Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Everybody Loses in Chiefs-Packers, Dirty Mac Jones, and the Titans Won’t Go Away

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Geoff and Gabe break down the biggest takes coming out after week 9 of the NFL season, starting with the reactions to Jordan Love’s subpar performance against the Chiefs. Geoff points out that Love not being ready only gives Aaron Rodgers more leverage over the Packers’ front office, and reduces the chances that he’ll face any sort of repercussions from the events surrounding his vaccination status. Also, Mahomes and the Chiefs’ offense need to get their mojo back, the Titans keep winning games they should lose, and Mac Jones proves his Patriotism in the most Pats way possible.This week on Moving the Line, Gabe asks Geoff what he thinks of the Cardinal's odds to make a deep playoff run, what’s up with Kyle Shanahan, and whether Von Miller was holding the Broncos’ defense back. Geoff shares his thoughts on where OBJ will end up, and takes a look at our current position on the Baker Mayfield cycle. Plus, Russ, stay off Twitter!Apple users, remember to leave comments on the episode with your takes and questions for a chance to be featured on a mailbag segment.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

it's Tuesday November 9th I'm Jeff Schwartz alongside Gabe doing this Jeff Schwartz to smile you were powered by the varsity podcast network we are extremely fired up today guys we had a little uh discussion beforehand Gabe is very upset today so that'd be fun it's always fun when Gabe is very upset about things we're talking about the Chiefs the Packers the Panthers the Cardinals the Niners I mean we have so much to get to it was a great weekend of football right college and NFL because nothing went it was the way it was supposed to go. And so it makes us think differently about teams. It makes us think differently about players, projections, all that.

And then next week, it might go all back to normal. Gabe, how are you doing today? You seem rested. I'm not rested. In fact, I'm more agitated than usual, Jeff. You just named half the damn league and you forgot to mention the Patriots, who, of course, are back in the news because they can't help but be dirty and cheat every single time they get the chance.

And no, we didn't notice it on Sunday, everyone. We noticed it Monday when 900 angles of Mac Jones twisting some guy's leg off at the ankle became available to us. So we're going to get to that. But, you know, sorry, everyone. We're kind of annoyed about that. Those of us who don't love the Patriots. I mean, you, your hatred for them is like the same.

I have the hatred for the Washington Huskies or the Los Angeles Dodgers. I get your hatred for them. And we will talk about them because they are guys. It's going to be a playoff team. It might be a little bit of a nuisance moving forward. But let's start with my Kansas City Chiefs, the Green Bay Packers, who played yesterday in a game that maybe we wish we didn't have to watch. It was pretty ugly.

You know, maybe if we'd had seats like Jordan Love's family, we wouldn't have been able to see the game, and that would have been better. Okay, so the visiting seats for NFL, that's what they are for visiting players and family. Like, they're up at the top. Dude, what? For anyone who didn't see the game yesterday, Jordan Love's mom and girlfriend at Kansas City had the last row at the top of the city.

They must have been like, the wind must have been blowing on them so hard for four hours straight. I think that Aaron Rodgers has a friend in Kansas City and said, put him up in the nosebleeds. So, yeah, the tickets for visiting families are normally those seats. Like, they're at the top of the stadium, their nosebleed. College football is different.

College football typically is lower section and very nice. But in the NFL, because we have to pay for those out of our own pocket. They're not free. And so they just throw all the parents up at the top. And so that wasn't surprising. It's funny because no one kind of knows about it but yeah his poor parents man very top of that stadium and watching their son play some not very good football no luckily they probably missed some of the details of just how bad Jordan looked so obviously Aaron Rodgers out COVID a thousand

things we could be talking about there maybe we will a second, but let's talk about how bad that kid looked because here's the reality. I think the Packers would have a lot more leverage and frankly could be a lot more firm with Aaron Rodgers, not just about COVID, about all of his behavior for the last few years. If they believe Jordan Love was ready to take over like Aaron did for Favre many years ago. The fact is Jordan Love ain't Aaron Rodgers and they know it and now we know it and so I think they got a real problem there we'll get to the Chiefs in a second but the Packers are kind of screwed now Jeff that kid can't play that's the issue and we discussed this in the offseason about why Aaron Rodgers was so forceful and trying to get the Packers to move him because he knew he had the leverage right he knew that Jordan Love was not going to be the player that he is and not

ready to be the player that he is and not ready to be the player that he is and maybe not ready to be the future franchise quarterback. There were times yesterday that he looked a little bit better. There were times he had three straight completions at one point, but the game was very fast for him. He looked out of sync. He looked not ready to make some big-time throws. Now, he had barely worked with Devontae Adams

because Devontae Adams was out for COVID, so he came back, and maybe there was some misconnection there, but he did not look in rhythm. Again, the game was very fast for him, and the Chiefs pressured the heck out of him. Every single time there was a drop-back pass situation, the Chiefs blitzed and blitzed and blitzed and blitzed.

So maybe if there's a game that he plays this weekend, Seattle, and they don't pressure him as much, maybe things are better. That's part of the equation as well. First start on the road in Kansas City, loud place. You're getting pressured 49% of the time. Maybe he's better next week. But, you know, in year one and a half, essentially, getting your first start,

I think we expected to see more. And look, there are definitely players who take longer to develop. And that is definitely Josh Allen, for example, right? Maybe Tua Tonga-Vailoa is a little bit longer to develop. But on the flip side, we have Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow and Mac Jones, who we're going to talk about a little bit, like these young players that it kind of just is there right away. Pat Mahomes' first start was the end of his first season at Denver in Week 17. It was very clear in that start, Gabe, that he was the future of his first season at Denver in week 17 it was very clear in that start

Gabe that he was the future of the Chiefs right like again Jordan Love didn't have to be perfect in this game but if the sentiment coming out of it is like that's not what you want it to be if you're a Packers fan no and and I mean I'm not the football expert on this show so you can help me understand this but what I saw was you know we know the, when they're playing well, are going to pressure you. We know they're going to blitz you. We know they're going to come after you. But what I saw was a quarterback who literally was just off his back foot, just lobbing it up and hoping Adams or Lazard could go up and make a play for him in like these weird one-on-one situations that were like jump balls that were sailing out of bounds, that were nowhere near the receivers, that were just, I hope to god I don't get hit kind of throws that's what it looked like at least well when when when the Chiefs or any team brings a lot of pressure like they did a lot of zero

pressure right we've talked about this before no safeties one-on-one and they tend to bring one extra player than the offensive line can handle and And so, throwing the ball up in the air when you have one-on-one for Devontae Adams is not a bad option. But some of those throws weren't very accurate. They weren't anywhere near him.

Right, right. That's the problem, right? It's not that they were just kind of heaved up there. Those can be big plays if they're within the catch radius of the wide receiver.

We saw, was it Lazard who scored a touchdown against Sorensen? Like, that ball was in the area and he caught it, right? Because Sorensen is not very good at football but also one-on-one zero coverage throw it to an area they can catch the ball so that was probably the problem too he just he didn't throw it into areas where the ball could be caught his decision making was okay in those instances hey i i see one-on-one coverage pressure i'm gonna throw it there just wasn't

very accurate yeah okay well then how about this question I don't want to get into the whole like thousand different, you know, uh, dunking on Rogers topics that lots and lots of people have been talking about in the last few days. I feel like that's been covered, but we do know that the Packers were aware of his status and we do know that they should have been a little bit more ready than most teams for the quarterback to have to miss a game or two when covid struck so how come this kid doesn't look like he's ever played against anyone at full speed before like why isn't he more ready to go they had to know they might turn to him this season so we talk about this a lot about preparing

quarterbacks now because there really is not as much time anymore because of the way practice is set up right there's one practice day in training camp and you have to give your reps your starter reps to the number one quarterback because there's not a lot of reps anymore when i was a young player in the nfl we had two practices a day and they were as long as they can be now they're two and a half hours or two hours and maybe their pads maybe we were full pads every day three hours right and so you had plenty of reps to get your And they were as long as they can be. Now they're two and a half hours or two hours. And maybe they're pads. We were full pads every day three hours, right? And so you had plenty of reps to get your quarterbacks ready to go. You had four preseason games.

And you were able to get the guys ready through the four preseason games. Now there's much less practice time. So every rep with the ones goes to Aaron Rodgers because he needs to get ready to play this season. And so when you bring a backup quarterback in like Love, who could use probably every rep that he can get at the moment, he had it for one week. And that's just the way the NFL is at the moment. They're not going to add more practice back.

So this is what it is. And that's why when we see quarterbacks like Herbert and Burrow and the Mac Jones, whoever else you want to throw in there, do so well early on, it leads us to believe that, hey, those guys have it and someone like Jordan Love, who might take some time, doesn't have it, right? Back when quarterbacks used to spend two, three years sitting behind someone, the judgments were different.

But now because guys start so fast, when one doesn't, we look at a guy like Jordan Love and say, hey, out. I'm out on him. He's not good enough. He might be, but if you're Aaron Rodgers, you were very pleased with last night. Because again, it proves that the Packers need you. Because look, the Packers win that game. And this is the part about Aaron Rodgers that people,

I think, are not really understanding and why a lot of people are upset. If you're a Packers fan, you should be upset. He cost your team the number one seed. Hands down, he did. He comes back this week. He might not practice all week and play Seattle. He's coming off a bye. And Russell Wilson, in a weird video, I think he's back.

I don't know. I don't know what his problem is. It's just so corny. But if Russell Wilson comes back in this game, I mean, there's no guarantee that Rodgers, with no practice whatsoever, shows up on Sunday and wins that game. And now you've lost two games like you're you're not making the the Super Bowl is unless you have home food advantage so I um he cost everyone a lot of money by not getting vaccinated oh well okay I mean there's a thousand things we could unpack

there well I'm tired to your point I'm tired of like this it's a no-win topic for a lot of people like i just for us like it's two or three days past this point i made my point on other podcasts on the radio like i'm not i'm not rehashing his pat mcafee interview yeah yeah i mean plenty of people have already tried to dunk on him one point that was tangential to it that i thought was interesting from the great kareem Abdul-Jabbar wrote a column, you know, I mean, he criticized him for his decision making and the misleading and all of that. But also he raised an interesting point, which is that we've been watching athletes be taken more and more seriously as voices in society and also as spokespeople. And it took a lot of work, starting with guys of Kareem's era and moving up

until today. And now athletes can earn tons and tons of money and have a huge impact in society if they want that. And Kareem's point was Aaron Rodgers is really setting that back with the way that he's been behaving in the last few days. And I'm curious for your take on that, just as a guy who made a living in sports, like do you think that that's a fair assessment of the situation well state farm is staying by him

yeah they are i mean so how i mean obviously they don't they except i saw that they actually haven't run any ads of his the last 48 and 48 hours yeah so ridiculously so they're they're always on constantly and this weekend they weren't yeah especially during a fox game like a national cheese packers prime time game on fox i setting back athlete spokesman i don't think so um but i think that maybe companies might vet guys a little differently now i mean you know if you're if you are a medical uh in the medical field you know and you're in medicine and you have a quarterback and who is part of your hospital network for marketing and we saw this with Rodgers and with Cousins,

and they dropped those guys. You cannot have someone who's anti-science be a spokesperson for a hospital. And so maybe those hospital systems think differently about athletes. But again, I make this point very often, because we talk about the minority. Most of the players in all sports are vaccinated. Most of them are in all sports are vaccinated. Most of them

are doing the right thing. Look, guys, I know that Gabe despises Tom Brady, but there's a little part deep down inside of him that respects him. But Tom Brady,

out of all people, he was one of the only players to, if we want to get on the political side, he had a MAGA hat right in his locker. He's friends with Donald Trump.

You would associate him with one political side. But number one for him is winning. That's his ethos. Winning them. Winning is number one. And, and he got the vaccine. Like no questions asked, got the vaccine because he wants to win. And Rogers doesn't want to win as much as Tom Brady. It's that simple. Okay. I wonder if he did get the vaccine or he was just immunized, but we'll have to come back to that. Brady or Rogers? Brady, but well,

he got the vaccine because there are 100% vaccinated. He, he, he's not, he didn't present the, the, the NFL with 150 page document detailing why he shouldn't be vaccinated. You know, like Rogers thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

It's that simple. And yeah, the NFL told him no. That is the final take on him to me was just the guy hates authority. guy hates authority and he hates the idea that anyone could possibly be smarter than him. So we don't even have to share any more of our opinion on vaccines. And all the debate that's been going on in this country for months is irrelevant to the fact that the guy doesn't like being told what to do, period. I know. And somebody told him what to do and he said, screw you.

That's it. I just hate how it got. I have to mention like Tom Brady's politics. We're going to talk about a vaccine like it's so silly that we got to this point because that's that's what this has become when it really didn't have to be and again 93 94 of the players are vaccinated and they did it because they believe in the science or they want to get the vaccine protect their family or they just want to win they realize that that you know the worries about the vaccine don't outweigh the passion for wanting to win.

Yep. All right. Well, so then the team that did win that game, and usually when we talk about the Chiefs, they're the first thing that comes up in the topic. So they're the second part of this story. The Chiefs do win. Pat Mahomes does not look great. I mean, he didn't look tons better than Jordan Love, but he still had some Pat in him. I guess they're now five and four. You were always the one telling us not to panic they seem like they're edging towards playoff team again but how do you feel about the offense now that the defense finally looks okay uh our pal nick wright was facetiously talking about the defense right like the 85 bears or they've only no second half points

like three games it It's hilarious. The defense is better. Melvin Ingram looked like he helped hit four or five pressures yesterday. The offense, where to begin, man? I've said this before about an offense is that it's typically not just one person. It can't be one quarterback, but most often when you have a good core of talent

on a unit, offense and defense, the reason why you're bad is not one player. It's different players making mistakes at different times. And so let's just say you're in the offense and the right tackle is the problem. Well, you can scheme up around that, right? Okay, we're going to run to the left. If we run to the right, we're going to have double teams. We're going to have a running back over there.

But when it's like the right tackle, one play, and then the slot wide receiver drops the ball, then Pat makes the wrong decision, and then the left tackle screws up, and then Kelsey drops a pass, and then, ooh, we have a big play. And then the next play, someone else screws up. You can't run a functional offense like that.

And it looks like, to me, the entire Chiefs offense is just flat. Like, there's no confidence there's a lot of of um of kind of like emotional reactions after poor plays I've never seen before from and look it's not like they've been perfect over the years but there's a lot of visible frustration I see from Travis Kelsey from Hill from the offensive line of things just not going as planned and yes Pat Mahomes is not playing good football right now. That is part of the problem, right? There are guys open, and again, for whatever reason,

he's just not finding them. He's second-guessing himself. He's throwing balls on the ground. His average depth of target is like two yards right now. Two yards! And his career is like six. And so it just doesn't look functional right now. I think running the football, they're good when they're running downhill.

They had some good plays here and there. They've designed it. Guys are open, right? But I will tell you, Gabe, the last play of the game was pretty important, I think. And people I know on social media hate when you say things like, oh, that gave him some confidence.

But the last play, third and 10, Chiefs are up six. Mahomes rolls to his right. And they're also, Mahomes just doesn't look as healthy as he has, at least moving in the last couple years. It's not really an excuse because it doesn't change his footwork or really being able to find open

guys. He doesn't move as well, I don't think. But nonetheless, final play of the game. He rolls to his right. Tyreek Hill kind of runs a route, right? Gets lost, comes back to the quarterback, and Pat just rockets the ball to him for a 15-yard gain. And you can see the emotion in Pat. Like, it was like, finally!

After three, four weeks, I finally made this play that I've been waiting to make now. And I know you think it's crazy. I know people are like, oh, one play doesn't change things. But sometimes it does, right? If you have the yips, if you have a mental block in the way you perform, and then all of a sudden, it clicks on the,

you're like, oh, oh, like it just can, you know, like, you know, it can lessen the stress in your body, the anxiety of playing. And maybe that one play clicks the Chiefs back into what they've been. I am not quite sure that's the case.

I'm hopeful the Chiefs fan is the case. They play Las Vegas this week and Las Vegas has their own problems right now. But I really think that that one play could jumpstart, you end the game feeling good about yourself, right? Like imagine if you have a bad day at work

and the final five minutes of your day go really well and you leave thinking to yourself, wow, right? It's a lot different than leaving work and having a shitty feeling, right? So that's what, when the Chiefs walk in that locker room,

they're going to remember that last play more than any other play of the entire game. I buy it. I think you're making sense to me. It's easier for me to understand that as a guy who never played football. So I think that sounds as smart as any other take you could have about them. And listen, maybe they ride that. They got Raiders and Cowboys, the next two. Then the Broncos, who apparently aren't the worst team in the in football then the Raiders again then the Chargers Steelers Bengals Broncos again so I mean they don't have an easy back half

of the season but maybe they get some momentum now and win the 10 or 11 games it takes to get in and then they're hot at the right point let's talk about a team that's red hot right now and I can't even believe I still have to talk about these guys. I've tried to write them off for dead since that loss to the Jets in overtime week two, I think it was. But for some reason, the Titans just keep hanging around and they keep knocking off playoff teams from last year or teams we think should win the Super Bowl this year. So fine, they do it again on Sunday night. They beat up on the Rams without Derrick Henry. So Adrian Peterson's 900 years old, but he's their running back. All I can hear Monday morning is that maybe these guys are, you know,

the new top team in the AFC and maybe they're Super Bowl contenders. Can you just say something that makes this stop? The Titans aren't for real, are they? It's really odd, dude. So the Titans have given up more yards per play than they've gained themselves this season. It was going that way into tonight, and this is from last night, and it ended that way after the game.

It's a strange stat, obviously, for a 7-2 team. They're not in the top 10 in DVOA, which is – and last year, look, I know people laugh at advanced stats, but if you remember last year, we kind of did a power ranking each week of where teams were, and Tampa Bay was the top of DVOA the entire year, even when of did a power ranking each week of where teams were. And Tampa Bay was the top of DVOA the entire year, even when they were 6-5 and 5-5. Everyone laughed at it. Oh, my God, how can they be number one?

They suck. Well, end up being right, right? They're really good. And they just kind of had some bad losses at certain times last season. Tennessee just, like, they're winning games. Okay, Stafford threw that pass last night, the first interception. To who? Like, to nobody. Like, so they got games. Okay, Stafford threw that pass last night, the first interception. To who? Like, to nobody.

Like, so they got kind of some lucky there. Carson Wentz threw that weird interception to them as well. It just doesn't seem like it can last, but their schedule is pretty easy the next four weeks. And maybe they're one of those teams that just kind of goes on a run and they catch up to some of their limitations. But it does not seem like they're as good as 7-2. No, except that it's really impossible to knock the last four weeks.

I mean, they beat the Bills. Well, these were close games in some cases. But they beat the Bills by three. Then they blow out the Chiefs. They edge out the Colts. Now they beat up on the Rams. Rams, who I was starting to think were the best team in football. They're at home now against the Saints without a quarterback next week. Then the Texans, that's a win. Then the stupid frigging Patriots, who we'll talk about soon. And then it gets pretty easy. So, I mean,

they're in. I don't see any reason to say that they're not in i guess though how do you lose your mvp and it make no difference like it just adrian peterson it's kind of a cool story but like huh he also he looked he looked much thinner last night they had in the past um well they had they didn't have 200 yards of offense last night like we don't know if it works or doesn't work yet because they didn't have to do anything on offense I mean if you could win a game with 196 yards or whatever they had then we can't give I can't give you an answer on what on what the offense would look like because they didn't have to do anything last night uh I mean 10-0 was 19-27 for 143 they had 2.7 yards a carry but again it wasn't you know they didn't they didn't have to run very much um they just didn't

have a lot of plays last night they're only 16 first and 56 plays in 194 yards they had 3.5 yards of play and won a game by comfortably so i don't think we can even make a judgment on what this offense is without derrick henry so they actually have to play offense for a while yeah all right peterson here's an observation and I heard Collinsworth mentioned something about this at the goal line they gave the ball to Adrian try to run it in he got stopped and I noticed it too he seems to be running you say he's a little slimmer he seems to be running more upright like a little just like running higher I don't know I always think of him as a kind of guy who like kind of crouches a little and like how the hell are you supposed to take the impact of his shoulders smashing into you it

didn't look that way last night no well yeah he was he was very much a kind of uh at least last night more upright but yeah he would it's so funny because he's big like derrick henry is and derrick henry and him are two different like derrick henry looks to avoid contact peterson goes right for the contact and so we're watching that game last night. I was laying in bed watching the game and my wife is half asleep, half paying attention. And she goes, Adrian Peterson, he's still in the NFL. Isn't he old? I was like, I was like, hon, yes, yes, that's yes, you're right. I did just explain it to her. It was never going to happen. But I mean, even she realized that it was odd. He was playing football still, and she does not pay attention to football.

Yeah. Well, so tell us a little bit more about that, because Collinsworth said he was making it too easy for people to get up under his shoulder pads. And, you know, his beauty was he would smash into you and then run right over you and gain the extra four or five yards dragging you. He can't do that if he's running the way that he is right now? No, because so Adrian Peterson was not a guy

that was going to make you miss very often because he out-quicked you, right? He was going to run through you and run over you. And running backs do that by lowering their pads, right? Because you're able to, if you're coming to tackle me, I lower my pads, I meet your contact, you're going to bounce off me and I'll keep running. Or I'm going to hot kind of, you know, get my knees up

and you're going to miss a tackle if you go to take my legs out. If you're running high up in the air you don't present a physical blunt to anyone trying to tackle you because you can't get low enough to to you know to kind of deflect that contact so that that's the problem with running so high okay well that taught me a little bit of something um one way to tackle people to the ground is what Matt Jones tried to do. Yeah. You could also just grab a guy by the ankle when he doesn't know that there's even a play going on and then twist it and turn it and lean your weight on it and pull him to the ground trying to injure him. That's what you can do if you're a rookie quarterback, just turn the ball over and

thought that was how you were going to get a shot in against a defender. So the Patriots win because, of course. So now they're winners of the last three, four out of five. They're five and four. They're sitting in a wildcard spot, I guess, technically through the math. But man, the dirty tricks and the Patriot way just sort of never go away. We finally got a break from it. And now here we are with people saying this is 2001 all over again, man. It's all defense game and a rookie who just manages the game we're gonna do it again i'm like yeah yeah it's 2001 it's more like 2010 or 11 or 12 we're like you just do dirty

crap why do we have to live through this for another decade well matt jones twisting of his ankle had nothing to do with the with the game I mean, I know. It's just the culture, man. It's just so gross. It is. It's do whatever you have to do to win. And look, that was a dirty play. Shouldn't have done it. I don't think it was as vicious as Gabe would like to make it out.

I mean, the way Gabe talks about it was freaking Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. But it wasn't. I don't know. I'm just listening to the other NFL players who are chiming in on it. You know, I try to look things, not contrarian, but a little bit different than everyone else. I did not think that he like, like was in there like, I've seen ankles twisted before.

Most often the guy's not moving and you twist his ankle. I think Burns tried to get off of him and like, he just was like gator rolling and just like, they kind of just went opposite directions and he twisted and should have done it. Should have let him go like that. I agree with that part. And I'm sure he'll get fined for it. And he should have done it. He should have let him go. I agree with that part.

And I'm sure he'll get fined for it, and he'll be labeled a dirty player. And we'll have to live with that. But New England's playing good football right now. And Mac Jones is the best working quarterback at the moment. And they're playing good defense. And they will be a playoff team this year. And we all kind of laughed at Bill Belichick, said he couldn't coach anymore. What?

I didn't do that. But a lot of people said he couldn't coach anymore and blah, blah, blah, blah. And guess what? Guy can still coach a little bit and they can still play a little bit of defense and they're getting better each week, which is what you want to do as you move toward an eventual postseason run. And this doesn't, it's not 2001.

They're not good enough everywhere else. You know, at that time, the Patriots kind of, you know, they were a defensive-minded team and Tom Brady rode that defense to the Super Bowl. This is not that game. This is not that team. So they'll make a playoffs probably as a wild card, but not to do any damage. Okay.

Well, that's terrible to hear. What? They'll make the playoffs and not do anything? I don't want them to make the playoffs, Jeff. You know, what's complicated about this? Maybe the Jets can make the playoffs. See, you know, I've become, as You know, what's complicated? Maybe the Jets can make the playoffs. See, you know, I've become, as you know,

a Chargers fan, so I don't care what the Jets do or don't do. But, you know, the Patriots are out there always haunting me. They even came and beat the Chargers, so I can't get away from them.

Did you go to the Chargers-Patriots game? No, I did not go to that. Just be honest with you. When Mike White came out on Thursday night and led that opening drive, you were sucked a little bit back into the Jets, weren't you?

No. In fact, my children, the game was on, and my children asked, Daddy, are we rooting for the blue team? Or I think they were wearing white. Or the white team. And I said, neither, actually. We aren't rooting for either of these terrible teams.

The Colts are wearing all blue. Yeah. And I said, our team will play't rooting for either of these terrible teams we call to work all blue yeah I said our team will play on Sunday we can root for the blue team then and they accepted that they're not going to be Jets fans but more to the point they will always be Patriots haters because this is just sort of the way it is now and so when Belichick is presented with this very fair critique that it was a dirty play. His excuse is, oh, my quarterback thought he had the ball. And it's just, there's never any acknowledgement that, like, maybe we're on to something asking you this, Bill. It's just this indignant, how dare you even suggest we were doing something dirty

when they're always doing something dirty. Did you see what Belichick wore to the game, by the way? Yes, of course so he doesn't he doesn't give any any fricks what anyone has to say about his team he doesn't care doesn't care just wants to win doesn't care do you think they can beat the bills who now look very beatable because the jags beat them they have two games left against them please tell me that they aren't going to beat the bills so those games would be like nine to six just like the other game against jacksonville bill's offense is a little bit shaky.

I'm actually surprised to see it this year, but their offense just has not been as good as it has in previous years, really just last year. And they keep just having mistakes made, and Josh Allen threw an interception to Josh Allen, which was a terrible interception. Bad loss by Buffalo. And it gave people the opportunity to brag about Urban Meyer,

which is silly because I'm not sure Urban won that game. He won 9-6. Yeah, it was brutal. I mean, nobody should have liked anything coming out of that game. The weird thing about it was it wasn't a weather issue. How do you get a 9-6 game with the Bills offense on the field? I just didn't understand that. It brings up a question I have for you.

I kind of feel like this is just a thing people like me say dummies who don't actually know how football works but i hear people like you say it too is there really such a thing as a trap game in the nfl like shouldn't these guys just be ready for everything no matter who they just played okay well i mean i i so trap game is interesting i think it's more way more in college football than in the NFL. But I think there is a sense, I talked about this with the Bengals losing to the Jets, where you just, it's a grind every week. And some weeks you look at the schedule and your opponent, you're like,

I just don't have to maybe play as hard this week. I prepare quite the same. I can just go there and just roll my helmet out because I'm the Buffalo Bills or I'm the Cincinnati Bengals and we're going to win just because we're better coached and more talented. One of the Jacksonville

Jaguars players said after the game, they looked at the sidelines during the game and the Bills were dead. There was no energy, no juice, and they kind of knew

at that point they had them. And yes, I don't think it was a trap game. That refers like, for example, Oregon this weekend.

They play Washington State at home in between Washington and Utah. That's a trap game. That refers like, for example, Oregon this weekend. They play Washington State at home in between Washington and Utah. That's a trap game. That's a night game, pack after dark at home. Trap game. That wasn't a trap game for Buffalo. They're not looking ahead to who they play this week. They weren't looking ahead to the Jets.

They came out with not enough juice, and it's an NFL game. And every week, there are NFL players. If you don't come out with juice, man, Jacksonville wants to win too. They're playing to win. The players are playing to win. They're going to try to beat you. Yeah, well, I'm not ruling the Bills dead yet. They still obviously have a defense.

They're not dead. Yeah, the offense went away. I guess I have to be a Bills fan in a way to make sure that the Patriots don't win this division for like the 900th time in my lifetime. Hank, our producer, you know, who probably can't even buy a beer legally yet, is he's never lived in a world without the Patriots being dominant. Like he was born like right as the Brady era began. And now he's going to have this next decade or two of the Mac Jones era where they're probably going to win six more rings. And, you know, I'll just continue to be miserable. And I just I Jeff, I just I spotted all this video and I was like, this is a thing. And then more and more angles of the Mac stuff came out. And I don't know why we're thinking this guy isn't like all the rest of the Patriots

in the past. Like they'll just do whatever, no matter how dirty it is, and then deny responsibility when they're confronted about it. And he'll just be the next in the line of thinking that way. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. I mean, Saban must have vouched for him and said, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Don't worry, Bill. He's one of us. Must have been. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. He is now a Patriot and it happened fast. Yeah. All right.

Well, we also learned, by the way, Sam Darnold, I know fantasy players were excited about him the first few weeks. He ain't it. I told you Yeah. All right. Well, we also learned, by the way, Sam Darnold, I know fantasy players were excited about him the first few weeks. He ain't it. I told you guys. Come on. They're going to be drafting a quarterback this year

and who knows who they'll end up with. There's actually a good one in their state right now, right? The kid over Sam Howell over at North Carolina, maybe he'll end up a Panther. Yes, but there's not a year for a quarterback in the first round. They should have taken one last year. Like I said, it made no sense to take it.

And they guaranteed him next season, by the way. He's guaranteed for next season. This is a really stupid move for them. Yeah. All right. Well, other stupid things to discuss when we move the line. That's our next segment. A little over-under game.

So let's take a quick break, Jeff. Teaser for you. We're talking about Russell Wilson and succession all at the same time. Normally, I cram succession into the show this week. Russell Wilson did it for me. So we'll do that next. All right, Jeff,

we're back. We're moving the line. Our little, uh, betting segment. None of these are real this week. The, I want to know over under 60% chance.

The Cardinals would beat the bucks. If they met in the playoffs based on what we've seen so far. Edge Cardinals, do you agree or disagree? I've never been against Tom Brady in the playoffs, so the answer would be no. Great. We took a break from Brady and we're right back here talking about Brady. I, Jeff Schwartz, fantasy genius, has James Conner on my team as my third running back. So genius, I believe,'m going i would go with

by title i have i had a good very good week in fantasy i had lamar justin jefferson alvin camara hunter renfro uh james connor patriots defense justin tucker hard to stop yeah i don't i don't really want to hear about it because i had the best week i've had all year long in fantasy. You lost. And I went up against a juggernaut that included Lamar, and I lost. You mentioned James Conner. First of all, he runs more upright than Adrian Peterson. I don't quite understand it.

He runs like he's trying to stick his neck straight up. It's really bizarre. Here's the thing that sort of dawned on me watching him play so well in Arizona, where he wasn't even a guaranteed starter after being a backup in Pittsburgh, but putting up numbers. It's sort of the same point that you've made to me many times in the past, which is like, don't overpay running backs. Because the way I would put it is like, there's about 64 guys on earth who can do the job that 32 guys are required to have. Right. Like there's always a few people who could probably step into the right offense and run the ball well and score you some touchdowns.

So why ever pay one guy to do something two or three guys might be able to do? Am I wrong? Exactly. That's what I said. That's why you don't pay running backs. Yeah, because I mean, he's having a nice year, but I don't know. Didn't the guy last year have a pretty good year in this offense? And won't whoever it is next year have a pretty good year? James Conner, good for him for putting up numbers, but he's nothing special as a runner, is he? No. No. Okay.

So you still like the Bucs, but the Cardinals look good. And you have to admit, seeing that offense work with Col mccoy against a defense that doesn't totally suck in the niners that has to make you wonder if maybe cliff kingsbury has turned a corner no a little bit it does and i said last that i never thought i would i would praise kingsbury as a better coach of kyle shannon who by the way kyle shannon stock is taking a nose dive i mean that that guy the niners freaking suck. And you got smoked by Cardinals team missing Nuke Hopkins and Kyler Murray. And it was very, very bad if you're the Niners.

Shanahan, I think, has 17 and 39 to take out the Super Bowl year or something like that, or 19 and 37. Like, that's not good. No. No, it hasn't been great. I got a theory about this young wave of coaches. I'm going to include Shanahan in it,

but definitely LaFleur, McVay, uh, maybe Zach Taylor. I can't quite say for sure. Not Brandon Staley to some degree, Mike Vrabel, even though he's kind of an old school guy,

all of these guys, unlike Bill Belichick, who shows up looking like he could barely get out of bed. These guys have meticulously groomed facial hair so much. So that I wonder if they're spending their time in the wrong place. Have you noticed the insane grooming techniques of some of these coaches? They want to look good because that is what their generation does. They just want to look good.

I mean, if you look like Kingsbury, wouldn't you want to look good on the sidelines? Kingsbury's an overrated man. I've been saying this for a long time. People act like he's a nine. Kingsbury's a six at best. At best. Take those cool shades off. He's a very average looking guy.

Interesting. Yeah, the beard thing is in, man. They're very manly, very masculine. Very masculine. I see what you're doing. See, you're bringing back something from before we were recording. It's not worth bringing up on the air.

Not on a football show, but we need to bring the manliness back in this country, Gabe. We have to do it. It has to happen. I guess apparently perfectly groomed facial hair is the thing that will do the job. That's the trend in the NFL among young coaches.

All right. Over under 20% chance Von Miller was actually holding back the Broncos this whole time. Ewing theory in play in Denver. What the hell was with their defense against the Cowboys? Is Bill Simmons' biggest contribution to our sports culture the Ewing theory? It's one of his better ideas. I mean, it has to be. I mean, no, we're getting Ewing theory

with Derrick Henry, possibly. And not with a defensive end, no. But what does explain it, honestly? Like, I've heard things that maybe Von Miller like lost the locker room. Like, why was it just one game they looked better? Why did they look like so much better of a defense? Oh, the Cowboys, like Dak just look like shit and the cowboys so

they're missing left tackle and when tarant smith is out they're 13 and 15 now when he plays they're like 79 61 like that's ridiculous they need to find some answers when he's out that's more to do with it than the broncos just being better on defense so is he one of those guys this is more of a thursday show thing for you is he's one of those guys tarn sm more of a Thursday show thing for you, is he's one of those guys, Tarn Smith, who is worth more than the barely noticeable line shift that comes with him being in or out. He very clearly is with the Cowboys. So he's worth

a point or two, and if you see he's out, you should go against the Cowboys, is what you're telling me. Yes. We knew their line mattered a lot to what they hoped to do. Now Zeke is also obviously hurt. They're 6-2. I don't know.

I haven't believed in the Cowboys all year long. I still don't. I don't think they're as bad as they looked yesterday or Sunday. But Cowboys, long term, you still hot on them mostly? I'm not hot on anyone anymore because all these teams, I have no idea what to believe after this week. Oh, you're just bailing overall. You're just a nihilist now.

Yes. Okay. Why was Dak still in the game in the fourth quarter? Seems silly. He played better in the fourth quarter. Maybe he had some confidence. Some confidence, just like that Mahomes point from earlier. Maybe. Okay. Alright, here's a weird one. There's all these free Odell shirts on players

all around the league. Guys, he's free. He got his freedom. He's a free agent. He can do what he wants now. There's no movement left to free him from the evils of Cleveland. He can go wherever. So I guess I want to know a few teams over or under 50% chance OBJ signs with, let's try the Seahawks on you. It seems like he wants to go to the Seahawks.

Well, sure. Why wouldn't he? I don't think so. No? Not the Seahawks. We're going to say under on 50% there. What about, because it always happens, some rehab guy like this goes to the frigging Patriots. Any chance he goes there?

No. Probably, I don't. The Seahawks and Patriots are two good locker rooms to go to where I don't think Odell's a locker room problem, but I think he's a guy that is not number one wide receiver anymore who thinks he's the number one guy that has to accept he's not number one wide receiver anymore. And going to a locker room that has good culture will help that.

And Seattle and New England would help that. You have here the Saints. The Saints would be helpful as well. I don't think he's going to the Packers or the Chiefs. I don't think he's going there. Your boy Nick the Chiefs. I don't think he's going there. Your boy Nick Wright really wants him to go to the Chiefs. He's got the mayor of Kansas City in on it. That's not going to work.

Not going to work. No. Okay. You've been telling us they need a number two for a long time. He would be a good number two. I don't think that's – not now. I would not add him to the team. The problem is not – I mean, there are some issues with drops.

Not now. I would not add him to the team. The problem is not is, I mean, there are some issues with drops, but Pat Mahomes has got to focus on getting back to his normal self first. All right. We've gone a long time without talking about the AFC North here, so I want to bring it up again. They once again are bailed out by their stupid kicker.

80% confidence the Ravens win the NFC North. The rest of that division is really, really confusing. They're 6-2. But my concern with the Ravens, obviously, is all the injuries they have, right? A lot of injuries. And Lamar is holding this team together by a threat. He's playing some good football. They've won two games in overtime,

which is impressive, but that obviously is hard to sustain. They lost to one in week one in overtime as well. Kansas City, they should have lost to Kansas City. They should have lost to Detroit. I mean, I just, I don't buy the Browns either, really. Also with the Ravens, but it probably will end up actually being Cleveland. Cleveland.

Interesting. Now, you shared with me the Baker cycle, which was a fun image. And it basically shows him getting offended and irritated by the media and then playing his mind out for a game and then going through a cycle of basically failure and doubt and then people criticizing him and then him getting angry enough again to win a game and then losing a few and then around and around it goes. Where do you think we are with baker for the rest of this year can he somehow keep it in the angry but winning phase i think i think he just i think he just played the inferior opponent part of that phase right yeah he did yeah so it's play it's play like shit criticized by media underdog mentality beat inferior opponent call out doubters play like shit so this week he's starting to call people out now so this it's coming around

it's going to be it's going to be back to being bad Baker soon. Okay. All right. Well, we'll keep an eye on that. They play New England this weekend. Yeah, that's going to be an interesting game. There's going to be a lot of talk about, did you know Bill Belichick used to be in Cleveland?

We're going to hear that a lot. He's not going to play well. I wouldn't think so. He does not seem like someone Bill Belichick's going to struggle with confusing. No. No. Okay. I didn't know what's going to struggle with confusing. No. Okay. I didn't know what the hell to make of this.

I think our whole crew was confused when Russell Wilson posted a Succession-themed video about his imminent return. His finger apparently is healed after some surgery. He shared this crazy-ass video on his own Twitter account, cut to the theme song of Succession, which is a banger, by the way. But the video made almost no sense. I don't understand the analogy. I don't understand if there's a deeper meaning. What are the percent chances Russ even watched the video himself before he shared it and gets what he's referencing in making this video? There's nothing he says on back.

Like, it's just a video of him rehabbing and that picture of him in his uniform like i don't quite understand what what like i don't his his logo is weird too yeah everything about what he's doing from a brand perspective is very strange he's just a different cat this is what it is well okay but so he's the news is according to schfter and others, that he is coming back. So we've got a whole second half of a season with Russell Wilson,

a team that's not very good but could screw up a few other people's seasons. Is there anything to root for in Seattle this year with Russ back? Yeah, they're going to be competitive each week as they always are with Russ. And you think he's there long term? I think this is his he's winding down his time in seattle i i don't think he's there long term no okay all right speaking of long term long time waiting now to find out

if barry bonds your hero uh will ever end up in the hall of Fame. And this is his last year of eligibility on the ballot. He has yet to be voted in. We all know why he's being treated this way. Obviously, notoriously, the Balco scandal and all the cheating that was uncovered. Never tested positive. So, yeah, I guess over under 1% chance Barry gets voted in in his final chance at it. No, there's no chance. He will get voted in by the Veterans Committee, in my opinion, or whatever the committee is that does that.

You think they'll backdoor him in eventually? Yeah. And I'm a very big Barry Bonds fan. Before he started using steroids in 2000, 99, 2000. So he would take 86 to 98. He won, I believe it was three MVPs, eight Golden Gloves.

He had 400 home runs, 400 stolen bets. He's a Hall of Famer before the steroids. I know it kind of tainted his career, if you believe that. He only hit, by the way, over 50 home runs one time in his career. The year he hit 73. by the way over 50 home runs one time in his career the year he had 73 he never had over 50 the rest of the time in in uh in in uh in in 10 years ago

but my problem with this the way we talk about barry bonds is that the same writers who will not vote him into the hall of fame cheered the steroid era profited off the steroid era covered it it revived baseball and y'all loved every single home run that he hit and you didn't care if you didn't steroids then and now all of a sudden he becomes

you know a person that we could never put in the Hall of Fame the Hall of Fame to me is a story of of baseball right

and to not put bonds in there is ignoring an entire story of baseball I've said this for the longest time that with the steroid era because we don't know who used there will be players in the hall of fame who have used steroids there are players now that have used steroids um and it was not illegal i'll take

it back it was illegal but they didn't test for it baseball did not test for it till congress got involved so why did we give a shit if baseball didn't care like that's baseball did not care why do you care now okay but the bar should be higher for people you suspect to use steroids right because if their careers are only good because of steroids then they're out but we know bombs the hall of honor before everyone acknowledges that even the harshest critic to barry bonds like hall of honor before steroids well then why is that in the hall of fame like Like, come on, guys. He hit home runs off pitchers who were using steroids. And one of the best at-bats ever,

Paul Oduka, who we know very well, he was the catcher for this at-bat. Eric Gagne, Barry Bonds. 101 miles an hour, like eight straight times in a row. And Bonds eventually took him yard. Like, we loved all of that. And now all of a sudden, we're not gonna vote him in the Hall of Fame.

All right, cool. Like, it's, i think it's bs but i think he gets in with the veterans committee eventually yeah i i agree with pretty much every word of what you just said and i would only add on that like he's the best baseball player i've ever seen play period like all around best five tool player ever for about 20 years and single handedly made baseball exciting right at the time when we were all kind of going to have enough of it. And to hold him out, you can put all the asterisks and explanations and put him in his own wing. If you could do whatever you want, but if the hall of fame means anything, Barry Bonds just has to be in it with the qualifiers attached if you want. It's just so silly.

Like, there's so much good watching him play baseball for 20 or so years there to just pretend it didn't happen. And then and meanwhile, still take seriously these debates about some of the guys you see on the ballot now. And it's like, I don't know, is this guy a Hall of Famer? Like, what the are we really talking about? I don't want to single anyone out, but like guys who were at best,

at best top 25 guy in any given year and we're pretending they might be Hall of Famers, but Barry Bonds isn't, it's a joke. Yeah, I mean, there's going to be, like David Ortiz, for example, is going to be up for Hall of Fame induction soon. He's going to get in because the media likes him. I mean, he's going to be, like David Ortiz, for example, is going to be up for Hall of Fame induction soon. He's going to get in because the media likes him. I mean, he's been on the Mitchell Report.

There's been so many questions about his steroid use. I'm very certain a lot of other steroid users are in the Hall of Fame. Let me just look around who's made the Hall of Fame and the era they're in. Everyone laughed at Jose Canseco for saying 75% of the players were using. I think he's close to being right. It feels like that was sort of the number of guys that were using steroids. And I just don't get, lastly here,

this very much triggers people, but there's not even a question. Barry Bonds was a better baseball player than Ken Griffey Jr. Get over it, everyone. It's not close. Yes, Ken Griffey Jr. has a sweet swing. Yes, maybe he never took steroids.

I don't know. I don't know, by the way, how you just excuse anyone during the era of never taking steroids i don't know how we do that so so easily oh he never took them i don't know like if if like we we know that like alex arregas was on his team he was using steroids at the time you tell me jay buehner like all these other guys that were on that team were using but but he wasn't i'm not again i'm not accusing griffey of using steroids but the idea that we just so easily dismiss certain guys because we like their swing or because they smile and we like them a lot where other guys screw you barry bonds i don't like

that logic again full cosine on every word of that and and griffey might have been a more likable guy but he wasn't a better baseball player. We've got to assume that everyone with huge, massive success and longevity in that era may have taken something at some point. You can't rule it out because they'd be crazy not to when you think about how the sport was going. Yeah, maybe that was unfair to guys, and maybe nobody should have been put in the position where they had to take these drugs to keep up with the competition. That's a different argument. You know, that that does suck that some guys felt like their career was in jeopardy if they didn't do what they had to do.

But but they did. And so, you know, I don't know. I we're not here to talk about baseball, but I know Bonds means a lot to you. And I think he deserves to be in. So we'll have to keep close an eye on that one uh as official eligibility will end this year so jeff you got a thursday show to make some bets i know you're you're still hot on the pac-12 how we doing in the nfl two or three this week yeah pac-12 was kind of saving me i'm 22 and nine in the pac-12 so we're uh we're rolling right along in the pac-12 uh we'll get

some the nfl this year has just been you know most years if you have a bad year you just everyone just craps on you on Twitter, but everyone else is also having a bad season. So no one's doing that at all. Everyone's just having a terrible season. The NFL. We'll be back on Thursday. As usual,

we're powered by the varsity podcast network. Talk to you guys on Thursday. Have a great couple of days.