Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Deshaun Watson Ruling, Phinsgate Fallout, and Training Camp Brawls

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

Geoff and Gabe are back to break down some huge NFL news from the past week. First, Geoff shares his thoughts on the conclusion of the NFL's investigation into Deshaun Watson and whether Commissioner Goodell will add on to the judge's recommended suspension. Then Geoff and Gabe discuss the fines and suspensions handed out to the Dolphins top brass as a punishment for tampering... but of course, the player they tampered with got off scott free. Plus, on a jam-packed Moving the Line, Geoff drops hot takes on Odell Beckham, Alvin Kamara, Kyler Murray, Tiger Woods, Juan Soto, Kurt Rambis, and more. As always, be sure to rate and comment on the podcast if you enjoyed, and follow to get alerted when a new episode drops. Divisional prop bet previews with Matt Ford will be back next week, so be sure to tweet @geoffschwartz with which teams you want to hear about first!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

it's wednesday august 3rd i'm jeff schwartz alongside gabe goodwin this is jeff schwartz this morning you're powered by the varsity podcast network deshaun watson is finally suspended by the nfl the dolphins were found guilty of tampering and so much more we have the hall of fame game this week we're officially in pads and training camp and gabe this could not be a better week to get back going into our full routine, our full schedule. You are in London. It doesn't look like a farm. Last time when you were in London, you were in a farm. This looks like a nice hotel room, but glad to have you with me today. Lots to talk about. Yeah, it's an okay Airbnb. Jeff, it's the first week of August.

We're supposed to be talking about training camp fights and goofy pranks pulled on rookies. Yes. Hard knocks coming. We're not supposed to be talking about two of the most complicated and serious and debatable and polarizing stories in recent NFL history. But that's where we are. So you're going to earn your money. You better be smarter than the rest of us because these first two are tricky ones. I'm ready, man.

I mean, look, I've read, about the Deshaun Watson decision and I have thoughts and I hope you come here to find some, you know, nuanced thoughts. Cause we're gonna talk kind of this all the way through. Um, and then we'll probably have more fun and laugh at the dolphins in a few minutes. So, uh, let's get to some of the, uh, the Watson, uh, the Watson news and notes from his suspension. Yeah. So on Monday, the NFL's impartial judge, the former federal judge, Sue Robinson, announced her recommendation for Deshaun Watson would be a six-game suspension with no fines. So in her longer description of her findings, she basically said she found him guilty, that she believed that he had done all of the things that he had been accused of. But the relatively soft punishment is the result

of the fact that the NFL, at least in recent history, has been pretty soft on people doing some pretty bad things. So even though she believed that he had done quite a bit wrong, six games was the only punishment she felt made any sense based on precedent. Now, Roger Goodell can appeal for just a few hours more by the time most people hear this. He hasn't yet. If he appealed, he would be appealing to himself, which would create a whole bunch of controversies if he decided to tack on more games as most people on Twitter think he should. So Jeff, what's your reaction to all of this? And what do you think the commissioner should be doing right now?

So this process was bargained in the new CBA, right? It was determined that an independent arbitrator should be able to hear the cases and then determine whether or not there should be suspension for how long because for a long time, you know, players and the general public, I think, and I think even some NFL owners were upset with the way Roger Goodell has handled the punishment. We've talked about this a lot, Gabe. I'm sort of not for this kind of crime and punishment league, right? Like this idea that Goodell punishes players sometimes without great evidence, right? This is a little different because the evidence is kind of all there, right?

So as you mentioned, the NFL alleged three counts of violating the personal conduct policy, right? Conduct that qualifies as a sexual assault, conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person, and lastly, conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL. And Judge Sue Robinson agreed and sustained all three counts. So she said, and remember, the standard here is not the standard in a criminal court. We have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The standard is for a civil suit, essentially, right? Just one scintilla over 50%, and you're quote unquote guilty, right?

And so the judge found these things to be true. She also found and she said, you know, kind of the words that his behavior was what? It was some of the most egregious she's ever seen, or at least in the evidence that was brought forth by the NFL. in the evidence that was brought forth by the NFL. And, you know, she mentioned that, you know, his behavior, quote, was predatory. And all the things the NFL accused him of, she found to be true.

And then in giving the six games, she cited his kind of record in the community. She cited that this was a kind of a first offense however i can argue gabe that this is 30 offenses right if this had happened in consecutive years where like this came out now and then it came out you know break another whole batch of things came out he wouldn't be looked as a first-time offender so i disagree strong with the first-time offender considering again it's 30 women now the n the NFL only presented four, I believe, five cases to the judge, and four of them, they got interviews from the women. And then the judge concluded in her six

game suspension that this was the highest suspension ever given to a non-violent sexual misconduct in the NFL, like a player, right? And non-violence in porn there, right? That she's determined as non-violent. Now, I would argue, and people have done this that are much smarter than me about this, that this is violent, right? And that this is kind of undermining a lot of the points that she had made in her 16-page conclusion. And I just find it bizarre how you can conclude all these things are true, include that it's

predatory behavior, include that he was clearly, which I've said from the beginning, hitting up these women for sexual reasons, not anything to do with getting massages. How she can conclude that he needs to get massages only from team personnel moving forward, right? And then only give it six games because the NFL at times has been light on punishment. Now, six games is in the CBA, right? But you're also allowed to give more than six games.

Like that's not, you don't have to stick to just six games. And I understand she said, you know, the highest ever given to a non-violent, remember he wasn't charged, non-violent sexual assault. So the judge described the conduct as non-violent sexual conduct. But then in other parts of the document, she agreed with the NFL's assertion that he committed sexual assault. So the wording might change throughout the podcast, but that's kind of where we're at with what was determined by the judge. But Gabe, I just think this really falls short, man. Like you, the NFL proved all three counts.

Again, conduct that qualifies as sexual assault. The judge agreed with this. Conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well as a sexual assault. The judge agreed with this. Conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person. She agreed with this. And then, you know, the integrity of the NFL thing, I mean, sure. She agreed with that too. But that's obviously, there's many variations of what that actually means. But again, she concluded that conduct that defines sexual assault

and then only gave six games when we're seeing other players get suspended for other things longer than six games. And I get it. There are other rules in place. Like for example, where a lot of people talked about the Calvary really got a year of suspension.

It's in the CBA for a year. If you can count gambling. So I get that that's a lot, but that's in the CBA, right? So maybe moving forward, the players and owners need to put more suspension in time for any sexual assault allegations.

But nonetheless, I thought it was light. And I don't think because you might not have punished Ray Rice initially as hard as you should have, or Big Ben, or Ezekiel Elliott, like anyone else you want to mention here, I don't think that means you shouldn't punish Deshaun Watson more than six games. You can start a new precedent. You don't have to just stop at six games because that's what the CBA says.

You can do it more. And you can also appeal, and I think the NFL will appeal, to Roger Goodell. He'll make this a lot more. You know, they wanted a full year. They wanted definite suspension. The NFLPA wanted zero games. So they're not even in the middle. And I just don't see how you can consider yourself a league.

And again, I disagree with the idea of the way typically these go. But this was not done in the old way. This was not done by Roger Goodell in the NFL. It was done by an independent arbitrator who looked at all the information. And again, we come back to what she said. All of it's true. All of it's true. All of it's true. And just six games,

I don't really square with that, Gabe. And I think it's bizarre to read her findings. And again, I'm not saying she did a bad job. I'm just saying that I think it needs to be longer. I just don't know how you end up agreeing with all the things the NFL said he did and then only giving him six games. Well, okay, fair enough.

So let me pose this possibility. It sort of puts Goodell and the decision makers at the NFL in a bit of a box, right? Because essentially to do what the public wants, what common sense suggests, what you're saying, he should have a bigger punishment for this. And the NFL claims that's what they want. She's basically saying, fine, then acknowledge that you're changing your precedent, that your previous punishments weren't good enough. And moving forward, you are going to be stricter and do a better job of defining what violent and awful behavior is. And that six is not enough. You're saying so yourself, so get tougher. Is that perhaps why she did this? It's possible. And, you know, again,

she had mentioned, you know, some of the NFL has sometimes, you know, been pressured by the media to hand down suspensions and they've changed those suspensions based off of the pressure from the media. And you're 100% right. Like the inadequate discipline in the past definitely paved the way for her to give. Because again, she determined, I want to make this point clear. She determined this is nonviolent sexual assault, right? You can interpret that any way you want. She knows the facts.

We've seen some of them. Other people, again, people have made the point that probably violent okay but she determined again but in her mind this was the highest suspension the nfl has ever given to someone with a non-violent sexual assault right gabe so in her mind she is giving the most we've ever seen the nfl give in this situation and yeah maybe now you give them 12 games and that becomes a standard for nonviolent sexual assault. I hate saying that. Yes.

It's a gross thing to say, but it probably will force them to redefine that. Excuse me. It was nonviolent sexual conduct. I think when you use the word assault and nonviolent, that's such a contradiction. It was nonviolent sexual conduct is what she put it down as. But again, she found him kind of guilty of sexual assault. So, right. Like if she, if she found him guilty of conduct as sexual assault, but then she said it's nonviolent sexual conduct, it's all, it's confusing and bizarre. It's. Yeah. I think, listen, I think it's, it's legalese and it doesn't make a lot of sense to most average readers. Let me ask you this question, Jeff, because you were involved with the union when you were a player. You understand these complicated issues with unions. Let me ask you a very basic question.

role in general and the importance of unions across many industries in this country. Why would a union who can credibly fight for all kinds of good things for all the majority of players, and they should as a counterbalance to the owners, why would a union want to defend something like this? Why would they take this position? Why not just hang one guy out to dry every now and then? It's a bad representation of who they are they they do this for procedural reasons right because the next time that there is a um you know a suspension looming or player gets accused of of sexual assault uh sexual misconduct um and maybe it's not as bad as the sean watson right maybe it's it's nothing they Deshaun Watson, right? Maybe it's nothing. They want to say like, well, this is the press that you set, right? You gave three games.

Let's just say it's six games now. But let's say they wanted nothing, right? Let's just say they got nothing. And the next time you say, well, you gave Deshaun Watson nothing. He had 30 cases presented before you. This guy has one, and it's not even close to what Deshaun Watson is being accused of. You gave Deshaun zero, or you gave Deshaun you give you should give the next guy two or three right like that it's a proceed that's why when they've sued they've done the past with Tom Brady they sued

with Ezekiel Elliott I think is that it's a procedural issue like you give Tom Brady four games for a equipment malfunction the CBA says five thousand dollar fine so they're just trying to it's a procedural issue with the CBA. And that's why, by the way, if Goodell, so if Goodell appeals to himself and gives more games, they're 100% going to sue him. It's going to happen. And in that time, they're probably going to get an injunction and John Walsh will actually start the season. Remember, Brady didn't get suspended for deflategate until the next season because of all the court cases pending, right? Like they gave him an injunction.

He played that entire season after Deflategate, then came back and was suspended the first four games of the following season. So he won't play immediately while this gets sorted out in the courts. The NFL has never lost a case regarding player discipline because they have the ultimate say. It's in the CBA. Roger Goodell is the final say in player discipline. And I've seen the argument that they do not want to sue,

excuse me, the NFL doesn't want the NFLPA or just how much to sue because then it's going to open up discovery about owners not being punished for other things. Yes and no, right? It had nothing really to do with this, unfortunately. It doesn't. But two is the cba doesn't really define punishment for the ownership it says you know if they determine that they violate the

conduct policy personal conduct policy they can be fined or suspended but they also as of today right got steven ross i don't know if they ever find robert crapp but they have in the past daniel snyder i'm not quite sure if he's ever i think he's been fined right before maybe not by Steven Ross. I don't know if they ever find Robert Kraft, but they have in the past. Daniel Snyder, I'm not quite sure if he's ever – I think he's been fined, right, before. Maybe not by the NFL, but I think it's hard to make that – I don't think the NFL is worried about that. I'll put it like that. They're not worried about going to court and having this being brought up

because it's a non-story to this specific thing. In the CBA, it says – the players negotiated this with the ownership. It says Roger has the final say in this. Go to court all you want. You're going to lose. And you can bring up all these other things. You're still going to lose. And again, we know the Daniel Snyder stuff.

We know the Stephen Ross stuff now. We already know these things. So you can go after the NFL for not punishing Robert Kraft. Not the same thing, of course. We talked about this before, maybe not here, but on the radio. So I don't think the NFL is afraid of being sued if they increase this to eight or 10 or 12 games. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me, let me bring up the way that the Browns handled it. Right. So, you know, obviously it makes it so gross, even worse. All of this started before the Browns decided to make a big move to bring him in and structure the deal the way that they did. And there was a lot of blowback for them. So then they come out with their statement after, you know, after the suspension gets handed down and they say, quote, we know Deshaun is remorseful that this situation has caused so much heartache.

We will continue to support him. Now, immediately, a lot of people, you and others, jumped on. Do we know that he's remorseful? In fact, he seemed to say completely the opposite. He's been denying that he's done anything wrong, that he's assaulted anyone, harassed anyone, disrespected anyone, forced anyone to do anything. He who knows how he feels privately, but he hasn't outwardly said he's remorseful. So why are the Browns taking this position and why throw in this wording? They said that they're also sorry that this was triggering for anyone.

Because they're the Browns. I mean, it's that simple. I mean, it's just idiotic communications. It's just a very insensitive statement, right? And I don't know what the right statement would be because he's their quarterback, right? And, you know, they – I believe that in the conclusion, really in the 16-page document from Sue Robinson, she said that he showed no remorse for his actions. So to say that in the statement is just not even true.

The triggered part bothers me so much. You know, that word has only been around for like six years in the context we use it, right? I think it's about, right? 2016 is kind of about when that happened. It's a terrible freaking word. And it's for typically for like, you know, minuscule things. Like I'd say Tom Brady and I trigger Gabe into being upset.

Not for this instance, right? Not talking about the women here who have credible allegations of sexual assault determined by the judge, by the way, to be credible. And, you know, again, not criminally, right? We know that. But just in this specific situation, in this case, she determined that the evidence was there. Um, and so to come out and say that he's remorseful, he's not, um, and that, you know, the triggering

part, it's so condescending, dude. It's just, it's, it's just very Browns. Um, and you know, my, my brother has brought this up. I'll give him credit about this. The Brown structure of the contract for Deshaun Watson continues to kind of be part of this, right? Is that, yes, they gave him a small base salary for this season. He got a $45 signing bonus, a small base salary. Everyone does that in year one, a small base salary for this season. He got $45 signing bonus, a small base salary. Everyone does that in year one. A small base salary.

That's part of it. But what typically happens is in your contract, if you get suspended, everything gets voided. All your guarantees get voided. And it's part of the deal. And the Browns took that clause out of the Sean Watson's contract. Because right now, the Browns would say, in normal, 99% of the NFL, Jeff Schwartz can get suspended.

I've guaranteed money. You're out of here, buddy. You're gone. I'm not paying you no more. But the Browns protected, A, his money by giving him a short base salary, that's your $1 million. So he got paid last year to not play football, and he's only going to lose $330,000 now-ish,

and he keeps all his guaranteed money. It's really just grimy and slimy, and I don't like what the Browns, I mean, the Browns have a lot of, and they're trying to explain it, but they have a lot of, this is on them a lot, dude. Like, this is, it's, again, you also gave him, you know,

a hundred and, not a hundred, but like $70 million more guaranteed than any other quarterback, knowing these were pending. Like, dude, it's bad. The Browns have, it's gross what they did, man. And I know a lot of fans feel that way. But in the end, I do think Goodell will appeal to himself to increase the suspension. They'll be sued. Watson will probably play this year,

and then next year he'll be suspended for half the season because, again, they're going to win the lawsuit. Just walk me through that last bit real slow. You're saying the appeal comes that defers the suspension as he appeals. No, no, no. Goodell will appeal to himself. Okay. He will then decide it's eight games.

Right. They will then sue. And while the lawsuit is happening, typically they've been, you know, in the past, granted an injunction, which means basically everything like stops and he can play. That's what happened to Tom Brady in Deflategate. So I think what's going to happen is he'll sue. Once Goodell will appeal on himself, he'll increase the games.

Watson, PA will sue. The judge will say, okay, injunction. And Watson will play until this gets resolved whenever the court case gets resolved. Yeah, no, I follow. That seems like a weird set of incentives then. Because then it's just deferring when Watson isn't playing. So let me pose this and people have had some wild conspiracy theories or crazy ideas here. Let me just state the facts. The Browns schedule for the first six games is pretty damn easy.

I don't have the exact teams in front of me, but ranked easiest in the NFL. One game versus a team projected to have a winning record, only two road games. Warren could probably get out of that stretch with a decent backup, keeping them in it. And then if Watson is what we remember him to be, they're still very much alive in the AFC when it matters. So is there some argument to be said to just, you know, swallow the pill, just move on, take the six, shut up, do the time, get back on the team, repair your image over time and win some football games. Well, they're not going to take the six because if you mean Goodell doesn't decide to do anything. I mean, if Goodell chooses not to do anything more about this. Yeah, no, the PA had said they're not going to, they're not going to appeal any decision. So basically it just comes down to the next 24 hours of what Roger Goodell wants to do.

And we'll be talking about this again next week. So unless there's more here, I'll, I'll shift us to Tom Brady, Steven Ross, and this, the Finn's gate is insane. This is a little bit lighter. So,

um, yeah, we can probably get to that. I guess. Well, it's lighter in the sense that it's, you know, it's not involving sexual assault.

So that's, I think obviously it doesn't involve real victims. This is, but in terms of like weirdness and penalties, it's definitely it's definitely really it's a big story. mainly because I am psychotic, but we were all over it when these rumors and sort of connecting dots about Tom Brady was trying to get himself over to the Dolphins and maybe Steven Ross and other people in the front office were reaching out to him when they shouldn't have been. And this all tied in with the Brian Flores story.

Well, the NFL investigation has discovered that for sure the Dolphins were tampering in trying to recruit Tom Brady while he was under contract in New England and Tampa. Both times or multiple times that they reached out to Brady, they did it in a way that is not allowed. They then did the same thing with Sean Payton more recently in trying to get him to come over and be the coach. Proven fact, tampering. So for that, they get a big penalty. They lose a first-round pick next year, a third-round pick the following year. The owner, who is a $8.2 billion heir, is fined $1.5 million

and suspended for a few games this season. I don't even know what it means to suspend an owner. But what's interesting is while they were proven to have tampered in all that brady payton stuff they were not proven to have intentionally tanked games the way that brian flores and this suit alleged so remember coach flores says that stephen ross the owner offered him a hundred thousand dollars to lose games when he was the head coach there trying to be a winner he didn't lose the games they won the games quite a few of them actually and he found himself out of a job and then he later filed a suit this this says there's no proof that they tanked because they

actually won a few games and that the hundred thousand dollar offer was a joke i have no idea how they came to that conclusion, but they're not being penalized for tanking. They're only being penalized for tampering. Is this even more ridiculous than the way that the whole other situation we just discussed is being handled? Like what the hell kangaroo court is going on here? All right. So they determined the dolphins had impermissible communications with tom brady in 19 and 20 was under contract with the patriots they begin in august of 19 continue through the season um and these um these were uh communications with i believe one of their attorneys it was not

with mr ross it was with a Mr. Beal. That's who he spoke with. Yeah, who's good friends with Brady, apparently. The Dolphins then talked to Brady again in 2021 when he was under contract with the Buccaneers. And those focused on Brady being a limited partner in the Dolphins and possibly serving as a football executive.

Then also in January of 2022, they contacted Sean Payton about serving as Miamiami uh dolphins head coach before he retired and they did not ask for consent from the saints to do this so you know they found those all to be true but then found the other one not to be true um haha just kidding about tanking i absolutely think that he offered him money to tank after reading all of this being true and so far everything that has been said has been true I think that he probably was like

it was one of those things where it's like a wink wink like I don't want you to lose games but if you do I won't say no to losing even though it is odd to try to tank and then get Tom Brady like I don't know that seems odd but nonetheless yeah I totally think he won't say no to losing, even though it is odd to try to tank and then get Tom Brady. Like, I don't know. It seems odd. But nonetheless, yeah, I totally think it wasn't a joke. But I don't think that they can prove it wasn't a joke.

That's the important part here, right, Gabe? Like, they can't prove it was serious, right? Like, if no one else was in the room and no one else will corroborate it, it's probably, and there's no written, nothing written about it, written down, probably hard to conclude it,

that it, that it, you know, that it wasn't a joke, I guess that that's my feeling on what this ended up being. But even though we, I think we both believe that he meant it, but it's hard to,

to, to, to prove, to, to really come out and say that we have an NFL team who purposely offered to pay their coach to lose games. If you don't have proof, like actual hard evidence of that happening, I understand the NFL saying like, yeah, it didn't actually happen. Because that's, we talk about integrity of the game, right?

And how the NFL cares a lot about that. That's why Calvin Ridley got a year. Deshaun Watson only got six games. It's one of the reasons why. This is integrity of the game issue. And I think they would not levy that against anyone unless they had actual proof he did it. Now, they're saying it's a joke.

But hold on. But Jeff, let me jump in. Proving that he did it would mean that coach went along with it and they lost the games. This only came to light because coach said, I'm not doing that and won the games, thus proving they didn't tank. But like, intent was to tank from the owner. Right. But I think there's plenty of intent to tank from plenty of owners, but they don't pay the coaches to do that, right? They don't like outright say, we're going to pay you to lose. But again, I think that if you're going, if you're the NFL, if you're going to make this accusation and say it happened, you need to have more than

one instance where the coach said it was told to him, right? I'm just, I'm telling you how the NFL is thinking. I think it happened. You think it happened, but it would be hard for the NFL to say you tried to basically fix the game, right? You fixed the game based off of one conversation you had with their coach one time. I understand your point. I'm going to read Brian Flores' words today. Yes, please. In response to all of this. Flores says, quote, I'm disappointed to learn the investigator minimized Mr. Ross's offers and pressure to tank games, especially when I wrote and submitted a

letter to Dolphins executives documenting my serious concerns regarding this subject at the time, which the investigator now has in her possession. It took serious balls on Brian Flores' part to bring all of this up. He's been essentially proven right. And all that there is like, no, they didn't write the text. They're not as dumb as some people in politics right now. And literally writing the text saying 100 grand for a loss.

Credit to Stephen Ross. He's a better guy covering his tracks than some dopes in charge places. But that's what he wanted. I agree with you. I agree that that's what he wanted. I'm telling you how the NFL looks at this. Coincidentally,

he got the same suspension that deshaun watson did which is six games um which yeah that's another one that it's still like pointed out till it's still just it blows my mind dude it just it's still the six game thing still is gonna and i don't know if it's a year of the right suspension for watson or eight games or 12 games six Six just seems way too light. Yeah. Well, not to like pile on Tom Brady any further as the bitter Jets fan that I have always been. And we've spent too much time on this show, me whining about him.

So I don't mean to take us to therapy session. But like, you know, there is a bit of a pattern here of like the rules not applying and you know maybe he doesn't think he did anything wrong or maybe this kind of thing is common i think you might tell me uh that well these conversations do happen all the time and nobody really follows those tampering rules but when you're talking about the biggest star in the game event trying to orchestrate a takeover of a team and like in an unprecedented manner directly with the owner or his lawyer like that's a pretty big deal i i feel like maybe people didn't think that the balls being deflated was a big deal or brady's fault maybe people didn't think that the cameras on the practice

fields was a big deal or brady's fault but like it seems like there's always something going on i mean it's certainly fair to say that with with him um i definitely agree that it feels like you know at times um you know that the rules kind of don't apply to brady but in this specific instance it might be happening all the time i don't know i would imagine that the tampering happens more than we think. But there's no penalty for this for the player. There really never, ever is. I just don't know what would you spend Tom Brady for? Like taking a phone call from the Dolphins? I'm not sure you can.

I know. I mean, listen, I don't know what – and in his situation – it's rare for me to even try to jump in his shoes and understand his point of view. But what do you do? Some guy calls you and says, want to take a meeting? We got an offer for view. But what do you get? Like, what do you do? Some guy calls you and says, want to take a meeting?

I, we got an offer for you. Like, I don't know what you're supposed to do. Hang up the phone and report it to the FBI. Like, I think you just sort of try to politely hear people out and then say, all right guys,

you know, I'm not doing that. Or I'm focused on this team. And I'm, I'm not accusing Brady of doing anything worse than that, but it's just strange that people felt they could approach him with this and that it seems like it got further along than just like two guys talking at a bar well I think I wonder is how far did this get it doesn't say how far it got obviously got far enough where they were going to do this right so maybe that's the answer right

there um but I also don't know how much how much was Brady involved like how much would they like do you want to do this? And he's like, all right, cool. Like talk to me when it's done type of thing, which I mean, there are plenty of times in my business where people approach me with ideas. I'm like, just let me know when it's done. Right? It's not tampering, obviously. But just let me know when it's done or when it's my time to enter the conversation.

I would assume he has people to work on the details until it's time for him to know what right so in that instance i he did technically really nothing wrong all right so losing the pick i mean the the owner getting fined and suspended who cares whatever right he can't possibly be relevant but losing the pick seems like it matters especially after the dolphins so effectively stockpiled a bunch of them everyone Everyone's hot on them, you know, on the field. Well, they're all hot on each other. What do we think about the Dolphins? Does this matter?

Well, it matters because this is an evaluation year for Tua and a brand-new coach as well. And there was thought that they would use these picks. They have multiple first-rounders, I believe, next year to trade up to get a quarterback or be in a position to do that. Now you have one less first rounder. So you're probably not going to be able to, I mean, I guess if you want to do it, you certainly can, you know, move up,

but it was, it's not as easy now to make that happen. No, I mean, I don't, I don't know what happens with their team. I suspect they're bottom of the division. Well, no, the jets will be bottom of the division, but I don't think they're a playoff team. Does this help Brian Flores over the long haul? Like, does this vindicate him somewhat

for people to see all of this and go, oh yeah, this organization's a mess? But the NFL said that like, that the part that he accused him of is not true. So does it help him out? I mean, yes,

that we look at the Dolphins and say, yeah, I think the part that helps him out is more than anything else. The NFL found all the tampering stuff to be true, and everyone's like, well, that's true. Then the other thing is probably true as well. That's what helps him out. That's what I'm saying.

I think any other team that was like, I don't know, but Flores, maybe they thought for whatever reason he was not describing the situation fairly. And now you see the situation, you're like, his description looks about 95% right. I think maybe we give him the benefit of the doubt. He was obviously a great coach. The team didn't even want him to win, and he got his players to win.

No, and yeah, I don't know. But I don't know in the sense of where, I guess, public perception, I guess. But I think a lot of us believe some of what he said was absolutely true. So there was something that I think if you already didn't believe, if you already didn't believe like that this was true, you probably don't now. If you believe some of it, maybe that helps you believe more of it. Yeah. This one stinks like most of the political news that we have been reading for the last few years. There's a lot of similarities to the way certain

people do things. Let's stay in the division and move to get on the field a little bit. Another weird story, even less controversial, but sort of silly, and I need your take. So Josh Allen, who's definitely feeling himself, and people are like basically handing him an MVP already, feeling himself and people are like basically handing him an MVP already. Pick the fight with a six foot six defensive tackle on his own team. I've never heard of something like this happening before. Little squabbles amongst guys trying to make the team sure. Franchise quarterbacks fighting defensive tackles. Don't remember a time that's happened. Can you make some kind of an argument that this is a good thing in Buffalo? So Josh Allen fighting Phillips. So Phillips like lightly shoved him, right? They ran like a red zone drill. They're in pads. He ran a draw and kind of lightly shoved

them. I kind of thought the overreaction on Allen's side was interesting. I don't know. He's a little, he's just fiery. That's what he is. I don't know he's a little he's just fiery that's what he is i don't think it means anything to anything in the future but i was i never i think i think did cam get in a fight one year at practice i feel like but that's about it like i quarterbacks just don't get a lot of fights okay well this this you know hank is back he's back in the saddle and he came with some deep internet research okay and he found an account that says, a Sean McDermott defender getting into a fight with a big, fast, and strong star quarterback in training camp.

The Bills are going to the Super Bowl, and he shows a picture of Cam doing this with the Panthers back when he took them to the Super Bowl. I guess this happened with practice at their training camp. So, I mean, I can't see a world where this is a good thing, but football players are weird. Do you ever been in a fight in training camp? Yes.

Really? Have you told us that story? So here's what it is. So I'm not big into fighting during camp. I feel like it's tiring enough. But in my last year in Carolina, I wasn't playing well we had a new offensive line coach and um i ended up being that my my hips were messed i ended up having two hip surgeries um but i knew that he liked us to fight it's kind of the old mentality not many coaches

want actually most coaches tell you not i feel like it was a segment of hard knocks every year for 15 years yeah but it's really it's not it's just not anymore it's not the game but nonetheless okay so i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna get it i'm gonna fight today and um so yeah i dan connor one of our linebackers i shoved him late after the play and it was a huge fight and then in the fight i got tackled from behind and my helmet popped off and someone hit me like square in the face while i was on the ground basically i had this like cut over my eye but my coach loved it so hooray i fought yay it's just a waste of everyone's time do you think guys will ever like are you and dan friends now we were fine yeah no no there's no one there's no like lingering after effects you find the feeling that's the end of it do you think that guys will ever like what if you're like sort of a savvy guy?

Maybe you're sort of a bubble guy. Do you think that the two guys will ever be like, hey, man, I'm kind of an edge guy. I got to show like I got a little extra heart. You know, what do you say? We like kind of scrap a little. I'll pull on your face mask. You kind of pull me to the ground. We'll yell and MF each other and then we'll break it up.

You think we should do that just to show coach? It does not help you make the roster. Doesn't help. No. Most coaches, okay, there's so much, there's limited time out of practice. Most coaches do not want you to take time out of practice to fight, especially when guys start punching each other in the helmet with their hands.

That's how you break hands. It's not good. Okay, let's go even dumber then. A lot of people have seen this. It's a podcast, so it's a little difficult. But video on Twitter bouncing around. I think NFL Network was at Rams camp. And what we think we saw was Aaron Donald calling over some other guy.

I think he was an offensive lineman. And he basically, like, like said come over here then he put his one hand around his neck and sort of like shook him by the neck while he sort of sidestepped it looked like he was just using him as some sort of a dummy um i don't know if i'm describing that correctly but have you ever seen that and what drill is that so um it's just something he pulled up as a rookie to do i will tell you though that um when i – my second year in the NFL, I was dressed on game days. I was practicing my first year.

And Jordan Gross, our left tackle, before he went in the game, he liked to hit someone's pads. And he would always choose me to do. Dude, he would blast me. It hurt so bad. I hated – he would just like three times, bop, bop, bop. I was like,

he would like cripple my chest when he did that every time. Oh, it hurt so bad. Just crippling pain in my chest. I've been that guy before. Not fun. Okay. What makes you the guy

that somebody else wants to hit? Just that you're a nice guy? No, there's only two other backups that are dressed and I just was the one that he chose to hit. Probably size,'re only that you're a nice guy. No, there were, there's only two other backups that are dressed and I just was the one that he chose to hit. Probably size, probably were the same height-ish. It was just made sense.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause you're, you're a really big guy, so you could probably take it, but you're also a really nice guy. So you're not likely to like overreact and take it the wrong way. Yeah. You're a good fit for that. Yeah.

Okay. Um, well, speaking of big, nice guys and a good time that we had, it's time to play our over-under game and reveal our guest of honor at our Topgolf Championship last week. So let's get into that and a few other quick topics. We've eaten up a lot of time already, but we'll do a few more quickies on the other side of a break. Sound good?

Yes. All right, Jeff, we're back jeff schwartz is smarter than you uh you proved that in the first block now let's get a little dumber if people are still listening i think they could use a few sillier topics so first off you predicted that uh our foursome at top golf you predicted our rankings now i didn't want to reveal who our guest was in case, you know, he had other plans or he didn't want it out there. So we played Topgolf with me, you, Matt from this show, and Mike Golick, Jr., our buddy who has his own show now,

but everyone knows him from his ESPN days. So Mike was a great guy, came out. The four of us played Topgolf. You predicted Ford would be the worst easily and then me you and golic would come in in some order and you you assumed that since i play a little bit more golf i might be number one yes but we weren't sure and you were uh and i i know and i was but i believe that golic had like the nice, he looked the best. Oh, by far.

He had the nicest looking. Oh, yeah. He hit some bombs, but just wasn't in that back net. Poor Matt Ford. Just not. He was bad. He had like two points and just gave up in the last one. I had some bad ones.

Now, the scoring was odd, dude. I didn't get the scoring. The first game, I think we played with some weird scoring systems. But it was fun. I could see why people go there. You did not drink as much as I thought you would. I was a little surprised by that. You made it seem like you were going to have a rager.

I mean, it was 10.30 in the morning, and I had two Bloody Marys and went to work. So I feel like I held up my end of the bargain. How was the all-hands meeting afterwards? Yeah, I made it through the all-hands meeting. I mean, you're right. I wasn't like chugging beers, but I was a little more aggressive than usual on a Thursday. But food was good. It was a cool little set up there in El Segundo.

And so it was fun. I could see why people like Topgolf. Yeah, me too. I just think they got to work on the scoring. Because it'd be like if you went bowling and you hit six pins and they were like, no, that's worth eight this time. It has to be equal something. That does not make sense.

Correct. Yeah. All right. A few more football topics for you. Over under 40% chance OBJ signs with the Bills. This is based on an Andreed instagram post that seemed to be suggesting that might happen i think it could happen i don't think he goes to a cold i okay i think that he could go to the bills at the end of the season possibly but i just don't

think that's well he's not going to be ready for several points he doesn't want to go to buffalo for a whole year yeah okay i mean i think odell's gonna go ring chasing i mean he's got a ring but why not do it again right so he's gonna go wherever i can get him the ring and get him the ball so buffalo could be a spot okay but you think if if he can go to tampa for instance you know somebody goes down in tampa and he can sign there tampa he's going there oh kansas green Bay, any one of these contenders, um, over under 80%,

80% of players hate wearing these new guardian caps. I don't really even understand what they are. I, um, I, I, I asked some friends recently about this, that play,

um, and they say they don't even notice them. So they're supposed to help reduce contact to the head. Um, they're wearing them at full pads too. So I don't know. I think, uh, you know, whatever, whatever data says, the players do not care. It doesn't bother them at all. Okay.

So that's just people like JJ Watt whining about it on Twitter and because he loves to tweet all kinds of stuff? Yes. Okay. All right. This one seems like a little bit more credible. And I saw your boy Big Cat post about this. I've seen some deep dive fantasy analysis.

Coffee? Is this about coffee? No, no, no. He likes to post about that too. No, this is the Call of Duty curse. All right. You would have thought it was Cliff Kingsbury's fault. But here's the interesting fact.

Every year when the new edition of Call of Duty comes out, that statistically is a tipping point in Kyler Murray's performance. Now, we know because of this whole fiasco with his contract that there's a bit of concern about how much time he spends gaming instead of studying tape. So after the new Call of Duty comes out every year, I think it's typically in October, there's a pretty steady decline in his performance. And people are wondering if maybe that's because he's playing too many levels on Call of Duty. Do you think there's some truth to this? 25% chance Call of Duty is the problem with Kyler Murray? Sounds like it. I mean, if that's, you know, I still

can't believe they had to put that in there, man. This is not good. Man, that's crazy. It's starting French's quarterback had to have in there. You need to study more please. This is, I think definitely, this has to be true. If it's on the internet, it's true. Okay.

Here's a guy who's probably – I don't want to make a joke here, but he's probably kind of happy that all this other awful stuff with Watson is going on. So Alvin Kamara has kind of had a rough offseason or caused himself a rough offseason with some things he's been accused of. So over under three-and-a-half game game suspension for him whatever is going on with him it's been pretty quiet in the national media but he's not in the clear yet three and a half games um what isn't he's accused of of like beating someone right like yeah it's not good yeah so over three i think the details are a little unclear still. I don't want to be unfair to anyone involved, but it didn't sound great when we first heard about it.

And then really very little discussion about it since. He reportedly skipped a court date yesterday. It's a battery case. Yeah. The hearing keeps getting pushed back. Oh, sorry. He's facing a misdemeanor charge of conspiracies to commit battery and a felony charge of battery resulting in substantial bodily harm um i think he beat someone up yeah

is the allegation um so yeah not good i would say over three and a half games then interesting well that i mean just to make it about football or even just about fantasy football that, that's going to impact where people want to take him this year. My son wants to play fantasy football. By the way, my son wants to play fantasy football with me this year. Get him in. Yeah. Get him in. Maybe we got enough people behind the scenes here these days to make a whole league.

Get your son in our league. Let's do it. Let's see if he can beat Hank. Oh, easily. All right. Here's another one for fantasy football fans. So the Debo contract saga finally ended. So he's, uh, being paid like a wide receiver and a running back. He's getting bonuses for running back stats, even though, you know, the team is

paying them as a top tier wide receiver. So over under four and a four and a half teams who copy what the Niners did and try to find their own version of Debo. Oh, it's going to be under because you just, he's just special. Like you can't find like Tyreek Hill, these special players. Like you just, you can't find these players that can do multiple things for you. You can replace them again with multiple pieces pieces but you can't find new ones typically very often they're like like a debo and to the scheme that the niners run helps him do this and again this is not a scheme it was it's shanahan's offense i get it but you know i just think there's

only a certain number of teams that can even do this and you're not going to find another debo samuel it'd be it'd be stupid to try to do this. And some teams have like Tom Montgomery and Cordell Patterson. It's not the same. Well, his stats go up or down if it's Trey Lance all season. His stats go down. Really? Hmm. I don't like hearing that.

Over under 25% chance, Tom Brady forces your brother out of retirement the next time he loses a veteran lineman. The only loss they're sending so far, they reported today that the right tackle. Got a scare with Tristan Wirfs this week. It was cramps. We know Jensen's out. It was cramps. I know, but it was scary for a minute there.

No, Mitch is not. Mitch is not. He's not retiring. Tom Brady forces people to do things. He's not going to force your brother? He's very retired. Tom Brady calls Mitch. Very retired.

He sees that number come up. He doesn't just want to hear what Tom Brady has to say. He might talk to him, but he's not coming back. Tom Brady says, hey, man, come play with me in Miami. Mitch is getting ready to do a podcast with me one day. He's preparing. That's the question. What would he rather do?

Play lineman for Tom Brady or be co-host with Jeff Schwartz? Probably lineman for Tom Brady. That's a good with Jeff Schwartz? Probably lineman for Tom Brady. That's a good head-to-head. Yeah, probably lineman. All right. Liv Golf offered apparently $700 million to Tiger Woods. He turned it down. Over under 0.0001% chance you'd turn down any job paying that money from anywhere.

Doesn't the Liv Tour need a podcast to cover the the tour like what what i don't know throw a couple million in my direction i might be in you want to just set aside all morals that we have forget ethics just get in there and cover it no um i mean for 800 million geez whoo um yeah i mean a lot of guys are forgetting all that right um so i would i'd be hard to turn 800 million did you play the mega millions by the way last week it was like a one point something billion why not i did i didn't win well for one thing i'm in london at the time but oh yeah if i won i could just fly out each week to do the podcast in person on my private plane that's true yeah good but then you'd get podcast in person on my private plane. That's true. Yeah. Good.

But then you'd get shamed for having a private plane. That's not hip anymore, Jeff. Well, when you fly three minutes, it's not hip. Yeah. Yeah. This one's in here because Hank is back and this is for Hank. So Soto traded to the Padres. Padres making moves. So over under 15% chance Hank hasn't jumped in front of a bus during this

record. The amount of players the Nationals have traded, like good players since their World Series as well. That's Scherzer and Turner and Soto. They just are just fire sailing these guys. It's wild. I mean, this is the most significant package you might have traded in MLB history.

23-year-old on on a Hall of Fame trajectory. Crazy, man. So you think Hank has stepped in front of the bus is what you're saying? Yes. Okay. It's going to be hard to put this rundown together if he does that. Kenny Pickett, only quarterback taken in the first round, is apparently already a bust. Over under.5 rookie quarterbacks win a game as a starter this season.

I feel like you're either great or terrible. Those are your two reports. I would say over. One quarterback will win a game this season, one rookie quarterback. I am predicting Desmond Ritter sees the field sooner than most. I like Marcus Mariota. I actually, I think he's better than he's ever been given credit for. But he's getting kind of old and he seems like the kind of guy who could get popped, you know, as soon as he leaves the pocket.

And so Ritter might step in there and who the hell knows? You know, he's got some weapons. One rookie will win a game this year. Okay. All right, last one. Winning time apparently is looking for Kurt Rambis. They say in a post that our buddy Jeff Perlman shared that you need to be 6'2 or taller. You need to be between 20 and 30.

That could be a problem. And you need to have some basketball experience, no acting experience needed. So you're a pretty big guy, pretty good athlete. You might have to fake your age a little bit because you're over 30, but do you think he could play Kurt Rambis? Oh, for sure. I'd crush this Kurt Rambis.

Yeah? Get the rec specs or whatever? Rec specs. I'd rock the rec specs. Oh, yeah, I'd be a great Kurt Rambis. Yeah? Get the Rex specs or whatever? Rex specs. I'd rock the Rex specs. Oh, yeah. I'd be a great Kurt Rambis. Well, I think I'd like to see you try. This post has been bouncing around the internet.

I know of a few people who are legitimately going to try out for some of the other roles. Byron Scott is another role. James Worthy. Robert Parrish. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Good for them.

So we'll see if any of our friends end up in the next season of Winning Time. Great show. Best watch of the year so far. Agreed. Love it. Fantastic. Jeff, anything else we forgot to cover? We've gone on a journey today, haven't we? We sure have. Yeah, we sure have. No, no, but we are getting close to being

back to full-time schedule. Next week, we will start our previews for the season. We're going to go two divisions per week like we did last year. We made some money last year in our futures. Matt will be back. We'll do all that. So, we're getting close to the season, man. I have the under, by the way, in the Hall of Fame game, under 30 and a half on Thursday night.

Make sure to take that. And, yeah, I'm excited for football. It's like back. I'm going to watch every snap of that game on Thursday. Why not? Because it's football. I can do that. And we're back.

Off and rolling. So hopefully you enjoyed the show. Please rate, review, subscribe. And we'll talk to you next week. Take care, everybody.