George Kamel - Is This Really America's #1 Wealth Killer?

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app!  I thought I knew America’s number one wealth killer, but one mysterious message changed everything. Enjoy this financial twist on the Serial podcast as we look for the true wealth killer.  Connect With Our Sponsors:  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe.  💸 Learn more about opening a high-yield savings account with Laurel Road.  📱 Get $5 off Tello's Unlimited Plan and enjoy great nationwide coverage for only $20 at Tello.  Explore More From Ramsey Network:  🎙️ The Ramsey Show    🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour  💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show  💡 The Rachel Cruze Show  💼 The Ken Coleman Show  📈 EntreLeadership  Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I want you to think about a time when you discovered something that shocked you, something that rocked your world. Maybe it was a phone call saying your dog had died, or a TikTok revealing Muppets are, in fact, real. For me, it was a YouTube comment. From this American wealth killer on the Ramsey Network, this is serial numbers. A money mystery told all at once. I'm George Campbell. This is a global tellink prepaid call from an inmate at the Maryland Correctional Facility. On July 9th, I received a call from the Maryland Correctional Facility.

It was a wrong number. But while I had my phone out, I decided to check my YouTube comments. I wasn't looking for anything in particular, other than the approval of strangers, which I often do. And there it was, sandwiched between a comment complaining about inflation and another one asking how tall I am. Shocking, I know. It was a comment from a user called at Guys Here 13. It read, hey, George, nice video. But America's real number one wealth killer is second mortgages.

I have to say, this caught me off guard. because almost every personal finance YouTuber has a wealth killer video. They have titles like the number one wealth killer no one talks about, or number one middle class wealth killer, or the number one wealth killer that keeps you poor. You get the idea. Most of them agree that America's number one wealth killer is auto loans. When you look at the evidence, it seems pretty straightforward.

There are 107.8 million auto loans in the U.S. right now, and the total debt amount for those loans adds up to $1.58 trillion. That's trillion with a T. One in five Gen Zers say that an auto loan costs them over 20% of their after-tax income every month. And for Gen Z, these are pivotal wealth-building years. So yeah, that sounds like America's number one wealth killer. But here's this guy, claiming it's not in fact auto loans, but second mortgages. So it got me thinking, could it be we've got it wrong?

What if car loans aren't the real wealth killer? What if the real number one wealth killer? Something else entirely. I called my friend Rachel. We host a podcast together called Smart Money Happy Out. She's a personal finance expert, and she loves a good mystery. So I knew this would be right up her alley. Rachel, hi.

Hey, George. So you know I'm working on my big podcast. Oh. Yeah. I heard. You know how everyone agrees car loans are America's number one wealth killer? Sure, yeah. Well, someone suggested that maybe second mortgages are actually worse than car loans,

and I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this, figure out what the real number one wealth killer is. George, I, listen, I just don't have time. I'm trying to be on your little crime podcast. I'm sorry. How did you even get here? Okay. Thanks so much. Bye-bye. Thank you. So helpful. Okay, so Rachel wasn't going to be of much help. But luckily, I'm a bit of a personal finance junkie. So I already knew what a second mortgage was. It's a loan taken out on a home that already has an existing mortgage, one that's still being paid off. And it has a couple of aliases. Sometimes it's called a home equity loan. Sometimes it's called a home equity line of credit or a he lock. a term that conjures images of some kind of claymation space monster from the movie coneheads. People take out second mortgages to tap into their collateral, which really just means they borrow against the equity they've built up in their home.

They use the cash for renovations to pay off other debts, or who knows what else. But here's the thing. A second mortgage is also debt, so you have to pay it back. And interest rates for second mortgages are usually higher than rates for primary mortgages. So it can really put a strain on your income. Oh yeah, and since the second mortgage is secured by your home, If you don't pay it back, you'll lose your house. So yeah, they're pretty bad. But I still wasn't convinced second mortgages are the number one wealth killer.

And I kept thinking about that YouTube comment that sent me down this rabbit hole. Who was guys here 13? What information did he have that led him to believe this? I went back to his comment and clicked his name to check out his profile page. Nothing. No profile photo, no videos posted. The only thing there was a collection he had created of Graham Steffen videos. And then it hit me.

What's up, Graham? It's guys here. Graham, it's guys here. What's of Graham, it's guys here? Could it be? It's a long shot, sure, but could it be that just maybe, guys here 13 is Graham Stephan? Like a secret account he uses to comment on other people's videos anonymously. So I called Graham. He was in the middle of making ice coffee. He picked up on the first ring because we're tight like that. Graham, it's George. Hey, I'm sorry, who is this? It's George. Camel. We made a couple of videos together. You, you endorse my book. I've been to your house.

Oh, yeah, the Seinfeld Cars Rip Off. I remember that. Thank you. Yeah, that's me. I told him about the YouTube comment and how I'd speculated it could be him. Once I said it out loud, the whole thing felt a little silly. Yeah, that's me. Are you serious? You're at Guys Here 13? Burner account I use.

So you left that comment on my video on July 9th? I think so. He had a remarkably clear memory of what happened that day. Yeah, I remember that day. My fish died. It's really sad. Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry for your loss. No, it wasn't because the fish.

It was because Jack flushed it, and that flush cost money. Oh, my goodness. It's the most graham thing I've ever heard. Well, back to the matter at hand here. Do you really think second mortgages are America's number one wealth killer? I wouldn't say it's the number one wealth killer, but it is dangerous. It raises your overhead costs.

And I think it's very easy to get out of control because oftentimes a lot of lenders will give you a large line of credit. And it could be dangerous. if you don't know how to properly handle that. I personally, I wouldn't recommend it. He had a point. Personally, I don't even know that many people who have taken out a second mortgage.

I needed some data, some hard numbers, and I knew exactly who to ask. This episode is brought to you in part by TELO, a mobile service provider designed to be affordable, so you can use your money for what really matters to you. Tello offers the same high-speed nationwide coverage you get from one of the big three providers. They have plans as affordable as $5 a month,

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or by using the link in the description. That's tallow.com slash George. This episode is also brought to you by online bank Laurel Road. With their high-yield savings account, your money earns top-tier APY right now. That's a butt ton of APY, pardon my French. Other perks include no minimum balance requirements, FDIC insured deposits, and no monthly maintenance fees. Pretty great, I know. And thanks to their premium care team, you can talk to a real living human being if you need help.

So make your money work harder for you. Go to Laurelroad.com slash George or click the link in the description to get started. That's laurel road.com slash george. Okay, back to the show. Okay, so at this point, I'm realizing I don't even know that many people who have taken out a second mortgage, which led me to assume it's not very common. But I needed some data, some real numbers, and I knew exactly who to ask. Hey, Siri, how many homes in the U.S. have second mortgages?

Here's what I found. Read it to me. This page is not set up for me to read. Okay, so Siri wasn't going to be much help. So I Googled it instead. 5.76 million. That's how many homes in the U.S. have second mortgages. And that's a lot of people and a lot of homes. I mean, more people

have car payments than second mortgages. But noted, it's a lot of people taking on a lot of debt, and it's hard to build wealth when a huge chunk of your paycheck is going to debt payments. So yeah, this is clearly a wealth killer, but is it number one? And if second mortgages are so bad, wouldn't people realize this and just stop doing it? Well, here's the deal. Behavior's a language. So if you're taking out a second mortgage, that speaks volumes. That's Dr. John Deloney. He's a mental health expert. He's got a Ph.D. in counseling, and he's a national bestselling author.

And fun fact, he's a failed actor with an IMDB page featuring this show. He's also my best friend. We're not friends at all. So, John, are you saying there's a direct correlation between second mortgages and narcissists? God, no. That's not what I'm saying at all, even remotely close. Okay, so we weren't quite on the same page, but he got me thinking, if behavior is a language, what are you saying when you take out a second mortgage? But before I could ask, he had a question for me.

I feel like we're slowly going down a toilet drain. Do you have an ending for this? Of course I have an ending. We're going to come to an ending today. It's just, throughout this process, I'll have moments where I come to a conclusion in my mind, and then I find out a new piece of information, and I'm upended. information like this from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Apparently, there are these second mortgages that people thought were forgiven or satisfied long ago and they're reappearing, like they're back from the dead. And collectors are threatening to foreclose on their homes. They're calling them zombie mortgages. Scary.

I know. So where does this leave us? After all this searching, all this digging, I've come to realization. There's no point in trying to come up with a number one wealth killer, because you could come up with 100 wealth killers. And so what? Beraft of more facts, more data, even the soberest, most likely culprit, holds no more water than the most hairbrained. In the search for America's number one wealth killer, all speculation is equally speculative.

But here's what we do know. Second mortgages are debt, and more debt equals more risk. We also know a lot of people have them. While we don't know the full impact this has on those individual homes and families, what we do know is that those people are collectively paying a but ton of interest. Pardon my French. And that's money they could be using. to invest and build wealth.

But instead, these second mortgages are squeezing the middle class and artificially propping up a life they can't afford. So if you ask me, tapping into your home equity is not the move. If you need money for home improvements, vacations, cars, or education, you'd be much better off saving up until you can pay cash. I know it takes time, but it's better than being slowly crushed under the weight of crippling debt. Well, we may not know for sure what the number one wealth killer is,

But if this episode helps even one person avoid getting a second mortgage, it was all worth it. Serial Numbers is a production of this American wealth killer and the Ramsey Network. Special thanks to Graham Steffen, Rachel Cruz, Siri, and my best friend, Dr. John Deloney. I'm George Camel. Thanks for joining us. I'm not your best friend.