Garza Podcast - 92 - SPIRITWORLD | Stu Folsom: Deathwestern, Playing Hardcore Shows & Going With Your Gut

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Garza sits down with Stu Folsom. Singer & main songwriter of SPIRITWORLD. https://www.linktr.ee/spiritworldprophet SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB CHAPTERS: 00:00 - The Inspiration Behind SPIRITWORLD, Building a World 05:55 - First Album, Pagan Rhythms, Building a Band 09:49 - Being the Main Songwriter, Being Prolific 13:00 - Self-Criticism 14:35 - Fender Telecaster 17:06 - Coming up with “DEATHWESTERN” Album Title 20:23 - Combining Influences to Make Something Unique & Original 28:23 - Having a Style that Allows SPIRITWORLD to Play Anywhere 33:20 - How to Break Through the Industry as a Band 37:00 - “DEATHWESTERN” Album Cover by James Bousema 42:18 - Remote Mixing & Mastering Process (Sam Pura, Alberto De Icaza) / Colin Richardson Appreciation 49:47 - Going With Your Gut When It Comes to Writing & Creating 56:16 - Tracking Live Drums, Studio Techniques 59:36 - Having a Vision for the Albums 01:01:28 - Working Alone is More Efficient 01:03:50 - Coming Up With Ideas for Music Videos

So, like, that side of my family, there's always been, like, this Western cousins and stuff, like, doing pro rodeo. But then, on the other hand, I had, like, older brothers that are total punk rockers with, like, a half, we had, like, a half pipe in the backyard. So I grew up in this weird thing where, like, to me, those two worlds were always just kind of normal, you know. Whenever I need music gear, I always go to sweetwater.com. If it's mics, headphones, or studio, and recording gear, Sweetwater has you cover. Next time you need any music gear support the podcast by using the link in a description and comment section below It's always fascinating to me how you hear When you casually find a band

Yeah, you know, and most like you know how do you do that? You know, I love and then I reheard Spirit World from a mutual friend Mike Gitter You gotta check out this this bank called Spirit World and they they combine you know thrash death metal and Western. I was like, oh, I just heard them and saw like the artwork like a few months prior. I think a Death Western just dropped and I just randomly saw it. And it's, I don't even know how you do that. Like when you just randomly see a banner or come across the artist, you know, I mean, first off, like, the band name, Spirit World is perfect.

It's sick. Love it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, that's a hardest thing when you combine. two words, simple words, and then you just combine them. Those tend to stick a lot. Yeah, and I, you know, it's important to me, like, trying to do this project, because I've ripped that straight from Young Guns.

And so, like, I had that idea. And so, like, on our demo, like, the original pressing of it, it, like, starts with, like, a sample from Young Guns where it's, like, why aren't they killing us? It's when they're, like, tripping on Peyote going through this Indian village. Yeah. And they're like, why ain't they killing us? us. We're in the spirit world, asshole. They can't see us.

Really? Yeah. So, like, I don't know. I just, like, ran with the, uh, the whole Western thing. Like, I kind of had that thought out before. So, of course. It's funny now, like, a couple, you know, two, three years in, especially with the artwork and now that we're touring more, I get a lot of people that are just, like, the combination of, like, thrash and Western and horror and all this. Like, that's the thing that I think separates a band the most. And was the hardest idea to come up with. You know what I mean? Like to get excited to do a project when I put all that together, like the most thought went into, you know, the aesthetic and like how do I build some sort of world, you know? It looks, sounds at the whole, at the whole thing

is very, you could tell it's very well thought out, you know, and it's, I mean, and for you, I mean, I assume it goes very deep. I mean, you're like, like your bloodline and your lineage, like, like your parents came from Texas. and then moved to Nevada. I'm not sure how closely moved to Vegas. Yeah, they were on my mom's side, that's like the cowboy side of my family. They came up from Texas,

and it was probably in the 30s, 40s. And so a couple hours north of Las Vegas, they had a ranch out there that they were cattle. It was just a working cowboy ranch as my mom grew up. So when my grandfather passed away, like, she was left that and they sold it. Then she met my dad and kind of, like, mid-60s moved to Vegas. Oh, okay. But for, like, a big chunk of time, like, she grew up, like, walking to, like, a little schoolhouse.

Like, like, prairie land shit, like, total just hillbilly. Yeah. So, like, that side of my family, there's always been, like, this Western, like, you know, cousins and stuff, like, doing pro rodeo. But then on the other hand, I had, like, older brothers that are total punk rockers with, like, a half, we had like a half pipe in the backyard. So I grew up in this weird thing where, like, to me, those two worlds were always just kind of normal, you know? It's like you get in the car with mom listening to Johnny Cash and George Jones. And then if my older brother gets in, it's like misfits, social D, Slayer. And so, like, being, like, little, like, you don't know what any of that is.

And then as I got like, I got super into punk rock and hardcore and stuff. And then you realize how weird that is to grow up in a family where it's like, those are like the two things I was most excited about musically, like country and like super underground. Shit, you know. Yeah, it's crazy how this is subconsciously like just kind of stuck with you. Yeah. It's weird. And you have that like, it's kind of like the push and pull because it wasn't.

point like I definitely got way away from like reading westerns and kind of getting like just wasn't as excited about that stuff and then 10 years goes by and you revisit it you're even more excited you know and country music too like I've never liked stuff like the pop country stuff but like the old honky-tonk outlaw country and then I was lucky enough like I caught that wave of all country band so I followed that as close still do as I do like thrash and death metal so it's like having a band where I can like

subtly combine all the things I like in a way that still fits in with like the heavy metal hardcore thrash scene is pretty pretty cool you know it sounds like you like discovered it because I mean you print out demos and singles from 2017

to done a night you have the demo biper blood spirit world you could like and then you drop your first record, pagan rhythms, and that's obviously, like, you know, a massive jump. Yeah, yeah. So is that, like, were you, like, revisiting these memories from, like, your childhood, like, like, around there?

I think what it was was I just decided I wanted to do a really, I wanted to make a record, not really being a band that was, like, functional, like, with bandmates and touring. Sure. But I had this idea of, like, I want to put a lot of energy into, like, making a really good record. And I was going to do more of, like, a punk rock, country thing like the demo and i had like a bunch of it written but as i started learning how to

like demo and like track shit started building out a little studio as soon as i could like um i had easy drummer like easy drummer too and like i started going through the loops and then i'm like buying packs and i start like i got um matt from hatebreed put out a like a drum loop pack oh the fucking drum loop packs dude those are incredible i wasn't good at like doing the midi but then I got like a drum loop pat from him. He had one? Yeah, and it had like a couple like simple breakdowns that I could just steal. So he had like, I just basically that was it.

So then I'm like playing a guitar and all I'm playing is heavy ass shit. And so I just like one 180 took a U-turn, wrote Pagan rhythm, super hard, just all death metal thrash, hardcore and whatever, you know. And now it's like it's grown into it. thing like we're about to go tour with sepeltura and like i saw that in the summer like the europe festival run we got going is just like wow yeah and it's only been a couple years you know it's like um it's funny how an idea like just change your mind do something put everything into it and it bears fruit pretty quick you know yeah i mean just it just looks like you put a lot of time into it a lot yeah from like from like

your first record, like, 2001, and then less than two years later, I mean, you have, you know, Death Western, and then obviously you're doing all these tours, and you're already in Europe with, like, obituary and agnostic front, and you have all these tours, and now you're torn with Sepatura and Creator. That's in June, right? Yeah, that one is, that's like a May June, like, full U.S. Crazy. Death Angels on it, too.

Oh, yeah, sick, dude. Just like, fuck. Holy shit, dude. Yeah, man. Isn't that crazy how, like, your, you just make a, you just make a, you just make a simple decision and then the course of your life just changes, you know? Yeah, and it's, uh, because I was

going to do it as a studio project and I was like, I'm going to ride a couple heavy records, some like country, some punk rock, just do whatever I want with no like, not even getting into the industry stuff, you know? Like the idea was just to make the records, put them out, and then maybe I would just go do some festival

runs if it, you know, took off. And the next thing you know, it's like I got to get the band together. It's like we're going on tour with obituary. We played our first show like, it's been just over a year. And in that time, that's it, man. Are you serious? Yeah, we played a couple with, like, off the demo stuff where we didn't play any heavy stuff

because I hadn't written any of the metal yet a couple years ago. But our third show ever was like a year ago. So playing the metal stuff, like we learned the set. Decibel brought us out for the L.A. Deciple Metal and Beer Fest. Yeah. And it was like Converged doing Jane Doe one night. So that was show number one. It's just like, okay.

And then a month or six weeks after that, we're on the road with obituary. Just like, let's go. Yeah, it seems like it's kind of like built up like naturally. Like the sound is, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you didn't even like, there's no pretense at first to have like the sound. And then you kind of like when the sound was developing. It is kind of, they use, all right, like, this is it. Yeah, it still is to an extent.

Like, I'm writing the third record right now, and I finally know exactly, like, what it's going to sound like. I haven't, like, because I'm, I don't do, I get in my older bands and stuff, like, getting in a room with all your best friends trying to, like, write riffs. I just was so tired of that approach that I. For good reasons, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, it's great. Like, the energy of that is fantastic.

Like, it's fun. But like that when you leave that room and like you have a great riff then you come back the next day and it just isn't the same and then Yeah, I hate that so I just like I like to just write get the ideas do it all so like Yeah write the drums write the guitars write all the vocals and then like Like the next record I'm doing like I'm combining more crazy influences into it where it's just going to be like Like I feel like this is probably the idea that I should have had on the first one but you need to like you need to write the songs, play the show's tour before it really like you kind of understand where you're, where you're headed, you know?

Of course. So I feel like this new one I'm working on, I want to have, want to have it written before we leave for Sepul Tur and get it so I can get in the studio and be. Whoa. Well, I mean, everybody takes several years to do records, but I'm, I'm on the other tip. Like, I'm pretty inspired. I'm trying to, I'm trying to knock shit out of the park, you know? Yeah.

I mean, for you, I mean, yeah, I mean, you're like, you are the main songwriter. I mean, all of it, like, 95% plus. I mean, and that's a, dude, it's, you have to, like, you locking yourself in the room because you're, I mean, it seems like to do all this music. I mean, you're already working on a third record. But you're a very prolific dude. Yeah, and I think it's, I had a gap where I, like, I still played guitar and, like, did a lot of stuff.

Like, I was writing songs, but I didn't share anything. And so I kind of feel a little bit of pressure of, like now, I'm like, I have the, I got Century Media behind us. Yeah. We're giving them three records. So I'm like, it's going to be on them to pump the brakes. Like they're going to get a record turned in and then they have in the contract however long to turn it in. So if they want to wait, they're going to have it. You know what I mean?

So if they want to push the release, I'm going to try and have it done. I'd like to get it out summer 2024 be like. That's it. I like trilogies, man. Trilogies of horror movies, Western. So I'm going to do these three metal records like, you know, get it while it getting's good. Yeah, especially, and you got to take advantage of when you're inspired.

You got it to get advantage of it, dude. And I got like my buddy Sam Pura that engineers and produces our records. Like me and him work really close together on this stuff. So we both have like the idea for the next record. So it's like I want to get it while it's hot, you know. Oh my goodness, dude. I had a question, like, you know, the record's been out for a few months, how you've been feeling? And obviously, well, it seems like you're just, well, you're just writing more.

Well, I just, I actually don't, I don't know, man. I listen and I'm so involved in it by the time it comes out. Like, I can't really listen to it anymore. I'd like, and when I do, I'm like, I just hear the things that I nitpick. Of course. And so it's cool that everybody likes it. It's getting a great response. So I'm like, okay, cool.

But the honest. answers like I'm over that shit like I'm not the kind of guy that like listens back like I don't listen to pagan rhythms anymore like once I finally get him in the can it's like yeah I want to write the next thing that like shits all over those records so I'm kind of like never happy with the um whatever I just did it's great but like I'm trying to do the that that's that's the way it is man yeah you gotta like it's that it's that blessing is like a curse like you're like you're always hungry yeah and it's the creative thing is the best part Like I like when you just come up with the cool, whether it's a riff or a melody, whatever that is.

Like that's my favorite part of all this. When it's like one second, you're playing guitar, nothing comes out and you're just like, I fucking suck. Like, why do I even bother? There's nothing. Yeah. And then like the next day, something. Yeah. I don't know how it happens exactly.

Sometimes the guitar, like I have a telecaster I do most of my writing on. Not a very metal guitar, but like it just feels like great, you know? that's one thing I loved when I started doing research and like plays at Fender Telly I'm in well I mean just I just when like before the research I like listening to like a Disography just going so I went right when I heard the first demo that's a you just know that's the Fender Telecaster yeah yeah and then like then like the second one and then the other single and did you use a Did you use that same tele for pagan rhythms? No on that we All of that because I like on the demos is

It was written with the telly, and I, like, did the demos of Pagan Rhythms, but then when we tracked it for real, that was all with a gym route. It was a Fender. He has that, God, I don't know what it is. He has 20 of them. Like, flat black, like, heavier than fuck. It's just, like, you could, like, break down doors with that thing. He's either, like, the Strat or the Jazzmaster.

It was a Jazz Master. All great. Sam Pura has one. I think when he was doing the 100th record or something, they had a Fender deal, so he was, like, got the artist price. or some shit. Great. So I like,

I touched that thing and was like, oh, that's the rhythm tone right there. And then I think it was a, he's got a couple guitars.

We usually use his stuff when we record just because they're set up and like, good to go. And he's an Everton guy, which I hate. And so,

like part of the, like recording thing, the give and take, I like really, like clear pop productions and his work with, like, stories so far

and 100th and, like, bands and his discography where I listen back and I'm like, oh my god it's so clean and like punchy and big i want to do that but like with thrash and so part of that is like me even though i hate using the evertunes like quad tracking meticulously doing it piece by piece and i'm like it takes all the fun out of recording but i'm getting closer to like

that guitar tone on a record that's in my head you know yeah like that journey is still like i think i'm going to hit it on the next record i'm sure everybody says that but like Sure. It's like in your head and you try to get it on the fucking record. It's like, why? It's not sounding like it sounds in my head. And then that makes you go to the next record and so on and so on. Yeah.

And I like that too. Like the recording and the creating part is by far my favorite. Like playing shows is fun. Like there's that it's exciting or whatever and like it makes you feel good. But the fun part is like dialing in like the guitar tone. And you're like, I did it. But then I listened to it too much. And then like now I listen to Death Western.

I'm like, fucking guitar tone sucks. Like, God damn it. Next one. The next one. How did you come up with the album titled Death Western? I was going to. It's a great title, man. Yeah, and it fit into it.

So it was a song title when I was writing the record. So I had it. It was just going to be a song. And I think Gitter asked me on like a conference call or something. It was like Centro. media and like some management folks, but somebody was asking me, I, somehow they, somehow Gitter jumped on it and it was like a, like they pumped it as like they played Death Western.

But that came about because I had like the song title. And I was like, this is a badass song title. I don't have a riff or anything yet, but like this is a cool. Oh, wow. And then on like a conference call when they were asking me like, well, what should we say the type of music is with you blending this? I'm like, well, I'd like this song title. Western. That could be like the next album title actually. And they're like, oh, that's perfect.

And so then it kind of morphed into like them marketing and doing their thing. Interesting. Yeah. So I get people asking me like, you're creating a new genre. I'm like, pump the brakes, playboy. I'm just like, you know, is what it is. But like that Death Western title just, I don't know where it came from, just mixing death metal and Western. It's simple, but it's kind of catchy enough where it like it's perfect you know. Dude, coming out with that those simple two words and putting together, that's the hardest thing. Dude, I consciously do it all the time.

It's so hard to do, man. And you got it. Yeah. And it's hard that like when it happens, like you always feel way smarter. But the truth is like it's a total accident. It's always an accident, dude. Like Spirit World, Death Western and all these things fit so well together. But like, I couldn't do it again.

Like if somebody was like, dude, you're genius. It branding and marketing. Help me. I'd be like, I can't help you. I don't even know how I'm doing it. You know, it's just dumb luck and I don't know. Do you think it's, there's like a parallel with you being disciplined and hard work that those ideas just kind of fall out of the sky?

I think so. I spend so much more time focusing on this stuff and, like, the work aspect of it than, I mean, an incredible amount of time. So to me, I feel like I work really hard, get very little great riffs, great ideas, great, like, visuals. But I get just enough that we need. I got an album title. I got, like, you know, a cool look for the band.

So it's like, you only need half a dozen of these kind of great ideas. But for the time spent, it's like, I don't do it quick. I can tell you that. Like, it takes me a long time of, there's a lot of shitty song titles, you know, that So yeah, I would say 100%. It's all just the maniacal amount of work that goes into trying to, like, mine for gold. That's it. And then you get that little, you get the one keeper, you know?

Yeah. It's like you're mining for gold without trying. Yeah. And then you just happen, just one nugget of gold hits your, you know, your mind. I don't know. We're like, what the back of that come from? Or yeah, you've been mining for fucking five years. Yeah.

That's the other thing too is like a lot of people ask me like how when I'm writing like because the blend of like we don't do clean singing or anything but we're not like we don't sound like everybody else

but we do have like I guess we mix a few different like underground genres that people don't typically mix the way that we do and I'm just like that's just the shit I like you know like number one

I'm just a fan so trying to write a record that I will truly love is the goal. And then I love like old obituary, like Slayer. But I also grew up like through that golden age of hardcore where like shit like hate breeds, strife. Like that stompy like era. I love that stuff. And so like combining all those things to me is just, it's easy because that's the stuff I like, you know?

Yeah. It seems like you never compromise your vision at any point. Well, when you cut out all the, that's why I don't like getting in a room in writing or, or like any of that stuff, because it's, I just want to do what I want to do, you know? As selfish as that sounds, it's like... Sometimes you got to do it, man. Yeah, and it's, like, I'm doing it for me at the end of the day,

like, I didn't plan on doing a whole lot with this band, and it just so happens that, like, all these opportunities pop up that I'm taking advantage of, but it's like I would still be making these records with or without Century Meter or anybody. You know what I mean? Like, which sounds weird to, like, because some people need to tour

or get that kind of fanfare or something out of it, money or get a business, but I really like records, man. Like you said, when you stumble on a band that you like, I do that every week. I just, like, am constantly looking for finding,

like, I need that new song, that new band. And that's, like, just a part of my life for so long, it's, I don't know. So I try and make that band, I try and be that band, you know? Yeah. I want to be the band. band that if I found, I would literally just like have to call my brothers, my best friends,

and be like, holy shit, dude, this is the band. You know what I mean? Like when you're young and you like feel that passionate about music. Oh yeah. And so it's cool. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Like it's rare when a band really kicks my teeth in where I'm just like, holy fuck. Yeah. But like that's kind of the goal too. It's like I want to be that band for somebody else, you know? Yeah. Yeah, we're very similar in that way. We're like, just create, You're, try to create your own favorite band. Yeah. You know.

It sounds simple, but I... It's not. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds, you know, stupid. But, yeah, when you actually try to do your, oh, man, try to get that sound out of your head, you know, it's tough. Yeah. And I was just listening to it.

Like I said, I heard the pod with, um, Dino on it. But I've been going back listening to Fear Factory quite a bit over the last year. And like, I remember being in high school. They toured with Slayer. And all my friends went through this show in Boise and came. back and we're just like Fair Factory fucking Blue Slayer off the stage and I was just like go fuck yourself like no way and for whatever like when you're young and you just can't like really get into something I would just like could not really truly love Fair Factory until later and now like I keep

going back to their first like three records and I'm just like fucking incredible God what a fucking band over and over like I don't know so I I I I I I think I do that too where it's like you go back to things that 20 years ago people were telling me this is the best this is this is the band and as too stupid or obtuse whatever you know to hear it then and then you you know it's cool to go back on like oh wow why why why did I not love this back then yeah and I think as you grow up too you just stop ever hating on anything because you know like maybe I can't hear it now but I know myself and in 10 years this could be my favorite record so that's generally what I say if someone tries to turn me on to something I'd be like

cool like I can't hear it right now but maybe you know I'm open at some point this could be my shit you know yeah do I remember in high school like there was uh everyone was jamming dystopia and I just didn't get it back then but now it's like you know I'll turn in my 30s love dystopia obsessed with dystopia so weird how like your your your uh your taste can can change and evolve yeah you know and I I think it's cool, too, if you're open to it. That's where, like, when you're young and you're, you know, you shut yourself off because you're only, like, into these little narrow things, you know?

Yeah, it's nice to, uh... I just like finding new shit. Like, that's the main thing. I like making new songs. Like, I don't want to listen to the last song I did. I want to make the new one, you know? I want to find the new band. Yeah.

I don't know. It's that hunt. It's like the collector syndrome, you know? You know, not other people have that, like, that's constant hunger or just constant hunting for new bands. It's a special person, man. You know, if you look at a lot of your friends,

like, none of one has that hunger. No, and I don't know. I think I've always just been like that. Like, it's, I don't know, it's fun, you know? It is. Like, it's nice. And it's that little joy you get when you find something cool, you know?

Yeah. I've been listening to a lot of, like, there's a lot of the new kind of American skinhead bands going that just, Oh, wow. Just OI stuff that, like, I love OI. But, like, you go through phases where, like, I've heard every fucking band. You can only listen to Cox Bar so many times.

But then, you know, there's all this new stuff popping off, like, Liberty and Justice and all these cool bands all over the U.S. So I've been, like, the last few months just jamming the shit out of that, too. Like, I don't know, man. Yeah, and then you go through paces. Is this the band you're talking about? Yeah, I love Cox Bar. That's like, I mean... It's a sick man name.

Literally. Shot Troops is one of the best albums of all time. No doubt. What's it called? Shock Troops, man, right there. Oh, wow. That's like first wave punk rock. Late 70s?

Late 70s? They don't get the, they don't get the, um, cred in the U.S. that they should, but I mean, front to back. Classic, 10 out of 10. Where, uh, where are they from? They're from England somewhere. Why has it a lot of great punk rock come out of England?

I don't know. Hard to say, man. A lot of good stuff. But there's a bunch of cool new bands. Liberty and Justice out of Houston. Conservative military image, I think, like out of Chicago. They were newer? Yeah.

Slugger, I think, is out here. Slugger, what a sick fucking bad eight. Dude, Slugger's tight, man. I don't know if you guys are like, whoever listens this pod. This is a heavy pod, but this is like, I listen to a lot of stuff, man. I love punk rock, love, you know, street punk, boy, all that stuff. There's a lot of, you know, versions of heavy, man. Yeah.

To the always stuff, the punk, the metal, the thrash. Anything underground, too, like, whether it's, you know, death core, death metal, thrash, black metal, like, all that stuff. Like, I don't know, I pull from all of it. I dig it, you know. It makes sense. When I listen to a spirit world, it's just, you just throw everything in there, you know. I do. And, like, that's what I mean on the new record.

Like, I found another way to blend some more of this stuff. So, like, I'm going to bring in some more of, like, the four on the floor, catchy punk rock, like, where the bridge, you bring it into more of a sing-along thing. Because I haven't been doing that. I've been doing a lot of just, like, fuck you. Here's, like, the eight hardest riffs I wrote the last month. How do I put them together and just, like, beat your head in? So now I'm going to do some more, kind of bring some other stuff into it, you know?

That explains, like, you, like, you're being so hungry. find new bands and going back to older bands, like Spirit World has this thing. We're only, like, only a few bands have. Only a few of them where, like, you could kind of play any show. Like, you could go play with Ignost your front. Then you can play with obituary. Today you're going to play with, like, a death chord band with a sulfur.

Like, only a few bands can do that. Yeah, and the cool thing is we don't fit in with anybody because we're so, like, we come out in, like, Ryanstone suits looking like a honky-tonk band, And so, like, when we were on tour with Agnostic Front, like, we're playing in, like, Berlin, and there's people that have been watching Ignostic Front for 30 years that, like, when we walk out, the vibe is, fuck this band. Like, they're just looking at us, like, what is this garbage? These dudes have cowboy hats on. And then halfway through the set, like, you just see them break down and they just can't help head banging a little bit.

Wow. And then afterwards, they come up by a record, and it's, like, having that, being a little fearless, too, like, It takes a little confidence to walk out into a room to a bunch of, like, you know, traditional skins and punk rock dudes and then play thrash metal in rhinestone suits. But if you can, like, get over the hump of, like, not giving a fuck what anyone thinks because you know the set is really good, like, you can win people over, man. And that's how you fit in, at least for me, it's, like, have a crazy idea. And then don't be afraid to put yourself out there.

Like, I don't care if it's... We played with like Mind Force and Drain. That was our last show, like huge, like new school hardcore show. Yeah. So you play that. And when we play, like, all the lights cut off and it's like, we put on a show. So it's a totally different vibe than every other band. And then, you know, our next big tour will be with Sepaltura where it's like old school thrash legends.

Three of them. You know, it's like, and then us. So it's, I think it's important to try and who wants to be in a box. You know what I mean? It's like, I want to be able to play with all my favorite bands. And I have such eclectic taste. Like, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. Like, you got to be able to, like, you know?

Yeah. So when you're playing with agnostic front, like, you're talking like old school hardcore, like, and you're wearing what you're wearing. And what's like, can you see like the reaction in their faces? Yeah, no one had ever heard of us because that was our second time to Europe. And like I said, we've only been playing shows for a year. So, like, we went over and did bloodstock and did a handful of shows in August. And then we did a U.S. tour with creeping death and 200 stab wounds, which that one, like, that's the new school, you know, like, new wave of old school American death metal thing going on, which is also cool. But, like, those kids all come out of the hardcore scene to some extent.

So there's a lot of crossover. Yeah. And then the agnostic front one, like, yeah, it's a total, it's an older crowd. and they had their whole run on epitaph, so they have a lot of people that love their melodic, like, their melodic, songs, you know what I mean? So, like, we come out and there's not,

it's just brutal, heavy shit. Dude, it's crazy. You're only been, like, your first record came out a year before this, and you're already playing a European festival. Yeah, man. Crazy. You guys are fucking nuts, dude.

Well, and part of it, like, I was in old hardcore punk bands, And you just learn, like, if you want to be successful and, like, carve it out, you got to get to Europe. And so it's like, you can wait two years or you can, like, go kick the door in. And so I just, that's one thing. As much time as I spend on the writing and creating all this stuff, like, you got to put yourself in the best position to succeed, you know. That's why a guy like Mike Gitter, who, he's like me, he's always finding new bands. Always do it.

Like, that's another freak, you know. but like a guy like that like that's my segue into getting distribution by Sony you know get picked up have them re-release the album that I released DIY and then that's how we were able to get to Europe you know so it's like those two things it's like you got to know who books the bands you love and like randomly Nick Storch hit me up because he loves pagan rhythms so right then I was like random I was like that's the best guy like if I could pick a booking agent that would be the guy and he's already like showing his cards that he loves my band so then it's like well shit if nick storch loves my band this is going to be crazy you know you like you like manifested without even trying i think part of it was because like i kind of knew what to do if you had it popping you know like for being around and knowing a lot of people and then not having like the like i didn't need any of this to happen but i was smart enough to like pay attention to

and be like, but if it was going to happen, these are the people that, like, you connect with, and these are the things you do to go break a band, you know? Dude, that's like, you just have, like, this natural quality because the question, like, you get, it's, like, it's old. Like, you know, how do you get a manager guard? How do you get, like, a booking agent? You're like, I don't know.

You write a record that makes those people fucking, like, when they hear it go, yo, and then they call somebody and say, you hear this? It's the same thing. It's like it happens. Like it's not because I'm anybody's darling. Like I'm not in the click. I'm nobody's like boy.

So it's like the make a record. Like that should be the most important thing. Instead of like getting with your friends and putting out those five songs immediately for $1,500, it sounds like shit and you love it. Like take time, man. Like make the art number one. And then you'll, it cuts through the noise. Yeah.

If you're willing to put in that, that time. Yeah, the time and money, because, like, I recorded Pagan rhythms, like, all that's out of pocket. And, I mean, I spent the same amount on that

that Century Media gave me for our next record, you know? So it's like... Whoa. Really? Yeah, I'm willing to, like, I believe that I can make a great record and I knew to make a great record.

Like, you got to get in the studio. It's going to cost you like 10 grand. Like, what if no one buys it? It's like, well, I'm out 10 grand, but I'll be proud of a record. And, like, no one, was pushing me to do these things, you know, there's no outside pressure. It was all just self-driven. So then when I put it out, like, I sold out the first vinyl pressing, like, within months.

So it was like, immediately it's like, okay, the record's good, you know? Like, you don't need hype if, like, the shit's good and it does it itself. You know what I mean? When the music does it itself. Yeah, like, the artwork and the music, like, I don't know. And I realize that I, like, have a good career. And so I come from a place where, like, I could save up money and be like, I don't need help. I can write the whole thing. I can record it.

I can pay for a pressing. And if I lose out, like, it'll suck. But I'm willing to do it because I need to make a record. Yeah. And I realize that's an incredibly, like, blessed position to be in. Yes. There's a lot. Even, like, five guys sometimes can't figure out how to get three.

grand each to do their songs justice you know yeah man you just you just had that freaking natural something something inside you i'm always kind of like fascinating what is that shit coming from i i don't i don't know it's weird i don't think it's i don't know you know people ask me and i don't think it's talent i think it's almost like a level of um it maybe it's like just like a love letter type thing you know it's like uh like that pride maybe you know it's like if you're gonna make a record like what's stopping you for making a record as good is like your favorite indie label, you know? Whether you're into like metal or whatever, pick your favorite label. If it's 20 bucks spend, like how much do they spend on these records, you know?

Yeah. They all use the same 20 engineers, the same 20 producers. They master them. It's like nothing really truly separates you from any of that, at least in this day and age, you know? It's true. So if you know what they're doing and you have good songs, like, Why can't you make a record that immediately catapults your band? Like, the answer is you can just do the work, you know?

Yeah, I mean, you put out like the first record being independent, and I just kind of picked up by, I mean, literally like from a label, from a booking agent, people just want to work with you. Yeah. You know, it's crazy. Let's, Death Western, the cover. James, Bauer. Osama from Las Vegas.

Everybody that worked on the record, all the artwork and layout are all my friends from Vegas. So, like, we went and ate tacos at El Puerto Marisco's. It sat down, and I was like, here's the idea for the record. I want to take, because I wrote a book of short stories that came out with pagan rhythms. It has all the characters. It's this big concept between the records and the book. So I was just, like, describing the, um, the characters I wanted.

I'm like, I wanted 1960s, like, horror movie poster or an old Western where you take the characters and you just like, so basically I just asked him to draw me a movie poster. And then he gave me some sketches and was like, what coloring do you like? And he had, I got to post it, but we have like three or four of the other colorways and like the sketches. They're pretty cool. But I love the orange. I'm like super bright and it doesn't like.

Like, doesn't look like anybody else. So I'm like, that's the one. Like, big ass cowboy on it smoking. Let's go. Sticks out. It fits the vibe. It fits, man, it fits like the record title, everything. Yeah, man.

Dude, it's hard to get all those elements to align. And it's a fucking special thing when all those things is fucking this line up. And it's, it doesn't like, I didn't like peg him to do the record. Actually, Gitter wanted. He had this Frank Frisetta piece. And I love Frisetta. and it was like something from the 70s where it's like an Indian and a cowboy like tussling with the tomahawk like in the dirt. It's pretty violent.

Like it's a great picture. And so we talked to the Frisetta's daughters that like handle his estate now and got permission to license it because they won't license stuff to just anybody, you know? Yeah. And so on one hand I was like my older brother that plays bass loves Frank Frisetta, death dealer, all this comic book shit. And so he's like, on one hand, shit in his pants. He's like, dude, you can get a fucking Frisetta. Do it, do it. And like I wanted to.

But then on the other hand, I was like, yeah, but it doesn't have the characters from like my book. Like I want to get like somebody that can custom do it. And every artist I hit up was like, nope, can't do it. Not for that budget. Like if you want an actual painting with all this like custom bullshit, fuck you. I'm not the guy. And then we played with municipal waste. and the guy

Tony was like oh yeah check this out and showed me the cover of their last record and it was my buddy from Vegas did it I was like

I'll hit him up I was like I'll fucking hit him up and it wasn't their record it was actually the tour art for the tour we were on he drew this like minotar with like a battle vest with all like the bands

on like patches just crazy shit and I was like well if he can do a fucking minotar with a bunch of heavy metal like patches on it maybe he can do my movie poster, you know?

Yeah, you really combine, like, not only, like, music stuff, but, like, yeah, like, stuff from, like, you know, film. Yeah, it would have been sick to do for Zeta, you know? Like, I love his style. But at the same time, like, I do have this big, um, I like my own stuff. Like, I want to build my own, like, mythology with my band. And it's, like, as cool as it would be to license that. Everybody does that, you know?

You pick a great artist. You license something. it doesn't actually fit with the subject matter. You're lucky if it does somehow, some way, like, conceptually. But sometimes that's random, you know? Sure. So, like, for me, like, the, I really wanted to have, just build my own shit, you know. That's always cooler to me, I think.

It is, man. You got to, I mean, you want to be a leader. Yeah, he just did, um, the new Frozen Soul that's coming out. He did the cover of that. I think they just released it. on their new single that came out, I think yesterday. Really? Came out?

Yeah. That's another band name I heard about from the famous Mike Gitter. Yeah, Frozen Soul Rules, man. What's their sound like? I never jammed him. They're like old school death metal, like little chainside, but like they're heavy as fuck. Yeah. And they're like all Texans, just like giant dudes.

They're great, man. They fucking bring out a snow machine at some of their shows. the lights blue. They have this whole, like, fetish for everything cold. So, like, frozen soul. Cold school death metal, baby.

Oh, just my logo. Okay, we're fucking serious, dude. Yeah, that's a new one. So. That's serious. Yeah, James did that one, too. It's sick. Really?

Mm-hmm. Whoa. What's going on there? What's happening? I don't want to, he showed me, we had lunch a couple weeks ago, and he showed me all the artwork,

but I'll let them reveal their, yeah, that's fucking. They have, there's some cool, there's some cool stuff with that artwork that ties into it, like, the front and back, it's tight. A full, a full-on, like, you know, concept. Yeah, it's cool. I love that shit, man, when, like, there's, like, really thought put into it. Who mixed, uh, who mixed your last record? Sam Pura.

He, um, engineered, mixed, and then we actually, he was going to master it. And then, um, this dude, Alberto in, um, Austin, what were we doing? I think we were trying to see if anybody could beat his master because we had a mastered version and so we had two or three different people like do a test master and this friend of Sam's Alberta just fucking crushed it man. Sounds great. It reminds me of like a 90s

like Collin and Bridgerton mix. Exactly. That's like the reference stuff that I was showing Sam. I'm like, dude, the old like like the machine head all these like roadrunner releases that came out Colin Richardson

yeah yeah Jay look up Colin Richardson I'm curious like the records he did in like the 90s like so fucking bolt thrower machine head like bolt thrower? Yeah fuck yeah oh my goodness dude yeah he rules man

and he doesn't do a lot of interviews and stuff I wonder why he should I don't know there's very little stuff but he's got some incredible albums, man. Machine Head. What, uh, what, uh, what record did he do?

Burn my eyes, man. Burn my eyes, okay. And I think, um, I want to say he's, uh, he's definitely like in England somewhere too, man. He is in England, yeah. He did Cannibal Corp's, uh, bloodthirst.

And I know that, because I always like kind of go on that record. When did, when have bloodthor's come out? That's 90s, right? I don't know. what year that one was. Late 90s, probably.

Blathers has to be 90s. 99. Boom. Oh, barely got it, dude. Barely got it. Yeah, that's a fucking Colin. Colin Mix, man, classic. Yeah.

I love those, like the, I love the big, when the old industry, when they had the majors and the bigger Indies when they would spend 200 grand on a record, you know? Yeah.

And it's like, those are the ones that I can't get out of my head because it's like the classic, like, ministry albums and Fair Factory, Machine Head, like, Life Agony, even, like, Madball, like, the bands that, like, were coming out on Roadrunner, like, in the 90s, like, the polish and the drum tones and the sounds, I'm just like, they're so fucking good, man, and it was all the tape. Like, it was in that transition where it was still, like, really nice studios, huge budgets.

And, like, those are the records where I'm, like, in my head, I want to sound like that, but like modernized you know like just just pick my favorite parts of those productions so it's um yeah I mean those are like the

that's a dream man you know make something that shit's on Colin Richardson like can you do that is that possible like probably not but like that should be the goal you know

yeah yeah it's nothing like a good fucking like sounding produced record yeah and I love big ones like I'm not afraid of like the pop sound so I like if you listen to Death Western and headphones like

there's like a lot of space. Like you can hear like and it's just really punchy and dynamic. Like I hate the compressed like a lot of records when you listen to them. It's just so compressed and you just don't have like that that pop, you know? I like that big shit, you know? Yeah, there's like a big sonic difference from the first record to your second record. Yeah.

And that's like being critical like the not having the time because pagan rhythms like I paid for it. And it was like good. but it was also like there's a lot of things it's like okay out of money out of time sounds good like let's go and then for the next one me and sam were like okay we're gonna fucking hit this one out of the park you know it's crazy how you could go do like the same person but it will sound the next record will sound completely different yeah it was kind of blew me away just by having like a couple like conversations prior like a couple the mixing the mixing um on death western i've never done it like this but we did it remote where I would log in.

He has a way to do a stream. So I'm hearing the sound that's coming out of his computer in the studio. And so for like a month, dude, like I would get off work. Like when he'd get in there, we'd spend four or five hours a day like just mixing the fuck out of Death Western. Like more time spent on that than like probably any other piece of the like recording thing. And it was like the last week all that time. like we thought we had some good rough mixes and then something happened in the last week

where it finally like just happened where it's like, holy shit and it just sound incredible. And if we hadn't spent that much time, like it wasn't there. It like, it sounds crazy, but like all that tweaking out on it, thinking it sounded good,

it was like the final like 10, 15 hours, it just came together. Like finally got the guitars to sit, the drums, everything where it was just like, boom that's it that sounds like a lot of agony horrible that's why i can't listen to it that's why like to like all that time listening to it i'm just like one day 10 years from now i'll revisit these and i'll probably love them but right now no so wait you so you mixed it remotely so you you hear what what he's hearing where where you're at yeah and i've never heard that in my life

Dude, the COVID shit, man, like opened up a whole new world of doing things. At my job, too, like, I never worked remote before. I've always been, like, in construction type shit. And I moved into process management, and I have a remote job now where it's like, I do a lot of the things. I don't go in for meetings. I jump on Zoom and it's crazy. Like, I'm virtual guy.

And I never, my job didn't exist a couple years ago, and it damn sure didn't exist the way that we do it now. you know? Yeah. Same thing with mixing a record. So, like, all these, like, technology, like, weird things, all just kind of work in my favor, too, like, dumb luck. Because I couldn't have went up to the studio and spent that much time, like, no way.

Yeah. But being able to knock out three or four hours, you know, jump on, sitting in my bed with my cat, like, you know, Jen would come walking in from work, and I'd be, like, headphones on, like listening to it be like, no bro, the fucking snare. It's like the snare, the snare needs to go up. And then you get the snare up and then you lose like the...

Sure. Whatever it is. Like that's what we did. Day after day, it's like, this sounds good, this sounds fucked, this sounds fucked, this sounds fucked. You're fired. Bounce it down. Bounce it down.

And like that was another thing with the label where like everybody has an idea of like who should we have mix it, who should we have do this? And I just, I already knew I was going to do the record with Sam. so I was a pretty bad creative partner for Gitter and like the label and everybody and our management because I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love all the guys you're talking about. When I'm done, if you don't like the mix, then we can have somebody else take a crack at it.

But like, I got it. Don't worry. You see, that's always like the tough part, which, you know, got me through this. Like, at one, at what point do you like, you listen to somebody? and you know when not to listen. You got to go with your gut. When you're younger, you think everybody knows they have this special experience, life experience, talent,

and they know more than you. And I learned in my business career and in the band stuff, nobody spends as much time as I do with my stuff. Nobody. Like, I spend thousands of hours on it and everybody else that ever comes in with an opinion, maybe they listen to the demos that I sent them to check out.

Maybe they listen to them three times. I've listened to them a hundred times. And maybe they've worked with like Arthur Risk. I love his productions on like Power Trip. He did the new creator. There was a bunch of great guys that I would love to work with, like respect their work. But like me and Sam have a special connection

of like making records that nobody else understands. And so I just had to like, you just got to be unafraid to go with your gut that's it and there's no wrong answer because it's art right like you could have had

five different guys mix it but like you gotta believe that you gotta believe what you're doing is special you know and if something's that special to you like I really believe like would you just have somebody

that's never heard your band like come in at the last second to mix it like is that special or is it special to have the guy that like you recorded your demo pagan rhythm rhythms, everything, that's like, that's your fucking boy that's got to spend a month mixing it

because it's important and he knows how special it is for you to get this record out. Yeah. Like, to me, even if we would have fucked it up, like that experience in some ways means more than having like a named guy in the metal scene. You know what I mean? So I don't know, man. It's like no one can do it for you. You just got to know when to take somebody's good idea and when to say,

I got it, man. Like, just trust me. If I fuck it up, I'll own it, but I got this. Yeah, it's such a struggle, like, when, you know, like, the word ego comes to mind. You know, is it like, is it going with their gut? Is it ego? Is it your real vision? And is the ego off when you really stick to like your guns?

Well, that's the thing where you fuck it up. like if the record sounds really bad and like you don't hit it out of the park but you're the one that's saying no no I got it I got it I'm right then it's probably ego and you're probably an asshole you know you probably should have listened you probably should have listened to somebody

but yeah it's a fine line like it's a fine line dude yeah and you got to roll the dice too because it's so easy to mess up records especially mixing and engineering like everybody that's ever made a record knows like it's always about to just go off the cliff Yeah. So damn, are we about to break up right now?

It's always, it's always going. Yeah. And I just think that I'm in a lucky position where I have a really close friend with a great studio that like we're trying to capture the same thing. And like this third record, like we both have an even better idea

of where we're going with it. So I think the leap from pagan rhythms to Death Western to the new one, like when we're done, like people will see like it's going to be a sonic like thing you know what i mean which i think is cool like not a lot of bands get to do that where you have like multiple records with the same team everybody 100% like firing on all cylinders trying to like crush it like that's also a blessed place to be you know yeah it sounds like i just you know you have like this deep connection like

You found someone that just shares the vision and trying to get what you have in your mind or what you're hearing out. Okay, let's try and get this out into the speakers. Yeah, man. And the other thing I really like about Sam is we do not like the same music. Like he loves new metal. Like he's younger than me, so he's like a big new metal guy.

But he loves fucking pop music and like all kinds of shit that I don't listen to. Wow. So when he gets excited about like an arrangement or like some of the production choices and he's like really geeking out over it, sometimes I don't even know what he's talking about. Like I can't even hear it. Like he's one of those guys that, you know, can like hear and be like, oh, the overheads, the clarity and there's like transient detail here. And I can't tell the difference. He's like A, B, in with like some plug in on it.

I'm like, dog. Like, cool. I'm glad you're stoked because I literally can't tell the difference of what the fuck you're talking about. about. But he's like got the weird, he's got the geek thing, you know, which is, I don't have that. I can't listen to something and be like, oh, you need to knock out some 4K here, dog. Go ahead and notch the EQ. Like, I'm not that guy, so I have to like, I don't know. You got to have a team, man, especially like if you know you're not great at something, you know. So there's trust there. There's trust involved from your side.

Yeah, and that's a big thing, man. You just got to say, I can't hear what he's talking about, but I believe he knows what he's talking about. So do it, man. That's such a fucking hard balance, dude. Oh, my goodness, too, yeah. Because that could bomb, too, you know? That's the other thing.

Yeah, we definitely had that, yeah. But we also, we're real adamant about Thomas Pridgin played drums on the record. and he's incredible drummer, but I didn't want to have like a bunch of samples on the snare or like kicks that weren't ours. So like we did sample everything, but it's him on the fucking snares we use,

tune different, whatever. But like we just blended all of our samples. And so I've had a lot of people tell me like, oh yeah, your drums are programmed. And like just say shit like that. And I'm like, no, they're not. Shut up. This is all like literally crazy performances captured.

It's just like, you know the way you do it man isn't that like i'm not saying he like he started doing this but isn't that like what colin does like it basically like they like the performance is there it is miced up and then you do like the like the sound sound replacing so you get the sound but you get the feel yeah yeah and it's like there's different um i'm big into like i just geek out over production of records like and I looked at a lot of like Tom Petty stuff that he did with Jeff Lynn where um like that production style where instead of recording the entire drummer playing the whole kit it's like other people do it too like Eric Valentine did it on the um Queens of Stone Age record the one

that Dave Grohl played on where it's like don't play the fucking no hands don't play the symbols and so they like track him differently so Dave Grohl doesn't know the songs and he's like playing by feel so that when they go back and try and like comp the takes together it's almost impossible so like all those like little things i geek out over records and i'm like how the fuck did they get these drums like this yeah why aren't the overheads and the symbols washy and it's like oh they recorded them separate that's why there's no like tom bleed or snare or kick it's like it's only the high hat being played and then they got to match it up you know but it's not to the grid so like all those little things is what me and Sam

like connect. We don't listen to the same type of music but we listen to the same productions and like even if it's a band he doesn't like I'll send him in shit and be like this production right here and then we just break it down like how the fuck did they do it? Google every person that worked

on the record like just geek shit man that's that explains a lot and you'll be surprised I've I can't realize this not a lot of people do the Googling and finding names, names, and what studio and we're at and what and what year. To us, it's like, well, yeah, you were just doing it.

You were just doing it, but a lot of people don't do that. Yeah, and I love that stuff. Like, when I hear a band I like or a record I like, like, once the initial thing where I just listened to it and I'm just like, wow, this is great, then I'm like, how'd they do it? Who wrote all the songs? Who produced it? Who engineered it? What studio did they use?

Who mastered it? Exactly. Then I'm like, well, who mixed it? who mastered it. So it's like this whole thing. It's like I look at records more like, how do you make a movie where nobody talks shit on a director for bringing in a great cinematographer,

even though that guy totally shapes the tone, color, like visual of the film, you know? But like sometimes with music, people are like, oh, you write your song, but you bring in a producer that I don't look at it that way. I'm like, the end result is important. And if you have to get like specialized people to do it, Like, I don't want to know, like, the recipe of the meal. I just want the meal to be banging.

So, like... That's a way to put it. Yeah, I take that approach, too. Like, if we've got to do some tedious shit, like, quad-tracking guitars, even though I fucking hate it, because you have to just, you know, it takes the fun out of it. But how else are you going to get it that clean to where the end result is in the ballpark of what I want, you know?

Yeah. Which? So you go in... into songs or a record or concept where you have the vision first it seems yeah when we have the vision first and what you have in your head first and then you should try to execute yeah like for this new record like i know what it like it's it's going to sound weird but like i know it's going to be a darker like it's a trilogy right so it's like star wars it's like this is going to be like the dark cliffhanger it's going to be a much darker record but i also want to have like i want to start

it with some like horror movie like real gothic things rip into a couple fast thrash songs that i want to do like some sort of like bluegrassy like country stuff that's going to be kind of left field but like i'm just mapping out the record so it's like side a okay i've got side a done now and everything has to be vinyl like for me like when i think about a record because i came up in that era where it's like you got a side a and a side b so side b when you flip it over it has to to fucking punch you in the mouth. It has to be good. But it also, side B, for like a metal band,

has to be as good as side A. You can't, like, have any filler. Wow, I never thought about it that way. Yeah, so I don't know. I'm kind of a, I guess I'm a freak. But, like, I'm gonna map out the whole record. And then it's like, so what songs are actually in here? I'm like, I need three or four, like,

fast, heavy thrash songs. And I've got two weird, like, kind of countryish rockability things I want to do. and then I've got an outro and an intro. It can't be over like 35 minutes because that shit's fucking too long. Nobody can listen to a record longer than that. So it's like, carve all that out. And then on the other hand,

I've got like all these riffs where I'm just like looping drums, riffing, riffing, riffing, and I'm like, now take those, carve those up. Where do they fit? And I can't do that if I got to explain every step to like a homie and be like, here's this song, I'm going to do this.

And then they have their idea. Like, I have too many. too many goals I have to set for like each song and like for the records so it's like it's got to be like just in the trenches like doing the work you're right man like you know I'm definitely a big guy like I always tell people you know you got to jamming a room together and a full band you know what like meeting you know people like used to like it's not for everybody so maybe just work better alone and like I got a day job it's like if I only did music where like we could just hang out and play.

Like it would be badass to like just play music with people all the time just for like to get that other like inspiration like that weird stuff where the drummer hits like a groove you would never think of. But like also got to be realistic. Like I work for a living so like ain't got time. Ain't got time. Ain't got the money. Like so I got to do a do it efficiently.

And time too. Yeah. When it says to you which you could just do so much more. and you're going to worry about any bullshit around you. You're going to worry about this person. This person going to wake up at noon. He's like, wait. Let's fucking.

And like, start going. I can be really hard on myself. I'm way harder on myself than I would be to you. Like if you showed me a cool riff, like, I'm a bit of a people pleaser. So I'd be like, it's cool, man. But like what I really want to say is, yeah, not good enough. Your riff fucking sucks. Yeah, it's like, it could be there.

If I were you, I would spend another like, I would 10 more hours and then come back. But like, I'm not going to tell somebody that because I'm always way harder on myself, but like working solo, it's like, I hear it and I'm like, it's not there. Fucking delete it, like, next, which it's a lot easier for me to like self-critique than it would be to like build that trust and not hurt somebody's feelings or like just cause a giant, you know, shit show, you know what I mean? Man, it sounds, you know, you're just putting hours in, hours. Yeah, man. There's no much work cut. But, you know, I love doing it. So it's like, that's the other thing that I think separates the men from the boys.

Like, are you inspired? Like, do you love what you're doing? Because that's going to come through. Like, you can't fake that, you know? True. And you have a trilogy of videos for Death Western. Like, you also come up with the concept of the videos as well. So the videos, a lot of that visually, the story stuff is a old,

friend of mine from high school that has been doing film stuff the whole time, like, as a career. So, like, all these sick-ass videos, they kind of fit into the world, but this is all my buddy Todd, like, and all his friends that work, like, on a super low budget. And I tell them, like, the basic premise. And then he's just like, what can we do? Can we burn down a church? We really wanted to burn down a church, but, like, we couldn't get the permits to, like... Couldn't even want a permits. Yeah, because it's a whole thing. And so, like, all the things that you see in these videos are like, we have really big, crazy ideas.

And it's like, how do we do it? And then it's just, same thing with Sam. It's like, this is one of my, like, super close friends. It loves my band, loves the vision and, like, gives a shit. So it's like our videos are going to look like they're going to look like we spent 10 times more. They look incredible, do you? Yeah, man. I like film stuff, too.

So it's like, I don't want to be in a band. that does a video where it's for guys in a dark room playing in a warehouse. Like, to me, I'd rather... Curious up, probably. Yeah, like, that's not what I'm here for. Like, I want to do a video where it's like, people watch and they're like, what is this shit? Like, is this a movie?

So you got, so first you start with the premise and obviously you take it to the pros. And hey, let's try this and then try to execute. And then a bunch of our friends, like, everybody in these videos is just like, like friends of friends that like are super talented that like in Vegas we have a big showbiz like there's a lot of people that work on the strip so like we have people that you know are circus performers like um the actress right there is like a contortionist professionally like and so we knew she was on board so it's like let's make her a demon we'll kill her and then have her come back to life and she does all this crazy she can like bend in half so it's like

I could never come up with that, but when you know you have a world-class contortionist that is one of the best in the world that works at CERC, it's like, there you go. Oh, my goodness, dude. I don't know, man, it's cool, like all that artistic stuff. It's like when you get up for 10 years, putting steel toes on, work in construction,

and then, like, over here, like, the creative part, you just can't express it because you don't have an outlet. When you get the chance to do it, like fucking go hard you know do it like it's your band like everybody's got a guitar in a basement like but this is my shit so it's like I want to do stuff that I'm inspired like

I want my video to be like you know crazy well that's that's accomplished yeah man it's so important how everything needs to line up like the music needs to be like the vision and the videos and the artwork you got it dude and you fucking did it that's the thing that's like

when you look back at it like being prolific is like one thing but if the stuff is good if you never relent where you're like every piece has to be good then you can like truly be proud of your stuff you know you don't have any any of that cringy shit where you're just like uh we phoned it in and then excuses no money no time whatever but when you went in deep you know deep like when you phone it in and then you make excuses later you do and that's a stuff like i learned that the hard way and like one part of me is like never again like shit's got to be never again never like it's not worth it i'd rather not do it than to phone it in you know well stew uh spray world's badass thank you

you know uh yeah we should end it on on a high note you know i uh i appreciate you make in the drive down from my bagas you got you got a sick out show tonight yeah playing with a death core band my boys have sulfur baby do you guys can play any show you want this let's go the flyer Holy moly, dude. You guys could play with Ignatstead Front and then play the Affliction Studio in

Steel Beach. Yeah, why not, man? That's the dream, dude. Not many bands can do that. It's fucking badass. Like I said, it's a blessed place to be, man. Build your band and your project how you want.

Like, don't get put in a box. Fuck, no. Well, still, where can people find you, the band? Where do people go? Shit. Um, Instagram basically. I don't, uh, our guitar players doing it for me. So Spirit World Profit and Instagram and then, uh, our web store is down for merch, but, um, we're about to open it back up

with somebody doing fulfillment. So SpiritWorldprofit.com will have. Cool. All the merch. Give it a week or two. I don't know when this comes out, but yeah, man. Then we'll be on the road. Like, the road, dude. That's it. Come out to a show, you know. All right, dude, thank you for, for a time. Can we see the show tonight? I'm stoked. Yeah, man. Stoke, man. All right, everyone, that's it. Later.