Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - NFL Trade Season, JJ Watt's Future, and Urban Meyer's Mishap

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

Geoff and Gabe look forward to the offseason, discussing potential trades for QBs around the league. They also delve into Russell Wilson's future in Seattle, JJ Watt's next destination, and Urban Meyer's hiring mishap. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's Tuesday, February 16th. We just lived through a weekend without football for the first time since August. And we're here to talk about football anyways, because football never sleeps. I'm Jeff Schwartz, alongside Gabe Goodwin. This is Jeff Schwartz. This morning with you, Gabe, how are you doing? How was it to be reintroduced to your family this weekend? I, yeah, I saw my whole family. My youngest turned one. So we were with family a lot for that. And then, yeah, no football to call work and use as a distraction. So I was extra family time this weekend. You know, I mean, listen, people who are being honest with themselves can admit it.

It's great until it isn't right. Like it's just it's a little bit too much. One of my favorite things on the first weekend without football is being introduced to a new football like I did not know existed. And I learned about fan-controlled football that happened this weekend. It's like Arena Ball, meet XFL, meet social media. And it happened this weekend. And I did not know it existed. So there is some football to be watched if you would like to do that. But if I told my wife, Gabe, hey Hey hun, we've watched football all season.

We've sacrificed a lot of time with the kids for football. You know what? I'm going to watch fan controlled football. Divorce papers would show up the next day. And so, yeah, it's, and you're like the one part of the country that has no bad weather either. So you got to at least get outside. I was inside for the entire weekend. Yeah. We're in Southern California. So we were outside while everyone else is freezing cold. Well, yeah, we can't piss our wives off.

This is a crucial time of year to get it right. So we get September, October, November, all that every Sunday to ourselves and Saturdays too. It's also the time of year where I think, honestly, people in our profession, this is like Super Bowl, right? This is when you don't have a game to react to. There aren't highlights to talk about. You know, there isn't a million natural storylines. This is when you got to get paid to make some shit up. All right. There's no other way to say it. The takes get

hottest right now, including from people we love. I want to credit, I'm not making fun of him, I want to credit our friend Nick Wright for the craziest trade proposal I've seen since like George on Seinfeld. He had a 14th trade that was Deshaun Watson ended up with the Niners. Jimmy G, I think, was in Seattle.

Sam Darnold was in Houston with a whole bunch of picks. Russell Wilson was on my Jets. It was a phenomenal idea. It. Russell Wilson was on my jets. It was a phenomenal idea. It was too much to even unpack here. Between that and all the other Dak and everybody else BS right now, I just wanted to get your smarter take on Carson Wentz.

I think that's all we can handle right now. Let's talk Carson Wentz and what it would take to get him. I haven't even seen a deal that would include a first rounder yet, but I'm seeing packages with, you know, Zach Ertz. I mean, he's all over the map. What's going on with Carson Wentz? Our job is quote unquote, I'll say easier, right? Between the time of Labor Day weekend till basically President's Day weekend, right?

Till Super Bowls, all Super Bowl coverage is over. Now we make our money from February, from right now, until September starts. And this is where it starts. Trade season, free agency, draft. We're going to get some draft topics as well. So let's start with this one. So look, I've said this for a while now.

I'm not sure Deshaun Watson gets traded. They don't have to trade him. They don't need to trade him. He's under contract. And there's a very realistic chance. They just say, hey, man, you're under contract. If you show up, great. We have Pep Hamilton here. We have David Coley.

I think you'll work well with them. Or don't show up and just skip a year of your career. I mean, like that's what they could do. I think they're leaning toward that. The other parts of the trade are very fascinating. Russell Wilson, we'll talk about him not going anywhere. But Carson Wentz is going somewhere right he's going somewhere we've seen now the Colts have been reported to offer two second round draft picks I've been told that the Colts are going to be very weary to use that number one the first round draft I say not number one but the

first round draft pick on Carson Wentz because they need a left tackle like they need some players with that pick wide receiver, left tackle, left tackle, especially in this draft is a good way to go. And trading for creating that number, you know, the 21st ish pair keeps it number one,

the first round pick 21st. I think it's 21st for Carson Wentz. Not, I don't think Chris Ballard wants to go there, but two second round pick. Sure. Cause they can address quarterback and left tackle in the same draft. They would love to do that, obviously. So, can he be

fixed, man? Have we ever seen a quarterback in our lifetime take a dive like this so quickly? I mean, 2017, he was going to win the MVP, tears the ACL, Nick Foles comes in, wins the Super Bowl. Next year, Wentz comes back, gets hurt again, Foles comes

in. The following year, 2019, Wentz played the whole year, getting hurt in the playoffs, and this year just fell off a cliff. The question becomes, can Frank Reich in Indy fix him? Well, Gabe, the question is, what does fix mean in the situation? Because you're not going to ever get 2017 Wentz, in my opinion. That was a year, if you look at the numbers, and Pro Football Focus done a great job talking about this, some of those were numbers that are hard to be sustainable throughout a career.

His red zone success, his success against pressure, his third down success, those were very high and unlikely to be replicated throughout his career. Those numbers are volatile, right? Every year they might be different. And so to say, hey, this guy's good because he does these things well, well, those three things change year in and year out. You have to find other things he does well that replicate more year over year.

He wasn't as good in those categories as he was in the ones I just mentioned. So if you can get, let's say, a mixture of like 2017 and like 2019 Wentz, sure. And the question becomes, obviously, can you do that, right? Can Frank Wright do that? So let's talk about if he can. So offensive line, right? If they address left tackle, they're set, okay? Better offensive line than the Eagles have.

Run game, better than the Eagles have. Wide receivers and tight end. Zach Ertz is better than anything the Colts have at tight end. But wide receivers, probably equal. I mean, T.Y. Hilton is better than anyone he'sts have at tight end. But wide receivers, probably equal. I mean, T.Y. Hilton is better than anyone he's had, I think, in Philly. They added a wide receiver in the second rounder in free agency. Like, go get Alan Robinson if you're in Carson Wentz.

So the pieces are there to be better. The question is Frank Reich. So people have said that he's the reason why the Eagles offense was good in 2017 with Doug Peterson. Maybe. But Doug Peterson called the plays. So I don't know if I've ever seen a situation where the guy who didn't call the plays got the credit for the offense being great. Have we seen that before? The guy who doesn't call the plays gets credit for the offense being great. But Frank Wright can call plays.

We saw that last year with Rivers. The question is, is Carson Wentz's confidence? That's my biggest question. Obviously, he waned. And the worry I have is that it waned for the wrong reasons, which is basically like Nick Foles pushed him, right? That Nick Foles, that whole thing bothered him. I heard Wentz has trouble connecting to teammates in the locker room,

which is a concern as well. Just kind of his personality doesn't really rub everyone the right way. You know, these, and look, I know there are anonymous shots at him. They keep happening. If you read everything about what's happening in Philly, they just kind of keep happening, Gabe. And eventually, we know this, right? Kind of the rumors become real life, right?

That really is what real life is. So, man, I don't, two second round picks, I think, is okay for Wentz, but I don't ever believe he'll get back to 2017. That's a long way to say no. Even if everything is set up for him to do it, I just think mentally he's not there. Okay.

So is throwing Zach Ertz, who they set a record for most completions to tight ends just a few years ago, is throwing him in the mix maybe make it something somebody wants to try? It's like his best friend, a great weapon, two guys who have proven they can win. Does that change the dynamics at all?

Because I've seen those earlier. It's the Gronk and Wentz thing, right? I mean, Gronk and Brinkley, right? The difference, obviously, is they've won shit with Carson Wentz. He's not in a playoff game, right? Yeah, well, listen, you don't have to tell me. I never really bought Carson Wentz, period. So I'm not asking you these questions because i think he makes a lot of sense i also would argue i don't know i mean didn't jalen hertz get picked in the second round so

and aren't they choosing jalen hertz over carson wentz and so isn't a second round pick kind of valuable i think there's a chance that um eagles might draft a quarterback in this draft. So the question is, Gabe, is, so if you're the Colts, okay, and here's your options. Let's say you trade the two second-round picks, obviously one this year and maybe one next year for Carson Wentz. Let's say you can improve Carson Wentz. Is that the better option than Jameis Winston, than trying to overdraft someone in the draft?

Maybe you get a Mac Jones or Kyle Trask. You know, do you trade for Marcus Mariota on the Raiders? Do you roll with Jacoby Brissett? Do you trade for Sam Darnold, Jimmy G? Like, so what are, there might be no better option. Carson Wentz provides the best upside of all those guys. If Frank Reich believes he can get the most out of Carson Wentz, which of course he does.

Now, here's the thing about draft slot. It's a very important topic. It's not an absolute, right? Nothing's ever an absolute. Josh Rosen, everyone will throw back in my face about this, but this is the truth. If you are drafted high in the draft, and I say this mostly as a petty seventh-round draft pick

because this is a little personal here, you will get more chances than anyone else. If this was a quarterback drafted in the 6th or 7th round that had early success in his career and then faded the next couple of years, be out of the NFL or would be a backup. But people think, hey, Carson Wentz drafted second overall, had a great second year.

We can find ways to blame Doug Peterson or the offensive line or the lack of weapons or the drops or the miscommunications. We can fix him. He was a second pick overall for a reason. He's so talented. We see that all the time everywhere, right? Offensive linemen, which is what I love, right?

Offensive linemen drafted in the same year as me that were bums got to play longer than they would have if they were in my shoes, the seventh round draft pick. It's the way it always is going to be. And so the Colts think, hey, we can fix Carson Wentz. Again, if this was a seventh round draft pick who just started fast in his career and then petered out, no one would think he's a reclamation project. But because of where Wentz was drafted, people think, hey, this guy can do it. He can still do it.

He can still do it. He's so talented. He is very talented. But I think mentally, man, I just, the things I've heard out of Philly, I'm just concerned mentally the first bad thing that happens in Indy is going to just make him crumble.

Yeah. And by the way, you know, you mentioned some other big names and I don't want to scatter us too much, but I'm going to mention because Dak came up

and I want to talk about something I just heard Emmanuel Acho mention, your buddy came up, and I want to talk about something I just heard Emmanuel Acho mention, your buddy Acho. Usually in recent years, the way that the contracts work in the NFL, teams that make the Super Bowl have been doing it with quarterbacks towards the end of their rookie contract, because it's team favorable, right?

Like, you can build a very good team around a guy who hasn't yet been paid like an elite quarterback. Once you start paying your quarterback, Carson Wentz, money, it becomes hard to have all the other pieces you need to be a Super Bowl team. And so I guess I'm wondering why not just say, yeah, screw it. Let's see if we can draft the quarterback who can get us there in a few years in Indy instead of bringing in a guy, whether or not Frank Reich thinks he can fix him or not. Like, isn't a second round quarterback,

a better odds play anyway, just in terms of roster. I mean, so look at franchise quarterbacks, the NFL right now that are not kind of top second round or first round draft pick. So you look at Dak, obviously Russell Wilson,

Tom Brady cousins and car. So you look at Dak, obviously, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Cousins, and Carr. Because Carr was like end of second round, I think, around there. It's hard to find guys that aren't drafted in the first round or top of second round. I mean, you look at the Colts, what, pick 40, 50-ish, right? Like 50-ish about is where they're picking the second round without having to look it up. I mean, who are you taking there, right? So at the first, you have obviously Trevor Lawrence, and you have Zach Wilson, and you have Justin Fields, Trey Lance, and then you have a combination of Kyle Trask,

Mack Jones. Who are you taking at 50? So you basically have to just look. So the thing about the draft, about quarterbacks, is you've got to look into someone who's drafted after the first round, essentially, right? The Cowboys drafted Dak to replace Romo. Romo got hurt, and Dak got to play. Russell Wilson, they sent Matt Flynn.

Matt Flynn was supposed to be the starter. Russell Wilson ended up being the guy. Tom Brady, obviously, we know his story as well. Cousins was drafted the year that RG3 was drafted. He was never supposed to play. RG3 got hurt, cousins played so the idea of finding your second round draft pick in the 50s who is your franchise quarterback is very tough to do they have to almost get lucky well you know carson wentz at least is functional like if you can just get him to be a little bit better right he's better than i think a second round draft pick all right but i mean they have the the most functional guy there is in the last 10 years and jacoby brissett who's just like

ben everyone's backup and can win when he starts i don't know why but they have a super bowl kind of caliber roster and he's not the one you super bowl like the the the question becomes, ultimately, is can you get the team, or can you get Carson Wentz good enough to win you a Super Bowl? That's the question. Because, again, there should be Buffalo in the playoff game. We understand that. They were better than Buffalo on that day. So at least they're a divisional-round team.

I think a lot of people right now look at them in the AFC and think, hey, they might be the most complete team, offense and defense, if they get the right quarterback. Obviously a big disclaimer there, right? So if you look around the NFL, which guy has the most upside they could possibly get? Some would argue Sam Darnold. I know you don't believe that. A lot of people believe that Sam Darnold's salvageable because of the Adam Gates situation. But it is Carson Wentz.

He's the one who has the most upside, unless someone's willing to trade someone that we're unaware of. I mean, maybe Seattle, and I don't think this is the case at all, maybe they're willing to partner with Russell Wilson. I doubt it. But there's no one else out there who provides the upside that Carson Wentz does. Well, I'm glad you brought up Russell because, you know, if you watch the shows that I watch before talking to you, you would get the impression that he's unhappy,

that he is on the trade block, that maybe his time in Seattle is over. A number of different takes that all seem very silly to me, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the idea that maybe Russell Wilson or Russell Wilson's quote unquote camp think he should be more involved in helping build the team around him. This is becoming a trend among better quarterbacks. And that he hasn't been shown the same amount of respect he thinks he should be. Another trend that seems to keep coming up with quarterbacks. Do you think there's any chance Russell Wilson ends up on a pretty good team to make it the best team in football because he is good enough right

like he would be he's not carson wentz if russell wilson goes to the colts they immediately leap up the list they're right there with the chiefs and bucks um yeah it's a good question so russell was trying to flex his power to get you know more offensive linemen or more weapons or a different offense which look everyone's like how's an offensive lineman how do you feel i'm calling his offensive line i don't care whatever i mean like it's not that big of a deal i mean it is offensive line um you know the guys know they're good no they're good the guys aren't no they're not very good right but part of it too is russell wilson takes a ton of sacks himself that are not on the offensive line which he doesn't

seem to realize in this situation um He's not going anywhere unless Seattle, and look, Seattle wants to say, hey, Houston, do you want Russell Wilson? We'll take Deshaun Watson. That would be an upgrade for Seattle. I think Seattle would want to do that. Younger, same contract, have him much longer. He'd be so rejuvenated to play with Pete Carroll

than he would down in, now obviously I think Russell Wilson has a no trade clause as well, so he's not going to Houston. I don't think no one's trading him. Russell Wilson's just flexing his power, the power that he has. And the one thing that I do not understand why people just were so pro-player on, oh, I agree, is the idea that he should be allowed to help with personnel decisions.

What? Why do I need him to say is he doing is he watching draft prospects is he watching the rest of the nfl outside the nfc like is he watching the the best pass rusher in the afc every week like what are you talking about guys why you know people were like oh he makes so much money the other other corporations well this is not other corporations it's nfl this is different than anything else in no other in no other situation would the employee make seven times what the president makes of the organization right like it's not the way it works then it feels different and i understand this concept though i'll give wilson a little bit of a of a bump here so let's say that

like russell wilson goes to john Schneider, the GM, and says, hey man, can you like keep me in the loop on who we might sign as wide receiver? And they call him and say, hey, we have Allen Robinson here. We have Juju. Who do you want? And Wilson's like, oh, I like Allen Robinson. Okay, fine. You ask his input. Maybe you go with Robinson. Maybe you don't. That's different than, I think, people assuming he's like scouting players. Now, if you want to give Russell Wilson that bit of love and, you know, call him, sure. Go ahead. But again, you might already have chosen Allen Robinson in your mind, and you just made Russell Wilson feel like you helped. The same as I told you before, like same as the wedding planning with my wife.

She chose everything. I just pretended that I was helping her, and it made her feel good. That's the situation here feel good um that's the situation here and so that's maybe what he's talking about but again it's not really our job we're players we're not personnel guys that's their job to do uh wilson has to focus on his play and being the best he can be yeah also i mean as soon as you start making that the standard that that's what a great quarterback gets to do like then they're going to be upset when they get asked hey we're getting everyone's opinion we're going to crunch

the numbers we want to hear everyone's opinion you're the quarterback of the team so who do you think we should sign and then they don't go with whoever he said then that's going to be the thing he's you know complaining about or we're hearing rumbling from his camp. Right? So there's no win in this unless you just do what the guy says the way the Bucs did with Tom Brady. It isn't going to get any better. Yeah, but think about this, though. The Bucs are a different situation because the Bucs already had Mike Evans and Chris Godwin.

Bring Antonio Brown in, did no harm for their team. They already had Cameron Bray. Bringing Gronkowski, an all-time great tight end, easy decision. Bringing in Leonard Fournette. They already had Ronald Jones. They just brought Fournette in, and there was a story that Fournette was almost cut like in week 15. So that's different than Tom saying, hey, I want Allen Robinson on my team.

And they're like, oh, damn, we have Mike Evans, and we can't really get everyone under contract. Those are easy suggestions um this feels more like you like he wants more control and just like hey can i bring my buddies here yeah well okay so let's go let's use it as a segue to another big name and some messy situations where egos are involved um jj watt so we know that he's out in Houston. I didn't see that one coming. When everyone was saying how horrible Houston was, I didn't think that J.J. Watt was going to be one of the people who felt that way, considering sort of the legend he's

built up for himself in that town. But so he's out. Obviously, the rumors immediately are very simplistically come down to, well, he's going to go play in Pittsburgh with his brother, because I guess people think that makes sense. Or he's going to go play with Green Bay because he's from Wisconsin, because that makes sense to people. My brain went to, he's going to go to Tampa Bay and play with Tom Brady to make the most fucking unwatchable nightmare of my life, to have them together down there.

But that probably won't happen. So you're smart. You make sense of this to me. I don't know why JJ Watt is still a thing period, but assuming people think he's still great, where does he end up? Because he's hard to fit under, under the cap. He's hard to mesh with a lot of defenses.

It doesn't, it doesn't just sign him and it's a go. So where's that going to work out? So people have said, obviously his two brothers are in pittsburgh right that makes yeah oh wow both his brothers oh wow yeah um his wife i believe plays in chicago for their soccer team so people said hey the bears might be a suggestion and then green bay because he's from wisconsin right um the one team on the list i haven't seen is the chiefs i

do not know why people do not put odds on him signing with the Chiefs. I don't know why that would be a situation he wouldn't want to go to. At this point in his career, he can still play. You put him down at three technique. You move him away from defensive end. And you say, hey, man, you're going to rush the passer, second and third down at three technique, inside, over the guard. I think he can still do it at a high level.

So he's going to choose a place he thinks he can win a championship. And you look around the NFL, the Chiefs are the favorite to win next year. I think it'll be tough to get back to the fourth AFC Championship game in a row. But you look at what he wants to be. Does he want to go to Pittsburgh, where they already have Cam Hayward, Stephon Tuitt, and his brother? Not really a spot for him there. Green Bay will be a spot.

Him and Kenny Clark, you could definitely go to Green Bay. It would definitely make them better. Kansas City, obviously, has Chris Jones. You add J.J. Watt, and you have Frank Clark there as well. Good spot for him to go. You want a team with Chicago Bears. The Browns was a

suggestion people had. That wouldn't be bad. You have Miles Garrett, obviously, there, and you have Sheldon Richardson and J.J. Watt. So those are good options for him to go. He has to determine where the best place is for him to win a championship. He's made his money. He's a Hall of Famer.

He's had one of the great NFL teams of all time. He can pretty much choose his spot if money's not the problem. Well, let me ask you though, because money is always complicated and it isn't just like, is he willing to take a discount or not? You're good at breaking this down

in like actual terms can he just say like screw it i don't care and go sign for whatever because he wants to play with his brothers like isn't collectively bargained like salary ranges and like i mean aren't there complications to something like that well no he could just sign for league minimum and play for whatever that is in his 10th year and probably million dollars he could just sign for the league minimum and play for whatever that is in his 10th year and probably a million dollars. He could just do that. Yeah. But his agent would be pretty pissed. Yeah.

Like, you know, and the NFLPA would probably be upset because that sets a precedent for older players taking far less money when he's worth, you know, maybe $12, $14 million a year. You know, our team's running out to pay him the same salary? No, that he's been making. But he's easily going to get probably $10 million a year. Nick's saying he earned $7 million off the field. Man, look, so does Tom Brady. He's still making $25 million a year. I just think at some point, ego is part of this as well.

As rich as people are, they stay rich because they make a lot of money still. And for Watt to turn down, let's say he signs a one-year deal for a million dollars over like a two-year deal for 25. I mean, it's a lot, it's a big difference, $24 million, it's a big difference. So I don't think he can sign for the minimum, but I mean, in theory he can, Gabe. Yes. Okay. All right. Well, thanks for clarifying. So then let me go back to what you just brought up. Cause that's not something I've seen rumored. And I'm guessing you're not telling this cause you have some ties to the chiefs.

I'm guessing you're just telling us this cause you, you know, follow stuff along. You honestly think that Kansas city might be a place for him to fit in. Like they have the money they would spend on a guy like him. I don't see him fitting in with that defense, but that's cause I don't know anything. anything oh he'd be great in that defense but um i mean there's obviously no my brother's not telling me what the chiefs are doing plus he has no idea anyways um no i mean look at look they've added they added to run matthew that

12 sucks last year i mean they've they add they add veterans when they can. And it's a place to go win. People are playing for Andy Reid. I'm just surprised. I'm more surprised than anything else that he wasn't even on the initial odds list that came out for where he might go. Yeah. He wasn't on the list. One team I heard people talking about today, it's interesting.

The Tennessee Titans. Mike Vrabel, who was the DC in Houston, who was with J.J. Watt during his best years. I'm going to stick it to Houston as well. They need, they desperately need pass rushers in Tennessee. That could be a spot for him as well. Let me ask you this. So we were talking earlier about guys like Russell and Aaron Rogers, who might be a little unhappy with how half the team has performed, you know, cost them chances at rings.

Would, in your experience, would a quarterback who's grumbling or has his camp grumbling about weapons and the team around him be satisfied to find out we got a superstar pass rusher that doesn't really help anything that I do in my job, but does maybe make the team better? Like, could you shut up an Aaron Rodgers by signing a J.J. Watt? An Aaron Rodgers? Or a Russell Wilson? No.

No, right? No, because they want offensive weapons. Yeah, so just getting a better defense isn't necessarily going to please them. I mean, they'll be happy week 17. I mean, if you're looking at Aaron Rodgers specifically, like, the Packers defense has been poo for a while. I mean, he would be probably fired up to have him as a teammate,

but does it make his offense better? No. But it still is better than not having a defense yeah well obviously but if they're gonna they only have so much money they can spend so isn't a guy like rogers gonna see 10 million dollars or whatever amount you're putting on it spent on jj watt as 10 million dollars that wasn't spent on a lineman or another receiver or running back or whatever he thinks he needs? Interesting question. Yeah, I think he would probably just kind of be indifferent to it. By the way, interesting nugget came up earlier. I think it was Albert Breer mentioned this.

All of the first three touchdowns scored in the Super Bowl were scored by guys who signed with the Bucs after Tom Brady signed. That they were all the ring-chasing guys. And we talked about that a lot last week. Yeah, two of Gronk and Fournette, right? Oh, no, no, Antonio Brown. Gronk twice, Antonio Brown, yep. Yeah.

And then, yeah. So, like, insane. All those touchdowns went to guys who were like i'll play there and so it's interesting when you think about all these moves of like will there just be momentum of a few guys just all team up in one new place and could last question on this then we'll move to some more serious stuff could maybe a few of these guys bigger name guys who don't necessarily have an obvious home all kind of unite around one team to take them

over the top, right? So we talked about the dream team. Yeah, like the way that basically the Bucs did you know, like we've seen the Lakers try to do in the NBA. Yeah, I mean, I think again, it's a money thing like in the NBA, you know, even if you're like on the middle of exemption, you're still getting five million dollars

that to me feels like the issue here is the money situation. I can't see four or five veterans just being like, I'll make a million dollars this year. And look, winning Super Bowl is hard. Even if you team up, it doesn't mean you're going to win, which you've seen, obviously, with those kind of dream team-ish, those dream team Eagles teams in 2012. It's hard to do that in the NFL.

So you can't guarantee just five veterans going somewhere, taking far less and winning a championship. And does J.J. Watt, just speaking about his football play, not that we've gotten to see very much of it in the last few years, does his, what made him great in his prime, still work in a league that is so spread out, that as you have told us is so much about putting four or five guys wide, getting,

getting rid of the ball within three seconds or less. Like does having a really great and powerful pass rusher matter? If an Aaron Rogers can get the ball out in two and a half seconds. Yes. Especially up the middle. And we saw, you know, we saw in the Superbowl how important it was. And we saw as important, you know, Aaron Donald was out against the Packers.

We saw what happened there. So, yes, it still matters to have a pass rusher. Especially if you have two of them, you add him to Pittsburgh, you add him to Green Bay, you add him to Kansas City, you add him to all these places. They already have pass rushers. If it's like in Tennessee and he's the best guy they have, the teams will just double

him but other places i mentioned already have a really good um you know defensive tackle there where he would not have to um be the only option to rush to passer all right i'm gonna get out over my skis here a little bit and just use some terms i don't know how to use what if he wasn't in like a three-point stance what if they like stood him up yes yeah what could i think i don't i think a defensive end i would not i would not like him to play i think he'd be i would not sign him to play to play defensive end well like different type of player but like chris long someone you just spoke with yeah he's a defensive end yeah yes but late in his career wasn't he sort of playing a linebacker or a pass rusher linebacker position?

He was standing up, but he was still playing defensive end. I'm talking about like you put him down over the guard. That's not what Chris did. He was more – he even says like he kind of sacrificed a little bit of who he was to play in New England. He didn't like it. But you do it because you went to win a championship. But could JJ do something like that?

Again, I don't know the terms as well. No, people would probably sign him to just do what he's good at. Yeah. All right. Oh, so be on Instagram. Got it. Okay.

Sorry, troll. Had to take that. That's what people say to me all the time um all right let's let's shift gears a little bit that's all the silly part of the offseason uh and i think no one's getting hurt in any of this and we're all guessing and speculating and credit to nick wright for having the most fun with all that stuff um we'll keep talking about it this one's a little bit more serious um so i think most people by now if they're listening to this show pay close attention attention to the league. They know that Urban Meyer was hired in Jacksonville and then he hired an assistant coach from Iowa named Chris Doyle, who had been accused of bullying and belittling

his players and even using some racist slurs. So after Urban made the choice and offered him the job, he took it and then he almost immediately resigned because the blowback was so bad against him and against Urban that I think everyone decided it was not a good hire. But he'd already been offered the job and taken it. It was weird. Keep in mind, Urban Meyer is on like his third chance, really, you know, so he's out of Florida, out of Ohio State, and now he's got Jacksonville, but he's still making these sort of puzzling leadership choices. I'm curious if you think Urban Meyer has sort of learned from the past, or is he just one of these guys who sort of says,

there's a reason people hire me. I know how to win. I'm going to do it my way, and the people who don't like that can shove off. What's going on there? Well, he just tried to do it do his own way and people told him to shove off so um i mean like that's the problem right is is this is the nfl now and um you know the chris doyle thing is it depends on who you talk to uh it's kind of maybe an old school new new school type of attitude he's very much feels like an old school type of coach who is gonna say

some inappropriate things uh and some of us i hate saying back in the day i'm only 34 years old we heard most of it we just brushed it off some people now don't like it right but the thing is the players that are playing now don't like it so urban meyer has to know that right like that's the thing if this was 15 years ago maybe his locker room says all right fine this guy says crazy shit we don't like it we suck it up we deal with it which is honestly how a lot of us dealt with in the past they don't kids don't do that anymore now so urban you can't hire this guy right like that's the problem is that he no no perception of what's around him no perception of the locker room no perception

it's the nfl man it's not ohio They're going to call you out on your shit. The media called him out on it. He had no good answer. Right? Well, we vetted him. How'd you vet him? I don't know. And then they put out a statement.

Did you see the first statement they put out? It did not have anyone's name on it. And then they had to revise it seven hours later to put Trent Baalke, the GM, and Urban Meyer's name on the statement that was sent out. So, again, this is urban thinking you can control everything because in college you control everything right it's him thinking it back you don't look at it for 20 years now right well what you say 20 years ago is not appropriate to say now right we get that right urban like that's the point and that's what people i think are saying

hey herbs you don't understand this man like it's not 20 years ago and you can't hire a coach your players aren't going to respect or a coach that that that you know they've been told hey guys i don't respect this guy and we're not gonna listen to him these are you know these are adults now right you're not gonna have chris doll's not gonna talk to you like that to a 37 year old left tackle right ain't gonna happen that way so i think that's what's happening again i i've i've had people talking about chris doyle who said it's it's he's you's rough around the edges and harmless. I've had other people tell me that is the other way.

I'm just telling you that, again, Urban should have known this was coming if you hired Chris Doyle. Yeah, that's why it's so puzzling. It's that it seemed like he knew. Again, this is a small college town, and Columbus is not small, but a small college town where he could just do whatever he wants and no one pushes back against him. Well, Dan Wetzel had a good column on this. I'm going to read just a chunk of his take here. He said, and this is in the middle of it.

He said, that's rah-rah hyperbole. It works on teenagers in speaking about Urban's way of handling things. It works on teenagers and desperate fans and boosters. And it's how Meyer's always operated. Throw some impossible to quantify statement out there and use it as both a reason for the madness and a cudgel against critics. If you disagree with Meyer, you must not want to win as much as he does. If you challenge him, you must not care as much as he does. Those are Dan's words. I thought it was an interesting way of putting it. It's like he always has an excuse for the bad judgment or bad decision or bad outcome,

which is, well, I mean, hey, listen, I just want to win. I guess you don't want to win. Like, this is what it takes to win, according to me. Therefore, you should be okay with it. And it's a strange set of logic in a brand new job, I would think. Well, Gabe, he learned his lesson though, right? You can't do that in the NFL now.

And maybe he thought he could. And there was pushback. And again, like there's something where I think Wetzel's point is basically this. And a lot of people said, you know, in college, Irving, again, can do whatever he wants, right? Chris Doyle says to him, hey, man, you know, I said these things, you know, they weren't meant in the way they were taken. You know, it's just, we're just dudes talking in the way. But Urban is like, cool, sounds good to me.

In college, you can hire that guy. Your players have no power. They have none whatsoever. The media is not going to get you to fire someone because, you know, they say mean words like that. You're insulated. The NFL, you're not. I don't know if a Jacksonville Jaguars player called Urban Meyer're insulated the NFL you're not I don't know if a Jacksonville Jaguars player called Urban Meyer was like yo we're not playing for this guy I don't know very possible but the media also pushed back which doesn't happen as vigorously

in college it does but not to the point where you can kind of get someone to to fire someone so that's he learned he learned, man. The players have control and you are responsible for your, for your actions in the NFL. Well, I think it's also interesting because we talked about coach Belichick and the possibility of him accepting some honor from president Trump a few weeks ago. And I was asking you if, you know, obviously he can do what he wants. He can, you know, believe whatever he wants to believe. But if he, if he does accept this honor, um, isn't he sort of sending a signal to his players who he knows disagree or, or don't view it. And isn't that the risk that you could lose the room in some way? And so here we have a coach who very different set of circumstances,

but is brand new and is basically saying, we're going to do things my way i don't really care how you feel about it and immediately gets slapped down and i that that to me was interesting belichick could probably get away with it because of his track record a brand new coach never having coached in the league before that seemed very odd to me i think again he um he is an urban just decided to ignore how his players would feel about it because he was cool with Chris Doyle. And again, like I mentioned earlier, Chris Doyle had said at the time in Iowa,

I believe I pulled up a statement here, he said that there have been statements made about my behavior that are not true, do not claim to be perfect, I've made mistakes, learned lessons, no time have I crossed the line of unethical behavior, do not make racist comments i don't tolerate people who do the thing about it though is that sometimes it doesn't matter what you think it matters what the person on the receiving end thinks right and so you might think as the coach hey i'm saying something and i'm a hard ass to everyone which again i've been told he is it doesn't matter who you are but

someone might take that the wrong way, man. Yeah. Listen, they're your players. You're the ones you're coaching. If you can't motivate them because of your words, then how can you coach on the Jacksonville Jaguars? Like that's the problem, right? Is that again, like Urban just didn't think about how it would be received what he said.

And that's the problem with with urban in this situation yeah by the way i think i read that this guy doyle was making about a million dollars a year as a strength he's making a lot of money he's one of the better he's really good his job but i mean obviously the words yeah but i mean a strength and conditioning coach it's at a so interesting like 10 school is making a million dollars a year. It's so interesting, man. I've seen some of his comments that he's made. Coaches used to say this shit all the time back in the day.

I don't remember. We didn't have a platform to say we were. It pissed people off. Unfortunately, I had to just deal with it. That's what I mean with the old school, new school thing. I see some of the comments like you just you just like i don't know there was no recourse and now obviously you know players can be more public and you see like you go to some tweets and stuff about this um and uh but it's interesting because um people still credit him for helping them get to the NFL. Like he's really good at his job. I think

he's just an ass. Like, does that make sense? Yeah, no, of course. There's a thousand stories. You know, we've all had people in our lives who we begrudgingly admit as much as we fought with them and hated them. They're, they're part of how we got to wherever we got i've had bosses who were total a-holes to me but they were right and if i hadn't learned the lessons they were teaching i wouldn't have progressed to the next job you know that that happens but that doesn't mean that when you're brand new to the job that you should start out that way especially because i would think that the whole job for urban meyer is going to be to shift the culture into the direction of a pro player environment where when you do get some superstars, when you do start to have some success, it actually lasts. The issue in Jacksonville from a football perspective has been as soon as a guy gets any good there, he wants out because there's no belief that they could ever possibly win.

So to come in and do something that is immediately being perceived as anti-player before you've even like shook hands with anyone that was the crazy part to me obviously like all the other things again it's not smart of him yeah all right well i mean he knows something about coaching and drawing up x's and o's and he's been certainly riding some success with tim tebow and a few other guys for a lot of years. So maybe he'll figure it out. But this was a weird one. Let's move the line, shall we? Let's do it.

All right. Take a quick break. We'll come back with our over-under game. This episode is brought to you by HP. Whenever you do your best thinking, the HP Spectre x360 is ready when inspiration strikes. The HP Spectre x360 is ready when inspiration strikes. With power saved for battery life and focus mode to multitask, you can do your best thinking whenever and wherever it happens.

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Nothing real to bet on these days, so I've got some fake bets for you. We talked about QBs earlier. This one may be tough because there's a lot of dominoes that need to fall to figure it out. How many backup quarterbacks from last year will have starting spots next year over-under 2.5? And I can give you names if you need them. Well, I see the names on the list. Um, you consider when to backup?

Uh, well, you know, by the end of the year, it seemed like he was. So yeah, let's put them in that category. I would say I go,

I guess this would be under, right? So under two and a half. So I think only one or two, um, when it's, we'll start somewhere. Mariota's still under contract.

He has to be traded from Vegas. That's the problem. Winston. Well, no, he could be... The starter could be traded, and he could become the starter. Oh, fair enough. If they trade Derek Carr. Fair enough.

I still think that... I just can't see why these guys started. Like, teams will just draft quarterbacks. They need them. Okay. So, Wentz will get a starting job back somewhere. Andy Dalton, we sort of danced around Dak earlier. I think we're going to have to talk about him all offseason,

so we saved the time today. But is Andy Dalton a starter somewhere next year? I'm thinking of where. I mean, maybe New England, somewhere like that, I guess. I mean, maybe if someone strikes out at the draft, they'll sign one of these guys to be a starter. But it's hard to predict that now. Well, I think we'll have to watch the Jets too.

If they do somehow move some picks or they move Sam Darnold somehow somehow i could see them doing a year or two with a guy like andy dalton until they get the quarterback they love it's possible yeah yeah um i still think we're gonna all have to watch closely on what happens in dc i think they're a quarterback away from everyone going oh yeah they're obviously great yeah i'm i am um i'm curious what they're gonna tyler hannock He's not the guy we talked about that last week. He's not the guy, but I'm curious what they're going to do though. Yeah. I mean, are they, aren't they Tom Brady away from being what the bucks were this year, given that, you know, they had no physically healthy quarterbacks last year and a defense that everyone was in love with.

Obviously they were only about a 500 team, but aren't they a Tom Brady away from being like a 10 win team who can roll through the post season? Need a better offensive line, but yeah, they're closer than people think. I believe. All right. Well, Tom Brady is a good segue. I want to know tears shed by the family of the makers of the lombardi trophy uh this week over under one ounce worth of salty tears from that family if you don't know the

story i can share it with you but i think most people listening do all right so this lady lady no one feels sorry for you lady lady no one feels sorry for you um there's one of those comments where you just keep to yourself no one cares tom brady was transporting the lombardi from boat a to boat b from point a to point b that's all i was doing we've seen people take you know beer luges used it for beer luge we saw charles because of that last year we saw gronk use it to like hit something and dent it no no nothing no talk whatsoever but this disrespected your dad tom bernie has seven of these now he loses one he'll get another one but come on lady come on he's on originals it's not the stanley, well, obviously they party with it. But, like, it's one piece.

This is, they make new ones every year. Yeah. Yeah, she was offended that her family helped create the first one. And Tom Brady, by throwing it across the Tampa Bay to some teammates, was disrespecting that craft. I want to say a different thing, though. So I shed no tears for her um even if they shed lots i don't think it was the real one i don't think first of all i don't think tom brady was that drunk i think that was fake i don't think his social media yeah i don't

think his social media person uh helped him when he started like fake drunk tweeting for him um to try to like sell the relatable guy thing and i don't think that that was a real Lombardi trophy. I think that that was like a WWE thing where they brought a fake one in just to do that. It's possible. It's only, like I said, it's only seven pounds in hollow.

Yeah. But I mean, I don't think Tom Brady would have risked somebody dropping it into the water. He probably had confidence he could throw it, but it could have easily bobbled and dropped. So I think it was fake. You want to hear more about that, but go listen to our last episode.

Ryan Jensen, the Buck Center, talks about that a lot too. Yeah, I think people are talking way too much about it. Do you think Tom Brady was fake drunk? I want to talk about that instead. No, well, I'm sure he was a little drunk because these days he doesn't drink or have caffeine so maybe like you know two zimas and he was hammered that's possible i'm just saying he didn't tweet the thing that everyone fell in love with that tweet about avocado tequila

that was not him okay there's no chance in the world that Tom Brady drunk tweets. Doesn't happen. No, no, no. I think most of the time his team tweets for him. Yes. I credit his social media team. But that means that a sober person tweeted as though they were him drunk. With the typos. That's what I expected, yeah.

But that's so ridiculous. Ah, it's his social media team. But Jeff, you can have a social media team if you're a multi-millionaire superstar with a lot to lose. I think the joke was that it clearly wasn't him who did it. You think in that joke, the tweet that was written like it was a drunk tweet,

that they're saying, we know, you know, this isn't actually Tom tweeting? I think everyone, think maybe i'm not but everyone should assume tom is not doing any of that tweeting i think average people who don't spend their day on twitter like you and i do or don't work on brands on twitter like i do would assume that tom brady tweets for himself well let you guys know tom Tom Brady doesn't tweet for himself okay but I thought the idea that there's somebody tweeting for him

but mimicking being drunk because he has seemed kind of drunk all day was like six layers into 2021 life then I just couldn't take it that's all

you can't take anything Tom Brady does that's probably also fair alright I want to know scouts and GMs, Trevor Lawrence impressed even more with all the dimes he threw at his pro day. Over-under.5. I'll go through this one quickly because the last over-under

we're going to talk about for just a quick second. So I want to make sure some time for this one. Everyone's sending scouts besides the Jacksonville. So stupid. My favorite one of the day was the hat. He like, he made these three movements that were just not football movements at all. And then took three hitches and threw about 80 yards.

Like why even have a move all that time? If you're going to give him a great one way to, to take off with, he looked good. He's the number one pick. End of story. So it doesn't matter what he does in pro days. And he's thrown in shorts to his favorite receivers who aren't being

covered. So the throws don't matter right uh correct it's just a matter of like did he look the part and this all scripted too it's scripted beforehand like he knows what he's doing yeah so you don't think it's a little weird i heard it's gonna be five or six months of rehab to his non throwing shoulder and that i think i think it was Coach Meyer basically said, hey, get the thing done so you're ready for camp. But that still seems like a whole lot of offseason in rehab and getting back to health. That's not a worry?

I'm not for his career, but if you expect him to play week one, maybe. But for career, no. His non-throwing shoulder is 22 years old. He'll be fine. week one maybe but for career no it's a non-throwing shoulder he's 22 years old it'll be fine oh well i assume trevor lawrence is being drafted to be out there week one the question is does the question i have for him is will he keep the long hair in the nfl yeah i think he'd look weird without it i think he's i think i wonder i wonder if like brands will be like buddy you gotta cut your hair dude no no i don't think so i think you would look

really strange without the long hair well of course but like i'm just curious if you know what doesn't he but i mean what would you that's like his thing right like what how could you get i thought his thing was how good he is but maybe his long hair is his thing i think that's kind of still his his main okay all right well mean, my thing is also my face. I get it. It makes sense. All right. Here's a guy.

I don't know what he looks like. He could be standing right next to me right now. I would have no idea it was him. I want to know the spots that QB Zach Wilson falls in the draft because he wasn't named captain at BYU over under.5. You don't know what he looks like. No clue. Zero idea.

Right now. I don't even know if he's black or white. I don't know anything about the guy. Go right now and look up Zach Wilson on Google. I'm going to watch you do it. Because you're going to be in awe. He looks like he's... I'm not even going to ruin it for you.

You'll be like, oh my God, I cannot believe that Zach Wilson. It's incredible. BYU kid, obviously, was not a captain, was on the leadership council at BYU. It made a huge stir this week. It was the Bo Callahan scene from draft day. He looks like a junior in high school who is the captain of a lacrosse team at a prep school.

Yes. Yes. He has an extremely punchable face. I feel very safe saying that. Also very fair. Yeah, he looks nothing like you think. This story is so stupid. This officially kicked off draft season

with this tweet about how he wasn't like the captain. So, yeah, it's just so stupid. He's not going to draft stupid he's not gonna draft he's not gonna drop at all so i mean one of the guys who covers the jets for years was the one i saw who shared that is that a concern i want to give some merit he's not just being a troll but the thing about is he has a scene on his jersey though so i'm kind of confused like he wasn't voted captain by his teammates but the coach made him a captain. Like, I don't really. I think it's just so stupid.

Okay, but we just talked about. I'm going to try to make a serious point here. I know you're saying it doesn't matter. Let me just make one attempt. Carson Wentz is seemingly not beloved by his teammates. There's something off in the locker room with Carson Wentz the leader of the Eagles if this guy doesn't even have the obvious like leadership qualities in college where he's clearly the best player on the team like if he's not voted the captain by those guys how do we know he'll ever win anyone over so the So the real take on this is it is kind of interesting that they chose captains and your stud quarterback was not chosen to be captain. It's a little, it's odd.

I can't really recall a situation where that wasn't the case. He was on the advisory committee, our leadership council, which is different. Coaches choose that. But I think they, I know people think it's going to be stupid. It's literally a scene from draft day, the birthday party thing and the captainship.

They're going to call and ask why. Scouts will, to BYU. It could mean absolutely nothing whatsoever but look most time like every team i've been on when we vote for captain just default quarterback like he's your guy you vote him captain so it is a little bit interesting that he wasn't that uh this is not meant to take us to some weird conversation about religion but do we know if he's mormon i i think he is i don't know i mean i i feel like most players there right most are so what if he isn't and maybe they were just like no like mormon guys are sticking together we're

voting for a mormon guy uh i saw an article over here that they called him uh mormon manziel so i feel like he's uh he is mormon all right well mormon manziel mormon manziel is by the way a nickname that will not stick but it is a great nickname um let's switch to mormon manziel i i could feel i could feel like if he you know people compared him to like pat mahomes so you get like a mormon mahomes mormon mahomes might hey i think you'd probably prefer that right uh let's see which way his career goes uh people can come up with their own segue here one exists i'm not smart enough to make it let's talk tim tebow um religion the segue yeah there's the quarterbacks with great college success and some religion in their background that's their

segue uh tim tebow major league at bats this season over under 0.5 come on. He's only 33. He's been invited to the Major League Spring Roster. He's only 33 hit 163 two years ago in AAA. Only 33. The Mets bringing back their highest prospect in the system. So I was talking about this on Twitter with people. And people were like, whoa, he's selling jerseys. Who is buying a Tim Tebow jersey in 2021 that doesn't already have one? You're going to buy another one?

I've only got two. I'm ready to buy a third. I know. You sent a video on Super Bowl Sunday of you in a Tebow jersey. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's a Jets jersey. I have a Mets t-shirt.

I could go get a Mets jersey with Tebow on it. But you could. You're not. The question becomes, like, how many people are still going to see him as an attraction? I don't think many. So bringing him to camp is pointless. But they're doing it for the attention.

And we're giving it to them right now on this podcast. Maybe they're doing it because Tim Tebow is an exceptional leader with a great story. And camps oftentimes bring in guys with great stories. And, you know, can encourage uh and motivate other players story like refusing to play another position in the nfl what's this what's his story i think his story is never giving up on his dream and fighting through the hard times of being a minor leaguer to try to make a major league roster you know if this was anyone else not named tim tebow who wanted to play in the major leagues fighting for your dream would never happen because they won't get you in the

door. So we at least acknowledge that he got in the door because of his name. Like he, his stats would not warrant a spring training invite. So, so playing your dreams only works when you have his name and he has money to be able to do this. Like in just start training for baseball for six months while also keeping your

espn job and making sure that doesn't doesn't conflict at all with your minor league job which seems kind of odd if it's your dream wouldn't you just say hey man i'm gonna stop my espn job for a little bit focus all on baseball but no no no i'm still gonna do that job when i can well over the baseball job well you need a source of revenue when you don't. He's made plenty of money. When you donate most of your money to important causes and charities worldwide, you do need to raise lots of money to help people. So that's probably why he still does ESPN jobs. I don't know, Tim.

But if I did, I would advise him to hire you to do his PR. Thank you. I would gladly take that job. I know. I know you would. I know. All right. So you're going to say no. would advise him to hire you to do his pr thank you i would gladly take that job i know i know i know uh all right so you're gonna say no we're not gonna see him you know what's funny about your tebow love is that like i've known you for three years now you're doing the podcast for i don't know two years i got two seasons now he doesn't strike me as a guy that befriends with you like i just don't like the thing is i don't see him as like a guy gabe would just like hang out with it is it is not my my type right like if larry david

comes up you're like yeah gabe would like larry david those guys they seem kind of similar tim obviously for a lot of reasons does not seem like my kind of guy but i have met him a few times i know and i find him to be delightful and sincere and hardworking and interesting. And I'm a believer. I don't know what to tell you. You should have come to the gym in 2013 and seen him act when cameras are off. So that might change your opinion on him. But nonetheless, that's where we are.

So Tim Tebow and Gabe, guys, best friends ever. Well, I guess all i needed to know was whether you think he's gonna get in at bat in the majors this year and you said no so no it's just it's just that's the weirdest like who would be like the guy that i'd be friends with he'd be like there's no way just friends with that guy i don't know uh i mean i don't know if someone who'd be as extreme difference from me as tim is but yeah i don't know of someone who'd be as extreme difference from me as Tim is I don't know

Kevin Hart? I could see you being friends with Kevin Hart I saw him here in Charlotte they had some strict rules with your phone if you took your phone out of your pocket they just threw you out just out of the venue bye bye he's got to monetize that content it was good They like you just phone out of your pocket. They threw you out. Just out the, out of the venue. Bye bye.

Yeah. Well, he's got to monetize that content. I know it was good. Um, so also real quick, Chappelle back on Netflix. Yes.

I haven't seen it yet. Good for Dave Chappelle. I like Dave. All right, guys, we got an hour on a non, the first, the first week outside of football,

really got an hour. So got to love it. We back on Thursday with Matt. We'll have a guest to line that up. We're going to do more guests this offseason, and we're going to have a lot of fun with it. So thanks for sticking with us. I'm Gabe.

I'm Jeff. I'm smarter than you. Get radio sign-off. Take care, everybody.