George Kamel - I Confronted Graham Stephan and Jack Selby

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

💵 Check out the Net Worth Calculator!   On today’s episode, we’re hanging out with the guys of The Iced Coffee Hour, Graham Stephan and Jack Selby. We're talking crypto, credit scores, Jack���s blind date prospects and what they absolutely refuse to spend money on.   Next Steps: • 🎥 Watch my video Real Estate, Trump and the Fed | Millionaires in Cars Getting Coffee With Iced Coffee Hour! • 💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! • 📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan.   Connect With Our Sponsors: • Get up to 20% off Cozy Earth with code GEORGE. • Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. • Go to Boost Mobile to switch today!  • Go to FAIRWINDS Credit Union for an exclusive account bundle!   Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's been so long since I've seen people into house hacking lately because interest rates have gone up so much. It just doesn't make sense financially. It's harder right now. I sports bet. I think it's fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget. My friends do it, and I recommend, hey guys, just do it with your entertainment budget. I have no problem with any of that. The problem is when you start saying it's an investment. But these guys are out there.

These 23-year-olds, they all want to be entrepreneurs, they probably watch your channel. Do you think you have perpetuated the Manosphere lifestyle? I think if you're publicly promoting... one agenda, I would rather publicly promote your agenda because I think this goes with the assumption that people are smart enough and disciplined enough to capitalize off this. Last question. Money is I'm about to sit down with two guys who've made more money talking about money than most people actually working for money. And that's Graham Steffen and Jack Selby, or as I affectionately call them by their couple name, Grax Steffleby. You know them from Ice Coffee Hour and today I'm confronting

them on credit scores, crypto, and California dreams getting crushed. And who's bringing you this beautiful conversation? Our friends that delete me, a sponsor of this channel. Let's get to it. Graham, Jack, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you for having to do that. You guys look good. Retired. Yeah, you've been on the road or what? No, no, you did this so early in the morning. It's 9.30. It's really 7.30. It's 7.24 our time. We have to wake up early, get here before I usually ever wake up. Oh, I can't wait for you to have kids. You're screwed, man. That's going to be brutal. All right.

I'm going to be sleeping then. Well, you know what? It's not going to be a sleepy episode. I'm going to get the energy up here. Richest ice coffee hour guests you've interviewed. I'm guessing it's a billionaire. Yes, it would be Michael Saylor. Yep.

I would say Michael Sayler followed by Papa John. I mean, Grand Cardone could be in the argument. I'm just saying. Could me, though? Well, we don't know. It's not verified. I would say Ramsey is wealthy. We're wealthier than Cardone.

We don't know this. We don't. It's just pure speculation at this point. Sure. But Grant Cardone could go bankrupt tomorrow. Zero chance of that happening with Dave. So I think that gives Dave a point. That could give him a point.

He's got a point. All right. All right. I want to know this. You guys are your credit score guys. I famously don't have one. So I wanted to know kind of living vicariously through you. What is your credit score currently?

Can you pull up the app and find out? How does that work? It's 843. right now. Did you check this morning? Is it like you have your morning coffee? I check like once a week. Okay, it doesn't change. No, and I have an account with Experian and so it just updates. 843. And is the highest sort of like an 850? 850. I've never gotten to 850 before. Does that make you mad? Yes. Have you called Experian to say, hey, can you bump me seven points? Make me feel really good. I should have. What does that do for you at this stage of life other than like getting good insurance rates?

I could brag about it on a podcast. That's about it. That's about it right. Okay. Yeah, but you know what, 10 years ago, it would have given me such lower. Like, I don't quite need to borrow money the same way that I used to be able to. Did you ever really need to borrow money? Yes. Oh, yeah. When I'm buying a duplex and I'm putting 15% down, I'm able to get like a 3% mortgage rate fixed for 30 years. Could you have paid cash at that point?

No. You didn't have the money. This is before, this is when you were like just starting out. Mid-20s? I couldn't pay, you know. Got it. Because I was buying this place for like, let's say, $6 to $900,000 and putting money. into it. There's no way I had that amount of money. Yeah. But I had 150 I could put down. And that got

you started. That got me started. Sure. Yeah. Okay. How about you? Okay. So I actually didn't even have credit karma on my phone, so I had to download it real quick. But I have like 770, which is insane. It's absolutely insane. There's the thing that I don't understand about your credit score is that there is actually no like general theme that they follow. It's very arbitrary how they give you a credit score because when I first got my credit cards when I was 18, I had a score of 730, right out the gate, 730. And I have gone up 40 points since getting two mortgages. I have eight credit cards, who knows how many. I have only ever paid off.

I've never been late on payments. I didn't even finance a car. I paid cash for my car. I have a perfect credit in terms of like what you do. You are fiscally responsible. I am low utilization. I do everything exactly right. And it's gone up 30 points over 10 years.

So I'll tell you what's gone on with Jack is that he needs. It's more time. How do I need more time? It's been 10 years. Yeah, because you've opened up new accounts recently. Like the mortgage. The mortgage is considered a new account. Before the mortgage, I had 770.

My credit score does not change. It doesn't. When you have more than 10 plus years of creditors? Have you considered that the credit score really is only a measure of how well you've handled debt and not actually how well you're doing financially? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that.

All right. But I also will say, people with higher. credit scores probably are better with money. Like if you were to like, you know, do a plot chart generally, like if your credit score is 500, are you good with money? Well, usually if you say someone's bad with money, it means they are in a bunch of consumer debt, probably missing payments, paying interest. Yeah, yeah, like no savings. To have a good credit score, you have to pay your debts on time as agreed consistently. You miss one payment and your score drops by like 30 and 50 points. Or you pay off too much, too fast, close too many counts, too fast. That's a pretty

That'll be short term, but it'll eventually rebound. Yeah. If someone says, I need to build my credit, that usually does not suggest that they're in a good spot financially. So it sounds like you're a little bit, I wouldn't say stressed about the credit score, but you're a little miffed, that it's not hired than it is. I don't care. So at this point in life, are you guys getting more debt for anything?

What are you taking on? Well, I just took on a million dollar loan. Yeah, I just barred millions. For your primary mortgage? No, for business. Business. Yeah, yeah. Okay, this is the Ice Coffee Hour headquarters at this point?

Yeah. Okay. And then you have a primary mortgage as well. Yes. Okay. And how about you, Graham? Yeah, I'm going to be taken on some more debt at some point, but I'm not doing it with a mortgage. I'm doing what's called a box spread. So it's an options play where you could borrow money against stocks, and then you write it off as a capital loss. So it's like the step beyond a mortgage. So you have, let's say, a million dollars in stocks. Do you go to the bank and say, hey, I've got a million in stocks? You want to give me a loan? No, no. This is not a bank. This is not a bank. You do it through your brokerage and you're able to basically borrow money against your stocks, but it's counted as a capital loss.

Because if you buy a primary, you can't deduct the mortgage interest. So if I get a 5% interest rate, I can't deduct that. So when you think of what that's worth after tax, that's like me making 8% to be able to pay five. Couldn't you avoid all of that if you just paid cash? That would be dumb. Why? Because I could borrow right now like 3.54% after capital losses.

at 3.54. That's inflation. It's free money. In fact, I'm actually getting paid to borrow money. They're paying me to borrow money. Why wouldn't you do that? Just go all in. Put all the chips in if they're going to pay you money to do this. You could and people do. Why don't you then? Because I don't need to on that. But if I'm buying a primary, I'm not going to be selling out of stocks to do that. Okay. Would you say there is some risk in that, though? No. Zero risk. No, the only risk, I calculated this the other day, actually. If the S&P 500 falls 92%, I risk a capital call. But as long as the SMP 500... That's like Great Depression levels.

Yes. As long as it doesn't fall, 92%. I'm fine. It has been about 100 years since the Great Depression. I think we're due. Would you agree? Yeah, but even then it fell 89%. So I should be okay.

Well, let's talk about this. You famously left California, quote unquote. You had a bunch of real estate there. and you said, I am done. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the bureaucracy, the insanity. I'm selling off the properties. I'm not going to be your real estate guru anymore.

I'm just going to be a little stock boy. What happened? People have heard this story so often, I think. Not my audience. They don't. Trust me. They don't watch your content. Yeah.

I think we have a huge overlap. You don't think so? I think they know of you. But I don't know that they're watching all of your videos and watching all of my videos. It's simply too much. It's too much nerdery. I mean, you're already starting to look. like me. In fact, I have a jacket very similar to that.

This one. Do you get that? Do you like this? Yeah. It's, uh, it's, it's mine. Is it? Yeah. It's... Where's that from? No, it doesn't matter. That looks just like the jacket I had in my wardrobe out here. No. Did you grab that on the way in? No, so in terms of the properties though. Yeah, that looks great. I like that. That looks great. I like that. I'm sick and tired. It is, it's such a headache and so I'm prepping them now to sell. But even now, prepping to sell us its own headache because LA multi-family is taking a huge hit so investors are not buying it so my only chance selling these

for top dollar is to appeal to an owner user but to appeal to an owner user I have to go through I'm spending probably $70 to $80,000 this month. Fixing up fixing them up I'm redoing floors windows, paint

landscape, there's so much like stuff I'm doing to make it look nice. Did it already need that when you bought it and you just neglected it? No, it's just... So the tenants destroyed it. It's different... No, no, no, no. It's different when you're doing a rental versus an owner... An owner-user wants the place to be perfect, move-in-ready. If you're selling to an investor, they're going to come in, they're going to do their own things. Every investor's going to be

unique in terms of what they want to do to it. But my chance of selling this is hoping that someone wants to live in one of the units and rent out the others to cover their cost. Isn't that the cool thing to do right now? The house hack? Yeah. It's been so long... It's all I see on TikTok. It's been so long. I've seen people into house hacking lately because interest rates have gone up so much. It just doesn't make sense financially.

It's harder right now. And it's really only specific to certain locations. Like Vegas, we don't have duplexes and triplexes. All single family. Oh, interesting. L.A. is a lot of duplexes, triplexes. Do you think you could take a loss on some of these if they're hard to sell?

No, no, I'm not going to take a loss. Okay, they've appreciated enough that you're safe. I bought them in like 2016, 17. Are they paid off now? No. No, no. I got 30-year mortgages on them, like 3.3 something percent. 3.375 percent.

Are they just sitting right now or they have tenants still? One of them is completely empty, which means I could sell it for a premium, and then I have another one with a tenant. It's kind of awkward to do all the renovations while the tenant's living there, isn't it? No, I gave him an offer for a buyout, and we just couldn't come to an agreement on a price because I look at like, okay, what am I going to pay for a buyout versus what is the ROI of been selling it empty? And it was at a price where it just didn't make sense.

And the tenants had been there a long time. I really like these people a lot, too. And so I have a feeling, you know, they're just going to stay. Now you're emotionally invested. You're like, well, we're friends now. We are. Yeah, me and him and his family, we get along. He's one of the easiest tenants I've ever had.

How about this one? You interviewed Simon Squib. You were asked about good debt versus bad debt, and you said, quote, I have a lot of good debt, and good debt is something that makes you more money than you spend. Correct. Is that true? Yes.

What happens if YouTube changes the algorithm, ice coffee hour income gets cut in half? Stripping. That's what you would turn to. What I would, no, that's what he would turn to. I think that he... Oh, no, I was talking to Jack. Yeah, I mean, I think he was not talking about. He was our best ticket.

I actually disagree. I think Graham would attract a larger audience. You're more of a brand manager. You know, more behind the scenes guy. You saw him with the denim before this. I'm telling you, there was something there. Funny, that wasn't even my jacket. And Jack was the one that commented.

how feminine it looked. Is it feminine or denim? I think he was projecting because he's never felt comfortable in a denim jacket. Someone was taking footage back there. Show the footage right now. Don't tell me what to do. You asked Grant Cardone on Ice Coffee Hour what he would go into today if he wanted to get rich quick. His answer, I would become an AI consultant.

I'd make a million dollars in year one. The thing is, I... Yeah. You believe it. I believe if he was an AI consultant, he would make so much more than that. The thing is with Grant, he's naturally charismatic. he's a good salesperson. He could sell anything.

Even if it was a terrible product, he could sell it. I don't think AI consulting is a terrible product. No, no, no. AI consulting is, there's a market for that. It's a huge market for that. But this idea that like anybody, you know, he was kind of saying, hey, anybody,

if you just go be an AI consultant, you'll make a million dollars. I think anyone has the potential to learn and build a business around that. How many people are actually doing it? Because I've seen not just him, but other people are like, oh, just become a consultant and just 10x someone's business, and boom, you got a million bucks. How would you do it? Not by promising I'm going to 10x your business.

I could ask Grant Cardone right now. I would use my current skill set to find work that I could do that is scalable. If you want to call Grant Cardone. What are you going to say? I'm going to say, how exactly would you make a million dollars your first year being an AI consultant? Do you love it? Yeah, let's do it. Let's see if he picks up.

He's not picking up. He's probably blocked your number at this point. Grant Cardone woke me up with a call three weeks ago. What did he say? He was asking about YouTube strategy. He called me, I didn't answer, and he called me again an hour later, and it woke me up, and I answered. Well, did you tell him your rate to be a YouTube consultant? It's a million dollars a year.

All right, here we go. You don't work for free. He wouldn't either. Your call has been forward to us. Text him. Text him say, hey. I'm on a podcast right now. Yeah, a podcast.

We desperately want to know how you would make a million dollars as an AI consultant in year one. Let me just do this. All right, yeah. Hey Grant, I'm on a podcast right now, and they brought up you saying you would make a million dollars your first year being an AI consultant. And I thought it would be really interesting to call you and get exactly how you do that. Also, totally find an answer.

If you could just text me your response, how you would make a million dollars your first year doing that, that would be incredible content. Shout out. Also, love you so much. There we go. Now he's heard your voice. I was hoping to sneak that in. Oh, that was a voice memo.

Yeah, yeah. I thought it was a voice. voice to text. I take it back. Voice memo. I wanted him to think you ended the text with Love the Suck. Now it's you. No, it's me. Let's take a quick break to talk about some real financial drama, your overpriced phone bill. But you can avoid that drama with Boost Mobile, a sponsor of today's video. You'll pay just $25 a month forever on their unlimited plan. No contracts, no hidden fees, no nonsense. You bring your unlocked phone, keep your number, and enjoy unlimited wireless. Because who wants to limit their wireless? Nobody. So switching is simple.

Just go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey and then, you know, they'll take it from there. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Unlimited Plan. Talking money with Jack and Graham, mostly fun. Having your personal data being bought, sold, and traded, mostly not so fun. And that's why I use Delete Me, a sponsor of today's video. They go out and remove your personal info from hundreds of data broker sites, the ones that are selling your email, your phone number, your address, your family's information,

basically your entire digital life. And the best part, they do all the work for you. behind the scenes all year long and send you a report showing you what they removed, where, and how much time they've saved you. So start protecting yourself today, take control of your digital privacy, and get 20% off their annual plans by going to join deleteme.com slash George. Let's get back to the conversation, shall we? What, Grant Cardone texted back immediately, mind you, he said, yes, here's the exact thing that I would do. I would target small business owners, plumbers, contractors, HVAC, chiropractors, dentists, etc.

I would become an expert in one area, systems accounting, sales response, marketing, car dealers. I would install AI to resolve that problem. I would charge 6 to 8K a month, 10 clients, 8K a month, $1 million a year. There are 32 million small businesses in America. They can't afford to hire one person or two people or three people or four people. They're running their businesses. They have their problems or hands full with problems. I think he voiced to text in this.

Talking on AI, I see impossible for the small business center. I'm sorry he got his hands full. He can't hire one person at $6, $8,000. A month doesn't have the HR, doesn't have the reach, doesn't know where to start, doesn't want to learn it. I'm not going to lie to you. Got it. Yeah, that sounded like a string of consciousness right there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I get his point. You're going to go to these sort of like businesses that are not that sexy with people who do not want to understand AI, but see the value in it to offload and sort of lower their expenses and scale. And I'm going to be completely honest. I completely agree with them. Yeah.

I think that there is actually so much money to be made there. Why are you doing it? Because I'm doing the ice coffee hour, and I like pickleball. Yeah, but... I mean, a million bucks doing AI consulting, A.K. a month from going... The thing is, Jack could make $20,000 a month doing social media consulting. So he does this as basically a ministry for you.

Mm-hmm. He does this because you need it for survival. This is all you have in life, outside of a wife and a cat and an aquarium. Two cats. and a dog. Oh, wow. You got a lot going on.

It's a zoo. You tried to set Jack up on a blind date. Who responded to that? We got... How many hundreds of responses? But you haven't found love yet. No one of interest? Nobody.

In the pipeline currently? No. Does Macy have any single friends? No. We got a very similar group of friends. So everyone I know... A bunch of dudes is what I'm hearing. It's mostly finance dudes.

That's terrible. You guys also had the do... coin millionaire on your show. Do you guys still think that meme coins or even just mainstream crypto is anyone's path to wealth today? To a certain degree, I think Bitcoin Ethereum has potential. I would say probably more so Bitcoin, but meme coins are always going to be there and there are always going to be these spikes up and just pump and dumps, basically. Would you consider that essentially gambling at this stage? Yes. Oh yeah, for meme coins, yes. Absolutely. How much crypto So you guys currently have?

12% of your portfolio. I mean, that's seven figures. If you do the napkin math, yeah? That's the only math I do. Yeah. I'm a napkin guy. I'm probably like 10%. Wow.

Okay. You feel good about that? How's it been doing for you? I'm probably break-even. Okay. I'm up. Today Bitcoin's up 3%. Oh, is it?

So maybe I'm up. I don't really know. Well, you, I heard you talk about this a few years back that you sold your doge coin, you bought for a hundred bucks, sold it at 13,000. Yeah, around there. 13, 13.5. And then you bought a Rolex that you now call the Dogelex. Yes.

Do you still have it? Yes. Why aren't you wearing it? I honestly forgot to bring a watch. On the whole trip. On the whole trip. Yeah. I'm not a big watch guy, if I'm being honest.

What are you? Would you consider yourself a big what guy? Pickleball guy? Look at his socks. I like pickleball. Yeah. I mean, this is. Did you get a pickleball court installed on the new compound?

It's so expensive. How much is it? They're quoting me like 80 grand. No. But I also have to retain a wall. I have to do all this other work. If I want to build a pickleball cork because you have to level it. What about the driveway?

Just do it on the driveway. I'm not going to change concrete. That is perfectly fine as it. Who gets the design as is? Is this 50-50 partnership? No, I bought it. Oh, this is all you. Yeah.

So you can do whatever you want to the property. I can do whatever I want to the property. But I would just take the driveway in the side and just put a net there and just play right there. Have you thought about doing a GoFundMe? with the ice coffee hour audience and they can all come play pickleball. Am I the only one coming up with these ideas guys? That's a really good idea actually. I haven't even thought about that.

It could be like a membership. The point being, it's really expensive to build a pickleball court. I would love to. You need 80 people to give you $1,000 for exclusive access. They can schedule a time to come play with or without you. That actually would be a good, yeah. DM me on Instagram if you're interested. And if this works, I get 10%.

Deal. Okay. I had Dr. Arthur Brooks on my show. had him on? No, we want to. He's brilliant. He talked about this doom loop, which is like the cycle of addiction that keeps you stuck and miserable. Like you do the thing and then you feel terrible about the things you need more of the thing. And I want to talk about that as it relates to personal finances, especially as we see a lot of young men out there who are facing gambling addiction, sports betting, prediction markets. Now we got Pokemon cards and sports

cards. Would you bucket all of that into this sort of addictive cycle? No, Pokemon cards? Have you not seen people line up to just rip a pack up and see if there's something in it? Oh! Is that not? That's what I used to do when I was eight years old. I had so much fun doing that. And that eight-year-old is still living inside of you.

That degenerate gambler eight-year-old. Hoping to get the card. No, I don't think you could quite put Pokemon in the same category as like sports betting. Which one's dumber? Sports betting. So, to all the people out there who sports bet, saying, the Pokemon guy saying my thing is dumb? What's your retort?

They're wrong. You're saying, I see them both as the lottery. None of it is investing, right? And then if it's not investing, what is it? You could just call it your entertainment expense. Some of it, like, for example, if you sports bet, that's truly gambling, right? I sports bet. I think it's fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget.

My friends do it, and I recommend, hey, guys, just do it with your entertainment budget. I have no problem with any of that. The problem is when you start saying it's an investment. And Pokemon cards, I would say, is better than sports betting because you're buying something that doesn't necessarily, it's not consumable. It doesn't go away. Sports betting, you put $100, it goes down to zero. Pokemon cards, you spend $100 on Pokemon card. Maybe it depreciates 10%, 20%, and maybe it goes up.

So, like, you're still retaining an asset. How much Pokemon cards do you have right now? What's the total value? Dude, the value went up. My gosh, now it's probably like 35 grand of Pokemon. But I maybe spent eight. Why don't you loan Jack half the pickleball court money

by selling a Pokemon card? That could really... I'll do it for the box spread. Well, I was recently in Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive asking people, are you rich? And I talked to a bunch of 23-year-old guys whose sole goal in life was to make a million dollars a month,

drive Lamborghinis and live this sort of Manosphere lifestyle. Rodeo Drive is not rich. I will agree after being there. People, if the people walking Rodeo Drive are all tourists, they're really wealthy people do not shop at Rodeo Drive. They go to Century City Mall and they go into these little boutique shops there. Okay. Yeah. Rodeo Drive is just for marketing.

That's all it is. It's just a big billboard. Basically. But these guys are out there. These 23-year-olds, they all want to be entrepreneurs. They probably watch your channel. Do you think you have perpetuated the Manosphere lifestyle of I'm young? I want to be rich by the time I'm 25.

No. Gosh, I promote the most insignificant lifestyle out there of living in the half of a duplex and not buying coffee to save money. Well, you personally are frugal, tightwad, but the people you have on ice coffee hour, like the Justin Wallers, for example. That's what people aspire to. But then we also have a Bill Perkins right afterwards. Or a George Camel. Or a George Camel. Who's poor compared to most of your guests.

We show the entire world. If we have someone on the right, we follow it up with someone on the left. All right, we're going to wrap with a lightning round. This is just a fill in the blank. So I'm going to start with Graham. Then we'll go to Jack with his answer. The thing I refuse to spend money on is... Coffee.

This one was free today. Yeah, I know. All right, Jack, the thing I refuse to spend money on is... Expensive clothes. Expensive clothes. What defines expensive? For a shirt, let's say $100. For a jacket, a few hundred dollars.

That's the limit. Or is that like that's expensive to you, therefore I'm not going to do it. That is expensive to me. I may in some strange world, let's say I'm like in Italy with my family and I'm like, well, I can buy this random Italian sweater. I can only get here, okay, like yeah, like assign more budget to this, but I generally don't buy expense. I just shop everything Costco. Or you get it for free. Yeah.

I wish you could do hand-me-downs, but you guys are different sizes. That would have been nice. It could split a wardrobe. One thing that would surprise people about my last bank statement is... Neither of us probably look at our bank statements. I do. But you know what transactions have occurred in the last month? What would the thing be like, man, if someone saw this, they'd be like, Jack, what the heck was this about?

I could not tell you how much I have. $150 on protein? I could not tell you how much I have on my MX right now. I could not tell you. I would guess $3,000 is what my... Is the balance on the MX? You want to look? I'm not even looking.

Go for it. I feel dirty just logging into the Amex app. Okay, you get $1,800 on the business gold, $3.7. on the platinum. 400,000 membership rewards points. Lord only knows what that means. Okay. How do I look at like, oh, okay, business gold shows the transact.

Chipotle, coffee, f, flower child, that's a good spot. In and Out, more fuh, cleaners, more flower child. We're eating good. We're eating clean. I like that. Pest control. That ain't cheap. Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella, Coachella,

Coachella, Coachella, Coachella. Holy Coachella, Batman. I was buying, I went with other like YouTubers. Okay. And so I was buying a lot of. A good thousand bucks at Coachella. Yeah. Easy.

That's fun. All right. That is surprising. There's nothing on mine. I would say the only thing is maybe a lot of Amazon purchases. That's normal. Is that mostly for Macy or for you? I would say most of them probably for the warehouse.

Oh, for the biz. Yeah. Okay. That's all just like random. What was this? What was this? I do air quotes sometimes. Why do you say the business?

Yeah. I like to make it seem. business in air quotes. Yeah. Well, is it a business? We don't know. Is it a shell company? Oh, yeah, the business.

Is it a shell company? No, it's a real company. Everything's a ride off. If you're buying stuff for the warehouse, yes. Yes. Yeah, we bought these little things to boost a cabinet off of the floor. And we got one and a half inch little spacers. So that was like the last charge from Amazon.

That's a business expanse, right? When I went to Coachella, I went with people that source our brand deals and another ex-guest on the ice coffee out. Business trip. Right off. Yeah. So IRS, if you're watching, he's good. Yeah. He's good. I'm good. People will... All right, yeah, I'll put this one. People will win with money in 2026 if they...

Save. Save. That's simple. I would agree with that save. People win with money in 2026 if they save. Invest. Just to disagree. Okay, perfect. The biggest lie about success is... Why do you give me hard questions? It's impossible. I gave you soft tosses all.

day. We talked box spreads. I really I let you do what you wanted. Success today. What really grinds your gears when you see it online and someone's going, this is the way? I guess I don't like when people sell these like course systems. I mean, it's just, to me,

it seems a little like... So the biggest lie about success is that you're going to get it from a single course. Some dude's selling. Probably. Probably if I was to like say something. Okay. If you were to say something, which he didn't. What he would have said. Jack, the biggest lying about success is?

I would say that it's impossible. Because a lot of people just don't think that there's light at the end of the tunnel. They think that, like, all these people online, they're just all lying to me. They just want me to buy their stuff. It's like, some people do. Some people don't. But, like, success is absolutely possible for literally every single person. It's really not that complicated.

It's hard, but it's not complicated. Love it. Someone is definitely secretly broke if they... Usually it's when I see someone wearing, like, head-to-dode designer clothes. The first thing through my mind is they're broke. They're fake rich, trying to look like they are successful. Every really wealthy person I've seen you have no idea. They all are like very...

They look like Jack. Yeah. All of the successful people you've ever met look like Jack. White, tall, moderately handsome. It's not going that far. Non-designer logos. Non-designer logos. Okay.

How about you, Jack? Someone is definitely secretly broke if they... This is really... I honestly just look at the shoes. It's all about the shoe game. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'll look at the shoes. So what tells you someone secretly broke when you look at their shoes?

Well, I guess it's not really secretly, but like if their shoes are kind of battered. Oh. Really? I've never. Battered shoe equals bro. Yeah, I would, I mean, even though I will occasionally wear battered shoes, I just think that that's something that's a little bit less loud are the shoes that you're wearing. So like, if your shoes are in good shape, then you're probably like, and this is like, I can't say this in a dogmatic way. Like, it's not everyone that has battered shoes.

But, you know, I was at the blackjack table recently. I won $500. Congrats. Thank you very much. It was an investment. I only wagered $200. It was. And there was a gentleman next to me, and he was betting a lot of money.

I was like, wow, like, I wonder if this person, I looked down and his shoes were battered. And I thought, wow, like, I want this guy to win, you know? So you really feel for him. You have pity on him. I didn't, yeah, I wouldn't pity, but, yeah, I wanted him to win. I got a good answer. It's when they brag. Oh.

Always. Every person is like, oh. yeah, I did this and I did this. I'm like, now I don't believe any of it. Because they're really, like, successful, wealthy people, they never talk about it. Even when you ask, they tend to really like, oh, no, it's not that big of a deal.

Oh, no, this thing is fine. All right, last question. Money is freedom. Took your answer. Were you going to say freedom, too? Yeah. All right, disagree with them then. I could say expensive.

From the heart. I say simple. Money is simple. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, I mean, I'm just, the complicated justification, and if I leverage this and move it over here and write this off and do the spread here and do the option, that hurts my brain.

I just think I'm not smart enough, and I just value simplicity and peace over leverage or arbitrage. That's the truth. I agree with you, and I think if you're publicly promoting one agenda, I would rather publicly promote your agenda than publicly promote a box spread. because I think this goes with the assumption that people are smart enough and disciplined enough to capitalize off this. New Ramsey personality, Jack Selby, guys.

I will say, but big data would suggest that people aren't. People are very irresponsible, that people are less intelligent, less disciplined than that. And so what is a more productive thing to promote? Probably the thing that has a lower risk of failure, which would be George's.

However, if you're giving one-on-one advice or advice to a very specific community... If Graham's talking to a Graham, We're talking about spreads. But now some 23-year-old is Googling box spreads. But it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing to talk about online. It's just what's a better to like a very broad audience. Probably yours has a lower risk of failure.

I think that's a perfect ending. I win. You guys lose. Thanks for being here. Big thanks to Jack and Graham for paying us a visit today. If you enjoyed this episode, you're going to love this next one where Jack and Graham and I got out of the studio and hit the road for an episode of Millionaires and Cars getting coffee.

Click here to watch it next or use the link in the description. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.