Geoff Schwartz Is Smarter Than You - Rodgers to PIT, Cincy Bungles Contracts, Betting Talk

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Geoff and Matt are back to discuss Aaron Rodgers signing with the Steelers, the latest mess in Cincinnati. Then, they'll talk offseason practice takes, share some stories about offseason bets, and, if time, discuss upholstery at various hospitality establishments.Listen to us on Cooler and subscribe to Pine sports using promo code "Geoff" for 50% off!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It is Friday, June 13th. Happy Friday the 13th. I'm Jeff Schwartz. That is Matt Ford. We are back. Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you. I think Matt, it's been like a month since you've been on, I think. Maybe because you were in Vegas, then we took a week off, but glad to have you back.

Before we get going here, I was asked about Los Angeles, because I was, I am from Los Angeles. My parents live in LA, but I live in Charlotte now. How are you doing? Did the armed forces come save you from your Santa Monica house during the uprising we saw last week for three square blocks of Los Angeles?

Yeah, we're good. Thank you for asking. You can ignore me at your own wits. Okay, buddy. I had to say something. I don't do it on social media. That's all I'm gonna say. But guys, Los Angeles is very large, okay?

What's so crazy to me is that- LA is fine. People just seem to really not like it. Like the national sentiment towards this city, which is one of the great cities in the world, just seems to be so down. Like, I feel like there's so many people rooting for it to be bad. And I just, I don't know if you feel that way, like whatever politics,

like why would you want that? It's because so it's interesting about that, Matt, you, Colin Coward actually talks about this often, if you listen to Colin of like, he always says like, guys, everyone's moving here still. Like, what are we doing? Nobody inside Los Angeles or in the surrounding areas feels the way the national media does about Los Angeles. And every time I go home, I feel safe.

I don't understand, I don't get it. I don't understand it. The weather is incredible. Yeah, it's expensive, but a lot of industry that we rely on in this country is in Los Angeles. California is what, the fourth largest economy in the world? It just seems silly to me how much people dislike California.

I was talking to a buddy, he's like, we're discussing the legitimacy of the National Guard being federalized. We won't talk about that here. But he made the comment like, no one would protest in a red state. And then like a day later, there's protests in Florida and Texas.

Like it's just that people just assume that those quote, quote, bad things only happen in California. And I don't know why. I don't know why, Matt, because everyone I know that moves to Los Angeles, you moved, gay moved, other people I know moved, they don't leave. And I know work is in LA, but you could do work in New York.

You can work remote many places. You don't have to be in studio every day to do your job. So I don't get it, man. I don't live there because it's expensive. It's not because I don't like being in Santa Monica. Santa Monica's incredible. Yeah, parts of downtown LA aren't great. I happened to scooter in the Super Bowl with the Rams. Santa Monica's incredible. Yeah, parts of downtown LA aren't great.

I happened to scooter in the Super Bowl with the Rams and the- I told you this story, right? Yeah. Like I happened to scooter through Skid Row, okay, by accident, it wasn't on purpose. I realized immediately I made a mistake and got out of Skid Row.

But even Skid Row, 11 p.m. at night on a scooter, like no one was attacking me. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's just, it's so silly. So I don't get it, man. But for some reason, people don't like Los Angeles in the national media sometimes.

But that doesn't always represent how everyone feels. Yeah, man. Like, I don't know. Just don't, don't be an asshole. Like there's a lot going on. There's a lot of people who are really scared right now about all kinds of things. Like, let's just, let's just be nice.

Let's just do that. Let's at least not be mean. Did your parents text you? Were your parents like, are you okay, buddy? Not actually, no. There's been a lot of like general, just like, oh my God, like what is going on? But not like, you know, my mom's been here enough

to know like, you know, my mom's been here enough to know, like, you know, what happens in downtown every day, hardly affects it. I mean, so many people in the city, wherever you live. But you know, we do, we have actually have a mutual friend coming to LA next week. And that person was very concerned about everything. And I was sort of like, no, like like, no, you're gonna be fine. But that's, you know, that's what he does. I'll guess mutual friend concerned off air.

I think I have an answer. But that's enough of our political talk. You did veto in our text message exchange Middle East relations. So we'll skip that as we move forward to the National Football League. I also, for those who are curious. Dancing through the raindrops over here.

Here we go. I am a live wager on the US Open. So we'll see how that goes. I haven't made any wagers during the show. I don't think I will actually. I'm doing one specific thing and wagering on like a hole that everyone's having trouble with today. So when you're bored and don't have as much work, Matt,

you wager on the US Open. So people who are curious about what glamorous life I lead that that is what it is. I'm proud of you buddy Speaking of people who are bored and needed something to do Aaron Rogers signed with the Steelers. It finally happens. It happens During the middle of a Twitter fight that had everyone's attention a few weeks ago And seemingly I don't know like towards the end of OTAs, which I guess sort of makes sense. He just didn't really want to be a part of that. Fine. The takes have really, have really diverged here. Like there's been a, there's been a fair amount on both sides of people being like,

you know, this actually kind of could work. Like his stats last year weren't bad. And then there's the other side of just like, hey, now you're introducing a really toxic person into, you know, a place that hasn't had good quarterback playing in a while. Where do you land with one of the most, I don't know, least surprising signings of the year?

Well, congratulations, he's newly married. So that's important to note. I guess that's why the holdup was as long as it was. Look, Matt, I've said this about the Steelers for so many years, and I think it applies here. What's the plan at quarterback? Because you have to think long-term at that position. And the Steelers only think short-term.

They think quick fix. They think, what can I get away with now that makes us feel good inside instead of having some uncomfortable conversations in the facility about how to get that future quarterback. So they haven't won a playoff game since 2016. And ironically enough, they beat the Chiefs in that game and they beat them by not scoring a touchdown.

They won 18-16. And after that game, the Chief said, you know what, we're trading for Patrick Mahomes. Right, that was the next draft. Because Alex Smith had done a good job, but couldn't get over that hurdle. They won one playoff game, I believe, under Alex Smith. We lost in 2013, I think it was 15,

they beat the Texans, they lost in 16. It was clear Alex Smith had sort of a ceiling, right? In 2017, obviously, they didn't win a playoff game either. It was sort of like the ceiling of what he can do. And I think in 2018, like they just didn't win playoff games, right? This is like not what they did under Alex Smith. And so it was 2017, it was the last year

because Mahomes started in 18, won in Super Bowl in 19. And they just were bold with it, right? And the Steelers, we're gonna be back in the same spot, Matt, on June 13th. Really, let's go backwards. We'll be in the spot April 13th next season, next year, 2026, saying, who are they drafting a quarterback?

What are they doing in quarterback? Because at the best, the best this works out, you might win a playoff game, possibly. Not only the division, we'll start in August, matter, our division previews, right? We're gonna start doing that. Every division winner we pick will be the best quarterback in that division.

Plain and simple, that's how divisions work. Lamar's better than Aaron Rodgers, and Joe Burrow is better than Aaron Rodgers. Now, obviously Joe Burrow needs a defense, and we'll talk about the Bengals in a few minutes. But the point that I continue to make with Pittsburgh is this is just one year fixes. The best this works out, you might win a playoff game.

The worst, you don't go 500 and it's a wasted season. Now you've wasted another year of TJ Watt. Cam Hayward's on his last legs, right? Like he's getting older. You've wasted years of young offensive linemen. You wasted a year of DK Metcalf. Like you just, it's a refusal to just acknowledge, Matt, that, hey man, we gotta either be bad or be bold.

And they don't do any of that. So to me, this does nothing for how I feel about Pittsburgh. You're gonna win nine, eight, nine, 10 games and they're gonna lose in the first round of playoffs or maybe this week went out on the road at a better team. If you go division winners, Chiefs, what, Bills, Ravens and Texans, right? Who is Pittsburgh going on the road to beat

in any of those playoff games? Nobody, nobody. So I just think it's another signing that just patches over the long-term problem they have, which is they haven't found a quarterback. And look, you wanna argue, well, they tried with Mason Rudolph. I don't know, he was the only quarterback

to have the first round in a quarterback year. It's not really trying. You know, like you took the worst guy in a year. Like they've got a good quarterback here, Matt. So I think we're gonna be back in the same spot. Rogers is gonna be, I don't know, fine, I guess. He's not bad. It's just, you have to bring,

everything that comes with him is part of the signing, right? Like is he still doing the McAfee stuff? Is he still doing media? Is he gonna jab with media and teammates and coaches? Things don't go well. So to me, those are all the concerns I have. But I think to me, it's just a net neutral in the end. Like they're not gonna be better or worse.

It's gonna be the team they've been, which is status quo. And honestly, for a team that's won or friends that's won six Super Bowls, not good enough. Yeah, that's right. I couldn't agree more. You look at what's crazy to me is, you know, they've been riding the same formula forever, which is we have a great coach,

we have a great defense, we have a really highly paid defense, and they're gonna carry us, and our offense just sort of needs to get us close and then our intangibles, everything else will sort of take care of it once we get deeper into the playoffs. That formula worked when Ben Roethlisberger was a rookie, when Aaron Rodgers wasn't even in the league.

That worked. That formula was good for the 2000s. It hasn't worked lately. And then what's so interesting to me is you look at their team, their contracts in the next year. So TJ Y, he's holding out. He's a free agent next year. They have Fitzpatrick for another year. Hayward's 36. He's only under contract for another year. And then the rest of their defense, there's a lot of old players. There's some nice young players, but even then, like Joey Porter, they're gonna have to extend next year.

And then on the offensive side, it's DK Metcalf, who has never really put together a season where he's been a top 10 receiver. And they have, you know, Friar Moose extended out till 2028. And that's kind of it. Like they don't have a lot of other options. They don't have a lot of depth. They don't have a lot of developmental players that they're gearing up for anything. So my honest take here is I think this is sort of, I think Tomlin had to have made peace with this by thinking that the fans and the coat, like the ownership, they don't, they don't, I don't think have an appreciation for him anymore. There's been this sort of like, maybe Mike Tomlin needs to go feeling that I think has

sort of gotten some buzz in the last couple of years. I think they're all just sort of saying like, Hey, either we're going to have like a miraculous season and Rogers becomes the guy he was now what four years ago, or we just kind of wipe this thing and just start over, because that's kind of where it feels like they are. Yeah, but the wiping, the thing that's like clean, like again, they just haven't really seem like they're, they want to do that.

Now, of course it just takes one year to do that, right? Like, like, I mean, one off season to do that, and maybe it's this off season, but man, I, I mean, one off season, do that, and maybe it's this off season, but they just seem to not really understand where they're at as a team and it takes a little fortitude to make that decision. Like, you know the Chiefs changed your entire franchise history, your history of the Chiefs by being bold.

And I'd rather your teams be bold than do nothing, Matt. And so I'm always gonna root for that. And I know it's a standard that's probably, you know, not fair to hold up to everyone, but that's the way I look at it. Yeah, I mean, I think there's sort of two models. It's been the, you know, go all in with your young quarterback and see how far it takes you. Right. Like that's my team's doing that. The Texans did that. The Patriots are trying to

do that. The Chiefs sort of did that even though they were already pretty good. And then there's this other thing that's sort of like the bucks 2020 strategy. Like we've got the team. Now we just need the quarterback. Like let's just put a quarterback in the microwave and just figure it out. And I get the, I get the attempts, but what I found kind of interesting was they, the Steelers said it's been reported that this was actually their third choice, right? Like they were interested in resigning fields potentially. They tried to get Matthew Stafford. That was their first choice. That never really seemed likely, but the fact that they've already kind of put that out there was kind of jarring to me. Like, they didn't maybe necessarily like go to the press conference and say that. But the fact that that

came out already to me means that I think Tomlin maybe is trying to create a little bit of space, or somebody in the Steelers organization is trying to create a little bit of space because or somebody in the Steelers organization is trying to create a little bit of space because look like this guy, this guy kills teams and coaches. Like he just does. I mean, he, it's what two of the last three functional seasons he's had, he's ended up, you know, causing a coach to get fired or maybe four seasons back with the floor. So I don't know, man, this, this feels, it feels very much like Mike Tomlin has invited something really chaotic into a very stable thing.

And I don't, I feel like he's probably at peace with like, hey man, if this doesn't work, there's going to be like 30 teams that are going to want to hire me. And probably one that has a quarterback. Yeah. I mean, my guess is, is, is he's hoping that, you know, that the Steelers franchise and sort of the Steelers away, right, is going to be able to overcome any sort of issues with

Rogers. Yeah. And if there's one team that can probably do it, it's probably the Steelers. But I just don't know what that ceiling is. And you mentioned Baltimore. We're going to talk about Cincy in a second. The tough road. And you know, if Aaron Rodgers, you know, I think people are looking back on his season

with a lot more fondness than like actually was warranted. Like he was not a top 10 quarterback last year. There's people who say like, well, you know, like I've heard this take, which is pretty interesting. Like, you know, you've had these quarterbacks come back from injury. And then a year later, like, you know, Tom Brady, and I think like 17 or 18 come, they come back and then, you know, there's so much better. And I just, I think that that's very wishful thinking for a guy

who's coming into age 42, right? Like he literally he was he was the MVP in 2021 2021 like think about how long ago that was in terms of literally everything in the entire world But in terms of football like that, I mean Jane Daniels was like a sophomore like that's how long ago that was You know, so he has so much, it's been so long since he's really been effective. So I don't know, man. I wish them all the luck in the world,

but I think they're gonna need it. I think teams get seduced by what happened with Tom Brady in Tampa Bay with the perfect storm. And also like Donald, right? Like one year of just like the best of a guy has in his career and it's gonna work out that way. So I think both of us, I don't know if I'm willing to bet the under eight

and a half, I feel like I've been killed on that many times now. But I feel probably that's probably what I would like to do. Yeah. Wonder what Mr. Playoffs is, That'd be a fun one to do. Um, we'll look at that. Why don't we talk a little bit about their division rivals, the Cincinnati Bengals who are in this incredibly weird moment

where they have this standoff with Trey Hendricks and the NFL sack leader last year, uh, who's wanted a contract now for two years. Like last year, it sounded like he was, you know, he played through a contract dispute, had a great year. Now he's still holding out, you know, for a contract for this coming year. But they also are having an issue with their first round pick, who in theory would be the succession plan for Hendrickson.

And the situation has gotten kind of weird. I wonder, have you been paying attention to like the specific dispute here? I have. All right, so this is what it seems to boil down to. So let's go back to 2011, all right? We had a new CBA in 2011. I was in the NFL at that time.

And if you recall, one of the things that made big news with that current collective bargaining, with that collective bargaining, not current now, but that one in 2011, was the rookie wage scale, right? Because rookies were getting like $70 million guaranteed in immediately being drafted. And that was obviously at that time, I think more than, like a starting quarterback was making,

you know, like Bradford was making more. So the NFLPA wanted to put in this rookie wage scale that did two things. One is it obviously capped the pay, right? It gave them a wage scale, capped the pay. And two, it gave basically uniform language to easily sign your contract. Because before the rookie wage scale,

you would have guys holding out into training camp, fighting over bonus guarantees, bonus structure, injury guarantees, injuries, but like all these little minute details that matter to us, but might not matter to the average fan, obviously. And you haggle back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And what the rookie wage scale did was say, look, here are uniform contracts, here's uniform money,

just sign the contract. And it was mostly for first round picks for The law of the language right which basically guaranteed First round picks all or most of their money. Okay, and what's funny is this year We saw I believe pick 33 and 34 the first two of the second round Got fully guaranteed contracts also Now that a lot of times is up to the team. And what's interesting is other leagues, Matt, by the way, in their CBA, doesn't say NBA contracts are fully guaranteed.

The teams and players have just agreed that that's how they're doing business, okay? So this new rookie wage scale and the format of contracts made it, it has been very easy for teams just to sign players, okay? You look at what happened last season, that the money is raised, the contract is what it is, this is what you did last year,

this is what we're doing this year, signed on line and most guys are signed by now. It's very simple. So what appears the payments are trying to do is they're trying to put language in that, that says if Stuart has an infraction, like a suspension, or maybe a drug test that leads to suspension, or there's contract detrimental to the team.

We can void all the rest of his guarantees, not just in that given year, but the whole contract, okay? Which was brand new language, the bank of the industry. The bank of the industry have not done this to previous draft picks. Now they claim this is language that other teams have put into contracts, their agents dispute that, okay? And it's quite simple, the Bengals are being assholes.

Like, they're just being assholes. You drafted this player to be your new defensive end, let them sign the contract everyone else signs, and move it along. It's that simple, Matt. They're hacking over a 1% chance something happens that you've already budgeted for. You've already budgeted for paying this player.

It's part of your cap negotiating. It's part of your cap in your building. You've already talked about, he costs this much money. This is, you budget him out for four years. It's so silly. It's just, it's a fight not worth having at all, Matt. And it's perfect for the Bengals because they've had an odd off season.

I think we agree on that, right? With the wide receivers that we, they might've paid a little too much to, but Trey Hendrickson, it just, it's so unnecessary, dude. It's so unnecessary. And I just, it doesn't make sense why they're being so hard on Stewart

unless something else comes out that we don't know about. But it seems very clear that they're trying to add language to this contract he's not had before. I said on Twitter that the rookie wage scale was supposed to stop this. People were like, rookie wage scale? Like, yeah, the language in the I said on Twitter that the rookie wage scales was supposed to stop as people were like, rookie wage scale? Like, yeah, the language in the wage scale is part of the rookie wage scale.

It's not just about money, it's about language and contracts that allows these guys to be signed immediately. Buddy, I was sent from Brown Pick. I didn't sign till the day, like the day before training camp. That's the way it used to be. You sign these future contracts that allow you to practice, like if you get hurt, you still get your contract essentially, right?

But there's a split, you get less money. I remember my agent was haggling over, he texted me and he said to me like, but I got you like two more. I was like, oh, $2,000 more. He goes, no, $200 more. Like, then like, you just, it's the way it used to be. Like you'd haggle over just like cents. And that's kind of silly in the grand scheme of things,

right, Matt? So they made everything uniform. So to me, it's just a blunder that Bengals have made that's really unnecessary. It's not necessary to do this. And I think they just made a mistake in the way they've handled this. $200, that's hilarious.

Yeah, it was great. There's two parts of this contract language that's very specific that I think are interesting. The first is you mentioned like conduct detrimental to the team, whatever, like what if he got suspended for the helmet to helmet hit? Like could that do it? Like I think that that's and that's one of those things where you're like, wait a second, that shouldn't void a contract. Like that's crazy. So the other thing that's interesting is that's not part of the language in Jamar Chase's contract. That's not part of the language in T Higgins contract.

And as a result, you know, reportedly I haven't read them, but when you, the story is that the bangles players are actually on Shemar Stewart's side, which is insane, like this is a rookie who's missing camp and I, you know, I watched this clip this week of Ben Johnson talking about Luther Burden, he's been injured and hasn't been able to get out there and play. And he was like, you, it seemed kind of unhinged. I don't know if you saw this clip, but basically like he's missing time. Like if you're in the training room, you're not getting better. Like, you know, this is a problem for the whole team.

Like we really want to get him back out there. Like that's with a guy who, you know, that's not his fault. He got injured with this thing. It's like the Bengals have this huge weakness on their defense. They just spent all this money on their offense. Now they're two potentially best defensive players who both are edge rushers are both missing this invaluable time. And it's putting this huge cloud on the team and it's possible for them to withstand this.

It's, you know, it's June 13th, maybe, you know, come September, this will all be a memory. But in general, this is not like how the story of like the team that won the Superbowl seems to start, you know? And I just think it's crazy that the rookie holding out is getting the support of the veterans on the team. I that I feel like I've never heard before. And well, because they, someone, I feel bad this has to be the guinea pig,

but like he's gonna have to be the guinea pig for this. Like it just sucks. Like, I don't know. I feel bad for him. He should be celebrating that he's a bangle. He should be out there playing. He should be out there practicing playing like, but that's this way these contracts are man, like it's,

and so I wish him the best of luck I do. Cause he's, it sucks. He's got to eat this for everyone else. It really does. But that sometimes obviously is life in the big leagues. And there's no lesson to be had here. It's just, I hope he ends up, you know, being able to basically get right,

like and get his money and move along. And also too, like, to be, I just, I don't know if you heard Stuart talk about the Bengals. He blasted the Bengals. This kid is 21. He's supposed to be the next superstar of your team. And he's in his locker blasting you guys. It's such a bad look, Matt.

It's such an unforced error. Just get the kid his contract and get him on the field. If you have regret about the deal, that's your fault as a team. That's your fault. Yeah, you shouldn't have picked him. It was a first round pick. It's not like you were stuck with this guy

with the third rounders or seventh rounder or whatever. This was your top choice. What a shame. I mean, I guess like, what is he, there's a lot of big holdouts this year. We already talked about TJ Watt. Obviously there's two on the Bengals. There's plenty more.

What is sort of happening now? Like what are they actually missing? Does it matter? And does it matter more for a rookie than TJ Watt or Terry McLaren or whoever? Yeah, so it matters a lot for young kids. And this is why, it's not the physical part of it, even though obviously getting in the physical part is good

because the speed of the game is a little different, but you're not in pad, so it's not really gonna feel the same as training camp. But it's about the playbook, Matt, because what happens is you install the playbook in the first five weeks of the off-season program. That's like meeting time and sort of walk through and on the field time a little bit.

And then when you get back to OTAs, which is the three weeks you're on the field, you'd normally start over again. You install it again from the beginning. So you reinstall everything again. And then by, and then at mandatory mini camp, you might do it a third time. You might reinstall the offense again for the third time.

Because look, it's basically the start of a new block. You just go back to the beginning. Because the first day of mandatory main camp is gonna be base runs, base passes. And second day will be third down and goal line and red zone. Like you reinstall everything, right, Matt? And then in training camp, you do it again for the fourth time.

So imagine all those opportunities you have mentally as a young player to get in the playbook. And also too, there's a part of this, I'm sure you deal with this and people do it at their jobs. Like when you have a trainee, you have to teach them how to practice, what the drills are, what station are we going to, how do you do this thing, how do you do that thing,

how do you work on your hands, How do you work on your hands? How do you work on your feet? What part of the field do you go to do this drill? How about special teams? Like all those things that I'm sure you would love to teach a young player, you can't do that now. Is that the end of their career?

No, of course not. We saw in the COVID year, rookies came in just fine if they're elite guys. But for some guys, Matt, you need that experience. You need that opportunity to, I know I couldn't have been as good as a rookie if it was on practice squad. If I just showed up,

like did nothing in the offseason program and just showed up, I wouldn't be as good. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I think too, it just sends a weird message, obviously. But yeah, I mean, look, I think that the teams who have their rookies out there are better served. One thing that I am kind of curious about, Kyle Shanahan said something interesting the other day about how differently practices at this time of year being reported.

I can pull it up now, but I found this to be quite interesting, especially because I don't know if you've seen this, but like a lot of people have been weighing in on Deebo Samuel. There was like one rep at practice that he was kind of jogging through, it looks like, and everyone's like making fun of him

for being like fat and slow. And it's just sort of like, sorry, it's June, like, what are we doing? But he said, Kyle Shanahan said they used to not report people stats every day and say who's ahead, who's back, whatever you can just practice. And when guys play to practice that way, they don't get better at anything, meaning like if they're, you know, worried about how many picks they threw in practice or whatever. But do you think that's a thing? do you think this is just like coach defending his guys?

So, well, the Debo thing, like isn't his thing like sometimes a little out of shape? Is that like some of the issue with him at times? Like not being able to catch the ball and do things like that? Nonetheless, so the stats I see often and do things like that, nonetheless. So the stats I see often are the quarterback stats like what Shajir Sanders is doing in camp and whatnot. What it doesn't take into consideration

is any of the context of any of it ever. First of all, the Sanders thing, and again, I've been very clear, I think Sanders will be the backup quarterback this season in Cleveland. But he's playing against the fours right now. Sanders should be seven of nine with four touchdowns. Like that's what he should be doing, okay?

So that's good. It's good numbers. Where he can't get sacked, right? Correct, and there's also the thing where I see, you know, people get worked up, oh, he threw an interception. Okay, so what? Like, I remember someone told me a story that their coach told them that day,

I want you to throw the ball down the field no matter what. No matter what. And that's the biggest point, right? Is that if you're a veteran player, you typically are working on something at practice. And no one knows what that is but you and your coach. So a quarterback might work an entire day on short throws no matter what,

or deep throws no matter what. Or we're throwing to this rookie the entire day. Or defensively we're doing this coverage the entire day and the offense knows it. Or vice versa, like there are times when, you know, as an offense alignment, like the defense has the pressure of the day. And by the fourth time they've run the fricking pressure,

you're just in your stance, like it's right here, it's coming, like we see the pressure. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's so, it's practices for a reason, right? You're practicing things that coaches want you to work on, but individually as an older player, you might be working on something. You also might have a day you ate too much the night before

and you feel like shit and you have a bad practice. You know, like those are things that happen when you're 30 years old, Matt. So I think it's kind of silly that we get so, and I understand that, you know, in this day and age, there's so much information and we're so thirsty for information now that, you know, sometimes I think that we just clean anything we can

to get something out there in the public and we just eat the information up. But that's what he means. That's what Shanahan means. Cause even like, I would imagine that Shanahan tells Brock Purdy, hey man, today we're doing this in practice. I want you to do this in practice today.

And like that's what he does in practice and that's his job in practice. So I agree with Shanahan. I always take any of those stats with a big grain of salt. It's not my favorite thing the media does about practice. But look, I get it. I understand the reason why these are reported though. I get why people report them.

Yeah, I mean, people are dying for the information and there's a thousand. I was the other day looking, I was just fed some YouTube video that was like some fan breaking down reps at OTAs for the commanders. And I was like, dude, you are literally just saying like, well, that's Zach Ertz, like nice catch.

And it's like, dude, you have no clue what you're talking about. And even the people who are paid to cover the team are out there, and they don't they don't know what's going on like you said like They're not worried about like Kyle Shannon's not worried about Brock pretty they just paid him You know to be a top ten paid quarterback in the whole NFL. They're not worried about whether he's good or not But I do find it interesting and it's one of those it's like the best problem You can ever have is like the fans are so desperate for information.

Maybe this, you know, Thunder Pacers finals isn't doing it for people. Like we're all looking at the practice tapes maybe a little more than we usually do this time of year. But I did find it interesting that, you know, even the coach started to notice. Oh man, I don't need the Thunder. I have a bonus bet on them.

I have also on the Pacers like plus 350. So I feel like I'm okay either way, but it'd be nice if the, if you'll the thunder would handle business. I am, I'm, I took a gambling on the NBA. I need to make, remind me this next year, no prop bets at least the first game. Okay. I like this.

I feel like now I'm in game four, I'm dialed in. I love my props for tonight. I was too low, game three. Okay, so if you're listening tonight, I like SG over six and a half assists. I wrote this up for Fox Sports, it should be up soon. So the Thunder in game one lost, and they only had 13 assists in game one

on like 36 made shots. It's just terrible. 13 assists on 37 made shots is awful. Game three they lost, okay? They had 16 assists on about the same made shots. Game two they won, I think it was 25 assists on 40 shots. And if you look at their team in the postseason, and specifically SGA, every game they've won,

he gets six or seven or eight or nine or 10 assists. Like the ball is being passed around more, they're shooting the ball better and they lost, like they lost game three, it's a desperate game tonight. I think SGA has a lot of assists tonight. You know, I need seven, of course. Miles Turner, over 14 and a half points, he had nine against the Thunder.

He was three of 11. His worst shooting game, Matt, since game two or three against the Bucks, he had six points. He was one for nine that game. He had 23 the next game. He gets his shots up. Again, I love the zigzag spot.

Like I took Caruso on a nine and a half points last game. Like I took Chet over rebounds, like the zigzag spot, right? Where you take a player's hot, you fade them. Your player's cold, you bet on them, right? Like that's not every player, right? That's more for role players. You just target role players.

And then Siakam under seven half rebounds, the number's too high. Been over seven rebounds only four times all postseason. And the Thunder have been better rebound in game two. He had 10 or 12 in game one. He's had 10, seven, and six & 6 those are my three wagers for tonight Matt. How do you feel about those? I like them. I think player props. They're not a market I usually play a lot in because it's full of that and it's also risky and it's they you know, it's pretty much just even money on either side, but

Yeah, I like I like your reading. Turner's had a nice series. He's had a, yeah, he just shot kind of terribly in the last game. Dude, I'll tell you what, I know you've been, did you wake up early to do Nick's podcast yesterday? I did. Yeah, I haven't listened to,

I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but NBA people are stunned about this series right now. Like it is, it's a stunning result because OKC is 68 wins I think it is, like a legitimately historically great team, like they're the best plus minus in NBA history. Like a legit team, and they're young and that always is an issue in the post season,

but they were minus 750. Like it's shocking, shocking, shocking so far, in my opinion, just, and the Pacers, it's one of these two were like, when you watch the Pacers play, you're sort of like, I don't know, I guess, I guess they're good. You know what I mean? Like OKC has moments you're like, oh yeah, championship team.

And with the Pacers you're like, oh, Matheran had 28? Okay, sure, sign me up for that. Now, to be fair, the Thunder could use a Matheran. Like they could use a bench guy to give him 28 in a night. And Matheran might have zero tonight, who knows? McConnell ate him up. I probably wanna fame McConnell tonight too, I think. But those are three wagers. I NBA people I imagine are just stunned right now Yeah, I mean couple thoughts on that

the first is like the the Pacers and Thunder both kind of remind me in some ways of like the football teams a little like the Pacers are one of those teams where They just kind of have like a 20 different ways they can win like Halberton could just go crazy in the last three minutes like they have you know a bunch of guys who can shoot Siakam has you know been the second best player on a championship team before they have these guys they have that is important Siakam has done that before that is important to note like they have a lot of ways in the Thunder just have this like structural like they just have

a thousand guys who can just all kind of do the same thing and they're all pretty good. And they kind of, like, they both feel kind of like they watched a lot of Eagles tape, where it's like, the Eagles can run the ball and kill you, they can throw the ball and kill you, they can run with the quarterback, they can just win a game on defense by blitzing you, they have a great secondary, you know, like they they kind of feel There's some commonalities there, but I do think that this is this is something that I haven't really seen a lot of yet This this happens actually with the NFL every year with like two random teams like this year for instance You you love the 49ers so does Vegas the Vegas has the 49ers that like what ten and a half is their win total and

Every logical part of your brain is just sort of like well Vegas has the 49ers at like what, 10 and a half is their win total, and every logical part of your brain is just sort of like, well that's crazy, like that can't possibly be. And you know, any team playing a seven game series in the finals should not be favored, should not be minus 750 ever. Like I just don't understand, like, there's some difference between how the gambling community sees this and it could just be like, you know, the amount of exposure they have to thunder futures versus the amount of Pacers futures, which are probably zero that they have, that they're probably trying to get some more Pacers money just to kind of

break even. But I just think that, um, there's like a split in, this is the only time I think a better can actually have an advantage is when you can like use your eyeballs and just say like, this seems crazy to me, like maybe there's an opportunity. That's when you, I think have a chance. And I don't know, I feel like every game I look at the number and I'm like,

I guess I need to bet the Pacers again. Yeah, like there'll be, OKC is I think 0 for 8 against the spread on the road in the post season. And they're six point favorites again tonight. Yep, yep, they are. I haven't bought off my futures yet for the Thunder. I mean, obviously, see this thing about having a little bit of a bankroll, Matt,

is like I could just bet Pacers' money line till I'm even essentially. You know what I mean? Like I could just take my profits and just make $0. Like if the Thunder go down three one, I could just bet the Pacers money line every game till I make my money essentially, right? Like just break even, I could do that if I wanted to.

But I don't want to, I'd rather just win the Thunder future. That would be nice to do. All right. Can I tell you something about this that's related? So I was in New York last week. Congratulations on the awards, by the way. Thank you. Thanks. We won an award, a synopsis award for a Kai Synats project we did in Tom

Rinaldi's show Sacred Acre. Everyone should check that one out. I had very little to do with either. So I was in New York and a friend of mine had one of those referral codes to a book that I hadn't previously bet with. He was like, you're here, like I get whatever, 50 bucks if you deposit, like, you know, do me a solid. And I was like, I don't know, I don't, you know, it's the finals. But like, you know, I was really busy.

I wasn't really even watching the games because I had so much to do in New York. And then I got to the hotel I was staying at for game, what was the one the Pacers won? It was game one, right? Yeah. Yeah, so I got to the hotel and it was, they were down by like 15 and I read my emails for 10 minutes and now they're down by like five.

And I look at the sports book app and I'm like, they're down by five, like what are they? They were probably like plus 180 or something, like maybe they were plus 500 down five points with like 10 minutes or eight minutes left in the game or something like that. And I was like, all right, I'm doing it. So I go and I make my deposit and I bet this, I bet the pacers to win five to one. Nice 50 bucks.

I bet 10 win the bet. And then I go, okay, I'm cashing this out. I can't cash it out. No, I can't. I did. I got my refund or whatever they call it for like what I actually put in. And then I'm like, great.

Now I have a $200 bonus bet that I have to burn before I leave or I'll lose it. And I forget about it for a few days until I'm literally taxing on the runway at JFK. And I'm like, oh my God, I have to bet this now. Like, what am I going to do? So I decided to take the Thunder at home for game two money. And they're like minus 700.

And then the French Open women's final is on. And it's the second set ends. And I'm like if I want to get any good odds on this I need to bet on I'm gonna bet on this so I go back and forth and I end up betting on Coco who ends up winning so I ended up turning 50 into like 400 because of this one idiotic moment where they're down by five points and the Thunder are still like minus 600 to win the game like I just don't understand like what is going on with the books where they're down by five points and the Thunder are still like minus 600 to win the game like I just don't understand like What is going on with the books where they're so?

They cannot think logically about this Thunder team like they they are viewed in this historical context They are not a historically great team. They're down to one of the fucking Pacers. Like what are we talking about? so obviously I I'm just cribbing this from Bill Simmons, but this very much feels like the Mavs Heat thing, right? Where the Heat were like this dominant team. Now the Heat had LeBron, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh, which the Thunder do not have. Correct.

Okay. I wish I could like blur out Chet Holmgren on my screen whenever he plays, I don't have to watch him play. I can't do it. The softness, I just can't. You get blocked like 15 times a game, it's insane. It's like the Angel Reese thing, where like how do you get blocked so much?

You're taller than everyone else. How's that possible? How would you get blocked by someone smaller than you? You're seven feet tall, hold the ball in the air. Yeah, Miles Turner is working him and Obie Toppin is working him, it's crazy. You know what's crazy, it's also crazy about the internet, it's like you can just like watch

like people shoot missiles at each other. Just open on the internet. There's no like, I don't know. It's crazy the internet. Just I was listening to social media for a second. It's just, I don't even know how to explain. The thing about it is Matt, it's not, I have to like eventually teach my kids

about social media, right? Like, it's like that's, I gotta teach them how to, what not to watch, what not to see, like what not to look at what to ignore Yeah, yeah, don't worry AI will tell them what all what they know Three years, so we're working on dude. My son graduated elementary school last week Congrats It's not that that that is like kind of crazy. It's very crazy I I he's he oh, good for him.

All right. Anything else, buddy? I don't know. Are you watching you? You watch a US US Open into the US Open? I don't really watch golf. I think that is that is a luxury of time. I do not presently have.

So I did go to Vegas if you want to talk about that There's only like eight guys over par. Are you one of those people that's like wants the course to win? No, I'm with you on that and it's done course to win. What are you rooting for the blackjack dealer to win? It's absurd All right. How was Las Vegas sir? I purposely do not text you all weekend. I'm in a conscious decision I didn't wanna like, bro, what's up? How's it going? I wanted to recap on here.

I did text you afterwards. I knew you were with your friends. I was like, I'm not gonna bother Matt today on this trip to Vegas. Question I have for you. So I will be in Vegas in July. I mean, I go every year or whatever for different a year, every year, whatever, for different things. I have found myself, the more I sports wage it, the less I play the tables.

Have you found that to be the case for yourself? I do find that they're relatively mutually exclusive, but the jackpot is when you can have the game on while you play blackjack. Like you're sitting there and you've got a TV in front of you and you have a bet going while you're blackjack. Like you're sitting there and you've got a TV in front of you and you have a bet going while you're betting.

Like that is just, and that is the best, but there actually is, I've found another layer to enjoyment in a casino. Okay, what is it? You're gonna think, you're gonna laugh. It's the massage. I became a massage blackjack guy on this trip. Oh, they give you massages while you're playing?

I'm not looking back. It's a total game changer. You sit there, you know, there's lots of different kinds of masseuses. I mean, they're all women, but like some talk, some don't. Some are like telling you like, hey, it's, you know, you should split your eights. Some of them are, you know, just don't even know what the, what the hell the game is. There's, there's no going back for me. Jeff.

It's when you have the game on the blackjack and the massage going. That's it. Can't be topped. Interesting. Um, I, uh, um, wow. I think they cost. So if you haven't been to Vegas in a while, yeah, I think they cost so if you Yeah, I did this in in the aria I think and and in the Cosmo because then once I unlocked this this was there was no going back

What do you think it costs? It's it's per minute. Oh um aria I was gonna say like 20 bucks for 20 minutes a dollar a minute. Yeah, it's Aria. I was gonna say like 20 bucks for 20 minutes, like a dollar a minute. Yeah, it's two dollars a minute. So you can get a 15 minute really nice back massage for $30.

Time out for that. I mean, it's incredible. In what world are you turning that down? I feel like people assume it's gonna be like $200. It's amazing. It's like the only cheap, like nice experience you can have in the whole city. It's incredible. You know what I wanna do?

Speaking of head massages, so, have you seen these head spas where they just do like an entire experience for the head? It's mostly for women. But there's a place in Charlotte. Like Face Jam or something? It's called just like a Japanese like head massage place. It's not what it's not that it's not that but like they just like

Do like rub your head with shampoos and your face with stuff is water thing that they I'd fall asleep Instantly, so I don't know if it's worth the money, but I would pay almost anything just have my face and head and massage So I don't know if it's worth the money, but I would pay almost anything, just have my face and head massaged. Yeah, dude. I think as I near my fourth decade, or fifth decade, I guess, the 40s. It'd be your fifth, yeah.

I'm starting to say, you know what? That extra $30 I spend on the massage, from shout out to Betsy from from the area incredible It was the highlight of the trip, you know, it's like late at night. You're you're you're tired You've you've had 45 Red Bull vodkas that day like you need to you need to unwind It was it's the best thing you got to incorporate it into your thing It is amazing like I might get a pedicure this afternoon after we're done with this. Love that for you. And just like the 45 minutes I'm sitting there,

live wage around the US Open, probably the best 45 minutes of my day. It's just like, it's a nice little treat, you know? A nice little treat to have. That's the best. Where do you stay? What's like, give me your latest like- Vegas?

Yeah. Oh, I, well, I'm gonna stay in Mandalay Bay for work when I go. That's wherealay Bay for work when I go. That's where I stayed for the Super Bowl too. But I, I like Old Town. Really? Meredith, Meredith went to EDC and she stayed in at Circa. Circa's great.

Circa's, she loved it. Circa and Old Town are different things. That's, you know. Well, it's the same. I mean, it's Old Town. It's just, it's, okay. So let, you know, last thing we're gonna add here.

So when I was, when I, I think I had left Action Network at the time. Maybe I was still with Action Network years ago, before COVID. It's like, and now we're gonna date ourselves all the time, unfortunately with like before COVID, you know? It sucks. So I, Action had a booth at the West Gate

for March Madness, Matt, okay? Yes. I forget if I was working at Action still or just got invited, but Black Jack was like, bro, you gotta come to Vegas. So I was like, well, where do I stay? It's late in the process. I decided to come very late.

So he got me a room at the California Nugget I believe Derek Stevens who owns circa also is California nugget it was $40 a night and it just had a bed a Chair like a desk chair. What kind of like a wooden desk wooden desk chair. And, and, uh, and then just golden nugget is what you're talking about, right? No, what? No. Or the California. There's this, there's a California casino or something. It was Cal. It was the California one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is even worse, which is even worse by the way. Yeah, no, it's across from the circus, I think. Yes.

Because we, okay, keep going. So yeah, the California, the California hotel was even worse than California Nugget. And yeah, this is where I stayed for the entire week. Look, I don't wanna upset these people. I think it was, no wait, it might've been, okay, I'll take it back.

I know what it was. I stayed at the Golden Gate Hotel, even worse. I'm gonna look up, Golden Gate Hotel. Because it was right, that's where it was. I walked across the street, as I said, I stayed on Main Street. I walked across the street. I stayed on Main Street. I walked across the street. They had a breakfast place in the hotel,

in the Plaza Hotel next door. So that's where it was. So there's a Golden Gate Hotel and Casino's where I stayed. Man, I gotta tell you, dude, there's a lot of good places to stay in Vegas. I'm not sure that that would be where I would stay. We looked out at the California. Sam and I lived at the Circo for like a week last year

and we looked out at the California and they had like a pool that literally looked, it's probably smaller than your pool, honestly, and definitely not as clean. And we would just like look out and be like, who's in that pool? Like what's going on in there? But I gotta say, I think there is a clear belt holder

on the strip right now. and it's Cosmo. Cosmo is just where it's at. It is just like the most fun, the dealers, every single Blackjack dealer we had there was like funny, energetic, like the same stuff was very involved. I like it. Everywhere we went.

Cosmo is nice. I went there in a couple years, I stayed there a year, years ago now in February. It snowed when we stayed there. Oh my God. Yeah, it was very nice. Yeah. It's the belt holder right now on the strip.

You know, if you want to do the wind, Mandalay is like kind of like its own thing. It's down at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite nice. There's a couple of places like that where you're like, yeah, this was good. Like nice place, like all buttoned up.

But I just am so impressed every time I go, I'm like Cosmo is the spot. We stayed at Aria, Aria is fun, but. I'm looking right now at like the hotels in on the Vegas strip. And I'm counting shows I've stayed at, like I probably stayed at, geez, I mean, all of them.

I've stayed at TI, MGM. I've stayed at Mandalay Bay, Venetian. Planet Hollywood used to be Aladdin, I've stayed there. I've stayed at the Wynn, the Palazzo, the Encore, the Cosmo, Resorts World. Wow. I stayed at the Orleans, which is not even on the strip. The Golden Nugget, the Circa.

I stayed, unfortunately, I've been to a lot of the hotels. It's not whether it's good or bad. And, you know, one day we'll go back. One day we'll go together, Jeff. One day we'll have a reason to go. we have to I mean we could do it for work You know, I know you guys are working on stuff all the time. You know We can make it happen. All right, Matt work We have been on for a while I have take my kid somewhere so I enjoyed this you text me was like

I don't we're gonna talk about today. How can we do a show we did our Yeah, hopefully someone out there is still listening. If they are, please leave a review. That'd be great for someone right now. I would very much appreciate that. Yeah. All right guys, we'll be back next week. We'll talk to you guys then.

Have a good weekend everyone. Thanks buddy, see ya. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,