Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Drafting From Home, 'Gambling' on Tua & Michael Vick's HOF Chances

Episode Date: April 7, 2020

A week further into our social distancing offseason, Geoff & Gabe bring you the latest on 2020 NFL Draft, perceived slights in Tua Tagovailoa's game and how a couple running quarterbacks might fare in Canton. Goodell confirms isolated draft plans: (1:36) Tua vs. Herbert: (16:35) Lamar Jackson, Michael Vick & the Hall of Fame: (29:10) 'Move the Line' Betting Segment: (36:47) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

from the athletic i'm jeff schwartz the nfl draft is going to look a lot like a fantasy draft two is apparently a gamble now for the dolphins and is michael vick a first ballot hall of famer it's tuesday april 7th and this is jeff schwartz is smartly welcoming everyone to the wonderful program glad we can can be around now. Glad we can talk about the NFL, which is continuing as usual. And today, by the way, for the first time, mostly because we miss personal interactions. Gabe and I are doing this via Skype.

So if we mention what one of us is wearing or what our great beards that we're growing out or Gabe's gray in his beard, that's because we just needed some human contact. So we're we're doing this via Skype yeah and you you did a costume change you had a beautiful shirt on that I thought was very intentional and then all of a sudden boom you switched this is a nice shirt as well but I liked what you were wearing previously the audience will never see the troll job of your first t-shirt no they they will not see the troll job of that um but uh look i i was under the

impression that maybe none of this is getting out but then i was told that maybe a slim portion this might get out so i've i've done i've done a put a new t-shirt on i did my hair as much as i could my hair game by the way is growing now below my ears for the first time since i had i used to have long hair like down to my back and And it is now no longer that long. And I kind of like it. I'm not going to lie. I'm going to grow my hair out till this is over. Grow my beard out till this is over.

I love the stay at home life right now. Well, you are not alone, my friend, because the NFL is all about that stay at home life. So I'm going to get us right into right into our first topic. So according to a memo Commissioner Goodell sent out on Monday, the NFL draft will be done entirely remotely in a fully virtual format. That means the commissioner, the draftees, the hosts, the analysts, all the guys we're used to on the draft, they're all going to be at their own homes. They will not be at team facilities, which was rumored, talked about, considered. They're all closed. So that means the GMs, the scouts, the coaches, talked about, considered, they're all closed. So that means

the GMs, the scouts, the coaches, the owners, whoever would be in that war room together yelling about who to pick. Now they'll just be yelling to put yourself on mute, right? Jeff, forget about the viewers for a second. I actually think this is going to be kind of fun to watch. I think this will be a different experience. It's nice to break it up a little bit. Talk to me about the differences this is going to make for the teams, the personnel making picks. I want to know what it's like to go from a war room to a war zoom. What's going to go wrong? Oh, very clever there. I like that. So basically we all see the war rooms, right? We all see the cameras. We all see what it looks like, but in the war room, the general manager

and the pro personnel guy are the two guys making a lot of decisions. There's scouts in there. There's maybe a coach or two. There's the owner, obviously. There's medical personnel. But in the end, everyone has come up with a board. They've ranked players. They obviously figure out where other teams are taking players.

And so they go kind of by this idea of here's our board. Here's where we rank guys. And then also here's what we need. Here's what other teams have done. And so it go kind of by this idea of here's our board, here's where we rank guys. And then also here's what we need. Here's what other teams have done. And so it's a process, right? And that process should already have been completed by now. Now, it's tougher to set the board if you're not really together, okay? Obviously, it's easier when you're in the room and you're able to talk about certain guys.

So teams that have been more organized, teams that have veteran scouts, teams that have done more background work in the fall and haven't maybe relied on pro day stuff, are going to be more prepared for this. Teams that have streamlined approaches, which is really no different, I guess, than when you're doing this regularly. But I think it's even just a little bit more of an emphasis on teams being streamlined.

So general manager is going to be in his house with his Zoom. The So general manager is going to be in his house with his Zoom. The Pope Purcell is going to be in his house with his Zoom. Everyone else will probably be muted. And then look, if they need to talk to a scout, hey, what do you think about this guy, a coach? Just call him, I would imagine, or Zoom him, whatever you want to do. But that interaction is not very long. I do not think the draft will be much different in the first or second day, which are the top three rounds. I mean, your board is set. It's not very long. I do not think the draft will be much different in the first or second day,

which are the top three rounds, right? I mean, your board is set. It's not very hard. You have your first round, you know, in the first round, if you're a team, you have your draft board set up. There's no conversation to be had.

You'll need to call a scout to figure out if you want to draft Jerry Judy, right? He's on the board. You have him listed there. He's, you know, ready to go. So it really is going to affect the back end of the draft which is going to be so different in my opinion that's where the biggest effect and Gabe we and you won't really know the difference we won't know

how the back half is different but I'll tell you how it will be different is so they cancel pro days they cancel top 30 visits which is when you fly in players, and they canceled medical rechecks. A lot of the small school players, FCS schools, Division II, Division III, that relied on Pro Day to be drafted aren't going to be drafted this year. A lot of those guys don't go to the Combine. They might go to an All-Star game, but teams don't have 40 times. They don't have physicals on them. They don't have just the eyeball test. And those guys would go, you know, I'm obviously an Oregon grad. So, you know, Western Oregon would show up to Oregon's Pro Day.

Eastern Oregon, Portland State, right? They all come to Oregon and work out for Oregon's Pro Day, which actually did happen this year. It's a terrible example. But, you know, let's use anywhere. I'm in North Carolina, right? So, like, UNT has a Pro Day, and all the small schools come, and they work out at that Pro Day. And in North Carolina, right? So like UNC has a pro day and all the small schools come and they work out at that pro day. And guys get seen, right? There's guys that, you know, scouts have an idea of who they are, but they don't really know until they see them in person.

Those guys not getting drafted this year. There's no chance. Teams will take a flyer on a guy in the fifth, sixth or seventh round who they have a full workup on, full medicals and full everything. Wait, so hold on. Let me pause you there for a second. So you're saying that the lineman at Michigan who I've been able to watch for three seasons, who wasn't necessarily going to be picked, but there's enough tape and enough verifiable information,

he's going over the guy from Eastern michigan state because yes just simply because he's a little bit more known yes it's that simple this year okay like you need okay so it's i was watching that documentary um art of coaching with with bill belichick and nick saban right and belichick was talking about pro days and he said it's two pieces of a hundred piece puzzle okay so it's two pieces but when you're a smaller school kid it's more than two pieces because you don't have the combine you don't have you know a um you know you probably have an invite to a smaller caliber bowl game you know a east west shrine game or like an nflpa bowl you know you played in some all-star game and so you know you know, you have maybe 30 missing

pieces of the puzzle. You don't have a physical that you took at the combine or at a medical recheck. And so you don't have that complete puzzle. And teams are fearful of drafting a guy like that without getting a full workup on them. When they can take a guy from Michigan, who the upside might not be as high, who they know everything about already. There's two other things that are going to be different in this draft. And again, Gabe, me and you probably won't know the difference. Teams will know the difference. And obviously players that won't get drafted. Two other areas I think will be a concern if you're looking at this at the back end

of the draft. It could affect two on the top end of the draft. Medical recheck. So for people that don't know, the combine was put in place as a medical examination, first and foremost. So one centralized place, everyone, all team doctors, all team personnel can get their hands on you. There's MRIs done. Everyone can see what's happening. Well, they have a medical recheck in the middle of April for guys that either got hurt at the combine or were too hurt to work out at the combine. That's not happening now. So there's plenty of players that got hurt at the back end of their season,

that couldn't do their pro game, that couldn't do their combine, or play in these all-star games and might have been able to run at pro day. That's now gone. So you're going to see guys drop from the second round to the fourth round. Look, we'll get to Tua and Herbert in a second. You know, Tua uh I think there's more talk of there's some question marks with his medical um and he might drop a few spots that's really going to hurt uh players as well um and one other spot was very interesting I talked to an

agent about this and I hadn't thought about this it makes a lot of sense so basically rounds five six and seven a lot of coaches get involved in picks, right? You know, the top of the draft board, all the scouts are involved, the general manager, the pro person. But at the back end of the draft, you start getting more coach involvement, right? The picks are coming faster and more furious. And, you know, a GM just turns to a coach, hey, what do you like about this guy? You know, should we take him? coach, hey, what do you like about this guy? You know, should we take him? And a lot of those coaches, because they're not watching all the film, they get really intrigued by athletes on pro day and athletes at the combine and say, look, I can coach this guy up. He has the physical

traits that he has. His film might not be very good or might be average, but I can take that guy because I, you know, I can work with the talents he has. Okay. And so those guys get drafted later in the draft. An agent told me those guys are not getting drafted this year because the coaches aren't going to have the involvement that they used to have. And so it's really fascinating. So again, look, we're not going to see this. Like, I don't think we'll be able to be like, okay, well, this, this FCS guy would have been drafted, but he's not.

This fifth round pick last year is going undrafted now. We're not going to know that, but these are the the ways i've been told to talk to scouts agents and coaches that it's just there's incomplete information yeah it also stands to reason right that at the higher level schools the big programs those coaches have either coached in the nfl have worked under guys who are in the nfl have guys who used to work under them who are in the NFL. They're all a text away, right? So it's conceivable that the Harbaugh brothers and their network of former coaches, like they're one text away during this,

which means guys who played for them, guys who played at big schools are going to be favored, even, you know, inadvertently favored in the process. They're just, they have familiarity. Familiarity is of course is going to be part of this problem now let me just go back to one thing you brought up though yeah because this gets to what i think i wanted to better understand about the draft this year and maybe every year you said in the fifth sixth seventh round later on the gm will turn to the

coach and maybe the coach will have a bigger say walk me through why the coach doesn't have a big say in the first second and third round like that that's a little bit of a surprise to me. And I think I want to understand better, like in the limited time that one has between picks, when there is a bit of a scramble, even if the board is set, there's a bit of a scramble. Who makes the decision? Who's talking to who? And this year, quite literally, who's muted and who isn't? Well, I think what happens is at the top of the draft, everyone knows those guys are good, right?

We watch the film. It's obvious to see. By the end of the back end of the draft, when you're trying to fill out your roster, you might be trying to find guys that more fit what the coach wants to do. And I think you should do that throughout the entire draft, but I don't think teams do that. And so in the fifth, sixth, seventh round, you turn to your coach and say, hey, who's the guy you saw you liked who stole the board, right? And just, okay, I can work with this guy.

Like, for example, I was drafted by the Panthers in the seventh round. They were the only team to come to my pro day and work me out. Well, there were many teams there, but the only team to actually work me out, like Dave Magazoo, the only coach, was there at pro day to work me out. And obviously, they drafted me. Like, he, I'm sure that they turned to him and was like, who do you want? He said, oh, I like this Jeff Schwartz kid. I worked him out at Oregon.

Let's draft him in the seventh round. That's how I think it happens in the back end of the draft. The top end, we all know. We all know that Chase Young is going to be good, that Tua is going to be good. We all know that a second round, I don't even know, I can't think of a second round draft pick now, who's going to be good in the NFL, has the traits to be good in the NFL. Not guaranteed, obviously.

So I think that's where the coaches have more involvement. And I don't think, I think now they're going to be muted. I don't know how it's going to be good in the NFL, has the traits to be good in the NFL. Not guaranteed, obviously. So I think that's where the coaches have more involvement. And I think now they're going to be muted. I don't know how it's going to work. I mean, there's also funny things about technology and whether or not someone's going to hack into the Zooms, which is kind of hilarious. Everyone's just looking at the Patriots, right, for that. It's going to be fascinating. What if someone's internet goes down at someone's house?

What if the cell tower goes out? I mean, there's a lot of interesting things that could happen in this draft. I don't know what the answers are. I guess you call in your pick and is Goodell going to announce the pick from his house? Like what's going to happen with that? They're merging the broadcast. Dude, you're a producer. How's this going to work?

They're supposed to merge NFL and ESPN, the broadcast together into one. How's that going to work? It's going to be wild. Yeah, well, I can't say specifically how it's going to work I haven't checked in with those folks but I mean all that probably means is just a merger of talent so for most fans I don't think they really know the difference who's on what network and whatever uh you know that the guys who are on there are going to be the familiar guys and you're going to hear their takes in real time whether it was nfl talent or espn talent they'll both be there presumably um you know i don't think that will make a huge difference i think you'll probably see fewer of

them because remember every person who you include in this broadcast is a potential technical hiccup right so in recent years it's been cool right i feel like uh they started including herbie and more college guys to talk more about the players and what they didn't call yeah i feel like you're gonna have to restrict some of that just down to your core people so yeah it'll be adjustments for everyone but okay so so in the actual moment of the drafting let's just say that because they're just like the people at cnn and, like we're realizing there's no secret Internet for other people. Like everyone's dealing with the same problem. Other than Bill Gates, who seemed like he had perfect, beautiful connection.

I haven't seen anyone who doesn't suffer from the same issues we are right now on Skype. If it goes wrong, like is there a chain of command? If the GM enters the pick after advising with the owner the coaches the scouts but the gm's internet crashes who like call someone okay so they'll all have a protocol that's the way it works now anyways they call someone at the draft there's a representative the draft the draft they log it on that card yep they hand it to the person so now i guess you just would call someone at cadel's house and do it all right so there'd be a verified number calls another verified number blah blah blah okay last question on this

and then we'll move to another more player specific part of the draft the you know this is a bit of a joke but also kind of serious right like we're all trying to facetime uh skype house party whatever with everyone in our lives right now. I'm not trying to be ageist here. I'm just being realistic. I have an easier time connecting with you, someone my age, than let's say my parents, someone more the age of a traditional owner or GM. Is it possible that teams that are sort of young in their coaching staff and front office who probably have lived with this technology their whole lives and haven't had to try to adapt to it is it possible that they might have a little bit more efficient calmer better draft just for the same reasons that

younger people seem to be better at certain technology like i'm not trying to be a jerk i'm not calling anyone out but like i have a hard time believing that some of these owners have ever been on any of these apps before. No, IT guys in every one of these cities are going to be getting calls to come to the owner's house and set up a Skype internet connection. I mean, do you think that a bunch of these owners

have great internet at their house? Probably not. Like it's going to be, I mean, I don't, you know, the devil doesn't strike me as someone who has a fiber cable in his house. So it's going to be really interesting how this works. Yeah. I don't – I'm just – I know it took me a while to get my dad to understand that the FaceTime, like put your face right where – in front of the camera. And then like I used to look at his ear while he talked to me like it was a camera. And I was like, Dad –

Oh, so see, my parents are good at that now see mine aren't and uh i have a feeling that a few of the owners out there are more like my dad than not all right which owner is going to be the one who who is the worst of technology well i mean it's probably a few of the ones i don't even know uh i would say any of the most crotchety any of the ones who've been in there grumbling about you know the cba the longest um anyone who made their money in like oil or some sort of jerry jones yeah i mean except that he probably has a team of people who figured this out for him also some of the people will take the sort of social distancing stay at home uh warning seriously and others quite obviously will not.

So I'm guessing that certain owners are just going to have a team of people in their house no matter what. Daniel Snyder is going to be the guy. All right. Yeah, no comment. Let's talk about the first pick. So everyone on earth, except I guess Maurice Jones-Drew, I don't know why, but everyone else on earth assumes that Joe Burrow is going to since he number one case closed best player.

Perfect fit. Nothing to discuss. No surprises coming at one. MJD apparently doesn't think so. We'll leave that out. So all that's up for debate in, you know, we only like to talk about quarterbacks leading up to the draft is who's the second quarterback taken? And the question comes down to Tua or Herbert. quarterback taken and the question comes down to tua or herbert so for now mel kuiper the draft guru is saying the dolphins would actually go for herbert over tua uh if if either of them make it

to the fifth pick or both of them make it to the fifth pick um but i personally do not believe anything until i hear from my former coach man of reason rex ryan who said that um tua is the biggest gamble in draft history, and then referenced that apparently Tua has had, according to Rex Ryan, five surgeries, not the four most of us have heard about, and that he's very damaged goods. This seems very, very weird to me, and I'm not trying to go down a rabbit hole of Reddit right now, but like, what is rex doing and is somebody is there an you know like a goal here to sort of slander the guy like why are people trying to sort of undermine and tank tour right now what's that all about and are they even getting it right from a player evaluation

perspective it is is to a turd or not did rex ryan make that assumption no that's a different person i believe amari cooper is a turd i don't think i just want to make sure no so i mentioned he obviously knows the personality of all these players just making sure that he was up on this on two as well um okay just like like move on please i mean i just it's so stupid like all the criticism that people in my industry face for being hot takers and just saying whatever they can to get clicks. I take offense to it because I know how hard some of the people who get that accusation thrown at them work. And I know that they aren't doing it just for the clicks. In Rex's case, I have to wonder, dude, what are you doing when you're going out there and calling Amari Cooper a turd?

Like, come on, man. That's only for the clicks. There's no intelligence to that point at all. This 201, this also struck me as really odd, except he claimed he had some evidence. So what, like, what is this about? This feels weird to me. I do think that there's a lot of concern about the medicals.

I thought he had three surgeries, the two ankle surgeries, which, by the way, so he got these tightrope. I have I have him in one of my ankle right now. It just holds your ankle together. So it heals faster. And so they're not like major surgeries per se, but they're still surgeries. Right. He had to two sprained ankles and then he had the hip, obviously.

And here's the deal. I know they've said he's healthy, but I think the teams are concerned. They can't get their hands on him, obviously, to see that as well. But I can't remember a top draft prospect that has been this beat up heading into the NFL. Remember, Tua's fast. Defensive ends are faster. We saw last year Tyler Murray is a super fast quarterback, right?

Very agile, very athletic, very quick. He was getting chased down by defensive ends. Only Michael Vick and Lamar Jackson were the only two players in my lifetime I've seen that can literally just run past anybody who's chasing him. Most of the guys, you know, they're mobile, they can run, but you know, defensive ends will catch

him, right? Linebackers will catch him. Lamar Jackson, Mike Vick, no one's catching those guys. So Tua's going to get caught and when he gets caught, will he get hurt? And the other thing with Herbert, so obviously, look, I'm an Oregon grad. I've watched every snap of Herbert's. I actually went back the last couple of days. I've watched more Oregon film.

Look, there are clear issues, in my opinion, on Herbert's anticipation. But there are some things that I think get overlooked because he went to Oregon and didn't go to Utah State. He played with no pro wide receivers for the last two seasons. Zero. His best offensive weapon was a tight end who got hurt halfway through this last season. He played in a run-first offense,

which is the exact opposite of what Joe Burrow played in. Right? Run-first offense, they asked him to just save the day to save the day. And I think that when you allow him to be in a pro offense, it says, hey, you're our guy. You make the plays. Things will speed up for him for the processing. Because again, the offense did not fit him.

I don't think it was designed well for him to run first base offense. So the thing that I don't understand the way we talk about Herbert, we don't talk this way about Tua or Burrow or Jordan Love, is that people just assume Herbert is an already made product. There's no room for improvement. We all think that Burrow can continue to get better. We all think that Tua can continue to get better. We all think Jordan Love can get better. But people talk about Herbert like he's just set in stone,

that what he is is what he is. I just think that's the wrong way to look at him. I think that's can get better. But people talk about Herbert like he's just set in stone, that what he is is what he is. I just think that's the wrong way to look at him. I think that's why we're seeing – I saw two more mock drafts today, one from Daniel Jeremiah at NFL Network, I think one from Connor Orr at MMQB, that both had Herbert at five to the Dolphins and two at six. Again, it doesn't mean Herbert's going to be a stud and two is not, but I think we're realizing that, yeah, there's a lot of upside to Herbert.

He won the award this year for the top student athlete in all of college football um he he's he is not getting in trouble Gabe I tried my best to find one person to give me an off the record comment about Justin Herbert's leadership just something like just what no one zero stories he's a great leader he's quiet but he's he's a great leader. He's quiet, but he's a great leader. Guys love him. And, like, I just don't understand. So that's just why I think two is dropping and Herbert's going up. NFL people realize he has a lot to work with,

and there's a lot that you can improve on because offense limited him so much. He wasn't even allowed to run the ball until the second to last game of the season. They told him, hey, buddy, don't get hurt. Don't run the football. And it's just wild to me. So I think there's a lot of room for improvement there. And two of the injury concerns are a real thing. All right.

So let me throw it at you this way. Are you kind of telling me that it's just Herbert's ceiling and floor are a little closer together, and we kind of don't know the ceiling and floor for a guy like Tua, or I guess you bring up Love, a guy like Love. And so is it really like you're asking these Zoom rooms to decide basically, like, would someone sign up for Matt Ryan or Deshaun Watson if they had the chance, right?

Like, that's kind of the choice here. You know, like, one guy clearly has a higher ceiling and lower floor in Watson. The other guy is definitely going to be solid and maybe very good in Matt Ryan. And the question is just what does your franchise want? Where are you as an organization currently? Kind of like that. I'm not comparing their games.

Yeah, but also I think coaching matters. If Deshaun Watson had Matt LaFleur, who was there? Kyle Shanahan yeah you know in in Atlanta for two years he would be much better than he is now I mean coaching is a big part of this I don't think 28-3 is a meme if uh Deshaun Watson had been there with the coach but yeah and and that's part of the process as well but I do think that the injuries are a legit concern for people and here's the thing about Alabama quarterbacks and look Tua is supremely talented he's better than anyone that they've had come out.

It's a thing with Joe Burrow too, is that, and I'm trying to rack my brain about recent great draft picks. They don't really come from these powerhouse places because it's, that's not,

easy is the wrong word because it's football, it's not easy. But, you know, Tua's played with almost an entire offensive line getting drafted. Running back's getting drafted an entire offensive line getting drafted. Running back's getting drafted.

Tight end's getting drafted. He's going to have two wide receivers in the first round possibly at Alabama. Everything is set up for him to succeed. Joe Burrow the same way at LSU. So I think that people do look at that and say, look, what if Justin Herbert had Jerry Judy and Ruggs and tight ends? The offensive line was better at Oregon than Alabama. But this idea that the weapons, and you get the NFL, and you don't have those weapons that you had in college,

and how does that affect the way guys play? I don't know if it's quite fair to look at it that way. But look at the history. Look at the top draft picks from all these classes. A lot of them aren't at these major power five schools where it's quote- quote unquote easy for them. No, I'm with you. And I do look at it that way.

And that's why I was always concerned about Sam Darnold coming out of school. He had plenty of weapons and he was what he was. And then he got to the NFL. His weapons weren't even all that much better. And what do you know? It wasn't great when he started out. May not ever be great. Let me just go back to the thing I started on.

I don't want to take Rex too seriously, but I'm genuinely curious because when we talk about the NFL, we all understand there's sort of like, you know, not to trigger anyone, but there's sort of like a deep state in the NFL. Like these guys all do talk and there's like a layer beneath the layer, right? So is it possible, not Rex specifically, but is it possible that when we're listening to these analysts or when we're hearing these leaks about a guy you know how scouts are viewing a guy is some of that coming from people who are sort of baked into the the fabric behind the scenes of the nfl that these stories about okay so talk me through that a little bit because i've witnessed it but i don't think our audience necessarily knows what I'm getting at.

So let's say that you are a team that's below the Dolphins. You're the Chargers, let's say. You're the Chargers. You have your coach who knows Rex Ryan. Call him up. Be like, man, this Tua guy, so many injuries. He's got five surgeries now. Don't know if I can trust him.

The Rex goes on air and says that. The Dolphins go, whoa. I mean, they probably know. But, you know, I mean, word starts spreading around. The Dolphins are like, I just can't take Herbert. I mean, I assume I can't take Tua. You know, Tua drops the charges. I do think that there's misinformation put out there. Maybe not misinformation. Some quote-unquote deep state secrets get out to to change the way the nfl teams and look i'm telling you guys everyone reads twitter coaches do college coaches do you should be you should be surprised how many times i put up like a video clip of something and or something about any any sort of football thing and a coach hits me up from behind the scenes about like what really took place okay like. Like there are, and you've seen it in,

in these green rooms, right? The stories and like there's stuff I know that I don't share. I just, I'm not my place to share it. And I just don't do it. And so a lot of times I think when draft season comes around, there are people at buildings that try to manipulate draft picks at the top of the draft via the media.

And I don't know if that's what happened with Rex Ryan, but I definitely think that it's something to think about when you listen to guys that are not the scouts, that are not like Jeremiah or not Mel Kiper or not Mick Shea or not Matt Miller, like guys that are kind of Rex, that Rex is not watching these draft picks play, okay? He's not studying college film.

And he has something like this that we're so down about, too. Someone told him to say that. Someone gave him the information to say, hey, look, go crap on this guy. and he has something like this and he's so down about Tua. Someone told him to say that. Someone gave him the information to say, hey, look, go crap on this guy for me so he might be lowered in the draft. Yeah, or didn't even say go crap on this guy but said enough bad stuff about him that he knew it would have that effect. And these guys, whoever these people are that are texting the folks on air, are putting up a lot of shots.

The guys who you get used to hearing every morning, like they get a lot of DMS and a lot of texts from a lot of people. They're pretty connected. Yeah. And so, you know, if you're getting some of it, I just started in this business,

I just started in this business and I'm not even like that popular, not that famous. And I haven't even like started basically beginning to like grow my network of NFL sources, which I'm probably gonna start doing this next year and do more of it or even on the college side. And like the stuff I get told and the stuff that I learn about is wild, dude. Like I it's and I'm just like low on the totem pole. I'm not I'm not even, you know, I'm not that high on the list of people that people would share stuff with.

Right. And so imagine the amount of stuff that's hitting, you know, the top guys who are talking about the NFL at ESPN right now, who've been doing it for years when they say something, everyone in the business sort of tilts in their direction. They're getting a lot thrown their way. So I just saw that from Rex. And, again, like we can joke about Rex a million different ways. I just thought to myself, huh, he's way out there on this one and

really, really negative about a guy for no real reason. I wonder what else is going on there. I'm not accusing Rex of anything. I just think everyone, when they watch these shows, should just be mindful of the fact that everyone is being spun by someone. And you should just listen to the people who understand the tape best. And Jeff, you're one of those guys. So let's move along. You mentioned these guys a minute ago in the last topic Lamar Jackson Mike Vick so they tie together on this topic I want to bring up this is we are definitely in off-season topics right now we're not this isn't even a quarantine topic this is just your average off-season topic but here goes the MVP is getting into the hot take game this week all right he quote tweeted someone asking

if Mike Vick is getting into the hall of fame and said this can't be a real question by the way i don't know if writing this as thiz is just like a cool new thing on twitter i'm gonna start doing it um listen i know lamar looks up to mike vick uh obviously he heard himself compared to him as he beat his records this year there's clearly some similarities in their game um but this is a real question lamar uh it is no given in my mind that mike vick is going into the hall of fame we don't need to talk about the awful stuff he did away from the field though obviously that's a factor just looking at his numbers he is no obvious hall of famer okay no rings no mvps no all pros passing stats pretty average rushing

stats, obviously incredible. Number one, all time as a quarterback, but no brainer hall of famer. I'm going to say no way. In fact, he'd be very, very lucky to get in at some point. He wouldn't be the top 15. And obviously look, take away, you know, the off the field stuff. It did derail his career and obviously changed, you know, how we view him. But, I mean, even just looking at his stats otherwise, it's not remotely close. I mean, it doesn't even, it doesn't, no. I mean, his best season he threw 21 touchdown passes. He completed 62.6% of passes.

Like, that's just not good enough in the NFL. He's a guy that missed the window that he should be playing in by about 10 years. By now, right? Like now. And it's funny watching. They re-showed USC-Texas Rose Bowl a couple nights ago on ESPN. And talk about two guys that missed their window to play. Vince Young and Reggie Bush would be incredible now when the offense would have evolved.

And Vic would be incredible now. the offense has evolved. And Vic would be incredible now. But it wasn't the time. He didn't play in a time when you ran the ball like you did now. He didn't play in a time with a more spread open offense where you can kind of generate easy completions to help you if you're not as accurate or not. But Michael Vic, I'll tell you what. Look, if you're talking about Hall of Fame talent, of course,

you get Hall of Fame talent. It just wasn't good enough to actually get in the hall of fame this is a great i'm surprised this topic hasn't been on like first take yet i mean oh i'm sure it has great morning topic um you know morning show me he the most he threw for 3 300 yards in philly his second season under andy reed but again i mean 18 touchdowns 14 interceptions. Again, I don't think that rushing stats get you in the Hall of Fame for quarterbacks. And maybe it'll change moving forward. But, I mean, you know, Steve Young

ran the ball, but he all got in the Hall of Fame because he completed like 70% of passes before guys were completing passes at that rate. You know, he got in the Hall of Fame for that. So, I think there's... It's not gonna even be be even though even though it'd be fair peter king has gone on record saying that what happens off the field should not matter to your hall of fame voting so really yeah he said about yeah i think

he said about about darren sharper um that he said that that you should not consider his off the field issues when it comes to um to hall of fame i'll make sure i got that right here but i believe that's what he said see i i don't i don't i don't buy that it's just a museum it's just a place where you put people who you want to like make sure next generation of folks are aware of and you know it's a it's a sign of respect so if somebody did something that made us all lose respect for them that doesn't mean we need to pile on them forever and ever and ever. This is America. You get second and third chances. But he said he said he said, by the way, I want to make sure I get this right.

I like Peter. I don't want to say he said that he would not consider Sharper for induction. But he says that he should remain on the ballot because voters are asked to consider only on the field factors. the ballot because voters are asked to consider only on the field factors so he personally would not consider him but he shouldn't be made ineligible because he did some bad stuff away from the yes yes that's the right way to say that so um i want to make sure all right well so yeah we're not misquoting peter but but i mean it's an interesting question in general and i would argue and maybe you could throw some players i love at me and I could quickly seem like a hypocrite. But it seems to me that what is the Hall of Fame anyway? It's completely arbitrary.

It's just a way to say this guy was special. And, you know, if you have to qualify and explain it and say, yeah, but just don't look at this whole other part of his life. He can't. Yeah. Which is the way we know Hall of Fame voters. We look at Terrell Owens. He should have been the first ballot Hall of Famer, but he wasn't because people didn't like his attitude. Yeah, but you see, that's where it gets different to me.

Like, people didn't like his attitude or the way he branded himself or the way he dealt with the media at the time. They're taking, that's like them making it about them, the voters. They were personally slayed by the guy. As far as I know, T.O. didn't do anything criminal or awful away from the field. Like, I mean, I have no idea of course, but it wasn't a story in the news every,

you know, for three years that he did something disgusting. He just was sort of a sort of self-destructive dude who made his life harder because of the way he acted with the media. But that big deal. I mean, his stats are incredible. His,

his record is amazing. Great. No. Well, okay. So let me spin record is amazing. Agreed. Agreed. Well, okay, so let me spin it forward a little bit. Lamar Jackson, you've been, you know, critical in the right way, not like you've ever piled on him personally and not like you've ever tried to throw shade his way, but you've been very dubious of the fact that his game can hold up over the long term. You said all year long, great weight to the playoffs, great weight to the playoffs. Man, we know you sweated in the playoffs because he still looked pretty good for a while. Do you think that he can play this way long enough and achieve enough

things to become a Hall of Famer one day? Or do you think if he's a Hall of Famer, he had to have adapted his game? He had to be more pass first at some point in his career. I mean, I don't have a great answer for you, Gabe, because it's almost unprecedented how much Lamar is using his legs. Right. I mean, even Cam Noon wasn't remotely close to this in his MVP year, even in any, really any year. I mean, he's using his legs at such a high rate. He's running the ball like a running back. I mean, the production that he's putting up is, well, there's no other comp NFL history for Lamar Jackson. I'm looking at Michael Vick right now, his stats, and the most rushing attempts he had in one season

was 113, 120 in 2004, okay? And his career went down to 123 in 2006. I mean, Lamar Jackson last year was over 200, if I recall. And there's no one even remotely close to what Lamar Jackson's doing with his legs. Yeah, if you look at his rushing attempts, he had 176 this year. And he didn't even play the last game of the year. And he had a lot of games where he was taken out or the offense kind of just was run the ball for the last quarter of the game.

So there's no comp for Lamar Jackson. A lot of times we like to look at comps and say, okay, this guy looks like this guy, this guy does this, this is why he'll get in. I don't have a great answer for you. I don't know. He's only played two seasons. Obviously the MVP helps him get in.

But also playoff wins and longevity, which we don't know yet. We haven't seen that yet. Yeah, well, he's lucky because Tom Brady just left his division. We'll see what happens with the dynasty. His conference. Excuse me, the conference. Thank you. We'll have to see what happens with Mahomes and KC

and the dynasty they're trying to build. I mean, Lamar Jackson could find himself, you know, for 10 years as one of the top two or three guys in the AFC, and he might sneak a ring or two out of that. So, I mean, then he'd obviously be in. But I have a feeling he'll have to adapt his game like all good players do all right let's move the line um this is our little over under betting game there's nothing real to bet on right now so i'm just throwing fake topics at you i want to know clowny to the

browns that has been rumored chances jeff admits he kind of likes this idea over under one percent look I don't hate the Browns oh come on you can't stand I was exactly right I'm wearing my my screw the Browns t-shirt right now as you can see um no look I mean if you went there their defense would be amazing but the question becomes Baker Mayfield is Baker Mayfield going to be good or not it's that simple that's all it's all that matters so yeah of course you have you have miles garrett and clowny i mean be incredible yeah i mean well we we saw some version of that with him and jj watt although they weren't on the field a lot together but i mean how many great players who we're all familiar with who are sort of media darlings need to go to Cleveland for us to really see them be as good as the media hype is around them?

Would they need a pro bowler at every single position? And would that even be enough to make them 11-5? What will it take? Well, I mean, it could. I mean, if they had Freddie Kitchens, geez, with Clowney. He's gone. I like the new coach. I like Stefanski.

There's obviously a lot of positives there with him but i just i mean the culture of losing is so hard to overcome this i you know i played i played detroit okay for one year i just played for half a training camp right okay we got booed on our first home possession of preseason for a three and out. Mm-hmm. Like, cultures of losing, they just continue to lose until it's kind of broken. And so is this team ready to do this? Baker Mayfield ready to break that culture of losing? Well, I mean, I think he's off to a good start,

even if it's a bit of smoke and mirrors, and they are, in fact, losing a bit. I do think Baker is a powerful enough personality to change that that direction he's helped a little bit by the fact that lebron got that city a championship and then baker showed up and the people have turned things around a little bit and don't think those two things are disconnected like that city is a bit fixed by lebron and then baker could fix the browns i guess the idea though that Clowney showing up to strengthen their defense which I don't really think was their issue necessarily

um I don't know I saw that rumor and it just seemed like the fun thing to say now with any free agent or any guy on the trade block is what about Cleveland and that didn't seem like a real story to me so I'm glad to know you're not putting a whole lot of thought into it. I mean, Clowney's market continues to drop because he's so inconsistent. So maybe his market drops where Cleveland can afford him. I don't know how much more they want to take on. Yeah, well, wildly inconsistent is what they seem to go for there. I will say this. If he goes to the Browns, or maybe even if he doesn't,

by the way, AFC North, sneaky, most interesting division in football this year. I agree. They're going to have the number one pick quarterback. They're going to have the MVP quarterback. They're going to have a Hall of Fame quarterback coming back for one last hurrah in Pittsburgh, we assume, and they're going to have the Browns. I mean, that's not necessarily all great teams,

but all very talkable teams. I'm just saying it's one division if Ben's healthy. Oh, that's such a lame take. Early prediction. All right, fine. We'll let you come back to that one in a little while when you think about that a little longer. In your quarantine, maybe reconsider whether the Steelers still got it.

Let's move along here. Full episodes you'll spend watching Hard Knocks. Over under five, I want to just give you some context. For the first time hard knocks is planning to feature two teams in the same summer okay let's hope this is all possible still the goal is for the rams and chargers each to get five episodes will you watch a full season and then some um dude i watch every i've watched every episode every hard knocks i go back and watch episodes of hard okay so you of every hard knocks i go back and watch episodes

of hard okay so you're a clear over go go back and watch if you have time if you everyone's on quarantine go back and watch the first raven season the things they say on that show on that first season could never ever make air now it's unbelievably crude and it's the way we talk when cameras aren't around most of the time i think it's cleaned up a little bit now it's hilarious i think it is tony saragusa shannon sharp shay sharp shay sharp is hall of fame level talker in that uh in that episode or that season so you're all in and you watch and look and the and the rex episodes are good too yeah that's true that's that's about when we first all discovered him. So you're all in.

They can make 50 of these and you'd watch every minute of all of them. I watch all or nothings on Amazon. I consume teams like their own media they put out. I love it all. All right. Well, then I'm going to skip one and we'll end on a different note. I'm going to go to now. That's real life. That's docu-style.

We're watching real players talking about real football. Real football, guys. Now let's go to now that's that's real life that's docu style you know we're watching real players talking about real football real football guys now let's go to the fake world i want to know over under here on friday night lights ranking among best sports tv shows ever is it over under 0.5 is it your number one or somewhere further down okay so i never saw sports nights okay which on the list eastbound and down is amazing Night. Okay. It's on the list. Eastbound and Down is amazing. You're just listing all the options. I want to know if Friday Night Lights is your number one or not.

Oh, I'm listing off the options that we could go. Feel free. The audience might not have a Google in front of them. They could be jogging somewhere. The League. They're not going to have a Google. I think I'm listing off the shows. The League was great last chance to you.

I don't get Ballers. I haven't watched Ballers in two seasons. I just I'm listing off the shows. The league was great. Last chance to you. I don't get ballers. I haven't watched ballers in two seasons. I just, I can't do it. It's just, it's not my thing. And I watch a lot of stuff. Playmakers.

I think Friday night lights is the best. Yeah. So these, of the, of the sports focused shows, Friday night lights is your number. Fictional, a fictional sports shows.

Yes. Yeah. See, so I, I would go to the league, which is, I guess the difference between you and me, the Friday night lights is a little bit more. But it's the go the league, which is, I guess, the difference between you and me. The Friday Night Lights is a little bit more dirty football.

But it's the league. But the league is, I mean, it's a comedy. I don't know if that, is that a sports show? Yeah, they're talking about actual athletes on the field. It's the most sports show I can think of. The league is way more funny than Friday Night Lights. I mean, like, it's fantastic. I'm with you there.

You're helping my point. And I was last place in my league this year I should have gotten some sort of sort of weird trophy for that um but um I think Friday Night Lights was just overall better I think okay Friday Night Lights the movie even in your top 20 sports movies I feel like it's a little bit overlooked but doesn't doesn't crack most people's i don't even know i don't even do dude this is these are like this is your wheelhouse man you know i'm not a movie show i know but now you're trying this is your chance to catch up to the rest of us top 20 sports movie friday night lights yes i can't even imagine what would i mean how many movies are ahead of it i mean i'm not going to sit here and list every sports movie of all

time but i could probably off the top of my head come up with 30 that are better. But I won't do that to the audience. They can get in your mentions and tell you what to watch. 30 that are better? Interesting. That's the challenge I will give myself, is can I name 30 sports movies? Just to end the podcast, name one that would be close to 20.

Like, I'm starting to run out of steam. I said Major League. Of course. Okay. to 20 like i'm starting to run out of steam i'm well i said major league i i've already been okay well this is something for me and like damashek to agree on but i would argue that point break qualifies technically as a sports movie because of johnny utah so i can sneak like that into my top five which pushes things like you know longest yard or whatever which i don't maybe love but i can like i can eat that life is better the longest finance life is better than the longest yard the new one or the old one both all right fair good answer all right well we covered a lot of ground today jeff uh you really did make us a lot smarter on the whole draft process and what to look for in the first round and and that Mike Vick conversation, which I'm positive while we're talking,

they're also talking about that over on FS1 or ESPN. So we'll go catch up on what some of them said. But good to get through another week with you, Jeff. Yes. You're one of the few faces I actually see each week. So this was fun. Oh, sorry. I appreciate spending a little time.

And by the way, since the show is about to be over, let me just show you what I've been wearing this whole time. It's just for you. It's just right here. I know. It's a Tim Tebow shirt. We are aware that Tim Tebow is your favorite person of all time, even though I told you how I feel about him,

and you still continue to like Tebow, and it blows me away. It's the biggest, uh, biggest loss for the baseball season is we're never going to get to see Tim Tebow in the majors now, because this was his year. I think after this year, it's probably going to be hard for him to make it up.

He could have done it this year. Pretty convinced. If you hit one 43 and triple that you'd be cut, but Tim Tebow's going to get a promotion. It's quite incredible. It must be nice. That works. All right be cut. But Tim Tebow's going to get a promotion. It's quite incredible. Must be nice. That works. All right, everyone.

Thank you for tuning in, for coming with us. Hope everyone is staying safe and getting through the stay-at-home orders, the quarantines. I hope we can bring you a little bit of brightness

in your day. Take care, everyone. We'll talk to you guys next week. Have a great one.