Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - More Rodgers Rumors, CFB Confusion, and Knicks in 7?!

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Geoff is back with Gabe. This week we discuss Aaron Rodgers Steelers rumors, Browns QB reps, the never ending CFB playoff confusion, USC’s ditching Notre Dame rivalry, and Knicks in 7. Geoff also introduces Gabe to the many nuances of hotel furniture. Listen to us on Cooler and subscribe to Pine sports using promo code "Geoff" for 50% off!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It is Friday, May 30th. I'm Josh Schwartz, this is Josh Schwartz, Smarter Than You, and we have a treat for you guys today. Matt Ford is away in Las Vegas, and we're not gonna bother him. According to the text message he sent, he'll be not reachable for the next couple of days in Jonesville, Vegas.

So we have Gabe Goodwin back on the show. It's been a long time. I did see you last week in Los Angeles. Thank you for lunch, I appreciate it. Gabe came strolling in there by the way, I was like, guys, I am hungry. And then proceeded to eat more than that, or me combined maybe.

Yes, I did eat more than you, which was unexpected. I was very hungry, I feel similarly today. But I'm more, I'm hungry to give some bad takes and get your reaction to them. I'm hungry to make some picks, which I don't normally get to do. I'm hungry to give some bad takes and get your reaction to them. I'm hungry to make some picks, which I don't normally get to do. I'm hungry to talk football. I've been talking basketball nonstop these days.

We will talk football. It is sort of the, not the dead period, but right sort of the end of off-season workouts, OTAs happening, little mini-camp stuff. We're getting some oddities from the media about reps for certain players. We'll talk about that in a few minutes. We will touch on basketball, as we did last episode.

Gabe is a Knicks fan. It's the one sport I think he's willing to talk about at the moment. Football, his football team, absolutely not. His baseball team. You're Mets, are you Mets guy too? Yeah. They're fine.

They're 34 and 22. I think I just saw they're playing the seven win Rockies starting tonight. That'll be hopefully a three game series sweep for the Mets. No one Soto, no one Soto talk for you today? Well, he's not off to a great start, but that's happened before.

No, listen, they took the Dodger series last week. I will be out at Dodger Stadium next week when the Mets come to town. And you know me, I'm not really a diehard until about September. Just like I wasn't a diehard Knicks fan until about the Detroit series. But that's okay.

That kind of fan is welcome everywhere. It is fine. We should not, one thing I don't like that we do on social media is we tell people how to be fans. Like it's okay to be a fan however you want to be a fan. Do you think I watch Oregon baseball all season? No, I'm gonna watch them tonight when they open the regional to the Oregon softball,

the college world series. I didn't watch a look of it until two weeks ago. Now I'm the biggest Oregon softball fan there ever was. That's fandom. It's okay to weave in and out as we go. Only 14 years left of Juan Soto though. So hopefully the next 14 years you guys can figure it out. Yeah, he and Bobby Bowe's contract

end around the same time. No, listen, I think the only job of a bandwagon, fair weather, casual, turn diehard, whatever you wanna call a person like myself, the only job we have, we should not be given crap for anything, as long as we respect the people who do put in the time Like I don't get to act like I'm the same as the guy who's watching every single night

He's different than me what I get to have a good time of the game without getting grief from him. Like that's all That's that's a fair trade-off, right? That's an absolute fair trade-off where you get to enjoy you what your way the dog gets to enjoy his way There is a little gatekeeping on some sports when it comes to that, but there's no gatekeeping here. When it comes to the NFL, not much happened. There is, by the way, a trade that just happened. I'll just mention it because it just happened.

I don't think it matters very much, but the Niners are trading for Eagles defensive end, Bryce Huff, who they got from the Jets, I believe, in a trade Which I don't think worked for anybody Niners just trying to find pass rush and he's back with Robert Sala So which is head coach, but he was about to make 17 million guarantee of affiliate this season I think they split the salary in half basically now that he's been trading the 49ers So just a tiny bit of NFL breaking news as we get started here, Gabe.

You, Jets fan, Bryce Huff, any scouting report, you got him, Bryce Huff for us. I have none, but I do think that Robert Sala as a coordinator is one of those, we'll be talking about that in January kind of things. That's gonna be a storyline of a playoff game. It's like, man, this guy coulda been one of the next big head coaches in the league,

and they got him over here coaching up D. Like, I think that will be a difference making move. It wasn't obviously what he wanted, but you know, he's qualified. He just had a bunch of garbage on the field for him. Yes, and I do think that Robitalo will be one of those guys who gets another head coaching job

by saying, hey, the Jets are a disaster. No one can win in New York. It wasn't Adam Gase thing, right? It's basically what it was. Like they were like, you just can't win in New York. We'll go somewhere else and win with a better quarterback and better situation. We will talk about the Jets former quarterback,

unfortunately, but where do you wanna start, Keith, do you wanna start with the Jets former quarterback? Let's start with some Browns quarterback talk? Could it be the same? Could the former Jets quarterback and the future Browns quarterback conversation overlap? Probably not, right? But no, let's talk Rogers,

because I can tell you this, Jeff. Yeah. I listened to another, not the first time I've done this to myself, another three hours of Aaron Rodgers with Joe Rogan Yeah looking for the truth man. I'm out there see Yeah, I got I did not get a lot of that and I got zero football insight in the three-hour conversation I don't think he said or even hinted in the direction of anything to do with football or his future in football

Found a way to talk about almost every other topic in the direction of anything to do with football or his future in football. Found a way to talk about almost every other topic in the world, but not football, the one thing I really would like to get his take on. So I think the latest reporting seems to be that the Steelers are the place, but yeah, I think you have feelings on that. Where are we? Yeah, okay, so before we get to that,

it's a three hour podcast. Are we listening on one and a half speed? Oh yeah. Okay, so but in the cars. I dialed it up even to 1.75. Ah, so like in the car back and forth between the house and work? Is that like, are the earbuds in?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a run and a car drive and like a walk to the store. And to be honest, I think I was probably writing some texts or emails. Like there's parts of it that were super interesting. Other parts you really nobody needed to hear. What was the most interesting part? Was there an interesting, stood out?

Honestly, what was most interesting is how much Aaron Rodgers appears to really want to do that. Like, I don't know if he would describe it this way, but he seemed to be showing Joe Rogan, hey, I can do this too. Like, I could sit up here and just sort of talk, and I'll be honest, it showed, for all the critiques there are of Joe Rogan,

I'm not here to litigate that, Joe Rogan is good at what Joe Rogan does. If you like his show, he's great at doing that show. It looked like Aaron Rodgers was trying to show him, hey, I can do that too, and he's not at that level in my opinion. He's just not. But when he retires eventually,

he will certainly get a podcasting job, but just won't be obviously Joe Rogan's job. I assume so, but I think he should then, like, yeah, I mean mean no one's boxing man He doesn't have to talk football all the time. He is a smart person who obviously reads a lot I just think he should weave in some of the things he knows a lot about like football I'm surprised for three hours and that never came up and that leads to sort of what I I think is The what Roger's thinking I'll tell you what other people are saying

So I to me I've said this for a while now, if he wanted to be a Pittsburgh Steeler, he already would be a Pittsburgh Steeler. Like, what are you waiting for, right? You've missed the entire off season now. Whenever you show up, you're gonna be behind the rest of your teammates and learning the playbook. There's not a lot of training camp anymore.

It's hard to catch up, all those things, right? Like guys that wanna play right now are mostly in the building. So there are some backup quarterbacks that haven't found a home yet, but Roger's not a backup. He's a starting quarterback, right? And you need to get in right away,

beat your teammates and be involved. The pushback, and I heard this today on the radio, I was listening to another podcast and someone in center was talking about it, was that the Steelers and Rogers have an understanding that Hugh will be a Pittsburgh Steeler, but there's something personal in his life he has to take care of now

that prevents him from being a Pittsburgh Steeler. And okay, so there's many ways that goes, right? Like what could it be? We can think of the worst things that happen, right? A family member's ill, right? Certainly would be unfortunate. And a friend is ill, like, or there's maybe other things

he's working on side projects or whatnot, or something with his body. I don't know what it is, okay? But I'll just say this. The rest of the starting core backs in the NFL are in OTAs right now, right? Everyone else is there. Everyone else has personal problems, Gabe.

And Roger's not the only player who has personal problems, right? And personal things to deal with. They're all there. It's four to six hours a day, three to four days a week. personal problems, Gabe. Aaron Rodgers is not the only player who has personal problems, right? And personal things to deal with. They're all there. It's four to six hours a day, three to four days a week. That's it. And everyone else is there, except Aaron Rodgers.

I remember last year for mandatory mini camp, everyone was there, except Aaron Rodgers. It was excused absence. Okay, but everyone else was there, except you. You keep doing things different than everyone else. That to me is like, I get it. We all personal issues and maybe Gabe, it'll come out that unfortunately a family member is sick.

I don't look like a jackass for saying all of this. I totally accept that responsibility if that happens. But again, you have time for three hours on Joe Rogan podcast. You can't convince me you don't have four hours to be in a facility three times a week. So whether or not they have this worked out, I don't know, people believe they do.

But again, if you really were committed to the football, you would be in the building right now. It's that simple. And I don't think he's committed to that, but Pittsburgh's in a bind because they don't have a quarterback. They have no one to say, okay, well, screw you, Rogers. We're gonna go get someone else.

Or we're gonna play, was everyone on a roster? Rogers has to leverage in the well, screw you, Rogers. We're gonna go get someone else or we're gonna play with everyone on our roster. Rogers has to leverage in this spot, which is unlike Pittsburgh. It's why, what did Terry Bradshaw say the other day? I don't know if you, he said something like, like he's a bum or something. That's not what I saw. What I saw was he should stay in California

and go to bark. He did say that, but he also caught he was a No joke, he called him a joke He's really saying that's a joke this to me. That is just to me a joke at a radio interview with 1037 the buzz Arkansas what I love local radio names the word out like the 103 5 the moose What are you gonna do bring him in for one year? Are you kidding me? The guy needs to stay in California,

go somewhere and chew on bark and whisper to the gods out there. So. That might be what the personal issue is. Maybe he's gotta go somewhere and chew on some bark. Bradshaw did say that Kenny Pickett, he liked Kenny Pickett, so that's also questionable. So.

I'm sensitive to the idea that players have personal things to deal with, right? We're humans, we have, but again, I look around and I say, well, everyone else is in the building, any building, and you're not. You're not committed to this, and if the Steelers do sign him, are you getting 100% of Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, I think, to build on what you're saying, Jeff,

you were a player. You think like many players think in this league. Even if he has a very good excuse, there are going to be people just like you where the optics are a little off. Now he shows up and there's a little bit of skepticism. There's a little bit of like, so you think you're different than me, huh?

Which was the problem in New York, which had become the problem in Green Bay. Like, if he really does wanna go to Pittsburgh because he thinks he has a chance at another ring there, presumably that's why he would wanna go there, right? They're just an above average quarterback away from being a real contender. Then wouldn't you wanna contend?

I mean, I don't follow why you'd wanna go in and immediately have the whole locker room be like, yes, we're glad he's here, but I'm not sure. Correct. I'm agreeing with you. You're trying to sell this idea that you are, you know, this savior of the organization, I guess. You can help them win a Super Bowl

and then you're not there to do the things that everyone else is doing to get ready to play that season. And look, if he shows up in training camp, he might start fast, but probably not. I mean, again, he's not played with Arnett Smith before, not to my knowledge, not played this offense before. He played in Green Bay,

which is a very specific offense that McCarthy had. And then he played in the Shanahan-McVay tree, right? With Le Fleur, and then with the same offense in New York. I mean, so you have a different offense, you have young offensive linemen there in Pittsburgh, as well that are good, we need to work with you. You have wide receivers you haven't worked with before. And if you're serious about being in there,

then the seriousness would be getting, you know, doing this job to the best of your ability. And I just don't think it's serious about that. If you want to be a podcaster, it's fine. Plenty of players do podcasts. That's not a big deal anymore. That's normal for players now to do other things. They're also in the building, Gabe.

They're also in the building. And I saw the one other thing I saw, or excuse me, I listened to, was that he didn't want to sign with the Steelers and then be away for personal reasons to then have us talk about it like we talked about at Missing Camp last year. But again, if you are strong enough your conviction to be a starting quarterback you deal with that noise, right?

Um for someone who like, you know very much to the media. He cares awful lot what the media says about him Uh, and that's always fun, right when someone would say I don't care about this, but you deeply do care So look, I I think he probably is a pittsburgh stealer at some point this year but when Look, I think he probably is a Pittsburgh Steeler at some point this year, but when Yeah, well, can I broaden this then and just say okay? Let's say he is let's say he gets there and he looks good The team embraces him he gives it the kind of effort we used to see from him at MVP level He probably doesn't have MVP left in his tank But above average is looks like it's still possible if he gives it the effort

I think so. Okay, so let's give him, you know top 15 quarterback in the league on a already very good roster with a Hall of Fame coach What's the ceiling for the Steelers though? I mean, I don't know how anyone thinks they get through the AFC this year So I don't even know why you'd wanna go to an AFC team. Well, this is what I've kind of said for a while now with Pittsburgh is like, I don't know what the end game is for the Steelers because they're just not going to win what they want to win this year. And I know they think that maybe Aaron and Aaron Rodgers

gets them to where they want to be. But look, the Steelers are in the position that I think is the worst to be in in sports, Gabe, which is good enough to sort of make the postseason not good enough to win a championship and not bad enough to rebuild. And you have to decide at some point to do one of two things.

We're gonna go for it, which is really hard to do, or we're gonna pull back and be bad and rebuild this thing. And you look at the age of some of their better players on defense especially, they're getting up in age a little bit. Offensively, they're young in offensive line, they're young at running back. There's some talent there to be had.

Let's talk about them training for John New Smith from Miami, which I mean, didn't play quarterback, but maybe they need a third tight end. So like there's some talent there. It's just the guy decided one way or the other. And I get being this pseudo playoff team every year and then losing the first round, I mean, there's an appeal to that as a franchise, right?

We're always gonna be competitive. We're always gonna be in it. Our fans are gonna be engaged. We're gonna have, we could sell that we're a playoff team each and every year. Those are all pauses for your fan base. I get it. But just logically speaking, right where they're at,

drafting 20th every year, Gabe, doesn't get them any closer to what the Steelers should expect every year, which is, they're a Super Bowl, they've won six Super Bowls. Like they're a franchise that expects to win Super Bowls every year, and they're just not doing the necessary thing. Now, I will say this, next draft,

the one coming up in 2026, will have like 15 guys in the first one. I mean, it's such a quarterback heavy draft, and that might not even include Arch Manning, who people said might not even come out. This is gonna be, it's a huge quarterback draft. So maybe next year is the year of Gabe where they go for it. They say like, okay, I don't know.

Let's talk about go for it with the quarterback in that situation. Yeah, I know what you mean. But look man, just from practical standpoint, you can't be in the rebuild mode with Mike Tomlin as your coach because one way or the other that guy's going to get you to 500. We know this.

He's done it with every single roster with no matter who the competition in his division is, he always gets his way all the way back to 500. So and he ain't quitting. So if you have Mike Tomlin and you're on the fence like you're describing your only option is go for it Because you can't be bad enough That's just how it is, especially with you know, the way they develop defensive players They can never go all the way into the top five naturally So they have to go for all of it, which means you need not only help

But you're gonna have to go through some combination of the Chiefs, the Bills, Ravens. You're gonna get at least one of them along the way, and then you got other problems out there. The Texans, well, I mean, depending on what the Dolphins put out there, the Dolphins, certainly in your own division, the Bengals, the oh, let's not forget about my chargers like the FCs stacked Denver doesn't suck anymore like I

Just don't I don't see what a quarterback can do Right now unless you have one of those top five guys No, you have to and the seniors have always pride themselves on on the idea that like, we're going to play defense, run the football, and those are the tenants that help you in the postseason. They absolutely do. Look at the Eagles, right? But then you have to have that dynamic quarterback piece, right? Like that has to be a part of, I mean, look who wins championships.

Tom Brady was not obviously physically dynamic with his legs, but dude was a great passer of the football. Like you have to, you have to have that as quarterback. And Darren Roach, I don't think is that guy right now. You know, Ken, to your point, can he still be an above average guy? I think possibly that's if it goes perfectly well. And then again, you're losing in the wild card round

on the road to the vision winner. You're in the same spot that you've been in. Yeah, I saw a good joke. I'm gonna butcher it. But it was something to the effect of I can already see the Steelers as an eight point dog on the road on the Saturday game in January. Like we just, that's just where it's at. Oh yeah, I saw that same tweet, yeah.

I saw that same tweet, like it was, yeah, it was, it's, that's what they're gonna be, because that's what they've sort of always, it's what they've been for, not always, but the last eight years, like they've been in that situation. Everyone applied for it until 2016. Yeah, no, I mean, it's a hard spot to be

when you lose the franchise quarterback, but still have the coach and the culture and a bunch of playmakers. Can we shift gears to college football for a few? Please, yes. Because we're talking playoffs. I gotta be honest man, my head's been in basketball, my head's been in coaching Little League Baseball,

my head's been in reading the front page of some newspapers trying to keep track of what's going on in the world. My head has not been deep in college football and all of the, I swipe past a lot of posts, the SEC is causing some sort of a problem with this, that, and the other, and then we're gonna have this many teams, but these are the way we're gonna do the rankings,

and man, I've lost track. What is today's controversy around the college football playoff, and who's pissed about what? Yeah, this is one of those stories where, this is a crude comment, but my offensive line coach, one of them used to say like, don't tell me about the pain, just show me the baby, right? Obviously crude, but like the idea of like,

I don't want to hear it, just like, get me results in the field, right? Yeah. And this is what the playoff is at right now where it's at 12, right? Yeah, and all we're hearing from Everyone mostly SEC this week because they had spring meetings and they're just complaining and whining nonsense about the system I'm talking Alabama is a three loss team dickie in the postseason. Just beat Oklahoma It's a 21-point favorite on the road. Just you know road. It's very simple, just beat Oklahoma and you're in. But now it's about expanding to 16 teams, right?

Or to 14 teams. And then it's about the format, right? Is it five automatic qualifiers plus 11? Is it, you know, do the Big Ten get four, the SEC get four, does this? Because look, the Big Ten, SEC basically control the purse strings, right? They are the ones with the big dogs

and they're the ones with these TV contracts. And I, Gabe, just wanna watch football. And the thing that frustrates me a little bit is how disingenuous some of the college football media has been around this subject, saying, well, the college football is still the same. Not really. No, it's not.

You can still enjoy college football, which I do, which you do, with the understanding that it's not. You can still enjoy college football, which I do, which you do, with the understanding that it's not the same sport anymore. You know, the playoff is, it is what it is. I mean, we're here now. I didn't like it. I said for a long time, I didn't think we needed to get to 12 teams.

But 16 teams, the goal is finding a champion. It's not a participation tournament for the SEC and the Big 10. It's finding a champion. The champion, a participation tournament for the SEC and the Big Ten. It's finding a champion. The champion, unfortunately, comes from like four teams. Four or five, that's it. Now, am I gonna watch the playoffs games? Absolutely, I'll watch all the football.

But for all this hubbub of this conference, this conference, this conference, the end result is the same six teams have a chance to win. They're primarily from the two major conferences. And it's just a lot of bickering back and forth and complaining and whining about the stuff. I mean, the BCS looks like it was super easy and we should go back to that

based on how we're complaining about this now. It's just off putting to me as someone who loves the sport. But the thing that's changed so much for me about the sport that we're gonna see even more as more teams make the playoff. It depends obviously where you are in your fandom, who you root for. So Oregon, they announced a lot of the called

triple all game times for the big games of the season. They had the draft and for those who don't know, like so ESPN has the SEC, right? The big 10 is split up with the big new kickoff game is at noon, right? Big 10 team. Then CBS has the 330 Big 10 game of the week. And then NBC has a 730 game every week.

That's how it is. So they have a draft, right? So like Fox, I think got the first two picks. They take Ohio State, Michigan, and they took Ohio State, Texas. Then I believe the next pick was CBS, NBC I should say, who took the Oregon Penn State game, made it a white out game.

So we're finding the results now of sort of the draft. I would love to be in that room by the way. That would be so cool to be in that room. Have you been in that room before? No, no. I've been, I know people who get to be in that room. I've never been in that room. Yeah, well I think the Bear, who I do my Bear bets with,

like sort of his room adjacent Like I think I think in the past he might have been in the room for that type of thing Which would be so much fun to be in the in the games drafted by networks class And of course, you know, the the big 12 is sort of split up between ESPN Fox So there's a little bit of jockey in there, but their games are obviously without Colorado now without should err there That's a little bit different in Colorado, but nonetheless, they're announcing these game times. Then Oregon goes to Penn State, September 27th, great game.

Penn State will be one at the start of the season maybe, Oregon will be seven or eight. And for years, that game would mean one or the other would be out of the playoff immediately. Now you can argue, the loser I should say, you can argue that that's not good for the sport. That it knocks a team out and by September 27th you're already like, whoa is me,

my team's not making the playoff. But it also has changed now to where the loser of that game, like if we lose that game, okay, like we lost, we'll still be a playoff team. It's an NFL rooting model, right? We're down the, where the NFL, so to argue that the sport has not changed on Saturdays and maybe from From first kickoff to the end of the whistle. It's the same sport

But not the way you root for it not the way like it's not it's not at all. So you know, you're USC fan You know USC in a 14 playoff No chance during the playoff this season like zero at 14 playoff, no chance during the playoff this season, like zero. 12 team playoff, 16 team playoff, you can make a case. I don't know, win 10 games, it changes the way everyone roots for teams. That's why it's different now.

And it could be good, could be bad, but I just, I'm kind of over like talking about who gets all the net qualifiers, this and that, who schedule tougher. The SEC teams who schedule tougher, quote unquote tougher because they're a tougher conference, they recruit and have the money in the facility to play those schedules, right?

Group teams that are SMU, that have an easier schedule, don't have the money and resource that Alabama does. Like it evens out, Gabe, because of those reasons. So they argue that, well, Indiana didn't have a tough schedule. Well, last year they just didn't and they happened to be really good. Well, guess what? This year the schedule's tougher, they're not as good.

They won't be a playoff team. Like it just, wins should matter. Like I get schedule matters. I understand Alabama had a tough schedule with Indiana, but Alabama also lost games they should have won. It's that simple. Indiana won the games they should have won. And in the end, Alabama wasn't winning the championship.

Sorry they didn't get in. I don't tell you, do better this season. So that's my take on it. I love the sport, but just show me the baby, man. Yeah, well, I'm with you on that. I will just to poke you a little bit though. Isn't the beauty of combat sports that you fight your weight class?

Nobody's ever been like, okay, but Floyd Mayweather should fight Mike Tyson. We all understand that's not the right fight. That doesn't make any sense. That wouldn't prove anything in either direction. The issue with college football is your heavyweights are now fighting your lightweights and we're pretending that that's a fair fight.

And so the question becomes, because you are a heavyweight, do you automatically get the better seed or do you have to fight it out however it takes? Isn't that where we are? Who should get an automatic one? Who should get the week off? That's where the debates seem to be centered. Not to make you talk about the birthing of the baby here,

but that's what we're talking about. Right, but this is why the expanded playoff to me wasn't needed because if it's heavyweight versus heavyweight, you're gonna get them in the four team playoff, right? You're just gonna get the four best teams and like there'll be SEC and Big 10 teams and so be it, the four best teams are in. Now with 12, you get in the nuances of,

okay, well, SMU had a great season. Well, they won, let's say for a second ACC or Indiana had a great season. How do we look at them versus Alabama? To me, you just can't reward Alabama every year for playing in the better conference. Because again, they have the resources to beat Oklahoma and they didn't.

So that's where the nuance of this is in. I get it. Maybe the solution is one is it just goes to big tenacity at their own playoff. Everyone else has another playoff and just call it a day. And that's maybe what we're going to anyways, Gabe, is that sort of model. But I thought last year was totally fine.

Indiana won the games they had to. Alabama did not, despite playing a better schedule. Alabama has better players than Indiana does. And every year it'll be different. Like this year, maybe we just get 12 big 10 SEC teams in, because that's the way it will. I mean, it's impossible with that, but 12 of 16, let's say, expense 16, you might end up with 12

of those teams in at a given year, because that's the way it works out. But again, we're not getting a different champion. And they did announce, by the way, they're gonna seed straight now, one through 12. So, which of course, the year after organ gets screwed by that, we make the change. So that was not not thank you guys

We probably lost Ohio State anyways in the championship game, but we're much different if we had played Boise State first and then Notre Dame and then Ohio State. Yeah Can I you are an organ guy? They're gonna be super relevant this year. You mentioned their Penn State game I'm gonna mention the USC game Because I do think there are teams with the pedigree better than Indiana's, right? USC is one of those teams that gets, you know, that people round up for USC

because of the history, the way that they probably don't for Indiana. The novelty helps Indiana, but nobody's like, yeah, they're great. Correct. If you look at USC happens to be, and I obviously pay a little closer attention to them than most, happens to have one of those schedules

that while I don't think they are an actual title contender this year, because I don't think the quarterback is where they need to be, they actually have a schedule that really could help them. Because if they beat Michigan at home, they can afford to go up to Oregon and lose as long as they beat Notre Dame.

We'll get back to that in a second. Like they could be one of those teams. It's like their one loss is very excused. They get a chance to be in the playoff, even though they aren't as good as some other teams. And they're sort of in Indiana because they got USC on their jersey. Yeah, I just, the thing with USC is I don't know,

who are their game records, who are their game changers right now on the roster? I think they don't have enough of those guys to win some of these games, which I know they're trying to fix now with all the recruiting, but that's my thing with USC, and they've gotten worse on the league of Raleigh now

for three straight years, which is kind of remarkable, I never thought we'd be thing with USC and they've gotten worse on Lincoln Riley now for three straight years, which is kind of remarkable. I never thought we'd be there with USC. I didn't tweet this because I just don't wanna deal with it, but I'm sure you saw the cover of NCAA 26. You see the cover of NCAA 26 by any chance? Yeah, I know it got some attention. Where are you going with this?

Well, Reggie Bush was on the cover, which is great. He last played for USC 20 years ago. And my USC take has been for a long time is they are stuck way in the past. I talk way too much about the past. And then lo and behold, gets you show up on the cover of a NCAA football, a player from 20 years ago.

That's USC's problem. They have not been able to find anything in 20 years to hold their hat on other than Reggie Bush Who was incredible best class player I've ever seen I played against him. He dominated us But that's my USC take was proven right there. Like they're stuck in the past still We just pretending that Caleb Williams didn't happen two years ago Wasn't why is he not on the cover? Look, I don't wanna talk out of my what here, but Reggie Bush being on the cover

is a bigger conversation than just USC being stuck in the past. Reggie Bush represents a lot of things that have changed in college football. Tim Tebow's on the cover, by way, your guy, Tim Tebow. Love Tim Tebow. But so was DJ Lagway, so like, their current quarterback's on the cover too. DeJarrod Robinson was on the cover,

and so was, I believe it's Brights Underwood, right? He's the young kid at Michigan. Look, I understand the point about Reggie Bush and what college football is now and how it represents the unfortunate corner. And what was taken from Reggie Bush That is now given to randos I

Agree, but again there wasn't There also did a thing with like traditions where they put like in the background. They had like different traditions There was no horse. No traveler there Lincoln Riley Just saying it's a USC, just something that passes over. We don't need to beat up on you. Can I ask you this? Here's where I wanted to go with it.

I know USC and their schedule and I see a path. Give me a few other teams like right now in May that you're like, you know, I don't know how great they are but man, the path looks nice. Got any of those? Well, I think that the path for like, like over just making it to basically the playoffs. I know it's hard to throw this at you without prep,

but like, on Indiana for this year, someone here like, you know, if you look at it, they're a little better than we think, and they have very few tough games. I think Texas Tech is gonna be in that mold. Okay, that's cool. Where their preseason schedule is, not preseason, out of conference is pretty easy.

And then in conference they do have some of the heavyweights, but they, you know, every time I stay I just don't know how good they're gonna be this year. Last year was a great run for them, but Texas Tech feels like one of those teams that could come out of nowhere. The problem is like the ACC, they're just like, isn't.

I mean, you know, I think it's gonna be Clemson Miami again. I don't see there being like a team just like, oh, oh wow, here's this team. And we're really, you know, the big 12 has been that conference for years. The big 10, you're basically looking at, but I will say that the big 10 is interesting. If this kid Bryce Underwood is really legit from Michigan,

they're live, I think, to win the Big Ten, but he's a true freshman. I mean, they're not, how often is that, you're winning conferences with true freshman quarterback. This is not happening in 2025. The Big Ten's gonna be Oregon, Penn State, Ohio State. And the SEC, Florida's interesting if Lagway is healthy and good.

Florida's the one interesting team out there because I think Lague is a special quarterback and he has a chance to be that guy if healthy. The other guy, the other one that I will give you, I think, I don't know how good the team is, but John Matier, I believe went to Oklahoma. I wanna make sure I have this right. I'm just looking at his roster and it's not updated. I want to make sure I have this right. Cause I was looking at his roster and it's not updated,

but I want to make sure I have this right. He is a quarterback from Washington state. And for those who might not have paid attention to Pac-12 football last season, he completed 3,100 yards, 65% completion percentage, and ran for nearly 1,000 yards as well, 826 yards. Dude is good, he is really good. And if Oklahoma can play defense with preventables,

Mateer's the real deal. Like they're a team that get tough conference, tough schedule, but they're a team that I think can overachieve if John Mateer is as good as I think he is. I like that one I'll tell you why Anyone who's about my level of college football insight, which is some but nowhere near yours Should be able to piece together, huh?

above average pack 12 quarterback transfers to a powerhouse quarterback transfers to a powerhouse suddenly becomes an amazing like guy that we all hear about in the Heisman race or maybe a top 10 pick in the NFL. There have been a few of those lately. That's become a little bit of a pipeline. Now granted the Pac-12 isn't the same as it was for the last few years but that like Washington State, Arizona State, Utah, like

these little, the non USC Oregon schools of the Pac-12 that then send a guy into the South somewhere, that guy becomes a superstar. Ole Miss has one of those guys. You know, they all, there are these guys that kind of- Obviously Miami did. Well, I'm thinking of course of Jaden and Cam Ward, but there have been a few others.

Yeah, no, and I think this is one of those where it's like, yeah, John Mattier is a name to focus on. All right, Gabe, I want to give you, I got 10 minutes, I got to pick the kids up from school. All right, let's go to New York Knicks. Oh, great, Knicks and Six. New York Knicks, impossible. They win game five, Indiana starters played atrocious.

And they're going to Indiana for game six now. The Indiana wins, but how has it been as a Knicks fan? This is probably the most fun you guys have had in years. And I like watching this team play because I like the way they play. The foul stuff with Brunson and SGA kind of annoys me, but that is what it is. But I like watching them play.

How's it been as a Knicks fan? I think that it reminds me of the Knicks teams of the 90s in a few ways that I love. So I grew up loving the underappreciated, outwork, not a star anywhere but in this city kind of guys. So I grew up on, you know, Starks and Mason and Charles Smith and like those types of guys. Josh Hart is one of those guys, clearly.

Oh yeah. Mitch is one of those guys. OG Ananobi is seemingly one of those guys. Jalen is not, Cat is not, although he has had some moments where he's won the people over. But I love rooting for a team where I can point, this is gonna sound corny, but I know you're gonna relate. I love rooting for a team where I can point to a player

and say, that's how you should play. And I point at Josh Hart, to my son who's seven, who's fine at basketball, He's pretty good actually, but he's not gonna go into the NBA. But I can say, play exactly like that guy plays and you will always make someone's team. Yeah. And so I like that.

I'll tell my son the same thing, rebound and pass the ball. I wanna shoot the ball. I'm like, you can, but that's the way you make everyone better and coaches see that. It's been a wild postseason. I mean, Indiana's won multiple games in the last second. The Knicks have won three games where they've been trying to get 20 points, which again,

I just don't even know how that's possible. No idea. But game six is upcoming. I think this a must win for the Pacers. Oh my God, they can't go back to the Garden. If they don't win game six, they're not winning game seven in the Garden. The Garden, by the way, I have been the privilege

of watching playoff hockey there in 2014 on some of the Giants. The Rangers went to the postseason, went to the Cup that year. Unfortunately, they lost to the Kings that year. Unfortunately, they lost the Kings that year. Alec Martinez had a double overtime game winning goal. I was in the building for the Easter conference, clincher against the Flyers.

MSG is like the best. It is a great place to watch sports and game seven is gonna be fricking wild if they get back there. I know everyone's focused on the celebrities and sure, they've shown out, but dude dude the fans They're passionate. They're into it. If Indiana does not win game six, they're not winning game seven. No chance in hell

Obviously, they're gonna be favored tomorrow. I will say this For all the modern innovations I go out to Intuit Dome here Awesome in a lot awesome in a lot of ways. My kids love it, the score, everything about it is really actually very cool. The acoustics are not the same as a place like MSG. And I don't know what it's like on the court for the players. I can't pretend to know what they feel in here. But dude, it's just a different experience

to be in Madison Square Garden. It is louder. It feels more cramped. But dude, it's just a different experience to be in Madison Square Garden. It is louder. It feels more cramped. Like it just feels grimy in a way that helps a family. It is. It's like you go outside, you're in, it's like New York City.

It's not the, like, I know New York City, there's parts of it that are more glitz and glamor, but not that part of New York City. It's midtown. Yeah. Like it's not like, like you walk out, you go to the subway, you see a giant rat. It's like,

well, dude, so this is my bias growing up on the East coast. I think there's something to be said for like freezing your ass off on your way in. And like, you finally get in and you get to like take that giant jacket off and just like scream your head off. And like the, the, the feeling of being in that hot place, knowing you're going back out there to just get the wind right up your face.

Like it makes a difference. Here you go to a game, my kids go to a game. And it's like, it's nicer outside than it is inside. You know, like. Oh, that's really true in Los Angeles. Yeah. That is, that's certainly fair. LA is, yeah, it's a true in Los Angeles. Yeah that that that is that's really fair to LA's Yeah, it's a different different vibe than the New York, obviously

So do you think they win you think they win game six? I think the Pacers probably win. Here's a take for it You ready? Did you see that clip of McAfee? Trolling everyone expertly trolling everyone. No, what do you do? He got a mic? I don't know how he got a mic But he has a mic he's speaking to all the Pacers fans in pregame. Oh, I saw that he claimed He's like didn't know that was happening. Okay, whatever so he calls out, you know in a perfect WWE way Great calls out spend Stiller and Spike Lee and Timothy Chalamet and he puts a little extra on each, like basically just boo the hell out of these guys.

And the fans do it. Here's my thing. And I got no issue with the way Pat does that. That's a performance. He's good at that kind of performance. That doesn't work in like a major city. No one, there isn't a person in New York who a whole arena knows.

Like Mike Francesa could walk out to the middle of Madison Square Garden and half the people would be like, who's this guy? It's only in a place like that, you know, Indianapolis, where a guy like that can be known to everyone, doing an act like that that is embraced. Oh yeah, I would imagine that people sitting even around the celebrities in New York City

don't even know who they are. Yeah. But that's the Midwest thing for you, right? That's the difference between a Midwest town and a New York City. And so I'm saying, I think that is, in many ways, an advantage they have. It feels like the way it is to go to a great college town

to watch a game, you can unite your fans better. It's like all these people wearing the exact same shirt. You get like 99% uniformity in these towns. I'm not making fun of them. This isn't a big city guy. It's awesome. You can't do that in New York City and L.A. You can't.

It doesn't work. The Lakers have tried over the years, it never works. It doesn't work. And then the Lakers fans just stopped. The funny thing about it is like, the OKC, there's one guy who never does it. Like, that's a big thing now. He's the guy that doesn't wear the shirt

that he's supposed to wear. You can't do the wear the team colored shirt thing in big cities. So I think it's goofy to say. I actually think it will make a difference in game six. Like I think those people know we don't get to the finals if we don't win tonight. And I think it will be crazy.

And I think Halliburton has proven he's as clutch as anyone. And I'm scared that they will win, but I'm holding up hope. My basketball tip, and with this, I think we, the Halliburton, it's more about Halliburton. We crown him as the guy that I don't think he is yet despite his good games. I mean, he, last night, Gabe, he had eight points in a closeout game.

And he had two at half time. He has these games where like SGA played poorly last series in game three and had like 25 points still. And I'm not saying that Halliburton and SGA are the same, that they're not, but Halliburton has these games where he just doesn't, he just is not on the stat sheet. You don't even know he exists. He had seven shot attempts last night.

In a close out situation. He had two games last series where he scored four points and 11 points. He had a game against the Cavs. Four points, zero rebounds, five assists. Last night, eight points, two rebounds, five assists. Last night, eight points, two rebounds, six assists. The game before, 32, 12, and 15, like we know we can do, that to me,

there's just like not that consistency yet, where you don't see that, I think, with the guys we consider to be those, no, there have been moments where he's been absolutely out of this world, yes. But you can't have eight points in a close out game and claim you're one of these guys that, and it's why he was voted overrated, I think,

because he has games like this where you just don't see that with other players who we talk about in that same caliber as him. Yeah, that's a really interesting way of putting it. And it might be also why people don't take him seriously until they have to, and then they do, and his life is hell, because you can't, maybe you can contain him if you try,

but for some reason people fool themselves into thinking he won't do it to them tonight, and most often he does. There are players in the NFL like that. Right, right, which is why like I So I was gonna I wrote our cover for Fox Sports. It'll be out soon about my best bets for this game like Pacers first quarter and I like how he burned over rebounds in the cysts cuz when he typically again the zigzag theory right bagging good game, but I can't do over points because He just might not shoot the ball. I Don't do over points because he just might not shoot the ball a lot. I don't know.

He can be a high volume guy or not be a high volume guy. You can't, when Anthony Edwards, for example, played poorly, I'd be like, yeah, next game's gonna shoot the ball 30 times. I mean, he's just gonna shoot the ball a bunch. SGA plays bad. Jokic can't make a shot one game. He'll shoot the ball 25 times.

I don't know if Halliburton will shoot the ball a bunch in the next game. And so that I think is the thing that, look again, incredibly clutch, big shots, big moments this year. Those are absolutely true. But I still think there's that, and that's why I think OKC,

I think OKC just, I think they win the next series four games to one. I think they sweep the Knicks and they probably beat the Pacers four games to one. I think they sweep the Knicks and they probably beat the Pacers four games to one. I think they're just a lot better than Indiana. And I think that's a big problem. If Halliburton's gonna have one or two of those games in the series, there's no way they're gonna win.

Yeah, I can't disagree with anything you just said. Can I ask you one quickie on the way out? Yes. You're a professional athlete. You've had stretches of your career where you were pretty solidly a starter. Other stretches where you kind of had to, you know, earn your spot or you were the first guy up if somebody went down and then other stretches where you were clearly not starting and coaches probably didn't want to see you on the field. From that perspective, as we think about Josh Hart and these like, the controversies we tried to create

about who starts and who doesn't, do you think a guy like Josh Hart actually cares at all about like being a starter? Yes. You do? What's what? I think he cares about being a starter. I don't know if he cares about it in this instance

where it feels like it's like one or two game situation. I think it's two games he hasn't started now, right? But he's still playing. He's throwing 35 minutes last time. He threw the first game before that. I mean, it's more just the status thing, I think, right? Like you get paid more as a starter. You get looked at differently if you're a starter,

even if you have the same minutes as you would as a starter. But look, Josh Hart, very clearly a team guy, he said it doesn't bother him, he said he suggested it, I think I heard him say, someone say that. I think there's part of him that's like, look, I'll do whatever it takes to win, because winning a championship changes lives and you wanna win a championship.

But I don't think he wants to be a backup. You know he's playing the same amount of minutes. It's just a pride thing. And Robinson's been fine. I mean, he had six and six last game. I don't even know if that makes much of a difference. I mean, defensively. He's a huge difference maker.

I think defensively, obviously, you know, Indian doesn't really have bigs per se that go inside, but it does limit Hallie Byrne's ability to drive as deep, I think, as he wants to in the paint. And if you get in Turner's face a little bit, you sort of derail some of his three point shot attempts. But Robinson's at six, he's at six points in four straight games now.

His number, by the way, is five and a half for game six. So I think a little bit of heart inside, Brian doesn't like it, but he does it because it's better for the team and he wants to win the championship. But I think if you told him next season you're working to start he'd be he'd have a problem with it. Okay. All right. Yeah That's good to hear from your perspective Is there anything we missed?

There is not my kids are due to be picked up in five minutes and I live seven minutes away So you better go we will end with this good seeing you buddy good seeing you last week we back next week guys hopefully Matt survives Vegas I'll talk to you guys then have a great weekend You