Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Free Agency Recap, Shedeur Sweepstakes, Bengals Pay Up

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

We may be betting on college basketball, but we're talking football as always! Did the Bengals make a mistake by paying both their WRs? What's the latest on the QBs in the draft? And what is the latest on hotel furniture?Listen to us on Cooler and subscribe to Pine sports using promo code "Geoff" for 50% off!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's Thursday, March 20th. I'm Jeff Schwartz. That is Mad For You. This is Jeff Schwartz, a smart new. We'll get to all the football discussion. We'll talk about some March madness is currently on as we record this, but I got to talk to my dad, Lee Schwartz.

This will be the end of the show. He wrote a book called Raising Giants. It is a memoir about his time. Still going on as a dad of my brother and I, NFL players, two players that went to college, two players that played high school football obviously in our journey through that process through the eyes of my dad, stories that that he he will tell from his perspective a little different obviously than my brother and I and how we saw things throughout our careers so make sure to

check that out it's on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble, it's paperback, it's Kindle, wherever you see it. The interview will air at the end of the show. So make sure to stay tuned to check that out. It is March Madness. We have three games going on right now. I don't know if you're watching them as we talk. I am, I have wages.

I'm doing well in one. I'm doing okay in the other one. I'm probably not good in the third game, Matt. I know we were talking earlier today about brackets. You came up with a great podcast idea, though. We should do this next year for real. It's like, I watch a lot of college basketball post-Super Bowl, but I'm not like as dialed in as most are.

You, I think, only follow Maryland. But we want to participate in these bracket pools. And of course, 15 minutes before they're due, you'd go online and you'd try to just fill them out and you wanna win money, of course, right? Meaning most of them are for money. And your idea was there needs to be a podcast for just casuals that just goes over every game

and gives you a pick. Yeah, and like in the years past, those have happened. But this year, I felt like I was listening to every podcast on my way into work, my way home from work for like the last two days. And all of them are these like, well, you know, like if this happens and this happens, like I just never, it was all these like macro storylines and never just like, Hey, who's going to win the Purdue game? Like just give me the, just give me the answer. Like I don't need to know like

all this highfalutin stats. Just tell me what's a good pick and a dumb pick. I would have told you Purdue. I would have told you Purdue. Yeah, I wouldn't have needed your help on Purdue, I don't think. I would have picked Crane, who is now up 15 on Louisville, and I probably would have picked Wisconsin against Montana. I mean, no surprise there, obviously.

Yeah, but everyone loved Louisville because this game, the only thing I knew about this game was it's in Lexington. That's the only thing I knew about it. And I was like, well, it's a home game. That's an easy one. And they're down by a thousand in the first 10 minutes. Awesome. Yeah, cause Crane hit a thousand threes.

I mean, college basketball, here's my college basketball take. It actually, I think is an unwatchable sport if not for the final five minutes of games. If the games weren't hectic to end, we wouldn't watch college basketball. It's not a well-played sport. I mean, it's a lot of teams just shoot a ton of threes now.

And there are like four teams that can play defense and make shots, that's it. But because these games, Matt, the last five minutes are a wreck. None of these teams know how to finish. They do dumb things, they miss a bunch of shots, they, you know, choke's the wrong word because they're college, you know, they're young.

If the last five minutes of these games wasn't wild and crazy, I think none of us would like to watch this sport. Is that a wild take? No, I don't think so. I think what bothers me about it now is, I used to be a huge college basketball fan, and it's just turned into like bad NBA in a lot of ways.

Like it's just like, it's like, oh, we're sitting in the corner, we're hitting, we're missing our threes. We're hitting 28% of our threes instead of 35% of our threes. And it's just like, okay. But you know, I don't know. It was nice. I was watching, you know, anyone watching this right now

bless you, thank you for watching. There's the most enjoyable sporting event of all time to watch at the same time. So those of you watching live on YouTube and X, we appreciate you. But I don't know, when I was watching earlier, like I did see somebody pull up from a mid range and like try like one of those like off balance shots.

And I was like, I haven't, I watched the NBA, like, I don't know, a couple nights a week. You don't see that anymore. You honestly just don't see it ever. And it was kind of refreshing. Well, the thing about basketball that's interesting is I actually don't mind the three or layup mentality. Alabama, right?

That's how they play basketball, right? It's three or layup, that's it, right? And some of the smaller schools do that as well, because that's just what they are built. They don't have play basketball, right? It's three-year layup, like that's it, right? And some of the smaller schools do that as well, because that's just what they are built, like they don't have big men, right? So they just have to chuck threes or go to paint. And like, I get it, analytically, taking mid-race jumpers is not smart.

But the thing is though, Matt, at the end of these games in crunch time, you need to make two pointers. Yep, same with the NBA. Yeah, and the NBA, and that's what it's like in the playoffs, when these crunch, when the last two minutes of a game, yes, guys can make threes, they often do,

but the guys that make those mid-range twos are the ones that win championships. But it's not how I would build a team to play the regular season though. It's like that I think is like the crux. And that's what happens at any of these college games is some of these teams just don't ever focus on the mid range.

And then it's like, oh, I gotta make a couple of mid range shots to end the game. And they're just like nowhere close to being in. So I mean, dude just missing dunks everywhere. This guy I bet on to go over his point total like Wisconsin's leading score just, oh, that's a foul dunks everywhere. This guy had bet on to go over his point total, like Wisconsin's leading the score, just, oh, that's a foul, I should have called that. All right, and the officiating stinks,

but we can get to that in a little bit. Actually, I will wager on women's college basketball too. It's not a bad sport to wager on. It's a great tournament this year. And a lot of times the favorite is just kick butt. That's part of it as well. I think UConn's favored by 48 and a half, which is the funniest, 48 and a half, which is the funniest.

48 and a half, Matt, they can win the game 87 to like 35, and you're like, oh, that's, oh, yeah, I gotta sweat that one out there. It's crazy. Okay, nonetheless, let's get to football. Matt, the biggest storyline I believe is the Bengals signed both wide receivers, T. Higgins and Jamar Chase,

to about $70 million combined average per year, $10 million more than the next team, which is the Philadelphia Eagles. Yeah, it was, a lot of people thought it wouldn't happen. I thought the big wide receiver news was that the commanders just signed Michael Gallup, but we could talk about T. Higgins. Yeah, it was a lot of people thought it wouldn't happen. I thought the big wide receiver news was that the commanders just signed Michael Gallup. But we could talk about T Higgins and Jamar Chase.

I guess they're slightly better. There was a lot of talk about whether it was going to be a good deal for the bangles or a bad deal. If they're notorious frugals, to maybe put it politely, would actually be an asset for them here. But they went ahead and did it. It probably actually freed up some space for this year. So there's a lot of talk of maybe this actually does mean Trey Hendrickson will get extended instead of traded. But I don't know, were you surprised to hear that they were both extended? No, I wasn't surprised to hear that. You know, what's interesting about this is

the talk about the positives of this deal, if you're a Bengals fan, it's like less about the players and more about the Bengals changing their business structure because for years they just didn't do this matt They don't sign their own players and don't give them guaranteed money past a year or two And so this is the this is the bangles changing their business model And I think that's right to draft And then develop and sign players. I absolutely do except this is more expensive than paying these guys last year

But I come back to this, Matt. Joe Burrow is supposed to be, and I think we all agree, one of the better core backs in the NFL. And he should be able to elevate the team around him, you know, like wide receivers around him, or really elevate those guys that he plays with, to a new stratosphere, he's that good. So the question becomes this, Matt, okay?

Is it better for the Bengals long-term to have let T. Higgins be traded, take those draft picks and the money saved and use them to build up the defense or get a guard? You know what I mean? Like in the end is Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase plus someone else and then you add in two defensive pieces and two more draft picks.

Is that a better roster makeup to win a championship or is what they're trying to do now, which is basically we're spending 70 million dollars on two wide receivers. We have Joe Burrow and we have a very young defense that has to be developed. Like which option wins more championships? And there's not one way to win a championship.

But again, I would argue that Joe Burrows go up to elevate everyone around him. The Bengals just have to, do they have to hit home runs on defense? Like they have to hit all their draft picks on defense for this to work. Yeah. And that's one of the things about the Bengals

that is worth mentioning is, you know, there's a lot of talk about like, you know Caps based and draft picks how much they matter or don't matter but you look back at these drafts that the Bengals have had other than those three guys burrow Higgins and Chase and You know the the occasional chase Brown like in their last couple years They'd haven't they don't have a ton to show for in the draft, right? in their last couple of years, they don't have a ton to show for in the draft, right? They have a couple of drafts where, like the 22 draft, they draft Daxton Hill in the first round,

Taylor Britt in the second round, and then some guys I've not heard of for the rest of the draft, 23, Miles Murphy, DJ Turner, Jordan Battle, Charlie Jones, Chase Brown in round five was a nice pick. Like, the thing that they really have to do, they have to start just hitting their picks. Just like we were talking about with Philly and KC

and all these other teams, like if you're missing on multiple swings year after year after year on the defensive side, it's not necessarily Luanne Rumo's fault, right? Like you gotta just make some of these picks and land them. And I think on its face that the Higgins thing, you had to extend Chase, right? just make some of these picks and land them. This means that it can't work. Higgins is one of the five best players on your team. It also makes a statement to not only to Joe Burrow,

who put the pressure on the Bengals to actually spend some money, but honestly to the rest of the league a contender. And to be honest, like in the AFC North, it's Baltimore. Like what is Pittsburgh? Right? Like Cleveland's going to be in a funk now for a couple of years. Cause this Watson thing, like those three guys should theoretically be enough to get you, you know, as close to the playoffs as you can get with a pretty, you know, with a terrible defense that That happened last year.

So they just kind of nailed their picks. I don't have any issue with this signing. I actually thought it was smart. Well, I think it's just too late. They should have done this last year, which would have made more sense financially, right? You know, people will point to the Eagles, right? DeVante Smith and A.J. Brown,

they paid DeVae Smith early, it's why he's cheaper, right? That's a big reason for their success. And it's worked, as we mentioned, when the Eagles won the Super Bowl, we went through their roster, it's worked because they've hit super duper home runs in the draft, right?

With all the young defensive players. Their defense this season is almost all young guys. It's gonna be again this year, right? Then they got rid of Darius Slay and Gardner Johnson with all the young defensive play like their defense this season is almost all young guys like it's going to be and it's going to Be again this year, right? then they got rid of darry slay and garter johnson and The reason they did all that is because they have These young guys that they've drafted and hit home runs with and they spent those draft picks very very well So that that is something that again have to do it

So it's not it's not just a bangles thing right? Like this is what all teams do when they pay their quarterback. It's just wide receiver is I Go back and forth between the premium position or not Matt right like Jamar chase is a premium player Yeah, and I think you have to have guys like that But my point about burrow is like I keep keep hearing, I agree with everyone who says Burrow is fantastic. But that means that they should be able to build without having two high price wide receivers, right? And you can spend elsewhere and build the team around,

around the quarterback being so good. I mean, it's a Chiefs model, right? Essentially, which again, I'm not saying everyone has to follow the Chiefs model, but that's what they did, right? It's a Terekeo buy and use a draft pick to draft an all pro corner. Now they hit on a draft model, right? Essentially, which again, I'm not saying everyone has to follow the Chiefs model, but that's what they did, right? Is it to every kill buy and use a draft pick to draft an all pro corner. Now they hit the hit on the draft pick, right?

So again, I don't want to be talking about it two sides of my mouth here because I like the draft and develop part of this. Like I've said this for years, that you have to hide how you build a team, but we just don't have a lot of evidence of this specific thing working, especially when last year,

the Bengals' defense was so bad with these wide receivers on the roster, right? Like they were that bad with these guys. Are the Bengals better right now than they were to end the season? Probably not, but they were right there. And famously everyone was sort of like, well, you know, they don't the chiefs don't want to see us in the playoffs. And it's like everyone would have been fine seeing them in the playoffs, because they

couldn't play defense. And look, defenses can turn around in a hurry. We see it all the time. Like every couple years, there's one of those things like, you know, there's there's a Zach Bond every year. There's there's somebody like that every year who just pops up. But the Bengals have to, you know, they've turned things around on sort of the narrative

of their team, but they need to find some guys on defense. Like, the assignment's pretty clear. What they're banking on too, they hired Al Golden, defensive coordinator, who's with No Name Irish. And he did a great job in No Name, right? And he was with the Bengals before and they did develop talent pretty well.

I think they're counting on that, right, Matt? They're counting on the development of talent from Al Golden coming as defensive coordinator. So that's, I mean, look, it's about, I think they've spent eight draft picks in the last three years on top three rounds of defense. They've tried to make it better, so they just have to do it.

They just have to develop those guys. So curious to see obviously how that goes for them. They do talk a big game though for having like one nothing though. It's so funny to me, dude. Their fans are like, I'm like, guys, the NFL is a year to year league. I had fans, well, they went to the Super Bowl four years,

like that was four years ago. Yeah. It's four years ago now, four seasons ago, 2021. The NFL is not the same anymore. You can't just, you roll the same thing back, expect it to be the same next season. So obviously we'll see how it goes. I don't know.

I mean, we'll find out pretty quickly if this works or not. Yeah. Well, speaking of finding out whether it'll work, there's a couple of teams in quarterback limbo. We don't have to talk too much about Aaron Rodgers because God, that guy has taken up too much oxygen in the sports media world. But we're at this sort of impasse right now because god, that guy has taken up too much oxygen

in the sports media world. We're at this impasse right now for the Steelers, the Giants, the Browns. Everyone's kind of in a holding pattern, it seems like, until maybe even after the draft. The Vikings said today that Rogers is not in their plans, that they're going to go with J.J. McCarthy, which isn't a surprise. It's almost more of a surprise that they had to say that. So I don't know, I guess like my question really is, should the Giants just sign Russell Wilson now? Like should one of these teams just get on the board and take themselves out of there and Roger sweepstakes

and just sort of like let the marriage solve itself? Like I kind of think it's time to just make a move and get your off season going, right? Yeah. The Giants and Steelers are kind of in a bad spot. No kidding. Having to wait for Aaron Rodgers, who doesn't, I think Rodgers really was hoping that Minnesota

would be the place, because look at Minnesota right now, right, look at the same team they bring back, but I think better. They've made some adjustments to the offensive line and defensive line. It's a great place to be, but the Vikings smartly said, we're out of the Ann Rogers business.

Why would they want Ann, for one more year, you drafted McCarthy, you have to play McCarthy. Like you gotta play him, Matt. They don't know what they have in him. They should not have moved off their priors. He hasn't even played yet. Now he lost an entire year. He didn't practice.

Like he might be behind. It might take a couple of weeks for him to get going, but you drafted him to play and you have to play him. So I'm not surprised that they are out of the Rogers business. Like that makes a ton of sense to me. The Steelers, I don't think the Steelers want to be the second option for Brian Rogers. I don't think they want to wait for Rogers, but they don't think the Steelers want to be the second option

for Brandon Rodgers. I don't think they want to wait for Rodgers, but they don't have a choice, because what their choice right now is Russell Wilson, go back to Russell Wilson, who they don't like, or play Mason Rudolph who they just signed again. Like they're in a bad spot, and they're not in a spot to draft a quarterback.

The Giants at least at three, at least Matt, will probably end up with a quarterback, whether it's Cam Ward or Shajer Sanders. Like they can trade up, like there's options to get that guy. There's nothing for the Steelers, unless they do the same thing. The one wild card is Kirk Cousins, okay?

If the Falcons are willing to trade him, and the reason I think they've signed him is so they can just, or decided not to cut him, is they can get some, you know, they wanted some capital leave. If you trade for him, the team takes on the money, right? If you cut him, it's all your money. That's the wild card in this whole thing

is if the Giants get so desperate, they call Atlanta and say, we'll give you draft picks and we'll eat a salary to be on the roster. Like that to me feels like the maybe Matt, the one way both those teams can add to the situation. But they're in a bad place. And look, I think Rogers, what is in it for Rogers to play

for the Steelers or Giants this season? Nothing whatsoever. His legacy is never changing. He is a hall of fame quarterback, one of the best to ever play this game. Absolutely true. Do I agree with his political views? No, but that shouldn't matter

because people have different political views. It's fine. I mean, I, maybe fine is the wrong word. I disagree with a lot of what he says, but he's allowed to say those things, right, Matt? That's his own platform. He can say what he wants. That's just a fact about how good he is as a quarterback.

Nothing's gonna change his legacy. He's not winning the Super Bowl in any of those places. So like going to New York or going to Pittsburgh doesn't change his career at all. Maybe he still wants to play because he's got nothing else to do. But I don't know why Roger would choose either of these teams either.

Like I think both these organizations and Roger's would be best just not hooking up at all, just to go in their own direction and Roger starting a podcast with Blue Duck. Oh, I have a few notes on that proposal. I think Aaron Rodgers legacy is going to end up being kind of a little bit of how Favre's career ended, which was these on again, off again, retirements, his like, he was an asshole these last couple of years,

right, he was an asshole when he was in Green Bay, forced his way out of there, he had, you know, it wasn't his fault he got injured, but like, after all that, he had a lost season with the Jets and then another bad season with the Jets where he held them hostage for a whole year and they for whatever reason capitulated and they were terrible.

And I think that that's, you know, he was such an unusual personality that, you know, I will remember of course his back-to-back late career MVPs, his Super Bowl run, how for a while it felt like he might sort of be on that tier with Brady and Manning and he's close. But I think the only reason he would go back, I think is for image repair.

And I don't really think he needs, I don't think he thinks he needs to do that. But like, okay, let's say he goes to Pittsburgh, okay? And they go nine and eight, like they always do, 10 and seven, and he doesn't do any McAfee. He just does local, you local, the open locker rooms and he does his media availabilities. What's gonna change about how we feel about him?

Nothing. And by the way, we know he's not capable of a year like that, right? Like that's just not what he's gonna do. That's one thing about Pittsburgh too is like, is Pittsburgh gonna quote, quote, let him do those things? I don't think so. Because Pittsburgh to me is about,

is about the organization, the franchise, and that's not very franchise-ish. Interesting, by the way, quickly about Pittsburgh, Najee Harris signed with the Chargers. He had a quote, do you see this quote about it was following on the internet today on Chargers Team Media talking about his time in Pittsburgh. And he said basically like,

we didn't really do anything on offense. And he said that one of the things that frustrated him was there were no older players on offense that could help him learn football. And that it was a bunch of young guys and no one really knew football. He's like, we had young guys, young quarterback, like no one was there to teach us football,

which is two things, one indictment on the coordinators, but also two, like you do need veterans, like you need that leadership. That's why I talked about Joe Tooney going to Chicago, why I loved it. Like you need those guys, right? Like, you know, let me tonsil, go into the commanders.

Like you need veterans on your team to teach young guys how to play football in the National Football League. I thought that very interesting because I had not thought about it like that, but it's very true. Like Pittsburgh was a young offensive roster. And I know Russell Wilson came in and maybe made that an older roster,

but before he got there, it was young quarterback, young offensive line, young running back, young wide receivers, youngest tight end. Like all those things were there. And it's very interesting when you think about, again, roster construction, think about what he said. We need some veterans. Like we need some just guys to show us the way.

I never heard a lot of players talk about that in that way. I thought it was fairly interesting that is really interesting and it it Obviously sort of corresponds to my favorite team and what they did last year and why it worked like Jane Daniels and Bobby Wagner were hanging out. It's like that's a really good way to learn right like CJ Stroud like he was his running back his rookie year was was Devon Singletary. It's like that's a guy who played in the league a long time and Robert Woods and Dalton Schultz and tonsil obviously like maybe that is sort of a key is you know just having these high functioning you know Zach Ertz Austin Eckler for Washington last

year like these guys who can just come in and just sort of show you the way and I wonder honestly like very important what did Justin Herbert have? You know, like that's something that's kind of interesting to think about. He had Keenan Allen. And who's by his own account isn't like the most vocal guy. You know what I mean? Think about when he got to, who was his offensive line?

Wasn't old, was not an older group, was it? They sort of rebuilt that once he got there because he was. So good, yeah. Yeah, so it's interesting to think about, especially with young quarterbacks. I just know in my career how important it was. I had Jordan Gross as a young player,

and I owe a lot of my success to him, like his tutelage and his ability to just, he fixed my stance for me. He just did all these things for me and didn't have to do any of it, but he did. And I wasn't, I was just having fun on the pitch. I wasn't playing and helping the team my first year, but he just took me under his wing and it was fantastic.

And it just helped my career so much and you need those guys to do that for you. And Najeeb makes a good point. I hadn't thought about it like that. And you know, there's no team right now that I think like fits that bill, like super young that's trying to win. And part of it is you're trying to win too.

Now, if you're a young team growing together into winning, okay, that's fine. But Pittsburgh's always in win now mode, right? And they didn't really have any, those are the things. They didn't have any veterans to help him learn ball. Did it help to have defensive guys like that? Was it helpful to have a defensive lineman for you? So he said, no, not when you're young,

but he said, and it's interesting how he goes, we had a lot of guys on defense that were veterans, but he was like, they can't really help me at all. I can ask, and it's true. A defensive guy, I mean, yeah, they might tell you like, oh, this works and it doesn't work and do this young kid, but it's a lot easier hearing it from like your own coach, like your own guy in the meeting room where you're with every day and you hang out with them and whatnot.

So I find that very interesting. That's just a sidebar about the Steelers. So. That is super interesting. Yeah. Well, one of the teams we just talked about quarterback wise was the Giants. You know, the Giants,

they're the best team in the world. They're the best team in the world. They're the best team in the world. They's a sidebar about the Steelers. That is super interesting. Well, one of the teams we just talked about, quarterback wise, was the Giants. You went on First Things First with our friend Nick Wright, and you did a mock draft for them. You were the college guy for Nick and Wilds. And in that, you said that the Giants would trade up to number one to get cam

ward. So the Tennessee would move down. And then I think the big talking point was that you had Chedure going second to Cleveland. And it's like a pretty big outlier right now from does, but I gotta be honest, man, like I do think that's probably the order that things are going to go in. And I'm curious, I'm curious what sort of made you think, let's start with the Giants. Why, Why do you think they're going to trade up, especially if, we do think they're gonna end up

with Russell Wilson, right? I do think that they're probably gonna do that. Probably, they need a long-term answer, though. I said to Nick, I said, Matt Ford says hi, and he's like, Matt, who's Matt? I was like, Matt Ford? No, I'm kidding, he didn't say that. No, so, okay, so here's my thought on this.

Giants first. The Giants, you know what their quarterback is on the roster right now, by the way? I'm looking, if you're watching, I'm just watching college basketball talking at the same time, so you have to deal with it. It's Tommy DeVito. Okay?

Even we're watching college basketball, yep. That's it, that's it, Tommy, that's the only quarterback on the roster right now, Tommy DeVito. Even we're watching college basketball. Yep. That's it. That's it. Tommy, that's the only coach running the roster right now, Tommy DeVito. I don't know if you know this, but Brian Dable and Joe Shane, the head coach and general manager,

are gonna be fired if they win five games again. They need a quarterback. And right now, we just talked about it, Russell Wilson or Ann Rogers. Those are the options. Now, okay, Kirk Cousins could be an option, but right now those are the options. Those two guys are getting those guys fired.

So Cam Ward from Miami might get them fired. Maybe Matt, probably not in year one. And he's much better as a prospect than I think Shadour is. And they're gonna, they have to do something. And if you were to rank the quarterbacks, these two guys compared to last year, you would have them actually below

the six first round picks from last year. Like they're not those type of players. I say that because if the Giants call the Titans, who need a ton of players all over the roster, and say, hey man, we'll give you some more draft picks. It's not Caleb Williams. It's not Andrew Luck. It's not, it's not a quarterback.

You're like no chance, just no chance. I'm trading that guy. So the Titans will probably open for business. The Titans can trade to three and still get the best player in the draft. They get Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter. They might actually, I think Matt, and I didn't put this in the mock draft.

I think it's possible that the Tennessee goes from one to three to somewhere else. Like I think at three and I didn't put this in the mock draft, I think it's possible that Tennessee goes from one to three to somewhere else. Like I think at three, someone might call up for Abdul Carter. Tennessee's like, sign me up, I'll keep moving back because I need more players. Now, two things with Tennessee.

Like again, Brian Calehan's our coach, new general manager. Brian Calehan probably has to win to save his job. Like now, he probably wants a quarterback. General manager is brand new. He's like, I'm just build my roster, right? I don't need a quarterback right now. So there's gonna be a little fight, I think,

internally there, Matt, between that idea. But I know the Giants call, the Tennessee's like, yeah, sign me up, I'm in, and Giants will get Cam Ward. And then the Shadur-Sandor's part of this. Shadur, if you're ranking him as a prospect, he's probably just big board like in the twenties. You know, there's a lot to like his accuracy at times. He's very tough.

Like he got battered at Colorado. But the Colorado offense was so bad. It was just an atrocious offense, Matt. Static formations, open edges, no run gain, no creativity. And Travis Hunter, who I think is incredible, believe it or not, like didn't do a lot in the offense. He like sort of lined up on one side of the field and the wide receivers are great there

and Scherr made some throws, but he drips out of the pocket too much. He doesn't make the right reads at times, and he's got average arm strength. But he get tough, gritty, like all those things are true. And you gotta think to yourself, if I put him in an offense, that's an NFL offense with NFL offensive line,

what can he be? Because again, the hardest part about all these evaluations is that these offenses are just terrible. Like they're just bad design. They're terribly designed. Or the other way, they're so well-designed that you have to think to yourself, well, what happens if the quarterback's in a bad situation,

can he play good? So all that being said, the Browns right now have Kenny Pickett as their quarterback. And the last three years, two years, excuse me, two years, I've had Deshaun Watson, Joe Flacco, Jameis Winston, Dory Thompson Robinson, Bailey Zappi, Jeff Driscoll, and someone else start a game for them. I mean, that's what they have right now.

I don't think Jadur is the second best player in the draft, but if you're the Browns, again, what are you gonna do? You gonna roll with Kenny Pickett for a season? So that's a long way to say, I think quarterbacks go one and two. And I'm in the minority. I mean, I have seen Dan Jeremiah mock draft came out, Kuiper mock draft came out this week.

I mean, they got Shadur three, six. There's a chance, Nick Wright has said this on the show and I agree with him.urre three, six. There's a chance, and Nick Wright has said this on the show and I agree with him. It's not obviously anything that's a new thought, but I think there's a really good chance that Shadurre could have an Aaron Rodgers night where it's like he goes to the top three or not till the 20s.

That does feel like what it's gonna be. I think, I still think Tennessee, even if they're presented with a really nice offer, if you have a chance to get the best quarterback I think, even if they're presented with a really nice offer, if you have a chance to get the best quarterback in the drafts and you're a team that stinks, you should just do it. I said it last week, I'm going to get it again. It's like the Mitchell-Trabisky disease. It's sort of like the Blake Bortles disease

of like these guys that played at smaller schools and you're like, man, like, if they could just put it together, if they, if, if, if, it's really hard to bet your job on that if you're, you know, a Browns GM. But- There's a lot of if with Sider.

I, having said that, like, you kinda, I don't know, like, so you kinda need to do it once in a while and It's not every year that you're gonna get you know, five six guys that come out and or and or Seem like very solid first round choices Anthony Richardson he was another where it was just like guys all the tools like there's I think sugar is a better prospect than Richardson Was I think Richardson was just one of those like Madden guys? We'll see I think I think you're right. I think Richardson was just one of those like Madden guys. But we'll see. I think you're right.

I think he'll end up going in the top five just due to how important the position is. But I don't know. I like your take. And I think if I were Tennessee though, I would stick around. All right, we're getting down to the end of, I'm going to be O and one in my first bed of March Madness,

which is tradition. So maybe we can, any last sort of topics you want to hit here before we go and enjoy our day of college basketball, Jeff. Mike, I'm on the edge of these underdogs, they're just so like, you're like, can you make your three if you're like, I got Montana plus 10 for the first half,

they're down eight with a minute 40 left. And you're just like, I gotta get one miss from Wisconsin and like one more make. And I think I'm sort of like, okay. But just, you know, it's like, oh, okay, we got a miss. You're like, kids want, Kim Montana. And then you look at these games and you think to yourself, there's just no way Montana,

look at the athletes that they're playing with against Wisconsin. There's just no way this game is close. But in somehow it like sort of is close. And then you look at like the high point Purdue game, there's just no way it should be close. And yet somehow it's close. Sort of close, yeah.

I don't think Creighton's missed a shot this whole day, by the way. Creighton is... They're a good team. You know what's funny is like, the YouTube TV stream is way behind the other. You could change that. What do you mean?

There's a way to, you know what, I'm gonna do a public service for people who are watching on YouTube TV. If you Google this, YouTube TV turn off delay, there is a broadcast delay that's a default on YouTube TV that you can turn off and it speeds you up by like 20 seconds. I don't know why it's the default, that it would be the other way, but it is a very useful thing to know. So Montana, let's see here, this big fellow is gonna like get a three second violation. Oh, he got a rebound.

Oh, he made it. Okay. All right, Matt. People are really, they're stay tuned for this. By the way, I did not announce this at the beginning. I probably should have. My dad is gonna be on the show in a few minutes. I interviewed my daddy, he has a book called, Raising Giants, you could go check that out

on RaisingGiants.com, it's about my brother and I, our youth, and then my dad's view of our careers, college career, NFL career, we talked about Judaism and just sort of growing up and sort of what it meant to be where we are. So all those things are in the book and I'll have my dad on a few minutes. Good conversation, so make sure to check that out.

And I covered one, I got one already, Matt. We covered two and O today, buddy. Two and O today. Were you and Mitch, were you guys like, what was the aggression level like in your house? Because you're a pretty laid back guy. Mitch always says this, like, I was so much bigger than my brother that he like,

we didn't fight, we didn't fight. I just was so much bigger than him. Interesting. How much older are you? Three years. Three years. Yeah, that's a pretty significant difference. Like if you're a senior, right, and he's like a sophomore or freshman or whatever,

that could be, that could be pretty big difference. I was much bigger than him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, shout out to your dad, shout out to Mitch, and not shout out to Louisville, who has burned me to lead me to an 0-1 start. Very quickly, Oregon Liberty, who you got?

I like Nate Biddle over 14 and a half points, Oregon Center. What a coward. Liberty is a tiny team, one of the smallest teams in the country. Their center's 6-9, Biddle 7-1, former five-star kid. He's very, very good. He's our best player. This game, by the way, opened four and a half, Matt,

seven and a half now, because it's in Seattle, so it's a home-ish game for Oregon. Liberty's got to fly all the way across the country for that game. And they're just small. And Dana Almond, eight and O now at Oregon, first round games was Oregon's head coach. It's just straight up eight and O.

Interesting. Should have maybe asked you before I picked Liberty. It's just been such a good year for the far right that I just assumed Liberty would probably take this one. Oh, that's fantastic. Wow. Well, one day Matt, we're gonna do a political podcast starting with asking what are Democrats doing?

But that's another topic for another day. Yeah. All right. Do we still have a Democratic party? Are they still around? Do they still function? Let's ask your dad. We will not be airing that live,

but it will appear in the audio version. It'll be in the audio only version. So, all right guys, have a good weekend of watching ball. We'll be back next week, talk some football. Maybe we'll go, maybe we could do, Matt, a show earlier in the week, like maybe Wednesday, and do a Sweet 16 preview. We could do like, throw some college basketball at the folks. Interesting.

Yeah, I'm open to that. I'm gay, I gotta do it on Tuesday for Bear Bets. Like, I'll be ready to go. You're a good researcher. Just talk to Evan Abrams, he'll be ready to go. Shout out to Evan. Great to see you, buddy. Good luck with your bets.

Take care. Hopefully we can turn this around. Yes, here's the interview with my dad, guys. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Please go check out the book, Raising Giants. Again, anywhere Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kindle, paperback, wherever you go find it, check it out. And here's the interview with my dad.

All right, guys, we're back. I told you we'd have a special guest. It is my dad. He wrote a book called, Raising Giants. It is a memoir about raising two NFL sons who both achieve the ultimate dream job of playing professional sports. Welcome in, Lee Schwartz, first time,

I believe, on the podcast. Excited to have you here with us. Excited to be here, thanks, I appreciate it. All right, so I know you've been working on this for quite a while now. It now something you've wanted to do I think the entire time Mitch and I were playing football Can you talk about kind of the genesis of this book and why it was important for you to write? I Had been thinking about it the whole most of the time

I didn't want to do anything until both of you guys were out of the league Because I knew that I might be saying things that might get some people in the NFL upset. So I waited for you guys to both graduate out of the NFL and then ask your permission to be able to write it. And you both gave me the approval. I wanted to do it for several reasons. One, I thought it would be great for your kids and Mitchell's to know more about what their dad and uncles did during their professional career, especially given that Alex was born

at a time when you were still playing, but he doesn't remember anything and doesn't understand it. So I wanted to be able to share that. And then there was that fan club broadcast list that I sent emails to for years, telling them what you guys were doing. And I thought they might like to know the whole story, because they got snippets of it. And so those were the initial two reasons that I decided to write the book. So as you start along this process, what maybe did you learn about our careers

or our journeys that you really maybe not had thought or not remembered about that process? Frankly, there wasn't much that I didn't remember through the process. I mean, the hardest chapter for me to write was the chapter on injuries, because it brought it all to the surface about how many injuries particularly you had

and what you guys had to go through in that regard. The injury list for my brother is very short. I don't know, that was probably a very short chapter. Well, it's incorporated into the one chapter. Right. I think, I know I sent you the list of injuries and the portion that I wrote about it to you to just validate that what I remembered was accurate

and it was. So that was something that came to mind that I knew So that was something that came to mind that I knew, but it was emphasized more in writing the book. The other thing about it, I would say is that just the whole, how much of a business it all is. You know, as fans, we look at football as a sport, but whether it be college, but more so in the professional rank, it's a business

and how difficult decisions are made and they're not made with any or little consideration to the feelings of the players. It's all what's best for the teams, whether it be financially or otherwise. And that came to the surface as well, as I was writing it. One thing that we've discussed over the years is you come from the business world, right? You ran companies and the NFL is a lot different than the business world.

How difficult was that for you during our playing careers that decisions were made, roster moves are made, contracts are just different than the way you or mom have ever done business? It's true. And that was a struggle throughout the time. I mentioned in the book how it is different. If I signed a contract in the business world, that contract was firm, unless

something dramatically happened in the NFL, not so the case, and especially that situation with you and the Giants. I'll never forget the day we were at the outlet stores in Carlsbad. And you came to us and said, I just got a call from Derek and they want to, the Giants want to renew or redo my contract. I was like, what are you talking about? They signed a contract. But I learned through the process that contracts

in the NFL aren't the same as contracts generally in the business world. Let's go all the way back to maybe our high school days. Mitch and I didn't play football growing up. I mean, I played a little flag football, but we started playing in high school. Do you remember maybe the first time, because I went through the process first,

that you realized like, oh, maybe Jeff can play college football. Yeah, I do. And it wasn't so much what I knew, it's what others told me. Cause back then, I didn't know much about the game of football. I didn't know what it took to get from high school

to college and even beyond that. And so I do remember when your coaches started to come to us, particularly coach Blatt. And remember his uncle was on the team too, as a coach. And they were the first ones, his uncle was the first one to say to me, you know, Jeffery has a chance to get to the next level. And then Coach Blatt said so, and then Dorek Roy said so. And so we started to believe because we had people who knew the game, And so we started to believe because we had people who knew the game, who were saying, he's got a real chance.

And that was the first time I ever thought, well, this might be really possible. So I just relied on other people who were in the know to tell me. What was the most, surprising might be the wrong word to say, but what was the most unexpected thing of watching Mitch and I play college football?

The most unexpected thing? Yeah, like, was there something that you thought was gonna be the case, it just wasn't? I mean, obviously, Mitch and I have very different careers in college football, and in the NFL, but you watched, I think you went to every one of Mitch's games and you'd missed two of mine I think two of mine. I think you missed I did miss two of yours. I missed the

the one because mom's Partner in the law firm had an event here, and I missed one your freshman year because you weren't gonna be playing Well, I did play didn't you the first one I played in all you did you come to Washington State? I did you called me on Wednesday of that week and you said, dad, I'm starting. And I was like, oh my God, can you get here? And so I got to Pullman, Washington, three days later.

Yeah, I mean, the college years were, I think uneventful compared to the NFL years where college football, obviously, there's a couple of stories in the book about the religion and just you know college football obviously, you know There's a couple stories in the in the in the book about you know The the religion and just sort of dealing with that, you know coming through football Which is a big part of it being Jewish and just sort of the the misunderstanding I think of the religion and you know sort of living up to that that Sandy Kofax You know that's that's what everyone holds up right the city, right?

How did you how did you guide us, Mitch and I, about that? Because in the Jewish community, everyone holds that on a pedestal, right? The Sanico facts didn't pitch game one of the World Series, but he also did, he also pitched three other games of the World Series. So he ended up making all his starts. Mitch and I don't have the ability

to really miss a game like that. Right, and so that was always a struggle for me. And I think for you guys as well. I remember the time in college when you came to us and you said, I've got a game on Yom Kippur and I want to play, I want to fast and then play at night. And at that point in time, mom and I knew that, you know that decision was ultimately yours,

but we acted more as parents that day and said, no, that's not healthy for you. And so you've got to make a decision as to either you eat and play, or you don't eat and you don't play at night. And you chose to play at night. And so you ate during the day. And then the other story that,

well, the Sandy Koufax story, obviously, the funny part about that, which I, which I wrote about in the book is Don Drysdale pitched that first night. He was only the second best pitcher in the major leagues that year, not far behind Sandy. And he had a horrible game. And Walt Alston walks out to the mound to take him out of the game. And the story goes, Drysdale said to Alston, well, I bet you wish I was Jewish. I did not know that. Yes. Yes. And then Sandy did pitch three more games and the Dodgers won. And so there wasn't anything about his missing the game that harmed him. Whereas, as I explained

in the book and to me, you guys had difficult decisions to make the way the NFL operates. You weren't, you didn't have the cache as Sandy Koufax, you or Mitchell. Um, and so if you missed a game, your livelihood was subject to change because they may see that you're not committed to the team and may not then uh, play you the next week or you may lose your starting position. not then play you the next week or you may lose your starting position. So we understood about your, how you handled the religious holidays. Of course, there was that one story about the rabbi. I don't know if you remember that. Well, he sent a letter to the, I think, like a New York Post or something or the Giants. When I was playing for the Giants, he got really

upset. Yeah, you were playing for the Giants. He got really upset. He said he was crestfallen that you would play. And then he suggested that honey and apples, which are used on the religious holidays, are sent in to help celebrate the holiday in your locker room. And I ultimately got in touch with him and said, you realize that Tom Coughlin's not gonna be bringing in apples and honey to celebrate a Jewish holiday

just for Jeffrey Schwartz, even though the team's owned by a Jew. I mean, it's, look, the religion thing that I've said this many times, it never bothered me. I definitely got weird questions and, you know, coaches didn't understand, especially early in my time at Oregon, but the NFL was fine man I mean, you know, we all come from different walks of life. So we all

believe in different things and you you make it work and and I never felt there was any sort of Antisemitism or any sort of that, you know in that way because you're you're right I mean, you know the NFL owners that half are Jewish. So it never really I never felt that way So Mitch and I obviously had very different NFL careers You know, I was hurt a bunch Mitch wasn't he was all pro. I certainly was not he won a Super Bowl I did not win a Super Bowl. So you sort of seen it all When it comes to what the National Football League can be for your kids Maybe what was the the best part and maybe the toughest part of watching

your kids play NFL football? Well, let me start with the toughest part, which I already alluded to, the injuries. That was just so difficult to see. I don't know if I ever shared this with you directly, but I wrote about it in the book, how I screamed the two times that I was watching the TV and I saw you get injured and How I handled the situation when you dislocated your toe

While you're playing for the Giants that preseason It's just Excruciating to see your kids get hurt You know the flip side is how exciting it is to see your son. It's very surreal to see a son of mine. And I had to on the field playing at a high level in the NFL, something I grew up watching and never dreamed that I'd be that close to. And it's that time that you and Mitchell faced off or your teams faced off against each other in Kansas City when Mitchell was on Cleveland. What an extraordinary day of that,

going to the Super Bowl and being with you guys at the Super Bowl and watching Mitchell. I mean, mom and I looked at each other and we kind of pissed each other. Are we really here at a Super Bowl? So those were, you know, those are the high points. And it was, yeah, you're right. It was the whole spectrum from the low to the high.

How much is the book gonna get Mitch and I in trouble? Are there stories in there? And I think I've cleared most of them. So I don't really care, but obviously, you know, I think that the way you viewed interactions at times with coaches or with front offices are maybe a little different than Mitch and I experienced them or maybe Mitch and I just didn't care as much

because we knew the sport. Are there anything in there that's gonna get us in trouble? Nothing in trouble, I can't imagine at all, but I do talk about very clearly how the contract with the Cleveland Browns was handled with Mitchell and how terribly that was. And I do have a chapter in there called Society of Doubters. Of all the people who have said to you primarily you're

never gonna make it, including your offensive line coach at Oregon. I still have that list on my phone I think. Well that's what I alluded to. I said you first wrote about it, you know, had something in your wallet and then you put it on your phone. And so, yeah, I wrote about that. And whether that causes any grief with those that I wrote about, I'm sorry. That's the reality. That's my and that's my perception. You may disagree, Mitchell may disagree. But, you know, the way things happened while you were in college, there were four instances of which he doubted what your capabilities were

and what your likely advancement would be. And I just didn't think that was appropriate. So, but nothing to get you guys in trouble, I don't think. I mean, you'll be the arbiter of that ultimately. Yeah. Do you have a favorite son? I think people are gonna wanna know this question. They're gonna ask questions.

Do you have a favorite son? Is there a favorite, After writing the book, did someone emerge as a favorite? Yeah, Alex. Yeah, that's totally fair. Alex is the best. Yeah, yeah. And you know he's committed to read the book.

Yeah, I know. He said that. My son likes to read. We bought him six books yesterday. He reads before bed. It's kind of wild. He loves to read. So I never was that way.

I don't know. He didn't get it from me. Well, he read the whole Harry Potter series before he was 10 years old. Yeah, I know. He bought another, he bought another series yesterday. I don't know. We bought like four books yesterday in a series.

Good for him. What advice would you give parents sort of going through this process now, maybe just from the beginning, from high school, and then up to college and the NFL. The biggest piece of advice that I could give is be realistic about your kids' chances to play whatever sport they're excited about.

Give them the opportunity to play all the sports. As you know, I didn't believe in just a single sport for you guys, even though we had a lot of commentary from friends and otherwise saying, oh, just let them play football. And you played baseball and basketball and Mitchell played baseball. I don't believe in a one sport theory. Let them try all of it. But then be very aware of But then be very aware of what their future may hold and don't push too hard. Make sure that they're enjoying themselves while they're playing because if you push too hard, they get burnt out. And I think that's the biggest thing is just be real, very realistic about what the future

may hold and let them have fun. Yeah. I mean, the thing that I stress a lot is just the idea that multiple sports, it's so funny because now that my kids are playing youth sports, the pressure on this club sports stuff is ridiculous. I mean, it's, you know, my daughter's really good

and people are already like, can she do, I'm like, no, just no, no. They already asked if she can do club salt. I'm like, no. There's no, no. They already asked if she can do club salt. I'm like, no, there's no chance. She's eight. She's not doing club softball at eight years old. And the intense pressure, I think it's because college is so expensive.

And so every edge you can get, and what's so interesting about you and mom is you guys are athletic, but you weren't college athletes. Mitch and I are just freak shows. There's no rhyme or reason for why this happened. But I tell people all the time, like your kid, not, I guess in my head, I think this,

but like your kid is small. Like you just, there's some luck has to be part of it as well. Like you've Mitch and I just were big, we're athletic, and we just sort of got lucky. All right, we'll end with this here. You can find the book, by the way, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, RaisingGiants.com, all the places that you can find a book.

You can get it in Kindle. I mean, there's so many ways to read this thing. So I have a feeling that at one point I'm gonna have to take the French rise away from my daughter, which is what you had to do to me at one point. I didn't do it. So can you tell the story of the time, I think I was 13, that I was not allowed to eat french fries

from basically 13 till college, which feels like a war crime now that I'm 38 years old. But there was a time when I was 13 and I did not eat a french fry for four years. Well, I don't think that was our doing. I think, well, what happened, how it started was we were after playing Saturday morning basketball, which you came to on a regular basis, our routine was to go to Burger King, the entire group, or a good part of the group, and have lunch. And we were sitting at the table. Everybody else had ordered their lunch. I brought over

two trays worth of food for the three of us, which everybody was amazed at how much food was going to be consumed. And we sat down to eat and we were sitting across one of my dear friends who looked at you and said, no, you can't have that. And he literally took your fries away. And I think that scarred you for years after that. I didn't do it. It was, you know, my friend that did it.

And I eat plenty of French fries now, so I make up for it now. But I mean, it's funny cause like these little, like these little things that happen in life where you can joke about that, but really, I mean, that was important for me at that age to sort of learn, I think, as I started to get into sports, like what's good and what's bad to eat,

which we, when I was going through the process of college, I mean, there was no nutritionists, there was none of that stuff. So that was the first time in my life I ever had someone sort of explain, you know, how to feel your body properly. And it's different now when I have kids, like I don't really care they're young,

but I do try to get them to like eat certain things before and after we play sports. I don't care as much because one kid doesn't eat a lot of one eats more. And so, but I do now, now I sort of, I sort of get it now, you know, when things happen, you're a kid and then you get older and you have your kids, you get why things happen. So.

Yeah, well, I gotta give you credit for one thing about nutrition, if you've got the time. And that is what you did between your sophomore and junior years in college. Cause remember you ballooned up in your sophomore year. Yeah, you were fat, even though you'd show us your stomach and say, see how thin I am? But you blew up to some big numbers after we were promised by the recruiting staff at Oregon before you got there how they would watch over you guys and take care of your

weight. They never did it. So if you remember, you spent that period between your sophomore and junior years losing, as I recall, about 40 pounds by changing what you ate, by getting on the exercise bike every day on top of everything else that was going on, and got yourself into condition so that your junior year you played at a much higher level than you would have playing at the weight you were as a sophomore. Yeah, no, what's funny is then I hurt my back

that junior year, which is funny. After I lost all that weight, I hurt my back. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I just, I, every night, I go do like the elliptical or the bike for like 30 minutes at my, at the gym, at the apartment complex I was staying at. I mean, I just was so fat. My knees were starting to hurt. I remember the holiday bowl practices that year,

my knees were hurting and I was just like, I'm too young that my knees hurt at practice. So I just, I was like, no one told me. And there was just, there was nothing that we couldn't do. I give you a lot of credit for doing that because it reshifted your career path. I really believe it. Yeah, I was, I probably did. I was super fat. I mean, it was, it was not great. Um, all right. Well, uh, again, you can find the book, Amazon, Bards and noble,

uh, it's paperback, it's digital, raising giants.com. I think we, we cover it all. Anything else? Anything else you want to add? Look, I could keep talking forever. I wrote a 300 plus page book so but I appreciate it yeah so go check out the book everyone and uh that's it for the podcast we back next week we'll talk more nfl maybe we'll sneak in some march madness talk along the way as well as we get to uh the second weekend of uh of the xma tournament I know matt wants to talk a little bit about that we do do have a little bit on the side here because he's trying to figure out his brackets. We'll talk about that a little bit. We'll be back next week. Okay everyone, have a good weekend. Thanks Jeffrey. You