Garza Podcast - 84 - MUGSHOT: 1st Interview Ever, Nasty Riffs, Ego & Being Sober

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Garza sits down with San Jose, California's MUGSHOT. https://www.linktr.ee/mugshotca MUGSHOT is: Ringo Waterman - Vocals Michael Demko - Guitar Connor Haines - Drums TIME STAMPS: 00:00 - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) & Seth Rogen Reboot 03:56 - Suicide Silence Guitar Play-throughs Embarrassment 06:24 - Taking Heavy Music to a New Level 08:35 - Member Intros 09:56 - Finding Band Members, Writing First Songs 13:04 - Learning Guitar by Jamming to My Chemical Romance Songs 15:45 - C Standard & Other Tunings 17:56 - First Interview Ever 19:25 - Formation of the Band (2015) 25:30 - Writing New Music with Live Shows in Mind 28:12 - Ringo Joining as Vocalist 31:56 - The First Show/Tour 35:34 - Moving While Playing Difficult Riffs 40:25 - Band Social Media & Growth 43:12 - On Tour with MyChildren MyBride  45:00 - Seeing a Band’s Live Energy 45:55 - Growth & Success So Far 47:37 - “Egodystonic” 50:00 - Dealing With Ego 53:08 - Being Sober, Legal States, Avoiding Trouble 01:01:14 - Finding Like-Minded People to Work With 01:02:43 - Writing Riffs While High (or Not) 01:08:21 - Simple vs Complex Riffs/Good Songwriting 01:13:48 - From the Bay Area to Worldwide Touring  01:17:04 - Milwaukee Metal Fest

The amount of scenes that get built in like what is a C market, right? And then you play to five kids. But you come back and they've told 20 people each. And you're like, well, there's 100 kids. And guess what? No one else plays here. So you are 100 kids' favorite band of all time. So many guests have been here.

And no one has said anything about that poster. So, I had to. Connor, thank you for noticing the greatness. Of course. Yeah, yeah. Literally to me, I think that's one of the best movies of all time. Yeah, it's incredible. Like, truly one of the, my favorite movies when I was a kid.

For context, it's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yes. I don't know what year, which one it came out. The poster says featuring music from MC Hammer, which is crazy. That is? MC Hammer, huh? Yeah, I've yet to see it. And then the actual, oh, MC Handel.

Oh, wow. I'm going to guess, okay, so this is the original movie. This, I want to, I'm going to get 80, 80, or, I'm, I'm gonna look. There's more than three. 80. I should know this. 87.

90. No. It has to be, it has to hit the 80s. 90? 90. No. On the nose.

Turning point in cinema. Honestly, yeah. So, is you reading the Wikipedia of TMNC? So we're just going to watch this movie. It's a watch party. If you go back and rewatch this movie,

It's a deep, like, the storyline with, like, a Splinter and Leo, like, the way they, like, communicate with each other. And the storyline is, it's a very, like, insightful story. Yeah. You know. I feel lame for being unfamiliar. We have to. We have to watch it. I've never seen it, yeah.

Oh, wow. We'll watch it tonight. This is a shame. The second time has come up because we're talking about the new one coming out and all that. So, it's cool. Wait, is there a new one coming out? Did it come out? No, they have, like, a, it's going to.

It's, like, animated in this style. of like spiderverse like it's like that new that more new age animation but they have one coming out later this year they're all like younger this is a ad for teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles mutant mayhem yeah you in mayhams? I haven't heard about what

oh this is fuck this is fuck Seth Rogan yeah who does he voice he I think he did he like put it together but he voices I think B-Bop or Rock Steady?

Wow. I have not seen this. Dude. I just want to see these faces. Okay, so this is animated. Yeah. Oh, this is definitely moving to watch on drugs. I'm not to say.

Their faces, if you're just listening, you should definitely check out, like, just their faces. There's something. The trailer for TMN, TME. Wow. It's crazy how far these movies go, like movies like this. name of Batman's and stuff, but it's just like this never-ending and it just keeps going.

Yeah, yeah. It's fucking nuts. I mean, there's so much you can do with them. Yeah. So many offshoots of storylines that will apply. Totally. Well, and they keep putting out content.

And money is cool. Like, comic book writers and stuff like that between Marvel and DC and all the big ones. Like, there's so much that they're still doing. Yeah. And so you can do, you know, like the bad. Batman's Post-Malo. What a lineup.

John Sina Ice Cube of Post Malone. What a lineup. That's really wild. Jackson Chan, baby. Mr. Chan. Giancarlo Esposito. They got an A-list. They got an A-list.

I just want to say what an honor it is to be here, because I watched Suicide Silence Guitar, like, instructional videos. Oh, that are terrible. Dude, during my formative years, I was just, like, when you get into, like, heavy guitar, and you're just like, how do you make things? sounds so nasty like so evil and I remember like watching a plaything was like yeah this riff is 210

and I was like that's awesome that is so sick I am too embarrassed to to go back and watch those dude that was that was formative for me like really oh absolutely I'm not even kidding I've also I'd never played a seven string in my life I didn't know like I got into like heavy music pretty late like pretty late considering other people

like I was like 17 18 or something like when I finally actually like dove into like stuff with breakdowns yeah and so I had a really good I had a friend that was like, yo, literally, yo, literally this. I literally watched this in the unanswered one.

What the fuck? I have never watched. I can't. This podcast has made a turn for it the worst. This is so formative. This is not one I want to talk about. It's my fucking show. It's awesome because this is actually the video.

Like some... Like the drums. Done. D-da-da-dun. Oh. I guess that's the easiest way to explain it. Fuck yeah, Mark. I'm pretty sure it's like, no pity for a coward video and like y'all talking about how

like everything you hit is like purposely, you make the root note the first fret so that when the last breakdown hits and it's an open note, it's like way heavier. And I like not like stuck with me forever. Like I approached like writing like that was like, no, no, we're gonna trick them and make them think that this is it. And then dude out of nowhere, like it's dumb heavy. He knows that like for sure. Like I took that with me forever.

It is true. It's like we weren't trying to you like a key change, but it is technically a key change. Yeah. That was Mark's idea. Like, yeah, you play it, play on one for, like, a while, and then you just drop it in zero. It was just brutality. Yeah. It was just vibed with it.

Yeah, all that was super four. I had a friend I was going to say, I was, like, super into deathcore, and I had, was not familiar with anything. Yeah. It was, like, suicide else was one of his favorite bands. He had, like, 30 of your shirts, like, straight up. Like, every single color tank, and then, like, every, like, prince that had possibly been made. So he, like, showed me, and I, like, changed how I, like, looked at, like, music.

Like, just knowing that, like, like, how brutal. you could be, but you didn't have to, I don't know. You guys obviously had like shreddy stuff and like solos and stuff. But all my favorite stuff was when it was just da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Like I'd never listen to music like that. Like maybe deep dive for sure. And then I was like, what's slam? I mean, well, speaking of heavy, I mean, we got mugshot in the house.

You've taken heavy to a whole other level. And that, you know, bands like you are inspiring me now. You know, I appreciate that. It's crazy. Like we, I think our whole goal is to write something as heavy as possible, but without, I think for a long time heavy in the mainstream of metal was slow. Make it slow and it's like a 100 BPM breakdown. And we're like, how fast can we possibly play stuff and have it be so aggressive that it's heavy? So it's definitely cool to hear you say that.

It's real life. I was playing I played it from like front to back like the first record to like the EP and then you literally just put out a single like four days ago I was like it was a nice

great timing. Yeah. I'm gonna talk to them literally today. Yeah. So it's great. It's really cool how how far that you know

you're taking like the sound and making it, you know, your own. Yeah. It's cool. All of us collectively love core. That's what I like to say. Like just anything that ends in core, we're probably a fan.

Heavy core. Yes. Yeah. In general, death core, metal core, hardcore, like all of it, the whole spectrum. It's just like, influence and inspired by all of that. So just try to take every, like, element that we enjoy and, like, put it all in the music. It's like, I feel like that's the M.O. But for the most part.

Yeah, definitely. Is there something called heavy core, like a genre? There's got to be heavy core. There's got to be, uh. Ignorant core? Ignorant core. There is. Once this podcast drop.

Yeah. It's coming. We just coined it. Heavy core. There's definitely music that is heavy core. Heavy core bands. It's like there's some... Core genres.

Heavy core genres. Crunk core? I don't think I've heard crunk core. Frontcore. Let's deep dive on. I think that's the biggest mugshot inspiration. Okay. Before we go into crunk core, let's do a quick intro so people can put

voices to the names. Yeah. My name's Connor. I played drums. and produce all of our music. I'm Ringo. I sing in the band, and I do all of our artwork and stuff.

Oh, my name's Michael. I play guitar and write songs in Mugshot. And my name's Brandon. I'm playing bass. I'm filling in. But, permanent villain. All that, all that old permanent feeling.

Yeah. Playing bass all the time. Even when he's not here, he's still our bass player. It's great. You're on that like six-month, like try out. Yeah. And then some.

It's like, do we even like this guy? He's not a massive favors. Yeah, that's the, I mean, that's the biggest thing is that Connor and I are like best friends. And then I got to get a lot closer with these guys over the last year. And so it's like when it's that simple, when we all get along that well and you're just hanging out all the time, it doesn't feel like, you know, oh, like, oh, I got to, you know, fill in for this band. I got to learn all these songs. Like, you know, see how it goes on the road. It's like, I'm just hanging out with my best friends.

so yeah that makes it way easier any riffs it helps a lot that you riffs it's awesome yeah yeah bass player dude it's it's crucial one of the hardest second hardest member to find in my opinion first being a drummer I think drummers are so few and far like competent you know what you're right how is it out there now with like binding I'm the most privileged person in music I am like I he does he carries so much of the weight of our band like I literally just

write songs and like that is where like I wouldn't know what to do with myself if not for all the resources like he provides like being able to record music and mix and master and having gear and like making touring happen stuff like that I would just be like so I'd be just like a bedroom guitarist like 100% if not for Connor how Jimmy Connor I actually we went to I my ex-girlfriend and him went to the same school uh or yeah youth group back in the day okay yeah good old youth crew. Yeah, and she, he didn't age well, I'll tell you what I. He's been playing shows since, like, 13, something like that.

Yeah. Even playing shows in, like, metalcore bands since he was, like, 13 years old. I'd never met any. I kind of, I grew up in San Jose, but I went to school in, like, a small town right outside called Morgan Hill. And there's, like, there's people that play music out there, but it was impossible to get a band together. There was not really that many like-minded.

Like, I was the only person at my school that, like, besides my other friend that, like, listen, like, core or, like, I was really in a podcast. pop punk and stuff like that like i had to like tell everyone else about that shit no one was really into it that yeah so the first time i actually like got to jam with another group of individuals it was him like i just happened to meet him and who had like friends who've been playing shows they've been doing local stuff for a long time he also had been recording music by the time i was like 17 at the time so it just opened all the doors for me was just meeting like his friend group essentially so so you meet connor's friend group and that that that's lucky

or like like their first person you start jamming with like okay now 100% Especially now that I've been, Mokshod is my first band. And is your first band? It's very privileged. I'm incredibly privileged. I realize that more and more like the more I meet people and like have tour and stuff like that. Like I wrote the Mokhot demos like in high school, like in my notebook, like tabbed them out. And then it was just like I just want to like, I was really into like hardcore.

I still am. But I was like I just want to like make some demos that I would like pit to. Like I just am into. So I like wrote the two songs and recorded them. And by the end of that like recording session, he was like, if you ever want to play a show, I was like, we should do this, this is cool. And I was like, I don't know what that means, but like, word, I'm down. What's a show?

Yeah. Straight up. Yeah, I've gone to local shows, but I was always, it was beyond me the idea of like being integrated that way. Like they were like superstars to me. Even just like just your local hardcore band, like being able to like have everybody in San Jose care about your band like that. I was like, that's crazy. That's so cool. Like that's beyond me.

It's like I get to play guitar outside of my bedroom. Yeah. In front of people. Yeah. You can do that. Yeah. Up until I was 17, all I would do is like. play albums like in my room like standing up like you're like you're playing a set i just play like an

album front to back that's a great idea yeah that's all i would do i recommend that to anybody that doesn't have a band learn you learn your favorite album and then just play it all day and have some type of idea of how you feel holding a guitar and you know what i mean and shit because when i jammed with them he was like yo you're actually pretty good but your timing and shit and i was like what do you mean by that and then i jammed with other people i'm like oh that's what he means some people don't have rhythm some people don't have rhythm and timing what uh what records or songs I'm real with you Don't say it

Like I said I was a late bloomer in like heavy music So like I would jam Like every micam album Okay I learned all of Frank Ayreau's parts So like revenge Bullets and Black Parade

I know all of Frank's parts So I would just play those And then Stores so far was huge They're from Walnut Creek Which is really close to San Jose So like just them being a bay band Like super super influential for me

So I would play both of their full lengths like front to back both guitar parts like I'd spend like two hours a day doing that just because they were like my favorite band and then when I got into heavy music it was like I would play I would tune the same guitar all the way to drop A and I would play suicide silent songs like I would play five songs off the cleansing and then I would just play I would watch I was just so dumb I would watch like breakdown videos and just see if I could just like figure out with tuning it was in because I was like well I could sue my guitar this low like let's just say oh this one's also this song plays in C like yeah

Did you even have a tuner at that point? Like a snark, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Dude, I had a 15 watt with a junior model epiphone Les Paul, and I played on that. Like, we recorded our whole first, like, full-length demo type full-length that we have. Go-Boy. Yeah, all of that was on like a junior model epiphone less Paul with a Seymour Duncan invader. Like, the worst year possible, like cheapest, yeah.

It couldn't stay in tune to save your life. It was awesome. It was awesome. Yeah, so that black one came with a little 15 watt combo amp and I had Berenger, like the cheap Beringer pedals. That was like all I had growing up, just like learning shit. And I was like, yeah, this sounds awesome. You might just got a good, I call them a good batch. Sometimes you get lucky.

You'll buy like a not expensive instrument and just like something clicks. That carried me. That absolutely carried me like for all of my formative years to play. I didn't get another guitar for a really long time, honestly. I played that one forever. I literally played that one until I joined a band. So, yeah. Yeah, junior model, Les Paul, which is hilarious.

I play a baritone now. I play his baritone, which is like completely different. Yeah, but I love that. I much prefer that now, actually. Yeah, because you're on the six strings, right? Yeah, yeah, cool. We played an A for, like, all release and just see how it felt. And I was like, I don't know what it is, but A flat, A sharp, like just that little, you know what I mean?

Just a little extra punchiness. Like, I felt, I felt that. You know what I mean? Maybe it's because of the riffs will be right. Like, it just didn't translate. super well at like lower. So we did like a sharp. Yeah.

Yeah. The new stuff is actually in C standard. Because now I'm in love with standard. I think it sounds so disgusting and nasty. So the, so the new song that the band just put out, that's in standard. C standard.

Yeah. But we play it like it's in drop. Almost nothing is a normal power cord. So you're, I get that still barring. Yeah. Yeah, just barring everything. We've really like, I feel like,

come home with the dissonance. It's a very bloodshed because that was their secret as well. They were, because you're like, this is six string.

I know that's not A or B or G. I'm like, what's you doing? Oh, it's, it's standard C. And he's not doing...

You could do that in E standard and it's so nasty. It is nasty. It's so crazy. We just have to be smart about how you do it. Because that fifth comes through so much,

it sounds like it's an A. Yeah, it's punchy as shit. Yeah. Which it kind of is. Yeah. Because if you put your guitar and drop A, it's A-E. You've just inverted the tuning at that point.

Plus then you get to have those clean power chords, and you can do the hardcore, like, Marauder, Master Killer chords if you throw the pinky on there. Yeah, dude. I love standard. It's just a lot more versatile, I think. I love standard. Then, like, drop is really fun to be able to just, like, riff easier.

But once you get comfortable with the power chords and playing stuff in standard, it's like. But also, we weren't doing, when we were doing empty heaven, on that EP, if there's ever, like, there's hardly ever a time where we're doing normal power chords. And normal isn't, like, barring, like, all in the same fret. Yeah. I would usually do just say if it's, like, on three, instead of three, three, three, three, four. And I would just do that everywhere.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's everywhere. Yeah, that course is. Yeah. I committed to that, like, so hard on that. I was like, we should just be always dissonant, like, constantly. Like, we might as well. So I feel like that's, like, a theme that we really, like, tried to stick with, or at least I've tried to stick with, with like riff riding is like dissonance.

I'm really inspired by bands that can make like ugly riffs that work. You know what I mean? Like cannibal's the best at that in my opinion. It's like how do you guys know like the most evil sequences to play like effortlessly like the next note

as ugly as possible but still works. That's amazing. Yeah. Ugly as possible, heavy as possible. Yeah. Equals mugshot. There we go. Summed it up.

It's great. Is this your first interview ever? Yes. I am so honored to be a part of this journey. We were talking about it and we were like, how are we going from no interviews ever to like arguably one of the coolest things we could do with the Garza podcast.

Absolutely. Oh, we've been, yeah. The format of this is so cool because you see a lot of things where it's like one person talks to just the vocalist and it's over FaceTime and you don't get like the interaction of like the whole group. Yes.

And I think the fact that we're all in a room together is so much cooler and like, like, this is a hang more than like a, yeah. So like, why did you name your band this? Please don't ask that. Please don't ask that. Oh, I'm, that's my next question. Scratch that thing out. Like, well, I guess that's.

Thanks for starting to ask you. It's all I got. Hardest band to ever exist respectfully to everybody that's ever been in a band. I will also say, backtracking a little bit. It's very full circle for us because he would stand up in his room and play Story So Far albums in full.

We met at a Story So Far concert and now being signed to the same record label as them. And obviously in a drastically different lane. Yeah. But like very full circle moment for us as a band. That's actually what I wanted to ask you guys. It seems because you have, I want to say you guys came out 2015-ish.

Yeah. Okay. I think we put out two songs in 2014, but we, like, actually started being a band in 2015. Yeah. Like, playing shows and working on to music. And I think our first tour was January of 2016 or something. We did, like, a little run. Yeah.

But. Yeah. How is the, like, the actual, like, this is where, like, this is where I get geeky. Because I try to get this one little bit. If I get this one bit out from a band, the conversation kind of go wherever it goes. Yeah. Yeah. Because, because no one did it for, like, for me, that, you know.

of back in the day, but how did it, like, what was like the formation? Like, was it one, like, was it just, Michael, was just Connor? Like, what, or was it like, you guys, like, get together and say it started to the band there? Like, how, how was, like, the actual, like, formation? Yeah. So, me and our original vocalist had just been in metalcore and hardcore bands and, like, we're doing the thing and, yeah, having fun. We were in high school, like, it was nothing super serious. I think when we met, I was 16 at the time. And, And we were just like talking and he was showing me like covers that he would record on his iPhone and stuff like that. And I was like, this is cool.

Like we should hang out. Like obviously we have a shared interest. Yeah. He came over and we were just like messing around. And I had like a MacBook and a little interface and like. That's a lot. Yeah. I mean, I was like, I can't afford as a 14 year old kid in high school to go record.

So I'm just going to figure it out on my own. So he came over. And we just started like demoing stuff. And I was like, this is cool. And if you listen to them, they sound terrible. It's like the loudest bass drop you've ever heard, brother. The words maxed out. Terrible program drums.

Guys, heavy. Yeah. But yeah. So, and then like he said, like I was, me and our original focus were like, if you want to play shows, like we, that's all we want to do is just hang out and play shows. I think we played our first show in 2015. Yeah. Until like.

It was a youth crew show. 30 kids that didn't care. Big dumb breakdowns. It was very funny. I was also grounded and had the leave immediately, which is the coolest thing to do, right? That's great. Just the best thing is to play a show and dip right after.

I was super, super grounded. I was, like, in trouble. We, like, really set ourselves up with that show. Yeah. But, yeah, and then I think, like, we found a bass player and we were like, cool, like, let's, let's just keep doing this thing and like

obviously we're in high school or like just graduating it's very inconsequential what happens with this like we're just trying to have fun and we put out Dolboy and it got like it was by no means big but it got like a little bit of an underground following and like people from across the country were like

this is dope and I was like that's super cool we never really fit in in the scene in our hometown just because it's really fixated on like hardcore music which we weren't doing I would say we were doing like almost beat down music. At the time especially. Yeah. I couldn't put a word.

I was listening to this record. I couldn't put a word to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's obviously a metalcore band. Like I always say that. Milkshot is obviously first and foremost very metalcore. But you can hear that there's a lot of influence from like hardcore.

And at that time especially like we were doing real slow breakdowns like the beatdown thing. You know what I mean? But like I said in the beginning like we're all just inspired by like core. So that was like even from the get go, it wasn't like we were like, oh, we're going to make a death core leaning. hardcore leaning. It was just like, oh, hey, this part's sick, and then that part's slow and dumb and this part's sick. That was the only thought process behind it. And because we didn't fit in at all, we were like, let's just try and get to the next state over. Like, I don't know if there's a scene up in Oregon, Washington at this point, but I know that we really like this

band called Low Roads from Arizona. So we're like, let's see if we can go do something with them. So I think it was 2017 is when we did this. It was like, a week-long run. It was actually Ringo. It was my old band. His old band which is how we first met. But we were like, cool. Like, let's just do, we'll do some like Southern California shows, some Arizona. It was the first week of

2017. And also the first time we had ever gone to California. Yeah. Because we were, we were like an Arizona band. And it was the same kind of situation. We were like, let's see what's going on in other cities, other states, whatever. And so then that came together really nicely.

And we play in Arizona and we're like, Okay, this is a little bit better, right? This is a little bit of a step up because these people get the music like they actually care And I think from there we were just like cool we just need to find our home Outside of our home Yeah, where that music is what people are looking for Because if no one's looking for what you're selling and you're not selling Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, and that's like how we just started touring was just like out of necessity to try and play cool shows

We're like cool, let's let's go somewhere else and just see what we can do What's kept us going is the fact that it has been cool like the more that we'd tour. It's like, like, we would go places. And even like when it was like when we were first starting out, even if it was just one or two kids, you'd be like, oh, I listen to Dobley and like, I love this album or whatever. But like, that's worth it. Like, it's a trip, huh? Yeah.

Even all the way, like, 2018, like we play like Georgia or whatever. Wow. And these kids would come up and be like, I loved your album since it came out. It's like, okay, well, then this is worth it. This show alone is worth it for y'all. You know what I mean? So that was really, really cool, like in the beginning. Yeah. And we did so many tours with him and his old bands.

Like, first it was low roads And then that dissolved and turned into him doing vocals in a band called with crows And we did a bunch of tours with them And it was just like, I get to hang out with people that I think are super cool And then one kid at every show is like That album like, changed my life I started playing heavy music because I heard that And I was like, hey, if one person on a tour tells me that

This whole thing was worth it. 100%. Yeah So then at what point did where you would become like official. Yeah, so we recorded Empty Heaven in 2019. We had

been like playing some of the songs and just trying to be like, is this cool live? Because as we grew, we had problems with our music. We were just like no one moshes during this part. So let's make sure we write music where kids want to move the whole time. So that

explains to change. Yeah. Got it. Focus is 100% live music. That is all we think about now is like The same with before it was like this part's sick, this part's sick. Now it is like, how will this go over live? That is all. I want you to be able to hear Mokhot. And if you've never heard us before, but you're at the show, you're like, I can

wash right now. Like, you don't have to tell me what to do. I know what I mean? Like that's just being fun to listen to live, you know, especially. That is like the main goal now. Yeah. That was the main shift. Like, I feel like empty heaven took a really long time.

And it was because we were ironing out those songs for like, the lot. It was really because we were ironed. I was, I'm very, like I'm never happy with rough drafts and I think that was the hardest creative block I've ever had because I was like really trying to we we put out dull boys so fast and it wasn't like I was like I'm immediately like I hate this but it was like I want to be more focused I want to actually like like go for something and so I feel like on empty heaven it's very groove based that's like I always say it's it's very much like intentionally just everything has a groove to it this big mid tempo bounce mosh type you know what I mean I feel like that would be engaging like if you're seeing this band, like, you could always at least get into the fact that they're really groovy, you know? The new stuff, I'm like, let's be fast and, like, gross. Let's, like, freak people out.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, I misspoke. We recorded it in 2020, in January of 2020. Yeah. And we started, I started mixing it. And then the world shut down. And I was like, cool, like, we'll see how long this lasts.

And it's been so long that I want to put out this music to an audience of people and tore on it. And so then we would. waited a whole year and we were like, okay, like, I guess we're just going to put it out because who knows when touring the way that we knew it is going to come back. Yeah. So we put it out

and shows start to open back up and we're like, cool, like, let's start planning stuff. At that time, our original vocalist was like, I think he just realized over COVID, like, this isn't for me. Like, he's going to school now and so we were like, okay, who makes more sense than the person we've done

like 70% of our tours with. Yeah. Then Ringo. Yeah. Best decision we could have ever made because like fully changed the trajectory of the band. And lucky that he was like, yeah, I'm done for sure. Yeah. Because that's a big commitment to be like, I'll sing for your band.

Yeah. That's crazy. I was in, I was raised in Arizona. And so I basically was just in bands and stuff out there. I was in another band right before the world shut down. And that band kind of just like fizzled out with that and stuff. And then I ended up moving over to LA. And I was like, well, I kind of want to start something out here.

And I was like, I'm probably going to end up touring with Mugshot again anyways. And then we kind of started talking. And then I joined. And that was that was that. At the time when we announced that he had joined, it was the most liked post we had ever made. We were like, word. Ringo is everyone's favorite person. He does art, like, as his job, his primary job, he makes artwork for bands and stuff.

So, like, people just love him. And so it was like immediate reception of that, which is awesome because I'm sure you know, like getting a new vocalist is tough. Yeah, it's terrible. Like, who knows, right? Like maybe people will be like, this is cool, or maybe people will be like, that sucks. Yeah. And so I think we were super fortunate that one, everyone loves him already. But two, like he's such a legitimate frontman.

Yeah. And when we play live, every time we get the compliment of like, dude, Ringo, like, he's a front. front man. I'm like cool. It rules. It's like cool, that that's how I planned it. Yeah. I definitely knew that. Was design work too? Like every single show will be like, you will see at least a person, if not several, with a Ringle Waterman original.

Just like some band and be like, I did that logo for sure. Every single show. Like without a film. Yeah. It's a trip. Because like when I started doing design work, it was like, I'm booking shows, like house shows at my place in Arizona. I just need a quick flyer to like promote the show. So I'd just like do some flyers. And then suddenly like my friend was like, hey, can you do a flyer for me?

And I was like, sure, whatever. And then, you know, it was just like on and on. And then Mugshot was actually the first band I did a merch design for. They were like, hey, can you do a shirt for us? And I was like, maybe. So then we'll find out. Yeah, I did a shirt for them and stuff. And then it was just like, oh, I could like, I could do this.

Did you ever have a thought in your mind where like, I guess see myself in this band at all. Like, I would say no, because, like, they were just, like, really close friends, and I'm like, I wouldn't mind, like, I will start bands to tour with this band. Because, like, I just, I love touring with them. And it was, like, every time one of my bands was like, hey, let's book a tour, I'm like, I'm going to hit up mugshot. Because they're just, like, such cool people to hang out with. And it was just always, like, such a fun time. Like, always just, like, fucking around in parking lots.

and like, you know, just messing around and stuff. And so then finding out that like I could join the band, I was like, now I'm just always going to be with them. It's going to be awesome. We're all very like-minded, which is super lucky. Constant, you know, every day, it's just like, we're just hanging out. And that's why I like it so much. And I do think like we had conversations,

because his original band, he played guitar in. And he's a ripper of a guitar player too. And so I think we had conversations where like, if we ever had a second guitar player, like it would probably be Ringo if he was down. And so that just led to the conversation of like, well, he's also an incredible vocalist.

So let's just have him be our vocalist if you need one. Yeah. It seems like it just sometimes seems like choose you. It's crazy, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Or sometimes like, you know,

it's like in front of you. Yeah. You know, I mean, you've been around you know for so long. It's just like he's in your face but like you don't know it's like, oh, this is going to be the same. I've seen in my band for like two years from now.

I never would have guessed. It's how it worked out. It's so weird how that shit is. That's the thing. It's like when we were leading up to play our first show together, like as this group, we had like so many complications happened. We had like our van breakdown. We were dropping like 10K fixing it.

Like we got stuck in Salt Lake and like just leading up to the first tour together. And so we had no time to practice. Yeah. And we basically, we packed up the van, drove to the first show. And zero practice. We were like, all right, let's see how this goes. And then as soon as he counted off, it just like all clicked. Yeah, I felt real good.

And like we were just immediately all in the same wavelength. And then, even then, they hadn't played a show together in years. And like having a new singer, having a new like, you know. It's a lot. Set up. Yeah. And so, I mean, the fact that it just clicked and it was so natural that it was just like, yeah. Yeah, this is it.

Everything that led up to that tour was a recipe for like, this is your last tour. This is the last thing you do as a band. Like, every single thing that we had dealt with up to that point was like, Like if this doesn't go well, there's no reason you shouldn't just stop doing this. And then it went so well that we're like, it's only gone up. Like since we came back from COVID and stuff, it's like it's only been great. Yeah. It's only been like awesome.

I remember that day. We were just on our last like, we were like, this isn't going to work out. Like we're this is going to suck, whatever. And we were all in such bad moods. And like the show started. Our set ended. And it was like, this is the coolest fucking thing. Yeah.

Those first three shows, the first three comeback shows, we made more in. The first show, we made more in merch than we made as our entire touring history in general, all together, in one show. So we're like, okay, cool, this is going to be good. And the next show, and the next show was also like that. We're like, awesome. I can't believe we're back. It feels amazing. Yeah.

Like, we rolled up to the first show, and it is just a, basically a empty warehouse in Walla, Walla, Washington. And it was freezing. It is like 20, 30 degrees. And there is no heating in this warehouse. And I pulled both them aside and I was like, yo, we just dropped thousands of dollars on our van. What should have been a 16-hour drive, which is already long,

turned into like a 25-hour drive. Yeah. If this doesn't go well, let's just go home. Yeah, let's just leave. And let's just be done with it. Because I was like in probably the worst mental state I've ever been in. And then we played to, I think, 200 kids. And I was like, all right, never mind.

This is dope. We're leaving out a crucial detail. We had to backtrack, we had to backtrack bass, which we do not want to do. That's the last thing any of us ever want to do is back, just have someone not there, like, and playing an instrument. But we were left in, like, the worst circumstance as possible. So we're also fingered cross, like, please don't fucking walk out when you see that. There's only three of us. Yeah.

Please don't fucking clown on us for this. And then, like, we kind of did the three-piece thing for that tour. And when people started talking about us, they were like, like, oh yeah, they're a trio. And we were like, trio is kind of sick. That sounds sick. Yeah, and like, I don't know.

It's not that sick. True. Oh, my goodness. I will say, it was very, like, we had someone comment and be like, they sound so good, like, for not having an actual bass player. And someone else commented and was like,

they had a base player when I saw them. And then, like, 20 minutes later, like, I just looked at the video. It was only three of them up there. There was no baseball. That was the best compliment. Thank God. Some people would be like, wait, you didn't have, oh, yeah, huh?

And they'd be like, I didn't even notice that to you pointed it out. Or like, 10 minutes into your set. I was like, oh, wait a second. There's only three of them on stage. That was like so relieving. I don't, you know what our baseballer also used to be like the main energy giver in our band. Like he was one that was like mosh while playing and like really dance. And I was like, I've got a lot better about it.

But it was so hard for me to like play and move. I'm such like. You know, I wear my guitar really high and all that. I'm not even like a shredder. We don't have solos or anything like that. I'm just, I'm the messiest guitar player. I'm so, like, admittedly messy.

He's being very modest as somebody who had to learn all the rest. Come on. I'm not saying I'm a shitty guitar player. I'm saying I'm a messy guitar player. Like, when we're in the studio tracking and I'm watching him, like, play his parts, I'm like, what are you doing? Like, how are your fingers doing that?

It's like, that, well, it looks messy. Yeah. Sounds great. It's very heavy. He has this uncanny ability to write a riff that takes 99 tries to learn. And then on the hundredth time you play it, you go, oh, okay, got it. Like, you can practice it a million times and it never clicks. You can't quite hear it.

You're trying to figure out how the fuck are you moving your hand to get there. And then there's a moment where you go, oh, and then you can play it forever. He's just doing that. I hate him. I call it drummer brain because he started off like, like, with drum lessons. That was the first musical instrument he started playing. And I've recorded so many guitar players that are drummers first.

And I'm like, no guitar player would write that. Yeah. You have to. Yeah, we have a different understanding of like rhythmic stuff. So like when we write riffs, it's like we understand where notes land like on up. Like, you know what I mean? Like we were at one where he was like, he was convinced that this riff was like a weird time signature. I was like, no, this is 4-4.

It's just really fucked up. It's dumb. He's like, no, we spent like 20 minutes. And then he puts it in 4-4 and he was like, that's fucking so stupid. That's so dumb. You can make a 4-4 riffs sound fucked up. Oh, yeah. But it's 4-4.

Yeah. It's weird. It's just all clicks to me, baby. Well, and yeah, the riffs are so much more percussive and percussion-based, not even specifically in the drums, but just in like the patterns, the picking patterns, things like that, the places where there are little spaces, stuff like that. And so even if you, you know, if you look at the tabs, that's only, you know, 70% of what you're doing.

Like the notes. It's a syncopation. Yeah, it's, you can hit, but you have to be like, da, da, da, da, da, da, up. Like things, just weird little moments where you catch. That's something I think we picked up,

because we talked about this yesterday. We're like, when people tell people that were inspired by bands like periphery, I always get like a weird look like, how or why. And I'm like, no, no, I don't want choruses or anything like that. Like, I'm not talking about,

it's like, they approach riffs this crazy, like, percussive way. Like, I think, I think my favorite thing. about like big metal bands like crazy big I'm talking like mushuga type is like or Gurjira those are the two biggest examples is they understand like

percussiveness and like syncopation so when they write a riff that goes da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da the drums go badda da da da da da da da like they actually as a unit make sure that it's drilled in like that percussiveness you know what I mean I feel like we try to put that in our music as well not nearly as fucking massive as either of those bands but the idea is there

you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah you guys have tapped didn't do something. You know, I mean, I think that explains a lot, you know, why, why you're, you're here in that. I'm especially like, you know, you were already, you're already putting it into a position where, okay, we should part of turn around and go home and you didn't. You know, life, life will give you these, these tests. Yeah.

And it's like, do you want to do this or do you, do you want to do that? And it's like, especially, and I'll always do it like, like Connor mentioned, it will always do it when you're not in the best mental state. Things tend to happen in your life where you're not in the best mental state. You know put through the ringer. You will be put through the ringer, but that's the time where you got to push through. You have to. You have to. Those are the moments that just make you better.

Yeah. Like 10 minutes before our set, if you were like, hey, just hang on. Two years later or a year later, you'll be signed up your noise records and like you'll be doing cool tours. I would have been like, literally no way. Thanks, Cooper. I'm going home. And, I mean, that's just. That's what happened.

Yeah. Could not, still can't really believe it. Yeah. That's crazy. I feel like we're really lucky to exist in the time that we do in, like, in terms of heavy music. I feel like we're really privileged because you can do whatever you want with your genre nowadays. Like you can just add whatever flavor.

And if as long as you do it well, like people will listen to it. I think that's really fucking cool. Like today's like heavy music is so malleable and so widespread, you know? Yeah. So I feel like we're really lucky. I feel like even five, six years ago, like the type of music would be put out and be like, the fuck is this? Fucking death chorus.

Like, that's what I feel like, you know what I mean? Yeah, I was so like, because you had at the first record and then like the, like the EP it came out in 2021, like that got obviously got a great like reception. People were like loving it. I was like and then I looked at like at social media. I'm like, there's not many pictures. I'm like, how did they do that step and now you're here? I'm like, how did this?

I don't even know. What the hell is going on? COVID and beyond. It's a lot of tidying up the socials. I hate when you go to a band's, like, socials, and you're like, I want to find out if they're on tour right now, I want to know who's in the band. And then you see, and like, we were guilty of this for a long time, but you see, like, a hundred posts and they're just live shots. And I'm like, I put it the same way. I can't find anything.

I have no idea. Just flyers. That's much worse. Yeah. Really outdated stuff that's like, hey, we're hitting Salt Lake tonight, and it's from two years ago. Yeah. People don't need to... You can move on.

You don't need to see that. Do you know what? It's funny that you're bringing it up because I've been doing this. I have to be on top of like who's in town. Yeah, right. So, and the past six months, I've been noticing that. Like, I go to a band's IG.

I just want to see the fucking tour dates. Yeah. Quick, top, in and out. But I'm like, I'm like searching. Like, where did it's not fun? It's like, where are the damn tour dates? Yeah. Also, I'm not following you.

Look at this mess. And you, you like, have to, play the game a little bit. Like, you have to post so that hopefully someone who somehow didn't see any of the tour flyers or anything sees, oh, they're going to be in Anaheim tonight. I'll go. And, I mean, we've even, we actually stole this from Four Year Strong is where I first saw it. And it's pure noise to credit for it after we met them.

Nice. But our, when you go onto, like, our Spotify, if you have the canvases turned on, it is just our tour dates. So when you pull up our music, if it pops up on a playlist or on radio or whatever, you can immediately see where we're going to be. And we did a headline earlier this year and kids were like, yeah, it just like came on. And we were two hours away at a skate park and we thought it was dope and we looked and we're like, oh, they're playing tonight. So we got in the car and just went straight there.

It's insane. That is such an awesome idea and it's funny. I heard Muckshaw for the first time here. I think with Zach and Jay too Like I put it on I think I just heard about the band name And then I saw the tour dates pop up on the campus

And I was like I'm gonna rip him off It's crazy You just have to be on top of it Because if you listen to Chan on Spotify It's a tour from 2018 That's not Yeah

We gotta move on So yeah So right now you're on tour With my children My Bride Yes And how's that been going? Wow.

It's been great. Yeah. We, like we talked about earlier, we don't usually get like the craziest reception in California. But this tour has been awesome. Yeah, it's very fun. Very good crowds. People are singing the words,

which always blows me away. That's nice. Yeah. But it's been really awesome. And we've toured with No Cure before. And so it's great hanging out with them. And the Your Spirit Dies guys are like the sweetest country southern boys. The whole world.

Sickest band. They all talk a lot less. It's awesome. It's awesome. They are awesome. They're all really nice. And it's like, it's really cool. Like one, like, you know, being out with NoCure when we've been out with them before.

And like, so you have like that familiarity. And then they're friends with No. Or with Your Spirit dies. So it's like everyone kind of is introduced, you know, very naturally and stuff. And then one of the members of MCMB is an original. or one of the members of NoCare is an original member of MCAB. So it's like everyone's kind of like familiar with each other already. So it's like you get to the venue, you unload and stuff,

and then everyone's just hanging out. And it's just like big group of friends. You know, it's like it's just, it's really fun. And I love tours like this. Yeah. Really privileged. And I'm sure you've had that experience of like you like touring with bands that you don't necessarily listen to or enjoy.

And it's very cool to have this one where like, I want to be inside watching the set. every single night. Like both of those bands, or all three of those bands, rather, are so awesome. And so getting to watch them rip

and then also having such like fun times just hanging out with them is like, what more could you ask for out of a tour? Like, it's so cool. Yeah. It's crazy how when you see a band live,

that's like, oh, then something clicks in your head sometimes. Oh, now, now you get it. I wouldn't normally listen to this, but then once you see it.

We think about that a lot. Yeah. Oh, shit. You know, let me, me Jen, that record that I've been ignoring the past five years. Yeah.

I think live is our best foot forward, like, always. Like, whenever I want to, like, show some of my band, I'd be like, no, just check this video out first. You know what I mean? I think our recorded music does rip, but, like, you're not going to get it, I guess, unless you, like, see, like, the energy. That's, like, part of it as well. Like, like, he had said earlier, he likes to write music with, like, a live energy

and stuff. So it's, like, listening to it is one thing, but then when you see, like, the energy projected live, it's, like, so different. it's like just a lot of fun yeah yeah well you guys are doing something we definitely do something it's sick man thank you I was like man why I'm because I was pretty in shock when I found out this was like your first interview and then I looked in the history like the way

like the way the years spread on your catalog I was like how did it hey it was such a big jump yeah yeah yeah I feel like really fortunate that people cared once one that do you Heaven dropped when we put it out it was like we had like 3,000 people listening to us on Spotify or something like that it's over at a hundred and fifty thousand right now which wild it's strange I I I don't know it jumped when no explanation it jumps when empty heaven did come out and we aren't like real numbers and it was like 30 40 or something like that even that's just like that's crazy that's insane I never would made it yeah yeah honestly because then it's you're above at least like a

like local quote unquote you know that doesn't actually mean anything to me but like big deal because we had been touring by that point so it's not like that but like it's it was the point where I could be like oh look at my band and like you'll see that it's like I'm gonna band for real you know what I mean the numbers look more serious but then we were like that doesn't mean fucking anything if you don't play a show and it's not sick like if people don't actually know you like the numbers is just a fucking number yeah so when we actually did come back and like play the shows and the reaction was better than anything we've ever had and it's only been

that way since it's like awesome very validating that we wouldn't keep doing if like if it was just nice numbers and we were still doing shit on tour is like yeah no we're not it's it's still very like strange like showing up to a venue in a city you've never played before and people are already wearing your merch and it's like we've never been here how'd you get that like you ordered that and you wore it to the show yeah that's sick hey jay go up go up what is okay so this first song which is also the first song for brother from ep you how do you say that ego dystonic is that a real real

world real word it's to it think you hyphenate it and I don't want to butcher the actual definition how do you say it again ego dystonic ego dystonic ego dystonic ego syntonic and this word is fucking up my brain ego dystonic yep yeah okay so refers to thoughts impulses and behaviors that are felt to be repugnant distressing unacceptable or inconsistent with one self-concept. Interesting. I can't speak too much because our original vocalist did write all the lyrics. That's a weird.

Yeah. It's a fucked up word. At least for that one. Oh, absolutely. It was touching on essentially like breaking your, like self-disciplined and addiction. Like that's what most of his ego, I would say, is about. Like, it's pretty plainly there. You know what I mean?

Yeah, ego sucks. Yeah, he said that that was name. And I was like, let's name our band that. Like, what are you talking about? Isn't there a band called ego? Oh, fuck. I'm sorry. I have...

There is a band called Ego trip. Ego... Oh, fuck. If I wasn't... I'm sorry, I was on a fucking airplane this morning. I woke up at 3 a.m. And I went straight to airports. Shout out.

Ego trip from Nevada. For real. Or ego talent or ego kills talent or something. I want to help you, man. I'm so sorry. I know. ego ego uh-uh my goodness using google bins with ego morrissey just pops up

he's like first and foremost now it's gonna bug me ego something ego uh they were they they have a record produced by uh by stevevvvvvitz and he's done a couple of our records happy record stevevvvvvits ego

ego kill talent Here we go. I said. Did I see that? If not, you were very close. I think I said, I think I said, ego, talent killer or something stupid. God, don't listen to me, dude.

Oh my goodness, dude. Yeah, ego sucks, man. Eagle almost fucking ruined my band. Really? I would say that it's the death of so many bands. And they have no idea. It's a weird thing that's out of you. It's just like, it would just cloud your judgment and clarity.

Dude, like we, I mean, obviously you roll up to a show, you play to 20 kids, that sucks no matter what. Sure. But you get the bands who are, you just let it ruin their whole day. And they're like, I'm going to blame anyone and everyone for why there's no kids. And it's like, hey, you know what I learned today? That area does not like my band. And that's cool. That's okay.

And I'm going to keep working on it until they do. And it's like, absolutely. Did I get to play a show like in a different part? of the country than I live, that's so cool. It's all about the road. And those 20 kids that did show up, like our band. Yeah. You know, like, they show up.

We played an awesome set. They, next time we come through, those 20 kids are coming with 20 of their friends. Yeah. And it just kind of builds over time and stuff. And I feel like that's something that, like, a lot of people do miss. That it's like you do have to build those, like, personal connections with that small crowd of people that showed up. Mm-hmm. because if it can't do it in front of

5, 10, 20, what fucking makes you think you can do it for 100, 200,000? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Those are the ones that actually matter the most. Yeah, yeah. You know? Well, especially like the amount of scenes

that get built in like what is a C market, right? And then you play to five kids, but you come back and they've told 20 people each. And you're like, well, there's 100 kids. And guess what? No one else plays here. So you are a hundred kids' favorite band of all time. Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah. Like, that's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know I think about that until right now. Yeah, I mean, a lot of great bands or genres are built in C markets. Yeah. Not even B markets.

Yeah. That is interesting. Yeah, like being someone from Arizona and stuff, a lot of people look over it because it's like sometimes the shows aren't too great out there. There's not like, you know, too big of a scene out there. But, you know, once, you know, that scene like started building. up and stuff and then, you know, kids started bringing all their friends and then, you know, a lot of, like, you know, older people in the scene and stuff start showing up. And now you have, like, these massive shows that are happening in Arizona and, like, well, a lot of these

Arizona local bands that are, like, phenomenal fucking bands, like, some of the hardest shit you've ever heard tend to get, like, looked over. But, you know, once people do start hearing about it, it's like, oh, shit, Arizona's, like, a huge scene. And so it's like, I don't know, it's great. I mean, 120 degrees in California. Don't make you a hard day. Yeah. It is hot. Make some angry music.

Cacti, first of all. There we go. Man, I need to write some nasty shit. It's like 120. Let's spend two weeks in Arizona and just see what we come up with. You'll make a scary fucking record two weeks in Arizona. I spent like 23 years out there. I love Arizona.

I can go out of you? I'm 24. 24. 24, wow. Yeah. 24, 25. Michael's 26. I'm 26 in July.

Oh yeah. I just started saying it. I've accepted it. Mid-20. It's also something that I want people watching, listening to know about your band. So you're very, I want to say disciplined and just smart because, I mean, obviously when people walk in, I offer, because I don't know. Hey, there's monsters here. There's beer.

There's liquor. Whatever you want. And none of you drink. This is true. I shut out sobriety, low-key. I smoke weed, but shut out. Shout out sobriety. California's sober.

Was that like, was that disgust? Hey, I mean, we're going to do the band. We're going to go on tour. I just think it's dope that they are sober. Previous members, our old bassist, I think, partakes in marijuana. And then our old vocalist partakes in marijuana as well. And nicotine. And I only mention that because that's just not.

present at all like nicotine alcohol just not present I don't bring weed when we tour I just don't cause horror stories I I I am not gonna pay attention to what state is legal I'm just not and I'm not taking the risk I just refuse like it's not worth it to me no matter what like the smallest amount this is me personally I don't fuck obviously every single fucking tour I'm like yo you got wheat cool I'm your best friend like hang out you know what I mean like Jay J's on top of it weed state illegal 2000 let's see I'm always scared.

And then you got the ones where it's like, yeah, we got Delta, whatever, where it's like, yeah, this is legal. But like, if you set it on fire, it becomes illegal or some shit like that. Well, I'm going to put it in a pre-roll for you. Bringing it across state lines. Go up a little bit. Okay, so U.S. marijuana legal by year. Okay, so obviously.

I'm about to be shocked. California, 2006, yes. Alaska, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Maine. Maine, I was very, Jay, what were doing? That takes me off. Maine, Colorado, Hawaii. Montana? Montana?

Wait, what? Montana, yes? Seems like we're pretty safe most of the time. Yeah, this list is getting longer. And then, Hawaii, no, Mexico, Rhode Island. Is this like, Delaware? Is it criminalized?

Well, so if it says yes on the left, that means it's recreational. If it says no, shit then it's it's medical what new hampshire Minnesota say no but yes on the right yeah so that means medically it's cool

but wow I'm actually really surprised well is this accurate wait go uh what is this updated jay I mean it had some of them from 2023 so it's okay good got to be like with that big gray Texas no because oh yeah Texas is a scary one that's where I hear a lot of bands

get arrested you are mostly safe You know what I mean? Like, you're mostly fine. I just, I don't want to take the risk. Okay, so Michael, can you explain this graph to people just listening? So we're looking at what is recreational, medical, and where it's just simply not okay. And it looks like the West Coast is mostly recreational slash medical, which, who's surprised? Utah is only medical.

And then Idaho is alone with like, nah, fuck you. Get that out of here. Idaho and Wyoming. We're, we're not a, we're not a Wyoming band. We're a fuck Wyoming. Yeah. He said it for us. The amount of times I've seen a band be like, yeah, we flipped our van in the middle of Wyoming. I'm like, I don't want to go there.

I am surprised from Oklahoma, Arkansas, all the way to Florida. Like everything surrounding Texas. Yeah, all medical. I didn't know that. I don't have medical card, though. So that's the other thing, you know. And also, I just feel like I want to save them the trouble of having to worry. Like if we just happen, like, say we're going to like, we play Utah.

And then we're like, oh, we're going to Washington. We have to go through Idaho. Yeah. It's like, well, I'm going to throw all this weed away. Because I don't, if we just happen to get pulled over, you know what I mean? I'm just not dealing with it. I'm not. I'm good.

I've heard so many stories, just bands, like, dealing with, like, like, asshole cops or, like, just, like, getting pinched for anything, you know what I mean? Somewhere like that. I'm sure they appreciate the self-control a little bit. Yeah, just a little bit. Me and Connor are both straight-edge, so. Straight-up, straight-up. Straight-up.

Yeah, we're straight-edge. We don't drink. We don't smoke or anything like that. anything. I have nothing against it or anything. It's just not for me. Connor's a huge dick about it. I mean, hey, if you drink alcohol, you're dead to me.

You know what? I'm confused about this graph. Texas says none. Yeah. That's where all the bands get caught. You go there. You go there, you go to a show and you're like, are you sure weed's illegal? Because everyone has it and everyone is smoking it. What I've heard the most

is people will be like, don't get on a highway. Yeah. If you have weed, just don't get in the highway. It's a felony. And we're like, excuse me? And he's like, yeah, but I still like smoke buntz on the way to work. Like, word.

You all are tough. Hey, Jay, type in, is weed legal in Texas? 2003. How illegal is it? I did think, how legal is it? We go to prison. Yeah, I thought they were starting to make it medicinal, but. Except for medicinal use.

Okay. Punishable by law. Yeah, I mean, we know, we know, we know, someone who got, who was, it was a bit silly. They were sleeping on the ground in a Walmart, like out on the floor instead of sleeping in their van because it was hot. Yep. That's watering now.

Yeah, cop rolled up on them and basically it was like, I have like reason to search your vehicle. Oh no. And they had weed and they ended up in jail. No. And they had to like figure out a way to, like, they're in a metal core band. They don't have bail. Like they're not going to post bail. So they had to like figure out how to get the funds together to get them out.

Dude, my dad would be like, sleep tight. What fuck are you talking about, bro? What was the state again? Texas. Texas. Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah.

So especially if you're, it seems like it depends on where you go into the state of Texas. Because some places, there are crazy stops. Like, especially if you're closer to the border, they are like looking inside every vehicle, depending on the time of day, especially. Sure. But someplace, like, if you come in through Oklahoma or whatever, they're like, whatever. It's like, there's no. Border Patrol or anything to Texas.

We've been very fortunate with the state of Texas. We love the state of Texas. Playing shows, rolling through. The funniest thing that's ever happened is that one time we had, our van was disgustingly dirty, and they had just drew a bunch of dicks on the back of the van, and the entire side of the van was just, like, one, yeah. One giant cock.

Yeah, and we had completely forgotten that they had done this, and so we roll up, like, border, like, you know what I mean? As asking for something. They asked for trouble. They asked us some questions, and then, like, as we pull away, they're like, check out the art, and they start laughing. And I was like, what? And then we got out to the gas station that just dicks all over the fucking thing.

That was good. Yeah. So we've been very fortunate. Best case scenario. Yeah, best case scenario. But to answer your original question, no, it wasn't intentional. It's just panned out that way. And it's great.

It's awesome. Everyone can be awake and drive and we don't have to worry about, well, that person's out drinking now. So we've got to figure out who's driving. It's great. Yeah. I mean, that's so much inconvenience is this, we'll just leave you. It's great.

I'm here hungover. It fucking sucks. And like we said earlier, like, we love hanging out with people who party. We think it's so fun. It's kind of our favorite people to tour with is people who party. Because we don't. So it's just like, fuck yeah, we're here to hang out. And we're going to remember this.

It's going to sick. Everything you do right now. It's like, yeah, they were an idiot. It's a good time for me. Well, going back to something that they had said earlier, like, finding people who are like-minded, but without it ever being a like a checklist that's like, do you drink? Yes or no. But like when everyone kind of lines up on on how they approach touring, how they approach their lifestyles, things like that. And then it's like, oh, cool.

Like you also are sober. Like you also don't drink. You also whatever. And to have that be a coincidental benefit as opposed to like an intentional like choice of like you're not allowed in if you do these things. It just, it's one of those things that immediately you see the benefits and you watch how it, like, impacts how a tour goes, how interacting on stage goes, all that stuff. Like, and it just makes life just that much smoother and all the shows go that much easier because it's one less variable. And like they were saying with writing music and with being on stage, stuff like that, it's just when everyone's on the same page, stuff just goes so much smoother. Yeah.

So it works. We're fortunate enough that we're all like-minded. It's awesome being on tours with like-minded people. Yep. That's the best. I mean, I think on this tour there's like 12 straight-edge people. So many straight-edge kids. It's awesome.

Really? Yeah. Well, No-Kir is a straight-edge band. Yeah. And then the vocalist of My Child and My Bride is Straight-Ege. Yes. One member of YSD is straight-edge. Yeah. So it's just a bunch of people

that are straight-edge. I think Cyrus might be. I'm not sure. Dude, this tour, I would not have fun. Shout out, we'll miss. Oh, my goodness. Shout out. That's great. do you uh and one last question for you michael do you so since like you have like you know obviously just explain your the band like do you are you writing a wrist and smoking or i actually i feel like

i'm useless if i'm high trying to write i feel like i'm so useless i like i i will listen to it high course see how it makes me feel i have this thing where it's like we don't get to practice So I try really hard to like imagine how something's going to feel on stage. Like really, really hard. Because the last thing we want to do is write a song and you're on stage. You're like, this part fucking sucks. Like everyone's looking at me. I don't want to play this right now.

Like that's the last thing I want to be faced with ever again. So like I always put myself there mentally. Like what would be happening here? And I feel like the clearest that does come through is if I, if I do smoking and listen to stuff. When it comes to like writing, I feel like I can't commit to ideas enough. I feel like there's too much going on. You know what I mean? So it definitely, I feel like it centers myself,

brings me to earth and just like, I can put myself like on stage, like think about it. So that's where a lot of like, so if we write like a demo of a song, I'm usually very happy with it. And then I'll smoke or something. And I'll be like, get it in my head. It's like, wait a second.

I can do something. And that's where an idea will start and just like snowballs from that point. I used to like record. I used to record all over music. I still do to a point on like the demos on like an iPad. had like in garage band and if I ever had like an idea like it was a tempo change or like we need to slow down or whatever I would literally have to make a new track I still have to do that so

of course it's moved on to like I just have ideas now and I just keep it in my head and if it doesn't if it never leaves me it's that's that's we're going to do with it like it we're going to commit to that but if it's forgettable it's forgettable you know what I mean but if I had the resources to make demos I feel like we'd pump out music yeah much quicker but it is cool though because the way that we just did like a whole and it's an EP that's going to come out later this year. And the way that all panned out is he had some demos and he

showed up at my place. We sanctioned off like a week before tour. And I just had everything set up down to my little studio in my basement. And like, we were ripping it live as we were playing it. To be like, first of all, does it feel good to play? Yeah.

And secondly, I can get the tempos based off of how we just played that. Like, there's no click. Yeah, it's just like, we play this at 180. I'm not changing it. I'm a terrible jammer. I don't know if anyone, I'm sure a lot of guitar players can relate to this. I'm a terrible like, yo, it's jammed.

Just bring a guitar. Let's go over some ideas. I'm like, what do you mean? Wow. Like I can't just like be in around and be like, oh, let's just start from me. I have to come in with an idea, a backbone, a structure, a riff. Like it has to start somewhere for me. Because I feel like I take myself out so often.

And I'll be like this is some fucking local ass riff. You know what I mean? Wow. Just like too simple or like two like lowest hanging fruit sometimes. I feel like it needs to be put through the ringer. Like your ideas need that extra push. You know what I mean? That's interesting.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm honest. I'll be like home. I'll meet other people that play guitar and be like we should jamming. I'll be like, ah. I'm useless.

I can't shred or anything like that. I'll listen to what you have and be like, yeah, that's dope. Like you have a jamming with like the buddies, but not right. I mean, you're just playing like, you know. When we're at home, uh, the, Like to figure out some of the newer songs, like, we used to all jam at our old vocalist place because he had like the resources to do that. So I'd go and like feel out songs because they have a drum kit. That even just that helps a lot.

Just being able to feel it out with like another person or hear it at a loud volume or I'm not just playing like guitar over a drum track. That helps like immensely. You know what I mean? It just puts you in that like I said like that live space again, you know? But yeah. I think the best is what we did where it's like we set off time and just like he creates what is essentially. a live mix and you just go crazy. Because even the dumb stuff sounds awesome.

And that's what you want is like something where it's like you're playing a caveman riff, but you don't talk yourself out of it. Like it's like, oh, this is too stupid. It's not going to sound good on record. It's like, no, it sounds pretty dope. It sounds pretty heavy right here. I think we can do that. You know what I mean?

That helped a lot commit. I have a terrible time committing to like stuff like that. I feel like that. That definitely helped a lot. Was just hearing it in that context. To add on to that, Connor is a, first of all, phenomenal producer and he produces and writes for my other band, And we run into the same problem where I'll go up with a riff and then just sit down.

And first of all, because he's such a talented musician and drummer, but also just producer in general, we'll play a riff. And then because we're not doing it live or anything like that, we're sitting there, we're doing multiple takes and we're programming drums and stuff. All of a sudden, over the course of an hour, that riff turns into this, like, indecipherable crazy thing. And then it's like, okay, so now we need to find the balance of like, let's pull that back a little bit to what actually sounds. good because you don't know you've crossed the line until there's a point where you like, you know, you step away to go get some Taco Bell or something like that. You come back and you're like, what the fuck

is this? Danger fire escape plan. Yeah. So I feel like, yeah, I feel like having that live, you just sit down, you play the riff and you don't overthink it. You don't overcomplicate it. You don't have to loop it and change it every single time because you're bored of hearing it. Like, once you just sit down and just like jam that shit out,

that's when you know you're like, oh, this is a It's freeing almost to be like, oh, okay, like it's validating to hear it in that and be like, that is heavy. That's not too simple. That's what I want out of this. I would be talking about if another band did this, I'd be like, fuck it, that's awesome. You know what I mean? Just let it be what it is. Is it possible to be too simple, though?

It's about balance. I can't name a band off the top of my head where it's like it's too simple. I can't. I'm not into that. I think like the simple parts really highlight the not simple parts. So it's if you're playing like these super fast, like riffy, like crazy guitar parts, crazy drums, like super fast, whatever. And then you just drop it into just drums just doing a straight beat, guitar, just open chugs,

whatever. It's like that is like as simple as it gets. But because of like the context, it's like that's the hardest part of the song. Best example I feel like is like dime bag. It's like the reason Pantera gets away with walk is because you will, have you heard every other song? Like have you heard primal concrete sled? Have you heard like those crazy riffs he's playing? So like yeah, that dude's allowed to have a riff that's zero one zero for like five minutes.

He's allowed. You know what I mean? It's that balance. Yeah. I feel like where it really comes where too simple is bad is when songwriting is too simple. Like you'll notice that like you'll listen to a band and be like oh it's A B, A, B, big ring out breakdown. Like whatever. Like just like say it's like by the numbers.

I think that's where you'll, I feel like a lot of people might just mentally check out. You know what I mean? But you could have simple ass riffs and have it go crazy. Like on paper, Musugah is simple. You know what I mean? On paper. But you listen, it's like that's the heaviest thing you've ever listened to. And I think the thing that we do a lot is if the guitar part is simple, the drums are not.

And if the drums are simple, the guitar part isn't. Yeah. Because when everything is simple or when nothing is simple, it's too much. Yeah. So like, if it's always 100, it's never 100. Yeah. In the new song that we just put out, there's a riff that is, I tracked all the bass on the new stuff. It is a nightmare to play this riff.

And so I was like, you know what it's going to be? It's going to be kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snap. Alpro fill in. That's why I did that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, this doesn't need anything else. The riff is what's important there.

Yeah. But then you have a, you know, 08 style breakdown and we're like, okay, I need to change the drum so it doesn't just sound like. Yeah. It's all about striking that balance for sure. Yeah. I was actually, I was just talking to the guys from New Spirit Dies about this last night that I think if you have, if you have a complex part and you try to water it, down, then you end up with something that feels lukewarm. It doesn't feel like it's like popping off.

But if you have a simple part that you feel like you have to overcomplicate to make it more interesting, then you wind up with it not hitting the way that you do that. Especially like in our style of music, like you need that stuff to punch you in the fucking teeth. So like if you if you try to, you know, overcomplicate the simple stuff or oversimplify the complicated stuff, then you end up with this kind of like just tepid middle ground stuff. So it's like you have to let when it's riff, Let it fucking riff and when it's simple just let it punch but like if you try to meet in the middle with everything Then it just kind of loses steam yeah

I'm really obsessive about song structure and like songwriting and I'm more impressed by And like a really well written section or song than anything like because I just I don't consider myself like an Exceptional guitar player and I mean that isn't like I literally can't solo to save my life I'm not like a clean tremolo like death metal guy I feel like I'm competent so I'm but I'm really blown away when someone can just write a section where it's like they went from this tempo to this tempo and I didn't bat an eye and it sounded so heavy and like how do you just like have people malleable like tempos and crazy sections like I think that's so much more impressive than anything yeah that last I mean it's a nasty riff on the uh on related single like that fucking last nat that riff which is kind of now I didn't go back and listen to it because now I know it's in standard C yeah it sounds like an engine like that Yeah. Who wrote that? What's up?

How you doing? I like this. Okay, this sounds like so dumb that this is my example when I think about writing riff structure. But there's a band called Chon from San Diego. I'm sure a lot of guitar people know and like them. They do like jazz with metal essentially. But it's jazz. It's all there.

I learned a lot of their songs just to like understand. You know what I mean? And I love when you like, as someone who's like learned a lot of band songs, you'll start to see when it's like, oh, you were just jamming this. Like you didn't think, you weren't trying, you weren't setting out to accomplish this thing. Like this is just how you play guitar. Like, say you were sound checking and you thought this riff was cool. You know what I mean? You can see that style in their guitar playing.

And something that I noticed with them is that's like they will write the same riff for four bars, but they won't let it be the same for all four bars. They will change something about it, whether it's just a note landing on here or like move this up, move this down and whatever. It's cool until you try to learn the songs It stuck with me really hard So if you learn a mugshot riff It starts off with this structure That's like in front of you And then I'm like yeah but then I fuck it up here

And then we fuck it up here and then we only do this once Let me fuck it up here again It's like doing Sudoku It's like a math problem That you have to listen to It's not the headiest music But it's enough to be a headache To play I feel like

You know what I mean But I think it translating to it Having like that caveman reaction Like as a listener I think that's the goal. You know what I mean? Because it still hits. Like that last breakdown is so dumb.

Like it's just like Daneson. A slam. Yeah. It's still annoying to play. Well, it sounds sick. Thank you, brother. I mean, your band should be proud of how far you've gotten.

Yeah. And such like a short. We're from just being from, me and him being from San Jose. I love the RBS scene. I love like the San Jose hardcore scene. I think all the bands that come out of that scene is just, it's insane.

Sunami. Yeah. Tsunami. and Gulch and Drain, just like being, growing up in that scene and seeing the bands that they were in before and like going to those shows, like me and him going to those shows. Like, since before, like, before Gulch was a band, like, I was seeing the band before that and before like Hands of God was big. Like, I remember going to those shows and just being, like, I was so enamored by all of that. So seeing them start other bands and have them reach the level they did is unreal inspiring. Like, Gulch's last show is one of the craziest videos I've ever seen in my life.

You know, that's so inspiring to be like they're from San Jose. It's also cool because the energy never changed. Like when I was 14 going to those shows, like true-hearted and spinebreak are these bands that ended up being what are the current contemporaries. It was always the same energy. It was just instead of 5,000 people in between two warehouses or whatever, it's, you know, 100 kids. But everyone is having fun. And it's the most fun. Yeah, that's the thing.

That's why we're so live music driven is because if you see like Bay bands, especially, in the Bay. It's just like the best cathartic like live energy. It's a party. You know what I mean? And that's we would like I always say this when we talk about like like bay bands. My favorite thing about hardcore and about Bay bands especially is like hardcore today is so malleable like you can add your flavor and it's still hardcore like it's you can add brash. You can add death metal. You can add black metal like you can have these influences that are clear influences but you're still a hardcore band. I think that's so fucking cool. Especially that like those. three things I just named like those are clear influences of those like the big bay bands you know so I've always approached mugshot as like I love hardcore that's like my favorite genre but I'm very aware that we're a metalcore band and so I if we could be that band that's like oh I don't really listen to hardcore but I love metalcore and you guys are like a hardcore band I'm into and then vice versa like be that gateway for the genre that would be that's like all I care about you know what I mean also shout out machine gun Benny from tsunami yeah shout out he's the

best talking about touring with people who smoke we tour with Dude, oh my. We toured this other band These streets a couple times And we love Penny He's the best. He's just the best five Favorite groups of people

Shout out these streets Oh yeah Shout out these streets Shout out Well, I am honored That Seriously, seriously It's

This was quite a pleasure For me to be involved In the upcoming of your band And having like the first interview Dude, for real, Thank you How fucking crazy

Pretty nerve-wracking Wow I was nervous. I really appreciate it, honestly. We're super intimidating, guys, so hopefully we warmed up a little bit. You were like, man, they've never done an interview. This is going to be terrible. They're going to suck.

Well, it's different because usually I have, like, research that I can do and have, like, all these notes and I can pack up plan. It's like, how am I going to do this? And I'm fucking hung over. I've been listening to metal in Milwaukee for 40 days straight. I was like, oh my. Got a nice tan. You're golden. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I went to the Milwaukee Metal Fest. and it was fucking sick. Oh, hell yeah. Who's your favorite band you saw? What did you say? He was Fear Factory.

No shit? Yeah. Probably massive life. Fear Factory is sick. Their new singer is he's killing it. He's doing a great job. Hell yeah. He's doing awesome.

The fans are welcoming him and it's really cool to see. That's the best. Shout off Fear Factory. Oh, that was the lineup? Yeah, that was the lineup. Lemon God, Anthrax. Wow. May Palm Death.

Dude. Shout out. Gay creeper. They were awesome. Depeeda Sandy And Bog is on there Shout out Boggs I saw the Boggs yesterday

So good That's wow I love that they're next to the other Indistinguishable Vand Flying Citation Like favorite logos in the game Yeah so that's where I was For four days

That rules That's awesome Fucking head bang in No thank Yeah thanks for Fitting us in right after Thank you for you I mean this was so for people

I know like this was supposed to be your day off Yeah. And you're probably already supposed to be in Arizona. Now you were part of... Or not way. Like, are you probably going to hung out with your old friends? Yeah.

Which, you know, they're hopefully going to be all at the shows and stuff. And it's going to be so good to see everyone again. I miss the Arizona hardcore scene so much. Like, everyone there is just so cool and connected. And I just,

I'm stoked to be part of it. That's sick. This is super cool. We literally talking about suicide silence yesterday. Like, your band is a band we talk about basically every tour. Yeah. Almost every show we should start talking about music like y'all are gonna come up for sure every single time

Literally yesterday I was talking with your spirit dies about like we're just talking about old deathcore Just talking about like what's like what's your quintessential album and the singer of YSD was like cleansing It's like that's my like one like from back in the day just if I were to take anything and just the genre all in one that's it And I'll meet that motherfucker Connor and I on for for my other band we went and recorded at machine shop so we were talking about oh wow talking about that like Another video that I watch the shit out of suicide silencing, watch the shit out of that. But yeah, it's very, very cool to be here. So thank you.

Yeah. My pleasure. All right. Where can people find you? All of our socials are Mugshot CA. So Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Spotify, all that stuff. We're all over the place. We only follow us on the Mugshot thing.

If you go to Instagram or Twitter, you can find our personal ads. We love talking to people, so it's never an inconvenience when people message us. Try not to be weird. It'd be awesome. We'll talk about it. Either be super weird or just be normal. It's got to be one or the other. Oh, you're getting some weirdos.

You know. Everyone's one at the one would slide in and like, oh, no. Dude, it's an awesome story, though. It's cool. That's fair. That's fair. All right. Everyone, that's it.

Later. Awesome. Thank you.