Garza Podcast - 83 - OG SUICIDE SILENCE: Famliy Guy Samples, Inventing Deathcore & The Early Days

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Garza sits down with former members of SUICIDE SILENCE Josh Goddard & Rick Ash. From the classic EP line-up. Check out Torn Within! https://www.tornwithin.bandcamp.com SPONSORS: distrokid.com/vip/garza 30% OFF! emgpickups.com Promo Code: Heavy 15% OFF! TIME STAMPS: 00:00 - Rick’s Running Career 02:29 - Reuniting After 10 Years 04:50 - Josh Joining Suicide Silence/Living with Mitch Lucker/Early Days 12:10 - Recording the First Demos at Lovejuice Studios 15:30 - Rick Didn’t Love the Recordings 17:01 - Rick Joining Suicide Silence 23:12 - Josh Tufano Appreciation 26:09 - Working at Anchos Mexican Restaurant, Starbucks & Developing Work Ethic 29:28 - Rick Leaving the Band 32:20 - Recording “Bludgeoned to Death,” Developing the Suicide Silence Sound 35:33 - The Time Capsule, Influences 43:49 - Notpopular.com Reviews 47:02 - Recording Ending is the Beginning EP, Getting Better as Musicians 50:34 - Finding the Peavey 5150 II & Marshall Straight Cabinet 54:16 - Songwriting Process Influenced by Live Shows, Slayer & Dying Fetus 01:04:19 - Genre Defining vs Genre Defying, Early Shows 01:09:31 - The Garza Blast 01:12:15 - Family Guy Samples 01:19:09 - Josh’s Exit From the Band, Growing Tensions 01:25:24 - Reuniting After Mitch’s Passing 01:33:35 - Reflection & Humility 01:38:47 - Garza Appreciation 01:43:34 - Van Breakdown, Kitchen Shows 01:46:50 - Feeling Proud of Being in Suicide Silence 01:49:44 - The Outside Noise & Self Titled Album 01:55:33 - Torn Within Return After 20 Years & New Material 02:00:50 - The Future & Being Present 02:04:24 - Thrush, Dying Dreams & Moshing

At Home Depot, there was a senior citizen of gentlemen, and I just tapped him on the shoulder and said, hey, I invented Death Corps. And he just got him. He just shook his head and walked away. Use EMG pickups because they help you get the heaviest tone possible. Head over to emGpickups.com and use my promo code heavy at checkout and get 15% off. And then once you write the heaviest song of all time,

head over to distrokid.com slash VIP slash Garza and save 30% off your membership to get all your songs on all streaming platforms. And now to the heaviest podcast of all time. Rick, you might be my first friend that had a six-pack. And I just want to tell you that was very inspiring. Was it? Yeah. Well, yeah.

Running. I was a runner, you know. You were on. I was on part scholarship to UCR for running track when I was in the band. I never knew that. You serious? So running was, yeah, that was a big part of my life. Yeah, he was like our only friend.

I was like, you would run and was like, why is he running? That's because that's what I did, like 24-7 in Elsinore. So, yeah, I know a lot of people probably didn't know that, but yeah. Did you know that, Josh? No, I just thought he always looked that sexy, and it's pissed me off, you know, because I keep up with a, I'd say, a pretty modest workout routine. And Rick, correct me if I'm wrong, but you recently said, you never work out. I think you're wrong about saying that. Or I think you're wrong about me saying that.

That was part of the reason why I stopped playing, you know. that time you know Jerry were with Jerry we're playing more shows and it was like we had been on a like a tour during the spring and it was like my deal was like

well I could keep touring as long as it's during spring break or summer break or because I was I was in school doing that so and then eventually I quit school and yeah but anyways yeah I didn't know that

Oh, you're actually involved with track. Yeah. Yeah. That was a tough time, man. I guess just to lay down the groundwork, you know. You, Rick and you, Josh, you've been requested to be on this podcast because people are just curious, like, of your history and then, and what happened to suicide silence. So, you know, I'm honored that we're at a point of we're older and could have.

actually sit in a room together. This hit me today. I don't think we hung out for 10 years. Us three? I think the last time the three of us were in a room together was the Memorial show, wouldn't you say? That was the last time. So that's more than 10 years, I think.

I do want to establish something right off the bat. I told you I brought some tricks. Okay. I'm ready. Chris, I want you to wear this. I want you to put it on. I should have known you were being smart to me because I forgot to ask you about bringing the mask.

So it's amongst our Halloween decorations and it comes out every October. So there it is. How did you play drums in this thing, dude? I'll do a couple minutes with this. My face was wet very often. It's clean now. hasn't been sweated in in a very long time.

So please know of that. It looks pretty brutal, that's for sure. I mean, I would like to now give credit. Why don't you? Well, I think the recordings speak for themselves. Oh, my God. There weren't that, back. Well, we should get into that.

We should really go back to the origins here. Let's get into it, please. First of all, the mask belongs to my brother-in-law, Dominic. Dominic Montez, that's his. So that's not even mine. He can take that back whenever he wants. He may wield that power at any time. It is his property, first and foremost.

But we should run through this, I think, as quickly as we can to get to, you know, the point in time that we were joined by Rick. You know, I was living with Mitch. I just moved in with him. He was kind enough to let me put a mattress in his closet. And so we were sharing a bedroom with his dad, K.T., and his brother, K.T. And one day he came home and he had this demo, three-track demo. He said, suicide silence, death-awaites demo. And he said, this is Tanner's new band.

I said, okay, cool. Tanner was in a deaf-tones, like practically a deaf-tones cover band, so I thought, okay. Right. Probably. I don't remember the name. I was with Brandon Treyhand and Little Josh, Josh Tafano. For the record, there's no little Josh.

There's simply Big Josh and normal Josh. But yeah, we put it on in my car and we started listening to it and said, this is rather good. And sometime later, Mitch had joined the band. And I think you played three shows before I joined Suicide Silence. Yeah. And this may be another moment to clear the record. I'm not the original drummer, right? Yeah, no one knows that either, yeah.

Yeah. So Chris went from Justin Tafano, who is a fabulous drummer. To this day, my favorite drummer I ever played with. God, he's good. He was so good. The three-track demo he did with one foot. Am I wrong about that? He was obsessed with, I got to play this thing with one a foot.

He was a freak. He was a, oh, my God. So he was a freak. His brother Josh was, you know, already in the band. And so I had seen you guys play a few times. I don't think you ever played a show without Mitch. I think he was there for the first show. Correct me if I'm wrong.

We had a show with ex-communion, which at the time, like me and Rick were jamming a lot. Remember that, Ben? ex-communion. It doesn't sound familiar just by name, but, I mean, did we see them in Corona or Riverside? That was our first show that Joe showcased threw us on, and then... I was at the show, I just don't remember the band.

Yeah, you probably wanted like the three people there. It's great. No, I think there was legit eight of us. Almost hit ten. No, we had eight friends, and all eight of them showed up. Yes, that's it. They called it an A-plus. But it was those first few shows.

And then Justin had left the band. Michael Heiser was already playing bass at the time. I had started to play drums. So why did you start playing drums? Oh, I don't know. It's funny. I was supposed to play guitar in Dying Dreams. Really?

I never knew that. Yeah, Brandon Treyhan and Josh Tafano were, I vividly remember them in my room teaching me the parts and I wasn't very good at guitar but I think just by association you get an advantage in the market, right?

Better to who you know rather than what you know. But the band, I must have been me because the band broke up two days later so they probably thought, oh God, this is not going to work. Let's just break up so we don't break Josh's heart.

But I don't know at what point I had borrowed Anthony Basto's drum set. He left it at the home I was living at, and I got my own drum set a few months later. I had probably been drumming for six months, and my drum set was in Mitch's garage, and he comes home, and he's like, hey, so Justin's out of the band, and we want you to play. And I said, who's we? Who are these people?

You've heard that Woody Allen line that I don't want to be part of a club who would have me as a member. So I said, Mitch, that's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. I said, blast beats? How do you even do that? I don't even know what that is. And he says something to the effect of just go crazy, no one will care.

I said, okay. That's what Rick did too. I could go crazy. And so I genuinely believe that it was simply because, because we were so close. We were living together. I was Mitch's ride everywhere that he thought,

this is great. Josh will get me to band practice on time. He must have convinced you or convinced Josh that this was a good idea. It was a terrible idea. Terrible idea to invite me.

He might have lied how long you've been playing. Which he actually part of the life, of course. Yeah. Or exaggerated. So he probably told you, oh, he's been playing for years.

This guy's like Derek Roddy. You know, Joey Jordinson, level and yeah so yeah that was really it it was it was very very simple um our first show do you remember where my first show was with uh with the group what was your first show was it a skate land good man dang skate land and whittier yes yeah i almost got into a scuffle on the way into the show um god i'm sure i played like garbage um it was fun but uh yeah off we went um you wait you you spot somebody? Yeah, I remember in the parking lot.

I don't know. Somebody must have said something. I have no idea. On what terms it was based on, but went into the show, anxious. You were a hot head. You were a straight-edge hot head. No, I don't think it's a straight-edge hot-head. Still straight-edge, but not so much a hot-head.

As far as I'm concerned being a stranger to the group at that time, I viewed the corona and Riverside crew. as being hotheads. So I would find that to be accurate. Dang. Well, take your word for it. When I hear about, oh, Josh in the parking lot in a fight, I'm like, he probably didn't start it, but, yeah.

Nor did I finish it. No, I was the bigger man. Peace, be the journey. Take it from cool runnings. Real quick, you were the bigger man because you're 6'4? 6.7. I need every inch. Yeah.

It's very important. Yeah, well said. Sorry, so that was your first show That was our first show Yeah, my first show with the group You know On the offhand That somebody

Wants to talk about suicide silence With me They'll ask me about You know, playing metal fests And what was it like sharing the stage With some of these giant acts And playing in front of thousands of people And I say,

I played in kitchens We played backyards, We played basements. We played barns. We played showcase. Yes, that's true. That was the mecca. But all of that came after me. I have to remind them. And yeah, and we played some fun places, some heritage-skir places. To hatchapie.

Yeah, American Legion and the like. So I don't recall it being too long after. I do want to hear from Rick, but I want to talk about our love juice, recordings. Yeah, because it seemed like, because you do like the first show with us and then not shortly after, so this is all a span of like a few years. So we already had the demo that came out 2003. I want to say we came out with something in 2004.

And we go into this at the time, low juice and Riverside, that's like where you went to record like your demo or EP. So, Gorsa, we did, which we did the first demo there, which was successful in its, in that in that scene, let's go again. And the events that would come after that was shocking.

So, how mad were you when I tracked those drums? When you heard the drums, you must have been so upset. I don't know if I was mad. Did I see mad or what? No, you were always, I think, very quiet.

He's going to let it happen? Yes, I think so. Well, I think like, Like the samples, you just let it happen. You know, I think you let Mitch and I overpower that creative aspect of the group. But yeah, I don't know. I was very, very self-aware and still am, but you go back to those recordings. And people will say, my God, I love those old recordings, like the song till the bubbles stop.

Yeah. And the first version or the second version of St. And I'm like, get out of here. Are you, I cringe. I can't listen to that stuff. I can't. I took Gabe Ochoa to the airport a couple years ago. We get in his car and he's got that playing.

Just to make me mad. He would. Oh, my God. But, you know, I think it wasn't until Rick. The bubble stopped. No, no, no. No, it wasn't until you showed up, Rick, that I really felt like it was urgent that I actually learn how to play.

Yeah. What she did, to your credit, Josh, you got, you did get a lot better because, I mean, we're forced. I mean,

none of those drums were salvageable. So basically, so you basically said, I'm sorry, right? You said, I'm sorry.

A book, another day. So, like, we left. And then you practiced for a little bit. It came back. And still,

that was the outcome. But at that time, that sound was kind of popular. You got Circle Dead Children, like terminally report of ghosts like that kind of like sloppy drums was like kind of in yeah it's true and I think looking back where you know people are nostalgic about those sloppy you know it is what it is recordings but it was all accidental no intention behind it whatsoever quite the contrary but

yeah I think when I started taking lessons with Chris Aries the uh um Drexel drummer yes who is outstanding um again a hundred times better than me it uh But, you know, I think it was a nice compliment to what Rick and Mike Botkins were bringing to the band, which was, you know, just hopefully elevating the experience. What was your take? You know, I didn't like the drums on that demo. I thought it was sloppy coming from listening to Dave Lombardo and Slayer and, you know, Metallica. and these are the bands that I first started listening to.

And so everything was like precision and fast. And, you know, I wasn't really into sludgy yet. And so, you know, my initial thought was like, I remember joining, joining up with you guys and being like, okay, you guys are in G, right? I'm like, it's too sludgy, you know, too low. I can't hear anything you guys are playing. Like, I can't decipher a riff.

and so that was I was like you know okay I guess that was my first thought but I really meshed with you Josh you know playing

playing music with you just creatively ideas coming to practice in Garza's place Garza's still you know at Ancho's working his shift

and getting ready to get off so we would do something really quick but we got to talk Donchos. Oh, yeah, go ahead. Of course. Yeah, I really just messed with you creatively.

So, you know, I hear you guys talking about that recording, you know, it's just a bad experience. But, yeah, just creatively, I guess it was fun to play with you and write music. So, yeah, how did you enter the picture, Rick? I was in a group called Torn Within. That's how we had all met each other. You know, we were like each other's competition, us being in Elsinore, you guys being in Corona Riverside. So we had played shows together. And I remember thinking, like, I can't hear anything these guys are playing, but they're going crazy.

So I remember that. Torn Within breaks up. Justin's getting ready to join the Marine Corps. And then you give me a call. I remember being in my parents' bedroom getting the call on a, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, landline and Rick it's for you meho and you knew exactly what and yeah I think Justin had prepped me like oh I talked to Chris and so you're like dude uh you know do you want to play with us we have some shows coming up and at that time you know being in Tormithan we were just starting to play

some good shows and I was like uh the idea of playing more shows sounds great and um and yeah you know I didn't really know any of you guys other than playing a few shows. So I was like, yeah, let's cool, you know. I felt like I had a hot hand at the moment writing songs torn within. We had just gotten done writing an EP and recording it. And then no one kind of heard it because the band broke up. It was an amazing EP too. So it gave me, it gave me, I was like, oh, cool, platform to keep writing music.

And so that's how I entered the picture. That must have been late 2004 or beginning of. of 05. I think you have firmly 04. And I do want us to take a moment to really appreciate what torn within meant to us, that EP, your demo, the EP that John Shelley played on drums. And this is one of my favorite memories. You had gone into your room alone to listen to it.

Oh, you? Were you there? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, we all were. Okay, let's do it. So we had already heard it. Mitch and I had already listened to it.

We gave it over to you so you could go here. You went into your bedroom, lock the door. And a few minutes later, you came out to the garage and you said, I quit. Yeah, it's true. It's exactly what it was no finer compliment. It was so downing for all of us because it was so good. Pick a song. I mean, Hero No More.

The build up to that, the breakdown. So good. John Shelley, again, just a hundred times the drummer I ever could be. Your writing is outstanding. Justin's vocals were sick. Major, major motivator for all of us. So that's when I entered the picture. That recording that we're talking about had just gotten done.

And then we broke up. Then I get a call from you. This is late 04. I joined the band with you guys. Normal Josh, as Big Josh points out. I don't remember why he was leaving the band, but I remember Josh and Mike both were leaving at the, and Tanner, I guess.

They were all kind of leaving at the same time. Yeah. And so Bodkins playing with us and torn within. We just kind of naturally joined forces. So like torn within and suicide silence coming together. And I just remember Mitch and Chris specifically being like, we're in your garage or in the practice room and you guys being like, I've got my guitar, you know, on.

And you guys are like, like, we don't want any hardcore parts. Because Torr Within, you know, it was like some two-step parts and just some like straight, straight hardcore parts. That's kind of what Toorn Within was, was, you know, death metal, some, you know, lots of breakdowns. And then, you know, I was like, well, I'm seeing what people do to two-step parts. Like, let's throw some parts in like that. Anyway, so Torin Within did that. And then you guys were like, no two-step parts. And I was like, no big deal, you know.

That was the only criteria. Yeah, no two-step. It was like my first, I don't know, I guess it was like my first real job. Because here are all these guys that I don't really know that well. And they're asking me to fill a role and to kind of like play my part. And so it kind of felt like, yeah, no problem. Like I said, I wanted to play shows. I had some, I had been writing what I thought was cool music at the time.

So, yeah, I'll never forget. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Mitch and Garza just being like, no two-step parts. Don't do any hardcore parts. And, you know, just brutal, heavy, you know. And so, yeah, that's what happened. And I remember also because playing live was an element to us at the time that was, I think, made us stand out. And, yeah, Mitch being like, or was you, like, just make sure you go crazy when you're

playing. And I was like, okay, well, it's easy to, it's easy to do that when everyone else in the band is already doing it. Yeah. So I was like, oh, well, I don't want to stand out like a sore thumb. So yeah, that's what I remember of joining up at that time. And we had met you in a basement, you know, that came out wrong. Yeah, I did.

You don't, yes, Canyon Lake, yeah, City Hall. You met me at City Hall. Yeah, that invokes like Pulp Fiction vibes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was quite wholesome. Yeah, basement of Canyon Lake City Hall. You guys were playing. We all rolled out me, Chris, Mitch.

And again, you were as good live as you were and recording. And, you know, I remember looking at Mitch, looking at Chris, like, well, there it is, boys. We're done. Like, we're out of the game here. Yeah, true. I do want to go back to really emphasize the importance of Josh Tafano and what he brought to the mix. You listen to the first track on the Death Awaits demo, victim of... Victim of tragedy.

Victim of tragedy. heavy heavy song it's got some it's got the the song that hooked me in um but half that song is a deaf tone song half that song is white pony um you have that stylish again just clean guitar you know just in doing those beautiful licks and then tanner you know speak singing you know or talk singing um and i think you know i don't want to speak for you but you're a deaf tones fan Of course. As am I, big time. But Josh, I think, really was strongly motivated by deaf tones.

And there may be some other new metal stuff. And it makes me sad, Rick, because he was a big Mars Volta fan. And maybe he still is. I don't know. But I know you were at the time. And I feel like the two of you really would have gelled musically. And I don't think... Did you even meet?

Have you ever met him? Yeah. I mean, when our two bands separately were playing shows together, you know, I had met all you guys. That's true. Yeah, and Josh, yeah, just a humble, friendly dude. He wasn't afraid to smile at shows and, you know, say what's up. Yeah, he was cool, cat. And Josh, I'm just programmed to say literally Josh.

I know, I know, I know. So Josh, yeah, so, yeah, he played guitar in. one of Mitch's first band, dying in dreams. And then obviously, we have suicidants, and Justin and the drummer and Josh were brothers.

So once, so once obviously the drummer, I mean, the drummer leaves, the brothers, so it's just kind of, we all knew, okay, once, like,

the older brother leaves, but it's kind of waiting for, like, the younger brother type, to kind of go to this family. Yeah, it was a matter of time. Yeah. It's,

uh, it's funny that I would show up for practice. You know, we'd be rehearsing. sing, I'd walk in, and Josh would be on the drums. Josh was 10 times the drummer. Forget, Justin was like, you know, a thousand times better than me. Josh was like 10 times better than me.

He could do blast beats at like 190 BPM. He could, listen to this, he could hold a tempo. Wow, could you imagine? Could you imagine having a drummer that could keep time? He was so good, and I always felt so self-conscious walking in there like, God, the guitar player is killing me on the drums. What am I going to do? I'd walk in smelling like anchos quite often.

I think we should really appreciate anchos and the 10 friends in our circle that all work there. You know, you're still one of Dean's favorites, you know that? Really? Oh, yeah. He doesn't care about me. I walk in and he's like, Josh, where's Garza? I said, oh, Dean, you know. Oh, goodness.

I don't know. He's in Europe. You know, he's playing Wacken or, you know, some festival. He's like, well, tell him, give my best. Now, what can I do for you, sir? You know? How long did you work there? How long were you prep cooking and cooking?

Two years. So, yeah, so you were cooked there that highly respected. So when you, you know, you put the good word in for me. So I got the job. That was my first job as a dishwasher. I was there for two years, maybe even longer. Yeah. I work my ass off.

I loved it. I love washing beans off plates. Everyone who works at a restaurant is working pretty hard. Yeah. At the time, when you joined Suicide Silence Work, were you at Starbucks? I think I was. Yeah. Yeah.

You did work at Starbucks, huh? I was there for a long time because they were so good with hours. Like, oh, I'll just work at 4 in the morning so I can play the show at. Or Papa Johns. Didn't you work at Papa Johns too? I did work at Papa John's delivering pizza. Man, that Honda. In Menifee, it was super hot, and I had no AC,

and the pizzas are cooking in the car, the leather seats are hot. It was, yeah. Sick. That was after suicide silence, though. Chris, you mentioned how hard you worked at Anchos, and it's true. I saw it. You had a work ethic, a very strong work ethic, and I think that is obvious in,

your art, you know, in what you do now. I think you're sitting in it, for one, but also the fact that the band has maintained for so long, it really speaks to your character. Your character is defined by, I think, perseverance. Look at what you've overcome in the last 11 years alone. Double that, and you have the full length of the band to date. You know, you're a work. You're a man and I hope you do appreciate and I hope others and I'm sure they do other people in your life really appreciate and respect the hard worker that you are because it's evident thank you I'm gonna pile on top of that because I'm glad you started that Josh yeah when we when we spoke in Denver I told you that you know you had made a lot of sacrifices and obviously we hadn't talked for

such a long time, but I knew that you had made a lot of sacrifices. And, you know, people, yeah, anyone working towards something is sacrificing. So, so yeah, just want to add on to what Josh said and, you know, throw some more kudos at you. And yeah, man, you've sacrificed a lot to to be where you are. So I recognize it. And yeah, thanks. We appreciate you giving us a platform. No, I mean, I appreciate you guys even being here because, I mean, yeah, there was a moment in our lives where, like, we weren't speaking, you know, like, who was, who's the first member to leave? Was you, Rick or? No, it was, it was me. Okay. Yeah, we.

What happened? So, uh, we had made the, the video for destruction of a statue. It started blowing up. We, you know, Jerry is entering the picture and we're, you know, Jerry is entering the picture and we're. he's he's single-handedly befriending everyone on my space and we're um so we're blowing up we had played some short tours and again because i was an athlete at uCR i could only and my parents were also helping pay for school so it was like i know that i kind of naturally saw my end in sight it was like oh hey you know um we're all getting together as a band talking about like we're going to set this tour up to go play, and it's going to be during this time. And I was like, well, I can't really do that.

So, you know, come this time of year, I'll be leaving. So that's how that happened. Yeah. And so, yeah. I do recall it now being sort of a... It was pretty natural. Yeah, a natural thing. But also we were aware that it was coming, just given, I think, the circumstances of where your life was headed.

Yeah, my parents, them, you know, my family Playda has always supported, supported me financially, if you will. I mean, as they do most of their kids at that age. But paying for school and me not doing that well in school at that time, I think I had felt a lot of guilt. And so being like, oh, hey, Mom, I'm going to play full time, I'm going to play full time in this death metal band

to, you know, and quit school. So, yeah, to me, it was just like, you know, I can't really do that. And at the time, there wasn't any animosity. Yeah. I don't remember it being positive. No, it was. It was just pretty basic. It was pretty basic.

Ours wasn't, but we'll get into that. Okay. Yeah, it was pretty basic for me. At least that's from my perspective. Yeah, I agree. It was just the decision. to ride with the sort of trajectory that I was on at that time. And then eventually I ended up quitting school anyways.

And, you know, it didn't seem all for not because I did, you know, finish school someplace else. I was going to say, give yourself credit for going back and, you know, finishing that. So I don't know what direction you guys wanted to go, but since we're talking about this time, frame. I always thought it was interesting that, so we had recorded a demo at the Pit Bull Farm in Hesperia and that, and it was just one song. We recorded Bludgeon to death, just the one song in Hesperia. And obviously that song is, you know, monumental for a lot of people. I think Garza's of that super slow breakdown was something that everyone latched onto wherever that song was performed live.

I remember us playing that up in Sacramento area or somewhere up there and people being all about that part. And then afterwards, we recorded the EP. And I always thought I was curious. I'm like, why didn't we put that song on the EP? because that song existed before the EP. I forgot about that. Yeah, we tracked that only one song,

which we went to Pitfall because of you. Yeah, because Tornwood had that sick demo that almost made me quit. And then we, oh, well, that play sounds good, so let's go there. And that was really, I didn't even thought about that, Rick. Like, that was kind of like the first moment where it's like we're kind of honing in

on like this dynamic that hasn't been done before. Like the thrash part with like these crazy slow breakdowns, like these vocals. And then, you know, yeah, Rick and Josh, I mean, you really helped create that sound. You know, I guess kids not really knowing what we're doing. None of us, I think, knew what we were doing. I recently tried this at Home Depot. There was a senior citizen of gentlemen, and I just tapped him on the shoulder and said, hey, I invented Death Corps.

And he just... Got him. He just shook his head and walked away. On the way over here, again... Again... Or better or mostly worse. Yeah, mostly worse. On the way over here, we were listening to the EP

just again trying to bring up those memories and try to bring richness to the conversation and one of the, every song had one of those thrash beats, right? That was my go-to. But that was really, that wasn't, again, creativity. That was literally Mitch in the corner going, okay, just do it. You know, he'd make that face and just say,

do one of these parts, you know? Okay, now one of these, you know. Because music theory, measures, and, you know, time. I didn't even hear the word measure until, you know, Rick showed up. Before that, it was just, you know, Mitch using his arms and gesticulating to explain what kind of part we should be doing. Or we'd reference bands, right? We'd say, do an at the gates part right here.

Okay, I get that. Okay, at the gates. Okay, now do like a shadowed realm, you know, kind of deal. All right, do some tombs like wrench. Yeah, yeah, do some, do some wrench next. Yeah. Now it might be a good time to point out what's what is within this. Okay.

This sarcophagus. Are we going to open up the Evalt? It is a vault, isn't it? It's a time capsule. The graduating class of 2004 suicide silence left this time capsule. This has been opened since 2006. However, it has not been added to. Oh, nice.

Nor has anything come out of it since 2006. It's a capsule. It's a capsule, absolutely. Case logic, for all of you youngsters, was... Case logic, for all of you youngsters, this was the vessel. This was the medium in which music was transported between people. But, okay, but there's also a secret in here that I'm, you know, somewhat scared. Quick, close it.

Yeah, mothedize out. Don't let anything out. It's like the Ark of the Covenant, right? just goolies melting our faces, but there's, no, I have to, I have to. So, right. Well, just look right up front. Look at right, right up front. Look at that.

Okay, so second page of this thing is a secret. Chris, you recognize this, right? Did I bring no CDs for you? Those are your CDs. Oh, they're mine. I just never gave them back. Oh, thank you. And here they are.

Um, were we almost 17 years later, um, you're welcome. But yeah, this is the, uh, this speaks to what it is we were listening to, you know, it's D-Mu Borgor, it's ranch, it's origin, it's musuga, clearly. Um, there's one actually, I did notice I wanted to. Electives lost. Seven Angels, Seven Plagues. Yes. That doesn't get talked about enough.

God, there was one though I wanted to really see if you knew what it was. This. Do you recognize this? Yes. Okay, hang on, hang on. If you recognize this, I brought an award. Would you mind reading what that says? Best Chris? Best Chris.

Okay. You get this best Chris pen, uh, pin, excuse me. Okay. Brought to you by Nate Little. There's a pin maker.

Great guy, I know. He just happened to have one of these. If you can name the artist. This is happy. Man, well done. Head P. Right?

This is head P.E. That is head P.E. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was... This is their first record. Yes, that's their first record.

I don't... If someone had a gun on my head, then what is the cover of that record, I will not know. But just because I see it and feel it. I kind of, it kind of just chain linked. Yeah. It's Head P.E. Rick on the way over mentioned blood has been shed. Yeah.

I don't think there's a more influential band for me personally. What about you, Rick? When it came to super brutal breakdowns, I had never heard anything like some of the breakdowns on here. And what I mean specifically music-wise is it was like a different meter. It wasn't just 4-4. It was some off-time breakdown. And that was influential. Also, the chords.

They weren't just playing a power chord to play their breakdowns. they were using some very unusual notes, unusual chords, which to me that really latched on, because it's like, okay, you know, we're playing all these sludgy, heavy, you know, slam parts that are just kind of straightforward chords. I heard this, and it's like these chords are even nastier, you know, harmony-wise. And so that influenced me, like, anytime I was playing a breakdown now, it was like, Let me draw in this note to make this chord sound just that much more disgusting. So that was an idea.

But also, like... And we're talking about the record spirals. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So... Came out of 2003. The... Like the, like I was talking about the meter, just the off-time stuff.

To me, that was very interesting because it, to... To me, it broke up the monotony of, okay, let's just play this beat and then play this heavy part, then play this fast beat again, and then go into a breakdown. To me, the off-time stuff was like, let's throw this before our breakdown, because then when we all play in unison during the breakdown, it'll sound that much more. Yeah. It just gives people a different flavor, and yeah, this did that for me. What a crazy record.

I remember someone standing outside showcase. And being, they were like, they were having a conversation. A member, like, vividly his face saying, this is this record from a band called Bletch's Meshet called Spirles. Like, this is like the heaviest record I've ever heard. It's like, it's this ingrained in my head. And that's what made me, oh, who, who's his band? I mean, listen.

I mean, listen to Bledge Mchette Spirles. So, yeah. So the music, we're talking about the music, but then the vocals, obviously. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, the vocals were just very disgusting. And then he sings, and you're good with it, you know. That's cool. There's a, like, track five or six is a ballad, you know, and it's gorgeous.

And don't cheat people. Listen to the whole album, but there's a payoff. The final song, Cortizone, that buildup. Oh, the buildup. Oh, my Lord. That's something that's been lost in songwriting, I've realized. The buildup? Like, this buildups.

That this kind of, this will just take you to, like, this other dimension of heaviness, dude. Musical foreplay. That's a other way to put it. A lost art. Oh, shout out to oblige. Look at this beauty. And I'm not talking expectance. I'm talking Operation Bloodshed demo.

Shout out to Greg Wilburne and Martin and Greg and all those homies. Yeah, for a quick year, he sang for a fit for autopsy. And him and Mitch are like best friends. Lucky them, because Greg is still, I mean, I know he's one of my best friends, but he's phenomenal, I think, one of the most underrated vocalists ever. Yeah. So fun stuff, you know, I was never a Shadow's Fall fan, but that's in there. It's in there. So is the soundtrack to 28 days later. Shout out 28 days later.

It's crazy how he kept this. Well, sure. I mean, there's only a few things. Because I've moved probably four or five times since 06, but, you know, CDs were the only medium of music for a while, so had to keep a hold of it. Yeah, so these must be returned to you. Not all of these are yours, but the ones that are... A lot of burnt CDs. A lot of burnt CDs, I would say. Of course.

You know, we went and saw, we ran into each other at the Musugga Show in October. And the Sinai Beach guitar player was there. Please forgive me. Mike? No, not Mike. Oh, I feel terrible. I only met him a couple times, but we were chatting. And I was sharing with him that Sinai Beach was also a big influence.

That demo and then their first album, really heavy stuff. I know that Mike wrote most of that stuff. Yeah, really, really heavy. So Sinai Beach, I think, played a role. You know, to go back to, I think we should back up, I do want to talk about, you know, he talked about Rick's exit. We'll talk a little bit about my exit, but not popular.com. I'm sure you recall that. I remember when we had put out our first demo, it was after the Death Awaits demo, and then we had put out the Love Juice demo, the one with the,

the violent image on the cover and everything. And we almost broke up after that recording. Because it was... We almost broke up. Yeah, because it was that upsetting. You know? Well, as you said, the drum tracks were unsalvageable. And that is, I'm sure, one of the common perils of joining a band with friends

is that you have to balance friendship with collaboration. You know, people just laugh. They latched onto something else, though. They latched on to the live performance and suicide silence going crazy. And they latched on to the vocals. So, you know, anyways. No, it's a good point. No, you're right.

You're right. And that was, I think, a selling point for a while, wasn't it? Is that, well, you have to see them live to understand it, you know? But at that point, it's like, isn't it like saying that, oh, yeah, I just watched fear and loathing. It's awful. And then someone says, no, you have to watch it high. And then you'll understand it. You got to watch the musical fear and loathing.

Like, no, yeah. You got to do mushroom, blah, well, be naked. Yeah, but it just, it's like, okay, so you need some kind of, you know, intoxicated, you need to be in an intoxicated state to appreciate it. That's, that's almost worse. Yeah, it makes you feel good. That's good. But yeah, we had almost broke up for sure, and I think, you know.

Remember I was him, John Shelley, and then, and then you and Mitch found out? I may, I don't recall that. But that would have been a good idea because Shelley was stellar for sure. But notpopular.com. So, you know, our name got out there. And I vividly remember the description that somebody had put up there. When suicide silence became a topic on not pop. And the one person had posted, it sounds like hardcore kids trying to play death metal and doing a piss poor job.

That's pretty accurate. looking back, it makes me grin, you know, uncontrollably. But I know at the time that was very upsetting. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're like, what the fuck you? Yeah, yeah. Let's find this kid, you know, who's ex, Jackrabbit X or whatever.

But looking back, that's quite funny. And I think that it's not far off because, again, we were simply attempting to emulate eternal suffering and disgorge and all the rest of it. But, you know, those were very practiced and very, I would say, technically proficient musicians doing what they did. And I tried to skip all that. I tried to do blast beats just by hearing it. Yeah. And thinking, okay, the snare drum is happening here a lot.

God, there's a lot of snare drum. So I just have to hit the snare drum as quickly as possible, and it'll work out. But I didn't learn meter or, you know, tempo until Rick came along and then taking lessons with Chris. But, yeah, Rick, you came in and took music to a whole new level. And to your, maybe that subconsciously, you know, push Josh a lot more. And then, to your credit, Josh, I mean, once that terrible day at Love Juice, we had to go back and redo drums to the EP was, that was a massive jump. And I don't, it's a, it's a moment that, you know, whenever I look back,

it's just a fond memory. It's like, we didn't really know what we were doing. And that EP that was really caught on, like, nationally and like worldwide, you know, like, do you remember us recording that in a, in someone's garage? Yeah. Which one? We recorded that at Nick Rundahu's place. Randawa, yeah, Nick Randawa, also known as Nika Singh, shout out to Nick.

Yeah, he produced that whole album. And you're right, it was a studio. I mean, he made it look nice. He made it really, really slick. But yeah, there was a job. I'm sure I recognize that. A massive joke. From the old EP to the ending is the beginning EP.

That is not the theme drummer. Well, again, that's lessons, right? It's a little bit of progress and encouragement. And threats also help, you know. You never threatened me. I want to say, too, we tuned up, I think, a half step. Like I said, when we joined, I was like, geez, I can't hear anything we're playing in G. So how about A-flat?

and that makes a difference. I bet you heard. I bet you heard the guitars better. I remember asking Josh, like, can you hear what I'm playing? And him being like, not really. And I just turned the cabinet directly to his ear. And he's like, oh, that's better. So, you know, hearing and practicing, I'm sure made a big difference.

Yeah. Well, I'm sure it did. Yeah, that was a good recording. yeah I think and by that point I think we have met Jerry and he was helping to kind of guide and push things along and

I just want to point out not musically I just want to make sure that that's out out there when you said guide and push I just want to be like no no no musically we were doing our thing yeah yeah no I think just the the apparatus the overall project

the collaboration the the work the touring etc. Promotion. I mean, Jerry's an animal when it comes to promotion. I'd imagine he still is,

but at the time he was quite good at it. So yeah, fire off some more some more EP questions or things that jog your memory about that time because, yeah,

I know that that EP. Once that EP came out, that's when the copycats really started to spread amongst California, then it started slowly going in like a national base. You know, so in a

Obviously there is like that you go towards like a not pop comment It's so simple but it's like it when you're a kid you read that you're like the fuck but we really were hardcore kids This plain death metal terribly and it just came out in a way where like we we latched on to something Yeah, you know we latch on to something and there was like these little moments that literally like I mean it's swam still here I mean little things like you know Rick joining us going back to A and Rick you I remember watching Torinthin listing Torintham like that what is what the fuck's you playing and you had this PV 51 52 through a Marshall straight cab which pretty much ingrained everything I do

today still will tell me it has to be straight cab yeah and I list uh if it wasn't for you I mean I wouldn't have gotten a PV 51 52 and that really created and like put the stamp on that kind of tone. I remember you going amp after amp. I'm like Garza's putting in hours at Onchos and he's using it to buy each amp one by one, try them out, play them, play them live. And then like, nope. I remember coming to practice and you're being like, I'm like, what is this?

Got rid of it. Got this mesa. I mean, I don't remember all the amps. VHT, was that an amp? VHT, right? I mean, like I said, Chris kind of ran the gambit of like trying all. of really trying them all to find out what he liked. Well, again, that's going back to your character of persistence.

You were searching for a sound. You were searching for a tone. And Chris was like, no, it's got to be a 50-150. It's got to be a Marshall straight cab. Why did you specifically get that amp? I think it was because I was following throwdown. Like, you know, I was being introduced to Throwdown Records. And, yeah, I think I saw a live video.

of them playing that and I was like yeah I want to get a 5150 but it's such a crazy accident that there's a big difference between a 50 150 and a 50 152 yeah and

obviously you know we see we saw bands like throw down putting 318 visions they had the 501 50 but the fact it seems like you accidentally got the two and said fuck it I'm buying it I looked it up online there was only one place that had it and it was all the way in San Diego. I was working on the roof with my stepdad,

saved up that money, asked him if they had it in stock, went down there. And then came the topic of cab and I was like, I'm not sure what I should use. And I remember the person, the salesman, being like, well, you know, this, this Marshall straight cab, you know, probably be a good fit for it. Oh, so it's actually like 5150 raised to the two. It's their, okay. Their second of it. Yeah. And, yeah, so I remember reading about it after the fact. Recently, when we had met up in Denver, I had been doing research.

And I was like, what was the difference? And for the most part, it was just like, this is our second attempt at it. But they did make some amendments to the higher frequencies. And to me, it just cuts through a mix a little bit. bit better. The 5150 original just seemed like it was a little bit more muddy. It's so weird.

So crazy. It was an accident. Yeah, I guess. And then I was playing through an Ibanez RG and I think it's DeMarzio pickups that are in that and

yeah, I just used everything stock on the guitar. I have my next one liner for Home Depot. I'll just tap someone on the shoulder and say, you know, there's a big difference between the 50-150 and the 51-52 and just... Boom. Yeah, and someone's just like two? That guy knows his amps, you know.

You have to pick up these one-liners. Rick, on the way over here, we were listening to ending as the beginning and, again, trying to stimulate our recollection. But I asked you, because you always bring up Slayer quite frequently. as a major influence on you and Justin, Justin Smith, a vocalist writer for Toram Within. And I asked you, was there any of that in the EP? And you did find some spots.

You know, when you brought that question up, I was like, hmm, I'm not sure now. Oh, that's what prompted us to turn it on then. And then so the first track on there is ending is the beginning. And it's like, nah, not really. It's not really evident in there. But kind of. So what I picked up from Slayer was like their sick harmonies.

You know, Carrie King's playing the riff right here, but Jeff is playing it somewhere else, and it puts together that really dissonant or minor harmony. And I was like, that sounds evil. That was always my word to describe, like, oh, that harmony. So I think there's some of that harmony between Chris and I, where I'm playing a riff here, Chris is playing it someplace else.

But specifically on... Terribly. What's that? Terribly, yes. No, no. But specifically, Slayer comes out on Swarm. And it's that... It's the riff that he goes...

Dan... Da, d'an... There's, like, that fast riff, and then there's a chord behind it, and the chord is, again, this, like, dissonant chord. But that riff in general is, like, we never would have done that. I never would have done that.

I never would have done that if it wasn't for Slayer. And, yeah. But the harmony, that fast riff and swarm, you know, basically circle pit parts for me, thrashy circle pit parts that saw Slayer. And that's another way that we constructed songs was it was either Mitch's body language or it was saying, okay, here's the breakdown and then we need to circle pit part. So literally using cues from a show to drive the songwriting process. So funny.

I'm sure many young kids and people do that. But I always thought that was a unique, a unique way to approach it. Like let's make this, you know, let's associate our physical experiences, what it is we observe at a show and put that into our songwriting. Interesting. Well, it's true, isn't it? I mean, we would say people are going to go nuts for this part, you know, or if we wrote something, you know, you wrote the first breakdown ending is the beginning. And then Chris and Mitch come in to hear it.

We were excited to show you that, that big gap in between the, that, yeah. We all started laughing because we thought it was so much fun. I'll never forget, Chris walking. We're like, yeah, Chris is standing at the door. I think actually we might have been in the middle of playing it and Chris walks in. And he's just like, like, just that face, that face. There it is. And yeah, Chris.

But, yeah, Slayer for me was, I mean, I feel like I was a better guitar player because I was learning south of heaven and Angel of Death and these songs from them. but the harmony thing harmonizing guitars you know i always i always found that to be interesting like oh it's cool when both guitars play unison but what's even better is if the guitars play harmony before the breakdown and then when we play unison it sounds that much more heavy that much more impactful so that was kind of the influence about a plane crash what was that thing's a Songs fucked. Things a mess, but it's fun. So, again, just thinking about, like,

so we got all these sludgy, heavy parts, and it's like, that's cool, we're all playing in unison. There's, you know, the tempo slows down. It was like, I always felt like the way you get in and out of a part, especially a breakdown, the way you get in and come out of it, like, to me that's what makes the breakdown either memorable or more interesting. was like, here's this heavy breakdown, but what if the thing that we do right before it

is we're playing high-pitched notes, doing some riff high up, so that when the breakdown drops in, we get to the first fret and playing open. So in about a plane crash, there's, well, I'm thinking about swarm specifically, but, and then dying fetus. When I heard dying fetus and just there,

They're heavy parts. They're not breakdowns. They're heavy parts. That's how I always saw a dying fetus. I was like, oh, so I don't always have to play a breakdown. I can just think of this next part as being a heavy part. And if the drums are playing the beat fast first, a blast beat, we're playing something heavy, which is counterintuitive at the time of like, oh, if there's a fast beat, then we play a fast riff.

And it was like, no. Drums are playing fast. We're playing slow. and then when Josh would go into, you know, kind of playing slower chuggy, chuggy with us. To me, that was everything. Specifically in a butterplane crash, the ticcadine, ticcadine, ching, ching, chichik. Yeah, so like, that's my favorite part until this day is that ticcdain, ticcadine, the harmonies, and then heavy. And so, dying fetus.

That was dying fetus. dying fetus. You point out that they're not breakdowns, but I have seen a young man in the dying fetus pit. Everybody circle pitting, push-moshing, except for one young man who is hardcore dancing. That was you in the corner. So I think that, again, amazing. Visually, it just, I think, represents how you were in the milieu of two separate genres almost, right? It was always trying to be, like, being like, I'm not sure the right way to put it, like, middleman, but I wanted to pushmosh and dance, you know, and it's just kind of what he's done. Yeah, and why wouldn't you?

You can make a burrito with Alfredo sauce. Why not? Yeah. I do not recommend that. No. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. you were always super passionate about you were always very passionate about about music um you know and

um i just found that to be you know really like pushed that that in a way was a catalyst also to be like for me anyways to be like what can i do that would be that chris when he walks in makes that face of like this is this is sick so that was also a catalyst too was to try to try and just be a little bit different. So like Swarm has that really chaotic part before the breakdown towards the end of the song. And Josh just shared with me why Mitch called that song Swarm. Oh, it was because of the, like, just the really... Yeah, he's like that sounds like a B-Swarm.

It sounds like a B-Swarm. I'm going to call it Swarm. But the idea was like, yeah, trying to be different and, you know, and just trying to be interesting musically. Like, how about we throw in this weird, this weird off-time sort of part? Again, back to blood has been shed and their off-time breakdowns. Yeah, I just... Swarm was also sort of a momentous song because...

It was the first time we had, I think, tried to structure a song. it was the first time we tried to actually bring parts back. And there wasn't a chorus, but there was a... Trying to bring something back. Something, yeah. And I don't think we'd ever done that until that song. And again, I think... There's hints of it in Bludgeon to Death, too.

There's a fast riff in the beginning that after the breakdown, I think it comes back. But I guess that's pretty subtle. Then your D. Muebueborder fandom comes out swarm because it's got that evil sound that yeah like some a little bit of some dissonant harmony um i was really into demi bulgear's uh i don't i think it's their first album or maybe second the album covers purple it's got like a woman chained up on it anyhow that's nice j i know um that's not nice uh so um yeah um yeah that their sound the yeah that was

influential. Yeah, sort of like a black metal. Black metal. I would love to say I was in a black metal band, but I know black metal fans are like, no, Suicide Salinas is not black metal.

Oh my God, that would, they would find me and kill me. But we had some parts on the EP that were like, yeah, you know, four more minutes of this. Oh yeah, this is straight. But, you know, that I

of just meshing like, okay, like we can have circle pit fast parts, but what if it sounded more black metal, you know, that would be cool, sound more interesting. Well, it raises a fun question. Would you, Chris, would you rather be genre defining

or genre defying? A. Yeah. And it's funny because you're kind of both, aren't you? Because at the time, nobody knew what to do with us. At the time, no one knew what the fuck, yeah, it was going on.

Because only Gabe was really, Gabe Ocho was the only reason we were able to play shows because we were friends, nothing more. It wasn't until I think we started playing a showcase and we were able to hear each other a little bit better than maybe it gave us a leg up. But do you remember any of those like backyard shows in Watts or Riverside, San Bernardino, Remember a few of them. The sound, I mean, painful, like playing outdoors. I don't think what we did was conducive to outdoors.

No. But that's where the live show really kicks in. If it sounds like shit, at least has to look good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. The aesthetics matter. That was part of the reason why, you know, it was like a cue for people to go.

nuts at a show was because well if the band is going nuts to this part then we should go nuts to this part so I I don't know I think the hell is going on on the fucking computer right now I think the I think the live show stuff was so what is a backyard really made us backyard in high grove where I don't even know what's high there's Josh hey yeah that sounds about right all you hear is a snare and symbol that's sick it also uh goes to show the importance of

uh working your ass off and buying your as sick as half stack work in a starbucks or being a dishwasher we fucking worked your ass off to to buy our gear yeah just in case you play a shitty backyard show well we should have invested in

invested in lights pretty pretty dark there um and so that i mean I don't ugly drummer in that that added to the ambiance like it's all dark and there's some brutal music playing like outside like and people are swinging their arms right in front of you it was like you know those shows stuff like that was memorable um I was wondering like what like was there a time like like to any of us like oh like we're like we're doing something like something's like something's like something's like connecting because it was I don't know what there was there was. no death court scene or shows to play.

He just kind of play hardcore shows, like a technical show here and there. I was kind of thinking back, like if something happened or, dude, Rick, you're going insane there. Holy fucking Molly.

That's us at Redlands. That's at the backyard show? No, would you say it's in Redlands? That means I'm playing a Les Paul. Of course, game posted all these. You got that Gibson Les Paul was sick.

That was my first show playing a Les Paul. Style points for the Les Paul. Yes. I mean, at least I thought. There's Nick. You can see Nick Rendell in the bygone shirt, the pistols. Damn, Mike with the wristbands. Really bringing that like pseudo-gontlet style.

Who else played that show? Probably Death Star. Probably Death Star. Shit, that's sick. But to your point, to your point, though, is that where did we play and who did we play with? I guess we'd have to go back and look at the flyers for some of this stuff. But Death Metal, I think, did it. You didn't want us.

No, at all. They were like, no way. Still kind of with that way. I mean, yeah. There are still people who are just like, call it death metal if it's only death metal. Hey, yeah. But we did play Abordid's first West Coast show. That was sick.

How cool was that? Yeah. Right? Meeting those legends. We played with phobia early on. You did or torn within? I don't think we did. I thought we played with phobia.

I don't recall that. man god forbid god forbid sick um between the buried and me yeah we play with BT Bam

god what an influence silent circus was on us of course mind blowing for me it was the first one their first their first record that's that

again to talk about the off time stuff and swarm like between the buried and me had all these weird what I just would call weird parts I was like oh

that makes it interesting before you go into a heavy breakdown. Yeah, the SEPTal came out in 2002. Wow. Yeah. So title, man. It was nuts. I want to bring up the Garza Blast. Okay. So you were very insistent that I learned how to do a Euroblast.

I had found a video by Kevin Talley. Kevin Talley. Yeah. Great, great drummer video, instructional video that really helped, you know, get my tempo and my blast sounding more like a real blast beat. But almost every day you'd be on the kitten, you would say, it's this, you know, and you do those bell on, you know, Euroblass. Garza would get on the drum kit, yep. So that's good to point out that Garza was playing drums too.

I couldn't get, yes, very well. I just, I couldn't get that in between, you know. But every once in a while I'd nail it and you'd always go like, yeah, like that while we were playing. It was like we were on a roller coaster together. Blast beats, I remember the first time I ever heard of blast beat was a kid named Aaron Mitchell had come over to my house. It was like fifth grade. And he brought Ace Ventura.

And, you know, the famous Cannibal Corp scene. That's right. Which song is that? How much smash face? Is it? Oh, fantastic. So it's still Christmas. Barnes at the time. Shout out the Chris Barnes.

The man. Yeah. And again, for me it stuck. That was so good. That stuck and just remembering it's just snare. It's just rapid snare over and over again. But it wasn't until watching that Kevin Talley video

and then you insisting on playing the Garza blast that there were versions of it. Yeah. One time Brandon Trahan came over and he was on the kit blasting and he's just ripping, right? Because he's so phenomenal.

And I don't think there's ever been a drummer who's come over and played that I wasn't, that I was better than. It was either Shelley or Josh or Brandon, everybody, Chris Aries just killing it. So, yeah, I think it's a miracle that you kept me around for four years, truthfully. And probably supplemented by the fact that we were friends prior to the band. And I was doing co-workers. Co-workers. Co-workers, yeah. Doing other things to try and support the band as a project.

Family friend. Family friend at that point. Sure, sure. Mitch's ride. So maybe that factored into it. I do want to talk about the exit, but before doing that, and I hope I'm not monopolizing too much of this. The samples, the family guy samples.

Yes. Did that bother you? No, I was just really confused Because I remember like Well for one, like we're at Love Juice again Because the first attempt was Was not exactly great And we go back and then okay

It's done and you and Mitch were like throwing on Hey, hey put this sample like in front of front of a song I remember hearing I remember like that's a vivid memory I have Sitting down on the couch because they're mixing it And you guys were laughing I was not laughing I see.

But I wasn't mad or like, no. It was like, they're laughing. I don't know what's going on. And then they just kind of, it just, no one said, take it out. It didn't stop us. So, yeah. So, you know, we were in the car. I don't know where we were driving, but it was just me and Mitch.

And then I suggested to him. We were in love with family guy. It was, I don't know, three or four seasons deep. And we were both fans of the show. and I said, you know, we should do family guy samples and the songs. And he just lit up the car. He was like, that's amazing. And then we just started talking about which ones to use.

And the Tom Hanks one came up and the diarrhea one and so on. And again, as a fan or as someone who's watching suicide silence play and they're hearing a family guy sample, you know, Josh is thinking like, I'm not very good at drums or whatever, Josh. But it's like people were latching on to different things. know, oh, this band is going nuts. It's our schick. And then, oh, that sample, it's like a memorable piece of ear candy to be like, oh, I remember that band with the Kool-Aid sample. That's another one. And if you, not to abuse this power, but there's a show we played in, I think Virginia, no.

Oh, I don't remember. What's south of Virginia? North Carolina? Somewhere on the East Coast. Well, we played a show at a place somewhere over there, on the southeast. And the first track we played was Disorted Thought of Addiction, which has the Kool-Aid Man clip in it. And was it Virginia?

Is that the one? South of Virginia. I don't know. Virginia, I played North Carolina. You said that, right? Yeah, I just can't recall which venue we were at. but um also fucking who knows basement

whatever at this point you've played a million places so um but no i think it was a like a legit venue um yeah uh but the point is is that the uh um the kids in the crowd they um they all finished the Kool-Aid clip yeah so it's funny how you know a small thing just a little

it was nothing more than something to make us laugh and clearly it did so i think that was something that Mitch and I shared was our sense of humor and that came from you know hanging out living together and and being associated um and established well outside of the uh the project um but I did always wonder going back to my question if that bothered you never I don't know it I was never I never loved it oh it was this I couldn't then you can't deny like the reaction yeah you know you and Mitch were still stoked on it I was just confused and just it just never got taken out I guess that's probably why I perceived you to be frustrated by it,

but confusion is probably a good word. Yeah. Yeah, so they're going to make you laughing. You're really confused. Like, what the fuck was that? Virginia Beach. That is the show. It was like 2005 or 2006, Virginia Beach.

That's where it was. Oh, Pemamette Beach Club. That's the name of it? Yeah. Wow, that sounds really highbrow. Yeah. Impeccable, but that's, I mean, highbrow venues. That's the kind of stuff, you know, that we're made of.

impeccable memory you got. Appreciate that. Sometimes it's there. Other times it's like it's, oh, wow. Well, hence the artifacts. Yeah. Hence the artifacts, especially given, you know, how far along you are in this project, it's probably got to be a challenge to sort through, you know, memories.

Family Guy. Did you, after I left, did you continue doing the samples? If so for how long? And you may not even recall. I don't recall. I think it was around the same time we started to write. No, I think we stopped doing it because we started to write the cleansing.

It was like it was right after. And then office now we're dealing like legal issues. Yeah, I recall management even when I was still in the band being like, you know, Jerry wasn't like stoked about it. It was just kind of like, well, that's cute. So kind of like, it sounds like you and him had a similar reaction to it. So there were no samples on the cleansing? No.

No? Okay. Just for, I mean, just legal. Oh, I haven't seen this. Oh, my God, crazy. What is this? This is the one. Look at those head windmills.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I had a rack. Yeah, you had that for a while. That's right. Oh, this was when an under. answered was an intro and we just had those two parts that's right what an accident what an accident that was and and correct diarrhea clip wow see you're getting uncomfortable right we we thought that was cool at some point well it was I don't want to I don't want to make it

seem like it was like an artistic epiphany it wasn't it was just a couple of chuckle heads thinking that this might be a fun tension between this darker, heavier music and just the you know, the absurdness of family guy. But musically, there's that element of like time. It keeps time during a break and everyone knows when to come in because of, you know. This is it, right? Here you stay. Holy shit.

So that worked, you know? I mean, there's a lot of people watch right now. Holy shit. I don't remember it being that insane. Yeah, well, you probably don't remember. We're dumb kids, man. Fucking crazy. And Josh, correct me if I'm wrong, but we, so we drive home.

Wasn't that kind of like the beginning of like you're, you leaving? Oh, yeah, for sure. The drive from the East Coast back west. Straight back, straight back. A lot of time to think about your life. So, yeah, my God. And recognize the tensions that were being built. So we did that tour.

This is in 06, right? Is there a date on that video? Because that was the tour. That was my last tour. It's got to be. Oh, that was three years ago. Oh, my God. I mean, it was three years ago.

I wish. I was 0506. Oh, 5.06. So, yeah. We go probably a. find out the exact day because we went out there to play New England. That's right. New England Metal Fest was the final stop of that two-week tour. Was it with Behemoth?

Excuse me. Behemoth. Do you move? No. No. No. This one, oh, I don't remember who had, Dragon Force was one of the headliners. Really?

Yeah. I don't remember the lineup at all. Well, because we didn't stay. So here's, here's, and this is a good, I think, focus. 2006. You know, was it? Oh, six. Oh, six.

There you have it. April through, 2006. Yeah, I remember driving through tornado alley, and everybody in the van is asleep, and I'm just looking for purple clouds waiting for the big one to drop. So, you know, we played on a Friday, and we had to drive back that night to get back Monday morning to California. So we drove from Massachusetts to California. Jesus.

And it was 72 hours straight. something happened in Texas, maybe a tire blue, but that was our only stop because Megan and I, my wife, then girlfriend, needed to get back to class on Monday. We were only given that much time off before we had to drop classes. But again, it's a good element to focus on because it really kind of sheds light on the tensions that were being built. you guys Mark, Chris, Mitch

you were probably like, I want to stay and watch the rest of Metal Fest, but no, I got to drive back because Josh and Megan have their obligations. So, you know, start with the fact that I was insisting on bringing my girlfriend on tour.

Boy, oh boy, what a bad idea for you guys, for her, for me. But being a controlling person, I still very much am, but I hope that I keep it in check a little bit better.

But at the time I was unaware, I think, of how controlling I was. I naively believed that I could balance these two things, that I can have a relationship with my soulmate and also be in a full-time touring death metal band with Mitch Lucker and Chris Garza. very, very silly. And so as things were beginning to be, you know, becoming more serious, there was that UK tour that was booked.

It was like a month long, right? It was happening. It was a done deal. Sick. That was sort of the, I think that was booked right after that tour, right? Of course. But just the idea, you know, my poor wife is just, I'm putting her through this terrible experience.

I'm putting you guys through this terrible experience. you know, that really marked the beginning of the end and then learning that there was this tour happening. And so all of these competing interests in my life were colliding, you know, music, touring, my financial situation. It was me, it was, you know, didn't live with my parents. There was no, you know, fallback plan.

So if I quit my job at Ancho's, that'd be, you know, that'd be it. Yeah, while you're saying this, Josh, just want to add that, yeah, you were very responsible, is what I'm hearing, that you had been providing for yourself since you were in your early teens. None of us were doing that. I mean, so I hear what you're saying. I just wanted to add that additional, like, you know, you were, you were an adult thinking like an adult before I was. I'll say that. That may have been part of my hubris, you know, in terms of, well, I've had a job and I know better than these guys. You know, I have responsibility. I book the shows. I don't know. That may be an accurate account of what happened. But, you know, it just, it needed to happen at some point.

I think I was just putting it off where I didn't want to accept the realities that, dude, you've got to make a choice, man. You're either going to go on the road and you're going to do this full time. or you got to break it off. And I didn't. I just kept kidding myself until the very end. And so we had the show booked. We were already looking to find a fill-in drummer to go to UK to play the drums.

Were we? Yeah. Oh, fuck. Yeah, right? So all these, you know, hints that were coming, that were becoming far less subtle with every passing day. And then the last show I played, I didn't know it at the time, but California Metal Fest.

I think the first and maybe the only California Metal Fest, I don't know if there were more, but that turned out to be my last show. We had a meeting, came together, and you guys basically said, look, dude, like, you got to make a decision. And I don't want to speak for you, but I think that you knew, Jerry knew, Mitch knew what I was going to choose. Yes. But I just was so stubborn. I just would not. I couldn't let it go. I couldn't be the adult and the adult who I thought I was.

I couldn't just stop and say, you're right. You guys, you're right. I need to work. I need to have an income. You know, my lady is here. She is everything to me. I thought I could merge the two. It was painful.

It was a painful breakup and so painful that I didn't speak to you or Mitch or anybody for six years. And unfortunately, the reason we did come back together was Mitch's passing. still regret that very much I had reached out to him because a few months before he passed he was injured go figure right oh yeah you're right

fell on stage or something I don't know what happened but I'd seen like something on lamb goat and I was like oh dear I better reach out to him it's been long enough and so I messaged him I think it was on Facebook he never messaged back and then a few months later saw the well I didn't see anything Pat called me our buddy Pat

old friend Pat Ramirez called me at work and told me the news and then I saw you that night outside of John's tattoo shop and we embraced we cried hard cried ugly and really weird because you know never thought that that would be the moment we'd reconnect at a vigil or is that that I pronounce that right a vigil yeah right at a vigil um it just it goes to show you know Don't wait. Don't hesitate. Looking back, all of those things are so incredibly petty. Water under the bridge. You know, and don't take for granted the opportunity to apologize.

Recognize your faults. Recognize where you could have been a better person. And, you know, don't ever get to a position where, you know, you regret making that phone call or driving out to see somebody and just saying, hope you're okay. You don't have to be best friends. We wouldn't have been. But just to have the opportunity. opportunity to check in and say, you know, I'm glad that you're doing well.

Yeah. Yeah, that was a rough time because it's kind of funny and interesting to hear Rick talk about your like departure because for me it was personal. But I don't think it was personal because like it's like you're just like you're being abandoned. Even though if the decision is right, you're like, why is Rick leaving? You felt like he abandoned? Yeah. Wow. So that was like a weird, even though you eventually came back and did Mitch's Memorial,

which at that point might have been seven years. It was a long time. Hadn't spoken to any of you guys. Yeah, we haven't spoken in six, maybe eight years. It was nuts. I had never thought that. I never, ever once looked back. You know, I wasn't playing heavy music.

I was going to school. I was in Northern California. I think Josh, you called me, somehow got my number because my number had changed several times. And, yeah, I thought that was pretty mind-blowing because Mitch had passed. And kind of at the drop of a hat,

the call is happening, and then I think it was just two weeks later that, you know, I don't really recall how much time had passed between that call and then the actual memorial service. But that was, yeah, that was a... It's like it's weird when, you know, you're... No, even then. Even then when we got together, obviously, you know, things were chaotic because

Mitch is no longer alive. But in my mind, that time was also chaotic because, you know, we hadn't talked in a long time and it's not like we all of a sudden just were like you know best friend yeah it wasn't like it was like i got to learn the music again uh Mitch had passed everyone's kind of got you know um lots of things that they're contemplating yeah that was that was when we uh yeah all all reunited for that so and uh yeah at that point you know because i mean i when you're a kid playing music it's just like you are, you become close and good, good friends. And, you know, at that point, it's personal because to me,

as all of me, we're becoming one of my best friends, we're going to travel to world together and all this. So when you leave, it's like, even though for you, it's very natural, I was like, kind on the back of my head, you know, it's like, well, shit sucks. Well, yeah, I never, yeah, it's, yeah, again, in my mind, I was, you're, you were like, was that, was that a rough time, you know, were you, was there animosity? I'm like, no, it was, I was just leaving. And in Chris's mind, you're sharing.

Yeah, so, yeah, never knew that. And Josh was, in worse, because, I mean, Josh definitely, like, you were one of my best friends at that point, you know. It's like, it was you, Mitch, David Ingram, she had to him like, he's like, I have like, you know, you only have a few. You know, it's like, once you're leaving, it's like, what? Yeah, that's a Yeah, no, we didn't talk You know, I lost one of my best friends You know

And then, you know, we don't talk for six fucking years We go from like We're buddies and then you don't talk Or even see someone for years Co-workers, family friends The homies, yeah You know It's part terrible for, I mean, both sides

You know Well, sure, again, it's, as I mentioned earlier it's hard. Most bands, at least in our experience, in our little musical world, most bands start as friends. And so the tension that's created between friendships,

mingling with musicianship, mingling with writing, and then the schedule and competing time, competing interest. A new member joining, like, a manager, you know, that there's new dynamic. that gets introduced.

Yeah. And again, if you, Jerry was in the right in terms of, I think he saw the potential. And he was that, that hand, moving things forward and knowing that if you guys wanted to be this,

you needed to get someone who was all in, right? Was that? Oh, yes, exactly right. Yeah, yeah. He was the enforcer for sure. And it's, I think, if anything,

It's advice from people to learn from that sometimes there are very few things that are truly special that you don't sacrifice for. There's always an element of sacrifice no matter what. And it's about establishing, sometimes it's a harder journey than not, but it's establishing your values, your personal values, and looking back in hindsight and appreciating your decision. good or bad, but appreciating them for how they have molded you. You know, we're just pieces of wood gliding through the lathe of life. And little by little, those microscopic nicks shape us. Mark had even, I saw Mark a chain reaction, I think, a few months after the breakup. And he was so nice and he was trying to reach out to me and I shut him down.

I was totally mean to him. We've, of course, since. Sorry, how long ago was that? Well, that's like 2006. So shortly after the breakup. Got it, got it. It wasn't clear to me. So since then, of course, you know, things have been patched up.

But again, it really revealed to me that, you know, a lot of that was me being the A-hole. But again, late teenagers, early 20s. Come on, man. It's tough. It's tough. You know, quick, yeah, quick little thing. I was so surprised, you know, fast forward another six years. And I see you in Denver.

Yeah, we just reconnected like last month. I hadn't really, you know, hadn't really spoken to you. And a lot of time had passed. Mitch had passed and then even more time had gone by. So a lot of time for me to process and start to understand the impact that suicide silence is having on the world. It was like, oh, you know, I share a piece of that. I have a, I played a part in that. And there I am. I'm at the, I'm at the show in Denver, born of Osiris just gets done. And I'm fliring outside, passing out flyers. I'm like, am I going to go inside and see Chris play? And that's how I thought about it.

I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go inside. I go right in front of Chris and Chris is on stage, killing it and song ends and I immediately go Garza. And for Chris, for you to look down and from the stage and be like, who said that, you know, and then yeah, I just thought that was, That was a sign of, you know, how we have all learned, you know, to elaborate on what Josh was saying about, like, you know, let this be a lesson, you know, life is short, you know, don't hold these grudges. And then for Chris to be like, that's a familiar voice, oh, that's Rick. And then let's hang out. Mind you, suicide silence is in like their third song and Chris is talking.

to me from the stage, like, let's hang out after this, are you down? And I was just like, this is pretty cool. You know, humbling feeling, also very uplifting feeling. Like, Garz is on stage doing his thing. He's doing, he's providing a service for all of these people here, and he's taking this moment to just be like, dude, yeah, let's connect because a lot of time has passed. And I just was very appreciative of you. you know, yeah, very appreciative of that moment. And then to tie in, you know, Mark and Eddie and Dan, you know, me seeing them, you know, I never played with them.

I was, they weren't in the band when I was playing for them to be like, oh, like, what's up, dude? And just really welcome me and embrace me at this point in your guys' career. I just was like kind of taken, taking them back and surprised. And, yeah, I just, I guess I'm pointing out that, yeah, you guys, you guys have kept it humble. And, yeah, that's, that's, that's really cool.

We've all, we've all learned and grown up, I guess. We've all learned and grown up. And, I mean, I mean, I wouldn't, you know, it'll be, I mean, I wouldn't be up there if it wasn't, for you, you know, you Rick or you Josh, you know, you helped me find myself when I was a kid. With songwriting, which I eventually, tools I learned, well, I took with me, you know, forever. So, I mean, as I see you, I'm like, oh, please shut your brick, you know, I mean, it's why, and it's why we're up there. You know, you guys, you guys played a massive part.

Yeah, it was, that was, it's just been, this is very cool, very special, um, not to be like, on the podcast, but to be homies, to be friends. So, yeah. Yeah. It was cool. After I go home from that run,

I talked to my girlfriend and say that I ran into you. It was just nice. It's funny when I look back at it now, at this moment right now, it's like, I'm like, wait, did, was the grudge just me? And then Rick was cool when he left. But I was telling him,

telling him my girlfriend sees me like, it was so cool just just hang out with them and talk to them and just kind of cool cool the air you know not even not even just to talk like you know

but like you know eye contact and and I you know I'm like these dudes just got done ripping a fat show and they're playing you know with

you know with dying fetus who I was trying to emulate and you know I'm like the down to earth and humble right now. And it humbled me. And it was pretty grounding looking, you know, having conversation with you.

And then, like I said, everyone else being like, what's up, Rick? And it's like, you guys don't really know me that well. But you guys are like, oh, yeah, what's up, Rick? That was, that was awesome. Yeah, that was awesome. Humility, um, is important. And I would like to point out, your name is on a mug. not to take you down.

No, no, no, no. I think I've gone on the record of my love and appreciation for Chris, but you've gotten more curious over time. Yeah. Genuinely curious. At least I perceive it to be genuine. You and Rick ran into each other at a, what do you call suicide silence now? There's a shorter...

Suey. Suey. Suey. Suey. There you have it. Okay. Very good. Suey.

You would just finish playing with Suey. Okay. And that doesn't sound right. That sounds like your dog or your niece. Like, is Suey here? Hi, Suey, it's Uncle Chris. How are you? My fucking...

Sui. Chop suey. Yeah, no. No, I'm on a mission now. I'm going to eradicate that from the metal vernacular. Suey? Okay. But you ran into Rick at a show in his...

In the land of Colorado. you and I have an annual meeting in the Sprout's parking lot. Yeah. We run into each other there quite often. You never go in for very much. I noticed that. Like Megan and I are there. We're getting the essentials for the week.

You know, for the week, exactly. It's a weekly trip. It's a big deal. You know, we've got to make sure the cats are fed before we go. But you're just in there for some coffee, maybe some kombucha or something. You're always very light-handed, nimble. appreciate that. But we were in the parking lot and it was probably a good hour and you kept peppering me with questions. I don't remember the subject. Maybe it was relationships. I don't

know, but you can you can see in your eyes just how genuinely curious you really appear to be now. And has that always been there and I just never noticed? Or do you recall a moment when you're, you know, your interest in the world and in conversation started to grow? it's it's a lot but uh yeah i mean you guys know me since i was you know a kid you know very at your high school graduation we were we remember yeah yeah you're there you know it's just naturally quiet you know but but still around um but yeah things things slowly started to uh change with obviously with Mitch was the face of the band and then once he was he was out i was already so when you're quiet you're naturally

hopefully you're observing more and you're just listening more to kind of build this muscle without even knowing that's like listening to people and then once Mitch happens and then we get kind of through that time it kind of hit me like we need I don't know we need help like I'm this this all this like I can't rely on Mitch in the face of the band anymore that's gone and then once idea for this happened just this dove in and it's learned and it's learning and it's from all these new bands and asking questions and unfortunately it's uh it's from it is it is mitch because once he passes no one knew shit about the band like no one knew anything because no one asked me questions about you know the band no one cared so uh i know the feeling of trying to recover

from that news not being out no one knowing anything about you or or or or the band so once this happened i just ask questions I wish someone asked me. You know? And it seems like that's, you know, spilled over just from, not just with other musicians, other artists, but again, we were just a couple people talking in a parking lot. So it seems like you do that with everybody you encounter now.

Yeah. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah. Okay. I call that being grounded, man. That's, uh... Appreciate that. You know, when you work, when you're working every day and you're talking with

people all the time. And when you come across someone who's grounded, it's almost very surprising and shocking, like, oh, this person's listening. Well, the G in Garza on his mug. Appreciate that. It stands for grounded. So. And A is for assful. And A. Oh, man. R, the backwards are. We know where that comes from. Yeah. You know, it's, I prefer. In Cutsicini games. It's a keeny dick. I just, I break it in half. It's more like, Gar, duh.

The pirate in all of us. Chris, do you remember when the brakes went out on the van when we were on our way to Bakersfield? The brakes went out. We were just like going through, we had just bought the van from Izot, the owner of Showcase. We just bought the van. Sure. He's like, Josh, it's a great van. It's in great shape.

The addicts used this van. I said, oh, the addicts. Well, if the addicts used the van. van. Is Ron drive? Yeah, Ron drives the vans. Oh, I might trust Ron. It must be in great shape. Okay, you got a deal. I don't know what we pay. We paid cash. Yeah. And we're driving. It was a three-day, like, little short mini tour. And we're in Pomona on our way to Jerry's Pizza and Bakersfield. And there was traffic on the 71. And what you do when there's traffic is you hit the brakes. Yeah. The problem this time was when I depressed the break, nothing happened.

Of course. And so I looked at Megan and I looked in my rearview mirror. I saw you. I saw Mitch, my friends, my family. And I thought, well, this is it. I better, you know, say my piece because we're going 40, 50 miles an hour. And we would have been in bad shape. So I just said gently, the brakes are out.

And Megan said, what? Luckily, the e-break worked. We got off to the side of the road. With the trailer on the back, right? With the trailer on the back. Yes, yes. E-break and a trailer on the back. Yeah.

I don't think Mitch heard me say the breaks were not working because as I started to slow down and veer off the side of the road, he was just like, why are we stopping? What are you doing? Got to get going, man. Yeah, not the funnest moment for us, but proud to say we made it to Jerry's pizza and my sloppy drumming was able to do what it was supposed to do that evening. but yeah but those moments um you know uh for better or worse i think uh provided the environment or the circumstances for brotherly bonding wouldn't you say yeah yeah i i forgot they even happen yeah that i probably just brought up a memory that you've been holding um oh shit yeah i i can refer to you to a good therapist um if you need that anyone yeah we all do we all do truthfully

talking about venues. I know earlier we're talking about kitchens. I'm not lying. I mean, we played in a kitchen in San Francisco. Yeah, I remember that. It was a kitchen, but also a black metal art gallery. Oh, shit.

That's right. All the pictures of like European metal people in the woods. I remember like, oh, this is a kitchen and an art gallery. excuse me and we did play in the kitchen we played in the kitchen in Las Vegas once I don't know if you remember that yes yeah yeah

pretty sick I do hope we were courteous music and food go together you know they do they do anchos and metal yeah I don't know if we've ever played at a restaurant no I don't think we ever played it we played it plenty American legions

VFW halls City halls from coast to coast city halls basements, et cetera. So, but, you know, I hope Chris, for a number of reasons that Suey continues. Well, not least of which, this is the only thing that makes me cool. Like, on the occasion that I get to mention to somebody, my history, that's the only thing because when you're a square like me and you have a square job,

you know, you have to embrace it. And you see a student with a suicide silent shirt on. Absolutely. And you just say, hey, young fella, you got a second? And they look at me and they're like, no chance. I'm not going near you. You smell like square. You look like square.

But I'm like, don't go. I was the bad drummer who bungled his, I forget it. But that's only going to be okay if you continue, you know, and you reach that echelon of, you know, cannibal corpse and Metallica and so on.

So for my cool points, please, Dan, Mark, Eddie, what is your drummer's name? Ernie. Ernie. Chris, for the love of God, like, you're the only thing that keeps me kind of cool.

Please don't stop. He's saying, keep going. Keep going. Keep writing. Keep writing, keep slamming. Keep asking questions. Joking aside. Yeah, keep asking questions.

Keep being curious. but kidding aside, you know, you've accomplished a great deal, Chris. You've accomplished tremendous things. And I hope that at this point, you de-emphasize proving anything to yourself or proving anything to anyone for that matter. And you emphasize more just those qualities that make you unique. And the band, you, they're synonymous, right? the origin, the essence of what it is to be suicide silence. And that's a reality whether you make it so or not. It simply is. It's a constant now. And so I hope that, you know, maybe we should

leave a note, a love note to us, our 40-year-old selves and say, just you're still stupid, okay? Because we're just in our 30s now, we're like, oh, what dummies we were in our 20s and teens. No, in our 40s, we're going to look back at this moment and say, you idiot. You thought you were smart. You thought you were smart just every day. And this goes for everybody, Rick, Chris, just continuing to appreciate yourselves for those beautiful things that make you who you are. Thank you for that. Yeah, it's hard to see those things.

We were just so in something, you know. It's tough. It's tough being ourselves with outside noise. you know it's tough to pause you know what would you consider outside noise at this point in your life and maybe you could no go ahead chris tell us what outside noise is i think uh if i could put one word to it's bullshit i'll make an analogy for sports fans out there i i watch interviews from players from time to time and they're always talking about the outside noise and that's people talking about you sharing opinions and telling you what you did right which mostly what you did wrong and what

looks dumb and if and then when that all that noise when there's a lot of noise out there you you you know it comes across your your desk or you know comes across and um yeah i constantly hear uh be like we have to concentrate what's happening in our building or what's happening with us. And if you continue to just do that and concentrate on yourselves, that's, yeah, that's the outside noise. The outside noise should be a reminder to focus on you. Yeah, that's beautiful, Rick. Thank you. That's really nice. a coda to that the self-titled album

the one that gets all the controversy I hope well let me just shut up for a second what are your thoughts on that now reflecting you know unfortunately we just had to do it we had some but what's unfortunate about it

the outside noise that came with it because unfortunately the outside noise became empty bank accounts because they stopped buying merch and stopped coming out to the shows when he literally had to re what's that machine when someone has heart failure

and they had to fucking a defibrillator yes so basically it had to do that to the band and literally brought the band back from the dead and with that comes new appreciation

when you're welcomed back of course but I mean you must be great grateful for that experience. 100%. It seems to me that that was a major factor in kind of exposing yourself to your own spiritual realities, wouldn't you say?

Of course, yeah. In the end, when all you have is you, you can't run away from you anymore. Oh, that hurts. Jesus. Yeah, you can't run away from you. You can't. Yeah, you got to do whatever, whatever you got to face. You got to face it.

You're not you're not you're definitely not cool in what we're talking about being cool It's like you're not calling more when when you're broke, you know and this is like you're if I like her or not This is like the identity you know being this but I'm super grateful and proud of but when there's nothing around that you're like oh shit You got then you got to rebuild and rebuild things stronger but but how to do it so fortunately I guess I guess I guess now I should start So with your help Josh I said start talking differently, different words. But fortunately, yeah, we had to do it.

It was fun. It was a great experience. And I wouldn't change it. That's good, man. And never question your own words. I think that it is important, though, because I see just as an outsider looking, and I'm a part of the noise too, right? Your evolution as a person, as an artist, as now a, you know,

traversing the realm of a different medium. A radio personality. That's right. Oh my goodness. That's right, with his name on a mug. It's just, I think that that experience was very important. And I think you should really appreciate it, irrespective of what some guy, you know. On not pop says.

Well, some guy came up with T. He? I still don't hear T. He at all. I don't know where that came from. I've listened to that song, a couple of. couple times. It's a good album, by the way. It's a very good album. Tee, it doesn't, no, that's not a thing. Again, the noise and those same dynamics that, you know, were competing for my attention and competing for my life were certainly brought to the surface in the wake of that album because you have the economic reality, the income reality, messing with your art, you know.

which in most cases, art is simply an extension of your own personality. So for your output as an artist to now be in conflict with, you know, your livelihood, your financial livelihood, that's got to be tough. But again, I think that grind and that tension has clearly resulted in a positive outcome, given what you now do and what you now experience. And I'm sure others see it too. They just may not have taken the time to reflect on that. Thank you.

Thankfully, holy shit. It could have went wrong a lot of times, you know. Well, oftentimes when it goes wrong, it ends up being right. That was sick. We just don't like the nasty stuff because, you know, nobody likes pain. but pain is a part of the process. If you guys don't mind, Chris, I remember, I just, you know, I feel like for the people who are normal, who are, who are fans of this, of your show, like, they're probably thinking, what,

what is this guy in a blue shirt and, and Josh doing on this show? I appreciate you putting us on because, you know, I wanted to, just briefly, just briefly share that, you know, I'm, you know, I wanted some help as a, to establish credit as a songwriter. And, you know, I appreciate you putting me on and giving me a chance to just talk about some of the things I've done. But I wanted to briefly share that, that, Torn Within has a record out. The band almost made me quit. Torruthan has a record out and I'm bringing it up because we're playing our first

show just like a showcase theater type of venue in Denver at Lost Lake at the end of the month and yeah I just wanted to put that out there I'm grinding super hard to to try and be you know to try and get people to notice and you know for a long time I

anytime I could bring up suicide silence you know people look at me and go oh you were oh okay I'm just like no I really was you think it's hard for you like oh yeah that was yeah we're like that doesn't look like you you're like I'm not wearing my mask

here it is yeah so I just thank you thank you just wanted to quickly quickly shot give a shout out to Torn Within playing it playing at the end of the month first show 20 years yeah

20 years yeah That's crazy, dude. Holy shit. You know, I've been playing music by myself as just like doing other kinds of music. And so, but to come back full circle, like I said, I never really looked. Already got vinyl. I never really looked back. Oh, I was fucking sick, man.

Right on. Yeah. And it's gnarly to be doing this again. And a shout out to Justin and Jose Garcia. And who's going to play bass? And Logan, Logan Raynard. Yeah, so just wanted to quickly say that before the show ended. It's going to be sick, Rick.

You said it's going to be recorded. So I'm eagerly awaiting that show because I can't wait to see you guys play live. You're great performers. The two of you are two of my oldest friends. And to continue appreciating the art that you are producing is it's quite, gratifying. It's badass. But hopefully,

you know, we write something that... That's fucking crazy. Hopefully, hopefully we write something that Chris is like, I quit. And that's the goal.

Yeah, always the goal. And that inspires Chris to put something together that the people are like, yeah, this is, this is sick.

So, because I, You know, going back to when we were separate bands and we were playing shows together, that was a driving force for us, you know. It was. Hearing another band from just the town over, and you're like, so, you know, that's, again, I really appreciate the platform talking about suicide silence. But yeah, you know, I hope we, yeah, hope we can do something with music together. I don't know to what capacity,

but, and if it's just writing our, writing music and then feeding off each other, yeah, I mean, I look forward to, to what's next, so. Well, Rick, you're a great songwriter. I mean, your catalog speeds for itself. And if, and if you're listening and watching Curious,

that, the music that we're actually talking about earlier is actually on Spotify, which I think is genius. I'm glad that that is up there. Like you have like the whole archive of sins. So it's the, so you have the first,

the first three songs are the first demo from 2003 and the other five songs which is the one that made me want to quit is, is track, track four to nine.

I think it's, I want to say, well, Hero No More is like the one that makes you just want to fucking quit. And you guys, so you need to go on Spotify, look up to,

torn within and check out those songs that was because that's what yeah oh oh 304 that was like I was I was going to quit it was it was it was incredible and that was like a really without us knowing really what what's the music that's come after that has been pretty insane you know I can't imagine the death course scene or anything heavy in general being around you know torn thin and suezance wasn't budding heads you know it's crazy well all that to say look forward to what you do

what you do with songwriting and your guitar and thanks man yeah looking I mean yeah what's next so yeah it's crazy to have even to think about next

I mean this conversation is is crazy it's the timing factor it was like wow you were in town Josh made made it work on timing we're both in apart in our lives for we could look back and be humble and listen and have a wider perspective.

We haven't hung out in 10 years. It's crazy. Well, don't discount our yearly meeting at Sprouts in the parking lot. Those are valuable to me. Of course. And I wouldn't fetishize it. No selfies. It just simply happens.

Don't look back too hard, though, because I think we may become obsessive with, you know, the wise or, you know, resentment is a cocktail of several different, often painful emotions. So appreciation, I think, is important. But once your reflection reaches the level of appreciation and acceptance, that it's time to move back on and getting the present. I think on the phone the other day, we talked about that. You had said that you feel like you're able to be a little bit more present these.

days and I'd like to yeah I'd like to talk about that for a second but would you agree is that your your own self-assessment is that you are feeling more focused and here yes have to you know I learned the hard way you know I learned what the term growing pains was you know for yourself or like in relationships both mostly for myself just talk selfishly for a moment I was a you know

you have an idea okay I'll do a podcast But I realized in order to listen to other people The best you can you need to deal with your own shit And so I had to deal with your own shit And then once in the process of figuring that stuff out Privately Things like this you know got better like having a more of a capacity To like to listen to another human talk

And also a room in your own brain It's not cluttered with bullshit You know you just clean your room You know it's okay then you have space to like you know have someone else's perspective like to enter your brain stay there you know then you can have a nice conversation for hour hour 30 so in order to get someone else's story out there which some uh i had to get my own straight and then naturally you know naturally you get more grounded and more and more present you know it's crazy and uh i wish yours something better to say it's just

facing demons and some little little or big insecurities that you got to fix you know And I'm lucky, you know, I have my girlfriend C, so you'll be almost 80 for four years. She kind of helped me, like, fine-tune things, you know. You know, when a female says, like, they'll, like, say, like, something little. You know, you know, you do this. You're like, no, I don't.

But then you're like, you do. And you need fucking picture. And it's on a little, little comment here and there, not, not, like, downgrading, just like, she'll say some. I'm like, oh, shit, I got, okay. But when you clean that, when you clean that area in your room, slash your brain, you know, you get a bigger capacity to just be less of a piece of shit. In your own story, as you've allowed the space in your brain to reflect and appreciate,

has the word thrush come up at all on this podcast? Has it? This may be a moment. Am I? Yeah, this might be the first. Because I never heard thrush I don't know if you guys did a demo I just know that

You did Is it out there in the world? Can it be found? Is it out there? I'm not sure Because this was you And who else was in Thrush? Homies Was Jeff in Thrush?

Jeff, yeah Jeff Car player Brandon was the singer Jeff, beautiful man by the way Yeah Love Jeff A friend Nick That lied about his age

He was like Fucking no no What 13 or something. Wow. His dad was managing him. Lied about his age saying he was younger or older than what he really was. Okay.

He was older because we were, yeah, we were 17 or something. I forgot my age, but yeah, they added a couple years to his real age. But he was a sick drummer. Deep cuts prior to dying and dreams. And I saw you had dying and dreams up on the screen earlier. You can see me in the pit, and Pat, our buddy I mentioned earlier in there. But, you know, I think Mitch has the distinction that his work prior to suicide silence is out there.

But I was very curious to know if Thrush is out there. And then prior to Dying Dreams, you had breakaway, which was Mitch's, his brother Cliff's high school band that he joined. Wow. Just to go back to when Josh was describing himself as a square, it's like, if you saw Josh in the pit back in the day, you were not thinking, oh, who's the square in the pit? Oh, they were. Oh, no, you wouldn't go in. You were backing up. Yeah.

You're not. You're not going to go in. I was just thinking of like, oh, yeah, when Josh was in the pit, he was a big square. It's like, no, he was not a square. You were like this, you know, center from the basketball team dressed in all black. Nicole Yokicch, before Nicole Yokic. Who just got done wearing this brutal mask and slamming the drums is now standing in the pit a foot taller than you. Oh, my goodness.

I had somebody tell me once I was too big to Mosh. Can you believe that? That still hurts. Those comments sometimes will fucking stay with you. And you gotta undo them. Like the not pop comment. That stuck with me for sure. So yeah. That must have been

exhausting. I'm sure we're running out of time here. We're actually got a there's a community cat. I need to go fill her water and kibble bull. So we're at middle school. There's Paul. There was Paul Keene. Oh, is this, is this

Dying Dreams. This is showcase. Oh, there I am. There I am in the hatch. There you are. Oh my goodness. Yeah, so we're going to very quickly here. With a bandana on.

Yeah, there's Cliff, Mitch's brother, Big Mike. Oh, my goodness. Josh. Josh Stefano, normal Josh. But yeah, Rick's comment that I'm not a square. The video, Brandon Treyhan, fabulous drummer. Look at that young boy. She played drums in a pen and June for a few records so people know. He played drums in every IE band for a couple records.

But to contradict Rick's point. That is a square man with very, very narrow shoulders, very loppy. Yeah. Oh, 2, October 02. There you go. So that was prior to us meeting. Showcase looks pretty packed. Yeah, I wonder who else was playing.

I think it paid to have friends, didn't it? Prior to having fans, it was better to have friends to amplify, make it seem like we had more, you know. That's what you did. That's what you did, though. It's crazy. Well, they're all Mitch's friends. They were.

I didn't have any friends. I just hung out, me, Pat, Mitch, Gabe. So it's funny because suicide silence is really a Los Sierra High School band. Because it's your band, because you started it. But Tanner and Josh and Mike and eventually Mitch. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gary? Didn't Gary play bass for a little bit?

Yeah. Quick, yeah. All Los Sierra High School. I forgot. I forgot. I can forget in that. And then myself. So you were the across town, a Corona High School kid, but the rest of us were all eagles.

And that's why, that's why, if you go anywhere, it says, Sue DeSance, Riverside, California, because you're right, you know. But that's not fair because it's a Corona Band. But everyone that would ever join would be from Riverside. So yeah, weird this, yeah. Yeah. It was tough. Riverside County, maybe that, you know, king, uh, queen takes rook.

I don't know. So let me just fall fucking piss me off. We'll claim that. Like, God damn. Oh, he would be like, what's up, everybody? Where suicide sounds from Riverside, California? It's like, what from Corona?

You fucking like, it just stuck. Which is ironic because he lived off McKinley, which is like the border. That's the border of Corona. It's so is a confusing. Wait, that Corona is that Riverside. You don't, you don't know. That's why Home Gardens exists.

I mean. Because Home Gardens is the neutral zone. between Corona and Riverside. The Fender Factory is still in Corona, right? Yeah. Bam. You've been there, right? Showcase theater was in Toronto.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Never been there. Well, dudes, I really appreciate your time and this pure luck and us maturing that we would. I never thought this conversation would happen. It's funny because it was brought up by, you know, people that watch and listen to the podcast. And I'll see it in comments. you should get you know Rick and Josh

I was like all right if it works out maybe and it's like time kind of allowed it to happen yeah it's cool I'm so I'm so happy that that this happened you know I learned a lot about you guys and myself and then people

listening watching hopefully had fun listening yeah it's cool I don't know how you do it Chris you stay busy it's not my place to say this but I'm proud of you thank you Keep it up, buddy. Keep it up. And for those wondering why I wore the mask, now you know.

Baby face, ugly faces. I'm actually missing a tooth right now. I don't know if you can hear the stay plate in there. The buck happened. Well, no, no need to get into it. But just that's why I was dreading. S's and Cs are very hard right now. So being in a band called Suicide Silence,

a little bit tough, so grateful I didn't have to say that very often. Did you want to wear it one more time before I take it? You don't have to. I just saw you looking at it. I'm just touching it. Looking at it. How cheap it is.

Just the pure silliness of it. You know, shout out again. Dominic Montez, it is forever his mask. He can have it back whenever he wants. But otherwise, it's a Halloween prop. I mean, it got people talking, man. It's crazy. It's like that, the fucking samples.

It's crazy how things is stick, you know, insane. Well, what stuck is you, sir? You are a legend, Chris. God bless you for everything. Appreciate you guys, and I'm lucky to still have you guys as friends, especially in this industry. It's so common. In fact, it's more uncommon for people not to reconnect

and be friends and there's resentment. So I'm very lucky that you allowed me back in your lives, and I wouldn't know for it being my career. I wouldn't have one if it wasn't for you guys. So thank you for being part of my childhood and my life still. Love you. Love you, Chris. All right, everyone, that's it.

Thank you. Later.