Garza Podcast - 98 - OTEP: The Untold Story, Ozzfest Early Days & Blood Pigs

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

Garza sits down in-person with Otep Shamaya. Vocalist & founder of OTEP. Her new album THE GOD SLAYER is out now! https://www.linktr.ee/otepofficial SPONSORS: Click this link to purchase from Sweetwater & help support the podcast: imp.i114863.net/rnrmVB CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Smoking & Drinking Is Unnecessary For the Creative Process 04:40 - No Rules While Creating Otep Songs 08:24 - Performing on HBO’s Def Poetry 16:02 - Acting & Performing 17:28 - Winding Down From an Intense Performance 18:18 - Working Out, Grieving & Losing Gains 21:47 - Texas Roots & Animal Farms 29:40 - The Colosseum in Rome 31:46 - How Otep Got a Record Deal Without a Demo, Playing Ozzfest 38:42 - Learning How to Be a Frontwoman on Tour 43:03 - Working with Terry Date in Seattle 47:09 - “Jonestown Tea” & Writing Dark Songs 51:12 - Trusting Your Collaborators 54:06 - “Blood Pigs” Inspired by Lord of the Flies 59:21 - Phil Anselmo Blown Away by Otep’s Vocals 1:02:28 - Women Doing Heavy Vocals 1:05:22 - Being a Pioneer For Women Metal Vocalists 1:08:07 - Being a Natural Leader 1:10:18 - Being Outspoken About Social Issues & Getting Blacklisted 1:20:30 - Facing Backlash for Coming Out as Lesbian 1:28:40 - Dealing with Online Critics & Trolls 1:30:58 - House of Secrets Criticism 1:32:05 - Relationship With the Band, Creative Differences & Joey Jordison 1:35:32 - Writing Songs About Predators & Bullies 1:40:12 - Being Authentic On & Off Stage, Standing Up for Yourself 1:42:24 - The Future of Metal 1:45:29 - New Covers Album, The God Slayer & Reasons Behind Song Choices

It was my first Ozfest, my first full Ozfest. Phil and Selma walked up to me. How you doing, Phil? He's like, what kind of vocal process you use on stage? And I said, I don't. I use a beta 58A, man. And he said, no, you don't. What kind of vocal processor do you use?

And I said, I'm about to play. Come watch. And so he came, he watched from side stage. After the show is over, he goes, okay, fine. You don't use the vocal process. Whenever I need music gear, I always go to sweetwater.com. It bits mics, headphones, or studio and recording gear, sweet water has you covered. Next time you need any music gear, support the podcast by using the link in the description and comment section below.

Party, you don't smoke, you don't drink. I smoke weed on occasion, but... Occasion? No, not really. I always had found that it... For me, I just... I never could process it really very well. I just, I wasn't very good at it.

So, like, I literally was known amongst my friends as, like, the lightweight champion of the world. Two drinks, man, I'm ready to go home, you know. Oh, that's sick. Yeah. But I'm also drinking, like, you know, whiskey, you know, on the rocks, you know, straight. So not like that. But they're doing shots and they're drinking all kinds of stuff.

And I'm just, I can't keep up with you guys. I'm sorry. Yeah. And, but also I'd wake up the next morning and I know I want to go to the gym or I want to go hiking and I'm just like destroyed just destroyed after your after your two Scottish whiskeys yeah yeah so I I don't really I don't really drink I don't really do any that and you know even like studio stuff like I've had people come in it's like oh I need a beer and I'm like no you don't you can drink that that later you know after yeah because to me it's like you know if if you have to

drink to and this is just my opinion it doesn't mean that it's right but it's just my opinion but and my experience with certain people. If they've got to use drugs and alcohol to write music or create art, then that's what's creating the art, you know. To me, like we should be like Buddhist monks or something. Like we should always be, you know, working on our craft so that it's just there. We don't need something to help break down the barriers or find that well of inspiration. It should come from us, not from liquor or whatever, you know, weed, whatever.

Yeah, that's always like the mystery when, I look back or I think when any of us look back on like a record, like, okay, you hear the stories and, okay, but I'm always curious. Okay, what was the order? Right? Okay, are they, you know, is Otep writing and is her band writing sober? And then you do the studio and then when, and then when you're done there, then, okay, we'll go out and now we're raging this. And then the stories happen. So I'm always curious when, when that order and what that order is. It just depends really I mean I like to be around

like creatives you know I like to be around creative people who challenge me challenge and hopefully I challenge them so if they bring in a riff or a bead or you know something like that then we can start working on that but I don't know if they

if they wrote it while they were drinking or smoking then they might have done it at home but they didn't do in front of me yeah interesting yeah so really it's kind of there's no rulebook really No, not really. I mean, I'll usually have some idea about what I, you know, I have a, I think, slight hypographia, which means I write all the time, like on everything. I've got bags and bags and bags of just little pieces of paper, cocktail napkins, whatever I can find I just write on sometimes when it comes to me. And so I'll bring all to it in. And they call, what I think they're calling me, producers call me analog now, because I write things down. I don't just put it in my phone. I couldn't write a song. I'm just, I couldn't write a song. I'm just, I couldn't write a song. I'm my phone. I don't know how. Just different era. I like the tactile experience, you know, of writing lyrics and ideas down. But I'll bring things in and I'll, I'll usually set all my

books out in a circle on the floor. And then if they start playing something, I'll be like, oh, I got something for that. And usually if we're that, if we have that kind of spiritual intercourse between us, that kind of connection, that energy exchange, then we're already on that, on a same page. So they might bring something in that, that already sounds like something that I had been thinking about because we already are on like the we already inhabit the same planet of creativity you know okay cool yeah it seems like your band started like with no rules at all like so so so your band started with no musical direction at all uh not well no not really i mean we we we well we had several ideas of what we thought we were going to be okay um but there was the only rule was

there are no rules so you know i i'm I mean, I'm from New Metal, right? The New Metal World. And I carry that moniker with pride because we, you know, whoever came up with that, like whoever came up with grunge, it wasn't the musicians, it wasn't the bands. It was some, you know, writer, you know, music writer or something. Same thing with New Metal, you know. They came up with those labels.

And so for me, like I first met my drummer, Moke, Mark Bistini. He's from Boston, so he has a really thick Boston accent. So Mark becomes Moke. Mock. Okay. So he had, he's one of the best drummers and probably at least known, but really had done so much for the music industry. I mean, he could play anything. The cat used to like, go in studios with Dre and lay down hip-hop beats, just all day.

Just sit there and just lay down beats, and Dre would take what he wanted and used him in songs. And so, but he also could play metal and he could play rock and he could play punk. I mean, he just, so when I met him, he was really instrumental in like our, the bonding of like what we were doing. Because at the time, when I first started the band, I was like, I mean, I was into poetry, you know, and spoken word and stuff like that. And I liked Rage Against the Machine and I like Slipknot and I like corn and deaf tones. And so, and East Coast Underground Hip Hop and like how to, and the beat poets. So Kerouac and Ginzburg and how do you bring all those people together? And that's what it was instrumental with Moak and him bringing in the bass player,

Jay McGuire, and then bringing in the guitar player Rob Patterson. And again, the bass player was Berkeley schooled and he's jazz bass, but he was also into Mushuga and like weird time signatures. And so it was really this wonderful blend of everything that we could do. And the first time that I ever unleashed a roar, the whole band stopped playing. Like, they just stopped. And so, and they were just like, what was that?

It was just an emotional response to where the music was building. It was just a crescendo, and it just happened. And so they were like, well, do it again, you know, if you can. I can. So we did it again, and I did it again. And then that kind of, like, set us on the path of, like, what we were going to do. you know we're gonna sure okay we'll we'll have like trick on the first album a speed metal riff

with uh blast beats and me rapping over it and screaming trick in the you know roaring trick in that which stands for the revolution is coming um over the over the song and so we did that and it worked out great i think and and and i've i've never i've always entered with this you know my ninth album now, the godslayer just came out and everything that I do is from that perspective. Like I just want to make music. I don't care about genre. That's a limitation. That's a border, a continent that someone else created.

I just create music, you know. Did you have any experience with singing prior to that? No. That day, nothing. No, I had experience in oration, speaking, like spoken poetry, spoken word pieces, things like that. But no, I didn't sing in the choir. I wasn't in any other bands before this or anything. It just happens.

Did you do the spoken word poetry on stage before that? In little tiny, like, you know, clubs and stuff like that. But no, you know, nothing, nothing of substance. really. The first time I ever did anything big with spoken word was when I was on death poetry on HBO. And that was my first time ever. And at that time, like, spoken poetry was a big thing. And like comedians do, they do like the circuits. And so I had one spoken word artist come up to me and he said, so what, you know, I've never seen you on the circuit before. What clubs have you played? And I said, I'm a musician. This is my first one. He goes, so you're doing, your first one is.

HBO, Deaf Poetry, so you just play the Super Bowl without ever playing a game before. And I said, well, I do this on stage in my shows. So, I guess. And they were just, they did a prayer circle, which, you know, I don't really care about. But they didn't invite me, which was like, okay, I see, you guys are tribalistic. All right. So I had this capital, I was on Capitol Records at the time, and they had sent down somebody from publicity, and the guy saw it, and he got really offended.

So he said, come here. Oh, Tim, come here, come here. He's like, play along. And he grabs my hands and he's like, old dark lord Satan, we pray to, you know, and then everybody in the room was like, oh, my God, Jesus, Satanist. You know, just to scare him and, you know, yeah, it was pretty cool. I was like, a label guy's doing this? Well, all right.

But prior to that, no, I'd been on stages before. I spoke at, like, you know, rallies and did spoken word stuff and did ciphers, like with hip-hop and, you know, battle ciphers, stuff like. that little things. Because that is, that just looks terrifying. It's only you. Like there's, there's no wall to hide behind.

Like, you don't, you don't get a band behind you. You don't got nothing. It's, and it is because one, they only give you, I think, two minutes and 33 seconds to, and, but there's no clock.

There's no clock provided. So, um, most deaf was the host and most deaf, if, a lot of people don't know, he's this like legendary hip-hop artist. a legendary lyricist and he's one of my favorite inspirations and he was the host. So I got to stand

in the wings with him and I'm just thinking like, oh God, don't mess up, don't mess up. Most up is here. Most of death is here. Don't mess up. Don't screw up. And, uh, I still do that. Yeah, I know. Me too. Um, but it's a little more intimidating like when you're, you know, the guy's there, right? Right there. So he's standing there and then I walk out. They introduce me. I come out and it's quiet as a church. And the stage is only about eight inches off the ground. So, and the crowd goes around you. So you go way out to the front of stage because you've got people behind you, watching your back, watching your sides, watching your front, people up there. And it's just quiet, right? And then they've got the,

they got the boom cameras that come down and they've got, you know, and somebody's working that, and they've got the other cameras all in your face. And you just, you just got to get your, you just got to get your poem in as quick as possible. And when I started, again, like, there was like a few giggles. To this day, as long as deaf poetry was on air, I was the only rock artist to ever transfer over into that world. I'm very proud of that. But when, yeah, so there's most, that's like me, like, I'm like, slap him most deaf's hand

and he's like trying to whisper something in my ear, but I'm so, like, Like, I'm full of adrenaline at that point. What do you say? He said, that was so real. And then I was like, thanks, man. And I just, like, ran on stage as bad as that good. But, like I said, I walk out. It's quiet.

And it's like, there's a few giggles and stuff in the audience, you know. And they're like, who is this girl, you know, wearing this, you know, skeleton hoodie or whatever? And I come out and I start doing this thing. And it's autobiographical. I mean, it's what I say in that poem actually happened in my family. and everybody was still kind of like, because I started off and I'm doing like this little wrap, you have seven more seconds to the side of your life before my tongue becomes a knife and your brain

gets sliced and everybody's kind of like, what is that? What is that? And then I get to the point where I talk about like, you know, I was born, you know, I was born at seven months. I was born two months premature, three pounds, four ounces. And then I show why is because my protein donor of the biological side tried to abort me, punched my mother three or four times in the stomach while she was seven months pregnant.

So I illustrate that on stage and you can see I'm about to do it and the microphone is here so I hit myself so hard you hear a boom and then it's like gasps in the audience. This is intense. Yeah, welcome to my life. Yeah.

There's gasps in the audience and then there's, I can feel the tension lower. And I finish everything. And everybody's applauding. Most Dev comes out and he's like, that's so real. And he actually, they stop it on this video. They stop it before he finished what he was saying. He was talking to the audience.

Like, that was so real. And he actually had a tear in his eye. And I was surprised because I didn't think. And like Black Thought from the Roots was on that show that night. And he came up to me afterwards as well. And again, he's a lyricist and I'm really fond of. and he came up and he was like, before the show, wouldn't talk to me.

After the show, he's giving me pounds and daff and everything. And so then all the poets were clapping and before they were very standoffish. And it was an amazing experience. That was really one of the highlights of my career. And I did it. It was in New York City. And I had a show that night.

So I went over to do the show. They brought a car. I went over, did the show. Then drove back and did a, did my show. show that night. The show that night. Yeah, the Webster Hall. You must have been just pumped with this adrenaline.

Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, they got it. I was really excited about it. I was really happy. I was really proud of myself because it's really hard to do that. A couple of the other poets who were much more experienced in me ran out of time.

And so you have like the producer, Stan Latham, who's just an amazing human being. I'm so friends with him today. You hear him come over here like the voice of God. like the voice of God. You know, he's like, you ran out of time, cut, you do it again. And she's like the, she's crying and, you know, they're giving her back together. And then she does it again. And, you know, without, you know, they should have put a clock up there, you know,

that's what they should have done. So you know how much time you have left. And so, because they tell you don't stop for applause. So even when I get like a round of applause, I just, you just keep talking because you don't want to get cut off. I don't want to do that whole thing over again. Yeah. You know. Yeah, that's like a one-time thing.

Yeah. You know, I can only imagine what you go through like, what, so what are you thinking about? And are you, because I, because you even like talk about it with your, which is performing with O-TIP, like you kind of re-relive those moments. Yeah, yeah. You have to, I have to. I mean, I'm not an actress. I wish I was. Well, not right now, but because of the strike.

But I wish I was an actress. They, I did act in a couple of things. And man, they get paid a lot of money to do what we do, but not at the same level of intensity that we do, that's for sure. And no disrespect to actors. I'm just saying, y'all got to give some love to musicians, man, and singers. But when I'm on stage, I have to summon all those emotions that either cause me to write the lyrics, whether or not it happened to me or not, or it's just something that I saw or want to share, or if it's something that really happened to me. And those, that's real. And sometimes I think maybe some people

misinterpret that, that I'm, you know, after a show, if I'm still on fire or still full of emotion or sadness or grief or anger or joy triumph you know um you know they're gonna they may get a sense of that you know i've had people say well she was very nice after the show and i'm like do you see what i just did like you know give me five minutes and then i'll catch my breath and i'll be nicer you know um but that's usually pretty rare that people have those kind of comments otherwise people kind of understand what what goes on up there and it's usually a shock to the musicians for sure because are usually just up right you know a lot of them are just used to getting up there and playing and like it's a song and that's it and our shows are not like that they're they're they're more um it's it's

for me it's like living art is what it is you know yeah sometimes uh you need you need to mentally come back yeah and you can just like some people I you see like more all kinds you see like the version of like they could it's like this on and off switch I'm like that's fucking freaky and so me like you need like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a wind down period sometimes it could be all night yeah I'm like you know what I gave it all out there on stage

I'm gonna sit here especially if you're doing multiple shows in a row and you know for vocalists too like I've got to save my throat for the next show and I so you know I can't be very vocal you know I I that's the reason why I usually just I'm either I'm never at the venue

during the day except for sound check I usually go to the gym or I don't talk to anybody or anything you know and then I come back and then I take a nap and then I get ready for the show. Maybe walk my dog. Oh, tip, you're ripped right there.

When did you start going to the gym? Geez, I started, I mean, I've always been an athlete, but I started power lifting when I was, oh, geez, probably 2010, 11, something like that. Yeah, something like that. And I fluctuated up and down. Sometimes I went for mass, so I was balking up.

And that's what that photo was. That was me. I'd bulked up and then I shredded down. So it was good. And then right now I'm in a transitional phase because one, my eldest brother passed away a year and a half ago. And at the same time, my companion animals are like my children. So I had a little five-pound chihuahua who thought she was a Rottweiler. Her name was Chloe Commando.

And she developed heart failure. So at the same time, my brother passed away unexpectedly. And that's the last voice you hear on the new record, the godslayer, if you wait long enough. It's his voicemail that he left me the night before he died. And I didn't want to forget his voice. So that's why. That's what it was. Yeah.

I wanted to, well, I wanted to memorialize him too, because he was always. so he was always so supportive of me and my music but um i've lost a lot of people of family members and in my life and i don't i try to think back like my grandmother died in my birthday when i was 13 i can't remember her her voice and so when john passed my brother john when he passed i didn't want that to happen i wanted to make sure that one everybody heard him and how amazing he was because it's such a supportive voicemail it's so beautiful and that's just that's how he was all the time he was a serial optimist and

but also I didn't want to you know if voicemails get lost you lose your phone or whatever I didn't want that to happen so I wanted to make sure that I never forgot not only the sound of his voice but the intonations how he spoke you know the different ways he talked and what words he emphasized

and things are very unique to him but anyway at the same time after he passed away then my dog got really sick my daughter actually and so I couldn't I was I was just in the house with her and dressed all the time because she had to go to the emergency room in the middle of the night or whatever I had to just throw shoes on race there

I gained like 45 pounds 45 pounds because I wasn't I wasn't leaving I wasn't doing I didn't leave the bed I didn't leave the bedroom hardly so what what were you eating pizza? No no no no no no I was I was just eating whatever I could you know quick quick stuff a lot of protein shakes but also just anything that was quick and easy that I could just eat while I was in bed with her and

just something I could just, you know, so, but, you know, atrophy itself is a big deal if you're not moving around a lot. Totally. And then also just, you know, throwing food down my face to make me feel better because I'm, like, so worried about her. And so now I went through that and I'm trying to build back up all the gains that I lost when I was taking care of her and grieving my brother. So right now, I'm going for, I'm slimming.

my slimming phase and then I'm going to build back up into my power phase. Yeah, work on a foundation. Okay, now we're ready to come back. That's right, yeah. Were you born in Texas? I was in Austin, Texas. Austin, right? When did you make the move and why to L.A.?

Well, my family, I have family in California, in Los Angeles, Long Beach, mostly Long Beach. And I liked it here a lot better than Texas. No disrespect to Texas, but it's just the weather. better for one. But also I just, I found, there was, I was the only artist in my family and at least the only one that was interested in artistic things. So when, but out here, it was different. There was a lot of, like, there was art everywhere. It was just like in the air. So I kept running away and coming back to California. And again, my older brother, John, who passed away, he did the same thing. We borrowed a car and drove out here. We borrowed. We borrowed. We borrowed.

The owner didn't. The owner woke up the next morning, found a note. But we borrowed a car when I was young and he was a teenager. And so we drove out to L.A. And we lived out here for a while. And then my parents came and got me. And then we moved back. Then we moved here. The family moved here. My father is my adopted father. Who's my dad? He was a sheriff in San Bernardino. County for a long time. That's a rough area. It is. He was a good cop, though.

He was a really, really good cop. And so, and I got a lot of law enforcement in my family, too, and they were, like, stationed out in 29 palms and everything. So I just, this was my home, and this is where I belonged. And my family decided to move back to the Austin area, like the whole country, because they wanted land. And we wanted to open an animal sanctuary. So we did.

And so we have a private animal sanctuary. We saved livestock. and dogs, lots of dogs. People have this mistaken idea that if you just leave your dog out in the country, it reverts back to its feral state. But no, they don't. They usually get eaten by coyotes pretty quickly. Really? Oh, yeah.

So my father, I mean, I think we, the most, we had 37 dogs at one time because, and most of them were, we just found on the road. And there's this one spot where people, it's a dumping site for people. people and they just drive out, leave their pets and drive off. Are you serious? Yeah. So my dad, who, uh, he, he, fucked up. Yeah, it's really fucked up. So he gets out, usually he has like two or three nights a week.

He gets on his, uh, little all-terrain golf cart because they've got huge, huge plot of land out there. And he goes to that spot and, uh, you know, drinking a, drinking a beer, goes out, finds a dog, picks one up, calls my mom says I got another one and brings him home. then they do all the stuff that you're supposed to do to make sure that the dog's healthy and that it's not going to fight the other dogs or, you know, and all that. But we also have horses and livestock and donkeys and goats. We had chickens, but they didn't last very long.

Unfortunately, we have too many predators on the land. I hear chickens have a really hard time with, like, coyotes are everywhere, and they're sneaky as flock. Yeah, and I never imagine, like, Texas having that much wildlife. but they do. They've got bobcats, my parents on their land. They've got bobcats, beaver, deer, uh, uh, wild boar, which are, they are very territorial. They, yeah. And also, um, a lot of coyotes. A lot of coyotes. And they're, you know, they're just looking for food. I mean, we moved into their area. That was their hunting ground for centuries. And so, you know,

we bulldozed the land. We moved into their land. So we can't, we can't make, can't get mad at them. They're just doing what, coyotes do. We just have got to make sure we protect them. So we, I think, and that's the thing, like, you know, in, like, the dairy industry stuff, cows are only allowed to live to be two. But we have, we have cows and bulls that are like 19, 20 years old. Yeah. And still, I went to visit my parents and I was on that all-terrain golf cart. And I was wearing, I'm really allergic to like hay fever and pollen and all that stuff. So my dad had just recently mowed the pasture, so I was having like a lot of allergies.

So I wore like a little mask over my face, surgical mask. And the bull saw me sitting next to my mom and he didn't recognize me. Gus, his name's Gus. Big Gustus. And he started chasing us. And I've never seen a big thing move so fast in my life. was like my mom's laughing and I'm like he's almost got and he could have flipped us over I mean he's he's he's strong you know he's super strong and my mom's laughing and laughing and laughing I'm like ma he's

coming I'm like turning around looking videoing him like my he's coming he's close and so she pulls in finally and then she just gets out and she walks over to him and she's like gus no and my mom is like smaller than me right but you know they they all listen to her she's the alpha for sure yeah I think animals could understand us with like what the way like your feet like they're like frequency of your voice and your tone. Oh, sure. You know? And also language.

I mean, they learn, you know, they learn. That's the wild part. Like, you know, you think about companion animals, typical, like dogs, for example. In any country, they learn the human language, whatever it is spoken, you know, they learn commands. They learn those things. And that's just weird. Like, you know, we can't learn. We don't know a dog very well.

I mean, certain things we can tell. But that's one thing that makes, you know, to me, animals so amazing. They can understand our language and be trained by it. Yeah, and they understand other languages. That's why it's so funny when you hear someone else talking to, like, their cat or dog, a different language than yours. Yeah. Because it's interesting, but the animal knows that language.

That's right. That's so bizarre. Yeah, I went to German, I dated this, I dated this, I had a German woman, and we went to visit her, her mom, and they had, they had, they had, they had, a bunch of like three or four dogs and they were all just yelling at them in German and I was like they it's just it was like with that culture shock moment of like hey wait a minute nine what no yeah yeah nine nine is no right yeah you're screaming at your dogs in German sounds so pissed it is it's you know from uh unfortunately World War II has ruined uh you know what how we perceive

German in a lot of ways uh but she was from the black forest so that's near France so it's a little bit more, you know, and that was another thing that was a culture shock too, is I went to, when I went to Germany, I realized that they have accents, like this, like in America, like the South, they have Southern Axis and New York, you know, and then all that stuff. And like, the same thing

happens in, like, we went to Berlin and she was from, you know, closer to France, we went to Berlin, and they all knew that, they called her, in German, they were calling her a country girl. Really? Because of her accent. To me, it sounds the same. I didn't recognize, you know, I sound like German, but

to them. To them. Like those subtle teas are like, oh, that's like, same thing in Rome. Like the Romans, like they,

you know, they had a, I went to Rome and they, I had some friends there and they, uh, some guy from Venice came to visit. It was one of their friends. And they were like,

I don't listen to this guy. He's Venetian, you know. Oh my goodness. What does he know? He's a country boy, you know, because Romans are very territorial about being,

and very proud of being Roman, you know. Yeah. It's Rome. Yeah, it's Rome. It's Rome. It's a beautiful place. Yeah.

I've always wanted to see the Coliseum, but never. Oh, man. Never seen it. Oh, you got to go. It's one. It's amazing because the outside, you can actually still touch the, you know, it's still the big, the big columns that are there that were built. Yeah. Two, three thousand years ago.

It's amazing. Two, three thousand year old building. Yeah. And you can, once you go inside, they've recreated part of the floor where the gladiars used to fight. And then you can go and you can walk through the seats of the Coliseum. And like, and it's basically like a real Coliseum. and some of the senators had their own, like, seats, and it's, it's, like, chiseled in stone, like, Senator so-and-so.

That was his box seat, and it's ground floor right there. Damn, box seat took freaking death. Yeah, dude. And they showed where they used to pop the animals out. Fuck. Yeah, you could actually see the catacombs underneath. It's great. You got to go.

You got to go. Imagine what entertainment was like back then. Bread and circuses, man. That's what they did. They would get the port. When the peasants, the Vox Populi would start to Or the popular I guess

Would start to revolt against whatever they thought was going on They were poor, they were hungry They held games And so, and they would throw bread out free So people would go And then they would watch people fight to the death Yeah Or most of the time it was the death

That's like the gladi in real life Yeah You see them like those scenes that don't bread out To us it's just a movie But like wait they got that from somewhere That's right Yeah, that was real. That was what they did.

That was how they would keep the Roman people appeased. It's called bread and circuses is what it was called. Bread and circuses. Yeah, that's what it was called. Circuses. Literally, people fighting to the debt. Yeah, and they would bring it. They would go to, they would go and get exotic animals that Romans hadn't seen before.

And, you know, they would just slaughter them, you know. They'd put lions in there and hippopotamus and, you know, whatever. They would find they'd put in there. And Nero used to fill it up and they'd have, um, he would fill the Coliseum up and they would have like miniature sea battles. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

Entertainment back then. Yeah, fuck that. Yeah. Okay. O-Tib, how did you do this? Okay. Uh-oh. Four or five shows.

No demo. Signed. Yeah. Well, you know, we were just local band, just, you know, putting in our dues. We were probably rehearsed more than we played live shows. and for me, rehearsals are, you know, we don't go in and, like, screw around, you know, that's not how I want to do it. When I come in, I want to be, I want to train for the show so that when if we play, we're not out of breath after the first song. So rehearsals are dress rehearsals,

you know, I mean, if you're learning the song, that's something different, but once you know the song, once we know the set, and by that time, at that time, we had like five songs, maybe five songs. And so we were just trying to get them down and curate them and make sure that these are the right note choices and this is the right vocal choices. This is the great cadence. This is the right beat. That's the right, you know, accent here, whatever. After our first show, we opened for, and I can't remember the band's name. I'm sorry, but we played and there was another, it was an A&R there to see the headliner. And we played. And so they got there early. And I noticed them because there was only probably 50 people in the venue.

And I noticed them and they were on their BlackBerry. And I was like, okay, this is not a, you know, a crowd member. Who is this guy? Yeah, a cell phone. Yeah, right? He was on a BlackBerry, right? So then, and then the next show we did, there was three guys on BlackBerrys. And then.

So you know we have BlackBarrays in her hand. That's right, yeah. And then they started talking to the guy that was allegedly, you know, like, our manager at the time and, you know, just like, okay, what are they got? Who are they? Just asking questions. So we started getting even more, like, we were getting, like, I was like, this is serious, this is serious. And he said, you know, Los Angeles is kind of jaded. The crowds are. And because, you know, it's the, everybody comes here to get discovered. A little bit jaded, yeah. Yeah. So we were one of the few bands at that time that was actually getting the crowd to move and to

to do stuff as an opener as a local band. And I remember we played the Roxy and we've opened for Cold, a band called Cold. I don't know if they're still around or not. But I went backstage and I sat down and it was a great show. We hit, I hit this like guttural that was so loud. It made the ceiling collapse and part of the ceiling collapse, one of these little ceiling tiles that the Roxy came down. And I went back into the dressing room.

and somebody comes in and they said, hey, Sharon wants to talk to you. And I was like, you know, and it's one of those moments right after a show. I'm wiped. And I was like, I don't know any Sharon. And they're like, I don't want to talk right now, you know, get her information, I'll talk later, you know. And they're like, no, Sharon Osborne. And I was like, I don't know a Sharon Osbourne. And they're like, Ozzy, Osbourne, I didn't, I didn't, dude, I had no idea.

I had no idea. I had no idea anybody was paying attention to us like that, you know. So like Sharon Osbourne, Ozzy Osbourne. You know that? And I was like, oh, yeah, hold on a second. So I started cleaning up and I go out there. And she's like, O-Tab, darling, you're playing Oz Fest this year. And I said, great.

And I looked at like the guy that was standing next to me with us, you know, like a, I was like, I was like, we're not signed. And she heard me. And she's like, don't worry about it. It doesn't matter. You're doing it. So our first OzFest, we had no demo, we had no record. We were just there. Eighth, ninth show, Osbest.

Yeah, we were opening. Now, by that time we had, by the time we actually did OzFest, we played one more show, and we did the Viper Room. And the A&R for Capital Records, his name is Ron Lafitte, was coming up the stairs. And he heard me. And he said, I'm signing whoever that is. And so we were getting bidding wars from different labels. And I was like nervous because I'm like, we only have five.

Like we told everybody we had 11 songs. We lied. I'm like, we only have five songs, y'all. And they're like, shh, I'm saying anything. They ain't be quiet. Stop it. You're going to ruin it. So, but by that time, we started talking to them.

And when we hit, our first Oz Fest was in Illinois, and we were second stage opening for Mudvane right after LD50 come out. And Illinois is their home state. So we went from playing, I think, the most we ever played at that point in Los Angeles on the Sunset Strip was maybe 100 people, maybe. Maybe 100 people. Walk out and there's 25,000 people in front of us waiting for Mudvane. They don't, they're chanting mudvane. My guitar player at the time, because my original guitar player had, he had some personal stuff he had to take care of.

So we got to fill in and to play with us for the festival. So, wait, was that his first show? It was the second show. But he came to us with like, I've played for this guy and I know this guy and this guy. So, you know, he kind of brought this, like, resume. But as soon as we got there, when he peeked around the corner and saw all those people, he got sick. And he would come out of the bathroom. And they're like five minutes, five minutes, five minutes, O-TEP, five minutes.

And I'm just like, dude, close your eyes, pretend it's 50 people. We have to go on. And we go on. And again, it's a similar experience to the HBO because it was like a few laughs, a few giggles. Who's, you know, who's this little, because I was, I wasn't a power lifter then. I was, I was a little, I was pretty chubby. So I walk out there and I'm like, I had, you know, pigtails and I had like a, like a, this like head rap on and Dickie's pants, you know, the old school, you know, new metal stuff

and came out and people were kind of giggling and then as soon as we hit, we played, I think, trick first. And as soon as I hit that first roar, that's the pit just went. Damn. And it was on after that. I mean, it was on. And then, you know, so it wasn't so much anything that I did other than just playing music and taking it serious and, you know, making sure that every show counted. because that's what I wanted. I never expected to get signed.

I didn't know anything about music. Didn't know anything about the music industry. I just wanted to make music. I just wanted to play music. And it just happened so fast. And I had to learn really quickly. The ends and out, it's the good and bad. That's very quick.

I'm not sure people are really aware how quickly you had to adjust. Yeah, yeah. And also, I was the only female on the whole tour as far as like a player. I mean, there was like people behind the scenes. Sharon was running stuff. But I was the only female front person, and that was also a big weight to carry.

A lot of people, I got asked like, oh, I don't know, a million times. So what's it like being a woman in a middle band? And I'm like, well, what's it like being a woman in anything? Or being a minority in anything? Like, ask somebody, it's the same answer. It was tough. But at the same time, being on OzFest allowed me to learn really quickly. Like I studied other bands.

I studied what they did. I remember the first time we toured with Slipknot. And, you know, there's nine of them. And I brought my guys and we're a four piece. And I said, you see what all nine of those guys are doing? We can never be that. But we're going to do our best job to be as close to that as possible. I mean, look at what they're doing up there.

Yeah, what was your main lesson? Because when you're trying to learn from different bands, what are like a couple of takeaways? Not to insult the audience. you know that was a big one because there were a lot of bands were like what do the what's wrong with you guys why don't you are hyped up and instead you know it's to tell them how amazing they are and you know but also the bands that I saw when they were on stage it was it was their moment they occupied that moment they owned that stage it was theirs and

they played as a unit instead of just being like a guitar player or a single or a bass player drummer, they played as a unit. And that's what I learned. I mean, we were trying to do that anyway, but it just sort of, you know, you can only tell people something so many times before they actually see it themselves, and then you can go, see?

That's what we got to try to do, guys. And so I think I learned about that, and also I just learned a lot about live performance because I hadn't had much experience in that. So that was a big one for me, too, watching a bunch of, like, you know, people that I admired up there just, murdering it.

Murdering it. I want to do the same thing, yeah. Especially with the era, you're talking 2001, like the era of bands going and this ape shit. Yeah, yeah, 2001. 2002 was, we only played about, I think we only played

maybe three weeks of the first tour because we had to get back and start writing our first record. When we played 2002 OzFest, it was insane. It was insane. We had people chanting our name and we were in the rotation,

so we would start at 9 o'clock in the morning, you know, and then we'd wait. You know, we'd cut our songs go because they'd open the doors, and we'd already set up and waiting, and we're just seeing people running across the field to get to the stage. But it caused a little bit of a problem with some of the bands because they were chanting our name all day long in between bands and stuff, so some of the bands got a little, got caught up in their feelings. Ah, band beef.

Yeah, and I was like, what do you want me to do? actually a manager from A band, I won't say who it is, but A band reached out to my manager and said, you got to tell her to tone it down. No. Yeah. She's making everybody look bad. And I'm just like, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.

He's like, well, but, you know, you got, this is an industry of relationships. And I said, but I don't want that kind of relationship. I'm going to, if they want to do something, then up their game. Don't ask me to turn mine down. That's ridiculous. Why would I do that? It's like the one thing you're not supposed to do. Yeah.

I was, I was, I heard my... Don't do that. Like that, that was like, that was hurt my feelings a little bit, you know? I was like, you're asking me to turn it down because they can't step it up or they don't want to. Yeah. That's so fucked up. Yeah. And we want to see the bands be like as crazy as fucking possible.

Yeah. But, yeah, you fucking, you were insane. I watched the old videos. I'm like, dang, what that? Just the air and then, like, you're talking about. So you only, so you play a few in 2001. The first record's not out yet. And then October at that year,

you go in with, with Terry Day for like six weeks up in Seattle, right? Yeah. How did you guys get hooked up with Terry Day? He, I think the label had reached out to him and said, hey, you know, here's a, here's, I don't know how he heard our music or, or what, but he did. And he was interested in working with us.

So he came down to L.A., watched a rehearsal to kind of really give it like a thumbs up or thumbs down, really. And so he came down. So, yeah, man. And he walked in. And Terry Date was like the, I mean, he's still amazing, but he was the guy. He was the guy. Him and Ross Robinson. Like, they were the guys back then, you know.

And we went up to Seattle. And that was also life-changing for me in a lot of ways because one, Hugh Tendrick, fan, huge Nirvana fan. So I'm in Seattle. We're recording in the studio that's owned by Pearl Jam's drummer. The deaf tones had just recorded in there. And so, yeah, and I'm a huge Chino fan. So I was like, and Stefan fan. Like, I just, you know, I love, I love all of it. But I was like, I asked Terry, I said, can you set me up the same way that Chino does his vocals? He's like, sure. Great question. Yeah.

Because I wanted to feel that. So he put up, he gave me, there was a sofa and a rug and he. A sofa? Yeah. I guess, at least what Terry said, I mean, I can't, all I know is what Terry said, but Chino was recording, sitting down vocals. I think he moved around, there was an upstairs area, so he moved on the, he moved on the stairs. he would sing inside the inside like they put a baffle up and then he would just sit there and he had like a little port wine and so he would like drink it and there's a trash can so he would like gargle with it between takes and spit it out and so i never had port wine port wine what the hell is that it's like a dessert wine it's really thick and really strong it's almost it's it's good but it's like it's almost like it's strong and it's uh it's like a liqueur almost and it's uh it's like a liqueur almost and it's it's like a liqueur almost

And so I would do that, but man, it was almost, at first it felt like drinking robitussin or cough medicine or something like that. So are you drinking it or are you running out? Just gargling, just gargling with it. Just do. Yeah. Gargling port wine. Spitting it in a trash can, yeah, between takes. So if you're at, so this is October 2001. They just recorded White Pony then. Yeah, I guess so, yeah. That's some good energy right there.

Oh, man, it felt great. It was so amazing to be in there. It really was. And then we, then, you know, we did, and there was just so much history in that room. And it was a lot of fun because we actually could, we lived up in Seattle. We had, we had, like, what do you call it? They had given us, the label got us like these little corporate apartments. And we just traveled to the studio every day. We spent 12 hours a day, six days a week in there. And we went from, we could, you know, we could also write more while we were in there.

So if we wanted to develop the songs a little bit, we had that opportunity before we got down to recording. And this is when Pro Tools was still like in its infancy, yeah. And so everything was recorded to tape. And so that's why a lot of people listen. Yeah, and I did that for a long time. I still would record to tape and then they would digitize it because it's just a warmth to it that you just can't get from digital.

They've come close now with like plugins and things. But I did that up until, I think, oh. maybe the seventh album. And, um, uh, but yeah, we, we recorded there. And I was in a really, you know, it was a, October and Seattle's like a permanent ceiling of cloud. There's no sun. No sun. And so that really helped, I think, with the, the character of the album, the overall attitude and feeling, because I was already in kind of a dark place, you know.

Um, this was me for the first time opening up my private journals, my private poetry, things that I only wrote from myself, songs that I only, you know, things that I only wrote for me. And then here I am, like, everyone's going to hear this. The producer's going to hear it. And, uh, like songs like Jonestown T. Um, which deals with, yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. And, uh, again, a little lot of biographical. And also, uh, we played a song live. And, um, I would improv a lot. And so the song, I think itself is about 11 minutes, nine, nine minutes, and 11 minutes on the album,

and then live we played it. Sometimes we'd go like 15, 15 to 16 minutes on the song. Yeah, did you already have that song? So you probably already had it written, obviously, but then you mentioned a point where like you actually were jamming it in front of people and then you decided to improv

and then actually what that's what actually became the song. Wait, we'd probably do something with this. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of how it happened. And the band was a little bit, They didn't really, they were nervous about it because they're like, wow, this is, you know, they were hugging me after every, every time we finish this, finish the song. What they do when they first heard that? They were very uncomfortable and they were very, they didn't know what I was doing. So, and they also didn't know like what, yeah, they had no clue.

And, and, yeah, man, it was, because I went, I went, you know, to some really dark places with that. And when I recorded it with Terry, I asked him, I said, so, because when I first sat down with the band and they were like, so musically, how do you want us to approach this song? You know, we know what it's about. We've heard it, you know, like what you're saying. And I love the doors. And so I said, listen to the end by the doors. And that's where we'll start. And if you ever seen Apocalypse now, that's like the first song that is played as they're dropping Agent Orange all over the canopy there in Cambodia.

But I just told them to approach it from that, you know, because I can still listen to The End by the Doors. And those first notes that Robbie Krieger plays on guitar is just so they're transformational. I find myself losing myself. And I've been listening to that song since I was a kid. you know so that's how we approached it and then when I recorded it with Terry they said hey he just left he lit a candle and he put me in the in the control booth and he left and he said just do your thing and I did and then after I was done uh they came in everybody came in and I left and they sat there and when I after it was over I walked back in and they were all looking down and they just all

hugged me and said we're proud of you and they walked out so that was cool So they were probably in the control room listening to you just kind of freak out. Yeah, and just and tell a story, you know, I mean, tell a really dark, dark story. And, you know, and then, you know, the songs that what I like to do, I mean, even songs like My Confession, which we still play live today, the idea is that I used to read a lot of Jean-Paul Sartre and the existentialist. believe, you know, you embrace the void. You see that there's hideousness in this existence, but you don't turn away from it. You try to bring beauty to it. You try to bring awareness to it. You try to fill that void. And so that's the approach that I had. So when you get to these really, really dark songs that I write about, my confession, which is, you know, it's a lot about

someone who's contemplating suicide, contemplating, you know, their place in the world. if oblivion is better than existing. But then it turns around at the end of the song. Because throughout the song I'm saying, there's no way out, there's no way out, there's no way out. Then the outro is you've got to push your way out. And that's where it gets all hyped. And that's where you've been to the show

so you see me get everybody jumping and jumping and jumping. And that's when it goes into the outro. And the same thing happens with Jonestown Tea. It's a very, very long, dark song. But the end turns around and is really positive. like, you know, I'm not going to let what happened to me guide my life anymore. And you don't have that power over me anymore. You know, the victimizer doesn't have the power over me.

I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor. And that's kind of what the song was meant to be. It's a great, like, mental switch. Because like your brain automatically wants to go to like the victim mode, but you kind of switched over. Hey, wait, actually, no, I'm not. And if you talk to a lot of people who have, who have had similar situations, you know, Most of them do identify as being a survivor, not as a victim.

They have survived this. And that's what I try to support that because they are. They're survivors, man. You must still have really trusted Terry. I did. I still do. Yeah. I still talk to him every now and then.

He's awesome. That's great. That's one of the, you know, as a recording artist, I mean, that's one of the things that you want most is you want to be in a room with somebody that you can trust. That's going to give you positive and honest feedback and is going to be. going to also be maybe a guide for you a little bit, especially for someone like me who gets lost in myself a lot and lost in my emotions, lost in my writing, I want someone that's kind of, you know, a beacon in that darkness. It's like going to always bring me back and maybe offer, you know, a good solution or a good idea or a good path. And sometimes, you know, maybe not.

Sometimes it's the opposite. Sometimes like, yeah, it's all right, you know. Yeah. Try another song, but not this one. But I always want to be around people that I can be vulnerable with. And that way I can open up and give the fans and the audience and people who listen, supporters and so forth. I can be as honest as I can be, you know, and I think they deserve that. How many songs did you have prepared before you went up to Seattle? Let's see. We had 10.

10. So it wasn't five. No, no, we ended up writing a whole lot more. Once we knew that we were assigned to Capitol Records. You didn't tell Terry Dave, oh, we have five. No, no. In fact, when he came in, we're like, you know, we don't want to waste your time. We're just going to play you our eight best. And he was fine with that. Oh, cool. But, yeah, we ended up writing. We had some general ideas before we went to Seattle, but then we were able to flesh him out more once we got in the studio up there with him. Yeah, what was like the writing process like?

But more so maybe, let's say it for like blood pigs. You know, how did that song really come about? So I'd been writing. I'd read Lord of the Flies again. I like that book a lot. And I know, nerd. Nerd alert. Otep likes books.

But I went to... Lord of the flies, man, yeah. And that's what the pig head stands for because I get a lot of, sometimes a lot of hate mongering from vegans who are like, you're vegan, why do you have a pig out on stage? I'm like, well, first of all, it's fake. And second of all, it's an homage. It's a literary homage to the Lord of the Flies.

Because in the Lord of the Flies, if people aren't familiar with it, basically a plane goes down, all the adults die. The children are left on this island. And, yeah. That's here, right? Yeah. And so one group is kind of becomes. feral and they decide that

they should be in charge and that in order to keep the peace, they tell everybody there's a beast living in the jungle and they're the only ones that can protect them basically. I mean, I'm just butchering the story, but basically that's it. And so

there's one kid that gets picked on a lot and they call him piggy because he's a little chubby little kid. And he says maybe there is beast. Maybe there's only us. And that's what happens. Like they end up killing piggy. I'm sorry,

spoiler alert. They end up killing piggy and they're about to kill this other kid when suddenly a plane lands to rescue them. And it's all these, it's like, you know, the Royal Air Force or something, because I think it's written, a British author. And it, you know, all that stuff that they had done, all this murder and all this savagery and everything they had done in this short amount of time. Now they've got to go back and be prep school boys and explain why they did that. And so the idea is that, you know, there is evil in the world, but it exists in the human heart, you know. So that's what Blood Pigs was about. It started writing about that.

Then, you know, as a lot of songs do, they start to venture out and branch out into other meanings and things. But that's where it started. And I remember just kind of reading the lyrics. We were sitting around in a writing room, and we were just. I was kind of reading the lyrics to everybody. And then I think the guitar player at the time kind of came up with a riff and then the bass player joined in. Then the drummer joined in. And then I started, I go, oh, I got it.

I got to keep going. Keep going. Just play that circular, circular, circular. And so they kept just playing the riff over and over and over again. And then finally, the things that I had written started to fall into place. And then I was like, okay, I think I got it. And then I grabbed the mic and then the rest was history, you know. That's song, I'll be not.

professional for about 10 seconds. I listen to that song a lot. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. A lot. And it's just, uh, I recently discovered this I love to do last month. When you go to a restaurant alone and is eat a dinner, I was having a beer. And when you listen to music and your headphones alone, just reading the lyrics, it's so cool. Yeah. You're like, you're like out, but you're in like your own world. Yeah. Yeah. And you're just, you're just loose. You're having your dinner. I'm like, that was something I've done a lot of times with, with, with your music. O-Tep.

And then I was just, I was like, her, one, what is she talking about? But I know, but I know, to me, music travels in frequency. So, but I, the words are, this hit you in a way. It's like, what is, man, what, what trauma is she channeling? Because you're, because you're also like a, the vocal range that you hit. it during that song, I mean, has resonated for 20 plus years. The way, like, I just haven't heard someone do it that way where, like, it'll start like you're saying something.

Then it's like this demonic scream. And then it goes like, that's going to stop. It goes back down. And then like the, like, the very famous, obviously, like, low, like, roar. I'm like, what the? I was like, how do you? What the fuck? How did you?

Like, that's just, yeah, it just kind of transcends words. Thank you. It's cool. It's, you know, when I was first discovering to do all that, of course, I'd listen to a lot of different inspirations for it. But when I went in to do that song, I mean, again, it was about just unzipping. I could be vulnerable with Terry. I could be who I wanted to be. And he just said, go for it, you know, rolling, you know, press the button. And so I did. And so those moments where you hear me, you know, going up into that that, that, that, that, that, high banshee scream, I call it. And then I go back down. You know, that's just all breath

control. It's all just maintaining that control and that pain and that anger and that anguish. And also, I think the determination to overcome it, it's there that power. And so you just, you just kind of lock in. And it's hard for me to describe because it's so instinctual for me to do it. You know, and like I remember the first time, it was my first Oz Fest, my first full Oz Fest. I had, Phil and Selma walked up to me. And, you know, he's Phil, right? So he comes over and he's got his arms crossed and he's got this goatee and he's like,

you're O-Tep, right? And I was like, yeah, I'm O-Tep, man. How you doing, Phil? He's like, what kind of vocal processor do you use on stage? And I said, I don't. I use a beta-58A, man. And he said, no, you don't. What kind of vocal processor do you use?

And I said, I'm about to play. come watch. And so he came, he watched from side stage. And really nice of him because he kind of stayed out of the way. So nobody would be like, Cook, it's Phil. And after the show is over, he goes, okay, fine. You don't use a vocal process. And later I just saw him.

He took a nap in the middle of the street, right, like right where the buses were driving. And everybody just, nobody bothered him. I mean, it was different feel back then, you know, of course. But it was an amazing moment because, you know, I know that he's got such a powerful voice, you know, and to have him come up and do his whole, you know. Yeah. What kind of vocal processor do you use? And I've met Phil. We recorded at one of his, I think he owns part of a studio in New Orleans.

And we recorded a record right after Hurricane Katrina down there. And he came. And he was just wild, man. I had to go in and calm him down because we were trying to record in the other room because he was just so loud in there. I was like, Phil, O-Tope. I'm like, dude, sorry, sorry.

Trying to work. You're trying to work here, man, you know, or paying by the hour. Yeah, because when you're like a just a casual listener and you're finding out like this new band for the first time, you're like, you hear it? You're like, what is that? Is that possible?

What the heck? Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was, the thing is, too, is like a lot of people thought that, who had just heard the record, like, say, blood pigs, who just heard blood pigs. They would be like, who's that guy? Screaming. You know? And then I'd be like, oh, that's me.

And they're like, no, it's not. And I was like, no, it's me. That's me. And I'm like, come to the show. Come to see you. See what I do. And even now, people will accuse me of using like this and that and that. And I'm like, okay, go to my Instagram and look at the second video I just posted recently of like just from this last tour of me doing blood pigs.

And, you know, it's just me. I actually got a, I had a wireless now because I was getting tripped up by the wired mics. But yeah, you can hear it. It's live, man. and it's there. I mean, it's deep and heavy and powerful. And I understand why certain people would think that

because they typically don't see a lot of women. And now it's changing, gratefully, thankfully, that women are doing a lot more vocals and doing heavy vocals. But when I started, not very many people were doing what I was doing. And so not many people believed that I could do it. And so,

and then once I could do it, got into voiceover and I was doing like movies and you know video games and things and and people quickly were like okay all right we hear that you know we hear the monsters and everything that you can do so what what what a compliment though yeah it's probably it probably at first when you hear it and you see you're talking to them it's probably that first initial massive dis but it's actually but the undertones are actually a major compliment actually it's me yeah yeah at first it was always like hey no no no No, no, no.

And, I mean, at first I kind of felt, yeah, you're right. I felt kind of good about correcting them. Like, no, that's me. That's me. That's all me, man. Can't fake that shit. Can't fake it. It's real.

And if you want to see, I'll be on stage in like an hour, so you can come watch. It's like, well, you come watch. Yeah, I'm right there, dude. And, you know, it's, but, you know, the one that bothered me the most is when, like, when we used to do, like, signings at FYE tents, you know, back in the day at Ozfest. And people would come in and say, things like, oh, you scream pretty good for a girl. Oh, no.

And I would just look at him. I go, I don't just scream good, like, for anybody. And they would just be like, no, I just mean that you just, you, it's, it's, I've never heard a girl scream like that. And I'm like, oh, that's, that's the way to say it. That's a better way to say it. Otherwise, it sounds a little insulting. Obviously, there's part of some of that, but there's also some of, like, sometimes people

just will, like, be around you, and they're so nervous, they'll tell to say something. They said, okay, I have to say something. I'll say this. And then it comes out like, oh, is that what I'm going to say? I know. I didn't want to say that. That's true. It's happened to me.

I met when I met Dave Grohl once, I was like, I can't, you know, because my bus driver went to, like, school with him or something. So he was at the, he was on the sunset strip, and I got to meet him, and I just looked at him, and I just scrubbed his beard, his little beard. I was like, you're Dave Grohl. I can't talk to you. And I ran away. Because I was like, you're.

You're in two of my favorite bands. I can't talk to you, man. And he was like, oh, you're that girl. It goes grr. And I was like, yeah, that's me. Awesome. And I ran away. Yeah.

Yeah. And when someone gives you a major compliment, I think that that's your go-to, honest, runaway. The exit. Exit. Yeah. I must exit this beautiful moment as soon as possible.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. I don't want to ruin it. I don't want to say something else that I'm going to walk away with what you just said and keep that like right here. And I have all these years. It was pretty amazing.

you've been i mean you're talking like the first record comes out so you're at osbest times in 2001 and 2002 like you were o'tep you were really like a pioneer and like extreme vocals for for women like you're really like this one of those early okay wait she could do like anything holy well now it's it's pretty common you know you have you have a bunch of sick sick bands. You had thinking about like arch-animity and stuff. It's like, but back then,

you did this, it was like, what, a handful of bands? Uh, yeah. I mean, when I,

and I was so new to the genre, I didn't know a whole lot. So I, as far as I knew, there weren't very many at all. And even, even audience attendance, it was mostly male.

And if they brought their girlfriend or their sister, you know, a friend or something. And now it's like the first five rows are all women and getting murdered by the pit, you know,

behind them, you know, because they're getting smashed against the barric Yeah. But, you know, there's, there's, there's, I think there's some, I have mixed feelings about it in a lot of ways. Because, yeah, I did go out there and I did put myself on the line for a lot of, for, for myself. I mean, when people ask me questions like, what's it like being a girl in this?

And all that, I never thought about it. I didn't think about gender. I didn't think about that. I didn't think about any of that. I just thought I was a singer in a band and I was doing what I do. And people are either going to like it or they're not. You know, I didn't think, I'm a woman and I'm doing something that women don't do. I just never thought of it like that.

It wasn't until people started asking me, like, what's it like to be compared, you know, to Cory Taylor and Phil Anselmo and Chino Moreno. And I was like, pretty awesome, pretty awesome. As the female version, I'm like, oh, well, okay, yeah, that's still awesome. But, you know, and now that there's so many artists that are coming up, you know, I'm glad to see that. I'm glad to see that. If I had anything to do with inspiring them

or opening any doors or, you know, building, digging and emotes, not just drawing a line, but digging a moat, then I'm proud of that because, you know, we all benefit from when music is represented by diversity. We all benefit from it, you know. You've always seen to put your neck out there. with pretty much

anything. Like that, I mean, that era, I mean, I'll never, always explain it the best I can.

Like, there's different eras. Like, my era was like, you know, 2005, but, but, but when we missed that,

crazy, we'll never understand or know what that was like for, so for you to come out and be a, a pioneer

and then go off to even come out and do other things to always put your neck out there first, you know? You always,

you always been like, like, natural leader? I guess so. I think I look at things like if I'm in a position where I can say something, I will. And I grew up really poor and not great environments. So, you know, if no one was saying anything or stepping up to do something, then I would. And that's just how I was like that when I was a kid.

And I'm like that now. I feel like if no one's speaking up, why not? You know, and so somebody should speak for these people that, for, and people like me, my people, whoever they are, we should. And I don't know, you know, it's, I thank you for saying that. A natural leader usually translate in certain circles as being a bitch, you know, women, when you're, when you're take on leadership roles, you're like a bitch or something like that. But men can be bossy and, you know, rude and, or leaders.

And their scene is that. So hopefully that's changing. I mean, you said it, so it must be changing. But thank you for saying that. That's very kind of, yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, even, like, your band's just coming out, and, like, you have, you know, people that book festivals

trying to blacklist you for just, like, speak in your mind. And that's why there's only, like, a few guests that I've had. Like, I could kind of see, like, there's no filter. Those are the guests I want. It's cool. I'm right here, brother. You know, no filter. It's like just, you know, just speak your mind.

Because people, bands are just afraid or artists are afraid just like to lose what they have. So they won't take that next step. And when you come out and say what you want to say and then there's rumors going around that like, oh, we're going to get blacklisted from this fucking festival or this agent doesn't want to work with us. But you never. also what you have is you never backtracked. No. That's sick. Never.

Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, thank you. That's very kind of you. Second, when I was really vocal about a lot of things, like when I wrote Warhead, and that, you know, I have military family. I mean, most of my, the men and my family have served in the United States military, especially the older generation. So when I wrote warhead, it wasn't, people were blatant saying I was against the troops because I disagreed with the president, which was Bush at the time. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Why are we going into Iraq?

You know, they didn't attack us. So I had no problem with us trying to hunt down bin Laden in Afghanistan and anywhere that he was hiding, but he wasn't hiding in Iraq. So we didn't have, you know, and I have the ultimate respect for all our military. personnel who go where they're supposed to go and do their jobs and just want to get home to their families and they want to help, you know, defend the United States of America. I had, and I have a lot of veterans. I had a lot of active duty personnel still come to my shows and they've given me their medals. They've given me different things that they've earned.

I had one young woman from the United States Marine Corps who was on, she was on leave from Afghanistan. and some guy was groping women in the audience, and she saw it. And then he said something to him, and then he groped her. And then she proceeded to just marine the shit out of this fool. Like she just beat him down so bad. His nose looked like a deflated balloon. It was laying on the side of his face.

After the show was over, I shook her hand, and I gave her some signed stuff she wanted to sign. And then she gave me the hat that she wore in Afghanistan, and I still have it. It smells like sweat and sand. And, um, beautiful. Yeah. And I just feel like, you know, I had a lot of, when I was speaking out, I had a lot of like, um, um, bands that are much bigger than me, but I'm friends with their, with the singers or the guitar players or whatever. And they would text me like, that's amazing.

Thanks for saying what you're saying. You know, my brother's in the military or my cousins in the military or thank you for doing that. And I'm thinking, why aren't you doing it? And I would ask them, why are you doing it? You have a much bigger audience to me. You have much bigger reach than I do. They said, we don't want to divide our audience. And we don't want to lose, you know, what we have. You know, we know that you're getting shadow banned. We know you're getting blacklisted from festivals. I mean, honestly, the last traveling festival I did was OzFest.

And that's it. Yeah. I didn't even... You know what I didn't even... I tried to get on Mayhem. I didn't... I tried to get on Mayhem every year. And they never accept...

They didn't even give me a shitty offer. $500, $50, nothing. They didn't give me a shitty offer. They just didn't want me. I played Nottfest one year. And the guy that ran Nottfest also ran... Mayhem and he came over to me and said, and he was like did not want me to play that festival. And so we were supposed to play second stage and they put us on the local stage, even though

our dressing room was way across the way at second stage. So we, but I was like, I don't care. Okay, let's play. Let's play. But wherever they put us, we put us in a parking lot. So about five minutes before we're supposed to go on, I had my guitar players start playing through the speakers. I said, just, you know, we call it Jun Jjuns. I said, just just Jun, John, John, John, John, John, John. And all of a sudden, we were peeking out and we just

saw people running, sprinting across the fields to get to us. And by the time it was over, I mean, I got video of that too. I try to get as much evidence as possible to be like, listen, you know, I don't know why you're doing this because I cut my teeth on festivals. I mean, like you brought up earlier, I only did, you know, five, six, seven, seven. shows before Osfest was my seventh or eighth show as a live band. I cut my teeth on festivals. I learned how to play festivals. That's how I learned how to, you know, audience control and band control and just what I do live. I learned on festivals. We had 20 minutes to play on Osfest. So you had to cram everything into 20 minutes. And so when the other traveling festivals are going on and we actually want to poll one year by the fans, who do you want to see on Mayhem and the OTP won? And the OTP won. And the other traveling festivals are going on. And we actually won. And we actually won. And we actually won't. And the they didn't even offer. I reached out to my agent. I'm like, did we get an offer?

No. And so after it was over, like, oh, we'll talk about it. And even Slipknot manager came up to me and said, hey, sorry, we had you on the wrong stage. It was a mistake. I was like, it don't matter. It doesn't matter. That's cool, man. Don't worry about it.

I'm going to do whatever I have to do. And that's why, you know, sometimes, like, haters will come on and they'll be like, all you ever do is headline. Well, there's a reason why. Because we don't get offers from other bands because I think they're nervous that we're going to, I'm going to come out

and either, you know, well, outplay them, and they're going to have to tell me to tone it down again, because that not only happened on OzFest, it happened on some other shows that I've done with other people. But it's either that or they just don't like me, you know, they don't like what I say or what I stand for, and I don't care. I've been doing this for two decades, my ninth album. I'm just going to keep doing what I do, and if they don't like it, they don't have to, you know.

Mayhem's not around anymore, but I am, you know. Yeah, I think people should be allowed Just be out of control That's just That's what I mean That's what I thought You know I mean I was I was there when people

When on certain festivals that I played on Different shows where there were other artists Who were on main stage Where were you know Urinating in cups and throwing them on the crowd Or throwing them on security Doing shit like that And I'm thinking like

Yeah And they're not even getting in trouble for it. Okay, yeah, they've sold a lot more records than I have, but that gives them more leeway. Okay, how about you give me that same opportunity and see what happens? But it just didn't play out that way for me, and I've accepted it, and I'm

just doing what I do, man. I'm just doing it, you know. And it's weird because I do have a lot of friends and some really big bands, and I've actually reached out to them like, hey, you know, you played on one of my records. You know, I heard you guys are getting back together and you're going out.

What about taking me, man? You can come out and play one of the songs you've helped me write. And nope, not even a reply. So I've just accepted it. This is my existence. This is my reality. And I'm just going to keep doing what I do, you know. OTA, why do you think that is?

I don't know. I don't know. Because I know that there are other political bands that are much more political than I am. Fever 333. They're extremely political. Great band. I like them a lot. But they're, I think, as far as politically, they're probably far left than I am.

You know, and I know that that was a big excuse. Oh, she's too liberal. Or, you know, she's too, you know, she's going to talk. She's going to give a political speech on stage or something like that. And I don't do that. You know, I play music. But I don't know. I don't know.

I really don't. It's a conundrum. And I stopped trying to figure it out a few years ago because it just kept breaking my heart. really because I really wanted to be out there and I really wanted to play. And I'm like, I sell tickets. I sell merch. I kick ass on stage. My band kicks ass on stage.

It's not just me. We do our jobs. You're not going to have any problems with us. You're not, you know, no one's going to have any problem. We're just going to go up there and rock the house and give everybody, you know, a memory. And that's what I thought, you know, these things are for. But some people just have it in their minds that they just don't like me. so I don't know

It's weird Yeah It's boy It's very weird Yeah It's kind of what you want In industry You want someone that's kind of

You know She might be a little bit Political Who cares You want that kind of energy On a tour package That and the socialists used to You know

I think there was a time Early on In my career When people didn't know That I was I was a lesbian And so They thought

You know A lot of the People thought Oh she'll come I had a radio guy once. Radio, he's a programmer for a radio station. And he asked me, he's like, hey, me and my girlfriend, we're going back to the house,

we're going to party, you know, we're going to cut up some lines, we're going to drink, and we're going to sit in the hot tub. You want to come? And first of all, I'm a little bit of a germaphobe, so sitting in, like, a hot tub of strangers, it's like a petri dish. I'm not really interested in that, first of all. I don't know what you've been doing in that hot tub,

and I don't know, you know. And also, I just, I've got a show tomorrow. I can't go out and, like, hang out with you. And I don't do drugs like that and respect to people that do their own thing. It's just not my thing. But I just, I've got to sing tomorrow. So I can't be up all night. And I don't, and, you know, you want to sit around and go get a coffee and talk about, you know, Hunter S. Thompson or, you know, a favorite writer of mine or something like that.

We can do that. We can, we can hang out. But if we're, I don't, I just have no interest in going, hanging out with you and like your stripper girlfriend. And no disrespect to that either. Like, you know, everybody's got their own thing. But I'm just saying it's like it wasn't. So those things just started to build up over time, I think. And people started to get this without ever even talking to me or my or my representatives.

Like, what's she like? You know, what is she going to give us trouble? Is there going to be a problem? But what trouble? Like, we don't destroy hotel rooms. We don't destroy green rooms. We don't do any of that shit. Like, we just play music.

That's all we do. And for those that don't like the music, I always tell them. Then don't listen. You know, if you don't, why does it matter to you so much? Like, why do you care? Like, you just come on my Facebook. You don't even, like, you can just, like, start talking shit about rumors and things that don't, that are 15 years old and have been disproven by now. And yet, convict.

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in Shopify. coms bar records. Why? You know, like I don't take away anything from

your favorite bands. My music doesn't take away from that person's favorite bands. It doesn't take away from your life

at all. I'm just doing what I can do to the best of my ability and if you don't like it don't listen. When you made it public that you were lesbian did you really was did the device in this start there? Did you know any kind of like oh wait things are getting

kind of weird? It started on I mean I never like it was like hello I'm a lesbian and everybody hide your women I didn't do that I just my girlfriend came out and visited me on OzFest one time and we were it was you know we already played our set so you know

on second stage it's done by six o'clock or whatever so we've got the rest of the day so we were just we'd gone to catering and we were just sitting out in a field somewhere you know because that's all it is it's all fields everywhere you know and so we were just sitting out in a field just being girlfriends just talking and eating and hanging out and somebody took a photo uh i don't remember this like MTV was still big and all that kind of stuff you know so somebody took a photo of us and um it got out. And then I had Randos coming up and saying hey, so you like girls.

And I said Yeah. A random person said that too. Yeah. And they were someone in that was in authority. They were like a show buyer. And I said, yep, I do. And they're like, I do too. And I said, great. We got something in common.

And he goes, well, do you want a third? And I said, No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're misunderstanding. What you watch on Porn Hub is not real life. Like, you're not going to walk into my house and, like, see my girlfriend walking around in a towel, and we're going to be like, oh, my God, a man, like, that's just what we needed.

Like, that's just not what happens. It's like, so my dude comes over to your house and is like, hey, it's your high girlfriend. Like, let's, you need a third? I mean, what, how would you at? You know what I'm saying? It's like, what am I supposed to react to that? So I just politely go, no, I don't. And, you know, I like women the way you like women.

And I like men the way you like men. And, you know, and the strange thing is that I also got like a lot of, you know, I wrote men aside in the first record. And that's about predators and rapists and pedophiles and all that. But then I get like all these, these, I got awarded the Psychopath of the Century Award by a men's rights group who I said, you're defending pedophiles. and rapists and predators and groomers and that's sex traffickers that's what you're doing no no no no no you hate men i was like no i i have i have a bunch of brothers who are my best friends and my whole

band is male my agent is male my lawyer's male um my bus driver i mean what are you talking about like it doesn't mean you know well you just don't like me no i i don't know you so how can i dislike you but i look at you like a kendall you know i don't notice anything below the waist this is in me, you know? Just like, I guess you would probably, as a man, you would look at other men, like you'd probably don't think, like, what that guy, what would it feel like if that guy mounted me right now? Like, like, what? They doesn't even enter my mind, you know? And the other thing that I think people misconstrue is that I've had deep, deep relationships with men that were not sexual, but they were intimate. And that's, there was an, an emotional intimacy

there. And we connected through art. or something, activism, something like that. And I became really close. You know, I mean, in some regards,

the emotional intimacy was even more than like, you know, these, you know, some of the gay for a day or gay for O-TEP girls, you know,

like they, they meant more to me than the sex did, you know, like when I had with women. You know, it's like it was a really meaningful relationship. And I still have some

with, with men like that. It's just people have this idea that you either are, you know, you either are straight or gay or you're not or it's a choice. And I'm like, it's not a choice. Like, when did you choose to be straight? Because then if you're saying it's a choice, then you can also choose to be gay. And I can hook you up with any number of, you know, well, my brother was alive. I could hook you up with any of his friends, you know. So it's not a choice, you know. And like people will come back and say, oh, when I saw my second grade teacher's boobs or something, I know, when I noticed, for booze or something like that. I'm like, well, same.

Same. You know? It just, it's a, it's not, I didn't choose to have freckles, I didn't choose to have blonde hair, I didn't choose to be this badass and I didn't choose to be gay. You know, it's like, how would, how did, this is just weird thinking for that. Now, luckily, it's a lot of that's changed. Even in the aggressive music genre, it's changing. And that's good. That's good. We're seeing progress.

Some of the louder voices want us to regress, you know, and that's okay. That's what usually happens when a movement is dying. They start to scream. They start to get louder and louder and louder. And it's up to us who are trying to move things forward and be more progressive and more accepting and more diverse to be louder than those that are, you know, diminishing beneath our boots. Yeah, it's just getting really loud right now. Everybody. Especially in some of the red states and we played a lot of those red states.

And I was expecting to get, because that was when a lot of the militias and stuff were going around and they were protesting drag shows. And if you weren't, in certain states, if you didn't dress according to your biological gender, then you could be arrested. And so I was, I called my lawyer and I said, well, what about me? I don't dress I dress in like I wear tank tops and Adidas pants and sneakers like what is that

is that feminine enough for am I going to get arrested? He's like I don't know I was like okay well I'll just go see what happens so I did and I didn't you know but I was I was hoping that they'd show up I was really hoping they'd show up I enjoy it I

there's a part of me that really enjoys having discourse honest discourse or dishonest discourse depending on where it's going with people that are bigots or who have that that sort of very limited thinking because they're puddles you know and once you get once you smash a puddle boom you're just left with muck and there's not left there's not a whole lot you can do with muck you know other than just you know uh wipe it off your shoe so uh this is

where people get i think this thing about me we're like oh well she's comparing herself to the ocean and she's calling these other people puddles well that's the way i feel i mean i'm being honest. That's the way I feel. You want to be a puddle and you want to go up against the ocean? Be my guest. I remember when we played somewhere in Florida and there was a bunch of conservatives who were protesting across the street and it was right where Target was. And like on the road, it's like Target, oh man, let's go to Target, you know, buy something, get some, get off the bus. And they all, as soon as I came across the street, they all just descended upon me. And each one was

there for a different reason and they were all barking at me for different things you know you're a communist you're a social so I can't be both because those are competing ideologies oh you're this you're that you're this and so then I just started arguing with each one and then I had them and by arguing with each one

or debating each one depending on how you want to say it then they started to argue with each other and once they started to argue with each other I left oh my goodness that's sick yeah and so when I got back they were all gone After I was done, I was like, see, that's how you can, because a lot of these people, they're all there for different reasons, you know, mostly. It's either taxes or the this or that or this, social movements or it's the smaller government or it's about, you know, cultural issues and things.

And if you can get them arguing amongst themselves, then you don't have to, they do your job for you. So you just, I just leave. Kind of sounds like YouTube comments. Oh, oh my God. Yeah. I don't even, I don't even read YouTube comments. Don't read any comments Or blabbermouth

Yeah I don't read them either No because it It seeps in your psyche It just kind of just gets in there I just feel like And also I just feel like Who are you people

Like you know You just like Because I'll have people tell me like You know This this this this This about a band And I'm like What band are you in?

How about you You you Oh I don't have one Okay start a band In this climate Start a band And write 10 songs

I'll give you 11 because that's normally what record companies are doling out now 11. I always do more even though I don't get paid for it because I think the fans deserve more than 11 songs, but whatever. I said, you write 10 songs, show me how it's done, go out, have a 20-year career, write nine albums worth of material. And those are only the songs that made it. I've written more than, you know, however many songs I've written

that have made it onto a record. And then I'll listen to your point of view. But until then, you know, it's like you're telling you, telling me the sky's purple. It's not, so I don't care. It doesn't, it doesn't really bother me that much. Sometimes I'll go on, if I do go on to a YouTube and people are, are being just rude or whatever, I'll just be like, I'll just leave a little snide comment or something funny, you know, just to like, fuck with them. And they, they lose their energy real quick after that, you know. Or say something really nice back.

Yeah, like, thank you for the constructive criticism. I'll consider that next time from a stranger that I didn't ask for your opinion at all. But thank you. And that's part of what you have to learn when you get in to the music industry is that you're going to have critics. You're going to have people who don't know anything about music, but I have an opinion, you know,

and everybody has that. And that's what, you know, they used to call them armchair quarterbacks. People never played football, but they, you know, can want to tell the coach how to coach the team or the quarterback who to throw to and all that. You're always going to have these people who think they know more than the people that actually do it.

And I just, I just, I just, like I said, it's like telling me that, you know, the sky's purple. It isn't. So I'm not worried about it. Earth's not flat. I'm not worried about it. It's just doesn't, it doesn't bother me. It used to quite a bit. Yeah, I used to, I used to think like, what am I doing wrong? Because I didn't know anything about music. So what am I doing wrong? Now, because after I wrote Sevestraa, I wrote House of Secrets, and House of Secrets was a concept record. And it's vastly different than Sevestraa. Yeah. Really, really, really different. And so people came. A lot of my fans, actually, even, who loved Sevastraa, hated House of Secrets.

Really? Hated it. Now, they love it. They love it. They're like, why don't you play Baird Alive? Why aren't you playing that live? And I'm like, I thought you guys hated the record. Like, I know you, I know you.

I remember your name. I remember your name. Why they hate it? Because it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't. Most of my albums are different. I don't want to write the same. record every time. There are some bands where you could play me their most recent record and their first record and I think I can't tell you which song is which I don't know. And that's okay

for some people. That's what they do and that's fine. But for me, I just get bored and I always want to progress or challenge myself and write something new, you know, every time. And so that's what I try to do anyway. You have you, from the first record to the second one, you probably, you in the band probably had an insane probably year and a half too yeah like what were your relationships like with Moke and Evil Jane Rob

at that point Well Let's see That's a lot to take in It is I know that one One of the musicians Came on the bus one time And said I'm going to have a shirt made that says

No I don't know where O-TEP is And I think that that them always getting an autograph and then someone asking where's O-Tep, I think that affected them their ego. It's tough. So by the time we went into write House of Secrets, there was, I think there was already a building resentment. Oh, no.

Yeah. So luckily we worked with this great producer who's gone on to like gigantic fame now. He's, he's doing musicals and movies and stuff now. His name's Greg Wells. And he'd worked at the deaf tones before. And that's Terry actually recommended him. And so did my A&R who recommended Terry. So I trusted him.

And I'm glad I did because Greg is, he's a multi-instrumentalist. And he's just, he's an amazing, he becomes part of the band. He's just one of those producers, you know. He just eats everything up, listens to everything, reads your, you know, reads your lyrics, just to try to understand, like, absorb it, be a part of the energy in the room. And so when we started writing, writing house secrets and I had all these just different wild ideas that I wanted to do for that record. Some of the musicians, they didn't want to do it.

So two of them left and the drummer and the guitar player left. And so we had, rest in peace, we had Joey Jordison from Slipknot came in and played five songs on my second album. And that was like incredible. And I was like, holy shit, like I got Joey in here. You know, and I was such a fan, you know. But he was so sweet and such and no ego at all. Like he sat in that drum room. He's like, how was that?

You know, did I do good? Is that okay? Did you guys like it? We're like, oh my God, we loved it. And so I think at that, and then Greg played a lot of, you know, Greg stepped in and played a lot of the guitar parts. And the bass player stepped in and play a lot of the guitar parts as well. And we ended up just, you know,

I think it was my first concept album really so it's one of my favorite albums and now it's everybody else's favorite too so that's when I learned at that point to just stop listening to people and just follow your creative instincts wherever the muses lead you you go and if you believe it then other people will believe it they'll know if you're faking it they'll know if you're doing it for just for other reasons you know if you call it sell out was like a big deal like in the old days like, oh, you just sell out. You sold out. Yeah, I sell out clubs. But, you know, I saw shows, man.

But I just decided, you know, at this point, you know, what I'm doing is honest, you know, what I, at least to me it is. Everything that I write comes from a deep, dark place in my soul and my heart. And if I bring it to life on a record, then it's meaningful to me. And I remember when I wrote Apex Predator. off the Hydra album, which is only my second. That's my second concept album I ever did. Apex Predators, kind of like a goth rap kind of song.

And the band I had at the time hated it. And they were just like, nobody, no one's going to like this. It's not metal. You know, and I'm just, just wait. First show we did on the tour, every fan, there was a pit. There was every fan knew the words. They were singing along, and it was amazing. Same thing when I wrote equal rights, equal Fs.

That has like a trap beat in it, you know? It's in threes, you know. I am a pariah and every, you know, it's like, it's, it's not your typical, like, you know, metal song. It's not really at all. It's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, and that actually happened to me. It's based on a true story. I got, I went to Hawaii on a, I took my girlfriend at the time to Hawaii for our anniversary. I'm one of these, uh, romantic, sensitive types.

It's like, oh, it's her three months. month anniversary. We should celebrate. It's our six month anniversary. We should celebrate. And so I think it was our six month anniversary. We went to Hawaii and we just got done surfing and some guy comes over. I just feel this big paw on my shoulders. I'm trying to get my surf suit off, my wet suit off. And I turn around and there's this guy there. He's older guy. He's got this big pompador type hair do. And little man boobs, little belly. looked like he'd been working out with like 15 pound weights, dumbbells for a long time, because they had a little bit of, little bicep area, but skip leg day for like 35 years.

So he's like, you know, little sticks. And just sunbaked, man. I mean, just sunbaked. And he goes, oh, happy Father's Day. And I said, and it was Father's Day. So I was like, oh, thanks. I'll tell my dad. He goes, oh, I'm sorry.

I thought you were a man. And I was like, and that's a very typical thing for, like, like straight guys to say, because he'd saw me and her like kiss after we'd got done surfing, you know, for anniversary. And so, I said, he's like, I thought you were a man. I was like, oh, don't worry about it, dude. I was like, I saw the man tetties on you. And I thought you're a woman.

I was going to tell you that the topless beach is down the street, you know. So he's like, oh, you got some mouth on you, huh? And I said, well, you're going to go ask her. She'll tell you. And then he goes, ah, you're one of those. One of those. Yeah. And I was like, yeah.

And I didn't know what he meant. I was like, yeah, I'm one of those. I'm exactly one of those. So he took a step back and he brought up his right hand. He goes, so you believe in equal rights, huh? So I used to box. And so I took my stance and I put my left hand up and I go, yeah, and I believe in equal lefts too.

And then we stood there for a second, just staring at each other. And then he walked away and got it on his like old man motorcycle and, you know, drove away. It had like the big saddlebags and all that. It supposed to be like cop motorcycle. but he wasn't a cop. By that time, all of the surf instructors come running over, like, what's up, Uteb?

What happened? What happened? And I'm like, I don't know. That guy fucking was fucking with me. And they said, oh, shit, him. And I was like, what? And they're like, oh, leave it to you to pick the one guy that nobody will fuck with on the beach. And I don't know if he's like former, like, was in the mob or something.

I don't know idea. But like, no, but, like, the surf instructor's all tough guys. Like, they wouldn't mess with him. Really? Yeah. And they just let him drive. They just, he just drove off. So I was like, okay, whatever.

But yeah. So when I wrote that song, same thing. Band was like, oh, no, no one's going to like this song. No one's going to like it. We get out there, and sure enough, first, I said, put your fist in the air, the song goes out to everybody that believes in equality. Everybody cheers. And then I say a song's called Equal Rights, Equal F's.

Whole place erupts. Song comes in with the Inception horns, that bha-ha-ha-ha. And then we just start going in. And then everybody's head-bang and they're grooving, and pits going, and they're singing along. and then as soon as we get to the chorus, equal rights, equal left, fight for your rights.

And then everybody's just fists up, pounding, and it was just this amazing. And after the show was over, I was like, see, they like it. And I try to tell, like, a lot of younger bands, like, don't be afraid. Don't lock yourself into a genre. You know, if you feel it, play it. And when you go on stage, feel it.

Because if you feel it, the audience will recognize that you feel it. And they'll respect you for it. Whether they like the song or not, they'll respect you for it. Give it everything you got. As long as you believe in it, you know. And that's been what I've done, you know, my whole career. Like, if I believe in it, I'm going to do it. You believe what you say, you say it.

You believe what you're right and you're performing on stage. The whole thing. I think the way you are offstage also affects the way you are on, you know. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Just fucking throw it down everywhere. Yeah, man. I mean, I don't, you know, that's also a thing that I don't.

You know, I'm not, I'm territorial. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a bully. I hate bullies, in fact. So if I see somebody that's out and about and picking on somebody or they try to come at me, because a lot of times they will. They'll come at women in aggressive ways. And, you know, I'm usually, I try to put them in, like, this, I'm not the one. This is the wrong, I'm the wrong one to be fucking with right now.

Like, just go find somebody else or don't, you know, but this is not a safe exercise for you. This is not going to end up how you think, I promise. And so it's, that's just me, man, you know, I am who I am. Maybe in a weird way that's helped you just really cultivate thick skin. Sure, yeah. I mean, in a lot of ways it has to. I mean, especially when you grow up really poor. and we went to like a mixed

mixed schooling where like kids were really really wealthy or middle class or working class and we were like the lower working class poverty class so we're like buying our clothes at goodwill and you know army navy surplus or hand me downs from my older brothers and so you go to school and you get picked on a lot for that because you know kids are cruel

and they're going to pick on whatever they can and I've had this deep voice since I was four years old I was the big bad wolf in my kindergarten play for the fifth graders because no one else had the deepest, I had the deepest voice in the school. But I think that also, you know, there's a lot of things they can take from you, you know, but the way I was raised.

But they can't take away your dignity and they can't take away your self-respect unless you let them. And no one's taking that away from me, ever. And that's the way I've lived my life. That's what's up. Yeah. One last question. What do you think is,

because you're the perfect person to ask, What do you think is missing in metal today? Oh. I'm ready. I know you are. I mean, I remember really fast. I'm ready to run. This is nice.

Who gave this to you? Is it yours? Our bandwagon driver. Rowan Cloud, he's a native. Oh, excellent. Do you know what tribe? What nation? No.

X addict, sober now. Oh, fantastic. Great, pure hearty guy. Right on. I'm sorry What's missing from? Metal today Metal

Geez I just You know What's great is that I've been doing a lot of interviews and podcasts Since the new records coming out And everyone's like

You know New metal's coming back out New metal's coming It's you know I was just at some festival And there's all these new bands And everybody's doing new metal again And I'm like great

You know Because I thought that was One of the most exciting times In music Because there was You know I was talking about the deaf tones before. Like the deaf tones have a DJ. You know what I mean? Like one of the most

exciting dynamic bands in the world also has a DJ who's cutting tracks in the back, you know, same thing with Slipknot. You know, they got a DJ, they got a guy that plays keys. They got, you know, three percussionists. They've got, they got a guy that play samples. I mean, it was just an exciting time because you could just bring in, it was like fusion bands. You know, you could just bring in all of your inspirations. And that's what I try to, whenever, if I ever get asked from new bands, local bands, whatever, you know, what can we do? And I'm like, listen to, don't just listen to your genre. I mean, of course, study your genre if that's what the music you love, but listen to other

things, you know, you might get inspired by it, you know. Some of my favorite guitar players also are flamenco players, you know, and they play with their fingernails and, you know, but they can also like shred like nobody's business, you know. And especially, I think, you know, I try to tell them, like, you know, just open your mind. to different types of music and different inspirations and, you know, singers read more than you write. That's just, you know, that's just a common law for writers. You know, you always read more than you write. Fill your mind with words. But I think that as far as, you know, for me, I wish I had more opportunities to play than just headlining all the time. I wish I had that. Unfortunately,

that just isn't going to be, I don't think that's ever going to change for me. So, and that's okay. I'm just going to keep doing what I do. But as far as music is concerned, what's missing, I mean, what we're seeing now with the diversity and the progress and people owning what they say and what they're doing, I think it's great.

And I hope to see more of that. Cool. Well, O-TEP, it was honored to actually hang out with you. Yeah, man. It's good. It's badass. Yeah. This is my life. It's mine. We've seen across from Christmas with suicide science.

Oh, my goodness. It's badass. So crazy. So the new record came out on the 15th, right? It did. Cool. September 15th. What made you actually, okay, one more. What made you... Nine more questions.

Okay, nine more. What made you cover the Eminem song? Well, Mr. Mathers has been a big inspiration for me as far as a lyricist and just his cadence and everything. And honestly, that was the hardest song for me to cover vocally as a vocalist. Why? His timing is just so wild. He'll start on a three and end on a four and then start on a three. a two and end on a one. I mean, it's, it's, it's just, he has just this incredible. And so I think also

a lot of the things that we've discussed today about, you know, I am, whatever you say I am, you know, and if, and if I wasn't, then why would I say I am? You know, that, that, those lyrics, every song that I covered on this album started from a lyrical perspective. Can I relate? And what we're talking about before with genres, I think so many people lock themselves into a genre, that even if the song would be meaningful to them, they wouldn't listen because, oh, no, that's pop music. And even outside of our genre, like people won't listen to aggressive music,

oh, because it's too heavy, it's too heavy. So when I covered Olivia Rodriguez, you know, and I did alter the lyrics just a little bit to reflect my life. I did that with a lot of the songs as well. No one, most, a lot of my fans might not listen to Olivia Rodriguez, you know. but the song itself has a great message and great lyrics. And I, so for me, it was about choosing songs that meant something to me that I thought my fans could also find meaning and would be beneficial to them, to their ears.

And it's like what we did with the Beach Boys, California Girls. You know, that's like a beach pop surf song from the early 60s, but I'm a big true crime person. So I was like, I just finished watching some documentaries on like Ted Bundy, and all these different serial killers. And then I was looking through different songs to cover, and I came across California girls, and I started reading the lyrics,

and I was like, whoa, if you take out the, you take all that out, and you just read what he's saying, wow, that's dark. This is a guy that is objectifying women all over the country. At least that's how I read it. Maybe that's not how the original writer intended it, but the way I read it, this guy's dissecting women all over the country

and wants to build the perfect woman and he wants to put them in his hunting ground, California. Interesting. And so when I wrote the song, I wanted it to be dark. I wanted it to have some sort of like, you know, sexual obsession to it, and I wanted to sing it from the person that wrote it. So it has this kind of like obsession, seduction, darkness to it.

Maybe it's a little sexy in a very, very dark way, but also dangerous in a very important way. and so that's that's why I chose that song but every song every song somebody asked me why I chose territory pissings from nirvana instead of covering like heart shape box or whatever and I'm like well everybody covers that you know and but also I like a lot of nirvana's b-side stuff or or they're lesser known stuff and territory pissings is amazing it's like a true punk rock song and you know we just beefed it up just a little bit we didn't have to do a whole lot to that one I've added some things in the bridge but other than that is, it was that.

But yeah, and then the Billy Ali song, same thing, you know, and just on down, and then Pet and then Little Peep. And, I mean, we just, you know, we did, we just, like I said, I just went in on whatever songs meant something to me. The label wanted me to cover, like, hair metal bands. And I was like, I. Why? I don't, I think they like hair metal bands.

And I was like, I don't. So if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it my way. Because it was a COVID deal. They actually came to me and said, hey, we want you to do a cover. record and I'd never done one before. I'd covered songs in the past but never did a cover album. So they said they wanted eight cover. I said I don't want to do a whole cover

record. Okay, eight covers and three originals or two originals. And I said, well, I'll do three. And then I put my brother's voicemail at the very end. That's smart. Now it's in your music forever. Yeah, it is. A lifetime. Yeah, man. Well, Otebigan

was great to hang out with you. I'm honored. I appreciate your time. My man. Where can people find you? I'm everywhere, pretty much. I'm on Facebook, O-Tep Official, Instagram, I'm not really much on Twitter anymore because it's garbage.

Toxic? Yeah, it's a dumpster fire now. I'm on threads, but mainly, you know, just the, I don't really mess around with TikTok too much, but I have a TikTok account. But yeah, pretty much Facebook, Instagram, threads. That's where you'll find me.

O-Tep Official and all. all of them cool oh and check out the new record just came out last week and uh yeah that's it appreciate it later