Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Julio Jones is a Titan and Naomi Osaka's Media Obligations

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

Geoff is joined by Matt Ford to discuss Julio Jones' trade, Aaron Rodgers still not reporting to camp, and Juwan James signing with the Baltimore Ravens. They then delve deep into Naomi Osaka's recent issues with the press and take a look at the relationship between players and media in the NFL and sports in general. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

it's thursday june 10th julio jones finally got traded rogers continues to stay away and naomi osaka has a moment with mental health and i'm very glad she discussed we'll get into all that i'm jeff schwartz alongside matt for this is jeff schwartz is smarter than you matt it's been a while i was um pretty impressed you were you put out a video on instagram i don't think you were in central park but you're're down in Manhattan, just boxing away. And I was like, oh, better not get mad upset. That's right, man. You better stay in line today. The Instagram is at MM Ford 10. Everyone should click follow on that. I have dozens of followers on Instagram. Yeah, no, the boxing is it's a good workout. maybe one day

i'll square off with logan paul and become a multi-billionaire that's that's the goal did you pay for that fight i did not did you no i value my money way too much to pay for that fight plus i just go on twitter in the morning and watch all the highlights like there's nothing like that i need to pay for that fight uh one thing left out by the way of the of the rundown and we will get to at the very end, Matt and I enjoy hearty laughs. We laugh a lot, especially when we're doing this together. And we're going to end the show with our favorite tweets

of the last couple of weeks. Mine is, I sent it to Matt yesterday, it's absolutely mind-blowing. It's not sports-related, not Montez Sweat-related, which is making news as we record this today. We won't touch that, don't worry. But we'll have a lot of fun at the end. So stay tuned to the end. We're going to laugh. We're going to have a ton of fun. We're going to have fun now.

Let's start with the big trade, Matt. Yeah, let's do it, Jeff. I don't know if you heard this, but Julio Jones traded to the Titans. They got a second and fourth rounder back in two separate years. Lots of, lots of ink has been spilled about this trade already, Jeff. What do you make of it? Well, let's start with the compensation. Not a lot, obviously, right? We saw like Stefan Diggs do his four draft picks to the Bills.

We've seen other trades kind of be more compensation. Here's why I think Julio did not get as much. Not that he's not good. Not that he might not be a future Hall of Famer. It's his age, his health, and the Tennessee will probably have to give him a contract extension. If he plays well this year, next season he's on a very, he'll have one year left, not a lot of money, and boom, he's going to want to get an extension. And Tennessee will be in a spot where if he plays well this year,

they're going to be forced to pay him, right? And Atlanta, if they got any first-round pick, which no one thought they would get, they would have traded him right away. So I give the Titans credit for going out and trying to improve their team, right? I very rarely will knock anyone for trying to improve their team. Now, I will put a wet blanket,

pour cold water on the Titans in just a second, but I appreciate them going out and trying to acquire more talent, especially to help on offense, right? They lost Corey Davis. They bring in Julio Jones. Now you have with A.J. Brown and Fitzpatrick and Derrick Henry. You have an offense that can go.

The problem is, Matt, I'm not really sure how much this, how different this makes them from last season, right? Last season, Corey Davis is not Julio Jones, but he still put up a lot of production for them, right, in the play-action passing attack. AJ O'Brown we know is very good. They lost one of their tight ends to, I think, New England, right? He went to New England.

They're still figuring out kind of what to do, right, tackle. Their left side's pretty good in the offensive line. Defensively, 32nd last year in pressure rate, 32nd on third down. They addressed some of that in the draft, right? They drafted the Fairleigh kid and Elijah Molden, who I really liked out of Washington. They got Bud Dupree coming off an injury, and they got Autry, the kid from the Colts,

who's in his eighth season. So when you look at it in totality, Matt, I'm not sure they're that much different. Their odds did not drop very much to win the Super Bowl, make the Super Bowl. They're now tied with the Colts, I believe, in most books to win the South. I mean, the Colts with their bum-ass Carson Wentz,

like, I don't understand how they're, you know, like, that's not good for the Titans. My last thing on this before you respond is my biggest holdup on saying this is a slam dunk it's gonna get times over the top is their offensive corner situation right so arthur smith is now the head coach in atlanta arthur smith came in and became the oc i believe it was two years ago now maybe three maybe two i forget what i gotta look it up but whatever it was they took off right offensively run the ball play action pass,

kind of keep Tannehill out of obvious third down passing situations. And we know 2,000 yards last year, but they had the second most rushing attempts, which is not always the best metric because when you're winning, you run the ball more, but, you know, they weren't winning every game. And their 30th in passing attempts. Matt, that's not a formula for success in the NFL long term. It's not how you win a Super Bowl bowl but running that much and passing that little so what does the new oc do now with

julio joe's they continue this right they have a defensive minded head coach those guys tend to lean a little bit more conservative right they want to run the football play defense hit a couple play action passes so if they just run the same offense back, I just, I don't know if that's good enough to beat the Chiefs. That's the goal, beating the Chiefs. So Jeff, I agree. The Titans kind of remind me of a blackjack player who keeps hitting on 16 and not busting. Like every year they kind of run back this formula of feed Derrick Henry.

He gives you a, you know, 1500 plus yards. of feed derrick henry he gives you a you know 1500 plus yards uh and you know tannahill does enough to sort of get you you know it's a to contend i guess uh i don't fault them for not improving their defense while improving their offense like good for them i obviously think they're better with julio jones than they would be without him that's hot hot take of the decade right um what i thought was interesting is they didn't have to they didn't seem to have to give up too much uh the comp is in line with uh what the cardinals did for deandre hopkins plus or minus david johnson odell beckham went for a first and a third um carson wentz went for a two and a three it's just kind of interesting to compare all these guys but look i think tennessee is there they seem to believe that

their way forward is kind of just like doing the same thing and adding julio jones that offense will improve it but you know i don't know i you said it like is that enough to beat the chiefs probably not but if he plays you know like julio jones they'll be a pretty exciting team and who knows man it's the nfl anything's possible so i i like the move i'm glad they didn't have to overpay for him again again like like i i'm fine with the with the move right like i they went out and got a talented player to help their offense but this is more about philosophy for me right like is their philosophy gonna change where they and maybe ryan tannahill just isn't that guy who's gonna really who's gonna really you know be part of

a downfield passing attack without the play-action pass, right? Again, play-action pass is fantastic. He's great at it. And, you know, it is – like, again, they did the right thing here. They added on defense, but I'm just not sure it's enough to beat the Chiefs. And that is always going to be the barometer. And, look, the Browns, I think, did a great job this year.

They added three defensive cornerbacks, right, or three defensive, I should say, to their roster this offseason with a draft and free agency. Like, they're in the right direction. Buffalo added two pass rushers in the draft. I mean, I think that's important, right? They're building for that. I think philosophy-wise, Tennessee is just not where those teams are at and that's what

worries me most most about them it's not really the julio trade it's the fact that they need to change their philosophy as well as adding julio jones and i don't i just i have a hard time believing that's going to happen because of the history of what they've done there and and because of a defensive minded head coach most of those guys we know tend to be kind of more on the conservative side offensively you know belichick's obviously the outlier for all this but he had tom brady and last i checked ryan tannell's not tom. True. I can confirm. One thing I would say, too, is like for a second and a fourth, I feel like there are 20 teams that could have made this move and sort of had the same justification that the Titans do. It's like, yeah, the Titans are an upper echelon team.

You add Julio Jones for a second and a fourth. Like, sure, you're you're trying to win the Super Bowl, right? Like why? Like for that price, I'm just a little confused why a you know san francisco is the obvious one but why not you know the rams or even kansas city or buffalo like why wouldn't one of these teams go all in with a guy like that i'm curious if if some people were a little scared off of this injury or the injury history with him um but i just think that the cost was so low that he could have made sense in a lot of places. Green Bay, of course, being another one. Yeah, I totally think it was age, injury,

and the contract extension that he's going to be due this year. If he plays well, he's going to get an extension. And that to me is kind of, it's talked about, but not talked about enough as the reasons why this is happening. Excuse me, why no one went and traded for him, right? Is that you have to pay him more money in a year or two. And some teams just aren't in a position to do that. Or not in a position, they just don't want to do that.

That might be the better way to say it, right? Just don't want to do it. He's currently the highest paid player on the titans for this coming year which is which is interesting and obviously a reason atlanta traded interesting um yeah well speaking of uh of money and and uh and the packers actually uh aaron rogers i don't know if you've heard he's been in the news lately jeff yeah he's uh i don't know i don't know what position he is maybe we can look that up he's uh he did not report to minicamp the mandatory minicamp uh this past week uh he so he forfeits a workout bonus um look we have to talk about him i'm just kind of curious like if if your stance on wire you know how this is going to play out

for him has changed at all if you think he's gaining any leverage by sitting any of this stuff out? Well, he's not gaining leverage. And people have made the point that it's the first time he's ever not been to offseason workouts. But I'm pushed back a little bit on that. That is true. But remember, as we were nearing the end of the CBA negotiations for this current CBA, right, which was which was signed before free agency last year. It was like March of 2020. The reason why there was some consternation at the end of that from the players. Not the reason.

One of the reasons why, I should say, was because Aaron Rodgers appeared out of nowhere at the end of the negotiation and told everyone that he wanted to eliminate off-season workouts. That he did not want there to be off-season workouts anymore in the CBA between the players and the owners. So he's wanted to not show up for a while now, but he's had workout bonuses. He's had reasons to be there.

Now he has no reason to be there. Now he doesn't have a workout bonus. He's fine for the workout bonus. And I continue to say the Packers are not trading him. Let's talk about why they're not trading him. One is they're a good football team. They don't have not trading him. Let's talk about why they're not trading him. One is they're a good football team. They don't have to trade him. You can call his bluff.

All right, sit down, Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is not going to be the host of Jeopardy. I feel like that's not going to happen anymore. All right, Rodgers, just retire. All right, well, fine. You win, I guess. You retire. Everyone will think that you quit, right?

Like, all right, fine. Be my guest. Don't make money this year. Go retire. Like, I guess. You retire and everyone will think that you quit, right? Like, all right, fine. Be my guest. Don't make money this year. Go retire. Like, all right. As much as Rodgers wants to have control and is okay with the label he's getting now, does he really want to be the guy that kind of just quit

after two NFC Championship games because he didn't like the Packers front office? I don't know. It doesn't seem like what he wants to be I did not know this I learned this I learned this they can I knew they can fine you for not being a mandatory mini camp or not being a training camp in the past though when you came back or when you redid your deal the team would just forgive your fine it happened all the time Aaron Donald would just not show up all training camp. They'd fine him in air quotes. He'd show

up and they'd be like, all right, we rescind all your fines. In the new CBA, the fines are mandatory. They cannot be rescinded. And that's a lot of money for Rodgers. It's like $90,000 a day in training camp to not be there. Now, we heard the report that the package to do him a solid and

excuse him, have an excuse not be there aters are doing a solid and excuse him, have an excuse absence, not be there at minicamp or training camp. I mean, who knows if they do that? I think they will to kind of give him, you know, just be like, hey, buddy, we'll throw you a bone. We want you to be here. We don't want to find you. We want you to be here.

But, Matt, I just don't think he wants to lose all this money in the end. Yeah. I think this is playing into the Packers' hands a little bit bit because i agree he's not gaining anything by sitting out anymore like to do the full media assault which he did which you know he clearly orchestrated on draft night for the chance to maybe get out of there you know maybe create a little bit of a bidding war like that's over now at this point green bay isn't going to trade him this you know for this coming year for a bunch of draft picks like that's silly and in the meantime you're reading the reports of jordan love getting the first team reps which is the best thing that could happen

for the packers aaron rodgers doesn't need these reps right now but jordan love does so they can see what they've got with him and you know you're gonna see this happen we're you know we're gonna talk about our you know sort of tropey headlines coming up later in the show like the reports are going to be glowing that jordan love is picking up the offense and wow like all the receivers love him and of course they they have rogers back but you know of course that's what's going to happen here so that the pressure will come back onto rogers who by the way jeopardy might not be in the cards right now but he clearly wants to be a famous person after he retires and quitting on the packers to you know after two straight years of almost getting to the super bowl is not a good pr move he's not going to do it

so i personally i think that and james jones said this who's like the rogers whisperer his former teammate he said on i think coward show that uh he thinks that rogers will be back for training camp which is sort of the first of like the inner rogers sanctum to sort of whisper that kind of stuff so i think this thing nears an end soon uh and it will all wonder why we wasted our breath for four months uh i mean we it's been great content right i mean we've had we've talked about this now for months and months and months and yeah in the end I just believe he's coming back like the Packers have the leverage I do not know why people think Aaron Rodgers has the leverage I will say though and we'll get to Jordan Love headlines later but very quickly

if Jordan Love was this good like franchise quarterback level talent and elite player, the Packers probably would have traded Aaron Rodgers already. They probably would have. And Aaron Rodgers might have known that and not pushed as hard as he has because he knows that they'll say, okay, fine, just leave. Like, we'll trade you.

Get out of here. So I do think he's not that good yet. He might get there. But a lot of times with these young guys, we knew right away Pat Mahomes was good, right? We knew right away Russell Wilson was good. We knew right away Deshaun Watson was good. We knew right away Herbert was good.

You know, Lamar Jackson. All these guys. Josh Allen's an outlier right he's an outlier so if love's not ready now he can always be ready but will he be the elite level guy if he doesn't have it now history has shown probably not matt maybe but of course the counter argument is aaron rogers himself who the first year he was the starter after after uh after far was went six and ten so who knows but i agree that he you know he i think calculated his leverage he went all in clearly um but don't be surprised when the green bay newspapers are all like man this jordan love kid can really spin it right you know tight end number three for the packers that

doesn't even aaroners that doesn't even, that Aaron Rodgers doesn't even know his name, so he can't get in trouble. Like, that's coming. Get ready for it. Oh, of course it is. This episode is brought to you by HP. Whenever you do your best thinking, the HP Spectre x360 is ready when inspiration strikes. With power saved for battery life and Focus Mode to multitask,

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for whenever an idea hits you. HP Spectre X360, a more thoughtful laptop. Speaking of roster moves and a couple of... this jawan james story uh is is really interesting so for those who aren't totally up to speed on offensive tackle transactions in the middle of june uh so jawan james was on the broncos he opted out last season so he you know he gave up the chance to play last year was pretty highly regarded from the year before. This offseason, in an off-site training session, not at the Broncos facility, he injured his Achilles,

and Denver caught him, and they are trying to avoid his salary, so they're not going to pay him. But Baltimore signed him to a two-year deal this week um which i think is like really interesting for baltimore they're already claiming that hey he might even be able to come back this season which would be somewhat of a surprise given the achilles injury and offensive lineman um i don't know there's a lot to react to here but i i'm curious i guess jeff what stands out to you that he's filing grievance against the Broncos, not against the advice from the NFLPA to not go there, right? He's basically alleging that the Broncos sent him workouts

and he was following the workouts the Broncos sent him. And it just feels tough to prove that you're doing that. feels tough to prove that you're doing that but also you did it when you had otas to be at right he chose not to be there and so it feels very tough for him to get this money back because it's in the contract they can do this it's not illegal to to cut a player who's hurt in this manner. Put him on a non-football entry list. The PA is in charge of these negotiations. The PA is the one who allowed this to be put in the CBA or didn't negotiate it out. So while he can't file agreements against the PA, which people thought he would do because I don't think there's any grounds there, he's not winning this one either, Matt.

Well, can you explain why someone like him would not go to OTAs and work out on his own? Like Aaron Rodgers is one thing, but like why was he working on his own in the first place? Well, if you recall when there was a big stink about NFL players boycotting the offseason workouts. And there's different phases of offseason. There's phase one, which is just lifting meetings. There's phase two, which is lifting meetings, a little bit of on-field work. And there's phase three, which is the organized team activities, really the OTAs, when you're on the field practicing.

We're seeing some clips of those, right? People tweeting about those. And there's the minicamp. The NFLpa told the players to stay away as basically a boycott now again these are voluntary outside of the mandatory minicamp so and there are players that don't go anyways but because they were so forceful about it right because they they wanted this to be a thing when juwan james got hurt the nfl used this as an example of why you should be in offseason workouts because if he had gone hurt in denver they would have had to pay him his salary

this is now they could have found a way to you know to do some sort of injury settlement but he would have made a lot of money this season if he had gone hurt at the brockless facility so this is what it's about it's about the and i'll be fair a lot of times if you get hurt away from the facility that the team will just pay you we'll just pay you i mean like oh it sucks it happened like you got hurt but we like you you're part of our future we're gonna pay you juan james sat out in 2020 he played i believe three games in 2019 they paid him a lot of money and they haven't got the return back on Juwan James yet. So they got rid of him. Like, this is all—like, if this happens to Pat Mahomes, the Chiefs aren't cutting Pat Mahomes.

They're not redoing his deal. They pay him out, and he gets ready for next season. But it happened to a player who the Broncos, you know, were questioning his commitment, sat out 2020, played three games in 2019. There was some talk about him not kind of coming back as fast as he should be. And so that's part of all of this. And the PA so forceful boycott, which a bunch of players said, you know, give the two birds to him. A lot of players showed up because guess what? We kind of like obviously the program. It's easy. It's no stress, fun to hang out with our buddies. We enjoy being there. It fight in my opinion not worth having um and we're seeing now obviously big numbers at these otas yeah well tom brady was the one who was like we need to i think he said like stand united and not go to

these otas and of course tom brady at minicamp even though he's 40 000 years old and doesn't need to be there but he's he's there anyway so kind of funny move by him um i don't know man i i think that if juan james hadn't opted out of last season which i don't think should necessarily be held against him you know we don't know his medical situation we shouldn't um that's obviously like a part of this and it's funny i mean he on the other hand uh and his grievance that he's filing he's talking about how denver uh cut some corners on their covid protocols or something like that so he's trying to muck this thing up um it's ugly i think that i i don't know i mean this whole like

union ota's thing just felt like it it fell kind of on its face. And I imagine as a player, like, why wouldn't you want to train at the facility? Like if something happens, it's, it's there, they give you free food. Like you get roster bonuses. Like, why wouldn't you go there? Well, your, your workout, your workout is better away from the facility.

Okay. But you, you, again, you're, you you're there's a lot of benefits of being the facility especially you know if you're a young player helps you learn about um you know the the playbook gets you in with the coaches um and there's just a lot of benefits of it like again you're you hang out with your with your buddies you enjoy yourself so um it's i i i liked it i'm not gonna lie i liked it why is it better to work out on your own you get a better workout it's it's more tailored to what you do um you know you have your trainer there you know the workout at the facility tend to be kind of just very generic hmm yeah interesting well i don't know well the other piece of this obviously is good for the

ravens uh you know everything this is just like what happens it's like oh some like some team had a dumb thing and then a good player goes to baltimore for nothing like okay perfect like that's just sort of how the nfl works um but enough about joan james let's i've been waiting to talk to you about this topic for a while so So in a sport we don't talk often about here in tennis, Naomi Osaka, she cited some some mental health issues that forced her, unfortunately, to withdraw from the French Open. She was fined. She was fined for not showing up to press obligations. And it became this whole kerfuffle. And of course, we started to think about how that applies to the NFL, right? Like the NFL, there's so much media availability.

There's so much interaction between the media and players that it just feels like a matter of time before in some of the other sports that this issue is going to rear its head. So I'm curious what you thought of what Osaka did and how you think this will come back around in the NFL, if at all. Yeah, so I am very glad she spoke about her mental health, right? And I hope she seeks the help she needs and feels better very soon. Because far too many athletes don't talk about any of this right they'll talk about anxiety depression um you know uh you know being down being up whatever the stress all you want to

talk about so i saw a sports psychologist for 10 12 years after my sophomore year in college maybe my junior year in college i forget which one uh i was tired of talking my dad about stuff and he's like he found me someone to talk to he was great the best thing i've ever done in my life um and again i don't think i was depressed anxiety i don't think any of that was was what i was dealing with i just need someone to talk to and when i had you know times in my career in my personal life when i've just needed someone to talk to. And I saw him fairly regularly for years. And then kind of the older I got, got a relationship, kind of got my own life going. I didn't need him as much.

But I call him every now and then and we talk. And so I have no problem talking about mental health. I think more athletes should, but we know for so long that it was looked down upon, right? If you're weak, you're not mentally stable. A lot of teams, I think in the NFL specifically, would still look down on a player if they said, I need a day because I'm depressed, right? If you're weak, you're not mentally stable. A lot of teams, I think in the NFL specifically, would still look down on a player if they said, I need a day because I'm depressed, right? And we've seen some teams do a better job of it. We know that there are players in the NFL

who have bad anxiety, who have missed games. I think Brandon Brooks famously, right? Eagle's right guard. Woke up one morning, just the anxiety was too much and he had to miss the game. We saw your team, Washington football team, hired, think the first clinician, right, the first doctor, to help their athletes. So we're moving in the right direction. Not on the flip side of that, but part of the discussion, I guess, is that she did not want to do media, take media questions and do her media responsibilities better through text.

There can be a medium in the middle right there can be a place where it's not no media and 24 7 access right and there could be a happy place because look we're in the media now you're if you want to call yourself someone in the media be my guest matt i'm in the media now and talking to players is very helpful for my job. And I'm not even like a beat reporter. I'm not in the locker room every day. Just being able to talk. And I don't do any of those interviews. But talking to players after games, after practice,

is a great way to build a relationship between the reporter who's reporting on the team and giving the information out to the fans and you. And it can also help your next broadcasting career, endorsement deals, right? It helps everyone learn about you. But there can also be a way where an athlete like Osaka says, hey, I'm not comfortable with it. Can we adjust the rules of how we do this,

the way we do this to help me out, right? If she went to the Tennis Association and said, look, I just want to do one-on-one interviews i want to make this more informal i want submitted questions beforehand whatever it is i think there's a way matt to have it where where you can ask her some things about her game about herself about life whatever you want to do or not do and not have it be so formal of like her sitting in front of 50 cameras in front of a zoom and everyone yelling stuff at her. I think there can be a way. Okay.

You know, if a player says, Hey, Hey, my, you know, my PR guy, I just,

you know what, can we, can we do something smaller, more whatever it is, man, I think there could be a way where we can still do the job as media and players can still talk to us, but not be so formal as to where there's anxiety

involved with it i i couldn't agree more and you you gave a lot to react to um the first thing is i think you're right like people are sort of presenting this problem like mike florio wrote this thing it basically concluded it said you know players who don't want to talk shouldn't have to and i disagree with that right like that means that it would turn into sort of like WWE where everyone only talks when they want to make news and it becomes very selective and whatever. I think that the most important piece of what you just said is there is like, there's, there, there is this sort of like inhuman kind of transactional quality of the reporter player dynamic that just happens and i think it probably started a long time ago but you know when you go

into a locker room like i'm really curious like what how you feel about this like as a guy who you know was never got very far in like the reporting side of the business, but like has gone into a locker room as media before. Like it's the weirdest process. I think that you could possibly conceive of, like you think as a fan of sports, you're like, wow, I get to go into a locker room. Like what that actually means is players are like changing or like getting into their rhythm for the pregame or, you know,

they just lost or won or whatever. They're going through some experience. And then there's all these like dudes standing around, staring at them and waiting for them to sort of like make themselves available, like often, like while they're changing their clothes, like it's this very weird dynamic. And then, like you said, Jeff, there's just like this sort of like swarm of people that come to you and just like shout questions.

And as a person, like I hated doing it. I thought it was like a very inhumane way to sort of have a conversation with someone. And, you know, it was clear the players don't really like it either, but it's in place because it's like a marketing thing for the sport. Like it's good to give access to these players, to force them to talk so that the fans can follow along, like you said i think the way that this is going to go in the nfl is there is going to be some sort of adjustment that maybe gets made i think it will be a healthy one but this idea of like oh like you shouldn't talk if you don't have to like of course we need to be

more considerate of people who say like hey i, I can't do this today. Like, obviously, but there has to be a balance between treating people like human beings who may not want to talk to the media in the way that they currently do while also, you know, it is part of the job. Like it's not every other job. This is a really unique job in the NFL specifically, where like you have a responsibility to be an ambassador of the sport, kind of whether you'd like it or not, it comes with the paycheck. So I don't know. It's, it's a complicated one. There's not like an easy solution because it's a hard problem. So you've been in locker rooms, tried to interviews before. Yeah. For, for, for like, for Katie Nolan show or just like for what?

No, I mean, in college, I interned at the Washington post the Baltimore sun and like would go and, you know, do game stories and stuff. And I remember I, I mean, in college, I interned at the Washington Post, the Baltimore Sun and like would go and, you know, do game stories and stuff. And I remember I did. I talked to Kevin Durant once and it was like so uncomfortable. First of all, right. He's a foot taller than me and he's younger than me. So I remember going to this locker room and I like luckily was asking about like his high school coach who was like getting honored. And all these reporters are like, you know know what do you think of john wall like how's it feel to be back in dc and he just like hated it and this was but this was back in his okc days when you know now he would probably have something funny to say to the media members because he's grown up a little bit

but he he is he is he's spicy i mean people say I respect that he goes after people on Twitter, but it's like, why do you care, Kevin Durant? Like you're the best player. Maybe it's because he doesn't get the recognition, I would imagine. But I also don't think Jay Williams was lying about the conversation. Jay Williams just shouldn't have shared the conversation. I agree with that. But I'm curious, like as a player a player like isn't it isn't it effing weird like having all these

strangers like watching you get dressed like that can't be comfortable it is it is you get used to it but it is um especially like when when there's like when the women are there like it's uh yeah just like drop your drows and and and just continue on uh and other famous like people too it's like it's like this weird you know trust that has to go all around and i mean you talk about talking to players after games like you're not going to them in their lockers you're texting you're like people you already know like that's how a real conversation happens right like it's not the way that it's currently designed. And I imagine in tennis, you're going all around the world and there's people in different languages and, you know, travel and all this other stuff that must

be overwhelming. I fully understand that going in front of the media and the way that you're talking about it, right? Where you're sitting and there's 75 cameras in your face and for someone who is in their mental health is not tip-top and they already have anxiety and they already have stress and they already are a little depressed i can understand how that is miserable and how that's not fun and if you can avoid that you can avoid that at all costs which is what osaka was talking about. The locker room stuff, you know, she doesn't have to deal with that. They're not in their locker room. So that's why they have the press conferences like they do.

The locker room, when you're changed and dressed, it's not that bad, right? You have a one-on-one with a couple people. It's very, can be very low-key. You know, they're going to attack Eli when I was in Odell, when I was in New York. They're going to get those guys, but they can hide in the training room until the media's gone. There's ways to get out of doing that. That's why I think whatever the tennis organization, whoever it is, can work with

Naomi and say, hey, again, is there a way, can we have three people talk to you? Can we have a more intimate setting where it's a smaller room, less cameras? We're just going to, you know, maybe it's just audio only, whatever it is. Like, I think there's a medium there less cameras we're just gonna you know maybe it's just audio only whatever it's like i think there's a medium there right where you can kind of do so i'm with you like i i originally i saw her quote and i was like oh she's just getting out of this and then i read the rest of it i was like okay that makes more sense right originally you're like i think a lot of times athletes don't like doing the media and they just don't like doing it because they don't like to do it uh but obviously here there was a lot of background to it so again i praise her for

talking about her mental health. I think more athletes should do that. I wish they did. Yeah, I hope they do. And I hope that there's a way to come up with more player friendly and human friendly solutions to these problems,

because just cutting off the media entirely is not possible. Well, moving on from tennis to baseball, Jeff, you really wanted to talk about this um i i'm curious how this applies back to football but you you've you highlighted a story about uh what's going on in baseball where uh right now the the uh hitters across the league are batting 236 in a you know a recent offense boom it's a little bit surprising uh i'm curious what you make of this story and and uh what you want to talk

about yeah so um the reason why i want to get into this and we can look i'm a big baseball guy put my picks out every day i was talking to someone about this on my instagram at jeff schwartz i put my picks out all the time um and i know people probably get tired of it and i was talking to someone about this on my instagram at jeff schwartz i put my pics out all the time um and i know people probably get tired of it and i was talking to my buddy but he goes you you must like be doing really bad right you just like suck and i was like no i'm actually i think i'm nine i think i'm actually 99 and 100 which i'm getting juiced out but like that's not for baseball every day that's not bad it's not bad um so look they're putting sticky stuff on the on their their fingers. The spin rate of these balls is out of control.

And MLB said, look, we're going to fix this. And the first couple of days, like Trevor Bauer's spin rate went way down. All these guys' spin rate went way down. But the question I have, Matt, about cheating, okay? You know, baseball is notorious for cheating, right? Whether it's stealing signs, trash can banging, steroids, scuffing up balls. I did a podcast yesterday

with Blackjack and Paul Oduka, and Paul, he was talking about how he scuffed up baseballs, like, oh, he would just rub them in the dirt. He would, like, sharpen his clip on his shin guards so he could, like,

cut the baseball on it before throwing it back. So cheating happens, right, greenies and steroids, all this stuff, amphetamines. And obviously football. We've had deflate gate and spy gate and doctoring balls here and there and whatnot. How much cheating do fans really care about?

Like, as a fan of baseball, my thing with the steroid era was, hey, it was fun to watch. Like, I don't know. I want to be entertained. If dudes are throwing 101 miles an hour and that's entertaining, then so be it. The reason why they're not hitting is not because of the sticky stuff they put in the baseballs. It's the philosophy of baseball. But how much cheating in sports do we accept?

And what are the parameters for it? I think what happens is fans get really mad when their faith gets shattered like the thing about this the mcguire so's thing is like they became heroes then it was like oh you were lying like if someone found out that patrick mahomes could only throw 80 yards because he was putting you know whatever they're putting on the baseballs on a football, everyone would get mad. But I think everyone assumes like, yeah, there's painkillers.

Like, yeah, there's, you know, how did Terrell Suggs come back from an Achilles injury in eight months? Like stuff happens, you know what I mean? And I think that that kind of stuff, you know, we, I think as fans, we all accept. I think it's when you mentioned the astros the astros win the world series they have this five foot seven second baseman that hits 30 home runs and never strikes

out and then you're like oh this is why you know what i mean it's when we suspend our own disbelief about something we we've never seen before and then it's like oh well that's why they were cheating i think that's where the rug gets pulled out from. I think it's harder in a sport like football or basketball because in the actual game, there isn't that much you could do. Do you know what I mean? Like Steph Curry isn't – if Steph Curry took steroids, that wouldn't mean he could – that wouldn't change

that he can shoot from half court and make it. You know what I mean? It's a little bit different, and I think that's why baseball and this war of attrition gets sucked into all these scandals, but I'm not sure. I think what it comes down to is how much it helps a team win or not win, right? Because when everyone's taking steroids, it's kind of even playing field. Everyone's taking steroids.

Like, the Giants didn't win a World Series. They got to win an 0-2. The Cubs didn't win a World Series. Now, the Card an 0-2. The Cubs didn't win a World Series. Now the Cardinals, I don't think, won with McGuire during that time. Maybe early 2000s. I don't think, right? They won with like the Yadier Molina teams, right? Yeah, Pujols, yeah.

Yeah. So like they're not winning titles, right? They're not winning championships. Now, did Clemens win a championship with the Yankees? I don't think he did, right? Like I don't think Clemens won a championship. I'm going back a little bit. I'm used to all this stuff.

Again, so we're not seeing these guys win championships. So it doesn't upset us as much. Yes, they cheated. They took steroids. But when the Astros are banging on trash cans and helping them win a World Series, we take it more seriously. In football, if someone were stealing signs,

which the Patriots did which everyone did i'm not sure that really helped them win but everyone was doing it it shouldn't have been that big of a deal deflating footballs and inflating footballs whatever else good everyone's covering the football it is what it is like it doesn't it doesn't help now with the patriots of course people look at it a different way but i think that's what it is matt right like if if there was football it was cheating football where a team won because of that and again we don't have any fact that that happened we would look at it differently than a guy taking steroids which is funny no one cares if football players take steroids like it's like baseball player it's like oh my god football player it's like oh yeah

i guess he did him that i guess that makes sense yeah i think i think it's a presumption of innocence and guilt almost like i think people assume with football like you know there isn't the same shadow of doubt that there is on baseball like because of the mcguire so's thing we'll forever think that baseball is bullshit like i honestly think that that's what's going to happen to fans of our age with football. Yeah, I do. I don't give a shit. Do you care? I just think it's like I just think there's always shenanigans.

Like how many like the two there's there's been a massive scandal in baseball for, you know, it seems like every couple of years. And for all of these, you know, these great pitchers of the last era to just not matter like roger clemens just doesn't matter like you know because of steroids and stuff like that's that's that's a shame you know like you lose your faith in the sport for football it's just sort of like i also think people get popped in football like it happens and it was happening before where you see you know it doesn't always get enforced i.e ray lewis and the deer antler spray at the super bowl which by the way kind of goes under the radar but it does feel like there are consequences in the nfl where in baseball there wasn't ray lewis and super bowls

never uh it was always interesting huh yeah deer antler spray just no suspension investigation was after the season don't i mean just always on my mind yeah um all right what uh we ended with with time to laugh at funny tweets right yeah let's do that let's switch gears from my bitterness um all right jeff well i pitched this to you because i was reading a headline that just made me laugh and it was uh mason rudolph saying that his goal was to be the starting quarterback for the pittsburgh steelers and you i texted that to you and you wrote back yeah well i want to look like brad pitt and i was just sort of like yeah that's this is what happens around now is like there's all these these stupid ass stories from people who have too much time and no consequences

for them to just shoot off and say crazy stuff so So I'm curious, can you top Mason Rudolph saying, pretending that he's going to start over Ben Roethlisberger as a better headline? Well, to be fair, Mason Rudolph said 2022. Oh, well, does that change anything? As we're recording this today, Jordan Love is having like the best OTA of all time. People are like tweeting about it. He's with fire emojis. We predicted it.

It's just incredible. It's this time of year, man. Best shape of your life, right? Best shape of your life all the time, which is the way people write. But I want to get into my tweet of the week because this is going to be – we enjoy a good hearty laugh on this show so this lady uh tweet out at laura underscore hogan it's most incredible tweet i've ever seen it's the funniest tweet i've seen that wasn't supposed to be funny okay a teeny tiny inclusive

language thing i've tried to get better at this year is avoiding Northern Hemisphere-specific seasonal language. Like, instead of saying this summer, I say the months, I mean, or quarter three. Because it might not be that season for me. Excuse me. Because it might be that season for me, but not that season for everybody.

Oh, boy. Matt. Matt. Matt's crying. He's crying laughing. But here the responses are even better. I've stopped saying good morning as I realize it might be the afternoon or even nighttime for some.

Now I say happy day but this can be problematic if someone's having a bad one. I don't even know if what you're saying are jokes back or if people actually mean this no no i'll stop using color to describe things i see like instead of saying this red scarf i say the 450 thg scarf because it might be red for me but not the color for a colorblind person. What is happening right now, Matt? What are we doing? I'm looking forward to quarter three football this year.

When quarter three begins again. Yeah. I hope that you'll be able to take a trip next year on your Q2 break. You'll have a great holiday season in Q4. I'm Jewish. What if I follow the Hebrew calendar? There you go. Quarter three is like...

It's not 2021. It's like 5030 or something. It's like, yeah, it's like 5370. You know, but my new year is in September. So quarter three for me is not quarter three for you, Laura. You think about that, Laura? Like, seriously, I'm sorry if you're in the Southern Hemisphere right now

and it's snowing when it's 88 in Charlotte today. Like, I'm talking about where I live. I'm sorry that it's summer and hot here. And it's, who would think, if you're listening to this podcast, Matt, if I said, man, it's 89 in Charlotte today. It's supposed to rain. They're like, you know what?

Fuck Jeff Schwartz. He has Northern Hemisphere language. Like, what the hell, man? You should be more inclusive. And hey, what is that in Celsius? Like, let's go. Like, you got to concern everybody. Why do we?

Look, you know me, Matt. I am inclusive. I don't give a heck what people do in their personal lives. I'm welcoming everybody like we just got some of this a little too far man it makes like it makes some of us look a little wacky what it sure does um can i read you my other football related headlines that made me laugh okay uh this this one was good jared goff says he feels empowered by Lions coaches. What does that even mean?

I don't know, man. That's a classic June story. Here's my last one. Randy Gregory emerging as Cowboys leader. That was today from the Dallas Morning News. I loved it. That guy has played like three total games in his life. Oh, no.

That's not good. That one came from today. That was today. That was Dallas Morning News. I have it open behind a weird pop up ad. But yep. Randy Gregory focused on future emerging as Cowboys leader. I don't know if I buy it.

Wow. I don't buy it either. Well, Jeff, we ran the gamut from tennis to baseball to roasting some random lady on twitter i think uh i think we've we've given the people their money's worth random lady on twitter deserved to be roasted her account by the way is private unfortunately so we can't just we can't just make fun of her continually but i appreciate this podcast in a body bag i appreciate everyone listening to this podcast in quarter two, um,

as we headed to quarter three of the year. Uh, very enjoyable. Thank you for listening. Oh, by the way, well, before we get out of here,

if you're still listening, you really love our show. Shout out to intern Hank, who just shot his shot on the first episode. Let's go. You guys hired Hank and he came on the text thread and just fired away at topics like i i know you ever had an intern before like on our on how was nick with nick might have been intern at one point i don't know but he came hot dude i like it i loved it the

reason hank got hired is he is a fellow wft fan. That's not the only reason he got hired, but it certainly didn't hurt his case in my eyes. Yeah, it's a great job by Hank. Hopefully, we'll contribute lots of good ideas like you're doing us. Love it. Good work on day one. All right, everyone. Talk to you guys next week.

Have a great weekend. Stay safe out there. Talk to everyone later. Out.