Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Collusion in the NFL?! plus Aaron Rodgers, Win Totals, and Cowboys Cheerleaders

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Geoff and Matt are back to talk about the big story of the week: alleged collusion among NFL owners around guaranteed contracts. Then, will Aaron Rodgers just stop? Finally, Geoff and Matt talk about their favorite win totals, how to prepare for the season, America’s Sweethearts (the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders documentary on Netflix) and, if time, oddly positioned furnishings.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It is Friday, June 27th. I'm Jeff Schwartz. That is Matt for this Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you. Welcome in on this summer Friday. Hope you guys will have a great weekend forthcoming listening to this podcast as well. Please rate, review, subscribe as usual. We really appreciate that.

Matt, how you doing buddy? Great to see you pal. Feel like it's been a few weeks where we take our little downtime in the summer as most football shows tend to do. So it's nice to see you. It's good to see you as well. Of course we talk throughout the week,

even when we're not recording a podcast. It does feel like we got ball soon. And I'll tell you why. We'll talk about this more in depth later, but the preview magazines for college football are out. Like there is time to talk about college football. It's time to talk with the NFL. We'll hit all those today.

Maybe we'll throw on some fun things. I'll tell you this, look. So O-line Masterminds is a offensive line seminar, Matt, that we put on each and every year. It's our eighth year, we'll be in about two weeks. And the tight end you, which I'm sure you've seen, right, with all the tight ends, they're fairly new, four or five years old.

And we're not in competition per se, because it's Travis Kelsey and Kittle and Greg Olson. It's hard to compete with those guys. But any competition we had, Matt, was lost when Taylor Swift showed up this weekend, or last weekend to the tight end you concert. I'm imploring Duke, and maybe you guys can send suggestions to me at Jeff Schwartz on Twitter. Like who is our Taylor Swift?

Who is our person that we can have at our online masterminds to go, to go viral. That's I'm working on the next couple of weeks. Maybe we just need like, you know, we just, we just need to glamorize the offensive line position a bit. Like maybe, you know, Pnay Sewell needs to start dating Sabrina Carpenter, like maybe that's what needs to happen. You know, like just sort of, we just go right at it. If Sabrina showed, the thing about the offensive line,

though, is I have a feeling that if the 200 of us or 300 of us, about 300 of us are sitting in the room and Sabrina Carpenter showed up. That would be insane. The percent of people that would knew who she is is what? 5% of people there? She also is probably like the size of your foot to knee. She's probably that height.

Look, I would imagine that the people who know who she is all have young daughters. Otherwise, if you don't have a child, I would imagine, and you're 28 years old. I don't know. I think she's famous enough. Like I can name more Sabrina Carpenter songs than Taylor Swift songs. Is that weird? Yes.

I can name. So this is, uh, well, you can't really make it. You can't have opinions about musical artists, but I do feel, you can't like make it. You can't have opinions about musical artists, but I do feel like they're, well, I don't need to step in any beehives if you catch my reference there. But I think- Oh, we go down that road.

We probably shouldn't. I think there are some pop, like pop stars that talk more to their same gender or the other gender. And I feel like Taylor Swift maybe is more often singing to women and Sabrina Carpenter is maybe singing to men. Do you know what I mean? Like whether that's implied or direct. That's a, well, it's, it's also just,

that's a very good way to put it. Like when you see Sabrina Carpenter's performances and her videos, it certainly would lead to that. The Beehive Country music thing, Like when you see Sabrina Carpenter's performances and her videos, it certainly would lead to that. The Beehive Country music thing, we don't have time for on this podcast, it's just not country music. Good luck, buddy. It's just not country music.

For viewers, I have no opinion on this. It's just not country music. Why can't we just agree on that? Why can't we agree with society, Matt? It's not country music. I don't even listen to country music, but I know what it sounds like. It's just not country music. Yeah, it's fair to country music, but I know what it sounds like. This is not country music.

Yeah, it's fair. Okay. Noted famous country song, Blackbird. I hear you. Yeah. All right, let's get back to the NFL. Interesting story this week. And I'll start us off here,

and I'll let you feel in the details. I know that you've studied up on this, so I'm glad to talk to you about this. So Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk and Pablo Torre released essentially a story that the NFL and the NFLPA had been in arbitration over a claim of collusion, which we talk about, or we throw the word out collusion a lot, right?

Which essentially means that a business or entity, right, is attempting to, what Matt, stifle the free market as a conglomerate when they're not supposed to. And it happens often in sports. We've seen it, like Colin Kaepernick, for example, he didn't win his collusion case, but he won $10 million-ish from the NFL for claiming that they colluded together,

all the teams that not sign him after he took a knee, okay? Now, it's hard to prove collusion any single time. It's why it's not proven very often. You just talk to other sports like Barry Bonds, was he colluded against not come back after he got older and the steroid allegations got a little longer and he wasn't as good anymore. Like we're teams gonna sign them anymore or not.

Like just talk about things like that happening, right? And the Arbitrator ruled essentially that when the Deshaun Watson deal happened with Cleve, remember, Cleve gave him a fully guaranteed contract. The NFL told the other NFL owners, like the management committee, told them, we're not doing this deal anymore. Do not give players this much guaranteed money.

Now, the Arbiter actually ruled against the NFLPA and said there wasn't enough evidence that they followed this line of thinking when giving future contracts to NFL players. So two things there, right? The Arbiter admitted there was a thought of collusion, but that didn't actually happen. All right, Matt, so the story's gained no traction

because no one cares. And I get it, if you're an average Joe, like why do you care if there's a fight between Lamar Jackson getting $180 million guaranteed or 230, it's not a fight that you really care about. But I know you, I think you listened to Pablo Torres podcast, you studied up on this. What are your thoughts just from like the basic story

and then I'll talk about kind of how I feel about it. Yeah, well first shout out to Pablo and his team. We're friends with them. I mean, amazing that they got all this information along with Florio, so shout out to them. I think a few things. I mean, I think the, I don't think, I think the reason it's not getting traction

is I don't think it's surprising to people, maybe because of the Kaepernick thing, but also I think the idea that very wealthy people might not always have everyone else's interests in mind is a theme in our world these days. But also I think you're right too, like the facts that, you know, I mean, Russell Wilson was, it was an example in these documents that have come out that. And actually I thought was interesting in, in Paolo's reporting was basically. He was up for a big contract with Denver at the time. Right. And he didn't pursue a fully guaranteed contracts.

And I forget who said it. I, it was maybe the GM of the Broncos. I called him a wuss. No, it. I, it was maybe the GM of the Broncos. I called him a wuss. No, it was actually, it was actually the head of the NFL PA. Head of the NFL. Was it treader? It was the player rep. Yeah.

Treader. Yeah. Yeah. So like right there, it's sort of like, well, that ended up being a thing that kind of undermined the case of the players union, but I find the fact that, you know, the central characters in this are really interesting, like if anyone other than Deshaun Watson had gotten this deal, Deshaun Watson, obviously with his off the field problems, then his on the field

problems and the fact that it's Cleveland, which sort of has its own reputation as a team. And then the next two are up are Russell Wilson and Lamar Jackson, who both. Are, you know, kind of perfectly oriented to break this system, right? Like Russell Wilson at the time, you know, he was this, you know, Superbowl winning quarterback, but people were a little divided. And then Lamar Jackson, you know, I remember us talking about it at the time. Like why aren't teams like, you know, falling all over themselves, their chap picks for him, but, you know, I remember us talking about it at the time. Like, why aren't teams like, you know, falling all over themselves,

to unload their chap picks for him. But, you know, apparently there was a little bit of confusion about that, including how he negotiated and, you know, his phone even, but I just thought that the, the facts, I w the thing I keep wondering is if, if the contract had been given to someone other than Deshaun Watson, would this whole thing have been different? Yes. So let's explain how the contracts work in the NFL,

for those who might not know, it's worth explaining, right? So basically, let's say a player signs in 2024, okay? And then 2025, the agent or the player looks at the contract last signed by the player deposition says I want that contract and more. Right. So typically like if 2024 if Matt got as a quarterback, got $10 Jeff Schwartz next year wants $11. Right. And that's typically the way contracts have worked. The next guy up gets the most money. We often talk about why did Brock pretty get so so much money? Why did Tua get so much money? They're just next up.

That's the way the contracts structure has worked for quarterback. Now it works that way a lot for left tackle and right tackle and for cornerback and linebacker, the next guy up gets the most money. And what made Deshaun Watson's deal so unique was it was fully guaranteed. And to my knowledge, only two quarterbacks

had fully guaranteed deals at signing. And there's a difference was fully guaranteed. And to my knowledge, only two quarterbacks had fully guaranteed deals at signing. And there's a difference between fully guaranteed and guaranteed just for like injury and skill, right? Guys can have fully guaranteed deals, but it's not really guaranteed for skill, just for injury, right? So this was fully guaranteed. The Sean Watson and Kirk Cousins,

which is kind of the exact opposite type of person and player, but nonetheless, like that's it. Okay. And at the time when the contract happened, all of us said, what are the Browns doing? What type of contract did they, the Browns had all the leverage in the spot and gave them an historic NFL deal.

And we said at the time, I think Matt, like there's just no way this is ever gonna be the future of the NFL. And then guess what ever going to be the future of the NFL. And then guess what? It wasn't the future of the NFL. And that's sort of why it's sort of a non story too. It's like everyone agreed the Sean Watson deal was terrible. The NF owners just said it out loud.

Hey guys, this deal sucks. How do we don't do that deal anymore? And then they just didn't do that deal anymore. So that's why I think it's not that big of a story. That's why I think like collusion in this in this situation is really hard to prove, right? Because Watson's deal is clearly the outlier of NFL history quarterback deals. So it's not like Lamar Jackson, who was next up, didn't get a fair market deal.

He got the, if you a waste Watson's deal, he got the most for the next quarterback up and to be fair, he got the most ever for a quarterback in totality of his contract. It wasn't all guaranteed like Watson. And then Kyler Murray, by the way, that same summer got again, a big contract that was in line with what quarterback should get of his caliber.

And it's, you know, and then in the documents, there was a comment from, I think I'm right on this, and one owner, I forget which one, I think it was Dean Spanos, who's the Chargers owner. The bid well. The bid well saying like, thank you for not giving him fully guaranteed money. And they're framing this like a gotcha moment.

That's after the fact. How's that a gotcha moment? Unless they have evidence beforehand, but congratulating someone after for doing a contract that was good for your business to me is not, that's just business. That's what business is. And you said in the beginning, you said that we assume there's a little bit of sliminess happening. Yeah, we do. I'm actually looking forward. So Paul Batorre put out, I got a long car ride to the beach after this He put out a podcast with with david samson former president of the mets, right? I mean marlins, right? I believe and then dominique foxworthy who's awesome who's former president of the nflpa

They did a podcast on this together. I've always seen a tweet from mike gold jr Saying he can't stand david on the podcast because he's very he's gonna be very pro owner, right? Of course um, and i'm curious to hear what they talk about because it'd be good to hear both sides here. But in the end, like, I think we all assume this is happening. And, but I wanna be very clear, like, I don't think the Ravens giving Lamar Jackson

the most money ever for a quarterback while not guaranteeing the whole contract is some form of collusion, Matt. Like I just don't think that's collusion. He got the most money ever. It just wasn't guaranteed. It was commensurate with the other deals that were done in the NFL.

They ignored the Sean Watson's contract. And I just, I don't know how big of a story this is because guys are still getting paid as much money as they should. Like no one's contract has been depressed. Now, yes, you can argue the guaranteed money's not there, but I've argued this for a while. Like if you're a quarterback and you're healthy,

you're getting all your dollars, like the guaranteed money's only in place if you blow your leg out and never play football again. If you are just a decent quarterback, you're seeing every single dollar of that contract, then two years in, you rip it up and you get a new deal anyways. So I, I, Mike four is going to make this thing. He hates NFLs and try his best to make this a thing. But Matt, I don't view it as that big of a deal. If, if we find information

that like they decide to pay guys less in general, but also to like Lamar Jackson didn't get less guaranteed money than the previous guy before Watson. He just got less. He just didn't get his full, his contract fully guaranteed, which is not a right in the CBA anyway. So, oh no, man, I don't really know if this is that big of a deal and that's why no one seems to really care at all. Yeah. Well, it's also, I mean, contracts and all this stuff are complicated and you know, it's hard to say it's hard for the normal average person to be too concerned with someone making,

you know, $200 million. I think, you know, one thing that's interesting to me is that the NBA does guarantee its contracts. I mean, there's some exceptions, but you know, Joel Embiid is going to make, you know, $70 million in 20, you know, 29 or whatever. I think both of those figures are wrong, but you get my example. And I think it's surprising to me that the NFL, which has more injury risk, you know, recent Achilles tears aside and brings in more revenue. Uh, that they, that that's not a thing.

I imagine the next CBA, which is in the 2030 area that will probably come up, especially now with this, but I, is that, was that something that has been talked about like among NFL players or how does that sort of, you know, how did NFL players kind of square that? Uh, in 2029, Joel MB makes $70 million. Oh, wow. That was exactly correct. His cap is 69 million, 65,000, 472. Yeah.

That's, that's the, the the old he's got a player option that you're good news. He's already opted in. He's I think he's going to take that. That's what I remember at NBA. They were like, is he going to take the billion dollar player option? I don't know. I don't know guys back to the studio. Yeah, we can announce it here on our show. I just saw Austin Reeves declined.ves declined a contract extension for $80 million

when he could be a free agent and make like 270 million. Like, oh, that's shocking news. He declined the $200 million less offer from the Lakers. What a surprise. What a surprise. If you had to guess how much Joel Embiida has made in his career. Oh my God.

Already or? Yeah, oh my God. Already or yeah. Oh my God. Couple hundred mil. I mean, his contract hasn't even really started. Like it's, I think it was the first year. 256 million. And yeah, I guess that's before. Geez.

That's before. Yeah. I mean, these NBA players are like, before he's laughing. He's due 55 next year, 59, 64. And so he's going to make in total $513 million in his career. So let's, I mean, this isn't a perfect comparison,

but he's an MVP. You know, he is clearly, you know, maybe not clearly, sorry, Philly fans, but you've had enough good stuff. He's probably washed. He's, you know, entering his thirties pretty soon. This is an NFL podcast. Excuse me for not having his bio memorized. Uh, but it's, it kind of reminiscence of Russell Wilson, right? Like, but the discrepancy in the money that these guys get is crazy. So, you know, the average, the fact that the NBA players, granted they obviously have more games,

but the NFL players have way more at risk. I'm surprised that this is the way it is. Like I'm surprised that the players haven't been able to negotiate fully guaranteed money, especially just considering the profits that this league brings in. So it's worth noting that, I think I'm right on this still, they've had different versions of CBAs and NBA and Major League Baseball, but I

think none of, there's actually no language in the CBA that guarantees their contracts. Matt, they just, it's just like, that's what the league is. They just, like, yeah, there's no, in the NBA, CBA, I don't think it says anything about guaranteed money. I think it's just common practice that all your money is guaranteed Uh, i'm fairly certain about that same with baseball. I think it guarantees at a certain date in the year if I remember correctly Okay, like in january. Well, I know the nfl does that as well Like if you're on the roster, you know the second week of the year your your money's guaranteed for the year. Um the this is

This is the hard part about these negotiations, right? With the CBA. Is you have 1700 players, right? The average career span is three years. I went through a CBA negotiation in 2011 and we were locked out, it was entering my fourth season. And I get it, like, am I, I want to miss paychecks because you just sit out games to get what you want the NFL that's what every other league has ever done baseball's

done it basketball's done it you have to you have to sit out games am I willing to miss a percent of my overall career earnings in this small window I have so players after I retire get guarantee contracts that's what the NFL players I have, so players after I retire get guaranteed contracts. Like that's what the NFL players I think have, that's the hardest part about this negotiation. You have all these guys that really, it's difficult for them to envision losing money to then let another generation make money.

Right, they sacrifice for that. And then NBA and baseball, you know, you play for a long time Like if you're a superstar you play forever. So we miss 30 games You've already made me talk about if a join be missed 30 games. He's already made 250 million dollars. Yeah, I mean it's and so that's why I think it's really difficult for players to do the necessary steps They would have to hold they have to strike right? You have to you have to not show up and cost the NFL a month

of television revenue for not playing in September for them to even get to the table and even talk about guaranteed contracts. The thing that I find interesting, and we don't have to spend the whole show on this topic, but I find someone, let's just say like you, you know, who had, you know, various destinations, like I imagine that for, you know, 90% of the NFL roster, it would not be hard to guarantee, you know, the contracts of, you know, the, you know,

backup running back or whatever. If you make the team, that's the part of this fight that I think could have some legs is I don't think people feel super bad for the quarterbacks. Josh Allen just broke to Sean Watson's record for guaranteed money. Uh, you know, two years before the, or four years before his contract was even up, the quarterbacks and star quarterbacks are going to be fine. The question I have is like, will this start maybe downstream for, you know, the other 52 guys on the roster? We're seeing this a little bit in the draft where, um, so the first round picks have had

their contracts guaranteed for a while now and not the second round picks. And this year picked 33 and 34. So the top center got guaranteed contracts and the rest of the second round picks. And this year picked 33 and 34. So the top center got guaranteed contracts. And the rest of the second round is not signed yet because they're negotiating guaranteed contracts as well. And it just takes years to actually get this to work the way you want, unless you put in the CBA of course, which again, players I think a lot of times

are gonna turn down the tough part about negotiations to make their money now and not worry about later. I mean, it's selfish, but I get it. I don't disagree with that mindset. I was a younger player. I totally get where they're coming. The other thing, Matt, that I think would make a big difference in the NFL's ability to,

the NFL PA's ability to really take action in the way that they need to is in the other sports leagues, um, their superstars are part of the, are part of the union. Um, and in, in, in the NFL, it's not, it's not, it's not the case. Um, and it's a, it's a big, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a big difference, right? Like I'm, I'm going to pull it up right now. I know, uh, PA, I want to wanna see if I can find, here we go. So the NBA leadership for the NFLPA,

you know, it's CJ McCollum, right? Is the president right now. Jalen Brown, Donovan Mitchell, Carl Anthony Towns, like superstars are all on the executive committee, right? And it's just, it's not that case in the NFL. And, you know, if Josh Allen and, you know, Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson are on, you know, the NFL PA, like that would make, I think, a huge difference in just the way to negotiate, right? So

that to me is a big, like, if we had superstars really take a role in it, I think it would go a little bit differently when you have these big dogs in charge of negotiations. That's so interesting. Yeah, well, I mean, there have been plenty of takes that basically say like, yeah, the NBA got this great, you know, they, we, we were saying it's, it's maybe a little more player friendly, but, uh, you know, they negotiated this CBA that has this whole second apron thing.

So now like free agency kind of, uh, is going to be depressed is the theory. So it's look, it's, it's all hard to figure this out. And, you know, I think we both are rooting for players to get their fair share and not get screwed. But, you know, I think this is one of those like, this could be a real problem and maybe it is, but, you know, the fact that the quarterback market continues to reset, that the guarantees still do roll in for the ones who deserve it, I think is noteworthy.

The thing that I found to be so interesting though was that I think if you just talked about Lamar Jackson, that story I think still is one of the weirdest NFL stories ever. Like, and it just continued to get even weirder, you know, because the, so many of these teams passed on the chance to, to potentially trade for him. He had that odd franchise tag, right? Where they could have, it seems could have made the offers. There was this document where he says, you know, his microphone on his phone didn't work for some reason. So it was hard for him to negotiate.

Like that's just like a really weird wrinkle in the story. Is there anything about the Lamar Jackson thing specifically that comes to mind for you? Okay. So I think, Matt, I think there's two separate stories here, right? There's why didn't teams trade for Lamar then the collusion didn't get a full guarantee. I think those are not related to be honest with you I

Think teams looked at Lamar who had some injury history and Just didn't want to give up multiple draft picks and give him as much money as he wanted. I think it's that simple and You might disagree with that decision But that's the way to do I don't think that a team like the Falcons, for example, were like, you know what? The NFL management committee said, we can't give him a guaranteed contract. We're not going after him.

I, like what? They can't. Like if you were to give it, so to trade two first round picks and then give him this monster deal is a lot for some people, for some TMs. And they just don't wanna do it. I think those are two separate stories.

One is that Lombardi didn't get a full contract that he deserved based off of the Sean Watt deal, and then another story is, well, why didn't teams want him in the first place? Yeah. So I think those are two separate things. I know people won't try to conflate them to make it, you know, to make it even more scandalous,

but I just, unless there's evidence that, you know, that we find that the Falklands or Colts explicitly wanted him and wanted him a full guaranteed deal and the NFL said no, then I think I just, they just, for whatever reason, thought it was too rich to spend on Lamar Jackson. Yeah. Well, it's funny now.

I mean, it looks really ridiculous now, but Lamar. It looks dumb. Yeah. I mean, this request, just for a little context, I had to look at it myself. He won the MVP in 2019. His trade request was in 2023. Since then, he won the MVP again, and then could have won it and became in second.

He split it this year. The writers association gave him the MVP this year. So, I mean, clearly he's proven people wrong. And at the time we are on the right side of history. You and I have spent multiple podcasts saying, Falcons, what are you doing? Commanders, what are you doing? Multiple other teams.

Those are the two that came to mind. But I will say it's nice to, good timing for another, you know, good timing for commanders fans. Like our owner for sure has got to be in that. Our old owner has got to be in there somewhere, but no one cares because Dan Snyder is finally gone. Thankfully.

So glad to get a clean record there from my once terrible team, I'm watching you maybe send a photo of this or something. How we doing over there? Something else. Um, cross my cross my desk. Um, I, you know, I, I multitask. Speaking about, uh, Washington, uh, how, how was the wizard's draft? Did the wizard's draft?

Well, uh, we were one draft? Did the Wizards draft well? We were one guy away from the guy everyone wanted. So, you know, that's how it goes every year. You were second? No, we were sixth. Oh, you wanted Ace Bailey. You wanted Ace Bailey. And he clearly wanted to go there

because the reason players want to go to Washington is they're so bad that they know they'll get their shots So instead he went to utah which you know careful what you wish for buddy But utah, you know people are gonna bag you don't want to go to utah at all No, it didn't one of my most interactive tweets in like months was about um ace bailey and uh and ruckers like it has I'll pull up right here. It has 164 retweets and 3000 likes. And because- Oh, Elon must've liked that one.

Well, Rutgers had two players drafted in the top five. Correct. And they won eight games in the conference last season. Yeah, missed the tournament. It's crazy. How's that possible? It's crazy. That makes me do wonder if Ace Bailey and I think it's Dylan, the first guy, I forget who's- Harper. Dylan that possible? It's crazy. That makes me do wonder if Ace Bailey and I think Dylan,

the first guy, I forget who it was. Harper. Dylan Harper are like actually any good. Yeah, it's raising some questions. Yeah. Not gonna lie. All I know is my Lakers drafted someone. I saw a tweet that was like,

this is a perfect fit for the Lakers. I'm like, sign me up. Great, great, great. I did not watch the draft. I, do you know the draft was two nights? I learned about it. I did and watch the draft. I, do you know the draft was two nights? I learned about it. I did and then I forgot. And then I was reminded after I saw your tweet

that said that pose that question. I don't know why the second round of the draft needs a second night. It's not like the NFL draft where you're still getting starters in round two. I'm reading. I think like in the entire second round, only one, two, three, four guys didn't get traded afterwards.

Wow. Bananas. Are we doing a riff on Stephen A's coverage on the draft or leave that to someone else? I think we can leave that to someone else. You can say whatever you want. I just don't, I tend to, I don't get who it's for. I like, the reason why the NFL draft is so good

is you have, of course it's a different sport, but like the people that are on the telecast, all they do is draft 24 seven. Like Dan Jeremiah, Mel Kuyper, Matt Miller, these guys just live and breathe draft. Like that's all those guys do 24 seven. They're doing it right now. They're doing it right now.

It's their first season. And like, I shouldn't be, I can find more guys that can do that. They can articulate and put, you know, and be good on television and not just stick with the same people all the time covering the draft that cover the regular season and the playoffs. Like just give us draft people. Yeah. I don't, I playoffs, like just give us draft people.

I told I want to know, give us draft people. I think two problems if we're talking about this. The first is I think these, the NBA prospects are often these like total hunks of clay now. Like you are more valuable if you were younger and worse than if you're older and better in a lot of cases. Like Walter Clayton is a better player right now than Nace Bailey. Obviously though he was going later, you know?

So they, I think that's it's like harder to explain, especially with these foreign guys, like, well, you know, they're this, that like different, but the other thing that's so weird is like, imagine if the NFL draft was like on president's day, like this, the idea that the season ends. And then two seconds later, you're thinking about like the Pelicans and you know, the jazz. It's just, it's strange. Like the NFL does something so well, which is like, you're in the season. And then the season, like every year I forget, there's like six bad weeks where you're like,

I don't even want to watch any of these games. Like I have to, but I don't even want to. And then you get to this time of year and you're like, dude, I would do anything to watch Daniel Jones play, you know, Tyler Shuck. Like I would do anything to watch that game right now, but we can't, they make their scarcity, right? Like in this world of like,

everything's available all the time. Like the NFL makes us miss it. And that's so rare in today's world. And I think it's just driving the desire for football even higher. Because once we have it, we're like, oh my God, we got to enjoy this while we have it. It's only, you know, 22 weeks.

Dude, NBA summer league is like next week. I actually was thinking about it today. Like, because I was thinking about like, how quickly do players who get drafted start their season? And look, WNBA players, the worst. You play your college season, you get drafted, you like go to training camp and you play like in a month. Baseball, you join in the middle of the season.

You get drafted, just go to the minor leagues, but then you get off in September, like you're done like after that, right? But now you might play winter ball and stuff like that. NBA, you go right to summer league. And then you start your season in October. So you do get a break after summer league. But football sort of like NBA, you go to OTAs immediately, basically, right? And then you get off a month or two and go back to camp. Yeah, I didn't know it was on Wednesday till like Tuesday.

And I didn't know it was two days till the next day. I was looking for, cause I was looking, you know what I was doing? I woke up, I was thinking Thursday morning, I was looking at the first round. Now I told you this before, I think. I read every single NFL draft greats. Like I read all of them.

I loved the great stuff. I was looking for the NBA. I was looking for the Lakers, who I know didn't have a first round pick. I was like, oh, let me see the second round. Are they great to Lakers picks? How'd it happen yet? I was like, what's happening now?

Also too, you know, I know people are talking a lot about the reaction of the players in the draft mat and how they didn't seem as excited as years past. I certainly think that, you know, the NIL money is playing a role in that, right? People seem so fixated on it. I just didn't care at all. Like, I think whatever, Oh, they're not happy. Went to the jazz.

I mean, yeah, I wouldn't want to live in Salt Lake City either. I mean, I actually didn't tell you it's fine, but, um, you know, I didn't, I didn't mind, I didn't, I didn't mind those things. Um, but people seem really put off. I'll tell you what, one thing that was odd about NBA recently. And this is, I don't know, even though, I wonder if Nick touched on this in his podcast. Did you notice when the Thunder won the championship,

there was like no celebration? Yeah, yeah. At the time I was looking at a tweet about it, but I figured I didn't want NBA Twitter to attack me because people are so territorial in this stuff. They didn't celebrate. Like what was up with that? There's their first championship.

They didn't like, I was very surprised. Is it because it was a Halliburton thing? They're like, we don't deserve it. I was like in awe. No one celebrated. Go guys, go back and watch the thunder. No one celebrated. Like hockey, they have a dog pile football.

Take a huge celebration. Um, baseball, they go, you know, run in and dog pile in the pitcher's mound. It was like nothing. I was very, very surprising. Do you want an opinion? I have one. Oh yeah. Let's hear.

Well, my opinion here is that, you know, a lot of people have been giving Sam Presti a lot of love. So I'll give him another compliment. And that's that he knows the kind of player who's going to thrive in a team first culture in Oklahoma City. Like you're not getting like I went there last year. And I when I was driving, I actually thought it was like a really fun place and it had like a nice small town feel.

The restaurants were great. Prices were great. Like everyone was super nice, but I remember thinking like, I can't believe like Kevin Durant lived here. Do you know what I mean? Not because it's not a nice place, but because it's not a place where I can imagine a lot of like international superstars being born out of and historically, you know, that obviously is proven out.

Whereas, you know, obviously that that's a little different in the NFL with, you know, my homes or someone is like a prime example, but I think that to succeed in Oklahoma city, you kind of need to not care about things like parties, you know what I mean? Even if you're 22 years old, like I think that you have to find and, you know, I wonder if this is true of like Buffalo, do you know what I mean? Like if, if you kind of need to find people who are going to buy into that, maybe more than the, you know, the big city lifestyle.

But I get that. That was a great take. And it was a great take. And I understand it up until you win a championship. When you're a championship, like it's okay to be emotional. Totally, yeah, yeah. I think up until that point, yes. And I think SGA embodies that.

I mean, SGA never seemed too high, too low, like right in the middle. But like no one saw it. It's like, like Hardenstein was like sort of jumping up and down. Like he's been, he's like the oldest guy, him and Caruso. Otherwise like, that was just like, it was like, oh, okay. Cool.

I don't know. It was interesting. Hardenstein's son, see him? Yeah. Yeah. I like that. It just seemed, it just was odd, I thought. Yeah.

All right. That's enough NBA coverage for the day. Well, can I ask this? You played, let's pick two teams. You played for the Giants and you played for the Panthers. Yes. Was there like a different, did it feel different in terms of like,

yeah. I, I, okay. So here's, it's interesting. You mentioned that, um, the giants were different because when you walk in the building, they have four Lombardi trophies in the lobby, right? And, and their ownership grew. Did they, when you were there? No, unfortunately. But if I, I'll tell you what, if I had a Super Bowl ring. They had three when you were there, I think, or maybe three. No, they had four by the time I got there.

Oh, interesting. I got there in 14. If I was part of one of those, we'd have a title sponsor. Yeah, I think we would. Yeah, okay. We could still have a title sponsor, by the way. If someone would like to hop in,

you have about, I don't know, 15 minutes to a phone call I'm about to have, but until then, you have time to hop in. Is like the Giants, when you walk in that building, you feel the winning, right? Like you feel it. And I wasn't part of a suitable team, but I was coughing with coach, both those teams

and the general manager. I mean, everyone had been through all that, coaches definitely not and you like you feel that right? Looking back on my other places. I've been at Houston feel that because you didn't win it those places never Carolina's no Super Bowl, Minnesota Maybe they I forget that Super Bowl like in Super Bowl three or something. I think they lost that game Yeah, and then Detroit didn't have it in Kansas City at the time, you know, they had one in like 1960, right? Like they didn't super before. I think it was. So it wasn't like they have it now. So you certainly, the vibe is different, but the celebration after a win was the same. It's hard to win the NFL. Like I mentioned this before, like the only thing I miss about the NFL

is the feeling after you win for like 15 minutes before you start thinking about the sack you gave up or the bad block you had. It was like 15 minutes where you just are walking the tunnel and you're just so euphoric. You're one, because the work you put in all week, right? It's a long week of work. Your body's beat to shit after a game.

And you're just like, hell yeah, we won. And you walk in the locker room and ownership is there. Everyone give him a handshake. Every coaches are happy. They're all high-fiving each other. And like there's, and then, and then like you do the, you know, the post-game speech and you do the prayer typically then like, that's it, right? Like everyone just gets showered and goes home and that feeling ends pretty quickly. But that 15, 20 minutes is, is awesome. Um, and okay. So you just didn't seem to cherish it at all. And I know I never won a championship.

I, I would have acted differently, but I'm not an NBA and, um, yeah, I just, maybe because I get maybe, maybe not, maybe because they were going to win after Halliburne got hurt, I guess. Um, can we, can we stop showing like some of those injuries? I think that's possible. Yeah. I think, yeah. I think it's up.

All right, Matt, you texted me earlier. I was like, I don't know what we're gonna talk about. It's been like 45 minutes now, so. Yeah, we talk mostly about contracts in the NBA. Do you wanna quickly do, you know, the show description has Aaron Rodgers in it. We can kick him, next week. Is he actually married?

Do we, do we know this for certain? He was asked, this was something that we mentioned Nick, right? I think we mentioned him every show. He said something to the effect of like, look closely at his language. Like he said he was wearing a wedding ring. He didn't say he got married. Like, could he be pulling another vaccinated, immunized thing on us?

Why would you wear a wedding ring if you are not married? Why would you say you're immunized when, when you're asked if you're vaccinated? Like, I don't know. Is he married to the game? Dude, the thing that he said that's so crazy was he was like, I can't wait to, uh, to be out of the public eye, like so that I could finally stop getting so much attention.

And he said that on a voluntary television appearance. Like the guy is just, it's just so unbelievable. I saw someone put out a tweet, like someone was defending him and they put out a screenshot of Aaron Rodgers, like being considered to be a running mate for VP, for RFK, you're like, he loves attention. He's not gonna stop.

Yeah, he's cooked. And I don't know, do you wanna briefly, NF win totals, Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, furniture and hotels, whatever you want. Is the cheerleader show good? Okay, here's, where's. Here's where's my camera. Here's my camera. We're going to end with this.

This Cowboys cheerleader show is thank you. John is the perfect couple's show. Okay. If you're wondering what to watch and maybe you don't want to do the bear for whatever reason that just came out. Watch this show. It is a incredibly well- done documentary from the guys who did Last Chance You, which if you watch that show, not a football show. I mean, they

also did basketball Last Chance You, but it's not, that was not a football show. You could watch that with your spouse, your girlfriend, whatever. Uh, this Cowboys cheerleader thing is the same. It is designed to, it watches over you because it's kind of a reality show, but it's kind of football and it's cheerleaders, you know, which are interesting people. Really good to watch for couples. Thank me later.

Okay. Interesting insight there. I, it wasn't on my menu to watch. Can I, okay, I'm gonna tell you this story. These people are intense. These cheerleaders. Oh, I'm gonna tell you this story. These people are intense, these cheerleaders. Oh, I'm gonna tell you this story about what we're watching right now at home.

And it's gonna give you a good insight into my wife. I know she's probably gonna hate that I share this, but no one's listening, doesn't matter. If you're all listening, please rate, review, and subscribe. Please. So my wife went to Mexico last weekend for her birthday. She just turned 40, congratulations. And the last night they're there,

the power, they're renting a house, like in Cancun, south of Cancun, by Plano Carmen. And the power went out for a couple hours, okay? I have this call on my phone from her friend. Hey, it's Maria. The power went out. I was dead, it was three o' call on my phone from her friend. Hey, it's Maria. The power went out. I was dead. It was three o'clock in the morning.

Dennis, I wake up in the morning. Everything's fine. But my wife said that they immediately thought that they were gonna get snatched. Like eight women in this house, the power's out. We're getting snatched. And I was like, they're not snatching you. They're not doing that.

So she came home and said, I want to watch Sicario to see what it's like. I think it's that. I was like, oh, okay. So we watched it together and then we're watching the second one now in like 25 minutes increments before she falls asleep every night.

But she decided that based off the power going out in her mind, they were getting snatched by Sicario's, I guess, I back convinced her to watch Sicario with me, which is not a movie she would ever like. She sits there and watches the entire thing without commentary. I don't understand her sometimes. I didn't know that that was what Sicario was about.

It's not at all about that. I was gonna say. That's the best thing about it. It has nothing to do with that. And she decided to come home and like, I don't know what's the cardio now. I was like, oh my God. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Sure. Sign me up for that. But like. Solid cast. I'm in. That's how she thinks.

It makes no sense. Well, at least you got to watch a good movie. I don't have a ton to add to that. Yeah, I don't know how to explain her mind. Like that's her mind works like that. So Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, I got to watch Bear season four is out now. Squid games final season just came out.

Oh, I still haven't watched season two. Okay. The bear last season, I don't know, it was okay. Oh, I didn't like as much other people did. Hope this is better. It wasn't a big fan either. Hope this is better. That's a review of shows we've watched.

It's June. Oh, dude. What? Last thing. Tires is my humor. OK, I haven't seen this show yet, but I don't love it. Buddy, in season two, they do this HR meeting meeting and it is one of the funniest things that it's, it's, it's the office essentially, but like cruder and dumber people that are in the show. But that makes sense. Like it's the office that they're, they're tire sales or auto sales or a body shop, I should say, that sells parts too. It's incredible.

It's so funny. And you know, they've, Shane's in there and it's a Strava, Strava's, Sarvas, Sarvas? Yeah, Starve, yeah. He's good too. And it's funny, dude. I very much enjoy it. But it's, look, my kids are going to camp

July 7th for a month. I will need stuff to watch. Well, we will definitely have things to talk about. And by then we'll be doing our over-unders for real. Oh yeah, I can't wait. And yeah, look forward to that. All right, buddy. We'll talk to you guys next week. I think I'll talk to you in like five minutes,

but otherwise we'll talk to you guys next week. I think I'm gonna talk to you in like five minutes, but otherwise we'll talk to you guys next week, everyone. Actually, we won't next week. Next week's July 4th. So- Oh yeah, cool. We'll be back after that. We're back after that. Then it's my birthday.

So we'll figure it out. We'll be back at some point this summer. We will do what we've done, I think, in the past. So just a heads up real quick. We're gonna preview every division we've done in the past come probably August ish maybe early July late July we'll preview every division we'll do all the widgets we like Hall of Fame is July 31st so we're like a month away. Not even in August. July 31st this year so ball will be here before we know it everyone. Have a good weekend.

Talk to you guys in a couple of weeks. See you buddy. You