George Kamel - Millionaires In Cars Getting Coffee with Jack Selby

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

 Ride along as I talk with Jack Selby, producer and co-host of the Iced Coffee Hour podcast, about money mistakes, building wealth, and how the modern dating scene is treating him. Links: Order George Kamel’s new book, Breaking Free From Broke, and get more than $100 in FREE bonus items. EveryDollar budget deal: I love a good deal, and when you sign up using this link, I’ll hook you up with a 14-day free trial and $15 off your first year of the premium version of EveryDollar.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, guys? Today is a great day, because I get to talk with my friend Jack Selby. Now, I know what you're thinking. Wow, I can't believe George knows Jack Selby, the somewhat successful movie producer of none other than Bernie, a 2011 true-crime comedy about a small-town mortician's questionable friendship with a wealthy widow, and has a well-deserved 88% on the tomato meter. Or is it tomomitometer? Tomato-tomito-metter.

Turns out, I'm talking to the other, younger, more fiscally responsive. producer and co-host of Ice Coffee Hour, Jack Selby. Now, not only is Jack the most eligible bachelor in the Western Hemisphere, he's also earned a noteworthy net worth and reputation in financial edutainment. So hit that like and subscribe, and share this with your single and ready to mingle gal pals

and stick around for a rousing conversation with Jack. Jack Selby, welcome to millionaires in cars getting coffee. I feel honored to be here, man. This is exciting. I gotta know, you're very, You were very mysterious. What was your life like before Graham Steffen? Before Graham Stephan?

How, what was it like other than sad and unfulfilling? Because you were what? How old were you? I was, I mean, obviously zero until I was, I think, 19 or 20? So you were zero and then you were 19? Yes. Next step. Yeah, it was kind of just like that.

And you graduated high school? I did graduate high school. I went off to college. I worked in a restaurant as a bus boy for a couple of years. Okay. And that's when I started working with grandma. I was at community college, working at a restaurant. And my life was, I mean, I was happy with it.

It was fine. And you were watching his YouTube videos? I was watching his YouTube videos, yeah, and I was a huge fan boy. Stupid fan boy. And so I reached out because I wanted to somehow include myself and his business. And after several emails and a few months. So you were persistent and you're like, hey, here's what I'm going to bring to the table. Here's what did you kind of offer him?

I mean, he was like, okay, fine. Because he probably gets that all the time at that point. Of course. Yeah, the only thing that I think I, I really offered, that anyone really can offer, is like my entire life. Your life is not forfeit. It's like, look, Graham, you want me to go shovel Ramsey's poop. Ramsey is his cat.

It's not, like, we're not talking about Dave. Thank you. Yes. That was a good caveat. I was like, people need to know. I will do anything. He has a cat named Ramsey. Exactly.

And that was exactly my point. I was like, dude, I'm just a young, motivated person. But he respected that. You were willing to do whatever it took. Yeah, and of course, timing is involved in that as well. Like, I sent him several emails. So when he ended up needing the help, I was just kind of at the top of the inbox. Yeah.

That's amazing. So what were your financial habits before Graham? Clearly, if you're watching Graham's channel at a young age, you're like, hey, I want to build wealth. You know, I want to invest. Were you frugal at the time? Did you have any debt? What was your life? I wasn't frugal.

I actually really enjoyed spending money. The problem was I didn't have any money to spend. So I think that's what got me really interested in. You said you were making like 10 grand a year as a bus boy. No, I was making less than that. I was probably making five. five grand a year as a bus. Yeah, I mean, I was doing it like part-time on the side. I was a full-time student. Okay. But also like, I lived at my parents, you know, they provided health insurance, dental,

et cetera. Yeah. So you didn't have a lot of bills. No, I did not have a lot of bills. But I didn't have a lot of money. So it got me interested in money. And then, you know, that's why I started watching his channel. So what did you learn early on from Graham that you actually implemented you like, you know what? The first thing. I followed all of it. And the first thing that I did that was actionable from Graham Steffen's YouTube channel. Get a credit card. I am so sorry. I know.

I know. That's the first thing that I did because of him. That's the best advice you got. Well, I also opened up a Roth IRA. There we go. So I did that as well, but yes, I opened up a credit card.

Chase Freedom of Limited. But that's not the key to your success. No one's like, man, the key to really me doing this thing was I opened that credit card. Like, what were the steps you took? Because you had probably close to a $0 net worth at that point. Like, what were really good?

No, I had money. You had some money. For savings. For birthdays and stuff like that. Okay. So I had a little bit of money, but it was nothing substantial. So what would you, as you look at your net worth today, what are the biggest factors as you look back? Like, okay, this is really what was a stepping stone and that I got the house and that appreciated. And my investments did this.

Like, what are those pieces? I would say, honestly, it would be mostly just a strong income. Okay. What is increased to my income? We always say your income is your greatest wealth building tool. Right. And if you can utilize your income and live on less than you make and shovel that. into savings and investing, you'll build wealth pretty quick.

So investing has been good for me, but my investments, like, if you watch the channel, you know they haven't really gone up that much. I kind of got absolutely obliterated on some call options on Robin Hood. Okay, was that the biggest investing mistake you made as far as zero? Oh, yeah, 100,000 percent. Like, what did you put in the one you had nothing? I mean, at its peak, I was at like 70K and at its trough afterwards, four. Ouch.

And what did you put into it? 20. Okay, so when you put in 20, it got to 70, but did you get greedy? Like what cost you? Yeah, yeah, 100%. It was just greed. You're like, I'm going to hold on, I'm going to hold on, I'm going to hold on, and then it went to four. Everyone thinks that like all of the stereotypes, when they happen to them, they won't react in the stereotypical way, which is exactly what happened to me. I was like, you know what? I'm making all this money. I'm a genius. I know what I'm doing. Yeah, it happened to me. I never thought it would happen to me. It did, and I got cocky. I invested in some stuff I shouldn't have invested in. And then I got burned. Dang. So I feel like everyone kind of has to learn these things for themselves. Horror stories like I had listened to, other people share theirs, like they will deter you from doing stupid things. What about retirement?

You don't seem, I mean, are you maxing out a Roth IRA? So I, yeah, I did a Roth IRA and maxed it out for a few years. And then I did a mega backdoor Roth IRA and I contributed the full amount. And then after that, I was kind of like, I've contributed like what I would have done, I think, in like eight years if I didn't do the mega back door. So I'm just going to sit back and kind of let that grow. And also it's like... And you're 25. At 65, we're talking multiple, multiple millions sitting in that account.

Okay. From your work today. Okay. But a couple... Right? Yes. But why do I need that money when I'm that old? The thing is, I have no idea.

And humans are notoriously bad at predicting what will make them happy or unhappy in the future. So I feel like it's kind of a moot point to think that at some point in the future, I'm going to want this. Realistically, I have no idea where I'm going to be. As you started making more money, going from, you know, 10,000 to 50,000 to 100,000, and now you're making way more than that. But you said, really, after 100, like, my happiness did not increase. And studies have shown that, but you said it out loud as a guy who actually did it.

Where does that come from? I think that there are real diminishing returns on happiness past getting the point where all of your basic necessities, human necessities are met. Yeah. So, like, for example, that does include a little bit of money each month for entertainment and enjoyment, but it doesn't require that much, much, maybe a few hundred. Your shelter, you know, your food, if you want to go on dates, you don't want to have to feel restricted financially. Anything past that in excess would be great for those who enjoy the game of accumulation.

But I feel like that's a smaller percentage of people. So what's your game? Is it accumulation at this point? I don't know. I would say maybe just having a good family. But like I said, I'm so bad at predicting what's going to make me happy. I think having a loving family raising some kids would be awesome. And aside from that, like, I would love to, I would love to give.

I really do. I like the idea of getting somebody and, like, coaching them to, you know, be where they want to be financially, to have a relationship that they want to have, to be in a home that they're proud of. Something like that, maybe at some point in the future. I've never said this publicly, but that's always something I've kind of enjoyed. Well, I mean, you at a very young age have become very successful. You have the income, you have influence. And it feels like now the next thing is impact. You're like, okay, now I want to have more meaning in what I'm doing.

I want to be able to give back and pour into other things because you have the margin and options to do that with your time and with your money, which is beautiful. And we talked last time on Ice Coffee, or last time I was on, about the underpinning of faith that I have that has kind of steered my financial journey. And you were really curious about that, which I thought was really cool, asking really good questions about that. And I'm talking about how I feel like I'm a steward of the money that God has entrusted to me. The thing I'm noticing is that you have this peace of mind kind of. Like, I would love to have that financial, deep-rooted security that you have. You know, I just feel more financially peaceful knowing the faith background and reading the Bible and seeing the scripture and how it talks about money. There's over 2,300 scriptures that involve wealth and money, which is shocking to me.

Have your views on that changed or evolved as far as, like, the impact of faith on your finances? Are you still kind of searching there? I think, oddly enough, I grew up very atheist, maybe a little bit agnostic. But I'm very open to the idea of faith and religion. Much more so. And for no, like, it's weird because none of my immediate family is religious at all. My mom grew up Jewish. My father grew up Christian.

But it wasn't anything like that really made a huge impact on their lives. And I wasn't raised religious at all. But I am actually very open to it. That's really cool. So I took you to Starbucks because it is your birthday. And if you know me, you know that I love birthday freebies. Right. And you get.

Any drink, I guess now up to $10 for free on your birthday. Do you have the app? Yeah, I do have the app. All right, let's see if they let you do it. Hello. Hey, what can I get you? Well, it's my friend's birthday. He's in the car with me, and so he's going to get his free birthday drink.

All righty. What would he like? What would you like? What was that, the gram? Oh, okay. I have a drink order. It's called the Graham Extravaganza. Oh, I, okay.

Do you know what that is? It says Venty, shaking espresso, with vanilla sweet cream cold foam, okay, sub-white mocha for caramel drizzle, and add caramel crunch. That's an $8 drink. That's pretty good. That's not bad at all.

You want to add another shot, or is that too much caffeine for you? I do not need to know. Okay, that's perfect. And then I will do an iced americana at all. Anything else? That's it. All right, good rule, okay. All right.

I need to let the people know. It's not called the Graham extravaganza because of Graham Steffen. it's some TikToker that's like Graham Graham 8-8 that came up with it. No, you should say it's because of Graham. It's because we named this drink after Graham Stephan. Hello. He's very not happy to see me. I thought he was going to be happy to see me.

Yeah, it's my birthday, man. This is a huge deal. They're going to sing like we're at Chili's. Right? It's your happy birthday. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Look at that. This is. This is insane, dude. This is ridiculous. Okay, show the camera your drink. It is so extra. Take a peek, everybody. Look at that.

It actually looks like you. It's glistening. It's tall. It's glistening. It has hope. Ribbons of caramel. Oh, my God. This is one of the tastiest things I've had from Starbucks.

Probably the tastiest thing I've ever had from Starbucks. The Graham Extravaganza. You guys got to order this. Let it live on. So, we're obviously in my very old but wonderful Tesla. You just bought. bought a Tesla. That's true.

What did you get? I got a model Y. I've never shared this, but I have no problem sharing it. But yeah, you're not going to be ashamed of. Yeah. Cheers.

Cheers. To the birthday boy, to the Tesla Bros. Tesla Bros. No, we were calling ourselves chest hair boys. That, and I agree. It's what we were calling ourselves.

You have to let it fly. I take offense to it. I think it needs to be chest hair men. Chest hair men. It's a little contradictory. Chest hair boy. But I think boys. But I feel like boys is like,

you're my boy's. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. If you want to make logos and make some hoodies, I'm in. I'll wear it. You'd wear it? Yeah.

Okay. We can have some chest hair on the same logo. I like that, man. I don't make everyone uncomfortable. Can you admit how you paid for this Tesla? I paid cash. That's my boy. That's my chest hair boy.

I paid cash for the Tesla and I'm happy I did. And how upset was Graham when he found out? I didn't tell him. He was disappointed. I didn't tell a single person I bought this Tesla. I don't even know if he knew I bought it cash. I mean, I think he was surprised because he did. does see me as like a very, you know, numbers-oriented guy.

Yeah. But, no, I think it made sense for the peace of mind and rates being so high. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Well, I'm telling everyone it's because you've been watching too much Ramsey videos. The thing about car loans and credit cards and all of the non-mortgage debt can be so predatory. So predatory.

And I am not, I am not ignorant to that. Like, I'm very well aware. Well, you know, as I've, I've been working on this book that's coming out in January called Breaking Free from Broke, and I unpack systematically every part of the system. car loans, student loans, mortgages, investing traps, credit cards, credit scores. And it's amazing to me how everyone just took one step further. Let me get the credit card because I got to build credit. Now I'm worried about my credit score.

Well, let me get the car loan. And now I can't afford college. Let me get student loans. And so you get trapped in a cycle of car payments. You're trapped in this under this burden of student loan debt. You're continuously using the credit card. You're using it as an emergency fund. You get the mortgage that you really can't afford.

Now you're doing a he lock against the mortgage, and you just end up waking up one day with $100,000 in debt, wondering what the crap happened. Right. That's how I've seen this generation just kind of stumble into all this. They play on the psychology of a monthly payment. It's not so bad as paying all up front. Like, it just seems less, and they play on that psychology.

And as long as they have a low payment, it'll be fine. No, that's how they screw people over. They take advantage of their feeling brain, not their thinking brain, you know? I've just found having no debt, no house payment, even though I could arbitrage and make more on the savings account. I'm like, I'm just going to pay my mortgage off because I think I'll have a better life. And I have no regrets. For the average person, I will 100% undoubtedly say, yes, that is the way to go.

All right, I'm glad we agree on that. Well, speaking of mortgages, tell me about buying your dream home at 22. My dream home at 22. Yeah, I mean, I got access to a 2.874 rate. How could I say no to that when inflation is higher than that? That's impressive. So, I'm making money because I borrowed money. Yeah, I have a bunch of roommates, so I'm making some money there with rent.

So the thing is with the rate, I mean, I don't think I would be a smart person to... I think you'd be really smart to pay it off. 2.874. What's left on the mortgage? But I write off the interest on the mortgage. Oh, not this guy with the write-offs. You don't even know what a right-off is. Do you?

Most people who do it are like, I bought a $60,000 car I couldn't afford because of the right-off. No, I see 100% what you're saying. I agree with it for the average person, but I know who I am. I know where I'm disciplined and I know where I'm not disciplined. I know where I can make, you know, gutsy decisions and where I can't. Wouldn't you have a much higher net profit if it was a paid off property and you had all this rent coming in? Yes.

Have you done the math on that? Would I have that money? Profit? Yes. Your net profit would be higher. My monthly P&L would indeed be higher. Yes. And you could use that money to then invest.

Yeah, but the thing is, I am also technically making money arbitraging that amount that I... Oh. Every time someone says arbitrage, a puppy stop flagging. I am making more money arbitraging that for my 5%... What is it? Four or 5% interest I'm getting in CIT bank. You want me to pull out that money I'm getting 5% on and paying off the house? 100%.

Two problems. First problem is don't have that much money. Second problem is I'm losing money. Wait, you don't have that much money? What do you mean? Do I have 500 grand? Do you have enough in the bank to pay off the mortgage today? No.

Then you're not making the spread, my man. That's how it works. 500 in a savings account at 5%. or 500 against the mortgage, which is two point. It's not apples to apples. You don't have all the money sitting in savings. I do not have all of the money. I would have to sell some stock, yes.

Boo-ya. Boom. Roasted. I don't understand what the roast is here. Well, when people say, well, I'm going to, why would I pay this loan off when it's a low interest? I can make more on a savings account. Right.

That only, the math only, if we're going to argue about math, it only works if you have that exact amount of money sitting in that account. Okay, but I also have, I could pay it off if I sold stock. and let's say on average stocks are going up a certain percentage. Sell it. Sell it. To have the cash to pay off my mortgage in a CIT high-ield salesage. If you put me in Jack Selby's shoes today, I would sell the stocks, I would use the money, anything above my emergency. But you're saying that because your psychology would be affected in a different way than mine is. For me, it does not stress me out. In fact, I feel a sense of gratitude and I feel a sense of like responsibility of

like, I'm making the right financial move here for my own. The numbers do not lie. And if the numbers on a month-a-month basis, I am earning more than I am losing with this strategy rather than the other one. And I am nearly certain to continue. As long as it's working, as long as the stocks are going up. It's not a variable interest rate. You know what I mean? But you said the same thing. And then you got decimated on Robin Hood because you thought the stop was going to go up.

Let's assume you're right. Okay. Let's assume you're right. And I mess up and I lose a bunch of money for this. Do you think that me learning a lesson from that experience is more valuable than me losing? You don't think so. That's like saying, well, I want to get in a car wreck so I can learn from the experience when you could have just avoided the car. But it's not. Okay, let's assume that the car wreck doesn't alter your life forever.

I don't think it's worth learning a lesson when you know there could be major risk. When you know, this could end poorly. I am firmly convicted in this. So you guys have talked to a lot of Uber wealthy people. I mean, we're talking Deca centi millionaires. Yeah. What is a common theme you've seen that you're like, hey, if I was going to give someone advice, that spark notes of all these conversations we've had on ice coffee hour.

Here's the thread. Okay, so there's a difference. A lot of the people that are under, I would say, like the 15 million, maybe under 30 million, 40 million net worth area are kind of, they're usually a person out of scarcity. That's what I've noticed. They have a very scarce mindset where like, hey, I'm going to lose everything. This will not last.

And then once you get into like those real upper echelons of like like the 100, million plus. Yeah, that hurts my brain. It hurts mine as well. I mean, I could never fathom. My brain hurts too. But they're generally people of abundance. For example, Dave Ramsey, he has an abundance mindset. So I feel like, yeah, Hormozie, he was the same. I don't know. I've just noticed those are kind of the trends. Like after a certain point, you become someone of abundance. That's what I would say I've recognized. That's good. I like that. Abundance mentality. So the people want to know about your love life. This is a recurring theme I'm seeing. Is it time to start the Bachelor reality show with you and Caleb Hammer and

can I host it? Here's the thing. I personally, I have no shame. A hundred thousand percent I would do such a thing. However, there have been so many times where I've talked about a date, where I've done something online, talked about like my relationships and stuff like that. And then I get a notification on my phone and it's like some girl that I had gone on a date with. She's like, why are you talking about our date that we did in New York? You know what I mean? I'm like, The laundry here. Yeah. And she could be seeing this right now, and she could be like, why are you talking about when I called you to ask why you're talking about it?

Like, bro, that happens. But I would have respect for her because she's watching the George Camel YouTube channel. And for that, I would say, green flag. It happens more than you think it would. Wow. And while I don't care, you know, maybe some of these women would. I'm not really sure. I would consider doing it.

Yeah, I don't know. The current dating landscape frightens me. So best of luck to you. Dude, you would nail it. You're a guru with the words. A guru with the words. You really aren't, and you know it, too. That's why you talk for a living.

My personality is what helped me land my wife with me. It's not my looks. Don't you dare say that. Well, you're a handsome man. Thank you. You see why I love this guy. Always a good time with Jack Selby. And I hope one thing you get from Jack's story is that no one becomes great on their own.

Each one of us needs someone we can learn from and lean on for support no matter how old you are or how successful you've become. Because the moment you stop learning from others is the exact same moment you stop growing. And if you want to make your dreams a reality, you need to learn from people who are already living that dream. And you can tell, Jack surrounds himself by people who are successful, people who are wealthy, and by people who want to grow. So get out there, get off your phone, meet the right people, develop genuine relationships

that can end up changing the trajectory of your future. Huge thanks to Jack for hanging out today. Let me know in the comments who else you want to see in this Millionaires and Cars Getting Coffee series. It would be kind of epic if we could finally get Seinfeld. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.