seems like yeah dude that was you look terrible there yeah I never I never noticed that yeah because well we had our own heads off our ass you know well it sucks I wish we could talk for longer by note we're already

like 16 minutes press but uh dude it was such an honor to actually sit down and talk and talk and with you guys. Real quick, I mean, I mean, suicide silence owes our career to you guys. If it wasn't for like the competition level between Whitechapel and Jabber

Cowboy, do you, like we wouldn't, you know you guys wouldn't have pushed me. Yeah. Likewise, likewise for us, man. Trust me. We were, as much as it was a competition for you,

it was for us too. But I mean, you know, we always definitely felt like we were like right on the hills, you know, suicide silence. So we were always, gunning to try to like you know do the next cool thing or whatever but like you said that friendly competition it kind of helps drive both bands it did man it's a source

of inspiration so and then take out one of those bands of that trifecta I truly believe that our music would not be as good no absolutely you needed that fuck you need like because we're all I'm not saying it's sick but we're all sick so like you want it just makes you like you got you might make sure you write the best yeah album possible and the fans win you know and now in that competition's so different i'm very competitive but now it's in a healthy way yeah exactly yeah so want to be the best but yet i mean i wish i i i think we're all we believe in abundance yeah there's room for everybody yeah everybody can eat you know there's plenty of room for everybody out here plenty of room well

you guys the valley's been out for four years you're you're playing it front to back Are people stoked about that? Yeah, this tour's been amazing. It's honestly done better than I thought it would. Really? So I'm really thankful for the people showing up for that. Dude, it's sick. Yeah.

You've been a lot of fun. All the other bands, too, Ark Spire, Signs of the Swarm, Enthios. You know, we've known Enthios for a while, but the other two we just became friends with, and they're great. Everybody, it's just like the chillest tour ever. Wow. Yeah, we're... It's nice to go on tour. and it be successful and see everybody's selling merch,

everybody's winning. It's great. You know, fans are coming out, having a great time. You can't ask for much more. Yeah, because all I care about nowadays, man, is just if I can go home to, you know, my girl, my dogs, pay my bills and do the things that I, my hobbies, I don't care. It's funny because I don't like being in the spotlight. I don't like being the center of attention.

I've never been like that. like I just I don't know I'm just it's it's people always say well that's why do you do what you do just like I mean I can't explain it but yeah I mean like I don't I hate like when people like overly like compliment me I appreciate it obviously but I get weird I'm just like I'm not you know that cool and you know whatever but yeah when you're younger you're just like yeah praise me give me all the praise fucking and then like yeah and then like yeah. Yeah, just, you get older and you're just like, man, all that shit's fucking stupid. We only have so much time here. You might as well spend it in a way that's positive towards you and the people that you love, you know. Yeah, man. Well, dude, it was honored to sit down with you guys and finally just, you know, hash it out. I was wondering if we're going to talk about or not, but I'm so, I'm so happy.

Yeah, no, it's good. Yeah, no, it's good. Yeah. Finally, the duality of silence in chapel, you know. it's on on record dude we we should have a fake beef

yeah right and then release our singles around around the same time yeah yeah because I feel like I feel like that animosity was like I think it's been over

for years now but you know because I mean I feel like after yeah like the Mitch show like because you know like Dan Kinney

you know he's he's the fucking silly guy of suicide and you know like me and him I think honestly dude I think it was probably Warp Tour.

Because that's when we started like, like, hanging out and like just been like, all right, we're boys fucking everything's cool, you know. So, I mean, yeah, it's been for a long time. So, but it would, I think, I think it was, you know, I think it was, it was good to have that. Yeah, like you said. God, Warped Tor, fucking, where's been Leonetti nowadays, dude. There's so much, there's so much we didn't cover. It's fucking insane. But hopefully there'll be like a part two.

Hey, there's a part two coming, you know. Dude. Well, this one, for you the people, this one is for you again, thank you guys for making the drive down and for a shower traffic. Appreciate it. And where can people find you guys? Well, you can find us on Instagram at Whitechapel Band. You can find us on Facebook. Yeah. And what are you, Alex Chapel? Alex Chapel, Phil Bozeman. Yeah, mine's just my name, Phil Bozeman. Instagram is pretty much the only thing I do. I'm not a TikToker. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't.

That's where my age starts to come in to play. I don't get this fucking TikTok shit. You damn TikTok kids. Yeah. I really don't. I really don't get it. But, you know, that's just... It's always something new, man.

That's what the older people said during MySpace. It's all a cycle. Sure. Yeah. Sure, man. We just got to say it true to what we do, you know. Yeah. All right, everyone.

That's it. Whitechapel. Later. Out.