Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - McCarthy, Rhule & Judge: Broaching NFL Head Coaches

Episode Date: January 7, 2020

Big NFL head coaching news broke just before — and during — today's episode. Geoff & Gabe get you all caught up on the latest out of Carolina, Dallas & New York. Matt Rhule —> Carolina: (3:05) Tom Brady’s future: (8:14) Mike McCarthy —> Dallas: (20:07) Taysom Hill's special skills: (29:32) Joe Judge —> New York: (32:19) DeShaun vs. KC: (37:59) 'Move the Line' Betting Segment: (45:24) Social Mailbag [@DavidReese92]: (54:45) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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is subject to certain limitations. Annual percentage yield on uninvested cash is paid by program banks and is variable. Robinhood Financial is not a bank. Just very grateful for, you know, the experience of playing this year for this team, this organization, and over the course of my career, too. So I appreciate it.

I hope I have always, you know, tried to do the right thing out there. And who knows what the future holds. So we'll leave it at that. From the athletic. I'm Jeff Schwartz, Dallas and Carolina have new head honchos. Tom Brady has decision to make and his taste some Hill, the best kept secret in the NFL.

It's Tuesday, January 7th. And this is Jeff Shorts is Smarter Than You. Welcome, everyone, into the program. What a wild and crazy wildcard weekend where, unfortunately, I was not smarter than y'all. I don't think I got one. I think I was 0 for 4 in straight-up picks this weekend. It was a wild weekend. Two six-seeds win, which I didn't see coming at all. And now we have the Patriots dead and done. Gabe Goodwin, are you happy now your Patriots are done?

I don't know if I believe it yet. When I was in high school, we lost to this team. And then like a week later, it turned out they had an ineligible kid on the team. So we got put back in the tournament. We won the tournament. They put you back in. They put us back in, even though we lost to an ineligible team. So they just advanced us. We won the tournament that year. Wait, they put you back in? They put us back in even though we lost to an ineligible team. So they just advanced us. We beat the next two teams. Champs. What sport is this? This is basketball. Wow. Temple Basketball League, in fact. Sophomore year.

Big thing for me and my friends. Could happen again for the Patriots. Stand by. Derek Henry is ineligible. The Patriots are back in the playoffs. Not only back in, advancing to the next round. So I'm not ruling it out until I see a next group of teams win.

I think for you and for most people's sakes the Patriots are officially dead. At least this year. And this is what we're going to talk about. I don't know if it's next year. I'll let you go first because you're the Patriots hater and I know you're reveling in this lack of success they had this season but you pitch me why this is over now.

Well, OK, hold on, Jeff. So let's just remind everyone how this is meant to work. I am the Internet people. OK, I channel the feelings, the ideas, sometimes the literal takes of the Internet. I pull them from the people you see on TV, the people you follow on Twitter, the fans who tweet at Jeff. That's where most of these ideas come from. Every now and then, though, it's just what this guy's brain thinks. With the Patriots, I admit my bias, okay? So I'm going to dive deep into the Patriots. I just have to throw an over-under at you first because it's breaking news and a name close to our heart. Matt Rule, hired by the Panthers, the great Matt Rule, over-under, five and a half wins this coming season, Jeff.

Over. Oh, wow. Matt Rule. Matt Rule, who you despise. You actually don't despise. I don't know anything about him. You don't understand that. The rule begins.

So I text two of, well, we have this group chain of basically college football people. And one works for ESPN, one works for CBS, one works for NFL Network. And so I text the group today and said, give me your Matt Rule stuff. And here are the answers. You ready? He's just a ball coach. Yeah. He's coached almost every position, both sides of the ball.

Developer, not stubborn, will adjust to talent. Personality will not drive guys away. His players at Baylor love him. He coaches hard, but develops like crazy. All right, wait a second. I didn love him he coaches uh hard but develops like crazy all right wait a second I didn't know he coached hard and this is where I think this is where I think what is advanced about him compared to other coaches in my opinion um he says that my friend of mine met with two head coaches in college football this past week for his scouting stuff. And he said that out of the two of them, Matt Rule has a great understanding of analytics,

kind of biophysical traits, and how to train players. So I think that that is a big part of this, is that David Tepper, the Panthers owner, wants to be analytical. He wants to base his franchise around this new emerging trend of using analytics to build your team and to game plan and function in that manner. And I think that is why Ruhle was hired.

But dude, he took Temple, a perennial crap team, to 11 wins. He took Baylor, a team that had only one with RG3 a Heisman winner to 11 wins in a big big time bowl game and I think I think you're I think you're mocking because you don't know him uh but I think he's better than the mocking you're giving him I'm not mocking him I'm mocking the media and those of us with takes out there who went from I don't know who this guy is but I'm now going to convince myself he's one of the best candidates for an NFL coaching job alive. The guy was 47 and 43 as a college coach at two programs that haven't won anything meaningful in a long, long time and good for

him for improving them. And I'm happy to a year, two years from now to say, you know what, man, Matt rules a great coach. He's the football guy with a T-1000 analytical mind. That's awesome. I like this guy. I'm willing to give him the chance. I just didn't understand why we all had to jump up and talk about how he has to have a job. He's turning down the Browns. He's going to be the Cowboys coach.

Why is all I ask. So here gets what? This seems like a good fit. I just gave you the reason why, but I also think that part of it is, you know is the media obviously can hype up a candidate, right? I mean, we see that all the time where – and we're going to talk about Mike McCarthy in a second, the new Cowboys coach. I mean, he did a six-minute video clip with NFL Network and went to PFF for six weeks or – I mean, six hours. EFF for six weeks or seven,

six hours. And now all of a sudden he has, you know, a, a new, you know, a new energy. And he's looked at much differently than he was two years ago. So we know the media plays a role in how this,

I think Matt rule though. And I mean, these are football guys that I talked to. I mean, I trust their opinion on this type of stuff. And when I've asked about coaches before, they've been pretty right. So while he's not a big name,

I think it's a good hire. And look, we see, Gabe, all the time that big names don't often turn out to be the best coaches. Right now, as we're doing this, the Cowboys are, I mean, the Giants are interviewing Jason Garrett to be their head coach, right? And would you have Jason Garrett or Matt Rule? You probably have the unknown, right? I think I would take Matt Rule. Again, I'm not hating on Matt Rule. You probably have the unknown, right? I think I would take Matt Rule.

Again, I'm not hating on Matt Rule. I just wanted to know how it is that we as a population of media takers went from, let me double check who this guy is and where he's worked before, to he must get hired this offseason. And I have suspected that he has very good people behind the scenes, hyping him up and making connections for him. I think he has the same agent as Urban and Lincoln Riley. He's got a big time agent. I bet he does. And listen, let him go. Let him go show us the right move. I think Carolina's a great job. You get the most exciting offensive player out there. You can do what you want at

quarterback because we don't think Cam's coming back, which means you can decide if this Allen kid's your guy or you want to go draft someone or you want to sign someone. I think they got a pretty decent team all around. They probably could have won a few more games if they hadn't had to give up at the end of the year. So I like it. Good for Matt Rule. I will not trash him ever again. I just thought the coverage of him was completely absurd. Let's get into the coverage of somebody else who I find to be easier to make fun of. And that's the guy you teased at the top show, Tom Brady. OK, so a few things you need to know just in case you'd forgotten. Ryan Fitzpatrick, he went to Harvard. Antonio Gates played basketball

in college. And Tom Brady is a free agent for the first time in his career. Get used to hearing it, everybody. It's going to lead every show until the day he signs somewhere. I think, I'm with Vegas here, I think he should think about the Chargers or the Browns now that it doesn't look like Dallas is where he's going. There are other teams out there, though. Jeff, where does Tom Brady make the most sense to play? And please, please try to tell me it's not Cleveland. Cleveland makes so much sense.

I want it so bad. Where's he going? He's staying in New England. What? Yeah, and I know it's fun to do the Cowboys thing that we've done for a little bit of time, but now with McCarthy there, that's not happening. That's not happening.

So here's why I think it's New England. And Dan Orlovsky, who works for ESPN, I had him on the radio the other day. He made a great point about the money. So let's start with the money. That's what I was talking about, right? He's always taking less. And I've always thought that the idea of taking less

because his wife makes a lot of money is kind of rubbish. It's not that big of a difference in the money he's taking taken less. And I've always thought that the idea of taking less because his wife makes a lot of money is kind of rubbish. It's not that big of a difference in the money he's taken less of. And I don't think his wife has anything to do with it. Actually, he's taken less to help the team. And part of that is, and we've talked about this, is where is that reinvestment going back into the team? Where is he seeing that help him win? And really, it hasn't. Nikhil Harry, the rookie this year, Sonny Michel, they never replaced Gronkowski, right?

There's issues they have in person. We'll get to that in just a second. But Dan made a good point. Why now, at his age, would he want to break the bank? Why now would he want to go to the Chargers in a half-empty stadium with no offensive line, in a tough division, just to make 30 million dollars a year which obviously in california is not 30 million dollars a year like why now would he want to break the bank he could have done it many times in his career so i i agree at that point well okay i do

too but can i just interrupt you for one second the stadium wouldn't be half full with tom brady that's i don't think that's the theory do you think do you think people in L.A. Seriously, you live in L.A. Yeah. Do you think if the Chargers started 0-2 with Tom Brady, people would show up to the stadium for the third game? No. They would need to start Leonardo DiCaprio to fill the stadium. But I think the theory is he would not allow them to be 0-2,

and then the Tom Brady mystique would fill the place up the way the Kobe mystique did and obviously you know LeBron's still a great player but LA affords its stars a little extra Zlatan came here and made people very excited but he was very I mean he was like very very good though too I mean remember he was making like crazy goals and yeah yeah

and that stadium is tiny compared to the new one which by the way you know of course every journalist ever flies in LA has got to take a picture of it. It's like a journalistic code or something. But, dude, the stadium looks massive. It looks pretty awesome from above. It is going to be great. That's why they need a big star like him.

But I took you off your point. So you don't – the money is not it. I understand that. The money is not that. So if Brady is still playing, he's playing to win, okay? Not winning in Los Angeles, all right? We understand that. He's not going to Dallas.

Not winning in Cleveland. Wait, wait, wait. Why not? Because ownership sucks. They have a terrible infrastructure there. The owner meddles too much. There's no history of winning in Cleveland. Does he want to play with all those divas at wide receiver?

Their offensive line is awful. He's never had of winning in Cleveland. Does he want to play with all those divas at wide receiver? Their offensive line is awful. He's never had a bad offensive line. This year, a bunch of injuries, and they really didn't play terribly the other night. But they made it through. He doesn't want to go to Cleveland, okay? He's not going to Cleveland. He's not going to Browns.

Never ending his career in Cleveland, all right? Okay. So we can look, by the way, at other teams where Payton Manning went to Denver. He had a great chance to win in Denver. He could have made more in Nashville. He could have made more with another team um you know we saw you know um uh farv went to minnesota he went to nfc championship game like he wants to win right like you want to win the titans are good are good team if he wants to go win somewhere i

think they if he goes there with their offensive line their run game they're improving defense obviously knows rabel well that would be a good spot for him. But I think in the end, Gabe, is that it's mutually beneficial for Brady and the Patriots to figure out a way to make this work. Because the best chance to win is staying in New England. And you have to find a way to get these weapons. And look, Nikhil Harry, I think, will be okay with a full offseason. Remember, he was hurt a lot this year. But they have to get a tight end. They have to get another wide receiver. They have to commit to getting guys that help this offense, not just this being stubborn and not paying for guys.

You're going to have to overpay to get some weapons for Tom Brady. Also, I think for the Patriots side game, is that if the Patriots let Tom Brady go, that's the end of everything. I think that's the end. Everyone's like they're an older team, and they're going to just cut everyone and just move on, and Belichick is probably leaving. I don't know if Belichick wants to coach a rebuilding Patriots team. So it feels like it's mutually beneficial

for both of them to come to an agreement to work on the roster, pay Tom Brady a little below market value, and try to win again next year and the year after. Okay. That's very logical. I would love to pick nits here with your arguments, but I can't. All of that made sense. There was a few parts that I didn't consider. That made me smarter. Thank you. I guess I just have to dig into the like human being part of this.

It's out there. These guys are aware that we all think they're breaking up. So you're saying this is like Brangelina here. Like every month at the grocery store, do they still sell those magazines? that we all think they're breaking up. So you're saying this is like Brangelina here. Like every month at the grocery store, do they still sell those magazines at the grocery store checkout line? You know, what the hell? I'm sure they do, but... All right.

They've been breaking up for my whole lifetime, right? They were the hottest couple in Hollywood. And then for every month since then, we've been told, oh man, they're breaking up. Oh, they're good. And they never did. And they're still happy, it seems. And they never did and they're still happy it seems and they they're they're still like hollywood's biggest couple i guess you're saying they're just going to get over all these rumors and all these reports and just go

back to work and just be brady and belichick forever and ever i mean part i mean they're professionals right i mean that's their job is to do this and also i mean look gabe they've been together for so long now they're going to have disagreements and arguments and not like each other at times. But I don't know if Tom Brady, his age, wants to start over with a new training staff, with a new weight coach, a new building to be in, a new way to install and watch film. And of course, some of those he'll bring over with him to a new team. film. And of course, some of those he'll bring over with him to a new team. But a new practice schedule, a new way to handle fourth downs. I think he has a lot of control what happens there. And I think that knowing and being familiar with the way things work is a big reason why they've been so successful. They just kind of do the same thing over and over again.

It just seems to work out. Obviously, it didn't this year. And I don't know if at his age he wants to start over again somewhere else and try to do the same thing, kind of create the same thing again. Maybe he's ready for that. Maybe he's ready to do something different at this age. But I don't know how many, I'll call these air quotes, old guys in any profession that like to reinvent themselves at kind of the end of their profession it doesn't seem like something that Brady

would be really interested in doing all right I'll buy that a reinvention at that age wouldn't be appealing but I I think that we're talking about with each of them like massive egos that they that he at least Brady hides pretty well that are in conflict because as we've talked about and you're suggesting like they can't share credit for this dynasty evenly they each think they're the 51 and until they break up and try to do it on their own they can't validate that thought they can't they can't make that case to the public so doesn't that mean something to each of them to just show they're the guy? I mean, I... Yeah, but okay. But Belichick,

I think Belichick's obviously very bright and he cares a lot about his legacy. Does he really want to be in charge of a rebuilding program without a franchise? They're not set up. Like Jimmy G's gone. Like Brady won that. They're not set up to jimmy g's gone like brady won that they're they're not set up to to rebuild there's nothing left to rebuild with like if brady leaves are you drafting a quarterback at 25 and then bill's starting over with a rookie are you like what do you think that's that's workable doesn't he think he can pull that off i don't think he does because i think part of this is that they're a very old team, and they have a bunch of guys that are free agents as well,

but I don't think you're going to want to match up in kind of an old, decaying team with a young quarterback. I feel like if you're going to do the young quarterback route, you're going to try to be young everywhere and take the three years it takes to kind of develop a team under that guy. Maybe Belichick is up for that challenge, and it's something that's quite possible. He's up for that guy. Maybe Belichick is up for that challenge. And it's something that's quite possible.

He's up for that challenge. But if it doesn't happen, it does tarnish his legacy quite a bit. So I think it'd be better if they just decided, hey, let's give it a year or two. And look, they might draft a quarterback this year. They might go sign a Ryan Tannehill this offseason, have a quality backup behind Tom Brady in case something happens. Or I don't think they can afford to spend a high draft pick on a quarterback, so they're really not going to have a quality backup behind tom brady in case something happens or you know i don't think they can afford to spend a high draft pick on a quarterback so they're really not gonna have a

quarterback in the future but find something to do to maybe start to build to your future i just can't see tom and belichick being like i this i the it works better for them if they all stay together okay well also by the way breaking news news, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, they are divorced. I don't know why I thought they were still together, but I think they've been divorced for years. It took a long time, but eventually that time came. So my analogy, often suspicious with my analogies,

this one especially bad. Let me throw a few at you before we turn to the cowboys the other teams listed as possibles that i don't think we've touched on yet so you talked about the browns you dismissed that one pretty quickly uh the carolina panthers are are similar bet in vegas for a place where brady lands with the new coach matt rule the genius uh any chance just quick quick answers on these. You think yes or no? No, not with a new coach. Okay, the Las Vegas Raiders with Gruden. Interesting.

Actually, it could work, but I think Gruden, probably too strong of a personality. I would probably say no on that, but that's actually really interesting. They got good offensive line, young parts on defense. They had a really good draft last year.

That team is fascinating to me. I could see, because in that offense, Brady would do well in it's a west coast offense quick throws they don't put a lot of stress on deep passing in that offense he also his arm strength will be fine there great tight end a couple little shifty receivers i think that out of all the teams is actually very interesting it's possible okay uh bucks we're gonna say no because they re-signed Jameis. Broncos, that sounds like they got their guy with Locke. Dolphins

are going to go use a draft pick, we think. Vikings might win the damn Super Bowl with Cousins. So we're going to rule all those out. After all of this, would you say it's Patriots most likely, maybe the Raiders, maybe the Chargers, but it's a bad idea? I think the Titans are a good one.

And Titans. Okay, well, we'll see. Let's see. If they win another game with Tannehill, it's kind of hard to get rid of him, don't you think? I mean, I know it's Ryan Tannehill, but if he's gone on like a really hot streak and takes him two rounds into the playoffs. Dude, he didn't play very well. Well, he isn't very good. Right.

So then you probably want to move on. If you could, Tom Brady or Ryan Tannehill, who are you taking? Well, I mean, obviously I'm going with Brady as much as I hate the guy. I got to take him. I mean, and I should clarify, I don't hate Tom Brady. I hate the idea of Tom Brady. Tom Brady, I don't know what he's like as a guy. I've never met him. I don't know anything about the dude other than, you know, I know about as much as about him personally as I do Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, who I didn't realize got divorced in 2016. All right, let's move along to something else we know about football, and the Cowboys specifically. So you mentioned Mike McCarthy off the top of the show.

We know that the former Packers coach got hired as the new Cowboys coach. We thought we were on some big recruiting mission by Jerry. We thought they were going to do something sexy and splashy. We'd spec about rumors of oh mcdaniels and brady would go over there we liked that idea in the end they just go with mike mccarthy um skip bayless the world's biggest cowboys fan alive a buddy of mine i want to say, tweeted this. After Coach Clapp, Jason Garrett, I wanted some charisma, magnetism, fiery leadership. Mike McCarthy makes Jason Garrett look like a dynamic motivator. So I think Skip is summing up what all of us kind of thought with this hire. Just like, okay, I guess, Mike McCarthy, that's not how you turn things around what are we missing here why was this maybe a good move well we've been over the this before i mean you're the one

who brought this to my attention boring is good right yeah i guess so boring is good um okay so this is interesting for many reasons um one is that obviously there was no big public search right we heard about marvin lew Lewis and we heard about Mike McCarthy. That was it. And it felt very obvious that the Cowboys wanted to target an experienced offensive coach to help Dak Prescott,

which makes a lot of sense, right? Because that's your number one asset. You have to make sure that you get him developed. And so they went that route. Now, did they talk to Urban Meyer? Probably. Did they call

lincoln riley probably i'm sure that they put out feelers on matt rule and all those guys and they might all said no but it's very clear wow matt rule turned them down it's very clear they wanted an experienced offensive coach um to make to make you know to have this job they also was reported they wanted dan mullen as their college coach which he's known to have a job. It also was reported they wanted Dan Mullen as their college coach, which he's known to have a long record of developing quarterbacks. The one thing that's interesting about McCarthy is the way we talk about him. And this goes back to a little bit of the Matt Rule discussion. So in Green Bay, he got stale.

Now, I know that a lot of his players, T.J. Ling, he loves Mike McCarthy. And you might love Mike McCarthy. He might be a great dude. He seems like a good guy. But his offense did get stale. And part of that is Aaron Rodgers didn't do what he was supposed to do. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why. But number one was that it just got stale.

There was no motion. There was no uniqueness to the offense. No new plays. It got stale. So this past year, we've seen through Peter King interview, through NFL Network piece as well, that he has spent this offseason or this season, I should say, watching film and deciding how to prepare for his next coaching job. He went to PFF for six hours and he decided he wanted a big analytic team, an eight-person analytic team in his new job and some new ideas and whatnot. The thing I caution, Gabe, is we've kind of heard this before from a lot of coaches, that they're going to change. And they most often don't. So if McCarthy does change and becomes a

different coach, then it's a great hire. If he becomes the same old coach he was in Green Bay, probably not going to be a great hire. So I guess the question is, do you believe everything we've heard about him the last month that he has kind of rebranded himself as this forward guy and has always been a guy that embraces? And he has gone for a fourth down more than most have, which is a big analytics movement idea. But I don't know, man. He's got to do something different offense. He's got to come out with a different offense. Okay, so let's unpack a little bit of this.

I don't think you can fully understand Mike McCarthy until you sort of look at his relationship with Aaron Rodgers. And you really got to go back into the history of this. Well, you know, so Mike McCarthy signals the change from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers. Rides Aaron Rodgers for a decade through some of the best quarterbacking we've ever seen. for a decade through some of the best quarterbacking we've ever seen maybe comes up a little short in terms of rings with just one but like explosive offense with a world-beating quarterback almost every year then after you know they've been together for a long long time it seems like Aaron sort of dips on him Aaron just is tired of it and doesn't want to listen to him. And all the reports last offseason were like, yeah, man, Aaron just ain't coachable any longer. McCarthy's given up. He's

lost the locker room. Rodgers has lost the locker room. It's a mess. OK, so my question about Mike McCarthy is, is that his fault? Is that Aaron Rodgers becoming too big of a personality, being too strong willed? Like What's the source of blame there? Because if he's successful with Dak Prescott, the same trajectory would happen, right? Dak would turn into Aaron and get sick of Mike and stop listening to him. And would Mike just fold up like he did for three years in Green Bay? I don't know. I really don't know.

So, you know, that I think is part of why does this guy deserve another chance? Was it him getting worked by his quarterback or was it him just being kind of a lazy, lazy coach by the end of his career? I don't know if we have a great answer for that. I think if you look at what's happened this year with Matt LaFleur, and this is a diamond a little bit on McCarthy that they're 13 and three. Yeah, I'd say left. a little bit on McCarthy that they're 13-3 this year. Yeah, I'd say. And there seems to be issues at times in games.

It happened a lot in that Lions game with the Packers where Aaron Rodgers kind of just was doing his own thing for a little bit. Again, it felt like he was not in the rhythm of the offense, which has been a problem, and that is a problem in McCarthy's offense. Now, the reason why that happened in McCarthy's offense was because he didn't trust McCarthy to basically call the right play, right? He got him so boring and stale and that people knew what was coming that Rodgers just did his own thing, okay? So it's a chicken and egg thing, right? Like, did Rodgers do his own thing because he doesn't like him?

Did he do it because he didn't trust McCarthy? Did McCarthy not like Rodgers? Like, I don't know what came first, but there was dysfunction there in Green Bay. Now, Dak Prescott's younger. He seems to be more open to probably McCarthy's offense and designs. He does not seem like a guy that's going to go out there and just do whatever he wants. He doesn't have the natural gifted ability that Rodgers does.

Rodgers was able to do all this stuff because he's just that gifted, and he's able to throw the ball not in rhythm because he's got a cannon of an arm and great accuracy Dak is not Aaron Rodgers Dak can't afford to not play in the system so that's why I think you it's going to be different this time around with the chemistry between Dak and McCarthy but it doesn't mean they're going to win a Super Bowls I just so but though in that Bowls. But that's a good explanation. Thank you for that. It would require then that Dak Prescott, who would get max money as a quarterback,

also then think of himself as a system guy who has to listen to the coach instead of the top guy out there. And we know that he's starting to feel himself right now. So I worry because it seems like he's walking into a situation he has not really been able to manage before. I would also make this point. Being a head coach is not exactly the same, but something like being a producer for a really big-name talent, right?

And there are times when I've seen producers just kind of throw their arms up and go like, I can't do anything. This guy's not going to listen. He's just going to do what he wants to do. He wants to make the first segment of the show all about this random crap no one cares about. I can't talk him off it. I'm just going to sit here and make sure the graphics look good. And that's all they do.

And that's sort of the same thing it seems like Mike McCarthy was doing with a talent like Rodgers. Just like, I can't do anything. He's just going to throw it wherever he wants. What do you want from me? I'm going to just take a few days off. So I kind of understand the thought process. It's just that ain't going to work it wherever he wants what do you want from me i'm going to just take take a few days off so i kind of understand the the thought process it's just that ain't going to work in dallas correct and so i that's why i i think look look for what mccarthy said about just you know wanting to wanting to reinvent himself i mean this is part of the reinvention and we'll see if he

actually does it do you buy this this? Charles Robinson of Yahoo tweeted, Here's something about Mike McCarthy that should encourage Dallas Cowboys fans. Remember how down many people were about Andy Reid when it unraveled in Philadelphia? What Reid needed was a change and a fresh start. Good, successful coaches can have great second lives in the NFL. Do you buy that? Andy Reid made five NFC Championship games. What are you talking about?

Okay. I didn't think you were going to buy that. What are we talking about? Cape up for Big Red. Let's hear it. I don't understand. Andy Reid was great in Philly, too, the entire time he was there. It's like minus one year.

All right. But do you buy the idea that a fresh start is? Yeah, of course. That's a thing. Bad example. I don't know why Andy Reid was. I would have used Belichick as the example, who was okay in Cleveland and became great. It's so funny.

It's so interesting how, and look, I get it, how much a Super Bowl win changes the way we look at coaches. If Andy Reid had a Super Bowl win, he'd be untouchable, which is our next topic. I think we're getting into that from the Saints side. But he'd be untouchable, but he doesn't have that ring so like mccarthy's talked about in the same sentence as andy reed which is kind of disrespectful to andy reed yeah i agree with that except that also you know you got to win a ring if you've coached

in the league and you're considered one of the best correct no and that's fair and he's had failures in the playoffs but um i just don't think he has like his um i don't think he has uh the respect that he probably deserves because of that yeah i agree with that all right so you sort of mentioned the saints sean payton gets plenty of respect because he has a ring and he's had great offenses great teams for most of the last 10 years a few down years but mostly overachieved in New Orleans and has obviously helped turn Drew Brees into a Hall of Famer. But Drew Brees is 41 years old and starting to tilt in the wrong direction, we think.

So they lose the other day, and the net result of that game, besides being just a heartbreaker for Saints fans, is everyone, everyone on Earth, everyone on Twitter, including Drew Brees, I would add, is in love with Taysom Hill. Here's Drew Brees talking about Taysom after the loss. He's unbelievable. I mean, truly. There's nobody like him.

In fact, I think on that drive, I think he might have been the guy to get the first down, and then he throws the pass, and then he's blocking for Alvin to score. I mean, come on. It's the NFL. This is the NFL we're talking about here, right? Not, you know, peewee. All right. So Drew Brees is loving on Taysom Hill and he's right. The guy can run, catch, block, throw. He almost won the game for the saints so he was in the game late in the fourth took a direct snap for a huge third down conversion two plays later takes a snap for a 28 yard gain gets him to the 20 looks like they're gonna score a go-ahead

touchdown then uh-oh drew breeze sack fumble ball goes the other direction they limp their way into ot they lose an ot i saw people saying why didn't they stick with tasem it was working now i see people saying it's time to move on from drew breeze we got tasem he should be the quarterback jeff is this dumb or really really dumb uh it's really really dumb i think you i think you called us in a text message this weekend that uh the people will be calling for drew breeze to to get the heave ho um and and by the way one of the best Drew Brees to get the heave-ho. And by the way, one of the best tweets of the weekend about the situation was put out by PFT Commentary. If you want to check out that tweet about Taysom Hill and Tebow,

it's fantastic. I know that far. Wait, wait, wait. You can't just tease it and tell people to go look at it and then not tell them what he said. All right, let me pull it up here. I got it. I'm ready for this.

You ready? Taysom Hill is faster than Tebow bullshit better passer than tebow more christian than tebow wow better punt protector than tebow only question now is can he hit better than 179 and double a all right that's okay that was the secondary part of this topic is a comparison to tebow i want to get into that for real because i think it's unfair to tim but of course tasem hill got everyone excited because you know he's a change of pace guy and he picked up some first downs and he and drew said it he can block he can catch he's he's an everything guy but should he be the replacement for drew breeze are we is that where we think this guy should be um real quick and uh this i'm gonna this is a breaking news right now it's important to discuss because i don't know who this person is um the giants are hiring patriot special teams coach

and wide receiver coach joe judge no come on that's not a person it's a real person ian raport joe judge yeah man they missed out on rule didn't they yeah they had to go from rule to joe judge uh yeah that's that's gonna be the head coach or like okay uh what do we know about joe judge he's throwing his arms up i've never heard of the man no never heard of the man okay uh oh do we make an all rise joke for the judge or something fire away this is live man we haven't had any time to plan for this i don't know what we what do you what do you even say to this listen i'll tell you what one thing is sure

the new york post headline writers are throwing everything on the board right now every judge pun you can think of is going to be considered for the back page this morning. Wow, okay, so we're going like way down the list of guys. They didn't even try to get McDaniels. They went for some dude who reports to him? Who reports to Bill. Okay. Wow. Joe Judge.

Well, I guess I don't have to ask if that's the answer in New York. We don't know and we don't think so yet, right? This kills Sheck's theory. Sheck thought that the Giants were to ask if that's the answer in new york we don't know and we don't think so yet right this kills sheck's theory sheck thought that the giants were going to bring to belichick himself not like some clipboard holder for belichick he thought bill was going to new york guess not i guess not wow gather yourself gather yourself around that idea before we go back to taste some hell i don't even know like okay well let's go back to taste someom Hill. I don't even know. Okay, well, let's go back to Taysom Hill.

Sorry for the interruption, but in poor news, breaking the podcast, got to cover it. So here's the thing about Taysom Hill. The Saints should have Drew Brees next year. Taysom Hill, he only threw the ball eight times this year. It's really great that you can have a guy that can throw the ball, can run the ball, can block Drew Brees all right. It's a great change of pace.

But the problem I have with the Saints is they came out flat again in a big situation, and they continue to make little mistakes on the coaching side. I don't know why Sean Payne, oh, I do know he gets a pass, obviously, he won a Super Bowl. But they lost as touchdown favorites in Seattle. They lost as eight-point favorites here. Even last year, I know the pass interference was obviously an issue, but there were game management issues or game management issues on sunday as well the way they they use the clock at the end of the game there's multiple third down weird play calls um why does champagne get a pass his team is continue is continuously good but doesn't ever cash in on it and they

almost look worse sometimes in the playoffs yeah well i mean and it looked like tasem hill was going to be his new magic bean that got him out of that criticism right so leaving the time out you know he didn't use it when he could have and his secret weapon would have been the way he advanced and got the people off his back um but but then he pulled him right right when tasem hill started getting rolling literally he went back to Breeze and Breeze fumbled so well yeah I mean that look I get why you go back to the hall of famer um you know there's only part of the two game is there's only a limited number of plays kind of in that in that Taysom Hill package like he's not running Drew Breeze's plays you know there's probably 10 plays in that package and eventually the 10 plays are up and you just can't go you know obviously teams will figure it out pretty quickly what you're doing and so you probably

want to save a couple of those plays for later in the game or another next week or whatever so i get why they went back to drew breeze so explain that a little bit to to fans who are listening and maybe this seems obvious to people but what you just said is important whenever the new sexy thing comes along and everyone sees one great drive. And with Taysom, we've had a few of these. Like he's blown up Twitter a few times this year where it's like, oh, my God, look at that. He's catching the ball now. Oh, my.

He ran for a first down. Look at him throwing it. He threw the deepest completion of the year for the Saints or the deepest in a couple of years. I mean, it was. Yeah. The ball's in the air for 12 seconds. Yeah. OK.

So like everyone thinks he can do everything, but if you actually put him on the field for 60 snaps a game, you're saying he's exposed quickly? Like, he's just some guy? Well, no, I'm saying that right now, the package they have for him in a game is, because Teddy Bridgewater is the backup quarterback, not Taysom Hill. Right.

The package they have for him in games is just a limited Taysom Hill package. So it's like, you know, it's two or it's probably more than two runs, but like four or five runs. Right. They have probably a quarterback sweep. They have, you know, the zone reads. They probably have one other, you know, quarterback power, let's say. And then they have maybe one or two passes off of that

i mean that's probably it five plays i mean it's not like they have a bunch of plays for him at quarterback he's not running drew breeze plays um so that's why eventually you just can't i mean you can keep doing it but you really don't have all that in you're not practicing it terribly much you're practicing the place for Drew Brees all the time. So I give it a win back to Brees. Okay. And so next year, Drew Brees looking kind of old, set some big records this year, but overall, you know, didn't look as good as he has always looked and lost this big game

at the end. So they go back to Brees and try it one more time. Oh, yes. They have to. Yeah. All right. Interesting note. Thank have to. Yeah. All right. Interesting note. Thank you, Zuri.

Taysom Hill named after Taysom Rotary Park, located in his hometown in Idaho. I don't know why that is. I won't speculate about why his family named him after a park. But, I mean, maybe he was destined to be a football guy, you know, named after a field. Let's move along. Number four topic of the day. Let's move along. Number four topic of the day, even though we snuck in some Matt Rule and then, of course, Joe Judge.

Now we're going to get to something we planned, which is a big game between the Chiefs, who are big favorites this weekend, against the Houston J.J. Watts. J.J. and company will be playing Pat Mahomes, coming off a bye and a six-game win streak. But the worst loss of the year for the Chiefs in the AFC came against those Texans. Troublesome. And that was without J.J. Watt, I will remind you. No, I think he would play that game. Oh, well, I just wanted to say his name one more time. Oh, what, because they don't show enough on the telecast? No, never enough.

You need to get it in? Let's go, guys. Come on, let's go. Let's go. They should have a mega cast, call it a J.J jj cast and just have a screen up of him at all times so we can always look at jj watt because i've never gotten tired of that uh deshaun ran for two touchdowns in that game hyde ran for 100 plus a touchdown their run game worked against the chiefs uh it was a problem and jokes aside now they have a better look at. The Texans have a better looking team overall.

Okay, so I don't know. I'm worried about those Chiefs as huge favorites. I feel like this could be a big, big problem for them at home. All right, so I know you're doing this just to troll me. No, I'm not. The Texans are not a good football team. All right. No, they're just not a good team.

Now, they're in the playoffs. Obviously, they won a game they probably shouldn't have won because the Bills' offense cannot stretch out any leads because Josh Allen, we saw how that went down. But the Texans are basically Deshaun Watson and Hopkins and a fuller place. They're three guys. And those three guys have to make up for a lot of coaching.

Do you know that Bill O'Brien has now coached four home playoff games with this current kind of team? I know Deshaun Watson wasn't there for maybe one or two of them. How many times has he been shut out in the first half of four home playoff games? Three? Yeah, three. Three. Three home playoff games have been shut out out that's atrocious that's terrible um they're just not a good team and i think that we need to get in if you look at dvoa which i

which i enjoy of course football outsiders it measures efficiency right so uh you know if it's third and two and you get a three yard run that's obviously good if it's first and ten you get a three yard run that's obviously bad so that's how i mean that's the easiest way to put it yep um houston is 23rd in the nfl right now in dvoa the other seven teams in the playoffs are one two or one to me one three four five seven nine and twelve houston is barely holding on barely their defense right now their weighted defense is one of the worst things I've ever seen. They're 27th in defense at the moment. They're not very good. And I think that we often forget that earlier games in the season between non-division opponents, I think, are weighted too heavily the way we look at things, right? The Chiefs in week six were missing, I think Tyreek Hills was first game back

from injury. They missed Sammy Watkins, Hitchens, Eric Fisher left tackle. Mahomes was beat up. They didn't have dudes. They're both different teams. The Texans are better on the offensive line. J.J. Watt's back. Fuller is injured, so that changes the way that they play in the game.

The Chiefs are better defensively. They're healthy now. I don't think this game is actually close at all. I mean, there has to be a bunch of weird plays, which unfortunately the Chiefs have had in unfortunate playoffs, but I cannot see this game being close. Like weird plays like J.J. Watt playing tight end? Something like that, yes.

In the red zone? Something cool like that with Jj watt don't you think though that like jj watt's presence makes deshaun watson better um no that must be a real thing you play football don't you think that some defensive guy can inspire i think i think that sacky had inspired the team in the game, so yes. Why are you accepting this total horseshit out of me? Why would you go and say yes to that? No, no, no. I'm saying that exact play helped the team because they held them to a field goal. I don't think JJ Watt makes Sean Watson better, but I think that that exact play he had helped the team.

Yeah, well, him doing his job, it makes that if he's good on defense, they're a better team. We know that. Right, so that's my answer. I don't't think emotionally it means anything i don't think even oh my god by the way by oh my god matt rule got 60 million dollars from the panthers 60 60 60 my guy matt rule seven years 60 million dollars can't wait to hear what joe judge is getting i know uh all right we're spinning off the rails here. You think the Chiefs clobbered the Texans. You're on record saying you don't think it's close.

Vegas thinks it's not going to be close, and you're saying more than that. I'm surprised. For all my J.J. Watt jokes, I do wonder if the defensive unit can keep it closer than most against the Chiefs. And Watson looks like, yeah, it's ugly. Yeah, the first half is almost always garbage for the Texans. But the second half, that dude's a magician. Yeah, but if you get down 21-3, you're not being the Chiefs. I don't know, man.

Deshaun seems like he can kind of do anything in the fourth quarter. He's really got it. And that's such a stupid thing to say. I have nothing to support that other than it seems like he always figures it out. thing to say i have nothing to support that other than it seems like he always figures it out that play that play to help them win on uh on sunday was outrageous just outrageous and i like i don't think there's anyone left in the playoffs who can do that lamar lamar could arguably like do it but then he just would have kept on running like he never would have been in that situation in the first place they wouldn't have gotten two guys on him i just think he's the best scrambling playmaker there is

especially late in game so i i it's probably gonna be the most fun game to watch this weekend over under was 50 and a half what are you taking on that um i would lean under lean under okay yeah all right you really betting on the chief's defense you have faith in them i like it this week i do yeah okay because i'll give you one more one more thing. Why before this actual like like smart thing not just a jokey thing.

The Texans are very bad at when teams pressure them. They let a guy free all the time like they like on the play to Sean Watson they never make

adjustments to that for whatever reason they let to Sean Watson throw hot all the time was called all the time. The Chiefs blitz a ton lately. They're going to find ways to get guys in his

face and that Houston has shown no ability to adjust to that whatsoever. Okay. Well, I mean, we're going to find out what comes of all that. I'm watching Honey Badger this weekend. That's the guy I want to keep a close eye on. I think he's going to make some plays. We're down to eight teams left

in the postseason, and The Athletic has specific shows for four of those teams. If you're a Chiefs fan, you've got Time's Hours with Seth Kaiser, Nate Taylor, and Josh Briscoe. The Vikings, check out Straight Cash with Chad Graff, Arif Hassan. If you're a Niners fan, check out Here's the Catch with Dave Lombardi and Matt Burrows. And if you're a Seahawks fan, your show has Seahawks Man to Man

with Michael Sean Duggar and co-host Christopher Kidd. So listen or hate listen to any of these shows as the playoffs continue and we'll work our way towards Super Bowl 54 in beautiful Miami. We're going to move the line. Over-under game we like to play. Days after the Super Bowl before the NFL changes this absurd PI rule. 0.5 days. Until the season is over?

As soon as the season ends and it's time to change things, how long does it take? Oh, it's the first thing that they change at the coaches' meeting. Like in March. Done. First thing. It's bye-bye. Goodbye. Do you think that at this point we're all just piling on?

Yes. I am so tired of the whining about officiating. I'm tired of it. Look, we had 508 plays this weekend, and two of them people were whining about. Just two. Yeah. It was a good weekend of officiating, folks.

All right? I don't think they should overturn that OPI. And yes, if you want to flag to JV and Clowney, sure thing. But at full speed, which is the way the game is played, it looks like a clean hit. Obviously, slow motion is a little different. Was he trying to hit him in the back? Yeah, it was a dirty hit, most likely. I don't think it's like a thing that's so offensive that we need to clutch our pearls about.

But in full speed, which is the way the game is played, mind you, the officials probably thought it was a clean hit, which I would understand in full speed, which is the way officials see the game. I think the whining about officiating, Gabe, is getting out of control. The reason why you guys think the game is being ruined, even though ratings continue to go up, they're up 7% this weekend. Most watched wildcard game ever, right?

Patriots, Titans. Sorry, Titans fans. It wasn't for you. And the reason why you think it's being ruined is because you are trying to ruin it by your nonsensical whining all the time about officiating. Just grow up, everybody. Please. We understand that OPL at the end of the game was not being called it was never being called it that that exact play happens 15 times a game all right just because it's the end of the game doesn't make it any more important than it

does in the third quarter it's just the whining has got to stop please stop it so you're just to clarify for people you're you're referring to the rudolph yes op Okay, fine. So I think if that's not against the Saints, we also aren't talking about it. I don't think that's just an official's complaint on that theme. That's the ongoing. Next year, however the Saints are eliminated, we're going to have to look to some conspiracy there just to prove that it's the fourth year in a row. So, okay. I mean, I'm with you. I think we all got to stop crying about it.

It was an overreaction to put some of these rules in place. It will be the right decision to get rid of some of these rules. We should all toughen up and watch football and accept that there's going to be some contact, and calling this game is hard. You said 508 calls and two are being debated, and one probably doesn't need to be debated at all. So that's a pretty good weekend. Yeah. All right.

Over under 7.5 rush yards from Marshawn Lynch versus the Packers this weekend. I'll just go over for fun. Probably nothing. He rushed for seven yards, but a touchdown. Seven yards last week against the Eagles. You think, is there any reason to keep him in the game plan? He served his purpose, right? He had a great stiff arm on a pass play.

Yeah. Listen, we knew they were pretty transparent. They signed him for a boost of energy. It got him the win they needed. Now it has them with momentum in the playoffs. Who knows what they might be able to surprise people this Sunday afternoon in Green Bay. I mean, Marshawn is part of the new energy, but he isn't the best running back on the team. This guy, Homer, looks like a better ball carrier.

No, look, Marshawn Lynch was never going to be the best runner on this team. Yeah, I mean, Russell, by the way, you've talked a lot this season about how notice that Russell, as mobile as he is, is not a guy who runs when it counts. Well, he ran nine times for the most yards of any of them this weekend.

Well, because he doesn't... That's not what I said. What I said is that... I like misquoting you, Jeff. It fires you up. What I said is that he is not... any of them this weekend well because he you know he doesn't that's not what i said what i said i like misquoting you jeff what i said is that he he is not i would not consider him a russian quarterback i think he does at all costs to avoid running but obviously when it opens up he has to do it now these aren't design runs right there's difference and this i think you're referring to lamar jackson the difference between russell wilson scrambling because no one's open and he has to versus designed runs he They're not designed runs.

He counted for 95% of their offense, by the way, this weekend. By the way, DK Metcalf. You're good, man. I like watching you play. Are you still using that nickname, Decaf Metcalf? Decaf Metcalf. Sorry, I said DK. But he's not Decaf anymore.

He's like a double shot of espresso now. Espresso Metcalf? That doesn't sound as good. Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to work on that one. Put that in the file with the Joe Judge puns. We'll come up with something. Joe Judge was a special teams coordinator for both Nick

Saban and Bill Belichick. That's how, that's why. That's his thing. So he's just the most boring person on earth. He's never been late to a meeting. That's all we know about the guy. Probably. Yeah. Alright. Okay. Moving along. Another guy who came up under Belichick and now looks like a meeting. That's all we know about the guy. Probably. Yeah. All right. Okay. Moving along. Another guy who came up under Belichick and now looks like a winner.

Odds. Mike Vrabel puts on pads and tackles Lamar Jackson himself this weekend. 1%. Very high. You think it might happen? Okay. Me too. As much as Titans fans annoy me on Twitter, I think Vrabel said he'd cut something off of his body if they won the Super Bowl.

So I kind of have to root for him to see if he'd actually do that he i'm pretty sure he did say that he was obviously kidding we think but um i mean i mean at that point he's been married a while he's had multiple kids does he really need the tip of it i mean i guess if you're gonna do it with the right anesthesia and proper surgery you're in i mean I mean, listen, he's a successful guy. I'm sure he could get the best medical care. It's a real question. Would he consider it? I mean, I wouldn't, but I'm not Mike Vrabel.

Huh? Yeah. Yeah. Well, OK. So you think. Let me ask you this. A real question. Not about the man's manhood is being a player's coach is being a rah-rah guy who meets

the players halfway to the sideline high-fives them all slaps them on the ass having a scowl on your face all the time is all being young frankly just being a young guy is that helpful like do players really respond to that because that's the type of bs we say but i i think it depends on on the coach man i really it really does. I think that young coaches can bring a lot of energy, and Vrabel being a former player. Andy Reid is not Vrabel, and people respect him. I think there's no one-size-fits-all, honestly. There really isn't.

But, I mean, these guys on the team grew up watching him do special stuff in Super Bowls. That doesn't matter. That does not matter. Did you ever play for a former player who, you know? I mean, I played with Andy Heck as my offensive line coach in in kansas city he was number one draft pick in like 1985 but like 15 years the nfl i mean obviously it was great that he was um that he was um uh you know he understood the game because he played so he didn't give you a lot of crap if you screwed

up in certain situations by the way greg badar tweets out this is to your point about joe judge as we continue to bring him up through the podcast judge is a really good coach who will be good in the room but this might be a little earlier for him he's not exactly mr personality yeah i wouldn't think so i mean if if belichick and saban have passed him back and forth uh personality is definitely not a specialty yeah yeah all right um last uh over under the day and then we'll get to some social stuff uh to a draft selection he he officially declared we all thought it was coming but it's it's official now he's leaving bam he's going to the draft so draft selection for tua uh before or after the fifth and a half pick which side of that are you on? I think he goes before.

I think I said earlier that I didn't think he'd go in the first round, but I kind of feel like he will now. But some of the teams that would have been interested actually started winning some games. Like Miami was where everyone was thinking, and then they may not use the pick on him now. Like where does he go? Okay, so here's what I think could happen i mean miami takes him

early you know in the top five i think five and then he could sit on pup for a year or at least half a season at least and feel and get really healthy and then come back for the for the end of season one i think like that makes a ton of sense if you're miami so almost like red shirting him essentially yeah basically yeah wow okay the value with a fifth year option and the and the potential of tua and the ability to you know miami still has a bunch of first round draft picks so they can still get other players right besides you know they have okay we got our quarterback good we still have two more first round draft picks you know we can either move up or down or we just draft two players in those spots they have they'll get plenty of talent anyways if they draft two at five

i don't think it's an overreach if you think he's your guy all right so it's bangles skins lions giants i wouldn't shout the lions out either yeah i don't know what stafford's contract is like but yeah well i mean you'd be getting a guy with a dislocated hip to sit behind a guy with a broken back and i'm not trying to make a joke about Matt Stafford, but honestly, he had a broken back. So they're obviously going to need a quarterback eventually. So Bengals, no way. We think they're going burrow skins.

They like Haskins. We think there'd be no point in bringing another young guy in. I think he slips past the dolphins or the dolphins move the pick. And I think just like we talked about with Brady earlier I think the Chargers make a reach here and just hope for the best it's it's something it's fresh blood that that can help fill a stadium up if it works they got their guy forever LA will love him you know he's from out here oh well as far as Cliff this is the closest big city to where he grew up in Hawaii um I could see that happening before I see Miami, but who knows?

Okay, let's wrap it up with a little bit of social here. You know what we do. We try to keep track of some things people are tweeting at you or in conversations you're engaged with. I'll read this one for you. It's from DavidReese92. How important are training staffs, and do players typically think about them at all

when deciding what teams to sign with in free agency? That's an interesting question. I would say probably no, because you kind of most people go with where the money's at. But I think that like with the Redskins, for example, who now revamp their whole training stuff, it just becomes an issue where if someone has an equal offer, they'll go somewhere else, obviously. Right. But you really don't know a lot about a training staff until you get there. And now everyone has their own people. They have their own rehab guys.

They fly them in. So the training staff is not as important as it was in the past. I don't think it matters very much. Oh, so Baker didn't screw up his chances of getting free agents when he threw his training staff under the bus? I don't think so. Okay, fair enough.

Well, Jeff, I think you've made us smarter today, not only with your clarifications on all the silly takes that swirl out there, but also with your breaking news. We covered Matt Rule got hired by the Panthers and is going to make $60 million over seven years. Someone named Joe Judge, who used to work for Nick Saban and Bill Belichick, will be the next coach of the New York Giants. This is odd now.

We've got a few coaches in a row who are not big names ending up in New York. I don't know how that's going to land. We'll look for the New York Post tomorrow. And you helped us make a few bets and pick some smart things for games coming this wild card weekend. Excuse me, divisional weekend. Divisional weekend. Divisional weekend.

So thank you as always. You can sign us off. And I know you have another show on Thursday. Yeah, we're back Thursday. This was a great show. We got a lot in here. It's fun to react to playoff weekend and coaches getting hired. Great time of year for the NFL.

It's one of the better weeks and weekends. So glad you guys are able to join us. Find us obviously on iTunes, Google Play, Google Podcasts. Also, of course, The Athletic and TheAthletic.com. We'll be back Thursday. Take care, everyone.